GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Composer Discussion => Topic started by: Maciek on November 13, 2008, 02:32:49 AM

Title: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maciek on November 13, 2008, 02:32:49 AM
What?! No Weinberg thread??

[WARNING: The first page of this thread contained a rather large (and quite informative) sub-discussion about Miaskovsky's symphonies, which I have excised and merged into the Miaskovsky thread. If one or two of the replies in this Weinberg thread seem a little bizarre, that may be because they refer to something that is now in the Miaskovsky thread (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1523.0.html). Sorry for the inconvenience, but I thought people looking for info about Miaskovsky should be able to find it in the composer's thread, and not be forced to look for it all over the place. Seemed only fair. 0:)]
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maciek on November 13, 2008, 02:41:14 AM
Quote from: http://www1.freewebs.com/black_arrow/
Why Weinberg?
Why not Vainberg?
Why not Wainberg?
Or Vajnberg?
Or Wajnberg?



The reason is very simple: Weinberg is correct, all other spellings are wrong! Weinberg grew up and spent his first twenty years in Poland, where the Latin alphabet is used, and he and his family spelt the name exactly this way. Its origin is German/Yiddish. Any other spelling in the Latin alphabet must thus be avoided!

I confess having a certain guilt myself, since I once accepted - without checking them - certain rumours that Weinberg himself preferred the spelling "Vainberg". I discovered my error after I had written the texts for half a dozen CDs in the large series of Olympia in London, and I wanted to change the spelling, but they refused. In fact I understand this, because it would have confused their customers if they had changed it in the middle of a series. Nevertheless the CDs have unfortunately contributed to the present Babylonic situation.

The variety of (wrong) spellings is due to the circumstance that various people believed that the original spelling of the name was the one of the Russian alphabet. They then transliterated the name into the Latin alphabet, according to various rules (an ironical detail being that Soviet scores -- of all! -- used the correct spelling Weinberg!). But now Weinberg is becoming increasingly accepted. The New Groves, the famous dictionary, used the English transliteration "Vaynberg" some years ago, but in the Internet edition they have now corrected this into Weinberg.

I am at present writing a biography in English which is scheduled to appear in 2005 at Toccata Press in London; there I of course am using the correct spelling Weinberg!

Per Skans Uppsala, Sweden


Now, this goes against the Wikipedia article (where Wajnberg is quoted as the original Polish spelling) and against my knowledge of Polish spelling mores of the time under discussion (names which would have been spelt with ein in Germany were spelt with ajn in Poland) but Per Skans had authority, so we should probably trust that he was saying this on solid evidence.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: springrite on November 13, 2008, 03:00:08 AM
Now, if Weinberg is considered a Polish composer, which he should be, then I have to add to the list of Polish composers I know. I have lots of Weinberg (spelled Veinberg on the Olympia CDs I have). I like almost everything I have of him, including symphonies and chamber music. For the moment my favorites are the chamber symphonies. That might change with my next listening.

I have heard/read about some of his other music unknown to me, including ballet music, and I would like to have more for sure.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on November 13, 2008, 05:03:10 AM
A very interesting composer. Symphony 5 is a masterpiece I think. The only work apart from Popov's First Symphony to rank alongside Shostakovich's 4th Symphony. There was a great recording with Kondrashin on Russian Disc but there is a very good one on Chandos. The Choral Symphony No 6 is deeply moving too. Per Skans sadly died before finishing his biography. David Fanning is apparently completing it.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on November 13, 2008, 05:41:45 AM
There was a great recording with Kondrashin on Russian Disc but there is a very good one on Chandos. 
I have them both. Have recently listened to the Chandos, fine sound but not the ultimate orchestra.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Guido on November 13, 2008, 06:19:12 AM
The opening of the cello concerto must surely rank as one of the most beautiful in all of music. How can something so simple sound so good?!  :D It's a very nice work in it's totality too, but the first movement is just a stunner. The later Fantasy for cello and orchestra, as well as the cello sonatas and solo cello pieces are not as immediately appealing to my ears. Been meaning to explore the symphonies... No.5 good to start with?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on November 13, 2008, 07:06:34 AM
I have them both. Have recently listened to the Chandos, fine sound but not the ultimate orchestra.

Yes, I agree.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on November 13, 2008, 07:07:19 AM
... No.5 good to start with?

Yes, absolutely.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Dundonnell on November 13, 2008, 08:55:41 AM
His(too scared to use a surname!) even numbered symphonies have been much more fortunate in being recorded than the odd numbered. We still are waiting for recordings of Nos. 1, 3, 8, 9, 11, 13 and 15.

The problem presumably is that of the symphonies which have been recorded only Nos. 6 and 18 are choral but of the others-

No.8: "Flowers of Poland" for tenor, boys' chorus and orchestra
No.9: "Everlasting Times" for narrator, chorus and orchestra
No.11: "Festive Symphony" for chorus and orchestra
No.15: "I believe in this Earth" for soprano, baritone, women's chorus and orchestra

Olympia did a grand job in making available superb performances of a considerable number of the symphonies and Chandos started a
series which I hope has not come to a stop!

I think that the earlier symphonies and the violin and cello concertos are indeed very fine works but the last few(Nos. 16, 17, 18 and 19) are harrowing works-impressive certainly but extremely grim.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Brewski on November 13, 2008, 10:03:53 AM
Just this week I discovered some of Weinberg's music in a concert with three substantial chamber works, and it they were all very impressive.  Tuesday night's program was:

Sonata for Clarinet and Piano, Op. 18 (1945)
From Zhukovsky's Lyrics, Op. 116, vocal cycle for bass and piano (1976)
Piano Quintet, Op. 18 (1944)


The concert was the third in a five-day survey called Music in Exile: Émigré Composers of the 1930s at the Museum of Jewish Heritage here, by the ARC Ensemble of Toronto.  Due to a schedule change, they played Weinberg's Piano Quintet on opening night as well.  Here (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/12/arts/music/12exil.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all) is a review from yesterday's New York Times

I loved the Clarinet Sonata, liked the song cycle, too, but the Piano Quintet is the real stunner.  I haven't heard a piano quintet this interesting since Schnittke's.  Definitely want to pick up the recording below, with the quintet and the sonata played by the same musicians (who were superb, by the way). 

--Bruce
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on November 14, 2008, 03:28:23 AM
His(too scared to use a surname!) even numbered symphonies have been much more fortunate in being recorded than the odd numbered. We still are waiting for recordings of Nos. 1, 3, 8, 9, 11, 13 and 15.

The problem presumably is that of the symphonies which have been recorded only Nos. 6 and 18 are choral but of the others-

No.8: "Flowers of Poland" for tenor, boys' chorus and orchestra
No.9: "Everlasting Times" for narrator, chorus and orchestra
No.11: "Festive Symphony" for chorus and orchestra
No.15: "I believe in this Earth" for soprano, baritone, women's chorus and orchestra

Olympia did a grand job in making available superb performances of a considerable number of the symphonies and Chandos started a
series which I hope has not come to a stop!

I think that the earlier symphonies and the violin and cello concertos are indeed very fine works but the last few(Nos. 16, 17, 18 and 19) are harrowing works-impressive certainly but extremely grim.

We need a new recording of No 6.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Dundonnell on November 14, 2008, 06:32:22 AM
We need a new recording of No 6.

Don't hold your breath for Chandos to record it! It is choral after all ;D

(Go on Chandos-prove me wrong ;D)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Todd on November 14, 2008, 10:40:03 AM
Anyone know his string quartets?  CPO recently released the second volume played by the Danel Quartet, who are really superb, so I'm thinking maybe I should investigate these . . .
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on November 14, 2008, 11:33:51 AM
Anyone know his string quartets?  CPO recently released the second volume played by the Danel Quartet, who are really superb, so I'm thinking maybe I should investigate these . . .
I have both. Vol 1 is a  favorite for disc of the year with me, after two playthroughs vol 2 doesn't seem quite as strong, but buy, buy, buy!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Bulldog on November 14, 2008, 11:40:42 AM
I have both. Vol 1 is a  favorite for disc of the year with me, after two playthroughs vol 2 doesn't seem quite as strong, but buy, buy, buy!

I also urge you to buy.  And don't forget that Delos recently issued a disc of his string quartets - nos. 11 and 13 along with the Op. 18 piano quintet.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: springrite on November 15, 2008, 04:48:42 PM
Anyone know his string quartets?  CPO recently released the second volume played by the Danel Quartet, who are really superb, so I'm thinking maybe I should investigate these . . .

Considering how stronly Shostakovich thought of these quartets (Demitri almost made it a "competition" when he wrote how he had just heard one of Weiberg's superb quartet premiered and "now he is one ahead of me and I must complete my current one (I think it was #10?"), you should definitely get them. I have 2 CDs worth of it and enjoy the works to varying degrees. The piano quartet is probably a stronger work, but the quartets are also quite strong.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on November 16, 2008, 01:39:27 AM
Apart from Symphony 5 and 6 my favourite work is the Piano Quintet Op 18; worthy to stand alongside that of his friend Shostakovich. Difficult to find as it was on Olympia. Maybe I'll pester Alto to reissue it.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Dundonnell on November 16, 2008, 06:56:57 AM
Apart from Symphony 5 and 6 my favourite work is the Piano Quintet Op 18; worthy to stand alongside that of his friend Shostakovich. Difficult to find as it was on Olympia. Maybe I'll pester Alto to reissue it.

And the symphonies? ;D I have all the Olympia releases myself but others would jump at the chance ;D
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on November 16, 2008, 11:02:34 PM
Apart from Symphony 5 and 6 my favourite work is the Piano Quintet Op 18; worthy to stand alongside that of his friend Shostakovich. Difficult to find as it was on Olympia. Maybe I'll pester Alto to reissue it.

There's a new recording on RCA:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61U6a5x%2BagL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Oops, bhodges already metioned it below.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on November 17, 2008, 02:43:36 AM
There's a new recording on RCA:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61U6a5x%2BagL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Oops, bhodges already metioned it below.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maciek on November 18, 2008, 12:34:53 PM
I wish I had some of those Olympia releases. I don't think I've ever seen them here, not even back in the days when there were lots of Olympia CDs around. Or else how come I haven't got any?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Dundonnell on November 19, 2008, 08:01:18 AM
According to David Fanning in this month's Gramophone magazine(received today) Weinberg did actually compose a 20th and a 21st symphony and left a 22nd unorchestrated. The composer was joking when he told an interviewer that he was using the appellation Chamber Symphony because he did not want to go on using high numbers after Symphony No. 19!

Will write more about the Olympia series later(still recovering from hospital surgery yesterday).

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Dundonnell on November 19, 2008, 10:33:11 AM
That is extremely interesting information, Jeffrey!

Although I missed out on the Olympia coupling of the Kabalevsky 3rd and 4th Symphonies(fortunately now replaced by the CPO set of all four!), I did manage to acquire Lev Knipper's 4th, all five of Vissarion Shebalin's symphonies, Gavril Popov's 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th and
Boris Tishchenko's 5th Symphony and Violin Concerto No.2

The orchestral Weinberg on Olympia are/were-

Symphony No.2 for string orchestra(1945-46) coupled with Chamber Symphony No.2 for string orchestra and timpani: Umea Symphony
    Orchestra/Thord Svedlund) (both recorded 1998) OCD 652(Vol. 16)

Symphony No.4(1961): Moscow Philharmonic Orchestra/Kirill Kondrashin(recorded 1974) coupled with Violin Concerto: Leonid Kogan with
    the same orchestra and conductor(recorded 1961) and the Rhapsody on Moldavian Themes: USSR Academic Symphony Orchestra/
    Yevgeny Svetlanov(recorded 1976) OCD 622(Vol. 10)

Symphony No.6(1963): Moscow School Boys Choir and Moscow Philharmonic Orchestra/Kirill Kondrashin(recorded 1974)coupled with
     Symphony No.10(1968): Moscow Chamber Orchestra/Rudolf Barshai(recorded 1970) OCD 471 (Vol. 1)

Symphony No. 7 for string orchestra and harpsichord(1964): Moscow Chamber Orchestra/Rudolf Barshai(recorded 1967), coupled with
     Symphony No.12(In memory of Dmitri Shostakovich)(1976): USSR TV and Radio Symphony Orchestra/Maxim Shostakovich(recorded
      1979) OCD 472 (Vol. 2)

Symphony No.14(1977)(recorded 1980) coupled with Symphony No. 18 "War-there is no word more cruel" for orchestra and chorus(1984)
    (recorded 1985): USSR Radio Symphony Orchestra/Vladimir Fedoseyev OCD 589 (Vol. 6)

Symphony No.17 "Memory"(1982) (recorded 1984) coupled with Symphonic Poem "The Banners of Peace"(recorded 1986): USSR Radio
     Symphony Orchestra/Vladimir Fedoseyev OCD 590 (Vol. 7)

Symphony No. 19 "The Bright May"(1985)(recorded 1986) coupled with Chamber Symphony No.3(recorded 1991): USSR Radio Symphony
     Orchestra/Vladimir Fedoseyev OCD 591 (Volume Eight)

Chamber Symphony No.1 for string orchestra(1986) coupled with Chamber Symphony No.4 for string orchestra and clarinet(1992): Umea
       Symphony Orchestra/Thord Svedlund (both recorded 1998) (Vol. 15). Alto has just reissued this disc.

I have all of these :)

In addition, Vol. 3 of the series included the Ballet Suites from "The Golden Key" while Vols. 4-5, 9, 11-14 consisted of chamber and instrumental music(sorry...too much to list here :()

That would be a tremendous amount for Alto to reissue-even if they could ;D
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maciek on November 19, 2008, 02:47:17 PM
Jeffrey, thanks for the Miaskovsky anecdote, depressing as it is. ;D And Colin, that list of yours will come in very handy, thank you too.

Well, one of the main reasons why I miss Olympia is not the Russian music (though I have a couple of those discs as well) but the Polish music. ;D Stuff like the Musica Antiqua Polonica series (I hope I'm not misremembering the name, can't find any disc at the moment). But most of all, the 19th century and CONTEMPORARY discs. Some of their Polish releases are absolutely priceless, in a musical sense - though the Polish music (luckily for me 0:)) does not fetch the same high prices as the Russian does. Still, these CDs are rather scarce and apart from the 15 or so I bought while the label was still alive, I've only been able to pick up 4 or 5. Living in a country with practically no used CD market and one not included into the Amazon Payments (Marketplace) system doesn't help either... :-\
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maciek on November 19, 2008, 03:24:52 PM
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but Toccata has released a disc of Weinberg songs (http://www.toccataclassics.com/cddetail.php?CN=TOCC0078) (volume one of a complete set!). Also available as a download from their site.

(http://www.toccataclassics.com/images/uploads/cds/thumbnails/TOCC-0078_225x0.jpg)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Dundonnell on November 19, 2008, 05:20:45 PM
I have just cottoned on the fact that these Olympia discs are selling for £30-70 or so on Amazon.

I am so glad that I bought them when I could ;D  Sorry!-this is no consolation to anybody else-they are not for sale ;D

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on November 19, 2008, 07:42:44 PM
Another recommendable disc was a recording of Weinberg's Cello Concerto on the Talent label:

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-25614289_ITM (ARG review)
http://www.tower.com/shostakovich-vainberg-levitine-cello-concerti-drobinsky-fuat-mansurov-cd/wapi/106559911

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on November 19, 2008, 07:46:14 PM
Symphony No.4(1961): Moscow Philharmonic Orchestra/Kirill Kondrashin(recorded 1974) coupled with Violin Concerto: Leonid Kogan with
    the same orchestra and conductor(recorded 1961) and the Rhapsody on Moldavian Themes: USSR Academic Symphony Orchestra/
    Yevgeny Svetlanov(recorded 1976) OCD 622(Vol. 10)

Symphony No.6(1963): Moscow School Boys Choir and Moscow Philharmonic Orchestra/Kirill Kondrashin(recorded 1974)coupled with
     Symphony No.10(1968): Moscow Chamber Orchestra/Rudolf Barshai(recorded 1970) OCD 471 (Vol. 1)

The 4 & 6 are now on a single Molodiya CD

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/7606733
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on November 19, 2008, 10:39:32 PM
Apart from Symphony 5 and 6 my favourite work is the Piano Quintet Op 18; worthy to stand alongside that of his friend Shostakovich. Difficult to find as it was on Olympia. Maybe I'll pester Alto to reissue it.

Melodiya has issued it: http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/3559020
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on November 20, 2008, 01:57:20 AM
Melodiya has issued it: http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/3559020

Thanks very much for this. I hope though that Alto may yet issue Weinberg's 6th Symphony which doesn't appear to be otherwise available.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on November 20, 2008, 02:02:57 AM
Just read Daverz's post. I am quite wrong. Weinberg's great 6th Symphony is on Melodiya. Good news.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: springrite on November 20, 2008, 02:09:21 AM
Of the symphonies I have (not counting the chamber symphonies), 6 and 10 are my favorites. I have only listened to the complete piano sonatas twice and did not leave with much of an impression, which I hope will come.

The comments on the solo cello works are right on. They surely do not appeal upon first or second hearing. But after 4 or 5 times, I am loving them right now.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on November 20, 2008, 02:11:43 AM
Does anyone know how I can find a list of CDs available on Melodiya? It is a rather elusive label.

Thank you
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Brewski on December 03, 2008, 08:47:03 AM
Here (http://www.musicweb-international.com/SandH/2008/Jul-Dec08/ARC1111.htm) is my write-up of a recent concert of Weinberg's music, and thanks again to those of you here who put him on my radar.  I have ordered the ARC Ensemble's disc (on RCA) with much of the same program, including the Piano Quintet.

--Bruce
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on December 03, 2008, 11:35:37 AM
Here (http://www.musicweb-international.com/SandH/2008/Jul-Dec08/ARC1111.htm) is my write-up of a recent concert of Weinberg's music, and thanks again to those of you here who put him on my radar.  I have ordered the ARC Ensemble's disc (on RCA) with much of the same program, including the Piano Quintet.

--Bruce


V informative review Bruce. I have just received the CD and your review has encouraged me to listen to it asap. I have the fine Olympia of the Piano Quintet. It is a great work.

Jeffrey
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Brewski on December 03, 2008, 11:37:20 AM

V informative review Bruce. I have just received the CD and your review has encouraged me to listen to it asap. I have the fine Olympia of the Piano Quintet. It is a great work.

Jeffrey

Thanks, Jeffrey!  And I appreciate knowing about the Olympia recording of the Quintet, since I'll probably be eager to hear several versions.  What a discovery!

--Bruce
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maciek on December 03, 2008, 12:51:22 PM
Thanks for the link, Bruce! Now looking forward to hearing the recording even more. ;D
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on January 01, 2009, 08:16:31 PM
With each listen, I'm getting to like Weinberg more and more.  One piece that I found due to my liking of Shostakovich, was the Solo Double Bass Sonata (Found it through Lemur music, which is an online store for bass players, by searching "Shostakovich" to see if someone transcribed anything of his for the bass, and his name came up, and I found and bought the Weinberg piece.) I don't think there is any recordings available.

But it's a very cool piece.  Last semester, I worked on the fourth and fifth movements of the piece.  It's more or less modeled after a baroque suite or sonata.  The fourth movement being a minuet and trio sort of thing, and the fifth movement being a sarabande.  The fifth movement was the harder one, because of the extreme shifts involved, and didn't perform it very well when I played it.  But it's a great piece of music.  I just wish there was a recording of it available.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: rubio on January 02, 2009, 03:08:09 PM
I consider trying Weinberg's Cello Concerto. I can see they have Rostropovich/Rozhdestvesnky (EMI) in the shop here. Does there exist any better performances of this concerto? Is it one of Weinberg's better works?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maciek on January 15, 2009, 10:08:40 AM
I really don't have enough overall knowledge of Weinberg to say if the piece is one of his better works but it's certainly very good, I would recommend it. I only know the Rostropovich - does anyone know if there are any other recording around? (Not that I feel the Rostropovich lacking in any department whatsoever.)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Dundonnell on January 15, 2009, 10:23:45 AM
I really don't have enough overall knowledge of Weinberg to say if the piece is one of his better works but it's certainly very good, I would recommend it. I only know the Rostropovich - does anyone know if there are any other recording around? (Not that I feel the Rostropovich lacking in any department whatsoever.)

Yes there is apparently-

http://home.wanadoo.nl/ovar/sovrev/vainberg/vb10071.htm
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maciek on January 15, 2009, 10:34:26 AM
Thanks.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on July 17, 2009, 06:27:52 PM
I didn't see that in June Alto released the 2nd symphony and 2nd Chamber Symphony by Weinberg:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61NlaR4O4vL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Does anyone have this?  If so, how is it?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on July 17, 2009, 11:56:17 PM
Yes there is apparently-

http://home.wanadoo.nl/ovar/sovrev/vainberg/vb10071.htm

I have this recording on a different label (Talent?) with a different coupling (Shostakovich CC1).  It is a good recording and quite good work.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on November 13, 2009, 05:38:29 PM
In case anyone is interested, on the 17th, CPO is releasing the 3rd volume of Weinberg's String Quartets with Quatuor Danel.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002O2MCL2/ref=pe_5080_13567560_snp_dp (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002O2MCL2/ref=pe_5080_13567560_snp_dp)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Guido on November 14, 2009, 04:29:29 AM
The Rostropovich recording of the cello concerto is infinitely better than the other one available, even if the sound is a little dated - it's still a ravishing account.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Harry on November 14, 2009, 04:41:53 AM
In case anyone is interested, on the 17th, CPO is releasing the 3rd volume of Weinberg's String Quartets with Quatuor Danel.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002O2MCL2/ref=pe_5080_13567560_snp_dp (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002O2MCL2/ref=pe_5080_13567560_snp_dp)

The SQ are not easy listening, its quite a ordeal to get through these depressions evoking music, at least for me. I am still trying to come over the first two volumes, so I am not all to sure that I will buy Volume III. Weinberg is even worse in creating depressions as Pettersson, no small fry either.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on November 15, 2009, 03:29:25 AM
Interesting coincidence, that this thread comes back up the day after I had my first experience of Weinberg, at a concert last night dedicated in memory of the violinist Leonid Kogan (& conducted by his son Pavel).

They played the Weinberg/ Wajnberg/ Вайнберг (whatever) Violin Concerto, with soloist Ilya Grubert. I liked it, without being blown away by it - a nice piece, somewhat similar to DSCH when in his "Jewish" mode.

Have to admit that the Mahler 7th which followed was the highlight, though.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: springrite on November 15, 2009, 04:43:13 AM
The SQ are not easy listening, its quite a ordeal to get through these depressions evoking music, at least for me. I am still trying to come over the first two volumes, so I am not all to sure that I will buy Volume III. Weinberg is even worse in creating depressions as Pettersson, no small fry either.

I wouldn't say Veinberg's music creats depression. It is more like personal solice in a depressive environment. It is certainly less depressing than Pettersson and Shostakovich. It is something people like me who lived through some of that period (cultural revolution, etc.) who can personally relate to this kind of expression. It is sometimes quite like some of my poetry in the early 80's.

I have a dozen or so Veinberg CDs, but I just got the one that I did not have -- the much talked about cello concerto in the Rostropovich Brilliant box. I will listen to it this week.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 07, 2010, 03:00:53 PM
Just wanted to join this thread - linked here by Maciek - thanks!  Dave  :)

Just acquired my first disc of this composer (post partly quoted from the 'listening thread' - comments below and anxious to obtain more!  :D

Quote
Weinberg, Mieczyslaw (1919-1996) - Concertos (cello, flute, & clarinet) - my first disc of this Soviet composer (apparently considered as a triumvirate w/ Prokofiev & Shosty) - not sure 'where' to go w/ him from here; he wrote about 2 dozen symphonies, 17 string quartets, and much more music!  CPO is putting out the SQs, but would like to see a 'box set' materialize?   ;D

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/WeinbergConcertos/782266471_q8wac-O.jpg)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on February 08, 2010, 12:17:04 AM
Just wanted to join this thread - linked here by Maciek - thanks!  Dave  :)

Just acquired my first disc of this composer (post partly quoted from the 'listening thread' - comments below and anxious to obtain more!  :D

Symphony 5 is the best symph IMHO, has echoes of Shostakovich Symphony No 4 - especially at the end - there is a good Chandos recording. The choral No 6 is very moving too, but only to be found on an old Olympia CD and difficult to find or incredibly expensive probably.

ps I was wrong No 6 is now on Melodiya:
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on August 16, 2010, 02:13:54 AM
The Rostropovich recording of the cello concerto is infinitely better than the other one available, even if the sound is a little dated - it's still a ravishing account.

Replying to an old post (is Guido still around?), but if the "other one" is the Drobinsky recording, I don't agree at all.  The klezmer aspects of the score come across much better in the Drobinsky recording.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Joaquimhock on August 18, 2010, 12:14:55 AM
Extract of Die Passagerien here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fs5_aDUWso
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on August 18, 2010, 07:58:59 PM
Extract of Die Passagerien here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fs5_aDUWso (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fs5_aDUWso)

Can't understand German, but it's still fascinating.  What did they say about the bit of cartoon they showed ("Vinni Puk" or something like that?)  Also, the Polish film of The Passenger looks like it pulls no punches.

More info on the opera here (http://www.peermusicclassical.com/composer/composerdetail.cfm?detail=weinbergPassenger), and the Polish film on VHS (http://www.amazon.com/Passenger-VHS-Aleksandra-Slaska/dp/6304517041).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Brahmsian on September 03, 2010, 11:23:48 AM
Just this week I discovered some of Weinberg's music in a concert with three substantial chamber works, and it they were all very impressive.  Tuesday night's program was:

Sonata for Clarinet and Piano, Op. 18 (1945)
From Zhukovsky's Lyrics, Op. 116, vocal cycle for bass and piano (1976)
Piano Quintet, Op. 18 (1944)


The concert was the third in a five-day survey called Music in Exile: Émigré Composers of the 1930s at the Museum of Jewish Heritage here, by the ARC Ensemble of Toronto.  Due to a schedule change, they played Weinberg's Piano Quintet on opening night as well.  Here (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/12/arts/music/12exil.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all) is a review from yesterday's New York Times

I loved the Clarinet Sonata, liked the song cycle, too, but the Piano Quintet is the real stunner.  I haven't heard a piano quintet this interesting since Schnittke's.  Definitely want to pick up the recording below, with the quintet and the sonata played by the same musicians (who were superb, by the way). 

--Bruce

Just listened to this CD today Bruce, which were both my introduction to the pieces and the composer (except the CD has the 6 Jewish songs after Shmuel Halkin, Op.17)

I was incredibly impressed, particularly by the Clarinet Sonata, Op.28 and the Piano Quintet, Op.18

Wonderful, and melodious.  I was very pleasantly surprised!  :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on September 04, 2010, 02:22:47 PM
Interesting review here  (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/opera/7926495/The-Passenger-The-Portrait-Bregenz-Festival-review.html) from the Bregenz Festival of a production of Weinberg's Holocaust opera The Passenger which apparently will be coming to London (and elsewhere) in 2012.  One to get on the mailing list for.
I hope a production comes to the US sometime in the future, would love to see the opera. 
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Guido on September 05, 2010, 01:20:48 PM
Replying to an old post (is Guido still around?), but if the "other one" is the Drobinsky recording, I don't agree at all.  The klezmer aspects of the score come across much better in the Drobinsky recording.

Can't remember which I heard - I think it wasn't that one, but the one mentioned above.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scarpia on November 13, 2010, 08:30:31 AM
Have been listening to this release containing Weinberg concerti from Chandos.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YdzB4mvuL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

First listened to the clarinet concerto (a favorite instrument for concerti) and found it interesting.  Knotty music, with string orchestra which sometimes echos the clarinet, and sometimes challenges it with gritty dissonant harmony.

The second piece I tried was the fantasy for cello and orchestra.  A wonder, lyrical piece overflowing with gorgeous melodies, sometimes with a hint of Klemzer music.  I would say it gives an impression of being a "concerto grosso" rather than a cello concerto, since various wind instruments emerge from the texture and take center stage for significant stretches of the music, while the string orchestra takes the role or orchestral accompaniment.  Absolutely wonderful music.

I have a few volumes of what appears to have been an enormous series of recordings of Weinberg (Vainberg) orchestra music.  It seems to have vanished from the surface of the earth without a trace.  A shame!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on January 27, 2011, 05:40:54 PM
I saw on Arkivmusic that a bluray disc of Weinberg's opera The Passenger was released in November.  I am looking for the DVD version from a store in the states, as we only have one blu ray player in the house.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: eyeresist on April 04, 2011, 05:10:41 PM
I saw on Arkivmusic that a bluray disc of Weinberg's opera The Passenger was released in November.  I am looking for the DVD version from a store in the states, as we only have one blu ray player in the house.
How many blu ray players do you need?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on April 04, 2011, 06:03:04 PM
I saw on Arkivmusic that a bluray disc of Weinberg's opera The Passenger was released in November.  I am looking for the DVD version from a store in the states, as we only have one blu ray player in the house.

MDT has the DVD.

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//NEOS51006.htm
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: nn-digger on April 05, 2011, 10:10:02 PM
Hi, all.  I really wonder that somebody in US and UK knows about such ruassian composer as Weinberg. Most people even in Russia don't know who he is.
 As for me, best of his is chamber symphonies, symphony No 5.

PS: sorry that I speak English bad.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on April 06, 2011, 01:40:25 PM
Hi, all.  I really wonder that somebody in US and UK knows about such ruassian composer as Weinberg. Most people even in Russia don't know who he is.
 As for me, best of his is chamber symphonies, symphony No 5.

PS: sorry that I speak English bad.

His Symphony No 5 is a great work, together with Popov's 1st Symphony it is the only work I know which can stand alongside Shostakovich's 4th Symphony.  Weinberg's 6th Symphony is very moving, with its children's choir and I have just discovered the wartime Symphony No 1, with its defiant ending - dedicated to the Red Army.  The Piano Quintet can stand alongside that of his friend Shostakovich.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on April 06, 2011, 02:20:21 PM
How many blu ray players do you need?
It's not that there is only one blu ray, but more of where it is located.  I don't spend much time in my parents room.  Having a DVD version would be more convenient. 
MDT has the DVD.

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//NEOS51006.htm (http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//NEOS51006.htm)
Is that region free?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on April 07, 2011, 03:39:06 PM
It's not that there is only one blu ray, but more of where it is located.  I don't spend much time in my parents room.  Having a DVD version would be more convenient.  Is that region free?

Opera DVDs tend to be region free, but it would be in the PAL format, so you need a player that converts PAL to NTSC if you have an NTSC TV.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on April 26, 2011, 11:45:46 AM
Chandos is releasing a CD containing Weinberg's 3rd symphony, and the Golden Key Suite #4 with the Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra conducted by Thord Svundland on May 31, for anyone interested. 
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Lethevich on April 26, 2011, 11:49:48 AM
I pray that Chandos aren't being too optimistic in spreading the symphonies so thinly across each volume - I will just die if this cycle peters out with only half of them recorded, but enough disc space to have recorded most.

Still, putting aside those worries, it will be nice to discover some lighter Weinberg fare - I know none of his orchestral music outside of the symphonies and concertos - thanks for the notification :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on April 26, 2011, 12:00:28 PM
I pray that Chandos aren't being too optimistic in spreading the symphonies so thinly across each volume - I will just die if this cycle peters out with only half of them recorded, but enough disc space to have recorded most.

Still, putting aside those worries, it will be nice to discover some lighter Weinberg fare - I know none of his orchestral music outside of the symphonies and concertos - thanks for the notification :)
I have found some old olympia recordings online, so I was able to get some other symphonies besides the ones Chandos released.  But I agree, I hope Chandos continues the cycle, and other lighter pieces.

With that said, there other CDs I have had my eye on for a while, including the 4 solo viola Sonata's the 1st, 2nd and 5th Violin Sonatas (I already have 3 and 4).  I am a big Weinberg fan, and excited for the next CD  8)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scarpia on April 26, 2011, 02:46:42 PM
Chandos is releasing a CD containing Weinberg's 3rd symphony, and the Golden Key Suite #4 with the Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra conducted by Thord Svundland on May 31, for anyone interested.

Full price for a release of 49 minutes, with one symphony and a crappy suite.  I have all of the previous Chandos Weinberg releases, but not this one. 
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scarpia on April 26, 2011, 02:56:51 PM
I have found some old olympia recordings online, so I was able to get some other symphonies besides the ones Chandos released.  But I agree, I hope Chandos continues the cycle, and other lighter pieces.

My interest in "Vainberg" came from those Olympia releases.  I wish I had known they would disappear so fast, I would have gotten more of them.  The Chandos series seems to have gone off the rails and I'm afraid we may be left without a good option for this composer.


Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Lethevich on April 26, 2011, 03:01:07 PM
Full price for a release of 49 minutes

Seriously? I agree, that is not acceptable nowadays. Why should I pay for 70% of the music I can get from another disc?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scarpia on April 26, 2011, 03:03:11 PM
Seriously? I agree, that is not acceptable nowadays. Why should I pay for 70% of the music I can get from another disc?

Yes, one 32 minutes symphony and one 17 minute obscure ballet suite.  I've already sent them a cranky e-mail.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Lethevich on April 26, 2011, 03:14:02 PM
I wish I had the guts to do things like that :)

This is more or less my scale:

(http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/5007/scalei.png)

It's about the 55 min mark that it becomes acceptable, anything around 70 and I can appreciate that the label made an effort. I can imagine a label owner seeing this and raging, but with a very limited income I have to get the best value I can and runtime is a consideration in my purchasing decisions.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scarpia on April 26, 2011, 03:16:21 PM
I wish I had the guts to do things like that :)

This is more or less my scale:

(http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/5007/scalei.png)

It's about the 55 min mark that it becomes acceptable, anything around 70 and I can appreciate that the label made an effort. I can imagine a label owner seeing this and raging, but with a very limited income I have to get the best value I can and runtime is a consideration in my purchasing decisions.

As far as I am concerned it is a 32 minute disc (I'm not interested in "Suite No 4" from a ballet I never heard of). 

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on April 26, 2011, 03:22:12 PM
As far as I am concerned it is a 32 minute disc (I'm not interested in "Suite No 4" from a ballet I never heard of).
I would be interested in the Suite if it wasn't nearly a third of the CD.  That's a shame, too bad they couldn't couple it with a more substantial piece.  I guess I'll have to find other options....I may end up buying it someday used for a decent price. 
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scarpia on April 26, 2011, 03:24:43 PM
I would be interested in the Suite if it wasn't nearly a third of the CD.  That's a shame, too bad they couldn't couple it with a more substantial piece.  I guess I'll have to find other options....I may end up buying it someday used for a decent price.

If no one buys it you can't find it used.  I'll be looking for it as an overstock at Berkshire.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Lethevich on April 26, 2011, 03:26:12 PM
@Scarpia: So mean, I'm sure the ballet is fine :)

In related news, I've been playing this (78 minute long ;)) disc for the second time today:



The two numbered sonatas for violin and piano are both gorgeous - no real angst or darkness, just great music. The solo sonata is somewhat more wiry and I find it hard going on my initial listens but it exhibits such craft. It's impressive that despite being quite a prolific writer, Weinberg didn't spread his inspiration too thinly.

The performances are excellent btw, and recorded with great clarity.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on April 26, 2011, 03:31:28 PM
If no one buys it you can't find it used.  I'll be looking for it as an overstock at Berkshire.
I'm sure some people will buy it, at least eventually.  Then I am also sure it will eventually be available used via the Amazon marketplace.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scarpia on April 26, 2011, 03:35:28 PM
I'm sure some people will buy it, at least eventually.  Then I am also sure it will eventually be available used via the Amazon marketplace.

Yes, but it is a matter of supply and demand.  If the CD is issued by the BMG record club they will go for $1.50 on marketplace.  If it is a failed release that Chandos sends to the grinder to make room in their warehouse, then it may turn into one of those elusive ones you can never find.  I think it will be a big success on the torrents.   ;D
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on April 26, 2011, 04:39:47 PM
My interest in "Vainberg" came from those Olympia releases.  I wish I had known they would disappear so fast, I would have gotten more of them.  The Chandos series seems to have gone off the rails and I'm afraid we may be left without a good option for this composer.

If you Google "54ajax", you'll find some of these available as lossless downloads.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on April 26, 2011, 09:31:40 PM
I've been playing the two discs of solo cello music on Naxos repeatedly lately, and very fine music (and performances) it is.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on April 27, 2011, 03:31:37 AM
Weinberg's Symphony No 1 has been a revelation to me - one of my favourite discs of this year along with Brian's 10th Symphony and Bate's Symphony No 4.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on April 27, 2011, 03:44:01 AM
Weinberg's Symphony No 1 has been a revelation to me - one of my favourite discs of this year along with Brian's 10th Symphony and Bate's Symphony No 4.
Yes, all discs I have bought but only listened superficially to. Thanks for reminding me.   >:(
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Brahmsian on April 27, 2011, 05:00:43 AM
I wish I had the guts to do things like that :)

This is more or less my scale:

(http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/5007/scalei.png)

It's about the 55 min mark that it becomes acceptable, anything around 70 and I can appreciate that the label made an effort. I can imagine a label owner seeing this and raging, but with a very limited income I have to get the best value I can and runtime is a consideration in my purchasing decisions.

I'm always a little disappointed if a disc is under 70 minutes.  Even at 69 minutes, they could put a 10 minute overture or something??  ;D  I always like it when I get a CD that is slightly over 80 minutes, I always feel like I'm getting a bonus!  :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on April 27, 2011, 05:24:21 AM
Well try to be calm and maintain a larger picture. Recordings have never - ever - been as cheap as they are today, and with companies putting out fine recordings of very worthwhile repertoire never before recorded, recordings which they probably never will recoup their investments in - I think you all should be grateful to get them at all.

Reissues of standard repertoire having been through the reissue cycle several times already are quite another matter and should never be under 65-70 minutes at the very minimum.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scarpia on April 27, 2011, 07:36:46 AM
Well try to be calm and maintain a larger picture. Recordings have never - ever - been as cheap as they are today, and with companies putting out fine recordings of very worthwhile repertoire never before recorded, recordings which they probably never will recoup their investments in - I think you all should be grateful to get them at all.

Reissues of standard repertoire having been through the reissue cycle several times already are quite another matter and should never be under 65-70 minutes at the very minimum.

Obviously length of program is not the most important factor, and I don't have the idea that they are obligated to fill the disc to the 80 minute capacity.  However, I am interested in symphonies and chamber symphonies, and consider Suite No 4 from a ballet I've never heard of to be of little interest.  So effectively it is a 30 minute disc, from my point of view. 

I'd just like to know what they're thinking in the Chandos A&R department.   

"How will we make the public go crazy for this disc by 'what's-his-name' the guy with two different names depend on which transliteration you use, "Vainberg," no that's what the other label calls him.   I've got it, let's spread out the music over lots and lots of discs, maybe just 30 minutes per disc, then we can find some random stuff to get it up above 45 minutes.  They'll go crazy for that, afterall, the entire world is just waiting for more Vainberg Weinberg recordings and there are so few other recordings they can spend their money on!"

In any case, I will get the disc when I find myself in a position that there is no other, more attractive disc available.  I doubt I'll live that long.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 08, 2011, 11:56:53 AM
@Scarpia: So mean, I'm sure the ballet is fine :)

In related news, I've been playing this (78 minute long ;)) disc for the second time today:



The two numbered sonatas for violin and piano are both gorgeous - no real angst or darkness, just great music. The solo sonata is somewhat more wiry and I find it hard going on my initial listens but it exhibits such craft. It's impressive that despite being quite a prolific writer, Weinberg didn't spread his inspiration too thinly.

The performances are excellent btw, and recorded with great clarity.

And in fact I'm on the second go-round with it myself, and I very much agree with your comments. I don't know if this has been brought up earlier in this thread so at risk of repeating someone else's ideas I will say that as a devoted Bloch fan, this disk is right in my sweet spot stylistically. If I had got it without a cover, so to speak, and you said it was some new Bloch works on first release, I would have bought that for a dollar. :)

8)

----------------
Now playing:
Yuri Kalnits (Violin) / Michael Csanyi- Wills (Piano) - Weinberg Op 46 Sonatina for Violin & Piano 2nd mvmt - Lento - Allegro - Tempo Primo
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Brian on May 08, 2011, 12:06:24 PM
And in fact I'm on the second go-round with it myself, and I very much agree with your comments. I don't know if this has been brought up earlier in this thread so at risk of repeating someone else's ideas I will say that as a devoted Bloch fan, this disk is right in my sweet spot stylistically. If I had got it without a cover, so to speak, and you said it was some new Bloch works on first release, I would have bought that for a dollar. :)

I haven't heard the violin sonatas (though now I want to), but I have noticed that Weinberg's solo instrumental music is more "wiry" (Sara's word) or more astringent than his not-solo music. The cello preludes and suites, for example, are pretty stern stuff, in the real Soviet Repressed vein, whereas the cello concerto is lyrical and effusive and kind of heartmending. I wonder if something about the solitary musical instrument made him think of loneliness - sort of an interesting philosophy, to write for a "lonely" performer in that double-meaning.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 08, 2011, 12:13:41 PM
I haven't heard the violin sonatas (though now I want to), but I have noticed that Weinberg's solo instrumental music is more "wiry" (Sara's word) or more astringent than his not-solo music. The cello preludes and suites, for example, are pretty stern stuff, in the real Soviet Repressed vein, whereas the cello concerto is lyrical and effusive and kind of heartmending. I wonder if something about the solitary musical instrument made him think of loneliness - sort of an interesting philosophy, to write for a "lonely" performer in that double-meaning.

Yeah, Bloch does that too. Look at his Suite for Cello & Orchestra ( 'Schelomo' ) and it is lushly lyrical. compare to any of his chamber works (not solo, I don't have any but very few players) like his string quartets for example and they are sharp as a knife. I haven't heard any of Weinberg's orchestral stuff yet for comparison (and probably won't, not my thing) but I suspect the same would hold true.   :)

8)
----------------
Now playing:
Yuri Kalnits (Violin) - Weinberg Op 82 Sonata #1 for Violin Solo 3rd mvmt - Allegretto
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on May 08, 2011, 12:17:31 PM
Weinberg's Piano Quintet is worthy to stand alongside that of his friend Shostakovich as well as the ones by Bloch (No 1) and Schnittke - all of which I have the highest opinion of.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Gurn Blanston on May 08, 2011, 12:22:41 PM
Weinberg's Piano Quintet is worthy to stand alongside that of his friend Shostakovich as well as the ones by Bloch (No 1) and Schnittke - all of which I have the highest opinion of.

Thanks, that's high praise. I'll check it out. :)

8)

----------------
Now playing:
Yuri Kalnits (Violin) - Weinberg Op 82 Sonata #1 for Violin Solo 5th mvmt - Presto
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Brian on May 08, 2011, 12:38:04 PM
Weinberg's Piano Quintet is worthy to stand alongside that of his friend Shostakovich as well as the ones by Bloch (No 1) and Schnittke - all of which I have the highest opinion of.

Ooh! I want to second this. And the Weinberg PQ shows some pretty surprising non-classical influences, too.

Gurn, thanks for the comments on Bloch!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: eyeresist on May 08, 2011, 04:30:26 PM
Ooh! I want to second this. And the Weinberg PQ shows some pretty surprising non-classical influences, too.

Is that code for Jazz?
 
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on August 02, 2011, 02:18:12 AM
I have just discovered Weinberg's endearing, approachable and eloquent Symphony No 3 (Chandos) - written in 1949-50 and revised in 1959. It was written in the aftermath of Zhdanov's denunciation of the leading soviet composers (including Weinberg himself). As in Miaskovsky's underrated 26th Symphony (I mustn't turn this into a Miaskovsky thread, or Maciek will get cross, excise the thread and exile me to Siberia  ;D) Weinberg responds to the demands of Socialist Realism without compromising his integrity.  The result is a very tuneful, melodic and partly folk-song inspired work of considerable eloquence.  I have played it repeatedly and find it very moving.  The CD is not great value at under 50 minutes - but there are good notes and nice to see Weinberg smiling for once in a charming photo of him playing with a dog at a composer's retreat.  I can understand why Shostakovich thought so highly of Weinberg.

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Brian on August 02, 2011, 02:20:30 AM
Is that code for Jazz?

Sorry for the belated answer: yes. :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on August 25, 2011, 01:28:15 AM
Seems there is to be a Weinberg edition on NEOS:

(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/NEOS11125.jpg)

2 volumes recently issued (check mdt sept prereleases)

All of the works, including symphonies, solo concertos, chamber music and his Requiem were performed at the Bregenz Festival in 2010 and recorded, so are available for this edition.

 

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on September 21, 2011, 02:17:00 PM
Seems there is to be a Weinberg edition on NEOS:

(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/NEOS11125.jpg)

2 volumes recently issued (check mdt sept prereleases)

All of the works, including symphonies, solo concertos, chamber music and his Requiem were performed at the Bregenz Festival in 2010 and recorded, so are available for this edition.
a 3rd was recently released with the 17th symphony was recently.

Also, another volume of the Quatoar Danel cycle of the String Quartets is going to be released soon. 

I know what my next purchase is going to be....)

(Also looking forward to getting the opera The Passenger)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Dundonnell on September 21, 2011, 02:50:49 PM
So it looks as though Fedoseyev is re-recording the symphonies, many of which were released by Olympia-before its sad demise-in versions with the USSR Radio Symphony Orchestra. These new versions are with the Vienna Symphony Orchestra it seems.

The difficulty may be with those which were not recorded or at least released in the West. Symphony No. 13 is purely orchestral as, I think, is the 'Kaddish' (No.20?) but the others are-

 No. 8 "Flowers of Poland" for tenor, chorus and orchestra
 No.9 "Everlasting Times" for narrator, chorus and orchestra
 No.11 "Festive Symphony" for chorus and orchestra
 No.15 "I believe in this earth" for soprano, baritone, chorus and orchestra

 

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Dundonnell on September 21, 2011, 03:26:40 PM
........or maybe not ;D

I see from the MDT October Pre-Release listings that the Requiem has also been recorded in Vienna :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Lethevich on September 21, 2011, 04:00:49 PM
It's so nice that this kind of music is now being made available in acceptable sounding recordings. As I didn't grow up with the Melodiya/Olympia recordings, they've never been all that satisfactory for me :\
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on September 21, 2011, 10:09:20 PM
a 3rd was recently released with the 17th symphony was recently.

Also, another volume of the Quatoar Danel cycle of the String Quartets is going to be released soon. 

I know what my next purchase is going to be....)

(Also looking forward to getting the opera The Passenger)
There's 3 new volumes in the October prerelease lists on mdt.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 27, 2011, 07:47:24 PM
I've been reading off and on about Weinberg for a few years, but tonight I finally took the plunge on some recordings of his music. I bought these:

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B004SVNIGK.01.L.jpg) (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/ B003EN2S1Y.01.L.jpg)

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/ B0018OKH0U.01.L.jpg) (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/ B0021UHX6Q.01.L.jpg)

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/ B001CINTEI.01.L.jpg) (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/ B0000DJEM3.01.L.jpg)

I can't wait to dig into this composer's music, especially after reading his connections and friendship with Shostakovich.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on September 29, 2011, 04:06:22 PM
I just watched The Passenger.  I am not sure what to say, it was an extremely good production and performance.  I am almost at a loss for words, mainly due to the subject matter.  It's not an opera I can watch often, just due to the story, but I think it was well conceived, and well executed. 

One thing I loved about the opera was how Weinberg used the Bach Chaconne from the 2nd violin partita at the end, how it went from the solo violin to the violin section, then went into the final chorus
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on December 07, 2011, 09:36:52 AM


Ionarts-at-Large: Weinberg Lured Me to the Castle

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/12/ionarts-at-large-weinberg-lured-me-to.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/12/ionarts-at-large-weinberg-lured-me-to.html)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on December 10, 2011, 08:02:25 AM


Michelle Breedt on “Lisa” from Mieczysław Weinberg's “The Passenger”

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/12/michelle-breedt-on-lisa-from-mieczysaw.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/12/michelle-breedt-on-lisa-from-mieczysaw.html)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 10, 2011, 08:16:08 AM
I've been reading off and on about Weinberg for a few years, but tonight I finally took the plunge on some recordings of his music. I bought these:

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B004SVNIGK.01.L.jpg) (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/ B003EN2S1Y.01.L.jpg)

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/ B0018OKH0U.01.L.jpg) (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/ B0021UHX6Q.01.L.jpg)

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/ B001CINTEI.01.L.jpg) (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/ B0000DJEM3.01.L.jpg)

I can't wait to dig into this composer's music, especially after reading his connections and friendship with Shostakovich.
Hopefully MI,you will enlighten us on how these recordings compare. I remember you're recent comments about the naxos Glazunov symphonies. I ignored you're advice & bought two of the cds. Dutiful,serviceable would be polite!!!! :o No fire!)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on December 10, 2011, 09:18:42 PM
Hopefully MI,you will enlighten us on how these recordings compare. I remember you're recent comments about the naxos Glazunov symphonies. I ignored you're advice & bought two of the cds. Dutiful,serviceable would be polite!!!! :o No fire!)
i'm not MI, but the Concerto's disc was one of my first exposure to the composer, and is still a favorite to this day.  Very fine music, nicely recorded too.  The Symphonies 1&7 received a good performance, I thought.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: cilgwyn on December 14, 2011, 07:50:19 AM
Thank you for you're reply. I'm going to have to put that cd on my list.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Brian on December 14, 2011, 10:23:13 PM
Thank you for you're reply. I'm going to have to put that cd on my list.

I'll agree with Paul, the concertos are a superb introduction to Weinberg's orchestral art. I only wish the amazing cello concerto were more widely available - see comments (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,9883.msg246870.html#msg246870) earlier in this thread (that post is how I learned of the piece); the best (only available?) recording is Rostropovich on Brilliant Classics' "Historic Russian Archives".
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on January 31, 2012, 02:17:41 AM



Dip Your Ears, No. 112
(MIECZYSŁAW WEINBERG, REQUIEM)
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/01/dip-your-ears-no-112.html
 (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/01/dip-your-ears-no-112.html)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on February 25, 2012, 03:04:05 PM
In Late March, the Grand Piano Label (Assume they are new...never heard them before) are releasing a disc with 3 of Piano Sonatas.  Being someone who enjoys Weinberg's Viola, Violin, and Bass Sonatas....I'm very much interested in the new disc.

Allison Brewster Franzetti is the pianist.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on February 26, 2012, 02:35:04 AM
In Late March, the Grand Piano Label (Assume they are new...never heard them before) are releasing a disc with 3 of Piano Sonatas.  Being someone who enjoys Weinberg's Viola, Violin, and Bass Sonatas....I'm very much interested in the new disc.

Allison Brewster Franzetti is the pianist.
It's a Klaus Heymann project (Naxos) - obviously they want to sell some discs at full price :D. The label is also starting a Raff and Saint-Saens complete piano music series.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg's Shack of Sorrow (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on February 26, 2012, 05:54:34 AM


Dip Your Ears, No. 113
(MIECZYSŁAW WEINBERG, Symphony No.17)
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/02/dip-your-ears-no-113.html

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B005KQVDEG.01.L.jpg)
 (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/02/dip-your-ears-no-113.html)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on April 16, 2012, 12:05:53 AM
Just listened to the new Naxos version of Weinberg's 6th Symphony (for orchestra with boys' choir). It is a hauntinly poignant work with an incredibly touching last movement.  It is from 1963 and is rather in the spirit of Shostakovich's 13th Symphony (I actually prefer the Weinberg work). Shostakovich apparently thought very highly of the work too and was a great friend of Weinberg's.  Maybe the performance has less intensity than the classic Kondrashin but it is still a fine and inexpensive introduction to the work.  Of the symphonies I know it ranks with No 5 as the greatest (1 and 3 are my other favourites). As the blurb says 'Scored for very large orchestra and children's choir, Symphony No. 6 is a work of huge expression, anguished and dynamic, encompassing lament, circus gallops, burlesque, and a cataclysmic and heart-rending slow movement

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Drasko on April 16, 2012, 12:27:36 AM
St Petersburg State Symphony Orchestra? Is that the same band Alexander Titov conducts on those Northern Flowers releases of wartime music? A third rate orchestra on a good day (I once heard them live on a bad one, [shudders]) and they seem to be recording left and right. Are they so much cheaper than St Petersburg Philharmonic, or Moscow Philharmonic who these days record very little or almost nothing.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on April 16, 2012, 04:47:46 AM
St Petersburg State Symphony Orchestra? Is that the same band Alexander Titov conducts on those Northern Flowers releases of wartime music? A third rate orchestra on a good day (I once heard them live on a bad one, [shudders]) and they seem to be recording left and right. Are they so much cheaper than St Petersburg Philharmonic, or Moscow Philharmonic who these days record very little or almost nothing.

Yes, the same one. And yes, they're cheap... but apparently have come quite some way, because they do a very creditable job under (formerly?) Baltimore-based oboist Vladimir Lande, who has been working on his second leg as a conductor for at least six years.

I prefer the Fedoseyev recording on NEOS (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/search/label/Mieczys%C5%82aw%20Weinberg (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/search/label/Mieczys%C5%82aw%20Weinberg)), but your understandable trepidations don't seem to materialize on this particular disc. Fortunately.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on September 15, 2012, 11:46:31 AM
I like the Naxos 6th. And there a new one on the way:

(http://media.mdt.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/8/5/8572752.jpg)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on December 23, 2012, 01:55:44 AM
For February release on Naxos:

Mieczyslaw Weinberg Symphonies n°8, op.83 "Polish Flowers" (no picture as of yet).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Brian on December 23, 2012, 07:25:46 PM
For February release on Naxos:

Mieczyslaw Weinberg Symphonies n°8, op.83 "Polish Flowers" (no picture as of yet).
Where do you get a peek at releases that early on? I believe the 8th is being recorded by Antoni Wit with the Warsaw Philharmonic, which would fit with the "Polish" subtitle of the piece.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on December 23, 2012, 07:28:20 PM
Where do you get a peek at releases that early on? I believe the 8th is being recorded by Antoni Wit with the Warsaw Philharmonic, which would fit with the "Polish" subtitle of the piece.

Perhaps he knows someone working on the inside?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on December 24, 2012, 12:40:54 AM
Where do you get a peek at releases that early on? I believe the 8th is being recorded by Antoni Wit with the Warsaw Philharmonic, which would fit with the "Polish" subtitle of the piece.
It's by them, and it's listed on abeillemusic as a new release for release mid-February (along with some other interesting stuff (Hasse's Didone Abbandonata, piano music by Alexander Goehr, a 3 CD Morton Gold box etc).

http://www.abeillemusique.com/result.php?page=1&label=322 (http://www.abeillemusique.com/result.php?page=1&label=322)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on July 26, 2013, 03:12:14 AM



Mieczysław Weinberg’s Idiot
Awe-inspiring Masterpiece Unearthed in Mannheim

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-S_jm2ylAgk4/UfE5YvFQCbI/AAAAAAAAGsU/PsL9KAb29uY/s1600/IDIOT_Mannheim_Mysh_Rogo_train_HansJorg-Michel_Laurson_600.jpg)

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/07/mieczysaw-weinbergs-idiot-awe-inspiring.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/07/mieczysaw-weinbergs-idiot-awe-inspiring.html)



Through Labor and Love: Weinberg, War and Persecution
Interview with Julia Rebekka Adler

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-luBXy1sJzGg/Ue0TH0ptl4I/AAAAAAAAGqs/BrwUD3smS5Y/s1600/Mieczyslaw+_Weinberg_laurson_600.jpg)

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/07/through-labor-and-love-weinberg-war-and.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/07/through-labor-and-love-weinberg-war-and.html)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 26, 2013, 06:34:53 PM
Just listened to the new Naxos version of Weinberg's 6th Symphony (for orchestra with boys' choir). It is a hauntinly poignant work with an incredibly touching last movement.  It is from 1963 and is rather in the spirit of Shostakovich's 13th Symphony (I actually prefer the Weinberg work). Shostakovich apparently thought very highly of the work too and was a great friend of Weinberg's.  Maybe the performance has less intensity than the classic Kondrashin but it is still a fine and inexpensive introduction to the work.  Of the symphonies I know it ranks with No 5 as the greatest (1 and 3 are my other favourites). As the blurb says 'Scored for very large orchestra and children's choir, Symphony No. 6 is a work of huge expression, anguished and dynamic, encompassing lament, circus gallops, burlesque, and a cataclysmic and heart-rending slow movement



Sorry I'm so late to this post, Jeffrey. :-[ Yes, this performance of Weinberg's Symphony No. 6 is very fine. I've listened to it many times (bought it on release day in the US). I like the other work a lot too (Rhapsody on Moldavian Themes). Weinberg's musical language is so close to Shostakovich's that on most occasions I opt for Shostakovich instead since I think he was the leading Soviet composer of his time. To say Weinberg was influenced by Shostakovich would be an understatement.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on July 27, 2013, 12:15:24 AM
Sorry I'm so late to this post, Jeffrey. :-[ Yes, this performance of Weinberg's Symphony No. 6 is very fine. I've listened to it many times (bought it on release day in the US). I like the other work a lot too (Rhapsody on Moldavian Themes). Weinberg's musical language is so close to Shostakovich's that on most occasions I opt for Shostakovich instead since I think he was the leading Soviet composer of his time. To say Weinberg was influenced by Shostakovich would be an understatement.

Am pleased you liked Weinberg's 6th Symphony John. No 5 remains my favourite but I am discovering the other symphonies with much pleasure. I also like the Piano Quintet - which also shows the influence of Shostakovich but is a powerful work in its own right.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on July 27, 2013, 06:03:33 AM
Am pleased you liked Weinberg's 6th Symphony John. No 5 remains my favourite but I am discovering the other symphonies with much pleasure. I also like the Piano Quintet - which also shows the influence of Shostakovich but is a powerful work in its own right.
It's hard not to find any influence of Shostakovich in the following generation, perhaps not to the extent of Weinberg (which shouldn't be held against him nor should it make him a 'lesser' composer). 

And MI:  "I think he [Shostakovich] was the leading Soviet composer of his time."  Talk about an understatement of the century :P

Speaking of "The Idiot", is a recording of it planned?  I would love the get that and The Portrait into my library....CD library or Blue Ray/DVD library.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on July 27, 2013, 07:46:01 AM
It's hard not to find any influence of Shostakovich in the following generation, perhaps not to the extent of Weinberg (which shouldn't be held against him nor should it make him a 'lesser' composer). 

And MI:  "I think he [Shostakovich] was the leading Soviet composer of his time."  Talk about an understatement of the century :P

Speaking of "The Idiot", is a recording of it planned?  I would love the get that and The Portrait into my library....CD library or Blue Ray/DVD library.

The performance of The Portrait in Bregenz was rubbish. Glad there's no recording of that.
As per recording of the Idiot... I'm trying to get something going that one of the outstanding performances next year might get recorded. Fundraising is an issue, as you can probably imagine.

P.S. there's also a lot of Weinberg in DSCH. Their relationship was not in the least a one-way street.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: springrite on July 27, 2013, 07:50:57 AM


P.S. there's also a lot of Weinberg in DSCH. Their relationship was not in the least a one-way street.

Thanks for making this very important point!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on July 27, 2013, 08:22:42 AM
The performance of The Portrait in Bregenz was rubbish. Glad there's no recording of that.
As per recording of the Idiot... I'm trying to get something going that one of the outstanding performances next year might get recorded. Fundraising is an issue, as you can probably imagine.

P.S. there's also a lot of Weinberg in DSCH. Their relationship was not in the least a one-way street.

I was thinking the same exact thing......as I was on the elliptical.  Not surprising, due to how much the two composers worked together.

Didn't an English Opera company (English National Opera?) do a production?  If so, was it the same as the Bregenz production?  It's a shame, because I enjoy Bregenz's production of The Passenger
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on July 27, 2013, 08:38:17 AM
I was thinking the same exact thing......as I was on the elliptical.  Not surprising, due to how much the two composers worked together.

Didn't an English Opera company (English National Opera?) do a production?  If so, was it the same as the Bregenz production?  It's a shame, because I enjoy Bregenz's production of The Passenger

Oh, yes... the Bregenz Passenger was amazing. I had tickets for the performance which I had to return when I realized I had too much on my plate that year in S'burg. Bummer.
But The Portrait was high=school theater, compared to it... in the small house... just crap, really, unworthy of Weinberg's music. The Idiot, however, is every bit as good or better than the Passenger, in every way. Except perhaps that the Passenger has the more editor-friendly subject...
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on July 27, 2013, 11:08:08 PM
Thanks for making this very important point!

Yes, I agree. DSCH had a very high opinion of Weinberg's music.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 23, 2013, 05:08:41 AM



Mieczysław Weinberg’s Idiot
Awe-inspiring Masterpiece Unearthed in Mannheim

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-S_jm2ylAgk4/UfE5YvFQCbI/AAAAAAAAGsU/PsL9KAb29uY/s1600/IDIOT_Mannheim_Mysh_Rogo_train_HansJorg-Michel_Laurson_600.jpg)

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/07/mieczysaw-weinbergs-idiot-awe-inspiring.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/07/mieczysaw-weinbergs-idiot-awe-inspiring.html)

Zowie.  Color me warmly interested.

And I am sampling the Danel Quartet in the, well, quartets.  Delicious work!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 23, 2013, 09:19:54 AM
Gosh, and I'm sampling the late symphonies. I think I'm staring at the rabbit-hole here . . . .
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on September 23, 2013, 09:36:19 AM
Gosh, and I'm sampling the late symphonies. I think I'm staring at the rabbit-hole here . . . .
You should try the piano Music.  ;) Perhaps there could be a party in the hole?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on September 23, 2013, 09:44:16 AM
You should try the piano Music.  ;) Perhaps there could be a party in the hole?

Yes... but not the deadly boring (well, bland, in any case) recordings on Grand Piano. The re-issues from Olympia on Divine Art are sooo much better (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008TW0DQ2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B008TW0DQ2&linkCode=as2&tag=goodmusicguide-20).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on September 23, 2013, 09:57:52 AM
Yes... but not the deadly boring (well, bland, in any case) recordings on Grand Piano. The re-issues from Olympia on Divine Art are sooo much better (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008TW0DQ2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B008TW0DQ2&linkCode=as2&tag=goodmusicguide-20).
Of course that's the ones I have..... ;)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Brian on September 23, 2013, 10:02:11 AM
Perhaps there could be a party in the hole?
Please let this not be innuendo.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on September 23, 2013, 12:18:23 PM
Please let this not be innuendo.
:-\
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: milk on October 04, 2013, 06:11:52 PM
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/Apr11/Weinberg_Shostakovich_CBR21045.jpg)
The Weinberg piano trio here is absolutely stunning. It is very bleak stuff. But, considering he wrote it soon after he lost his closest family members to the holocaust (Treblinka), one can understand why. Anyway, I wasn't prepared for how moved I was going to be.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on October 05, 2013, 12:02:02 AM
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/Apr11/Weinberg_Shostakovich_CBR21045.jpg)
The Weinberg piano trio here is absolutely stunning. It is very bleak stuff. But, considering he wrote it soon after he lost his closest family members to the holocaust (Treblinka), one can understand why. Anyway, I wasn't prepared for how moved I was going to be.

Where did get that information from?
I'm keenly interested in sources that I've been unaware of --- or else (perhaps more likely, I dare say) the above is perhaps not accurate... (There's a LOT of conflicting and incomplete information out there... but from what I've known until now, it was not Treblinka (but Trawniki, which became a sub-camp of Majdanek around the time that his family died, at the latest) and Weinberg did not know by 1945, when he wrote the Piano Trio, that his family had been murdered (this was confirmed only in 1982, upon which he wrote his 6th Violin Sonata, and there you can hear it [, too]!)... although he probably could figure so much.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: milk on October 05, 2013, 12:34:02 AM
Where did get that information from?
I'm keenly interested in sources that I've been unaware of --- or else (perhaps more likely, I dare say) the above is perhaps not accurate... (There's a LOT of conflicting and incomplete information out there... but from what I've known until now, it was not Treblinka (but Trawniki, which became a sub-camp of Majdanek around the time that his family died, at the latest) and Weinberg did not know by 1945, when he wrote the Piano Trio, that his family had been murdered (this was confirmed only in 1982, upon which he wrote his 6th Violin Sonata, and there you can hear it [, too]!)... although he probably could figure so much.
Ah yes. You're right. Thanks. I misread this. And this is the second time in the last day or so that I've written "I misread this" in this forum. Oops! Not Treblinka but Trawniki. Yes, I see: He wouldn't have known his parents' and sister's fate at that point. Perhaps he was aware of the bleak situation at the Lodz ghetto. Perhaps he had lost contact with them by '45. In any case, I'm really falling for Weinberg's music: The cello sonata, piano quintet and piano trio - all written around this same time.   
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on October 05, 2013, 12:47:47 AM
Ah yes. You're right. Thanks. I misread this. And this is the second time in the last day or so that I've written "I misread this" in this forum. Oops! Not Treblinka but Trawniki. Yes, I see: He wouldn't have known his parents' and sister's fate at that point. Perhaps he was aware of the bleak situation at the Lodz ghetto. Perhaps he had lost contact with them by '45. In any case, I'm really falling for Weinberg's music: The cello sonata, piano quintet and piano trio - all written around this same time.

He had lost contact; he'd just been ushered to Tashkent in 43 and then was allowed to move to Moscow in 44 and that's when news (and propaganda) of what the Nazis had done in Poland and beyond would have gotten there, at the latest.

Try the Viola Sonatas (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/07/through-labor-and-love-weinberg-war-and.html) (unaccompanied), the Clarinet Sonata, and the Violin Sonatas (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00C25DKBC/nectarandambr-20) too, perhaps! And of course you have the Borodin recording of the Quintet, right? A rightful classic! New recording of the Violin Concerto coming out, late this year... on Challenge, like the Violin Sonatas.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: milk on October 05, 2013, 12:58:53 AM
He had lost contact; he'd just been ushered to Tashkent in 43 and then was allowed to move to Moscow in 44 and that's when news (and propaganda) of what the Nazis had done in Poland and beyond would have gotten there, at the latest.

Try the Viola Sonatas (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/07/through-labor-and-love-weinberg-war-and.html) (unaccompanied), the Clarinet Sonata, and the Violin Sonatas (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00C25DKBC/nectarandambr-20) too, perhaps! And of course you have the Borodin recording of the Quintet, right? A rightful classic! New recording of the Violin Concerto coming out, late this year... on Challenge, like the Violin Sonatas.
Actually, for the piano Quintet I have the Szymanowski Quartet (with Matthias Kirschnereit) and Doris Adam with EOS Quartet. I don't have the Borodin one. I do also have the clarinet sonata. It's great. Thanks for the recommendations. I will search out the others.   
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on October 05, 2013, 01:10:54 AM
Actually, for the piano Quintet I have the Szymanowski Quartet (with Matthias Kirschnereit) and Doris Adam with EOS Quartet. I don't have the Borodin one. I do also have the clarinet sonata. It's great. Thanks for the recommendations. I will search out the others.

You'll find the link to the Borodin on the "Viola Sonata" linked article... it's with Weinberg himself on Piano, as a bonus!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: milk on October 05, 2013, 01:22:26 AM
You'll find the link to the Borodin on the "Viola Sonata" linked article... it's with Weinberg himself on Piano, as a bonus!
Very informative article! Thanks! Well, you've definitely convinced me to go for Adler's viola recording. For the violin sonatas, there's a bit of competition I see.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on October 05, 2013, 01:44:49 AM
Very informative article! Thanks! Well, you've definitely convinced me to go for Adler's viola recording. For the violin sonatas, there's a bit of competition I see.

Only one set is complete, as of yet (and even then there are two Variation bits missing which were discovered only after it was released)... the Toccata Classics recordings will continue toward completion and include all the solo violin works, too. I'm biased about the Challenge Classics recording, because I was marginally involved with it.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: milk on October 05, 2013, 02:14:08 AM
Only one set is complete, as of yet (and even then there are two Variation bits missing which were discovered only after it was released)... the Toccata Classics recordings will continue toward completion and include all the solo violin works, too. I'm biased about the Challenge Classics recording, because I was marginally involved with it.
Then the Challenge is the easiest way to go at this point. I just listened to Dmitry Yablonsky & Hsin-ni Liu's reading of the cello sonata on the way to pick up dinner. Exhilarating and harrowing! I think Weinberg and Koechlin are the two really important discoveries for me this year.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on October 05, 2013, 03:24:15 AM
Then the Challenge is the easiest way to go at this point. ...

It's said to contain the best liner notes.


[cough cough]  ;)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: milk on October 05, 2013, 03:51:15 AM
It's said to contain the best liner notes.


[cough cough]  ;)
No! My download didn't include them!!! Is there any way I can get a hold of them?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on October 05, 2013, 04:02:15 AM
No! My download didn't include them!!! Is there any way I can get a hold of them?

Hmm... PM awaits you.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on October 21, 2013, 05:46:06 PM
I can honestly say that I've finally connected with Weinberg. It took me some time to do so however. Some breakthrough works were Symphony No. 5, Piano Quintet (Ray you were right --- this is a stunner), Symphony No. 6, Cello Concerto, Clarinet Concerto, and Symphony No. 17 "Memory".

I do want to give a few observations, and please indulge me here as I'm still a 'newbie' to Weinberg, but one thing that attracts me to this music is it's inherit darkness and it's, in many cases, almost inward turbulence, especially in the quieter moments in the music. There's so much hostility in the music and, at the same time, it's as if I'm reading the man's personal diary. I'm thankful I gave his music another chance to grow on me and I look forward to listening to more of his music.

(Currently looking at more Weinberg recordings --- surprise, surprise!) :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: OrchestralNut on October 21, 2013, 06:03:16 PM
I can honestly say that I've finally connected with Weinberg. It took me some time to do so however. Some breakthrough works were Symphony No. 5, Piano Quintet (Ray you were right --- this is a stunner), Symphony No. 6, Cello Concerto, Clarinet Concerto, and Symphony No. 17 "Memory".

I do want to give a few observations, and please indulge me here as I'm still a 'newbie' to Weinberg, but one thing that attracts me to this music is it's inherit darkness and it's, in many cases, almost inward turbulence, especially in the quieter moments in the music. There's so much hostility in the music and, at the same time, it's as if I'm reading the man's personal diary. I'm thankful I gave his music another chance to grow on me and I look forward to listening to more of his music.

(Currently looking at more Weinberg recordings --- surprise, surprise!) :)

Excellent, John!  Definitely a composer, along with Schnittke, that I look forward to exploring more of in 2014!!   :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on October 21, 2013, 06:05:29 PM
Excellent, John!  Definitely a composer, along with Schnittke, that I look forward to exploring more of in 2014!!   :)

Yes! I look forward to your comments about both composers in 2014. So many gems await your discovery.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on October 21, 2013, 06:12:51 PM
So many gems await your discovery.

Indeed! Now that I've got your attention, Ray, have you ever heard of a fellow by the name of Kurt Atterberg? ;D



Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on October 21, 2013, 06:17:44 PM
I can honestly say that I've finally connected with Weinberg. It took me some time to do so however. Some breakthrough works were Symphony No. 5, Piano Quintet (Ray you were right --- this is a stunner), Symphony No. 6, Cello Concerto, Clarinet Concerto, and Symphony No. 17 "Memory".

I do want to give a few observations, and please indulge me here as I'm still a 'newbie' to Weinberg, but one thing that attracts me to this music is it's inherit darkness and it's, in many cases, almost inward turbulence, especially in the quieter moments in the music. There's so much hostility in the music and, at the same time, it's as if I'm reading the man's personal diary. I'm thankful I gave his music another chance to grow on me and I look forward to listening to more of his music.

(Currently looking at more Weinberg recordings --- surprise, surprise!) :)

Good to hear, John! I didn't instantly warm to Weinberg's music on first hearing (though I didn't dislike it), but I've gained appreciation for it over time. His sound-world is indeed very dark, sometimes darker than Shostakovich's in places. A "Russian Pettersson" he is not but he's no Lev Knipper either! ;D

P.S. Apologies for the obscure Knipper reference-he composed one of the most embarrassingly trite pieces of music ever composed-his pot-boiling Symphony no. 4, which can actually be fun if you're in the right mood! It's on YT if you feel strong enough to endure it! :D
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on October 21, 2013, 06:31:07 PM
Good to hear, John! I didn't instantly warm to Weinberg's music on first hearing (though I didn't dislike it), but I've gained appreciation for it over time. His sound-world is indeed very dark, sometimes darker than Shostakovich's in places. A "Russian Pettersson" he is not but he's no Lev Knipper either! ;D

Well, I have more than an appreciation for Weinberg now. I love those works I mentioned above. Looking forward to loving more of his music. My collection of Weinberg was a already a decent size prior to buying those Neos, RCA, and CPO recordings, but I would love those Olympia recordings to be reissued. I would definitely buy them all!

BTW, and this is for everyone, what do you guys think of this performance of Weinberg's PQ? Has anyone heard it?

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on October 22, 2013, 01:40:44 AM
Well, I have more than an appreciation for Weinberg now. I love those works I mentioned above. Looking forward to loving more of his music. My collection of Weinberg was a already a decent size prior to buying those Neos, RCA, and CPO recordings, but I would love those Olympia recordings to be reissued. I would definitely buy them all!

BTW, and this is for everyone, what do you guys think of this performance of Weinberg's PQ? Has anyone heard it?

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B004KDO2U2.01.L.jpg)

One of the better performances of the Quintet! One of the best modern. You ought to have the Melodiya / Borodin / Weinberg (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/07/through-labor-and-love-weinberg-war-and.html), too, though.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: milk on October 22, 2013, 02:33:44 AM
Well, I have more than an appreciation for Weinberg now. I love those works I mentioned above. Looking forward to loving more of his music. My collection of Weinberg was a already a decent size prior to buying those Neos, RCA, and CPO recordings, but I would love those Olympia recordings to be reissued. I would definitely buy them all!

BTW, and this is for everyone, what do you guys think of this performance of Weinberg's PQ? Has anyone heard it?


I'm enjoying this one also.
Title: Re: Re: Mieczysaw Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 22, 2013, 03:04:49 AM
. . . have you ever heard of a fellow by the name of Kurt Atterberg? ;D

Notably, from people who have no appreciation for R. Strauss 8)
Title: Re: Re: Mieczysaw Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 22, 2013, 03:06:06 AM
One of the better performances of the Quintet! One of the best modern. You ought to have the Melodiya / Borodin / Weinberg (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/07/through-labor-and-love-weinberg-war-and.html), too, though.

I (but not my wallet) thank you, Jens. . . .
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on October 22, 2013, 06:35:56 AM
One of the better performances of the Quintet! One of the best modern. You ought to have the Melodiya / Borodin / Weinberg (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/07/through-labor-and-love-weinberg-war-and.html), too, though.

Thanks, Jens. I'll investigate the Borodin as well. BTW, have you heard the Arc Ensemble performance on RCA? What do you think of this one?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on October 22, 2013, 06:54:26 AM
Thanks, Jens. I'll investigate the Borodin as well. BTW, have you heard the Arc Ensemble performance on RCA? What do you think of this one?

Yes, I have... for starters I love their couplings... and their other recordings, like those of Braunfels and Busch.

I haven't got a comparative memory of the Haenssler and the RCA, but very positive impressions of both.

Quote
The Quintet op.18—one of the unequivocally great chamber pieces of that time—is available on perhaps the most famous Weinberg recording of them all: that of the dedicatees Borodin Quartet together with the pianist-composer on Melodiya. But it can also be had with the superb ARC Ensemble (RCA), the Vilnius String Quartet (Delos), the Kopelman Quartet (Nimbus), and the Szymanowski Quartet (Hänssler). That would make it difficult for the EOS-Quartett Wien et al. to compete even if it were better than it is. As it is, it might be the only recording in this edition that can’t garner a recommendation.

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 22, 2013, 06:57:51 AM
Weinberg is an important composer for me, I prefer his writing to Shostakovich's.  But I listen to almost nothing beyond the string quartets.  Symphonies are not my cup of tea, not for any composer, so the next logical step for me would be something from among his other chamber music, most likely the piano quintet.

Interesting!  I always enjoyed playing in orchestra.  OTOH, I have also always played more frequently in chamber combinations/environments.  I guess I just like it all . . . .

Probably I should investigate the quartets before (or more than) the symphonies, and the pf quintet first of all.  It's the damnedest thing, I have a passel of Weinberg CDs wish-listed, but at press time it is still true that the only music of his I presently own fits on two CDs (the Pacifica Qt recording of the Sixth Qt, and the Vc Cto/20th Symphony disc).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: snyprrr on October 22, 2013, 08:36:06 AM
I just did not like the Piano Quintet, which I think was coupled with the SQ 12, which I also didn't like much. Besides the first movement of the Cello Concerto, I haven't heard those Myaskovsky-Shostakovich bleed-your-heart melodies.

Either the PQ or the SQ was much more agressive than I expected. Is their anything like Shosty's SQ 6?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on October 22, 2013, 08:40:23 AM
I just did not like the Piano Quintet, which I think was coupled with the SQ 12, which I also didn't like much. Besides the first movement of the Cello Concerto, I haven't heard those Myaskovsky-Shostakovich bleed-your-heart melodies.

Either the PQ or the SQ was much more agressive than I expected. Is their anything like Shosty's SQ 6?

With Weinberg, don't expect ANYTHING to be less aggressive than either your expectations or DSCH.

Then, with that attitude, listen to the Rhapsody on Moldavian Themes (for violin and piano--for example on the Roth/Gallardo set (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00C25DKBC/goodmusicguide-20).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on October 22, 2013, 11:14:37 AM
The Piano Quintet is a masterpiece and a work which I hold in the highest regard. I've had more difficulty warming to his SQs, though, especially the elliptical later ones.

So, what is everyone's favorite Weinberg symphony? Mine is no. 5 (with 6 following a close second). An incredibly powerful, often violent work.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 22, 2013, 11:15:23 AM
I've only heard one, so I recuse myself from the question of "favorite symphony"   8)   0:)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on October 22, 2013, 11:30:17 AM
The Piano Quintet is a masterpiece and a work which I hold in the highest regard. I've had more difficulty warming to his SQs, though, especially the elliptical later ones.

So, what is everyone's favorite Weinberg symphony? Mine is no. 5 (with 6 following a close second). An incredibly powerful, often violent work.

These are exactly my thoughts too.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on October 22, 2013, 11:33:11 AM
These are exactly my thoughts too.

 :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: amw on October 22, 2013, 11:40:00 AM
Weinberg is an important composer for me, I prefer his writing to Shostakovich's.
Interesting. I also prefer Weinberg to Shostakovich, and I know much is made of the similarities and inter-influences between them.

But personally (and perhaps I'm over-exaggerating this due to my preferences) I don't find Weinberg sounds very much like Shostakovich at all. Sometimes Shostakovich sounds a bit like Weinberg. Other times there are all these little Shostakovichy bits in Weinberg that sound oddly out of place, like he was trying to write something like Shostakovich but failed. The emotional world is often very different—no hollow nervous humour or ironic triviality, very little tub-thumping and bombast, hardly any traces of socialist realism. Technically as well the music seems different, often very modal & diatonic and almost cantorial (the opening theme of the Cello Concerto sounds straight out of a synagogue) in a way that rarely ever happens in Shostakovich without being distorted by his trademark "DSCH" diminished fourths and Prokofievan sudden shifts into remote keys, other times harsher & more astringent than anything in Shostakovich save perhaps the late quartets, but in a more vital Bartókian way rather than the emotionally spent and empty feeling of e.g. DSCH's 13th or 15th.

I'm still not sure where to "put" Weinberg—there are bits that remind me of Kodály, bits that remind me of Britten, bits that remind me of Berg, etc. Perhaps the problem is that to some extent I've not yet found "the" Weinberg piece yet, I've heard a bunch of String Quartets, a Trumpet Concerto and some other concertos, 24 Preludes for solo cello, a Piano Quintet and a few Symphonies, but either haven't listened very closely or something, since they were all good, just nothing really stood out as so amazingly good I'll recommend it to everyone. May have to revisit the quartets, I don't even remember which ones I have at this point.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on October 22, 2013, 06:27:17 PM
Interesting. I also prefer Weinberg to Shostakovich, and I know much is made of the similarities and inter-influences between them.

But personally (and perhaps I'm over-exaggerating this due to my preferences) I don't find Weinberg sounds very much like Shostakovich at all. Sometimes Shostakovich sounds a bit like Weinberg. Other times there are all these little Shostakovichy bits in Weinberg that sound oddly out of place, like he was trying to write something like Shostakovich but failed. The emotional world is often very different—no hollow nervous humour or ironic triviality, very little tub-thumping and bombast, hardly any traces of socialist realism. Technically as well the music seems different, often very modal & diatonic and almost cantorial (the opening theme of the Cello Concerto sounds straight out of a synagogue) in a way that rarely ever happens in Shostakovich without being distorted by his trademark "DSCH" diminished fourths and Prokofievan sudden shifts into remote keys, other times harsher & more astringent than anything in Shostakovich save perhaps the late quartets, but in a more vital Bartókian way rather than the emotionally spent and empty feeling of e.g. DSCH's 13th or 15th.

I'm still not sure where to "put" Weinberg—there are bits that remind me of Kodály, bits that remind me of Britten, bits that remind me of Berg, etc. Perhaps the problem is that to some extent I've not yet found "the" Weinberg piece yet, I've heard a bunch of String Quartets, a Trumpet Concerto and some other concertos, 24 Preludes for solo cello, a Piano Quintet and a few Symphonies, but either haven't listened very closely or something, since they were all good, just nothing really stood out as so amazingly good I'll recommend it to everyone. May have to revisit the quartets, I don't even remember which ones I have at this point.

I very much enjoyed reading this post except for the parts where you seem like you want to deride Shostakovich's music for no good reason. Emotionally empty? Hollow? Triviality? We're obviously listening to different composers because Shostakovich is none of these things and if he was, it's simply because he had the Soviet authorities breathing down his neck making sure he wasn't up to any funny business. Shostakovich did what he had to do to survive in that environment as did Weinberg. These composers lives weren't exactly a picnic. You don't like Shostakovich that's fine, but don't use the Weinberg thread as a platform for yourself.

Shostakovich was one of the greatest composers of the 20th Century. History acknowledges this and has continued to acknowledge it.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: HenselFlaeder on October 22, 2013, 06:28:27 PM
I think i remember hearing some nice things in the Trumpet Concerto. I believe it has a searing slow movement.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on October 22, 2013, 06:30:26 PM
I think i remember hearing some nice things in the Trumpet Concerto. I believe it has a searing slow movement.

Yep and it's quite moving too with some haunting lyrical moments. I really like the whole work a lot though.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: amw on October 22, 2013, 07:25:19 PM
I very much enjoyed reading this post except for the parts where you seem like you want to deride Shostakovich's music for no good reason. Emotionally empty? Hollow? Triviality?

Yes, I suppose it's easy to read those bits in a negative way. Hollowness, intentional banality, emptiness, bleakness, etc, can however be used to great effect, and at his best, Shostakovich uses those tropes to create works and passages that can be extremely disquieting and linger long in the memory. To take an example from a piece I like, the main theme of the finale of his Piano Trio No. 2 is an extremely "trivial", even silly theme. It uses only three notes!

(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32084883/ex1.png)

A short while later a new, more dramatic phrase begins, and we think the music is starting to go somewhere; the melody begins to emphasize the tritone and major sixth of the C-natural root, creating a diminished seventh:

(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32084883/ex2.png)

which builds...

(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32084883/ex3.png)

and builds...

(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32084883/ex4.png)

and nothing happens. The theme goes right back to where it started:

(http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32084883/ex5.png)

Here at the beginning of the movement this strikes us as a stroke of Haydnesque wit, if at all. An extremely simple theme that always seems like it's going to develop into something more interesting, yet if anything gets steadily less interesting and more repetitive as it goes on. (Like most "trivial" music, it is in many ways very sophisticated, and probably required a fair bit of sketching and drafting to come up with. The main theme of Beethoven's Ninth was even worse. :> ) But now Shostakovich leads us into the "meat" of the movement by introducing first a Jewish dance-tune (side note: he also got to know Weinberg around this time, I wonder if the increasing presence of Jewish themes and motifs in Shostakovich is related to that?) which actually manages to get off the ground, unlike the bumbling, halting first theme, and then subjecting both themes to an intense development that culminates in a climax of great violence and a return to highly oppressive, cold, bleak material from the first movement.

After that it settles down for what it doesn't make a lot of sense to call a "recapitulation". The first theme comes back, but though the notes are the same and the presentation is not dissimilar, the mood is completely different. The weight of the entire (quite substantial, 11+ minutes on my recording) movement, and to some extent the whole piece, rests on this return, and the trivial, silly, repetitive first theme now sounds more stuck in a rut, grounded, unable to escape. Not emotional uplifting or transfiguration, not utmost despair and self-pity, just humming the same tune nervously to yourself over and over again while continually glancing over your shoulder at Nazi concentration camp guards/Comrade Stalin/your own personal insecurities. Under despotism life, and the continual abrasion of the soul, goes on.

Here Shostakovich allows himself something he later looked less kindly on, and relents, letting the piece come to a stop in a becalmed (if not actually consolatory) E major, but a few decades later he'd probably have opted instead for a slow fadeout with the sounds of marching gradually disappearing into the distance (compare the 2nd Cello Concerto, etc), and the piece would not have particularly suffered for it. Part of the whole point of Shostakovich is that the trivial, banal, everyday things wear you down so much more than the grand catastrophes.

Anyway... *cough* this is the Weinberg thread, and that whole thing I just described... doesn't strike me as the sort of thing Weinberg ever really tried to do. He responded to the pressures of Soviet life rather differently (as everyone did).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on October 22, 2013, 07:32:05 PM
Thanks for explaining yourself, amw. Interesting post.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on October 24, 2013, 11:24:27 AM
I think i remember hearing some nice things in the Trumpet Concerto. I believe it has a searing slow movement.

The old Kondrashin recording of Symphony No 5 on Russian Disc contained the Trumpet Concerto also. A wonderful disc but often absurdly priced on Amazon now.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on October 24, 2013, 05:49:33 PM
The old Kondrashin recording of Symphony No 5 on Russian Disc contained the Trumpet Concerto also. A wonderful disc but often absurdly priced on Amazon now.

I would LOVE to have that Kondrashin recording or even the Melodiya reissue of Kondrashin's performances of the 4th and 6th. I want both!!!!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: milk on October 27, 2013, 03:02:13 AM
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0003/440/MI0003440536.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
I went ahead and purchased this recording tonight. I haven't any of the other releases in the series, nor have I noticed any mention of it here. These works are very approachable. I'm tempted to make a playlist to which I can add this, Schumann, Debussy, Villa-Lobos, and any other childhood musical themes I find in my musical collection.   
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on October 28, 2013, 09:31:02 AM
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0003/440/MI0003440536.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
I went ahead and purchased this recording tonight. I haven't any of the other releases in the series, nor have I noticed any mention of it here. These works are very approachable. I'm tempted to make a playlist to which I can add this, Schumann, Debussy, Villa-Lobos, and any other childhood musical themes I find in my musical collection.

There's not a release of this pianist in Weinberg that I don't think is underpowered and fainthearted. Sadly. But fortunately the Olympia recordings have been re-issued on divine art. http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/01/best-recordings-of-2012-2.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/01/best-recordings-of-2012-2.html)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on October 28, 2013, 02:38:44 PM
The old Kondrashin recording of Symphony No 5 on Russian Disc contained the Trumpet Concerto also. A wonderful disc but often absurdly priced on Amazon now.
And he's calles Vainberg on it. I just checked my copy...... :D
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on November 04, 2013, 01:25:22 PM
I was just reading through Weinberg's Wikipedia article and I noticed something quite striking written by Alexander Ivashkin in relation to Weinberg sounding a lot like Shostakovich:

Alexander Ivashkin has argued that composers such as Weinberg damaged not only their reputations, but also that of Shostakovich himself: "these works only served to kill off Shostakovich's music, to cover it over with a scab of numerous and bad copies".

[Taken from Wikipedia]

What do you guys make of this? And, how, in your own opinions, is Weinberg different from Shostakovich? What are the characteristics of Weinberg's own style in relation to Shostakovich's?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on November 04, 2013, 01:39:37 PM
I was just reading through Weinberg's Wikipedia article and I noticed something quite striking written by Alexander Ivashkin in relation to Weinberg sounding a lot like Shostakovich:

Alexander Ivashkin has argued that composers such as Weinberg damaged not only their reputations, but also that of Shostakovich himself: "these works only served to kill off Shostakovich's music, to cover it over with a scab of numerous and bad copies".

[Taken from Wikipedia]

What do you guys make of this? And, how, in your own opinions, is Weinberg different from Shostakovich? What are the characteristics of Weinberg's own style in relation to Shostakovich's?

That's major bollocks, as far as I can hear and see...

Weinberg has a much lighter, wittier side than DSCH -- when Weinberg is funny (or humorous, rather, or childish), he really is THAT. With DSCH, there's always a sardonic undertone.
At the same time, Weinberg can be considerably darker and denser... and did not spend any time trying to fuse personal genius and propagandistic Muzak.

Then of course Weinberg also lived a lot longer... and you can hear that in works like the IDIOT, which sounds at times more like B.A.Zimmermann than DSCH. (If comparisons need be made.)

If he continues to be famousish for a few more decades, people will stop comparing Weinberg to others, anyway, but compare less known composers to Weinberg. He's got that much of a unique voice.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on November 04, 2013, 01:48:01 PM
That's major bollocks, as far as I can hear and see...

Weinberg has a much lighter, wittier side than DSCH -- when Weinberg is funny (or humorous, rather, or childish), he really is THAT. With DSCH, there's always a sardonic undertone.
At the same time, Weinberg can be considerably darker and denser... and did not spend any time trying to fuse personal genius and propagandistic Muzak.

Then of course Weinberg also lived a lot longer... and you can hear that in works like the IDIOT, which sounds at times more like B.A.Zimmermann than DSCH. (If comparisons need be made.)

If he continues to be famousish for a few more decades, people will stop comparing Weinberg to others, anyway, but compare less known composers to Weinberg. He's got that much of a unique voice.

Some good points, especially in regards to Weinberg's music being much more denser than Shostakovich's, but you really didn't explain how he has a unique voice. What is a characteristic Weinbergian moment? Any examples you care to point out?

BTW, I'm not trying to argumentative, I'm just trying to get to pick your mind a bit more.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on November 04, 2013, 01:51:11 PM
I was just reading through Weinberg's Wikipedia article and I noticed something quite striking written by Alexander Ivashkin in relation to Weinberg sounding a lot like Shostakovich:

Alexander Ivashkin has argued that composers such as Weinberg damaged not only their reputations, but also that of Shostakovich himself: "these works only served to kill off Shostakovich's music, to cover it over with a scab of numerous and bad copies".

[Taken from Wikipedia]

What do you guys make of this? And, how, in your own opinions, is Weinberg different from Shostakovich? What are the characteristics of Weinberg's own style in relation to Shostakovich's?


Makes no sense whatsoever to me. It would be like saying that the music of Finzi 'killed off' Vaughan Williams. Weinberg's music has a searching and visionary quality, which is not the same as Shostakovich in my opinion. Maybe his Jewish background is an influence. As far as I'm concerned their music compliments each other.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on November 04, 2013, 02:04:02 PM

Makes no sense whatsoever to me. It would be like saying that the music of Finzi 'killed off' Vaughan Williams. Weinberg's music has a searching and visionary quality, which is not the same as Shostakovich in my opinion. Maybe his Jewish background is an influence. As far as I'm concerned their music compliments each other.

Another fair point for sure. Yes, there is a searching quality in much of Weinberg's music.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on November 04, 2013, 02:10:59 PM
Another fair point for sure. Yes, there is a searching quality in Weinberg's music that isn't evident in Shostakovich.

I disagree that there aren't searching qualities evident in Shostakovich's music. I mean, his Symphonies 4, 8, 10, and 15, VC 1, CC 2, Piano Quintet, Piano Trio 2, and SQs 8 and 15 are some of the most profound and yes, "searching", pieces of music ever composed.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on November 04, 2013, 02:12:48 PM
I disagree that there aren't searching qualities evident in Shostakovich's music. I mean, his Symphonies 4, 8, 10, and 15, VC 1, CC 2, and SQs 8 and 15 are some of the most profound and yes, "searching", pieces of music ever composed.

Well, I'm trying to help out Weinberg here, Kyle! ;) Shouldn't you be creating another poll?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Brian on November 04, 2013, 02:20:23 PM
Jens, what would you consider some of Weinberg's wittiest music? I must confess that between the solo cello sonatas, some of the string quartets, and the Symphony No. 20, I've gotten the impression of a very dour composer. There is the Moldavian Rhapsody and the luminous Cello Concerto (which is like a more cosmopolitan, Jewish Khachaturian than anything resembling Shosty) to balance things out, and some of the calmer music on that excellent CPO wind music disc...
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on November 04, 2013, 02:23:40 PM
Jens, what would you consider some of Weinberg's wittiest music? I must confess that between the solo cello sonatas, some of the string quartets, and the Symphony No. 20, I've gotten the impression of a very dour composer. There is the Moldavian Rhapsody and the luminous Cello Concerto (which is like a more cosmopolitan, Jewish Khachaturian than anything resembling Shosty) to balance things out, and some of the calmer music on that excellent CPO wind music disc...

Symphony No. 20 is a fantastic work, Brian, you should definitely listen to it again. I don't hear a 'dour' composer at all. I hear a composer bearing his heart and soul.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on November 04, 2013, 02:28:17 PM
Here's a freakin' awesome symphony by Weinberg:

http://www.youtube.com/v/2XqV1Gm_rY8

This symphony has been recorded twice now. This is Fedoseyev's first recorded performance (on Olympia or Russian Disc), but the second one, which I own, is on Neos with the Vienna Symphony Orchestra.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on November 04, 2013, 03:01:51 PM
Well, I'm trying to help out Weinberg here, Kyle! ;) Shouldn't you be creating another poll?

You know I approve of anything to give the unsungs a hand! ;)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on November 04, 2013, 03:02:50 PM
Jens, what would you consider some of Weinberg's wittiest music? I must confess that between the solo cello sonatas, some of the string quartets, and the Symphony No. 20, I've gotten the impression of a very dour composer. There is the Moldavian Rhapsody and the luminous Cello Concerto (which is like a more cosmopolitan, Jewish Khachaturian than anything resembling Shosty) to balance things out, and some of the calmer music on that excellent CPO wind music disc...

Try the delightful Rhapsody on Moldavian Themes, one of Weinberg's most light-hearted and tuneful works.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on November 05, 2013, 05:11:51 AM
Jens, what would you consider some of Weinberg's wittiest music? I must confess that between the solo cello sonatas, some of the string quartets, and the Symphony No. 20, I've gotten the impression of a very dour composer. There is the Moldavian Rhapsody and the luminous Cello Concerto (which is like a more cosmopolitan, Jewish Khachaturian than anything resembling Shosty) to balance things out, and some of the calmer music on that excellent CPO wind music disc...


Those, for example:

Quote
..., it’s unburdened by the sardonic, forced, ironic quality that usually lingers with Shostakovich… appropriately childlike in Weinberg’s Children’s Notebooks for piano or happily dancing in the 1948 Sinfonietta.

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on November 05, 2013, 06:42:30 AM
It is an absurd statement.  First, Shostakovich's music is hardly "dead" - he is one of the most performed and lionized composers of the 20th century.  Next, Weinberg's music, to my ears, is written with more subtlety and he does not rely on what I would call "quasi gimmicks" which is one reason why I have never been sold on Shostakovich as a "great" composer. 

It is a cliche to claim that the influence between Shostakovich and Weinberg was a one way street.

Yes, I agree that Ivashkin's comment was baseless. It's just curious opinion to hold and one that I wanted everyone else to read and comment on.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Brian on November 05, 2013, 12:52:22 PM
Thanks, Jens! (And John!)

Try the delightful Rhapsody on Moldavian Themes, one of Weinberg's most light-hearted and tuneful works.
Uh, might want to read my post over again.  :P
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on November 05, 2013, 02:43:56 PM
I disagree that there aren't searching qualities evident in Shostakovich's music. I mean, his Symphonies 4, 8, 10, and 15, VC 1, CC 2, Piano Quintet, Piano Trio 2, and SQs 8 and 15 are some of the most profound and yes, "searching", pieces of music ever composed.

I agree, but in Weinberg it has a different quality to it I think ( difficult to explain).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on November 05, 2013, 04:54:16 PM
Uh, might want to read my post over again.  :P

*facepalm* :-[
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on November 05, 2013, 04:55:33 PM
I agree, but in Weinberg it has a different quality to it I think ( difficult to explain).

Yes, Weinberg was definitely more than just a Shostakovich clone and his music exhibits some traits that are dissimilar to the other's music.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: amw on November 05, 2013, 10:56:58 PM
What do you guys make of this? And, how, in your own opinions, is Weinberg different from Shostakovich? What are the characteristics of Weinberg's own style in relation to Shostakovich's?

This is a bit of a nerd post, be advised.

Melodically, Weinberg's musical language varies between very diatonic material (i.e. using just the notes of the major or minor scale) and expressive chromatic, jagged melodic lines reminiscent of Berg or even Webern. Shostakovich's diatonic melodies are often "corrupted" by his trademark diminished fourths, octatonic scale fragments and sudden leaps into foreign keys (something he possibly got from Prokofiev) and even at his most astringent his melodic writing does not approach Weinberg's in angularity (with the possible exception of the Thirteenth Quartet).

Harmonically, they are quite similar, but Shostakovich is significantly more contrapuntal, so many of his "harmonies" are in fact implied in a two- or three-part texture where each voice is of equal importance. Weinberg's music tends to be more homophonic. When counterpoint does figure more prominently in his later music it is probably due to the influence of Shostakovich.

Rhythmically, Weinberg's music displays greater rhythmic flexibility from the earliest pieces, whereas Shostakovich's early work tends to be more locked into 4/4, 3/4, 6/8, etc rhythmic grooves for long periods of time. The increasing plasticity of rhythm in Shostakovich's later work is probably due to the influence of Weinberg. Shostakovich never abandoned mercilessly repetitive rhythms as a vehicle to describe brutality or fear or nervousness, whereas Weinberg rarely used such rhythms in the first place (and almost never for those specific expressive purposes, more as in the finale of the 1948 Sinfonietta in a folk-inspired context).

In terms of models, Weinberg drew frequent inspiration from folk music in addition to the styles of his friends/mentors Shostakovich and Myaskovsky. Shostakovich's music is much more strongly rooted in the Austro-German tradition as represented by Mahler and Berg, as well as the more "cosmopolitan" Russian music of Chaikovsky and Mussorgsky.

In terms of orchestration, colour and timbre they are similar. The early works of Weinberg are probably directly inspired by Shostakovich's in this regard; later on as they became friends a mutual flow of ideas presumably took place.

In terms of affect, this is obviously different for each listener. For me, Weinberg's music is often much more ambiguous in the emotions it attempts to invoke in the listener. The use of various tropes and gimmicks—I don't mean just standardised things like the "Dies Irae" in a solemn passage, but also all the various musical devices commonly used in e.g. film music or opera to convey suspense, drama, sadness, character—used by composers since (more or less) Rossini in order to manipulate the audience's emotions has been compared to techniques of propaganda and rhetoric, and is certainly a feature of a good deal of Soviet music in particular. Often in a Shostakovich piece one will find that a particular passage is "obviously" meant to be menacing, or heroic, or elegiac, etc, etc, and when there is "ambiguity" it is because the music can be read as suggesting two or three different states, but is still clearly suggesting something. Weinberg is more content, I think, to not try to convey any particular emotion or character, but rather let the audience try to come to terms with the music on their own, which made his music much less suitable as propaganda and accounts in some part for his neglect by the Soviet apparatus.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on November 06, 2013, 07:34:06 AM
Great and informative post, amw. Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 19, 2013, 07:25:18 AM
Most interesting post, thank you.

[...] In terms of affect, this is obviously different for each listener. For me, Weinberg's music is often much more ambiguous in the emotions it attempts to invoke in the listener.

To be sure, I am still getting to know more of Weinberg . . . I have not perceived any discernible, how to say, superiority in ambiguity, on either part.
 
Tangentially . . . While I do not anticipate his becoming "more to me" than Shostakovich, I can see that I am probably going to want to visit all of the string quartets . . . .
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 19, 2013, 08:28:02 AM
Whew, I don't think I had listened to the Twentieth Symphony before.  Wonderful piece!

So the inevitable question for the Weinberg fanciers:  Do the symphonies start out wonderful?  What is the dish on the early symphonies?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on November 19, 2013, 12:22:24 PM
Whew, I don't think I had listened to the Twentieth Symphony before.  Wonderful piece!

So the inevitable question for the Weinberg fanciers:  Do the symphonies start out wonderful?  What is the dish on the early symphonies?

The early symphonies are great, Karl, especially nos. 5 and 6, Weinberg's two symphonic masterpieces IMHO.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on November 19, 2013, 12:33:20 PM
Whew, I don't think I had listened to the Twentieth Symphony before.  Wonderful piece!

So the inevitable question for the Weinberg fanciers:  Do the symphonies start out wonderful?  What is the dish on the early symphonies?
I've heard people (on this forum) state that #5 is one of the few symphonies that can stand up to DSCH 4, and it's great.  The 3rd, 4th, 6th symphonies all have their qualities to them (love #6).  Need to give #7 another listen, but is not my favorite.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 19, 2013, 12:43:15 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: amw on November 19, 2013, 03:07:26 PM
To be sure, I am still getting to know more of Weinberg . . . I have not perceived any discernible, how to say, superiority in ambiguity, on either part.

I should mention that I do not see a more overtly evocative nature as a failing, as there are a number of similarly un-ambiguous composers who mean quite a lot to me (Beethoven, Stravinsky, etc). I'm not sure how to phrase it neutrally (if I were to say Weinberg were less emotional, it would seem a negative criticism; less manipulative, a positive one). It's quite possible that I'm simply less receptive to Shostakovich's brand of manipulation than Weinberg's.

Should also mention that my opinion is based on a much less extensive familiarity with Weinberg's music than with Shostakovich's:

Weinberg
String Quartets 2, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11-15, 17
Piano Quintet
Violin Sonatas 3 & 4
Symphonies 1, 6, 7, 17
Sinfonietta 1
Violin, cello, flute, trumpet & clarinet concertos
24 Preludes for solo cello

Shostakovich
Symphonies 1, 4-11, 13-15
String quartets 2-15
Complete piano works
Complete concerti
Piano Trio 2
Piano Quintet
Violin, cello, viola sonatas
The Nose
Some of Lady Macbeth of Mtensk
Suites for Variety Orchestra 1 & 2

and my mind could change as I become more familiar with Weinberg's symphonies & operas (which by nature are more "public" and therefore less prone to emotional ambiguity than the chamber works).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on November 20, 2013, 02:03:00 AM
...
and my mind could change as I become more familiar with Weinberg's symphonies & operas (which by nature are more "public" and therefore less prone to emotional ambiguity than the chamber works).

Funny... I think of it exactly the other way 'round... especially (but not only) with DSCH... where the chamber works are more private and therefore less prone to emotional ambiguity than the symphonic works.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: milk on November 21, 2013, 04:06:27 AM


I'm enthralled with this piano music. For the playing, well, I've nothing to compare it to. But the music is quite something to dive into...and diving I am. I can feel that this will occupy me for some time to come. I feel like Weinberg has so much to express in each note, each musical gesture. Even the Children's Notebook and Easy Pieces are more than one expects from each listen. This is music that is worth much more than each moment spent in its company...there is a lot here from Weinberg. A lot of feelings, emotions, experiences, poetry, reflection etc.     
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on November 21, 2013, 05:55:19 AM
The music is wonderful, but the performances lack any kind of verve, I've found. I've heard most of the Notebooks live with Jascha Nemtsov, and even though he's not exactly an inspired pianist, either, they were much more alive. For the bigger works, where ABF and Murray McLachlan (formerly Olympia, currently being re-issued) overlap, it's a no-contest in favor of the latter: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/01/best-recordings-of-2012-2.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/01/best-recordings-of-2012-2.html)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: milk on November 21, 2013, 06:23:16 AM
The music is wonderful, but the performances lack any kind of verve, I've found. I've heard most of the Notebooks live with Jascha Nemtsov, and even though he's not exactly an inspired pianist, either, they were much more alive. For the bigger works, where ABF and Murray McLachlan (formerly Olympia, currently being re-issued) overlap, it's a no-contest in favor of the latter: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/01/best-recordings-of-2012-2.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/01/best-recordings-of-2012-2.html)
I will investigate McLachlan. I don't want to repeat what might be an easy comparison with Shostakovich but I wonder if there are other 20th century composers who are as connected to Bach in their keyboard works as these two seem to be? I guess that's one part of the attraction - though only a small part because it's not explicit everywhere in the music. It is one thing that I find interesting though.     
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 21, 2013, 06:24:52 AM
I will investigate McLachlan. I don't want to repeat what might be an easy comparison with Shostakovich but I wonder if there are other 20th century composers who are as connected to Bach in their keyboard works as these two seem to be?

Dost know Hindemith's Ludus tonalis?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: milk on November 21, 2013, 06:45:45 AM
Dost know Hindemith's Ludus tonalis?
I didn't. I shall investigate. Looks fascinating (from the wikipedia description).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 21, 2013, 06:49:03 AM
Wonderful piece.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: milk on November 21, 2013, 07:03:24 AM
Wonderful piece.
Thanks! I just snapped up McCabe. Looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 21, 2013, 07:36:18 AM
That's the one I like best.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Sammy on November 21, 2013, 02:40:45 PM
Thanks! I just snapped up McCabe. Looking forward to it.

Try locating a copy of Richter's account on the Pyramid label.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: milk on November 23, 2013, 07:24:10 AM
The music is wonderful, but the performances lack any kind of verve, I've found. I've heard most of the Notebooks live with Jascha Nemtsov, and even though he's not exactly an inspired pianist, either, they were much more alive. For the bigger works, where ABF and Murray McLachlan (formerly Olympia, currently being re-issued) overlap, it's a no-contest in favor of the latter: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/01/best-recordings-of-2012-2.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/01/best-recordings-of-2012-2.html)
Thanks for that. I took your advice and acquired his performances of sonatas 4, 5, and 6. I'm not really able to compare him to ABF yet, but paying a second time to have these works gave me even more motivation to concentrate on them. They are wonderful works. And McLachlan is definitely on point!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on November 28, 2013, 02:26:49 PM
The Passenger coming to NYC in 2014!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on December 05, 2013, 12:51:57 AM
upcoming:

(https://scontent-b-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1472874_10151849456697989_206161410_n.jpg)
(click to enlarge)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on December 05, 2013, 12:59:18 AM
Britten as The Passenger?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Cato on January 30, 2014, 07:01:21 AM
From the General Opera News this morning:

Mieczyslaw Weinberg's opera The Passenger: a rave review from the Wall Street Journal's Heidi Waleson.

An excerpt:



Quote
Conductor Patrick Summers shaped the evening with enormous care, building dramatic tension but also allowing the long, meditative scenes in the women's barracks to unfold naturally. Weinberg's vivid musical language is accessible and precise, grotesque or wrenching as the moment demands. Violently pounding drums and brass suggest Dmitri Shostakovich ; a mere shimmer of wispy, haunting strings, Benjamin Britten. The orchestration always left space for the voices and amplified their meaning, as in the brief instrumental chorale that echoed Bronka's prayer, or the percussion that smashed into the prisoners' reveries along with the guards. The chorus was a key player with its refrain about the "pitch black wall of death." Soft and insinuating in Act I, it was a memory working its way into Liese's head; in Act II, the refrain became a dead march with a tolling bell.

See:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304007504579348631567426454?mod=WSJ_LifeStyle_Lifestyle_6 (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304007504579348631567426454?mod=WSJ_LifeStyle_Lifestyle_6)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 30, 2014, 07:19:27 AM
Cool!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: TheGSMoeller on January 30, 2014, 07:26:24 AM
Lyric Opera of Chicago (http://www.lyricopera.org) announced its 2014-15 season. The Passenger is one of the eight scheduled operas.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 30, 2014, 07:28:00 AM
Cooler, still!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on January 30, 2014, 07:43:43 AM
Lyric Opera of Chicago (http://www.lyricopera.org) announced its 2014-15 season. The Passenger is one of the eight scheduled operas.

Chicago is the performance to catch. The international libretto, not the considerably weaker English one!!!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on February 17, 2014, 09:37:55 AM
Is anyone thinking of picking this one up?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-Vs3VLovL.jpg)

If I'm not mistaken, this is the only time Kremer has committed himself to any of Weinberg's music. Is this correct? Why, oh why has it taken him so long to record any Weinberg?!?!? I'd love to hear Kremer in the Violin Concerto.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on February 17, 2014, 11:07:49 AM
Is anyone thinking of picking this one up?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-Vs3VLovL.jpg)

If I'm not mistaken, this is the only time Kremer has committed himself to any of Weinberg's music. Is this correct? Why, oh why has it taken him so long to record any Weinberg?!?!? I'd love to hear Kremer in the Violin Concerto.
Yep. Thinking that is. Not pressing buy buttons like one obsessed.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on February 17, 2014, 11:39:19 AM
Yep. Thinking that is. Not pressing buy butoins like one obsessed.

Yeah, I'm just thinking, too. ;) ;D
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on February 17, 2014, 11:40:19 AM
I am really a fan of his string quartets, and I already own all of those.  But, Gidon Kremer playing the Third Violin Sonata is something I might go for.  The rest of the of the recording seems to have what looks to me like relatively less interesting material.

Disc: 1
1. Sonate Nr. 3 (op. 126)
2. Allegro con moto
3. Andante
4. Moderato assai
5. Allegretto
6. Lento
7. Allegro moderato

Disc: 2
1. Concertino (op. 42)
2. Concerto grosso. Grave
3. Pastorale. Lento
4. Canzona. Andantino
5. Burlesque. Allegro molto
6. Inversion. L istesso tempo

If this surfaces on MOG, I'll give a listen, for sure.

I can't say I know any of Weinberg's Violin Sonatas. I know he wrote many of them. I wonder where would be a good place to start?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on February 17, 2014, 12:19:17 PM
This is a sonata for solo violin, not for piano and violin (the 3rd violin sonata with piano is op. 37).  This one is a late work.  I've not heard it but it is supposed to be an important work.

Ah okay, thanks.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on February 17, 2014, 02:13:23 PM
I can't say I know any of Weinberg's Violin Sonatas. I know he wrote many of them. I wonder where would be a good place to start?

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on February 17, 2014, 02:29:48 PM



Ah, yes. I've seen that set before. Haven't heard a note from it, but will investigate it. Thanks!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: snyprrr on February 17, 2014, 03:31:34 PM
So, give me a bone- which is THE Weinberg String Quartet?, and please don't say No.12. Would I rather like Popov or Sheballin?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: amw on February 17, 2014, 03:40:53 PM
Stream the disc with 2, 12 and 17 on Spotify or whatever you have. Most of the quartets are going to be like 12, Bartók meets Pettersson meets Ustvolskaya, but 2 is really cute, and 17 never does quite what you'd expect. If you already know that one, try the one with 5, 9 and 14; 5 is like 2, 9 is a lost Shosty work but less sarcastic and 14 is like 12 again (although with more happening).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: snyprrr on February 17, 2014, 04:15:22 PM
Stream the disc with 2, 12 and 17 on Spotify or whatever you have. Most of the quartets are going to be like 12, Bartók meets Pettersson meets Ustvolskaya, but 2 is really cute, and 17 never does quite what you'd expect. If you already know that one, try the one with 5, 9 and 14; 5 is like 2, 9 is a lost Shosty work but less sarcastic and 14 is like 12 again (although with more happening).

I just sampled some of 2, 3, 4, 6, & 17. Well, I have some Danel recordings, and they are in that Arditti arena, so, when I was listening, and hearing the abject delicacy of No.6, which must be a 'Bird' SQ, very nice! There's a lot of what I immediately hear as 'Jewish DSCH' because it's all the same basic material anyway, I mean, you know, it is, but, whatever. Hearing 'DSCH' Music without the DSCH is like hearing someone do Bartok or Schoenberg. I mean, I liked it, but I have to give some credit to the artistry of the Danel for pulling it off. I am hearing all that European Rustic thing- Ginastera being another extreme in his 'Rustic'. Maybe if the Danel played Holmboe...

I'd certainly like to wind through the Danel's Cycle, perhaps they'd turn me around on No.12? Anyhow, just from the sample I would certainly recommend this Cycle to anyone (MI et al).

Still I need to check Popov and Shebalin...
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: snyprrr on February 17, 2014, 04:34:42 PM
The Danel set is the only one I've heard and consider it very good.  I always enjoy #5.

There aaare these Composers whom I like better before their embrace of Modernismo. DSCH SQ No.1, for instance (and No.6). Weinberg seems like like a nice early rustic.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: amw on February 17, 2014, 04:39:08 PM
It's true, the Danels can probably make anything sound good. I'd like a Wellesz cycle from them myself.

I don't know the Popov quartets, but Shebalin is sort of like a somewhat modernised Myaskovsky. All of those are on Olympia so good luck.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: amw on February 17, 2014, 04:48:37 PM
I thought it was the Artis Quartet that did some Wellesz. 

Yes. Only three of the 8 quartets though. I don't believe any of the others have been recorded. Someone should do it. >.>
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 18, 2014, 03:02:18 AM
Stream the disc with 2, 12 and 17 on Spotify or whatever you have.

Thanks for the suggestion . . . the cover of the Danel Qt recording gives a dual opus number for the Second Quartet, so I am guessing they record the revised version?  Anyone have information about that revision? San Anton'?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 18, 2014, 07:11:41 AM
Thanks!  If you could expand on that w/r/t the Second Quartet (have you heard both versions?), I should be interested to hear.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 18, 2014, 08:03:12 AM
Thank you!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: amw on April 16, 2014, 12:29:32 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-Vs3VLovL.jpg)

Since no one seemed to have any comments on this I downloaded MP3s to have a listen. I was quite impressed with the Violin Sonata which received a very committed performance from Gidon—it's a 22 1/2 minute single movement of almost unremitting intensity, which is not going to be everyone's glass of vodka, but its somewhat fragmentary quality with snatches of melody often coming to the surface only to undercut themselves moment later definitely appeals to me.

Not so sure about the other pieces on the recording, though the Symphony No. 10 seems to have some interesting things in it as well.

I think the solo string music I've heard may be some of Metek's best stuff. Now curious about that NEOS release (though I find their decision to airbrush the normally pretty and human-looking Julia Rebekka Adler into a flawless wraith a bit questionable... not to mention it's out of stock at Presto and expensive everywhere else)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on June 02, 2014, 09:08:01 AM
.



Anyone familiar with this CD?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: pjme on August 22, 2014, 03:26:14 AM
(https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/hellostage-fotos/84dbc161-9505-11e3-b3a8-22000a24d869/profile84dbc161-9505-11e3-b3a8-22000a24d869.jpg)

Just listened to the slow movements of the violinconcerto. haunting!

Peter
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on August 30, 2014, 09:12:01 AM
I saw on Arkivmusic that a bluray disc of Weinberg's opera The Passenger was released in November.

Just saw that on TV. It was the first Weinberg work I have ever heard. Now listening to Cello Sonatas on Spotify...
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 15, 2014, 05:37:24 PM
.



Anyone familiar with this CD?

I bought this CD many nights ago. Did you ever get around to buying this one, Paul?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 15, 2014, 05:39:18 PM
Since no one seemed to have any comments on this I downloaded MP3s to have a listen. I was quite impressed with the Violin Sonata which received a very committed performance from Gidon—it's a 22 1/2 minute single movement of almost unremitting intensity, which is not going to be everyone's glass of vodka, but its somewhat fragmentary quality with snatches of melody often coming to the surface only to undercut themselves moment later definitely appeals to me.

Not so sure about the other pieces on the recording, though the Symphony No. 10 seems to have some interesting things in it as well.

I think the solo string music I've heard may be some of Metek's best stuff. Now curious about that NEOS release (though I find their decision to airbrush the normally pretty and human-looking Julia Rebekka Adler into a flawless wraith a bit questionable... not to mention it's out of stock at Presto and expensive everywhere else)

Thanks for the feedback. I bought this set tonight. Can't wait to hear Kremer tear into some Weinberg. I don't think I've heard the Concertino For Violin and String Orchestra, so this will be an interesting listen.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 15, 2014, 06:05:14 PM
I definitely have the Danel Quartet's Weinberg SQ cycle on my wish list for a Christmas purchase. Should be good winter music. :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 15, 2014, 06:11:13 PM
(https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/hellostage-fotos/84dbc161-9505-11e3-b3a8-22000a24d869/profile84dbc161-9505-11e3-b3a8-22000a24d869.jpg)

Just listened to the slow movements of the violinconcerto. haunting!

Peter

The best I can remember it is haunting. I have this Linus Roth performance of it on the way. I hope more soloists take up Weinberg's concerti. Have you heard the Cello Concerto per chance? This is a remarkable work.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 15, 2014, 06:50:06 PM
How about that Piano Quintet everyone? Wow...just wow....

This recording is especially fine:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61vVdRrkIvL.jpg)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on September 15, 2014, 06:58:46 PM
The best I can remember it is haunting. I have this Linus Roth performance of it on the way. I hope more soloists take up Weinberg's concerti. Have you heard the Cello Concerto per chance? This is a remarkable work.

If you can find it, there was a recording by Leonid Kogan with Kondrashin.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphony-4-Violin-Concerto-Kogan/dp/B0000266ZS
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: amw on September 15, 2014, 07:18:43 PM
This recording is especially fine:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61vVdRrkIvL.jpg)
I actually went and compared a bunch of recordings of the Piano Quintet on Qobuz when I first got it. This one's almost certainly the best. Second best is the one paired with the Shostakovich Quintet on Hänssler I think.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 15, 2014, 07:19:24 PM
If you can find it, there was a recording by Leonid Kogan with Kondrashin.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphony-4-Violin-Concerto-Kogan/dp/B0000266ZS

Good lord look at that price. :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 15, 2014, 07:43:04 PM
I actually went and compared a bunch of recordings of the Piano Quintet on Qobuz when I first got it. This one's almost certainly the best. Second best is the one paired with the Shostakovich Quintet on Hänssler I think.

Yep, that's a good one on Hanssler, but this one from the Arc Ensemble is just in a different stratosphere altogether.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on September 16, 2014, 03:40:41 PM
Good lord look at that price. :)

Yeah, I 'm not recommending the Kogan/Kondrashin recording at that price, particularly as I think the Grubert recording is pretty good and this newer one seems promising, but if you see it for $10 or Melodiya reissues it...
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: André on September 16, 2014, 04:27:02 PM
I have about half of his symphonies, which I find mostly very good, some excellent. Some chamber music, too, like his violin sonatas. But the qvartets have eluded me so far and I can't wait to start investigating them (should receive the CPO box in a fortnight).

What should I expect ?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 16, 2014, 04:29:35 PM
Yeah, I 'm not recommending the Kogan/Kondrashin recording at that price, particularly as I think the Grubert recording is pretty good and this newer one seems promising, but if you see it for $10 or Melodiya reissues it...

No doubt. I wish these Weinberg Olympia recordings would get reissued.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on September 17, 2014, 09:47:04 AM
Am enjoying Symphony 21.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on September 17, 2014, 03:28:40 PM
Am enjoying Symphony 21.
I also enjoyed the symphony.  I especially enjoyed the quotation of the 3rd movement of the Solo double Bass sonata in the 3rd movement (could be wrong on specific movement of the symphony) and the subsequent klezmer section
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 17, 2014, 04:38:56 PM
Am enjoying Symphony 21.

Coincidently, I just bought that Toccata Classics recording tonight (coupled w/ Polish Tunes).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: TheGSMoeller on February 24, 2015, 02:56:50 PM
Lyric Opera Of Chicago Broadcasts
The Passenger by Mieczyslaw Weinberg,
with Amanda Majeski, Daveda Karanas and Brandon Jovanovich. Conducted by Andrew Davis
Tonight! at 8:15pm Eastern/7:15 pm Central

Listen to it LIVE on...
http://www.wfmt.com/

More information on the production...
http://www.lyricopera.org/passenger/
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 25, 2015, 02:45:47 AM
Missed it, bummer!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Cato on February 25, 2015, 04:22:53 AM
Missed it, bummer!

You 'n' me both!

I have always wondered about the Lyric Opera: does that mean they will not sing Wagner ?   0:)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: springrite on February 25, 2015, 04:33:46 AM
You 'n' me both!

I have always wondered about the Lyric Opera: does that mean they will not sing Wagner ?   0:)

No. They recite the lyrics. It's like poetry reading.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 25, 2015, 05:59:10 AM
No. They recite the lyrics. It's like poetry reading.

http://www.youtube.com/v/GlkoQ4bUE5k
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Cato on February 25, 2015, 06:34:05 AM
No. They recite the lyrics. It's like poetry reading.

Aha!  Sprechstimme!  So they would not be averse ( :P) to Schoenberg !   $:)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: snyprrr on February 25, 2015, 07:49:24 AM
So which SQ is TheOne? Again, haven't heard any MW I've liked so far (any).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on February 25, 2015, 10:00:25 AM
So which SQ is TheOne? Again, haven't heard any MW I've liked so far (any).

Probably this one (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000E1JO8E/goodmusicguide-20), if you have to limit yourself.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: TheGSMoeller on February 26, 2015, 04:02:22 AM
Lyric Opera Of Chicago Broadcasts
The Passenger by Mieczyslaw Weinberg,
with Amanda Majeski, Daveda Karanas and Brandon Jovanovich. Conducted by Andrew Davis
Tonight! at 8:15pm Eastern/7:15 pm Central

Listen to it LIVE on...
http://www.wfmt.com/

More information on the production...
http://www.lyricopera.org/passenger/

A few reviews, both positive, about this performance. I unfortunatly cannot open/link the Chicago Tribune article, not a paying customer I presume. But here's one from Chicago Classical Review.


http://chicagoclassicalreview.com/2015/02/lyric-opera-closes-season-with-weinbergs-moving-powerful-passenger/
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on February 26, 2015, 05:43:12 AM
The opera looks interesting, I wonder if a DVD or some such thing will appear any time soon?


It is on DVD and Blu ray already.

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on February 26, 2015, 06:26:29 AM
amazon.it have it:

http://www.amazon.it/Passenger-Mieczyzlaw-Weinberg/dp/B004BIP0UW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424960750&sr=8-1&keywords=B004BIP0UW (http://www.amazon.it/Passenger-Mieczyzlaw-Weinberg/dp/B004BIP0UW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424960750&sr=8-1&keywords=B004BIP0UW)

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on February 26, 2015, 06:50:00 AM
Thanks.  All I can find on Amazon US is the Blu-ray format.

What you want is the international version... That, the Chicago version is (as opposed to the mono-language version done in Houston, NYC and London et al.) -- and also the Bregenz version.

Maybe you have to go via the UK to find it on DVD. Link here (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004BIP0UW/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=B004BIP0UW&linkCode=as2&tag=ionarts-21&linkId=667VSZCGZ3LS3C3S).

Meanwhile I hope The Iditot will be recorded in as good a performance as the premiere was (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/07/mieczysaw-weinbergs-idiot-awe-inspiring.html). As an opera, it's even better than the Passenger, I find.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on April 18, 2015, 11:24:39 PM
This is my favourite recorded performance of any Weinberg work; Kondrashin's epic performance of Symphony 5 which first alerted me to the importance of this composer when I took the Melodiya LP out of the record library in London many decades ago. Now Melodiya are releasing it on CD which is very good news. It was once on a Russian Disc CD but I suspect that the Melodiya will be a better transfer. In my view this is the only symphony, along with Popov's No.1, which can stand alongside Shostakovich's 4th Symphony:

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on April 19, 2015, 01:18:21 AM
Th. In my view this is the only symphony, along with Popov's No.1, which can stand alongside Shostakovich's 4th Symphony:


You mean Russianwise I suppose?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on April 19, 2015, 01:35:32 AM
You mean Russianwise I suppose?
Not sure what you mean.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on April 19, 2015, 01:43:05 AM
Not sure what you mean.

"In my view this is the only symphony, along with Popov's No.1, which can stand alongside Shostakovich's 4th Symphony"

As in ever (including Beethoven, Mahler, Bruckner etc)? Or amongst Russin symphonies?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on April 19, 2015, 06:39:09 AM
"In my view this is the only symphony, along with Popov's No.1, which can stand alongside Shostakovich's 4th Symphony"

As in ever (including Beethoven, Mahler, Bruckner etc)? Or amongst Russin symphonies?

Oh I see! I meant more or less contemporaneous ones which have (IMHO) a similarly manic cataclysmic quality to them. I know that the Weinberg is later. I should have made what I meant clearer.  ::)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: André on April 19, 2015, 10:07:45 AM
You almost had me ordering this, Jeffrey - until I checked my shelves and discovered I had these two interps already (thanks to you in the case of # 5)  :P. These are on Russian Disc cds. Maybe the Melodiya sound is better ?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on April 21, 2015, 09:21:04 AM
New release this year: Weinberg - Weinberg - Hartmann - Shostakovich
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Rons_talking on April 22, 2015, 02:50:08 AM
This is my favourite recorded performance of any Weinberg work; Kondrashin's epic performance of Symphony 5 which first alerted me to the importance of this composer when I took the Melodiya LP out of the record library in London many decades ago. Now Melodiya are releasing it on CD which is very good news. It was once on a Russian Disc CD but I suspect that the Melodiya will be a better transfer. In my view this is the only symphony, along with Popov's No.1, which can stand alongside Shostakovich's 4th Symphony:



Agreed. The scope and emotion that is so skillfully crafted into a continuous build-up is worthy of the best of Russian symphonies in the modern era.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on April 22, 2015, 12:07:18 PM
You almost had me ordering this, Jeffrey - until I checked my shelves and discovered I had these two interps already (thanks to you in the case of # 5)  :P. These are on Russian Disc cds. Maybe the Melodiya sound is better ?

I'll let you know Andre.  :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on April 22, 2015, 12:08:00 PM
Agreed. The scope and emotion that is so skillfully crafted into a continuous build-up is worthy of the best of Russian symphonies in the modern era.

Oh yes, his best symphony I think.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on May 08, 2015, 10:37:53 PM
This is my favourite recorded performance of any Weinberg work; Kondrashin's epic performance of Symphony 5 which first alerted me to the importance of this composer when I took the Melodiya LP out of the record library in London many decades ago. Now Melodiya are releasing it on CD which is very good news. It was once on a Russian Disc CD but I suspect that the Melodiya will be a better transfer. In my view this is the only symphony, along with Popov's No.1, which can stand alongside Shostakovich's 4th Symphony:



The transfer is much clearer than the Russian Disc version in my opinion. No.5 (dedicated to Kondrashin) is of the greatest 20th century symphonies in my opinion - a truly tragic and visionary work. I also like symphonies 1,3 and 6 of those I know but No.5 is desert island material - a wonderful score.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996) WHAT AM I MISSING????
Post by: snyprrr on May 11, 2015, 04:21:04 AM
Piano Quintet (Kopelman Quartet; Kopelman/Nimbus)


Mmmm,... Just not getting into his PQ? I used to have the Olympia recording- old- which I recall not liking (of course I wanted something like Shosty at the time). This recording is of course beautiful, with great playing- laying bare the music to speak for itself- and- meh- uh-  what am I missing? It sounds like "complicated" Shosty to me- I wanted that "natural" way that Shosty builds his slow movements with traditional melodies of beauty- Vainberg seems to have something to prove (Jewish thing?).

eh???
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 11, 2015, 04:34:07 AM
Piano Quintet (Kopelman Quartet; Kopelman/Nimbus)


Mmmm,... Just not getting into his PQ? I used to have the Olympia recording- old- which I recall not liking (of course I wanted something like Shosty at the time). This recording is of course beautiful, with great playing- laying bare the music to speak for itself- and- meh- uh-  what am I missing?

I have this 'un, which I find beautifully played, and entirely engaging music.

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: amw on May 11, 2015, 04:43:37 AM
I have this 'un, which I find beautifully played, and entirely engaging music.


That's the second best one. The best is this one:

https://play.spotify.com/album/2k56nzA4he4NZKMMYpyj83
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 11, 2015, 04:44:42 AM
That's the second best one. The best is this one:

https://play.spotify.com/album/2k56nzA4he4NZKMMYpyj83

Can't mash that link at present;  can you inform me somehow?  ;)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: amw on May 11, 2015, 04:50:27 AM
Can't mash that link at present;  can you inform me somehow?  ;)

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 11, 2015, 05:18:41 AM



Thanks;  looks too good (and too inexpensive) to pass up!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 14, 2015, 01:57:17 AM
Thanks;  looks too good (and too inexpensive) to pass up!

And landed yesterday.

Separately:  Did we know?— http://www.weinbergsociety.com/
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on June 08, 2015, 06:39:31 AM


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VJs8bKVUL.jpg)
K.A. Hartmann, M. Weinberg, D. Shostakovich,
Concerto funebre, Concertino op.42,
Rhapsody on Moldavian Themes op.47/3*,
Unfinished Sonata for Violin & Piano*

Linus Roth / Ruben Gazarian / Würtemberg CO Heilbronn
Challenge Records SACD (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00XQF73GA/goodmusicguide-20)
German link (http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00XQF73GA/goodmusicguide-21) - UK link (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00XQF73GA/goodmusicguideuk-21)

(not available in the US yet)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on August 23, 2015, 11:59:50 AM
The transfer is much clearer than the Russian Disc version in my opinion. No.5 (dedicated to Kondrashin) is of the greatest 20th century symphonies in my opinion - a truly tragic and visionary work. I also like symphonies 1,3 and 6 of those I know but No.5 is desert island material - a wonderful score.

I agree Jeffrey! Such a harrowing, haunting work. Dare I say that it challenges any of Shostakovich's more acclaimed symphonies. It's just that good. Also, I bought this Melodiya on your recommendation as it will supplement the burned copy you sent awhile back. 8)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on August 23, 2015, 02:52:03 PM
I ordered my first Weinberg disc (Cello Sonatas on Naxos) two weeks ago. Still waiting for it. Royal Mail became slow as hell couple of years ago. My orders used to arrive within one week from UK to Finland. Now 10 days is ultra fast, 2 weeks typical and sometimes 3 weeks! How can it take 3 weeks to deliver a f'cking CD from UK to Finland? I don't understand. How about improving mail service instead of ruining it? Wouldn't that be cool? Apparently not. So, I will be waiting for my CDs here... ...when they finally arrive I have forgotten I ever bought them.  ::)

I saw The Passenger on TV some time ago and got interested of Weinberg (a completely new composer for me). It's somewhat intimidating to be at this position waiting for my first disc of a composer. Reading your messages makes me think: Okay, you found Weinberg 30 years ago or 10 years ago and you know tons of his works. Well, I happened to find him only recently and I'm in the beginning. I'm not going to feel inferior! I know music you others don't know about. Some of you have only recently found the music of Carl Nielsen while I found his music almost 20 years ago.

At the moment I can't discuss much about Weinberg. Maybe later. It seem the RCA chamber music disc would a good choice...
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on August 23, 2015, 03:03:44 PM
It doesn't really matter when we find a composer's music just as long as we find it. That's my philosophy anyway. I urge you, 71 dB, to listen to Symphony No. 5. Since you're really into Naxos recordings, there's quite a good series (so far) of Weinberg symphonies and other orchestral works with Vladimir Lande/St. Petersburg State Symphony Orchestra.

FWIW, that chamber recording on RCA with the Piano Quintet is top-drawer. Definitely worth your time.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on August 24, 2015, 06:36:24 AM
The Naxos Cello Sonatas disc 8.570333 arrived finally today!  :) I'm listening to it while writing this. Sounds good. I like!

It doesn't really matter when we find a composer's music just as long as we find it. That's my philosophy anyway. I urge you, 71 dB, to listen to Symphony No. 5. Since you're really into Naxos recordings, there's quite a good series (so far) of Weinberg symphonies and other orchestral works with Vladimir Lande/St. Petersburg State Symphony Orchestra.

FWIW, that chamber recording on RCA with the Piano Quintet is top-drawer. Definitely worth your time.

Weinberg seems to be more or less "my cup of tea" so I definitely intend to explored his symphonies. Thanks for the recommendations. I'll take this exploration slowly so please don't expect me to know every recorded work by Weinberg by next week.  ;D My main exploration project currently is scanning "contemporary" composers.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on August 24, 2015, 08:05:56 AM
The Naxos Cello Sonatas disc 8.570333 arrived finally today!  :) I'm listening to it while writing this. Sounds good. I like!

Weinberg seems to be more or less "my cup of tea" so I definitely intend to explored his symphonies. Thanks for the recommendations. I'll take this exploration slowly so please don't expect me to know every recorded work by Weinberg by next week.  ;D My main exploration project currently is scanning "contemporary" composers.

Excellent, 71 dB! Yeah, I wouldn't expect you to know every work by Weinberg by next week. :) Take your time, but, rest assured, Weinberg is very much worth your time. Some people have even likened Weinberg as the greatest Soviet composer after Prokofiev and Shostakovich. Hearing a work like his Symphony No. 5 or the Cello Concerto, I certainly won't argue with such an opinion.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on August 24, 2015, 04:44:13 PM
It doesn't really matter when we find a composer's music just as long as we find it. That's my philosophy anyway. I urge you, 71 dB, to listen to Symphony No. 5. Since you're really into Naxos recordings, there's quite a good series (so far) of Weinberg symphonies and other orchestral works with Vladimir Lande/St. Petersburg State Symphony Orchestra.

FWIW, that chamber recording on RCA with the Piano Quintet is top-drawer. Definitely worth your time.
I think most, if not all, of his chamber works are fantastic.  But the Piano Quintet is special.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on August 24, 2015, 04:46:11 PM
I think most, if not all, of his chamber works are fantastic.  But the Piano Quintet is special.

I can't argue with my Weinberg buddy. 8)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on August 24, 2015, 04:52:42 PM
I am hoping that the Pacifica Quartet someday does the complete String Quartet cycle.  I love Danel Quartet's set, but it would be nice to have a rival cycle.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on August 24, 2015, 05:03:50 PM
I am hoping that the Pacifica Quartet someday does the complete String Quartet cycle.  I love Danel Quartet's set, but it would be nice to have a rival cycle.

I can't say I know any of Weinberg's SQs, but I'm not a huge fan of the medium TBH.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scion7 on August 25, 2015, 08:00:38 PM
This guy was a hidden talent and I'm glad that these days his works are available and known to the rest of the world.  Great chamber music and orchestral works.  Being a Jew in communist Russia was not an easy life.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on August 25, 2015, 09:47:55 PM
This guy was a hidden talent and I'm glad that these days his works are available and known to the rest of the world.  Great chamber music and orchestral works.  Being a Jew in communist Russia was not an easy life.

That's true. He was, I think, of Polish origin and all the rest of his family were killed in the Holocaust.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on September 07, 2015, 07:43:22 AM
I definitely enjoy Weinberg's Piano Quintet, Op. 18 (Arc Ensemble). The highlight of this work for me is the solo piano section in Largo starting at 4 minutes. I love the calm, maternal and comforting feel of it. The feel is similar to what I get from some of John Williams' music for the movie A.I. Artificial Intelligence.

The rest of the RCA disc is less satisfying. The Sonata for Clarinet and Piano just isn't very strong and 'Jewish songs' just aren't my cup of tea. In fact Weinberg might not be as suitable for my taste I have presumed. I started exploring his symphonies on Spotify. Many of his symphonies use choir singing "Polish choir music", something not my cup of tea either. Well, Weinberg seemed too good to be true. So, I need to select my Weinberg carefully. The Naxos Cello Sonatas disc I bought for my first Weinberg seems to have been a good choice! I need my Weinberg without Polish choir singing and Jewish songs.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 07, 2015, 10:45:05 AM
I can only imagine what you're reaction will be to Schnittke or Takemitsu (whenever you get around to them). :laugh:

Yeah, the strongest work on that RCA recording is the Piano Quintet. There's no doubt that this work was worth the price of admission.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on September 07, 2015, 08:01:42 PM
I can only imagine what you're reaction will be to Schnittke or Takemitsu (whenever you get around to them). :laugh:

I have Schittke's Piano Quintet and it gives me headache. :-X
I'm interested of Takemitsu, but as letter 'G' at the moment.

Yeah, the strongest work on that RCA recording is the Piano Quintet. There's no doubt that this work was worth the price of admission.
Yes, almost 45 minutes long work.  ;)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Jo498 on September 07, 2015, 10:06:25 PM
I have heard little Weinberg but the violin concerto on Naxos is pretty good. No choir or Yiddish either.
(I also was slightly disappointed by that RCA disc, especially by the "fillers" but those are obviously fairly slight and early works so it was more a matter of unrealistic expectations.)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scion7 on September 07, 2015, 10:23:22 PM
I ordered my first Weinberg disc two weeks ago. Still waiting for it. Royal Mail became slow as hell couple of years ago. My orders used to arrive within one week from UK to Finland. Now 10 days is ultra fast, 2 weeks typical and sometimes 3 weeks! How can it take 3 weeks to deliver a f'cking CD from UK to Finland? I don't understand. ... ...when they finally arrive I have forgotten I ever bought them.  ::)

Fop at the GBA who handles overseas shipments looks at 71 dB's invoice for his Weinberg order.
"Weinberg?  Never heard of him - hmmmm ...."
Puts pkg in his briefcase, takes it home, carefully steams open the box, opens CD, listens to it for a couple of days . . .
Re-seals everything up using department's tools so that it looks like it's never been interfered with, completes processing of the package, off to the boat ...

Cargo ship navigates the Channel, drops anchor so crew can listen to pirate radio stations for a couple of days, steams off for the Baltic Sea, dodges Russian submarines in Finland's territorial waters, docks at Helsinki.

Bloke at the Finnish Royal Mail warehouse depot looks at invoice for 71 dB's package.
"Weinberg?  Never heard of him - hmmmm ...."
Puts pkg in his briefcase, takes it home, carefully steams open the box . . . .

 :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: amw on September 08, 2015, 01:54:04 AM
I have heard little Weinberg but the violin concerto on Naxos is pretty good. No choir or Yiddish either.
(I also was slightly disappointed by that RCA disc, especially by the "fillers" but those are obviously fairly slight and early works so it was more a matter of unrealistic expectations.)
The main reason for having the RCA disc is to have the best performance of the Piano Quintet on record. If you really don't like the fillers and aren't picky about performances I suppose you could instead get the nearly-best performance of the Piano Quintet which is on Hänssler featuring Matthias Kirschneahfethetetet6et4hngnaweihe and, I think, the Szymanowski Quartet? And comes coupled with the Shostakovich Piano Quintet which is an unimpeachable masterpiece although I've never liked it myself.

The other Weinberg discs 'to have' are the ones with Kondrashin conducting Symphonies 5 and 6, something with the Trumpet Concerto (I recommend not the one on NEOS) and something with the Cello Concerto (Rostropovich probably best, but the Chandos one is fine too). Violin Concerto also very fine (recommend the Naxos one over the Challenge Classics—there's undoubtedly an Oistrakh or something, but I haven't heard it yet)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Jo498 on September 08, 2015, 02:07:39 AM
As almost everyone who gets interested in Weinberg will probably have at least one recording of the Shosty piano quintet already (I think I have five or so), the RCA disc seems better value in most cases. I do not regret buying it and I bought it mainly for the quintet but I would have to relisten to say anything about the music. As I recall I found even the quintet not quite as gripping as I had expected.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scion7 on September 08, 2015, 03:14:04 AM
The Olympia CD of the Piano Quintet has the advantage of the composer's own performance on the piano, though.  1963 is not ancient, exactly.                                                                                                           
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on September 08, 2015, 09:53:37 AM
The other Weinberg discs 'to have' are the ones with Kondrashin conducting Symphonies 5 and 6,
You mean Symphonies 5 and 610 ?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: amw on September 08, 2015, 11:20:44 AM
You mean Symphonies 5 and 610 ?
No. Two CDs. Symphonies 5 & 10 (5 is the one to hear) and 4 & 6 (6 is the one to hear).

No one knows how to pair Weinberg properly >.>
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on September 18, 2015, 07:52:47 PM
I have heard little Weinberg but the violin concerto on Naxos is pretty good.

It's certainly not bad, but there are two better recordings, a classic one by Kogan in good stereo (the couplings are mono),



and the recent one by Linus Roth


Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Wieland on September 25, 2015, 07:35:46 AM
The latest addition to the Weinberg discography comes from the German cpo label. Unfortunately, it doubles some of the repertoire of last years Kremerata's double CD, which many Weinberg aficionados may already have i.e. the violin concertino as well as symphony No. 10. The Concertino is Weinbergs earliest concerto, it was composed in 1948 between the 1. Sinfonietta and the Celloconcert.  Even people not used to modern music will not have problems with this easy-going piece. Right from the beginning of 1. mov there is prominent theme that is repeated several times by the violin throughout. A wonderful adagio and a busy finale round up this nice little concerto. The orchestral part was obviously written with student or youth orchestras in mind, the solo part, however, requires a real soloist. Which the young polish violinist Ewelina Nowicka http://www.ewelinanowicka.com/DE/index.php (http://www.ewelinanowicka.com/DE/index.php) obviously is. There is an amazing difference between this performance and the one by Gidon Kremer, the former one taking 21 min, the latter one only 16 min. Just in the 1. mov the difference is 2.5 min within an 8 min movement. Currently, I prefer the slower version on cpo which brings out better the melancholy of the piece.
The 37 min 10th symphony is a different world. Actually I listed to this piece 2-3 times and still have to make up my mind. It was composed in 1968 for Rudolf Barshai's Chamber Orchestra and is more reminiscent of the late music of Shostakovich such as his viola sonata. It actually contains a lot of cadenzas for solo instruments (violin, viola and cello). One or two more hearings necessary.

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on September 25, 2015, 11:09:25 AM
I have never enjoyed anything of his as much as Symphony 5 which I think is an out and out masterpiece. However I rate the Piano Quintet very highly and symphonies 1,3 and 6 of those that I have heard.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on September 25, 2015, 11:41:43 AM
Have you listened to any of the string quartets?  Those are the works of his that I listen to almost exclusively.
No, so they will be my next port of call. Thank you.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Wieland on September 25, 2015, 12:54:05 PM
Have you listened to any of the string quartets?  Those are the works of his that I listen to almost exclusively.

No, so they will be my next port of call. Thank you.

A good idea, since these works are really remarkable. I am still only half-way through the cycle but it has been already a very stimulating journey.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scion7 on September 25, 2015, 01:14:35 PM
Well all of the chamber and orchestral pieces I've heard from this guy have been solid.
He was totally unknown to me until fairly recently.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Artem on September 25, 2015, 06:31:50 PM
Does anybody own the box set with the string quartets? How are the liner notes? Are they the same as on the individual CDs?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on September 25, 2015, 06:54:51 PM
Does anybody own the box set with the string quartets? How are the liner notes? Are they the same as on the individual CDs?

I would imagine that, in true CPO fashion, the box set is nothing more than the original releases boxed up in an outer box. This makes for some heavy lifting if you've got something like their Pettersson box set which housed all of those original releases. :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Artem on September 25, 2015, 07:19:13 PM
Good to know. Thank you.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Wieland on September 26, 2015, 11:41:34 AM
Does anybody own the box set with the string quartets? How are the liner notes? Are they the same as on the individual CDs?
Definitely, cpo always only puts together the original CDs incl. Booklets in a card-box. You will get all the original liner notes.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on September 26, 2015, 11:35:58 PM
Bringing this conversation to a more proper place:

I wouldn't want to be without Shostakovich, but Weinberg is an excellent composer in his own right. The problem with Weinberg seems to be the quality of some of his music isn't on the same consistent scale as Shostakovich's whether you favor one over another is a different matter, but I just think Shostakovich tapped into that Soviet psyche and what it meant to be a Russian living in those grueling Stalin years. Weinberg can be a bit more lyrical than Shostakovich, but, again, I like both composers, but I'll always choose Shostakovich as his music is more in-line with my own personality and, more importantly, how I feel. If I had to pick a favorite Weinberg work it would be his Symphony No. 5 (Kondrashin performance only). The slow movement alone is a miniature masterpiece. I may even prefer this symphony to Shostakovich's own. :-\ :)

Obviously Shostakovich is a million times more popular composer. Only about a year ago Weinberg was only a name for me without any interest. Weinberg is to Shostakovich what Taneyev is to Tchaikovsky. I won't commend on the quality of the music, but Weinberg's style suites better my taste. Maybe it's living as a Finn next to Russia making me feel I have my share of "Soviet psyche" without any music.

My favorite work by Shostakovich by far is 24 Preludes and Fugues, Op. 87. Shostakovich's Symphonies I find dull, at least the few I know (I don't have interest to explore them further). Shostakovich's concertos seems to work much better for me than the symphonies. I quite like them.

My favorite work by Weinberg is too soon to tell.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Wieland on September 27, 2015, 11:02:49 AM
Weinberg finished 21 symphonies, not all of them have been recorded so far, I believe 11 and 13 are still waiting. Anyway, the more I listen to the late symphonies, the more at least for me, his main contribution seems to be here. Today, I listened again to his 20th symphony. Already from the outlook, a strange work. Two 12-min Largos surround three smaller movements, all more of less scherzos. The largos of course are the main dish, deeply felt music which really goes to the centre of your heart. The three scherzos are desperately trying to be positive, but fail to do so. When Weinberg was writing this, his personal situation was not good. Although it was already glasnost time and the pressure on artists relieved, he was in a depressing situation. Many of his friends (like DSCH) already dead, his supporters mainly now living the west and a new generation of composers (Schnittke, Gubaidulina, Denissov) being considered as the Russian avantgarde. So he was almost forgotten and in addition harmed by a serious chronic disease. Still, he was able to pull of a symphony of the first order. Just listen to the "simple" final pages of this symphony, no one except Mahler and Shostakovich could do it in this way. For me, one of the best works of this still undervalued composer.
If you buy this CD and don't like this work, there is still the early cello concerto which is much more easy-going and one of the nicest works written for this instrument in the 20th century.

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scion7 on September 27, 2015, 09:58:57 PM
Well, he was an excellent craftsman of chamber music - very fine works.

I enjoy the orchestral music, too.   I've only heard the 3rd piano sonata - I need to dig into these at some point.

I think as time goes on, his work will be more and more appreciated.  Certainly one of the finest 20th century composers from Poland, and one who took an admirable stance against the Soviet system when it was very dangerous to do so, doubly so by being a Jew under the Stalinist regime living in the USSR.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Wieland on September 29, 2015, 08:01:33 AM
Listened again to SQ 7 today, what a wonderful piece, two heartfelt Adagios surrounding an Allegretto. As good as any DSCH quartet and a good start for any newcomer.

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on December 15, 2015, 06:39:42 PM
Just curious, does anyone have the new DVD of The Passenger? I am curious about it, it seems to be the same production as the blu ray.  Is this the case, or is it worth buying a 2nd version?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on December 16, 2015, 01:30:20 AM
Weinberg finished 21 symphonies, not all of them have been recorded so far, I believe 11 and 13 are still waiting. Anyway, the more I listen to the late symphonies, the more at least for me, his main contribution seems to be here. Today, I listened again to his 20th symphony. Already from the outlook, a strange work. Two 12-min Largos surround three smaller movements, all more of less scherzos. The largos of course are the main dish, deeply felt music which really goes to the centre of your heart. The three scherzos are desperately trying to be positive, but fail to do so. When Weinberg was writing this, his personal situation was not good. Although it was already glasnost time and the pressure on artists relieved, he was in a depressing situation. Many of his friends (like DSCH) already dead, his supporters mainly now living the west and a new generation of composers (Schnittke, Gubaidulina, Denissov) being considered as the Russian avantgarde. So he was almost forgotten and in addition harmed by a serious chronic disease. Still, he was able to pull of a symphony of the first order. Just listen to the "simple" final pages of this symphony, no one except Mahler and Shostakovich could do it in this way. For me, one of the best works of this still undervalued composer.
If you buy this CD and don't like this work, there is still the early cello concerto which is much more easy-going and one of the nicest works written for this instrument in the 20th century.


Am tempted by this release but I already have the Cello Concerto coupled with Symphony 1 on the Northern Flowers label. Symphonies 1,3,5 and 6 are my favourites of those I have heard.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on January 16, 2016, 05:03:27 AM
I thought the marimba theme in the beginning of the finale of Weinberg's Symphony #12 is a good "ringtone" for a mobile phone.

So, I ripped the finale from the Naxos disc I have and opened the wav-file in Audacity. I took the first 15 seconds or so and cut away the rest 17 minutes. Since mobile phones are monophonic sound sources, I transformed the stereo track into a mono track. I used a special algorithm I wrote a year ago to do that (a Nyquist-plugin for Audacity). Normal mono omids all out of phase information of a stereo track. My "vivid mono" algorithm adds delayed out of phase information at higher frequencies to the "in phase" information so that the signals do not cancel each other (there are frequency response effects but nothing serious).

Vivid mono is still mono, but it preserves much of the "sparkle" of stereophonic tracks caused by out of phase information. Normal stereo to mono sounds "dead" and cold compared to vivid mono. Mono tracks which were originally (recorded) mono are "vivid", because there hasn't been stereo to mono transformation to omid things selectively.

I also filtered low frequencies away (48 dB/oct @ 100 Hz and 6 dB/oct @ 200 Hz). These lower frequencies cause only distortion when the phone tries to play them. I made a 64 kbps mp3 mono file and transferred it to my phone. My phone is Weinberged now.  :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scion7 on January 16, 2016, 05:33:24 AM
All that trouble for the sound quality of a cellphone?   :D
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on January 16, 2016, 06:01:28 AM
All that trouble for the sound quality of a cellphone?   :D
Yes. Shitty quality at it's best!

I am interested of these things. My undestanding of sound improves with these tests. Who knows where this knowledge can be used for greater benefits?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 16, 2016, 06:19:19 AM
I thought the marimba theme in the beginning of the finale of Weinberg's Symphony #12 is a good "ringtone" for a mobile phone.

So, I ripped the finale from the Naxos disc I have and opened the wav-file in Audacity. I took the first 15 seconds or so and cut away the rest 17 minutes. Since mobile phones are monophonic sound sources, I transformed the stereo track into a mono track. I used a special algorithm I wrote a year ago to do that (a Nyquist-plugin for Audacity). Normal mono omids all out of phase information of a stereo track. My "vivid mono" algorithm adds delayed out of phase information at higher frequencies to the "in phase" information so that the signals do not cancel each other (there are frequency response effects but nothing serious).

Vivid mono is still mono, but it preserves much of the "sparkle" of stereophonic tracks caused by out of phase information. Normal stereo to mono sounds "dead" and cold compared to vivid mono. Mono tracks which were originally (recorded) mono are "vivid", because there hasn't been stereo to mono transformation to omid things selectively.

I also filtered low frequencies away (48 dB/oct @ 100 Hz and 6 dB/oct @ 200 Hz). These lower frequencies cause only distortion when the phone tries to play them. I made a 64 kbps mp3 mono file and transferred it to my phone. My phone is Weinberged now.  :)

Thanks for sharing? :-\
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on January 16, 2016, 06:29:59 AM
Thanks for sharing? :-\

Copyrights? What does Klaus Heymann think?   >:D
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 16, 2016, 09:49:25 AM
Getting back to Weinberg's music, what do you think of the music you've heard so far, 71 dB? I expect a full report by the end of the night. :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on January 16, 2016, 10:30:13 AM
Getting back to Weinberg's music, what do you think of the music you've heard so far, 71 dB? I expect a full report by the end of the night. :)

My last Weinberg purchases were String Quartets which I enjoy a lot. Chamber Weinberg seems to rule. I also like the symphonies I have (12 & 19). Concertos maybe aren't Weinberg's strongest are (?).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 16, 2016, 07:58:11 PM
My last Weinberg purchases were String Quartets which I enjoy a lot. Chamber Weinberg seems to rule. I also like the symphonies I have (12 & 19). Concertos maybe aren't Weinberg's strongest are (?).

The Cello Concerto is very much worth your attention which Brian can attest to as he's been singing its praises for quite some time now. I recommend this work but I also HIGHLY recommend his Symphony No. 5 (the Kondrashin recording).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on January 17, 2016, 01:36:40 AM
The Cello Concerto is very much worth your attention which Brian can attest to as he's been singing its praises for quite some time now. I recommend this work but I also HIGHLY recommend his Symphony No. 5 (the Kondrashin recording).

Ok thanks. Added these to my wishlist.

Oh, The Piano Quintet is a great work. I don't like singing in Weinberg's music.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on January 17, 2016, 08:24:42 AM
My last Weinberg purchases were String Quartets which I enjoy a lot. Chamber Weinberg seems to rule. I also like the symphonies I have (12 & 19). Concertos maybe aren't Weinberg's strongest are (?).

I wouldn't say that, either... the Violin Concerto is rather among his strongest works, actually, and Shostakovich was (coyly) envious that he didn't write it. The other quasi-VCs (i.e. Moldovian Rhapsody) are considerably easier, lighter stuff, with more hints of Khachaturian than DSCH, but very enjoyable to listen to, too!

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2015/12/best-recordings-of-2015-10.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2015/12/best-recordings-of-2015-10.html)

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2014/12/best-recordings-of-2014-9.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2014/12/best-recordings-of-2014-9.html)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: André on January 17, 2016, 10:37:34 AM
If you don't know the Trumpet Concerto, you don't know your Weinberg well enough  :laugh:
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 17, 2016, 11:49:19 AM
If you don't know the Trumpet Concerto, you don't know your Weinberg well enough  :laugh:

Yes, another great work indeed.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on January 17, 2016, 12:01:57 PM
I wouldn't say that, either... the Violin Concerto is rather among his strongest works,
Oh? The Violin Concerto has been a disappointment to me, but maybe I get it's greatness someday...
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on January 17, 2016, 12:06:30 PM
Oh? The Violin Concerto has been a disappointment to me, but maybe I get it's greatness someday...

Which recording?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on January 17, 2016, 12:28:22 PM
Which recording?

Grubert/Yablonsky/Naxos

Should not be a bad performance. I just think Weinberg isn't very original with this work. It sounds as if the concerto is a prisoner of the solo violin and the orchestra (what orchestra plays) seems a bit tame.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 17, 2016, 12:34:49 PM
I'm also not very fond of Weinberg's Violin Concerto. Not a very memorable work and certainly not one of his better compositions IMHO.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on January 17, 2016, 01:10:53 PM
I'm also not very fond of Weinberg's Violin Concerto. Not a very memorable work and certainly not one of his better compositions IMHO.

I'm not saying the Violin Concerto is a bad composition. It's good and Adagio has got the Weinbergian feel and mood, but yes, I have heard more striking works by him.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on January 17, 2016, 01:55:55 PM
I'm not saying the Violin Concerto is a bad composition. It's good and Adagio has got the Weinbergian feel and mood, but yes, I have heard more striking works by him.

Hmmm...I don't recall you saying it was a bad composition. I believe I was the one who remarked it wasn't a particularly strong work.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: relm1 on January 17, 2016, 02:12:54 PM
Just curious, does anyone have the new DVD of The Passenger? I am curious about it, it seems to be the same production as the blu ray.  Is this the case, or is it worth buying a 2nd version?

It is excellent.  Very moving and powerful work with excellent acting.  I could imagine it making quite an impact seeing it live.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: amw on January 17, 2016, 03:58:31 PM
Concertos maybe aren't Weinberg's strongest are (?).
The Cello and Trumpet Concertos are the main exceptions I think, both quite strong works (in different ways)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on January 17, 2016, 09:59:35 PM
The Cello and Trumpet Concertos are the main exceptions I think, both quite strong works (in different ways)

Well, I haven't heard those two works yet.  0:)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on January 19, 2016, 10:07:02 AM
Grubert/Yablonsky/Naxos

Should not be a bad performance. I just think Weinberg isn't very original with this work. It sounds as if the concerto is a prisoner of the solo violin and the orchestra (what orchestra plays) seems a bit tame.

That's an OK performance.  But an performance doesn't have to be bad to fail to connect.  You're description of the music is definitely not what I hear in the Kogan recording.



It's on the streaming services, as well.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on January 19, 2016, 11:51:46 AM
It's on the streaming services, as well.

True. I listened to it on Spotify. Much faster.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scion7 on January 19, 2016, 05:28:12 PM
Well, Shostakovich wasn't always spot-on with his concertos, either - the Cello concertos are very good, his violin concertos tend to meander.  They aren't bad, but they aren't his greatest works.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on February 20, 2016, 09:20:46 AM
Listening to this:



Superb stuff!  0:) Weinberg seems to shine in chamber music. Good sound, great playing. Recommended dics!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Wieland on April 05, 2016, 03:10:48 AM
Over the weekend I listened to this for the first time. The more I get acquainted with his last compositions the more I believe that he is one of the greatest composer of the 20th century.

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: André on April 05, 2016, 06:00:00 AM
*pounds the table*  ;)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on April 05, 2016, 06:00:54 AM
Over the weekend I listened to this for the first time. The more I get acquainted with his last compositions the more I believe that he is one of the greatest composer of the 20th century.


I'm inclined to agree although I don't know the chamber symphonies. Symphony 5 is my favourite work of those I know.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scion7 on June 14, 2016, 09:51:25 PM
Been doing some viola early-morning listening.
This stuff is very good - unaccompanied non-piano pieces of this length - yet still maintaining interest - is not an easy thing to pull off.
Where was this guy all these years?



(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0002/906/MI0002906936.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: The new erato on June 14, 2016, 10:46:35 PM
Listening to this:



Superb stuff!  0:) Weinberg seems to shine in chamber music. Good sound, great playing. Recommended dics!
I totally agree.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on June 14, 2016, 10:58:36 PM
Tempted by this. Any views on it?
Symphony 22 was the last one, orchestrated by someone else after the composer's death.

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: "Harry" on June 15, 2016, 12:14:36 AM
I'm also not very fond of Weinberg's Violin Concerto. Not a very memorable work and certainly not one of his better compositions IMHO.

I would like to agree to disagree. In my opinion the Violin concerto is one of the best works Weinberg wrote.
Always to remember that liking or disliking is a personal choice, and does not say anything about the musical quality of the work.
Do not condemn a work to "certainly not one of his best compositions" on the basis of a personal like or dislike.
Reading the score tells me that this composition is as carefully written as any of his other works. :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on June 15, 2016, 12:25:30 AM
I agree with Harry re: Violin Concerto. Apart from my difference in opinion (I think it's a really, really good work), also with regards to my high opinion (or your low one) not in-and-of-itself making it either great or not great. That's probably where consensus is more useful (or maybe, though not to my taste, a musicological analysis)... and the consensus is that it's not shabby.

Speaking of Weinberg -- a review (in German) about the new set of solo violin sonatas.

http://www.swr.de/swr2/musik/cd-tipps/weinberg-sonaten-fuer-violine-solo-roth/-/id=12628344/did=17593596/nid=12628344/1bdix37/index.html (http://www.swr.de/swr2/musik/cd-tipps/weinberg-sonaten-fuer-violine-solo-roth/-/id=12628344/did=17593596/nid=12628344/1bdix37/index.html)

Been doing some viola early-morning listening.
This stuff is very good - unaccompanied non-piano pieces of this length - yet still maintaining interest - is not an easy thing to pull off.
Where was this guy all these years?

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0002/906/MI0002906936.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

Great stuff, huh! Here's an essay/portrait on that disc, if you are interested:
Through Labor and Love: Weinberg, War and Persecution

Interview with Julia Rebekka Adler
(http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/07/through-labor-and-love-weinberg-war-and.html)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scion7 on June 15, 2016, 04:10:48 AM
I'm going to have to strongly +1 the Violin Concerto, also - very good.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on June 15, 2016, 04:19:04 AM
Yes, that's all very well but what about Symphony 22?
 8) 8)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scion7 on June 15, 2016, 09:05:57 AM
Oh, very WELL, if you're going on and on,
I suppose we can give it a listen:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=WEINBERG-Symphony+No.+22%2C+Op.+154%3A

 :D

I will always be mistrustful of it, however - not being orchestrated by the master himself.
Therein, the seeds of doubt were sown, and a sense of disquiet can never be eliminated.

The initiative to orchestrate Mieczysław Weinberg’s 22nd Symphony and have it performed in the 2003 ‘Moscow Autumn’ festival came from the composer’s widow, Olga Yulyevna Rakhalskaya, and the directors of the Moscow Composers’ Union, in particular its chairman Oleg Borisovich Galakhov. It was Olga Yulyevna who passed the score to me so that I could work on it. Weinberg left the music as a piano score which was very lucidly presented – for example, there was never any doubt as to the notes that he wanted – but only in a few places were there indications of the instrumentation he had in mind or, as in the development of the first movement, sequences of dynamic markings.
Before I started my work on orchestrating the 22nd Symphony, I went through the scores of something like half of Weinberg’s other symphonies in order to study them and to immerse myself more deeply in his symphonic style; I paid especial attention to Symphony No. 21 as the work written immediately before No. 22. But it wasn’t a question of simply ‘applying’ the scoring of his earlier works to this one: I learned from them, naturally, and did my best to understand the principles governing his work, but I tried to let the music of No. 22 suggest its own instrumental colours.
I worked on the orchestration during the winter of 2001 in ‘Ruza’, the Artistic Residence for Composers in the Moscow Region, where in earlier years Weinberg himself often stayed and worked. Awareness of this fact helped me work and inspired me in a special way.
The first performance of the 22nd Symphony took place on 11 November 2003, performed by the Symphony Orchestra of the Belgorod State Philharmonic Society under the direction of Alexander Shadrin.
  ~ by Kirill Umansky





Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on June 15, 2016, 09:51:23 AM
Oh, very WELL, if you're going on and on,
I suppose we can give it a listen:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=WEINBERG-Symphony+No.+22%2C+Op.+154%3A

 :D

I will always be mistrustful of it, however - not being orchestrated by the master himself.
Therein, the seeds of doubt were sown, and a sense of disquiet can never be eliminated.

The initiative to orchestrate Mieczysław Weinberg’s 22nd Symphony and have it performed in the 2003 ‘Moscow Autumn’ festival came from the composer’s widow, Olga Yulyevna Rakhalskaya, and the directors of the Moscow Composers’ Union, in particular its chairman Oleg Borisovich Galakhov. It was Olga Yulyevna who passed the score to me so that I could work on it. Weinberg left the music as a piano score which was very lucidly presented – for example, there was never any doubt as to the notes that he wanted – but only in a few places were there indications of the instrumentation he had in mind or, as in the development of the first movement, sequences of dynamic markings.
Before I started my work on orchestrating the 22nd Symphony, I went through the scores of something like half of Weinberg’s other symphonies in order to study them and to immerse myself more deeply in his symphonic style; I paid especial attention to Symphony No. 21 as the work written immediately before No. 22. But it wasn’t a question of simply ‘applying’ the scoring of his earlier works to this one: I learned from them, naturally, and did my best to understand the principles governing his work, but I tried to let the music of No. 22 suggest its own instrumental colours.
I worked on the orchestration during the winter of 2001 in ‘Ruza’, the Artistic Residence for Composers in the Moscow Region, where in earlier years Weinberg himself often stayed and worked. Awareness of this fact helped me work and inspired me in a special way.
The first performance of the 22nd Symphony took place on 11 November 2003, performed by the Symphony Orchestra of the Belgorod State Philharmonic Society under the direction of Alexander Shadrin.
  ~ by Kirill Umansky
Many thanks for this.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scion7 on June 15, 2016, 10:05:25 AM
Many thanks for this.

Shostakovich might have given it a more authentic treatment - who knows.
In its present form, in any case, I can't call it a favorite.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 15, 2016, 10:14:24 AM
Only Weinberg could have scored it.  All Umansky could do is study the previous scores and use them as guides;  but of course, that is not how the composer would have worked.  He would go beyond what he had done before, which is nothing which Umansky might do with any claim of legitimacy in the endeavor.

Just saying.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on June 15, 2016, 10:51:38 AM
Only Weinberg could have scored it.  All Umansky could do is study the previous scores and use them as guides;  but of course, that is not how the composer would have worked.  He would go beyond what he had done before, which is nothing which Umansky might do with any claim of legitimacy in the endeavor.

Just saying.

In other words, there is only 21 symphonies.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 15, 2016, 10:53:54 AM
And a piano score for the 22nd.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: nathanb on June 15, 2016, 01:42:12 PM
Weinberg was the strangest choice NEOS ever made.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scion7 on June 15, 2016, 03:52:04 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVFRUOMpFwI

I don't think this is available as a studio take?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: jlaurson on June 15, 2016, 10:47:45 PM
Weinberg was the strangest choice NEOS ever made.

Die Passagierin buttered their bread and allowed them to continue what they are doing.
Aside... stranger than recording Beethoven's Third in a HIP-orchestral sized version in the Eroica Hall of the Palais Lobkowitz? (Where it got its first [private] performance?)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on January 01, 2017, 04:14:58 PM
The 10 Best Classical Recordings Of 2016
#10 Weinberg: http://bit.ly/Forbes_Best_Classical_Recordings_2016_New (http://bit.ly/Forbes_Best_Classical_Recordings_2016_New)


Latest on Forbes:

The 10 Best Classical Recordings Of 2016 (New Releases)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1HzdAWXgAArnYh.jpg)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/01/01/the-10-best-classical-recordings-of-2016-new-releases/#7799de0e6802 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/01/01/the-10-best-classical-recordings-of-2016-new-releases/#7799de0e6802)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 22, 2017, 04:14:48 AM
Gidon Kremer played the Violin Concerto at Symphony last night, a wonderful experience.  Much that is exquisitely beautiful, definitely a piece to revisit.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scion7 on January 22, 2017, 10:45:20 AM
Slowly, but surely, the public is being more and more made aware of this composer.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Wieland on February 13, 2017, 01:56:40 PM
Slowly, but surely, the public is being more and more made aware of this composer.
I am just back from a concert with the German Premiere of Weinbergs 21. Symphony. Thomas Sanderling was conducting the Staatsorchester Stuttgart (that's the Opera Orchestra) with Mandy Fredrich as soloist. It was the first time that I experienced a Weinberg symphony live and at one the best seats of the house. A tremendous experience. The music is still turning around in my head. What a gorgeous piece of music. And Thomas Sanderling was mesmerizing and himself mesmerized by the music. The reception by the audience was very good, six or seven calls. Unfortunately, it was not recorded.
(https://www.oper-stuttgart.de/images/singen-ueber-wunden/39268/20150302114535sanderlingn2apicture.jpg).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on February 13, 2017, 02:14:16 PM
Slowly, but surely, the public is being more and more made aware of this composer.

Unfortunately, Weinberg is one of those niche composers that doesn't get much attention aside from some record labels that putting out some of his music. This said, his Symphony No. 5, the Cello Concerto, and the Piano Quintet are my favorites from him.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on February 13, 2017, 02:41:17 PM
Unfortunately, Weinberg is one of those niche composers that doesn't get much attention aside from some record labels that putting out some of his music. This said, his Symphony No. 5, the Cello Concerto, and the Piano Quintet are my favorites from him.
+1 although I don't know the Cello Concerto well. Symphonies 1,3 and 6 are also excellent IMHO.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on February 14, 2017, 12:25:58 AM
Unfortunately, Weinberg is one of those niche composers that doesn't get much attention aside from some record labels that putting out some of his music. This said, his Symphony No. 5, the Cello Concerto, and the Piano Quintet are my favorites from him.

While your comment is generally true, at least it is heartening that many performers (and as you said: several labels) DO find him to be a valuable niche. Programming of Weinberg in 'big spots' (i.e. the concerto or symphony slot) is still difficult, but in recitals he works. And opera houses have found success with his works, especially Bregenz and Mannheim (Passenger / Idiot). In fact, of all the niche-composers, there's probably no other that gets as much attention as does Weinberg, however little that still is in absolute terms.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 12, 2017, 08:27:57 AM
I hope Karlo is a-vacationing.

But I wanted to share that I pulled the trigger on the complete string quartets box.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: North Star on July 12, 2017, 10:15:45 AM
I hope Karlo is a-vacationing.

But I wanted to share that I pulled the trigger on the complete string quartets box.
Returning tomorrow, actually. A wise decision, Karl - I'll have to get back to work on that set soon.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 14, 2017, 05:21:17 AM
Returning tomorrow, actually. A wise decision, Karl - I'll have to get back to work on that set soon.

Very good!  Just got a message to expect delivery late next week.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: André on July 14, 2017, 05:33:14 AM
I had not listened to this in many years.

(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61wvgGMYFjL._SS500.jpg)

Any modern recommendation for the 10th ? This Barshai version is musically excellent, but in mono.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on July 14, 2017, 09:12:19 AM
I had not listened to this in many years.

(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61wvgGMYFjL._SS500.jpg)

Any modern recommendation for the 10th ? This Barshai version is musically excellent, but in mono.

Try the recording with Kremer and Kremerata Baltica, it's a good rendition of this wild and gripping work. BTW, this is one of my favorite ones by Weinberg.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00GY6Z3LA/musicwebuk
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on July 14, 2017, 11:39:05 AM
I had not listened to this in many years.

(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61wvgGMYFjL._SS500.jpg)

Any modern recommendation for the 10th ? This Barshai version is musically excellent, but in mono.
Wonderful performance of Symphony 6 with its children's choir - a very moving work.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: relm1 on July 14, 2017, 03:11:44 PM
I have this one which I am very fond of and find the Shosti piece equally moving.

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/053/MI0001053848.jpg)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: André on July 14, 2017, 05:51:27 PM
The Kremer 10 (+ piano quintet etc) is in my cart ! It is indeed a strange but very compelling work, more's the pity that the mono sound fails to do justice to Barshai's interpretation.

Yes, the 6th is indeed a great work, and Kondrashin loves it immensely !
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on July 14, 2017, 09:55:11 PM
The Kremer 10 (+ piano quintet etc) is in my cart ! It is indeed a strange but very compelling work, more's the pity that the mono sound fails to do justice to Barshai's interpretation.

Yes, the 6th is indeed a great work, and Kondrashin loves it immensely !

Yes indeed re Kondrashin - my favourite soviet-era conductor. I had the LP. Took me a while to realise how moving a work Symphony 6 is. Spiritually linked to Shostakovich's 'Babi-Yar' Symphony 13 in a way. I first heard it in my 20s when I mainly listened to orchestral works. Weinberg's 6th Symphony was one of the first choral works I really appreciated apart from the choral works of Vaughan Williams.
 :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 15, 2017, 03:55:57 AM
The Kremer 10 (+ piano quintet etc) is in my cart ! It is indeed a strange but very compelling work, more's the pity that the mono sound fails to do justice to Barshai's interpretation.

Yes, the 6th is indeed a great work, and Kondrashin loves it immensely !

Yes, the pf quintet is exquisite!  And . . . this means (I think) the third performance of this piece I shall have heard.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: André on July 15, 2017, 04:46:19 AM
I have all the Olympia symphony discs (5 or 6 if I'm not mistaken). A few years ago I made copies of them for a fellow poster (don't remember who), and sent along the booklets, with the proviso that they be returned once copied ( I couldn't be bothered to make copies of all those pages). I never saw the booklets again  >:( .At least I have the music !
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 15, 2017, 04:51:22 AM
I feel your pain!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 17, 2017, 02:36:09 AM
(Cross-post)

Pleased to find that the Quintet (of which I already had two recordings) is an arrangement for piano, string orchestra . . . & percussion.

Less annoyed 0:) than I thought I might be that, in fact, the first three Chamber Symphonies do indeed consist substantially of reworkings of quartets—“The changes between the Second Quartet and the Chamber Symphony № 1 are minor”; “The [Chamber Symphony № 2] is in large part a transcription of his third sting quartet”; “Three out of four movements of the Chamber Symphony № 3 (1990), are either based on or actual transcriptions from his String Quartet № 5 (composed in June/July 1945).”  They are, after all, the composer’s own work of adaptation, and to be sure, I have yet to firm up my acquaintance of even those few of the quartets which I have already heard.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: BasilValentine on July 17, 2017, 01:43:56 PM
I wish someone would record the complete piano sonatas. It is a wonderful and varied body of work that I have been listening to piecemeal on youtube. Not to mention a box set of the complete symphonies. I'd by both immediately.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on July 17, 2017, 02:17:42 PM
I wish someone would record the complete piano sonatas. It is a wonderful and varied body of work that I have been listening to piecemeal on youtube. Not to mention a box set of the complete symphonies. I'd by both immediately.

A complete recording of the sonatas exists, the pianist who performed them is Allison Brewster Franzetti (Grand Piano label), in fact, all the piano works are recorded (at least it says in the set title). They are substantial, highly absorbing. All the symphonies aren't recorded completely (9, 11, 13 and 15 are missing, sadly).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 25, 2017, 05:39:33 AM
I’m working my way backwards through the quartets, now that the box has landed.  Of course, that means hopping from CD to CD.  It’s a rough life ;)

So, having now listened to nos. 17 & 16, I don't mind saying that I feel the box has already vindicated the purchase.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: André on July 25, 2017, 06:08:00 AM
I’m working my way backwards through the quartets, now that the box has landed.  Of course, that means hopping from CD to CD.  It’s a rough life ;)

So, having now listened to nos. 17 & 16, I don't mind saying that I feel the box has already vindicated the purchase.


I guess I should do something like that, but knowing me, I'd probably start with the 1st quartet, not the last. When I listened to the box (disc by disc, each one having its own 'program') I had good moments, but the whole failed to impress me as I suspect it should have. A reappraisal is in order.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: BasilValentine on July 25, 2017, 06:52:10 AM
A complete recording of the sonatas exists, the pianist who performed them is Allison Brewster Franzetti (Grand Piano label), in fact, all the piano works are recorded (at least it says in the set title). They are substantial, highly absorbing. All the symphonies aren't recorded completely (9, 11, 13 and 15 are missing, sadly).

Thanks! I'll do another, more specific, search.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on July 25, 2017, 10:31:33 AM
A complete recording of the sonatas exists, the pianist who performed them is Allison Brewster Franzetti (Grand Piano label), in fact, all the piano works are recorded (at least it says in the set title). They are substantial, highly absorbing. All the symphonies aren't recorded completely (9, 11, 13 and 15 are missing, sadly).

Unfortunately Allison Brewster Franzetti really isn't a particularly interesting pianist. Even Jascha Nemtsov would be (is) better, and he's not terribly good, either. I'm hoping on oh... whatshisname... records a lot of all Schumann for Haenssler... Florian Uhlig! I hope he or someone of his caliber will tackle the sonatas before long.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 09, 2017, 08:42:49 AM
And Weinberg was by all accounts such a good pianist (recall the four-hands recording of the Shostakovich Tenth with the composer), his piano sonatas demand a first-rate outing.

Separately . . .

Quote from: David Fanning
[...] respect and influence between Shostakovich and Weinberg were mutual.  Both left an imposing body of symphonies amd string quartets — in Weinberg’s case numbering 26 and 17, respectively.  In addition Weinberg composed six concertos, seven operas, three ballets, four cantatas, some 23 sonatas and upwards of 200 songs.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: amw on August 09, 2017, 11:56:27 AM
Murray McLachlan recorded the complete sonatas on Olympia ages ago and they may still be available somewhere, I'm not sure. Perhaps a Melodiya reissue is likely in the future. I have no issues with his performances.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: North Star on August 09, 2017, 12:07:14 PM
Murray McLachlan recorded the complete sonatas on Olympia ages ago and they may still be available somewhere, I'm not sure. Perhaps a Melodiya reissue is likely in the future. I have no issues with his performances.
They are indeed available.


Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on October 18, 2017, 04:45:11 PM
Anyone else here an admirer of Weinberg's Symphony no. 3 (recorded by Chandos)? It's decidedly more Romantic in feel than most of his music that I've heard. I love the magical opening - it reminds me of an updated version of the opening of Tchaikovsky's Symphony no. 1. If I recall correctly, the ending of the first movement is reprised at the end of the work - a spellbinding moment.

https://youtu.be/MonyQhLY0Qo (https://youtu.be/MonyQhLY0Qo)

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on October 18, 2017, 06:32:23 PM
It’s a fantastic symphony, Kyle. Love it! I’d say my favorite Weinberg symphony, however, is the 5th.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on October 28, 2017, 04:17:24 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNOQyejWAAE_wbn.jpg)

A new challenger to Linus Roth on Challenge in the VC.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: relm1 on October 28, 2017, 04:43:46 PM
Anyone else here an admirer of Weinberg's Symphony no. 3 (recorded by Chandos)? It's decidedly more Romantic in feel than most of his music that I've heard. I love the magical opening - it reminds me of an updated version of the opening of Tchaikovsky's Symphony no. 1. If I recall correctly, the ending of the first movement is reprised at the end of the work - a spellbinding moment.

https://youtu.be/MonyQhLY0Qo (https://youtu.be/MonyQhLY0Qo)



I hadn't heard this symphony before but that was gorgeous!  Thanks for recommending. 
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on October 28, 2017, 09:13:56 PM
I hadn't heard this symphony before but that was gorgeous!  Thanks for recommending.

 :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on October 29, 2017, 01:14:49 AM
Anyone else here an admirer of Weinberg's Symphony no. 3 (recorded by Chandos)? It's decidedly more Romantic in feel than most of his music that I've heard. I love the magical opening - it reminds me of an updated version of the opening of Tchaikovsky's Symphony no. 1. If I recall correctly, the ending of the first movement is reprised at the end of the work - a spellbinding moment.

https://youtu.be/MonyQhLY0Qo (https://youtu.be/MonyQhLY0Qo)



Yes,yes,yes - great work! (Symphony 3). I also like symphonies 1,5 (his masterpiece I think) and 6 as well as the eloquent Piano Quintet.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on April 17, 2018, 01:12:31 AM
(https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x0/smart/https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Fjenslaurson%2Ffiles%2F2018%2F04%2FForbes_Classical-CD-of-the-Week_WEINBERG_Piano-Sonatas_DIVINE-ART_v9_Classical-Critic-Jens-F-Laurson-960.jpg)

Classical CD Of The Week:
Murray McLachlan, The Early Weinberg-Champion, Still Shines


...my Weinberg-boat is most clearly rocked by wonderfully gruff McLachlan.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2018/04/11/classical-cd-of-the-week-murray-mclachlan-the-early-weinberg-champion-still-shines/#ef59236cec01 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2018/04/11/classical-cd-of-the-week-murray-mclachlan-the-early-weinberg-champion-still-shines/#ef59236cec01)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Baron Scarpia on April 17, 2018, 01:19:04 AM
Yes,yes,yes - great work! (Symphony 3). I also like symphonies 1,5 (his masterpiece I think) and 6 as well as the eloquent Piano Quintet.

Fantatic. And the Ballet is also a very fine work. The only irritation, relatively short program on that CD.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: PaulR on May 15, 2018, 05:37:23 PM
Weinberg's Solo Double Bass Sonata Op. 108 will be performed at Tanglewood this summer by Edwin Barker.  Might have to see that...
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 16, 2018, 12:07:26 AM
Trés cool.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on May 16, 2018, 07:40:17 AM
If we were to start a thread on “creepiest openings”, that of Weinberg’s 5th Symphony would surely be a prime candidate!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on May 16, 2018, 08:00:03 AM
If we were to start a thread on “creepiest openings”, that of Weinberg’s 5th Symphony would surely be a prime candidate!

I love that opening - and the closing for that matter. I think that it's the only symphony, along with Popov's First Symphony I know which bears comparison with Shostakovich's cataclysmic 4th Symphony.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maestro267 on May 17, 2018, 08:41:30 AM
I love that opening - and the closing for that matter. I think that it's the only symphony, along with Popov's First Symphony I know which bears comparison with Shostakovich's cataclysmic 4th Symphony.

Well that's got my attention right away!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on May 17, 2018, 08:48:56 AM
Well that's got my attention right away!

Oh, it's a fine work which you should hear if you don't know it.

Just listened to his Piano Quintet which I think is one of his greatest works (Olympia).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 17, 2018, 07:23:06 PM
I love that opening - and the closing for that matter. I think that it's the only symphony, along with Popov's First Symphony I know which bears comparison with Shostakovich's cataclysmic 4th Symphony.

Don’t tell anyone this, but...[in whispering voice] I like Weinberg’s 5th better than Shostakovich’s 4th. There...I feel better now. ;)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on May 17, 2018, 08:17:56 PM
Don’t tell anyone this, but...[in whispering voice] I like Weinberg’s 5th better than Shostakovich’s 4th. There...I feel better now. ;)

Haha - and why not?
Popov's 1st is pretty sensational as well.
I like the Weinberg just as much as both of them.
 :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 18, 2018, 04:22:18 AM
Haha - and why not?
Popov's 1st is pretty sensational as well.
I like the Weinberg just as much as both of them.
 :)

For me, the slow movement (Adagio sostenuto) from Weinberg’s 5th is enough to catapult this symphony into the hierarchy of greatest Soviet Russian symphonies. This movement haunts me for days after hearing it, so I have to be ready for this anytime I listen to it.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on May 18, 2018, 06:13:12 AM
For me, the slow movement (Adagio sostenuto) from Weinberg’s 5th is enough to catapult this symphony into the hierarchy of greatest Soviet Russian symphonies. This movement haunts me for days after hearing it, so I have to be ready for this anytime I listen to it.
+1
I love the beginning and end as well.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maestro267 on August 24, 2018, 09:52:55 AM
I picked up the Naxos recording of Symphony No. 12 today. Just finished listening to it. I've heard a few of his symphonies now (Nos. 8, 12, 17 & 18) and it's clear to me that his soundworld is far more intimate than, say, Shostakovich and Prokofiev, who prefer (in the main) far thicker and heavier textures. With Weinberg, it's almost like chamber music, even though he often deploys sizable orchestral forces.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on August 24, 2018, 11:44:24 AM
I picked up the Naxos recording of Symphony No. 12 today. Just finished listening to it. I've heard a few of his symphonies now (Nos. 8, 12, 17 & 18) and it's clear to me that his soundworld is far more intimate than, say, Shostakovich and Prokofiev, who prefer (in the main) far thicker and heavier textures. With Weinberg, it's almost like chamber music, even though he often deploys sizable orchestral forces.

You must hear No.5 - his greatest I think, although not on Naxos.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: relm1 on August 24, 2018, 03:23:10 PM
I picked up the Naxos recording of Symphony No. 12 today. Just finished listening to it. I've heard a few of his symphonies now (Nos. 8, 12, 17 & 18) and it's clear to me that his soundworld is far more intimate than, say, Shostakovich and Prokofiev, who prefer (in the main) far thicker and heavier textures. With Weinberg, it's almost like chamber music, even though he often deploys sizable orchestral forces.

Do you prefer Weinberg to Prokofiev and Shostakovich????  I hear him as a distant second who is in awe of the titans but you seem to imply he is more successful in his sound.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on August 24, 2018, 10:40:46 PM
Do you prefer Weinberg to Prokofiev and Shostakovich????  I hear him as a distant second who is in awe of the titans but you seem to imply he is more successful in his sound.

Leaving aside the question of who is ultimately "better" (which is hard to gauge, given the disparity in sheer familiarity of these composers' works), I know that what I don't hear is someone "in awe". Weinberg was, despite the age difference, eye-to-eye with DSCH in his endeavors, even if there's that quote of his floating about, that might suggest otherwise. Very confident composer, even if not the most confident man (neither was DSCH).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: amw on August 25, 2018, 01:19:21 AM
Weinberg probably did exercise somewhat of an influence on Shostakovich given his background playing in klezmer/jewish folk bands; the “jewish themes” in Shostakovich start to appear around the time they became friends (1943 ish). In other respects of course the influence flowed the other way.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: North Star on August 25, 2018, 01:40:48 AM
Weinberg probably did exercise somewhat of an influence on Shostakovich given his background playing in klezmer/jewish folk bands; the “jewish themes” in Shostakovich start to appear around the time they became friends (1943 ish). In other respects of course the influence flowed the other way.
And Weinberg got Shostakovich interested in writing string quartets, and their friendly competition resulted in two of the most significant cycles of the 20th century. And since the two were showing / playing their new works to each other all the time, it would be absurd to think there wasn't any influence in the other direction. Bartók was another major influence on Weinberg's style, though the political climate in the USSR was a major factor on how much it manifested itself at a given time.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: relm1 on August 25, 2018, 03:04:38 PM
Weinberg probably did exercise somewhat of an influence on Shostakovich given his background playing in klezmer/jewish folk bands; the “jewish themes” in Shostakovich start to appear around the time they became friends (1943 ish). In other respects of course the influence flowed the other way.

Hmm, wait a second, wasn't Shostakovich a fan of Mahler who frequently used klezmer as early as his first symphony?  Surely he was very much aware of Mahler's use of traditional Eastern European Jewish music long before 1943.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: amw on August 25, 2018, 04:00:24 PM
I'm not a Shostakovich expert by any means but I don't believe Jewish themes start to be a major part of Shostakovich's work until the Piano Trio No.2 (1943ish) in memory of Ivan Sollertinsky (who was also Jewish). I'm sure he knew his Mahler, and had heard plenty of Jewish folk bands in the pre-1933 years when there was still a great deal of artistic freedom, but actually being friends with a musician who was brought up in that tradition is obviously different from studying scores/listening to concerts.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: North Star on August 25, 2018, 10:41:45 PM
I'm not a Shostakovich expert by any means but I don't believe Jewish themes start to be a major part of Shostakovich's work until the Piano Trio No.2 (1943ish) in memory of Ivan Sollertinsky (who was also Jewish). I'm sure he knew his Mahler, and had heard plenty of Jewish folk bands in the pre-1933 years when there was still a great deal of artistic freedom, but actually being friends with a musician who was brought up in that tradition is obviously different from studying scores/listening to concerts.
Piano Trio No. 2 is from 1944, premiered in November.
Quote from: Elphick, The String Quartets of Mieczysław Weinberg: A Critical Study
The two first met in late 1943, after a score of Weinberg’s First Symphony had been sent to Shostakovich. Suitably impressed, he arranged for Weinberg and his family to relocate to Moscow, a particularly difficult permit to obtain, especially in wartime. Weinberg moved into an apartment around the corner from Shostakovich and the two
quickly became friends. They shared their latest compositions with each other and played piano duets together, both in public and privately, perhaps the most famous example being a 1954 recording of Shostakovich’s Tenth Symphony. The closeness of their friendship can be noted from Shostakovich’s diaries, where Weinberg’s name appears more than any other.

[...]

The first group of mutual influence includes Weinberg’s Second Quartet, included here because of the impact that it appears to have had on Shostakovich’s quartets; in particular, several passages in Shostakovich’s Second and Third Quartets echo motifs and themes from Weinberg’s Second Quartet.
     While the strong influence of Shostakovich on Weinberg is frequently audible, the reverse process is arguably no less significant. The early quartets of both composers offer several tantalising similarities, suggesting a reciprocal exchange of ideas. It is apparent from Fig. 2-i that several of these quartets were written more or less
simultaneously in Moscow

[...]

Nelly Kravetz has written on Shostakovich’s Jewish interests, with reference to Weinberg’s Op. 13 and Op. 17 collections of Jewish Songs (dated 1943 and 1944, respectively). ‘It is precisely at this period Shostakovich got seriously interested in Jewish subjects... These facts are meant to prove the following assertion: The interest Shostakovich showed in the Jewish subjects was highly aroused by his acquaintance with Weinberg.’

[...]

The dense chromaticism of the [Weinberg Piano] Quintet as a whole is further grounds for arguing that Shostakovich picked up on suggestions and took influence from an earlier piece. More tantalizingly, close resemblances to Shostakovich’s later works can be found in the first movement of Weinberg’s Second Quartet (1939), which concludes with a meandering cello line. It moves away from its G major tonality, only to return abruptly at the final cadence (Ex. 2.4a and b). Shostakovich’s Sixth Quartet features a similar recurring cadence (Ex. 2.4c). Several authors have seized upon Shostakovich’s repeated concluding gesture and its potential for a hermeneutic reading. Kuhn describes it as ‘the quartet’s most disturbing and enigmatic figure... a repeated and increasingly estranged “happy ending”’. Noting the presence of a verticalised DSCH signature, Fanning writes: ‘The most tempting “explanation”... is that this cadence betokens Shostakovich’s shadowy presence'. [...]
The possibility of Weinberg’s influence on the creation of this deeply meaningful gesture has ramifications for the perception and contemporary reception of Weinberg himself. Such distinctive motifs have come to be understood as crucial aspects of Shostakovich’s style. If we accept the link, this is one example of how Weinberg may effectively be removed from Shostakovich’s shadow. It is not unreasonable to suppose that Weinberg would have shown his earlier compositions to his friend and mentor, given that these must have been among the few possessions that Weinberg was able to take with him when he fled Warsaw and then
Minsk. Shostakovich was even known to have taken Weinberg’s advice on quartet writing (a very rare occurrence). Abram Ashkenazy recalled:
Whenever his work was concerned, he was very tough. He never made concessions. Shostakovich never corrected his compositions, never listened to advice. The single exception known to me concerns the Fourth Quartet. We listened to it at Sviridov’s apartment after dinner. Dmitri Dmitrievich had the score and played through the complete quartet… Leafing through the score, I saw some clippings. So I asked Shostakovich what they were about: ‘You see, Weinberg advised me to make some changes in the finale, and so I did’.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maestro267 on August 26, 2018, 12:04:27 AM
Do you prefer Weinberg to Prokofiev and Shostakovich????  I hear him as a distant second who is in awe of the titans but you seem to imply he is more successful in his sound.

No, I never even said that! And even if I did, why would it be such a big deal as you seem to imply? It's not about "success", it's a simple comparison that I have observed from listening to the music of all three composers.

You must hear No.5 - his greatest I think, although not on Naxos.

I'd like to. I saw in another thread here that it invites comparison with Shostakovich 4, so that's certainly piqued my interest.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 26, 2018, 03:03:05 AM
Leaving aside the question of who is ultimately "better" (which is hard to gauge, given the disparity in sheer familiarity of these composers' works), I know that what I don't hear is someone "in awe". Weinberg was, despite the age difference, eye-to-eye with DSCH in his endeavors, even if there's that quote of his floating about, that might suggest otherwise. Very confident composer, even if not the most confident man (neither was DSCH).

Weinberg probably did exercise somewhat of an influence on Shostakovich given his background playing in klezmer/jewish folk bands; the “jewish themes” in Shostakovich start to appear around the time they became friends (1943 ish). In other respects of course the influence flowed the other way.

And Weinberg got Shostakovich interested in writing string quartets, and their friendly competition resulted in two of the most significant cycles of the 20th century. And since the two were showing / playing their new works to each other all the time, it would be absurd to think there wasn't any influence in the other direction. Bartók was another major influence on Weinberg's style, though the political climate in the USSR was a major factor on how much it manifested itself at a given time.

Yes.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on August 26, 2018, 05:48:43 AM
I drink my coffee with sugar and milk. Shostakovich is kind of black coffee while Weinberg is coffee with sugar and milk. That's why Weinberg is more to my liking. There has always been elements in Shostakovich's music I enjoy (coffee), but also elements I don't like (lack of milk and sugar). Discovering Weinberg's music has been among the most important revelations for me of the last 5 years. It's like Shostakovich corrected for my personal taste. Who's greater? Irrelevant. Weinberg has quickly become one of my favorite composers.

 0:)

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on August 26, 2018, 09:28:34 AM
I drink my coffee with sugar and milk. Shostakovich is kind of black coffee while Weinberg is coffee with sugar and milk. That's why Weinberg is more to my liking. There has always been elements in Shostakovich's music I enjoy (coffee), but also elements I don't like (lack of milk and sugar). Discovering Weinberg's music has been among the most important revelations for me of the last 5 years. It's like Shostakovich corrected for my personal taste. Who's greater? Irrelevant. Weinberg has quickly become one of my favorite composers.

 0:)

Interesting analogy. ;D Of course, I respectfully disagree. I do love Weinberg’s music or, at least, a lot of what I’ve heard (many of the symphonies, concerti, several chamber pieces). But there’s something deeply disturbing about Shostakovich’s music that continues to shake me at my core.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 27, 2018, 05:58:01 AM
I drink my coffee with sugar and milk. Shostakovich is kind of black coffee while Weinberg is coffee with sugar and milk. That's why Weinberg is more to my liking.

O.  K.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on September 20, 2018, 09:55:35 PM
I see that there's a Naxos CD of Symphony 13. Any views on this?
I tend to like the earlier ones (1,3,5 and 6) of those that I know. I collected some of the later ones on Olympia but did not like them as much.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on September 21, 2018, 12:53:58 AM
I respectfully disagree.

Normally people just disagree, so that's better.  ;)

Before joining GMG I didn't know/care about what classical music other people like. Such ignorance was bliss. I just enjoyed whatever I like and that's it. After joining GMG that bliss was gone. Suddenly I started stress about not being like others. Why don't I like Verdi? Why don't they like Elgar? Why does this guy ignore Fauré? GMG has been a curse and a blessing. For example now I worry about having just a few symphonies of Weinberg when I should be enjoying those I have (12, 19 & 20).

There's just so much stuff to buy! Lately I have bought more Blu-rays and less classical music. It seems I haven't bought anything by Weinberg since February 2017.  :P I think I have 14 Weinberg CDs. Do you have more or less?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on September 21, 2018, 05:15:02 AM
I think I have 14 Weinberg CDs. Do you have more or less?

I think that's 13 1/2 more than the average music lover, so you're WELL ahead of the curve!  ;D
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on September 21, 2018, 06:39:56 AM
I think that's 13 1/2 more than the average music lover, so you're WELL ahead of the curve!  ;D

Yeah, I wish Weinberg was 1/10 as popular as Shostakovich...  :-X
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on September 21, 2018, 08:35:46 PM
... Why don't they like Elgar? ...

In my case, count me as a guy who does like Elgar's music  ;)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on September 22, 2018, 12:06:49 AM
In my case, count me as a guy who does like Elgar's music  ;)

That's good.  ;) Maybe I should have said not everyone thinks Elgar is one of the greats. Anyway that is the past. I used to take this issue VERY seriously, but nowadays I just don't care and I understand better how people can have differing tastes and how it's not the end of the World.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on September 22, 2018, 02:03:30 AM
OT

Count me as an Elgar admirer too - especially the two symphonies and the excellent reconstructed Third Symphony. I head the Cello Concero at the Proms a few weeks ago - my daughter's favourite piece of classical music.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 22, 2018, 03:18:43 AM
That's good.  ;) Maybe I should have said not everyone thinks Elgar is one of the greats. Anyway that is the past. I used to take this issue VERY seriously, but nowadays I just don't care and I understand better how people can have differing tastes and how it's not the end of the World.

Please remember the original Mahler thread, and why it got locked down.

Please do not make non-Elgar threads a referendum on Elgar.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on September 22, 2018, 05:18:05 AM
Please remember the original Mahler thread, and why it got locked down.

Please do not make non-Elgar threads a referendum on Elgar.

Point taken Karl.

Now back to Braga Santos.
 8)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 22, 2018, 05:55:49 AM
Now back to Braga Santos.
 8)

;^)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on September 22, 2018, 08:51:47 AM
Most of the Weinberg I have is chamber music: String Quartets, Violin Sonatas, Cello Sonatas, Piano Trio etc. a lot of it on CPO label.

I think Weinberg is pretty damn good chamber music composer.  0:)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on March 14, 2019, 06:47:22 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1cv4OkWoAAkMTi.jpg)
Latest on @ClassicsToday: The Stamic Quartet’s Great Weinberg & Bloch Combo

: http://a-fwd.to/646WuV7
On @SupraphonCZ sublabel (?) AnimalMusic #StamicQuartet (http://a-fwd.to/646WuV7)

Review: https://www.classicstoday.com/review/the-stamic-quartets-great-weinberg-bloch-combo/ (https://www.classicstoday.com/review/the-stamic-quartets-great-weinberg-bloch-combo/) …
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Iota on March 16, 2019, 09:43:13 AM
I think Weinberg is pretty damn good chamber music composer.  0:)

I feel the same way. I'm slowly finding my way into Weinberg's music, and so far the chamber music has appealed far more than the orchestral works or concertos.
The Piano Quintet and Piano Sonata No.6 are two clear favourites for me, the quintet being just full of remarkable moments, and the sonata with an absolutely lovely opening Adagio of almost haiku-like simplicity.

Review: https://www.classicstoday.com/review/the-stamic-quartets-great-weinberg-bloch-combo/ (https://www.classicstoday.com/review/the-stamic-quartets-great-weinberg-bloch-combo/) …

The review above mentions not having heard the Attacca Quartet version of the Piano Quintet, which is coincidentally the one I've got to know the work with. I haven't heard any other yet, but fwiw will say that if I needed my metaphorical socks removing in a hurry, this would be an option.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on March 16, 2019, 02:30:37 PM
I was listening to the Cello Concerto recently, which I think is one of the most sheerly beautiful works of its kind ever written for the instrument. Its structure, with two elegiac, haunting outer movements flanking some livelier central sections, reflects that of the Miaskovsky concerto written four years earlier and sharing the same key (C minor). In addition to radiating a deeply Russian melancholy, the work also contains a Jewish klezmer influence in some of the more dance-like sections, betraying Weinberg’s Jewish heritage. It’s promising that young(er) cellists such as Nicolas Altstaedt and Sol Gabetta are taking up the work - hopefully other cellists will follow suit and the work will enter the standard cello repertoire, as it truly deserves to.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Ken B on March 16, 2019, 02:57:29 PM
I was listening to the Cello Concerto recently, which I think is one of the most sheerly beautiful works of its kind ever written for the instrument. Its structure, with two elegiac, haunting outer movements flanking some livelier central sections, reflects that of the Miaskovsky concerto written four years earlier and sharing the same key (C minor). In addition to radiating a deeply Russian melancholy, the work also contains a Jewish klezmer influence in some of the more dance-like sections, betraying Weinberg’s Jewish heritage. It’s promising that young(er) cellists such as Nicolas Altstaedt and Sol Gabetta are taking up the work - hopefully other cellists will follow suit and the work will enter the standard cello repertoire, as it truly deserves to.
It is. It is probably the best cello concerto that is “never” played. I was amazed when I first heard it, just about 3 years ago. Hopefully the banishment of those plagiarists Vajnberg, Vainberg, Wajnberg, and Wainberg, all of whom have claimed this Concerto as their own, will help.
Do you know Honegger's Concerto? Also a great one. The Virgil Thomson is very good too.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on March 19, 2019, 03:12:44 PM
It is. It is probably the best cello concerto that is “never” played. I was amazed when I first heard it, just about 3 years ago. Hopefully the banishment of those plagiarists Vajnberg, Vainberg, Wajnberg, and Wainberg, all of whom have claimed this Concerto as their own, will help.
Do you know Honegger's Concerto? Also a great one. The Virgil Thomson is very good too.

 ;D

Yes, I know and love the Honegger concerto. Don’t know the Thomson (yet).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on April 17, 2019, 04:46:09 AM
Weinberg's Cello Concerto and Symphony 3 are being performed at the Proms in London this year.
If I can get to one or both of those concerts I will.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on April 17, 2019, 02:02:55 PM
Weinberg's Cello Concerto and Symphony 3 are being performed at the Proms in London this year.
If I can get to one or both of those concerts I will.

An opportunity like that can't be missed! I hope you can get the tickets for those concerts.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: schnittkease on April 17, 2019, 08:32:32 PM
Weinberg's Cello Concerto and Symphony 3 are being performed at the Proms in London this year.
If I can get to one or both of those concerts I will.

I've always been impressed by the Proms' willingness to program neglected works. Good luck on making it.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on April 17, 2019, 09:40:11 PM
I've always been impressed by the Proms' willingness to program neglected works. Good luck on making it.
Thanks to you and Cesarean. I doubt whether Weinberg's Third Symphony will be a sell-out! It's a work that I like very much.

PS the Seventh string quartet is also being performed.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on April 19, 2019, 06:48:57 AM
I was curious about the interest in Weinberg at this year's Proms before recalling that he had been born in 1919. ::)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on April 19, 2019, 07:25:57 AM
I feel the same way. I'm slowly finding my way into Weinberg's music, and so far the chamber music has appealed far more than the orchestral works or concertos.
The Piano Quintet and Piano Sonata No.6 are two clear favourites for me, the quintet being just full of remarkable moments, and the sonata with an absolutely lovely opening Adagio of almost haiku-like simplicity.

The review above mentions not having heard the Attacca Quartet version of the Piano Quintet, which is coincidentally the one I've got to know the work with. I haven't heard any other yet, but fwiw will say that if I needed my metaphorical socks removing in a hurry, this would be an option.

I'll definitely look into that version! Can't listen to enough versions of this piece!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on April 20, 2019, 09:42:34 AM
Weinberg's Cello Concerto and Symphony 3 are being performed at the Proms in London this year.
If I can get to one or both of those concerts I will.

That's fantastic news! Two of my favorite Weinberg works.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maestro267 on April 21, 2019, 02:11:21 AM
I am kinda surprised they didn't choose to perform the 21st Symphony, as that's the one that CBSO and Mirga recorded recently with DG.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on April 21, 2019, 01:29:02 PM
I am kinda surprised they didn't choose to perform the 21st Symphony, as that's the one that CBSO and Mirga recorded recently with DG.

I like Symphony 3 but think that Symphony 5 is the greatest of the ones I've heard and wish it was being performed. No.1 and 6 are also very good IMO.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on April 22, 2019, 10:53:37 AM
Interesting and surprising forthcoming release. It reminds me of when DGG issued an LP of Allan Pettersson's 8th Symphony many years ago:
(http://)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: schnittkease on April 22, 2019, 12:09:16 PM
This is quite possibly my favorite Weinberg recording:

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0004/257/MI0004257099.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

Acerbic works that border on harrowing and ironic à la Shostakovich; a major contribution to the solo violin repertoire.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on April 22, 2019, 03:05:45 PM
Interesting and surprising forthcoming release. It reminds me of when DGG issued an LP of Allan Pettersson's 8th Symphony many years ago:
(http://)

I got excited finding this on Qobuz, but only one track actually streams currently, the Presto of No. 21.

Listening to the Siberian recording now:



A rather enigmatic work.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maestro267 on April 24, 2019, 01:55:00 AM
OK, I didn't realise the DG recording had No. 2 on it as well. All the better.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on May 20, 2019, 01:20:54 AM

The Piano Quintet and Piano Sonata No.6 are two clear favourites for me, the quintet being just full of remarkable moments, and the sonata with an absolutely lovely opening Adagio of almost haiku-like simplicity.

The review above mentions not having heard the Attacca Quartet version of the Piano Quintet, which is coincidentally the one I've got to know the work with. I haven't heard any other yet, but fwiw will say that if I needed my metaphorical socks removing in a hurry, this would be an option.

I'm listening to the Attacca Quartet's Weinberg (http://a-fwd.to/2p5We15) right now. HOLY COW, they really are something special. The third movement is so wildly over the top (in a good, very amusing way)... it beggars belief.  ;D
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on May 20, 2019, 04:48:15 AM
I listened to the Silesian Quartet's No. 7 on Qobuz the other night and think I like this much better than the Danel recording, though I need to revisit that one to be fair.

(https://direct.rhapsody.com/imageserver/images/Alb.255744336/500x500.jpg)


Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on May 20, 2019, 11:09:06 AM
I recently witnessed a gripping, searing performance of Weinberg’s Piano Quintet as part of my university’s faculty chamber music series. The performers were the fabulous pianist Dimitri Papadimitriou along with the Clarion Quartet, who are all members of Pittsburgh Symphony and who specialize in the music of Jewish composers affected by the Holocaust. I had previously not realized what a stunning work it is - there are occasional echoes of the Shostakovich PQ, sure, but the Weinberg probes even deeper than that work IMO. The grotesque, scintillating scherzo, the deeply tragic slow movement, and the hauntingly ambiguous ending are especially of note. It was great to see the music of a lesser-known composer receive such passionate advocacy in a live performance. It certainly seems like Weinberg’s star is in the ascendant! :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on May 20, 2019, 12:32:24 PM
I recently witnessed a gripping, searing performance of Weinberg’s Piano Quintet as part of my university’s faculty chamber music series. The performers were the fabulous pianist Dimitri Papadimitriou along with the Clarion Quartet, who are all members of Pittsburgh Symphony and who specialize in the music of Jewish composers affected by the Holocaust. I had previously not realized what a stunning work it is - there are occasional echoes of the Shostakovich PQ, sure, but the Weinberg probes even deeper than that work IMO. The grotesque, scintillating scherzo, the deeply tragic slow movement, and the hauntingly ambiguous ending are especially of note. It was great to see the music of a lesser-known composer receive such passionate advocacy in a live performance. It certainly seems like Weinberg’s star is in the ascendant! :)
I agree that it's a fabulous work Kyle. It is my favourite of the chamber works I know, whilst Symphony 5 (especially in Kondrashin's recording) is his orchestral masterpiece IMO.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: relm1 on May 20, 2019, 02:39:42 PM
I agree that it's a fabulous work Kyle. It is my favourite of the chamber works I know, whilst Symphony 5 (especially in Kondrashin's recording) is his orchestral masterpiece IMO.

Please explain, what is it about these two works that you find so compelling?  Why should someone who hasn't heard these NEED to hear them?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on May 20, 2019, 03:31:42 PM
Please explain, what is it about these two works that you find so compelling?  Why should someone who hasn't heard these NEED to hear them?

Please explain, what is it about Beethoven's op.59/1 and his 1st Piano Concerto that you find so compelling?  Why should someone who hasn't heard these NEED to hear them?

By which I mean to suggest: What you are asking for is quite a lot, actually. Almost immodestly so. I know you didn't ask me... but think about if someone had asked you. It's actually quite difficult to put into words why certain musics are great. Most descriptions just side-step the issue... calling it "compelling" or using other adjectives that really just kick the linguistic can down the road.

If it is worth anything at all, I agree with the above -- and very many others with us -- that the Piano Quintet of Weinberg's is one of the great chamber compositions of the 20th century. Utterly... well... "compelling" music. Joy and pain and elation and bitterness, all in four movements.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on May 20, 2019, 10:38:57 PM
Please explain, what is it about these two works that you find so compelling?  Why should someone who hasn't heard these NEED to hear them?

Well, and I take SurprisedByBeauty's point that it is difficult (for me at least) to articulate what is essentially an emotional appeal. I've always been deeply moved by Shostakovich's 4th Symphony, especially the last part. It was withdrawn of course during the Stalin era and to me, a history teacher, reflects the fear, anxiety and profound sadness of that period like no other work. There are only two other symphonies, in my view, which come close to its cataclysmic appeal and they are Popov's First Symphony and Weinberg's 5th Symphony, which has, for me, a most wonderfully searching and visionary quality to it. When I was 17 Vaughan Williams's 6th Symphony (LPO Boult, with speech by the composer) had the most enormous effect on me and really switched me over from jazz-rock to classical music. At the time I felt that I KNEW what the music was about but had no idea how to express what I felt in words, because the appeal of that music was on a level beyond words. That may sound pretentious but it is how I felt at the time. Both the works I mentioned by Weinberg are gripping, powerful, dramatic and searching. Kyle (Kylo) expresses it better that I could about the Piano Quintet.
That's probably the best I can do for now.  :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Roy Bland on May 25, 2019, 03:29:04 PM
New release
http://www.operapassion.com/cd1898700.html
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: J on July 30, 2019, 08:12:14 AM
Interesting and surprising forthcoming release. It reminds me of when DGG issued an LP of Allan Pettersson's 8th Symphony many years ago:
(http://)

I've not acquired this DGG recording of Symphony 21 or indeed even been aware of the work until stumbling onto the live Warsaw Phil performance (with Kaspszyk) posted on YouTube.  What disturbing and profoundly moving sounds (both lamenting and unhinged), awesomely played by this group, - and could anyone help note how entrancingly beautiful are the two first violinists who feature so prominently at times throughout?  It's a wonderfully expressive video of just altogether riveting music I strongly recommend to all Weinberg enthusiasts.

Now almost ready to claim Nos. 5 & 21 as the great Weinberg Symphonies, - early and late.  What would be other candidates?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on July 30, 2019, 09:50:56 AM
I've not acquired this DGG recording of Symphony 21 or indeed even been aware of the work until stumbling onto the live Warsaw Phil performance (with Kaspszyk) posted on YouTube.  What disturbing and profoundly moving sounds (both lamenting and unhinged), awesomely played by this group, - and could anyone help note how entrancingly beautiful are the two first violinists who feature so prominently at times throughout?  It's a wonderfully expressive video of just altogether riveting music I strongly recommend to all Weinberg enthusiasts.

Now almost ready to claim Nos. 5 & 21 as the great Weinberg Symphonies, - early and late.  What would be other candidates?

My familiarity with his symphonies is rather weak. Nevertheless, the 10th is one of my clear favorites. One of the greatest string symphonies I know. The 6th with boys choir has a special place for me as well.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Irons on July 30, 2019, 10:47:44 PM
I do not own any of the symphonies but inspired by this thread I listened to the 4th string quartet last night. I think it a deep work and for that reason I need to live with it for a bit, something I'm more then happy to do. Shostakovich is obviously an inspiration, but Weinberg is his own man on the evidence of this quartet. I will play it again - soon.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on July 31, 2019, 01:16:30 AM
In answer to Greg's ('J') point I'd say that Symphony Nos 5 and 6 rate very highly of the ones I know. I have 21 in the Toccata release but haven't listened to it more than once but will be doing so soon. I also like 1 and 3 which I'll be hearing live in August. The Piano Quintet is also excellent.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: André on August 03, 2019, 01:06:21 PM
Cross-posted:

Quote
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51znKtf1LuL.jpg)

Weinberg’s symphonic output is a bit confusing. He composed and numbered 21 symphonies. Then he labeled his next compositions in the genre « chamber symphonies ». Orchestration and time-wise they are similar to many of his ‘regular’ symphonies. They are not small brew on the musical and emotional side either. Chronologically they would have been nos 22-25.

But before that he had worked on a ballet that was never produced, from which he extracted 6 movements. At 32 minutes the work is of symphonic proportions. Weinberg himself titled the autograph score ‘Choreographic symphony’. It was never published nor played, so it never made it to the catalogue of his symphonies, but it’s there, standing between his 12th and 13th symphonies.

If that were not confusing enough, a 22nd symphony has seen the light of day through the ministrations of composer Kirill Umansky. When he stopped working on it (he would die shortly after) Weinberg had produced a piano score, a draft short score and some embryonic orchestration indications. All told then, Weinberg composed some 27 works with the title or indication of symphony/symphonic.

Since neither work was ever published or played, this disc has the field unto itself. I found the music of the Choreographic symphony absolutely gorgeous. The japanese elements have more to do with the storyline than actual musical ‘japanisms’, although the first movement has the kind of ‘little feet’ bustling familiar from the opening of Madama Butterfly, another fake japanese work. This was really worth unearthing. Thank you Toccata Classics and maestro Vasilyev.

The symphony is another matter. I am reminded of the sparse, skeletal, desolate sound world of Shostakovich (violin, viola sonatas, last 2 quartets, last symphony). This is serious, almost unremittingly bleak stuff. There are 3 movements, the first a massive 25 minute Fantasia in various shades of lento and moderato markings. The second movement is a short Intermezzo, the last a questing, enigmatic, forlorn slow one titled Reminiscences. The orchestration is quite sparse, reminding me at times of Gorecki’s sound world.

An essential disc for Weinberg fans.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on August 23, 2019, 11:51:59 AM
It was a great pleasure to hear Weinberg's Third Symphony live at the Proms last night (City of Birmingham SO). The last movement all goes rather 'Socialist Realist' but I found it very moving overall hearing it live.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maestro267 on August 26, 2019, 02:52:38 AM
Watching Weinberg 3 at the Proms. I'm only on the slow movement, but goodness me this piece is amazing!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 26, 2019, 05:01:32 PM
What do you really consider his best symphonies? Well, a mix of favorite and best.

And, Is there any possibility in the near future to record the missing symphonies (9, 11 and 15)? Look at this, cpo, Chandos, Naxos!!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on August 27, 2019, 12:13:13 AM
What do you really consider his best symphonies? Well, a mix of favorite and best.

And, Is there any possibility in the near future to record the missing symphonies (9, 11 and 15)? Look at this, cpo, Chandos, Naxos!!

Of those I know. Greatest = No.5, especially in Kondrashin's recording. No.6 is very moving and powerful. I greatly enjoy nos. 1 and 3. I'm hoping to explore No.21 which I have a recording of (Toccata not DGG).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: SymphonicAddict on August 27, 2019, 12:56:45 PM
Of those I know. Greatest = No.5, especially in Kondrashin's recording. No.6 is very moving and powerful. I greatly enjoy nos. 1 and 3. I'm hoping to explore No.21 which I have a recording of (Toccata not DGG).

I did know that you like the 5th a lot, Jeffrey. Yesterday I gave it a listen but by hearing other recording (don't have the Kondrashin):

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TpChDiAlEoM/WgWG2OL955I/AAAAAAAAF0Q/0aP9N5xqesA2ixlxNqZeh4V2ozb-AR79ACLcBGAs/s1600/71T89dQszOL._SL1425_.jpg)

It's indeed great, unmistakably Weinberg. There is a remarkable use of woodwinds and percussion. And a so good performance. Impressive.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: André on August 27, 2019, 01:06:10 PM
The 5th is indeed Weinberg at his considerable best. I share Jeffrey’s admiration and love for the Kondrashin performance. I will throw an eye on the competition. This is a work worthy of duplication.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maestro267 on August 28, 2019, 01:18:42 AM
What do you really consider his best symphonies? Well, a mix of favorite and best.

And, Is there any possibility in the near future to record the missing symphonies (9, 11 and 15)? Look at this, cpo, Chandos, Naxos!!

I believe all three of those are large scale choral symphonies. Something random I just noticed on a publisher's page listing most of the symphonies and their instrumentation: No. 11 does not call for oboes.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on August 28, 2019, 01:22:45 AM
I did know that you like the 5th a lot, Jeffrey. Yesterday I gave it a listen but by hearing other recording (don't have the Kondrashin):

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TpChDiAlEoM/WgWG2OL955I/AAAAAAAAF0Q/0aP9N5xqesA2ixlxNqZeh4V2ozb-AR79ACLcBGAs/s1600/71T89dQszOL._SL1425_.jpg)

It's indeed great, unmistakably Weinberg. There is a remarkable use of woodwinds and percussion. And a so good performance. Impressive.
I wasn't aware of that release Cesar. Most interesting!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maestro267 on December 08, 2019, 12:04:25 AM
As it's Weinberg's big day today (as far as we know; it's kinda muddy), a little thread bump is in order here, I think.

I have a few symphonies to choose from, and I'll pick one later to listen to to commemorate the centenary.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on December 08, 2019, 02:12:09 AM
As it's Weinberg's big day today (as far as we know; it's kinda muddy), a little thread bump is in order here, I think.

I have a few symphonies to choose from, and I'll pick one later to listen to to commemorate the centenary.

Thanks very much for alerting us to this important day!

I shall play the new recording of Symphony No.5 in celebration.
 :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maestro267 on December 08, 2019, 04:41:37 AM
Thanks very much for alerting us to this important day!

I shall play the new recording of Symphony No.5 in celebration.
 :)

There's a new recording? I actually learnt the other day that Chandos released a Fifth, which is fantastic. I think there's a second recording with Kondrashin, but I suspect the Chandos will sound better by default of being a more modern performance. Nevermind. Just saw the above picture.

I only have 4 recordings currently: Symphony No. 8; No. 12/Golden Key suite; No. 17/Suite for Orchestra; No. 18/Trumpet Concerto.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vers la flamme on December 08, 2019, 05:19:05 AM
I will have to listen to the only Weinberg work in my library today then, the String Quartet No.6 in E minor.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on December 08, 2019, 07:13:32 AM
First listen to this new version of the magnificent Symphony No.5:
(http://)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maestro267 on December 08, 2019, 08:37:41 AM
Yeah, I've heard glowing recommendations for Symphony No. 5. I'm sure someone said they found it had a similar sort of intensity to Shostakovich 4, which is really saying something. That work is the very definition of intense!

I'm not sure if it's just the symphonies I've picked up, but pretty much all of them seem quite inward looking. Very few massive, percussion-drenched climaxes á la Shostakovich or Prokofiev. He uses sizable forces, but uses them sparingly and rarely all together.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on December 08, 2019, 09:16:47 AM
Yeah, I've heard glowing recommendations for Symphony No. 5. I'm sure someone said they found it had a similar sort of intensity to Shostakovich 4, which is really saying something. That work is the very definition of intense!

I'm not sure if it's just the symphonies I've picked up, but pretty much all of them seem quite inward looking. Very few massive, percussion-drenched climaxes á la Shostakovich or Prokofiev. He uses sizable forces, but uses them sparingly and rarely all together.

I think that No.5 is the only symphony I'd compare with Shostakovich's 4th Symphony, especially the ending, apart from Popov's phantasmagoric Symphony No.1. The above recording doesn't have quite the urgency of Kondrashin's account but is a more modern recording. I prefer it to the version on Chandos.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Roy Bland on December 08, 2019, 04:16:43 PM
I think that No.5 is the only symphony I'd compare with Shostakovich's 4th Symphony, especially the ending, apart from Popov's phantasmagoric Symphony No.1. The above recording doesn't have quite the urgency of Kondrashin's account but is a more modern recording. I prefer it to the version on Chandos.
I agree IMHO is the best work of Weinberg full of desolation and despair (third movement a folklike parody) after haunting opening and sinister march on ending,i have powerful Kondrashin's performance with old Russian Disc.What do you think about Trumpet Concerto?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: André on December 08, 2019, 04:19:23 PM
A resounding YES! for the trumpet concerto.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on December 08, 2019, 04:27:20 PM
I agree IMHO is the best work of Weinberg full of desolation and despair (third movement a folklike parody) after haunting opening and sinister march on ending,i have powerful Kondrashin's performance with old Russian Disc.What do you think about Trumpet Concerto?
Need to listen to it again. Glad you also think highly of the 5th Symphony.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Roy Bland on February 14, 2020, 05:53:13 PM
New release
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODczMjA2Mi4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1Nzk4NjcxNjZ9)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Roy Bland on March 13, 2020, 06:06:44 PM
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODczMjA1OC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1Nzk3Nzg3MjJ9)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vers la flamme on March 27, 2020, 05:02:29 PM
I will have to listen to the only Weinberg work in my library today then, the String Quartet No.6 in E minor.

This is still the only Weinberg I have, as part of the Pacifica Quartet Shostakovich (et al) cycle. I just listened to it, really good stuff. I should hear one of his symphonies. Is there one that stands out among the 21? Further, what recordings are worth listening to? Naxos pretty good here?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on March 27, 2020, 05:24:18 PM
This is still the only Weinberg I have, as part of the Pacifica Quartet Shostakovich (et al) cycle. I just listened to it, really good stuff. I should hear one of his symphonies. Is there one that stands out among the 21? Further, what recordings are worth listening to? Naxos pretty good here?

I'd start with Symphonies 4 & 5. 
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: André on March 27, 2020, 06:08:02 PM
Listened to symphony no 21 twice today. It’s a large scale work (54 minutes) in 6 sections played without interruption. Weinberg’s language here looks backward and forward, mixing old forms (chorale) with almost postmodern sounds. In places I had the impression of listening to a work by Giya Kancheli. At others (the presto section) Nino Rota burst into view straight out of a Fellini film. Klezmer instruments/tunes appear here and there. A wordless soprano is heard in the desolate last movement. I had the impression of the composer looking back and revisiting a life’s memories and experiences. Very moving.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Althcy7EL._AC_.jpg)

There is another version of the work on DGG. I will probably explore it. The Toccata release is excellent, but I have a reservation: the soprano soloist is way too forward and her voice lacks an ethereal quality. The excellent notes by David Fanning state that the soprano should be heard from off-stage. I think it would make a real difference if done in that way.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: North Star on March 27, 2020, 06:47:17 PM
This is still the only Weinberg I have, as part of the Pacifica Quartet Shostakovich (et al) cycle. I just listened to it, really good stuff. I should hear one of his symphonies. Is there one that stands out among the 21? Further, what recordings are worth listening to? Naxos pretty good here?
The whole cycle of quartets is very much worth getting to know, the Danel are the only complete set, but they are very good indeed.
As for the symphonies, You can't go wrong with the ones mentioned in the last posts, though I've hardly heard them all myself either. Toccata, Chandos, Naxos, Melodya have all seemed fine to me as far as recordings go, and definitely the DG album.

And do check out the Piano Quintet! There are lots of recordings, it's certainly thought of as one of Weinberg's best works. I seem to recall there was lots of enthusiasm for this recording by the Silesian Quartet, you could also hear another String Quartet before committing to the complete set.





Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on May 28, 2020, 06:10:01 PM
There are some interesting live performances on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/v/7EmhV-Xkwng

https://www.youtube.com/v/Uu2FxwcCZRw

https://www.youtube.com/v/eRSoIWQ8i5c

https://www.youtube.com/v/wisNnLW78ms

https://www.youtube.com/v/yaXeOgn7pi0
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on May 28, 2020, 07:10:12 PM
Very nice, Cesar. Thanks for posting those performances. In my mind, Weinberg is a major composer and it is finally time he’s getting the kind of recognition he has long deserved. It seems like there are new recordings of his music popping up all the time now, which is a great thing for all of us, but not so great for our wallets. ;) Even though I own the Quatuor Danel cycle of the SQs, I still find myself looking at the Silesian Quartet on Accord. I’m trying my best to resist these recordings. I really am. The problem I have with Weinberg is I want every recording. ;D
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on July 05, 2020, 12:07:55 PM
Has anyone heard this new release?

(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/555234-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 05, 2020, 12:20:18 PM
Has anyone heard this new release?

(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/555234-2.jpg)

No, I haven’t, but I just bought it. ;) Thanks for the reminder. 8) I haven’t been following that whole series on Jewish cello music, but Wallfisch is an excellent cellist and usually one I’m interested in hearing. I LOVE that recording he did of Ben-Haim’s and Korngold’s Cello Concertos.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on July 05, 2020, 12:34:55 PM
No, I haven’t, but I just bought it. ;) Thanks for the reminder. 8) I haven’t been following that whole series on Jewish cello music, but Wallfisch is an excellent cellist and usually one I’m interested in hearing. I LOVE that recording he did of Ben-Haim’s and Korngold’s Cello Concertos.

Let us know what you think of it when you have it, John. And yes, that CD of Korngold/Ben-Haim/Bloch is stupendous. Even the cover arts are nice (including that devoted to Weinberg).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 05, 2020, 12:37:54 PM
Let us know what you think of it when you have it, John. And yes, that CD of Korngold/Ben-Haim/Bloch is stupendous. Even the cover arts are nice (including that devoted to Weinberg).

Will do, Cesar. Maybe I’ll post my thoughts here.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maestro267 on July 06, 2020, 08:14:05 AM
On a bit of a Weinberg kick this afternoon. 12th Symphony followed now by the 8th. Both Naxos.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 06, 2020, 08:34:56 AM
On a bit of a Weinberg kick this afternoon. 12th Symphony followed now by the 8th. Both Naxos.

The 12th is quite good. I particularly like the last movement, which is powerful.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maestro267 on July 06, 2020, 08:47:02 AM
The 12th is quite good. I particularly like the last movement, which is powerful.

Yes, I enjoyed that. Unusual to start with a marimba solo. And the Shostakovichian ending of fragmentary ideas over a long-held string chord.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on July 06, 2020, 08:55:11 AM
Has anyone heard this new release?

(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/555234-2.jpg)

I haven’t, but I love the Cello Concerto and the Fantasy. Two very soulful and lyrical works. This is my reference recording of the concerto:

Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: kyjo on July 06, 2020, 08:56:52 AM
Yes, I enjoyed that. Unusual to start with a marimba solo. And the Shostakovichian ending of fragmentary ideas over a long-held string chord.

Indeed, it’s quite a disconcerting and even disturbing movement. That ending crescendo (IIRC) is like a scream of terror in a void of darkness!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 06, 2020, 09:09:28 AM
I haven’t, but I love the Cello Concerto and the Fantasy. Two very soulful and lyrical works. This is my reference recording of the concerto:



That’s a great performance, too, but I haven’t really heard a bad performance of the Weinberg Cello Concerto yet. ;)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Maestro267 on July 07, 2020, 09:58:27 AM
Listening to Symphony No. 18. The nearly-unaccompanied choral final movement is so haunting!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 11, 2020, 04:21:58 PM
Has anyone heard this new release?

(https://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/555234-2.jpg)

Follow-up to this post of yours, Cesar. The new Wallfisch recording is excellent, but was this not to be expected? ;) Wallfisch really gives this concerto his all and I think he touches on some of the darker, brooding moments that I haven’t quite heard in any other performance. It sounds as if he has lived with this concerto a long-time. The accompaniment from Łukasz Borowicz and the Kristiansand Symphony Orchestra is fantastic, but, again, I didn’t expect any less with these forces. Another winner for this series and for the Weinberg discography. We’re really becoming spoilt with choice in the Cello Concerto and that could never be seen as a bad thing.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Symphonic Addict on July 11, 2020, 04:35:57 PM
Follow-up to this post of yours, Cesar. The new Wallfisch recording is excellent, but was this not to be expected? ;) Wallfisch really gives this concerto his all and I think he touches on some of the darker, brooding moments that I haven’t quite heard in any other performance. It sounds as if he has lived with this concerto a long-time. The accompaniment from Łukasz Borowicz and the Kristiansand Symphony Orchestra is fantastic, but, again, I didn’t expect any less with these forces. Another winner for this series and for the Weinberg discography. We’re really becoming spoilt with choice in the Cello Concerto and that could never be seen as a bad thing.

I was expecting a positive reaction, John, and I did get it by reading your impressions. I hope I'll be as enthralled as you with these renditions.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 11, 2020, 04:40:46 PM
I was expecting a positive reaction, John, and I did get it by reading your impressions. I hope I'll be as enthralled as you with these renditions.

Yes, indeed. I’m not expecting a negative response on your end, but I have been wrong many times in the past. :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on July 13, 2020, 11:54:45 AM
Our Brian has alerted us of a new recording coming out:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91qqpUCWj6L._SL1500_.jpg)

I’m not familiar with any of Weinberg’s operas, but, to be honest, I don’t really have much interest in them. I remember our Bruce mentioning that he enjoyed The Passenger. Perhaps someone here who does enjoy operatic music, will enjoy this new recording coming out.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on August 09, 2020, 11:33:36 PM
A strong recommendation for Fedoseyev's very moving and beautifully recorded 6th Symphony by Weinberg. It is contemporary with and deals with the same tragic themes as Shostakovich's Symphony 13 'Babi Yar', although Weinberg focuses on the suffering of children caught up in the Holocaust, in which Weinberg's entire family was wiped out:
(http://)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Volny on September 18, 2020, 10:48:33 PM
A strong recommendation for Fedoseyev's very moving and beautifully recorded 6th Symphony by Weinberg. It is contemporary with and deals with the same tragic themes as Shostakovich's Symphony 13 'Babi Yar', although Weinberg focuses on the suffering of children caught up in the Holocaust, in which Weinberg's entire family was wiped out:
(http://)

I own the Lande/St Petersburg one on Naxos. If you've heard both, how would you compare them? (also, though I don't mean to derail the thread, that CD interests me doubly because as well as loving Weinberg, Szymanowski's 3rd is one of my favourites - what did you think of Fedoseyev's version?)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scion7 on September 18, 2020, 10:53:26 PM
in short, the Naxos is fine and there is nothing wrong with it, and it has a more modern recording fidelity behind it,
but a Fedoseyev "they don't got" - as they say in the Bronx
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Volny on September 18, 2020, 10:54:51 PM
Oh, I notice that Fedoseyev conducts the same symphony with a different orchestra on this release - I wonder how that compares:

(https://bit.ly/2ZRHYWn)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scion7 on September 18, 2020, 10:59:57 PM
I have that and quite like it.  Unless the conductor is some sort of buffoon, one would have to work hard to spoil Weinberg - a most satisfying (comparatively) recent discovery for me over the last few years.  ;)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on September 18, 2020, 11:04:20 PM
I own the Lande/St Petersburg one on Naxos. If you've heard both, how would you compare them? (also, though I don't mean to derail the thread, that CD interests me doubly because as well as loving Weinberg, Szymanowski's 3rd is one of my favourites - what did you think of Fedoseyev's version?)
Hello and welcome to the Forum.
I preferred the Fedoseyev version to the Naxos, although as Scion7 suggests, there is nothing wrong with that version either. Best of all is Kondrashin, but I'm not sure how available that is. I'm also an admirer of Symanowski's 3rd Symphony 'The Song of the Night' and enjoyed this new recording. I like the version on Chandos as well (Polyansky I think).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on September 19, 2020, 03:08:34 AM
The problem for me with "newer" Naxos CDs is they hardly ever go cheap in the second hand market. Early Naxos discs are often dirty cheap used, but the Naxos discs released after 2005 or so rarely go under say £3 used. For me the whole point of Naxos has been low price and Naxos has developped into a "mid-price" label rather than a budget label. That's why I go to full price labels instead to get superb stuff, but I also have to buy much less to keep the expensies reasonable.

For example the best deal for Symphony 6 I can see is £6.08+ £1.79 Delivery = £7.87 = 8,75 €! That's for a USED CD! In the past I walked into a store called "Anttila" in Helsinki and they had "buy 4, pay 3" Naxos campaign so I got 4 CDs for 3*8 € = 24 € = 6 € (£5.5) per disc for NEW CDs in plastic wrappings! So, I can get old Naxos cheap, but Naxos DIDN'T release Weinberg in the past! All of it is relatively new and "expensive." Other Weinberg releases are some old stuff on obcure labels, much of it OOP and the prices reflect that! CPO doesn't do symphonies because they coordinate with Naxos. So, exploring Weinberg's symphonies has been a pain in the ass! So frustrating! If Weinberg was as "famous" as Shostakovich (and he should be imo!)  there would be many boxes of all symphonies at affordable prices (all symphonies for 79 euros for example).

So, instead of Weinberg's symphonies I might buy a MIRARE label release of German baroque because they do it JUST RIGHT for my taste and it is heavenly! Pricy, but heavenly!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scion7 on September 19, 2020, 06:07:24 AM
take a drive into the Russian Federation - maybe you can find them priced more to your budget?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vers la flamme on September 20, 2020, 01:48:49 AM
The problem for me with "newer" Naxos CDs is they hardly ever go cheap in the second hand market. Early Naxos discs are often dirty cheap used, but the Naxos discs released after 2005 or so rarely go under say £3 used. For me the whole point of Naxos has been low price and Naxos has developped into a "mid-price" label rather than a budget label. That's why I go to full price labels instead to get superb stuff, but I also have to buy much less to keep the expensies reasonable.

For example the best deal for Symphony 6 I can see is £6.08+ £1.79 Delivery = £7.87 = 8,75 €! That's for a USED CD! In the past I walked into a store called "Anttila" in Helsinki and they had "buy 4, pay 3" Naxos campaign so I got 4 CDs for 3*8 € = 24 € = 6 € (£5.5) per disc for NEW CDs in plastic wrappings! So, I can get old Naxos cheap, but Naxos DIDN'T release Weinberg in the past! All of it is relatively new and "expensive." Other Weinberg releases are some old stuff on obcure labels, much of it OOP and the prices reflect that! CPO doesn't do symphonies because they coordinate with Naxos. So, exploring Weinberg's symphonies has been a pain in the ass! So frustrating! If Weinberg was as "famous" as Shostakovich (and he should be imo!)  there would be many boxes of all symphonies at affordable prices (all symphonies for 79 euros for example).

So, instead of Weinberg's symphonies I might buy a MIRARE label release of German baroque because they do it JUST RIGHT for my taste and it is heavenly! Pricy, but heavenly!

I agree—Naxos post-2008 or so is too rich for my blood. They'll be $12-15 new, and not much less than that used, maybe $11 apiece. Cheaper to go with another label at that point. Though it might be said that Naxos did step up their quality game in recent decades compared to their original run (which did have some gems).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Roy Bland on October 10, 2020, 04:52:55 PM
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODg0NTc2OC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MDIyNDcwMjN9)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scion7 on October 10, 2020, 06:00:25 PM
That disc was released in March 2020, but Amazon doesn't list it.  Available via Presto, though.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Daverz on October 10, 2020, 06:06:49 PM
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODg0NTc2OC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MDIyNDcwMjN9)

How am I supposed to resist that? <shakes fist>
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Scion7 on October 10, 2020, 09:15:52 PM
pull yourself together! you're not some robot, man! willpower!!!!   :P
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: André on February 07, 2021, 04:06:38 PM

A study of the quartets:

https://www.academia.edu/28121947/The_String_Quartets_of_Mieczysław_Weinberg_A_Critical_Study?email_work_card=abstract-read-more
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 07, 2021, 04:45:04 PM
A study of the quartets:

https://www.academia.edu/28121947/The_String_Quartets_of_Mieczys (https://www.academia.edu/28121947/The_String_Quartets_of_Mieczys)ław_Weinberg_A_Critical_Study?email_work_card=abstract-read-more

Many thanks.

I've been listening a lot to the 20th Symphony, Op. 150
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Old San Antone on February 07, 2021, 05:57:27 PM
A study of the quartets:

https://www.academia.edu/28121947/The_String_Quartets_of_Mieczysław_Weinberg_A_Critical_Study?email_work_card=abstract-read-more

Interesting.  Weinberg's quartets are the works I am interested in the most.  I will take a look, although I generally don't enjoy analyses of music.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on February 07, 2021, 06:19:09 PM
Interesting.  Weinberg's quartets are the works I am interested in the most.  I will take a look, although I generally don't enjoy analyses of music.

The quartets are all excellent.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on June 20, 2021, 09:22:52 AM
This is a fabulous disc, especially the Cello Concerto and Concertino:
(http://)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 20, 2021, 06:35:27 PM
This is a fabulous disc, especially the Cello Concerto and Concertino:
(https://img.discogs.com/j8RqkIzzcTOG9pWSCq9IMGsKGxU=/fit-in/600x586/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-15583482-1594033196-6409.png.jpg)

A great disc, indeed. I should give it another listen.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on June 20, 2021, 09:38:32 PM
A great disc, indeed. I should give it another listen.
It is indeed and the 'Fantasy' Op. 52 is also excellent. I must say that I hadn't realised that the Cello Concerto is an expanded version of the Concertino and was surprised when they opened with the same beautiful and soulful tune, but I'm very happy to have it repeated! I'd say that these are amongst Weinberg's finest works (or at least of the ones I have heard) along with the Piano Quintet and symphonies 1,3,5 and 6.
Marvellous cover art from the tragic Felix Nussbaum who died in the Holocaust.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on June 21, 2021, 01:23:27 AM
This is a fabulous disc, especially the Cello Concerto and Concertino:
(http://)

Unfortunately I don't own that CPO disc (but I have many other such as one containing Violin Concertino Op. 42 and Symphony No. 10). However, I have the Op. 43 Cello Concerto on a Chandos SACD with Symphony No. 20.  :)

I'm sorry I don't post much anymore. It is because I don't feel welcome. Moderators check my posts and it can delay them appearing for others by up to a day! So I spend most of my time elsewhere where I feel more welcome.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 21, 2021, 05:30:15 AM
It is indeed and the 'Fantasy' Op. 52 is also excellent. I must say that I hadn't realised that the Cello Concerto is an expanded version of the Concertino and was surprised when they opened with the same beautiful and soulful tune, but I'm very happy to have it repeated! I'd say that these are amongst Weinberg's finest works (or at least of the ones I have heard) along with the Piano Quintet and symphonies 1,3,5 and 6.
Marvellous cover art from the tragic Felix Nussbaum who died in the Holocaust.

Ah yes, I forgot that the Cello Concerto and Concertino share those characteristics. Have you heard any of the Violin Sonatas, Cello Sonatas or the Clarinet Sonata? I’d also highly recommend his Piano Sonatas. In terms of other orchestral works, the ballet The Golden Key is a great fun. Both the Clarinet Concerto and Flute Concertos Nos. 1 & 2 are definitely worth hearing as as the Sinfoniettas. Also if you haven’t listened to any of the Chamber Symphonies, then do rectify this as well!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on June 21, 2021, 05:56:19 AM
Ah yes, I forgot that the Cello Concerto and Concertino share those characteristics. Have you heard any of the Violin Sonatas, Cello Sonatas or the Clarinet Sonata? I’d also highly recommend his Piano Sonatas. In terms of other orchestral works, the ballet The Golden Key is a great fun. Both the Clarinet Concerto and Flute Concertos Nos. 1 & 2 are definitely worth hearing as as the Sinfoniettas. Also if you haven’t listened to any of the Chamber Symphonies, then do rectify this as well!
Thanks very much John - I will look out for these works. I suspect that I already have some in my collection ::).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 21, 2021, 06:05:07 AM
Thanks very much John - I will look out for these works. I suspect that I already have some in my collection ::).

Very nice. Unfortunately, there isn’t a complete recording of The Golden Key --- only Suites Nos. 1-4 and the real head-scratcher is Nos. 1-3 were released on Olympia (w/ selections from the 4th suite), but No. 4 was released on Chandos (w/ Svendlund/Gothenburg SO).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on June 21, 2021, 06:20:00 AM
Very nice. Unfortunately, there isn’t a complete recording of The Golden Key --- on Suites Nos. 1-4 and the real head-scratcher is Nos. 1-3 were released on Olympia (w/ selections from the 4th suite), but No. 4 was released on Chandos (w/ Svendlund/Gothenburg SO).
That work rings a bell John - I'm sure that I have some extracts in my collection somewhere, possibly kindly sent to me by André some while back  :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 21, 2021, 06:45:02 AM
That work rings a bell John - I'm sure that I have some extracts in my collection somewhere, possibly kindly sent to me by André some while back  :)

Yeah, I just love those screechy Weinberg Soviet recordings on Olympia. ;D But IIRC, this recording of The Golden Key actually sounded quite good (I believe it was an 80s or early 90s recording).
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: André on June 21, 2021, 07:35:24 AM
That work rings a bell John - I'm sure that I have some extracts in my collection somewhere, possibly kindly sent to me by André some while back  :)

 :)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 21, 2021, 02:04:10 PM
Unfortunately I don't own that CPO disc (but I have many other such as one containing Violin Concertino Op. 42 and Symphony No. 10). However, I have the Op. 43 Cello Concerto on a Chandos SACD with Symphony No. 20.  :)

I'm sorry I don't post much anymore. It is because I don't feel welcome. Moderators check my posts and it can delay them appearing for others by up to a day! So I spend most of my time elsewhere where I feel more welcome.

Good to hear from you, Poju.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: vandermolen on June 21, 2021, 02:46:31 PM
Good to hear from you, Poju.
+1
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: Mirror Image on June 21, 2021, 02:53:26 PM
Unfortunately I don't own that CPO disc (but I have many other such as one containing Violin Concertino Op. 42 and Symphony No. 10). However, I have the Op. 43 Cello Concerto on a Chandos SACD with Symphony No. 20.  :)

I'm sorry I don't post much anymore. It is because I don't feel welcome. Moderators check my posts and it can delay them appearing for others by up to a day! So I spend most of my time elsewhere where I feel more welcome.

Where’ve you been hiding, Poju?!?!?
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: 71 dB on June 21, 2021, 03:27:05 PM
Good to hear from you, Poju.
+1

Thanks you both!  ;)

Where’ve you been hiding, Poju?!?!?

As I said, "elsewhere." However, I have made a few posts here. Also, I am totally done with US politics and now that TYT has been exposed as frauds I feel ashamed for having taken them seriously. Yet another failure in my life...  :(

Anyway there is Weinbergs music to enjoys...  0:)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: relm1 on September 25, 2021, 04:14:10 PM
I really enjoyed this disc and highly recommend it!  Excellent performance, great recorded sound and very finely crafted music.

(https://cdn.naxos.com/SharedFiles/images/cds/others/8.572752.gif)
https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.572752 (https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.572752)
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 25, 2021, 04:22:40 PM
I really enjoyed this disc and highly recommend it!  Excellent performance, great recorded sound and very finely crafted music.

(https://cdn.naxos.com/SharedFiles/images/cds/others/8.572752.gif)
https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.572752 (https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.572752)

I like that 'un, too!
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: relm1 on October 31, 2021, 05:23:40 PM
I heard Weinberg’s Symphony No. 22 for the first time just now and was blown away by it.  Very moving and defiant tone with a solemn and powerful conclusion, yet the final seconds felt chamber.  Really wonderful work.
Title: Re: Mieczysław Weinberg (1919-1996)
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 31, 2021, 07:00:28 PM
I heard Weinberg’s Symphony No. 22 for the first time just now and was blown away by it.  Very moving and defiant tone with a solemn and powerful conclusion, yet the final seconds felt chamber.  Really wonderful work.

Terrific!