Bach on the piano

Started by mn dave, November 13, 2008, 06:12:24 AM

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Iota

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/03/02/classical-cd-of-the-week-liszt-inspections-2/#2202ad6627f0

Excellent review.

"Marino Formenti pulls your ears longer and open wider, and no one does it so persuasively and gently."

Quite.


Fwiw, I liked what I've heard of Dina Ugorskaja (WTC1), she sounds like she wishes to make the structural/emotional trajectory of each piece very clear, one can almost hear her breathing in between the lines of the poem, between shifts of emphasis in the prosody, but it all sounds like the real thing.

Dinnerstein did sound somewhat cosmetic to my ears when I listened her Bach C minor Partita (Sony), there were moments where I thought wow that sounds lovely, but in the end I found myself tiring of it. It's been a while though.

staxomega

#841
Quote from: Mandryka on February 13, 2020, 08:46:52 AM
A minor and especially B minor fugues Bk 2.

In her hands Bk 2, especially some of the fugues, seems to me to be coming from a dark, sad place, unusually so, painfully so. I think it's a valuable recording.

Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on February 14, 2020, 07:29:27 AM
Re: Dina Ugorskaja, who has since succumbed to her cancer: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/10/11/bachs-well-tempered-clavier-forget-me-nots-and-intimations-of-mortality-classical-cd-of-the-week/

Here's an excerpt from the review above that mentions some excerpts, in particular:

And yes, those concept albums can work very well, indeed! I like what Schuch does; the two albums of Marino Formenti (see below) work VERY well. And How Thomas Larcher juxtaposed Schubert & Schoenberg made me fall in love with both composers, HARD, many years back. Absolute must-have recording. http://a-fwd.to/4WBzycy

She is indeed very good. There is a lot to take in here, definitely not something you can form an opinion on while doing other things. Many of the major key pieces are exceptional as well like the A major Prelude from Book 2. The closest pianist she reminds me of is early Pogorelich with her phrasing, clarity and clairvoyance.

Thanks for the article Jens, I was aware of her unfortunate passing. I'll check out the Fred Thomas and other concept albums soon.

SurprisedByBeauty

Quote from: Mandryka on February 14, 2020, 08:42:21 PM
I'm wondering whether to get her Brahms recording, even though I have no interest in the concerto, if you tell me that it's imbued with the same sense of mortality, I will take a punt.

Internet reviews are very divided, and somewhat inclined to be negative,  which I think is a very good sign indeed that there's some fresh and imaginative thinking going on in the performances.

I wasn't _too_ keen on the Brahms, to be honest... but found it worth listening to, knowing the pianist's ways. I do, however, find the Schumann and Schubert and Beethoven to be very intriguing and mostly very good.

Quote from: Iota on February 15, 2020, 02:32:13 AM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2016/03/02/classical-cd-of-the-week-liszt-inspections-2/#2202ad6627f0

Excellent review.

Thank you!

Quote from: Mandryka on February 14, 2020, 09:00:07 PM
This is even more so the case for Tipo

Yikes. What must that sound like, then! :-|

staxomega

Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on February 16, 2020, 01:03:21 AM
I wasn't _too_ keen on the Brahms, to be honest... but found it worth listening to, knowing the pianist's ways. I do, however, find the Schumann and Schubert and Beethoven to be very intriguing and mostly very good.

Her Handel disc is also worth checking out, she has my favorite interpretation of the third suite in D minor on a piano.

Mandryka

Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on February 16, 2020, 01:03:21 AM
I wasn't _too_ keen on the Brahms, to be honest... but found it worth listening to, knowing the pianist's ways. I do, however, find the Schumann and Schubert and Beethoven to be very intriguing and mostly very good.


I tried op 111 and one other, op 109 I think, last week, it seemed OK without having the exceptional candour of the Schubert and WTC2. Maybe I didn't listen carefully enough, you know what these things are like.
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staxomega

Quote from: Mandryka on February 16, 2020, 05:15:38 AM
I tried op 111 and one other, op 109 I think, last week, it seemed OK without having the exceptional candour of the Schubert and WTC2. Maybe I didn't listen carefully enough, you know what these things are like.

Have you heard the Hammerklavier? I didn't think it had the deep transcendental quality I'm looking for in the Adagio. 

Mandryka

#846
Quote from: hvbias on February 16, 2020, 05:32:50 AM
Have you heard the Hammerklavier? I didn't think it had the deep transcendental quality I'm looking for in the Adagio.

Just thinking of the first movement gives me the heebie jeebies, I'm afraid I'm not a fan of Beethoven, I'm trying to cut out his music completely, it's just that I get distracted by things like this Ugorskaja. I must show more self discipline: NO MORE BEETHOVEN.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

premont

Quote from: Mandryka on February 16, 2020, 05:34:48 AM
NO MORE BEETHOVEN.

I am sure that you will not be able to maintain this for more than a few weeks.  :)
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Mandryka

#848
Here's a nice thing by Ugorskaja, it seems to me that she had a real swan song before her death, like Loraine Hunt Lieberson. This performance of Galina Ustvolskaja's 5th sonata has the same candour and darkness as the late Bach recordings I think . . . other people who play it don't find such pain in it.

https://www.youtube.com/v/aDtRgWtx7eY
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

SurprisedByBeauty

Quote from: Mandryka on February 16, 2020, 11:16:51 AM
Here's a nice thing by Ugorskaja, it seems to me that she had a real swan song before her death, like Loraine Hunt Lieberson. This performance of Galina Ustvolskaja's 5th sonata has the same candour and darkness as the late Bach recordings I think . . . other people who play it don't find such pain in it.

https://www.youtube.com/v/aDtRgWtx7eY

Nice. Yes, she had a real talent for finding pain and darkness in music...

staxomega

Rubsam's recordings of the Toccatas is really paying dividends, these are extremely interesting performances. I'm drawing parallels to it with serial solo keyboard music, not in technical terms but in his style, easily a best of 2020 discovery!

I received the 3rd and 4th Partitas CD as well, looking forward to really getting to know that.

vers la flamme

Quote from: hvbias on February 19, 2020, 12:53:40 PM
Rubsam's recordings of the Toccatas is really paying dividends, these are extremely interesting performances. I'm drawing parallels to it with serial solo keyboard music, not in technical terms but in his style, easily a best of 2020 discovery!

I received the 3rd and 4th Partitas CD as well, looking forward to really getting to know that.

Your enthusiasm is infectious. I'll be checking it out (the Toccatas) along with some of Rübsam's organ Bach recordings. I just got Peter Watchorn's Toccatas recording, but that's another story for another thread. Haven't opened it yet.

premont

Quote from: vers la flamme on February 27, 2020, 08:11:43 AM
Your enthusiasm is infectious. I'll be checking it out (the Toccatas) along with some of Rübsam's organ Bach recordings. I just got Peter Watchorn's Toccatas recording, but that's another story for another thread. Haven't opened it yet.

Which Watchorn? He recorded them twice, the second (Musica Omnia) by far the best.

Concerning Rübsam  I would advice you to listen to some of his other Bach piano recordings (English suites, Partitas e.g.) rather than to his Naxos Bach organ recordings. The latter may easily become tedious, if you are not in the right mood.
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vers la flamme

Quote from: (: premont :) on February 27, 2020, 10:39:45 AM
Which Watchorn? He recorded them twice, the second (Musica Omnia) by far the best.

Concerning Rübsam  I would advice you to listen to some of his other Bach piano recordings (English suites, Partitas e.g.) rather than to his Naxos Bach organ recordings. The latter may easily become tedious, if you are not in the right mood.

Why is that? Too slow? I find Rübsam's recent Goldberg Variations on a lute-harpsichord quite tedious, actually, for its slow tempo and unusual rubato, but I sense something is there in his musicianship that I'm missing out on. Hence my desire to explore his organ and piano recordings.

I got the Watchorn Bach toccatas on Hänssler. It was very cheap and I heard good things about it. What about the Musica Omnia makes it better "by far"?

premont

Quote from: vers la flamme on February 27, 2020, 04:35:18 PM
Why is that? Too slow? I find Rübsam's recent Goldberg Variations on a lute-harpsichord quite tedious, actually, for its slow tempo and unusual rubato, but I sense something is there in his musicianship that I'm missing out on. Hence my desire to explore his organ and piano recordings.

Precisely. I had to get accustomed to his new style by means of the piano recordings, which are not too eccentric, before I was  able to appreciate his more eccentric recordings (which are many of the Naxos Bach organ recordings and his Bach lute-harpsichord recordings).

Quote from: vers la flamme
I got the Watchorn Bach toccatas on Hänssler. It was very cheap and I heard good things about it. What about the Musica Omnia makes it better "by far"?

The toccatas are difficult to bring out. They should sound improvised but still integrated. Otherwise they may seem too long and diffuse. Watchorn succeeds better with this in the Musica Omnia version, but this doesn't mean that the Hänssler version is bad.
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Mandryka

Quote from: vers la flamme on February 27, 2020, 08:11:43 AM
Your enthusiasm is infectious. I'll be checking it out (the Toccatas) along with some of Rübsam's organ Bach recordings.

Presumably it's Rubsam's Bach Toccatas recording on piano which you're interested in. In fact I've never heard it, I didn't know it existed until it was mentioned here a few days ago.
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vers la flamme

Quote from: Mandryka on February 28, 2020, 02:23:05 AM
Presumably it's Rubsam's Bach Toccatas recording on piano which you're interested in. In fact I've never heard it, I didn't know it existed until it was mentioned here a few days ago.

Yes, that's correct. I am intrigued with hvbias' mention of serial keyboard music; I'm always on the hunt for ties between music of different eras.

staxomega

#857
premont I once again find myself very much in agreement with you on everything you've written. I think even his Philips recordings are best served to exploring later on even if they aren't as extreme as the organ recordings on Naxos.

Also in agreement that there should be a balance between improvised and integrated, for me just slightly more towards integrated. 

With all this discussion of the Toccatas I thought I'd revisit Mahan Esfahani and while I've softened my views on it I still find it goes too far to the other extent in being unyielding. I will look up Watchorn on Musica Omnia, those recordings are rarely flat or provoke opinions of indifference.

Quote from: vers la flamme on February 28, 2020, 03:21:27 AM
Yes, that's correct. I am intrigued with hvbias' mention of serial keyboard music; I'm always on the hunt for ties between music of different eras.

Not to be taken literally :)

I find the instrument he plays pretty interesting, there is an abruptness to it that suits this music. I can't pinpoint what it is, or if it's a modified instrument.

vers la flamme

Quote from: hvbias on February 28, 2020, 05:44:26 AM
premont I once again find myself very much in agreement with you on everything you've written. I think even his Philips recordings are best served to exploring later on even if they aren't as extreme as the organ recordings on Naxos.

Also in agreement that there should be a balance between improvised and integrated, for me just slightly more towards integrated. 

With all this discussion of the Toccatas I thought I'd revisit Mahan Esfahani and while I've softened my views on it I still find it goes too far to the other extent in being unyielding. I will look up Watchorn on Musica Omnia, those recordings are rarely flat or provoke opinions of indifference.

Not to be taken literally :)

I find the instrument he plays pretty interesting, there is an abruptness to it that suits this music. I can't pinpoint what it is, or if it's a modified instrument.

Of course  ;)

Mandryka

I've been really enjoying this Bach Busoni prelude played slowly, metaphysically, by DemiD today.

https://www.youtube.com/v/xVStfDG1-r4

Edwin Fischer played it also, very differently. There's no rights or wrongs with Bach Busoni I guess.

https://youtube.com/v/wrp2P9cM8pM
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen