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The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: John Copeland on February 23, 2010, 08:16:36 PM

Title: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: John Copeland on February 23, 2010, 08:16:36 PM
Right then. 
HANS ROTT
If you've never heard him, now's your chance.

LINKS NO LONGER EXIST

This is the third movement of Hans's only symphony. 
I created it myself from the two piece MP4's originally published, alas it is ok (320 kbps), but I'm not happy with its clarity.  I need an MP4 ripper to keep it in its original state.

So, if you want to see it and hear it in higher definition, here are the links:

LINKS NO LONGER EXIST

It is originally published by the RLPO itself.
I was at the concert, and was shouting approval at the end of the piece...but I can't hear myself...maybe I shouted too late.   :'(

This should be a great introduction to the soundworld of Hans Rott.  Unless anyone beats me to it, and they're very welcome, this will be followed by a summary of Rotts life, who he was, what he wanted, what affected him, the truth about his 'madness', what he thought of cheese, how his brother got shot, etc...exciting stuff...but I am wrapped up in another Hans Rott project at the moment (hint - see avatar), so it may be a day or two before I post it.  Meanwhile, enjoy Hans Rott and feel free to add to this...
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: listener on February 23, 2010, 09:36:32 PM
Who was his idol?   or  What god hath Rott? 
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: John Copeland on February 24, 2010, 10:47:09 AM
Updated info and video links direct to the RLPO website. 
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on February 24, 2010, 11:16:54 AM
Thanks, John. I became aware of Hans Rott's symphony and his tragic fate many years ago. I even read a German study about him. But this is the first time I find his originality quite breathtaking. If he had lived, he would have been the 'third man' next to Strauss and Mahler. This Scherzo is astonishing. The only miscalculation is the over-use of the triangle. For the rest - chapeau! (Foreshadowings of Mahler's first two symphonies are readily recognizable. What was Gustav doing, borrowing (stealing?) from his dead friend?!)
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: John Copeland on February 24, 2010, 01:53:48 PM
If he had lived, he would have been the 'third man' next to Strauss and Mahler.
Au contraire, surely he would have developed to be the FIRST man, next to Strauss and Mahler.
Quote
The only miscalculation is the over-use of the triangle.
The acoustics of the Philharmonia Hall give themselves well to the triangle.  Awww.   :(  I like triangles.  :'(
Quote
What was Gustav doing, borrowing (stealing?) from his dead friend?!)
My own belief is that Mahler saw in Rotts music the very spirit of what he was trying to achieve himself.  He didn't steal, he rose to what he found in the music of Hans Rott and went on to exemplify that in his own way.
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Sergeant Rock on February 24, 2010, 01:57:38 PM
This Scherzo is astonishing. The only miscalculation is the over-use of the triangle.

It's even worse in the last movement. As Hurwitz says, "Perhaps his only original contribution....is an obbligato triangle part of positively stupefying persistence." I have a hard time listening to Segerstam's recording because the triangle sounds like a really bad case of tinnitus. Very irritating. Weigle's recording is much better. I'm not sure what's happening; either the recording engineer dampened it or Weigle had the percussionist simply not play for long stretches. In any case the ringing disappears and it's a blessed relief. I can actualy enjoy the "music" finally. And it is music I really enjoy--enough to own multiple versions (just ordered the CPO CD). Playing spot the influences is fun but the man was an original too. Not only Mahler but I swear Franz Schmidt must have seen the score before he wrote his First Symphony.

Sarge
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Sergeant Rock on February 24, 2010, 02:02:27 PM
The acoustics of the Philharmonia Hall give themselves well to the triangle.  Awww.   :(  I like triangles.

It's an odd touch, though, especially considering that Bruckner (one of Rott's teachers and his main champion) used it so rarely.

Sarge
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: John Copeland on February 24, 2010, 02:13:01 PM
Sarge, I am pleased that you have been ordering Rott!
I am sorry neither you, Johan or that rogue Hurwitz like the incandesence of the triangle.   :'(   It is a tricky acoustical balance with that little instrument in this symphony, and I'm waiting to see what Dennis Russell Davies does with that in his next recorded performance too.
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Sergeant Rock on February 24, 2010, 02:37:56 PM
Sarge, I am pleased that you have been ordering Rott!

The CPO wll be my third recording of the Rott symphony. I also ordered the CD with the String Symphony and Quartet.

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/4260017182021.jpg)

Really looking forward to hearing those.

Sarge
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on February 24, 2010, 02:50:12 PM
My own belief is that Mahler saw in Rotts music the very spirit of what he was trying to achieve himself.  He didn't steal, he rose to what he found in the music of Hans Rott and went on to exemplify that in his own way.


Your belief is correct, for if I remember correctly Mahler himself said something quite similar. Still - the Scherzo is original in a 'Rottian' way. I am struck by the harmonic daring and also by the rhythmic vitality, a sort of speeded-up Bruckner. Very exciting.


The CPO wll be my third recording of the Rott symphony. I also ordered the CD with the String Symphony and Quartet.

Really looking forward to hearing those.


Please report back!
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: John Copeland on February 24, 2010, 03:07:06 PM
Mahler on Rott:

"It is completely impossible to estimate what music has lost in him. His First Symphony...soars to such heights of genius that it makes him - without exaggeration - the founder of the New Symphony as I understand it...His innermost nature is so much akin to mine that he and I are like two fruits from the same tree, produced by the same soil, nourished by the same air. We have had an infinite amount in common."
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on February 24, 2010, 03:19:55 PM
Mahler on Rott:

"It is completely impossible to estimate what music has lost in him. His First Symphony...soars to such heights of genius that it makes him - without exaggeration - the founder of the New Symphony as I understand it...His innermost nature is so much akin to mine that he and I are like two fruits from the same tree, produced by the same soil, nourished by the same air. We have had an infinite amount in common."


That's it.  :)


And now to bed, with Rawsthorne in my mp3 player...
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 06, 2012, 07:47:20 PM
This may be of interest to Scots John (that is if he doesn't know about it already):

Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Cato on June 18, 2012, 12:43:00 PM
This may be of interest to Scots John (that is if he doesn't know about it already):



Just a reminder that this CD - with the Suite in B - is now available!   8)
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 20, 2012, 06:29:32 AM
This may be of interest to Scots John (that is if he doesn't know about it already):



Todd's Take (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,31.msg638371.html#msg638371)
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: jlaurson on June 21, 2012, 11:37:48 PM
Mahler on Rott:

"It is completely impossible to estimate what music has lost in him. His First Symphony...soars to such heights of genius that it makes him - without exaggeration - the founder of the New Symphony as I understand it...His innermost nature is so much akin to mine that he and I are like two fruits from the same tree, produced by the same soil, nourished by the same air. We have had an infinite amount in common."

That reminds me: did you ever get the issue of Listen Magazine?
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: eyeresist on June 22, 2012, 01:17:10 AM
Mahler on Rott:

"It is completely impossible to estimate what music has lost in him. His First Symphony...soars to such heights of genius that it makes him - without exaggeration - the founder of the New Symphony as I understand it...His innermost nature is so much akin to mine that he and I are like two fruits from the same tree, produced by the same soil, nourished by the same air. We have had an infinite amount in common."

Bear in mind that's Alma Mahler. ;)
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: The new erato on June 22, 2012, 03:24:49 AM
Bear in mind that's Alma Mahler. ;)
She wanted to bed him?
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: jlaurson on June 22, 2012, 03:48:14 AM
She wanted to bed him?

I really hope not. She was five when Hans Rott died.
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: The new erato on June 22, 2012, 03:59:35 AM
I really hope not. She was five when Hans Rott died.
I wouldn' put it past her.
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: hbswebmaster on August 08, 2012, 11:00:23 AM
Scots John,

I share your wild enthusiasm about the Rott symphony, and echo Johan about that triangle! I understand your perspective about Mahler taking Rott's ideas and  developing them in his own music, but I think that Mahler just went too far. Not just in his first two symphonies: he was still inserting melodies and harmonies from Rott's symphony into his own music up to the fifth and seventh symphonies! And if you think that I'm overstating, then just listen to the slow movement of Rott's string quartet, of which Mahler lifted about fifty consecutive seconds' worth, orchestrated it for full strings and inserted it bodily into the Adagietto of the fifth symphony. I was beginning to come over to your view until I heard that.

;)
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: John Copeland on August 10, 2012, 01:52:31 AM
Scots John,
I share your wild enthusiasm about the Rott symphony, and echo Johan about that triangle! I understand your perspective about Mahler taking Rott's ideas and  developing them in his own music, but I think that Mahler just went too far. Not just in his first two symphonies: he was still inserting melodies and harmonies from Rott's symphony into his own music up to the fifth and seventh symphonies! And if you think that I'm overstating, then just listen to the slow movement of Rott's string quartet, of which Mahler lifted about fifty consecutive seconds' worth, orchestrated it for full strings and inserted it bodily into the Adagietto of the fifth symphony. I was beginning to come over to your view until I heard that.
;)

 :D
Yes, I know about many of the Rott interpolations in Mahlers work, and I don't think your're overstating at all hbswebmaster .  They are as clear as hell  :-\ throughout Mahlers ouvre and it is surprising the extent Mahler was influenced by his old Roast Beef loving chum.  We do share the same view, but I am a late romantic softy and want to let Mahler away with it.   :P
It is a pity no-one likes the bloody triangle.   :'(
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: jwinter on August 10, 2012, 03:31:27 AM
So, speaking as a big fan of Mahler & Bruckner who hasn't yet sampled any Rott, which one of the several recordings mentioned of the 1st symphony would you recommend as a starting point?
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: John Copeland on August 10, 2012, 03:34:57 AM
So, speaking as a big fan of Mahler & Bruckner who hasn't yet sampled any Rott, which one of the several recordings mentioned of the 1st symphony would you recommend as a starting point?

This one:



Yet to be outclassed imo.
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: jwinter on August 10, 2012, 03:37:07 AM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Sergeant Rock on August 10, 2012, 03:37:57 AM
So, speaking as a big fan of Mahler & Bruckner who hasn't yet sampled any Rott, which one of the several recordings mentioned of the 1st symphony would you recommend as a starting point?

Weigle. Not only cheap but has the most discrete triangle, a plus for me. (Sorry, John  ;D )




P.S. I see John, not unexpectedly, picks Segerstam, whose recording turns the Symphony into a Concerto for Triangle and Orchestra  :D

Sarge
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: OrchestralNut on August 10, 2012, 03:42:45 AM
Thanks John for bringing this composer to our attention.  Wow, I had no idea he died so very young.  What a tragedy!  :(

Looking forward to exploring some of his works, as I know you've mentioned him numerous times.

Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: John Copeland on August 10, 2012, 03:46:26 AM
Weigle. Not only cheap but has the most discrete triangle, a plus for me. (Sorry, John  ;D )



P.S. I see John, not unexpectedly, picks Segerstam, whose recording turns the Symphony into a Concerto for Triangle and Orchestra  :D

Sarge

 :D
Yes, this Weigle recording is good, I suppose, for a 'starter.'   :P   ;D   But for me, it hasn't got the same scope of musical vision and gravitas that Segerstam brings to it.  Please don't ask what I mean by 'scope of musical vision' sarge, I have no idea.   :-\  ???
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: jlaurson on August 10, 2012, 04:08:56 AM
Weigle. Not only cheap but has the most discrete triangle, a plus for me. (Sorry, John  ;D )

Sarge

Seconded.
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Scarpia on August 10, 2012, 06:10:31 AM
So, speaking as a big fan of Mahler & Bruckner who hasn't yet sampled any Rott, which one of the several recordings mentioned of the 1st symphony would you recommend as a starting point?

I got this one



not because of any careful analysis, but because I stumbled upon a cheap copy at Berkshire.  After listening to it, I had the impression that it was a fine work.  I have no idea how this recording compares with any others.
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: hbswebmaster on August 10, 2012, 06:26:07 AM
The Samuel's a fine recording and performance - it's how I got to know it; he edits the triangle part a little. I agree about the Segerstam; has great presence. Dennis Russell Davies is also good, except that he inserts two cymbal clashes at the climax of the last movement.

I also tend to forgive Mahler (a little), Scots John; he's great fun to play. I've played various percussion instruments in 1, 2, 5 and 6 over the years.

;)
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Scarpia on August 10, 2012, 06:29:42 AM
But for me, it hasn't got the same scope of musical vision and gravitas that Segerstam brings to it.  Please don't ask what I mean by 'scope of musical vision' sarge, I have no idea.   :-\  ???

Based on other comments on the Segerstam, I infer "scope of music vision" means an incessant metallic tinkling.   :D
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Cato on August 10, 2012, 06:31:45 AM
I got this one



not because of any careful analysis, but because I stumbled upon a cheap copy at Berkshire.  After listening to it, I had the impression that it was a fine work.  I have no idea how this recording compares with any others.

This was the premiere recording of the work, as I recall: the "Cincinnati Philharmonia" is based at the College Conservatory of Music at the University of Cincinnati.

Segerstam's Norrköping group is barn-burning excellent, as are the interpretations from Weigle and the most recent one with Paavo Järvi.  There are things to like in all of them: the Samuels I have never heard.  Weigle offers the Prelude and the Julius Caesar.

Concerning Mahler's wife: to be sure, historians have shown that her memory and at times her opinions were awry.  I have much less skepticism about her Hans Rott story: why would she invent Mahler giving such praise to his former and deceased colleague?  Why bother including anything about Rott, whom few people remembered by the time she was writing?

Here is an interesting discussion of the Mahler/Rott Problem:

An excerpt:

Quote
As Mr de la Grange pointed out to me via email back in February when we first began Rott discussions here, Mahler’s firs major work, Das Klagende Lied, was finished at more or less the same time as the Rott Symphony and is a far more polished and complete piece of music. And it is echt Mahler.

As I tried to explain earlier in this series, I think Rott himself became a powerful symbol for Mahler- the fallen brother in arms, the hopeless idealist who couldn’t deal with the hard edges of a cynical musical establishment, the musical sibling Mahler outlived. Rott, and therefore Rott’s music, becomes a symbol of hope and fragility, of idealism and victimization, of aspiration and of guilt. When Mahler evokes the memory of Rott, he is talking about redemption and about his own attempt heal the wounds of the past.  So, yes, Mahler’s incorporation of themes from Rott is consistent with his quotes, references and shout outs from other composers, but Rott was clearly a special case. When Mahler refers to Rott, he is not merely borrowing musical material, he is referencing a rather complex mythology he constructed around the memory of his friend."

See:
http://kennethwoods.net/blog1/2010/04/27/a-flawed-perspective-mahler-and-rott/ (http://kennethwoods.net/blog1/2010/04/27/a-flawed-perspective-mahler-and-rott/)
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: CriticalI on October 03, 2012, 08:04:20 PM
I'm considering getting a cheap copy of the symphony. Can anyone compare Weigle and Samuel?
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: jlaurson on October 04, 2012, 12:12:12 AM
I'm considering getting a cheap copy of the symphony. Can anyone compare Weigle and Samuel?

Yes. Samuel is a fine, honorable effort, but Weigle superior in every way.
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: John Copeland on October 04, 2012, 12:14:53 AM
I'm considering getting a cheap copy of the symphony. Can anyone compare Weigle and Samuel?
:D
There's not much difference in price between them all.  I ALWAYS recommend the Segerstam...it is still my reference copy.  I have all Hans Rott releases, and all available live performances of his symphony.  Segerstam may be the last conductor one might associate with Hans Rott, but by golly he most definitely still holds the best release out there.  Of Weigle and Samuel I would opt for Weigle - but given the choice, I would always opt for Segerstam and the Norrköping-ers.  Until, that is, someone can nail it even better, and that is always possible.

However, if you don't like triangles,  :(  go for Weigle. 
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: CriticalI on October 04, 2012, 04:22:17 PM
Thanks, guys - Weigle it is :)
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: moi on December 19, 2012, 07:13:29 AM
And if you think that I'm overstating, then just listen to the slow movement of Rott's string quartet, of which Mahler lifted about fifty consecutive seconds' worth, orchestrated it for full strings and inserted it bodily into the Adagietto of the fifth symphony.
I've just listened to the string quartet for the first time and couldn't believe what I was hearing. Baffled...
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: jlaurson on August 03, 2013, 06:14:44 AM

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5qNdvoe4EdM/T385kcE3K6I/AAAAAAAAB6E/nR1C_9bD0sI/s1600/DIP-YOUR-EARS.png)
Dip Your Ears, No. 149 (Hans Rott Returns)

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/08/dip-your-ears-no-149-hans-rott-returns.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/08/dip-your-ears-no-149-hans-rott-returns.html)
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: jlaurson on June 24, 2014, 07:29:10 AM
At the Konzerthaus (https://twitter.com/Konzerthauswien):

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OEKZ5vbxL2o/U6mie5tgGII/AAAAAAAAHd0/Z8_k2XbgxfA/s1600/Martinu560.jpg)

Ionarts-at-Large: Rott World Premiere, Widmann
& Martinů with the ORF RSO


http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2014/06/ionarts-at-large-rott-world-premiere.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2014/06/ionarts-at-large-rott-world-premiere.html)
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Cato on October 14, 2014, 04:31:09 PM
I just came across this:



It seems to be an orchestration of 5 Rott songs for piano and voice, plus some connecting pieces ("Commentaries") composed by the orchestrator Enjott Schneider "in a contemporary idiom."

And...

Soon we could have a "blind listening" game for the Rott Symphony!  :D
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: xochitl on October 14, 2014, 11:46:10 PM
just heard the string quartet in Cm

never came across Rott's music before and honestly, i can see why Brahms didnt like his stuff...a lot of it is just plain clunky. there are striking flashes of brilliance though.

now on to the symphony with Segerstam
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: calyptorhynchus on May 10, 2015, 06:15:30 PM
I am a great enthusiast for the Symphony, but I only have the Segerstam recording.

My admiration for it is strenghtened by the thought that if Rott had had a normal composing career this Symphony would have been his No.0, as it were.

However, listening to it today I suddenly realsied that Rott overuses the triangle more than a little; many of the louder passages of the Symphony have a constant tinkling in the background. Do any of the conducters of the available recordings intervene and cut back on this feature at all?
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Jo498 on May 10, 2015, 09:56:35 PM
Yes, I think the first ever recording on hyperion reduced the triangle's contributions. I now have the Weigle recording but do not remember how much triangle it has.
There are more by P. Järvi (RCA), Russel Davies (cpo), Layer/Montepellier (naive), Rückwardt/Mainz (Acousense). I have not heard them but with at least 7 recordings the piece can probably count as established. I've heard it live once with Järvi senior and the Berlin Philharmonic.
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Sergeant Rock on May 11, 2015, 02:39:34 AM
However, listening to it today I suddenly realsied that Rott overuses the triangle more than a little; many of the louder passages of the Symphony have a constant tinkling in the background. Do any of the conducters of the available recordings intervene and cut back on this feature at all?

Rott and Segerstam turn the work into a Concerto for Triangle and Orchestra. Some here like the effect. Not me. Weigle is my favorite performance, not least of all because he and his recording team do a good job burying the annoying "tinkling."

Sarge
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Cato on May 11, 2015, 02:47:45 AM
I am a great enthusiast for the Symphony, but I only have the Segerstam recording.

However, listening to it today I suddenly realsied that Rott overuses the triangle more than a little; many of the louder passages of the Symphony have a constant tinkling in the background.

Some day a musicologist will prove that Rott suffered from a high-pitched tinkling tinnitus.   ;)

I am not bothered by the triangle, but yes, it is a curiosity in the orchestration. 
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: jlaurson on May 11, 2015, 01:12:50 PM
Some day a musicologist will prove that Rott suffered from a high-pitched tinkling tinnitus.   ;)

I am not bothered by the triangle, but yes, it is a curiosity in the orchestration.

Are we talking about the Symphonic Concerto for Triangle by Hans Rott?

I've counted the bars in which the triangle makes an appearance!
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on April 06, 2020, 03:10:22 PM
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/BIS-CD-563.jpg)

This recording is mercilessly breathtaking. I can't assimilate its powerful impact on me yet. Glorious beyond words!
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: vandermolen on April 06, 2020, 10:04:04 PM
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/BIS-CD-563.jpg)

This recording is mercilessly breathtaking. I can't assimilate its powerful impact on me yet. Glorious beyond words!

I'm also an admirer of the symphony.
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Cato on April 07, 2020, 04:08:37 PM
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/BIS-CD-563.jpg)

This recording is mercilessly breathtaking. I can't assimilate its powerful impact on me yet. Glorious beyond words!

Yes, Segerstam brings out everything in a most excellent fashion!
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Cato on November 29, 2020, 06:01:47 AM
I just discovered these via a Gustav Mahler FaceBook notification:

(https://scontent.ftpf1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/127111692_10220942460165649_8968141456651248475_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=2&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=qjiNc-ChBRkAX8dJ530&_nc_ht=scontent.ftpf1-1.fna&oh=774c7f5104045caf0ad046d49807762f&oe=5FEAEA2A)


(https://scontent.ftpf1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/125956054_10220942461165674_1899028377826411828_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=RKRdHWDp_JUAX9h_jUG&_nc_ht=scontent.ftpf1-1.fna&oh=be7517de543bcee7e87f404deb5b7f53&oe=5FEB2B65)

Intriguing artwork!   ;)

Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: springrite on November 29, 2020, 09:34:14 PM
I just came across this:



It seems to be an orchestration of 5 Rott songs for piano and voice, plus some connecting pieces ("Commentaries") composed by the orchestrator Enjott Schneider "in a contemporary idiom."

And...

Soon we could have a "blind listening" game for the Rott Symphony!  :D
This is the recording that I have.

Am I the only person to have this recording???
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Sergeant Rock on December 02, 2020, 07:38:24 AM
Am I the only person to have this recording???

I have it too. It's one of five Rott Symphony performances I own.

Sarge
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Daverz on December 02, 2020, 03:39:29 PM
I just discovered these via a Gustav Mahler FaceBook notification:

(https://scontent.ftpf1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/127111692_10220942460165649_8968141456651248475_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=2&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=qjiNc-ChBRkAX8dJ530&_nc_ht=scontent.ftpf1-1.fna&oh=774c7f5104045caf0ad046d49807762f&oe=5FEAEA2A)

I've read a couple reviews that trash the music.  I can easily stream it, I suppose, but don't usually intentionally seek out bad listening experiences.   I do like the Symphony in a different recording (Paavo Järvi, IIRC).
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: vandermolen on December 02, 2020, 10:35:22 PM
I have it too. It's one of five Rott Symphony performances I own.

Sarge

Which is your favourite Sarge?

I only have the Cincinnati and BIS recordings.
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on December 03, 2020, 05:01:53 AM
I googled him on youtube and listened to his string symphony.  Enjoyable but, pardon in my humble opinion, not particularly memorable.  Which work do you think I should listen to next?  I'm willing to give him another shot.

PD
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Sergeant Rock on December 03, 2020, 04:49:56 PM
Which is your favourite Sarge?

I only have the Cincinnati and BIS recordings.

I don't own the Cincinnati and actively dislike Segerstam because of the prominent triangle which grates on my nerves. I prefer Weigle but also like Albrecht, Davies and Järvi.

Sarge
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: vandermolen on December 03, 2020, 10:43:36 PM
I don't own the Cincinnati and actively dislike Segerstam because of the prominent triangle which grates on my nerves. I prefer Weigle but also like Albrecht, Davies and Järvi.

Sarge

Many thanks Sarge.
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Jo498 on December 04, 2020, 01:44:33 AM
I googled him on youtube and listened to his string symphony.  Enjoyable but, pardon in my humble opinion, not particularly memorable.  Which work do you think I should listen to next?  I'm willing to give him another shot.

The rediscovery of Rott about 30 years ago was mainly about his only complete orchestral symphony in E major. While it is a remarkable work, I think both its quality and the influence on Mahler have been a bit exaggerated by Rott aficionados. But people who like Mahler and/or Bruckner should give it a try. Especially the scherzo (by far the best movement, I think) is spookily "Mahlerian".
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on December 04, 2020, 05:07:28 AM
The rediscovery of Rott about 30 years ago was mainly about his only complete orchestral symphony in E major. While it is a remarkable work, I think both its quality and the influence on Mahler have been a bit exaggerated by Rott aficionados. But people who like Mahler and/or Bruckner should give it a try. Especially the scherzo (by far the best movement, I think) is spookily "Mahlerian".
Thank you Jo!

PD
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Roasted Swan on December 05, 2020, 10:45:13 AM
The rediscovery of Rott about 30 years ago was mainly about his only complete orchestral symphony in E major. While it is a remarkable work, I think both its quality and the influence on Mahler have been a bit exaggerated by Rott aficionados. But people who like Mahler and/or Bruckner should give it a try. Especially the scherzo (by far the best movement, I think) is spookily "Mahlerian".

I am a little more enthusiastic than Jo498 about the Rott Symphony.  For sure not flawless but it has some really compelling passages.  Certainly the equal or better of many contemporary Austro-Germanic symphonies (think the CPO catalogue!).  The finale triangle is an aberration.  Try the Jarvi/Frankfurt recording which is very impressive (but I do like the epic style of Sergestam triangle and all!)
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Jo498 on December 05, 2020, 11:26:25 AM
I was quite fascinated by the symphony and bought one of the first recordings (Gerhard Samuel on hyperion) in ca. 1996 or so when the symphony was touted in several publications and internet fora. It deservedly received better recordings and I even saw it once live in Berlin with Järvi senior (which was luck/accident, I didn't plan on it, it was just what was on the program the week I visited a friend).
I'd probably agree that it does hold up with Raff (albeit a generation older and more polished) or whatever cpo has dug out in the last 20 years. ;) But this is not like a second Mahler or Bruckner.
But there are some fans who claim the Rott would have been equal to Mahler (nobody knows what would have been) and that Mahler was hugely indebted to Rott which is also quite unclear because it seems that Mahler only saw the score of the Rott symphony when he had already written his first 2 or 3 symphonies. Especially the scherzo does sound close to Mahler (the rest really doesnt, IMO) but both Rott and Mahler obviously had a very similar background and some aspects of Bruckner as inspiration. I think the quality of Rott's symphony tends to get slightly and Mahler's debt to Rott gets hugely exaggerated.
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: John Copeland on December 11, 2020, 05:53:52 AM
(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/BIS-CD-563.jpg)

This recording is mercilessly breathtaking. I can't assimilate its powerful impact on me yet. Glorious beyond words!

YES!!
So, didn't take me long to get back here.  Just to say a new Rott SET is in the process of being released..!!!

(https://www.chandos.net/artwork/C50408.jpg)

I'll review soon...
Title: Re: Hans Rott (1858 - 1884)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on December 11, 2020, 09:02:58 PM
YES!!
So, didn't take me long to get back here.  Just to say a new Rott SET is in the process of being released..!!!

(https://www.chandos.net/artwork/C50408.jpg)

I'll review soon...

Segerstam and P. Järvi are my favorites thus far, and I have good expectations of that forthcoming release too.