GMG Classical Music Forum

How many of Bach's cantatas do you own?
And how familiar are you with them all? It's pretty easy to get them all in one large box set, but these sets are so large that it would take a very strong dedication to listen them all without getting sidetracked by other music.

Sorry about the large range in the categories (what would someone with 35 pick?), but I didn't want to make too minute categories either. (And I'd pick option 4 if I had 35.)

I would have to combine two answers.   I have them all in multiple renditions (at a minimum, three) but a vast number of them I've only given too few listens to be able to know them in any meaningful way.

I only have a few, but I have listened to the ones I've got.  (Does it count that I've played No. 6 and sung No. 4?  ;D )

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on July 01, 2013, 02:58:37 PM
I would have to combine two answers.   I have them all in multiple renditions (at a minimum, three) but a vast number of them I've only given too few listens to be able to know them in any meaningful way.

This.

I've heard multiple sets, and several individual recordings but only feel like I really know a handful of them.  With each one it is an experience while listening, but few stick in my mind.  It's simply too much music for my brain to grasp.

Pretty hard to cover every choice with this question.  :)

  I have them all and have heard them all.  I believe that I am familiar with a large amount of these fine works.  I would never claim that I know all or even most of them.  Music that takes a lifetime to compose will take a lifetime to get to know well!

  marvin

I have deliberately not bought a complete set for the very reason that I know I would end up with a lot of discs I have not listened to. I have about 110 of them and am consciously growing them slowly. I have a lot in multiple versions. Most recently I have been filing in gaps with the Gardiner Soli discs when I see them at a good price. But even in this fits and starts way there are many I still don't know well, as there are quite a lot I am addicted to. So when I think...Bach, a cantata....i so often go to the specific sources of my addition for a fix, then fall back satiated for a short time, then return to haul out another narcotic performance.

Mike

Quote from: KevinP on July 01, 2013, 01:53:47 PM
How many of Bach's cantatas do you own?

Volumes 1 - 49 + 2 secular cantatas discs of BCJ/Suzuki cycle + half dozen other discs of Bach cantatas. How many is that? Maybe around 180 or 80 % of all.

Quote from: KevinP on July 01, 2013, 01:53:47 PMAnd how familiar are you with them all? It's pretty easy to get them all in one large box set, but these sets are so large that it would take a very strong dedication to listen them all without getting sidetracked by other music.

Not that familiar. Most of them I have listened only once. Some famililar cantatas I have heard many times. Dedication is surely needed. I'm planning on starting the "serious" listening once BCJ/Suzuki cycle is completed and I have them all.

1 + 2. I have them all (most of them in two or more versions), have heard them all (most of them several times), but are familiar (whatever that means) with only a handful.

Quote from: The new erato on July 15, 2013, 12:55:25 AM
1 + 2. I have them all (most of them in two or more versions), have heard them all (most of them several times), but are familiar (whatever that means) with only a handful.

I own all (somewhere between 3 and 7 versions).
So far I have heard about one third of all these CDs.

The only 'completely complete' set I have is Rilling's, if only because it's reasonably priced. But I also have the 'complete incomplete' sets of Richter (26 discs), Werner (20 discs) and Ristenpart/RIAS (9 discs)--that is, these are the complete collection of the ones they recorded but they didn't record them all. I also have this set:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Ldt9DWfnL.jpg)

I just received the secular set and the RIAS today so don't expect any definitive answers if you have any questions (but feel free to ask).

Although aborted, the RIAS was the first attempt to record the entire cycle and started in 1947.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61n5bEf7OdL._SY300_.jpg) (bought the five boxes, not the one big one.)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BzaADIfPL._SX300_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51jlEtE6J%2BL._SY300_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51h4OI5dvEL._SY300__PJautoripBadge,BottomRight,4,-40_OU11__.jpg)

I recently bought the complete cantatas with Rilling. I like the box. Before that I had 5 CDs with Rotzsch and maybe 25 with Leusink. I like the Rotzsch but I don't like the Leusink. I think the counter tenor in the Leusink sounds awfull. The Rilling has very good singers and sounds impressive. I have listened to the first 6 CDs in the box.

I chose the last option as I love these works. It has been said that JSB wrote some of his finest work in his Cantatas. Yes there is a lot of music there to consume here but one way that I have done it a number of times, including this current year, is to listen to the appropriate Cantata on the relevant Liturgical Feast Day. That way you can do it in bite sized chunks and also have relevance.

It took me almost 20 years to collect the BIS/Suzuki recordings of Bach's Church Cantatas. The amount of those cantatas is pretty overhelming and a lot of the times I haven't even been in the mood for this type for music. I was for the most part collecting for future listening. It was always my plan that I start to listen to the cantatas more when I have them all. Now that I am more into classical music again, listening to these cantatas is good escapism from the ugly things happening in the World. So, I started listening to the cantatas in BWV order. I have listened to BWV1-4 today. I want to generate my own "essential cantatas list." Of those four cantatas BWV1 & BWV 4 are "essential" to me, while the other two are not.

Quote from: 71 dB on April 16, 2022, 08:58:04 AM
It took me almost 20 years to collect the BIS/Suzuki recordings of Bach's Church Cantatas. The amount of those cantatas is pretty overhelming and a lot of the times I haven't even been in the mood for this type for music. I was for the most part collecting for future listening. It was always my plan that I start to listen to the cantatas more when I have them all. Now that I am more into classical music again, listening to these cantatas is good escapism from the ugly things happening in the World. So, I started listening to the cantatas in BWV order. I have listened to BWV1-4 today. I want to generate my own "essential cantatas list." Of those four cantatas BWV1 & BWV 4 are "essential" to me, while the other two are not.

That was a very good strategy by you at the time; good foresight.

Today I listened to Cantatas BVW 5-8. Of these BVW 8 gets my "essential" approval mainly because of its great opening choral. Good stuff!  0:)

If I listen to four cantatas every week, this will take me a year!  :P

Quote from: aligreto on April 16, 2022, 10:22:43 AM
That was a very good strategy by you at the time; good foresight.

BIS had just begun their Suzuki cycle in the 90's. I was able to get the volume 1 at low price, because it was special issue with BIS CATALOGUE 1998 with extra sample tracks by other baroque composers. I liked the commitment, so I decided to collect all the volumes...

Quote from: 71 dB on April 17, 2022, 09:59:04 AM

If I listen to four cantatas every day, this will take me a year!  :P

You must mean every week.

Quote from: (: premont :) on April 17, 2022, 10:05:17 AM
You must mean every week.

Yeah, of course...  0:)

I'm actually still not through with listening all of Bach's cantatas, there having been months when I haven't listened even one! Luckily I remember where I am currently.

Quote from: 71 dB on April 17, 2022, 09:59:04 AM
Today I listened to Cantatas BVW 5-8. Of these BVW 8 gets my "essential" approval mainly because of its great opening choral. Good stuff!  0:)

If I listen to four cantatas every week, this will take me a year!  :P

BIS had just begun their Suzuki cycle in the 90's. I was able to get the volume 1 at low price, because it was special issue with BIS CATALOGUE 1998 with extra sample tracks by other baroque composers. I liked the commitment, so I decided to collect all the volumes...

I came a little late to the Suzuki cycle.
I had one or two individual discs but I eventually opted for all of the box sets in this series:


(https://www.bach-cantatas.com/Pic-Rec-BIG/Suzuki-B02a%5BBIS-10CD%5D.jpg)


To be honest, they would not be my first choice in the Bach Cantatas but, at the same time, I am glad that I own this cycle.

Quote from: aligreto on April 17, 2022, 02:54:33 PM
To be honest, they would not be my first choice in the Bach Cantatas but, at the same time, I am glad that I own this cycle.

What is your first choice?

I was so disappointed by the first? volume (one they gave away rather cheaply like a teaser around 2000) of the Suzuki (incl. BWV 4) that I ignored the series for years. I later got one or two later volumes that were much better, really excellent but it's not music I listen to that frequently, so I have not collected all the cantatas, even less the Suzuki.

Quote from: Jo498 on April 18, 2022, 12:09:45 AM
I was so disappointed by the first? volume (one they gave away rather cheaply like a teaser around 2000) of the Suzuki (incl. BWV 4) that I ignored the series for years. I later got one or two later volumes that were much better, really excellent but it's not music I listen to that frequently, so I have not collected all the cantatas, even less the Suzuki.

I was impressed by it (one of the reasons why I decided to start collecting) and I still find the Suzuki cycle awesome. I better be happy with those 55 discs, because I have invested a lot of money on them.

Quote from: DavidW on April 17, 2022, 04:21:45 PM
What is your first choice?

My first choice is unhesitatingly Gardiner because of the sense of pure joy that he brings to the music. I also think that his Monteverdi Choir is consistently excellent.
Herreweghe [incomplete on Harmonia Mundi] is a close second because of his sense of the devotional.

Quote from: aligreto on April 18, 2022, 01:20:19 AM
My first choice is unhesitatingly Gardiner because of the sense of pure joy that he brings to the music. I also think that his Monteverdi Choir is consistently excellent.
Herreweghe [incomplete on Harmonia Mundi] is a close second because of his sense of the devotional.

Nice choices!  My favorite incomplete sets are Kuijken and Herreweghe.

My favorite complete sets are Koopman, Gardiner and Suzuki with Koopman being my favorite.  I think the three compliment each other well.  Gardiner has that bubbly joy, Koopman has that jazzy spontaneity and Suzuki has a meditative quality.

Quote from: DavidW on April 18, 2022, 05:33:29 AM
Nice choices!  My favorite incomplete sets are Kuijken and Herreweghe.

My favorite complete sets are Koopman, Gardiner and Suzuki with Koopman being my favorite.  I think the three compliment each other well.  Gardiner has that bubbly joy, Koopman has that jazzy spontaneity and Suzuki has a meditative quality.

Yes, it is always down to interpretation and presentation, obviously, and how we perceive the music ourselves.
Interesting comment on Koopman; I have not seen that interpretation before.
Continued enjoyment in your listening.  :)

Today: BVW 9, 10, 12 & 13. Of these I call BVW 10 and especially 12 essential. The latter is actually one of the best cantatas by Bach, I believe.  0:)

In general I seem to like Bach's early (Mühlhausen/Weimar) cantatas for their Buxtehude/Bruhns-likeness. In the later cantatas recitatives are often musically boring, but in these early cantatas recitatives are non-existing or musically interesting.

Today: BVW 14, 16, 17 & 18 (Suzuki cycle all the time)

Of these only BVW 18 feels essential for it's experimental nature. 

Enjoy the listening journey, Poju.

I am only a few months into my discovery of his cantatas, amongst his other works. It's taken me 15+years to "get" this composer. It is now an absolute joy to listen him every week. Happy listening !

(In answer to the old poll: All of them, a handful of versions of each. It has been such a "conversion" 0:)  :laugh: )

Quote from: Papy Oli on April 19, 2022, 08:56:28 AM
Enjoy the listening journey, Poju.

I am only a few months into my discovery of his cantatas, amongst his other works. It's taken me 15+years to "get" this composer. It is now an absolute joy to listen him every week. Happy listening !

(In answer to the old poll: All of them, a handful of versions of each. It has been such a "conversion" 0:)  :laugh: )

Thanks! It is certainly interesting to get to know these works better.

For me "getting" the music of Bach was relatively easy, because I love counterpoint in music and Bach was "quite" good at that ;D I'm glad you have have discovered the joy of Bach!

BWV 19, 20, 21 & 22

Suzuki did BVW 21 twice, "Hamburg 1720" and "Leipzig 1723" versions. I listened here the earlier version. The comparison of different versions of BVW 21 is beyond my plan to go through Bach's church cantatas. Out of these four cantatas I really like BVW 21 and BVW 22, but also BVW 20 has its charm. Hence, all of these three cantatas earn my "essential" approval at this point.

I am not a fan of recitatives in general (often musically really boring), but BWV 22 has got the type of "powerful" recitative I love.  0:)

BWV 23, 24, 25 & 26

Today I listened to these four cantatas, each ~15 minutes long. The first one, BVW 23 feels like an essential work, but the other 3 fail to impress compared to Bach's better cantatas.

I have collected about 2/3 of the Teldec Harnoncourt/Leonhardt discs in their old cd incarnation (with notes, texts and translations) and have a dozen individual discs from other sources. I don't intend to collect the whole lot for completeness' sake, but if one of the missing Teldec sets comes up cheap, I'll go for it.

As whole cantatas go, I find there's maybe a dozen that are real masterpieces. In all the others there are some telling moments that make the occasional hearing worthwhile. My favourite is no 60, the one Berg quotes in his violin concerto.

BWV 27, 28, 29 & 30

I have to say BWV 29 wiped the floor with the other three. Bach recycles his other works here, but who cares if the result is this good?

Quote from: André on April 21, 2022, 11:01:43 AM
I have collected about 2/3 of the Teldec Harnoncourt/Leonhardt discs in their old cd incarnation (with notes, texts and translations) and have a dozen individual discs from other sources. I don't intend to collect the whole lot for completeness' sake, but if one of the missing Teldec sets comes up cheap, I'll go for it.

As whole cantatas go, I find there's maybe a dozen that are real masterpieces. In all the others there are some telling moments that make the occasional hearing worthwhile. My favourite is no 60, the one Berg quotes in his violin concerto.

Once I have gone through all the cantatas and crafted a list of the best ones, I may start to look for alternative recordings for some select cantatas. I wonder what those Teldec discs for example have to offer? The most recordings I have for these cantatas is for BWV 82:

Bach Collegium Japan / Masaaki Suzuki / BIS
Gli Angeli Geneve / Stephan MacLeod / Sony
Northern Chamber Orchestra / Nicholas Ward / Naxos
Bach-Collegium Stuttgart / Helmut Rilling / Hänssler Classic

I also have three performances of secular cantatas BWV 208 & 211 on BIS (Suzuki), Brilliant Classics (Schreier) and Naxos (Antál)

Quote from: 71 dB on April 22, 2022, 12:00:27 PM
Once I have gone through all the cantatas and crafted a list of the best ones, I may start to look for alternative recordings for some select cantatas. I wonder what those Teldec discs for example have to offer? The most recordings I have for these cantatas is for BWV 82:

Since that is my favorite cantata it is nice to see the love.  Here are some of my fav recordings:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41LJQBSt+AL.jpg)(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41T8WBEJM7L.jpg)(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51TWXW2K94L._SX355_.jpg)

Quote from: André on April 21, 2022, 11:01:43 AM
I have collected about 2/3 of the Teldec Harnoncourt/Leonhardt discs in their old cd incarnation (with notes, texts and translations) and have a dozen individual discs from other sources. I don't intend to collect the whole lot for completeness' sake, but if one of the missing Teldec sets comes up cheap, I'll go for it.

I collected them all, and I'm planning to go through the entire lot following the Church calendar. Must have been a decade or so ago that I did that for the last time! :)

BWV 31, 32, 33 & 34

The "winner" of today's cantatas is BWV 32, althou 33 & 34 aren't bad either while 31 felt the weakest of the four.

The cover art for Suzuki vol. 48 wrongly list BWV 48 as one of the cantatas on that disc instead of BWV 34.
Ironically the "name" of the volume is based on BWV 34 "O ewinges Feuer".

BWV 35, 36, 37 & 38

None of these impressed me.  :P

BWV 39, 40, 41 & 42

The first two did not impress much, but BWV 41 felt essential while BWV 42 blew me away! Great sinfonia and the alto aria is amazing!  0:)

I appreciate reading your impressions of the cantatas as you continue your pilgrimage. 0:)

Quote from: DavidW on April 25, 2022, 09:29:46 AM
I appreciate reading your impressions of the cantatas as you continue your pilgrimage. 0:)

My written impressions haven't been that long and thorough, but I'm glad you like reading them.  0:)

Quote from: 71 dB on April 25, 2022, 01:59:32 PM
My written impressions haven't been that long and thorough, but I'm glad you like reading them.  0:)

If I want to just ramble along with some cantatas I might use your essentials to guide me.

Quote from: DavidW on April 25, 2022, 02:36:03 PM
If I want to just ramble along with some cantatas I might use your essentials to guide me.

Cool, but be aware this is the "first round" of essentials. The list will be quite long, perhaps consisting of 50-100 cantatas.
If you want a carefully curated list of top 20 cantatas from me, I am afraid I am not ready to do that for a long time.  :-X

BWV 43, 44, 45 & 46

The choral of BWV 43 has an interesting "celtic" feel to it, but it isn't even by Bach, but by Christoph Peter (1626-1689).

BWV 47, 48, 49, 50 & 51

Five works this time, because BWV 50 is just a 3-4 minutes long fragment. Clearly, BWV 51 is the "essential" one out of these. Great solo cantata for soprano and an old favorite of mine.  0:)

BWV 52, 54, 55 & 56

Among these four solo cantatas the shortest, BVW 54, is my favorite. BVW 56 is also nice enough to be called essential.

Quote from: André on April 21, 2022, 11:01:43 AM
My favourite is no 60, the one Berg quotes in his violin concerto.

Today's menu was: BWV 57, 58, 59 & 60

BWV 57 is what it is. BWV 58 is "essential" to me, while the similar "Soprano-Bass duetto cantata" BWV 59 is less successful. As for the BWV 60 goes, it is definitely "essential." The arias, especially the first one are strong.

BWV 61, 62, 63 & 64

BWV 61 has always been one of my favourites (The Bass recitative is so magical!). Also BVW 63 is a strong cantata. The even-numbered cantatas are less impressive in comparison.

Can't wait for BWV 65! That's so far my favorite Bach cantata.

Quote from: Ganondorf on April 30, 2022, 02:09:50 PM
Can't wait for BWV 65! That's so far my favorite Bach cantata.

BWV 65, 66, 67 & 68

Unfortunately none of these cantatas impressed me to the point of making them feel "essential."  :P

BWV 69, 69a, 70 & 71

BWV 71 is my favorite of these... 

BWV 72, 73 & 74

I was able to listen to only 3 cantatas today because I had to go to the post office for the BIS package. BWV 73 is my favorite of these...

Quote from: 71 dB on May 03, 2022, 10:39:56 AM
BWV 72, 73 & 74

I was able to listen to only 3 cantatas today because I had to go to the post office for the BIS package. BWV 73 is my favorite of these...

Awesome!  Glad your package finally came in!

Quote from: DavidW on May 03, 2022, 10:58:26 AM
Awesome!  Glad your package finally came in!

Thanks!  0:)

Listened to no 104 a couple of times this week. A superb work, containing one of his most beautiful arias (for bass).

Quote from: André on May 03, 2022, 02:18:02 PM
Listened to no 104 a couple of times this week. A superb work, containing one of his most beautiful arias (for bass).

I look forward to hearing BWV 104 in the near future (before June I hope). Today I listened to BVW 75, which I didn't have time to listen to yesterday. It is a good cantata. Now I will slow down with the Bach cantatas, because I have the BIS discs (Bruhns, Bartók, Silvestrov & R. Strauss) to listen to...  0:)

BWV 76 & 77

Neither of these two feel an essential cantata among the works of J. S. Bach.

BWV 78, 79, 80 & 81

Trying to get back to the 4 cantatas per day schedule. This was a nice bunch. BWV 78 and BWV 81 have an operatic/secular feel, while BWV 79 sounds interesting and BWV 80 is one of my all time favorites.

$:)

Quote from: 71 dB on May 06, 2022, 09:19:10 AM
BWV 78, 79, 80 & 81

Trying to get back to the 4 cantatas per day schedule. This was a nice bunch. BWV 78 and BWV 81 have an operatic/secular feel, while BWV 79 sounds interesting and BWV 80 is one of my all time favorites.

$:)

Keep 'em coming, Poju !  :)

Quote from: André on May 06, 2022, 11:43:41 AM
Keep 'em coming, Poju !  :)

BWV 82, 83, 84 & 85

BWV 82 is of course the best of these four. I listened to the soprano version in E minor, because the bass version in C minor is so common. I also liked BWV 85 a lot, while BWV 83 and BWV 84 were less impressive in between.   

Talking about BWV 82, I thought I was going crazy seeing BIS call it "Ich habe genung" because I remembered it being "Ich habe genug." Apparently both versions are correct and "genung" is just older form of the word.

I was wondering what you would think since bwv 82 is my favorite cantata.

In Lutheran practice the language of old chorals is slightly amended/adopted at some intervals because 250-500 years are not a short time in the development of language (that only began becoming standardized at Luther's time, mainly through his bible translation and other writings). I haven't checked but I think that in the 50s or 60s they might often have slightly modernized Bach texts as well, thus "genug" (which is modern standard, "genung" is archaic or dialectal).

BWV 86, 87, 88 & 89

Out of these four cantatas I prefer BWV 87 and declare as "essential."

--------------------

The apartment building where my rental apartment is will move to geothermal energy. On week 20 they will start drilling the heating wells and that will cause a lot of noise. They will work Monday to Friday from 7 am to 10 pm and on Saturdays from 9 am to 6 pm. The drilling of the wells will take 3-4 weeks. This means that it may be challenging to listen to music* and my mental energy will go to retain my sanity, because as someone with aspergers I am sensitive to noise. After the wells are drilled, there will be further construction of the new geothermal energy system and the whole thing will last for 5 months, but I suppose the drilling phase will be the worst. All of this is likely to slow down my progress with the cantatas.

:-\

* Well, maybe very loud electronic music such as The Prodigy will mask the drilling noises, but dynamic classical music is problematic.

BWV 90, 91, 92 & 93

None of these felt essential. Moving on...  :P

I was listening to some Bach cantatas this morning.  I've been taking the Gardiner box but only picking out the top two tiers on classical.net's rankings.  This landed me on bwv 81, which for the life of me I couldn't recall.  But I really loved it!  I thought that the work was consistently engaging and especially loved what the violins were doing.  I think I'll put that cantata on repeat.

BWV 94, 95, 96 & 97

BWV 94 isn't much to my liking, but BWV 95-97 are, especially the last one!  0:)

BWV 98, 99, 100 & 101

These cantatas felt pretty uninteresting, except for the opening chorus of BWV 101, which sounds really weird and "out of tune."

BWV 102 & 103

Only two cantatas today because of time issues. BWV 102 a good cantata. I love the use of Flauto piccolo in BWV 103!

Now to the sauna!  $:)

BWV 104, 105, 106 & 107

Quote from: André on May 03, 2022, 02:18:02 PM
Listened to no 104 a couple of times this week. A superb work, containing one of his most beautiful arias (for bass).

The bass aria of BWV 104 is indeed beautiful. I also enjoy BWV 106 a lot. Great early cantata!  0:)

BWV 108, 109, 110 & 111

This time around BWV 109 was by far the most impressive cantata and definitely "essential."  0:)

BWV 112, 113, 114 & 115

BWV 115 wins this contest. Very beautiful serene cantata!

Next week starts the drilling of geothermal wells causing lots of noise making listening to music challenging. I may even take a break in listening to these cantatas.

These drillings of wells is the last thing I want in the middle of all the Ukraine/Russia/NATO hassle, but it is what it is. Green energy, climate change and all that jazz. Life is constant struggle these days...  :P

BWV 116, 117, 119 & 120

None of these felt "essential."

No drilling on Monday so I was able to listen to four more cantatas.

BWV 120a, 121 & 122

No drilling on Tuesday either... ...BWV 120a is somehow massive.

I borrowed Rilling doing BWV 29, 50 and 140 so I can compare to Suzuki.

BWV 123, 124 & 125

Still no drilling on Wednesday... ...they can't start before the have finished the previous job.

These tree cantatas are nicely on the same dics in order so listening to them was convinient. I didn't continue to BWV 126, because it is on the same disc with BWV 127.

BWV 125 is the best of these. I really like the alto aria.  0:)

BWV 126, 127, 128 & 129

Thursday and Friday were too noisy to listen to these cantatas because of the drilling, but today Saturday they ended working before 4 pm so I and able to continue the listening. Of these four cantatas, BWV 127 and 129 are the better ones, "essential."

They have been drilling the two closest wells to my appartment (see attachment pic). Soon they should move further away making the noise less annoying for me, but we'll see how much I can do listening.

BWV 130, 131, 132 & 133

BWV 131 is my favorite of these. Tomorrow on Monday the drilling will continue and it is likely I won't be listening to these cantatas.

I think you need iems or closed headphones!

Quote from: DavidW on May 22, 2022, 04:13:53 PM
I think you need iems or closed headphones!

I am listening with speakers, because volumes 28-55 are SACDs offering 5.0 sound and for volumes 1-27 I use DTS Neo 6:Music.

It doesn't make sense to buy audio gear because there's a few weeks of drilling.

BWV 134, 135, 136 & 137

I had a chance to listen to these, because they finished one drilling job and are moving to the next point. I have been listening to electronic music (neurofunk etc.) to mask the drilling noise and now these cantatas felt "lame" in comparison, but then again these aren't Bach's best... ...at least there's progress with these cantatas. One more drilling point on this side of the building and then they go to the other side and the drilling noises should be barely audible.  $:)

BWV 138, 139, 140 & 143

Thanks to Ascension Day the drilling work has been paused for today and it has been very quiet. So, no problem listening to cantatas.  $:)

BWV 140 is one of my favorites. Also BWV 143 is very nice.

BWV 144, 145, 146 & 147

The drilling workers seem to have taken a "long weekend" and didn't work today either. So quiet!  0:)

BWV 144 & 145 are short and pretty unimpressive works. The other two however are great. BWV 147 is one of the most popular ones and the very long BWV 146 blew my mind too. In fact, I think I prefer BWV 146 to 147!  ???

BWV 148, 149, 150 & 151

To my surprise they did some drilling work today Saturday, but they finished before my Bach cantatas listening time slot, so no problems.

I like BWV 150 & 151 the most of these four. BWV 150 is a nice early cantata with that middle-baroque Buxtehude/Bruhns feel and BWV 151 opens with the most beautiful long soprano aria.  0:)

BWV 152, 153, 154 & 155

These are rather small scale cantatas. BWV 155 is my favorite of these.

BWV 156, 157, 158 & 159

BWV 156 is my favorite of these, but BWV 159 has an impressive bass aria.

Keep going, Pujo !  ;)

Quote from: André on May 30, 2022, 10:01:08 AM
Keep going, Pujo !  ;)

They are driling on the other side of the building now and I hardly hear any noises. I have about 40 church cantatas to go. At this pace that's 10 days. I should be done within 2 weeks.

BWV 161, 162, 163 & 164

Can't say any of these blew me away. Moving on...  :P

Quote from: Yabetz on May 30, 2022, 01:02:42 PM
Have all of them, including some scores; I'm making my way to listening to every one. I'd say there may be about 10-15% yet that I haven't listened to carefully.

Cool!  0:)

BWV 165, 166, 167 & 168

More "lesser" cantatas by J. S. Bach. The drilling doesn't disturb me at all now that they are working on the other side of the building.

BWV 169, 170, 171 & 172

BWV 170 is the strongest of these imho. BWV 169 is good too while BWV 172 felt the weakest.

Looks like I have 26 more cantatas to go. That's one week at this pace.  $:)

BWV 173, 174, 175 & 176

BWV 174 seem the strongest cantata of these four. I feel after the great BWV 146 & 147, these cantatas have been a bit underwhelming (BWV 170 is great at least), but I'm sure there still gems ahead, at least the popular BWV 199.

BWV 177, 178, 179 & 180

Equally good cantatas. Difficult to call the winner.

BWV 181, 182, 183 & 184

Forgot to edit. These cantatas felt uninteresting to my ears. I have listened to so many in a span of a few weeks. I have also realized that Suzuki's cycle isn't really to my taste. It has got very good sound, but it is so dull! I have sampled Rilling, whose cantatas feel absolutely amazing despite of much worse sound. So much energy and presence! The difference is shocking, unbelievable!  ???

I am planning buying the Rilling cycle!  8)

I think I am a fan of non-hip Bach. That's my new theory.

BWV 185, 186, 187 & 188

BWV 187 and 188 are nice cantatas!  0:)

Just 10 church cantatas left! This has been quite a marathon!  :o

Quote from: 71 dB on June 05, 2022, 08:28:29 AM
BWV 181, 182, 183 & 184

Forgot to edit. These cantatas felt uninteresting to my ears. I have listened to so many in a span of a few weeks. I have also realized that Suzuki's cycle isn't really to my taste. It has got very good sound, but it is so dull! I have sampled Rilling, whose cantatas feel absolutely amazing despite of much worse sound. So much energy and presence! The difference is shocking, unbelievable!  ???

I am planning buying the Rilling cycle!  8)

I think I am a fan of non-hip Bach. That's my new theory.

There are plenty of people that don't like Suzuki, might not be a hip thing just a performer thing.  Try Gardiner or Koopman if you have the chance.

Quote from: DavidW on June 06, 2022, 10:41:46 AM
There are plenty of people that don't like Suzuki,

RvB haven't noticed this, because BIS has been doing tons of projects with Suzuki. Maybe Suzuki sells well enough despite of many not liking him?

Quote from: DavidW on June 06, 2022, 10:41:46 AMmight not be a hip thing just a performer thing.

Or both? I like the edgy dry acoustics of Rilling which makes up and then some for the overall worse sound quality. Compared to Rilling, Suzuki on BIS sounds ridiculously reverberant.

Quote from: DavidW on June 06, 2022, 10:41:46 AMTry Gardiner or Koopman if you have the chance.

I have Koopman's Buxtehude Cantatas, but unfortunately I don't like it much so I don't have high hopes for his Bach.

The problem is the cost. Collecting Gardiner can't be cheap. The Rilling box is very cheap and I really like it so I go that route. Of course, it is possible to collect many recordings of a few key cantatas...

BWV 190, 191, 192 & 194

BWV 190 has got a nice tenor bass duetto aria.

BWV 195, 196, 197 & 197a

The Chorus "Wir kommen, deine Heiligkeit..." of BWV 195 is awesome! I love the epic feel the ascending repeating melody line creates. I think this is one of the best Choruses in Bach's cantatas. The early BWV 196 is also to my taste as are pretty much all the early ones. BWV 197 has got a very nice alto aria. BWV 197a was the least impressive of these four works. It is just a fragment anyway...

Two cantatas left! I have the Peter Schreier cycle of secular cantatas on Brilliant Classics, so listening to them next is one option...

They have been drilling the last geothermal well today. I hope they are done by tomorrow. The construction work of the geothermal system will continue, but it is hard to predict how much noise it will cause and when.

BWV 199 & 200 (THE END)

BWV 199 is a well-known cantata. Suzuki's take on it isn't perhaps the most exciting. BWV 200 is only a 4 minutes long separate alto aria, but a very nice one!

So, here we are, done with the Suzuki cycle of the church cantatas. They drilled today, an extra geothermal well it seems, but overall I have been able to listen to these cantatas except for maybe 2 days.

Maybe it is time to listen to something else than Bach while waiting the Rilling set to arrive. I still have the Bartók and R. Strauss BIS discs to check out...  :P

Thanks Poju !

Congratulations on completing the cycle!  And thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Quote from: André on June 13, 2022, 04:22:08 PM
Thanks Poju !

Quote from: DavidW on June 13, 2022, 04:58:57 PM
Congratulations on completing the cycle!  And thanks for sharing your thoughts.

You're welcome! I needed something to take my mind off certain things...  0:)

I received the Rilling boxser last Tuesday. I have been enjoying it, but the otherwise nice boxset has one serious brainfart to it:

The paper "envelopes" the CDs are in are GLUED shut!  :o I have to rip them open like I was opening letters from someone and there is all that glue ready to stick on the surface of the CDs + the paper envelopes suffer from this opening. So stupid and unnecessary! Who IMBECIL came up with this idea?  :P

Yeah I hate that (glued paper sleeves).  I had a Bach organ set like that.  Very annoying.

Here is the offender!
(https://img.youtube.com/vi/WnDps65zK0w/sddefault.jpg)

Quote from: DavidW on June 24, 2022, 07:16:28 AM
Yeah I hate that (glued paper sleeves).  I had a Bach organ set like that.  Very annoying.

Here is the offender!
(https://img.youtube.com/vi/WnDps65zK0w/sddefault.jpg)

How can they be that moronic?  :( Isn't it more expensive to glue them? This is my first "glued" box set and I hope it is also the last...

At this point I have only started listening to the Rilling box, but I think I may even prever Suzuki in the early cantatas to Rilling!  :o

Not saying Rilling is bad with the early cantatas, but I think Suzuki is much better with the early cantatas than with the later ones. I am not decided with this and I need to listen to Rilling much more to be sure, but this is how I feel. With the later cantatas I seem to prefer Rilling with a huge margin.

This may explain why I started collecting the Suzuki set over 20 years ago. The first releases pleased me a lot and I never realized how the later releases weren't to my liking as much. Only when I started listening to the cantatas systematically couple of months ago, I started to notice that something is wrong. Hearing Rilling as an alternative made me understand, that something REALLY is wrong. Suzuki just is too "spiritual" and calm for me in the later (1723 onwards) cantatas and the prominent reverberation and HIP mentality of the recordings doesn't help.

Rilling's modern non-HIP style might be too modern for the early cantatas influence by middle-baroque style.

JPC sells the 60-disc Harnoncourt/Leonhardt set of the sacred cantatas for 89€ (75 €outside of the EU). I have about 60% of it on double cd cases. The box set is space-saving and has 2 booklets (notes and work presentation), but no texts/translations (can be found online, I guess).

I ordered it. It will cost me a lot less than buying the missing discs, which are hard to track down anyway.

(https://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0825646994373)

Leusink eat your heart out!  A new, better played bargain box is here!  I remember when I paid much more for that set.  Though of course streaming exists now.

Quote from: 71 dB on June 24, 2022, 07:09:41 AM
I received the Rilling boxser last Tuesday. I have been enjoying it, but the otherwise nice boxset has one serious brainfart to it:

The paper "envelopes" the CDs are in are GLUED shut!  :o I have to rip them open like I was opening letters from someone and there is all that glue ready to stick on the surface of the CDs + the paper envelopes suffer from this opening. So stupid and unnecessary! Who IMBECIL came up with this idea?  :P

Wow, I have that Rilling set and yep the CDs are in white envelopes, but not sealed. They just have an unsealed flap. Still it was only about $49 so I can't complain. I love Rilling's interpretations but sometimes as in BWV 140 (opening chorus waaaaaay too fast imo) I find things to nitpick. Another Rilling bargain set to get is the Bach Great Sacred Choral Works set of 10 CDs (I think I paid $15 for it on Amazon). His reading of the Magnificat (in D major but with the "Christmas interpolations") is one of my favorites.

Quote from: DizzyD on July 03, 2022, 04:20:03 PM
Wow, I have that Rilling set and yep the CDs are in white envelopes, but not sealed. They just have an unsealed flap. Still it was only about $49 so I can't complain. I love Rilling's interpretations but sometimes as in BWV 140 (opening chorus waaaaaay too fast imo) I find things to nitpick. Another Rilling bargain set to get is the Bach Great Sacred Choral Works set of 10 CDs (I think I paid $15 for it on Amazon). His reading of the Magnificat (in D major but with the "Christmas interpolations") is one of my favorites.

That was the same for me (the Rilling set), they must have changed a perfectly good solution in a reissue.  I agree his Magnificat is superb!  I think I had it on a separate cd.

Rilling's BWV 20 is very impressive!  :o Love it! Suzuki is good, but Rilling takes it and makes it epic!   8)

Rilling isn't as good with BWV 21. Suzuki is better, because it is an early Weimar cantata. Rilling sounds "off" with the cantatas before Leipzig, but the cantatas from 1723 onwards sound exactly as I want!  :)

Quote from: 71 dB on July 04, 2022, 12:26:28 AM
Rilling's BWV 20 is very impressive!  :o Love it! Suzuki is good, but Rilling takes it and makes it epic!   8)

Rilling isn't as good with BWV 21. Suzuki is better, because it is an early Weimar cantata. Rilling sounds "off" with the cantatas before Leipzig, but the cantatas from 1723 onwards sound exactly as I want!  :)

I would disagree a little re: Rilling and BWV 21. I think in the Rilling interpretation the gradual modulation from despondency to joy in the work is much more obvious, although of course this is just my subjective impression. I love the treatment of the final chorus in the Rilling.

Quote from: DizzyD on July 04, 2022, 07:12:49 AM
I would disagree a little re: Rilling and BWV 21. I think in the Rilling interpretation the gradual modulation from despondency to joy in the work is much more obvious, although of course this is just my subjective impression. I love the treatment of the final chorus in the Rilling.

These are my initial impressions. I am a total Rilling newbie. First listen of BWV 21 did not blow me away the way BWV 20 did, gradual modulation from despondency to joy or not (whatever that means...)

With Suzuki it is the other way around: BWV 21 > BWV 20

Quote from: 71 dB on July 04, 2022, 10:01:04 AM
These are my initial impressions. I am a total Rilling newbie. First listen of BWV 21 did not blow me away the way BWV 20 did, gradual modulation from despondency to joy or not (whatever that means...)

With Suzuki it is the other way around: BWV 21 > BWV 20

De gustibus etc etc. "Modulation from despondency to joy" refers to the movement of BWV 21 as a whole. What the cantata is "about". If you don't know the site already, I'd suggest the late Julian Mincham's site jsbachcantatas.com. Not as an unassailable authority but as food for thought.

Quote from: 71 dB on June 24, 2022, 07:23:02 AM
How can they be that moronic?  :( Isn't it more expensive to glue them? This is my first "glued" box set and I hope it is also the last...

I have met this in fortunately only two boxes:
1) Hänssler release of Tirimo's Beethoven Klavierwerke
2) Pourpre release (licenced fro MDG) of Bach concertos and violin/harpsichord sonatas by Musica Alta Ripa

Quote from: DizzyD on July 04, 2022, 10:59:18 AM
De gustibus etc etc. "Modulation from despondency to joy" refers to the movement of BWV 21 as a whole. What the cantata is "about". If you don't know the site already, I'd suggest the late Julian Mincham's site jsbachcantatas.com. Not as an unassailable authority but as food for thought.

I am not at that level in my expertise of the cantatas. I am not analysing what the cantatas are "about." I assume them to be "about" how great the God is. What else could church cantatas of early 18th century be about? As an atheist I just "ignore" the meaning and message and listen to the music as if it was instrumental music.

Quote from: 71 dB on July 04, 2022, 01:40:25 PM
I am not at that level in my expertise of the cantatas. I am not analysing what the cantatas are "about." I assume them to be "about" how great the God is. What else could church cantatas of early 18th century be about? As an atheist I just "ignore" the meaning and message and listen to the music as if it was instrumental music.

*backs out quietly*

I think Rilling is a bit too fast (3:21) in the opening Sinfonia of BWV 29. Not a big deal and the rest of the cantata has good tempi.

Now listening to Rilling's BWV 35-7 and he is much more interesting in these than Suzuki who makes these just dull.

I received my Harnoncourt/Leonhardt box this week. I can now stop purchasing individual sets of that series as well as any (or most) individual discs.

Quote from: 71 dB on May 08, 2022, 09:03:54 AMThe apartment building where my rental apartment is will move to geothermal energy. On week 20 they will start drilling the heating wells and that will cause a lot of noise. They will work Monday to Friday from 7 am to 10 pm and on Saturdays from 9 am to 6 pm. The drilling of the wells will take 3-4 weeks.

Interesting. Do you know how deep the wells will be?

Quote from: Spotted Horses on July 17, 2022, 09:43:14 PM
Interesting. Do you know how deep the wells will be?

I have even done energy calculations concerning geothermic heating at work. Typically these wells are 200 meters (600 ft) deep. After 200 meters the pressure becomes so high that drilling it difficult and thats the reason why these wells aren't much deeper than 200 meters and often even less.

They drilled the wells in June. It has been quiet for weeks now.  $:)

I only have a few. But they never cease to amaze me. This is so beautiful...

https://youtu.be/nJkHccMCyDs

https://youtu.be/tZLgXvbg3kc
Arleen Auger.

I'm at disc #27 of the Rilling cycle. The opening basso aria of BWV 86 is really impressive!  0:) Rilling spends 3 minutes 12 seconds on it while Suzuki does it in just 2 minutes, 18 seconds.

I am in the secular cantatas of the Rilling set (CD 64 with BWV 206, 207a and 207). Rilling is perhaps too "epic" with these and makes these sound like operas or oratorios rather than cantatas. I need to figure out who does Bach's secular cantatas closest to my taste. Rilling is also weaker in my opinion with the early (pre 1723) church cantatas.

Suzuki on the other hand is good with the early Buxtehude/Bruhns-inspired church cantatas, but his serene style stops working well with the more modern Kuhnau-inspired Leipzig cantatas when more energy needs to be injected into the performance. I might even prefer Suzuki to Rilling with the secular cantatas, but I only have the first 2 volumes of Suzuki. I also think the few (5?) secular cantatas Naxos released in the 90's are to my liking, but I need to revisit those CDs.

Quote from: 71 dB on September 03, 2022, 06:42:31 AM
I am in the secular cantatas of the Rilling set (CD 64 with BWV 206, 207a and 207). Rilling is perhaps too "epic" with these and makes these sound like operas or oratorios rather than cantatas. I need to figure out who does Bach's secular cantatas closest to my taste. Rilling is also weaker in my opinion with the early (pre 1723) church cantatas.

Suzuki on the other hand is good with the early Buxtehude/Bruhns-inspired church cantatas, but his serene style stops working well with the more modern Kuhnau-inspired Leipzig cantatas when more energy needs to be injected into the performance. I might even prefer Suzuki to Rilling with the secular cantatas, but I only have the first 2 volumes of Suzuki. I also think the few (5?) secular cantatas Naxos released in the 90's are to my liking, but I need to revisit those CDs.

I listened to CD 66 with the Wedding Cantata BWV 210 and Coffee Cantata BWV 211 of the Rilling box and liked then, so Rilling is not that bad at all Secular Cantatas. Looks like the "lesser" secular cantatas have operatic tendency and this non-Hip approach make that tendency rise up.