GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Name That Tune? => Topic started by: Dima on May 10, 2018, 07:11:25 AM

Title: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: Dima on May 10, 2018, 07:11:25 AM
Can somebody help me to recognize orchestral work of 20th century from this short fragment?
The file is attached.

Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: Cato on May 10, 2018, 07:25:20 AM
Can somebody help me to recognize orchestral work of 20th century from this short fragment?
Here you can play the file: https://yadi.sk/d/Ui_QyDv_EJXR2

It does not play.  Sorry!  I am not downloading it!  $:)
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: Dima on May 10, 2018, 07:38:27 AM
It does not play.  Sorry!  I am not downloading it!  $:)
Thank you, I have corrected the post and attached mp3 file.
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: relm1 on May 10, 2018, 04:05:37 PM
Though I don't know what it is, it sounds soviet so possibly Armenian/Georgian/Russian, etc.  Probably post 1945 and pre 1975. 
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: Cato on May 10, 2018, 04:26:46 PM
Though I don't know what it is, it sounds soviet so possibly Armenian/Georgian/Russian, etc.  Probably post 1945 and pre 1975.

Agreed!  Khachaturian or a Khachaturian klone, etc.
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: Christo on May 10, 2018, 11:55:30 PM
Agreed!  Khachaturian or a Khachaturian klone, etc.
Not Khatchaturian, but definitely Soviet/Russian. Mid 20th century.
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: Dima on May 11, 2018, 12:00:32 AM
Agreed!  Khachaturian or a Khachaturian klone, etc.
I hear that it sounds like him, but this does not help at all. I have not found this composition in Khachaturian music. I think it will be popular if it was his work.
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: Josquin13 on May 31, 2018, 12:57:45 PM
I'd wager good money that Leonard Bernstein could answer your question--if he were still with us, as your music has a similarity to parts of Bernstein's Candide.  Therefore, I'd be surprised if Bernstein didn't know it.

But yes, it does sounds Soviet, & from the 1st half of the 20th century.  Given its dynamic, theatrical rhythms--could it be part of a ballet or some other work by Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Myaskovsky (or even Gliere?), if not by Khachaturian, I wonder?
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: some guy on July 02, 2018, 04:04:55 AM
Well, "definitely" has already been used once--and it is definitely not Soviet.

It's definitely, if I may be so bold as to use that word, Kodály.

Probably Peacock Variations, but I'm too lazy to look it up. Also could be one of the dances pieces, Dances of Galánta or Dances of Marosszék.
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: Dima on July 02, 2018, 10:18:55 PM
Well, "definitely" has already been used once--and it is definitely not Soviet.

It's definitely, if I may be so bold as to use that word, Kodály.

Probably Peacock Variations, but I'm too lazy to look it up. Also could be one of the dances pieces, Dances of Galánta or Dances of Marosszék.

Very interesting music but it is not this piece (I have listened).
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: some guy on July 04, 2018, 12:11:32 AM
Well, you could do a lot worse than just listen to everything by u until you find it.

And even, in the the unlikely event that you don't, you've still had a lot of fun, eh?

(Kodály's output is not that large, btw.)
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: Christo on July 10, 2018, 03:21:47 AM
Well, "definitely" has already been used once--and it is definitely not Soviet.

It's definitely, if I may be so bold as to use that word, Kodály.

Probably Peacock Variations, but I'm too lazy to look it up. Also could be one of the dances pieces, Dances of Galánta or Dances of Marosszék.
Oh no, definitely not Kodály.  ;) ;D (I happen to know these pieces, actually all of his orchestral pieces (there are indeed not that many), and this is very different. Bernstein's Candide makes a better comparison, but I still think it stems from Soviet times.
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: some guy on July 12, 2018, 01:52:32 AM
I definitely did not snag it when I listened to most of the Kodály that I have. Pfffft.

I'll be listening to the entire Hary Janos later today, because I can.

Anyway, what really bugs me about this clip is that the music is quite familiar to me. Has been for many years. And the doodle-oo bit after the soft part that follows that Khatchaturian-ish part sounds like nobody else but Kodály.

So where IS everybody here? And is there anybody for whom this is as familiar as it is to me.

I'm not losing any sleep, but this is seriously starting to annoy me. (A characteristic bit of Prokofiev's Sinfonia concertante floated into my head this morning. Took me at least an hour to identify it. Maybe my brain is just turning to mush, eh? Hey, it could happen.)
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 12, 2018, 02:55:35 AM
Embrace the mush.
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: Madiel on July 12, 2018, 03:55:20 AM
There are several "Galops" by Khachaturian and Shostakovich that sound quite a lot like it.
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: relm1 on July 12, 2018, 04:52:25 AM
There are several "Galops" by Khachaturian and Shostakovich that sound quite a lot like it.

But those are very distinctive composers with immediately recognizable fingerprints as is the case with Prokofiev.  They sound like no one else and even if its a work unknown to us, we'd recognize the composer as being them.  This work makes me think it is a little known composer but in similar time and place of either Soviet Union or Eastern Europe mid 20th century.
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: bwv 1080 on July 12, 2018, 04:57:27 AM
Without digging around, is it maybe some of Schnittke's soundtrack music?
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: Madiel on July 12, 2018, 05:10:07 AM
They sound like no one else

Seriously? People line up to comment on the resemblance to Khachaturian and you claim he sounds like no-one else?

And when it comes to Shostakovich, we're talking here about the ballet music. Not the most inherently distinctive part of that composer's output either. In fact, given the trajectory of his career, I'd go so far as to say there are works by Shostakovich that don't especially sound like "Shostakovich".

The whole idea that composers have such "distinctive fingerprints" that they can't possibly be confused with anyone else is belied by the whole uncertain history of musicology. At the very least they risk being confused in the early parts of their career with their teachers and those they imitated, and later on they might be the teacher or person imitated.

When I tell you that there are several Galops by Khachaturian and Shostakovich that sound quite similar to the sound file, that's because I just did direct comparisons between this recording and recordings of Galops by Khachaturian and Shostakovich. I didn't make any declaration that it was actually a work by Khachaturian or Shostakovich. In fact, given that other people had already referred to those composers, the more significant point was that the piece might be a Galop.
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: Irons on October 20, 2018, 01:06:22 AM
I find unknown composers and works (to me) irresistible. More often then not their lack of fame is deserved but occasionally a gem turns up which makes it all worthwhile. For a gem to turn up in garbage is something indeed! I have never heard of the Czech composer Ivan Rezac, and when I came across the odd title Sinfonietta "The Angel on the Garbage-Heath" I took a punt. A find of the year by a margin. My recording has Belohlavek conducting the Brno Philharmonic, I have found another on YouTube -
https://youtu.be/aME9uQWoXYc
 
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: vandermolen on November 14, 2018, 07:26:37 AM
I find unknown composers and works (to me) irresistible. More often then not their lack of fame is deserved but occasionally a gem turns up which makes it all worthwhile. For a gem to turn up in garbage is something indeed! I have never heard of the Czech composer Ivan Rezac, and when I came across the odd title Sinfonietta "The Angel on the Garbage-Heath" I took a punt. A find of the year by a margin. My recording has Belohlavek conducting the Brno Philharmonic, I have found another on YouTube -
https://youtu.be/aME9uQWoXYc

I have the old LP with that greatly titled work.
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: Dima on April 24, 2020, 12:12:39 PM
Can somebody help me to recognize orchestral work of 20th century from this short fragment?
The file is attached.
Friends, I found myself who was that genius....
It was Zoltán Kodály : Ballet Music for orchestra (originally for the opera, Háry János) (1925):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yoo1ZNpDnjE
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: Madiel on April 24, 2020, 06:49:29 PM
Glad to hear you've figured it out!
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on May 03, 2020, 12:22:52 PM
I find unknown composers and works (to me) irresistible. More often then not their lack of fame is deserved but occasionally a gem turns up which makes it all worthwhile. For a gem to turn up in garbage is something indeed! I have never heard of the Czech composer Ivan Rezac, and when I came across the odd title Sinfonietta "The Angel on the Garbage-Heath" I took a punt. A find of the year by a margin. My recording has Belohlavek conducting the Brno Philharmonic, I have found another on YouTube -
https://youtu.be/aME9uQWoXYc
Irons,

I tried that link and it said that the account was private.  Any other idea where I could hear it?

PD
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: some guy on June 03, 2020, 12:52:51 PM
So why was my response to this deleted?

Hmmm.*

All I did was call attention to my original response on this thread: "definitely Kodály."

I'll use this strange deletion to add that this thread really tried my credulity, stretched it beyond the point where ripping and tearing of the fabric commences. Here is a site for classical music fans, for people who listen to music a lot and who have a lot of knowledge about it. But no one else, no one, offered up Kodály as a possibility. That's pretty astonishing. The music Dima gave us could really have been written by no one but Kodály, and even though I didn't identify the piece, I am still going to embarrass myself as well by pointing out that it turned out to have been from Kodály's single most popular piece.

Who are we, after all? What do we know?

That I didn't know which piece by Kodály is definitely a fail. But not knowing that a piece with obvious Kodály material is not by Kodály is even worse, I think. Maybe I'm wrong to think this way, but not instantly hearing Kodály in this piece is pretty alarming.

*The glitch in the site from a little while ago? If so, I will add here my praise of the effort to save the site. Losing a few posts here and there is nothing. Kudos!
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: JBS on June 03, 2020, 01:05:17 PM
It was indeed the server crash.

But I submit that Kodaly's style (and most other composers) is not so obvious as might be thought.
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: some guy on June 03, 2020, 04:32:27 PM
It certainly seems to be not at all obvious to most posters here.

It just as certainly seems to be obvious to me.

Most other composers as well.

This could be attributed to my supernatural gift of recognition. Except that I have no such gift.

Back when I lived in one place for an extended period of time, I used to be a part of regular music soirees. Every once and awhile, we would try to trick each other with unidentified music which we were to guess. It was a difficult task. The tricking part, that is. We were rarely fooled. My expectation is that that is how it should be.

My question now is "how is it that Kodály's style, along with that of most other composers, is not obvious to fans of classical music?"

My credulity is broken.
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: Madiel on June 03, 2020, 05:13:24 PM
Entirely depends on how many people are both familiar with Kodály and read this thread. Presupposing that all "fans of classical music" have listened to lots of Kodály is a bit like presupposing that all fans of popular music have listened to a rock band that had a few songs edge into the top 40 some years ago. There are plenty of people on here whose chief interest is a different era or style.
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: some guy on June 03, 2020, 06:13:21 PM
Well, not entirely.

Just the folks who contributed to this thread. Of those people, there may indeed be some who don't know Kodály.

Still.

Anyway, I do appreciate your effort to repair my credulity. It was the only one I had!
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: SimonNZ on July 06, 2020, 04:01:27 PM
I envy your steel-trap mind. Mine is a plastic sieve.

Even when I hear works on the radio that I (used to) own ten recordings of I'll still most of the time be beating myself up because I can't quite place it accurately.
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: some guy on July 07, 2020, 10:41:46 AM
I think my mind is probably more plastic than steel and full of holes.

So if you were being sarcastic, then all is well.

Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: SimonNZ on July 07, 2020, 02:02:34 PM
No. I was sincerely paying you a compliment.
Title: Re: Unknown 20th century orchestral work
Post by: some guy on July 07, 2020, 07:55:45 PM
And I thank you. I like sarcasm, a lot. But I like compliments as well. :-)