Bach on the piano

Started by mn dave, November 13, 2008, 06:12:24 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Sammy

I have no problem with Bach harpsichord works on piano, but I draw the line with his organ works on piano.  What I love most about the organ is its majesty and strength (the KING of instruments).  Obviously, the piano is a puny substitute.

Karl Henning

But . . . whatever adjective other you may choose, Busoni transcriptions are not puny.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Mandryka

I know what you mean. But i've found a way of enjoying them in their own right. You know, you just have to try and forget the originals. They transcend the originals.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Opus106

Quote from: Mandryka on May 09, 2012, 09:53:29 AM
If you're still interested in organ preludes, I forgot the two of the best. First Paul Jacobs  recorded about 10 Busoni transcriptions, very well. The whole Cd is wonderful in fact, especially for the Brahms organ transcriptions.

The second is Cascioli, who recorded just a few, for DG. His sound is very distinctive - you can tell a Cascioli performance straight away.  He's a fine musician,  with ideas of his wn, who I would like to explore some more.

Yes, I'm still. Thank you. :)

Quote from: Sammy on May 09, 2012, 10:00:03 AM
I have no problem with Bach harpsichord works on piano, but I draw the line with his organ works on piano.  What I love most about the organ is its majesty and strength (the KING of instruments).  Obviously, the piano is a puny substitute.

If only Bach had had access to a modern concert grand... ::) ;)

Sometimes I'll also want to listen to the works for the puny instruments played on an organ. For instance, when a bass voice enters in a fugue.
Regards,
Navneeth

Karl Henning

Quote from: Mandryka on May 09, 2012, 10:03:02 AM
I know what you mean. But i've found a way of enjoying them in their own right. You know, you just have to try and forget the originals. They transcend the originals.

That's the idea, though I don't think one quite forgets the originals.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Sammy

Quote from: karlhenning on May 09, 2012, 10:02:25 AM
But . . . whatever adjective other you may choose, Busoni transcriptions are not puny.

True, but the instrument is as a substitute for the organ.

Leon

Thread duty: Koroliov and Gavrilov

Karl Henning

Quote from: Sammy on May 09, 2012, 10:44:42 AM
True, but the instrument is as a substitute for the organ.

Yes, but that has only become objectionable in this happy time of ample sound recordings; was a time that piano transcriptions of organ works did a service.  And the Liszt and Busoni transcriptions are art, as well as service.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Leo K.

#388
Quote from: Arnold on May 09, 2012, 10:49:44 AM
Thread duty: Koroliov and Gavrilov

I have some Gavrilov on the way, his French Suites and Goldbergs, and I can't wait. I haven't head his Bach at all  8)

Sammy

Quote from: karlhenning on May 09, 2012, 10:57:40 AM
Yes, but that has only become objectionable in this happy time of ample sound recordings; was a time that piano transcriptions of organ works did a service.  And the Liszt and Busoni transcriptions are art, as well as service.

True again, but that doesn't change the fact that those transcriptions don't work for me. :-*

Karl Henning

Fair enough. Sorry, lad!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Mandryka

Did JSB transcribe any organ music for (other) keyboards? Or move his own  music to the organ from clavichord or harpsichord?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Opus106

Quote from: Mandryka on May 09, 2012, 10:25:48 PM
Did JSB transcribe any organ music for (other) keyboards? Or move his own  music to the organ from clavichord or harpsichord?

I have the 4 duetti from CU3 played on a harpsichord, although I'm not sure if these were "authorised by Bach". If you also include works other than those for solo instruments, you have the organ part in the Sinfonia from BWV 146 playing the solo from the concerto, 1052.

Personally, I like to think that Bach freely played and transcribed whatever he could in any of his favourite instruments.
Regards,
Navneeth

premont

Quote from: Mandryka on May 09, 2012, 10:25:48 PM
Did JSB transcribe any organ music for (other) keyboards? Or move his own  music to the organ from clavichord or harpsichord?

The border between organ- and harpsichord/clavichord music was not fixed that clear in these days. Many pieces fall in the grey zone e.g. the manualiter pieces of CÜ III, the manualiter toccatas, the concerto transcriptions manualiter, the WTC to mention a few, which just being keyboard music work well on both instruments. So there was no need for transcription.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

premont

Quote from: Opus106 on May 09, 2012, 10:40:31 PM
I have the 4 duetti from CU3 played on a harpsichord, although I'm not sure if these were "authorised by Bach". If you also include works other than those for solo instruments, you have the organ part in the Sinfonia from BWV 146 playing the solo from the concerto, 1052.

Personally, I like to think that Bach freely played and transcribed whatever he could in any of his favourite instruments.

Both BWV 146 and BWV 1052 originate probably from an earlier concerto for violin and strings, and the harpsichord version was more likely transcribed from the violin version.

There are many examples of Bach transcribing from string- and wind instruments to keyboard instruments, but if anybody can mention an authentic example of the opposite (transcription from keyboard instrument to string or wind instrument) I would be glad to know.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

premont

#395
Quote from: Sammy on May 09, 2012, 12:09:41 PM
True again, but that doesn't change the fact that those transcriptions don't work for me. :-*

Neither do they generally work for me. However there are in my book a few exceptions, which first and foremost are relative litteral transcriptions for piano of orchestral and ensemble works, where the lack of instrumental colour makes one listen to the music in another way, with more attention to the musical movement, rhythm, and harmony. I think particularly of Max Reger´s arrangements of the Brandenburg concertos and the orchestral suites. And Liszt´s arrangements of LvB´s symphonies fall in a similar category. 
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Leo K.



This morning I'm very pleasantly surprised by Dinnerstein's Bach. A particulary thoughtful performance of the C minor Partita.  8)

Sammy

Quote from: Leo K on July 28, 2012, 06:48:09 AM


This morning I'm very pleasantly surprised by Dinnerstein's Bach. A particulary thoughtful performance of the C minor Partita.  8)

I very enjoyed her recording of the Goldberg Variations but haven't acquired her more recent discs.  I'm not sure why; I'll have to give that some thought.

Leo K.

Quote from: Sammy on July 28, 2012, 10:23:56 AM
I very enjoyed her recording of the Goldberg Variations but haven't acquired her more recent discs.  I'm not sure why; I'll have to give that some thought.

I haven't heard her GV account, but now I'm definitely going to seek it.


Leo K.

Quote from: Sammy on July 28, 2012, 10:23:56 AM
I very enjoyed her recording of the Goldberg Variations but haven't acquired her more recent discs.  I'm not sure why; I'll have to give that some thought.

Well I finally heard Dinnerstein's GV and I'm floored!