GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: vandermolen on August 28, 2007, 12:04:45 AM

Title: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on August 28, 2007, 12:04:45 AM
Don't recall much discussion about this composer here.  I rather like his music, especially the little known Symphony 1 (his graduation piece from the class of Myaskovsky). The Violin and Piano Concerto are much better known but I find myself listening to the symphonies more than these works. Symphony 2 (especially in Jarvi's spectacular recording on Chandos) is an epic wartime score worthy (I think) of Shostakovich's Leningrad Symphony. I especially like the slow movement's use of the Dies Irea theme.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Saul on August 28, 2007, 05:08:50 AM
He is a good composer. I like his Spartacus music. He was born in Tbilisi Georgia, the same city I was born, and he studied in the same music school my mother studied.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: carlos on August 28, 2007, 07:55:40 AM
IMHO, Gayaneh is one of the best ballet music of the last
century. And I love his 3 concerts. The cello one in particular
is magnificent.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: johnQpublic on August 28, 2007, 09:18:23 AM
I really do not care for the Symphony No. 1, but I'm "Ga-Ga" over the 3rd; however, as I just mentioned a few hours ago on CMG, get Stokowski's recording with the CSO. All other recordings pale in comparison.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dundonnell on August 28, 2007, 06:27:16 PM
Quote from: johnQpublic on August 28, 2007, 09:18:23 AM
I really do not care for the Symphony No. 1, but I'm "Ga-Ga" over the 3rd; however, as I just mentioned a few hours ago on CMG, get Stokowski's recording with the CSO. All other recordings pale in comparison.

So very sorry but I have to say that I think that Khachaturian's 3rd Symphony must be one of the worst symphonies ever written! I gave it another go-admittedly in the ASV Tjeknavorian version rather than the Stokowski-but it really does seem particularly aweful to me! 18 trumpets(in total) and organ ought to appeal to my taste for grandiose music(I love Strauss's Alpine Symphony, for example) but the Khachaturian is the very epitome of empty bombast!

I think that Khachaturian did write some rich, colourful, entertaining music-the second symphony, the violin, piano and cello concertos, the ballets- and the first symphony certainly showed promise. He is certainly more fun to listen to than other Russian 'Ks' like Kabalevsky or Khrennikov(I don't know enough Knipper!) but the choral stuff written to celebrate different aspects of Soviet history is pretty ghastly stuff-in my opinion.

I hate to be critical because I don't like saying anything negative about other people's favourite pieces of music! Sorry!
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: jurajjak on August 29, 2007, 02:03:55 AM
I've mixed feelings about the Third Symphony--on a gut-level, I love it, though even at 20 minutes it can be a bit repetitive, and the bombast is at times comical (perhaps intentionally?).  Nevertheless, I think it IS genuinely exciting, which is worth something in itself.

I would recommend the short cantata "Ode to Joy," which is very clear-cut but boasts excellent, stirring tunes, and the rarely performed Sonata for Violin and Piano, which is a bit more dissonant than most Khachaturian.  His early Trio, op. 15 is also excellent and tuneful.



Andrew 
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mark on August 29, 2007, 02:16:03 AM
I recently heard his Violin Concerto. It largely failed to impress me. A lot going on, but nothing really 'hooked' me. Probably didn't help that its CD pairings on Julia Fischer's Pentatone disc are the (IMO, more interesting) Prokofiev and Glazunov VCs.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on August 29, 2007, 05:36:20 AM
Quote from: johnQpublic on August 28, 2007, 09:18:23 AM
I really do not care for the Symphony No. 1, but I'm "Ga-Ga" over the 3rd; however, as I just mentioned a few hours ago on CMG, get Stokowski's recording with the CSO. All other recordings pale in comparison.

I just bought a newly released Melodiya CD of Kondrashin conducting Symphony 3; it is fun with its blaring USSR SO trumpets. I think that I agree with David Fanning who wrote that Khachaturian's Third Symphony has a "ghastly appeal" like those old Red Square type displays given by Soviet gymnasts!
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: johnQpublic on August 29, 2007, 07:57:17 AM
Quote from: Dundonnell on August 28, 2007, 06:27:16 PMI hate to be critical because I don't like saying anything negative about other people's favourite pieces of music! Sorry!

Don't be sorry. I never claimed it a great piece, but, as has been suggested, it's terrific fun. I'm more worried someone would not hear it in its best light with a recording like the ASV.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on August 29, 2007, 02:21:15 PM
I wish that RCA would issue the original Tjeknavorian recording of Symphony 1 (RCA LP) which is an earlier, and in my view, superior performance to the one on ASV.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: uffeviking on September 18, 2007, 06:30:13 PM
Quote from: carlos on August 28, 2007, 07:55:40 AM
IMHO, Gayaneh is one of the best ballet music of the last
century.


VAI has issued the 1980 performance of Katchaturian's Gayne - that's how they spell it! - performed by the Latvian Opera and Ballet Company at the Bolshoi Theatre. I am not any different then most classical music lovers, have heard the Sabre Dance more than once but never seen it performed. There was my chance!

It's not a star-studded performance, nothing innovative about the choreography, simply your run-of-the-mill classical ballet. The conductor Alexander Viljumanis takes it at a brisk pace, which I thought was too fast, but the dancers managed to keep up with him in that super lively dance without hurting each other swinging and twirling those famous sabres. Enthusiastic open stage applause rewarded the dancers. Costumes are the present day skin-tight and crotch-watch-inviting outfits and the ladies have the usual legs up-to-here. Unfortunately the lighting and camera work was unsatisfactory, but the camera team at least kept the all important feet in view. - I have seen ballet videos where cameras cut  the dancers off at their knees!  ::) -

The bonus selections are almost worth the DVD because there is a large segment of Gayne conducted by Aram Khachaturian in 1964, plus the Adagio of Act II Spartacus with Maya Plisetskaya in 1971. That one was a stunner in more than one way. Plisetskaya is of course super, but I was stunned seeing her partner Maris Liepa. His upper thighs were those of a wrestler, not a ballet dancer, and even Maya's legs were chubby. There is no comparison of the bodies of those two with the lithe artists of the Latvian company who all looked like suffering from bulimia. In almost forty years the preferred shape of dancers has changed that dramatically.

And so has the choreography! In the 1964 Gayne section there are those typical Russian folk dance acrobatic movements almost from beginning to end. We have all seen them on NPR or National Geographic programs. No body suits either, all traditional folk costumes, ladies in full length skirts. So, even if the Latvian ballet is not a prize winner, the VAI edition is an interesting ballet documentary.

Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Sarastro on July 15, 2009, 07:15:48 PM
Gergiev and the Wiener Philharmoniker orchestra play the famous sabre dance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmVkSEhVcuo&feature=related) - quite blazing fast. :o :o ;D
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: bhodges on July 15, 2009, 07:39:08 PM
Thanks, Sarastro.  That was quite fun, even if Gergiev really took it too fast.  The second time is interesting seeing how things sort of fall apart at that pace, even if the Vienna musicians give it their all.

Have you heard Gergiev do The Nutcracker, specifically the "Trepak," with the Kirov?  It is the fastest version of that piece I have ever heard.  (I doubt anyone could actually dance to it.)

--Bruce
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Brian on July 15, 2009, 07:59:20 PM
On another note, I am currently reviewing a new Cello Concerto performance for MusicWeb. Had never heard the concerto before - a total delight, very well-written, and even structurally pretty strong. Great clarinet solos in the first movement! The tragedy is that the new recording - Yablonsky on Naxos - is just the fifth (?) stereo release of the Concerto, the only major prior one being Wallfisch on Chandos, which I'll be listening to soon for comparison purposes. How sad it is that such fantastic music - which, incidentally, would be a smash in the concert hall - goes so unnoticed into obscurity.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: eyeresist on July 16, 2009, 12:12:18 AM
Glad someone else has discovered this fine work. Who is the Naxos soloist?

I have the 3rd Symphony conducted by Kondrashin. I love the beginning of it  - so loud and strange - but then it goes into "typical Khachaturian" lyrical stuff, which doesn't integrate convincingly (at least from the hearing I've given it). It may well turn out to be a work of genius, if only someone can understand it. I do think more could be done with it. I don't suppose the Stokowski recording is easily purchasable?
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on July 16, 2009, 12:30:53 AM
I too like the Cello Concerto and have an old Phillips CD of it. Symphony No 1 and 2 are my favourite works by Khachaturian.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: The new erato on July 16, 2009, 03:04:33 AM
Quote from: Brian on July 15, 2009, 07:59:20 PM
The tragedy is that the new recording - Yablonsky on Naxos - is just the fifth (?) stereo release of the Concerto,
I think that the real tragedy here is that the work is coupled with the violin concerto which has been done to death and are likely to be represented by multiple recordings, several of them very fine, by people interested in this composer. With several versions by Oistrakh as well as a very fine one by Julia Fischer on my shelves, I'm not exactly aching to fill my limited space with a Naxos version of this.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Brian on July 16, 2009, 09:14:44 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 16, 2009, 12:30:53 AM
I too like the Cello Concerto and have an old Phillips CD of it. Symphony No 1 and 2 are my favourite works by Khachaturian.
Who performs on the old Phillips CD? I've been trying to compile a list of the cello concerto's recordings and didn't find that one.

erato - The coupling is not the Violin Concerto, although the two concerti come together on a Chandos album. The new Naxos Cello Concerto is paired with the Concerto-Rhapsody for Cello and Orchestra, which is equally obscure but has been recorded by Rostropovich.

eyeresist - Dmitry Yablonsky is the cellist. :) Maxim Fedotov conducts...
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: The new erato on July 16, 2009, 09:20:49 AM
Quote from: Brian on July 16, 2009, 09:14:44 AM


erato - The coupling is not the Violin Concerto, although the two concerti come together on a Chandos album. The new Naxos Cello Concerto is paired with the Concerto-Rhapsody for Cello and Orchestra, which is equally obscure but has been recorded by Rostropovich.

How could I have mixed that up; I thought I saw that disc a couple of days ago? Sigh - another one for the Wish Lists.

Edit: Here's the reason for the mixup:

(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/8570988.jpg)

Edit 2: And now I see the cello concerto is a download only. As I'm not into downloads, that's why I haven't noted the cello concerto recording and mixed them up. It seems like the wishlist will have to wait.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: techniquest on July 16, 2009, 10:08:53 AM
I'm so pleased that Aram Khachaturian has his own thread here, imvho a most undervalued and neglected composer.
I agree that the earlier Tjeknavorian recording of the 1st symphony is better all-round than the later ASV set, but the ending works better I think in the latter with the frantic bass drum thuds well forward. I also have an ancient vinyl recording on the Russian MK label.
As for the 2nd, the Jarvi recording on Chandos is miles ahead of anyone else (his recording of the Piano Concerto on the same label with Constantine Orbelian as soloist is pretty good too). It is the composers strongest symphony and really deserves to be played more - or even at all!
The 3rd symphony is something of a riot, yes. I find that the BBC Philharmonic recording with Glushchenko (which also contains the first recording of the 'Triumphal Poem') superior to the old Stokowski recording, but both are far better than the very disappointing Tjeknavorian ASV option.The 3rd really ought to be Last Night of the Proms (first half) stuff - noisy, completely OTT fun! After all, you can dance to the last part quite happily!
I have the Regis release of the Cello Concerto and Cello Rhapsody which has Marina Tarasova as the soloist. I hope the new Naxos recording of the Cello Rhapsody and violin concerto is better than their frankly dire recording of the Piano Concerto and Concert Rhapsody.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on July 16, 2009, 12:48:13 PM
Quote from: Brian on July 16, 2009, 09:14:44 AM
Who performs on the old Phillips CD? I've been trying to compile a list of the cello concerto's recordings and didn't find that one.

As below:

Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on July 16, 2009, 01:01:21 PM
Quote from: techniquest on July 16, 2009, 10:08:53 AM
I'm so pleased that Aram Khachaturian has his own thread here, imvho a most undervalued and neglected composer.
I agree that the earlier Tjeknavorian recording of the 1st symphony is better all-round than the later ASV set, but the ending works better I think in the latter with the frantic bass drum thuds well forward. I also have an ancient vinyl recording on the Russian MK label.
As for the 2nd, the Jarvi recording on Chandos is miles ahead of anyone else (his recording of the Piano Concerto on the same label with Constantine Orbelian as soloist is pretty good too). It is the composers strongest symphony and really deserves to be played more - or even at all!
The 3rd symphony is something of a riot, yes. I find that the BBC Philharmonic recording with Glushchenko (which also contains the first recording of the 'Triumphal Poem') superior to the old Stokowski recording, but both are far better than the very disappointing Tjeknavorian ASV option.The 3rd really ought to be Last Night of the Proms (first half) stuff - noisy, completely OTT fun! After all, you can dance to the last part quite happily!
I have the Regis release of the Cello Concerto and Cello Rhapsody which has Marina Tarasova as the soloist. I hope the new Naxos recording of the Cello Rhapsody and violin concerto is better than their frankly dire recording of the Piano Concerto and Concert Rhapsody.


I agree with your comments. I have a Russian Disc CD of Symphony No 1 (Alexander Gauk), which is probably the same performance as on your old Russian MK LP. I also own a double EMI CD with Khachaturian conducting Symphony No 1. The old RCA Tjeknavorian LSO version was the best and important gap in the CD catalogue (along with the late Edward Downes's LSO recording of Bax's Third Symphony - RCA have a lot to answer for  >:()
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Szykneij on July 16, 2009, 02:05:43 PM
I have a 1957 vinyl LP featuring Khachaturian's "Chanson Poeme" performed by David Oistrakh (coupled with the "Kreutzer Sonata".) It's one of the most hauntingly beautiful pieces of music I've ever heard and Oistrakh plays it brilliantly, but the sound quality of the recording is not very good. Does anyone know of any other recorded examples of this piece?

EDIT: Found an image:

(http://www.offtherecord.ie/images/VIOLIN%20%20LOT%20%20%20145%20122.jpg)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: DFO on July 17, 2009, 03:41:38 AM
Le Chant du Monde Edition David Oistrakh No.15, with other 11 short pieces, including Tartini's trill and Paganini's var.on G string. But I'm afraid is OOP. :(
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Szykneij on July 17, 2009, 11:22:27 AM
Quote from: DFO on July 17, 2009, 03:41:38 AM
Le Chant du Monde Edition David Oistrakh No.15, with other 11 short pieces, including Tartini's trill and Paganini's var.on G string. But I'm afraid is OOP. :(

Thanks -- at least I'll know what to keep on the lookout for. I wonder why it seems this piece was never recorded by another performer?
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: DFO on July 17, 2009, 12:38:44 PM
Well...yes. He's not Oistrakh, but..Michael Jelden K.works for violin solo and with piano.Including a full v.s. and Sonate-Monolog for solo violin. A german Bayerischer Rundfunk CD. Try German Ebay. ;)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Szykneij on July 17, 2009, 01:39:37 PM
Quote from: DFO on July 17, 2009, 12:38:44 PM
Well...yes. He's not Oistrakh, but..Michael Jelden K.works for violin solo and with piano.Including a full v.s. and Sonate-Monolog for solo violin. A german Bayerischer Rundfunk CD. Try German Ebay. ;)

Found it!

(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/06/685006.jpg)

CD Universe -- many thanks!
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Brian on July 19, 2009, 03:22:02 PM
Quote from: erato on July 16, 2009, 09:20:49 AM
Edit 2: And now I see the cello concerto is a download only. As I'm not into downloads, that's why I haven't noted the cello concerto recording and mixed them up. It seems like the wishlist will have to wait.
I have word from Naxos that the Cello Concerto and Concerto-Rhapsody CD will be released on a physical CD in February.

For now it is a download only:

(http://images.emusic.com/music/images/album/279/115/091/11509178/600x600.jpg)

Thanks to vandermolen for digging up that Philips recording!
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: jowcol on July 20, 2009, 12:34:44 PM
He definitely had a way with a melody.   I can't say I go too deep with him, but the Second Symphony is fantastic, and Spartacus and Gayne(sp?) have some heart-stopping moments.  Some of the slow, melancholy parts, (the Lullaby, the Adagio, and the Awakening from the latter) are unbelievably haunting.  I never quite got a hold of the piano concerto or cello concerto, but I probably haven't given them enough listens.


Back in the days of turntables, I must admit that I used to play the Sabre Dance (recorded at 33 rpm) at 45 rpm just for the overload.

Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Tapkaara on July 21, 2009, 09:52:02 AM
Khachaturian is certainly one of my favorite composers.

I am tickled that the 3rd has been brought up here. I love this symphony. In terms of its form (in the traditional 'symphonic' sense) it is strangely lacking. But for the sheer fun factor, it can't be beat.

THE recording to hear of the work is on Chandos. In the Tjeknavorian and Kondrashin recordings, the organ is too weak. In this recording, the organ is quite loud, as it should be. So are the 15 trumpets. And the percussion. It's just so damn loud.

Yes, it is repetitive...and quite possibly tacky...but the visceral impact of the music is too much not to be swept away by it.

I agree with one of the earlier comments that Gayne is one of the best ballets of the 20th century...often sounds like it could have been written in the 19th century, though...

His incidental music from THE VALENCIAN WINDOW is another favorite of mine. Tuneful as hell.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: techniquest on July 22, 2009, 11:53:14 AM
Ah yes, 'The Valencian Widow'; very tuneful and enjoyable music. In a similar vein we should also mention 'Masquerade' which was also a very tuneful piece of incidental music.
Glad I'm not the only one who really likes the 3rd Symphony- certainly the Glushchenko recording on Chandos has the most powerful organ, in fact as you suggest, the performance and recording is just about as OTT as the music itself.
Thinking about his ballet music, I'd put Spartacus ahead of Gayaneh but both are superb scores and deserve to be up there with the other great romantic ballets.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Tapkaara on July 22, 2009, 11:57:44 AM
Quote from: techniquest on July 22, 2009, 11:53:14 AM
Ah yes, 'The Valencian Widow'; very tuneful and enjoyable music. In a similar vein we should also mention 'Masquerade' which was also a very tuneful piece of incidental music.
Glad I'm not the only one who really likes the 3rd Symphony- certainly the Glushchenko recording on Chandos has the most powerful organ, in fact as you suggest, the performance and recording is just about as OTT as the music itself.
Thinking about his ballet music, I'd put Spartacus ahead of Gayaneh but both are superb scores and deserve to be up there with the other great romantic ballets.

I would actually put Gayne in before Spartacus. While I love both, Gayne has better tunes I think. Plus I can't resist the 'ethnic exoticism' of it. But in reality, both are equally powerful and worthwhile, it's just that the ethnic textures of Gayne are of (slightly) greater fascination to me.

The Masquerade Suite is also very tuneful, as well.

Amazing how conservative Khachaturian was, even compared to his compatriots and colleagues Shostakovich and Prokofiev. The modernists must have thought Khachaturian was ridiculous.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: eyeresist on July 22, 2009, 09:30:56 PM
Quote from: Tapkaara on July 22, 2009, 11:57:44 AMThe Masquerade Suite is also very tuneful, as well.

Amazing how conservative Khachaturian was, even compared to his compatriots and colleagues Shostakovich and Prokofiev. The modernists must have thought Khachaturian was ridiculous.
Masquerade is wonderful "light" music, should be much better known.
Regarding Khachaturian's conservatism, I believe he wrote his wild third symphony shortly before the Zhdanov decree. If not for that cataclysm, we might have had more experimental music. (From the Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aram_Khachaturian), it looks like Kha wrote mostly film and stage music after 1948.)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Tapkaara on July 22, 2009, 09:43:29 PM
Quote from: eyeresist on July 22, 2009, 09:30:56 PM
Masquerade is wonderful "light" music, should be much better known.
Regarding Khachaturian's conservatism, I believe he wrote his wild third symphony shortly before the Zhdanov decree. If not for that cataclysm, we might have had more experimental music. (From the Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aram_Khachaturian), it looks like Kha wrote mostly film and stage music after 1948.)


As experimental as the 3rd symphony may be, it is still a conservative, tonal work. At least it is conservative if you compare it to some of the other things going on in music at the time. So, I'd still say it's a pretty conservative piece. Weird and wacky, but conservative.

Of course I cannot be 100% right, but I feel that Khachaturian was never one to get too "out there" anyway. His concerto-rhapsodies of the 1960s, for example, were written after most if not all of the fear of formalism had more or less left the regime, yet these works sound like they could have been written towards the end of the 19th century, but with a few inventive "modern" harmonies and dissonances.

Anyway, Khachaturian is a fabulous composer, highly accessible and he had a very distinctive sound.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Brian on July 29, 2009, 11:19:11 AM
Quote from: techniquest on July 22, 2009, 11:53:14 AM
Ah yes, 'The Valencian Widow'; very tuneful and enjoyable music.
I love the 'Valencian Widow'; am listening to the suite now. Have to say that my favorite section is always the second part - the rather oddly titled "Serenade", which is a good bit more ominous than the name lets on.  :D
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Tapkaara on July 29, 2009, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: Brian on July 29, 2009, 11:19:11 AM
I love the 'Valencian Widow'; am listening to the suite now. Have to say that my favorite section is always the second part - the rather oddly titled "Serenade", which is a good bit more ominous than the name lets on.  :D

I love the raucous and rousing first movement of the suite in particular. But the suite as a whole is just too irresistable. Should be as well known as Rimsky-Korsakov's Capriccio espagnol, I think.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: eyeresist on June 24, 2012, 08:01:08 PM
After Arimov, I am looking for more "Eastern" music. I listened to the Khachaturian symphonies over the weekend. It really is a shame there are so few recordings. Tjeknavorian's ASV recordings aren't good enough; his Bell is especially disappointing. My alternative for this is Khach's Russian recording (live, date given as 1977) - better played, less rushed, but ungratifying sound. I also have Gauk in 1 (1959) and Kondrashin in 3 (both in the Venezia box). Again, poor sound, and these were practically first performances. These works need modern sound, expert playing, and a broad-paced deeply-felt approach - this stuff has to be taken seriously or it doesn't really work.

I have in my sights Khachaturian's Vienna recording of the 2nd symphony, and Glushchenko's recording of the 3rd. Why are there so few to choose from???
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 24, 2012, 08:20:02 PM
Quote from: eyeresist on June 24, 2012, 08:01:08 PM
After Arimov, I am looking for more "Eastern" music. I listened to the Khachaturian symphonies over the weekend. It really is a shame there are so few recordings. Tjeknavorian's ASV recordings aren't good enough; his Bell is especially disappointing. My alternative for this is Khach's Russian recording (live, date given as 1977) - better played, less rushed, but ungratifying sound. I also have Gauk in 1 (1947) and Kondrashin in 3 (both in the Venezia box). Again, poor sound, and these were practically first performances. These works need modern sound, expert playing, and a broad-paced deeply-felt approach - this stuff has to be taken seriously or it doesn't really work.

I have in my sights Khachaturian's Vienna recording of the 2nd symphony, and Glushchenko's recording of the 3rd. Why are there so few to choose from???

You might want to try this:

[asin]B000000AML[/asin]

Great performances and audio quality.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: mc ukrneal on June 24, 2012, 10:25:43 PM
Quote from: eyeresist on June 24, 2012, 08:01:08 PM

I have in my sights Khachaturian's Vienna recording of the 2nd symphony, and Glushchenko's recording of the 3rd. Why are there so few to choose from???
Re: #3, this is loud and raucus and so does benefit from good sound. Thus, you will probably like the Chandos. I have it and think it ok, though I have nothing with which to compare it. It seems slow at 25 minutes (I see others go faster), but the sound is quite fantastic. I suspect Stokowski might be interpretively better here, but good luck finding that for a reasonable price. Actually, the sound (as I listen to it again) is super fantastic - lots of fanfares. And as I listen to it, I am quite bowled over. This will get your blood moving in the morning!!
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: eyeresist on June 24, 2012, 11:33:31 PM
Quote from: mc ukrneal on June 24, 2012, 10:25:43 PMRe: #3, this is loud and raucus and so does benefit from good sound. Thus, you will probably like the Chandos. I have it and think it ok, though I have nothing with which to compare it. It seems slow at 25 minutes (I see others go faster), but the sound is quite fantastic. I suspect Stokowski might be interpretively better here,

Judging from the brief Amazon sample, Glushchenko is rather slack. Kondrashin is goes to about 24 minutes, but never lets up. Tjeknavorian is about 20 minutes, but apparently this is due to cuts. I am worried that Stokowski will rush it.


EDIT:
I think I will have to add this to my wishlist (MP3 only, sadly):
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51OZfp9vv%2BL._SL500_AA280_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007Q5G0RO/ref=sr_1_album_9_rd?ie=UTF8&child=B007Q5G27W&qid=1340610949&sr=1-9)
Khachaturian: Symphony 2 / Rafail Mangasarian, Moscow RTV Symphony Orchestra (Best Buy Classical)

Judging by the samples, the audio is not the most natural, but the intensity is extreme.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: eyeresist on July 01, 2012, 07:12:48 PM
Some thoughts after listening to Khachaturian over the weekend:

I disparaged the ballets in another thread, which was rather a hangover from listening to highlights conducted by Simonov in rather glary sound. I listened to Spartacus suites 1-3 and modified my opinion. I think one's judgement is formed partly by what one expects from ballet music. I mean, ballet as an art-form is inherently ridiculous, for which the composer can compensate in two ways: 1) distract the audience with a series of blockbusting tunes (Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev) or (2) get the audience to buy into the logic of the stage by inducing a dream-like trance (Stravinsky, Bartok). If we take Khachaturian as using the second approach, the monotonous, driving aspect of the music makes much more sense. In fact, I would link this aspect of Spartacus with the 3rd symphony, whose overall effect I would describe as hallucinatory.

If we look for it, we can also see this aspect in the 2nd symphony - the obsessive repetitions of the 1st movement, which strongly anticipate Herrmann's Hitchcock film scores; and also the nightmarish travesty of the Dies Irae in the third movement (I find enjoyment of this movement greatly increased on repeated hearing, due to the sense of anticipation for the entrance of the hymn tune).
I've noticed, BTW, a rising chord sequence at the end of the symphony which seems to be a quote from the choral ending of Liszt's Dante symphony. If I am correct, Khachaturian was actually quite daring to suggest the notion of religious transcendance, given the atheistic strictures of the USSR.

So.... I want to give Spartacus another re-hearing, in a better recording than the old Naxos CD. This music really needs great playing and great sound (not too glary, not too reverberant), and a conductor willing and capable of strongly characterising the numbers as required. I will look at the recordings of Jurowski and Tjeknavorian, but am also anticipating Melodiya's rerelease of the complete score recording from the 70s.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: eyeresist on July 01, 2012, 10:08:36 PM

Virtual Museum of Aram Khachaturian (http://www.khachaturian.am/eng/index.htm)

QuoteAfter the war, Yerevan hospitals were full of casualties. Having come to Yerevan, Khachaturian wished to give a concert in one of the hospitals. The music was punctuated by his interesting stories of musicians' life during the war years. Among Khachaturian's recollections there was the following funny story. Once during the evacuation, at a railway station, Khachaturian, Oistrakh and Shostakovich were terribly hungry. To get out of the critical situation helped Oistrakh who jokingly suggested giving a performance right there. Nevertheless, Khachaturian and Shostakovich found the idea attractive and agreed with pleasure. As a reward for the improvised performance, the great musicians got a dinner.

The list of works (http://www.khachaturian.am/eng/works/music.htm) seems extensive, but doesn't mention the "Sonata-monologue" for solo violin included on the disc of music recorded by Jelden (possibly it's transcribed from the solo sonata for cello?).

Obscure works of possible interest:

Film scores: Othello (1956), Saltanat (1955)
Theatre music: Macbeth (two versions? 1933, 1955), Devastated home (1935), Kremlin chimes (1942), Southern bale (1947), Tale about the truth (1947), Spring current (1953), Lermontov (1954), King Lear (1958)
Chamber music: String quartet (1931), Clarinet trio (1932), Violin sonata (1932), Cello sonata (solo) (1974)
Piano works: Seven recitatives and fugues (1928, 1966), Album for children (10 pieces) (1947), Sonatina (1959), Sonata (1961), Album for children 2 (1965)
Ballet: Happiness (1939)

I'm surprised he never wrote an opera.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: eyeresist on July 18, 2012, 09:10:44 PM
Currently listening to the Vienna Philharmonic recording of the 2nd symphony.
Disappointingly, the sound breaks up badly several times. I expected better from Decca. Also, there are places where the musicians sound unfamiliar with the music, whereas the Russian performers are intense throughout. ATM I'd have to say Khachaturian's Soviet recording is the better one.
But I still have to hear Jarvi and Mangasarian.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on July 19, 2012, 03:01:46 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on July 18, 2012, 09:10:44 PM
Currently listening to the Vienna Philharmonic recording of the 2nd symphony.
Disappointingly, the sound breaks up badly several times. I expected better from Decca. Also, there are places where the musicians sound unfamiliar with the music, whereas the Russian performers are intense throughout. ATM I'd have to say Khachaturian's Soviet recording is the better one.
But I still have to hear Jarvi and Mangasarian.

I think that the Jarvi is in a class of its own - from the wonderfully intimidating opening onwards.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: cilgwyn on July 19, 2012, 03:22:29 AM
I used to play his first symphony allot when I was a youngster...a long time ago! ;D The recording I had was an RCA Lp,with Armenian's,I think,dancing,or leaping about,on the front! I believe it was conducted by the man himself;but as far as I know it is currently unavailable on cd. The first doesn't get mentioned as often as the other two,but I seem to remember that,if you like the score,the RCA performance was a VERY exciting reading;infinitely better than the ASV,which got good reviews in Gramophone,I believe (as did Tjeknavorian's other,rather overrated,I think, ASV recordings! :o) I remember braining my poor parents with it ( the volume on,full throttle!! :o)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on July 19, 2012, 04:02:17 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on July 19, 2012, 03:22:29 AM
I used to play his first symphony allot when I was a youngster...a long time ago! ;D The recording I had was an RCA Lp,with Armenian's,I think,dancing,or leaping about,on the front! I believe it was conducted by the man himself;but as far as I know it is currently unavailable on cd. The first doesn't get mentioned as often as the other two,but I seem to remember that,if you like the score,the RCA performance was a VERY exciting reading;infinitely better than the ASV,which got good reviews in Gramophone,I believe (as did Tjeknavorian's other,rather overrated,I think, ASV recordings! :o) I remember braining my poor parents with it ( the volume on,full throttle!! :o)

The RCA LP you refer to was also conducted by Tjeknavorian (with the LSO). As you rightly say it was far superior to the later ASV remake - in fact I think that it was the best ever recording of the work. Infuriatingly, like the RCA recordings of Bax's Third Symphony (Downes) and Miaskovsky's 21st Symphony (Morton Gould) it has never been released on CD - shame on RCA. I think that all three are the best recordings of the relevant works. Khachaturian's First Symphony is my favourite (although I like all three). All is not lost, however, as Melodiya have recently issued very good performances of the work (and Symphony No 2 on a separate CD) conducted by the composer with the USSR SSO.
[asin]B00579EKMS[/asin]
[asin]B003TY14MW[/asin]
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: cilgwyn on July 19, 2012, 05:24:13 AM
It's been along time since I was a teenager,Vandermolen! ;D Yes,it was Tjeknavorian,I believe. I can sort of see the name there,on the Lp,in my mind! It had a sweep,grandeur & fervour to it,which made it far more convincing,than than ASV. In fact it is quite an impressive symphony in that recording. All the more pity that it appears to be unavailable,although,maybe as a download? If more people could hear that performance,it would have a few more admirers. Hopefully,at some point it will be reissued. I remember waiting years for Rca to release Tjeknavorian's Gayane,though;which was also excitingly played;although,unfortunately,it was not actually complete & there were various issues,which I know have garnered some criticism on various forums. A pity,because there was some thrilling musicianship there & it certainly spent allot of time thundering out of my,incidentally,Van der Molen Record player loudspeakers! As a fellow Armenian,you would have thought Tjeknavorian would have taken more care over these issues. But then again,maybe he was under pressure from recording executives? I know conductors & performers can't always do things the way they want!
  The LSO of course is a proper orchestra & I seem to remember that the sound quality of the RCA Second was on the spectacular side;although,possibly a little reverberant,in the 'Chandos' sense of the term. I certainly had no problem with it;although I'm more critical now.
  Miaskovsky conducted by Gould sounds very intriguing. I have some of his Copland recordings & may put them on later. Gould also composed of course. I'm not a big admirer of his work. He often seems like Copland without the tunes;but I remember I had a Varese Sarabande Lp of him conducting his own music with the Lso;again in my teens/early 20's. It was one of those early digital Lps with those rather fun warnings about possible damage to speakers! It also had a very striking black sleeve with a yellow aztec design on the front. Gatefold in design,it certainly grabbed your eye. The first item on side 1 was Goulds Latin American Symphonette. Like the Khatchaturian RCA Second,it was one of those recordings that have some kind of special magic. Thrilling,exciting playing,and a truly spectacular recording that highlighted every detail of Goulds exotic instrumentation. To this day,I have NEVER heard a recording of a composition of Gould that sounded that convincing,or good. Again there was a sweep & fervour to it which seem to bring it all together. In his hands it sounded like a classic. Sadly,as far as I can make out,it has never been released on cd. Yet,Gould is a composer I usually class as intriguing,but ultimately disappointing! It's as if there's some big tune always waiting there in the wings,but it never shows up. Gould's No 1 failing,I think. Bernstein,Gershwin & Arnold could write great tunes,Gould couldn't! :( Having said that,his third symphony on the Albany label is not bad,at all,especially that jazz combo style riff. So maybe there is some good Gould out there,somewhere?
I have to admit,unlike yourself,Vandermolen. I'm not much of an expert on Miaskovsky,but I used to love the old Unicorn Kanchana recording,which I finally procured on cd. Alas,the cd had a fault & by the time I found out,it was too late to get a refund. Fortunately,it played on my pc & I now have a cdr inside the original cd jewel case,minus the 'Hamlet',which is interesting,I suppose,but I just wanted a cd of the original release (inc Kabalevsky 2).
  Going back to Khatchaturian (hurriedly),it's good to see that Melodiya are reissuing their Khatchaturian recordings. Hopefully,we'll get some of their more esoteric fare before long. I recently procured a s/h cd of Khrennikov's Piano Concerto's,which presumably originated from Melodiya? I'm ashamed to say that I absolutely love them. In fact,they were on repeat for a couple of days. The old villain was no mean pianist,I must say! :o ;D And to anyone who sees red ;D at the mention of Tikhon Khrennikov;I honestly wish I could hate his music,or regard it as utterly derivative & crap,but I can't lie to myself. I like it! :o :(
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on July 19, 2012, 01:08:35 PM
Quote from: cilgwyn on July 19, 2012, 05:24:13 AM
It's been along time since I was a teenager,Vandermolen! ;D Yes,it was Tjeknavorian,I believe. I can sort of see the name there,on the Lp,in my mind! It had a sweep,grandeur & fervour to it,which made it far more convincing,than than ASV. In fact it is quite an impressive symphony in that recording. All the more pity that it appears to be unavailable,although,maybe as a download? If more people could hear that performance,it would have a few more admirers. Hopefully,at some point it will be reissued. I remember waiting years for Rca to release Tjeknavorian's Gayane,though;which was also excitingly played;although,unfortunately,it was not actually complete & there were various issues,which I know have garnered some criticism on various forums. A pity,because there was some thrilling musicianship there & it certainly spent allot of time thundering out of my,incidentally,Van der Molen Record player loudspeakers! As a fellow Armenian,you would have thought Tjeknavorian would have taken more care over these issues. But then again,maybe he was under pressure from recording executives? I know conductors & performers can't always do things the way they want!
  The LSO of course is a proper orchestra & I seem to remember that the sound quality of the RCA Second was on the spectacular side;although,possibly a little reverberant,in the 'Chandos' sense of the term. I certainly had no problem with it;although I'm more critical now.
  Miaskovsky conducted by Gould sounds very intriguing. I have some of his Copland recordings & may put them on later. Gould also composed of course. I'm not a big admirer of his work. He often seems like Copland without the tunes;but I remember I had a Varese Sarabande Lp of him conducting his own music with the Lso;again in my teens/early 20's. It was one of those early digital Lps with those rather fun warnings about possible damage to speakers! It also had a very striking black sleeve with a yellow aztec design on the front. Gatefold in design,it certainly grabbed your eye. The first item on side 1 was Goulds Latin American Symphonette. Like the Khatchaturian RCA Second,it was one of those recordings that have some kind of special magic. Thrilling,exciting playing,and a truly spectacular recording that highlighted every detail of Goulds exotic instrumentation. To this day,I have NEVER heard a recording of a composition of Gould that sounded that convincing,or good. Again there was a sweep & fervour to it which seem to bring it all together. In his hands it sounded like a classic. Sadly,as far as I can make out,it has never been released on cd. Yet,Gould is a composer I usually class as intriguing,but ultimately disappointing! It's as if there's some big tune always waiting there in the wings,but it never shows up. Gould's No 1 failing,I think. Bernstein,Gershwin & Arnold could write great tunes,Gould couldn't! :( Having said that,his third symphony on the Albany label is not bad,at all,especially that jazz combo style riff. So maybe there is some good Gould out there,somewhere?
I have to admit,unlike yourself,Vandermolen. I'm not much of an expert on Miaskovsky,but I used to love the old Unicorn Kanchana recording,which I finally procured on cd. Alas,the cd had a fault & by the time I found out,it was too late to get a refund. Fortunately,it played on my pc & I now have a cdr inside the original cd jewel case,minus the 'Hamlet',which is interesting,I suppose,but I just wanted a cd of the original release (inc Kabalevsky 2).
  Going back to Khatchaturian (hurriedly),it's good to see that Melodiya are reissuing their Khatchaturian recordings. Hopefully,we'll get some of their more esoteric fare before long. I recently procured a s/h cd of Khrennikov's Piano Concerto's,which presumably originated from Melodiya? I'm ashamed to say that I absolutely love them. In fact,they were on repeat for a couple of days. The old villain was no mean pianist,I must say! :o ;D And to anyone who sees red ;D at the mention of Tikhon Khrennikov;I honestly wish I could hate his music,or regard it as utterly derivative & crap,but I can't lie to myself. I like it! :o :(

Very interesting post Cilgwyn,

I think that the link below should take you to an image of that famous old RCA LP:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RL-25203-TJEKNAVORIAN-KHACHATURIAN-SYMPHONY-1-/230815897886

You are quite right about the epic sweep of that performance (unlike any other).  The 'Third Ear Classical Music Guide' takes the same view. I discovered the LP at a music library in Harrow, Noth London when I was teaching there (not at Harrow School I point out) in my 20s.

As for Miaskovsky I think that Measham's performance is as good as any - also my introduction to the work on LP (I am playing it now - but sadly not through 'Van der Molen' speakers   ;D) As for Morton Gould I also agree with you and even his 'Jekyll and Hyde Variations' were a bit of a let down.  However, there is one work by Morton Gould which I love and this is the 'West Point' Symphony for band. There is a point in it where the orchestra have to 'march' along with the music, which is great fun, highly memorable and an absolute hoot - although I'm not sure if this was Morton Gould's intention! The version to have is on Mercury if you can find it - a wonderful old CD coupled with music by Alan Hovhannes.
I think that I'm more of an obsessive Miaskovsky CD nutter rather than an 'expert' but I'm flattered that you think so (although along with two Dutchmen and a Scotsman I am definitely a 'Braga Santos expert'  8)

As for Khrennikov I really like the Symphony No 2, which is memorable, catchy and genuinely moving at the end of the slow movement.  I actually saw him in the flesh when I attended a concert in Moscow on New Year's Day 1986 (a very tepid ballet by him was being staged).
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: eyeresist on July 19, 2012, 05:44:42 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 19, 2012, 04:02:17 AMThe RCA LP you refer to was also conducted by Tjeknavorian (with the LSO). As you rightly say it was far superior to the later ASV remake - in fact I think that it was the best ever recording of the work. Infuriatingly, like the RCA recordings of Bax's Third Symphony (Downes) and Miaskovsky's 21st Symphony (Morton Gould) it has never been released on CD - shame on RCA. I think that all three are the best recordings of the relevant works. Khachaturian's First Symphony is my favourite (although I like all three). All is not lost, however, as Melodiya have recently issued very good performances of the work (and Symphony No 2 on a separate CD) conducted by the composer with the USSR SSO.

Everyone raves about the Tjek RCA recording - I can't help thinking I might eventually be terribly let down  ;)

I recently took delivery of the Melodiya reissue of the composer conducting the 1st. It has not sold me on the work (though I think there is definitely a 'there' there). I'll give it a few more listens, though.  It seems Melodiya has been reinvigorated in the last year or so - they should do a poll to see what we actually want them to release! I definitely recommend Khach's Soviet recording of the 2nd, and Kondrashin's 3rd.

I also picked up the Naxos disc of the cello concertos, and I think this will be the go-to disc for these works for some time to come. The sound is great and the performances very enthusiastic.  (Interesting that the cello is played by Yablonsky, who we know best as a conductor, while he is very ably conducted by Fedotov, better known as a violinist. Then there's the disc of Khach's piano concertos with Yablonsky conducting - the soloist is his mother! It's a family affair....)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on July 19, 2012, 10:04:09 PM
Quote from: eyeresist on July 19, 2012, 05:44:42 PM
Everyone raves about the Tjek RCA recording - I can't help thinking I might eventually be terribly let down  ;)

I recently took delivery of the Melodiya reissue of the composer conducting the 1st. It has not sold me on the work (though I think there is definitely a 'there' there). I'll give it a few more listens, though.  It seems Melodiya has been reinvigorated in the last year or so - they should do a poll to see what we actually want them to release! I definitely recommend Khach's Soviet recording of the 2nd, and Kondrashin's 3rd.

I also picked up the Naxos disc of the cello concertos, and I think this will be the go-to disc for these works for some time to come. The sound is great and the performances very enthusiastic.  (Interesting that the cello is played by Yablonsky, who we know best as a conductor, while he is very ably conducted by Fedotov, better known as a violinist. Then there's the disc of Khach's piano concertos with Yablonsky conducting - the soloist is his mother! It's a family affair....)

I don't think that you'd be disappointed by the RCA recording. Cigwyn is right - it has an epic sweep unlike the others. I think that Melodiya have released the Khachaturian soviet recording of Symphony No 2 (see image in my posting above). I wish Melodiya would be a bit more adventurous now. I'd like to see their Miaskovsky recordings reissued for starters.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: eyeresist on July 20, 2012, 12:29:38 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 19, 2012, 10:04:09 PMI think that Melodiya have released the Khachaturian soviet recording of Symphony No 2 (see image in my posting above).

Yes, I have that issue of symphony 1. It's quite a nice package, although it's a digipak, which I don't care for. On the back is over-writing in gloss black on matt black, what I assume is "Khachaturian" in Armenian script. The disc itself is designed like an old LP label, with simulated black grooves - you can feel the texture!
Booklet notes in English and Russian. Remastering credited to M. Pilipov, but no date given. There might be more info in the fine print on the back, but I can't read Cyrillic.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: eyeresist on July 22, 2012, 07:04:58 PM
Apart from those mentioned above, I believe there are two other recordings of Symphony No. 2:


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Xr8a4yUFL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Historical-Russian-Archives-Yuri-Temirkanov/dp/B00182TP3M/ref=sr_1_1_bnp_0_main?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1343012398&sr=1-1&keywords=temirkanov)
Hidden away in Brilliant's Yuri Temirkanov Edition.


(http://img.hmv.co.jp/image/jacket/190/01/3/0/098.jpg) (http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/130098)
Recorded in Armenia in 2000 as part of Japan Music Week
National Philharmonic Orchestra of Armenia / Inoueki Nobuyoshi (Altus label)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on July 23, 2012, 03:23:55 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on July 22, 2012, 07:04:58 PM
Apart from those mentioned above, I believe there are two other recordings of Symphony No. 2:


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Xr8a4yUFL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Historical-Russian-Archives-Yuri-Temirkanov/dp/B00182TP3M/ref=sr_1_1_bnp_0_main?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1343012398&sr=1-1&keywords=temirkanov)
Hidden away in Brilliant's Yuri Temirkanov Edition.


(http://img.hmv.co.jp/image/jacket/190/01/3/0/098.jpg) (http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/130098)
Recorded in Armenia in 2000 as part of Japan Music Week
National Philharmonic Orchestra of Armenia / Inoueki Nobuyoshi (Altus label)

How interesting! Have you heard either? I recently bought a re-issue of the Stokowski version.
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Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: eyeresist on July 23, 2012, 05:49:36 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 23, 2012, 03:23:55 AMHow interesting! Have you heard either? I recently bought a re-issue of the Stokowski version.

No, they both cost a bit more than I am prepared to spend at the moment. That Stokowski set is enticing, and is on my wishlist. I guess one advantage of Urania being a pirate label is they have access to the best restoration technology ;)
Have you listened to it? Any thoughts, Khach or Shosty?
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on July 24, 2012, 11:27:18 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on July 23, 2012, 05:49:36 PM
No, they both cost a bit more than I am prepared to spend at the moment. That Stokowski set is enticing, and is on my wishlist. I guess one advantage of Urania being a pirate label is they have access to the best restoration technology ;)
Have you listened to it? Any thoughts, Khach or Shosty?

Didn't realise that Urania was a pirate label - but makes sense in view of the flimsy presentation.  Will listen and report back.

The Temirkanov performance of Symphony 2 (Khachaturian) is well reviewed here:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2008/june08/Temirkanov_8818.htm
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: eyeresist on July 25, 2012, 05:32:12 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 24, 2012, 11:27:18 AMDidn't realise that Urania was a pirate label - but makes sense in view of the flimsy presentation.

Wel, I noticed that they often sell old material which, by coincidence, used to be on M&A but is now out of print. Furtwangler's Bruckner, for instance. Those Urania transfers sounded suspiciously awesome ;)

Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on August 01, 2012, 11:45:57 PM
The Temirkanov performance of Symphony No 2 'The Bell' (Brilliant boxed set) is the best I know - not the best recorded (the sound is a little constricted) but undoubtedly the most intense performance, which had me on the edge of my seat (1970 live performance). Well worth looking out for.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: eyeresist on August 02, 2012, 01:18:30 AM
I've done a little online research on the Temirkanov - you forgot to mention it is in mono!

I've been listening to the Martin/Kuchar recording of the Violin Concerto and Concerto-Rhapsody. First class performances, and thankfully it was recorded in studio rather than the concert hall whose reverb sabotaged other recordings from this source. Looking at online reviews, a lot of people point out the performance of the concert-rhapsody as an exceptionally strong take on a weak work. (I think the weakness of the rhapsodies is at least in part due to lack of a clarifying structure.)
These works are certainly more engaging than the corresponding ones for cello. I feel the most concerto-ish parts are the weakest (all that empty note-spinning which seems to impress the critics), and the bits that sound like an exotic tone poem are the best (i.e. the bits that sound most like Khachaturian).

Transcription of the May-June 2004 ARG review:
QuoteThis is one of the most satisfying recordings of the Khachaturian Violin Concerto that I have heard, and it may even be the best.

In March/April 2001 I praised Aaron Rosand's recording with Kees Bakels and the Malaysian Philharmonic. I was especially impressed with Bakels's commitment and imagination. But Rosand sounds anemic, and I suspect that is the fault of the recording engineer. Before that, my favorite recording had been David Oistrakh's with the composer conducting the USSR Radio Symphony from 1965. Khachaturian doesn't do quite as good a job teasing out interesting details in the score as Bakels does - or at least the recording engineers didn't pick them out - but Oistrakh is no second-string player, and his tone is full and present. This new release combines the virtues of the other two recordings - a very expressive soloist, a dynamic conductor, and clear full-bodied sound.

Mihaela Martin is a remarkably fine soloist - much better than Rosand and nearly the equal of Oistrakh - and her performance is full of nuance and tonal shadings. Theodore Kuchar keeps a firm grip on the proceedings, and the Ukraine orchestra is fine. The sound here is the best I've heard, and it doesn't favor the soloist over the orchestra, or vice versa like Rosand's recording, but places her squarely in the midst of the orchestra. And to think that you get all this at budget price!

The weak part of this release is the coupling, the Concerto-Rhapsody of 1961. The Violin Concerto was written 21 years earlier, and it would appear that Khachaturian's melodic gifts had diminished in the meantime. Pretty as it is, it has not one memorable tune, while the Violin Concerto has nothing but memorable tunes.

MAGIL

For some reason, the more recent Naxos recording conducted by Serebrier has gone largely unnoticed.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: eyeresist on August 22, 2012, 08:09:58 PM
I took delivery of Chandos's "Introduction to Aram Khachaturian" CD (including the 3rd symphony) yesterday, and just wanted to mention a couple of things from the liner notes.

First, the generic introduction to the "Introduction to" series (written by Classic FM presenter John Brunning) is hilarious in this instance: "It will give you a good flavour of the composer's style, but you won't find any nasty surprises - all the music is instantly accessible and appealing." As much as I like the 3rd, I'm pretty sure most Classic FM listeners would describe it as a "nasty surprise".

Also, I was not previously aware that Khachaturian's 3rd received its Moscow premiere (on 25 December 1947) along with another debut - Prokofiev's 6th.

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Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: cilgwyn on August 23, 2012, 03:51:01 AM
I used to love Khatchaturian's music,as a youngster,but for some reason ::) his 3rd symphony never really appealed to me. For a master of slick tunes,the 3rds big 'tune' (if that's the right word for it) is suprisingly & perhaps disappointingly,for me,astringent! I was always relieved when it got to the wacky 'Dr Phibes at the organ' bit!
Incidentally,I had the Stokowski version on RCA Gold Seal,coupled with RK's Russian Easter Festival Overture (I'm looking at an ebay photo of the Lp,now!) & Anna Moffo singing Rachmaninov's 'Vocalise,which I used to play over & over again. It turned me into a bit of a Moffo fan,actually.....but enough of that,here! :o ;D
The sailing boat photo on the front was very 'Onedin Line' (My parents hated the show & always switched it off!)
The 3rd would have been right up Stokowski's street,I presume, and is,I suppose,a quite famous recording. But I do wonder what Khatchaturian admirers think of it? Is the score cut? Is the organ dubbed onto the recording? It's so many years since I heard the recording. It used to be in every library & was the recording that most people would hear. At least,I think so? ;D

'Stanley Black conducts Khatchaturian',was another one! Often with a garish sleeve! I used to think,"Who is this Stanley Black?" He sounded like one of those villains in Gerry Anderson shows,or a character in a Cluedo game!
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: eyeresist on August 23, 2012, 05:29:08 PM
Quote from: cilgwyn on August 23, 2012, 03:51:01 AMThe 3rd would have been right up Stokowski's street,I presume, and is,I suppose,a quite famous recording. But I do wonder what Khatchaturian admirers think of it? Is the score cut? Is the organ dubbed onto the recording? It's so many years since I heard the recording. It used to be in every library & was the recording that most people would hear. At least,I think so? ;D

'Stanley Black conducts Khatchaturian',was another one! Often with a garish sleeve! I used to think,"Who is this Stanley Black?" He sounded like one of those villains in Gerry Anderson shows,or a character in a Cluedo game!
I'm afraid I haven't heard the Stokowski recording - I imagine it might be cut. I've read that the Tjeknavorian recording is cut. I don't know what Khatchaturian admirers think of it (are there such things? most people only acknowledge the ballet excerpts) - I admit that its appeal to me depends to some extent on something perverse in my personality ;)

I have Stanley Black conducting the Masquerade suite on Decca's "Essential Khachaturian" set. Pretty good, but I think my affection still lies with the composer-conducted performance, less hard-hitting but more romantic.

Incidentally, I'm not sure what to make of this Amazon entry:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513nWOMIC3L._SL500_AA280_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Khatchaturian-Masquerade-Ballet-Music-I-III/dp/B002ECU3MM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=2WB1G8B0ZCP76&coliid=I3EOW1HGG30IIA/?tag=goodmusicguideco)
See also ASIN B007Q5EXFK (http://www.amazon.com/Khachaturian-Masquerade-Ballet-Single/dp/B007Q5EXFK/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=2WB1G8B0ZCP76&coliid=I10MT2GOFF1BLO/?tag=goodmusicguideco)

As the Masquerade suite comes from music for a play, I always assumed there wasn't much more to it than what was in the suite. But according to this page there are 86 minutes of music in total! All I can think is, maybe this is a recording of the actual play?
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: cilgwyn on August 24, 2012, 06:16:18 AM
Quote from: eyeresist on August 23, 2012, 05:29:08 PM
I'm afraid I haven't heard the Stokowski recording - I imagine it might be cut. I've read that the Tjeknavorian recording is cut. I don't know what Khatchaturian admirers think of it (are there such things? most people only acknowledge the ballet excerpts) - I admit that its appeal to me depends to some extent on something perverse in my personality ;)

I have Stanley Black conducting the Masquerade suite on Decca's "Essential Khachaturian" set. Pretty good, but I think my affection still lies with the composer-conducted performance, less hard-hitting but more romantic.

Incidentally, I'm not sure what to make of this Amazon entry:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513nWOMIC3L._SL500_AA280_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Khatchaturian-Masquerade-Ballet-Music-I-III/dp/B002ECU3MM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=2WB1G8B0ZCP76&coliid=I3EOW1HGG30IIA/?tag=goodmusicguideco)
See also ASIN B007Q5EXFK (http://www.amazon.com/Khachaturian-Masquerade-Ballet-Single/dp/B007Q5EXFK/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=2WB1G8B0ZCP76&coliid=I10MT2GOFF1BLO/?tag=goodmusicguideco)

As the Masquerade suite comes from music for a play, I always assumed there wasn't much more to it than what was in the suite. But according to this page there are 86 minutes of music in total! All I can think is, maybe this is a recording of the actual play?
::) The Masquerade/amazon entry is a bit of a mystery to me,too! Perhaps Vandermolen will know? I think the incidental music to Masquerade is one of his more subtle scores. Well,the quieter bits,anyway! ;D
  As to 'Khatchaturian admirers'! I was just trying to think of a way to describe them! As I was typing it,I was thinking,hm? Not too sure about this! Does anyone actually 'admire' his music?!
Of course,if you do,I don't see why you shouldn't? :)

As to Stanley Black. I'm not sure about his expertise in the field;but the name does bring back cosy memories of coming back from the public library with piles of books and exciting looking records.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: John Copeland on February 08, 2013, 09:26:54 PM
It is breath-taking stuff from Yuri Siminov at the helm...the swellingest part of the Adagio from Spartacus.  It will be hard to find it done better.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_zDCvwQhkmxeWVlZ1JkM2hHRGc/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_zDCvwQhkmxeWVlZ1JkM2hHRGc/edit?usp=sharing)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: madaboutmahler on March 23, 2013, 01:29:23 PM
My first listen to the 2nd symphony is coming to an end and I have absolutely loved it! This was the first time I had heard a large scale work from Khachaturian and I'm impressed. Loved the Dies Irae section in the third movement, and it's all so brilliantly orchestrated, thrilling and captivating! Will be keen to hear more from this composer! :)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Tapkaara on June 17, 2013, 09:29:39 PM
Khachaturian is always a favorite of mine. I go through periods of listening to one composer almost exclusively and then, after a while, I move to someone else to keep it fresh. Anyhow, I am currently on a Khachaturian kick again.

Over the weekend I took in the complete Gayne ballet. This one is with S. Gorkovenko conducting the St. Petersburg  Radio and TV Orchestra. Although a little repetitive at times in its "full form," I really prefer listening to the whole thing as opposed to a suite. Such great music all the way through...never could understand why the whole ballet is hardly ever recorded.

The CD in question is an expensive Japanese import.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: snyprrr on June 15, 2014, 01:17:01 PM
Based on this Thread- Poooor Khach! Must go listen to Symphony 3! :laugh:
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: snyprrr on June 15, 2014, 01:29:48 PM
Quote from: snyprrr on June 15, 2014, 01:17:01 PM
Based on this Thread- Poooor Khach! Must go listen to Symphony 3! :laugh:

CRrrrrraaaaaaaaap!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on June 17, 2014, 03:27:00 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on June 15, 2014, 01:29:48 PM
CRrrrrraaaaaaaaap!!!!!!!!!

I rather like it. It has a macabre fascination.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: snyprrr on June 17, 2014, 06:51:05 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 17, 2014, 03:27:00 AM
I rather like it. It has a macabre fascination.

:laugh:- yes, it just frightens me the mood I'd have to be in to go "all in"! Is this really what "The Officials" liked????
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on June 17, 2014, 09:01:19 AM
Quote from: snyprrr on June 17, 2014, 06:51:05 AM
:laugh:- yes, it just frightens me the mood I'd have to be in to go "all in"! Is this really what "The Officials" liked????

I think that David Fanning said that it reminded him of those over-the-top gymnastic displays in Red Square during the Stalinist era and that it likewise had a ghasly appeal.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: snyprrr on June 18, 2014, 06:24:23 AM
ok, I like the Violin Concerto. Score 2 for Khachy. (along with CC)

Anyone familiar with the 3 Late Concerto-Rhapsody works, for violin, cello, and, I think, piano? Do I remember them being so much eh?
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Scion7 on July 22, 2016, 07:18:18 PM
I was looking through the Amazon catalogue for the 1932 Sonata for Violin and Piano,
and noticed a real blunder - the Prelude label has a Leonid & Nina Kogan CD that lists KAREN Kachaturian's (Aram's nephew) 3-movement 1947 Sonate Op.1 in g for violin and piano under Aram.  There is no note on the back that this is Karen's work.  Allegro-Andante-Presto

A. Khachaturian's sonata is in two movements: I. Lent. Rubato ed espressivo
                                                                    II. Allegro ma non troppo

There are many YT uploads mixing this up, also.  <face-palm>



Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Scion7 on July 23, 2016, 04:22:00 PM
This is a good performance of the piano Toccata in Eb-, Op.11 1932

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HqYvECh3lg

Her Elgar album received good reviews.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 23, 2016, 07:17:21 PM
What does everyone think of Khachaturian's Violin Concerto? Best performance?
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Scion7 on July 23, 2016, 11:30:34 PM
THE very best?  This one, the 1965 recording by Oistrakh, Khachaturian, Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra:

(http://s31.postimg.org/4zi7cdn3f/K_V_C_O_K_MRSO.jpg)

^ click

Issued in 1967-1971-1977-etc.

The Mordkovitch, Perlman, and Kogan are all very good in "second place."
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Rons_talking on July 24, 2016, 05:57:44 AM
It was later in life that I discovered Khache's non-ballet music.  I really like the concerti; it's hard to pick out a favorite. The symphonies are new to me; they sound great from what I've heard. It's good to see a Khachaturian thread. A lot of Americans only know him by the Sabre Dance and perhaps, Sparticus. When I first heard the Piano Concerto I was extremely impressed. I still listen to the concerti but i should broaden my listening (and CD collection).
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Scion7 on July 24, 2016, 06:10:14 AM
(http://s32.postimg.org/bulkli8kl/K_S_P.jpg)

If only Weinberg was in the photo . . .  :-\
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 24, 2016, 08:32:30 AM
Quote from: Scion7 on July 24, 2016, 06:10:14 AM
(http://s32.postimg.org/bulkli8kl/K_S_P.jpg)

If only Weinberg was in the photo . . .  :-\

If only Weinberg was in the photo instead of Khachaturian. :)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Scion7 on July 24, 2016, 06:04:33 PM
Why would you want that?  Are you trying to push out the poor l'il Armenian!?!?   ???

Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 24, 2016, 06:23:52 PM
Quote from: Scion7 on July 24, 2016, 06:04:33 PM
Why would you want that?  Are you trying to push out the poor l'il Armenian!?!?   ???

I'm just joking around.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Scion7 on July 24, 2016, 06:43:54 PM
I know.
Just like you joke around about Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, et al - we know you have a secret stash and daily sched'd listening times for them!
:)

But back on topic - the later Concert-Rhapsody (1961) is a superior piece over the Concerto.  But it doesn't have that fiery first movement of the concerto.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71iVVQTe3VL._SL1080_.jpg) 

[asin]B009P353D2[/asin]
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 24, 2016, 06:50:42 PM
Quote from: Scion7 on July 24, 2016, 06:43:54 PM
I know.
Just like you joke around about Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, et al - we know you have a secret stash and daily sched'd listening times for them!
:)

But back on topic - the later Concert-Rhapsody (1961) is a superior piece over the Concerto.  But it doesn't have that fiery first movement of the concerto.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71iVVQTe3VL._SL1080_.jpg) 

[asin]B009P353D2[/asin]

;D Hey! I like Beethoven a lot! Take that back!

I can't say I know the Concerto-Rhapsody either.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Scion7 on July 24, 2016, 06:52:14 PM
You can find just about all of Khachaturian's output on YT if you want to listen to it.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: cilgwyn on August 26, 2016, 02:11:55 AM
Cpo are releasing the first in a projected cycle of Khatchaturian symphonies,beginning with the Second;scheduled for release on September 2nd.
You can see the new cd and it's 'artwork' on Amazon and Presto (for example) right now. I'm not sure if it will better the Jarvi Chandos which is one of the best thing Jarvi has ever done imho!! It would be nice if they could come up with a really good No 1,though. I have the RCA Tjeknavorian No 1 in a superb transfer,thanks to someone on this website. The best recording ever. What a pity Jarvi couldn't have had a crack at it when he was recording for Chandos! :(
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Autumn Leaves on August 26, 2016, 02:17:47 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on August 26, 2016, 02:11:55 AM
Cpo are releasing the first in a projected cycle of Khatchaturian symphonies,beginning with the Second;scheduled for release on September 2nd.
You can see the new cd and it's 'artwork' on Amazon and Presto (for example) right now. I'm not sure if it will better the Jarvi Chandos which is one of the best thing Jarvi has ever done imho!! It would be nice if they could come up with a really good No 1,though. I have the RCA Tjeknavorian No 1 in a superb transfer,thanks to someone on this website. The best recording ever. What a pity Jarvi couldn't have had a crack at it when he was recording for Chandos! :(

Thanks for your post - I was just browsing Amazon this evening looking for Khachaturian recordings and seen the new Symphony #2 pictured:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81zGx8UlVYL._SL1429_.jpg)

Will definitely be following this series with interest. I have all the ASV Symphony recordings and while they are very enthusiastically played a better option would be nice.

Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: cilgwyn on August 26, 2016, 04:06:29 AM
Cpo are usually pretty good;so I have some hope for this project! Cpo are usually very good. Also, The Robert- Schumann-Philharmonic made a rather good recording of Pizzetti's gloriously,romantic Canti della stagione alta for Piano & orchestra. One of Marco Polo's all round better efforts. A different conductor here,though,and very different music. In lieu of a cd release of the RCA Tjeknavorian ;what I would like to see is a really good recording of the First Symphony. Not sure if this is the right combi for the job;but fingers crossed! Having said that,much as I enjoy Khatchaturian's music,I would really have preferred Cpo to choose a less recorded Soviet composer. There ARE quite allot to choose from!!!
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on August 26, 2016, 08:29:42 AM
Quote from: DSCH71 on August 26, 2016, 02:17:47 AM
Thanks for your post - I was just browsing Amazon this evening looking for Khachaturian recordings and seen the new Symphony #2 pictured:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81zGx8UlVYL._SL1429_.jpg)

Will definitely be following this series with interest. I have all the ASV Symphony recordings and while they are very enthusiastically played a better option would be nice.
Looks very interesting release and love the cover art.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: cilgwyn on August 26, 2016, 01:36:20 PM
I will hold off for now! But yes,I do like the cover art. If they do manage a good recording of No 1 they might just tempt me. Some people might say there are too many recordings of Khatchaturian;but I don't think there are that many satisfactory recordings of the symphonies. And the only good one of No 1 (superb!) is a prisoner in the RCA (what exactly are they known as now,by the way?) vaults!! >:( :(
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: cilgwyn on October 21, 2016, 04:38:19 AM
Quote from: Conor71 on August 26, 2016, 02:17:47 AM
Thanks for your post - I was just browsing Amazon this evening looking for Khachaturian recordings and seen the new Symphony #2 pictured:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81zGx8UlVYL._SL1429_.jpg)

Will definitely be following this series with interest. I have all the ASV Symphony recordings and while they are very enthusiastically played a better option would be nice.
Judging from the Musicweb review of this cd,the signs are promising for follow up recordings of No's 1 & 3. Until Tjeknavorian's marvellous RCA reading of his First Symphony,which brings out all the sweeping grandeur of this score,is released on cd,a really good new recording is urgently required by those who haven't been dissuaded of this scores qualities by the wholly inadequate recordings available. Until you hear Tjeknavorians first recording of this score,you really haven't heard itl! Period! The ASV one is absolutely underwhelming,to put it mildly. One for the charity shops,sadly! Hopefully,Cpo will come up trumps?!
As to the third symphony. I like David Fanning's response to it. Yes,it does make me think of those Soviet era displays. Some of Khrennikov's music has a similar effect......but Khatchaturian's gift is to make it more fun. So bad it's good! Soviet poster art also springs to mind. It will be interesting to hear what this team come up with. I have to say I do like Cpo's artwork. It's just so apt! They were just as great with their recent Kabalevsky sets of the symphonies and piano concertos. I loved the artwork on the piano concertos set,in particular. I can't help wondering what they will choose for the third symphony.  I really am quite a fan of their art department. Their Antheil releases were fantastic,too! Their recent Holbrooke orchestral cds,just spot on!!
Groovey,man!! ;D
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Vaulted on October 23, 2016, 04:33:08 PM
Quote from: cilgwyn on October 21, 2016, 04:38:19 AMUntil Tjeknavorian's marvellous RCA reading of his First Symphony,which brings out all the sweeping grandeur of this score,is released on cd,a really good new recording is urgently required by those who haven't been dissuaded of this scores qualities by the wholly inadequate recordings available. Until you hear Tjeknavorians first recording of this score,you really haven't heard itl!
You don't like this one?
[asin]B00579EKMS[/asin]
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on October 24, 2016, 12:34:50 AM
Quote from: Vaulted on October 23, 2016, 04:33:08 PM
You don't like this one?
[asin]B00KUEPKNS[/asin]
I know the question is not addressed to me. That is indeed a good version with the composer conducting but the Tjeknavorian LSO version is still the best.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on March 15, 2017, 06:26:49 PM
I must to say this almost underrated composer deserves more attention. His music has a enjoyable Armenian influence (which is very engaging), powerful drama and a distinctive festive touch. I just played the 3 symphonies, I liked all of them (even the 'high-calorie' 3rd), the first one left me pleasantly impressed, from the very beginning I was hooked, in fact I consider this work one of the most appealing first symphonies of any composer; the 2nd is the best IMHO, I love this thing, Khachaturian was inspired enough to give life to such an astounding war piece (he had nothing to envy Shostakovich) (I think it's one of my favorite Soviet/Russian symphonies). And finally is the 3rd: really bombastic, plenty of organ and trumpets... there were few moments of rest, this kind of works was in the best interest of the Soviet authorities. I highlight certain melodic lines in this piece. I must revisit mainly the concertos and ballets, although I know they will be very amusing!
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on March 16, 2017, 04:46:59 AM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on March 15, 2017, 06:26:49 PM
I must to say this almost underrated composer deserves more attention. His music has a enjoyable Armenian influence (which is very engaging), powerful drama and a distinctive festive touch. I just played the 3 symphonies, I liked all of them (even the 'high-calorie' 3rd), the first one left me pleasantly impressed, from the very beginning I was hooked, in fact I consider this work one of the most appealing first symphonies of any composer; the 2nd is the best IMHO, I love this thing, Khachaturian was inspired enough to give life to such an astounding war piece (he had nothing to envy Shostakovich) (I think it's one of my favorite Soviet/Russian symphonies). And finally is the 3rd: really bombastic, plenty of organ and trumpets... there were few moments of rest, this kind of works was in the best interest of the Soviet authorities. I highlight certain melodic lines in this piece. I must revisit mainly the concertos and ballets, although I know they will be very amusing!
I very much agree with your comments here. Which versions of the symphonies did you listen to?
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: cilgwyn on March 16, 2017, 07:45:49 AM
I love his first two symphonies and tend to agree with SymphonicAddict,here (and vandermolen). Although,I haven't heard the third for years. Which reminds me. I have got it on the pc,somewhere? I also love the Violin and Piano Concertos,his Masquerade Suite,and even parts of Spartacus.Recently, I made a cd-r of the Khakhidze performance of Gayaneh. This is deleted and I sadly have failed to find an affordable copy over the years. When I was a youngster (about one hundred years ago) I had the Tjeknavorian RCA recording,which I played to death;usually full blast! Over the years I have read numerous posts criticising this recording and praising the Khakhidze to the roof! Anyway,I finally made a cd-r set from a video on Youtube. I must say I was absolutely blown away (as the cliche goes) by this performance. It is soo-ooo exciting! In fact,exciting isn't an exciting enough word for that recording!! The Tjeknavorian is a travesty by comparison. Why Melodiya don't put this recording at the top of their reissue plans,as a matter of urgency,beats me (as the Americans say!)? I actually do enjoy some of Khrennikov's music (unfortunately! ::)) but I can only think that it's politics (he's back in favour there,apparently) that warrants a reissue of his music before music of this quality in such an absolutely stunning performance!

(http://i.imgur.com/Re0jbPa.jpg)

Warning! Extremely exciting recording!!! ??? :o ;D
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on March 16, 2017, 12:08:16 PM
Quote from: cilgwyn on March 16, 2017, 07:45:49 AM
I love his first two symphonies and tend to agree with SymphonicAddict,here (and vandermolen). Although,I haven't heard the third for years. Which reminds me. I have got it on the pc,somewhere? I also love the Violin and Piano Concertos,his Masquerade Suite,and even parts of Spartacus.Recently, I made a cd-r of the Khakhidze performance of Gayaneh. This is deleted and I sadly have failed to find an affordable copy over the years. When I was a youngster (about one hundred years ago) I had the Tjeknavorian RCA recording,which I played to death;usually full blast! Over the years I have read numerous posts criticising this recording and praising the Khakhidze to the roof! Anyway,I finally made a cd-r set from a video on Youtube. I must say I was absolutely blown away (as the cliche goes) by this performance. It is soo-ooo exciting! In fact,exciting isn't an exciting enough word for that recording!! The Tjeknavorian is a travesty by comparison. Why Melodiya don't put this recording at the top of their reissue plans,as a matter of urgency,beats me (as the Americans say!)? I actually do enjoy some of Khrennikov's music (unfortunately! ::)) but I can only think that it's politics (he's back in favour there,apparently) that warrants a reissue of his music before music of this quality in such an absolutely stunning performance!

(http://i.imgur.com/Re0jbPa.jpg)

Warning! Extremely exciting recording!!! ??? :o ;D
I like the slow movement of Khrennikov's Second Symphony. I actually saw his lugubrious person in the flesh at the Bolshoi in Moscow on New Year's Day 1986 as they were performing a rather insipid ballet he had composed.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on March 16, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on March 16, 2017, 04:46:59 AM
I very much agree with your comments here. Which versions of the symphonies did you listen to?

In the 1st symphony I heard the recording of Tjeknavorian with the Armenian Philharmonic Orchestra (label: ASW)
In the 2nd symphony the thundering recording with Järvi and the Royal Scottish National Orchestra (Chandos)
For the 3rd I played the recording of Chandos with Glushchenko and the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra (I read comments about the recording of Tjeknavorian where the organ did not sound fully, but the Chandos was devastating!)
They are the recordings I have of the symphonies. I also have the recording that the gentleman cilgwyn posted (Kakhidze), but I have not heard it yet.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on March 16, 2017, 01:39:16 PM
Quote from: cilgwyn on March 16, 2017, 07:45:49 AM
I love his first two symphonies and tend to agree with SymphonicAddict,here (and vandermolen). Although,I haven't heard the third for years. Which reminds me. I have got it on the pc,somewhere? I also love the Violin and Piano Concertos,his Masquerade Suite,and even parts of Spartacus.Recently, I made a cd-r of the Khakhidze performance of Gayaneh. This is deleted and I sadly have failed to find an affordable copy over the years. When I was a youngster (about one hundred years ago) I had the Tjeknavorian RCA recording,which I played to death;usually full blast! Over the years I have read numerous posts criticising this recording and praising the Khakhidze to the roof! Anyway,I finally made a cd-r set from a video on Youtube. I must say I was absolutely blown away (as the cliche goes) by this performance. It is soo-ooo exciting! In fact,exciting isn't an exciting enough word for that recording!! The Tjeknavorian is a travesty by comparison. Why Melodiya don't put this recording at the top of their reissue plans,as a matter of urgency,beats me (as the Americans say!)? I actually do enjoy some of Khrennikov's music (unfortunately! ::)) but I can only think that it's politics (he's back in favour there,apparently) that warrants a reissue of his music before music of this quality in such an absolutely stunning performance!

(http://i.imgur.com/Re0jbPa.jpg)

Warning! Extremely exciting recording!!! ??? :o ;D

It's a good sign to give it a try  ;D
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on March 16, 2017, 02:47:33 PM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on March 16, 2017, 01:36:21 PM
In the 1st symphony I heard the recording of Tjeknavorian with the Armenian Philharmonic Orchestra (label: ASW)
In the 2nd symphony the thundering recording with Järvi and the Royal Scottish National Orchestra (Chandos)
For the 3rd I played the recording of Chandos with Glushchenko and the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra (I read comments about the recording of Tjeknavorian where the organ did not sound fully, but the Chandos was devastating!)
They are the recordings I have of the symphonies. I also have the recording that the gentleman cilgwyn posted (Kakhidze), but I have not heard it yet.
Thanks. I think that those are great recordings for 2 and 3. It's such a shame that Tjeknavorian's earlier RCA release with the LSO of Symphony 1 was never issued on CD.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 24, 2018, 05:40:37 PM
cilgwyn was right when commented about Gayaneh and this recording:

(http://i.imgur.com/Re0jbPa.jpg)

Today I could listen to the whole ballet. There is no way to be bored by this, the music is raving, frenzied, catchy, infectious, riotous, ultra-passionate and quite exotic. This ballet IS a real treat, tons of assured amusement. If you are looking for something fun with intensely catchy rhythms/tunes, this is for you.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on August 25, 2018, 12:31:52 AM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on August 24, 2018, 05:40:37 PM
cilgwyn was right when commented about Gayaneh and this recording:

(http://i.imgur.com/Re0jbPa.jpg)

Today I could listen to the whole ballet. There is no way to be bored by this, the music is raving, frenzied, catchy, infectious, riotous, ultra-passionate and quite exotic. This ballet IS a real treat, tons of assured amusement. If you are looking for something fun with intensely catchy rhythms/tunes, this is for you.

That's very interesting to hear Cesar. Some time ago I bought a recording with Tjeknavorian conducting the 'National Philharmonic Orchestra'. They used the same cover image as the RCA LP release of him conducting the First Symphony with the LSO and for a moment I thought that they had finally released that unsurpassed recording on CD - so I was a bit disappointed. Now, your post has encouraged me to listen to the complete Gayaneh. Oddly enough the cover image that you posted is identical to the one used on the CD including the composer's own recording of his underrated First Symphony:
[asin]B00ET820F2[/asin]
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 25, 2018, 12:44:27 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 25, 2018, 12:31:52 AM
That's very interesting to hear Cesar. Some time ago I bought a recording with Tjeknavorian conducting the 'National Philharmonic Orchestra'. They used the same cover image as the RCA LP release of him conducting the First Symphony with the LSO and for a moment I thought that they had finally released that unsurpassed recording on CD - so I was a bit disappointed. Now, your post has encouraged me to listen to the complete Gayaneh. Oddly enough the cover image that you posted is identical to the one used on the CD including the composer's own recording of his underrated First Symphony:
[asin]B00ET820F2[/asin]

I never knew the recording of the 1st with Tjeknavorian and the LSO. It's a shame because that symphony is quite appealing, and a good candidate for a fine example of a 1st symphony.

As for Gayaneh, the music is often carefree with some deeply lovely moments, but the rule with this work is to have fun!  8)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 20, 2018, 07:34:52 AM
I finally managed to acquire the Kakhidze complete cd recording of Khatchaturian's Gayaneh,at a reasonable price.. I have had the recording as a download for sometime;but cd-r's just don't feel the same,somehow. Maybe,it's my age?! Sellers keep asking huge prices for this set,so I'm really looking forward to owning it! ;D I just hope it's in the condition described ("very good!"). It'll be nice to have all the track listings and timings too.
It's been a good week for cd purchases (but not my bank account! :(). Three deleted cd sets that are hard to find,at affordable prices,in one week!!!!

Daniel Jones: String Quartets   Chandos 2 cd's
Khatchaturian: Gayaneh Kakhidze   Melodiya 2 cd's
Tubin: Kratt     Alba 2 cd's

(https://i.imgur.com/KJ7oVsf.jpg)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on December 20, 2018, 09:32:11 AM
That ballet is assured FUN! One of the catchiest works I know.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 21, 2018, 02:31:16 AM
I've got to say that bit,in Gayaneh,depicting the fire is great on full throttle! Just thrilling,exciting scoring! Fun!! ;D The Kakhidze recording beats the Tjeknavorian on RCA (good as it is) hands down! I'd have loved to have been able to be a fly on the wall,watching them recording it,too!
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 21, 2018, 02:38:40 AM
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on August 25, 2018, 12:44:27 PM
I never knew the recording of the 1st with Tjeknavorian and the LSO. It's a shame because that symphony is quite appealing, and a good candidate for a fine example of a 1st symphony.

As for Gayaneh, the music is often carefree with some deeply lovely moments, but the rule with this work is to have fun!  8)
It really does need to be reissued. Tjeknavorian's RCA recording really does have a majesty,sweep and grandeur to it. He holds the whole edifice,together. It has an epic feel to it. Some of is quite thrilling;and the sound quality is excellent. You need to hear this recording before you pass verdict! I'm lucky! Someone made a really first rate,transfer from the original Lp,for me. I wonder how vandermolen is able to hear it? Have you a turntable (or record player?) or did you manage to get a transfer made,somehow?
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: kyjo on December 21, 2018, 02:14:20 PM
I'm hoping Naxos or CPO will get around to issuing a new recording of the 1st Symphony, seeing as they both recently issued recordings of the 2nd.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 22, 2018, 02:24:04 AM
Unfortunately,the Kakhidze recording of Gayaneh,which arrived today,had stickers all over the case (non=peel off,but the case can be replaced). Worse! The second cd in the set is snapped part way through!!! I can see a request for a refund going off! I did had a feeling this one was too good to be true!! :( So,it's back to my 2 cd-r set;which I recorded via youtube,some time ago! :( ;D As Windsor Davies' Sergeant Major,of Seventies sitcom It Aint Half Hot Mum fame,might have said:

(https://i.imgur.com/a6MqYV3.jpg)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on December 23, 2018, 01:28:58 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 21, 2018, 02:38:40 AM
It really does need to be reissued. Tjeknavorian's RCA recording really does have a majesty,sweep and grandeur to it. He holds the whole edifice,together. It has an epic feel to it. Some of is quite thrilling;and the sound quality is excellent. You need to hear this recording before you pass verdict! I'm lucky! Someone made a really first rate,transfer from the original Lp,for me. I wonder how vandermolen is able to hear it? Have you a turntable (or record player?) or did you manage to get a transfer made,somehow?
No, I haven't heard it for years - but it lives on in my memory as it was so much better than all the other recordings. The only other one I like is the very old Alexander Gauk version but the sound is poor. I'm debating getting one of those new 'all in one' turntables and adding in a better quality stylus so that I can play and hopefully not chew up my old LPs which survived 'The Great Purge' of a few years ago. The Tjeknavorian Khachaturian Symphony No.1 on RCA with the LSO should be amongst them.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on December 23, 2018, 01:30:45 AM
Quote from: kyjo on December 21, 2018, 02:14:20 PM
I'm hoping Naxos or CPO will get around to issuing a new recording of the 1st Symphony, seeing as they both recently issued recordings of the 2nd.
+1
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on December 23, 2018, 01:34:18 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 22, 2018, 02:24:04 AM
Unfortunately,the Kakhidze recording of Gayaneh,which arrived today,had stickers all over the case (non=peel off,but the case can be replaced). Worse! The second cd in the set is snapped part way through!!! I can see a request for a refund going off! I did had a feeling this one was too good to be true!! :( So,it's back to my 2 cd-r set;which I recorded via youtube,some time ago! :( ;D As Windsor Davies' Sergeant Major,of Seventies sitcom It Aint Half Hot Mum fame,might have said:

(https://i.imgur.com/a6MqYV3.jpg)

That's very bad. I was delighted to find a recording of Dona Nobis Pacem by Vaughan Williams on an old Phillips LP at a second hand record shop in Manchester in the 1970s (Abravanel). I'd never heard it before. When I got on the train to return to London I decided to check the condition of the disc. Inside was an LP of Schubert's Trout Quintet.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 23, 2018, 02:48:58 AM
The cd was from a very well know purveyor. Quite ubiquitous,really! You know the one?!! Rossini wrote an overture (and an opera! ;D) about one. Not that I'm accusing them of that!! To be fair,as always in my experience of them,I had a prompt response and a refund will be provided as soon as they receive the broken wreck!! ::) Very disappointing,considering that the set is hard to get s/h at an affordable price. I'm also,rather shocked that Melodiya haven't reissued that recording. He is,and was,one of the most popular composers of the soviet era. Even Khrennikov got a 3cd box set before this famous ballet! (Perhaps they're still a bit scared of him?!).
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on December 23, 2018, 03:00:54 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 23, 2018, 02:48:58 AM
The cd was from a very well know purveyor. Quite ubiquitous,really! You know the one?!! Rossini wrote an overture (and an opera! ;D) about one. Not that I'm accusing them of that!! To be fair,as always in my experience of them,I had a prompt response and a refund will be provided as soon as they receive the broken wreck!! ::) Very disappointing,considering that the set is hard to get s/h at an affordable price. I'm also,rather shocked that Melodiya haven't reissued that recording. He is,and was,one of the most popular composers of the soviet era. Even Khrennikov got a 3cd box set before this famous ballet! (Perhaps they're still a bit scared of him?!).

Yes, I know that purveyor very well. They had a different name once, connected with a restraining device from Tudor England, which was often to be found in the village green and where troublemakers would be forced to sit and have rotten fruit etc thrown at them. I was once in such a device and had sopping wet sponges thrown at me, but all in a good cause. My then pupils clearly enjoyed the activity, some entering into the spirit of the activity with malicious glee.

I'm not sure that their quality control is that good as they send out so much stuff and they are not v helpful about responding to emails about the product, although I've had no problem with refunds.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 23, 2018, 04:43:01 AM
I remember once receiving some dvds from them. There were scratches on them and they didn't play properly. I sent them back and was surprised to receive a replacement with scratches at least several times worse!! I remember telling someone that they looked like Torville & dean had been skating on them! I have never enquired about a product & at least I know that they won't quibble over a refund if something is wrong with the thing! But their prices?! They're often so low compared to others. To be fair I've had some wonderful bargains.  It does seem like the luck of the draw with them. Lately,I have noticed an increase in the amount of items I need to complain about. Today,I bought a cd of Nielsen's Fourth & decided to buy it from someone else,even though the price was higher!! I'm hoping the Alba set of Tubin's Kratt will be in playable condition and!! ::) :( ;D Cases can be replaced,however. I've got loads of empty jewel cases of every kind. It's the cd's I'm worried about. And please don't let the booklet be reeking of fags!!! ???
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 23, 2018, 04:55:47 AM
A scan of the cd I received;with the crack visible (if you look closely) at top,right! ??? :o :( And the back of the jewel case! :(

(https://i.imgur.com/Rw1gvP9.jpg)      (https://i.imgur.com/jf80Vrr.jpg)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on December 23, 2018, 07:53:16 AM
Quote from: cilgwyn on December 23, 2018, 04:55:47 AM
A scan of the cd I received;with the crack visible (if you look closely) at top,right! ??? :o :( And the back of the jewel case! :(

(https://i.imgur.com/Rw1gvP9.jpg)      (https://i.imgur.com/jf80Vrr.jpg)

Yes, a shame. They should have checked the condition before posting.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 23, 2018, 03:13:51 PM
What a disappointment! I was even playing that bit with the fire breaking out,in my head,in anticipation!! The front is just as bad!! Funnily enough,I did have a feeling that this was too good to be true!!  :( ;D I notice,on the back of the case ;Artistic supervision : Aram Khatchaturyan! The great man himself! I was 16/17 years old when these recording sessions took place;only a few months before his death. I remember hearing that he had died on the radio. I had the RCA 2 Lp Tjeknavorian set,which was,supposedly,a complete recording. To be fair,it was excitingly played,by thev pick-up orchestra,and in excellent sound;but absolutely,pales in comparison to this recording.,which really brings out the splendour and exotic orchestration,to thrilling effect,like no other! Once you hear this,the Tjeknavorian recording is redundant. Although,I'll keep it for old times sake..........and I'm back to those cd-r's,aren't I?!! :( ;D Come on Melodiya. Let's have a nice,smart,looking,reissue!!
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 27, 2020, 06:41:31 PM
A new movie about Khachaturian's life titled  "Sabre Dance" (different from the same title released in 2016) was released in Armenia, Japan and Russia this year. Hope it will be released in North America and Europe soon.

News article

https://en.armradio.am/2019/11/06/sabre-dance-aram-khachaturian-biopic-to-be-presented-at-american-film-market/


Trailer

https://youtu.be/a0vhOwS51Cg
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 29, 2020, 04:13:31 PM
Cross-posted from the 'Purchases' thread:

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 29, 2020, 01:10:10 PMJust bought:

(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/00743625085822.jpg)(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/00743625085921.jpg)(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/00743625088427.jpg)(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/00743625094923.jpg)(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/00743625096620.jpg)(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/00743625094626.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81qaC0JI-%2BL._SL1089_.jpg)(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/555093-2.jpg)(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/555007-2.jpg)(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/777918-2.jpg)

I tried to avoid any duplication from my dad's own Khachaturian collection. I'm sure he'll want copies of all these. ;D

A lot of this music will be new to me and some of it will not as I already knew the Piano Concerto, much of Spartacus, a few excerpts from Gayane and perhaps the Violin Concerto. I do believe I have heard the 2nd symphony, but I can't recall much about it. I've come to enjoy his music much in the way a person may enjoy say their favorite ice cream or candy bar --- a little does seem to go a long way and you don't want to overdo it. I do enjoy what I've heard from him and think that Armenian folk influence (amongst other folk influences) really gives his music some earthiness that I find quite appealing. I certainly understand why someone wouldn't enjoy Khachaturian, but despite the misconceived notion of a lack of depth in his music, there is some loveliness and beauty to be found here. That famous Adagio from Spartacus being a case in point. Anyway, I'm looking forward to the discovery (and rediscovery) of this composer's music.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Roy Bland on June 29, 2020, 05:29:21 PM
A defect in ASV series is sound too much bombastic IMHO,this recording is superior
(http://www.foothillrecords.com/store/images/Citadel-Classical/88131-khachaturian_lrg.jpg)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 29, 2020, 06:20:31 PM
Quote from: Roy Bland on June 29, 2020, 05:29:21 PM
A defect in ASV series is sound too much bombastic IMHO,this recording is superior
(http://www.foothillrecords.com/store/images/Citadel-Classical/88131-khachaturian_lrg.jpg)

Good! I like bombast! :D

Special edit: I'll also say that I did listen to about 15 minutes worth of one of the ASV recordings and I didn't have any issues with the sound quality.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on June 29, 2020, 10:17:42 PM
Quote from: Roy Bland on June 29, 2020, 05:29:21 PM
A defect in ASV series is sound too much bombastic IMHO,this recording is superior
(http://www.foothillrecords.com/store/images/Citadel-Classical/88131-khachaturian_lrg.jpg)
Is that a CD or LP?
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on June 29, 2020, 10:26:27 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 29, 2020, 04:13:31 PM
Cross-posted from the 'Purchases' thread:

A lot of this music will be new to me and some of it will not as I already knew the Piano Concerto, much of Spartacus, a few excerpts from Gayane and perhaps the Violin Concerto. I do believe I have heard the 2nd symphony, but I can't recall much about it. I've come to enjoy his music much in the way a person may enjoy say their favorite ice cream or candy bar --- a little does seem to go a long way and you don't want to overdo it. I do enjoy what I've heard from him and think that Armenian folk influence (amongst other folk influences) really gives his music some earthiness that I find quite appealing. I certainly understand why someone wouldn't enjoy Khachaturian, but despite the misconceived notion of a lack of depth in his music, there is some loveliness and beauty to be found here. That famous Adagio from Spartacus being a case in point. Anyway, I'm looking forward to the discovery (and rediscovery) of this composer's music.
I have all those although only the Cello Concerto from the CPO series. I especially like the underrated symphonies, even the notorious No.3. The big disappointment for me in the ASV series was not the recordings but the inferiority on the performance of Symphony No.1 (my favourite) compared with Tjeknavorian's earlier recording with the LSO. I know that I go on and on about this but it is a great shame that (like Bax's 3rd Symphony/LSO, Downes) it was never released on CD. I'm hopeful that one day it may re-appear, Phoenix-like in a Tjeknavorian boxed set. The ASV CD is enjoyable enough but without anything like the epic sweep of that earlier recording. For Symphony No.2 my favourite is the elder Jarvi's cataclysmic performance on Chandos with the RSNO. Still, I'm sure you'll enjoy discovering those works and the combination of symphonies 1 and 3 on the same CD makes for an enjoyable programme. Here are my favourite recordings of the symphonies although I also like Stokowski's old recording of Symphony No.3:
(http://[img][img])[/img][/img]
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: relm1 on June 30, 2020, 05:41:05 AM
Quote from: Roy Bland on June 29, 2020, 05:29:21 PM
A defect in ASV series is sound too much bombastic IMHO,this recording is superior
(http://www.foothillrecords.com/store/images/Citadel-Classical/88131-khachaturian_lrg.jpg)

Wait a second...

(https://img.discogs.com/yoSOEqRhviypPzDtEMdnxEkkhXk=/fit-in/600x598/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1058270-1188810508.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 30, 2020, 05:49:30 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 29, 2020, 10:26:27 PM
I have all those although only the Cello Concerto from the CPO series. I especially like the underrated symphonies, even the notorious No.3. The big disappointment for me in the ASV series was not the recordings but the inferiority on the performance of Symphony No.1 (my favourite) compared with Tjeknavorian's earlier recording with the LSO. I know that I go on and on about this but it is a great shame that (like Bax's 3rd Symphony/LSO, Downes) it was never released on CD. I'm hopeful that one day it may re-appear, Phoenix-like in a Tjeknavorian boxed set. The ASV CD is enjoyable enough but without anything like the epic sweep of that earlier recording. For Symphony No.2 my favourite is the elder Jarvi's cataclysmic performance on Chandos with the RSNO. Still, I'm sure you'll enjoy discovering those works and the combination of symphonies 1 and 3 on the same CD makes for an enjoyable programme. Here are my favourite recordings of the symphonies although I also like Stokowski's old recording of Symphony No.3:
(http://[img][img])[/img][/img]

Thanks for the feedback, Jeffrey. Yeah, I wish that older recording from Tjeknavorian was available on CD. I would definitely buy it, but the ASV is all we have. You don't like any of the ballets like Spartacus or Gayane?

Edit: There is an older Alexander Gauk performance of the 1st symphony, but it's in mono and the audio quality is far from satisfactory.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on June 30, 2020, 06:40:11 AM
Quote from: relm1 on June 30, 2020, 05:41:05 AM
Wait a second...

(https://img.discogs.com/yoSOEqRhviypPzDtEMdnxEkkhXk=/fit-in/600x598/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1058270-1188810508.jpeg.jpg)
Yes, I noticed that too:
'Let Us Go Forward Together!'
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 30, 2020, 06:44:23 AM
The below is YT link to the recording in question. As Jeffrey described, it is wonderful.

https://youtu.be/DE6t0E5WCSw


Quote from: Mirror Image on June 30, 2020, 05:49:30 AM
Thanks for the feedback, Jeffrey. Yeah, I wish that older recording from Tjeknavorian was available on CD. I would definitely buy it, but the ASV is all we have. You don't like any of the ballets like Spartacus or Gayane?
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on June 30, 2020, 06:45:11 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 30, 2020, 05:49:30 AM
Thanks for the feedback, Jeffrey. Yeah, I wish that older recording from Tjeknavorian was available on CD. I would definitely buy it, but the ASV is all we have. You don't like any of the ballets like Spartacus or Gayane?
Oh, I like them both John, especially Spartacus. Recently I bought the complete Gayneh, which features the same cover image as my favourite recording of Symphony No.1:
[/img]
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 30, 2020, 06:49:20 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 30, 2020, 06:45:11 AM
Oh, I like them both John, especially Spartacus. Recently I bought the complete Gayneh.

Very nice, Jeffrey. Which recording of Gayane did you buy? I've got Kakhidze and bought the Tjeknavorian yesterday.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on June 30, 2020, 06:50:58 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on June 30, 2020, 06:44:23 AM
The below is YT link to the recording in question. As Jeffrey described, it is wonderful.

https://youtu.be/DE6t0E5WCSw

Thanks again FBK. It has an epic sweep, unlike any other recording, including the composer's own one (which is good).
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on June 30, 2020, 06:51:54 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 30, 2020, 06:49:20 AM
Very nice, Jeffrey. Which recording of Gayane did you buy? I've got Kakhidze and bought the Tjeknavorian yesterday.

The one pictured above John, with Tjeknavorian.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 30, 2020, 06:54:37 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 30, 2020, 06:51:54 AM
The one pictured above John, with Tjeknavorian.

Ah okay. Very nice, Jeffrey. I had to buy a Japanese reissue of that Tjeknavorian recording. I've read some issues with the sound quality in all of the recordings. What do you make of these criticisms? How does the audio quality sound to you?
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 30, 2020, 07:05:20 AM
I have the Valencia Widow/ASV and Gayne/RCA. They are excellent recordings.
As for Gayne, I slightly prefer the U.S.S.R. recording (Kakhidze) of the score expanded in1957 (and 1952).
Still, the Gayne/Rca is excellent as well.

I have read a few complaints about the sound quality of the Gayne/Rca, but the sound is fine and very good.

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 29, 2020, 04:13:31 PM
Cross-posted from the 'Purchases' thread:

A lot of this music will be new to me and some of it will not as I already knew the Piano Concerto, much of Spartacus, a few excerpts from Gayane and perhaps the Violin Concerto. I do believe I have heard the 2nd symphony, but I can't recall much about it. I've come to enjoy his music much in the way a person may enjoy say their favorite ice cream or candy bar --- a little does seem to go a long way and you don't want to overdo it. I do enjoy what I've heard from him and think that Armenian folk influence (amongst other folk influences) really gives his music some earthiness that I find quite appealing. I certainly understand why someone wouldn't enjoy Khachaturian, but despite the misconceived notion of a lack of depth in his music, there is some loveliness and beauty to be found here. That famous Adagio from Spartacus being a case in point. Anyway, I'm looking forward to the discovery (and rediscovery) of this composer's music.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 30, 2020, 07:20:07 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on June 30, 2020, 07:05:20 AM
I have the Valencia Widow/ASV and Gayne/RCA. They are excellent recordings.
As for Gayne, I slightly prefer the U.S.S.R. recording (Kakhidze) of the score expanded in1957 (and 1952).
Still, the Gayne/Rca is excellent as well.

I have read a few complaints about the sound quality of the Gayne/Rca, but the sound is fine and very good.

Thanks for the feedback. Perhaps I'll do a side-by-side comparison of the Kakhidze and Tjeknavorian at some juncture.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 30, 2020, 07:28:31 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 30, 2020, 07:20:07 AM
Thanks for the feedback. Perhaps I'll do a side-by-side comparison of the Kakhidze and Tjeknavorian at some juncture.

I am looking forward to reading your critique. To me the USSR recording maintains wildness and earthiness, as well as the charm of supplemented part in the composition.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 30, 2020, 07:30:19 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on June 30, 2020, 07:28:31 AM
I am looking forward to reading your critique. To me the USSR recording maintains wildness and earthiness, as well as the charm of supplemented part in the composition.

I've read positive/negative criticisms of both performances, so, yeah, it'll be interesting to see which one I prefer in the end.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on June 30, 2020, 07:35:22 AM
As for N0. 3, I like this recording as well as the Chandos recording.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on June 30, 2020, 12:38:25 PM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on June 30, 2020, 07:35:22 AM
As for N0. 3, I like this recording as well as the Chandos recording.
Yes me too. It's difficult to go wrong with Kondrashin.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Roy Bland on June 30, 2020, 05:45:26 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 29, 2020, 10:17:42 PM
Is that a CD or LP?
A CD available here
http://www.foothillrecords.com/details-pages/citadel-ctd/131khacha.html
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on June 30, 2020, 09:35:09 PM
Quote from: Roy Bland on June 30, 2020, 05:45:26 PM
A CD available here
http://www.foothillrecords.com/details-pages/citadel-ctd/131khacha.html
Thank you! An interesting website. Many of the CDs are very inexpensive but I wonder what the shipping to the UK is like! I realise that I have some of their release already including several by Howard Hanson, Robert Ward, Diamond and Harris.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on June 30, 2020, 09:37:17 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 30, 2020, 06:54:37 AM
Ah okay. Very nice, Jeffrey. I had to buy a Japanese reissue of that Tjeknavorian recording. I've read some issues with the sound quality in all of the recordings. What do you make of these criticisms? How does the audio quality sound to you?
I think that mine is the Japanese reissue too John. No problem with sound quality as far as I recall but I'm not listening on a state-of-the-art sound system.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 01, 2020, 05:55:47 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 30, 2020, 09:37:17 PM
I think that mine is the Japanese reissue too John. No problem with sound quality as far as I recall but I'm not listening on a state-of-the-art sound system.

Yeah, I usually can detect any kind of defects in a recording through headphone listening, but it's good to hear you have no issues with the audio quality.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: kyjo on July 01, 2020, 10:55:39 AM
Khachaturian's early Trio for Violin, Clarinet, and Piano is a really fine work that makes me regret that he didn't compose more chamber music:

https://youtu.be/ys1W_Yhygvg
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 01, 2020, 05:04:44 PM
Quote from: kyjo on July 01, 2020, 10:55:39 AM
Khachaturian's early Trio for Violin, Clarinet, and Piano is a really fine work that makes me regret that he didn't compose more chamber music:

https://youtu.be/ys1W_Yhygvg

Very nice, Kyle. Thanks for sharing this --- quite a nice work. When I was looking at Khachaturian's oeuvre, I must've missed this trio. I'd have loved to hear a string quartet from him.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 02, 2020, 06:04:59 AM
I like the complete ballet music of Spartacus. So far I have three recordings, including the Jurowski, Zhuraitis(Bolshoi) and old Bolshoi recordings. They all are excellent and I like all of them very much. The Jurowski set offers the best recording sound, and the performance is clear and thorough. A few people may find it a little mechanical, however. The Zhuraitis set is my favorite. It is vigorous and colorful.
The sound quality of the old Bolshoi recoding is very poor, but the performance is exceptionally good and penetrating, so it is frustrating. Since the recording sound is very poor, probably this set is for completists only.



Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 02, 2020, 06:09:30 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 02, 2020, 06:04:59 AM
I like the complete ballet music of Spartacus. So far I have three recordings, including the Jurowski, Zhuraitis(Bolshoi) and old Bolshoi recordings. They all are excellent and I like all of them very much. The Jurowski set offers the best recording sound, and the performance is clear and thorough. A few people may find it a little mechanical, however. The Zhuraitis set is my favorite. It is vigorous and colorful.
The sound quality of the old Bolshoi recoding is very poor, but the performance is exceptionally good and penetrating, so it is frustrating. Since the recording sound is very poor, probably this set is for completists only.

I'm quite happy with the Jurowski on Capriccio, but I do wish there was a bit more excitement in the performance. It would've been nice to have a recording of the complete ballet from Tjeknavorian.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 02, 2020, 06:31:08 AM
I feel exactly the same.

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 02, 2020, 06:09:30 AM
I do wish there was a bit more excitement in the performance.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: kyjo on July 02, 2020, 08:15:59 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 01, 2020, 05:04:44 PM
Very nice, Kyle. Thanks for sharing this --- quite a nice work. When I was looking at Khachaturian's oeuvre, I must've missed his composed this trio. I'd have loved to hear a string quartet from him.

You're welcome, John. I agree - a Khachaturian string quartet or two would've been very nice considering how well he wrote for string instruments.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 02, 2020, 09:35:07 AM
Let me just say that the Fire movement from Khachaturian's Gayane is smoldering. Wow!
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 02, 2020, 10:42:58 AM
Cross-posted from the 'Listening' thread -

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 02, 2020, 10:38:17 AM
Symphony No. 2 in E minor, "The Bell"

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/bqoAAOSwIABcVBON/s-l640.jpg)

Damn! I had forgot just how awesome this symphony is --- scorching performance, too.

I have to say that I never heard such a smoking performance of this symphony as this one from Tjeknavorian.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 02, 2020, 01:30:12 PM
This is such a cool photo:

(https://external-preview.redd.it/OKML9UlxudPhWJS05ll4J67PgRbpHOTgTNT-fszXPkM.jpg?auto=webp&s=4c077108089b5a70c382a488e1cd0983f97ef1ce)

I wonder if this was before/after their denouncements? I'll have to find a year for the photo.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 02, 2020, 01:45:41 PM
Quote from: kyjo on July 02, 2020, 08:15:59 AM
You're welcome, John. I agree - a Khachaturian string quartet or two would've been very nice considering how well he wrote for string instruments.

Speaking of Khachaturian's chamber music, North Star (Karlo) alerted me to this new release:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODcxNTY4NS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NzU5MDU2ODd9)

This will be a must-buy once it's released here in the US. I've never seen all of his chamber works under one roof like this.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on July 02, 2020, 02:06:47 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 02, 2020, 01:30:12 PM
This is such a cool photo:

(https://external-preview.redd.it/OKML9UlxudPhWJS05ll4J67PgRbpHOTgTNT-fszXPkM.jpg?auto=webp&s=4c077108089b5a70c382a488e1cd0983f97ef1ce)

I wonder if this was before/after their denouncements? I'll have to find a year for the photo.
One source says that it is from 1940, so before the Zhdanov denouncement - they all look quite cheerful!
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 02, 2020, 02:11:27 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 02, 2020, 02:06:47 PM
One source says that it is from 1940, so before the Zhdanov denouncement - they all look quite cheerful!

Thanks, Jeffrey. They do look rather cheerful I must say. I suspect that Prokofiev is the odd man out here. I remember reading somewhere that he thought very little of Shostakovich and didn't consider him a 'real' composer. I'm sure he thought even less of Khachaturian. ::)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on July 02, 2020, 02:31:21 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 02, 2020, 02:11:27 PM
Thanks, Jeffrey. They do look rather cheerful I must say. I suspect that Prokofiev is the odd man out here. I remember reading somewhere that he thought very little of Shostakovich and didn't consider him a 'real' composer. I'm sure he thought even less of Khachaturian. ::)
Yes, although I think that's a comment on Prokofiev rather than the others! Prokofiev, despite his acerbic wit and intolerance, remained remarkably loyal to his friend Miaskovsky:
(//)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 02, 2020, 04:08:31 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 02, 2020, 02:31:21 PM
Yes, although I think that's a comment on Prokofiev rather than the others! Prokofiev, despite his acerbic wit and intolerance, remained remarkably loyal to his friend Miaskovsky:
(//)

Oh yes. Myaskovsky was, of course, Prokofiev's fellow classmate. They took to each other early on as both composers had quite the disdain for their teacher Lyadov.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on July 02, 2020, 05:51:34 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 02, 2020, 09:35:07 AM
Let me just say that the Fire movement from Khachaturian's Gayane is smoldering. Wow!

The whole ballet is surely one of the catchiest works I've ever heard, and I've heard many! Anyone who loves this composer should hear this work in its entirely, it's absolutely fantastic. There is a movement called Love Duet or Love Scene if my memory serves. What a most ardent and romantic tune!! It will be on your head for some days.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 02, 2020, 05:56:25 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on July 02, 2020, 05:51:34 PM
The whole ballet is surely one of the catchiest works I've ever heard, and I've heard many! Anyone who loves this composer should hear this work in its entirely, it's absolutely fantastic. There is a movement called Love Duet or Love Scene if my memory serves. What a most ardent and romantic tune!! It will be on your head for some days.

Yes, I've certainly enjoyed everything I've heard so far. He really was a remarkable composer. I love the color, exoticism, and sheer rhythmic vitality that his music projects. In a world gone crazier by the hour, Khachaturian hits me hard and gives me that much needed jolt I need to let me know that everything will be okay. Better times are ahead.

On a related note, have you or anyone else seen this documentary?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51rKN6wYhsL.jpg)

It's in my queue and I'm wondering whether I should pull the trigger or not as I do find his own bio to be quite interesting.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 02, 2020, 06:01:08 PM
While I like the entire ballet music, I feel that good/better pieces are not included in the Gayane, as well as Spartacus, "Suite."


FYI, two videos of entire ballet of Gayane on YT.

https://youtu.be/s9jbn27wIew

https://youtu.be/sR5imaQWwrQ

Plus, Spartacus

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD403A68382B496A4







Quote from: Symphonic Addict on July 02, 2020, 05:51:34 PM
The whole ballet is surely one of the catchiest works I've ever heard, and I've heard many! Anyone who loves this composer should hear this work in its entirely, it's absolutely fantastic. There is a movement called Love Duet or Love Scene if my memory serves. What a most ardent and romantic tune!! It will be on your head for some days.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 02, 2020, 06:23:55 PM
I don't know if this is the same or different, but there is a Biographical video of K on YT.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB88B9BFAAEF89459


Quote from: Mirror Image on July 02, 2020, 05:56:25 PM
Yes, I've certainly enjoyed everything I've heard so far. He really was a remarkable composer. I love the color, exoticism, and sheer rhythmic vitality that his music projects. In a world gone crazier by the hour, Khachaturian hits me hard and gives me that much needed jolt I need to let me know that everything will be okay. Better times are ahead.

On a related note, have you or anyone else seen this documentary?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51rKN6wYhsL.jpg)

It's in my queue and I'm wondering whether I should pull the trigger or not as I do find his own bio to be quite interesting.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 02, 2020, 06:49:34 PM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 02, 2020, 06:23:55 PM
I don't know if this is the same or different, but there is a Biographical video of K on YT.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB88B9BFAAEF89459

Ah yes, thanks for the link. I've seen this video on YouTube, but I'm not sure if it's the same documentary. (It probably is more than likely.)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: kyjo on July 03, 2020, 06:38:46 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 02, 2020, 01:45:41 PM
Speaking of Khachaturian's chamber music, North Star (Karlo) alerted me to this new release:

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODcxNTY4NS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NzU5MDU2ODd9)

This will be a must-buy once it's released here in the US. I've never seen all of his chamber works under one roof like this.

Very cool! Thanks for the heads up, John. Found it on Spotify.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 03, 2020, 06:42:07 AM
Quote from: kyjo on July 03, 2020, 06:38:46 AM
Very cool! Thanks for the heads up, John. Found it on Spotify.

Yes, indeed. Let me know what you think of it whenever you get the chance.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 03, 2020, 11:16:01 AM
I rather enjoyed the Symphony No. 2 in E minor, 'The Bell' yesterday. I listened to it twice. Tjeknavorian's performance was also top-drawer. I believe that Tjeknavorian understands Khachaturian's music rather well. Of course, the Armenian Philharmonic play this music with the right amount of intensity and drive. I'm still waiting for a younger conductor to record a series on this composer. It would be awesome if Kirill Karabits would record more Khachaturian. So far, he's recorded excerpts from Gayane and Spartacus on the Onyx label (w/ the Bournemouth SO, which I believe was this conductor's debut recording with them if I'm not mistaken).
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Christo on July 03, 2020, 11:26:43 AM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on July 02, 2020, 05:51:34 PM
The whole ballet is surely one of the catchiest works I've ever heard, and I've heard many! Anyone who loves this composer should hear this work in its entirely, it's absolutely fantastic. There is a movement called Love Duet or Love Scene if my memory serves. What a most ardent and romantic tune!! It will be on your head for some days.
+1
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 03, 2020, 05:13:33 PM
Cross-posted from the 'Listening' thread -

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 03, 2020, 05:11:39 PM
First-Listen Fridays -

Gayane

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81qaC0JI-%2BL._SL1089_.jpg)

WOW!!! WOW!!! I'm just speechless...
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 03, 2020, 06:51:08 PM
Have been listening Rampal's Flute Concerto for years. I prefer the flute version of concerto to the original violin concerto, and I like the Rampal set more than the recordings by Pahud, Galway, etc. The orchestra led by Jean Martinon offers a heated performance. It seems to me that the melody sounds more lively, dancing and flowing with flute than violin. Just my feeling though.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 03, 2020, 07:16:55 PM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 03, 2020, 06:51:08 PM
Have been listening Rampal's Flute Concerto for years. I prefer the flute version of concerto to the original violin concerto, and I like the Rampal set more than the recordings by Pahud, Galway, etc. The orchestra led by Jean Martinon offers a heated performance. It seems to me that the melody sounds more lively, dancing and flowing with flute than violin. Just my feeling though.

I'm a bit ambivalent towards the Flute Concerto. I think it's an interesting alternative to the Violin Concerto, but, for me, it'll never replace the original. Rampal, of course, wanted Khachaturian to write him an original work, but politely declined the offer and suggested he arrange his Violin Concerto for flute. So while I do respect the work Rampal did, Khachaturian's heart isn't in the work of course as it was the violin that the composer had intended.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 04, 2020, 07:10:47 AM
I don't know why I prefer the flute version. Again, it sounds spontaneous and flowing to me. Plus, the orchestra in this recording is wonderful- candescent performance. I think that the albums of Violin concerto by Simonyan and Pine are excellent. As for authenticity in terms of the composer's intended aestheticism, certainly the Violin concerto is more authentic. Come to think of it, I similarly prefer the Bach's transcribed works of Vivaldi and others to the original works. As for the entire Bach keyboard works, however, I largely prefer harpsichord to piano (or guitar). Anyway, I will keep listening both the violin and flute concertos. I hope nobody will make a trumpet or organ version that will sound good to me!

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 03, 2020, 07:16:55 PM
I'm a bit ambivalent towards the Flute Concerto. I think it's an interesting alternative to the Violin Concerto, but, for me, it'll never replace the original. Rampal, of course, wanted Khachaturian to write him an original work, but politely declined the offer and suggested he arrange his Violin Concerto for flute. So while I do respect the work Rampal did, Khachaturian's heart isn't in the work of course as it was the violin that the composer had intended.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 04, 2020, 07:19:50 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 04, 2020, 07:10:47 AM
I don't know why I prefer the flute version. Again, it sounds spontaneous and flowing to me. Plus, the orchestra in this recording is wonderful- candescent performance. I think that the albums of Violin concerto by Simonyan and Pine are excellent. As for authenticity in terms of the composer's intended aestheticism, certainly the Violin concerto is more authentic. Come to think of it, I similarly prefer the Bach's transcribed works of Vivaldi and others to the original works. As for the entire Bach keyboard works, however, I largely prefer harpsichord to piano (or guitar). Anyway, I will keep listening both the violin and flute concertos. I hope nobody will make a trumpet or organ version that will sound good to me!

Honestly, I don't really associate the flute with Khachaturian, although I know he's written some great parts for the instrument throughout his works. If there was one woodwind instrument I thought would hold up well to his writing style, it would be the clarinet. The clarinet, out of all the woodwind instruments, has a certain 'attitude' to it and this character suits Khachaturian, IMHO. I'd love to have heard a Trumpet Concerto from his as well.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 04, 2020, 02:17:22 PM
Compositional Spotlight:

Gayane

(https://p2.liveauctioneers.com/394/40460/17387658_1_l.jpg)(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/headshot-portrait-of-russian-composer-aram-khachaturian-picture-id3205572?k=6&m=3205572&s=612x612&w=0&h=LL8CQc376u779G_XSj9UBF8IE90eHq3RTZ3o-vSyp2k=)

Aram Khachaturian's ballet Gayane, variously spelled "Gayne," "Gayaneh," and "Gayané," had its premiere at the Kirov Ballet on December 9, 1942, in wartime. The ballet's story concerned a young woman named Gayane living on a collective farm of which her father is the chairman. Gayane helps entrap a spy bent on stealing Soviet geological secrets. That clunker of a Communist plot may explain why recordings of the entire ballet have been hard to find in recent decades, even though Gayane spawned one of the last of the great orchestral warhorses, the Sabre Dance. Originally part of a suite of ethnic dances in the ballet's second act, the Sabre Dance is an irresistible piece of fun that's known and loved far beyond the confines of classical music fandom. Its appeal partly derives from its combination of a highly dissonant element, an alternation between major and minor sevenths with full-blown, hell-for-leather, stomp-your-feet forward motion.

The neglect of the rest of Khachaturian's music is a shame, for the ballet has many noteworthy moments of folkloric flavor beyond the Sabre Dance. The story resolves itself in praise for the friendship among the various peoples of the Soviet Union, a development that gave the Georgian-born and Armenian-begotten Khachaturian plenty of room to explore the rhythms and textures of Central Asian folk music. Two of the other dances in the Act II set evokes a group much in the news, the Kurds, and in general Gayane did much to inspire a folkloristic strain in postwar Soviet music even as its composer suffered condemnation at the hands of Stalinist cultural thugs. Gayane, whose music Khachaturian created for Russian ballerina Nina Anisimova, enjoyed several revivals in the years after its composition, and each time Khachaturian tinkered with the score. One indication of the music's riches and its popularity in its own day is that the composer extracted three orchestral suites from the music during and after the ballet's composition.

[Article taken from All Music Guide]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've really become rather smitten with this ballet. I'm planning on revisiting it again tomorrow. What really impressed me is the fact that Khachaturian can cover so many emotions in a single work --- it's almost like a lifetime's worth of experience all crammed into one work. There's joyful exuberance, sadness, timeless beauty, fiery passion, etc. I'll be honest and say that in the past I've written Khachaturian off as a some kind of cheap thrill composer and nothing more, but, as time has progressed, one begins to see the error in that kind of snap judgement, which I know we're all guilty of. Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy those 'highlights' from the ballets and so forth, but I didn't take a deeper listen into what the complete ballets had to offer vs. mere highlights. He's slowly becoming one of my favorites, but I still have a long way to go before I can really access the entire scope of his oeuvre and compositional style.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 04, 2020, 06:53:48 PM
+1 🔥🔥🔥

There is cuteness in his music.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 04, 2020, 08:19:47 PM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 04, 2020, 06:53:48 PM
+1 🔥🔥🔥

There is cuteness in his music.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'cuteness' but I guess it's complimentary. :-\
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on July 05, 2020, 01:11:08 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 02, 2020, 05:56:25 PM
On a related note, have you or anyone else seen this documentary?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51rKN6wYhsL.jpg)

It's in my queue and I'm wondering whether I should pull the trigger or not as I do find his own bio to be quite interesting.

No, I haven't, John, but I know that this kind of material is very enlightening.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on July 05, 2020, 01:12:17 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 04, 2020, 02:17:22 PM
Compositional Spotlight:

Gayane

(https://p2.liveauctioneers.com/394/40460/17387658_1_l.jpg)(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/headshot-portrait-of-russian-composer-aram-khachaturian-picture-id3205572?k=6&m=3205572&s=612x612&w=0&h=LL8CQc376u779G_XSj9UBF8IE90eHq3RTZ3o-vSyp2k=)

Aram Khachaturian's ballet Gayane, variously spelled "Gayne," "Gayaneh," and "Gayané," had its premiere at the Kirov Ballet on December 9, 1942, in wartime. The ballet's story concerned a young woman named Gayane living on a collective farm of which her father is the chairman. Gayane helps entrap a spy bent on stealing Soviet geological secrets. That clunker of a Communist plot may explain why recordings of the entire ballet have been hard to find in recent decades, even though Gayane spawned one of the last of the great orchestral warhorses, the Sabre Dance. Originally part of a suite of ethnic dances in the ballet's second act, the Sabre Dance is an irresistible piece of fun that's known and loved far beyond the confines of classical music fandom. Its appeal partly derives from its combination of a highly dissonant element, an alternation between major and minor sevenths with full-blown, hell-for-leather, stomp-your-feet forward motion.

The neglect of the rest of Khachaturian's music is a shame, for the ballet has many noteworthy moments of folkloric flavor beyond the Sabre Dance. The story resolves itself in praise for the friendship among the various peoples of the Soviet Union, a development that gave the Georgian-born and Armenian-begotten Khachaturian plenty of room to explore the rhythms and textures of Central Asian folk music. Two of the other dances in the Act II set evokes a group much in the news, the Kurds, and in general Gayane did much to inspire a folkloristic strain in postwar Soviet music even as its composer suffered condemnation at the hands of Stalinist cultural thugs. Gayane, whose music Khachaturian created for Russian ballerina Nina Anisimova, enjoyed several revivals in the years after its composition, and each time Khachaturian tinkered with the score. One indication of the music's riches and its popularity in its own day is that the composer extracted three orchestral suites from the music during and after the ballet's composition.

[Article taken from All Music Guide]

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I've really become rather smitten with this ballet. I'm planning on revisiting it again tomorrow. What really impressed me is the fact that Khachaturian can cover so many emotions in a single work --- it's almost like a lifetime's worth of experience all crammed into one work. There's joyful exuberance, sadness, timeless beauty, fiery passion, etc. I'll be honest and say that in the past I've written Khachaturian off as a some kind of cheap thrill composer and nothing more, but, as time has progressed, one begins to see the error in that kind of snap judgement, which I know we're all guilty of. Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy those 'highlights' from the ballets and so forth, but I didn't take a deeper listen into what the complete ballets had to offer vs. mere highlights. He's slowly becoming one of my favorites, but I still have a long way to go before I can really access the entire scope of his oeuvre and compositional style.

Glad to see you fell in love with Gayaneh, John. It really is a masterpiece IMO.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 05, 2020, 01:15:26 PM
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on July 05, 2020, 01:11:08 PM
No, I haven't, John, but I know that this kind of material is very enlightening.

I sure hope so! I love composer documentaries and, if anything, I'll find out something that I haven't already read about.

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on July 05, 2020, 01:12:17 PM
Glad to see you fell in love with Gayaneh, John. It really is a masterpiece IMO.

It sure is! An astonishing ballet.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Maestro267 on July 06, 2020, 05:44:34 AM
How easy is the plot to follow? And from a musical perspective, how much of Gay(a)ne(h) is plot advancement and actual drama vs mere divertissement?

How much "depth" is there to this score vs. his other orchestral works. I fully realize I'm currently judging this with little evidence, but I have the assumption that Khachaturian's ballets are a bit like Shostakovich's Golden Age, ie. banal, with no depth or profundity to them. I've given up on that score, I'll stick to the symphonies and concertos for Shostakovich. To be clear, I want to be wrong on this front. I want to like these ballets. A ballet score by someone with the orchestrational genius of these Soviet composers should be right up my street, but aside from Prokofiev, the master of Soviet ballet, nothing else has reached the same glorious heights.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 06, 2020, 06:22:00 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on July 06, 2020, 05:44:34 AM
How easy is the plot to follow? And from a musical perspective, how much of Gay(a)ne(h) is plot advancement and actual drama vs mere divertissement?

How much "depth" is there to this score vs. his other orchestral works. I fully realize I'm currently judging this with little evidence, but I have the assumption that Khachaturian's ballets are a bit like Shostakovich's Golden Age, ie. banal, with no depth or profundity to them. I've given up on that score, I'll stick to the symphonies and concertos for Shostakovich. To be clear, I want to be wrong on this front. I want to like these ballets. A ballet score by someone with the orchestrational genius of these Soviet composers should be right up my street, but aside from Prokofiev, the master of Soviet ballet, nothing else has reached the same glorious heights.

To be honest with you, a ballet's 'plot' is never of much importance or a concern for mine. It's the music that tells the tale, IMHO. There is considerable depth in Khachaturian's Gayane, but if you're expecting Shostakovich-like pathos, then you're really barking up the wrong tree. There are many gorgeous moments in this ballet that took me aback and that had me questioning my opinion on Khachaturian. The end result is simple: I was wrong about his music and I'm glad I was. I disagree with your assessment of Shostakovich's The Golden Age lacking depth. One listen to that incredible Adagio from the ballet should change your mind. My problem with the Shostakovich is not its occasional lapses in banality, but the sheer length of the ballet. I have to say with the Khachaturian, however, I felt there were no such moments where I thought that the ballet would've been better if it was trimmed down by about 30 minutes. I say listen to Gayane with an open-mind and forget everything you know or thought you knew about the composer and listen to it on its own terms. You might be surprised by what you hear. Also, please try and track down the Tjeknavorian recording. That's the one to hear.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 06, 2020, 06:42:35 AM
I like the deceptively-simple music of Gaynne while I like his flamboyant and sumptuous symphonies as well. As for the plot, it is just a communist propaganda- the  civilized and moral Russians educating uncivilized Armenians. That's why the ballet is less popular than the Spartacus in spite of the better composition.

Thank you for your opinion. Skeptical opinions are important and productive opinions.


Quote from: Maestro267 on July 06, 2020, 05:44:34 AM
How easy is the plot to follow? And from a musical perspective, how much of Gay(a)ne(h) is plot advancement and actual drama vs mere divertissement?

How much "depth" is there to this score vs. his other orchestral works. I fully realize I'm currently judging this with little evidence, but I have the assumption that Khachaturian's ballets are a bit like Shostakovich's Golden Age, ie. banal, with no depth or profundity to them. I've given up on that score, I'll stick to the symphonies and concertos for Shostakovich. To be clear, I want to be wrong on this front. I want to like these ballets. A ballet score by someone with the orchestrational genius of these Soviet composers should be right up my street, but aside from Prokofiev, the master of Soviet ballet, nothing else has reached the same glorious heights.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: kyjo on July 06, 2020, 08:44:43 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on July 06, 2020, 05:44:34 AM
How much "depth" is there to this score vs. his other orchestral works. I fully realize I'm currently judging this with little evidence, but I have the assumption that Khachaturian's ballets are a bit like Shostakovich's Golden Age, ie. banal, with no depth or profundity to them. I've given up on that score, I'll stick to the symphonies and concertos for Shostakovich. To be clear, I want to be wrong on this front. I want to like these ballets. A ballet score by someone with the orchestrational genius of these Soviet composers should be right up my street, but aside from Prokofiev, the master of Soviet ballet, nothing else has reached the same glorious heights.

Khachaturian and Shostakovich were two very different composers. Khachaturian was deeply influenced by Armenian folk music - especially in his ballets - and used it to color his music with a bright, earthy feel that generally doesn't try to aim at profundity. Shostakovich, on the other hand, was a more "abstract", "serious" composer who saw himself as working in the symphonic tradition of Beethoven, Mahler, etc. His music also reflects the anxiety and uneasiness of his time and place more so than does Khachaturian's. That doesn't mean one composer is better than the other, just that they had two very different approaches to composition. That said, probably the closest Khachaturian got to Shostakovich in seriousness and ambition is in his 2nd Symphony, which IMO can stand comparison with the finest symphonies of Prokofiev and Shostakovich. So, if you're still not convinced that Khachaturian's music can have depth, give the 2nd Symphony a try! :)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Maestro267 on July 06, 2020, 09:10:35 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 06, 2020, 06:22:00 AM
To be honest with you, a ballet's 'plot' is never of much importance or a concern for mine. It's the music that tells the tale, IMHO.

It is for me. I have to know exactly what the music represents to gain an understanding of the music. If I may use another composer's ballet as an example...I feel you could cut the vast majority of Act 3 of Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty and you'd still have the same plot. 50 minutes of music and all it basically says is "They got married and lived happily ever after". I lose attention there. I want dramatic music that advances the story.

QuoteI disagree with your assessment of Shostakovich's The Golden Age lacking depth. One listen to that incredible Adagio from the ballet should change your mind. My problem with the Shostakovich is not its occasional lapses in banality, but the sheer length of the ballet.

That Adagio is about 10 minutes out of the ballet's total of around 150. As you pointed out in the following sentence. It's little enough to say the ballet lacks in depth compared to other scores.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 06, 2020, 10:08:29 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on July 06, 2020, 09:10:35 AM


It is for me. I have to know exactly what the music represents to gain an understanding of the music. If I may use another composer's ballet as an example...I feel you could cut the vast majority of Act 3 of Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty and you'd still have the same plot. 50 minutes of music and all it basically says is "They got married and lived happily ever after". I lose attention there. I want dramatic music that advances the story.

That Adagio is about 10 minutes out of the ballet's total of around 150. As you pointed out in the following sentence. It's little enough to say the ballet lacks in depth compared to other scores.

So here's a scenario for you: what if say Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet were written on purely non-programmatic terms, would you view the work any differently? Could you listen to it as an abstract piece of music?
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 06, 2020, 11:59:48 AM
Quote from: kyjo on July 06, 2020, 08:44:43 AM
Khachaturian and Shostakovich were two very different composers. Khachaturian was deeply influenced by Armenian folk music - especially in his ballets - and used it to color his music with a bright, earthy feel that generally doesn't try to aim at profundity. Shostakovich, on the other hand, was a more "abstract", "serious" composer who saw himself as working in the symphonic tradition of Beethoven, Mahler, etc. His music also reflects the anxiety and uneasiness of his time and place more so than does Khachaturian's. That doesn't mean one composer is better than the other, just that they had two very different approaches to composition. That said, probably the closest Khachaturian got to Shostakovich in seriousness and ambition is in his 2nd Symphony, which IMO can stand comparison with the finest symphonies of Prokofiev and Shostakovich. So, if you're still not convinced that Khachaturian's music can have depth, give the 2nd Symphony a try! :)

QFT. 8) I agree that it is nonsensical to approach Khachaturian with the mindset of wanting to hear dark, brooding Russian music. Sorry, but this isn't this composer's bag, but this isn't to say that his music lacked 'depth' because this wasn't the case at all. It's just as you mentioned, Kyle, his compositional style is different and, also, he really wasn't a 'Russian' composer anyway as he felt his was a voice crying out for the Armenian people. It might be a good idea if Maestro267 read more about Khachaturian. I believe one of the biggest crises in his compositional career was being denounced by the Soviet musical establishment as I do strongly feel that he felt he was doing good work and then comes this slap in the face. Must have crushed him. I guess I'll find out more about this in the documentary on the composer's life I have coming. :)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 06, 2020, 02:18:35 PM
Reminds me of the philosophers' debates I read years ago on (hypothetically) two identical paintings created by two artists with different intentions. They were divided on whether the two paintings are artistically the same or not.


Quote from: Mirror Image on July 06, 2020, 10:08:29 AM
So here's a scenario for you: what if say Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet were written on purely non-programmatic terms, would you view the work any differently? Could you listen to it as an abstract piece of music?
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 06, 2020, 02:27:12 PM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 06, 2020, 02:18:35 PM
Reminds me of the philosophers' debates I read years ago on (hypothetically) two identical paintings created by two artists with different intentions. They were divided on whether the two paintings are artistically the same or not.

Hmmm...food for thought.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 06, 2020, 02:31:57 PM
The cup noodle I microwave seems to taste different every week.

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 06, 2020, 02:27:12 PM
Hmmm...food for thought.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vers la flamme on July 06, 2020, 03:47:31 PM
I've heard nothing but Gayaneh Suite No.1 & Symphony No.2, but I'm enjoying them a bit lately. Where to from here?
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 06, 2020, 04:17:43 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on July 06, 2020, 03:47:31 PM
I've heard nothing but Gayaneh Suite No.1 & Symphony No.2, but I'm enjoying them a bit lately. Where to from here?

The complete Gayane (the Tjeknavorian recording is a must hear) and then perhaps one of the concerti.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Christo on July 06, 2020, 10:56:24 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on July 06, 2020, 03:47:31 PM
I've heard nothing but Gayaneh Suite No.1 & Symphony No.2, but I'm enjoying them a bit lately. Where to from here?
I would start with the violin concerto, the most infectious of the three IMO.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on July 07, 2020, 03:33:38 AM
I guess that I had to jump on the Khachaturian bandwagon sooner or later with you lot here  8).
Currently listening to Symphony No.2 (Temirkanov) - a most interesting performance from 1970 (live) - obviously it's not the sonic-spectacular of Jarvi's recording for example but it is deeply felt and a convincing interpretation, featuring some unusually lyrical sections, especially in the opening movement. The excitement builds up cumulatively and I have been gripped throughout.
(//)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 07, 2020, 05:42:41 AM
As for the No.2, this is my routine album nowadays. Conducted by K himself and substantially different from the Jarvi set. I will check the Termirkanov recording recommended by Jeffrey.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on July 07, 2020, 06:48:49 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 07, 2020, 05:42:41 AM
As for the No.2, this is my routine album nowadays. Conducted by K himself and substantially different from the Jarvi set. I will check the Termirkanov recording recommended by Jeffrey.
That's a fine performance as well as is his Decca recording with the VPO.
Here is a review of the Temirkanov box:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2008/June08/Temirkanov_8818.htm
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 07, 2020, 06:55:04 AM
Good to see some love for the 2nd symphony. What a fantastic work!
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 07, 2020, 11:05:41 AM
Quote
Quote from: Maestro267 on July 06, 2020, 09:10:35 AMIt is for me. I have to know exactly what the music represents to gain an understanding of the music. If I may use another composer's ballet as an example...I feel you could cut the vast majority of Act 3 of Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty and you'd still have the same plot. 50 minutes of music and all it basically says is "They got married and lived happily ever after". I lose attention there. I want dramatic music that advances the story.

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 06, 2020, 10:08:29 AM
So here's a scenario for you: what if say Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet were written on purely non-programmatic terms, would you view the work any differently? Could you listen to it as an abstract piece of music?

I guess you're still thinking about the questions? :-\
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: kyjo on July 07, 2020, 11:42:54 AM
Quote from: Christo on July 06, 2020, 10:56:24 PM
I would start with the violin concerto, the most infectious of the three IMO.

+1 It's one of my all-time favorite violin concerti. I enjoy the Piano Concerto very much as well, especially its sinuous slow movement with its delightfully weird part for flexatone. I struggle a bit more with the Cello Concerto, a darker work which seems to me to lack a bit of the lyrical "heart" and engaging color that I'm used to from Khachaturian. I'm still unfamiliar with the three Concerto-Rhapsodies...
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 07, 2020, 12:08:28 PM
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 06, 2020, 10:08:29 AM
So here's a scenario for you: what if say Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet were written on purely non-programmatic terms, would you view the work any differently? Could you listen to it as an abstract piece of music?


I think this is a good question.
A materialist (M) would maintain that R&J would remain as a same work, thereby remain good (or bad), regardless it was written for ballet music or non-thematic music. M believes that physical entities in materialist conditions (existing sound, color, shape) are the art works. An idealist (D) would assume that art work is an intended idea, and a physical work is merely an executed "presentation" of an idea/art work. Consequently, D may say that R&J is bad as a ballet music but good as a non-thematic music. For a more extreme example, M would consider that Crime and Punishment in the original Russian text is more legitimate work to English speaking people than is C&P in a translated English text to the latter. In contrast, D would maintain that the English copy is more relevant work than the original Russian text to the English speaking people since the former better conveys the idea.
In reality, most art lovers are near the center on the continuum between the two extremes. We listen music, form opinion about it, and it may influence about our philosophy of music, rather than forming philosophy first and making opinion about music works subsequently.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 07, 2020, 12:30:37 PM
+1

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 06, 2020, 04:17:43 PM
The complete Gayane (the Tjeknavorian recording is a must hear) and then perhaps one of the concerti.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 07, 2020, 12:35:21 PM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 07, 2020, 12:08:28 PM

I think this is a good question.
A materialist (M) would maintain that R&J would remain as a same work, thereby remain good (or bad), regardless it was written for ballet music or non-thematic music. M believes that physical entities in materialist conditions (existing sound, color, shape) are the art works. An idealist (D) would assume that art work is an intended idea, and a physical work is merely an executed "presentation" of an idea/art work. Consequently, D may say that R&J is bad as a ballet music but good as a non-thematic music. For a more extreme example, M would consider that Crime and Punishment in the original Russian text is more legitimate work to English speaking people than is C&P in a translated English text to the latter. In contrast, D would maintain that the English copy is more relevant work than the original Russian text to the English speaking people since the former better conveys the idea.
In reality, most art lovers are near the center on the continuum between the two extremes. We listen music, form opinion about it, and it may influence about our philosophy of music, rather than forming philosophy first and making opinion about music works subsequently.

I think, ultimately, what it boils down to is some people have their minds wrapped up in everything but the music. The music doesn't have to have a program to be enjoyed and if does have a program, then it can still be enjoyed on purely musical terms. I think anyone who says they can't listen to a ballet without knowing the plot or what the music 'represents' is actually doing a disservice to the music because as I've stated many times if a piece of music is good enough to stand on its own, then it should be able to be enjoyed.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 08, 2020, 06:32:06 AM
Though it is not a famous work, the Dance Suite is one of my favorite K compositions. The music sounds like an extension of Gayene with folkish melodies based on the Turkish, Western and Slavic scales. I know only two CD sets (Tjeknavorian/ASV/Alto and Anichanov/Naxos) and a LP record (Ginastera). They all sound wonderful, but arguably the Ginastera record may offer the best performance followed by the Naxos date. The Tjeknavorian set is very good with good sound quality as well. It is a little more relaxed. Hope someone will issue a new recording of the Dance Suite (as well as the full-Gayene) in the near future.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on July 08, 2020, 06:42:04 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 08, 2020, 06:32:06 AM
Though it is not a famous work, the Dance Suite is one of my favorite K compositions. The music sounds like an extension of Gayene with folkish melodies based on the Turkish, Western and Slavic scales. I know only two CD sets (Tjeknavorian/ASV/Alto and Anichanov/Naxos) and a LP record (Ginastera). They all sound wonderful, but arguably the Ginastera record may offer the best performance followed by the Naxos date. The Tjeknavorian set is very good with good sound quality as well. It is a little more relaxed. Hope someone will issue a new recording of the Dance Suite (as well as the full-Gayene) in the near future.
I don't know the Dance Suite at all. Must look out for it.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 08, 2020, 06:49:15 AM
Yes please!
I am not sure if you would like it.....
It is not sophisticated or magnificent like his Symphonies.
Five pieces with folkish themes with tasteful orchestration.

The pic of Naxos date is added.


Quote from: vandermolen on July 08, 2020, 06:42:04 AM
I don't know the Dance Suite at all. Must look out for it.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 08, 2020, 07:05:08 AM
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 08, 2020, 06:32:06 AM
Though it is not a famous work, the Dance Suite is one of my favorite K compositions. The music sounds like an extension of Gayene with folkish melodies based on the Turkish, Western and Slavic scales. I know only two CD sets (Tjeknavorian/ASV/Alto and Anichanov/Naxos) and a LP record (Ginastera). They all sound wonderful, but arguably the Ginastera record may offer the best performance followed by the Naxos date. The Tjeknavorian set is very good with good sound quality as well. It is a little more relaxed. Hope someone will issue a new recording of the Dance Suite (as well as the full-Gayene) in the near future.

Ah yes, the Dance Suite is a good piece. It has that characteristic Khachaturian folk-like sound to it. Obviously, it's not a revelation or a work that will turn the musical establishment on its head, but it's good fun nevertheless. The only recording I know is the Tjeknavorian.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 08, 2020, 09:14:52 AM
Good album with the solid Piano Concerto, another favorite of mine, as well as the excellent Dance Suite.


Quote from: Mirror Image on July 08, 2020, 07:05:08 AM
Ah yes, the Dance Suite is a good piece. It has that characteristic Khachaturian folk-like sound to it. Obviously, it's not a revelation or a work that will turn the musical establishment on its head, but it's good fun nevertheless. The only recording I know is the Tjeknavorian.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 13, 2020, 04:33:05 AM
Two old recordings of the piano concerto. The Katz/Boult date could possibly be my favorite PC recording. The tempo is a little slow, but it doesn't sound slow. The performance is picturesque and it presents a mystical, almost-sorcerous atmosphere. Though it was recorded in the mid-50s, it is stereo and the sound quality is very good. The Katin/Rignold set does not have the opulence of the Katz album. But the performance offers a simple, harmonious elegance reminiscent of a Zen-Buddhist garden. The both albums are wonderful.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: relm1 on July 13, 2020, 06:09:14 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 13, 2020, 04:33:05 AM
Two old recordings of the piano concerto. The Katz/Boult date could possibly be my favorite PC recording. The tempo is a little slow, but it doesn't sound slow. The performance is picturesque and it presents a mystical, almost-sorcerous atmosphere. Though it was recorded in the mid-50s, it is stereo and the sound quality is very good. The Katin/Rignold set does not have the opulence of the Katz album. But the performance offers a simple, harmonious elegance reminiscent of a Zen-Buddhist garden. The both albums are wonderful.

Fascinating.  I really love Boult when he ventures away from English repertoire.  His Rachmaninoff Symphony No. 2 is excellent.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on July 13, 2020, 06:54:34 AM
Quote from: relm1 on July 13, 2020, 06:09:14 AM
Fascinating.  I really love Boult when he ventures away from English repertoire.  His Rachmaninoff Symphony No. 2 is excellent.
I agree. I also like his Rachmaninov Symphony No.3, Shostakovich Symphony No.6, Sibelius Tone Poems and Schubert's 'Unfinished Symphony'.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 13, 2020, 07:07:16 AM
Thank you Gents. I need to check them out. I like his Hindemith recording as well.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 18, 2020, 07:10:00 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 13, 2020, 06:54:34 AM
I agree. I also like his Rachmaninov Symphony No.3, Shostakovich Symphony No.6, Sibelius Tone Poems and Schubert's 'Unfinished Symphony'.

Easy to remember that Boult at the BBC premiered MANY works in the UK from Mahler to Wozzeck.  One of his great regrets looking back on his career was that he had not been asked to conduct more opera (which is why he enjoyed his late(ish) discs of Wagner excerpts).  It really was just the record companies that pigeon-holed him as a conductor of British music. 
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on July 18, 2020, 11:19:08 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 18, 2020, 07:10:00 AM
Easy to remember that Boult at the BBC premiered MANY works in the UK from Mahler to Wozzeck.  One of his great regrets looking back on his career was that he had not been asked to conduct more opera (which is why he enjoyed his late(ish) discs of Wagner excerpts).  It really was just the record companies that pigeon-holed him as a conductor of British music.
OT
This is quite a nice set:
[/img]
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 19, 2020, 06:37:45 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on July 18, 2020, 11:19:08 PM
OT
This is quite a nice set:
[/img]

Very interesting set! I have his Wagner Overtures as well. Its a fine album.
Also, the below is his Hindemith set- very good recording.

Ed. For your examination:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lIR6D5rOWxUJt2fYNlaJOWfIJKOECkMss
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on July 19, 2020, 06:46:33 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 19, 2020, 06:37:45 AM
Very interesting set! I have his Wagner Overtures as well. Its a fine album.
Also, the below is his Hindemith set- very good recording.
Ah ha. I have that (somewhere!) on LP.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 19, 2020, 07:14:33 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 18, 2020, 07:10:00 AM
Easy to remember that Boult at the BBC premiered MANY works in the UK from Mahler to Wozzeck.  One of his great regrets looking back on his career was that he had not been asked to conduct more opera (which is why he enjoyed his late(ish) discs of Wagner excerpts).  It really was just the record companies that pigeon-holed him as a conductor of British music.

Boult talks about himself:

https://youtu.be/GWjB3tdtjuo

Vernon Handley talks about Boult (and himself.):

https://youtu.be/d9OoL1EdrR8
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 21, 2020, 04:15:43 AM
Figure skate performance with Masquerade Waltz: Mao Asada.

https://youtu.be/aVF8uWTMWrY
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: techniquest on July 25, 2020, 01:19:17 AM
Looking back to page 4 of this thread, and the mystery around the Voskanyan recording of Masquerade on Denon; I'm currently listening to it on Spotify. I too assumed that the Masquerade music consisted of just the familiar short suite, but there is a great deal more - and some of it is really rather dramatic music.
I was surprised to hear an extensive quote from the Dies Irae part of Khachaturian's own 2nd symphony and also the entry of a choir in one of the later sections. This is music that's well worth exploring for any Khachaturian fan.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 25, 2020, 07:11:28 AM
Quote from: techniquest on July 25, 2020, 01:19:17 AM
Looking back to page 4 of this thread, and the mystery around the Voskanyan recording of Masquerade on Denon; I'm currently listening to it on Spotify. I too assumed that the Masquerade music consisted of just the familiar short suite, but there is a great deal more - and some of it is really rather dramatic music.
I was surprised to hear an extensive quote from the Dies Irae part of Khachaturian's own 2nd symphony and also the entry of a choir in one of the later sections. This is music that's well worth exploring for any Khachaturian fan.

Voskanyan's Masquerade Walts is available at YT as well.
Figure Skater Mao Asada was a big fan of the Waltz and thereby selected the piece for her performance.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lPcYNx645_lk-0NdGfdxUqTEwTp5-73ZE
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 28, 2020, 06:39:15 AM
A nice album with excellent compositions. I don't know any of these Soviet-propaganda movies though. The music in the album are reminiscent of Gayne, and some of them are incredibly solid compositions and there is no weak composition at all. The performance of Armenian Phil is good/fair. If a top-tier orchestra played these works with enhanced vibrancy and texture, these pieces would sound magnificent. Still, the album is well-played and it is an interesting and enjoyable set.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Roasted Swan on July 28, 2020, 10:31:40 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 28, 2020, 06:39:15 AM
A nice album with excellent compositions. I don't know any of these Soviet-propaganda movies though. The music in the album are reminiscent of Gayne, and some of them are incredibly solid compositions and there is no weak composition at all. The performance of Armenian Phil is good/fair. If a top-tier orchestra played these works with enhanced vibrancy and texture, these pieces would sound magnificent. Still, the album is well-played and it is an interesting and enjoyable set.

If you've enjoyed these film scores check out these too

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/TvYykFd3FMSN27iaErkNvWrS7hzEFKX5ldnfzvsVr2SlIvYIe2xji0rAtZsQR4I8PfCrfVS9AvYsXQV2gevoYqoNa-m3KjTUA5mvq7dY0Cuu)

BUT DO go for the Naxos re-release not the Marco Polo original as Adriano re-recorded a couple of bits he wasn't happy with in the first release!
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 28, 2020, 10:39:29 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 28, 2020, 10:31:40 AM
If you've enjoyed these film scores check out these too

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/TvYykFd3FMSN27iaErkNvWrS7hzEFKX5ldnfzvsVr2SlIvYIe2xji0rAtZsQR4I8PfCrfVS9AvYsXQV2gevoYqoNa-m3KjTUA5mvq7dY0Cuu)

BUT DO go for the Naxos re-release not the Marco Polo original as Adriano re-recorded a couple of bits he wasn't happy with in the first release!

I was wondering about that album for long time. It is time for me to order it!  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Roy Bland on August 02, 2020, 06:28:35 PM
Quote from: techniquest on July 25, 2020, 01:19:17 AM
Looking back to page 4 of this thread, and the mystery around the Voskanyan recording of Masquerade on Denon; I'm currently listening to it on Spotify. I too assumed that the Masquerade music consisted of just the familiar short suite, but there is a great deal more - and some of it is really rather dramatic music.
I was surprised to hear an extensive quote from the Dies Irae part of Khachaturian's own 2nd symphony and also the entry of a choir in one of the later sections. This is music that's well worth exploring for any Khachaturian fan.
Integral version should be this
https://www.compozitor.spb.ru/eng/news/?ELEMENT_ID=33443
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on August 04, 2020, 04:11:47 AM
I've enjoyed the Gayaneh Suite from this CD (VSO Golschmann). The 'Dance of Ayshe' reminded me of Basil Poledouris's excellent score for 'Conan the Barbarian':
(//)
Now on to Ippolitov-Ivanov's 'Caucasian Sketches' (Utah SO Abravanel)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 04, 2020, 08:24:16 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 04, 2020, 04:11:47 AM
I've enjoyed the Gayaneh Suite from this CD (VSO Golschmann). The 'Dance of Ayshe' reminded me of Basil Poledouris's excellent score for 'Conan the Barbarian':
(//)
Now on to Ippolitov-Ivanov's 'Caucasian Sketches' (Utah SO Abravanel)

😲😲😲 I will look for the disc as well as Conan The Barbarian!
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on August 04, 2020, 09:23:03 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 04, 2020, 08:24:16 AM
😲😲😲 I will look for the disc as well as Conan The Barbarian!

Seriously DBK Conan is a fine score (original film, not more recent one). I have seen it compared, not unrealistically I think, with Prokofiev's 'Alexander Nevsky' although to be perfectly honest I prefer Poledouris's Conan score to Alexander Nevsky (I much prefer 'Ivan the Terrible'). There are a number of Conan releases. I shall post my favourite versions shortly  :)
OK. Here we go (OT):
[/img]
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 04, 2020, 10:22:35 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 04, 2020, 09:23:03 AM
Seriously DBK Conan is a fine score (original film, not more recent one). I have seen it compared, not unrealistically I think, with Prokofiev's 'Alexander Nevsky' although to be perfectly honest I prefer Poledouris's Conan score to Alexander Nevsky (I much prefer 'Ivan the Terrible'). There are a number of Conan releases. I shall post my favourite versions shortly  :)
OK. Here we go (OT):
[/img]

What's the name of conductor for the first album please?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on August 04, 2020, 11:24:58 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 04, 2020, 10:22:35 AM
What's the name of conductor for the first album please?
Thanks.
Basil Poledouris himself is the conductor DBK.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 06, 2020, 06:47:23 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 04, 2020, 11:24:58 AM
Basil Poledouris himself is the conductor DBK.

Yes some of the songs have similar melodies and rhythms. But they are a little simpler than Khachaturian.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 06, 2020, 06:47:53 AM
Movie trailer of Sabre Dance.

https://youtu.be/O4XN_xORi8E
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 12, 2020, 08:20:03 AM
without intending to, I came across in my collection and listened to Stokowski's version of Symphony No.2 "The Bell".  Exciting version but in music as colourful as this I do struggle if the sonics are old/compromised as here.  I do prefer something lusher/more dynamic.  I try to hear the performance beyond the (acoustic) veil ..... and fail.  My loss in so many performances I know.... sigh.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 12, 2020, 09:00:22 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on August 12, 2020, 08:20:03 AM
without intending to, I came across in my collection and listened to Stokowski's version of Symphony No.2 "The Bell".  Exciting version but in music as colourful as this I do struggle if the sonics are old/compromised as here.  I do prefer something lusher/more dynamic.  I try to hear the performance beyond the (acoustic) veil ..... and fail.  My loss in so many performances I know.... sigh.

There are a few free online graphic equalizer. If you can download the music into mp3,  you can change the sound. Often I boost treble range and reduce mid-range. Free version may not accept a big file. Unless you pay, you may have to make several files for each 4-5 minutes. I did this for old Bolshoi recording of Spartacus.
If the Stokowski Bell is available in mp3 version, also you can get equalizer app for your player and play the music with boosted treble and reduced mid-range.

P.s. I posted a Prokofiev record by Royal Liverpool Orch. Do you know anything about the record, or the orchestra in general? Thanks and stay safe, RS.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on August 12, 2020, 09:26:39 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on August 12, 2020, 08:20:03 AM
without intending to, I came across in my collection and listened to Stokowski's version of Symphony No.2 "The Bell".  Exciting version but in music as colourful as this I do struggle if the sonics are old/compromised as here.  I do prefer something lusher/more dynamic.  I try to hear the performance beyond the (acoustic) veil ..... and fail.  My loss in so many performances I know.... sigh.

You need to hear the Jarvi, Royal Scottish National Orchestra version on Chandos RS. It has the most magnificently intimidating opening of any version that I know:
(//)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 13, 2020, 01:28:03 PM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 12, 2020, 09:00:22 AM
There are a few free online graphic equalizer. If you can download the music into mp3,  you can change the sound. Often I boost treble range and reduce mid-range. Free version may not accept a big file. Unless you pay, you may have to make several files for each 4-5 minutes. I did this for old Bolshoi recording of Spartacus.
If the Stokowski Bell is available in mp3 version, also you can get equalizer app for your player and play the music with boosted treble and reduced mid-range.

P.s. I posted a Prokofiev record by Royal Liverpool Orch. Do you know anything about the record, or the orchestra in general? Thanks and stay safe, RS.

Which Prokofiev recording - the only one I can find is a couple of the Prokofiev Piano Concerti or the cello symphony-concerto.  I don't know either recording but I'm biased about the RLPO - it was the city I grew up in and that was the orchestra whose concerts I most regularly attended.  That was back in Sir Charles Groves' time.  Currently they are playing very well indeed (but so are all the British professional orchestras to be fair) and their international profile under Petrenko has gone up.  But looking back they made excellent discs with Schwartz/Pesek/Janowski/Weller (actually no discs with him but he was great in concert!) etc etc.  The PR "myth" that Petrenko somehow rebuilt the orchestra is no more than that - a myth.  They were good and remain good - just better known.  Try Mackerras' Beethoven cycle or Handley's Vaughan Williams cycle from well before Petrenko to hear that!
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 13, 2020, 03:36:53 PM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on August 13, 2020, 01:28:03 PM
Which Prokofiev recording - the only one I can find is a couple of the Prokofiev Piano Concerti or the cello symphony-concerto.  I don't know either recording but I'm biased about the RLPO - it was the city I grew up in and that was the orchestra whose concerts I most regularly attended.  That was back in Sir Charles Groves' time.  Currently they are playing very well indeed (but so are all the British professional orchestras to be fair) and their international profile under Petrenko has gone up.  But looking back they made excellent discs with Schwartz/Pesek/Janowski/Weller (actually no discs with him but he was great in concert!) etc etc.  The PR "myth" that Petrenko somehow rebuilt the orchestra is no more than that - a myth.  They were good and remain good - just better known.  Try Mackerras' Beethoven cycle or Handley's Vaughan Williams cycle from well before Petrenko to hear that!

Sorry talking about Prokofiev here. Yes it is Petrenko RL. It is Piano Concerto 1+3 by Trpceski/R Liverpool. I thought that the performance was hot though the recording sound is not super good. I was wondering if you knew the album.

YT link here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_npoN7GxyFUuBUc19CAzhN2VBE2ifSDF04
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Roasted Swan on August 13, 2020, 11:12:34 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on August 12, 2020, 09:26:39 AM
You need to hear the Jarvi, Royal Scottish National Orchestra version on Chandos RS. It has the most magnificently intimidating opening of any version that I know:
(//)

Yes that is the version I know best.  Very much from Jarvi's golden period with the SNO (as was) and those Chandos recordings still sound superb.  Curious that the Decca/VPO recording with the composer is relatively disappointing in purely recording terms.  You would have expected them to knock it out of the park - perhaps it needs a remastering.....
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Maestro267 on August 16, 2020, 12:44:50 AM
Listening to the 2nd Symphony, and I'd forgotten just how Rachmaninovian the first movement's first subject sounds like. It wouldn't be out of place at all in Rach's own 2nd Symphony.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on August 17, 2020, 11:01:29 AM
Quote from: Roasted Swan on August 13, 2020, 11:12:34 PM
Yes that is the version I know best.  Very much from Jarvi's golden period with the SNO (as was) and those Chandos recordings still sound superb.  Curious that the Decca/VPO recording with the composer is relatively disappointing in purely recording terms.  You would have expected them to knock it out of the park - perhaps it needs a remastering.....
I'm fond of the VPO version as it was how I discovered the work on LP but you make a good point about the recording:
(//)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Maestro267 on August 17, 2020, 11:07:47 AM
That's the recording I was listening to the other day, and while of course there are better-quality recordings out there, the composer's own is still listenable, and for me the distortion adds to the intensity of the work. Those enormous crashes in the slow movement, with the tam-tam being struck with immense force. And of course the bells that bookmark the work.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on August 17, 2020, 11:12:48 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on August 17, 2020, 11:07:47 AM
That's the recording I was listening to the other day, and while of course there are better-quality recordings out there, the composer's own is still listenable, and for me the distortion adds to the intensity of the work. Those enormous crashes in the slow movement, with the tam-tam being struck with immense force. And of course the bells that bookmark the work.
Yes, I still find it to be a very exciting and moving performance.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Roy Bland on December 07, 2021, 05:50:49 PM
On him

https://armproart.weebly.com/uploads/2/6/1/0/26101763/muzikanty_arm18.pdf
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Roy Bland on May 05, 2023, 06:26:08 PM
From May 15 to May 19, 2023, the Sverdlovsk Philharmonic will host the International Festival "Aram Khachaturian. ", dedicated to the 120th anniversary of the composer.

The events of the festival dedicated to the work of the composer Aram Khachaturian will start at the Sverdlovsk Philharmonic. The program of the festival includes concerts, lectures, and the exhibition "Aram Khachaturian. Faces of the era.

"The history of the Sverdlovsk Philharmonic is closely connected with the name of Aram Khachaturian - we were formed in 1936 and literally from the first season, Khachaturian's music sounded on our stage. The festival opens with the performance of the Dance Suite, which was first performed in our hall in 1938, and the idea of the Second Symphony was born in Sverdlovsk, where the composer was evacuated from October 1941 to August 1942," says Rustem Khasanov, First Deputy Director of the Sverdlovsk Philharmonic.

The Ural Philharmonic and Ural Youth Symphony Orchestras conducted by Dmitry Filatov, as well as soloists from Armenia, will become participants of the music festival.

The program of the festival covers the entire creative path of the composer, from his earliest to his latest compositions, including famous hits - the music of the ballets "Spartacus" and "Gayane", a suite from the music for Lermontov's drama "Masquerade". Some of the chamber works will be performed for the first time in Yekaterinburg - the Sverdlovsk Philharmonic Society continues to acquaint the public with new music.
The program of the festival days is very rich and it is very joyful that musicians from Armenia take part in it, who, with their characteristic national flavor, will perform music as it is performed by the soul of a real Armenian musician. I wish everyone for a few days to immerse themselves in the musical heritage that Aram Ilyich Khachaturian generously left us," said the Minister of Culture of the Sverdlovsk Region Svetlana Uchaikina.
Unique documents and photographs of the composer are provided for the exhibition by the Aram Khachaturian House-Museum in Yerevan. The museum is headed by Professor of the Yerevan Conservatory, pianist, member of the Khachaturian Trio Armine Grigoryan. She will enter the festival stage not only as a performer, but on May 16 she will give a lecture dedicated to the composer.

The meeting will take place as part of a lecture project implemented by the winner of the competition at the invitation of the charitable program "Effective Philanthropy" of the Vladimir Potanin Charitable Foundation.

"The maestro was one of the most famous figures of the 20th century, and many iconic people of that era considered it an honor to get to know him. The photographs presented at the exhibition tell about these interesting and important meetings. And through qr codes, you can get additional information in the form of exclusive videos, frames from films telling about these significant meetings," says Armine Grigoryan, director of the Aram Khachaturian House-Museum in Yerevan.
One of the concerts of the festival will take place in the regional concert hall of the Sverdlovsk Philharmonic in Krasnoturyinsk, and the audience of the virtual concert halls, who will specially come to the concert, will also be its listeners. The opening of the festival will complete the Days of Armenian Culture in the Sverdlovsk region.

"For us, Aram Khachaturian is not just the greatest composer. This is both a diplomat and a goodwill ambassador, an ambassador of culture and art from the Soviet people. It is no coincidence that he headed the Association of the Soviet Union for Interaction and Friendship with the States of Latin America and was a member of the USSR Committee for the Protection of Peace. It is very important for us that during the most difficult years of the Great Patriotic War, this greatest composer was not just in the Middle Urals and lived in Sverdlovsk, but worked intensively and presented his musical works of the highest level," notes Lyudmila Berg, Deputy Minister of International and Foreign Economic Relations of the Sverdlovsk Region

(https://www.classicalmusicnews.ru/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/khachaturyan-fest-2023.jpg)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: W.A. Mozart on May 07, 2023, 07:13:05 AM
What do you think about the symphony 2?

Performed by the Royal Scottish National Orchestra
Conducted by Neeme Järvi

Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: foxandpeng on May 07, 2023, 08:08:19 AM
Quote from: W.A. Mozart on May 07, 2023, 07:13:05 AMWhat do you think about the symphony 2?

Performed by the Royal Scottish National Orchestra
Conducted by Neeme Järvi


Khachaturian #2 is great. Probably my favourite of his symphonies. I do like all of them, even #3 with its organ, which lots of people seem to dislike. Organs tend to be a bit ecclesiastical for me, or at least reminiscent of such things. I do like the Tournemire organ symphony, mind.

Anyway. Khachaturian #2. Win for me.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Mountain Goat on May 09, 2023, 03:53:27 PM
Quote from: foxandpeng on May 07, 2023, 08:08:19 AMI do like all of them, even #3 with its organ, which lots of people seem to dislike.

The 3rd is one of my guilty pleasures, I remember the first time I heard it (on the radio) thinking "this is complete trash, but I love it!" I still can't help feeling I should hate it for some reason, but I really don't. I would love the opportunity to hear it live!

I don't know the other symphonies at all, so must give the 2nd a listen when I have time.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: foxandpeng on May 10, 2023, 07:57:52 AM
Quote from: Mountain Goat on May 09, 2023, 03:53:27 PMThe 3rd is one of my guilty pleasures, I remember the first time I heard it (on the radio) thinking "this is complete trash, but I love it!" I still can't help feeling I should hate it for some reason, but I really don't. I would love the opportunity to hear it live!

I don't know the other symphonies at all, so must give the 2nd a listen when I have time.

We can be the forum Philistines, promoting the music that everybody else thinks is dreadful.

Wait. Don't I do that already???

Ah, well.

Hurray for Khachaturian.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Roasted Swan on May 10, 2023, 10:01:27 AM
Quote from: foxandpeng on May 10, 2023, 07:57:52 AMWe can be the forum Philistines, promoting the music that everybody else thinks is dreadful.

Wait. Don't I do that already???

Ah, well.

Hurray for Khachaturian.

+1 for Khachaturian 3!!
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: pjme on May 10, 2023, 10:27:59 AM
Quote from: foxandpeng on May 10, 2023, 07:57:52 AM. I would love the opportunity to hear it live!

YT has a few unusual live performances

Japan Gustav Mahler Orchestra cond.by Hisayoshi Inoue: https://youtu.be/2v1B-LoSGN0

Moscow / Pletnev: https://youtu.be/MJGiGmDsbxs

The old Stokowski recording has an atrocious sounding cinema-organ! 

Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: vandermolen on May 10, 2023, 10:42:28 AM
Quote from: W.A. Mozart on May 07, 2023, 07:13:05 AMWhat do you think about the symphony 2?

Performed by the Royal Scottish National Orchestra
Conducted by Neeme Järvi

Absolutely fabulous! That amazingly intimidating opening!
No. 3 is a guilty pleasure for me too and No.1 is my favourite - but I like them all.
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: foxandpeng on May 10, 2023, 02:36:01 PM
Quote from: pjme on May 10, 2023, 10:27:59 AMYT has a few unusual live performances

Japan Gustav Mahler Orchestra cond.by Hisayoshi Inoue: https://youtu.be/2v1B-LoSGN0

Moscow / Pletnev: https://youtu.be/MJGiGmDsbxs

The old Stokowski recording has an atrocious sounding cinema-organ! 



Thank you 😊
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Roy Bland on May 20, 2023, 06:11:51 PM
Moscow to host a concert in honor of the 120th anniversary of the birth of composer Khachaturian
The gala concert of the music festival dedicated to the 120th anniversary of the birth of composer Aram Khachaturian will take place on June 6 at the Great Hall of the Moscow Conservatory. P. I. Tchaikovsky. The show will close at the Tula Regional Philharmonic in December, the press service of the organizers said on Wednesday.

"June 6 at 19:00 in the composer's native place, the Great Hall of the Moscow State Conservatory named after P. I. Tchaikovsky, on the birthday of A. I. Khachaturian, the key event of the festival will take place - his gala concert," the message says.

According to TASS, this evening the audience will hear suites from the ballets Spartacus and Gayane, musical fragments from the play The Valencian Widow and other works by Khachaturian. The main conductor and artistic director of the National Philharmonic Orchestra of Armenia Eduard Topchyan and cellist Narek Hakhnazaryan will take the stage with the State Academic Symphony Orchestra of Russia named after E.F. Svetlanov.

The press service also said that in the foyer of the conservatory this evening, guests will be presented with a tablet exhibition dedicated to the musician, prepared by the Russian National Museum of Music (RNMM). "The exposition includes musical manuscripts by A. I. Khachaturian, printed editions of notes of his works, programs, posters, photographs, sketches of scenery and costumes for productions based on his compositions," the message says.

Other events of the show

On May 24, at the State Academic Bolshoi Theater of Russia (SABT), the ballet "Spartacus" will be shown at the festival, and in May and June there will be a composition competition organized jointly with the Gnessin Russian Academy of Music (RAM). "There are two nominations in the competition: toccata and adagio. The chairman of the jury of the competition is a student and assistant of A. I. Khachaturian K. E. Volkov. Jury members: G. Pelecis, O. B. Harris, V. B. Dovgan, V. G Kikta, A.I. Mikita," the press service said.

The tablet exhibition, as the organizers noted, dedicated to the composer, will be presented in all places of the festival events, and its opening will take place on May 20 at the RAM. The organizers also said that the filming of a documentary film is planned for the summer of 2023. "Khachaturian in the memories of his students (A. Rybnikov, K. Volkov, G. Pelecis, T. Shakhidi) and his son (K. Khachaturian). The film will become a unique historical video document: it will convey to many generations the memories of Khachaturian, a teacher and a man, shared by his students and relatives," the message reads.

The review will close on December 2 at the Tula Regional Philharmonic. This evening, the guests will be presented with a concert with the participation of the Tula Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra conducted by Yu. I. Simonov.

Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978) - People's Artist of the USSR, one of the greatest composers of the 20th century, conductor. Author of three ballets, three symphonies, six concertos, a huge number of works of vocal, choral, instrumental and program music, music for films and theatrical productions. Khachaturian - Hero of Socialist Labor, laureate of the Lenin Prize, four Stalin Prizes and the State Prize of the USSR. He was a graduate and honorary professor of the Moscow Conservatory.

(https://www.classicalmusicnews.ru/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/khachaturyan.jpg)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Roy Bland on June 07, 2023, 06:48:25 PM
(https://scontent.ffco2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/350925107_635415805115918_6912138260104212352_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=epedIpy-LkoAX_S7a9x&_nc_ht=scontent.ffco2-1.fna&oh=00_AfAy_Ljhpz74zsYucoKgQW5wbNVaZ-sBqjvyvx1cT2vvAg&oe=6486E846)
Title: Re: Aram Khachaturian (1903-1978)
Post by: Karl Henning on September 14, 2023, 11:23:26 AM
@vandermolen may likely take an interest.