GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: Albion on September 03, 2011, 11:57:00 AM

Title: Unsung composers
Post by: Albion on September 03, 2011, 11:57:00 AM
In case members of GMG are unaware of UC, there is a forum specifically devoted to little-heard composers -

http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php)

It is a thriving (if rather smaller in scale) community biased towards music that is less familiar in performance and recording. Recently a new section specifically devoted to providing digital downloads was created, focussing on radio broadcasts and out-of-print recordings, which can be accessed on joining the forum. Several members of GMG are members of UC and vice versa - a great way of spreading useful information and opinions between different on-line communities.

 ;D
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 12:43:51 PM
In case members of GMG are unaware of UC, there is a forum specifically devoted to little-heard composers -

http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php)

It is a thriving (if rather smaller in scale) community biased towards music that is less familiar in performance and recording. Recently a new section specifically devoted to providing digital downloads was created, focussing on radio broadcasts and out-of-print recordings, which can be accessed on joining the forum. Several members of GMG are members of UC and vice versa - a great way of spreading useful information and opinions between different on-line communities.

 ;D

Yes, spread the news, Albion!
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Dundonnell on September 03, 2011, 12:58:13 PM
Yes, spread the news, Albion!

So we can ALL go to jail together?? ;D ;D
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 12:59:31 PM
So we can ALL go to jail together?? ;D ;D


What a marvellous prospect (if we can have our music with us).  ;)
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Albion on September 03, 2011, 01:01:51 PM
So we can ALL go to jail together?? ;D ;D

At least here in the UK, given the recent domestic troubles, I doubt there will be any room.
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 03, 2011, 01:02:30 PM
At least here in the UK, given the recent domestic troubles, I doubt there will be any room.


Bummer!
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Dundonnell on September 03, 2011, 01:04:00 PM
At least here in the UK, given the recent domestic troubles, I doubt there will be any room.

Particularly if we take all our downloads with us ;D ;D
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Albion on September 03, 2011, 01:09:21 PM
Particularly if we take all our downloads with us ;D ;D

The cakes smuggled in would contain a very different sort of 'file'.

 ;D
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Dundonnell on September 03, 2011, 01:11:09 PM
The cakes smuggled in would contain a very different sort of 'file'.

 ;D

Haha!
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Hattoff on September 03, 2011, 10:28:16 PM
Oh, my goodness. There's music there I have only dreamt of hearing :) Will join right now.
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Luke on September 03, 2011, 10:36:34 PM
Oh, my goodness. There's music there I have only dreamt of hearing :) Will join right now.

Ditto. Except I did it already....
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Wanderer on September 03, 2011, 10:56:07 PM
Thanks for the heads-up, Albion! I wasn't aware of UC. Irrespective of the downloads section (an impressive resource in itself), a quick glance last night showed a vibrant community with lots of very interesting (well, to me) subjects and discussions... and the same forum format as here. What more could one ask?  8)
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: vandermolen on September 03, 2011, 11:37:56 PM
Thanks to a 'tip off' from a GMG member I found Rootham's Second Symphony and downloaded it - a fine work, quite different to Symphony No 1 on Lyrita.  The early recording of Bantock's 'Celtic Symphony' looks a must too.

See you all in Wormwood Scrubbs!
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Albion on September 03, 2011, 11:56:24 PM
See you all in Wormwood Scrubbs!

I could do with free access to a gym, the internet and Sky TV.

The moderators at UC are strict as to what can be made available. Quite rightly, commercially-available recordings are taboo, but everything else is fair-game, especially radio broadcasts shared between friends. Much of this repertoire would otherwise be completely inaccessible and enthusiasts' willingness to share means that performances are not lost (the National Sound Archive in London, whilst containing a large number of broadcasts, is far from comprehensive in it's coverage).

 ;D
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Cato on September 04, 2011, 03:10:12 AM
Well, now I sort of kind of have a vague, hazy, fuzzy notion of what few things might possibly be available at site UIC!   ;D

I was hoping for some works by e.g. Julian Carrillo, Ivan Wyschnegradsky, and Sergei Protopopov, but I will look into some of the people listed.

Many thanks for your efforts!
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Lethevich on September 04, 2011, 05:25:01 AM
Thank you for the pointer! :)
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Dundonnell on September 04, 2011, 05:33:25 AM
I joined an hour ago.

What can I say? It is like Christmas has come early, except it is several Christmases rolled into one :) :) :)

All but one of the unavailable Wordsworth symphonies, the Alan Bush Symphony No.4 and Piano Concerto, Cooke's Cello Concerto, the Fricker 3rd, the Stanley Bate Piano Concertos Nos. 2 and 3, McCabe's 3rd, the Hoddinott 10th, the Simpson Cello Concerto.....etc, etc, etc.

I am fit to explode ;D ;D ;D

This is just wonderful :) Thank you over and over again :) It just goes to show how generous music-lovers can be ;D
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: vandermolen on September 04, 2011, 05:46:14 AM
I joined an hour ago.

What can I say? It is like Christmas has come early, except it is several Christmases rolled into one :) :) :)

All but one of the unavailable Wordsworth symphonies, the Alan Bush Symphony No.4 and Piano Concerto, Cooke's Cello Concerto, the Fricker 3rd, the Stanley Bate Piano Concertos Nos. 2 and 3, McCabe's 3rd, the Hoddinott 10th, the Simpson Cello Concerto.....etc, etc, etc.

I am fit to explode ;D ;D ;D

This is just wonderful :) Thank you over and over again :) It just goes to show how generous music-lovers can be ;D

Yes, I agree. This morning I downloaded the 1948 recording of Bantock's 'Celtic Symphony' - wonderful.  The opening has even greater atmosphere and depth to the wonderful Hyperion recording. My other recommendation is Ruth Gipps Symphony No 4 - a masterpiece. Also Rootham's Symphony 2 and I shall be very interested to hear John Kinsella's 6th Symphony having enjoyed the two earlier symphonies (3 and 4) on Marco Polo.
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Dundonnell on September 04, 2011, 05:49:16 AM
Isn't it just fantastic, Jeffrey?

I shall be busy for days :) :) :)

I am almost finished the final Appendix to the fourth and last part of my book...only the Introduction and Conclusion to follow...but it will have to wait ;D
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: vandermolen on September 04, 2011, 05:58:03 AM
Isn't it just fantastic, Jeffrey?

I shall be busy for days :) :) :)

I am almost finished the final Appendix to the fourth and last part of my book...only the Introduction and Conclusion to follow...but it will have to wait ;D

Yes, it may take months now that you have discovered 'unsung composers' - I will try to arrange adjacent cells for us in Wormwood Scrubbs (as in the 'Shawshank Redemption - I'll have the end cell  :D) so that we can continue to compare notes there Colin  :)

Even Novak's 'Autumn Symphony' is available for download  :o - not much school homework marking will be going on this term - they will have to wait  8)
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 04, 2011, 06:00:42 AM
England and Scotland are safe again, with these two men behind their stereos.


Holland, too, come to think of it, as I am going to listen to Bantock's Celtic.  ;D


Later: Wow! What beauty!
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: vandermolen on September 04, 2011, 06:16:59 AM
England and Scotland are safe again, with these two men behind their stereos.


Holland, too, come to think of it, as I am going to listen to Bantock's Celtic.  ;D


Wow! What beauty!

Let us know what you think Johan - the opening is wonderfully atmospheric I think.  The historic recording (only a few years after the Celtic Symphony was composed) adds to it I think.
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 04, 2011, 06:22:51 AM
Let us know what you think Johan - the opening is wonderfully atmospheric I think.  The historic recording (only a few years after the Celtic Symphony was composed) adds to it I think.


That 'Wow!' was for Bantock. The Celtic Symphony just finished. I love it. In the beautiful passages the strings sound more 'melting',  and in the more robust ones they have an earthier sound than in the classic Handley recording. Wonderful performance!
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: vandermolen on September 04, 2011, 06:27:02 AM

That 'Wow!' was for Bantock. The Celtic Symphony just finished. I love it. In the beautiful passages the strings sound more 'melting',  and in the more robust ones they have an earthier sound than in the classic Handley recording. Wonderful performance!

Yes, it's great - faster than the Handley, as was possibly the custom at the time (was it on a 78 or early LP I wonder?) - quite a different performance but very beautiful in the lyrical sections and, as you say, earthier in the more robust passages + there is a greater sense of rhytmic urgency I think - very moving.
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 04, 2011, 06:31:01 AM
Yes, it's great - faster than the Handley, as was possibly the custom at the time (was it on a 78 or early LP I wonder?) - quite a different performance but very beautiful in the lyrical sections and, as you say, earthier in the more robust passages + there is a greater sense of rhytmic urgency I think - very moving.


Yes, forgot to mention that - that tempo is much faster, but it works really well. The piece is less contemplative that way, perhaps even less overtly 'beautiful'.
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: vandermolen on September 04, 2011, 06:37:12 AM

Yes, forgot to mention that - that tempo is much faster, but it works really well. The piece is less contemplative that way, perhaps even less overtly 'beautiful'.

The harps are very fine at the end too. Altogether a more confident performance I think; 17.31 minutes as opposed to Handley's 19.55 minutes.
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Albion on September 04, 2011, 10:02:12 PM
Dundonnell has reported problems downloading a couple of files from the British music folders over at UC. From experience with mediafire (a very good but not infallible host) this can happen from time to time without any apparent reason, especially if the file has not been accessed for quite a while. As with most things to do with computing, nothing ever seems to operate in quite the way that it should do all the time!

 ???

Hopefully, this glitch is limited to just a few 'rogue' items, but if members are downloading files from the British section and encounter similar intractable error messages, please send me a list of these and I will endeavour to get them sorted out.

 ;D
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Dundonnell on September 06, 2011, 07:38:40 AM
I hope to be able to add some/most/all :-\ of the taped material listed here-

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,10658.100.html
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Lethevich on September 06, 2011, 10:05:50 AM
So not to derail the Jones thread with more comments on the list:

The Cooke works intrigue me, naturally, as I am a bit of a fan of his music - but it's a shame that the 2nd, which I believe fellow GMG member Christo considers to be his finest work, is notable by its absence in both yours and Albion's lists. I wonder whether the thing has even been recorded? :'( Meh, something to look forward to at least - although the recent releases of his 1st and 3rd symphonies on Lyrita being old recordings doesn't exactly bode well for anything new.
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Mirror Image on September 06, 2011, 10:34:55 AM
Koechlin fits the mold of an unsung composer I think. :D As much as I would like to think that his music is being heard, it's probably not.
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: thalbergmad on September 06, 2011, 10:43:23 AM
Koechlin fits the mold of an unsung composer I think. :D As much as I would like to think that his music is being heard, it's probably not.

My only experience of him thus far was his Ballade Op.50. I thought it was beautiful and flowing, but its haunting melodies would stop me from listening to it again in a dark room on my own.

Thal
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Mirror Image on September 06, 2011, 11:24:08 AM
My only experience of him thus far was his Ballade Op.50. I thought it was beautiful and flowing, but its haunting melodies would stop me from listening to it again in a dark room on my own.

Thal

Yes, the Ballade written for piano and orchestra is a beautiful work. I heard it on YouTube. I do not own that EMI disc it appeared on. This is the recording:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ubmouVO6TIU/Tgjb_hAjdnI/AAAAAAAAHKU/BSd3Y0bvaoo/s1600/front.jpg)

If you need any suggestions of Koechlin recordings or maybe where to go next, then don't hesitate to ask me or visit the Koechlin composer thread.
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: vandermolen on September 06, 2011, 01:54:38 PM
Dundonnell has reported problems downloading a couple of files from the British music folders over at UC. From experience with mediafire (a very good but not infallible host) this can happen from time to time without any apparent reason, especially if the file has not been accessed for quite a while. As with most things to do with computing, nothing ever seems to operate in quite the way that it should do all the time!

 ???

Hopefully, this glitch is limited to just a few 'rogue' items, but if members are downloading files from the British section and encounter similar intractable error messages, please send me a list of these and I will endeavour to get them sorted out.

 ;D

I couldn't download Novak's 'Autumn Symphony' from the Czech composer's section.
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Dundonnell on September 06, 2011, 02:06:49 PM
I couldn't download Novak's 'Autumn Symphony' from the Czech composer's section.

I downloaded it but it is in .rar format of course which needs to be opened.
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 06, 2011, 02:44:48 PM
Tell Jeffrey to download 7-zip, Colin. Then he can unpack the file...


http://www.7-zip.org/ (http://www.7-zip.org/)


 :D
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Luke on September 06, 2011, 03:07:38 PM
I downloaded it but it is in .rar format of course which needs to be opened.

it sounds to me like the opening is missing from the first movement, which is a shame.
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Dundonnell on September 07, 2011, 03:39:39 AM
Music from European and American composers taped by me and not otherwise available on cd(or at least not as far as I know :D):

Henk Badings:        Double Violin Concerto

Conrad Beck:          Clarinet Concerto

Boris Blacher:         Cello Concerto
                              Collage for orchestra

Carlos Chavez:       Violin Concerto

Henry Cowell:         Symphony No.4 "Short Symphony"
                               Concerto for percussion and orchestra

Lukas Foss:            "A Parable of Death"

Camargo Guarnieri:  Choro for cello and orchestra

Oscar van Hamel:     Symphony No.4

Roy Harris:                Fantasy for piano and orchestra
                                 "Kentucky Spring" for orchestra

Anton Heiller:            Organ Concerto

Edwin Komauer:       Symphony No.1                           (Webern's first teacher!)

Lars-Erik Larsson:    Variations for Orchestra
                                 Music for Orchestra

Colin McPhee:          Symphony No.2

Juan Orrego-Salas:  Symphony No.2                               (Chilean composer)

Willem Pijper:           Symphonic Drama "Halewijn"

Walter Piston:          Concerto for Orchestra
                                Concertino for piano and chamber orchestra

Jean Rivier:              Symphony No.3

Henri Sauguet:        Piano Concerto No.1

Ottmar Schoeck:      Cantata "Vom Fischer und syner Fru"

William Schuman:     Voyage for orchestra

Eugen Souchon:       Phantasy on Bach for organ and orchestra

Bernard Wagenaar:  Symphony No.4


Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 07, 2011, 03:55:04 AM
Another nice list, Colin, and one which doesn't cause RSI.  ;D


Can't wait for the next one, with all those Asian symphonists.  ;)
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Dundonnell on September 07, 2011, 04:00:33 AM
Another nice list, Colin, and one which doesn't cause RSI.  ;D


Can't wait for the next one, with all those Asian symphonists.  ;)

As they say......."wait on!" :D :D
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Luke on September 07, 2011, 07:53:46 AM
Was interesting to download the Anthony Burgess Piano Concerto - yes, that Anthony Burgess. Now, I wonder if anyone, anywhere in the world, has a recording of his Concertino for Cor Anglais and Orchestra. I have the score, I'd love to hear it!
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: cilgwyn on September 07, 2011, 08:11:44 AM
Nit picking,I know;but the McPhee has been or was available as a cd. I downloaded it a while back from Amazon. It's very probably a different performance,anyway.
But virtually everything else is unattainable. As far as I know.
You're British catalogue is in the mind boggling category.
Ony two disappointments. No David Wynne or the complete Radio 3 performance of Holst's opera 'The Perfect Fool'. Oh,and Daniel Jones's Fifth!
But with treasure trove like that,picking out very minor omissions like that,IS nit picking!
(I should be ashamed of myself!) Let's all just hope to goodness that the tapes are okay!

You're attic finds,Dundonnell, remind me of a cartoon in Private eye,which showed a bloke on the Antiques roadshow,with a water cistern on the table,saying " I found this tucked away in my attic. Do you think it's worth anything?"
Thankfully,you've done allot better than that!
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: cilgwyn on September 07, 2011, 08:14:55 AM
Oh,and Patric Standfords,much panned,but I thought,wonderful,wacky fifth symphony. Broadcast c1985 with Joan Rodgers. Her singing was gorgeous.
Anyone out there got that?
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Dundonnell on September 07, 2011, 09:09:28 AM
I did wonder about the McPhee ;D

I can assure you that if Daniel Jones 5th had been broadcast between the time I started taping in 1973 and the time I stopped(probably the late 1970s or early 1980s-for a number of dfferent reasons) I would have taped it ;D

The thing is that patience will be required....from ME as much as anyone. It will take a long time to transfer this stuff :)
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: cilgwyn on September 07, 2011, 11:08:44 AM
You don't want to end up paying a McPhee to someone!!!
Don't worry,I think most rational people would be pretty content with what you've got.
I should think they'll be allright. I put on a 25 year old cassette the other day,as I told you & it still worked. I do think allot depends on how you store them. In the right conditions & treated properly,I personally believe that tape can be a pretty durable medium. I don't really see how you could have stored them better,short of laboratory style conditions. Yours will be well over 30 years,though.
That's pretty old.
I believe there were two complete cycle of Daniel Jones symphonies broadcast on Radio 3? I shall have to find out more about them & when they were broadcast.
Wonderful stuff. I still can't get over the sheer range & breadth of you're find.
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Dundonnell on September 08, 2011, 11:36:21 AM
I was speaking to another friend today who knows someone who runs a music studio.

There is a real possibility that the transfer of the music on my tapes could therefore be done semi-professionally in the studio with all the necessary equipment to hand :)

Will need to follow this offer up ;D ;D
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: J.Z. Herrenberg on September 08, 2011, 11:41:46 AM
I was speaking to another friend today who knows someone who runs a music studio.

There is a real possibility that the transfer of the music on my tapes could therefore be done semi-professionally in the studio with all the necessary equipment to hand :)

Will need to follow this offer up ;D ;D


 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Unsung composers
Post by: Grazioso on September 09, 2011, 10:06:01 AM
Speaking of unsung composers: I've been working on a list of composers whose complete symphonies have been recorded on commercial CD's (a list that naturally entails many obscurities) and would appreciate any additions/corrections from those who might be interested in helping:

Pages 2 and 3 of this thread: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,19169.20.html