WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!

Started by SonicMan46, April 07, 2007, 06:14:18 PM

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SonicMan46

Below are several quotes from the 'movie thread' concerning the film Bottle Shock (2008) about the 1976 Paris tasting in which Steven Spurrier pitted California Chardonnay & Cabernet Sauvignon against their French counterparts from Burgundy & Bordeaux in a 'blind tasting' w/ French judges - the top wine in each category was from the Golden State, i.e. Ch. Montelena Chardonnay 1973 & Stag's Leap Wine Cellar Cabernet Sauvignon 1973 - a dramatic outcome that changed the way the world looked at quality wines, and continuing to this day!  Worth a viewing for those interested in this thread -  :D

QuoteBottle Shock (2008) - movie arrived as a Netflix rental - below is a nice summary of the film from Sarge earlier in the thread; pretty much 'on spot' - but was an enjoyable watch for me despite one-sided dramatization and the distortion of facts.  The story concentrated on the Barrett family, Ch. Montelena, and a winning Chardonnay; of course, there was another MAJOR surprise winner, i.e. Stag's Leap Wine Cellars 1973 Cabernet Sauvignon in the 'red wine' category; made by Warren Winiarski.  But, Alan Rickman as Steven Spurrier is always a joy to watch for me!

If you are into wine and enjoy Rickman, definitely worth a viewing - I'm rating the movie 4/5* on Netflix, but probably not a purchase - lookin' forward to the other film mentioned by Sarge; and don't forget the excellent book on this subject that I posted right after the one quoted below-  :D

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 08, 2009, 05:08:29 AM
I saw Bottle Shock a few days ago too



I did enjoy it overall (every scene with Alan Rickman is classic) but I was bothered by the extreme Hollywoodization of the event it was based on: the 1976 Paris wine tasting. The director and writers somehow managed to include sex, violence, racism, the noble minority character, wet t-shirts and police cars in a tale about wine ::) Apparently they had an American Film Cliché Checklist on hand which they ticked off as they made the movie. Only in Hollywood  :D

Two major historical distortions bothered me too: the man who actually made the prize-winning Chardonnay, the legendary Mike Grgich, is not even mentioned. He was Chateau Montelena's winemaker. (The man Bill Pullman's character was based on was a lawyer who owned the property; he didn't make the wine.) Gustavo wasn't employed by the winery until after Steven Spurrier had returned to France. (The film shows him being fired! not hired!) Gustavo had nothing to do with the wine that won. He didn't begin producing his own wines until years later. And it's doubtful he was part of a romantic triangle with the owner's son and a blonde intern :D

Another movie based on the Paris Tasting is due out in 2010: The Judgment of Paris. It promises to stick closer to the historical facts. Whether that will produce a more entertaining movie though...well, we'll see.

Sarge


SonicMan46

P.S. if Bottle Shock as discussed in the previous post stimulates you to want more of the truth of this famous tasting - then the book below (from an older post I placed back in 2007 in this thread) may be of interest - enjoy!  :)


Quote from: SonicMan on April 20, 2007, 05:10:05 PM
About completed the book below - Judgment of Paris: California vs. France and the Historic 1976 Paris Tasting That Revolutionized Wine by George M. Taber (the only 'reporter' present at the tasting, working for 'Time Magazine').  This is an excellent book of not only the important California characters (esp. Mike Grgich & Warren Winiarski), the event itself, and its aftermath, but an exciting portrait of the re-birth of Napa Vly wines, esp. in the 1960-70s.  Grgich was the wine maker at Ch. Montelena, which had a Chardonnay, while Winiarski of Stag's Leap had a '73 Cabernet - both of these wines were the WINNERS at this blind tasting in Paris w/ completely French judges - nice summary here; also, click on the image for reviews of the book from the Amazonians - excellent read, if interested in this subject -  :D




Mozart

Im sitting here eating cherries and grapes, and I have to say the cherries are much tastier. I wonder if wine can be made from them? Does such a thing exist?
"I am the musical tree, eat of my fruit and your spirit shall rejoiceth!"
- Amadeus 6:26


Mozart

"I am the musical tree, eat of my fruit and your spirit shall rejoiceth!"
- Amadeus 6:26

SonicMan46

Quote from: Mozart on July 09, 2009, 07:47:19 AM
Im sitting here eating cherries and grapes, and I have to say the cherries are much tastier. I wonder if wine can be made from them? Does such a thing exist?

Hello Mozart - pretty much any fruit (or other plant) w/ carbohydrate/sugar can be fermented into an alcoholic beverage, whether good or bad -  ;) :D

Personally, I don't use the term 'wine' except for the beverage fermented from grapes; one could be even more of a 'wine snob' by limiting that definition to the beverage produced from the Vitis vinifera species, i.e. grapes such as Chardonnay & Cabernet Sauvignon, but that would disqualify the American varieties (that you may enjoy from your comments) and the many French hybrids.

Now, despite the above, some wineries make superb beverages from fruits, typically as sweeter dessert wines.  My most recent experience is the Framboise made by Bonny Doon winery (Randy Graham out of California) - this is a raspberry based super sweet dessert FRUIT BOMB!  The flavors are so intense that your nose will spin - really!  So, if you can find some of these specialty products, give them a try!   ;D


The new erato

Quote from: Mozart on July 09, 2009, 08:20:14 AM
And is it good? Or does it taste like cough medicine?
I have not tasted tis version, but they're generally sweet.

Fruit wine doen't taste like wine (ie grape wine).

SonicMan46

Eos - late harvest desset wine made from Muscat grapes - went to Costco today and picked up 1 1/2 cases of wines, including two half bottles of the wine shown below (about $15 each) - this is a California product from the Paso Robles area (just north of Santa Barbara); I've been buying this wine from CA for a number of years and it is just delicious!  :P

The Muscat grape is quite ubiquitous; sweet wines are made from the grape in southern France ( Beaumes de Venise), then into Italy (known as the Moscato - grape for Asti Spumante etc.).

If you can find this wine in your area, give it a time!  ;D


The new erato

Quote from: SonicMan on July 09, 2009, 03:19:08 PM
  but that would disqualify the American varieties (that you may enjoy from your comments) and the many French hybrids.
I wasn't aware of non-Vitis Vinifera varieties/hybrids in use in France (nor in Europe for that matter)?

SonicMan46

Quote from: erato on July 11, 2009, 01:28:24 AM
I wasn't aware of non-Vitis Vinifera varieties/hybrids in use in France (nor in Europe for that matter)?

Hi Erato - well, I would think that the European wine laws, esp. in France would likely 'forbid' their use, but in the USA & Canada, their use is quite ubiquitous & popular.

One of my favorite 'white' hybrid varietals is Seyval Blanc (below left) - I prefer the 'dry' types which remind me of Sauvignon Blanc - this is a popular grape in my 'neck of the woods', i.e. Virginia & North Carolina.

Vidal Blanc (below, middle) is another; more common in the northern climates on this continent; popular in making 'ice wine' in Ontario; the Inniskillin 'ice wines' from Ontario are just superb examples, whether from Riesling or Vidal Blanc, but SO expensive!  :-\

Of red wine hybrids, Chambourcin is the one that I've tasted the most, and again produced quite a bit in NC & Virginia - Dave  :D

   

The new erato

Quote from: SonicMan on July 11, 2009, 06:50:43 AM
Hi Erato - well, I would think that the European wine laws, esp. in France would likely 'forbid' their use, but in the USA & Canada, their use is quite ubiquitous & popular.

Yes I know, and they are probably of the indigenious American Vitis Lambrusco family, but what threw me was the Europena reference. Have never had any wines from Vitis Lambrusco varietals though..

Brünnhilde ewig

Dave, It was some time ago I promised you to fill the empy slots in my wine racks with Oregon wines you have tempted us with. Today's the day I gone shopping for wine in two stores and here is the list of what I found:

Pinot Noir 2007 Bridgeview   $14.95
Pinot Noir 2007 Erath            21.19
Pinot Noir 2007 Firesteed       14.79
Pinot Noir 2006 Firesteed       13.49
Pinot Noir 2006 Duck Pond     19.79
Pinot Noir 2007 Eola Hills         7.99
Pinot Gris 2006 Bridgeview     10.49
Pinot Gris 2007 King Estate    13.99
Pinot Gris 2007 Adelsheim      15.79
Pinot Gris 2007 Erath            13.49
Pinot Gris 2007 Duck Pond     10.79

None of those sound familiar from your list, maybe the King Estate, and none older than 2006. I tried, Honey, I tried! :'(

Lis

Bogey

Lis,
Curious to your take on the King Estate.  Please post after you have tried.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

SonicMan46

Quote from: Brünnhilde ewig on July 14, 2009, 09:53:49 AM
Dave, It was some time ago I promised you to fill the empy slots in my wine racks with Oregon wines you have tempted us with. Today's the day I gone shopping for wine in two stores and here is the list of what I found:

Pinot Noir 2007 Bridgeview   $14.95
Pinot Noir 2007 Erath            21.19
Pinot Noir 2007 Firesteed       14.79
Pinot Noir 2006 Firesteed       13.49
Pinot Noir 2006 Duck Pond     19.79
Pinot Noir 2007 Eola Hills         7.99
Pinot Gris 2006 Bridgeview     10.49
Pinot Gris 2007 King Estate    13.99
Pinot Gris 2007 Adelsheim      15.79
Pinot Gris 2007 Erath            13.49
Pinot Gris 2007 Duck Pond     10.79

None of those sound familiar from your list, maybe the King Estate, and none older than 2006. I tried, Honey, I tried! :'(

Hi Lis - I've had all of the Pinot Gris listed except for the Duck Pond - you should enjoy; of course, the King Estate is a perennial favorite of mine & a frequent 'restaurant' choice - in fact, have about 3 bottles of the '07 in the cellar @ the moment!

Concerning the Pinot Noirs, I've probably had half of those wineries in the past - not sure of the years; but not to worry, many of the Oregon Pinot Noirs drink quite well when young - in fact, I'm adding the '06 & '07 to my cellar now; I rarely spend much over $30 (and often less) for a bottle of this Oregonian wine, but there are plenty of offerings that are twice or more that price - those might require a couple of years of cellar aging.

But give them a try & let us know your thoughts -  :)  Dave

Brünnhilde ewig

Quote from: Bogey on July 14, 2009, 10:34:42 AM
Lis,
Curious to your take on the King Estate.  Please post after you have tried.

I have tried it, and want to remind you all, I am not an expert on wine, that is, writing and talking about it; leave that to the expert with the fancy words. My opinion is that of a person enjoying drinking wine with meals and with friends.

The first mouth full of the 2007 King Estate Pinot Gris caused a sizzle on my tongue, feeling as if I am tasting a sparkling wine. Surprised me! Then I tried to discover definitive fruits and could only come up with apples; maybe a bit of a pear, but both of those fruits very sweet. For my taste, this wine is too sweet; it'll go good with chicken dishes, but not with anything more robust, not even fish. Could it be this 2007 wine needs a few more years of storage to loose some of it's sweetness, or is my palate so used to the very dry Lemberger I should develop a liking for anything sweeter?

Maybe any of the other Pinot Gris in my meager collection are different. I'll tell you!  :)

SonicMan46

Quote from: Brünnhilde ewig on July 18, 2009, 04:02:54 PM
The first mouth full of the 2007 King Estate Pinot Gris caused a sizzle on my tongue, feeling as if I am tasting a sparkling wine. Surprised me! Then I tried to discover definitive fruits and could only come up with apples; maybe a bit of a pear, but both of those fruits very sweet. For my taste, this wine is too sweet; it'll go good with chicken dishes, but not with anything more robust, not even fish. Could it be this 2007 wine needs a few more years of storage to loose some of it's sweetness, or is my palate so used to the very dry Lemberger I should develop a liking for anything sweeter?

Hello Lis - sounds like from your description that you did not like the King Estate described above?  :-\

Sorry for the experience - this is still a favorite wine of mine and continue to buy & order it - not sure if the 'sizzle' described might have been the acidity and/or some 'fizz' in the wine (I've not experienced the latter over the years, so assume that the acidity was the issue).

'Sweetness' - is always a varied experience for different tasters, i.e. some sense sweetness at lower levels more that others; I've never found that much extra-sugar in this wine - my test is to let a small volume accumulate in the lower front of my mouth and then stick the tip on my tongue into the 'pool' (your tongue 'sweet buds' are located @ the tip and if there is no 'sweet' taste then the flavor is coming from fruit).  Of course, people experience 'sweetness' differently which will impact on their perception of a wine; many wine makers actually add a 'little' sugar to their wines (a good example is the Kendall-Jackson Chardonnay, Vintner's Reserve) to mellow the acidity & the oak; many love this combination - however, if you like 'bone dry' wines (red or white), then this will not be an enjoyable drink.

Now, I still must say that this wine from this vintage is an excellent bargain, and for those who like 'white' wines and are just getting into this experience, the King Estate Pinot Gris is worth a bottle (or restaurant glass) purchase - take a look at their Website HERE - click on the reviews etc. - this is an acidic wine (thus the 'sizzle') which will match many foods, in my opinion - Dave  :)

Brünnhilde ewig

Dave, your excellent reply made me happy because you are deeper into the mysteries of this heavenly liquid than I am. I read the articles you attached and had to smile at the glowing and blowing attributes found in this wine. Taste of stones? Come on now, isn't this a bit too much?

I am aware of the increase of interest in this country on the subject of wine and the class of people setting themselves up as the ultimate connoisseurs of wines, and don't misunderstand me, dear Dave, I admire them for their enthusiasm, but to Europeans wine is as normal a beverage as beer is for Americans. Wine has been served with meals and without them for a long, long time, and has been, and still is being served to minors without creating nations of alcoholics. I had my first sip of wine from my mother's glass when I was maybe 6 or 7!

What I am trying to say, is, that in my opinion all that talk and writing about flowers, fruit, herbs and stones borders on being a wine snob. I never had any problems enjoying a glass of vine ordinarier in a French Bistro, an Italian Trattoria and Austrian Gasthaus!  ;D

MishaK

Quote from: SonicMan on July 01, 2009, 07:23:40 AM
Below are several quotes from the 'movie thread' concerning the film Bottle Shock (2008) about the 1976 Paris tasting in which Steven Spurrier pitted California Chardonnay & Cabernet Sauvignon against their French counterparts from Burgundy & Bordeaux in a 'blind tasting' w/ French judges - the top wine in each category was from the Golden State, i.e. Ch. Montelena Chardonnay 1973 & Stag's Leap Wine Cellar Cabernet Sauvignon 1973 - a dramatic outcome that changed the way the world looked at quality wines, and continuing to this day!  Worth a viewing for those interested in this thread -  :D

I think based on Sarge's review I will skip the movie. But I do have several of Mike Grgich's stellar Chardonnays in the cellar from his current operation Grgich Hills Estate. That winery, part from being absolutely superb, has been biodynamic for a while already and they are aiming for organic certification in the near future.

SonicMan46

Quote from: Brünnhilde ewig on July 19, 2009, 04:27:36 PM
Dave, your excellent reply made me happy because you are deeper into the mysteries of this heavenly liquid than I am. I read the articles you attached and had to smile at the glowing and blowing attributes found in this wine. Taste of stones? Come on now, isn't this a bit too much?..........

What I am trying to say, is, that in my opinion all that talk and writing about flowers, fruit, herbs and stones borders on being a wine snob. I never had any problems enjoying a glass of vine ordinarier.......

Lis - LOL about the 'stones'!  ;D  But 'stones', 'steely', 'flinty' etc. are terms that have been applied to some of these white wines, even glorified in the so-called Aroma Wheel developed by Ann Noble from the U of CA (Davis) ; many of the white grapes (such as Riesling & Pinot Gris) from Germany & Alsace often have a 'stony' or 'flinty' taste (like smelling 'gun steel' - I know does not make much sense); some of the Sauvignon Blancs from the upper Loire Vly (Sancerre & Pouilly Fume) are other examples.  So, just descriptions that don't often register w/ me when drinking many of these wines.

Now, your other point about drinking wines @ a young age; I really applaud those European cultures that introduce wine to their youngsters as a part of dining - I wish that my growing up was similar (but was not!); wine is a natural beverage of nature and most is meant to be drunk young & w/ food - nothing special or deep, so the comments of Lis are quite applicable - i.e. much wine can be enjoyed as a beverage to go w/ food and even the simplest product is enjoyable!   ;D

SonicMan46

Montes (2008) Sauvignon Blanc from the Leyda Vyd in San Antonio near the Pacific coast of Chile - this is a 'new' wine for me from this South American country; a number of regions near the ocean have evolved in recent years, probably the most famous is the Casablanca Vly - these white wines are being made from 'cooler' regions close to the water and w/ more modern techniques, i.e. preservation of the fruit, good acidity, etc.

I purchased this wine recently from Costco - CASES were available at about $9 a bottle - this is a delicious wine - no great complexity and no aging potential, but if available in your area, then a recommendation.  These Chilean areas being developed nearer the Pacific Ocean offer great potential (and value!) - below is a map added (right) showing how close the San Antonio area is to the sea - hey, if you see this bottle on the shelf, take a chance!  :D