Herrmann's Humdinging House of (Hardly Haphazard) Harmonic Hoots

[Cato]

Bernard Herrmann's On Dangerous Ground, as mentioned earlier, has been given a new recording.

Here is the famous Death Hunt along with the powerful ending, which is usually omitted in other performances.

William Stromberg and The Royal Scottish National Orchestra:

[Roasted Swan]

Bernard Herrmann's On Dangerous Ground, as mentioned earlier, has been given a new recording.

Here is the famous Death Hunt along with the powerful ending, which is usually omitted in other performances.

William Stromberg and The Royal Scottish National Orchestra:

I haven't heard this YouTube version just the "sample" you get on music sale websites.  The basic tempo is notably slower than the famous Gerhardt.  I'm guessing this new version is more "authentic" tempo-wise but gosh isn't the Gerhardt more viscerally exciting?  I won't be rushing to buy this just yet.......

[Cato]

I haven't heard this YouTube version just the "sample" you get on music sale websites.  The basic tempo is notably slower than the famous Gerhardt.  I'm guessing this new version is more "authentic" tempo-wise but gosh isn't the Gerhardt more viscerally exciting? I won't be rushing to buy this just yet.......

Yes, Gerhardt remains the best!  This is very good, but Charles Gerhardt is just golden!

On the other hand, we now have a stereo performance of the entire score, so I will buy this eventually! 

[Roasted Swan]

Yes, Gerhardt remains the best!  This is very good, but Charles Gerhardt is just golden!

On the other hand, we now have a stereo performance of the entire score, so I will buy this eventually! 

I'm sure I will too - but I'm trying to delay the spend for the time being!!

PS:  as with many people - that Gerhardt/disc/series opened my ears to the astonishing range and impact of so many of the great film composers.  That Herrmann disc (which I first owned on a cassette with dodgy transients) opens with "The Death Hunt" and I was hooked in a bout 5 seconds flat.  In case I was wavering the Salammbo's aria from Citizen Kane with the very young Kiri Te Kanawa did the rest;

[Roasted Swan]

[vandermolen]

I just finished writing the booklet notes for a forthcoming (September) release (Alto CD) of material formerly available on the defunct Koch label. This will include Herrmann's fine Symphony (Sedares/Phoenix SO), 'For the Fallen' (actually my suggestion  ), 'Piano Concerto from Hangover Square' (performed, in the film, as the mad composer/pianist burns down the concert hall). The movie is on You Tube, and music from 'The Devil and Daniel Webster'. I much prefer Herrmann's wartime 'For the Fallen' which is moving whilst eschewing sentimentality than, for example, John Williams's 'Hymn to the Fallen' from 'Saving Private Ryan' (a great film) which I find mawkish and sentimental.

[Roasted Swan]

I just finished writing the booklet notes for a forthcoming (September) release (Alto CD) of material formerly available on the defunct Koch label. This will include Herrmann's fine Symphony (Sedares/Phoenix SO), 'For the Fallen' (actually my suggestion  ), 'Piano Concerto from Hangover Square' (performed, in the film, as the mad composer/pianist burns down the concert hall). The movie is on You Tube, and music from 'The Devil and Daniel Webster'. I much prefer Herrmann's wartime 'For the Fallen' which is moving whilst eschewing sentimentality than, for example, John Williams's 'Hymn to the Fallen' from 'Saving Private Ryan' (a great film) which I find mawkish and sentimental.

That Sedares version of the symphony is very good.  The Alto couplings are great too but I actually like the original KOCH coupling of William Schuman's wonderful "New England Tryptich" which got a cracking performance under Sedares.

[vandermolen]

That Sedares version of the symphony is very good.  The Alto couplings are great too but I actually like the original KOCH coupling of William Schuman's wonderful "New England Triptych" which got a cracking performance under Sedares.

Totally agree with you about the New England Triptych. However, the big boss at Alto doesn't usually like to feature the music of more than one composer on a CD. Originally Herrmann's 'Sinfonietta' was on the programme but that was considered 'too atonal' in the end. A pity, as I rather like it and the revised version echoes the 'Psycho' soundtrack. I suggested 'For the Fallen' which I find very moving in a rather understated way.

[Cato]

Totally agree with you about the New England Triptych. However, the big boss at Alto doesn't usually like to feature the music of more than one composer on a CD. Originally Herrmann's 'Sinfonietta' was on the programme but that was considered 'too atonal' in the end. A pity, as I rather like it and the revised version echoes the 'Psycho' soundtrack. I suggested 'For the Fallen' which I find very moving in a rather understated way.

YES to the Sinfonietta!  "Too atonal" is a marvelously narrow-minded phrase! 

The Symphony is also an excellent work, but the Sinfonietta burns down the barn, maybe because it is too atonal! 

[relm1]

I just finished writing the booklet notes for a forthcoming (September) release (Alto CD) of material formerly available on the defunct Koch label. This will include Herrmann's fine Symphony (Sedares/Phoenix SO), 'For the Fallen' (actually my suggestion  ), 'Piano Concerto from Hangover Square' (performed, in the film, as the mad composer/pianist burns down the concert hall). The movie is on You Tube, and music from 'The Devil and Daniel Webster'. I much prefer Herrmann's wartime 'For the Fallen' which is moving whilst eschewing sentimentality than, for example, John Williams's 'Hymn to the Fallen' from 'Saving Private Ryan' (a great film) which I find mawkish and sentimental.

I am curious about your opinion here.  Herrmann is generally the more exaggerated composer but based on music you and I both love, you seem to always like music that others could consider sentimental.  Why does that sometimes work and in the case of Saving Private Ryan not work?   That is a score almost entirely devoid of sentimentality with the possible exception of a measured dose of it in the closest thing to a theme, 'Hymn to the Fallen'.  Basically, I want to better understand what you mean if you can elaborate further. 

[Roasted Swan]

YES to the Sinfonietta!  "Too atonal" is a marvelously narrow-minded phrase! 

The Symphony is also an excellent work, but the Sinfonietta burns down the barn, maybe because it is too atonal! 

NO MINOR CHORDS!!!!!!!!

[vandermolen]

YES to the Sinfonietta!  "Too atonal" is a marvelously narrow-minded phrase! 

The Symphony is also an excellent work, but the Sinfonietta burns down the barn, maybe because it is too atonal! 

I agree Leo. I told the big boss at Alto that including the more modernist Sinfonietta was a good idea as it showed the trajectory of Herrmann's musical development - otherwise, I pointed out, that the CD was in danger of turning into 'Bernard Herrmann's Greatest Hits'. He responded by saying that he was happy to have 'Herrmann's Greatest Hits' released on an Alto CD - a fair point I guess. 

[vandermolen]

I am curious about your opinion here.  Herrmann is generally the more exaggerated composer but based on music you and I both love, you seem to always like music that others could consider sentimental.  Why does that sometimes work and in the case of Saving Private Ryan not work?   That is a score almost entirely devoid of sentimentality with the possible exception of a measured dose of it in the closest thing to a theme, 'Hymn to the Fallen'.  Basically, I want to better understand what you mean if you can elaborate further. 

Am at work but will think about it and get back to you. 

[vandermolen]

I am curious about your opinion here.  Herrmann is generally the more exaggerated composer but based on music you and I both love, you seem to always like music that others could consider sentimental.  Why does that sometimes work and in the case of Saving Private Ryan not work?  That is a score almost entirely devoid of sentimentality with the possible exception of a measured dose of it in the closest thing to a theme, 'Hymn to the Fallen'.  Basically, I want to better understand what you mean if you can elaborate further. 

Maybe I didn't make myself clear before. I actually think that the score for 'Saving Private Ryan' is excellent - one of my favourites actually. It's just the 'Hymn to the Fallen' which I dislike (unfortunately it features at both the beginning and the end of the soundtrack CD). I think that it's the choral contribution which I find most sickly-sweet and mawkish - I avoid those tracks. I think that it sounds contrived, like a pastiche and a not very good attempt to write a modern 'Adagio for Strings' (Barber). I feel that Herrmann's wartime 'For the Fallen' derives from the wartime context of its composition (like Moore's 'In Memoriam') and is also influenced by Debussy's 'berceuse heroique' written during the First World War and also a kind of soothing lullaby. Maybe I'm a cynic but 'Hymn to the Fallen' sounds contrived to me rather than emanating from lived experience. My favourite track on 'Saving Private Ryan' is 'High School Teacher' which, partly for personal reasons and because of the accompanying scene in the film I find genuinely moving.

[Karl Henning]

I'll take advantage of the tangent to say that you gents remind me that I've not yet seen Saving Pvt Ryan, so I'll look for it at the library.

[vandermolen]

I'll take advantage of the tangent to say that you gents remind me that I've not yet seen Saving Pvt Ryan, so I'll look for it at the library.

Oh, it's an excellent film Karl. Probably my favourite film by Spielberg (much as I like 'Jaws'). Watch out for that bleached-out American flag. I'm sure that it represents something but I'm not sure what. Maybe that the values that it represents (Democracy, Justice, Freedom) are eroded but just about surviving. It's a wonderfully intelligent film and beautifully acted. The opening scene on Omaha Beach is unforgettable. No sign of the British of course - I guess they were getting in the way somewhere else! 

[Franco_Manitobain]

Oh, it's an excellent film Karl. Probably my favourite film by Spielberg (much as I like 'Jaws'). Watch out for that bleached-out American flag. I'm sure that it represents something but I'm not sure what. Maybe that the values that it represents (Democracy, Justice, Freedom) are eroded but just about surviving. It's a wonderfully intelligent film and beautifully acted. The opening scene on Omaha Beach is unforgettable. No sign of the British of course - I guess they were getting in the way somewhere else! 

Saving Private Ryan is a great film.  I am still scratching my head that it lost the Oscar best picture to Shakespeare in Love? 

[relm1]

I'll take advantage of the tangent to say that you gents remind me that I've not yet seen Saving Pvt Ryan, so I'll look for it at the library.

It is so good - make sure to see it in a single setting.  It has some powerfully moving sequences, but they are the quiet and tender moments.  There is one scene I think is so deeply felt and just comes from an extremely simple facial gesture by the late Tom Sizemore.  I don't know why that scene impacts me so deeply, it's just so masterfully done. 

[relm1]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear before. I actually think that the score for 'Saving Private Ryan' is excellent - one of my favourites actually. It's just the 'Hymn to the Fallen' which I dislike (unfortunately it features at both the beginning and the end of the soundtrack CD). I think that it's the choral contribution which I find most sickly-sweet and mawkish - I avoid those tracks. I think that it sounds contrived, like a pastiche and a not very good attempt to write a modern 'Adagio for Strings' (Barber). I feel that Herrmann's wartime 'For the Fallen' derives from the wartime context of its composition (like Moore's 'In Memoriam') and is also influenced by Debussy's 'berceuse heroique' written during the First World War and also a kind of soothing lullaby. Maybe I'm a cynic but 'Hymn to the Fallen' sounds contrived to me rather than emanating from lived experience. My favourite track on 'Saving Private Ryan' is 'High School Teacher' which, partly for personal reasons and because of the accompanying scene in the film I find genuinely moving.

Makes sense. 

A tangent of a tangent, I don't think Yanks and British liked each other much during WWII.  I stumbled upon a training video to American GI's about how to act in England.  The caricatures of both the Americans and English are jarring but it must have really felt this way to both nationals when probably few had traveled outside their country before the war so meeting each other must have come as a very big cultural shock.  The moment where the yank teased the Scotts about wearing a kilt was very cringy but I liked Burgess Meredith's reaction that they are tougher than you might think. 

[vandermolen]

Makes sense. 

A tangent of a tangent, I don't think Yanks and British liked each other much during WWII.  I stumbled upon a training video to American GI's about how to act in England.  The caricatures of both the Americans and English are jarring but it must have really felt this way to both nationals when probably few had traveled outside their country before the war so meeting each other must have come as a very big cultural shock.  The moment where the yank teased the Scotts about wearing a kilt was very cringy but I liked Burgess Meredith's reaction that they are tougher than you might think. 

I'm a great fan of Burgess Meredith (a great actor). Coincidentally I've been listening to him narrating John Williams's (fine) score for 'The Reivers'. I guess that many people, myself included, associate him with The Penguin from 'Batman' and his endearing contribution to the original (and incomparably better) 'Clash of the Titans'.