EJ Moeran

[Irons]

A work new to me - I think I'm right in saying the last recording by Boult - I enjoyed the Parry. I thought his 5th Symphony contained some excellent and novel ideas which belie the image of a staid and boring composer.

Perhaps my expectations were too high but I am not quite as enthusiastic for the Moeran recording as posters here who's judgement I respect. It must be me then, and to be fair I was knackered last night - but not too tired for Parry. I think Jeffrey said he put Sinaisky's interpretation midway between Boult and Dilkes which for me sums it up. I missed the élan, the folksy feel-good factor of Dilkes. Sinaisky is darker, which is just as valid but not what I look for in this work.

[vandermolen]

A work new to me - I think I'm right in saying the last recording by Boult - I enjoyed the Parry. I thought his 5th Symphony contained some excellent and novel ideas which belie the image of a staid and boring composer.

Perhaps my expectations were too high but I am not quite as enthusiastic for the Moeran recording as posters here who's judgement I respect. It must be me then, and to be fair I was knackered last night - but not too tired for Parry. I think Jeffrey said he put Sinaisky's interpretation midway between Boult and Dilkes which for me sums it up. I missed the élan, the folksy feel-good factor of Dilkes. Sinaisky is darker, which is just as valid but not what I look for in this work.

The Dilkes's has a special quality to it - I agree. I will always be attached to that recording as it was my first encounter with the work on LP. I remember that I bought it from the record department at Harrods when, as a student, I was working in the silk department, which was the last place I wanted to be. Still, I  was able to get a staff discount on the Moeran.

[Roasted Swan]

The Dilkes's has a special quality to it - I agree. I will always be attached to that my recording as it was my first encounter with the work on LP. I remember that I bought it from the record department at Harrods when, as a student, I was working in the silk department, which was the last place I wanted to be. Still, I  was able to get a staff discount on the Moeran.

the SILK department.... suits you sir! (do Harrods still have a recorded music department.... any bargains.....??!!)

[vandermolen]

the SILK department.... suits you sir! (do Harrods still have a recorded music department.... any bargains.....??!!)

Haha. I wanted to be in the record dept or the books - so they put me in the silk department - in my student days in my 20s. I hated it as, unlike the experts in the dept, I could not fold up the silk into a neat package but ended up stuffing it into the shopping bag - terrible! But the record dept was great to browse in during my lunch break. I still remember seeing that Dilkes Moeran LP for the first time and wondering what it was like. I took it home and never looked back. It was great fun to finally see it live at the Proms and now have a recording of that memorable evening.

[Irons]

The Dilkes's has a special quality to it - I agree. I will always be attached to that my recording as it was my first encounter with the work on LP. I remember that I bought it from the record department at Harrods when, as a student, I was working in the silk department, which was the last place I wanted to be. Still, I  was able to get a staff discount on the Moeran.

You are posher then me Jeffrey. I worked as a young man at Barkers and after that, Bentalls at Kingston. Both stores are a shadow of their former self.

[vandermolen]

You are posher then me Jeffrey. I worked as a young man at Barkers and after that, Bentalls at Kingston. Both stores are a shadow of their former self.

OT

Not all my student employment was posh Lol. I was briefly employed at a bronze (sculpture) foundry under railway arches in Peckham until I was sacked for incompetence (an unfortunate incident with a swordfish's nose and a rhinoceros's tail); I remember that the whole building shook when a train went over the railway bridge. I then worked in Whiteley's in Bayswater - finally in the Record Department. When I was left alone on the counter I could play what I wanted. It was at the time of 'Saturday Night Fever' (which I was expected to play). Next to the record department was the fashion boutique. I remember a manager coming up to me to let me know that the boutique had made a complaint that I was driving the customers out the shop with my musical taste (Durufle's Requiem at top volume if I remember correctly instead of the Bee-Gees). Oddly enough the store closed down shortly after I left. My Saturday job at school was in the record department of WH Smith in the Earl's Court Road. I remember using my staff discount to buy Boult's EMI boxed set of the Vaughan Williams symphonies on LP. I also remember playing some VW and a Spanish man wanted to know what it was as he loved the music.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Great story, Jeffrey. Long live Duruflé!


On topic:


I listened to the Sinaisky on YT a few days ago. It won't replace the Boult in my affections (don't know the Dilkes), but it's very good indeed. You certainly do hear a lot of detail other conductors never brought out that clearly. A winner!


And the symphony remains a masterpiece.

[vandermolen]

Great story, Jeffrey. Long live Duruflé!


On topic:


I listened to the Sinaisky on YT a few days ago. It won't replace the Boult in my affections (don't know the Dilkes), but it's very good indeed. You certainly do hear a lot of detail other conductors never brought out that clearly. A winner!

And the symphony remains a masterpiece.

Thanks Johan!


I very much agree with your point that the Sinaisky performance brings out considerably more detail than other recordings, which is very much part of its appeal.

You might well enjoy the Dilkes. It is very special I think and quite different to the Boult.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

In honour of our immortal Moeran, I'll listen again. All this talk makes me listen-y.

[Christo]

I remember a manager coming up to me to let me know that the boutique had made a complaint that I was driving the customers out the shop with my musical taste (Durufle's Requiem at top volume if I remember correctly instead of the Bee-Gees).

With a high baritone in the Requiem, nobody will notice the difference. 

[vandermolen]

With a high baritone in the Requiem, nobody will notice the difference. 

[Irons]

OT

Not all my student employment was posh Lol. I was briefly employed at a bronze (sculpture) foundry under railway arches in Peckham until I was sacked for incompetence (an unfortunate incident with a swordfish's nose and a rhinoceros's tail); I remember that the whole building shook when a train went over the railway bridge. I then worked in Whiteley's in Bayswater - finally in the Record Department. When I was left alone on the counter I could play what I wanted. It was at the time of 'Saturday Night Fever' (which I was expected to play). Next to the record department was the fashion boutique. I remember a manager coming up to me to let me know that the boutique had made a complaint that I was driving the customers out the shop with my musical taste (Durufle's Requiem at top volume if I remember correctly instead of the Bee-Gees). Oddly enough the store closed down shortly after I left. My Saturday job at school was in the record department of WH Smith in the Earl's Court Road. I remember using my staff discount to buy Boult's EMI boxed set of the Vaughan Williams symphonies on LP. I also remember playing some VW and a Spanish man wanted to know what it was as he loved the music.

Peckham! You rubbed shoulders with possibly the most famous Londoners, Jeffrey.



You are so lucky. Walking into WH Smith and smelling the vinyl from the record department was like nectar! Strangely no other record store could quite compete for smell. I have a moment of deja vu to this day when I enter Smith's.

[aukhawk]

My ONLY slight query is the sound of the Moeran compared to the Parry from a year earlier. ... In contrast the Parry is near ideal - rich but detailed with warmth and weight.  The Producer and Engineer are listed as the same but I did wonder if - given that the Moeran was broadcast on TV - whether the sound-rig for TV is slightly different than audio only?  Don't get me wrong it is still very good but for my taste not quite as good.  In any case - a genuine joy to hear both... 3 cheers for the BBC!

That was then and this is now:
Sound On Sound: BBC Proms rigging for Radio and TV

Basically a saturation 'flown' rig (suspended from cross-slung wires) is put in prior to the first concert.  That's it for the season, bar a very few stand-mounted spot mics that go in on the night as required.   The slung mics are positioned according to a standard written specification which is 'millimetre-accurate' and subject to ongoing updates. 
By 'saturation' I mean there are an awful lot of mics up there but only a selection are in use for each concert.  The TV mix is separate from the radio mix but generally takes a split feed from the same mics.  Sound for the CD would have been re-mixed later from the archived radio recording.  Interesting that (these days) the TV mix is 5.1 surround, and any stereo the TV viewer may hear is just an automatic (mostly unmonitored) downmix from that 5.1 - a far cry from the days not so long ago when stereo TV sound first became a thing and old-skule sound engineers like me were resisting the Brave New World kicking and screaming.

[vandermolen]

Peckham! You rubbed shoulders with possibly the most famous Londoners, Jeffrey.



You are so lucky. Walking into WH Smith and smelling the vinyl from the record department was like nectar! Strangely no other record store could quite compete for smell. I have a moment of deja vu to this day when I enter Smith's.

Haha - yes, I know what you mean re the 'vinyl smell' at WH Smith. I really miss those days of browsing through record shops.

[Roasted Swan]

That was then and this is now:
Sound On Sound: BBC Proms rigging for Radio and TV

Basically a saturation 'flown' rig (suspended from cross-slung wires) is put in prior to the first concert.  That's it for the season, bar a very few stand-mounted spot mics that go in on the night as required.   The slung mics are positioned according to a standard written specification which is 'millimetre-accurate' and subject to ongoing updates. 
By 'saturation' I mean there are an awful lot of mics up there but only a selection are in use for each concert.  The TV mix is separate from the radio mix but generally takes a split feed from the same mics.  Sound for the CD would have been re-mixed later from the archived radio recording.  Interesting that (these days) the TV mix is 5.1 surround, and any stereo the TV viewer may hear is just an automatic (mostly unmonitored) downmix from that 5.1 - a far cry from the days not so long ago when stereo TV sound first became a thing and old-skule sound engineers like me were resisting the Brave New World kicking and screaming.

Aukhawk - thankyou for that - really interesting and useful.  Part of the reason I attend so few Proms is that the sound in the hall - unless you stand pretty much central and back a bit is really quite poor relative to the price of the tickets for the stalls or boxes!  I took my son to his first Prom a couple of seasons ago - Oslo PO with Petrenko in Shostakovich.  Sat on the side quite near the stage and just listened to any dynamic orchestral attack "slap" back at you off the back wall.  Listening to the same concert later off the radio was much more satisfactory!

[aukhawk]

Sat on the side quite near the stage and just listened to any dynamic orchestral attack "slap" back at you off the back wall.

And if promming you get the choice of standing all night (I remember standing through Mahler 9 (Haitink/CO) being quite an ordeal - memorable though the performance was) or going up into the 'gods' where at least you can take the weight off, but you are about level with the flying saucers - I witnessed Rozhdestvensky/Leningrad PO from there - I mean, the LENINGRAD PHILHARMONIC, just WOW, what a band - the sound had about as much impact as my portable radio in the kitchen.
But then, concert-going, what would you have?  Rock-hard seating (Covent Garden, I've never been, but infamous); - non-existent air conditioning (Free Trade Hall as was - my wife slept through Nigel Kennedy playing Elgar's Violin Concerto - no wonder they converted it to a chain hotel); - lost in transit finding your way in or out (Barbican - so unmemorable I've no idea what the concert was); - minor wardrobe miscalculation spoiling the occasion (Glyndebourne, no I've never been, too risky with my dress sense); - bottle-washing noises after the interval loudly overlaying the pp opening of the London Symphony (Boult conducting - back at the RAH - actually not too disturbing 'live' - a bit like the early morning milk delivery, RVW could have scored it in like Mahler's cowbells - but the noises off picked up ruthlessly on the broadcast, which a friend recorded for me).

As a colleague once observed (also a sound engineer, and more eminent at that time than I would ever be) "I've stopped going to concerts - not enough top" (an acknowledgement of our marked preference to monitor sound in the control rooms with a somewhat presencey or 'toppy' balance).

[kyjo]

Just wanted to put in a word for Moeran's Violin Concerto, especially in this recording:

[asin]B00FNY1HDC[/asin]

The concerto follows a rather unusual moderate-fast-slow structure. Perhaps the reason the concerto is not more popular is because of its rather unassuming first movement, which although filled with pastoral loveliness doesn't contain any particularly striking material. But Moeran really ups the level of inspiration for the next two movements. The second movement (perhaps the only non-finale movement entitled a "Rondo" that I've come across!) is a joyously exhilarating romp inspired by a day at an Irish country fair. Moeran boldly chose to end the work with an extended slow movement, which is movingly poignant and rises to a climax of cathartically intense beauty.

[Irons]

Just wanted to put in a word for Moeran's Violin Concerto, especially in this recording:

[asin]B00FNY1HDC[/asin]

The concerto follows a rather unusual moderate-fast-slow structure. Perhaps the reason the concerto is not more popular is because of its rather unassuming first movement, which although filled with pastoral loveliness doesn't contain any particularly striking material. But Moeran really ups the level of inspiration for the next two movements. The second movement (perhaps the only non-finale movement entitled a "Rondo" that I've come across!) is a joyously exhilarating romp inspired by a day at an Irish country fair. Moeran boldly chose to end the work with an extended slow movement, which is movingly poignant and rises to a climax of cathartically intense beauty.

Your eloquent review is bad news for my wallet! Such a shame that Tasmin Little plans to retire next year. 

[Roasted Swan]

Your eloquent review is bad news for my wallet! Such a shame that Tasmin Little plans to retire next year.

Feeling smug - picked up this recording on Amazon Marketplace very cheaply...... Not yet heard it but I must admit I've NOT enjoyed Little's more recent recordings compared to her early discs.  Not yet listened to this so am interested to see what she makes of the Moeran.......

[J]

Feeling smug - picked up this recording on Amazon Marketplace very cheaply...... Not yet heard it but I must admit I've NOT enjoyed Little's more recent recordings compared to her early discs.  Not yet listened to this so am interested to see what she makes of the Moeran.......

Sweetheart and goodfellow as Tasmin Little and Andrew Davis truly are I loathe their recording of Moeran's Concerto frankly (as I wrote about earlier in this thread).  I won't elaborate details again except to say they just miss all the poignance and every nuance of the work entirely (parts of the recording can be heard on YouTube).   Both Mordkovich and the Lyrita performance are superior on all counts in my judgment (which isn't just an opinion, - even if not definitive).  Sometimes Kyle simply loses his head (and critical faculties at the same time).