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The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: Scarpia on January 28, 2010, 09:42:27 AM

Title: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Scarpia on January 28, 2010, 09:42:27 AM

My favorites at the moment are Tipo (EMI) and Arrau (Philips) with good marks for Ashkenazy.

The interesting thing about these works, in my view, is that atmosphere is more important than pyrotechnics.  Technical brilliance is irrelevant, except to the extent that it makes the performance sound effortless.

Tipo is my current favorite because of the way she indulges herself in a way that seems free and playful without becoming "self-indulgent" in the pejorative sense.  And how can anyone fault Arrau's aristocratic sentiment here?

Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: George on January 28, 2010, 12:57:07 PM
You've got my two favorites there for sure, Scarpia. Arrau's set was my first and I love the way every phrase, every note, is handled with exquisite care. Tipo's set is great too. I can't say anything specific, as I don't know it as well as the Arrau, but I certainly plan to hear it more. In fact, I think that many pianists play these works well, I wonder if it's because they are beloved by pianists? Pires has a very nice, if somewhat "big" way with them, perhaps great Nocturnes to enjoy at dusk. Moravec's classic set features his gorgeous tone and his deep sensitivity. Rubinstein's two mono sets are wonderful, with the earliest one being my preferred of the two. Wasowski is not as good here as he is with the Mazurkas, but he's still among the better ones that I have heard. Like you, I enjoy Ashkenazy's, but find that others bring more to these works.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Scarpia on January 28, 2010, 01:08:17 PM
You've got my two favorites there for sure, Scarpia. Arrau's set was my first and I love the way every phrase, every note, is handled with exquisite care. Tipo's set is great too. I can't say anything specific, as I don't know it as well as the Arrau, but I certainly plan to hear it more. In fact, I think that many pianists play these works well, I wonder if it's because they are beloved by pianists? Pires has a very nice, if somewhat "big" way with them, perhaps great Nocturnes to enjoy at dusk. Moravec's classic set features his gorgeous tone and his deep sensitivity. Rubinstein's two mono sets are wonderful, with the earliest one being my preferred of the two. Wasowski is not as good here as he is with the Mazurkas, but he's still among the better ones that I have heard. Like you, I enjoy Ashkenazy's, but find that others bring more to these works.

The one set of Nocturne's that I decidedly didn't like was Barenboim's set on DG, which I would say took them too seriously.  To my mind, they should be light, perhaps tinged with a bit of darkness, but not solemn. 
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: George on January 28, 2010, 01:14:16 PM
The one set of Nocturne's that I decidedly didn't like was Barenboim's set on DG, which I would say took them too seriously.  To my mind, they should be light, perhaps tinged with a bit of darkness, but not solemn.

Yeah, I agree, solemn doesn't work here. I like my Nocturnes to be dark, mysterious - even sexy.  8)

Haven't heard the Barenboim set, though I almost picked it up a few times. I think over a dozen sets is enough, even though the Nocturnes are some of my favorite piano works, definitely desert island material.

Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Mandryka on January 28, 2010, 02:35:26 PM
To hear how great these pieces can be I think you have to listen to Cortot, especially in Op 27/1.

Also very good --  Sofronitsky, Pletnev, Ignaz Friedman, Leo Sirota and Claudio Arrau live .

No sets there, I am afraid.

Of the complete sets I know, the one  which has given me most pleasure is Pollini's (maybe the best -- you can hear the Rubinstein influence but he is more dramatic and less detached  than Rubinstein's post war recordings, and so for me superior.)

I also think there are many good things in Samson Francois's set.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Scarpia on January 28, 2010, 02:50:21 PM
To hear how great these pieces can be I think you have to listen to Cortot, especially in Op 27/1.

Also very good --  Sofronitsky, Pletnev, Ignaz Friedman, Leo Sirota and Claudio Arrau live .

No sets there, I am afraid.

Of the complete sets I know, the one  which has given me most pleasure is Pollini's (maybe the best -- you can hear the Rubinstein influence but he is more dramatic and less detached  than Rubinstein's post war recordings, and so for me superior.)

I also think there are many good things in Samson Francois's set.

Wow, I didn't realize Pollini had done the Nocturnes, sound very very good in the brief excepts.   :(
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Bunny on January 28, 2010, 02:51:10 PM
Yeah, I agree, solemn doesn't work here. I like my Nocturnes to be dark, mysterious - even sexy.  8)

Haven't heard the Barenboim set, though I almost picked it up a few times. I think over a dozen sets is enough, even though the Nocturnes are some of my favorite piano works, definitely desert island material.



I was able to pick up the Complete Nocturnes by Pascal Amoyel and I was so glad that I did.  It's definitely in the top tier.  If you want sexy, night dark nocturnes, then these are definitely for you. They stand up against the best -- and I like them better than Pollini, as they are so much more sensual.  I bought them from Amazon France, but they are also available as downloads from Amazon and Itunes, albeit with the wrong cover art.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410TAYZD8DL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Bunny on January 28, 2010, 02:53:44 PM
Wow, I didn't realize Pollini had done the Nocturnes, sound very very good in the brief excepts.   :(

You can still pick them up at Yourmusic.com for $13.98 (shipping included but tax if applicable is extra).
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513CK73C2DL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: George on January 28, 2010, 02:57:49 PM
I was able to pick up the Complete Nocturnes by Pascal Amoyel and I was so glad that I did.  It's definitely in the top tier.  If you want sexy, night dark nocturnes, then these are definitely for you. They stand up against the best -- and I like them better than Pollini, as they are so much more sensual.  I bought them from Amazon France, but they are also available as downloads from Amazon and Itunes,

Thanks Bunny! I'll keep an eye out for that set. Someone else (or was it you?) posted that set over on the Chopin thread.

Quote
albeit with the wrong cover art.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410TAYZD8DL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I know, right? He looks like the dude I bought weed from in high school.  8)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Bunny on January 28, 2010, 10:30:06 PM

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410TAYZD8DL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I know, right? He looks like the dude I bought weed from in high school.  8)

Come to think of it, I think he is the dude you scored the weed from.   ;)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Holden on January 29, 2010, 12:37:04 AM
OK, I haven't heard Amoyal or Tipo but I have heard Pollini, Arrau and Pires. I still go back to Moravec and Rubinstein in the Nocturnes for one very simple reason.

This is music that is so well composed that it doesn't require an interpreter. Pollini, Arrau and Pires tend to try and add things to the music that isn't there. Each in their own way try to add more rubato/play around with the tempo/look for phrasing that isn't anywhere in the music that Chopin wrote.

Both Moravec and Rubinstein play the music in a perfectly natural way and have a way with the phrasing that is so essentially Chopin. Moravec tends to the darker side of many of the Nocturnes compared to Rubinstein's warmer but still passionate approach. Ahskenazy also let's the music flow around it's own courses.

My only recommendations would be Ashkenazy, Moravec and Rubinstein - take your choice.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Todd on January 29, 2010, 08:17:35 AM
The interesting thing about these works, in my view, is that atmosphere is more important than pyrotechnics.



I must agree here.  For me, I confess a certain soft spot for Moravec's recording, and Ashkenazy is quite good.  Over the past few years, Yukio Yokoyama's set has been growing one me.  He tends to be somewhat superficial in his playing, and he tends to emphasize flash, but here his superificiality works, and he's a also a bit cool, and the flash is restrained.  Curiously good.  I'm still on the fence about Pollini.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Herman on January 29, 2010, 09:46:25 AM
To my mind, they should be light, perhaps tinged with a bit of darkness, but not solemn.

It's interesting you say this, because the Arrau studio recording doesn't work for me in many instances, because it's too solemn and contrived. From Op 48 onwards this works better. Thee are a couple of live recordings (by Arrau) of single pieces that are just terrific.

I like Tipo (though again, not all of them). Pires is unbearable.

I like the various Rubinstein recorings, and I like the Moravec too.

Unfortunately I am not familiar with pre-war nocturne recordings by Cortot. As it happens I listened to two different Preludes cycles of Cortot's today, and I am again stunned by the kind of music this man makes.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Drasko on January 29, 2010, 09:54:48 AM
Unfortunately I am not familiar with pre-war nocturne recordings by Cortot.

Are there any?
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: George on January 29, 2010, 09:55:11 AM
Unfortunately I am not familiar with pre-war nocturne recordings by Cortot.

They are available on Naxos, coupled with the Ballades.

Quote
As it happens I listened to two different Preludes cycles of Cortot's today, and I am again stunned by the kind of music this man makes.

I absolutely agree.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Mandryka on January 29, 2010, 10:43:21 AM


Unfortunately I am not familiar with pre-war nocturne recordings by Cortot. As it happens I listened to two different Preludes cycles of Cortot's today, and I am again stunned by the kind of music this man makes.

Glad you are enjoying Cortot's Chopin, Herman. Finally there's something we both like.

When I mentioned his nocturnes, I actually had the post war recordings in mind. Those on EMI mainly, but also there is an APR  disc with some previously unreleased recordings of Opus 55/2. That APR disc is extremely valuable I think -- not just for the Chopin, but also because, I would say, it contains his best Kinderzenen .

Those recordings give the lie to the idea that Cortot was unable to produce great work after the war.

Are there any?

I think he only recorded Op 9/2 before the war.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Mandryka on January 29, 2010, 10:53:46 AM
The interesting thing about these works, in my view, is that atmosphere is more important than pyrotechnics. 

Of course, pyrotechnics is a bit of a loaded word, but I suspect we disagree very fundamentally.

For me, some of  these works are very dramatic. Full of fireworks, in fact. That's what Cortot and Sofronitsky and Pollini bring.

Even Moravec finds fireworks in Op 27/1.

The Arrau studio set fails in this respect sometimes, most gravely in Op 62/1. But Arrau's live Op 62 /1 on Ermitage is full of intense drama -- and IMO is one of the most interesting nocturne performances on record.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Mandryka on January 29, 2010, 10:58:13 AM
I still go back to Moravec and Rubinstein .



One too sentimental. The other too dry -- at least if you mean the post war recordings.

To me those two are extremes of different traditions of nocturne playing. You're lucky to be able to enjoy both.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Herman on January 29, 2010, 10:59:39 AM
The Arrau studio set fails in this respect sometimes, most gravely in Op 62/1. But Arrau's live Op 62 /1 on Ermitage is full of intense drama -- and IMO is one of the most interesting nocturne performances on record.

QFT
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: (: premont :) on January 29, 2010, 11:05:21 AM
Pires is unbearable.

Why?
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: George on January 29, 2010, 11:09:35 AM
Unfortunately I am not familiar with pre-war nocturne recordings by Cortot.

Are there any?

I found this on Naxos's website, but can't view the PDF (rear of CD) that shows the details about the Nocturnes within. http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.111245 I am at work or could just read it off the CD. Can someone view the PDF and post the details about the years of those Nocturne performances?
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Mandryka on January 29, 2010, 11:16:22 AM
I found this on Naxos's website, but can't view the PDF (rear of CD) that shows the details about the Nocturnes within. http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.111245 I am at work or could just read it off the CD. Can someone view the PDF and post the details about the years of those Nocturne performances?

It says that the only pre-war nocturne is Op 9/2.

This seems to be a good Cortot  discography :


http://fischer.hosting.paran.com/music/Cortot/discography-cortot.htm#Nocturnes
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Herman on January 30, 2010, 05:32:57 AM
I generally try to avoid using the word 'hysterical' in connection with women, but that's the impression I got. I had the set for a year and then dumped it. To me it sounded like she took the concept 'operatic' but left out the critical 'bel canto' part.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Scarpia on January 30, 2010, 07:36:42 AM
I generally try to avoid using the word 'hysterical' in connection with women, but that's the impression I got. I had the set for a year and then dumped it. To me it sounded like she took the concept 'operatic' but left out the critical 'bel canto' part.

Ok, now we know that someone was hysterical, but we don't know who.   ???
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Drasko on January 30, 2010, 08:02:45 AM
Pires fits the description closest.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Marc on January 30, 2010, 08:07:25 AM
I generally try to avoid using the word 'hysterical' in connection with women, but that's the impression I got. I had the set for a year and then dumped it. To me it sounded like she took the concept 'operatic' but left out the critical 'bel canto' part.

Listen to the purity and clarity of Livia Rév's singing tone, and maybe you will love them girlz again. ;D
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Coopmv on January 30, 2010, 08:29:09 AM
Pires fits the description closest.

Maria Joao Pires made an excellent DG recording on Nocturnes. I have played the set a number of times since I bought it a few months ago.  I just wonder when Helene Grimaud will try her hands on these works ...
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 30, 2010, 02:54:39 PM
Thought that I'd like to join this thread -  :D

Moravec has been a favorite of mine for a number of years, but I certainly need to try others (and have culled out several collections in the past).

Earl Wild is my most recent addition - owned nothing by him until his recent death stimulated my interest - also have his Piano Transcriptions coming 'in the mail', which was the recipient of a Grammy Award in 1997.  So, any comments on this performance - so far, I'm enjoying his playing and interpretations of the Chopin works, rather subdued and nocturnal (like him rowing the canoe in the 'corny' cover art).   :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/ChopinEarlWild/767495539_SzKPj-O.jpg)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Herman on January 31, 2010, 01:40:23 AM
Maria Joao Pires made an excellent DG recording on Nocturnes. I have played the set a number of times since I bought it a few months ago.  I just wonder when Helene Grimaud will try her hands on these works ...

So you think Pires is female, Grimaud is too, so she ought to record the same stuff? That's subtle.

As I tried to explain above, after listening to "the set a number of times" I thought the Pires recording of the Nocturnes is problematic and is not up to the competition. However I'm glad if you think it's "excellent,' so Pires' effort has not been totally in vain.

Grimaud, not exactly known for her Chopin, might up the hysterics (and loud) ante, indeed. Let's hope she bides her time, though.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Mandryka on January 31, 2010, 02:10:19 AM
One old fashioned pianist who I feel rather ambivalent about in these nocturnes is Leopold Godowsky.

I think that there is a very special, rather  disarming, straightforwardness and purity about the approach.

What I am not convinced about is that there's enough variety in his style. I always start out by being excited about his nocturnes, but after two or three, I start to grow bored.

But that's maybe a bit philistine -- Godowsky's nocturnes are worth exploring I think.

BTW, I also played some by Wasowsky -- too sentimental for me, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Todd on February 11, 2010, 01:12:01 PM
Being a Chopin year, there are going to be new recordings of the Nocturnes, and it looks like Yundi Li moved over to EMI and recorded them.  The set will be out in April.  Of more interest for me, Nelson Freire has also recorded them, and that set will be out in March. 
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: George on February 11, 2010, 02:00:44 PM
Being a Chopin year, there are going to be new recordings of the Nocturnes, and it looks like Yundi Li moved over to EMI and recorded them.  The set will be out in April.  Of more interest for me, Nelson Freire has also recorded them, and that set will be out in March.

Yes, that Freire set should be nice.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: samuel on February 12, 2010, 09:10:38 AM
An extremely underrated set is Elisabeth Leonskaja's on Teldec, her handling of the transitions from the gentler passages to the stormier ones is quite remarkable.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: George on February 12, 2010, 09:56:59 AM
(http://www.hbdirect.com/coverm/66/511966.jpg)

After owning and thoroughly enjoying a copy of this set for a few years, I finally found a legit copy to buy.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: MichaelRabin on March 30, 2010, 06:20:12 AM
What is the preferred (i.e. best) set of these pieces? Arrau on Philips, Rubinstein on Naxos or the Moravec on Nonesuch? Or any others that you might like? Your musical and audio (sound) reasons please? Thanks.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: George on March 30, 2010, 06:36:45 AM
What is the preferred (i.e. best) set of these pieces? Arrau on Philips, Rubinstein on Naxos or the Moravec on Nonesuch?

Yes.  ;D

Quote
Or any others that you might like? Your musical and audio (sound) reasons please? Thanks.

Arrau remains my favorite. His indulgent, syrupy readings delight me every time I hear them. The sound is very good too. I should add that Arrau though veryhighly of the Nocturnes and it shows in his interpretations.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Scarpia on March 30, 2010, 08:00:54 AM
I was getting major Deja vu, then I realized (duh) I had started the recent thread myself.   You will find discussion related to your query here:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15721.0.html

Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Mandryka on March 30, 2010, 08:10:17 AM
It’s impossible to answer the question.

You can play these pieces in so many different ways.

I think it would be foolish to say that Weissenberg is better than Rubinstein, or that Rubinstein is better than Samson François, or that Samson François is better than Pollini.

These are all highly musical, well recorded, personal, intense performances. Despite their differences, none of them can be excluded for fundamental reasons.

They are incommensurables – and others would no doubt add others to the list.

All Weissenberg, Rubinstein, François, Pollini et al. have in common is a score to respond to – a score which profoundly underdetermines the performance.

My best advice is to listen to a selection of each of the above on youtube, see which tickles your fancy, and buy the CDs.

Alternatively say more about what you are looking for in terms of style – dreamy romantic, dramatic, objective, sentimental . . . and maybe someone can make some suggestions.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: George on March 30, 2010, 08:31:21 AM
Alternatively say more about what you are looking for in terms of style – dreamy romantic, dramatic, objective, sentimental . . . and maybe someone can make some suggestions.

Freudian slip?  ;D

BTW, thanks very much for your post. I consider myself grateful to be able to correspond with such an open minded, mature individual. 
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Ten thumbs on March 31, 2010, 04:10:04 AM

Alternatively say more about what you are looking for in terms of style – dreamy romantic, dramatic, objective, sentimental . . . and maybe someone can make some suggestions.
I would say that it is highly unsatisfactory to play all of the nocturnes in the same style, whatever that may be. For instance there is a world of difference between the light and frisky Op55.1 and the expansive but occasionally dreamy Op55.2. I would expect a good pianist to bring out these differences.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Henk on August 29, 2010, 08:41:03 AM
Two new sets on the market:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51LcbXjCPXL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41a5xK%2Bof6L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

I listened to samples of Chaplin. I don't like, it lacks depth and is quite monotone, although it has that typical atmosphere that suites the Nocturnes. It sound to me a bit of a bad copy of Arrau's version.

The recording by Perez is imo great. It's a modern interpretation, very elegant and has depth. I prefer it even above Arrau. I prefer more light interpretations, without losing depth.

Henk
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Verena on August 29, 2010, 08:47:03 AM
Quote
The recording by Perez is imo great. It's a modern interpretation, very elegant and has depth. I prefer it even above Arrau. I prefer more light interpretations, without losing depth.

Good to hear, have to investigate. Thanks.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Antoine Marchand on August 29, 2010, 09:26:45 AM
Two new sets on the market:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51LcbXjCPXL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

I listened to samples of Chaplin. I don't like, it lacks depth and is quite monotone, although it has that typical atmosphere that suites the Nocturnes. It sound to me a bit of a bad copy of Arrau's version.

The recording by Perez is imo great. It's a modern interpretation, very elegant and has depth. I prefer it even above Arrau. I prefer more light interpretations, without losing depth.

Henk

Hi, Henk. I don't know that new version by Luis Fernando Pérez (incomplete, apparently), but some weeks ago I bought and listened to François Chaplin, almost by chance because I was searching his Debussy set, which has been highly praised in the past.

IMO his Chopin is a highly rewarding interpretation, quite on the slow side, as you have observed. My only quibble about it is the closely miked recorded sound and some excessive basses on the Yamaha piano used there; but I liked Chaplin's general conception/sensibility and the order in which the Nocturnes are presented.

Anyway, I prefer not to compare his version with Arrau, my absolute favorite in the Nocturnes.

Here a video on YouTube for the people interested in Chaplin:

 
http://www.youtube.com/v/pLcgQBIDvII
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Henk on August 29, 2010, 09:39:23 AM
EDIT

Hi, Henk. I don't know that new version by Luis Fernando Pérez (incomplete, apparently), but some weeks ago I bought and listened to François Chaplin, almost by chance because I was searching his Debussy set, which has been highly praised in the past.

IMO his Chopin is a highly rewarding interpretation, quite on the slow side, as you have observed. My only quibble about it is the closely miked recorded sound and some excessive basses on the Yamaha piano used there; but I liked Chaplin's general conception/sensibility and the order in which the Nocturnes are presented.

Anyway, I would prefer don't compare his version with Arrau, my absolute favorite in the Nocturnes.

Here a video on YouTube for the people interested in Chaplin:

 
http://www.youtube.com/v/pLcgQBIDvII

Antoine, I checked the video. I'm still not impressed. It lacks depth for me, despite (not because of) the slowness. Maybe just a matter of taste. Also I don't prefer slow performances, because it quickly sounds too serious to me.

The comparison with Arrau can not be made, I agree. But why playing so slow and serious, that doesn't serve the music. It seems to me that performers who do so, think that the best interpretation can only be the most serious interpretation. To say it blandly: Chaplin wants to overpower other versions of the Nocturnes. But with Chaplin's version the Nocturnes become a monotone mass of music.

The recording by Perez is Vol. I.

Henk
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Antoine Marchand on August 29, 2010, 10:09:08 AM
Maybe just a matter of taste.

Of course! As the vast majority of our discussions on this board.  :)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Herman on August 29, 2010, 11:16:03 PM
EDIT

Antoine, I checked the video. I'm still not impressed. It lacks depth for me, despite (not because of) the slowness. Maybe just a matter of taste. Also I don't prefer slow performances, because it quickly sounds too serious to me.



Hello? Why do you call this "slow"? It isn't slow at all, by any standards I know. Certainly Arrau would be slow in comparison.

One could say that Chaplin's toucher (or whatever) isn't particularly subtle, although the hall acoustics and the recording device may play a part in this, but as far as tempo is concerned it is positively on the nimble side.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Holden on August 30, 2010, 12:14:30 AM
Hello? Why do you call this "slow"? It isn't slow at all, by any standards I know. Certainly Arrau would be slow in comparison.

One could say that Chaplin's toucher (or whatever) isn't particularly subtle, although the hall acoustics and the recording device may play a part in this, but as far as tempo is concerned it is positively on the nimble side.

You are being generous Herman. There is a natural flow that all great Chopin interpreters achieve when playing this composer. I don't hear or feel the flow from Chaplin, It's extremely ordinary playing IMO.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Antoine Marchand on August 30, 2010, 08:41:56 AM
You are being generous Herman. There is a natural flow that all great Chopin interpreters achieve when playing this composer. I don't hear or feel the flow from Chaplin, It's extremely ordinary playing IMO.

I disagree with you, but I am probably “biased” by the repeated listen of the complete set. Anyway, here a very favorable review on Fanfare:

Quote

CHOPIN Nocturnes • François Chaplin (pn) • ZIG-ZAG 100203.2 (2 CDs: 110:58)

François Chaplin is a pianist who is new to me, although he has been recording for more than a decade. He is a professor at the Conservatoire de Rayonnement Régional in Versailles. His most prominent teacher was the estimable Jean-Claude Pennetier. Chaplin won prizes in two prominent piano competitions, but there has been no breakthrough event along his path leading to a major career. Rather, he is one of those pianists who has slowly built up esteem, especially through recordings. One such project was the complete piano music of Debussy, which seems like superb preparation for tackling Chopin’s nocturnes, so similar are their sonic orbits. On the basis of this Chopin album, I would say that Chaplin has reached an artistic peak.

Chaplin possesses a rich, full tone, which he deploys with a great deal of subtlety. On the surface, his readings of the nocturnes remind me of Claudio Arrau’s in their tonal sumptuousness. This aspect of the recording is enhanced by the use of a beautiful Yamaha piano, spaciously recorded in a Paris church. The Yamaha produces a gorgeous tonal blend throughout its frequency range, captured truthfully by the recorded sound. Chaplin’s feeling for the architecture of the nocturnes is profound. In the ternary pieces, one never has the sense that any section is out of proportion to the others. Here is highly sophisticated playing, yet the overall interpretive effect is to produce readings that are central in the works’ performance traditions. Nothing exotic happens, yet to paraphrase Charles Rosen, Chaplin accomplishes everything while appearing not to do anything remarkable at all.

Chaplin has decided not to play the nocturnes in their published order. He keeps sets of the nocturnes together by opus number, but otherwise he arranges them, in his words, “to emphasize the diversity and modernity of the nocturnes.” I find his ordering highly successful. Chaplin starts with op. 48/1, choosing a slow and stately tempo for the beginning with a pronounced bass. The B section has suitable grandeur. In op. 15/1, Chaplin’s pedaling gives the A section an angelic quality. For op. 15/3, he employs subtle hesitations in his phrasing of the opening melody, giving it the rhythmic feel of a mazurka. Op. 27/2 receives a ravishing, inward performance. The darkness of the three posthumous nocturnes is mirrored in Chaplin’s tonal shadings. Op. 32/2, as befits a selection from Les Sylphides, comes off as an ethereal yet passionate dance.

Op. 55/2 has a harp-like accompaniment in the left hand, accentuated tonally by a judicious use of pedal. Op. 37/1 has an unusually Polish aura, especially in the handling of its ornamentation. The delicacy in the performance of op. 9/1 reminds me of Guiomar Novaes’s interpretation. The program ends with op. 62, presumably Chopin’s last nocturnes. Here, in Chaplin’s words, “the accommodation of the bel canto spirit to the keyboard reaches a fabulous peak.” Indeed, op. 62/1 unfolds in large part like a long aria. Op. 62/2 has an almost orchestral variety of color.

I found this recording improved in power and nuance on each repeated hearing. With sets of the nocturnes available from such great figures as Rubinstein and Arrau, it may seem presumptuous to recommend a set by someone with the comparatively low profile of François Chaplin. Yet I think I honestly can say that I rarely have enjoyed these pieces so much, while the sound engineering is something to rejoice in. Clearly we need to hear more from François Chaplin, so compelling is his artistry.

FANFARE: Dave Saemann
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 30, 2010, 09:00:48 AM
Michele Boegner's performances on an 1836 Pleyel piano is apparently being offered now as a 2-CD 'discount' package by Calliope (found the image below of their website) - not sure about the pricing or the availability at the moment; I've listened to a number of audio snippets and several complete tracks - a favorite of Brian who brought my attention to this offering a while back.

So, if anyone knows of a seller or source then please respond - Calliope does not seem to offer a purchase option on their website HERE (http://www.calliope.tm.fr/pages/catalogue/catalogue_oeuvre.php?id=3534) -  :)

(http://www.calliope.tm.fr/_upload/ressources/disques/3281.2.jpg)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: George on August 30, 2010, 09:24:18 AM
Hi Dave!

According to French amazon, looks like that set was released 5 years ago, but currently unavailable:

http://www.amazon.fr/Int%C3%A9grale-Nocturnes-Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric-Mich%C3%A8le-Boegner/dp/B0007OQBYI/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1283192478&sr=8-5

No listing at MDT.  :-\
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 30, 2010, 09:33:30 AM
Hi Dave!

According to French amazon, looks like that set was released 5 years ago, but currently unavailable:

http://www.amazon.fr/Int%C3%A9grale-Nocturnes-Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric-Mich%C3%A8le-Boegner/dp/B0007OQBYI/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1283192478&sr=8-5

No listing at MDT.  :-\

Hello George - thanks for the information above; suspect the set is just OOP; I checked a half dozen sites this morning, both in the USA & across the pond - just found the older release for $68 on Amazon USA.

Well, will keep on my 'wish list' - also sent Calliope an e-mail about availability but have no idea yet if I'll get a response - Dave  :)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Verena on September 06, 2010, 01:52:32 PM
Two new sets on the market:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51LcbXjCPXL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41a5xK%2Bof6L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

I listened to samples of Chaplin. I don't like, it lacks depth and is quite monotone, although it has that typical atmosphere that suites the Nocturnes. It sound to me a bit of a bad copy of Arrau's version.

The recording by Perez is imo great. It's a modern interpretation, very elegant and has depth. I prefer it even above Arrau. I prefer more light interpretations, without losing depth.

Henk

Just downloaded the Perez from emusic - beautiful!!
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 08, 2010, 04:10:22 PM
Just left a post in the 'listening thread' - enthralled w/ the recording below - could not find the original offerings from Calliope for a decent price; the piano sound is different from a modern grand - apparently the key action was dependent on complete release of the key to repeat a note, plus the 'liner notes' said that Chopin felt that the pedal response was quite sensitive (although he seem to prefer the Pleyel pianos when in 'good form' - from the liner notes which were also scanned in this offering).  Dave  :)

Quote
Chopin - Nocturnes played by Michele Boegner on an original 1836 Pleyel piano restored by Anthony Sidey of Paris - an applauded recommendation from Brian - I've been trying to purchase the original CDs w/o success, so was able (w/ the help of one of my radiology residents) to obtain a MP3 disc (320 kbps) of these recordings - such a nice contrast to the versions I own on 'modern' piano - need to do some comparisons; the sound production is a little 'noisy' probably due in part to the piano (pedal, soundboard, etc.) and possibly the engineering - not sure 'where' these were recorded but there is a low rumbling sound on the tracks - this is a privately owned piano, so the location may not have been ideal (liner notes were available but of little help) -  :D


(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/ChopinBoegner1/998361071_TiwW5-O.jpg)

Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich on September 23, 2012, 03:22:35 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51LcbXjCPXL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
I love this one, it's rather dark sounding (I'm not a piano expert, so my question is, is it because he uses the pedals more? Or is it the piano?) which goes pretty well with the nocturnes - but HE IS HUMMING pretty often, which is disturbing.
Except Chopin Nocturnes, I'm not knowing anything else in the piano genre btw.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Lisztianwagner on September 23, 2012, 04:26:07 AM
Chopin's Nocturnes are certainly among the most beautiful piano pieces I've ever heard; extremetely elegant, refined music which at the same time is so passionate and intense, with a poetical touch of melancholy. My favourite set is the Ashkenazy; after that, the Rubinstein, the Barenboim and the Pollini. Besides showing a wonderful technique and an excellent virtuosity, Ashkenazy really seems to be able to capture the deep mood of these works, the atmosphere he creates is absolutely thrilling.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 23, 2012, 03:46:15 PM
BOY! A tread revived after 2 years w/ the last post left by me on a fortepiano recording that received NO responses? 

BUT, my current modern versions are w/ Moravec & Ohlsson (in a complete box) - have always enjoyed the Moravec - really like these Chopin compositions; however, for those who want some historic perspective, please explore John Field's Nocturnes which likely influenced Chopin's composing in this genre - :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-CBrH6ch/0/O/ChopinNoctures.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-TpbmVwD/0/O/Chopin-Ohlsson.jpg)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: johndoe21ro on September 23, 2012, 09:22:24 PM
I urge you not to make any bold statements before you listen to Nelson Freire's Nocturnes. Simply amazing...

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6uRxtIh3K3Q/TwfcPVVxOJI/AAAAAAAAJnE/kSwA5-TWBx0/s1600/Nelson+Freire+-+Chopin+-+The+Nocturnes+%25282010%2529.jpg)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Holden on January 27, 2014, 12:15:56 PM
I was listening to the Nocturnes from this on Spotify and was quite impressed with the approach and the playing. As per my original post in this thread, I don't like Nocturne recordings that put things into the music that aren't there. I can usually tell how a pianist is going to play the Nocturnes from the first two bars of the music.

Stefan Askenase adopts a simple unfussy approach that gets to the essence of the music. While Moravec and Rubinstein rate as tops for me this goes slightly below them alongside Ashkenazy and is well worth listening to.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Lhz5OqZ4L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: snyprrr on February 05, 2014, 12:28:17 PM
I urge you not to make any bold statements before you listen to Nelson Freire's Nocturnes. Simply amazing...

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6uRxtIh3K3Q/TwfcPVVxOJI/AAAAAAAAJnE/kSwA5-TWBx0/s1600/Nelson+Freire+-+Chopin+-+The+Nocturnes+%25282010%2529.jpg)

Any seconds on this? i liked his Liszt recital.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Todd on February 05, 2014, 12:52:56 PM
Any seconds on this? i liked his Liszt recital.



I wanted to like it as much as his Liszt disc, if that counts.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on February 05, 2014, 01:28:14 PM
Any seconds on this?

Been a long-time fan of the nocturnes and could've sworn I've written about them many times on this board. No knowledge of this thread, though. Anyway, yeah I like Freire's nocturnes very much (along with Moravec's and Arrau's).


Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: kishnevi on February 05, 2014, 07:03:12 PM
Any seconds on this? i liked his Liszt recital.

Definite thumbs up from me.  Only Nocturnes I like better* is Rubinstein.

*of the ones I've heard, which is of course merely a small portion of the universe of Nocturnes recordings
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: G. String on April 21, 2014, 01:14:43 AM
Now that I'm visiting Rev's account, I can never get enough of listening to Chopin's nocturnes. One should own at least a dozen recordings. My favorites are Arrau, Freire, Magaloff, Moravec, Pires, Rev and Wild
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Mandryka on April 21, 2014, 05:21:13 AM
There's a discussion half way through this thread which made me think. It's about flow, and Holden says something like in good players of notcturnes there's a natural flow.

What made me pause for thought is this - when I listen to van Oort play Chopin, or Michel Boegner, it doesn't flow anything like the way it does when Cortot or Sofronitsky or Pletnev play. The nature of the instrument, percussive, less ressonant, makes for less seemless articulation and shorter phrases. I don't think their performances are any less satisfying for being more choppy, on the contrary, though I'm not a piano teacher. What makes Sofronitsky a great player of nocturnes, or Cortot,  isn't mainly about articulation, that would be absurd.

So I wonder about this flow, whether it's really just a consequence of tastes formed by overexposure to Steinways and other modern pianos. Rather than somethng essential to what Chopin was about. What he was trying to do when he wrote music seems quite an interesting question. Whatever the answer, he certainly wasn't writing for a modern grand.

I remember someone telling me that they're only nocturnes, you just put them on and let them wash over you and relax you. Well, I don't feel that.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Holden on April 21, 2014, 10:21:38 AM
I feel that many pianists ruin the "flow" of the Nocturnes" by the excessive use of rubato. This tenet can be applied to any Chopin work but the Nocturnes exacerbate the issue. It's one of the reasons that I like Rubinstein and Moravec.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: G. String on April 24, 2014, 01:48:18 AM
I feel that many pianists ruin the "flow" of the Nocturnes" by the excessive use of rubato. This tenet can be applied to any Chopin work but the Nocturnes exacerbate the issue.

I feel the same way, too. I can't stand soloists' "expressiveness" via sudden tempo changes or improvised rests in classical era style, too.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Brian on September 02, 2014, 05:46:52 AM
Has anybody heard Luiz de Moura Castro? MusicWeb is asking me to review his nocturne set.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Todd on September 02, 2014, 05:54:07 AM
Has anybody heard Luiz de Moura Castro? MusicWeb is asking me to review his nocturne set.



I've never seen the name before.  Jump at the chance to review it.  Worst case, it's mediocre.  Best case, it's a hidden gem.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Brian on September 02, 2014, 06:47:49 AM
I've never seen the name before.  Jump at the chance to review it.  Worst case, it's mediocre.  Best case, it's a hidden gem.

Sent in my request for it. Moura Castro is apparently 70+ years old and has had a productive relationship with the record label Ensayo (Esteban Sanchez's), doing recitals of music from Brazil, Cuba, and Argentina. I might try one of those albums streaming and report on it in the listening thread.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Todd on June 08, 2017, 04:54:08 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51DxENvM%2BgL._SS425.jpg)


[Cross-posted with WAYLTN thread.]

Second listen.  This was the last thing I listened to yesterday, too.  For the first listen, I did something I have not done in many years: I listened to all of the Nocturnes in one sitting.  Huangci's playing is outstanding throughout.  She tends not to dawdle, and in only a few instances does she play in a manner that might be considered to be pushing things.  The faster portions of 15/1 may be too hasty for some, and 37/2 sounds very Mazurka-y at the beginning, while the trills in 62/1 sound a bit excited.  In no case, though, is the overall effect ruined.  The set even includes a nice little encore of the Etude 25/7 with Tristan Cornut on cello.  Huangci's dexterity, clarity (or occasional purposeful lack thereof), dynamic shading, and tonal variety are superb.  Sonics for the 24/96 files are superb, and I suspect that 16/44.1 sounds essentially identical. 

I hope Huangci doesn't dawdle when it comes to making new recordings, and I hope she manages to make it here for a proper recital or concert soon.  She played in Spokane a couple months back.  Spokane!  Aside from being the birthplace of Thomas Hampson, what has that town done for classical music?  Worst case, I'll make the dreadful seven hour drive to hear her if she plays there again.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on June 10, 2017, 04:15:41 AM
Says here on Huangci's site;

Claire Huangci proves herself to be a vividly expressive interpreter of Chopin, the first since Artur Rubinstein to offer a complete cycle of the Nocturnes by Frédéric Chopin.

Is that right?
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Mandryka on June 10, 2017, 04:35:35 AM
Says here on Huangci's site;

Claire Huangci proves herself to be a vividly expressive interpreter of Chopin, the first since Artur Rubinstein to offer a complete cycle of the Nocturnes by Frédéric Chopin.

Is that right?

I don't think so. As far as I know Rubinstein didn't record the nocturne oublié.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Todd on June 10, 2017, 04:44:03 AM
I don't think so. As far as I know Rubinstein didn't record the nocturne oublié.


I just scanned my entire collection and the only version I have of the Nocturne Oublié is Huangci's.  It does not appear in the Rubinstein big-box.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Jo498 on June 10, 2017, 09:30:37 AM
Pires' recording has two opus posthumum Nocturnes in c sharp minor and c minor. The c sharp minor is the "oubliée", isn't it?
Rubinstein did not record it, but I don't think Pires was the only one before Huangci who did.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Todd on June 10, 2017, 10:01:01 AM
The C Sharp Minor Nocturne is usually labelled as Number 20 (and is in the Pires set), and is distinct from the Nocturne Oublie. 
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Mandryka on June 10, 2017, 12:03:11 PM
It's disgraceful that on Huangci's recording they write Nocturne Oubliée!

(Mind you I had to check the gender of nocturne, and was surprised.)

What is this forgotten nocturne? Who wrote it? When was it discovered?
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: kishnevi on June 10, 2017, 12:24:09 PM
It's disgraceful that on Huangci's recording they write Nocturne Oubliée!

(Mind you I had to check the gender of nocturne, and was surprised.)

What is this forgotten nocturne? Who wrote it? When was it discovered?

My question as well.

Rubinstein did not do the two posthumous Nocturnes (nor the posthumous waltzes, I believe). I think he justified that as honoring the composer's intentions.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Mandryka on June 10, 2017, 07:44:51 PM
There's some discussion of it here

http://www.pianomajeur.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6277&start=0

I agree with the general feeling in that discussion that, whoever wrote it, it's a nice enough bit of music.

The score is here, I have no idea if this is the only score

https://henseltlibrary.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/chopin-nocturneoubliee.pdf

There's zero discussion of it in Huangci's liner notes, she's more interested in other types of things, poetry, and just passes it off, slips it in, as pukka Chopin without so much as a by your leave. I don't think she's a scholar-musician.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes:VIRGIN EARS
Post by: snyprrr on May 24, 2018, 06:58:10 PM
It’s impossible to answer the question.

You can play these pieces in so many different ways.

I think it would be foolish to say that Weissenberg is better than Rubinstein, or that Rubinstein is better than Samson François, or that Samson François is better than Pollini.

These are all highly musical, well recorded, personal, intense performances. Despite their differences, none of them can be excluded for fundamental reasons.

They are incommensurables – and others would no doubt add others to the list.

All Weissenberg, Rubinstein, François, Pollini et al. have in common is a score to respond to – a score which profoundly underdetermines the performance.

My best advice is to listen to a selection of each of the above on youtube, see which tickles your fancy, and buy the CDs.

Alternatively say more about what you are looking for in terms of style – dreamy romantic, dramatic, objective, sentimental . . . and maybe someone can make some suggestions.

I'm coming fresh to the Nocturnes this very eve. I'm now using either 28/1, or the No.20posth.

1) I'm having trouble finding supernatural trilling in No.20 (I liked Wild)


I'm liking Moravec,...maybe Leonskaja,... Rev??anyone?,... Barenboim,No,..... Rubinstein- would like droolworthy sound,.... Fazil, eh?, not, or ya??,... Pires, nothing I could tell,.... Ashkenazy had a nice ambience,... Askenase's sound was a bit old,... I'm liking Wild, but there's no hall ambience, but he's good... Pletnev?... Ti Fong(?)CBS??... OhlssonEMI???,... Pollini I found 'unChopinesque',... Tzimon Barto????,... Oppitz....Weissenberg....pantpant....


I like an attenuating of the bang bang fortes , perhaps more of a 'feminine' approach, a Teldec/Philips type glorious piano sound,... I don't like the "pulling" rubato of some, but I do want -or, don't mind- a dreamstate quality (nicely proportioned dynamics). SOUND will have a lot to do with it (Nimbus prolly won't cut it,lol)

Is it too much to ask? :laugh:
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: snyprrr on May 25, 2018, 07:08:49 PM
Now that I'm visiting Rev's account, I can never get enough of listening to Chopin's nocturnes. One should own at least a dozen recordings. My favorites are Arrau, Freire, Magaloff, Moravec, Pires, Rev and Wild

I want as mild as possible forte outbursts, as if one HAD to be a little quieter than usual,... I don't see why that should be a bad request. I'm listening to Wild's No.13 (c minor), and it's pretty extrovert. At least with Ashkenazy, the ambient hall absorbs any violence; with these closely mic'd versions, one has the 'dynamic range factor' at play, which, for me, is that "low playing=turn up; sudden outburst of loudness=panic jump, turn down; repeat" thing. You like Rev, eh?

Ricardo  Castro
Roger Woodward

two new ones I saw...

Li Yundi- NO!! I want to like it, it's got great sound, but he just sounds too... too...

Samson- mm... eh... kinda loud?...


IS THERE AN OUTBURST IN EEEVERY NOCTURNE???
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes LIVIA REV/Hyperion
Post by: snyprrr on May 27, 2018, 01:37:51 PM
Well, I found a $5 copy of the Rev, don't know which release... her's is the only one I couldn't find on YT, and yet so many prefer - what I understand- is her Reserve. I'm trying to avoid masculine fortes, and judging by everyone's critiques, Rev is the most understated of the FrontRank. I think Gramophone criticized her for this, but agreed that others may feel differently.

I'll say goodnight to Chopin until the Rev comes 0:)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: LX521.4 on March 19, 2021, 08:09:59 PM
Love this thread, and got to explore so many interpretations of Op.9 No. 2, that I made a public Spotify playlist with most of the interpretations on this thread for easy listening.

Enjoy!

:-) neil

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7uyjdD3JbdqdWVYPf6gk6B
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 21, 2021, 10:13:58 AM
Love this thread, and got to explore so many interpretations of Op.9 No. 2, that I made a public Spotify playlist with most of the interpretations on this thread for easy listening.

Enjoy!   :-) neil    https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7uyjdD3JbdqdWVYPf6gk6B

The Nocturnes are probably my favorite Chopin piano works and I've been buying and culling for decades; not sure how many sets I've owned over those years but now down to the five shown below - the oldest in my collection is Ivan Moravec (and still a favorite); the most recent is Claire Huangci, who has become another fav - Chopin wrote these nocturnes between 1827-1846 (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturnes_(Chopin))) when the piano was still undergoing changes (introduction of better strings, cast iron frames, key actions, pedals, etc. - Link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano)); SO, I still enjoy the Michele Boegner performance on an 1836 Pleyel piano (although there are issues as described in a post of mine a few pages back in this thread).

Now is the chance for Chopin Nocturne fans to post of some of their 'current favorite recordings' for these works - I would love to hear a recording done on a reproduction piano from that era which likely would have better acoustics than that of Boegner, but I'm not aware of any newer ones?  Could be wrong, of course.  Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51veygMldBL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51oC-Zh6uYL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41DV07J0F0L.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51WjOLX9PNL._SY355_.jpg)  (https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FwZdShOyZpU/WB5qFbfGUiI/AAAAAAAADVg/oUpV3FizgqUaC5b1IN42Cx4rRad8suvWACLcB/s400/Tapa.jpg)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 21, 2021, 11:16:50 AM
Well, in my post above, I was asking about 'period instrument' Chopin performances and completely forgot to mention the 21-CD box called the Real Chopin - I tried to buy this package about 8 years ago from the Amazon MP but the dealer mis-represented the price which was about $36 USD - never came and my money was refunded.  But PrestoClassical (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/search?search_query=real%20chopin&size=10&view=large&page=2) appears to be offering the box and also a lot of single CDs; unfortunately, the Nocturnes seem to be split-up amongst three or so CDs mixed w/ other works - not ideal.  Dave :)

ADDENDUM: Another website HERE (https://sklep.nifc.pl/?produkt=2_40&ustaw_walute=EUR&ustaw_walute=PLN&ustaw_walute=EUR) in Poland - the box is 100 Euros (or about $120 USD, plus shipping!).

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-tcTZzsc/0/309caf97/L/ChopinReal-L.png)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Mandryka on March 21, 2021, 01:24:58 PM
Ewa Pobłocka recorded them for some incarnation of The Real Chopin, honestly the pianos those guys use are so smoothed out by their restoration policy I don't know that you really hear much fresh and new compared with Rubinstein or whatever. Are you able to sample Luc Devos's two CDs?
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Jo498 on March 21, 2021, 02:01:48 PM
Bart van Oort did the Nocturnes for Brilliant classics. So cheap, if still findable. Unfortunately? there was a first volume first, mixed with Field, and I think the second volume was also mixed with contemporaries and I don't know if there ever was a double with only the Chopin pieces. (I have that first mixed volume but cannot be more specific than that I apparently found it nice enough to keep...)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: hvbias on March 21, 2021, 02:18:17 PM
Love this thread, and got to explore so many interpretations of Op.9 No. 2, that I made a public Spotify playlist with most of the interpretations on this thread for easy listening.

Enjoy!

:-) neil

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7uyjdD3JbdqdWVYPf6gk6B

Welcome to GMG. I met Siegfried Linkwitz and his wife at a show in DC years ago, they were lovely people :)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: hvbias on March 21, 2021, 02:35:51 PM
Ewa Pobłocka recorded them for some incarnation of The Real Chopin, honestly the pianos those guys use are so smoothed out by their restoration policy I don't know that you really hear much fresh and new compared with Rubinstein or whatever. Are you able to sample Luc Devos's two CDs?

The Erards on those "The Real Chopin" series don't sound too dissimilar to other Erards I've heard on different labels. "The Real Chopin" do often have some additional ambience ranging from subtle to completely over the top that might make it hard to get a true feel for what the real life sound was like.

On the topic of this thread my favorites for the Nocturnes in no particular order are Claudio Arrau, Andrzej Wasowski, Pascal Amoyel, Ivan Moravec and Fou Ts'ong.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Daverz on March 21, 2021, 04:15:53 PM
Love this thread, and got to explore so many interpretations of Op.9 No. 2, that I made a public Spotify playlist with most of the interpretations on this thread for easy listening.

Enjoy!

:-) neil

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7uyjdD3JbdqdWVYPf6gk6B

Looks like you're a big Chopin and  Linkwitz speaker fan.  Welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 21, 2021, 07:48:18 PM
Ewa Pobłocka recorded them for some incarnation of The Real Chopin, honestly the pianos those guys use are so smoothed out by their restoration policy I don't know that you really hear much fresh and new compared with Rubinstein or whatever. Are you able to sample Luc Devos's two CDs?

Hi Mandryka - as mentioned before, I wish there were a 'new' recording using a reproduction period piano of the time rather than 'restored oldies' - thanks for mentioning Luc Devos - a disc is available on Amazon and both on PrestoClassical - also both can be previewed on Spotify which I'll do - however, the attached reviewed was rather negative relative to the period piano used although I suspect the reviewer is not a fan of this approach - will decide myself.  Thanks again.  Dave :)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Mandryka on March 22, 2021, 03:57:01 AM
Hi Mandryka - as mentioned before, I wish there were a 'new' recording using a reproduction period piano of the time rather than 'restored oldies' - thanks for mentioning Luc Devos - a disc is available on Amazon and both on PrestoClassical - also both can be previewed on Spotify which I'll do - however, the attached reviewed was rather negative relative to the period piano used although I suspect the reviewer is not a fan of this approach - will decide myself.  Thanks again.  Dave :)

Totally worthless review by Howard Kornblum.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Florestan on March 22, 2021, 05:20:14 AM
Bart van Oort did the Nocturnes for Brilliant classics. So cheap, if still findable. Unfortunately? there was a first volume first, mixed with Field, and I think the second volume was also mixed with contemporaries and I don't know if there ever was a double with only the Chopin pieces. (I have that first mixed volume but cannot be more specific than that I apparently found it nice enough to keep...)

You probably mean this 4-disc box:

(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Mar04/nocturnes.jpg)

The Art of the Nocturne in the Nineteenth Century

CD I: John Field: Nocturnes
Previously released as Columns Classics 0189 (Recording 1995)

CD II: Frédéric Chopin Nocturnes I
Previously released as Columns Classics 99155 (Recording 1998)

CD III: Frédéric Chopin Nocturnes II
(Recording 2003)

CD IV: 19th century Nocturnes
(Recording 2003)
Brilliant Classics 92202/1-2-3-4, December 2003.

Complete set re-released (2): Brilliant Classics 94048, 2010. 'Chopin. His Contemporaries and his instruments'. (6 cd box with 2 cds of contributions of various other pianists).

This Set features the complete Nocturnes by Chopin on two magnificent French pianos from Chopin's time and puts them in context with the nocturnes of Chopin's forerunner and example John Field - on a beautiful 1823 Broadwood) and by Chopin's contemporaries Pleyel, Kalkbrenner, Clara Schumann, Lefèbure-Wély, E. Weber, Alkan, Glinka, Szymanowska, Dobrzynski.


MusicWeb review: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Mar04/nocturne.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Mar04/nocturne.htm)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Jo498 on March 22, 2021, 06:16:25 AM
Yes and there was also an earlier double with CDs I and II by Brilliant with the same cover. Which is what I have. So I was wrong/inexact insofar that there was not really a separate second volume but the second edition was a 4 disc set. According to my set the Field is played on the Broadwood, the Chopin on an 1842 Pleyel instrument. Very probably the larger sets are worthwhile for anyone interested in period instruments.
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 22, 2021, 07:19:20 AM
Totally worthless review by Howard Kornblum.
Well, I agree completely - my feeling was that he was going to hate the recording even before a listen.  This morning on Spotify, I was sampling Luc Devos' first Nocturnes disc (below far left) and one on Rewind (third one) which is the same recording; the second Devos recording (2nd image below) was not on Spotify - BUT, I found the 4-disc van Oort set and must say that I enjoyed all.  Unfortunately, all of these offerings are difficult to find on CD, OOP, overpriced, or just not available - NOW, I've not done a thorough search so these may be hiding in the 'nooks & crannies' of the web and at reasonable prices - any suggestions appreciated.  BTW, for those who do like reviews, attached are 3 discussing the van Oort 4-disc box (2 excellent and 1 somewhat dismissive).

P.S. I'm currently listening to the Nocturnes w/ Michele Boegner on a Pleyel Piano, 1836 - have this recording as a MP3 DL but not as bad as my previous comments a few pages back - maybe I should just be happy w/ her rendition?

(https://img.discogs.com/adx-sO0ACNx7clb7fRTD0BKM_GI=/fit-in/500x502/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-11311489-1513963867-7731.jpeg.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/412Y6PXERGL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41yge5L3cCL.jpg)  (https://img.discogs.com/9ActQJ19qhx5kLXBmaYS6p8H-s0=/fit-in/600x617/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5103610-1384596594-5875.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Chopin Nocturnes
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on March 22, 2021, 08:04:00 AM
The Nocturnes are probably my favorite Chopin piano works and I've been buying and culling for decades; not sure how many sets I've owned over those years but now down to the five shown below - the oldest in my collection is Ivan Moravec (and still a favorite); the most recent is Claire Huangci, who has become another fav - Chopin wrote these nocturnes between 1827-1846 (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturnes_(Chopin))) when the piano was still undergoing changes (introduction of better strings, cast iron frames, key actions, pedals, etc. - Link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano)); SO, I still enjoy the Michele Boegner performance on an 1836 Pleyel piano (although there are issues as described in a post of mine a few pages back in this thread).

Now is the chance for Chopin Nocturne fans to post of some of their 'current favorite recordings' for these works - I would love to hear a recording done on a reproduction piano from that era which likely would have better acoustics than that of Boegner, but I'm not aware of any newer ones?  Could be wrong, of course.  Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51veygMldBL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51oC-Zh6uYL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41DV07J0F0L.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51WjOLX9PNL._SY355_.jpg)  (https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FwZdShOyZpU/WB5qFbfGUiI/AAAAAAAADVg/oUpV3FizgqUaC5b1IN42Cx4rRad8suvWACLcB/s400/Tapa.jpg)
Love that Moravec CD!  Will have to give a think about other favorite Chopin Nocturnes.

PD