Charles Koechlin(1867-1950)

[Scarpia]

You've probably ordered more Koechlin recordings this week than the rest of North America combined.

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You've probably ordered more Koechlin recordings this week than the rest of North America combined.

So sad, but probably true.

There's a group on Facebook dedicated to Koechlin and I've been enjoying meeting some of these people who possess more knowledge than I do about his music. Some of these people have been listening to him for 40 years or more and it's always interesting to get their perspectives on the music that they love.

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I wonder how our fellow Brianite, Johan, feels about Koechlin's music?

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Here is an even better list, with opus numbers in order, of Koechlin's output:

http://imslp.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Charles_Koechlin

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Let's keep this puppy going...


B  U  M  P

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Does anyone know if Holliger is going to continue his Koechlin series?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I wonder how our fellow Brianite, Johan, feels about Koechlin's music?

I should have a serious listen to be able to say anything of interest. Watch this space...

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I should have a serious listen to be able to say anything of interest. Watch this space...

Do you own The Jungle Book?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Do you own The Jungle Book?

No, but I do Vers la Voûte étoilée, Docteur Fabritius and Heures persanes...

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No, but I do Vers la Voûte étoilée, Docteur Fabritius and Heures persanes...

You should definitely see if you can't track down Zinman's recording with the Berlin Radio Symphony on RCA. It's out-of-print, but I don't think you'll have a hard time finding a copy in the used market. I'm simply addicted to this work. It's massive (not a Gothic scale), but is essentially a collection of symphonic poems and a song cycle titled Three Poems for vocalists, chorus, and orchestra.

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I find it quite curious that RCA has let the original recording go out-of-print. It was reissued as an import, which interestingly contains the Seven Stars Symphony, but knowing how RCA cheapens their reissued products, it may be better to track the original recording down.

[snyprrr]

Here is an even better list, with opus numbers in order, of Koechlin's output:

http://imslp.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Charles_Koechlin

Actually, after Milhaud and Martinu, this list wasn't so bad.

His Piano Music output is manageable, and there is basically one Sonata a piece for violin, viola, and cello, the 3 SQs and one PQ, and poof!, that's it for the traditional stuff.

The winds is where it gets confusing, each instrument being treated to an inexplicable amount of 'Pieces' and Sonatas.

Then, there are a few,... not too many, harp/ or harpsichord ensemble pieces, and I think that does it for the Chamber Music.


I posted my comments about the SQs and PQ. I thought, before I heard him, that he was going to be the Perfect Impressionist Composer, but, I'm not sure I found that here. Don't get me wrong, they were impressive pieces, but I wasn't prepared for so much personality,... very Gothic sounding, perhaps? Satie + Honegger = Koechlin?

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Actually, after Milhaud and Martinu, this list wasn't so bad.

His Piano Music output is manageable, and there is basically one Sonata a piece for violin, viola, and cello, the 3 SQs and one PQ, and poof!, that's it for the traditional stuff.

The winds is where it gets confusing, each instrument being treated to an inexplicable amount of 'Pieces' and Sonatas.

Then, there are a few,... not too many, harp/ or harpsichord ensemble pieces, and I think that does it for the Chamber Music.


I posted my comments about the SQs and PQ. I thought, before I heard him, that he was going to be the Perfect Impressionist Composer, but, I'm not sure I found that here. Don't get me wrong, they were impressive pieces, but I wasn't prepared for so much personality,... very Gothic sounding, perhaps? Satie + Honegger = Koechlin?

I haven't heard any of Koechlin's chamber works, his SQs, or his solo piano music. I will probably get some down the road at some point. Satie + Honegger? Sure hell why not! What's interesting about Koechlin is the way he moves more subdued, Impressionistic type of movements to more edgy, almost Rite of Spring primitivism or at least this is what he accomplishes in The Jungle Book. His attention to harmonic color is some of the most interesting I've heard. I mean I thought Debussy and Ravel were masters of harmony, but Koechlin is just working on a completely different level.

Since the word of the day around the forum seems to be influence, Koechlin was an immense influence on 20th Century French music, especially in regard to Les Six. He was a notable theorist and teacher. Wrote tons of books on harmony and orchestration. Some of his notable students were Poulenc, Tailleferre, and, believe it or not, Cole Porter.

[Lethevich]

I read this in the notes of one CD and liked it:

"A little boy asked his mother: 'Why does that gentleman have a large beard?' 'I have a large beard because I like it!', replied Koechlin forcefully."

[The new erato]

Some of his notable students were Poulenc, Tailleferre, and, believe it or not, Cole Porter.

Why shouldn't we believe that? After all, Burt Bacharach studied with Milhaud; and in the elegant and unexpected harmonic twists of many of Burt's masterful songs, I might well perceive the influence of the polytonal frenchman.

[eyeresist]

 I vaguely recall Bacharach saying that as a music student he felt ashamed of his facility for tunes, but his teacher said, no, you have a rare, wonderful gift. I wonder if that was Milhaud?

[mjwal]

I am delighted to see the interest in this fascinating composer

Thank you, Peter, for your informative and illuminating post which moved the thread on from my perhaps maladroit comparison with Havergal Brian . (The comparison was not intended to be of musical idiom but entirely of a reputation which both men shared for having an unrealistic and impractical appreciation of what could or could not reasonably be expected of contemporary orchestras and audiences.)

Leaving that to one side, however .....I cannot really add much to what Peter has, so admirably, described. Koechlin's sound world is not unique in so far as the elements which comprise his music are derived from a wide-range of influences but the mixing of these elements together is frequently astonishing and, I think, in advance of what many others were doing in his time.

"Les heures persanes" is indeed particularly "intoxicating". I do not have the Holliger(Hanssler) version but the older Segerstam(Marco Polo) disc. I cannot therefore make a comparison but I see that Rob Barnett in his review of the Holliger on Musicweb actually prefers the Segerstam.

If you do respond to Scriabin or-as erato points out- to early Messiaen  then you should find this music of real interest.

Regarding Koechlin the man-his interests outside of music appear to have been as diverse! Astronomy, Philosophy, Literature and....early Film. This led to 'The Seven Stars' Symphony' of 1933 in which each movement is dedicated to and inspired by a star of the screen(Douglas Fairbanks, Lilian Harvey, Greta Garbo, Clara Bow, Marlene Dietrich, Emil Jennings and Charlie Chaplin). I don't really think it is much more than a curiosity, to be honest, but an interesting one nevertheless

The complete Jungle Book however...that is another story!

I am picking up this thread on an older post here, as it resonates with me in a specific way. I too haven't heard the Holliger version of Heures Persanes, which in its orchestral form is one of my favourite pieces ever, but judging by the other Holliger-led recordings of Koechlin I suspect that it is high on clarity and low on suggestiveness - lacking what Adrian Corleonis always calls "divination" - so I will stick with Segerstam, who is also fine with the Buisson ardent and Sur les flots lointains etc (when will Naxos start reissuing these?). The Korstick recording of the piano version strikes me as very much in the Holliger vein: it lacks suggestive mystery for my taste.
I cannot concur with the above statement about the marvellous Seven stars symphony, which has become one of my fixes of choice since I was finally able to acquire and hear it, thanks to a wonderful French music 2-CD compilation from Sony France

which is a total winner in other respects too: apart from the Judd 7 Stars, Munch conducting Milhaud, D'Indy, Ibert, Honegger, Roussel, Dukas & Saint-Saens, with a few others (Bernstein, Boulez and Mercier) doing Schmitt, more S-S & Dukas, Chabrier. While the subject of the symphony seems almost trivial, the music itself is ravishing and I can hardly imagine a better performance. It doesn't make me think of film stars at all except in that it evokes the hypnotic dream world of old black and white fantasy films (Sternberg for example) with thaumaturgical sleight of hand while completely eschewing any banal sense of narrative or drama.
Of course, like others, I recommend the Zinman Jungle Book with a fond backward glance to the Dorati LP version of Les Bandar-Log which introduced me to Koechlin back in the early 70s (one reason never to abandon my LP collection, as everyone I know seems to have done).

[cilgwyn]

I totally agree with you about the lovely,underated 'Seven Stars Symphony'. Play it again Sam!

PS: For anyone who wants to hear this,the emi Myrat conducted version is perfectly acceptable if you're wallet won't stretch,or doesn't want to stretch to the more expensive alternatives. (Hey,I'm a BIG Charles Tournemire Symphonies 1-8 fan & I have to put up with his Symphonies 1,2 & 4 in those dodgy Marco Polo recordings!)

[cilgwyn]

Finally had a look at some photo's of Lilian Harvey just see what Koechlin got so excited about. Hm! Each to his own......

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Nothing wrong there (to these eyes)...