Charles Koechlin(1867-1950)

[Mirror Image]

I'm not usually the biggest fan of solo piano with the exception of the impressionists, and Koechlin's piano works are definitely worth investigating.  I prefer the piano version of the Persian Hours to the orchestral one.

Besides that, I haven't found much of his orchestral work that I did not like.

Why was he neglected? Probably not trendy enough--- he really came into his own as the "impressionist" style was on the wane.

I'm not a big fan of solo piano either, but Debussy, Ravel, and Villa-Lobos are probably my favorites in this genre. I'll have check his piano works out.

Anyway, his orchestral scores are amazing. He really had such great command of the orchestra and his attention to harmonic shading is simply fantastic. The Jungle Book is a current favorite of mine, but I'm really anxious to hear some of his other orchestral works. Do you own the Zinman recording of The Jungle Book? I listened to these recordings three times in a row last night. When I first heard this large cycle, it didn't make much of an impression on me, but revisiting it again many months later I have to say that I'm very impressed. Wonderful music. Why The Jungle Book isn't performed or recorded more often is unknown to me, it's a 20th Century masterpiece.

[cilgwyn]

It is a bit of a mystery to say the least!

[Mirror Image]

It is a bit of a mystery to say the least!

Yes, it is! Do you think, perhaps, that the work itself difficult to perform? I mean I think if the Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra can tackle this work, then an orchestra like the CSO, Royal Concertgebouw, etc. can breeze right through it --- technically speaking of course.

[cilgwyn]

I have the Zinman recording. I prefer it,but judging by allot of the reviews I have read they all  have their merits. One problem with rare works by Koechlin is when they are released on some 'small label',like the Sisyphe recording of 'Les Chants de Nectaire',for example. One minute it's there,leave it too long and it isn't. You have to grab it while you can. Although it's still available as a download. One of my favourite Koechlin 'albums' is the Hyperion cd 'Music for flute'. Although music like this doesn't have the 'glamour' of the big orchestral works and tends to get ignored. Hanssler are doing commendable work in bringing the work of this fantastic composer to worlwide attention. There is so much that remains unrecorded.

[Mirror Image]

Hanssler are doing commendable work in bringing the work of this fantastic composer to worlwide attention. There is so much that remains unrecorded.

I bought all the Hanssler recordings of the orchestral works (5 in all so far). I'm sure these are going to go out-of-print at some point, so, like you said, it's good to just grab them while you can. In regards to The Jungle Book, Hurwitz wrote a review on the other complete recording with Steuart Bedford conducting, but, as Hurwitz, points out there are some problems with this recording:

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=2220

P.S. I am in no way, shape, or form a fan of Hurwitz, but he does point to some issues in this recording, which I found troubling and reason enough not to buy it.

[cilgwyn]

I wouldn't have thought Koechlin's work would be that far beyond the scope of todays orchestra's. In his own era,yes. I think part of the problem might be that his music is so eclectic in scope and style. His range is so wild. You never know what to expect. Sometimes it's like Ravel,Stravinsky,Messiaen and even a bit of Ives and Varese all got thrown into the mix. Of course,I'm exaggerating a bit,but I don't think I have ever heard such a vast range of styles and techniques in one piece of music,except maybe Brian's 'Gothic Symphony',and that's relatively conservative by comparison. Koechlin strikes me as a kind of musical magpie,endlessy experimenting. 'The Jungle Book' isn't a good example I know,because of the time span over which the various parts of it were written; but maybe it's too damn adventurous and wide ranging for it's own good.

[cilgwyn]

I'm not exactly a fan of Hurwitz,but when he's not showing off too much he can have an interesting slant. As to this cd. I'm afraid I don't have this one. I must say I'm not that keen on 'live' recordings,particularly when it involves my 'Jungle Book' cycle being interrupted by applause,however brief. This is enough in itself to put me off.
I think the 'Marco Polo' and 'Zinman' recordings make a good contrast,although I think the Zinman has the 'edge' for me. Incidentally,what other recording do you possess (of the 'Jungle Book')?

[Mirror Image]

I wouldn't have thought Koechlin's work would be that far beyond the scope of todays orchestra's. In his own era,yes. I think part of the problem might be that his music is so eclectic in scope and style. His range is so wild. You never know what to expect. Sometimes it's like Ravel,Stravinsky,Messiaen and even a bit of Ives and Varese all got thrown into the mix. Of course,I'm exaggerating a bit,but I don't think I have ever heard such a vast range of styles and techniques in one piece of music,except maybe Brian's 'Gothic Symphony',and that's relatively conservative by comparison. Koechlin strikes me as a kind of musical magpie,endlessy experimenting. 'The Jungle Book' isn't a good example I know,because of the time span over which the various parts of it were written; but maybe it's too damn adventurous and wide ranging for it's own good.

Yes, his music is a hodgepodge of a lot of different styles, but the most consistent style that Koechlin made his name with was within Impressionism. His music always gives one the sense of something, but unlike Ravel or Debussy, he is quite unpredictable and you never know exactly where a piece of music is going to go. This is apart of his allure I think. His music, like that of Szymanowski, has this searching quality. It never does truly settle down into something that's comfortable or familiar. The Jungle Book, in my opinion, is the best introduction to Koechlin's music because of it's, as you say, adventurous and wide-ranging nature. I think anyone interested in 20th Century French music owes it to themselves to at least hear this massive, kaleidoscopic work.

[Mirror Image]

I'm not exactly a fan of Hurwitz,but when he's not showing off too much he can have an interesting slant. As to this cd. I'm afraid I don't have this one. I must say I'm not that keen on 'live' recordings,particularly when it involves my 'Jungle Book' cycle being interrupted by applause,however brief. This is enough in itself to put me off.
I think the 'Marco Polo' and 'Zinman' recordings make a good contrast,although I think the Zinman has the 'edge' for me. Incidentally,what other recording do you possess (of the 'Jungle Book')?

Yes, the live applause after the end of each piece is what turned me of to this specific recording. I only own Zinman's and Segerstam's, which the Segerstam as you probably know is incomplete. I think Zinman has the edge over Segerstam as well. I think the orchestra plays better and the audio quality has better clarity.

[cilgwyn]

Indeed,a musical magpie Koechlin may have been,but the astonishing thing is that he made it all his musical experiments hang together. Although,sadly the eclectic nature of his music could put some less adventurous people off. When people sit down to listen to Debussy or Ravel in a concert hall they know what they're going to get. Imagine if Koechlin had written 'La Valse' or 'Bolero'! He's a bit like a musical version of the proverbial loose cannon. Yet if you take the time to listen to his music carefully,there's not a note out of place. Like the 'Gothic Symphony',which I referred to earlier.far from being the product of an undisciplined eccentric,there is the feeling of inevitability,of a man who knows exactly what he's doing & where he's going.

[Mirror Image]

Indeed,a musical magpie Koechlin may have been,but the astonishing thing is that he made it all his musical experiments hang together. Although,sadly the eclectic nature of his music could put some less adventurous people off. When people sit down to listen to Debussy or Ravel in a concert hall they know what they're going to get. Imagine if Koechlin had written 'La Valse' or 'Bolero'! He's a bit like a musical version of the proverbial loose cannon. Yet if you take the time to listen to his music carefully,there's not a note out of place. Like the 'Gothic Symphony',which I referred to earlier.far from being the product of an undisciplined eccentric,there is the feeling of inevitability,of a man who knows exactly what he's doing & where he's going.

Exactly. Nothing is out-of-place in a Koechlin work. Everything makes perfect sense. I will say that there is a great subtlety to his music that those who aren't engaged listeners will clearly miss out on. There's just so much harmonic color and the way these shadings provide an undercurrent to the melodies is hypnotic.

Do you own the Hanssler series? If yes, I would curious to hear your impressions of it.

[Mirror Image]

Thanks for the info everyone, he does sound up my alley... I'll probably check youtube first.

haydnfan, here is a good bio on Koechlin whenever you have the time to read it:

Though his reputation as a composer has remained rather isolated in the decades since his death, Charles Koechlin enjoyed a prominent place in the French music scene in the first half of the twentieth century. Born in Paris on November 27, 1867, Koechlin began formal musical studies at the Paris Conservatory in 1890. His teachers there included Massenet and Fauré; the latter ultimately proved the greatest influence upon Koechlin's uncomplicated but colorful, mildly Impressionistic style. In 1918, Satie welcomed him into Les nouveaux jeunes, a short-lived collective of young French composers (including Roussel and Milhaud) that ultimately metamorphosed into Les Six.

In his lifetime, Koechlin was more widely known for his work as a theorist and teacher than for his own music. His writings include a multi-volume treatise on orchestration, one of the most extensive of its kind. Among his students were two members of Les Six, Germaine Tailleferre and Francis Poulenc, as well as film and television composer Lalo Schifrin. Koechlin's skill and reputation as an orchestrator were considerable. Saint-Saëns, Fauré, and Debussy entrusted to him the orchestration of a number of their own works, including most of Debussy's first ballet, Khamma (1911-1912). Koechlin traveled widely as a lecturer on music, including three tours in the United States. After a career that encompassed every aspect of French musical life, he died in Le Canadel, France, on New Year's Eve 1950.

While Koechlin's music is not as distinctive in its dramatic, structural, or formal profile as that of contemporaries like Debussy or Ravel, it nonetheless bears the stamp of an unusual personality. Many of his works are conspicuously sectional and almost improvisatory in the manner in which they unfold; his melodies in particular tend toward unrestricted, continual motion. Harmony and instrumental color are generally at the fore in Koechlin's music, which is perhaps most effective in the way it creates exquisitely shaded atmospheres. The composer wrote prolifically and for nearly every medium -- except, tellingly, for the operatic stage -- but carved out a quirky compositional niche that remains unique. Prefiguring multi-work "literary" cycles like American composer David Del Tredici's Alice in Wonderland series, Koechlin produced seven interrelated works based on Kipling's The Jungle Book. Perhaps unexpectedly, given his sober, messianic appearance, he also harbored a virtual mania for the cinema, which he translated into a number of works inspired by various silver-screen personalities. He celebrated the icons of Hollywood's Golden Age in works like Five Dances for Ginger [Rogers] (1937) and Epitaphe de Jean Harlow (1937), but his most stimulating muse was apparently English-German actress Lilian Harvey (1906-1968). Initially flattered by Koechlin's hommages, which included more than a hundred works, including two "Lilian Albums," Harvey eventually grew uneasy with his seeming obsession. She also enjoys a place of honor in what is likely the most famous (if not generally familiar) of Koechlin's works, the Seven Stars Symphony (1933). Neither astrological nor astronomical in inspiration, the symphony is instead a suite of tone poems, each an evocative portrait of a leading screen figure of the day: Douglas Fairbanks, Harvey, Greta Garbo, Clara Bow, Marlene Dietrich, Emil Jannings, and Charlie Chaplin.

Article taken from All Music Guide

[DavidW]

Thanks MI that was informative.  And I liked what I heard on youtube.  I think I'm going to have to buy a cd.

[Mirror Image]

Thanks MI that was informative.  And I liked what I heard on youtube.  I think I'm going to have to buy a cd.

You're welcome. I recommend The Jungle Book with Zinman and the Berlin Radio Symphony on RCA. It's the complete cycle, so it's a 2-CD set. Excellent performances and audio quality. It's out-of-print, but you'll probably find a used copy pretty cheaply.

[jowcol]

When you are done with Koechlin, you might wish to check out Markevitch, who seems to be the missing link between Stravinsky and Messiaen.  I've been listing to a lot of him lately-- particularly the Hymnes for Orchestra, but also Rebus and Icarus.  He mixes the dry Stravinsky objective sounds and rhythms with some of the abandon of Messiaen.

[Mirror Image]

When you are done with Koechlin, you might wish to check out Markevitch, who seems to be the missing link between Stravinsky and Messiaen.  I've been listing to a lot of him lately-- particularly the Hymnes for Orchestra, but also Rebus and Icarus.  He mixes the dry Stravinsky objective sounds and rhythms with some of the abandon of Messiaen.

Ah, but one is never truly "done" with composers we enjoy. I will check Markevitch out though.

[cilgwyn]

I'd also recommend the 'Seven Stars Symphony' for Koechlin at his most approachable. Beautiful music. The title is however a little misleading. This isn't a Korngold style evocation of stardom we're talking about here,this is something far more subtle and introspective. Very good for late night listening,although  parts of it are a little dissonant & taxing on the 'shell like'. But they're few and far between.

[Mirror Image]

I'd also recommend the 'Seven Stars Symphony' for Koechlin at his most approachable. Beautiful music. The title is however a little misleading. This isn't a Korngold style evocation of stardom we're talking about here,this is something far more subtle and introspective. Very good for late night listening,although  parts of it are a little dissonant & taxing on the 'shell like'. But they're few and far between.

Yes, I have been looking at this recording (w/ Judd and the BRSO), but it's out-of-print and very expensive.

[SonicMan46]

BOY!  This thread has almost doubled in size in a few days - I became interested in Koechlin a while back and have acquired a number of his recordings over the last few years; have not listened to many lately but enjoyed all - so, I'll just list below the ones I own currently and if anyone has an interest and wants more comments, let me give them a spin:

Clarinet Works w/ Altmann-Henschel on Hanssler
Flute Chamber Music w/ Ruhland-Tal on Hanssler
Le Docteur-Vers la Voute w/ Holliger-Stuttgart RSO on Hanssler
Les Bandar-Offrande w/ Holliger-Stuttgart RSO on Hanssler
Les Heures Persanes w/ Kathryn Stott on Chandos
Piano Quintet/SQ3 w/ Lavaud-Antigone SQ on Ar Re Se
Saxophone/Piano Works w/ Mondelchi-Stott on Chandos
String Quartets 1/2 w/ Ardeo Quartet on Ar Re Se

[Mirror Image]

BOY!  This thread has almost doubled in size in a few days - I became interested in Koechlin a while back and have acquired a number of his recordings over the last few years; have not listened to many lately but enjoyed all - so, I'll just list below the ones I own currently and if anyone has an interest and wants more comments, let me give them a spin:

Clarinet Works w/ Altmann-Henschel on Hanssler
Flute Chamber Music w/ Ruhland-Tal on Hanssler
Le Docteur-Vers la Voute w/ Holliger-Stuttgart RSO on Hanssler
Les Bandar-Offrande w/ Holliger-Stuttgart RSO on Hanssler
Les Heures Persanes w/ Kathryn Stott on Chandos
Piano Quintet/SQ3 w/ Lavaud-Antigone SQ on Ar Re Se
Saxophone/Piano Works w/ Mondelchi-Stott on Chandos
String Quartets 1/2 w/ Ardeo Quartet on Ar Re Se

You don't own The Jungle Book? These are Koechlin's most well-known compositions. Anyway, tell me about the two orchestral recordings you have on Hanssler and what you think about them. I'm anxious to hear your impressions of the music.