Like we did with Chopin, I thought we could do with Schubert (and perhaps all composers, to keep things simple)
First off: I'd like to find out about transfers of Edwin Fischer's and Schnabel's Schubert recordings. I know the performances are excellent, so I need not ask about that.
For Fischer: which release is preferable? Pearl, Testament, APR, other?
For Schnabel: Music and Arts? I saw this set today, but its a big investment IMO. How is it? Also, how's Pearl's? I've read that the EMI Impromptus are done well, but that would mean duplication if I got the M&A set later.
Decisions, Decisions. :-\
I have also had an eye on Schnabel's Schubert, but have not yet made the plunge. If and when you do, let us know how it is.
I have a fair number of recordings by Lupu, Brendel, Pollini, and Richter and am quite satisfied for the time being -- but Schnabel may be up next.
(OT: P.S. Did you listen to the Leon Fleischer(sp?) disc you picked up a while back?)
Quote from: aquariuswb on April 07, 2007, 07:46:11 AM
I have also had an eye on Schnabel's Schubert, but have not yet made the plunge. If and when you do, let us know how it is.
I have a fair number of recordings by Lupu, Brendel, Pollini, and Richter and am quite satisfied for the time being -- but Schnabel may be up next.
(OT: P.S. Did you listen to the Leon Fleischer(sp?) disc you picked up a while back?)
I haven't. I'll let you know, though. :)
I got Lupu's Impromptus today. Can't wait to pop that one in. :)
Quote from: George on April 07, 2007, 01:19:13 PM
I haven't. I'll let you know, though. :)
I got Lupu's Impromptus today. Can't wait to pop that one in. :)
Lupu's Schubert is excellent! I have those impromptus and enjoy them very much.
Quote from: Bunny on April 07, 2007, 06:45:42 PM
Lupu's Schubert is excellent! I have those impromptus and enjoy them very much.
Yes, I am listening to it now. :)
Its a gorgeously inward, refined take. I am very glad I got it. How's his Decca Schubert sonata set?
I also can't wait for the Edwin Fischer CD of Impromptus (Testament) that I ordered from a local store to arrive. They said 4-6 weeks ::).
Then, I'll move onto the complete Schnabel set on M&A. Holden recommended that one awhile ago but I never seem to have $55 all at once. I'd rather buy 6-7 cd's instead.
Quote from: George on April 07, 2007, 07:54:29 PM
How's his Decca Schubert sonata set?
I have most of this set (save for the D.959) in prior releases. Can't say as I've ever been let down.
Quote from: George on April 07, 2007, 07:54:29 PM
Yes, I am listening to it now. :)
Its a gorgeously inward, refined take. I am very glad I got it. How's his Decca Schubert sonata set?
I have his D. 960, D. 894, and D. 664 -- all are superb. I may very well get the whole set at some point.
Thanks for the feedback, guys.
I still love my Richter Schubert above all others, but may want another take at some point.
I have Klien's sonatas and a nice live 2CD set of Brendel too.
I do have the Schnabel set on M & A, but hasn't really done much for me yet. To be honest, (and I know you like your Richter!) I don't really look beyond Richter in Schubert, it's the pinnacle for me, no other artist even begins to approach the Plateau that Richter resides. I also have the Lupu/Decca set and it's very good, excellent in places, but always seem to reach first for Richter...
Have a smattering of other performances: Pollini twofer on DG, Afanassiev's D.960 on ECM (would heartily recommend this to other Richterphiles, cracking), some Sokolov and Leonskaja performances. I think at present, Schnabel works much more for me in the Beethoven sonatas which I love, but will certainly give the M & A set some more listening time as I know it's heartily recommended by some, particularly over at RMCR.
:)
Which Richter Schubert discs would you highly recommend?
Quote from: rubio on April 08, 2007, 02:38:11 AM
Which Richter Schubert discs would you highly recommend?
All the Regis CD's (3 in total), The Brilliant box with Beethoven and Schubert, D.840 on Philips (available as a twofer with Winterreise), Fantasy D.940/variations D.813/Grand Duo (with B. Britten) on Decca/BBC and the D.960 again on BBC Legends - can't make up my mind if that one, the Regis or the Brilliant D.960 is my favourite, so go for all three!
There's other bits out there - some Schubert on the DG In Memoriam and some on the Richter in Recital '58 CD on Philips with the famous Mussorgsky 'Pictures'. Anyone else have some other sugestions?
Barring the Warhorses, this is a truly remarkable set of Schubert sonatas.
Michael Endres, plays with such passion and directness he sometimes makes me forget about Kempff, Uchida, Bendel, Perahia, Lewis & co.
A set not to be missed IMHO ;D Bargain price too, £1 or so per disc, surely you should fill your boots ;)
Quote from: SimonGodders on April 08, 2007, 04:05:08 AM
All the Regis CD's (3 in total), The Brilliant box with Beethoven and Schubert, D.840 on Philips (available as a twofer with Winterreise), Fantasy D.940/variations D.813/Grand Duo (with B. Britten) on Decca/BBC and the D.960 again on BBC Legends - can't make up my mind if that one, the Regis or the Brilliant D.960 is my favourite, so go for all three!
There's other bits out there - some Schubert on the DG In Memoriam and some on the Richter in Recital '58 CD on Philips with the famous Mussorgsky 'Pictures'. Anyone else have some other sugestions?
Well, you almost said it all. :)
If you can find the D 850 on Praga, grab it! It's Richter's only recording of that work and it's incredible!
Also, there's some Schubert on the Philips "Authorized Edition" this is also rare, but worth seeking out for its excellent sonics.
There's the all Schubert BBC disc with some great live performances of three Sonatas and two Moments Musicaux.
For D 845, Urania has his mono 1956 performance coupled with a great Schumann Fantasiestucke. The CD is marked D 850, but its D 845 inside.
There are some others, (check Trovar.com) but most are only on LP or way OOP.
If you are wondering where to start, I'd say the Brilliant Box as its cheap so if you don't like his Schubert, you still have his Beethoven and Liszt performances. The Regis discs that Simon mentioned are the cheapest and most available ways to check out his Schubert. If you like one, you'll want to have them all. Enjoy and let us know your thoughts. :)
Quote from: SimonGodders on April 08, 2007, 12:24:21 AM
I do have the Schnabel set on M & A, but hasn't really done much for me yet.
You may have just saved me some money, thanks! :) I think I will instead sample his Impromptus on the EMI Historical label first.
Quote
To be honest, (and I know you like your Richter!) I don't really look beyond Richter in Schubert, it's the pinnacle for me, no other artist even begins to approach the Plateau that Richter resides.
Indeed!
Quote
I also have the Lupu/Decca set and it's very good, excellent in places, but always seem to reach first for Richter...
Yes, I heard his Impromptus last night and I heard some places that sounded very much like Richter, but Lupu fails to bring full intensity along with his great poetic beauty. Its a shame, but certainly a superb alternate take.
Quote
Have a smattering of other performances: Pollini twofer on DG, Afanassiev's D.960 on ECM (would heartily recommend this to other Richterphiles, cracking), some Sokolov and Leonskaja performances. I think at present, Schnabel works much more for me in the Beethoven sonatas which I love, but will certainly give the M & A set some more listening time as I know it's heartily recommended by some, particularly over at RMCR.
:)
Yes, I have read that over there. Some members here also love it and my favorite guidebook puts only Edwin Fischer ahead of him.
Quote from: SimonGodders on April 08, 2007, 04:05:08 AM
All the Regis CD's (3 in total), The Brilliant box with Beethoven and Schubert, D.840 on Philips (available as a twofer with Winterreise), Fantasy D.940/variations D.813/Grand Duo (with B. Britten) on Decca/BBC and the D.960 again on BBC Legends - can't make up my mind if that one, the Regis or the Brilliant D.960 is my favourite, so go for all three!
Has anybody had the chance to compare Richter's D960 with the highly critically acclaimed D960 by Kovacevich (Hyperion - very much OOP) or Schnabel (Pearl)?
This is refreshingly different in its sometimes scathing approach, but I tend to favor the Takacs recording of this work above others.
Bruno Walter's recording of Schubert's 5,8th symphonies is great.
I start my getting into Richter's Schubert project by ordering the Brilliant Classics box set + the 3 Regis CD's as they're cheap! :)
Quote from: rubio on April 08, 2007, 01:24:50 PM
I start my getting into Richter's Schubert project by ordering the Brilliant Classics box set + the 3 Regis CD's as they're cheap! :)
Boy are you in for a treat! :D
I spent much of the day listening to Boehm and the BPO play the Schubert symphonies. :)
Quote from: rubio on April 08, 2007, 10:11:49 AM
Has anybody had the chance to compare Richter's D960 with the highly critically acclaimed D960 by Kovacevich (Hyperion - very much OOP) or Schnabel (Pearl)?
Yes, I have all two of those plus the EMI Kovacevich. There is very little difference between that and the Hyperion which is what stopped me from buying it.
The first thing to realise is that Richter's recording stands alone comparatively because of the way the first movement is played so we are then down to a comparison of Schnabel and Kovacevich. I have both because of the mono/stereo difference but if I was asked to keep only one it would be the Schnabel. While the SK is exceptional, Schnabel goes deeper into the music and the telling movement is the adagio sostenuto where Schnabel really draws out the tragic elements in this music. His timing and pacing is flawless as it is throughout the whole of the sonata whereas Kovacevich is variable in places.
If asked, once again, to choose between Schnabel and Richter, once again Schnabel would win out. I have all the Schnabel Schubert recordings including a superb 'Trout' with the Pro Arte Qtt. There is something magical about Schnabel's Schubert which I find hard to describe and I see him as the true champion of Schubert's piano works which is fitting when you consider that he was the first major pianist to really promote them. There is nothing flashy or spectacular about his playing but it's like Rubinstein or Moravec in the Chopin Nocturnes. From hearing the first few bars you know you are listening to something special but you can't work out why. Maybe it's the simplicity of approach - I don't know - but I'm suggesting George that you go to your local library to see whether they have the Schnabel Schubert.
Quote from: Holden on April 08, 2007, 03:14:46 PM
If asked, once again, to choose between Schnabel and Richter, once again Schnabel would win out. I have all the Schnabel Schubert recordings including a superb 'Trout' with the Pro Arte Qtt. There is something magical about Schnabel's Schubert which I find hard to describe and I see him as the true champion of Schubert's piano works which is fitting when you consider that he was the first major pianist to really promote them. There is nothing flashy or spectacular about his playing but it's like Rubinstein or Moravec in the Chopin Nocturnes. From hearing the first few bars you know you are listening to something special but you can't work out why. Maybe it's the simplicity of approach - I don't know - but I'm suggesting George that you go to your local library to see whether they have the Schnabel Schubert.
Thanks for this. That's a great idea. :)
Quote from: Holden on April 08, 2007, 03:14:46 PM
If asked, once again, to choose between Schnabel and Richter, once again Schnabel would win out. I have all the Schnabel Schubert recordings including a superb 'Trout' with the Pro Arte Qtt. There is something magical about Schnabel's Schubert which I find hard to describe and I see him as the true champion of Schubert's piano works which is fitting when you consider that he was the first major pianist to really promote them. There is nothing flashy or spectacular about his playing but it's like Rubinstein or Moravec in the Chopin Nocturnes. From hearing the first few bars you know you are listening to something special but you can't work out why. Maybe it's the simplicity of approach - I don't know - but I'm suggesting George that you go to your local library to see whether they have the Schnabel Schubert.
I need Schnabel's D960 + some of his other Schubert :). Do you have the Pearl transfer?
Quote from: George on April 08, 2007, 05:50:11 AM
If you can find the D 850 on Praga, grab it! It's Richter's only recording of that work and it's incredible!
It seems like also a studio recording exists of Richter's D850 on Melodiya. A bit pricey though.
http://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Sonata-D-845-D-850-Franz/dp/B000001HCR/ref=sr_1_1/103-6086389-5715826?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1176114533&sr=1-1
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000001HCR.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: rubio on April 09, 2007, 02:37:15 AM
It seems like also a studio recording exists of Richter's D850 on Melodiya. A bit pricey though.
http://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Sonata-D-845-D-850-Franz/dp/B000001HCR/ref=sr_1_1/103-6086389-5715826?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1176114533&sr=1-1
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000001HCR.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_.jpg)
That's right! He recorded it twice. I've heard the Praga/Music and Arts performance from the same year is better though.
Russian DVD.com may have the Melodiya cheaper. I got a Melodiya Richter disc from them late last year for regular price.
Quote from: aquariuswb on April 07, 2007, 07:46:11 AM
I have also had an eye on Schnabel's Schubert, but have not yet made the plunge. If and when you do, let us know how it is.
Got this today:
(http://www.angelrecords.com/Images/Jpeg_144/868332.jpg)
After listening through the first set of Impromptus, I must say I find it at least a bit too fast and especially too unrefined for my taste. I can say that the last two of D 935 were exceptions to this, epecially the superb B flat Impromptu, which was flawless. Otherwise, the qualities of Schnabel's playing that worked so well in his Beethoven just didn't speak to me in his Schubert. I only wish that more of that profoundity that he found in the LvB slow movements were present here. He had many of what would later be Richter's qualities, minus the slower, solemn tempi. Its obviously a question of liking his interpretation, for he certainly could have played these more expansively if he had so chosen. If you like your Schubert with less sniffing of the flowers and more muscle and rawness, then this is the set for you. Unfortunately, the EMI remaster is poor as usual. In fact this will be my last EMI purchase of a Historical recording, assuming there exists an alternative. Its just not worth the money saved IMO. There's way too much strange noise for a 1950 performance IMO. They cut much of the upper frequency out as well. I had read that this was the best transfer of these performances. If it is, its a damn shame. However, I doubt that MOT on M&A didn't do a much better job, but I wasn't prepered to shell out the $60 for the set. Having heard these performances, I won't be getting any more of Schnabel's Schubert.
Quote from: George on April 09, 2007, 05:06:12 PM
Got this today:
(http://www.angelrecords.com/Images/Jpeg_144/868332.jpg)
After listening through the first set of Impromptus, I must say I find it at least a bit too fast and especially too unrefined for my taste. The qualities of Schnabel's playing that worked so well in his Beethoven just didn't speak to me in his Schubert. I only wish that more of that profoundity that he found in the LvB slow movements were present here. He had many of what would later be Richter's qualities, minus the slower, solemn tempi. Its obviously a question of liking his interpretation, for he certainly could have played these more expansively if he had so chosen. If you like your Schubert with less sniffing of the flowers and more muscle and rawness, then this is the set for you. Unfortunately, the EMI remaster is poor as usual. In fact this will be my last EMI purchase of a Historical recording, assuming there exists an alternative. Its just not worth the money saved IMO. There's way too much strange noise for a 1950 performance IMO. They cut much of the upper frequency out as well. I had read that this was the best transfer of these performances. If it is, its a damn shame. However, I doubt that MOT on M&A didn't do a much better job, but I wasn't prepered to shell out the $60 for the set. Having heard these performances, I won't be getting any more of Schnabel's Schubert.
This just may be your best written review to date George. Well done.
Quote from: Bill on April 09, 2007, 05:56:45 PM
This just may be your best written review to date George. Well done.
I appreciate that, Bill. Thanks! BTW, are you going to get it? Retail is $6.99.... :-\
Quote from: George on April 09, 2007, 05:59:38 PM
I appreciate that, Bill. Thanks! BTW, are you going to get it? Retail is $6.99.... :-\
After your scathing review....not a chance.
Quote from: Bill on April 09, 2007, 06:08:57 PM
After your scathing review....not a chance.
I actually just edited it to say that I enjoyed two of the Impromptus, especially the B flat. But yeah, overall, I don't recommend it for those who don't like their Schubert as described above. I very much look forward to getting Edwin Fischer's recordings of these works. I've ordered the Pearl and the Testament from two separate stores.
Quote from: SimonGodders on April 08, 2007, 04:05:08 AM
and the D.960 again on BBC Legends - can't make up my mind if that one, the Regis or the Brilliant D.960 is my favourite, so go for all three!
Been listening to all three today and think I'ld rank them in this order:
1. Regis
2. BBC Legends
3. Brilliant
They're all excellent, but feel the Regis has a greater sense of depth and pathos than the other two, so would recommend that as a first choice
:)
Quote from: George on April 09, 2007, 05:06:12 PM
Got this today:
(http://www.angelrecords.com/Images/Jpeg_144/868332.jpg)
After listening through the first set of Impromptus, I must say I find it at least a bit too fast and especially too unrefined for my taste. I can say that the last two of D 935 were exceptions to this, epecially the superb B flat Impromptu, which was flawless. Otherwise, the qualities of Schnabel's playing that worked so well in his Beethoven just didn't speak to me in his Schubert. I only wish that more of that profoundity that he found in the LvB slow movements were present here. He had many of what would later be Richter's qualities, minus the slower, solemn tempi. Its obviously a question of liking his interpretation, for he certainly could have played these more expansively if he had so chosen. If you like your Schubert with less sniffing of the flowers and more muscle and rawness, then this is the set for you. Unfortunately, the EMI remaster is poor as usual. In fact this will be my last EMI purchase of a Historical recording, assuming there exists an alternative. Its just not worth the money saved IMO. There's way too much strange noise for a 1950 performance IMO. They cut much of the upper frequency out as well. I had read that this was the best transfer of these performances. If it is, its a damn shame. However, I doubt that MOT on M&A didn't do a much better job, but I wasn't prepered to shell out the $60 for the set. Having heard these performances, I won't be getting any more of Schnabel's Schubert.
I had this CD and was so pissed at the crap remastering, I got rid of it almost immediately. Really flat,dull and lifeless - and they own the original!
???
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000001G6G.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V45581218_SS500_.jpg)
During the Adagio, time seems suspended as the soul floats in the space, rising to Heavens. Absolutely magnificent performance! Highly recommended.
Acquired within the past two weeks:
Schubert Piano Trios:
Atlantis Ensemble/Winter and Winter
Eisenstadt Haydn Trio/Capriccio (SACD)
Storioni Trio Amsterdam/PentaTone (SACD)
Braley and Two Capucons/Virgin Classics
Great additions to the Rubinstein, Casals and Beaux Arts recordings I already have.
Quote from: SimonGodders on April 15, 2007, 10:39:20 AM
I had this CD and was so pissed at the crap remastering, I got rid of it almost immediately. Really flat,dull and lifeless - and they own the original!
???
Yeah, some say that they have improved in their transfers, but not nearly enough IMO. That CD was mastered only two years ago. No excuse for their poor work! >:(
Quote from: SimonGodders on April 15, 2007, 10:36:16 AM
Been listening to all three today and think I'ld rank them in this order:
1. Regis
2. BBC Legends
3. Brilliant
They're all excellent, but feel the Regis has a greater sense of depth and pathos than the other two, so would recommend that as a first choice
:)
Indeed.
I like his D 894 (Brilliant) better than all of his Schubert. Pure heaven! :D
Quote from: rubio on April 09, 2007, 02:37:15 AM
It seems like also a studio recording exists of Richter's D850 on Melodiya. A bit pricey though.
http://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Sonata-D-845-D-850-Franz/dp/B000001HCR/ref=sr_1_1/103-6086389-5715826?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1176114533&sr=1-1
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000001HCR.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_.jpg)
I got the complete set at the library......burned it.....
Quote from: Robert on April 15, 2007, 01:01:45 PM
I got the complete set at the library......burned it.....
Wow! :o
I thought my library was stocked...
Quote from: George on April 15, 2007, 01:02:55 PM
Wow! :o
I thought my library was stocked...
Not so, very spotty....I wish it were better stocked......I was lucky with the Richter, plus they have the complete Bernstein DG Mahler......but I only needed a couple there.....
Quote from: Florestan on April 15, 2007, 12:08:38 PM
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000001G6G.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V45581218_SS500_.jpg)
During the Adagio, time seems suspended as the soul floats in the space, rising to Heavens. Absolutely magnificent performance! Highly recommended.
Has anyone had the chance to compare this Melos Quartet/Rostropovich recording to the version I have - Casals, Stern+.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0000029LC.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_.jpg)
haha
George. You asked about this album.
(http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000001GZY.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_.jpg)
Schubert's Impromptu is so often played too melancholy, or with an exaggerated rubato.
Though I heard just one time, this was not so impressive.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000007RXO.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_V44987832_AA147_.jpg)
Schubert - Piano Trios, Arpegione Sonata, Notturna
Piano: Andras Schiff
Cello: Miklos Perenyi
Violin: Yuuko Shiokawa
This is one of my recommending for the fans of Schubert. :)
Quote from: Poetdante on April 16, 2007, 06:59:14 PM
George. I remember you asked about this album.
(http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000001GZY.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_.jpg)
Schubert's Impromptu is so often played too melancholy, or with an exaggerated rubato.
Though I heard just one time, this was not so impressive.
Thanks for that. So I guessing she plays them too melancholy and/or exaggerated rubato?
Now I must ask who you do like in these works?
Quote from: George on April 16, 2007, 07:04:50 PM
Thanks for that. So I guessing she plays them too melancholy and/or exaggerated rubato?
Now I must ask who you do like in these works?
Because I didn't hear this album a lot of times, it is hard to tell you this is too melancholy.
What I meant was just that it was not impressive at first listening.
Zimerman's playing was like his 'Chopin-Ballade' album. I think these pieces need a different interpretation.
Despite I have not heard some albums fully, but 'my favorite' has not appeared yet.
I want to hear Kempff's. :)
Anyway, the album cover is beautiful, isn't it??
Quote from: Poetdante on April 17, 2007, 04:36:46 AM
Because I didn't hear this album a lot of times, it is hard to tell you this is too melancholy.
What I meant was just that it was not impressive at first listening.
Gotcha. :)
Quote
Zimerman's playing was like his 'Chopin-Ballade' album. I think these pieces need a different interpretation.
Indeed, I did not like his Impromptus one bit.
Quote
Despite I have not heard some albums fully, but 'my favorite' has not appeared yet.
Me neither.
Quote
I want to hear Kempff's. :)
I kind of want to too, yet others have warned that he may not have the technical prowess to really pull these off, while still others say he's good, but not great. :-\
Quote
Anyway, the album cover is beautiful, isn't it??
;)
Quote from: Poetdante on April 16, 2007, 06:59:14 PM
Schubert's Impromptu is so often played too melancholy, or with an exaggerated rubato.
Quote from: Poetdante on April 17, 2007, 04:36:46 AM
I think these pieces need a different interpretation. Despite I have not heard some albums fully, but 'my favorite' has not appeared yet.
You might want to try this one then; nothing exaggerated, just pure Schubert:
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/new/SchuBrenIm.jpg)
Sarge
Quote from: SimonGodders on April 08, 2007, 12:24:21 AM
Have a smattering of other performances...Afanassiev's D.960 on ECM (would heartily recommend this to other Richterphiles, cracking)
Nice to see somone else who appreciates this performance:
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/new/SchAf.jpg)
One of my favorite Schubert piano discs is Lilya Zilberstein's D.850 coupled with an unusual and haunting version of the Liszt transcription of
Gretchen am Spinnrade. Like her expression on the cover, this is some
serious Schubert playing.
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/new/SchZil.jpg)
The song usually comes in around the three and half minute mark. Zilberstein takes twice as long, completely changing its character, making the music more Liszt than Schubert. The dissonance really registers at this speed and the climax goes on seemingly forever. I don't know if Richter recorded the song but I can imagine him playing it like this.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 18, 2007, 03:00:51 AM
One of my favorite Schubert piano discs is Lilya Zilberstein's D.850 coupled with an unusual and haunting version of the Liszt transcription of Gretchen am Spinnrade. Like her expression on the cover, this is some serious Schubert playing.
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/new/SchZil.jpg)
The song usually comes in around the three and half minute mark. Zilberstein takes twice as long, completely changing its character, making the music more Liszt than Schubert. The dissonance really registers at this speed and the climax goes on seemingly forever. I don't know if Richter recorded the song but I can imagine him playing it like this.
Sarge
Sounds good Sarge! :)
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 18, 2007, 02:29:26 AM
You might want to try this one then; nothing exaggerated, just pure Schubert:
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/new/SchuBrenIm.jpg)
Sarge
Thanks for your recommending. :) I should try to hear this soon~
I've posted this before, but one of my favorite Schubert recordings is Matthias Goerne's recital disc, Goethe Lieder, with pianist Andreas Haefliger. Goerne's mellifluous voice and sensitive work mesh beautifully with Haefliger's strong-but-not-overpowering accompaniment, and the sound quality puts you right in the hall with them.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0000041LC.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_.jpg)
--Bruce
Quote from: Poetdante on April 16, 2007, 06:59:14 PM
George. You asked about this album.
(http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000001GZY.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_.jpg)
Schubert's Impromptu is so often played too melancholy, or with an exaggerated rubato.
Though I heard just one time, this was not so impressive.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000007RXO.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_V44987832_AA147_.jpg)
Schubert - Piano Trios, Arpegione Sonata, Notturna
Piano: Andras Schiff
Cello: Miklos Perenyi
Violin: Yuuko Shiokawa
This is one of my recommending for the fans of Schubert. :)
Schiff for Schubert? I generally find him a little to polished and technical- conservative for my liking. Perhaps, this is an uncharacteristic rendition for him?
Quote from: Steve on April 19, 2007, 07:50:43 AM
Schiff for Schubert? I generally find him a little to polished and technical- conservative for my liking. Perhaps, this is an uncharacteristic rendition for him?
Maybe he's better in ensembles, for I love his trout Quintet with Hagen. But his solo Schubert on that Double Decca didn't impress me much. :-\
Quote from: George on April 19, 2007, 07:54:27 AM
Maybe he's better in ensembles, for I love his trout Quintet with Hagen. But his solo Schubert on that Double Decca didn't impress me much. :-\
That's the point!
Perenyi's Cello playing is truly worth listening.
I really often hear the Arpegione Sonata in this album rather than the famous Rostropovich/Britten Recording from Decca.
What are generally seen as the essential Schubert recordings? Looking at my collection, I seem not to have that many CDs compared to the Schubert I've listened to. I have a few questions:
Who does the better Die Schone Mullerin, Wunderlich or Fischer-Dieskau?
What is Beecham's Schubert like? I'm especially thinking about the 3rd, 5th and 6th symphonies.
What are some of Schubert's other essential works? (Not including the String Quartets, Quintet and Symphonies).
Quote from: Don Giovanni on May 25, 2007, 09:37:44 AM
What is Beecham's Schubert like? I'm especially thinking about the 3rd, 5th and 6th symphonies.
You talking about this one?
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/4194P7KR8WL._AA240_.jpg)
Very mediocre. The early stereo sound is horrendous. The playing is ragged, inattentive and completely lacking in any discipline. I guess the music has a nice flow to it but in this day and age where there are more good Schubert symphony recordings than weeds in my backyard I can't imagine why anyone would consider it. For twice the cost of that CD you can get the complete set with Muti and the vaunted VPO on Brilliant Classics.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 25, 2007, 10:01:56 AM
You talking about this one?
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/4194P7KR8WL._AA240_.jpg)
Very mediocre. The early stereo sound is horrendous. The playing is ragged, inattentive and completely lacking in any discipline. I guess the music has a nice flow to it but in this day and age where there are more good Schubert symphony recordings than weeds in my backyard I can't imagine why anyone would consider it. For twice the cost of that CD you can get the complete set with Muti and the vaunted VPO on Brilliant Classics.
Bollocks!
Quote from: rubio on April 16, 2007, 12:55:08 PM
Has anyone had the chance to compare this Melos Quartet/Rostropovich recording to the version I have - Casals, Stern+.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0000029LC.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_AA240_.jpg)
OK, but this is also worth considering:
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41GKJVJB6RL._SS500_.jpg)
OK, thank you both for your advice. I'll definitely not be considering that recording.
What is the best set of all Schubert symphonies?
Quote from: Don Giovanni on May 25, 2007, 12:34:11 PM
OK, thank you both for your advice. I'll definitely not be considering that recording.
What is the best set of all Schubert symphonies?
No best set, but Muti/Brilliant Classics, Wand/RCA, Kertesz/Decca, Sawallisch/Philips will do nicely. Enjoy !
Quote from: Don Giovanni on May 25, 2007, 12:34:11 PM
OK, thank you both for your advice. I'll definitely not be considering that recording.
What is the best set of all Schubert symphonies?
The closest I got to a consensus last year was Boehm/BPO.
I love the set and haven't needed to look elsewhere. :)
Also if you like period instrument performance I like Bruggen and Goodman. The Goodman set can be had as part of a 12CD set for a ridiculously low price.
Quote from: Don Giovanni on May 25, 2007, 12:34:11 PM
OK, thank you both for your advice. I'll definitely not be considering that recording.
What is the best set of all Schubert symphonies?
I have to give my vote to Nikolaus Harnoncourt.
(http://content.vcommerce.com/products/108/415108/main-205.jpg)
Quote from: Bunny on May 27, 2007, 07:52:38 AM
I have to give my vote to Nikolaus Harnoncourt.
(http://content.vcommerce.com/products/108/415108/main-205.jpg)
Is this little gem available Bunny?
This is a treasure disc of Schnabel's Schubert in fine transfers from Pearl. I don't know the D959 and D960 enough in order to rate this performances, but especially the D960 sounds splendid to me! :) I also most say that I liked the piece "Divertissment a la Hongroise, D818" a lot. Do you have suggestions for some other performances of this one?
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/31VAG3Y4A0L._AA130_.jpg)
Quote from: rubio on May 27, 2007, 08:50:40 AM
I also most say that I liked the piece "Divertissment a la Hongroise, D818" a lot. Do you have suggestions for some other performances of this one?
Oh yes, and a amazing one for that. :)
On period instruments with the occassional percussive effects!
Wait till you hear this - loads of character.
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/8300137.jpg)
or reissued: (http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/4318846.jpg)
Just in case you not in for HIP: it's also included in the Brilliant box with Justus Frantz and Christoph Eschenbach.
My first choice for non-HIP.
Q
Quote from: Que on May 27, 2007, 09:10:33 AM
Oh yes, and a amazing one for that. :)
On period instruments with the occassional percussive effects!
Wait till you hear this - loads of character.
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/8300137.jpg) or reissued: (http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/4318846.jpg)
Just in case you not in for HIP: it's also included in the Brilliant box with Justus Frantz and Christoph Eschenbach.
My first choice for non-HIP.
Q
I'm in for everything as long as it's good.;D I don't have too many prejudices, even if I can become imprinted to some degree on certain performances like everybody else. The Brilliant box is already on my list!
Quote from: Bogey on May 27, 2007, 08:21:00 AM
Is this little gem available Bunny?
In Europe it is not bad, for about 20-25 Euro, but in the States somehow it cost over $60 !
Check out Jeno Jando's complete Schubert sonatas on Naxos...they are excellent.
http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1177793/775222/
Quote from: Bogey on May 27, 2007, 08:21:00 AM
Is this little gem available Bunny?
the last time I looked it was. Here's a link to Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Symphonies-Franz/dp/B000000SK6/ref=sr_1_1/102-0186141-5587377?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1180293122&sr=1-1).
Quote from: Que on May 27, 2007, 09:10:33 AM
Oh yes, and a amazing one for that. :)
On period instruments with the occassional percussive effects!
Wait till you hear this - loads of character.
(http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/8300137.jpg) or reissued: (http://www.jpc.de/image/cover/front/0/4318846.jpg)
Just in case you not in for HIP: it's also included in the Brilliant box with Justus Frantz and Christoph Eschenbach.
My first choice for non-HIP.
Q
Agree!
And here some more great recordings of Schubert for 4 hands -- Radu Lupu and Daniel Barenboim: Grand Duo; and Lupu and Perahia doing Mozart and Schubert's Fantasia for piano, 4 hands in F minor, D. 940 (Op. 103)
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/250/255447.jpg) (http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51XQ4V6BH0L._AA240_.jpg)
More HIP Schubert tunes for 4 hands from the Fiery Fortepiano Squadron:
(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5973/41qexkfhjzlss500xp7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Inlcudes the great fantasia in f minor, D. 904.
FLUTE music by Schubert and Boehm, played on early nineteenth-century instruments accompanied by a Graf fortepiano:
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9403/31rsye9s02lss400fb1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Quote from: fl.traverso on May 29, 2007, 05:47:42 AM
FLUTE music by Schubert and Boehm, played on early nineteenth-century instruments accompanied by a Graf fortepiano:
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9403/31rsye9s02lss400fb1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Hopefully not oop? Yes, oop but still available and prices seem to be rising at amazon.
Quote from: fl.traverso on May 29, 2007, 05:30:33 AM
More HIP Schubert tunes for 4 hands from the Fiery Fortepiano Squadron:
(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5973/41qexkfhjzlss500xp7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Inlcudes the great fantasia in f minor, D. 904.
That one is oop and unavailable as well. :(
NO! I've found that one as well, and at a good price. ;D
Quote from: AnthonyAthletic on April 08, 2007, 05:43:11 AMBarring the Warhorses, this is a truly remarkable set of Schubert sonatas.
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/49456.jpg)
Picked this up recently and have worked through about half, and I must share most of your enthusiasm. While he isn't good enough to make me forget about Kempff (no one is that good) or even Klien, his playing suits Schubert's music very well. The way he opens the final movement to D850 is wondrous. I like it almost as much as Andsnes' D850, and that's saying something.
Has anyone heard Andsnes' D 958 yet? I haven't seen any reviews either.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41HBp2KnfKL._AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: Todd on May 29, 2007, 06:30:17 AM
Picked this up recently and have worked through about half, and I must share most of your enthusiasm. While he isn't good enough to make me forget about Kempff (no one is that good) or even Klien, his playing suits Schubert's music very well. The way he opens the final movement to D850 is wondrous. I like it almost as much as Andsnes' D850, and that's saying something.
Kempff is my gold standard for Schubert, too.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/9a/f7/c7fec6da8da03696bae11110.L.jpg)
Quote from: Bunny on May 29, 2007, 07:09:18 AMHas anyone heard Andsnes' D 958 yet? I haven't seen any reviews either.
Yes, and it's very good. The high point of his survey (which is now done from what I gather) is his D850, which is probably my favorite version of that work. The D958 isn't quite that good, but it is exceptionally well done, and better than the D959 and D960. (He doen't bring enough depth to the B flat for me, though he's still good.) YMMV of course.
Quote from: Bunny on May 29, 2007, 06:09:11 AM
Hopefully not oop? Yes, oop but still available and prices seem to be rising at amazon.
??? Your shopping report on this title?
Quote from: fl.traverso on May 29, 2007, 07:21:07 AM
??? Your shopping report on this title?
Well, your suggestions usually become my shopping list. ;D
Just in the mail today:
(http://www.russiandvd.com/store/assets/product_images/imgs/front/39456.jpg)
Quote from: Todd on May 29, 2007, 07:17:25 AM
Yes, and it's very good. The high point of his survey (which is now done from what I gather) is his D850, which is probably my favorite version of that work. The D958 isn't quite that good, but it is exceptionally well done, and better than the D959 and D960. (He doen't bring enough depth to the B flat for me, though he's still good.) YMMV of course.
High praise, indeed! I think his D.960 is the perfect recording of that sonata. For me, it gets everything right.
(http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/511ZFG1VNFL._SS500_.jpg)
Quote from: Bunny on May 29, 2007, 05:10:58 PM
Well, your suggestions usually become my shopping list. ;D
Just in the mail today:
(http://www.russiandvd.com/store/assets/product_images/imgs/front/39456.jpg)
if they're even half a good as his bach suites, then you are in for a treat!
Does anyone have a good D959 recommendation or three? FWIW, my tastes in Schubert piano sonatas lean distinctly in the Richterian direction (at least currently).
Quote from: edward on May 29, 2007, 05:55:02 PM
Does anyone have a good D959 recommendation or three? FWIW, my tastes in Schubert piano sonatas lean distinctly in the Richterian direction (at least currently).
I was going to say Richter but...how about Yudina? She definitely leans so far in that direction that she all but falls over. :)
Buy it here: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=30129&name_role1=2&bcorder=2&name_id=10889&name_role=1 (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=30129&name_role1=2&bcorder=2&name_id=10889&name_role=1)
Download movements one and two here for free: Right click on the link: http://www.mariayudina.com/index.cfm (http://www.mariayudina.com/index.cfm) I am not sure if that's the same performance (though it probably is), but you'll get the gist. BTW, everything else is downloadable for free too! Or you can just listen. :)
Quote from: George on May 29, 2007, 05:57:21 PM
I was going to say Richter but...how about Yudina? She definitely leans so far in that direction that she all but falls over. :)
Buy it here: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=30129&name_role1=2&bcorder=2&name_id=10889&name_role=1 (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=30129&name_role1=2&bcorder=2&name_id=10889&name_role=1)
Download movements one and two here for free: Right click on the link: http://www.mariayudina.com/index.cfm (http://www.mariayudina.com/index.cfm) I am not sure if that's the same performance (though it probably is), but you'll get the gist. BTW, everything else is downloadable for free too! Or you can just listen. :)
I second the Ritter. ;D
Quote from: George on May 29, 2007, 05:31:14 PM
if they're even half a good as his bach suites, then you are in for a treat!
I just finished listening to the Wispelwey/Giacometti and it is a treat, indeed. :)
Schnabel is wonderful in D959 and makes perfect sense of the second theme of the second movement which a number fail to do. Brendel is also very good here
Quote from: George on May 29, 2007, 05:31:14 PM
if they're even half a good as his bach suites, then you are in for a treat!
A quite youthful-feeling Arpeggione compared to most, and that's why it is good.
Nowadays we have many Winterreise interpretations that sound like the
protagonist were a seventy-year-old man. :-[
Quote from: Bunny on May 29, 2007, 05:10:58 PM
Well, your suggestions usually become my shopping list. ;D
Well, I was hoping that they would make people's "to know" list rather than
their "to buy" list. ;)
Who do folks like for the Unfinished Symphony?
Kleiber? Boehm? Walter? Sinopoli? Wand? Or this one? (https://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=9494)
I have Boehm, It's nice, but a bit slow, so I want another.
Quote from: George on June 14, 2007, 07:34:44 AM
Who do folks like for the Unfinished Symphony?
Kleiber? Boehm? Walter? Sinopoli? Wand?
I have Boehm, It's nice, but a bit slow, so I want another.
Harnoncourt maybe?
Quote from: Florestan on June 14, 2007, 07:37:19 AM
Harnoncourt maybe?
I've only liked his Mozart Requiem, but I will sample (I am sure
he's fast). Thanks!
Quote from: edward on May 29, 2007, 05:55:02 PM
Does anyone have a good D959 recommendation or three? FWIW, my tastes in Schubert piano sonatas lean distinctly in the Richterian direction (at least currently).
Not Richterian obviuosly, but Pollini does a very good job in the recital where he played all 958, 59 and 60 form 1980's I think ::) This is the second recording of those late sonatas that made them meaningful for me (after Richter)
Quote from: edward on May 29, 2007, 05:55:02 PM
Does anyone have a good D959 recommendation or three? FWIW, my tastes in Schubert piano sonatas lean distinctly in the Richterian direction (at least currently).
Sokolov, mostly for the harrowing slow movement. I have it somewhere and can upload it if you wish.
I heard him play D958 last week but didn't like it much. The finale was too deliberate, a bore after Richter / 58 / M&A
Quote from: George on June 14, 2007, 07:34:44 AM
Who do folks like for the Unfinished Symphony?
Kleiber? Boehm? Walter? Sinopoli? Wand? Or this one? (https://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=9494)
I have Boehm, It's nice, but a bit slow, so I want another.
If Bohm is too slow for you avoid Sinopoli.
Quote from: George on June 14, 2007, 07:34:44 AM
Who do folks like for the Unfinished Symphony?
Kleiber? Boehm? Walter? Sinopoli? Wand? Or this one? (https://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=9494)
I have Boehm, It's nice, but a bit slow, so I want another.
Monteux
Quote from: Drasko on June 14, 2007, 07:44:11 AM
If Bohm is too slow for you avoid Sinopoli.
Thanks. That one's OOP anyway.
I am giving Boehm's another chance and my goodness, this is one is SO much better than I recall. I think I am all set for now. 8)
Quote from: sidoze on June 14, 2007, 07:43:02 AM
Sokolov, mostly for the harrowing slow movement. I have it somewhere and can upload it if you wish.
Yes please.
Quote from: sidoze on June 14, 2007, 07:43:02 AM
I heard him play D958 last week but didn't like it much. The finale was too deliberate, a bore after Richter / 58 / M&A
Is that the program that includes Scriabin? If so, how were those?
Quote from: Drasko on June 14, 2007, 07:47:32 AM
Yes please.
I'll try to pick it up tomorrow and upload it this weekend.
QuoteIs that the program that includes Scriabin? If so, how were those?
Yeah I loved the Scriabin pieces. 3rd Sonata also seemed too deliberate at times but the left-hand pieces were gorgeous and his trills in the 10th sonata were ferocious. A recording was uploaded to the Sokolov Yahoo group but I don't think it was a professional radio recording. Most likely there will be if he plays the Bad Kissingen festival this summer (they always record him for radio).
Encores were a mixed bag except for the Chopin Fantaisie-Impromptu which was breathtaking, even better than the last time I heard him. Some poor devil in front of me was shaking his head in disbelief at the speed and accuracy of the outer sections.
Quote from: George on June 14, 2007, 07:34:44 AM
Who do folks like for the Unfinished Symphony?
Kleiber? Boehm? Walter? Sinopoli? Wand? Or this one? (https://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=9494)
I have Boehm, It's nice, but a bit slow, so I want another.
I have the Bohm and like it, as well as Toscanini, which I prefer a little more.
Quote from: SimonGodders on June 14, 2007, 08:53:17 AM
I have the Bohm and like it...
Thanks, now that I hear it again, I agree.
Quote from: sidoze on June 14, 2007, 07:43:02 AM
Sokolov, mostly for the harrowing slow movement. I have it somewhere and can upload it if you wish.
I heard him play D958 last week but didn't like it much. The finale was too deliberate, a bore after Richter / 58 / M&A
Is the Sokolov D960 to be found in the below box set?
http://www.amazon.com/Grigory-Sokolov-Box-Ludwig-Beethoven/dp/B0000CE7E6/ref=sr_1_1/103-6086389-5715826?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1181842585&sr=1-1
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FGQBQPXDL._AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: George on June 14, 2007, 07:34:44 AM
Who do folks like for the Unfinished Symphony?
Kleiber? Boehm? Walter? Sinopoli? Wand? Or this one? (https://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=9494)
I have Boehm, It's nice, but a bit slow, so I want another.
Szell or Bernstein ought to do the trick. There are two Bernsteins, I haven't heard his later Concergebouw but his earlier SONY is excellent. Bohm is just so boring...
Quote from: George on June 14, 2007, 07:34:44 AM
Who do folks like for the Unfinished Symphony?
Kleiber? Boehm? Walter? Sinopoli? Wand? Or this one? (https://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=9494)
I have Boehm, It's nice, but a bit slow, so I want another.
Böhm is as dry as the sole of an old shoe....
If you're looking for a "traditional" approach - and I guess you do.. ;D
Krips, George,
Josef Krips... 8) A real authentic "Viennese" recording.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41G7SQSXNPL._AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Schubert-Syms-Nos-8-9/dp/B00020QWAU/ref=pd_bowtega_1/026-6071880-7954851?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1181846102&sr=1-1)
(Available at UK Amazon)
If you want Kleiber, he is
very good too - "dad"
Erich Kleiber that is!
But that's an historical recording. Totally different approach btw: "Angst" is the keyword there.
Q
Quote from: Que on June 14, 2007, 10:43:05 AM
Böhm is as dry as the sole of an old shoe....
If you're looking for a "traditional" approach - and I guess you do.. ;D
Krips, George, Josef Krips... 8) A real authentic "Viennese" recording.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41G7SQSXNPL._AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Schubert-Syms-Nos-8-9/dp/B00020QWAU/ref=pd_bowtega_1/026-6071880-7954851?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1181846102&sr=1-1)
(Available at UK Amazon)
If you want Kleiber, he is very good too - "dad" Erich Kleiber that is!
But that's an historical recording. Totally different approach btw: "Angst" is the keyword there.
Q
Thanks, Q. :)
So what is the keyword with Krips?
Quote from: rubio on June 14, 2007, 10:30:51 AM
Is the Sokolov D960 to be found in the below box set?
Apparenty so. But J&R has the same boxes for $32
Quote from: Que on June 14, 2007, 10:43:05 AM
Böhm is as dry as the sole of an old shoe....
Then you're listening to the wrong recording. You need late '70s VPO coupled with Dvorak 9th (Japanese DG)
Quote from: George on June 14, 2007, 12:34:36 PM
Thanks, Q. :)
So what is the keyword with Krips?
"Viennese", but that very hard to describe. I'll try. :-\
It's a Romantic style with a strong focus on rhythmic development (pulse) and a very finely grained, transparent, sophisticated sound. But the sound can be brooding and lush too, but is never comes on strong. It has a certain, irresistible charm.
Better listen to some samples, because I'm sure this can't make any sense! 8)
Q
Quote from: Que on June 14, 2007, 01:48:07 PM
"Viennese", but that very hard to describe. I'll try. :-\
It's a Romantic style with a strong focus on rhythmic development (pulse) and a very finely grained, transparent, sophisticated sound. But the sound can be brooding and lush too, but is never comes on strong. It has a certain, irresistible charm.
Better listen to some samples, because I'm sure this can't make any sense! 8)
Q
No, it makes perfect sense. Thanks. :)
From the samples I think Kleiber is for me.
Holden wrote "There is something magical about Schnabel's Schubert which I find hard to describe and I see him as the true champion of Schubert's piano works which is fitting when you consider that he was the first major pianist to really promote them."
It depends what you mean by major pianist: the 20th century pianist who did most for Schubert was Eduard Erdmann IMO. Though he recorded the sonatas after the war at a time when he was already quite ill & his technique slightly iffy, his interpretation of D.959 in particular remains unsurpassed for me, the spasmodic interruption of the andantino being more shocking than any I know. The slow movement of D.664 even surpasses Richter - unbearably moving. I believe the latter & the late sonatas were available on Tahra at one time - I have them on LP in a German EMI box.
Quote from: mjwal on June 15, 2007, 07:06:08 AM
It depends what you mean by major pianist: the 20th century pianist who did most for Schubert was Eduard Erdmann IMO.
Unfortunately I haven't heard him, and can only recall seeing one CD entitled Piano-Philosopher (or something close to that) and the repertoire didn't appeal to me at all. A pianist friend of mine spoke highly of him though.
For anyone interested, Sokolov's D959:
http://download.yousendit.com/AA548E110A1CE30A
Quote from: sidoze on June 16, 2007, 08:11:31 AM
Unfortunately I haven't heard him, and can only recall seeing one CD entitled Piano-Philosopher (or something close to that) and the repertoire didn't appeal to me at all. A pianist friend of mine spoke highly of him though.
For anyone interested, Sokolov's D959:
http://download.yousendit.com/AA548E110A1CE30A
Thanks. A remarkable performance of the slow movement, as you said. I'll give this one a few listens to digest it fully.
Quote from: sidoze on June 16, 2007, 08:11:31 AM
Unfortunately I haven't heard him, and can only recall seeing one CD entitled Piano-Philosopher (or something close to that) and the repertoire didn't appeal to me at all. A pianist friend of mine spoke highly of him though.
For anyone interested, Sokolov's D959:
http://download.yousendit.com/AA548E110A1CE30A
Thanks Tony!
I just ordered his set- I know Kempff mostly from a few Beethoven sonatas, rather austere but subtle and rewarding. I haven't heard his Schubert yet...
I have this and find it a bit mundane, to be truthful. Part of the problem is, I think, Schubert's inferiority on the piano when compared with Beethoven, but part of it, to be sure, is also Kempff's stature and very focused , upright, archetypal german playing that does not excite in Schubert as it does Beethoven.
I own it and I like what I've heard.
Thanks for that.
Kempff is a very sensitive musician in this repertoire, and I heartily reccommend his recordings.
Kempffs playing is smooth and lyrical. Very beautiful, but I really think his interpretation makes a somewhat static or almost dull impression, and that too little is happening in these often very long movements of Schubert´s sonatas. So even if I got the set a year ago or so, I haven´t listened to more than 1/4 of it.
Quote from: Harry on August 22, 2007, 10:30:39 AM
Kempff is a very sensitive musician in this repertoire, and I heartily reccommend his recordings.
Doesn't tell us anything.
premont, yes kempff can certainly be like that. His Beethoven 8,14,15,23&26 for instance certainly raises an eyebrow or two in its thorough charmlessness: however I do like the ruthlessness and lack of indulgence, and it's certainly preferable to the mawkish approach that Schubert and many of his interpreters; I find the likes of Uchida's Mozart and the romantic sugar she brings very difficult.
It was a lot cheaper than the Schiff and I mostly wanted it for half a dozen early sonatas I'm missing.
Uchida? Romantic sugar?
Not to these ears.
for Schubert sonatas I only recommend Jeno Jandos on Naxos. He did the complete Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven and Schubert. I must say his phrasing is GODLIKE. Haven't heard anything as good as his LvB set ever since.
Quote from: Bonehelm on August 22, 2007, 09:59:02 PM
for Schubert sonatas I only recommend Jeno Jandos on Naxos. He did the complete Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven and Schubert. I must say his phrasing is GODLIKE. Haven't heard anything as good as his LvB set ever since.
(http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/Smileys/default/lmao.gif)
Quote from: Peregrine on August 22, 2007, 11:33:20 PM
(http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/Smileys/default/lmao.gif)
Is that an agreement or a disagreement?
Quote from: Peregrine on August 22, 2007, 11:33:20 PM
(http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/Smileys/default/lmao.gif)
LOL.
I looked quick and thought it was Tony. ;D
FWIW, I do like what little I have heard of Yando (and Brendel and Klein's Schubert) but after hearing Richter's Schubert, I haven't had much reason to listen to anyone else's. He finds a profound depth in these works that words cannot describe.
I sampled a few sonatas from Kempff's set and was very dissapointed. It just didn't do anything for me.
I have begun a discussion on favorite Richter Schubert recordings in the Richter thread.
Come join the party! (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3196.msg81555/topicseen.html#msg81555) 8)
Quote from: George on June 14, 2007, 07:34:44 AM
Who do folks like for the Unfinished Symphony?
Kleiber? Boehm? Walter? Sinopoli? Wand? Or this one? (https://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=9494)
I have Boehm, It's nice, but a bit slow, so I want another.
Sorry for being so late to the party George. My favored two to this point: Kleiber and Sinopoli.
Quote from: Bogey on October 07, 2007, 11:19:15 AM
Sorry for being so late to the party George. My favored two to this point: Kleiber and Sinopoli.
Yes, I need to check out that Sinopoli.
Quote from: George on June 14, 2007, 07:34:44 AM
Who do folks like for the Unfinished Symphony?
Kleiber? Boehm? Walter? Sinopoli? Wand? Or this one? (https://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=9494)
I have Boehm, It's nice, but a bit slow, so I want another.
The Unfinished means van Beinum (Philips) to me. The most finished Unfinished ever.Link:
http://www.amazon.com/Philips-Recordings-1954-1958-Vol-2/dp/B00067R3CA/ref=sr_1_3/002-1703126-7332018?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1191797581&sr=1-3
Quote from: premont on October 07, 2007, 02:54:16 PM
The Unfinished means van Beinum (Philips) to me. The most finished Unfinished ever.Link:
http://www.amazon.com/Philips-Recordings-1954-1958-Vol-2/dp/B00067R3CA/ref=sr_1_3/002-1703126-7332018?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1191797581&sr=1-3
Interesting choice! :) I would assume it sounds very lean?
Q
Does anyone else have a full set of Schubert sonatas available besides Kempff? I'm not interested in Richter.
Quote from: MN Dave on January 23, 2008, 05:32:34 AM
Does anyone else have a full set of Schubert sonatas available besides Kempff? I'm not interested in Richter.
Richter doesn't have a full set. :P
Quote from: George on January 23, 2008, 05:51:56 AM
Richter doesn't have a full set. :P
I am not interested in Richter.
Quote from: MN Dave on January 23, 2008, 05:55:47 AM
I am not interested in Richter.
That's good because he didn't record a full set.
Quote from: MN Dave on January 23, 2008, 05:32:34 AM
Does anyone else have a full set of Schubert sonatas available besides Kempff?
It doesn't appear so. András Schiff recorded them all and a box was available once. I kept waiting for the price to drop. It never did and now it's disappeared completely.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on January 23, 2008, 06:15:13 AM
It doesn't appear so. András Schiff recorded them all and a box was available once. I kept waiting for the price to drop. It never did and now it's disappeared completely.
Sarge
Thanks, Sarge.
Quote from: M für immer on August 22, 2007, 11:51:55 PM
Is that an agreement or a disagreement?javascript:void(0);
I'm pissing myself laughing at your suggestion...
You might consider both Budget boxes.
Endres being my favourite, I have Schiff also, but that set does not work for me....
Quote from: Harry on January 23, 2008, 06:43:06 AM
You might consider both Budget boxes.
Endres being my favourite, I have Schiff also, but that set does not work for me....
How do those compare to Kempff, Harry?
Quote from: MN Dave on January 23, 2008, 06:47:05 AM
How do those compare to Kempff, Harry?
The Endres is more authentic in feel, and not romanticized. Dalberto is more of a earthy player grounded in the ways of old.
Compared to Kempff, Endres can hold its ground, Dalberto is from quite a different planet.
But whatever you will buy, Kempff must be part of the deal.
His poetical, and fine snared approach is incomparable.
Quote from: Harry on January 23, 2008, 06:53:12 AM
The Endres is more authentic in feel, and not romanticized. Dalberto is more of a earthy player grounded in the ways of old.
Compared to Kempff, Endres can hold its ground, Dalberto is from quite a different planet.
But whatever you will buy, Kempff must be part of the deal.
His poetical, and fine snared approach is incomparable.
Thanks for the comparison. I already have the Kempff. :)
How about this one? (http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=7201564&style=classical)
Quote from: MN Dave on January 23, 2008, 06:47:05 AM
How do those compare to Kempff, Harry?
Thanks, Harry. I hadn't known about the Endres and Dalberto sets. Here are a few choice snippets from Gramophone reviews of Endres:
'' 'I cannot endure the accursed chopping in which even distinguished pianoforte players indulge and which delights neither the ear nor the mind.' Thus, Schubert wrote in a letter to his parents on July 25th, 1825. It is, therefore, no surprise to learn from the notes for this new issue that Michael Endres has won, among other prestigious awards, both the first prize and the special prize at the International Schubert Competition. He plays with such sensitivity and poetry that one feels convinced his is the kind of lyrical, expressive playing of which Schubert himself would have wholeheartedly approved."
"If there is a serious criticism of Endres's playing here, it is that it sometimes sounds too reserved, softening the music's more overtly dramatic moments. Take the outer movements of the A minor Sonata, where he seems to hold back at times. Nevertheless, like Schiff and Brendel, Endres vividly conjures the Relique Sonata's orchestral qualities, both in terms of texture and of large-scale form (although Brendel omits the first movement's exposition repeat). Schiff exploits the Bosendorfer's silvery sound to produce some ethereal effects."
"Endres's subtle, elegant performance has some beautiful moments; few can fail to be touched by playing of such refined sensitivity. However, just occasionally, I would like a little more fire."
Overall this seems like a worthy set, especially now that Schiff has gone missing.
Sarge
Quote from: Harry on January 23, 2008, 06:43:06 AM
You might consider both Budget boxes.
Endres being my favourite
I just saw the price at JPC ;D :D ;D ...a no-brainer then. Just ordered it. Thanks, Harry 8)
Sarge
Quote from: MN Dave on January 23, 2008, 07:01:55 AM
How about this one? (http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=7201564&style=classical)
The Wurtz is a highly enjoyable proposition. I thought it was out of print.
I order it ASAP.
You have done me a favour my friend. :)
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on January 23, 2008, 07:12:57 AM
I just saw the price at JPC ;D :D ;D ...a no-brainer then. Just ordered it. Thanks, Harry 8)
Sarge
You might consider the other box with Schubert works from Endres too Sarge. I have that too, and its gorgeous as well.
Plus sound from both sets is excellent.
Quote from: Harry on January 23, 2008, 07:16:31 AM
You might consider the other box with Schubert works from Endres too Sarge. I have that too, and its gorgeous as well.
Plus sound from both sets is excellent.
Done. Thanks.
Sarge
Quote from: Harry on January 23, 2008, 07:13:59 AM
The Wurtz is a highly enjoyable proposition. I thought it was out of print.
I order it ASAP.
You have done me a favour my friend. :)
Glad I could help. :)
I bought the Kempff set a few months back to swat down a few sonatas I didn't know. The set omits a couple (including the one minute fragment D994), but this cycle is gets a bit confusing- see the Grove listing. Despite his Germanic charmless dispatch and ruthlessness Kempff plays with a smile on his face, quite paradoxical, and can at the same time find an indulgence that justifies itself. This is a key document for the Schubert sonatas and I've returned to it many times.
My favorite set is the Walter Klein performances available on Vox.
Been listening to Schubert here and there over the past few days and was wondering what specific recordings that you own that you enjoy, especially outside of his 8th Symphony.
Bit of good news-bad news here; the bad news is that I only have three Schubert recordings, but the good news is that I enjoy all of them. In the listening thread I mentioned Jeno Jando's piano disc with the A major sonata and Wanderer Fantasy; while Jando's trademark humming is at its loudest and most off-key throughout, the playing itself is quite lyrically appealing. Even better is an SACD hybrid from Channel Classics with Dejan Lazic playing the great B flat sonata D. 960; the recording is beautifully engineered and it's a rare thing indeed which surpasses the beauty of those first thirty seconds. 0:) I always close my eyes and see snow gently falling ...
My third Schubert album is Harnoncourt's complete symphonies. A top pick for sure. 8) Will be watching this thread closely for recommendations - the rest of the sonatas are beckoning!
Piano sonatas: Andsnes, Richter, Katchen, Lewis, Gilels
Piano trios: Beaux Arts, Golub/Kaplan/Carr trio, La Gaia Scienza (HIP)
String quartets: Takács, Leipzig
String quintet: Quatuor Sine Nomine, Hagen, Hollywood
Lieder: Goerne, Holzmair, Prégardien, Von Otter
Ninth Symphony: Bernstein/Concertgebouw
And for the octet, these two gems:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4169ECK3W9L._SS500_.jpg) (http://www.live-classics.com/images/101.jpg)
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7416/514n1746wnlss500dg7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
What excitement! What intensity! ;)
FL
(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2324/bnwc117196voorkantzh7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8682/bnwc117196tlisttu5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
The best recording that I have heard of this original 1835 instrument by Trondlin, which was rediscovered by Immerseel himself in a nearly perfect condition and is a superb example of
Viennese fortepiano making of the time.
Interpretation: deeply lyrical and suitably sentimental
FL
(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9317/6107ad6wkelss400gifys8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Exemplifies Staier's versatility as a Lieder accompanist. And Pregardien's ideal lyric tenor voice! The frontrunner among all recordings of this song cycle with fortepiano as far as I am concerned.
FL
That would be the excellent sets of piano music played by Michael Endres, and the Symphonies played by ASMF conducted by Marinner.
SQ by the Leipziger Streich Quartet, Melos Quartet, Endellion Quartet, the trios by the Stuttgart Piano Trio, and a lot more recordings of his chambermusic, and part songs for males. :)
Quote from: erato on January 25, 2008, 02:43:08 AM
Part [songs for males]? Is that an eunuch?
;D ;D ;D
The Hagen Quartet in the G major D.887 and the string quintet.
Sinopoli an C. Kleiber in the Unfinished.
Solti in the Great C major.
Talich Quartet in Death and the Maiden.
There's a enormous hole where my lieder collection should have been. I'll get there.
Jandö's Laserlight disc of Impromptus and Moments Musicaux
Jon Vickers's harrowing, mesmerizing Winterreise on VAI
The Kodaly/Jandö Trout Quintet on Naxos
Wunderlich's Die schöne Müllerin on DG--what a glorious voice!
Bostridge's first EMI volume of Schubert Lieder--lots of the "greatest hits"--Bostridge can sound a bit prissy and fussy, but he has a fine voice and great intelligence
Piano Trios - Beaux Arts Trio
String Quartets - Melos Quartet
String Quintet - Emerson String Quartet with M. Rostropovich
Piano Trios - Trio de Trieste
Quartets - Lindsays
Impromptus - Pires, Brendel or Lupu
Sonatas - Richter, Richter and Richter. 8)
Trout Quintet - Schiff and Hagen
Symphonies - Boehm
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VMQ1KBVDL._AA240_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21RHTTVDSPL._AA130_.jpg)
Quote from: BorisG on January 25, 2008, 08:33:27 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VMQ1KBVDL._AA240_.jpg)
Now available on Brilliant:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w300/front/0/5028421922751.jpg)
Q
(http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/1904/41m156d25qlss500le8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/418ERRMWY4L._AA240_.jpg)
Quite obviously
I just love Schubert and mainly because he is a natural composer of beautiful melodies. I could fill this whole thread with the recordings but here are a very special select few.
Piano sonata D894 - Richter
Piano sonata D906 - Haskil, Schnabel (or if you want stereo - Kovacevich)
Leider - Ann Murray/Graeme Johnson (Hyperion Vol 3)
Piano trios - BAT
Symphony #9 either Abbado/COE or Leibowitz RPO
Symphony #8 - Sinopoli
String Quintet - Hollywood SQ
String Quartet - (Death and the Maiden) Hollywood SQ
Piano Quintet - (Trout) Schnabel/Pro Arte SQ
Winterreise - DF-D/Moore
For the Piano Trios, I'm partial to La Gaia Scienza (period instruments) on Winter & Winter.
All the ones I've heard. ;D
For piano Sonatas:
D960: Richter, Afanassiev, Sofronitsky, Sokolov
D959: Lupu, Sokolov
D958: Richter
D940: Richter/Britten, Gilels/Gilels - still not heard Perahia/Lupu, but everyone raves about it...
D894: Richter, Afanassiev, Lupu, Sokolov
D850: Richter, Gilels
D845: Richter, Bashkirov
D840: Richter
D760 'Wanderer': Richter
D784: Richter, Lupu
D664: Richter
D625: Richter
D575: Richter
Still not sold on Schnabel, but think it's gonna' happen sometime soon...Pollini and Leonskaja have also done well with the sonatas.
String Quartets:
I like the Hungarian SQ on EMI Gemini and a begrudging nod to the Italians on Philips duo, but don't miss an intense Juilliard SQ 'Death and the Maiden' on Testament (coupled with an equally impressive Beethoven, Op.131 - the best!). Whilst second the impressive Hollywood SQ recording of the quintet, also on Testament.
Trios - Beaux Arts, definitely!
Not so hot on symphonic works, but like Toscanini for 8 and 9, Wand and Beecham in the earlier symphonies...
Quote from: Peregrine on January 25, 2008, 01:57:30 PM
Still not sold on Schnabel, but think it's gonna' happen sometime soon...
Why?
I am not sold on him, either.
Quote from: Grazioso on January 25, 2008, 04:26:21 AM
Jon Vickers's harrowing, mesmerizing Winterreise on VAI
Caramba! You have that!! :o It's one of those special recordings that never seem to be available (I only heard half a dozen songs on a radio program :P)
Good thread. Schubert can use some pushing :D.
I'll only mention recordings that illuminate some great works in a very special way:
- The magical Elly Ameling HM song recital, with the most enchanting Der Hirt auf dem Felsen ever.
- The splendiferous and brilliant Rilling Galicia S.O. recording of symphonies 1 and 2.
- The gutsy, dramatic Quartett Collegium Aureum recording of the d minor Quartet ("Der Tod und das Mädchen"). OOP :P
- The magisterial, intense and achingly beautiful Unfinished of Jochum (Concertgebouw Orch).
For the piano sonatas I have no special favourite - there are just too many: these are inexhaustible works. But I have a soft spot for the work that made me discover them: the A major, D. 959. That was in Bresson's film Au hasard, Balthazar (the andantino is the recurring theme). I don't know which recording was used in the film, but among dozens I've heard, Brendel's mix of pudeur and tragedy fits best with these two unforgettable works.
- A special word for a special work: Ständchen, maybe Schubert's most purple plum in a very large basket. I think this short work epitomizes everything that makes Schubert one of music's greatest geniuses. A particularly lambent and searching interpretation will be found in this recording (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UTOLBA/ref=cm_rdp_product_img)
QuoteBogey
Been listening to Schubert here and there over the past few days and was wondering what specific recordings that you own that you enjoy, especially outside of his 8th Symphony.
Some of my favorite recordings:
Symphonies 3, 5, 6 / Beecham, RPO
Symphony 8 / Mravinski, Leningrad
Symphony 9 / Krips, LSO and Walter, Columbia
String Quintet / Weller Quartet, Gurtler
Quartets 13, 14, 15 / Alban Berg Quartet
Trio opus 100 / Adolf and Hermann Busch, Rudolf Serkin
Fantasia for violin and piano / Adolf Busch, Serkin
Fantasia for piano 4 hands / Perahia, Lupu
Piano Sonata D 850 / Curzon
Piano Sonatas D 959, 960 / Rudolf Serkin
Lieder / Elisabeth Schumann
Die schöne Müllerin / Patzak, Rauscheizen
Winterreise / Souzay, Baldwin
Schwangesang / Fischer Dieskau, Moore
Mass D 678 / Gardiner
Mass D 950 / Sawallisch
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on January 25, 2008, 07:36:28 PM
Caramba! You have that!! :o It's one of those special recordings that never seem to be available (I only heard half a dozen songs on a radio program :P)
It's available from Amazon.com for $21.98.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/2180RG89C7L._AA130_.jpg)
I just remembered that we already have a thread for this. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,55.0.html)
Perhaps a merge is in order?
Quote from: George on January 26, 2008, 05:10:40 AM
I just remembered that we already have a thread for this. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,55.0.html)
Perhaps a merge is in order?
Maybe the one of our friendly neighborhood moderators can link the two George...and good morning to you my friend.
Quote from: Bogey on January 26, 2008, 05:16:06 AM
Maybe the one of our friendly neighborhood moderators can link the two George...and good morning to you my friend.
And good morning to you, my friend. :)
Mt favourite Schubert Lieder recital of all time
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41E2VSXEZ5L._SS500_.jpg)
Particularly the songs she recorded with Fischer.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RQHMHOqVL._AA240_.jpg)
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/dec00/Schubert_CompSonatas_Kempff_CC.jpg)
(http://www.preiserrecords.at/streamPicture.php?ean=717281893060)
Quote from: George on January 26, 2008, 05:10:40 AM
I just remembered that we already have a thread for this. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,55.0.html)
Perhaps a merge is in order?
$:): Done. 8)
(Always there when a
cleanup is in order. 8))
Quote from: Maciek on January 26, 2008, 07:28:01 AM
$:): Done. 8)
(Always there when a cleanup is in order. 8))
Thanks much Maciek. :)
A little known Schubert Lieder & instrumental music disk, but one of my favorites. The accompaniment to "Gretchen..." is particularly effective on the fortepiano, and the singing is very nice! :)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/Schubertiadecover.jpg)
8)
----------------
Now playing:
K 550 Symphony in g arr for Piano & Wind Quartet by Hummel - Fumiko Shiraga - K 550 Symphony #40 in g 1st mvmt - Molto allegro
Quote from: Bogey on January 24, 2008, 06:59:17 PM
Been listening to Schubert here and there over the past few days and was wondering what specific recordings that you own that you enjoy, especially outside of his 8th Symphony.
Besides a few major works and the Lieder, I got relatively late into Schubert.
It seems that I needed HIP performances to "unlock" most of his works. So, many rec. below are HIP.
Symphonies: Van Immerseel/ Anima Eterna (HIP); symph.#8 & #9 - Krips/LSO; #8 - Erich Kleiber/BP (
historical)
Octet D803: L'Archibudelli & Mozzafiato (HIP); Léner Qt & others (
historical).
String quintet: L'Archibudelli (HIP); Festetics Qt & Kuijken (HIP); Pro Arte Qt & others (
historical) Piano quintet: L'Archibudelli & Van Immerseel (HIP); mbrs of the Budapest Qt, Levine & Horszowski.
String quartets: the Festetics Qt (HIP) with D46 & D804 is hot. D804 & D173 by the Alban Berg Qt.
Piano trios: La Gaia Scienza (HIP); Casals c.s.; Cortot/Casals/Thibaud for #1 (
historical); Serkin & the Busch brothers for #2 (
historical)Violin sonatas: Leertouwer/ Reynolds (HIP); Laredo/ Brown.
Piano works: Impromptus D899 & D935, Moments Musicaux - Edwin Fischer; everything by Andreas Staier (HIP); piano works for four hands - Frantz & Eschenbach.
Masses: Bruno Weil/ Orch. of the Age of Enlightenment/Wiener Sängerknaben/Chorus Viennensis (HIP).
Lieder: everything by Hans Hotter, everything by Elly Ameling, Julius Patzak's "Die Schöne Müllerin", Fischer-Dieskau in early & live recordings.
Historical singers (from the '78rpm era): Gerhard Hüsch, Lotte Lehmann, Elisabeth Schumann, Alexander Kipnis, Richard Tauber.
Q
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 26, 2008, 07:45:31 AM
A little known Schubert Lieder & instrumental music disk, but one of my favorites. The accompaniment to "Gretchen..." is particularly effective on the fortepiano, and the singing is very nice! :)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/Schubertiadecover.jpg)
Indeed, didn't know it!
I'm just starting to explore Schubert's Lieder with fortepiano accompaniment, so your rec. will come in handy. :)
Q
Quote from: Maciek on January 26, 2008, 07:28:01 AM
$:): Done. 8)
(Always there when a cleanup is in order. 8))
Gracias, mod-casalingo. :)
Quote from: Que on January 26, 2008, 07:55:22 AM
Indeed, didn't know it!
I'm just starting to explore Schubert's Lieder with fortepiano accompaniment, so your rec. will come in handy. :)
Q
I don't think Partridge is a widely distributed label (this is the only recording I have from them), but if anyone should be able to find it, you should. Worth your while to have a look, anyway. :)
8)
----------------
Now playing:
K 550 Symphony in g arr for Piano & Wind Quartet by Hummel - Fumiko Shiraga - K 550 Symphony #40 in g 3rd mvmt - Menuetto
Remembers me, that I still have so many cd's to listen to from the big Schubert box...... ::)
Quote from: Harry on January 26, 2008, 08:27:57 AM
Remembers me, that I still have so many cd's to listen to from the big Schubert box...... ::)
Which big Schubert box is that, Harry?
8)
----------------
Now playing:
Spohr Nonet & Octet - The Gaudier Ensemble - Spohr Octet in E for Winds & Strings Op 32 1st mvmt
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 26, 2008, 08:47:54 AM
Which big Schubert box is that, Harry?
8)
----------------
Now playing:
Spohr Nonet & Octet - The Gaudier Ensemble - Spohr Octet in E for Winds & Strings Op 32 1st mvmt
Why, the Hyperion of course.
Don't you remember my struggle with it........? ;)
Quote from: Harry on January 26, 2008, 08:49:27 AM
Why, the Hyperion of course.
Don't you remember my struggle with it........? ;)
Oh yes, the singing. I remember now. If it helps, my aversion to singing was even stronger than yours, I think, and Schubert was the one who helped me get over it. Somehow, my feelings of being
simpaticó with Franzrl helped me to relate, I guess. Hope it works for you, too. (Not like I am a HUGE vocal fan now, of course, but I am a lot further down the road than I once was ;) ) :)
8)
----------------
Now playing:
Spohr Nonet & Octet - The Gaudier Ensemble - Spohr Octet in E for Winds & Strings Op 32 4th mvmt
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on January 25, 2008, 07:36:28 PM
Caramba! You have that!! :o
I own it too:
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/gm2/SchWinVic.jpg)
but I still prefer this one:
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/gmgpictures/Winter.jpg)
Other favorite Schubert recordings:
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/new/SchZil.jpg) (http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/goodmusic/SchubertUch78.jpg)
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/gm2/SchImBr.jpg) (http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/gm2/SchRichRel.jpg)
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/gm2/SchuAf.jpg) (http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/gm2/SchLup.jpg)
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/gm2/SchuHar.jpg) (http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/gm2/Schu59Solti.jpg)
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/ngmg/schub9.jpg) (http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/gm2/Schu9Don.jpg)
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/gm2/SQM.jpg) (http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/gm2/SchISR.jpg)
And of course this:
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/gm2/SchjSongs.jpg)
Sarge
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on January 25, 2008, 08:10:19 PM
- The magisterial, intense and achingly beautiful Unfinished of Jochum (Concertgebouw Orch).
Is this on Tahra?
Quote from: George on June 14, 2007, 07:46:29 AM
Thanks. That one's OOP anyway.
You were referring to this Sinopoli/Philharmonia/Schubert 8th?
If so, you didn't look too extensively. This performance of the Schubert leaves ALL others groveling in the dust. Maximum emotion, flawless playing and conducting,superb recording. Too slow?? You gotta be kidding. Perfect tempi throughout. When you listen to it, you will immediately play it over and over and over again, etc. And the Mendelssohn ain't "chopped liver" either. Any body that thinks this performance "too slow" is unadulteratedly NUTS.
http://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Symphony-No-8-Mendelssohn-No-4/dp/B000001GNF/ref=sr_1_32?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1201404338&sr=1-32
Quote from: rubio on January 26, 2008, 09:25:08 AM
Is this on Tahra?
Good question. I'm not sure about that. Mine is from a Philips lp from the mid-fifties. A copy of which was shared on the net some time ago. Both the lp and the fileshare coupled it with a fasten-your-seatbelts Böhm
Jupiter, also with the Concertgebouw. Timings for the Unfinished are 14:32 and 12:25 (I didn't find those of the Tahra issue). As I type I'm attempting to upload (never done that before :P) and if it works I'll post the link here.
BTW, an early seventies Jochum Boston Symphony disc issued by DGG featured that very same coupling, I guess this pairing has some appeal, even if it lacks any kind of musical logic.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on January 26, 2008, 09:16:22 AM
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/gm2/SQM.jpg)
I didn't dare mention that, as I come close to excessive QM worship :P The pure sound they create, near-perfect in a crystalline way, is just amazing. I also like the slightly more rugged performance by the Panocha quartet on Supraphon, but that QM Schubert disc has a steely beauty that is amazing to behold.
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on January 27, 2008, 05:55:08 AM
Good question. I'm not sure about that. Mine is from a Philips lp from the mid-fifties. A copy of which was shared on the net some time ago. Both the lp and the fileshare coupled it with a fasten-your-seatbelts Böhm Jupiter, also with the Concertgebouw. Timings for the Unfinished are 14:32 and 12:25 (I didn't find those of the Tahra issue). As I type I'm attempting to upload (never done that before :P) and if it works I'll post the link here.
BTW, an early seventies Jochum Boston Symphony disc issued by DGG featured that very same coupling, I guess this pairing has some appeal, even if it lacks any kind of musical logic.
It seems like it is the same from the Tahra site:
http://www.tahra.com/catalogue.php?search_field=pavtpa.id_productsattribute=2&search_data=115&page=2
It says these are studio recordings (1951-1952) reissued by permission of Philips Classics.
I tried twice to upload the files but they seem to vanish into thin air ???
Quote from: Peregrine on January 25, 2008, 01:57:30 PM
For piano Sonatas:
D960: Richter, Afanassiev, Sofronitsky, Sokolov
D959: Lupu, Sokolov
D894: Richter, Afanassiev, Lupu, Sokolov
D850: Richter, Gilels
Are the Sokolov performances from bootlegs? Or are the D960 and the D984 from the Naive box set? And can you find the Gilels and Richter D850 on CD?
Quote from: rubio on January 29, 2008, 10:57:19 AM
Are the Sokolov performances from bootlegs? Or are the D960 and the D984 from the Naive box set? And can you find the Gilels and Richter D850 on CD?
Gilels:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Schubert-Liszt-Piano-Works-Franz/dp/B000003FG9/ref=sr_11_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1201638407&sr=11-1
Bit pricey... :-\
The Richter D.850 is from the Prague set (14/6/56).
The Sokolov items you mention I own them from the Naive set, but there might be bootlegs around.
Quote from: Peregrine on January 29, 2008, 11:33:38 AM
Gilels:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Schubert-Liszt-Piano-Works-Franz/dp/B000003FG9/ref=sr_11_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1201638407&sr=11-1
Bit pricey... :-\
The Richter D.850 is from the Prague set (14/6/56).
The Sokolov items you mention I own them from the Naive set, but there might be bootlegs around.
Thank you for the info. The Gilels is a bit too pricey for me, though ;D.
Quote from: Lilas Pastia on January 28, 2008, 03:29:04 PM
I tried twice to upload the files but they seem to vanish into thin air ???
Apparently the file is too large. How do I cut it in pieces?
Quote from: Peregrine on January 29, 2008, 11:33:38 AM
Gilels:
Bit pricey... :-\
This is a very fine D.850! Hard to understand why it's OOP.
QuoteThe Richter D.850 is from the Prague set (14/6/56).
This same (live) Prague performance can also be found on Music & Arts.
Also from 1956 is a *studio* D.850 released by Melodiya.
Sadly, all of these are OOP and rare/pricey.
One oddity: the Urania (pirate) label has released what is purportedly a D.850 (same as the Melodiya) but in fact is nothing of the kind. It's labeled D.850, all right, but it's actually
D.845!! I'm happy to have it for the D.845...but if someone's looking for D.850:
AVOID THE URANIA!!(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51A2SAMMT8L._SS500_.jpg)
<---- Actually D.845.
Quote from: rubio on January 29, 2008, 11:55:39 AM
Thank you for the info. The Gilels is a bit too pricey for me, though ;D.
I own this and bought it for $AUS28 a few years ago. I didn't realise it was that valuable - maybe I'd better listen to it again.
Does anybody here know if the Hyperion Kovacevich D'960 only was released on LP?
Quote from: SimonGodders on April 08, 2007, 04:05:08 AM
There's other bits out there - some Schubert on the DG In Memoriam and some on the Richter in Recital '58 CD on Philips with the famous Mussorgsky 'Pictures'.
The impromptus (2nd and 4th) in that Recital are a must, especially the 2nd. you will get the Pictures as a bonus and not the impromptus ! I bought once the first release on CD but asked on this forum if the newly digital remastered offers a sound improvement, and the replies were yes as i recall, so it's still on my wish list ;D
I like this thread
I am a big fan of schubert but my tastes are getting different from the "standards". I have not heard lupu's sonatas yet but i am not a fond lover of his impromtus neither his the Fantaisie duet with Perahia. I prefer Richter and even Eschenbach/Frantz...
Now that i mentioned Richter (i won't make the same mistake that i did before when i said that his sonatas performed live on the Brilliant set are too slow! ) i feel that the Regis discs are not Richter at his best, i heard once 2 sonatas from the late 1950s or early 1960s and they were much better...
I am surprised that the set by Alain Planes was not mentioned here, i am really curious about it. I only have one disc by him, the sonata D894 sonate-fantaisie and the moments musicaux, superb performance.
Now comes my favorite symphony No 9. I still have not found a definitive version. After Szell, Bohm, Wand (kolner), Harnoncourt, Jochum and Solti (Wiener) confusion is more than ever established. What i miss is the energy in the opening few minutes, Furtwangler is the one i prefer for that but the sound is... from the 1940s. What i retained from this thread are Bernstein/CGO, Krips/wiener, hope to find them at the library :)
Quote from: samtrb on February 07, 2008, 06:50:52 PM
I like this thread
Now comes my favorite symphony No 9. I still have not found a definitive version. After Szell, Bohm, Wand (kolner), Harnoncourt, Jochum and Solti (Wiener) confusion is more than ever established. What i miss is the energy in the opening few minutes, Furtwangler is the one i prefer for that but the sound is... from the 1940s. What i retained from this thread are Bernstein/CGO, Krips/wiener, hope to find them at the library :)
So I have two suggestions for you.
Leibowitz/RPO
Abbado/COE
Plenty of energy in both
Resurrecting an old topic.
A friend :-* sent me the links to Vaclav Neumann's Czech Philharmonic recordings of symphonies 3 and 8. These are from the mid sixties and were released on Supraphon. In short: both are stunners. Not so much as wowee pieces of conducting/playing, but as absolutely prefect examples of adequation betweeen a musical idiom and a perfectly attuned band of musicians (conductor included), recorded in sumptuously luminous, brilliant and reverberant sound.
Seldom has the 'slight' third symphony sound so vernal, fresh, exuberant and powerful. Everything in it bespeaks of affection and naturalness of utterance. Even the very fast second movement 'allegretto' springs along naturally (no Taser-like prodding from the conductor, à-la-Kleiber). Througout, I marvelled at the succulent, impertinent and cajoling playing of the winds (clarinet and flute especially). In the Unfinished, the sTRRRRRINgs rule the lot with some mighty assistance frrm the timpani and brass (those trumpets!). Although I still prefer the WP's achingly tender and beautiful sunset-drenched wind dominated version (Karl Böhm, DGG), this gives the work a wonderful 'manly' stature. Less domineering than the awesome Toscanini-NBC version, but no less imposing for that.
I have downloaded that Neumann 3rd too, and it does indeed make a rather good first impression, but definitely not a "stunning" one. And it wears pretty fast. It is well played, but there are also lapses of ensemble and some not-so-precise phrasing and some uncertain moments. The way the dotted figures in the first movement are played does not always naturally lead to the next bar. The last movement is too slow, or rather, since absolute tempi do not necessarily equate with musical tempi, but it is a little too earthbound and heavy-handed and lacking a little in offbeat impulses where necessary. The scherzo lacks a little bit (im)pulse, the trio is heavily undercharacterized compared to C.Kleiber's version.
I know it is always nice to discover "secret tips" and it feels good to find something which appears to contradict "mainstream standards", but this is still very far away overall from what C.Kleiber achieved.
Sorry I have to say this, you are using the word "idiom" and its derivative "idiomatic" a little too much, as your failure to understand Kleiber's choice of tempo and pacing in the second movement demonstrates. I don't think you really quite understand what is really "idiomatic" when it comes to this music, but that's not a big problem. Maybe this understanding will deepen with time. It is more the phrasing and slight shifting of rhythmic points of emphasis than anything else anyway.
And the "impertinent cajoling" of the winds isn't nearly as much so as in a number of other versions. I am not too happy with the recorded sound quality either. It does not do the string sound of the CP full justice, flattens it a little bit and underrepresents the solid core their sound has.
Overall, a very nice and solid version, but not really much more.
Well, we have different impressions, and it's all right. I don't understand why you say that this version (or is it my comment on it?) contradicts "mainstream standards", though. Can you elaborate?
My failure to understand C. Kleiber's choice of tempi in this particular work is a long standing one and it might never be remedied. We all have our blind spots 8). I still enjoy this Neumann immensely. I don't really mind not being aware of the technical shortcomings you mention.
That's a disappointingly uninsightful response, considering that a few months ago, both in PMs and "in public", we conversed about this particular topic and you stated that I had opened up some views for you into aspects of musical "idiom" and "idiomatic" performance and were eager to explore this territory further.
The "mainstream" comment meant that I have yet to read a review of a recording of this symphony which doesn't mention the Kleiber recording which really gets this piece "right" on so many levels that it is one of the few examples of a performance of anything that I would not hesitate to call "definitive", and a lot of other informed listeners think so, too. So it seems to be an integral part of any review of this piece to mention that recording, ususally as a negative comparison, apparently to demonstrate their "independent" views. We have a lot of posts in tis forum which are based on the assumption that citicizing whatever is perceived by many as outstanding automatically (no mattter if the criticism is actually based on deeper understanding) secures the review some kind of "expert status". That may be just my impression, of course.
You put " mainstream standards" in the plural, so I assumed you had another one to mention than Kleiber's, and was curious to know which.
Quote from: traverso on January 24, 2008, 11:02:38 PM
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7416/514n1746wnlss500dg7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
What excitement! What intensity! ;)
FL
Is this still in print?
I have their D887. Cost me a lot at Arkiv, but worth all the dollars. The disk coupling is LvB op. 95. If we have a fire I'll rescue this CD first.
Been thinking of getting a complete set of Schubert's sonatas. Already have some Richter, Volodos and Staier. Came across Alain Planes' complete Harmonia Mundi set. Does anyone have any opinion as to the quality of his playing? In general, I prefer HIP performances, but with Schubert, both Volodos and (especially) Richter are superb. Thanks.
Why don't you check out Kempff, Lupu and Brendel first?
Finally someone else mentioned Alain Planes on this forum ! I am also looking for his Schubert set. I have him in the D894 sonata and moments musicaux. Superb. beautiful tone, clear playing, singing, balanced, i would say "intelligent". The recording quality is also top notch.
I am not a big fan of Brendel neither Kempf. In everything they've recorded there's someone better but that's not the topic. As for Lupu... i can't give a solid opinion. I only have his impromptus and frankly, in the second and fourth i prefer Richter, and Horowitz. If you like Richter's Schubert, it might be hard to enjoy someone else.
I hope other members will talk more about Planes.
Thanks for the replies, much appreciated. Well, I've tried out samples at jpc over the weekend of Schubert's sonatas played by the aforementioned pianists and more (Endres, Vermeulen, Shelley, Schnabel etc). The Endres set has been highly praised and is actually very good, but Plaines' Schubert actually does more for me. Firstly, the acoustic is very dry, making his piano sound more like a fortepiano than a modern one. Although many others would consider this a detriment, I like it very much. Secondly, the playing is classical and poised, eschewing romance in favour of structure, without sacrificing the essence of th music in any way. I looked through reviews from BBC Music, Classics Today and Gramophone. Almost all of them were critical of both the sonics and the playing, and considered his set far inferior to the more established names. They did praise his Debussy very highly though.
Generally speaking, I've found that I very often disagree with reviews from the abovementioned sources. Fanfare offers a less conventional view, but I'm not a member and hence couldn't read their reviews of Plaines' Schubert. From what I've heard of it, he certainly has a lot to offer. I did find some very positive reviews from one Don Satz, who considered his Schubert very enjoyable. I've always enjoyed reading Don's reviews (even when I disagree with them) because he offers a very independent and prejudice-free view. Big names, small names, unknowns, it's all the same, and it's interpretation that matters. If you are a Bach fan, you must check out his reviews at the Bach cantatas website. I've found some real gems from them eg Paolo Beschi's Cello Suites, Elizabeth Blumenstock's violin sonatas etc.
But so far for me, the standard on piano for Schubert has to be Richter, who is just amazing. On fortepiano, it would have to be Andreas Staier, who imbues his Schubert with both emotion and virtuosity. But Alain Planes' set is a definite tempter...
Hi, James, I have the Planes' set (8 CDs, Harmonia Mundi) and I agree with your insights, especially about its sound.
It's a rewarding set, but some features must be remarked. IMO Planes is more an intellectual performer than a "sentimental" one. His performances are not especially boundless or in the emotional side. His Schubert is rather French, Cartesian, rational, if that is possible in Schubert...
But if you are a HIP fan, you probably should consider some sets on period instruments: Bilson (on Hungaroton), Jan Vermeulen (ongoing set on Etcetera) and Paul Badura-Skoda (Arcana). I have the last two and both are fine.
Below you will find some examples (same movement in all cases) from the first mov. (Moderato) of the Sonata N°16 op. 42 D. 845, played by Badura-Skoda (fortepiano Conrad Graf, Vienna, ca. 1825), Planes (piano Steinway) and Vermeulen (fortepiano Nannette Streicher, 1826).
Paul Badura-Skoda (CD 5):
http://www.goear.com/listen/3b440f7/-
Alain Planes (CD 3):
http://www.goear.com/listen/07b7ec3/-
Jan Vermeulen (vol. 3, CD1):
http://www.goear.com/listen/21e0402/-
I was forgetting the same piece by the great Nodame (piano Yamaha):
http://www.youtube.com/v/BZCPXIJFx0I
;D
Quote from: james66 on May 17, 2009, 06:52:43 PM
On fortepiano, it would have to be Andreas Staier, who imbues his Schubert with both emotion and virtuosity.
Agreed. His new D. 845 is just one amazing-sounding recording, on less boomy speakers I mean. I hope
he will proceed to record more Schubert from HM, even though he's clearly not into the "integral" business.
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on May 17, 2009, 09:32:44 PM
Hi, James, I have the Planes' set (8 CDs, Harmonia Mundi) and I agree with your insights, especially about its sound.
It's a rewarding set, but some features must be remarked. IMO Planes is more an intellectual performer than a "sentimental" one. His performances are not especially boundless or in the emotional side. His Schubert is rather French, Cartesian, rational, if that is possible in Schubert...
Below you will find some examples (same movement in all cases) from the first mov. (Moderato) of the Sonata N°16 op. 42 D. 845, played by Badura-Skoda (fortepiano Conrad Graf, Vienna, ca. 1825), Planes (piano Steinway) and Vermeulen (fortepiano Nannette Streicher, 1826).
Alain Planes (CD 3):
http://www.goear.com/listen/07b7ec3/-
Thanks for the sample. I agree with your assessment of Planes' Schubert.
Quote from: james66 on May 17, 2009, 06:52:43 PM
I did find some very positive reviews from one Don Satz, who considered his Schubert very enjoyable. I've always enjoyed reading Don's reviews (even when I disagree with them) because he offers a very independent and prejudice-free view. Big names, small names, unknowns, it's all the same, and it's interpretation that matters. If you are a Bach fan, you must check out his reviews at the Bach cantatas website. I've found some real gems from them eg Paolo Beschi's Cello Suites, Elizabeth Blumenstock's violin sonatas etc.
I'm sure Don will be pleased to hear that. http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9100.msg227691.html#msg227691 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9100.msg227691.html#msg227691)
Generally speaking, I am not a big fan of Schubert on the fortepiano. What I like about Planes is that his sound is somewhat in between the fortepiano and a modern grand that I usually hear. So it offers a good alternative sound and view.
Quote from: james66 on May 17, 2009, 06:52:43 PM
Generally speaking, I've found that I very often disagree with reviews from the abovementioned sources. Fanfare offers a less conventional view, but I'm not a member and hence couldn't read their reviews of Plaines' Schubert. From what I've heard of it, he certainly has a lot to offer. I did find some very positive reviews from one Don Satz, who considered his Schubert very enjoyable. I've always enjoyed reading Don's reviews (even when I disagree with them) because he offers a very independent and prejudice-free view. Big names, small names, unknowns, it's all the same, and it's interpretation that matters. If you are a Bach fan, you must check out his reviews at the Bach cantatas website. I've found some real gems from them eg Paolo Beschi's Cello Suites, Elizabeth Blumenstock's violin sonatas etc.
I thank james666 for his favorable words about my reviews and am gratified that he has found them helpful in discovering a few excellent recordings. Being a loner, I find it easy to be independent; not posessing prejudice in reviews is a much harder goal to achieve, and I'm sure I am not always successful.
Quote from: samtrb on May 15, 2009, 06:44:20 PM
Finally someone else mentioned Alain Planes on this forum ! I am also looking for his Schubert set. I have him in the D894 sonata and moments musicaux. Superb. beautiful tone, clear playing, singing, balanced, i would say "intelligent". The recording quality is also top notch.
I am not a big fan of Brendel neither Kempf. In everything they've recorded there's someone better but that's not the topic. As for Lupu... i can't give a solid opinion. I only have his impromptus and frankly, in the second and fourth i prefer Richter, and Horowitz. If you like Richter's Schubert, it might be hard to enjoy someone else.
I hope other members will talk more about Planes.
It's been done some. (No, that's
Dim Sum.)
http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,7753.msg233766.html#msg233766 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,7753.msg233766.html#msg233766)
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on May 17, 2009, 09:32:44 PM
Hi, James, I have the Planes' set (8 CDs, Harmonia Mundi) and I agree with your insights, especially about its sound.
It's a rewarding set, but some features must be remarked. IMO Planes is more an intellectual performer than a "sentimental" one. His performances are not especially boundless or in the emotional side. His Schubert is rather French, Cartesian, rational, if that is possible in Schubert...
But if you are a HIP fan, you probably should consider some sets on period instruments: Bilson (on Hungaroton), Jan Vermeulen (ongoing set on Etcetera) and Paul Badura-Skoda (Arcana). I have the last two and both are fine.
Below you will find some examples (same movement in all cases) from the first mov. (Moderato) of the Sonata N°16 op. 42 D. 845, played by Badura-Skoda (fortepiano Conrad Graf, Vienna, ca. 1825), Planes (piano Steinway) and Vermeulen (fortepiano Nannette Streicher, 1826).
Paul Badura-Skoda (CD 5):
http://www.goear.com/listen/3b440f7/-
Alain Planes (CD 3):
http://www.goear.com/listen/07b7ec3/-
Jan Vermeulen (vol. 3, CD1):
http://www.goear.com/listen/21e0402/-
Thanks for doing this -- you have opened up my ears to HIP Schubert -- I like it a lot!
I listened to the opening mvt of the D845 and liked it, though in my experience this way of recording a piano as if you're in the composer's head becomes rather tiring. About the reviews, I couldn't help but notice Planes gets consistently panned by one and the same reviewer on ClassicsToday, which is obviously irresponsible. It is clear Distler doesn't like what Planes is doing, and another reviewer should get a shot at this artist.
I'd like to add, that after the Planes D845 I listened to Kempff and Brendel (Philips) and I like the Brendel interp a lot better. Contrary to the cliche-view of Brendel this is a furiously passionate rendition.
Thanks for the great comments, everyone.
Mr Marchand, much thanks for the samples you provided. I've listenend to them numerous times and these are my conclusions (in relation to the first movement of 845 only). Badura-Skoda is good, if a bit on the fast side. His Graf sounds good, but not as pungent as Vermeulen's Streicher. Planes is also quite good (although slowish), and I concur fully with your assessment of him being much more intellectual than overtly emotional. The architecture is there but the spontaneity is very reserved. His Steinway sounds sharp and not overly lush. A very balanced and poised reading. The best of the three has to be Vermeulen. I like everything here, the sound of his Streicher, the overall acoustic and the playing. Very, very enjoyable interpretation. Mr Marchand, my sincere gratitude for the clips have assisted me greatly in deciding my preferences. I will be looking for a HIP set or separate fortepiano recordings; the fortepiano just sounds so right for Schubert.
Traverso, would you consider Staier's new 845 (on Aeon, I believe) better than his Teldec recording which also featured the 946 Klavierstucke? The new recording has some kind of modern Kontra-sonate, which I freely admit I know almost nothing about.
Don (Bulldog), I agree that it is difficult being free of prejudice when reviewing music, or for that matter, anything, but at least you acknowledge that. Quite a few critics from the big magazines seem to offer absolute views and actually seem to have very obvious preferences and prejudices. I must admit I have laughed out loud at times when reading their reviews, the bias is so apparent. And these critics are usually, if not always, trained musicians. So, please keep on writing more reviews and comparative analysis of recordings. I'm sure they've helped a lot of other people besides me.
Herman, yep, it definitely seems like Jed Distler dislikes Plaines' Schubert. But the guy is a hoot, if he likes something, 10/10 ratings are given out like candy to babies, if not, 1/10, 1/10, 3/10 are the norm. He doesn't seem to have a balance, and I remain unconvinced of much of his reasoning. I find myself at odds with his views more often than not.
Quote from: james66 on May 19, 2009, 11:50:30 PM
Traverso, would you consider Staier's new 845 (on Aeon, I believe) better than his Teldec recording which also featured the 946 Klavierstucke? The new recording has some kind of modern Kontra-sonate, which I freely admit I know almost nothing about.
Sorry I was writing from memory and had confused the D. 845 (in a) with the D. 894 (in G), which he had recently recorded in an excellent-sounding harmonia mundi disc with the D. 935 Impromptus. I have not heard the Aeon recording, which may even not have been made on a fortepiano. (Ditto his MdG recording of Schumann quintet with the new Leipzig Qt.) I have the Teldec D. 845 recording and am quite happy with it.
edit. Me wrong again: I just listened to some quick samples on Amazon from the Aeon Schubert/Pauset recording and have no doubt that both pieces were recorded on a fortepiano. It will take some closer comparison to decide if Staier's two interpretations of the a minor sonata vary significantly from each other.
edit1: (link to Distler review removed) :P
Staier's 894 is probably quite sublime, and I must look into acquiring that disc. In Schubert, he is amazing. It was his Winterreise with Pregardian that turned me on to Schubert's lieder. An amazing recording, with the fortepiano offering some beautifully stark accompaniment. Another winner is his Die Schone Mullerin, also with Pregardian.
The best 894 I've heard so far is by Volodos on piano. I admit I was a bit hesistant in purchasing it because Volodos has a reputation as an unbridled virtuoso, and this sonata is probably Schubert's most introverted. But the sonics are superb and interpretation is simply outstanding. A mesmerising 894 by any standard.
I too tried the Amazon samples, but don't quite like the Kontra-Sonate. I'd say that his earlier Teldec recording seems the better option. In fact, after such a great 845, it would have made more sense if Staier had recorded 784, 850 or the Wanderer Fantasie. Does anyone know where I can get Staier's recording of Schubert's last three sonatas? I've been looking for ages but it seems to be OOP.
Quote from: james66 on May 20, 2009, 07:54:28 PM
Does anyone know where I can get Staier's recording of Schubert's last three sonatas? I've been looking for ages but it seems to be OOP.
D 958 and 959 are available on an Elatus (Warner) disc - D 960 is indeed OOP at the moment.
Edit. Have you heard the newish Schwannengesang (plus a couple of Lieder on Seidl texts) with Staier and Pregardien on Challenge Classical? Beautiful contributions from both performers (even if now Pregardien sounds more experienced than fresh), and the disc's recent vintage reflects Staier's change to a more fluid style with Schubert.
Edit1. For D 960 my recent acquaintance with a fortepiano recording by Nikolaus Lahusen turns out to be quite a pleasant surprise. Lahusen probably doesn't have quite the same level of virtuosity as Staier on the fp, but I've found his interpretation on a Graf fortepiano to be truly nuanced and moving. Of course Lahusen won't be recording a complete Schubert (he passed on in 2005), but I am very eager to try out his other Schubert disc with sonata D. 850 (in D) and 34 sentimental waltzes D. 779.
(http://www.mayflowermusic.com/releases/cover/13195.jpg)
Much thanks, Traverso. I checked Amazon and I can get it 958-959 through other vendors. A real pity about 960, but one can hope that Elatus will release that sonata coupled with some other Schubert in the future.
I must admit I haven't heard many recent recordings of Schubert's lieder. But if I come across anything by Staier and Pregardian, it will be snapped up without hesitation. There's a lot of Schubert lieder by Naxos, but they use modern instruments. I've only tried their Winterreise so far; quite a beautiful but very safe interpretation, and no real threat to Staier and Pregardian's superlative effort.
I will definitely check up on Nikolaus Lahusen. BTW, what are your impressions of 960 by Vermeulen and Bilson? I was very impressed with Vermeulen's first movement of 845 (samples courtesy of Mr Marchand). If they approach Staier's level in 960, I'd probably get them.
Quote from: Mandryka on May 18, 2009, 09:27:37 PM
Thanks for doing this -- you have opened up my ears to HIP Schubert -- I like it a lot!
Quote from: james66 on May 19, 2009, 11:50:30 PM
Mr Marchand, much thanks for the samples you provided. I've listenend to them numerous times and these are my conclusions (in relation to the first movement of 845 only). Badura-Skoda is good, if a bit on the fast side. His Graf sounds good, but not as pungent as Vermeulen's Streicher. Planes is also quite good (although slowish), and I concur fully with your assessment of him being much more intellectual than overtly emotional. The architecture is there but the spontaneity is very reserved. His Steinway sounds sharp and not overly lush. A very balanced and poised reading. The best of the three has to be Vermeulen. I like everything here, the sound of his Streicher, the overall acoustic and the playing. Very, very enjoyable interpretation. Mr Marchand, my sincere gratitude for the clips have assisted me greatly in deciding my preferences. I will be looking for a HIP set or separate fortepiano recordings; the fortepiano just sounds so right for Schubert.
My pleasure,
Mandryka and
James66.
BTW, James, just Antoine for my friends on the board. ;D
Some time ago, I found a fine synthesis of my own feelings about the relation fortepiano/ Schubert in the following words of the fortepianist Olga Tverskaya:
"My view is that the fortepiano is the only surviving witness of how Schubert's works actually sounded, and so it is the most reliable guide for my interpretations.
"By trusting the instrument entirely and never imposing upon it, I let it tell me which tempos and dynamics are most appropriate to the style of the piece I wish to play. With its enormous range of colours, its warm, singing, yet deep and powerful sound, the instrument itself gives vivid insight into the phrases, forms and contrasts as well as the atmospheres Schubert had in mind when composing. Because the instrument is so evocative, a strong sense of intimacy has grown up between me and the music Schubert wrote, to such an extent that I feel I am close to him, that he and I share feelings and thoughts with the listener."
I own and have enjoyed some other Schubert recordings on pianoforte:
Olga TverskayaSonata in A Major, D. 959
Moments Musicaux, op. 94, D. 780
Opus 111, DDD, 1995
Pianoforte Graf, c. 1820
Peter KatinDrei Klavierstücke, D. 946
Valses Nobles, D. 969
Moments Musicaux, D. 780
Athene, DDD, 1995
Clementi square piano of 1832
Jörg DemusSonata for piano D. 960
Sonata for piano D. 894
DHM, ADD
Fortepiano
Paolo GiacomettiSonata in A minor, D. 845
4 Impromptus, D. 935
Channel Classics, DDD, 1997
Pianoforte Salvatore Lagrassa 1815
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on May 21, 2009, 08:09:50 PM
Peter Katin
Drei Klavierstücke, D. 946
Valses Nobles, D. 969
Moments Musicaux, D. 780
Athene, DDD, 1995
Clementi square piano of 1832
Right I've been looking for a recommendation for a performance of D. 946 for ages -- looks like Katin mat be my first HIP Schubert record.
Quote from: Mandryka on May 22, 2009, 07:46:16 AM
Right I've been looking for a recommendation for a performance of D. 946 for ages -- looks like Katin mat be my first HIP Schubert record.
Lambert Orkis has recorded them on a fp - and, rather uniquely I think, also includes the draft version of the first Klavierstück, which is considerably longer than the final version.
(http://image.maniadb.com/images/album/163/163962_1_f.jpg)
Quote
Disc2 11. Klavierstück In E Flat Minor D946 No. 1 (Original Version) 12:24
Quote from: james66 on May 21, 2009, 06:50:25 PM
I will definitely check up on Nikolaus Lahusen. BTW, what are your impressions of 960 by Vermeulen and Bilson? I was very impressed with Vermeulen's first movement of 845 (samples courtesy of Mr Marchand). If they approach Staier's level in 960, I'd probably get them.
I never heard Bilson's Schubert (having read some rather unfavourable reviews from someone whose taste I trust) and need to listen to Vermeulen's D 960 again to provide any useful feedback. My biggest problem with the Vermeulen sets is the recorded sound - it is too upfront for me to obtain some kind of an aesthetic distance, which is sometimes advantageous when it comes to fortepianos. I will give his D. 960 another go before posting an impression.
Thanks, Antoine, for the suggested recordings. Most of them though seem unavailable on Amazon, which is a shame since I almost always favour Schubert on fortepiano nowadays. Would you consider Bilson's Schubert worth getting? I've heard that he could be more scholarly than spontaneous, and sometimes a bit pedantic. I have not heard enough of him to gauge.
There is one fortepianist of whom I knew nothing but whose Schubert has left me stunned: Thomas Gunther playing D845 and D959 on a Streicher in a Cybele recording. Everything, from the playing to the acoustics and instrument, is top-notch. He is at least at the level of that Schubertian par excellence, Andreas Staier, maybe even surpassing him, which is the highest praise I could afford Gunther.
Quote from: james66 on June 04, 2009, 10:00:01 PM
Thanks, Antoine, for the suggested recordings. Most of them though seem unavailable on Amazon, which is a shame since I almost always favour Schubert on fortepiano nowadays. Would you consider Bilson's Schubert worth getting? I've heard that he could be more scholarly than spontaneous, and sometimes a bit pedantic. I have not heard enough of him to gauge.
There is one fortepianist of whom I knew nothing but whose Schubert has left me stunned: Thomas Gunther playing D845 and D959 on a Streicher in a Cybele recording. Everything, from the playing to the acoustics and instrument, is top-notch. He is at least at the level of that Schubertian par excellence, Andreas Staier, maybe even surpassing him, which is the highest praise I could afford Gunther.
Hi,
James. Actually it is hard to find those few discs devoted to the composers of the Romantic period. Those discs on period instruments are quickly discontinued and sometimes it is a real torture to get one copy (for example: I really want the Chopin's
Nocturnes recorded by Luc Devos)
My opinion about Bilson's Schubert is rather unfavorable, too. His playing seems dry and unimaginative and IMO there are better options in this repertoire.
BTW, I don't know if you are interested in Schubert's lieders, but in the last weeks I have enjoyed a recording of the
Winterreise on Musica Omnia.
Max van Egmond (baritone) and Penelope Crawford (fortepiano Conrad Graf, Vienna 1835) are just superb... and the sound of that fortepiano...
You can check some excerpt here:
http://www.musicaomnia.org/romantics.asp
Quote from: james66 on June 04, 2009, 10:00:01 PM
There is one fortepianist of whom I knew nothing but whose Schubert has left me stunned: Thomas Gunther playing D845 and D959 on a Streicher in a Cybele recording. Everything, from the playing to the acoustics and instrument, is top-notch. He is at least at the level of that Schubertian par excellence, Andreas Staier, maybe even surpassing him, which is the highest praise I could afford Gunther.
I have the disc and like his playing a lot, too. Certainly an eloquent, winsome interpretation with flying sparks of virtuosity but I have not detected the same level of depths or emotional complexity that one hears in Staier's Schubert. His Streicher fp certainly sounds prettier than the one used by Jan Vermeulen does though. Can't say which instrument was more appropriately restored, given all (except the Gunter of course) Stein-Streicher fp's I have heard all have a brashly vibrant, rather than graceful, sound.
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on June 05, 2009, 07:36:23 PM
I really want the Chopin's Nocturnes recorded by Luc Devos
Funny I ditched these years ago. I suspect I might like them better today if I give them another listen. Michele Boegner's recording on a Pleyel (Calliope) has been satisfying to me for now, however.
Quote from: traverso on June 05, 2009, 09:49:39 PM
Funny I ditched these years ago.
I suppose the world is not a fair place. :'(
Quote from: traverso on June 05, 2009, 09:49:39 PM
I suspect I might like them better today if I give them another listen.
Although the disappointment is always a possibility, I have listened to some excerpts and I feel a kind of natural affinity with Devos' work (I own other recordings by him). Unfortunately, his
Nocturnes are totally OOP, impossible to find even used.
Sony seems to be coming out with boxes of older recordings, lately.
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0886975354924.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Franz-Schubert-S%E4mtliche-Klavierwerke-zu-vier-H%E4nden/hnum/5907336)
Piano Music-Four Hands
Yaara Tal und Andreas Groethuysen
7 Discs
Click on image to go to the JPC page.
Added to wishlist.
Quote from: opus106 on June 23, 2009, 12:31:36 PM
Sony seems to be coming out with boxes of older recordings, lately.
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0886975354924.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Franz-Schubert-S%E4mtliche-Klavierwerke-zu-vier-H%E4nden/hnum/5907336)
Piano Music-Four Hands
Yaara Tal und Andreas Groethuysen
7 Discs
Click on image to go to the JPC page.
Added to wishlist.
Yes I ordered that one a few days ago, should be in any time.
Yesterday, I posted in the 'listening thread' on a Schubert 2-CD set from BRO w/
Lambert Orkis on two different fortepianos - really enjoy him and own a number of recordings, including the
Beethoven Cello Sonatas on both modern & period instruments.
Now, I listened to this set in my office on a small boombox - not bad, but this morning on my den speakers, the first disc is quite good (would be a keeper as an alternate to my Uchida recordings of these works), but the second disc had a more 'muffled' tone; the recordings were done in different locations, the latter in a church located in Bethesda, Maryland - I suspect the main culprit is the engineering; the fortepiano was a reproduction but done by a respectable couple, i.e. the Wolfs and tuned by her - :-\
Thus, to reactivate this thread and discuss
Schubert's solo piano works - what's new (or old) that can be recommended for the works mentioned below, either on a fortepiano and/or modern instrument to complement my Uchida performances? :D
QuoteSchubert, Franz - Impromptus, Klavierstucke, & Moments Musicaux w/ Lambet Orkis on two different fortepianos (fist disc, an 1826 Conrad Graf piano, assume restored; second disc, Thomas & Barbara Wolf reproduction after Nannette Streicher) - just starting to listen to this 2-CD set on Virgin ($10 from BRO) - my current 'in house' comparison is the Uchida set which includes these works plus the sonatas; so curious if anyone may know this Orkis set? :D
(http://i.eimg.com.tw/d/artist/56/26756.300.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan on January 13, 2010, 07:24:42 AM
Yesterday, I posted in the 'listening thread' on a Schubert 2-CD set from BRO w/ Lambert Orkis on two different fortepianos - really enjoy him and own a number of recordings, including the Beethoven Cello Sonatas on both modern & period instruments.
Now, I listened to this set in my office on a small boombox - not bad, but this morning on my den speakers, the first disc is quite good (would be a keeper as an alternate to my Uchida recordings of these works), but the second disc had a more 'muffled' tone; the recordings were done in different locations, the latter in a church located in Bethesda, Maryland - I suspect the main culprit is the engineering; the fortepiano was a reproduction but done by a respectable couple, i.e. the Wolfs and tuned by her - :-\
Thus, to reactivate this thread and discuss Schubert's solo piano works - what's new (or old) that can be recommended for the works mentioned below, either on a fortepiano and/or modern instrument to complement my Uchida performances? :D
Alfred Brendel on Philips. But hey, what do I know!
(All his Schubert recordings (for Philips) are available as an inexpensive 7-CD box (http://www.amazon.de/Brendel-spielt-Schubert-Alfred/dp/B001BNQJDC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1263400978&sr=8-1) in Germany.)
I have come across the Orkis discs before while rummaging through the Veritas catalogue about a year ago, but passed it over -- that was before I became maniacally addicted to the Impromptus. Now that you have reminded me about it (thanks!), it goes up on the wish-list.
Quote from: Opus106 on January 13, 2010, 07:49:11 AM
Alfred Brendel on Philips. But hey, what do I know!
I have come across the Orkis discs before while rummaging through the Veritas catalogue about a year ago, but passed it over -- that was before I became maniacally addicted to the Impromptus. Now that you have reminded me about it (thanks!), it goes up on the wish-list.
Hello
Opus - oh yes,
Brendel seens to be a favorite in this category, but there are so many others - guess that I was looking for 'something' different from my Uchida box, i.e. 'period instrument' interpretations? :-\
The
Orkis Beethoven recordings I mentioned previously are just outstanding, but not sure that I could recommend the Schubert set of his because of the second disc - I mean, not really that bad but the sound quality could be better (as it is on the first disc); however, I bought the set from BRO for just $10! Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan on January 13, 2010, 10:34:52 AM
Hello Opus - oh yes, Brendel seens to be a favorite in this category, but there are so many others - guess that I was looking for 'something' different from my Uchida box, i.e. 'period instrument' interpretations? :-\
Staier, then? He's recorded D. 935 for HM, and I remember coming across some favourable views, possibly in this forum.
QuoteThe Orkis Beethoven recordings I mentioned previously are just outstanding, but not sure that I could recommend the Schubert set of his because of the second disc - I mean, not really that bad but the sound quality could be better (as it is on the first disc); however, I bought the set from BRO for just $10! Dave :)
Yes, those Veritas two-fers are usually good value for money, but thanks for the warning. :)
Only have a second, Dave, more later. But for a downright nice fortepiano interpretation, you might look into Jan Vermuelen. Very nice playing indeed. He has 2 cycles, I have the earlier one on Vanguard, but there is a new one being slowly released (maybe volume 5 now) that Que has spoken very highly of. I have the Orkis, BTW, and like the playing a lot. I agree, the 2 disks don't have the same sonics at all, but disk 2 isn't a total disaster, it just isn't up to the standards of disk 1, yes?
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on January 13, 2010, 11:06:35 AM
Only have a second, Dave, more later. But for a downright nice fortepiano interpretation, you might look into Jan Vermuelen. Very nice playing indeed. He has 2 cycles, I have the earlier one on Vanguard, but there is a new one being slowly released (maybe volume 5 now) that Que has spoken very highly of. I have the Orkis, BTW, and like the playing a lot. I agree, the 2 disks don't have the same sonics at all, but disk 2 isn't a total disaster, it just isn't up to the standards of disk 1, yes?
Hi
Gurn - yep, I was really enjoying that first disc, then put on the second one and was disappointed; Orkis plays well and I'm sure that fortepiano reproduction was in good form - not sure if the church and/or engineering was the issue, but I just felt like I was in a back pew behind a pillar? :-\
But, I'm goin' to give the set another listen w/ the volume up a little - these 2-CD offerings are such good deals and typically quite good quality on that label. However, I'll keep my 'eyes & ears' open for other suggestions! Dave :D
Quote from: SonicMan on January 13, 2010, 07:24:42 AM
Thus, to reactivate this thread and discuss Schubert's solo piano works - what's new (or old) that can be recommended for the works mentioned below, either on a fortepiano and/or modern instrument to complement my Uchida performances? :D
I gotta go with Maria Joao Pires. I recommended her Impromptus to a few people and they loved them (as I do.)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31iJNuEot4L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Just got this wonderful new Schubert CD by Andreas Staier, uses a replica 1827 Graf fortepiano.
I hope I am not too biased but this is one of the very best Schubert performances I have heard including modern piano versions, surprisingly subtle and neuanced when called for while not lacking any forward momentum or dramatic contrast, please take a listen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B66hvNSfY0I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B66hvNSfY0I)
Anyone else have this yet?
Bunny this has your name on it........
Quote from: DarkAngel on February 13, 2010, 01:44:31 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31iJNuEot4L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Just got this wonderful new Schubert CD by Andreas Staier, uses a replica 1827 Graf fortepiano.
I hope I am not too biased but this is one of the very best Schubert performances I have heard including modern piano versions, surprisingly subtle and neuanced when called for while not lacking any forward momentum or dramatic contrast, please take a listen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B66hvNSfY0I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B66hvNSfY0I)
Anyone else have this yet?
Bunny this has your name on it........
I already have it on order, but it hasn't come yet...
For modern piano, Radu Lupu is probably my favorite with these pieces.
Quote from: Bunny on February 13, 2010, 04:17:43 PM
I already have it on order, but it hasn't come yet...
For modern piano, Radu Lupu is probably my favorite with these pieces.
We are on the same page, I am in pretty good shape with Radu Lupu Schubert works so far:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41%2B772IKn7L._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51SZSaFBqOL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Also I am very impressed with historical Schnabel/Emi for Schubert Impromptus, the sound quality is very good and price is super low......
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21BVIcbwIuL._SL500_AA182_.jpg)
Quote from: Bunny on February 13, 2010, 04:17:43 PM
I already have it on order, but it hasn't come yet...
For modern piano, Radu Lupu is probably my favorite with these pieces.
Although I prefer Richter's Schubert, I have grown to appreciate Lupu's work with a variety of composers works. Especially Beethoven and Brahms.
Quote from: DarkAngel on February 13, 2010, 04:48:18 PM
Also I am very impressed with historical Schnabel/Emi for Schubert Impromptus, the sound quality is very good and price is super low......
I haven't listened to Schnabel in so many years! He was great. period.
Quote from: George on February 13, 2010, 05:02:28 PM
Although I prefer Richter's Schubert, I have grown to appreciate Lupu's work with a variety of composers works. Especially Beethoven and Brahms.
I think Lupu's Schubert is his strong point.
Btw, thinking of the Staier Schubert disc reminds me that I also have the Impromptus done by Lambert Orkis on fortepiano. It will interesting to compare this to the Staier recording. Orkis is a venerable pianist, both on modern piano and fortepiano but I think Staier will have the edge.
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/5e/5f/d30c6230a8a05afe56f8f010.L.jpg)
Quote from: Bunny on February 13, 2010, 05:12:03 PM
I haven't listened to Schnabel in so many years! He was great. period.
Amen.
Quote
I think Lupu's Schubert is his strong point.
I've only heard his Impromptus and while they were good, they didn't stand out from the pack. Pires plays them the way I like them and she's blessed with great sound.
Quote from: George on February 13, 2010, 05:46:34 PM
Amen.
I've only heard his Impromptus and while they were good, they didn't stand out from the pack. Pires plays them the way I like them and she's blessed with great sound.
I have Pires' recording of the Beethoven violin sonatas (with Dumay) which is very, very good; but I have resisted the Schubert because it is molto caro and I'm not sure that it's quite what I'm looking for.
I'd love to find that Emmanuel Ax has finally recorded the impromptus, but I'm afraid that the only way you can hear him do any of them is as an encore during a concert. I heard him do the D.935/2 in A flat that just entranced the audience and the Wiener Philharmoniker one night. Not just polite bow tapping, he received applause and foot thumping approval. If you ever hear of a bootleg of that, please let me know.
Quote from: Bunny on February 13, 2010, 06:14:35 PM
I have Pires' recording of the Beethoven violin sonatas (with Dumay) which is very, very good; but I have resisted the Schubert because it is molto caro and I'm not sure that it's quite what I'm looking for.
I looked for a translation of this and all I found was "very dear." Can you say more?
QuoteI'd love to find that Emmanuel Ax has finally recorded the impromptus, but I'm afraid that the only way you can hear him do any of them is as an encore during a concert. I heard him do the D.935/2 in A flat that just entranced the audience and the Wiener Philharmoniker one night. Not just polite bow tapping, he received applause and foot thumping approval. If you ever hear of a bootleg of that, please let me know.
Will do.
Quote from: George on February 13, 2010, 06:17:22 PM
I looked for a translation of this and all I found was "very dear." Can you say more?
Will do.
Sorry for the Italian, but it would seem that I've been reading too much Lucia (E.F. Benson) lately.
"Dear" in England as in France and Italy (cher and caro) means expensive. Need I say more?
and Thanks.
Quote from: Bunny on February 13, 2010, 06:40:33 PM
Sorry for the Italian, but it would seem that I've been reading too much Lucia (E.F. Benson) lately.
"Dear" in England as in France and Italy (cher and caro) means expensive. Need I say more?
and Thanks.
Gotcha.
You have mail.
The Russians did the Impromptus well.
I know we don't normally think of Horowitz as a Schubertian, but this Impromptu seems pretty good to me:
http://www.youtube.com/v/L6_SbflSwAg
V.V. Sofronitsky -- I think he's at his greatest in Schubert
http://www.youtube.com/v/PL6gZ0vMIlQ
And Yudina is distinctive-- an aquired taste maybe
http://www.youtube.com/v/u0wxh0yKVQw
Schubert from Chille is nice too.
http://www.youtube.com/v/6IIF8ryBgV8
Quote from: M forever on September 09, 2008, 02:53:05 PM
That's a disappointingly uninsightful response, considering that a few months ago, both in PMs and "in public", we conversed about this particular topic and you stated that I had opened up some views for you into aspects of musical "idiom" and "idiomatic" performance and were eager to explore this territory further.
The "mainstream" comment meant that I have yet to read a review of a recording of this symphony which doesn't mention the Kleiber recording which really gets this piece "right" on so many levels that it is one of the few examples of a performance of anything that I would not hesitate to call "definitive", and a lot of other informed listeners think so, too. So it seems to be an integral part of any review of this piece to mention that recording, ususally as a negative comparison, apparently to demonstrate their "independent" views. We have a lot of posts in tis forum which are based on the assumption that citicizing whatever is perceived by many as outstanding automatically (no mattter if the criticism is actually based on deeper understanding) secures the review some kind of "expert status". That may be just my impression, of course.
This is one of M's typically snide and condescending replies that so characterized his time here. His assertions are also bullshit. Kleiber's Schubert Third is very controversial. Always has been. You can't get more mainstream than Gramophone and two of its reviewers think Kleiber's Schubert is far from idiomatic let alone
definitive. I didn't respond to this post when M was here because the mods asked me not to engage with M...at least not in the manner I had been ;D I could not have stayed as cool as Barak :D Anyway, here's the mainstream opinion:
On the evidence of this record Carlos Kleiber is nothing like so good a conductor of Schubert as he is of Beethoven. The Unfinished goes well enough, if you do not mind both movements being taken pretty swiftly; it certainly allows him to emphasize the dramatic aspect of parts of the first movement. But the lyrical side of the music suffers, especially the slow movement, and one gets the impression of a temperament too restless to be ideal in Schubert. Sir Georg Solti, also with the VPO and coupled with Schubert's Fifth on the Decca disc, is greatly to be preferred.
But the really surprising things from Kleiber happen in the Third Symphony. In his 1979 review RO puts them concisely; and as I entirely agree I shall merely quote him. "Most controversial of all is Kleiber's extraordinarily rapid reading of the Third Symphony's Allegretto and his up-grading of the Menuetlo vivace into a rip-roaring Scherzo". Quite—which is why I cannot regard him as a natural Schubertian. T. H.Now, having said that, I have to admit I love Kleiber's Third but not because I find it particularly idiomatic but rather because it
isn't...it's unusual and individual, like so many of that conductor's performances.
Sarge
Quote from: George on February 13, 2010, 05:02:28 PM
Although I prefer Richter's Schubert, I have grown to appreciate Lupu's work with a variety of composers works. Especially Beethoven and Brahms.
Placed a small order this morning for
late Schubert sonatas which may get your approval:
Unfortunately as Bunny would say these were a bit
molto caro....
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51XPN0CZ56L._SL160_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51pnMFUfG3L._SL160_.jpg)
Quote from: DarkAngel on February 14, 2010, 05:54:03 AM
Placed a small order this morning for late Schubert sonatas which may get your approval:
Unfortunately as Bunny would say these were a bit molto caro....
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51XPN0CZ56L._SL160_.jpg)
Really? That's a shame. That Regis CD was budget priced for as long as I can remember. Anyway, it's a great CD. If you like what you hear, I suggest getting this one next:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/313bN2Yg3DL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
It's got the best D894, 575 & 840 I have ever heard. Link to amazon sellers (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/313bN2Yg3DL._SL500_AA240_.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.amazon.com/Richter-Master-Vol-Schubert-Sonatas/dp/B000PY302Q&usg=__sTlyTTOkr16Mqr2H4mHFfvwCgHA=&h=240&w=240&sz=11&hl=en&start=12&sig2=V4Vq2nfrKXJ3Jl735BOn1g&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=l-uW3a7Kof8PAM:&tbnh=110&tbnw=110&prev=/images%3Fq%3DRichter%2BSchubert%2BDecca%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1&ei=Qxt4S9CAM9SPtgeszKT1CQ)
And if you want to go from there, these are the best Richter Schubert sonata recordings that I have found (I recently reviewed all of the available Richter Schubert Sonata recordings (this was prior to the Hungary box set.))
D 960 Prague - 1972 - Praga
D 958 Salzburg - 1972 - Regis
D 894 London - 1989 - Philips/Decca (Philips has slightly better sound)
D 850 Prague - 1956 - Praga (better sound than Music and Arts)
D 845 Moscow - 1957 - Living Stage (better sound than Urania)
D 840 Salzburg - 1979 - Philips/Decca (Philips has slightly better sound)
D 784 Tokyo - 1979 - Regis
D 664 Paris - 1963 - EMI
D 625 Munich - 1978 - Victor/Japan
D 575 Florence - 1966 - Philips/Decca (Philips has slightly better sound)
D 566 Moscow - 1978 - Brilliant Classics
More details can be found in this thread. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3196.msg264973.html#msg264973) I start with D 960 and work backwards chronologically.
I recently ordered -as soon as I could find it- this promising and elusive 13-CD Brilliant Classics set, licensed by Denon. I have high hopes on Michel Dalberto.
An informative Amazon five-stars review:
For Schubert Piano Music Completists--A Treasure Chest Overflowing with First-Rate Performances, July 28, 2009
By Dace Gisclard (Houston, TX) -
About four years ago, BRILLIANT announced its re-release of Michel Dalberto's distinguished Schubert series (recorded for DENON in 1989 to 1995). However, it wasn't offered on AMAZON (it took nearly a year for my local CD store to get a copy for me), but at last, this well-rounded omnibus is showing up here.
This brimful box contains ALL the sonatas and unfinished sonata movements, the Impromptus, Moments Musicaux, posthumous Klavierstucke, and Wanderer Fantasy, plus a selection of dances and shorter pieces--not ALL the piano music, but a large hatful! Discussing every performance is impractical, but suffice it to say that Dalberto is an acutely insightful Schubertian who alternates wit with pensiveness, virility with lyricism--worthy of mention in the same breath with Kempff, Brendel, and Lupu. He penetrates the depths of this music, projecting an awareness of the presence of cosmic secrets just out of reach beyond the veil imposed by mortal faculties--an indispensable trait of great Schubert playing. His accents and rhythm are strong (yet not brutal or unyielding), his rubato is spontaneous but not fussy, his tone, expressively nuanced, and his observation of detail, scrupulous. He does not present Schubert as a facile producer of "pretty tunes", but as a many-sided poet capable of both infectious joy and brooding melancholy. In the complete sonata movements, at least, Dalberto takes all the repeats, but not always in the incomplete ones (more about this later).
Some might prefer a brisker pace in some of the earlier sonatas (D664 or D568). Dalberto is not alone in emphasizing the gravitas in these works (i.e., Pollini), although this is NOT to say he consistently favors slow tempi. He projects Schubert's affability, but the disquiet and alienation in the later works are fully realized, and he sustains their immense structures convincingly. Agogic and dynamic stresses take their proper places not as individual details, but as articulating factors of musical sentences. Thus does a true Schubertian aid the listener in perceiving the underlying coherence of this composer's excursive paragraphs. In the first movement of the Sonata in G, Dalberto captures a feeling of other-worldliness, holding time in breathless suspension. No single gesture stands out as an event to be relished merely for its own sake. Rather, each is carefully weighted in rhythm and dynamics, with the object of sustaining Schubert's vast spans of musical space--not that Dalberto rushes through, heedlessly ignoring details. Rather, each is given its due, but only as a member of the "long line". It is not for nothing that parallels have been drawn between Schubert and Bruckner, and even Sibelius.
A FEW STATISTICS AND CAVEATS:
1.) Some may find the early DDD sound a bit bright. Reducing the treble solves this nicely.
2.) Modern scholarship groups certain "homeless" movements to make more or less "complete" sonatas. Dalberto plays them ALL, except for two early versions found in Henle (Schiff includes only a few). Dalberto also doesn't play the D-flat Sonata D567, but this is really just an earlier version of D568.
3.) I take exception to Dalberto's policy regarding incomplete movements. (These are: D279/346--IV; D571/604/570--I and IV; D613/612--I and III; D625/505--I and IV; D840--III and IV.) With one exception, it seems his guiding principle is to avoid playing a single note not composed by Schubert. It's not THAT but HOW he does this that is a bone of contention I'll pick later. At this point, perhaps a word about Paul Badura-Skoda's performing editions (Henle edition, Vol.III, 1976) might be helpful: In the 1970's, RCA issued his LP's of the sonatas, which included his own idiomatically Schubertian "conjectural completions" of all nine fragmentary movements. The AMAZON reviews of his re-recordings for ARCANA are not definite on this point, but the ARCANA recordings may also include these "completions" (I tried to insert a product link here to the complete set, but AMAZON wouldn't allow it--try searching for "Badura-Skoda Schubert Arcana"). Although the complete set is discontinued, copies of the individual volumes can still be found on AMAZON: (Schubert: Les Sonates pour le Pianoforte, 1; Schubert: Les Sonates pour le Pianoforte, 2; Schubert: Les Sonates pour le Pianoforte, 3).
But back to Dalberto--sometimes, he stops dead where Schubert did. Whether one regards this as "fidelity" or "purism", it is a respected tradition. My most strenuous objections are to cases where Dalberto throws out the baby with the bath water, discarding several measures of authentic Schubert. This strikes me less like "fidelity" and more like "censorship." In the Allegretto D346 (possibly an incomplete finale for D279) Dalberto halts at measure 115. Presumably, this is because it is the last tonic cadence before the "completion" begins, but he thereby jettisons 16 measures of genuine Schubert!
Dalberto's oddest excision is in the Menuetto of D840, the "Reliquie." Following Schubert's sketch, Badura-Skoda's elegant transition to the Trio starts in the key of A, then passes, in a Neapolitan relationship, to A-flat, paving the way in a clever and very Schubertian way to G-sharp minor (the enharmonic parallel minor of A-flat) for the Trio. Dalberto, however, is content to cut the Gordian knot, and jumps from an E-major chord to G-sharp minor for the Trio! Whether or not one regards this as stylistically appropriate, the sketch makes it plain that Schubert intended to continue in A. To me, the effect is unstylistic and disjunct, made worse by the fact that the Trio begins in unharmonized bare octaves. Further, the six measures of Schubert's authentic right-hand part are lost. Dalberto ends the movement on the same E major chord from which he jumped earlier. Puzzlingly, he DOES play Badura-Skoda's edition of the finale of D625/505 complete. Presumably, this is because despite a 70-measure lacuna in the left hand part of the recapitulation (which can be deduced easily from the corresponding passage in the exposition), the bar-to-bar structure is complete.
4.) As pleased as I am with Dalberto's set, he'd surely be the first to admit that no one artist can have the last word on so much music! There are certain other recordings I would not want to be without:
a.) Paolo Bordoni's disarmingly lovely complete waltzes (Schubert: Complete Waltzes - Paolo Bordoni) are an inexpensive "must-have". Dalberto does not play D770 and D365 complete, and I find his rubato in these dances a little eccentric. He duplicates only a third of Bordoni's CD's, so Bordoni's set is worth snapping up for his beguiling way with these small precious jewels.
b.) In the Impromptu in G-flat, I find Dalberto too quick, inflexible, and dryly pedaled--one of his vanishingly few miscalculations. An inexpensive alternative is Radu Lupu's CD of the Impromptus (Schubert: Impromptus D 899 & D 935 / Radu Lupu). His playing is enchanting, especially in the G-flat major piece, and the sound is natural and sweet.
Despite my caveats, hearty thanks to BRILLIANT for reissuing this superb series. However one may feel about this or that editorial point, it would be a shame to bypass so much top-notch Schubert playing. At present, there's no better way to collect so many first-rate performances of Schubert's piano music for so little cash. This is an excellent buy, which could form the cornerstone of a collection of Schubert piano music--highly recommended.
:)
Quote from: George on February 14, 2010, 07:02:02 AM
Really? That's a shame. That Regis CD was budget priced for as long as I can remember. Anyway, it's a great CD. If you like what you hear, I suggest getting this one next:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/313bN2Yg3DL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
It's got the best D894, 575 & 840 I have ever heard. Link to amazon sellers (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/313bN2Yg3DL._SL500_AA240_.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.amazon.com/Richter-Master-Vol-Schubert-Sonatas/dp/B000PY302Q&usg=__sTlyTTOkr16Mqr2H4mHFfvwCgHA=&h=240&w=240&sz=11&hl=en&start=12&sig2=V4Vq2nfrKXJ3Jl735BOn1g&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=l-uW3a7Kof8PAM:&tbnh=110&tbnw=110&prev=/images%3Fq%3DRichter%2BSchubert%2BDecca%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1&ei=Qxt4S9CAM9SPtgeszKT1CQ)
And if you want to go from there, these are the best Richter Schubert sonata recordings that I have found (I recently reviewed all of the available Richter Schubert Sonata recordings (this was prior to the Hungary box set.))
D 960 Prague - 1972 - Praga
D 958 Salzburg - 1972 - Regis
D 894 London - 1989 - Philips/Decca (Philips has slightly better sound)
D 850 Prague - 1956 - Praga (better sound than Music and Arts)
D 845 Moscow - 1957 - Living Stage (better sound than Urania)
D 840 Salzburg - 1979 - Philips/Decca (Philips has slightly better sound)
D 784 Tokyo - 1979 - Regis
D 664 Paris - 1963 - EMI
D 625 Munich - 1978 - Victor/Japan
D 575 Florence - 1966 - Philips/Decca (Philips has slightly better sound)
D 566 Moscow - 1978 - Brilliant Classics
More details can be found in this thread. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3196.msg264973.html#msg264973) I start with D 960 and work backwards chronologically.
DarkAngel,
Those DG Richter discs have been available at YourMusic.com for a bit. I think I also picked up the Perahia Schubert there as well, but that was years and years ago. While I am a fan of the 2 earlier sonatas, the D.960 was a little too delicate for my taste. Instead, if you can look for Leif Ove Andsnes's EMI recording of the Late Sonatas which were previously released in single recordings of the sonatas coupled with lieder sung by Ian Bostridge. Andsnes D.960 is excellent and very close in feeling to Wilhelm Kempff's reading.
Quote from: Bunny on February 14, 2010, 07:49:08 AM
Instead, if you can look for Leif Ove Andsnes's EMI recording of the Late Sonatas which were previously released in single recordings of the sonatas coupled with lieder sung by Ian Bostridge. Andsnes D.960 is excellent and very close in feeling to Wilhelm Kempff's reading.
I follow
Andsnes very closely and already picked up that 2CD Schubert set you mention some time ago, nice value and I enjoy his style very much
Also regarding
George's Richter obsession and recommendations........
I find it is often much cheaper when buying Brilliant and Regis label to order from UK (Presto or MDT) so another follow up order has been placed:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/313bN2Yg3DL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510EK0Y2NEL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Quote from: DarkAngel on February 14, 2010, 08:22:40 AM
I follow Andsnes very closely and already picked up that 2CD Schubert set you mention some time ago, nice value and I enjoy his style very much
Also regarding George's Richter obsession and recommendations........
I find it is often much cheaper when buying Brilliant and Regis label to order from UK (Presto or MDT) so another follow up order has been placed:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/313bN2Yg3DL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510EK0Y2NEL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
A perfect opportunity to also pick up the Koopman Messiah. ;)
Quote from: Bunny on February 14, 2010, 03:03:36 PM
A perfect opportunity to also pick up the Koopman Messiah. ;)
Ha ha.........you know me too well, that also made its way into the buy basket
Quote from: DarkAngel on February 14, 2010, 08:22:40 AM
Also regarding George's Richter obsession......
I don't know what you are talking about, sir. ;D
Here's another PI performance of the Impromptus and the Moment musicaux (http://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Impromptus-Moments-musicaux-Tan/dp/B00008Y17B/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1266932942&sr=1-12). Melvyn Tan plays. Has anyone had a listen?
Quote from: Opus106 on February 23, 2010, 04:58:20 AM
Here's another PI performance of the Impromptus and the Moment musicaux (http://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Impromptus-Moments-musicaux-Tan/dp/B00008Y17B/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1266932942&sr=1-12). Melvyn Tan plays. Has anyone had a listen?
The samples aren't working so well for me. :-\
Quote from: Opus106 on February 23, 2010, 04:58:20 AM
Here's another PI performance of the Impromptus and the Moment musicaux (http://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Impromptus-Moments-musicaux-Tan/dp/B00008Y17B/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1266932942&sr=1-12). Melvyn Tan plays. Has anyone had a listen?
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w183/front/0/0794881911226.jpg)
Best period instrument I have heard is the expensive new Andreas Staier using replica Graf fortepiano......but only small selection of impromptus, samples here
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Franz-Schubert-Klaviersonate-D-894/hnum/2097384 (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Franz-Schubert-Klaviersonate-D-894/hnum/2097384):
Quote from: Opus106 on February 23, 2010, 04:58:20 AM
Here's another PI performance of the Impromptus and the Moment musicaux (http://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Impromptus-Moments-musicaux-Tan/dp/B00008Y17B/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1266932942&sr=1-12). Melvyn Tan plays. Has anyone had a listen?
Navneeth - I've decided to keep the
Lambert Orkis set despite my lesser enthusiasm for the second disc - but would be quite curious about he performance mentioned in your post - would like to hear from those who may own this set; I just don't trust listening to short snippets of recordings on websites - so, please any comments on Tan? Dave :D
Have gotten most of the way through Uchida's recordings of the Schubert Piano works and I must say I am not pleased. I mainly know these works through Pollini's recording of the final three sonatas, which I find spectacular (particularly 958, 959). The Uchida recordings left me unimpressed with Schubert's Art, until I reached these late sonatas and find the performances similarly unengaging. If I can manage to sell it I will replace it with Zacharias, or Kempff.
Note added, I just noticed that reviewers on Amazon report that the Zacharias set has the wrong content on several of the discs in the set (despite the fact the labels on the disc indicate they belong in the set). Score another one for EMI (Every Mistake Imaginable).
Quote from: Scarpia on April 02, 2010, 08:00:46 AM
Have gotten most of the way through Uchida's recordings of the Schubert Piano works and I must say I am not pleased. I mainly know these works through Pollini's recording of the final three sonatas, which I find spectacular (particularly 958, 959). The Uchida recordings left me unimpressed with Schubert's Art, until I reached these late sonatas and find the performances similarly unengaging. If I can manage to sell it I will replace it with Zacharias, or Kempff.
Note added, I just noticed that reviewers on Amazon report that the Zacharias set has the wrong content on several of the discs in the set (despite the fact the labels on the disc indicate they belong in the set). Score another one for EMI (Every Mistake Imaginable).
I don't know if he did a complete cycle of the Schubert sonatas, but I like this one by Brendel--they are live recordings, btw
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5136GSZ5W5L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Alexei Lubimov has new recording of Impromptus on Zig Zag. HIP I believe. Clips sound somewhat interesting.
http://www.zigzag-territoires.com/article.php3?id_article=2557&lang=fr
QuoteHave gotten most of the way through Uchida's recordings of the Schubert Piano works and I must say I am not pleased.
Neither was I. Some of the most uninspiring Schubert recordings I have listened to.
Quote.. If I can manage to sell it I will replace it with Zacharias, or Kempff
Kempff is, along with Sokolov, my favorite Schubert interpreter. Very lyrical, songful interpretations. Kempff does have technical limations, though, which show in more challenging movements. My favorite Kempff CD and perhaps my favorite Schubert piano CD is the DG two-fer containing the D 960, impromptus and moments musicaux.
Quote from: Drasko on April 02, 2010, 02:28:31 PM
Alexei Lubimov has new recording of Impromptus on Zig Zag. HIP I believe. Clips sound somewhat interesting.
http://www.zigzag-territoires.com/article.php3?id_article=2557&lang=fr
Thanks for the tip. I will have this disk, looks very nice. I like Lubimov in Beethoven and Mozart, let's see how his Schubert works. :)
8)
----------------
Listening to:
Andreas Staier - Dussek Op 65 Sonata in Ab Return to Paris 2nd mvmt - Molto adagio con anima ed espressivo
Quote from: kishnevi on April 02, 2010, 12:57:20 PM
I don't know if he did a complete cycle of the Schubert sonatas, but I like this one by Brendel--they are live recordings, btw
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5136GSZ5W5L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Do they include applause?
I have a studio cycle from Brendel on Philips, only available on German Eloquence, although there is a 2-fer of late sonatas on Philips.
Quote from: DarkAngel on February 14, 2010, 05:54:03 AM
Placed a small order this morning for late Schubert sonatas which may get your approval:
Unfortunately as Bunny would say these were a bit molto caro....
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51XPN0CZ56L._SL160_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51pnMFUfG3L._SL160_.jpg)
This is where Perahia really shines in Schubert.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61DPX00N17L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
and here you can have Lupu as well.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CP0JVF29L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: Scarpia on April 03, 2010, 06:07:02 AM
Do they include applause?
I have a studio cycle from Brendel on Philips, only available on German Eloquence, although there is a 2-fer of late sonatas on Philips.
There is certainly some venue noise and applause, but fairly limited.
The first two sonatas on the set were recorded at the Salzburg Festival 1984 by ORF; the rest were recorded in Frankfurt (1998), The Maltings (1999), and London (1997)--at least one of the last two by the BBC.
If you have the full cycle, then you probably don't need to hurry and grab this one, although apparently Brendel (to go by the very measured mini essay that is part of the liner notes) picked concert recordings that he considered superior to, or which gave alternative readings from, his studio releases.
Quote from: kishnevi on April 03, 2010, 07:18:57 PM
The first two sonatas on the set were recorded at the Salzburg Festival 1984 by ORF; the rest were recorded in Frankfurt (1998), The Maltings (1999), and London (1997)--at least one of the last two by the BBC.
That Maltings 1999 D 959 is excellent!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51I6hxx2sOL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
My latest adventure in Schubert sets is Georges Pludermacher's "complete" cycle recorded live in 2001 and 2002 for Transart Live. A couple things set this cycle apart from others. First is that Pludermacher plays a completed version of D840. Pludermacher himself completed the work based on existing sketches. Second, as with his Beethoven cycle, Pludermacher uses a modified Steinway with a fourth, "harmonic" pedal.
Overall, this is an enjoyable set. Pludermacher's approach is somewhat cold, analytical, and detached, making him somewhat like Kuerti, Brendel, or Zechlin. This impression is reinforced by the somewhat thin, metallic sounding piano. Pludermacher is most at home in some of the more challenging pieces. His D850, for instance, is riveting. He also, somewhat counterintuitively, sounds at home in some of the earlier sonatas. His D568 is among the more enjoyable I've heard, for instance. And if he misses the depths of, say, D960, he makes up for it in clarity, control, and superb pianism. The completed D840 is interesting. The two traditional movements are very well executed, but hearing two more is odd. The last two movements don't really seem to blend with the first two, the last movement especially. (That's the one that Pludermacher had to do more work on from what I gather.) It's an interesting exercise, but hardly essential.
The modified piano, which was better deployed in the LvB cycle, doesn't really seem to add much here. A few times throughout the cycle the additional sustain sounds intriguing, but again, it's hardly essential. This set does not match up to my big three in complete or near-complete cycles (Kempff, Endres, and Zacharias), but it offers unique insights and unique sounds and superb piano playing.
Can someone recommend a good D784? It's my favourite Schubert sonata.
I have Zhukov (I like it, despite the majestic style), Gilels (it's very good really, but a bit unspontaneous in the long first movement) Sofronitsky on Vista Vera (bad sound) and a couple of Brendels (Perfectly OK)
There are so many performances out there that I suspect I have missed something special.
Quote from: Mandryka on April 05, 2010, 07:49:58 AM
Can someone recommend a good D784? It's my favourite Schubert sonata.
Richter's Schubert D 784
Tokyo 7 February 1979 (Regis) – This recording is one of two live performances available by the pianist. The other, recorded in London, would come 7 weeks later. The Regis reissue that I have sounds excellent, with a full, yet slightly veiled piano tone that benefited from a bit of added treble on my stereo. Richter played the first movement in a dramatic style, with sharp dynamic contrasts, bold crescendos and mysteriously beautiful quiet passages. Audience noise was not an obstacle to my enjoyment. In fact, I barely noticed them. The central movement was played with a reflective tenderness that acted as a perfect contrast to the first movement's tension. The finale brought a sense of playfulness and joy to the performance. This is one of those memorable, extra special Schubert Richter performances.
Amazon Link (http://www.amazon.com/Schubert-Piano-Sonatas-664-784/dp/B00005B7O9/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1270487144&sr=1-1)
(http://pixhost.ws/avaxhome/c4/36/000e36c4_medium.jpeg)
I've read some good things about Michel Dalberto's Schubert over the past several years, so I figured I might as well sample some. Or rather all of it. (Well, all of the Denon recordings at any rate.) Mr Dalberto is one of those very few enterprising pianists who undertook to record all or nearly all of the piano music. The recordings in the set span fourteen discs in the most recent Brilliant Classics box, and were available previously on Denon, though the recordings are apparently owned by a company called Union Square Music, Ltd, so who knows, this may end up reissued again at some point. While I wouldn't be surprised if there are other pianists I do not know about who've also recorded this much of Schubert's piano music, the only pianist who readily comes to mind is Michael Endres, who has recorded almost everything, with only the Moments Musicaux (and perhaps a few smaller pieces) not committed to disc yet. But this is about Dalberto's set.
It's a fine set. Not that things start out perfectly. Disc one starts with less than perfect recordings of D845 and D157. The playing is technically very fine, the sound most appealing, if perhaps a bit bass-shy and upper register tilted but certainly dynamically wide ranging, but Dalberto plays around with tempi in some unusual ways. It's usually subtle, but it's undeniable. Anyway, after that it's largely smooth sailing. Throughout, his approach focuses more on a lyrical, singing approach rather than a more aggressive or spiritual or metaphysical approach. The major works up to the late sonatas are all quite good, with D850 and D894 standouts. Like Pludermacher, Dalberto plays a "complete" D840, and in many ways he is more successful, especially in the scherzo. The other major works (Impromptus, Moments Musicaux, Wandererfantasie) are all quite well done, and the various dances, miniatures, and collections of miniatures are also quite well done. Only in the last sonatas does Dalberto suffer in comparison to some Big Names, but I expected as much.
So, all things considered, I do rather enjoy this set and am glad I bought it. Of course, to my ears Michael Endres' nearly as extensive Schubert recordings are better yet. Very good stuff.
Mandryka wrote
QuoteCan someone recommend a good D784? It's my favourite Schubert sonata.
Apart from the Richter mentioned above - marmoreally dramatic, if that makes sense - I have somehow acquired the recording by Joao Pires (
I didn't buy it) - she plays it for plangent sonority and a sense of the gaps betwen the notes, almost hesitatingly, rather mysterious; the feeling of progression is rather lacking, or more exactly, it is a painful progression, as John Berryman suggested in his Dream Song 258* . Then there is the Solomon, which I haven't listened to in yonks but is self-evidently worth a listen.
*"...:that was like a man
dragged by his balls,singing aloud 'Oh yes'
while to his anguisht glance
the architecture differs"
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41mmONDz8sL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
I've listened to Andrea Lucchesini's most recent recording, of Schubert's Impromptus, a few times now, and must say it's quite something. As is always the case with this pianist, the piano tone is warm and beautiful, the playing lyrical and smooth. Lucchesini takes his time with these pieces, too. The C minor comes in at just over eleven minutes, the longest I've heard. Rather than sounding bloated or dull, it sounds dark and beautiful. The F minor and D935 B flat are taken slowly, though here the tempi aren't as comparatively slow. (Zimerman takes about as much time, for instance.) The smaller works are taken at a nice, zippier pace and demonstrate Lucchesini's effortlessly lyrical playing to good effect. Lucchesini's Schubert is definitely more about beauty than angst, making him more like Kempff or Endres than, say, Kovacevich, but that's quite alright. He still infuses enough darkness where needed. I kind of hope he records a bit more Schubert.
Sound is close, but otherwise SOTA.
I've got a set of all the Schubert keyboard sonatas by John Damgaard - mine is an older edition, but a re-issue came out in 2006.
His name does not come up much but I consider the playing to be very good. Have you heard his recordings? If so, what do you think?
Quote from: Franco on July 19, 2010, 07:27:00 AM
Have you heard his recordings? If so, what do you think?
The only thing I've heard by John Damgaard is his Ravel, which I found leaden and dull. Schubert, of course, is a totally different composer, and may be a better indication of what Damgaard is all about. May be an interesting thing to hear.
Earlier in this thread, the subject of period instrument versions came up. This had piqued my interest at the time, and I've been since searching for the Holy Grail of PI Schubert sets. So, I finally have it:
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/SchubertSkodaVol123cover.jpg) 3 disk set
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/SchubertSkodaVol4cover.jpg)(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/SchubertSkodaVol5cover.jpg)(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/SchubertSkodaVol6cover.jpg)(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/SchubertSkodaVol7cover.jpg)(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/SchubertSkodaVol8cover.jpg)(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/Gurn_Blanston/SchubertSkodaVol9cover.jpg)
Volume 1 is a 3 disk set, the rest are singles for a total of 9 disks. I haven't had a lot of Schubert full cycles before (only Uchida and a whole lot of single disks) so I don't know how some of them may be laid out, but this is the only one I've seen that has all of the 'manufactured' sonatas, that is, the ones made from sonata movements that are in the right key and tempo to have gone together, but the manuscripts don't indicate whether they actually did. In any case, it is the full total of 20 sonatas, so there is some music here that I haven't heard before.
Badura-Skoda is at his best here, if you have his Mozart and Beethoven you know what I mean. There are few players on the fortepiano who could best him, and here he uses a variety of pianos, including several different Grafs and reproductions. Some of them have Turkish pedals that produce some truly remarkable sounds. Altogether an interesting experience. :)
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on July 22, 2010, 06:05:39 AM
Earlier in this thread, the subject of period instrument versions came up. This had piqued my interest at the time, and I've been since searching for the Holy Grail of PI Schubert sets. So, I finally have it:
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/SchubertSkoda1/795738944_hEZe6-S.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/SchubertSkoda2/795738965_uiVoQ-S.jpg) (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/SchubertSkoda3/795738983_637fc-S.jpg)
Badura-Skoda is at his best here, if you have his Mozart and Beethoven you know what I mean. There are few players on the fortepiano who could best him, and here he uses a variety of pianos, including several different Grafs and reproductions. Some of them have Turkish pedals that produce some truly remarkable sounds. Altogether an interesting experience. :)
Hello
Gurn - those are some superb period recordings! I was able to pick up the three 3-disc sets (images above) earlier this year for $22 each, so about $7 per CD - purchased directly from Allegro Music (http://www.allegro-music.com/search_results.asp) (Arcana's USA distributor) - please w/ the price and the performances; posted a number of times in the 'listening thread' but received little (if any) response - Dave :D
Schubert by Richter, Fischer, Schnabel, Sofronitsky, Yudina, Haskil, Lupu, Michelangeli, Arrau, Gieseking, ...
But also the Schubert by Serkin, particularly in these magical recitals ...
(http://www.chaumiereonline.com/Image.axd?d=426789&w=500)(http://www.chaumiereonline.com/Image.axd?d=427517&w=500)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohbms7cmNSU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohbms7cmNSU)
Where'd you get that CD, ccar? I find nothing on amazon.
Quote from: ccar on July 22, 2010, 02:57:23 PM
Gieseking, ...
Gieseking's Schubert? Really? I've heard a few works, and it's neother prime Gieseking nor prime Schubert. Better can be heard, and by some living pianists to boot.
Quote from: SonicMan on July 22, 2010, 02:15:19 PM
Hello Gurn - those are some superb period recordings! I was able to pick up the three 3-disc sets (images above) earlier this year for $22 each, so about $7 per CD - purchased directly from Allegro Music (http://www.allegro-music.com/search_results.asp) (Arcana's USA distributor) - please w/ the price and the performances; posted a number of times in the 'listening thread' but received little (if any) response - Dave :D
Dave,
Well, I totally didn't see that! (I only go on WAYLT? about once a month... :-\ ) That is the reissue from 2002 (I think) which my first one is from that set, while the last 6 are from the original set of 1995. Pity that these are so hard to find, I think that many would enjoy them if they only had a chance for it. :)
8)
----------------
Now playing:
Brautigam, Ronald - Hob 17 02 ver2 (1789) Arietta in A con 12 variazioni
Brilliant Classics, are you listening?
Quote from: George on July 22, 2010, 03:02:51 PM
Where'd you get that CD, ccar? I find nothing on amazon.
These 2x2 CDs were issued more than 10 years ago by Sony France. They went rapidly OOP and are probably quite difficult to find nowadays.
SM2K 60388 - Haydn Sonata N.49; Mozart Rondo K.511; Beethoven Les Adieux; Schubert Sonata D.960 - 75th Annivers Concert at Carnegie Hall
SM2K 60033 - Schubert - Sonata D.959; Impromptus D.935 (n.1,2,3,4); Sonata D.960
Quote from: Todd on July 22, 2010, 03:05:18 PM
Gieseking's Schubert? Really? I've heard a few works, and it's neother prime Gieseking nor prime Schubert. Better can be heard, and by some living pianists to boot.
Some "non prime" Schubert by the dead "nonprime" Gieseking ;D
Moments Musicaux D.780; 4 Impromptus D.899; 4 Impromptus D.935; Sonatas D.664, D.850, D894, ; 3 Klavierstucke D.946; Piano Trio N.1 D.898;
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61e%2BumOqErL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41RC05Q4E1L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2003/Oct03/Gieseking_family_archive.jpg) (http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Pic-NonVocal-BIG/Gieseking-K06%5BM&A%5D.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41171GP6G3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FN4D1Z26L._SL500_AA300_.jpg) (http://img3.m.tower.jp/aa/m/8025726222521.jpg?sr.dw=120&sr.dh=120)
Quote from: ccar on July 22, 2010, 04:11:53 PM
Some "non prime" Schubert by the dead "nonprime" Gieseking
Yes, but why is it good enough for you to include in a list? Gieseking just isn't anywhere near his best in this repertoire. Merely posting links to CD cover images isn't informative at all.
Incidentally, when I said non-prime Schubert before, I meant the performances. D894 is prime Schubert, just not when played by Gieseking.
For years I have been searching for the perfect recording of the impromptus.
Artur Schnabel's too nervous. Phillipe Cassard's too sombre. Maria Yudia's too violent and eccentric (though truth is that I suspect that, in time, I may learn to apprecite this CD more -- I certainly would be interested to know if anyone here likes it.)
Radu Lupu's record has some lovely bits in it, and it's fair to say that I have enjoyed it more recently than at any time in the past. But I still think it's too heavy, self conscious and anally retentive. Not free spirited enough. But it is certainly worth hearing.
Dezso Ranki and Vladimir Sofronitsky and Vladimir Horowitz are very good, but they only play a couple of them. Edwin Fischer and Alfred Brendel aren't bad but somehow I always felt that the music could be better.
No one I have heard plays Schubert better than Rachmaninov -- but there's only one impromptu on record as far as I know.
Claudio Arrau is outstanding -- sensitive performances and stunningly well recorded. For a long time I thought this was the best I could do -- though at the back of my mind I knew that these studio recordings, made late in his life, didn't have the same free spirit as his EMI Drei Klavierstueke (which, by the way, is my favourite Schubert recording of all time.)
And then I found it -- the perfect performance of Schubert Impromptus. This Cd, by Mieczislaw Horszowski, defies description really -- free joyful music making by an artist totally at ease with himself. I can't say any more than that. You have to hear it.
D935 only I'm afraid.
QuoteDezso Ranki and Vladimir Sofronitsky and Vladimir Horowitz are very good, but they only play a couple of them. Edwin Fischer and Alfred Brendel aren't bad but somehow I always felt that the music could be better.
Hello Mandryka,
I'll have to check out your recommendation. The only problem is (I guess) the Arbiter sound, which is often rather mediocre. I have a few questions.. Actually, my favorite is Kempff - do you know his recording? Can you please specify which Horowitz recording you are referring to? Normally I'm not a fan of Horowitz, but who knows. And I'm curious about the Ranki. I guess you're referring to this CD?:
http://www.amazon.com/Ranki-Plays-Schubert/dp/B0008F6LPA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1279885421&sr=8-1
OOP (and expsensive :-[) of course. How is the Schubert Sonata on the CD (if that's the one you are referring to)?
Thanks
Quote from: Verena on July 23, 2010, 03:47:41 AM
Hello Mandryka,
I'll have to check out your recommendation. The only problem is (I guess) the Arbiter sound, which is often rather mediocre. I have a few questions.. Actually, my favorite is Kempff - do you know his recording? Can you please specify which Horowitz recording you are referring to? Normally I'm not a fan of Horowitz, but who knows. And I'm curious about the Ranki. I guess you're referring to this CD?:
http://www.amazon.com/Ranki-Plays-Schubert/dp/B0008F6LPA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1279885421&sr=8-1
Yes, that's the CD. The Ranki D960 is tense and intense in the first movement -- not at all eccentric in terms of tempo. It's a bleak reading.
The slow movement his rather steely touch prevents the music from ever becoming saccharine.
Mention of D960 means that I can't resist a plug for Yudina's extraordnary performance -- full of dramatic tempo changes. Well worth seeking out I would say, even f you end up by hating it.
The Horszowski recording is live, and is well recorded.
The best Schubert impromptu from Horowitz I know is the G-flat major one in Vol 1 of the Sony Horowitz Edition.
He recorded quite a lot of Schubert in fact. Some of it marvelous and some of it less successful.
Has anyone heard this recording from Koroliov? -- I'm particularly interested in the Moments Musicaux
Quote from: Mandryka on July 23, 2010, 10:11:00 AM
Has anyone heard this recording from Koroliov? -- I'm particularly interested in the Moments Musicaux
It's beautifully and interestingly paced, like everything he records.
Quote from: Mandryka on July 23, 2010, 10:11:00 AM
Has anyone heard this recording from Koroliov? -- I'm particularly interested in the Moments Musicaux
For me, Koroliov's D.960 and the Moments Musicaux are extremely intimate and serene views. Koroliov strikes by an apparent unromantic detachment, with beautiful piano tone and poise. I believe it is quite personal and very interesting in its own way. But don't expect anything like the formidable tension of Richter's lunar view of the Sonata and for a totally contrasting "modern" reading of the MM I would suggest the wildly imaginative and poetic Youri Egorov 1987 recital.
(http://img.youtube.com/vi/cGAY6Cer2Ew/0.jpg) (http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/amg/classical_albums/cov200/cl300/l361/l3617420x0v.jpg)
QuoteYes, that's the CD. The Ranki D960 is tense and intense in the first movement -- not at all eccentric in terms of tempo. It's a bleak reading.
The slow movement his rather steely touch prevents the music from ever becoming saccharine.
Mention of D960 means that I can't resist a plug for Yudina's extraordnary performance -- full of dramatic tempo changes. Well worth seeking out I would say, even f you end up by hating it.
The Horszowski recording is live, and is well recorded.
The best Schubert impromptu from Horowitz I know is the G-flat major one in Vol 1 of the Sony Horowitz Edition.
He recorded quite a lot of Schubert in fact. Some of it marvelous and some of it less successful.
Thanks very much! Great to hear that the Horszowski is in good sound. I'm familiar with the Yudina readings - it's very impressive.
http://www.goear.com/files/external.swf?file=7bbb538
This is Nikolai Demidenko playing D946/2, which I am enjoying a lot at the moment. I just wanted to share it and to get any ideas you have for interesting recordings of D946.
This guy Demidenko is never disappointing live but frequently disappointing on CD I think. This Schubert CD is geat though!
Quote from: Mandryka on October 08, 2010, 11:35:54 PM
I just wanted to share it and to get any ideas you have for interesting recordings of D946.
Pollini and Kocsis.
Quote from: Drasko on October 09, 2010, 04:01:15 AM
Kocsis.
Trust you to come up with something like that. ;)
Where is it then? On a DVD?
Quote from: Mandryka on October 09, 2010, 05:12:20 AM
Where is it then?
On my hard disk, recorded of internet, from here (http://sites.radiofrance.fr/francemusique/em/concert-soir/emission.php?e_id=80000056&d_id=395000773&arch=1). I don't speak French, can you still listen to it on request? If you can't and no one has better recording of it I'll upload mine, but it's not perfect, I forgot to set the recording levels right so it is bit noisy and gets crowded at loudest moments.
Quote from: Drasko on October 09, 2010, 07:39:58 AM
On my hard disk, recorded of internet, from here (http://sites.radiofrance.fr/francemusique/em/concert-soir/emission.php?e_id=80000056&d_id=395000773&arch=1). I don't speak French, can you still listen to it on request? If you can't and no one has better recording of it I'll upload mine, but it's not perfect, I forgot to set the recording levels right so it is bit noisy and gets crowded at loudest moments.
Yours maybe the only way to hear it -- they clear the archive 30 days after broadcast.
Quote from: Mandryka on October 08, 2010, 11:35:54 PM
I just wanted to share it and to get any ideas you have for interesting recordings of D946.
The best I have ever heard by far is Kempff live - that recording has moments of sublime beauty:
http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Beethoven-Schubert-Johann-Sebastian/dp/B00004Y6OI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1286645386&sr=8-4
Quote from: Mandryka on October 09, 2010, 07:58:52 AM
Yours maybe the only way to hear it -- they clear the archive 30 days after broadcast.
Ok, here (http://www.mediafire.com/?uad4z0bdasldgb4).
(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/bravo.gif)(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/bravo.gif)(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/bravo.gif)(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/bravo.gif)(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/bravo.gif)(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/bravo.gif)
I love the way he doesn't hang around. And the way he isn't frightened to use the piano percussively.
Quote from: Mandryka on October 08, 2010, 11:35:54 PM
http://www.goear.com/files/external.swf?file=7bbb538
This is Nikolai Demidenko playing D946/2, which I am enjoying a lot at the moment. I just wanted to share it and to get any ideas you have for interesting recordings of D946.
This guy Demidenko is never disappointing live but frequently disappointing on CD I think. This Schubert CD is geat though!
As an aside, I've been looking for a program that will allow me to post excerpts from my own collection on this forum. How good is Goear in this regard? Apologies for a hijack of the thread but I suspect others are interested as well.
Quote from: Drasko on October 09, 2010, 09:43:21 AM
Ok, here (http://www.mediafire.com/?uad4z0bdasldgb4).
Thanks a lot for this. An individual, enjoyable account.
Quote from: Holden on October 09, 2010, 02:30:32 PM
As an aside, I've been looking for a program that will allow me to post excerpts from my own collection on this forum. How good is Goear in this regard? Apologies for a hijack of the thread but I suspect others are interested as well.
Well you can see it works and it's very easy and free to use.
There's a bit of a trick getting the thing to display properly. The code for the one I put here with the Demidenko is
http://www.goear.com/files/external.swf?file=7bbb538
embedded in
[flash=353,132]
and
[ /flash]
That should help you.
For those interested here's Kocsis' complete beforementioned Schubert recital, my recording of internet stream, 320 kbps mp3s.
Zoltan Kocsis 04.07.2009 at l’ Eglise Notre Dame d’Auvers-sur-Oise - Schubert D899, D946 & D960 (http://www.mediafire.com/?or0ijzon2io9v)
Quote from: Drasko on October 14, 2010, 10:10:34 AM
For those interested here's Kocsis' complete beforementioned Schubert recital, my recording of internet stream, 320 kbps mp3s.
Zoltan Kocsis 04.07.2009 at l' Eglise Notre Dame d'Auvers-sur-Oise - Schubert D899, D946 & D960 (http://www.mediafire.com/?or0ijzon2io9v)
:-*
What is the consensus* on Uchida's Schubert? It is often notable by its absence in much discussion, even where other high profile traversals such as Brendel or Kempff are regularly present.
*I'll settle for half-way to this ;)
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on July 07, 2011, 09:25:27 AM
What is the consensus* on Uchida's Schubert? It is often notable by its absence in much discussion, even where other high profile traversals such as Brendel or Kempff are regularly present.
I don't know what the consensus really is, but her cycle is well played, well recorded, but a bit fussy and/or idiosyncratic. I find her compelling in some of the late-middle sonatas (D845, say), but not in the early sonatas or final three. Many pianists are better in this repertoire, and if you want a cycle or something approaching it, Kempff, Endres, Klien, Zacharias, Kuerti, Brendel, and Dalberto all have more to offer, at least to my ears. For individual recordings, you can add Richter, Kovacevich, Lupu, Volodos, and some others to that list.
Quote from: Todd on July 07, 2011, 10:17:29 AM
I don't know what the consensus really is, but her cycle is well played, well recorded, but a bit fussy and/or idiosyncratic. I find her compelling in some of the late-middle sonatas (D845, say), but not in the early sonatas or final three. Many pianists are better in this repertoire, and if you want a cycle or something approaching it, Kempff, Endres, Klien, Zacharias, Kuerti, Brendel, and Dalberto all have more to offer, at least to my ears. For individual recordings, you can add Richter, Kovacevich, Lupu, Volodos, and some others to that list.
Thanks! It doesnt sound compatable with my current preferences. I like a granitic style of Schubert playing - either through the emotional contrasts and almost excessive power of Richter, or the sobriety of Brendel. With Brendel in particular I get the sense that he is "digging" into the music, and he offers a nice middle ground between head and heart, passionate but not in an extrovert way. It has been described with words like unsmiling, but it's so compelling and there is always wit in his playing, just not... slapstick or bear hugs.
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on July 07, 2011, 10:40:13 AM
Thanks! It doesnt sound compatable with my current preferences. I like a granitic style of Schubert playing - either through the emotional contrasts and almost excessive power of Richter, or the sobriety of Brendel. With Brendel in particular I get the sense that he is "digging" into the music, and he offers a nice middle ground between head and heart, passionate but not in an extrovert way. It has been described with words like unsmiling, but it's so compelling and there is always wit in his playing, just not... slapstick or bear hugs.
You should try Yudina and Eduard Erdman and Sofronnitsky.
The Brendel CDs to have are the early VOX ones I think
Thanks! Yudina and Sofronitsky should be simple to hear (I have a friend who collects this kind of thing) - not sure about Erdman but I'll keep an eye out.
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on July 07, 2011, 09:25:27 AM
What is the consensus* on Uchida's Schubert? It is often notable by its absence in much discussion, even where other high profile traversals such as Brendel or Kempff are regularly present.
*I'll settle for half-way to this ;)
I have Uchida's impromptus and they're marvelous! She isn't a colorist like Lupu but her imagination is on fire, wringing everything she can from the music.
But this approach apparently seems to occasionally rub a Penguin reviewer the wrong way in the sonatas (but not the impromptus) and she's criticized for "over-projecting" or some such. But this sounds to me more like an issue of taste than an actual criticism, at least based on that impromptu disc I have. Penguin overall gives her sonatas a thumbs up, however.
If it's more "granitic" Schubert you're after then Andsnes is your man. I have two of his four Schubert sonata discs on EMI and his chiseled approach is very distinctive. I hear it as even more chiseled than Richter, and it's extremely entertaining if juuuuust missing out on the top spot next to Lupu and Goode.
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on July 07, 2011, 01:06:46 PM
Thanks! Yudina and Sofronitsky should be simple to hear (I have a friend who collects this kind of thing) - not sure about Erdman but I'll keep an eye out.
Erdmann's Schubert recordings are available in good sound on Tahra. Along with Schnabel and Yudina and Sofronitsky, he is the most interesting of the "historical" Schubert interpreters.
Along with Richter and maybe Sokolov, the great modern Schubert sonata interpreters on record are Claudio Arrau and Valery Afanassiev. Others -- Haskil, Gilels and Annie Fischer for example -- recorded much less Schubert, though what they did set down is exciting. Kempff and Horszowski and Brendel amd Lupu recorded a lot but although there are some high points (Kenmpff's live Klavierstueke, Horszowski's live impromptus, Brendel's VOX D959), most of it is really just for indomitable collectors or penguinists.
Afanassiev's aesthetic is an experiment in taking the music as far as possible allong the Richter route. The result, on ECM and Denon elsewhere, is interesting.
One problem with D960 is to do with balancing the movements -- how to balance I ans II in the face of III and IV? Too often IV is trivialised (Haskil, Schnabel) or over mannered, over emphatically played (Richter). I think that Afanassiev's Denon D960 is the most successful I know in making sense of the
whole sonata. That alone would make the interpretation a major contribution. But there are other aspects which are equally mind blowing -- Afanassiev's ability to create a complex web of phrases is wonderful and unmatched -- and it's a unifying property of the interpretation, present in all 4 movements. With Afanassiev on Denon, the whole sonata is made of primal slime, the whole sonata is bathed in amniotic fluid.
Don't forget the Wanderer Fantasie -- it's a sonata in all but name and IMO it's Schubert's most important work for piano at least from the point of view of influence. It's a premonition of all the big romantic piano sonatas.
Though not exactly the first name you would think of as regards this composer, Horowitz in D960 on RCA is really great, without excesses and yet gripping, one of my favourites together with Yudina. I´d also like to mention Anton Kuerti´s early LP on monitor with the Wanderer and Sonata D894, the Wanderer being especially good and more varied in its phrasing than Richter´s famous EMI.
As regards the 3 Klavierstücke D946, a works that perhaps tends to be somewhat overlooked, I mostly stick to the early Brendel philips recording, rather than an early Arrau, Brendel/vox, Joeres/EMI and Rösel/eterna.
Quote from: DieNacht on July 07, 2011, 10:53:04 PM
Though not exactly the first name you would think of as regards this composer, Horowitz in D960 on RCA is really great, without excesses and yet gripping, one of my favourites together with Yudina. I´d also like to mention Anton Kuerti´s early LP on monitor with the Wanderer and Sonata D894, the Wanderer being especially good and more varied in its phrasing than Richter´s famous EMI.
As regards the 3 Klavierstücke D946, a works that perhaps tends to be somewhat overlooked, I mostly stick to the early Brendel philips recording, rather than an early Arrau, Brendel/vox, Joeres/EMI and Rösel/eterna.
Which Horowitz record do you like -- the DG studio one or the 1953 Carnegie Hall record?
I haven't heard Kuerti's Wanderer. For me, I want a less hectoring style that I hear from Richter -- Ney, Virssaladze, Demidenko, Arrau are all very special in their own way.
As regards D960, it´s the RCA from Carnegie Hall, an LP version. I think I heard a few excerpts once from the DG, but contrary to my (apparently superficial) impression, when reading some reviews on the web it turns out the most people view the DG as more eccentric and dramatic than the RCA, whereas I vaguely remember it as somewhat "timid" - I seem to be wrong.
Heard the RCA again this morning, and in the finale Horowitz does become more stormy than most other pianists, but it just adds more to the work and overall his reading is not bombastic, it´s very melodical and rather intimate. Obviously, though, my taste is rather directed towards the expressively Romantic dimension in Schubert, hence my preference for him and Yudina ... Reading the reviews has certainly made the DG more interesting to get, though ... I´ve got
Damgaard/classico
Kempff/dg
Horowitz/rca 53
Schnabel/tim 39
B-Kovacevich/emi
Richter/brilliant
Richter/praga
Richter/eurodisc 72
Haskil,1951/philips box set
Sofronitsky,1956/melodiya box set
Yudina/mono melodiya
but can´t say to know every recording in detail.
Concerning the Wanderer, the Richter is also a bit monotonous (?!) to me; also own the early Arrau/columbia, a David Strong/Classico and Brendel/vox, plus the mentioned and preferred Kuerti, so it is a rather limited selection. A very knowing collector I knew considered the Richter one of the best piano records ever made, and I remember having sold it to a famous, pianist member of the Koppel family dynasty of musicians ... However it is not a work that - to my impression - leaves so much room for a lot of different interpretations, on an overall scale at least.
Quote from: DieNacht on July 07, 2011, 10:53:04 PM
As regards the 3 Klavierstücke D946, a works that perhaps tends to be somewhat overlooked, I mostly stick to the early Brendel philips recording, rather than an early Arrau, Brendel/vox, Joeres/EMI and Rösel/eterna.
I like Pires for D946.
Uchida's name came up earlier in this thread. I praised her impromptu disc and since I just acquired her disc w/ D.840 & D.894 (for cheap) I figured I'd give it a spin and pit it against some heavyweight competition: Lupu and Richter.
I find Uchida passing muster at every turn. Well done and a nice addition to my Schubert collection!
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/6e/80/71971363ada0e6ef0f8ad010.L.jpg)
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 21, 2011, 07:27:30 PM
Uchida's name came up earlier in this thread. I praised her impromptu disc and since I just acquired her disc w/ D.840 & D.894 (for cheap) I figured I'd give it a spin and pit it against some heavyweight competition: Lupu and Richter.
I find Uchida passing muster at every turn. Well done and a nice addition to my Schubert collection!
Wasn't entirely sure what that phrase meant, so I looked it up:
QuoteIdiom:
pass muster
To be judged as acceptable.
After hearing Richter's 894 (his favorite Schubert sonata), I have lost interest in obtaining more performances of this work. I have the Lupu you mentioned, along with Kempff, but neither left much of an impression.
Quote from: George on July 21, 2011, 07:40:35 PM
After hearing Richter's 894 (his favorite Schubert sonata), I have lost interest in obtaining more performances of this work. I have the Lupu you mentioned, along with Kempff, but neither left much of an impression.
Yeah, Richter is almost in a league by himself in D.894 with that extreeeeemely slowwwwwww first movement. It's held together by sheer willpower alone otherwise it'd grind right to a halt after three measly bars! ;D
It's been so long since I've heard Kempff in this repertoire I probably shouldn't comment. Lupu I find extraordinary in Schubert and easily strides alongside Richter (Uchida, though, has earned her keep with this disc).
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on July 21, 2011, 07:27:30 PM
Uchida's name came up earlier in this thread. I praised her impromptu disc and since I just acquired her disc w/ D.840 & D.894 (for cheap) I figured I'd give it a spin and pit it against some heavyweight competition: Lupu and Richter.
I find Uchida passing muster at every turn. Well done and a nice addition to my Schubert collection!
I listened to her D960 yesterday and thought similarly -- very good. There's a sweep to it, it's dramatic without being exaggerated. Most of all the way she creates a living pulse through the whole first movement is very effective.
By the way I also listened to Schnabel. Has anyone here compared the EMI and Music and Arts masterings? I have the EMI
Quote from: Mandryka on July 22, 2011, 09:06:38 PM
I listened to her D960 yesterday and thought similarly -- very good. There's a sweep to it, it's dramatic without being exaggerated. Most of all the way she creates a living pulse through the whole first movement is very effective.
By the way I also listened to Schnabel. Has anyone here compared the EMI and Music and Arts masterings? I have the EMI
I have compared the EMI and M&A Impromptus and the mastering is very close.
Agh curses! I found the Uchida box cheaply so will pick it up ;) Thanks for the extra advocacy! Strange how I feel more compelled to be completist with Schubert piano music boxes than Beethoven ones.
Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on July 23, 2011, 03:58:38 AM
Strange how I feel more compelled to be completist with Schubert piano music boxes than Beethoven ones.
I am also a victim of the same statistical deviation.
Quote from: George on July 21, 2011, 07:40:35 PM
Wasn't entirely sure what that phrase meant, so I looked it up:
After hearing Richter's 894 (his favorite Schubert sonata), I have lost interest in obtaining more performances of this work. I have the Lupu you mentioned, along with Kempff, but neither left much of an impression.
I agree about Richter. The performance on Philips is an extraordinary exercise in the Richter understanding of the late sonatas. No one else, not even Afanassiev, has dared to create such a lunar landscape out of Schubert's music.
The other two which I cherish are Eduard Erdmann's and Arrau's.
The adaptability of Schubert's music is quite striking -- that this sonata can bear the treatment that Richter gives it, and the treatment that Erdmann gives it, is quite remarkable. You get similar things on record with the 9th symphony. Is Schubert's music the most adaptable ever written?
That was a very helpful mail, Mandryka - I thought, hey, he's got the wrong sonata, Erdmann did D.664 and the last three on those EMI discs (plus D.899 and Schumann Op.12), but I googled and found it on YouTube. This will be my next Schubert listening session, for sure. Up to now I have cherished three renditions of D.894: the above-mentioned Richter, transcendent, Howard Shelley's rather beautiful fortepiano version (Amon Ra 1995 - surely one of the earliest Schubert recordings on a period piano) and the somewhat perverse superscription by Dieter Schnebel (Schubert-Phantasie - also on YouTube - is nothing sacred?), which is up there with Zender's Winterreise and Schumann Fantasie in C, which it however preceded, in the "German Composers Make The Oldies New Stakes" (Webern and Schoenberg having started the thing off). But Erdmann is my nomination for THE canonical Schubert pianist, so I am all agog.
Quote from: mjwal on July 23, 2011, 08:16:29 AM
That was a very helpful mail, Mandryka - I thought, hey, he's got the wrong sonata, Erdmann did D.664 and the last three on those EMI discs (plus D.899 and Schumann Op.12), but I googled and found it on YouTube. This will be my next Schubert listening session, for sure. Up to now I have cherished three renditions of D.894: the above-mentioned Richter, transcendent, Howard Shelley's rather beautiful fortepiano version (Amon Ra 1995 - surely one of the earliest Schubert recordings on a period piano) and the somewhat perverse superscription by Dieter Schnebel (Schubert-Phantasie - also on YouTube - is nothing sacred?), which is up there with Zender's Winterreise and Schumann Fantasie in C, which it however preceded, in the "German Composers Make The Oldies New Stakes" (Webern and Schoenberg having started the thing off). But Erdmann is my nomination for THE canonical Schubert pianist, so I am all agog.
There are some splendid other things from Erdmann -- some Haydn Variations and Brahms Intermezzi. And someone sent me a Beethoven Concerto 3 recently which I haven;t listened to. Let me know if you want this stuff.
I didn't know he recorded Schumann's Fantasiestücke.
Dieter Schnebel's name came up recently as an example of s....l....o....w. I've never heard him -- I'll check him out for sure.
You really prefer Erdmann to Schnabel in Schubert? You could be right.
Quote from: Mandryka on July 23, 2011, 08:30:40 AM
There are some splendid other things from Erdmann -- some Haydn Variations and Brahms Intermezzi. And someone sent me a Beethoven Concerto 3 recently which I haven;t listened to. Let me know if you want this stuff.
I didn't know he recorded Schumann's Fantasiestücke.
Dieter Schnebel's name came up recently as an example of s....l....o....w. I've never heard him -- I'll check him out for sure.
You really prefer Erdmann to Schnabel in Schubert? You could be right.
I have the Haydn - my favourite recording of the f-minor variations - and the Brahms, but the Beethoven would be interesting.
Erdmann, Schnabel, Petri, Scherchen moved in the same musical circles in Berlin, in which Busoni was a name to conjure with:
"The disappointments Busoni faced by Spring 1920 contrasted sharply with the accumulation of positive responses he was receiving from Germany. In March Breitkopf & Härtel renewed his publishing contract, and Hermann Scherchen purchased an advertisement in «Signale» entreating Busoni to return. Pianist Edward Erdmann, a rising star of Berlin's avant-garde, wrote Busoni an emphatic letter, exclaiming: «Oh Master, you are the spiritual father of all youth, the prophet of our desires...and so I will be very egotistical and express the following wish: come back soon to Berlin! This wish must be fulfilled!» Shortly thereafter Scherchen himself pleaded with Busoni..."
http://www.rodoni.ch/busoni/levitz/levitz.html
"In Berlin Erdmann met and was invited to the homes of many prominent musicians including Arthur Nikisch, Ferruccio Busoni, Richard Strauss and Artur Schnabel whose compositions Erdmann championed, giving the first performance of Schnabel's Piano Sonata." http://www.classicsonline.com/artistbio/Eduard_Erdmann/
So Erdmann and Schnabel were of the same aesthetic persuasion, as it were, and it is perhaps invidious to "prefer" one to the other, but I do get more sense of crisis out of the Erdmann Schubert recordings. I do wish he had recorded late Beethoven, and that a record company had got him to record in the 30s.Ah well, we do have Petri's Opp. 106, 109, 110 and 111.
The Schumann is in that German EMI LP box that came out in the 70s. It is lovely in my memory, but I haven't listened to it for a while.
Quote from: mjwal on July 23, 2011, 11:32:54 AM
I have the Haydn - my favourite recording of the f-minor variations - and the Brahms, but the Beethoven would be interesting.
Erdmann, Schnabel, Petri, Scherchen moved in the same musical circles in Berlin, in which Busoni was a name to conjure with:
"The disappointments Busoni faced by Spring 1920 contrasted sharply with the accumulation of positive responses he was receiving from Germany. In March Breitkopf & Härtel renewed his publishing contract, and Hermann Scherchen purchased an advertisement in «Signale» entreating Busoni to return. Pianist Edward Erdmann, a rising star of Berlin's avant-garde, wrote Busoni an emphatic letter, exclaiming: «Oh Master, you are the spiritual father of all youth, the prophet of our desires...and so I will be very egotistical and express the following wish: come back soon to Berlin! This wish must be fulfilled!» Shortly thereafter Scherchen himself pleaded with Busoni..."
http://www.rodoni.ch/busoni/levitz/levitz.html
"In Berlin Erdmann met and was invited to the homes of many prominent musicians including Arthur Nikisch, Ferruccio Busoni, Richard Strauss and Artur Schnabel whose compositions Erdmann championed, giving the first performance of Schnabel's Piano Sonata." http://www.classicsonline.com/artistbio/Eduard_Erdmann/
So Erdmann and Schnabel were of the same aesthetic persuasion, as it were, and it is perhaps invidious to "prefer" one to the other, but I do get more sense of crisis out of the Erdmann Schubert recordings. I do wish he had recorded late Beethoven, and that a record company had got him to record in the 30s.Ah well, we do have Petri's Opp. 106, 109, 110 and 111.
The Schumann is in that German EMI LP box that came out in the 70s. It is lovely in my memory, but I haven't listened to it for a while.
Interesting, I guess one thing that Schanbel and EE had in common is their advocacy of 20th century music. You have Erdmann playing Krenk I guess.
I've never been able to get on with EE's D960 -- fast and nervous. Is that what you mean by "sense of crisis"? In some ways EE's reminds me of how Haskil plays it (which I also don't like). I'm going to listen again to Haskil and Erdmann in that sonata and try to understand them better. Thanks.
I'm talking about the EE D960 on Tahra -- not the live one on Orfeo, which I have but have never played.
That Schumann has never been on CD as far as I can see. When I was looking for it I did find this record which has a Haydn Sonata which I would like to hear
(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/full/25/252384.JPG)
Erdmann's Schubert is more knife-edgy than Haskil, IMO - but will have to listen to hers when I rejoin the greater part of my collection - and of course she didn't play D.959, my favourite.
I think I have the Krenek, not sure.
I'll shut up about Erdmann after this - just to say that if anyone wants to read the fascinating story of his life, musical activities etc, and can read German, this is a gift:
http://www.carl-schirren-gesellschaft.de/JO2-Bobeth.pdf
You might even look at it for the sake of the paintings by Nolde and the etching by Heckel . Erdmann became Nolde's father-in-law. He was also a piano teacher who liked to use figurative language to inspire his pupils; here he is describing the middle section of the slow movement of D.960:
"The men's choir of a small town begins the concert in deep full tones. Then an aging lady singer takes over - her voice is not so beautiful any more but she is a marvellously expressive artist. She is accompanied rather stiffly by a mediocre pianist." It reminds me irresistibly of the fact that Egon Petri, another adept of Busoni in Berlin, taught Victor Borge in the 20s.
Quote from: mjwal on July 24, 2011, 09:05:06 AM
Erdmann's Schubert is more knife-edgy than Haskil, IMO - but will have to listen to hers when I rejoin the greater part of my collection - and of course she didn't play D.959, my favourite.
The D 959 is one of my favorites. I have many interpretations of this one, but Sokolov (live) (http://www.mediafire.com/?pi89fv8mqeogq) is definitely my favorite. Surprisingly, I really enjoy Brendel in this work (at least the live one that I have), as I usually don't like his stuff. Haskil does little for me in Schubert, though I love her Mozart.
Quote...here he is describing the middle section of the slow movement of D.960:
"The men's choir of a small town begins the concert in deep full tones. Then an aging lady singer takes over - her voice is not so beautiful any more but she is a marvellously expressive artist. She is accompanied rather stiffly by a mediocre pianist." It reminds me irresistibly of the fact that Egon Petri, another adept of Busoni in Berlin, taught Victor Borge in the 20s.
That was cool, thanks for sharing it. :)
Quote from: George on July 24, 2011, 11:12:55 AMD959...urprisingly, I really enjoy Brendel in this work (at least the live one that I have), as I usually don't like his stuff.
Brendel is superb at D959, live or studio, and I'm hardly a big Brendel fan.
Brendel once wrote in the New York Review of Books
"Which elements in the course of the B flat sonata would justify the emergence of the transitional bars in question? Where are they announced? The transition is not to be compared to the irrational explosion in the Andante of the A major sonata: that has a psychological connection to the bleak melancholy of the movement's beginning, as well as to the chromatic episodes of the preceding Allegro. By contrast, the transitional bars of the B flat sonata upset the magnificent coherence of his movement, whose motivic material seems quite unconnected to the new syncopated, jerky rhythm. Is the material or atmosphere of the transition taken up anywhere in the later movements? Should its irate dynamic outburst rob the development's grand dramatic climax of its singularity? Most painful to me, however, is that the trill, which is so important to the understanding of the sonata's main theme, is to be played fortissimo, while elsewhere in the movement remaining remote and mysterious. Schubert's first draft still presents the trill, after a relatively brief exposition, in pianissimo."
One idea is that the new music in the repeat is a sort of random outburst and renders the movement (sonata?) incoherent.
From my point of view the problem with the repeat comes about because it engenders from an imbalance in the structure of the sonata as a whole. III and IV are just too light compared with the first half -- III especially If the first movement were treated as an entity in itself then I would have no problem with its randomness. In fact I would regard it as an aspect of the music's modernity.
Schnabel emphasises a sort of bleak rumble in the bass in the opening music of the sonata, which seems to me to be a pre echo of the irrational explosion in the new music of the repeat. Paradoxically Schnabel doesn't take the repeat so go figure, as you Americans say.
Some of the problem can be avoided by making III more weighty than normal -- this is what Valtery Afanassiev does.
amusing how you keep saying Rubinstein "banged" on the keyboard.
It's even more amusing when you say Rubinstein did so, in contrast to Horowitz and Richter.
A couple of late (1987 I think) Howowitz performances of Schubert. If this is banging then I like banging.
Impromptu in G flat major D899 No.3
http://www.youtube.com/v/L6_SbflSwAg
I love the calmness, eerie-ness, and the voicing. The slower than normal tenpo seems to work really well. Listen out for the Vienna Church bells in the distance in the second half -- making the recording even more spiritual ;)
Here's another one I like a lot
Impromptu in B-flat Major, Op.142/3
http://www.youtube.com/v/8YWcVO9Mncw
As far as Rubinstein is concerned, his slow movement from D960 is particularly beautiful I think. Is there really banging going on?
http://www.youtube.com/v/w7kAsyUy9QE
Re Horowitz the worst D960 I have ever heard, to my ears, was his live one at Carnegie Hall. Even his huge fan base haven't put it on youtube as far has I can see.
Quote from: toucan on August 07, 2011, 07:24:39 AM
Yes, it really is. Surprisingly classical in conception, as Horowitz never looses track of the overall structure of the piece. This interpretation is classical also in that Horowitz does not overemphasize the affect - using the structure of the music to contain the emotivity, until it seeps spontaneously onto the piano.
(http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m465/Phil1_05/HorowitzSchubert1.jpg)
The late recordings of Horowitz (not just his DG recording of Schubert, everything) don't seem so good to me as his mid-life performances because late in life Horowitz lost his touch - banging on a piano....
I completely agree. I had written off Horowitz, as I had heard mostly his late stuff. Then I happened to hear some of the early recordings from the 50s, 40s and earlier. They are excellent! I will seek out that early D 960. What year was that performance? EDIT - I see that it is a 1953 Carnegie Hall Performance.
QuoteThere is an early gem by Schubert I'd like to mention. As this is a Schubert thread it should be ok? That's his 3rd piano Sonata in E minor, D.566. I believe it would fit well on a CD (or a concert programme) with Sonatas of Haydn, and with Beethoven's Op 31/1, which leads to Op. 109, just as Schubert's D.566 leads to the Wanderer-Fantaisie. Richter's lacks a certain je ne sais quoi - playfulness perhaps? - especially in bringing about the lovely theme that first appears at the hundreth second of the "moderato" part. But this recording is still clear & recommendable. Funny thing about Richter is, he looked rough but his playing is not necessarily rough - very subtle touch and phrasing, in fact (at times) - unlike Rubinstein, who was of frail stature but banged like a brute on that keyboard.
(http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m465/Phil1_05/Schubert566001.jpg)
I have heard these 566s by Richter:
1964 Aldeburgh - Living Stage and Music and Arts (this is your AS version, no?)
1978 Moscow - Brilliant
1978 Munich - Victor/Japan
and I like the 1978 Moscow recording the best:
QuoteThe timings here were almost identical, but the sound varied greatly. Luckily the one with the best sound, Brilliant Classics, also has the best performance. The main difference, performance wise, is that the central movement is more lively, more playful than in the other performances. As for the 1964 performance, the Music and Arts has better sound than the Living stereo, though each are OOP and hard to find.
I did a survey of the released Schubert Sonatas by Richter. If you are interested, there is more info here. (http://www.classicalmusicguide.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=37906&sid=b3b72616d03950e87e238c0531324526)
Quote from: George on August 07, 2011, 01:52:13 PM
I completely agree. I had written off Horowitz, as I had heard mostly his late stuff. Then I happened to hear some of the early recordings from the 50s, 40s and earlier. They are excellent! I will seek out that early D 960. What year was that performance? EDIT - I see that it is a 1953 Carnegie Hall Performance.
This item seems to be included in this box which are to be released in a couple of weeks.
(http://i.prs.to/t_200/sony88697884092.jpg)
Quote from: George on August 07, 2011, 01:52:13 PM
I completely agree. I had written off Horowitz, as I had heard mostly his late stuff. Then I happened to hear some of the early recordings from the 50s, 40s and earlier. They are excellent! I will seek out that early D 960. What year was that performance? EDIT - I see that it is a 1953 Carnegie Hall Performance.
f=10&t=37906&sid=b3b72616d03950e87e238c0531324526]more info here.[/url]
That's the one which I thought was the worst D960 I had ever heard. Brutal. Hard driven. Relentlessly agitated and edgy. Badly recorded. Do say what you think of it when you get it.
I thought the later one on DG was slightly better.
Quote from: The new erato on August 07, 2011, 11:55:29 PM
This item seems to be included in this box which are to be released in a couple of weeks.
(http://i.prs.to/t_200/sony88697884092.jpg)
Thanks, but I got it another way and yes, Howie, it's poor.
Quote from: toucan on December 22, 2011, 03:47:59 PM
In and around mn 5:26 of the Fantasia there is one of those passages that only Schubert and Beethoven were capable of and that would make death a sweet and joyful experience if those passages were played to us while we are engaged in the activity of dying...
T
he Fantasia is supposed to be a four-hand piece but in this recording the two other hands seem to belong to a ghost...
It's a two handed arrangement -- she made the arrangement herself. The best bit of the Fantasia for my money is the fugue.
Good post Toucan. It's always nice to be prompted to go back to her recordings as they are full of unusual ideas and are often very successful in their own terms.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41tYbeT-WqL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
The Uchida set remains my favorite Schubert.
I was excited when I first heard Uchida was going to record Schubert's sonatas, because personally her Mozart is revelatory, especially her conception of Mozart's Piano Concerto No.18, Rondo in A minor and Sonata in F Major K.533. These Mozart works, under her hands, were profound meditations, which could turn towards humour or anger on a dime. My estimation of Mozart really grew with these interpretations.
I discovered her Schubert to be just as personal, reflective and well constructed conceptually. The tonality of the piano is well considered and her not-too-dramatic but fierce concentration add to the sublime, pastoral wandering of these works.
My other favorite Schuberterians are Brendel, Richter, Tan, and Kempff.
I have to say that I was slightly disappointed by Uchida's recorded D.960, which I found too smooth, too - moderate; I have only listened once, however - I do not know the other two last sonatas.
This winter I went to hear her playing all three last sonatas in Berlin, where I winter, and it was a revelation. D.960 came as the culmination of the set (I believe Schubert's manuscripts were labelled 1,2 and 3) - and the repeat in the first movement that had Mandryka worrying in an earlier post, with its "unmotivated" outbreak, seemed perfectly justified by the magical tension she created within the "moderate" calm of the exposition (sometimes in music you have the stillness in the eye of the tornado; this was the tornado within the stillness). This work has never left me with tears streaming from my eyes before. I so wish her live recordings of Schubert in particular would become available, by hook or by crook.
Now playing:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512VHiE7kAL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
I find this recording very warm. Almost vinyl like, but flirting with a gray dullness that I enjoy. Calm, quiet, and without bravado. Enjoyable to these ears.
What is the extent of Goode's output of Schubert? Any box sets out there?
Quote from: mjwal on March 27, 2012, 10:09:08 AM
I have to say that I was slightly disappointed by Uchida's recorded D.960, which I found too smooth, too - moderate; I have only listened once, however - I do not know the other two last sonatas.
This winter I went to hear her playing all three last sonatas in Berlin, where I winter, and it was a revelation. D.960 came as the culmination of the set (I believe Schubert's manuscripts were labelled 1,2 and 3) - and the repeat in the first movement that had Mandryka worrying in an earlier post, with its "unmotivated" outbreak, seemed perfectly justified by the magical tension she created within the "moderate" calm of the exposition (sometimes in music you have the stillness in the eye of the tornado; this was the tornado within the stillness). This work has never left me with tears streaming from my eyes before. I so wish her live recordings of Schubert in particular would become available, by hook or by crook.
Thanks for sharing that!
I would LOVE to hear a live recording of her Schubert.
Quote from: Leo K on March 27, 2012, 02:47:51 PM
Thanks for sharing that!
I would LOVE to hear a live recording of her Schubert.
Did you listen to some HIP interpretations, Leo? I mean Badura-Skoda, Bilson, Vermeulen... Considering your usual tastes, at least the first two are mandatory. BTW, I also love Uchida's Mozart and Schubert. I also think highly of András Schiff's set, recently re-released.
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on March 27, 2012, 02:59:58 PM
Did you listen to some HIP interpretations, Leo? I mean Badura-Skoda, Bilson, Vermeulen... Considering your usual tastes, at least the first two are mandatory. BTW, I also love Uchida's Mozart and Schubert. I also think highly of András Schiff's set, recently re-released.
I once had two Melvyn Tan disks of Schubert's last three, but unfortunately I lost them. I really enjoyed those disks, and he remains a top favorite. I was about to replace them but instead found Vermeulen's set, and have been astounded and love the sound of the fortepiano. Someday I'll return to Tan though, if just to relive the wonderful magic of first hearing Schubert on the fortepiano.
My most recent HIP Schubert is three disks of Bilson's set, and eventually want to get his whole set. So far, I've heard his D.850 and like his rather rough, rustic abandon, at least in that work.
Sounds like Badura-Skoda is right up my alley. I have his Beethoven (fortepianos) cycle and I'm sure I'd enjoy his Schubert too!
Quote from: Leo K on March 27, 2012, 03:20:01 PM
I once had two Melvyn Tan disks of Schubert's last three, but unfortunately I lost them. I really enjoyed those disks, and he remains a top favorite. I was about to replace them but instead found Vermeulen's set, and have been astounded and love the sound of the fortepiano. Someday I'll return to Tan though, if just to relive the wonderful magic of first hearing Schubert on the fortepiano.
My most recent HIP Schubert is three disks of Bilson's set, and eventually want to get his whole set. So far, I've heard his D.850 and like his rather rough, rustic abandon, at least in that work.
Sounds like Badura-Skoda is right up my alley. I have his Beethoven (fortepianos) cycle and I'm sure I'd enjoy his Schubert too!
I would like to listen to Tan. People usually talk quite rudely about him, but your support make me curious.
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on March 27, 2012, 03:43:02 PM
No surprise, I guess, my Tatrai brother. ;)
Angelic....cool that the Tatrai worked out for you. Shows you openess to different interps. Lovin' the music, not the player. ;D
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RSxbfrv3L._SL500_.jpg)
Got this one - no excusing the cover. :o
Gramophone was lukewarm about it - saying he took much of them too fast.
Quote from: Scion7 on March 27, 2012, 06:18:12 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RSxbfrv3L._SL500_.jpg)
Got this one - no excusing the cover. :o
Gramophone was lukewarm about it - saying he took much of them too fast.
They should of used your avatar for the cover....not relevant, but at least it would have been stinkin' cool. ;D
Bogey,
You mentioned Goode's Schubert, and that brought back a memory of hearing his D.960, as that was my first hearing of that work! I'd like to track down that recording too, along with Tan's disk, seeing how cheap they are on Amazon :)
In the meantime, I'm just discovering Schnabel's Schubert, I have sampled around his recordings and feel I'm going to love these recordings :)
Reviving an old thread:
Based on the recommendations in this thread, I went ahead and ordered (what Myriam Scherchen at Tahra says was their last copy of) Erdmann playing the D894 and 958-960:
(http://www.tahra.com/images/products/218.jpg)
I haven't given the whole set a run through, but from what I've heard, it's compelling stuff. He tends to be a bit on the brisk side, definitely less sentimental than what most pianists give us, but I hear intensity, energy, and a wonderful grasp of the architecture. Some movements work better for me than others, and these recordings are to me not definitive (I think I still prefer Schnabel and Annie Fischer in at least D960), but I'm glad to have gotten a hold of a copy.
Quote from: liuzerus87 on June 28, 2012, 05:32:15 PM
Reviving an old thread:
Based on the recommendations in this thread, I went ahead and ordered (what Myriam Scherchen at Tahra says was their last copy of) Erdmann playing the D894 and 958-960:
(http://www.tahra.com/images/products/218.jpg)
I haven't given the whole set a run through, but from what I've heard, it's compelling stuff. He tends to be a bit on the brisk side, definitely less sentimental than what most pianists give us, but I hear intensity, energy, and a wonderful grasp of the architecture. Some movements work better for me than others, and these recordings are to me not definitive (I think I still prefer Schnabel and Annie Fischer in at least D960), but I'm glad to have gotten a hold of a copy.
The D960 is maybe the most difficult performance to understand there. It's as if the first movement is a sort of prelude for the other three in Erdmann's conception of the music. ii, iii and iv are the main business of the sonata.
Erdmann's nervousness makes these performances special for me. The anxious uneasy tenseness seems absolutely right for Schubert. I prefer Erdmann to Schnabel for that reason. Schnabel's Schubert is too beautiful.
Mandryka,
After giving another listen through the sonata, I'm almost certain you're right. For example, the finale sounds a lot more brooding and dark to me in Erdmann's hands, a less of a happy-go-lucky time. It's definitely an interesting approach... I'm glad we don't have to choose just one recording.
I also got my hands on Leon Fleisher's reading in his Two hands album yesterday. My thoughts: it's very good, gorgeously played, gentle and reflective, filled with serenity. I also like the added weight and clarity of the left hand in I, doubtless from his years of playing only left hand repertoire. But I don't think it's really top tier reading on the level of Erdmann... certainly if you think Schnabel is too beautiful, I don't think you'll rate Fleisher. But my girlfriend was a big fan of this recording, so I'd thought I'd see what others think.
I've been listening to the D850 by Russell Sherman here, mainly because George was asing about him. I've never listened to Russell Sherman before and so I got a bit curious and D850 is one of the Schubert sonatas I really like, for some reason.
(http://cdn.tradebit.org/usr/mp3-album/pub/9002/488/488735/48873541.jpg)
It's on spotify.
Anyway what a surprise! This is fun. He's light, he has a way of making the music sound quirky and angular. I thought it was the most lively and entertaining performance of the first movement I can remember hearing. He's aenough of a musician to tell a story with the music so there are absolutely no boring moments. The variations, though they're maybe not as emotionally deep as Richter on Praga, they are . . . fun. He's an entertainer, this Sherman, and I like that.
There's quite a bit more on spotify, some mazurkas for example, which I've started to dip into fairly randomly. And guess what . . they sound light, fun, energetic, entertaining, quirky.
Unfortunately the Beethoven seems unobtainable at a reasonable price, maybe it's on youtube, I haven't checked.
Quote from: Mandryka on August 20, 2012, 05:02:37 AMHe's an entertainer, this Sherman, and I like that.
He is indeed. The Schubert is good, the 850 more so than the 960, but his LvB is even better. I'd like to get my hands on his Haydn, as well. (Oh, his Debussy is also worth considering.)
Quote from: Todd on August 20, 2012, 07:00:48 AM
... his LvB is even better.
Are his sonatas as good as his concertos?
Quote from: George on August 20, 2012, 07:12:59 AMAre his sonatas as good as his concertos?
Yes, but they are even more idiosyncratic. Think of him as an older, male HJ Lim, but with talent and ability.
Quote from: Todd on August 20, 2012, 07:42:37 AM
Yes, but they are even more idiosyncratic. Think of him as an older, male HJ Lim, but with talent and ability.
You had me at "even more ideosyncraticc."
Quote from: George on August 20, 2012, 08:06:58 AM
You had me at "even more ideosyncraticc."
He got me at the talent and ability bit actually
Quote from: Scarpia on August 24, 2012, 07:58:50 PM
Lupu only recorded a selection of Schubert's piano music, and the Sonata D537 isn't included. The second movement from that piece is one of my favorite bits of Schubert piano music.
This is one of my favourite pieces too. It's nice to see someone else is fond of it. And I agree that Kempff is outstanding there -- he's always at his best when the music is individual and eccentric and idiosyncratic like this, it suits his kind of free, imaginative, creative style. Tempo and rhythms perfect, not too romantic or lyrical, a slight feeling of impish craziness runs through it.
Having said that there are others I love just as much -- Pludermacher and the live Michelangeli (Michelangeli's DG is much less interesting I think)? Actually, maybe I love them just a little less than Kempff.
Leonskaja has started to play this one in recitals. Is there a recording anywhere?
Altogether I think Pludermacher's Schubert is well worth exploring.
Quote from: Mandryka on August 24, 2012, 10:33:44 PM
... Kempff is outstanding there -- he's always at his best when the music is individual and eccentric and idiosyncratic like this, it suits his kind of free, imaginative, creative style...
I have found Kempff's style to be more conservative and restrained. Can you give some examples of his style as you described it?
Quote from: George on August 25, 2012, 06:51:48 AM
I have found Kempff's style to be more conservative and restrained. Can you give some examples of his style as you described it?
The live Op 126, D946, Brahms op 5, I'm listening to him play Brahms Op 118/4 live as I type and I can hear it there, Seem to remember you can hear it in the mono studio Op 2/2 too, but it's a while since I heard that one.
I don't think that he is restrained when he's inspired, but his dyonysean qualities aren't about dynamic contrasts or emotional variety or romantic heart-on-sleeveness. It's about somehing else which I can't quite find the words for. Like quiet but deeply felt laughter. I'm exploring this pianist quite a lot now, it's a matter of sorting the wheat from the chaff.
Quote from: Mandryka on August 25, 2012, 08:23:31 AM
The live Op 126, D946...
I assume you mean the BBC Legends CD? I am listening to the D946 from there now and is spectacular (and as you described)! If I listened blind, I
never would have guessed it was Kempff.
Quote from: George on August 25, 2012, 06:51:48 AMI have found Kempff's style to be more conservative and restrained.
Kempff's live recordings display a freer style, though there are often more slips. The trade off is generally worth it. His live Emperor with Ozawa is a perfect example.
Quote from: George on August 25, 2012, 08:39:48 AM
I assume you mean the BBC Legends CD? I am listening to the D946 from there now and is spectacular (and as you described)! If I listened blind, I never would have guessed it was Kempff.
The Beethoven bagatelles are an Orfeo Cd, as is the Brahms Op 116. I was thinking of the D946 and Brahms Op5 on BBC.
Another good one is the D566 on BBC.
Quote from: Mandryka on August 25, 2012, 08:45:36 AM
The Beethoven bagatelles are an Orfeo Cd, as is the Brahms Op 116. I was thinking of the D946 and Brahms Op5 on BBC.
The D946 is one of his very best recordings IMO.
(http://edwardrosser.com/images/cd-schubert.jpg)
This is a new Connoisseur Society CD (the same producer who brought you Ivan Moravec's Chopin 50 years ago and David Allen Wehr's Beethoven) featuring pianist Edward Rosser in Schubert's sonata D960 and the Moments musicaux. It's never pedestrian; it's nobody else's Schubert. Sometimes Rosser is finicky or peculiar, sometimes he's inspired, sometimes his phrasing is simply transcendent. And he successfully - I think - pulls off the sonata's slow movement with a timing of 12:51. A pretty remarkable, stimulating release. You can find it at Rosser's website (http://edwardrosser.com/recordings.html) for the very reasonable price of $15, shipping included.
Does anyone have thoughts on Elisabeth Leonskaja's Schubert recordings on Warner/Apex? I was reminded of her 'Trout' with the Alban Berg Quartett (EMI), which I heard in a box with the ABQ's String Quintet and late quartets several years ago when I was just getting to know Schubert's music. I'm interested in her recordings of the sonatas etc.
Quote from: Brian on March 29, 2013, 06:18:27 AM
(http://edwardrosser.com/images/cd-schubert.jpg)
This is a new Connoisseur Society CD (the same producer who brought you Ivan Moravec's Chopin 50 years ago and David Allen Wehr's Beethoven) featuring pianist Edward Rosser in Schubert's sonata D960 and the Moments musicaux. It's never pedestrian; it's nobody else's Schubert. Sometimes Rosser is finicky or peculiar, sometimes he's inspired, sometimes his phrasing is simply transcendent. And he successfully - I think - pulls off the sonata's slow movement with a timing of 12:51. A pretty remarkable, stimulating release. You can find it at Rosser's website (http://edwardrosser.com/recordings.html) for the very reasonable price of $15, shipping included.
Third listen to this and still impressed. "Stimulating" does seem the right word.
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on July 22, 2010, 06:05:39 AM
Earlier in this thread, the subject of period instrument versions came up. This had piqued my interest at the time, and I've been since searching for the Holy Grail of PI Schubert sets. So, I finally have it:
...
Badura-Skoda is at his best here, if you have his Mozart and Beethoven you know what I mean. There are few players on the fortepiano who could best him, and here he uses a variety of pianos, including several different Grafs and reproductions. Some of them have Turkish pedals that produce some truly remarkable sounds. Altogether an interesting experience. :)
As Opus106 mentioned in the bargains thread -- thanks for the tip! -- this has been reissued at a great price (link (http://www.outhere-music.com/en/albums/the-complete-piano-sonatas-played-on-period-instruments-a-364)). I and several others GMG'ers have bought it. I listened to disc 1 last night and noticed some, uh, unusual sounds that I liked but were definitely not what I expected.
I actually wondered if something was wrong with my playback equipment.
Then I re-read this, then I re-listened, and eventually figured out I was hearing these Turkish pedals. I'm sure somebody will pooh-pooh it but I think it's great.
Quote from: Octave on March 30, 2013, 09:07:33 AM
Does anyone have thoughts on Elisabeth Leonskaja's Schubert recordings on Warner/Apex? I was reminded of her 'Trout' with the Alban Berg Quartett (EMI), which I heard in a box with the ABQ's String Quintet and late quartets several years ago when I was just getting to know Schubert's music. I'm interested in her recordings of the sonatas etc.
Just get it. If someone claims not to like it, will that make it any more or less likely that you will like it?
Quote from: Scarpia on June 22, 2013, 10:23:23 PM
Just get it. If someone claims not to like it, will that make it any more or less likely that you will like it?
Oho, Scarpia's on the hunt!
Quote from: Pat B on June 22, 2013, 08:52:33 PM
I actually wondered if something was wrong with my playback equipment.
Then I re-read this, then I re-listened, and eventually figured out I was hearing these Turkish pedals. I'm sure somebody will pooh-pooh it but I think it's great.
Ah yes the jannisary stop, scares the living daylight out of me every time, even when I know they are there. I love them!
(http://edwardrosser.com/images/cd-schubert.jpg)
Finished up a second listen to Edward Rosser's Schubert. In the D960, the Andante serves as the center of gravity for the work. The opening movement is neither especially fast, nor slow, but rather cruises along at a moderate pace (molto moderato?), and though it lacks depth of the best interpretations, it is still nice, and has very fine bass trills. The Andante is slow and hypnotic and very well controlled. It holds together fabulously and adds depth to the interpretation. The third movement is zippy, and the final movement has some almost delicate playing paired to a generally quick tempo and some moderately intense playing from time to time. Overall, it's pretty darned good. More than that, really. I enjoy it more than Pires' recent recording, which itself is very good. That written, Rosser doesn't come close to matching either Kovacevich or Kempff, my favorite takes – rather different takes – in this work, nor does he quite match some other big names or top shelf Schubertians (Endres, Klien, Richter, etc).
The Moments Musicaux are taken pretty slowly much of the time. Rosser plays mostly very seriously, but never aggressively. The playing strikes me as a bit cool at times, as well, not that I'm complaining, and some of the phrasing can be a bit stiff here and there (as happens in one passage in the final movement of D960). As with D960, I cannot say that he matches the best of the best – Lupu and Kovacevich here – but he's worth listening to again. Musically, my biggest complaint is the Hungarian Melody, which while nicely played, just isn't lyrical enough for me.
My only real issue with this disc is the sound. It is very closely miked, but it is also presented in a dynamically constricted, puffy 'n' cloudy fashion that robs a lot of the playing of bite. It's more wood than metal, more decay than attack.
Thanks - this post prompted me to listen far more carefully to Lupu's Moments Musicaux. Very, very good though Gilels is still my favourite
Todd, I agree with you about the sound on the Rosser recording; bit of a pity to note that it's the same producing team who brought us Moravec's Chopin nocturnes 50 (!) years ago. That may be a point of pride from a historical standpoint, but it doesn't mean much today. I hear his next disc will be Grieg; do hope that he can find a place on a record label that better serves its pianists. Sono Luminus comes to mind as an American label that prides itself on unheralded artists and excellent engineering.
I did like the Moment Musicale (#4 I think?) (is that the correct singular spelling of musicaux?) that, in Rosser's hands, evokes Scarlatti very clearly.
Quote from: Brian on June 30, 2013, 12:02:27 PM
Todd, I agree with you about the sound on the Rosser recording; bit of a pity to note that it's the same producing team who brought us Moravec's Chopin nocturnes 50 (!) years ago. That may be a point of pride from a historical standpoint, but it doesn't mean much today. I hear his next disc will be Grieg; do hope that he can find a place on a record label that better serves its pianists. Sono Luminus comes to mind as an American label that prides itself on unheralded artists and excellent engineering.
I did like the Moment Musicale (#4 I think?) (is that the correct singular spelling of musicaux?) that, in Rosser's hands, evokes Scarlatti very clearly.
I think it's Moment Musical.
A couple more "complete" cycles will be out soon. Martino Tirimo's EMI cycle comes out next month - Amazon.de shows August, Amazon France shows unavailble, and Amazon UK shows 9-11 days to ship after a release date of 7/8 - and Ingrid Haebler's cycle will be issued on Decca in September. Haebler's set is also included in a 34 CD Mozart 'n' Schubert box from Japan. I've got Haebler's D784, so I will be getting that cycle, and Tirimo, well, it probably couldn't hurt anything.
Quote from: Annie on August 25, 2013, 10:19:26 AM
What's the opinion on Lewis's impromptus?
I have Lewis's disc of the last two sonatas. Based on that I'd be willing to give the Impromptus a try, even though I don't consider him the last word in Schubert...that'd be Lupu.
I'd say all of Lewis's Schubert is worthwhile, although I don't know whom I would pick as the "last word" (Lupu would certainly be in the running, but so would Brendel....)
If looking for 'newer' pianists in Schubert, you might want to give a listen to David Fray.
Quote from: Annie on August 26, 2013, 05:29:16 AM
If I'm not mistaken this is his only Schubert output, including only D899...correct me if I'm wrong
He's also recorded the Wanderer Fantasy and a couple of Schubert/Liszt song transcriptions here (coupled with the Liszt Sonata)
[asin]B000EQ4G5U[/asin]
This Lucchesini is also highly liked by forum members, IIRC.
[asin]B003KK7MIU[/asin]
This is going to be my main listening for a bit, so I am reviving.
I have Kempff, digital Brendel, in the mail is Badura-Skoda, i also have all ones Perahia recorded, several by Deyanova, and a few strays here and there.
I rank Brendel the best, and then Kempff. Have not heard PBS yet. Perahia is very good but not quite up to Kempff. Deyanova is a write off.
I see Zachiaras going cheap. I like him in general. Opinions?
Please tell me what Badura-Skoda is like when it arrives.
Quote from: Ken B on May 12, 2014, 03:28:41 PMI see Zachiaras going cheap. I like him in general. Opinions?
I really dig Zacharias, but then I'm also not as keen on Brendel as you are, so YMMV. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,8394.msg204509.html#msg204509)
PBS was somewhat disappointing to my ears, and certainly not up to his LvB.
Quote from: Todd on May 12, 2014, 03:57:33 PM
I really dig Zacharias, but then I'm also not as keen on Brendel as you are, so YMMV. (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,8394.msg204509.html#msg204509)
PBS was somewhat disappointing to my ears, and certainly not up to his LvB.
Thanks. I was no big Brendel fan from his Mozart, but the Schubert and LvB boxes were absurdly cheap in Canada for a while, and I was really surprised how much I liked them. The Schubert especially. I just went wild at BRO, so need to slow down, but Zach is in my shopping cart.
I like PBS fortepiano in Mozart very much so have high hopes.
Make sure you get a chance to listen to Richter performing Schubert D960! It is a breathtaking rendition IMHO. Go for the one in the Brilliant box! My latest venture into Schubert sonatas has been with Uchida which I actually like quite a bit.
In terms of the Richter D960 it is definitely worth the $25 asked in the MP! Today I would pay that just for the D960 and view the rest as a bonus.
[asin] B0002E4ABY[/asin]
[asin] B000654OUG[/asin]
I am listening to Perahia in 960. Excellent!
There's not a weak disc in the big Perahia box, and a whole lot that are outstanding.
I have Perahia and found is Schubert not in the same class as say Lupu.
For an all round box Kempff is very satisfying.
For something special try Richter
For something magical try Lupu
For the greatest D 960 IMO try Kovascervic - he gets very thing right!
Quote from: Ken B on May 12, 2014, 03:28:41 PM
This is going to be my main listening for a bit, so I am reviving.
I have Kempff, digital Brendel, in the mail is Badura-Skoda, i also have all ones Perahia recorded, several by Deyanova, and a few strays here and there.
I rank Brendel the best, and then Kempff. Have not heard PBS yet. Perahia is very good but not quite up to Kempff. Deyanova is a write off.
I see Zachiaras going cheap. I like him in general. Opinions?
I agree with you about Brendel, my favorite Schubert on modern piano. He is a fantastic lecturer, too (his EuroArts 5 DVD set includes some deep insights on this music).
I consider Schiff almost at the same level.
Many people love Kempff, but I consider it as a sort of "sugar Schubert" (I see the expression here, but about Uchida :D); too much lyrical and romanticized.
My favorite Schubert on pianoforte is Bilson (playing, instruments and sound quality are top notch); although Badura-Skoda and Vermeulen are fantastic options, too.
P.S.: I have owned the Zacharias set for many years, but IMO it's merely servicial, without magic moments.
Quote from: Gordo on May 13, 2014, 02:22:45 PM
I agree with you about Brendel, my favorite Schubert on modern piano. He is a fantastic lecturer, too (his EuroArts 5 DVD set includes some deep insights on this music).
I consider Schiff almost at the same level.
Many people love Kempff, but I consider it as a sort of "sugar Schubert" (I see the expression here, but about Uchida :D); too much lyrical and romanticized.
My favorite Schubert on pianoforte is Bilson (playing, instruments and sound quality are top notch); although Badura-Skoda and Vermeulen are fantastic options, too.
P.S.: I have owned the Zacharias set for many years, but IMO it's merely servicial, without magic moments.
Thanks for the feedback. Glad I am not the only Brendelian here. He is simply magnificent.
The new Richter Schubert box on Melodiya is superb! Great sound and live performances - in Moscow! On sale at Presto Classical.
Quote from: George on May 14, 2014, 03:54:04 AM
The new Richter Schubert box on Melodiya is superb! Great sound and live performances - in Moscow! On sale at Presto Classical.
I just got this set, very excited about it!
A recital disc such as the one below can't help but be eye-catching. First there are the two white-hot, marketing-driven works - the Schubert and the Liszt. Then, almost as a postscript, comes the time-for-reckoning-trendy-newish piece, the Janáček. In the spotlight at last.
But despite this, missing from this disc is the one sure-fire marketing hook that would set off sales like the 4th of July: the big league, A-lister pianist.
Without that, it's time for some hard prayer...both from the record company and, well, admittedly, the buyer.
So, just who is Philipp Kopachevsky? Actually...dunno. The promotional bio in the booklet is relatively small (well, one page). But truthfully, that's refreshing. Zero glam-shots of questionable contorted poses, no tasteless cleavage crotch-stuffing, etc... Just an informative rundown of his accomplishments (winner of the tenth Schubert competition, appearances...).
The bulk of the lengthy, in-depth notes focus on the music. Nice.
So, what's so special about Philipp Kopachevsky? Other than his right-on-the-money poetic unbuttoning of the Schubert Wanderer, dunno. So far that's the only work I've heard on this disc.
But it's an auspicious start. No question about it.
Kopachevsky is blessed with a poetic and dramatic sixth sense which is perfect for playing up the scowling, "let's leave this wretched wood" moodiness in the music. No quirky twist or fanciful cross-current is underplayed. The musical narrative is tightly woven with every phrase finding something meaningful to say.
Sheer delight...well, as much delight as can be had from such a rich march to the hangman's noose...
Oh, and good sound, too. I've heard better but the clarity is amazing which opens up the music to perfection.
[asin]B00QMXMCHI[/asin]
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on August 12, 2015, 08:43:25 PM
A recital disc such as the one below can't help but be eye-catching. First there are the two white-hot, marketing-driven works - the Schubert and the Liszt. Then, almost as a postscript, comes the time-for-reckoning-trendy-newish piece, the Janáček. In the spotlight at last.
But despite this, missing from this disc is the one sure-fire marketing hook that would set off sales like the 4th of July: the big league, A-lister pianist.
Without that, it's time for some hard prayer...both from the record company and, well, admittedly, the buyer.
So, just who is Philipp Kopachevsky? Actually...dunno. The promotional bio in the booklet is relatively small (well, one page). But truthfully, that's refreshing. Zero glam-shots of questionable contorted poses, no tasteless cleavage crotch-stuffing, etc... Just an informative rundown of his accomplishments (winner of the tenth Schubert competition, appearances...).
The bulk of the lengthy, in-depth notes focus on the music. Nice.
So, what's so special about Philipp Kopachevsky? Other than his right-on-the-money poetic unbuttoning of the Schubert Wanderer, dunno. So far that's the only work I've heard on this disc.
But it's an auspicious start. No question about it.
Kopachevsky is blessed with a poetic and dramatic sixth sense which is perfect for playing up the scowling, "let's leave this wretched pathway" moodiness in the music. No quirky twist or fanciful cross-current is underplayed. The musical narrative is tightly woven with every phrase finding something meaningful to say.
Sheer delight...well, as much delight as can be had from such a rich march to the hangman's noose...
Oh, and good sound, too. I've heard better but the clarity is amazing which opens up the music to perfection.
[asin]B00QMXMCHI[/asin]
A good one that I discovered because of the Liszt sonata.
Quote from: sanantonio on August 12, 2015, 11:41:04 PM
A good one that I discovered because of the Liszt sonata.
Thanks. Yes, one of the better Wanderer's I've heard. I'll be listening to the Liszt sonata soon. How did this one make out during your sojourn?
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on August 13, 2015, 04:47:36 PM
Thanks. Yes, one of the better Wanderer's I've heard. I'll be listening to the Liszt sonata soon. How did this one make out during your sojourn?
I lost all my documentation: the 106 page document with all the reviews, the spreadsheet with over 250 ratings - all I have is an old version that was the last one I backed up. I am in the process of reconstructing it, but only up to Paul Badura-Skoda so far. And, I was so close to being done. So I can't remember what I thought of his recording other than I know it was not bad, but also not one of the great ones. I seem to remember it was on a private label, and he had won some competition, but I may be getting him mixed up with someone else.
::) :-[
Quote from: sanantonio on August 13, 2015, 05:16:57 PM
I lost all my documentation: the 106 page document with all the reviews, the spreadsheet with over 250 ratings - all I have is an old version that was the last one I backed up. I am in the process of reconstructing it, but only up to Paul Badura-Skoda so far. And, I was so close to being done. So I can't remember what I thought of his recording other than I know it was not bad, but also not one of the great ones. I seem to remember it was on a private label, and he had won some competition, but I may be getting him mixed up with someone else.
::) :-[
Yes, I read about that on your Liszt thread. That sucks. That's gotta be up there with losing a winning lottery ticket as far as physical pain.
Are you reconstructing it by listening to all the recordings again? I'm surprised you don't poop little Liszt sonatas by now! ;D Only kidding! That's some serious dedication, there. :)
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on August 13, 2015, 05:54:23 PM
Yes, I read about that on your Liszt thread. That sucks. That's gotta be up there with losing a winning lottery ticket as far as physical pain.
Are you reconstructing it by listening to all the recordings again? I'm surprised you don't poop little Liszt sonatas by now! ;D Only kidding! That's some serious dedication, there. :)
Yes, I am listening a second time - but I will go slower and just do one or two when I feel like it. Amazingly I am not tired of the work.
Bumping up the thread.
Currently going through this set of the sonatas and stuff:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51tnuDqqFDL.jpg)
Brendel's first Philips recordings of the Schubert sonatas, from late 70s to early 80s. A couple of later 2000ish performances complete the set. I love Brendel's unsentimental, sometimes brusque way with Schubert. He may sometimes sound precious and overrefined on points of detail, but he never cheapens the music. As a set I prefer it to Zacharias, Uchida or Kempff. Brendel's Schubert is probing, serious, flowing but also quirky and capricious (like a little child). His later performances became more angular and the singing line was a casualty of that approach.
Onther pianists I like in individual recordings are Cooper, Orozco, Erdmann (I only heard his D960, but it made a big impression).
Quote from: Leo K. on April 06, 2015, 10:19:22 PM
I just got this set, very excited about it!
How did you enjoy it?
Well, looks like André bumped the thread last year after a 4-year dormancy - 8)
Just starting to review my Schubert collection - a lot of discs amassed over the years w/ a bunch of duplications/triplications - don't want to add anything but could certainly replace or cull out recordings - starting w/ 'solo piano' - currently own the first three sets shown below and like to have a PI and MI example when appropriate, so the Orkis & B-S (have all 3 sets) are a nice PI combo which I'll keep, but my only MI set for a LONG time is Uchida, which I also like despite some mixed reviews (see attachment of MANY reviews for those interested) - now, Martino Tirimo has received a number of good comments in the review attachment, but not available at the moment on Amazon USA (have not checked across the pond).
So, curious about thoughts on the Mitsuko Uchida & Tirimo recordings and certainly any others or even 'newer' releases - have not gone down this road in a long while and much is available on Amazon. Thanks - Dave :)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61f5mJp95zL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51tzTHwmTWL.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/716n5ghH-rL._SL1331_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71q8zg6QtlL._SL1200_.jpg)
Hi, some help as I try to wrap my head around Schubert piano sonata options.
Christian Zacharias appears to have recorded some sonatas several times. As best I can make out, there's a selection of the sonatas that he recorded in the late 1970s and early 1980s, and I believe that's available online in this repackaged form:
(https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Features4/v4/1d/7d/1f/1d7d1f2e-32d3-5654-3a0b-2256fd05c7af/dj.dcuxytvr.jpg/1200x1200bf-60.jpg)
There's then what appears to be a completely separate box set, recorded around 1992/3 and first released in 1995 (with a number of iterations since):
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71euxMoDpEL._SX425_.jpg)
There's then a much more recent album (2007) on the MDG label.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51AbKHb3WpL._SX425_.jpg)
Is anyone in a position to confirm some or all of this? And does anyone know if the 5-CD box, or even some of it, is available online/streaming? It's amazing in this day and age that I'm still struggling to hear a sample of something like this, but right now I can't find it anywhere (given that the first album appears to be different, earlier recordings).
Also, does anyone know if the whole of Michel Dalberto's set is available online? Brilliant Classics repackaged it, but all I find online is volumes 10 to 13 of the Denon series. Why there's 9 volumes before that which have disappeared into the dustbin of history, I've no idea.
I've been looking for the
Quote from: Madiel on April 18, 2021, 09:40:03 PM
Also, does anyone know if the whole of Michel Dalberto's set is available online? Brilliant Classics repackaged it, but all I find online is volumes 10 to 13 of the Denon series. Why there's 9 volumes before that which have disappeared into the dustbin of history, I've no idea.
I've been looking in vain for the Dalberto CD box as an inexpensive offer for quite some time, what I've heard seems interesting, plus you get some lesser known works , where for example the Brilliant 3CD box with Miodini is not quite adequate, for several reasons. If it turns up at local sales, I'll buy it for sure.
Interesting how some mass-produced Brilliant boxes are quickly sold out, then gets high second-hand prices, but aren't released again. Such as the Yudina stuff also, for example.
Quote from: Madiel(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71euxMoDpEL._SX425_.jpg)
I have the above in a different packaging. As you can see, they are indeed recorded in 1992-93. I can let you have it, just PM me if interested.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51dx95bby4L._AC_SX425_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51juNCDotiL._AC_SX425_.jpg)
Well the issue is I don't know how interested I ultimately am, because I can't try it out!
In which case I'm more likely to end up choosing one of the other versions I'm considering that I can try out online.
Quote from: Madiel on April 19, 2021, 01:27:42 AM
Well the issue is I don't know how interested I ultimately am, because I can't try it out!
In which case I'm more likely to end up choosing one of the other versions I'm considering that I can try out online.
That's most reasonable.
There's quite a bit of Zacharias' Schubert on both YT and Spotify.
Zacharias has recorded Schubert for two different labels. Originally with EMI and now with the German label MDG which are more recent recordings.
Yet another packaging of the Zacharias, early release on French EMI:
(https://i.imgur.com/RhMEY7S.jpg)
I picked this up in a used bin a couple of years ago since it was so cheap, but haven't had a chance to play it :hidingemoji: I was mostly interested in it for the early/middle sonatas. Daniel Ben-Pienaar has been my recent go to for these early works.
Quote from: Holden on April 19, 2021, 12:40:42 PM
There's quite a bit of Zacharias' Schubert on both YT and Spotify.
Zacharias has recorded Schubert for two different labels. Originally with EMI and now with the German label MDG which are more recent recordings.
The thing is I'm fairly sure he recorded a number of the sonatas for EMI twice. And the EMI recordings readily available online are the first recordings, not the ones appearing in the box set. That's what I'm getting at.
Yes that's correct, the 1990s EMI recordings (including the semi complete set I recommended) are not available on streaming services as far as I can tell, even unusually with none of them appearing as individual bleeding chunks in "Best of Schubert" compilations. The same is true of much of the Dalberto set (some services have more than others, Tidal seems to have the most volumes at the moment). I suspect attempting to upload the recordings to youtube or a similar website would result in an automatic copyright block from Warner Music (or whoever owns Denon now) but which has also not made available any options to purchase the physical CDs except from second hand retailers.
For options for trying things out online you can either wait upon the generosity of streaming services (noted for paying $0.0007 per listen per track to artists, or something like that), or for Warner Classics to reissue the EMI recordings in however many years they decide to do that, or alternately visit a file sharing website such as symphonyshare etc.
Well symphonyshare ain't working so I'll scratch that option off the list...
I see Badura-Skoda's PI set are to be reissued.
Going by the success of his Beethoven cycle it ought to be interesting.
Quote from: The new erato on April 20, 2021, 03:37:59 AM
I see Badura-Skoda's PI set are to be reissued.
Going by the success of his Beethoven cycle it ought to be interesting.
Personally I think his Beethoven is more successful. His Schubert cycle features a number of interesting fortepianos, of which some seem unfortunately not properly restored. In addition his approach seems willful, or perhaps too "literal", with rather eccentric choices in tempi and accents and abrupt transitions. It feels like a ride on a roller coaster in a rickety cart.... ::) Tiring on the ear and mind.
Try before you buy! :)
Or just stick with Jan Vermeulen (complete cycle on EtCetera and a great incomplete cycle on Vanguard (on a Tröndlin)), Andreas Staier and Alexei Lubimov.
Quote from: Que on April 20, 2021, 05:19:53 AM
Jan Vermeulen (complete cycle on Etcetera
That's a great cycle. That Nannette Streicher 1826 fortepiano is something else.
Warmly recommended.
(And I'm not even a HIPster.)
Quote from: amw on April 19, 2021, 10:23:25 PM
Yes that's correct, the 1990s EMI recordings (including the semi complete set I recommended) are not available on streaming services as far as I can tell, even unusually with none of them appearing as individual bleeding chunks in "Best of Schubert" compilations. The same is true of much of the Dalberto set (some services have more than others, Tidal seems to have the most volumes at the moment). I suspect attempting to upload the recordings to youtube or a similar website would result in an automatic copyright block from Warner Music (or whoever owns Denon now) but which has also not made available any options to purchase the physical CDs except from second hand retailers.
For options for trying things out online you can either wait upon the generosity of streaming services (noted for paying $0.0007 per listen per track to artists, or something like that), or for Warner Classics to reissue the EMI recordings in however many years they decide to do that, or alternately visit a file sharing website such as symphonyshare etc.
The blue & white set of the 1990s set is listed on AmazonUS MP for $20.88 (vendor: Rarewaves), so it may not be OOP in Warner's eyes. Of course Warner probably neither knows nor cares that Amazon hates Australia.
Quote from: Que on April 20, 2021, 05:19:53 AM
Personally I think his Beethoven is more successful. His Schubert cycle features a number of interesting fortepianos, of which some seem unfortunately not properly restored. In addition his approach seems willful, or perhaps too "literal", with rather eccentric choices in tempi and accents and abrupt transitions. It feels like a ride on a roller coaster in a rickety cart.... ::) Tiring on the ear and mind.
Try before you buy! :)
Or just stick with Jan Vermeulen (complete cycle on EtCetera and a great incomplete cycle on Vanguard (on a Tröndlin)), Andreas Staier and Alexei Lubimov.
Of all of PBS fortepiano recordings of Schubert the ones I find the best are the Impromtus, IMHO still unmatched by any other fortepiano performance.
I agree with you on the piano sonatas, I prefer his RCA recordings to the fortepiano ones. When the RCA box came out I did some blind testing with the early and mid sonatas (not the incomplete sonatas he chose to complete) against Kempff and aside from knowing Kempff's playing/interpretations ruling it out being a fair blind comparison, PBS still did exceptionally well.
Quote from: Florestan on April 20, 2021, 06:36:13 AM
(And I'm not even a HIPster.)
I have to make sure I'm wearing my HIPster hat when I'm on GMG, *tips fedora*
Here's a review of Edna Stern's new Schubert recording. I know and appreciate Stern a bit for her Bach, which I liked. I've rarely seen a review so harsh as this:
"Tributes to golden age pianists invite comparisons to them, unflattering ones in Stern's case."
Hmm...I wonder if it could be that bad. I'm not big on Schubert so it's hard for me to tell.
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2022/Feb/Schubert-tape-ORC100192.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2022/Feb/Schubert-tape-ORC100192.htm)
Only thing on my wish-list is the big Dalberto Brilliant Classics box, should it turn up cheaply somewhere ...
Quote from: milk on February 02, 2022, 11:05:59 PM
Here's a review of Edna Stern's new Schubert recording. I know and appreciate Stern a bit for her Bach, which I liked. I've rarely seen a review so harsh as this:
"Tributes to golden age pianists invite comparisons to them, unflattering ones in Stern's case."
Hmm...I wonder if it could be that bad. I'm not big on Schubert so it's hard for me to tell.
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2022/Feb/Schubert-tape-ORC100192.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2022/Feb/Schubert-tape-ORC100192.htm)
Try Tobias Koch D 959. It is an improvisation preserving Schubert's pitch patterns.
Quote from: milk on February 02, 2022, 11:05:59 PM
Here's a review of Edna Stern's new Schubert recording. I know and appreciate Stern a bit for her Bach, which I liked. I've rarely seen a review so harsh as this:
"Tributes to golden age pianists invite comparisons to them, unflattering ones in Stern's case."
Hmm...I wonder if it could be that bad. I'm not big on Schubert so it's hard for me to tell.
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2022/Feb/Schubert-tape-ORC100192.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2022/Feb/Schubert-tape-ORC100192.htm)
It's not
that harsh about the performances. But it was a fun read.
Quote from: Madiel on February 02, 2022, 11:33:34 PM
It's not that harsh about the performances. But it was a fun read.
Agreed.
Quote from: Mandryka on February 02, 2022, 11:25:09 PM
Try Tobias Koch D 959. It is an improvisation preserving Schubert's pitch patterns.
I remember you were particularly annoyed by such travesties some time ago...
Quote from: Florestan on February 02, 2022, 11:52:30 PM
I remember you were particularly annoyed by such travesties some time ago...
It is a travesty if seen as a performance of Schubert's sonata, and it is misleading that it is marketed as such. However, if you reframe it as a structured improvisation then it is forgivable.
Quote from: Mandryka on February 03, 2022, 12:04:02 AM
It is a travesty if seen as a performance of Schubert's sonata, and it is misleading that it is marketed as such. However, if you reframe it as a structured improvisation then it is forgivable.
Grande fantaisie brillante sur des motifs harmoniques de la sonate pour piano D959 de Schubert.
Quote from: Florestan on February 03, 2022, 12:27:32 AM
Grande fantaisie brillante sur des motifs harmoniques de la sonate pour piano D959 de Schubert.
Well that's the song "Star Whisperer" by Tori Amos, actually...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0neckDFmJU
Quote from: Madiel on February 02, 2022, 11:33:34 PM
It's not that harsh about the performances. But it was a fun read.
it's well written. Does anyone know the writer? I haven't seen the name before. It sounds like the concept and packaging were a misfire. Maybe recording in analogue tape is fine as an experiment without the whole megillah about its superiority. It'd be interesting to have a thread about wildly different piano recording sounds and about what's truly terrible/great. I'm curious what people think are the best examples of the best pianos recorded in the best ways.
Quote from: Madiel on February 03, 2022, 12:49:27 AM
Well that's the song "Star Whisperer" by Tori Amos, actually...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0neckDFmJU
If I were in the rock/pop/jazz business & running short of inspiration, I'd use fragments of lesser known classical works as an unending source for inspiration and variation.
Quote from: MusicTurner on February 03, 2022, 03:12:17 AM
If I were in the rock/pop/jazz business & running short of inspiration, I'd use fragments of lesser known classical works as an unending source for inspiration and variation.
The idea for the album was Deutsche Grammophon's, not hers. They approached her, not the other way around. Also I'm fascinated at the proposition that D959 is a lesser known classical work.
Fascination can come from unexpected sources ;D
If I knew what joke you were trying to make I might work out whether to laugh...
Anyway. I perhaps should note that I personally find "Star Whisperer" one of the least interesting tracks she produced for the classical-themed album, though I know lots of Tori fans went nuts for it (apparently 10 minutes long and a big instrumental interlude is what they wanted, whereas I find the interlude repetitive). What she did with Debussy, Granados and Alkan was a lot better in my view. But this is a Schubert thread.
Quote from: Madiel on February 03, 2022, 03:37:34 AM
If I knew what joke you were trying to make I might work out whether to laugh...
(...)
You don't have to do that. But strictly speaking I wasn't really suggesting D959 is unknown - just pointing to classical music as a potential source for other genres, via variation. D960 is the better known, though.
I've got the Tori Amos album, but don't know it that well. The live section of 'To Venus & Back' so far remains my favourite of hers, for sure. I'll check the song mentioned tonight.
Quote from: Madiel on February 03, 2022, 12:49:27 AM
Well that's the song "Star Whisperer" by Tori Amos, actually...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0neckDFmJU
You're right of course, very direct quotations, and it turns out that I actually didn't have just that album by Tori Amos, so it's now on my want list.
Quote from: MusicTurner on February 04, 2022, 02:24:32 AM
You're right of course, very direct quotations, and it turns out that I actually didn't have just that album by Tori Amos, so it's now on my want list.
Oh well, my work here is done. :laugh:
Part of the reason I'm not such a fan of that particular song is that the quotation is extremely direct and obvious. In some other songs on the album the reference to a classical piece is still quite apparent, but I think she's done a better job of integrating it into her own material and making something new. Your opinion may vary of course once you hear everything.
Quote from: Madiel on February 04, 2022, 02:43:39 AM
Oh well, my work here is done. :laugh:
Part of the reason I'm not such a fan of that particular song is that the quotation is extremely direct and obvious. In some other songs on the album the reference to a classical piece is still quite apparent, but I think she's done a better job of integrating it into her own material and making something new. Your opinion may vary of course once you hear everything.
Well, obviously I tend to prefer a more edgy and less 'girlish' Tori Amos, and the album seems to contain some of that ...
The ECM recordings by András Schiff of Schubert are among my favorites. He has begun using period keyboards in some of his more recent recording, Beethoven's Diabelli Variations is wonderful.
As is this Schubert recording.
Schubert | Sonatas & Impromptus
Schubert's late works on his Brodmann fortepiano
(https://reviews.azureedge.net/gramophone/media-thumbnails/schiff_schubert.jpg)
Quote from: San Antone on February 09, 2022, 01:14:04 PM
The ECM recordings by András Schiff of Schubert are among my favorites. He has begun using period keyboards in some of his more recent recording, Beethoven's Diabelli Variations is wonderful.
As is this Schubert recording.
Schubert | Sonatas & Impromptus
Schubert's late works on his Brodmann fortepiano
(https://reviews.azureedge.net/gramophone/media-thumbnails/schiff_schubert.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91nEMLZCFiL._SL1400_.jpg)
Hi
San Antone - unaware that Schiff was doing these works on fortepiano, and excited - I have the box of Uchida on modern piano which I like and Badura-Skoda on his 'original' FPs which does not thrill me - see that Schiff that put out two 2-CD recordings (other inserted above), a couple more may be a completion? Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on February 09, 2022, 02:06:55 PM
Hi San Antone - unaware that Schiff was doing these works on fortepiano, and excited - I have the box of Uchida on modern piano which I like and Badura-Skoda on his 'original' FPs which does not thrill me - see that Schiff that put out two 2-CD recordings (other inserted above), a couple more may be a completion? Dave :)
It is very possible that Schiff will release a third volume of Schubert works, I would certainly welcome one.
Could fans of Brendel's Schubert please tell me how the earlier, analog recordings for Philips compare to his later, digital ones for Philips?
Does anyone here know whether the 12 CD box set of Vermeulen has the same notes and documentation as the original 2 CD sets? I would like to get this cycle but would be a little disappointed if the box has a bare-bones booklet as so many seem to.
Quote from: Hans Holbein on October 22, 2022, 09:06:16 PM
Does anyone here know whether the 12 CD box set of Vermeulen has the same notes and documentation as the original 2 CD sets? I would like to get this cycle but would be a little disappointed if the box has a bare-bones booklet as so many seem to.
It's a bare bones booklet.
Impromptus, D899 & D935 (described below) - who are your current favorites?
Recently, I acquired the Lucchesini CD of these works (see below) and was impressed by a listen and the excellent reviews (attached) - my other recordings are Orkis & Vermuelen on fortepianos and the Uchida box - did a comparison this afternoon (sans Uchida) and although a BIG period instrument fan, I had more aural enjoyment from Andrea on modern piano (must do a similar A:B w/ Mitsuko) - SO, just wondering if others have been 'touched' my more recent productions of these oft recorded works? Thanks - Dave :)
QuoteFranz Schubert's Impromptus are a series of eight pieces for solo piano composed in 1827. They were published in two sets of four each: the first two pieces in the first set were published in the composer's lifetime as Op. 90; the second set was published posthumously as Op. 142 in 1839. The third and fourth pieces in the first set were published in 1857. The two sets are now catalogued as D. 899 and D. 935 respectively. They are considered to be among the most important examples of this popular early 19th-century genre.
Three other unnamed piano compositions (D. 946), written in May 1828, a few months before the composer's death, are known as both "Impromptus" and Klavierstücke. The Impromptus are often considered companion pieces to the Six moments musicaux, and are often recorded together.
It has been said that Schubert was deeply influenced in writing these pieces by the Impromptus, Op. 7 (1822) of Jan Václav Voříšek and by the music of Voříšek's teacher Václav Tomášek. (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impromptus_(Schubert)))
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61f5mJp95zL._SX425_.jpg) (https://www.etcetera-records.com/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/4e/36/4e36f8fe-beac-4131-8ee2-d5f482c249a3/ktc_1336.jpg__1080x980_q85_crop_subsampling-2.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41LPq4CLPCL.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51Jz0y0O2sL._UX358_FMwebp_QL85_.jpg)
Lucchesini's set is the current century go to for me for complete sets. Andras Schiff's HIP ECM recordings, spread across two twofers, is the HIP set for me. Schiff's HIP Schubert is the best HIP Schubert I've heard.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61n1RTxQmvL._SL500_.jpg)
Having adored his Beethoven sonatas, I had high hopes for Lucchesini's Schubert impromptus, but I failed to connect with them. Pires remains my favorite, though I also like Kempff and Lupu's.
Quote from: Todd on February 24, 2023, 01:41:22 PMLucchesini's set is the current century go to for me for complete sets. Andras Schiff's HIP ECM recordings, spread across two twofers, is the HIP set for me. Schiff's HIP Schubert is the best HIP Schubert I've heard.
Thanks
Todd - agree completely w/ Lucchesini - will need to hear Schiff for sure! Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on February 24, 2023, 01:16:01 PMImpromptus, D899 & D935 (described below) - who are your current favorites?
Recently, I acquired the Lucchesini CD of these works (see below) and was impressed by a listen and the excellent reviews (attached) - my other recordings are Orkis & Vermuelen on fortepianos and the Uchida box - did a comparison this afternoon (sans Uchida) and although a BIG period instrument fan, I had more aural enjoyment from Andrea on modern piano (must do a similar A:B w/ Mitsuko) - SO, just wondering if others have been 'touched' my more recent productions of these oft recorded works? Thanks - Dave :)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61f5mJp95zL._SX425_.jpg) (https://www.etcetera-records.com/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/4e/36/4e36f8fe-beac-4131-8ee2-d5f482c249a3/ktc_1336.jpg__1080x980_q85_crop_subsampling-2.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41LPq4CLPCL.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51Jz0y0O2sL._UX358_FMwebp_QL85_.jpg)
Have you heard Lupu? I think it would be my top pick for commercially available complete surveys of op 90 and op 142 with good sound. I like Lupu's reticence and introspectiveness, the way he avoids all swagger. I also like his touch, the lyricism and delicacy.
In this music, it's op 142/1 which is my favourite, and there Demidenko is also good I think - but as far as I can see he has never recorded op 90.
Quote from: George on February 24, 2023, 02:29:54 PM(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61n1RTxQmvL._SL500_.jpg)
Seconded. A magnificent journey, indeed.
(https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/61fa198/2147483647/strip/true/crop/500x500+0+0/resize/1760x1760!/format/webp/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnpr-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Flegacy%2Fsites%2Fwcrb%2Ffiles%2F201701%2Flars_vogt_schubert_album_artwork_500x500.jpg)
This is the best Op. 90/1 I've ever listened to. Vogt plays it in a truly improvisatory manner, giving the vivid impression that the music is being created on the spot, out of nothing. Amazing.
Not a complete set but highly recommended. The other works are played equally fine. Vogt's untimely death (and Angelich's, for that matter) was a tragic loss.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/W/MEDIAX_792452-T1/images/I/51WoASbA+zL._SL500_.jpg)
What do folks think of this set?
I already have Schnabel, Kempff, Brendel, Barenboim, Richter, Lupu and Arrau in the sonatas.
I didn't know it was even close to complete! I have 1 or 2 Teldec discs with Leonskaja (w/ D 959, I think), the were highly regarded and are very good but I am not sure if it will add that much to what you have. Maybe in the earlier pieces. Leonskaja seems about in the middle of Richter and Lupu, not as extreme as Richter but slowish, grand scale and "Russian" and not quite as lyrical als Lupu. Whatever I mean with that.
I am not such a nut about these sonatas but the discs I heard didn't make me rush to get the rest although they are very good.
Quote from: George on December 10, 2023, 07:23:28 PM(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/W/MEDIAX_792452-T1/images/I/51WoASbA+zL._SL500_.jpg)
What do folks think of this set?
I already have Schnabel, Kempff, Brendel, Barenboim, Richter, Lupu and Arrau in the sonatas.
I have the earlier, six-disc set of Teldec recordings. I do not know what the interpretive differences between those recordings and these Warner recordings may be, but assuming they are similar, her Schubert is good. It will sound different enough from the names on the list to warrant purchase. I mean, I'd probably see if you can find Dalberto's set cheap, or maybe consider Zacharias, but for like twenty bucks, why worry?
I assumed that there was overlap with the older set (I was above referring to the 80s/90s Teldec recordings), or did she really re-record all of the 7? sonatas she had done earlier? It seems like that but I not quite sure from the minimal information on the backcover. In any case there is another box with these older recordings (last 5 + D 568 + 664) + Trout, Impromptus...
The Teldec set stroke me as uncompromisingly grim and dour --- and approach that imo doesn't suit Schubert at all.
Quote from: Jo498 on December 11, 2023, 07:45:15 AMI assumed that there was overlap with the older set (I was above referring to the 80s/90s Teldec recordings), or did she really re-record all of the 7? sonatas she had done earlier? It seems like that but I not quite sure from the minimal information on the backcover. In any case there is another box with these older recordings (last 5 + D 568 + 664) + Trout, Impromptus...
From a Gramophone review of Leonskaja's Complete Schubert Sonata set on Warner:
"No question about it, Leonskaja's Schubert on Warner (her Schubert recordings for Teldec are completely different) should provide you with a lifetime's worth of musical nourishment, and the sound, now as before, is superb."
I confirmed this morning that they are different recordings using a download source and Spotify (the timings are different.)