GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: offbeat on November 26, 2009, 09:47:26 AM

Title: Jean-Philippe Rameau
Post by: offbeat on November 26, 2009, 09:47:26 AM
My knowledge of Baroque music is very limited but whatever ive heard of Rameau i like - cant define what it is but it satisfies my sound buds - rather similar to Handel maybe.
Would like to start this thread as would like to know more about his music and i know there are a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum - tks  :)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: DarkAngel on November 26, 2009, 10:16:50 AM
The ideal starting point for Rameau would be to buy/rent the DVD of opera/ballet
Les Indes Galantes

This is truely one of the very best baroque DVDs ever made, great music, singing and tremendous cheeky fun!
Set design and costumes are wonderful and very good picture quality, conductor William Christie

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YQ12TDGDL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Opus106 on November 26, 2009, 10:24:09 AM
Thanks, offbeat. I was planning to start a thread on Rameau myself. Surprising that he did not have one until now. :)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Harry on November 26, 2009, 10:28:59 AM
O, yes Rameau, what a versatile composer, and what fun he can be! :)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Elgarian on November 26, 2009, 01:25:59 PM
The ideal starting point for Rameau would be to buy/rent the DVD of opera/ballet
Les Indes Galantes

This is truely one of the very best baroque DVDs ever made, great music, singing and tremendous cheeky fun!
Set design and costumes are wonderful and very good picture quality, conductor William Christie

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YQ12TDGDL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

DA says it like it is, truly - and here's another chance for me to post some of my favourite youtube clips of Les Indes Galantes. (Some people, I'm told, can manage to get through life without owning a copy of this DVD. Can't see how, myself.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zegtH-acXE&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zegtH-acXE&NR=1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIi_TvIvUdk&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIi_TvIvUdk&NR=1)



Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Elgarian on November 26, 2009, 01:30:17 PM
And for a CD that's simply delicious from beginning to end (in the course of which you will fall in love with Carolyn Sampson), try this:

(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571174471.png)

http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA67447&f=sampson%20rameau (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA67447&f=sampson%20rameau)

(Details and audio samples at the above link.)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: offbeat on November 26, 2009, 02:17:03 PM
tks to dark angel and elgarian
dont think i will be able to resist yr recommendations  :)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Elgarian on November 26, 2009, 02:54:49 PM
dont think i will be able to resist yr recommendations  :)

Don't even try to, is my advice.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: vandermolen on November 26, 2009, 03:27:46 PM
Am not much of a Baroque listener but coincidentally just bought my first Rameau CD, containing 'Le Temple de la Gloire'. I have been after this music for years since I heard it used as background for a TV drama/doc 'Artists and Models' about the Neoclassical painter Jacques Louis David. I never knew what it was, but fortunately heard it on the radio a couple of weeks ago and so discovered the composer. The relevant section is the Overture - surprisingly modern in a way - recommended with enthusiasm.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Novi on November 26, 2009, 04:38:50 PM
I'm not too familiar with Rameau's oeuvre, but found Rousset's Overtures with Les Talens Lyriques a great place to start. I picked the disc up quite randomly whilst browsing in a bricks-and-mortar a few years ago knowing little of baroque music and ended up loving it:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Q5BMR8QZL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I think I'm ready for his operas now, so will keep an eye on this thread. :) I only have Christie's Zoroastre, which I must revisit soon - I remember liking bits of it, but not being too engaged in those early days. :-\ I do like the clips of Les Indes Galantes though.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Josquin des Prez on November 26, 2009, 06:13:39 PM
His keyboard music is among the greatest ever written during that era (my favored recordings are these by Scott Ross), its a pity he abandoned the medium in his later years. Underrated among his works is a set of pieces for harpsichord and chamber instruments.  Rousset issued a recording of it which is very good.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: sTisTi on November 29, 2009, 08:38:32 AM
His keyboard music is among the greatest ever written during that era (my favored recordings are these by Scott Ross), its a pity he abandoned the medium in his later years. Underrated among his works is a set of pieces for harpsichord and chamber instruments.  Rousset issued a recording of it which is very good.
Do you mean this one?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51rxYyfo7oL._SS500_.jpg)
I enjoy this disc very much!
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: SonicMan46 on November 29, 2009, 09:05:15 AM
Well, much can be suggested, but just to provide a few more 'keyboard' recommendations; the 2 discs w/ Sophie Yates on the harpsichord are superb - excellent recommendations in Fanfare -  :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/RameauYates2/549639212_R7sqm-O-2.jpg)   (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/RameauYates1/549639204_P4xcN-O.jpg)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Antoine Marchand on November 29, 2009, 09:55:30 AM
Do you mean this one?
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51rxYyfo7oL._SS500_.jpg)
I enjoy this disc very much!

That CD is a totally wonderful recording of those Pièces de Clavecin en Concerts!... and rather cheap for more pleasure. I like those evocative names: La Livri, La Timide, L'Indiscrète

http://www.youtube.com/v/9jr_3VGXWj0
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Opus106 on November 29, 2009, 10:07:15 AM
Has anyone heard the fairly recent set on Brilliant (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Jean-Philippe-Rameau-Cembalowerke-Ges-Aufn/hnum/8175932) yet?
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: madaboutmahler on November 05, 2013, 02:46:19 PM
Have been listening to Rameau this evening and my gosh, what fabulous music!!

Love this disc:



Absolutely loved everything here!!!! And what a gem the funeral march from Castor et Pollux is.. absolutely divine. I look forward to listening to this disc many more times. :)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: TheGSMoeller on November 05, 2013, 02:51:17 PM
Have been listening to Rameau this evening and my gosh, what fabulous music!!

Love this disc:



Absolutely loved everything here!!!! And what a gem the funeral march from Castor et Pollux is.. absolutely divine. I look forward to listening to this disc many more times. :)

Good to hear you love this disc, Daniel. You should give the entire Castor et Pollux opera a spin, you wont be disappointed.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: madaboutmahler on November 05, 2013, 03:15:00 PM
Good to hear you love this disc, Daniel. You should give the entire Castor et Pollux opera a spin, you wont be disappointed.

Thanks, Greg. Will certainly be keen to at some point! The funeral music is something special definitely.  0:) Which performance do you recommend for Les Indes Galantes? :)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: TheGSMoeller on November 05, 2013, 03:39:49 PM
Thanks, Greg. Will certainly be keen to at some point! The funeral music is something special definitely.  0:) Which performance do you recommend for Les Indes Galantes? :)

For orchestral suite, Bruggen...




For complete opera, go for the DVD performance with Christie and Petibon...




Those are my recs, but GMG has a good amount of Rameau fans that I'm sure can offer other solid recs. I will also add that Rameau composed my absolute favorite keyboard music. Don't wait too long to explore it.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: madaboutmahler on November 06, 2013, 11:02:01 AM
For orchestral suite, Bruggen...



Those are my recs, but GMG has a good amount of Rameau fans that I'm sure can offer other solid recs. I will also add that Rameau composed my absolute favorite keyboard music. Don't wait too long to explore it.

Thanks, Greg - shall not wait long at all! :D
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: North Star on November 06, 2013, 11:15:10 AM
Excellent to see you've found Rameau's music, Daniel!
Here's some piano Rameau from Tharaud, wonderful stuff. :)
http://www.youtube.com/v/flI9ASqq5Mk   http://www.youtube.com/v/66ANf2LVdQs


And see here for the complete Les Indes Galantes:

http://www.youtube.com/v/eTsBgsPrdLQ
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: madaboutmahler on November 06, 2013, 01:04:31 PM
Excellent to see you've found Rameau's music, Daniel!
Here's some piano Rameau from Tharaud, wonderful stuff. :)
http://www.youtube.com/v/flI9ASqq5Mk   http://www.youtube.com/v/66ANf2LVdQs


Listening to these now, absolutely gorgeous music. :) I love Tharaud's Chopin so I'm very glad to be hearing him play Rameau. Thanks, Karlo. :)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Cato on November 06, 2013, 01:58:11 PM
Not to be forgotten:

http://www.youtube.com/v/NybTtlHiFbk

and of course:

http://www.youtube.com/v/gvuWhPUSSn8
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: madaboutmahler on November 06, 2013, 02:36:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/gvuWhPUSSn8

Well, this is fabulous - I don't want to stop listening to it!! :D
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Cato on November 06, 2013, 02:48:26 PM
Well, this is fabulous - I don't want to stop listening to it!! :D

MadaboutRameau!   :D

c. 3 1/2 minutes of absolute fun!
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Octave on November 07, 2013, 05:04:07 AM
Is there a strongly favored recording of PYGMALION/PIGMALION among the Rameau lovers here?  The three I've really been looking at are Niquet, Christie, and Leonhardt. 
Title: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: TheGSMoeller on November 07, 2013, 05:09:20 AM

Is there a strongly favored recording of PYGMALION/PIGMALION among the Rameau lovers here?  The three I've really been looking at are Niquet, Christie, and Leonhardt.

I really like the Niquet, and for a bonus you can find this 2-fer and get a disc of Rameau's Motets.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/07/6yrymahy.jpg)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on July 11, 2014, 03:29:47 AM
2014 marks the 250th anniversary of Rameau's death (comme le temps s'envole!).  Fans may be interested in the Bibliothèque Nationale de France's many resources devoted to the composer inc: treatises and manuscripts as well as about twenty early recordings you can listen to online:   http://lettre-gallica.bnf.fr/jean-philippe-rameau . 

See also the site of the Centre de Musique Baroque de Versailles - they are coordinating many of the activities of the sestercentennial:   http://www.rameau2014.fr/2014#712
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Ken B on July 11, 2014, 05:20:40 AM
2014 marks the 250th anniversary of Rameau's death (comme le temps s'envole!).  Fans may be interested in the Bibliothèque Nationale de France's many resources devoted to the composer inc: treatises and manuscripts as well as about twenty early recordings you can listen to online:   http://lettre-gallica.bnf.fr/jean-philippe-rameau . 

See also the site of the Centre de Musique Baroque de Versailles - they are coordinating many of the activities of the sestercentennial:   http://www.rameau2014.fr/2014#712
Did you see the big Rameau box in the new releases?
With the Seon box I might end up passing, but it looks tasty.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on July 11, 2014, 08:27:00 AM
Did you see the big Rameau box in the new releases?
With the Seon box I might end up passing, but it looks tasty.

No, but sounds like something I need and needs must pursue.  I hope the Tombeau de Rameau (sic) will not make me owe...
Title: Jean Phillippe Rameau's Ramshackle Residence
Post by: jlaurson on August 04, 2014, 03:03:57 AM

Notes from the 2014 Salzburg Festival ( 3 )
Ouverture spirituelle • William Christie & Les Arts Florissant: Rameau and Mondonville: Motets

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kbBJMf2qoKg/U85r_6z2dcI/AAAAAAAAHeM/BDnyUcuWMIM/s1600/notesfromthesalzburgfestival2014.gif)


(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZEhoguS6VeM/U95jLpqWTTI/AAAAAAAAHg8/VURey1zozgs/s1600/Salzburg_William-Christie_Motets_(c)_Denis-Rouvre_laurson_600.jpg) (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2014/08/notes-from-2014-salzburg-festival-3.html)

Quote
Jolly Grand Motets

William Christie, the American gentleman early music pioneer, dapper and smiling like Michael Caine on a good day, led his band of splendid musicians, Les Arts Florissant, in a quartet of Grand Motets by Jean-Philippe Rameau and Jean-Joseph Cassanéa de Mondonville in the Salzburg University’s Collegiate Church. After having missed the apparently beyond-spectacular Gardiner/mco_London Monteverdi performance at the Salzburg cathedral, I wasn’t going to take any chances missing another Overture spirituelle concert of early music in sacred setting… not that I would have missed...
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 11, 2014, 02:14:31 PM
Is there a strongly favored recording of PYGMALION/PIGMALION among the Rameau lovers here?  The three I've really been looking at are Niquet, Christie, and Leonhardt.

I have all three, and my favorite is Leonhardt's (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Pygmalion-Jean-Philippe/dp/B00000E6V5) – with Niquet's (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Name/Stephan-Imbodem/Performer/131240-2) coming in a very close second. I think Christie's (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Pygmalion-Nelee-Myrthis/dp/B0017TZ90O) is OK, but I'm not a huge fan of his conducting as I find it can be a little hard-driven and relentless. (My favourite conductor for Rameau is Frans Brüggen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frans_Br%C3%BCggen).)

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/048/MI0001048512.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Pygmalion-Jean-Philippe/dp/B00000E6V5)

Some people have rather helpfully posted all three versions of Pygmalion – plus a live version from William Christie – in their entirety on YouTube, so you can hear for yourself the differences and choose which one you prefer:

Rameau - Pygmalion (La Petite Bande / Gustav Leonhardt)
http://www.youtube.com/v/gVzbiKNEbUw
Trivia: There's a dodgy edit in the Ouverture, at 3:23. It's not a fault in the CD, it's part of
the recording. I'm a bit surprised that no-one involved in the recording noticed and/or
corrected it. (Maybe it couldn't be fixed.)




Rameau - Pigmalion (Le Concert Spirituel / Herve Niquet)
http://www.youtube.com/v/9KKl3TpXlKo



Rameau - Pygmalion (Les Arts Florissants / William Christie)
http://www.youtube.com/v/mKJ9bR3Osos



Rameau - Pygmalion (Les Arts Florissants / William Christie) (live)
http://www.youtube.com/v/n1SzKPjHL1I
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 11, 2014, 05:04:57 PM
The ideal starting point for Rameau would be to buy/rent the DVD of opera/ballet
Les Indes Galantes

This is truely one of the very best baroque DVDs ever made, great music, singing and tremendous cheeky fun!
Set design and costumes are wonderful and very good picture quality, conductor William Christie

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YQ12TDGDL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

DA says it like it is, truly - and here's another chance for me to post some of my favourite youtube clips of Les Indes Galantes. (Some people, I'm told, can manage to get through life without owning a copy of this DVD. Can't see how, myself.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zegtH-acXE&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zegtH-acXE&NR=1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIi_TvIvUdk&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIi_TvIvUdk&NR=1)

I'm with DarkAngel (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=profile;u=332) and Elgarian (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=profile;u=1247). If you have a spare three hours*, I reckon Les Indes Galantes is probably the best way to get to know Rameau. It's a never-ending stream of great melodies and visual spectacle.

Les Indes Galantes has been posted on YouTube in two parts.

Enjoy!

Rameau - Les Indes Galantes (Les Arts Florissants - William Christie) (Part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/v/C6S_0BMkAyk

Rameau - Les Indes Galantes (Les Arts Florissants - William Christie) (Part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/v/NsTt80d0hH0



(*If you can only spare 45 minutes, then Frans Brüggen's single disc of Les Indes Galantes excerpts (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Les-Indes-Galantes-Suite/dp/B000FG5PJA) would definitely be the way to go.)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: TheGSMoeller on October 11, 2014, 05:26:34 PM
Great rec, Pop. I have that Galantes DVD along with theLes Boréades DVD, both amazingly enjoyable. I'm always looking for a third one to purchase, not sure which one. There's a new Hippolyte et Aricie blue ray I've got my eye on, the production looks extreme!  8)


Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 11, 2014, 05:44:45 PM
Great rec, Pop. I have that Galantes DVD along with theLes Boréades DVD, both amazingly enjoyable. I'm always looking for a third one to purchase, not sure which one. There's a new Hippolyte et Aricie blue ray I've got my eye on, the production looks extreme!  8)



Hey, TheGSMoeller: I'm not at all keen on that particular production (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Hippolyte-Blu-ray-Stephane-Degout/dp/B00KQHWB40) of Hippolyte et Aricie. Admittedly, I've only seen the first two acts (so far), but for me the set design and direction all add up to a big pile of "What were they thinking?"

Instead, I'd like to point you in the direction of the DVD of Les Paladins (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Paladins-Lehtipuu-dOustrac-Gonzalez-Toroi/dp/B000BOFRM6):

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Hgo-UjfiL.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Paladins-Lehtipuu-dOustrac-Gonzalez-Toroi/dp/B000BOFRM6)

It's another one of those productions that visually is nonsense and has nothing to do with the Baroque (I don't think there were trampolines and trains in the Baroque era), but I found it thoroughly enjoyable nonsense.

(Slight Warning: It does contain a bit of harmless nudity.)

Courtesy of YouTube, here's a taste of the DVD:

http://www.youtube.com/v/frpd5f0VUvo
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: TheGSMoeller on October 11, 2014, 05:58:00 PM
Hey, TheGSMoeller: I'm not at all keen on that production of Hippolyte et Aricie (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Hippolyte-Blu-ray-Stephane-Degout/dp/B00KQHWB40). Admittedly, I've only seen the first two acts (so far), but for me the set design and direction all add up to a big pile of "What were they thinking?"

Instead, I'd like to point you in the direction of the DVD of Les Paladins (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Paladins-Lehtipuu-dOustrac-Gonzalez-Toroi/dp/B000BOFRM6):

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Hgo-UjfiL.jpg)[url]

It's another one of those productions that visually is nonsense and has nothing to do with the Baroque (I don't think there were trampolines and trains in the Baroque era), but I found it thoroughly enjoyable nonsense.

(Slight Warning: It does contain a bit of all-in-good-fun nudity.)

Courtesy of YouTube, here's a taste of the DVD:

http://www.youtube.com/v/frpd5f0VUvo
 (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Paladins-Lehtipuu-dOustrac-Gonzalez-Toroi/dp/B000BOFRM6)

The Paladins DVD might be a better route anyway considering it's one of Rameau's operas I don't own. This could kill two birds with one disc.  ;D

Thanks again, friend!
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 11, 2014, 06:30:25 PM
The Paladins DVD might be a better route anyway considering it's one of Rameau's operas I don't own. This could kill two birds with one disc.  ;D

Thanks again, friend!

No problem.

There's also Zoroastre on Blu-ray (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Zoroastre-Blu-ray-Christophe-Rousset/dp/B001D068XY). It can't compete with the Christie extravaganzas – this Zoroastre is a modest production, and fairly austere – but it is on Blu-ray. (And it is Zoroastre, my second favourite Rameau opera after Les Boréades).

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YaO0VHiVL.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Zoroastre-Blu-ray-Christophe-Rousset/dp/B001D068XY)

By the way, the DVD production of Platée has just been released on Blu-ray.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZL68PaWoL.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Jean-Philippe-Rameau-Plat%C3%83%C2%A9e-Marc-Minkowski/dp/B00LGNUICK)

I'm in no hurry to get it, though, because it's been upscaled (it wasn't originally recorded in High Definition).

However...

It's Rameau. On Blu-ray.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 11, 2014, 10:11:10 PM
And the Rameau DVDs keep on a-comin'...

Released 15 September 2014:

Rameau - Hippolyte et Aricie (Le Concert d'Astrée / Emmanuelle Haïm)

2 DVD
Running time: 180 minutes
Barcode: 0825646229178

(http://opdwarner.com/sites/wmgtmseu01.prod.acquia-sites.com/files/styles/med/public/Hippolyte%20Cover%20low%20res.jpg) (http://www.warnerclassics.com/shop/3251821,0825646229178/emmanuelle-haim-rameau-hippolyte-et-aricie)

http://www.warnerclassics.com/shop/3251821,0825646229178/emmanuelle-haim-rameau-hippolyte-et-aricie (http://www.warnerclassics.com/shop/3251821,0825646229178/emmanuelle-haim-rameau-hippolyte-et-aricie)


Blurb on the Warner Classics website (http://www.warnerclassics.com/shop/3251821,0825646229178/emmanuelle-haim-rameau-hippolyte-et-aricie):

"In this DVD recorded live at the Paris Opéra Palais Garnier, Emmanuelle Haïm is joined by the orchestra of Le Concert d’Astrée on period instruments, as well stellar cast including Sarah Connolly as Phèdre, Stéphane Degout as Thésée, Anne-Catherine Gillet as Aricie and Topi Lehtipuu as Hippolyte in the acclaimed production from Ivan Alexandre."


Excerpts:

Acte I - Temple sacré, séjour tranquille
http://www.youtube.com/v/E-OJF_PmHOs

Acte II - Trio des Parques
http://www.youtube.com/v/wZdrNY_TA78

Acte II - Air Thésée
http://www.youtube.com/v/W-5qzH0d2Hg

Acte III - Récit & Air de Thésée
http://www.youtube.com/v/nS_KXRFASps

Acte IV - A la chasse!
http://www.youtube.com/v/-OksrK1ulHg


Photos from the production:

(http://operachic.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451c83e69e20112793ea81028a4-450wi) (http://operachic.typepad.com/opera_chic/2009/03/shoot-the-moon-emmanuelle-ha%C3%AFm-does-rameau.html)
[Opera Chic (http://operachic.typepad.com/opera_chic/2009/03/shoot-the-moon-emmanuelle-ha%C3%AFm-does-rameau.html)]

(http://operachic.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451c83e69e201127940ac7a28a4-800wi) (http://operachic.typepad.com/opera_chic/2009/03/kiss-the-sky-more-hippolyte-et-aricie.html)
[Opera Chic (http://operachic.typepad.com/opera_chic/2009/03/kiss-the-sky-more-hippolyte-et-aricie.html)]

(http://operachic.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451c83e69e2011168cbc776970c-800wi) (http://operachic.typepad.com/opera_chic/2009/03/shoot-the-moon-emmanuelle-ha%C3%AFm-does-rameau.html)
[Opera Chic (http://operachic.typepad.com/opera_chic/2009/03/kiss-the-sky-more-hippolyte-et-aricie.html)]

(http://www.arte.tv/cdnp-concert/sites/default/files/styles/alw_rectangle_1176/public/atoms/image/20140908/2011-12-hippo-328.jpg) (http://www.pinterest.com/pin/241927811208385243/)
[Arte.tv via Pinterest (http://www.pinterest.com/pin/241927811208385243/)]

(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/originals/3b/95/af/3b95af1b2c341f88907ea8e17fa9bb4a.jpg) (http://www.pinterest.com/pin/238690848971431560/)
[The New York Times via Pinterest (http://www.pinterest.com/pin/238690848971431560/)]


That's more like it.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: TheGSMoeller on October 12, 2014, 03:41:56 AM
I like the look of that Hippolyte. I'll put that one in my wish list right next to the Paladins DVD.  :)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: ritter on October 12, 2014, 06:22:34 AM
This curiosity might be of interest to those who like Rameau and Mahler...just listen to the first bars, and see if it rings a bell  ;) :

http://www.youtube.com/v/na8N0uB1Dnc
Acante et Céphise: Ouverture

Pure coincidence (I really doubt that Mahler ever had access to this music), but odd in any case...

Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 12, 2014, 01:43:33 PM
This curiosity might be of interest to those who like Rameau and Mahler...just listen to the first bars, and see if it rings a bell  ;) :

http://www.youtube.com/v/na8N0uB1Dnc
Acante et Céphise: Ouverture

Pure coincidence (I really doubt that Mahler ever had access to this music), but odd in any case...

Unfortunately, I'm unfamiliar with Mahler's works. (I once heard Mahler's 1st symphony (http://youtu.be/5c1RDalpXuA) years ago and enjoyed it, but that's it.)

Could you be a bit more specific for us Mahler neophytes?
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 12, 2014, 01:54:23 PM
I like the look of that Hippolyte. ...

Same here. I'm wishin' and a-hopin' that'll be released on Blu-ray soon.

Quote
... I'll put that one in my wish list right next to the Paladins DVD.  :)

Excellent.

I think that if you had the DVDs of Les Indes Galantes (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Galantes-Hartelius-Christie-Florissants/dp/B0009S4EQO), Les Paladins (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Paladins-Lehtipuu-dOustrac-Gonzalez-Toroi/dp/B000BOFRM6), and now the new Hippolyte et Aricie (http://www.warnerclassics.com/shop/3251821,0825646229178/emmanuelle-haim-rameau-hippolyte-et-aricie), you'd be good to go with Rameau.

(Or, as advertising people might put it: You're Good To Go With Rameau!™)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: North Star on October 12, 2014, 10:12:30 PM
Unfortunately, I'm unfamiliar with Mahler's works. (I once heard Mahler's 1st symphony (http://youtu.be/5c1RDalpXuA) years ago and enjoyed it, but that's it.)

Could you be a bit more specific for us Mahler neophytes?
The opening of the Sixth Symphony.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 13, 2014, 01:16:12 AM
The opening of the Sixth Symphony.

Thanks.

Let's see...

http://www.youtube.com/v/na8N0uB1Dnc

http://www.youtube.com/v/Zvfh_mjPLlQ

Hmm.

Yep, they both start off going chug-chug-chug-chug...
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: TheGSMoeller on October 14, 2014, 08:41:13 AM
My first time hearing Kudritskaya perform Rameau, here with Gavotte et six Doubles.


http://www.youtube.com/v/HuJ-LKEH6W0
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: JCBuckley on October 15, 2014, 09:16:05 AM
My first time hearing Kudritskaya perform Rameau, here with Gavotte et six Doubles.


Gorgeous - thank you. Unfortunately her Rameau CD is available in the UK only as a wickedly expensive import. Next time I'm in Paris . . .
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: TheGSMoeller on October 15, 2014, 12:56:14 PM
Gorgeous - thank you. Unfortunately her Rameau CD is available in the UK only as a wickedly expensive import. Next time I'm in Paris . . .

Gorgeous, indeed.
I purchased a track from iTunes to check the quality and it seems just fine, so I'll probably download the rest this evening. Looking forward to a full listen of this album.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 15, 2014, 03:35:32 PM
Gorgeous - thank you. Unfortunately her Rameau CD is available in the UK only as a wickedly expensive import. Next time I'm in Paris . . .

Natacha Kudritskaya's Rameau disc is available in a few places, but you're right – it's expensive:

Natacha Kudritskaya - Rameau (CD)
Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rameau-Par-Natacha-Kudritskaya/dp/B00A0VVQAM) (£19.58)
Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Par-Natacha-Kudritskaya/dp/B00A0VVQAM) ($33.59)
Amazon.fr (http://www.amazon.fr/Rameau-Par-Natacha-Kudritskaya/dp/B00A0VVQAM) (EUR 12,99)
ArkivMusic (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=986525) ($34.99)
CD Universe (http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=8886008) ($35.49)
eBay (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Rameau+Natacha+Kudritskaya&_sacat=0) (prices from $30.96 to $65.59 – eep!)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71YI4G1JPmL._SL1500_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81DOLQN%2B6nL._SL1500_.jpg)

As for downloads:

Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Natacha-Kudritskaya/dp/B00ABUGZ2G/ref=dp_olp_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1413414844&sr=1-1) – MP3 ($9.49)
emusic (http://www.emusic.com/album/natacha-kudritskaya/rameau-suite-en-re-suite-en-la/13847665/) – MP3 ($9.99)
iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/au/album/rameau-suites-pour-le-piano/id580519192) ($18.99)
Qobuz (http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/rameau-natacha-kudritskaya-piano/3760002140711) – CD Quality (Lossless 16 bit/44.1 kHz) (£9.99) / Studio Masters Quality (24 bit) (£14.99)
7digital (http://www.7digital.com/artist/natacha-kudritskaya) – MP3 (£7.92)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: TheGSMoeller on October 15, 2014, 04:08:10 PM
Natacha Kudritskaya's Rameau disc is available in a few places, but you're right – it's expensive:

As for downloads:

iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/au/album/rameau-suites-pour-le-piano/id580519192) ($18.99)


My iTunes is showing up $10.99.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 15, 2014, 04:33:18 PM
My iTunes is showing up $10.99.

Ah, the perils of me living in Australia. (Why, iTunes, why?)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: TheGSMoeller on October 15, 2014, 04:38:58 PM
Ah, the perils of me living in Australia. (Why, iTunes, why?)

Oh that's right, I forgot they have different prices. Bummer  :-[
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 15, 2014, 04:41:12 PM
Oh that's right, I forgot they have different prices. Bummer  :-[

Yep. But I don't buy downloads if I can help it (especially not low-bitrate MP3s). I'm a CD guy through and through.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: TheGSMoeller on October 15, 2014, 04:56:58 PM
Yep. But I don't buy downloads if I can help it (especially not low-bitrate MP3s). I'm a CD guy through and through.

100% me as well. With the only exception being single tracks or, as with the case of Kudritskaya, the digital copy's price is too tempting, plus Qobuz having lossless for around $14 dollars is another factor.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 15, 2014, 05:08:44 PM
100% me as well. With the only exception being single tracks or, as with the case of Kudritskaya, the digital copy's price is too tempting, plus Qobuz having lossless for around $14 dollars is another factor.

Unfortunately for me, whenever I go to Qobuz and look at the goodies on display I'm greeted with a "Qobuz is not available for your country" message.

And unfortunately for you, those Qobuz prices are in British pounds, not dollars.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: ritter on October 16, 2014, 05:19:46 AM
Gorgeous - thank you. Unfortunately her Rameau CD is available in the UK only as a wickedly expensive import. Next time I'm in Paris . . .



This CD is being offered for 13 € in AmFr (best price I've seen anywhere)... Needless to say, I got it!  :) Everyone says it's outstanding; thanks for the tip, GMGers!
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 26, 2014, 12:26:19 AM



This CD is being offered for 13 € in AmFr (best price I've seen anywhere)... Needless to say, I got it!  :) Everyone says it's outstanding; thanks for the tip, GMGers!

Here's the link:

http://www.amazon.fr/Rameau-Par-Natacha-Kudritskaya/dp/B00A0VVQAM (http://www.amazon.fr/Rameau-Par-Natacha-Kudritskaya/dp/B00A0VVQAM)

And the CD is still €13. (Well, €12.99 if you want to get pedantic.)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: JCBuckley on October 26, 2014, 10:20:33 AM
I've had this CD sitting in my Amazon basket for the past week. Price has been dropping by £1 a day on average, and has now fallen from around £20 to £11. Time to press Buy, I reckon.

Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: ritter on October 28, 2014, 02:31:00 PM
(http://assets4.classicfm.com/2014/42/rameau-the-sound-of-light-currentzis-1414165542-old-article-0.jpg)

Oh, the thought of Currentzis/MusicAeterna performing Rameau gives me chills. I love seeing new Rameau recordings.  8)
I saw this CD for sale in Berlin last week, and then again in Madrid over the weekend, and almost got it, but then thought: "Hey, wait a minute! Those videos Peter Power Pop posted do seem rushed, and what's the point of a Rameau bleeding chunks (or rather, morceaux sanglants--an overture here, an air there, a rigaudon further down) CD anyway?" So, I haven't succumbed so far... Has anyone gone for it? Just curious...
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Peter Power Pop on October 28, 2014, 06:56:27 PM
(http://keynoteartistmanagement.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/88843082572-cover2-e1413916829954-410x369.jpg) (http://www.classicfm.com/composers/jean-philippe-rameau/album-reviews/sound-of-light-currentzis/)

I saw this CD for sale in Berlin last week, and then again in Madrid over the weekend, and almost got it, but then thought: "Hey, wait a minute! Those videos Peter Power Pop posted do seem rushed, and what's the point of a Rameau bleeding chunks (or rather, morceaux sanglants--an overture here, an air there, a rigaudon further down) CD anyway?" So, I haven't succumbed so far... Has anyone gone for it? Just curious...

From what I've heard of Teodor Currentzis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teodor_Currentzis), he sounds like the kind of conductor who emphasizes dynamics where it may be completely unnecessary to do so. (Although I like his recording of Purcell's Dido and Aeneas (http://www.amazon.com/Dido-Aeneas-H-Purcell/dp/B001GDJ9IY).)

Exaggerated dynamics is something that occasionally bothers me. It's happens a lot with the current crop of conductors who tend to specialize in the Italian Baroque. To me, those conductors sound like they're EXAGGERATING things for the SAKE of it, or just to be DIFFERENT. It's like talking to someone, and when they speak they SHOUT at the oddest MOMENTS. ("Hi Bob, it's GREAT! to SEE! you. HOW'S! the WIFE! and kids?" etc.)

As for "Rameau bleeding chunks", that reminds me of the Marc Minkowski Rameau disc, Une Symphonie Imaginaire (http://youtu.be/NHMtRnu3I0o). I don't enjoy it much because I find it too bitty. ("Let's just take out a bit from this opera, a bit from that opera, take some other bits from here and there, orchestrate a keyboard piece, and release it as an album.") The same goes for Christophe Rousset's disc of Rameau overtures (http://www.amazon.com/Rameau-Overtures-Jean-Philippe/dp/B000004CYY). A disc of nothing but overtures from Rameau's operas doesn't seem (to me, anyway) to give a decent overview of Rameau as an orchestral composer.

Having typed all of that, I must admit that I really like this CD (http://www.amazon.com/Jean-Philippe-Rameau-mortels-servent-mod%C3%A8le/dp/B001Q8UPBY):

(http://cover7.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/75/1248075.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Jean-Philippe-Rameau-mortels-servent-mod%C3%A8le/dp/B001Q8UPBY)

It's a disc of excerpts from two of Rameau's operas (Zaïs and Zoroastre), but the tracks are arranged in a way that gives the listener a great picture of Rameau the composer. (It's also played beautifully, and sounds great.)

But back to Mr. Currentzis. He (or his record company) is apparently trying to build up his reputation as classical music's enfant terrible. (Just like Nigel Kennedy (http://www.nigel-kennedy.net/) a generation ago.) This article in The Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/classicalmusic/3647876/I-will-save-classical-music.html) paints him as a determined young chap.

http://www.youtube.com/v/tccxRjtuXHk

http://www.youtube.com/v/6vZ9HPXeLfs
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Moonfish on December 01, 2014, 06:05:59 PM
Rameau: Vingtième anniversaire des Musiciens du Louvre | Marc Minkowski

I had a great afternoon watching/listening to Rameau's works in this performance.
I loved the subtle but powerful drums starting out the concert. The performance is a two hour anthology of excerpts from Rameau's works featuring a large number of soloists. Magdalena Kozena did a wonderful job among many others. I was actually quite enchanted by the selections. Minkowski conducted with grace. Recommended!

https://www.youtube.com/v/uKepYByDoqk
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: PeterWillem on January 31, 2016, 02:15:52 AM
This might be of interest:
(http://www.erato-warnerclassics.fr/var/emi/storage/images/classique/erato-warner-classics/site-web/actualites/anniversaire-rameau-le-coffret-opera-27cd-l-aeuvre-pour-clavier-par-marcelle-meyer/1172866-6-fre-FR/Anniversaire-Rameau-le-coffret-opera-27CD-l-aeuvre-pour-clavier-par-Marcelle-Meyer1_actu-image.jpg)

RAMEAU
CD 1–3 Hippolyte et Aricie – William Christie
CD 4–6 Les Indes galantes – Jean-François Paillard
CD 7–9 Castor et Pollux – Nikolaus Harnoncourt
CD 10 & 11 Les Fêtes d’Hébé – William Christie
CD 12 & 13 Dardanus – Raymond Leppard
CD 14 & 15 Platée – Marc Minkowski
CD 16 Pigmalion – Nicholas McGegan
CD 17 Les Surprises de l’Amour – Marc Minkowski
CD 18 & 19 Naïs – Nicholas McGegan
CD 20–22 Zoroastre – William Christie
CD 23 La Guirlande – William Christie
CD 24 Zéphyre – William Christie
CD 25–27 Les Boréades – John Eliot Gardiner
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Monsieur Croche on January 31, 2016, 03:44:20 AM
This might be of interest:
(http://www.erato-warnerclassics.fr/var/emi/storage/images/classique/erato-warner-classics/site-web/actualites/anniversaire-rameau-le-coffret-opera-27cd-l-aeuvre-pour-clavier-par-marcelle-meyer/1172866-6-fre-FR/Anniversaire-Rameau-le-coffret-opera-27CD-l-aeuvre-pour-clavier-par-Marcelle-Meyer1_actu-image.jpg)

RAMEAU
CD 1–3 Hippolyte et Aricie – William Christie
CD 4–6 Les Indes galantes – Jean-François Paillard
CD 7–9 Castor et Pollux – Nikolaus Harnoncourt
CD 10 & 11 Les Fêtes d’Hébé – William Christie
CD 12 & 13 Dardanus – Raymond Leppard
CD 14 & 15 Platée – Marc Minkowski
CD 16 Pigmalion – Nicholas McGegan
CD 17 Les Surprises de l’Amour – Marc Minkowski
CD 18 & 19 Naïs – Nicholas McGegan
CD 20–22 Zoroastre – William Christie
CD 23 La Guirlande – William Christie
CD 24 Zéphyre – William Christie
CD 25–27 Les Boréades – John Eliot Gardiner
First, the album on the left reminded me that... anyone not familiar with Marcel Meyer's musicianship should run to any recordings of hers they can find, whether that be Rameau, Scarlatti, or Debussy. She was a consummate pianist and musician.

To the main deal here, imo Rameau is a composer who is at the very least of equal greatness to J.S. Bach, and this looks to be a great bundle of works and performances.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: The new erato on January 31, 2016, 08:33:30 AM
This might be of interest:
(http://www.erato-warnerclassics.fr/var/emi/storage/images/classique/erato-warner-classics/site-web/actualites/anniversaire-rameau-le-coffret-opera-27cd-l-aeuvre-pour-clavier-par-marcelle-meyer/1172866-6-fre-FR/Anniversaire-Rameau-le-coffret-opera-27CD-l-aeuvre-pour-clavier-par-Marcelle-Meyer1_actu-image.jpg)

RAMEAU
CD 1–3 Hippolyte et Aricie – William Christie
CD 4–6 Les Indes galantes – Jean-François Paillard
CD 7–9 Castor et Pollux – Nikolaus Harnoncourt
CD 10 & 11 Les Fêtes d’Hébé – William Christie
CD 12 & 13 Dardanus – Raymond Leppard
CD 14 & 15 Platée – Marc Minkowski
CD 16 Pigmalion – Nicholas McGegan
CD 17 Les Surprises de l’Amour – Marc Minkowski
CD 18 & 19 Naïs – Nicholas McGegan
CD 20–22 Zoroastre – William Christie
CD 23 La Guirlande – William Christie
CD 24 Zéphyre – William Christie
CD 25–27 Les Boréades – John Eliot Gardiner
I have nearly all of them them as single issues. Except for that Nais, which I've never heard of  ;). It's a pretty nice Zais though, even if I prefer Roussets new performnce on Aparte.

Marcelle Meyer's Rameau is exceptional, agreed.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Peter Power Pop on January 31, 2016, 05:36:44 PM
This might be of interest:
(http://www.erato-warnerclassics.fr/var/emi/storage/images/classique/erato-warner-classics/site-web/actualites/anniversaire-rameau-le-coffret-opera-27cd-l-aeuvre-pour-clavier-par-marcelle-meyer/1172866-6-fre-FR/Anniversaire-Rameau-le-coffret-opera-27CD-l-aeuvre-pour-clavier-par-Marcelle-Meyer1_actu-image.jpg)

RAMEAU
CD 1–3 Hippolyte et Aricie – William Christie
CD 4–6 Les Indes galantes – Jean-François Paillard
CD 7–9 Castor et Pollux – Nikolaus Harnoncourt
CD 10 & 11 Les Fêtes d’Hébé – William Christie
CD 12 & 13 Dardanus – Raymond Leppard
CD 14 & 15 Platée – Marc Minkowski
CD 16 Pigmalion – Nicholas McGegan
CD 17 Les Surprises de l’Amour – Marc Minkowski
CD 18 & 19 Naïs – Nicholas McGegan
CD 20–22 Zoroastre – William Christie
CD 23 La Guirlande – William Christie
CD 24 Zéphyre – William Christie
CD 25–27 Les Boréades – John Eliot Gardiner

That Rameau box set was discussed in the "Baroque Opera" thread (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,7641.msg836890.html#msg836890).
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Chronochromie on April 15, 2016, 03:33:34 PM
imo Rameau is a composer who is at the very least of equal greatness to J.S. Bach

I agree, he wrote some of the best music I've heard and it's sad to see that this thread is only 4 pages long while Havergal Brian has one longer than his first symphony!  ???

Here are some fine performances of Rameau's operatic masterpieces to get started:

https://www.youtube.com/v/?v=I7WGkZcxDLc


https://www.youtube.com/v?v=C-iGGT0iLLE


https://www.youtube.com/v?v=jVoW2wPaMHU


https://www.youtube.com/v?v=n1SzKPjHL1I


https://www.youtube.com/v?v=JlVsEnOpCao


The solo keyboard works:

https://www.youtube.com/v?v=M4hf9ak9HnU

https://www.youtube.com/v?v=qr5ur2hzpBs

The chamber music:

https://www.youtube.com/v?v=gkcUOht1i4c

And don't forget the motets:

https://www.youtube.com/v?v=XHYlnyO_x4o
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Scion7 on April 15, 2016, 04:00:29 PM
'the equal of J.S. Bach'

sigh .......

Can't we just appreciate his music without making outrageous claims?
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Chronochromie on April 15, 2016, 04:17:41 PM
'the equal of J.S. Bach'

sigh .......

Can't we just appreciate his music without making outrageous claims?

How is it an outrageous claim? How many of his works have you heard? His style is very different but not lesser than Bach's, and along with Monteverdi I consider them the Big 3 of the Baroque era.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Scion7 on April 15, 2016, 04:42:53 PM
A lot.  He's a good composer, but he's nowhere in the same league as Bach,

nor is he in the "big three" of Vivaldi, Bach and Handel.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Chronochromie on April 15, 2016, 05:13:34 PM
A lot.  He's a good composer, but he's nowhere in the same league as Bach,

nor is he in the "big three" of Vivaldi, Bach and Handel.

Why not?

I do think he's a better composer than Vivaldi and Handel, but then again I'm not that fond Italian opera after Monteverdi and Cavalli until Gluck's reforms. Rameau's critical standing and popularity is increasing and in the next few years placing him alongside Bach may not appear as outlandish as it seems to you.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Scion7 on April 15, 2016, 08:23:34 PM
Won't ever happen.  History has made its decision at least 200 years ago.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Chronochromie on April 15, 2016, 08:35:50 PM
Won't ever happen.  History has made its decision at least 200 years ago.

History hasn't made its decision, but you clearly have.

Now, I'd like to see some actual comments on Rameau's music. Anyone?
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Scion7 on April 16, 2016, 05:20:43 AM
You can't possibly be serious?
Any university 101 music class will stress the supreme importance of Bach, Handel and Vivaldi in the Baroque, with special emphasis of Bach (along with Beethoven) as being considered the two greatest composers in the classical music genre.

History has made its decision.  You are free to love what you like, of course, as is anyone.  I appreciate Rameau's music a great deal.  But my personal tastes nor yours will ever affect the general consensus of Academia.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Florestan on April 16, 2016, 06:46:54 AM
You can't possibly be serious?
Any university 101 music class will stress the supreme importance of Bach, Handel and Vivaldi in the Baroque, with special emphasis of Bach (along with Beethoven) as being considered the two greatest composers in the classical music genre.

You mean the two greatest besides Mozart , right?  ;D

Quote
History has made its decision.  You are free to love what you like, of course, as is anyone.  I appreciate Rameau's music a great deal.  But my personal tastes nor yours will ever affect the general consensus of Academia.

History is one thing, Academia quite another. The abridged history of academia is an ever-evolving list of dead ideas and theories.  ;D
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Mandryka on April 16, 2016, 07:04:34 AM
Rameau's biggest contribution to music is without any doubt the Treatise on Harmony. Whether it was a positive or negative contribution is more disputable.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Florestan on April 16, 2016, 07:08:16 AM
Rameau's biggest contribution to [the theory of music] is without any doubt the Treatise on Harmony.

There, fixed.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Chronochromie on April 16, 2016, 08:58:53 AM
You can't possibly be serious?
Any university 101 music class will stress the supreme importance of Bach, Handel and Vivaldi in the Baroque, with special emphasis of Bach (along with Beethoven) as being considered the two greatest composers in the classical music genre.

History has made its decision.  You are free to love what you like, of course, as is anyone.  I appreciate Rameau's music a great deal.  But my personal tastes nor yours will ever affect the general consensus of Academia.

Sorry, but you're really underestimating Rameau. His Treatise on Harmony was enormously influential before he even started writing opera, his music was a major influence on Gluck's reforms which influenced Berlioz, who influenced Wagner. He's arguably more important to music history than J.S. Bach (whose influence on anything is overstated). What you or any academic think about it will not change that.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Scion7 on April 16, 2016, 02:24:03 PM
Oh, my goodness gracious me  .  .  .  :-X
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Chronochromie on April 16, 2016, 02:49:45 PM
Good. Now that this is over with, let us talk about Rameau.

Does anyone know of a good recording of Platée? Agnew's isn't ideal and the reviews of Minkowski's put me off.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Jo498 on April 17, 2016, 12:14:52 AM
Maybe we can agree that Jean-Philippe deserves at least so much respect that his given name is spelled properly in the thread title.

(I do not think academics have "rated" or compared composers in such a sophomoric fashion since many decades although one might find something like it in writings from the 50s by the likes of Alfred Einstein or Adorno (who wrote about the beginning of Beethoven's C major mass that it sounded more like a weak Mendelssohn and did not seem to care for any high baroque but Bach)). One is more likely to find such "best of baroque" lists on music magazine sites or discussion fora...)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Scion7 on April 17, 2016, 03:58:48 AM
The lectures given at the 400 level and graduate level are hardly "sophomoric" - the 'ratings' are not lists - they simply stress the OVERWHELMING critical consensus of the views on Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, etc.  I've watched panels of four or five musicologists debate this many times at several universities, and although there may be one revisionist, that person's views never persuade, nor have the textbooks taken any such changes.

That is nothing against other composers per se, just that these men were the crème de la crème.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Mandryka on April 17, 2016, 04:44:11 AM
Good. Now that this is over with, let us talk about Rameau.

Does anyone know of a good recording of Platée? Agnew's isn't ideal and the reviews of Minkowski's put me off.

I don't have a recording but I've seen Minkowski do it and enjoyed it.

Have you seen this? (in French)

http://www.youtube.com/v/coENn4UzHsY&feature=PlayList&p=CE510E7C0C9AA07A&playnext=1&index=55
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: JCBuckley on April 17, 2016, 05:27:43 AM
Good. Now that this is over with, let us talk about Rameau.

Does anyone know of a good recording of Platée? Agnew's isn't ideal and the reviews of Minkowski's put me off.

I think the Minkowski CD recording is fine - apart from the lack of libretto with the current reissue. Haven't heard the DVD performance, though.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Drasko on April 17, 2016, 05:48:02 AM
Minkowski DVD is fantastic, in all aspects: singing, acting, staging. One of best opera on DVDs I've ever watched.

Minkowski on CD I haven't heard, but are there that many choices?

Agnew (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U_gaFECXe8) and Rousset (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ojInrTR4xY), neither commercially released as far as I know.

Malgoire, who's never been a favorite of mine in anything or 70 year old Rosbaud (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzLMyoe0FYc).
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Jo498 on April 17, 2016, 06:31:41 AM
I don't think it is an interesting result or even "musicological" in the normal sense of that word that Bach is "greater" than Rameau. You will hardly find a research paper on such topics and I cannot imagine a university level course on 18th century music neglecting Rameau (or having as take-home-message "Bach > Rameau")
Who debated such stuff on a panel? One would seriously hope that scholars would refuse even entering into such moot debates.

I don't know much about Rameau but it seems without a doubt that he was a very important composer and, as has been pointed out, very influential both for post-baroque opera and for music theory.
His influence on French music, even as late as the late 19th century might be comparable to that of Bach on Mendelssohn or Brahms.

Whereas Vivaldi influence had already waned within his own lifetime. His central achievement was the high baroque concerto form that was basically copied by Bach (sometimes almost literally) and other composers. But he was almost forgotten before he was dead.

So I do not know about better and doubt that it makes a lot of sense here but the historical influence of Rameau on a longer timescale seems to have been larger than Vivaldi's.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Chronochromie on April 17, 2016, 10:09:20 AM
Minkowski DVD is fantastic, in all aspects: singing, acting, staging. One of best opera on DVDs I've ever watched.

Minkowski on CD I haven't heard, but are there that many choices?

Agnew (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U_gaFECXe8) and Rousset (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ojInrTR4xY), neither commercially released as far as I know.

Malgoire, who's never been a favorite of mine in anything or 70 year old Rosbaud (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzLMyoe0FYc).

I'll take your word on Minkowski (I do love his recording of Hippolyte et Aricie) and I didn't know about the Rousset, I'll give it a try, thanks!

I don't think it is an interesting result or even "musicological" in the normal sense of that word that Bach is "greater" than Rameau. You will hardly find a research paper on such topics and I cannot imagine a university level course on 18th century music neglecting Rameau (or having as take-home-message "Bach > Rameau")
Who debated such stuff on a panel? One would seriously hope that scholars would refuse even entering into such moot debates.

I don't know much about Rameau but it seems without a doubt that he was a very important composer and, as has been pointed out, very influential both for post-baroque opera and for music theory.
His influence on French music, even as late as the late 19th century might be comparable to that of Bach on Mendelssohn or Brahms.

Whereas Vivaldi influence had already waned within his own lifetime. His central achievement was the high baroque concerto form that was basically copied by Bach (sometimes almost literally) and other composers. But he was almost forgotten before he was dead.

Indeed. One should not underestimate Rameau's influence on the history of music. Of course, if Rameau had not been influential at all I would still think that the quality of his works puts him among the greatest of Baroque composers without a doubt. All of his operas have not been recorded yet, so the reappraisal of his music is not over and in fact it's growing, with recordings of his works more frequent than ever. I do think his popularity will not quite approach that of Bach, Handel and Vivaldi if only because most of his best work is opera, a genre that even many lovers of classical music dislike (although suites from his operas are quite popular, it's still not the real deal). But he's already recognized by many academics as a major player, now the music itself is catching up.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Que on April 17, 2016, 03:23:30 PM
Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but I teach at a university, and am in constant contact with peers in England, Australia, Germany, Hungary and (sometimes) a colleague in Romania.  My field is history (retired from nuclear physics - long story) but as an avid listener, after hours dialogue between similar folks goes on constantly.  And the lectures and textbooks support my statements.

No one's putting down Rameau - he's a fine composer - but they don't put him in the same league with J.S. Bach.

That's just not going to happen.  There's been no significant change in the opinion of the overwhelming majority of music critics about Bach's standing for well over a century.

Academics don't really rank composers, do they? In any case, Rameau is more than just a "fine composer", as is evident from his music. It just so happens that he had a big influence in the development of Western Classical music. I don't know the criteria that those nameless academics use to determine that Bach is unquestionably the better composer, it seems to me that their styles are very different and a preference for one over the other depends on that.

That Rameau is on the same level as Bach is just my opinion based purely on the quality I see in his music, which I know not many will share, I just hope that everyone gives him a fair chance instead of deciding that regardless of how good his music is there is no way he's nearly as good as Bach or even Vivaldi and Handel.

OK guys, just agree to disagree.  8)

Because I don't think prolonging this Rameau vs Bach discussion is very productive or informative for the readers of this thread, even though it has touched briefly on Rameau's qualities as a composer.

Q
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Chronochromie on April 17, 2016, 03:31:02 PM
OK guys, just agree to disagree.  8)

Because I don't think prolonging this Rameau vs Bach discussion is very productive or informative for the readers of this thread, even though it has touched briefly on Rameau's qualities as a composer.

Q

I agree, and thought it was all over but he just wouldn't surrender!  ::)  I just hope my post with videos of Rameau's works makes someone to listen to his music and doesn't get lost in the thread.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: The new erato on April 17, 2016, 08:07:48 PM
Minkowski DVD is fantastic, in all aspects: singing, acting, staging. One of best opera on DVDs I've ever watched.
Totally and utterly agree.
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: 71 dB on April 15, 2017, 02:25:03 AM
I enjoyed watching this a lot:


Pretty stunning production. Recommended!  :)
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Spineur on April 15, 2017, 02:33:04 AM
I enjoyed watching this a lot:


Pretty stunning production. Recommended!  :)
I actually tried to buy it but for some reason it is not on amazon.fr or amazon.de. I actually found it in the secondary market, but it does not seem to be distributed so well.

To thread owner or moderators

The correct spelling is Jean-Philippe Rameau (only one l in Philippe).
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: 71 dB on April 15, 2017, 02:41:44 AM
I actually tried to buy it but for some reason it is not on amazon.fr or amazon.de. I actually found it in the secondary market, but it does not seem to be distributed so well.

Sorry to hear that. I was lucky and got a very good deal for it, £9.37 + shipping = £11.19 delivered at Amazon.co.uk marketplace (New).

I bought it 11 months ago and only now watched it.  ;D
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Drasko on April 15, 2017, 02:42:55 AM
I actually tried to buy it but for some reason it is not on amazon.fr or amazon.de.

https://www.amazon.fr/Rameau-Hippolyte-Glyndebourne-Christie-Blu-ray/dp/B00KQHWB40

https://www.amazon.de/Rameau-Hippolyte-Aricie-Glyndebourne-Blu-ray/dp/B00KQHWB40
Title: Re: Jean Phillippe Rameau
Post by: Spineur on April 15, 2017, 02:45:45 AM
https://www.amazon.fr/Rameau-Hippolyte-Glyndebourne-Christie-Blu-ray/dp/B00KQHWB40

https://www.amazon.de/Rameau-Hippolyte-Aricie-Glyndebourne-Blu-ray/dp/B00KQHWB40

Drasko, I should hire you, you are very good!!
Title: Re: Jean-Philippe Rameau
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on May 07, 2018, 02:41:53 PM
First review for the new outlet:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DclrcZBWsAAJIa_.jpg)
RAMEAU, JEAN-PHILIPPE:
Pygmalion; Les Fêtes de Polymnie
 (https://t.co/RYJI2jFnd9)
Title: Re: Jean-Philippe Rameau
Post by: TheGSMoeller on May 22, 2018, 10:51:02 AM
First review for the new outlet:

Congrats on the new gig, Jens. I've always enjoyed going to Classics Today as a freebie, now perhaps I'll pay for the extras with you there.
Title: Re: Jean-Philippe Rameau
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on May 22, 2018, 02:02:48 PM
Congrats on the new gig, Jens. I've always enjoyed going to Classics Today as a freebie, now perhaps I'll pay for the extras with you there.

Thanks and thanks for the compliment! That would be fab., of course... my standing would go through the roof, no doubt, if people signed up for the new kid on the block.  ;)
Title: Re: Jean-Philippe Rameau
Post by: milk on September 07, 2019, 10:44:50 PM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71-UZAWgpSL._SS500_.jpg)
I can't remember what put me on to Rowland, but I got stuck on him and now no other performance of these pieces seems as good. I'm not sure I've seen much praise for Rowland generally. In Rameau, he really at home - stately, lively, energetic, dramatic - although the instrument is not the most attractive.
Title: Re: Jean-Philippe Rameau
Post by: Papy Oli on October 08, 2020, 02:23:04 AM
Cross-posted from the French Music Exploration thread:

I moved on to Jean-Philippe Rameau earlier this afternoon.

I do not have a lot in my collection but he actually is the French composer I return to the most for the following :

Les Indes Galantes (Orchestral - Bruggen)
Les Indes Galantes (Harpsichord - Rousset)
Pieces de Clavecin (Bielder, Ross , Meyer)

The Suite in E minor particularly is a strong favorite of mine as it includes Rappel des Oiseaux et Gigue en Rondeau. I have always been satisfied with only Indes Galantes in instrumental versions. It should be a short foray as I tried a few times the operas themselves (audio, YT video) but to no avail. It just doesn't work for me once the singing is there.

Earlier today, I listened to the Overtures by Rousset. That was very good, really enjoyed that.

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/07/91/0002894759107_600.jpg)

Checking out Rameau's works on wikipedia, I notice he did some motets. I'll give that a go later today on tomorrow.

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/21/00/0794881600021_600.jpg)

I enjoy a lot of his music also, but with Franck and Saint-Saens and Fauré out there, he doesn't get as many plays.

Swerved Varése, but up for Rameau following Nielsen which should make for an interesting twosome this evening. ;D

Must admit, I don't often visit (revisit?) Rameau.  Like you, I do enjoy (and own) that overtures disc with Rousset.  I should try again his operas (I own a few of them).

PD

Suites Des Indes Galantes

(https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30196.0;attach=67416;image)

Most enjoyable. A recording from 1961 that wears it's years well.

Rousset is a fine interpreter of Rameau, I think, and he plays the harpsichord works very well if one is interested in that particular field of endeavour.

I only have one CD of his but yes, it is a very good one :

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/67/85/0822189008567_600.jpg)

I took some of my Rameau in a thoroughly non-traditional form.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71oR03xrIUL._SS500_.jpg)

And I was rather surprised at how well the programming worked. The choices of Debussy pieces are very, very smart to fit with the Rameau ones. And yes, this won't work if you don't want your harpsichord music played on piano. But for what it is, it impressed me a lot more than I had expected.

Noted Madiel, thank you, and added in my queue. Maybe the mixing of tracks with Rameau will help me hear Debussy differently when I get to him.

Title: Re: Jean-Philippe Rameau
Post by: Rosalba on January 07, 2021, 12:04:56 PM
Rameau & Bach - more specifically their views on music theory - are compared here.

I've read the thread briefly - my apologies if the link's been published already.

https://www.piano-composer-teacher-london.co.uk/post/rameau-and-the-western-musical-decline
Title: Re: Jean-Philippe Rameau
Post by: aligreto on July 17, 2021, 01:48:27 AM
Rameau: Complete Works for Harpsichord [Belder]


(https://img.discogs.com/SxZdSi5MVmIy5bUbKWQywFkp8m8=/fit-in/497x500/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-9244581-1477257693-3589.jpeg.jpg)


I have just finished listening to this set.

This is really a very fine set with consistently very good performances throughout, to my ear. There is a great energy and drive in all of this music with great forward momentum. The music itself is also very forward thinking and inventive. It never runs away with itself, however, and it always has great poise and balance. Belder plays very well throughout this cycle. I very much like the sound of the instrument used and the recorded sound is also good and it enhances the sound of the instrument. The ensemble plays very well in the accompaniment on the final disc adding great depth and dimension.
Title: Re: Jean-Philippe Rameau
Post by: aligreto on November 01, 2021, 06:22:22 AM
Rameau:  Keyboard Works [Scott Ross]


(https://img.discogs.com/TzKZuoSIdtLStHsIqD-WMXP3Xx0=/fit-in/600x603/filters:strip_icc():format(webp):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5956525-1502026868-4595.jpeg.jpg)


Premier Livre [1706]: This is wonderfully refined music that is really wonderfully played by Ross. I have always found this music to be very engaging. Ross was an exceptional musician as far as I am concerned. He always delivered a supreme performance in terms of musical integrity and interpretation for me. The touch and interpretation of the Premier Livre (1706) is suitably delicate and sensitive. I like the sound of the chosen instrument and the recorded sound portrays it in an excellent acoustic.


Pièces de clavecin [1724]: It is interesting to hear and feel the music developing and maturing here over the Premier Livre. The music is definitely more assertive and vital and it has a much bigger presence; it definitely makes one pay attention. Ross reflects this very well in his performance approach. The chosen instrument sounds wonderful and the recorded sound is excellent and it is very well balanced.


Nouvelles Suites de pièces de clavecin [1728]: I have always liked the solo harpsichord music of Rameau. It has always offered a different outlook on the genre and period for me. Up until now I have not experienced Ross playing Rameau’s music. I find his presentations to be excellent. He is consistently contemplative, steady or exuberant whenever it is appropriate or relevant. This music has all of those attributes and Ross delivers the music consistently very well indeed. Ross’ exquisite playing always portrays the music in a wonderful light. The instrument played is on the light and bright side and is excellently recorded.


Pièces de clavecin en concerts [1741]: I have always liked this set. They seem to encapsulate Rameau’s oeuvre for solo harpsichord and I find them to be very charming and engaging. Ross plays them exquisitely as one would expect.