Haydn's Haus

Started by Gurn Blanston, April 06, 2007, 04:15:04 PM

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Jo498 and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Jo498

My favorite op. 54 is by the Juilliard Qt. but it's available only in a box and one has to live with lack of repeats and the typically dry and direct sound provided this ensemble in the 1960s.
I have heard good things about another 60s? or older recording (by the Allegri Qt? on Westminster or Vox?) but this was never on CD and I never found a grey source of LP transfers.

I have not kept up with the most recent recordings but the Endellion also made a solid recording of op.54 (can be found very cheaply). I'd have hoped that the Auryn would be very good. I have not heard the "London Haydn Qt", the period instrument recording by the Festetics is not among my favorites (they are good in #2 but too earthbound and slowish in #1) but worth trying (IIRC they are better in op.55 on the 2nd disc).
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Jo498

Quote from: Skogwald on February 04, 2023, 07:21:20 AMI haven't yet found his symphonies nearly as sublime as his quartets, keyboard sonatas and piano trios.
The symphonies cover slightly different ground. Many are a bit more "crowd pleasers" for obvious reasons, but some also offer other aspects. The "wildest" quartet might be op.20/3 but some symphonies from around 1770 (39, 45, 49 etc.) ware far "stormier".
And in the late symphonies there are movements as subtle and sublime as any in the quartets. The most renowned slow movement might be in #88 (Brahms supposedly said he wanted his 9th symphony to sound like this (probably apocryphal). Tovey once wrote that the two best instrumental pieces by Haydn were the quartet op.77/2 and the symphonies 102 and 104.
There is also, more in earlier symphonies, the concertante element with soli and colorful instrumentation, e.g. in the "day times" 6-8 or "horn call" #31.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Skogwald

Quote from: Jo498 on February 05, 2023, 06:23:08 AMThe symphonies cover slightly different ground. Many are a bit more "crowd pleasers" for obvious reasons, but some also offer other aspects. The "wildest" quartet might be op.20/3 but some symphonies from around 1770 (39, 45, 49 etc.) ware far "stormier".
And in the late symphonies there are movements as subtle and sublime as any in the quartets. The most renowned slow movement might be in #88 (Brahms supposedly said he wanted his 9th symphony to sound like this (probably apocryphal). Tovey once wrote that the two best instrumental pieces by Haydn were the quartet op.77/2 and the symphonies 102 and 104.
There is also, more in earlier symphonies, the concertante element with soli and colorful instrumentation, e.g. in the "day times" 6-8 or "horn call" #31.

Thank you for this writeup. I might now just revisit these symphonies that you mentioned here!

Mapman

Quote from: Skogwald on February 05, 2023, 07:22:31 AMThank you for this writeup. I might now just revisit these symphonies that you mentioned here!

I'm also still getting to know Haydn's symphonies, but I'll second the recommendation for #31 "Hornsignal". The 4th movement theme and variations is almost a concerto for orchestra.

DavidW

Quote from: Skogwald on February 04, 2023, 07:21:20 AMFor me, Derzhavina is definitely the pianist who best manages to convey the beauty in these works.

I rarely listen to the early sonatas, but I'll try to track down Derzhavina on streaming and give a listen.

Mandryka

Quote from: Jo498 on February 05, 2023, 04:41:15 AMMy favorite op. 54 is by the Juilliard Qt.

Pro Arte for me.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Jo498

With the Pro Arte one has to live not only with lack repeats but 1930s sound; I don't remember enough about this one, in fact because there series is so incomplete, I would not have known that op.54 is complete (it is, so is op.74). I got them when it came in the slim box but I have not listened to it enough (I probably went through the whole box about once) and never really got what's so special about them to make up for the historical sound, so I'd be wary to recommend them.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Mandryka

Quote from: Jo498 on February 05, 2023, 09:35:56 AMWith the Pro Arte one has to live not only with lack repeats but 1930s sound; I don't remember enough about this one, in fact because there series is so incomplete, I would not have known that op.54 is complete (it is, so is op.74). I got them when it came in the slim box but I have not listened to it enough (I probably went through the whole box about once) and never really got what's so special about them to make up for the historical sound, so I'd be wary to recommend them.

And don't forget Lindsay for the second movement of op 54/2.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Madiel

My op.54 is the Endellion. But really, I think it's most unfortunate when people split 54/55, including performers. It should be a single set.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Jo498

Yes; apparently a publisher at Haydn's time or shortly thereafter started it but I dislike it as well.  Because ensembles today should know better. Nevertheless, the separate  Juilliard op.54 is my favorite recording.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

amw

There are good individual sets of Op. 54 and 55 by the Párkányí and Panocha Quartets respectively as well, both in modern sound; I don't hear them discussed very often and am curious as to other people's thoughts on them. (I usually also turn to the Juilliard Quartet in Op. 54 though.)

Madiel

Well Panocha was my choice for 55, so I can say I liked them a lot.

I can't remember anymore exactly what I compared them to, but I was more than satisfied to use Endellion/Panocha as my 54/55 set.

This is all just reminding me of my need to follow through on buying my choices for 1, 2, 9 and 17...
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Karl Henning

Here in Boston!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Daverz

#12873
Quote from: amw on February 05, 2023, 11:53:07 PMThere are good individual sets of Op. 54 and 55 by the Párkányí and Panocha Quartets respectively as well, both in modern sound; I don't hear them discussed very often and am curious as to other people's thoughts on them. (I usually also turn to the Juilliard Quartet in Op. 54 though.)

Yes, the Panocha Op. 55 is excellent.  They also recorded Op. 33, which is available for download:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8933040--haydn-string-quartets-nos-4-6
https://open.qobuz.com/album/livodryc9z5qb

Note that the title is incorrect; all 6 quartets are included in the download.

And they recorded Op. 76.  Qobuz has it for download (2 discs), though I don't see it at Presto.

https://open.qobuz.com/album/zix6dzzqphqfb
https://open.qobuz.com/album/namsv92sseeob

Jo498

I don't remember enough but I also have the Panocha op.55 and probably liked it. I bet the op.33 is pretty good but I am not paying for downloads.
If one can live with Brainins manners, the Amadeus is also pretty good in op.54/55, IIRC.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Mandryka

Quote from: amw on February 05, 2023, 11:53:07 PMThere are good individual sets of Op. 54 and 55 by the Párkányí and Panocha Quartets respectively as well, both in modern sound; I don't hear them discussed very often and am curious as to other people's thoughts on them. (I usually also turn to the Juilliard Quartet in Op. 54 though.)

The thing that I like about Parkanyi is the sound, the sound and balance of the ensemble and the engineering.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

71 dB

#12876
I watched on TV a concert from Helsinki Music Hall (conductor Maxim Emelyanychev). They played Haydn's Sinfonia Concertante (+Ligeti/Mendelssohn). I don't remember hearing the work before. I liked it a lot.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

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Jo498

I love the gorgeous slow movement of the Sinfonia concertante; the outer movements are good but not huge favorites.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

71 dB

Quote from: Jo498 on February 15, 2023, 11:00:22 AMI love the gorgeous slow movement of the Sinfonia concertante; the outer movements are good but not huge favorites.

Yes, the slow movement is excellent!
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Skogwald

Quote from: 71 dB on February 15, 2023, 10:50:50 AMI watched on TV a concert from Helsinki Music Hall (conductor Maxim Emelyanychev). They played Haydn's Sinfonia Concertante (+Ligeti/Mendelssohn). I don't remember hearing the work before. I liked it a lot.

I was there! It was a great, joyous performance of a brilliant piece. I also like how they went from Ligeti to Haydn