Missing Members

[Brian]

(moderator hat off)

That summary does not seem entirely fair. Someone has just given an entire suite of reasons for banning him, and you have dismissed it as a "claim" and then said "none of us know." Your presentation is a little bit of "counsel for the defense," which is fine, so long as you know it is. 

(moderator hat on)

1. Without saying specifically what may have happened with deprofundis (it was before my time and I don't know if the other mods would like to publicize it yet), yes, we do delete the most egregious violations of the rules, so yes, the "evidence" will be missing later. Which ties in with...

2. If there is a broad forum consensus for greater transparency about some of these decisions, we will discuss that, weigh pros and cons, and get wisdom from the previous cohort of mods. Obviously, here, I see one "pro," which is the confusion that may arise when people don't know why actions were taken. Historically, the argument against this is we generally try to take mod actions behind the scenes out of respect for the users, their privacy, their reputation, and their dignity. We would not want a "public hanging" atmosphere. Spotted Horses summarizes it well. But if a whole lot of people think the balance could be moved one direction or another, we are happy to listen.

[Mandryka]

2. If there is a broad forum consensus for greater transparency about some of these decisions, we will discuss that, weigh pros and cons, and get wisdom from the previous cohort of mods. Obviously, here, I see one "pro," which is the confusion that may arise when people don't know why actions were taken. Historically, the argument against this is we generally try to take mod actions behind the scenes out of respect for the users, their privacy, their reputation, and their dignity. We would not want a "public hanging" atmosphere.

I think that a public hanging is to be avoided at all costs.

As far as I remember  he was banned just before the previous moderators all resigned. Maybe it would be a good idea if the new team look at what happened privately, and reassure themselves that a fair decision was made by the old team. If a mistake was made, it's easily rectified and everyone knows that to err is human. If it was a sound decision, then so be it.

[Karl Henning]

The moderators have given some information as to why he was banned. We are not privy to the details obviously, but it would not be reasonable to expect the moderators to publish this sort of data.

Such communication as the mods have offered, I consider in light of communal courtesy, and no, the owner and mods should not, cannot do a Wikileaks-style dump.

[Karl Henning]

As far as I remember  he was banned just before the previous moderators all resigned. Maybe it would be a good idea if the new team look at what happened privately, and reassure themselves that a fair decision was made by the old team. If a mistake was made, it's easily rectified and everyone knows that to err is human. If it was a sound decision, then so be it.

There is no reason in the least to suppose that the previous slate of mods acted at all otherwise than in good faith and with as much consideration of and courtesy toward anyone, really, as possible.

[Florestan]

I'm sure that the decision to ban deprofundis was taken in good faith after careful consideration and only as a last resort. Yet I'm in the same league as Mandryka and Spotted Horses, in that I've never seen one single offensive or aggressive post of his. In my case, it could be that the delay in time zone made the difference: those posts were deleted while I was sleeping.

[Traverso]

I'm sure that the decision to ban deprofundis was taken in good faith after careful consideration and only as a last resort. Yet I'm in the same league as Mandryka and Spotted Horses, in that I've never seen one single offensive or aggressive post of his. In my case, it could be that the delay in time zone made the difference: those posts were deleted while I was sleeping.

I assume that the moderators discussed this with each other and how to solve this situation and ultimately saw no other option than a ban. I see no reason to suspect the moderators who made this decision of acting lightly.

[Florestan]

I assume that the moderators discussed this with each other and how to solve this situation and ultimately saw no other option than a ban. I see no reason to suspect the moderators who made this decision of acting lightly.

Oh, of course, I have no doubts about any of the above points and I do not question even for a second the good faith of the mods. It's just that I feel a real pitty for deprofundis, he is obviously a deeply tortured soul for whom music and talking about it is a great solace and comfort. If only he could have limited himself to that...

[Traverso]

Oh, of course, I have no doubts about any of the above points and I do not question even for a second the good faith of the mods. It's just that I feel a real pitty for deprofundis, he is obviously a deeply tortured soul for whom music and talking about it is a great solace and comfort. If only he could have limited himself to that...

Sad and true.....

[vandermolen]

Sad and true.....

Very much agree. I had some v nice personal exchanges with DP (CD recommendations etc) - it is a sad situation - although I respect the decision of the moderators.

[kyjo]

Hi everyone, I haven't been very active here recently, but I just wanted to say that the forum just doesn't feel the same without John (Mirror Image) and Cesar (Lovfald, formerly SymphonicAddict) around anymore. And I'm saddened to read about the drama that recently unfolded with absolutelybaching - I do wish we could all just get along! Us classical music enthusiasts are such a small group in society and we have much more in common than we have differences - so it's pointless for us to be bickering amongst each other. To be honest, the fact that valuable members are constantly leaving this site has been discouraging me from posting more often recently. But I'm still around listening to as much great music as always, and I'll try to drop by the forum whenever I feel compelled.

[Karl Henning]

Hi everyone, I haven't been very active here recently, but I just wanted to say that the forum just doesn't feel the same without John (Mirror Image) and Cesar (Lovfald, formerly SymphonicAddict) around anymore. And I'm saddened to read about the drama that recently unfolded with absolutelybaching - I do wish we could all just get along! Us classical music enthusiasts are such a small group in society and we have much more in common than we have differences - so it's pointless for us to be bickering amongst each other. To be honest, the fact that valuable members are constantly leaving this site has been discouraging me from posting more often recently. But I'm still around listening to as much great music as always, and I'll try to drop by the forum whenever I feel compelled.

Don't be a stranger, Kyle!

[Spotted Horses]

Hi everyone, I haven't been very active here recently, but I just wanted to say that the forum just doesn't feel the same without John (Mirror Image) and Cesar (Lovfald, formerly SymphonicAddict) around anymore. And I'm saddened to read about the drama that recently unfolded with absolutelybaching - I do wish we could all just get along! Us classical music enthusiasts are such a small group in society and we have much more in common than we have differences - so it's pointless for us to be bickering amongst each other. To be honest, the fact that valuable members are constantly leaving this site has been discouraging me from posting more often recently. But I'm still around listening to as much great music as always, and I'll try to drop by the forum whenever I feel compelled.

I hadn't noticed the Lovfald/SymphonicAddict had left.

I happened to notice that Mirror Image got banned at TC (as well as that other forum he said he was decamping for). Maybe be will be back, since it is extremely hard to get banned here.

[Que]

I hadn't noticed the Lovfald/SymphonicAddict had left.

I happened to notice that Mirror Image got banned at TC (as well as that other forum he said he was decamping for). Maybe be will be back, since it is extremely hard to get banned here.

So we would be 3rd choice? That's uplifting... 

[classicalgeek]

Hi everyone, I haven't been very active here recently, but I just wanted to say that the forum just doesn't feel the same without John (Mirror Image) and Cesar (Lovfald, formerly SymphonicAddict) around anymore. And I'm saddened to read about the drama that recently unfolded with absolutelybaching - I do wish we could all just get along! Us classical music enthusiasts are such a small group in society and we have much more in common than we have differences - so it's pointless for us to be bickering amongst each other. To be honest, the fact that valuable members are constantly leaving this site has been discouraging me from posting more often recently. But I'm still around listening to as much great music as always, and I'll try to drop by the forum whenever I feel compelled.

Well said, Kyle - I had nothing but positive interactions with both John and Cesar, and I miss them now that they're gone. Their taste in music largely matched mine (as does yours! ) so that was the starting point for many conversations. I didn't interact much with Howard/absolutelybaching, but he was really knowledgeable and passionate. And I'll second what you say about us classical music fanatics being so few - this is the only place where I've found so many like-minded people (at least as far as our taste in music is concerned), and it really saddens me when someone feels compelled to leave. I try to be courteous and kind to everyone on the forum, whether I agree or disagree with their opinions; when I step out of line, I apologize; and above all, I try my best to respect and value everyone. Like you said, we have so much in common...

[Franco_Manitobain]

I happened to notice that Mirror Image got banned at TC

Temporary ban.

[vandermolen]

Hi everyone, I haven't been very active here recently, but I just wanted to say that the forum just doesn't feel the same without John (Mirror Image) and Cesar (Lovfald, formerly SymphonicAddict) around anymore. And I'm saddened to read about the drama that recently unfolded with absolutelybaching - I do wish we could all just get along! Us classical music enthusiasts are such a small group in society and we have much more in common than we have differences - so it's pointless for us to be bickering amongst each other. To be honest, the fact that valuable members are constantly leaving this site has been discouraging me from posting more often recently. But I'm still around listening to as much great music as always, and I'll try to drop by the forum whenever I feel compelled.

I hope that you stay put Kyle. I also had v good relations with John (MI) and Cesar (SA etc) and regret their disappearance as well as that of 'Absolutely Baching' (great name).

[vandermolen]

Well said, Kyle - I had nothing but positive interactions with both John and Cesar, and I miss them now that they're gone. Their taste in music largely matched mine (as does yours! ) so that was the starting point for many conversations. I didn't interact much with Howard/absolutelybaching, but he was really knowledgeable and passionate. And I'll second what you say about us classical music fanatics being so few - this is the only place where I've found so many like-minded people (at least as far as our taste in music is concerned), and it really saddens me when someone feels compelled to leave. I try to be courteous and kind to everyone on the forum, whether I agree or disagree with their opinions; when I step out of line, I apologize; and above all, I try my best to respect and value everyone. Like you said, we have so much in common...

Totally agree with you James. I think that the problem with these type of forums is that written communication can easily be misconstrued, as the tone of a message may, for example, come across as more belligerent than intended. That's why I've enjoyed the periodic face to face group meetings organised by Karl and, more recently, Larry because then you get a sense of what the complete person is like.

[Mandryka]

There's a lot of research about this sort of thing. In real life it's possible to avoid conflict by just not mixing with people whom you don't like. People in real life tend to have a milieu made up of similar types. But online, on a public forum, you find yourself rubbing shoulders with the sort of people you'd avoid if it were not virtual. And people find it hard to manage that situation.

Speaking personally, there are people I meet online, here and elsewhere, whose manner I don't care for. I don't have a big problem about it because I am able to ignore them, not with ignore buttons or anything like that - I just pass over their posts. Let them carry on being themselves, it's water off a duck's back to me. I recommend that strategy.

(Everyone will now ignore this!)

As far as the small number of people is concerned, that's fine by me. I mean, it's just the nature of conversations about pretty recherché topics.

[vandermolen]

'Sorry vandermolen you are banned from using this forum'

So, I am about to become a reluctant 'missing member'.

Any explanations please?

I can only think that I am being banned because of:

1) My failure to always complete the 'WHY DID YOU EDIT YOUR POST?' directive.

2) My zero response Eurovision song contest thread

3) Going 'over the top' about British Music

4) Over enthusiasm about Klaus Egge

5) Rambling on about Miaskovsky

Answers on a postcard please as this may be the only way of contacting me     

[Florestan]

'Sorry vandermolen you are banned from using this forum'

So, I am about to become a reluctant 'missing member'.

Any explanations please?

I can only think that I am being banned because of:

1) My failure to always complete the 'WHY DID YOU EDIT YOUR POST?' directive.

2) My zero response Eurovision song contest thread

3) Going 'over the top' about British Music

4) Over enthusiasm about Klaus Egge

5) Rambling on about Miaskovsky

Answers on a postcard please as this may be the only way of contacting me     

I too received that message a few months ago, several tines. Don't worry, Jeffrey, it's just a mysterious bug.