Vincent d'Indy (1851-1931)!

[tr. pianist]

Bulldog,
In German translation they spell it Weinberg and in English it is Veinberg.

Myaskovsky needs ya sound. I think in English it is Myaskovsky. Some people thnk it should be Miaskovsky.
In Russian instead of ya there is one letter. я

[Bulldog]

Bulldog,
In German translation they spell it Weinberg and in English it is Veinberg.

Myaskovsky needs ya sound. I think in English it is Myaskovsky. Some people thnk it should be Miaskovsky.
In Russian instead of ya there is one letter. я

Thanks for the explanation.

[Maciek]

Actually, before WWII the man signed himself Wajnberg, so it would make sense to spell his name that way and only that way and no other way. In fact, I think I'll start a separate thread to maul anyone who thinks otherwise.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Actually, before WWII the man signed himself Wajnberg, so it would make sense to spell his name that way and only that way and no other way. In fact, I think I'll start a separate thread to maul anyone who thinks otherwise.

Help! M(aciek) forever.

[Maciek]

According to Per Skans (who was perhaps channeling M's tone here):

Weinberg is correct, all other spellings are wrong! Weinberg grew up and spent his first twenty years in Poland, where the Latin alphabet is used, and he and his family spelt the name exactly this way. Its origin is German/Yiddish. Any other spelling in the Latin alphabet must thus be avoided!

(source)

Ha! That will teach you not to trust Wikipedia, silly people!

(I have to say this goes against my knowledge of how names with the -ein ending were usually spelt in Poland at that time... Who shall I trust??)

OK, now I would like to officially apologize for disrupting the Vincent d'Indy discussion and promise to continue all ensuing Weinberg discussion in the Weinberg thread.

[The new erato]

I buy two discs of every Weinberg/Vainberg disc buy so I am able to file it (under W and V) and find it. Smart move of the record companies, this.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I buy two discs of every Weinberg/Vainberg disc buy so I am able to file it (under W and V) and find it. Smart move of the record companies, this.

[Maciek]

You should buy four copies, so that you can also file him in your cyrillic and Hebrew sections (spellings given here)

D'Indy had Polish pupils as well. Stanisław Kazuro, Marceli Popławski, Henryk Opieński (and probably others). Completely forgotten figures, though I think Acte Prealable has released some Opienski songs recently.

[Superhorn]

   D'Indy also wrote a couple of operas, which I believe have yet to be recorded.
The plot of " L'Etranger" (The Stranger) sounds interesting.
  Possibly sonductors such as Jean Yves Ossonce or Michel  Plasson etc could record it.

[pjme]

It would  be a good thing to have these works - complete- in good sound.

"Le chant de la cloche" ( The song of the bell) op. 18 - a "légende dramatique" ( more an extended cantata/oratorio)

"Fervaal" "action musicale" op. 40 ( propably the most Wagnerian of d'Indy's works)
"l'Etranger" op . 53 "action musicale en deux actes"

Then there is the "drame sacré" "La légende de saint Christophe" op. 67 , a major,very ambitious score. More a strange cross of oratorio,Mediaeval mystery-play and "drame antique". Gregorian chant,melodrama, monody and complex counterpoint combine in an artistic , at times sarcastic pamphlet..that even quotes modern times (ca 1910) - and leaves no theme untouched: artistic, musical, political,social, racial. Apparently the music of (young) Ravel is mocked.
d'Indy, who was a notorious anti-semite, wants one of the characters,the "King of gold" to be dressed as a Jewish banker, in a three piece suit!
He uses lavishly Wagnerian "Leitmotive", César Franck and even Weber, Beethoven and Bach are "quoted". A large orchestra ( with 6 saxophones "to help the chorus") , a multitude of themes and "Gregorian cantilenas" are necessary to shape this " Quest for God". ( I use Leon Vallas ' ca 1950 biography of d'Indy).
Well, even if d'Indy is a grumpy Nationalist,a patriot with unhealthy ideas and megalomaniac tendencies...I'd love to hear "Saint Christophe".!

As for the story:( from Wiki)
According to the account in the Golden Legend by Jacobus de Voragine,[6] Christopher was a Canaanite 12 cubits (18 ft) tall and with a fearsome face. While serving the king of Canaan, he took it into his head to go and serve the greatest king there was. He went to the king who was reputed to be the greatest, but one day he saw the king cross himself at the mention of the devil. On thus learning that the king feared the devil, he departed to look for the devil. He came across a band of marauders, one of whom declared himself to be the devil, so Christopher decided to serve him. But when he saw his new master avoid a wayside cross and found out that the devil feared Christ, he left him and enquired from people where to find Christ. He met a hermit who instructed him in the Christian faith. Christopher asked him how he could serve Christ. When the hermit suggested fasting and prayer, Christopher replied that he was unable to perform that service. The hermit then suggested that because of his size and strength Christopher could serve Christ by assisting people to cross a dangerous river, where many were perishing in the attempt. The hermit promised that this service would be pleasing to Christ.

After Christopher had performed this service for some time, a little child asked him to take him across the river. During the crossing, the river became swollen and the child seemed as heavy as lead, so much that Christopher could scarcely carry him and found himself in great difficulty. When he finally reached the other side, he said to the child: "You have put me in the greatest danger. I do not think the whole world could have been as heavy on my shoulders as you were." The child replied: "You had on your shoulders not only the whole world but him who made it. I am Christ your king, whom you are serving by this work." The child then vanished.

Christopher later visited the city of Lycia and there comforted the Christians who were being martyred. Brought before the local king, he refused to sacrifice to the pagan gods. The king tried to win him by riches and by sending two beautiful women to tempt him. Christopher converted the women to Christianity, as he had already converted thousands in the city. The king ordered him to be killed. Various attempts failed, but finally Christopher was decapitated.


After the mystic -politico/religious extasy & excesses of "Saint Christophe" d'Indy wrote a light "comédie musicale", an operetta "Le rêve de Cinyras" op. 80!

Peter

ps The following note may be of use....

Vincent d'Indy and His World
Notes,  June, 1998  by Brian J. Hart

Andrew Thomson has designed his book on Vincent d'Indy to correct serious misunderstandings of one of the central figures of French musical life in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Composer, pedagogue, and conductor of international stature, d'Indy occupied a place of influence during the period from 1890 to 1914 second only to Debussy, and his single-minded dedication to his art earned him the respect and admiration of fellow musicians, even when they disliked his Franckian aesthetics and extreme-right politics. Since d'Indy's death in 1931, many scholars in France and abroad have allowed their indignation over the man's unpalatable social views - most notoriously his virulent anti-Semitism - to prejudice their judgment of the musician, dismissing him as a zealot and pedant who contributed nothing of lasting importance to his culture. To acknowledge an artist's eminence, however, is not ipso facto to excuse or endorse unacceptable beliefs, and one can condemn d'Indy's authoritarian politics and social bigotry while still conceding the beneficent aspects of his work as teacher and creative figure. Such is the intent of Thomson's book.

P.

[Dundonnell]

Don't push (y)our luck, Colin!

I have just found responses on the Chandos website forum to enquiries about future plans to record music by Malcolm Williamson and Richard Rodney Bennett.

Williamson-two operas are planned and-one day-the organ concerto(already available on Lyrita)

Bennett-none! This is absolutely infuriating Why on earth Chandos should issue a Bennett Volume 1 when they have no plans to issue more of his music is completely beyond me!

Very disappointing news from a label I do esteem.

Goes off to bed in the sulks

[vandermolen]

I have just found responses on the Chandos website forum to enquiries about future plans to record music by Malcolm Williamson and Richard Rodney Bennett.

Williamson-two operas are planned and-one day-the organ concerto(already available on Lyrita)

Bennett-none! This is absolutely infuriating Why on earth Chandos should issue a Bennett Volume 1 when they have no plans to issue more of his music is completely beyond me!

Very disappointing news from a label I do esteem.

Goes off to bed in the sulks

Also the Janis Ivanovs cycle on Campion fizzled out. Very annoying as one of his best works Symphony No 11 is still not on CD.

[The new erato]

Why on earth Chandos should issue a Bennett Volume 1 when they have no plans to issue more of his music is completely beyond me!

Perhaps they thought sales of vol 1 actually would make a vol 2 realistic?

[Dundonnell]

Also the Janis Ivanovs cycle on Campion fizzled out. Very annoying as one of his best works Symphony No 11 is still not on CD.

I suspect that was because of contractural problems between the company and Latvian Radio.

Regarding d'Indy, the forthcoming release of a cd of orchestral music by Hyperion looks as those it may overlap with the Chandos 'series'. That would be unfortunate.

[The new erato]

I suspect that was because of contractural problems between the company and Latvian Radio.

Regarding d'Indy, the forthcoming release of a cd of orchestral music by Hyperion looks as those it may overlap with the Chandos 'series'. That would be unfortunate.

With 3 Alwyn cycles I don't see how this could be a problem for you.

[Dundonnell]

With 3 Alwyn cycles I don't see how this could be a problem for you.

  Fair point! I always excuse Naxos when they duplicate repertoire because they are offering a cheap alternative.

It just seemed a little odd that when one waits for modern recordings of out of the way repertoire suddenly along come three companies(if we include Timpani as well) issuing the music around the same time

A bit like waiting for buses

[snyprrr]

I just got what promises to be something special: d'Indy's Complete SQs (+ Sextet!) by the Quatuor Joachim, on Calliope (OOP). I had been trying to borrow a fellow GMGer's copy, but, finally, it showed up on Ebay.

Of course d'Indy has a bad reputation, but, usually, that just means there's some great music underneath it all. The only other d'Indy I have is the old EMI disc (from their French series) which I've always liked.

I started out with (what I thought) was No.3, and, I was quite impressed with the autumnal feeling, and ready to pronounce a masterpiece, when I realized  was listening to No.2. Anyhow, then, No.2 unfolded with the surest grasp, and beguiling melodies. This is truly an awesomely put together, and professional (and I mean that positively) piece of work. Let me clarify: it is certainly old fashioned, and normal sounding music, by all means, but d'Indy has an,...mmm,...'authority', which is quite impressive. Plus, the melodic curves have maybe even a little of the Miaskovskian melancoly to them that is immediately appealing.

So I went straight for No.3, which, this morning, I can't recollect beyond last night. It did continue d'Indy's,...how can I say?,...'deepness' (I'm telling you this guy has some profound moments,...just absolutely rigorously crafted music (like Miaskov,...but, obviously, French!). I remember it sounding more old fashioned (coming from 1929), but, I will have to come back to it.

The late Sextet also continues the jolly rigorousness of the rest (this guy is like the happiest Reger you can imagine!). I do recall a few moments of rapturous, windy hilled impressionism, coupled with d'Indy's ubiquitous classicism.

Currently, I'm listening to No.1, after it's 12min first mvmt. Written in 1890, it actually sounds a little ahead of No.3 in terms of style. It surely doesn't sound like it was the direct inspiration of Franck's SQ (which, it appears clear that it was), and, I'm thinking this is a piece that will take a few listens. Already here in the slow mvmt I'm being slathered in a beautifully transparent and languid boat ride.



I am mightily impressed by this music, and the packaging reflects the nobility of the venture. The cover picture, which is shown on Amazon, of a backstage, French theater staircase, invites the listener into a rarified world. There is a whiff of late Faure here (though, only in spirit). The Quatuor Joachim (which, I can't tell if its the same QJ (or, JQ) that plays on a Koch/Reger disc, play wonderful, syrupy instruments in fully idiomatic readings. The whole production reeks of fin de siecle.

I am going to recommend this music right behind Faure, and right ahead of Saint-Saens. These 3 SQs can go head to head with the bulk of Late Romanticism and come out smelling very original indeed. I think d'Indy's sheer upstanded-ness is like a solid rock. He certainly has reams of integrity. There is nothing here that is less than Super High Quality. The 'obvious' masterpiece finds itself here locked behind a garden of delightful flower bundles, so that one must actually listen carefully, though the music seems to be straighforward. I'm just going to say that this set is some kind of high water mark,... for what, I don't know, but,...I don't think ANYONE out there could say a word against this music. It is well nigh perfect, with enough meat to satisfy, enough sweet, and enough vitamins and minerals, enough elusiveness as to not be obvious, but squarely in the perfect melodic appeal of the best music.



The other set, on Marco Polo, with the Kodaly (1 & 2) and New Budapest (3 & Quintet & Trio) is available, and cheap. I would recommend the Kodaly disc, for what promises to be an awesome hour. The Kodaly's style seems to be compatible with the QJ, so, I don't know how they would differ (btw- the sound on this Calliope release is drool worthy). There is also a No.1 by the Chilingirian (Hyperion), and a No.2 on some French label (with Quintet & Sonata ?). Either way, these d'Indy SQs are DaBomb!! and should be investigated by every serious lover.

[SonicMan46]

Snyprrr - assume that you're talking about the 2-CD set shown below (left)?  I'd love to get my hands on it but seems OOP! 

For me, just added the 3rd volume of the orchestral works on Chandos; the second volume seemed not be as well reviewed as the first, so decided to skip it for now - Rumon Gamba seems to do quite well w/ this music! 

 

[snyprrr]

Snyprrr - assume that you're talking about the 2-CD set shown below (left)?  I'd love to get my hands on it but seems OOP! 



 

Yes, I love that picture. It's a clear slimline, with that pic on the back inside also (and back outside!). The whole production is just really classy. I wouldn't be surprised if it comes back on Ebay, though. I tell ya, though, if you haven't heard these pieces, the Marco Polo set has stood the test of time. I was almost ready when this set came up.

The only problem is that this makes the rest of d'Indy's chamber output lodge in my imagination. The Sextet is only three mvmts, and much smaller (22mins) than the SQs. I wonder what form his other work takes. I hear good things about the Clarinet (Piano Trio),...was it Op.29? Trio No.2? Piano Quartet? Piano Quintet? Violin Sonata? Piano Sonata? He seems to have one piece in each of the major,...uh, is it 'genres'? Anyway, d'Indy is worth investigating further. This SQ set about makes me weep. Mighty works, all.

[The new erato]

I have that Caaliope set with another cover, and have been proclaiming its greatness on several occasions on this board. Sorry to hear it's OOP.