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The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: vandermolen on April 19, 2007, 03:30:33 AM

Title: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: vandermolen on April 19, 2007, 03:30:33 AM
I thought that Sir Granville Bantock (1868-1946) deserved a thread of his own.  I was just listening to Langgaard's Fourth Symphony (his best in my view) and a section reminded me of another composer and I realised it was Bantock's Hebridean Symphony (not that Langgaard could have heard it).

Bantock's Celtic, Hebridean and Pagan symphonies are all fine works.  I believe that he is a genuinely undeservedly neglected composer (like Langgaard), although both composers are now well represented on CD.

Any views on Bantock?
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Catison on April 19, 2007, 05:28:49 AM
I love Bantock, but what the hell is a bouncy-room?  Maybe bath house, bar room, brothel, boat house, band hall, or break room.  Bantock's music is never bouncy.  It is always very sweet and thick.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on April 19, 2007, 05:33:29 AM
I love Bantock, but what the hell is a bouncy-room?  Maybe bath house, bar room, brothel, boat house, band hall, or break room.  Bantock's music is never bouncy.  It is always very sweet and thick.

An excellent point! I've changed the title. Don't think Sir Granville would have liked "brothel" ;D
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Harry on April 19, 2007, 06:05:02 AM
I have almost all the Hyperion recordings, and with reason, for his music is not only very accessible, but also highly melodic and mysterious. Bantock's thick scoring can be a problem with bad recordings, but in the case of the Hyperion recordings that is no problem.
He is much underrated.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on April 19, 2007, 06:37:50 AM
I have almost all the Hyperion recordings, and with reason, for his music is not only very accessible, but also highly melodic and mysterious. Bantock's thick scoring can be a problem with bad recordings, but in the case of the Hyperion recordings that is no problem.
He is much underrated.

Totally agree. I have all the Hyperions+an interesting BBC Radio Classics CD of Edward Downes doing the Pagan Symphony and an even more obscure CD with Boult performing the Hebridean Symphony with the BBC Scottish SO (Intaglio CD)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Hector on April 20, 2007, 05:01:03 AM
Great stuff heavily influenced by Tchaikovsky, sometimes more obvious than not.

We are promised a complete recording of 'Song of Songs' are we not?

The Pagan symphony for newbies and I always recommend that it is played loudly so that others can appreciate the composer's qualities!

He fell out of favour because he was considered out of date. Nowadays he sounds just fine.

A great find and thoroughly enjoyable.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on April 20, 2007, 10:35:41 PM
He will be BBC Radio 3 Composer of the Week soon. One of my work colleagues conducted some of his choral music for the programme.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: tjguitar on May 04, 2007, 01:57:48 PM
Just a heads-up for everyone, I just saw a bunch of the Hyperion Bantock CDs at broinc.com for only $6.99 (list price at amazon is $21.98.  I ordered Pagan Symphony from there months ago but they didn't have any of the other ones.  Finally get to here the Celtic Symphony that everyone raves about.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: tjguitar on May 17, 2007, 04:10:28 PM
I heard Chandos is releasing the complete Omar Khayyam w/ Handley and the BBC Symphony on 3 discs this fall.....Nice to see Handley is continuing to record Bantock, even though the Hyperion series seems to have ended....
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on May 19, 2007, 02:51:05 AM
I heard Chandos is releasing the complete Omar Khayyam w/ Handley and the BBC Symphony on 3 discs this fall.....Nice to see Handley is continuing to record Bantock, even though the Hyperion series seems to have ended....

That's v exciting news. Bantock is a significant figure, undesrevedly neglected. The Pagan, Hebriddean and celtic symphonies are great works, as is Symphony 3 "The Cyprian Goddess"
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Montpellier on July 01, 2007, 12:39:49 AM
My introduction to this composer was Beecham's Fifine - very nice and somehow I've grown attached to this version against a more modern one I'm almost sure is on one of the Hyperion discs. 
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Hector on July 02, 2007, 06:19:40 AM
My introduction to this composer was Beecham's Fifine - very nice and somehow I've grown attached to this version against a more modern one I'm almost sure is on one of the Hyperion discs. 

It is. Handley conducts and restores the cuts that Beecham made.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Thom on July 06, 2007, 01:10:47 AM
Marvellous music!

(http://shop.castleclassics.co.uk/acatalog/66450.jpg)

This one is a nice introduction, i think.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Mark on July 06, 2007, 01:52:44 AM
Marvellous music!

(http://shop.castleclassics.co.uk/acatalog/66450.jpg)

This one is a nice introduction, i think.

Heartily seconded. The Celtic Symphony in particular is a stunner.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on July 06, 2007, 06:06:43 AM
Heartily seconded. The Celtic Symphony in particular is a stunner.

best ever Bantock CD
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: tjguitar on August 31, 2007, 09:11:35 AM
New Bantock CD.  Anyone have it?


(http://www.chandos.co.uk/hiresart/CHSA%205051.jpg)


    Omar Khayyam    171:31
               The Ruba'iyat according to Edward Fitzgerald set to Music    
               for Three Solo Voices, Chorus, and Orchestra in Three Parts    
                  
               Principals:    
               The Beloved - Contralto    
               The Poet - Tenor    
               The Philosopher - Baritone    
               Chorus    
                  
               COMPACT DISC ONE    
               Part I (beginning)    
1       [Prelude -]    5:54
2       Chorus: 'Wake! For the Sun, who scattered into flight' -    2:08
3       Chorus: 'Before the phantom of false morning died' -    2:28
4       The Poet: 'And as the cock crew, those who stood before' -    2:20
5       The Poet: 'Now the new year reviving old desires' -    1:45
6       The Poet: 'Iram indeed is gone with all his rose' -    2:25
7       Chorus: 'Whether at Naishápúr or Babylon' -    2:14
8       The Beloved: 'Each morn a thousand roses brings, you say' -    1:34
9       The Poet: 'With me along the strip of herbage strown' -    6:49
10       Chorus: 'Some for the glories of this world; and some' -    2:06
11       The Beloved: 'Look to the blowing Rose about us - 'Lo''' -    1:32
12       Chorus: 'Think, in this battered caravanserai' -    2:09
13       The Poet: 'I sometimes think that never blows so red' -    1:59
14       The Poet: 'Ah, my Beloved, fill the cup that clears' -    1:55
15       Chorus: 'Ah, make the most of what we yet may spend' -    2:57
16       The Beloved: 'Alike for those who for To-day prepare' -    2:46
17       The Philosopher: 'Myself when young did eagerly frequent' -    2:33
18       Chorus: 'What, without asking, hither hurried Whence?' -    1:21
19       The Poet: 'Up from earth's centre through the seventh gate' -    2:51
20       Chorus: 'Earth could not answer; nor the seas that mourn' -    2:25
21       The Poet: 'Then of THEE IN ME who works behind' -    0:52
22       The Poet: 'Then to the lip of this poor earthen urn' -    2:34
23       The Philosopher: 'I think the vessel, that with fugitive'    2:23
                  58:14
               COMPACT DISC TWO    
               Part I (conclusion)    
1       The Beloved: 'As then the tulip for her morning sup' -    3:39
2       The Beloved: 'So when that Angel of the darker drink' -    2:18
3       Chorus: ''Tis but a tent where takes his one day's rest' -    2:32
4       The Beloved and the Poet: 'When you and I behind the veil are past' -    4:01
5       [Interlude:] The Desert -    1:35
6       The Caravan -    2:58
7       Chorus: 'A moment's halt - a momentary taste' -    3:35
8       The Philosopher: 'Would you that spangle of Existence spend' -    2:37
9       The Philosopher: 'A moment guessed - then back behind the fold' -    2:34
10       Chorus: 'Waste not your hour, nor in the vain pursuit' -    4:09
11       Chorus: 'Better be jocund with the fruitful grape'    2:59
                  
               Part II    
12       The Philosopher: 'You know, my Friends, with what a brave carouse' -    2:11
13       The Philosopher: 'Ah, but my computations, people say' -    1:40
14       The Philosopher and Chorus: 'and 'twas - the Grape!' -    2:42
               Chorus: 'The Grape that can with logic absolute' -    
15       Chorus: 'The mighty Mahmúd, Allah-breathing Lord' -    3:38
16       The Philosopher: 'Why, be this Juice the growth of God, who dare' -    1:29
17       The Philosopher: 'I must abjure the Balm of Life, I must' -    1:42
18       Chorus: 'Oh threats of Hell and hopes of Paradise!' -    3:17
19       Chorus: 'The Revelation of devout and learn'd' -    1:47
20       Chorus: 'We are no other than a moving row' -    3:19
21       The Beloved: 'The Moving finger writes; and, having writ' -    1:41
22       The Beloved and the Poet: 'And that inverted bowl we call the sky' -    1:36
23       The Poet: 'With Earth's first clay they did the last man knead' -    2:10
24       The Philosopher: 'I tell you this - when, started from the goal' -    3:30
25       The Beloved, the Poet and the Philosopher: 'What! out of senseless Nothing to provoke' -    4:41
26       Chorus, the Beloved, the Poet and the Philosopher: 'Oh Thou, who didst with pitfall and with gin' -    1:46
27       Chorus, the Beloved, the Poet and the Philospher: 'Oh Thou, who Man of baser earth didst make'    2:36
                  73:08
               COMPACT DISC THREE    
               Part III    
1       Introduction 'The Fast of Ramazán' -    2:47
2       Worshippers in the Mosque -    4:10
3       The Philosopher: 'As under cover of departing day' -    1:00
4       Chorus: 'Shapes of all sorts and sizes, great and small' -    2:07
5       First Pot: 'Said one among them - 'Surely not in vain'' -    6:36
6       Chorus: 'So while the vessels one by one were speaking' -    1:55
7       The Philosopher: 'Ah, with the grape my fading life provide' -    2:26
8       The Philosopher: 'Indeed the idol I have loved so long' -    1:48
9       The Philosopher: 'And much as wine has play'd the infidel' -    2:14
10       The Poet: 'Yet ah, that Spring should vanish with the rose!' -    2:35
11       The Poet: 'Would but the desert of the fountain yield' -    6:34
12       Chorus, the Beloved, the Poet and the Philosopher: 'Yon rising moon that looks for us again' -    1:33
13       Chorus, the Beloved, the Poet and the Philosopher: 'And when like her, oh Sáki, you shall pass'    4:15
                  40:09
    Catherine Wyn-Rogers mezzo-soprano
    Toby Spence tenor
    Roderick Williams baritone
               with    
    Olivia Robinson soprano (First Pot)
    Siân Menna mezzo-soprano (Second Pot)
    Edward Price bass (Sixth Pot)
    BBC Symphony Chorus
    BBC Symphony Orchestra
    Vernon Handley
    Recorded in:
    Watford Colosseum
               1 and 2 October 2005 & 17 and 18 February 2007    
    Producer(s)
    Brian Couzens
    Sound Engineer(s)
    Ralph Couzens
    Michael Common (Assistant: October 2005)
    Jonathan Cooper (Assistant: February 2007)
    Format: DDD
Bit Rate: DSD
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Dundonnell on August 31, 2007, 11:32:56 AM
Have just had "Omar Khayyam" delivered to me! Have yet to listen to it though-3 discs will need a lengthy bit of free time!
Will post again once I have done so
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: sound67 on September 01, 2007, 12:27:23 AM
Marvellous music!

(http://shop.castleclassics.co.uk/acatalog/66450.jpg)

This one is a nice introduction, i think.

I agree it's the perfect start. It was for me fifteen years ago.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on September 01, 2007, 04:41:25 AM
Have just listened to first part of Omar Khayyam; wonderful epic stuff for those, like myself, who like to wallow in late-romanticism. I thought that it might be heavy going but, so far, I have regarded it as compulsive listening, although it will take a while to take all 3 hours of it in. The booklet presentation (excellent notes by Lewis Foreman and many old photos of Bantock) is excellent as is the atmospheric camel image on the front.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: tjguitar on September 01, 2007, 08:36:21 AM
Have just listened to first part of Omar Khayyam; wonderful epic stuff for those, like myself, who like to wallow in late-romanticism. I thought that it might be heavy going but, so far, I have regarded it as compulsive listening, although it will take a while to take all 3 hours of it in. The booklet presentation (excellent notes by Lewis Foreman and many old photos of Bantock) is excellent as is the atmospheric camel image on the front.


I think there's still another 6 weeks or so before it gets distributed to the US. I wonder what the MSRP will be. I suspect it will not be very cheap.

How much of it utilizes the chorus?
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: The new erato on September 01, 2007, 08:41:39 AM
Very good price on this at www.europadisc.co.uk
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on September 01, 2007, 11:22:40 AM

I think there's still another 6 weeks or so before it gets distributed to the US. I wonder what the MSRP will be. I suspect it will not be very cheap.

How much of it utilizes the chorus?

Most of it uses the chorus although there are some orchestral interludes and an atmospheric and haunting orchestral Prelude. I managed to get a copy for £25 (MDT) in the UK. It is nothing like Alan Hovhaness's "The Rubiyat"!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: tjguitar on September 01, 2007, 12:06:05 PM
Most of it uses the chorus although there are some orchestral interludes and an atmospheric and haunting orchestral Prelude. I managed to get a copy for £25 (MDT) in the UK. It is nothing like Alan Hovhaness's "The Rubiyat"!


I think I have the Prelude on one of the Hyperion Bantock CDs.



Amazon.com is showing a $49.98 MSRP, Oct 23 release date.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: head-case on September 01, 2007, 08:56:59 PM
That's v exciting news. Bantock is a significant figure, undesrevedly neglected. The Pagan, Hebriddean and celtic symphonies are great works, as is Symphony 3 "The Cyprian Goddess"

Having heard a few discs from the hyperion series I came the conclusion that Bantok is deservedly neglected.  The obsession with the "exotic" to me smacks of typical British colonialism, and I found his works more full of bombast than music.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on September 02, 2007, 12:56:53 AM
Having heard a few discs from the hyperion series I came the conclusion that Bantok is deservedly neglected.  The obsession with the "exotic" to me smacks of typical British colonialism, and I found his works more full of bombast than music.


I can see why you think that but I believe that the Celtic, Hebriddean and Pagan symphonies are fine, atmospheric and, in the case of the Celtic, moving works which deserve greater exposure.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: sound67 on September 02, 2007, 03:27:23 AM
The obsession with the "exotic" to me smacks of typical British colonialism

A political argument. Awww, well ...

Quote
... and I found his works more full of bombast than music.

With reference to the works listed above, this is definitely wrong.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on September 02, 2007, 03:48:29 AM
"Bantock was noted for his liberal views, and is reputed to have been the first British academic to have attended a faculty meeting dressed in corduroys!" (Lewis Foreman-notes for Hyperion CD Thalaba the Destroyer).
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: sound67 on September 02, 2007, 03:52:39 AM
"Bantock was noted for his liberal views, and is reputed to have been the first British academic to have attended a faculty meeting dressed in corduroys!" (Lewis Foreman-notes for Hyperion CD Thalaba the Destroyer).

Indeed so. BTW, the last-mentioned work is one of the weakest in Bantock's oeuvre.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Hector on September 03, 2007, 04:58:14 AM
Having heard a few discs from the hyperion series I came the conclusion that Bantok is deservedly neglected.  The obsession with the "exotic" to me smacks of typical British colonialism, and I found his works more full of bombast than music.


You should try listening without your head in a case :(

As for the new Chandos, it is three expensive CDs and will have to wait. Christmas, perhaps.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: head-case on September 03, 2007, 06:45:28 AM
I can see why you think that but I believe that the Celtic, Hebriddean and Pagan symphonies are fine, atmospheric and, in the case of the Celtic, moving works which deserve greater exposure.
Actually, you have reminded me that I did find the Celtic pleasant and authentic in feel.  It is the "oriental" works that strike me as typically British colonial condescension.
 
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on September 03, 2007, 07:17:57 AM
Actually, you have reminded me that I did find the Celtic pleasant and authentic in feel.  It is the "oriental" works that strike me as typically British colonial condescension.
 

I think that Bantock was fascinated by the Arab world and learnt Persian and Arabic as far as I know. When he died, a book in Persian was found by his bedside. Bantock was apparently liberal in his beliefs and it may be that he had a genuine fascination with that part of the world (presumably a significant contrast to Birmingham, where Bantock was based in the UK!) which went beyond "British colonial condescension" This is not to say that such a fascination does not involve an element of condescension but maybe that does not tell us the whole story.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: sound67 on September 03, 2007, 11:52:17 AM
It is the "oriental" works that strike me as typically British colonial condescension.

Don't be so narrowminded as to drag in supposed political beliefs into matters they have nothing to do with - namely musical enjoyment.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Lethevich on September 03, 2007, 12:57:00 PM
[My first ever "God, that post I made ages ago was embarassing, I'll delete it", and hopefully my last.]
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: head-case on September 03, 2007, 03:21:21 PM
Don't be so narrowminded as to drag in supposed political beliefs into matters they have nothing to do with - namely musical enjoyment.
If the musical enjoyment were working the social objection would be moot.  Bantock strikes me as Elgar with a thin veneer of oriental ludeness and sensuality.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Grazioso on September 04, 2007, 02:24:05 AM
Quote
It is the "oriental" works that strike me as typically British colonial condescension.

Orientalism and colonialism are both far more complex subjects than you seem to imply--indeed, there's a cottage industry of scholarship on those topics if you choose to read up on them--so I'd be careful of sloppily tarring a large group of people with that particular brush.

Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: sound67 on September 04, 2007, 08:35:59 AM
Bantock strikes me as Elgar with a thin veneer of oriental ludeness and sensuality.

Doesn't sound bad at all.  ;D

BTW: The "social" point is ALWAYS a moot point when it comes to art.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: The new erato on September 10, 2007, 09:50:23 AM
Hyperions Bantock releases have now been issued as an 6CD budget box.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: tjguitar on September 10, 2007, 09:55:50 AM
Hyperions Bantock releases have now been issued as an 6CD budget box.


I havent seen anything about this on hyperions site?


nevermind I found it:


$75 US
£43 UK

http://www.amazon.com/Orchestral-Music-Bantock/dp/B000VR055C

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Orchestral-Music-Bantock/dp/B000VR055C
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: The new erato on September 10, 2007, 10:58:14 AM
Lesson:ALWAYS read the newpre release listings at mdt.co.uk....they are quite comprehensive, and speedily updated (som you may have to scan through them every few day until they are finalized).
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: tjguitar on September 10, 2007, 11:03:51 AM
Lesson:ALWAYS read the newpre release listings at mdt.co.uk....they are quite comprehensive, and speedily updated (som you may have to scan through them every few day until they are finalized).

when I click view more info about that release it takes me to a 404.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Hector on September 12, 2007, 03:11:17 AM
Lesson:ALWAYS read the newpre release listings at mdt.co.uk....they are quite comprehensive, and speedily updated (som you may have to scan through them every few day until they are finalized).

That's true and they email the Newsletter to me as a frequent buyer, I suppopse.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: tjguitar on September 25, 2007, 08:10:19 PM
Here's a review:

http://musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2007/Sept07/Bantock_Omar_Khayyam_CHSA5051.htm


There's also a comment by Michael Freeman:


Quote
Chandos have seen fit to issue what they call a premiere recording of Granville Bantock's Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam. As one whose name appears on the list of sponsors of that venture I would like to make it clear that, having heard the Chandos discs, I can no longer support what is a castrated, malformed presentation of this beautifully proportioned score. Nine quatrains and the prelude to part two have been omitted in an unmusical act of vandalism.


Interesting.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Montpellier on September 26, 2007, 03:10:07 AM
I also read the Michael Freeman supplementary review and, yes, surprise.   Unusual for Chandos to mess around like that though they have done a couple of boo-boos in the past.   

I decided not to buy the set as I have the 1979 Del Mar recording.   

.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: sound67 on September 26, 2007, 03:10:29 AM
I think Michael Freeman is one big pussy. At the end of Lewis Freeman's liner notes, the booklet clearly states:

"Owing to the exceptional length of Omar Khayyam, Bantock authorized various cuts and alternative truncated passages in Parts I and II. In this recording, a small number of these have been observed, always with the concern to ensure minimum disruption to the narrative flow."

Thomas

Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Montpellier on September 26, 2007, 08:34:32 AM
I think you'll find that some of the cuts were not those authorised by Bantock.

Point is - why the cuts anyway?  If Chandos is going to record the 'complete' work, why not record it complete.  They have actually cut about 4 minutes from almost 3 hours.   It isn't as if they're stuffed for room on any of the CDs.   Stupid, if you ask me.   I mean, here's a monumental opportunity and...(sighing)...they blow it.   

I'm just glad that I didn't buy it and find out too late.  I've have been pissed off all right!           



Edit: typo
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: sound67 on September 26, 2007, 10:02:17 AM
They didn't blow it, and you would never have noticed if it weren't in the liner notes.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: tjguitar on September 26, 2007, 07:34:30 PM
The only thing I wonder is why cut the (supposedly orchestral?) prelude to part 2?
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: m_gigena on November 18, 2007, 06:25:05 AM
I have the 1979 recording of Omar Khayyam but I don't have any information about it, and I don't have the Chandos release to compare. Do you know if any cuts were done to the old one?
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Peregrine on December 02, 2007, 01:03:25 PM
So I guess the stuff on Hyperion is de rigueur, but are there any Naxos goodies for a newbie(price considerations and that)...?
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on December 02, 2007, 01:46:04 PM
So I guess the stuff on Hyperion is de rigueur, but are there any Naxos goodies for a newbie(price considerations and that)...?


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bantock-Hebridean-Symphony-English-RussianScenes/dp/B00005AYEO/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1196631898&sr=1-6
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Hector on December 03, 2007, 07:36:33 AM

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bantock-Hebridean-Symphony-English-RussianScenes/dp/B00005AYEO/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1196631898&sr=1-6

Some prefer Leaper to Handley in the Hebridean.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Peregrine on December 03, 2007, 11:37:39 AM
Just ordered, thanks!

 :)

Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Mark on December 03, 2007, 12:08:55 PM

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bantock-Hebridean-Symphony-English-RussianScenes/dp/B00005AYEO/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1196631898&sr=1-6

I'll download this for pence. Thanks. ;)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on December 04, 2007, 03:35:17 AM
Both welcome.Hope you enjoy. I have Boult doing the Hebridean too on a, long deleted, Intaglio CD.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on April 05, 2009, 02:23:25 AM
HMV in Bond Street (London) has the Hyperion boxed set in their sale at £25. This is very good value, as there must be 6CDs I think. Nice new cover art too  :o
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: The new erato on April 05, 2009, 05:48:23 AM
HMV in Bond Street (London) has the Hyperion boxed set in their sale at £25. This is very good value, as there must be 6CDs I think. Nice new cover art too  :o
It was available at mdt just before Christmas at around 20 quid at a Hyperion box set sale.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Dundonnell on April 05, 2009, 01:05:34 PM
Bantock is another composer whose music was revived through the committed advocacy of the late lamented Vernon Handley. I just adore the passionate sweep of the Hebridean and Celtic Symphonies....but I suppose that would be natural for a Scot like me ;D
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: The new erato on April 05, 2009, 09:18:37 PM
I have the Hyperion box set as well as the Chandos Omar and can't say I'm quite convinced- But Bantock is in my "must listen more" pile, so we'll see.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Lethevich on June 10, 2009, 01:14:16 PM
Bump for this poor dead thread!

The Hyperion box is a perfect purchase for those inclined towards this kind of neglected Romanticism. A key point of its value is the quality of the performances. Beautifully transparent, and quite unexplectedly, the Royal Philharmonic play their butts off. I can't recall hearing them ever play this well before. Excellent recording quality and presentation - great work all round. The Celtic Symphony disc alone is a stunning achivement, as many have said, but I had ignored until this point.

Bantock's style is rather different to what I had been expecting. I find his music to be ahead of his generation - looking forward to Bax rather than content to write for the academic scene. I don't really understand the Elgar comparisons - Bantock appears to look more towards Finland/Russia for musical inspiration, Elgar to Germany. Elgar is more objective, Bantock is more heady.

I find myself startled at the depth of atmosphere in much of his music - it comes in start contrast to much else from Britain in the late 19th/early 20th century. His beautifully abstract, yet finely structured symphonies all impress me equally, despite his rather dubious distinction between symphony and tone poem (à la Liszt). I like the unabashed Romanticism in his diving into any folkloric subject he could get his hands on and writing music to fit it. Ranging between impish folksiness and pseudo-pornographic Szymanowskin/Scriabin-esque sensuousness :P

The sheer volume of music he wrote also intrigues me, and if it is all on the same level as contained on these six discs it confirms that there is plenty of great music left waiting to be recorded and that we're not yet scraping the barrel to find more tonal music to record. I could see Naxos doing an orchestral works series as with Bax if it were not for Bantock's lesser state of interest as far as the record buying public are concerned at the moment. It doesn't help that their first Bantock disc doesn't compare to Handley in terms of quality - they should move onto what Hyperion have yet to record IMHO.

My favourite works so far are the wonderful stormy micro tone poem The Sea Reivers culled from the Hebridean Symphony, and the meandering Sapphic Poem which gives the cello soloist a fine workout.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Dundonnell on June 10, 2009, 03:00:34 PM
Excellent post :)

I suppose that the main problem with what you would like to see happen next with Bantock's music is that he has lost his main champion in Vernon Handley. I cannot see any conductor of comparable stature being interested in promoting Bantock :(
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Wanderer on June 11, 2009, 02:44:34 AM
Excellent post indeed, Lethe. I second the observation about the "depth of atmosphere"; a characteristic of Bantock throughout his output.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on June 11, 2009, 03:01:12 AM
Excellent post :)

Seconded.

And I love that Sapphic CD, too. In spite of the (acceptably erotic) cover, I find the music quite chaste and pure, though warm. I don't find Bantock as voluptuous as Scriabin (or Bax in his wilder, undoubtedly Harriet Cohen-inspired moods).

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FHKG5GK8L._SS400_.jpg)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Lethevich on June 11, 2009, 03:23:20 AM
Indeed, the Sapphic Poem never quite goes into the Dance of the Seven Veils territory that the cover perhaps alludes to...
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Lethevich on September 15, 2009, 12:23:54 AM
How do the Bantock fans here rate his works in relation to each other? Do you find a consistency in his output, or that certain works are simply better than others?

I notice that the more I listen to his symphonies, the more the Pagan Symphony seems to be the weakest of the lot. It has dazzling effects, as usual, but once or twice approaches crudeness, and also the sense of cohesion between sections - especially when compared to the Celtic Symphony - is not to be found...
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 15, 2009, 04:12:19 AM
I can't answer your question, Sarah, I still have to listen to the Pagan Symphony, which I'll do asap. But I have been listening to that Handley recording (you know, the one with the Hebridean and the Celtic you infected me with) several times already today - terrific music, which I think I only now can follow completely. I had forgotten how grand Bantock can be (movements 5, 6 and 8 in the Hebridean!) And the Celtic is utterly ravishing, with one passage presaging one major motif from the 'Lord of the Rings' score!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Lethevich on September 15, 2009, 04:57:19 AM
And the Celtic is utterly ravishing, with one passage presaging one major motif from the 'Lord of the Rings' score!

Indeed, I felt there were many "filmic" gestures in the music - also several hints towards Sibelius's 3rd too, although I suspect this impression may be somewhat artificially imposed due to knowing Bantock was the dedicatee for the 3rd...
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on September 15, 2009, 01:50:05 PM
I rather like the Pagan Symphony - a sprawling but very atmospheric work with a great ending.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: haydnguy on September 17, 2009, 11:28:30 PM
It's good to see that others have been listening to Bantock lately as well.

I have just had a "first listen" of all the disks in the hyperion 6-CD set. I am quite impressed with Bantock's music and am going to keep him on my "heavy rotation list" for awhile. My favorite CD's of the lot were 1) the one with the Hebridean Symphony and Celtic Symphony, and 2) the one with Sapphic Poem. Susan Bickley does an outstanding job with the vocals as a mezzo in teh Sapphic Poem. Going to give each disk several more listens and will come back and express further thoughts on them.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on September 20, 2009, 04:35:02 AM
It's good to see that others have been listening to Bantock lately as well.

I have just had a "first listen" of all the disks in the hyperion 6-CD set. I am quite impressed with Bantock's music and am going to keep him on my "heavy rotation list" for awhile. My favorite CD's of the lot were 1) the one with the Hebridean Symphony and Celtic Symphony, and 2) the one with Sapphic Poem. Susan Bickley does an outstanding job with the vocals as a mezzo in teh Sapphic Poem. Going to give each disk several more listens and will come back and express further thoughts on them.

The CD with the Celtic symphony is my favourite too. But I also like the Pagan Symphony and Symphony No 3 'The Cyprian Goddess' - great late-romantic material for wallowing in!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Mirror Image on August 04, 2010, 07:19:47 PM
I own the Hyperion box set of orchestral works with Handley/Royal Philharmonic and it's an outstanding set. Bantock was a wonderfully lyrical composer. I would like to hear a conductor like Andrew Davis tackle some Bantock down the road as I think he could truthfully conduct this music.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Octo_Russ on August 04, 2010, 11:36:41 PM
May i also give my strong recommendation to the Celtic/Hebridean Symphony disc by Handley, it is a beauty, but no one seems to have mentioned The Witch Of Atlas on that disc, in my mind it's the very best thing on the disc, a phenomenal tone poem.

The Celtic Symphony in my mind is more like Vaughan Williams's Tallis Fantasia, it's hard to see it as a Symphony, maybe he should have called it his 'Celtic Fantasia', i find him a good cross between Bax and Sibelius.

This disc is my one of my all time favourites, i've played it so much, however it's the only Bantock disc i have!, and i've neglected delving more into him, i'm not particularly a 'boxed sets' person, so where do i go next?, my thoughts are with Sappho/Handley, unless anyone's got a better recommendation.

Also, does anyone know of any other 'unknown' composers that have music like Celtic Symphony/Witch Of Atlas?.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51aywcmR-oL._SS400_.jpg)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Lethevich on August 05, 2010, 03:57:29 AM
I must warn you that you simply won't find a Bantock disc to equal the one that you own - it contains too many of his best pieces. However, all the other orchestral discs in the series are well worth investigating.

A logical next step would be to complete his "trilogy" (he termed another of the major orchestral works his fourth symphony, I believe, but it hasn't stuck) of symphonies (disc 1) - the couplings are fine, although individually I would not rate them as highly as their comparable pieces on the disc you own: the Sea Reivers is more striking than the two Heroic Ballads, nice as they are, and I agree the Witch of Atlas is an underrated work that Fifine can't quite rival.

If this and the disc you own form a logical pairing, as do the next two, which feature several works based on Greek themes. Both are equally fine, but I would second your choice of the Sapphic Poem disc. It's not quite as over the top as choice of dedicatee and the disc's naked lady cover would imply, but it's marvelously atmospheric music and demonstrates some versatility - he doesn't write music for Greeks in the same way as music for Scots :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51H3GHgRfWL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bantock-Symphony-Royal-Philharmonic-Orchestra/dp/B000002ZS8/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1281011931&sr=1-5) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FHKG5GK8L._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bantock-Sappho-Sapphic-Sir-Granville/dp/B000002ZYH/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1281011931&sr=1-3) (http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/4458/ffwda.jpg) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bantock-Cyprian-Royal-Philharmonic-Orchestra/dp/B000002ZWH/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1281011931&sr=1-9)

The Naxos and Boult discs that I have heard are fine but don't come close to the quality of the Hyperion series. The Naxos one in particular was a bit disappointing, given how used I had become to their discs (for example Bax) offering stiffer competition to their rivals on Chandos, et al.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on August 07, 2010, 04:03:14 AM
May i also give my strong recommendation to the Celtic/Hebridean Symphony disc by Handley, it is a beauty, but no one seems to have mentioned The Witch Of Atlas on that disc, in my mind it's the very best thing on the disc, a phenomenal tone poem.

The Celtic Symphony in my mind is more like Vaughan Williams's Tallis Fantasia, it's hard to see it as a Symphony, maybe he should have called it his 'Celtic Fantasia', i find him a good cross between Bax and Sibelius.

This disc is my one of my all time favourites, i've played it so much, however it's the only Bantock disc i have!, and i've neglected delving more into him, i'm not particularly a 'boxed sets' person, so where do i go next?, my thoughts are with Sappho/Handley, unless anyone's got a better recommendation.

Also, does anyone know of any other 'unknown' composers that have music like Celtic Symphony/Witch Of Atlas?.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51aywcmR-oL._SS400_.jpg)

My advice would be to go for the Hyperion disc with the Pagan Symphony. I don't think that you'll be disappointed as some of the shorter works share themes with the Hebriddean Symphony! As for other composers, you might enjoy Rudolph Simonsen's 'Hellas' and 'Zion' symphonies on CPO.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Mirror Image on August 07, 2010, 05:00:27 AM
It's worth it to just go ahead and buy the Bantock box set. The whole set is essential listening:
 
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61bNAoMbV%2BL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: mc ukrneal on August 07, 2010, 10:22:40 PM
It's worth it to just go ahead and buy the Bantock box set. The whole set is essential listening:
 
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61bNAoMbV%2BL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
And it is $30 at Berkshire (they still had it as of this morning).
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Wanderer on August 07, 2010, 10:32:27 PM
It's worth it to just go ahead and buy the Bantock box set. The whole set is essential listening:
 
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61bNAoMbV%2BL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Seconded, even though we all got it mainly for the artwork.  ;D
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Mirror Image on August 09, 2010, 10:25:23 AM
And it is $30 at Berkshire (they still had it as of this morning).

Berkshire charges too much for their shipping, but they have the best price on this box set right now. Buying the box set is an affordable way to get the complete series. Their price would be the way to go. I've owned this set for a year now and it's one of the many treasures I have in my collection.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: CD on August 09, 2010, 04:30:33 PM
Apparently Mike Nelson from Mystery Science Theater 3000 is a fan. Who knew? :D

(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z245/tapiola/Picture1-5.png)


Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Albion on December 30, 2010, 09:44:34 AM
As an ardent lover of all things Bantockian, I thought I'd draw attention to two recent discs of his unnaccompanied choral music that may have slipped through the net:

http://www.meridian-records.co.uk/acatalog/CDE84570.html (http://www.meridian-records.co.uk/acatalog/CDE84570.html)

http://www.regent-records.co.uk/product_details_189.htm (http://www.regent-records.co.uk/product_details_189.htm)

The latter is particularly important in giving us at last the third 'Choral Symphony' A Pageant of Human Life - in fact this is more of a short choral suite, far removed from the labyrinthine a capella complexities of Atalanta in Calydon and Vanity of Vanities (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bantock-Choral-Symphonies-Granville/dp/B0000049PB/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293730675&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bantock-Choral-Symphonies-Granville/dp/B0000049PB/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293730675&sr=1-1)), but nonetheless valuable to have in such a superb performance. The St Louis disc also presents the first performance of the only surviving (and unpublished) movement of Bantock's aborted Walt Whitman Choral Symphony, a project he abandoned in order to concentrate on Vanity.

Both discs are very well executed, beautifully presented and thoroughly recommendable.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Lethevich on January 12, 2011, 03:20:37 AM
I was just browsing Bantock's Wikipedia entry. How dreadfully depressing how much of his music is unrecorded. Where labels are now beginning to scrape the barrel with, say, Bax's output, Bantock has entire choral "symphonies" and reams of orchestral music untouched by major recording labels (and yet where Chandos recording Omar Khayyam was laudable, I doubt it will be a money spinner) :'(
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Mirror Image on January 12, 2011, 07:12:37 AM
I was just browsing Bantock's Wikipedia entry. How dreadfully depressing how much of his music is unrecorded. Where labels are now beginning to scrape the barrel with, say, Bax's output, Bantock has entire choral "symphonies" and reams of orchestral music untouched by major recording labels (and yet where Chandos recording Omar Khayyam was laudable, I doubt it will be a money spinner) :'(

I don't think this should be any surprise. There's still a large number of Villa-Lobos works that haven't even been performed. Major labels are only after what sells now. How many damn Beethoven symphony cycles do we really need on the market? Come on!  ::)  Thank goodness Vernon Handley recorded what I think is an outstanding set. We're lucky to have what we have.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Lethevich on January 12, 2011, 07:21:20 AM
His revival was a minor miracle, although it is a shame that it has somewhat faltered (Hyperion boxing their series no doubt indicates it has come to an end). An intriguing possibility thrown up by Wikipedia: every one of Bantock's concerante works is either for or involving a cello. That's a whole disc worth of potentially neat tone-poems-with-a-soloist if his Sapphic Poem is anything to go by. I am also curious as to whether any of them are in his "heroic" style - perhaps a counterpart to Strauss' Don Quixote?

I have recently been listening to one of my all-time favourite CDs, the Hyperion disc with the Celtic and Hebridean symphonies. The Hebridean one is frequently considered to be his finest symphony, but I find much of it lacking the serene movement of the Celtic - I tend to find myself lost between a handfull of admittedly wonderful, noble themes. With the Celtic there is a very strong narrative pull throughout.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Mirror Image on January 12, 2011, 08:53:17 AM
I have recently been listening to one of my all-time favourite CDs, the Hyperion disc with the Celtic and Hebridean symphonies. The Hebridean one is frequently considered to be his finest symphony, but I find much of it lacking the serene movement of the Celtic - I tend to find myself lost between a handfull of admittedly wonderful, noble themes. With the Celtic there is a very strong narrative pull throughout.


I agree that the Hebridean isn't as fine as his Celtic, but I think it's still a good symphony. I actually loved that very short piece on that disc The Sea Reivers. This has a Straussian like charm and I just love when those french horns play those long lines to signal the eruption that is about to happen within the orchestra towards the end of the piece. Absolutely priceless. :)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Lethevich on January 12, 2011, 09:36:50 AM
It's surprising that (iirc) that piece was culled from the Hebridean symphony, where it would've been a highlight. The Sea Reivers is the piece I use to re-test my house's music setup whenever somebody invariably moves the furniture around.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Mirror Image on January 12, 2011, 11:11:15 AM
It's surprising that (iirc) that piece was culled from the Hebridean symphony, where it would've been a highlight. The Sea Reivers is the piece I use to re-test my house's music setup whenever somebody invariably moves the furniture around.

Why is it that the last movement of A Celtic Symphony stirs up all these feelings inside of me? Like, for example, being complete as a human being and with knowing the noble cause of helping others and being dedicated to that cause is why we are put here? Anyway, the first time I heard this work, I thought I walked into a dream or something, because this was music I had thought about, but didn't know it existed. Bax touched on the Celtic thing, but Bantock really did a beautiful thing with this symphony.

I guess what I just wrote above is really stupid...I'll go back into my hole now and never speak of this again. :-X
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Lethevich on January 12, 2011, 10:00:04 PM
:) There is a certain "rightness" to the piece, the constant slow forward movement, the perfect arch in which the themes are placed at key moments for the greatest impact (including the surging final indexed section, with a serenity like a mountain stream). Without the symphony, and specifically the quality of the performance, I wouldn't rate that Hyperion CD anywhere near so highly.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: haydnguy on May 21, 2011, 07:49:02 PM
HMV in Bond Street (London) has the Hyperion boxed set in their sale at £25. This is very good value, as there must be 6CDs I think. Nice new cover art too  :o

This is gorgeous, gorgeous music.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: cilgwyn on May 22, 2011, 08:48:13 AM
I have the Downes recording of the 'Pagan Symphony'.not because it's a better performance than the Handley,but because I like to hear other interpretations of a work,I like Downes,and because I prefer the couplings. I have to say 'Fifine at the Fair' is pleasent enough,but a bit of a snoozefest as far as I'm concerned. Also,the couplings of the Bax Northern Ballads & 'Tintagel' seem more appropriate with in terms of atmosphere and imagery. Downe's handling of the 'Dance of the Satyrs' is a bit strange! Overall,he seems to take a more lesiurely approach to the work. it makes an interesting alternative now and again & makes me wish Downes could have had a go at a proper Bantock cd recording,but there's no doubt the Handley version is the one to go for!
  I hope I haven't offended anyone who enjoys 'Fifine'! (Funnily enough,despite the sound quality I think I actually preferred the cut Beecham recording in a way).
  I also have the Intaglio cd. The sound quality is pretty awful to say the least,but if you are an admirer of Bantock or/and a completionist it's worth a hearing. It sounds a bit like someone had a reel to reel tape recorder at the end of the concert hall. (Hopefully the original set up was a bit better) Clear enough to follow,'if yer know wot i mean' but,erm,remote!!!
   I share some of Lethe's feelings about the current disinterest in Bantock. I suggest having a peep at the Chandos forum. According to postings by the MC himself Chandos ARE currently looking at the possibility of further recordings.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: cilgwyn on May 22, 2011, 09:07:57 AM
You can see the reply on the Forum if you click on Page 2 & look for the 'Bantock' post,(as might be expected). No 'announcement' as yet,sadly,but apparently they've had to to review all their current projects,understandably,due to the untimely death of Richard Hickox and the passing of Vernon Handley. I gather they are showing interest in Bantock's contemporary,the 'Cockney Wagner' too!!!! (I really SHOULDN'T call Holbrooke that,should I?!)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on May 22, 2011, 11:47:29 AM
I too have three recordings of the Pagan Symphony - one of Bantock's finest works I think. The Handley CD is my favourite.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: cilgwyn on May 22, 2011, 01:22:14 PM
It's difficult to see how the Downes could ever be a favourite. Although,if the Handley had never been recorded I think I would have been pretty happy with it!
The worst Bantock performance I have hears is the Marco Polo of the 'Hebridean'. When I got the Handley the brass seemed to thunder out. On the MP recording you could hardly hear them. Still,at least they tried I suppose. But such unfortunate timing (for them).
I seem to recall the Hull Youth SO had a go as as well.
The 'Pagan Symphony' is marvellous. I love the way Bantock sweeps towards the finale. It's so exciting with those flourishes from the brass and the thunder of the timpani. No wonder Elgar was so impressed. I used to have the cd on full blast years ago.Thankfully I'm a much more considerate person now!

Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: cilgwyn on May 23, 2011, 05:23:11 AM
I wonder if we'll ever get some Bantock at the Proms? Well we've got Bax & Brian this year,so I don't see why not. The 'Pagan Symphony', 'Sappho',or the 'Celtic Symphony' would be great.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: cilgwyn on June 22, 2012, 11:13:32 AM
I was VERY pleased to see the Granville Bantock society has now got a website. Most of it,appears to be 'under construction',however, but,I presume that it hasn't been up long! Apparently,the site will be "continually expanding to accomodate the wealth of material and information that is available."

http://www.granvillebantock.com/index.html (http://www.granvillebantock.com/index.html)

Hope the link works. If not,it's there! ;D
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on June 22, 2012, 11:39:15 AM
The link works. Nice to see a younger (?) generation of Bantocks keeping the legacy alive.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Albion on June 22, 2012, 12:42:09 PM
Yes, it's good to see that the Bantock Society (in its third incarnation) is becoming active again. The loss of Vernon Handley was grievous in terms of the recording of many British composers (he was scheduled to begin work on Holbrooke and Cowen for Chandos), but as has already been mentioned in this thread we are enormously fortunate that Hyperion took the risk of producing six wonderful discs and Chandos gave us a first-rate (almost complete) Omar Khayyam under his baton. Albany supplied fine recordings of the unaccompanied choral symphonies Atalanta in Calydon and The Vanity of Vanities, although the BBC Singers cannot match the weight of the sheer number of singers that Bantock ideally desired, and Regent has issued the choral suite A Pageant of Human Life, often wrongly termed the third choral symphony.

The best of the orchestral music has, in all truth, been covered but a shortlist of works urgently in need of recording would be

The Time-Spirit (1904) poem for chorus and orchestra
Sea Wanderers (1907) poem for chorus and orchestra
The Great God Pan (1915) choral ballet for soli, chorus and orchestra
The Seal-Woman (1924), Celtic folk opera in two acts
The Pilgrim's Progress (1928) for soli, chorus and orchestra

I would certainly rate all of these higher than the elephantine The Song of Songs (1912-22), but am equally pleased that extracts from this have been made available by Hyperion (and in a deleted historical broadcast issued by Dutton).

 :)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: cilgwyn on June 22, 2012, 01:00:48 PM
No less than four! And some fine names there. Bjorn Bantock! Sounds like he threw in the tennis! ;D I was a member for a while,back in the late eighties/early nineties,I think? The journal was quite substantial. A good read,in fact! I recall issues devoted to Sappho & the Pagan symphony,I think? But it's a while back,now. Unfortunately,I didn't hang onto my copies. At the time,a complete recording of Omar Khayyam was a bit of a pipe dream! Not sure I will be rejoining at the moment. I'm not quite as into Bantock as I was then. Not that I don't enjoy his music;it's just that my tastes have expanded & there's enough going out of my account,already! :(
  It would be nice to see some more Bantock,though. There appears to have been a lull since the Handley/Hyperion recordings.
  With respect to non Handley Bantock,I DO rather like the Edward Downes performance,of the 'Pagan Symphony', on the defunct BBC Radio Classics,label. While,this isn't most people's favourite performance,I think it is rather good & it must have been quite an 'ear opener' to have heard this performance,on the radio,when it was originally broadcast. Having said that,I must confess,the other reason I play it allot,is because of the couplings;Bax's 'Tintagel' & 'Northern Ballads No's 2 & 3. These are among my favourite Bax tone poems (well,Tintagel would be,I suppose!) and,in my humble opinion,the atmosphere & mood of those pieces go allot better with Bantock's 'Pagan Symphony',which I must confess here,isn't a favourite of mine. Having said that,I'll have another go this week. Maybe,I will change my mind! Like some other people,I got to know this,originally,via the Beecham recording. The Pagan & Hebridean Symphonies came as a bit of a suprise after that. I enjoyed 'Fifine' at the time,but the symphonies were so different. Not wanting to knock 'Fifine',I do think that a Beecham recording of the more dramatic 'Pagan',or more taughtly structured 'Celtic Symphony' might have done more to enhance Bantock's reputation. Although,maybe not THAT much (at the time).Composers like Bantock were really in the doldrums,back then. We complain about neglected composers now,but think what it was like,then!
  Going back to Downes,he also made a recording of Boughton's lovely 'Deidre Symphony',which is also available on BBC Radio Classics. I have loved that work,ever since I heard the original performance,back in the 1980's. Anyway,I must refrain from turning this into a Boughton thread! ;D

Apologies Albion,I saw you're post,but I'm not the best typist & I decided to go ahead....... ;D
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: cilgwyn on June 22, 2012, 01:19:02 PM
A 'mouth watering' list,Albion! The 'Seal Woman' has got to be a particular,'must'! But then again,what about all of them? ;D!!! A few of his lighter orchestral works could make a pleasent cd,though & I wouldn't mind hearing Lalla Rookh! (Hope the spelling is correct. I just had a quick peek at Wikipedia! :o :() I hope it hasn't been mislaid!!! :(
  I wonder if the Regent Regent cd is an improvement on the Albany cd? I must admit that was one of my Bantock disappointments. The actual forces used aside,I felt it could have been done better. Having said that,maybe I just need to listen to it again. I sold my copy to the lady with the 'record stall' in the market! :o

As a fan of neglected English opera,particularly from the first three decades,or so, of the last century,'The Seal Woman' is high on my list of opera's I would love to hear. But so is Holbrooke's 'The Cauldron of Annwn' cycle (or just one of them). I was listening to excerpts from 'Bronwen',earlier. Darkly dramatic,a really first rate complete recording of that opera,could really help to change people's perspective on that composer. Oh and,let's not forget Boughton's Arthurian cycle!!! ;D Havergal Brian's 'The Tiger's.................
 
It is extroadinary to have so many of Bantock's major works on cd,in such marvellous performances. I recall an article on the 'English Musical Renaissance', by Michael Kennedy,in Gramophone,back in the eighties (I think) dismissing Bantock in one brief sentence.
Who'd have thought?!!! :o :)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Albion on June 22, 2012, 10:38:15 PM
The 'Seal Woman' has got to be a particular,'must'!

This lovely opera (really a chamber opera) would not be too extravagantly expensive to revive as it is scored for a modest ensemble of flute, cor anglais, clarinet, horn, timpani, harp and strings. Bantock structures the score around actual Hebridean folk melodies, as collected and 'arranged' by Marjorie Kennedy-Fraser (1857-1930).

The story is slight, but poignant - a legend (related by an old woman) tells of seals that can turn into mortal women, and the voices of a Seal-Woman and her Seal-Sister are heard. Fishermen then approach the island and the Isleman remembers a Seal-Woman that he encountered in the distant past. The Seal-Woman and her sister appear, and the Isleman takes their sea-robes from them, without which they are forever trapped in human form. Eventually persuaded to return the robe of the sister, he declares his love for the Seal-Woman, and she agrees to go with him.

Seven years later (in Act 2), the couple have had a child, Morag, but the Seal-Woman wishes to return to her original form. Three swans predict that she will only be free when her daughter discovers the sea-robe which has been hidden away. Morag finds it and brings it to her mother. Returning home, the Isleman sees his wife fling herself from the cliff into the sea, and he and his daughter listen to the Seal-Woman singing as she swims away.

 :)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: cilgwyn on June 23, 2012, 06:30:17 AM
Lovely,indeed! Simple and evocative. If only more operatic storylines could be as straightforward as that. It's simplicity reminds me of Savitri,the old Decca recording of which I listened to,recently! Of course,the actual libretto itself,may be more awkward,'of it's time',as they say. But that would be part of it's charm. And Gerontius isn't exactly a literary masterpiece,come to think of it;although it 'does the job!' Marjorie Kennedy-Fraser's work has attracted to some criticism,in some quarters,but I assume (!) the quality ofBantock's imagination surmounts it.?!
Either way,I can't wait to hear it! ;D
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on August 16, 2013, 09:28:38 AM
I am going to see the 'Celtic Symphony' at the Proms in London next Wednesday. Probably the first and last time I will hear any of Bantock's music live.  Can't wait!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: kyjo on August 16, 2013, 09:50:17 AM
I am going to see the 'Celtic Symphony' at the Proms in London next Wednesday. Probably the first and last time I will hear any of Bantock's music live.  Can't wait!

Lucky you! :) I adore Bantock's Celtic and Hebridean symphonies. I'd especially love to see the six (I believe) harps that Bantock calls for in the Celtic in concert! What a spectacle you are about to witness!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on August 16, 2013, 10:03:07 AM
Lucky you! :) I adore Bantock's Celtic and Hebridean symphonies. I'd especially love to see the six (I believe) harps that Bantock calls for in the Celtic in concert! What a spectacle you are about to witness!

Yes, I can't wait. I wonder if they will use all six harps! I'll let you know. In anticipation I am listening to a 1948 performance of the work.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on August 16, 2013, 10:16:43 AM
Why is it that the last movement of A Celtic Symphony stirs up all these feelings inside of me? Like, for example, being complete as a human being and with knowing the noble cause of helping others and being dedicated to that cause is why we are put here? Anyway, the first time I heard this work, I thought I walked into a dream or something, because this was music I had thought about, but didn't know it existed. Bax touched on the Celtic thing, but Bantock really did a beautiful thing with this symphony.

I guess what I just wrote above is really stupid...I'll go back into my hole now and never speak of this again. :-X

I had not noticed this post before John and find it rather moving, certainly not 'stupid' in any sense at all - quite the contrary in fact. The effect that music can have on us is a wondrous and magical thing.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Mirror Image on August 16, 2013, 04:58:39 PM
I had not noticed this post before John and find it rather moving, certainly not 'stupid' in any sense at all - quite the contrary in fact. The effect that music can have on us is a wondrous and magical thing.

Ha! I had forgotten about that post, Jeffrey. I still feel this way about Celtic Symphony. A work that stirs my soul deep within, especially that last movement.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Mirror Image on August 16, 2013, 05:01:37 PM
I am going to see the 'Celtic Symphony' at the Proms in London next Wednesday. Probably the first and last time I will hear any of Bantock's music live.  Can't wait!

Fantastic Jeffrey! I hope you enjoy it! Please let us all know your impressions of the performance.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on August 16, 2013, 11:06:38 PM
Fantastic Jeffrey! I hope you enjoy it! Please let us all know your impressions of the performance.

Of course I will.  :)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on August 20, 2013, 10:19:48 PM
Don't forget to listen in to the wonderful Celtic Symphony at the Proms in London tonight if you are able to. I hope to be there although I have not received the ticket in the post yet. This could be the second time that I receive the ticket from the BBC the day after the concert  >:D.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Klaze on August 21, 2013, 11:33:09 AM
Nice to hear this piece in a different performance (only know Handley).
The harps were quite audible!
I think he took the first theme of the introduction a bit slower than Handley, and I think I noticed some sudden accelerations in the third movement.
All in all i liked it.
Curious about your impressions vandermolen, if you made it to the concert: how were the harps positioned actually?
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on August 21, 2013, 03:11:14 PM
Nice to hear this piece in a different performance (only know Handley).
The harps were quite audible!
I think he took the first theme of the introduction a bit slower than Handley, and I think I noticed some sudden accelerations in the third movement.
All in all i liked it.
Curious about your impressions vandermolen, if you made it to the concert: how were the harps positioned actually?

Well, I just got back from the Albert Hall and can tell you that all six harps were used - it was great to see them all lined up next to each other at the back of the orchestra. I was very moved to hear the Celtic Symphony live. It was taken slower (especially at the start) than in the Handley recording but I thought that Sakari Oramo gave a fine performance and the harps were very much in evidence. My brother, who was with me was not so impressed with the work and described it as a composite of Elgar and Vaughan Williams with a bit of Moeran added to the mix and thought it a rather anachronistic work for 1940. All true of course but I do not really see them as weaknesses and I got fully into the haunting and magical atmosphere of the piece. Nice performance of the Sibelius Violin Concerto too by Lisa Batiashvili and the concert ended with a powerful rendition of Elgar's Enigma Variations. I thought that the opening work by Param Vir was unappealing. Still, a great concert and I'm really glad that I went.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Moonfish on April 08, 2015, 07:50:51 AM
I just have to bump this thread and cross post as I was so impressed with my recent exposure to Bantock's music!  8)
Eighteen months without any Bantock posts is toooooooo long!

3x

Bantock:
Celtic Symphony
The Witch of Atlas
The Sea Reivers
Hebridean Symphony

Royal PO/Handley



My first listen to Bantock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granville_Bantock) (ever) and I find myself loving this music!  I listened to this recording three times over the last 24 hours! I simply cannot believe that I have not come across his works earlier in all my listening sessions. The soundscape invoked by Bantock is mesmerizing - it feels like reading romantic poetry while being surrounded by Waterhouse's art. It is a very romantic soundscape for sure. I wonder what his other works are like, but this is a true winner in my eyes/ears.  Wonderful! Perhaps one can argue that the Celtic Symphony is a bit simplistic with the combination of strings and harps, but it works very well. It was refreshing to have such a contrast in tone poem The Witch of Atlas as the orchestra's soundscape became more complex compared to the Celtic Symphony. Great stuff! I am surprised that Bantock has not been recorded very much (as far as I can tell). Did Handley really become the champion for Bantock with these recordings on Hyperion? What about all the choral works? Regardless, the Royal PO sounds marvelous in these performances. Fantastic! You have to excuse me now as I need to listen to this recording one more time...   ;D

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ayB1iEebL.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51t2xPZva5L.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VB6RDRGqL.jpg)

(http://wuol.org/wp-content/uploads/bantock.jpg)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on April 08, 2015, 08:47:58 AM
I just have to bump this thread and cross post as I was so impressed with my recent exposure to Bantock's music!  8)
Eighteen months without any Bantock posts is toooooooo long!

3x

Bantock:
Celtic Symphony
The Witch of Atlas
The Sea Reivers
Hebridean Symphony

Royal PO/Handley



My first listen to Bantock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granville_Bantock) (ever) and I find myself loving this music!  I listened to this recording three times over the last 24 hours! I simply cannot believe that I have not come across his works earlier in all my listening sessions. The soundscape invoked by Bantock is mesmerizing - it feels like reading romantic poetry while being surrounded by Waterhouse's art. It is a very romantic soundscape for sure. I wonder what his other works are like, but this is a true winner in my eyes/ears.  Wonderful! Perhaps one can argue that the Celtic Symphony is a bit simplistic with the combination of strings and harps, but it works very well. It was refreshing to have such a contrast in tone poem The Witch of Atlas as the orchestra's soundscape became more complex compared to the Celtic Symphony. Great stuff! I am surprised that Bantock has not been recorded very much (as far as I can tell). Did Handley really become the champion for Bantock with these recordings on Hyperion? What about all the choral works? Regardless, the Royal PO sounds marvelous in these performances. Fantastic! You have to excuse me now as I need to listen to this recording one more time...   ;D

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ayB1iEebL.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51t2xPZva5L.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VB6RDRGqL.jpg)

(http://wuol.org/wp-content/uploads/bantock.jpg)

Great to hear that you are enjoying this music. When you finally tear yourself away from the Witch of Atlas etc I suggest that you try the equally good Hyperion CD with the Pagan Symphony on. In the old BBC Guide to the best 1000 classical CDs they chose that one as their favourite.  :)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Rons_talking on April 08, 2015, 03:35:40 PM
I saw this thread and thought.."another composer from the UK I've never heard of." So I streamed a very low-fidelity recording of the Hebridean Symphony and loved it. I just downloaded the Handley recording of the Celtic and Hebridean Symphonies as well as The Witch of Atlas. Funny, I don't usually care for Romantic music much but these works really speak to me--a great musical atmosphere...and so I listen.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Mirror Image on April 08, 2015, 05:45:40 PM
I just have to bump this thread and cross post as I was so impressed with my recent exposure to Bantock's music!  8)
Eighteen months without any Bantock posts is toooooooo long!

3x

Bantock:
Celtic Symphony
The Witch of Atlas
The Sea Reivers
Hebridean Symphony

Royal PO/Handley



My first listen to Bantock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granville_Bantock) (ever) and I find myself loving this music!  I listened to this recording three times over the last 24 hours! I simply cannot believe that I have not come across his works earlier in all my listening sessions. The soundscape invoked by Bantock is mesmerizing - it feels like reading romantic poetry while being surrounded by Waterhouse's art. It is a very romantic soundscape for sure. I wonder what his other works are like, but this is a true winner in my eyes/ears.  Wonderful! Perhaps one can argue that the Celtic Symphony is a bit simplistic with the combination of strings and harps, but it works very well. It was refreshing to have such a contrast in tone poem The Witch of Atlas as the orchestra's soundscape became more complex compared to the Celtic Symphony. Great stuff! I am surprised that Bantock has not been recorded very much (as far as I can tell). Did Handley really become the champion for Bantock with these recordings on Hyperion? What about all the choral works? Regardless, the Royal PO sounds marvelous in these performances. Fantastic! You have to excuse me now as I need to listen to this recording one more time...   ;D

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ayB1iEebL.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51t2xPZva5L.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VB6RDRGqL.jpg)

(http://wuol.org/wp-content/uploads/bantock.jpg)

Welcome to the wonderful world of Bantock, Peter! 8) Yes, Handley was a champion of Bantock's music, although you'll find several scattered recordings on Naxos and Lyrita. I can't say why his music hasn't fared well on disc, but it's a shame as I love this guy's music. I take it you own the Hyperion box set? Love the whole set.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Moonfish on April 08, 2015, 07:53:53 PM
Welcome to the wonderful world of Bantock, Peter! 8) Yes, Handley was a champion of Bantock's music, although you'll find several scattered recordings on Naxos and Lyrita. I can't say why his music hasn't fared well on disc, but it's a shame as I love this guy's music. I take it you own the Hyperion box set? Love the whole set.

Thanks, John!  :) It is always exciting to discover new composers. Perhaps liking a composer from the get go is a bad sign? This is one I was instantly attuned to, but it remains to be seen if that will last. I hope so. Even if it doesn't I will definitely treasure the symphonies on this disk. The Witch of Atlas was also marvelous. 
Yes, I do own that set and cannot wait to slowly move through those six disks!  :P    It is surprising that Bantock's works are so absent from the repertoire. After all, it seems like he was quite productive. The soundscape really surprised me in its warmth and nuances. Especially so as this impression lasted throughout all the works I heard on that recording even though the style/scope of the work shifted a great deal. Very engaging.  I hope that Chandos in the future will pick up the banner once again and record additional works by Bantock. Go Chandos!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Moonfish on April 08, 2015, 07:56:33 PM
Great to hear that you are enjoying this music. When you finally tear yourself away from the Witch of Atlas etc I suggest that you try the equally good Hyperion CD with the Pagan Symphony on. In the old BBC Guide to the best 1000 classical CDs they chose that one as their favourite.  :)

Yes, it is beautiful and the witch's incantation is long-lasting. The Pagan Symphony is lined up for tomorrow. I very much look forward to the encounter! Yay!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Mirror Image on April 08, 2015, 08:35:10 PM
Thanks, John!  :) It is always exciting to discover new composers. Perhaps liking a composer from the get go is a bad sign? This is one I was instantly attuned to, but it remains to be seen if that will last. I hope so. Even if it doesn't I will definitely treasure the symphonies on this disk. The Witch of Atlas was also marvelous. 
Yes, I do own that set and cannot wait to slowly move through those six disks!  :P    It is surprising that Bantock's works are so absent from the repertoire. After all, it seems like he was quite productive. The soundscape really surprised me in its warmth and nuances. Especially so as this impression lasted throughout all the works I heard on that recording even though the style/scope of the work shifted a great deal. Very engaging.  I hope that Chandos in the future will pick up the banner once again and record additional works by Bantock. Go Chandos!

I agree with every word you wrote, Peter. Bantock draws the listener into a mystical sound-world. If you couldn't tell already, he was really into Greek mythology. One of my favorite works in that entire box set is actually one of the shortest: The Sea Reivers. The ending crescendo never fails to leave me breathless, especially with that last horn call.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on April 09, 2015, 12:55:09 AM
Yes, it is beautiful and the witch's incantation is long-lasting. The Pagan Symphony is lined up for tomorrow. I very much look forward to the encounter! Yay!

Let us know what you think of the Pagan Symphony. You will also recognise some of the themes from the Hebridean Symphony in the shorter works on the same disc. I also like Symphony 3. Happy listening!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on April 09, 2015, 12:57:52 AM
I saw this thread and thought.."another composer from the UK I've never heard of." So I streamed a very low-fidelity recording of the Hebridean Symphony and loved it. I just downloaded the Handley recording of the Celtic and Hebridean Symphonies as well as The Witch of Atlas. Funny, I don't usually care for Romantic music much but these works really speak to me--a great musical atmosphere...and so I listen.

Sibelius dedicated his Third Symphony to Bantock. He must have been much better known at that time and had done much to popularise Sibelius's music in the UK. He is an unjustly neglected figure although I know that this is an over-worked expression. It was great to see the Celtic Symphony live in London a while back.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: North Star on April 09, 2015, 01:13:16 AM
Much better known indeed!
Quote from: Lewis Foreman, liner notes of the Handley Hyperion box
From the first Bantock was regarded by his young contemporaries as a musical leader -- in modern parlance a 'role model'. The critic Ernest Newman reported how: 'Those of us who were then "young" and "modern" regarded Bantock as of much more importance than Elgar .... Bantock was definitely "contemporary". Indeed it was Elgar himself who referred to Bantock as "having the most fertile musical brain of our time".'
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Dax on April 09, 2015, 05:45:11 AM
Back in the late 1970s I went to hear a performance (presumably for a BBC broadcast) at Maida Vale Studios of a 4-movement Choral Symphony - googling suggests this may have been Atalanta in Calydon, but I have no recollection of the title. The music was pleasant enough without being particularly memorable. What was odd was the assertion that Bantock intended each movement be bathed in a different coloured light (Prometheus-like?) which the Maida Vale people made some attempt to reproduce.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on April 09, 2015, 06:22:24 AM
Back in the late 1970s I went to hear a performance (presumably for a BBC broadcast) at Maida Vale Studios of a 4-movement Choral Symphony - googling suggests this may have been Atalanta in Calydon, but I have no recollection of the title. The music was pleasant enough without being particularly memorable. What was odd was the assertion that Bantock intended each movement be bathed in a different coloured light (Prometheus-like?) which the Maida Vale people made some attempt to reproduce.

As a young child I was brought up in Maida Vale. Letter on when I became interested in music I often went there and was part of the small audience in the studio there. My uncle worked for the Performing Rights Society which made it easy for us to get tickets. I remember hearing Walter Susskind conduct Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet Suite and I heard Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem for the first time there. Happy memories.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Moonfish on April 12, 2015, 01:02:53 PM
Bantock: Pagan Symphony         Royal PO/Handley

Listened to this work three times over the last few days. Interesting work. Much harder (at least for me) to appreciate compared to his Celtic Symphony or The Witch of Atlas.

At first I was surprised how different this work was compared to the other two I heard. Each movement seems to have a very unique flavor. I was not too thrilled by the intense percussion in the 3rd movement (a pagan dance?), while the incredible fanfare at the beginning of the 4th movement was both jarring and engaging. As I listened to this work several times I started to move from initial dislike to an appreciation. It also seemed like I was hearing a strange blend of Richard Strauss (complex shining soundscapes), Vaughan Williams (an emotional push within the movements) and Mendelssohn (a bit more traditional symphonic components). Was that my imagination? The first movement is the one I favor the most - it seems like a complete tone poem on its own - as it feels complete in it harmonies. It is so strange with the drastic shifts in the different movements. The Celtic Symphony was a very late work of his (1940) while the Pagan Symphony was composed much earlier (1927). Could that play a role in how they unfolded?
Regardless, do you enjoy the Pagan Symphony?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61fvjnodLLL.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51t2xPZva5L.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Rv-YhvR9L.jpg)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on April 12, 2015, 01:12:34 PM
Bantock: Pagan Symphony         Royal PO/Handley

Listened to this work three times over the last few days. Interesting work. Much harder (at least for me) to appreciate compared to his Celtic Symphony or The Witch of Atlas.

At first I was surprised how different this work was compared to the other two I heard. Each movement seems to have a very unique flavor. I was not too thrilled by the intense percussion in the 3rd movement (a pagan dance?), while the incredible fanfare at the beginning of the 4th movement was both jarring and engaging. As I listened to this work several times I started to move from initial dislike to an appreciation. It also seemed like I was hearing a strange blend of Richard Strauss (complex shining soundscapes), Vaughan Williams (an emotional push within the movements) and Mendelssohn (a bit more traditional symphonic components). Was that my imagination? The first movement is the one I favor the most - it seems like a complete tone poem on its own - as it feels complete in it harmonies. It is so strange with the drastic shifts in the different movements. The Celtic Symphony was a very late work of his (1940) while the Pagan Symphony was composed much earlier (1927). Could that play a role in how they unfolded?
Regardless, do you enjoy the Pagan Symphony?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61fvjnodLLL.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51t2xPZva5L.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Rv-YhvR9L.jpg)

I like your analysis, which I largely agree with. Yes, I do like the Pagan Symphony and have three recordings (Downes, Boult and Handley). I find it to be both powerful and atmospheric. I especially like the last part of it.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: cilgwyn on April 13, 2015, 02:01:46 AM
I'm not saying it's a better performance;but I actually play the Downes BBC Radio Classics cd when I want to hear the Pagan Symphony. This is partly because I don't like Fifine at the Fair that much;and also because I prefer the couplings on the Downes cd,ie Bax's Tintagel and his Northern Ballads 2 & 3. I just think they have more in common,in terms of atmosphere (and,how best to describe it?) that 'legendary' quality. I think they go very well together and I do like Downe's performances.
In the same 'legendary' romantic vein,I do like Downe's recordings of Boughton's second and third  symphonies on the same label,very much. Boughton's fine third symphony has received a commercial recording on the Hyperion label.but alas (imho) Boughton's lovely "Deirdre" A Celtic Symphony,with it's ravishing second movement,which made such an impression on me,when I heard the original broadcast on R3,back in the 1980's,has yet to receive the same attention from Hyperion or Chandos (or Dutton!)! :( Oh well,the Downes performances are very good! (I also like Hyperions Aylesbury Games cd,very much (also Boughton). Like Schreker,I sometimes wish Boughton had concentrated more on orchestral works.
Apologies for going a little off-topic!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: cilgwyn on April 13, 2015, 02:26:13 AM
And for the italics!!! :o :-[
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on April 13, 2015, 05:23:20 AM
I'm not saying it's a better performance;but I actually play the Downes BBC Radio Classics cd when I want to hear the Pagan Symphony. This is partly because I don't like Fifine at the Fair that much;and also because I prefer the couplings on the Downes cd,ie Bax's Tintagel and his Northern Ballads 2 & 3. I just think they have more in common,in terms of atmosphere (and,how best to describe it?) that 'legendary' quality. I think they go very well together and I do like Downe's performances.
In the same 'legendary' romantic vein,I do like Downe's recordings of Boughton's second and third  symphonies on the same label,very much. Boughton's fine third symphony has received a commercial recording on the Hyperion label.but alas (imho) Boughton's lovely "Deirdre" A Celtic Symphony,with it's ravishing second movement,which made such an impression on me,when I heard the original broadcast on R3,back in the 1980's,has yet to receive the same attention from Hyperion or Chandos (or Dutton!)! :( Oh well,the Downes performances are very good! (I also like Hyperions Aylesbury Games cd,very much (also Boughton). Like Schreker,I sometimes wish Boughton had concentrated more on orchestral works.
Apologies for going a little off-topic!

I also play the BBC Radio Classics version of the Pagan Symphony for exactly the same reason as you do! I wish that RCA would release their LSO/Downes version of Bax's Third Symphony, which is my favourite version by far - this is unlikely to happen I suspect.  It's a pity that Dutton didn't release Boughton's 'Celtic Symphony' instead of the turgid 'Oliver Cromwell Symphony' which I find very boring, unlike the wonderfully moving coupling of Edgar Bainton's Third Symphony.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: cilgwyn on April 13, 2015, 05:54:16 AM
Yes,Boughton's First is a bit of a 'clunker'! To be fair,it's an early effort,though. I also don't think much of his String quartets,either! I do wish Dutton hadn't coupled those two works......and yes,Boughton's Second would have been preferable. It would have gone down very well here anyway!! ;D As to the Handley cd. I would play that version more often if it didn't have the Fifine coupling. Although,having said that,I would still play the Downes CD because of the Bax. Funnily enough,even though it's ancient and cut,I do prefer Beecham's recording of Fifine;if I want to listen to it at all! Although,I must admit,I usually only play Beecham's Fifine because of the other music on the cd,ie The Garden of Fand and the suite from Berner's The Triumph of Neptune;a piece of music which,for some reason,I really do like! (I also have the Sony/CBS recording,the EMI and the complete Marco Polo,which is marred by that labels 'bathroom' acoustics). It is interesting that Beecham's favourite piece of music by Bantock seems to have been one of his least typical efforts. It also doesn't surprise me! I am a bit of a Beecham fan,though. (I bought the Sony cd of his Elgar recordings recently).
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on April 13, 2015, 09:14:36 AM
Yes,Boughton's First is a bit of a 'clunker'! To be fair,it's an early effort,though. I also don't think much of his String quartets,either! I do wish Dutton hadn't coupled those two works......and yes,Boughton's Second would have been preferable. It would have gone down very well here anyway!! ;D As to the Handley cd. I would play that version more often if it didn't have the Fifine coupling. Although,having said that,I would still play the Downes CD because of the Bax. Funnily enough,even though it's ancient and cut,I do prefer Beecham's recording of Fifine;if I want to listen to it at all! Although,I must admit,I usually only play Beecham's Fifine because of the other music on the cd,ie The Garden of Fand and the suite from Berner's The Triumph of Neptune;a piece of music which,for some reason,I really do like! (I also have the Sony/CBS recording,the EMI and the complete Marco Polo,which is marred by that labels 'bathroom' acoustics). It is interesting that Beecham's favourite piece of music by Bantock seems to have been one of his least typical efforts. It also doesn't surprise me! I am a bit of a Beecham fan,though. (I bought the Sony cd of his Elgar recordings recently).

I quite like Fifine but also play the Beecham recording. His Sibelius No.4 is the outstanding version of that symphony in my view. I also like the Berners work and his Nicholas Nickleby film music.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: cilgwyn on April 14, 2015, 12:49:07 AM
I don't hate Fifine....I just think it's one of Bantock's least interesting pieces of music. Thalaba is another one. A great name.......but I was very disappointed by what I heard! :(
Beecham's recording of 'The Tempest' is fantastic,too! Marvelous stuff!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on April 14, 2015, 01:55:44 AM
I don't hate Fifine....I just think it's one of Bantock's least interesting pieces of music. Thalaba is another one. A great name.......but I was very disappointed by what I heard! :(
Beecham's recording of 'The Tempest' is fantastic,too! Marvelous stuff!

Yes, I agree about the Tempest although I like the Charles Groves version too. Back to Bantock, my favourite works are the Hebridean and Celtic symphonies. Do you know Omar Khayyam?

There's an interesting and entertaining Bantock discography here:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/bantock/bantdisc.htm
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: cilgwyn on April 17, 2015, 12:57:54 AM
I hope Chandos are going to record more Bantock. They say they are. They have also confirmed (more than once) that they are interested in recording Holbrooke. I do wonder if they are just being polite to their forum users,however?!!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Rons_talking on April 22, 2015, 02:58:47 AM
I heard Omar Kayyam for the first time last night and was impressed and delighted by the performance. My favorite is the Hebridean Symphony--so lyrical. I'm not sure I'd call it a symphony, however... :-X.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on April 22, 2015, 12:09:49 PM
I heard Omar Kayyam for the first time last night and was impressed and delighted by the performance. My favorite is the Hebridean Symphony--so lyrical. I'm not sure I'd call it a symphony, however... :-X.

Thank you for this. I must listen to OK ( :)). I agree about the Hebridean but also like the Celtic Symphony, which amazingly I heard live and the Pagan Symphony.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: cilgwyn on April 22, 2015, 01:10:06 PM
Yes, I agree about the Tempest although I like the Charles Groves version too. Back to Bantock, my favourite works are the Hebridean and Celtic symphonies. Do you know Omar Khayyam?

There's an interesting and entertaining Bantock discography here:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/bantock/bantdisc.htm
My apologies,Vandermolen. I'll come back to you on this point!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Xanthë on November 12, 2015, 10:20:05 PM
From the Chandos CD liner notes to Vernon Handley’s Omar Khayyám:
Quote
“Owing to the exceptional length of Omar Khayyam, Bantock authorized various cuts and alternative truncated passages in Parts I and II. In this recording, a small number of these have been observed, always with the concern to ensure minimum disruption to the narrative flow.”

I’ve been having a detailed listen to Omar Khayyám – but Norman Del Mar’s 1979 account – which is quite splendid, and very close to complete; Del Mar’s team of soloists in Walker, Rolfe Johnson and Rayner Cook are superb. Like many of the BBC’s 70s/80s recordings for radio broadcast, I wonder why it has never been issued to CD; I would also be interested if anyone has any further thoughts on the controversy with regard to the much larger series of cuts in the later Chandos recording under Vernon Handley. What I’ve heard of excerpts of Handley, the recording quality is exemplary and it really ought to be the benchmark version of the work.

Fortunately the vocal score of the work is very easy to come by on the web (I don’t know if I’m allowed to link IMSLP (http://imslp.org/wiki/Omar_Khayy%C3%A1m_%28Bantock,_Granville%29) seeing as Bantock is nominally under copyright in the EU until 2016? A good thing he’s in the public domain where I’m located.) and only Part One has any markings that indicate cuts; it appears Breitkopf & Härtel reissued the exact same plates for the most part, but in some places had to substitute replacement pages as a result of some of the larger cuts.

The authorised cuts to Part One in the score appear to be —
• 2 bars omitted in the middle of quatrain XXXI (orchestra only)
• 1 bar omitted in quatrain XXXII (orchestra only)
• 4 bars omitted in quatrain XXXIV (a repetition of the full chorus singing “The Me within Thee blind”, probably requiring a new page 156 to have been re-typeset – and page 155 is now entirely superfluous)
• 3 bars omitted after quatrain XXXV
• 2 cuts of 6 and 2 bars in quatrain XXXVI (removing some the baritone soloist’s repetition)
• 8 bars interlude omitted between quatrains XL and XLI (orchestra only)
• 2 bars interlude omitted between quatrains XLIII and XLIV (orchestra only)
• 27 bars interlude omitted between quatrains XLV and XLVI (orchestra only, again requiring an entire page (184) to be re-set, and the following page (185) being rendered completely redundant)
• 12 bars introduction omitted to quatrain XLIX after the end of the long ‘Desert’ section (orchestra only)

The new typesetting has created two anomalies in the bar numbering – there are two bar 1309s on each of page 155 and 156, while bar 1552 on page 184 is followed by the [omitted] bar 1560 on the next page! By my arithmetic these ten cuts amount to some 67 bars out of 2124 in Part One, 1001 in Part Two, and 643 in Part Three. There are no cuts whatsoever indicated in the B&H scores of Parts 2 and 3 (or maybe any cuts were never incorporated in a subsequent printing of the score?), and none are observed by Del Mar aside from the 67 bars marked in the B&H score of Part 1; most crucially, none of these cuts result in the text of Edward Fitzgerald’s 101 quatrains being excised, there being only two instances of sung repetitions featuring in the omissions.

As was indicated by a very dissatisfied sponsor of the Chandos recording, a number of passages have been omitted including whole slabs of the sung text – and hearing the passages in question in Del Mar’s recording, I am left pondering why they would be omitted:
• Quatrain VII in total is a substantial movement over 100 bars long (the cut would have to encompass bars 325–428)
• All but the first phrase of quatrain X would mean the cut is a short movement for the double choir, Allegretto leggiero con moto (bars 489–515 at least, without an obvious place to ‘end’ the cut)
• Quatrain XVI for soprano and alto double chorus (bars 721–748)
• Quatrain XVIII for full chorus (bars 781–807), followed by an exquisite Tranquillamente coda extending to bar 843, which is exactly where Bantock did authorise the work could be broken for an interval and restarted (but not really a very economic place for changing the CD over!).
• Quatrain XXIII for chorus, Vivo non troppo (bars 921–992)
• Quatrains XXXVIII and XLIX for chorus (bars 1392–1431)
• The 182-bar orchestral Interlude that opens Part Two
• Quatrains LXVI and LXVI for the tenor soloist and chorus respectively (bars 2630–2768)

Losing almost nine whole quatrains out of FitzGerald’s 101, along with a substantial orchestral interlude or two or three, seems to add up to in excess of 500 bars (on top of the 67 bars apparently authorised to be cut from Part One, that Del Mar observed back in 1979). I really cannot account for failing to record these sections except because of reasons of false economy (three CDs is more than enough room to record 175 minutes of music) or questionable personal taste, which at the end of the day is very much à chaçun son goût.

For example, I might be inclined to hypothetically argue that perhaps quatrains X, XVI, and XXIII aren’t amongst Bantock’s strongest responses to the text (in XXIII, there’s a rhythmic 2 against 3 percussion ostinato that just doesn’t work for me and detracts from appreciating the rest of the music). This would not provide me with sufficient reason to omit it entirely in an account of the composition. Other of the cuts are surely unconscionable – the orchestral Interlude from Part Two is an ideal ‘pick me up’ to carry on with restored energy, after the draining epic of Part One and its final blasting invocations of ‘Waste not your hour.’ The omission of quatrains LXVI and LXVI not only rob the tenor and chorus, but this short section contains some visionary orchestral music, after the tenor describes ‘I sent my Soul through the Invisible, Some letter of that After-life to spell:’ and falls silent; Bantock has the orchestra undertake such a strange journey into the inexpressible, before the soloist finishes the verse.

What do commenters here think?
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Maestro267 on December 15, 2015, 04:09:20 AM
I absolutely love what I've heard of Bantock's music, through the Handley recordings. What wonderful orchestral soundscapes he conjures! His tone poem Thalaba the Destroyer is without question my favourite British work in the form. It has the heroic feeling of such works as Tchaikovsky's Manfred and Glière's Il'ya Muromets symphony. Earlier in the summer I bought the Hebridean and Celtic Symphonies recording. Both symphonies are stunning, with the Celtic another great addition to the rich repertoire of English works for string orchestra. The mystic harmonies in the introduction and the conclusion to the Hebridean Symphony remind me of one of my favourite passages towards the end of The Firebird, and the epilogue to RVW's London Symphony.

I've now ordered a fifth Bantock disc, with the Pagan Symphony, Fifine at the Fair (both substantial works at 35 mins each), and two brief Heroic Ballads.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on December 15, 2015, 05:50:41 AM
I absolutely love what I've heard of Bantock's music, through the Handley recordings. What wonderful orchestral soundscapes he conjures! His tone poem Thalaba the Destroyer is without question my favourite British work in the form. It has the heroic feeling of such works as Tchaikovsky's Manfred and Glière's Il'ya Muromets symphony. Earlier in the summer I bought the Hebridean and Celtic Symphonies recording. Both symphonies are stunning, with the Celtic another great addition to the rich repertoire of English works for string orchestra. The mystic harmonies in the introduction and the conclusion to the Hebridean Symphony remind me of one of my favourite passages towards the end of The Firebird, and the epilogue to RVW's London Symphony.

I've now ordered a fifth Bantock disc, with the Pagan Symphony, Fifine at the Fair (both substantial works at 35 mins each), and two brief Heroic Ballads.
You will love that CD. It featured, some years ago in BBC Music Magazine's 'Top 1000 CDs' as their Choice for Bantock. You will recognise the Heroic Ballads from the Hebridean Symphony - it is indeed a wonderful disc. On a separate note the Epilogue of Vaughan Williams's London Symphony is even more affecting in the 1913 and recently released 1920 version (Dutton CD) as these versions include IMHO the most moving section of the Symphony which Vaughan Williams unfortunately excised from the score in 1936.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Maestro267 on December 15, 2015, 07:18:33 AM
On a separate note the Epilogue of Vaughan Williams's London Symphony is even more affecting in the 1913 and recently released 1920 version (Dutton CD) as these versions include IMHO the most moving section of the Symphony which Vaughan Williams unfortunately excised from the score in 1936.

I was thinking of the 1913 version when I compared it. That passage sounds to me like it inspired Bax when he came to write his own symphonic epilogues, which are equally wonderful imo.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on December 15, 2015, 12:48:22 PM
I was thinking of the 1913 version when I compared it. That passage sounds to me like it inspired Bax when he came to write his own symphonic epilogues, which are equally wonderful imo.
You could well be right. Bax was one of those who complained to VW about the cuts he made, including to the Epilogue, in 1936. On a separate note I came across a fine Bantock piece today. This is 'Two Choruses' which appear as a coupling to Vaughan Williams's 'Incidental Music to the Radio-Play Pilgrim's Progress' (broadcast 1943), released on Albion Records recently. The Bantock works only last in total under eight minutes (in a double CD set) but I really liked Bantock's setting of 'In Praise of Famous Men' (from Ecclesiasticus). It reminded me of Novak's 'The Storm' which is one of my favourite choral works. The recording of the Bantock is from 1929 but this posed no problem for me and added to the historic atmosphere:

Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Daverz on December 15, 2015, 06:21:09 PM
Thalaba the Destroyer is without question my favourite British work in the form.

Hmmm, I've never paid much attention to Thalaba.  From the title, it sounds like I should wait until the neighbors are not home to play at optimal playback volume.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock's ghost says ....
Post by: Scion7 on April 03, 2016, 05:33:31 AM
. . . "I wrote chamber music, too!!"

Two Meditations for Violin & Piano, unpub
String Qt in c, 1900, arr. str orch as In the Far West, 1912;
Sonata, vc, pf, 1900 - early draft, rev. 1940;
Pibroch, for Harp and Cello, 1917;
Sonata for Viola & Piano, 1919;
Elegiac Poem for vc (or vn) & Piano, 1900;
Fanfare for 4 Trumpets, 1921;
Sonata for Cello solo in g, 1924;
Salve Regina, string trio, 1924;
Sonata for Violin & Piano #1, 1929;
Sonata for Violin & Piano #2, 1930;
Pagan Poem, for Flute & Piano, 1930;
String Quartet ‘In a Chinese Mirror’, 1933;
Sonata for Violin & Piano in C (No.3), 1940;
Cello Sonata in b, 1940;
Cello Sonata in f#, 1944;
Sonata for Cello & Piano, 1945

     (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71qrQBIUxGL._SY450_.jpg)  <-- performed on Gustav Holtz's viola, if that is important to you  :)

      Piano Music
Grand Galop for Piano; unpub
Allegro in g for Piano; unpub
Polonaise for Piano; unpub
Piano Album-Rhapsody, Meditation, Fantasie;
Twelve Piano pieces;
Melody in Eb for Piano;
Two Albums for Piano-Silhouettes, Miniatures;
Two Piano pieces-Reverie in Eb, Barcarolle in f;
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Scion7 on April 03, 2016, 03:57:22 PM
btw, the Pagan Poem for flute and piano (1930) is one of the most successful pieces of its type - lovely, mystic . . .
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: cilgwyn on April 20, 2016, 04:53:56 AM
Yes, I agree about the Tempest although I like the Charles Groves version too. Back to Bantock, my favourite works are the Hebridean and Celtic symphonies. Do you know Omar Khayyam?

There's an interesting and entertaining Bantock discography here:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/bantock/bantdisc.htm

I did say I would reply,and it's taken a while (apologies,I've been offline since my,horrid old pc broke down.....thank goodness,in a way,I might add!!)  but I must admit I just can't get anywhere much with Bantock's Omar Khayyam! I have tried!!! The recording I have is the Radio 3 recording,courtesy of the Art Music Forum. I see it's being released by Lyrita as part of a 4cd set. Wow! I could almost buy it for the cover art!! Bad news you've got to wait until July,vandermolen! ;D

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Granville-Bantock-Complete-Omar-Khayy%C3%A1m/dp/B01E8UMOFQ/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1461160510&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=bantock+omar+khayyam
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: cilgwyn on April 20, 2016, 05:09:06 AM
That's a lovely cd of chamber music by Bantock and Holbrooke Scion7. I've got it and I like the Holbrooke too. I seem to be in a minority who actually like allot of Holbrooke's music! If anyone else here does,this is,imo,the most enyoyable version of 'The Grasshopper',in it's various guises I also like the other  EM cd with Bantock's Sonata No 3,the Cyril Scott Sonata for Viola and Piano (1953) and the Roger Sacheverell Coke Sonata No1 for Violin and Piano,which,like the Piano music on the Somm cd of Coke,is a fantastic and fascinating find. Both these EM cds are thoroughly recommendable. The booklet notes included with the Bantock Scott Coke cd is particularly fine with some nice photos;one of them showing Bantock.Holbrooke and Scott,looking very dapper indeed,in front of Harlech Castle c1919. (Have you seen that one vandermolen?!) And,judging from the booklet notes with the EM & Somm cd and the photos therein,there's a whole movie waiting to be made about Coke. What a story!!

Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Maestro267 on September 18, 2016, 01:32:53 AM
Two reasons to resurrect this thread:

1. Has anyone heard the Lyrita recording of Omar Khayyam? Thoughts?

2. We're approaching the 70th anniversary of his death, in October.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock's ghost says ....
Post by: cilgwyn on September 18, 2016, 03:13:06 AM
. . . "I wrote chamber music, too!!"

Two Meditations for Violin & Piano, unpub
String Qt in c, 1900, arr. str orch as In the Far West, 1912;
Sonata, vc, pf, 1900 - early draft, rev. 1940;
Pibroch, for Harp and Cello, 1917;
Sonata for Viola & Piano, 1919;
Elegiac Poem for vc (or vn) & Piano, 1900;
Fanfare for 4 Trumpets, 1921;
Sonata for Cello solo in g, 1924;
Salve Regina, string trio, 1924;
Sonata for Violin & Piano #1, 1929;
Sonata for Violin & Piano #2, 1930;
Pagan Poem, for Flute & Piano, 1930;
String Quartet ‘In a Chinese Mirror’, 1933;
Sonata for Violin & Piano in C (No.3), 1940;
Cello Sonata in b, 1940;
Cello Sonata in f#, 1944;
Sonata for Cello & Piano, 1945

     (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71qrQBIUxGL._SY450_.jpg)  <-- performed on Gustav Holtz's viola, if that is important to you  :)

      Piano Music
Grand Galop for Piano; unpub
Allegro in g for Piano; unpub
Polonaise for Piano; unpub
Piano Album-Rhapsody, Meditation, Fantasie;
Twelve Piano pieces;
Melody in Eb for Piano;
Two Albums for Piano-Silhouettes, Miniatures;
Two Piano pieces-Reverie in Eb, Barcarolle in f;
I have to say,I think that is a fantastic cd. The booklet is first class too!
I also like the other EM cd with Bantock,Scott and Sacheverell Coke on it. Incidentally,and for anyone who does like Holbrooke,;Cpo are releasing a cd of his Violin Concerto (The grasshopper) in it's orchestral guise (and some other works) at the end of this month. You can see it on the Jpc website now. Nice Cpo choice of artwork (imho) as usual!

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/joseph-holbrooke-violinkonzert-op-59-the-grasshopper/hnum/4100515 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/joseph-holbrooke-violinkonzert-op-59-the-grasshopper/hnum/4100515)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: cilgwyn on September 18, 2016, 03:30:18 AM
Two reasons to resurrect this thread:

1. Has anyone heard the Lyrita recording of Omar Khayyam? Thoughts?

2. We're approaching the 70th anniversary of his death, in October.
I'll repeat this post. I must admit I'm not too keen on this work. (I don't have the cd set;but I do have an off air recording.) But that's just me! ::) Some people regard it as Bantock's greatest work. I prefer his orchestral works. The Pagan Symphony being my favourite. Incidentally,and I know I'm in the minority here.......I actually prefer Holbrooke!! ??? ;D And thank you Cpo for coming up trumps. Two new Holbrooke cd's?!!! :o :o
It would be nice if some cd label would record some more Bantock. Perhaps Vernon Handley's magnificent Hyperion recordings have put them off a bit? They feel they couldn't do anything that would be as good? Or maybe it is just funding? There are interesting sounding works that remain unrecorded. I recently enjoyed the two excerpts from his Pilgrims Progress,that were coupled with Vaughan Williams on the Albion label. The sound quality was pretty good for the late nineteen twenties!! I feel this might be an interesting work to record,if the rest is as good?!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on September 20, 2016, 11:10:10 AM
I have the new Lyrita but have not listened to it properly yet (it is four CDs). I partly wanted it for the orchestral fillers, especially Fifine at the Fair which is a fine score despite its unpromising title. The Celtic, Hebriddean and Pagan symphonies are my favourites by Bantock.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Mirror Image on September 20, 2016, 06:29:30 PM
The Celtic, Hebriddean and Pagan symphonies are my favourites by Bantock.

I'm inclined to agree with you here, but, even though it's length keeps it from being anywhere near substantial, I really love the rush I get from The Sea Reivers.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Maestro267 on September 20, 2016, 11:42:37 PM
My favourite Bantock work rotates frequently between the Hebridean Symphony and Thalaba the Destroyer.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on September 21, 2016, 06:03:21 AM
My favourite Bantock work rotates frequently between the Hebridean Symphony and Thalaba the Destroyer.
Yes, Thalaba the Destroyer (great title!) is a fine work too.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: SymphonicAddict on January 13, 2017, 10:55:10 PM
I just listened to A Celtic Symphony. A fine example of nature beauty, beautiful and strong warriors, dances with the sea waves, evocative in her most! This was a splendid experience! I enjoy each second of this wonder
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: SymphonicAddict on January 13, 2017, 11:23:38 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqpgjQE1GWQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqpgjQE1GWQ)

Interesting documentary about his life and work
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on January 14, 2017, 10:55:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqpgjQE1GWQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqpgjQE1GWQ)

Interesting documentary about his life and work

Very interesting documentary - thanks for posting it.
I agree that works like the Hebridean Symphony and Celtic Symphony should be far better known. I was very fortunate to hear the latter live in concert a couple of years ago. The fact than Bantock asks for eight harps in the score (I think) makes it difficult to put on, otherwise I'm sure that it would be much better known - as it should be. His Pagan Symphony is another work I like very much. The fact that Sibelius's Third Symphony is dedicated to Bantock tells us something about his stature in the early Twentieth Century. I was fascinated to hear, in the documentary, that he had played chess with Prokofiev when the Russian composer visited Birmingham!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: Scion7 on January 15, 2017, 11:01:52 AM
Interesting. Thanks.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock
Post by: vandermolen on January 21, 2017, 02:46:29 AM
It's odd but I prefer the Naxos version of the Hebridean Symphony with Adrian Leaper conducting the Czechoslovak Philharmonic Orchestra to Vernon Handley's polished and award winning recording on Hyperion. Maybe this is because it has a more rough-and-ready feel to it which I think suits the music and I find it more atmospheric. Also I came to know and admire this symphony through an LP where it was performed by the Hull City Youth Orchestra and maybe the Naxos reminds me of that. Adrian Leaper gets very good results with lesser-known orchestras, for example his excellent recording of Walton's First Symphony with the Orchestra of Grand Canary:


Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: cilgwyn on January 21, 2017, 04:03:28 AM
Very interesting! His Holbrooke Marco Polo recordings have got some drubbings,but I find the performances have an atmosphere and conviction  that in their rough and ready way,seem to missing from the more polished Cpo recordings,which ARE very good by the way!!
Going back to the Bantock! ;D I remember when I heard the Hyperion recording the brass just seem to blaze out. They sounded like muffled raspberries on the Marco Polo recording,by comparison. Subsequently,I disposed of the Marco Polo cd with Father Christmas on the front!!
In hindsight,I think you may be right? Maybe there was more of a feeling for mystery and atmosphere in the earlier recording? It won't break the bank to pick this up secondhand and find out!!
I still prefer the old Hull Youth recordings of Brian's In Memoriam and Festal Dance (with that wacky piano) by the way.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: cilgwyn on January 21, 2017, 05:55:19 AM
I was thinking ;D.....to pinch your wording......."it's odd but I (think) I prefer this version of the Pagan Symphony to Vernon Handley's more "polished" Hyperion recording. The 'fill-ups' certainly make it for me,anyway! Tintagel,the Northern Ballads 2 & 3. Absolutely excellent choices. They all have that legendary atmosphere. A wonderful,escapist collection of late romanticism. I also like his performances of Rutland Boughton symphonies on the same label. Boughton's Second Symphony is a lovely work,which also shares that legendary quality,evoking a remote,mystic past, The second movement is particularly beautiful. On this basis,I only wish Edward Downes could have recorded more of this repertoire.

(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/41AIcXf30EL_zpsynewjxmh.jpg)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: vandermolen on January 21, 2017, 02:16:30 PM
Very interesting! His Holbrooke Marco Polo recordings have got some drubbings,but I find the performances have an atmosphere and conviction  that in their rough and ready way,seem to missing from the more polished Cpo recordings,which ARE very good by the way!!
Going back to the Bantock! ;D I remember when I heard the Hyperion recording the brass just seem to blaze out. They sounded like muffled raspberries on the Marco Polo recording,by comparison. Subsequently,I disposed of the Marco Polo cd with Father Christmas on the front!!
In hindsight,I think you may be right? Maybe there was more of a feeling for mystery and atmosphere in the earlier recording? It won't break the bank to pick this up secondhand and find out!!
I still prefer the old Hull Youth recordings of Brian's In Memoriam and Festal Dance (with that wacky piano) by the way.
Thanks for the response. I wish the Hull Youth Orchestra version of the Hebridean Symphony was on CD like the Leicestershire Youth Orchestra recordings of Havergal Brian. I think that Leaper's Czechoslovak recording of the Hebridean Symphony conveys a greater sense of discovery than the Hyperion recording, although that is a very fine disc.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: vandermolen on January 21, 2017, 02:19:14 PM
I was thinking ;D.....to pinch your wording......."it's odd but I (think) I prefer this version of the Pagan Symphony to Vernon Handley's more "polished" Hyperion recording. The 'fill-ups' certainly make it for me,anyway! Tintagel,the Northern Ballads 2 & 3. Absolutely excellent choices. They all have that legendary atmosphere. A wonderful,escapist collection of late romanticism. I also like his performances of Rutland Boughton symphonies on the same label. Boughton's Second Symphony is a lovely work,which also shares that legendary quality,evoking a remote,mystic past, The second movement is particularly beautiful. On this basis,I only wish Edward Downes could have recorded more of this repertoire.

(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r688/dinasman/41AIcXf30EL_zpsynewjxmh.jpg)
I'm inclined to agree with you. This was one of the rare successes in the BBC Radio Classics series along with Rozhdestvensky's fine recording of Vaughan Williams's 5th Symphony and Sancta Civitas.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 06, 2018, 08:36:43 PM
Happy birthday Granville!!!

The world has focused on Debussy and Bernstein to celebrate their anniversaries, but I haven't seen anything about Bantock, who would be 150 years old this year. This composer is special to me because of his extremely fine craftsmanship on A Celtic Symphony. Works in a similar vein would be the Vaughan Williams' Fantasia on a theme by Thomas Tallis, Tippett's Fantasia concertante on a theme by Corelli and Alwyn's Lyra Angelica. I'm in love with the Celtic, one of my last pieces when dying (and I'm not exaggerating  8)).

I would be very pleased if Chandos, Hyperion or other advocate label recorded his other works such as these ones (the list is taken from Wikipedia):

-Tone Poem No. 4, Hudibras
-Tone Poem No. 6, Lalla Rookh
-Symphonic Overture with organ
-Old English Suite for small orchestra
-From the Far West for strings
-In the Far East, Serenade for strings
-Scottish Rhapsody (1913)
-Scenes from the Scottish Highlands,
-Suite for strings
-The Land of the Gael, Suite for strings
-Four Chinese Landscapes (1936)
-Aphrodite in Cyprus, Symphonic Ode
-Macbeth Overture
-Comedy Overture, Circus Life
-Elegiac Poem for cello and orchestra
-Celtic Poem for cello and orchestra
-Dramatic Poem for cello and orchestra
-Christus, a Festival Symphony
-The Time Spirit, rhapsody for chorus and orchestra
-Sea Wanderers, poem for chorus and orchestra
-The Song of Liberty for solo voices, chorus and orchestra
-The Great God Pan, a Choral Ballet for solo voices, chorus and orchestra
-The Song of Songs for soloists, double chorus and orchestra
-The Pilgrim's Progress for solo voices, chorus and orchestra
-Prometheus Unbound for chorus and orchestra
-King Solomon for chorus, narrator and orchestra

Some suggestive titles just sound fascinating, so, what are, you labels, waiting for?  ;D
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: vandermolen on August 07, 2018, 12:29:48 AM
Happy birthday Granville!!!

The world has focused on Debussy and Bernstein to celebrate their anniversaries, but I haven't seen anything about Bantock, who would be 150 years old this year. This composer is special to me because of his extremely fine craftsmanship on A Celtic Symphony. Works in a similar vein would be the Vaughan Williams' Fantasia on a theme by Thomas Tallis, Tippett's Fantasia concertante on a theme by Corelli and Alwyn's Lyra Angelica. I'm in love with the Celtic, one of my last pieces when dying (and I'm not exaggerating  8)).

I would be very pleased if Chandos, Hyperion or other advocate label recorded his other works such as these ones (the list is taken from Wikipedia):

-Tone Poem No. 4, Hudibras
-Tone Poem No. 6, Lalla Rookh
-Symphonic Overture with organ
-Old English Suite for small orchestra
-From the Far West for strings
-In the Far East, Serenade for strings
-Scottish Rhapsody (1913)
-Scenes from the Scottish Highlands,
-Suite for strings
-The Land of the Gael, Suite for strings
-Four Chinese Landscapes (1936)
-Aphrodite in Cyprus, Symphonic Ode
-Macbeth Overture
-Comedy Overture, Circus Life
-Elegiac Poem for cello and orchestra
-Celtic Poem for cello and orchestra
-Dramatic Poem for cello and orchestra
-Christus, a Festival Symphony
-The Time Spirit, rhapsody for chorus and orchestra
-Sea Wanderers, poem for chorus and orchestra
-The Song of Liberty for solo voices, chorus and orchestra
-The Great God Pan, a Choral Ballet for solo voices, chorus and orchestra
-The Song of Songs for soloists, double chorus and orchestra
-The Pilgrim's Progress for solo voices, chorus and orchestra
-Prometheus Unbound for chorus and orchestra
-King Solomon for chorus, narrator and orchestra

Some suggestive titles just sound fascinating, so, what are, you labels, waiting for?  ;D
Yes, Happy Birthday from me too. The Celtic Symphony was performed at the Proms a few years ago (actually 2013 - just checked). I was fortunate enough to be there and saw and heard all those harps!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Biffo on August 07, 2018, 01:29:49 AM
I went though a Bantock phase a few years ago and bought several of the Hyperion releases including the complete Omar Khayyam. I found the results mixed; I enjoyed each piece as I listened to it but didn't find anything (with one exception) particularly memorable. Perhaps it all needs revisiting. The exception is the Celtic Symphony which really is beautiful; I think it is the sort of thing Classic FM would take up and flog to death.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: vandermolen on August 07, 2018, 08:09:07 AM
I went though a Bantock phase a few years ago and bought several of the Hyperion releases including the complete Omar Khayyam. I found the results mixed; I enjoyed each piece as I listened to it but didn't find anything (with one exception) particularly memorable. Perhaps it all needs revisiting. The exception is the Celtic Symphony which really is beautiful; I think it is the sort of thing Classic FM would take up and flog to death.
I agree about the Celtic Symphony but also like the Hebridean and Pagan symphonies.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 07, 2018, 11:58:20 AM
A Celtic Symphony has a special place in my heart. It's one of those things you can't forget once heard. It's a dream of mine, attending a performance of this work at least once. The rest of his symphonies is very fine, too, but not as memorable as the Celtic.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: kyjo on August 08, 2018, 06:42:12 AM
The only Bantock works I know are the ones contained on this excellent CD:



I agree with previous posters that the Celtic Symphony is especially beautiful. The Hebridean Symphony and The Witch of Atlas are both atmospheric and superbly orchestrated but rather less memorable. The big surprise on the disc was the 3 1/2 minute Hebridean Sea Poem No. 2: The Sea Reivers, a scherzo-like work with builds up an impressive head of steam to a riveting ending. I wish it were longer!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: vandermolen on August 08, 2018, 08:16:06 AM
The only Bantock works I know are the ones contained on this excellent CD:



I agree with previous posters that the Celtic Symphony is especially beautiful. The Hebridean Symphony and The Witch of Atlas are both atmospheric and superbly orchestrated but rather less memorable. The big surprise on the disc was the 3 1/2 minute Hebridean Sea Poem No. 2: The Sea Reivers, a scherzo-like work with builds up an impressive head of steam to a riveting ending. I wish it were longer!

If you're going to have only one Bantock CD that is the one to have Kyle!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Maestro267 on August 09, 2018, 10:19:30 PM
The Sea Reivers was originally intended to be part of the Hebridean Symphony. The Symphony is without question my favourite work of Bantock's.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: vandermolen on August 10, 2018, 12:14:19 AM
The Sea Reivers was originally intended to be part of the Hebridean Symphony. The Symphony is without question my favourite work of Bantock's.

The Hebridean is a fine work and, along with the Celtic Symphony, my favourite of Bantock's works. I also like the Pagan Symphony.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Maestro267 on August 11, 2018, 12:11:01 PM
Thalaba the Destroyer was the first work of Bantock's I got into. It's an epic work, worthy to be alongside the "heroic" B minor symphonies by Tchaikovsky ("Manfred") and Gliére ("Il'ya Muromets").

The only disc of the Hyperion series I've yet to pick up is Sappho/Sapphic Poem. I'd also like to get the Lyrita recording of Omar Khayyam, as that is the complete rendition of the work, unlike the cut Chandos recording.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 11, 2018, 12:23:49 PM
Thalaba the Destroyer was the first work of Bantock's I got into. It's an epic work, worthy to be alongside the "heroic" B minor symphonies by Tchaikovsky ("Manfred") and Gliére ("Il'ya Muromets").

The only disc of the Hyperion series I've yet to pick up is Sappho/Sapphic Poem. I'd also like to get the Lyrita recording of Omar Khayyam, as that is the complete rendition of the work, unlike the cut Chandos recording.

Don't forget to include the epic Langgaard's 1st Symphony in B minor in your list  :)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: vandermolen on August 11, 2018, 01:24:54 PM
I quite like Symphony 3 'The Cyprian Goddess' as well.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Maestro267 on August 12, 2018, 09:27:26 AM
Don't forget to include the epic Langgaard's 1st Symphony in B minor in your list  :)

Oh yes! Another fantastic work I've discovered in recent months.  :)

Also, I need to give Symphony No. 3 another go. It's been a little while.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: André on December 28, 2018, 02:14:42 PM
Quote
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61jza-xJ2vL.jpg)

Discs 3 and 4

Part III of Omar Khayyám; Fifine at the Fair (tone poem for orchestra after Robert Browning); Sappho, songs for contralto and orchestra (6 out of a cycle of 9); The Pierrot of the Minute, a « comedy overture ».

This completes my Bantock Project for this year. In 2017 I delved  into the 6 discs Hyperion set of the tone poems and symphonies. At first that had seemed to me rather daunting, but the music is so consistently fine and original that I was thrilled to have added that set - and composer - to my collection. Bantock’s imagination seems to know no bounds, finding fertile ground in all kinds of tales and legends. So, moving from there to the more arcane and even more daunting Omar Khayyám seemed lime the logical next step.

While listening to the first part (93 minutes of music) I thought that it might have been a good idea for Bantock to arrange some kind of digest - say, 45 minutes - of his music. Bantock did indeed arrange bits and parts into other musical formats, but it didn’t help arouse interest for the complete work. But persevering paid off handsomely, the music proving extremely rewarding, its inspiration constantly renewed and the cumulative effect proving quite addictive.

101 quatrains and 3 hours of nonstop singing is indeed quite a lot to swallow in one sitting. It’s not like there is any narrative continuity to the stanzas of Edward Fitzgerald’s poems. The fascinating booklet notes describe the huge popularity and influence of this collection. It was even printed in cheapo paperback editions for mass consumption. But eventually the novelty effect of this literary exotica faded and it became increasingly difficult to sell Bantock’s Omar Khayyám to the listening public, although it had some ardent advocacy from Havergal Brian, Ernest Newman and Henry Wood. Bantock died in 1946 and it fell to his wife Helena (cf. the Helena Variations) to keep the flame flickering.

Bantock’s Omar was completed in 1909. It enjoyed a modest popularity but, due to changing tastes and the difficulty of mounting a complete performance, it ceased to be performed after 1931. The BBC producer Michael Pope developed a lifelong fascination with Bantock’s Omar. He ceaselessly petitioned for a performance and broadcast of the complete work. It took him 11 years to see his wish come true. In 1979 this BBC production was broadcast and recorded with Norman del Mar and the fine singers listed above.

I can certainly imagine a better recorded version, but what we have here is very decent broadcast stereo. The singing could hardly be bettered, I think, particularly the plangent and sweet tenor of Anthony Rolfe Johnson.

The main offering is then followed by a performance of Bantock’s Robert Browning fantasy Fifine at the Fair (what a whacko title!). It just so happens this is my 3rd Fifine, after Handley’s and one by Beecham. Very nice music. There follows a 3/4 complete version of Bantock’s Sappho fragments (43 minutes). The orchestral prelude and 6 songs are recorded. Del Mar is at the helm again and we hear the deep, deep voice of contralto Johanna Peters. I found the music here absolutely gorgeous. The whole set, lasting about an hour, has been recorded on Hyperion. I must explore that.

Finally, Bantock in light music vein: The Pierrot of the Minute comedy overture depicts the dream adventures of a character who falls asleep in a park next to a statue of Cupid. Cute stuff, and a nice send-off to a superb set of music by this most imaginative composer.

Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: vandermolen on December 28, 2018, 02:31:21 PM


This completes my Bantock Project for this year. In 2017 I delved  into the 6 discs Hyperion set of the tone poems and symphonies. At first that had seemed to me rather daunting, but the music is so consistently fine and original that I was thrilled to have added that set - and composer - to my collection. Bantock’s imagination seems to know no bounds, finding fertile ground in all kinds of tales and legends. So, moving from there to the more arcane and even more daunting Omar Khayyám seemed lime the logical next step.

While listening to the first part (93 minutes of music) I thought that it might have been a good idea for Bantock to arrange some kind of digest - say, 45 minutes - of his music. Bantock did indeed arrange bits and parts into other musical formats, but it didn’t help arouse interest for the complete work. But persevering paid off handsomely, the music proving extremely rewarding, its inspiration constantly renewed and the cumulative effect proving quite addictive.

101 quatrains and 3 hours of nonstop singing is indeed quite a lot to swallow in one sitting. It’s not like there is any narrative continuity to the stanzas of Edward Fitzgerald’s poems. The fascinating booklet notes describe the huge popularity and influence of this collection. It was even printed in cheapo paperback editions for mass consumption. But eventually the novelty effect of this literary exotica faded and it became increasingly difficult to sell Bantock’s Omar Khayyám to the listening public, although it had some ardent advocacy from Havergal Brian, Ernest Newman and Henry Wood. Bantock died in 1946 and it fell to his wife Helena (cf. the Helena Variations) to keep the flame flickering.

Bantock’s Omar was completed in 1909. It enjoyed a modest popularity but, due to changing tastes and the difficulty of mounting a complete performance, it ceased to be performed after 1931. The BBC producer Michael Pope developed a lifelong fascination with Bantock’s Omar. He ceaselessly petitioned for a performance and broadcast of the complete work. It took him 11 years to see his wish come true. In 1979 this BBC production was broadcast and recorded with Norman del Mar and the fine singers listed above.

I can certainly imagine a better recorded version, but what we have here is very decent broadcast stereo. The singing could hardly be bettered, I think, particularly the plangent and sweet tenor of Anthony Rolfe Johnson.

The main offering is then followed by a performance of Bantock’s Robert Browning fantasy Fifine at the Fair (what a whacko title!). It just so happens this is my 3rd Fifine, after Handley’s and one by Beecham. Very nice music. There follows a 3/4 complete version of Bantock’s Sappho fragments (43 minutes). The orchestral prelude and 6 songs are recorded. Del Mar is at the helm again and we hear the deep, deep voice of contralto Johanna Peters. I found the music here absolutely gorgeous. The whole set, lasting about an hour, has been recorded on Hyperion. I must explore that.

Finally, Bantock in light music vein: The Pierrot of the Minute comedy overture depicts the dream adventures of a character who falls asleep in a park next to a statue of Cupid. Cute stuff, and a nice send-off to a superb set of music by this most imaginative composer.
Great analysis Andre and very helpful. Encourages me to listen to a set I purchased ages ago!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Papy Oli on June 16, 2020, 05:07:43 AM
bumpity bump !  0:)

I have listened to this CD of his cello music this afternoon and found it to be a little gem of an album :

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/yb/lm/n7b4mivxclmyb_600.jpg)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Irons on June 16, 2020, 05:15:53 AM
bumpity bump !  0:)

I have listened to this CD of his cello music this afternoon and found it to be a little gem of an album :

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/yb/lm/n7b4mivxclmyb_600.jpg)

You have bumped my interest, Olivier.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Papy Oli on June 16, 2020, 06:36:01 AM
You have bumped my interest, Olivier.

Good Bantock day today Lol, I'll be adding this one to future purchases as well :

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/uc/f0/urkseh74mf0uc_600.jpg)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Roasted Swan on June 16, 2020, 08:54:00 AM
Good Bantock day today Lol, I'll be adding this one to future purchases as well :

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/uc/f0/urkseh74mf0uc_600.jpg)

If you can - check this out via spotify etc before purchasing.  The playing/production/engineering is as excellent as ever from Somm but the actual music is pretty insubstantial.  Given the rich heritage of 20th Century British Piano music this is simply not in that league.  Attractive, pleasant, nice to have heard but nothing lingered long in my memory.  Its all rather "salony" - no big abstract works.  Oddly un-Bantock-like I thought!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Irons on June 16, 2020, 08:59:41 AM
Good Bantock day today Lol, I'll be adding this one to future purchases as well :

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/uc/f0/urkseh74mf0uc_600.jpg)

Intrigued by Bantock's cello sonatas Olivier, mainly as I had no idea he wrote any. So much so I have ordered a copy. Thanks for the heads up. 
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Papy Oli on June 16, 2020, 10:32:11 AM
If you can - check this out via spotify etc before purchasing.  The playing/production/engineering is as excellent as ever from Somm but the actual music is pretty insubstantial.  Given the rich heritage of 20th Century British Piano music this is simply not in that league.  Attractive, pleasant, nice to have heard but nothing lingered long in my memory.  Its all rather "salony" - no big abstract works.  Oddly un-Bantock-like I thought!

Hi RS,
I did listen to it on Qobuz before posting it. I still have found it extremely enjoyable in its own right, even if it is not the highest caliber of piano works. If anything else, the moods it conveyed hit the mark for me. 
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Irons on June 23, 2020, 05:54:47 AM
bumpity bump !  0:)

I have listened to this CD of his cello music this afternoon and found it to be a little gem of an album :

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/yb/lm/n7b4mivxclmyb_600.jpg)

It is and hats off to Dutton for rescuing the two sonatas from obscurity. A fate undeserved. The only problem for me is that one worked piqued my interest above all others, Pibroch for cello and harp. This had a hook, magic, call it what you will, that made the other works on this CD sound a tad ordinary.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Papy Oli on June 23, 2020, 06:02:31 AM
It is and hats off to Dutton for rescuing the two sonatas from obscurity. A fate undeserved. The only problem for me is that one worked piqued my interest above all others, Pibroch for cello and harp. This had a hook, magic, call it what you will, that made the other works on this CD sound a tad ordinary.

Nice one, Lol. glad you enjoyed it. I'll have to listen to it again soon. I still have some the Hyperion volumes to explore as well. I only know (and own...and enjoy...) the one with the Celtic symphony and the one with the Pagan. I need to stream the remaining volumes at some point.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: vandermolen on June 23, 2020, 10:40:28 AM
Nice one, Lol. glad you enjoyed it. I'll have to listen to it again soon. I still have some the Hyperion volumes to explore as well. I only know (and own...and enjoy...) the one with the Celtic symphony and the one with the Pagan. I need to stream the remaining volumes at some point.
Symphony No.3 'The Cyprian Goddess' is worth hearing as well Olivier.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Papy Oli on June 23, 2020, 11:32:54 AM
Symphony No.3 'The Cyprian Goddess' is worth hearing as well Olivier.

Thanks Jeffrey, I'll have a look on YT tomorrow. Remembered Hyperion recordings are on my streaming platform.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: vandermolen on June 23, 2020, 12:24:32 PM
Thanks Jeffrey, I'll have a look on YT tomorrow. Remembered Hyperion recordings are on my streaming platform.
Excellent!
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Papy Oli on June 23, 2020, 12:34:44 PM
ooh typo... I meant : they are not  :(
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Roasted Swan on June 23, 2020, 11:11:44 PM
Symphony No.3 'The Cyprian Goddess' is worth hearing as well Olivier.

+1 for this disc.  The Sappho Song Cycle is very impressive too (on another disc from this series)
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on August 21, 2021, 07:20:45 PM
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/db/8c/bw3vp34zt8cdb_600.jpg)

This new release featuring two impressive works for string orchestra by Bantock (I haven't got the Wilson yet) is just quite succesful. In the Far West is a bold serenade with expert craftsmanship and greatness, whereas Scenes from the Scottish Highlands has more rusticity and enchanting melodies. The performance and sound are exemplary. Thank CPO for this quite interesting recording. One of the reasons why it is one of my favorite recording labels.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: vandermolen on August 21, 2021, 09:58:28 PM
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/db/8c/bw3vp34zt8cdb_600.jpg)

This new release featuring two impressive works for string orchestra by Bantock (I haven't got the Wilson yet) is just quite succesful. In the Far West is a bold serenade with expert craftsmanship and greatness, whereas Scenes from the Scottish Highlands has more rusticity and enchanting melodies. The performance and sound are exemplary. Thank CPO for this quite interesting recording. One of the reasons why it is one of my favorite recording labels.
Nice cover art too. I'm sure that this CD will come my way sooner or later.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Biffo on August 22, 2021, 01:05:06 AM
Nice cover art too. I'm sure that this CD will come my way sooner or later.

The album is available on Spotify. I have had a quick listen and saved it to my library for later and more thorough listening. Sounds great.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Mirror Image on August 22, 2021, 05:49:54 AM
All of this Bantock talk reminds me I still have some of this set to listen to:

(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571142814.png)

I still have to say that so far, the only disc that I’ve enjoyed all the way through is the first one:

(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571164502.png)

But I need to get reacquainted with this composer’s style again and see what to make of it now.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: VonStupp on August 22, 2021, 05:53:39 AM
I still have to say that so far, the only disc that I’ve enjoyed all the way through is the first one:

(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571164502.png)

But I need to get reacquainted with this composer’s style again and see what to make of it now.

Of Handley's cycle on Hyperion, that is also the one that made the biggest impression on me.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Mirror Image on August 22, 2021, 05:56:54 AM
Of Handley's cycle on Hyperion, that is also the one that made the biggest impression on me.

Yes, it’s a magical disc all the way through --- I loved every work. A Celtic Symphony in particular with all those harps and strings.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: VonStupp on August 22, 2021, 05:58:37 AM
Yes, it’s a magical disc all the way through --- I loved every work. A Celtic Symphony in particular with all those harps and strings.

+1 on that thought. Although I haven't heard his Omar Khayyam on Chandos.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Mirror Image on August 22, 2021, 06:00:48 AM
+1 on that thought. Although I haven't heard his Omar Khayyam on Chandos.

Yes, this is one that I haven’t heard nor do I actually own. I might have to look into it at some point.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on August 22, 2021, 03:42:10 PM
Nice cover art too. I'm sure that this CD will come my way sooner or later.

I think it's worth listening, Jeffrey. Both works by Bantock and including the Wilson. Bostock and this German orchestra make a stunning team.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on August 22, 2021, 03:43:51 PM
The album is available on Spotify. I have had a quick listen and saved it to my library for later and more thorough listening. Sounds great.

The more impressive work is undoubtedly the Serenade In the Far West. Stunning from start to finish. And this release does full justice to the pieces. I wonder how they would if performed by British orchestras.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on August 22, 2021, 03:45:52 PM
Of Handley's cycle on Hyperion, that is also the one that made the biggest impression on me.

+2

Yes, it’s a magical disc all the way through --- I loved every work. A Celtic Symphony in particular with all those harps and strings.

I can't get enough especially of A Celtic Symphony. It's an authentic tapestry of Celtic sounds and fine filigree of themes and tunes.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: André on August 22, 2021, 04:14:00 PM
Yes, this is one that I haven’t heard nor do I actually own. I might have to look into it at some point.

There are 2 versions of it, one almost complete on 2 discs in great sound, the other absolutely complete on 4 discs (+other material, all of which is already in the Hyperion box) in quite good sound. Although this may appear like too much of a good thing, the complete Omar is a fascinating work. The treatment of the oriental subject by Bantock is luxuriant, very evocative, with some stunning moments.

The 4-disc Lyrita set is actually cheaper than the 2-cd one on Chandos.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Mirror Image on August 22, 2021, 06:12:33 PM
I can't get enough especially of A Celtic Symphony. It's an authentic tapestry of Celtic sounds and fine filigree of themes and tunes.

Same here. I think it’s a marvelous work and I’ll definitely be revisiting (probably tomorrow).

There are 2 versions of it, one almost complete on 2 discs in great sound, the other absolutely complete on 4 discs (+other material, all of which is already in the Hyperion box) in quite good sound. Although this may appear like too much of a good thing, the complete Omar is a fascinating work. The treatment of the oriental subject by Bantock is luxuriant, very evocative, with some stunning moments.

The 4-disc Lyrita set is actually cheaper than the 2-cd one on Chandos.

Thanks, Andre. I’ll probably spring for the Handley if I do decide to get it. The fidelity on the Lyrita set isn’t that great.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 22, 2021, 10:09:32 PM
Here's a quote from the Presto website:

"The first edition of Fitzgerald's verse translation of “The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyám” had been on the scene since the mid-nineteenth century. By the end of that century it had achieved fiv e editions and quasi-Shakespearean status. The quatrains are rich in quotations — extracts eventually took up multiple columns in the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations. The subject matter was also daringly anti-religious and must have had an appeal to the increasingly literate, sceptical, and professional classes. Havergal Brian quotes Ernest Newman on the subject of Bantock’s Omar: “…it brings into English secular music, for the first time, the thoughts and feelings of men brought up in the full tide of modern culture and modern humanism.”

The work is scored for three soloists, a large chorus and a very large orchestra. The strings are divided into two complete string orchestras, one on either side of the conductor, a device by which Bantock procured a number of new a nd subtle effects. In the first decade of the twentieth century no other secularphilosophical work existed on such a scale.

Omar was widely performed during the first half of the 20th century, but since Bantock’s death in 1946, performances have been dependent on anniversaries and external historic events.

This studio recording was the product of 11 years planning by a single BBC producer determined to preserve one of the most astounding choral works ever created. It remains, 37 years later, the only complete recording ever made of the work."

Some very interesting points made there.  I read the final two lines about 11 years of planning and offer (another!) prayer of thanks for the BBC.  For the music collector - and espeically anyone interested in Bantock - I think the BBC/Lyrita recording is an obligatory purchase.  I think I prefer Del Mar's performance in any case regardless of sonic quality.
Title: Re: Granville Bantock (1868-1946)
Post by: vandermolen on August 23, 2021, 11:31:58 PM
Same here. I think it’s a marvelous work and I’ll definitely be revisiting (probably tomorrow).

Thanks, Andre. I’ll probably spring for the Handley if I do decide to get it. The fidelity on the Lyrita set isn’t that great.
Big thumbs up for the Celtic Symphony - which I've seen live  0:)