GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: nathanb on September 27, 2016, 07:37:48 PM

Title: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: nathanb on September 27, 2016, 07:37:48 PM
I have held my tongue in regards to composers with no threads for quite some time, but come on now.

Iancu Dumitrescu (1944-)
Ana-Maria Avram (1961-)
The Hyperion Ensemble


And all associated efforts.

Discuss.
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: bhodges on September 27, 2016, 07:57:12 PM
Well, no tongue-holding needed: feel free to start threads on any of these (all new to me).

Or, discussion here is fine, too.

8)

--Bruce
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on September 27, 2016, 08:36:10 PM
I'm fairly sure I've heard something by Dumitrescu at some point when looking around for things in YouTube, but I have no clue what it was! :o
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: GioCar on September 27, 2016, 11:27:34 PM
I think I've never heard anything by Dumitrescu or Avram. Any works you recommend?

Re The Hyperion Ensemble, the only ensemble I know with that name is the jazzy one playing tango music http://www.ensemblehyperion.com/
They are very good actually, but they have nothing to do with Spectralism...
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: nathanb on September 28, 2016, 05:52:21 AM
Quote from: GioCar on September 27, 2016, 11:27:34 PM
I think I've never heard anything by Dumitrescu or Avram. Any works you recommend?

Re The Hyperion Ensemble, the only ensemble I know with that name is the jazzy one playing tango music http://www.ensemblehyperion.com/
They are very good actually, but they have nothing to do with Spectralism...

Any Dumitrescu for solo double bass(es) (or cello will suffice) is a good place to start. Medium III fits the bill. Origo will do. The things he does with bass harmonics are unbelievable. Some guy has mentioned loving his electronic music before. I want to say it was Meteors & Pulsars.

Avram is very similar, with perhaps a slightly different balance of spectral experimentation versus traditional musicality. Some works, off the top of my head, that I've always seemed to immediately connect with include: Zodiaque III, Orbit Of Eternal Grace, and Incantatio.

And obviously everybody loves string quartets, and both Dumitrescu and Avram have a handful of them.

And this is The Hyperion Ensemble in question http://www.spectralmusic.org/Hyperion/Welcome.html (http://www.spectralmusic.org/Hyperion/Welcome.html)
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: San Antone on September 28, 2016, 06:06:42 AM
Quote from: nathanb on September 27, 2016, 07:37:48 PM
I have held my tongue in regards to composers with no threads for quite some time, but come on now.

Iancu Dumitrescu (1944-)
Ana-Maria Avram (1961-)
The Hyperion Ensemble


And all associated efforts.

Discuss.

I have listened to much of their (Dumittrescu and Avram) work but remain unconvinced.  Something of a P.T. Barnum impression.

:(
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: nathanb on September 28, 2016, 04:41:32 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on September 28, 2016, 06:06:42 AM
I have listened to much of their (Dumittrescu and Avram) work but remain unconvinced.  Something of a P.T. Barnum impression.

:(

Do you generally enjoy spectralism?
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: San Antone on September 28, 2016, 04:56:55 PM
Quote from: nathanb on September 28, 2016, 04:41:32 PM
Do you generally enjoy spectralism?

Yes.  I've listened to and like music by Grisey, Murail, Claude Vivier, Peter Eötvös, also composers who have incorporated aspects of spectralism in their work, e.g,  Georg Friedrich Haas and Jonathan Harvey. 
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: nathanb on September 28, 2016, 06:28:28 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on September 28, 2016, 04:56:55 PM
Yes.  I've listened to and like music by Grisey, Murail, Claude Vivier, Peter Eötvös, also composers who have incorporated aspects of spectralism in their work, e.g,  Georg Friedrich Haas and Jonathan Harvey.

Cool. Just checking. I tend to see this "hyper-spectral" movement as sort of comparable to, say, Milton Babbitt with serialism, Cage Variations with chance, etc. Just really pushing the idiom to it's extreme limits with generally less regard for musical elements that don't directly serve "spectralism".
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: GioCar on September 28, 2016, 11:13:20 PM
Quote from: nathanb on September 28, 2016, 05:52:21 AM
Any Dumitrescu for solo double bass(es) (or cello will suffice) is a good place to start. Medium III fits the bill. Origo will do. The things he does with bass harmonics are unbelievable. Some guy has mentioned loving his electronic music before. I want to say it was Meteors & Pulsars.

Avram is very similar, with perhaps a slightly different balance of spectral experimentation versus traditional musicality. Some works, off the top of my head, that I've always seemed to immediately connect with include: Zodiaque III, Orbit Of Eternal Grace, and Incantatio.

And obviously everybody loves string quartets, and both Dumitrescu and Avram have a handful of them.

And this is The Hyperion Ensemble in question http://www.spectralmusic.org/Hyperion/Welcome.html (http://www.spectralmusic.org/Hyperion/Welcome.html)

Nathan, thanks for your recommendations.
Looking for some commercially available recordings to listen to... I saw they have their own label - Edition Modern - having quite a niche distribution.
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: nathanb on September 29, 2016, 06:35:07 AM
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on September 28, 2016, 10:04:45 PM
I've been listening to several works from both composers throughout the day and to be honest, I really like them. Iancu un particular has a really strong, dense, fullness to his style. Some of the sounds I've heard from them both are really mindblowing. I think I like them both more than Haas now!   :D

This chick asked me last night for an example of what I was listening to because I was feeling painfully pretentious trying to describe it at all. So I linked her a youtube performance of Gnosis.

I have so many regrets.
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: San Antone on September 29, 2016, 07:12:12 AM
Quote from: nathanb on September 29, 2016, 06:35:07 AM
This chick asked me last night for an example of what I was listening to because I was feeling painfully pretentious trying to describe it at all. So I linked her a youtube performance of Gnosis.

I have so many regrets.

It was the YouTube clips that turned me off to them.  If I just heard the music with out the arm waving, I might have had a different first impression.

;)
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: nathanb on September 29, 2016, 03:33:23 PM
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on September 29, 2016, 01:44:58 PM
Is this girl romantically involved? Because if she would negatively judge you as a person over that, she isn't worth pursuing

Thankfully, I believe she's spoken for.
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: Mandryka on April 29, 2020, 01:11:21 PM
Quote from: nathanb on September 28, 2016, 05:52:21 AM


And obviously everybody loves string quartets, and both Dumitrescu and Avram have a handful of them.


What string quartets has Dumitrescu written? I can see see stuff for solo strings, but no quartets.

Just listening totally informally, I don't hear the relation really between Dumitrescu and the French spectralists. Generally I'm finding Dumitrescu consistently stimulating while for me, Grisey, Murail etc are much less so. Basically I've decided to get everything I can by him, which isn't much! As long as the purchase is supported by the PayPal buyer guarantee! (Just ordered something from Siberia!)
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: Mandryka on April 29, 2020, 01:27:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/v/76rOkb04nwk

Eureka.
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on April 29, 2020, 02:29:53 PM
I haven't heard of "spectralism" before.  How would you describe it?  I try to keep an open mind.

Best,

PD
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: Mandryka on April 29, 2020, 08:34:15 PM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on April 29, 2020, 02:29:53 PM
I haven't heard of "spectralism" before.  How would you describe it?  I try to keep an open mind.

Best,

PD

There were a whole bunch of composers working in the 70s and 80s who loved the timbres of sounds. In fact, they loved timbres so much, you could say that their music is about exploring sound colours as much as anything else.

Here's an example by an American composer called John Chowning which I like, a piece called Stria. It's really sensual. Just lie back and enjoy the way all the colours change.

https://www.youtube.com/v/988jPjs1gao

Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on April 30, 2020, 05:25:39 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on April 29, 2020, 08:34:15 PM
There were a whole bunch of composers working in the 70s and 80s who loved the timbres of sounds. In fact, they loved timbres so much, you could say that their music is about exploring sound colours as much as anything else.

Here's an example by an American composer called John Chowning which I like, a piece called Stria. It's really sensual. Just lie back and enjoy the way all the colours change.

https://www.youtube.com/v/988jPjs1gao
Thank you for the info and link.  I'll listen to it later on this evening.   :)
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: Mandryka on May 01, 2020, 02:08:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/EIVg2NfSqpA

Three minutes of Dumitrescu's Alternances -- it should be 15, I've just contacted the Bergersen Quartet to see if they can let me have a recording of the whole thing, I don't hold out much hope, and as far as I can see the piece is nowhere else available.
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: Old San Antone on May 01, 2020, 03:13:48 AM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on April 29, 2020, 02:29:53 PM
I haven't heard of "spectralism" before.  How would you describe it?  I try to keep an open mind.

Best,

PD

Here  (https://fdleone.com/2014/01/28/spectral-music/)is an article I wrote about Spectral Music in 2014, in which I discuss the history of the movement and provide some audio clips from a few composers.  You might find it helpful; but it has been a while since I was listening to this kind of music and can't recommend any newer recordings.
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on May 01, 2020, 06:13:43 AM
Quote from: Old San Antone on May 01, 2020, 03:13:48 AM
Here  (https://fdleone.com/2014/01/28/spectral-music/)is an article I wrote about Spectral Music in 2014, in which I discuss the history of the movement and provide some audio clips from a few composers.  You might find it helpful; but it has been a while since I was listening to this kind of music and can't recommend any newer recordings.
Thank you!   :)

PD
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: Mandryka on May 01, 2020, 07:19:13 AM
Quote from: Old San Antone on May 01, 2020, 03:13:48 AM
Here  (https://fdleone.com/2014/01/28/spectral-music/)is an article I wrote about Spectral Music in 2014, in which I discuss the history of the movement and provide some audio clips from a few composers.  You might find it helpful; but it has been a while since I was listening to this kind of music and can't recommend any newer recordings.

The footnotes aren't working, so if I click on footnote 2 I get page not found. I'd quite like to get hold of Dufourt's book, he sounds like my kind of person, a bit of philosophy, a bit of poetry, a bit of music, a lot of bull, but it's unobtainable!
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: Old San Antone on May 01, 2020, 07:30:38 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 01, 2020, 07:19:13 AM
The footnotes aren't working, so if I click on footnote 2 I get page not found. I'd quite like to get hold of Dufourt's book, he sounds like my kind of person, a bit of philosophy, a bit of poetry, a bit of music, a lot of bull, but it's unobtainable!

I can no longer provide live links since I no longer subscribe to the sources cited. But have moved the citations to the main text.  You can Google the bibliographic references and get some idea of the texts and/or if you subscribe to Scribd you can probably find most of the full texts.
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: ritter on May 01, 2020, 07:32:04 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 01, 2020, 07:19:13 AMI'd quite like to get hold of Dufourt's book, he sounds like my kind of person, a bit of philosophy, a bit of poetry, a bit of music, a lot of bull, but it's unobtainable!
Do you mean this (https://www.iberlibro.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=13592588172&searchurl=an%3DHugues%2Bdufourt%26sortby%3D17&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title7) one?  Not cheap, but the other available copy goes for 10 times the price. ::)
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: Mandryka on May 01, 2020, 07:39:17 AM
Quote from: ritter on May 01, 2020, 07:32:04 AM
Do you mean this (https://www.iberlibro.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=13592588172&searchurl=an%3DHugues%2Bdufourt%26sortby%3D17&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title7) one?  Not cheap, but the other available copy goes for 10 times the price. ::)

No, I didn't know about that. I meant La musique spectrale. Une révolution épistémologique (Paris: Éditions Delatour, 2014)

Figure-toi, la musique spectrale est une révolution épistémologique!

Have you read Boulez's Collège de France lectures?  I'm feeling tempted and of course, I'd want them in French. They're even more expensive in French than in English, paradoxically.
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: Mandryka on May 01, 2020, 07:40:43 AM
Quote from: Old San Antone on May 01, 2020, 07:30:38 AM
I can no longer provide live links since I no longer subscribe to the sources cited. But have moved the citations to the main text.  You can Google the bibliographic references and get some idea of the texts and/or if you subscribe to Scribd you can probably find most of the full texts.

Sure, I was wondering if it was from the Dufourt book I'd like to see.
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: ritter on May 01, 2020, 07:57:11 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 01, 2020, 07:39:17 AM

Have you read Boulez's Collège de France lectures, I'm feeling tempted and of course, I'd want them in French. They're even more expensive in French than in English, paradoxically.
I found a copy years ago in a bookstore in Aix-en-Provence, but have only skimmed through the book. Its 700+ pages appear daunting, but in reality these lectures are very approachable (as AFAIK these talks at the College de France are usually aimed at a wide, non-specialised audience).

There's also this short (53') DVD about Boulez's time at the Collège (but, naturally, it does not reproduce the full lectures):

[asin]B002WGB4PA[/asin]
Title: Re: The Hyper-Spectral Haven
Post by: Old San Antone on May 01, 2020, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 01, 2020, 07:40:43 AM
Sure, I was wondering if it was from the Dufourt book I'd like to see.

No.  The three sources I cited were:

Richard Taruskin. "Chapter 10 Millennium's End." The Oxford History of Western Music. Oxford University Press. New York, USA.
Justin Lepany, "Principles and techniques of Spectral music", Cardiff University, School of Physics, Lecture: Sound Synthesis, Course Convenor: Professor Mike Greenhough, Spring Semester 2005.
François Rose, "Introduction to the Pitch Organization of French Spectral Music", Perspectives of New Music, Vol. 34, No. 2 (Summer, 1996), pp. 6-39.