WINE - Red, White, or Other - Discussed Here!

Started by SonicMan46, April 07, 2007, 06:14:18 PM

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Bogey

#800
My wife is making some chicken fricassee and needed a little white.  This one was suppose to have been opened back as far as 2011, but it is still wonderful.  Reminds me not to get too snooty about reds and why I need more whites on the rack.  How far do you folks push your white wines with aging?

There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Bogey on March 26, 2014, 03:13:56 PMHow far do you folks push your white wines with aging?[/font][/size]

Mrs. Rock likes whites as young as possible; I can take some aging. But it depends on the varietal, style and producer. Riesling can age forever. I've had German (Pfälzer) Riesling from the '59 vintage recently, and it was still kicking with upfront lime flavors. A '95 grand cru Alsatian I opened last year was one of the best whites I've ever had, a perfect match for a spicy, coconut infused Indian dish. On the other hand, Sauvignon Blanc from NZ is best in its first year, going downhill rapidly after that (to my taste). Ami Chardonnay has never aged well for me...but I think the style and producer is critical here and I may not have had the best exemplars. I'm glad the Ferrari worked out for you.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Bogey

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 26, 2014, 03:28:42 PM
Mrs. Rock likes whites as young as possible; I can take some aging. But it depends on the varietal, style and producer. Riesling can age forever. I've had German (Pfälzer) Riesling from the '59 vintage recently, and it was still kicking with upfront lime flavors. A '95 grand cru Alsatian I opened last year was one of the best whites I've ever had, a perfect match for a spicy, coconut infused Indian dish. On the other hand, Sauvignon Blanc from NZ is best in its first year, going downhill rapidly after that (to my taste). Ami Chardonnay has never aged well for me...but I think the style and producer is critical here and I may not have had the best exemplars. I'm glad the Ferrari worked out for you.

Sarge

Fingers were definitely crossed on this one.  I try to  get them open the week I buy them.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

SonicMan46

Quote from: Bogey on March 26, 2014, 03:35:10 PM
Fingers were definitely crossed on this one.  I try to  get them open the week I buy them.

Hi Bill - well Sarge has already given you some great advice!  My first response is also 'it depends' - at my age, most of the whites I buy are for 'immediate' consumption, i.e. will not save much more than a year or two, especially the less expensive ones - now I use to buy a LOT of F-C Chard & Sauvignon Blanc - probably had the one you pictured and would have consumed it w/i a couple of years.

NOW, some that I use to save that did improve w/ age included chardonnays from Burgundy (the better ones) and those from CA which where age, and even fermented in oak on their lees; German Rieslings meant to be aged a while; Sauternes (use to buy those on release and waited until their 8-12th birthdays - BOY, made a big difference) - at present, I'm not buying those wines any more (OH, another was Hunter Vly Semillon - those greatly improved after a half dozen or more years).  There are other examples (e.g. some Chenin Blancs from the Loire Vly) that I have no experience in aging or tasting.

Bottom line is that the vast majority of white wines, especially the dry table types are meant to be consumed pretty much on release or w/i a couple of years.  Dave :)

Bogey

Only a large glass left for tomorrow's pork dish and that almost did not happen. ;D  I need to buy a few bottles to have on hand as we have more chicken and pork than red meat anymore and I love how the whites pair.  However, reds work in a pinch. >:D
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

SonicMan46

Quote from: Bogey on March 26, 2014, 05:22:43 PM
Only a large glass left for tomorrow's pork dish and that almost did not happen. ;D  I need to buy a few bottles to have on hand as we have more chicken and pork than red meat anymore and I love how the whites pair.  However, reds work in a pinch. >:D

Bill - well, I don't know if you've gotten much into Pinot Noir, but my choice for a pork tenderloin, and also tuna & salmon, so don't be leery of mixing 'reds & whites' w/ different dishes, the old saying 'white wines w/ white meats' & 'reds w/ red meats' is a very general rule meant to be broken!  Dave :)

Sergeant Rock

#806
Went wine shopping yesterday. Bought 30 bottles: 12 bottles of a Bulgarian Merlot ("Enira" from Domaine Bessa Valley, €9.90 a bottle) and dry Riesling from three different regions and three different VDPers, six bottles each.




From the Mosel winery Grans-Fassian, Fuder 12 (€9.50):




From the Rheingau estate Kloster Eberbach Hessische Staatsweingüter, the Hochheimer Kirchenstück (€11.95):




And from the Pfalz, Meßmer's (Burrweiler) Schäwer Riesling trocken (€16.90):




Kirchenstück and Schäwer (pronounced shaver) are vineyards. A Fuder is a wooden wine cask that holds about 1000 liters:





Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Bogey

Is that last photo from your basement, Sarge? ;)

Tonight:

There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

SonicMan46

Quote from: Bogey on April 13, 2014, 05:39:06 PM
Is that last photo from your basement, Sarge? ;)

Tonight:



Hi Bill - I'm sure that I've had that Catena Malbec - you've been saving that one for a few years, I assume?  Currently, I have their 2010 & 2011 in my basement; great value in those Argentina Reds!  Dave :)

Bogey

Quote from: SonicMan46 on April 13, 2014, 06:10:34 PM
Hi Bill - I'm sure that I've had that Catena Malbec - you've been saving that one for a few years, I assume?  Currently, I have their 2010 & 2011 in my basement; great value in those Argentina Reds!  Dave :)

When I checked out the price of the 2008, I kept the cork in and texted my friend that gave it to me that we needed to share this one.  Went with plan B.  Another from Colorado:

There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

The new erato

Last week I bought a 6-pack of Georg Mosbacher's 2012 GGs. (2 each  of the Ungeheuer, Pechstein and Freundstuck). I'm sure the Sarge knows them. As well as a single bottle of Keller's Abtserde ..... (at 90 USD a pop......, anyhow those were rationed and the single bottle was what were available - one of the great Riesling icons). Now to give them 4-6 years in the cellar. As well as 3 bottles of my favorite Beajoulais, Foillard's Morgon Cotes de Py in the same vintage. Now I'm pondering going back for some Schæfer-Frøhlich.....

Sergeant Rock

#811
Quote from: The new erato on April 13, 2014, 10:04:51 PM
Last week I bought a 6-pack of Georg Mosbacher's 2012 GGs. (2 each  of the Ungeheuer, Pechstein and Freundstuck). I'm sure the Sarge knows them.

Oh yeah. I've walked those vineyards and have consumed hundreds of bottles of Forsters, including a couple of Mosbacher's GGs. I love especially the wine from the Ungeheuer. I still recall how sensational von Buhl's 1990 Ungeheuer Spätlese trocken was--the "Gipfel" wine (chosen for and served at a Summit meeting in the early 90s). Mosbacher is one of the great vintners in the Pfalz. I've never bought from him directly but have purchased the occasional bottle in wine shops and often order his wine at a Weinstube in Mrs. Rock's hometown. Our favorite restaurant in Kallstadt (the Kallstadter Hof) also offers Mosbacher.

http://www.kallstadter-hof.de/deutsche-weinstrasse-pfalz.htm

You're correct to let them rest in the cellar a few years. The Pechsteins can be pretty severe in their youth.

Quote from: The new erato on April 13, 2014, 10:04:51 PM
As well as a single bottle of Keller's Abtserde ..... (at 90 USD a pop......, anyhow those were rationed and the single bottle was what were available - one of the great Riesling icons).

Keller's wines are mindboggling (as are his prices  ;) ). Germany's greatest vintner? He might get my vote. His estate is a ten minute drive from our house.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

The new erato

#812
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 14, 2014, 04:37:17 AM
His estate is a ten minute drive from our house.

Sarge
I kind of guessed so. I drove just by the exit from the Keller's estate (in Dalsheim?) a couple of years ago, it may have been in 2011 on my return from Italy. I remember the sign vividly, the temptation to call on the door was very pronounced. I have a Kirchspiel 2007 in the cellar that might well be ready (though probably a days aeration would do it good before drinking).

In 1997 I stayed in a bed & breakfast in Forst with wife and two kids just a few hundred meters from Mosbacher. I've walked the vineyards in Forst and have driven the Weinstrasse a couple of times.

The von Buhl as well as the Burklin-Wolf Rieslings are regular visitors to my cellar, I've stopped and bought from the Burklin-Wolfs on occasion. Magnificent estate!

Sergeant Rock

#813
Quote from: The new erato on April 14, 2014, 05:42:34 AM
I kind of guessed so. I drove just by the exit from the Keller's estate (in Dalsheim?)

Yeah, Flörsheim-Dalsheim, in the Rheinhessen hinterlands.

Quote from: The new erato on April 14, 2014, 05:42:34 AM

The von Buhl as well as the Burklin-Wolf Rieslings are regular visitors to my cellar, I've stopped and bought from the Burklin-Wolfs on occasion. Magnificent estate!

Of the famous B's (Biffar, Basserman-Jordan, von Buhl, Bürklin-Wolf) in that area of the Weinstrasse (Wachenheim/Forst/Deidesheim) B-W has been, I think, the most consistently good the last two decades; at least the producer most pleasing to my taste.

Of course von Buhl has the coolest labels though  8)





Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

The new erato

I added a very few single bottles of 2012s from Schæfer-Frøhlich (Kupfergrube), Dønnhoff (Dellchen), both Nahe, and Wittmann (Brunnenhäuschen).

jlaurson

I have become very fond of the Alois GROSS wines from South (East) Styria... their Morillions (Chardonnay) especially. Really restored my faith in Chardonnay, which was left crushed after too many years in the US and not the pocket-depth to enter the Chardonnay range where the US produces the good stuff rather than the Oak-swill that bears that name.

http://www.gross.at/weine__lagen
http://gross.at/weine__lagen/sortimentsuebersicht/ratsch_morillon_startin

The new erato

Oak swill is the main problem. I drink mainly Chablis or the occasional reasonably oaked lower end Bourgogne Blanc when I crave Chardonnay.

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: The new erato on April 28, 2014, 03:30:32 AM
Oak swill is the main problem. I drink mainly Chablis or the occasional reasonably oaked lower end Bourgogne Blanc when I crave Chardonnay.


My American wine-loving friends gave up Chardonnay many years ago for the reasons you and Jens give (too oaky, too expensive for good bottles). Like me, when they choose an American white, it's usually Sauvignon blanc.

Sarge

the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

jlaurson

There is one 2011 Chardonnay (even by that name, not Morillion, because it was exclusively bottled for two restaurants, one in Vienna and one in Hamburg) from Gross that I am *this* close to getting the last 12 bottles. If and when acquired, and if and when one of you are in whatever town I live in then (Vienna for the time being), you must join me for a bottle or two.

The new erato

Quote from: jlaurson on April 28, 2014, 03:52:26 AM
There is one 2011 Chardonnay (even by that name, not Morillion, because it was exclusively bottled for two restaurants, one in Vienna and one in Hamburg) from Gross that I am *this* close to getting the last 12 bottles. If and when acquired, and if and when one of you are in whatever town I live in then (Vienna for the time being), you must join me for a bottle or two.
I have the Wachau on my preliminary schedule for summer 2015  :-) Been there thrice before, last time in 2008 so it is overdue. A favorite spot.

This year it is Northern Spain and the Douro + Madrid.