One of my favorite composers... in theory. Thread under construction.
I know the Double viola and harpsichord concerto, Reflections (piano), Flute concerto and the Requiem: these last two are particularly fine, the Requiem quite unusual and hinting at the Ligeti.
I'm having a hard time wanting to write about Denisov. He's one of those composers I got interested in and then started slogging through recordings until I relented! I had both versions of the Symphony, as if in an attempt to convince me it was a masterpiece? It may be, but, ultimately it's dour demeanor did me in. All I can think is Bach meets Berg minus Gorecki (?!?) in that... oh, I don't want to explain it. Can anyone help me out here?
The BIS disc with the concertos you mention is probably the best all around introduction to Denisov, no? There are few other all Denisov discs... a couple with Sun of the Incas, his '60s debut, the Symphony, Piano Concerto, the discs you mentioned...
I enjoy Denisov's late '80s flowering of chamber music, including the Clarinet Quintet, the Piano Quintet, and the Four Pieces for SQ (only one of which is recorded). They are all four mvmt. Ligeti-sounding perfections of "avant classical," very delicate, crystalline, magical, and explosive. Many composers seem to have hit on this style at the same time in late '80s, early '90s... I'm thinking of variations on late Berio (like Castiglioni).
The Denisov discography is typically frustrating, but there are some really interesting and expensive >:D recitals out there, including a Pierre Verany disc with Claude Delangle and Percussions de Strassbourg, and a disc of flute, piano, and percussion works performed by Denisov's son, Dimitri (did he like Shosty, hmm?), on flute.
There are a couple of Le Chant du Monde discs of violin, cello, and piano sonatas, trios, and quintets,... a couple of Mobile Fidelity discs... others???
I believe his vocal music is fairly well served. That Requiem does sound very interesting. Schnittke, Ligeti...
I guess my only real point in this ramble is that even though it appears that there are a lot of Denisov pieces out there, there is something vaguely unsettling in the inconsistancy. Denisov is still a very piecemeal affair, and the cds I want are either hopelessly OOP or literally cost about $100, so...
I'm concerned that there's another Denisov thread around here.
I finally got a copy of the Chant du Monde "Chamber Works" disc, with Rudin and Armengaud, of the cello/piano works, the Quintet for Piano and SQ, and the piano piece, Reflets. Now, along with the MobileFidelity disc, I have all the Denisov chamber music one needs to get started!
Denisov's Sonata for cello and Piano (1971) MAY BE THE FIRST WORK THAT SETS THE SEAL ON dENISOV'S MATURE STYLE (SORRY CAPS). It's short and sweet, or not, and should make a very nice make weight for Schnittke's sonata. The earlier Three Pieces are even more Webernesque.
I had been waiting to hear the 1989 Quintet for some while, having already heard the Clarinet Quintet. (I believe there is a disc with the two quintets and the Flute Quartet altogether) Hearing this piece reminds me how Denisov sounds like a slightly slower Castiglioni. Both have that plastic up-and-down chromatic filigree lilt. In a way, Denisov can remind me of a very busy Feldman, in the anonymity of it all. Some may think this is all dreadfully boring stuff, and I do not deny that there are reminders here, but ultimately I feel that Denisov came to this stuff on his own, and was certainly one of the first, and best, IMO, of the second wave of composers coming to like at the end of the '60s-early '70s (Rihm, etc...).
Add to this the single track of Denisov's 4mvmt. SQ on the Arditti's "From Vienna", and you start to get a feel for what this music CAN sound like with super players (the playing on the Chant du Monde can't compare, and it's recorded just a bit dry- not the optimum for such wispy and intangible music).
Certainly, the flute disc with Denisov's son is intriguing, as is that cd with the Strassbourg percussion outfit and saxophonist Claude Delangle (which brings up the sax sonata).
We probably won't be geting too many more Denisov discs, I presume, but I think we have enough out there to be able to get a good selection of the "good" stuff (remember, he can be a slight bit uneven).
ahhh,...no love whatsoever! >:D
Well, I finally got a hold of this PierreVerany cd that has the Sonata for Saxophone and Piano (1971), 3 Pieces for Percussion Ensemble (late '80s), 3 Pieces for 2Pianos (1967), and the Piccolo Concerto (1977) for saxophone and six percussionists.
Claude Delangle and the Percussions de Strasbourg are the featured artists, and, besides a very close, and dynamic, recording (much percussion time seems to be spent verrrry quietly), the music and performances are all intriguing. Denisov is just a mysterious composer, and that's all there is to it!
The Sonata is a very tough, nutty piece, seemingly the perfect combo of serialismo and hard jazz. This is quite a piece. I'd like to hear some other opinions.
The main problem with this cd is that it makes me want more. In the pinch, I got the Complete Piano Works by Jean Pierre Armengaud (?), on Mandala (HM). I have the other chamber discs mentioned in the previous post, so I thought this would supplement nicely.
There are early, Bartokian Bagatelles, which are followed by the Variations of 1961. I plan to compare with Castiglioni later, but, I just find these composers who got there start around 1959 really interesting.
The main draw hear in Signes et Blanc (White Signs; 1974), the most placid, peaceful serialismo I've every heard. Truly, it is a "white" piece, and very much remindful of Castiglioni's upper register wintery chills. Here, Denisov does the same thing for summer!
The follow up piece, Reflets (Reflections: 1986), is the echt Denisov piece. I will admit that he pretty much does Denisov all the time, and, if you want to appreciate Denisov, you have to be discrimminating (not that he's all that well represented). I find him to be slightly creepy in his white perfections, and his aural war between "light" and "dark". Paranoidically speaking, I think Denisov and Crumb should have gotten together!
There are the Variations on a Theme by Handel, which I'll have to recheck, but, to my ears, the last 3 Pieces (or, are they Preludes,...or Etudes?? ???) sum up Denisov very nicely (he has always preferred three mvmt pieces). They are consummate, virtuous, and nobly grave,...tantalizing, just like how I find this composer.
I know, I know,...you think he's boring. :-*
Quote from: snyprrr on July 27, 2010, 06:31:58 PM
ahhh,...no love whatsoever! >:D
[overview snipped]
I know, I know,...you think he's boring. :-*
Actually, recently I saw a program about him on Russian TV, and it got me intrigued in trying him. Top of his hit list seems to be the Requiem, and that Inca thing. That was the impression I got anyway. What would be a good entry point?
BTW, Moscow's Int'l House of Music (a newish concert venue) has a portrait of him in the lobby, along with other modern composers like Schnittke and Gubaidulina. It's like an updated version of the composer portraits at the Great Hall of the Conservatory, which reflect late 19th-century taste.
Quote from: Velimir on July 27, 2010, 10:54:09 PM
Actually, recently I saw a program about him on Russian TV, and it got me intrigued in trying him. Top of his hit list seems to be the Requiem, and that Inca thing. That was the impression I got anyway. What would be a good entry point?
Requiem would be a good start--it's probably my favourite Denisov work; so would any of the viola/orchestra pieces (including the arrangement of the viola concerto as a saxophone concerto. All of these works are in his later, more neo-romantic style (and all utilize his own "motto theme," something I find gets a bit tiresome when you hear it in a dozen different pieces.
Sun of the Incas is my favourite work from his more modernist period. Reviewers of it seem to mention
Pierrot and
Marteau in relation to it, but I think both references miss the point--it's very much its own piece.
Hopefully there's more in print in Russia than there is in Canada--finding Denisov recordings has always been a frustrating experience for me.
Thanks....I'll look around and see what (if anything) I can find. I figure Melodiya at least must have recorded him at some point?
The chamber works mentioned by snyprrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr sound interesting...heard any of 'em?
Quote from: Velimir on July 27, 2010, 10:54:09 PMBTW, Moscow's Int'l House of Music (a newish concert venue) has a portrait of him in the lobby, along with other modern composers like Schnittke and Gubaidulina. It's like an updated version of the composer portraits at the Great Hall of the Conservatory, which reflect late 19th-century taste.
One day they might even programme his music, as well as putting up his picture ;)
Quote from: Velimir on July 28, 2010, 04:00:07 AM
Thanks....I'll look around and see what (if anything) I can find. I figure Melodiya at least must have recorded him at some point?
The chamber works mentioned by snyprrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr sound interesting...heard any of 'em?
Offhand, I know Melodiya recorded the first Chamber Symphony, Requiem and
Sun of the Incas (all of which are very representative of the composer), plus some more minor works.
I've heard quite a few of the chamber works snyprrr mentions--I fear I am at risk of underselling them when I say that for me they have a slight tendency to blur into each other (the earlier works having a little too undigested Western avant-garde influences; the later ones tending to a certain repetitiveness of emotional affect and thematic material--as if all painted in shades of grey). Which isn't to say they aren't worth hearing, merely that I found a certain level of diminishing returns the more I heard. YMMV, obviously.
I note Sean's comment about the flute concerto--I heard it once on BBC radio and thought it was a fine piece; never had a chance for a second hearing, sadly. As for the first symphony, it's beautiful but ultimately rather dull, and the climactic payoff isn't worth the effort. There is apparently a second symphony, but I've never heard it.
Edit: I knew there was a major work I'd missed out--the song cycle
Bonfire of Snow, based on poems by Alexandr Blok. Definitely one of his best works to my ear.
Quote from: False_Dmitry on July 28, 2010, 04:19:57 AM
One day they might even programme his music, as well as putting up his picture ;)
That would be cool 8) I ain't holding my breath though >:(
Wow! Love returns :-*!
Yes, Denisov works can blur, and yes, his "motto" theme is pervasive, and yes, I think anyone might find, mmm, let's say, the Symphony (the big one, not either of the Chamber Symphonies) might just have it's longeurs.
But, as was stated, if one is sensitive and open minded to what I consider an extremely nuanced composer (perhaps it is the endless "nuance" that some may find sleepy), I think one will find music that begs to be listened to in the wee hours, when the snow is falling, and one's thoughts turn towards the spiritual battle between light and dark.
Chamber Works:
The main three works are the Piano Qnt., the Clarinet Qnt., and the Flute Qrt. They were all written in the late '80s, and bear all the hallmarks that have been mentioned in earlier posts.
The Cello Sonata, String Trio, Piano Trio, and the other cello, piano, and violin pieces come mostly from the late '60s/early '70s, and are more strictly serialist, though, within that pigeonhole, Denisov certainly distinguishes himself with tight, spunky, and pointal figures.
As far as the Requiem,... can that cd still be got? I thought I scoured all the Amazons with no copies available.
And, that BIS disc is still going for $20 everywhere! >:D
I had both the Erato aaaand Melodiya versions of the Symphony,...ok, maybe even I found it slightly uh at the time; however, it may be time,... which is the version of preference?
The Chamber Symphonies 1-2 have always been on the back burner, but their availability is also questionable (I know, I know,...Olympia and Triton).
Whaaat? I've been writing for 40mins??? :o Gotta go....
I have just heard D's Cello Concerto (1971), and it is quite something. I have always had it on TheList, thinking that it must be some kind of missing link between DSCH and Schnittke, so, I always thought that it would have something different (even though I can sometimes get suspicious about Denisov).
Well, it's nice and dark, with interesting bits for electric guitar and saxophone. It all kind of sounds like DSCH-meets-Lutosl-meets-Penderecki-meets-Schnittke. The elec. guitar is one of its cooler contributions of the HippieEra. All in all, I'm lifting up this 17min. creepshow as one of the Great Russian Concertos.
I also heard the Violin Concerto (1977), with Gideon Kremer. It starts of with a solo violin toccata (kind of like Xenakis in his toccata mode: one figure reiterated without too much variation) over which the orchestra slowly introduces itself. I wasn't too taken with this until it went on for so long that I started noticing Kremer's demonic playing, which is quite something.
The second mvmt. is more like traditional Denisov, though here he is quite creepy, even introducing a children's theme (a la Amityville Horror) that gets raped by the orchestra. This mvmt. comes very close to the macabre/morbid feeling that I've been going on about in the Schoenberg Thread. Denisov surely has that disintegrated, molding societal commentary, the battle between light and dark.
I was really surprised by the VC. Sure, a lot of Denisov has the same, pale, profile, but, as I've just heard, he knows more than one way to skin the BlackCat!
BOTTOM LINE: I didn't really like the Piano Concerto (3mvmt., very typically "agitato" and "tranquillo"), but, the CC and VC fill in crucial aspects of D's personality. I really have to get my hands on a cheap copy of that BIS cd, and Requiem.
bump
Yun and Denisov both wrote two Chamber Symphonies a piece, late in their respective careers. The seem also to follow a similar Late trajectory.
I can't remember the title of a book I read on Shostakovich in which Denisov is interviewed. In that long interview, he's every sentence is full of gossip and dislike of other composers. He was quite a character!
I do enjoy his chamber music though. I think he was a very creative composer. I prefer him over schnittke.
Quote from: Sandra on June 10, 2011, 06:25:38 PM
I can't remember the title of a book I read on Shostakovich in which Denisov is interviewed. In that long interview, he's every sentence is full of gossip and dislike of other composers. He was quite a character!
I do enjoy his chamber music though. I think he was a very creative composer. I prefer him over schnittke.
What do you have?
The only disc I don't have is that Melodiya-looking blue cd of Chamber Works (PQ5, ClQ5, FlQ5),... the samples indicate a close up recording, which doesn't seem to flatter his style (he does need a little 'room')... however, I do enjoy the other misc. Russian-type discs.
Yea on the Schnittke, too. Totally different outlooks.
(funny DSCH stories...)
Quote from: snyprrr on June 11, 2011, 10:01:00 AM
What do you have?
I haven't been buying CDs since 2005. I bought about a 400 CDs between 1998 and 2005. But about 80 percent of them are now on YouTube, with some landscape as their background. Today's it the %80, tomorrow it'll be hundred percent.. So I haven't bothered to take the time to buy and organize CDs, since people are sharing it this way.
So, a lot of chamber music by Denisov is on YouTube, and that's where I listen to them.
Quote from: Sandra on June 11, 2011, 07:07:19 PM
I haven't been buying CDs since 2005. I bought about a 400 CDs between 1998 and 2005. But about 80 percent of them are now on YouTube, with some landscape as their background. Today's it the %80, tomorrow it'll be hundred percent.. So I haven't bothered to take the time to buy and organize CDs, since people are sharing it this way.
So, a lot of chamber music by Denisov is on YouTube, and that's where I listen to them.
Yea, I guess these days 'Waddaya have?' is a relative question. YT certainly is welcome relief to having to Buy-Before-Listen. Whew, THOSE days were rough!
I remember before I met Ebay, I was getting usually only $1-2 trade in on my used cds at the record store,... brrrrr, scary. :o
Quote from: snyprrr on June 11, 2011, 10:01:07 PM
Yea, I guess these days 'Waddaya have?' is a relative question. YT certainly is welcome relief to having to Buy-Before-Listen. Whew, THOSE days were rough!
I remember before I met Ebay, I was getting usually only $1-2 trade in on my used cds at the record store,... brrrrr, scary. :o
Most of all, I am happy that organizing it and finding space for music isn't a problem anymore. I like to keep my room simple and free from clutter.
Works for Chamber Orchestra BIS-518
Concerto for 2 Violas, Harpsichord and String Orchestra (1984)
Chamber Music for Viola, Harpsichord and Strings (1982)
Variations in 'Es ist genug' (1984/86)
Epitaph (1983)
Boy I wish I could get the pics up. >:D Anyhow, this is that BIS cd of Denisov that's been around forever. It sounds to me like a preferable Schnittke,... haha, maybe I've had so many BIS discs over the years, they have a musical 'stamp', haha?
This is all nice and moody, without those hysterical Schnittkean outbursts. It's not a blow-you-away cd, but very nice on a dark and stormy day (though, not too stormy ('never at dusk', haha)).
I think I've reached a peak with Denisov. I'm going to let the Collection marinate a bit, and I'll get back to you. Denisov does come off more and more as a very Bergian Composer, I think.
My problem with later Denisov is that so much of it is endless variations on the same motto theme. It means that for me successive works have a diminishing impact. I still think that Requiem and the viola concerto (also arranged for saxophone) are tremendous works, though (and the BIS disc that snyprr comments on in the previous post is very strong too).
I blow hot and cold on his earlier work. Some of the more dated gestures sound painfully awkward to my ears at least, yet every now and then there's a bona-fide masterpiece like The Sun of the Incas to consider. And while this particular work has, understandably, sometimes been characterised as a Russian Marteau sans maitre, what's even more striking to me are the parallels between its enigmatic last movement and the end of Shostakovich's slightly later 14th symphony.
Quote from: edward on June 16, 2011, 04:12:11 PM
And while this particular work has, understandably, sometimes been characterised as a Russian Marteau sans maitre, what's even more striking to me are the parallels between its enigmatic last movement and the end of Shostakovich's slightly later 14th symphony.
I hear such parallels all over the place. Shostakovich's influence made its way into every piece that I've heard from this composer. And I agree, exhausting the same simple motives in endless variations isn't always successful, especially if the motives themselves are trivial and dull.
A Denisov New Release flew in under the radar, and from Harmonia Mundi no less!:
http://www.amazon.com/Denisov-Chamber-Symphonies-romances-Akhmatova/dp/B007X98RDS/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1359171549&sr=1-1&keywords=denisov
This contains two Song Cycles, and also the 2 Chamber Symphonies, which are nice to have together, making a lot of other cds now obsolete (good news for the Collector). This is a 'Major Denisov Event'!
I was just going over the Denisov Discography, and lamenting that Denisov seems destined for the 'Piece-Meal' Composer category, meaning, there are still not many All-Denisov programs out there.
I was just listening to his late-'70s oboe/harpsichord/cello Trio, an absolutely wonderful expression of Denisov's characteristic late soundworld: the snow and mist was a perfect backdrop to this music as I was driving.
Symphony (large, hour long, encapsulating all of Denisov's concerns with light/good-dark/evil)
Chamber Symphonies 1-2 (much smaller, same general sound)
Violin Concerto (Masterpiece! absolutely beats Schnittke at his game)
Cello Concerto (Masterpiece! with electric guitar, awesome!; also 'Death Is A Long Sleep')
2 Viola Concerto (also two other viola 'concertos'; BIS- these are much more subdued, late style)
Flute Concerto? I suspect all the wind concertos follow the 'late style' lead
Clarinet Concerto
Oboe Concerto*
Saxophone Concerto (plus 'Piccolo Concerto')
Piano Concerto (in my view, the least of the Concertos, energetic though)
Requiem (creepy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjtPg2RN_Hc)
Sun of the Incas (vocal)
La Vin et Rouge (vocal)
Les Pleurs (vocal; with Italian Songs)
2 Cycles on Harmonia Mundi (vocal)
Peinture
Epitaph
Romantic Music
Ode
...other smaller orchestral & chamber pieces...
Piano Quintet**
Clarinet Quintet**
Flute Quartet
(4 Pieces for SQ)?
Piano Trio***
String Trio***
oboe/cello Trio (Masterpiece!; other Trios, unrecorded)***
Cello Sonata (plus other pieces)***
Violin Sonata ( plus 'Solo' & 'Duo')
flute + piano (pretty famous)*** His son plays flute
flute + guitar (pretty famous)***
saxophone + piano (pretty famous)
solo clarinet (pretty famous)**
trombone
trumpet
brass + percussion
Piano Music (the cd of Piano Music is nice; also '4 Hands')***
Denisov starts off with a highly concentrated Wedbernesque languange that peaks in the early '70s. Also, the oratorio 'Sun of the Incas', from the ;60s, is one of the most experimental works of the Denisov-Schnittke-Gubaidulina generation.
Towards the end of the '70s, Denisov hit on a very bleak Impressionism, the sound of overcast skies, coupled with an intense chromaticism manifesting the battle between light and darkness that was at the core of ALL his late works. The net, aural effect is of melting music, the 'light' constantly being 'moved' by the dark forces. Denisov's late music has an ingrained creepy factor that may be disconcerting to some; take care also, for one does not want to overdose on the sound and get a Densiov hangover. I suggest trying the Symphony, or the new Harmonia Mundi disc, or one of the discs that has the Piano & Clarinet Quintets. A lot of the Sonatas appear willy-nilly on a bunch of recital discs, but, his music always graces the programs it is included in: his style can be easily appreciated alongside the company of others (witness the flute/guitar Sonata).
I'm calling Denisov the 'Ultra Chromaticist', the ultimate Scriabinite, the closest Composer in sound to the bleak Victorianisms of Lovecraft.
The disc you mention was one of Fiona Maddocks' discs of the year in The Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/nov/11/denisov-plat-haut-cieux-peyre?INTCMP=SRCH
Quote from: edward on January 26, 2013, 09:30:37 AM
The disc you mention was one of Fiona Maddocks' discs of the year in The Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/nov/11/denisov-plat-haut-cieux-peyre?INTCMP=SRCH
...
gossamer textures... ooooo :o
Quote from: edward on January 26, 2013, 09:30:37 AM
The disc you mention was one of Fiona Maddocks' discs of the year in The Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/nov/11/denisov-plat-haut-cieux-peyre?INTCMP=SRCH
Well, no one else seems to be on the Denisov tip. What do you think of the Symphony?
Quote from: snyprrr on January 27, 2013, 08:26:04 AM
Well, no one else seems to be on the Denisov tip. What do you think of the Symphony?
Meh. Too stagnant for my tastes; though beautiful in places the material is stretched terribly thin--and I've heard the late Denisov motto theme way too often by now. I've not heard the Second Symphony (has it been recorded?) or the Second Chamber Symphony that is on the new disc.
I think my favourite Denisov discs remain the BIS viola/chamber orchestra disc and the Melodiya Musica Non Grata collection featuring
Requiem. The viola/sax concerto I like a lot too--the moment when the textures clear an the celestas introduce the Schubert theme of the finale is extraordinary. I'm also a big fan of the early
Sun of the Incas; calling it the Russian
Marteau is an oversimplification, but it's also as good a description as I can think of.
OK, this may be a dumb question, but...can anybody tell me exactly how many symphonies Denisov composed?
Quote from: BrianSA on May 16, 2013, 05:32:15 PM
OK, this may be a dumb question, but...can anybody tell me exactly how many symphonies Denisov composed?
I thought it was just the one, called,
Symphony.
Then there are
2 Chamber Symphonies.
I am completely unaware of any 2nd Symphony,... Edward??
I don't even think there is a juvenile Symphony...
Quote from: edward on January 27, 2013, 07:35:13 PM
Meh. Too stagnant for my tastes; though beautiful in places the material is stretched terribly thin--and I've heard the late Denisov motto theme way too often by now. I've not heard the Second Symphony (has it been recorded?) or the Second Chamber Symphony that is on the new disc.
I think my favourite Denisov discs remain the BIS viola/chamber orchestra disc and the Melodiya Musica Non Grata collection featuring Requiem. The viola/sax concerto I like a lot too--the moment when the textures clear an the celestas introduce the Schubert theme of the finale is extraordinary. I'm also a big fan of the early Sun of the Incas; calling it the Russian Marteau is an oversimplification, but it's also as good a description as I can think of.
Yea, I know the Symphony is a throbbing pile of dreariness, but, if you have a snowy, misty day, it can't be beat. Yes, Denisov begins to play his two note song (Tranquillo-Agitato) endlessly, but when I NEED grey&dreary, he's one of the few who will do. Even Schnittke has to many things going on for me to wallow in razor blade territory, but Denisov is TOTALLY homogenized into an absinthe hazed stupor.
Ha! So I thought as well. But just within the past week I discovered that there is apparently a second (downloadable, in two different performances no less, here: http://classical-music-online.net/en/production/29664 ).
This happy discovery prompted me to check out the entry on Denisiv on Onno van Rijen's Soviet Composers site (http://home.wanadoo.nl/ovar/denisov.htm ), and this was where things started to get really snakey. Onno's site lists the following quasi-symphonic compositions for Denisov:
Symphony no 1 in C major (1955)
Symphony no 2 for two string orchestras and percussion (1962)
Chamber symphony (1982)
Symphony (1987) (!)
Chamber symphony no 2 (1994)
Symphony no 2 (1996) (!?!)
So, symphonies nos 1 & 2, followed by an unumbered symphony (the piece we know as "Denisov'symphony"), followed by a second second symphony (the piece for which I gave the download link above), with two chamber symphonies interspersed. So you see, perhaps, why I'm confused...
I even considered the possibility that there might be some kind of formatting error leading to some kind of repetition or inadverent mis-insertion, but this doesn't really appear to be the case...
So can anybody shed any light on this? Are we talking about two withdrawn/disowned/destroyed early symphonies? And if not what's with the carazy numbering? As peculiar and confusing as anything William Schuman or Allan Pettersson could come up with... ???
Quote from: BrianSA on May 18, 2013, 08:09:40 AM
Ha! So I thought as well. But just within the past week I discovered that there is apparently a second (downloadable, in two different performances no less, here: http://classical-music-online.net/en/production/29664 ).
This happy discovery prompted me to check out the entry on Denisiv on Onno van Rijen's Soviet Composers site (http://home.wanadoo.nl/ovar/denisov.htm ), and this was where things started to get really snakey. Onno's site lists the following quasi-symphonic compositions for Denisov:
Symphony no 1 in C major (1955)
Symphony no 2 for two string orchestras and percussion (1962)
Chamber symphony (1982)
Symphony (1987) (!)
Chamber symphony no 2 (1994)
Symphony no 2 (1996) (!?!)
So, symphonies nos 1 & 2, followed by an unumbered symphony (the piece we know as "Denisov'symphony"), followed by a second second symphony (the piece for which I gave the download link above), with two chamber symphonies interspersed. So you see, perhaps, why I'm confused...
I even considered the possibility that there might be some kind of formatting error leading to some kind of repetition or inadverent mis-insertion, but this doesn't really appear to be the case...
So can anybody shed any light on this? Are we talking about two withdrawn/disowned/destroyed early symphonies? And if not what's with the carazy numbering? As peculiar and confusing as anything William Schuman or Allan Pettersson could come up with... ???
Surely then the first two are withdrawn. Everything else is as we know it (except for this new discovery). Huh! Well! I guess we'll have to have a listen, won't we? Can one make a cd-r from that?
It's definitely light Denisov weather here today!
Really, has anyone heard the oboe-harpsichord-cello Trio (Berlin Classics)? This is early Late Denisov, all the markers, but it is just sooo hazy and EA Poe-ish. At a good 1/2 hour, it must be his longest chamber work (that I know of). Wow, I'm building up a little Denisov froth this morning!!
Quote from: BrianSA on May 18, 2013, 08:09:40 AM
Ha! So I thought as well. But just within the past week I discovered that there is apparently a second (downloadable, in two different performances no less, here: http://classical-music-online.net/en/production/29664 ).
Thanks for this; it's a very interesting piece. The same motto theme and compositional techniques as almost all of his post-
Requiem work, but this time he lets the harmonic tension burst through to the surface in violent, angry fortissimo passages (and very organically it does so too; his control of tension is impressive here). It is very satisfying to hear late Denisov with fire in its belly, as for all its beauties I find much of his late work terribly grey and monotonous; if there are more works like this I'd really like to hear them.
Quote from: edward on May 19, 2013, 11:58:49 AM
for all its beauties I find much of his late work terribly grey and monotonous
That's why only Denisov will do when the weather looks like EA Poe! Yes, Late Denisov does not work on a sunny spring day!
Quote from: kyjo on October 13, 2013, 05:33:35 PM
A friend of mine who shares very similar musical tastes recommended to me Edison Denisov's Symphony, which he called a "masterpiece". Anyone familiar with it, or any of Denisov's music for that matter? It's available on this CD:
Oddly, while I've never heard any of them, I have scores of several Denisov pieces, including the regular Symphony as well as the two Chamber Symphonies,
The Sun of the Incas and other works.
From leafing through the Symphony, it looks long and rambly in a Schnittke-Pettersson-Silvestrovy sort of way, although somewhat more "freely atonal" in language. I'm not particularly tempted to listen to it myself, but it might be just the sort of thing for a particularly gloomy, rainy day sometime. Cf. quotes above. ;)
Quote from: amw on October 13, 2013, 07:23:50 PM
Oddly, while I've never heard any of them, I have scores of several Denisov pieces, including the regular Symphony as well as the two Chamber Symphonies, The Sun of the Incas and other works.
From leafing through the Symphony, it looks long and rambly in a Schnittke-Pettersson-Silvestrovy sort of way, although somewhat more "freely atonal" in language. I'm not particularly tempted to listen to it myself, but it might be just the sort of thing for a particularly gloomy, rainy day sometime. Cf. quotes above. ;)
Thanks for your reply, amw! Yes, I've read that Denisov often employs "free atonality" in his music-not a concept I'm too fond of, but it won't keep me from checking out his music. Schnittke, Pettersson and Silvestrov are all composers whose music my gloomy self enjoys, so the comparison you make to their music is intriguing. I'm going to browse YouTube to see if there might be any Densiov works of interest I could sample there. :)
Quote from: amw on October 13, 2013, 07:23:50 PM
Oddly, while I've never heard any of them, I have scores of several Denisov pieces, including the regular Symphony as well as the two Chamber Symphonies, The Sun of the Incas and other works.
From leafing through the Symphony, it looks long and rambly in a Schnittke-Pettersson-Silvestrovy sort of way, although somewhat more "freely atonal" in language. I'm not particularly tempted to listen to it myself, but it might be just the sort of thing for a particularly gloomy, rainy day sometime. Cf. quotes above. ;)
Quote from: kyjo on October 14, 2013, 03:02:25 AM
Thanks for your reply, amw! Yes, I've read that Denisov often employs "free atonality" in his music-not a concept I'm too fond of, but it won't keep me from checking out his music. Schnittke, Pettersson and Silvestrov are all composers whose music my gloomy self enjoys, so the comparison you make to their music is intriguing. I'm going to browse YouTube to see if there might be any Densiov works of interest I could sample there. :)
I wouldn't mind getting that Barenboim Symphony (Erato) again. I'd say it's almost like Penderecki's 'Christmas' Symphony in its organic and dreary demeanor. I do look forward to the wintry day the Symphony could work wonders!
Someone might enjoy that
recent HarmoniaMundi release rather than the Symphony proper. Same basic situation, but perhaps with more variety?
On him and Slonimsky
(https://sun9-54.userapi.com/impg/T2yEtsljc1ANDiugKT9P3qzuLgROjn-3NDK7xA/A0y1IKW1Yjw.jpg?size=600x859&quality=95&sign=b993c50f7a352a02d6c1ab0e1ea5f719&type=album)