WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Sadly, this once-good wine did not really survive the bad storage conditions in my Munich cellar.
It has gone: phewwwwfff... lost its tightness, some of its acidity. In the old days, we'd have shrugged resignedly, and poured it down the drain; grabbed the next one.
Thanks, however, to the age of "orange wine" and "natural wine" and "amphora wine", we have a whole new way of appreciating wine that's gone bad.
So in this case I was able to detect strong notes of vanilla, never present before, and able to convince myself: "Yes, maybe not a good wine in the conventional sense, but certainly interest. Take that strong sense of Vanilla, for example, on this weirdly non-integrated acidity."

[Sergeant Rock]

Thanks, however, to the age of "orange wine" and "natural wine" and "amphora wine", we have a whole new way of appreciating wine that's gone bad.

Has it really gone bad or has it just matured in a way you don't appreciate? I've never kept Weissburgunder more than a year so I don't know its aging potential. It's so damn good young, bottles just don't survive long around here 

Sarge

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

Having this tonight with BBQ ribs--a good, solid (delicious) rioja for relatively little (15$ at Trader Joe's). We bought the 2009 vintage. (not sure the photo is the exact right label)

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

Speaking of tempranillo, it is one of my new favorite varietals. We vacation on the California Central Coast a few times a year and always stop in for a tasting and some of this--Hearst Ranch, near Hearst Castle in San Simeon. Very nice offerings here, as well as excellent sandwiches, burgers, right next to the sea. Very low key and relaxing. (Billionaires in this area drive old beaters, while all the tryhards/tourists are in brand new BMWs, Range Rovers and the like)



Check it out: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g33039-d105354-Reviews-Sebastian_General_Store-San_Simeon_San_Luis_Obispo_County_California.html

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Has it really gone bad or has it just matured in a way you don't appreciate? I've never kept Weissburgunder more than a year so I don't know its aging potential. It's so damn good young, bottles just don't survive long around here 

Sarge

The latter, presumably. But I am convinced it would have aged better, much more appreciably (or well just slower) under better conditions. Do you know the Riesling vom Schiefer by Claus Somethingsomething, the brother in law (or so) of Wittmann? I've found that to age very well... but then it is Riesling and aging well for Riesling is perhaps more common than Weissburgunder.

More or less happened to this one, though, as well, although not AS pronounced:

[The new erato]

I recently tasted these:

Dönnhoff Riesling Dellchen GG 2013
Mosbacher Riesling Ungeheuer GG 2013
Keller Hubacker Riesling GG 2013
Dönnhoff Riesling Norheim Dellchen GG 2012 
Von Buhl Riesling Pechstein GG 2012
Keller Riesling Hubacker 2012   
Schäfer-Fröhlich Riesling Halenberg GG 2012
Rebholz Riesling «Ganz Horn» GG 2012
Keller Riesling Morstein GG 2012   
Schäfer-Fröhlich Riesling Kupfergrube GG 2012
Mosbacher Riesling Freundstuck GG 2012
Wittmann Riesling Aulerde GG 2012
Kruger-Rumpf Riesling Dautenpflazer GG 2011
Mosbacher Forst Ungeheuer 2011 GG
Mosbacher Forst Pechstein 2011 GG
Breuer Orleans Rüdesheim 2007
Breuer Berg Rottland Riesling 2007
Breuer Berg Rottland 2007

No way that should have happened to a Wittmann 2012 Riesling, even though on a lower level than GG. Bad bottle, bad cork, bad storage ?

[SurprisedByBeauty]

No way that should have happened to a Wittmann 2012 Riesling, even though on a lower level than GG. Bad bottle, bad cork, bad storage ?

No issues with the cork and -- since the other bottles suffer similar symptoms, very obviously bad storage. Just too warm in the summer, in that half-ass cellar.
I've only once had a really good wine cellar -- and that was a nightmare-apartment / time in my life in every other respect. Hence the wine-fridge now.

[The new erato]

Nice evening with a small circle of friends on Saturday (we were 5).

Noteworthy wines:

Gosset 2000 - a bruiser of a champagne in a "Bollinger light" style
A superb Zilliken Rausch Diabas 2010 with some residual but well controlled sweetness (meaning it doesn't qualify as a GG)
A very precise and extremely elegant Clape Cornas 2001 (my bottle, having been opened for hours before serving).
A rustic and very tasty Bucaco Tinto Reserva 2004 from the famous deep cellars of the hotel in Coimbra
A very tasty - but nok very Margaux like - Ch Lascombe 86 from Margaux, Bordeaux
A mature and elegant, but slightly over the top Ch Batailley 86 from Pauillac, Bordeaux
A lighty corked Leoville Barton 86 from St Julien, Bordeaux - lots of quality here but a pity about the cork
A very concentrated and interesting Montrose 86 from St Estephe, Bordeaux - I've had 4 bottles of this wine over the last couple of years and all bottles have been quire different, this was masculine in a textbook Montrose style, but with baffling aromas of oranges just after opening of the bottle.

EDIT: And I forgot about the Scarpa Barbaresco Tettineive 1999 and Nigl Riesling Privat 2002, both very successful wines.

On Sunday (in the wineclub) we tasted 22 Piemonte wines from outside Barolo/Barbaresco where the Valtellina wines of Triacca and Arpepe really shone. A challenging weekend.

In two weeks we will be doing a Huet (of Vouvray, Loire fame) tasting with 21 wines going back to the 1971 vintage. All done to keep the winter blues away.

Vouvray Petillant Brut 2002
Vouvray Le Mont Sec 2013
Vouvray Clos du Bourg Sec 2012
Vouvray Le Haut Lieu Sec 2012
Vouvray Le Mont Sec 2010
Vouvray Clos du Bourg Sec 2010
Vouvray Le Haut Lieu Sec 2010
Vouvray Le Mont Sec 2007
Vouvray Clos du Bourg Sec 2007
Vouvray Le Haut Lieu Sec 2007
Vouvray Le Haut Lieu Sec 2002
Vouvray Le Haut Lieu Sec 1996
Vouvray Le Mont Demisec 2011
Vouvray Le Mont Demisec 2006
Vouvray Le Mont Demisec 2003
Vouvray Le Haut Lieu Demisec 2002
Vouvray Clos du Bourg Demisec 2005
Vouvray Le Mont Moelleux 1ere Trie 1996
Vouvray Le Mont Moelleux 1ere Trie 1990
Vouvray Cuvee Constance 1989
Vouvray Le Haut Lieu Moelleux 1ere Trie 1989
Vouvray Le Mont Moelleux 1971

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Transferred here, so that this thread may also deal with wine for mortals. 

Thanks for the recommendation. The Frizzante Green has the price crossed out. Ausverkauft? How is their Veltliner? I'm always hesitant to buy that varietal without sampling first: some of the worst wine I've ever had...some of the best.

Sarge

Ausverkauft? SOB. But they'll have more; it's not like it's a vintage thing. And the Pinky is very, very similar, actually.

They have different Veltliner's. I like Krems-Veltliners, generally, but I hear you. Not aggressive and no longer violently cheap as they might have once been, 20, 30 years ago. I'm away from my copious notes that I've taken, but when back in Vienna, I'll consult them and let you know.

[Sergeant Rock]

A challenging weekend.

  ....I need to be challenged like that. Damn the liver, full speed ahead 

Transferred here, so that this thread may also deal with wine for mortals. 

Ausverkauft? SOB. But they'll have more; it's not like it's a vintage thing. And the Pinky is very, very similar, actually.

I don't know if it's sold out or not, I just noticed the price is crossed out. Didn't see Pinky at all. I'll take another look.


Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

A mature and elegant, but slightly over the top Ch Batailley 86 from Pauillac, Bordeaux
A lighty corked Leoville Barton 86 from St Julien, Bordeaux - lots of quality here but a pity about the cork
A very concentrated and interesting Montrose 86 from St Estephe, Bordeaux

I have some old Leovilles, Batailleys and one Montrose ('82) in the cellar. Hoping they are still alive    I have had some good luck recently with my old Bordeaux. Both the 90 Château Ducru-Beaucaillou (2nd growth St. Julien) and 89 Château Palmer (third growth Margaux) were in good shape (the Palmer much better than the last bottle I opened, the Ducru untainted by the bad corks Parker warned about).




Sarge

[The new erato]

No reason they shouldn't be good --- the Montrose 82 will be stellar. And Palmer 89 is a legend. Ducru in the 80ies had major brett problems in their cellar and the wines may be somewhat variable. I have a Ducru 86 somewhere......

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

You folks getting ready to buy some Beaujolais Nouveau (3rd Thurs of Nov)? I might get a couple bottles of the Kermit Lynch if I can make it over to our local wine store.

[Brian]

I haven't bought any B Nouveau in probably twenty years. Good examples are impossible to come by in my neck of the Wald. Beaujolais proper isn't available here either.

Sarge

That's too bad - non-nouveau stuff like Fleurie and Morgon is seriously my jam. Love the spice and lightness in tandem. Texas gets a tiny quantity, which I try to buy all of 

Last night my friends and I convened for our first Erato-style bonanza wine tasting, at a local BYOB Chinese restaurant. While the waiter carved our Peking duck tableside and presented us with a whole chicken that had been roasted at low temperature for 22 hours, we sampled:

- Rieslings: Haart Goldtröpfchen Auslese (Mosel '12) and Mt. Rosa Wines (New Zealand South Island; '12 I think)
- a German Gewurztraminer, did not take careful note of this one
- two burgundies, a '10 whose name I forget and '12 Michel Gay Chorey-le-Beaune
- an '11 NZ pinot noir from Central Otago, again forgot the name
- Left Coast white (!) pinot noir, Willamette Valley '15
- Ayoub rosé of pinot noir, McMinnville, Oregon '15
(I contributed the last two.)

The two Rieslings were outstanding - and in stark contrast with each other, too. Surprisingly it was the New Zealand bottle that had more of the dry-sweet tension and complex expression that I usually associate with rieslings, whereas the Mosel was straightforwardly delectable. Michel Gay's Chorey-le-Beaune is an absurd bargain for the quality on offer (according to the restaurateur who brought it, having swiped it from her restaurant's cellar); we opened it and left it in the middle of the table until the duck arrived. The most divisive wine was the rosé, which bore no label whatsoever, just "rosé 2015" in silver Sharpie: the deepest-colored, darkest-toned, most boldly/overtly/aggressively "red" rosé I have ever tasted. It preserved the pinot noir grape character so strongly that I think some of the drinkers were genuinely confused. One person suggested that it would make great sangria; another person suggested that, by itself, it already was sangria.

[Sergeant Rock]

- Rieslings: Haart Goldtröpfchen Auslese (Mosel '12) ...the Mosel was straightforwardly delectable.

Haart is a wine-making genius (if we are talking about Theo Haart, the owner of Weingut Rheinhold Haart). I shared a bottle of his Goldtröpchen Auslese (2003) with my oldest friend the last time I was in Ohio and it was a memorable half hour (the bottle didn't last long  )  The vineyard itself, which I've driven past many times, is a beauty too.




Sarge

[Spineur]

You folks getting ready to buy some Beaujolais Nouveau (3rd Thurs of Nov)? I might get a couple bottles of the Kermit Lynch if I can make it over to our local wine store.

Because of the weather conditions, the quantities produced are quite small, but as usual in these circumstances, the quality is better.  I never bother with Beaujolais Nouveau which is mostly an exercise in marketing.  Not so for other Beaujolais, as mentionned.  The small quantities are quite often a problem.  I get them directly from a producer I know in 1 liter (big) bottles.

[Brian]

Haart is a wine-making genius (if we are talking about Theo Haart, the owner of Weingut Rheinhold Haart). I shared a bottle of his Goldtröpchen Auslese (2003) with my oldest friend the last time I was in Ohio and it was a memorable half hour (the bottle didn't last long  )  The vineyard itself, which I've driven past many times, is a beauty too.




Sarge

That's the stuff!!! And lord, what a beautiful place.

By the way, speaking of Nouveau, I ordered an unorthodox California Nouveau. It will be delivered in a few weeks. Here's the description:

"2016 Bedrock Nouveau, California

Yes, a Bedrock wine meant to be consumed early! This wine was made like Beaujolais Nouveau, but I might suggest it comes from more interesting vineyard material than your typical stuff. The wine is a blend of Zinfandel from Esola Vineyard, planted on granitic schist at 1600' in the Amador foothills along with the oldest Cinsault in the country, own-rooted and planted in the 1880s, from Bechthold Vineyard in Lodi. Both lots were fermented using carbonic maceration in our small concrete tank. The resulting wine is aromatic, juicy and slurpable. Nouveau is traditionally a fete of the most recent harvest, and 2016 was a great vintage in California deserving some early celebration. Drink up!"

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

...  I never bother with Beaujolais Nouveau which is mostly an exercise in marketing. 

Well, maybe. I'm not a connoisseur of the regular stuff, but I surely enjoy the Kermit Lynch take on BN!! Hoping to score some tomorrow along with some interesting LPs (record store across the street--nice neighborhood!!)

In any case, I wish I lived close to these wines where you do! (for many reasons!)

That's the stuff!!! And lord, what a beautiful place.

By the way, speaking of Nouveau, I ordered an unorthodox California Nouveau. It will be delivered in a few weeks. Here's the description:

"2016 Bedrock Nouveau, California

How much? Where do you get it (Bevmo?)?

[The new erato]

I also love the real Beaujolais stuff, and spent a few days living in Morgon last summer. Thumbs up to producers like Desvignes, Brun, Lapierre, Foillard, Chignard, Thivin...there's lots of them, most of them available through our monopoly  .

And I visited Theo Haart in 1997, spending 4 hours with him in Piesport. Mosel is one of my favorite places on earth (visited last time in 2014). Rumour has it that his son Julien is an even more gifted winemaker.

Last nights tipples were:

Felsina Chianti Classico Riserva Rancia 2004 (fabulous dark fruit)
A totally mature Cavalotto Barolo Bricco Boschis 2001
Fritz Haag Brauneberger Juffer Sonnenuhr Kabinett 2007 (still young)

[Brian]

How much? Where do you get it (Bevmo?)?

Ordered direct from winery - you have to sign up for their mailing list. Btw at Kermit Lynch you can buy 3-4 Beaujolais offerings from Marcel Lapierre, all outstanding; many are ageworthy. In NYC this past spring at a great restaurant (Bâtard) I had a beautiful, still-young '07 Nicole Chanrion Domaine de la Voûte-des-Crozes Côte-de-Brouilly - another KL import cru Beaujolais.