Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)

[aligreto]

JS Bach: Brandenburg Concerto No. 4 [Britten]





Modern flutes instead of recorders, particularly in this work, I can no longer tolerate in my golden years, unless the performances are exceptional. Coupled with an overall saccharine approach, to my ears, in these concertos I am afraid it is now time for a cull here.

[prémont]

Modern flutes instead of recorders, particularly in this work, I can no longer tolerate in my golden years, unless the performances are exceptional. Coupled with an overall saccharine approach, to my ears, in these concertos I am afraid it is now time for a cull here.

I see where you come from, but being a Brandenburg concerto completist I would never dream of culling Brittens recording. Most of the soloists are legendary (Ifor James, David Mason, Richard Adeney, Philip Ledger, Emanuel Hurwitz et.c.). 

Which modern instruments recordings do you consider exceptional?

[aligreto]

JS Bach: Brandenburg Concerto No. 6 [Britten]





Concerto No. 6 suffers from the thick, heavy textures of the modern instruments because of the sonorities of the instruments being so closely related. Perhaps some thinning out of the instrumentation may have solved the problem [one can barely listen to the slow movement]. This CD, like the 1-4 set above, will also be culled (even if it does disappoint our good colleague (premont).

[aligreto]

I see where you come from, but being a Brandenburg concerto completist I would never dream of culling Brittens recording. Most of the soloists are legendary (Ifor James, David Mason, Richard Adeney, Philip Ledger, Emanuel Hurwitz et.c.). 

Which modern instruments recordings do you consider exceptional?

Unfortunately I really cannot listen to those Britten presentations any more. I did have a tolerance for them at one time but I never really liked them. Perhaps I am just getting more brutal in keeping/culling choices as I get older.

The reference I made above to above was the Busch cycle....





....and yes, before anyone jumps in I acknowledge that this is not a modern recording even though it is played on modern instruments.

[Jo498]

I have both Busch and Britten in boxes, not sure if I ever listened to the former (got that box for chamber music, obviously) and I recall that I was not that impressed with Britten while being aware that it is rated pretty highly. My favorite (and in fact the only other modern instrument I completely have on CD) modern instrument recording that I could live with as my only recording of the music, is Leppard's. It's only about 10 year or so later than Britten, but stylistically much closer to "modern" (i.e. last ca.40 years HIPish) recordings.

[prémont]

The reference I made above to above was the Busch cycle....



....and yes, before anyone jumps in I acknowledge that this is not a modern recording even though it is played on modern instruments.

JS Bach: Brandenburg Concerto No. 6 [Britten]



Concerto No. 6 suffers from the thick, heavy textures of the modern instruments because of the sonorities of the instruments being so closely related. Perhaps some thinning out of the instrumentation may have solved the problem [one can barely listen to the slow movement]. This CD, like the 1-4 set above, will also be culled (even if it does disappoint our good colleague (premont).

I think there is a similar problem with thick and heavy textures in Busch's sixth concerto, since he - like Britten - uses more players per part for this concerto. This  kind of scoring wasn't that uncommon right up to about 1965. But I also prefer the Busch set to the Britten set, particularly concertos 1,2 and 4.

[aligreto]

I have both Busch and Britten in boxes, not sure if I ever listened to the former (got that box for chamber music, obviously) and I recall that I was not that impressed with Britten while being aware that it is rated pretty highly. My favorite (and in fact the only other modern instrument I completely have on CD) modern instrument recording that I could live with as my only recording of the music, is Leppard's. It's only about 10 year or so later than Britten, but stylistically much closer to "modern" (i.e. last ca.40 years HIPish) recordings.

Yes, I also have the Leppard set but that is on LP. I like the Leppard cycle, I find the tempi on the slower side but the music is well played. At the moment I do not need to cull my vinyl so he remains untouched.

[aligreto]

I think there is a similar problem with thick and heavy textures in Busch's sixth concerto, since he - like Britten - uses more players per part for this concerto. This  kind of scoring wasn't that uncommon right up to about 1965. But I also prefer the Busch set to the Britten set, particularly concertos 1,2 and 4.

Yes indeed, I would agree with you on every point. The sixth was a particular problem with regard to texture in in older, big band type presentations. How the fourth and the sixth concertos are presented has long been an acid test for me when listening to a Brandenburg Concertos cycle that I have not previously heard.

[aligreto]

JS Bach: Brandenburg Concertos [Tafelmusik]





I have always thought that this was a weak set when compared with other Tafelmusik performances that I have heard. Plodding is unkind but perhaps somewhat uninspired is more appropriate. There was not much of a spark in the performances but Nos. 4 and 5 would be an exception to this. The solo playing of Steele-Perkins in No. 2 is not always of the highest calibre with him missing a number of those higher register notes.

This set that will be culled from my collection.

[aukhawk]

JS Bach: Brandenburg Concerto No. 6 [Britten]

Concerto No. 6 suffers from the thick, heavy textures of the modern instruments because of the sonorities of the instruments being so closely related. Perhaps some thinning out of the instrumentation may have solved the problem [one can barely listen to the slow movement]. This CD, like the 1-4 set above, will also be culled (even if it does disappoint our good colleague (premont).

I do like the harpsichord solo in No.5 though - probably the best of any I've heard.  For about 50 years I always thought it was Britten himself playing this but was corrected upthread - Philip Ledger.

[Jo498]

I think the 5th concerto can take more different approaches (inkl. modern piano like Edwin Fischer and others) and still "work" than the others. For me even modern piano is less of a problem than the poor balances in 3 and 6 with large bodies of strings or the recorder vs. flute problem in the 4th, not even to begin with the brass/woodwind mixtures of the first two.

[aligreto]

Yes, indeed, like so much of JS Bach's wonderful music there is so much that each of us can and do take for ourselves. That is one of the wonders of his wonderful music. And so it is in the Brandenburg Concertos. Interpretations can be revelatory but can also impair the enjoyment of a work, particularly if it is important to us. I suppose that is why I am culling at the moment. I have sets that are far more appealing and enjoyable in this music to me.

[prémont]

I think the 5th concerto can take more different approaches (inkl. modern piano like Edwin Fischer and others) and still "work" than the others. For me even modern piano is less of a problem than the poor balances in 3 and 6 with large bodies of strings or the recorder vs. flute problem in the 4th, not even to begin with the brass/woodwind mixtures of the first two.

I tend to agree with this. Generally the balance is more natural though, when period instruments are used. With modern instruments I find the trumpet to be the most difficult instrument to balance, at least on recordings. And also a too big string section may drown the harpsichord.

[prémont]

Yes, indeed, like so much of JS Bach's wonderful music there is so much that each of us can and do take for ourselves. That is one of the wonders of his wonderful music. And so it is in the Brandenburg Concertos. Interpretations can be revelatory but can also impair the enjoyment of a work, particularly if it is important to us. I suppose that is why I am culling at the moment. I have sets that are far more appealing and enjoyable in this music to me.

I do not see different musicians appproach to the Brandenburg concertos as a restriction but rather as some kind of kaleidoscopic opulence. Each set has its strengths and weaknesses, and I can't  recall a set (I have heard a lot) which severely impaired the enjoyment of the music, But of course there are sets I prefer to others.

[vers la flamme]

I have only one complete set: Hogwood/AAM. No complaints, but I've never fell in love with the Brandenburgs, and maybe the recording has something to do with it...? Don't know. I also have Pinnock/English Concert doing just the two F majors and the G major. I might like that one marginally better than the Hogwood, but that's it.

Two I'm curious about are Britten/ECO (I'm OK with non-HIP Bach generally speaking) and Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin (sans conductor...?)—I'll try and check out both and see if it's time for a new Brandenburg set.

[aligreto]

I have only one complete set: Hogwood/AAM. No complaints, but I've never fell in love with the Brandenburgs, and maybe the recording has something to do with it...? Don't know. I also have Pinnock/English Concert doing just the two F majors and the G major. I might like that one marginally better than the Hogwood, but that's it.

Two I'm curious about are Britten/ECO (I'm OK with non-HIP Bach generally speaking) and Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin (sans conductor...?)—I'll try and check out both and see if it's time for a new Brandenburg set.

I would consider the Hogwood to be a good cycle. The Britten will be a very different sound. Perhaps that might do it for you. If no, then it is definitely the music itself that does not appeal to you.

[aligreto]

I do not see different musicians appproach to the Brandenburg concertos as a restriction but rather as some kind of kaleidoscopic opulence. Each set has its strengths and weaknesses, and I can't  recall a set (I have heard a lot) which severely impaired the enjoyment of the music, But of course there are sets I prefer to others.

Yes, I would generally agree with this [with the possible exception of the Britten above  ] but what to do with music [not just the Brandenburgs] that is not listened to in years and is now taking up valuable shelf space? I would, in an ideal world, like to keep them for reference but unfortunately I am now getting too tight for storage.

[aukhawk]

I threw away all my jewel cases and just kept the CDs** wrapped in their inserts - I would estimate an eightfold reduction in space used.

** I never play them - don't even have a CD player - all stored on HD - but I do sometimes like to refer to the booklets.

Two I'm curious about are Britten/ECO (I'm OK with non-HIP Bach generally speaking) and Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin (sans conductor...?)—I'll try and check out both and see if it's time for a new Brandenburg set.

For differing interpretations of the word "new" 

[Jo498]

I have only one complete set: Hogwood/AAM. No complaints, but I've never fell in love with the Brandenburgs, and maybe the recording has something to do with it...? Don't know. I also have Pinnock/English Concert doing just the two F majors and the G major. I might like that one marginally better than the Hogwood, but that's it.

Two I'm curious about are Britten/ECO (I'm OK with non-HIP Bach generally speaking) and Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin (sans conductor...?)—I'll try and check out both and see if it's time for a new Brandenburg set.

Akademie für Alte Musik is a very good set, somewhat more "modern" HIP than Hogwood (and wasn't Hogwood using some early/alternative versions for some of the concerti?) For modern instruments, Marriner and Leppard are considerably more "modern" than Britten but this also means that the difference to the more recent HIP recordings is not as strong.
I am only in love with the 5th and maybe the 3rd concerto but I like the rest as well.

[aligreto]

I threw away all my jewel cases and just kept the CDs** wrapped in their inserts - I would estimate an eightfold reduction in space used.

** I never play them - don't even have a CD player - all stored on HD - but I do sometimes like to refer to the booklets.

No, I could not do that. I did think of that but I like the display element of my CD library, just like my books. So I am suffering for my prejudices.
I also do not like the HD/computer music thing - it is just not for me. Having said that, I will not totally discard my culled discs. Those will be "kept" as I will copy them to my hard drive for reference but I will probably will rarely listen to them at best.