GMG Classical Music Forum

In a previous poll (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,19399.msg566459.html#msg566459) conducted 2 years ago, George and John tied with 8 votes, Paul had 7, and Ringo had 4. But there were no banana, don't know, dislike, or Fifth Beatle options, so let's try again!



By the way, to make this more fun, try explaining your vote a little.  :)

I don't have a real preference among them.  Do have a slight dislike for John, get bored by Paul,  but I like George and Ringo equally--but the level of interest in the individual members is not enough to say one gets my attention more than the others.  Do not, in fact, have a single Beatles album, although that may get remedied eventually.

I came late to the Beatles myself, Jeffrey, though not as late as you will be. My parents were so thoroughly burned out by the Beatles as kids that they never bought a single CD, so my introduction to their actual recordings, rather than to covers or to them as a cultural concept, came at age 16. I was dating a girl for the first time and she made me a mix tape, and I hated a lot of the songs on it to be honest. But then there came a song so amazing I turned to her (we were in her car) and said "who is this?!?!" It was "Across the Universe." And somehow I didn't hear another Beatles song until college.

The songs associated with Ringo (Yellow Submarine, Octopus's Garden) are the ones we did singalongs for as kids, but I don't have a big sentimental attachment to them. I'm not at all big on John - he was a jerk and I feel like because I don't do drugs I don't get as much from his songs as I should be getting. Plus, John's more an abstract poet type, and poetry is a huge blind spot of mine. "Across the Universe" is my favourite of his because of nostalgia, maybe, because it's so personal.

That leaves Paul and George. They'd be co-favourites, maybe, both great songwriting geniuses. George made his few contributions really count: "Here Comes the Sun," "While My Guitar Gently Weeps," "Something." But for every George classic I can name two by Paul, and they're more adventurous than his reputation suggests.

Blackbird, Here There and Everywhere, Eleanor Rigby, Michelle, and yes, because it took me so long to hear and I'm not burned out and sick of it like most middle-aged folks are, even Yesterday... many of my top Beatles tunes are actually Paul all by his lonesome.

Paul it is.

(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT-ExjNCk3LdaEPsimaPTqvX1ghROydi-FxclL9FmPFTJOtRIwb)


Ringo.  Out of the four, he grabs me as the coolest and the one I would want to sit down and have a drink with..  Plus his drumming skills are very underrated, IMO....he did not overdue it, kept the beat, and played what was needed instead of needing to be heard.  Listen to cuts like Good Day Sunshine, etc.  And, he seems to have fun being a Beatle.  What an idea!

Here are 13 other reasons to jump on the Ringo band wagon:

http://web2.airmail.net/gshultz/bryant.html

Quote from: Bogey on September 03, 2013, 06:34:31 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT-ExjNCk3LdaEPsimaPTqvX1ghROydi-FxclL9FmPFTJOtRIwb)


Ringo.  Out of the four, he grabs me as the coolest and the one I would want to sit down and have a drink with..  Plus his drumming skills are very underrated, IMO....he did not overdue it, kept the beat, and played what was needed instead of needing to be heard.  Listen to cuts like Good Day Sunshine, etc.  And, he seems to have fun being a Beatle.  What an idea!

Here are 13 other reasons to jump on the Ringo band wagon:

http://web2.airmail.net/gshultz/bryant.html

Yes, he did give the impression that he didn't take the idea of being A Great Cultural Icon all that seriously.  It's rather as if I like Ringo for the personality and George for the musicianship

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on September 03, 2013, 06:44:58 PM
Yes, he did give the impression that he didn't take the idea of being A Great Cultural Icon all that seriously.  It's rather as if I like Ringo for the personality and George for the musicianship

Fair comment, Jeffrey.

I don't really understand why this poll is here since The Beatles obviously aren't classical musicians.

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 03, 2013, 06:49:49 PM
I don't really understand why this poll is here since The Beatles obviously aren't classical musicians.

1. This is the Polling Station.
2. Precedent (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21349.0.html); precedent (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21339.0.html).
3. Arguably some of their greatest songwriting does ascend to Schubertian levels.

Quote from: Bogey on September 03, 2013, 06:34:31 PMPlus his drumming skills are very underrated, IMO....he did not overdue it, kept the beat, and played what was needed instead of needing to be heard.

Thanks for pointing this out, Bill! It's funny: in jazz, I DO prefer drummers who demand to be heard, like Art Blakey or Joe Morello, to drummers who blend into the band, but when listening to the Beatles, I have never figured out what the "problem" with Ringo's drumming is. It's never flashy, but that's almost an asset: the band could never use flashy drumming as a gimmick to cover up for inferior songs, like so many rock bands have done in the decades since.

Quote from: Brian on September 03, 2013, 07:02:26 PM
1. This is the Polling Station.
2. Precedent (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21349.0.html); precedent (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21339.0.html).
3. Arguably some of their greatest songwriting does ascend to Schubertian levels.

But this is the polling station that's found in the classical section of the forum. The second reason you gave doesn't even remotely make any sense, especially considering you created that poll as well. As for the third, I'm not so sure about that, but, then again, I don't listen to The Beatles. I prefer progressive rock if I'm going to listen to rock music. :)

I suppose it's fairly appropriate to talk about the Beatles in a classical music forum because the increasing erudition and complexity of their music is what led rock music to "replace" classical on a large scale as the genre of music people engage with intellectually, leading to classical music's current situation of socio-cultural irrelevance. They represent, i suppose, the only time "serious" "art" music actually had a mass audience. No other pop icon has really dared to do what they did, (well, the "late capitalist" post-Reagan&Thatcher economic climate precludes it, anyway) although others did similar things and became nearly as popular (for a couple of decades).

That said, i don't like the Beatles's music at all. >.>

The Beatles were marvels, are still great and had a far more important influence on todays music, in most genres, than most "serious" composers can ever dream to achieve. I would have voted if the poll had had the possibility for four selections.

Paul

Quote from: James on September 04, 2013, 01:24:57 AM
They are overexposed & overhyped to be realistic. Yes, they certainly were easy to get, direct, simple, catchy & popular (especially with the young folks) - influencial within their little & limited sphere of musical activity; but virtually irrelevant within meatier musical legacies/traditions.

I think you believe this because you prefer the much simpler earlier work like "I Want to Hold Your Hand." When I listen to a song like "Tell Me What You See," yeah, I hear some painfully simple musical ideas yoked to even simpler lyrics, and that's not the best thing. But that's closer to where they started than where they ended up.

The Beatles brought so much of classical music's complexity and flexibility to pop. These are the guys who helped introduced odd and/or contrasting rhythms ("Yesterday"), stereo effects, Stockhausen-type collages, and a lot of other things to the pop music world. They used aleatoric technique in "A Day in the Life." "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" practically invented metal. Anyway...

Here, this is VERRRY funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S14XaF6bW7A

Well, the poll is now part of The Dinner, where it belongs.
It's classical pop music IMHO, nothing more and nothing less.

FWIW: I love The Beatles since my childhood, and I picked Ringo (again) as my fave, because he was the glue for the band in their last, say, three years.

Paul McCartney was/is very fond of Stockhausen btw. His girlfriend was actress Jane Asher, and I think it was the Asher family who introduced him into the world of 'Higher Art' (whatever that may be) half-way the 60s, after he moved to London. McCartney went a lot to the theatre and to art expositions, and listened to (modern) classical music.

His favourite Stockhausen work was "Gesang der Jünglinge". McCartney introduced Lennon to Stockhausen's music and John also became interested in his music and was inspired by it ("Tomorrow Never Knows" and "Revolution 9").
They band and Brian Epstein desperately wanted Stockhausen on the famous Sgt. Pepper sleeve and sent multiple requests for Stockhausen's approval.

(http://105.imagebam.com/download/WhRVO_N026f2XKh0Prnzug/27426/274254496/beatles_stockhausen_s.jpg)

It was not easy to reach Stockhausen though, because he was on very busy international touring schedules those years. As the story goes, his permission arrived just in time.

As a bonus: Stockhausen's Gesang der Jünglinge (with a kinda creepy clip):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap_A6TgVhdU

Saw them twice in concert in London (made my mother take me  8)) all you heard was screaming. I attended the premieres of 'A Hard Day's Night' and 'Yellow Submarine' in London, where Ringo refused to sign my autograph book. Never forgave him.  :'(

Love The White Album and Abbey Road.

Saw The Monkees live too (all you heard was screaming).  ::)

Quote from: vandermolen on September 05, 2013, 11:42:16 AM
Saw them twice in concert in London (made my mother take me  8)) all you heard was screaming.

My mother said the same thing about the Elvis concert she went to. :)

John

This is what I posted in the Beatles' poll (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,22142.0.html) started by MN Dave (Beorn) two weeks ago (John won that one):


Lennon, for "In My Life"...but these ain't bad either:

I Am the Walrus
Strawberry Fields Forever
If I Fell
Revolution
Norwegian Wood
A Hard Day's Night
Come Together
Dear Prudence
Help!
Nowhere Man
Please Please Me
All You Need Is Love (not true, but hey, it's the thought that counts   8) )


Sarge

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 06, 2013, 05:53:54 AM
All You Need Is Love (not true, but hey, it's the thought that counts   8) )


Sarge

I guess one could say the same of I Am The Walrus.

No one listening to the Deep Purple version of 'Help!'?? It's funny...

Quote from: snyprrr on September 06, 2013, 06:59:18 AM
No one listening to the Deep Purple version of 'Help!'?? It's funny...

So are the "Ticket To Ride" and "Eleanor Rigby" covers by Vanilla Fudge  8)

Sarge

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 06, 2013, 07:03:45 AM
So are the "Ticket To Ride" and "Eleanor Rigby" covers by Vanilla Fudge  8)

Sarge

Vanilla Fudge... uh oh, I FEEL A FLASHBACK COMING ON. (whoops) I like the unknown Iron Butterfly too. Those two bands- Sunset Strip- ahh, the late '60s...

Abstaining, because for me, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts (as was probably demonstrated by the subsequent solo careers).

Tempted to vote for the Rutles, though, as a dogged (slight joke, there) Neil Innes fan.

[I follow both Neil Innes and Ringo on Twitter.]

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 06, 2013, 07:19:42 AM
Abstaining, because for me, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts (as was probably demonstrated by the subsequent solo careers).

Tempted to vote for the Rutles, though, as a dogged (slight joke, there) Neil Innes fan.

True dat. The Bonzo's were fun.

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 06, 2013, 07:03:45 AM
So are the "Ticket To Ride" and "Eleanor Rigby" covers by Vanilla Fudge  8)

Sarge

http://www.youtube.com/v/KXguMvQ7fug

Anybody interested in buying Ringo Starr's artwork? He makes it all in Microsoft Paint.

(http://www.ringostarrart.com/images/Starr/Yer%20Baby....Ringo%20Peace%20Sign.jpg)

http://www.ringostarrart.com/starr_artwork.htm

Quote from: Brian on September 06, 2013, 07:53:44 AM
Anybody interested in buying Ringo Starr's artwork? He makes it all in Microsoft Paint.

Not me. All my spare change goes to Saul's computer art. Genuine graphic genius there.

Sarge

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 06, 2013, 11:17:01 AM
Not me. All my spare change goes to Saul's computer art. Genuine graphic genius there.

That would be the "White Horse Galloping in Front of a Castle with a Snow Capped Mountain in the Background" genre?

ROFLMAOEBO

(Rolling on the floor laughing my arguably over-educated butt off.)

Quote from: James on September 04, 2013, 03:30:11 PM
Paul McCartney has since tried his hand at 'heavier' more higher minded musical things lets say (as a writer, not a player)

I understand that he still can't read or write music and has someone put together his ideas for him.  Well, you can do that when you're a multimillionaire.

I remember my piano teacher insisting that the Beatles do too read music.   What else was she going to say?

What could be higher-minded than "Hi, Hi, Hi"?

Quote from: Brian on September 06, 2013, 07:53:44 AM
Anybody interested in buying Ringo Starr's artwork? He makes it all in Microsoft Paint.

(http://www.ringostarrart.com/images/Starr/Yer%20Baby....Ringo%20Peace%20Sign.jpg)

http://www.ringostarrart.com/starr_artwork.htm

No.

Quote from: Brian on September 06, 2013, 07:53:44 AM
Anybody interested in buying Ringo Starr's artwork? He makes it all in Microsoft Paint.

(http://www.ringostarrart.com/images/Starr/Yer%20Baby....Ringo%20Peace%20Sign.jpg)

http://www.ringostarrart.com/starr_artwork.htm

If the money is going to a good cause, I won't sneer.

Don Van Vliet was a much more interesting musician-turned-artist.

Quote from: Daverz on September 07, 2013, 05:04:40 PM
If the money is going to a good cause, I won't sneer.

Well, that is a point.

Was a time when people found artists with talent, and bought their canvases because they believed it was fine art.  I suppose we just live in a different day.

Quote from: Brian on September 06, 2013, 07:53:44 AM
Anybody interested in buying Ringo Starr's artwork? He makes it all in Microsoft Paint.

Maybe he should invest in a Macintosh.

Quote from: Scarpia on September 08, 2013, 08:07:31 AM
Maybe he should invest in a Macintosh.

The guy is a multimillionaire who never needs to work again.  He could afford a lot of art lessons.

Quote from: Daverz on September 08, 2013, 08:13:58 AM
The guy is a multimillionaire who never needs to work again.  He could afford a lot of art lessons.

Wisdom.

He could even afford to buy his own productions and not give a damn about the economics.

I quite realize how influential they have been for over 60 years and respect them as I would any other group of musicians. But their music doesn't move me. Couple of cute (what I consider) novelty numbers are catchy and their "experimentation" with "World Music" is equally as novel but, frankly, forgettable. I'd much rather hear ragas, for instance, performed by the everyday practioners of the art than a Beatles excursion.

However, I've greatly admired them as individual artist/musicians over the years, particularly John, Paul and George. Their solo projects are among some of my favorite albums. I suppose those accomplishments couldn't have occurred without the gestation period of The Beatles but at least they got there.  ;D 

Quote from: ando on February 13, 2024, 10:22:43 AMI quite realize how influential they have been for over 60 years and respect them as I would any other group of musicians. But their music doesn't move me. Couple of cute (what I consider) novelty numbers are catchy and their "experimentation" with "World Music" is equally as novel but, frankly, forgettable. I'd much rather hear ragas, for instance, performed by the everyday practioners of the art than a Beatles excursion.

However, I've greatly admired them as individual artist/musicians over the years, particularly John, Paul and George. Their solo projects are among some of my favorite albums. I suppose those accomplishments couldn't have occurred without the gestation period of The Beatles but at least they got there.  ;D 

Which are your favorite solo albums?

Quote from: Karl Henning on February 13, 2024, 08:31:30 AM

Who is the poster and what do you know about her musical background?

PD

Quote from: Karl Henning on February 13, 2024, 10:31:13 AMWhich are your favorite solo albums?

All Things Must Pass, George Harrison
Band on the Run, Paul McCartney
Double Fantasy, John Lennon

Did find an interesting album-by-album retrospective in their own words. Pretty cool and brief.  :)

...and @Brian...well, I don't think that (these days anyway) that I really have a favorite.  Probably, years and years (Many) ago, I probably would have said Paul; however, I've really come to appreciate their different voices and approaches to music/views on life, politics, etc. ...particularly George and John.  How could you not like their songs?  Ringo is the one that I know the least of in terms of his music.

PD

Quote from: ando on February 13, 2024, 10:48:33 AMAll Things Must Pass, George Harrison
Band on the Run, Paul McCartney
Double Fantasy, John Lennon

All solid. Nice!

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on February 13, 2024, 10:42:49 AMWho is the poster and what do you know about her musical background?

PD

I know nothing as yet, PD. In fact, I've paused the vid for the time being.

Quote from: Karl Henning on February 13, 2024, 10:58:41 AMI know nothing as yet, PD. In fact, I've paused the vid for the time being.

I found this:  https://en.everybodywiki.com/Aimee_Nolte

PD

p.s.  And me too...as it's rather long!

My favorite single released by the Beatles was Paperback Writer b/w Rain - but tied with Strawberry Fields Forever b/w Penny Lane.

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on February 13, 2024, 11:07:23 AMI found this:  https://en.everybodywiki.com/Aimee_Nolte

PD

p.s.  And me too...as it's rather long!

It pretty much rolls along, though. Not the deepest dive, but an enjoyable pastime.

Quote from: ando on February 13, 2024, 10:48:33 AMDid find an interesting album-by-album retrospective in their own words. Pretty cool and brief.  :)

Fun.

Paul McCartney reunited with guitar stolen 51 years ago.

"Sir Paul McCartney has been reunited with the bass guitar he used on Beatles hits including Love Me Do and She Loves You, 51 years after it was stolen from the back of a van in London."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-68312355

PD

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on February 15, 2024, 06:09:40 PMPaul McCartney reunited with guitar stolen 51 years ago.

"Sir Paul McCartney has been reunited with the bass guitar he used on Beatles hits including Love Me Do and She Loves You, 51 years after it was stolen from the back of a van in London."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-68312355

PD

Nice!

Now, if only I could be reunited with my upright bass that was stolen out of a van in NYC 42 years ago, the circle would be complete.

 ;)  8)

Quote from: San Antone on February 15, 2024, 07:18:37 PMNow, if only I could be reunited with my upright bass that was stolen out of a van in NYC 42 years ago, the circle would be complete.

 ;)  8)

Augh!  :'( I'm so sorry!

PD

Quote from: San Antone on February 15, 2024, 07:18:37 PMNow, if only I could be reunited with my upright bass that was stolen out of a van in NYC 42 years ago, the circle would be complete.

 ;)  8)

Not the easiest instrument to hide under your coat.

OT @Pohjolas Daughter your in box is full. thanks for yr msg
[/OT]

Quote from: Karl Henning on February 16, 2024, 02:53:22 PMOT @Pohjolas Daughter your in box is full. thanks for yr msg
[/OT]

Sorry about that!  Have deleted a bit...more to do.

PD

Quote from: Karl Henning on February 16, 2024, 02:53:22 PMOT @Pohjolas Daughter your in box is full. thanks for yr msg
[/OT]

Should be room now.

PD

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on February 13, 2024, 11:07:23 AMI found this:  https://en.everybodywiki.com/Aimee_Nolte

PD

p.s.  And me too...as it's rather long!

One item that was news to me: I had heard a Rahsaan Roland Kirk track, "High Heel Sneakers:


It's so funked out, it hadn't occurred to me that there might be an R&B original, so a tip of the hat to Ms. Nolte!

Was recently engaged to write a Beatles-type arrangement for someone's original song.

All I can say is: The more someone tries to sound like the Beatles, the more they sound like the Rutles.

 (Soundalike tribute bands excluded, at least the better ones.)

Quote from: KevinP on February 17, 2024, 08:25:02 PMWas recently engaged to write a Beatles-type arrangement for someone's original song.

All I can say is: The more someone tries to sound like the Beatles, the more they sound like the Rutles.

:laugh:

PD

Quote from: KevinP on February 17, 2024, 08:25:02 PMWas recently engaged to write a Beatles-type arrangement for someone's original song.

All I can say is: The more someone tries to sound like the Beatles, the more they sound like the Rutles.

First, I'd ask myself which stylistic period is most appropriate ( Love me, Do vs. Tax Man vs. The Inner Light, etc. ).

Next, should it be playful/surreal like John, personal like Paul, or exploring like George?

If you have a reasonably good knowledge of their harmonic and instrumental preferences, those two parameters should provide enough for a start. 

Quote from: KevinP on February 17, 2024, 08:25:02 PMWas recently engaged to write a Beatles-type arrangement for someone's original song.

All I can say is: The more someone tries to sound like the Beatles, the more they sound like the Rutles.

"Cheese and Onions!"

Quote from: Karl Henning on February 18, 2024, 09:35:36 AM"Cheese and Onions!"

You know, I've never seen that movie.  Worth watching these days?

PD

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on February 18, 2024, 11:17:59 AMYou know, I've never seen that movie.  Worth watching these days?

PD

I think so! I always revel in the gifts of the late, great Neil Innes!

Quote from: LKB on February 18, 2024, 06:29:19 AMFirst, I'd ask myself which stylistic period is most appropriate ( Love me, Do vs. Tax Man vs. The Inner Light, etc. ).

Next, should it be playful/surreal like John, personal like Paul, or exploring like George?

If you have a reasonably good knowledge of their harmonic and instrumental preferences, those two parameters should provide enough for a start. 

All those decisions were made by the person who reached out to me.

Bernstein talks about Good Day Sunshine, She Said She Said, etc.. I imagine he really liked Revolver.





(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbW2usrXYAAsItM?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on February 18, 2024, 11:17:59 AMYou know, I've never seen that movie.  Worth watching these days?

PD

Absolutely.

It's on YouTube:

Quote from: KevinP on February 17, 2024, 08:38:38 PM(Soundalike tribute bands excluded, at least the better ones.)

The best of them are the Dutch group The Analogues. They go above and beyond to recreate the sounds of The Beatles.

Example:

At least they don't try to emulate them physically.

I mean, insisting that band members have at least a passing similarity (and a left-handed bassist) must surely cut down on the available talent pool.

Reminds me when Beatlemania (the Broadway play) was out, and there was a tv documentary/news story about the casting. There was someone singing, off-camera, who you'd swear was Paul McCartney, but then the cut to them and they were Japanese.

Quote from: KevinP on February 28, 2024, 03:09:03 PMAt least they don't try to emulate them physically.

I mean, insisting that band members have at least a passing similarity (and a left-handed bassist) must surely cut down on the available talent pool.

Reminds me when Beatlemania (the Broadway play) was out, and there was a tv documentary/news story about the casting. There was someone singing, off-camera, who you'd swear was Paul McCartney, but then the cut to them and they were Japanese.

Man, I'd clean forgotten. My then girlfriend and I were able to attend that show on night.

We saw it in Chicago. It was fun for what it was, and it was novel at the time. Doubt there will ever be a revival as soundalike tribute bands are too commonplace now.

It's probably not fair of me to hold it against the group; but a critic once wrote that John Lennon's songwriting was more memorable than Schubert's. I don't even know what that means since Schubert had about a century and a quarter head start.

Quote from: geralmar on April 20, 2024, 07:44:37 PMIt's probably not fair of me to hold it against the group; but a critic once wrote that John Lennon's songwriting was more memorable than Schubert's. I don't even know what that means since Schubert had about a century and a quarter head start.

Perhaps he used " memorable " but was thinking " accessible ". That would make more sense.

Either way, it's doubtful he was thoroughly familiar with Schubert's Lieder.