Author Topic: Bach on the piano  (Read 159334 times)

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Offline milk

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #880 on: March 14, 2020, 07:44:56 AM »
Like who?  Are you looking for a Liberace of classical music?  I don't see the point.

For me, the piano as played by Schiff is the perfect balance between exploiting the piano's dynamism but not spoiling the counterpoint with sustain pedaling.

Milk, I think I seen you post that you do not like to hear dynamics in Bach.  Do you have trouble with dynamics in general, i.e. some kind of hearing problem - or is this an aesthetic conclusion on your part: that Bach's keyboard works should not be played with dynamics?
No no. I just get annoyed when I put something on that’s soft and suddenly it’s loud. It’s why I rarely listen to Chopin ( though I do sometimes). But I can appreciate Chopin and if I’m in the mood I’ll still listen to someone like Feinberg - who I think uses a lot of soft-loud. I don’t have any dogma about it. I do have bouts of compulsivity so if I’m in the mood where I’m noticing it too much, I’ll turn it off.
I don’t think I’m too rigid so I can come back to something I disliked and try again to find appreciation.

Offline San Antone

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #881 on: March 14, 2020, 09:28:27 AM »
No no. I just get annoyed when I put something on that’s soft and suddenly it’s loud. It’s why I rarely listen to Chopin ( though I do sometimes). But I can appreciate Chopin and if I’m in the mood I’ll still listen to someone like Feinberg - who I think uses a lot of soft-loud. I don’t have any dogma about it. I do have bouts of compulsivity so if I’m in the mood where I’m noticing it too much, I’ll turn it off.
I don’t think I’m too rigid so I can come back to something I disliked and try again to find appreciation.

I am willing to bet before you began to explore classical music you listened mainly to pop or rock music where the dynamic range is narrow.  One of the hallmarks of classical music is it wide dynamic range.  I think the key is having a decent stereo system and finding the right volume setting so that the soft passages are distinct but the loud sections are not too loud.

Online Mandryka

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #882 on: March 14, 2020, 09:52:16 AM »
One of the hallmarks of classical music is it wide dynamic range. 

Certainly not for music designed for harpsichord or clavichord or fortepiano -- including Haydn, Mozart and Schubert.
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #883 on: March 14, 2020, 10:42:24 AM »
What does fortepiano/pianoforte mean again? ;)
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
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Online Mandryka

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #884 on: March 14, 2020, 10:46:03 AM »
What does fortepiano/pianoforte mean again? ;)

Whatever they mean the idea of "wide" doesn't come into it. The (misleading) claim was than classical music means wide dynamic range.
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Offline San Antone

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #885 on: March 14, 2020, 11:03:53 AM »
Whatever they mean the idea of "wide" doesn't come into it. The (misleading) claim was than classical music means wide dynamic range.

Certainly not for music designed for harpsichord or clavichord or fortepiano

You cited one example of a harpsichord, but for all other forms of performing classical music, vocal, instrumental, dynamics play an important and expressive role. If anything, your comments to the contrary are what are misleading.  The fortepiano was named precisely because it could execute dynamcis.  Also the clavichord could make loud and soft, not as wide a range as pianos, but certainly more than a harpsichord.

What does fortepiano/pianoforte mean again? ;)

A fortepiano was the precursor (which took more than 200 years to develop into the modern grand) to the modern piano, which was originally called a pianoforte, then shortened to piano.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 11:12:05 AM by San Antone »

Online vers la flamme

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #886 on: March 14, 2020, 11:22:22 AM »
You cited one example of a harpsichord, but for all other forms of performing classical music, vocal, instrumental, dynamics play an important and expressive role. If anything, your comments to the contrary are what are misleading.  The fortepiano was named precisely because it could execute dynamcis.  Also the clavichord could make loud and soft, not as wide a range as pianos, but certainly more than a harpsichord.

A fortepiano was the precursor (which took more than 200 years to develop into the modern grand) to the modern piano, which was originally called a pianoforte, then shortened to piano.

Jo was cheekily alluding to the exact point you described, not asking for the definitions of those terms in earnest.

Offline milk

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #887 on: March 15, 2020, 04:37:21 AM »
I am willing to bet before you began to explore classical music you listened mainly to pop or rock music where the dynamic range is narrow.  One of the hallmarks of classical music is it wide dynamic range.  I think the key is having a decent stereo system and finding the right volume setting so that the soft passages are distinct but the loud sections are not too loud.
Yes that's true. But I'm not sure a good stereo would help. I generally don't like big sounding music anyway; I don't listen to symphonies, for example. But I think you'e partially correct here.   

Offline San Antone

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #888 on: March 15, 2020, 05:00:48 AM »
Jo was cheekily alluding to the exact point you described, not asking for the definitions of those terms in earnest.

Pardon my tardy uptake.   ;)  (Hat tip, Andy Sipowicz)

Yes that's true. But I'm not sure a good stereo would help. I generally don't like big sounding music anyway; I don't listen to symphonies, for example. But I think you'e partially correct here.   

I get it; I also don't listen to much orchestral music, preferring chamber and solo works.  But with keyboard music I enjoy a pianist's capability to play Bach using dynamics in order to come closer to a cantabile (singing) style of phrasing.  A piano can never truly play in a singing style, not like a wind instrument or a violin, e.g. - but being unable to articulate any dynamics, IMO, is too limiting for my enjoyment.

 8)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2020, 05:26:01 AM by San Antone »

Offline milk

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #889 on: March 15, 2020, 04:50:58 PM »
I’m giving this a listen today. Her Allemande in the fourth partita clocks in at over 10 minutes. She’s very clear.

Offline George

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #890 on: March 15, 2020, 05:27:09 PM »
I’m giving this a listen today. Her Allemande in the fourth partita clocks in at over 10 minutes. She’s very clear.

Damn, thought that was Audrey Hepburn.  :o
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

Offline San Antone

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Re: Bach on the piano
« Reply #891 on: March 15, 2020, 05:34:59 PM »
Goldberg Variations by one of my favorite pianists, Ragna Schirmer