Bach on the piano

[staxomega]

This is an absolutely killer CD. The Bach is just as good as the Boulez and vice versa. I have Mandryka to thank for putting me onto it, and it's my turn now to recommend it to you all. Get it while it's cheap. I'll be seeking out more of Fray's recordings, he's a natural Bachian pianist I think. Kind of a legato heavy interpretation, not for everyone maybe.

--

For the second part of my post, I have a question for you all. The Partitas, I do not have a complete set. I have heard great things about the recent Angela Hewitt, has anyone heard it? I did not much like her earlier Bach recordings, but she's a little older now and probably does not play quite the same as she used to. My other contenders are Igor Levit and András Schiff (ECM).

I really like Andras Schiff's ECM recording of the Partitas, but I have not heard David Fray in anything other than in one Schubert disc so I'm not sure how it will compare.

Schiff's ECM recording is angular, pointed and he sounds so inspired. Whenever I put it on with the intent of hearing one or two it's hard not to listen to the rest.

Does anyone have suggestions for some of Rubsam's particularly good JS Bach piano performances? I was streaming the F sharp minor Toccata at the gym and found it quite provoking.

[Florestan]

Speaking of those over 60,  has the situation with your parents improved?

[ Your inbox is full again!]

YHM.

[Mandryka]

Does anyone have suggestions for some of Rubsam's particularly good JS Bach piano performances? I was streaming the F sharp minor Toccata at the gym and found it quite provoking.

French Suites,

[Jo498]

Anyway, are the 6 Partitas the apex of Bach's suites, or what? There is so much great, unique, life-affirming music in them.

As a collection they are my favorites. But one could argue that the b minor French ouverture from Clavierübung II and several of the English suites are as important (and on a larger scale than partitas 1,3,5). The French suites are small scale but also very nice; the three or four "odd" suites not part of collections (a minor in two versions, E flat major and maybe another one) are more for the completist, I'd say. Lute, Cello and violon are better in the original versions although lute harpsichord is my preference because I am not too fond of lute and guitar.

[staxomega]

French Suites,

Interesting performances, quite broad tempi throughout but I suppose it's expected with Rubsam. I found the fourth suite quite enjoyable, a poetic reading that is still sharply articulated. I found the 6th a bit of a let down, he has lost the singing, dance line in the Allemande and it sounds deconstructed. Now on the 5th suite and I have a similar feeling with the Allemande in it as well.

I have the CD of Toccatas on the way, I suppose I don't mind his style here as these pieces to me are more inward looking.

[Mandryka]

Interesting performances, quite broad tempi throughout but I suppose it's expected with Rubsam. I found the fourth suite quite enjoyable, a poetic reading that is still sharply articulated. I found the 6th a bit of a let down, he has lost the singing, dance line in the Allemande and it sounds deconstructed. Now on the 5th suite and I have a similar feeling with the Allemande in it as well.

I have the CD of Toccatas on the way, I suppose I don't mind his style here as these pieces to me are more inward looking.

I've never heard the toccatas CD, in fact I didn't know it existed until you mentiioned it. I'll check it out tomorrow.

[vers la flamme]

Is Rübsam's piano Bach good? I do not really like his lute-harpsichord Bach. But something makes me curious to hear him play Bach on a modern piano.

[vers la flamme]

I really like Andras Schiff's ECM recording of the Partitas, but I have not heard David Fray in anything other than in one Schubert disc so I'm not sure how it will compare.

Schiff's ECM recording is angular, pointed and he sounds so inspired. Whenever I put it on with the intent of hearing one or two it's hard not to listen to the rest.

Does anyone have suggestions for some of Rubsam's particularly good JS Bach piano performances? I was streaming the F sharp minor Toccata at the gym and found it quite provoking.

I ended up buying the Schiff/ECM. He is a damn fine pianist and I've never been less than impressed with one of his recordings. I really want to get my hands on his ECM WTC too, but it's expensive.

[Ratliff]

Is Rübsam's piano Bach good? I do not really like his lute-harpsichord Bach. But something makes me curious to hear him play Bach on a modern piano.

I like both.

I ended up buying the Schiff/ECM. He is a damn fine pianist and I've never been less than impressed with one of his recordings. I really want to get my hands on his ECM WTC too, but it's expensive.

I have his complete Bach on Decca, and I think they are wonderful recordings. (They were among the first Bach-on-piano recordings I have heard.) I have a few of the ECM recordings, and didn't find them to be an improvement.

[staxomega]

Is Rübsam's piano Bach good? I do not really like his lute-harpsichord Bach. But something makes me curious to hear him play Bach on a modern piano.

I think his piano recordings should be heard when you have already listened to loads of JSB on piano and are looking for something else. If there is one generalization to be made from what I've heard of his organ, harpsichord and now piano recordings is he likes broad tempi. Sometimes to the detriment of things sounding like they're coming to a stop. Still, he is a very serious musician and my reservations shouldn't hinder you from exploring his piano recordings. I was quite taken with the F sharp minor Toccata and streamed more of the Toccatas on my main system then quickly went to mash the order button.

In general with Rubsam (all instruments) I'd say it isn't music interpretation like Murray Perahia's 21st century recordings of Bach that are rounded, soft edged that anyone can pick up and enjoy.

I have been meaning to hear Schiff's interpretation of WTC on ECM. What I have heard from him on ECM is radically different from the bland Decca recordings. But of recent, whenever I think of WTC I play Jorg Demus' final recording which soars like a man who has 300 years of the WTC in his blood.

And after catching up on this thread my evening listening has been to more Bach on piano. I have to agree with Mandryka on Evgeni Koroliov's French Suites, one of my absolute favorites for these. Very tasteful ornaments, beautifully played and a Sarabande from the 6th Suite that melts my heart while still being music that is firmly baroque and not trying to make it 18th century piano music.

I also listened to some Bach organ transcriptions by Busoni played by John Ogdon and finally gave this a listen below, interesting music video. Can't say I've heard any organ interpretation that speeds it up like that towards the end. I haven't heard anything else from this pianist but I see there are many posts about him about the last time where I left off reading this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3-rNMhIyuQ

[j winter]

... whenever I think of WTC I play Jorg Demus' final recording which soars like a man who has 300 years of the WTC in his blood....

Now that's an interesting description.  Do you mean this one?

[Jo498]

Is Rübsam's piano Bach good? I do not really like his lute-harpsichord Bach. But something makes me curious to hear him play Bach on a modern piano.

It is very controversial and found excentric (mostly wayward and slow) by many listeners/commenters. At Naxos/used prices or streaming it is certainly worth trying out but, admittedly based on one disc only (partitas 5+6), I would not generally recommend it.

[Mandryka]

It is controversial and wayward. I don't believe it is slow, thought it is slower than many.

When it comes to modern piano recordings of music as early as this, questions about HIP are irrelevant. It's just not HIP! Given that, the question that matters most to me is this - is there here an interesting, revealing, intersection of music and performer? I think the answer is that there is in the French Suites,  for this reason. What Rubsam does is very expressive, tender, intimate, confidential. Like a token of love that Bach made to his wife. In truth I don't know a piano recording of these suites which I prefer, and maybe I like Rubsam the most, I'm not sure. I guess it depends on my mood.

I havent heard his recording of The English Suites or the toccatas, it's not music which I explore really. The partitas are a different kettle of fish from The French Suites, and I've already made some piano suggestions - Virginia Black, for example, and Hewitt II, and Nikolayeva.  But Rubsam is not without interest too in some of them, maybe more interest.

Is Rübsam's piano Bach good? I do not really like his lute-harpsichord Bach. But something makes me curious to hear him play Bach on a modern piano.

If you don't like the things he did on lute harpsichord then I think you should focus on the less contrapuntal music he recorded on piano, like the French Suites.

[amw]

It is controversial and wayward. I don't believe it is slow, thought it is slower than many.

It is definitely on the slow side but in e.g. the allemande from the D major partita Masaaki Suzuki is even slower & people do not generally take exception to his tempi. Rübsam's playing generally sounds slower and more disjunct than it really is.

I have the Partitas, Toccatas and English Suites from him; would not describe any of them as favourites but they are always worth hearing.

[Ratliff]

There are idiosyncratic tempo variations and other indulgences in Rubsam which I like.

[Mandryka]

There are idiosyncratic tempo variations and other indulgences in Rubsam which I like.

Do you think there are more "indulgeances" than in Suzuki, in the D major allemande for example? Or are his tempo variations less idiosyncratic?

[staxomega]

Now that's an interesting description.  Do you mean this one?

His final recording of WTC was made between 1999 and 2000.

It is definitely on the slow side but in e.g. the allemande from the D major partita Masaaki Suzuki is even slower & people do not generally take exception to his tempi. Rübsam's playing generally sounds slower and more disjunct than it really is.

I have the Partitas, Toccatas and English Suites from him; would not describe any of them as favourites but they are always worth hearing.

For more recent recordings Igor Levit also plays that Allemande that slowly. I don't mind this tempo and I enjoyed Rubsam in this one, I'll have to stream the rest of that disc.

I think it sounds slower because he adds these pauses here and there that, along with his tempi give people that impression. Though there are some organ recordings where the average is four or five minutes where he'll double that!

[Mandryka]

His final recording of WTC was made between 1999 and 2000.

For more recent recordings Igor Levit also plays that Allemande that slowly. I don't mind this tempo and I enjoyed Rubsam in this one, I'll have to stream the rest of that disc.

I think it sounds slower because he adds these pauses here and there that, along with his tempi give people that impression. Though there are some organ recordings where the average is four or five minutes where he'll double that!

Rubsam doesn't believe that the music is for dancing, so he can play it at a way which lets the listener really smell the roses. Levitt and Hewitt want to preserve the dance connection, I'm not sure why.

[Florestan]

Rubsam doesn't believe that the music is for dancing, so he can play it at a way which lets the listener really smell the roses. Levitt and Hewitt want to preserve the dance connection, I'm not sure why.

Because the movements are dances?

[Mandryka]

Because the movements are dances?

Dances which aren't for dancing.