Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)

[M forever]

I particularly enjoy the recordings of Bach's instrumental works by Max Pommer and the Neues Bachisches Collegium Musicum Leipzig (mostly members of the Gewandhausorchester) which fuse playing on modern instruments and with a modern sonority and sensibility very intelligently, musically and seamlessly with musical insights gained from historical performance studies. They are included in an 11-CD box of instrumental and vocal works from Capriccio which can still be had for just $32.89 from Berkshire.

Here is the complete 3rd Brandenburg Concerto, with the 2nd movement fully played out in cadenzas (320kbps mp3, 28MB): http://preview.tinyurl.com/3be8tk

[prémont]

Leonhardt never recorded BWV1052 for Teldec so strictly there is no complete set to that effect.  Instead L's d minor was recorded earlier with Collegium Aureum (DHM), which does not sound quite the same as the one-player-per-part "Leonhart Consort."

Actually Leonhardt has recorded the BWV 1052 twice.
1) With Collegium Aureum for DHM.
2) With a selected Dutch instrumental group for Seon, as far as I remember released on CD by Sony.

[prémont]

My "complete" set has the BWV 1052 included in a performance by the Concentus Musicus Wien conducted by Harnoncourt. Just two extra violinists.

Q

This has been the official coupling of the complete Telefunken-set all the time (with Herbert Tachezi on harpsichord).

[FideLeo]

My "complete" set has the BWV 1052 included in a performance by the Concentus Musicus Wien conducted by Harnoncourt. Just two extra violinists.

Q

The VCM actually sounds quite a bit larger than the Leonhart consort in that recording.  Herbert Tachezi plays in broader tempi also compared to Leonhardt.

[FideLeo]

Actually Leonhardt has recorded the BWV 1052 twice.
1) With Collegium Aureum for DHM.
2) With a selected Dutch instrumental group for Seon, as far as I remember released on CD by Sony.

Yes, in the latter case coupled with a CPE Bach concerto, also in d minor.  Is the orchestra one-player-to--part?
The truly complete set by his student Bob van Asperen (Virgin) also uses a "quartet" plus violone for orchestral support.  Leonhardt himself plays the other solo part on the double concerti disc! 

[FideLeo]

What do you think of that Van Asperen set? 



Q

Not immediately likeable like the Leonhardt, since van Asperen pushes things a bit here
and there, but ultimately convincing due to the integrity of his artistic vision.  Not to
mention an affordable price (for the reissue you pictured.) 

[prémont]

Yes, in the latter case coupled with a CPE Bach concerto, also in d minor.  Is the orchestra one-player-to--part?

No, as far as I remember it is scored something like 4,3,3,2,1. Got it on vinyl some years ago, transcribed it to CD maybe five years ago, and gave the LP to a friend, so I don´t own the cover any more. And foolishly didn´t preserve the information about the players. I think it is a more "elegant" interpretation than the one with Collegium Aureum.

[FideLeo]

No, as far as I remember it is scored something like 4,3,3,2,1. Got it on vinyl some years ago, transcribed it to CD maybe five years ago, and gave the LP to a friend, so I don´t own the cover any more. And foolishly didn´t preserve the information about the players. I think it is a more "elegant" interpretation than the one with Collegium Aureum.

Thank you for the information - I might obtain it if I see it somewhere, as it appears to be OOP at the moment.  His performance with CA is quite available though.  Given the fact that Bach performed these concerti at the Cafe Zimmermann, an orchestra of 4, 3, 3, 2, 1 seems rather large.  Over the years I have gravitated towards the OPPP versions and these includes the Cafe Zimmermann recordings on Alpha.

[Que]

Thank you for the information - I might obtain it if I see it somewhere, as it appears to be OOP at the moment.  His performance with CA is quite available though.  Given the fact that Bach performed these concerti at the Cafe Zimmermann, an orchestra of 4, 3, 3, 2, 1 seems rather large.  Over the years I have gravitated towards the OPPP versions and these includes the Cafe Zimmermann recordings on Alpha.

OPPP ?   

Q

[FideLeo]

OPPP ?   

Q

One Player Per Part 

[Que]

Not immediately likeable like the Leonhardt, since van Asperen pushes things a bit here
and there, but ultimately convincing due to the integrity of his artistic vision.  Not to
mention an affordable price (for the reissue you pictured.) 

I got this last week, and I liked it much more than I had expected!
An excellent set: clear, bright and incisive playing. Like fl. traverso mentioned they push things in the faster movements, which can be very catchy but is at times also a bit "Bach on a trip"! Ultimately, I don't think this could use more intimacy and is emotionally a bit too detached. But a very good set, which I will occasionally revisit with pleasure. Recommended as an additional set.

Just sampled the second Hogwood cd above.  Seems that Leonhardt's is a bit more pronounced and Hogwood's is a bit more blended.  I also think I like the sound more of the actual harpsichord that Leonhardt is banging on.

It does not happen often, but I'm reconsidering and retracting my earlier positive comments on this! 
I had always regretted missing out on the Hogwood/Rousset cycle, having previously a positive impression of it and enjoying the issue with the 3-4 harpsichord concertos very much.
I recently got the reissue above and on repeated listening, it disappoints. I think Bill (Bogey) hit the nail on the head. Hogwoods accompaniment is too bland and basically very fussy. The performance is not sufficiently focused.

Q

[FideLeo]

I got this last week, and I liked it much more than I had expected!
An excellent set: clear, bright and incisive playing. Like fl. traverso mentioned they push things in the faster movements, which can be very catchy but is at times also a bit "Bach on a trip"! Ultimately, I don't think this could use more intimacy and is emotionally a bit too detached. But a very good set, which I will occasionally revisit with pleasure. Recommended as an additional set.

It's good to read feedback on previous recs.  I agree that van Asperen's set is emotionally detached, but it has plenty of "Lust des Spiels" to offer -- in-movement tempo and rhythmic inflections are subtle but frequent, if only the listeners can catch them!  As soon as one tunes in with the wavelength, it's a joy ride all the way to the end. One may say it's more "leonhardt" than Leonhardt, and its charm is a kind that one simply doesn't get from musicians from other countries, especially France and Italy where the boil is sometimes too close to the surface. 

[dave b]

I have the Brandenburg Concertos on two CDs, Boston Baroque, Martin Perlman. Telarc.  This seems to be a good recording. Are there any that stand out as being better? I don't know what it is but most of my posts are concerned with asking what are the "best" recordings, just to be sure I don't miss anything for certain special pieces. I am still quite a novice re classical music and the recommendations I get here are really helpful, from those "in the know". And I realize that while these may be very subjective calls, there is usually, nonetheless, some consensus that this or that orchestra performs this or that piece best. Thanks in advance for all the recommendations

[Sergeant Rock]

I have the Brandenburg Concertos on two CDs, Boston Baroque, Martin Perlman. Telarc.  This seems to be a good recording. Are there any that stand out as being better? I don't know what it is but most of my posts are concerned with asking what are the "best" recordings, just to be sure I don't miss anything for certain special pieces. I am still quite a novice re classical music and the recommendations I get here are really helpful, from those "in the know". And I realize that while these may be very subjective calls, there is usually, nonetheless, some consensus that this or that orchestra performs this or that piece best. Thanks in advance for all the recommendations

Actually, in this forum there is rarely consensus. We're a damn bunch of individualists who don't cotton to any pinko concepts of solidarity and commonality 

Me, I've always loved Benjamin Britten's Bach Brandenburgs (probably because I'm a poet and love alliteration  )

For a HIP version, the Linde Consort satisfies.

I'm not claiming either is the "best." I don't think such a thing exists.

Sarge

[prémont]

I have the Brandenburg Concertos on two CDs, Boston Baroque, Martin Perlman. Telarc.  This seems to be a good recording. Are there any that stand out as being better? I don't know what it is but most of my posts are concerned with asking what are the "best" recordings, just to be sure I don't miss anything for certain special pieces. I am still quite a novice re classical music and the recommendations I get here are really helpful, from those "in the know". And I realize that while these may be very subjective calls, there is usually, nonetheless, some consensus that this or that orchestra performs this or that piece best. Thanks in advance for all the recommendations

Perlman´s recording is in my opinion a rather good middle of the road HIP-performance. Not the most individual, though, but this may be an advantage.

[DavidW]

just to be sure I don't miss anything for certain special pieces.

If that is your top priority you might be best served with a recording that has excellent sound quality and good position of the microphones.  Shouldn't be a problem with the recording that you have.

If by miss anything, you didn't mean the music, but some sense of feeling or depth, that's entirely subjective as you mentioned and well I suggest Britten and Harnoncourt for contrasting views that might go well with what you have.  I personally prefer zippy HIP, but you already have that covered don't you?

[dave b]

By "missing anything" I mean only this: That suppose 85 out of every 100 experienced classical music listeners all agree that an ASMF recording of a certain piece is the best one they have heard, in their own experience. And while this is subjective, it is a subjectivity that means something, because we have so many liking one particular recording above all the others. And I am here with a Argentina Junior Symphony recording of that same piece, and I don't know anything about Academy of St Martin in the Fields. So the experienced folks tell me about it and it opens up a window. Or there is a NY Philharmonic rendering of something of Mozart's and I have some other recording, when the vast majority of long-time listeners say that the Vienna Philharmonic is the one to listen to because of this or that reason. So these subjective opinions actually become more than subjective because of the sheer number of people who are voicing these subjective opinions. I asked this same question re Resphigi's Pines of Rome and got responses about ensembles I had never heard of, so it was great. I do the same thing especially in the area of biography, where I would never pick a book off the shelf in a bookstore re biography of, say, Lincoln, only to find out later that that biography is the worst of the hundreds written, according to a poll of the world's top 100 historians. Nowthis doesn't mean that these opinions are infallible, but the more people that prefer a certain recording, the better the chances that there is something of quality there. So it seems subjective but it becomes a kind of "mass subjectivity" when so many folks recommend the same thing. I have learned quite a bit in the last fifteen minutes about these different recordings. Thanks to all.

[Don]

By "missing anything" I mean only this: That suppose 85 out of every 100 experienced classical music listeners all agree that an ASMF recording of a certain piece is the best one they have heard, in their own experience.

For frequently recorded works, 85% never happens.  Regardless, my favored versions are Goebel and Pinnock.  However, there are many others that are close behind (such as the Perlman).  Generally, I don't think well of modern instrument sets, but I do have the Britten and enjoy it very much.

[dave b]

The more I think about it and read the responses, the more I think that maybe there is no consensus or at least not usually except in very broad terms e.g. the Berlin Philharmonic is a great orchestra. But maybe there are 20 great recordings in existence, each with a slight emphasis that is different from the rest, and I am beginning to see this, that it is more subjective than I first thought. And maybe I am making this harder than it is . Sit back and relax and enjoy the music instead of doing so much research on it. And for the most part, I do. Every once in awhile I will play something well-known and wonder, I wonder what the GMG folks think about this?

[Gurn Blanston]

I have the Brandenburg Concertos on two CDs, Boston Baroque, Martin Perlman. Telarc.  This seems to be a good recording. Are there any that stand out as being better? I don't know what it is but most of my posts are concerned with asking what are the "best" recordings, just to be sure I don't miss anything for certain special pieces. I am still quite a novice re classical music and the recommendations I get here are really helpful, from those "in the know". And I realize that while these may be very subjective calls, there is usually, nonetheless, some consensus that this or that orchestra performs this or that piece best. Thanks in advance for all the recommendations

I have relatively few recordings of these to compare, but the set you already have is the one I grab most often....



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