Author Topic: Bach on the piano  (Read 229972 times)

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1080 on: July 23, 2022, 02:06:27 AM »

Listening to just a little bit today, after a long time, I find Gulda’s piano charming.
Bosendorfor in the WTC and there's a remastered version which has good sound.
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1081 on: July 23, 2022, 03:42:57 AM »

ETA I have to admit the metronome-like rhythm is just too much to bear after a short while, especially when he drives at lightening speed.

Yes, this is precisely my problem with Gulda other than the generally eartbound approach.

Having listened to some clips of Peter Hill's WTC I and II I tend to think that his well-balanced both pedagogical and expressive way of part playing is almost ideal from a piano-lover's point of view, so maybe I shall purchase it one day.
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Offline milk

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1082 on: July 23, 2022, 03:55:41 AM »
Yes, this is precisely my problem with Gulda other than the generally eartbound approach.

Having listened to some clips of Peter Hill's WTC I and II I tend to think that his well-balanced both pedagogical and expressive way of part playing is almost ideal from a piano-lover's point of view, so maybe I shall purchase it one day.
I just love it. I am trying to put it into words. There isn't any flash there and it is delicate. But yes it's balanced; he pays attention to every detail without a hint of being mannered or fussy. It's very natural elegant music-making.

Offline hvbias

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1083 on: July 23, 2022, 03:56:56 AM »
Bosendorfor in the WTC and there's a remastered version which has good sound.

I prefer the sound of the original Philips CDs over the MPS remasters.

Yes, this is precisely my problem with Gulda other than the generally eartbound approach.

Agree.

I am curious about how my memory fares on Charles Rosen in AoF, will try and revisit it today. I relistened to Kocsis after I bought the box, still not to my taste.
"I feel very strongly about Chopin — I just love him" - Fou Ts'ong

Offline hvbias

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1084 on: July 24, 2022, 03:25:25 AM »



Charles Rosen - Art of Fugue. It was as I remembered, this is very near analogous to Leonhardt’s DHM recording except on piano. There is little variation in dynamics and flamboyant flair, Rosen like Leonhardt communicates the genius of AoF through simplicity. He plays with a lightness of touch, when he choses a tempo he more or less sticks with it (in less than a fifth of the contrapuncti there are some very short sections where he will briefly speed up, but this sounds like he has to or the ornamentation would sound off). And like Leonhardt can also be quite transcendental and he achieves this with simple means like playing Contrapunctus V with a slower tempo. Contrapunctus VII, had this been in a blind test I would immediately thought this was Jörg Demus (judging by that “live” account of WTC that he plays on some of his own pianos) with how Rosen interweaves the various voices. It’s also not overly legato heavy, which for some reason can make AoF a bit more boring to listen to, maybe because it homogenizes things too much- it was already about 2 AM which is way past when I’m normally up but I was having another love affair with the ESL57 which never seems to end and in the mood to hear recording after recording. I was apparently pretty tired because I feel asleep immediately when I went to bed, but Rosen captivated my attention with in the zone undivided listening through two LP length CDs worth well into the early morning.

Overall a rather mature account. I’m not sure if I would have liked this early on in my classical listening when I heard Sokolov and a bit later Koroliov (this took more warming up to coming from Sokolov). But in comparison the deficiencies of both of them is rather obvious. Rosen is up there with the very best I’ve heard, if not the very best on piano.

Another analogy for people that have heard Uchida playing Diabelli Variations. This is like the 180 degree opposite of that.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2022, 03:27:13 AM by hvbias »
"I feel very strongly about Chopin — I just love him" - Fou Ts'ong

Offline aukhawk

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1085 on: July 24, 2022, 08:44:21 AM »
Another analogy for people that have heard Uchida playing Diabelli Variations. This is like the 180 degree opposite of that.

Oh.  Not boring then.  :)

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1086 on: July 29, 2022, 03:23:04 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBTaTPwwSvw&ab_channel=MatteoMessori

Matteo Messori plays some little Bach on a big Steinway.
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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1087 on: July 29, 2022, 03:39:55 AM »
As soon as a word has left the lips, not even the fastest horse can catch up with it.

Offline San Antone

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1088 on: July 29, 2022, 05:01:05 AM »
My favorite pianists who've devoted much of their time to Bach are András Schiff (especially the ECM recordings), Zhu Xiao-Mei, and Ivo Janssen.

Offline milk

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1089 on: July 29, 2022, 05:19:32 AM »
My favorite pianists who've devoted much of their time to Bach are András Schiff (especially the ECM recordings), Zhu Xiao-Mei, and Ivo Janssen.
I like Janssen but I can’t remember why. I tried Xiang-Mei recently and I thought she seemed worthy of coming back to and hearing more. It’s been a while since I listened to Schiff. You should check out Peter Hill.

Offline San Antone

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1090 on: July 29, 2022, 05:57:40 AM »
I like Janssen but I can’t remember why. I tried Xiang-Mei recently and I thought she seemed worthy of coming back to and hearing more. It’s been a while since I listened to Schiff. You should check out Peter Hill.

Oh, I have been a fan of Peter Hill for years.  I thought I had posted about his Bach recordings, but can't remember where.  But my favorite recording of his is his recording of the solo piano music of Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern on Naxos.

Offline hvbias

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1091 on: July 29, 2022, 07:56:19 AM »
Oh.  Not boring then.  :)

You find Uchida boring? My main issue was it sounds like 33 meticulous (maybe overly mannered) variations strung together, I do not see the big picture with it. Contrast this to R. Serkin (Columbia or BBC) or Gulda who play them as a grand conception but I couldn't name anything special in what they do. Kovacevich on Onyx strikes a good balance between the two styles.

I'm almost certain more people would find Rosen boring than not. For two extreme examples Contrapunctus V

Rosen: https://youtu.be/_aYcVGcu2dE?list=PLrnsjMis4n-MGXuYjQzqJlCADTXiyqU3f
Trifonov: https://youtu.be/T8tZ_IvpQdE?list=PLs2vq238vU6m7eJTHlEAZ1R-CxbqAwtif

Contrapunctus VI

Rosen: https://youtu.be/neJa-zjglqc?list=PLrnsjMis4n-MGXuYjQzqJlCADTXiyqU3f
Trifonov: https://youtu.be/D-kWCqyRI5c?list=PLs2vq238vU6m7eJTHlEAZ1R-CxbqAwtif

For me it was a real chore to make it all the way through Trifonov when it was released, and I normally like him in several other works. Whereas Rosen I find has that transcendental quality that Leonhardt's DHM has, the genius in AoF (for me) is in its simplicity.
"I feel very strongly about Chopin — I just love him" - Fou Ts'ong

Offline aukhawk

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1092 on: July 30, 2022, 12:13:41 AM »
You find Uchida boring? ...

Not at all - it's the Diabelli Variations that I find boring.   ::)   After Todd's tireless advocacy I just had to listen to this - but very soon wished I hadn't.

However interestingly you then went on to cite Trifonov in Art of Fugue and actually I like this recording very much.  But I also like Gorini who poses a complete contrast.

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1093 on: July 30, 2022, 03:53:25 AM »
......it's the Diabelli Variations that I find boring.   ::) 

You are not the only one.
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Offline Iota

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1094 on: July 30, 2022, 10:40:03 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBTaTPwwSvw&ab_channel=MatteoMessori

Matteo Messori plays some little Bach on a big Steinway.

Really enjoyed that! At first I thought I might quickly tire of the constant pulling up and pushing on, but it was so perfectly aligned with illumination of the phrasing, that by the end nothing could have seemed more natural. Excellent find!

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1095 on: August 05, 2022, 12:40:10 AM »
Here's one that made me prick up my ears. Nikolayeva 578

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXn80ueMneE
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1096 on: August 05, 2022, 11:07:23 PM »
Really enjoyed that! At first I thought I might quickly tire of the constant pulling up and pushing on, but it was so perfectly aligned with illumination of the phrasing, that by the end nothing could have seemed more natural. Excellent find!

He’s following the tradition of his compatriot Maria Tipo.

Some of it is clavichord music probably, at least if any of it is early Bach. He may not have had a harpsichord in Kothen, for example, and he probably had clavichords at home in Leipzig, for his family to practise. For that reason I’d suggest playing it on piano is a reasonable experiment to carry out.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2022, 11:21:27 PM by Mandryka »
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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1097 on: August 06, 2022, 01:13:43 AM »

Some of it is clavichord music probably, at least if any of it is early Bach. He may not have had a harpsichord in Kothen, for example, and he probably had clavichords at home in Leipzig, for his family to practise. For that reason I’d suggest playing it on piano is a reasonable experiment to carry out.

The problem in my ears is that these small domestic pieces for the intimate clavichord are blown up in absurdum when played on the grand piano resulting in a maximal counterproductive stylistic crash.
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Offline milk

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1098 on: August 06, 2022, 01:25:49 AM »
The problem in my ears is that these small domestic pieces for the intimate clavichord are blown up in absurdum when played on the grand piano resulting in a maximal counterproductive stylistic crash.
Robert Hill mixes up clavichord, harpsichord and lautenwerk I think. I have to listen to his recordings of these. I think they’re good.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #1099 on: August 06, 2022, 06:10:10 PM »
The problem in my ears is that these small domestic pieces for the intimate clavichord are blown up in absurdum when played on the grand piano resulting in a maximal counterproductive stylistic crash.

The piano was the domestic instrument par excellence in the 19th century and most of the 20th century.
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