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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: vandermolen on March 23, 2009, 04:21:40 AM

Title: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 23, 2009, 04:21:40 AM
OK, I have started this for purely selfish reasons; to see if I can discover another great symphony by a 'sadly-neglected' composer. Here are my six. I have tried to include works by composers of different nationalities - but this is not a 'rule' for the thread:

Cyril Rootham: Symphony No 1 (British) Lyrita CD

Kaljo Raid: Symphony No 1 (Estonian) Chandos CD

Klaus Egge: Symphony No 1 (Norwegian) Aurora CD

Ross Edwards: Symphony No 1 'Da pacem Domine' (Australian) ABC CD

Rudolph Simonsen: Symphony No 2 'Hellas' (Danish) CPO CD

Douglas Lilburn: Symphony No 1 (New Zealander) Naxos/Kiwi Pacific/Continuum CD
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Grazioso on March 23, 2009, 04:57:09 AM
While probably known to more than a few posters here, these guys mostly fall far outside the classical canon (alas):

Leevi Madetoja: Symphony No 1 (Finnish) Alba (though all three are excellent and available in fine performances on Chandos, too)

Joonas Kokkonen: Symphony No 4 (Finnish) Ondine

Erich Wolfgang Korngold: Symphony in F# Minor (Austro-Hungarian/American) EMI (relatively well-known composer, but I rarely hear this 20th-century masterwork mentioned)

William Mathias: Symphony No 3 (Welsh) Nimbus

Vagn Holmboe: Symphony No 3 "Sinfonia rustica" (Danish) BIS

Ned Rorem: Symphony No 3 (American) Naxos

(And akin to Korngold's situation, you have composers like Boccherini, Rimsky-Korsakov, etc. who are household names among classical fans but whose symphonies you might not have heard--but should!)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 23, 2009, 05:20:25 AM
Richard Wetz Symphonies 1, 2, 3 various conductors and orchestras, CPO

Bernard Herrmann Symphony Herrmann/National Phil, Unicorn

Tikhon Khrennikov Symphony #2 Svetlanov/USSR State Academy, Vox

Edouard Lalo Symphony G minor Almeida/Orch Monte-Carlo, Philips

John McEwen A Solway Symphony Mitchell/LPO, Chandos

Mikis Theodorakis Symphony #7 "Spring" Hauschild/Phil Dresden, Sound Wings

Sarge
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: mc ukrneal on March 23, 2009, 06:44:08 AM
Interesting idea. This is the type of thread that hurts the wallet!

My thinking would be:

Arriga/Vorisek Cd on Hyperion (can get both on the same disc, so efficient use of the slush fund)
Arriiga Symphony in D major. Vorisek Symphony in D minor. (the D's have it)

The rest would include:
Arensky Symphony No 1 (good version on Chandos with Polyansky conducting, and a second symphony on another disc if you like it)

Svendson symphony no 1 (which I have coincidentally  with #2 on the same disc, BIS)

Steinberg Symphony No 1 (DG, there is a second around too, these used to be at Archivmusic)

Reinicke Symphony no 2 (CPO, with #3)

I was also thinking of including Langaard No 14 or Lyapunov No 1. If I think more, I'm sure I'll remember others too.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Wanderer on March 23, 2009, 07:04:35 AM
Gade: Symphony No.1
Schmidt: Symphony No.1
Langgaard: Symphony No.1
Bantock: A Celtic Symphony
Rott: Symphony in E major
d'Indy: Symphonie sur un chant montagnard français ("Symphonie cévenole")
Glière: Symphony No.1

These came immediately to mind. Some very good suggestions above (i.e. Korngold and McEwen). Keep them coming, people!  8)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 23, 2009, 08:09:09 AM
Thanks guys for already fascinating replies. Nice to see a vote for old Mcewen. His valedictory 'Where the Wild Thyme Blows' (on the same Chandos CD as the Solway Symphony) is a great favourite. Clearly I will have to listen to Ned Rorem's 3rd Symphony again. Also nice to see a vote for the much despised Khrennikov's 2nd Symphony, which is, I agree, a work which deserves attention.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Brian on March 23, 2009, 08:25:59 AM
I actually found this challenge very easy!

Komei Abe, Symphony No 1
Kurt Atterberg, Symphony No 3, "West Coast Pictures"
Franz Berwald, "Sinfonie singuliere"
Jan Wenzel Kalliwoda, Symphony No 5
Alexander Kopylov, Symphony in C minor
Johan Svendsen, Symphony No 2
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 23, 2009, 08:35:06 AM
Schmidt: Symphony No.1

Thanks for plugging one of my favorite symphonies, a favorite not only in this category (lesser-known composers) but a favorite symphony period. I considered listing it too but didn't want to come across like a broken record.

Sarge
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Renfield on March 23, 2009, 10:06:52 AM
Being a conservative heathen - my straying from 'normal' repertory almost exclusively consisting of Scandinavian composers I can decode using my familiar roster, and the odd Russian - I will remain in the safety of the audience, for this thread. ;)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Gabriel on March 23, 2009, 10:11:43 AM
As Arriaga's and Voříšek have been listed, I'll contribute with works not yet mentioned in this thread.

Cherubini: Symphony in D major.
Eberl: Symphony in E flat major.
Wölfl: Symphony in G minor.
Spohr: Symphony in C minor.
Kalinnikov: Symphony in G minor.
Kalinnikov: Symphony in A major.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: some guy on March 23, 2009, 10:12:58 AM
But most of the people mentioned so far are not really lesser-known, are they?

Berwald? Schmidt? Khrennikov? Langgaard? Really? (Actually, "Really" is not one of the composers.)

How about these, instead:

Günter Kochan, #2
Clarence Barlow, #1
Wilfried Krätzschmar, #2
Avet Terterian, #3
Frank Corcoran, #4
Alessandro Solbiati, #2

And if any of those are too well known (I'm really no judge of well-knownness, I confess), then substitute

Bolesław Szabelski, #5 or
Niels Viggo Bentzon, #7 (good example of one I would have thought too well known, but what do I know?
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: springrite on March 23, 2009, 10:15:27 AM
Harrison Symphony #3
Harbison Symphony #2
Shapero: Symphony for Classical Orchestra
Yun: Symphony # 4 (Well, any of them, really)
Lyatoshinsky Symphony #3

Well, I do not consider any of the above names really really lesser-known (save Shapero). But based on the names mentioned so far, I guess they'd quality.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: karlhenning on March 23, 2009, 10:18:04 AM
Wilfried Krätzschmar, #2

Ah, the wheat-germ symphonist!
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Cato on March 23, 2009, 10:18:46 AM
Only 6?   :o

Hans Rott: Symphony in E major.
Alexander Tcherepnin: Symphony #4.
Ernst Toch: Symphony #2.
Sergei Taneyev: Symphonies #2 and 4.   0:)  (He-He!)
Matthias Vermeulen: Symphony #2.
Louis Vierne:Symphony in A minor.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: karlhenning on March 23, 2009, 10:19:48 AM
Cato, you remind me that I want to revisit the Toch symphonies . . . .
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Sergeant Rock on March 23, 2009, 10:26:07 AM
But most of the people mentioned so far are not really lesser-known, are they?

Berwald? Schmidt? Khrennikov? Langgaard? Really?

Lesser known than Beethoven, Haydn, Schumann, Mahler, Brahms, etc. Few of the composers mentioned so far get regular airing in our concert halls or have had many recordings. And I wonder how many members in this forum have heard all the symphonies mentioned so far. I bet the majority haven't heard the majority listed.

Sarge
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Brian on March 23, 2009, 10:29:33 AM
Kalinnikov: Symphony in G minor.
Oh snap! I forgot that one. A masterpiece! Kalinnikov, Kalliwoda and Kopylov are part of my go-to stable of Obscure Composers Who Wrote Awesome Music and Whose Last Names Begin With K! Also included: Karlowicz, Koechlin, Kuhlau, Kalomiris and the significantly-less-obscure Khachaturian.  ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: some guy on March 23, 2009, 11:28:09 AM
Lesser known than Beethoven, Haydn, Schumann, Mahler, Brahms, etc. Few of the composers mentioned so far get regular airing in our concert halls or have had many recordings. And I wonder how many members in this forum have heard all the symphonies mentioned so far. I bet the majority haven't heard the majority listed.

Sarge

I'm sure you're right. I was trying to make sense of the "(really)" in the subject line, but I "(really)" didn't think I was able to. I haven't heard all the symphonies mentioned so far, but there have only been a few composers mentioned so far that I haven't heard of, if not heard.

What I really think is that "lesser-known" cannot be made to carry much content. Lesser-known to whom? If I were to have mentioned Francis Dhomont's Frankenstein Symphony on this thread, maybe there would be a number of people who have never heard of it or of Dhomont. (And I might be the only one who has heard it.) But he's one of the better known electroacoustic composers, very well-known among people interested in those kinds of music. I doubt there's any one working in that field who has not at least heard of him.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: sul G on March 23, 2009, 11:43:47 AM
But most of the people mentioned so far are not really lesser-known, are they?

Berwald? Schmidt? Khrennikov? Langgaard? Really? (Actually, "Really" is not one of the composers.)

How about these, instead:

Günter Kochan, #2
Clarence Barlow, #1
Wilfried Krätzschmar, #2
Avet Terterian, #3
Frank Corcoran, #4
Alessandro Solbiati, #2

And if any of those are too well known (I'm really no judge of well-knownness, I confess), then substitute

Bolesław Szabelski, #5 or
Niels Viggo Bentzon, #7 (good example of one I would have thought too well known, but what do I know?

Do I get bonus points because I actually know some of these pieces?  ;D The Terterian is a good pick, I must say - an awesome piece, very original. The Corcoran I have still to feel as viscerally as this, but I haven't listened to it for a long time.

(I remember years ago at CI when Corcoran became something of a cause celebre, with vitriol heaped on his symphonies out of proportion to their fame or importance; I determined to hear what the fuss was about, so in fact the Corcoran disc was the first ever buy I made on the basis of a forum such as this one. Not the last, surprisingly...)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: mc ukrneal on March 23, 2009, 01:15:49 PM
I'm sure you're right. I was trying to make sense of the "(really)" in the subject line, but I "(really)" didn't think I was able to. I haven't heard all the symphonies mentioned so far, but there have only been a few composers mentioned so far that I haven't heard of, if not heard.

What I really think is that "lesser-known" cannot be made to carry much content. Lesser-known to whom? If I were to have mentioned Francis Dhomont's Frankenstein Symphony on this thread, maybe there would be a number of people who have never heard of it or of Dhomont. (And I might be the only one who has heard it.) But he's one of the better known electroacoustic composers, very well-known among people interested in those kinds of music. I doubt there's any one working in that field who has not at least heard of him.

One person's warhorse is another person's discovery... And sometimes the path to discovery isn't straight, so even though some of them are better known, there are still several that are new to me.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Benji on March 23, 2009, 04:13:16 PM
Off the top of my head, and nothing deliberately obscure!  $:)

Sallinen's 6th
Randall Thompson's 3rd
Tubin's 8th
Lilburn's 2nd
Another vote for Bernard Herrmann's Symphony
Moeran's Symphony

I don't consider these composers really lesser-known, but i'm a good few years (and thousands of pounds!) behind the likes of Jeffrey in my lesser-known composer rummaging!
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dundonnell on March 23, 2009, 06:59:06 PM
You should not expect much sense from me, Jeffrey, since 'lesser-known composers' are my stock-in-trade ;D The problem with that is that I am no longer able to differentiate 'lesser-known' from '(really) lesser-known' ;D

So....entirely off the top of my head and mostly from the first third of the alphabet:

Kalvei Aho's 10th
Richard Arnell's 3rd
Joly Braga Santos' 4th
Benjamin Frankel's 2nd
Alun Hoddinott's 6th
Arnold Rosner's 5th

....but most of these composers really aren't ('really) lesser-known' are they?
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dr. Dread on March 23, 2009, 07:04:13 PM
I'll listen to really lesser-known composers when I'm dead, and someone plays them for me in my coffin.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: snyprrr on March 23, 2009, 08:16:44 PM
If I had a trust fund, I would buy a cd every single hour of the day...

 (sung to Fiddler on the Roof)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Wanderer on March 23, 2009, 11:05:25 PM
Thanks for plugging one of my favorite symphonies, a favorite not only in this category (lesser-known composers) but a favorite symphony period. I considered listing it too but didn't want to come across like a broken record.

I feel the same way about it. A truly magnificent work. As for coming across as a broken record, worry not; in comparison to the listings of electroacoustic arrière-garde and other esoterica Schmidt appears as a mainstream choice.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Grazioso on March 24, 2009, 04:34:06 AM
One person's warhorse is another person's discovery... And sometimes the path to discovery isn't straight, so even though some of them are better known, there are still several that are new to me.

Exactly. Someone suggested Atterberg's "West Coast Pictures," which is quickly becoming a beloved warhorse for me and is known to more than a few posters here, yet many classical fans have surely yet to hear this gifted symphonist. Or to use another example, I first heard of Langgaard about ten years ago but have yet to listen to him, so it's nice to be reminded about him here. Happily, I see that a new complete boxed set is due shortly:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QgSVWJwoL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: schweitzeralan on March 24, 2009, 06:05:28 AM
While probably known to more than a few posters here, these guys mostly fall far outside the classical canon (alas):

Leevi Madetoja: Symphony No 1 (Finnish) Alba (though all three are excellent and available in fine performances on Chandos, too)

Joonas Kokkonen: Symphony No 4 (Finnish) Ondine

Erich Wolfgang Korngold: Symphony in F# Minor (Austro-Hungarian/American) EMI (relatively well-known composer, but I rarely hear this 20th-century masterwork mentioned)

William Mathias: Symphony No 3 (Welsh) Nimbus

Vagn Holmboe: Symphony No 3 "Sinfonia rustica" (Danish) BIS

Ned Rorem: Symphony No 3 (American) Naxos

(And akin to Korngold's situation, you have composers like Boccherini, Rimsky-Korsakov, etc. who are household names among classical fans but whose symphonies you might not have heard--but should!)

Several composers listed here are probably reasonably well known to the cognoscenti but may not be all that familiar witrh much of the general public.
Thank the gods they are recorded.  Six favorites, actually so many  postings here could list twenty or more.  My brief list would include the previously mentioned: Klaus Egge's First Symphony,a wonderful piece. Then there are: Uuno KLami's "Symphonie Enfantine," Dutilleux's Symphony No. 2 'Le Double'" (This work has been making some public inroads), Elliot Carter's Symphony No.3; Aulus Sallinen's first and third symphonies; Olav Kielands Sinfonia 1, and Bjarne Brustad's Symfoni No. 2.  Fine works all.


















se
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 24, 2009, 06:38:52 AM
Off the top of my head, and nothing deliberately obscure!  $:)

Sallinen's 6th
Randall Thompson's 3rd
Tubin's 8th
Lilburn's 2nd
Another vote for Bernard Herrmann's Symphony
Moeran's Symphony

I don't consider these composers really lesser-known, but i'm a good few years (and thousands of pounds!) behind the likes of Jeffrey in my lesser-known composer rummaging!

Yes, this is why Jeffrey has no money  ::) Your choices could be mine too, although I need to search out the Sallinen. I nearly included the Moeran but considered him not obscure enough  8)

My list No 2 (I am allowed two as I started the thread  ;D)

Boris Parsadanian: Symphony No 1 "To the Memory of the 26 Commissars of Baku"

Rudolph Simonsen: Symphony No 1 'Zion'

Arthur Butterworth : Symphony No 4 (Colin are you watching?  :o)

Moyzes: Symphony No 7

Truscott: Symphony in E major

Braga Santos (for it is he) Symphony No 3

I have tried to choose ones not already listed.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: some guy on March 24, 2009, 08:35:12 AM
in comparison to the listings of electroacoustic arrière-garde and other esoterica...

It's like Tourette's, isn't it? Any mention of any music that's not post- or neo-romantic and the knee jerks and the upper lip curls, because it has to. And the Dhomont reference (a list of one!)* wasn't even about electroacoustic music, but about "known-ness." Inside that particular circle, Dhomont is well-known, even revered, while outside it he's "(really) lesser-known."

*There is one piece on my list, in my post that has a list, that is an electroacoustic piece. A Schmidt CD to the first contestant who can identify which one it is! ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Renfield on March 24, 2009, 08:41:09 AM
Or to use another example, I first heard of Langgaard about ten years ago but have yet to listen to him, so it's nice to be reminded about him here. Happily, I see that a new complete boxed set is due shortly:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QgSVWJwoL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

More happily yet, I can confirm that said set is sitting on a table in my living room for around a week now, waiting to be explored! :D

(It was my trust for Dausgaard that prompted me to essentially pre-order this.)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Sef on March 24, 2009, 08:45:53 AM
Maybe the poster could define the phrase "lesser-known" so we can all participate in the thread without fear of falling prey to the "who can list the most obscure composer list" syndrome. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: sul G on March 24, 2009, 08:47:35 AM
Brahms is less well-known than Beethoven. I vote for him.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: mc ukrneal on March 24, 2009, 09:18:38 AM
Maybe the poster could define the phrase "lesser-known" so we can all participate in the thread without fear of falling prey to the "who can list the most obscure composer list" syndrome. Just a thought.

Actually, I like that people are interpreting it differently, giving a nice cross-section of less well known to really obscure. A little something for everyone...
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: J on March 24, 2009, 12:35:43 PM
Felix Blumenfeld - Symphony
Victor Bendix - Symphony No.3
Hallvard Johnsen - Symphony No.13
Leif Kayser - Symphony No.4
Arthur Meulemans - Symphony No.7
Guy Ropartz - Symphony No.3
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dundonnell on March 24, 2009, 06:34:18 PM
Ok...I am going to cheat too and give you another six(more obscure this time ;D(:


Halvor Haug's Symphony No.1(and No.3!)
Siegmund von Hausegger's Nature Symphony
Alf Hurum's Symphony in D minor
Kara Karayev's Symphony No.3
Paul Le Flem's Symphony No.4
Suburo Moroi's Symphony No.1
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Brian on March 24, 2009, 08:00:08 PM
Kara Karayev's Symphony No.3
One of the very few 12-tone works I can enjoy any time of day.  :)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich on March 24, 2009, 09:07:17 PM
My list includes (really) lesser-known composers, but not (really, really) or generally speaking (really(, really)*)... My life is finite and there is already enough (really) lesser-known to explore... The big question behind all this is: Are they lesser-known with good reason? Or maybe because of extramusical reasons (then their music may be interesting and worth a try)...

Braga Santos - No. 4
Rangström - No. 4
Bantock - Celtic
Atterberg - No. 3
Rott - E major
The GMG most hyPEd composer from Scandinavia - Symphony No. 6
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: some guy on March 24, 2009, 09:40:40 PM
I had a used copy of Haussegger's Nature Symphony playing at Classical Millenium a couple of months ago. Customer came in, said "What's that playing?" and bought it on the spot.

So I only have a vague idea of it's sounding a bit like Mahler. Is that correct? What's the whole thing like?

I also have a question for Brian--sorry, but you made me really curious when you said that Karayev's symphony was one of the very few 12-tone works you could enjoy any time of day--and that is, "How many 12-tone works have you heard?" The "very few" is supposed to make us think that you've heard lots, but I've heard lots and I enjoy very many of them. Well, maybe not any time of day. Be fair, no one enjoys 12-tone works between 3 and 6 in the morning. ;D

Anyway, now I'm really curious to hear Karayev's third, so it's all good....

[Just listened to some clips online. Hahaha, joke's on me, eh? It's not really 12-tone music, I mean, not any more than any other piece that uses all twelve notes in the chromatic scale. (I do know at least one that doesn't.)]
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 24, 2009, 11:39:31 PM
While probably known to more than a few posters here, these guys mostly fall far outside the classical canon (alas):

Leevi Madetoja: Symphony No 1 (Finnish) Alba (though all three are excellent and available in fine performances on Chandos, too)

Joonas Kokkonen: Symphony No 4 (Finnish) Ondine

Erich Wolfgang Korngold: Symphony in F# Minor (Austro-Hungarian/American) EMI (relatively well-known composer, but I rarely hear this 20th-century masterwork mentioned)

William Mathias: Symphony No 3 (Welsh) Nimbus

Vagn Holmboe: Symphony No 3 "Sinfonia rustica" (Danish) BIS

Ned Rorem: Symphony No 3 (American) Naxos

(And akin to Korngold's situation, you have composers like Boccherini, Rimsky-Korsakov, etc. who are household names among classical fans but whose symphonies you might not have heard--but should!)


Apart from the Rorem, which I am going to listen to again, your other choices are all favourites  of mine - although I'd have chosen Madetoja Symphony No 2.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 24, 2009, 11:43:44 PM
Richard Wetz Symphonies 1, 2, 3 various conductors and orchestras, CPO

Bernard Herrmann Symphony Herrmann/National Phil, Unicorn

Tikhon Khrennikov Symphony #2 Svetlanov/USSR State Academy, Vox

Edouard Lalo Symphony G minor Almeida/Orch Monte-Carlo, Philips

John McEwen A Solway Symphony Mitchell/LPO, Chandos

Mikis Theodorakis Symphony #7 "Spring" Hauschild/Phil Dresden, Sound Wings

Sarge

Very interesting choices. I have a CD of some of the Wetz symphonies, which I shall be listening to again as I did not make much of them initially - this is also true of the Theodarakis. It is nice to be encouraged to go back and listen again to CDs that I already have rather than having to rush out to buy new ones! The McEwen is a firm favourite. I don't know the Lalo and the Herrmann and Khrennikov are also interesting works which I often go back to - the Khrennikov is a recent discovery.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 24, 2009, 11:47:01 PM
Harrison Symphony #3
Harbison Symphony #2
Shapero: Symphony for Classical Orchestra
Yun: Symphony # 4 (Well, any of them, really)
Lyatoshinsky Symphony #3

Well, I do not consider any of the above names really really lesser-known (save Shapero). But based on the names mentioned so far, I guess they'd quality.

I'd have probably gone for Harrison Symphony No 2, although I like No 3 as well. Yun I must listen to - Lyatoshinsky: Symphony No 3 - YES - a great score (I like all five symphonies).
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 24, 2009, 11:49:54 PM
You should not expect much sense from me, Jeffrey, since 'lesser-known composers' are my stock-in-trade ;D The problem with that is that I am no longer able to differentiate 'lesser-known' from '(really) lesser-known' ;D

So....entirely off the top of my head and mostly from the first third of the alphabet:

Kalvei Aho's 10th
Richard Arnell's 3rd
Joly Braga Santos' 4th
Benjamin Frankel's 2nd
Alun Hoddinott's 6th
Arnold Rosner's 5th



....but most of these composers really aren't ('really) lesser-known' are they?

Count me in for these (I only know Aho No 4, which I like very much) - nice to see a vote for Rosner's 5th  :)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 24, 2009, 11:53:19 PM
Actually, I like that people are interpreting it differently, giving a nice cross-section of less well known to really obscure. A little something for everyone...

I think that's my thought too.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Wanderer on March 25, 2009, 12:21:49 AM
It's like Tourette's, isn't it? Any mention of any music that's not post- or neo-romantic and the knee jerks and the upper lip curls, because it has to. And the Dhomont reference (a list of one!)* wasn't even about electroacoustic music, but about "known-ness." Inside that particular circle, Dhomont is well-known, even revered, while outside it he's "(really) lesser-known."

*There is one piece on my list, in my post that has a list, that is an electroacoustic piece. A Schmidt CD to the first contestant who can identify which one it is! ;D

Off topic mostly. This isn’t another modernists vs. universe thread of which we’ve seen plenty. Perhaps you’d be interested in reviving one of those?
My comment that somehow irked you was also directed at "known-ness"/recognizability. It goes without saying of course that the relations and differences between the relatively unknown, the really obscure and the blatantly esoteric come in many gradations (and levels of pretentiousness). There have appeared some very interesting lists of works on this thread from all three categories so far; many paths to explore.  8)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Christo on March 25, 2009, 12:23:59 AM
I'm intrigued to see that most of us here opt for lesser-known 20th century symphonies. One of the ujoys of this forum is the steady discovery of one of the 20th century's hidden strenghts: the creation of so many superb symphonic cycles.

As I don't consider symphonic masters like e.g. Holmboe, Braga Santos, Tubin or Englund "lesser-known" composers, I would rather opt for these five seconds and one third:

Matthijs Vermeulen 2 `Prélude à la nouvelle journée' (1920)
Léon Orthel 2 `Piccola' (1940)
Camargo Guarnieri 2 `Uirapuru' (1945)
William Wordsworth 2 (1948)
Ulvi Cemâl Erkin 2 (1954)
John Kinsella 3 `Joi de Vivre' (1990)

Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: mc ukrneal on March 25, 2009, 12:56:53 AM
I'm intrigued to see that most of us here opt for lesser-known 20th century symphonies. One of the ujoys of this forum is the steady discovery of one of the 20th century's hidden strenghts: the creation of so many superb symphonic cycles.

As I don't consider symphonic masters like e.g. Holmboe, Braga Santos, Tubin or Englund "lesser-known" composers, I would rather opt for these five seconds and one third:

Matthijs Vermeulen 2 `Prélude à la nouvelle journée' (1920)
Léon Orthel 2 `Piccola' (1940)
Camargo Guarnieri 2 `Uirapuru' (1945)
William Wordsworth 2 (1948)
Ulvi Cemâl Erkin 2 (1954)
John Kinsella 3 `Joi de Vivre' (1990)



Some are and some are not. But even that is debateable. Some are written in the 20th century, but are more romantic in nature (like Langaard), while others are from even earlier. I contemplated some of the 18th century (and early 19th centry) guys like Pleyel, Kozeluch, Marsh, etc., but I find it hard to pick one from that style and era, especially when the form was still developing. But I would still recommend them, and I would add others like Vranicky, Tomasek, Krommer, Gyrowetz, Pichl.., etc (and even Weber, who is well known, but his symphonies are not), to the list.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Teresa on March 25, 2009, 01:44:18 AM
Interesting list so far, my six favorite symphonies by lesser-known composers have not been listed yet, so here goes:

JOHAN DE MEIJ: Symphony No. 1 "Lord of the Rings"
JOHAN DE MEIJ: Symphony No. 3 "Planet Earth"
SUNLEIF RASMUSSEN: Symphony No. 1 "Oceanic Days"
GAVRIIL POPOV: Symphony No. 1, Op. 7
JOSEF SUK: Asrael: Symphony for Large Orchestra in C Minor, Op. 27
EDUARD TUBIN: Symphony No. 5 in B Minor
 
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 25, 2009, 02:20:16 AM
I'm intrigued to see that most of us here opt for lesser-known 20th century symphonies. One of the ujoys of this forum is the steady discovery of one of the 20th century's hidden strenghts: the creation of so many superb symphonic cycles.

As I don't consider symphonic masters like e.g. Holmboe, Braga Santos, Tubin or Englund "lesser-known" composers, I would rather opt for these five seconds and one third:

Matthijs Vermeulen 2 `Prélude à la nouvelle journée' (1920)
Léon Orthel 2 `Piccola' (1940)
Camargo Guarnieri 2 `Uirapuru' (1945)
William Wordsworth 2 (1948)
Ulvi Cemâl Erkin 2 (1954)
John Kinsella 3 `Joi de Vivre' (1990)

I think that this must be the only other time I've seen John Kinsella mentioned here. I totally agree, his Symphony No 3 is a wonderful score - I was attracted to it when a reviewer said that it had echoes of Tubin and Lilburn - I knew then that it was a must for me! He sent me the most charming reply to my fan letter. Guarnieri Symphony 2 (and 3) -YES! Orthel I have discovered (at enormous expense) thanks to you and I do not regret it (I also have you to thank for Alphons Diepenbrock's Marsyas Concert Suite and Vermeulen). Never heard of Erkin.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 25, 2009, 02:24:13 AM
Interesting list so far, my six favorite symphonies by lesser-known composers have not been listed yet, so here goes:

JOHAN DE MEIJ: Symphony No. 1 "Lord of the Rings"
JOHAN DE MEIJ: Symphony No. 3 "Planet Earth"
SUNLEIF RASMUSSEN: Symphony No. 1 "Oceanic Days"
GAVRIIL POPOV: Symphony No. 1, Op. 7
JOSEF SUK: Asrael: Symphony for Large Orchestra in C Minor, Op. 27
EDUARD TUBIN: Symphony No. 5 in B Minor
 

Most interesting list - although the Suk and Tubin are perhaps less obscure these days. The Popov is a terrific score which IMHO, along with Weinberg's 4th Symphony, stands alongside Shostakovich's 4th Symphony. Popov's 2nd and 6th symphonies are also favourites.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Grazioso on March 25, 2009, 04:29:37 AM
Apart from the Rorem, which I am going to listen to again, your other choices are all favourites  of mine - although I'd have chosen Madetoja Symphony No 2.

One thing I love about Madetoja is that his three symphonies are all strong and all dissimilar: each has its own flavor and unique merits. Which one I'd call a favorite depends on the day of the week :) Actually, I do tend to prefer 1 and 3, the former for its hypnotic, nocturnal slow movement and the latter for its surprisingly Gallic flair--not your typical Scandinavian fare. 2 would be the one I'd recommend first for fans of heavy, serious Late Romantic symphonies a la Mahler and Co. Either way, Madetoja's music deserves much wider dissemination. It has real substance and craftsmanship. It's a shame he wrote relatively little.

As for Rorem, he's no towering orchestral master, but his symphonies are fine works with some beautiful themes and a distinctly American sound. I actually tend to prefer Diamond and some of the other Yanks more, but I figured Rorem was less well known, despite his acknowledgment having undergone quite a renaissance in recent years.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Sorin Eushayson on March 25, 2009, 04:57:51 AM
Right now I'm obsessed with the F-Sharp Minor symphony of George Frederick Bristow, a Brooklyn-born composer.  As far as I know it's the only one of his works recorded, which is a shame since this one is so good!
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Christo on March 25, 2009, 05:05:53 AM
One thing I love about Madetoja is that his three symphonies are all strong and all dissimilar: each has its own flavor and unique merits. Which one I'd call a favorite depends on the day of the week :) Actually, I do tend to prefer 1 and 3, the former for its hypnotic, nocturnal slow movement and the latter for its surprisingly Gallic flair--not your typical Scandinavian fare. 2 would be the one I'd recommend first for fans of heavy, serious Late Romantic symphonies a la Mahler and Co. Either way, Madetoja's music deserves much wider dissemination. It has real substance and craftsmanship. It's a shame he wrote relatively little.

Totally agree on Madetoja. But is he really "really" unknown? Anyhow, time for another favourite sextet:

Johan Willem Wilms 7 (c. 1836)
Hendrik Andriessen 3 (1946)
Eugene Goossens 1 (1940)
Arnold Cooke 3 (1967)
Andrei Eshpai 7 (1992)
Pēteris Vasks 2 (1999)

Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 25, 2009, 05:43:29 AM
Totally agree on Madetoja. But is he really "really" unknown? Anyhow, time for another favourite sextet:

Johan Willem Wilms 7 (c. 1836)
Hendrik Andriessen 3 (1946)
Eugene Goossens 1 (1940)
Arnold Cooke 3 (1967)
Andrei Eshpai 7 (1992)
Pēteris Vasks 2 (1999)



Don't know the first two but the others are all favourites. Excellent booklet notes with the Vasks  ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 25, 2009, 06:09:45 AM
OK, here we go again.  Like Christo, I'm now going for really,really, really lesser-known composers.


Clifford: Symphony 1940

Bainton: Symphony No 3

Goossens: Symphony 2

Shebalin: Symphony No 1

Arnell: Symphony No 5

A J Potter: Sinfonia "De Profundis"
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Brewski on March 25, 2009, 07:09:19 AM
I'm enjoying this thread a great deal, especially since many of these composers are not familiar to me.

A few of my faves that haven't been mentioned (I think), although these two composers aren't as lesser-known as others:

James MacMillan: Symphony No. 3, "Silence" (2002)
Carl Vine: MicroSymphony (1986)

--Bruce
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dundonnell on March 25, 2009, 08:14:24 AM
OK, here we go again.  Like Christo, I'm now going for really,really, really lesser-known composers.


Clifford: Symphony 1940

Bainton: Symphony No 3

Goossens: Symphony 2

Shebalin: Symphony No 1

Arnell: Symphony No 5

A J Potter: Sinfonia "De Profundis"

Does Katy know that you started this thread to seek out recommendations for more cds to buy, Jeffrey ??? ::)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dundonnell on March 25, 2009, 08:16:51 AM
I'm intrigued to see that most of us here opt for lesser-known 20th century symphonies. One of the ujoys of this forum is the steady discovery of one of the 20th century's hidden strenghts: the creation of so many superb symphonic cycles.

As I don't consider symphonic masters like e.g. Holmboe, Braga Santos, Tubin or Englund "lesser-known" composers, I would rather opt for these five seconds and one third:

Matthijs Vermeulen 2 `Prélude à la nouvelle journée' (1920)
Léon Orthel 2 `Piccola' (1940)
Camargo Guarnieri 2 `Uirapuru' (1945)
William Wordsworth 2 (1948)
Ulvi Cemâl Erkin 2 (1954)
John Kinsella 3 `Joi de Vivre' (1990)



Ha, Wordsworth's 2nd, Johan....excellent :)

Kinsella No.3  should have been on my list too :)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Christo on March 25, 2009, 08:24:45 AM
Ha, Wordsworth's 2nd, Johan....excellent :)   ;)

And I never heard either the MacMillan or the Vine symphony.  :o Again, many other candidates that where not yet mentioned yet (AFAICS) spring to mind:

Willem Pijper 2 (1921)
Cecil Armstrong Gibbs 3 `Westmoreland' (1943)
Jón Leifs `Saga Symphony' (1943)
Colin McPhee 2 (1957)
Ahmed Adnan Saygun 2 (1957)
Robert Simpson 9 (1987)


Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Mr. Darcy on March 25, 2009, 03:36:25 PM
Rott: Symphony in E major
Schmidt: Symphony No.2 in E flat major
Stenhammar: Symphony No.2 in G minor, Op.34
Mennin: Symphony No.3
Schmidt: Symphony No.4 in C major
Piston: Symphony No.6
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 25, 2009, 04:13:37 PM
Does Katy know that you started this thread to seek out recommendations for more cds to buy, Jeffrey ??? ::)

What do you think Colin?  ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 25, 2009, 04:19:51 PM
And I never heard either the MacMillan or the Vine symphony.  :o Again, many other candidates that where not yet mentioned yet (AFAICS) spring to mind:

Willem Pijper 2 (1921)
Cecil Armstrong Gibbs 3 `Westmoreland' (1943)
Jón Leifs `Saga Symphony' (1943)
Colin McPhee 2 (1957)
Ahmed Adnan Saygun 2 (1957)
Robert Simpson 9 (1987)




Armstrong Gibbs and Saygun - excellent choices. The 'Westmorland' is especially good - dedicated in memory of Armstrong Gibbs's son, killed in World War Two. I sense the impending formation of the so-called AGE (Armstrong Gibbs Experts) ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: snyprrr on March 25, 2009, 10:35:00 PM
this is like watching high stakes poker...I'll see your Langston Yardley Smith No.4 in g#minor...

you guys are good!!!
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Christo on March 26, 2009, 01:20:09 AM
I sense the impending formation of the so-called AGE (Armstrong Gibbs Experts) ;D

 ;D

Dundonnell actually owns the recent release of Gibb's choaral symphony (the Second) Odysseus (1946). No doubt he will start a thread on the composer?  ;)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dundonnell on March 26, 2009, 07:19:13 AM
;D

Dundonnell actually owns the recent release of Gibb's choaral symphony (the Second) Odysseus (1946). No doubt he will start a thread on the composer?  ;)

If you are suggesting a thread about Armstrong Gibbs I could certainly start one. He is on my 'possible threads' list(along with Cooke, Fricker, Gardner, Hamilton, Jacob, Mathias, Milner, Stevens, Still....and those are just the British composers!).
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Sef on March 26, 2009, 09:05:42 AM
Saygun (1)
Most Hyped (6)
Hartmann (6)
Langgaard (4)
Kallstenius (Dalecarlia)
Weinberg (4)

... and can I say that every one of the above was as a result of recommendations on this board - Thanks.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Maciek on March 26, 2009, 11:30:35 AM
Brahms is less well-known than Beethoven. I vote for him.

Ha, ha, ha. I'll second that. I especially like the last two (of the six).
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Sorin Eushayson on March 26, 2009, 03:41:03 PM
How about John Knowles Paine's two symphonies?  I'd certainly nominate those two.  Oh, and the symphonies of Sir Franz Berwald!  :)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 26, 2009, 03:53:17 PM
this is like watching high stakes poker...I'll see your Langston Yardley Smith No.4 in g#minor...

you guys are good!!!

V funny  ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 26, 2009, 03:55:19 PM
Saygun (1)
Most Hyped (6)
Hartmann (6)
Langgaard (4)
Kallstenius (Dalecarlia)
Weinberg (4)

... and can I say that every one of the above was as a result of recommendations on this board - Thanks.


Weinberg Symphony 5 is his greatest I think.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Sef on March 26, 2009, 04:12:31 PM
Weinberg Symphony 5 is his greatest I think.
I started with 5 a while back after a recommendation from you I believe! Just happened I was reading reviews on amazon.com for other CDs and came across 4 (with the Rhapsody on Moldavian Themes). Fell in love with it there and then.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 27, 2009, 02:27:46 AM
I started with 5 a while back after a recommendation from you I believe! Just happened I was reading reviews on amazon.com for other CDs and came across 4 (with the Rhapsody on Moldavian Themes). Fell in love with it there and then.

Right, I shall be listening to No 4 today! The choral No 6 is my other favourite.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Daverz on March 28, 2009, 06:36:05 AM
I don't think these have been mentioned yet.  Some of these may not be "lesser known" enough.

Ludolf Nielsen 3
Alwyn 4
Fibich 3
Creston 3
Blomdahl 3

Somewhat more known composers:

Raff 5 (works best if you think of it as very good light music)
Sessions 3
Chausson
Arnold 5
Bliss Color Symphony
Randall Thompson 2
Chavez 4 (sounds like an hommage to Piston's 4th)
Schmidt 3 (Well the others were taken.  This one is quite different from the other 3, almost more French than Viennese, and I'm very fond of it.)
Holmboe 4

Already mentioned:

Gade 1
Braga Santos 4

Symphonists in general: Langgaard, Tubin, Miaskovsky, Weinberg/Vainberg


The one I have spinning now on the deck is pretty nice, Symphony in A by Otakar Ostrčil.

Some comments on other symphonies:

Shapero: Bernstein makes this sound like a great work.  Previn is dull.

Suk Asrael: There are several good recordings, but Kubelik makes me believe in this works greatness.  Unfortunately may be hard to find.

Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: some guy on March 28, 2009, 09:36:57 AM
I've been enjoying another stroll through my collection, particularly the Musik in Deutschland treasure trove. So here's six more favourites.

Robert Kurka, #2
Poul Ruders, Symphony
Friedrich Goldmann, #1 & #3
Dieter Schnebel, Symphony pieces for large orchestra
Gunter Kochan, #5
Manfred Trojahn, #3
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 28, 2009, 03:11:52 PM
I've been enjoying another stroll through my collection, particularly the Musik in Deutschland treasure trove. So here's six more favourites.

Robert Kurka, #2
Poul Ruders, Symphony
Friedrich Goldmann, #1 & #3
Dieter Schnebel, Symphony pieces for large orchestra
Gunter Kochan, #5
Manfred Trojahn, #3


The first two are excellent - don't know the others (yet ;D)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 28, 2009, 03:14:18 PM
Suk Asrael: There are several good recordings, but Kubelik makes me believe in this works greatness.  Unfortunately may be hard to find.

I just bought the new Ashkenazy/Helsinki recording today (Ondine), which also convinces me of the work's greatness.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Teresa on March 28, 2009, 06:31:55 PM
I just bought the new Ashkenazy/Helsinki recording today (Ondine), which also convinces me of the work's greatness.

I'll second that recommendation, it's also the version I have. 

(http://www.sa-cd.net/covers/5701.jpg)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Wanderer on March 29, 2009, 01:17:50 AM
I'm yet to be convinced; I just think it's very worthwhile (and third the Ashkenazy recommendation).
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Christo on March 29, 2009, 01:55:40 AM
I've been enjoying another stroll through my collection, particularly the Musik in Deutschland treasure trove. So here's six more favourites.

Robert Kurka, #2
Poul Ruders, Symphony
Friedrich Goldmann, #1 & #3
Dieter Schnebel, Symphony pieces for large orchestra
Gunter Kochan, #5
Manfred Trojahn, #3

That's the sort of inspiring list I love, for I don't know any of these except for an occasional listen to Ruders'. (Always considered the Symphony dead in Germany except for Hartmann, and Germany in the 20th Century mostly a `Land ohne Musik' - taking my refuge to more civilised British and Baltic shores).  ;)

Time for my own daily update. Some more of the not-really-unknown-yet-not-universally-played-and-known-either favourites-of-mine that sprung to mind again on reading this thread:

Rued Langaard 4 `Løvfald' (1916/20) (nominated before)
Joaquin Turina Sinfonía sevillana (1920)
William Grant Still 1 `Afro-American' (1930/35)
Arthur Meulemans 3 `Dennensymfonie' (Fir Symphony) (1933) (mentioned before, I think)
Leo Smit (The Dutch composer, not his American namesake; murdered in Sobibor) `Sijmphonie in C' (1936)
Cláudio Santoro 5 (1955)


Edit: oops, had miss spelled "fir" as "fur" ....  :-\ I mean the tree though, as did this Flemish composer (whose name is translated as "Miller" BTW).


Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Teresa on March 29, 2009, 03:52:21 AM
... Time for my own daily update. Some more of the not-really-unknown-yet-not-universally-played-and-known-either favourites-of-mine that sprung to mind again on reading this thread:

Rued Langaard 4 `Løvfald' (1916/20) (nominated before)
Joaquin Turina Sinfonía sevillana (1920)
William Grant Still 1 `Afro-American' (1930/35)
Arthur Meulemans 3 `Dennensymfonie' (Fur Symphony) (1933) (mentioned before, I think)
Leo Smit (The Dutch composer, not his American namesake; murdered in Sobibor) `Sijmphonie in C' (1936)
Cláudio Santoro 5 (1955)

I really love Turina's Sinfonía sevillana and William Grant Still's `Afro-American' Symphony.  I haven't heard the others, so many new composers I've discovered thanks to this thread.  Thanks everyone!  ;)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 30, 2009, 06:50:23 AM
That's the sort of inspiring list I love, for I don't know any of these except for an occasional listen to Ruders'. (Always considered the Symphony dead in Germany except for Hartmann, and Germany in the 20th Century mostly a `Land ohne Musik' - taking my refuge to more civilised British and Baltic shores).  ;)

Time for my own daily update. Some more of the not-really-unknown-yet-not-universally-played-and-known-either favourites-of-mine that sprung to mind again on reading this thread:

Rued Langaard 4 `Løvfald' (1916/20) (nominated before)
Joaquin Turina Sinfonía sevillana (1920)
William Grant Still 1 `Afro-American' (1930/35)
Arthur Meulemans 3 `Dennensymfonie' (Fir Symphony) (1933) (mentioned before, I think)
Leo Smit (The Dutch composer, not his American namesake; murdered in Sobibor) `Sijmphonie in C' (1936)
Cláudio Santoro 5 (1955)


Edit: oops, had miss spelled "fir" as "fur" ....  :-\ I mean the tree though, as did this Flemish composer (whose name is translated as "Miller" BTW).


Yes, Langaard Symphony No 4 - my favourite of his works and a vote for nos 6 and 10 too.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Ten thumbs on March 30, 2009, 02:08:49 PM
Alice Smith is lesser-known today but well regarded in her day. A Mendelssohnian Victorian whose two symphonies have the merit of containing memorable themes and I am quite happy to hear them again.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: jimmosk on March 30, 2009, 03:54:55 PM
What a fabulous idea for a thread, vandermolen! (Okay, I'm a bit biased...)  Here are mine, in chronological order:

George Stephanescu: Symphony in A Major (1869)
Felix Blumenfeld: Symphony in C minor, "To the Beloved Dead" (1908)
Werner Josten: Symphony in F (1936)
Sergei Bortkiewicz: Symphony No. 2 in E flat Major (1937)
Kaljo Raid: Symphony No. 1 (1944)
Jan Carlstedt: Symphony #2 "A Symphony of Brotherhood" (1969)


...now to go update my "seek out" list with recommendations from this thread!
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dundonnell on March 30, 2009, 05:09:16 PM
Actually, I think that this is a dreadful thread, started by a man who, not content with smuggling more and more cds into his own house in a vain attempt to conceal his ever-growing cd collection from his poor wife, is now offering an open opportunity for other people to advertise and recommend a mushrooming mass of obscure symphonies to the membership of this site ;D

The result of this will be to persuade some of us-those of us, that is, who cannot resist the temptation of acquiring such works(and, sadly, I include myself in such a group)-to seek out and purchase more and more music. This may be no great hardship-and, indeed, a source of infinite pleasure for those who can easily afford this unexpected additional expense-but for others it may result in further indebtdedness and ultimate penury.

When my pension runs out, Jeffrey, I shall blame you for leading me into adding a further substantial number of cds to my 'to buy now!' list ;D

Already ordered-within the last few minutes-is jimmosk's recommendation of Werner Josten's Symphony in F. I had never heard of Werner Josten but after reading the review-

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2001/Feb01/jungle.htm

...I knew that I just HAD to have it! ;D

Thanks, Jeffrey, and all those others who have mentioned symphonies I had never heard of!

(From a sadly insatiable 'obscure symphonies collector')
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 31, 2009, 11:56:27 AM
Actually, I think that this is a dreadful thread, started by a man who, not content with smuggling more and more cds into his own house in a vain attempt to conceal his ever-growing cd collection from his poor wife, is now offering an open opportunity for other people to advertise and recommend a mushrooming mass of obscure symphonies to the membership of this site ;D

The result of this will be to persuade some of us-those of us, that is, who cannot resist the temptation of acquiring such works(and, sadly, I include myself in such a group)-to seek out and purchase more and more music. This may be no great hardship-and, indeed, a source of infinite pleasure for those who can easily afford this unexpected additional expense-but for others it may result in further indebtdedness and ultimate penury.

When my pension runs out, Jeffrey, I shall blame you for leading me into adding a further substantial number of cds to my 'to buy now!' list ;D

Already ordered-within the last few minutes-is jimmosk's recommendation of Werner Josten's Symphony in F. I had never heard of Werner Josten but after reading the review-

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2001/Feb01/jungle.htm

...I knew that I just HAD to have it! ;D

Thanks, Jeffrey, and all those others who have mentioned symphonies I had never heard of!

(From a sadly insatiable 'obscure symphonies collector')

hehe - but I think that this is clearly a case of 'the pot calling the kettle black' - Simonsen, Arthur Butterworth, Bo Linde, Ludvig Jensen etcetcetc (both CDs arrived today - fortunately Katy is away  ;D)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 31, 2009, 12:03:17 PM
What a fabulous idea for a thread, vandermolen! (Okay, I'm a bit biased...)  Here are mine, in chronological order:

George Stephanescu: Symphony in A Major (1869)
Felix Blumenfeld: Symphony in C minor, "To the Beloved Dead" (1908)
Werner Josten: Symphony in F (1936)
Sergei Bortkiewicz: Symphony No. 2 in E flat Major (1937)
Kaljo Raid: Symphony No. 1 (1944)
Jan Carlstedt: Symphony #2 "A Symphony of Brotherhood" (1969)


...now to go update my "seek out" list with recommendations from this thread!


Thank you! Unlike Colin you clearly recognise an A1 thread when you see it  :)

Very interesting choice, although I know few of them - Kaljo Raid's Symphony was on my list too. A moving and powerful score in the spirit of his teacher - the great Tubin.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dundonnell on March 31, 2009, 12:15:39 PM
I suspect that you know where "the pot"'s tongue was lodged, Jeffrey ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 31, 2009, 01:03:02 PM
I suspect that you know where "the pot"'s tongue was lodged, Jeffrey ;D

Very much so  :)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Christo on March 31, 2009, 01:26:44 PM
Already ordered-within the last few minutes-is jimmosk's recommendation of Werner Josten's Symphony in F. I had never heard of Werner Josten but after reading the review-

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2001/Feb01/jungle.htm

...I knew that I just HAD to have it! ;D 

Werner Josten! As soon as I read this review, I realized I once played his The Jungle, possibly over 30 years ago and probably this very same recording. And I vaguely rembember to have enjoyed it. It feels like An Old Memory Found It's Way Back Home Again. So I, too, ordered for this cd.  ;)

                               (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517SQ5MWMFL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dundonnell on March 31, 2009, 01:43:34 PM
Werner Josten! As soon as I read this review, I realized I once played his The Jungle, possibly over 30 years ago and probably this very same recording. And I vaguely rembember to have enjoyed it. It feels like An Old Memory Found It's Way Back Home Again. So I, too, ordered for this cd.  ;)

                               (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517SQ5MWMFL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

We shall compare notes in due course then ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: snyprrr on March 31, 2009, 05:55:57 PM
OK, maybe you guys can help me.

Let's say my fav syms. are HARRIS NO.3, SIBELIUS No.7, MARTINU No.6 and the opening of PETTERSSON No.8.  Does that give you an idea of what I'm looking for?

Which of the syms. already mentioned fit this mold?
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Christo on April 01, 2009, 12:12:13 AM
We shall compare notes in due course then ;D

At the Josten's Jungle thread perpaps, started by you.  ;) But really, I think I never read his name anymore, in a timespan of some 30 years. Amazing, a composer completely forgotten, though my New Grove's has a substantial entry on this American composer of German birth (1885-1963, American citizen since the ominous year 1933).

As I don't feel qualified to answer snyprrr's question (I love Martinů's Fantaisies symphoniques but am less familiar with the other three, not even Sibelius 7 ...  :-X), let me add some more titles for Kathy's Secret Christmas Presents List:

Portugal: Luís de Freitas Branco 1 (1924)
Uk: Granville Bantock, Celtic Symphony (1940)
New Zealand: Douglas Lilburn 2 (1951)
UK: Elisabeth Maconcy, Symphony for Double String Orchestra (1953)
Azerbaijan: Kara Karayev 3 (1964)
Hungary: Antal Doráti 2 `Querela Pacis' (c 1985)



 
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on April 01, 2009, 03:52:57 AM
OK, maybe you guys can help me.

Let's say my fav syms. are HARRIS NO.3, SIBELIUS No.7, MARTINU No.6 and the opening of PETTERSSON No.8.  Does that give you an idea of what I'm looking for?

Which of the syms. already mentioned fit this mold?

Some, which come to mind, although they may not have been mentioned yet are:

Lilburn symphonies 1 and 2 (on Naxos)
Kinsella Symphony 3 (Marco Polo)
Moeran Symphony (EMI/Naxos etc)
William Schuman Symphony 3 (Naxos)
Robin Orr: Symphony in One ovement (EMI)
Rubbra: Symphony No 5 (EMI/Chandos)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: snyprrr on April 01, 2009, 11:15:59 AM
OK...yes...haven't heard Lilburn or Kinsella (though, after THIS thread, the are now certainly not reallly lesser known :D)

Popped in my head- Colin McPhee Sym. No2

I think I have it on a Canadien cd...EVERYTHING on that album is beautifully Pacific...very much like Diamond's Sym. 4.

I feel the need to say that I "discovered" the Gorecki No.3 (on KochSchwann) while he WAS still reallly really unknown....so.....

there!
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: snyprrr on April 01, 2009, 11:19:57 AM

 not even Sibelius 7 ...  :-X),
[/quote] :o :o :o

No?.....really?....uh :o...shocking!!! $:)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Christo on April 01, 2009, 12:12:49 PM
not even Sibelius 7 ...  :-X),
 :o :o :o

No?.....really?....uh :o...shocking!!! $:)

It is.  :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-[ :-[ :-\ :-\ :-\ :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( ::) 8) :-X :-X :-X :-\ :'(

But.

At least I can say I admire Sibelius 4 and 5, Tapiola, Luonnotar. And that I love the early Sibelius as e.g. the programmatic symphonies (both Kullervo and Lemminkäinen, but the latter did'nt survive as a symphony and is only known as a couple of seperate pieces).

(At the other hand: I never overcame my total shock at hearing Sibelius 1-3, especially the Second Symphony, a symphony that I found utterly vulgar 30 years ago, and I still hold to that extraordinary opinion). I am very sorry indeed.)  :-X ;) :)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: techniquest on April 01, 2009, 12:51:49 PM
I agree that a thread like this can be rather tough on the wallet! My six at the moment would be:

Karen Khachaturian - Symphony No.4
Cornelis Dopper - Symphony No.7
Langgaard - Symphony No.11 "Ixion"
Yoshimatsu - Symphony No.2 "At Terra"
Alexander Tchaikovsky - Symphony No.4
Jay Greenberg - Symphony No.5
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dundonnell on April 01, 2009, 06:06:07 PM
It is.  :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-[ :-[ :-\ :-\ :-\ :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( ::) 8) :-X :-X :-X :-\ :'(

But.

At least I can say I admire Sibelius 4 and 5, Tapiola, Luonnotar. And that I love the early Sibelius as e.g. the programmatic symphonies (both Kullervo and Lemminkäinen, but the latter did'nt survive as a symphony and is only known as a couple of seperate pieces).

(At the other hand: I never overcame my total shock at hearing Sibelius 1-3, especially the Second Symphony, a symphony that I found utterly vulgar 30 years ago, and I still hold to that extraordinary opinion). I am very sorry indeed.)  :-X ;) :)

I too am speechless that you seem to be unfamiliar with the Sibelius 7th, Johan! A work of pure genius :)

(Actually...don't spread it around...but I am not keen on the Sibelius 2nd either :) When I was a teenager I had a friend who used to play it so often that I got utterly sick of the piece and that feeling has never gone away ;D)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Xenophanes on April 02, 2009, 06:30:11 PM
Boyce, Symphony No. 1

Kraus, Symphony in C Major, "Violin obbligato," VB 138

Vanhal, Symphony in A Major, Bryan A9

Berwald, Symphony No. 3

Mayuzumi, Nirvana Symphony

Hovhaness, Symphony No. 50, "Mount St. Helen's

Lilburn wrote 3 nice symphonies, but I'm over the limit.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on April 03, 2009, 04:14:01 AM
OK...yes...haven't heard Lilburn or Kinsella (though, after THIS thread, the are now certainly not reallly lesser known :D)

Popped in my head- Colin McPhee Sym. No2

I think I have it on a Canadien cd...EVERYTHING on that album is beautifully Pacific...very much like Diamond's Sym. 4.

I feel the need to say that I "discovered" the Gorecki No.3 (on KochSchwann) while he WAS still reallly really unknown....so.....

there!

I too discovered the Gorecki when it was largely unknown. I got into a long conversation about music with the coach driver during a school trip I was accompanying many years ago. He sent me a tape of the symphony. I was a bit put out when it entered the pop music charts :o

I used to not like Sibelius's 2nd Symphony but have learned to appreciate it recently - especially the ending and especially in Beecham's recordings. Nice to see a recommendation for Yoshimatsu's Second Symphony 'At Terra'.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Brian on April 03, 2009, 08:08:45 AM
Karen Khachaturian - Symphony No.4
Alexander Tchaikovsky - Symphony No.4
I sense a "famous composer's namesakes" trend. You should try Boris Tchaikovsky, too.  :)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: jimmosk on April 03, 2009, 04:39:52 PM
And Daverz has also recommended Ludolf Nielsen's 3rd.

While I wouldn't call it a favorite, Siegfried Wagner's symphony is also pretty good -- and unexpectedly Mahlerian.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: snyprrr on April 03, 2009, 05:03:41 PM
Ha...the more you guys throw syms at me, the stronger my resolve to enjoy what I already have grows!!! 0:) 

weakness!!! weakness I say!!! $:)

ahh...life with no cares...
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: snyprrr on April 03, 2009, 05:04:39 PM
BUT PLEASE... keep em comin' ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: WeRoica on May 13, 2009, 11:31:58 PM
Rued Langgaard      --> 2  "Vaarbrud"  - 1912-14
Kurt Atterberg        --> 7  "Sinfonia Romantica", Op. 45  - 1942
Dag Wiren              --> 2  Op. 14 - 1963
Joachim Raff           --> 8  "Frülingsklange", Op. 205  - 1876
Niels Gade              --> 4   in B flat major, Op.20 - 1842
Alice Mary Smith     --> in A minor  -  1876
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: not edward on May 14, 2009, 07:15:55 AM
I don't think I'd seen this particular iteration of this thread before, though I've contributed to previous ones.

It was good to see mention of Corcoran and Terterian: both the symphonies mentioned there are striking works that I listened to a great deal at one point.

My own personal six would probably contain some of the following, though some of these composers might not be deemed obscure enough:

Popov 1
Langgaard 4
Brian 8
Hartmann 6
Gerhard 1
Ustvolskaya 3
Kancheli 6
B. A. Zimmermann Symphony in One Movement
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: schweitzeralan on May 15, 2009, 03:35:16 AM
I really love Turina's Sinfonía sevillana and William Grant Still's `Afro-American' Symphony.  I haven't heard the others, so many new composers I've discovered thanks to this thread.  Thanks everyone!  ;)

Are you familiar with William Grant Still's piano works? Like Seven Traceries?  Or the 5 Preludes? The music is quite different from the Afro American, "Blues" style which permeate his symphonic works.  The piano works tend to be modal, much chord parallel, exotic minor and overall impressionistic. It's like a sort of dual personality.  I didn't care personally for a couple of his symphonies.  I wonder if there are some orchestral pieces that are similar to, let's say, "Marionette."
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Teresa on May 15, 2009, 08:51:48 PM
Are you familiar with William Grant Still's piano works? Like Seven Traceries?  Or the 5 Preludes? The music is quite different from the Afro American, "Blues" style which permeate his symphonic works.  The piano works tend to be modal, much chord parallel, exotic minor and overall impressionistic. It's like a sort of dual personality.  I didn't care personally for a couple of his symphonies.  I wonder if there are some orchestral pieces that are similar to, let's say, "Marionette."
No I am sorry to say, I'm not into solo piano works but more into orchestral works though I do like a lot of piano with orchestra works. 
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Sorin Eushayson on May 15, 2009, 09:36:00 PM
Here I am again!  ;D

Shout out to Symphony No. 3 by one Franz Berwald.  That thing'll knock your socks off!!!  :o

Check out the F-Sharp Minor symphony of American composer George Frideric Bristow while you're at it, too. ;)  The only one of Bristow's works recorded, it seems...  :'(
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on May 16, 2009, 02:24:07 AM
New list:

Alf Hurum: Symphony (thanks to Greg)

Samuel Jones: Symphony 3 'Palo Duro Canyon' (Naxos)

Balanchivadze: Symphony No 1 (great work - not on CD unfortunately)

Rudolph Simonsen: Symphony No 1 'Zion' (CPO)

Vladimir Scherbachov: Symphony No 5 (Northern Flowers)

Armstrong Gibbs: Symphony No 3 'Westmorland' (Marco Polo)

Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dundonnell on May 16, 2009, 01:19:16 PM
New list:

Alf Hurum: Symphony (thanks to Greg)

Samuel Jones: Symphony 3 'Palo Duro Canyon' (Naxos)

Balanchivadze: Symphony No 1 (great work - not on CD unfortunately)

Rudolph Simonsen: Symphony No 1 'Zion' (CPO)

Vladimir Scherbachov: Symphony No 5 (Northern Flowers)

Armstrong Gibbs: Symphony No 3 'Westmorland' (Marco Polo)



I have the Scherbachov but have not yet had time to listen to it. The Hurum is great, isn't it :) One of the best Norwegian symphonies I have heard!
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on May 16, 2009, 02:51:02 PM
I have the Scherbachov but have not yet had time to listen to it. The Hurum is great, isn't it :) One of the best Norwegian symphonies I have heard!

You will like the Scherbachov (although it goes a bit Socialist Realist in the last movement) - yes, the Hurum is great.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on May 17, 2009, 11:27:14 PM
I should have included Robin Orr's Symphony in one movement - in some ways my favourite type of symphony - craggy, tonal, epic and darkly moving (and this in 17 minutes). It reminds me a bit of Havergal Brian (ie Symphony No eight) and also Carlos Chavez (Symphony No 4).  It must have been really at odds with the musical thinking of the period 1960-3 when it was composed. It features on a very interesting CD:

Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: snyprrr on May 20, 2009, 07:05:24 PM
Wait a minute...considering your latest list (the most humorously obscure list I've ever seen...good work!), I would almost have to consider Orr almost a household name, at least on the thread! ;D

You did recommend him to me a while back. Have you been ordering too many cds? $:)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: jimmosk on May 22, 2009, 05:57:34 AM
...considering your latest list (the most humorously obscure list I've ever seen...good work!),

How could that be the most obscure list you've ever seen, when all but one of them are on in-print CDs, including big labels like Marco Polo and CPO?  Surely there are lots of symphonies that were only ever released on LP [edit: I originally mistyped 'CD' here], or never recorded at all... anyone know of a page that is to symphonies what Tobias Bröker's list is to violin concertos?
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: schweitzeralan on May 22, 2009, 07:08:35 AM
I have the Scherbachov but have not yet had time to listen to it. The Hurum is great, isn't it :) One of the best Norwegian symphonies I have heard!

Of those composers mentioned in your list I am familiar only with C. Armstrong Gibbs.  His Westmorland symphonies are fine.  I love his piano works entitled "Lakeland Pictures."  Very English in the Baxian, Moeran, Howells tradition.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on May 22, 2009, 08:06:03 AM
Wait a minute...considering your latest list (the most humorously obscure list I've ever seen...good work!), I would almost have to consider Orr almost a household name, at least on the thread! ;D

You did recommend him to me a while back. Have you been ordering too many cds? $:)

You can never buy "too many CDs" (although my wife would dispute this..."must you buy ANOTHER CD?"...she doesn't understand  :'(

"humorously obscure list"!!!
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dundonnell on May 28, 2009, 04:42:54 AM
You will like the Scherbachov (although it goes a bit Socialist Realist in the last movement) - yes, the Hurum is great.

I like the first three movements of the Scherbachov very much...but yes, the last movement does rather let the piece down! I found the accompanying Suite "The Tobacco Captain" terribly twee and wearisome though.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: owlice on May 28, 2009, 06:02:27 AM
I hate this thread.

Amazon, on the other hand.....
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on May 29, 2009, 12:09:15 AM
I like the first three movements of the Scherbachov very much...but yes, the last movement does rather let the piece down! I found the accompanying Suite "The Tobacco Captain" terribly twee and wearisome though.

Yes, I will not be playing the Tobacco Captain again!

Two great new discoveries thanks to Greg:

Stale Kleiberg: Symphony No 1: The Bell Reef (1991) which commemorates the sinking of a ship, in 1537 (we history teachers like dates) carrying five bells destined for a Stavanger Cathedral - the bells could then, according to legend, sometimes be heard chiming beneath the waves - wonderfully atmospheric and deeply moving score, especially the last movement which features the chiming bells between the waves.

Yngve Skold: Symphony No 2 (1937)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: owlice on May 29, 2009, 02:42:48 AM
:: sighs ::

:: checks bank balance ::

:: Googles for a source for two great new discoveries ::
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dundonnell on May 29, 2009, 03:05:59 AM
Yes, I will not be playing the Tobacco Captain again!

Two great new discoveries thanks to Greg:

Stale Kleiberg: Symphony No 1: The Bell Reef (1991) which commemorates the sinking of a ship, in 1537 (we history teachers like dates) carrying five bells destined for a Stavanger Cathedral - the bells could then, according to legend, sometimes be heard chiming beneath the waves - wonderfully atmospheric and deeply moving score, especially the last movement which features the chiming bells between the waves.

Yngve Skold: Symphony No 2 (1937)

I pushed the Kleiberg on here some months ago, Jeffrey-

"Stale Kleiberg(born 1958) is a Norwegian composer of whom I had never heard until a few days ago. Thank you, J.

This magical cd should be a must buy if you can find it!!

Two symphonies-No.1 "The Bell Reef" and No.2 "Kammersymfoni"-and a 'Lamento-Cissi Klein in memoriam'(a short moving memorial to a 13 year old Jewish girl deported from Trondheim to die in Auschwitz).

Kleiberg's music is a revelation! The best word I can use to describe it is pellucid. There is a gorgeous crystalline clarity which is a wonderful mixture of Debussy and Bax(particularly in "Bell Reef"  Symphony) but refracted through the prism of a gentle post-modern expressionism. As the review below says, there are even a few passages which recall Moeran!

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2004/Jan04/Kleiberg.htm

Strongly recommended!"

I have the Skold on my shelves but can remember nothing about it! Another cd to replay ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on May 29, 2009, 08:07:35 AM
I pushed the Kleiberg on here some months ago, Jeffrey-

"Stale Kleiberg(born 1958) is a Norwegian composer of whom I had never heard until a few days ago. Thank you, J.

This magical cd should be a must buy if you can find it!!

Two symphonies-No.1 "The Bell Reef" and No.2 "Kammersymfoni"-and a 'Lamento-Cissi Klein in memoriam'(a short moving memorial to a 13 year old Jewish girl deported from Trondheim to die in Auschwitz).

Kleiberg's music is a revelation! The best word I can use to describe it is pellucid. There is a gorgeous crystalline clarity which is a wonderful mixture of Debussy and Bax(particularly in "Bell Reef"  Symphony) but refracted through the prism of a gentle post-modern expressionism. As the review below says, there are even a few passages which recall Moeran!

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2004/Jan04/Kleiberg.htm

Strongly recommended!"

I have the Skold on my shelves but can remember nothing about it! Another cd to replay ;D

Excellent description Colin! Yes, I think that I can remember that it was you (what a surprise!) who first alerted me to the Kleiberg.  At the time I seem to recall that it was only available at c £25 on the Internet (which I can't afford even on my huge teacher's salary  ::)). However it now seems to have come down (c£12) and Greg ('J') has very kindly sent me a copy.

The Skold Symphony No 2 is a rather endearing work which reminds me of Madetoja and Petterson-Berger. Worth another listen I think.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Christo on June 01, 2009, 10:54:38 AM
Ok, ok - I ordered for the Ståle Kleiberg cd and hope you'll learn to spell his name  ;) and I'll be able to enjoy this music (have been ordering other recommendations, as e.g. Rudolph Simonsens' "Zion" symphony that Robert Hurwitz finds, quote: "ugly, contrapuntal, uninterestingly scored stuff, severely lacking focus and continuity" unquote.  0:)

In the meantime, some more personal favourite symphonies by lesser-known composers sprung to mind. For example:

Elisabeth Maconchy (1907-1994), Symphony for Double String Orchestra (1953)
Villem Kapp (1913-1964), Symphony No. 2 (1955)
Colin McPhee (1900-1964), Symphony No. 2 (1957)
Arnold Cooke (1906-2005), Symphony No. 3 (1967)
Claudio Santoro (1918-1989), Symphony No. 9 (1982)
Victor Legley (1915-1994), Symphony No. 8 (1994) - courtesy Peter `pjme'  :)


Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dundonnell on June 01, 2009, 02:51:36 PM
Ok, ok - I ordered for the Ståle Kleiberg cd and hope you'll learn to spell his name  ;) and I'll be able to enjoy this music (have been ordering other recommendations, as e.g. Rudolph Simonsens' "Zion" symphony that Robert Hurwitz finds, quote: "ugly, contrapuntal, uninterestingly scored stuff, severely lacking focus and continuity" unquote.  0:)

In the meantime, some more personal favourite symphonies by lesser-known composers sprung to mind. For example:

Elisabeth Maconchy (1907-1994), Symphony for Double String Orchestra (1953)
Villem Kapp (1913-1964), Symphony No. 2 (1955)
Colin McPhee (1900-1964), Symphony No. 2 (1957)
Arnold Cooke (1906-2005), Symphony No. 3 (1967)
Claudio Santoro (1918-1989), Symphony No. 9 (1982)
Victor Legley (1915-1994), Symphony No. 8 (1994) - courtesy Peter `pjme'  :)




I would spell Kleiberg's first name properly if I knew how to use my computer keyboard to register the little 'o' above the 'a', Johan :)

Meantime, perhaps you would care to note that Mr. Hurwitz's first name is 'David' not 'Robert' ;D (He is quite wrong about Simonsen anyway!)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on June 02, 2009, 10:42:05 PM
Ok, ok - I ordered for the Ståle Kleiberg cd and hope you'll learn to spell his name  ;) and I'll be able to enjoy this music (have been ordering other recommendations, as e.g. Rudolph Simonsens' "Zion" symphony that Robert Hurwitz finds, quote: "ugly, contrapuntal, uninterestingly scored stuff, severely lacking focus and continuity" unquote.  0:)

In the meantime, some more personal favourite symphonies by lesser-known composers sprung to mind. For example:

Elisabeth Maconchy (1907-1994), Symphony for Double String Orchestra (1953)
Villem Kapp (1913-1964), Symphony No. 2 (1955)
Colin McPhee (1900-1964), Symphony No. 2 (1957)
Arnold Cooke (1906-2005), Symphony No. 3 (1967)
Claudio Santoro (1918-1989), Symphony No. 9 (1982)
Victor Legley (1915-1994), Symphony No. 8 (1994) - courtesy Peter `pjme'  :)


Johan,

What is Claudio Santoro's music like and also Victor Legley? I'm sure you'll enjoy the Simonsen 'Zion' and 'Hellas' symphonies and Kleiberg's Bell Reef.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Christo on June 02, 2009, 11:04:47 PM
Johan,

What is Claudio Santoro's music like and also Victor Legley? I'm sure you'll enjoy the Simonsen 'Zion' and 'Hellas' symphonies and Kleiberg's Bell Reef.

Santoro is not unlike Guarnieri and like him, his earlier symphonies (I only know nos. 4 and 5) are more folk-song inspired and his later more abstract, neoclassicist with some modernist features. But, like Guarnieri's Fifth and Sixth, and also the later Ginastera, who undertook something similar but didn't write symphonies, the result is very convincing.

As for Victor Legley, you perhaps better inform with Peter (pmje), as he sent me this very "French" symphony by a Flemish composer (nothwithstanding his French name) - that I played during my stay in the French and Belgian Ardennes, a few weeks ago, among some other local composers. My first reason to mention it is simply bluff; but I liked it genuinely enough to be convinced of the composer's fine craftmanshipl.

Yes I like Rudolph Simonsen so far, more so at least than David Hurwitz.  ;) But unlike you, I seem to prefer the Second, Hellas. Which, afer all, won him a bronze medal at the 1928 Amsterdam Olympics.  ;) Will play it again after the Maconchy cd is finished ...  0:)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on June 03, 2009, 02:05:37 AM
Santoro is not unlike Guarnieri and like him, his earlier symphonies (I only know nos. 4 and 5) are more folk-song inspired and his later more abstract, neoclassicist with some modernist features. But, like Guarnieri's Fifth and Sixth, and also the later Ginastera, who undertook something similar but didn't write symphonies, the result is very convincing.

As for Victor Legley, you perhaps better inform with Peter (pmje), as he sent me this very "French" symphony by a Flemish composer (nothwithstanding his French name) - that I played during my stay in the French and Belgian Ardennes, a few weeks ago, among some other local composers. My first reason to mention it is simply bluff; but I liked it genuinely enough to be convinced of the composer's fine craftmanshipl.

Yes I like Rudolph Simonsen so far, more so at least than David Hurwitz.  ;) But unlike you, I seem to prefer the Second, Hellas. Which, afer all, won him a bronze medal at the 1928 Amsterdam Olympics.  ;) Will play it again after the Maconchy cd is finished ...  0:)

Thanks Johan,

No, I too prefer Simonsen's 'Hellas Symphony' - especially the beautiful slow movement, but I am growing to appreciate the Nielsen's 'Helios' quality of parts of the 'Zion' Symphony too.  Guarnieri Symphony 2 and 3 are favourites of mine.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on June 05, 2009, 02:25:14 AM
Ok, ok - I ordered for the Ståle Kleiberg cd and hope you'll learn to spell his name  ;) and I'll be able to enjoy this music (have been ordering other recommendations, as e.g. Rudolph Simonsens' "Zion" symphony that Robert Hurwitz finds, quote: "ugly, contrapuntal, uninterestingly scored stuff, severely lacking focus and continuity" unquote.  0:)

In the meantime, some more personal favourite symphonies by lesser-known composers sprung to mind. For example:

Elisabeth Maconchy (1907-1994), Symphony for Double String Orchestra (1953)
Villem Kapp (1913-1964), Symphony No. 2 (1955)
Colin McPhee (1900-1964), Symphony No. 2 (1957)
Arnold Cooke (1906-2005), Symphony No. 3 (1967)
Claudio Santoro (1918-1989), Symphony No. 9 (1982)
Victor Legley (1915-1994), Symphony No. 8 (1994) - courtesy Peter `pjme'  :)

I have listed to Santoro's 4th Symphony, which I thoroughly enjoyed. It reminded me of Paul Creston (Symphony No 2), Guarnieri and even a bit of our old friend Braga Santos - a nice discovery. The inspiriting choral last movement reminded me of Vaughan Williams in places.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: The new erato on June 05, 2009, 02:47:18 AM
Thanks Johan,

No, I too prefer Simonsen's 'Hellas Symphony' - especially the beautiful slow movement, but I am growing to appreciate the Nielsen's 'Helios' quality of parts of the 'Zion' Symphony too. 
I was waiting for a cpo offer to buy this, and finally ordered it on europadisc. It will be nice to finally hear for oneself, pace Hurwitz.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on June 05, 2009, 06:28:17 AM
I was waiting for a cpo offer to buy this, and finally ordered it on europadisc. It will be nice to finally hear for oneself, pace Hurwitz.

Let us know what you think (slow movement of 'Hellas' is beautiful IMHO)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: schweitzeralan on June 05, 2009, 04:18:45 PM
OK, I have started this for purely selfish reasons; to see if I can discover another great symphony by a 'sadly-neglected' composer. Here are my six. I have tried to include works by composers of different nationalities - but this is not a 'rule' for the thread:

Cyril Rootham: Symphony No 1 (British) Lyrita CD

Kaljo Raid: Symphony No 1 (Estonian) Chandos CD

Klaus Egge: Symphony No 1 (Norwegian) Aurora CD

Ross Edwards: Symphony No 1 'Da pacem Domine' (Australian) ABC CD







Rudolph Simonsen: Symphony No 2 'Hellas' (Danish) CPO CD

Douglas Lilburn: Symphony No 1 (New Zealander) Naxos/Kiwi Pacific/Continuum CD

I like the Lyatoshinsky 1st. Perhaps he's not all that obscure.  Very Glieresque, dramatic and relatively lyrical, not like his later somewhat expressionistic symphonic works.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Lilas Pastia on June 05, 2009, 04:48:21 PM
Tournemire and Sauguet are not exactly unknown, but they're certainly unsung.  I'd choose Tournemire 8 and Sauguet 1. I'd add Thierry Escaich 1, Jaz Coleman's 1st, Kinsella 3 ("Joie de vivre"), Ib Norholm 2, Heininen 3 and Eliasson 1. Oh, and Daniel Jones 8 (or 6, or 9).

Was Hoddinott mentioned? In any case he's not exactly unknown.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on June 05, 2009, 11:31:36 PM
Tournemire and Sauguet are not exactly unknown, but they're certainly unsung.  I'd choose Tournemire 8 and Sauguet 1. I'd add Thierry Escaich 1, Jaz Coleman's 1st, Kinsella 3 ("Joie de vivre"), Ib Norholm 2, Heininen 3 and Eliasson 1. Oh, and Daniel Jones 8 (or 6, or 9).

Was Hoddinott mentioned? In any case he's not exactly unknown.

A vote from me too for Sauguet's 'Expiatoire' (Symphony No 1) a great work written in response to the sufferings of the French in WW 2 and from Sauguet's 'guilt' at being unable to alleviate such sufferings. The closing sections are very moving. Also for Jaz Coleman's Symphony (thanks to Andre  :)), Kinsella's 3rd (bit like Tubin/Lilburn) and the Daniel Jones symphonies mentioned. Also I'd add Grace Williams Symphony No 2 (influenced by her teacher - Vaughan Williams's Symphony No 4). Tournemire No 8 yes,yes (I like all the ones I know).
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: The new erato on June 05, 2009, 11:34:47 PM
Holy crap - this thread is dangerous. If you all provided  "buy here" links to your recommendations I would be living in my dogs house now.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on June 05, 2009, 11:37:05 PM
Holy crap - this thread is dangerous. If you all prvioded  "buy here" links to your recommendations I would be living in my dogs house now.

I live their already  ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: The new erato on June 06, 2009, 12:04:09 AM
Am I the only one having this:  ;D

(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2003/Aug03/sybergkontra.jpg)

Well reviewed here: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2003/Aug03/syberg_symphony.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2003/Aug03/syberg_symphony.htm) and in Fanfare in its time, but I haven't heard it for years so don't really have an opinion.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on June 06, 2009, 12:53:26 AM
Quote from: erato link=topic=11783.msg316719# msg316719 date=1244279049
Am I the only one having this:  ;D

(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2003/Aug03/sybergkontra.jpg)

Well reviewed here: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2003/Aug03/syberg_symphony.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2003/Aug03/syberg_symphony.htm) and in Fanfare in its time, but I haven't heard it for years so don't really have an opinion.

Thanks for posting this - never heard of him but the painting with cat on lap is a promising sign  8). Unfortunately this CD only seems to be available at full price (from Crotchett in the UK) - so I will hold off for now. Certainly the Musicweb review suggests that Syberg is a composer worth exploring. There is a CD (at budget price) of music for oboe and string orchestra etc.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dundonnell on June 06, 2009, 02:07:39 AM
Thanks for posting this - never heard of him but the painting with cat on lap is a promising sign  8). Unfortunately this CD only seems to be available at full price (from Crotchett in the UK) - so I will hold off for now. Certainly the Musicweb review suggests that Syberg is a composer worth exploring. There is a CD (at budget price) of music for oboe and string orchestra etc.

Yes..but guess who just went ahead and ordered it anyway ::)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: The new erato on June 06, 2009, 05:17:51 AM
Yes..but guess who just went ahead and ordered it anyway ::)
Well, good to see I could return some punches!
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Lilas Pastia on June 06, 2009, 05:28:44 AM
Yes..but guess who just went ahead and ordered it anyway ::)

Thanks for being our guinea pig :D. A full appraisal will be in order !
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dundonnell on June 06, 2009, 09:02:43 AM
Thanks for being our guinea pig :D. A full appraisal will be in order !

Watch this space ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on June 07, 2009, 12:19:58 AM
Yes..but guess who just went ahead and ordered it anyway ::)

My nerve went - I have ordered it too  ::). I shall take a very dim view if Colin has the last copy  >:(

erato - I hope that you are ashamed of yourself for feeding our OCCDCD (Obsessive Compulsive CD Collecting Disorder).
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: The new erato on June 07, 2009, 12:36:46 AM
I'm on commission.  ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: schweitzeralan on June 07, 2009, 03:17:07 AM
I pushed the Kleiberg on here some months ago, Jeffrey-

"Stale Kleiberg(born 1958) is a Norwegian composer of whom I had never heard until a few days ago. Thank you, J.

This magical cd should be a must buy if you can find it!!

Two symphonies-No.1 "The Bell Reef" and No.2 "Kammersymfoni"-and a 'Lamento-Cissi Klein in memoriam'(a short moving memorial to a 13 year old Jewish girl deported from Trondheim to die in Auschwitz).

Kleiberg's music is a revelation! The best word I can use to describe it is pellucid. There is a gorgeous crystalline clarity which is a wonderful mixture of Debussy and Bax(particularly in "Bell Reef"  Symphony) but refracted through the prism of a gentle post-modern expressionism. As the review below says, there are even a few passages which recall Moeran!

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2004/Jan04/Kleiberg.htm

Strongly recommended!"

I have the Skold on my shelves but can remember nothing about it! Another cd to replay ;D

Just ordered it; always looking for potetial new recordings.  I like the Bax/Debussy/Moeran mentions.  Will give it a try.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: schweitzeralan on June 07, 2009, 03:23:01 AM
I have listed to Santoro's 4th Symphony, which I thoroughly enjoyed. It reminded me of Paul Creston (Symphony No 2), Guarnieri and even a bit of our old friend Braga Santos - a nice discovery. The inspiriting choral last movement reminded me of Vaughan Williams in places.
Any composers that you may know whose works are similar to those of Colin McPee? I have several works by this Canadian composer who and taught, I believe, in California.  His work tends to be quite colorful, modal, and impressionistic in places.  Expressioism,serialism, bitonality have slipped in my preferences to date. McPhee is a dedicated coservative who encapsulated and developed Balinese folk music.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on June 07, 2009, 04:27:07 AM
I'm on commission.  ;D

 :)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on June 07, 2009, 04:37:14 AM
Any composers that you may know whose works are similar to those of Colin McPee? I have several works by this Canadian composer who and taught, I believe, in California.  His work tends to be quite colorful, modal, and impressionistic in places.  Expressioism,serialism, bitonality have slipped in my preferences to date. McPhee is a dedicated coservative who encapsulated and developed Balinese folk music.

Ok, I have my only McPhee CD playing at the moment - Tabuh-Tabuhan (great piece!) with old Howard Hanson conducting. Two composers come to mind -one is Carlos Chavez (and I was then very interested to discover that Chavez conducted the first performance of Tabuh-Tabuhan!) Do you know Sinfonia India by Chavez? You might like that.  The other composer who immediately came to mind was John Foulds - you might like his 'Three Mantras'.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: schweitzeralan on June 07, 2009, 08:23:06 AM
Ok, I have my only McPhee CD playing at the moment - Tabuh-Tabuhan (great piece!) with old Howard Hanson conducting. Two composers come to mind -one is Carlos Chavez (and I was then very interested to discover that Chavez conducted the first performance of Tabuh-Tabuhan!) Do you know Sinfonia India by Chavez? You might like that.  The other composer who immediately came to mind was John Foulds - you might like his 'Three Mantras'.

Thanks for the response.  I know of Chavez but am unfamiliar with his works.  I also discovered that I have an original MacPhee work by the Louisville Orchestra.  A favorite.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Christo on June 07, 2009, 11:08:55 PM
Am I the only one having this:  ;D

(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2003/Aug03/sybergkontra.jpg)

Well reviewed here: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2003/Aug03/syberg_symphony.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2003/Aug03/syberg_symphony.htm) and in Fanfare in its time, but I haven't heard it for years so don't really have an opinion.

I have it, together with the other Syberg cd. Remember that I liked it in similar terms as described on the musicweb site, but couldn't find anyone in this forum with a similar experience. I do remember Vandermolen didn't know it - and that's what he's repeating here (so he actually forgot that we tried to discuss it - genuine proof of his `not knowing Syberg'.  8)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on June 08, 2009, 01:29:33 AM
I have it, together with the other Syberg cd. Remember that I liked it in similar terms as described on the musicweb site, but couldn't find anyone in this forum with a similar experience. I do remember Vandermolen didn't know it - and that's what he's repeating here (so he actually forgot that we tried to discuss it - genuine proof of his `not knowing Syberg'.  8)

I have no memory of such a conversation - I expect that you hallucinated the whole episode  ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: schweitzeralan on June 08, 2009, 06:22:16 AM
OK, I have started this for purely selfish reasons; to see if I can discover another great symphony by a 'sadly-neglected' composer. Here are my six. I have tried to include works by composers of different nationalities - but this is not a 'rule' for the thread:

Cyril Rootham: Symphony No 1 (British) Lyrita CD

Kaljo Raid: Symphony No 1 (Estonian) Chandos CD

Klaus Egge: Symphony No 1 (Norwegian) Aurora CD

Ross Edwards: Symphony No 1 'Da pacem Domine' (Australian) ABC CD

Rudolph Simonsen: Symphony No 2 'Hellas' (Danish) CPO CD

Douglas Lilburn: Symphony No 1 (New Zealander) Naxos/Kiwi Pacific/Continuum CD

An unknown composer now who was probably well acquainted with the French musical culture during his lifetime, Phillipe Gaubert's "Symphonie In F," along with his "Chants de la Mer" contain some marvelous moments.  I personally like the Debussyian influence which are quite prominent in the "Symphonie."  There are also many D'Indy influences.  If there is anyone out there who loves impressionism and likes Debussy, I recommend this work. The few moments for me outweigh the ongoing tedium of many of the accompanying works.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Lilas Pastia on June 08, 2009, 09:17:33 AM
Good rec, schweitzeralan, I'll try to locate that. Another fine 'Sean Symphony' is that of Paul Gilson. A belgian composer, Gilson was born in 1865, a banner year for classical music (Nielsen, Sibelius, Dukas were also born in that year). It's a 4 movement work with descriptive subtitles, each conforming to the standard pattern (Allegretto, allegro etc). I think it has been recorded a few times. Mine is with the Belgian Radio and Television Philharmonic under Rickenbacher. Not a masterpiece, but a very well crafted and peasant work. On this disc it's coupled with another obscure symphony, by August de Boeck. Coincidentally, the latter is also belgian and was born in 1865 too!
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dundonnell on June 08, 2009, 09:31:57 AM
Good rec, schweitzeralan, I'll try to locate that. Another fine 'Sean Symphony' is that of Paul Gilson. A belgian composer, Gilson was born in 1865, a banner year for classical music (Nielsen, Sibelius, Dukas were also born in that year). It's a 4 movement work with descriptive subtitles, each conforming to the standard pattern (Allegretto, allegro etc). I think it has been recorded a few times. Mine is with the Belgian Radio and Television Philharmonic under Rickenbacher. Not a masterpiece, but a very well crafted and peasant work. On this disc it's coupled with another obscure symphony, by August de Boeck. Coincidentally, the latter is also belgian and was born in 1865 too!

'Sean Symphony' ??? If you mean 'Sea Symphony', Andre, then I presume that you are referring to Gilson's composition 'The Sea'. The question is whether or not it is actually a symphony. Gilson himself called it 'Four Symphonic Sketches'.

Sorry if I am being pedantic :)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: The new erato on June 08, 2009, 09:44:02 AM
Sean has made me confused as well, a long time ago.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on June 08, 2009, 12:52:03 PM
An unknown composer now who was probably well acquainted with the French musical culture during his lifetime, Phillipe Gaubert's "Symphonie In F," along with his "Chants de la Mer" contain some marvelous moments.  I personally like the Debussyian influence which are quite prominent in the "Symphonie."  There are also many D'Indy influences.  If there is anyone out there who loves impressionism and likes Debussy, I recommend this work. The few moments for me outweigh the ongoing tedium of many of the accompanying works.

Have ordered 'Chants de la Mer'  ::)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: jimmosk on June 08, 2009, 03:15:56 PM
I have that Syberg disc, and for me the real winner isn't the symphony, but the 1934 Sinfonietta. It manages to link Nielsen and Holmboe (and dates from a year before Holmboe's First), with a bracing but melodically interesting style.  The symphony, from five years later, isn't really any more advanced, but I find it aimless where the sinfonietta is gripping. The third work on the disc, his Adagio for Strings, has a lot of Nielsen but some sentimental Grieglike moments too. I enjoy the disc as a whole, but it's that 1934 work that I return to most often.

Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Lethevich on June 08, 2009, 03:44:09 PM
Have ordered 'Chants de la Mer'  ::)

Great choice, Gaubert is brilliant.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Lilas Pastia on June 08, 2009, 03:52:12 PM
'Sean Symphony' ??? If you mean 'Sea Symphony', Andre, then I presume that you are referring to Gilson's composition 'The Sea'. The question is whether or not it is actually a symphony. Gilson himself called it 'Four Symphonic Sketches'.

Sorry if I am being pedantic :)

What's in a typo  ;D ? In any case, as with other overtly or vaguely programmatic works such as the Pastorale, Fantastique, Italian or Alpine symphonies, we're treading an interesting territory, where impressions mattter as much as intentions. I quote the notes to the Discover disc of Gilson's  "De Zee":
Quote
"The Sea is usually considered a programmatic symphony. The order of the four movements does indeed correspond to the conventional scheme. The cyclic use of the principal theme lends a strong sense of unity to the whole. However, it is obvious that the key in this work must be sought in its poetic and visual imagery. As in Claude Debussy's  immortal masterwork of the same title composed ten years later, the title suggest the composer's expressive intentions, although literal description of exact details is not intended"
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on June 10, 2009, 01:57:55 AM
Message from Crotchet: Syberg 'No longer available'.  I bet that Colin has the last copy  >:(
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Christo on June 10, 2009, 02:13:27 AM
Message from Crotchet: Syberg 'No longer available'.  I bet that Colin has the last copy  >:(

Some time, in the next threehundred years probably, I'll try to make a copy and send it you.  8)  0:)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dundonnell on June 10, 2009, 02:43:32 AM
Message from Crotchet: Syberg 'No longer available'.  I bet that Colin has the last copy  >:(

And, IF my copy does arrive I too can be relied on to copy it for you, Jeffrey ;D (Btw I ordered a used copy through Amazon.com. There are two more but I don't think that the sellers do international orders :()
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on June 10, 2009, 03:28:47 AM
Many thanks Colin and Johan  :)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Dundonnell on June 17, 2009, 12:51:31 PM
I have that Syberg disc, and for me the real winner isn't the symphony, but the 1934 Sinfonietta. It manages to link Nielsen and Holmboe (and dates from a year before Holmboe's First), with a bracing but melodically interesting style.  The symphony, from five years later, isn't really any more advanced, but I find it aimless where the sinfonietta is gripping. The third work on the disc, his Adagio for Strings, has a lot of Nielsen but some sentimental Grieglike moments too. I enjoy the disc as a whole, but it's that 1934 work that I return to most often.



Ok...my take on the Syberg disc :)

I am glad that I managed to get a copy(don't worry, Jeffrey, I am sure something can be arranged ;D). This was a seriously talented composer and it is very sad that he simply stopped composing at the age of 37. Scandinavian modesty can be a curse as well as a blessing! Syberg died at the age of 51 of shock and overstrain during the rescue work at a big fire on his ancestral farm.

There is a lot of Nielsen in the music(but none the worse for that), particularly in the Symphony. I find the Symphony particularly attractive with a lot of beautiful Nielsenesque woodwind work but both this piece and the earlier but oddly slightly more advanced-sounding Sinfonietta also would appeal greatly to lovers of Holmboe. There is too quite a lot of influence from the Hindemith of the 1930s. The fact that both Holmboe himself and Niels Viggo Bentzon expressed their admiration for Syberg's very small corpus of work says a lot.

The music is well-written and clean-limbed in a very Danish sort of way. Nothing is overblown or over the top. A good acquisition ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on June 18, 2009, 01:10:26 PM
Ok...my take on the Syberg disc :)

I am glad that I managed to get a copy(don't worry, Jeffrey, I am sure something can be arranged ;D). This was a seriously talented composer and it is very sad that he simply stopped composing at the age of 37. Scandinavian modesty can be a curse as well as a blessing! Syberg died at the age of 51 of shock and overstrain during the rescue work at a big fire on his ancestral farm.

There is a lot of Nielsen in the music(but none the worse for that), particularly in the Symphony. I find the Symphony particularly attractive with a lot of beautiful Nielsenesque woodwind work but both this piece and the earlier but oddly slightly more advanced-sounding Sinfonietta also would appeal greatly to lovers of Holmboe. There is too quite a lot of influence from the Hindemith of the 1930s. The fact that both Holmboe himself and Niels Viggo Bentzon expressed their admiration for Syberg's very small corpus of work says a lot.

The music is well-written and clean-limbed in a very Danish sort of way. Nothing is overblown or over the top. A good acquisition ;D

Thanks Colin. Now, what's your take on Balanchivadze's First Symphony?  ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: schweitzeralan on July 05, 2009, 02:57:36 AM
OK, I have started this for purely selfish reasons; to see if I can discover another great symphony by a 'sadly-neglected' composer. Here are my six. I have tried to include works by composers of different nationalities - but this is not a 'rule' for the thread:

Cyril Rootham: Symphony No 1 (British) Lyrita CD

Kaljo Raid: Symphony No 1 (Estonian) Chandos CD

Klaus Egge: Symphony No 1 (Norwegian) Aurora CD

Ross Edwards: Symphony No 1 'Da pacem Domine' (Australian) ABC CD

Rudolph Simonsen: Symphony No 2 'Hellas' (Danish) CPO CD

Douglas Lilburn: Symphony No 1 (New Zealander) Naxos/Kiwi Pacific/Continuum CD

The Moeran Symphony in G Minor
Lyatoshinsky's 1st. Symphony
Madetoja's 2nd. Symphony
Gliere's 3rd. Symphony
Klaus Egge's 1st.
Peter Mennin's 6th.
Joseph Suk's "Asrael."
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Sean on July 05, 2009, 07:50:46 AM
A Sean symphony eh?

As for six good little known symphonies I'd have to get my memory banks charged up a bit more, but ones by Piston and Salieri are a real find.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on July 06, 2009, 05:06:40 AM
The Moeran Symphony in G Minor
Lyatoshinsky's 1st. Symphony
Madetoja's 2nd. Symphony
Gliere's 3rd. Symphony
Klaus Egge's 1st.
Peter Mennin's 6th.
Joseph Suk's "Asrael."

We have similar tastes. I could have chosen any of those (and did choose two) apart from Mennin, which I don't know so well (but have on CD somewhere  ::))
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: schweitzeralan on July 06, 2009, 10:34:29 AM
We have similar tastes. I could have chosen any of those (and did choose two) apart from Mennin, which I don't know so well (but have on CD somewhere  ::))

I think the Louisville Orchestra and R. Whitney do a superb performance of the Mennin.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: The new erato on July 06, 2009, 10:37:49 AM
Interesting this support for Egge, which I suspect is woefully underrecorded in relation to the quality of the music. Even worse than Rosenberg.....

In Egges case, thank God for Naxos.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on July 06, 2009, 03:13:10 PM
Interesting this support for Egge, which I suspect is woefully underrecorded in relation to the quality of the music. Even worse than Rosenberg.....

In Egges case, thank God for Naxos.

Yes, true, but Egge's First Symphony and Piano Concerto No 2 on Aurora is the most important Egge CD IMHO. The SQ on Naxos is also very good.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: schweitzeralan on July 06, 2009, 06:05:58 PM
Yes, true, but Egge's First Symphony and Piano Concerto No 2 on Aurora is the most important Egge CD IMHO. The SQ on Naxos is also very good.

The Egge Concerto is a wonderful, tightly wrought, no nonsense composition which is a curious blend of impressionism and neoclassicism.  His later works become somewhat more dissident and "au courant Modernist trends, but they are quite worthy nontheless.  I had the pleasure of meeting Maestro Egge while I was traveling in Norwaymany years ago.  His English was excellent, and he lectured me for a full half hour on the (then) newest trends in Norwegian music.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on July 07, 2009, 01:59:49 AM
The Egge Concerto is a wonderful, tightly wrought, no nonsense composition which is a curious blend of impressionism and neoclassicism.  His later works become somewhat more dissident and "au courant Modernist trends, but they are quite worthy nontheless.  I had the pleasure of meeting Maestro Egge while I was traveling in Norwaymany years ago.  His English was excellent, and he lectured me for a full half hour on the (then) newest trends in Norwegian music.

That's very exciting! How come you met the great Mr Egge?
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: schweitzeralan on July 07, 2009, 04:59:55 AM
That's very exciting! How come you met the great Mr Egge?

Unfortunately I can't recall the details, as it was so long ago.  I think I found out where the music academy was located in Oslo.  I must have met him there.  He was the head, or chairman of the conservatory.  I can only recall that I spoke very briefly, and he discussed the latest trends in what was then "contemporary music" that was conceived in Norway.  He was quite brusque, but understanding as I was a young grad student in languages, not in music.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on July 07, 2009, 06:26:36 AM
Unfortunately I can't recall the details, as it was so long ago.  I think I found out where the music academy was located in Oslo.  I must have met him there.  He was the head, or chairman of the conservatory.  I can only recall that I spoke very briefly, and he discussed the latest trends in what was then "contemporary music" that was conceived in Norway.  He was quite brusque, but understanding as I was Young grad student in languages, not in music.

Thank you for sharing that.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: stevenski on August 06, 2009, 09:54:41 AM
Paderewski Polonia Symphony

Langgaard Symphony "La Melodia"-effortlessly melodious indeed; really a piano concerto

Siegfried Wagner Symphony

Draeseke Symphonia Tragica

Meulemans Fir Symphony. See posting on Flemish late Romantics

Rott Symphony.

However, my main predilection is Romantic period Piano Concerti. Has there been a thread on 6 favourite pcs by lesser known Romantics?

Steve
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on August 07, 2009, 02:03:40 AM
Paderewski Polonia Symphony

Langgaard Symphony "La Melodia"-effortlessly melodious indeed; really a piano concerto

Siegfried Wagner Symphony

Draeseke Symphonia Tragica

Meulemans Fir Symphony. See posting on Flemish late Romantics

Rott Symphony.

However, my main predilection is Romantic period Piano Concerti. Has there been a thread on 6 favourite pcs by lesser known Romantics?

Steve


Very interesting choices. The Rott is a great work and Meuleman's 'Pliny's Fountain' is a lovely work.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: schweitzeralan on August 11, 2009, 08:05:17 AM
Yes, this is why Jeffrey has no money  ::) Your choices could be mine too, although I need to search out the Sallinen. I nearly included the Moeran but considered him not obscure enough  8)

My list No 2 (I am allowed two as I started the thread  ;D)

Boris Parsadanian: Symphony No 1 "To the Memory of the 26 Commissars of Baku"

Rudolph Simonsen: Symphony No 1 'Zion'

Arthur Butterworth : Symphony No 4 (Colin are you watching?  :o)

Moyzes: Symphony No 7

Truscott: Symphony in E major

Braga Santos (for it is he) Symphony No 3

I have tried to choose ones not already listed.

I'm liking the Butterworth 4th more and more.  I also omitted to menton Hilding Rosenberg's 3rd. Symphony.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Tapkaara on August 11, 2009, 08:25:37 AM
Ifukube - Sinfonia Tapkaara
Kalomiris - Symphony no. 1
Moroi - Symphony no. 3
Langgaard - Symphony no. 1
Leifs - Saga Symphony
Akutagawa - Symphony no. 1
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: listener on October 17, 2009, 12:24:22 AM
the Goldmark op.26 "Rustic Wedding" Symphony
and on vinyl, if I can find it again, the symphony by "Ovsianniko-Kulikovsky" -
apocryphal according to Slonimsky, a Bis catalogue once listed the complete works as a project...
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on October 17, 2009, 12:39:20 AM
I'm liking the Butterworth 4th more and more.  I also omitted to menton Hilding Rosenberg's 3rd. Symphony.

Both great works. Have coincidentally been listening to the Butterworth Symphony No 4 a lot. Notwithstanding the Bax, Nielsen and Sibelius references (including a direct quotation from the Tempest) and at one point even a reminder of Franz Waxman's score for 'Rebecca', it is a very enjoyable work in its own right - I like it more and more - a powerful, dark, craggy and yet inspiriting score which really appeals to me. Great stuff.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: The new erato on October 17, 2009, 08:33:44 AM
Paderewski Polonia Symphony

The Polonia is scheduled for rerelease on Hyperions Helios bargain label in January. I will be sure to buy it then.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: schweitzeralan on October 10, 2010, 04:22:02 AM
Thank you! Unlike Colin you clearly recognise an A1 thread when you see it  :)

Very interesting choice, although I know few of them - Kaljo Raid's Symphony was on my list too. A moving and powerful score in the spirit of his teacher - the great Tubin.
I was reviewing previous threads and came across this posting which included a work by Estonian Kaljo Raid.  I did some online research and read some reviews.  Similar composers include, among others: Hanson, Sibelius, Bax, and Walton, among others.  I also gleaned or noticed that Blumenfeld wrote a symphony.  Will check.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: 12tone. on October 10, 2010, 12:03:46 PM
Yehudi Menuhin:  Symphony #43 in D major, Op.723 

The 25 soloists, pipe organ and Mahlerian-sized orchestra gets crazy-loud!
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: The new erato on October 10, 2010, 09:44:26 PM
Yehudi Menuhin:  Symphony #43 in D major, Op.723 

The 25 soloists, pipe organ and Mahlerian-sized orchestra gets crazy-loud!
Please, don't screw up this valuable thread.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Harry on October 11, 2010, 01:14:59 AM
The Polonia is scheduled for rerelease on Hyperions Helios bargain label in January. I will be sure to buy it then.

I bought it in the please buy me section, and its worth every penny of your money.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: kyjo on November 03, 2013, 01:15:20 PM
Hope these are "really lesser-known" enough! ;)

Emil Bohnke (1888-1928): Symphony (Koch CD)
Adolphe Biarent (1871-1916): Symphony in D minor (Musique en Wallonie CD)
Alberto Williams (1872-1952): Symphony no. 7 in D major Eterno Reposo (Arte Nova CD)
Siegmund von Hausegger (1872-1948): Natursymphonie (CPO CD)
Claudio Santoro (1919-1989): Symphony no. 4 (BIS CD)
Evgeni Golubev (1910-1988): Symphony no. 5 in A minor (on YouTube only)

Don't worry, more to come! 0:)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: kyjo on November 05, 2013, 05:12:15 PM
I'll probably end up self-resuscitating this thread! :laugh:

Stjepan Sulek (1914-1986): Symphony no. 8 (on YT only)
Vaclav Dobias (1909-1978): Symphony no. 2 (Supraphon CD)
Rudolph Simonsen (1889-1947): Symphony no. 2 Hellas (CPO CD)
Mikuláš Schneider-Trnavský (1881-1958): Symphony in E minor Remembrance (on YT only)
Jean Martinon (1910-1976) (yes, the conductor): Symphony no. 2 Hymne a la Vie (on YT only)
Gunter Raphael (1903-1960): Choral Symphony Von der Grossen Weisheit (CPO CD)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: kyjo on November 07, 2013, 11:05:16 AM
Oh Jeffrey, where art thou, O savior of threads about super-obscure composers? ;)

Eivind Groven (1901-1977): Symphony no. 1 To the Mountains (BIS CD)
Adolfs Skulte (1909-2000): Symphony no. 5 (on YT only)
AJ Potter (1918-1980): Sinfonia da Requiem (Marco Polo CD)
Ernst Pepping (1901-1981): Symphony no. 2 (CPO CD)
Manolis Kalomiris (1883-1962): Symphony no. 1 Levendia (Of Manliness) (Koch CD)
Julius Juzeliunas (1916-2001): Symphony no. 2 (on YT only)

Ah well, at least I'm enjoying this thread! :laugh:
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Ten thumbs on November 07, 2013, 01:14:21 PM
Here is an 'obscure' symphony I do have on record and which I really do enjoy.

Emilie Mayer(1812-1883); Symphony No.5 in F minor
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: kyjo on November 07, 2013, 01:18:59 PM
Here is an 'obscure' symphony I do have on record and which I really do enjoy.

Emilie Mayer(1812-1883); Symphony No.5 in F minor

Thank you for bringing some life into this thread (my posts don't count as "life" ;))! I've heard the Mayer symphony and I agree that it's a fine work-definitely a cut above other lesser-known works of the period. Have you heard the impressive and rather Beethovenian symphonies of Louise Farrenc, recorded by CPO? They're in a similar category as the Mayer symphony.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Brian on November 07, 2013, 01:25:03 PM
Have you heard the impressive and rather Beethovenian symphonies of Louise Farrenc, recorded by CPO? They're in a similar category as the Mayer symphony.
Farrenc's symphonies are wonderful. Even Hector Berlioz complimented them; I think I'm on the record saying they're like Mendelssohn, but with more machismo.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: kyjo on November 07, 2013, 01:42:31 PM
Farrenc's symphonies are wonderful. Even Hector Berlioz complimented them; I think I'm on the record saying they're like Mendelssohn, but with more machismo.

Yeah, they're definitely more "fiery" and sturm und drang than a lot of other symphonies of the period (some of which can sound like Mendelssohn and water). Another "fiery" mid-romantic symphony I can enthusiastically recommend is Robert Volkmann's First (recorded by CPO), which has echoes of Beethoven, Schumann 4, Brahms 1, and even some foreshadowing of Wagner. His Second is also a lovely work with some wonderful woodwind writing.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on November 07, 2013, 02:42:49 PM
Oh Jeffrey, where art thou, O savior of threads about super-obscure composers? ;)

Eivind Groven (1901-1977): Symphony no. 1 To the Mountains (BIS CD)
Adolfs Skulte (1909-2000): Symphony no. 5 (on YT only)
AJ Potter (1918-1980): Sinfonia da Requiem (Marco Polo CD)
Ernst Pepping (1901-1981): Symphony no. 2 (CPO CD)
Manolis Kalomiris (1883-1962): Symphony no. 1 Levendia (Of Manliness) (Koch CD)
Julius Juzeliunas (1916-2001): Symphony no. 2 (on YT only)

Ah well, at least I'm enjoying this thread! :laugh:

Here I am  8)

Interesting choices, not that I know them all. The Archibald Potter Symphony is especially fine, rather in the spirit of Vaughan Williams's : Symphony No 6. I have read through the whole thread again with much interest. Of the symphonies I know the Hurun one stands out as a wonderful score. Nice to see some interest in Yoshimatsu, Chandos's resident composer of some years back. I certainly enjoyed his first two symphonies. The Kleiberg 'Bell Reef' was another great discovery through this forum. I should mention Malcolm Arnold too, although hardly lesser-known.  His odd numbered symphonies + No. 6 are all favourites of mine. Rosenberg and Lyatoshinsky rank very high with me too.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: kyjo on November 07, 2013, 02:55:15 PM
Here I am  8)

Interesting choices, not that I know them all. The Archibald Potter Symphony is especially fine, rather in the spirit of Vaughan Williams's : Symphony No 6. I have read through the whole thread again with much interest. Of the symphonies I know the Hurun one stands out as a wonderful score. Nice to see some interest in Yoshimatsu, Chandos's resident composer of some years back. I certainly enjoyed his first two symphonies. The Kleiberg 'Bell Reef' was another great discovery through this forum. I should mention Malcolm Arnold too, although hardly lesser-known.  His odd numbered symphonies + No. 6 are all favourites of mine. Rosenberg and Lyatoshinsky rank very high with me too.

Finally! ;D I too love Hurum work and wish he had composed more symphonies! Interesting that he wound up in Honolulu after spending most of life near the Arctic Circle! Yoshimatsu I'm not too familiar with, but his music seems attractive, if not particularly deep. Kleiberg is a really fine composer and his Bell Reef Symphony is a very atmospheric work. Let me know if you decide to check out any of the symphonies I listed!
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on November 08, 2013, 03:07:25 AM
Finally! ;D I too love Hurum work and wish he had composed more symphonies! Interesting that he wound up in Honolulu after spending most of life near the Arctic Circle! Yoshimatsu I'm not too familiar with, but his music seems attractive, if not particularly deep. Kleiberg is a really fine composer and his Bell Reef Symphony is a very atmospheric work. Let me know if you decide to check out any of the symphonies I listed!

Of course I will. I think that the Potter work is Sinfonia de Profundis. I think that the Martinon sounds interesting and, talking of conductor/composers enjoy the works by Markevitch, especially Icarus. However I have to say that the Paul Kletzki Symphony No 3 was rather disappointing. I found it to be unmemorable and rather turgid but I quite enjoyed the flute concerto on the same CD. But I will try again with the Symphony.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: kyjo on November 08, 2013, 06:35:04 AM
Of course I will. I think that the Potter work is Sinfonia de Profundis. I think that the Martinon sounds interesting and, talking of conductor/composers enjoy the works by Markevitch, especially Icarus. However I have to say that the Paul Kletzki Symphony No 3 was rather disappointing. I found it to be unmemorable and rather turgid but I quite enjoyed the flute concerto on the same CD. But I will try again with the Symphony.

Da Profundis, Da Requiem.....they're all the same! ::) :D

Yes, Markevitch is certainly an impressive composer. His oratorio Paradise Lost and orchestral work The Flight of Icarus are stunning. In fact, I think I prefer his best works to the majority of Stravinsky (a composer whose style Markevitch takes inspiration from). His music often has a greater sense of color than neoclassical Stravinsky and is very exciting.

Sorry to hear about the Kletzki symphony, but I'm glad you enjoyed the Flute Concerto! Yes, the symphony is a very grim, dour work that will not always impress at first hearing. Try it again when you get a chance! :)

The Martinon symphony is great-a grand work with some ear-catching use of chimes. His Symphony no. 4, also on YouTube, is also an inspired work.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on November 08, 2013, 08:12:50 AM
Da Profundis, Da Requiem.....they're all the same! ::) :D

Yes, Markevitch is certainly an impressive composer. His oratorio Paradise Lost and orchestral work The Flight of Icarus are stunning. In fact, I think I prefer his best works to the majority of Stravinsky (a composer whose style Markevitch takes inspiration from). His music often has a greater sense of color than neoclassical Stravinsky and is very exciting.

Sorry to hear about the Kletzki symphony, but I'm glad you enjoyed the Flute Concerto! Yes, the symphony is a very grim, dour work that will not always impress at first hearing. Try it again when you get a chance! :)

The Martinon symphony is great-a grand work with some ear-catching use of chimes. His Symphony no. 4, also on YouTube, is also an inspired work.

Thanks Kyle. I will certainly tune in for the Martinon.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: SymphonicAddict on February 28, 2017, 03:46:28 PM
Aarre Merikanto: #2
Luis de Freitas Branco: #3
York Bowen: #2
Jan van Gilse: #3
Ludolf Nielsen: #3
Bernard Zweers: #3

Bonus tracks
George W. Chadwick: #3
August de Boeck: Symphony in G major
Alexander Gretchaninov: #5
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Cato on February 28, 2017, 03:57:04 PM
Thanks Kyle. I will certainly tune in for the Martinon.

OH the good old days, when a major company (RCA) supported new music!

https://www.youtube.com/v/sLVujpdYB_I
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Parsifal on February 28, 2017, 04:52:14 PM
Henk Badings. So obscure even cpo canceled their cycle. I'd say Kurt Atterberg, but in these parts he's not considered obscure, I think.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 05, 2017, 07:54:45 AM
Aarre Merikanto: #2
Luis de Freitas Branco: #3
York Bowen: #2
Jan van Gilse: #3
Ludolf Nielsen: #3
Bernard Zweers: #3

Bonus tracks
George W. Chadwick: #3
August de Boeck: Symphony in G major
Alexander Gretchaninov: #5

The first two I like although the Freitas Branco No.4 is my favourite of his cycle. Never really got on with Bowen. I like the Gretchaninov No.4. Didn't realise there was a No.5  ::)
Listening to the Madetoja symphonies at the moment. Very sad that the almost complete manuscript of No.4 was apparently stolen at a railway station.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: SymphonicAddict on March 05, 2017, 08:21:13 PM
The first two I like although the Freitas Branco No.4 is my favourite of his cycle. Never really got on with Bowen. I like the Gretchaninov No.4. Didn't realise there was a No.5  ::)
Listening to the Madetoja symphonies at the moment. Very sad that the almost complete manuscript of No.4 was apparently stolen at a railway station.

Yes. Gretchaninov wrote 5 symphonies: 2nd, 4th and 5th are the most appealing IMHO. I haven't listened to those symphonies by Madetoja. I hope heard them very soon  ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Christo on March 06, 2017, 06:13:52 AM
Six lesser-knowns that I came to know - or, in the case of Ben-Haim, heard again after 35 years - more recently:

Paul Graener, Symphony in D Minor 'Schmied Schmerz' Op. 39 (1912)
Bernhard van Dieren, Symphony No. 1 'Chinese' or 'Choral' Symphony (1914)
Eivind Groven, Symphony No. 1 'Towards the Mountains' (1938/51)
George Enescu, Symphony No. 5 in D Major (for tenor, female chorus and orch.) (1941)
Paul Ben-Haim, Symphony No. 2 Op. 36 (1945)
Willem van Otterloo, Symphony No. 2 (1945-46)



Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on March 08, 2017, 01:41:30 PM
Six lesser-knowns that I came to know - or, in the case of Ben-Haim, heard again after 35 years - more recently:

Paul Graener, Symphony in D Minor 'Schmied Schmerz' Op. 39 (1912)
Bernhard van Dieren, Symphony No. 1 'Chinese' or 'Choral' Symphony (1914)
Eivind Groven, Symphony No. 1 'Towards the Mountains' (1938/51)
George Enescu, Symphony No. 5 in D Major (for tenor, female chorus and orch.) (1941)
Paul Ben-Haim, Symphony No. 2 Op. 36 (1945)
Willem van Otterloo, Symphony No. 2 (1945-46)
I really like both of the Ben-Haim symphonies.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Artran on March 15, 2017, 04:58:42 AM
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Christo on May 17, 2019, 08:19:43 AM
Ross Edwards: Symphony No 1 'Da pacem Domine' (Australian) ABC CD
Never forgot the recommendation, and am now finally listening to my own copy - actually two copies, as I bought both performances in last week's ABC sales at JPC (Germany).
One is with the Sydney SO under David Porcelijn, the other the Adelaide SO under Richard Mills:
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT2rafbUoKI3vy94lrZK0AUOF7hYJZ18m5-i4jCq2MG-goFreHt)(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-35bvwz4b63/images/stencil/2000x2000/products/5870/16914/ross_edwards__38871.1507010589.jpg?c=2)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 24, 2019, 12:56:28 PM
It's been more than 2 years I didn't post anything here. At the moment I have these others:

Mamoru Samuragochi/Takashi Niigaki - Symphony No. 1 Hiroshima. This was actually written by the latter and was attributed to the former in one of the more resonated hoaxes of recent times. It's a mighty and impressive score, very in the vein of Mahler, lasting around 80 minutes. Niigaki also composed another interesting symphony, the Symphony Litany.

Kalervo Tuukkanen - Symphony No. 3 The Sea

Finn Mortensen - Symphony

Philip Sawyers - Symphony No. 2

Francisco Mignone - Sinfonia Tropical

Thomas Schmidt-Kowalski - Symphony No. 3
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 24, 2019, 12:59:22 PM
  • Avet Terterian: Symphony No. 3
  • Lepo Sumera: Symphony No. 2
  • Kamran Ince: Symphony No. 2
  • Brenton Broadstock: Symphony No. 4, Born from Good Angel's Tears
  • Thieri Pécou: Symphonie du Jaguar
  • Alireza Mashayekhi: Symphony No. 9, My World

You mentioned my favorites by Terterian and Sumera. The Terterian with its arresting timpani passages, at first I thought it was a timpani concerto. The Sumera has a transcendent feel to it which appeals to me largely. I don't know the others you posted, but certainly they seem interesting.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: relm1 on May 24, 2019, 03:50:10 PM
Halvor Haug: Symphony No. 1
Halvor Haug: Symphony No. 2
Kevin Puts: Symphony No. 1
Kevin Puts: Symphony No. 2
Lepo Sumera: Symphony No. 2
Pehr Nordgren: Symphonies 3

Honorable Mention:
Derek Bourgeois: Symphony No. 9
Derek Bourgeois: Symphony No. 33

Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Christo on May 24, 2019, 11:19:50 PM
Great to see so many 'new' symphonies here; I recall being very much impressed by all the Sumera, Haug, Nordgren and Terterian I heard (but it's all some time ago). 'New' symphonies I've been playing and highly enjoying over the last couple of months include:

Volkmar Andreae (1879-1962), Symphony in C (1919)
Luís de Freitas Branco (1890-1955), Symphony No. 2 (1926)
Ina Boyle (1889-1967), Symphony No. 1 'Glencree' (1927)
Czesław Marek (1891–1985), Sinfonia (1928)
Cyril Rootham (1875-1938), Symphony No. 2 (1938)
Paul Ben-Haim (1897-1984), Symphony No. 1 (1940)
Paul Graener (1872-1944), Wiener Symphonie (1941)
Arthur Benjamin (1893-1960), Symphony No. 1 (1945)
Paul von Klenau (1883-1946), Symphony No. 9 (1945)
Jan Koetsier (1911-2006), Symphony No. 2 (1946)
Walter Braunfels (1882-1954), Sinfonia Brevis (1948)
Mathieu Vibert (1920-1987), Symphonie funèbre (1949)
Jean-Michel Damase (1928-2013), Symphonie (1952)
Grace Williams (1906-1977), Symphony No. 2 (1956)
Hendrik Andriessen (1892-1981), Symphonie Concertante ['No. 5'] (1962)
Wilhelm Georg Berger (1929-1993), Symphony No. 4 (1964)
Ester Mägi (*1922), Symphony (1968)
Ruth Gipps (1921-1999), Symphony No. 4 (1972)
Ross Edwards (*1943), Symphony No. 1 'Da pacem Domine' (1991)

If I had to pick out six favourites - I have - they would be those by Andreae, Rootham, Ben-Haim, Benjamin, Andriessen, Gipps.  ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on May 24, 2019, 11:27:31 PM
Never forgot the recommendation, and am now finally listening to my own copy - actually two copies, as I bought both performances in last week's ABC sales at JPC (Germany).
One is with the Sydney SO under David Porcelijn, the other the Adelaide SO under Richard Mills:
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT2rafbUoKI3vy94lrZK0AUOF7hYJZ18m5-i4jCq2MG-goFreHt)(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-35bvwz4b63/images/stencil/2000x2000/products/5870/16914/ross_edwards__38871.1507010589.jpg?c=2)
I have the two recordings as well Johan. Am glad you enjoyed it as I see that it's added to your favourites list above.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Maestro267 on May 24, 2019, 11:43:43 PM
Tishchenko: Symphony No. 7
Butterworth: Symphony No. 1
Sterndale-Bennett: Symphony in G minor
Gipps: Symphony No. 2
Lyatoshynsky: Symphony No. 3
Mathias: Symphony No. 2
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: kyjo on May 27, 2019, 12:25:33 PM
Halvor Haug: Symphony No. 1
Halvor Haug: Symphony No. 2
Kevin Puts: Symphony No. 1
Kevin Puts: Symphony No. 2
Lepo Sumera: Symphony No. 2
Pehr Nordgren: Symphonies 3

Honorable Mention:
Derek Bourgeois: Symphony No. 9
Derek Bourgeois: Symphony No. 33

I wish I could find a recording of Puts’ 1st Symphony. The 2nd is a deeply impressive work.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: kyjo on May 27, 2019, 12:34:03 PM
I forget when I last posted on this thread, but here goes:

Alan Bush: Symphony no. 2 Nottingham
Jean-Michel Damase: Symphonie
Ulvi Cemal Erkin: Symphony no. 1
Alexander Moyzes: Symphony no. 7
Ludolf Nielsen: Symphony no. 3
Yngve Sköld: Symphony no. 2

Hon. mentions:
Aubert Lemeland: Symphony no. 9
Edvard Mirzoyan: Symphony for Strings and Timpani
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: PerfectWagnerite on May 27, 2019, 01:03:29 PM
I don't know too many lesser known (at least on this forum) symphonies, but lately I have been impressed with:

Symphony No. 7, Op. 49, "Les dances de la vie" by Tournemire, a unique and grabbing work.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: kyjo on May 27, 2019, 01:27:51 PM
I don't know too many lesser known (at least on this forum) symphonies, but lately I have been impressed with:

Symphony No. 7, Op. 49, "Les dances de la vie" by Tournemire, a unique and grabbing work.

Tournemire was a composer of great imagination and originality. It’s just a shame that most of the recordings of his symphonies available are rather poor (especially the ones on Marco Polo). I’d love to hear what a top-tier orchestra, conductor, and record company could do with his music.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on May 27, 2019, 07:35:08 PM
Tournemire was a composer of great imagination and originality. It’s just a shame that most of the recordings of his symphonies available are rather poor (especially the ones on Marco Polo). I’d love to hear what a top-tier orchestra, conductor, and record company could do with his music.

His Symphony 'Moscow' is especially good and I agree that he was a fine composer
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on May 27, 2019, 08:04:43 PM
I continue to read these lists with great interest.
Here's (another  ::)) new list from me, choosing different works from my original list:

Damase: 'Symphonie' (pleased to see that this is still a hit for Kyle  :))
Ruth Gipps: Symphony 4 (fabulous new release)
Freitas Branco: Symphony 4
Rootham: Symphony 2
Puts: Symphony 2
Bate: Symphony 4
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: pjme on May 28, 2019, 12:05:40 AM
Willem Pijper: symphony nr. 2
Willem Pijper: Symphony nr. 3
Mathijs Vermeulen: Symphony nr. 4 "Les victoires"
Eivind Groven: Symphony nr. 2
Gunther Kochan: Symphony nr. 2
Victor Kalabis: Symphony nr. 2

I hope Koechlin's mighty symphony nr. 2 will get a new (and very complete) recording
Belgian symphonies I like: Sternefeld 1 & 2 (Brueghel) , Meulemans 6 (The sea) and 12, Norbert Rosseau Symphony op. 53.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on May 28, 2019, 02:20:05 AM
Willem Pijper: symphony nr. 2
Willem Pijper: Symphony nr. 3
Mathijs Vermeulen: Symphony nr. 4 "Les victoires"
Eivind Groven: Symphony nr. 2
Gunther Kochan: Symphony nr. 2
Victor Kalabis: Symphony nr. 2

I hope Koechlin's mighty symphony nr. 2 will get a new (and very complete) recording
Belgian symphonies I like: Sternefeld 1 & 2 (Brueghel) , Meulemans 6 (The sea) and 12, Norbert Rosseau Symphony op. 53.
+1 for 'Sinfonia Pacis' by Kalabis.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: SymphonicAddict on May 31, 2019, 03:35:38 PM
Another list (with only first symphonies):

Fritz Brun (Switzerland) - Symphony No. 1 in B minor
Maurice Emmanuel (France) - Symphony No. 1 in A Major, Op. 18 (the No. 2 is quite good too)
Enrique Soro (Chile) - Sinfonía Romántica
Frederic Cliffe (UK) - Symphony No. 1 in C minor, Op. 1
Jef van Hoof (Belgium) - Symphony No. 1 in A major (the No. 2 and No. 4 would have been other nice choices)
Robert Hermann (Germany) - Symphony No. 1 in C major, Op. 7
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: André on May 31, 2019, 04:24:55 PM
Matthijs Vermeulen: symphony no 2, Prélude à la nouvelle journée
Jean Rogister: symphony for string quartet and orchestra
Finn Mortensen: symphony (1953)
Olav Kielland: sinfonia I
Kjell Mork Karlsen: Symphony no 3 The Ice Palace (1986)
Ib Norholm: symphony no 2 Isola Bella
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: André on June 11, 2019, 05:07:59 PM
Cross posted from WAYL thread:

Just listened to the 3rd symphony of the flemish composer, Arthur Meulemans. Sometimes nicknamed the "Fir Symphony" because it portrays "the fir trees gently rustling in their mysterious loneliness" and other nature inspirations. Whatever the subtext, it is an enchanting work.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 11, 2019, 06:02:03 PM
Cross posted from WAYL thread:

Just listened to the 3rd symphony of the flemish composer, Arthur Meulemans. Sometimes nicknamed the "Fir Symphony" because it portrays "the fir trees gently rustling in their mysterious loneliness" and other nature inspirations. Whatever the subtext, it is an enchanting work.

Yes, that work is sheer magic.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 11, 2019, 06:07:48 PM
6 more:

Hermann Suter (Switzerland) - Symphony in D minor
Asger Hamerik (Denmark) - Symphony No. 1 in F major Symphonie Poétique
Emil Mlynarski (Poland) - Symphony in F major Poland
Ernst Rudorff (Germany) - Symphony No. 3 in B minor
Joseph Ryelandt (Belgium) - Symphony No. 4 in E-flat minor Credo
Louis Andriessen (Netherlands) - Symfonie voor losse snaren
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: kyjo on June 13, 2019, 06:48:43 PM
Asger Hamerik (Denmark) - Symphony No. 1 in F major Symphonie Poétique

Don’t know Hamerik’s 1st, but I recently discovered his 6th (Symphonie Spirituelle) for string orchestra. What a stirring work, full of great tunes! One of the most impressive works for string orchestra I know.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: SymphonicAddict on June 15, 2019, 09:52:15 AM
Don’t know Hamerik’s 1st, but I recently discovered his 6th (Symphonie Spirituelle) for string orchestra. What a stirring work, full of great tunes! One of the most impressive works for string orchestra I know.

Yes, that is a great one indeed! Unfortunately Hamerik wasn't completely consistent. His last symphony Choral is really dull, a waste of time to be honest.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on June 15, 2019, 11:40:39 AM
Matthijs Vermeulen: symphony no 2, Prélude à la nouvelle journée
Jean Rogister: symphony for string quartet and orchestra
Finn Mortensen: symphony (1953)
Olav Kielland: sinfonia I
Kjell Mork Karlsen: Symphony no 3 The Ice Palace (1986)
Ib Norholm: symphony no 2 Isola Bella

Following his recent passing I'm listening to the Norholm kindly sent here by you years ago. It is very impressive indeed. I didn't realise there is a spoken contribution. Powerful and darkly atmospheric music but quite approachable as well.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: timwtheov on November 23, 2021, 08:24:04 AM
I discovered this thread a couple of months ago and have been making playlists in JRiver Media Center after abusing interlibrary loan at my university. I love it!!

One question: I'm relatively new to the forum (this is my first post), and I saw a couple of references early on in this thread to the "most hyped" Nordic composer. Who is that? Sibelius and Nielsen wouldn't be obscure enough. Aho? Langgaard?

Thanks for letting me know!
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Roasted Swan on November 23, 2021, 08:37:43 AM
I discovered this thread a couple of months ago and have been making playlists in JRiver Media Center after abusing interlibrary loan at my university. I love it!!

One question: I'm relatively new to the forum (this is my first post), and I saw a couple of references early on in this thread to the "most hyped" Nordic composer. Who is that? Sibelius and Nielsen wouldn't be obscure enough. Aho? Langgaard?

Thanks for letting me know!

I'm not sure who is considered the most-hyped Nordic composer!  If in doubt look at CPO's catalogue - stick a pin (pretty much at random!) into it and you'll probably end up with;

a) an obscure - quite possibly Nordic or Germanic composer
b) a symphony that is surprisingly fine
c) a performance and engineering that is likewise surprisingly fine. 

If the CPO catalogue fails to please repeat steps a-c with the Sterling catalogue which almost definitley will be Nordic but probably won't be as well played or recorded - enjoy! (and keep posting....)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: timwtheov on November 24, 2021, 07:03:58 AM
Many thanks, Roasted Swan. And yes, I know all about CPO, as I have many, many discs by them--Sterling less so, though I'm aware of them too.

Actually, it turns out the post above was my 2nd, as I'd posted in Bruckner's Abbey back in March but had totally forgotten I'd done so. Anyway, thanks again! Still want to know who that composer is, however!
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Brian on November 24, 2021, 08:09:22 AM
I looked at those old pages and am pretty sure that the "most hyped GMG composer from Scandinavia" was Kurt Atterberg. Roasted Swan is correct, the best cycle of his symphonies is indeed on CPO  ;D Atterberg is one of a number of composers who are beloved on GMG vastly out of proportion to their popularity in the "real world" - others being Joly Braga Santos, Havergal Brian, Vagn Holmboe, and Nikolai Myaskovsky. Very fortunately, the real world is finally catching up to us on Martinu.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 24, 2021, 08:41:07 AM
I looked at those old pages and am pretty sure that the "most hyped GMG composer from Scandinavia" was Kurt Atterberg. Roasted Swan is correct, the best cycle of his symphonies is indeed on CPO  ;D Atterberg is one of a number of composers who are beloved on GMG vastly out of proportion to their popularity in the "real world" - others being Joly Braga Santos, Havergal Brian, Vagn Holmboe, and Nikolai Myaskovsky. Very fortunately, the real world is finally catching up to us on Martinu.
Boy, I think of him [Martinu] as being well known.   ???

PD
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: timwtheov on November 24, 2021, 11:11:30 AM
Ah yes, Atterberg. Should have thought of him. I have that cycle on CPO, plus the Chandos discs, though I don't know any of them well. Putting the suggested symphonies on the requisite playlists will give me a good excuse for going back to him.

Thanks for answering and for your reviews on MusicWeb, Brian!
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: timwtheov on November 24, 2021, 11:19:00 AM
On the other hand, I just looked back at Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich's post from March 24, 2009, on page 2, and he'd listed Atterberg's 3rd + "The GMG most hyPEd composer from Scandinavia - Symphony No. 6" in his (?) list of six. Maybe the capital "PE" in "hyPEd" is a clue?
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on November 24, 2021, 01:20:49 PM
This remains my favourite recording of Atterberg's 3rd Symphony:
(http://)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on November 24, 2021, 01:25:27 PM
Here's a new list featuring different composers from those featured on my opening list.

David Diamond: Symphony No.3

Eshpai: Symphony No.5

Ruth Gipps: Symphony No.4

Daniel Jones: Symphony No.4 'In Memory of Dylan Thomas'

Rootham: Symphony No.2

Ben-Haim: Symphony No.1
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: timwtheov on November 24, 2021, 03:31:20 PM
Looks like yet another great list! I'll be making a playlist of it shortly . . . .
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Brian on November 25, 2021, 07:25:26 AM
On the other hand, I just looked back at Tapio Dimitriyevich Shostakovich's post from March 24, 2009, on page 2, and he'd listed Atterberg's 3rd + "The GMG most hyPEd composer from Scandinavia - Symphony No. 6" in his (?) list of six. Maybe the capital "PE" in "hyPEd" is a clue?
Pettersson?!?!?!
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: kyjo on November 25, 2021, 09:49:24 AM
I looked at those old pages and am pretty sure that the "most hyped GMG composer from Scandinavia" was Kurt Atterberg. Roasted Swan is correct, the best cycle of his symphonies is indeed on CPO  ;D Atterberg is one of a number of composers who are beloved on GMG vastly out of proportion to their popularity in the "real world" - others being Joly Braga Santos, Havergal Brian, Vagn Holmboe, and Nikolai Myaskovsky. Very fortunately, the real world is finally catching up to us on Martinu.

If only GMG was the “real world”… :'( But yeah, I agree with your observations - I would also add Langgaard to that list.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: kyjo on November 25, 2021, 10:25:05 AM
New list:

Alfano: Symphony no. 2
Alnæs: Symphony no. 1
Dopper: Symphony no. 7 Zuiderzee
Hailstork: Symphony no. 2
Hashimoto: Symphony no. 1
Mortensen: Symphony
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Symphonic Addict on November 25, 2021, 07:13:46 PM
New list:

Alfano: Symphony no. 2
Alnæs: Symphony no. 1
Dopper: Symphony no. 7 Zuiderzee
Hailstork: Symphony no. 2
Hashimoto: Symphony no. 1
Mortensen: Symphony

Thumbs up for the Alfano, Alnaes and Mortensen. Fascinating works.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: timwtheov on November 25, 2021, 07:14:41 PM
Kyjo, another great list to add.

And yes, Brian, Allan Pettersson occurred to me: I think I'll make it him.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Symphonic Addict on November 25, 2021, 07:25:48 PM
This thread has encouraged me to give a list. Let's see...


Olav Kielland: Sinfonia I, a granitic, organic and intense piece.

Adolfs Skulte: Symphony No. 9, incredibly powerful in the vein of Ivanovs, Tubin, Holmboe.

Henk Badings: Symphony No. 12 Symphonische Klangfiguren, a fascinating work from start to finish. Its sound world is otherwordly.

Daniel Sternefeld: Symphony No. 1, as far as I recall, it has bite and driving moments.

Torbjörn Lundquist: Symphony No. 4 Sinfonia ecologica, a work I could call "epic" because of its ambition. 45 minutes of great music without pauses.

Stanley Bate: Symphony No. 3, definitely one of the most impressive neglected and quasi "forgotten" English symphonies.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on November 25, 2021, 11:28:30 PM
Looks like yet another great list! I'll be making a playlist of it shortly . . . .
:)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on November 25, 2021, 11:31:19 PM
This thread has encouraged me to give a list. Let's see...


Olav Kielland: Sinfonia I, a granitic, organic and intense piece.

Adolfs Skulte: Symphony No. 9, incredibly powerful in the vein of Ivanovs, Tubin, Holmboe.

Henk Badings: Symphony No. 12 Symphonische Klangfiguren, a fascinating work from start to finish. Its sound world is otherwordly.

Daniel Sternefeld: Symphony No. 1, as far as I recall, it has bite and driving moments.

Torbjörn Lundquist: Symphony No. 4 Sinfonia ecologica, a work I could call "epic" because of its ambition. 45 minutes of great music without pauses.

Stanley Bate: Symphony No. 3, definitely one of the most impressive neglected and quasi "forgotten" English symphonies.
Big thumbs up for Sternefeld and Bate (Bate's 4th Symphony is another favourite). I think that the Sternefeld was written when the composer (who was Jewish) was in hiding in Nazi-occupied Belgium. He risked his life in 1943 by coming out of hiding to attend the funeral of his teacher Paul Gilson in Brussels.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: kyjo on November 27, 2021, 09:07:52 AM
This thread has encouraged me to give a list. Let's see...


Olav Kielland: Sinfonia I, a granitic, organic and intense piece.

Adolfs Skulte: Symphony No. 9, incredibly powerful in the vein of Ivanovs, Tubin, Holmboe.

Henk Badings: Symphony No. 12 Symphonische Klangfiguren, a fascinating work from start to finish. Its sound world is otherwordly.

Daniel Sternefeld: Symphony No. 1, as far as I recall, it has bite and driving moments.

Torbjörn Lundquist: Symphony No. 4 Sinfonia ecologica, a work I could call "epic" because of its ambition. 45 minutes of great music without pauses.

Stanley Bate: Symphony No. 3, definitely one of the most impressive neglected and quasi "forgotten" English symphonies.

If only I could find a recording of the Kielland…. :'( So far I’ve only heard Badings’ 4th Symphony which impressed me greatly. The Sternefeld is superb - surprisingly “modern” in places and searingly intense. Ditto the Bate - his 4th may be even finer IIRC.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: kyjo on November 27, 2021, 09:10:13 AM
New list:

Alfano: Symphony no. 2
Alnæs: Symphony no. 1
Dopper: Symphony no. 7 Zuiderzee
Hailstork: Symphony no. 2
Hashimoto: Symphony no. 1
Mortensen: Symphony

Seeing as the Mortensen has already been mentioned multiple times previously in this thread, I’ll offer Fernström’s Symphony no. 6 as a bonus. 8)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: André on November 27, 2021, 12:53:23 PM
It’s good you mentioned the Zuiderzee symphony, Kyle. It’s a powerfully evocative work. Jan van Gilse’s no 4 is another excellent work by a Dutch composer.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on November 27, 2021, 01:28:06 PM
New list:

Alfano: Symphony no. 2
Alnæs: Symphony no. 1
Dopper: Symphony no. 7 Zuiderzee
Hailstork: Symphony no. 2
Hashimoto: Symphony no. 1
Mortensen: Symphony
Big thumbs up for Hashimoto's First Symphony. I'm going to include Moroi's moving and eloquent 3rd Symphony as well (a powerful lament for the victims of war).
(http://)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Symphonic Addict on November 27, 2021, 05:09:10 PM
Big thumbs up for Hashimoto's First Symphony. I'm going to include Moroi's moving and eloquent 3rd Symphony as well (a powerful lament for the victims of war).
(http://)

One of my favorite Japanese symphonies for sure. This Naxos Japanese series is nothing but fabulous.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Symphonic Addict on November 27, 2021, 06:00:40 PM
If only I could find a recording of the Kielland…. :'( So far I’ve only heard Badings’ 4th Symphony which impressed me greatly. The Sternefeld is superb - surprisingly “modern” in places and searingly intense. Ditto the Bate - his 4th may be even finer IIRC.

You should give a try to the Skulte when you can. It's a stunner, a dramatic utterance if you have empathy with works like that.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Symphonic Addict on November 27, 2021, 08:21:33 PM
I could go with other six nine:

Goldenthal: Othello Symphony
Niigaki: Hiroshima Symphony
Ovchinnikov: Symphony No. 1
Bræin: Symphony No. 2
Landowski: Symphony No. 2
Sulek: Symphony no. 6
Chargeishvili: Symphony
Soderlind: Symphony No. 8 In memoriam of Sibelius
Bentzon: Symphony No. 5 Ellipser
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: kyjo on November 27, 2021, 08:55:20 PM
It’s good you mentioned the Zuiderzee symphony, Kyle. It’s a powerfully evocative work. Jan van Gilse’s no 4 is another excellent work by a Dutch composer.

The qualities of Dopper's Zuiderzee Symphony that really struck me are its sheer tunefulness, color, and even sense of humor (it quotes Handel's Harmonious Blacksmith at one point in the slow movement)! I'll have to check out the van Gilse. It seems there are many excellent Dutch composers who are all but unknown....
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: kyjo on November 27, 2021, 08:57:35 PM
You should give a try to the Skulte when you can. It's a stunner, a dramatic utterance if you have empathy with works like that.

I will! Of course I have empathy with works in the vein of Tubin and Holmboe. ;)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on November 28, 2021, 02:03:42 AM
I could go with other six nine:

Goldenthal: Othello Symphony
Niigaki: Hiroshima Symphony
Ovchinnikov: Symphony No. 1
Bræin: Symphony No. 2
Landowski: Symphony No. 2
Sulek: Symphony no. 6
Chargeishvili: Symphony
Soderlind: Symphony No. 8 In memoriam of Sibelius
Bentzon: Symphony No. 5 Ellipser

The Ovchinnikov and Soderlind are favourites of mine as well. I wish that they were available on CD.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: André on November 28, 2021, 12:18:59 PM
The Ovchinnikov and Soderlind are favourites of mine as well. I wish that they were available on CD.

I don’t know Söderlind but intend to remedy that oversight  :).

+ 1 for Chargeishvili, Ovchinnikov and Landowski  ;D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on November 29, 2021, 05:10:29 AM
I don’t know Söderlind but intend to remedy that oversight  :).

+ 1 for Chargeishvili, Ovchinnikov and Landowski  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr5oA_cyfZk
 :)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Irons on December 11, 2021, 02:06:01 AM
I could go with other six nine:

Goldenthal: Othello Symphony
Niigaki: Hiroshima Symphony
Ovchinnikov: Symphony No. 1
Bræin: Symphony No. 2
Landowski: Symphony No. 2
Sulek: Symphony no. 6
Chargeishvili: Symphony
Soderlind: Symphony No. 8 In memoriam of Sibelius
Bentzon: Symphony No. 5 Ellipser


Playing the role of a guinea pig; If I have heard of him then no way a really lesser-known composer. Landowski rings a bell (I think). The others are unknown to me. Same goes for Kyjo's list above.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Symphonic Addict on December 11, 2021, 08:12:30 PM
Playing the role of a guinea pig; If I have heard of him then no way a really lesser-known composer. Landowski rings a bell (I think). The others are unknown to me. Same goes for Kyjo's list above.

Please, don't be ashamed to try different composers. I have a slight hunch about how you could react to each of them.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Irons on December 12, 2021, 02:11:54 AM
Please, don't be ashamed to try different composers. I have a slight hunch about how you could react to each of them.

I'm not one to shirk a challenge. 8) I will pull one from your list at random and listen with undivided attention. ;)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Irons on December 13, 2021, 09:15:12 AM
I'm not one to shirk a challenge. 8) I will pull one from your list at random and listen with undivided attention. ;)

Niels Viggo Bentzon: 5th Symphony.

A symphony that adds up with the sum of it's parts to make a symphonic whole. What impressed me most though was the sincerity of the work, something I find lacking in many symphonies by far better known composers. Bentzon is his own man, the second movement has echoes of Richard Strauss and overall there may be some Nielsen influence but this is all slight.
I thank Cesar for introducing this work which I find impressive enough to order a copy. 
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: kyjo on December 13, 2021, 08:45:24 PM
Niels Viggo Bentzon: 5th Symphony.

A symphony that adds up with the sum of it's parts to make a symphonic whole. What impressed me most though was the sincerity of the work, something I find lacking in many symphonies by far better known composers. Bentzon is his own man, the second movement has echoes of Richard Strauss and overall there may be some Nielsen influence but this is all slight.
I thank Cesar for introducing this work which I find impressive enough to order a copy.

Sounds most appealing, Irons. I've never heard a note of Bentzon's music - looks like it's time to change that!
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Irons on December 14, 2021, 01:25:32 AM
Sounds most appealing, Irons. I've never heard a note of Bentzon's music - looks like it's time to change that!

Hope you enjoy as much as I did, Kyle. Dig that arresting opening. ;)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: André on December 14, 2021, 07:35:53 AM
Hope you enjoy as much as I did, Kyle. Dig that arresting opening. ;)
A superb work indeed, an A+ in my notebook  :)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Irons on December 14, 2021, 09:49:25 AM
A superb work indeed, an A+ in my notebook  :)

Thanks for saying that. I was beginning to worry. :D
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: vandermolen on December 15, 2021, 11:29:03 PM
Niels Viggo Bentzon: 5th Symphony.

A symphony that adds up with the sum of it's parts to make a symphonic whole. What impressed me most though was the sincerity of the work, something I find lacking in many symphonies by far better known composers. Bentzon is his own man, the second movement has echoes of Richard Strauss and overall there may be some Nielsen influence but this is all slight.
I thank Cesar for introducing this work which I find impressive enough to order a copy.
I remember enjoying this CD Lol, especially Symphony No.4
(http://)
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Irons on December 16, 2021, 12:57:14 AM
I remember enjoying this CD Lol, especially Symphony No.4
(http://)

After his excellent set of the Nielsen symphonies Jeffrey I wondered what happened to Ole Schmidt. Now I know.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Symphonic Addict on December 17, 2021, 05:55:36 PM
Niels Viggo Bentzon: 5th Symphony.

A symphony that adds up with the sum of it's parts to make a symphonic whole. What impressed me most though was the sincerity of the work, something I find lacking in many symphonies by far better known composers. Bentzon is his own man, the second movement has echoes of Richard Strauss and overall there may be some Nielsen influence but this is all slight.
I thank Cesar for introducing this work which I find impressive enough to order a copy.

I thought I had replied you. Sorry. Good to hear, Irons! Bentzon wrote some captivating works with a stamp of his own. I wish DaCapo could start a project to record the whole cycle (more than 20)!
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Symphonic Addict on December 17, 2021, 05:57:22 PM
After his excellent set of the Nielsen symphonies Jeffrey I wondered what happened to Ole Schmidt. Now I know.

He died in 2010. He could have been a strong conductor nowadays had he lived till these years.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Cato on December 17, 2021, 06:18:42 PM
For your consideration:  Etienne Mehul!

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/75/76/0190374077675_600.jpg)


https://www.youtube.com/v/jH9LjmZ59dQ
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Symphonic Addict on December 17, 2021, 07:20:56 PM
Méhul, Onslow and Reinecke do come to my mind regarding composers from 1800-1880. I've enjoyed their respective symphonies.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: foxandpeng on December 18, 2021, 12:27:20 AM
Méhul, Onslow and Reinecke do come to my mind regarding composers from 1800-1880. I've enjoyed their respective symphonies.

+1 for Onslow. He also wrote an inordinate number of string quartets and quintets.
Title: Re: Six favourite symphonies by (really) lesser-known composers.
Post by: Irons on December 18, 2021, 06:46:59 AM
I thought I had replied you. Sorry. Good to hear, Irons! Bentzon wrote some captivating works with a stamp of his own. I wish DaCapo could start a project to record the whole cycle (more than 20)!

For a "really lesser-known" composer there is a surprising amount of recordings available, SA. I understand piano was his forte, of which there are a few of Bentzon playing his own compositions.

He died in 2010. He could have been a strong conductor nowadays had he lived till these years.

Shame. Thanks for info.