Bach on the piano

Started by mn dave, November 13, 2008, 06:12:24 AM

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Mandryka

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Florestan

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Mandryka

Quote from: Florestan on October 24, 2020, 01:26:52 PM
Is a performer an artist? Yes or no.

These things are a matter of degree.  A performer of Ravel is less an artist than a performer of Cage.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Florestan

#943
Quote from: Mandryka on October 24, 2020, 01:30:34 PM
A performer of Schumann is less an artist than a performer of Cage.

Bullshit on stilts, if you'll excuse my French.

Cortot and Horowitz less an artist than... wait a minute, who again?
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Mandryka

Quote from: Florestan on October 24, 2020, 01:32:02 PM
Bullshit on stilts, if you'll excuse my French.

Quelle poésie!
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Florestan

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

#946
Quote from: (: premont :) on October 24, 2020, 11:54:39 AM
This is completely misunderstood. What you call authenticists do not think that there is one and only one true way to interprete a given work. What they state is that there are some ways of interpretation which in relation to a given work are inauthentic e.g. anachronistic instruments. Even a piece like the f-minor p&f from book II may be interpreted in many different ways, also when period instruments are used, and it was without doubt also interpreted in different ways by different performers already at Bach's time.

Thank you for your response. In order to clarify the philosophical/artistic difference, I exemplified two opposite polars "in theory." In the real world, there is a continuum with the opposite ends, rather than only the two opposite extremes, and I assume that most people are somewhere around the center of continuum. Again, my description is in theoretical term, rather than descriptive/statistical term of the population in the real world. I appreciate your clarification and good understanding on the issue I brought up. I am looking forward to reading your comments and reviews on various recordings.

P.s. The position you mention sounds like close to a pluralist-nonrelativist position.

milk

#947
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on October 24, 2020, 09:34:00 AM
As always, there is an artistic/philosophical gap between the authenticist camp and pluralist camp. Autheticists tend to view that there is only one true interpretation of a work. Artistic effort should be an effort to achieve, or get closer to, this true interpretation. Many, if not all, of them think that the composer's intention with intended instrument is the best/true interpretation. The pluralists tend to see that there can be several interpretations that would expand and diversify the aesthetics of works. Some, if not all, of them are relativists who think that the effectiveness of interpretations are contingent upon the listeners' preferences.
I can't believe there's anyone in this thread who believes there is one interpretation of Bach. Clearly some people prefer piano to period instruments and vice versa. Still others enjoy Bach on all manner of instruments. I just haven't encountered anyone here who thinks there's one true way to achieve - even if they have a preference for one sort of instrument. I think there's more of a prejudice against, and ignorance of, period performance actually. Time and again I come across people who think period performance is supposed to be rigid and grim.

Mandryka

Here's something unexpected, Robert Hill, WTC 1 preludes, fortepiano, romantic style

https://www.youtube.com/v/fCIjJAd9g20
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

aukhawk

Quote from: Florestan on October 24, 2020, 01:22:08 PM
Is a performer not an artist?

Such a loaded term.  Was Bach an artist?
He was born into a family of musicians going back a couple of generations at least.  He did what he did because he didn't know anything else.

Florestan

Quote from: aukhawk on October 27, 2020, 03:54:27 AM
Was Bach an artist?

An artist is someone who creates art.
Bach created art.

Bach was an artist.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: vers la flamme on September 27, 2020, 06:00:38 AM
I was thinking east Asian too. Reminds me of when I found out that a Vietnamese classmate of mine had the middle name Bach, and I said "wow, that's awesome, your parents must love classical music" and he had no idea what I was talking about. Turns out it's just a family name and extremely common in Vietnam...  ;D
Darn!  I like your story better!   ;) :)

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Is it pronounced like "bahu" rather than "back" in Germany?

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on October 27, 2020, 08:15:37 AM
Is it pronounced like "bahu" rather than "back" in Germany?
You might find this to be helpful:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfXIfhPQh-s
Pohjolas Daughter

Sterna

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on October 27, 2020, 08:26:49 AM
You might find this to be helpful:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfXIfhPQh-s

Great!

I love Bach.
I don't mind when people call him John Sebastian Bahu though.

One of the first things I saw and heard about Bach was a documentary about Glenn Gould. I was fascinated, but I do not listen to Gould that much anymore. His own creation of extra and also extra spooky contrapunt (humhumhum) is still a bonus of course.

staxomega

#955
The first version of BWV1065 I've heard on piano that I liked quite a bit; it's really tasteful, any large swells in dynamics occur with the orchestral parts where it's obvious the harpsichords are supposed to do the same. It almost feels like a Russian ballet (especially in the Largo) or something and not JSB. Unusual and intriguing. Won't replace anyone's favorites on harpsichords.

I always imagined BWV1065 with harpsichords is what the black metal fans pictured as great classical music. Put this piano recording squarely in Mandryka/the black metal fans "Bach for babies"  ;D

Edit: for some fun - a fantasy black metal BWV1065 - Mahan Esfarhani, Jean Randeu, Peter Wachorn. Struggling to think of a fourth that would fit that group.


premont

Quote from: hvbias on November 12, 2020, 12:19:54 PM
Edit: for some fun - a fantasy black metal BWV1065 - Mahan Esfarhani, Jean Randeu, Peter Wachorn. Struggling to think of a fourth that would fit that group.

Richard Egarr?
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Handelian

Quote from: Mandryka on October 24, 2020, 01:30:34 PM
These things are a matter of degree.  A performer of Ravel is less an artist than a performer of Cage.

And the reasoning behind that statement please?

Mandryka

#958
Quote from: Handelian on November 13, 2020, 01:16:25 AM
And the reasoning behind that statement please?

Because in a lot of Cage's music there are many more things left to the performers' discretion.  Each performer's creativity is more engaged. The music with time brackets for example.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Handelian

Quote from: Mandryka on November 13, 2020, 02:11:14 AM
Because in a lot of Cage's music there are many more things left to the performers' discretion.  Each performer's creativity is more engaged. The music with time brackets for example.

That is of course if you consider Cage an artist who is worth spending your creativity on.