Author Topic: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!  (Read 136516 times)

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Offline MishaK

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2007, 05:57:45 AM »


The old Solti-coaster, I see...

We keep a few cases of Vollrads in the cellar too; it's one of our favorite German estates. Didn't you have your wedding reception at Vollrads, O?

Indeed, we did. I still have several bottles.  ;D

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2007, 06:10:23 AM »
The old Solti-coaster, I see...

Indeed...and that's all it's good for according to some here ;D

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2007, 08:28:08 AM »
Ever since reading that I've been thnking about NZ Sauvignon. NZ bottles are easy to find here but mainly the cheaper examples. Nice but hardly compares to the local Riesling quality-wise. I'd never had a bottle demonstrating the greatness of NZ Sauvignon. ....

he wine came and the bottle had a screwcap (no longer a sure sign of cheap wine). Still, Mrs. Rock joked to the waiter that at least we could be sure the wine wasn't corked. I resisted sniffing the cap ;D  When I put my nose in the glass and took a deep whiff, I almost fell out of my chair. My god, it was tremendous; a huge explosion of tropical fruits, acid (I swear I can smell acid) and that smell peculiar to Sauvignon that I can only descirbe as "green". I pronounced the wine more than sound and told Mrs. Rock she was going to be happy!

Sarge - great story & pics - glad that were finally able to obtain a decent NZ Sauvignon Blanc - many of those impressions are the ones I have when 'sniffing & tasting' these wines - the biting acid, crispness, and variety of fruit flavors (I'm a 'green apple' fan, so that strong malic acid presence really helps!).

The 2006 vintage is the year that I'm collecting at the moment - probably have had 6-8 different ones so far, the Nobilo Icon & Kim Crawford are sitting in my cellar now; agree about the aging - for those wanting to try these wines get the 'youngest' vintage and don't keep much more than 6-10 months (and remember, harvest time in the southern hemisphere is in the spring for us above the equator, so these wines often are released in the fall of the same year!).  The latest issue of the Wine Spectator just had an article on the NZ wines w/ plenty of recommendations, both Sauvignon Blanc & Pinot Noir, the latter showing tremendous progress & being released @ great prices (unfortunately, few are comin' my way @ the moment).

Finally, I absolutely love 'screw caps'!  NZ has a special 'screw cap' organization (forget the official name) which is pushing to get the whole country to switch over (which I believe will happen); one of the Bordeaux 'Grand Crus' just bottled half of a wine w/ corks, and the other half w/ screw caps (in the same issue of Wine Spectator)!  :D

Offline MishaK

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #43 on: April 16, 2007, 08:45:29 AM »
I don't either. When you're brought up with the sense that wine is simply part of the meal, there is less likelihood you'll overindulge or treat alcohol as a drug. And too, anytime you forbid something to a human being, they're more likely to rebel, sneak off and abuse it. When we have guests from the States, we take them to wine fests; the teens appreciate being treated as adults, i.e., they can have a glass of wine if they want. Very often, they choose not to!... or choose to have just one glass. I've never seen anyone drink too much.

That's exactly how I was brought up. We almost always had wine with a meal and I was given sips and later glasses since I was something like 12 or 13. I have never gone binge drinking and there is not a single night where I didn't remember what I did the next morning.


Offline SonicMan46

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2007, 04:39:32 PM »
Well, for those who can obtain these wines - Zinfandel is a recommendation from California - red wine grape (please, don't even bring up 'White Zinfandel' to me even if you like it!); this is a grape 'unique' to the Golden State dating back into the 19th century.  Typically, the red version is dark, heady, and high in alcohol (in fact, a detriment IMO - I wish these wines were made 1-2% lower in alcohol levels). 

This grape was initially felt to be an Italian import (i.e. Primitivo from southern Italy), but DNA 'finger printing' has shown that the grape crossed the Adriatic Sea from Croatia, its original home, so basically a Balkan grape.  But the 'bottom line' is that Zinfandel can make a wonderful red wine w/ 'berry' flavors that will age well for a few years or more (often evolving into a bottle of wine that is similar to aged Cabernets or blends).  Give them a try - the prices really 'trump' the Cabs & Merlots!

Tonight w/ a Italian pasta dish made by the LOML, I had an 'aged' Seghesio Zinfandel 2002 (been in the cellar just a couple of years), so now only 5 yrs old & tasting fine - like Cabernets or Merlots (or blends), these wines may be excellent on release, or might improve w/ a few years of bottle aging - the point is give them a try, if available, and a couple of years might 'mellow' the the vintage - enjoy -  :D


Offline SonicMan46

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2007, 04:10:05 PM »
About completed the book below - Judgment of Paris: California vs. France and the Historic 1976 Paris Tasting That Revolutionized Wine by George M. Taber (the only 'reporter' present at the tasting, working for 'Time Magazine').  This is an excellent book of not only the important California characters (esp. Mike Grgich & Warren Winiarski), the event itself, and its aftermath, but an exciting portrait of the re-birth of Napa Vly wines, esp. in the 1960-70s.  Grgich was the wine maker at Ch. Montelena, which had a Chardonnay, while Winiarski of Stag's Leap had a '73 Cabernet - both of these wines were the WINNERS at this blind tasting in Paris w/ completely French judges - nice summary here; also, click on the image for reviews of the book from the Amazonians - excellent read, if interested in this subject -  :D



Offline toledobass

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2007, 03:55:29 AM »
Well, for those who can obtain these wines - Zinfandel is a recommendation from California - red wine grape (please, don't even bring up 'White Zinfandel' to me even if you like it!); this is a grape 'unique' to the Golden State dating back into the 19th century.  Typically, the red version is dark, heady, and high in alcohol (in fact, a detriment IMO - I wish these wines were made 1-2% lower in alcohol levels). 

This grape was initially felt to be an Italian import (i.e. Primitivo from southern Italy), but DNA 'finger printing' has shown that the grape crossed the Adriatic Sea from Croatia, its original home, so basically a Balkan grape.  But the 'bottom line' is that Zinfandel can make a wonderful red wine w/ 'berry' flavors that will age well for a few years or more (often evolving into a bottle of wine that is similar to aged Cabernets or blends).  Give them a try - the prices really 'trump' the Cabs & Merlots!

Tonight w/ a Italian pasta dish made by the LOML, I had an 'aged' Seghesio Zinfandel 2002 (been in the cellar just a couple of years), so now only 5 yrs old & tasting fine - like Cabernets or Merlots (or blends), these wines may be excellent on release, or might improve w/ a few years of bottle aging - the point is give them a try, if available, and a couple of years might 'mellow' the the vintage - enjoy -  :D



Always loved the Ridge and Ravenswood.   

Allan

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2007, 04:05:33 AM »
Finally, I absolutely love 'screw caps'!  NZ has a special 'screw cap' organization (forget the official name) which is pushing to get the whole country to switch over (which I believe will happen); one of the Bordeaux 'Grand Crus' just bottled half of a wine w/ corks, and the other half w/ screw caps (in the same issue of Wine Spectator)!  :D

Screw caps are becoming more common in Germany too. There is a significant financial loss with returned wine that is corked and the vintners are beginning to rebel. Mrs. Rock is employed by a corporation that makes them. More interestingly, they also market a recent invention called the Vino-Loc. O mentioned drinking a 2003 Schloss Vollrads. That was the year Vollrads began to use the Vino-Loc. Like that Bordeaux estate you mention, Vollrads bottled some of the vintage with corks and some with the new enclosure, giving their customers a choice. I like the Loc (and screw caps) because I can store the wine upright.

The Vino-Loc is made of tough, shatterproof glass and has a small plastic seal that renders it airtight. It's really easy to get on and off. It looks like this when it's in the bottle:



and here it is out of the bottle:




On the label, the term "erstes Gewächs" means premier cru or first growth. It's a new quality level, not sanctioned yet by the government's wine bureaucracy. Many of the top vintners, unhappy with the way German wine is produced, labeled and marketed, banded together and took it upon themselves to raise standards and denote certain vineyards as the best. A wine labeled erstes Gewächs has to be a Riesling. It has to meet stringent ripeness and yield levels, has to be vinified dry and pass a peer taste test. Ironically, and idiotically, the German wine laws won't allow the words on the label along with the QmP designation. Instead the wine can only be called a mere Qualitätswein, one of the lower categories. (Same with the word barrique. If that's on the label, it has to be marketed as a mere table wine even if the wine really is a dry Auslese!)

The label is designed to simplify things, especially for foreign consumers. Instead of the unwieldy term Niersteiner Brudersberg Riesling Spätlese trocken, the label says simply, Brudersberg (the vineyard name). One can assume it's a dry Riesling Spätlese from Nierstein. The hope is that eventually the vineyards will become well-known and synonymous in the consumer's mind with high quality the way the Burgundy vineyards are.

Sarge
« Last Edit: April 21, 2007, 10:05:13 AM by Sergeant Rock »
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2007, 06:49:36 AM »
Always loved the Ridge and Ravenswood.   


Allan - agree w/ you about Ridge & Ravenswood; I've visited both of these wineries over the years, and have had their products, esp. the Ridge Zins in my cellar (have some NOW!) - two recent '05 purchases are the Seghesio & the Ridge Ponzo Vyds. ('04 shown below); Paul Draper of Ridge is just one of the California 'Icons', and his contributions to creating glorious Zinfandels is unbeatable - CLICK on the image for more on the winery & the tremendous variety of wines he makes there; unfortunately, the prices for these regional/vineyard Zins from Ridge have just escalated tremendously, so 'less expensive' ones like the Seghesio might be a good option -  :D

 

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2007, 06:56:57 AM »
Screw caps are becoming more common in Germany too. There is a significant financial loss with returned wine that is corked and the vintners are beginning to rebel. Mrs. Rock is employed by a corporation that makes them. More interestingly, they also market a recent invention called the Vino-Loc. O mentioned drinking a 2003 Schloss Vollrads. That was the year Vollrads began to use the Vino-Loc. Like that Bordeaux estate you mention, Vollrads bottled some of the vintage with corks and some with the new enclosure, giving their customers a choice. I like the Loc (and screw caps) because I can store the wine upright......

On the label, the term "erstes Gewächs" means premier cru or first growth. It's a new quality level, not sanctioned yet by the government's wine bureaucracy. Many of the top vintners, unhappy with the way German wine is produced, labeled and marketed, banded together and took it upon themselves to raise standards and denote certain vineyards as the best. A wine labeled erstes Gewächs has to be a Riesling. It has to meet stringent ripeness and yield levels, has to be vinified dry and pass a peer taste test. Ironically, and idiotically, the German wine laws won't allow the words on the label along with the QmP designation. Instead the wine can only be called a mere Qualitätswein, one of the lower categories. (Same with the word barrique. If that's on the label, it has to be marketed as a mere table wine even if the wine really is a dry Auslese!)

The label is designed to simplify things, especially for foreign consumers. Instead of the unwieldy term Niersteiner Brudersberg Riesling Spätlese trocken, the label merely says Brudersberg (the vineyard name). One can assume it's a dry Riesling Spätlese from Nierstein. The hope is that eventually the vineyards will become well-known and synonymous in the consumer's mind with high quality the way the Burgundy vineyards are.

Sarge - I've read about the Vino-Loc, but have not seen one 'in action' yet - guess I'll have to donate all of my corkscrews to a museum in the near future!  ;D

Thanks for the 'update' on German wine labelling, always a confusing issue - in a way like the 'Super Tuscan' wines being simply labelled as 'table wine' in Italy (another country w/ a difficult to understand system) - Dave  BTW - I'd love to sample that Riesling!  :)

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2007, 04:40:25 PM »
Well, I was @ Costco the other day w/ the LOML - don't go that often but we do spend a LOT of money on those infrequent trips - picked up a case of wine w/ some 'reds' for the cellar - added an Australian Shiraz, the d'Arenberg Shiraz 'The Footbolt' 2004 - did not have any ratings to make a choice but the label & back description looked & sounded great, about $16/bottle - tasting over a few nights, a good choice (will probably age for 1-2 yrs in the cellar and expect some benefit); also, Mondavi 2004 Cabernet (standard Napa wine - these Napa Cabs have become too expensive for me, so looking for bargins) - this wine was rated a */87 & 88 (in two of my periodicals) - not great, but good - the price @ Costco was only $19 a bottle (listed @ $27 in one of the periodicals, so considered a good deal) - tasted tonight - quite good w/ oak vanilla flavors - no great aging potential, maybe a year or so, but quite pleasant; really a PITY that GREAT CA Cabernet is now utterly in the strastophere for price - I just can't buy into this escalation of prices - I'll be exploring other areas, such as Chile & Argentina -  ;D
 
 

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2007, 06:44:41 PM »
Well, has been about a week w/o any posts to the Wine Thread - just received a 'mixed' case shipment from the The Wine Club out of California - shipping to North Carolina w/o a problem (except the stupid signature @ your house!) - use to order from them a lot in the past (really hate these interstate wine commerce regulations!).

At any rate, the following arrived - all tasted & recommended:  1) St. Supery '06 'Sauvignon Blanc' (Napa Vly) - buy this yearly, just always good but not the cheapest of that grape; 2) Neyers '05 'Chardonnay' from Carneros - always good (91 rating in Wine Spectator) - had it tonight w/ some King Crab legs - what a COMBO!; 3) Ridge '05 Zinfandel (Ponzo Vyd) - probably will age for a couple of years, but delicious now!; and 4) St. Clair '06 Sauvignon Blanc from New Zealand - great ratings & absolutely delicious - buy it, if available -  :)

 
 

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2007, 01:18:06 AM »
These are two of the wines we had this week:



We drank the Pomerol with a baby turkey I grilled on the Weber (Germany, our area anyway, skipped both winter and spring and went straight from a protracted fall to 75-80° days these last weeks in April; it feels like a typical German August). I've been saving a few bottles of Nenin since 1998. I shouldn't have. The wine was far more interesting young and is now probably in decline.

While we were in Berlin for the Mahler cycle, we visited the palace complex of Sans Souci in Potsdam. We were surprised to see vineyards! The wine was for sale in the gift shop and I decided to buy a bottle of the pinot noir (Blauer Spätburgunder in German): Prussian Premium (17 Euro). Mrs. Rock was skeptical: how could it be a decent red wine this far north? I pointed out the Gold Prize, usually a guarantee that you're getting a good bottle (the wine is tested by a state agency, tasted blind by a panel of wine experts). We let it rest three weeks and opened it yesterday. It was superb. Complex nose and taste: black cherry, chocolate and mint (Mrs. Rock noticed the wintergreen component); faint vanilla and wood, the barrique used judiciously, not overpowering the grape. We drank it with Mrs. Rock's famous salmon burgers.

Sarge
« Last Edit: April 29, 2007, 01:44:01 AM by Sergeant Rock »
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2007, 01:41:05 AM »
At any rate, the following arrived - all tasted & recommended:  1) St. Supery '06 'Sauvignon Blanc' (Napa Vly) - buy this yearly, just always good but not the cheapest of that grape; 2) Neyers '05 'Chardonnay' from Carneros - always good (91 rating in Wine Spectator) - had it tonight w/ some King Crab legs - what a COMBO!; 3) Ridge '05 Zinfandel (Ponzo Vyd) - probably will age for a couple of years, but delicious now!; and 4) St. Clair '06 Sauvignon Blanc from New Zealand - great ratings & absolutely delicious - buy it, if available -  :)

That looks like a fine selection, Dave. It's lunchtime here and the thought of crab and chardonnay is making me very hungry! I'll have to settle for considerably less unfortunately...at least for now. This evening, after it cools down, we're going to Bürklin-Wolf's restaurant in Ruppertsberg (the village next to Diedesheim). B-W is one of the great German wine estates: superb Riesling and Pinot Noir, and a sparkling wine that rivals Champagne.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline SonicMan46

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #54 on: April 29, 2007, 04:48:23 AM »
These are two of the wines we had this week:



We drank the Pomerol with a baby turkey I grilled on the Weber (Germany, our area anyway, skipped both winter and spring and went straight from a protracted fall to 75-80° days these last weeks in April; it feels like a typical German August). I've been saving a few bottles of Nenin since 1998. I shouldn't have. The wine was far more interesting young and is now probably in decline......


Sarge - hello & enjoyed your posts - would love to try some of that German Riesling & Pinot Noir:P  My Bordeaux collection is dwindling away - use to buy a lot of  'futures' w/ a friend, and really had a nice assortment for many years; currently, just have the 'better' years from 1995 into 2000 (stopped purchasing Bordeaux after 2000 - the ones I used to buy just escalated so much in price, and there really is not much of a selection in my city to try to find the 'excellent' non-classified growths).  At any rate, I did taste my '95 Bordeaux a few months back - they are ready to go, but I must say that over the years, I tend to prefer them younger & more tannic (I guess a French vs. an English preference) - well have a great time eating out!  Dave :)

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #55 on: April 29, 2007, 05:16:23 AM »
Sarge - hello & enjoyed your posts - would love to try some of that German Riesling & Pinot Noir:P  My Bordeaux collection is dwindling away - use to buy a lot of  'futures' w/ a friend, and really had a nice assortment for many years; currently, just have the 'better' years from 1995 into 2000 (stopped purchasing Bordeaux after 2000 - the ones I used to buy just escalated so much in price, and there really is not much of a selection in my city to try to find the 'excellent' non-classified growths).  At any rate, I did taste my '95 Bordeaux a few months back - they are ready to go, but I must say that over the years, I tend to prefer them younger & more tannic (I guess a French vs. an English preference) - well have a great time eating out!  Dave :)

Certainly the French aren't wrong. Mrs. Rock prefers almost any wine young, including Bordeaux: that exuberant, in-your-face fruit. I can go either way. Mature Bordeaux can be breathtaking...there's nothing else quite like that nose. I almost prefer to inhale rather than drink it ;D  The problem is knowing when to open the bottle. It's really hit or miss. I was surprised there wasn't more to the Nenin. I checked Parker after we drank it and he said to drink it young, within seven or eight years. Shoiuld have checked sooner, eh? It didn't look old though. I still don't know if it's in decline or just hasn't opened up yet. Now what to do with the last bottle...enjoy it as a simple rustic red without much character or let it sit a few more years, hoping for a miracle?

I stopped buying cru classé Bordeaux by the case around 1994 with the 91 vintage. There was a string of mediocre vintages plus the prices began to climb out of my reach. I bought a few half cases of 95s but other than that it's been single bottles mostly, and not very often. Grand Cru St. Emilion remained reasonable though (and often very, very good) as did the Medoc's cru bourgeois. That's what we've been drinking the last ten years when we needed a Bordeaux.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline MishaK

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #56 on: April 29, 2007, 06:14:37 AM »
B-W is one of the great German wine estates: superb Riesling and Pinot Noir, and a sparkling wine that rivals Champagne.

And outstanding Gewürztraminer, too (their Gewürztraminer 'S').

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #57 on: April 30, 2007, 12:44:15 PM »
And outstanding Gewürztraminer, too (their Gewürztraminer 'S').

Although I prefer Alsation Gewürztraminer, you're right, Bürklin-Wolf makes a great bottle.

Here's where we went Sunday evening for dinner. It's a building adjacent to the vineyards that used to house the stables, the machinery and wagons; the stuff needed to cultivate and harvest grapes. The Bürklin-Wolf wine estate, which owns it, converted it into a Weinstube/restaurant.




When the weather permits, as it did yesterday, you can eat and drink in the courtyard. The wood stove is used to make Flammekuchen (literally flame cake, Alsation-style tarte flambé)




I had Coq au citron (chicken stewed in lemon broth with white asparagus), mashed potatoes and salad; Mrs. Rock had a salad with fried chicken livers and a variation of Flammekuchen topped with feta, onions, and basil leaves. We drank a dry Riesling:




The weather was perfect, sunshine, 75°. This doesn't happen very often in Germany this time of year and people were taking advantage of it.

Sarge
« Last Edit: April 30, 2007, 12:49:12 PM by Sergeant Rock »
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline MishaK

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2007, 12:56:40 PM »
Sarge, would you believe it, there is a restaurant in Chicago now that serves tarte flambé. I was very happy to discover that upon moving here, as I would not have to miss that old favorite from our Frankfurt days.

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!
« Reply #59 on: April 30, 2007, 01:01:59 PM »
Sarge, would you believe it, there is a restaurant in Chicago now that serves tarte flambé. I was very happy to discover that upon moving here, as I would not have to miss that old favorite from our Frankfurt days.

Actually I would now. The last few times I've been "home" I've discovered some incredible restaurants in Ohio (in Columbus, in Akron) that almost...almost...make me forget Europe...or rather, provide a little taste of my adopted home :)

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"