Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord

Started by Que, April 14, 2007, 01:30:11 AM

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Mandryka

#1460
Quote from: premont on May 30, 2023, 10:56:33 AMI never thought that the "Affectlehre" could be applied strictly to Bach. If you look at his compositions in b-minor eg. you will find many different affects "portrayed". Take the WTC book I with the consoling prelude and the fugue with the heart-breaking chromatic writing. Or book II with the dramatic prelude and the light playful fugue. And how to explain that the French Ouverture from CÛ II originated in a c-minor composition which was transposed to b-minor. Which affect does has this piece display? The b-minor organ prelude (BWV 544) is extremely dramatic with an air of Good Friday, but its fugue is very balanced and harmonic even in the last and more compact part.

Well I'd have to know more about the affects associated with c minor and d minor to answer that!  I thought the application in the violin sonatas sounded good (Agsteribbe and Neve), and indeed I like Cera's French  Suites (especially when he's being moody in the early suites - something original there) and Egarr"s English Suites.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Interesting about single, particular emotions. In contrast, blues- African American folk/modern music- tend to convey ambivalent emotions and states. Blues is joyous AND sorrowful, elegant and vulgar, sacred and profane at the same time. Probably these ambivalent states are just effect, rather than intended goal, of the music. It seems to me, Tango and Flamenco are similar. 

premont

Quote from: Mandryka on May 30, 2023, 11:30:11 AMWell I'd have to know more about the affects associated with c minor and d minor to answer that!  I thought the application in the violin sonatas sounded good (Agsteribbe and Neve), and indeed I like Cera's French  Suites (especially when he's being moody in the early suites - something original there) and Egarr"s English Suites.

It seems as if the idea of the affects of the different keys has changed with time and even in the baroque age different composers had different ideas as to this. And the key isn't the only thing to determine the affect of a piece of music. Others are eg. tuning, tempo, rhythm, character of figurations and instrumentation. But also the affect different people associate with different keys is entirely subjective and most often it is difficult to put it into words. As to Bach's compositions I do not find a standard affect of the different keys. And with the many examples of transpositions made by himself he seems to contradict any standard no matter what Mattheson means about the subject. 
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premont

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on May 31, 2023, 03:51:24 AMInteresting about single, particular emotions.

It was a typical baroque way of thinking. And regardless of what we think determines the affect of a piece of music, we have to state that different movements in a piece of music can describe different affects, but within the individual movements, the affect is usually the same throughout.
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vers la flamme

Thoughts on Wolfgang Rübsam's recent recordings of the French Suites, English Suites and Partitas on the lautenwerck for Brilliant? I like his Goldberg Variations on Naxos very much, though my appreciation for that recording was a long time coming; my revisitations of it, followed by an initial negative reaction, were encouraged by comments by Mandryka and a few others here who were extremely enthusiastic about it at the time. But I've heard very little about these more recent Brilliant recordings.

Mandryka

Quote from: vers la flamme on June 01, 2023, 02:20:15 PMThoughts on Wolfgang Rübsam's recent recordings of the French Suites, English Suites and Partitas on the lautenwerck for Brilliant? I like his Goldberg Variations on Naxos very much, though my appreciation for that recording was a long time coming; my revisitations of it, followed by an initial negative reaction, were encouraged by comments by Mandryka and a few others here who were extremely enthusiastic about it at the time. But I've heard very little about these more recent Brilliant recordings.

I think they're reissues of his previous lute harpsichord recordings. Are you sure there are English Suites?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

vers la flamme

Quote from: Mandryka on June 01, 2023, 06:28:49 PMI think they're reissues of his previous lute harpsichord recordings. Are you sure there are English Suites?

Ah, it was the Toccatas that I saw, not the English Suites. I seem to recall that he had self-released some lute harpsichord recordings that were available on his website, is this what these are?

Mandryka

Quote from: vers la flamme on June 01, 2023, 07:15:30 PMAh, it was the Toccatas that I saw, not the English Suites. I seem to recall that he had self-released some lute harpsichord recordings that were available on his website, is this what these are?

I think so.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Atriod

Does anyone know what instrument Igor Kipnis is using here? Thanks


Mandryka

#1469
Quote from: Atriod on June 30, 2023, 09:49:28 AMDoes anyone know what instrument Igor Kipnis is using here? Thanks



Yes. It is by Rutkowski & Robinette,  based on (in some general way) the designs of Hieronymus Albrecht Hass. 
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Anooj

Quote from: vers la flamme on June 01, 2023, 02:20:15 PMThoughts on Wolfgang Rübsam's recent recordings of the French Suites, English Suites and Partitas on the lautenwerck for Brilliant? I like his Goldberg Variations on Naxos very much, though my appreciation for that recording was a long time coming; my revisitations of it, followed by an initial negative reaction, were encouraged by comments by Mandryka and a few others here who were extremely enthusiastic about it at the time. But I've heard very little about these more recent Brilliant recordings.

I have the French Suites CD, and it's brilliant and highly recommendable. Been thinking about getting those others as well, though I kind of find the ornamentation in the Partitas to sound messy and jumbled (based on sampling the recordings on YT).

Atriod

Quote from: Mandryka on June 30, 2023, 10:09:31 AMYes. It is by Rutkowski & Robinette,  based on (in some general way) the designs of Hieronymus Albrecht Hass. 

Thoughts on how it sounds? I loved the interpretation.

SonicMan46

#1472
Yesterday, I left the post below in a 'dormant WTC' thread w/ no responses, so reposting here - listening to Bk. 2 today and really enjoying the instrument and Rubsam's approach - anyone heard this recent recording?  Dave :)

Quote from: SonicMan46 on June 30, 2023, 11:33:06 AMTTT After 3 Years! 

Well, I already own 6 versions of the WTC (3 on piano; 3 on harpsichord) (see attachment) but saw the one below at a Presto Music sale for $13 USD (5 CDs) w/ Wolfgang Rubsam on a lute harpsichord made by Keith Hill - the recordings were done by Rubsam and stated to be from 2016-2017 according to the booklet.  Currently listening to BK. 1 and enjoying - some comments attached for those interested - after BK. 2 tomorrow, may have to cull one out; already have too many for my needs -  ;D  Dave

 

aukhawk

I think Rubsam's WTC1 works well and is enjoyable to listen to.  The instrument has a lovely tone.  His same approach in Book 2 threatens to descend into chaos as the music is, in general, more densely-scored and for my ears there is sometimes just too much going on.

San Antone

#1474
Quote from: SonicMan46 on July 01, 2023, 08:02:11 AMYesterday, I left the post below in a 'dormant WTC' tread w/ no responses, so reposting here - listening to Bk. 2 today and really enjoying the instrument and Rubsam's approach - anyone heard this recent recording?  Dave :)


I became acquainted with Rübsam's entire collection of the lautenwerk recordings when they first began coming out, and purchased them from his website a couple of years ago.  Initially I was very excited with his playing, but over time, his eccentricities began to compromise my enjoyment of the music. 

I do not regret buying them, and listen to them now in small doses. I am able to enjoy them in that manner.

Keith HIll, the builder of Rübsam's instruments, since moved his workshop from Michigan to the Nashville area.  I contacted him about availability of an instrument, and he sent an email reply same day.  But his instruments are way too expensive for my interest and budget.

Atriod

Anyone have thoughts on this? I liked his interpretation of the GV.


Mandryka

Quote from: Atriod on July 04, 2023, 07:11:08 AMAnyone have thoughts on this? I liked his interpretation of the GV.



I'm listening now for the first time. I don't know the music well enough to be any help really, except to say that it sounds fine to me. My main reason for posting was just to let you have the booklet if you haven't already seen it.

https://static.qobuz.com/goodies/18/000156681.pdf
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Atriod

Quote from: Mandryka on July 05, 2023, 05:30:08 AMI'm listening now for the first time. I don't know the music well enough to be any help really, except to say that it sounds fine to me. My main reason for posting was just to let you have the booklet if you haven't already seen it.

https://static.qobuz.com/goodies/18/000156681.pdf

Thanks, I ended up buying the CD last week. I enjoyed Świątkiewicz's interpretation of the music and didn't find the textures light because he chooses some grander sounding harpsichords. There is a nice lightness and spontaneity to these performances. Contrast the D minor Concerto against another recent recording that Harpsichord Jesus (Jean Rondeau) made and his is more driving with a pulsating rhythm and steely determination like his inception is carved in concrete. Whereas Świątkiewicz lets the music go. These are rather completely different interpretations. I would not want to be without either even if both won't be displacing my favorite performances.

milk


I recommend this from time to time because it gives me so much pleasure. This instrument is much different than the one Rubsam plays; it's stickier-sounding and generates more lasting overtones/harmonics, if these are the right terms to describe the effect I want to describe. Paul's playing is much different than Rubsam's. It might be best to compare him to some other Bach interpreters, but I'm not sure to whom. His playing is homely and rustic. I find it perfect for the afternoon.

San Antone

Quote from: milk on September 26, 2023, 04:56:12 PM
I recommend this from time to time because it gives me so much pleasure. This instrument is much different than the one Rubsam plays; it's stickier-sounding and generates more lasting overtones/harmonics, if these are the right terms to describe the effect I want to describe. Paul's playing is much different than Rubsam's. It might be best to compare him to some other Bach interpreters, but I'm not sure to whom. His playing is homely and rustic. I find it perfect for the afternoon.

Have you heard this one?



Pretty nice.