Author Topic: Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord  (Read 306710 times)

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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord
« Reply #1300 on: November 25, 2021, 09:30:27 AM »
Did he record more Scarlatti sonatas than Fernando Valenti? I don’t rate Scott Ross highly at all. In anything.

from Wiki:

Fernando Valenti ( New York, New York, 4 December 1926 - Red Bank, New Jersey, 6 September 1990) was an American harpsichordist. After studying with José Iturbi and Ralph Kirkpatrick and débuting in 1950, he recorded extensively, especially in the 1950s, and taught for forty years until his death. One of his most-noted students was Igor Kipnis. His recordings of Bach (two outstanding early ones for the Lyrichord Discs label) and Scarlatti (29 LPs with 346 sonatas for Westminster Records, recorded 1951 - 1961, another 8 sonatas for Music Guild in 1962, and a final set of 12 previously recorded sonatas for the Musical Heritage Society in 1964) were highly regarded.....

That makes 366 sonatas. Ross recorded all - about 555.
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord
« Reply #1301 on: November 25, 2021, 09:33:37 AM »
I don’t rate Scott Ross highly at all. In anything.

I'm not quite as adverse to him, but of course his playing was often more about efficiency than musicality.
As soon as a word has left the lips, not even the fastest horse can catch up with it.

Offline milk

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Re: Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord
« Reply #1302 on: November 25, 2021, 09:31:35 PM »
I'm not quite as adverse to him, but of course his playing was often more about efficiency than musicality.
With so much out there, I no longer see the point of him. It's interesting that he disparaged Gould yet the two seem to have similar weak points.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord
« Reply #1303 on: November 26, 2021, 09:32:55 AM »
With so much out there, I no longer see the point of him. It's interesting that he disparaged Gould yet the two seem to have similar weak points.

Well he could come up with interesting things, in Rameau for example. What do you make of the third D'Anglebert suite which is the start of this youtube upload here?

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/MER94ynuCXs&amp;ab_channel=harpsichordVal" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/MER94ynuCXs&amp;ab_channel=harpsichordVal</a>


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Offline hvbias

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Re: Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord
« Reply #1304 on: November 26, 2021, 09:35:52 AM »
I've been thinking about the upcoming Blandine Verlet Philips box. From what I have sampled am I right to think that her performances of JSB are generally superior on Astree? Her Goldbergs and WTC on Astree have been favorites of mine for a while (charming, imaginative, spontaneous), actually revisited the Goldbergs recently and did the unthinkable for me, I played it from start to finish! Held my attention actively listening and it was never on in just the background.

Still, there are several JSB pieces she only recorded for Philips, if anyone has suggestions for these I'm interested in exploring them. The box is reasonably priced.
"I feel very strongly about Chopin — I just love him" - Fou Ts'ong

Offline hvbias

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Re: Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord
« Reply #1305 on: November 26, 2021, 09:39:10 AM »
Did he record more Scarlatti sonatas than Fernando Valenti? I don’t rate Scott Ross highly at all. In anything.

Harsh, but between the JSB I've heard from him and the Scarlatti box which I pretty much never listen to I have to agree. I find Pieter Jan Belder more sympathetic in Scarlatti, if a bit faceless at times. Pierre Hantai as well though he has some pieces that are played even more aggressively than Scott Ross (K141 comes to mind).
"I feel very strongly about Chopin — I just love him" - Fou Ts'ong

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord
« Reply #1306 on: November 26, 2021, 09:41:52 AM »
I've been thinking about the upcoming Blandine Verlet Philips box. From what I have sampled am I right to think that her performances of JSB are generally superior on Astree?

Different, not superior.
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Offline milk

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Re: Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord
« Reply #1307 on: November 27, 2021, 06:06:12 AM »
Well he could come up with interesting things, in Rameau for example. What do you make of the third D'Anglebert suite which is the start of this youtube upload here?

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/MER94ynuCXs&amp;ab_channel=harpsichordVal" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/MER94ynuCXs&amp;ab_channel=harpsichordVal</a>
Yes I agree. This kind of music is so different and he really get's inside it. It reminds me a bit of Skip Sempe the way he connects the pieces. There's some kind of Bach-syndrome that I don't understand. It happens in piano too. There are very famous pianists who are well know for other repertoire and the minute they get their hands on Bach they sound like second-rate piano teachers or something. I don't understand it. Maybe some people feel they have to play Bach a special way but they don't really know how or maybe they can't get past what their egos are telling them. With Ross, Bach should come naturally but it doesn't and his comments on Bach don't make it sounds like it's easy for him either. I know they're jokes but they sound true. Like, he plays Bach to help him quit smoking. Well, that is what it does really sound like!

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord
« Reply #1308 on: November 27, 2021, 07:09:46 AM »
Yes I agree. This kind of music is so different and he really get's inside it. It reminds me a bit of Skip Sempe the way he connects the pieces. There's some kind of Bach-syndrome that I don't understand. It happens in piano too. There are very famous pianists who are well know for other repertoire and the minute they get their hands on Bach they sound like second-rate piano teachers or something. I don't understand it. Maybe some people feel they have to play Bach a special way but they don't really know how or maybe they can't get past what their egos are telling them. With Ross, Bach should come naturally but it doesn't and his comments on Bach don't make it sounds like it's easy for him either. I know they're jokes but they sound true. Like, he plays Bach to help him quit smoking. Well, that is what it does really sound like!

Not all of the D'Anglebert comes off as well as the third suite I would say. The Rameau is quite special, and it has good sound too. The comparison to Gould that you made is interesting because -- I've just got the Rameau out - it swings like Gould swung, a light but very effective swing, like a cradle in the breeze.  Listen -- the youtube doesn't do justice to the sound. I defy you not to be seduced.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/IX1zu5Dw3yc&amp;ab_channel=jsba1987" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/IX1zu5Dw3yc&amp;ab_channel=jsba1987</a>

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord
« Reply #1309 on: November 28, 2021, 08:41:18 AM »
I've been thinking about the upcoming Blandine Verlet Philips box. From what I have sampled am I right to think that her performances of JSB are generally superior on Astree? Her Goldbergs and WTC on Astree have been favorites of mine for a while (charming, imaginative, spontaneous), actually revisited the Goldbergs recently and did the unthinkable for me, I played it from start to finish! Held my attention actively listening and it was never on in just the background.

Still, there are several JSB pieces she only recorded for Philips, if anyone has suggestions for these I'm interested in exploring them. The box is reasonably priced.

I just found my reaction on first hearing her Philips Goldberg Variations

Quote
This is crazily original Goldberg Variations I've ever heard. When I first heard the aria I thought something must have gone wrong in the production. Elle n'est peut-être  pas nue mais elle est certainement culottée.
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord
« Reply #1310 on: November 28, 2021, 04:01:44 PM »
I just found my reaction on first hearing her Philips Goldberg Variations:

This is crazily original Goldberg Variations I've ever heard. When I first heard the aria I thought something must have gone wrong in the production. Elle n'est peut-être  pas nue mais elle est certainement culottée.

I see (hear) what you mean. On the other hand I think many musicians play the aria in a too serious, almost reverential way. Her [Verlet's] take is quite refreshing. And about her Goldbergs in general the articulation and part playing are as well as the most historically informed (as described eg. in Bruce Haynes' "The end of Early music") I have heard since long even if the recording is several decades old. Haven't heard her Valois Goldberg var. since long - wonder what it is like.
As soon as a word has left the lips, not even the fastest horse can catch up with it.

Offline hvbias

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Re: Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord
« Reply #1311 on: December 02, 2021, 06:12:35 PM »
I just found my reaction on first hearing her Philips Goldberg Variations

Full box is on Spotify so I listened to it over the past week. I thought the Aria from Goldberg Variations was quirky. In general I found myself preferring everything she recorded again on Astree as well as not really caring about a lot of the music not from JSB. For instance I can't see myself ever listening to Mozart's late violin sonatas played on harpsichord.

The one thing I did enjoy quite a bit were the Toccatas, which look like this is the first time they're made available on CD? Does anyone know if Philips released this separately before? This is one I will have to seek out on LP if that is indeed the case.
"I feel very strongly about Chopin — I just love him" - Fou Ts'ong

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord
« Reply #1312 on: December 05, 2021, 01:46:03 AM »
Full box is on Spotify so I listened to it over the past week. I thought the Aria from Goldberg Variations was quirky. In general I found myself preferring everything she recorded again on Astree as well as not really caring about a lot of the music not from JSB. For instance I can't see myself ever listening to Mozart's late violin sonatas played on harpsichord.

The one thing I did enjoy quite a bit were the Toccatas, which look like this is the first time they're made available on CD? Does anyone know if Philips released this separately before? This is one I will have to seek out on LP if that is indeed the case.

Well in the partitas I think there’s a tremendous fantasy and freshness for Philips recordings. I haven’t heard her toccatas. But I can say that her Philips Louis Marchand and La Guerre are valuable. Her French Suites, never recorded again, need to be heard I think.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2021, 01:49:55 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline milk

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Re: Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord
« Reply #1313 on: December 07, 2021, 04:43:37 AM »
Well in the partitas I think there’s a tremendous fantasy and freshness for Philips recordings. I haven’t heard her toccatas. But I can say that her Philips Louis Marchand and La Guerre are valuable. Her French Suites, never recorded again, need to be heard I think.
Her French Suites gave me a jolt. I had an epiphany: French Suites as in French, like Couperin(s), Rameau, etc. Like, French music. Yes! That's how she does it. I'm surprised at how much there is here to adore. I'm glad to hear this stuff.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord
« Reply #1314 on: December 07, 2021, 08:23:59 AM »
Her French Suites gave me a jolt. I had an epiphany: French Suites as in French, like Couperin(s), Rameau, etc. Like, French music. Yes! That's how she does it. I'm surprised at how much there is here to adore. I'm glad to hear this stuff.

Thanks for posting this because it prompted me to listen to the new transfer of the French Suites. It’s much better than the amateur transfer I was using before - and it is a special recording.

Everything she does at this time is highly strung. When I first started to post here I remember someone saying that he thought that her partitas for Philips are “feminine” - I think that’s sexist language, but I guess that’s what he meant. She’s like early Argerich.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2021, 08:27:39 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline milk

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Re: Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord
« Reply #1315 on: December 10, 2021, 07:10:40 AM »
Thanks for posting this because it prompted me to listen to the new transfer of the French Suites. It’s much better than the amateur transfer I was using before - and it is a special recording.

Everything she does at this time is highly strung. When I first started to post here I remember someone saying that he thought that her partitas for Philips are “feminine” - I think that’s sexist language, but I guess that’s what he meant. She’s like early Argerich.
It's something I wouldn't have liked at one point maybe. It's youthful, exuberant, not overly serious. Yet it's very clever, joyous and musical.

Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord
« Reply #1316 on: December 16, 2021, 02:21:28 AM »

Peter Waldner playing Bach lute suites and BWV 1006 on the Lautenwerck.
Interesting release earlier this year that I missed entirely, beautiful playing and recording although on the spare and austere side.