Topic: Bach on the piano

[Bulldog]

That's the first mention of him in this thread.

I mentioned Schiff in Reply #5 - didn't care much for his French Suites, but he does play the other works well.

[mn dave]

I mentioned Schiff in Reply #5 - didn't care much for his French Suites, but he does play the other works well.

Oops.

[Opus106]

For those who like Bach on the piano:

The complete Andras Schiff is on jpc very cheap (€20):



Q

Could someone tell me where I can purchase this set online other than jpc.de and amazon.de?

[SonicMan46]

I don't think Perahia ever recorded the French Suites.  The two piano versions I favor come from Gould and Wolfgang Rubsam on Naxos.  Hewitt isn't bad at all, and Gavrilov's dreamy interpretations have much value.  Aldwell comes off rather somber, while Schiff is at the bottom of my list.

I'm assuming you're not interested in harpsichord versions; if I'm wrong, just let me know.

Dave - check out the Bach Harpsichord Thread, Pg. 6 - just picked up the Alan Curtis CDs that Don has recommended (total cost was about $15 from the sources mentioned; and includes both the French & English Suites) - I was really impressed w/ these recordings - might be worth sampling just one; I do have Schiff - was not overly thrilled and could easily replaced the set w/ another - 

[jlaurson]

I could not find this topic in the new forum, continuing this old thread: http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,11094.0.html

If a reader knows where it is, could they tell me so that I may transplant this accordingly?

Cheers,

jfl

25.3.09
Reviewed, Not Necessarily Recommended: Gulda Plays Bach

“Gulda Plays Bach”, “First release ever”, “Private Recordings from Gulda’s archive”, “Bonus Track: Gulda’s own exuberant Prelude and Fugue”. The title and exclamations of this Deutsche Grammophon release are, the typical PR breathlessness aside perfectly enticing, especially to someone who, like I, values Friedrich Gulda’s second Beethoven cycle but also cherishes many of his quirks and jazz-antics. That said, this compilation does not quite live up to its promise. ...

[George]

Thanks once again for another informed, useful review Jens. I am a big fan of Gulda's work.

For Bach on piano, I have recently aquired and really enjoy Tipo's set on EMI. Her playing has great beauty, more than any other Bach interpreter that I have heard. 

I also got Tureck's WTC set on DG recently and love what Don refers to as her "X-ray of Bach." Rather than be the more bland version I expected, I was pleased to see that she still manages a great deal of expression and tender style in her playing.

Feinberg is a big favorite for me in the WTC, his decidedly pianistic interpretations might be my favorite.

Yet there's so much competition, including Richter's two recordings, one live at Insbruck and one studio for RCA. The RCA is incredible, more powerful and with less focus on beauty. The live one is more spontaneous, form the little I have heard. I have yet to hear the whole thing.

I've only heard Hewitt's Tocattas, but what I have heard I have enjoyed. The sound is of course outstanding.

Gould was my first exposure and will always have a place on my shelves. His readings are special, for they glow with the joy of a man who so obviously loved the composers work. Never boring, never prissy, Gould's Bach simply was Bach for me for a number of years. 
 

[orbital]

Thanks once again for another informed, useful review Jens. I am a big fan of Gulda's work.

I listened through 1/4 of Gulda's WTC 1 yesterday, but still not hooked I'm afraid  The music is played with utmost clarity but I can't get used to his pace or his hushed dynamics.

[George]

I listened through 1/4 of Gulda's WTC 1 yesterday, but still not hooked I'm afraid  The music is played with utmost clarity but I can't get used to his pace or his hushed dynamics.

I should have added that I have yet to connect with Gulda's WTC.

Have you heard Feinberg's WTC? If anyone can sell you (not the generic you, I mean you) on the WTC, it's him. 

[Bulldog]

I should have added that I have yet to connect with Gulda's WTC.

Have you heard Feinberg's WTC? If anyone can sell you (not the generic you, I mean you) on the WTC, it's him. 

Just the opposite for me.  I connected immediately with the Gulda - took some time with Feinberg.  The sound on both is problematic.

[rubio]

I consider this limited edition bargain 12CD Andras Schiff set. I have heard and enjoy his Well-Tempered Clavier due to his dancing quality, singing tone, colors and dynamic contrasts (making the preludes and fuges stand apart). How is e.g. the Goldberg Variations in this set? Or the Partitas? It seems to only be available in Germany so far.

Generally, how do you think Schiff compares with Hewitt as a Bach pianist? Which are their strengths and weaknesses in this repertoire? I've heard a bit of both and they seem not so far apart for me (but haven't heard enough).

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Johann-Sebastian-Bach-Die-Werke-f%FCr-Klavier-solo/hnum/7544823

[Que]

I could not find this topic in the new forum, continuing this old thread: http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,11094.0.html

If a reader knows where it is, could they tell me so that I may transplant this accordingly?

I'm open to suggestions what to do with the various threads on Bach's keyboard music...    

I favour the idea of a general thread on piano performances, just as there is a thread on performances on period instruments (harpsichord, etc.)

But there are also threads on specific works, mostly dominated by discussion on piano performances, The most prominent is the recently active thread on the WTC. Now, we have WTC/piano discussions on two different threads, for instance.

Bach Goldberg Variations on piano

Bach: Well-Tempered Clavier

Bach Piano Question

Bach Toccatas

Bach's Inventions & Sinfonias

Q

[The new erato]

How is e.g. the Goldberg Variations in this set? Or the Partitas?

The Partitas are particularly fine, I played them this weekend (disc 1 even twice). I remember one of the board members had the Partitas as one of his Desert Islands dics as well on that thread.

[rubio]

The Partitas are particularly fine, I played them this weekend (disc 1 even twice). I remember one of the board members had the Partitas as one of his Desert Islands dics as well on that thread.

That sounds reassuring. I probably will invest.

[Jay F]

I consider this limited edition bargain 12CD Andras Schiff set. I have heard and enjoy his Well-Tempered Clavier due to his dancing quality, singing tone, colors and dynamic contrasts (making the preludes and fuges stand apart). How is e.g. the Goldberg Variations in this set?

It's my favorite, though the only others I've heard on piano are both by Gould. FWIW, Schiff's WTC is my favorite, too.

Generally, how do you think Schiff compares with Hewitt as a Bach pianist? Which are their strengths and weaknesses in this repertoire? I've heard a bit of both and they seem not so far apart for me (but haven't heard enough).

I have both discs of Hewitt's Keyboard Concertos, but I never feel compelled to listen to them. I usually pick Schiff's, though these really aren't favorite pieces of mine.

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Johann-Sebastian-Bach-Die-Werke-f%FCr-Klavier-solo/hnum/7544823


[/quote]

[jwinter]

I'm open to suggestions what to do with the various threads on Bach's keyboard music...

Personally I don't mind having multiple threads on the same subject.  Part of the charm of a place like this is rummaging through the old threads and seeing what's there.  In many ways we're like a group of old friends chatting -- we may talk about the WTC today, and maybe we talked about it 4 months ago as well -- part of the charm is seeing how those conversations differ, how opinions change, how the same topic can diverge into many different paths.  If they all get squashed together into one thread, you lose some of that IMO.  If it were up to me, I wouldn't merge threads unless you've clearly got a new thread on the same very narrow subject as an old thread that's long dormant -- and I don't mean something narrow like "Bach's Piano Music", I mean something narrow like "Looking for a HIP recording of Beethoven's Coriolan Overture," or "Let's list the men, women, sheep, and potted plants that Leonard Bernstein slept with."  And even then I don't know that I'd merge them in all instances.  Forums are a little chaotic by nature; don't be afraid to let things go.

Just my two cents, of course

[Mandryka]

I assume we're talking J.S. and not C.P.E.

You've gotta hear Alexis Weissenberg -- all three CDs EMI,  are amazing listening.

My personal favourite Bach solo piano piece is Partita 4 -- Gould is outstanding in this, and there's a good version of the sarabande by Rachmaninoff. And Weissenberg is very good too. But Gould is best.

Generally for the partitas, Weissenberg is tops. Except for one thing. There's a record by Tureck on Doremi -- made when she was a youngster -- which is so incredibly perfect and exciting that it even beats Alexis.

For the Goldbergs Weissenberg comes top for me -- but Tureck's GPOTTC record is a good antidote. And so is Gould's live Salzburg disc (Gould's studio performances although iconic, are not as good as the live one) My real problem with Gould is that he doesn't take the repeats, so you lose the grandeur.

I don't believe one set of WTC will do: pianists are good in one P and F -- less good in another.  Richter and Feinberg have given me pleasure. Fischer and Tureck and Gould have not.

For me Art of Fugue doesn't work well on piano -- nevertheless some of the piano fugues on Gould's disc are so communicative, so poetic that you gotta have it. Sokolov is exciting, colourful, virtuosic, genius; and I like Aimard's straightforward approach to counteract Sokolov's hypnotism. But me -- I think it's best on the organ or performed by a little band.

You need Gould for the Inventions -- not always but often he is superb.

And I must mention Fiorentino -- I'm having a bit of a love affair with this guy right now so my comments may not be fair -- but his two Bach discs on APR and the Bach from his Live in Germany CDs are great!

And then there are the transcriptions -- don't get me going. Michelangeli for the Bach/Busoni Chaconne. Feinberg's two versions of Allein Gott In Der Hoh Sei Ehr are a real high point for me (esp the second) -- both on a fantastic Russian Piano school CD . Demidenko's two Bach/Busoni discs are good -- , Plowright with Bach/Rummel on Hyperion is a disc to treasure as are Bolet and Pletnev on their Carnegie Hall discs.

Talking of Pletnev, someone has put a fantastic video of him playing 6th partita on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuEGyRa3fMA. I want more -- anyone know about it? It says it was taken from an Amsterdam 2004 concert -- was it the same one as the notorious Chopin Preludes concert?

There are some highly rated pianists who seem to me bland and mediocre compared to the ones I've mentioned -- Perahia, Schiff (I've heard the Godbergs on ECM (they're OK -- just)  and the French Suites (don't like))  Hewett (I've heard and quite like the Partitas -- but IMO they're not special like Gould and Weissenberg and Tureck. I didn't much enjoy her WTC. I've heard her live in Bach and others many times and I've always wondered what the fuss is about.)

Finally, for the concertos -- I like Gould EXCEPT the one with Bernstein. And I like Perahia (amazingly -- what I said above applies to his Goldbergs and his Partitas, I haven't heard the suites )

Writing this has made me realise that historical Bach doesn't figure much -- I have some recordings by Schnabel but I'll have to listen to them again. They certainly haven't made much of an impact. I like Landowska's WTC -- but it's not piano. And I've already mentioned Rachmaninov.

Any other piano Bach from the age of 78s?

Writing this has also made me see I need to revisit Richter's Bach -- there's a lot more of it besides WTC and I don't really know it well.

[rubio]

Which of these performers are good at bringing out the dance quality and singing tone of these pieces, Mandryka? Or are you looking for others qualities in Bach playing?

[Mandryka]

Which of these performers are good at bringing out the dance quality and singing tone of these pieces, Mandryka? Or are you looking for others qualities in Bach playing?

Good questions.

In the partitas you may want a bit of dancing: they were never intended for the ballroom but they do have names of dances for sure. Tureck dances in that Partita recording.


I didn't say anything positive about the suites -- I must say I have never found a recording of either the English or French suites which has really sent my adrenaline going. Recommendations much appreciated -- you can get a feel from my post for  the style I like.


Is it a good thing to dance your way through Art of Fugue. WTC? Or the Goldbergs? 

As far as singing tone goes -- I'm not sure I value that too much. Let me put that differently -- I am sure I don't value that too much. Sometimes it's nice -- Gould sings the aria to the goldbergs for example and that's kind of sweet. And Fiorentino can sing. But I like a Bach piano style which emphasises the complexity of the counterpoint, I guess.

[orbital]

I assume we're talking J.S. and not C.P.E.

You've gotta hear Alexis Weissenberg -- all three CDs EMI,  are amazing listening.

My personal favourite Bach solo piano piece is Partita 4 -- Gould is outstanding in this, and there's a good version of the sarabande by Rachmaninoff. And Weissenberg is very good too. But Gould is best.

Generally for the partitas, Weissenberg is tops. Except for one thing. There's a record by Tureck on Doremi -- made when she was a youngster -- which is so incredibly perfect and exciting that it even beats Alexis.

For the Goldbergs Weissenberg comes top for me -- but Tureck's GPOTTC record is a good antidote. And so is Gould's live Salzburg disc (Gould's studio performances although iconic, are not as good as the live one) My real problem with Gould is that he doesn't take the repeats, so you lose the grandeur.

I don't believe one set of WTC will do: pianists are good in one P and F -- less good in another.  Richter and Feinberg have given me pleasure. Fischer and Tureck and Gould have not.

For me Art of Fugue doesn't work well on piano -- nevertheless some of the piano fugues on Gould's disc are so communicative, so poetic that you gotta have it. Sokolov is exciting, colourful, virtuosic, genius; and I like Aimard's straightforward approach to counteract Sokolov's hypnotism. But me -- I think it's best on the organ or performed by a little band.

You need Gould for the Inventions -- not always but often he is superb.

And I must mention Fiorentino -- I'm having a bit of a love affair with this guy right now so my comments may not be fair -- but his two Bach discs on APR and the Bach from his Live in Germany CDs are great!

And then there are the transcriptions -- don't get me going. Michelangeli for the Bach/Busoni Chaconne. Feinberg's two versions of Allein Gott In Der Hoh Sei Ehr are a real high point for me (esp the second) -- both on a fantastic Russian Piano school CD . Demidenko's two Bach/Busoni discs are good -- , Plowright with Bach/Rummel on Hyperion is a disc to treasure as are Bolet and Pletnev on their Carnegie Hall discs.

Talking of Pletnev, someone has put a fantastic video of him playing 6th partita on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuEGyRa3fMA. I want more -- anyone know about it? It says it was taken from an Amsterdam 2004 concert -- was it the same one as the notorious Chopin Preludes concert?

There are some highly rated pianists who seem to me bland and mediocre compared to the ones I've mentioned -- Perahia, Schiff (I've heard the Godbergs on ECM (they're OK -- just)  and the French Suites (don't like))  Hewett (I've heard and quite like the Partitas -- but IMO they're not special like Gould and Weissenberg and Tureck. I didn't much enjoy her WTC. I've heard her live in Bach and others many times and I've always wondered what the fuss is about.)

Finally, for the concertos -- I like Gould EXCEPT the one with Bernstein. And I like Perahia (amazingly -- what I said above applies to his Goldbergs and his Partitas, I haven't heard the suites )

Writing this has made me realise that historical Bach doesn't figure much -- I have some recordings by Schnabel but I'll have to listen to them again. They certainly haven't made much of an impact. I like Landowska's WTC -- but it's not piano. And I've already mentioned Rachmaninov.

Any other piano Bach from the age of 78s?

Writing this has also made me see I need to revisit Richter's Bach -- there's a lot more of it besides WTC and I don't really know it well.

Our tastes in Bach keyboard interpretations are very similar Mandryka. Weissenberg EMI is close to my top desert island piano CD. I can't believe he did not do a full suites set 

You forgot the magnificent French Overture. It may be my favorite Bach keyboard work overall (if we don't count WTC as one piece). Weissenberg again is superb there. And when we talk about the FO, we can not not mention its cousin the Italian Concerto. Solomon is whom I listen to the most. Weissenberg's delirious third movement is of course amazing and his second movement is a testament to the fact that he could withhold himself if he chose to.

[orbital]

Talking of Pletnev, someone has put a fantastic video of him playing 6th partita on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuEGyRa3fMA. I want more -- anyone know about it? It says it was taken from an Amsterdam 2004 concert -- was it the same one as the notorious Chopin Preludes concert?

I may have that. It may not be the Amsterdam recital, it might not even be the 6th partita  , but I know I have a live Pletnev Bach partita somewhere. I will let you know soon.