--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: vandermolen on August 06, 2007, 04:30:16 AM
Totally agree with you; a mystifying omission. Symphony 2-6 are all great works, especially the redemptive endings of 2 and 3.
However, while it might be better to start a new thread on Hilding Rosenberg, I might just say that Robert von Bahr, the owner of BIS, does seem to have very definite tastes and has totally ignored Rosenberg's music over the years. But then Rosenberg is not alone in this neglect. It was left to that most enterprising German company CPO to record the Swedish symphonic cycles of Kurt Atterberg(BIS did record his 6th), Wilhelm Peterson-Berger, Ture Rangstrom and Dag Wiren. Obviously, von Bahr has no time for Rosenberg et al. Indeed, arguably, BIS has actually done better for some of the other great 20th century Scandinavian symphonists with the complete cycles of the Dane Vagn Holmboe, the Norwegian Harald Saeverud, and the Finns Joonas Kokkonen, Aulis Sallinen(incomplete) and Kalevi Aho(ongoing).
I agree about the merits of those Rosenberg symphonies I have heard-Nos.2-6-but each of these is an old recording(No.5 is actually from the 1940s). I believe that Rosenberg may have withdrawn his 1st. I would love to hear Nos. 7 and 8. Rosenberg was a serious composer rated highly by that great authority on Nordic music, Robert Layton. He was very much the grand old man of Swedish music and his continuing neglect by record companies is most odd. I seem to remember a reference somewhere to a plan for Neeme Jarvi to record the symphonies with the Gothenburg orchestra but obviously this came to nothing. Over to you, CPO!
(I am deeply sorry to have added this to the thread on Richard Arnell! It seems to have led to other postings which then had that thread temporarily locked. I am now doing what I should have done previously-making a new thread!)
I too am a fan of Rosenberg, especially symphonies 2 and 3. I even have three recordings on CD of Symphony 3! (Rosenberg, Blomstedt and Andrew Davis). The Andrew Davis on Finlandia was an unexpected bonus! I have Symphony 8 on LP. The choral No 4, despite some longuers, has some wonderfully inspired moments (it is also on CD).
I hope that BIS or CPO or Naxos record a cycle, which we badly need. The redemptive endings of the Second and Third symphonies are, to me, some of the greatest moments in 20th century symphonies.
I have only a few works by Rosenberg . Symphony nr 4 The revelation of St. John (on Caprice) - I often listen to the choral - a capella - fragments only - very very beautiful! NR 6 "Semplice", the two pianoconcertos, and a big box with historical recordings .
Strong & serious music . Hope to discover his chambermusic. Any recommendations.? More choral music?
Peter
This one:
(http://www.naxos.com/images/cds/553738.gif)
Consists of Larssons "A god in Disguise" and Rosenbergs "The Sacred Night" - a small Christmas oratorio.
http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.553738 (http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.553738)
So far, I love his piano concertos and the Symphony No. 6. Mr. Bahr of Bis hangs out in r.m.c.r, so maybe I'll ask him about Rosenberg.
GReat to see that Den heliga natten is now on CD - I have a good version on LP and a version on CD ,conducted by Rosenberg himself - but the soundquality is quite poor.
thanks, Peter
There is an excellent(and I think new) English language website devoted to Rosenberg's music-http://web.telia.com/~u48022134/index.html Well worth a look!
I have learned from it that Rosenberg revised his Symphony No.1 several times rather than withdrawing it as I had thought. Indeed, he seems to have been a compulsive reviser of his own works. He also wrote a considerable number of concerti in addition to the two Piano Concerti and the Violin Concerto No.2 which I know.
Here's the reply I had from Mr. von Bahr to my enquiry about a Rosenberg cycle:
Quote
It was actually rather far planned, but then, as we couldn't agree
with the behaviour of the proposed conductor, we had to cancel it.
I rather doubt that we will reinstate planning. You're right, the
music is good.
Best - Robert
Not good news from BIS! Well that leaves CPO. If they can sell Pettersson, Atterberg, Peterson-Berger etc then they should surely be able to sell Rosenberg?
"...with the behaviour of the proposed conductor..."! Makes you wonder who it was and what the "behaviour" in question actually was, doesn't it!
Maybe it was Leif Segerstam and he wanted BIS to pay for him to get the nicotine stains out of his beard. ;)
Have been listening to all 78 minutes of Rosenberg's Symphony No 4 'The Revelation of St John' - a wonderful, darkly-moving choral work with many beautiful passages. I think that Robert Layton described Rosenberg, in works like this, as an 'old testament prophet' - I agree.
In this case, at least, Layton does get it right, doesn't he ;D
Rosenberg Complete SQs 1-12 (+1):
Villa-Lobos, Bloch, Maconchy, Milhaud, Hindemith...Rosenberg...
This Caprice box was very welcomed the day it arrived. Dipping into a new composer through a giant box of SQs is akin to, well...I think you know,heehee.
No.1 ('22?) was received as noise by the status quo in conservative Sweden (how bout a thread on that,hmm?). It came across to me like one of Hindemith's first 2 SQs, though it has it's own voice. No.2 continues on from here, but
No.3 ,"Pastoral", present absolutely no problems, and as the shortest SQ of the bunch, it is quite idyllic. Just a nice mid 20s SQ, with Rosenberg's particular touches beginning to come to the fore.
Having lived in southern Sweden, I can attest that Rosenberg's nature music truly does breathe the Swedish air. There is a sense of hills and dales, and the wildlife (birds,...), on a warm summer's eve (with a breeze of course!). I can practically smell it!
There is an extra cd in the box with R's unpublished "1942" quartet that precedes R's breakthrough, or most "famous" SQ, No.4.. As with so many composers of this era, they all seemed to congeal a "perfect" style in the 40s (usually represented by one standout work) before "hardening" their vocabularies post-war into the 60s. SQ No.4 reminds me a little of Britten's SQ 2 in that it has a vaguely Eastern sounding melody opening up; and Hindemith's last 2 SQs aren't that far away, either. And perhaps the Villa-Lobos (6,7) and Bloch (2).
SQs 4-6 represent this "golden" period, No.5 being dedicated to Sibelius. If all three were on one cd there would be no question as to which to get first. These SQs are melodically elusive, not really "hummers", but more the overall peaceful sense pulls you into a world that breathes some rare air in stretches that is really satisfying.
Then, in 1957, R wrote his SQs 7-12!. Yes, 6 SQs in one year, a modern feat I don't think anyone else has attempted. Well, so how does the quality hold up? No.7 carries on from its predecessors, but the "hardening" of the language begins to show in No.8. Just like the middle SQs of V-L and Milhaud, these 2 SQs are the ones I need to make more sense of.
No.9 is in 2 large mvmts, a first for R here. Here, R's full maturity is in effect. His thing is "contrasts", so there is a lot of fast/slow, loud/soft, but there is an overall smoothness.
No.10 is a big, 4 mvmt Beethovenian affair that I was convinced was a masterpiece the first time I heard it. I still think it's the dark horse winner here for the truly discrimminating. It really reminds me of the more outgoing of LvB's late quartets (Eb,Bb), very serious of purpose, yet totally musical, yet totally...rockin!
No.11, the notes tell me, "has the happiest opening of any Swedish SQ". I'll give that to Wiren's No.3, but 11 has vigor aplenty. I'll admit that a lot of 25-28min SQs can be wearing (same with V-L, though Milhaud varies his times a lot and I don't have that problem with him), and I need "space" to really listen to these pieces, always only one at a time (and contrast them with another composer). They do have an elusive quality, again, like many of his contemporaries at the time. Bloch's SQ No.5 comes to mind.
No.12 is a "retrospective", culling ideas from the previous SQs and summing up. It, like No.9, is in two long mvmts.
Rounding out the set is a 1970s suite-ish, Milhaud-like style.
Germ cells, metamorphoses technique, constant variation...??? I dunno, but R's style IS smooth and flowing. I still maintain that Bloch, V-L, Malipiero, Chavez, Milhaud, Rosenberg, and whoever else you can think of that falls into this category all seem to exhibit a certain "universalism" in the late 50s. neo-classical universalism???
Beethovenian nature music? or Beethovenian impressionism? to give a sense of the "serious purpose" coupled with "artist sitting in a field listening"? In all, this box is hefty, a little more meat than V-L, more seriousness than Milhaud (though M has more variety and humor here), and more organic than Bloch.
It will take me some time to fully explore this set further, and I expect it to be one of the cornerstones of my mid century listening for the rest of my listening days. Start with Hindemith, though ;D.
oy, mom has to use the phone...dail-up, you know...anyone hiring???
Quote from: vandermolen on May 02, 2009, 10:38:07 PM
Have been listening to all 78 minutes of Rosenber's Symphony No 4 'The Revelation of St John' - a wonderful, darkly-moving choral work with many beautiful passages. I think that Robert Layton described Rosenberg, in works like this, as an 'old testament prophet' - I agree.
Wonderful composer. Wrote several symphonies, I believe. Did he not compose a Louisville Concerto? I may have heard this work way back when I was a student in Kentucky and would often attend concerts with the Louisville Orcestra. Many fine works were pioneered under the baton of Whitney in those long ago days.
Quote from: schweitzeralan on May 26, 2009, 09:48:07 AM
Wonderful composer. Wrote several symphonies, I believe. Did he not compose a Louisville Concerto? I may have heard this work way back when I was a student in Kentucky and would often attend concerts with the Louisville Orcestra. Many fine works were pioneered under the baton of Whitney in those long ago days.
Eight Symphonies in total actually. I have never heard No.1 or Nos. 7 and 8. Nos. 1 and 7 have not, to my knowledge, been recorded. No.8 'Sinfonia Serena' was available on an old Caprice LP but has never been transferred to cd.
Yes, Rosenberg did compose a Louisville Concerto; it is his third Concerto for Orchestra and it is or was available on a Swedish Society Discofil cd coupled with the Symphony No.2 'Sinfonia Grave' and the Overture to 'The Marionettes'. The concerto is scored for violin, viola, cello and orchestra and was written in 1954 but revised in 1968. There are not many of his works which Rosenberg left in their original state; he appears to have been a compulsive reviser ;D There will be a tape of the Whitney performance but the First Music Edition project to reissue all the old Louisville recordings on disc ran into the sand-tragically :(
http://web.telia.com/~u48022134/index.html
for an excellent Rosenberg website.
Quote from: Dundonnell on May 26, 2009, 12:57:09 PM
Eight Symphonies in total actually. I have never heard No.1 or Nos. 7 and 8. Nos. 1 and 7 have not, to my knowledge, been recorded. No.8 'Sinfonia Serena' was available on an old Caprice LP but has never been transferred to cd.
Yes, Rosenberg did compose a Louisville Concerto; it is his third Concerto for Orchestra and it is or was available on a Swedish Society Discofil cd coupled with the Symphony No.2 'Sinfonia Grave' and the Overture to 'The Marionettes'. The concerto is scored for violin, viola, cello and orchestra and was written in 1954 but revised in 1968. There are not many of his works which Rosenberg left in their original state; he appears to have been a compulsive reviser ;D There will be a tape of the Whitney performance but the First Music Edition project to reissue all the old Louisville recordings on disc ran into the sand-tragically :(
http://web.telia.com/~u48022134/index.html
for an excellent Rosenberg website.
Thanks for the info. Actually I have the original recording locked in the attic somwehere along with other old LP's. I have other old Louisville recordigs I received long ago: a work by Wen-Chung; Ned Rorum (Design For Orchestra); Bernard Reichel (Suite Symphonque); Peter Mennin's Sixth; Ernst Bacon's "The Enchantrd Isle;" ( still listen to that one.); Wallingford Rieger (Variations For Piano And Orchestra). I'll have to retrieve them.
Quote from: schweitzeralan on May 26, 2009, 02:56:03 PM
Thanks for the info. Actually I have the original recording locked in the attic somwehere along with other old LP's. I have other old Louisville recordigs I received long ago: a work by Wen-Chung; Ned Rorum (Design For Orchestra); Bernard Reichel (Suite Symphonque); Peter Mennin's Sixth; Ernst Bacon's "The Enchantrd Isle;" ( still listen to that one.); Wallingford Rieger (Variations For Piano And Orchestra). I'll have to retrieve them.
Wow! Some of these would be worth a lot of money!
Yes, Rosenberg's 8th Symphony should be on CD. I have the old LP. It did not grab me as strongly as the others (I don't know nos 1 or 7) but it is years since I heard it.
Yes. Yes! Yes!!! YES !!!!!!
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/BISCD1383.jpg)
Quote from: erato on March 04, 2010, 02:40:48 AM
Yes. Yes! Yes!!! YES !!!!!!
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/BISCD1383.jpg)
I saw this too. I guess they changed their minds (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2523.msg66298.html#msg66298) about doing some Rosenberg symphonies (or maybe it was just a whole
cycle that got canceled.) Good news in any case. This does duplicate the contents of a Phono Suecia CD, but that CD didn't have very good sonics.
Quote from: Daverz on March 04, 2010, 03:00:26 AM
I saw this too. I guess they changed their minds (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2523.msg66298.html#msg66298) about doing some Rosenberg symphonies (or maybe it was just a whole cycle that got canceled.) Good news in any case. This does duplicate the contents of a Phono Suecia CD, but that CD didn't have very good sonics.
Yes indeed and I have that disc. Let's hope this is just a start.
Quote from: erato on March 04, 2010, 02:40:48 AM
Yes. Yes! Yes!!! YES !!!!!!
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/BISCD1383.jpg)
Very exciting news for us Rosenberg fans! Have just pre-ordered. Is this the start of a complete Rosenberg symphony cycle? I really hope so. Thanks for posting this.
Send your fanmail to bis - it's the only way to convince them ;)
I'll probably get this CD too once marketplaces go down a little - Rosenberg seems like a composer I should enjoy...
Quote from: Lethe on March 05, 2010, 04:18:55 AM
Send your fanmail to bis - it's the only way to convince them ;)
I'll probably get this CD too once marketplaces go down a little - Rosenberg seems like a composer I should enjoy...
The 3rd is my favorite, a superb work, as are all his symphonies. Hilding was considered, I believe from what I had read years ago, the dean of Swedish composers.
Quote from: erato on March 04, 2010, 02:40:48 AM
Yes. Yes! Yes!!! YES !!!!!!
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/BISCD1383.jpg)
Have been listening to this CD with enormous pleasure. What wonderful works both these symphonies are - this CD is a fine place to start investigating this great composer. To be honest though, I thought that the performance of the visionary 'Sinfonia Semplice' (Symphony No 6) was a little underpowered and lacking in urgency compared with an earlier LP and CD manfestation conducted by the late Stig Westerberg on the Phono Suecia label (from a Vox Turnabout LP) - at times it sounded like a different work, but the recording is great and I am getting used to this alternative take on the Symphony. The performance of Symphony 3 (Rosenberg's greatest work?) is excellent in all respects and more than a match for earlier recordings by Blomstedt and Andrew Davis. The wonderfully redemptive conclusion is one of my favourite moments in classical music and this is the best performance of it (I had to play it again immediately). Fans of Sibelius, Tubin, Nielsen and Holmboe should enjoy this music. Rosenberg has been left out in the cold for too long and I hope that this is the start of a complete cycle (although there is nothing in the CD notes to suggest that it is). The notes quote Rosenberg's remarks about a withdrawn early symphony - "My only and dearest wish is that it may provide faith and strength to my fellow wanderers, and for all those who suffer and find no meaning in life." This is powerful, deeply felt and inspiriting music - my favourite CD of the year so far.
Doesn't matter what you think. The Hurwitzer found it bland and uninspiring.
Quote from: erato on March 28, 2010, 02:06:35 AM
Doesn't matter what you think. The Hurwitzer found it bland and uninspiring.
I guess it's time to throw all those bis CDs in the skip ;D
Quote from: erato on March 28, 2010, 02:06:35 AM
Doesn't matter what you think. The Hurwitzer found it bland and uninspiring.
I'm curious. How does one access his review?
Quote from: vandermolen on March 28, 2010, 06:47:45 AM
I'm curious. How does one access his review?
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=12666 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=12666)
In that special, condescending tone that seems to be Hurwitz' raison d'etre.
Quote from: erato on March 28, 2010, 06:56:51 AM
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=12666 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=12666)
In that special, condescending tone that seems to be Hurwitz' raison d'etre.
Many thanks for the link - what a useless review! They could hardly have chosen someone less sympahetic to Rosenberg to do the review. Rather like Robert Layton's reviews of the Pettersson symphonies -"rampant self-pity etc". Also, I don't think that Rosenberg sounds anything like Hindemith. Personally I find that Rosenberg does write memorable tunes (Hurwitz does admit to moments of beauty in the scores). The only thing I agree with is the reference to the technical excellence of the recording.
Quote from: erato on March 28, 2010, 06:56:51 AM
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=12666 (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=12666)
In that special, condescending tone that seems to be Hurwitz' raison d'etre.
Especially considering how many stinker CDs he's given a "10/10".
I've come across the name of the composer from this forum a while back, but never heard a note written by the composer. Last week, I visited Academy Records in NYC and saw that they had set of the composer conducting his own works from the 1940s. It was decently priced, so I took the chance.
Now listening to the CDs, I am glad I did. So far, I have gotten a chance to listen to the 5th symphony, and the Violin concerto in whole. As I am writing this, I am listening to Orpheus on the Town, and it is another piece I am impressed with. I like how his melodies appear in different parts of the dance suite.
It is interesting to hear the composer conducting his own works. They are well performed, but being from the 1940s, the quality of the recording isn't that great. But overall, I am happy with the purchase, and I am looking forward to exploring more of Rosenberg's music.
Admirers of Rosenberg may be interested to know that the 5th symphony is to be broadcast on Swedish Radio this Tuesday (21st June) in the Klassisk förmiddag programme starting at 10.03 (9.03 British Summer Time). The running order for the day is at http://sverigesradio.se/sida/tabla.aspx?programid=163&date=2011-06-21. This is not the 1940s recording that paulrbass mentions (just about listenable to except in the 4th movement, where something has gone seriously wrong with the recording equipment) but a live performance from 1992 which a Swedish contact of mine rates highly. The web page for the actual program offers a BBC-style "listen again" facility (the "Senaste sändningen" (latest broadcast) button in the "Lyssna" panel) although, because this programme is on every day, I guess you have to catch it within 24 hours.
DF
Edit - not so - someone on another forum where I was getting equally excited about this has told me that the "listen again" is available for 30 days.
What a coincidence: here I am in my home in the middle of nowhere listening to Rosenberg's Fifth Symphony (the October 1944 recording on Caprice) and when I search the internet to find out more about the composer it turns out that someone else in the same little town as me knows about a 1992 performance.
Is there any internet access to this recording? I remember hearing a BBC Radio 3 studio broadcast of Richard Hickox conducting the work around 1982 (I think it may have been in honour of the composer's 90th birthday) and I hope that the BBC still has a tape of this somewhere. I remember that as being a magnificent performance.
You will find a download of this radio performance if you register at the unsungcomposers site.
Robert von Bahr dosen't like Rosenberg :( Simple as.
A new Rosenberg disc:
(http://media.mdt.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/C/5/C5116.jpg)
Quote from: The new erato on October 01, 2011, 09:05:09 AM
You will find a download of this radio performance if you register at the unsungcomposers site.
For anyone browsing,who doesn't already know ;D this information WAS correct at the time,but 'The Art Music Forum' is the 'place' to go,now! I have already downloaded some Rosenberg from there,myself! :)
A Rosenberg discography:
http://www.ekelin.org/discography.html
Happy Birthday Hilding Rosenberg (born 21st June 1892)!
His second and third symphonies with their powerfully redemptive conclusions remain great favourites of mine. A pity that BIS were not able to issue a complete cycle. However, we must be grateful for their release of symphonies number 3 and 6; both fine works.
Very interesting composer. I have enjoyed his string quartets quite a bit.
Quote from: sanantonio on June 21, 2013, 09:13:42 AM
Very interesting composer. I have enjoyed his string quartets quite a bit.
Yes, I need to discover those. Do you recommend any one in particular?
Quote from: vandermolen on June 22, 2013, 12:51:00 AM
Yes, I need to discover those. Do you recommend any one in particular?
No.4 is the one for non-Rosenbergians. No.5 was dedicated to Sibelius.
No.1: early, dissonant, wildish-Hindemith
No.2:
No.3: fairly 'Pastoral'
Nos.4-6: the mature, representative group
Nos.7-12: all written in 1957!! These are much more biting. I haven't heard Maconchy's, but their reputation for being thorny reminds me of these. 'Harder' than Malipiero,... somewhat Bloch-ish.
Quote from: snyprrr on June 22, 2013, 07:05:03 AM
No.4 is the one for non-Rosenbergians. No.5 was dedicated to Sibelius.
No.1: early, dissonant, wildish-Hindemith
No.2:
No.3: fairly 'Pastoral'
Nos.4-6: the mature, representative group
Nos.7-12: all written in 1957!! These are much more biting. I haven't heard Maconchy's, but their reputation for being thorny reminds me of these. 'Harder' than Malipiero,... somewhat Bloch-ish.
Many thanks for this. Actually I like the Malipiero quartets (there is a set on Brilliant Classics) and Bloch's SQ No. 1 is a work of enormous eloquence and power, so the Rosenberg works look to be of great interest. I shall look out for No. 4 for starters.
Quote from: vandermolen on June 22, 2013, 12:51:00 AM
Yes, I need to discover those. Do you recommend any one in particular?
The Caprice label has recorded the complete set (I think it is complete) with various SQ ensembles and those are the ones I am familiar with. I haven't listened to them enough to say one is my favorite over the others, but can say that they are in a style which appeals to me a great deal: in that area occupied by Weinberg, Meyer and Hindemith.
I discovered his quartets along with those by Weinberg and Meyer around the same time and all were wonderful discoveries.
Quote from: sanantonio on June 22, 2013, 06:31:55 PM
The Caprice label has recorded the complete set (I think it is complete) with various SQ ensembles and those are the ones I am familiar with. I haven't listened to them enough to say one is my favorite over the others, but can say that they are in a style which appeals to me a great deal: in that area occupied by Weinberg, Meyer and Hindemith.
I discovered his quartets along with those by Weinberg and Meyer around the same time and all were wonderful discoveries.
Many thanks. Never heard of Meyer but I am an admirer of Weinberg, especially his Piano Quintet.
Quote from: vandermolen on June 23, 2013, 12:51:03 AM
Many thanks. Never heard of Meyer but I am an admirer of Weinberg, especially his Piano Quintet.
Here's a link from Amazon.us - Caprice Records is distributed by Naxos, so they should be easy to find ~
[asin]B0002ITAN8[/asin]
It is interesting that the works are not performed by a single string quartet. There are some that do more than one work, but I'd guess all in all there are 4-5 ensembles represented, maybe more. I've seen five volumes of the recordings.
Sorry, I am speaking of
Krsystof Meyer - he is later, born in 1947 (I think) and his last SQ was written in 2007 (?) or thereabouts. He has written thirteen so far, and I consider them the best string quartets since Shostakovich.
[asin]B009TBNWBU[/asin]
Quote from: sanantonio on June 22, 2013, 06:31:55 PM
The Caprice label has recorded the complete set (I think it is complete) with various SQ ensembles and those are the ones I am familiar with. I haven't listened to them enough to say one is my favorite over the others, but can say that they are in a style which appeals to me a great deal: in that area occupied by Weinberg, Meyer and Hindemith.
I discovered his quartets along with those by Weinberg and Meyer around the same time and all were wonderful discoveries.
Do listen to
No.4 again. That's the most 'normal' one, sounds similar to the last two Hindemith SQs, the two more mature ones (especially the FIRST Eb SQ).
I listened to No. 4 last night. I don't know if I'd call it the "most normal one" and it does not strike me as significantly different in style from the others. But I still have not spent that much time with these works. Although, I like what I've heard, a lot, and will continue to revisit them.
Quote from: sanantonio on June 23, 2013, 04:48:29 AM
Here's a link from Amazon.us - Caprice Records is distributed by Naxos, so they should be easy to find ~
[asin]B0002ITAN8[/asin]
It is interesting that the works are not performed by a single string quartet. There are some that do more than one work, but I'd guess all in all there are 4-5 ensembles represented, maybe more. I've seen five volumes of the recordings.
Sorry, I am speaking of Krsystof Meyer - he is later, born in 1947 (I think) and his last SQ was written in 2007 (?) or thereabouts. He has written thirteen so far, and I consider them the best string quartets since Shostakovich.
[asin]B009TBNWBU[/asin]
Thanks so much.
Quote from: sanantonio on June 23, 2013, 06:54:39 AM
I listened to No. 4 last night. I don't know if I'd call it the "most normal one" and it does not strike me as significantly different in style from the others. But I still have not spent that much time with these works. Although, I like what I've heard, a lot, and will continue to revisit them.
Maybe I meant least thorny? Maybe it was No.5? Maybe ME should listen too?, haha!! One of them is a bit smoother melodically, somewhat reminding me of Britten's No.2 in its 'orientalisms'?
I'm yet to progress to the quartets, although I do have them. I am making my way through the symphonies with utter joy. Really enjoying 5 and 2, in particular.
Quote from: pencils on July 09, 2013, 02:33:40 PM
I'm yet to progress to the quartets, although I do have them. I am making my way through the symphonies with utter joy. Really enjoying 5 and 2, in particular.
2 and 3 are my favourites, for their redemptive endings in particular. I must listen to No 5. No 4 is an epic choral score with some magical moments. The BIS and Phono Suecia discs with symphonies 3 and 6 on are great introductions.
Rosenberg was recommended to me because i am a big Vagn Holmboe fan (whose first name I still don't know how to pronounce, after all these years), and I was told there are simmilarities, but I have been surprised at the amount of vocal content in them. Don't usually warm to vocal stuff so easily, but these are great.
Quote from: pencils on July 10, 2013, 02:57:05 AM
Rosenberg was recommended to me because i am a big Vagn Holmboe fan (whose first name I still don't know how to pronounce, after all these years), and I was told there are simmilarities, but I have been surprised at the amount of vocal content in them. Don't usually warm to vocal stuff so easily, but these are great.
You may like Tubin too. Do you know his music?
Eduard Tubin is excellent ! I have only ever met one other person who likes him. I have the BIS set of his symphonies and Kratt ;D
Quote from: pencils on July 10, 2013, 09:48:35 AM
Eduard Tubin is excellent ! I have only ever met one other person who likes him. I have the BIS set of his symphonies and Kratt ;D
Make this another person who likes Tubin! :D Neeme Jarvi's Tubin series is really good but I have yet to hear Arvo Volmer's recordings for the Alba label.
(http://cdn.naxos.com/SharedFiles/images/cds/others/9.80751.gif)
The Third symphony is derivative in form and content but has a remarkable degree of anger and urgency particularly in the outer movements.
Enjoyed No.3. In fact, so far I would go 5, 2, 3, 7... Also realised I am missing 9-end of the cycle. I hate incomplete sets... Bah. :(
Thanks pencils.
Pastoral section in the first movement of Symphony 1 is just beautiful. So many colourful sections to this symphony. Wow.
Indeed he's an interesting late romantic; I got hold of a couple of the quartet recordings a few years ago but the Third is my first symphony, to which I'll give its due over the next few days.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 10, 2013, 06:30:42 PM
Make this another person who likes Tubin! :D Neeme Jarvi's Tubin series is really good but I have yet to hear Arvo Volmer's recordings for the Alba label.
I have both sets. I like the Volmer but if I had to choose one only I'd stick with the Jarvi. The sets do compliment each other in a way. The Volmer recordings are better but the BIS performances are more involving IMHO.
Just to be clear, I believe it waaas the String Quartet No.5 that was the most, mm, 'integrated', or 'for easy ears' or what have you.
Quote from: snyprrr on July 11, 2013, 07:48:57 AM
Just to be clear, I believe it waaas the String Quartet No.5 that was the most, mm, 'integrated', or 'for easy ears' or what have you.
Cheers, my friend. I shall make sure I start with SQ 5 later this evening :) ... I am glad I listened to Sean and had Sym. 3 out of my intended listening order ;D
Is there a Tubin thread in here somewhere?
Ah, so there is. I see it now ::)
Considering I don't usually 'do' choral music quite so much, I have been deeply impacted by the choral elements to Rosenberg's symphonies - am listening again to Symphony No.4 "Johannes uppenbarelse", and the interplay between vocal/choral and the orchestra is outstanding. There is a lyrical beauty and melody that is so immediately engaging, without it being simplistic. Again, it may just be me, and I am happy to continue with ignorance and error as my stock in trade, but there is something of Holmboe in here.
Not bits of him, because that would just be icky.
Hi pencils
Rosenberg has vigorous and purposeful mind, but don't you think this isn't really first-rate music?
From your posts I'm wondering what great Scandinavian music you might know- the Grieg Piano concerto or Sibelius Second symphony, for instance?
Morning Sean ;D
Not first rate music? *holds out warding-off-cross in your general direction* ... ha. I am becoming a big Rosenberg fan, so I am very much enjoying him.
There is a fair bit of Scandinavian/Finnish music that floats my boat. I started with the obvious culprits such as Sibelius (I have worn out the Vänskä and Davis cycles), and the Nielsen (Decca) symphonies, like lots of people, I think. Greatly enjoy everything by Vagn Holmboe, and revisiting Pettersson's symphonies too recently. Other notables at the moment are Per Nørgård (Symph 2 & 3 in particular), loving the melodies of Rangström 2 & 4, Hugo Alfvén in the Naxos cycle, and lots of lovely Langgaard.
Very good. However only Sibelius plus a little Nielsen and even a dash of Alfven is great music, the rest you mention is basically peanuts and only of passing interest...
As for Christian crosses I wouldn't fret too much.
Quote from: Sean on July 17, 2013, 06:54:32 AM
Very good. However only Sibelius plus a little Nielsen and even a dash of Alfven is great music, the rest you mention is basically peanuts and only of passing interest...
As for Christian crosses I wouldn't fret too much.
Hehe. *holds out religious relic of choice*
As always, I am keen to be pointed toward greatness if you can impart some fine new music in my direction ... :)
*munches peanuts in meantime*
Quote from: pencils on July 17, 2013, 09:01:35 AM
Hehe. *holds out religious relic of choice*
As always, I am keen to be pointed toward greatness if you can impart some fine new music in my direction ... :)
*munches peanuts in meantime*
String Quartet No.5?
Dedicated to Sibelius...
Quote from: snyprrr on July 17, 2013, 11:45:03 AM
String Quartet No.5?
Dedicated to Sibelius...
Surely it is 'peanuts and only of passing interest' ??? ;)
In seriousness, though, I don't know the SQs at all, beyond the 12th. Worth making a priority investment?
The Holmboe quartets? They find this a sense of gravity but the contrived waywardness eventually tires. I've tried a couple of the Rosenberg and they didn't stay with me.
pencils, pal, you need to focus on the core repertory- get yourself a guidebook instead of just going down your postmodern all options total availability brainless CD store, where you can't tell titanic achievements from peanuts because the CDs are all just sold in the same brainless way, and find out why indeed some music is more important and more recorded than other music.
But I don't care!!
Quote from: pencils on July 17, 2013, 12:25:01 PM
Surely it is 'peanuts and only of passing interest' ??? ;)
In seriousness, though, I don't know the SQs at all, beyond the 12th. Worth making a priority investment?
I thought you had em from your original posts??
Quote from: Sean on July 17, 2013, 06:46:42 PM
The Holmboe quartets? They find this a sense of gravity but the contrived waywardness eventually tires. I've tried a couple of the Rosenberg and they didn't stay with me.
pencils, pal, you need to focus on the core repertory- get yourself a guidebook instead of just going down your postmodern all options total availability brainless CD store, where you can't tell titanic achievements from peanuts because the CDs are all just sold in the same brainless way, and find out why indeed some music is more important and more recorded than other music.
But I don't care!!
Hi Sean
You certainly have an 'interesting' tone.
The thing I love about music listening and collecting, even after 20+ years of doing so, is the breadth of possibilities and material available. In the early years, I avidly purchased the Penguin Guide each year, and bound my copies of Gramophone with a collector's care, and I'm glad I did - particularly when I, like lots do, got sucked into the rather futile obsession with acquiring all 27 DG Mahler symphony cycles from every conceivable conductor, for example. Some works do deserve multiple recordings, though, don't they? Always good to have a library base to go back to - even in these days of forums/groups/facebook/supposed postmodern brainlessness. Equally good to be reminded of 'the big guns' and the need to appreciate those composers and works which are universally acclaimed.
I do, however, appreciate the fluidity of our postmodern culture, where the concept of a core repertory will differ from person to person. Good job we are not all alike.
Quote from: snyprrr on July 17, 2013, 07:27:54 PM
I thought you had em from your original posts??
Hey, snyprrr
I had intended to go and download a couple of the recorded sets the other day after your recommendation of SQ 5, but got somewhat distracted with other purchases! I need to rectify that by spending yet more money...
Hi pencils, well it was one of my somewhat ranting posts. You know your stuff though, I can see that- you've gone up a few rungs on my ladder. I had the 1984 Penguin and it was enormously useful in identifying core repertory and performances- I wore out my first copy then bought another one, which I still have...
Don't worry about the Mahler cycles and indeed I'm more interested in interpretation these days than getting to know new material, though I still get seduced into exploring stuff. Mahler's very lucky on record too.
The availability today is staggering and fantastic but the huge advantage we had years ago was that the greatest music was presented to us in record stores and you could more innocently build up a real understanding of hierarchies of interconnections across it all.
Availability is only really useful if you know what to do with it... Years back you ordered fringe stuff when you were ready for it and knew what you were doing, not had it stuffed in your face.
Quote from: pencils on July 18, 2013, 01:43:11 AM
Hey, snyprrr
I had intended to go and download a couple of the recorded sets the other day after your recommendation of SQ 5, but got somewhat distracted with other purchases! I need to rectify that by spending yet more money...
You need to find the CDCDCD Thread!! look it up, it's for you!! ;) :D
Quote from: snyprrr on July 18, 2013, 06:19:00 AM
You need to find the CDCDCD Thread!! look it up, it's for you!! ;) :D
I am intrigued. I shall do so as soon as I am in front of a (non-work) pc ... thank you :o
Quote from: pencils on July 18, 2013, 07:57:15 AM
I am intrigued. I shall do so as soon as I am in front of a (non-work) pc ... thank you :o
It's in 'The Diner' section - currently second page in. :)
Found and connected, thanks!
I am pretty desperate to get hold of symphonies 9ff, now, btw.
Bah. *kicks desk*
I know not everyone thinks that Rosenberg is the strongest Nordic symphonist, and I would agree that there are others more gifted, but this musical amateur has a real love for him. Of the 8 that I have in my possession, nos.1 & 5 stand up to most rivals. Listening to 5 again now, and the lyricism just bowls me over. So many impressive sections.
Just saying.
It baffles me why not more of Rosenberg's music is recorded. His Symphony no. 3 is a masterpiece of the genre, as well as being one of the greatest Swedish symphonies. It boasts one of the most powerful and memorable conclusions in all of music! I love a lot of Rosenberg's other works, but none are on the level of Symphony no. 3 IMO. Get the Blomstedt performance on Phono Suecia and avoid the Venzago one on BIS.
I would agree wholeheartedly. It is a tremendous work. None of the symphonies have failed to make their mark with me, even the much longer 4th. I have a tendency to lose my grip on pieces that long, but not in this case. I guess he has simply grabbed me in the same way Holmboe did, years ago.
Go figure.
Since Rosenberg's music (especially his orchestral output) is so poorly represented on disc, it might be of interest to Rosenberg admirers here that some of his unrecorded works have been uploaded to YouTube:
Symphony no. 1: http://youtu.be/ZlmaWL-112k (http://youtu.be/ZlmaWL-112k)
Symphony no. 7: http://youtu.be/d0vQFz_SkeM (http://youtu.be/d0vQFz_SkeM)
Symphony no. 8 In Candidum: http://youtu.be/rKeNXHKLGqI (http://youtu.be/rKeNXHKLGqI)
Viola Concerto: http://youtu.be/EqVRO6hlUsg (http://youtu.be/EqVRO6hlUsg)
All are excellent works that make me wonder why no commercial recordings exist!
Quote from: kyjo on August 09, 2013, 06:50:08 PM
Since Rosenberg's music (especially his orchestral output) is so poorly represented on disc, it might be of interest to Rosenberg admirers here that some of his unrecorded works have been uploaded to YouTube:
Symphony no. 1: http://youtu.be/ZlmaWL-112k (http://youtu.be/ZlmaWL-112k)
Symphony no. 7: http://youtu.be/d0vQFz_SkeM (http://youtu.be/d0vQFz_SkeM)
Symphony no. 8 In Candidum: http://youtu.be/rKeNXHKLGqI (http://youtu.be/rKeNXHKLGqI)
Viola Concerto: http://youtu.be/EqVRO6hlUsg (http://youtu.be/EqVRO6hlUsg)
All are excellent works that make me wonder why no commercial recordings exist!
That's where I picked these up. I can cope with the radio voice overs, coughing and general audience of noises, because they are excellent. Each one has charm and deserves recording, but 1 is outstanding.
I'm currently in Stockholm but doubt I'll be allowed anywhere near a CD shop; however, I have been thinking of my favourite Swedish composers, notably Rosenberg, Pettersson, Peterson-Berger, Wiren, Larsson and Atterberg. My family out here played a CD featuring music by Alfven and Lars Erik Larsson's engaging Pastoral Suite. I had Rosenberg's 8th Symphony on LP but did not like it as much as No 2,3,4 or 6. I must listen to No 1 on You Tube.
Quote from: vandermolen on August 09, 2013, 11:39:31 PM
I'm currently in Stockholm but doubt I'll be allowed anywhere near a CD shop; however, I have been thinking of my favourite Swedish composers, notably Rosenberg, Pettersson, Peterson-Berger, Wiren, Larsson and Atterberg. My family out here played a CD featuring music by Alfven and Lars Erik Larsson's engaging Pastoral Suite. I had Rosenberg's 8th Symphony on LP but did not like it as much as No 2,3,4 or 6. I must listen to No 1 on You Tube.
Reading this, I'm reminded again that we have similar areas of interest. Hope your time in Stockholm is going well :)
Any thoughts on the Rosenberg 1?
I've been working my way through the Rosenberg Symphonies on Youtube.
I'm currently listening No. 8 and it seems to work very well. Apparently it exists in two versions - from 1974 with a choir and from 1980 without. Any thoughts on which is best, and where it might be possible to get hold of the 1980 version.
I also quite enjoyed the first three and No. 7. I sense that this is is a composer whose Symphonies would reward repeated hearing.
On the other hand, I remember being distinctly underwhelmed by the recording of Symphony No. 4 ( why I haven't investigated further until now). The work doesn't seem to gel, at least for me. Does anyone have any thoughts on this piece?
One further thought is that he somehow reminds me of Rubbra. I'm not sure why.
Quote from: Androcles on October 16, 2016, 01:25:47 PM
I've been working my way through the Rosenberg Symphonies on Youtube.
I'm currently listening No. 8 and it seems to work very well. Apparently it exists in two versions - from 1974 with a choir and from 1980 without. Any thoughts on which is best, and where it might be possible to get hold of the 1980 version.
I also quite enjoyed the first three and No. 7. I sense that this is is a composer whose Symphonies would reward repeated hearing.
On the other hand, I remember being distinctly underwhelmed by the recording of Symphony No. 4 ( why I haven't investigated further until now). The work doesn't seem to gel, at least for me. Does anyone have any thoughts on this piece?
One further thought is that he somehow reminds me of Rubbra. I'm not sure why.
I wouldn't disagree with the Rubbra analogy. The redemptive (IMHO) ending of Rubbra's Symphony 4, for examples, has echoes of the endings of Rosenberg's symphonies 2 and 3. These are my two favourite Rosenberg symphonies and amongst my favourite 20th symphonies. No.3, in particular, is a masterpiece. It's a shame that BIS did not produce a symphony cycle. I had No.8 on LP but did not like it as much as the earlier ones. No.4 has some great moments although some longeurs too. Nice to see this thread revived. I have three versions of Symphony 3 on Finlandia, BIS and Phono Suecia.. All are good. I'm pleased that the British conductor Sir Andrew Davis recorded it.
Quote from: vandermolen on October 16, 2016, 09:58:11 PM
No.3, in particular, is a masterpiece. It's a shame that BIS did not produce a symphony cycle. I had No.8 on LP but did not like it as much as the earlier ones... I have three versions of Symphony 3 on Finlandia, BIS and Phono Suecia.. All are good. I'm pleased that the British conductor Sir Andrew Davis recorded it.
Thanks for your comments. I might just have a crack at listening to the Symphony No. 3 a few more times. I need to have a listen to 5 and 6 too.
Yes, indeed, good to see Rosenberg revived. I actually think very highly of Johannes Uppenbarelse, while admitting it is a bit of an odd one. Sadly, the best version, on a double LP conducted by Herbert Blomstedt, never made it onto CD and is completely unavailable - copies must be worth a fortune. The Ehrling is good, although lacking some of Blomstedt's urgency and sheer power (the "Beast" section was hair-raising, I recall). There was another LP version I also remember hearing (Lucerne Festival, possibly) in which the chorus sang in Swedish and the baritone in German, which only accentuated the oddity.
Robert Layton has referred to Örtagårdsmästaren as HR's masterpiece, which I can more or less understand, although the last movement is a bit of a shout. It's very good to see the Westerberg performance, I assume captured off-air from Sveriges Radio, on YouTube, as it's the only alternative to Rosenberg's own ancient recordng. The neglect of this one on disc is inexplicable - if the first couple of minutes of it aren't among the most beautiful things written last century, then I'm the Swedish Chef.
I can remember the BIS cycle being talked of for several years, then being dropped, supposedly because of disagreements between conductor and production team. Great shame.
I'd forgotten to mention Symphony 6 - it is a marvellous work, reminding me of the work of Vagn Holmboe although others may disagree. Anyway it is a powerful score with a strong sense of nature. It was my first encounter with Rosenberg on a Vox/Turnabout LP. The same performance is available with a wonderful performance of Symphony 3 on a Phono Suecia CD. Very expensive on Amazon UK but much cheaper on the American Amazon site. I think that this is the greatest Rosenberg CD as it features fine performances of two of his most inspiriting works:
[asin]B0000264FZ[/asin]
Quote from: Androcles on October 16, 2016, 11:17:43 PM
Thanks for your comments. I might just have a crack at listening to the Symphony No. 3 a few more times. I need to have a listen to 5 and 6 too.
I love the redemptive 'triumph over the odds' last movement of Symphony 3.
I had a more concentrated listen to the 3rd yesterday. I see what you mean. The finale is impressive. It also seems better constructed than the 4th.
Quote from: Androcles on October 18, 2016, 08:00:23 AM
I had a more concentrated listen to the 3rd yesterday. I see what you mean. The finale is impressive. It also seems better constructed than the 4th.
Agreed. Try the end of Symphony 2 'Sinfonia Grave' which is similarly inspiriting.
Quote from: DaveF on October 17, 2016, 12:25:18 AM
Yes, indeed, good to see Rosenberg revived. I actually think very highly of Johannes Uppenbarelse, while admitting it is a bit of an odd one. Sadly, the best version, on a double LP conducted by Herbert Blomstedt, never made it onto CD and is completely unavailable - copies must be worth a fortune. The Ehrling is good, although lacking some of Blomstedt's urgency and sheer power (the "Beast" section was hair-raising, I recall). There was another LP version I also remember hearing (Lucerne Festival, possibly) in which the chorus sang in Swedish and the baritone in German, which only accentuated the oddity.
Robert Layton has referred to Örtagårdsmästaren as HR's masterpiece, which I can more or less understand, although the last movement is a bit of a shout. It's very good to see the Westerberg performance, I assume captured off-air from Sveriges Radio, on YouTube, as it's the only alternative to Rosenberg's own ancient recordng. The neglect of this one on disc is inexplicable - if the first couple of minutes of it aren't among the most beautiful things written last century, then I'm the Swedish Chef.
I can remember the BIS cycle being talked of for several years, then being dropped, supposedly because of disagreements between conductor and production team. Great shame.
I just had a listen to the Westerberg version of Symphony 5 on Youtube. Very impressive, I thought. Rosenberg seems to me to get some very light-filled sounds from the orchestra. His music sometimes reminds me of a stained- glass window. I thought the final movement wasn't too bad.
Quote from: Androcles on October 20, 2016, 01:16:11 PM
I just had a listen to the Westerberg version of Symphony 5 on Youtube. Very impressive, I thought. Rosenberg seems to me to get some very light-filled sounds from the orchestra. His music sometimes reminds me of a stained- glass window. I thought the final movement wasn't too bad.
I like the stained-glass window analogy - particularly with Symphony 4. I have Rosenberg conducting Symphony 5 in a boxed set of him conducting his own work - I must listen to it again although I'm sure that 2 and 3 will remain my favourites.
Quote from: Androcles on October 20, 2016, 01:16:11 PM
I just had a listen to the Westerberg version of Symphony 5 on Youtube. Very impressive, I thought. Rosenberg seems to me to get some very light-filled sounds from the orchestra. His music sometimes reminds me of a stained- glass window. I thought the final movement wasn't too bad.
I like the stained-glass window analogy - particularly with Symphony 4. I have Rosenberg conducting Symphony 5 in a boxed set of him conducting his own work - I must listen to it again although I'm sure that 2 and 3 will remain my favourites:
[asin]B000027S2E[/asin]
This box set used to be incredibly expensive but now you can pick it up relatively cheaply on Amazon UK.
Quote from: vandermolen on October 20, 2016, 01:55:39 PM
I like the stained-glass window analogy - particularly with Symphony 4. I have Rosenberg conducting Symphony 5 in a boxed set of him conducting his own work - I must listen to it again although I'm sure that 2 and 3 will remain my favourites:
[asin]B000027S2E[/asin]
This box set used to be incredibly expensive but now you can pick it up relatively cheaply on Amazon UK.
Ordered!
Rummaging around on the internet, I came across this article.
http://dvm.nu/periodical/ns/ns_1992/ns_1992_03/hilding-rosenberg-centenary/
It gives quite a good idea of his music and stylistic concerns in different periods - and a few ideas as to what pieces to look out for. :)
Today I listened again to the disc of Symphony No.4. It strikes me that this work is an oratorio rather than a symphony, and works better thought of in that way. Symphony No. 5 feels more symphonic and a better work overall.
When I manage to quash all feelings of guilt about ordering another CD (I buy a lot of books too...), I might buy the disc of Symphony No. 5.
Quote from: vandermolen on October 20, 2016, 01:55:39 PM
I like the stained-glass window analogy - particularly with Symphony 4. I have Rosenberg conducting Symphony 5 in a boxed set of him conducting his own work - I must listen to it again although I'm sure that 2 and 3 will remain my favourites:
[asin]B000027S2E[/asin]
This box set used to be incredibly expensive but now you can pick it up relatively cheaply on Amazon UK.
Hi Jeffrey !
How could the second disc comprise the 3rd and 4th symphonies ? The 4th is almost 80 minutes long...?
Quote from: André on October 22, 2016, 06:32:32 PM
Hi Jeffrey !
How could the second disc comprise the 3rd and 4th symphonies ? The 4th is almost 80 minutes long...?
I'm in a pub having been away for the weekend so this is off the top of my head but I'll check when I get home Andre. It must be excerts from Symphony 4./ :)
A weekend away at the pub... :D
Anyone heard the 2 piano concertos ? Superb works, surprisingly romantic.
Quote from: André on October 23, 2016, 01:21:16 PM
A weekend away at the pub... :D
Anyone heard the 2 piano concertos ? Superb works, surprisingly romantic.
Actually I was away for the weekend in a different pub to the one I posted my message from. 8)
It was actually a walking in the countryside weekend and not a 'pub crawl' in case anyone got the wrong idea. I do have the piano concertos and must listen again.
Now why would anyone have the audacity to think it was a pub crawl?!! ;D
If it had been me......even IF I had something I could post a message from a pub with:I doubt if I'd have been able to find the door..........let alone the right button to press!!!
(The bar yes.....but heaven forbid the door!!!! ???)
Quote from: André on October 22, 2016, 06:32:32 PM
Hi Jeffrey !
How could the second disc comprise the 3rd and 4th symphonies ? The 4th is almost 80 minutes long...?
Andre!
I have Disc two in front of me now it is titled 'Hilding Rosenberg interprets the first version of his Third and Fourth Symphonies' (total time 75.31 mins.) Symphony 3 features spoken extracts before each movement from Romain Rolland read by the composer itself. This is a bit like the original version of Sinfonia Antartica by Vaughan Williams which featured spoken extracts which were later dropped on the basis, I think, that they broke up the continuity of the music. Still, it is fun to hear Rosenberg's voice although I've no idea what he is saying. As for Symphony 4 'The Revelation of St. John' it features 36.41 minutes of music and is designated as 'Fragments from the original version'. The recordings are from 1948 (Symphony 3 and 1940/44 for Symphony 4). It is a great CD set with an accompanying booklet of 114 pages.
Hope this helps! :)
Jeffrey
PS I find Rosenberg's performance of Symphony 3 very moving - especially the slow movement which sounds more Siberian than ever here - it is a live performance and more engaged than any other version.
Thanks, Jeffrey, you're the man ! :D
What about the 5th symphony ? From what I read I'm not sure if it's a "classical" symphonic work or some kind of oratorio ? I hesitate to plunge... I concur with your assessment of the 3rd. I have Andrew Davis' disc.
If I may add a recommendation: his string quartets are very interesting works, actually just as good as his symphonic ones. Any of the Caprice cds issued is worth exploring. They had the good sense to program them intelligently to make up satisfying musical programmes instead of slavishly following the chronological order (1-12 plus the unnumbered 1942 work).
Quote from: André on October 24, 2016, 12:38:05 PM
If I may add a recommendation: his string quartets are very interesting works, actually just as good as his symphonic ones. Any of the Caprice cds issued is worth exploring. They had the good sense to program them intelligently to make up satisfying musical programmes instead of slavishly following the chronological order (1-12 plus the unnumbered 1942 work).
I love them, particularly no 4, the most unashamedly romantic of them.
Quote from: André on October 24, 2016, 12:38:05 PM
Thanks, Jeffrey, you're the man ! :D
What about the 5th symphony ? From what I read I'm not sure if it's a "classical" symphonic work or some kind of oratorio ? I hesitate to plunge... I concur with your assessment of the 3rd. I have Andrew Davis' disc.
If I may add a recommendation: his string quartets are very interesting works, actually just as good as his symphonic ones. Any of the Caprice cds issued is worth exploring. They had the good sense to program them intelligently to make up satisfying musical programmes instead of slavishly following the chronological order (1-12 plus the unnumbered 1942 work).
Thanks Andre. I meant sibelian and not Siberian by the way in my comment on Symphony 3 ::). I will look out for the string quartets. Some think that Symphony 5 is Rosenberg's masterpiece but I recall, on the basis on one or two listens only not to enjoy it as much as symphonies 2 and 3. I think No.3 is the 'masterpiece'. But I will listen to No.5 again as it is ages since I heard it and my opinion might be different now. :)
Quote from: The new erato on October 24, 2016, 10:21:21 PM
I love them, particularly no 4, the most unashamedly romantic of them.
Thanks - look forward to hearing your views on the boxed set.
Quote from: vandermolen on October 25, 2016, 12:29:20 AM
Some think that Symphony 5 is Rosenberg's masterpiece
This: http://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/rosenberg-the-revelation-of-st-john-symphony-no-4 (http://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/rosenberg-the-revelation-of-st-john-symphony-no-4) was the review I was thinking of in which Robert Layton does indeed make that claim - and yes, please, record companies, let's have the modern recording that he calls for in his last sentence.
It's strange how, to my ears, the beginning of no.5 is so close, both in notes and atmosphere, to the
Alcotts movement of the
Concord Sonata - two composers whom you can't imagine had even heard of one another, much less know one another's work.
Quote from: DaveF on October 25, 2016, 02:10:38 AM
This: http://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/rosenberg-the-revelation-of-st-john-symphony-no-4 (http://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/rosenberg-the-revelation-of-st-john-symphony-no-4) was the review I was thinking of in which Robert Layton does indeed make that claim - and yes, please, record companies, let's have the modern recording that he calls for in his last sentence.
It's strange how, to my ears, the beginning of no.5 is so close, both in notes and atmosphere, to the Alcotts movement of the Concord Sonata - two composers whom you can't imagine had even heard of one another, much less know one another's work.
I like no.4 and 5. They are my favorites upon limited listening :)
Quote from: André on October 24, 2016, 12:38:05 PM
Thanks, Jeffrey, you're the man ! :D
What about the 5th symphony ? From what I read I'm not sure if it's a "classical" symphonic work or some kind of oratorio ? I hesitate to plunge... I concur with your assessment of the 3rd. I have Andrew Davis' disc.
If I may add a recommendation: his string quartets are very interesting works, actually just as good as his symphonic ones. Any of the Caprice cds issued is worth exploring. They had the good sense to program them intelligently to make up satisfying musical programmes instead of slavishly following the chronological order (1-12 plus the unnumbered 1942 work).
Andre,
OK I hadn't realised that the individual CDs have their own detailed booklet notes too! It really is a superbly presented package. The booklet tells us that: 'only four fragments remain from the first performance in 1940' (Symphony 4) which is what we have here. Apparently Rosenberg composed a sung rather than recited version of Symphony 4 because at the first performance in English in Chicago in 1948 the actor read all the biblical extracts in one go ignoring the pause marks. Rosenberg wished for this fiasco not to be repeated in the future!
The Robert Layton article is interesting. I remember reading it ages ago.
Rosenberg's own reading of the original Romain Rolland passages which were included in the original 1939 version of Symphony 3 were recorded in 1977. Also this early recording includes a fugue in the third movement which was later excised. The plot thickens!
I listened to the CD with symphonies 3 and extracts from No.4 yesterday (from the boxed set above). Despite the age of the recording I thought that Rosenberg conducting his Third Symphony is the greatest recorded performance of this work. It has an urgency, intensity and unique visionary quality, especially in the slow movement and inspiriting last movement. It is one of my favourite symphonies and I also have versions conducted by Blomstedt (Phono Suecia) Andrew Davis (Finlandia) and Venzano (BIS) - they are all good (and I'm delighted that the British conductor Andrew Davis recorded this great score) but the Rosenberg version has a unique quality like Beecham's recording of Sibelius's Fourth Symphony or Koussevitsky's recording of Howard Hanson's Third Symphony. If you want a single CD version of a modern recording I would opt for the BIS or Phono Suecia release They are coupled with the very fine Symphony 6 'Sinfonia Semplice'. Blomstedt's version of Symphony 6 conveys a greater intensity but it is an older recording. The Andrew Davis version is also a fine performance of Symphony 3.
Also the extracts from Symphony 4 (spoken narration version) includes my favourite section (track 11) - a poetic passage which always makes me think of the stars twinkling in the night sky.
On to Symphony 5.
:)
Added later:
Symphony 5 is a majestic score but the problem here is the 1944 recording - there is a great deal of surface noise. One gets a sense of the symphony's power and profundity but the impact is blunted by the distortion on the recording. Also, unlike symphonies 2,3,4,6 and 8, as far as I know, there is no other recording. It desperately cries out for a new recording.
Added even later:
After Symphony 5 comes 'The Holy Night' - a beautiful Christmas Oratorio for narrator, mixed-choir, soloists and orchestra. The recording from 1949 is so much better than that provided for Symphony 5. The work shows the influence of folk-song, Gregorian chant and Bach.
And here is a modern recording of the lovely 'Holy Night' (around £5.00 on Amazon UK). I like the Lars-Erik Larsson work too:
[asin]B000038I80[/asin]
Apparently it (Holy Night) regularly features on the radio in Sweden at Christmas. I expect that it might appeal to admirers of the choral works of Vaughan Williams or Finzi. The touching final section 'Song of the Star' also reminded me of the moving ending of Delius's underrated 'Requiem'.
Jeffrey, thanks! As always you are the most objective critic around.
With all the "supply" (Amazon) around it's important for us to separate the good (loads our visa account) from the indispensable (gladdens our heart and enriches our collection :D).
Quote from: André on October 26, 2016, 01:26:28 PM
Jeffrey, thanks! As always you are the most objective critic around.
With all the "supply" (Amazon) around it's important for us to separate the good (loads our visa account) from the indispensable (gladdens our heart and enriches our collection :D).
Thank you my friend! :)
Actually I don't think I'm that objective as I tend to react emotionally to most things. 8)
You are so right about separating the 'good' from the indispensable. Being semi-retired now I have to follow this advice. However the Rosenberg symphonies discussed above and the 'Holy Night' count as indespinsible, inspiriting and heart-warming. I certainly indend to listen to Holy Night at Christmas this year.
Now, back to Amazon UK hahaha. :)
Count me as other fan of this awesome composer. I'm listening to the symphonies (something rare on me, isn't it? ;) ) and I'm really impressed. I've played the first 3 of them (the 1st and 2nd on YouTube). This is absolutely wonderful stuff. As I'm not a musician, I can't speak about them on musical terms, just I can say they have great power, a sort of seriousness which I find engaging, and a strong sense of transcendence. His style is something like Nielsen meets Hindemith. I'm not meaning he's derivative, it's just how I perceive the music. Where has Rosenberg been all my life?
Now I intend to hear the 4th Symphony (The Revelation of St. John).
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on September 11, 2018, 01:38:01 PM
Count me as other fan of this awesome composer. I'm listening to the symphonies (something rare on me, isn't it? ;) ) and I'm really impressed. I've played the first 3 of them (the 1st and 2nd on YouTube). This is absolutely wonderful stuff. As I'm not a musician, I can't speak about them on musical terms, just I can say they have great power, a sort of seriousness which I find engaging, and a strong sense of transcendence. His style is something like Nielsen meets Hindemith. I'm not meaning he's derivative, it's just how I perceive the music. Where has Rosenberg been all my life?
Now I intend to hear the 4th Symphony (The Revelation of St. John).
I agree with you Cesar (nothing unusual about that either ;D) and think that Rosenberg is a very fine composer and underrated - why did not BIS record all the symphonies as they did, for example, with Vagn Holmboe and Tubin? I think that Rosenberg is just as deserving. I remember hearing Symphony 2 ('Grave') on the radio and rather enjoying it and then it came to the incredibly moving, redemptive ending which I found and still do find overwhelming. No.3 is even better and also features a wonderfully inspiriting and moving conclusion. Symphony 4 has wonderful moments of great stillness and beauty. As someone here rightly said it's like looking at a stained-glass window. My other favourite is the sibelian Symphony 6, which I find gripping throughout (must play that one later today!) - also, if you don't already know it you must hear the beautiful Christmas cantata 'The Holy Night' which is magical. At least BIS recorded symphonies 3 and 6 together but it is a shame that they never pushed on with the project.
Quote from: vandermolen on September 12, 2018, 12:05:12 AM
I agree with you Cesar (nothing unusual about that either ;D) and think that Rosenberg is a very fine composer and underrated - why did not BIS record all the symphonies as they did, for example, with Vagn Holmboe and Tubin? I think that Rosenberg is just as deserving. I remember hearing Symphony 2 ('Grave') on the radio and rather enjoying it and then it came to the incredibly moving, redemptive ending which I found and still do find overwhelming. No.3 is even better and also features a wonderfully inspiriting and moving conclusion. Symphony 4 has wonderful moments of great stillness and beauty. As someone here rightly said it's like looking at a stained-glass window. My other favourite is the sibelian Symphony 6, which I find gripping throughout (must play that one later today!) - also, if you don't already know it you must hear the beautiful Christmas cantata 'The Holy Night' which is magical. At least BIS recorded symphonies 3 and 6 together but it is a shame that they never pushed on with the project.
I agree with all you wrote, Jeffrey (it's definitely the rule most of the time :D )
He's been one of the greatest revelations this year. I don't know why I waited so long to pay attention to this wondrous music. It's better late than never! It's the sort of music that appeals to me in a high degree. Also, it's truly a crime that we don't have a recorded complete cycle, as you pointed out, being a relatively major composer from Sweden. And yes, the endings from the 2nd and 3rd symphonies certainly lifted my spirit.
Today I listened to the symphonies 4 and 5 (the latter on YouTube). I confimed my admiration by hearing these two works. His choral writing is stupendous and quite effective, overtly dramatic (but not too much) in the 4th and more subdued and mystic in the 5th. Perhaps the 4th was a little overlong, but I did enjoy it very much and there weren't many dull moments. As for the 5th, I think this one I liked the most. Its beginning is quite magical and peaceful, reminding me of Sibelius a little bit. The bells add an interesting touch to the piece, and overall, I've always liked the use of bells in music.
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on September 12, 2018, 08:50:34 PM
I agree with all you wrote, Jeffrey (it's definitely the rule most of the time :D )
He's been one of the greatest revelations this year. I don't know why I waited so long to pay attention to this wondrous music. It's better late than never! It's the sort of music that appeals to me in a high degree. Also, it's truly a crime that we don't have a recorded complete cycle, as you pointed out, being a relatively major composer from Sweden. And yes, the endings from the 2nd and 3rd symphonies certainly lifted my spirit.
Today I listened to the symphonies 4 and 5 (the latter on YouTube). I confimed my admiration by hearing these two works. His choral writing is stupendous and quite effective, overtly dramatic (but not too much) in the 4th and more subdued and mystic in the 5th. Perhaps the 4th was a little overlong, but I did enjoy it very much and there weren't many dull moments. As for the 5th, I think this one I liked the most. Its beginning is quite magical and peaceful, reminding me of Sibelius a little bit. The bells add an interesting touch to the piece, and overall, I've always liked the use of bells in music.
I hardly know the 5th at all. According to Robert Layton it is Rosenberg's masterpiece. I only have it in the boxed set 'Rosenberg conducts Rosenberg' in a rather old recording. I need to hear this work again as, initially, it made little impression on me compared to symphonies 3,2,6 and 4 (in that order of preference).
From WAYLTN thread.
Rosenberg's birthday today (b.21/06/1892)
This CD would make a great introduction to Rosenberg's music, with the 'catchy', atmospheric and inspiriting 'Orpheus in Town' followed by arguably Rosenberg's greatest symphony in a good recording. I'm sorry that Finlandia didn't record more Rosenberg symphonies, some have never appeared on CD. Tubin and Vagn Holmboe have all their symphonies represented on CD but I consider Rosenberg to be no less deserving:
(//)
Quote from: vandermolen on June 21, 2021, 03:48:26 AM
From WAYLTN thread.
Rosenberg's birthday today (b.21/06/1892)
This CD would make a great introduction to Rosenberg's music, with the 'catchy', atmospheric and inspiriting 'Orpheus in Town' followed by arguably Rosenberg's greatest symphony in a good recording. I'm sorry that Finlandia didn't record more Rosenberg symphonies, some have never appeared on CD. Tubin and Vagn Holmboe have all their symphonies represented on CD but I consider Rosenberg to be no less deserving:
(//)
Very much enjoy Rosenberg's music, and still primarily listen to his symphonies from YT rips saved to my phone. Time a complete cycle was available, as you say. I much prefer his SQs to those by Holmboe - bought both as digital downloads in the same swoop some years ago, but the Rosenberg have far more play by some distance.
There is a (fairly) modern recording of no.5 from Sveriges Radio that seems to get broadcast at least once a year. It can currently be heard here:
https://sverigesradio.se/avsnitt/1714723 (https://sverigesradio.se/avsnitt/1714723)
starting about 27:30. It is rather better than the composer's own recording on wax cylinders or whatever.
Quote from: DaveF on June 21, 2021, 11:12:07 AM
There is a (fairly) modern recording of no.5 from Sveriges Radio that seems to get broadcast at least once a year. It can currently be heard here:
https://sverigesradio.se/avsnitt/1714723 (https://sverigesradio.se/avsnitt/1714723)
starting about 27:30. It is rather better than the composer's own recording on wax cylinders or whatever.
Oh, thank you Dave. I have the composers recording in a 'Rosenberg conducts Rosenberg' boxed set. It does indeed sound like it was recorded on the runway at Stockholm Airport!
What do you think about the third symphony?
Synphony 5 is a good work but sound quality is too much poor
(https://media.ginza.se/Images/item_img_1200/147360.jpg)
Quote from: Roy Bland on May 19, 2023, 06:11:21 PMSynphony 5 is a good work but sound quality is too much poor
I have an off-air recording from Swedish Radio. The sound is still not perfect, but very much better than Rosenberg's recording. If you would like a copy, send me a PM with an e-mail address and I'll send you the mp3 files.
(Or anyone else reading this).
Quote from: W.A. Mozart on May 19, 2023, 07:35:48 AMWhat do you think about the third symphony?
Arguably Rosenberg's finest symphony. A moving masterpiece IMO. As with Symphony No.2 'Grave' it has a wonderfully inspiriting last movement. I have four recordings of it - Venzago, Andrew Davis and, best of all Blomstedt. Also Rosenberg himself conducting, with the spoken introductions. I wish that BIS had recorded a complete cycle of his symphonies as they did for Vagn Holmboe and Pettersson.
I would especially recommend symphonies 2,3 4 and 6 'Semplice'.
Happy Birthday Hilding Rosenberg (born 21st June 1892)
Now playing 'Dance Suite from Orpheus in Town'
I have the "Rosenberg plays Rosenberg" box and recently put on the 3rd which has always been my favourite and among the finest of Swedish romantic symphonies but I wonder if that might change if the technical level of the other recordings was better. Must listen to the 5th again as it's absolutely ages since I tried that. A nice thread to remind me of a composer who receives rather little attention outside Sweden.
Quote from: lunar22 on June 21, 2023, 12:45:34 AMI have the "Rosenberg plays Rosenberg" box and recently put on the 3rd which has always been my favourite and among the finest of Swedish romantic symphonies but I wonder if that might change if the technical level of the other recordings was better. Must listen to the 5th again as it's absolutely ages since I tried that. A nice thread to remind me of a composer who receives rather little attention outside Sweden.
I wouldn't necessarily call Rosenberg's Third "romantic" (certainly not compared to the music that his countrymen Atterberg, Peterson-Berger, Alfven et al were writing around the same time), but in any case, it's a fine work in a "beefy" neoclassical mold. Stylistic comparisons to Hindemith are not inapt, though Rosenberg isn't derivative either. My favorite works by Rosenberg that I know are probably his two substantial and personal piano concerti, recorded on the Caprice label. Anyone with a taste for 20th century PCs shouldn't miss these works!
Rosenberg is a composer that I rate really highly. Picked up his SQs some years ago alongside the Holmboe set, as they were on sale. Much to commend them, even though I don't revisit them nearly as often as I should.
Listening today in honour of the day.
Great fan of the SQ cycle. Recently played nos 4 & 5.
Quote from: kyjo on June 21, 2023, 08:47:34 AMI wouldn't necessarily call Rosenberg's Third "romantic"
yes, of course you're right. I was using the term broadly to lump together all the basically tonal Swedish early-mid 20th century Swedes. In fact, the neo-classical influence is indeed quite strong with a number of them.