GMG Classical Music Forum

Quote from: Symphonien on April 13, 2007, 12:33:38 AM
So far the only disk I have is the EMI Matrix 5 one, but I absolutely love it! All the pieces there are great, but I especially like the Threnody, Canticum Canticorum Salomonis and the Dream of Jacob.

Quote from: Spitvalve on April 12, 2007, 11:19:15 PM
The Sextet comes at the top of the list - really colorful, dramatic & fun piece of chamber music.

Quote
I also like the Clarinet Quartet

Quote
I also like the 3rd Symphony - I think it could become a serious crowd pleaser if given the chance.

QuoteAnd speaking of chorus, I also like a disc of his unaccompanied choral music made by some Finnish choir (I forget the name). The music is wonderfully atmospheric, & the disc as a whole allows you to trace all his stylistic turns from c. 1960 to the 1990s.

Quote from: MrOsa on April 13, 2007, 02:42:53 AM
I've seen the Sextet recommended quite a few times on the old forum, so I probably need to check that out, thanks!

Quote from: greg on April 13, 2007, 06:53:30 AM
Cool way to start off a new forum with a really cool Penderecki thread!

hmmm.... i don't know about the 'slightly pompous demeanor', though. He seems like a really gentle soul, even though he kinda looks like a tough guy. You should hear his voice, lol, i expected this really deep voice, but nah

Quote from: Cato on April 13, 2007, 09:16:42 AM
What is really annoying is that no company has yet issued Symphony #8.

Interested people will want to see this site:

http://www.penderecki.de/cds/instrumentalmusik/orchester/index.html

QuoteWell, I really had just one TV interview that I once saw in mind. He seemed more than slightly vain there but maybe it was a bad day or something...

Quote from: MrOsa on April 15, 2007, 01:10:38 PM
Nope. It was on Polish TV, years ago (well, 10 years let's say ;D). He seemed pleasant enough but there was that "I'm a GREAT composer air, listen to all the sagacious pronouncements I make!" air ;).

Quote from: MDL on April 18, 2007, 01:52:50 AM
I've found this picture of a recording of Utrenja conducted by Penderecki on Koch, but I can find no other information about it. Has anybody got, or even just seen, this CD? The Koch website is fairly useless, and there's nothing on Amazon.

Quote from: MrOsa on April 18, 2007, 06:22:12 AM
I searched a little more (Wratislavia Cantans + Utrenja this time), and found this info: PENDRECKI KRZYSZTOF - Utrenja / Jutrznia, Recorded live / Wratislavia Cantans 1997. The performers: Jadwiga Gadulanka - soprano, Vita Nikołaienko - mezzosoprano, Piotr Kusiewicz - tenor, Radosław Żukowski - bass, Gennadij Bezzubienkov - bass, Chór Filharmonii Narodowej, Warszawski Chór Chłopięcy, Orchester des Mitteldeutscher Rundfunk, Krzysztof Penderecki. And you were right - it WAS released by Koch (in 1998). There's more info (in Polish, I'm afraid) here (http://www.polmic.pl/nzopis.php?lang=pl&id=836).

Quote from: MrOsa on April 18, 2007, 06:33:01 AM
Bruce, the Polskie Nagrania disc that I have is still in print. It looks like this:
(http://www.polskienagrania.com.pl/okladki/212.jpg)

And it's available in Polish internet stores (haven't checked amazon): merlin (http://www.merlin.com.pl/frontend/browse/product/4,36669.html) and gigant (http://www.gigant.pl/html/produkt.asp?p=pwmqblentvealdgrmlha), for example.

It's a very good performance, with an excellent set of performers (including my favorite Polish soprano Stefania Woytowicz), conducted by a Polish contemporary music legend, Andrzej Markowski (he had done an enormous lot of first performances).

Maciek

Quote from: bhodges on April 18, 2007, 06:39:02 AM
Thanks so much, Maciek!  PS, Woytowicz is on the Ormandy recording, as well!  (Or perhaps you knew that... ;))  Here is the excerpt I found from The Musical Quarterly   (http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0027-4631(197204)58%3A2%3C330%3APU%3E2.0.CO%3B2-W).

--Bruce

Quote from: MDL on April 18, 2007, 07:02:11 AM
The Ormandy recording consists of the first half only, The Entombment. The Resurrection was written later. I actually prefer the Ormandy recording of the first half to the Polish recording. Unfortunately, it has never been released on CD. Neither has Kosmogonia, which inhabits a similar sound world.

Quote from: Maciek on January 04, 2008, 12:12:43 PM
What about the recording I posted for you in the Mystery Score thread? Have you finally listened to it?

Here's the link (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3125.msg97852.html#msg97852) - for those who've missed it.

Quote from: 僕はグレグ (Greg) on January 04, 2008, 12:08:20 PM
The World Premiere Recording of his 8th symphony on Naxos.com!

i don't think they have the audio up yet, though, because it doesn't seem to work  :P

Quote from: Maciek on January 05, 2008, 03:40:07 AM
A new recording of the Dies Irae?! :D That's one of my favorite Penderecki pieces!

OTOH, do I actually need a second recording...? Well, what I've heard of the 8th so far was also very tempting (and I don't generally take to Penderecki's symphonies)... Perhaps I'll have to get this new CD then. 8)

Quote from: Maciek on January 04, 2008, 12:12:43 PM
What about the recording I posted for you in the Mystery Score thread? Have you finally listened to it?

Here's the link (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3125.msg97852.html#msg97852) - for those who've missed it.

Quote from: Dm on January 08, 2008, 06:42:28 PM
Does anyone have an opinion of Penderecki's VIOLIN CONCERTI (1 or 2)?

Quote from: edward on January 08, 2008, 06:45:49 PM
For me, both are rambling, intermittently beautiful, but too loosely-structured for my taste.

For people interested in this composer, Naxos is about to release the Eighth Symphony ('Lieder der Verganglichkeit') on a disc with the Dies Irae and Aus den Psalmen Davids. When I heard this symphony, I felt it was one of Penderecki's more convincing recent works, so I'll be looking forward to reacquainting myself with it.

Quote from: Dm on January 08, 2008, 06:47:31 PM
Are there other Penderecki symphonies that you really like?

Quote from: edward on January 08, 2008, 06:51:35 PM
Not hugely. The Third has a superb central slow movement and is probably my favourite of the seven (I don't think there's a 6th yet). I do really like the Second, mostly because it's almost comically overwrought yet done with great flair, but I don't think it's particularly 'great' music.

Quote from: Dm on January 08, 2008, 06:42:28 PM
Does anyone have an opinion of Penderecki's VIOLIN CONCERTI (1 or 2)?

Quote from: Mark G. Simon on January 09, 2008, 04:48:52 AM
In fact everything Penderecki has written since the mid 70s is made up entirely of chromatic scale fragments, a few notes up, then a few notes down, a few notes up again, and so on. Sometimes he does it better than others, but it's always the same basic thing.

Quote from: MDL on January 09, 2008, 04:39:45 AM
Has anyone heard his second opera, Paradise Lost? I haven't, but I get the impression that's one lo-o-o-o-ong slog.

Quote from: Maciek on January 09, 2008, 05:21:49 AM
Actually, I loved it. But that might have been partly due to the great production. Also - it was a long time ago...

I think some of his later stuff is more than OK ("some" meaning "very little" in this context 0:)). (Besides, his early music wasn't exactly the most complicated stuff ever written either... ::)) Of those later pieces, I especially like the Credo. And those movements of the 8th that I've heard were surprisingly good too. What I find odd though is that just a couple of months ago, back in October 2007, the man said in an interview he still hadn't finished his 8th - had only half of it completed - and didn't know when it would be done. But the Naxos recording features Drabowicz who died in March 2007! What the hell is happening? Also: the recording is only about 6 minutes longer than the performance I posted. ??? But during that interview he clearly stated that what is about to be performed is very far from completion, as the whole thing would be more than twice as long (the interview I'm talking about was given right before that performance). I'm suspecting foul play: this has happened before with his Polish Requiem which was "first" recorded by Polskie Nagrania but in the next couple of years he continued adding on to it, and the final piece was much longer... :-\

Quote from: Maciek on January 31, 2008, 02:25:17 PM
Hope you guys appreciate having a seer on board! ;D

Quote from: Maciek on January 31, 2008, 02:25:17 PM
He did mention the 6th Symphony! (He is not planning to write more than 9 of them, BTW.)

Quote from: MDL on February 02, 2008, 03:52:12 AM
The performance of the Dies Irae is great

Quote from: Maciek on February 04, 2008, 10:48:07 AM
You mean "on its own" or are you comparing it to a specific different performance?

Quote from: Maciek on January 31, 2008, 02:25:17 PM
Hope you guys appreciate having a seer on board! ;D

Today in Warsaw a new, expanded version of the 8th Symphony was given its premiere performance. This new version is not the definitive one yet. The composer repeated in an interview that the final version will be about 70 minutes long. The current version is in 3 large movements - it has a new, slightly expanded and re-orchestrated finale + an additional new Eschenbach setting.

Other news (from the same interview): the composer is currently working on a Horn Concerto. He is also getting ready to write a 3rd String Quartet (I always considered Der unterbrochene Gedanke to be that but apparently I was wrong). He did mention the 6th Symphony! (He is not planning to write more than 9 of them, BTW.) The 6th is probably going to be a one-movement piece, an elegy for a dying forest. He is probably going to get it done once the concerto and quartet are finished. He is also thinking about two opera projects, both of them generally conceived quite a long time ago: Fedra and an opera for children.

Quote from: MDL on February 05, 2008, 01:22:27 AM
I've got two other recordings, conducted by Czyz and Kawalla. You're a real Penderecki enthusiast, so I assume you have both of those already! The Wit is better recorded than either. If it's not quite as intense as the Czyz, it's much better than the boxy, unatmospheric Kawalla.

Quote from: Maciek on June 25, 2008, 03:44:33 PM
But he clearly states that the language of the text influenced the work itself.

I guess he must mean the Hymn to St. Adalbert. I've never heard the piece, but given that St. Adalbert was Czech, it would seem logical...

Quote from: Dundonnell on September 26, 2008, 02:51:14 PM
I am sorry to be any sort of nuisance and I apologise if this has been covered before but it is late at night and I am tired :)

My head is spinning trying to get a handle on the Penderecki concertos :) I have just ordered a cd of the Clarinet and the Flute concertos.  But........are these the same work with a different solo instrument? And......how many other of his concertos are actually direct reworkings of other concertos?

If anyone has any help to offer in posting a short guide to the Penderecki concerto minefield, I would be most grateful! :)

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on September 26, 2008, 03:32:41 PM
I haven't heard a lot of his music yet but his late chamber works kick all sorts of arse, far superior to his early stuff.

Quote from: gomro on September 26, 2008, 05:49:55 PM
As much as I like the De Natura Sonoris twins and some of the other pieces, I much prefer late Penderecki to the earlier works.  He has stated that he feels the later pieces are "more important," and that he dropped much of his avantgardeisms (sheesh! That's not a word!) to write "music with a human face." It certainly has that.

Quote from: Dundonnell on September 26, 2008, 02:51:14 PM
I am sorry to be any sort of nuisance and I apologise if this has been covered before but it is late at night and I am tired :)

My head is spinning trying to get a handle on the Penderecki concertos :) I have just ordered a cd of the Clarinet and the Flute concertos.  But........are these the same work with a different solo instrument? And......how many other of his concertos are actually direct reworkings of other concertos?

If anyone has any help to offer in posting a short guide to the Penderecki concerto minefield, I would be most grateful! :)

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on September 26, 2008, 03:32:41 PM
I haven't heard a lot of his music yet but his late chamber works kick all sorts of arse, far superior to his early stuff.

Quote from: Spitvalve on September 26, 2008, 11:53:44 PM
If you're referring to the Sextet and the Clarinet Quartet, then I agree about their @ss-kicking qualities. He seems to have a real knack for chamber music, why doesn't he compose more of it?  ???

Quote from: edward on September 27, 2008, 05:05:53 AM
Agreed about those two. I'd add in the string trio, which has a bite and concision often missing from KP's oeuvre.

Quote from: Dundonnell on September 26, 2008, 06:17:41 PM
???

Are you saying that all that needs to be said about Penderecki the living composer has been said?

'cos it hasn't :) I need my questions answered :)

Quote from: edward on January 08, 2008, 06:45:49 PM
For me, both are rambling, intermittently beautiful, but too loosely-structured for my taste.

For people interested in this composer, Naxos is about to release the Eighth Symphony ('Lieder der Verganglichkeit') on a disc with the Dies Irae and Aus den Psalmen Davids. When I heard this symphony, I felt it was one of Penderecki's more convincing recent works, so I'll be looking forward to reacquainting myself with it.

Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on September 27, 2008, 11:47:03 AM
no, i hope not. But I think the Curse of the 9th might have an effect on him........

Quote from: jowcol on October 08, 2008, 05:29:36 AM
I'm curious what feelings people here may have about Penderecki's Actions, which is a semi-improvised work featuring a who's who of the european free Jazz scene in 1971. A review of the album is here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/release/f3n8/

Personally, it is one of my favorites of his more avante-garde period.  The fractured, explosive solo Terje Rypdal unleased on electric guitar was amazing, and the overblown horns in the beginning were way cool.  The only drawback was the bass walk which, compared to some of the stuff other bassist were doing at the time, seemed a bit dated and out of place.   Since I've long felt that some of the best 60s and early 70s avante-garde came from the jazz world, it was very enlightening to hear both forces join.

The Don Cherry on the flip side was a bit more uneven-- not quite on the level of some of his previous work, but still a worthy flip side-- back when albums had sides.

Quote from: Dundonnell on September 26, 2008, 02:51:14 PM
I am sorry to be any sort of nuisance and I apologise if this has been covered before but it is late at night and I am tired :)

My head is spinning trying to get a handle on the Penderecki concertos :) I have just ordered a cd of the Clarinet and the Flute concertos.  But........are these the same work with a different solo instrument? And......how many other of his concertos are actually direct reworkings of other concertos?

If anyone has any help to offer in posting a short guide to the Penderecki concerto minefield, I would be most grateful! :)

Quote...I myself am not a huge fan in general of his music, but he has contributed 6 large scale cello concertos of one form or another - 2 bona fide cello concertos, an authorized arrangement of the viola concerto, an early sonata for cello and orchestra which was later revised to produce the first concerto (but remains as a stand alone work), a concerto grosso for three cellos and orchestra (2001) and his latest piece called simply 'Largo' which Rostropovich played the last time he appeared in public as a cellist (as well of course as the ubiquitous Dvorak cello concerto).

This new Naxos release of the latter three works (two of which are premiere commercial recordings) is what has sparked my thought on his output. I find his ideas on composition and his 'liberation' from the infamous avant guardist to the post modern romanticist he is today quite interesting, and there are certainly more than a few decent works in his output. But a lot of it is rather dull Mahlerian noodling imho, and it doesn't quite do it for me. I wished the triple concerto (or rather the concerto grosso) were better, as that is a set of forces that particularly excites me, but it just isn't that good (at least from the recording I have already heard). The Largo is better I think (it's shorter!) but even here, despite some good music there seems to be a lot of padding. I look forward to the Naxos CD of these two works.

For me undoubtedly the best cello work is the Second cello concerto - an enormous piece that perfectly bridges the avant guard and post modern romantic periods in his creative output. You can even see it happening within the piece. As was so often the case, Rostropovich somehow inspired the composer to produce the absolute best that he was capable of - I need hardly mention that Shostakovich's concertos, Lutoslawski's, Dutilleux's, Britten's, Vainberg's, Tischenko's, Hoddinott's concertps etc. etc. are all amongst the best and most important pieces in their respective composer's output (each according to their own level of talent of course). The same is true here - The Second concerto is a hugely impressive and undoubtedly highly emotionally engaging score, whether one likes his style or not. Astonishingly, (though perhaps not anymore, as the astonishing stories are so numerous with regards to Rostropovich) he learned the whole score and findish solo part in only 2 weeks (the day he got it to the day of the premiere). The first concerto I also like, much tougher on the ear though but not really at the same level as the second concerto...

Here's the CD, which I have of course ordered. I will let you know if my opinins on the two late works change dramatically... I somehow doubt they will, but the artists here are all superb, so who knows. Ato Noras is a particular favourite of mine and is quite committed to Penderecki's movements music, having recorded the viola concerto and two cello concertos before. A truly superlative artist.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Penderecki-Works-Cellos-Orchestra-Krzystof/dp/B001F1YBUI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1223432360&sr=8-2

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on October 08, 2008, 07:18:08 AM
Holy crap they have a video of the Sextet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rddTU2zp5YI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJmdQ6CBfU0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eKTazKUPUg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBStMga1pGY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNdRtRhsSoQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bTVqfsAoF0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBUZWNDc5fI

The last part seems to be missing thought. This is awesome all the same. Anybody knows where this is from? I'd like to have the whole thing on my computer.

Quote from: Maciek on October 09, 2008, 12:08:02 PM
Still no one with definite information on Penderecki's clarinet and flute concerto "minefield"?

Quote from: Maciek on October 09, 2008, 12:08:02 PM
Still no one with definite information on Penderecki's clarinet and flute concerto "minefield"?

Quote from: Maciek on October 17, 2008, 04:47:41 PM
You've done some impressive research. I wish I could contribute, but my knowledge of Penderecki's concertos is limited. (Quite, quite limited, as I see now, pondering that lengthy list...) I wonder, though, how good can a concerto for a given instrument be, how idiomatic, if you're able to quickly rewrite it for something else? 0:)

(Just mean ol' me.)

Quote from: Mark G. Simon on October 17, 2008, 01:20:57 PM
Hey! A concerto for five clarinets! That's gotta be cool!

Quote from: Maciek on November 24, 2008, 07:35:02 AM
The Third Quartet premiered over here, in Warsaw on Friday - as part of the composer's birthday celebrations.

No, I did not go and did not listen to the radio broadcast (assuming there was one). Just wanted to notify those who follow Penderecki's catalog.

Quote from: MDL on March 16, 2009, 08:08:57 AM
Looks like Naxos are releasing a recording of Utrenja in April 2009, part of Wit's ongoing cycle. Bring on Kosmogonia and The Devils of Loudun!

Quote from: bhodges on March 16, 2009, 08:23:27 AM
Cool, what great news!  I still have the LP recording below, which I haven't heard in decades.  (And forgot until locating this cover scan that there's a Persichetti on there, too--which I don't think I've even listened to!)

--Bruce

Quote from: MDL on March 16, 2009, 08:53:55 AM
I wish they'd reissue that on CD, even if it is only the first half of Utrenja.

Quote from: MDL on March 16, 2009, 08:53:55 AM
I wish they'd reissue that on CD, even if it is only the first half of Utrenja. The LP I heard (borrowed from a libary) didn't include the Perischetti. Never heard of him (or her).

Quote from: Dundonnell on March 16, 2009, 09:42:15 AM
The LP has been reissued on cd- a Japanese imported cd I am afraid(all the text is in Japanese)-I got it via Arkiv.

For a lot more on Persichetti-

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,10630.0.html

Quote from: bhodges on March 16, 2009, 08:23:27 AM
Cool, what great news!  I still have the LP recording below, which I haven't heard in decades.  (And forgot until locating this cover scan that there's a Persichetti on there, too--which I don't think I've even listened to!)

--Bruce

Quote from: Cato on March 16, 2009, 10:08:06 AM
Is that the complete Utrenja?  I recall that cover art! 

I have the score to Part I, which shows how one can notate a riot!  There are also some very nice chant-like sections using quarter-tones.

Quote from: MDL on March 16, 2009, 03:47:02 PM
Dux Records (although they go for £20 a pop in HMV!)

Quote from: Maciek on March 18, 2009, 02:19:59 AM
Actually, the premiere was in December (http://www.opera.krakow.pl/otwarcie_en.php). I don't find the photos of the production particularly enticing (you can find them here (http://www.opera.krakow.pl/?id=188&sid=48) - and that's also the place to keep track of upcoming performances - unfortunately, it seems this weekend will be the end of it for the season).

Quote from: MDL on March 18, 2009, 02:43:09 AM
I would have loved to hear the full opera and see a stage production, no matter how pedestrian!

Quote from: Maciek on March 30, 2009, 11:33:48 AM
There are some (very short) remarks on the Mutter disc in the Mutter thread (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,7170.0.html).

Quote from: Maciek on January 08, 2009, 05:13:13 AM
Oh, and speaking of chances to hear Penderecki's St Luke Passion: it will be performed at Canterbury Cathedral on 2nd May, as part of the "Polish Season" in Britain, which starts this May and ends May 2010. I guess that will be the opening concert.

Quote from: bhodges on April 22, 2009, 12:42:08 PM
Concerto for Horn and Orchestra, Winterreise (2008, American premiere) - William Purvis, horn

Quote from: Maciek on April 22, 2009, 12:57:56 PM
*raises eyebrows*

Quote from: MDL on May 03, 2009, 02:06:45 AM
The sound worlds of the Passion and Utrenja are completely different; the Bach-like chorales and doomy Romantic string melodies which are so prominent in the former are completely absent from the latter.

Quote from: Spitvalve on May 03, 2009, 02:26:25 AM
I agree. I had the old Philips recording of Utrenja, and I could never make it through the piece from beginning to end because it was such a sonic assault.

Quote from: MDL on May 03, 2009, 02:06:45 AM
the eerie wooden clattering (what the hell is making that noise?) in the second movement of the Entombment

Quote from: Maciek on May 03, 2009, 04:26:53 AM
I believe the sound is made by a kołatka (or probably more than one of them). I'm not sure what the correct English word is. Maybe it's clapper?? In catholic liturgy (not sure about elsewhere) bells are not tolled and the organ is not played during the period between the Gloria at the Mass of the Lord's Supper (evening before Good Friday) and the Gloria of the Easter Vigil (evening of Holy Saturday). A kołatka (clapper?) is a wooden device that is used in place of bells in the period between those two Glorias. At least that's the tradition in Poland. So in that period during Transubstantiation clappers (if that's the word) are used instead of bells. The sound forms a very distinctive part of the aural experience of the Easter Triduum.

Quote from: edward on September 09, 2009, 02:31:11 PM
Yes, it was on the CD with the 3rd symphony.

Quote from: Maciek on March 30, 2009, 09:45:05 AM
For a multimedia version of Penderecki's Seven Gates of Jerusalem (a.k.a. Symphony no... 7?) go here (the Polish TV site) (http://www.tvp.pl/kultura/muzyka-powazna/siedem-bram-jerozolimy/wideo?sort_by=2&sort_desc=true&start_rec=0&listing_mod=&empty_websites=false). The film is in 5 parts, labeled "(cz. 1)", "(cz. 2)" etc. respectively. Click on the image or title of each video to start watching it. In Ubuntu this works best on Firefox with MediaPlayerConnectivity and a multimedia player of your choice (I've checked MPlayer, VLC, Totem xine and SMPlayer, Kaffeine seems to be having some trouble).

The conductor is Krzysztof Penderecki himself.

Quote from: toucan on August 06, 2011, 05:42:17 AMThe only other CD recording of Polymorphia that I know of is Herbert Von Karajan

Quote from: James on May 15, 2011, 11:48:45 AM
There are some searing performances in this admirable 2-disc collection of Penderecki's orchestral pieces of the 1960s and early 1970s. Anaklasis, Eminationem and the Thernody are definite high points; the rest is mostly dense and anguished, including the Symphony No. 1 - the highwater mark of Penderecki's own brand of modernism.

Quote from: James on May 15, 2011, 11:48:45 AM
Penderecki maintains that he is a symphonist first and foremost.

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 08, 2011, 06:21:26 PM
Bought a ton of Penderecki tonight:

Quote from: Velimir on August 08, 2011, 09:51:37 PMSome good discs there, like the above-mentioned symphonies, and the great St. Luke Passion. I don't see my favorite Naxos Penderecki disc, the one with the Sextet. Do you have it already?

Quote from: toucan on August 09, 2011, 03:24:33 AM
High time indeed; it'd been been dead for the whole of 24hrs  :D
Penderecki may be way past the possibility of revival, however, what with his  having been dead for nearly four decades.

Perhaps he might enjoy a belated epiphany and realize a born-again composer is worth more than a born-again Christian 8)

During his brief spell as a talented musician (the 1960's basically) Penderecki had an ability to draw new sounds out of old instruments that surpassed Xenakis.
It is also fascinating the intelligence with which he worked his intention through a quasi-abstract language, as clearly as simple sentences in the English language (or any other language that may be native to the listener)

Since he lost his talent he became a pompous ass, self-importantly imitating his card-board image of the great masters of the past, little aware he is providing only a satire of himself.

Quote from: DavidW on August 09, 2011, 08:47:05 AM
Cool purchases MI!  I love the 3rd symphony and the 4th!!!  I picked up the 8th from ebay this summer, but it's still in my to listen pile.  He is a great symphonist, I hope you enjoy his works.  btw the St Mark Passion, despite being one of his most famous works, I find to be hard listening.  The 2nd symphony is one of the easier works, it's a good place to get started.

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 09, 2011, 08:52:12 AM
Thanks, Dave. I'm anxious to hear Seven Gates of Jerusalem as I heard 15 minutes of it in a preview on Naxos Music Library. Do you mean St. Luke Passion? I'm also excited to hear his Polish Requiem which is a dark and turbulent work.

Quote from: toucan on August 09, 2011, 09:11:52 AM
Penderecki said lots of stupid things but he did not say his 1960's idiom was a dead end. He said he had drawn all that he could out of it. The truth is, his talent (in its original, creative phase) died out in the early seventies. Since then he has tried to keep up appearences through bad, ill-constructed, pompous and vulgar imitations of pre-modern masters.  Nor is the popularity of his later work much of an argument on his behalf as value in the Fine Arts (unlike Junk Food, Wal-mart items and democratic politics) is determined by an elite of people of taste, not by a general public that does not always distinguish clearly between Classical Music, easy listening - and Star Wars.

Quote from: toucan on August 09, 2011, 09:48:46 AM
and also the masters of recent times - like Lutoslawski and Dutilleux and Messiaen and Boulez. Penderecki, Shostakovich and Arvo Part simply do not compare, no more than artificial diamonds compare with earth-generated diamonds.

Quote from: DieNacht on August 09, 2011, 11:46:28 AM
. . . But the "Te Deum" (1980) is a major and very impressive piece, a favourite, which I wouldn´t be without.

Quote from: toucan on August 09, 2011, 12:21:40 PMTo apply the word "tradition" to composers like Shostakovich, later Penderecki and Arvo Part implies a corruption and a subversion of the meaning of the word "tradition."

Quote from: Dungeon Master on April 03, 2007, 07:40:26 PM
The GMG Golden Rule
Please treat other members of this forum with courtesy and respect. By all means, discuss and argue the topic at hand, but do not make personal attacks, belittle, make fun of, or insult another member.

Quote from: ChamberNut on August 09, 2011, 04:00:15 PM
Just added 15 Penderecki discs to my 'wish list'.   ;D :D

I think it is almost time for Naxos to issue a box set.  Oh well, at $7.99 CDN a disc, how can one complain?

Quote from: DavidW on August 17, 2011, 02:45:56 PM
I think I missed this before... that's too bad MI I really like the 3rd symphony... but I understand what you're saying about it being both dissonant and dark.  That's why also I don't think that neoromantic is the appropriate word to describe Penderecki's tonal works.  They are not romantic.  I call them neotonal because the neo- reminds us that it is a new kind of tonal after the time of atonal music, and tonal instead of romantic or classical because while the music has the more traditional tonal center it doesn't share much with pre-20th century music.

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 17, 2011, 06:43:55 PM
I'm hoping to sink my teeth into more of the Penderecki recordings I bought, but right now my mind is preoccupied with Messiaen, Britten, Bartok, and Hindemith.

Quote from: DavidW on August 18, 2011, 04:59:31 AM
I look forward to more of your impressions... post here please.  I miss many posts on the listening thread because it goes too fast.

Quote from: jhns on September 26, 2011, 10:27:29 PM
Penderecki does the same or similar thing with different settings. All of his music is quite dark and gloomy. Some of his symphonies have real refinement and emotion, but his concertos are the opposite, just noise. When there is a reason to all the ugliness like in the Hiroshima piece it makes sense, but if there is no reason, then why keep on doing it? Can't he compose something spiritual and emotional for a change? Why all the darkness and ugliness? Didn't Shostakovich do that way better anyway? Penderecki is one-sided, you always know what to expect with a piece of his, it will always be dark. Baczewicz was dark too but not always. She was way better composer than Penderecki in my opinion.

Quote from: jhns on September 26, 2011, 10:27:29 PM
Can't he compose something spiritual and emotional for a change?

Quote from: lescamil on September 27, 2011, 05:41:41 AM
Sounds like you haven't heard anything that Penderecki has composed after 1976.

Quote from: Dundonnell on September 27, 2011, 07:17:29 AM
Three years ago on this Forum I wrote (in a thread called "The Magic of the Poles"- http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,7936.msg208165.html#msg208165)

"I meant the British professional music critics whose reviews of Penderecki's music adorn the pages of the journals that I read. For reasons which are not clear to me the editors of these British journals continually ask hostile critics to review new releases of Penderecki's music. Professor Arnold Whittall of King's College, London, for example, seems to be the person the 'Gramophone' magazine always turns to if there is a new Penderecki disc out. Then we get the same old refrain-"Penderecki has written nothing of value since 1980". "

Nothing has changed in three years. Whittall still reviews the new Penderecki cds...with the same results.

Quote from: Dundonnell on October 03, 2011, 10:14:41 AM
I am an unrepentant admirer of the music Penderecki has written since 1980 ;D

Quote from: ChamberNut on October 03, 2011, 11:34:05 AM
You should change your user name to 'The Unrepentant Pendereckian'   ;D

Quote from: jhns on September 28, 2011, 02:49:33 AM
I will revisit his symphony with vocals, the seventh. I like atonal vocal music but I usually don't like it just instrumental.

Quote from: Dundonnell on October 03, 2011, 11:42:18 AM
Oh, I don't think so. I don't like his music that much. ;D

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 20, 2011, 06:15:51 AM
Go, Ray!

Quote from: ChamberNut on October 20, 2011, 06:14:12 AM
Yup, call me a fan of Penderecki's sound world.  Officially!  :)

I've listened to these three so far, the first disc of music I had already heard previously.  Loved all that I have heard so far!

[asin]B00004D3II[/asin]

[asin]B001U1L9UI[/asin]

[asin]B000U7V9EY[/asin]

Quote from: jowcol on October 20, 2011, 07:18:56 AM
Utrenja was a fave a mine in High School--although I loved it, I also had fun playing it at the latter stages of a party where some very drunken Led Zepplin fans would scream for more Zepplin.  It usually got them sobered up and out the door quick.  I also think that Utrenja was responsible for someone quitting the restaurant I worked at. (This is back in the late 70s.)  I had started at this place, got on the wrong side of one of teh managers, and was just given cleanup duty, but they let me play my portable cassette player.  So I was scrubbing out the interior of a walk in refrigerator, and was booming Utrenja as loud as I could, since no one could hear me through the door, and it did give a nice "tomb" like ambiance.
OUt on the floor, some poor sap was having his first night waiting tables, and was getting really worked up and overwhelmed,  The management decided to take away his tables, and use him as a gofer the rest of the night, so that he might get better accustomed.  After sending him back for silverware, glasses, etc, he was sent back to get more Tatar sauce, which let him to the walk-in refrigerator.  I was cleaning away, minding my business, when I turned around and saw him staring at me working his jaw, a tray of tartar sauce in his hands, and stammering out a question about the music.
"You like that? " I answered.  "It's the Entombment of Christ. It's trying to capture the horror of man killing God."
At that, he dropped the tray, and ran out the back door.  He never came back to collect the pay for the 2-3 hours that he worked.

Quote from: John of Clydebank on October 20, 2011, 07:33:06 AM
Yes.  His music is as scary as hell.  Weird and wonderful.  Incisive in a shocking way.  In the late 70's, I would have run away too.  in fact...
****runs away screaming****

Quote from: jowcol on October 20, 2011, 07:18:56 AM
Utrenja was a fave a mine in High School--although I loved it, I also had fun playing it at the latter stages of a party where some very drunken Led Zepplin fans would scream for more Zepplin.  It usually got them sobered up and out the door quick.  I also think that Utrenja was responsible for someone quitting the restaurant I worked at. (This is back in the late 70s.)  I had started at this place, got on the wrong side of one of teh managers, and was just given cleanup duty, but they let me play my portable cassette player.  So I was scrubbing out the interior of a walk in refrigerator, and was booming Utrenja as loud as I could, since no one could hear me through the door, and it did give a nice "tomb" like ambiance.

OUt on the floor, some poor sap was having his first night waiting tables, and was getting really worked up and overwhelmed,  The management decided to take away his tables, and use him as a gofer the rest of the night, so that he might get better accustomed.  After sending him back for silverware, glasses, etc, he was sent back to get more Tatar sauce, which let him to the walk-in refrigerator.  I was cleaning away, minding my business, when I turned around and saw him staring at me working his jaw, a tray of tartar sauce in his hands, and stammering out a question about the music.

"You like that? " I answered.  "It's the Entombment of Christ. It's trying to capture the horror of man killing God."

At that, he dropped the tray, and ran out the back door.  He never came back to collect the pay for the 2-3 hours that he worked.

Quote from: snyprrr on October 25, 2011, 05:43:18 AM
Symphony 3

QuoteSt. Luke Passion (used to have Argo)

Quote from: snyprrr on October 25, 2011, 05:43:18 AM
All I currently have is the EMI 2cd set with the Symphonies 1-2.

Quote from: petrarch on October 25, 2011, 06:44:02 AM
Which EMI 2CD set, the one with Symphony 1 or the one with Symphony 2? I don't think there is one with both.

Quote from: snyprrr on October 25, 2011, 08:23:05 PM
Penderecki's disjointed discography gives me the CDCDCD jitters!! ??? :-[ :-\ :-* ;D

Quote from: toucan on October 25, 2011, 07:23:48 AM
This recent Polskie Nagrania release includes Fluorescences and Polymorphia

(http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m465/Phil1_05/PendereckiFluorescences.jpg)

Quote from: toucan on October 25, 2011, 07:23:48 AM
This recent Polskie Nagrania release includes Fluorescences and Polymorphia

(http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m465/Phil1_05/PendereckiFluorescences.jpg)

Quote from: toucan on November 02, 2011, 06:39:12 PM
I think that's right. Penderecki had an ability to draw new sounds out of old instruments that equalled Xenakis, but made a freer, more spontaneous use of these sounds. What more. Penderecki's sounds (1960's sound that is) are earthy, nourishing even.

Quote from: snyprrr on November 04, 2011, 08:38:28 PM
I finally heard the 'Christmas' Symphony No.2, and, I must say, this is the Pettersson Symphony I wish he had written. But nevermind, I think this Music is perfect as it is.

Quote from: toucan on October 25, 2011, 07:23:48 AM
This recent Polskie Nagrania release includes Fluorescences and Polymorphia

(http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m465/Phil1_05/PendereckiFluorescences.jpg)

Quote from: toucan on November 02, 2011, 02:58:57 PM
Yes it's a bit slow. Perhaps the slowness is a reason for the clarity - he doesn't let us miss a note.

Quote from: snyprrr on November 05, 2011, 08:40:37 PM
When you say slow?,... I thought that KP on EMI would be definitive , at 9.54. So, I thought you meant slower than that. But now I see that Markowski is 5:50 :o!! Both sound great, but how 'slow' is that other one?

Quote from: James on November 06, 2011, 03:36:17 AM
If Penderecki's own recording proves hard to track down then this more recent one will prove a good alternative, not least because it uses very similar forces and Antoni Wit's interpretation is close in spirit to that of the composer, even though the acoustic is far less resonant. The one drawback is the absense [sic] of the text.

Quote from: toucan on November 06, 2011, 05:57:13 AM
Complete with text in four languages; narration is in Latin but not sure the narrator is a native speaker, though:

(http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m465/Phil1_05/Penderecki001.jpg)(http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m465/Phil1_05/Penderecki002.jpg)

:P

Quote from: toucan on November 06, 2011, 05:57:13 AM
Complete with text in four languages; narration is in Latin but not sure the narrator is a native speaker, though:

(http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m465/Phil1_05/Penderecki001.jpg)(http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m465/Phil1_05/Penderecki002.jpg)

:P

Quote from: toucan on November 21, 2011, 08:17:20 PM
You can probably find answers there:

(http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m465/Phil1_05/PendereckiChoir002.jpg)(http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m465/Phil1_05/PendereckiChoir001.jpg)(http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m465/Phil1_05/PendereckiChoir003.jpg)

Quote from: lescamil on November 22, 2011, 11:32:17 AM
The Devils of Loudun is a great opera, but it could really, really use another recording. There are some things that just seem rough around the edges in that old Markowski recording that I am sure a great modern Pendereckian conductor like Antoni Wit could bring out, particularly the more sparsely orchestrated arias. I also have the DVD of it, which is the exact same performance as the one on CD, I believe. It isn't a great production, but it at least puts some visuals to the work.

Quote from: snyprrr on November 22, 2011, 06:37:48 AM
I've had the solo choral music before, but prefer to have the full orchestra. I'm left with:

St. Luke's Passion: I used to have the Argo disc, and I'm not sure why I sold it.

Dies Irae: I'll see if this is on YouTube.

Utrenya: This is probably the one to go for, no? Ormandy was lost on Ebay last week, so, PolskieNag?

Polish Requiem: I'm probably least interested in this one, though I did like the Lacrimosa on the EMI.

Quote from: MDL on November 24, 2011, 08:26:19 AM
The Naxos/Wit recordings of The St Luke Passion and the Dies Irae are both excellent. Ormandy's Utrenja is very good, but as I've pointed out elsewhere, it's only the first half, The Entombment of Christ. If you want both parts, Naxos/Wit will do, although in many ways, I prefer the old PolskieNag. The Polish Requiem has its moments (the Lacrimosa and some nice clusters in the Lux Aeterna), but most of it is a lumbering bore.

Quote from: lescamil on November 24, 2011, 05:09:42 PM
Regarding Utrenja, I like both the new Wit recording and the old Polskie Nagrania recording. I like the Wit for clarity, but I like the PN for more of a visceral, gritty experience. In my opinion, you need both to really take it in. The Ormandy is great, yes. Shame he didn't do more Penderecki.

Quote from: toucan on November 25, 2011, 04:43:52 AM
No.

Quote from: MDL on November 24, 2011, 08:26:19 AM
The Naxos/Wit recordings of The St Luke Passion and the Dies Irae are both excellent. Ormandy's Utrenja is very good, but as I've pointed out elsewhere, it's only the first half, The Entombment of Christ. If you want both parts, Naxos/Wit will do, although in many ways, I prefer the old PolskieNag. The Polish Requiem has its moments (the Lacrimosa and some nice clusters in the Lux Aeterna), but most of it is a lumbering bore.

Quote from: snyprrr on November 26, 2011, 10:07:13 PM
I have really taken to the Magnificat. There is a certain integration there that I'm missing in Utreja, as if this was KP's 'follow up album', and he made it a little more 'listener friendly' (I mean, in the good way! ;)). Out of all the other Big pieces, I think this is the one that has satisfied my certain need for a certain type of sound from KP.

All these Big Choral Works can get a bit much all in one season of listening! ??? :-X :-\ Oy!!

Quote from: James on March 19, 2012, 02:37:18 PM
Nonesuch Records releases an album of works by Polish composer Krzysztof Penderecki and composer/Radiohead guitarist Jonny Greenwood. The artists' work was presented side-by-side in two concerts in September 2011, highlighting Penderecki's influence on younger composers, at the European Congress of Culture in Wroc aw. In its report on the Congress, which celebrated Poland's presidency of the European Union, London's Independent called Penderecki "Poland's godfather of the musical avant-garde" and Greenwood "the doyen of English art-pop," describing their concert as "rapturously received." The composers went to Kraków's Alvernia Studios immediately after the performances to oversee the recording of the same music, along with one other piece by Greenwood.

The Wroc aw concert included two works by Penderecki dating from the early 1960s: "Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima" and "Polymorphia (for 48 strings)," the latter of which inspired the Greenwood piece on the program, "48 Responses to Polymorphia;" all three are on the Nonesuch record. An additional piece by Greenwood, "Popcorn Superhet Receiver," which was inspired by Penderecki's "Threnody," also was recorded for the album. (Greenwood incorporated material from "Popcorn Superhet Receiver" in his award-winning score for the 2008 film There Will Be Blood, which was also released on Nonesuch.)

[asin]B00722ZH5W[/asin]

Quote from: Cato on March 19, 2012, 02:50:02 PM
SO... will the Symphony #6 ever be finished? 

Or will the present version be it?

Quote from: CRCulver on March 20, 2012, 12:26:03 AM
I subscribe to Radiohead updates on Facebook. I checked the comments under the various Penderecki announcements to check for "This isn't music, this is noise!" and "Who the fuck is Penderecki?" I wasn't disappointed.

Quote from: snyprrr on July 31, 2012, 08:18:06 PM
alarm clock (strawberry?, I wonder...)

Quote from: James on July 31, 2012, 02:27:15 PMThis is their 2nd box .. symphonies & other orchestral works ..

[asin]B008DWG0CY[/asin]

Quote from: MDL on November 24, 2012, 07:11:35 AM
and I haven't fully got my head around Strophen yet,

Quote from: snyprrr on November 26, 2012, 06:14:05 AM
Markowski recording is pretty clangorous  and can distort.

Quote from: MDL on January 18, 2013, 05:30:29 AM
A new production of The Devils of Loudun, in the composer's latest revision, is being performed in Copenhagen, Warsaw and at the Edinburgh Festival!

http://kglteater.dk/whats-on/performances/season-2012-2013/opera/djaevlene-fra-loudun (http://kglteater.dk/whats-on/performances/season-2012-2013/opera/djaevlene-fra-loudun)

http://www.lionelfriend.com/images/thoughts_may2012.pdf (http://www.lionelfriend.com/images/thoughts_may2012.pdf)


Stage: Operaen Store Scene
Title: The Devils of Loudun
Artform: Opera
Performance period: 12. Feb. - 26. Mar. 2013
Duration: Approx. 1 hour 50 minutes. No interval.
Price: 895kr - 125kr
Dates: 12/02, 14/02, 27/02, 05/03, 12/03, 19/03, 24/03, 26/03

Quote from: edward on January 31, 2013, 05:07:47 PM
I see the February Naxos listing has a new Wit/Penderecki disc out, with the flute and piano concertos. I wasn't greatly impressed by the other Naxos recording of the flute concerto but maybe this will be a better option. I was more impressed by the one hearing I had of the piano concerto and may enjoy reacquainting myself with it.

http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.572696

Quote from: Velimir on April 25, 2013, 01:47:45 PM
Here's a rave review of a new issue with all 3 of KP's string quartets, plus the one by Lutoslawski. Anyone heard this yet?

http://audaud.com/2013/04/penderecki-string-quartet-no-1-string-quartet-no-2-string-quartet-no-3-leaves-of-an-unwritten-diary-lutoslawski-string-quartet-royal-string-q-hyperion/

Quote from: Velimir on April 25, 2013, 01:47:45 PM
Here's a rave review of a new issue with all 3 of KP's string quartets, plus the one by Lutoslawski. Anyone heard this yet?

http://audaud.com/2013/04/penderecki-string-quartet-no-1-string-quartet-no-2-string-quartet-no-3-leaves-of-an-unwritten-diary-lutoslawski-string-quartet-royal-string-q-hyperion/

Quote from: edward on April 25, 2013, 05:04:28 PM
Not heard this one; for my complete Penderecki string quartets I've been very happy with the DAFO Quartet on Dux, who couple the three quartets with the string trio, clarinet quartet and Der unterbrochene Gedanke. I might not be quite as ecstatic as the reviewer quoted about the merits of the 3rd quartet, but I do think it's one of his strongest recent works.

[asin]B004UBB3N8[/asin]

The new Hyperion issue does look intriguing, though: I very much liked the Royal's complete Gorecki quartets & felt they were a distinct improvement on the Kronos performances.

Quote from: Velimir on April 25, 2013, 01:47:45 PM
Here's a rave review of a new issue with all 3 of KP's string quartets, plus the one by Lutoslawski. Anyone heard this yet?

http://audaud.com/2013/04/penderecki-string-quartet-no-1-string-quartet-no-2-string-quartet-no-3-leaves-of-an-unwritten-diary-lutoslawski-string-quartet-royal-string-q-hyperion/

Quote from: edward on April 25, 2013, 05:04:28 PM
Not heard this one; for my complete Penderecki string quartets I've been very happy with the DAFO Quartet on Dux,

Quote from: BrianSA on April 27, 2013, 07:40:23 AM
Found via random google, dated Jan 30, presumably but not verifiably 2013:

"I understand that Penderecki's Sixth Symphony is to be premiered this
weekend in München with James Levine as conductor. Would like to hear
any feedback from anyone who's able to attend."

Can anybody verify or otherwise elaborate on this?

I suppose that when/if the Master ever does get around to finishing it, we can more or less assume that Naxos will be there in the sidelines, ready, willing and able to record it?

Brian

Quote from: Velimir on April 13, 2007, 01:05:58 AM
I love The Dream of Jacob! It's a gem. It reminds me of Ligeti's orchestral pieces from the 1960s, but with an added narrative element.

Quote from: kyjo on August 22, 2013, 06:17:17 PM
Why, specifically, didn't you like Penderecki's music, John? :)

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 22, 2013, 06:27:17 PM
After his more avant-garde works, I found his turn to tonality to be a step backwards instead of forwards. Also, I don't think he's particularly that interesting of a composer. I had an interest in his music and I hoped that I would gain something positive from the music, but I never did. All of his symphonies, to my simpleton ears, sound the same and employ the same gimmicks and compositional tricks over and over again. I felt his choral works, an area he's highly praised in by critics and listeners alike, lacked warmth and never seemed to rise to the occasion. Penderecki isn't a composer like Schnittke who embraced all of music and continued to grow with it organically and still retain elements of his own style. I also find that there aren't enough contrasts in his music to warrant a deeper listening on my end. There's just not enough 'meat' in his music, so over time I just lost any kind of interest I had in his music and when I do this someone else greatly benefits. :)

Quote from: kyjo on August 22, 2013, 06:34:53 PM
Fair enough. :) No, I cannot say Penderecki is one of my very favorite composers, but I enjoy what he has been doing recently in his return to tonality. His early works are fascinating, but I can't say I really enjoy them.

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 22, 2013, 06:01:12 PM
Haha! You're welcome, Ray! :)

Quote from: snyprrr on August 22, 2013, 07:06:27 PM
Uh, hellllloooooo!!!!!!! Starving artist here!!!!

Quote from: ChamberNut on August 22, 2013, 05:57:36 PM
Some fantastic news for the ChamberNut Penderecki collection.  It is about to increase substantially!!  :)

That is because a very generous gift by John (Mirror Image) is coming my way.  He needs to make room in his library, and all Penderecki must go!   ;D

In all seriousness, thank you so much John!  :)  I am very much looking forward to the arrival of your gift to me.  I very much appreciate it!

Quote from: Velimir on September 15, 2013, 02:11:21 PM
For a guy who calls himself "ChamberNut," I am very surprised you don't have the disc with the Sextet et al. It's some of his best recent music.

Quote from: Velimir on September 15, 2013, 02:11:21 PM
For a guy who calls himself "ChamberNut," I am very surprised you don't have the disc with the Sextet et al. It's some of the best recent music.

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on September 15, 2013, 05:38:16 PM
FTFY.

Pertinent to the thread, I've got the Naxos CD of the piano and flute concertos waiting to be heard (arrived on Friday).  Do any of you have that one, and if so, any comments?

Quote from: kyjo on September 15, 2013, 06:16:41 PM
I know you didn't ask me, Jeffrey, but it's a fine disc! The PC is undoubtedly the main attraction; a dramatic, powerful work full of driving intensity. I was less impressed with the Flute Concerto, as it struck me as a bit emotionally detached. Or maybe it's just because I'm not awfully fond of the flute as a solo instrument. :)

Quote from: kyjo on September 15, 2013, 06:16:41 PM
I know you didn't ask me, Jeffrey, but it's a fine disc! The PC is undoubtedly the main attraction; a dramatic, powerful work full of driving intensity. I was less impressed with the Flute Concerto, as it struck me as a bit emotionally detached. Or maybe it's just because I'm not awfully fond of the flute as a solo instrument. :)

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 15, 2013, 06:21:51 PM
Aho's Flute Concerto may be one of the best concerti written for flute I've heard in quite some time.

Quote from: kyjo on September 15, 2013, 06:36:26 PM
I agree! Nielsen, Ibert, Rautavaara, Rorem, Rodrigo, Rouse, Sallinen, Holmboe and Weinberg have also written some very nice flute concertos. :)

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 15, 2013, 06:45:12 PM
Yeah, but none of these concerti captured my imagination quite like Aho's. I can't stand Rouse's music. The Ibert is quite good. Never cared much for Nielsen's concerti. Like the Rorem and Holmboe. Don't care much for Weinberg. Rodrigo is a pleasant enough composer, but I think he wrote better for piano, violin, and guitar. Sallinen's music doesn't do much for me. I do like Rautavaara's.

Quote from: kyjo on September 15, 2013, 07:05:11 PM
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, John! Interesting to hear your opinion of Rouse. He's far from one of my favorite composers, but his Flute Concerto is definitely his best work IMO. It boasts a heartbreakingly beautiful and emotionally intense slow movement. Nothing in Rouse's oeuvre comes close to the impact and power of this movement IMO. Have you heard it, John?

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 15, 2013, 07:08:16 PM
I have heard it, but remain skeptical about it. I'll have to revisit it at some point. Right now, I can't, I'm listening to RVW's A London Symphony (Handley performance). :D

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on September 20, 2013, 07:51:31 AM
Spent a few hours last night on Spotify listening to various Penderecki pieces (symphonies, concerto, Requiem...) almost all for the first time, and I could easily sense the beginning of a new obsession  ;D, to be continued...

Quote from: ChamberNut on October 03, 2013, 04:17:01 PM
Just finished my first listen to the St. Luke Passion.

Immediately one of my favourite Penderecki works!  Wow, magnificent!!

Courtesy of MI (John).  Hat tip!  :)

Quote from: Cato on October 03, 2013, 04:43:18 PM
Now you can graduate to Utrenja!

[asin]B001U1L9UI[/asin]

Quote from: karlhenning on October 04, 2013, 08:56:07 AM
As a result of Ray's post here (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21492.msg746666.html#msg746666), I've sampled the St Luke's Passion, and like what I hear.

Quote from: karlhenning on October 04, 2013, 08:56:07 AM
As a result of Ray's post here (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21492.msg746666.html#msg746666), I've sampled the St Luke's Passion, and like what I hear.

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 05, 2013, 03:51:41 PM
WARNING: Do not listen to Polymorphia with the lights off...wait, DO listen to Polymorphia with the lights off to get the best effect. Oh, and wear headphones.  >:D  ;D

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on September 20, 2013, 07:51:31 AM
Spent a few hours last night on Spotify listening to various Penderecki pieces (symphonies, concerto, Requiem...) almost all for the first time, and I could easily sense the beginning of a new obsession  ;D, to be continued...

Quote from: DavidW on March 10, 2014, 06:49:44 PM
Back last fall I picked up the symphony box... well this naxos sale on arkiv I picked up a bunch of concerto cds.  I'm excited to give them a listen!

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 10, 2014, 06:55:20 PM
Right now, all I own are the Dux recordings which all sound quite good to my ears and have the composer himself conducting on most of them. I can't say I'm completely blown away by the symphonies as they seem to have a sameness to them as does the larger choral works. His sound-world is stark and not as colorful as I like but certainly there's a lot more to him than this acerbic style of his? I keep reading over and over he's one of Poland's most important composers and while I don't doubt his importance, his music has remained, for me, a jagged pill that's hard to swallow.

Quote from: DavidW on March 10, 2014, 07:04:27 PM
He builds on the same motif in most of his symphonies.  It never bothered me because of the tone and way that it's orchestrated is transformed each time.  But if it bothers you try his chamber music instead.

Quote from: DavidW on March 10, 2014, 07:26:20 PM
The motif I talked about I first heard and is usually attributed to the third symphony.  I've heard it in all but the first two symphonies.  It appears twice in the seventh.  Listen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqL6i7VXDWQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqL6i7VXDWQ)

He also incorporates Jewish motifs and the famous B-A-C-H motif which you can listen to here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leTVRE_-8Z0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leTVRE_-8Z0)

That superficially gives a sameness to alot of his orchestral music, but it is in the harmony and color that make each orchestral work of his stand out as unique.

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 10, 2014, 07:12:44 PM
I doubt the chamber music would change my opinion considering that his orchestral/choral music takes up so much of his oeuvre.

Quote from: Velimir on March 10, 2014, 08:13:14 PM
IMHO, he's mistaken his own talent a bit. He is better in smaller forms than large ones, yet unfortunately he insists on writing bombastic orchestral/choral extravaganzas. I do think his chamber music, and what I've heard of his a cappella choral music, is much better.

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 10, 2014, 07:52:20 PM
Maybe I should just stick with Szymanowski, Lutoslawski, and Bacewicz. :)

Quote from: Ken B on March 10, 2014, 08:24:39 PM
Try Gruppen by Stockhausen.  I can supply videos and instruction manuals proving it is the most original and successful piece of music ever composed. In fact, if you follow the videos and diagrams closely you won't even need to listen to Gruppen to appreciate it.  $:)

Quote from: Velimir on March 10, 2014, 08:13:14 PM
IMHO, he's mistaken his own talent a bit. He is better in smaller forms than large ones, yet unfortunately he insists on writing bombastic orchestral/choral extravaganzas. I do think his chamber music, and what I've heard of his a cappella choral music, is much better.

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 10, 2014, 08:26:33 PM
I heard Gruppen once...well not the whole thing. I almost busted out laughing and I do remember thinking "This is the composer James totes around as if he's some kind of god?" :laugh:

Quote from: Ken B on March 10, 2014, 08:29:50 PM
God can only aspire to Gruppen. That's explained in video 3, starting at the 87 minute mark.

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 10, 2014, 07:12:44 PM
what I've heard of his later works just sound like they were cut from the same cloth and there seems to be a lack of variety in the music

Quote from: Daverz on March 10, 2014, 09:04:04 PM
I had the same feeling about the Symphonies, though they seem well constructed.  But I really enjoyed the Piano Concerto.  He seemed to let his hair down a bit there.

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 10, 2014, 09:54:18 PM
The only thing I remember about it was it was a bit long given the musical material.

Quote from: DavidW on March 11, 2014, 04:10:53 AM
I don't think a Pettersson fan gets to complain about that! :P

Again, try his chamber music. 8)

Quote from: DavidW on March 11, 2014, 04:10:53 AM
I don't think a Pettersson fan gets to complain about that! :P

Again, try his chamber music. 8)

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2014, 06:04:32 AM
Correction: I'm not a Pettersson fan. :)

Quote from: Ken B on March 11, 2014, 07:29:23 AM
Correction: "Correction: I'm not a Pettersson fan this week. :)"

8)

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2014, 07:35:45 AM
Don't get me started on Pettersson. If there's a ever a musical stick in the mud, it's him. :)

Quote from: DavidW on March 11, 2014, 08:38:52 AM
I listened to Penderecki's Dies Irae this morning and it just blew me away!  Anyone else fans of that work?

Quote from: DavidW on March 11, 2014, 08:38:52 AM
I listened to Penderecki's Dies Irae this morning and it just blew me away!  Anyone else fans of that work?

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2014, 08:41:08 PM
If I continue to frequent this forum, I could turn into a Pendereckian. Oh dear...I suppose there are worse things in life.

Quote from: Ken B on March 11, 2014, 08:45:04 PM
Bergian.

:laugh: :laugh:

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2014, 08:59:19 PM
What do you think about Penderecki, Ken?

Quote from: Ken B on March 11, 2014, 09:24:53 PM
I like quite a lot but agree he is better small and controlled. I like the sextet a lot. The concertos are generally good.  When I try though I don't have strong memories like I do with some composers, like Shosty, or to mention some you should look into, Beethoven, Schubert, or Dvorak. I suspect he is not a Brahms but a Raff, a figure of his time but not beyond it.

There are not many pieces of the past 50 years I am confident will be in the repertoire in another 50. Most music doesn't make it. I don't follow modern symphonism closely, but I can only think of two I'd put money on, and even then I might want odds.  ;)

Quote from: Velimir on March 10, 2014, 08:13:14 PM
IMHO, he's mistaken his own talent a bit. He is better in smaller forms than large ones, yet unfortunately he insists on writing bombastic orchestral/choral extravaganzas. I do think his chamber music, and what I've heard of his a cappella choral music, is much better.

Quote from: edward on March 12, 2014, 08:31:52 AM
Similarly, I'd regard the 3rd and 8th as the most successful of the symphonies, probably because their multi-movement design forces tauter structure.

Quote from: edward on March 12, 2014, 08:31:52 AM
Totally agreed. The string trio, third quartet, clarinet quartet and sextet all hang together a lot better than the orchestral works (though I think the second violin sonata suffers from the same flabby structures that compromise his orchestral work). Similarly, I'd regard the 3rd and 8th as the most successful of the symphonies, probably because their multi-movement design forces tauter structure.

Quote from: Velimir on March 11, 2014, 08:05:41 PM
Not yet, but you reminded me that I have the piece and haven't listened to it, on a Naxos CD with the rather nice so-called 8th Symphony. I'll try to listen to it soon.

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2014, 08:40:05 PM
Isn't this from his Polish Requiem?

Quote from: DavidW on March 13, 2014, 06:03:08 PM
Since you shared the youtube link I can tell you by listening that they are two different works.

Quote from: Ken B on March 13, 2014, 06:17:00 PM
I assume you mean the Auschwitz Dies Irae, a memorial piece.

Quote from: snyprrr on April 14, 2014, 07:20:43 AM
Symphony No.3

I think this is one of the very best of KP's transitional pieces.

Quote from: Velimir on April 15, 2014, 11:07:42 AM
I agree with you, even though the work seems to be cobbled together haphazardly. The nocturnal adagio and sizzling scherzo-finale are the highlights.

Quote from: snyprrr on April 15, 2014, 04:36:08 PM
ok

Penderecki 3 vs. Schnittke 3

Who wins?

Quote from: DavidW on April 15, 2014, 05:09:22 PM
Penderecki, but he loses to Lutoslawski 3. 8)

Quote from: snyprrr on April 15, 2014, 04:36:08 PM
ok

Penderecki 3 vs. Schnittke 3

Who wins?

Quote from: Greg on April 17, 2014, 10:10:00 AM
As much as I like Penderecki, Schnittke wins this one.

Quote from: snyprrr on April 17, 2014, 10:08:40 AM
I need to get to the bottom of this. I'd like to get the Orfeo, which has the two pieces I want, but, at this point, with so many options, I really just want to know what you all think here, especially if you actually have some of the rarer recordings, oy!

Cello Concerto No.2

Zhislin(?)/ Naxos
Rostropovich/ Erato
Noras/ Finlandia-Apex
Monighetti/ Polski Nigr.
Pergamenschow/ Orfeo


Violin Concerto No.1

Stern/ SONY
XXX/ Naxos (Kulka)
Edinger/ Thorofon
Edinger/ Orfeo
XXX/ Channel Classics
XXX/ Polski Nigr.
XXX/ ???

The Channel Classics has a great review which says it's in another class than the rest (so is the price!). I guess- I just don't know who the sound varies here. Stern's expensive again.

Also, a reviewer thought the Naxos CC2 was in a class with the Slava. So, what do you think? (and, we all know this is dreary going, so, I'm not commenting on the music!!) ha

Quote from: snyprrr on April 18, 2014, 11:46:53 AM
Pleeease?! 0:)

My finger is on the button and a need confirmation- does the Orfeo have shitty Orfeo sound or good Orfeo sound (cause they can be bad)? Or... mm...

Quote from: relm1 on July 01, 2014, 06:59:41 PM
This is my annual, "Has anyone heard of any updates regarding Penderecki's missing Symphony No. 6?" post.

Quote from: Greg on July 01, 2014, 07:14:49 PM
That's like his middle finger towards everyone interested in collecting his symphonies. 1-8? Got them. Missing 6? Well, you'll always be missing 6. Always. He'll never write it.  >:D

Quote from: Velimir on July 01, 2014, 07:22:03 PM
Maybe he's leaving it to be discovered posthumously, or something.

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on July 01, 2014, 07:33:10 PM
Schubert had the Unfinished.  Penderecki has the Uncomposed.

Quote from: MDL on January 18, 2013, 05:30:29 AM
A new production of The Devils of Loudun, in the composer's latest revision, is being performed in Copenhagen, Warsaw and at the Edinburgh Festival!

http://kglteater.dk/whats-on/performances/season-2012-2013/opera/djaevlene-fra-loudun (http://kglteater.dk/whats-on/performances/season-2012-2013/opera/djaevlene-fra-loudun)

http://www.lionelfriend.com/images/thoughts_may2012.pdf (http://www.lionelfriend.com/images/thoughts_may2012.pdf)


Stage: Operaen Store Scene
Title: The Devils of Loudun
Artform: Opera
Performance period: 12. Feb. - 26. Mar. 2013
Duration: Approx. 1 hour 50 minutes. No interval.
Price: 895kr - 125kr
Dates: 12/02, 14/02, 27/02, 05/03, 12/03, 19/03, 24/03, 26/03

Quote from: lescamil on July 29, 2015, 08:48:33 AM
I am guessing that the 6th symphony is completed, but could perhaps be a withdrawn work. It might perhaps materialize after Penderecki's death. As for a 9th, I saw an interview years ago where he said that that is where he intends to stop, so I think we will get our 9th soon.

Quote(Richard Whitehouse, in Naxos' program booklet, noted that "though a 'No. 6' had been fully worked out in concept, it had not yet been written." Penderecki completed his Eighth Symphony in 2005, but at that time, the Sixth had still not appeared.)

Quote from: Maestro267 on August 11, 2015, 12:22:32 PM
Does anyone have a clue what is happening in Utrenja? A large part of why I find that piece quite difficult is the lack of access to a libretto. The Naxos recording doesn't have any texts available, either in the booklet or as a PDF.

Quote from: Cato on August 11, 2015, 12:46:01 PM
The work has two parts: the original Utrenja was subtitled The Entombment of Christ.  A second part was added a year or two later: The Resurrection of Christ.

I have a copy of the score for Part I in my archives (not handy right now).  The old vinyl recording from Phillips in the 1970's has a translated libretto.  So far I cannot find the translation online.

NAXOS and other companies need to be thinking about making their offerings more sensible.  The cost of a few pieces of paper to do the job right...

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 11, 2015, 05:55:11 PM
All IMHO of course and it's okay to tell me I'm ignorant and I need to clean my ears out. I've heard it all before. ::) ;D

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 11, 2015, 05:55:11 PM
Penderecki just feels like a composer that has been going through the motions for decades with the exception of his early, more experimental works. I mean he ranks up there with Pettersson as coming across as grandstanding with no platform to stand on.

Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on September 03, 2015, 08:30:16 AM
Interesting that you link these two. I like much by both of them, but with some serious caveats. However, I find them different in that I never doubt Pettersson's sincerity or earnestness even when I don't like what I'm hearing, while with Penderecki, when I hear something from him I don't like, it feels like he's just going through the motions as you say.

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 03, 2015, 03:52:09 PM
I like more of Pettersson than Penderecki. Take Pettersson's 7th for example. I love this work and feel it has the best elements of his style rolled into that symphony.

Quote from: Joaquimhock on October 27, 2015, 11:15:08 AM
Strange "post-classical" or neo something new piece by Penderecki... "Polonez": https://vimeo.com/141873703

Quote from: sanantonio on November 23, 2015, 07:12:54 AM
Krzysztof Penderecki : Poland's greatest living composer born #OnThisDay (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/11/23/krzysztof-penderecki-polands-greatest-living-composer-born-onthisday/)

(https://musicakaleidoscope.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/pendercki2.jpg?w=764)

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 02, 2016, 02:15:28 PMI noticed that Mr. Henning has been absent from this thread. I'd love to get his take on Penderecki's music. Come on, Karl!

Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on October 22, 2016, 01:51:28 AM
Penderecki does strike me definitely as a neo-romantic. But then, just like with Stravinsky there does seem to be more to the way he looks back at past styles.

I do find him as an odd composer to approach. His 60s works are good (not as interesting to me as his peers though), his symphonies are interesting, so are his concertos. There are great works there but compared to his peers, he sticks out as an oddball.   :-\

Quote from: Joaquimhock on September 20, 2017, 11:13:09 AM
6th symphony to be (finally) performed in 4 days. He says it's his last experience in the genre:

https://en.schott-music.com/work-week-krzysztof-penderecki-symphony-6/

Quote from: Androcles on October 22, 2016, 03:49:07 PM
I agree that he is Neo-Romantic. There's even a rather 'romantic' element to some of the 1960s work, I think. I'm not sure he's such an oddball though. His general trajectory from avantgarde to a more conservative idiom is in line with quite a number of composers who made a similar move in the 1970s, particularly in Eastern Europe: Arvo Part, Einojuhani Rautavaara, Valentin Silvestrov, even Alfred Schnittke. I suspect though, in most of the above cases, either the composer wasn't so well known as an avantgardist, or they didn't move quite so far back in the 'conservative' direction.

Recent music by Penderecki is not a terribly difficult listening experience, and can seem a bit gimmicky at times (some of the themes in the Piano Concerto, the 'tubaphones' in the Seven Gates of Jerusalem). That said, some of it has got some depth to it - Symphony No. 3, Violin Sonata No. 2 and a few others. Personally I have something of a soft spot for the earlier 'conservative' music: 1st Violin Concerto, Viola Concerto, 2nd Symphony, Polish Requiem, although I would agree his best works are probably from the 60s and early 70s - St. Luke Passion, Utrenja, Threnody, De Natura Sonoris I and II, Fluorescences.

I also rather like him as a person, from the interviews I've seen. I also saw him conduct his own music in concert and most enjoyed it. The Viola Concerto was performed and unfortunately the soloist broke a string towards the end - I think he dealt with it very well and, from what I remember gave the soloist a big hug.

Quote from: Turner on September 20, 2017, 11:21:57 AM
Interesting, thanks - also whether - or to what degree - it represents something different from the other symphonies & later syng cycles, etc.

Quote from: Cato on August 31, 2018, 11:12:06 AM
Just listened to the Third Symphony and the Piano Concerto #1 (Resurrection) via YouTube.  The comments there are all over the place, some wanting the 1950's-1970's experimenter to come back, others preferring the post 1970's Penderecki.

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on August 31, 2018, 11:39:14 AM
Hi, Cato. I recently read a section from Penderecki's Wikipedia page about this...



Penderecki explained this shift by stating that he had come to feel that the experimentation of the avant-garde had gone too far from the expressive, non-formal qualities of Western music: 'The avant-garde gave one an illusion of universalism. The musical world of Stockhausen, Nono, Boulez and Cage was for us, the young – hemmed in by the aesthetics of socialist realism, then the official canon in our country – a liberation...I was quick to realise however, that this novelty, this experimentation and formal speculation, is more destructive than constructive; I realised the Utopian quality of its Promethean tone'. Penderecki concluded that he was 'saved from the avant-garde snare of formalism by a return to tradition'.[11]

Quote from: Maciek on August 31, 2018, 02:17:01 PM
Well, one could easily argue that the opening motif of the symphony is based on the Christmas carol. The melodic material opening the symphony consists of a descending minor third (repeated thrice), an ascending major seventh, followed by another descending minor third. Compare that to the beginning of "Silent night", which is essentially two descending minor thirds (slightly embellished), an ascending seventh (a minor seventh, but still), and another descending minor third. Once you see the similarity, I'm sure you will be able to hear it too. The motif is a sort of distorted version of (or rather a variation on) the Christmas carol, at least that's how I would interpret it. I think the title of the symphony comes from the composer (I'm not 100% sure, though?).

Quote Hartmann revitalized the Austro-German symphonic tradition in the mid-20th century, at a time when the symphony was famously "dead." Boulez and Stockhausen had no time for his vast canvasses, but he knew what he was doing. From the vantage point of 2014 we can see that the revolutionaries of half a century ago were writing in a stylistic cul de sac . Their music is not to be dismissed, but too often they and their imitators discarded all the historical bathwater––and we know what is liable to happen in that scenario. Conversely, Hartmann's output has gained in stature with time. The fact that it is now far removed from the events that colored it does not diminish its power to speak to us, which is all the more reason to celebrate this excellent release.

Quote from: Cato on August 31, 2018, 11:12:06 AM

His official website is el sucko profundo   ???   and seems not to have been properly updated in 5 years or more.

Schott Publishing offers a preview of the score for the Sixth Symphony (Chinese Songs).

https://en.schott-music.com/shop/6-sinfonie-chinesische-lieder-no358733.html (https://en.schott-music.com/shop/6-sinfonie-chinesische-lieder-no358733.html)

Quote from: Joaquimhock on September 20, 2017, 11:13:09 AM
6th symphony to be (finally) performed in 4 days. He says it's his last experience in the genre:

Quote from: greg on December 04, 2018, 11:06:47 AM
Speaking of symphony 6, i read about it being performed last year but still could find no info, either.

Which ties back to my biggest frustration about classical music in general- even for some of the greatest living composers, very few people really give a shit about new music, and it can be very hard to get a hold of, as performances are prioritized over recordings.


I'd love to listen to Symphony 6, but it's like no one really cares...

Quote from: SymphonicAddict on January 09, 2019, 04:04:10 PM
I've given some spins to some works of his:

Fonogrammi
Capriccio for oboe and strings
Sonata for cello and orchestra
Capriccio for violin and orchestra
Partita for harpsichord, electric guitar, bass guitar, harp, double bass and chamber orchestra (quite a long name btw!)

By listening to these works, I seem to agree with those claiming that his early works are better than the most modern ones. Oh my goodness, what demonic stuff!! Mercilessly impressive, fascinating, weird, bizarre, inventive, intriguing, there is such a wealth of ideas and cacophonic sonorities/textures that simply my facial expression to all of them is  :o  :o  :o

I already knew some of his other works of this period (Symphony No. 1, Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima, De natura sonoris I & II, Kosmogonia, and Polymorphia) and I found them all great as well.

It's quite good to refresh my ears with this kind of music.

Quote from: kyjo on January 09, 2019, 08:36:58 PM
Very interesting, Cesar - thanks for the post. I've always been a bit "scared" of Penderecki's early works, but I should give them a try based on your enthusiasm!

Quote from: SymphonicAddict on January 10, 2019, 09:04:48 AM
Anyone who is receptive and curious shouldn't have any problem with that music. The scary feeling is precisely the biggest attractive of those works, the nightmare atmospheres they evoke.

Quote from: Cato on January 15, 2019, 10:42:45 AM
Quite true!

I came across this performance today: What say ye about the "Resurrection Piano Concerto" from 15 years ago or so?

https://www.youtube.com/v/i-NBM7yHtzg

Quote from: SymphonicAddict on January 17, 2019, 10:17:00 AM
Just the concerto ended. Wow! It was much more impressive than expected! A powerful rediscovery. Those grandiloquent and uplifting climaxes were the perfect contrast for the overall mood of the work. I reaffirm it's a superlative work.

Quote from: Maestro267 on January 23, 2019, 12:36:12 AM
I've ordered my next Penderecki disc. It includes Concerto Grosso No. 1 for three cellos and orchestra, Largo, and Sonata, both for single cello and orchestra.

I wonder if Wit and co will get around to recording more of his works. Some gaps I can think of off the top of my head are Cello Concerto No. 1, Concerto Grosso No. 2 (five clarinets and orchestra), Concerto Doppio (violin, cello and orchestra), the revised Symphony No. 8, Symphony No. 6.

Quote from: Maestro267 on September 21, 2019, 10:28:47 AM
Whether it's a good choice as a first Penderecki work, idk, but Utrenja was the first Penderecki work I bought. I was fascinated by the variety of sounds made by both instrumental and vocal forces. I find it a tough nut to crack, and one of the major factors in this is the lack of a printed libretto. Makes an already-difficult work even more challenging to follow. I can't even find a libretto anywhere on the internet.

Quote from: Carlo Gesualdo on November 28, 2019, 04:15:18 PM
I firmly believe none is darker than old Penderecki works. St Luke's passion is a great favourite and Utrenja is creepy as hell heathen.

Quote from: Maestro267 on September 21, 2019, 10:28:47 AM
Whether it's a good choice as a first Penderecki work, idk, but Utrenja was the first Penderecki work I bought. I was fascinated by the variety of sounds made by both instrumental and vocal forces. I find it a tough nut to crack, and one of the major factors in this is the lack of a printed libretto. Makes an already-difficult work even more challenging to follow. I can't even find a libretto anywhere on the internet.

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on November 28, 2019, 07:17:06 PM
St Luke's Passion is on my radar. If it is as good (or better) as Utrenja, definitely I want to hear it.

BTW, I recognize you from another site.

Quote from: Carlo Gesualdo on November 29, 2019, 08:02:52 AM
Mister Penderecki is Great, hello sir From Canada, I think your early works are pure genius, sir.

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on March 19, 2020, 01:25:05 PM
At last the very delayed Symphony No. 6 Chinese Songs:

(https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000679245289-iq9mrt-t500x500.jpg)

Quote from: greg on March 19, 2020, 03:28:19 PM
Am I dreaming?  ???

Preordered.

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on March 19, 2020, 01:25:05 PM
At last the very delayed Symphony No. 6 Chinese Songs:

(https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000679245289-iq9mrt-t500x500.jpg)

Quote from: Maestro267 on March 21, 2020, 11:04:51 AM
Fantastic! Finally the cycle is complete.

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on March 19, 2020, 01:25:05 PM
At last the very delayed Symphony No. 6 Chinese Songs:

(https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000679245289-iq9mrt-t500x500.jpg)

Quote from: relm1 on March 22, 2020, 04:33:10 PM
Just listened to this.  I think the Symphony is very beautiful!  It reminds me of Mahler's Das Lied von Der Erde though without any of the fast or loud moments.  Like Mahler's song cycle, this work isn't quite a symphony but more of song cycle and sung in German but of Chinese songs.  The general feel is lyrical, somewhat impressionistic, and exotic oriental song cycle.  It's a lovely and gentle work.  There is no angst in it at all but it does have a yearning quality.  I don't think I've heard anything from Penderecki that sounds like this.  In contrast, the Viola Concerto is what I consider typical of his late romantic style though here it is arranged for clarinet and strings.  This is a very fine disk.

Quote from: relm1 on March 21, 2020, 03:40:36 PM
Dammit, I want a No. 9!  And it would be his magnum opus.  The work that ties his early works and brings them full circle to his later neo-romantic style.

Quote from: schnittkease on March 29, 2020, 12:43:05 AM
RIP Krzysztof Penderecki (1933-2020). This is a huge blow as he was one of the first 'contemporary' composers I was introduced to.

Quote from: 71 dB on March 29, 2020, 04:17:03 AM
Sad news. Did Corona virus have anything to do with this? I haven't explored his music and don't know it apart from what Kubrick/Lynch used in their works...

Quote from: Maestro267 on March 29, 2020, 12:42:08 PM
Today I listened to the Piano Concerto ("Resurrection") and Utrenja.

Quote from: Maestro267 on March 31, 2020, 05:04:10 AM
Those works you mentioned are all very good. I do need to listen to (both) Violin Concertos more though. Not sure if you've heard any of these and perhaps dismissed them, but here goes.

Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima (1960)
St. Luke Passion (1966)
Symphony No. 2 (1980)
Symphony No. 7 ("Seven Gates of Jerusalem") (1996)
Piano Concerto ("Resurrection") (2002)

Quote from: vers la flamme on March 31, 2020, 06:30:43 AM
Is Penderecki's own Argo recording the way to go for the Luke Passion? The Wit looks good too. I'll sample both and see what I think.

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on March 22, 2020, 04:38:21 PM
You piqued my curiosity now. Sounds lovely for your description. It's definitely something I have to hear soon!

Quote from: vandermolen on April 06, 2020, 08:09:51 AM
In view of my liking for more 'traditional composers' what else should I be listening to?

Quote from: vandermolen on April 06, 2020, 08:09:51 AM
In view of my liking for more 'traditional composers' what else should I be listening to?

Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on April 06, 2020, 08:24:03 AM
The Naxos chamber music disc should be your first stop:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51cufXtDigL.jpg)

Quote from: Brewski on February 10, 2021, 07:44:08 AM
Just found this today: the 1969 film, directed by Rolf Liebermann for German television. Is there no end to what you can find on YouTube?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-zPEq48Sxg

--Bruce

Quote from: Brewski on February 10, 2021, 07:44:08 AM
Just found this today: the 1969 film, directed by Rolf Liebermann for German television. Is there no end to what you can find on YouTube?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-zPEq48Sxg

--Bruce

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on April 05, 2020, 04:59:12 PM
Listening to the 6th Symphony now. Oh, just beautiful! The poetic blended with the exotic in a superb way. And it's quite different from many of his other works, this is subdued, delicate, atmospheric, nocturnal, even sensuous, though it's not devoid of certain agitation in a few passages. The addition of Chinese instrument(s) was a singular and effective stroke of genius, and so is the orchestration overall.

I'm very pleased to have heard this lovely piece.

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 24, 2021, 07:23:12 PM
And I'm so thankful for not only the current recording of it, but the fact that Penderecki actually finished it. For years, we had an incomplete cycle --- is there a 6th? Will there be a 6th? I'm not sure if the composer himself was able to hear the recording that was made as it was released in 2019 (of course, he passed away in 2020), but he should be proud of this achievement. It is a gorgeous work and that Chinese instrument (an erhu, which I believe is one of the oldest instruments in the world, but don't quote me on this) lends an exotic, otherworldly color to the music. I just listened to this work for the first-time yesterday and couldn't believe my ears what I was hearing. It seems a hat-tip to Mahler, but, at the same time, the music is filtered through Penderecki's own prism. To say we lost a master last year, would be an understatement. I'm just relieved that his music has finally clicked with me. I'm completely onboard with both the early, avant-garde works and his turn to a more Neo-Romantic style. Honestly, it still sounds like him no matter the style its written in and this is a testament to his unique and unmistakable approach.

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 24, 2021, 08:51:36 PM
Glad to see your enthusiasm about this magical piece. I concur with you, John. I think the wait for the delayed 6th Symphony paid dividends because it's really a unique work in Penderecki's output. I really hope he could hear this work before dying.

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 24, 2021, 08:56:53 PM
Indeed. Have you heard A sea of dreams did breathe on me...? I think you'll enjoy this work as well. There are two recordings of it. I haven't heard the one on Dux, but the Wit on Naxos is excellent.

(https://albumart.primephonic.com/s900/747313306275.jpg)

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 25, 2021, 05:59:15 PM
Good, John. How is the music?

Quote from: kyjo on August 26, 2021, 03:05:14 PM
Not to rain on John's parade, but Penderecki is one of those composers I just can't get on board with. :-\ Whenever I listen to one of his works (be it early or late), I usually end up turning it off halfway through. To me, so much of it just sounds grey and depressing without the imaginative wit of Schnittke or the "heart" of Pettersson (to name two rather similar composers stylistically).

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 27, 2021, 05:08:01 AM
A follow-up to my previous message: not all of Penderecki's music is 'doom and gloom'. Give a listen to the Sinfoniettas, the Adagietto from Paradise Lost, A sea of dreams did breathe on me..., the Horn Concerto, Three Pieces in the Old Style, Symphony No. 6 et. al. I also want to say I think Kyle is forgetting about the bleak, withdrawn styles that Schnittke and Pettersson adapted in their later years. A prime example are Schnittke's last symphonies --- these are desolate, bleak works shrouded in shadow with the bold exception of the last movement of his 8th symphony where it sounds like some kind of ascension into the heavens. Also, Pettersson's style became more and more bleak and anguished as time wore on, especially after the middle trilogy of symphonies: the 6th, 7th and 8th. All three of these composers wrote dark, disturbed music, but I'd never call it depressing, because I don't hear the music that way. Another quick note and what do we make of Shostakovich's later style? How about Weinberg's? These composers don't exactly bask in the sunshine either. :)

I think Kyle will begin to enjoy Penderecki as he gains more listening experience, because I truly believe that if I can have a breakthrough with this composer, then anything is possible!

Quote from: relm1 on August 27, 2021, 05:46:47 AM
Piano concerto from 2001/2, rev 2007 is a rather exuberant piece and while dramatic, I wouldn't consider it gloom and doom.  I think No. 6 is an example of beauty and almost serenity - but I'm very confused about where to place that since I think it was one of his last works but might have been conceived a decade or two earlier.  Generally a gloomy composer in his late style with notable exceptions.

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 26, 2021, 08:14:00 PMI just find it cathartic to listen to these composers like Penderecki, Schnittke, Gubaidulina, Pettersson et. al. It helps me cope with a world in which I've remained an outsider all of my life, so this outsider mentality I find in the afore mentioned composers resonates deeply with me.

Quote from: vers la flamme on August 27, 2021, 01:22:09 PM
Well said! I can certainly relate.

I think I've only heard two Penderecki symphonies, 3 (incidentally, used to fine effect in the film Shutter Island, picked by longtime Penderecki fan Robbie Robertson) and 8. Anyone have any input on where to go from here, with his symphonies?

Edit: Just realized I also have the first symphony on an EMI 2CD, so I will have to check that out asap.

Quote from: vers la flamme on August 27, 2021, 01:22:09 PM
Well said! I can certainly relate.

I think I've only heard two Penderecki symphonies, 3 (incidentally, used to fine effect in the film Shutter Island, picked by longtime Penderecki fan Robbie Robertson) and 8. Anyone have any input on where to go from here, with his symphonies?

Edit: Just realized I also have the first symphony on an EMI 2CD, so I will have to check that out asap.

Quote from: Brewski on August 27, 2021, 03:44:29 PM
With all the Penderecki discussion, just wanted to put in a good word for his Song of Cherubim, which I discovered on this spectacular Dale Warland Singers recording years ago. I see there are a number of other versions (including tasty-looking ones from the Warsaw Philharmonic Choir and Tapiola Chamber Choir), but this one—with great sonics and pristine reverence—is pretty fine.

https://www.amazon.com/December-Stillness-Dale-Warland-Singers/dp/B000003M4S

--Bruce

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 27, 2021, 05:08:01 AM
A follow-up to my previous message: not all of Penderecki's music is 'doom and gloom'. Give a listen to the Sinfoniettas, the Adagietto from Paradise Lost, A sea of dreams did breathe on me..., the Horn Concerto, Three Pieces in the Old Style, Symphony No. 6 et. al. I also want to say I think Kyle is forgetting about the bleak, withdrawn styles that Schnittke and Pettersson adapted in their later years. A prime example are Schnittke's last symphonies --- these are desolate, bleak works shrouded in shadow with the bold exception of the last movement of his 8th symphony where it sounds like some kind of ascension into the heavens. Also, Pettersson's style became more and more bleak and anguished as time wore on, especially after the middle trilogy of symphonies: the 6th, 7th and 8th. All three of these composers wrote dark, disturbed music, but I'd never call it depressing, because I don't hear the music that way. Another quick note and what do we make of Shostakovich's later style? How about Weinberg's? These composers don't exactly bask in the sunshine either. :)

Quote from: vers la flamme on August 27, 2021, 01:22:09 PM
Well said! I can certainly relate.

I think I've only heard two Penderecki symphonies, 3 (incidentally, used to fine effect in the film Shutter Island, picked by longtime Penderecki fan Robbie Robertson) and 8. Anyone have any input on where to go from here, with his symphonies?

Edit: Just realized I also have the first symphony on an EMI 2CD, so I will have to check that out asap.

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 27, 2021, 06:55:06 PM
I don't hear a lot of Penderecki these days, but he's a firm favorite of mine. I find his aesthetics, coming from nightmarish avant-garde stuff to more-subdued-and-lyrical conceptions. I know more works of his first phase. The sonorities and effects there don't fail to open my mouth because of the astonishment it provokes on me. Maybe he's not a composer for everybody, but I'm glad much of his compositions do resonate with me too.

Quote from: Brewski on February 10, 2021, 07:44:08 AM
Just found this today: the 1969 film, directed by Rolf Liebermann for German television. Is there no end to what you can find on YouTube?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-zPEq48Sxg

--Bruce

Quote from: OrchestralNut on August 28, 2021, 03:14:36 AM
I am grateful to John (MI) for his gift of several Naxos Penderecki recordings years ago, which helped me discover his music.

I see that John has since repurchased several of those recordings again recently.  :D

Quote from: OrchestralNut on August 28, 2021, 03:11:53 AM
Just because of the recent discussion and interest in Penderecki, I am reposting Bruce's link to the visceral, captivating, made for TV production of Penderecki's opera The Devils of Loudun

Not being so much into opera myself, however, I found this to be terrific and recommend fans of the composer to check this out, especially if you are a fan of his early avant-garde style.  :)

Quote from: VonStupp on August 27, 2021, 04:01:15 PM
Dale Warland's retirement some 20 years ago was a big hit to the region where I live, nonetheless those who love the larger American chamber choir sound. All of those recordings are winners and I treasure them greatly.

Quote from: Brewski on August 28, 2021, 07:17:00 AM
So happy that you know of Warland, who really was one of the country's great choral conductors. And I totally agree about his body of work -- all fantastic recordings, with superb musicians.

--Bruce

Quote from: hvbias on August 27, 2021, 01:36:48 PM
Great soundtrack and film. One of those rare films I wanted to watch again immediately afterward to see if I could pick up on all the clues leading up to what we find out.

Edit: I have Penderecki conducting the symphonies on Dux. Is there anything further to be gained with the Antoni Wit cycle?

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 29, 2021, 10:34:31 AM
Here's a pretty interesting video about the music of The Shining:

https://www.youtube.com/v/bbqfc1jjeMI

Quote from: relm1 on August 29, 2021, 04:15:16 PM
Wow, that was very enlightening!

Quote from: Maestro267 on August 31, 2021, 12:39:48 AM
So happy that Penderecki seems to have clicked for you. All this talk in here is making me want to revisit his music again. And all the composers you mentioned some time ago as having "outsider" mentality...Schnittke, Pettersson, et al. are all among my favourites as well.

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 31, 2021, 07:04:40 AM
Thanks, Maestro. Do you have a large Penderecki collection?

Quote from: DavidW on August 31, 2021, 09:10:17 AM
I'm not him but I used to have all of Penderecki's symphonies, concertos, vocal works and chamber works I could get my hands on.  I actually had a larger Penderecki collection than I did a Mahler collection.

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 31, 2021, 07:04:40 AM
Thanks, Maestro. Do you have a large Penderecki collection?

Quote from: Maestro267 on August 31, 2021, 01:13:20 PM
14 recordings from the Naxos series. I think the only ones I'm missing are the Horn Concerto disc, A Sea of Dreams... and Sinfoniettas and so on.

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 31, 2021, 09:47:15 AM
Nice, Dave! So you got rid of all your physical collection or just the Penderecki?

Quote from: DavidW on August 31, 2021, 03:12:56 PM
The former.

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 31, 2021, 03:14:17 PM
Ah, well I hate hearing about this, but I do understand in terms of saving space.

Quote from: DavidW on August 31, 2021, 03:26:49 PM
Funny enough I'm now buying a house so I now actually have room! :D  I'm thinking about making one of the rooms a dedicated music room.

Quote from: Maestro267 on September 01, 2021, 04:05:50 AM
I do also have Spotify premium so I did listen to A Sea of Dreams the other day, and I really enjoyed it. Shame I can't find the Dux recording of Symphony No. 8 on there, despite plenty of non-symphony recordings of that series being available.

Quote from: Maestro267 on September 01, 2021, 08:05:47 AM
I think I might be working my way through the symphonies in numerical order so I'll listen to No. 6 when I get to it. Listened to No. 2 today and loved it, as usual.

Quote from: Maestro267 on September 02, 2021, 06:26:32 AM
After completing Nos. 3-5 in a burst early this morning, I've now arrived at No. 6 "Chinese Poems". Reading a review of the recording mentioning the composer "hoping to complete a cycle of nine symphonies" and that being dashed by his passing in March 2020. Obviously we have no record of him mentioning the following but in my mind it would be quite easy to consider A Sea of Dreams Did Breathe On Me as his 9th Symphony. It follows a very similar formula to No.8, a song cycle for soloists, chorus and orchestra, with the extra note that the songs of Sea of Dreams are grouped into three large (symphonic) parts.

Quote from: DavidW on September 02, 2021, 06:29:49 AM
I didn't realize that he passed away.

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 27, 2021, 05:08:01 AM
A follow-up to my previous message: not all of Penderecki's music is 'doom and gloom'. Give a listen to the Sinfoniettas, the Adagietto from Paradise Lost, A sea of dreams did breathe on me..., the Horn Concerto, Three Pieces in the Old Style, Symphony No. 6 et. al. I also want to say I think Kyle is forgetting about the bleak, withdrawn styles that Schnittke and Pettersson adapted in their later years. A prime example are Schnittke's last symphonies --- these are desolate, bleak works shrouded in shadow with the bold exception of the last movement of his 8th symphony where it sounds like some kind of ascension into the heavens. Also, Pettersson's style became more and more bleak and anguished as time wore on, especially after the middle trilogy of symphonies: the 6th, 7th and 8th. All three of these composers wrote dark, disturbed music, but I'd never call it depressing, because I don't hear the music that way. Another quick note and what do we make of Shostakovich's later style? How about Weinberg's? These composers don't exactly bask in the sunshine either. :)

I think Kyle will begin to enjoy Penderecki as he gains more listening experience, because I truly believe that if I can have a breakthrough with this composer, then anything is possible!

Quote from: Maestro267 on September 02, 2021, 07:55:28 AM
I'll have to make do with the Wit performance for now. Penderecki's own recording is the complete version, with more poems added. I think the Wit recording was the complete version at the time but it's since been superseded.

Quote from: kyjo on September 02, 2021, 07:20:43 PM
Thanks for this and your previous post, John. I'll give some of these works a try at some point in the near future, but I may need some prodding! ;) Like you, I've also been dealing with some bouts of depression recently, but more often than not I cope with it by listening to music that is optimistic and hopeful (at least in the end!) rather than dark and pessimistic. Everyone's different! :)

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 07, 2021, 11:21:09 AM
An interesting guide to some key Penderecki works:

https://www.classical-music.com/features/articles/best-works-krzysztof-penderecki/ (https://www.classical-music.com/features/articles/best-works-krzysztof-penderecki/)

To be honest, I think the list is short and doesn't really give much of an overview of his work. I suppose it might be a fine list for someone just getting into his music and don't know exactly what to listen to first.

I'd add the following six works to this list: Symphony No. 2, "Christmas Symphony", String Quartet No. 3, "Leaves of an unwritten diary", Polish Requiem, Violin Sonata No. 2, Sextet and Kosmogonia.

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 07, 2021, 12:27:44 PM
Definitely have to add Polymorphia to that list. Perhaps the most frightening piece of music I have ever heard.

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 14, 2021, 06:46:46 AM
What are people's top five Penderecki works? John (MI)? 😁

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 14, 2021, 07:36:24 AM
An excellent question, Ray. I'll have to go with the following for today (in no particular order):

Cello Concerto No. 2
Horn Concerto, "Winterreise"
St. Luke Passion
Kosmogonia
String Quartet No. 3, "Leaves from an unwritten diary"

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 07, 2021, 11:21:09 AM
An interesting guide to some key Penderecki works:

https://www.classical-music.com/features/articles/best-works-krzysztof-penderecki/ (https://www.classical-music.com/features/articles/best-works-krzysztof-penderecki/)

To be honest, I think the list is short and doesn't really give much of an overview of his work. I suppose it might be a fine list for someone just getting into his music and don't know exactly what to listen to first.

I'd add the following six works to this list: Symphony No. 2, "Christmas Symphony", String Quartet No. 3, "Leaves of an unwritten diary", Polish Requiem, Violin Sonata No. 2, Sextet and Kosmogonia.

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 14, 2021, 08:25:06 AM
Hmmm, out of those, I think I have only heard the St. Luke Passion.

Quote from: foxandpeng on September 14, 2021, 09:11:29 AM
This is incredibly helpful. I need to elevate Penderecki to near the top of my 'to do' list. I've been tracking your listening with real interest, and it seems his music may well resonate strongly with me, from what I've read. Yet another worthy project ahead. I've lost some traction with the Holmboe quartets recently, due to necessary distraction with some other fine works, but this encourages rather than discourages me.

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 14, 2021, 10:43:29 AM
Yeah, well, over the past month or so I've heard A LOT of Penderecki, but honestly, I feel I'm only getting started as there are many works that I haven't even heard yet as well.

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 14, 2021, 10:57:26 AM
I need to add to my collection a lot of pieces. First, I am going to start going through a relisten of what I have.  :)

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 14, 2021, 11:01:11 AM
Always a sensible thing to do for sure. It certainly beats my own method, which is buy everything and then give it away later. ;) :P

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 14, 2021, 07:36:24 AM
An excellent question, Ray. I'll have to go with the following for today (in no particular order):

Cello Concerto No. 2
Horn Concerto, "Winterreise"
St. Luke Passion
Kosmogonia
String Quartet No. 3, "Leaves from an unwritten diary"

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 14, 2021, 11:22:16 AM
Well, I have already added 7 discs on my Amazon wish list.  :D

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 14, 2021, 11:22:16 AM
Well, I have already added 7 discs on my Amazon wish list.  :D

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 14, 2021, 12:02:54 PM
Amongst the wishlist:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51CGC-Lr9pL._SS135_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51yn8KKeg3L._SS135_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61lXYViGU1L._SS135_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51rU7cwvc8L._SS135_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51wb2QGdB6L._SS135_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41CfLHx7P3L._SS135_.jpg)

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 14, 2021, 06:46:46 AM
What are people's top five Penderecki works? John (MI)? 😁

Quote from: DavidW on September 14, 2021, 03:40:09 PM
That looks like you were only directing the question at MI but I'll answer anyway:

Symphony #3, 1, 5
Clarinet Quartet

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 14, 2021, 04:01:09 PM
Oh, of course anyone can answer. Thanks David. I'll listen to Symphony 1 and 5 tomorrow, along with the Clarinet Quartet. I listened to the marvelous 3rd symphony today.  :)

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 14, 2021, 06:46:46 AM
What are people's top five Penderecki works? John (MI)? 😁

Quote from: Maestro267 on September 15, 2021, 03:50:10 AM
Piano Concerto "Resurrection"
Symphony No. 7 "Seven Gates of Jerusalem"
Symphony No. 2
Credo
Concerto Grosso No. 1

Quote from: Maestro267 on September 15, 2021, 03:50:10 AM
Piano Concerto "Resurrection"
Symphony No. 7 "Seven Gates of Jerusalem"
Symphony No. 2
Credo
Concerto Grosso No. 1

Quote from: DavidW on September 15, 2021, 04:38:08 AM
I think that shows a personal our tastes our... those are my least favorite works of Penderecki! :laugh:

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 15, 2021, 04:43:13 AM
What I generally find prevalent in fans of Penderecki are the two camps:

Fans of his early avant-garde period and fans of his later period, and never the two shall meet.  ;D

Not everyone, obviously, but in general.

Quote from: DavidW on September 15, 2021, 05:25:30 AM
Actually I like both periods.

Quote from: Maestro267 on September 15, 2021, 03:50:10 AM
Piano Concerto "Resurrection"
Symphony No. 7 "Seven Gates of Jerusalem"
Symphony No. 2
Credo
Concerto Grosso No. 1

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 15, 2021, 04:43:13 AM
What I generally find prevalent in fans of Penderecki are the two camps:

Fans of his early avant-garde period and fans of his later period, and never the two shall meet.  ;D

Not everyone, obviously, but in general.

Quote from: DavidW on September 14, 2021, 03:40:09 PM
That looks like you were only directing the question at MI but I'll answer anyway:

Clarinet Quartet

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 15, 2021, 06:30:28 AM
Just relistened to this again, David.  It is magnificent, isn't it?  :)

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 28, 2021, 06:07:50 AM
The problem is if someone wants to buy a recording of it all there is is that Philips recording, which is OOP, rare and if you do find one, incredibly expensive. I hope Decca reissues it, but I'm not going to hold my breath. ;)

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 15, 2021, 06:38:09 AM
The Sextet and Violin Sonatas are also top-notch. Of course, I love the SQs, too.

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 15, 2021, 06:40:18 AM
That, or this option of a multi DVD opera set.

The Devils of Loudun

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk3NjcyMC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjEyODUxNTM5NTZ9)

This is the one that is available currently on YouTube, that Bruce kindly shared the link to earlier this year.

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 15, 2021, 06:43:28 AM
Listening to the Sextet now, John.

As for the violin sonatas, I've just ordered them (Naxos set).  Haven't heard these before.  I'm also only familiar with the 1st string quartet (famously playing at the opening credits of The Exorcist).

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 15, 2021, 06:49:54 AM
I'd much rather listen to an opera than watch it --- as strange as that sounds.

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 15, 2021, 06:38:09 AM
The Sextet and Violin Sonatas are also top-notch. Of course, I love the SQs, too.

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 15, 2021, 06:49:54 AM
I'd much rather listen to an opera than watch it --- as strange as that sounds.

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 15, 2021, 06:55:55 AM
Oh yes, I do know that about you, John.  :)

I'm kind of like that with ballet music.  8)

Quote from: DavidW on September 15, 2021, 07:00:33 AM
His chamber works are hidden gems.

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 15, 2021, 07:07:40 AM
Nice Penderecki avatar, Ray. 8)

Quote from: DavidW on September 15, 2021, 07:02:06 AM
After I've initially watched it and know it I then prefer to just listen.  But I don't like it if I can't have that initial watch.

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 15, 2021, 07:10:27 AM
I know 100% for a fact that Karl Henning would love his Prelude for Solo Clarinet (1959) and the Clarinet Quartet (1993)  :)

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 15, 2021, 07:43:16 AM
Just listened to Kanon for Tape and Orchestra (1962).  Another one of Penderecki's eerie, frightening pieces from his avant-garde period!  :o  Used also in great effect in The Exorcist and The Shining films.

YouTube - Orchestra Sinfonica Nazionale della Radio Polacca - conducted by the composer

*Not to be listened to just before bedtime.  :D

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 15, 2021, 07:55:45 AM
I listened to this piece for the first-time a few nights ago and thought there was something wrong with my headphones. :D But then I realized that tape part was divided up, which was pretty freaking cool sounding.

The performance I listened to came from this 2-CD set, which of course is way OOP at this juncture:

(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b273568192914c57670fdb43c317)

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 15, 2021, 08:01:28 AM
Yeah, I was looking for that disc, but couldn't find it in CD form (available as a download though on Presto).  Was probably that exact performance that was on YouTube.

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 15, 2021, 08:17:06 AM
I also bought this set, which is essential listening, too:

(https://img.discogs.com/os3kYhMjRjWR2VqKjCiURzrV6AM=/fit-in/600x594/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1280308-1464975195-1562.jpeg.jpg)

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 15, 2021, 07:09:18 AM
Well, opera in general is on the bottom of my list when it comes to my own preferences, but I do love several of them.

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 15, 2021, 08:26:19 AM
Question:  Are there any recordings of the Polish Requiem that includes the Chaconne as part of the whole performance?  It should be sandwiched in between the Sanctus and Agnus Dei.

Of note, the Chaconne was written in 2005 (in memory of the late Pope John Paul II), while the Polish Requiem was written in 1984.  The Chaconne is supposed to be an addendum to the Polish Requiem, but I have only seen it performed separately.

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 15, 2021, 08:30:01 AM
Would this be the same John, just a reissue of the above?

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAwNDM3OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0NjEwODE0NDl9)

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 15, 2021, 08:32:51 AM
Not to my knowledge, Ray. In fact, here's the premiere of the revised work:

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 15, 2021, 08:34:23 AM
Yep, they're both the same. 8) I actually own the older issue and this new one with the Warner logo. :D I gave my dad the new reissue on Warner.

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 15, 2021, 08:53:09 AM
Right, I don't see the Chaconne included there.  Thanks!

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 15, 2021, 08:53:41 AM
Thanks, I've added the Warner reissue to my basket.  8)

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 15, 2021, 04:43:13 AM
What I generally find prevalent in fans of Penderecki are the two camps:

Fans of his early avant-garde period and fans of his later period, and never the two shall meet.  ;D

Not everyone, obviously, but in general.

Quote from: Maestro267 on September 15, 2021, 12:34:44 PM
If you have Spotify you can programme it to queue up the Chaconne (on the Naxos disc with Te Deum) in between the Sanctus and Agnus Dei. It's very effective.

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 15, 2021, 01:29:37 PM
I don't have Spotify, unfortunately. I am a CD Cro Magnon type of guy :D But yes, I see how that would work well in that situation.

I do have that Naxos disc with the Chaconne, a phenomenonal one at that, coupled with the Te Deum, Daniel's Hymne and Polymorphia. And do have the Wit performance on another disc for the Polish Requiem.

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 15, 2021, 01:29:37 PM
I don't have Spotify, unfortunately. I am a CD Cro Magnon type of guy :D But yes, I see how that would work well in that situation.

I do have that Naxos disc with the Chaconne, a phenomenonal one at that, coupled with the Te Deum, Daniel's Hymne and Polymorphia. And do have the Wit performance on another disc for the Polish Requiem.

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 16, 2021, 08:06:35 AM
Here is my order from yesterday, essentially, doubling my Penderecki library.   :laugh:  Most (not all) will be brand new music for me, other than some of the music that has appeared on Hollywood films (The Awakening of Jacob, as an example).

Quote from: Spotted Horses on September 16, 2021, 10:17:24 AM
I'm looking back at my listening notes, and I seem to like Pederecki more than I thought. :)  Recently listened to the viola and cello concertos and found them engaging.

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 16, 2021, 08:06:35 AM
Here is my order from yesterday, essentially, doubling my Penderecki library.   :laugh:  Most (not all) will be brand new music for me, other than some of the music that has appeared on Hollywood films (The Awakening of Jacob, as an example).

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAwNDM3OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0NjEwODE0NDl9)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODkxNTQ1OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MjEwMDE1MjZ9)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODc2NzcwNy4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1ODQ3MTU1NzR9)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAwNjYxNy4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1NTd9)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAwMTQ0My4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1ODY4ODI4MDl9)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODA2MTAzOC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0NzExNjE2MzJ9)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODA3NzYyMC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0NjQ4MzU5OTN9)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAxOTk1NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1NTd9)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkyODY4My4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1NTd9)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAwNDg4NS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0NzExMDMwMjJ9)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAyODA2Ny4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MDAwODg2NTd9)

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 16, 2021, 08:06:35 AM
Here is my order from yesterday, essentially, doubling my Penderecki library.   :laugh:  Most (not all) will be brand new music for me, other than some of the music that has appeared on Hollywood films (The Awakening of Jacob, as an example).


(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODkxNTQ1OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MjEwMDE1MjZ9)

Quote from: hvbias on September 17, 2021, 02:09:06 PM
This was part of my best of when it came out. There is apparently a ton I don't have, a Naxos box set would be quite welcome at this point!

Quote from: hvbias on September 17, 2021, 02:09:06 PM
This was part of my best of when it came out. There is apparently a ton I don't have, a Naxos box set would be quite welcome at this point!

Quote from: Maestro267 on September 18, 2021, 10:27:27 PM
There are two boxes of assorted Naxos Penderecki discs out there. (Amazon links below.)

This one with choral works (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Masterworks-20th-Century-Box-Choral/dp/B002JP9HTO/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=penderecki+naxos+box&qid=1632032752&qsid=258-4691245-2908408&sr=8-1&sres=B002JP9HTO%2CB008DWG0CY%2CB00000J8K6%2CB08H8VF9JP%2CB00008IHVW%2CB000675OFS%2CB006O51DC4%2CB0723441JW%2CB013XU2P60%2CB092PJ99TH%2CB07PH9Z1QB%2CB07BDMNJMV)

This one with symphonies (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphonies-other-Orchestral-Works/dp/B008DWG0CY/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=penderecki+naxos+box&qid=1632032752&qsid=258-4691245-2908408&sr=8-2&sres=B002JP9HTO%2CB008DWG0CY%2CB00000J8K6%2CB08H8VF9JP%2CB00008IHVW%2CB000675OFS%2CB006O51DC4%2CB0723441JW%2CB013XU2P60%2CB092PJ99TH%2CB07PH9Z1QB%2CB07BDMNJMV)

Quote from: Maestro267 on September 18, 2021, 10:27:27 PM
There are two boxes of assorted Naxos Penderecki discs out there. (Amazon links below.)

This one with choral works (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Masterworks-20th-Century-Box-Choral/dp/B002JP9HTO/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=penderecki+naxos+box&qid=1632032752&qsid=258-4691245-2908408&sr=8-1&sres=B002JP9HTO%2CB008DWG0CY%2CB00000J8K6%2CB08H8VF9JP%2CB00008IHVW%2CB000675OFS%2CB006O51DC4%2CB0723441JW%2CB013XU2P60%2CB092PJ99TH%2CB07PH9Z1QB%2CB07BDMNJMV)

This one with symphonies (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphonies-other-Orchestral-Works/dp/B008DWG0CY/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=penderecki+naxos+box&qid=1632032752&qsid=258-4691245-2908408&sr=8-2&sres=B002JP9HTO%2CB008DWG0CY%2CB00000J8K6%2CB08H8VF9JP%2CB00008IHVW%2CB000675OFS%2CB006O51DC4%2CB0723441JW%2CB013XU2P60%2CB092PJ99TH%2CB07PH9Z1QB%2CB07BDMNJMV)

Quote from: Maestro267 on September 18, 2021, 10:27:27 PM
There are two boxes of assorted Naxos Penderecki discs out there. (Amazon links below.)

This one with choral works (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Masterworks-20th-Century-Box-Choral/dp/B002JP9HTO/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=penderecki+naxos+box&qid=1632032752&qsid=258-4691245-2908408&sr=8-1&sres=B002JP9HTO%2CB008DWG0CY%2CB00000J8K6%2CB08H8VF9JP%2CB00008IHVW%2CB000675OFS%2CB006O51DC4%2CB0723441JW%2CB013XU2P60%2CB092PJ99TH%2CB07PH9Z1QB%2CB07BDMNJMV)

This one with symphonies (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphonies-other-Orchestral-Works/dp/B008DWG0CY/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=penderecki+naxos+box&qid=1632032752&qsid=258-4691245-2908408&sr=8-2&sres=B002JP9HTO%2CB008DWG0CY%2CB00000J8K6%2CB08H8VF9JP%2CB00008IHVW%2CB000675OFS%2CB006O51DC4%2CB0723441JW%2CB013XU2P60%2CB092PJ99TH%2CB07PH9Z1QB%2CB07BDMNJMV)

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 19, 2021, 03:40:50 AM
True, there are those two. I think Antoni Wit is likely still planning further recordings, so until he is done, we'll have to wait for a "complete" Naxos Penderecki box.

Quote from: Maestro267 on September 18, 2021, 10:27:27 PM
There are two boxes of assorted Naxos Penderecki discs out there. (Amazon links below.)

This one with choral works (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Masterworks-20th-Century-Box-Choral/dp/B002JP9HTO/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=penderecki+naxos+box&qid=1632032752&qsid=258-4691245-2908408&sr=8-1&sres=B002JP9HTO%2CB008DWG0CY%2CB00000J8K6%2CB08H8VF9JP%2CB00008IHVW%2CB000675OFS%2CB006O51DC4%2CB0723441JW%2CB013XU2P60%2CB092PJ99TH%2CB07PH9Z1QB%2CB07BDMNJMV)

This one with symphonies (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphonies-other-Orchestral-Works/dp/B008DWG0CY/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=penderecki+naxos+box&qid=1632032752&qsid=258-4691245-2908408&sr=8-2&sres=B002JP9HTO%2CB008DWG0CY%2CB00000J8K6%2CB08H8VF9JP%2CB00008IHVW%2CB000675OFS%2CB006O51DC4%2CB0723441JW%2CB013XU2P60%2CB092PJ99TH%2CB07PH9Z1QB%2CB07BDMNJMV)

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 19, 2021, 06:29:50 AM
Hopefully, Wit will record Symphony No. 6, "Chinese Songs". I hope it happens sooner rather than later as Wit is in his late 70s.

Quote from: vers la flamme on September 19, 2021, 11:33:02 AM
Pshh, the 70s for a conductor are like the 30s for any other professional  :laugh:

Quote from: DavidW on September 20, 2021, 05:24:38 AM
I listened to the Tippett Q recording of the string chamber works yesterday.  In particular I liked the string trio.  I've never heard the SQs and trio before.

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 20, 2021, 07:12:09 AM
Excellent! The 3rd SQ remains my favorite of all his chamber works right now, but I do like the Clarinet Quintet and Sextet a lot as well.

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 19, 2021, 03:40:50 AM
True, there are those two. I think Antoni Wit is likely still planning further recordings, so until he is done, we'll have to wait for a "complete" Naxos Penderecki box.

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 21, 2021, 11:25:39 AM
Interesting.

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 15, 2021, 06:43:28 AM
Listening to the Sextet now, John.

As for the violin sonatas, I've just ordered them (Naxos set).  Haven't heard these before.  I'm also only familiar with the 1st string quartet (famously playing at the opening credits of The Exorcist).

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on September 22, 2021, 05:02:03 AM
Oh, interesting!  I didn't know that his music was used in that film.  I did find this...just a tiny snippet used there:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qpw-GbEpjR4

PD

p.s.  Any idea whose recording was used?  And how do you like it overall?

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on September 22, 2021, 05:02:03 AM
p.s.  Any idea whose recording was used? 

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 22, 2021, 05:12:25 AM
I don't know which recording it was. Obviously it would have to be 1973 or prior. Perhaps it was the LaSalle quartet since they recorded it in 1967.

Quote from: DavidW on September 22, 2021, 05:18:50 AM
Slatkin

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070047/soundtrack/?ref_=tt_trv_snd (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070047/soundtrack/?ref_=tt_trv_snd)

Quote from: DavidW on September 22, 2021, 05:18:50 AM
Slatkin

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070047/soundtrack/?ref_=tt_trv_snd (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070047/soundtrack/?ref_=tt_trv_snd)

Quote from: OrchestralNut on September 22, 2021, 05:34:01 AM
I don't see in there where it specifically mentions the performers or ensemble for the string quartet? Or I've overlooked it.

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on September 22, 2021, 10:27:22 AM
I took it to mean that the necessary excerpt was recorded by members of the National Philharmonic Orchestra?  Or were they not providing accurate information on that website?  I couldn't find anything else.  Tempted to borrow the movie--both to watch the movie again and to check out the music...and the credits!  ;D

PD