Bach on the piano

Started by mn dave, November 13, 2008, 06:12:24 AM

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Florestan

Quote from: Mandryka on February 03, 2023, 08:01:05 AMIt is a transcription

Would it be possible to settle, once and for all, the matter of transcription and arrangement? Which one is which?

The way I see it, transcription applies only from one solo instrument to another: say, a piano piece transcribed for solo violin or viceversa, or a concerto for flute and orchestra transcribed for oboe and orchestra. Arrangement applies for a piece in which the original instrumentation is altered not only in kind but also in number: a piano piece arranged for violin and piano (Ysaye-Chopin), a symphony arranged for piano duet (Liszt-Beethoven), an operatic aria arranged for piano (Thalberg-|Bellini).

What say you?
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

#1141
Quote from: Mandryka on February 03, 2023, 08:01:05 AMIt is a transcription, like Busoni made transcriptions. Or it's an arrangement, like Finnissy made arrangements. Take this by Gershwin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfpzUTjBM88&ab_channel=PhillipPrimrose

and this arrangement by Michael Finnissy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHJP_DoaCoA&ab_channel=TheClassicalFun


I think Jazz people just call them renditions, and there are no 'intellectual' people who question technicality/accuracy of the term.

Slightly related topics, but does anybody still improvise in Baroque/Bach music in live/recordings today? Do you comrades like it? I imagine improvisations could be well received even today, but a modification of compositions otherwise.

Mandryka

The big problem about the (very interesting) Rodrigues is the piano sound, which is just dead, lifeless. She gets away with it in that prelude because the counterpoint and rhythms are so full of life they compensate, as it were.

@Dry Brett Kavanaugh -- yes improvisation is a big thing in baroque music today. I haven't come across any which has stuck in my mind as being special, but there's a lot of it. On the other hand, in earlier music, 14th century music for example, I think there are some tremendous improvisations on record.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#1143
Quote from: Florestan on February 03, 2023, 08:19:37 AMWould it be possible to settle, once and for all, the matter of transcription and arrangement? Which one is which?

The way I see it, transcription applies only from one solo instrument to another: say, a piano piece transcribed for solo violin or viceversa, or a concerto for flute and orchestra transcribed for oboe and orchestra. Arrangement applies for a piece in which the original instrumentation is altered not only in kind but also in number: a piano piece arranged for violin and piano (Ysaye-Chopin), a symphony arranged for piano duet (Liszt-Beethoven), an operatic aria arranged for piano (Thalberg-|Bellini).

What say you?

I just don't think the terms are very well defined, the way people use them in practice is not consistent and in English, use is all that matters -- there is nothing corresponding to the Académie Française (thank goodness!)
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Verena

Quote from: Mandryka on February 03, 2023, 08:01:05 AMIt is a transcription, like Busoni made transcriptions. Or it's an arrangement, like Finnissy made arrangements. Take this by Gershwin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfpzUTjBM88&ab_channel=PhillipPrimrose

and this arrangement by Michael Finnissy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHJP_DoaCoA&ab_channel=TheClassicalFun


Thanks Howard. Arrangement / transcription sounds excellent and captures exactly what's meant.
Don't think, but look! (PI66)

Florestan

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on February 03, 2023, 08:26:40 AMSlightly related topics, but does anybody still improvise in Baroque/Bach music in live/recordings today? Do you comrades like it? I imagine improvisations could be well received even today, but a modification of compositions otherwise.

I, for one, would more than welcome any pianist who, instead of playing a famous encore after having played a famous piano concerto, would improvise on themes from the said concerto or, even better, on a theme taken at random from a list of themes suggested before the concert by each and every member of the audience. Now, that would be something else by today's standards, although it would have been common in the first half of the 19th century.

I'm afraid, though, that improvisation in "classical" music is just as lost an art as that of writting letters.  ;D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

premont

Quote from: Florestan on February 03, 2023, 09:10:35 AMI'm afraid, though, that improvisation in "classical" music is just as lost an art as that of writting letters. 

A lot of organists keep the art of improvising alive today.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Florestan

Quote from: premont on February 03, 2023, 11:13:15 AMA lot of organists keep the art of improvising alive today.


Kudos for them and bad for me --- the (Greek, misnomer) Orthodox  Christian music is strictly vocal.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: premont on February 03, 2023, 11:13:15 AMA lot of organists keep the art of improvising alive today.


Wonderful!

Mandryka

#1149
I  first came across Tianqi Du through his Goldbergs, which I like very much. This WTC/Shostakovich concert recording also sounds very successful to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxf3-3W9kXQ&ab_channel=DannyDu

 Be sure to listen to Richter in BWV 963.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

vers la flamme

Taking recs for something good of a pianist playing Bach.

What I like is David Fray, Glenn Gould, András Schiff, Sviatoslav Richter etc. Though it's been a while since I've heard any of it.

Brahmsian

Quote from: vers la flamme on March 26, 2023, 01:15:22 PMTaking recs for something good of a pianist playing Bach.

What I like is David Fray, Glenn Gould, András Schiff, Sviatoslav Richter etc. Though it's been a while since I've heard any of it.

I do really enjoy Angela Hewitt for Bach on the piano.

George

Quote from: vers la flamme on March 26, 2023, 01:15:22 PMTaking recs for something good of a pianist playing Bach.

What I like is David Fray, Glenn Gould, András Schiff, Sviatoslav Richter etc. Though it's been a while since I've heard any of it.

"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

JBS

I've always liked Perahia's Bach.
Hewitt and Schiff would be my other go-to pianists in Bach.
I love Gould but he's in a category of his own.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Dry Brett Kavanaugh


JBS

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on March 26, 2023, 03:22:14 PM

I was going to suggest him, but I thought he was effectively unobtainable. But now that I look I see the individual CDs are available for DL, and Amazon US actually has a copy of the set listed as "new".
https://www.amazon.com/J-S-Bach-Complete-Keyboard/dp/B0053HBKZO/

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Todd

Janssen's recordings are apparently available directly from his label: https://www.voidclassics.com/webshop/product-categorie/bach-cycle/
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Mandryka

#1157
Quote from: vers la flamme on March 26, 2023, 01:15:22 PMTaking recs for something good of a pianist playing Bach.

What I like is David Fray, Glenn Gould, András Schiff, Sviatoslav Richter etc. Though it's been a while since I've heard any of it.

Have you heard David Fray's Goldberg Variations?

If you like Gould try the AoF by Martha Czech, she seems to use the same sort of touch as he does sometimes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1Sq1HOYglU

This is my favourite Richter recording of Bach's music

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8160144--bach-sonata-capicio-duetti
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Jo498

Quote from: vers la flamme on March 26, 2023, 01:15:22 PMTaking recs for something good of a pianist playing Bach.

What I like is David Fray, Glenn Gould, András Schiff, Sviatoslav Richter etc. Though it's been a while since I've heard any of it.
They might not be easy to find but try Craig Sheppard for very clear straightforward Partitas and WTC.

Sergej Shepkin recorded a lot of Bach, some of it twice, again, it may not be easy to find. He is more quirky, some might say mannered, but lively and interesting. (I have only one WTC part and Goldbergs.)

The most "solid", very tasteful, careful and in excellent sound might be Evgeny Koroliov with Inventions/sinfonias, Goldbergs, Clavierübung II on Haenssler and AoF, WTC, French suites and some more on Tacet.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Todd

Quote from: vers la flamme on March 26, 2023, 01:15:22 PMTaking recs for something good of a pianist playing Bach.

Pietro de Maria (beautiful playing and sonics), Haskell Small, Michael Levinas, Pi-Hsien Chen.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya