Sergei Rachmaninov (1873-1943)

Started by Chaszz, December 10, 2009, 04:35:52 PM

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Maestro267

#600
March 06, 2023, 05:45:56 AM
Probably better than the Jansons/St. Petersburg. You can hardly hear the tam-tam in that one.

Lisztianwagner

#601
March 06, 2023, 07:15:35 AM
Quote from: Maestro267 on March 06, 2023, 05:29:11 AMI'm looking for a good Symphonic Dances with cataclysmic-sounding tam-tam strokes at the end. The traditionally-recced recording of Jansons doesn't cut the mustard for me. I'm gutted Noseda and BBC Philharmonic didn't record it in their otherwise excellent traversal of the symphonies.
You may also try Ashkenazy/Concertgebouw Orchestra, it's very thrilling, with powerful strokes of percussion in the finale.
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." - Gustav Mahler

Florestan

#602
March 06, 2023, 07:27:01 AM
Edo de Waart / London PO.
There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law. — Claude Debussy

Symphonic Addict

#603
March 06, 2023, 08:40:26 AM Last Edit: March 06, 2023, 09:40:00 AM by Løvfald
The final tam-tam stroke here is quite noticeable and reverberates fantastically:

Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

LKB

#604
March 06, 2023, 07:38:32 PM
I've enjoyed Ashkenazy with the RCO on Decca since buying the CD back in the '80's.

While I'm not sure I'd describe the tam-tam at the end with the word " cataclysmic ", on the whole it's an excellent recording.
Mit Flügeln, die ich mir errungen...

relm1

#605
March 07, 2023, 05:33:04 AM
Quote from: LKB on March 06, 2023, 07:38:32 PMI've enjoyed Ashkenazy with the RCO on Decca since buying the CD back in the '80's.

While I'm not sure I'd describe the tam-tam at the end with the word " cataclysmic ", on the whole it's an excellent recording.

I think we've been weaned in to hearing bigger tam-tam at the end over the years.  I recall the excellent Ashkenazy as having a blazing end when I first heard it but hearing it yesterday, it felt so mannered.  I then thought surely the Russians won't disappoint and after hearing Kondrashin, Rozhdestvensky, and Svetlanov - all seemed timid in their final tam-tam.  More recent performances seem to let it pop out more but now, they seem climactic but definitely not cataclysmic. 

Madiel

#606
March 07, 2023, 11:58:43 AM
Back in the day, tam-tam players had style.
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LKB

#607
March 07, 2023, 12:59:14 PM
Quote from: Madiel on March 07, 2023, 11:58:43 AMBack in the day, tam-tam players had style.

There is such a thing as too much style...

Before l took up the oboe, l was a percussionist, mainly playing timpani. The season finale for my college's orchestra was the Mussorgsky-Ravel Pictures at an Exhibition ( which we in the drum line called " Pictures of an Execution ", in reference to the rather dubious quality displayed by the strings in a few unfortunate places ).

As y'all are aware, the piece finishes in spectacular fashion. Triumphant E-Flat Major chords resound, with alternating bell and tam-tam framing the victorious orchestral eruptions.

So we're maybe thirty seconds from the end, and while executing the rather basic timpani part I'm also listening to the bell and the tam-tam. All in all the orchestra has done ok, I'm thinking, when...

CRASH!

I look over to see the guy on tam-tam staring at his charge, which is now flat on the stage apparently impersonating a rather unusual wok.

Props to the conductor for not having a meltdown. I kept on going without a blink, thinking, " Glad that wasn't me. "

Too much style, indeed.
Mit Flügeln, die ich mir errungen...

Madiel

#608
March 07, 2023, 02:42:17 PM
I was basically joking, but it was totally worth it for prompting that anecdote.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

kyjo

#609
March 17, 2023, 06:01:12 PM
Quote from: Løvfald on March 06, 2023, 08:40:26 AMThe final tam-tam stroke here is quite noticeable and reverberates fantastically:



Damn, what great cover art!
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

Symphonic Addict

#610
March 20, 2023, 05:47:21 PM
Quote from: kyjo on March 17, 2023, 06:01:12 PMDamn, what great cover art!

The same applies to the performance of the Rachmaninov (I don't recall hearing the Janacek yet). I really like it.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Maestro267

#611
March 31, 2023, 10:44:27 PM
Today is the big day! Happy 150th, Sergei!

listener

#612
April 01, 2023, 03:00:26 AM
"Keep your hand on the throttle and your eye on the rail as you walk through life's pathway."

Lisztianwagner

#613
April 01, 2023, 03:17:08 AM
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." - Gustav Mahler

vandermolen

#614
April 01, 2023, 04:23:01 AM
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Madiel

#616
November 05, 2023, 07:05:46 PM
Late Rachmaninoff is the best Rachmaninoff in my book.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Roasted Swan

#617
March 26, 2024, 05:46:39 AM
Given the composer's enduring popularity it strikes me that he is relatively under-discussed here on GMG.....

As a contribution to the "neglected conductors" thread I mentioned Walter Weller and specifically his Rachmaninov cycle;



As an aside - didn't those old Decca LP boxes have DREADFUL artwork - it was series including their Sibelius/Dvorak/Tchaik cycles as well - all equally grim....

But I digress.... so I've been listening to all 3 symphonies in these versions and they are - as I remembered - really very good indeed.  A volatile exciting No.1 (with the Suisse Romande in much better form than often was the case in the 1970's - Horst Stein's Sibelius an honourable exception) followed by very fine Nos.2&3 with the LPO in vintage analogue/Kingsway Hall sound.

Like many others, Weller does not take the exposition repeat in No.2.  I have to say my preference IS for the repeat but that's a minority view I know.  But why?  Rachmaninov knew what he was doing - after all he ALSO uses an exposition repeat in Symphony No.3 as well - is that the "last"/latest symphony to be written with one? - and no-one ever suggests missing that repeat out.  Of course the 'problem' with No.2 is that it makes an already long movement longer.  But my argument would be that all that does is put the onus on the interpreters to make something of the repeat.  If all you do is a 'straight' play-it-again-Sam reprise then yes it is boring.  Rozhdestvensky's very fine LSO version includes the repeat AND the basic tempo is slow as well but the result - for me - is just wonderful and wholly convincing. 

What do other folk think/prefer?

steve ridgway

#618
March 26, 2024, 07:15:30 AM
A volatile exciting No.1 (with the Suisse Romande in much better form than often was the case in the 1970's - Horst Stein's Sibelius an honourable exception) followed by very fine Nos.2&3 with the LPO in vintage analogue/Kingsway Hall sound.
[/quote]

Oh, is No. 1 all right then? I was reading that SR became very depressed after that had a "disastrous premiere" :'( .

Roasted Swan

#619
March 26, 2024, 08:19:36 AM
Quote from: steve ridgway on March 26, 2024, 07:15:30 AMA volatile exciting No.1 (with the Suisse Romande in much better form than often was the case in the 1970's - Horst Stein's Sibelius an honourable exception) followed by very fine Nos.2&3 with the LPO in vintage analogue/Kingsway Hall sound.


Oh, is No. 1 all right then? I was reading that SR became very depressed after that had a "disastrous premiere" :'( .

Yes - the premiere (conducted by an allegedly drunk Glazunov!) that prompted the critic Cui to say (something to the effect of) "if there was an orchestra in hell this is what they would play...."

The fascinating "sliding door" thing is IF the work had been a big success would Rachmaninov's composing career followed a different path?  Symphony 1 is a remarkable - truly remarkable work.  After all it was his Conservatoire graduation piece!  I cannot think of any works of similar precocious brilliance except Shostakovich's Symphony 1 (another graduation work) and Korngold's Sinfonietta - the ultimate child prodigy (along with Mozart and Mendelssohn I think).  For sure its by no means perfect but Rachmaninov consigned it to oblivion and never returned to it/revised it.  So many fascinating mature fngerprints though from the use of Chants and the Dies Irae to the sense of foreboding and Slavic high drama.
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