I picked this up recently and absolutely love it:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5133A0N158L._AA240_.jpg)
Any ideas where I should go next?
Quote from: bvy on March 01, 2008, 03:33:40 PM
Any ideas where I should go next?
I think you won't regret trying his
Chôros and his
Bachianas Brasileiras next.
And you really should start the Villa-Lobos thread on the Composer Discussion board (or ask one of our kind moderators to move this thread there for you) I think you'll get a lot more feedback there than here.
My favorite Villa-Lobos so far:
Bachianas Brasileiras No. 2: Toccata "Little Train Of The Caipira" (1930)
Goosens, London Symphony Orchestra (Everest)
This is one of the coolest short classical pieces I have, and this version does sound like a train, though not a convincing as Honegger's Pacific 231. In many lesser performances of the Little Train Of The Caipira there is less excitement and no feeling of the train. This is the version to get.
Uirapuru: Ballet (1917)
Stokowski, Stadium Symphony Orchestra Of New York (Everest)
One of my favorite ballets, very modern and exciting, this is the only version I have heard but I love it nevertheless.
Can't comment on the Naxos recording you have as I am not a fan of chamber music, or percussion-poor music.
Hello, and welcome to the GMG Forum - hope that you'll enjoy the people here & the threads - :D
Villa-Lobos was an extremely prolific composer who wrote in many different genres, so I guess you might want to give the forum some idea of your 'classical music' preferences, e.g. chamber, orchestral, vocal, etc.? Might help to make more specific suggestions - I did a search for some threads on V-L, but did not find much (probably a number were present on the 'old' forum?).
But just a general listing of some of the works of his that I own: Bachianas, Choros, Chamber Works, Piano Music & Concertos, Guitar Music, & String Quartets - let us know 'what' you might prefer and more specific recommendations can be made - :)
Quote from: Teresa on March 01, 2008, 06:31:49 PM
My favorite Villa-Lobos so far:
Have you tried his
Chôros #10, Teresa? I have the feeling that you'd love it.
Quote from: bvy on March 01, 2008, 03:33:40 PM
I picked this up recently and absolutely love it:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5133A0N158L._AA240_.jpg)
Any ideas where I should go next?
Try the beautiful symphony cycle on CPO. :)
For the curious, there is a six disc box set on EMI of the man himself conducting his own music - it includes many of the most important works, and it's available at bargain prices, I think (it was when I bought it). Interesting listening, but you need to supplement it with other readings, as the performances and recordings leave a lot to be desired.
Yes, here it is - £11.10 in the Amazon marketplace at the moment (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Villa-L%C3%B4bos-Conducts-Heitor-Villa-Lobos/dp/B000002SBL/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1204446813&sr=1-6)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41TPJK1E6ZL._AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: bvy on March 01, 2008, 03:33:40 PM
I picked this up recently and absolutely love it:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5133A0N158L._AA240_.jpg)
Any ideas where I should go next?
Definitely
Bachianas Brasileiras , also available on Naxos (don't know how good performance it is, I have Bátiz on EMI).
(http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9631/514gyo4wyqlaa240qp9.jpg) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Villa-L%C3%B4bos-Ch%C3%B4ros-No-11-Piano-Orchestra/dp/B00000G4OH/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1204447298&sr=1-1)
Choros No. 11 is a wonderful work for piano and orchestra. This Finnish production on ONDINE is superb.
This CD has never been too far from my player in the last year. I'm particularly fond of the Sinfonietta (1916), a fun bit of neoclassicism based on themes by Mozart, but the Symphony No. 7 (1945) is excellent, too. Here's a pretty good review (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Apr04/Villa_Lobos7.htm), although the writer focuses more on the symphony.
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Mar04/Villa-Lobos_7_9997132_PSh.jpg)
--Bruce
Thanks for all the great responses. I'm checking out
Bachianas Brasileiras 2-4 on Napster right now.
Quote from: SonicMan on March 01, 2008, 06:58:19 PM
Hello, and welcome to the GMG Forum - hope that you'll enjoy the people here & the threads - :D
Villa-Lobos was an extremely prolific composer who wrote in many different genres, so I guess you might want to give the forum some idea of your 'classical music' preferences, e.g. chamber, orchestral, vocal, etc.? Might help to make more specific suggestions - I did a search for some threads on V-L, but did not find much (probably a number were present on the 'old' forum?).
Thanks for the welcome, and, yes, all those are my preference. Seriously, I'm leaning more toward chamber music lately, but I love vocal, symphonic and keyboard music as well. I guess I'm still exploring too much to be too exclusive of any composer, period, or instrumentation. Along the other axis, though, I love early and Baroque music, and the late Romantic period into 20th Century music. I guess I'm not leaving out much there either -- the Classical period maybe (rumor has it that there really is more to the Classical period than Haydn and Mozart).
I'm liking what I hear while I type -- no. 2 of the aforementioned piece. Somewhat surprised (in a good way!) to hear a saxophone...
Do also try some piano music.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EYECQNXZL._AA240_.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/Villa-Lobos-Piano-Works-Heitor/dp/B00009RAXC (http://www.amazon.com/Villa-Lobos-Piano-Works-Heitor/dp/B00009RAXC)
Quote from: Iconito on March 01, 2008, 11:17:54 PM
Have you tried his Chôros #10, Teresa? I have the feeling that you'd love it.
Thanks I played a streaming audio clip at Amazon sounds like it is a very exciting piece. :D
I also found these Villa-Lobos links as well:
The Villa Lobos website http://www.villalobos.ca/ (http://www.villalobos.ca/)
The Villa-Lobos Magazine http://villa-lobos.blogspot.com/ (http://villa-lobos.blogspot.com/)
I happened on Villa-Lobos on an LP in the remaindering rack of The Quintette en forme de Choros performed by the New York Wind Quintet, an adaptation of the original that was for Fl Ob CA (Eng Horn) Cl and Bn, substituting the CA with a horn. It grabbed me. (It's since been reissued by Boston Skyline. In spite of its age it holds out well.)
I've heard many other recorded performances of this Quintette but none has the atmosphere of the NY Wind Quintet. The William Bennett and Friends CD (Hyperion) is the next closest (retaining the original scoring). That CD also includes the best recording I've heard of his Trio for Oboe Clarinet and Bassoon. Like most of his work, these pieces must be exhausting to play. If anything characterises Villa-Lobos' music, it's difficult.
Another interesting one is the Fantasia Concertante for 32 cellos. It seems to have received only one performance by the New York Cello Society. The recording was poor and the playing a bit off in places. Originally on an Everest LP it was transcribed to CD on a Brazillian label.
But all his work, weak or strong holds some interest for me except, ironically, his guitar music.
Quote from: Anacho on March 15, 2008, 11:36:02 AM
Like most of his work, these pieces must be exhausting to play. If anything characterises Villa-Lobos' music, it's difficult.
Certainly you mean difficult to play. The chamber music collection I mentioned when I opened this thread is one of the most calming yet engaging pieces of music I've heard recently -- i.e.
very easy to listen to.
Quote from: Anacho on March 15, 2008, 11:36:02 AM
Another interesting one is the Fantasia Concertante for 32 cellos.
Now
that sounds difficult!
I wonder if Villa-Lobos wrote much vocal music...
Quote from: bvy on March 19, 2008, 04:20:33 PM
I wonder if Villa-Lobos wrote much vocal music...
He used voices in different contexts. In that of 'calming chamber music' there's the Quartet for Flute Saxophone Harp Celeste and (wordless) female chorus - dreamy and somewhat Debussian. I think he also uses voices in the Nonette.
He wrote some part-songs and ecclesiastical stuff - Hyperion CDA66638 has a representative selection including Bedita Sabedoria, a Magnificat and his Missa Sao Sebastiao.
Many songs with various accompaniments including orchestra. Some of the best are found in the 'Forest of the Amazon' suite - the version originally recorded with Villa-Lobos conducting and Bidu Sayao is the one to look out for. It's one of few satisfactory performances under his own baton and it's excellent. Another is his large scale 'Cancao des Aguas Claras.
But the most well-known is the Bachianas Brasileiras No 5. The first part sounds a little Bach-like (as was the intention with this series) though it's written in 5/4. Part 2 is livelier in the manner of Brazil. You'll probably have heard this work by now.
A few of his works include choir(s) - the Choros No 10, the Discovery of Brazil Suite (Part 4), his 10th Symphony (the version recently released by Carl St Clair with the Stuttgard SO is definitely the best).
There's just a few. Villa-Lobos eventually won a government post thanks to a revolution and wrote music for educational purposes - the Guia Practica (I think). The few pieces I've heard in this line haven't really snared me but you may like some of the songs.
cheers.
Villa-Lobos was a cellist and wrote a few pieces for groups of cellos. The most famous are the "Bachianas Brasileiras" Nos 1 and 5, using an octet of cellos, the 5th with a soprano, of course.
If you'd like an intro to his "Choros", there's an excellent CD of Nos 1 - 7 - including an 8th "Introduction to the Choros" (1929). ASV CD DCA1150 - Orquesta Filharmonica de Gran Canaria / Adrian Leaper. A little misleading because the Choros range from solo guitar (No 1) to huge orchestral pieces. The "Introduction", and the 6th are the orchestral pieces here and I must confess, IMHO this recording of the 6th is one of the better ones - not too hurried and allowing the long cantilena in Part 2 time to make itself felt. I'm not grabbed by all the Choros but they do demonstrate his range of technique during his most creative period. And the performances here are well-enough polished.
I see that BIS has just started a multi-volume series of the Choros and I'll be looking at them.
Quote from: bvy on March 01, 2008, 03:33:40 PM
Any ideas where I should go next?
Schermerhorn's last recordings, a complete set of the nine Bachianas Brasileiras, is totally enjoyable. Last year, they made me discover that I always overlooked some of the finest, as they tend to be the lesser well-known. My favourite Bachianas Brasileiras now being, thanks to this set: nos. 4, 7, 8. Highly recommended!
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Dec05/villa-lobos_BB_855746062.gif)
Quote from: Anacho on March 21, 2008, 09:33:10 AM
I see that BIS has just started a multi-volume series of the Choros and I'll be looking at them.
If the BIS series, with the São Paulo Symphony Orchestra under John Neschling, is just as good as their Guarnieri cycle with the same forces, it will be something special indeed. I ordered for the first one and hope to play them all, in time. The series is in three volumes:
CD1 with Chôros No. 6 for orchestra, Chôros No. 1 for guitar, Chôros No. 8 for large orchestra and two pianos, Chôros No. 4 for three horns and trombone, Chôros No. 9 for orchestra.
CD2 with Chôros No.11 for piano and orchestra, Chôros No. 5 'Alma Brasileira' for piano, Chôros No. 7 'Settimino' for winds, violin and cello.
CD3 with Introduction to the Chôros for guitar, Two Chôros bis for violin and cello, Chôros No. 2 for flute and clarinet, Chôros No. 3, "Pica-Pau" for orchestra, Chôros No. 10 `Rasga o coração' for chorus and orchestra, Chôros No. 12 for orchestra.
(http://www.bis.se/images/covers/BIS-CD-1450_72_150.jpg)(http://www.bis.se/images/covers/BIS-CD-1440_72_150.jpg)(http://www.naxos.com/SharedFiles/Images/cds/others/BIS-CD-1520.gif)
Quote from: SonicMan on March 01, 2008, 06:58:19 PMVilla-Lobos was an extremely prolific composer who wrote in many different genres, so I guess you might want to give the forum some idea of your 'classical music' preferences, e.g. chamber, orchestral, vocal, etc.? Might help to make more specific suggestions - I did a search for some threads on V-L, but did not find much (probably a number were present on the 'old' forum?).
Quote from: Anacho on March 21, 2008, 09:33:10 AMVilla-Lobos was a cellist and wrote a few pieces for groups of cellos. The most famous are the "Bachianas Brasileiras" Nos 1 and 5, using an octet of cellos, the 5th with a soprano, of course.
The best starter available IMO - and one that may be rather inexpensive - is Michael Tilson Thomas conducting the very best Bachianas Brasileiras, namely Nos. 4, 5 (with Renée Fleming, soprano, and the octet of celloos mentioned by Anacho) 7, 9 and the glorious Chôros No. 10, 'Rasga o coração' (with choir).
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512PC6VQJBL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Go6%2BXp%2BLL._AA240_.jpg)
The Symphonies did not make a great impression on me. But the Chôros series on BIS is wonderful. Well worth checking out. # 1, which is a huge sprawling yet always interesting piano concerto, is definitely one of his best works.
Quote from: Christo on April 06, 2008, 04:41:13 AM
Schermerhorn's last recordings, a complete set of the nine Bachianas Brasileiras, is totally enjoyable. Last year, they made me discover that I always overlooked some of the finest, as they tend to be the lesser well-known. My favourite Bachianas Brasileiras now being, thanks to this set: nos. 4, 7, 8. Highly recommended!
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Dec05/villa-lobos_BB_855746062.gif)
I have been getting into Villa-Lobos with the ultra cheap Naxos series also......I am just now "discovering" the world of Villa-Lobos
There is a whole series of solo piano works Cds on Naxos that I have been buying up:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51uZ4EEeLlL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/415N%2BfLdEEL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yz%2B86T0nL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Also looks like CPO will release 7CD boxset of symphonies later this month, I will be a buyer
(http://www.rdpl.org/images/sym-cover.jpg)
Is there seriously no Villa-Lobos thread until now???
Cello Concertos, anyone?
Plenty of Villa-Lobos fans here - we must have had our minds elsewhere - e.g. Haydn's SQs - ;) :D
Check out this link in the old forum HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,6674.0.html) - plenty of recommendations made at that time; not sure 'what' I've added to those listings since then - not home to look! :)
Quote from: SonicMan on November 02, 2009, 12:18:05 PM
Plenty of Villa-Lobos fans here - we must have had our minds elsewhere - e.g. Haydn's SQs - ;) :D
Check out this link in the old forum HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,6674.0.html) - plenty of recommendations made at that time; not sure 'what' I've added to those listings since then - not home to look! :)
Sonic
I will spend more time digesting my recent Villa-Lobos expansion and most likely get the 7CD complete symphony boxset mentioned a couple posts prior........then if all goes well I have my eye on this 7CD BIS label boxset:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61f9OnezgRL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Have you tried any of those solo piano work CDs on Naxos label?
Re the EMI set with Villa-Lobos conducting.
CHECK DISC 6 FIRST! I finally got a 4th set that had the right one. V-L did not write "Rustle of Spring" and other pop favorites that occupied disc 6 in 3 sets.
Quote from: DarkAngel on November 02, 2009, 04:19:00 PM
Sonic
I will spend more time digesting my recent Villa-Lobos expansion and most likely get the 7CD complete symphony boxset mentioned a couple posts prior........then if all goes well I have my eye on this 7CD BIS label boxset:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61f9OnezgRL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Have you tried any of those solo piano work CDs on Naxos label?
Hello
DA - currently, I own nearly 2 dozen CDs of
Villa-Lobos recordings, so just much to be recommended, and I may have just scratched the surface of this prolific composer! ;D
I guess that my 'starter suggestions' would be multi-CD sets:
String Quartets (6-discs) &
Bachianas Brasileiras (3-CDs):
(http://www.popsdiscos.com.br/images/uploads/2CDS)%20STRING%20QUARTETS%20VILLA%20LOBOS.jpg) (http://www.classicalarchives.com/images/coverart/9/d/7/0/747313246021_300.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41WYX29DNTL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Concerning
Piano Works, the 2-CD set of
Piano Concertos (pic above) w/
Christina Ortiz is recommended; in addition I have the 3 discs below on Naxos w/ Sonia Rubinsky; however, this collection does not completely exhaust my other works by this composer, but a good start! Dave :D
(http://www.villalobos.ca/images/pianomusicv7.jpg) (http://images.bluebeat.com/an/3/4/2/0/1/l10243.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51uZ4EEeLlL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: snyprrr on November 02, 2009, 11:40:20 AM
Is there seriously no Villa-Lobos thread until now???
Cello Concertos, anyone?
The two cello concertos and the Fantasia for cello and orchestra (effectively another one) are all attractive works, very atmospheric, but all are ultimately unmemorable and too meandering to hold lasting appeal or a place in the repertoire. The first concerto is rather grand in its romantic gestures. Not first rate Villa Lobos. If you want Villa Lobos with cello works stick with Bachianas Brasilieras nos.1 and 5 and the absolutely gorgeous arrangements of the Bach 48 for 8 and 9 cellos.
Quote from: Guido on November 03, 2009, 02:53:00 AM
ultimately unmemorable and too meandering to hold lasting appeal or a place in the repertoire.
mmm,...V-L not the only composer of his generation to suffer from this malady...
Villa-Lobos String QuartetsWhich brings me to the
SQs. A long time ago I got the
Bessler-Ries Quartet playing 4/5/6, and that has been a fav ever since.
No.5 is in my top 10, around
Janacek and
Bartok No.3.Bessler-Ries recorded the beginning and end of the V-L SQs for
Chant du Monde, and then completed the middle for
Kaurup in Brazil (with a different group headed by the cellist Ries), making this the only true Brazilian cycle. I don't remember the
Quarteto Latinoamerica's performances, though I can't imagine much difference between the two sets. I am perfectly happy with this one, and I can imagine that in terms of sheer finesse, the Bessler-Ries might take the palm here. Their recordings are pretty special, to my ears. There is also a cycle by the
Danubius Qrt. on
Marco Polo that got great reviews in the old
Penguin.The SQs are pretty homogenous as a set (as opposed to, say, Milhaud's 18). Especially towards the end, V-L, though never "boring", can be spectacularly unmemorable.
The first B-R disc,
1/2/3, chart V-L's progress from suite (No.1), to fully fledged Brazilian masterpiece (No.3).
No.3, in particular, sounds like the perfect Brazilian impressionism, very languid and exotic and lush. Beautiful!
SQs
12-17 chart V-L's post-war progression into Haydnesque serialism (Haydn being V-L's inspiration), which I find a perfect application of Schoenbergian style (yea, with a whooole lot more charm, trust me!).
No.16 has V-L's most desolately haunting slow mvmt. All, though pretty interchangeably unmemorable, have a spunky spikiness that is very winning.
The middle quartets,
7-11, finally appeared on Kaurup after many years of leaving the cycle incomplete. I had been waiting to hear how V-L bridged the earlier SQ's Brazilian folksiness with the latter SQ's neo-classic serialismo.
No.7 stands as the monster of the bunch, a 45min. Blochian/Bachian exercise in composition. It's ok, but I do like
Bloch's No.1 better.
No.8, along with
Milhaud's No.5, is a great exercise in Schoenberian style, V-L's first, and has some great, great late '30s ideas. This one gets my vote for best Schoenberg! V-L NEVER lets the fun out of the bag, as others did with their take on Schoenebrg.
9-10 I found the weakest of the bunch (along with maybe 1-2, and some of the later ones (no, this cycle is for pretty much enjoyment only, not some great thesis,... V-L LOVED writing SQs, period)). However,
No.11 stands as the last great "Brazilian" SQ. It has the best parts of 3/5/6 rolled into a great tropical canvas of transportative ideas.
In all, one of the highlights, and most often listened to, cyles of 20th century SQs in the library. Consistency and accessability and fun are V-L's hallmarks in these SQs, not to mention one of the greatest nationalistic music styles ever.
No.5 is a certified masterpiece in my book, and the general quality here is extremely high. Even the ones I don't like all that much are cool to listen to.
I'll be honest though. V-L can be a black hole of obsessive collecting, so I choose to keep my distance! The
wind disc on Hyperion is a must, and the
Sextetto Mistico is on my list. Many of the other high points have been listed. Yes, V-L was certainly a true musician!
btw- his progressive style in the '40s and '50s made him a leader of the post neo-classical "universal" style that was emerging in the '50s. Malipiero, Bloch, and many other composers started on a similar strain in the '50s, and, I think that V-L epitomizes the universal charm that this style was meant to have. I call it the "UN" style, haha, and, political considerations aside, it WAS a new world back then. Anyhow, viva la Villa!
Whew! :P
I've become curious about Villa-Lobos' string quartets. Did not realize he wrote 17 of them :o, the same number as another composer who had a knack of writing a good SQ here and there. ;)
How many 'complete editions' are there of the string quartets? I noticed Dave just posted a set up above.
Quote from: Brahmsian on November 26, 2009, 09:11:37 AM
I've become curious about Villa-Lobos' string quartets. Did not realize he wrote 17 of them :o, the same number as another composer who had a knack of writing a good SQ here and there. ;)
How many 'complete editions' are there of the string quartets? I noticed Dave just posted a set up above.
Ray - I'm not sure - the same group also appears under the Dorian label; but I suspect that you can count the number of 'complete' sets on one hand (and one w/ probably w/ a few missing fingers! ;D).
I was able to pick up the Brilliant box on BRO for around $25 (if I recall) - just a fabulous bargain - these performances are superb, and I find VL's SQ writing some of the most enjoyable in the 20th century (and I do have a couple sets each of Bartok & Shosty) - Dave :)
1) Quartet Bessler-Ries 1-6. 12-17 Chant du Monde, and Amazonia Quartet 7-11 Kaurup
2) Quarteto Latinoamerico 1-17 Dorian/Brilliant
3) Danubius Quartet 1-17 Marco Polo
Quote from: Brahmsian on November 26, 2009, 09:11:37 AM
Did not realize he wrote 17 of them...
That's not much for such a
prolific composer as Villa-Lobos.
Villa-Lobos is one of my favorite composers. Many people seem to just listen to his "Bachianas Brasileiras" and don't get past these compositions, which is truly a shame, because I don't think the "Bachianas" are anywhere near his best works. Since I'm talking about the "Bachianas," the only ones that really resonated with me were Nos. 2 and 3. I find his best music is when he looks more to his own country for inspiration. Works like "Genesis," "Erosao," "Amazonas," "Uirapuru," "Ruda," "Danca dos mosquitos," and "Danca frenetica" are perfect examples of his magnificent composing. Villa-Lobos does an ingenius job at luring the listener in with a seductive melody, but once those primal Brazilian rhythms come in he throws the listener right into the middle of a forbidden jungle where you're left to fend for yourself.
I ususally refer listeners to his "Choros" compositional series first. This is Villa-Lobos in prime form. From the "Choros," I would suggest listeners get into the symphonic poems, ballets, and then work your way through the symphonies, string quartets, and piano music. He's really a fine composer and more people would probably like him, but I think people are pretty closed-minded when it comes to Latin American composers in general. Why this is? I have no idea, but I can only hope that these composers get more concert performances in the years to come.
Quote from: SonicMan on November 02, 2009, 06:10:44 PM
Hello DA - currently, I own nearly 2 dozen CDs of Villa-Lobos recordings, so just much to be recommended, and I may have just scratched the surface of this prolific composer! ;D
I own around 50 Villa-Lobos recordings, but I'm also counting discs in the various box sets. I'm pretty much done collecting Villa-Lobos. There's supposed to be a new recording coming out on BIS with John Neschling and the Sao Paulo Symphony Orch. next week (June 29). The composition they perform is the wonderful "Forest of the Amazon." As much as I love the classic Alfred Heller recording with Renee Fleming and the Moscow Radio Symphony, I have been really wanting to hear another interpretation of this work. Any thoughts on this work?
Quote from: Guido on November 03, 2009, 02:53:00 AM
The two cello concertos and the Fantasia for cello and orchestra (effectively another one) are all attractive works, very atmospheric, but all are ultimately unmemorable and too meandering to hold lasting appeal or a place in the repertoire. The first concerto is rather grand in its romantic gestures. Not first rate Villa Lobos. If you want Villa Lobos with cello works stick with Bachianas Brasilieras nos.1 and 5 and the absolutely gorgeous arrangements of the Bach 48 for 8 and 9 cellos.
I find his cello works, which includes "Bachianas Nos. 1 and 5," both "Cello Concertos," and "Fantasia for Cello and Orchestra" to be some of his weakest compositions, which is interesting because he played the cello quite well I heard.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 22, 2010, 08:29:19 PM
wonderful "Forest of the Amazon." As much as I love the classic Alfred Heller recording with Renee Fleming and the Moscow Radio Symphony, I have been really wanting to hear another interpretation of this work. Any thoughts on this work?
I've got somewhere the vinyl, and recently saw the CD - Bidu Sayao, conducted by Stokowsky on the United Artists label. If it's still at my local b&m, do you want the web address?
Quote from: listener on June 22, 2010, 08:56:57 PM
I've got somewhere the vinyl, and recently saw the CD - Bidu Sayao, conducted by Stokowsky on the United Artists label. If it's still at my local b&m, do you want the web address?
Thanks listener, but I'm not a big fan of Stokowski's recordings --- most of which boasts terrible mono. I guess I should have said I'm waiting to hear another modern interpretation of this work that's in stereo. :)
I'm embarrassed to admit that out of a collection of several thousand CDs, I do not (to my knowledge) have a single piece by Villa Lobos represented in my collection. ???
Quote from: Scarpia on June 22, 2010, 09:04:21 PM
I'm embarrassed to admit that out of a collection of several thousand CDs, I do not (to my knowledge) have a single piece by Villa Lobos represented in my collection. ???
This is not so surprising, because most people let Latin American composers slip through the cracks and Villa-Lobos is no exception. :D
If you would like any recommendations, then please don't hesitate to ask. I will be glad to help you.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 22, 2010, 09:05:23 PM
This is not so surprising, because most people let Latin American composers slip through the cracks and Villa-Lobos is no exception. :D
If you would like any recommendations, then please don't hesitate to ask. I will be glad to help you.
To be honest, I am repelled by the "Spanish" music of Ravel, and this has left me unenthusiastic for actual Latin music.
Quote from: Scarpia on June 22, 2010, 09:13:22 PM
To be honest, I am repelled by the "Spanish" music of Ravel, and this has left me unenthusiastic for actual Latin music.
What music have you heard from actual Latin American composers? There's a huge difference between Spanish and Latin American composers. There's also a huge difference between Ravel's view of Spain and actual Spanish music.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 22, 2010, 08:33:49 PM
I find his cello works, which includes "Bachianas Nos. 1 and 5," both "Cello Concertos," and "Fantasia for Cello and Orchestra" to be some of his weakest compositions, which is interesting because he played the cello quite well I heard.
I also find his cello concertos and the Fantasia disappointing. I am also not a big fan of his piano concertos while a number of my friends think they are very good. Thank goodness that he wrote so much music that there is something there for everyone.
A very interesting thread. I posses Villa Lobos string quartetts ( from Brilliant) and his Bachianas Brasilieras and some other works from Emi ( Batiz).
The string quartetts were my first buy. There was a string quartett I liked but I can't claim to have listened to these works profoundly, most of it appeared to me not memorable.
Then I bought the Bachianas Brasilieras and up to now I am pretty enthusiastic. I can't believe that these should be one of his weaker works as has to be said here ( but I can't judge of course). I like his 1st ( astonishing that it's so colouful with only celli), even more so his 2nd ( marvelous sound from the saxophone ), the 3rd appeared more difficult but rewardingly so, the 4th is great, the 5th.
My impression of Villa Lobos: Sometimes he appears not very memorable but at his best his music is really refreshing.
The point is of course always that there is really too much good music to listen to, but I think Villa-Lobos is really an interesting composer.
Regards
Martin
Quote from: UB on June 23, 2010, 06:12:09 AM
I also find his cello concertos and the Fantasia disappointing. I am also not a big fan of his piano concertos while a number of my friends think they are very good. Thank goodness that he wrote so much music that there is something there for everyone.
I, too, am not impressed with his piano concertos, but the 3rd is probably the best of the lot. Yes, Villa-Lobos wrote a lot of music well over 1500 compositions, so yes, there is something for everybody in his large output. Like I have said, I think his ballets, symphonic poems, and the "Choros" are his best works. I also really enjoy Symphony Nos. 3, 4, 6, and 10. His string quartets are also enjoyable as is his piano music.
Quote from: Martin Lind on June 23, 2010, 07:02:33 AM
A very interesting thread. I posses Villa Lobos string quartetts ( from Brilliant) and his Bachianas Brasilieras and some other works from Emi ( Batiz).
The string quartetts were my first buy. There was a string quartett I liked but I can't claim to have listened to these works profoundly, most of it appeared to me not memorable.
Then I bought the Bachianas Brasilieras and up to now I am pretty enthusiastic. I can't believe that these should be one of his weaker works as has to be said here ( but I can't judge of course). I like his 1st ( astonishing that it's so colouful with only celli), even more so his 2nd ( marvelous sound from the saxophone ), the 3rd appeared more difficult but rewardingly so, the 4th is great, the 5th.
My impression of Villa Lobos: Sometimes he appears not very memorable but at his best his music is really refreshing.
The point is of course always that there is really too much good music to listen to, but I think Villa-Lobos is really an interesting composer.
Regards
Martin
You've made some very interesting points, Martin. One of the things you have to remember is that there are good and bad Villa-Lobos performances. The Enrique Batiz set of "Bachianas Brasileiras" aren't that convincing to my ears, especially when better performances with more superior audio exists like John Neschling/Sao Paulo Symphony Orch. on BIS and Kenneth Schemerhorn/Nashville Symphony Orch. on Naxos. The quality and authority of these performances are truly amazing.
You have to remember if the performance isn't convincing enough, then it's not going to give full justice to the composer. Enrique Batiz is a good conductor, but he's not a good Villa-Lobos conductor. Batiz is better in Spanish music than he is Latin American music. He doesn't possess the kind of edge that is required to pull of a work by Chavez, Revueltas, Villa-Lobos, or Ginastera.
Also that Brilliant Classics box set you own is one of the lowest rated Villa-Lobos box sets available. I forget which string quartet perform in that box, but they pale in comparison with the Latinoamericano Quartet on Dorian. I'm not sure if you want to spend any more money on these works, but this is the box set that I highly recommend:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511de7gVPIL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
You will find that the performances in this set are more authentic and convincing.
Have you heard any of his "Choros" or ballets and symphonic poems like "Genesis," "Ruda," or "Uirapuru"? How about any of his symphonies? There's a whole wealth of great music to explore. If you need any recommendations regarding anything Villa-Lobos, then please don't hesitate to ask.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 23, 2010, 08:23:10 AMYou will find that the performances in this set are more authentic and convincing.
Sold!
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 23, 2010, 08:23:10 AM
Also that Brilliant Classics box set you own is one of the lowest rated Villa-Lobos box sets available. I forget which string quartet perform in that box, but they pale in comparison with the Latinoamericano Quartet on Dorian. I'm not sure if you want to spend any more money on these works, but this is the box set that I highly recommend:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511de7gVPIL._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61N6GM3DP5L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
You will find that the performances in this set are more authentic and convincing.
Well, I have the Brilliant Box - the performers are the
Cuarteto Latinamericano, licensed from the Dorian label - love those works & this recording of them! :D
But I must say that my V-L collection needs to be tweaked & updated (or added to?) - so will look forward to this re-activated thread - Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan on June 23, 2010, 08:42:18 AM
Well, I have the Brilliant Box - the performers are the Cuarteto Latinamericano, licensed from the Dorian label - love those works & this recording of them! :D
So, wait, the Brilliant box has the same performances as the Dorian?
Quote from: MN Dave on June 23, 2010, 08:46:12 AM
So, wait, the Brilliant box has the same performances as the Dorian?
Yes,
David - would I tell you a fib! ;D Dave
Quote from: SonicMan on June 23, 2010, 08:50:18 AM
Yes, David - would I tell you a fib! ;D Dave
No, sir, you would not.
Quote from: SonicMan on June 23, 2010, 08:42:18 AM
Well, I have the Brilliant Box - the performers are the Cuarteto Latinamericano, licensed from the Dorian label - love those works & this recording of them! :D
But I must say that my V-L collection needs to be tweaked & updated (or added to?) - so will look forward to this re-activated thread - Dave :)
You are absolutely correct. My mistake. Sorry about that. I was thinking about the Marco Polo releases of the string quartets. Anyway, the newly released Dorian set is remastered and includes a DVD where the Latinoamericano Quartet perform "String Quartet No. 1" and talk about performing and recording the Villa-Lobos string quartets.
Also I do not own the Brilliant set, I own the Dorian one. Sorry for the confusion everybody.
Quote from: Scarpia on June 22, 2010, 09:04:21 PM
I'm embarrassed to admit that out of a collection of several thousand CDs, I do not (to my knowledge) have a single piece by Villa Lobos represented in my collection. ???
My collection of classical music consists of maybe 900 CDs and I have these recordings of Villa-Lobos:
Complete Music for Solo Guitar - Naxos
Piano Music Volume 1 - Naxos
Chamber Music - Naxos
Chôros Nos. 2, 3, 10 & 12 - BIS
Chôros Nos. 8 & 9 - Naxos
Chôros No. 11 - Ondine
Cello Concertos - MDG
Symphonies Nos. 6 & 8 - CPO
Discovery of Brazil, Suites Nos. 1-4 - Marco Polo
The 5 Piano Concertos - Decca 2CD
Symphony No. 10 "Amerindia" - Harmonia Mundi
Bachianas Brasileiras & Guitar Concerto - EMI 3CD
String Quartets (Complete) - Brilliant Classics 6CD
String Quartets 1-3 - Kuarup Discos
String Quartets 15-17 - Kuarup Discos
The Kuarup Discos CDs were donated to me by my Brazilian working pal who gave away stuff before going back to Brazilia. I seem to prefer orchestral music by Villa-Lobos and I admire his colourful use of orchestra. My most favorite works are Bachianas Brasileiras Nos. 3, 4 and 7. I bought the complete String Quartets boxset because of the rave reviews everywhere this forum included but I haven't warmed up to it as much as I expected.
I think the availability of Villa-Lobos' music on CD has improved much over the last 10 years. It's a good thing because this is a very important composer we are talking about.
Quote from: 71 dB on June 23, 2010, 09:05:30 AM
My collection of classical music consists of maybe 900 CDs and I have these recordings of Villa-Lobos:
Complete Music for Solo Guitar - Naxos
Piano Music Volume 1 - Naxos
Chamber Music - Naxos
Chôros Nos. 2, 3, 10 & 12 - BIS
Chôros Nos. 8 & 9 - Naxos
Chôros No. 11 - Ondine
Cello Concertos - MDG
Symphonies Nos. 6 & 8 - CPO
Discovery of Brazil, Suites Nos. 1-4 - Marco Polo
The 5 Piano Concertos - Decca 2CD
Symphony No. 10 "Amerindia" - Harmonia Mundi
Bachianas Brasileiras & Guitar Concerto - EMI 3CD
String Quartets (Complete) - Brilliant Classics 6CD
String Quartets 1-3 - Kuarup Discos
String Quartets 15-17 - Kuarup Discos...................
Poju - nice list; attached is a 'screen capture' from my classical music database of the V-L works that I own currently - now, I've not listened to these discs in a while which I must soon correct! But I'd appreciate any comments concerning other recordings, replacements, additions, etc. Thanks all - Dave :D
Since we're talking about Villa-Lobos collections, here is mine:
-Complete Choros and Bachianas Brasileiras, John Neschling, Roberto Minczuk, Sao Paulo Symphony Orch., 7-CDs, BIS
-Complete Bachianas Brasileiras, Kenneth Schermerhorn, Nashville Symphony Orch., 3-CDs, Naxos
-Complete Symphonies, Carl St. Clair, SWR Radio Symphony Orch., 7-CDs, Cpo Records
-Complete String Quartets, Latinoamericano Quartet, 6-CDs + DVD, Dorian Recordings
-Genesis, Erosao, Amazonas, Dawn in a Tropical Forest, Roberto Duarte, Slovak Radio Symphony Orch., Marco Polo
-Discovery of Brazil Suites Nos. 1-4, Roberto Duarte, Slovak Radio Symphony, Marco Polo
-Symphony No. 6, Ruda, Roberto Duarte, Slovak Radio Symphony, Marco Polo
-Symphonic Dances, Roberto Duarte, Slovak Radio Symphony, Marco Polo
-The 5 Piano Concertos, Cristina Ortiz, Miguel Gomez-Martinez, Royal Philharmonic, 2-CDs, Decca
-Forest of the Amazon, Renee Fleming, Alfred Heller, Moscow Radio Symphony, Delos Records
-Forest of the Amazon, Anna Korondi, John Neschling, Sao Paulo Symphony Orch., BIS
-A Brazilian Extravaganze, Eleazar de Carvalho, Paraíba Symphony Orchestra, Delos Records
-Symphony No. 10, Giselle Ben-Dor, Santa Barbara Symphony, Koch
-Symphony No. 10, Victor Pablo Perez, Orquesta Sinfonica Tenerife, Harmonia Mundi
-Symphony No. 4, Cello Concerto No. 2, Amazonas, Enrique Arturo Diemecke, Simon Bolivar Symphony Orch. of Venezuela, Dorian Recordings
-Piano Music, Sofia Rubinsky, 8-CDs, Naxos
-Choros Nos. 8 & 9, Kenneth Schermerhorn, Hong Kong Philharmonic, Naxos (originally released on Marco Polo)
-Orchestral Works (includes world premiere of last ballet Emperor Jones), Jan Wagner, Odense Symphony Orchestra, Bridge
-Alma Brasileira: Music of Villa-Lobos, Renee Fleming, Michael Tilson Thomas, New World Symphony Orch., RCA
-Bachianas Brasileiras Nos. 2 & 5, Concerto For Guitar, Amazonas, Emmanuel Krivine, Lyon National Orch., Apex/Warner
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 23, 2010, 02:39:11 PM
Since we're talking about Villa-Lobos collections, here is mine:
-Complete Choros and Bachianas Brasileiras, John Neschling, Roberto Minczuk, Sao Paulo Symphony Orch., 7-CDs, BIS
-Complete Bachianas Brasileiras, Kenneth Schermerhorn, Nashville Symphony Orch., 3-CDs, Naxos
-Complete Symphonies, Carl St. Clair, SWR Radio Symphony Orch., 7-CDs, Cpo Records
.......................
-Piano Music, Sofia Rubinsky, 8-CDs, Naxos
MI - great list w/ some comparative recordings! :D
I do not own the
Symphonies - which is your preference for conductor/orchestra? I do love the CPO label, but I suspect these 7 discs are each in their own jewel box? (sorry but I'm a 'storage freak', i.e. need MORE space!).
The BIS release looks great! Now I already own these works, so would appreciate comments vs. the ones I have in my listing?
Finally, I have
Rubinsky in 3 of her Naxos discs - she has received great reviews, and I would like to own the rest, but Naxos seems to have packaged these in separate jewel boxes and not at a reduced price - just not their usual practice.
Any comments would be appreciated - thanks! Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan on June 23, 2010, 03:02:12 PM
MI - great list w/ some comparative recordings! :D
I do not own the Symphonies - which is your preference for conductor/orchestra? I do love the CPO label, but I suspect these 7 discs are each in their own jewel box? (sorry but I'm a 'storage freak', i.e. need MORE space!).
The BIS release looks great! Now I already own these works, so would appreciate comments vs. the ones I have in my listing?
Finally, I have Rubinsky in 3 of her Naxos discs - she has received great reviews, and I would like to own the rest, but Naxos seems to have packaged these in separate jewel boxes and not at a reduced price - just not their usual practice.
Any comments would be appreciated - thanks! Dave :)
Thanks for the compliments.
The symphonies of Villa-Lobos are very seldom heard works. In fact, the St. Clair/SWR box set includes many world premiere recordings. The performances overall are really good. The audio quality as expected with Cpo is great. Since there aren't many comparative performances of the symphonies, I can't really compare these performances with anything. I do own three different versions of "Symphony No. 10," two of "Symphony No. 4" and two of "Symphony No. 6." I think the Cpo recordings make strong cases for these symphonies. I really wished John Neschling or Eduardo Mata recorded Villa-Lobos symphonies. I prefer them in this repertoire, but alas, St. Clair does a fine job. Roberto Duarte is also another outstanding Villa-Lobos conductor. His Marco Polo recordings are fantastic. You should try and track them down.
One of the great things about the BIS set is it contains all of the "Choros," which aren't played that often, probably because of their difficulty. Neschling turns in some remarkable performances of these works with the Sao Paulo Symphony. "Choros No. 11," which is essentially a piano concerto is one of the finest works I think Villa-Lobos ever composed. It's a massive work full of breathtaking beauty. "Choros Nos 4, 6, 10" are my other favorites. The "Choros" like the "Bachianas" are scored for different instrumental lineups, but the ones that employ the full orchestra are simply outstanding. "Choros No. 10" gets played a lot, which was written for chorus and orchestra. It has a very primal quality to it. The BIS set as far as I'm concerned is a must-own for fans of this music.
P.S. Yes, the Cpo set has all of the jewel cases. I realize some people like the paper sleeves, I like the jewel cases, but then again, I seldom think about storage. I probably should think about this aspect of collecting more often, but I don't. I'm one sick puppy. :)
MI - thanks for your excellent & thorough comments in the previous post - I certainly need to explore the Symphonies & the BIS collection is of great interest - need to contemplate my choices vs. what I already own for the latter - :D
I'm still curious about your thoughts on the 'solo piano' works w/ Rubinsky - I like her on the 3 discs that I own, but again I think that Naxos just packaged all in separate jewel boxes (vs. their usual slip sleeves for larger sets)?
But regarding 'storage', I own over 4K CDs and like jewel boxes - I've moved part of my collection to another room & need to build some more cabinets (I'm an amateur woodworker) - so, I'm always thinking about 'shrinking' my storage options - but just me, I guess! Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan on June 23, 2010, 04:40:36 PM
MI - thanks for your excellent & thorough comments in the previous post - I certainly need to explore the Symphonies & the BIS collection is of great interest - need to contemplate my choices vs. what I already own for the latter - :D
I'm still curious about your thoughts on the 'solo piano' works w/ Rubinsky - I like her on the 3 discs that I own, but again I think that Naxos just packaged all in separate jewel boxes (vs. their usual slip sleeves for larger sets)?
But regarding 'storage', I own over 4K CDs and like jewel boxes - I've moved part of my collection to another room & need to build some more cabinets (I'm an amateur woodworker) - so, I'm always thinking about 'shrinking' my storage options - but just me, I guess! Dave :)
You're welcome. I enjoy conversing with people, especially when it pertains to composers that I really enjoy. ;)
Sorry I didn't comment about the piano music set with Rubinsky. Let me say, it's really good. I don't have much to compare it to, because I'm still new to his solo piano music, but I've listened to discs 1-6 so far and have been impressed. The whole series is definitely worth acquiring and yes all of the discs are just the original releases housed in a box. The artwork on the box set is really cool looking:
(http://www.latockiteamcreative.com/imagesPortfolio/naxos10.jpg)
About storage, I have several filing cabinets that I have my CDs stored in, but I also have some well made, hard plastic containers that I use to store some CDs as well. Most of my collection is organized, but it's not alphabetized yet, which I hope one day to be able to do. I own around 6,000 classical recordings, but this is just a rough guess. For a long period of time, I kept a list of my collection via Microsoft Word, but for awhile there I was buying at such a rapid pace that before I knew it, I couldn't catch up inputing all the recordings I had acquired, so now it's just terribly out-of-date. Trying to find the time to catalog my collection is probably what is holding me back from doing it. There's just never enough time in the day.
Somebody asked me in the "Desert Island Disc" thread about what I consider to be Villa-Lobos' masterpieces?
Here is a list of works I consider essential Villa-Lobos:
In no particular order:
-Bachianas Brasileiras Nos. 2 & 3
-Choros Nos. 6, 8-11
-Symphonies Nos. 4, 6, and 10
-Uirapuru
-Genesis
-Discovery of Brazil Suites Nos. 1-4 (especially No. 4)
-Guitar Concerto
-Forest of the Amazon
-String Quartets Nos. 1 & 6 (I'm still absorbing these works, but 1 & 6 are especially fine)
I have enjoyed the music of Villa-Lobos since I became acquainted with it two years ago. Of course, I had heard the 5th Bachianas on radio (who hasn't?) but I had not heard anything else by him. Now I've got a small but good collection of some of his works, like the complete Bachianas, two of the Choros, the Naxos chamber works cd, his Guitar Concerto, Fantasy for saxophone, and Cristina Ortiz playing some of his piano music (both solo and with orchestra).
It must be remembered that he was also a brilliant conductor, and was friends with the cream of the international music scene, from pianist Artur Rubinstein to composer Edgard Varese. He also knew how to play virtually every instrument, and this mastery can be heard in much of his music. He started out with Bach, but his style encompassed everything from virtually all of the styles of the early to mid C20th, and (of course) Brazilian folk idioms.
I would really like to see something by him done live here in Sydney, but I haven't seen anything on the cards so far. There was something played at the Australian Festival of Chamber Music up in Townsville (Queensland), though (but I don't travel that far to see music, I'm not that obsessed!). Anyway, I'll keep my ears and eyes open to see if anything comes up...
Quote from: SonicMan on June 23, 2010, 09:17:26 AM
Poju - nice list; attached is a 'screen capture' from my classical music database of the V-L works that I own currently - now, I've not listened to these discs in a while which I must soon correct! But I'd appreciate any comments concerning other recordings, replacements, additions, etc. Thanks all - Dave :D
Sorry about the delay. Your collection isn't bad either. ;) The Naxos set of Bachianas Brasileiras is one of those thousands things I'd like to own. Maybe someday.
Quote from: 71 dB on July 21, 2010, 02:16:13 AM
Sorry about the delay. Your collection isn't bad either. ;) The Naxos set of Bachianas Brasileiras is one of those thousands things I'd like to own. Maybe someday.
The Naxos set is quite good. I think Neschling on BIS edges Schermerhorn out with orchestral performance and audio quality, but both sets are worth owning. Schermerhorn was an early champion of Villa-Lobos and his recording with
Choros Nos. 8 & 9 were major contributions the Villa-Lobos catalog at the time of their release (1980s).
A new recording of Forest of the Amazon is available from BIS just to let everybody know. It is with John Neschling and the Sao Paulo Symphony Orchestra. It's a fantastic recording. I still think Alfred Heller's recording with Renee Fleming and the Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra is amazing. If you don't own the Heller, buy it first, then the Neschling. :D
I think I saw the Fleming recording of Forest at the library and I will definitely be borrowing it at some stage. I'm surprised that they have quite a bit of this composer, because he's not exactly "mainstream." But I also saw other good stuff, so I'll be making a point to borrow more over the next few months.
I was talking about Villa-Lobos to a Brazilian woman I know, and she said the the Choro was a more sophisticated type of Samba. But she also said that there are many other Brazilian composers alive & working today (not decomposing!) & next time I meet her I'll ask her what she knows about this, becuase the only Brazilians I have heard so far are him & Camargo Guarneri (both no longer with us for decades)...
Quote from: Sid on August 15, 2010, 06:48:01 PM
I think I saw the Fleming recording of Forest at the library and I will definitely be borrowing it at some stage.
No Latin American composer is mainstream and I think this alone peaks an interest in those wanting to hear the music. There are many great recordings of Villa-Lobos' music available.
Forest of the Amazon would be an interesting place to start examing VL's output outside of the
Bachianas Brasileiras. I still think his
Choros series is better musically than the
Bachianas. For me, VL's music is about the observations of the landscape and the people that were around him: the jungles, the Amazon River, the idigenous people, the street musicians in Rio de Janeiro, etc. These are things you can
feel in his music.
Sid, I think investigating his music more in-depth would be a positive thing for you to do. When you go back to that library, look for Roberto Duarte's VL recordings on Marco Polo. These are outstanding recordings that I think you will enjoy.
Does anyone know this piece (which may be spelled slightly differently)? It comes at the end of some V-L guitar recital (mostly solo?) on cd, and is remembered as being quite tropical and quite mystical.
NNNNnnnnnnnnoooooOOOOoooOOOOooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 15, 2010, 07:01:25 PM
No Latin American composer is mainstream and I think this alone peaks an interest in those wanting to hear the music. There are many great recordings of Villa-Lobos' music available. Forest of the Amazon would be an interesting place to start examing VL's output outside of the Bachianas Brasileiras. I still think his Choros series is better musically than the Bachianas. For me, VL's music is about the observations of the landscape and the people that were around him: the jungles, the Amazon River, the idigenous people, the street musicians in Rio de Janeiro, etc. These are things you can feel in his music.
Sid, I think investigating his music more in-depth would be a positive thing for you to do. When you go back to that library, look for Roberto Duarte's VL recordings on Marco Polo. These are outstanding recordings that I think you will enjoy.
MI, I almost picked up a copy of Heller's A Floresta do Amazonas a couple years ago after hearing some fantastic samples of the work on Amazon; however, some financial issues prevented me from actually pulling the trigger. Due to your enthusiasm, I think I will get it once I have the means to do so!
Quote from: RexRichter on August 18, 2010, 12:56:54 PM
MI, I almost picked up a copy of Heller's A Floresta do Amazonas a couple years ago after hearing some fantastic samples of the work on Amazon; however, some financial issues prevented me from actually pulling the trigger. Due to your enthusiasm, I think I will get it once I have the means to do so!
Yes, please get it! It's a great recording. After doing some heavy comparisons between Heller's and Neschling's recording of this work, I have to say that right now Heller wins. The playing seems much more rawer (thanks to the Moscow Radio Symphony Orch.) and overall I think Heller was much more intune with this work than Neschling. That said, Neschling is an outstanding Villa-Lobos conductor, but I don't think he was as inspired as Heller in this recording.
Anyway, get the Heller. You won't be sorry.
Quote from: Mirror Image on August 18, 2010, 01:02:22 PM
Yes, please get it! It's a great recording. After doing some heavy comparisons between Heller's and Neschling's recording of this work, I have to say that right now Heller wins. The playing seems much more rawer (thanks to the Moscow Radio Symphony Orch.) and overall I think Heller was much more intune with this work than Neschling. That said, Neschling is an outstanding Villa-Lobos conductor, but I don't think he was as inspired as Heller in this recording.
Anyway, get the Heller. You won't be sorry.
It's very good indeed. Since it's a long (75 minutes) work I feared that there would be a lot of filler, but I love it from start to finish. Renée Fleming deserves a mention I think - she's really superb. My only minor complaint is that there isn't a track-by-track narrative included in the booklet, but at least the lyrics of the songs are included and the titles of the individual tracks are informative themselves.
Quote from: jhar26 on August 22, 2010, 02:34:06 PM
It's very good indeed. Since it's a long (75 minutes) work I feared that there would be a lot of filler, but I love it from start to finish. Renée Fleming deserves a mention I think - she's really superb. My only minor complaint is that there isn't a track-by-track narrative included in the booklet, but at least the lyrics of the songs are included and the titles of the individual tracks are informative themselves.
The work is a narrative?
Quote from: RexRichter on August 22, 2010, 03:51:00 PM
The work is a narrative?
Villa-Lobos initially wrote music for an Audrey Hepburn movie called "Green Mansions" but what ended up in the movie had little to do with his score, so an angry Villa-Lobos added material to his original score and reworked it into what could be described as a symphonic poem and cantata about W.H. Hudson's novel on which the movie was based.
Quote from: jhar26 on August 22, 2010, 02:34:06 PM
It's very good indeed. Since it's a long (75 minutes) work I feared that there would be a lot of filler, but I love it from start to finish. Renée Fleming deserves a mention I think - she's really superb. My only minor complaint is that there isn't a track-by-track narrative included in the booklet, but at least the lyrics of the songs are included and the titles of the individual tracks are informative themselves.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. Yes, it's a great work. From here, you should hear his
Symphony No. 10, which is, essentially, a choral symphony. It's a beautiful work that is quite ambitious. Also,
Choros No. 10 would also be a great place to go from
Forest of the Amazon.
V-L wrote four SQs in his first period. No.1 is a suite, which some above have claimed as a favorite.
No.3 is the SQ where V-L's Brazilianness fully comes out for the first time. It is beautifully languid in a way that the French couldn't conceive of (until Milhaud!). It is the most expansive of the four, a true, unique, New Voice in the medium (at the time), in that, I think, the tropical climate had never been depicted in such a way before. This is a very intimate portrayal of V-L's country.
No.4, by comparison, would be called the "Bach" Quartet, because of its objective use of materials, sounding, quite frankly, like Bach from Brazil. Perhaps here is where we could start comparing the Bach of V-L with the Bach of, say, Hindemith (Bach lovers both)? I really suggest that readers who love V-L's First Period should get in touch with SQs 3-4.
Though No.2 is a quatum leap from the suite of No.1, I found it surprisingly weak listening to it last night. I invite anyone else's more astute assessment, of course. I don't know what I could be missing, but this just seems like a dry template for what would become the 3-4 duo. Maybe I'm just right? :o
WARNING: You may not be able to find a more pleasantly carefree SQ than Villa-Lobos No.3 (next to Milhaud SQs 1-2).
btw- I have the Bessler-Reis/Amazonia cycle, the only fully Brazilian cycle. 8)
That's right, I'm doin' the jiggy dance! ;D
Quote from: snyprrr on August 27, 2010, 07:16:31 PM
btw- I have the Bessler-Reis/Amazonia cycle, the only fully Brazilian cycle. 8)
That's right, I'm doin' the jiggy dance! ;D
How do you know the palyers are sporting Brazilians? :D
Just watch Choros 10, and parts of 11, on YouTube. 10 gets my vote! Infectious!
I) early period (- @1919):
Chamber wise, there is some piano music, some music for violin/cello and piano (including 3-4 sonatas), SQs 1-4, Piano Trios 1-3 (all), and Octeto, and the Sexteto Mistico.
Orchestrally, we have the Sinfonietta No.1, the Suite for Strings, and some Danzas, all leading up to Uirapuru and Amazonas, the culmination of this first phase.
Also, we have the Symphonies 1-4, of which I would love to hear some comment.
II) The '20s:
seem to be preoccupied with the Choros (incl. most of his highly personal wind chamber music), which conveniently lead into...
III) 1930-1945:
the Bachianas Brasileiras (incl. Discovery of Brazil), which conveniently leads into...
IV/V) 1945-54/55-1958:
1)the Symphonies 6-12,
2)the Piano Ctos 1-5,
3)the concertos for sax, bassoon, guitar, harmonica, and harp (Milhaud?),
4)the SQs 8-17,
which, in the very last years (as with Bloch) blossom into a potpurri Late Phase, including two Band favorites, two more evocations (Genesis and Erosion), and a few other concertante works. It seems like here he is tying up loose ends (the Cello Cto No.2 coming @40 years after the first, and so on). At the very end we also have the Flowers of Brazil. Also there are some small chamber stragglers.
Now I know why V-L has always confused me: because he, Bloch, Milhaud, Chavez, Martinu, and many others (Hindemith in the middle), all seem to have the same trajectory. They have this early, experimental phase, which leads into the learning phase, which inevitably leads into WWII, which seems to change them all a little. And, then they all start dying '58-'63.
Honestly, I make this list for myself, but please, illuminate me!
Quote from: snyprrr on August 31, 2010, 11:58:27 AM
I) early period (- @1919):
Chamber wise, there is some piano music, some music for violin/cello and piano (including 3-4 sonatas), SQs 1-4, Piano Trios 1-3 (all), and Octeto, and the Sexteto Mistico.
Orchestrally, we have the Sinfonietta No.1, the Suite for Strings, and some Danzas, all leading up to Uirapuru and Amazonas, the culmination of this first phase.
Also, we have the Symphonies 1-4, of which I would love to hear some comment.
II) The '20s:
seem to be preoccupied with the Choros (incl. most of his highly personal wind chamber music), which conveniently lead into...
III) 1930-1945:
the Bachianas Brasileiras (incl. Discovery of Brazil), which conveniently leads into...
IV/V) 1945-54/55-1958:
1)the Symphonies 6-12,
2)the Piano Ctos 1-5,
3)the concertos for sax, bassoon, guitar, harmonica, and harp (Milhaud?),
4)the SQs 8-17,
which, in the very last years (as with Bloch) blossom into a potpurri Late Phase, including two Band favorites, two more evocations (Genesis and Erosion), and a few other concertante works. It seems like here he is tying up loose ends (the Cello Cto No.2 coming @40 years after the first, and so on). At the very end we also have the Flowers of Brazil. Also there are some small chamber stragglers.
Now I know why V-L has always confused me: because he, Bloch, Milhaud, Chavez, Martinu, and many others (Hindemith in the middle), all seem to have the same trajectory. They have this early, experimental phase, which leads into the learning phase, which inevitably leads into WWII, which seems to change them all a little. And, then they all start dying '58-'63.
Honestly, I make this list for myself, but please, illuminate me!
This is a very good summary of VL's compositional history. I like all of his "phases." I don't really have any objections to the observations you made.
BUMP!!!
Quote from: snyprrr on August 31, 2010, 11:58:27 AM
I) early period (- @1919):
Chamber wise, there is some piano music, some music for violin/cello and piano (including 3-4 sonatas), SQs 1-4, Piano Trios 1-3 (all), and Octeto, and the Sexteto Mistico.
Snyprrr - nice chronological summary of V-L's output - thanks - I too would like to hear some
Symphony comments - own none at the moment - :-\
BUT - I did just acquire the 2-CD set shown below of the
Three Piano Trios w/ the Damocles Trio - this received an excellent review in
Fanfare (which is attached); as stated in your comments, these are 'early' works in a European late-Romantic style (i.e. before he went to Paris and then started on his Brazilian flavored composing) - however, quite enjoyable w/ an additional work included from another Brazilian composer,
Lorenzo Fernandez - Marco Polo offers these trios on 2 different discs, but this current group is young and puts in a superb effort - in addition from the comments made previously in this thread, I'm putting together a small Amazon order which will include the disc (below, right) w/ Renee Fleming! :D
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/VillaLobosPianoTrios/1157231604_4N5As-O.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61rwc577c3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Dave, don't know if you saw my write-up (http://www.juilliard.edu/journal/2009-2010/1005/articles/discoveries.html) of the Damocles CD, but I liked it, too--a lot.
PS, the group's pianist, Adam Kent, also did this superb Halffter CD below.
[asin]B000056QEE[/asin]
--Bruce
Quote from: bhodges on January 15, 2011, 02:23:12 PM
Dave, don't know if you saw my write-up (http://www.juilliard.edu/journal/2009-2010/1005/articles/discoveries.html) of the Damocles CD, but I liked it, too--a lot..............
Hello
Bruce - excellent review on the CD set above - thanks for the link - I completely agree w/ your comments and find your summary much more spirited and enjoyable than the one I attached from
Fanfare - congrats and I hope others will be stimulated to purchase this offering - Dave :D
Thanks, Dave! Not having heard much of Villa-Lobos's output (except for some of the better known works), this recording was a real eye-opener. And of course, the three performers did a beautiful "sales job." ;D
--Bruce
It's so good to see VL get some attention. I think too often he's just overlooked by many classical fans. If people could just hear his music outside the Bachianas Brasileiras, I think many would find so much more to enjoy.
I'm looking into Genesis and Erosion. Are they very Modernistic?
Quote from: snyprrr on January 15, 2011, 08:19:37 PM
I'm looking into Genesis and Erosion. Are they very Modernistic?
Yes, they're definitely Modern works.
Genesis has kind of slow start but when it builds up to one of it's main climaxes it feels like the jungle just came alive and you're being hunted. It's quite a savage work.
Erosao is a whole different animal altogether, but just as enjoyable. It's feelings are much more subtle and atmospheric. I think these are two of VL's finest orchestral works. As usual with VL, the orchestration is top-notch.
Quote from: snyprrr on January 15, 2011, 08:19:37 PM
I'm looking into Genesis and Erosion. Are they very Modernistic?
Erosion seems a little inappropriate now; given the current situation in Brazil.
Quote from: erato on January 16, 2011, 02:16:19 AM
Erosion seems a little inappropriate now; given the current situation in Brazil.
Who cares? It's a great piece of music that's fun to listen to. Should we all stop listening to Bruckner just because Hitler liked his music?
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 16, 2011, 05:51:15 AM
Who cares? It's a great piece of music that's fun to listen to. Should we all stop listening to Bruckner just because Hitler liked his music?
Not what I said. Inaproppriate doesn' mean stop. And anyway; the current landslides in Brazil won't last forever, then it will be appropriate again. But relax, it's only music.
A new recording in the pipeline it seems.
(http://static.qobuz.com/images/jaquettes/4010/4010276023906_230.jpg)
Quote from: erato on February 13, 2011, 06:17:22 AM
A new recording in the pipeline it seems.
(http://static.qobuz.com/images/jaquettes/4010/4010276023906_230.jpg)
I'm pretty skeptical of a German orchestra playing Latin American music. There's something about this that just sounds disingenuous to me, but who knows, this could very well be an excellent recording.
I would be very interested in hearing what people here think about VL's Choros? What are your favorites?
Here is a list I pulled from Wikipedia:
Introduction to the Chôros, for guitar & orchestra (1929)
Choro No. 1 for guitar (1920)
Choro No. 2 for flute and clarinet (1924)
Choro No. 3 "Pica-páo" (Woodpecker) for clarinet, bassoon, saxophone, 3 horns, and trombone, or for male chorus, or for both together (1925)
Choro No. 4 for 3 horns and trombone (1926)
Choro No. 5 for piano (1925) "Alma brasileira" (Brazilian Soul)
Choro No. 6 for orchestra (1926)
Choro No. 7 "Settimino" ("Septet") for flute, oboe, clarinet, saxophone, bassoon, violin, and cello, with tam-tam ad lib. (1924)
Choro No. 8 for orchestra with 2 pianos (1925)
Choro No. 9 for orchestra (1929)
Choro No. 10 for chorus and orchestra (1926) "Rasga o coração" ("Tear Out My Heart")
Choro No. 11 for piano and orchestra (1928)
Choro No. 12 for orchestra (1929)
Choro No. 13 for 2 orchestras and band (1929) now lost
Choro No. 14 for orchestra, band and chorus (1928) now lost
Chôros Bis, for violin & cello (1928)
Quinteto em forma de chôros for flute, oboe, cor anglais, clarinet and bassoon (1929); arr. flute, oboe, clarinet, horn, bassoon (1951)
All of the Choros were composed in the 1920s, a decade before the famous Bachianas Brasileiras. What's interesting is Choros Nos. 13 & 14 are lost. What a shame! I wonder what these scores sounded like? I wonder how the manuscripts got lost? This seems like something that has happened with many of VL's compositions.
I have got the Naxos recording of Choros 8 & 9 & have heard the 10th on radio in a broadcast of the "last night of the proms" in 2009. Good to see that one of the world's top orchestras were putting Villa's music out there, in his anniversary year. The 10th was quite a savage work, the choral part reminded me a bit of Walton's Belshazzar's Feast. The 8th is also quite wild, I like the cross rhythms in it. The 9th is more refined, lyrical and tuneful, perhaps reflecting the influence of Paris where Villa lived during the '20's. I also like the use of traditional Brazilian percussion instruments in both. There will be a full Villa chamber recital at the Sydney Conservatorium later this year, I hope to go. One of the works will be the Quinteto em forma de chôros, which I have not heard as yet. I have the following Naxos chamber disc of his music, which I like a lot, because most of the music is quite relaxing and has a kind of breezy chill out feel. The most serious work on the disc is the Duo for Violin & Viola, which sounds more like Hindemith than Villa, a work which has many deja vu "Baroque" moments. I also like the song transcriptions on this disc. Overall, this music has an impressionistic, neo-Baroque/Classical and late Romantic vibe. It's clearly apparent that, like most composers of the time, his music was strongly rooted in ideas and styles explored by composers of the past...
[asin]B000FVQUSK[/asin]
Quote from: Sid on March 08, 2011, 05:22:21 PM
I have got the Naxos recording of Choros 8 & 9 & have heard the 10th on radio in a broadcast of the "last night of the proms" in 2009. Good to see that one of the world's top orchestras were putting Villa's music out there, in his anniversary year. The 10th was quite a savage work, the choral part reminded me a bit of Walton's Belshazzar's Feast. The 8th is also quite wild, I like the cross rhythms in it. The 9th is more refined, lyrical and tuneful, perhaps reflecting the influence of Paris where Villa lived during the '20's. I also like the use of traditional Brazilian percussion instruments in both. There will be a full Villa chamber recital at the Sydney Conservatorium later this year, I hope to go. One of the works will be the Quinteto em forma de chôros, which I have not heard as yet. I have the following Naxos chamber disc of his music, which I like a lot, because most of the music is quite relaxing and has a kind of breezy chill out feel. The most serious work on the disc is the Duo for Violin & Viola, which sounds more like Hindemith than Villa, a work which has many deja vu "Baroque" moments. I also like the song transcriptions on this disc. Overall, this music has an impressionistic, neo-Baroque/Classical and late Romantic vibe. It's clearly apparent that, like most composers of the time, his music was strongly rooted in ideas and styles explored by composers of the past...
I like to think of Villa-Lobos as an Impressionist with a firm understanding of Neoclassical ideas and how integrate his own native folk music into his own vision. You clearly can't pigeonhole VL so easily though. One minute he might have you thinking the music at hand will be melancholic, but then turn right around and cut you to pieces with those savage Brazilian rhythms. He wasn't afraid to experiment either. A lot of his music uses unorthodox methods in developing the work's structure. He wasn't a sonata form kind of composer in other words. He followed his own voice and that's one thing I admire about him. There's a famous Stravinsky quote where he said something to effect that whenever he hears a bad piece of music it always ends up being a piece by Villa-Lobos. In my estimation, I think Stravinsky didn't understand VL's art all that well anyway. I do think, however, that VL was a very humble musician and, quote me if I'm wrong, but I haven't read anything where VL cut down another composer's music. He constantly found new paths of inspiration and composed to the end of his life.
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 13, 2011, 06:54:28 AM
I'm pretty skeptical of a German orchestra playing Latin American music. There's something about this that just sounds disingenuous to me, but who knows, this could very well be an excellent recording.
seing that this is a choral disc, sung by SWR Vokalensemble Stuttgart under Marcus Creed, I don't find that particularly illuminating.....
And isn't these discs; which you have praised, played by German orchestras?:
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/9997862.jpg)
I listened to SQ No.11, one of my V-L favs. After the serial experiments of 8-10, V-L returns here to some really nice, lush Brazilian sonorities. Starting with No.12, the SQs begin to get more and more abstract, it seems, so, No.11 truly is a kind of summing up. Anyone care to comment on No.11?
Quote from: snyprrr on January 16, 2011, 06:55:04 AM
Music Can Kill!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/v/HWiO5SFoh8g
Quote from: The new erato on March 08, 2011, 10:39:28 PM
seing that this is a choral disc, sung by SWR Vokalensemble Stuttgart under Marcus Creed, I don't find that particularly illuminating.....
And isn't these discs; which you have praised, played by German orchestras?:
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/9997862.jpg)
Yes and I'm not that convinced by most of the performances in the VL symphony box set on Cpo, but, alas, it's all we have until something more authentic comes along.
I'm in two minds here about "authenticity." I can understand where those who prefer Brazilian performers play Villa's music are coming from. I have Christina Ortiz playing some of his piano works on disc, and she is great. By the same token, I have some Naxos discs of V-L done by American ensembles and even the Hong Kong Philharmonic, and to my ears, they sound excellent & very idiomatic, as the critics would say. I look forward to going to some concerts here in Sydney where local musicians will have a crack at his stuff also, and I can't see why they won't be top notch also. Music is an international language, once musicians learn that language, they can play a wide variety of repertoire expertly...
Quote from: Sid on March 09, 2011, 01:54:24 PM
I'm in two minds here about "authenticity." I can understand where those who prefer Brazilian performers play Villa's music are coming from. I have Christina Ortiz playing some of his piano works on disc, and she is great. By the same token, I have some Naxos discs of V-L done by American ensembles and even the Hong Kong Philharmonic, and to my ears, they sound excellent & very idiomatic, as the critics would say. I look forward to going to some concerts here in Sydney where local musicians will have a crack at his stuff also, and I can't see why they won't be top notch also. Music is an international language, once musicians learn that language, they can play a wide variety of repertoire expertly...
I agree, Sid, music is an international language. Perhaps my opinion was a bit too specific and not realistic. The LSO are comfortable playing Nielsen one minute and Copland the next. Music can be performed in a myriad of different ways and this is the great thing about music.
And, btw, V-L, in my mind, invented the Universalist sound of the '50s,... that was his point, wasn't it?,...to achieve a non-Nationalist sound? That's why his Late Music sounds like no other, yet sounds very familiar?
Quote from: snyprrr on March 09, 2011, 07:50:57 PM
And, btw, V-L, in my mind, invented the Universalist sound of the '50s,... that was his point, wasn't it?,...to achieve a non-Nationalist sound? That's why his Late Music sounds like no other, yet sounds very familiar?
Actually, I think he had Brazil in mind in most of his music. There are a few exceptions, but ultimately VL wanted to create a music that was reflective of his own country and I think, more than any other Brazilian composer, he achieved this.
I still have not listened to Villa-Lobos. I will do some previews, because I haven't even done that yet. ::)
I find this intersting, and if I've heard it before, it has been put in a way I can understand.
snyprrr: QuoteAnd, btw, V-L, in my mind, invented the Universalist sound of the '50s,... that was his point, wasn't it?,...to achieve a non-Nationalist sound? That's why his Late Music sounds like no other, yet sounds very familiar?
That makes me want to explore this composer somewhat!
Quote from: John of Glasgow on March 09, 2011, 07:58:14 PM
I still have not listened to Villa-Lobos. I will do some previews, because I haven't even done that yet. ::)
I find this intersting, and if I've heard it before, it has been put in a way I can understand.
snyprrr:
That makes me want to explore this composer somewhat!
I don't think snyprrr's thought on VL is completely inline with what VL was actually trying to achieve. As I stated above, VL
wanted the sounds of Brazil to come through in his music. I read a quote from him (which I can't find) where VL describes his music. In summary, he said that his music is a representation of not only his experiences in Brazil, but of the musical landscape.
I think the only time where VL took his ideas in a more mainstream direction are through his
Bachianas Brasileiras where he relied more on Bachian melody/counterpoint and European Classical models. All of this, obviously, is still filtered through the lens of his own distinctive musical voice.
Quote from: snyprrr on March 09, 2011, 07:50:57 PM
And, btw, V-L, in my mind, invented the Universalist sound of the '50s,... that was his point, wasn't it?,...to achieve a non-Nationalist sound? That's why his Late Music sounds like no other, yet sounds very familiar?
I agree, the Naxos disc of V-L's chamber works played by US group mobius certainly sounds like that. The
Quintet Instrumental, although written in the late 1950's, sounds like it was straight out of the Paris of the 1910's. & the
Duo for Violin & Viola, I think written in the '40's, sounds a lot like Hindemith to my ears.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 09, 2011, 08:20:27 PM
I think the only time where VL took his ideas in a more mainstream direction are through his Bachianas Brasileiras where he relied more on Bachian melody/counterpoint and European Classical models. All of this, obviously, is still filtered through the lens of his own distinctive musical voice.
Yes, these were very 'European' sounding works. He jumped onto the neo-classicist bandwagon of the time. The three
Choros I've heard sound more 'Brazilian,' eg. employing Brazilian percussion instruments.
BTW, has anyone here heard real choros music? I'm not talking of V-L's classical works, I'm talking about the music he would have heard on the streets of Rio. I was talking to a Brazilian acquaintance about V-L last year, & she said she'd burn a disc of the real choros music, but I haven't got it yet. She said that the real choros (obviously) sound less 'classical' than V-L's efforts. It would be interesting to hear this music. I've had a quick look on youtube, but I can only find V-L's choros, not the real thing...
Quote from: Sid on March 10, 2011, 02:35:17 PMYes, these were very 'European' sounding works. He jumped onto the neo-classicist bandwagon of the time. The three Choros I've heard sound more 'Brazilian,' eg. employing Brazilian percussion instruments.
BTW, has anyone here heard real choros music? I'm not talking of V-L's classical works, I'm talking about the music he would have heard on the streets of Rio. I was talking to a Brazilian acquaintance about V-L last year, & she said she'd burn a disc of the real choros music, but I haven't got it yet. She said that the real choros (obviously) sound less 'classical' than V-L's efforts. It would be interesting to hear this music. I've had a quick look on youtube, but I can only find V-L's choros, not the real thing...
The interesting thing is VL's interests go from one extreme to another quite rapidly. His fascination with Neoclassicism didn't last long at all. He composed a few works in this genre, but quickly returned to his main style. It reminds me of going to see a movie, they beef us up with previews for other movie before the main attraction. The same thing happened with VL, he liked the sound of what composers like Stravinsky were doing and adopted this style for a few works, but then started to go back into the direction of his earlier works but with a more decisive approach to composition.
I have not heard any authentic Brazilian music at all except what's filtered through VL's music. It would be interesting to go through the streets of a city like Rio de Janeiro and hear some of this music that VL heard.
Last night I watched the movie Green Mansions (1959) w/ Hepburn & Perkins (burned to DVD from the TCM channel) - a miscast and rather poor adaption of the book, but both major stars were a the peak of their beauty! But why mention this film in a VL thread? Well, Villa-Lobos was the composer of the original score for the film, which was rejected completely and then written by another!
Well, Heitor was POffed to say the least; thus, he wrote I guess a 'Symphonic Poem' type piece based on his compositions for this film - I have the recording below (right) - others exist and have likely already been discussed in this thread - so of interest - :D
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vz7kuzo5L._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61rwc577c3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan on March 10, 2011, 05:20:45 PM
Last night I watched the movie Green Mansions (1959) w/ Hepburn & Perkins (burned to DVD from the TCM channel) - a miscast and rather poor adaption of the book, but both major stars were a the peak of their beauty! But why mention this film in a VL thread? Well, Villa-Lobos was the composer of the original score for the film, which was rejected completely and then written by another!
Well, Heitor was POffed to say the least; thus, he wrote I guess a 'Symphonic Poem' type piece based on his compositions for this film - I have the recording below (right) - others exist and have likely already been discussed in this thread - so of interest - :D
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vz7kuzo5L._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61rwc577c3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Have you heard this recording of
Forest of the Amazon, SonicMan?
(http://ml.naxos.jp/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/BIS-SACD-1660.jpg)
This recording will probably make you forget your Heller recording and while that performance was important for it's time, this new one is clearly superior not only in terms of conducting and orchestral playing, but audio quality as well. John Neschling, one of the great VL interpreters, has built this Sao Paulo Symphony Orchestra from the ground up. It took him 10 years to achieve what he has with them and to make them better musicians. This orchestra owes everything to Neschling. This performance of
Forest of the Amazon is just remarkable.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 10, 2011, 06:27:58 PM
Have you heard this recording of Forest of the Amazon, SonicMan?
(http://ml.naxos.jp/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/BIS-SACD-1660.jpg)
This recording will probably make you forget your Heller recording and while that performance was important for it's time, this new one is clearly superior not only in terms of conducting and orchestral playing, but audio quality as well. John Neschling, one of the great VL interpreters, has built this Sao Paulo Symphony Orchestra from the ground up. It took him 10 years to achieve what he has with them and to make them better musicians. This orchestra owes everything to Neschling. This performance of Forest of the Amazon is just remarkable.
MI - as you might remember, we've discussed this recording before and it is indeed on my 'wish list' - I obtained the other Neschling recordings and enjoy; but I must say that the other is still quite acceptable! :D
Quote from: SonicMan on March 10, 2011, 06:42:09 PM
MI - as you might remember, we've discussed this recording before and it is indeed on my 'wish list' - I obtained the other Neschling recordings and enjoy; but I must say that the other is still quite acceptable! :D
Yes, I remember our discussion. Don't get me wrong, Heller's performance is good, but it's not in the same class as Neschling's. I have listened to both recordings numerous times, but I think comparing these two performances will be like comparing a hamburger with fillet mignon. Sometimes I want a hamburger, but I know deep down inside of me a fillet mignon is so much better not only in taste but in actual quality of the meat.
I'm hungry now.
Time to revive the thread for one of my favorite composers of all-time. Has anyone read VL's biography? What an interesting life he had lived. I think one of the interesting things is how, like composers Bartok and Kodaly did in Hungary, he studied the native people's folk music in Brazil. This folk influence can be heard throughout his entire output. I mean, and this may be a cliche by now, you can really feel the jungle in his music. Does this make any sense?
I also wonder about the difficulty of his compositions. Can anyone here shed some light on this? Has anyone here played one of compositions either in an orchestra, chamber ensemble, soloist, etc.?
Quote from: listener on November 02, 2009, 04:59:44 PM
Re the EMI set with Villa-Lobos conducting.
CHECK DISC 6 FIRST! I finally got a 4th set that had the right one. V-L did not write "Rustle of Spring" and other pop favorites that occupied disc 6 in 3 sets.
Historically that set is important, but that's about it. The sound quality and performances are dismal. Plus, VL was very ill around this time, so obviously he's not going to be giving his 100%.
There is a one-day sale at Arkivmusic, and what I found listed there which I could not resist was the Villa-Lobos string quartet box for $30.
Quote from: Apollon on April 19, 2011, 06:48:45 AM
There is a one-day sale at Arkivmusic, and what I found listed there which I could not resist was the Villa-Lobos string quartet box for $30.
Thanks for the heads up, but I bought mine about a year ago for around $20.
Does anyone have the 3 Piano Trios?
Discuss, please.
Quote from: snyprrr on April 20, 2011, 05:36:04 PM
Does anyone have the 3 Piano Trios?
Discuss, please.
Snyprrr - please look through the thread and return to page 4; my post #78 has a brief discussion of the works performed by the
Damocles Trio w/ an attachment from a recent and excellent
Fanfare review; the next post, i.e. #79 is from
Bruce who reviewed the recording and provided a link, yet another excellent review - if you want these works, then this is a top modern choice recorded by a young trio in 2007! :)
Quote from: SonicMan on April 21, 2011, 05:33:10 AM
Snyprrr - please look through the thread and return to page 4; my post #78 has a brief discussion of the works performed by the Damocles Trio w/ an attachment from a recent and excellent Fanfare review; the next post, i.e. #79 is from Bruce who reviewed the recording and provided a link, yet another excellent review - if you want these works, then this is a top modern choice recorded by a young trio in 2007! :)
ah yes, thanks!
Quote from: 71 dB on March 01, 2008, 11:46:10 PM
Definitely Bachianas Brasileiras , also available on Naxos (don't know how good performance it is, I have Bátiz on EMI).
(http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9631/514gyo4wyqlaa240qp9.jpg) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Villa-L%C3%B4bos-Ch%C3%B4ros-No-11-Piano-Orchestra/dp/B00000G4OH/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1204447298&sr=1-1)
Choros No. 11 is a wonderful work for piano and orchestra. This Finnish production on ONDINE is superb.
The Batiz
Bachianas set is incredibly weak both in performance and sound quality. It holds no candle to Schermerhorn and Neschling. That recording of
Choros No. 11 is quite good, but the Neschling on BIS with Cristina Ortiz on piano is a better performance I think.
Of recent mention, it's good to see our resident GMGer, Brian, listen to some Villa-Lobos. It seems my promoting has paid off. :D
As I continue my Bachianathon, it's worth pointing out that Naxos have a new digital-only release of Villa-Lobos chamber music. The program:
Duo for oboe and bassoon [17:04]
Three preludes for guitar [12:00]
Choros No 5, for piano [5:23]
Caixinha de musica cabrada, for piano [2:28]
Poema singelo, for piano [6:01]
Distribuicao de flores, for oboe and guitar [4:25]
Fantasia, for saxophone and piano [9:13]
Sexteto mistico [7:08]
Album info here. (http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=9.70127) There are currently no plans for a physical CD, but you should soon be able to download it from Classicsonline, eMusic, etc., and it's on Naxos Music Library.
A certain sale if they ever put it on CD. Files are for data, not music.
Quote from: Mirror Image on April 30, 2011, 07:00:56 AM
The Batiz Bachianas set is incredibly weak both in performance and sound quality. It holds no candle to Schermerhorn and Neschling. That recording of Choros No. 11 is quite good, but the Neschling on BIS with Cristina Ortiz on piano is a better performance I think.
Thanks for depressing me. I have The Piano Concertos played by Ortiz on Decca. Weak too?
I bought the Batiz set of Bachianas over 10 years ago and back then it was the only complete set on market I think.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 01, 2011, 07:30:32 AM
Thanks for depressing me. I have The Piano Concertos played by Ortiz on Decca. Weak too?
I bought the Batiz set of Bachianas over 10 years ago and back then it was the only complete set on market I think.
Cristina Ortiz is an advocate of VL's music, so, no, the set of PCs are not weak performance-wise, but they don't represent some of VL's better works.
I think it's high time you update your VL collection, because there have been some vast improvements made in this repertoire.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 01, 2011, 07:35:47 AM
Cristina Ortiz is an advocate of VL's music, so, no, the set of PCs are not weak performance-wise, but they don't represent some of VL's better works.
Always something wrong... ???
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 01, 2011, 07:35:47 AMI think it's high time you update your VL collection, because there have been some vast improvements made in this repertoire.
I don't allocate money for such updating but I think about this. The Batiz set has never sounded weak to me.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 01, 2011, 08:15:54 AMThe Batiz set has never sounded weak to me.
Well it does to me and if you pit the Batiz performances against the Neschling and Schermerhorn ones, you will notice a world of difference in not only the recording quality, but the quality of the performances as well. If you're happy with the Batiz set, that's great, but I'm just telling you that any fan of VL's music will want the best performances they can find. VL's sound-world is huge and requires a more dedicated conductor than Batiz.
What VL recordings do you own currently? Please list them all if you can. Thanks.
Quote from: Leon on May 01, 2011, 09:28:12 AMNext up for me will be the Piano Concertos and Symphonies.
Have you heard his
Choros? These were composed before the
Bachianas and are similar in the way they're all written for different instrument lineups, the music, however, couldn't be more different. I will say that the Neschling BIS set, along with his recent recording of
Forest of the Amazon, are absolutely essential to any VL collection:
[asin]B002EP8U6K[/asin]
(http://www.wesleyclassics.com.au/library/images/BISSACD1660.jpeg)
Quote from: 71 dB on May 01, 2011, 08:15:54 AM
Always something wrong... ???
I don't allocate money for such updating but I think about this. The Batiz set has never sounded weak to me.
Hi
Poju - although
MI can be rather abrasive & opinionated, I 'dumped' my Batiz recordings for the ones below, i.e. John Neschling w/ the Sao Paulo Symphony Orchestra; 7 discs at a great price, including the
Complete Choros & Bachianas Brasileiras, a 'modern' package hard to beat @ the moment; but up to you - Dave :D
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61f9OnezgRL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: Leon on May 01, 2011, 10:08:32 AMI can't seem to find the recording of the same work you loaded the image of - do you have a link? And thanks for the other recommendation of the BB and Choros - I'll probably spring for it at some point; looks good.
Yes, Leon here is the link for that
Forest of the Amazon recorded I pictured above:
http://www.amazon.com/Floresta-Do-Amazonas-Villa-Lobos/dp/B003PBYTCQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1304303433&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Floresta-Do-Amazonas-Villa-Lobos/dp/B003PBYTCQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1304303433&sr=1-1)
You simply can't go wrong with Neschling conducting Villa-Lobos. Neschling along with Heller, Duarte, St. Clair and Schermerhorn have done so much for VL's music.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 01, 2011, 08:44:30 AM
What VL recordings do you own currently? Please list them all if you can. Thanks.
Cello Concertos - MDG
Chôros No. 11 - Ondine
Symphonies 6 & 8 - CPO
Discovery of Brazil - Marco Polo
String Quartets 1, 2, 3 - Kuarup Discos*
String Quartets 15, 16, 17 - Kuarup Discos*
The 5 Piano Concertos - Decca
Sinfonía N°10 Amerindia - Harmonia Mundi
Bachianas Brasileiras, Guitar Concerto - EMI
Chôros Nos. 2, 3, 10, 12 - BIS
Chamber Music - Naxos
Chôros Nos. 8 & 9 - Naxos
Piano Music Volume 1 - Naxos
Complete Music for Solo Guitar - Naxos
String Quartets (Complete) - Brilliant Classics
Just ordered:
Floresta do Amazonas - BIS
_________________________________________________
* Given to me by a Brazilian working pal.
Quote from: Leon on May 02, 2011, 10:36:26 AM
I might prefer getting the Renee Fleming/Heller Floresta do Amazonas since I really like her singing. Also, it is available as a download, and that is my preferred method of acquiring music these days - the last thing I need are more physical CDs - and I the mp3 format is good enough for my almost 60 year old ears.
:)
The Heller/Fleming recording of
Forest of the Amazon is very good. I think you'll enjoy quite a bit. I'm not into downloading music, but I can understand why some people would be (i. e. saving space).
Quote from: 71 dB on May 02, 2011, 10:31:25 AMJust ordered:
Floresta do Amazonas - BIS
Excellent. Please let me know your impressions of the music once you hear it. Thanks for listing the recordings you own. It seems that you have many holes to fill.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 02, 2011, 11:53:58 AM
Thanks for listing the recordings you own. It seems that you have many holes to fill.
He's already got about two dozen discs of V-L - I'd say that's plenty. It's above average, imo. I disagree that the guy has "many holes to fill" - he's got all V-L's major works and then some...
Quote from: Sid on May 03, 2011, 04:06:20 AM
He's already got about two dozen discs of V-L - I'd say that's plenty. It's above average, imo. I disagree that the guy has "many holes to fill" - he's got all V-L's major works and then some...
I disagree with your disagreement. :) Actually, he does have some holes to fill. He only has one of the Roberto Duarte Marco Polo recordings and all of them are essential to any VL collection, especially the one containing the only recording of the ballet
Genesis. He's also missing all of the
Choros, which are also essential. The symphonies are enjoyable, but they're not absolutely necessary.
As if there was a law saying everyone has to own certain works by Villa-Lobos. ???
Yes, considering how prolific of a composer V-L was, I certainly have holes in my collection. I never claimed having a "large" collection. I am certain that most fans of classical music have less V-L than I have. In time there will be less and less holes in my collection.
Mirror Image, how about your Johann Rosenmüller collection? Do you own anything by this composer? Or how about Nicolaus Bruhns? How's your Elgar collection? There is music also outside classical world so how about your Autechre, The Prodigy, King Crimson, Tangerine Dream, Lowgold or S'Express collections? :D
So, we all have our interests and we follow them with the energy we choose. I am sick and tired to hear I am not good enough. I am not obligated to even like V-L and I am one of those who think he is an underrated composer! Sorry about not being a millionaire and buying all of the V-L discs on day one!
Quote from: 71 dB on May 03, 2011, 09:29:01 AM
As if there was a law that everyone has to own certain works by Villa-Lobos. ???
Yes, considering how prolific of a composer V-L was, I certainly have holes in my collection. I never claimed having a "large" collection. I am certain that most fans of classical music have less V-L than I have. In time there will be less and less holes in my collection.
Mirror Image, how about your Johann Rosenmüller collection? Do you own anything by this composer? Or how about Nicolaus Bruhns? How's your Elgar collection? There is music also outside classical world so how about your Autechre, The Prodigy, King Crimson, Tangerine Dream, Lowgold or S'Express collections? :D
So, we all have our interests and we follow them with the energy we choose. I am sick and tired to hear I am not good enough. I am not obligated to even like V-L and I am one of those who think he is an underrated composer! Sorry about not being a millionaire and buying all of the V-L discs on day one!
Calm down and relax. Everything will be okay. You're really bringing all of this on yourself. Don't be so sensitive. I'm sorry if my comments to you were hurtful. That was not my intention. I was just merely suggesting that since you're a fan of VL's music that there are several more things that I think you would possibly want to hear.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 03, 2011, 09:32:23 AM
Calm down and relax. Everything will be okay. You're really bringing all of this on yourself. Don't be so sensitive. I'm sorry if my comments to you were hurtful. That was not my intention. I was just merely suggesting that since you're a fan of VL's music that there are several more things that I think you would possibly want to hear.
Okay. No harm done. Apologies accepted. ;)
Of course there are several more enjoyable discs of music by V-L that are worth collecting. I am not stopping collecting his music. As you said, there are better performances on the market now and this under-recorded composer is now better-recorded.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 03, 2011, 09:47:04 AM
Okay. No harm done. Apologies accepted. ;)
Of course there are several more enjoyable discs of music by V-L that are worth collecting. I am not stopping collecting his music. As you said, there are better performances on the market now and this under-recorded composer is now better-recorded.
Agreed. We have so many options available to us now. By the way, it's always nice meeting another fan of VL's music. Let me ask you a few questions if I may to get the ball rolling in a more positive direction:
1. How did you hear about VL's music?
2. What was the first composition you heard? Did you enjoy it?
3. Why do you think VL's music is neglected?
Special note: there are many holes in my Elgar collection, but I'm probably not as big of fan of his music as you are. I'll try to list all of the Elgar recordings I own for you and send them to you in a PM. Perhaps you can advise me what else you think I should hear that you have enjoyed?
Has anyone ventured over to this site:
http://www.villalobos.ca/ (http://www.villalobos.ca/)
This website is an invaluable resource for VL fans.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 03, 2011, 08:05:11 AM
I disagree with your disagreement. :) Actually, he does have some holes to fill. He only has one of the Roberto Duarte Marco Polo recordings and all of them are essential to any VL collection, especially the one containing the only recording of the ballet Genesis. He's also missing all of the Choros, which are also essential. The symphonies are enjoyable, but they're not absolutely necessary.
He does have a number of the Choros, if you look back at his list. He's got a range of V-L's orchestral, chamber and solo piano works, there's a good variety there. Getting things like
Genesis is basically a matter of fine tuning.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 03, 2011, 09:29:01 AM
...I am certain that most fans of classical music have less V-L than I have. In time there will be less and less holes in my collection.
You're right, your collection of V-L's music is very good as it is. I have much less of his stuff, although I do have a range of his chamber, solo piano and orchestral works.
Speaking personally, I don't think that there's any need to "fill holes" in terms of anything in classical. I just go with the flow & purchase or borrow things that I think are worth hearing. This often has nothing to do with what people on these kinds of forums have to say or recommend. Eg. I've recently been getting into the music of Monteverdi & he certainly has no advocates here that I can see. I just got to know his music off my own bat, and the fact that I missed out on some 500th anniversary performances of his music last year here in Sydney made me want to "catch up" so to speak. I'm still kicking myself for not seeing his
Vespers live last year, especially since some people I know went & thought it was awesome. But I didn't feel ready & felt daunted by the complexity of his music. Now, however, I am relishing getting into recordings of his stuff...
Quote...Sorry about not being a millionaire and buying all of the V-L discs on day one!
This is true, not all of us have the financial resources to invest as much as some people here. Even if I had the money, I don't have the headspace to quickly process all of this complex music properly after going on a buying binge. I'd actually much rather buy less & absorb more, which is what I've been doing (even if I had more money, it probably wouldn't be much different)...
Quote from: Sid on May 03, 2011, 05:05:12 PM
Eg. I've recently been getting into the music of Monteverdi & he certainly has no advocates here that I can see.
He has me and I have posted about him many times during my period here. He certainly is among my 3 favorite baroque composers, and on my top 10 list overall.
But you are right, considering his historical importance as well as his intrinsic quality, he seems curiously overlooked. Perhaps it is because he composed few works in what today are the standard forms (solo concerti, concerti grossi, sonatas); and in the one standard form where he was a supreme master (opera), very little survives.
I think it's simpler than that - he's pre-Bach, and the pre-Bachies tend to be relatively ignored round here. Only to be expected, I suppose. But put me down as another Monteverdian!
Quote from: Luke on May 05, 2011, 01:48:18 AM
I think it's simpler than that - he's pre-Bach, and the pre-Bachies tend to be relatively ignored round here. Only to be expected, I suppose. But put me down as another Monteverdian!
I have 3 DVDs of Orfeo, two CD sets and one LP set and have seen it live. My favorite opera - ever.
But perhaps back on topic.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 03, 2011, 10:37:28 AM
Agreed. We have so many options available to us now. By the way, it's always nice meeting another fan of VL's music. Let me ask you a few questions if I may to get the ball rolling in a more positive direction:
1. How did you hear about VL's music?
2. What was the first composition you heard? Did you enjoy it?
3. Why do you think VL's music is neglected?
Special note: there are many holes in my Elgar collection, but I'm probably not as big of fan of his music as you are. I'll try to list all of the Elgar recordings I own for you and send them to you in a PM. Perhaps you can advise me what else you think I should hear that you have enjoyed?
Sorry about my delayed response. I had an exhausting week at work. ???
1 & 2. If my memory serves me it was
Bachianas Brasileiras No. 5 I heard on radio about 15 years ago while introducing myself to classical music and getting interested about it. The Adagio must be the most played piece of music by V-L and I have heard it here and there in childhood, without knowing of course what it is and by whom but always having liked it. Anyway, hearing it on radio had me thinking this Villa-Lobos guy is my kind of guy in music.
3. Because Villa-Lobos isn't played/recorded nearly as much as many other (European) composers of same caliber.
I am happy to comment on your Elgar collection. ;)
Quote from: Sid on May 03, 2011, 05:05:12 PM
He does have a number of the Choros, if you look back at his list. He's got a range of V-L's orchestral, chamber and solo piano works, there's a good variety there. Getting things like Genesis is basically a matter of fine tuning.
Thanks for the defence. I have to confess that I haven't collected V-L aggressively. I have bought something when I have felt it would be nice to have a new disc by V-L. I have several "more important" composers but nervertheless V-L is one of my favorites. I have completely ignored "Genesis" so far. There is just SO MUCH other stuff to explore and collect. ???
Quote from: Sid on May 03, 2011, 05:05:12 PM
Speaking personally, I don't think that there's any need to "fill holes" in terms of anything in classical. I just go with the flow & purchase or borrow things that I think are worth hearing.
Agreed.
Quote from: Sid on May 03, 2011, 05:05:12 PMI've recently been getting into the music of Monteverdi & he certainly has no advocates here that I can see. I just got to know his music off my own bat, and the fact that I missed out on some 500th anniversary performances of his music last year here in Sydney made me want to "catch up" so to speak. I'm still kicking myself for not seeing his Vespers live last year, especially since some people I know went & thought it was awesome. But I didn't feel ready & felt daunted by the complexity of his music. Now, however, I am relishing getting into recordings of his stuff...
Monteverdi is actually generally kept in high esteem by those who are into "older" classical music. My Monteverdi collection is very small:
Madrigali guerrieri et amorosi - La Capella Reial de Catalunya/Jordi Savall - Astrée
Combattimento di Tancredi e clorinda - Cappella Musicale di St. Petronio/Sergio Vartolo - Naxos
L'Orfeo - Concerto Vocal/René Jacobs - Harmonia Mundi DVD
I am personally more into what happened
after Monteverdi in 17th century, especially in Northern Germany area
Quote from: Sid on May 03, 2011, 05:05:12 PMThis is true, not all of us have the financial resources to invest as much as some people here. Even if I had the money, I don't have the headspace to quickly process all of this complex music properly after going on a buying binge. I'd actually much rather buy less & absorb more, which is what I've been doing (even if I had more money, it probably wouldn't be much different)...
Yep.
Quote from: The new erato on May 04, 2011, 01:08:46 AM
He has me and I have posted about him many times during my period here. He certainly is among my 3 favorite baroque composers, and on my top 10 list overall.
How many baroque composers do you know? :) You obviously have J.S. Bach and Handel above Monteverdi?
Quote from: Luke on May 05, 2011, 01:48:18 AM
I think it's simpler than that - he's pre-Bach, and the pre-Bachies tend to be relatively ignored round here. Only to be expected, I suppose. But put me down as another Monteverdian!
Relatively ignored yes, but not only "here". Written history of music/cultural beliefs have their strange emphasis on certain periods on the expense of others.
Quote from: The new erato on May 05, 2011, 02:00:50 AM
I have 3 DVDs of Orfeo, two CD sets and one LP set and have seen it live. My favorite opera - ever.
But perhaps back on topic.
I have watched the Harmonia Mundi DVD only once. So I have heard this work only once in my life. Maybe it's time to listen to it again? :D It's definitely the best work by Monteverdi I have heard so far. I read about it's high quality only few years ago in this forum.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 07, 2011, 02:50:02 AM
How many baroque composers do you know? :) You obviously have J.S. Bach and Handel above Monteverdi?
Yes, those are the three majors for me.
And I have tons of the stuff; beside a more or less complete Monteverdi, I have 2 complete Bach cantata cycles, 25 Handel operas and more or less all the oratorios.....but also 10 Lully operas, 8 by Rameau, 4 by Cavalli, and alt he obscure stuff this implies (operas by Mazzoni, Rebel, Terradellas, Cavalieri, Perti or Monteclair....yes I got them as well as Keiser, Conradi, Telemann and Scarlatti), not to mention Schutz (a personal favorite) and all the other German S's, Bruhns, Weckmann, a dozen Buxtehude discs, and all the Italian instrumental stuff, not to mention Bach (I'm talking plural Bach here)...I think it's fair to say I'm reasonably interested in the Baroque period. ;D
Villa-Lobos, anyone?
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 07, 2011, 06:44:01 AM
Villa-Lobos, anyone?
I've tried:
Quote from: The new erato on May 05, 2011, 02:00:50 AM
I have 3 DVDs of Orfeo, two CD sets and one LP set and have seen it live. My favorite opera - ever.
But perhaps back on topic.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 07, 2011, 06:44:01 AM
Villa-Lobos, anyone?
I listened to a V-L excerpt of a string quartet on Amazon and was surprised at how appealing it seemed. In any case, to test the waters, I found a used copy of this release for about 2 bucks. Waiting for it to arrive.
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/7a/d2/ecf2e03ae7a097e5cb882210.L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Starting to think maybe that was a mistake.
Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on May 07, 2011, 08:33:03 AM
I listened to a V-L excerpt of a string quartet on Amazon and was surprised at how appealing it seemed. In any case, to test the waters, I found a used copy of this release for about 2 bucks. Waiting for it to arrive.
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/7a/d2/ecf2e03ae7a097e5cb882210.L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Starting to think maybe that was a mistake.
Why would it be a mistake?
I don't own this disc myself, but it looks like it has some appealing works on it.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 07, 2011, 08:37:30 AM
Why would it be a mistake?
I don't own this disc myself, but it looks like it has some appealing works on it.
It was the string quartets that sounded appealing in the excerpts, but rather than spring for $25, I decided to test the waters with this release, which was a factor of 10 cheaper and had a variety of forms, including "Choros" which V-L seemed to write a lot of. But when I later listened to excerpts of this disc on hyperion's web site I found the music singularly unappealing. :(
Too late to cancel, however, already shipped.
Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on May 07, 2011, 09:01:30 AMBut when I later listened to excerpts of this disc on hyperion's web site I found the music singularly unappealing. :(
That disc hardly contains V-L's very best music but it might grow on you if given a chance. ;)
Anyway I wouldn't panic over 2 bucks.
Quote from: 71 dB on May 07, 2011, 12:03:06 PM
That disc hardly contains V-L's very best music but it might grow on you if given a chance. ;)
Anyway I wouldn't panic over 2 bucks.
No panicking over two buck, but over more junk cluttering up my home. I have half a mind to list it for sale on Amazon marketplace before it even arrives. :P
Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on May 07, 2011, 09:01:30 AM
It was the string quartets that sounded appealing in the excerpts, but rather than spring for $25, I decided to test the waters with this release, which was a factor of 10 cheaper and had a variety of forms, including "Choros" which V-L seemed to write a lot of. But when I later listened to excerpts of this disc on hyperion's web site I found the music singularly unappealing. :(
Too late to cancel, however, already shipped.
Just because something is cheaper doesn't mean it's better or is going to better, especially if there was something else you heard and became interested in, which, in your case, were VL's SQs.
Anybody else own the CPO set of VL's symphonies with St. Clair/SWR Radio Symphony Orchestra? What are your impressions of the music? I bought this set when it came out and after I heard all of the symphonies, I realized just how much I loved VL's music.
I'm slowly getting Brian hooked on VL's music. He's already heard Symphony No. 4, which is an amazing work and he was really excited about the music. If only he would checkout the other ones, but also the Choros and Bachianas Brasileiras.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 15, 2011, 09:13:29 AM
Just because something is cheaper doesn't mean it's better or is going to better, especially if there was something else you heard and became interested in, which, in your case, were VL's SQs.
I didn't get the cheaper option because it was better. I got the cheaper option because it was cheaper, and only one disc, and because it had a variety of "Choros" and "Bachianas," which are collected in the big BIS set. Having listened to the disc, I don't have the sense that those pieces will interest me. The string quartets are still on my list, but not with a terribly high priority at the moment. Lots of other stuff I also want to hear.
Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on May 15, 2011, 10:15:58 AMLots of other stuff I also want to hear.
I thought the same thing until I actually sat down and listened to orchestral works like
Genesis and
Uirapuru. This was all it took for me to become a lifelong fan of his music. I'm still interested in hearing more of his chamber music, in particular, the
Piano Trios, which I heard are great. It really doesn't matter to me whether anyone likes his music or not, but I'm glad it hooked me, because Villa-Lobos has been one of the most rewarding musical journeys I have taken in more than a decade.
If I live long enough, I'm going to go to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil and visit his birthplace. Take in all the sights and sounds that inspired his music. That's how much I love this man's music. I might even take a trip to Sao Paulo and see one of my favorite orchestras perform.
I mean just look at this place!
(http://www.allbestwallpapers.com/wallpaper/travel/image/corcovado_overlooking_rio_de_janeiro,_brazil.jpg)
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
YouTubin' HVL,... Choros 10, and such. I think I liked Choros 11 better. HVL really does a bit of that ole Ivsean polyrhythmic stuff,... lots of business going on at the same time?
What Symphony should I start with,... 4? 10? 6?
Quote from: snyprrr on June 08, 2011, 07:14:41 PM
YouTubin' HVL,... Choros 10, and such. I think I liked Choros 11 better. HVL really does a bit of that ole Ivsean polyrhythmic stuff,... lots of business going on at the same time?
What Symphony should I start with,... 4? 10? 6?
Yes, VL loved polyrhythm as well as polytonality like his old buddy Milhaud, though VL's use of this compositional technique was more listener-friendly. :)
What symphony by VL should you start with? I would start with the 4th. A couple of months ago Brian went crazy over this symphony and with good reason.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 08, 2011, 07:22:40 PM
Yes, VL loved polyrhythm as well as polytonality like his old buddy Milhaud, though VL's use of this compositional technique was more listener-friendly. :)
What symphony by VL should you start with? I would start with the 4th. A couple of months ago Brian went crazy over this symphony and with good reason.
I have to tell you that Lindberg staring back at me is creepin' me out!! :o brrrr
Quote from: snyprrr on June 08, 2011, 07:29:01 PM
I have to tell you that Lindberg staring back at me is creepin' me out!! :o brrrr
Yes that icy stare is quite penetrating. :P
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 08, 2011, 07:22:40 PM
Yes, VL loved polyrhythm as well as polytonality like his old buddy Milhaud, though VL's use of this compositional technique was more listener-friendly. :)
What symphony by VL should you start with? I would start with the 4th. A couple of months ago Brian went crazy over this symphony and with good reason.
YouTubed
Symphony 7,... that one I liked!
No.12,... ok, but not like No.7. No.4 (live) was certainly a Big Business! (check it out on YT), but not really my cup of tea.
I also listened to the first mvmts. of
Piano Concertos 2-5. 3-4 were my favs. I can see if one had to listen to all 20 mvmts. of these pieces, one just might be a little bored, but, dipped in to, they are attractive. Very typical PCs, though (Rachmaninoff).
I have the
Uriapuru(?) arriving shortly (Dorian).
Quote from: snyprrr on June 10, 2011, 07:10:09 AM
YouTubed Symphony 7,... that one I liked! No.12,... ok, but not like No.7. No.4 (live) was certainly a Big Business! (check it out on YT), but not really my cup of tea.
I also listened to the first mvmts. of Piano Concertos 2-5. 3-4 were my favs. I can see if one had to listen to all 20 mvmts. of these pieces, one just might be a little bored, but, dipped in to, they are attractive. Very typical PCs, though (Rachmaninoff).
I have the Uriapuru(?) arriving shortly (Dorian).
VL's
Piano Concertos are some of the weakest compositions in his output. I seldom listen to them as they don't really display his true character as a composer and I also just find them utterly boring. VL is most impressive in my opinion in the
Choros,
Bachianas Brasileiras,
Symphonies Nos. 2, 4, 6, & 10,
Forest of the Amazon,
Genesis,
Discovery of Brazil Suites Nos. 1-4, the SQs, the solo piano music,
Uirapuru, and
Erosao.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 10, 2011, 07:17:56 AM
VL's Piano Concertos are some of the weakest compositions in his output. I seldom listen to them as they don't really display his true character as a composer and I also just find them utterly boring. VL is most impressive in my opinion in the Choros, Bachianas Brasileiras, Symphonies Nos. 2, 4, 6, & 10, Forest of the Amazon, Genesis, Discovery of Brazil Suites Nos. 1-4, the SQs, the solo piano music, Uirapuru, and Erosao.
Are you just sitting at the keyboard waiting for someone to answer this Thread, haha? Pretty quick, there!! I'll seek more HVL on YT today.
Quote from: snyprrr on June 10, 2011, 07:30:38 AM
Are you just sitting at the keyboard waiting for someone to answer this Thread, haha? Pretty quick, there!! I'll seek more HVL on YT today.
:P
Yes, I simply do not sleep, eat, or drink anything until somebody answers the VL thread. ::) :D
By the way, YouTube is one of the worst ways to hear composer's music. Why don't you just go to Naxos Music Library's site? If you're not a member, they give you a 15 minute preview in much better audio than with what YouTube provides.
this...
[asin]B00004WJMA[/asin]
anyone familiar with this recording? I know the CPO/St Clair recording of #10 has been mentioned several times in this forum, but curious about this one. I have #4 & #12 from CPO/St. Clair which is good, just want to pick up a #10 and came across this.
Anyone? Villa-Lobos, anyone?
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 11, 2011, 08:37:03 AM
this...
[asin]B00004WJMA[/asin]
anyone familiar with this recording? I know the CPO/St Clair recording of #10 has been mentioned several times in this forum, but curious about this one. I have #4 & #12 from CPO/St. Clair which is good, just want to pick up a #10 and came across this.
Anyone? Villa-Lobos, anyone?
Yes, that is a very good recording indeed, but of course, this symphony has its problems. It's such a huge, sprawling work. It simply lacks the form and inspiration of some of his best music. The first two movement, however, are reasons enough to hear this symphony. They exemplify everything that was great about VL. I'm just less impressed with the choral/vocal aspect of this symphony. If it was just a two movement symphony, it would be a masterwork, but VL tacked on way too much music that seems, like I said, to go nowhere.
Ben-Dor gives it her all and the Santa Barbara Symphony Orchestra plays quite well, but I would only purchase this recording if you can find it cheap. There are three performances on the 10th on record: Ben-Dor (premiere recording), Victor Pablo Perez (Harmonia Mundi), and, of course, St. Clair on CPO.
For vocal/choral Villa-Lobos, try
Forest of the Amazon and
Choros No. 10. These works hold together much better than
Symphony No. 10.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 11, 2011, 08:47:11 AM
Yes, that is a very good recording indeed, but of course, this symphony has its problems. It's such a huge, sprawling work. It simply lacks the form and inspiration of some of his best music. The first two movement, however, are reasons enough to hear this symphony. They exemplify everything that was great about VL. I'm just less impressed with the choral/vocal aspect of this symphony. If it was just a two movement symphony, it would be a masterwork, but VL tacked on way too much music that seems, like I said, to go nowhere.
Ben-Dor gives it her all and the Santa Barbara Symphony Orchestra plays quite well, but I would only purchase this recording if you can find it cheap. There are three performances on the 10th on record: Ben-Dor (premiere recording), Victor Pablo Perez (Harmonia Mundi), and, of course, St. Clair on CPO.
Any other symphonies besides 4 & 12 that you would recommended?
I have always been curious about
Forest of the Amazon and read many write ups about the 2 popular recordings, now just to choose one!
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 11, 2011, 08:50:11 AM
Any other symphonies besides 4 & 12 that you would recommended?
I have always been curious about Forest of the Amazon and read many write ups about the 2 popular recordings, now just to choose one!
I really like the 2nd, 6th, and I remember the 11th being quite good.
Forest of the Amazon is one of my favorite VL works. There are actually about 4 recordings of it I believe. The best recording I've heard that completely blows away the Heller/Fleming recording is with Nesching/Korondi/Sao Paulo Symphony Orchestra on BIS. If you go back a page or two on this forum you will find that I mention this recording a lot. This is a truly authentic performance and a thrilling one at that. The audio quality is also some of the best I've heard, but I haven't heard bad audio from any of the Neschling led VL BIS recordings.
Here's the cover:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kMAfz8JlL.jpg)
Got that old Mata recording Latin American Ballets, with HVL, Chavez, and Ginastera. I listened first to the Chavez and Ginastera, but, eh, at this point I think I know what 'Latin' Music sounds like, haha (thanks Buena Vista Social Club, haha).
So, on to the main attraction, Uirapuru. Yes, YES,... emphatically YES!! :D That moody Tropical/Mediterranean opening melody sounds so familiar in a Modern way, that minor key Pacific type hovering... Yea, this is the kind of stuff I instantaneously go for. What's next? :-* Amazonas? Anything that sounds like this,... I'm reminded of David Diamond's Symphony No.4 and some Lou Harrison (Mass for St. Anthony you must hear!).
From here on out, I want to be careful with HVL. I'm assuming MI has already done the heavy lifting and it just up to us to decide if we trust you, haha? I'll go along,... you say Choros 10 for vocal, and I agree there: that's the kind of vocal I want from my HVL.
I'll restate that I liked HVL's Symphony No.7, as pertaining to that certain aspect of HVL that I like so much.
Also, I was checking out the Piano Trios 1-3. I think I'm more interested in the last two. No.2 seems to be the popular one, no? There's a tempting cd of the Ahn Trio, with Ravel: it sounds pretty spectacular as a recording?
No.3 is not available by itself?
From what I YT'd of these, these are really languid and in HVL's Tropical Style,... I really liked No.2, reminds me of SQ No.3.
Quote from: snyprrr on June 11, 2011, 09:47:48 AM
Got that old Mata recording Latin American Ballets, with HVL, Chavez, and Ginastera. I listened first to the Chavez and Ginastera, but, eh, at this point I think I know what 'Latin' Music sounds like, haha (thanks Buena Vista Social Club, haha).
So, on to the main attraction, Uirapuru. Yes, YES,... emphatically YES!! :D That moody Tropical/Mediterranean opening melody sounds so familiar in a Modern way, that minor key Pacific type hovering... Yea, this is the kind of stuff I instantaneously go for. What's next? :-* Amazonas? Anything that sounds like this,... I'm reminded of David Diamond's Symphony No.4 and some Lou Harrison (Mass for St. Anthony you must hear!).
From here on out, I want to be careful with HVL. I'm assuming MI has already done the heavy lifting and it just up to us to decide if we trust you, haha? I'll go along,... you say Choros 10 for vocal, and I agree there: that's the kind of vocal I want from my HVL.
I'll restate that I liked HVL's Symphony No.7, as pertaining to that certain aspect of HVL that I like so much.
I'm not sure if I've done the heavy lifting for anyone as you, the listener, has to be make up his/her own mind about whether they enjoy the piece of music or not. This said, I have devoted a lot of my time to VL, because his music moves me. Have you heard any of the Robert Duarte recordings on Marco Polo? These, in my opinion, are essential part of the VL discography, especially the recording with
Genesis, which has to be one of the coolest VL works I've heard.
Discovery of Brazil Suites Nos. 1-4 will also be right up your alley. Have you heard
Forest of the Amazon yet? This is a must-hear as well.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 11, 2011, 08:55:35 AM
Forest of the Amazon is one of my favorite VL works. The best recording I've heard that completely blows away the Heller/Fleming recording is with Nesching/Korondi/Sao Paulo Symphony Orchestra on BIS. This is a truly authentic performance and a thrilling one at that. The audio quality is also some of the best I've heard, but I haven't heard bad audio from any of the Neschling led VL BIS recordings.
Here's the cover:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kMAfz8JlL.jpg)
I bought this recording recently and listened to it once few days ago (multichannel track). While the audio quality is top notch in BIS manner, I wasn't that thrilled by the music. The work consists of over 20 short parts making it difficult to get a hold of anything. This work isn't as "monumental" as I expected. It's pretty light having only some heavier short moments. I liked The
Epílogo the most. Maybe further listening will reveal more treasures of this work?
Quote from: 71 dB on June 12, 2011, 02:03:25 AM
I bought this recording recently and listened to it once few days ago (multichannel track). While the audio quality is top notch in BIS manner, I wasn't that thrilled by the music. The work consists of over 20 short parts making it difficult to get a hold of anything. This work isn't as "monumental" as I expected. It's pretty light having only some heavier short moments. I liked The Epílogo the most. Maybe further listening will reveal more treasures of this work?
This is a pretty large work, 71 dB. It takes time to absorb it. You certainly won't "get it" the first time you hear it. It took me a few times to understand the beauty of this work.
I'm listening to that great old Hyperion cd entitled 'Music for Flute', with 'William Bennett & Friends'. It contains the
Quinteto em forma de Choros
Modinha
BB No.6
Distribuicao de Flores
The Jet Whistle
Choros No.2
Song of Love
(wind) Trio
ack,... there's a skip >:D
Anyhow,... it's just a great listening cd.
ugh,... this skip won't go away,... that's getting returned. :-*
Quote from: snyprrr on June 16, 2011, 07:22:02 AM
I'm listening to that great old Hyperion cd entitled 'Music for Flute', with 'William Bennett & Friends'. It contains the
Quinteto em forma de Choros
Modinha
BB No.6
Distribuicao de Flores
The Jet Whistle
Choros No.2
Song of Love
(wind) Trio
The Jet Whistle, great piece, I have this chamber music disc that I think has been mentioned earlier in this thread, but it was second venture in Villa-Lobos after the
Bachianas and
Choros.[asin]B000FVQUSK[/asin]
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 12, 2011, 08:04:34 AM
This is a pretty large work, 71 dB. It takes time to absorb it. You certainly won't "get it" the first time you hear it. It took me a few times to understand the beauty of this work.
That's good to hear.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 10, 2011, 07:17:56 AM
VL's Piano Concertos are some of the weakest compositions in his output. I seldom listen to them as they don't really display his true character as a composer and I also just find them utterly boring. VL is most impressive in my opinion in the Choros, Bachianas Brasileiras, Symphonies Nos. 2, 4, 6, & 10, Forest of the Amazon, Genesis, Discovery of Brazil Suites Nos. 1-4, the SQs, the solo piano music, Uirapuru, and Erosao.
I am listening to
Erasao, on that MarcoPolo disc. The whole disc is certainly THE one to get as an introduction to HVL. It absolutely drips with humidity,... HVL is the TraveLogue Composer par excellence, and I like the scenery he paints here. I especially liked
Amazonas. Have yet to get to
Dawn in a Tropical Forest. Oh, and
Genesis was...yes... very good stuff there. Yea, I like this movie! ;) And it just goes on,... surely this is what imagination sounds like.
This is some pretty ultra modern type 'normal' music. I hear all kinds of avant reminders. This is the One Perfect HVL Disc for me! :-* BUYITNOOOWWW!!! :o
Quote from: snyprrr on June 27, 2011, 06:47:43 PM
I am listening to Erasao, on that MarcoPolo disc. The whole disc is certainly THE one to get as an introduction to HVL. It absolutely drips with humidity,... HVL is the TraveLogue Composer par excellence, and I like the scenery he paints here. I especially liked Amazonas. Have yet to get to Dawn in a Tropical Forest. Oh, and Genesis was...yes... very good stuff there. Yea, I like this movie! ;) And it just goes on,... surely this is what imagination sounds like.
This is some pretty ultra modern type 'normal' music. I hear all kinds of avant reminders. This is the One Perfect HVL Disc for me! :-* BUYITNOOOWWW!!! :o
Glad you enjoyed this disc, snyprrr. It is indeed excellent. It's one of my desert island discs no doubt about it. Robert Duarte and this Slovak forces should be commended for recording.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 27, 2011, 06:51:36 PM
Glad you enjoyed this disc, snyprrr. It is indeed excellent. It's one of my desert island discs no doubt about it. Robert Duarte and this Slovak forces should be commended for recording.
Really? ::) You've got to stop this lurking around the HVL Thread!! :o
Quote from: snyprrr on June 27, 2011, 06:56:23 PM
Really? ::) You've got to stop this lurking around the HVL Thread!! :o
???
Okay, now what did I do? I'm not lurking around anymore than you're lurking around here. All I said was I'm glad you enjoyed this recording. I thought this was a good thing?
You didn't get the joke? You're not lurking; you ARE the VL thread!
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 27, 2011, 06:57:35 PM
???
Okay, now what did I do? I'm not lurking around anymore than you're lurking around here. All I said was I'm glad you enjoyed this recording. I thought this was a good thing?
there there, I was jus' ribbin' ya
Quote from: The new erato on June 28, 2011, 12:07:21 AM
You didn't get the joke? You're not lurking; you ARE the VL thread!
exactly!
Quote from: The new erato on June 28, 2011, 12:07:21 AM
You didn't get the joke? You're not lurking; you ARE the VL thread!
:P
Sorry but humor doesn't translate too well over the Internet.
Quote from: snyprrr on June 28, 2011, 06:40:31 AMthere there, I was jus' ribbin' ya
No hard feelings. I didn't know you were joking around with me.
Finally listening to to Keith S, conducting the Choros 8 & 9 (actually first time hearing the music). Actually just the tiniest sliver tamer than I would have been able to handle, but the winning atmosphere definitely makes it 'Morning Music' for me! I'm sure the recording could be improved on, but it served its purpose. Just another great introduction to HVL: lush, kitchen-sink jungle music without vocals, very evocative.
Quote from: snyprrr on November 04, 2011, 08:17:43 PM
Finally listening to to Keith S, conducting the Choros 8 & 9 (actually first time hearing the music). Actually just the tiniest sliver tamer than I would have been able to handle, but the winning atmosphere definitely makes it 'Morning Music' for me! I'm sure the recording could be improved on, but it served its purpose. Just another great introduction to HVL: lush, kitchen-sink jungle music without vocals, very evocative.
Yeah, Kenneth Schermerhorn's performance is good, but Neschling's is so much better plus he has the Sao Paulo Symphony Orchestra at his disposal which are just an amazing group of musicians. It also helps to have BIS record the performance. :) Glad you enjoyed these two works as much as I have.
Quote from: Mirror Image on December 05, 2011, 07:10:48 PM
Yeah, Kenneth Schermerhorn's performance is good, but Neschling's is so much better plus he has the Sao Paulo Symphony Orchestra at his disposal which are just an amazing group of musicians. It also helps to have BIS record the performance. :) Glad you enjoyed these two works as much as I have.
I was listening again the other day (3 cds). It was a bit to much 'monumental' music for one sitting, perhaps, haha?
Frankly, Schermerhorn may actually be all right, perhaps... No, it needs The Treatment,... I can imagine that huge BIS sound absorbing this score. You really need total detail exposed here.
It's getting winter here,... hard for me to listen to HVL right now,... am pulling out Frank Martin, and paler and more limpid music out,... I've been considering studying the Koecklin(?; sorry!) Thread for some really foggy day Impressionism.
Quote from: snyprrr on December 05, 2011, 08:07:28 PM
I was listening again the other day (3 cds). It was a bit to much 'monumental' music for one sitting, perhaps, haha? Frankly, Schermerhorn may actually be all right, perhaps... No, it needs The Treatment,... I can imagine that huge BIS sound absorbing this score. You really need total detail exposed here.
It's getting winter here,... hard for me to listen to HVL right now,... am pulling out Frank Martin, and paler and more limpid music out,... I've been considering studying the Koecklin(?; sorry!) Thread for some really foggy day Impressionism.
It may be approaching winter, but it's still a hot, summer day with VL's music and one I prefer to bask in at the moment. 8) Anyway, I'm not too fond of Frank Martin. As for Koechlin,
Le buisson ardent will do nicely. :)
Happy Birthday, Villa-Lobos!
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 05, 2012, 07:48:12 PM
Happy Birthday, Villa-Lobos!
Amazing! That explains my HVL binge yesterday!! Simply amazing. (shaking head)
Quote from: snyprrr on March 05, 2012, 08:20:04 PM
Amazing! That explains my HVL binge yesterday!! Simply amazing. (shaking head)
Well there you go! :D
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 28, 2011, 08:10:27 AM
:P
Sorry but humor doesn't translate too well over the Internet.
You're telling me! :(
;D
"Humour" ??? ??? ???
What's Humour ??? ???
Quote from: Dundonnell on March 06, 2012, 07:51:12 AM
"Humour" ??? ??? ???
What's Humour ??? ???
I thought it was that stuff that oozed out of a sore? :o :-\
Quote from: Dundonnell on March 06, 2012, 07:51:12 AM
"Humour" ??? ??? ???
What's Humour ??? ???
I'll look it up in the dictionary,now!
Is it funny? :(
Choros 11
I listened to 2/3 of this piece on YT, thinking it had been hyped as HVL's greatest work, but I went back to 8-9 (Marco Polo) and found them quite more perfect.
I'm quite satisfied with the two Marco Polo discs (the other with Genesis, et al), and the Dorian recording of Uripuru, but a little voice says I'm lacking in HVL. I checked out the Late Symphonies on YT, but no, that's not it. What could it be, Emperor Jones? Choros 10?
I put this answer here, in the the right context, (previously in the Vine thread, it was my fault : I asked Mirror Image about his favorite Latin-American composers...)
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 05, 2012, 06:44:01 AM
Villa-Lobos is my absolute favorite Latin American composer, but he's also in my top 5. Other Latin Americans I enjoy: Ginastera, Revueltas, Chavez, Piazzolla, Moncayo, Ponce, Marquez, Castellanos, Castillo, among others.
I like V-L very much too.
I'm more sceptical as far as the others (at least the others who I know) are concerned :
Ginastera, Revueltas, Chavez (and I would add
Guarnieri,
Mignone and
Santoro) are poor orchestrators; the worse being Chavez. In some way, their music, cold, intellectual, rigid, almost atonal or melodically quite weak, is the opposite of the warm harmonies, the sensual melodies and the colourful instrumentation of the traditional latino-american music . Even when they claim to pick up popular tunes, like Revueltas f.ex, their works sound dry and cold to me. In this respect, the composer who, IMO, had the best understanding of the original features of traditional Latino-American music, who caught the most perfectly its spirit , is probably... Copland.
Piazolla is, with
Brouwer, the only one (I know) who sounds both unique and south-American. And I love their music for these very reasons.
As Brouwer,
Ponce is a guitarist, hence he couldn't be as dry and distanciated as is coleagues, but, even if I agree to say that he wrote some lovely pieces (his guitar & harpsichord sonatas f.ex), I find his style rather influenced by the classical Spanish guitar composers (Sor, Tarrega, etc...) - but I may be wrong.
And V-L, who I think is a great composer, a frenetic contrapuntist, often approximative in his writing because he wrote too much (his pieces were often corrected after him) but full of enthusiasm, colors and lively rythms. I find his work in general rather close to Milhaud's, although it's said that the two never were in contact, and although I find his music much more interesting than Milhaud's.
If I was to make a list of the 10 best pieces (I'm not but I'll do it anyway), it would be :
- Harmonica Concerto
- Chôros nr.7 "Settiminio" for strings
- Uirapuru
- Amazonas
- 1st String Quartet
- Symphony nr.3 "A Guerra"
- 13 String Quartet
- Guitar Concerto
- Dancas Caracteristicas Africanas
- Piano Trio nr.2
Quote from: kentel on March 06, 2012, 12:55:23 PM
I put this answer here, in the the right context, (previously in the Vine thread, it was my fault : I asked Mirror Image about his favorite Latin-American composers...)
I like V-L very much too.
I'm more sceptical as far as the others (at least the others who I know) are concerned :
Ginastera, Revueltas, Chavez (and I would add Guarnieri, Mignone and Santoro) are poor orchestrators; the worse being Chavez. In some way, their music, cold, intellectual, rigid, almost atonal or melodically quite weak, is the opposite of the warm harmonies, the sensual melodies and the colourful instrumentation of the traditional latino-american music . Even when they claim to pick up popular tunes, like Revueltas f.ex, their works sound dry and cold to me. In this respect, the composer who, IMO, had the best understanding of the original features of traditional Latino-American music, who caught the most perfectly its spirit , is probably... Copland.
Piazolla is, with Brouwer, the only one (I know) who sounds both unique and south-American. And I love their music for these very reasons.
As Brouwer, Ponce is a guitarist, hence he couldn't be as dry and distanciated as is coleagues, but, even if I agree to say that he wrote some lovely pieces (his guitar & harpsichord sonatas f.ex), I find his style rather influenced by the classical Spanish guitar composers (Sor, Tarrega, etc...) - but I may be wrong.
And V-L, who I think is a great composer, a frenetic contrapuntist, often approximative in his writing because he wrote too much (his pieces were often corrected after him) but full of enthusiasm, colors and lively rythms. I find his work in general rather close to Milhaud's, although it's said that the two never were in contact, and although I find his music much more interesting than Milhaud's.
If I was to make a list of the 10 best pieces (I'm not but I'll do it anyway), it would be :
- Harmonica Concerto
- Chôros nr.7 "Settiminio" for strings
- Uirapuru
- Amazonas
- 1st String Quartet
- Symphony nr.3 "A Guerra"
- 13 String Quartet
- Guitar Concerto
- Dancas Caracteristicas Africanas
- Piano Trio nr.2
You think Ginastera, Revueltas, and Chavez are poor orchestrators? Interesting, I find their orchestration colorful, well thought out, and incredibly lean in texture, which gives their music a certain rawness, which I happen to like. Villa-Lobos was arguably the finest orchestrator in Latin American music, but I don't think it's fair to discredit these other three composers. They may have not had the European connections VL had but their music is no less appealing and has appealed to a wide audience. Copland emulated Latin American music. That's all he did. He's nowhere near authentic as VL, Chavez, Revueltas or Ginastera IMHO.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 06, 2012, 06:35:42 PM
You think Ginastera, Revueltas, and Chavez are poor orchestrators? Interesting, I find their orchestration colorful, well thought out, and incredibly lean in texture, which gives their music a certain rawness, which I happen to like. Villa-Lobos was arguably the finest orchestrator in Latin American music, but I don't think it's fair to discredit these other three composers. They may have not had the European connections VL had but their music is no less appealing and has appealed to a wide audience. Copland emulated Latin American music. That's all he did. He's nowhere near authentic as VL, Chavez, Revueltas or Ginastera IMHO.
Well, I don't deny the fact that these composers have a wide audience, and I think it's good they have one : variety of styles and aesthetic options makes classical music fascinating. It would be frustrating if all the composers wrote the way we like. By the way, when I assert that the three above-mentioned are poor orchestrators, I don't claim that such an assertion is objective, irrefutable and definitive : it's an opinion, or even less : an impression. Besides, I happen to change my mind quite often, and I'm still open to debates.
Now, back to the matter :
- you say you appreciate the rawness of their ochestration - that's incidentally what I don't like, hence we agree upon the fact that their orchestras are raw. No doubt about that. And now the question is : is a raw orchestration a good orchestration ? Or is it an orchestration made by a composer who don't care about orchestration ?
Brahms is a good example : his orchestra is nor good nor bad, it's uninteresting, and he was obviously not interested in orchestration (compare with Wagner, for ex.).
- you say you find it colourful, and we may disagree about the meaning of this word : to me, a colourful orchestration is an orchestration which makes the most of the different sections, and of each kind of instrument of each section. It can even work with the string orchestra : Strauss' Metamorphoses is an orchestral wonder in this respect.
When I listen to Chavez' symphonies, it gives me the feeling that he composed everything on a piano, and converted it for the orchestra as if the orchestra was only one instrument, as the piano. For example, if you take the beginning of the Sinfonia India :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKoq4KOHUEU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKoq4KOHUEU)
To the exclusion of some specific - and short - passages, it's written in orchestral "blocks" where all the orchestra is the single instrument (there's a piccolo which I find extremely unpleasant which you can hear clearly because it's so high-pitched - same for the trumpets). This tendancy is even clearer in the following symphonies.
And it's obviously very influenced by Copland, I think there cannot be any doubt about that.
Kentel, I like all kinds of orchestration from Ravel (you don't get much more colorful than his music IMHO), VL, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Janacek, Bartok, Vaughan Williams, Stravinsky, Koechlin, Honegger, Schoenberg, Sibelius, etc. For me, as long as the ideas a presented in a clear way, I tend to not have too much problem with a composer's orchestration or lack thereof. Rachmaninov wasn't a noted orchestrator, but his ideas were very clear and presented no difficulty to assess. Brahms was heavy-handed with his orchestration but his ideas were still quite clear. Liszt wasn't a good orchestrator either but this doesn't hinder my enjoyment of his music. There are always exceptions. I think some people tend to put orchestration above everything and while I think it is important, in the end, it's not as important as the music.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 07, 2012, 07:19:50 AM
Kentel, I like all kinds of orchestration from Ravel (you don't get much more colorful than his music IMHO), VL, Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Janacek, Bartok, Vaughan Williams, Stravinsky, Koechlin, Honegger, Schoenberg, Sibelius, etc. For me, as long as the ideas a presented in a clear way, I tend to not have too much problem with a composer's orchestration or lack thereof. Rachmaninov wasn't a noted orchestrator, but his ideas were very clear and presented no difficulty to assess. Brahms was heavy-handed with his orchestration but his ideas were still quite clear. Liszt wasn't a good orchestrator either but this doesn't hinder my enjoyment of his music. There are always exceptions. I think some people tend to put orchestration above everything and while I think it is important, in the end, it's not as important as the music.
Well, sorry if I annoyed you with my remarks, it was not my intention. I just didn't understand why you were surprised when I first criticized Chavez'orchestration.
As for the rest, I agree : orchestration is not all the music, just a part of it - and not always.
Do you really think that Koechlin's ideas are presented in a clear way ? (ok, don't answer, I'll stop, I promise :D)
Quote from: kentel on March 07, 2012, 08:01:25 AM
Well, sorry if I annoyed you with my remarks, it was not my intention. I just didn't understand why you were surprised when I first criticized Chavez'orchestration.
As for the rest, I agree : orchestration is not all the music, just a part of it - and not always.
Do you really think that Koechlin's ideas are presented in a clear way ? (ok, don't answer, I'll stop, I promise :D)
No worries, you didn't annoy me and Chavez wasn't the only composer whose orchestration you criticized. You said Ginastera and Revueltas were
poor orchestrators as well. Anyway, I disagree, so we'll move on.
I'm not going to launch into a debate about Koechlin's orchestration. :) This is a thread about Villa-Lobos. Not anyone else.
That's it! I'm done with Gramophone for good! They did an article on Villa-Lobos' Bachianas Brasileiras and which recordings to buy and just for kicks I looked over the article. The writer said that Batiz's EMI set was better than Schermerhorn's. WTF?!?!? ??? This writer really needs to get his head out of the sand. For my money, there are two competitive sets of this series: Schermerhorn on Naxos and Minczuk on BIS. These are the new standards in this repertoire. I would like seriously lunge a Villa-Loboian spear right at that moron!
Other than this, I looked over the new issue of Listen: Life With Classical Music and was surprised to find an article featuring our own GMGer Jens Laurson. Very cool! Anyway, this magazine looked pretty impressive and the new issue has an interesting section on Stravinsky's Jeu de cartes. It's a pretty cheap magazine too. About $4.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2012, 04:53:02 PM
For my money, there are two competitive sets of this series: Schermerhorn on Naxos and Minczuk on BIS. These are the new standards in this repertoire.
Completely agreed. The Bachianas Brasileiras are a long time favourite, but for me they only really came to life in recent years, thanks to these two superb performances. Because he was the first in the row, Schermerhorn is still my favourite, but that's possibly a matter of first love. I would have loved to hear John Neschling doing it with the same São Paulo SO, considering the wonders he was able to work with Guarnieri's symphonies and V-L's Choros. BTW what a band! :)
Quote from: Christo on March 12, 2012, 12:33:13 PM
Completely agreed. The Bachianas Brasileiras are a long time favourite, but for me they only really came to life in recent years, thanks to these two superb performances. Because he was the first in the row, Schermerhorn is still my favourite, but that's possibly a matter of first love. I would have loved to hear John Neschling doing it with the same São Paulo SO, considering the wonders he was able to work with Guarnieri's symphonies and V-L's Choros. BTW what a band! :)
Yeah, it's curious that Neschling didn't record the
Bachianas and BIS brought in Roberto Minczuk. Still, Minczuk's performances were really good, but I still prefer Schermerhorn.
I love VL's music more than words can describe. The first time I heard VL, I disliked his music. I believe I listened to the Guitar Concerto or Bachianas Brasileiras No. 5 -- one of his more popular works. Anyway, I don't know what it was but he repulsed me. At this time, I was so Eurocentric that you couldn't possibly pull me away from my beloved Ravel, Bartok, or RVW. For some reason, I decided to give his music another chance so I bought the Roberto Duarte recording that featured the works Genesis and Erosao. I was completely captivated by this recording and so I bought all of Duarte's recordings on Marco Polo and once I heard those I bought that BIS set of the complete Choros and Bachianas Brasileiras. I've been hooked ever since.
There's still so much music by VL that hasn't been recorded that it's hard to figure why more conductors haven't recorded more of his music? Is is difficult to perform? Is so unpopular that record labels are afraid of taking a risk? What could it be?
I have Batiz. Bought it about 10 years ago because it was pretty much the only complete set of Bachianas Brasileiras available. Now, many years later, Naxos finally recorded these works and it is regarded better. Again I have the wrong version... ...when I have Naxos people say it's not that good (e.g. Beethoven's Missa Solemnis)... ...classical music is hell because of different versions.
Anyway, I like Batiz so why should I cry over it?
Why don't I buy the Naxos? That is an easy solution except if I do it with all the other wrong discs I have I would need a bigger house.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 30, 2012, 09:24:02 PM
I love VL's music more than words can describe.
Considering that, you certainly put a (futile) effort into it.
Revisiting VL's Forest of the Amazon tonight and what a fantastic piece of music this is. I believe it's syprrr who described VL's music as "everything but the kitchen sink jungle music" and well there are you have it. But under the surface, there's such beauty in his music and a lyricism that runs deep into the music. I really wish John Neschling could return to the Sao Paulo Symphony Orchestra and record more VL. Again, I'm dreaming, which I seem to be doing a lot of lately. :D
This is really a beautiful movement from Forest of the Amazon:
http://www.youtube.com/v/l-Yok6rgpD4
I was favourably impressed by Villa-Lobos' music after listening to some of his symphonies (3, 4, 6, 11, 12) and his Choro No.11, such amazing, enjoyable works. I had already listened to and appreciated the Bachianas Brasilerias, but the symphonies were even better, definitely wonderful, especially No.6 and No.12. The Choro was very fine and lyrical as well, I liked it very much.
VL's music is certainly original, beautiful and powerfully emotional, it shows great harmonic brilliance and melodic creativity, and the orchestration is very expressive and colourful.
I will look for the rest of the symphonies now, and then the String Quartets.
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on May 02, 2012, 11:11:44 AM
I was favourably impressed by Villa-Lobos' music after listening to some of his symphonies (3, 4, 6, 11, 12) and his Choro No.11, such amazing, enjoyable works. I had already listened to and appreciated the Bachianas Brasilerias, but the symphonies were even better, definitely wonderful, especially No.6 and No.12. The Choro was very fine and lyrical as well, I liked it very much.
VL's music is certainly original, beautiful and powerfully emotional, it shows great harmonic brilliance and melodic creativity, and the orchestration is very expressive and colourful.
I will look for the rest of the symphonies now, and then the String Quartets.
Glad you've enjoyed the music, Ilaria. Villa-Lobos is certainly an outstanding composer. Have you heard any Revueltas or Ginastera yet?
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 02, 2012, 11:24:00 AM
. . . Villa-Lobos is certainly an outstanding composer. Have you heard any Revueltas or Ginastera yet?
Why does this seem like ADD, Composer Division? ; )
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 02, 2012, 11:24:00 AM
Glad you've enjoyed the music, Ilaria. Villa-Lobos is certainly an outstanding composer. Have you heard any Revueltas or Ginastera yet?
Not yet; what would you recommend, John?
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on May 02, 2012, 11:36:10 AM
Not yet; what would you recommend, John?
There's a 2-CD set of Revueltas' orchestral music on RCA that I consider invaluable to newcomers. Here's a link:
[asin]B00000K2F1[/asin]
For Ginastera, I would start with this recording of his two masterful ballets:
[asin]B000IY063E[/asin]
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 02, 2012, 12:03:28 PM
There's a 2-CD set of Revueltas' orchestral music on RCA that I consider invaluable to newcomers. Here's a link:
[asin]B00000K2F1[/asin]
For Ginastera, I would start with this recording of his two masterful ballets:
[asin]B000IY063E[/asin]
They look very good, thank you for the suggestions.
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on May 02, 2012, 12:19:01 PM
They look very good, thank you for the suggestions.
You're welcome, Ilaria.
Quote from: karlhenning on May 02, 2012, 11:26:26 AM
Why does this seem like ADD, Composer Division? ; )
I remember being diagnosed with ADD as a kid and it driving everybody bonkers. Now, as an adult, it comes and goes. ;) :D
Quote from: Lisztianwagner on May 02, 2012, 11:11:44 AM
I was favourably impressed by Villa-Lobos' music after listening to some of his symphonies (3, 4, 6, 11, 12) and his Choro No.11, such amazing, enjoyable works. I had already listened to and appreciated the Bachianas Brasilerias, but the symphonies were even better, definitely wonderful, especially No.6 and No.12. The Choro was very fine and lyrical as well, I liked it very much.
VL's music is certainly original, beautiful and powerfully emotional, it shows great harmonic brilliance and melodic creativity, and the orchestration is very expressive and colourful.
I will look for the rest of the symphonies now, and then the String Quartets.
Speaking of the String Quartets, I've been listening to the Cuarteto LatinoAmericano set, and am now have only one more CD to go, plus the DVD performance of SQ 1. I have to say that V-L is actually a greater composer of string quartets than my heretofore favorite for the 20th century, Shostakovich. Shostakovich certainly packs a deeper emotional punch, but in terms of musical inventiveness and showing what a quartet is musically capable of, Villa Lobos is much superior. They certainly deserve more playtime than they usually get.
[asin]B0027ZD0NK[/asin]
Well, yesterday I ordered the Naxos box of VL's Piano Works w/ Sonia Rubinsky, and was thinking of what genre of his prolific output I've not yet heard or own - well, mainly his Symphonies; now these are usually considered some of his 'lower tier' compositions but opinions seemed to have varied - despite these contrary views, I would like to hear these works - the CPO box is the obvious choice at the moment for a complete set, but I've been intrigued w/ an ongoing Naxos project (below left) - SO, would be curious to hear from those who may have heard performances of two conductors/orchestras - thanks for any thoughts - Dave :)
P.S. excellent, multiple reviews on the Naxos website HERE (http://www.naxos.com/reviews/reviewslist.asp?catalogueid=8.573043&languageid=EN#80178).
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/91UJ-uCvJfL._SL1401_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71Ugqn5UxfL._SL1047_.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on February 18, 2013, 03:45:15 PM
Well, yesterday I ordered the Naxos box of VL's Piano Works w/ Sonia Rubinsky, and was thinking of what genre of his prolific output I've not yet heard or own - well, mainly his Symphonies; now these are usually considered some of his 'lower tier' compositions but opinions seemed to have varied - despite these contrary views, I would like to hear these works - the CPO box is the obvious choice at the moment for a complete set, but I've been intrigued w/ an ongoing Naxos project (below left) - SO, would be curious to hear from those who may have heard performances of two conductors/orchestras - thanks for any thoughts - Dave :)
P.S. excellent, multiple reviews on the Naxos website HERE (http://www.naxos.com/reviews/reviewslist.asp?catalogueid=8.573043&languageid=EN#80178).
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/91UJ-uCvJfL._SL1401_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71Ugqn5UxfL._SL1047_.jpg)
Yikes! Sorry for the late reply, Dave. I personally didn't think much of the first installment of the Karabtchevsky recording. The only advantage that recording has going for it is the Sao Paulo SO who seem to have been slipping away since Neschling's unfortunate departure, but even their playing here isn't as strong as it was during Neschling's tenure. One of the things I don't like about this new recording is the audio quality which sounds, to my ears, quite cavernous. The clarity that is needed to get the textures to be caught by the ear just aren't there in the Karabtchevsky. It's too bad BIS couldn't have engineered and released this recording. Another thing I didn't particularly like are the generally slower tempi employed by Karabtchevsky. I've heard, and own, two other performances of
Symphony No. 6, for example, and St. Clair's and Roberto Duarte's easily give brisker, more uptempo performances. I'm sorry but a Celibidache type of mentality does not work in VL's music. :) I really can't think of any redeeming qualities about this Naxos recording. I'm seriously approaching the next release with caution.
Carl St. Clair's complete set, by contrast, is essential IMHO. Not because it's a complete set, which it's really not 'complete' as
Symphony No. 5 is lost but because I feel that the Stuttgart Radio SO are a better orchestra and more committed to the music, which may sound strange, but I've always been impressed with German orchestras. The Sao Paulo SO are a good orchestra, in the right hands, of course, but they simply don't sound convincing with Karabtchevsky. St. Clair offers textural clarity, brisk tempi, spirited performances, and CPO's audio quality is quite fine.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2013, 07:42:39 PM
Yikes! Sorry for the late reply, Dave. I personally didn't think much of the first installment of the Karabtchevsky recording. ............ I really can't think of any redeeming qualities about this Naxos recording. I'm seriously approaching the next release with caution.
Carl St. Clair's complete set, by contrast, is essential IMHO........ but because I feel that the Stuttgart Radio SO are a better orchestra and more committed to the music, which may sound strange, but I've always been impressed with German orchestras...........
Hi
John - thanks for your detailed and excellent comments on these two contrasting recordings; just the 'highlights' above have convinced me to obtain the CPO box, a company that I really enjoy & have dozens of their recordings - will go on my 'wish list' rather than the Naxos (ongoing, I presume) set! Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on March 12, 2013, 06:55:13 AM
Hi John - thanks for your detailed and excellent comments on these two contrasting recordings; just the 'highlights' above have convinced me to obtain the CPO box, a company that I really enjoy & have dozens of their recordings - will go on my 'wish list' rather than the Naxos (ongoing, I presume) set! Dave :)
You're welcome, Dave. I'm glad I could help you. VL's music is a passion of mine.
Man, but that eleventh Chôros is huge!
Quote from: karlhenning on July 01, 2013, 09:40:03 AM
Man, but that eleventh Chôros is huge!
Yes indeed! Have you heard Nos. 1-5 yet? They're
a bit shorter, and no less wonderful.
Not yet . . . I decided on no. 11 to get my feet wet, as it were. Certainly looking forward to exploring the rest of this wonderful set!
Quote from: North Star on July 01, 2013, 11:32:21 AM
Yes indeed! Have you heard Nos. 1-5 yet? They're a bit shorter [...]
I little suspected how wry a jest you were offering, Karlo! At ca. 70 minutes, № 11 must easily be the most substantial, and I did not so much get my feet wet, as plunge into the pool at the deep end.
Quote from: karlhenning on July 02, 2013, 04:29:31 AM
I little suspected how wry a jest you were offering, Karlo! At ca. 70 minutes, № 11 must easily be the most substantial, and I did not so much get my feet wet, as plunge into the pool at the deep end.
8)
Well, plunging right in may work as well as any strategy.
I have still 1½ discs unlistened from the
Bachianas discs, I'll probably listen to them today.
Of the Choros, Nos. 6, 8, 9 & 12 are the next most substantial ones, with No. 12 being the longest at 37 minutes. The Bachianas aren't too short in general, but they're suites with varying movements, and the music in general is much more classically (or Bachianally...) oriented.
Funny you say that, because at wild random, I listened last night to my two different versions of the fourth, Tocata, movement of I forget which of them, and I did wonder what was so Bachian about that movement . . . .
Then, too, my ears may be out of skew to his aims, with my recent near-immersion in the USB Bach edition . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on July 02, 2013, 05:03:56 AM
Funny you say that, because at wild random, I listened last night to my two different versions of the fourth, Tocata, movement of I forget which of them, and I did wonder what was so Bachian about that movement . . . .
Then, too, my ears may be out of skew to his aims, with my recent near-immersion in the USB Bach edition . . . .
Well, I didn't mean that they are
Bachian at all - but, as Wikipedia has quoted the below, they are certainly more influenced (though not all the time) by traditional Western art music. The Préludio (Ponteio) of
No. 7 certainly sounds to me that way now.
Quote from: Béhague 1994, 106; Béhague 2001They represent not so much a fusion between Brazilian folk and popular music on the one hand, and the style of Johann Sebastian Bach on the other, as an attempt freely to adapt a number of Baroque harmonic and contrapuntal procedures to Brazilian music
Yes, that's perfectly fair. And at any rate, good music, which is what matters more than the ideas around the music :)
Quote from: karlhenning on July 02, 2013, 05:28:11 AM
Yes, that's perfectly fair. And at any rate, good music, which is what matters more than the ideas around the music :)
Absolutely!
Brasileiras Nos. 8 & 9, and
Quinteto em forma de Chôros[/i] (for flute, oboe, cor anglais, clarinet & bassoon) are the only ones I haven't heard yet from the set. Next the SQ's, I guess (from Spotify, the Cuarteto Latinoamerico set. I should have bought this two years ago when it was cheap and I had money. :-X)
I was quite wrong about Villa Lobos. I think that Symphony 3 is a fine work. It is moving, especially the slow movement, memorable and exciting. Maybe the last movement is rather densely scored, but I have been delighted to find this symphony. Which symphonies are best? I like no 4 and also have no 12.
Quote from: vandermolen on July 05, 2013, 01:02:57 AM
I was quite wrong about Villa Lobos. I think that Symphony 3 is a fine work. It is moving, especially the slow movement, memorable and exciting. Maybe the last movement is rather densely scored, but I have been delighted to find this symphony. Which symphonies are best? I like no 4 and also have no 12.
Try No.7 on YT. I think you'd like 7.
Quote from: snyprrr on July 05, 2013, 07:14:08 AM
Try No.7 on YT. I think you'd like 7.
Thank you. :)
What is YT?
In my mind, Villa-Lobos is every bit a major composer as Shostakovich and Bartok. He seems, as so often with Latin American composers in general, to be pushed aside for European composers and I think that's a shame. He's every bit as creative as the European composers. For example, a work like Genesis demonstrates his complete mastery of the orchestra and how he was able to build a work from the ground up with one musical idea to an endless stream of one idea after another. For those unaccustomed to VL's sound-world, this can take one by surprise, but, at his most inspired, it's hard to beat him. He will keep you humming for days on end. :)
I think 'Uripuru'(is that it?) is the single piece that would turn everyone on to HVL.
Quote from: snyprrr on July 06, 2013, 06:57:46 AM
I think 'Uripuru'(is that it?) is the single piece that would turn everyone on to HVL.
That's a great work! :) Listen to the Eduardo Mata performance.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 06, 2013, 06:23:33 PM
That's a great work! :) Listen to the Eduardo Mata performance.
Yes, that's The One I have. Sumptuous Dorian sound.
I think Naxos has done a great job with Villa-Lobos, the Bachianas Brasileiras with Kenneth Schermerhorn and now the symphonies, but the chamber discs are perfection, Sonia Rubinsky's piano discs and the chamber disc featuring the group Mobius.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/617ed-eJIYL._SY350_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51S96Re2vJL._SX350_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AP0Vh6pGL._SY350_.jpg)
Ahhh, a year with HVL?! ???
1) I was thinking of the Violin Sonata No.3... or the Piano Trio No.1,... or PT3... I thought the String Trio was just as high profile as the SQs...
2) Any thoughts on out-of-the-way HVL Masterpieces? The last disc I got was the MarcoPolo 'Genesis'- recommended here and rightly so. Also Choros 8-9 on MarcoPolo, and 'Uripuru'(?) with Mata. That's all the HVL I have (SQs with Besslers (great great performances), and the Quintetto/Choros).
3) I'm tempted by the Piano Concertos 1-5, but I fear the Reviews of the music have already put me to sleep. Cello Concertos? One doesn't hear ANYTHING about HVL CCs- there's an MDG disc of the 'Complete' CCs which lasts 38 minutes!!!
4) Symphonies 6,7,8,9,11, and 12 appeal to me but I really don't want to track down the individuals- what's your fav amongst this bunch? I heard great things about 11.
Just get the BIS set with all the Chôros & Bachianas. Floresta do Amazonas is cool too.
Quote from: North Star on May 19, 2014, 12:26:45 PM
Just get the BIS set with all the Chôros & Bachianas. Floresta do Amazonas is cool too.
Yea, I saw that- like the holy grail, eh? haha- ahhh, let's see... mm... $5.42... nah, not today! ;) :laugh:
Quote from: snyprrr on May 19, 2014, 12:08:05 PM
Ahhh, a year with HVL?! ???
1) I was thinking of the Violin Sonata No.3... or the Piano Trio No.1,... or PT3... I thought the String Trio was just as high profile as the SQs...
2) Any thoughts on out-of-the-way HVL Masterpieces? The last disc I got was the MarcoPolo 'Genesis'- recommended here and rightly so. Also Choros 8-9 on MarcoPolo, and 'Uripuru'(?) with Mata. That's all the HVL I have (SQs with Besslers (great great performances), and the Quintetto/Choros).
3) I'm tempted by the Piano Concertos 1-5, but I fear the Reviews of the music have already put me to sleep. Cello Concertos? One doesn't hear ANYTHING about HVL CCs- there's an MDG disc of the 'Complete' CCs which lasts 38 minutes!!!
4) Symphonies 6,7,8,9,11, and 12 appeal to me but I really don't want to track down the individuals- what's your fav amongst this bunch? I heard great things about 11.
Do you own the other Roberto Duarte discs on Marco Polo, snyprrr? Those are the ones to get next.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 19, 2014, 12:41:56 PM
Do you own the other Roberto Duarte discs on Marco Polo, snyprrr? Those are the ones to get next.
The 'frenetica' 'africanus' or something? Yes, I'm in the "what's after the Duarte discs" mode right now.
Here's my general problem with ALL these mid-century, massive output fellas: whether I start at the bottom (usually just 'plain' Piano Music), or start at the top (usually Symphonies), I always end up in the middle- a no-man's land where there are hidden Masterpieces in [plain sight, and lots of drecky dreck to made through- not quite 'Symphonic', not quite 'Chamber'...
soooo, I end up thinking ALL Composers have this- and I've been proven right/wrong a few times. SOOOO... with HVL, AFTER THE DUARTE DISCS (haha), do we go straight on down to the 'Nonetto' and the harp Quintetto (1958?)... I mean, we have no HVL Piano Quintet, one Sextetto Mistico (somewhat hard to get),... the 'Quartetto simbolico'... the wind quintet 'Choros'...
AND... after the Symphonies, all we have is those 'Sinfoniettas' and 'Suites'... and those Cello Concertos that add up to 38 minutes. No Violin Concerto. 5 Piano Concertos no one really seems to get excited over... what am I missing????
Aye aye aye... I'm hyperventilating... seriously... haha... this is what happens with Martinu, Villa-Lobos, Milhaus, Francaix, Malipiero,... ack, I'm just choking on thin air here, haha!! I HAAAAAAVE CONQUERED MARTINU though!!!!! woo hoo!!! on to the next one-
I don't think there's much of a choice in terms of many of these orchestral works if you look beyond the Duarte Marco Polo discs. He recorded some rare works that have yet been recorded again like Discovery of Brazil Suites 1-4, Rudá, Rudepoema (orchestrated version), Danças características africanas, Dança frenética, Dança dos mosquitos, Erosão, Gênesis, and Dawn In A Tropical Forest.
I would skip most of the concertante works with the exception of the Guitar Concerto (probably his best concertante work). They're not VL at his best. Check out the Violin Sonatas and Piano Trios, though. Those are quite nice works.
I just ordered this.
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=133939
On sale this month (which is one reason I got it.)
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 19, 2014, 01:05:52 PM
I don't think there's much of a choice in terms of many of these orchestral works if you look beyond the Duart Marco Polo discs. He recorded some rare works that have yet been recorded again like Discovery of Brazil Suites 1-4, Rudá, Rudepoema (orchestrated version), Danças características africanas, Dança frenética, Dança dos mosquitos, Erosão, Gênesis, and Dawn In A Tropical Forest.
I would skip most of the concertante works with the exception of the Guitar Concerto (probably his best concertante work). They're not VL at his best. Check out the Violin Sonatas and Piano Trios, though. Those are quite nice works.
Well, I've obviously not tried the Choros or the Bachianas. I've just spent hours familiarizing myself (just on amazon), and here's what I got. Very confusing for me:
CHOROS
Choros 6 for Orchestra
Choros 8-9 - got that one
Choros 10 for Chorus & Orchestra - MTT?
Choros 11 - the big one- Ondine
Choros 12
BACHIANAS
1 + 5 for 8 cellos (1 with voice) 6 for chamber
9 for strings or voices
2,4,7,8 - orchestra- these are the ones I have questions about. Make sense for me pleeeze??
3 for piano + orchestra - seems rare on disc (like all this, I thought there were more recordings, but, no)
Barring the BIS Box (for now), what's the skinny? I hear MOST versions have "inaccuracies" that only the Naxos rectifies (BIS too?). What's going on here?
Quote from: snyprrr on May 19, 2014, 04:48:58 PM
Well, I've obviously not tried the Choros or the Bachianas. I've just spent hours familiarizing myself (just on amazon), and here's what I got. Very confusing for me:
CHOROS
Choros 6 for Orchestra
Choros 8-9 - got that one
Choros 10 for Chorus & Orchestra - MTT?
Choros 11 - the big one- Ondine
Choros 12
BACHIANAS
1 + 5 for 8 cellos (1 with voice) 6 for chamber
9 for strings or voices
2,4,7,8 - orchestra- these are the ones I have questions about. Make sense for me pleeeze??
3 for piano + orchestra - seems rare on disc (like all this, I thought there were more recordings, but, no)
Barring the BIS Box (for now), what's the skinny? I hear MOST versions have "inaccuracies" that only the Naxos rectifies (BIS too?). What's going on here?
This should be helpful for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Heitor_Villa-Lobos
As for the inaccuracies regarding VL's scores, this is true at least of the older copies a lot of these conductors were using. The Schermerhorn and Minczuk cycles both use the newest editions, which the printed errors have been fixed. So, in this regard, it really comes down to performances and for me Schermerhorn has the better cycle of
Bachianas Brasileiras. There seems to be more drive in his performances.
Quote from: Mirror Image on May 19, 2014, 05:55:40 PM
This should be helpful for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Heitor_Villa-Lobos
As for the inaccuracies regarding VL's scores, this is true at least of the older copies a lot of these conductors were using. The Schermerhorn and Minczuk cycles both use the newest editions, which the printed errors have been fixed. So, in this regard, it really comes down to performances and for me Schermerhorn has the better cycle of Bachianas Brasileiras. There seems to be more drive in his performances.
Just spent some YT time- I'm convinced I like all the BBs and will have to look at Schwemwehorn.
The big orchestral Choros are much more diverse and bewildering. From my brief sampling of intros,
Choros No.6 jumped out at me as being just the kind of thing I like.
And I sampled the Late Symphonies, and I just about like all of 6-12- No.11 being the one I was least keen on (I also didn't listen to the choral No.10). Oy, I really wasn't planning on getting the whole Box. ugh
Quote from: vandermolen on July 05, 2013, 01:02:57 AM
I was quite wrong about Villa Lobos. I think that Symphony 3 is a fine work. It is moving, especially the slow movement, memorable and exciting. Maybe the last movement is rather densely scored, but I have been delighted to find this symphony. Which symphonies are best? I like no 4 and also have no 12.
Some of the lesser-known orchestral Bachianas brasileiras, esp. Nos. 4, 7 and 8, and Schermerhorn's final Naxos recording was a monumental achievement and is still a fine choice for these pieces especially, also ask for a recommendation. :-)
From naxos.com, conductor Isaac Karabtchevsky says (http://www.naxos.com/news/default.asp?op=1114&displayMenu=Naxos_News&type=2):
"A plan of action, both ambitious and optimistic, was thus drawn up: first, to address all the symphonies in the period 2011-2016; second, to focus on 13 other orchestral works and bring the project to a conclusion by the year 2020. This latter selection was to include Uirapuru, The Odyssey of a Race, Suite for Chamber Orchestra No. 1, Danças Africanas, Danças Diabólicas, Danças Dos Mosquitos, Danças Frenéticas, The Discovery of Brazil, Rudepoema, Francette et Pià, Cello Concertos Nos. 1 and 2, and the Fantasia Concertante for 32 Cellos.
"The loss of the manuscript of Symphony No. 5, Peace leaves an irreparable gap within this formidable project. Sources describe it as a work in the style of Gustav Mahler's Symphony No. 8, known as the "Symphony of a Thousand", for two orchestras, bands, soloists and choirs. Judging by the open-air concerts directed by Villa-Lobos, it would appear to have been a work that built on all the instrumental resources that he had employed up to that point."
...he wrote a piece for 32 cellos?! I gotta hear that.
Quote from: Brian on July 30, 2014, 10:11:57 AM
From naxos.com, conductor Isaac Karabtchevsky says (http://www.naxos.com/news/default.asp?op=1114&displayMenu=Naxos_News&type=2):
"A plan of action, both ambitious and optimistic, was thus drawn up: first, to address all the symphonies in the period 2011-2016; second, to focus on 13 other orchestral works and bring the project to a conclusion by the year 2020. This latter selection was to include Uirapuru, The Odyssey of a Race, Suite for Chamber Orchestra No. 1, Danças Africanas, Danças Diabólicas, Danças Dos Mosquitos, Danças Frenéticas, The Discovery of Brazil, Rudepoema, Francette et Pià, Cello Concertos Nos. 1 and 2, and the Fantasia Concertante for 32 Cellos.
"The loss of the manuscript of Symphony No. 5, Peace leaves an irreparable gap within this formidable project. Sources describe it as a work in the style of Gustav Mahler's Symphony No. 8, known as the "Symphony of a Thousand", for two orchestras, bands, soloists and choirs. Judging by the open-air concerts directed by Villa-Lobos, it would appear to have been a work that built on all the instrumental resources that he had employed up to that point."
...he wrote a piece for 32 cellos?! I gotta hear that.
ok, so will will be getting all the Symphonies I suppose. Good, now I can hold off... ain't like grand? :P
Still, it's a lot of stuff we already have... eh... looking forward to some later Syms. 6/7 was pretty yummy.
I've been following the Karabtchevsky Villa-Lobos symphony cycle since the beginning, buying the volumes shortly after release. My favourite is currently No. 4.
I await expectantly the next volume in the cycle. The previous 4 volumes have been released late '12, early '13, late '14, early '15, so if that pattern continues, I may still have some time to wait. Maybe the next one could be released to coincide with the Rio Olympics next summer, as he's a Brazilian composer. Just a guess.
I came to Villa-Lobos through his guitar works (preludes and Etudes), which are in many ways some of his most European compositions. Quite beautiful really. Then I moved to the Bachianas, then to Uirapuru and the Choros.
I have listened to some of the string quartets on the radio, but I do not have any recordings. At the present time, they are appealing to me.
The guitar works and Uirapuru are my favorites, because they are very homogeneous compositions. The Bachianas and the Choros mixes different styles, which is why I like to listen to them one at a time.
They need to release a boxset of just the Choros. I know BIS have them recorded with the Bachianas, but I already have them and don't need another set.
Quote from: Maestro267 on March 09, 2016, 06:40:14 AM
They need to release a boxset of just the Choros. I know BIS have them recorded with the Bachianas, but I already have them and don't need another set.
You can always purchase the
Choros recordings individually on BIS. Probably will be more expensive but it's really the only option in town if you don't want that BIS set.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 09, 2016, 07:28:02 AM
You can always purchase the Choros recordings individually on BIS. Probably will be more expensive but it's really the only option in town if you don't want that BIS set.
I was soaring with Hindemith when i noticed HVL sitting all alone... and I got out my previous HVL WorksList and began looking through.
1) PIANO MUSIC: Unless you show me to the hidden masterpiece, I feel that this is one area I can just pass over for now.
2) CELLO MUSIC: From what I see, the big work is 'Cello Sonata No.2', which doesn't really do anything for me at the time (thankfully $$$)
3) VIOLIN MUSIC: Well, you can fit the "Complete" on one CD... from what I heard, Violin Sonatas Nos.1-2 are a little more hot-blooded- No.3 is considered the more mature masterwork... can't find No.3 by itself... does have a bit of Janacek/Enescu/Ysaye to it...
4) STRING TRIO- major work, haven't heard it
4) 3 PIANO TRIOS: from what I heard, I liked No.1, very nicely done in the classic French style. The other two are more expansive, but I thought I heard some of the typical HVL rambling/lounging that I don't need at the moment... maybe try No.1
Obviously I already have the 17 String Quartets covered...
5) Now, if we come down from the other end, let's look at the Symphonies:
1-4: not interested in at the moment.
6-7 (Naxos)
10 (Naxos).....................................I'm sure these are self-recommending..................
12 (Naxos)
8, 9, 11 (three separate CPO discs)
6) CHOROS: I guess we'd be mostly dealing with No.6(?)
8-9 (I have on MarcoPolo)
10
11 (big Piano Concerto) who do you like this?
12
7) BACHIANAS BRASILIAROS(?)- HERE'S WHERE I DON'T QUITE KNOW IF I'M THERE OR NOT. SOMETIMES these pieces just sound like really nice movie music, and other times I get the humid Brazil air wafting through... most tof the movements are fairly short, so we're not dealing with anything in the 10-20min range like the Choros...
8) MARCO POLO ORCHESTRAL DISCS 1-4: I have the one with 'Erosion'... maybe the best HVL?... there's just too much of him!!
9) 5 PIANO CONCERTOS: everyone says "eh"?????10) CELLO CONCERTO(S): ????????
11) VIOLIN CONCERTO- no?
All I have are the
17 String Quartets, that one
MarcoPolo/'Erosion' disc, '
Uripuru', and the
Hyperion disc of wind music, and the
Choros 8-9What would be the single best avenue from here???
Quote from: snyprrr on July 05, 2016, 07:24:33 AM
1) PIANO MUSIC: Unless you show me to the hidden masterpiece, I feel that this is one area I can just pass over for now.
Rudepoêma is THE masterpiece of his piano music. Listen to Hamelin's recording on YouTube and judge for yourself. It's his best. Chôros 5 for solo piano is also great. It's a short one, easy to digest, and has a lot going on in its 5 minutes. Bachianas Brasileiras No. 3 for piano and orchestra is more effective than any of the 5 piano concertos (which have their moments, even so). The arrangement of Bachianas No. 4 for piano (I think this one was written before the orchestral version?) is also great. I have not been able to wrap my head around Chôros 11 yet. It's a massive work, has some nice piano writing, but it seems to ramble after some time, only just sounding "nice" and not really leaving anything for you to hang onto.
Listening to HVL is like having one of those satillites that gets 600 channels; all I can think about is "what about the works I'm NOT listening to?" So I'm employing my standard MO; I begin with the symphonies and pretend that that's all he composed. I'm taste-testing on Spotify and am have listened to the 6th, 8th, 11th and 12th...there is a lot of good music in these works. But I hear the siren song of the concerti and Choros, as well as all of those String Quartets. I'm at a loss as to what to listen to after the Symphonies. I'm delaying chamber music for now so it will be on to some of the Bachianas--any favorites? I see No. 4 for piano is recommended...
My favourites of the Bachianas are Nos. 2 (chamber orchestra including tenor saxophone, and Latin percussion in the finale) & 3 (piano and orchestra).
Bear in mind too that No. 4 is also in a version for orchestra.
Quote from: Maestro267 on July 07, 2016, 01:08:44 PM
My favourites of the Bachianas are Nos. 2 (chamber orchestra including tenor saxophone, and Latin percussion in the finale) & 3 (piano and orchestra).
Bear in mind too that No. 4 is also in a version for orchestra.
Thanks. I already like No. 4( Orchestral version) and will soon listen to No. 2. Choros 11 and 12 sound really good to me as well.
Quote from: Rons_talking on July 07, 2016, 12:27:26 PM
Obviously I already have the 17 String Quartets covered...
5) Now, if we come down from the other end, let's look at the Symphonies:
1-4: not interested in at the moment.
6-7 (Naxos)
10 (Naxos).....................................I'm sure these are self-recommending..................
12 (Naxos)
8, 9, 11 (three separate CPO discs)
Listening to HVL is like having one of those satillites that gets 600 channels; all I can think about is "what about the works I'm NOT listening to?" So I'm employing my standard MO; I begin with the symphonies and pretend that that's all he composed. I'm taste-testing on Spotify and am have listened to the 6th, 8th, 11th and 12th...there is a lot of good music in these works. But I hear the siren song of the concerti and Choros, as well as all of those String Quartets. I'm at a loss as to what to listen to after the Symphonies. I'm delaying chamber music for now so it will be on to some of the Bachianas--any favorites? I see No. 4 for piano is recommended...
Again, that MarcoPolo disc with 'Erosion' has four strong works on it. And the Choros 8-12 are all big works...
I'm looking for that "one" HVL SYMPHONY- No.8 was appealing to me. He always has that cut-and-dry four-movements, he's very Haydnesque in his outlook (not in sound). It's easy to say "no" to a lot of his output if you find a few great examples.
Here's one:
SEXETTO MISTICO
It may be on some ChantduMonde disc, and guitar and ensemble piece, earli-ish, very nice. But hardly a four course dinner.
CHOROS 6 & 12 might be on my plate...
Another thing I've noticed is that Villa-Lobos likes to end his pieces in C major (or a variant of it). Examples: All 5 numbered Piano Concerti, all the symphonies I've heard (3,4,6,7,10,12).
I think I can safely say that Villa-Lobos is my favorite composer, so I ought to add something here.
My very first box of anything was the BIS Complete Bachianas and Choros and Guitar. Wow! Just wow. I try to listen to that at least twice a year. And whenever I do I feel like an idiot for listening to anything else. Definitely Choros > Bachianas, but they're all good.
I also have the BIS Floresta, and four Naxos discs (Chamber Music, Piano Music v.1, Sym #10, Sym #12), and maybe half dozen individual works. I'm a downloader – I just picked up Genesis and Rudepoema (orchestral version), both Marco Polo, both for 99 cents each off of Google Play. Not bad eh?
Ironically, because I love Villa-Lobos so much, I have been expanding my collection of Villa-Lobos quite slowly. I want to savor the acquisition/expansion phase as much as I can, rather than plunge right into the law of diminishing returns.
It's time to listen to my new purchases... :)
Villa-Lobos is one of my favorites as well. I think in many cases he still hasn't received his full due, but let's be fair, he wrote A LOT of music and sometimes when someone writes so much music and has a vast oeuvre, it's going to be overwhelming and possibly even tedious for some listeners to dig through that rather vast swamp. The Choros and Bachianas Brasileiras are magnificent. I was less impressed with the symphonies. The SQs are great. Forest of the Amazon is off-the-chain good. The ballets like Genesis, Erosao, Emperor Jones, Uirapuru, and I'm sure I've forgotten some other ballet/symphonic poems, are some of my favorite VL. I also dig all of the 'dance' works I've heard (i. e. Danças características africanas, Dança frenética, and Dança dos mosquitos). Also, the Discovery of Brazil Suites Nos. 1-3 are definitely worth checking out. I don't know much of the chamber music, but what I've heard like the Violin Sonatas and Piano Trios have been excellent. I wasn't at all thrilled by the piano concerti, which I found rather disappointing because of the piano concerti that exist in both the Choros and Bachianas series. Some of the other concerti are awesome like his Guitar Concerto and Fantasia for Saxophone and Small Orchestra. I think this about covers my listening experience with his music so far. I've only been listening to VL for about five or six years, but he remains one of my greatest musical discoveries.
I know what you mean about the symphonies. But I'll still probably pick up one or two of the earlier ones some time this year. I haven't tried the String Quartets yet because I'm not a big SQ fan, but I ought to at least sample them on iTunes or something.
I do have my eye on the Discovery of Brazil Suites, in light of some of your earlier comments.
You might like Quarteto simbólico for Harp, Celeste, Flute, Alto Sax and Voices. Also the Harmonica Concerto is worth a listen.
Let me push this superb disc:
[asin]B004GX91YS[/asin]
I don't know as much as his work as Mirror Image, but from what I know, he gives a fair assessment of Villa Lobos' strength/weaknesses. He has some fine piano music as well.
Quote from: Judge Fish on January 03, 2017, 08:36:16 PM
I know what you mean about the symphonies. But I'll still probably pick up one or two of the earlier ones some time this year. I haven't tried the String Quartets yet because I'm not a big SQ fan, but I ought to at least sample them on iTunes or something.
I do have my eye on the Discovery of Brazil Suites, in light of some of your earlier comments.
You might like Quarteto simbólico for Harp, Celeste, Flute, Alto Sax and Voices. Also the Harmonica Concerto is worth a listen.
Thanks for the recommendations. I've heard the
Harmonica Concerto before, but I don't believe I own a performance of it. The harmonica isn't exactly an instrument I have much interest in. ;) VL's SQs were surprisingly good and, like you, I'm not a really big fan of this particular medium. I was quite saddened when I learned John Neschling left the Sao Paulo SO many years ago as he has recorded so much excellent VL for the BIS label. He's still recording for BIS, but sadly no more VL from him. :(
I'm listening to the Quarteto simbólico for Harp, Celeste, Flute, Alto Sax and Voices right now. It's better than I remembered! It's on an album called ChamberSax, from Kyle Horch et al. I don't know anything about the rest of the album, but this work is trippy city. Composed in 1921. It sounds like Langgaard got lost in the jungle.
Dancas Brasileiras, from Minczuk and Sao Paulo on BIS, is also an awsome, fun album, by the way.
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0003/290/MI0003290485.jpg)
It's got VL's Danca frenetica on it.
The eminent Brazilian pianist, Marcelo Bratke, who recorded all of Villa Lobos' piano works, had an incredible life. I stumbled on him and his story, playing in public with hardly seeing the keyboard, the musicians or the stage, going to Juilliard without being able to see what was written on the blackboard, even driving cars in traffic. The miracle is that he was able to regain much of his sight through a operation. His playing is simply prodigious.
https://www.amazon.com/Heitor-Villa-Lobos-Obra-Completa-Piano/dp/B00JSRXF9Y
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1247273/Virtuosos-incredible-secret--One-worlds-greatest-classical-pianists-reveals-blind-life.html
Quote from: The new erato on January 03, 2017, 08:37:32 PM
I don't know as much as his work as Mirror Image, but from what I know, he gives a fair assessment of Villa Lobos' strength/weaknesses. He has a lot of excellent piano music as well.
FTFY
I am about 3/4 of the way through Sonia Rubinsky's 8 CD set of the piano music. Almost all of it deserves the comment "this music should be much better known than it currently is".
I wonder when volume 5 of the Karabtchevsky symphony cycle is coming out. It's been 21 months since the last disc (Sym. 12/Uirapuru/Mandu-carara) was released. I would've thought that a disc would've been released to coincide with Villa-Lobos' home country hosting the greatest sporting event of them all, the Olympics. But obviously that didn't happen.
Although I do recall that the first pair of discs was released within 6 months of each other, then we had a considerable gap before volume 3, with volume 4 following quickly. So this means when volume 5 does come out, volume 6 should theoretically follow within a year of that.
Looking through some of my older posts in this thread and, man, I sounded like a complete jerk (probably still do...), but sorry to those I responded to that took what I said wrongly...you certainly weren't off-the-mark in your reactions.
Boy, this thread is already up to page 14? That's impressive, especially since it's Villa-Lobos. Certainly not to everyone's tastes I'm sure.
For US GMG members, the Villa-Lobos set of SQs on the Dorian label is $29.99 (w/ free shipping and free two-day shipping, of course, for Prime members). I haven't seen this particular this low before. For my money, it's much more beautifully presented than the Brilliant Classics reissue. This set also comes with a DVD of some performances and the members of the Cuarteto Latinoamericano discussing VL's music. Definitely worth looking into if you don't own this set and don't like the cheap presentation of the Brilliant Classics set.
[asin]B01DE364EK[/asin]
Ordered through the link above. Thanks for pointing that low price out. I haven't been able to find cheaper anywhere. And I know cheap!
Hope GMG gets a commission!
Quote from: Maestro267 on January 06, 2017, 03:01:36 AM
I wonder when volume 5 of the Karabtchevsky symphony cycle is coming out.
Well, this question has been answered now. Obviously it'll take a few more listens to familiarise myself with them, but I love the symphonies 8, 9 & 11 on volume 5.
Quote from: The new erato on January 03, 2017, 08:37:32 PMLet me push this superb disc:
[asin]B004GX91YS[/asin]
I don't know as much as his work as Mirror Image, but from what I know, he gives a fair assessment of Villa Lobos' strength/weaknesses. He has some fine piano music as well.
Half a year ago, it was dirt cheap at JPC - but the price had gone up again when I was planning to order it. Waiting for the next opportunity. :D
Quote from: Fidgety on September 26, 2017, 07:11:12 AM
Ordered through the link above. Thanks for pointing that low price out. I haven't been able to find cheaper anywhere. And I know cheap!
Hope GMG gets a commission!
8) Awesome! Glad you jumped on this deal. It won't last forever!
Working thru the symphony series with the Sao Paulo Symphony on Naxos. The symphonies are entertaining, by my favorite so far is their recording of Uiraparu, which is the best I've heard.
[asin]B00U2OT3IE[/asin]
Quote from: Daverz on September 26, 2017, 09:30:49 PM
Working thru the symphony series with the Sao Paulo Symphony on Naxos. The symphonies are entertaining, by my favorite so far is their recording of Uiraparu, which is the best I've heard.
[asin]B00U2OT3IE[/asin]
It looks like all the Late Symphonies are out (sorry, getting late to the game). Which are your fav of 7-12?
Quote from: Daverz on September 26, 2017, 09:30:49 PM
Working thru the symphony series with the Sao Paulo Symphony on Naxos. The symphonies are entertaining, by my favorite so far is their recording of Uiraparu, which is the best I've heard.
[asin]B00U2OT3IE[/asin]
I'm a hardcore Villa-Lobos fan as my previous posts in this thread will indicate, but I cannot for the life of me out
why I don't enjoy the symphonies more than I do. The 4th, 6th, and 10th are my favorites, but, with the exception of the SQs, I believe he works better in freer forms like the
Choros or
Bachianas Brasileiras series for example. When you try to 'cage' mist, it simply escapes as it can't be contained. I feel the same way about V-L.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 29, 2017, 05:33:06 PM
I'm a hardcore Villa-Lobos fan as my previous posts in this thread will indicate, but I cannot for the life of me out why I don't enjoy the symphonies more than I do. The 4th, 6th, and 10th are my favorites, but, with the exception of the SQs, I believe he works better in freer forms like the Choros or Bachianas Brasileiras series for example. When you try to 'cage' mist, it simply escapes as it can't be contained. I feel the same way about V-L.
Well, I listened to about three minutes of the openings of Symphonies 6-12, excluding 10. Yea, not as impressed this time around... No.8 started with the most difference, but I couldn't tell you now what is what. Thankfully, I can skip that RabbitHole fr now.
Ordered my first disc of Chôros, on the BIS label: No. 5 for piano, No. 7 for septet and No. 11 for piano and orchestra.
I listen mainly to the string quartets and the works for guitar. I am not much of an orchestral music fan, so I've bypassed that part of his output, but thoroughly enjoy the solo and chamber works I've heard.
Next up, the solo piano music.
I think I'm beginning to get a grip on why I find a lot of chamber music doesn't grab me; it's because many standard ensembles involve instruments in the same family, the string quartet for example. There's not much variety in sounds. But I'm starting to find chamber music scored for more interesting varieties of instruments, mixtures of winds and strings, with piano and/or percussion involved too.
Some of the Chôros, for instance, are scored for small ensembles, but with more variety. For example, No. 7 is scored for flute, oboe, clarinet, alto saxophone, bassoon, violin, cello and an offstage tam-tam (ad lib.)
Quote from: Maestro267 on November 27, 2019, 04:50:35 AM
Ordered my first disc of Chôros, on the BIS label: No. 5 for piano, No. 7 for septet and No. 11 for piano and orchestra.
Very nice!
Chôros No. 11 is a massive 'piano concerto' a la Busoni sans the choir. ;) I hope you decide to get all of those BIS recordings. Do you already know the
Bachianas Brasileiras?
I have to say Bachianas Brasileiras is my favorite Villa-Lobos. I listened to Nos. 1-3 today (EMI/Bátiz). No. 3 rules. 0:)
Quote from: 71 dB on November 27, 2019, 10:59:46 AM
I have to say Bachianas Brasileiras is my favorite Villa-Lobos. I listened to Nos. 1-3 today (EMI/Bátiz). No. 3 rules. 0:)
I've been listening a lot to Symphony 3 'War' and No.4 'Victory' recently. These are my favourites.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 27, 2019, 06:19:04 AM
Very nice! Chôros No. 11 is a massive 'piano concerto' a la Busoni sans the choir. ;) I hope you decide to get all of those BIS recordings. Do you already know the Bachianas Brasileiras?
I'm definitely going to get the other BIS recordings, eventually. I've been looking at them for a while, as they're the only "complete" set of the Chôros.
And yes, I do have all 9 Bachianas Brasileiras. They were the first HVL works I heard. A few years ago, I picked up the Batiz set, which also includes Momoprecoce (another piano/orchestra work) and the Guitar Concerto. Part of me would be interested to hear the original/alternate versions of No.4 (for solo piano) and No. 9 (for choir), but this Batiz set is more than covering for me atm.
Quote from: vandermolen on November 27, 2019, 09:16:48 PM
I've been listening a lot to Symphony 3 'War' and No.4 'Victory' recently. These are my favourites.
I like no. 6 "On the Outline of the Mountains of Brazil" very much. Apparently Villa-Lobos actually traced the outline of a mountain range onto a piece of graph paper and let it determine the melodic contour of the music! Thankfully, the effect doesn't end up sounding contrived at all. I don't know most of V-L's other symphonies very well, a situation which I hope to rectify!
Quote from: kyjo on November 28, 2019, 08:51:02 AM
I like no. 6 "On the Outline of the Mountains of Brazil" very much. Apparently Villa-Lobos actually traced the outline of a mountain range onto a piece of graph paper and let it determine the melodic contour of the music! Thankfully, the effect doesn't end up sounding contrived at all. I don't know most of V-L's other symphonies very well, a situation which I hope to rectify!
I must give No.6 another listen to. I have a recording on Naxos.
Quote from: kyjo on November 28, 2019, 08:51:02 AM
Apparently Villa-Lobos actually traced the outline of a mountain range onto a piece of graph paper and let it determine the melodic contour of the music!
Thus pre-empting John Cage's similar technique when composing Atlas Eclipticalis by some 16 years or so.
The other day I was listening to the 7th SQ. Needless to say it was fantastic with an exciting and memorable peroration. IIRC all of them share that greatness, though the first quartets are more tonal with lots of folk music influence, therefore they are very tuneful and cheerful.
Quote from: Maestro267 on November 28, 2019, 02:59:24 AM
I'm definitely going to get the other BIS recordings, eventually. I've been looking at them for a while, as they're the only "complete" set of the Chôros.
And yes, I do have all 9 Bachianas Brasileiras. They were the first HVL works I heard. A few years ago, I picked up the Batiz set, which also includes Momoprecoce (another piano/orchestra work) and the Guitar Concerto. Part of me would be interested to hear the original/alternate versions of No.4 (for solo piano) and No. 9 (for choir), but this Batiz set is more than covering for me atm.
This could be looked at as a grand statement, but I believe the
Chôros to be Villa-Lobos' greatest achievement. Everything that's remarkable about the composer is found within these works.
I have to say, even if the symphonies are not quite as unique as works like the Bachianas Brasileiras or the Chôros, they are still absolutely sound very much like Villa-Lobos.
I listened to the rest of the Bachinas Brasileiras. I had not listened to these works for years (15 maybe)! Revisiting these was exciting! It was discovering music long lost. My favorites of these are 3, 4 and 7. Then 5, 2 and 1 and finally 6, 8 and 9 are the weakest, as if Villa-Lobos lost his touch with the later ones. The Guitar Concerto on the Batiz set is boring...
It seems most Villa-Lobos isn't really my thing, but those few compositions that are are wonderful. No wonder I have lost interest when exploring outside Bachinas Brasileiras and even out of those it's really 3, 4 and 7... ...i think Villa-Lobos is a brilliant emotional composer, but not a great intellectual composer.
I always see the Mike Tilson Thomas CD of Villa-Lobos Bachianas at the local record shop, the one with the cheesy cover with the conductor holding a parrot. I'm growing a little interest in Villa-Lobos (I just ordered his complete guitar music on Naxos) and I'm wondering if this MTT disc would be a good place to start with his orchestral music. Should I? Or should I hold out for the Naxos CDs with the Bachianas/Choros, or the BIS issues, or whatever else? Bear in mind that I am a total newcomer to this composer.
It looks like the MTT disc isn't the complete Bachianas. I'd absolutely recommend getting a complete set (at least one version of all nine works on what usually amounts to a 3-CD set). Schermerhorn (Naxos) and Batiz (EMI) are both excellent complete sets. With the Batiz set, you get the extras of Momoprecoce (a 23-minute work for piano and orchestra) and the Guitar Concerto (which I find alright personally, contrary to 71 db above). It's not as exciting or colourful as other VL works, but it does what it sets out to do quite alright.
Quote from: 71 dB on November 29, 2019, 09:08:53 AM
I listened to the rest of the Bachinas Brasileiras. I had not listened to these works for years (15 maybe)! Revisiting these was exciting! It was discovering music long lost. My favorites of these are 3, 4 and 7. Then 5, 2 and 1 and finally 6, 8 and 9 are the weakest, as if Villa-Lobos lost his touch with the later ones. The Guitar Concerto on the Batiz set is boring...
It seems most Villa-Lobos isn't really my thing, but those few compositions that are are wonderful. No wonder I have lost interest when exploring outside Bachinas Brasileiras and even out of those it's really 3, 4 and 7... ...i think Villa-Lobos is a brilliant emotional composer, but not a great intellectual composer.
Didn't listen to them during the last couple of years, but the Schermerhorn/Naxos set used to be my favourite (own the Villa-Lobos himself conducting, Bátiz/EMI and Minczuk/BIS also).
Unlike you - but I discovered that it really depends on the different recording one listens to - I also prefer Nos. 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8, even 9 above the other ones (2, 3, 6, but even then No. 6 more than No. 1) :-)
Quote from: Maestro267 on November 29, 2019, 11:49:30 AM
It looks like the MTT disc isn't the complete Bachianas. I'd absolutely recommend getting a complete set (at least one version of all nine works on what usually amounts to a 3-CD set). Schermerhorn (Naxos) and Batiz (EMI) are both excellent complete sets. With the Batiz set, you get the extras of Momoprecoce (a 23-minute work for piano and orchestra) and the Guitar Concerto (which I find alright personally, contrary to 71 db above). It's not as exciting or colourful as other VL works, but it does what it sets out to do quite alright.
Ah, but if you buy the BIS set you get not only the
Bachianas Brasileiras but the
Chôros and the complete solo guitar music. Definitely value added I would say.
Yes, but if you can't afford to get all of that in one go...
Anyway, my disc arrived today. Looking forward to enjoying it this evening.
I revisited Discovery of Brazil, Suites 1-4 today (Roberto Duarte/Marco Polo).
Some nice moments here and there but as a whole these are not particularly impressive works.
Quote from: 71 dB on November 30, 2019, 10:46:10 AM
I revisited Discovery of Brazil, Suites 1-4 today (Roberto Duarte/Marco Polo).
Some nice moments here and there but as a whole these are not particularly impressive works.
I enjoy quite a few of
Villa-Lobos's works, but IIRC found
Discovery of Brazil downright awful when I listened to it some years ago, in the composer's recording included in this set:
[asin]B000002SBL[/asin]
Now I revisited Floresta do Amazonas (Neschling/BIS). It's somewhat good work, but imho overlong (almost 80 minutes!).
Ooh! More V-L choral/orchestral music to explore! 78 whole minutes of it too!
Quote from: 71 dB on December 01, 2019, 08:19:05 AM
Now I revisited Floresta do Amazonas (Neschling/BIS). It's somewhat good work, but imho overlong (almost 80 minutes!).
I'm not too fond of this work. Like you, I found it too long and there wasn't enough variety in the writing for me to give a high mark.
Listening to Sinfonía N°10 "Amerindia" (Orquestra Sinfónica de Tenerife/Victor Pablo Peréz/Harmonia Mundi)
This oratorio-symphony is nice and the recording is good. About time to revisit the disc! ;D
Quote from: Mirror Image on December 01, 2019, 07:15:26 PM
I'm not too fond of this work.
Sure you didn't post an opposite opinion about it one or two years ago? #confused :-[
Quote from: Christo on December 07, 2019, 02:59:57 PM
Sure you didn't post an opposite opinion about it one or two years ago? #confused :-[
I did enjoy upon my first exposure to it, but upon re-listening my opinion has changed. I think there some good ideas in the work, but this isn't enough for me give a total satisfactory opinion.
I revisited Piano Concertos 1-5 (Christina Ortiz/Miguel Gomez-Martinez/Decca).
These works don't make me excited. No wonder I haven't listened to them much.
Yeah, I do revisit a piano concerto of his every so often, and I enjoy them, but they're far from my favourites of his work. It does seem to be the case that his "less interesting" music tends to be that written in the traditional classical forms. I love many of the symphonies, but I'll be first to admit the Bachianas Brasileiras are more interesting, and perhaps more "him".
Quote from: Maestro267 on December 13, 2019, 12:15:18 PM
I'll be first to admit the Bachianas Brasileiras are more interesting, and perhaps more "him".
I also feel this way. Exploring Villa-Lobos beyond
Bachianas Brasileiras has been mostly disappointing.
Yes, the Concertos don't belong to his strong output, but his chamber music and tone poems do.
Quote from: 71 dB on December 13, 2019, 11:58:05 AM
I revisited Piano Concertos 1-5 (Christina Ortiz/Miguel Gomez-Martinez/Decca).
These works don't make me excited. No wonder I haven't listened to them much.
As another member pointed out, Villa-Lobos' strong points was not in the concerto form, although I do like his
Guitar Concerto and
Harp Concerto. I'm still on the fence about his symphonies --- I think the 4th and 6th are quite good, but I don't think this is him at his best. It does seem he's at his best in freer forms a la the
Bachianas Brasileiras and
Chôros, but also in works like
Gênesis,
Erosão,
Uirapuru, and
Amazonas. He also wrote some fantastic chamber music, which is worth looking into. Villa-Lobos is a favorite composer of mine and I've loved his music for many years, but I do understand his weaknesses, but, thankfully, more often than not, he played to his strengths and it's those works that make him one of the most individual composers of his time.
I remember liking the Piano Concertos well enough (the Ortiz recordings). I also really enjoy some of the symphonies. I do agree with MI about the tone poems he mentions. An oddly neglected part of VL's output
[asin] B0000045WS[/asin] [asin] B000024OGD[/asin] [asin] B000024OGE[/asin]
As good as those old Marco Polo discs were, imagine what Chandos could do with that music.
I did not even know those discs existed. Fantastic!
Quote from: Daverz on December 13, 2019, 09:35:58 PM
I do agree with MI about the tone poems he mentions. An oddly neglected part of VL's output
Agreed, one of the finest IMHO an unknown gem called
O Papagaio do Moleque (Episódio Sinfônico) (1932), here on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXmOXC3KkTU
Also on this disc, directed by Villa-Lobos himself: (https://www.etcetera-records.com/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/51/4f/514f5628-0453-4d37-8848-661751d48b09/ktc_1216.jpg__1080x980_q85_crop_subsampling-2.jpg)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on December 13, 2019, 01:59:07 PM
Yes, the Concertos don't belong to his strong output, but his chamber music and tone poems do.
I recall the Cello Concerto no. 2 being quite good.
Just listened to the Naxos disc of chamber music (Mobius / 8.557765)
I like this stuff. 8) The Naxos disc is very good. Well performed and recorded.
[asin]B000FVQUSK[/asin]
Quote from: Daverz on December 13, 2019, 09:35:58 PM
I remember liking the Piano Concertos well enough (the Ortiz recordings). I also really enjoy some of the symphonies. I do agree with MI about the tone poems he mentions. An oddly neglected part of VL's output
[asin] B0000045WS[/asin]
As good as those old Marco Polo discs were, imagine what Chandos could do with that music.
Unfortunately that disc is pricy: What the sellers are asking for it is obscene.
Quote from: kyjo on December 14, 2019, 09:38:20 AM
I recall the Cello Concerto no. 2 being quite good.
I had overlooked it. It's fine indeed. The Concertos for cello are the ones I enjoy the most.
Quote from: kyjo on December 14, 2019, 09:38:20 AM
I recall the Cello Concerto no. 2 being quite good.
Absolutely, one of my favourite LPs - in the LP era, before you were born 8) - was an unlikely one with the Vienna State Opera Orchestra (what's in a name) under one Gustav Meier and cello player
Aldo Parisot, yet completely inspired at the right moment when they were recording two of the finest celli concerti I know, both the
Concerto for cello and orchestra No. 2 by Villa-Lobos and the even finer
Choros - this recording being the finest, though I'm forced to satisfy myself with the only recording nowadays available, the one with Carlos Prieto - by
Camargo Guarnieri, the only Brasilian composer surpassing even the great Villa-Lobos IMHO. :)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/913-LFDtA6L._SX522_.jpg)
Quote from: 71 dB on December 14, 2019, 09:42:00 AM
Unfortunately that disc is pricy: What the sellers are asking for it is obscene.
Naxos should reissue them. In the meantime, Presto lists
one two of the discs available on CD and the others have lossless downloads:
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/search?search_query=villa-lobos+duarte
Quote from: Maestro267 on December 14, 2019, 12:04:33 AM
I did not even know those discs existed. Fantastic!
Looks like you're a bit outdated. ;)
Quote from: Christo on December 14, 2019, 12:10:47 AM
Agreed, one of the finest IMHO an unknown gem called O Papagaio do Moleque (Episódio Sinfônico) (1932), here on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXmOXC3KkTU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXmOXC3KkTU)
Also on this disc, directed by Villa-Lobos himself:
(https://www.etcetera-records.com/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/51/4f/514f5628-0453-4d37-8848-661751d48b09/ktc_1216.jpg__1080x980_q85_crop_subsampling-2.jpg)
Yep, that's a great little work and it can be found in great audio via this Naxos recording:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/819YBuY6xTL._SL1429_.jpg)
There are gems scattered through Villa-Lobos' oeuvre that deserve a mention like this one titled
Chanson de cristal which is found here in an arrangement for flute and harp via a Naxos recording with the chamber ensemble, Mobius (a GREAT disc):
https://www.youtube.com/v/kV8Hz2FFxxo
The original arrangement of
Chanson de cristal for voice and piano:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjke8RzoQg4
Quote from: ritter on November 30, 2019, 11:07:44 AM
I enjoy quite a few of Villa-Lobos's works, but IIRC found Discovery of Brazil downright awful when I listened to it some years ago, in the composer's recording included in this set:
[asin]B000002SBL[/asin]
That set is terrible, Rafael. The audio quality is horrendous and I don't really believe that Villa-Lobos was the best interpreter of his works unlike several other composers who had turned to recording some of their own music.
Quote from: kyjo on December 14, 2019, 09:38:20 AM
I recall the Cello Concerto no. 2 being quite good.
It is. The ending of the second movement,
Molto andante cantabile, is absolute magic.
I like Villa-Lobos, not unreservedly, not everything but much of his music I enjoy. But if ever there was proof that writing a successful piece of Musical Theatre is HARD - Magdalena is it. Such a disappointingly generic piece of hokum blown out of the water by any number of other contemporary shows. Sorry Heitor!
Quote from: Roasted Swan on March 05, 2020, 10:00:15 AM
I like Villa-Lobos, not unreservedly, not everything but much of his music I enjoy. But if ever there was proof that writing a successful piece of Musical Theatre is HARD - Magdalena is it. Such a disappointingly generic piece of hokum blown out of the water by any number of other contemporary shows. Sorry Heitor!
Well, this wasn't one of the composer's strengths and I certainly won't deny it, but I love him for his risk-taking even if you or anyone else may think the risk wasn't worth the trouble. From what I've heard of
Magdalena there seems to be some good parts to it, but I would never claim it was one of his most inspired pieces. I think one of the problems that comes from writing so much music is that there's always going to be some weeds amongst the flowers. That's just the way it is, but, for me, and forgive me if I sound like a 'fan boy' or whatever the kids call over zealous fans these days, but I think he still was remarkably consistent throughout his oeuvre or, at least, of the large swarth of music I've heard from him through the years. Am I aware of his weaknesses? Absolutely, but do I really care? Not really, because, for me, he played to his strengths more times than letting his weaknesses show. Anyway, it seems the older I get, the more his music just connects with me more and more.
Does everyone here remember the first Villa-Lobos work you heard? For me, it must have been the Guitar Concerto. I think I remember hearing this work (only an excerpt of it) on our local college radio 11 or 12 years ago and what was great was back during this time the radio station had a classical music program. Anyway, I remember the host saying that was the first movement of Villa-Lobos' Guitar Concerto. And I remember thinking, "Villa-who?" ;D This was the initial seed that was planted and when I got home I bought the Julian Bream recording of the concerto plus some of his solo guitar pieces and my Villa-Lobos journey began.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 05, 2020, 07:10:18 PM
Does everyone here remember the first Villa-Lobos work you heard? For me, it must have been the Guitar Concerto. I think I remember hearing this work (only an excerpt of it) on our local college radio 11 or 12 years ago and what was great was back during this time the radio station had a classical music program. Anyway, I remember the host saying that was the first movement of Villa-Lobos' Guitar Concerto. And I remember thinking, "Villa-who?" ;D This was the initial seed that was planted and when I got home I bought the Julian Bream recording of the concerto plus some of his solo guitar pieces and my Villa-Lobos journey began.
For me it was the Guitar Concerto too, but back in the 1970s. Probably played by John Williams, should check his recordings. The other piece that struck me in those days being the
Bachianas brasileiras No. 5 for soprano and strings. I thought I didn't like screaming sopranos, but there was this heavenly piece and couldn't stop listening. ???
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 04, 2020, 08:58:17 PM
Yep, that's a great little work and it can be found in great audio via this Naxos recording:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/819YBuY6xTL._SL1429_.jpg)
Many thanks, had missed it, ordered for a copy now.
O papagaio do moleque one of those pieces I heard back in the 1970s too, when I started discovering Villa-Lobos. Our local library owned a series of Brasilian LPs (that never made it onto CD) this gem, perhaps his fines symphonic poem, including. Played by different Brasilian orchestras and conductors, cannot remember who (I was a teenager, please teacher).
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 05, 2020, 07:10:18 PM
Does everyone here remember the first Villa-Lobos work you heard? For me, it must have been the Guitar Concerto. I think I remember hearing this work (only an excerpt of it) on our local college radio 11 or 12 years ago and what was great was back during this time the radio station had a classical music program. Anyway, I remember the host saying that was the first movement of Villa-Lobos' Guitar Concerto. And I remember thinking, "Villa-who?" ;D This was the initial seed that was planted and when I got home I bought the Julian Bream recording of the concerto plus some of his solo guitar pieces and my Villa-Lobos journey began.
For sure - "The Little Train of the Caipira" which is the filler on this disc which I bought for the Ginastera/Estancia because we were playing that in our youth orchestra - loved the whole disc! (still sounds good on CD)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51iZaHQn1VL._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)
The original LP only had the Ginastera + the "little train". At the time pretty archetypal awful Everest LP pressing!
Yeah, the "little train" for me as well. On some compilation of random stuff, long since gone. Then I picked up a recording of the complete-ish Bachianas about 11 years ago, and it started from there. 3 years after that, I stumbled upon the first volume of the Naxos symphony cycle and started following along that with each new release.
I am pretty sure it was Bachianas brasileiras No 5 though the Little Train (BB No 2) was on the first Villa-Lobos disc I bought, a compilation on HMV Classics.
As an aside, does anyone have a recommendation for Symphony No 10?. Several versions have been mentioned but not all of them seem to be available.
I have to say only a part (20 % or so) of Villa-Lobos does it for me. Not that I don't "like" all of it, but most of it feels a bit bland to me. Especially the symphonies are disappointing. For me Villa-Lobos is a hit and miss composer and it took a long time before I realized it.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 05, 2020, 07:10:18 PM
Does everyone here remember the first Villa-Lobos work you heard?
Must have been Bachiana Brasileiras No. 5.
Quote from: Christo on March 05, 2020, 10:08:04 PM
For me it was the Guitar Concerto too, but back in the 1970s. Probably played by John Williams, should check his recordings. The other piece that struck me in those days being the Bachianas brasileiras No. 5 for soprano and strings. I thought I didn't like screaming sopranos, but there was this heavenly piece and couldn't stop listening. ???
Many thanks, had missed it, ordered for a copy now. O papagaio do moleque one of those pieces I heard back in the 1970s too, when I started discovering Villa-Lobos. Our local library owned a series of Brasilian LPs (that never made it onto CD) this gem, perhaps his fines symphonic poem, including. Played by different Brasilian orchestras and conductors, cannot remember who (I was a teenager, please teacher).
Very nice, Johan. I would say there's many of the tone poems that I fantastic in addition to
O papagaio do moleque like
Erosão,
Rudá,
Urapuru,
Gênesis,
Amazonas, amongst other works.
Quote from: Roasted Swan on March 05, 2020, 11:02:15 PM
For sure - "The Little Train of the Caipira" which is the filler on this disc which I bought for the Ginastera/Estancia because we were playing that in our youth orchestra - loved the whole disc! (still sounds good on CD)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51iZaHQn1VL._AC_UY218_ML3_.jpg)
The original LP only had the Ginastera + the "little train". At the time pretty archetypal awful Everest LP pressing!
Very nice. I do believe I own that CD --- it's been ages since I've heard it, though.
Quote from: Biffo on March 06, 2020, 12:22:19 AM
I am pretty sure it was Bachianas brasileiras No 5 though the Little Train (BB No 2) was on the first Villa-Lobos disc I bought, a compilation on HMV Classics.
As an aside, does anyone have a recommendation for Symphony No 10?. Several versions have been mentioned but not all of them seem to be available.
I really like the performance of the 10th from Karabtchevsky on Naxos. His whole cycle is worth owning, IMHO. I used to favor the more articulate playing of the Stuttgart RSO in the CPO set, but nowadays I prefer the wildness of the Karabtchevsky cycle. Plus, he's got the São Paulo SO at his disposal and they're a phenomenal orchestra of course.
Quote from: 71 dB on March 06, 2020, 02:05:55 AM
I have to say only a part (20 % or so) of Villa-Lobos does it for me. Not that I don't "like" all of it, but most of it feels a bit bland to me. Especially the symphonies are disappointing. For me Villa-Lobos is a hit and miss composer and it took a long time before I realized it.
I find nothing bland about Villa-Lobos' music. With the right performers, his music jumps off the pages and is exhilarating. I wish I could say the same for your main squeeze Elgar however. To me, you could have the greatest performers in Elgar and I'm still bored.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 06, 2020, 05:58:58 AM
I really like the performance of the 10th from Karabtchevsky on Naxos. His whole cycle is worth owning, IMHO. I used to favor the more articulate playing of the Stuttgart RSO in the CPO set, but nowadays I prefer the wildness of the Karabtchevsky cycle. Plus, he's got the São Paulo SO at his disposal and they're a phenomenal orchestra of course.
Thanks, I check out the Naxos disc.
Quote from: Biffo on March 06, 2020, 06:02:48 AM
Thanks, I check out the Naxos disc.
I remember this performance being quite good as well:
(https://img.cdandlp.com/2018/01/imgL/119047739.jpg)
You might have some difficulty tracking it down, however, as it's OOP I believe.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 05, 2020, 07:10:18 PM
Does everyone here remember the first Villa-Lobos work you heard? For me, it must have been the Guitar Concerto. I think I remember hearing this work (only an excerpt of it) on our local college radio 11 or 12 years ago and what was great was back during this time the radio station had a classical music program. Anyway, I remember the host saying that was the first movement of Villa-Lobos' Guitar Concerto. And I remember thinking, "Villa-who?" ;D This was the initial seed that was planted and when I got home I bought the Julian Bream recording of the concerto plus some of his solo guitar pieces and my Villa-Lobos journey began.
In my case, similarly to
Biffo's, it was either the
Bachianas brasleiras No. 5 or
O trenzinho do Caipira from the
Bachianas brasileiras No. 2 (IIRC, on Venezuelan National Radio back in Caracas). The first LP with music by
Villa-Lobos I bought was a recital by Bidú Sayãpo on Columbia's budget subsidiary label Odyssey, that included that wonderful soprano singing the
Aria (cantilena) from the
Bachianas brasileiras No. 5, under the composer; the other movement,
Danza (martelo), hadn't yet been composed when this classic recording was made.
(https://img.discogs.com/cNSqinWLE1e-T7rFoYKtLa9jDFs=/fit-in/600x616/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-4030025-1530718547-4834.jpeg.jpg)
Quote from: ritter on March 06, 2020, 06:16:37 AM
In my case, similarly to Biffo's, it was either the Bachianas brasleiras No. 5 or O trenzinho do Caipira from the Bachianas brasileiras No. 2 (IIRC, on Venezuelan National Radio back in Caracas). The first LP with music by Villa-Lobos I bought was a recital by Bidú Sayãpo on Columbia's budget subsidiary label Odyssey, that included that wonderful soprano singing the Aria (cantilena) from the Bachianas brasileiras No. 5, under the composer; the other movement, Danza (martelo), hadn't yet been composed when this classic recording was made.
(https://img.discogs.com/cNSqinWLE1e-T7rFoYKtLa9jDFs=/fit-in/600x616/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-4030025-1530718547-4834.jpeg.jpg)
Good day to you, Rafael. Very nice. I think I remember you talking about Sayãpo before. I love the
Bachianas Brasileiras No. 5 with that lovely ensemble of celli. Beautiful sound.
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 05, 2020, 07:10:18 PM
Does everyone here remember the first Villa-Lobos work you heard?
Oddly enough, the first work ever I listened from this composer was Bachianas Brasileiras No. 1 for 8 cellos. I was hooked by both the rhythm and the sound density of those instruments. Upon hearing it I did know he was a promising composer for my tastes, and effectively he was and he is currently.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on March 07, 2020, 06:11:57 PM
Oddly enough, the first work ever I listened from this composer was Bachianas Brasileiras No. 1 for 8 cellos. I was hooked by both the rhythm and the sound density of those instruments. Upon hearing it I did know he was a promising composer for my tastes, and effectively he was and he is currently.
Very nice, Cesar.
Bachianas Brasileiras No. 1 is a gorgeous work. This whole series is fantastic as are the
Chôros.
Quote from: Daverz on December 13, 2019, 09:35:58 PM
I remember liking the Piano Concertos well enough (the Ortiz recordings). I also really enjoy some of the symphonies. I do agree with MI about the tone poems he mentions. An oddly neglected part of VL's output
[asin] B0000045WS[/asin] [asin] B000024OGD[/asin] [asin] B000024OGE[/asin]
As good as those old Marco Polo discs were, imagine what Chandos could do with that music.
Forget Chandos. Have Neschling come back to São Paulo and record them on BIS. :)
Quote from: Mirror Image on March 07, 2020, 08:15:30 PM
Very nice, Cesar. Bachianas Brasileiras No. 1 is a gorgeous work. This whole series is fantastic as are the Chôros.
+1
If I like the Guitar Concerto, where to from here? The other concerti? I have not heard much from Villa-Lobos. I suppose the Bachianas and the Chôros are essential listening too then...?
Coincidentally I enjoyed listening to Symphony No.6 today (Naxos recording).
Quote from: vers la flamme on March 30, 2020, 12:09:54 PM
If I like the Guitar Concerto, where to from here? The other concerti? I have not heard much from Villa-Lobos. I suppose the Bachianas and the Chôros are essential listening too then...?
Sticking with guitar, I'd suggest his 5 Preludes and 12 Etudes.
Quote from: vers la flamme on March 30, 2020, 12:09:54 PM
If I like the Guitar Concerto, where to from here? The other concerti? I have not heard much from Villa-Lobos. I suppose the Bachianas and the Chôros are essential listening too then...?
Of all the Villa-Lobos I have heard I enjoy the Bachianas the most. Exploration of his other stuff often just compromised my interest into him. When I years later returned to the Bachianas I re-discoved Villa-Lobos. Not to say there aren't good moments outside Bachianas for me, but it's hit and miss for me.
I don't care much about the Guitar Concerto, so our tastes may differ a lot. Just a warning. Could be you'd find the Piano Concertos for example more interesting I do...
Quote from: 71 dB on March 31, 2020, 05:30:02 AM
Of all the Villa-Lobos I have heard I enjoy the Bachianas the most. Exploration of his other stuff often just compromised my interest into him. When I years later returned to the Bachianas I re-discoved Villa-Lobos. Not to say there aren't good moments outside Bachianas for me, but it's hit and miss for me.
I don't care much about the Guitar Concerto, so our tastes may differ a lot. Just a warning. Could be you'd find the Piano Concertos for example more interesting I do...
My feelings are similar to yours,
71db, even if I'd include the
Chôros along with the
Bachianas. Yes, there's some good stuff beyond those two sets, but if feels like diminishing marginal returns...
Quote from: ritter on March 31, 2020, 07:21:53 AM
My feelings are similar to yours, 71db, even if I'd include the Chôros along with the Bachianas. Yes, there's some good stuff beyond those two sets, but if feels like diminishing marginal returns...
I don't think I have heard every
Chôros, but what I know they are ok for sure.
I'm one of those who consider him a great composer, beyond Bachianas and Chôros. There are some outstanding gems in his chamber music, just to mention something different to his orchestral output. I don't know his piano music at all, but I don't hesitate it's consistently good too.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on March 31, 2020, 12:37:17 PM
I'm one of those who consider him a great composer, beyond Bachianas and Chôros. There are some outstanding gems in his chamber music, just to mention something different to his orchestral output. I don't know his piano music at all, but I don't hesitate it's consistently good too.
I agree his chamber music contains some really fine works.
His
string quartets are excellent; his
Sexteto místico, and
Quarteto simbólico, are both very rewarding pieces, and Chôros Nos. 2,3,4,7 and Bachianas Brasileiras Nos. 1 and 6 are chamber works. I love his
solo guitar works, and his
solo piano works are well worth investigating.
The best collection of his string quartets is this one:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71qGq%2BO8%2B-L._SL1400_.jpg)
This is a nice record of some of his lesser known, but good, chamber works.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51mIlKTcRGL.jpg)
Of his orchestral music I prefer his concertos, Bachianas Brasileiras and Chôros to his symphonies.
I'm going to put a good word in for the symphonies. They're not particularly groundbreaking, but I thoroughly enjoy them when I listen to them. My favourites are Nos. 2 & 4.
Quote from: Maestro267 on March 31, 2020, 01:09:33 PM
I'm going to put a good word in for the symphonies. They're not particularly groundbreaking, but I thoroughly enjoy them when I listen to them. My favourites are Nos. 2 & 4.
3 and 4 are definitely my favourites. I listened to 6 and 7 yesterday. As often with V-L I liked the slow movements best, especially that of No.6. I didn't really take to No.7 which struck me as a very over-blown and unmemorable affair. I don't entirely disagree with the Amazon reviewer who described listening to Villa-Lobos's symphonies as rather like eating an enormous meal - which doesn't taste of anything! Still, that's not my experience of symphonies 3 and 4.
A quick heads-up...the April 2020 issue of BBC Music Magazine has an all-HVL covermount CD, including Uirapuru, The Sewing Women, Two Legends of Nheengatu, Choros 8 & 10, and Symphony No. 9.
I don't know how long it's out for, maybe a couple more weeks.
http://www.classical-music.com/issue/april-2020 (http://www.classical-music.com/issue/april-2020)
Quote from: Maestro267 on March 31, 2020, 01:09:33 PM
I'm going to put a good word in for the symphonies. They're not particularly groundbreaking, but I thoroughly enjoy them when I listen to them. My favourites are Nos. 2 & 4.
I know for certain that I can vouch for his Symphony No. 10. Some truly awe-inspiring moments combining the best of Brazilian folk-inspired harmonies, alongside some beautiful choir-work. It might be a little
out-there, in terms of its subject material, but I find it to feature a lot of the 'vigour' that I love from his key-works, such as the Bachianas Brasileiras no. 3 & 9. Breath-taking in places.
Villa-Lobos is wonderful imo. The music has some vulnerability about it and is grand at the same time. Been listening to the Neschling box and I leave it near my cd-player for the time being to give it more spins I suppose.
Quote from: Maestro267 on April 04, 2020, 06:40:58 AM
A quick heads-up...the April 2020 issue of BBC Music Magazine has an all-HVL covermount CD, including Uirapuru, The Sewing Women, Two Legends of Nheengatu, Choros 8 & 10, and Symphony No. 9.
I don't know how long it's out for, maybe a couple more weeks.
http://www.classical-music.com/issue/april-2020 (http://www.classical-music.com/issue/april-2020)
Sounds great but as WH Smith is shut, as far as I'm aware, I don't know how I can get a copy.
Quote from: vandermolen on April 22, 2020, 05:13:47 AM
Sounds great but as WH Smith is shut, as far as I'm aware, I don't know how I can get a copy.
It's irrelevant as the V-L is no longer the current issue: Some stores are closed, but those with post offices in them and hospital branches remain open.
Quote from: whsmith.co.ukGiven the evolving situation, we have taken the decision to keep our stores open in the specific communities which most need our services at this time. We are currently operating from 140 hospital stores, in order to continue to serve NHS staff with food and drinks, and 204 High Street stores which host a Post Office in order to provide vital banking and postal services to these communities. All other WHSmith stores are now temporarily closed.
Ordered volumes 2 and 3 of the BIS Choros series. For those keeping score at home, that's everything except Nos. 5, 7 & 11, which I picked up last autumn.
Quote from: Maestro267 on May 22, 2020, 09:59:40 AM
Ordered volumes 2 and 3 of the BIS Choros series. For those keeping score at home, that's everything except Nos. 5, 7 & 11, which I picked up last autumn.
I wasn't keeping score, but that's great. Villa-Lobos is one of my favorites. The
Chôros are magnificent works.
Well, the discs have arrived, but unfortunately one of them (Vol. 3) is going right back, with scratches on the disc affecting play. What's weird is that the disc feels smooth when I run my fingernail over it. I've had discs with worse scratching on them play perfectly well. At least I have volume 2 though.
My
Villa-Lobos collection is up for review - own nearly three dozen discs (several boxes) - expect to add or replace some recordings, but thought that Heitor's own thread will generate a better reaction - first discs up are some from the Duarte Marco Polo (MP) series - just own the first two below and streamed the 3rd one of the Suites which I really enjoyed! Last two shown of some chamber works.
My first question concerns the Duarte recordings on MP (surprised Naxos has not boxed these up?) - which are favs and any 'real' competition? Dave :)
ADDENDUM: Looking at the Marco Polo Catalog on the Naxos Website (https://www.naxos.com/sharedfiles/PDF/Marco-Polo_Catalogue_2018.pdf), appears that
Duarte made 5 recordings, so my main decision is whether I need 2 of the 3 others (already have a good Symphony set)?
Quote*Discovery of Brazil Suites Nos. 1-4 Slovak RSO (Bratislava) / Roberto Duarte
*Gênesis • Erosão • Amazonas Dawn in a Tropical Forest Czecho-Slovak RSO, Bratislava Roberto Duarte
*Pequena Suíte - Bachianas brasilerias Nos. 2, 5 and 6 Assobio a jato • Capriccio • Prelúdio • Elégie
(Emmanuel Pahud, Flute, Friedrich Edelmann, Bassoon, Rebecca Rust, Cello / David Apter, Piano)
*Rudepoema • Danças características africanas Danca frenética • Danca dos mosquitos Slovak RSO /
Roberto Duarte
*Symphony No. 6 Rudá "Dio d'amore", Symphonic Poem & Ballet Slovak RSO, Bratislava / Roberto Duarte
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51TL9pZjl1L.jpg) (https://clubedoaudio.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/01-8.223527.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51mGKTATYvL.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81Mlun7oaTL._SL1393_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51OXyerEfLL.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 09, 2020, 08:30:25 AM
My Villa-Lobos collection is up for review - own nearly three dozen discs (several boxes) - expect to add or replace some recordings, but thought that Heitor's own thread will generate a better reaction - first discs up are some from the Duarte Marco Polo (MP) series - just own the first two below and streamed the 3rd one of the Suites which I really enjoyed! Last two shown of some chamber works.
My first question concerns the Duarte recordings on MP (surprised Naxos has not boxed these up?) - which are favs and any 'real' competition? Dave :)
ADDENDUM: Looking at the Marco Polo Catalog on the Naxos Website (https://www.naxos.com/sharedfiles/PDF/Marco-Polo_Catalogue_2018.pdf), appears that Duarte made 5 recordings, so my main decision is whether I need 2 of the 3 others (already have a good Symphony set)?
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51TL9pZjl1L.jpg) (https://clubedoaudio.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/01-8.223527.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51mGKTATYvL.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81Mlun7oaTL._SL1393_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51OXyerEfLL.jpg)
Where do I even begin with this post?!?!? :) I think all of the Robert Duarte recordings on Marco Polo are absolutely essential to a V-L collection, especially the recordings with
The Discovery Of Brazil Suites and
Gênesis (plus
Erosão,
Amazonas and
Dawn in a Tropic Forest). I don't know those recordings on Helios (Hyperion) or on that Adda label. I do know
those works, however, but in different recordings. If you've decided on culling your V-L collection perhaps you can provide us with a full list of what's in your current collection?
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 09, 2020, 09:22:56 AM
Where do I even begin with this post?!?!? :) I think all of the Robert Duarte recordings on Marco Polo are absolutely essential to a V-L collection, especially the recordings with The Discovery Of Brazil Suites and Gênesis (plus Erosão, Amazonas and Dawn in a Tropic Forest). I don't know those recordings on Helios (Hyperion) or on that Adda label. I do know those works, however, but in different recordings. If you've decided on culling your V-L collection perhaps you can provide us with a full list of what's in your current collection?
Hi
John - thanks for replying - I plan to post on most of what I own, so don't need to make a long list of everything; also, I will likely not get rid of much at all, but might replace several recordings (depending of what 'new' is available) and/or add a few, e.g. as stated before I listened to two of the Duarte Marco Polo discs on Spotify this morning which are not in my collection - PrestoMusic has these as MP3 DLs (320 kbps) which includes the digital booklets.
Now, selectively listening to the recordings below - have two versions of the
Floresta do Amazonas and prefer the newer one w/ Neschling, but want to do some A-B comparisons to see if I can cull out the older Fleming recording. The
Choros & Bachianas Brasileiras BIS box w/ Neschling is a favorite and will remain on the shelf - :laugh: For those reading these posts and just getting into this composer, reviews of all these recordings are attached! Dave
(https://bis.se/shop/17115/art15/h0518/4460518-origpic-c5ec01.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61eSmH94VvL._SS500_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51GUK7sVs0L.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 09, 2020, 10:01:47 AM
Hi John - thanks for replying - I plan to post on most of what I own, so don't need to make a long list of everything; also, I will likely not get rid of much at all, but might replace several recordings (depending of what 'new' is available) and/or add a few, e.g. as stated before I listened to two of the Duarte Marco Polo discs on Spotify this morning which are not in my collection - PrestoMusic has these as MP3 DLs (320 Mbps) which includes the digital booklets.
Now, selectively listening to the recordings below - have two versions of the Floresta do Amazonas and prefer the newer one w/ Neschling, but want to do some A-B comparisons to see if I can cull out the older Fleming recording. The Choros & Bachianas Brasileiras BIS box w/ Neschling is a favorite and will remain on the shelf - :laugh: For those reading these posts and just getting into this composer, reviews of all these recordings are attached! Dave
(https://bis.se/shop/17115/art15/h0518/4460518-origpic-c5ec01.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61eSmH94VvL._SS500_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51GUK7sVs0L.jpg)
Alright, thanks, Dave. I would definitely get rid of that
Floresta do Amazonas recording with Fleming as it's inferior to the Neschling in more ways than one. The reason I have a rather harsh opinion of the Fleming/Heller recording is because of the use of an electronic instrument to emulate the sound of an instrument they couldn't get their hands on. I forget what the booklet notes detailed about this at the moment but I recall the Neschling recording eliminated this problem and got their hands on this instrument, which, now that I think about it, might be a violinophone, but don't quote me on that. ;) Anyway, if you own the older CPO set of symphonies, I would consider supplementing them with Karabtchevsky on Naxos. I prefer his recordings now and consider that St. Clair/Stuttgart set 'too clean' and much too polished for this music which needs some roughness and raw edges. But Karabtchevsky also recorded some works released on some of these symphony recordings that you just can't find like
Mandu-Çarará for example. Just throwing this out there as I remember talking about my preference for the CPO set many years ago. Opinions are like time itself --- they change. I hope this helps in some small way.
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 09, 2020, 08:30:25 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51TL9pZjl1L.jpg)
This needs a re-release. It is seriously OOP. The asked prices are ridiculous.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 09, 2020, 10:14:53 AM
Alright, thanks, Dave. I would definitely get rid of that Floresta do Amazonas recording with Fleming as it's inferior to the Neschling in more ways than one. The reason I have a rather harsh opinion of the Fleming/Heller recording is because of the use of an electronic instrument to emulate the sound of an instrument they couldn't get their hands on. I forget what the booklet notes detailed about this at the moment but I recall the Neschling recording eliminated this problem and got their hands on this instrument, which, now that I think about it, might be a violinophone, but don't quote me on that. ;) Anyway, if you own the older CPO set of symphonies, I would consider supplementing them with Karabtchevsky on Naxos. I prefer his recordings now and consider that St. Clair/Stuttgart set 'too clean' and much too polished for this music which needs some roughness and raw edges. But Karabtchevsky also recorded some works released on some of these symphony recordings that you just can't find like Mandu-Çarará for example. Just throwing this out there as I remember talking about my preference for the CPO set many years ago. Opinions are like time itself --- they change. I hope this helps in some small way.
Thanks again
John for your comments - I do have the St. Clair CPO box (7-discs - you may have helped me decide back in 2013 which is the year of my Amazon purchase, just $44 then), and today was looking at the newer releases w/ Karabtchevsky and the São Paulo Orchestra - on PrestoClassical (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/search?search_query=villa%20lobos%20symphonies), I'm seeing 4 releases so far at $8.75 per physical CD there - assume Naxos is planning for a complete set? So, the question is 'buy now' or 'wait for a box'?
Finally, I did decide to dump the Fleming recording of
Floresta do Amazonas - really enjoy the much later BIS CD (SACD also) - Dave :)
Quote from: 71 dB on June 09, 2020, 12:28:06 PM
This needs a re-release. It is seriously OOP. The asked prices are ridiculous.
Agree
Poju! Today, I went ahead and bought the 2 below missing in my collection as MP3 DLs (320 kbps) - burned to CD-R which are printable, so now have 4 of the Duarte recordings on disc; also came w/ digital booklets - not ideal but with my 'old ears' and a modest home stereo system, sounds fine to me. :) Dave
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51LX9KzdVLL._SY355_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61-Tj-j%2BNQL._SY355_.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 09, 2020, 12:59:32 PM
Thanks again John for your comments - I do have the St. Clair CPO box (7-discs - you may have helped me decide back in 2013 which is the year of my Amazon purchase, just $44 then), and today was looking at the newer releases w/ Karabtchevsky and the São Paulo Orchestra - on PrestoClassical (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/search?search_query=villa%20lobos%20symphonies), I'm seeing 4 releases so far at $8.75 per physical CD there - assume Naxos is planning for a complete set? So, the question is 'buy now' or 'wait for a box'?
Finally, I did decide to dump the Fleming recording of Floresta do Amazonas - really enjoy the much later BIS CD (SACD also) - Dave :)
You're welcome, Dave. 8) I'm not sure what to tell you about the possibility of a V-L symphony set from Naxos. That's a guessing game. I would say, however, that if you feel content with St. Clair, then my recommendation for the Karabtchevsky shouldn't be seen as an urgent request. But, if you enjoy these symphonies, I would seriously consider getting those Naxos recordings. There are actually six recordings in this Karabtchevsky series on Naxos.
P.S. Good to see you dump the Fleming/Heller recording. ;) I would do the same, but I'm one of those listeners who likes to hold onto things, especially when its concerning one of my favorite composers.
Villa-Lobos & Guitar - at the moment, I own the top 3 recordings shown below - duplicate solo works w/ Anders Miolin (in the BIS box of Choros et al) and Fabio Zanon; plus, the Guitar Concerto w/ Eduardo Fernandez in an old Double Decca. I'm happy w/ these recordings, but was looking on Amazon today and found some interesting 'new' offerings, i.e. the lower two; one w/ the Guitar Concerto, plus some other interesting works, including harmonica! Also, a small Naxos box of guitar w/ an Italian instrumentalist - any comments? Thanks - Dave :)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-jBgRPGB/0/6b35be82/O/VillaLobosMiolin.png) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/4190JE38XAL.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81tkfNOPJwL._SS500_.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81nPt4x%2BNoL._SL1384_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71xFXUYUChL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61S4m5vsfoL._SY355_.jpg)
Hi Dave,
I only have one CD with his complete music for solo guitar by Norbert Kraft on Naxos but it is absolutely gorgeous.
Quote from: Papy Oli on June 09, 2020, 02:08:56 PM
Hi Dave,
I only have one CD with his complete music for solo guitar by Norbert Kraft on Naxos but it is absolutely gorgeous.
Thanks
Papy - Kraft has a LOT of recordings on Spotify, including the Villa-Lobos - I'll take a listen - :) Dave
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 09, 2020, 02:04:05 PM
Villa-Lobos & Guitar - at the moment, I own the top 3 recordings shown below - duplicate solo works w/ Anders Miolin (in the BIS box of Choros et al) and Fabio Zanon; plus, the Guitar Concerto w/ Eduardo Fernandez in an old Double Decca. I'm happy w/ these recordings, but was looking on Amazon today and found some interesting 'new' offerings, i.e. the lower two; one w/ the Guitar Concerto, plus some other interesting works, including harmonica! Also, a small Naxos box of guitar w/ an Italian instrumentalist - any comments? Thanks - Dave :)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-jBgRPGB/0/6b35be82/O/VillaLobosMiolin.png) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/4190JE38XAL.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81tkfNOPJwL._SS500_.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81nPt4x%2BNoL._SL1384_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71xFXUYUChL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61S4m5vsfoL._SY355_.jpg)
Hello again, Dave. ;) It appears we're the only V-L fans here. ;) I would NOT hesitate to add that Naxos box set
Complete Guitar Manuscripts to your collection. Look carefully at the contents of that set as it's not just solo guitar music as it contains a number of works for guitar and orchestra/voice and chamber ensemble settings. The set also contains the not oft-recorded orchestral work
O papagaio do moleque, which is outstanding. Check out this set's contents here:
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8188059--villa-lobos-complete-guitar-manuscripts (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8188059--villa-lobos-complete-guitar-manuscripts)
That recording with the
Guitar Concerto,
Harmonia Concerto, etc. is also top-notch. Definitely worth your consideration. Another V-L recording I recommend with great enthusiasm is this one on Naxos with the Mobius Ensemble:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk0NjM0Ni4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1NTd9)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 09, 2020, 01:28:16 PM
Agree Poju! Today, I went ahead and bought the 2 below missing in my collection as MP3 DLs (320 kbps) - burned to CD-R which are printable, so now have 4 of the Duarte recordings on disc; also came w/ digital booklets - not ideal but with my 'old ears' and a modest home stereo system, sounds fine to me. :) Dave
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51LX9KzdVLL._SY355_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61-Tj-j%2BNQL._SY355_.jpg)
Cool. Yes, 320 kbps mp3's sound practically identical to the CD.
Villa-Lobos & Piano Works - my current collection below which includes solo, chamber, and orchestral pieces w/ piano - reviews attached of nearly all of these recordings; an occasional thread is some of these reviews is that Heitor's piano writing may be a weaker part of his vast oeuvre - not sure that I really agree, so will be curious on the comments of others. Also there are other pianists who have recorded the solo works - other favorites or is Rubinsky the best option for one wanting a 'substantial' collection of keyboard works? Dave :)
.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71QgRqyftiL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk3NzY4OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1NDl9) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61brJewWDVL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61rnA5LUgAL._SX355_.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 10, 2020, 11:40:13 AM
Villa-Lobos & Piano Works - my current collection below which includes solo, chamber, and orchestral pieces w/ piano - reviews attached of nearly all of these recordings; an occasional thread is some of these reviews is that Heitor's piano writing may be a weaker part of his vast oeuvre - not sure that I really agree, so will be curious on the comments of others. Also there are other pianists who have recorded the solo works - other favorites or is Rubinsky the best option for one wanting a 'substantial' collection of keyboard works? Dave :)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71QgRqyftiL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk3NzY4OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1NDl9) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61brJewWDVL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61rnA5LUgAL._SX355_.jpg)
Hello again, Dave. We've got to stop meeting like this. ;) I wouldn't get rid of any of those recordings. That set of solo piano music is excellent and while not every work is a grand slam, there is still much there to be savored and enjoyed. Plus, we're unlikely to get another complete traversal of the solo piano music anytime soon. For the
Violin Sonatas, that's the only decent recording of those works. It's not a perfect recording (too reverberant), but it's better than the competition. That is a fantastic recording of the
Piano Trios and one of those essential V-L recordings, IMHO. The
Piano Concertos set is a mixed bag, but I can tell you this: there hasn't been another cycle to challenge it, so it's valuable in that regard and the performances are quite good. The PCs aren't up to V-L's usual high standards and they can turn into note-spinning, but I think it wouldn't be a good idea to get rid of them, because there is some good music there.
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 10, 2020, 01:36:12 PM
Hello again, Dave. We've got to stop meeting like this. ;) I wouldn't get rid of any of those recordings. That set of solo piano music is excellent and while not every work is a grand slam, there is still much there to be savored and enjoyed. Plus, we're unlikely to get another complete traversal of the solo piano music anytime soon. For the Violin Sonatas, that's the only decent recording of those works. It's not a perfect recording (too reverberant), but it's better than the competition. That is a fantastic recording of the Piano Trios and one of those essential V-L recordings, IMHO. The Piano Concertos set is a mixed bag, but I can tell you this: there hasn't been another cycle to challenge it, so it's valuable in that regard and the performances are quite good. The PCs aren't up to V-L's usual high standards and they can turn into note-spinning, but I think it wouldn't be a good idea to get rid of them, because there is some good music there.
Hi
John - looks like we're meeting again in isolation! :laugh: All of those previous recordings are 'keepers' for me - I would be curious to hear another set of the
Piano Concertos but not holding my breath, plus Ortiz does a good job. So far, I've culled just one recording (Fleming in the Forest) and added two Marco Polos w/ Duarte (on MP3 DLs). Another post or two will finish my perusal of my HVL collection w/ little change, as I expected. Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 10, 2020, 06:37:04 PM
Hi John - looks like we're meeting again in isolation! :laugh: All of those previous recordings are 'keepers' for me - I would be curious to hear another set of the Piano Concertos but not holding my breath, plus Ortiz does a good job. So far, I've culled just one recording (Fleming in the Forest) and added two Marco Polos w/ Duarte (on MP3 DLs). Another post or two will finish my perusal of my HVL collection w/ little change, as I expected. Dave :)
Yes, indeed, Dave. Exactly my sentiments on the
Piano Concertos. They're not going to get recorded again for quite some time I'm afraid or, at least, it appears this way. Looking forward to your next post, so I can be the only member who responds to it. ;D
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 10, 2020, 11:40:13 AM
Villa-Lobos & Piano Works - my current collection below which includes solo, chamber, and orchestral pieces w/ piano - reviews attached of nearly all of these recordings; an occasional thread is some of these reviews is that Heitor's piano writing may be a weaker part of his vast oeuvre - not sure that I really agree, so will be curious on the comments of others. Also there are other pianists who have recorded the solo works - other favorites or is Rubinsky the best option for one wanting a 'substantial' collection of keyboard works? Dave :)
.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71QgRqyftiL._SL1200_.jpg) (https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk3NzY4OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MDE5ODI1NDl9) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61brJewWDVL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61rnA5LUgAL._SX355_.jpg)
Marc-Andre Hamelin has recorded an album of Villa- Lobos (Hyperion)
Villa-Lobos & String Quartets (SQs) - one of my early introductions to this composer and still a favorite 'listen' are the SQs; indeed for myself and considering the 'larger' 20th century string quartet sets, I feel Villa-Lobos is up there w/ Bartok and Shostakovich (or at least close) - but if I had to pull out a box of quartets from the last century, Heitor's compositions would usually be my first choice, just me I guess?
Now in the last week of listening to my nearly three dozen V-L CDs, I've culled out only I, added 2 of the Duarte series as MP3 DLs, and have actually added two more, an upcoming post. BUT - for the SQs, I own the first box shown below (6 discs) w/ the Cuarteto Latinoamericano and have just listened to 2/3 of the works last night and this morning - I see no need to replace them; if so, what is available at least on Amazon USA (did not look elsewhere so my comments may be limited). There is another box w/ the same group (2nd pic) - recordings are said in one of the reviews attached to have been remastered, not sure, and a DVD is now included, but the offering is not cheap. The Danubius Quartet on Marco Polo have recorded all SQs, but these seem to be OOP on Amazon but some available at PrestoMusic; MP3s of most, I believe - see comparative reviews - do not believe this group tops the one the I own. Finally, Quatuor Bessler-Reis was supposedly making a complete set, but I see just 4 CDs on Amazon USA, i.e. 2/3 of the works - have not checked to see if other newer recordings have emerged, anyone know?
SO, even in a modest Villa-Lobos collection, the SQs should be considered a MUST (at least in my mind - and keep in mind that the composer was originally a cello player although he learn to play other instruments, including the guitar). Dave :)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41Q6C2MT94L.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71qGq%2BO8%2B-L._SL1400_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/515WoXxTrNL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91VNRNjzI2L._SL1420_.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 11, 2020, 08:27:32 AM
Quatuor Bessler-Reis was supposedly making a complete set, but I see just 4 CDs on Amazon USA, i.e. 2/3 of the works - have not checked to see if other newer recordings have emerged, anyone know?
I have the complete five-disc set.
(https://www.dibpic.com/uploads/posts/2020-02/1580631522_33.jpg)
Quote from: Florestan on June 11, 2020, 08:44:44 AM
I have the complete five-disc set.
(https://www.dibpic.com/uploads/posts/2020-02/1580631522_33.jpg)
I have two discs of that set: the one with 1, 2 and 3 and the one with 15, 16 and 17. I had a Brazilian working pal who donated these discs to me when returning from Finland to Brazil and didn't bother to take them with him.
Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 11, 2020, 08:27:32 AM
Villa-Lobos & String Quartets (SQs) - one of my early introductions to this composer and still a favorite 'listen' are the SQs; indeed for myself and considering the 'larger' 20th century string quartet sets, I feel Villa-Lobos is up there w/ Bartok and Shostakovich (or at least close) - but if I had to pull out a box of quartets from the last century, Heitor's compositions would usually be my first choice, just me I guess?
Now in the last week of listening to my nearly three dozen V-L CDs, I've culled out only I, added 2 of the Duarte series as MP3 DLs, and have actually added two more, an upcoming post. BUT - for the SQs, I own the first box shown below (6 discs) w/ the Cuarteto Latinoamericano and have just listened to 2/3 of the works last night and this morning - I see no need to replace them; if so, what is available at least on Amazon USA (did not look elsewhere so my comments may be limited). There is another box w/ the same group (2nd pic) - recordings are said in one of the reviews attached to have been remastered, not sure, and a DVD is now included, but the offering is not cheap. The Danubius Quartet on Marco Polo have recorded all SQs, but these seem to be OOP on Amazon but some available at PrestoMusic; MP3s of most, I believe - see comparative reviews - do not believe this group tops the one the I own. Finally, Quatuor Bessler-Reis was supposedly making a complete set, but I see just 4 CDs on Amazon USA, i.e. 2/3 of the works - have not checked to see if other newer recordings have emerged, anyone know?
SO, even in a modest Villa-Lobos collection, the SQs should be considered a MUST (at least in my mind - and keep in mind that the composer was originally a cello player although he learn to play other instruments, including the guitar). Dave :)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41Q6C2MT94L.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71qGq%2BO8%2B-L._SL1400_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/515WoXxTrNL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91VNRNjzI2L._SL1420_.jpg)
The SQs ARE an essential part of V-L's oeuvre without a doubt in my mind. I haven't heard any other performances other than the Cuarteto Latinoamericano cycle. I have been rather satisfied with their performances, so I never felt that it was necessary for me to have any others in my collection.
Quote from: Florestan on June 11, 2020, 08:44:44 AM
I have the complete five-disc set.
(https://www.dibpic.com/uploads/posts/2020-02/1580631522_33.jpg)
That's a rather curious set. I don't think I've even seen it before.
Thanks Guys! Just added the review PDF to my post (had forgotten) - :)
All three of those SQ groups received good recommendations, so I assume that you're happy w/ the recordings? Dave
Quote from: Mirror Image on June 11, 2020, 09:30:00 AM
The SQs ARE an essential part of V-L's oeuvre without a doubt in my mind. I haven't heard any other performances other than the Cuarteto Latinoamericano cycle. I have been rather satisfied with their performances, so I never felt that it was necessary for me to have any others in my collection.
+1
John and after reading the reviews, considered one of the top ones. Dave
I hope MusicTurner doesn't mind me taking our conversation to the composer thread:
QuoteQuote from: MusicTurner on July 08, 2020, 12:15:03 PM
Have mostly been listening to these the last couple of days ...
My Villa-Lobos collection isn't quite comprehensive enough & I've decided to buy a some more CD stuff soon, have begun to appreciate him further.
The Jenny Abel/Szidon recording of the Villa Lobos 3 Violin Sonatas is very good musically, but has an unusually spacious sound. Very much worth hearing.
So is the Choros no.11, a big piano concertante piece lasting 60+ minutes.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 08, 2020, 12:54:35 PM
Yes, the Abel/Szidon recording is way too reverberant. I wish a label like BIS would record these works, they're really fantastic, especially the 3rd VS. Have you bought any of the SQs or solo piano music? How about the Chôros (the BIS set of these works is an essential acquisition for any V-L fan, IMHO)? I would also see if you can't track down those older Marco Polo recordings with Roberto Duarte conducting --- all of these recordings are top-notch. The symphonies are hit/miss, but I really enjoyed the 4th, 6th and 10th but YMMV. There's one thing I can say about my time here on GMG and that is I never pass up the opportunity to talk about V-L's music.
Not much activity in this thread unfortunately since my last post, but this seems to be under some people's radars at the moment:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODgyOTMwMC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MDE2NTQzNDZ9)
Promo video for the box set:
https://www.youtube.com/v/OSDfzDLE9Vs
I used to prefer the performances from St. Clair of the symphonies on the CPO label until I really started listening to Karabtchevsky's cycle. The problem with the St. Clair performances now that I've had the opportunity to do an evaluation is he's too controlled in the music. The orchestra used in the St. Clair series, the Stuttgart RSO, are a fine orchestra, but they play this music a bit too precise and they don't really give into much of the wildness that this music requires. Karabtchevsky, of course, is Brazilian and has the São Paulo Symphony Orchestra at his disposal, which know this music inside out. Karabtchevsky also plays the music with the wild abandon that it needs in order for it to make the kind of impact it needs. I've said this before, but I don't feel Villa-Lobos' strongest works are his symphonies, but there is enough good music within these works to make them worthwhile. Symphony No. 10, 'Amerindia' is sprawling work, but it's so enthralling. I also felt Symphonies Nos. 4 & 6 were quite memorable. Anyway, if any of you want to get to know these works (and what fan of V-L's music wouldn't really), then you should definitely pick up the Karabtchevsky cycle on Naxos, especially now that it's been boxed up!
I have listened to the complete Choros and I liked them all in various degrees. Best of all I liked the one named Pica-Pau (IIRC). I listened to some piano music from the Rubinsky box (both books of A prole do bebe, IIRC) and liked them. I just love his song Melodia sentimental and the Valsa da dor for piano solo. I like melodic music and my attention span starts to dwindle after 30 minutes. Where should I go next with Villa-Lobos, a composer I've been meaning to explore for years but somehow never got around it?
Quote from: Florestan on November 19, 2020, 09:51:20 AM
I have listened to the complete Choros and I liked them all in various degrees. Best of all I liked the one named Pica-Pau (IIRC). I listened to some piano music from the Rubinsky box (both books of A prole do bebe, IIRC) and liked them. I just love his song Melodia sentimental and the Valsa da dor for piano solo. I like melodic music and my attention span starts to dwindle after 30 minutes. Where should I go next with Villa-Lobos, a composer I've been meaning to explore for years but somehow never got around it?
The string quartets would be a great next start. Get the Cuarteto Latinoamericano cycle on Dorian. The
Bachianas Brasileiras series should be on the list, especially after you've listened to the
Chôros. My favorite Villa-Lobos song would be
Canção de Cristal:
https://www.youtube.com/v/kjke8RzoQg4
Quote from: Florestan on November 19, 2020, 09:51:20 AM
I have listened to the complete Choros and I liked them all in various degrees. Best of all I liked the one named Pica-Pau (IIRC). I listened to some piano music from the Rubinsky box (both books of A prole do bebe, IIRC) and liked them. I just love his song Melodia sentimental and the Valsa da dor for piano solo. I like melodic music and my attention span starts to dwindle after 30 minutes. Where should I go next with Villa-Lobos, a composer I've been meaning to explore for years but somehow never got around it?
I'd recommend the
Bachianas Brasileiras, the guitar music, and the rest of the piano music. Also the recording of chamber music by mobius.
https://www.youtube.com/v/Wv3eKacp3wk
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 19, 2020, 10:05:08 AM
The string quartets would be a great next start. Get the Cuarteto Latinoamericano cycle on Dorian.
Thank you very much, John. I think I'll start with what I have, though:
(https://www.dibpic.com/uploads/posts/2020-02/1580631522_33.jpg)
QuoteMy favorite Villa-Lobos song would be Canção de Cristal:
https://www.youtube.com/v/kjke8RzoQg4
A splendid song indeed. Loved it.
Oh, and I forgot to mention that I enjoyed this disc immensely:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81nPt4x%2BNoL._AC_SL1384_.jpg)
the Guitar Concerto being my favorite.
Quote from: Florestan on November 19, 2020, 10:15:03 AM
Thank you very much, John. I think I'll start with what I have, though:
(https://www.dibpic.com/uploads/posts/2020-02/1580631522_33.jpg)
A splendid song indeed. Loved it.
Oh, and I forgot to mention that I enjoyed this disc immensely:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81nPt4x%2BNoL._AC_SL1384_.jpg)
the Guitar Concerto being my favorite.
You're welcome, Andrei. Yes, that newer V-L disc is great! I should revisit it actually now that you mentioned it. Another suggestion would be to check out the
Piano Trios, which I became familiar with about two or three years ago thanks to this marvelous recording:
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/35/43/0843436054335_600.jpg)
Let me say that V-L's oeuvre is quite vast, so one of the best things you can do is to just dive in. :)
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 19, 2020, 10:39:10 AM
Another suggestion would be to check out the Piano Trios, which I became familiar with about two or three years ago thanks to this marvelous recording:
(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/35/43/0843436054335_600.jpg)
My favorite chamber music combo! Will investigate.
Quote
Let me say that V-L's oeuvre is quite vast, so one of the best things you could is just dive right in. :)
I guess you're right.
How about the piano concertos, another genre I'm a sucker for? I remember one of the Choros being a piano concerto in all but name, and quite Rachmaninovian too.
Quote from: Florestan on November 19, 2020, 10:47:09 AM
My favorite chamber music combo! Will investigate.
I guess you're right.
How about the piano concertos, another genre I'm a sucker for? I remember one of the Choros being a piano concerto in all but name, and quite Rachmaninovian too.
Villa-Lobos' piano concerti aren't too good, IMHO. They could've been so much more, but, IMHO, he had already wrote some of his best work for piano/orchestra in the
Chôros and
Bachianas Brasileiras series.
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 19, 2020, 10:55:43 AM
Villa-Lobos' piano concerti aren't too good, IMHO.
Why? What's wrong with them?
Quote from: Mirror Image on November 19, 2020, 09:38:32 AM
Not much activity in this thread unfortunately since my last post, but this seems to be under some people's radars at the moment:
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODgyOTMwMC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MDE2NTQzNDZ9) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/517taMdWZfL.jpg)
Promo video for the box set:
I used to prefer the performances from St. Clair of the symphonies on the CPO label until I really started listening to Karabtchevsky's cycle. The problem with the St. Clair performances now that I've had the opportunity to do an evaluation is he's too controlled in the music. The orchestra used in the St. Clair series, the Stuttgart RSO, are a fine orchestra, but they play this music a bit too precise and they don't really give into much of the wildness that this music requires. Karabtchevsky, of course, is Brazilian and has the São Paulo Symphony Orchestra at his disposal, which know this music inside out. Karabtchevsky also plays the music with the wild abandon that it needs in order for it to make the kind of impact it needs. I've said this before, but I don't feel Villa-Lobos' strongest works are his symphonies, but there is enough good music within these works to make them worthwhile. Symphony No. 10, 'Amerindia' is sprawling work, but it's so enthralling. I also felt Symphonies Nos. 4 & 6 were quite memorable. Anyway, if any of you want to get to know these works (and what fan of V-L's music wouldn't really), then you should definitely pick up the Karabtchevsky cycle on Naxos, especially now that it's been boxed up!
Hi
John - thanks for the comments on the newer box set of the V-L Symphonies w/ Karabtchevsky - I own the St. Clair box above and have enjoyed; reviews of some of these releases (attached are 3 each of the Symphonies 3/4 & Symphonies 8,9,11) include some comments of the two different recordings - both received comparable comparisons w/ some preference of one over the other. I also enjoy the São Paulo SO in the Chorus/Brachianas and prefer listening to those works (or V-L other output) than the Symphonies; BUT, this Naxos set is available on Spotify, so will do some comparative listening. Dave :)
Quote from: Florestan on November 19, 2020, 10:57:16 AM
Why? What's wrong with them?
I just didn't find them as interesting or colorful as the afore mentioned works.
Quote from: SonicMan46 on November 19, 2020, 11:08:56 AM
Hi John - thanks for the comments on the newer box set of the V-L Symphonies w/ Karabtchevsky - I own the St. Clair box above and have enjoyed; reviews of some of these releases (attached are 3 each of the Symphonies 3/4 & Symphonies 8,9,11) include some comments of the two different recordings - both received comparable comparisons w/ some preference of one over the other. I also enjoy the São Paulo SO in the Chorus/Brachianas and prefer listening to those works (or V-L other output) than the Symphonies; BUT, this Naxos set is available on Spotify, so will do some comparative listening. Dave :)
Very cool, Dave. 8) Let me tell you ever since I've started contributing to this thread, you've really been my Villa-Lobos compadre. It's nice to have one those around here. :) We're in agreement about the symphonies for sure, although as I mentioned, I don't feel my time has been wasted exploring his symphonies --- some of them are just better than others, but that's the way it is with any composer's oeuvre or so it seems.
So far, I've greatly enjoyed 3 and 4 (especially the slow movements) and 10. Many more to explore!
:)
Quote from: vandermolen on November 19, 2020, 09:53:02 PM
So far, I've greatly enjoyed 3 and 4 (especially the slow movements) and 10. Many more to explore!
:)
8)
I mean, that might be one of the more fascinating aspects of V-L's career, is how the works that have titles related to past forms seem to be among the more uninspired. As much as I enjoy the symphonies, I do agree that the works that are more "him" lie in cycles such as the Choros and Bachianas Brasileiras. And I also find the numbered piano concertos not among my favourites.
Quote from: Maestro267 on November 21, 2020, 06:01:44 AM
I mean, that might be one of the more fascinating aspects of V-L's career, is how the works that have titles related to past forms seem to be among the more uninspired. As much as I enjoy the symphonies, I do agree that the works that are more "him" lie in cycles such as the Choros and Bachianas Brasileiras. And I also find the numbered piano concertos not among my favourites.
I find
Symphony No. 10, 'Ameríndia' to be one of his greatest achievements from an orchestral standpoint. In my mind, this work is up there with any of the larger works in the
Chôros or
Bachianas Brasileiras series. It took me awhile to wrap my mind around this symphony since it's an hour long, but the Karabtchevsky performance is what solidified the work for me. The other performances I've heard like Ben-Dor and St. Clair are rather tame in comparison. As I mentioned, Villa-Lobos needs to be performed with abandon and Karabtchevsky brings it in this department. I also think his SQs are some of his finest works and I don't find these works short of inspiration at all. In fact, I haven't heard a lot of V-L that I thought lacked inspiration, but we're agreed on the piano concerti, although I would like to hear if those performances could be improved upon, but I won't hold my breath there since it's been quite some time since that Decca cycle with Ortiz has been issued. This sounds like a job for Naxos. I would also love to have another recording of the
Violin Sonatas as the recording on Brilliant Classics is very good, but the recording is way too reverberant. It'd be great if Hyperion would record these works, but it doesn't look like it'll happen.
(https://usercontent.one/wp/www.historiadelasinfonia.es/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Villa-Lobos-s-11.jpg)
Relistening to the glorious 1st Symphony from this splendid set, which has better sonics than the Naxos, above all in symphonies 3 and 4. Extraordinary work, decidedly late-Romantic and with folk-music influences. If you could enjoy a mix, say, between Langgaard and Brazilian rhythms and airs, you could like this piece. Really loved it!!
Now on my V-L collection for some selective listening - have about 40 discs (w/ four 6-8 CD boxes) shown below from my database - so anything new to consider (or replace)? I've been listening over the last few days to the Choros-Bachianas, String Quartets, and some chamber music - will start in on the Symphonies & Solo Piano.
Looking on Amazon USA, I don't see much need to add or subtract - I'm happy w/ the St. Clair symphony cycle although Karabtchevsky's newer cycle is well regarded - performance and sonics better? Another violin sonata set but happy w/ the one I already own; also have been eyeing the 3-disc guitar box, but have 2 recordings of stated 'Complete Guitar Recordings', true? May need to check Spotify for a listen. Finally, a 'chamber music' CD of works on Naxos - I seemed to have at least half of these on other recordings? Dave :)
(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/b238ca87-5dbe-4599-a97b-54280239e700.5bc3d6f09a9a8593a34b4088e079ead6.jpeg?odnHeight=612&odnWidth=612&odnBg=FFFFFF) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71oTwFj5YWS._SL1200_.jpg) (https://cdn.naxos.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/8.503289.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/819oKmWKlrL._SL1200_.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-S2Z7w6T/0/ca31a374/O/Villa-Lobos_Owned2.png)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 17, 2022, 08:15:18 AM
Now on my V-L collection for some selective listening - have about 40 discs (w/ four 6-8 CD boxes) shown below from my database - so anything new to consider (or replace)? I've been listening over the last few days to the Choros-Bachianas, String Quartets, and some chamber music - will start in on the Symphonies & Solo Piano.
Looking on Amazon USA, I don't see much need to add or subtract - I'm happy w/ the St. Clair symphony cycle although Karabtchevsky's newer cycle is well regarded - performance and sonics better? Another violin sonata set but happy w/ the one I already own; also have been eyeing the 3-disc guitar box, but have 2 recordings of stated 'Complete Guitar Recordings', true? May need to check Spotify for a listen. Finally, a 'chamber music' CD of works on Naxos - I seemed to have at least half of these on other recordings? Dave :)
(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/b238ca87-5dbe-4599-a97b-54280239e700.5bc3d6f09a9a8593a34b4088e079ead6.jpeg?odnHeight=612&odnWidth=612&odnBg=FFFFFF) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71oTwFj5YWS._SL1200_.jpg) (https://cdn.naxos.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/8.503289.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/819oKmWKlrL._SL1200_.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-S2Z7w6T/0/ca31a374/O/Villa-Lobos_Owned2.png)
The St. Clair cycle strikes me as rhythmically stiff in general, Dave. My opinion a few years ago was in favor of this CPO cycle, but since then I have done side-by-side comparisons with St. Clair and Karabtchevsky and, for me, Karabtchevsky is the clear winner in terms of excitement and just a better general ebb-and-flow, especially rhythmically. If you can ditch the St. Clair and buy the Karabtchevsky (for a decent price), then that would be fantastic. I think you would be more satisfied with it. Plus, Karabtchevsky has the São Paulo Symphony Orchestra, which were used in the Neschling/Minczuk cycle of the
Chôros and
Bachianas Brasileiras on BIS. They have this music in their blood and there's no denying that the Germans, while they do an admirable job, don't really
get the music. The recording of the
Violin Sonatas is pretty good, but the balances are off. The piano is more upfront and the violin is more recessed and, while I like the performances, they don't better the recording on Brilliant Classics with Jenny Abel and Roberto Szidon, which does suffer from reverberant fidelity, but there's a certain spirit in these performances that the Naxos recording can't quite match. The Andrea Bissoli box set is fantastic! A must-buy, especially as it contains some works that are difficult to find and some transcriptions/arrangements that can't be found anywhere else. An important set, IMHO. The
Chamber Music disc on Naxos with Mobius is excellent as well. You can't go wrong with that recording. I hope this helps you in some way.
What does the Andrea Bissoli set include that would not be included in a complete guitar solo works album (like the two Dave has) plus the guitar concerto? You know a lot more about VL's repertoire than I do.
To me that collection looks pretty thorough in terms of covering the works I know and value. My suggestion to Dave instead would be to look through the other recent Naxos Brazil releases - the brand new Guerra-Peixe CD seems pretty essential, for example (my comments here (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,31.msg1457633.html#msg1457633)).
Quote from: Brian on July 18, 2022, 05:18:00 AM
What does the Andrea Bissoli set include that would not be included in a complete guitar solo works album (like the two Dave has) plus the guitar concerto? You know a lot more about VL's repertoire than I do.
To me that collection looks pretty thorough in terms of covering the works I know and value. My suggestion to Dave instead would be to look through the other recent Naxos Brazil releases - the brand new Guerra-Peixe CD seems pretty essential, for example (my comments here (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,31.msg1457633.html#msg1457633)).
Well, for starters, it has
O papagaio do moleque on it, which has only seen one prior recording with Alfred Heller conducting:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91mKdRZE6JL._SS500_.jpg)
This recording is OOP and the fidelity isn't the greatest (FYI,
The Emperor Jones has been recorded by Jan Wagner on Bridge Records to much more successful results --- this was V-L's last ballet).
For a complete listing of all the works included in the Bissoli set, I'll refer you to Presto:
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8188059--villa-lobos-complete-guitar-manuscripts (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8188059--villa-lobos-complete-guitar-manuscripts)
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 17, 2022, 07:25:03 PM
The St. Clair cycle strikes me as rhythmically stiff in general, Dave. My opinion a few years ago was in favor of this CPO cycle, but since then I have done side-by-side comparisons with St. Clair and Karabtchevsky and, for me, Karabtchevsky is the clear winner in terms of excitement and just a better general ebb-and-flow, especially rhythmically. If you can ditch the St. Clair and buy the Karabtchevsky (for a decent price), then that would be fantastic. I think you would be more satisfied with it. Plus, Karabtchevsky has the São Paulo Symphony Orchestra, which were used in the Neschling/Minczuk cycle of the Chôros and Bachianas Brasileiras on BIS. They have this music in their blood and there's no denying that the Germans, while they do an admirable job, don't really get the music....................
Quote from: Brian on July 18, 2022, 05:18:00 AM
What does the Andrea Bissoli set include that would not be included in a complete guitar solo works album (like the two Dave has) plus the guitar concerto? You know a lot more about VL's repertoire than I do.
To me that collection looks pretty thorough in terms of covering the works I know and value. My suggestion to Dave instead would be to look through the other recent Naxos Brazil releases - the brand new Guerra-Peixe CD seems pretty essential, for example (my comments here (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,31.msg1457633.html#msg1457633)).
Thanks
Guys for the comments. I know that
John prefers the Karabtchevsky recordings w/ the Brazilian orchestra, so I visited Spotify and listen to about 4-5 Symphonies and then to a couple of discs from my St. Clair box - must say that the more recent Naxos sound was better to my ears and the performances seemed more integrated (maybe the redo of the manuscripts?) - I went ahead and ordered the Karabtchevsky box from Amazon USA for $30 USA (shipment 'across the pond' was completely discounted) - will likely cull out the other.
Thanks
Brian for your comments on the guitar recordings - believe that I'll just stick w/ my two recordings (although the same works are played, i.e.
Suite Populaire, Five Preludes, & Twelve Etudes) - not sure I need the other works but if available will take a listen on Spotify and if the price drops, may change my mind? 8) Dave
P.S. in my 'symphony comparison' I also looked at a bunch of reviews which are attached mainly for those debating the two boxes and who like to read others' comments.
Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 17, 2022, 08:15:18 AM
Now on my V-L collection for some selective listening - have about 40 discs (w/ four 6-8 CD boxes) shown below from my database - so anything new to consider (or replace)? I've been listening over the last few days to the Choros-Bachianas, String Quartets, and some chamber music - will start in on the Symphonies & Solo Piano.
Looking on Amazon USA, I don't see much need to add or subtract - I'm happy w/ the St. Clair symphony cycle although Karabtchevsky's newer cycle is well regarded - performance and sonics better? Another violin sonata set but happy w/ the one I already own; also have been eyeing the 3-disc guitar box, but have 2 recordings of stated 'Complete Guitar Recordings', true? May need to check Spotify for a listen. Finally, a 'chamber music' CD of works on Naxos - I seemed to have at least half of these on other recordings? Dave :)
(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/b238ca87-5dbe-4599-a97b-54280239e700.5bc3d6f09a9a8593a34b4088e079ead6.jpeg?odnHeight=612&odnWidth=612&odnBg=FFFFFF) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71oTwFj5YWS._SL1200_.jpg) (https://cdn.naxos.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/8.503289.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/819oKmWKlrL._SL1200_.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-S2Z7w6T/0/ca31a374/O/Villa-Lobos_Owned2.png)
Dave, how do you like the piano concerti?
Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 18, 2022, 10:20:19 AM
Thanks Guys for the comments. I know that John prefers the Karabtchevsky recordings w/ the Brazilian orchestra, so I visited Spotify and listen to about 4-5 Symphonies and then to a couple of discs from my St. Clair box - must say that the more recent Naxos sound was better to my ears and the performances seemed more integrated (maybe the redo of the manuscripts?) - I went ahead and ordered the Karabtchevsky box from Amazon USA for $30 USA (shipment 'across the pond' was completely discounted) - will likely cull out the other.
Thanks Brian for your comments on the guitar recordings - believe that I'll just stick w/ my two recordings (although the same works are played, i.e. Suite Populaire, Five Preludes, & Twelve Etudes) - not sure I need the other works but if available will take a listen on Spotify and if the price drops, may change my mind? 8) Dave
P.S. in my 'symphony comparison' I also looked at a bunch of reviews which are attached mainly for those debating the two boxes and who like to read others' comments.
Good deal with the Karabtchevsky. It's a fine cycle and will be a welcome addition to your V-L collection, IMHO. Hope you enjoy it.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 18, 2022, 12:20:30 PM
Dave, how do you like the piano concerti?
You didn't ask me, Karl, but I find the PCs to be mediocre in general. They've got some good ideas here and there, but they don't really hold up that well. Granted, it's been years since I've heard them and there's only one recording of the complete cycle (with Cristina Ortiz and Gómez-Martínez on Decca).
P.S. Dave, on your spreadsheet of the V-L recordings you have listed in your collection, you may want to make the correction to Gómez-Martínez. You have him listed as Gómez-Martínex. ;)
Interesting, John. For the present, I'll content myself with listening through the symphonies.
Quote from: Mirror Image on July 18, 2022, 01:06:24 PM
Good deal with the Karabtchevsky. It's a fine cycle and will be a welcome addition to your V-L collection, IMHO. Hope you enjoy it.
You didn't ask me, Karl, but I find the PCs to be mediocre in general. They've got some good ideas here and there, but they don't really hold up that well. Granted, it's been years since I've heard them and there's only one recording of the complete cycle (with Cristina Ortiz and Gómez-Martínez on Decca).
P.S. Dave, on your spreadsheet of the V-L recordings you have listed in your collection, you may want to make the correction to Gómez-Martínez. You have him listed as Gómez-Martínex. ;)
Hi
John - believe that I'll enjoy the Karabtchevsky from my Spotify listening this morning. Thanks for noticing the spreadsheet typos - I have plenty of those - kind of boring to make mutliple entries so I go fast and don't always double check (and me a medical writer during my career! :laugh:)
Karl - not sure that I'd go as far as
John on the
Piano Concertos comments - V-L started these later in his life (58 y/o for the first one) and probably not that motivated to compose at his best level, just a thought; I'm listening now to PCs 3-5 and am enjoying (would I rather be listening to something else by him - probably) - the writing can be rambling w/ at times weird dynamic shifts (I've attached some reviews - one from Grammophone w/ a cautioned recommendation and one from Amazon, someone I usually like but leaving only a 2*/5* rating); now the Brazilian pianist, Christina Ortiz is wonderful as usual and gives her best to put this music across - my best recommendation is try to stream several of the works and then decide - it's an inexpensive double-Decca. Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 18, 2022, 02:09:26 PM
Hi John - believe that I'll enjoy the Karabtchevsky from my Spotify listening this morning. Thanks for noticing the spreadsheet typos - I have plenty of those - kind of boring to make mutliple entries so I go fast and don't always double check (and me a medical writer during my career! :laugh: )
Karl - not sure that I'd go as far as John on the Piano Concertos comments - V-L started these later in his life (58 y/o for the first one) and probably not that motivated to compose at his best level, just a thought; I'm listening now to PCs 3-5 and am enjoying (would I rather be listening to something else by him - probably) - the writing can be rambling w/ at times weird dynamic shifts (I've attached some reviews - one from Grammophone w/ a cautioned recommendation and one from Amazon, someone I usually like but leaving only a 2*/5* rating); now the Brazilian pianist, Christina Ortiz is wonderful as usual and gives her best to put this music across - my best recommendation is try to stream several of the works and then decide - it's an inexpensive double-Decca. Dave :)
Thanks,
Dave.
Cristina Ortiz is mighty fine in the "piano concerto
Choros" (or is it a
Bachianas? ... I admit to some bewilderment in this composer's expansive
œuvre.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 18, 2022, 01:21:05 PM
Interesting, John. For the present, I'll content myself with listening through the symphonies.
As Dave pointed out, don't let me deter you from giving these works a listen. You may very well enjoy them more than I did, but as I mentioned, I'm probably being unfair as it's been years since I've heard these works.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 18, 2022, 02:42:05 PM
Thanks, Dave. Cristina Ortiz is mighty fine in the "piano concerto Choros" (or is it a Bachianas? ... I admit to some bewilderment in this composer's expansive œuvre.
There's one in each cycle, and Ortiz has recorded both. Bachianas Brasileiras No. 3 and Choros No. 11.
Quote from: Maestro267 on July 19, 2022, 12:52:01 AM
There's one in each cycle, and Ortiz has recorded both. Bachianas Brasileiras No. 3 and Choros No. 11.
Thanks for the light!
I've been becoming addicted to Villa-Lobos - started with the symphonies 8 though 11, and now trying out the Choros (wow there is so much). I'm also impressed with the guitar and harmonica concertos. Just so much treasure it can be overwhelming. Decided to hold the collecting until I grasp what I have.
Quote from: Leo K. on November 28, 2022, 01:37:05 PMI'm also impressed with the guitar and harmonica concertos.
I have only this recording and I must say that I enjoyed the guitar concerto (much) more than the harmonica one. My favorite
Villa-Lobos so far, though, is the
Pica Pau choro and the
choro which is a piano concerto in all but name (can't remember their numbers otomh).
(https://cdn.naxos.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/8.574018.jpg)
Quote from: Florestan on November 29, 2022, 01:17:46 PMI have only this recording and I must say that I enjoyed the guitar concerto (much) more than the harmonica one. My favorite Villa-Lobos so far, though, is the Pica Pau choro and the choro which is a piano concerto in all but name (can't remember their numbers otomh).
(https://cdn.naxos.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/8.574018.jpg)
That's the same recording I have. I like the harmonica concerto as I play harmonica too (though not like this). You must mean the Choro 11? I was getting overwhelmed by all the Choros so I went back to the symphonies, as that's a form I can grasp when there is soooo much music - it's too much at times!
Are the string quartets worth exploring?
Quote from: Maestro267 on July 10, 2023, 06:05:10 AMAre the string quartets worth exploring?
I was impressed by Quartet #17. I can't say about the rest, though.
Quote from: Maestro267 on July 10, 2023, 06:05:10 AMAre the string quartets worth exploring?
I'm probably not the best person to ask this question, as I am ambivalent about
Villa-Lobos in general, but I found very little to admire in the SQs when I started exploring them a couple of years ago (TBH, I think I didn't even complete the exploration). I found that surprising, as usually I get the impression that most composers are at (or near) their best in the SQ medium (that quintessential vehicle of absolute, pure music). IIRC, the early SQs were rather crude, and had kitschy moments of Brazilian melancholy ("
saudade") that sounded downright cheap to me. I'm probably in a minority here (to each his own), but a good friend who is virtually an omnivore as far as 20th century music is concerned, also said he had no time to spare on these SQs.
I should revisit
SQ No. 7 in light of
Mapman's comment above...
Quote from: Maestro267 on July 10, 2023, 06:05:10 AMAre the string quartets worth exploring?
Well, these are Brazilian-flavored 20th century String Quartets often ranked below those of Bartok and Shostakovitch - for me I prefer to listen to Villa-Lobos despite owning 2 sets each of the other two - the recording to own is shown below (possibly obtainable as a 6-disc box bargain when I made my purchase) - reviews attached, if interested. Dave :)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41Q6C2MT94L.jpg)
Quote from: ritter on July 10, 2023, 06:23:41 AMI'm probably not the best person to ask this question, as I am ambivalent about Villa-Lobos in general, but I found very little to admire in the SQs when I started exploring them a couple of years ago (TBH, I think I didn't even complete the exploration). I found that surprising, as usually I get the impression that most composers are at (or near) their best in the SQ medium (that quintessential vehicle of absolute, pure music). IIRC, the early SQs were rather crude, and had kitschy moments of Brazilian melancholy ("saudade") that sounded downright cheap to me. I'm probably in a minority here (to each his own), but a good friend who is virtually an omnivore as far as 20th century music is concerned, also said he had no time to spare on these SQs.
I should revisit SQ No. 7 in light of Mapman's comment above...
I like the 3rd (War) and 4th (Victory) symphonies and Chorus No.10 but that's about it.
If I remember correctly, Villa-Lobos didn't think highly of his first quartets. However, I don't consider that an impediment to enjoy those and all of the quartets as it's music with very catchy rhythms and generous melodic content.
Other works I recommend by him other than the Bachianas Brasileiras, the Chôros and the symphonies are the piano trios, the cello concertos, Floresta do Amazonas, Quinteto instrumental, Sexteto mistico, the String Trio (the CPO recording is the one to consider), a Marco Polo CD featuring some orchestral works/tone poems whose content I don't remember right now but it's certainly a must-have for any Villa-Lobos fan IMO, among other works.
If John were here, he would surely agree with me. 😉
Quote from: ritter on July 10, 2023, 06:23:41 AMI found that surprising, as usually I get the impression that most composers are at (or near) their best in the SQ medium (that quintessential vehicle of absolute, pure music).
Are you just a major of SQ fan? It might just be a matter of preferences. I have always wanted to hear composers' symphonies.
Quote from: lordlance on July 10, 2023, 11:19:06 AMAre you just a major of SQ fan? ...
Not really (or, better put, not necessarily). I like many genres —opera, orchestral, solo piano—, but do think there's something special in SQs.
Regards from Spain,
lordlance!
@ritter I'm a sucker for the
saudade. Your less than laudatory review of the early quartets makes me want to hear them ;D
In seriousness though, I've known about this composer for many many years, but never got into him. He wrote so much music. Maybe someone who knows the composer well could tell me what are 3-5 works that are a cut above the rest?
Quote from: vers la flamme on July 10, 2023, 03:07:34 PM@ritter I'm a sucker for the saudade. Your less than laudatory review of the early quartets makes me want to hear them ;D
In seriousness though, I've known about this composer for many many years, but never got into him. He wrote so much music. Maybe someone who knows the composer well could tell me what are 3-5 works that are a cut above the rest?
I'm no V-L expert and I'm only familiar with less than half of his massive output, but I can confidently recommend his
Bachianas Brasileiras nos. 1, 3, and 4,
Chôros no. 10 (I don't know most of the others, admittedly), Symphonies nos. 2 and 6, Cello Concerto no. 2,
Uirapuru, and
Sexteto místico. Oops, that's more than 3-5 works... ;)
Quote from: Maestro267 on July 10, 2023, 06:05:10 AMAre the string quartets worth exploring?
Yup they are what got me into V-L. Some of the finest string quartets of the 20th century imho.
Quote from: DavidW on July 12, 2023, 06:34:58 PMYup they are what got me into V-L. Some of the finest string quartets of the 20th century imho.
Before I get immolated I should quite a bit below Shostakovich, Bartok, Janacek, Debussy, Ravel, Carter and Martinu.
Not sure how many official recordings of Villa-Lobos's magical and unique Quarteto simbólico for flute, alto saxophone, harp, celesta and female voices exist, but I just stumbled upon this recording and it's so cool. I was taken to a fantasy realm by the pristine sonorities of all the performers involved. Singularly beautiful.
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkzNTk0My4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1ODkzNjEyMTV9)
What an imagination for chamber ensembles Villa-Lobos has! It really feels like the 20-odd year gap that splits his symphony cycle almost down the middle produced some of his most inventive music.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on April 08, 2024, 07:58:40 PMNot sure how many official recordings of Villa-Lobos's magical and unique Quarteto simbólico for flute, alto saxophone, harp, celesta and female voices exist, but I just stumbled upon this recording and it's so cool. I was taken to a fantasy realm by the pristine sonorities of all the performers involved. Singularly beautiful.
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkzNTk0My4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1ODkzNjEyMTV9)
I must check that out. As it happens I was listening to his
Sexteto místico for flute, oboe, saxophone, celesta, guitar, harp yesterday for the first time, which is also enchanting and a gorgeous ensemble of instruments. The recording was this -
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAxODQzMS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0NzEwOTM5OTh9)
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on April 08, 2024, 07:58:40 PMNot sure how many official recordings of Villa-Lobos's magical and unique Quarteto simbólico for flute, alto saxophone, harp, celesta and female voices exist, but I just stumbled upon this recording and it's so cool. I was taken to a fantasy realm by the pristine sonorities of all the performers involved. Singularly beautiful.
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkzNTk0My4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1ODkzNjEyMTV9)
Thanks for the tip,
Cesar!
Quote from: Iota on April 09, 2024, 03:34:46 AMI must check that out. As it happens I was listening to his Sexteto místico for flute, oboe, saxophone, celesta, guitar, harp yesterday for the first time, which is also enchanting and a gorgeous ensemble of instruments. The recording was this -
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODAxODQzMS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwid2VicCI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0Ijoid2VicCJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0NzEwOTM5OTh9)
A great work indeed, I'm very fond of that piece too. His
Quinteto instrumental for flute, harp and string trio is another peach.
Quote from: Karl Henning on April 09, 2024, 12:11:59 PMThanks for the tip, Cesar!
My pleasure, Karl. I hope you have enjoyed it as well.
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on April 09, 2024, 01:16:44 PMMy pleasure, Karl. I hope you have enjoyed it as well.
Very nice!