GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: mikkeljs on November 20, 2007, 05:44:56 AM

Title: Scriabins Temple
Post by: mikkeljs on November 20, 2007, 05:44:56 AM
I found a recording of Scriabins last unfinished Preperation for the final Mystery realized by Nemtin. And I read in the cd booklet, that Scriabin believed in some kind of higher level of existence, and that he had serious thoughts about, how his work should transform the human race of the performers and perhabs listeners. 

Do you believe in his idea?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: greg on November 20, 2007, 06:12:28 AM
transform them into what? Transformers?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Don on November 20, 2007, 04:22:17 PM
I found a recording of Scriabins last unfinished Preperation for the final Mystery realized by Nemtin. And I read in the cd booklet, that Scriabin believed in some kind of higher level of existence, and that he had serious thoughts about, how his work should transform the human race of the performers and perhabs listeners. 

Do you believe in his idea?

Although I love Scriabin's music, I don't share his views.  Scriabin was quite ego-centric and perhaps even a nut-job.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Don on November 20, 2007, 04:23:10 PM
transform them into what? Transformers?

You've been playing with toys too often. :D
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: greg on November 20, 2007, 04:23:20 PM
Although I love Scriabin's music, I don't share his views.  Scriabin was quite ego-centric and perhaps even a nut-job.
perhabs?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: greg on November 20, 2007, 04:23:59 PM
You've been playing with toys too often. :D
actually, i think the only reason i can remember their existence is because of the movie lol
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Don on November 20, 2007, 04:27:21 PM
actually, i think the only reason i can remember their existence is because of the movie lol

You went to see it?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: greg on November 20, 2007, 04:30:08 PM
You went to see it?
yeah, with my family.
really good movie, have you seen it?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Kullervo on November 20, 2007, 04:30:57 PM
Do you believe in his idea?

No. If anything it's a reminder of the worst aspects of the Aestheticism "movement" (in quotations because I don't think it can be called a movement per se). People tend to diminish Scriabin's art by citing his "decadent" personality, when they should really be able to appreciate his mastery despite this.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Don on November 20, 2007, 04:38:02 PM
yeah, with my family.
really good movie, have you seen it?

I wouldn't see it at the theatre, on Netflix or on free tv stations.  I'll leave that to the young folks in the world.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Don on November 20, 2007, 04:38:58 PM
No. If anything it's a reminder of the worst aspects of the Aestheticism "movement" (in quotations because I don't think it can be called a movement per se). People tend to diminish Scriabin's art by citing his "decadent" personality, when they should really be able to appreciate his mastery despite this.

And I thought all people can easily separate one's art from personality.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Kullervo on November 20, 2007, 04:46:16 PM
And I thought all people can easily separate one's art from personality.

Are you expressing surprise that people criticize Scriabin for his personality or just being sarcastic?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Don on November 20, 2007, 05:08:42 PM
Are you expressing surprise that people criticize Scriabin for his personality or just being sarcastic?

There's some sarcasm in my comment.  I do believe that everyone has the ability to make the separation, but many folks refuse to do so.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Mark G. Simon on November 20, 2007, 08:06:55 PM
I found a recording of Scriabins last unfinished Preperation for the final Mystery realized by Nemtin. And I read in the cd booklet, that Scriabin believed in some kind of higher level of existence, and that he had serious thoughts about, how his work should transform the human race of the performers and perhabs listeners. 

Don't take this recording as an example of what Scriabin would have written had he lived to compose the music himself. Scriabin left behind only scattered pages of sketches. Nemtin used them up in Part 1 of his three-part marathon, along with some of Scriabin's final piano pieces, which are worked in whole. The rest is a repetition and regurgitation of the same material, over and over with no end. I kind of like Part 1, which was released separately in the late 70s under the title Universe. After that it's just not worth listening to.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: mikkeljs on November 21, 2007, 02:50:11 AM
Don't take this recording as an example of what Scriabin would have written had he lived to compose the music himself. Scriabin left behind only scattered pages of sketches. Nemtin used them up in Part 1 of his three-part marathon, along with some of Scriabin's final piano pieces, which are worked in whole. The rest is a repetition and regurgitation of the same material, over and over with no end. I kind of like Part 1, which was released separately in the late 70s under the title Universe. After that it's just not worth listening to.

Yes I recognized lots of the piano pieces in it. But I think I liked the work though.
No. If anything it's a reminder of the worst aspects of the Aestheticism "movement" (in quotations because I don't think it can be called a movement per se). People tend to diminish Scriabin's art by citing his "decadent" personality, when they should really be able to appreciate his mastery despite this.
But we might agree, that the music is an unrefusable thing, that gives people something they didn´t had before. So isn´t this the whole idea of transfiguration? And to me it seems, that Scriabin just sow this beauty in such a way, as if it was independent from physical hard work.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: O Delvig on November 21, 2007, 09:59:34 AM
Yes, Scriabin was creating a work of art so wondrous that on its premiere the entire world would dissolve in ecstasy and life would become paradise. Then one morning he cut himself shaving and it became infected, and when he realized he was dying he exclaimed, "This is a tragedy!"

That's my favorite Scriabin story.  ;D ;D I also like his "Insect Sonata." It's full of little trills on the piano, these are the INSECTS!! bwa ha ha


they're coming to take me away  $:) $:)
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Sydney Grew on December 26, 2007, 08:05:16 PM
Yes, Scriabin was creating a work of art so wondrous that on its premiere the entire world would dissolve in ecstasy and life would become paradise. Then one morning he cut himself shaving and it became infected, and when he realized he was dying he exclaimed, "This is a tragedy!"

We find it hard to believe this story about Scryabine's having cut himself while shaving. No, what really happened - as the admirable Norman Lebrecht tells us in his book about composers of the twentieth century - was that during a stay in a London hôtel (we do not for the moment know which one) he was given unclean cutlery, and contracted therefrom a pimple on his upper lip. It was this pimple which did not respond to treatment in those pre-penicillin days. As Members will see from this photograph Scryabine was not in the habit of shaving his upper lip:

(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s74/r3boards/R3composers/Scriabin.jpg)

Furthermore his death was indeed a tragedy, since had he lived longer the whole course of twentieth-century music would have been different and dare we say a good deal more agreeable.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Josquin des Prez on December 26, 2007, 08:15:31 PM
Enough with the Transformers talk, that movie was just bad, i mean, really, really bad. Elgar type of bad.
 

Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on December 26, 2007, 09:10:38 PM
Furthermore his death was indeed a tragedy, since had he lived longer the whole course of twentieth-century music would have been different and dare we say a good deal more agreeable.

What's disagreeable about 20th c. music?

EDIT: Never mind...just read your introduction...

Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: The new erato on December 26, 2007, 11:47:47 PM
What's disagreeable about 20th c. music?

EDIT: Never mind...just read your introduction...


Yeah. Scary -isn't it?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Sydney Grew on December 27, 2007, 04:36:09 AM
I found a recording of Scriabins last unfinished Preperation [sic] for the final Mystery realized by Nemtin. And I read in the cd booklet, that Scriabin believed in some kind of higher level of existence, and that he had serious thoughts about how his work should transform the human race of the performers and perhaps listeners. 

Do you believe in his idea?

Certainly we do. The point is that to a sensitive person the every-day world is chock-full of unexplained wonders. We are surrounded at every turn by mystery are we not? They are perhaps familiar mysteries but they are mysteries all the same. Unless we face up to them we are hardly alive.

We cannot help noticing incidentally the quite glaring spelling error that appears in the transcription here of the title of the work. "Preparation" comes from the Latin "praeparare" does it not? It would improve the look of this thread were it to be corrected, and we humbly suggest that this be done.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: mikkeljs on December 27, 2007, 05:11:16 AM
Certainly we do. The point is that to a sensitive person the every-day world is chock-full of unexplained wonders. We are surrounded at every turn by mystery are we not? They are perhaps familiar mysteries but they are mysteries all the same. Unless we face up to them we are hardly alive.

.


I´m glad and surprised that you understand Scriabins view! Perhabs it was also this kind of sensitiveness that made him excentric, and not insanity.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Sydney Grew on December 27, 2007, 05:39:41 AM
. . . the worst aspects of the Aestheticism "movement" (in quotations because I don't think it can be called a movement per se). People tend to diminish Scriabin's art by citing his "decadent" personality, when they should really be able to appreciate his mastery despite this.

It is encouraging to see some one writing about Scryabine's "mastery," but we cannot permit to stand unquestioned this passage, containing as it does no fewer than four quite disturbing misapprehensions:

Permit us briefly to put forward for the elucidation of the more thoughtful Members a few appropriate refutations and corrections:

1) since there are no bad aspects of Aestheticism it follows ipso facto that there cannot be any "worst aspects." Aestheticism was and is all good as far as we know! It is though possible to speak of its "best aspects." Some workers may indeed have done less well than others, and even fallen in some way short of their goal, but they all strove in the right direction did not they, and their productions must then all of them be to a greater or lesser extent good.

2) the second misapprehension is that the "Aestheticism movement cannot be called a movement per se." Well that is simply an error of fact. The "Aesthetic movement" is a commonly accepted term and in the great Oxford English Dictionary it may be found cited several times (in the entry "aesthetic").

3) the third misapprehension is that Scryabine was an aesthete. But he was not an aesthete at all; rather was he a sort of symbolist. And in fact as Jean Cassou tells us, "Scryabine is a composer of transition: whilst belonging to Symbolism through his philosophy of Art, his harmonic language, his use of Symbolist forms such as the Poem and the Prelude, he accomplished all the virtuosity of Symbolism and turned it round towards Modernity. Thus Scryabine like Debussy and even more like Schoenberg made Symbolism blossom by undermining its most revolutionary aspects."

4) the fourth and final misapprehension is that of Scryabine's "decadent personality." But in fact no man was less decadent than Alexander Scryabine! We cannot understood this use of the word decadence in respect of works which stand at the pinnacle of Art and Culture. It is since the death of Scryabine that music and culture in general have gone rapidly down hill. That decline is decadence with a vengeance; people no longer understand Scryabine's work and aims, or even attempt to understand them. Things to-day no longer hold together as they did in the days of his central supremacy, and in general so much which was known and celebrated in those days of glory has now been lost.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: mikkeljs on December 27, 2007, 08:22:35 AM
It is encouraging to see some one writing about Scryabine's "mastery," but we cannot permit to stand unquestioned this passage, containing as it does no fewer than four quite disturbing misapprehensions:

Permit us briefly to put forward for the elucidation of the more thoughtful Members a few appropriate refutations and corrections:

1) since there are no bad aspects of Aestheticism it follows ipso facto that there cannot be any "worst aspects." Aestheticism was and is all good as far as we know! It is though possible to speak of its "best aspects." Some workers may indeed have done less well than others, and even fallen in some way short of their goal, but they all strove in the right direction did not they, and their productions must then all of them be to a greater or lesser extent good.

2) the second misapprehension is that the "Aestheticism movement cannot be called a movement per se." Well that is simply an error of fact. The "Aesthetic movement" is a commonly accepted term and in the great Oxford English Dictionary it may be found cited several times (in the entry "aesthetic").

3) the third misapprehension is that Scryabine was an aesthete. But he was not an aesthete at all; rather was he a sort of symbolist. And in fact as Jean Cassou tells us, "Scryabine is a composer of transition: whilst belonging to Symbolism through his philosophy of Art, his harmonic language, his use of Symbolist forms such as the Poem and the Prelude, he accomplished all the virtuosity of Symbolism and turned it round towards Modernity. Thus Scryabine like Debussy and even more like Schoenberg made Symbolism blossom by undermining its most revolutionary aspects."

4) the fourth and final misapprehension is that of Scryabine's "decadent personality." But in fact no man was less decadent than Alexander Scryabine! We cannot understood this use of the word decadence in respect of works which stand at the pinnacle of Art and Culture. It is since the death of Scryabine that music and culture in general have gone rapidly down hill. That decline is decadence with a vengeance; people no longer understand Scryabine's work and aims, or even attempt to understand them. Things to-day no longer hold together as they did in the days of his central supremacy, and in general so much which was known and celebrated in those days of glory has now been lost.

Very good post! So often music discussions goes radically wrong, simply because people simplify things. Thank you for digging out the threads that speaks positively for Scriabin or Scryabine.  :)
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: The Six on January 10, 2008, 07:45:44 PM
I said this on the old thread - Scriabin is rare in that he uses sounds which would normally be terrible dissonant in a way that makes them consonant. These strange sounds become strangley comforting. It's not often that a tritone can be pleasing and disturbing in the same piece.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: mikkeljs on January 17, 2008, 10:28:14 AM
I said this on the old thread - Scriabin is rare in that he uses sounds which would normally be terrible dissonant in a way that makes them consonant. These strange sounds become strangley comforting. It's not often that a tritone can be pleasing and disturbing in the same piece.

I remember, that you said that before!  :D As well as I have mentioned it also. I think that was my first impression of his music, that I heard something very harmonically responding, that was very dissonantly. Yes, sometimes he can make a tritone sounding as consonantly as a major third.

From time to time I have discovered the same with many other composers(Berg and Webern extremely much), but I think the style of Scriabin just has the quality of expressing this phenomenon much more sudently or unexpected. 
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: mikkeljs on January 18, 2008, 08:39:04 AM
Would it be correct to make a parrallel from Scriabins vision to Stockhausens?

Is there other composers, that overtook Scriabins aesthetic?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Kullervo on January 18, 2008, 09:16:11 AM
Is there other composers, that overtook Scriabins aesthetic?

There is something of Scriabin in Szymanowski and later Bridge.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: mikkeljs on January 18, 2008, 09:57:13 AM
thanks! I will check them out.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: mikkeljs on April 18, 2008, 01:10:18 AM
I have thought about this hypothese: Could it be, that Scriabin wanted the Mysterium to be unfinished and made suicide after having written about an hour of music? Because then the idea would grow imaginatively with other people, and the one who would believe in the potential of this vision, would in a way also believe in something beyond human, that has been intuitively grasped before the physical music experience, and the musical transformation process seems to be gone away with the "pre-humanity".


Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: greg on April 18, 2008, 05:05:11 AM
Could it be, that Scriabin wanted the Mysterium to be unfinished and made suicide after having written about an hour of music?

I seriously doubt that. I just think he wasn't a careful shaver.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: mikkeljs on April 18, 2008, 08:35:55 AM
But... dying by shaving? Isn´t that a vague story.  ;)
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Mark G. Simon on May 01, 2008, 02:37:03 PM
I have thought about this hypothese: Could it be, that Scriabin wanted the Mysterium to be unfinished and made suicide after having written about an hour of music?

He didn't write anywhere near an hour of music. He left a dozen scattered pages, that's all. The rest was the invention of Nemtin.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Cato on May 05, 2008, 08:55:09 AM
He didn't write anywhere near an hour of music. He left a dozen scattered pages, that's all. The rest was the invention of Nemtin.

Right, and Nemtin is an ersatz St. Paul trying to construct 3 hours of his prophet's music (WHY?) out of the same few pages. 

Scriabin's obsession, like Wagner's, with changing human nature via musical sounds goes back at least to Plato's conceit in Book 3 of The Republic that certain ancient Greek scales affect the soul adversely.  As a result he suggested that music be severely curtailed, allowing (as I recall) a sort of socialist realism in his utopia.

What has not been sufficiently appreciated is the possibility that Plato might be making a satirically ironic comment here, and elsewhere, in The Republic.

This idea has been carried forward with things like "The Mozart Effect" and so on.  True and irrefutable scientific evidence (via brain scans, etc.) on either side of the issue still seems elusive.

On the other hand, anecdotal evidence does seem to indicate that a person might at least "feel changed" after hearing a certain work.  The problem is in defining the change itself and how one can  quantify such a change.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: jowcol on December 26, 2008, 12:42:31 PM
I know this thread hasn't been active in a while, but I can't resist weighing in. 

I'm a pretty big Scriabin fan.  For those of you who want to get more of a handle on what a wonderfully whacked out character he was, I'd suggest looking up a copy of Faubion Bowers' biography of Scriabin-- although it's been about thirty years since I've read it, I still don't remember enjoying another biography of any classical composer as much.  Some of the very bizarre telegrams he sent, his attempt to walk on water, and other quirks really added to my appreciation of his music. 

I know he was influenced at one point by the Theosophists, but he was too free a spirt to stay in any one camp.  I don't know if he had any direct ties with the Russian Suprematist and Futurists movement for the poets and the arts, but he seemed to have some of their over-the-top ambition in his works.  I wouldn't view an understanding of these currents a prerequisite for digging into him music, but they are a lot of fun-- and I admire his interest in fusing the arts, and a lot ot the meglomania was catching at the time.  (The Russian Futurists had vowed to put a leash on the moon, in addition to other things). 

I'm sure there have already been threads on his interest in the relatationship between sound and color, and talk about his having synesthesia-- a topic that fascinates me, as I have a mild version of it. 

My interest in his catalog starts around The Poem of Ecstasy or the 5th Piano sonata. 

Come to think of it-- I don't know of any other composer's whose Sonatas I make a point of listening to as much as Scriabin's.  I love the 10th, of course, but also think the 9th is highly underrated.  The mysterious theme it opens with, the way it sustains tension, and the powerful explosion in the last couple minutes really gets me.  It would not hurt me to hear someone take a crack at orchestrating that.  And almost of of his final works pack an incredible amount of mystery into a short space of time.  Supposedly, he varied his phrasing and interpretation so much that he could play the same tune twice in a row without the audience recognizing it.  Vers La Flamme is really stunning-- a very brooding motif that increases in tension and simply explodes into psychedelia.  It's funny-- my taste for solo keyboard tends to focus on baroque, 20th Century Impressionist, and Scriabin's later works.  I can admire his early etudes, but they don't really send me anywhere.

For orchestral works, Prometheus has to be my favorite, with Poem of Ecstasy running close behind.  (I liked the Gergiev version-- this sort of music tends to welcome a flamboyant composer that takes chances.).  There has been some discussion on this thread about Nemtin's realizations of Scriabin's Mysterium. 

I first discovered Universe in the late 70's when I was also discovering Scriabin.  Atlhough it seemed to wander more than the Poem of Fire and Poem of Ecstasy (which is saying a lot- neither of those are what I'd call linear), there are some great colours and textures.   Universe became my favorite "pass out" album.  (One where it didn't matter if you woke back up or not before it was over.)  I just loved getting lost in it-- and sometimes would get jolted awake by the chorus at the end.

I was very excited when I found out that the "Preparations for the Final Mystery" was going to be released, and grabbed it as soon as I could.  My emotions are mixed.  Some of the quotations of the later piano works get in the way for me, and I don't know how anyone could sit through Universe, Mankind and Transfiguration in one sitting without causing permanent damage.  Still, there were several touches I liked (the solo voice, the final cadence), and I don't regret getting it, and I'm glad that Nemtin devoted the time he did to it.  I don't think any of this will replace Scriabin's orginial works, but it's nice to have some variety when I want to lose myself in a Scriabinesque mindscape.

Cato brought up a couple of interesting points in his post that could easily spawn threads of their own.  One is the affect of music on the mind and brain's processing-- which is a major interest of mine.  I think the effect on consciousness can  very dramatic, (particularly with repetitive, incantory types of music.)  As far as being an agent for social and spiritial change, I'm personally more skeptical. 

The reference to PLato was interesting.  In Zamyatin's We (a Russian anti-utopian novel that predated 1984) there is a scene where, instead of listening to sine waves, an audience was treated to a demonstration of irrational music written before Reason took over, and they featured a work by Scriabin, who "suffered from an ancient form of epilepsy called 'inspiration'"

Okay-- consider the Scriabin thread bumped.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: SonicMan46 on December 26, 2008, 01:34:33 PM
I know this thread hasn't been active in a while, but I can't resist weighing in. 

I'm a pretty big Scriabin fan.  For those of you who want to get more of a handle on what a wonderfully whacked out character he was, I'd suggest looking up a copy of Faubion Bowers' biography of Scriabin.................

Okay-- consider the Scriabin thread bumped.


Surprised that I'm not already posted in this thread - also a fan of Scriabin - in fact, I was reviewing bios of this composer on Amazon the other day and the one by Faubion Bower peaked my interest (pic below); appears to be out in a 2nd revised edition (1996) - excellent comments except for one likely undeserved 2* rating - CHECK HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Scriabin-Biography-Revised-Faubion-Bowers/dp/0486288978/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230326541&sr=8-4) -  :)

I've been 'refining & culling out' my Scriabin CD collection for years now, and finally purchased just recently the 3-CD set of his orchestral works w/ Muti & the Philadelphians - superb reviews + some comments made in the 'listening thread' - and inexpensive!

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51X4QVCDEWL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/443190661_KE8yL-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: jowcol on December 27, 2008, 02:19:48 AM
Faubion Bowers is a very interesting character in his own right.  He was General MacArthur's personal interpreter during the occupation of Japan, and was also known for taking a leading role in  preserving  Kabuki theater.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faubion_Bowers

Skryabin writes, “I can’t understand how to write only ‘music’ now. How uninteresting it would be.  Music, surely, takes on idea and significance when it is linked to one single plan within a whole world-viewpoint… Music is the path of revelation… how potent a method of knowledge it is… how much I have learned through music! All I now think and say, I know from my composing.”
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: greg on December 28, 2008, 08:32:21 PM
"Trying to walk on water?"
nice.......... i bet the dude had similar dreams as I have had.

"What if....... what if I'm really immortal?"  ;D
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: TheOverman on January 05, 2009, 09:29:28 PM
For Christmas I received Scriabin's Preludes, Vol. 1 with Evgeny Zarafiants on piano (Naxos).

I thouroughly enjoyed them, and wished to check out more - so I borrowed a CD from my brother.  It is a Decca two CD set of the 3 Symphonies & Le Poeme de l'extase conducted by Asheknazy.  The orchestral pieces seem much more difficult for me to get a grasp of.

Any suggestions? Perhaps I should check out the piano sonatas, not quite sure where to start.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Bulldog on January 05, 2009, 11:25:40 PM
For Christmas I received Scriabin's Preludes, Vol. 1 with Evgeny Zarafiants on piano (Naxos).

I thouroughly enjoyed them, and wished to check out more - so I borrowed a CD from my brother.  It is a Decca two CD set of the 3 Symphonies & Le Poeme de l'extase conducted by Asheknazy.  The orchestral pieces seem much more difficult for me to get a grasp of.

Any suggestions? Perhaps I should check out the piano sonatas, not quite sure where to start.

Thanks.

How about Scriabin playing his own music?  It's on a Pierian disc #18 and includes piano performances by other historical pianists.  Be advised that piano rolls are the medium (if that would trouble you).  Regardless, this disc will give a very good picture of how Scriabin wanted his music played.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: not edward on January 06, 2009, 07:20:59 AM
For Christmas I received Scriabin's Preludes, Vol. 1 with Evgeny Zarafiants on piano (Naxos).

I thouroughly enjoyed them, and wished to check out more - so I borrowed a CD from my brother.  It is a Decca two CD set of the 3 Symphonies & Le Poeme de l'extase conducted by Asheknazy.  The orchestral pieces seem much more difficult for me to get a grasp of.

Any suggestions? Perhaps I should check out the piano sonatas, not quite sure where to start.

Thanks.
The first volume of preludes is of early (though very fine) works, so it doesn't necessarily give you a good picture of how Scriabin's music developed through the whole of his career. You might want to pick up the second volume and listen to the stylistic changes as it moves onwards towards his very last works.

I don't particularly like the Ashkenazy recordings of the orchestral music, and prefer the Muti set (now on Brilliant, I believe). However, for an introduction to the orchestral music I'd probably suggest the following disc which helpfully couples fine performances of the early piano concerto and the late Poeme de l'extase and Prometheus:

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/33/9c/06d09833e7a029dafb911110.L.jpg)
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Drasko on January 06, 2009, 11:28:27 AM
Any suggestions? Perhaps I should check out the piano sonatas, not quite sure where to start.

Yes, I think complete sonatas would be a good idea. They traverse his entire career and through them you can follow his developement. First three fall into his early, romantic period (kind of continuation from Chopin), fourth is middle where tonality is still existent but starts to blurr, dissonance increases, and final, practicaly atonal period from fifth sonata onwards (roughly by opus numbers from 1-29, 30-52, 53-74).

As for which cycle to get, don't really know, but if you don't want to go piecemeal I guess Szidon on DG or Ashkenazy on Decca should do for a start.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: schweitzeralan on January 13, 2009, 10:38:59 AM
I found a recording of Scriabins last unfinished Preperation for the final Mystery realized by Nemtin. And I read in the cd booklet, that Scriabin believed in some kind of higher level of existence, and that he had serious thoughts about, how his work should transform the human race of the performers and perhabs listeners. 

Do you believe in his idea?

The Mysterium was an unfinished work, as Scriabin died before he concluded it.  Some critics claim that the "Mysterium" is more Nemtin than Scriabin.  I tend to disagree, and I wrote a brief review in Amazon.com.  I think its a wonderful work.  I won't get into details here; suffice to say that to me its a transcendental piece.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: schweitzeralan on January 16, 2009, 06:28:09 AM
I found a recording of Scriabins last unfinished Preperation for the final Mystery realized by Nemtin. And I read in the cd booklet, that Scriabin believed in some kind of higher level of existence, and that he had serious thoughts about, how his work should transform the human race of the performers and perhabs listeners. 

Do you believe in his idea?

I do have a layman's question concerning Scriabin's late works.  In the late sonatas, in his "Poeme Nocturne,'' and "Vers la flamme," I sense that Scriabin is using versions of the famed mystic chord.  My questin is this: Are Scriabin's later works haunted by the musical technical mode known as "melodic minor?"  Or, perhaps, the "Super-Locrian?" The mystic chord somehow adumbrates the melodic minor, I think. In distinct passages, of course. There are the usual augmented fourths and fifths in many of his later works. For some reason I have always favored, not exclusively of course, the use of themes and sonorous harmonies that suggest the melodic minor.I even appreciate David Shire's "Zodiac," a movie score due to its pervasive use.  A movie piece yet!  I know not why.  Just a curious psychological twist.  It is a singular fact concerning my love of the music of Sibelius, Scriabin, Ravel, and others, even Bach. Just a question.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Dax on January 17, 2009, 02:57:37 AM
This article (discussing Scriabin's Mysterium and Obukhov's La livre de la vie)may be of interest.

http://blackboard.lincoln.ac.uk/bbcswebdav/users/dmeyerdinkgrafe/archive/skria.html
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: schweitzeralan on January 28, 2009, 05:59:51 AM
This article (discussing Scriabin's Mysterium and Obukhov's La livre de la vie)may be of interest.

http://blackboard.lincoln.ac.uk/bbcswebdav/users/dmeyerdinkgrafe/archive/skria.html

Thanks much for downloading the article by Smon-Shaw Miller.  Very informative professional article on Scriabin's works; gets into aspects of the mystic chord and synestesia.  I have his bio written by Faubion Bowers.  Interesting.  I only wished Scriabin could have lived longer. James M. Baker detailed Scriabin's work in his book "The Music of Alexander Scriabin." Very technical analysis of many of Scriabin's early, middle, and late periods.  All very informative on one of my ultimate favorite composers. 
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: jowcol on February 11, 2009, 03:08:52 AM
How about Scriabin playing his own music?  It's on a Pierian disc #18 and includes piano performances by other historical pianists.  Be advised that piano rolls are the medium (if that would trouble you).  Regardless, this disc will give a very good picture of how Scriabin wanted his music played.

I recall reading somewhere that the Scriabin piano rolls didn't quite capture his sound, because a lot of his technique involved use of the pedals, and the rolls didn't capture them.   But I could be wrong-- so take it with a grain of salt....
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: schweitzeralan on February 11, 2009, 04:44:07 PM
This article (discussing Scriabin's Mysterium and Obukhov's La livre de la vie)may be of interest.

http://blackboard.lincoln.ac.uk/bbcswebdav/users/dmeyerdinkgrafe/archive/skria.html
Thanks for the download.  I'm pleased that there is a Scriabin thread.  He's a wonderful composer who, like Bridge, Stravinsky, Szymanowski, and others who had their evolving periods, or stages, in their works.  Several in this thread have commented on Scriabin's excessive ego.  Alas, he is not unlike so many other composers who were more than aware of their their talents, much less of their genius. I won't get into details here as several contributors to this thread have well commented on this point.  Suffice to say, on my part, that it is not difficult, at least for me the listener, to appreciate the the work, the music.  I'm almost sure that I could never hobnob with the likes of Scriabin, or with other composers I like for that matter.  I  easily separate the man (or woman) from his/her achievements.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Bulldog on February 13, 2009, 06:43:17 AM
I recall reading somewhere that the Scriabin piano rolls didn't quite capture his sound, because a lot of his technique involved use of the pedals, and the rolls didn't capture them.   But I could be wrong-- so take it with a grain of salt....

There are quite a few folks who have a negative view of piano rolls.  From my perspective, it's certainly true to piano rolls do not accurately capture every feature of a performance; my basic complaint is that piano rolls present a smoother performance without much bite.  On the other hand, it sounds as if the pianist is in the same room with you.  So I'm very glad to have the Pierian piano rolls disc.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: George on February 13, 2009, 08:17:15 AM
I recall reading somewhere that the Scriabin piano rolls didn't quite capture his sound, because a lot of his technique involved use of the pedals, and the rolls didn't capture them.   

Interesting, I never thought about pedals and piano rolls.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: schweitzeralan on May 28, 2009, 01:52:46 PM
The Mysterium was an unfinished work, as Scriabin died before he concluded it.  Some critics claim that the "Mysterium" is more Nemtin than Scriabin.  I tend to disagree, and I wrote a brief review in Amazon.com.  I think its a wonderful work.  I won't get into details here; suffice to say that to me its a transcendental piece.

Again I  write about "Mysterium."  To me it makes little, if any difference that Nemptin finished what Scriabin conceived.  It still remains for me a superb, magnifently conceived work.  It's a personal assessment, to be sure.  Even if the work were conceived by robots, Nemptin notwithstanding, it is an exceedingly, dramaric, significant orchestral work. I simply cannot fathom the lack of interest in the recording. But then again, A cacun son gout.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Cato on May 28, 2009, 02:45:17 PM
Again I I write about "Mysterium."  To me it makes little, if any difference that Nemptin finished what Scriabin conceived.  It still remains for me a superb, magnifently conceived work.  It's a personal assessment, to be sure.  Even if the work were conceived by robots, Nemptin notwithstanding, it is an exceedingly, dramaric, significant orchestral work. I simply cannot fathom the lack of interest in the recording. But then again, A cacun son gout.

I agree with reservations: Alexander Nemtin's did a great job with his first 40 minutes: the next two movements seem to show a Captain Ahabsky chasing the Great White Whale of music that Scriabin did not compose, and so the first 40 minutes are given to us as variations again and again.  There are some marvelous moments in the last two movements, but you have - basically - heard them before in the first 40.

Still, an incredible achievement, and I agree that the work, although a hybrid, is unjustly neglected.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: snyprrr on May 29, 2009, 11:38:05 PM
The musical world's equivalent to "tastes just like chicken."

If you can't describe a composer's otherworldly music, just say, "Sounds like Scriabin." Works like a dream!
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: mikkeljs on October 12, 2009, 01:12:47 AM
Someone told me about a mystical book of theory, that Scriabin wrote. I have been googling and went to the library without luck. Has anyone ever read that book, or ever heard of it. It could be very interresting reading! Or perhabs some letters of Scriabin? Just to see how such a person is expressing himself would be interresting to see.

Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: jowcol on October 12, 2009, 04:54:17 AM
The Faubion Bowers biography has quotes many of the letters, as well as some of the very random telegrams he sent.  If you haven't read that, you need to. It's been thirty years since I read it, but I remember more weird details from that than most any other musical biography I've read.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: mikkeljs on October 12, 2009, 06:59:11 AM
really?! Thanks, I will look for that!
I just realized yesterday, that after the old system, Scriabin was born at christmas day and died on easter! First I thought it was a joke, when I saw it, but it seems to be correct.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: mikkeljs on October 12, 2009, 12:03:33 PM
I couldn´t find the Faubion Bowers biography as published on the internet so far.

I have been thinking a lot about his idea with a musical cathedral that would have its own evolution and which would create a new culture of higher beings. Am I the only, who like the idea? Something that involves smell, sound, touch and light performed during 7 days for 100.000 special musicians in a cathedral in Himalaya, would probably be such an experience that one will never forget. It would be an experience of energy as never seen before in history of mankind.


 
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: jowcol on October 12, 2009, 12:43:23 PM
http://scriabinsociety.com/publications.html

Doesn't look good for finding the Bowers Bio.  Amazon is selling used copies for > 100$. The Scriabin society has a few copies if you join and pay 70$.

What a shame! 
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: mikkeljs on October 12, 2009, 01:33:54 PM
just found this

http://books.google.dk/books?id=IdrSpBKW06cC&dq=Faubion+Bowers+scriabin&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=Ojhw8lSsbC&sig=0U8zHI3uESO_z7PtecYeQFaktZM&hl=da&ei=eZPTSv2qJJTE-Qasu6mPAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CCYQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=&f=false


 :D
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: schweitzeralan on October 12, 2009, 06:26:09 PM
This article (discussing Scriabin's Mysterium and Obukhov's La livre de la vie)may be of interest.

http://blackboard.lincoln.ac.uk/bbcswebdav/users/dmeyerdinkgrafe/archive/skria.html
Interesting in-depth study on Scriabin.  It seems I an never get enough of the "Mysterium," at least the first two cd's. I've listened to several of Obukhos pianistic works;howrver, I haven't famliarized myself enough to adjudicate what I've listened to thus far. It appears that Obukhov tendsto be quite Schoenbergian and follows the trend of several post Scriabinists:  Lourie, Roslavets, Protopopov, some of S. Feinberg, all of whom  have shown in several works certain avant-garde tendencies.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: jowcol on October 13, 2009, 04:07:50 AM
just found this

http://books.google.dk/books?id=IdrSpBKW06cC&dq=Faubion+Bowers+scriabin&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=Ojhw8lSsbC&sig=0U8zHI3uESO_z7PtecYeQFaktZM&hl=da&ei=eZPTSv2qJJTE-Qasu6mPAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CCYQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=&f=false


 :D

Very Cool.  Bowers was also a fascinating character-- it's worth looking him up on Wikipedia.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: scarlattiglenross on March 04, 2011, 11:11:21 PM
The second, revised edition of Bowers' Scriabin biography is now back in print after some years fetching ridiculous prices in the rarities sections:

http://www.amazon.com/Scriabin-Biography-Revised-Faubion-Bowers/dp/0486288978/
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: canninator on April 23, 2011, 07:38:29 AM
I'm hoping some of the pianophiles can help me out here. I want to get some (maybe start with 1 disc or a 2fer) Scriabin solo piano. Where to start? Sofronitsky seems to be the man but I have no idea what is available in what sort of sound quality. Sudbin has been talked up, any advice?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Scarpia on April 23, 2011, 07:47:14 AM
I'm hoping some of the pianophiles can help me out here. I want to get some (maybe start with 1 disc or a 2fer) Scriabin solo piano. Where to start? Sofronitsky seems to be the man but I have no idea what is available in what sort of sound quality. Sudbin has been talked up, any advice?

I would think a 2-fer of the Sonatas would be a pretty representative collection of Scriabin (ranging from Chopinesq early works to psychopathic late works).  I have a few but I think Ogden was the most convincing overall.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 23, 2011, 07:49:54 AM
I'm hoping some of the pianophiles can help me out here. I want to get some (maybe start with 1 disc or a 2fer) Scriabin solo piano. Where to start? Sofronitsky seems to be the man but I have no idea what is available in what sort of sound quality. Sudbin has been talked up, any advice?

Well, the discs below are the ones that I own of the solo piano works - if you want just one disc, Elena Kuschnerova is just beautiful in the pieces she performs; if you want a BOX, the Lettberg is a great choice - looking forward to other responses -  :D


(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/ScriabinPreludes/439013860_zrD2r-S.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/ScriabinTaub/439013864_8bchD-S.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/ScriabinLettberg/764533409_g9jS8-S.jpg)
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: jowcol on April 23, 2011, 07:58:05 AM
I'm hoping some of the pianophiles can help me out here. I want to get some (maybe start with 1 disc or a 2fer) Scriabin solo piano. Where to start? Sofronitsky seems to be the man but I have no idea what is available in what sort of sound quality. Sudbin has been talked up, any advice?

This Horowitz collection has both his romantic and late stuff well represented, and for one disc is a solid intro. 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000CF325/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000003EOZ&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0DA2WPAYAZPBB8YGCNV4 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000CF325/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000003EOZ&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0DA2WPAYAZPBB8YGCNV4)

I don't collect versions by too many artists unless I need to, but a collection of  the ten sonatas as a twofer would also treat you well.

Ashkenazy's take on the two Poems Op 71 is also good.



Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: canninator on April 23, 2011, 08:13:53 AM
This Horowitz collection has both his romantic and late stuff well represented, and for one disc is a solid intro. 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000CF325/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000003EOZ&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0DA2WPAYAZPBB8YGCNV4 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000CF325/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000003EOZ&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0DA2WPAYAZPBB8YGCNV4)

I don't collect versions by too many artists unless I need to, but a collection of  the ten sonatas as a twofer would also treat you well.

Ashkenazy's take on the two Poems Op 71 is also good.

The Horowitz is £2.95 on amazon, it just buys itself, thanks  ;D

I've seen the Ogden 2fer on EMI which looks like it has all the sonatas. I may get that.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: canninator on April 23, 2011, 08:26:23 AM
I've gone for this also. By all accounts it's top draw.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/419MuNustnL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Drasko on April 23, 2011, 08:27:58 AM
I'm hoping some of the pianophiles can help me out here. I want to get some (maybe start with 1 disc or a 2fer) Scriabin solo piano. Where to start? Sofronitsky seems to be the man but I have no idea what is available in what sort of sound quality. Sudbin has been talked up, any advice?

Sofronitsky is the finest Scriabin player I ever heard, but the question of sound quality (usually fair to poor) and quality of pianos (especially Scriabin's Bechstein) does exist, and for starters temporarily passing on him is not such a bad idea.

With getting few good recital discs from different pianists the problem is some of the repertoire is going to get doubled, but it's not bad way to start. Sudbin's disc is very good. Playing is mostly on cerebral side, with admirable attention to detail and excellent feel for overall structure of the piece. Not the most exciting Scriabin around but quite worthwhile. Another recital by young-ish pianist I'd recommend is Alexander Melnikov's on Harmonia Mundi, edgier approach than Sudbin but playing non worse (and he plays complete op.75 Preludes - these are not to be missed). Third solo disc I'd go for is one of Horrowitz's. Scriabin elicits some of his finest playing, and CBS 'Horowitz plays Scriabin' is exemplary. 

http://www.amazon.com/Scriabine-Alexander-Scriabin/dp/B000EZ8QS4
http://www.amazon.com/Yevgeny-Sudbin-Plays-Scriabin-Hybrid/dp/B000WH5AYC
http://www.amazon.com/Horowitz-Plays-Scriabin-Alexander/dp/B0000CF325

Getting two-disc set of complete Sonatas is also very good idea, it allows to follow Scriabin's development. Melodiya has just released on CD what is for me possibly best set of complete sonatas - 70s cycle by Igor Zhukov. He can get occasionally bit brutal but his instincts, phrasing, accents are most of the time spot on. It's currently available for pre-order very cheaply from amazon, and I think opportunity shouldn't be missed.

http://www.amazon.com/Sonatas-Scriabin/dp/B004FSJPFO

And after all this you still have hankering to check out Sofronitsky, recitals from '58 and '60 on japanese Denon offer some of the finest Scriabin playing there is. These are also available from Vista Vera.

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=COCQ-83669
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=COCQ-83970

http://www.vistavera.com/index.php?productID=1419
http://www.vistavera.com/index.php?productID=1420   
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: canninator on April 23, 2011, 08:48:15 AM
Sofronitsky is the finest Scriabin player I ever heard, but the question of sound quality (usually fair to poor) and quality of pianos (especially Scriabin's Bechstein) does exist, and for starters temporarily passing on him is not such a bad idea.

With getting few good recital discs from different pianists the problem is some of the repertoire is going to get doubled, but it's not bad way to start. Sudbin's disc is very good. Playing is mostly on cerebral side, with admirable attention to detail and excellent feel for overall structure of the piece. Not the most exciting Scriabin around but quite worthwhile. Another recital by young-ish pianist I'd recommend is Alexander Melnikov's on Harmonia Mundi, edgier approach than Sudbin but playing non worse (and he plays complete op.75 Preludes - these are not to be missed). Third solo disc I'd go for is one of Horrowitz's. Scriabin elicits some of his finest playing, and CBS 'Horowitz plays Scriabin' is exemplary. 

http://www.amazon.com/Scriabine-Alexander-Scriabin/dp/B000EZ8QS4
http://www.amazon.com/Yevgeny-Sudbin-Plays-Scriabin-Hybrid/dp/B000WH5AYC
http://www.amazon.com/Horowitz-Plays-Scriabin-Alexander/dp/B0000CF325

Getting two-disc set of complete Sonatas is also very good idea, it allows to follow Scriabin's development. Melodiya has just released on CD what is for me possibly best set of complete sonatas - 70s cycle by Igor Zhukov. He can get occasionally bit brutal but his instincts, phrasing, accents are most of the time spot on. It's currently available for pre-order very cheaply from amazon, and I think opportunity shouldn't be missed.

http://www.amazon.com/Sonatas-Scriabin/dp/B004FSJPFO

And after all this you still have hankering to check out Sofronitsky, recitals from '58 and '60 on japanese Denon offer some of the finest Scriabin playing there is. These are also available from Vista Vera.

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=COCQ-83669
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=COCQ-83970

http://www.vistavera.com/index.php?productID=1419
http://www.vistavera.com/index.php?productID=1420

Many thanks to all for your help. I've gone with Horowitz and Sofronitsky. I may plump for the Zhukov soon.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Philoctetes on April 23, 2011, 08:49:50 AM
Many thanks to all for your help. I've gone with Horowitz and Sofronitsky. I may plump for the Zhukov son.

I may have to post these on youtube, but my favorite Scrabin is Kuerti (but I'm rather biased towards him).
Title: Re: Scriabin's Temple
Post by: Cato on April 11, 2012, 02:35:22 PM
I thought it was time to open up the Temple after almost a year!   0:)

I just under "What Are Listening To?" wrote about the complete Sonatas by Ruth Laredo (Nonesuch) and Michael Ponti (VOX) from the 1970's.





Any opinions on these or other cycles?  I have not heard the newer ones by e.g. Maria Lettberg.





Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on April 11, 2012, 03:17:30 PM
I've not yet listened to all of the Lettberg set, but I'm very pleased with all that I have heard.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Cato on April 11, 2012, 03:31:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/83y6dWru0XU

I came across this by accident: Alexander Nemtin is the quixotic composer who spent 30 years assembling/"creating"/channeling Scriabin's unfinished Mysterium.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on April 12, 2012, 09:17:12 AM
I just under "What Are Listening To?" wrote about the complete Sonatas by Ruth Laredo (Nonesuch) and Michael Ponti (VOX) from the 1970's.




Any opinions on these or other cycles?  I have not heard the newer ones by e.g. Maria Lettberg.



I have the Laredo. It's a remarkable set with stunning sound, recorded originally by the Connoisseur Society.

I'm also a fan of Ashkenazy's set. And there are always individual sonata recordings to consider, such as Gavrilov's 4th, Richter's 5th, 6th, and 9th, as well as a sleeper in Kocyan's 1st and 2nd, below:





 
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Mirror Image on September 25, 2012, 07:54:03 PM
I'm really quite surprised by the lack of orchestral recordings of Scriabin's music. For me, this is some of the most gorgeous music coming out of Russia during this time. He's one of my favorites Russians, although I have a greater preference for Shosty, Prokofiev, and Stravinsky, but there's something elusive and overwhelming about this music that I have to take notice.

To my knowledge, there are only three cycles of his symphonies: Muti, Ashkenazy, Segerstam, and Inbal (I believe?). I haven't heard Inbal's recordings. Muti's is the best of the lot IMHO. He lives and breathes this music and knows how to keep this music flowing. A great set if you can find. Apparently, it's out-of-print and ridiculously expensive.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Madiel on March 05, 2013, 05:25:32 AM
Hello, Scriabin afficionados.

So, after looking at Spotify sideways/extremely warily at first, I figured out that it is quite a good way to explore music I'm a bit curious about.  And Mr Scriabin became my first choice of a classical composer to investigate.  Knowing barely anything besides one of the opus 42 etudes which I learnt back in the day...

I'm taking the chronological approach, or rather the opus number approach which I think in this case works out to be pretty close.  And while I'm enjoying much of the earlyish music a great deal (heck, I like the piano concerto I'm listening to right now and I'm not on the whole a big fan of the concerto genre), it's usually not terribly radical music yet.  Well-constructed, definitely, but at this point more often than not we have an extremely skilled pupil of Chopin and Liszt on our hands.

I know this is going to change.  What I'm curious to know is when, in the opinion of people more familiar with Scriabin, is it going to change?  Which work or works would you point to and say 'there, now we're really getting something that is recognisably, uniquely Scriabin'?

Wikipedia's list of compositions places the beginning of the 'middle' period at opus 30 (piano sonata no.4).  Is that a fair marker of the point where he's leaving his models behind?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: North Star on March 05, 2013, 09:31:08 AM
Hello, Scriabin afficionados.

So, after looking at Spotify sideways/extremely warily at first, I figured out that it is quite a good way to explore music I'm a bit curious about.  And Mr Scriabin became my first choice of a classical composer to investigate.  Knowing barely anything besides one of the opus 42 etudes which I learnt back in the day...

I'm taking the chronological approach, or rather the opus number approach which I think in this case works out to be pretty close.  And while I'm enjoying much of the earlyish music a great deal (heck, I like the piano concerto I'm listening to right now and I'm not on the whole a big fan of the concerto genre), it's usually not terribly radical music yet.  Well-constructed, definitely, but at this point more often than not we have an extremely skilled pupil of Chopin and Liszt on our hands.

I know this is going to change.  What I'm curious to know is when, in the opinion of people more familiar with Scriabin, is it going to change?  Which work or works would you point to and say 'there, now we're really getting something that is recognisably, uniquely Scriabin'?

Wikipedia's list of compositions places the beginning of the 'middle' period at opus 30 (piano sonata no.4).  Is that a fair marker of the point where he's leaving his models behind?

Yes, Op. 30 is accepted as a threshold. Also the whole poème genre was Scriabin's middle-period invention.
Note how, after Op. 57, there aren't any key signatures (neither in many pieces before that) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Alexander_Scriabin#List_of_works_by_opus_number_or_date_of_composition).

Here's a quotation (or two) from Maria Lettberg's superb set of the complete solo piano works with opus numbers:
Quote from: Maria Lettberg
From 1898 to 1902, Scriabin taught the piano at the conservatory in Moscow.
The years from 1893 to 1903, until the Sonata No. 4 Op. 30, are a part of Scriabin's first artistic period.

However, Scriabin's originality and talent are powerful enough to soon extend and renew Chopin's style, and to arrive at his own unique and unmistakeable [sic] musical language. This transition took place in the years from 1899 to 1903 when Scriabin wrote very little for the piano and instead focussed on symphonic music. The result of this were his first three symphonies, the third one, Divine Symphony, being the most important one.
...
The final five years of his life (1910 to 1915) were marked by Scriabin's unfinished first part of a woek, Preparatory Action. The surviving outline point towards the content of the composer's planned total artwork, Arcanum. This synthetic work was to unite all kinds of art and accomplish no less than an elevation of humanity to a new level of evolution.

During his final years, Scriabin also returned to the piano with all his attention. He wrote the Sonatas No. 6 to 10; the Poèmes Op. 63, 69, 71; Vers la flamme Op. 72;Deux Danses Op. 73; and Préludes Op. 74 - from the perspective of the deep mystery, the Arcanum

Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Mandryka on March 05, 2013, 11:12:23 AM
Hello, Scriabin afficionados.

So, after looking at Spotify sideways/extremely warily at first, I figured out that it is quite a good way to explore music I'm a bit curious about.  And Mr Scriabin became my first choice of a classical composer to investigate.  Knowing barely anything besides one of the opus 42 etudes which I learnt back in the day...

I'm taking the chronological approach, or rather the opus number approach which I think in this case works out to be pretty close.  And while I'm enjoying much of the earlyish music a great deal (heck, I like the piano concerto I'm listening to right now and I'm not on the whole a big fan of the concerto genre), it's usually not terribly radical music yet.  Well-constructed, definitely, but at this point more often than not we have an extremely skilled pupil of Chopin and Liszt on our hands.

I know this is going to change.  What I'm curious to know is when, in the opinion of people more familiar with Scriabin, is it going to change?  Which work or works would you point to and say 'there, now we're really getting something that is recognisably, uniquely Scriabin'?

Wikipedia's list of compositions places the beginning of the 'middle' period at opus 30 (piano sonata no.4).  Is that a fair marker of the point where he's leaving his models behind?

Yes, just thinking of the sonatas it's at the 5th that I start to get very interested. I'm not sure I care much about anything before op 52. Just maybe some of the op 42 etudes, op 42 / 5. Just maybe.

Try Mustonen's Op 6 on spotify, he makes the early pieces sound less derivative of Chopin.

Sometimes even in Chopin mode he produces some fine music, like the nocturne for the left hand op 9. It always reminds me of Chopin op 45, which in turn always reminds me of Brahms. Strange.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Mandryka on March 05, 2013, 11:24:25 AM
How special is Schliessmann's Scriabin CD? Does anyone know it?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Madiel on March 05, 2013, 01:06:52 PM
Yes, Op. 30 is accepted as a threshold. Also the whole poème genre was Scriabin's middle-period invention.
Note how, after Op. 57, there aren't any key signatures (neither in many pieces before that) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Alexander_Scriabin#List_of_works_by_opus_number_or_date_of_composition).

I had noticed the appearance of large numbers of poèmes.  I hadn't consciously noticed, though, the disappearance of key signatures from the descriptions.

I shall continue listening with interest.

Oh, and Mandryka, it was Op.42/5 that I learnt to play. Nightmarish in more ways than one.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Madiel on October 22, 2013, 01:46:30 AM
*bump*

My occasional listening has taken me up to opus 43 - the third Symphony (Le Divin Poème).

And it's a bit of a surprise.  The piano pieces have been getting very fragmentary, but suddenly this symphony seems to be full of great big red-blooded Romantic tunes.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Madiel on December 13, 2013, 01:24:37 AM
I tried on the 'Recordings You are Considering' thread, and got no bites, so I thought I'd try here.

But really, we don't seem to have much of a Scriabin focus...

I'm curious for anyone's thoughts on the Segerstam set of orchestral works.  I'm genuinely surprised that there don't seem to be any thoughts on it, given that it's the version favoured by the Penguin Guide for example. I found one poster asking about it half a dozen years ago and no-one answered then, either.

I know lots of people like Muti's set, but Muti is missing the Piano Concerto and Reverie, so I'd least like to know where people would rank Segerstam's collection.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Octave on December 13, 2013, 01:47:38 AM
I am glad you asked and I hope to hear a perspective on this, too.  The two complete symphony sets that I was most interested in acquiring have both been out of print for a little while: the Muti and the later (~90s) Svetlanov (last issued by Warner?).  Melodiya reissued the earlier Svetlanov just a year or so ago, but I keep receiving accounts of the inferiority of its sound and maybe the playing as well.
I do want the Sviatoslav Richter PC that was included with that Melodiya set....I need to dig around for it elsewhere.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: milk on December 13, 2013, 02:33:12 AM
I don't know why I have such a hard time with this composer. I've been trying over and over again to fall in love but it hasn't happened yet. I know there is something genius here. I think I will take a break and try again. It's frustrating me and I don't want to give up. Recently I bought this:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51KSsK5G50L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Now on this recording I've detected horrible snorting and breathing. For me, it means I can't focus on the music but am just waiting for the next snort. I don't get how one gets over that.
Anyway, I ended up getting the Laredo set. I will push ahead with that. I also have the preludes by Marta Deyanova and etudes by Ohllson. I suppose some people would say, "if you don't enjoy the music then don't worry about it." But I feel I need to find a way.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Madiel on December 13, 2013, 03:26:38 AM
Whereas I've actually been quite pleasantly surprised at how much I've enjoyed, going through the works chronologically (using Lettberg for the solo piano, and Sergstam for the orchestral works, both on Spotify).

I do think being a bit chronological helped, actually, as I was gradually exposed to the... disintegration of tonality I guess.

It's definitely been the larger pieces I've liked though.  Some of the preludes, or groups of preludes, and other works - particularly in the middle part of Scriabin's career - are just so tiny and fragmentary that they don't end up registering.  Whereas I've consistently liked the sonatas, and other solo piano works of, say, 3-4 minutes and longer.  It feels like there's a still a sense of form even as the harmonic style of the music becomes endlessly wandering.

I'm up to Sonata No.9 right now. I honestly didn't think I'd have much appreciation from No.6 onwards, but I've rather enjoyed my first listens.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: milk on December 13, 2013, 05:02:57 AM
Whereas I've actually been quite pleasantly surprised at how much I've enjoyed, going through the works chronologically (using Lettberg for the solo piano, and Sergstam for the orchestral works, both on Spotify).

I do think being a bit chronological helped, actually, as I was gradually exposed to the... disintegration of tonality I guess.

It's definitely been the larger pieces I've liked though.  Some of the preludes, or groups of preludes, and other works - particularly in the middle part of Scriabin's career - are just so tiny and fragmentary that they don't end up registering.  Whereas I've consistently liked the sonatas, and other solo piano works of, say, 3-4 minutes and longer.  It feels like there's a still a sense of form even as the harmonic style of the music becomes endlessly wandering.

I'm up to Sonata No.9 right now. I honestly didn't think I'd have much appreciation from No.6 onwards, but I've rather enjoyed my first listens.
Maybe my mistake is starting with the later acclaimed sonatas. It's not that I dislike them. They just haven't registered with me yet, even after trying lots of times. But maybe I should try again with the early sonatas first. I think I will find my way into the music. Trying to get into the 20th century, there is some music that's just knocked me over from the start - like Shostakovich's preludes and fugues. 
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Cato on December 13, 2013, 10:39:59 AM
Maybe my mistake is starting with the later acclaimed sonatas. It's not that I dislike them. They just haven't registered with me yet, even after trying lots of times. But maybe I should try again with the early sonatas first. I think I will find my way into the music. Trying to get into the 20th century, there is some music that's just knocked me over from the start - like Shostakovich's preludes and fugues.

There is a definite change between the Fourth and Fifth Piano Sonatas: the Fifth points much more to the future, although it does retain a link back to the Fourth and the earlier sonatas here and there.

Consider the differences between the Fourth (Poem of Ecstasy) and Fifth (Prometheus) Symphonies!

Segerstam's
recordings of the early symphonies I find most excellent, although for the Third Symphony (The Divine Poem) I really like Pletnev on DGG.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: lescamil on December 13, 2013, 01:27:18 PM
Scriabin has sort of become one of my specialties as a performing pianist, and I've recently tackled the 3 Op. 65 etudes. What is your favorite recording of these works? I haven't really found one that I like completely, for all of the ones I've heard seem to be missing something.

A neutral reference point for those that don't know them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo90rVb4osk
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Dax on December 13, 2013, 04:05:55 PM
Do you not like Richter on op 65?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: milk on December 13, 2013, 04:08:48 PM
Scriabin has sort of become one of my specialties as a performing pianist, and I've recently tackled the 3 Op. 65 etudes. What is your favorite recording of these works? I haven't really found one that I like completely, for all of the ones I've heard seem to be missing something.

A neutral reference point for those that don't know them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo90rVb4osk
That is really bizarre haunting music! I don't know if it's just the midi, but it sounds insane. Maybe I need a recording of that.
ETA: I have the Garrick Ohllson.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: lescamil on December 13, 2013, 04:33:01 PM
The problem I have with the Richter recording is that it is counter to my interpretive interests in the piece. It seems like he plays it more as a virtuoso etude (well, it is an etude), really emphasizing the technical aspects of the work, but I want to hear more of the interplay of the voices in the piece, particularly in the first one. A lot of pianists miss the all-important inner voices in that etude, and Richter is no exception. Also, it seems like pianists play the 3rd etude too fast and unclearly. I'll have to give Ohlsson a listen. I generally like his playing, and I don't know him for Scriabin at all.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Madiel on December 14, 2013, 01:47:11 AM
Good grief. Amazon's price on the Lettberg 8-CD set is only $21.

I shall have to think about this. I wasn't sure that I really wanted a set of that size because there would be a few discs of the fragmentary little pieces I'm currently less convinced about.  But $21 covers the discs of the sonatas and makes everything else a very healthy bonus.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: North Star on December 14, 2013, 01:51:13 AM
Good grief. Amazon's price on the Lettberg 8-CD set is only $21.

I shall have to think about this. I wasn't sure that I really wanted a set of that size because there would be a few discs of the fragmentary little pieces I'm currently less convinced about.  But $21 covers the discs of the sonatas and makes everything else a very healthy bonus.
I haven't got too much solo piano Scriabin outside that box (Sokolov, couple of bits from Horowitz), but the Lettberg set is at that price an absolutely mandatory acquisition!
Which pieces do you mean by fragmentary? The prelude sets?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Madiel on December 14, 2013, 01:58:35 AM
Which pieces do you mean by fragmentary? The prelude sets?

Preludes, yes, but not only them. Some of the other 'Morceaux' collections and poemes, too. There are a lot of opuses that either consist of pieces each no more than about 90 seconds long, or even a single piece only around that length. As mentioned higher up the page, I've found these a lot harder to appreciate than the larger scale works while listening to Lettberg's set on Spotify (an opus at a time).
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: lescamil on December 14, 2013, 05:08:45 PM
Good grief. Amazon's price on the Lettberg 8-CD set is only $21.

I shall have to think about this. I wasn't sure that I really wanted a set of that size because there would be a few discs of the fragmentary little pieces I'm currently less convinced about.  But $21 covers the discs of the sonatas and makes everything else a very healthy bonus.

This box set is a vast improvement over Ponti, which has not-so-great sound quality and the interpretations are very uneven. Lettberg is not perfect either, for many of her interpretations sound very metronomic. However, if you don't know the music and want something to get to know it on a neutral level, this would be for you. The price certainly makes it a risk worth taking.

I gave the Ohlsson Op. 65 etudes a listen, and I find his rubato a bit too extreme with it. I sort of wish he would just play the music for what it is, instead of trying to pull more out of it than what is there. I suppose it is the opposite problem I have with many other performers.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on December 10, 2014, 08:40:33 AM

Scriabin: Prélude cis-moll (left hand) with Yuja Wang
live at the Wiener Konzerthaus


(http://konzerthaus.at/magazin/Portals/0/blog_data/WienerKonzerthaus_YouTube_Graphic225.jpg) (http://konzerthaus.at/magazin/)

https://www.youtube.com/v/v3uaXw8k8As
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: xochitl on April 23, 2015, 12:59:12 AM
so today is the 2nd or 3rd time i ever listen to scriabin. the previous times i tried to get through more than a few sonatas (performed by ashkenazy whos supposedly among the best in this music) and all i could think of was 'oh, so it's shapeless atonal crazy russian chopin' and that was that. next.

this time i started a midnight walk around my neighborhood (i just needed the exercise and fresh air. nothing to do with the music) and thought i'd give old scriab' another chance.
put on the 9th sonata, ashkenazy: ugh, terrible sound. how am i supposed to be transported to another realm if the piano sounds hollow and tinny? the thing went by, i made some mental notes. ok, let's put on something else.
in goes prometheus performed by gergiev/kirov. the stravinsky coupling i never bothered to listen to in the half decade ive had this recording.

starts off strange and im getting annoyed. all those half shades of things by the trumpets, snippets of god knows what fluttering about in the strings, like chinese debussy or something. i hold on and decide im gonna crack this guy, whatever it takes, so i keep walking.
before i know it the night starts weighing down on me. what is this feeling? i havent been afraid of the dark since the age of 7 or 8. is this really happening? i start looking around me anxiously for signs of danger. 'am i gonna die, here, in the sidewalk...wait, what are those things moving about?' and i literally jump then freeze when a light goes off and i see my shadow spread across a fence.
so i calm myself down and try to figure out if it's the music or if im just finally going cuckoo. it better be the music.
i keep listening and at this point ive turned around back home cos my legs are getting tired and im getting really paranoid and when the music starts making more tonal sense and i can sort of grasp at shapes and clusters and it doesnt sound like wisps of oriental smoke it starts hitting me.
it starts really hitting me.
i swear i had an of out of body experience. the last 4-5 minutes of the thing i kept thinking 'hes gonna make some kind of orgasmic resolution, isnt he?' and i just kept waiting for it not realizing i was already there. i started laughing out loud in intense pleasure mixed with disbelief.
and then it ended.
i took off the earphones, kept walking the last 2 blocks in stunned silence with a big stupid smile on my face, failed to recognize my house until i was almost past it, and finally collapsed on the porch looking at the stars. i think for about 60 seconds i felt the most purely happy ive ever been. like existence made sense. i wondered if the God i havent believed in a long time actually visited me personally.
and now im writing this because i have to tell somebody. maybe scriabin wasnt full of it
i hope it was the music
(and im not on ANYTHING)
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Wanderer on April 23, 2015, 02:16:56 AM
(And to think that the performance you listened to isn't particularly good.)
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: xochitl on April 23, 2015, 02:37:42 AM
 ???
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Cato on April 23, 2015, 03:13:50 AM
???

That is some story!

Let me recommend that you try following Scriabin's evolution from the First Piano Sonata onward, and maybe you will hear and understand his development.  The Fourth and Fifth Sonatas especially show that something new is blossoming.

If you have the funds, these performances might tickle your ears better:





or Ruth Laredo's famous set.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on April 23, 2015, 05:57:41 PM
or Ruth Laredo's famous set.

+1


Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: kishnevi on April 23, 2015, 06:13:31 PM
That is some story!

Let me recommend that you try following Scriabin's evolution from the First Piano Sonata onward, and maybe you will hear and understand his development.  The Fourth and Fifth Sonatas especially show that something new is blossoming.

If you have the funds, these performances might tickle your ears better:



A further refinement:  don't bother with Lettberg, but instead get this in addition to the Ponti double CD Cato posted
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/713jNcfS6oL._SX522_.jpg)
which contains everything else.

Never heard the Laredo,  but Ponti is to my ears much better than Lettberg.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on April 23, 2015, 07:40:26 PM
Never heard the Laredo,  but Ponti is to my ears much better than Lettberg.

Laredo for me is a wonderful "story teller" in this music. All whisper and suggestion. Using an economy of means to get powerful results. She surprises, time and again.

Her approach is the antithesis of the Ashkenazy's and the Ponti's but it does Scriabin proud.

 
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Wanderer on April 23, 2015, 10:06:04 PM
For a more modern, angular approach in the late sonatas and superhuman virtuosity throughout (the Fourth Sonata does fly!),  I'm also very fond of Hamelin's set.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: xochitl on April 24, 2015, 02:35:36 AM
thanks guys. i have much to encounter!
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Cato on April 24, 2015, 03:59:08 PM
A further refinement:  don't bother with Lettberg, but instead get this in addition to the Ponti double CD Cato posted
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/713jNcfS6oL._SX522_.jpg)
which contains everything else.

Never heard the Laredo,  but Ponti is to my ears much better than Lettberg.

Agreed: yet there are many positive things in the approach of Maria Lettberg, and I wanted to offer more than one possibility.  And that set also has a DVD with an interview with her about Scriabin and a multi-media project.
Title: Re: Scriabin's Temple: Complete Works on DECCA
Post by: Cato on June 30, 2015, 02:29:05 PM
Courtesy of the Wall Street Journal:

Quote
...Scriabin: The Complete Works,” an 18-CD set on Decca said to be the first of its kind, provides the opportunity to assess his output as a totality. Featuring performances from the label’s esteemed catalog and 64 newly recorded tracks, it traces the composer’s evolution in the piano and orchestral realms from imitator to innovator. The downside of the compilation’s essentially chronological presentation is that there’s a lot of dross amid the gold....

(My emphasis above: the reviewer does not think much of the Preludes.)

Quote
...Valentina Lisitsa offers nuanced readings of the 36 pieces she recorded for the compilation, but in loud passages she tends to bang. By contrast, Mikhail Pletnev’s sole contribution is the Poème in F-sharp minor; his delicate, lilting touch is like a butterfly caressing the keys. Pierre-Laurent Aimard’s only contribution is a lucid, technically superb—if chilly—perusal of the “Black Mass” sonata. ...

According to annual repertoire surveys by the League of American Orchestras from 2000 to 2011, Scriabin’s symphonic compositions are vastly underplayed compared with those by contemporaries like Debussy, Ravel and Rachmaninoff. (That’s unlikely to change in the future, despite the boomlet at the Chicago Symphony Orchestra under the estimable Riccardo Muti.) Perhaps it’s because Scriabin’s works need conductors with a strong sense of structure and the ability to convey unfettered passion....

Mr. Ashkenazy also tackles Russian composer Alexander Nemtin’s lengthy reconstruction of “Actions Préalable” (“Preparation for the Final Mystery”), based on unnumbered sketches by Scriabin.... “Mysterium” was intended to be a multimedia extravaganza over a period of seven days in a specially constructed cathedral in the Himalayas, with orchestra, large mixed choir, visual effects, dancers, incense, mists and more. At the end, he reportedly believed, the world would end; a nobler race would arise. In its unrealized concept, if not in the variable quality of Nemtin’s concoction, nothing better captures the essence of Scriabin’s peculiar genius.

See:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/scriabin-the-complete-works-review-1435614322 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/scriabin-the-complete-works-review-1435614322)
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: pjme on July 02, 2015, 10:02:17 AM
I recently discovered Indo-German pianist Pervez Mody.
What do you think of his interpretations?

https://www.youtube.com/v/lPpWWIw4k1Y


And if you are in Amsterdam , november 28th:

Markus Stenz and the Radio Philharmonic Orchestra take on Scriabin's fantastic "Mysterium" - a work that was completed by Nemtin after Scriabin's sudden death in 1915. Stenz and the orchestra will be joined by the Radio Choir, Alexei Volodin (piano) and Sara Hershokowitz (soprano).

http://www.concertgebouw.nl/concerten/skrjabins-onbereikbare-mysterium
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: John Whitmore on November 15, 2015, 10:34:39 AM
Can somebody help. A concert pianist friend of mine, Norma Fisher, did a BBC broadcast in the 1970s of some Scriabin sonatas.The BBC hasn't kept the tape. Does anybody have a cassette of this? I would very much like to borrow it and copy it for her. Many thanks in advance. John Whitmore
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: pjme on November 17, 2015, 04:23:53 AM
Too bad that I cannot be there:


Radio Filharmonisch Orkest

Groot Omroepkoor

Vlaams Radio Koor

Markus Stenz - dirigent

Alexei Zuev - piano

Marisol Montalvo - sopraan


Programma

Skrjabin / Nemtin - 'Mysterium’ (L’acte préable’)

https://www.concertgebouw.nl/concerten/skrjabins-onbereikbare-mysterium/28-11-2015/van=2015-11-28

Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Cato on November 17, 2015, 04:48:11 AM
Too bad that I cannot be there:


Radio Filharmonisch Orkest

Groot Omroepkoor

Vlaams Radio Koor

Markus Stenz - dirigent

Alexei Zuev - piano

Marisol Montalvo - sopraan


Programma

Skrjabin / Nemtin - 'Mysterium’ (L’acte préable’)

https://www.concertgebouw.nl/concerten/skrjabins-onbereikbare-mysterium/28-11-2015/van=2015-11-28

Wow!  Great choice!  I assume they will make this available online at some point?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: pjme on November 17, 2015, 05:19:07 AM
Yes, I think so. Check out Dutch Radio 4.

I'll try to keep you informed.

Peter
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: lescamil on November 17, 2015, 08:14:00 PM
It will be. All of their Saturday Matinee concerts are recorded and available hours after they happen, and some even end up on YouTube. I'll keep an eye out on all outlets.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Cato on November 24, 2015, 04:31:02 AM
A visit to the Scriabin Museum in Moscow is described in an article in today's Wall Street Journal:

Quote
...After one dons the required plastic shoe coverings, a creaky, red-carpeted staircase awaits; at the top is a large painting of the composer—the mustache is unmistakable—spiffily dressed in a winged collar and brown tie, with vest and jacket to match. Just another half flight, and you have arrived at the year 1915.

...Scriabin’s Bechstein piano occupies the left side of the large living room; it is still actively used. Over the years it has served for recitals by a host of pianists, including Vladimir Horowitz, Sergei Rachmaninoff and Mikhail Pletnev.

Gloves and a top hat are displayed behind glass, and photographs are spread across walls everywhere in the house: a group portrait of his teacher Nikolai Zverev with pupils who include not only Scriabin but Rachmaninoff; family portraits; early music manuscripts and posters. There is a bust of the composer created by sculptor Serafim Sudbinin in 1908, commissioned by Serge Koussevitzky. ...

But the attention-getter here is the color organ built by Scriabin’s friend, the scientist Alexander Mozer, designed for use in a performance of the composer’s mystical orchestral work “Prometheus: The Poem of Fire” (1910). It’s a small wooden circle of 12 electric lamps in a spectrum of colors that fits easily on the desk in this music room. “Prometheus” was likely the first music score to include instructions for projecting colors corresponding to the tones being played. ...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-house-that-prometheus-built-1448321201 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-house-that-prometheus-built-1448321201)
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: lescamil on November 28, 2015, 10:29:57 AM
Here is Mysterium from earlier today. The piece starts around the 59 minute mark on the recording.

http://www.radio4.nl/ntrzaterdagmatinee/uitzending/321383/ntr-zaterdagmatinee
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Turner on December 25, 2016, 05:15:38 AM
SCRIABIN: COMPLETE WORKS - DECCA 18 CD BOX

http://www.classicalcdreview.com/scriabinbox.html
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2015/Aug/Scriabin_complete_4788168.htm

A lot of real rarities here, which is the main reason for acquiring the set, plus some decent performances, and some less interesting ones too.

But: I just discovered that CD 4 and CD 10 has been switched in the box set.
So that CD 4 contains the material of CD 10, and vice-versa.
Luckily, it´s all there anyway.

What wonderful music he composed.




Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on December 28, 2016, 04:25:47 AM
Man I need more of his work in my collection, I've mainly stuck to the orchestral works, preludes and etudes but he has so much more awesome piano music!!!!!!!   :-* :-* :-*  ;D ;D ;D  8)

If you cave to the Ponti recommendations (and why not; they are obviously well intended and believed-in recommendations), I would urge you also to consider some other interpretations, especially with the Sonatas.
Ponti bangs these works out so mercilessly (on an upright piano, no less!!!), there is little to nothing left of the colors and muted shades that make middle- to late Scriabin piano works so special. If you listen to only one Scriabin sonata to hear how it can be done, make it Lubimov's "Messe Noire". http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/09/dip-your-ears-no-44.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/09/dip-your-ears-no-44.html)

I consider Håkon Austbø  (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/09/visual-music-musical-vision.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/09/visual-music-musical-vision.html)), Pletnev  (http://amzn.to/2idJJpM)(only very few sonatas available), and Sudbin (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2007/11/dip-your-ears-no-85.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2007/11/dip-your-ears-no-85.html), ditto) in a class of their own.
Title: Re: Scriabin's Temple
Post by: Moonfish on May 29, 2018, 07:23:27 PM
*bump*

Not too much activity here. I was reading a bit about Rachmaninov and Scriabin and discovered that they pretty much had parallel trajectories in their younger days. Regardless, it made me a bit curious about Scriabin's music - the path of the conventional (following Chopin-like compositions) to the orthodox (the path of mystery - music as transcendence). [BTW how can one resist that line of thinking]. I'm curious about how he was inspired by Chopin!

So - reading the thread - the best way to tackle Scriabin is by selected highlights rather than a chronological approach? Thoughts and recommendations beyond what already has been covered in the thread? After all, a couple of years have passed!  ???


(https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2014/10/17/3304843-836de2c4861c7bb5efcc987944c2ce238c256030-s900-c85.jpg)

Title: Re: Scriabin's Temple
Post by: Moonfish on May 29, 2018, 07:25:39 PM
Scriabin in the "news":

Postlude To A Kiss: Scriabin's Raging 'Poem Of Ecstasy' (https://www.npr.org/sections/deceptivecadence/2014/10/18/356899393/postlude-to-a-kiss-scriabins-raging-poem-of-ecstasy)

Hmm, interesting perspective on life..

(http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-i-am-god-i-am-nothing-i-m-play-i-am-freedom-i-am-life-i-am-the-boundary-i-am-the-peak-alexander-scriabin-87-76-16.jpg)


Btw there was an early thread that focused on Scriabin's symphonies: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=4649.0
Title: Re: Scriabin's Temple
Post by: Moonfish on May 29, 2018, 10:11:20 PM
I think I have been listening to Scriabin for hours (YouTube can be a temptation). Probably four different versions of Poem of Ecstasy at this late hour.  Very transcendent - I lean towards Svetlanov at this point.  :P     A Scriabin comparison "game" would be fun. By the way - does GMG do them nowadays or are they just distant memories of the past?

Scriabin: Poem of Ecstasy
USSR Symphony Orchestra
Svetlanov


https://www.youtube.com/v/Pn5GcJFq-Qw


Hmm, what do you think about Salonen's performance (Philharmonia O; BBC Proms 2010)?

Scriabin: Poem of Ecstasy
Philharmonia Orchestra
Salonen


https://www.youtube.com/v/HAnVrdQ3qFk

Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: aukhawk on May 30, 2018, 12:24:42 AM
I seem to recall there's a Zubin Mehta / LAPO recording of that somewhere, coupled with a most luscious Verklarte Nacht.

I get on better with the piano music and Klara Min was rightly recommended by Todd see here:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,26952.msg1101922.html#msg1101922 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,26952.msg1101922.html#msg1101922)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/516cLF4aQWL._SS425.jpg)
Title: Re: Scriabin's Temple
Post by: Moonfish on May 30, 2018, 09:55:25 AM
I seem to recall there's a Zubin Mehta / LAPO recording of that somewhere, coupled with a most luscious Verklarte Nacht.

I get on better with the piano music and Klara Min was rightly recommended by Todd see here:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,26952.msg1101922.html#msg1101922 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,26952.msg1101922.html#msg1101922)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/516cLF4aQWL._SS425.jpg)

Thanks for the recommendation, Aukhawk! So many recordings of Scriabin's piano works. Quite a maze!
Title: Re: Scriabin's Temple
Post by: Moonfish on May 30, 2018, 10:03:53 AM
After reading this thread, sampling Scriabin on YouTube for hours and much pondering I went for....

Neeme Järvi's Scriabin performances of the symphonies:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81lkn5zAvOL._SL1200_.jpg)

and the early Melodiya Scriabin/Svetlanov recordings..... (Svetlanov's overall performances in the realm of classical music are growing on me)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81v0WlzcRBL._SL1200_.jpg)

Following Cato's advice for the piano works:(it seems like Ponti has mixed reviews and I don't like Vox's plastic boxes for some reason)
(for some reason the Ponti 5 cd set was only $13 on Amazon, but "higher powers" have now corrected the price - go figure!)

Title: Re: Scriabin's Temple
Post by: Moonfish on May 30, 2018, 10:04:58 AM
SCRIABIN: COMPLETE WORKS - DECCA 18 CD BOX

http://www.classicalcdreview.com/scriabinbox.html
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2015/Aug/Scriabin_complete_4788168.htm

A lot of real rarities here, which is the main reason for acquiring the set, plus some decent performances, and some less interesting ones too.

But: I just discovered that CD 4 and CD 10 has been switched in the box set.
So that CD 4 contains the material of CD 10, and vice-versa.
Luckily, it´s all there anyway.

What wonderful music he composed.

The MusicWeb review for the Decca box is quite interesting (and detailed)!  :P
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2015/Aug/Scriabin_complete_4788168.htm

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91Uw8w%2Bq4QL._SL1500_.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81EOd5OvaRL._SL1055_.jpg)
Title: Re: Scriabin's Temple
Post by: Moonfish on May 31, 2018, 11:53:09 PM
I came across what looks like a very interesting biography focused on Alexander Scriabin:
Scriabin, a Biography by Faubion Bowers
Dover; ISBN 978-0486288970

https://smile.amazon.com/Scriabin-Biography-Second-Revised-Dover/dp/0486288978/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1527842727&sr=1-1&keywords=bowers+scriabin

"This definitive biography of Alexander Scriabin (1871–1915), newly revised and updated by the author, incorporates many confessional letters and personal reminiscences in a vivid, highly personal portrait of the controversial Russian composer. One of the visionary pioneers who sought a new musical language — at least a full decade before the advances of Stravinsky and Schoenberg — Scriabin immersed himself in a search for a way to express, in sound, the mystical and theosophical ideals that obsessed him.
This monumental biography probes the complexities of the composer's personal revolution as it chronicles the turbulent events of his upbringing, marital life, and career: his tours of Europe and America, abandonment of his wife, brushes with homosexuality and madness, and the flowering of an unrealized vision to synthesize all of art and life in an all-encompassing final work. Originally published in two volumes, the work is republished here in one volume unabridged, complete with a catalog of Scriabin's works and 49 rare photographs."


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BWPWwUwqL._SX315_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Cato on June 01, 2018, 05:51:49 AM
Yes, the Faubion Bowers book is still the standard biography, as far as I know!

Welcome to Scriabin's Temple indeed!  I recall coming across the Poem of Ecstasy via a record showing Gustav Klimt's painting called The Kiss over 50 years ago. 

After that, I was hooked!  It was like WSCR, "All Scriabin, all the time!"  8)
Title: Re: Scriabin's Temple
Post by: Moonfish on June 01, 2018, 12:29:37 PM
Yes, the Faubion Bowers book is still the standard biography, as far as I know!

Welcome to Scriabin's Temple indeed!  I recall coming across the Poem of Ecstasy via a record showing Gustav Klimt's painting called The Kiss over 50 years ago. 

After that, I was hooked!  It was like WSCR, "All Scriabin, all the time!"  8)

Oh, good. I think that will be one of my "summer" books! I'm quite interested in Russian history and culture overall and there is no better way to add to that journey. Encounters with biographies just adds to the understanding - highlights so to say. Besides, it also adds to the listening experience.  :)
Thanks for the welcome to Scriabin's Temple, Cato!  0:)
Title: Re: Scriabin's Temple
Post by: Moonfish on June 01, 2018, 12:38:43 PM
Scriabin: Symphony No. 1
Avdeeva/Grigoriev
The Republican Choir
The State Academy Symphonic Orchestra
Svetlanov

(1963)

A first listen to Scriabin's First Symphony via Svetlanov's recording from 1963. I'm very impressed - this is a marvelous symphony: inviting and vibrant throughout. The sound is much better than I expected. Excellent!  I must admit that I was a bit surprised as I expected a much more chaotic soundscape - instead it is warm, vibrant and filled with various interconnecting themes. It is obviously early Scriabin so he can be viewed as being a bit more conventional. I have sampled his later symphonic works and the chaos aspects don't seem severe (at least in my ears). Perhaps the solo piano works are a different story entirely?  This particular symphony is very colorful - I can't help mentioning that after reading about Scriabin. Are the rumors true that he partially perceived music within the realm of colors? Intriguing! I'm also glad that I chose Svetlanov's early recordings from the 1960s as a first encounter. I was hesitating between Muti and Svetlanov, but my recent "Russian listening" has favored Svetlanov.  I couldn't help but to opt for the Russian forces as I approached Scriabin.  It was serendipity that it was still available via a vendor. I'm thinking about checking out Kitajenko's recording with the Frankfurt orchestra later on for a comparison. Great music!!!!!  Five stars! 0:) 0:) 0:) 0:) 0:)


(https://img.discogs.com/VPOHVGC1oWTQUSjglwXyHI0wI6U=/fit-in/600x603/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7515989-1443095262-3808.jpeg.jpg)(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0003/458/MI0003458480.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: aukhawk on June 01, 2018, 01:32:49 PM
Chromesthesia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromesthesia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromesthesia)
is apparently a thing, yes.
Title: Re: Scriabin's Temple
Post by: Cato on June 01, 2018, 01:36:56 PM
Scriabin: Symphony No. 1
Avdeeva/Grigoriev
The Republican Choir
The State Academy Symphonic Orchestra
Svetlanov

(1963)

A first listen to Scriabin's First Symphony via Svetlanov's recording from 1963. I'm very impressed - this is a marvelous symphony: inviting and vibrant throughout. The sound is much better than I expected. Excellent!  I must admit that I was a bit surprised as I expected a much more chaotic soundscape - instead it is warm, vibrant and filled with various interconnecting themes. It is obviously early Scriabin so he can be viewed as being a bit more conventional. I have sampled his later symphonic works and the chaos aspects don't seem severe (at least in my ears). Perhaps the solo piano works are a different story entirely?  This particular symphony is very colorful - I can't help mentioning that after reading about Scriabin. Are the rumors true that he partially perceived music within the realm of colors? Intriguing! I'm also glad that I chose Svetlanov's early recordings from the 1960s as a first encounter. I was hesitating between Muti and Svetlanov, but my recent "Russian listening" has favored Svetlanov.  I couldn't help but to opt for the Russian forces as I approached Scriabin. It was serendipity that it was still available via a vendor. I'm thinking about checking out Kitajenko's recording with the Frankfurt orchestra later on for a comparison. Great music!!!!!  Five stars! 0:) 0:) 0:) 0:) 0:)


(https://img.discogs.com/VPOHVGC1oWTQUSjglwXyHI0wI6U=/fit-in/600x603/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7515989-1443095262-3808.jpeg.jpg)(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0003/458/MI0003458480.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

I owned a copy of that recording when it first came out!  The Russians are indeed a logical choice for Scriabin, but certainly others since the time of that recording make their cases quite well.  Yes, Scriabin seems to have had synaesthesia.

I think most would agree that Scriabin worked out his musical progress first on the piano: certainly the Fifth Symphony shows parallels with some of the later sonatas.  Most radical of all is the unfinished Prefatory Action: Universe which was given life by composer and Scriabin acolyte Alexander Nemtin.  To fill in gaps in the sketch, he orchestrated parts of the late piano works, and then apparently created whole movements by composing variations on the original sketches.

So you end up with a remarkable hybrid!  ;)
Title: Re: Scriabin's Temple
Post by: kyjo on June 01, 2018, 01:37:57 PM
A first listen to Scriabin's First Symphony via Svetlanov's recording from 1963. I'm very impressed - this is a marvelous symphony: inviting and vibrant throughout. The sound is much better than I expected. Excellent!  I must admit that I was a bit surprised as I expected a much more chaotic soundscape - instead it is warm, vibrant and filled with various interconnecting themes. It is obviously early Scriabin so he can be viewed as being a bit more conventional. I have sampled his later symphonic works and the chaos aspects don't seem severe (at least in my ears). Perhaps the solo piano works are a different story entirely?  This particular symphony is very colorful - I can't help mentioning that after reading about Scriabin. Are the rumors true that he partially perceived music within the realm of colors? Intriguing! I'm also glad that I chose Svetlanov's early recordings from the 1960s as a first encounter. I was hesitating between Muti and Svetlanov, but my recent "Russian listening" has favored Svetlanov.  I couldn't help but to opt for the Russian forces as I approached Scriabin.  It was serendipity that it was still available via a vendor. I'm thinking about checking out Kitajenko's recording with the Frankfurt orchestra later on for a comparison. Great music!!!!!  Five stars! 0:) 0:) 0:) 0:) 0:)

I love Scriabin's First Symphony as well, especially the glowingly lyrical, life-affirming finale with its vocal solos and choral contributions. In general, I think Scriabin's symphonies are quite underrated - my favorite is the dramatic Second, which charts a powerful journey from darkness to light.
Title: Re: I Have Arrived at Scriabins Temple
Post by: snyprrr on June 17, 2018, 02:35:31 PM
Stravinsky-to-Messiaen-to-Satie-to-Debussy-to-Chopin....

so now I'm at Scriabin, whom I've always found Dreary Dreary Dreary,... I'm only talking Piano Music right now (I have fond memories of the last two Orchestral Works).

All I have is Op.74, and, yea, I'm getting nothing out of it (off of a supremely dreary CD, 'Preludes to A Revolution', wouldn't be without it!!)... currently listening to Sokolov playing the 'Black Mass',... yeeea,...ahhh,... I'm SUPPOSED to like this... I had the Horowitz back in the early 90s, Scriabin was too much for me, and, as a fan of Esoterix, I just didn't get Scriabin's "satanism" (please, I only mean it in the "blahblahblah" sense)...the darkness, or is it madness... Lovecraft?...

Oh, Karl's not going to be pleased...


I'm thinking perhaps you could recommend me some earlier, tuneful, works,... please?!!
Title: Re: I Have Arrived at Scriabins Temple
Post by: Madiel on June 20, 2018, 01:16:35 AM
I'm thinking perhaps you could recommend me some earlier, tuneful, works,... please?!!

Sonatas.
Title: Re: Scriabin's Temple
Post by: vandermolen on June 20, 2018, 03:45:01 AM
I love Scriabin's First Symphony as well, especially the glowingly lyrical, life-affirming finale with its vocal solos and choral contributions. In general, I think Scriabin's symphonies are quite underrated - my favorite is the dramatic Second, which charts a powerful journey from darkness to light.
+1
Title: Re: I Have Arrived at Scriabins Temple
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on June 20, 2018, 10:50:05 PM

I'm thinking perhaps you could recommend me some earlier, tuneful, works,... please?!!

Preludes! (http://a-fwd.to/5BrcMOT)
Title: Re: I Have Arrived at Scriabins Temple
Post by: snyprrr on June 26, 2018, 03:58:56 AM
Preludes! (http://a-fwd.to/5BrcMOT)

This is what I ended up ordering:

1) Lisitsa 'Nuances & Ashkenazy 'Vers la Flamme'... mostly because, between them, they have a LOT of the smaller, cool, pieces. Whether their playing is the cat's meow, will shall see, but, I do like the layout.

2) Volodos at Carnegie, and in Vienna, which have PS 7&10, and some small pieces. Why? VOLODOS!!

3) Mikhail Rudy 'Late Works' on Calliope



As for the Sonatas, 1&3&5 are too extrovert for me; I really liked 2&4. I really liked the behemoth 8,but this time I found 9 just kind of clangy (I liked 6 better than 9)... still working on 7 and 10...
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: snyprrr on July 08, 2018, 05:42:58 AM
I've been reeeally digging into Scriabin- what a complex and fascinating Composer! I'm even surprised by his EarlyWorks,... great melodic  and harmonic invention, so tuneful!

I've finally mapped out all the PRELUDES- some are the most beautiful thing I've heard, and some are just Crash&Burn. It seems like people like Richter and Horowitz prefer the inflamed Scriabin, whereas I prefer the quieter stuff. Yea, I really don't care for all that Romantic ANGST.- so, it's interesting when Scriabin replaces the crash/bang in his LateWorks with a more scampering capriciousness.

He certainly IS King of the Miniature,... more so than Satie (two totally different manifestations of the same thing?)...


Anyhow, Scriabin dying from a pimple on his lip seems to fit his "crime" of overstepping God? Seems fitting, and he didn't make it to the end of WWI like the other ArchOccultist Debussy... interesting 'invisible' stuff here, imo...
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: zamyrabyrd on July 08, 2018, 06:44:17 AM
I've been reeeally digging into Scriabin- what a complex and fascinating Composer! I'm even surprised by his EarlyWorks,... great melodic  and harmonic invention, so tuneful!

I've finally mapped out all the PRELUDES- some are the most beautiful thing I've heard, and some are just Crash&Burn. It seems like people like Richter and Horowitz prefer the inflamed Scriabin, whereas I prefer the quieter stuff. Yea, I really don't care for all that Romantic ANGST.- so, it's interesting when Scriabin replaces the crash/bang in his LateWorks with a more scampering capriciousness.

He certainly IS King of the Miniature,... more so than Satie (two totally different manifestations of the same thing?)...

Anyhow, Scriabin dying from a pimple on his lip seems to fit his "crime" of overstepping God? Seems fitting, and he didn't make it to the end of WWI like the other ArchOccultist Debussy... interesting 'invisible' stuff here, imo...

Can you give some examples of the quieter stuff?  I'd like to hear other than variations of the Poem of Ecstasy.

PS He actually succumbed in Moscow in 1915, so also missed the Revolution. Interesting to speculate what would have happened with him.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Cato on July 08, 2018, 10:56:55 AM
I've been reeeally digging into Scriabin- what a complex and fascinating Composer! I'm even surprised by his EarlyWorks,... great melodic  and harmonic invention, so tuneful!

I've finally mapped out all the PRELUDES- some are the most beautiful thing I've heard, and some are just Crash&Burn. It seems like people like Richter and Horowitz prefer the inflamed Scriabin, whereas I prefer the quieter stuff



Can you give some examples of the quieter stuff?  I'd like to hear other than variations of the Poem of Ecstasy.


How about the Mazurkas, Opus 3 ?  #5, #9, and #10 might be to the liking of both of you. 0:)  Also, the later set of Mazurkas, Opus 25 has several "meditative" pieces.

https://www.youtube.com/v/bynx_QnvYtw


PS He actually succumbed in Moscow in 1915, so also missed the Revolution. Interesting to speculate what would have happened with him.

An enemy of the people, undoubtedly!  To be sure, he was a revolutionary, but a musico-theological one!  Scriabin and Socialist Realism?  As they say these days, "I'm not feeling that one!"  ;)

Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: snyprrr on July 09, 2018, 06:05:54 AM
Can you give some examples of the quieter stuff?  I'd like to hear other than variations of the Poem of Ecstasy.

PS He actually succumbed in Moscow in 1915, so also missed the Revolution. Interesting to speculate what would have happened with him.

Check these out:

15/4

16/4
16/3

17/3
17/6

31/4

33/1***
33/2

35/2- my notes "Lovecraft Largo"

37/1
37/3

39/3

48/2***



Let's just leave off there, before the rush to the final phase... (before the "morceaux era")


The works I just cited should blow some people away... there is some unparalleled beauty going on here....



I'M ABOUT 4/5 DONE WITH MY INITIAL SURVEY/RESEARCH... He's really made an impact this time.... can't stand his "clangy" stuff (mostly the hard core Preludes)... but, wow, he certainly doesn't shy away from normal beauty! AND THEN THERE'S THE MYSTERY CHORDS AND SUCH- feels like juicy laboratory experiments come to life...I JUST DON'T HEAR THIS KIND OF THING IN DEBUSSY...



SONATA 8 is my BigDaddy work a the moment... but I haven't really delved into 7 or 10 (waiting on Volodos)... 6 will take sometime...




LISTITSA- I'm really enjoying her 'unknown pieces' recital. I'm so surprised by his Op.1 Waltz, and the surprises keep coming... some pieces seem prolix- 'Allegro de concert' and the 'Polonaise' didn't do much for me... 59/1, however...

ASHKENAZY 'Vers la Flamme'- though the programme on offer has many goodies, and compliments the Listitsa perfectly, VAsh maaay just be a wee bit old to be playing these... I'm not criticizing his whole performance, it's just that I can hear more than he's giving... SOME TIMES... still, with the pieces offered, I.am.not.complaining.

VOLODOS- can't wait!

DEMIDENKO- Sonata No.2... can you really find a better presentation?? -this is some reeeally fine stuff here, fortes are absorbed nicely... I like Pogo, but DemiD is no one's
                           shiner.

RUDY- his survey of the 'Late Works' may be unparalleled... seems soooo superior... my HIGHEST SCRIABIN RECOMMENDATION!!!



Other CDs that have piqued my interest:

1) Dinova on DoReMi

2) not "Oldfather", but the other well known "Carter type pianist" on a small label playing a verrry personal selection of small pieces






CATO- I'm leaning towards Feinberg in the Mazurkas... can we talk about Pizzaro vs. Music&Arts Guy vs. Marta/Nimbus vs. ... who else??...







STILL WANT TO KNOW HOOOW HE GOT THAT PIMPLE!!!!
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Cato on July 10, 2018, 08:39:33 AM


CATO- I'm leaning towards Feinberg in the Mazurkas... can we talk about Pizzaro vs. Music&Arts Guy vs. Marta/Nimbus vs. ... who else??...


STILL WANT TO KNOW HOOOW HE GOT THAT PIMPLE!!!!



Who else?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/818P5SnLKQL._SL550_.jpg)


Also, Ruth Laredo, who died 13 years ago at a too-young age!

(https://img.discogs.com/UaxB1V-ChbBUAjUIS7UjIzvpbVE=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2914823-1307067224.jpeg.jpg)

As for the septicemia from an infected "pimple" (more accurately a boil or "furuncle") on his lip, the mustache is probably the reason.  Probably it hid the boil for too long, and I can imagine Scriabin (perhaps) not wanting to shave the mustache because of vanity, and thinking the pimple/boil would just dissipate on its own.  One source (Peter Deane Roberts in a collection of essays called Music of the Twentieth Century Avant-Garde (Larry Sitsky, Editor) ) says that Scriabin had noticed a sore one his upper lip in 1914, a year before his death.  Possibly it never completely healed, but stayed dormant, and then something caused it to become inflamed again.  Another source said it was an insect bite, rather than a sore caused by dirt or bacteria building up in the thick mustache.

But this source The Alexander Scriabin Companion, offers the best medical explanation:

https://books.google.com/books?id=QQ8oDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA129&lpg=PA129&dq=Scriabin+%2B+boil+on+the+lip&source=bl&ots=uW8s2YnRDB&sig=9bbePX8ww9HG0Ea2CDbHzK11KUY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAv7HWiJXcAhVNbK0KHWPYDuwQ6AEIWjAP#v=onepage&q=Scriabin%20%2B%20boil%20on%20the%20lip&f=false (https://books.google.com/books?id=QQ8oDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA129&lpg=PA129&dq=Scriabin+%2B+boil+on+the+lip&source=bl&ots=uW8s2YnRDB&sig=9bbePX8ww9HG0Ea2CDbHzK11KUY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAv7HWiJXcAhVNbK0KHWPYDuwQ6AEIWjAP#v=onepage&q=Scriabin%20%2B%20boil%20on%20the%20lip&f=false)
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: snyprrr on July 11, 2018, 05:16:06 AM
Who else?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/818P5SnLKQL._SL550_.jpg)


Also, Ruth Laredo, who died 13 years ago at a too-young age!

(https://img.discogs.com/UaxB1V-ChbBUAjUIS7UjIzvpbVE=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2914823-1307067224.jpeg.jpg)

As for the septicemia from an infected "pimple" (more accurately a boil or "furuncle") on his lip, the mustache is probably the reason.  Probably it hid the boil for too long, and I can imagine Scriabin (perhaps) not wanting to shave the mustache because of vanity, and thinking the pimple/boil would just dissipate on its own.  One source (Peter Deane Roberts in a collection of essays called Music of the Twentieth Century Avant-Garde (Larry Sitsky, Editor) ) says that Scriabin had noticed a sore one his upper lip in 1914, a year before his death.  Possibly it never completely healed, but stayed dormant, and then something caused it to become inflamed again.  Another source said it was an insect bite, rather than a sore caused by dirt or bacteria building up in the thick mustache.

But this source The Alexander Scriabin Companion, offers the best medical explanation:

https://books.google.com/books?id=QQ8oDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA129&lpg=PA129&dq=Scriabin+%2B+boil+on+the+lip&source=bl&ots=uW8s2YnRDB&sig=9bbePX8ww9HG0Ea2CDbHzK11KUY&hl=en&sa=X& did him ved=0ahUKEwjAv7HWiJXcAhVNbK0KHWPYDuwQ6AEIWjAP#v=onepage&q=Scriabin%20%2B%20boil%20on%20the%20lip&f=false (https://books.google.com/books?id=QQ8oDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA129&lpg=PA129&dq=Scriabin+%2B+boil+on+the+lip&source=bl&ots=uW8s2YnRDB&sig=9bbePX8ww9HG0Ea2CDbHzK11KUY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAv7HWiJXcAhVNbK0KHWPYDuwQ6AEIWjAP#v=onepage&q=Scriabin%20%2B%20boil%20on%20the%20lip&f=false)

Scriabin primped like a teenage girl :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Yea, pictures of him at school, sans 'stache, reveal a Prokofiev-like, cartoonish, upper lip, that, one can see, is the source of the 'stache... oooh, such vanity in Scriabin!! I see it was his VANITY that did him in.

And yea, that "thing" is soooo problematic for me... I have a 'stache-phobia that way... it's such a horrendous 'stache, you can definitely see something bad happening there...

oh, and the account... yukkk...

I STILL THINK GOD HIMSELF STRUCK DOWN Scriabin, for his unbridled vanity, in such an embarrassing way... I can only imagine how the "god-man" Scriabin must have thought- "Is THIS how I go down???...MEEEE????"...


One can see from ANY pic of him, how he LOOOOOVES himself to no end, his chin jutting up, so full of his theosophistry...


Is there a HUMBLE Scriabin out there? ...certainly not Szymanowski,lol,...
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple HOROWITZ...OP.68... 1953... OH!! MY!!....
Post by: snyprrr on July 11, 2018, 05:23:55 AM
Piano Sonata No.9 Op.68 'Black Mass'[


I have just heard Horowitz's 1953 'live' performance of Op.68. WOOOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The piece seems to technically last for about 8 minutes. Ugorski takes 10!!! Horowitz's studio recording takes 9. Here, he takes 6:36!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, it is the ONLY version now for me that IS correct. WTF are all these other people DOING??? Nobody even comes close...Novitskaya is great at 7:37, but Horowitz then shaves a minute off that, and, BAMM!!!, he nails the "demonic" element that no one else gets.

Maybe the devils that Scriabin was communing with settled on Horowitz?/ I always thought VH was an OLD MAN, but, wow,...



Oh, I am no longer any good for the duration...


WHY DO THE MASTERS ALWAYS HAVE BAD SOUND!!!???!!! Why can't anyone ever play like the oldsters... there's nothing to  it, just play it FAST

what's the problem people????
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Cato on July 11, 2018, 01:11:43 PM
Have you heard this?  Vers la Flamme also with Horowitz detonating the notes (he once called the work an "atomic bomb").  0:)

https://www.youtube.com/v/MueioLajS2E
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple HOROWITZ...OP.68... 1953... OH!! MY!!....
Post by: Madiel on July 12, 2018, 03:26:48 AM
what's the problem people????

The problem is that liking things played FAST is not necessarily valued by that large segment of the population that doesn't tend towards writing in all caps and using many more punctuation marks than usual.  You like your music manic because that's the way you roll. Not all listeners or performers share your personality.

As to why you like older recordings, different cultures also have different artistic values so maybe it just happens that there were more people who valued FAST classical music at that time compared to now.
Title: Evil Must Be Done Away with Quickly: Scriabin & the Devil
Post by: snyprrr on July 12, 2018, 04:39:54 AM
The problem is that liking things played FAST is not necessarily valued by that large segment of the population that doesn't tend towards writing in all caps and using many more punctuation marks than usual.  You like your music manic because that's the way you roll. Not all listeners or performers share your personality.

As to why you like older recordings, different cultures also have different artistic values so maybe it just happens that there were more people who valued FAST classical music at that time compared to now.


No. Sonata 9 simply needs to be played correctly, which is..."fast"... @6:45 on the clock... no "values" involved, just CORRECTNESS... Ugorski clocking in at over 10 minutes, is just WRONG headed in his interpretation, that's all... most people are"wrong", and that includes SuperStar Pianists too!!

some Scriabin needs to be played "slow"...



yea,... no,... I'm right as usual 0:)




And, lol, I'll go further and say that, after hearing Horowitz53 and not coming to the same conclusion will make ONE wrong too!


This is not about "taste", just "correctness". Sure, I have a taste for Beethoven5 played at a snail's pace, but, of course, that's just NAUGHTY on my part... I know full well how it ought to sound...



Blatty would agree, I think... I'm sure of it.




You tell me, does the "devil" play it slow, or fast???? It's so funny, because the actual character of the music changes - those opening downward blah-blah-bllah- played slowly they sound dreary and tired (almost as if God is weary of the devil), but, when played at the correct, mischievous, tempo, those downward notches take on a "moving" quality... the devil on the move.

There is NO "Scriabin Danger" in the slow playing, and this is called 'Black Mass' after all.THIS IS NOT ABOUT MUSIC, and, perhaps, Horowitz was possessed of a "devil"??? ...at least in 1953??


I'm sure Scriabin would agree, too $:)




Yes, hearing 53 has changed me >:D 0:) >:D 0:) >:D 0:)...




Demidenko is 9:16. As good as he may be, it's not the same piece of music as Horowitz53. That's almost 3 minutes difference in a piece that averages @8:16!


REMEMBER- Jesus said unto Judas "Do what thou do... QUICKLY"


Evil must be done away with quickly, there, done,check's in the mail.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple SONATA NO.8 OP.66
Post by: snyprrr on July 19, 2018, 08:46:46 AM
Sonata No.8 Op.66

Is this the most advanced music ever written? I've been plowing through performers, up to about seven- Ponti=9:57   Zhukov=16:45- yes, it's incredible!! (median performance=13;20)


Most performers play this as if it were being created out of thin air, and it's such a thoroughly involving score from front to back, notes "plucked" out of space, great swells...


The Ponti is really boss, but then, the Zhukov almost sounds like a whole other piece (and wow is he delicate!). Lettberg seemed mysterious in deep ambience; Donohoe was vigorous, Ohlsson was more like Zhukov; Ashkenazy fared surprisingly well, and Austbo had much of the best of all worlds. I have Rudy, who ranks right at the top (though, everyone seems to do this one well enough).


Scriabin really lets the music "show" you things, the shapes the music makes suggests the opening of the vortex, over and over, recreating itself- but in a much more varied way than 'Vers la flamme'. I struggle to come this work to any other Composer...



I'm still saving Sonatas 6-7 until the mail arrives,... oh goody!!...
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple PIANO SONATA NO.10 OP.70
Post by: snyprrr on July 23, 2018, 05:39:44 AM
Piano Sonata No.10 Op.70

I'm just not 'getting it'. It seems quite "pure",... yet, "godless" (as in, what's the point)... I've only heard one rendition where it actually sounds like "insects" (don't remember), and this was the fastest performance I'd heard: yes, at that speed, the insects "come alive"... in all other versions, all I hear are "trills".

In a way, it's quite Moderne, as in Debussy's Etudes... but,at the speeds most are playing (@12.3 minutes... some go to 14.5, the quickest one was around 10), the piece barely hangs together for me... there's just so many silences and spaces, followed by a little tinkling or noodling...

Is everyone missing the boat here?? Does the piece need to be radically reinterpreted?


I have Volodos: at 12 minutes, all I get is a "beautiful" rendition of music that I'm not understanding (I understood it quite well when I heard that fast version).

ANYONE????
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple PIANO SONATA NO.10 OP.70
Post by: Cato on July 27, 2018, 04:45:26 AM
Piano Sonata No.10 Op.70

I'm just not 'getting it'. It seems quite "pure",... yet, "godless" (as in, what's the point)... I've only heard one rendition where it actually sounds like "insects" (don't remember), and this was the fastest performance I'd heard: yes, at that speed, the insects "come alive"... in all other versions, all I hear are "trills".

In a way, it's quite Moderne, as in Debussy's Etudes... but,at the speeds most are playing (@12.3 minutes... some go to 14.5, the quickest one was around 10), the piece barely hangs together for me... there's just so many silences and spaces, followed by a little tinkling or noodling...

Is everyone missing the boat here?? Does the piece need to be radically reinterpreted?


I have Volodos: at 12 minutes, all I get is a "beautiful" rendition of music that I'm not understanding (I understood it quite well when I heard that fast version).

ANYONE????

Try Michael Ponti's performance:

https://www.youtube.com/v/rcigKVyqsMM
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: snyprrr on July 31, 2018, 02:40:47 AM
YES! Ponti keeps pooping up as a singular voice of blazing glory, such as in his 10 minute No.8. Neuhaus, also, is the only one who actually made the music sound like... and I do think No.10 sounds like the sounds of Egypt and scarabs and mysterious purity of sand...

Been dipping into the Decca 'Mysterium'...


btw- No.10 reminds me of Debussy's Etudes... soooo modern, we really need a super avant player to tackle these Last Works.



been on the Scriabin train for a  ...month now,... such an arc of trajectory
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Cato on July 31, 2018, 06:47:16 AM
YES! Ponti keeps pooping up as a singular voice of blazing glory, such as in his 10 minute No.8. Neuhaus, also, is the only one who actually made the music sound like... and I do think No.10 sounds like the sounds of Egypt and scarabs and mysterious purity of sand...

Been dipping into the Decca 'Mysterium'...

been on the Scriabin train for a  ...month now,... such an arc of trajectory


Scriabin is an addictive drug, so be careful!   $:)  Especially with the Scriabin/Nemtin MYSTERIUM !

Or is too late?!   :o :o :o ??? ??? ???  8)   
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: snyprrr on August 05, 2018, 05:52:55 AM

Scriabin is an addictive drug, so be careful!   $:)  Especially with the Scriabin/Nemtin MYSTERIUM !

Or is too late?!   :o :o :o ??? ??? ???  8)

I've gotten through most of it in the car now... and wow, yea, it's massive, AND YET SEEMS TO JUSTIFY ITS LENGTH!!!- I love the idiom- pre-Denisov dripping/rising- IT MIGHT MAKE ME SEEK OUT R.STRAUSS!!! even...lol

Yes, Scriabin/Nemtin is so advanced if it were truly of the time, it does open up the egocentric/messianic centers of the mind... I liked the piano/organ duet... soooo many textural delights in the whole piece.


MOST OF MY SCRIABIN PURCHASES have been lost in the mail, so I'm having to draggg this whole thing out... haven't even listened to Sonata 7 yet because I've been waiting...

Neihaus is playing 6 7 8 n 10 very very fast, and this is the way I hear these pieces, but we need Pace or Hodges to play them that fast. Normal Pianists are ALL adding two minutes a piece to these works (even Volodos)...


MUST.HAVE.FAST.LATE.SCRIABIN.

FAST.

Again, the greatest single Scriabin I have now heard is the Horowitz 53 Ninth. Shoulda been in the Exorcist!!



Title: Re: Scriabins Temple ETUDES ETUDES ETUDES
Post by: snyprrr on August 05, 2018, 06:02:03 AM
I dunno, I'm finding most of the Etudes, along with most of the Op.11 Preludes, to be a lot of minor key angsty sounding "Romantic" stereotypical bla bla... I just don't care for "piano banging".

When Scriabin gets around to totally transforming the actual nature of the "drammatico...patetico" allegro type style, all the angst transforms into fantastical shapes of movement. With the famouse 8/12 Etude, I just hear something from a film from the 1940s...

Chopin doesn't seem as 'hand on the forehead' as Early/Mid Scriabin, but then, I guess AS was a spoiled brat?


Etude 48/1: I have Ashkenazy- I think I like the piece, but I seem to think Vladmr can't play it as well as, say, LangLang or Volodos. Here is a piece where the tons of notes are "rippling" instead of "pounding/clanking". Scriabin needs all the clarity he can get, and I don't think I want to hear actual struggle with Scriabin, just superhuman virtuosity!

With LangLang, I can appreciate the Pianism, even if I don't like the piece...
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on February 07, 2019, 04:34:43 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyzI-LyXcAEmRDT.jpg)

As @ionarts resumes a regular schedule of #CDReviews, with Charles (#BrieflyNoted) on Saturdays and me on Wednesdays, here's my first contribution to the new routine: Dip Your Ears, No. 223 (Vadym Kholodenko's Scriabin)

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2019/02/dip-your-ears-no-223-vadym-kholodenkos.html …

#DipYourEars (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2019/02/dip-your-ears-no-223-vadym-kholodenkos.html)
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Mirror Image on May 27, 2019, 04:19:13 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyzI-LyXcAEmRDT.jpg)

As @ionarts resumes a regular schedule of #CDReviews, with Charles (#BrieflyNoted) on Saturdays and me on Wednesdays, here's my first contribution to the new routine: Dip Your Ears, No. 223 (Vadym Kholodenko's Scriabin)

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2019/02/dip-your-ears-no-223-vadym-kholodenkos.html …

#DipYourEars (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2019/02/dip-your-ears-no-223-vadym-kholodenkos.html)

I haven’t read your review, but I’ve read some less flattering things about this newer Kholodenko recording.

I suppose I should post this (originally appeared in the ‘Purchases’ thread) -

I’ve recently become rather infatuated with the music of Scriabin, so here’s a few recent purchases:

(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/ACO-12214.jpg) (https://www.nonesuch.com/sites/g/files/g2000005811/f/styles/album_detail__545___545_/public/201611/RUTH%20LAREDO%20Scriabin%20The%20Complete%20Piano%20Sonatas.jpg?itok=4YaCD5dd)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/818P5SnLKQL._SL1500_.jpg) (https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/0724356772052.jpg)

(https://www.chandos.net/artwork/CH9728.jpg)

I own the Scriabin Complete box on Decca, but I’m not too enthralled with the performers involved. No offense to Ashkenazy, who is a fine pianist, he’s not the only answer in Scriabin and I find he lacks a certain nuance in Scriabin’s music. One of the more overrated, IMHO, pianists in the Decca set is Valentina Lisitsa. Who, by the way, ruined Hilary Hahn’s recording of Ives’ Violin Sonatas. I also wanted to get Lettberg’s set for the earlier piano works and so I’ll own works outside of the oft-recorded, Piano Sonatas. Anyway, I also wanted to have a set of the symphonies (even though I already own Svetlanov’s). The Muti set is incredible and, for me, this is one of the landmark sets for these orchestral works.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Cato on November 18, 2019, 03:55:50 PM
Up-and-coming pianist Valere Burnon plays the Scriabin Piano Sonata #2 at a competition.  The performer is also a champion of the post-Scriabin composer Sergei  Protopopov.


https://www.youtube.com/v/Pl5ibSsudAw
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: vers la flamme on November 25, 2019, 03:05:16 AM
Scriabin is one of my favorite composers, as one might be able to deduce from my username here. I am not always receptive to his music, but when I am, it hits hard. I am currently enamored with his early piano concerto, which is not too far removed from the concerti of Tchaikovsky or Rachmaninov; more accurately, it is something like a Russianized Chopin concerto, maybe a little bit more on the impressionistic side. Very beautiful.

Anyone been listening to Scriabin lately? I am due for a new set of the solo piano music, I think. I have been listening to Vladimir Horowitz, these two discs:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71O6f21pjUL._SY355_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51VZqgREE3L._SY355_.jpg)

Both are absolutely amazing, the latter also includes a great Rachmaninov second piano sonata. But I have been thinking of getting the Maria Lettberg integral set lately, if it's still to be had for cheap. Or maybe Dmitri Alexeev playing the Preludes on Brilliant.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: vers la flamme on November 25, 2019, 03:07:14 AM
As for the orchestral music, I'm collecting the Golovschin/Moscow set on Naxos. So far, so good. I also want the Ashkenazy set on Decca, but Golovschin is fine for now. I suspect Muti is probably more than adequate too but I have a strange bias against him as a conductor.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Cato on November 26, 2019, 04:30:27 AM
As for the orchestral music, I'm collecting the Golovschin/Moscow set on Naxos. So far, so good. I also want the Ashkenazy set on Decca, but Golovschin is fine for now. I suspect Muti is probably more than adequate too but I have a strange bias against him as a conductor.

I heard the early symphonies through the Svetlanov recordings from Melodiya in the early 1970's and found them to be most excellent!

The DGG recording with Pletnev conducting the Third Symphony is also excellent.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Madiel on November 27, 2019, 02:09:49 AM
Between them these boxes have given me every opus.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/818P5SnLKQL._SX466_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71a2mdyuEzL._SX466_.jpg)
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Cato on November 27, 2019, 09:13:24 AM
Between them these boxes have given me every opus.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/818P5SnLKQL._SX466_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71a2mdyuEzL._SX466_.jpg)

MARIA LETTBERG!!! Yes, an excellent set!
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: vers la flamme on November 28, 2019, 04:07:24 AM
^I'm going to get that Lettberg set as a Christmas present to myself, I think. Looks great. Plus I could get some newer recordings of Scriabin. I mostly go for the old Russians.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 24, 2020, 05:47:34 PM
I like Lettberg’s set too. She issued an album of posthumous works. While several pieces are significantly Chopin-esque, it is very good album. I also think that Valentina Lisitsa’s set is solid. Ohlsson and Le Van are good too. Listeners maybe divided on Berlinskaya’s performance. I found her rhythm and timing unique. I’m not a big fan of Ponti’s boxes.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Madiel on July 25, 2020, 04:18:10 AM
I like Lettberg’s set too. She issued an album of posthumous works. While several pieces are significantly Chopin-esque, it is very good album. I also think that Valentina Lisitsa’s set is solid. Ohlsson and Le Van are good too. Listeners maybe divided on Berlinskaya’s performance. I found her rhythm and timing unique. I’m not a big fan of Ponti’s boxes.

Ah, I didn't know Lettberg had done an extra album. I will have to check that out.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 25, 2020, 06:13:30 AM
Ah, I didn't know Lettberg had done an extra album. I will have to check that out.

Majority of the works sound like his early, rather than late, works. I don’t know your personal preference, but it is an excellent performance.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 26, 2020, 02:05:21 PM
It seems that Scriabin’s symphonies have not been addressed much on the thread. There are many sets offering all or several Symphonies. While the Muti set is solid, I like the set by Eliahu Inbal with Frankfurt Radio SO. The set offers the 3 Symphonies plus Ecstasy and Prometheus. The performance is dynamic and vivid while maintaining sophistication. The Frankfurt orchestra sounds very versatile. Good recording sound as well. Also, the old recording of No.1-3 by Konstantin Ivanov sounds interesting. The recording quality is fair to good. The No.1 is a live recording and you can hear the noise. I believe Ivanov was the conductor of USSR State SO before Svetlanov. The performance exhibits earthy dynamism and exotic lyricism though it is a little raw and not fully refined. There is an unique aestheticism here. I think the Inbal, Ivanov and Muti sets are my favorite.  Certainly, there are other good recordings as well, including the Jarvi, Svetlanov (Jeffery wrote a liner note), and Golovanov (recommended by Music Turner) sets. The performances by Golovanov are wonderful but the recording sound is poor. The Segerstam set is good/fair while the Petrenko albums are average/mediocre to me.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Madiel on August 26, 2020, 03:09:11 PM
It seems that Scriabin’s symphonies have not been addressed much on the thread. There are many sets offering all or several Symphonies. While the Muti set is solid, I like the set by Eliahu Inbal with Frankfurt Radio SO. The set offers the 3 Symphonies plus Ecstasy and Prometheus. The performance is dynamic and vivid while maintaining sophistication. The Frankfurt orchestra sounds very versatile. Good recording sound as well. Also, the old recording of No.1-3 by Konstantin Ivanov sounds interesting. The recording quality is fair to good. The No.1 is a live recording and you can hear the noise. I believe Ivanov was the conductor of USSR State SO before Svetlanov. The performance exhibits earthy dynamism and exotic lyricism though it is a little raw and not fully refined. There is an unique aestheticism here. I think the Inbal, Ivanov and Muti sets are my favorite.  Certainly, there are other good recordings as well, including the Jarvi, Svetlanov (Jeffery wrote a liner note), and Golovanov (recommended by Music Turner) sets. The performances by Golovanov are wonderful but the recording sound is poor. The Segerstam set is good/fair while the Petrenko albums are average/mediocre to me.

Have you heard Ashkenazy? When I was looking at complete sets the ones that seemed to keep coming up were Muti and Ashkenazy. I went with Ashkenazy for a few reasons, including that it was truly complete (the piano concerto, and Reverie which surprisingly is often not included).

I haven't listened to the whole set as yet, but admit to having mixed feelings about some of the earlier performances.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: vers la flamme on August 26, 2020, 03:20:36 PM
I still need a full set of Scriabin's symphonies, but I'm torn between Ashkenazy and Muti. Both sound great, with the Muti sounding a little bit more lush and romantic, Ashkenazy seeming a bit more tempered or held back. But I'm curious, anyone heard Gergiev/LSO?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 26, 2020, 05:30:39 PM
In general, I don’t like Ashkenazy’s piano or conducting. I don’t like his Scriabin symphonies either. It seems to me, the Gergiev live is mediocre. It is on Youtube, Amazon, etc. I agree with your description of the Muti recording. For dynamism and vibrancy, I like the other two I mentioned. I forgot to mention the Pletnev/Pentatone set, which is very good.

Also, the Kitaenko set is good, if not excellent.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on August 26, 2020, 05:51:21 PM
Only one Scriabin/Ashkenazy disc I listen is the Nemtin work. I don’t think an explanation about the work is necessary to the members here.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Madiel on August 26, 2020, 09:22:40 PM
In general, I don’t like Ashkenazy’s piano or conducting. I don’t like his Scriabin symphonies either.

Okay. Well I do tend to like him in other repertoire that I know him for, so obviously we'd be coming at his Scriabin from different perspectives.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: relm1 on November 03, 2020, 05:19:53 PM
Does anyone have a recording of Scriabin’s opera, “Keistut and Biruta”?  A performance edition was completed by Nemtin and premiered with a private recording from Nemtin, just wondering if anyone has it?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Cato on November 03, 2020, 07:23:04 PM
Does anyone have a recording of Scriabin’s opera, “Keistut and Biruta”?  A performance edition was completed by Nemtin and premiered with a private recording from Nemtin, just wondering if anyone has it?  Thanks.

Check this via YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/v/MyIrm55J2HY
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: MusicTurner on November 04, 2020, 04:03:50 AM
Check this via YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/v/MyIrm55J2HY
¨

Interesting, I never heard about that one, thank you.
BTW that must be a Roerich painting, another interesting fellow with a museum in New York.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: relm1 on November 04, 2020, 07:10:23 AM
Check this via YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/v/MyIrm55J2HY

Thanks so much!
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Madiel on November 04, 2020, 10:28:11 PM
The question is, how much of this Scriabin-Nemtin piece is Scriabin, and how much is Nemtin?

Is it like Debussy-Ortledge works, where the Debussy proportion keeps getting smaller and smaller as Ortledge hunts for more things to complete?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on November 05, 2020, 07:19:56 AM
The question is, how much of this Scriabin-Nemtin piece is Scriabin, and how much is Nemtin?

Is it like Debussy-Ortledge works, where the Debussy proportion keeps getting smaller and smaller as Ortledge hunts for more things to complete?

I tend to separate authenticity, likability, and artistic quality.
I don’t know the opera, but as for Mysterium, it is likable and good music if not an authentic Scriabin work.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple: Kesitut and Birute Part II
Post by: Cato on November 05, 2020, 11:35:42 AM
Part II: only 6 minutes long.


https://www.youtube.com/v/A3vyL4QZ6-k

Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Madiel on November 05, 2020, 01:38:57 PM
I tend to separate authenticity, likability, and artistic quality.
I don’t know the opera, but as for Mysterium, it is likable and good music if not an authentic Scriabin work.

Which wasn’t my question.

You might well separate authenticity. But when people use a composer’s name it is with the deliberate intention of selling the piece as coming from that composer. So it’s a fair question to ask just how authentic that use of a name is, by asking what state the material from well-known composer no.1 was actually in before less well-known composer no.2 came along.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple: Kesitut and Birute Part II
Post by: relm1 on November 05, 2020, 05:01:36 PM
Part II: only 6 minutes long.


https://www.youtube.com/v/A3vyL4QZ6-k

I really like it.  So we only have 18 minutes?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on November 05, 2020, 06:07:54 PM
Which wasn’t my question.

You might well separate authenticity. But when people use a composer’s name it is with the deliberate intention of selling the piece as coming from that composer. So it’s a fair question to ask just how authentic that use of a name is, by asking what state the material from well-known composer no.1 was actually in before less well-known composer no.2 came along.

Yes, that’s certainly a relevant and interesting question.
As for the opera, it sounds less Scriabinesque to me. But it is opera.
Musicologists, or even a computer program, would make a better assessment than mine.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Cato on November 06, 2020, 09:22:28 AM

 
As for the opera, it sounds less Scriabinesque to me. But it is opera.



The sketches are from the 1890's, a time when Scriabin's style was rather different from the era beginning with the Fifth Piano Sonata.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: relm1 on November 06, 2020, 05:10:49 PM
Scriabin had one of the most fascinating trajectories of any composer I can think of.  1 or 2 years separates massive stylistic changes.  All are very interesting and good but quite different.  That is part of why he is such an interesting composer because where he eventually gets to is quite individual and frankly brilliant even if how he got there is somewhat nonsensical.  One thing he has in common with his classmate and contemporary, Rachmaninoff, is I've not heard a single piece of theirs even if it's juvenilia that I didn't like though they took different paths.  I wish he had lived longer and created more but I say the same about Rachmaninoff. 
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on November 07, 2020, 07:56:09 PM
The sketches are from the 1890's, a time when Scriabin's style was rather different from the era beginning with the Fifth Piano Sonata.

That’s very true.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: relm1 on July 15, 2021, 04:48:37 AM
Any suggestions on how to approach the Sonatas or recommended path through them?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Brewski on July 15, 2021, 05:23:41 AM
Any suggestions on how to approach the Sonatas or recommended path through them?

FWIW, I first heard No. 5, by Horowitz (recorded by many people), and then worked forward through the later ones from other artists, before turning to Nos. 1-4. I haven't heard some of the more recent recordings by pianists I admire like Yuja Wang and Daniil Trifonov.

If you're looking for a complete set, the older one by Roberto Szidon (on DG) is quite good, as is the more recent set by Hamelin.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: relm1 on July 15, 2021, 04:09:08 PM
FWIW, I first heard No. 5, by Horowitz (recorded by many people), and then worked forward through the later ones from other artists, before turning to Nos. 1-4. I haven't heard some of the more recent recordings by pianists I admire like Yuja Wang and Daniil Trifonov.

If you're looking for a complete set, the older one by Roberto Szidon (on DG) is quite good, as is the more recent set by Hamelin.

--Bruce

Should I think of them as tone poems for piano?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Brewski on July 15, 2021, 04:51:48 PM
Should I think of them as tone poems for piano?

That's a lovely description, one I might not have thought of. Sure, why not?

--Bruce
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Brewski on July 15, 2021, 05:16:43 PM
PS, stumbled across No. 10 by Yuja Wang, live at the Berlin Philharmonie in 2018, and she has both tenderness and fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VYX05DopGs

--Bruce
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Madiel on July 15, 2021, 05:17:44 PM
Should I think of them as tone poems for piano?

They are sonatas, and as far as I recall they are all in sonata form.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Wanderer on July 15, 2021, 08:27:12 PM
FWIW, I first heard No. 5, by Horowitz (recorded by many people), and then worked forward through the later ones from other artists, before turning to Nos. 1-4. I haven't heard some of the more recent recordings by pianists I admire like Yuja Wang and Daniil Trifonov.

If you're looking for a complete set, the older one by Roberto Szidon (on DG) is quite good, as is the more recent set by Hamelin.

--Bruce

I second the recommendation for the Hamelin set.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Biffo on July 15, 2021, 11:53:58 PM
Any suggestions on how to approach the Sonatas or recommended path through them?

I have the Ashkenazy set (and a few others scattered through recitals). Rather boringly I started at No 1 and went through them sequentially.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Wanderer on July 16, 2021, 06:03:30 AM
…I started at No 1 and went through them sequentially.

I think that’s the best way to go.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Brewski on July 22, 2021, 05:52:22 PM
Today found a live 2015 performance (just posted last August) of Scriabin's Symphony No. 1 with Riccardo Muti, the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, mezzo-soprano Alisa Kolosova, tenor Sergey Skorokhodov, and the CSO Chorus. (Note: audio only.)

Muti has championed this work for years. He takes the symphony totally seriously, even though it's early, written when the composer was 28, and not nearly as harmonically daring as his later efforts. The assembled forces are magnificent, and those who admire Muti's Philadelphia recordings will likely enjoy this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHzX0AcwRds

--Bruce
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: relm1 on July 23, 2021, 03:29:46 PM
Today found a live 2015 performance (just posted last August) of Scriabin's Symphony No. 1 with Riccardo Muti, the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, mezzo-soprano Alisa Kolosova, tenor Sergey Skorokhodov, and the CSO Chorus. (Note: audio only.)

Muti has championed this work for years. He takes the symphony totally seriously, even though it's early, written when the composer was 28, and not nearly as harmonically daring as his later efforts. The assembled forces are magnificent, and those who admire Muti's Philadelphia recordings will likely enjoy this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHzX0AcwRds

--Bruce

That was fantastic!  I'm becoming obsessed with Scriabin.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Brewski on July 24, 2021, 04:25:22 AM
That was fantastic!  I'm becoming obsessed with Scriabin.

Glad you enjoyed it! And Scriabin is an excellent subject to obsess over.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 24, 2021, 05:42:10 AM
That was fantastic!  I'm becoming obsessed with Scriabin.

+1. Excellent presentation.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: SonicMan46 on July 25, 2021, 10:13:12 AM
Any suggestions on how to approach the Sonatas or recommended path through them?

Hi Relm1 - if you just want the Sonatas performed by an exceptional pianist, then Marc-André Hamelin is certainly an outstanding recording and is in my collection; now, if you desire a more 'complete' collection of the piano works, then consider Maria Lettberg, also owned by me - I've attached some reviews that may be of interest.  Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51V1PYQfhWL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71OVa7sY9GL._SL1209_.jpg)
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: relm1 on July 25, 2021, 04:05:25 PM
Hi Relm1 - if you just want the Sonatas performed by an exceptional pianist, then Marc-André Hamelin is certainly an outstanding recording and is in my collection; now, if you desire a more 'complete' collection of the piano works, then consider Maria Lettberg, also owned by me - I've attached some reviews that may be of interest.  Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51V1PYQfhWL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71OVa7sY9GL._SL1209_.jpg)

Thanks, I really appreciate it!  I plan to do a deep dive into this material later this summer so timing is perfect!
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: relm1 on August 27, 2021, 06:22:22 AM
I've really enjoyed Scriabin's piano sonatas.  Very fine composer.  Any recommendations on where to go next in his piano oeuvre?  What would you say is the greatest of his piano works and you haven't heard anything if you haven't heard ___?
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: hvbias on August 27, 2021, 06:31:03 AM
I've really enjoyed Scriabin's piano sonatas.  Very fine composer.  Any recommendations on where to go next in his piano oeuvre?  What would you say is the greatest of his piano works and you haven't heard anything if you haven't heard ___?

Preludes and Mazurkas. You've heard the piano sonatas so that is the best of them.

There are a bunch of less known pieces like the Prelude and Nocturne Op. 9 that are also excellent but I don't know of any recordings of these type of works other than the Maria Lettberg box.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Mirror Image on August 27, 2021, 06:44:44 AM
I've really enjoyed Scriabin's piano sonatas.  Very fine composer.  Any recommendations on where to go next in his piano oeuvre?  What would you say is the greatest of his piano works and you haven't heard anything if you haven't heard ___?

The Preludes are certainly works to hear next. I’m less familiar with the Mazurkas that hvbias mentioned, so I’ll have to investigate these works. Scriabin is an excellent composer and I need to spend more time with his music. The same goes for his contemporary Roslavets.
Title: Re: Scriabins Temple
Post by: Madiel on August 27, 2021, 05:39:57 PM
Add me to the list of people who think the Sonatas are the peak. In the earlier period you certainly have the Preludes (especially the set of 24 in all the keys), in the middle the op.42 Etudes are notable and you also start getting Poems, but really so many of the other piano works are tiny scraps of things and it's hard to single particular ones out.