Stockhausen's Spaceship

[steve ridgway]

Webern's dream of having his works whistled has been quasi-usurped by Stockhausen and the marketing guys and gals at DGG!   

Lightning struck twice with this double album in die-cut gatefold sleeve! 

[bhodges]

Lightning struck twice with this double album in die-cut gatefold sleeve! 

That is the most beautiful cover I've seen in a long time. While the contents are probably great, I'd be tempted to get this just for the art alone!

--Bruce

[Rex]

There is a superb production of Dienstag, by Maxine Pascal and Le Balcon in La Grande Salle Pierre Boulez at the Philharmonie, Paris (recorded in 2020). The video of the complete opera is here: https://philharmoniedeparis.fr/fr/live/concert/1136785-stockhausen-dienstag-aus-licht

The sound is pretty good for a streaming video, and being able to see a production very much enriches my previous experience of the opera. Nevertheless, it is still necessary to listen to the release from the Stockhausen Verlag to get the full and immense power of his sound world in this opera.

[Mandryka]

There is a superb production of Dienstag, by Maxine Pascal and Le Balcon in La Grande Salle Pierre Boulez at the Philharmonie, Paris (recorded in 2020). The video of the complete opera is here: https://philharmoniedeparis.fr/fr/live/concert/1136785-stockhausen-dienstag-aus-licht

The sound is pretty good for a streaming video, and being able to see a production very much enriches my previous experience of the opera. Nevertheless, it is still necessary to listen to the release from the Stockhausen Verlag to get the full and immense power of his sound world in this opera.

Freitag is playing this November in Cité de la Musique. I can't wait for this partly because I like the idea of hearing Freitags Gruss before going into the theatre - I hope they do it like that. And hearing the Abschied as I'm leaving.

[Rex]

Freitag is playing this November in Cité de la Musique. I can't wait for this partly because I like the idea of hearing Freitags Gruss before going into the theatre - I hope they do it like that. And hearing the Abschied as I'm leaving.

Oh yes! I would love to be able to go to that performance! Unfortunately I live on the other side of the world, so at this stage I could not be optimistic.
Freitag is perhaps the opera of Licht I have the least understanding of. But the music is incredible. Both the Gruss and the Abschied are terrifying and wonderful!
I think after experiencing a production of Freitag, I'd be hanging out for the redemption of Sonntag!
I think the Licht project of Le Balcon, and Maxime Pascal is completely heroic. I wish they would put these productions on video at some time.
If you go, I hope you have an extraordinary experience - and tell us about it here too.

[petrarch]

There's a new recording of Carré:

[asin]B09WCJT484[/asin]

Very curious about how it differs from the one released on SV/DG, dating from 1960.

[Mandryka]

There's a new recording of Carré:

[asin]B09WCJT484[/asin]

Very curious about how it differs from the one released on SV/DG, dating from 1960.

Well it's in surround sound, which, given the nature of the music, seems quite a plus!

[Rex]

There's a new recording of Carré:

[asin]B09WCJT484[/asin]

Very curious about how it differs from the one released on SV/DG, dating from 1960.

My SACD  of the new Carré recording arrived yesterday, and today I listened to it in depth, and also compared with a re-listening of the Stockhausen Verlag recording.

They are both wonderful recordings of a powerful and very beautiful work. Listening to both recordings on cd format, they do have different 'personalities' that seem to me very much related to the times they were made. The 1960 recording supervised by Stockhausen has, of course, that particular authenticity, and somehow the 'personality' I spoke of is the same effect that comes across in recordings of e.g. Gruppen and Momente. How much that is influenced by the memories I have of those recordings when I first heard them nearly 50 years ago is hard to assess.

The new recording, recorded in 2016 with 'sound direction' under the supervision of Kathinka Pasveer, has a brighter and deeper sound field. The performance in its own way is just as wonderful. Somehow it does sound more of this time (I'm not quite sure what created that impression for me) and the performance of both choirs and orchestras are remarkably excellent. If I had to choose between the two recordings on the basis of the 2 channel cd listening, I would not be able to give a preference. I could never let go the original, because of its historical importance, and because it's the performance that I first fell in love with!

But - listening to the SACD of the new recording does certainly make a difference. However there is a precaution regarding my review of this as a surround sound experience. First is that this assessment is made by 72 year old ears, that have lost some of their acuity. Second is that my sound system is a typical 5 speaker system made for listening to SACD and movie surround sound, which has 2 main large Wharfedale speakers at the front, and smaller rear and centre speakers. These are primarily designed to give a sense of ambience in most SACD recordings rather than a complete 360 degree surround sound experience. Also, my listening environment has a large 3 seater couch facing the front, with a back that to some extent diminishes some of the sound coming from behind. I found that standing up made the surround sound even more effective.
The other thing I notice is that our ears are designed to favour noise coming from in front of us. So turning to face the front or the back would change the dominance of which direction the sound seemed to be coming from.

All of that said, I found the sound from the SACD version very effective and at times completely thrilling. There is definitely separation of the four music groups between front and back and left and right. This was most effectively noticed in percussive sounds, whereas sounds from the choir and e.g. strings did (to my ears) wash a bit more, and had a more ambient quality. But the detail and clarity of the sound I found wonderful. And this did definitely contribute to a deeper understanding of the direction and structure of the music.

So, yes, if you have a good sound system, there are significant advantages in the surround sound qualities of this new recording. Personally I would not consider giving up either of the recordings I have of Carré, they are both treasures.

The Kagel piece, Chorbuch, I did not know before. I have listened to it once, and it sounds interesting. My one significant criticism I have of this CD is that the Kagel piece starts a mere 15 secs after Carré has finished, which is too much, too soon. I hadn't had time to recover from the experience of Carré.

To finish, I will quote from the booklet:  "Essentially the live experience of this music cannot be dispensed with, but this recording comes as close as possible to a live performance in its precision and spatial effect" - and that seems to me to be very fair assessment.

[staxomega]

I've been listening to my two recordings of Mantra (Kontarsky brothers, Corver/Grotenhuis) and went on Youtube to see if there were more recordings I hadn't heard and came across Stockhausen talking about it for two hours!

https://youtu.be/X8K9gkuHpMo
https://youtu.be/QASwHLZ_fBE

I agree with you, this is contemplative and damn good! Looking forward to really sinking into her interpretations more. Pi Hsien Chen is the other one unfamiliar to me I've been listening to, she is more direct.

The more I've been listening to Liebner play Klavierstücke over these years, I'm convinced it's one of the greatest piano works of the 20th century. Her interpretations really elevate them.

[Leo K.]

There's a new recording of Carré:

[asin]B09WCJT484[/asin]

Very curious about how it differs from the one released on SV/DG, dating from 1960.

Wow that looks very interesting. Thanks for the heads up!

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I've been listening to my two recordings of Mantra (Kontarsky brothers, Corver/Grotenhuis) and went on Youtube to see if there were more recordings I hadn't heard and came across Stockhausen talking about it for two hours!

https://youtu.be/X8K9gkuHpMo
https://youtu.be/QASwHLZ_fBE

The more I've been listening to Liebner play Klavierstücke over these years, I'm convinced it's one of the greatest piano works of the 20th century. Her interpretations really elevate them.

I don't know Stockhausen's works, but I am game for dipping into it.  Of the Klavierstücke, where would you suggest that I dive in?

PD

[staxomega]

I don't know Stockhausen's works, but I am game for dipping into it.  Of the Klavierstücke, where would you suggest that I dive in?

PD

This is tough to say as I view it as a cycle, when I want to hear them I just play the full thing, I've sometimes left off in the middle and resumed it later but that doesn't feel as satisfying as hearing it all at once.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

This is tough to say as I view it as a cycle, when I want to hear them I just play the full thing, I've sometimes left off in the middle and resumed it later but that doesn't feel as satisfying as hearing it all at once.

Thanks!

PD

[staxomega]

Thanks!

PD

Full disclosure that I like them so much because they feel like a natural extension of what Boulez was doing. They may be among the works that don't resemble Stockhausen as much

[petrarch]

Of the Klavierstücke, where would you suggest that I dive in?

To get acquainted with them, it is worth noting that there are various subsets in the cycle, mostly due to those in each subset being composed together or with the same "mindset" (like, for instance, I-IV and V-X, etc, with the number of pieces in each subset itself a serial arrangement of the numbers 1-6).

In terms of character, some pointers:
- I-IV work well together, as a very good example of pointillism and group composition (ultimately giving rise to Gruppen). I like these a lot.
- VII is the most textural, my favorite.
- IX is a well-known example of the use of repetition and gradual interruption, my other favorite.
- X is a well-known example of the use of clusters of varying densities.
- XI is a famous example of open form, with the score made up of fragments that the pianist is to choose wherever the eye may fall on the page.

The Kontarsky recording of I-XI is probably the authoritative one. Carver is the one for the later pieces.

[Mandryka]

I don't know Stockhausen's works, but I am game for dipping into it.  Of the Klavierstücke, where would you suggest that I dive in?

PD

Ivan Pavlov Klavierstuck XII

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYQkPXhhdGs&ab_channel=ausLICHT


Pollini klavierstuck IX

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqzZfMzba5I&ab_channel=verklaertenacht1899

Lukas Huisman Klavierstuck XVI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAe7e-WU55k&ab_channel=LukasHuisman

Rzewski Klavierstuck X

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lIHEvTPlDo&t=71s&ab_channel=FredericRzewski-Topic

[Mandryka]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000xshz

BBC programme on Licht.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions; I appreciate the time and efforts!

PD

[Uatu]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000xshz

BBC programme on Licht.

Thanks for that link! I haven't been keeping up with KS' music for the last few years so revisiting here has been a great way to catch up on what I've missed. I picked up the new recording of CARRE and although I don't have a surround system anymore it still sounds great. In fact, the piece sounds more contemporary than ever, especially with the trends coming out of the Nordic scenes.

The Worby program is great! No stone was unturned. I'm glad they addressed the 9/11 scandal head on. Simon's statements are hilarious. Seems like a nice guy.

[brewski]

Freitag is playing this November in Cité de la Musique. I can't wait for this partly because I like the idea of hearing Freitags Gruss before going into the theatre - I hope they do it like that. And hearing the Abschied as I'm leaving.

Oh yes! I would love to be able to go to that performance! Unfortunately I live on the other side of the world, so at this stage I could not be optimistic.
Freitag is perhaps the opera of Licht I have the least understanding of. But the music is incredible. Both the Gruss and the Abschied are terrifying and wonderful!
I think after experiencing a production of Freitag, I'd be hanging out for the redemption of Sonntag!
I think the Licht project of Le Balcon, and Maxime Pascal is completely heroic. I wish they would put these productions on video at some time.
If you go, I hope you have an extraordinary experience - and tell us about it here too.

You may have seen this live already, or this broadcast, but in any case, here is Freitag, available to view until April 25, 2024.

https://philharmoniedeparis.fr/en/live/1160308

-Bruce