Bach's Orchestral Music (Brandenburgs, Suites & Concertos)

[prémont]

Yes, twenty or thirty years ago some of their tempi sounded absolutely bizarre, but after Il Giardino or Fasolis and several others, today MAK sounds quite more conventional. 

Yes, we can not complain, - today we can have recordings of the Brandenburgs meeting any style you can imagine.

Have you heard this:

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Johann-Sebastian-Bach-1685-1750-Brandenburgische-Konzerte-Nr-1-6/hnum/1455303

or this:

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Johann-Sebastian-Bach-1685-1750-Brandenburgische-Konzerte-Nr-1-6/hnum/2865132

[prémont]

Naxos is usually thought of as offering adequate recordings, but rarely those of the highest order.  However, this one has all the characteristics which I look for in these works: bright tempi, original instruments, good soloists and a balanced ensemble sound -

[asin]B000I2IUTI[/asin]

This I would call a nice middle of the road HIP intrepretation without special characteristics, not unsimilar the recordings of Tafelmusic and Boston Baroque.

[prémont]

What I heard was not a rumor, but the recording.  Overall I consider the tempi slower than I prefer, that said, for a "historical" recording his is probably about as good as it gets.

I've spent most of this morning listening to a variety of recordings and have come up with three that I think are the best according to my (granted, somewhat unusual) taste:

Pinnock, English Consort
Cafe Zimmermann
Abbado, Orchestra Mozart

Regarding Abbado, the more I listen to it, especially as compared to others, the more I find it pleasing.

I have not listened to Klemperer´s recording recently, but I remember that it is equally lively as Pinnock´s. I admit that liveliness and absolute tempo are different concepts.

[dave b]

I wonder what Bach had in mind for the tempo it "should" be played in? Or did he leave it an open question?

[Opus106]

Your question reminded me, all of a sudden, of Gardiner's notes (PDF) to his recording, which has been sitting in my computer waiting to be read for Bach knows how long! It may or may not answer your question, by the way, although you may find it useful to learn more about the works and their history.

[dave b]

Thanks very much.

[prémont]

I wonder what Bach had in mind for the tempo it "should" be played in?

Tempo giusto, without doubt.

[Wakefield]

I often do not care for the natural horns in these works, which almost always sound "hooty" and too robust, not blending well with the rest of the ensemble.  In #1, I can tell within a few seconds if the recording will please me or not.  Pinnock is good, Hogwood less so, and Il Giardino Armonico I actually find not to my taste at all in #1, - but nicer in the other works, #5 for example I find very nice.

My preferences may not be in the majority, and while I am generally a PI aficionado, there are specific aspects in some of those ensembles which I do not care for.

Yes, it's quite difficult to find a performance completely suited to our taste in every concerto. Maybe the only solution would be to record our own version.   

[prémont]

Yes, it's quite difficult to find a performance completely suited to our taste in every concerto. Maybe the only solution would be to record our own version.   

If you have got it in you head, you do not need to record it, unless you want others to hear it.

[Wakefield]

Well, the style of Abbado´s second Brandenburg set (the one in question) is not that different from Pinnock´s style, except that modern instruments are used.

I listened to Abbado some months ago, when I purchased his set and I have never tried again. I don't recall any remarkable virtue about it. On the contrary, I consider Pinnock (his Archiv recording, I mean) one of the best versions that I have. That said, probably they aren't that different "stylistically" speaking. 

[Wakefield]

If you have got it in you head, you do not need to record it, unless you want others to hear it.

I don't know, call me "materialist", but the idea of "performance" implies some exterior activity, IMO. That said, I could accept that any possible interpretation it's already contained in the score itself (a kind of musical platonism, if you want). 

[Geo Dude]

Well, there you go - those qualities are the ones that I find particularly ugly in these works.   A graceful embrace of the music with a light quality, an unhurried but certainly not sluggish, tempo is how I prefer hearing them played.  This was what struck me immediately about the Abbado recording that grabbed my attention.

You may also like the Tafelmusik recording, then.  On the other hand, my barometer for light and unhurried may be different than yours, so I do recommend sampling.  I like them because they're just fast enough to push past middle of the road but don't seem to push tempos just for the sake of doing it.  That said, given your tastes I do recommend that you stay away from the I Barocchisti recording.

[Xenophanes]

I have a couple of different recordings of Brandenburg Concertos and would be interested in what others recommend. Thanks in advance. I especially value the opinions of the "old timers" here, although I am one myself in age only---but I am only a novice in the area of classical music, even though I have been listening for years. I find it an endless area of exploration.

My favorite is the old recording with Karl Ristenpart and the Chamber Orchestra of the Saar. I had it on LP, but now have it in a Bach set with The Art of the Fugue, the 4 Orchestral Suites,  and some other concertos.

http://www.amazon.com/Brandenburg-Cons-Orchestra-Cello-etc/dp/B00004XROP/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1370221404&sr=1-1&keywords=bach+brandenburg+concertos+ristenpart

For just the Brandenburg concertos, I like the old set with Trevor Pinnock, but he has a newer one.

[Mandryka]

I don't know, call me "materialist", but the idea of "performance" implies some exterior activity, IMO. That said, I could accept that any possible interpretation it's already contained in the score itself (a kind of musical platonism, if you want). 

That's like musical fundamentalism. You know, the idea that all and only permissible behaviour is consistent with what was intended by the authors of the canonical texts.

[aukhawk]

If you have got it in you head, you do not need to record it, unless you want others to hear it.

Plus you have the advantage of random access, which you definitely don't get in a concert performance.
A recording, especially if stored on HD, is a halfway house, more or less - eg it's easy to skip bits you don't like so much, which is also something you can't do in a concert.

[prémont]

My favorite is the old recording with Karl Ristenpart and the Chamber Orchestra of the Saar. I had it on LP, but now have it in a Bach set with The Art of the Fugue, the 4 Orchestral Suites,  and some other concertos.

http://www.amazon.com/Brandenburg-Cons-Orchestra-Cello-etc/dp/B00004XROP/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1370221404&sr=1-1&keywords=bach+brandenburg+concertos+ristenpart

For just the Brandenburg concertos, I like the old set with Trevor Pinnock, but he has a newer one.

Agreed. See post 33 in this very thread.

[NJ Joe]

Can anyone recommend a modern instrument version of the Brandenburgs? I currently own Pinnock 1982 and Harnoncourt period instrument versions, and was thinking about adding a modern instrument version.

[Ken B]

Can anyone recommend a modern instrument version of the Brandenburgs? I currently own Pinnock 1982 and Harnoncourt period instrument versions, and was thinking about adding a modern instrument version.

Best advice: rethink. There are still good HIP ones you lack. If you insist then Britten is gorgeous. Totally wrong, a crime against musicology, an affront to the shade of St Leonhardt, but gorgeous. The Scottish Chamber orch is good. If you see the Karajan back away and then run as far as you can.

[kishnevi]

Agreed about you missing out on good HIP ones (English Baroque Soloists and Concerto Italiano come to mind right off the bat);  but if you really want an MI performance,  Britten is excellent; or go for Chailly/Gewandhaus.

[NJ Joe]

Thanks guys. I certainly wouldn't want to affront St. Leonhardt's shade!  Let me ask you:  how would you rate your recommendations compared to the ones I own (Pinnock, Harnoncourt)? And also, what do you think of this one: