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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: zamyrabyrd on October 06, 2007, 10:31:49 PM

Title: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: zamyrabyrd on October 06, 2007, 10:31:49 PM
Is anyone here into Medieval Music? I just discovered a real swinging lady who was not mentioned in Grout when I was studying Music History. I thought to start a thread on Hildegard von Bingen (1098-1179) as a composer in her own write, but it may be more interesting to compare her to others.

Here is a good site to start:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/med/hildegarde.html

"...When few women were accorded respect, she was consulted by and advised bishops, popes, and kings. She used the curative powers of natural objects for healing, and wrote treatises about natural history and medicinal uses of plants, animals, trees and stones. She is the first composer whose biography is known. She founded a vibrant convent, where her musical plays were performed..."

There is a clip in the new Norton Anthology, done really well (more lively than some other recordings) of the "In Principio" from her largely plainchant "Ordo Virtutem" (the Play of the Virtues) for 27 women's voices and one man (the devil). Well, she was mainly surrounded by nuns so the preference for female voices is understandable...

ZB
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Lethevich on October 07, 2007, 12:03:24 AM
I love pre-baroque early music, although I don't have a particularly great knowledge of it on a technical level.

My favourites are Hildegard, Alfonso X's Cantigas de Santa Maria (I believe it's unsure which are attributed to him, and many are certainly by others, so generally they are all referred to as "his" works, but he just collected and published them), Pérotin, Dunstaple (very late medieval, but he is too wonderful to decide to leave out...) and above all Machaut, who, to me, is the only medieval composer who compares to renaissance era composers in terms of large surviving output, and is one of the rare medieval composers who can be understood sort of as a person rather than an almost anonymous writer of religious music. His music ranges from challenging and spikey (motets), very deep (Messe de Nostre Dame), to highly poetic, and uniquely insightful on non-religious themes (his accompanied poems).

Edit: A perhaps surprising amount of very early composers were female - amongst the ones known by only one name, pre-1000 ad, I believe there are 3 or 4.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: 71 dB on October 07, 2007, 12:51:12 AM
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on October 06, 2007, 10:31:49 PM
Is anyone here into Medieval Music?

Not really. Too simple for my taste. I like Alfonso X thou.  :D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Lethevich on October 07, 2007, 12:56:54 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on October 07, 2007, 12:51:12 AM
Too simple for my taste.

Perhaps try this - it's an isorhythmic motet by Machaut, and audibly technical without any need to analyse (which would no doubt reveal much more).

http://www.mediafire.com/?fxj7dwnmvnx
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: 71 dB on October 07, 2007, 01:07:33 AM
Quote from: Lethe on October 07, 2007, 12:56:54 AM
Perhaps try this - it's an isorhythmic motet by Machaut, and audibly technical without any need to analyse (which would no doubt reveal much more).

http://www.mediafire.com/?fxj7dwnmvnx

Thanks! That wasn't bad. Maybe I explore this Machaut.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on October 07, 2007, 01:14:23 AM
I like medieval music. Machaut is superb. And the Florentine composers, Ciconia and above all Landini, are favorites. Dunstaple as well. Where to draw the line between medieval and renaissance though? Is Dufay clearly renaissance?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on October 07, 2007, 01:27:48 AM
This is a must:

(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/ZZT021002-2.jpg)

This,also on zig-zag, has received superb reviews and are currently on my wish list.

(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/ZZT050603.jpg)

Micrologus have done a series of fine recordings for Opus 111 worth seeking out.

And then you have the series of fine recordings by Gothic Voices on Hyperion, though they crosses over into early renaissance as often as not. Though I don't think that is a proble, or that the distinction is necessarily very clear-cut.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: FideLeo on October 07, 2007, 01:32:42 AM
Quote from: erato on October 07, 2007, 01:14:23 AM
I like medieval music. Machaut is superb. And the Florentine composers, Ciconia and above all Landini, are favorites. Dunstaple as well. Where to draw the line between medieval and renaissance though? Is Dufay clearly renaissance?

Dufay's isorhythmic motets are often viewed as the last medieval works in the genre.   Some of the most complex medieval music was produced sometime before Dufay at the Papal court at Avignon in the style of "Ars subtilior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars_subtilior)"  For me the best medieval music recordings were made by a group called "Ensemble Gilles Binchois (http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/performers/binchois.html)" (on the Cantus, Virgin Verita and Ambrosie labels) ranging from plainchants to Leonin and Perotin to Machaut's "Messe de Nostre Dame" to the chansons by Dufay and Binchois.  The Austrian Unicorn Ensemble (http://www.unicorn-ensemble.at), which once recorded for Naxos, have made some affordable and fun recordings as well, in very good sound.  Enthusiasts of the Cantigas and Andalusian repertories should seek out issues from the ongoing integral series by the Spanish Ensemble Eduardo Paniagua (http://www.ctv.es/USERS/pneuma/spain.htm).  I like them a lot more than I do the various Jordi Savall efforts.   :D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Lethevich on October 07, 2007, 01:32:55 AM
Quote from: erato on October 07, 2007, 01:14:23 AM
Is Dufay clearly renaissance?

He is part of the Burgundy School which is considered very early renaissance.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on October 07, 2007, 01:38:36 AM
Quote from: Lethe on October 07, 2007, 01:32:55 AM
He is part of the Burgundy School which is considered very early renaissance.
Yes - but lots of his motets and chansons are stylistically much closer to Machaut than to the high renaissance. But whatever; if one likes Medieval Music one should look into early Dufay. And the transformation of this into renaissance is very interesting, as are all major stylistic shifts (like the transformation into Baroque in Tuscany/northern Italy, fin-de-siecle Vienna or between-the wars Paris.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Lethevich on October 07, 2007, 01:42:03 AM
Quote from: erato on October 07, 2007, 01:38:36 AM
Yes - but lots of his motets and chansons are stylistically much closer to Machaut than to the high renaissance. But whatever; if one likes Medieval Music one should look into early Dufay. And the transformation of this into renaissance is very interesting, as are all major stylistic shifts (like the transformation into Baroque in Tuscany/northern Italy, fin-de-siecle Vienna or between-the wars Paris.

I definitely consider Binchois's secular music similar to Machaut in spirit.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: lukeottevanger on October 07, 2007, 01:51:58 AM
I am particularly interested in the aforementioned Italian-French Ars subtilior (AKA the Fourteenth Century Avant-Garde) - if 71 dB is looking for complexity, he need look no further. Rhythmically speaking, there is nothing to match the most extreme of these pieces until Stravinsky. A obscure byway, perhaps, from the medieval mainstream, but in these composers, as in Machaut, we really sense something of the modern concept of 'the composer'. The most intruiging figure, to my mind, is Matteo da Perugia (Perusio), whose Le Greygnour Bien I have often mentioned in threads of this kind - an utterly astonishing piece. As for recommended discs (these are the same ones I always recommend!):

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/21EDEGEQ6GL._AA130_.jpg)
Simply the best - fresh, vernal, stunning readings of this repertoire, including Le Greygnour Bien and also some unbelievable 'birdsong'. Mixes French and Italian repertoire. (Samples at Amazon - try tracks 2 and 3, though I'm not sure if they have included the birdsong... (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ars-Subtilior-Grimace/dp/B0000269O0/ref=sr_1_3/026-5275857-5449242?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1191750129&sr=1-3)

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/616VTNNF9AL._AA240_.gif)
There are also (at least) two discs by Perdo Memelsdorff's Mala Punica (Ars Subtilis Ytalica and D'Amor Ragionando, the latter pictured above) which focus on Italian music and take a much slower, more sensuous approach. Gorgeous music making too.

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/21KG3PZY6ML._AA130_.jpg)
Though I have a few more discs in this repertoire - including the magnificent Perusio-only one pictured above - I haven't bought any recently (well, apart from the one I just one-clicked on!) so can't comment on some of the very seductive-looking discs I've just seen whilst image-searching!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: lukeottevanger on October 07, 2007, 01:55:28 AM
Quote from: erato on October 07, 2007, 01:38:36 AM
...the transformation of this into renaissance is very interesting, as are all major stylistic shifts (like the transformation into Baroque in Tuscany/northern Italy, fin-de-siecle Vienna or between-the wars Paris.

That's a very important point, and one which I've made before when expressing my interest in the Ars subtilior. Another similar point of hyper-expressive complexity is found in the empfindsamer Stil whose finest exponents, perhaps, are CPE and WF Bach (the latter more extreme, the former more consummate)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on October 07, 2007, 01:59:51 AM
Quote from: lukeottevanger on October 07, 2007, 01:55:28 AM
That's a very important point, and one which I've made before when expressing my interest in the Ars subtilior. Another similar point of hyper-expressive complexity is found in the empfindsamer Stil whose finest exponents, perhaps, are CPE and WF Bach (the latter more extreme, the former more consummate)
Yes, all major styles seems to go over the top before a new, simpler and different style emerges. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on October 07, 2007, 09:35:44 AM
Some important works, groups of works and composers from the medieval period 1100-1400:

Troubadours, Trouveres (Bernart de Ventadorn, Thibaut de Navarre, Colin Muset et.c.)

Minnesänger (Walter von der Vogelweide, Neidhart von Reuental et.c.)

Notre-Dame school   (Leonin, Perotin)

Cantigas de Santa Maria (Alphonso el Sabio)

Estampies

Carmina Burana

Missa Tournai

Guillaume de Machault

Llibre Vermell

Italian Ars nova (Landini)

Ars subtilior (Anthonello de Caserta, Johannes Ciconia)


Some importatant musicians and ensembles in casual order which have recorded medieval music and whose recordings can be safely recommended:

Studio der frühen Musik, München (Teldec and EMI):
Extensive discographie including almost all kinds of medieval music.

Ensemble für frühe Musik, Augsburg (Christophorus):

Clemencic Consort (Harmonia Mundi , Oehms and Arte Nova Classics)

Mala Punica (Arcana, Erato and Harmonia Mundi)

Ferrara Ensemble (Arcana, Harmonia Mundi)

Micrologous (Op 111)

Emmanuel Bonnardot and his ensembles Alla Francesca (Op 111, Virgin, ZigZag) and Obsidienne (Calliope)

La Reverdie (Arcana)

Ensemble Gilles Binchois (Cantus and Virgin)

New London Consort / PhilipPickett (L´Oiseau Lyre and Linn)

The Dufay Collective (Avie, Chandos and Harmonia Mundi)

Ensemble Unicorn and Oni Wytars (Naxos)

Paul Hillier and his ensembles Hilliard Ensemble (ECM, EMI and Hyperion) and Theatre of voices (Harmonia Mundi)

Gothic Voices (Hyperion)

Sequentia (German Harmonia Mundi)

Ensemble Organum / Marcel Peres (Harmonia Mundi)

The early Music Consort of London / David Munrow (EMI and Archive and Decca)

Musica Reservata (Philips)

Huelgas Ensemble (Pavane and Sony)

Anonymus Four (Harmonia Mundi)


Add to this a list of groups with only a few but important recordings:

Martin Best Mediaeval Ensemble (Nimbus),
New York´s ensemble for Early Music (Lyrichord),
Theatrum Instrumentorum (Arts),
Ensemble Anonymus (Analekta),
Tonus Peregrinus (Naxos),
Boston Camerata / Joel Cohen (Erato)
Modo Antiquo (Brilliant Classics)
Diabolus in Musica (Studio SM)
Orlando Consort (Archiv and Harmonia Mundi)

I have heard almost everything these groups have made of recordings of medieval music, and I find virtually nothing, which doesn´t pay in one way or the other. It is just to get started.

A fine starter might be the Harmonia Mundi 6CD release "Les tres riches heures du Moyen Age, containing recordings by among others: Ensemble Organum, Clemencic Consort and Anonymous Four.
Also the Early Music Consort of London´s three CDset "Music of the Gothic area" on Archiv,
the Machaut Mass by Clemencic Consort on Arte Nova,
the Llibre Vermell and Cantigas de Santa Maria CDs by Theatrum Instrumentorum on Arts,
the Messe de Tournai by Ensemble Organum on Harmonia Mundi,
the "Ars subtilis Ytalica" by Mala Punica on Arcana,
the Machault Motets by Hilliard Ensemble on ECM,
the recordings of secular Machault works by Gilles Binchois Ensemble on Cantus,
the Estampie collections by the Dufay Collective on Chandos and Avie,
the Estampie collections by the New York´s Ensemble on Lyrichord (2 CDs)
the "Beaute Parfaite" by Alla Francesca on Op 111 (containing Ars subtilior-works)
and Paul Hilliers solo CD "French Troubadour songs" on Harmonia Mundi.

As I said: Just to get started.










Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: hornteacher on October 07, 2007, 10:43:53 AM
Here's a great CD of 13th century organum (which is essentially when the Notre Dame school began expanding on plainchant melodies by adding other voices in 4ths and 5ths above or below the main chant.

http://www.amazon.com/Paris-1200-Kurt-Owen-Richards/dp/B00000C422/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-4924212-6205218?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1191782569&sr=8-1
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: 12tone. on October 07, 2007, 01:45:25 PM
Premont,

You don't like Jordi Savall, eh?  ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on October 07, 2007, 02:32:51 PM
Quote from: 12tone. on October 07, 2007, 01:45:25 PM
Premont,

You don't like Jordi Savall, eh?  ;D

Yes I do, and I own a considerable number of his recordings. But his contribution to medieval music is relative sparse. I would also tend to recommend his Llibre Vermell and his Cantigas de Santa Maria as well as his solo viol CD with medieval dances and traditional music, but I had to set a limit somewhere.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: zamyrabyrd on October 07, 2007, 11:07:34 PM
Premont, you heard ALL the music on your list? All honor to you. In the presence of such knowledgable people, I hardly dare raise my voice but at least, my personal preference is medieval music over baroque (excluding Bach). For one, the variety of styles is practically overwhelming. The least complicated, plainchant, is not simple at all, though.

In Grout's History of Music is a quote from Toynbee about the Church being the "chrysalis from which Western culture emerged", linking this up to the proliferation of the music in which the rites were carried. But more than that, prototypes of form and harmony are already in their incipient stages in plain chant with final, dominant, plagal, intoning notes, modes, limiting the smallest interval to the half step, areas of contrasting sections, eventually using the melodies themselves as bases for longer and more complicated compositions, etc.

As I said, I plead mainly ignorance and can only defer to those more learned than me.

ZB
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: jochanaan on October 08, 2007, 10:12:34 PM
I love medieval music too.  But like others have said, it needs good performers to give it life--ones that can do more than play the sparse notes, but know the style and are willing to go beyond what's written.

Be sure not to miss The Play of Daniel.  (Has that been recorded since the classic New York Pro Musica recording with Noah Greenberg?)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: FideLeo on October 08, 2007, 11:32:03 PM
Quote from: jochanaan on October 08, 2007, 10:12:34 PM

Be sure not to miss The Play of Daniel.  (Has that been recorded since the classic New York Pro Musica recording with Noah Greenberg?)

Yes.  At least once in the version by Harp Consort on DHM.

(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/6742/516rq78193lss500po6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: zamyrabyrd on October 16, 2007, 09:22:57 AM
Nice visuals with Gregorian chant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MbDqc3x97k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pl4znn-VrU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGdtll3KAqw

In general I prefer chant, plain, that is without instruments. Some of the other clips have organ, even harmonized (eeek!)

ZB
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Scriptavolant on October 16, 2007, 10:39:05 AM
I'm not an expert but I'm trying to expand my knowledge of medieval music, especially songs. So far I'd recommend this one, an absolute favorite of mine.

Sequentia, Love songs of the Middle Ages.
(http://images.mp3.pl/img/albums/njed4bj.jpg)



Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: beer on November 09, 2007, 02:48:59 AM
Hey

Not sure if it's meant to be dark but I watched this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1awjmVjTLm8) and I really like this kind of music. Same with the Lachrimae of Dowland. Or Praetorius' Bransles. Well they're dance music so I guess the dark theme is my own interpretation and they're actually renaissance but you know what I mean.

I need some pointers though because I couldn't really find albums that are themed around this kind of music
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Renfield on November 09, 2007, 03:21:52 AM
We've got a member who uses Josquin des Prez as his forum nickname, so I suspect you might have a recommendation or two, before long.

And if not from him, we've more than a few people who listen to this sort of music. ;)

(However, I'm not one of them. My current listening starts much later, historically. So I can't really help you, beyond pointing you to those who might.)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on November 09, 2007, 04:47:18 PM
Quote from: beer on November 09, 2007, 02:48:59 AM
Well they're dance music so I guess the dark theme is my own interpretation

Not necessarily. Mille Regretz is actually a French chanson, a polyphonic vocal genre of medieval origin which is characterized by the use of so called 'formes fixes', consisting of complex patterns of repetition of poetic verses (with refrain) fixed in different specific forms (chief among them the ballade, rondeau and virelai). Those chansons were not dance pieces, and are mostly malinconic in nature (which i believe is the word you were looking for).

The number of chansons (along with their foreign counterparts, particularly those of Italian origin) written during the middle ages (and early renaissance) is vast, but alas, not well represented in recordings, both in quantity or quality.

That said, there are still many notable exceptions out there which i think will probably be of your satisfaction.

My first recommendation is a newly released collection of chansons by Gilles Binchois performed by the Bjon Schmelzer ensemble (http://www.amazon.com/Joye-plaintes-Gilles-Bins-Binchois/dp/B000NOKA3K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194656699&sr=1-1) which i think is one of the greatest recordings made to date for this type of repertory. Binchois is probably the last truly great master of this form, though there are many other great examples from all the foremost renaissance composers.

Next, Le vray remede damour (http://www.amazon.com/Guillaume-Machaut-Vray-Remede-damour/dp/B00008A8H3/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194656929&sr=1-10), a collection of songs composed by Guillaume de Machaut, arguably, the first master of this genre, is another seminal centerpiece for this type of music. This one employs a plethora of different instrumental combinations which results in a greater array of colors compared to the usual viol performances (albeit this was usually the instrument of choice, after the human voice of course).

Matteo da Perugia (also known as 'Perusio'), possibly the greatest of Italian representatives is also another great choice, particularly this recording performed by the great Huelgas Ensemble (http://www.amazon.com/Matteo-Perugia-Helas-Avril-Puisque/dp/B0000029VL/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194657712&sr=1-5). Da Perugia is actually a member of the so called 'Ars Subtilior', a group of chansonniers who focused on all sorts of complex rhythmical patterns and explorations, in effect making this the 'avant-garde' of medieval times.

Aside from Mille Regretz, Josquin put out a decent number of chansons, many of which can be found in this recording by the Ensemble Janequin (http://www.amazon.com/Josquin-Desprez-Adieu-amours-Chansons/dp/B00009IC6K/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194658786&sr=1-3). While the performance is excellent, the ensemble made a few flawed decisions first by cutting out all the repeats and second by setting some of the songs without voice, which recent research suggests was never really the case as previously assumed (Actually, the Machaut disc i mentioned above share some of the same problems but the results work so well it actually works quit well, plus they leave plenty of space for the some of the songs to breath). It's too bad because the melodies are really beautiful, as customary with Josquin. Hopefully some of the more recent ensembles, particularly the Bjon Schmelzer will pick this up and give the music full consideration.

I think this ought to suffice as an introduction, let me know if you are interested in more recommendations.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Renfield on November 09, 2007, 06:57:45 PM
And there you have it! 8)

In fact, I might as well end up using that recommendation myself, should I eventually decide to expand my listening towards music of that type and era. Thanks, Josquin. :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: bwv 1080 on November 09, 2007, 07:06:07 PM
For actual medieval music that has a heavy sound I would recommend the 12th century composer Perotin.  The ECM disc with the Hilliard Ensemble is the main one that is available
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on November 09, 2007, 07:24:51 PM
Quote from: bwv 1080 on November 09, 2007, 07:06:07 PM
For actual medieval music that has a heavy sound I would recommend the 12th century composer Perotin.  The ECM disc with the Hilliard Ensemble is the main one that is available

And the only disc anybody needs. Personally, i'd argue the heaviest recording of medieval music ever made is Machaut's Messe de Notre Dame as performed by the Ensemble Organum. Rough, rugged and mean as hell, as god intended.  ;D

Actually, almost everything the Ensemble Organum recorded is a must have. They are just that good.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: bwv 1080 on November 09, 2007, 07:45:52 PM
Two other good Medieval discs are the Ensemble PAN recordings:

The Island of St. Hylarion: Music of Cyprus, 1413-1422
Secular Music from the Chantilly Codex

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: FideLeo on November 09, 2007, 10:40:55 PM
I think what OP wants is some recommendations on Renaissance consort music,
or, more exactly, consort arrangements of Renaissance polyphony.  I'd say go for
single albums with music by A (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Agricola-Fortuna-desperata-Flemish-Ensemble/dp/B00000JMY2/ref=sr_1_2/202-5755644-1405439?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194676297&sr=8-2)gricola, B (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Byrd-Consort-Music-William/dp/B000025FC0/ref=sr_1_6/202-5755644-1405439?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194676500&sr=1-6)yrd, C (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cabez%C3%B3n-Tientos-y-Glosados-Antonio/dp/B00005COXU/ref=sr_1_1/202-5755644-1405439?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194676723&sr=1-1)abezon...Ortiz, Willaert, etc.  Or simply go for
good anthologies such as the España Antigua (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Espa%C3%B1a-Antigua-Francisco-Torre/dp/B00005NY5D/ref=sr_1_3/202-5755644-1405439?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194678003&sr=1-3) box with performances by Jordi Savall,
Canto a mi Caballero (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canto-mi-Caballero/dp/B00004VT4M/ref=sr_1_1/202-5755644-1405439?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194678967&sr=1-1) by Skip Sempe, Io canterei d'amor (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chansons-Madrigals-Viol-Consort-Cipriano/dp/B0000007C7/ref=sr_1_7/202-5755644-1405439?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194679897&sr=1-7) by Paolo Pandolfo
or this beautiful album performed by Hille Perle, Doulce memoire (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doulce-Memoire-C-Various/dp/B00004YMIY/ref=sr_1_6/202-5755644-1405439?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194679387&sr=1-6).

(http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9307/61kbprbxielss500zd9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Talking of doulce memoire, there is an early music group that goes by exactly
this name and their album of Renaissance dance music (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Renaissance-Winds-Ensemble-Doulce-Memoire/dp/B00000INWB/ref=sr_1_1/202-5755644-1405439?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194680110&sr=1-1) is really worthwhile,
however they are not so much a viol consort as a woodwind band and
the music is more grandiose than dark as desired, but all in all a
perfect introductory album to this repertory in the great Dorian sound.
Most of their other albums were released on Astree or Naive label,
and equally good as well. :)

(http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7200/320105yv2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

(http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7974/51yg7r6mn6lss500xa0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: beer on November 11, 2007, 01:20:48 AM
Interesting recommendations, especially from josquin and treverso.

However, and now I see I didnt stress this enough in my starters post, I'm looking only for instrumental music here. Not singing. I listened to sample music of the albums above I could find and they all contained song.

I love song, I love Josquin, Byrd, Morales, Willaert etc., but this time I'm looking for purely instumental, if possible string instruments only even, like in the YouTube example in my first post.

I'm just not in the mood for songs right now  ;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: FideLeo on November 11, 2007, 04:13:04 AM
Quote from: beer on November 11, 2007, 01:20:48 AM
I love song, I love Josquin, Byrd, Morales, Willaert etc., but this time I'm looking for purely instumental, if possible string instruments only even, like in the YouTube example in my first post.

Yes the recordings of "consort" pieces I recommended above are very much instrumental music - "Doulce memoire" performed by Hille Perl, for example, has mostly one or more viols (like those you saw in the youtube video).  Also sixteenth and seventeenth century English composers wrote original works for the viol consort: Byrd, Gibbons, Dowland, Jenkins, Lawes, Locke, Farrabosco, Purcell and so on so forth.  Ensembles like Hesperion XX, Fretwork or Phantasm have recorded tons in the kind of music you are looking for.  Check them out.

ps. Sorry about the "broken" links above; they are now fixed. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: beer on November 11, 2007, 11:13:46 PM
Could you exactly pinpoint some of the instrumental pieces please. I semi-randomly tried some of the samples on the amazon site but some didnt work and the ones that did work were all song.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Lethevich on November 11, 2007, 11:36:30 PM
Quote from: beer on November 11, 2007, 11:13:46 PM
Could you exactly pinpoint some of the instrumental pieces please. I semi-randomly tried some of the samples on the amazon site but some didnt work and the ones that did work were all song.

Most medieval/renaissance instrumental music CDs that I have heard generally feature ensemble as well as ensemble/singer works on the same disc, so it may be difficult to find any without singing. Savall has recorded a lot of Iberian instrumental music, but again, I can't think of any disc without voices included in some pieces. His music making is generally not what could be called "dark" anyway, it's joyous.

The only disc without any singing that I can recall offhand is this one (http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1173578/a/Allegri:+Le+Suites+Medicee+%2F+Gran+Consort+Li+Stromenti.htm), (and an alternate site) (http://www.amazon.com/Allegri-suites-medicee-Primo-Musiche/dp/B000009OD6). It's generic court music, not too lively sounding. I would also recommend listening to Amazon samples (if there are any) of discs performed by Fretwork, a viol consort which has been recorded many times. This disc (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dowland-Lachrimae-Consort-Music-Songs/dp/samples/B00000J2PT) may be of interest, but even this has singing on some tracks (but not most of them IIRC)...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: beer on November 15, 2007, 01:48:20 AM
Thanks man, I found some good pieces between these.


Unfortunately I kinda lost my interest in this music again for the time being hehe. But I will definitely remember this thread when it is revived in a few months...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Kullervo on November 17, 2007, 09:05:05 AM
Diverging from the "dark" medieval music thread, I thought it would be a good idea to help beginners (like me!) find an adequate foothold in the world of pre-Baroque vocal music. Thus far my listening has been extremely limited to a few scattered pieces by Tallis and Palestrina.

What are some pieces of this period with which no one interested in this sort of music can do without?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Lethevich on November 17, 2007, 10:46:02 AM
Renaissance is so much harder than Medieval due to the sheer amount of surviving stuff :D Some may disagree, but while excellent full-priced discs should not be ignored, there are enough budget priced ones by very good ensembles to focus just on cheaper discs while you are getting a taste.

Labels like Virgin/Veritas (twofers), Gimell (has some cheap compilations), ASV (tends to sell for relatively low amounts on Amazon Marketplace), Hyperion/Helios, Harmonia Mundi/Musique d'Abord, Naxos and others all have great ensembles and a wide range of music. It sounds like a cop-out to just say investigate the big names on these labels, but such explorative investigation discovers both masterworks and hidden gems, rather than being directed towards the warhorses (although with early music, that term applies much less, given how under-recorded some of the greatest works are). A little list of some of the more prominent composers of the era (and a few suggestions):

Palestrina - Masses (he wrote many, and the quality is quite uniform, making it not worth collecting too many initially), motets (ditto)
Byrd - Masses for 3, 4 and 5 voices (it's interesting to compare these to Palestrina's - rather different, and more spare in style)
Victoria - Requiem
Dufay - Masses (IIRC most of the motets are quite early works)
Lassus - Most of the (huge amount of surviving) sacred choral music by him seems to be fascinating
Tallis - Lamentations of Jeremiah. Many riches to be found in his Latin motets
Binchois - Chansons (there's a very nice Virgin Veritas disc of these, coupled with Lescurel)
Gesualdo - Madrigals
Josquin - His entire work is strong, including masses, motets and chansons
Ockeghem - Masses and Requiem

Deliberately looking for discs with many different composers on is also a good way to familiarise - there are many of these pick 'n' mix type CDs available. Generally the real "meat" of the genre lays in the motets (and chansons, lieder, madrigals, etc, all slightly varying forms), with masses fewer in number depending on the composers. Lassus and Palestrina have many dozens surviving, Byrd only three.

Edit: super budget collections are rare in this repertoire, but two notable ones are this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Palestrina-Masses-Giovanni/dp/B000058USL/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1195328909&sr=1-1), and this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jordi-Savall-Music-Europe-1650/dp/B00064X2YG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1195328917&sr=1-1).
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: beer on November 17, 2007, 03:18:48 PM
Dont miss out on Cristobal de Morales (Missa Si bona suscepimus, Officium Defunctorum)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mark on November 17, 2007, 03:39:38 PM
Put simply, Corey, try just about anything from Naxos' MASSIVE early music series. I've listed a fairly comprehensive selection below (with catalogue numbers), though this isn't everything that's available: I can see on my shelves a further four or five discs from this series which aren't featured below. I've highlighted in red the titles I own:

Adorate Deum / Gregorian Chant from the Proper of the Mass 8.550711
AGRICOLA: Fortuna desperata 8.553840
A-la-mi-re Manuscripts (The): Flemish Polyphonic Treasures 8.554744  
ALFONSO X: Cantigas de Santa Maria 8.553133
Ambrosian Chant 8.553502
ARIOSTI: 6 Cantatas / LOCATELLI: Trio Sonata in E minor / VIVALDI: Trio Sonata in D major 8.557573
At the Sign of the Crumhorn: Flemish Songs and Dance Music 8.554425
BANCHIERI: Il Zabaione Musicale 8.553785
BENEVOLO: Missa Azzolina / Magnificat / Dixit Dominus 8.553636
Black Madonna 8.554256
BYRD / TALLIS: Masses 8.553239
BYRD: Consort and Keyboard Music / Songs and Anthems 8.550604
BYRD: Masses for Four and Five Voices 8.550574  
CABEZON: Tientos y Glosados 8.554836
CAMPION: Lute Songs 8.553380
Cancionero Musical de Palacio: Music of the Spanish Court 8.553536
Carmina Burana 8.554837
CAVALIERI: Rappresentatione di Anima e di Corpo 8.554096-97
CHARPENTIER: Motets / Litanies a la Vierge 8.554453
CHARPENTIER: Noels and Christmas Motets 8.554514
Chominciamento di gioia: Virtuoso Dance Music 8.553131
Codex Faenza: Instrumental Music of the Early 15th Century 8.553618
DALL'AQUILA / da CREMA: Ricercars / Intabulations / Dances 8.550778
DOWLAND: Consort Music and Songs 8.553326
DOWLAND: Flow My Tears and Other Lute Songs 8.553381
DUFAY: Chansons 8.553458
DUFAY: Missa L' homme arme 8.553087  
Early Music (The Glory of) 8.554064
Early Venetian Lute Music 8.553694
Elizabethan Songs and Consort Music 8.554284
English Madrigals and Songs 8.553088  
French Chansons 8.550880  
FRESCOBALDI: Fantasie, Book 1 / Ricercari / Canzoni Francesi 8.553547-48
GABRIELI: Music for Brass, Vol. 1 8.553609
GABRIELI: Music for Brass, Vol. 2 8.553873
GESUALDO: Sacred Music for Five Voices (Complete) 8.550742  
GIBBONS: Choral and Organ Music 8.553130
GIBBONS: Consort and Keyboard Music / Songs and Anthems 8.550603
Gregorian Chant for Good Friday 8.550952
HILDEGARD VON BINGEN: Heavenly Revelations 8.550998  
HOLBORNE / ROBINSON: Pavans and Galliards 8.553874
HUME: Captain Humes Poeticall Musicke, Vol. 1 8.554126
HUME: Captain Humes Poeticall Musicke, Vol. 2 8.554127
Introduction to Early Music (An) 8.551203
JENKINS: All in a Garden Green 8.550687
JOHNSON: Lute Music 8.550776
JOSQUIN: Missa L'homme arme / Ave Maria / Absalon, fili mi 8.553428
LA RUE: Mass of the Seven Sorrows of the Blessed Virgin / Missa Pascale 8.554656
LA RUE: Magnificats (Complete) / 3 Salve Reginas 8.557896-97
Lamentations (Oxford Camerata) 8.550572  
Lamenti Barocchi, Vol. 1 8.553318
Lamenti Barocchi, Vol. 2 8.553319
Lamenti Barocchi, Vol. 3 8.553320
LASSUS: Lagrime di San Pietro 8.553311
LASSUS: Masses for Five Voices / Infelix ego 8.550842  
LAWES: Consort Music for Viols, Lutes and Theorbos 8.550601
LEONIN / PEROTIN: Sacred Music from Notre-Dame Cathedral 8.557340  
Let Voices Resound: Songs from Piae Cantiones 8.553578
LOBO, D. / CARDOSO: Portuguese Requiem Masses 8.550682  
MACHAUT: Messe de Nostre Dame (La) / Le Voir Dit 8.553833  
Medieval Carols 8.550751
MILAN / NARVAEZ: Music for Vihuela 8.553523
MILANO: Fantasias, Ricercars and Duets 8.550774
MONTEVERDI: Ballo Delle Ingrate / Combattimento di Tancredi e Clorinda 8.553322
MONTEVERDI: Canzonette 8.553316
MONTEVERDI: Madrigals, Book 1 (Il Primo Libro de Madrigali, 1587) and Secular Manuscript Works 8.555307
MONTEVERDI: Madrigals, Book 2 (Il Secondo Libri de' Madrigali, 1590) 8.555308
MONTEVERDI: Madrigals, Book 3 (Il Terzo Libro de' Madrigali, 1592) 8.555309
MONTEVERDI: Orfeo (L') 8.554094-95
MONTEVERDI: Scherzi Musicali a Tre Voci 8.553317
MONTEVERDI: Vespers of the Blessed Virgin 8.550662-63
Music of the Italian Renaissance 8.550615
Music of the Spanish Renaissance 8.550614
Music of the Troubadours 8.554257
OBRECHT: Missa Caput / Salve Regina 8.553210  
OCKEGHEM: Missa L'homme arme / JOSQUIN: Memor esto verbi tui 8.554297
OCKEGHEM: Requiem / Missa Prolationum 8.554260
Oh Flanders Free: Music of the Flemish Renaissance 8.554516
On the Way to Bethlehem: Music of the Medieval Pilgrim 8.553132
PAISIBLE: 6 Setts of Aires 8.555045
PALESTRINA / LASSUS: Masses 8.550836
PALESTRINA: Missa L'homme arme / CAVAZZONI: Ricercari 8.553315  
PALESTRINA: Missa Papae Marcelli 8.550573  
PALESTRINA: Missa Papae Marcelli / ALLEGRI: Miserere 8.553238
PALESTRINA: Missa Sine Nomine / Missa L'Homme Arme / Motets 8.553314
Paschale Mysterium: Gregorian Chant for Easter 8.553697
PERTI: Lamentations / Liturgy for Good Friday 8.553321
PHILIPS: Cantiones Sacrae / Quinis Vocibus 8.555056
Piae Cantiones: Latin Song in Medieval Finland 8.554180
Portuguese Polyphony 8.553310  
PRAETORIUS: Dances from Terpsichore 8.553865
Psaumes de la Reforme 8.553025
Renaissance Masterpieces 8.550843  
Royal Songbook: Spanish Music from the Time of Columbus 8.553325
Salve Festa Dies: Gregorian Chant for Seasons of the Year 8.550712
SCHUTZ: Christmas Story / Cantiones Sacrae 8.553514
SCHUTZ: Psalmen Davids 8.553044
Sephardic Romances: Traditional Jewish Music from Spain 8.553617
TALLIS: Mass for Four Voices / Motets 8.550576  
THE ITALIAN DRAMATIC LAMENT 8.557538
TOMKINS / GIBBONS / BYRD: Consort and Keyboard Music 8.553241
TOMKINS: Choral and Organ Works 8.553794
TOMKINS: Consort Music for Viols and Voices 8.550602
Tugend und Untugend: German Music from the Time of Luther 8.553352
TYE: Missa Euge Bone / MUNDY: Magnificat 8.550937  
Under the Greenwood Tree 8.553442
VECCHI: Amfiparnaso (L') 8.553312
VICTORIA / LOBO / LASSUS: Masses 8.553240
VICTORIA: Masses 8.550575  
WEELKES: Anthems 8.553209
WILLAERT: Missa Christus resurgens / Magnificat / Ave Maria 8.553211
World of Early Music 8.554770-71
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Heather Harrison on November 17, 2007, 05:54:34 PM
It is hard to know where to begin.  There is so much out there.  When I first got into Renaissance music (around 1990), I bought whatever I could find because there wasn't a lot around.  From about the mid-1990's, availability became a lot better and many excellent new recordings appeared.  You would probably do well following the recommendations others have given here.  I'll add a few more.

The Naxos early music series, which has been mentioned, is a good inexpensive way to explore Renaissance music; there are a number of good releases out there.  I haven't seen many of them in stores, but they are easy to get on the web.  Check out sound samples and see what you like.

Also, I have thought of a particular CD that I find to be a great example of late Renaissance/early Baroque vocal music.  Praetorius:  Polyhymnia Caduceatrix & Panegyrica.  La Capella Ducale; Musica Fiata.  This CD is out of print, but used copies usually seem to be available.  The music is gorgeous, and the performance is great.  I can't figure out why this is out of print.  Amazon has sound samples if you want to check it out.  If this one is a pain to get, other CDs of the vocal music of Praetorius are certainly worth checking out.

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/19/25/fcba793509a00dcd353f3110._AA240_.L.jpg)

If you check this out and like the style, you might also want to look for music by Giovanni Gabrieli; his music is richly complex and beautiful.

If you want to check out Renaissance/early Baroque music of a more folksy style, there is a lot of music from the British Isles that is enjoyable.  One of my favorite groups that performs this style is the Baltimore Consort; they released a number of CDs for Dorian in the 1990's.  This is the popular music of the day; it is fairly straightforward, and a lot of fun.  Since Dorian went under, a lot of their CDs are now out of print, but used copies are readily available.  Some are still in print; it seems that someone is trying to resurrect the Dorian label, so hopefully their many excellent early music CDs will return to the marketplace.  Incidentally, while I was looking, I discovered CDs by the Baltimore Consort that I don't have yet, including a new one that just came out.  I might just have to order them.

Heather
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: hornteacher on November 17, 2007, 07:21:53 PM
Mentioned in Mark's list is PRAETORIUS: Dances from Terpsichore.  This is a marvellous collection of several hundred short instrumental dance selections that are great for listening to the various instruments of the time (shawm, crumhorn, sackbut, etc).
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Lethevich on November 18, 2007, 05:04:42 AM
Quote from: Heather Harrison on November 17, 2007, 05:54:34 PM
If you want to check out Renaissance/early Baroque music of a more folksy style, there is a lot of music from the British Isles that is enjoyable.  One of my favorite groups that performs this style is the Baltimore Consort; they released a number of CDs for Dorian in the 1990's.  This is the popular music of the day; it is fairly straightforward, and a lot of fun.  Since Dorian went under, a lot of their CDs are now out of print, but used copies are readily available.  Some are still in print; it seems that someone is trying to resurrect the Dorian label, so hopefully their many excellent early music CDs will return to the marketplace.  Incidentally, while I was looking, I discovered CDs by the Baltimore Consort that I don't have yet, including a new one that just came out.  I might just have to order them.

Discs like those are some of my favourites - the music is inventive and in a variety of forms, it's like a fun potpourri. A particularly cheap and decent one is this twofer:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31QMN737N1L._AA180_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Streets-Theatres-London-Musicians-Swanne/dp/B0007DHQ6G/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1195394578&sr=1-6)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Kullervo on November 18, 2007, 05:21:35 AM
Well, perhaps needless to say, I've added a lot of stuff to my ever-growing wishlist. :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Heather Harrison on November 18, 2007, 06:45:07 AM
Quote from: Lethe on November 18, 2007, 05:04:42 AM
Discs like those are some of my favourites - the music is inventive and in a variety of forms, it's like a fun potpourri. A particularly cheap and decent one is this twofer:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31QMN737N1L._AA180_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Streets-Theatres-London-Musicians-Swanne/dp/B0007DHQ6G/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1195394578&sr=1-6)

I have that one, and it is very good.  This group (Musicians of Swanne Alley) has other good recordings too.

Heather
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on December 30, 2007, 01:38:59 AM
A friend loaned this to me, it's absolutely beautifull!  :)

This recording seems very good, are there any others to consider?

(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/msiart/large/0000443/0000443590.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: jochanaan on January 03, 2008, 08:40:25 PM
I can imagine it's good, Que.  I know only one piece by Tomas Luis de Victoria, "O Magnum Mysterium," but that one is so beautiful I would be interested in any other music by him. :D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 03, 2008, 09:02:44 PM
Quote from: jochanaan on January 03, 2008, 08:40:25 PM
I can imagine it's good, Que.  I know only one piece by Tomas Luis de Victoria, "O Magnum Mysterium," but that one is so beautiful I would be interested in any other music by him. :D

The main contender to the McCreesh recording seems to be David Hill (Hyperion).
He uses smaller forces and boy sopranos instead of counter-tenors/sopranists.

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/d2/90/74c190b809a07c5a865d6110.L.jpg)

Hope somebody would like to comment on these! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: FideLeo on January 04, 2008, 12:56:04 AM
Quote from: Que on January 03, 2008, 09:02:44 PM
The main contender to the McCreesh recording seems to be David Hill (Hyperion).
He uses smaller forces and boy sopranos instead of counter-tenors/sopranists.

Smaller forces?  I am not sure that is true.  After all, McCreesh uses only 3-5 voices
for each part apart from the plainchants.  I have the Hill recording which is VERY
reverberantly recorded (the Westminster Cathedral sound!).  It may sound just
perfect for the work though, so dark and sensual it almost feels unreal.   
Indeed there is an overall declining and decaying atmosphere that truly befits
Victoria's Requiem, which has been argued to represent the end of the centuries-old
Franco-Flemish polyphonic tradition in church music.

I have an interesting Victoria recording "Et Jesum" featuring the outstanding Spanish
countertenor singer Carlos Mena (Harmonia mundi).  Following contemporary
examples, Mena sings arrangements of Victoria motets and mass movements in which
the top line remains vocal but all other parts have been redone in a tablature style for
a vihuela solo plus, in some pieces, echoes from a most magical sounding cornetto. 
The results are remarkably similar to English lute songs from around the same time
but perhaps even more hauntingly "cantabile" in character.

Angus dei from Missa O magnum mysterium (Carlos Mena, vocal; Juan Carlos Rivera, vihuela da mano)  (http://www.mediafire.com/?bbxcy992m1j)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 04, 2008, 12:18:21 PM
Quote from: fl.traverso on January 04, 2008, 12:56:04 AM
Smaller forces?  I am not sure that is true.  After all, McCreesh uses only 3-5 voices
for each part apart from the plainchants. 

Then one of the comments I read is erroneous - thanks for your helpful comments!  :)

QuoteI have an interesting Victoria recording "Et Jesum" featuring the outstanding Spanish
countertenor singer Carlos Mena (Harmonia mundi).  Following contemporary
examples, Mena sings arrangements of Victoria motets and mass movements in which
the top line remains vocal but all other parts have been redone in a tablature style for
a vihuela solo plus, in some pieces, echoes from a most magical sounding cornetto. 
The results are remarkably similar to English lute songs from around the same time
but perhaps even more hauntingly "cantabile" in character.

Angus dei from Missa O magnum mysterium (Carlos Mena, vocal; Juan Carlos Rivera, vihuela da mano)  (http://www.mediafire.com/?bbxcy992m1j)

And another thanks for the sample - sounds very nice indeed. :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 30, 2008, 02:42:52 AM
Please, need some fresh input on Renaissance music!

After Victoria and Escobar, I was wondering if this might be a good idea:

(http://www.abella.de/cover/P8424562214026_1.jpg)

Is it? Any comments on the recording, any alternatives for this recording or suggestions on other Spanish (Iberian) music from the Renaissance?

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: FideLeo on March 30, 2008, 03:02:56 AM
Quote from: Que on March 30, 2008, 02:42:52 AM
Please, need some fresh input on Renaissance music!

After Victoria and Escobar, I was wondering if this might be a good idea:

(http://www.abella.de/cover/P8424562214026_1.jpg)

Is it? Any comments on the recording, any alternatives for this recording or suggestions on other Spanish (Iberian) music form the Reniassance?

Q

Sticking with sacred polyphony, there is the Portuguese also:

http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/hmu1543.htm
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on March 30, 2008, 03:07:40 AM
Quote from: Que on March 30, 2008, 02:42:52 AM
Please, need some fresh input on Renaissance music!

After Victoria and Escobar, I was wondering if this might be a good idea:

(http://www.abella.de/cover/P8424562214026_1.jpg)

Is it? Any comments on the recording, any alternatives for this recording or suggestions on other Spanish (Iberian) music form the Reniassance?

Q
Yes it is. And the recordings of Morales by the same forces are also very recommendable. As are this:

(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/AVSA9814.jpg)

Lots of different stuff here, the Morales extracts are stunning.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 30, 2008, 08:11:03 AM
Quote from: erato on March 30, 2008, 03:07:40 AM
Yes it is. And the recordings of Morales by the same forces are also very recommendable. As are this:

(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/AVSA9814.jpg)

Lots of different stuff here, the Morales extracts are stunning.

Quote from: fl.traverso on March 30, 2008, 03:02:56 AM
Sticking with sacred polyphony, there is the Portuguese also:

http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/hmu1543.htm

Great, thanks guys! :) That site is a valuable source of information on Early Music, though I sometimes get lost in it! :D
From the list of Portuguese Renaissance composers Manuel Cardoso (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Cardoso) seems worth checking out.
And so does Christóbal Morales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crist%C3%B3bal_de_Morales).

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Lethevich on March 30, 2008, 01:07:15 PM
I have a soft spot for Juan Vásquez - his Agenda Defunctorum is a big collection of various pieces (a bit like Monteverdi's Vespers), and are all on a very high level. I don't think that the following disc is complete, but beggers can't be choosers, and it sounds great :)

(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/270/272910.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Agenda-DeFunctorum-Vasquez/dp/B000025Q3B/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1206911172&sr=1-2)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on April 05, 2008, 12:04:51 AM
Thanks Lethe, for your recommendation. :)

In my quest for Early Music I wondered about Giovanni da Palestrina - any recommendations?

How is this Brilliant set?

(http://www.selections.com/images/products/picture1zoom/BX558.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Lethevich on April 05, 2008, 03:04:18 AM
Quote from: Que on April 05, 2008, 12:04:51 AM
How is this Brilliant set?

(http://www.selections.com/images/products/picture1zoom/BX558.jpg)

Very good, although can sound a little unpolished compared to performances I tend to prefer (the type that would make most people on this forum projectile vomit), such as the disc below. The individual lines are clearer in the PCA recordings and the effect is less blended than "traditional" performances, there is also a spontaneous and involved feel to the music. Sound quality is rather good, and the booklets are almost worthless just like many Brilliant issues.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519488DE0NL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Palestrina-Missa-Ecca-ego-Johannes/dp/B00001QGRY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1207392504&sr=8-1)

This disc is so sumptuous and bang on perfect that I am sure it would bore many due to its lack of "notable features"/interesting performance decisions, but it sounds simply gorgeous to me. IMO going down this route with Palestrina in particular is effective due to his general lack of dissonance and already "perfected" music with nothing approaching a rough edge - accentuating that can produce amazingly beautiful results. A little aloof, yeah, but that's how I'd imagine angels to be anyway :P

(Sorry about the slightly crappy descriptions, I find it a little difficult to describe early music.)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on April 11, 2008, 10:00:37 PM
Thanks, Lethe. I have noted that Palestrina box Brilliant.
I think I'm into "unpolished" performances... :D
It's a pity about the lack of liner notes with Brilliant, saw the same recordings (originally on ASV) on Regis - but of corse more expensive, and even a CD less....

(http://www.selections.com/images/products/picture1zoom/C100.JPG)

Anyone else with some Palestrina recommendations?  :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: FideLeo on April 19, 2008, 05:00:34 AM
Quote from: Que on April 19, 2008, 03:29:36 AM
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/79/1009079.jpg)

Got a 10/10 on ClassicstodayFrance (http://www.classicstodayfrance.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=2544).
Anyone heard it? Does anyone know this ensemble? :)


Pedro Memesdorf is a very fine recorder player and Mala punica (pomergranates) is his ensemble.  I don't see anything particularly "dark" in this music (Codex Faenza) though, other than the pitch black background in the cover graphic (of what looks like the gilt pinnacles of a rood screen - Italian Gothic style).
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Kullervo on April 19, 2008, 05:24:42 AM
 
Quote from: articleIt is thus all the more scandalous as more no volume of their discography is currently available, that they are the recordings published at Arcana, Erato or Harmonized Mundi, when certain poor discs but more salesmen, them, are regularly republished.

Haha
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on April 19, 2008, 12:22:05 PM
Quote from: Que on April 19, 2008, 03:29:36 AM
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/79/1009079.jpg)

Got a 10/10 on ClassicstodayFrance (http://www.classicstodayfrance.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=2544).
Anyone heard it? Does anyone know this ensemble? :)


Inspired by que I listened to this, which was in my listening queue, to day.

Very pure and beautiful singing, the undulating diminutions from the instruments lending the relative static singing momentum and life, certainly a special effect. It is difficult to tell, where knowledge ends and conjecture or artistic freedom takes over, but the sounding result is striking and convincing, and this is what matters in this repertoire.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on April 27, 2008, 12:05:48 AM
Anyone familiar with Fransico Guerrero's secular output on three discs on the Spanish Enchiriadis (http://www.enchiriadis.com/index.htm) label? :)
A good listing of that label HERE (http://www.diverdi.com/tienda/listado.aspx?Type=R&cr=&se=95&es=0&so=0&n=False).

(http://www.diverdi.com/files/ag/16643/EN-2014_B.jpg) (http://www.diverdi.com/files/ag/9194/2018_b.jpg) (http://www.diverdi.com/files/ag/36666/EN-2023_B.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on April 30, 2008, 01:50:38 AM
Another specialist Spanish label I've just came across, is the label of the Capella de Ministrers (http://www.capelladeministrers.com/) (CDM) with conductor Carles Magraner. Samples on their site indicate they are a group to reckon with. Discs are available HERE (http://www.diverdi.com/tienda/listado.aspx?Type=R&cr=&se=107&es=0&so=0&n=False).

Anyone familiar with this recording of Victoria's Requiem?

(http://discplus.ch/login/1547894/shop/upload/33934.jpg)

A very interesting review of this recording HERE (http://wwww.mundoclasico.com/critica/vercritica.aspx?tipo=D&id=e478e200-d084-441b-a802-f9e7bb121a1e).

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on April 30, 2008, 02:01:23 AM
Quote from: Que on April 30, 2008, 01:50:38 AM
Another specialist Spanish label I've just came across, is the label of the Capella de Ministers (http://www.capelladeministrers.com/) with conductor Carles Magraner. Samples on their site indicate they are a group to reckon with. Discs are available HERE (http://www.diverdi.com/tienda/listado.aspx?Type=R&cr=&se=107&es=0&so=0&n=False).

Anyone familiar with this recording of Victoria's Requiem?

(http://discplus.ch/login/1547894/shop/upload/33934.jpg)
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.capelladeministrers.com/DOCUMENTOS_E/AGNUSDEIACDM%200615.MP3[/mp3]

A very interesting review of this recording HERE (http://wwww.mundoclasico.com/critica/vercritica.aspx?tipo=D&id=e478e200-d084-441b-a802-f9e7bb121a1e).

Q

Looks and sounds very promising, so I will order a few of them.
Thanks for the link.
How on earth do you find such obscure places? ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: FideLeo on May 02, 2008, 09:28:31 AM
Quote from: Que on April 30, 2008, 01:50:38 AM


A very interesting review of this recording HERE (http://wwww.mundoclasico.com/critica/vercritica.aspx?tipo=D&id=e478e200-d084-441b-a802-f9e7bb121a1e).



Hmm. Just like what Rene Jacobs used to do in Monteverdi.  It may sound more interesting to our ears,
but it is also true that that approach really hasn't had many new converts (among musicians) over the
years.   Reason?  We don't really know how these were performed in terms of instrumentation details.
BTW, McCreesh's name is a notable omission among the Brit musicians mentioned by this reviewer, for
reasons that may not be so difficult to figure out....  ;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on May 02, 2008, 09:32:03 AM
So... Magraner's guess is as good as anyone's?  ::)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: FideLeo on May 02, 2008, 09:38:16 AM
Quote from: Que on May 02, 2008, 09:32:03 AM
So... Magraner's guess is as good as anyone's?  ::)

Q

When there is a dearth of hard data to back one up, I guess it's fair to say so.  No?  True, Magraner is a scholar in the field, but McCreesh, Parrott, etc. probably weren't making wild guesses either when they chose only to use a bass dulcian (the Spanish word is bajon I think) to double the bass voice(s). 

Bear in mind that reviews were written to sell more (HIP or not) recordings. The sound snippet from the Victoria didn't really grab me either, but your mileage may vary.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on May 02, 2008, 09:53:06 AM
Quote from: fl.traverso on May 02, 2008, 09:38:16 AM
The sound snippet from the Victoria didn't really grab me either, but your mileage may vary.

Well, I would have to hear more to make a fair judgement. But I feel that McGreesh hits the right spot for me.  :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: bassio on May 04, 2008, 09:41:37 AM
Quote from: Que on April 30, 2008, 01:50:38 AM
Another specialist Spanish label I've just came across, is the label of the Capella de Ministrers (http://www.capelladeministrers.com/) (CDM) with conductor Carles Magraner. Samples on their site indicate they are a group to reckon with. Discs are available HERE (http://www.diverdi.com/tienda/listado.aspx?Type=R&cr=&se=107&es=0&so=0&n=False).

Anyone familiar with this recording of Victoria's Requiem?

(http://discplus.ch/login/1547894/shop/upload/33934.jpg)
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.capelladeministrers.com/DOCUMENTOS_E/AGNUSDEIACDM%200615.MP3[/mp3]

A very interesting review of this recording HERE (http://wwww.mundoclasico.com/critica/vercritica.aspx?tipo=D&id=e478e200-d084-441b-a802-f9e7bb121a1e).

Q

Never went into this era/type of music. It sounds very ... English!  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: bassio on May 04, 2008, 09:45:16 AM
On mentioning Jacobs flutotransverso -
I was quite interested in hearing Jacobs' as a conductor and his accounts on Monteverdi/other music, what do you think?
hmmm, will open a new thread for this sometime later .. we don't want to hijack this thread


By the way: On my last post - I assume of course that the composer is English, correct? Pretty evident in the mp3 sample.  0:)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on May 04, 2008, 11:03:30 PM
Quote from: bassio on May 04, 2008, 09:45:16 AM

By the way: On my last post - I assume of course that the composer is English, correct? Pretty evident in the mp3 sample.  0:)
Tomas Luis de Victoria - do you really think that sounds English? Spains perhaps greatest Renaissance composer..........
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: bassio on May 10, 2008, 04:20:27 AM
So Victoria is Spanish then  :)  .. Calm down folks, its not like I have mistaken the queen [pun intended  :P]

But really, from only listening to the sample, the 'style' gives a feel of "English" whatever that means; even the reviewer you linked to seems to agree with me  ;)

By the way, which choice is more sensible to approach when someone is a beginner to the Renaissance period:
Josquin or Palestrina or Dufay or Gesualdo?

Suggestions welcome.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on May 10, 2008, 04:30:43 AM
Quote from: bassio on May 10, 2008, 04:20:27 AM
So Victoria is Spanish then  :)  .. Calm down folks, its not like I have mistaken the queen [pun intended  :P]

But really, from only listening to the sample, the 'style' gives a feel of "English" whatever that means; even the reviewer you linked to seems to agree with me  ;)

By the way, which choice is more sensible to approach when someone is a beginner to the Renaissance period:
Josquin or Palestrina or Dufay or Gesualdo?

Suggestions welcome.
Josquin is as different from Palestrina as Brahms is from late Stravinsky. The same with Dufay vs Gesualdo. So this is difficult to answer as it has lots to do with taste and listening experience/preferences.

My advice is to listen to a crosselection and explore what you like.

Dufay, Josquin and Palestrina are cornerstones of different periods and styles.

If you like Dufay, continue with Binchois, Busnois and other late 15thcentury composers
If you like Josauin, you're really spoilt with Obrecht, Isaac, de la Rue and tons of early to mid 16th century  Northerners..
If you like Palestrina; Victoria, Morales, parts of Lassus etc.

Madrigals are really a subject all to itself, besides Gesualdo, explore Marenzio and Monteverdi (first)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on September 20, 2008, 02:10:11 AM
I have decided to revive this thread, and broadening the scope beyond pointers for "beginners" to general discussion on recordings of music from the Renaissance. Moved and renamed the thread accordingly - Corey, hope you don't mind! :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51XJ5dgbXfL._SS500_.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/6055136?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist)
                       click picture for more samples

Got this a while ago, since I was much charmed by other Iberian Renaissance music by this ensemble under Michael Noone: Guerrero's Requiem and Morales' Assumption Mass (see also previous posts). And the success story continues, as far as I'm concerned.

The music contains the Missa Super Flumina Babylonis with added plainsongs, sung by the Spanish Schola Antigua, and hymns. In early music I feel the approach of the performers as well as the way of recording is crucial. And performance and recording are drop dead gorgeous: transparent, beautifully phrased, natural. Guerrero's polyphony is show cased for everybody to admire. Naturally, in comparison with the Requiem, this music has a more lighter touch. I find Guerrero's music strikingly colourful - a major attraction.

Maybe not as essential as the Requiem, but for those who want more Guerrero after that: this is the way to go. Recommended. :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: 71 dB on September 20, 2008, 02:31:35 AM
I did sample Dufay, Josquin Desprez, Obrecht and Ockegheim recently. It's all very similar, not much difference between composers. The church restricted artistical freedom so that's not surprising. The music is ok but not very interesting considering longer listening sessions. I wish they used instruments in church music to add color.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on September 20, 2008, 02:41:41 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on September 20, 2008, 02:31:35 AM
I did sample Dufay, Josquin Desprez, Obrecht and Ockegheim recently. It's all very similar, not much difference between composers.


No it's not, and if you had any understanding of counterpoint as you claim in another thread you wouldn't claim it to be. Their contrapunctal technique is very different (as any textbook can tell you, eg in use of small motivic cells vs use of long themes, independence between parts, canonic technique etc etc in absurdum), their attidude towards dissonance differs, cadenctial tecniques vary considerably, relationship between words and music (the way that individual words and parts of words are related to individual notes etc) are very different, etc, etc.

When you've listened to this music constantly for some decades you can pass judgement. That you feel that they SOUND similar to you (if that is what you meant) just tells me that you haven't really LISTENED to this music at all. Which is okay by me as long as you don't say that these composers are similar.   
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: 71 dB on September 20, 2008, 02:52:49 AM
Quote from: erato on September 20, 2008, 02:41:41 AM
No it's not, and if you had any understanding of counterpoint as you claim in another thread you wouldn't claim it to be. Their contrapunctal technique is very different (as any textbook can tell you, eg in use of small motivic cells vs use of long themes, independence between parts, canonic technique etc etc in absurdum), their attidude towards dissonance differs, cadenctial tecniques vary considerably, relationship between words and music (the way that individual words and parts of words are related to individual notes etc) are very different, etc, etc.

When you've listened to this music constantly for some decades you can pass judgement. That you feel that they SOUND similar to you (if that is what you meant) just tells me that you haven't really LISTENED to this music at all. Which is okay by me as long as you don't say that these composers are similar.   

You got me wrong. Of course they have differences as you stated but they don't sound as different as the composers of later centuries. I admit I am not an expert of renaissance music. I have never claimed to be. I am more a baroque nut.

Btw, I think Obrecht sounded most interesting...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: maswot on September 20, 2008, 05:29:42 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on September 20, 2008, 02:31:35 AM
I did sample Dufay, Josquin Desprez, Obrecht and Ockegheim recently. It's all very similar, not much difference between composers. The church restricted artistical freedom so that's not surprising. The music is ok but not very interesting considering longer listening sessions. I wish they used instruments in church music to add color.



If you're interested in early music that stretches the ear, in terms of unexpected harmonies and intervals, then in addition to Gesualdo previously mentioned, you should check out Richafort's Requiem. There's a fine recording of it by Paul Huelgas. These early composers were breaking new ground and figuring out what worked and what didn't, so they were not at all artistically repressed, at least not in the sense that we think of it today. The church was then, and to a certain extent always has been, a place of vastly divergent opinions on just about everything, with one faction in favor during one period and a rival faction gaining the upper hand in the next. There was a lot of creative thinking going on back then, and the mere fact that these composers were starting to be known by name is itself an indication of the rise of the individual during this period. A lot of these early composers were remarkably inventive, and in some of them you can find things that did not reappear again until Bartok. -- Marc


PS. For anyone looking for a great introduction to music from this period, check out the Tallis Scholar's recording of the Allegri Miserere.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on September 20, 2008, 05:34:32 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on September 20, 2008, 02:52:49 AM
You got me wrong.
Okay, I accept that. But what I want to take issue with is the expectation that these differences will be obvious for an occasional listener unaccustomed to the idiom. For someone totally unaccustomed to classical music Elgar and Racmaninov/ff might sound quite similar, too.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on September 20, 2008, 05:35:36 AM
Quote from: maswot on September 20, 2008, 05:29:42 AM
There's a fine recording of it by Paul Huelgas.



Paul van Nevel/Huelgas Ensemble. Very sumptuous recording, indeed.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Kullervo on September 20, 2008, 05:39:19 AM
Quote from: maswot on September 20, 2008, 05:29:42 AM
If you're interested in early music that stretches the ear, in terms of unexpected harmonies and intervals, then in addition to Gesualdo previously mentioned, you should check out Richafort's Requiem. There's a fine recording of it by Paul Huelgas. These early composers were breaking new ground and figuring out what worked and what didn't, so they were not at all artistically repressed, at least not in the sense that we think of it today. The church was then, and to a certain extent always has been, a place of vastly divergent opinions on just about everything, with one faction in favor during one period and a rival faction gaining the upper hand in the next. There was a lot of creative thinking going on back then, and the mere fact that these composers were starting to be known by name is itself an indication of the rise of the individual during this period. A lot of these early composers were remarkably inventive, and in some of them you can find things that did not reappear again until Bartok. -- Marc


PS. For anyone looking for a great introduction to music from this period, check out the Tallis Scholar's recording of the Allegri Miserere.



Yes, but Gesualdo et. al. came more than a hundred years after Dufay, Ockeghem, et. al. It's the same as the difference between Bach and Mendelssohn (well, that's a bit hyperbolic, but you get my point).
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: 71 dB on September 20, 2008, 07:23:38 AM
Quote from: erato on September 20, 2008, 05:34:32 AM
Okay, I accept that. But what I want to take issue with is the expectation that these differences will be obvious for an occasional listener unaccustomed to the idiom. For someone totally unaccustomed to classical music Elgar and Racmaninov/ff might sound quite similar, too.

I don't listen to much renaissance music so I am somewhat unaccustomed. That's why it all sounds similar to me, okay?  ::)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on September 20, 2008, 07:36:50 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on September 20, 2008, 07:23:38 AM
I don't listen to much renaissance music so I am somewhat unaccustomed. That's why it all sounds similar to me, okay?  ::)

Just my point. That's an subjective impression and noone can argue with that. But what you actually said was that they WERE similar:

Quote from: 71 dB on September 20, 2008, 02:31:35 AM
It's all very similar, not much difference between composers.


which is an objective judgment, which I found wrong. I have no problem with them SOUNDING similar to you (which they don't to me).
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: mozartsneighbor on September 20, 2008, 08:19:46 AM
I think for someone who is just starting off with Renaissance music one of the best options would probably be the "Best of the Renaissance" Tallis Scholars double-disk set on Philips.
Some cds of music of this period I have acquired recently and greatly enjoyed are:
(http://static.musicload.de/cov/m/230/5/cover/01/57/0000000000015711/0730099431026_7ec0caa5ba32e6f785796b1d82b8a5f7.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FPK57JCPL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: mozartsneighbor on September 20, 2008, 08:23:21 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411K1AS0ABL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

In the secular music category this to me is stunning. Have had this set for years and return to it very frequently.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on September 20, 2008, 08:29:03 AM
Quote from: mozartsneighbor on September 20, 2008, 08:23:21 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411K1AS0ABL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

In the secular music category this to me is stunning. Have had this set for years and return to it very frequently.
Same for me.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Lethevich on September 20, 2008, 09:17:58 AM
Quote from: mozartsneighbor on September 20, 2008, 08:19:46 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FPK57JCPL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I love that label, so many quality works, and they're generally available for very little on Amazon Marketplace, etc.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: 71 dB on September 20, 2008, 09:27:01 AM
Quote from: erato on September 20, 2008, 07:36:50 AM
Just my point. That's an subjective impression and noone can argue with that. But what you actually said was that they WERE similar:

which is an objective judgment, which I found wrong. I have no problem with them SOUNDING similar to you (which they don't to me).

Similar is not identical. Two things can have differencies AND similaries at the same time. Renaissance church music is based heavily on contrapuntal composing techniques. In that sense it all is "similar". The different variations of contrapuntal technique bring differencies. With renaissance music the ratio of similarities and differences is greater than that of say music of romantic period. I didn't mean my statement to be objective. When do you people learn that what I say is my subjective opinion and nothing more?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: 71 dB on September 20, 2008, 09:31:08 AM
Quote from: mozartsneighbor on September 20, 2008, 08:23:21 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411K1AS0ABL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

In the secular music category this to me is stunning. Have had this set for years and return to it very frequently.

Too bad it's expensive 5 CD box set, little overkill for someone who just wants to try out this composer...  :P
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: 71 dB on September 20, 2008, 09:32:56 AM
Quote from: maswot on September 20, 2008, 05:29:42 AM
you should check out Richafort's Requiem.

oh, thanks for the hint
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: mozartsneighbor on September 20, 2008, 09:52:25 AM
Quote from: 71 dB on September 20, 2008, 09:31:08 AM
Too bad it's expensive 5 CD box set, little overkill for someone who just wants to try out this composer...  :P

There's a cd on Naxos with Dufay chansons. I have that as well -- maybe not quite as good as the complete set on Oiseau-Lyre, but still quite well performed and enjoyable. So if the 5 cd set is overkill for you, begin with the Naxos cd and see how you like it.
(http://shop.castleclassics.co.uk/acatalog/553458.gif)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on September 20, 2008, 10:10:46 AM
Most Early Music Recordings on Naxos (at least of the good selection I have heard) are good value. Best value of all however, were the 5 (or 6) CD selection of Ockeghem masses (not quite complete alas) on ASV that used to be cheaply available.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Kullervo on September 20, 2008, 10:53:44 AM
Quote from: erato on September 20, 2008, 10:10:46 AM
Most Early Music Recordings on Naxos (at least of the good selection I have heard) are good value. Best value of all however, were the 5 (or 6) CD selection of Ockeghem masses (not quite complete alas) on ASV that used to be cheaply available.

Is this the same thing?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61DVQTT7AFL._SS500_.jpg)

I got it when it was around $20, but now it's going for more than twice that amount. You can still download it fairly cheaply.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on September 20, 2008, 12:31:38 PM
Quote from: Corey on September 20, 2008, 10:53:44 AM
Is this the same thing?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61DVQTT7AFL._SS500_.jpg)

I got it when it was around $20, but now it's going for more than twice that amount. You can still download it fairly cheaply.
Yes it is. About what I paid.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on September 22, 2008, 01:07:56 AM
Quote from: The Ardent Pelleastre on September 21, 2008, 06:00:51 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51M-trswUUL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Josquin  -  Missa Hercules Dux Ferrariae

The finest Mass out of the entire Renaissance IMO....  Finally something with real depth.

Quote from: erato on September 22, 2008, 12:12:02 AM
I do agree thart Josquin wrote some of the most interesting masses of the renaissance, and his compositional language is not as "strange" to us as the composers of a preceding generation in that more attention is paid to harmonic content while not sacrificing the superb counterpoint. The Sei Voci recordings are now collected in a cheap 6 CD box which I consider nearly mandatory if you have any interest in the period at all. However my favorite mass (while not in any way claiming it superior to others) is the Beate Virgine.

Found it! (Mouthwatering.... ;D) Thanks for the recommendations. :)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0822186089064.jpg)

Josquin Desprez: Missa l'homme armé sexti toni; Missa l'homme armé supervoces musicales; Missa Hercules Dux Ferrariae; Missa Gaudeamus; Messe Ave Maris Stella; Missa De Beata Virgine; Missa Pange Lingua; Deus, In Nomine Tuo Salvum Me FAC; Inviolata, Integra, Et Casta Es, Maria; Miserere Mei, Deus; Motets A La Vierge; Motets.

Martini: Perfunde Coelie Rore

Dupre: Chi A Martelo Dio Gl'Il Toglia


Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on September 27, 2008, 12:45:38 AM
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0794881854523.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/7541635?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist)
click picture for more samples

Out of curiosity, wanting to expand in medieval music, I recently got this and it seems I have stumbled upon a very distinctive, if not controversial recording! :)
The issue at hand will become clear just to listen to the samples. Pérès approaches this work in a special way in terms of ornamentation and pitch, with slurring notes, modulation with "micro-intervals". The effect is by some described as Orientalism, but it reminds me of Byzantine/Orthodox singing. I'm a novice in Medieval Music and Machaut but the issue (and controversy) seems very adequately described in the editorial and customer reviews on Amazon.com: HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Guillaume-Machaut-Ensemble-Organum-Marcel/dp/B0000007AY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1222503721&sr=1-2).

In the end my feelings are that this approach maybe takes a moment to get used to - and maybe some never never will, as Corey noted earlier: opinions are much divided on this - but for me the result is convincing and rewarding. This is definitely something else... 8) Still, this work by Machaut is so beautiful and intriguing that I definitely will add another take to it, maybe by my favourite Ensemble Gilles Binchois (Cantus)? :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: mozartsneighbor on September 27, 2008, 08:57:27 AM
I have quite a few medieval music recordings, but for the last year or so haven't been in a mood for that kind of music. Don't ask me why -- my musical appetite works in strange cycles.
Maybe it's coming around to it again in the last month or so: have been listening to Hildegard von Bingen and have been getting acquainted with Machaut's motets. As quite a few people have mentioned, Machaut's motets are quite stunning. I have the Hilliard cd and I understand the version on the Zig-Zag label is very different, much more rough-edged and emotional. I may get that as well.
A cd of late Medieval music which is also quite interesting is this:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QZ0BHM9QL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on September 28, 2008, 01:12:37 AM
(http://multimedia.fnac.com/multimedia/images_produits/ZoomPE/7/2/0/8424562220027.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/6739229?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist)
Click picture for more samples

A real winner here!! :)
A 3CD-set with Victoria's polyphonic settings for the Holy Week - Palm Sunday and subsequent days before Easter. The music consists of 37 pieces and includes antiphones and verses in plainchant. I'm absolutely baffled by the quality of the music and the performances the vocal ensembles La Columbina & Schola Antiqua. Strongly recommended! :)

Q

A review from Fanfare:
This is the sixth comprehensive approach to Tomás Luis de Victoria's massive collection of music for Holy Week, published in 1585 as the composer was leaving Rome after 20 years there. The Officium Defunctorum of 1605, his final work, is the only rival work to be considered as his greatest masterpiece. But while we have had many sets of the 18 responsories for Tenebrae and almost as many sets of the nine lamentations, the most familiar elements of the Holy Week volume, the other pieces of this collection have been recorded more fitfully, and the two Passions (St. Matthew for Palm Sunday and St. John for Good Friday) have had the least attention of all.

Most recently, on Champeaux CSM 0001 (Jade C 332), recorded in 1991, Jean-Paul Gipon gave us the eight motets and a complete St. John Passion, the only set that presented the Improperia ("Popule meus") with all the chant verses and, like Silos, added cantillation, or simple chant tones, of the 18 lessons of the second and third nocturns. This time the Improperia are not as complete as Gipon's set (like Silos, this set includes only some of the chant verses), and both Passions are abridged. Uniquely among all these sets, we hear a chant antiphon and a versicle at the beginning of each of the nine nocturns, and a few other very familiar chant antiphons from the services. Cabré directs the polyphony, while Asensio directs the chant segments, using Roman books of 1586/87 and a 1515 book from Toledo for the two Spanish chants. Both have proved their expertise and scholarship in previous recordings of polyphony and chant, respectively.

The recording was made at San Miguel in Cuenca during three concerts of the Festival of Sacred Music in 2004. This makes it easier to understand why the two Passions, which consist of the crowd's exclamations, set to polyphony within the traditional cantillation of the Passion narrative, were abridged. Long stretches of cantillation that are not interrupted by the crowd were ripe for omission, but what was left still showed well enough how the polyphony fit into the narration. I would have liked the complete Improperia as Gipon alone gave us, but that was not done. Still, this superb set now ranks at the top of the competition. The vocal ensemble is preferable to the solo voices on Spanish Columbia, and their singing is superior to Gipon's group, the only other version on CD. Asensio directs the chant with attention to the variant version that was used at the time as well as to semiological interpretation, all done with an attractively unaffected style of singing. Cabré, who has sung in many early-music ensembles for years, is a capable director of the eight-voice ensemble (two of his recordings of Salazar's music with another ensemble have just appeared).

The sound captured in the former church is ideal, warm without being overly resonant. The presentation is attractive, a slipcase containing three thin jewel boxes and a 64- page booklet that includes two notes. Do not overlook this magnificent achievement.

J. F. Weber
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on September 28, 2008, 01:18:10 AM
Quote from: Que on September 28, 2008, 01:12:37 AM
Do not overlook this magnificent achievement.

I haven't.  ;D

Some of the first renaissance music to catch my attention was Victorias Lamentations for Easter, and I've since also heard some of it live. Of course I have this set.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: adamdavid80 on October 06, 2008, 07:35:18 AM
Thanks to Mozartsneighbor's recommendation, I've now got a Hildegard von Bingen CD featuring Barbara Thornton.  What an incredible voice and CD!

What other works are highlights featuring Thornton? 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on October 26, 2008, 02:27:47 AM
Quote from: Pére Malfait on October 24, 2008, 04:32:47 AM
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0794881854523.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/7541635?rk=classic&rsk=hitlist)

This is imo a fantastic recording, but caveat emptor - it will assuredly NOT be to everyone's taste. Pérès' ensemble heavily ornaments the vocal line with Byzantine-flavored melismas and microtonal intervals.  I find the results totally convincing and very exciting - this is my personal favorite recorded version of this early masterpiece.

Those were my sentiments as well. :)

Q

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: val on October 27, 2008, 02:18:01 AM
I love the set recorded by David Munrow with the Early Music Consort, with the title "Music of the Gothic Era". Among others it includes works from Leonin, Perotin and Vitry.

The recordings of the Studio der frühe Musik were also very good, dedicated to the Troubadours, Adam de la Halle, Wolkenstein, Machaut, but, with the exception of the last two, I cannot find them in CD.

The recording of Carmina Burana by the Clemencic Consort is very exciting.

The Cantigas of Santa Maria by Savall and Machaut's Messe de Notre Dame by the Hilliard are other great moments.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on December 15, 2008, 04:13:43 PM
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/ZZT081001.jpg)

Just heard excerpt of this on radio, and though my familiarity with the style is none I quite liked how it sounded. Went to put it in shopping basket and then noticed there are quite a few discs with Peres performing various pre-gregorian types of chant. Is anyone familiar with these discs, what would be the basic differences between them and which would be recommendable? Thanks in advance!

(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/HMA1951604.jpg) (http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/HMA1951218.jpg)
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/HMA1951295.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411EJQNQV8L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Corsican and Mozarabic chant discs seem to be out of print.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 26, 2009, 02:23:10 AM
Quote from: Que on September 22, 2008, 01:07:56 AM
Found it! (Mouthwatering.... ;D) Thanks for the recommendations. :)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0822186089064.jpg)

Got this a while ago and already commented a few times on the Listening thread.

But for just the record: a truly great composer in terrific, emotionally intense and non-smooth/lively performances. REVIEW (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2007/Feb07/Desprez_a_sei_voce_E8906.htm)
Must-have IMO. Thanks again for the posters on this thread for recommending it! :)



NOW: another request. This time on Paul van Nevel and the Huelgas Ensemble.

I got hold of an old-fashioned sampler disc. :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61CCAVBSSWL._SS500_.jpg)

Very enjoyable. On hearing excerpts of several discs the outstanding recording quality was particularly striking. Musically speaking I found of the CDs covered the excerpts of these discs the most appealing:

(http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drf700/f795/f79515k5s44.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61G1HZGNQBL._SS500_.jpg)(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/4c/59/cf96319f8da0c714f3fd6110.L.jpg)

Any comments or additional recommendations?
:) :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on February 17, 2009, 06:07:53 AM
Quote from: Mn Dave on February 17, 2009, 06:00:44 AM
;D

A thread to discuss Baroque music in general and that which preceded it. History, HIP, recommended recordings, composers, whatever...

(I did a quick search and could not find a thread specifically like this one. I'm sure if there is one, Que will duly rap my cyber-knuckles with his cyber-ruler.)

Yup, you are braver man than I am to start such a thread without going through our official GMG Baroque Gate Keeper, Dave, but I hope you success with this thread.  And do not let him push you around with takes such as "You know Dave, we do have a Northern High Altitude Italian Baroque Music Written in The First Two Weeks of March 1660" thread.   ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Todd on February 17, 2009, 06:12:46 AM
I always considered "early" music to be pre-Baroque.  And until recently I've tried very little.  But the stuff I've started listening to recently is very good.  John Dowland is excellent, William Byrd, too.  But so far, for me, Cristobal de Morales is the best I've found in early music.  Some amazing music that I need to explore more.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 17, 2009, 06:16:33 AM
Quote from: Todd on February 17, 2009, 06:12:46 AM
I always considered "early" music to be pre-Baroque.  And until recently I've tried very little.  But the stuff I've started listening to recently is very good.  John Dowland is excellent, William Byrd, too.  But so far, for me, Cristobal de Morales is the best I've found in early music.  Some amazing music that I need to explore more.

Thanks, Todd. I've been meaning to try some Byrd, mainly due to his association with Purcell, whom I enjoy. Dowland I haven't gotten around to yet. and Morales is a new name for me so I appreciate you dropping it here.

Any specific recordings we should look for from these composers?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Todd on February 17, 2009, 06:21:19 AM
Quote from: Mn Dave on February 17, 2009, 06:16:33 AMAny specific recordings we should look for from these composers?


I've covered some in my "new" music log, except for Byrd - I'm still winding my way through his complete keyboard set on Hyperion, which is quite good.  (I'm too lazy to look up the disc names on my own.)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on February 17, 2009, 06:25:23 AM
My recent enjoyment of early music has been Hildegard Von Bingen (1098-1179).  The three cds I have are all outstanding:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EVXe%2BDqTL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51N50mNXOxL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/613ozT1BtDL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on February 17, 2009, 06:40:36 AM
Quote from: Mn Dave on February 17, 2009, 06:00:44 AM

A thread to discuss Baroque music in general and that which preceded it.

Good luck with this thread. A couple years ago I started some threads on some early composers (Schein, Schütz, Zelenka) and got only a handful of replies. (Most of those on the Schütz thread were about how to put the ü in his name)

There are still big gaps in my knowledge, but after exploring a lot of music from this time, I've come to the conclusion that the late Renaissance-Baroque period produced more good composers and interesting music than any other, except for the 20th century. And it wasn't that long ago I was rather dismissive of it. Just goes to show that you shouldn't dismiss what you don't know.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 17, 2009, 07:03:58 AM
Thanks for the recording recommendations. I will add them to my wish-list.

Another thing to think about is your favorite early music artists and groups. For instance, as you may have noticed lately, I've been going on about His Majesty's Sagbutts and Cornetts and have been acquiring their recordings regardless of composer.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on February 17, 2009, 07:08:08 AM
What are bird stops, Don?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 17, 2009, 07:09:02 AM
[From Wiki, because I had to look the guy up.]

Heinrich Scheidemann (ca. 1595 – 1663) was a German organist and composer. He was the best-known composer for the organ in north Germany in the early to mid-17th century, and was an important forerunner of Dieterich Buxtehude and J.S. Bach.

Life
He was born in Wöhrden in Holstein. His father was an organist in both Wöhrden and Hamburg, and probably Scheidemann received some early instruction from him. Scheidemann studied with Sweelinck in Amsterdam from 1611 to 1614, and evidently was one of his favorite pupils, since Sweelinck dedicated a canon to him, prior to Scheidemann's return to Germany. By 1629, and possibly earlier, Scheidemann was in Hamburg as organist at the Catharinenkirche, a position which he held for more than thirty years, until his death in Hamburg in early 1663 during an outbreak of the plague.

Music and influence
Scheidemann was renowned as an organist and composer, as evidenced by the wide distribution of his works; more organ music by Scheidemann survives than by any other composer of the time. Unlike the other early Baroque German composers, such as Praetorius, Schütz, Scheidt, and Schein, each of whom wrote in most of the current genres and styles, Scheidemann wrote almost entirely organ music. A few songs survive, as well as some harpsichord pieces, but they are dwarfed by the dozens of organ pieces, many in multiple movements.

Scheidemann's lasting contribution to the organ literature, and to Baroque music in general, was in his Lutheran chorale settings, which were of three general types: cantus firmus chorale arrangements, which were an early type of chorale prelude; "monodic" chorale arrangements, which imitated the current style of monody—a vocal solo over basso continuo—but for solo organ; and elaborate chorale fantasias, which were a new invention, founded on the keyboard style of Sweelinck but using the full resources of the developing German Baroque organ. In addition to his chorale arrangements, he also wrote important arrangements of the Magnificat, which are not only in multiple parts but are in cyclic form towards liturgical use in alternation with the choir during the socalled Vespers, a technique in multiple-movement musical construction which was not to return with vigor until the 19th century. Among his students were Johann Adam Reincken, his successor at the St. Catharine Church in Hamburg and Dieterich Buxtehude.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: jwinter on February 17, 2009, 07:13:18 AM
I have always been enamoured of the polyphonic motets of Lassus, after studying Sherlock Holmes' famed monograph on the subject (ref. The Adventure of the Bruce Partington Plans).  I have this recording:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-NABlFa-L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on February 17, 2009, 07:16:45 AM
Quote from: jwinter on February 17, 2009, 07:13:18 AM
I have always been enamoured of the polyphonic motets of Lassus, after studying Sherlock Holmes' famed monograph on the subject (ref. The Adventure of the Bruce Partington Plans).  I have this recording:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-NABlFa-L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

It's posts like this that demand that you are one of the top five "hippest cats" that post here JW.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 17, 2009, 07:16:55 AM
Quote from: jwinter on February 17, 2009, 07:13:18 AM
I have always been enamoured of the polyphonic motets of Lassus, after studying Sherlock Holmes' famed monograph on the subject (ref. The Adventure of the Bruce Partington Plans).  I have this recording:


You get points from me for mentioning early music and detective fiction in the same post.  ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bulldog on February 17, 2009, 07:22:42 AM
Quote from: Bogey on February 17, 2009, 07:08:08 AM
What are bird stops, Don?

Stops allow wind pressure to go through specific organ pipes.  In the case of a bird stop, a fluttering sound is heard.

Hopefully, there are a few organists on the board who can provide some detail.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: jwinter on February 17, 2009, 07:32:32 AM
Quote from: Mn Dave on February 17, 2009, 07:16:55 AM
You get points from me for mentioning early music and detective fiction in the same post.  ;D

Hey for a fellow Lew Archer fan, I can do no less.  Though I tend to be more into the Holmes/Nero Wolfe school than hard-boiled myself.  I've loved Parker's Spenser books for years though, and have recently tried (and liked) some Michael Connelly, so go figure.

Anyway, so as not to derail such an innocent young thread, I do actually own that Lassus disc.  I also occasionally like Gregorian chant, and have a few other discs of medieval music which I like (click pics for link)...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/219AMHPQ4JL._SL500_AA130_.jpg)
(http://www.amazon.com/Llibre-Vermell-De-Montserrat/dp/B0000034B8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1234888095&sr=1-4) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510JCN2FPNL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Loves-Illusion-Music-Montpellier-Codex-Century/dp/B0000007E5/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1234888233&sr=1-10)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 17, 2009, 07:36:36 AM
If anyone can recommend some madrigal recordings, that would be swell too.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on February 17, 2009, 08:17:47 AM
Quote from: jwinter on February 17, 2009, 07:32:32 AM

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510JCN2FPNL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Loves-Illusion-Music-Montpellier-Codex-Century/dp/B0000007E5/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1234888233&sr=1-10)


I have this one on the shelf JW.  The Anonymous 4 would have been incredible to see live.  Plus the liner notes that come with these discs are history lesson within themselves.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on February 17, 2009, 08:44:42 AM
Quote from: jwinter on February 17, 2009, 07:13:18 AM
I have always been enamoured of the polyphonic motets of Lassus, after studying Sherlock Holmes' famed monograph on the subject (ref. The Adventure of the Bruce Partington Plans).  I have this recording:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-NABlFa-L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
The Missa Susanne un jour is a really wonderful example of Lassus' melodiousness, and the idea of basing a mass on un chanson of that subject is really hilarious. No wonder he had to write those wonderful penitential psalms towards the end of his life. Fine disc!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Père Malfait on February 17, 2009, 10:33:00 AM
The birdsong stop (Vogelgesang, Nacthigall, Rossingol, Usignolo, et al.) is usually formed by several small pipes suspended upside down in a container of glycerin water (see picture). This arrangement makes a chirping, warbling sound that can, in the right acoustic (e.g. 1686 Schnitger organ in Norden), sound very realistic.

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b45/advocatus_diaboli/Vogelgesang.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bulldog on February 17, 2009, 11:36:50 AM
Quote from: Pére Malfait on February 17, 2009, 10:33:00 AM
The birdsong stop (Vogelgesang, Nacthigall, Rossingol, Usignolo, et al.) is usually formed by several small pipes suspended upside down in a container of glycerin water (see picture). This arrangement makes a chirping, warbling sound that can, in the right acoustic (e.g. 1686 Schnitger organ in Norden), sound very realistic.

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b45/advocatus_diaboli/Vogelgesang.jpg)

Looks just like the plumbing system in my old home. ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 17, 2009, 11:39:16 AM
I'm curious to hear it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 17, 2009, 12:18:44 PM
Thanks, George. I might have that second one. I'll have to check. :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on February 17, 2009, 04:17:51 PM
Quote from: George on February 17, 2009, 12:01:02 PM
I recommend this (and any Tallis CD, for that matter.) It looks like one of those silly comp CDs, but it's all complete works, by many of the great composers of the period:

(http://images.bluebeat.com/an/1/8/5/0/1/l10581.jpg)



Good call.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: bwv 1080 on February 17, 2009, 06:25:28 PM
I would  highly recommend Trio Medaeval's grammy-nominated disc of medieval Scandanavian tunes

Also anything by Ensemble PAN who has made several recordings of the Ars Subtilior
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 17, 2009, 07:36:20 PM
Quote from: Bogey on February 17, 2009, 08:17:47 AM
I have this one on the shelf JW.  The Anonymous 4 would have been incredible to see live.  Plus the liner notes that come with these discs are history lesson within themselves.

I have this set too.  Excellent singing.  Whenever MDT runs sales on Harmonia Mundi again this year, I will load up on the remaining A4 recordings I do not already have ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 17, 2009, 07:37:56 PM
Quote from: George on February 17, 2009, 12:01:02 PM
I recommend this (and any Tallis CD, for that matter.) It looks like one of those silly comp CDs, but it's all complete works, by many of the great composers of the period:

(http://images.bluebeat.com/an/1/8/5/0/1/l10581.jpg)


This one is also lovely:

(http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51iKafoK3HL._SS500_.jpg)

George,  I have been under the impression you do not like anything vocal/choral?   ???
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 17, 2009, 07:44:36 PM
I like works by Ockeghem and have this CD.  I plan to load up on this composer...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NK1N1XGPL._SS400_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 17, 2009, 07:48:57 PM
Here is another nice recording of early music I recently acquired ...


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YZE9922AL._SS400_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: bwv 1080 on February 17, 2009, 07:58:58 PM
(http://www.iclassics.com/images/local/300/3282E.jpg)

(http://a6.vox.com/6a00c225256b2c604a00d09e5a9636be2b-320pi)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31SY0AGJTZL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: bwv 1080 on February 17, 2009, 08:15:41 PM
Quote from: George on February 17, 2009, 12:01:02 PM
I recommend this (and any Tallis CD, for that matter.) It looks like one of those silly comp CDs, but it's all complete works, by many of the great composers of the period:

(http://images.bluebeat.com/an/1/8/5/0/1/l10581.jpg)


Yes, that is the first disc of Renaissance music anyone should get
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on February 18, 2009, 04:54:10 AM
Quote from: Mn Dave on February 17, 2009, 07:12:44 AM
Maybe, for purposes of this thread, we can say pre-1700. If everyone agrees.

Check out these beauties, Dave:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4123ATY7HRL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)(http://www.bluntinstrument.org.uk/biber/discography/1983/MaierBIG-LP.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51J9SWQX4TL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5102MJCZ43L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4199RVYCKXL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/413FNPK3HEL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410THSB21VL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515XB1nqUZL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

The last three are post-1700 but not too much.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on February 18, 2009, 04:58:11 AM
I guess I'm an early music nut. I actuallay have ALL these disc, the Maier Rosary sonatas excepted.

Caldara should be exploited in depth by the record companies, a major Viennese baroque composer (along with Conti, and Vivaldi, who ended his career, broke, in Vienna).
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on February 18, 2009, 05:05:17 AM
Quote from: erato on February 18, 2009, 04:58:11 AM
I guess I'm an early music nut. I actuallay have ALL these disc, the Maier Rosary sonatas excepted.

Great!

Quote from: erato on February 18, 2009, 04:58:11 AMCaldara should be exploited in depth by the record companies, a major Viennese baroque composer (along with Conti, and Vivaldi, who ended his career, broke, in Vienna).

Actually, he was quite cosmopolitan and Viennese only by adoption: born in Venice, he spent his life in Mantua and Barcelona before settling in Vienna. :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 18, 2009, 05:07:17 AM
Oh, my goodness. Where to begin...?  ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on February 18, 2009, 05:10:41 AM
Quote from: Mn Dave on February 18, 2009, 05:07:17 AM
Oh, my goodness. Where to begin...?  ;D

Pick any. :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 18, 2009, 05:21:39 AM
I just ordered three of them. Now, I wait.

I noticed lots were OOP at Amazon and had hefty prices through the marketplace sellers. I assume early music discs don't stay available too long.

I'm listening to this right now, and I'd recommend it to anyone:

(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/CDUCoverArt/Music/Large/superd_1114840.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on February 18, 2009, 05:38:57 AM
Anyone wanna suggest a good Frescobaldi keyboard CD?

Someone who really puts the fresco in Frescobaldi?  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: mozartsneighbor on February 18, 2009, 05:44:01 AM
Excellent recommendations so far -- already have 90% of the cds recommended so far, though!
I would like to add Robert Fayrfax, an excellent polyphonic composer that I discovered a few months ago: glorious music.
I would start with this:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61GC7VEQQZL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on February 18, 2009, 05:56:31 AM
Be aware there's a cheap triple of Fayrfax available, might be a better solution than to go for individuale discs.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/earlymusic.php (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/earlymusic.php)  have an early music sale.

The triple is available at 19 Euro, and the singles at 7.50. This goes for their essential Ockeghem series as well, and the superb Obrecht -Missa Sub Tuum Praesidium.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: mozartsneighbor on February 18, 2009, 05:59:28 AM
Quote from: erato on February 18, 2009, 05:56:31 AM
Be aware there's a cheap triple of Fayrfax available, might be a better solution than to go for individuale discs.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/earlymusic.php (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/earlymusic.php)have an early music sale.

The triple is available at 19 Euro, and the singles at 7.50. This goes for their essential Ockeghem series as well, and the superb Obrecht -Missa Sub Tuum Praesidium.



Many thanks -- I already have the Fayrfax triple. Now, the Ockeghem I don't have... thanks for the tip.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on February 18, 2009, 06:31:31 AM
Quote from: Spitvalve on February 18, 2009, 05:38:57 AM
Anyone wanna suggest a good Frescobaldi keyboard CD?

Someone who really puts the fresco in Frescobaldi?  :)

I would suggest one of these three harpsichord CDs, preferably containing Toccatas:

Enrico Baiano  on Symphonia

Scott Ross     on Virgin

Pierre Hantaï    on Astreé
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on February 18, 2009, 11:15:55 AM
Needed: a complete recording of J.H. Schein's Banchetto Musicale, one of the earliest significant collections of instrumental music (1617).

A number of recordings contain a few of the 20 suites - Savall recorded several; there are also some on the famous old DG Archiv "Renaissance Dance Music" LP - but I have never seen a complete recording of the whole thing. Some enterprising label should undertake to bring all of this austere yet vivacious music to us in a unified package.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on February 18, 2009, 11:31:14 AM
Quote from: Spitvalve on February 18, 2009, 11:15:55 AM
this austere yet vivacious music

Makes me very, very curious...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on February 18, 2009, 11:37:42 AM
Quote from: Florestan on February 18, 2009, 11:31:14 AM
Makes me very, very curious...

Here's what made me curious: this quote about Schein by Stephen Schwarz, which I found at Jim Moskowitz's Unknown Composers page:

"A respectable choral composer, but a wonderful instrumental composer, pre-Bach. There's an almost Romantic depth of introspection and melancholy in the music. Try the suites for mixed instruments."

By which I assume he means Banchetto Musicale, since I don't think Schein wrote any other instrumental suites.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 18, 2009, 02:23:12 PM
Quote from: Florestan on February 18, 2009, 11:31:14 AM
Makes me very, very curious...

Me too.

Am I right in thinking that a lot of early music is more vocal-oriented than later music?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bulldog on February 18, 2009, 02:51:38 PM
Quote from: Mn Dave on February 18, 2009, 02:23:12 PM
Me too.

Am I right in thinking that a lot of early music is more vocal-oriented than later music?

It also seems that most folks prefer early music vocal to pure instrumental. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 18, 2009, 04:28:27 PM
Hello Dave - comin' in late to your thread - I'm a BIG FAN of  pre-Baroque music (so will not offer suggestions from the Baroque era, arguably about 1600-1750; of course both dates can be 'stretched or shrunked'!  ;) ;D).

At the present, I probably have nearly 200 CDs that fit into this 'Medieval-Renaissance' musical period; much of this music can be divided into 'secular' and 'sacred' categories, and also into pure vocal (a cappella) vs. instrumental or a combination) - I love it all!

So, hard for me to just start out w/ recommendations, but I've reviewed the previous posts (and already have much listed); so maybe a couple of compilations may be useful to those just getting started, so will post two collections from the recordings of David Munrow and the Early Music Consort of London - these are a great intro to this music (not sure if these are now OOP?):

The Art of Courtly Love - French secular music of 1300-1475; main composers include Guillaume de Machaut, Gilles Binchois, & Guillaume Dufay - these guys are some of the GREATS from this period!

The Art of the Netherlands - obviously more Northern European works (mainly 15th & 16th centuries); multiple and important composers of the time, i.e. Josquin Desprez, Johannes Ockeghem, Jacob Obrecht, et al - again, some of the greats from that era & geography.

Now, I have many additional discs of each of these composers, so will see 'how' this thread develops - would be interesting to form some kind of 'outline' to present this vast material!  Dave  :)

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/476401381_r4rXW-S.jpg)  (http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/476401388_gbxPi-S.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: KevinP on February 18, 2009, 05:12:55 PM
Quote from: Florestan on February 18, 2009, 04:54:10 AM

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51J9SWQX4TL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Love that disc. Listened to it yesterday. But this one is even better:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4110KKM34PL._SS500_.jpg)

The requiem sounds almost romantic--and Savall isn't one to romanticise early composers.

The Battalia sound downright postmodern (well, one movement anyway).
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 18, 2009, 07:08:43 PM
Thanks for the recommendations, guys. I appreciate the effort, and I'm sure the other early music fans do too. I guess this little thread has taken off, at least for the time being. Not sure how long it will stay aloft but it will be fun while it lasts.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 18, 2009, 07:11:57 PM
Quote from: Mn Dave on February 18, 2009, 02:23:12 PM
Me too.

Am I right in thinking that a lot of early music is more vocal-oriented than later music?

Indeed, the instrumentation is also quite sparse, if that is the right term for it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 18, 2009, 07:19:47 PM
I'm curious, what's some of the earliest music available on disc?

Also, does anyone know any good websites on this subject?

Thank you.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 18, 2009, 07:23:45 PM
Quote from: Mn Dave on February 18, 2009, 07:19:47 PM
I'm curious, what's some of the earliest music available on disc?

Also, does anyone know any good websites on this subject?

Thank you.

Music of Hildegard of Bingen has to be among the earliest of the early music that was recorded. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildegard_of_Bingen
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 18, 2009, 07:28:42 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on February 18, 2009, 07:23:45 PM
Music of Hildegard of Bingen has to be among the earliest of the early music that was recorded. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildegard_of_Bingen

Of course I've heard of her but I don't know her history so I'll read that link shortly, Coop.

I was messing around on Amazon and ran across the Unicorn Ensemble on Naxos. Anyone have their discs? Comments? Thank you.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on February 18, 2009, 09:34:01 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on February 18, 2009, 07:11:57 PM
Indeed, the instrumentation is also quite sparse, if that is the right term for it.

A better word is "non-existent." Most early instrumental music does not specify instrumentation, so you can arrange it any way you want.

Supposedly the first piece that specifies instrumentation is Gabrieli's Sonata pian' e forte (1597).
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: sul G on February 19, 2009, 12:01:36 AM
Quote from: Mn Dave on February 18, 2009, 07:19:47 PM
I'm curious, what's some of the earliest music available on disc?

Well, there are discs which attempt to reconstruct ancient Greek music. I only have this one:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YM26S40VL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

but sticking 'ancient greek' into Amazon revealed a couple more:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519FD914XNL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21C6V32FTZL._SL500_AA130_.jpg)

And then there are recordings of Byzantine chant, which dates back to the 400s IIRC. Stick 'keyrouz' into amazon to find a couple:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410SAXSG7EL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (I have this one)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31exKkubeFL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (I don't have this - it might be the same disc repackaged)

I'm not sure, however, is this is precisely what you meant...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: sul G on February 19, 2009, 12:23:38 AM
My single favourite medieval disc, however, from quite a number, is this one:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61R9MF9GKNL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Beg, borrow or steal a copy! Josquin has already hinted that music of this period - the late 14th century - is well worth focusing upon. Those few decades, in fact, provide the pre-Baroque music I return to most, again and again. This is the period of the 'ars subtilior', aka the 14th century avant garde, in which musical complexity and experimentation, especially in the area of rhythm, reached a level it would not return to for hundreds of years. The furthest extreme, perhaps, is Matteo da Perugia's Le greygnour bien, which is available on this disc in possibly the best of the four versions I have of it. Others worth trying in this area are:

(http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/amg/classical_albums/cov200/cl000/l023/l02351gga3d.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/616VTNNF9AL._SL500_AA240_.gif)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41gt-IRkT3L._SL500_AA240_.jpg) 

though if you want to hear Le greygnour in an absolutely bonkers, superfast performance evidently meant to emphasize its oddness, try this:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41RJ05KZ5XL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (it's three albums reissued on two discs, and though it's old - early early music, if you like - it's charming and provides a good overview of the three areas it covers: Machaut, the aforementioned 14th century music, and Dufay)

I'm sure Josquin can provide some more recommendations.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: canninator on February 19, 2009, 12:54:38 AM
Quote from: Mn Dave on February 18, 2009, 07:28:42 PM
Of course I've heard of her but I don't know her history so I'll read that link shortly, Coop.

I was messing around on Amazon and ran across the Unicorn Ensemble on Naxos. Anyone have their discs? Comments? Thank you.

I have the Cantigas de Santa Maria. Unicorn Ensemble use their own period instruments to recreate the instrumentation with the Cantigas. Of course, the Cantigas do not have instrumental scoring but do have (as I recall from the facsimile) miniatures of the kinds of instruments used. There are some instrumental pieces on this recording and I presume that is taken from the vocal score. Overall, reasonably accomplished but nothing to rush out for.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: sul G on February 19, 2009, 01:03:50 AM
Yes, I have that disc too, and agree that it's pleasant but nothing spectacular. I haven't returned to it often, in any case. But I also have some of the ensemble's other Naxos discs - Cominciamento da gioia and On the Way to Bethlehem - and have found them much more invigorating, enjoyable stuff. Naxos also have the Ensemble Accentus (the two work together on one disc) and I think that their disc of Sephardic music is a real winner. It was a disc which really turned me on to much of this music, in any case. I much prefer its infectious delights to, for instance, the similar twofer of Savall/Figueras/Herperion XX, even if the latter is more lavishly packaged and presented as a luxury item.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: canninator on February 19, 2009, 01:05:38 AM
Quote from: Spitvalve on February 18, 2009, 09:34:01 PM
A better word is "non-existent." Most early instrumental music does not specify instrumentation, so you can arrange it any way you want.

Supposedly the first piece that specifies instrumentation is Gabrieli's Sonata pian' e forte (1597).

Do you mean specified instrumentation with a vocal score? Of course there are many printed instrumental sources that predate this for lute (from 1507 I think) and keyboard e.g. Frottole intabulate da sonare organi (Antico 1517). Even earlier there are vocal scores that unambiguously imply instrumental accompaniment e.g. Adieu ces bons vins de Lanny (Dufay ?1426) where the score starts 4 bars (modern mensuration) before the text.

The comment was made that "early" music was predominantly vocal as opposed to instrumental. Although it is true to say that what comes down to us in printed sources is vocal scoring it is best not to forget the huge importance of instrumental music during this period. There are very few sources for how instruments were taught and even fewer examples of pedagogical music but illuminated miniatures in a variety of texts (even antiphons as I recall) demonstrate (at best) or suggest (at worst) that instrumental accompaniment was integral to music of the period. The instruments could improvise over the vocal line or even take the role of tenor or contratenor in a three part vocal score.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on February 19, 2009, 01:27:48 AM
Quote from: canninator on February 19, 2009, 01:05:38 AM
Do you mean specified instrumentation with a vocal score? Of course there are many printed instrumental sources that predate this for lute (from 1507 I think) and keyboard e.g. Frottole intabulate da sonare organi (Antico 1517). Even earlier there are vocal scores that unambiguously imply instrumental accompaniment e.g. Adieu ces bons vins de Lanny (Dufay ?1426) where the score starts 4 bars (modern mensuration) before the text.

I'm talking about multi-instrumental music, not vocal scores or single-instrument stuff like keyboard music.

In e.g. the instrumental compositions of composers like Schein, Scheidt, Praetorius, Gabrieli or the like, instrumentation is usually flexible. I've heard sometimes the same piece realized by all-brass ensemble, or all-viol ensemble, or a mix of different types of instruments. Composers generally didn't specify, although we can sometimes make assumptions from other known facts. For instance, it's known that the permanent ensemble of St. Mark's when Gabrieli was there consisted mainly of cornetts and sackbuts (early brass), so it's a fair assumption that Gabrieli had a brass-dominated ensemble in mind for his canzonas.

There are some pieces of that time, though, that do specify the instruments to be used. Sonata pian' e forte is one; another is Massaino's Canzona for 8 Trombones.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: canninator on February 19, 2009, 02:28:24 AM
Quote from: Spitvalve on February 19, 2009, 01:27:48 AM
I'm talking about multi-instrumental music, not vocal scores or single-instrument stuff like keyboard music.

In e.g. the instrumental compositions of composers like Schein, Scheidt, Praetorius, Gabrieli or the like, instrumentation is usually flexible. I've heard sometimes the same piece realized by all-brass ensemble, or all-viol ensemble, or a mix of different types of instruments. Composers generally didn't specify, although we can sometimes make assumptions from other known facts. For instance, it's known that the permanent ensemble of St. Mark's when Gabrieli was there consisted mainly of cornetts and sackbuts (early brass), so it's a fair assumption that Gabrieli had a brass-dominated ensemble in mind for his canzonas.

There are some pieces of that time, though, that do specify the instruments to be used. Sonata pian' e forte is one; another is Massaino's Canzona for 8 Trombones.

Okay, I see. I Know that "Instrumental Music Printed Before 1600" (Harvard University Press) is pretty much the standard source for this stuff but I don't have it to hand so can't comment further (not that I'm disagreeing with you but specifically lute ensembles-most notably duos-certainly predate 1597 if that counts).
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: bwv 1080 on February 19, 2009, 04:32:26 AM
Quote from: Spitvalve on February 18, 2009, 09:34:01 PM
A better word is "non-existent." Most early instrumental music does not specify instrumentation, so you can arrange it any way you want.

Supposedly the first piece that specifies instrumentation is Gabrieli's Sonata pian' e forte (1597).

There is a Vihuela literature from the earlier

El Maestro by Luis de Milán (1536)
Los seys libros del Delphin by Luis de Narváez (1538)
Tres Libros de Música by Alonso Mudarra (1546)
Silva de sirenas by Enríquez de Valderrábano (1547)
Libro de música de Vihuela by Diego Pisador (1552)
Orphénica Lyra by Miguel de Fuenllana (1554)
El Parnasso by Estevan Daça (1576).

http://www.youtube.com/v/iYOFviCC7DA
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: canninator on February 19, 2009, 05:13:50 AM
Quote from: bwv 1080 on February 19, 2009, 04:32:26 AM
There is a Vihuela literature from the earlier

El Maestro by Luis de Milán (1536)
Los seys libros del Delphin by Luis de Narváez (1538)
Tres Libros de Música by Alonso Mudarra (1546)
Silva de sirenas by Enríquez de Valderrábano (1547)
Libro de música de Vihuela by Diego Pisador (1552)
Orphénica Lyra by Miguel de Fuenllana (1554)
El Parnasso by Estevan Daça (1576).


Co-incidentally La Cancion del Emperador (actually a rearrangement of Mille Regrets by Josquin) is a piece I'm polishing up myself at the moment. I love the Vihuela repertoire and am really fortunate in that I have access to the Pujol editions of the Milan (both volumes) and the Narvaez, among others. Pisador, however, I find a bit dry and academic.

Anyone who wants to play through some of these can probably get them online for free or the best are available in a Pujol edited anthology "Hispanae Citharae Ars Viva" that includes Pisador-Pavana muy llana, Villanesca; Valderrabano-Soneto I & II; Milan-Fantasia del quarto tono, Fantasia de consonancias y redobles; Mudarra-Gallarda, Diferencias Conde Claros, Fantsia de Ludovico; Narvaez-Cancion del Emperador, Baxa de contrapunto, Diferencias Guardame las Vacas, and Tres diferencias por otra parte.

As for recordings, well Hopkinson Smith has done quite a lot of vihuela repertoire and is really the benchmark but I'll always have a soft spot for this

http://www.youtube.com/v/Upd8HJxYeb0

Superb!!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on February 19, 2009, 02:11:15 PM
What's with Gesualdo's 6th book of madrigals? I intended to ask here for recommendation but it seems there is only one recording available, and that rather recent looking one by ensemble I never heard of. Am I missing something?

(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/GLO5226.jpg)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 19, 2009, 05:45:11 PM
Quote from: Drasko on February 19, 2009, 02:11:15 PM
What's with Gesualdo's 6th book of madrigals? I intended to ask here for recommendation but it seems there is only one recording available, and that rather recent looking one by ensemble I never heard of. Am I missing something?

(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/GLO5226.jpg)

This might be why...Regarding that recording: "This release completes the hugely successful cycle of choral music by Gesualdo, the first project of this music to be completed in 40 years."

If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years?

I can find bits of book six compiled with others, but not a whole volume like you show. I checked for about 20 minutes at several online locations.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 19, 2009, 05:58:36 PM
Quote from: George on February 19, 2009, 05:53:10 PM
When will the membership cards be sent out, Dave? There's a Renaissance fair coming to town soon and I'd ike to use the card to get 20% on afternoon jousting.  ;D

Ah, Renaissance fairs, with the turkey legs, the juggling and the bad British accents.  ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 19, 2009, 06:43:33 PM
Some of the recent additions to my collection.  I expect to add 30-50 titles of early music (all pre-baroque) to my collection this year ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61hASgi1mSL._SS500_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NP242PFEL._SS400_.jpg)

Here are some older recordings that have been in my collection for a while.

I wonder that conductor Ratzinger may be related to Pope Benedict?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on February 20, 2009, 05:22:37 AM
Quote from: Mn Dave on February 19, 2009, 05:45:11 PM
This might be why...Regarding that recording: "This release completes the hugely successful cycle of choral music by Gesualdo, the first project of this music to be completed in 40 years."

If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years?

I can find bits of book six compiled with others, but not a whole volume like you show. I checked for about 20 minutes at several online locations.

I'm not the most knowledgable person here when it comes to madrigals, but I think that quote means that no one has recorded the complete cycle in last 40 years, not that it took them 40 years.

Anyhow, it really looks like that is only choice for complete 6th book (there are at least two choices per any other of books 1-5).
Glossa site claims La Venexiana is planning whole cycle, but their concert schedule for 2009 has no Gesualdo at all (Buxtehude and Monteverdi mostly) and that is usualy good hint for recording plans.
At least Les Arts Florissants/Christie Gesualdo disc with mixed selection is scheduled for re-release on Harmonia Mundi Gold series next month, was oop and fetching silly prices on amazon.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YAz6bRW4L._SL500_AA240_.jpg) 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 20, 2009, 05:26:37 AM
Quote from: Drasko on February 20, 2009, 05:22:37 AM
I'm not the most knowledgable person here when it comes to madrigals, but I think that quote means that no one has recorded the complete cycle in last 40 years, not that it took them 40 years.

Heh. That's what I meant.

"If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years [to record another]?"
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 20, 2009, 05:34:37 AM
Quote from: Drasko on February 20, 2009, 05:22:37 AM
At least Les Arts Florissants/Christie Gesualdo disc with mixed selection is scheduled for re-release on Harmonia Mundi Gold series next month, was oop and fetching silly prices on amazon.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YAz6bRW4L._SL500_AA240_.jpg) 


Great. I hate silly prices.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on February 20, 2009, 05:34:58 AM
Quote from: Mn Dave on February 20, 2009, 05:26:37 AM
Heh. That's what I meant.

"If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years [to record another]?"


Sorry. I thought you meant:

"If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years [to finish it]?"

My english comprehension isn't always up to much.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 20, 2009, 05:36:58 AM
Quote from: Drasko on February 20, 2009, 05:34:58 AM
Sorry. I thought you meant:

"If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years [to finish it]?"

My english comprehension isn't always up to much.

Mine neither. ;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 21, 2009, 04:36:33 AM
Quote from: Drasko on February 19, 2009, 02:11:15 PM
What's with Gesualdo's 6th book of madrigals? I intended to ask here for recommendation but it seems there is only one recording available, and that rather recent looking one by ensemble I never heard of. Am I missing something?

Here is one other: by the Quintetto Vocale Italiano on Rivo Alto. Old recordings (early '60s), and judging from this comment (http://www.entsharing.com/music/classical/carlo-gesualdo-madrigals-for-5-voices-books-1-to-5-1990/) not very HIP, not worthwhile.

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/e4/de/c6df729fd7a00660a74de010.L.jpg)

But note that La Venexiana is working on a cycle as well - Books IV & V issued:

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8424562209343.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8424562209350.jpg)

I have the recording of Book V: very impressive, catches the fascinating but disturbing quality of the music admirably.

Don't know the Kassiopeia Quintet, but it can't be bad - they're Dutch!  ;D ;)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 21, 2009, 04:52:09 AM
Quote from: Drasko on February 20, 2009, 05:34:58 AM
Sorry. I thought you meant:

"If it's so successful, why did it take them 40 years [to finish it]?"

My english comprehension isn't always up to much.

We should be happy that we can still find recordings of these works.  After all, these recordings do not exactly win any popularity contests ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 21, 2009, 04:13:21 PM
I bought this set a few months ago ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51uMaIq%2BExL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on February 22, 2009, 05:04:01 AM
Quote from: Que on February 21, 2009, 04:36:33 AM
Here is one other: by the Quintetto Vocale Italiano on Rivo Alto. Old recordings (early '60s), and judging from this comment (http://www.entsharing.com/music/classical/carlo-gesualdo-madrigals-for-5-voices-books-1-to-5-1990/) not very HIP, not worthwhile.

Thanks! I'll check it out anyhow.

QuoteBut note that La Venexiana is working on a cycle as well - Books IV & V issued:

Working perhaps, but the progress is snail like. Wasn't their Book V recorded something like 4-5 years ago?

QuoteDon't know the Kassiopeia Quintet, but it can't be bad - they're Dutch!  ;D ;)

Well, only 2/5 Dutch, but they do sound ok to my untrained ears. Maybe someone more versed in this type of music could provide better observation, since they offer few decent quality samples at their website.
http://www.kassiopeiaquintet.com/index.php?17 (http://www.kassiopeiaquintet.com/index.php?17)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 22, 2009, 05:18:42 AM
Quote from: Que on February 21, 2009, 11:36:04 PM
Would you care to make a comment on it? :)

Q

This John Dowland Collected Works is a box set of 12 CD's which were previously released from the lately 70's through the 80's.  I think the music is excellent and as always, Emma Kirkby provides some exquisite singing ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 22, 2009, 07:59:42 AM
http://www.youtube.com/v/uA_1b7IySkU
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: canninator on February 23, 2009, 12:50:12 AM
Quote from: Que on February 21, 2009, 11:36:04 PM
Would you care to make a comment on it? :)

Q

For what it's worth, Rooley is an excellent player but I would place him at the bottom of the pile of the crop of Dowland lute solo cycles. In my opinion the Jacob Lindberg (now available on Brilliant) is superlative and the Nigel North (Naxos) and Paul O'Dette (Harmonia Mundi) are also worth a crack.

The Lindberg in particular has a smoother rounder tone and the bass courses are used to much greater effect. Musically, Linderberg makes much greater use of dynamic contrast between contrapuntal and florid passages to scintillating effect. This effect is weaker in the Rooley and he also has the somewhat annoying (at least for me) habit of spreading his arpeggios really wide so the pulse of the music sounds wayward even if it is not played thus.

That leaves the problem of what to choose for lute and voice. The recent collaboration between Elizabeth Kenny (please, Elizabeth, can we have a Dowland lute cycle from you) and Mark Padmore (Tenor) on Hyperion is, to my ears, the best collection of lute songs. It's only one disc so the collection is small but all his number one hits are there plus an excellent recording of Britten's Nocturnal after Dowland played by Craig Ogden.

So go with Jacob Lindberg on Brilliant and Kenny/Padmore/Ogden on Hyperion for some songs and you can't go wrong.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 23, 2009, 04:22:19 AM
Quote from: canninator on February 23, 2009, 12:50:12 AM
In my opinion the Jacob Lindberg (now available on Brilliant) is superlative...

Thanks. Just ordered it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 23, 2009, 04:49:04 PM
Quote from: canninator on February 23, 2009, 12:50:12 AM
For what it's worth, Rooley is an excellent player but I would place him at the bottom of the pile of the crop of Dowland lute solo cycles.

I have to check to see if I have any recordings by Elizabeth Kenny.  But the most beautiful parts of this set are the solo pieces by Emma Kirkby and I am not convinced Kenny can top her ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: canninator on February 23, 2009, 11:59:12 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on February 23, 2009, 04:49:04 PM
I have to check to see if I have any recordings by Elizabeth Kenny.  But the most beautiful parts of this set are the solo pieces by Emma Kirkby and I am not convinced Kenny can top her ...

I have no problem with Emma Kirby's singing although I much prefer my Dowland with tenor or countertenor. Elizabeth Kenny is Professor of Lute at the Royal Academy not a singer.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on February 27, 2009, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Mn Dave on February 27, 2009, 11:24:28 AM

Yes, my tastes seem to be travelling backward through time.  8)  Chopin and earlier: that's pretty much me, lately.

Dave - LOL!  ;D  The Middle Ages/Renaissance have fascinated me for years, including the music - bought the book below a few years ago (got a used copy - Norton is the publisher and they always want so much $$!) - if interested, try a library borrow - an excellent book on the topic -  :D  Dave

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41R9DJ7G6YL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 27, 2009, 02:23:20 PM
Quote from: SonicMan on February 27, 2009, 01:32:03 PM
Dave - LOL!  ;D  The Middle Ages/Renaissance have fascinated me for years, including the music - bought the book below a few years ago (got a used copy - Norton is the publisher and they always want so much $$!) - if interested, try a library borrow - an excellent book on the topic -  :D  Dave

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41R9DJ7G6YL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg)

I'll look for it. Thanks much.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 27, 2009, 05:13:43 PM
Quote from: canninator on February 23, 2009, 11:59:12 PM
I have no problem with Emma Kirby's singing although I much prefer my Dowland with tenor or countertenor. Elizabeth Kenny is Professor of Lute at the Royal Academy not a singer.

Sorry, I must have confused her with Catherine Denley ...   ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on February 28, 2009, 11:28:06 AM
Ha! Wrong image.  ;D

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51x9QIv34JL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 28, 2009, 01:37:49 PM
Quote from: Mn Dave on February 28, 2009, 11:28:06 AM
Ha! Wrong image.  ;D

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51x9QIv34JL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I thought it was some Renaissance work in praise of Lucifer.  But then, it would have been awfully surprising that the composer had not been burned at the stake before he would have had to chance to publish his work ...   ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: canninator on March 02, 2009, 01:03:26 AM
Quote from: SonicMan on February 27, 2009, 01:32:03 PM
Dave - LOL!  ;D  The Middle Ages/Renaissance have fascinated me for years, including the music - bought the book below a few years ago (got a used copy - Norton is the publisher and they always want so much $$!) - if interested, try a library borrow - an excellent book on the topic -  :D  Dave

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41R9DJ7G6YL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg)

Yes, this is an excellent book. If you can, get the anthology to go alongside with plenty of excellent musical examples.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41F1B7TD45L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Also worth a look is the Howard Brown, not as heavy going

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71HVYJKX3YL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.gif)

If you are looking for something to function as both the ultimate guide to renaissance music and a doorstop then you can't do better than Gustave Reese

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5109GTSWHCL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg)

If your particular forte is instrumental music of the period then don't expect too much from any of these books, you then need to go to specialist texts.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dr. Dread on March 02, 2009, 03:35:26 PM
The Howard Brown sounds my speed.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on March 08, 2009, 05:16:58 AM
Quote from: Que on March 08, 2009, 05:08:59 AM
Since this is not the Listening thread, an additional comment would be welcome. :)

Q

It is serene and inspirational with excellent polyphony.  It is the second CD by the group The Cardinall's Musick I have had the chance to listen to.  The singing is great ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on March 31, 2009, 10:59:53 AM
Quote from: Que on March 31, 2009, 06:47:36 AM
What's on it? Medieval stuff? :)

Q

This New York based group has made two CDs for  Lyrichord, both containing medieval dance music. Together they cover almost all the surviving music (which is very little) in this category. The first contains the instrumental pieces from the so called Royal Manuscript (French, early 1300, the pieces probably a bit older), consisting of the eight monodic Estampies Royales and a few similar two-part pieces. They sound somewhat archaic. The other CD contains the Istampittas from an Italian manuscript, which is a little younger than the French, and accordingly the pieces sound a little more modern, some of them obviously influenced by Arabic music. Many of the pieces are well known, even by people who are not aware of that. The CDs in question are interesting for historical reasons, but I have heard much more engaging interpretations e.g. by the English Guillaume Dufay ensemble (first CD on Avie, second CD on Chandos).
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 31, 2009, 01:36:22 PM
Quote from: Bogey on March 31, 2009, 06:45:45 AM
A gift from my wife:

(http://208.131.143.232/i/1/0/5/1/4/5/4.jpg)   (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41BMC9NX3BL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)


Bill & Que - I have that disc above (left) and also a companion CD (inserted, right) - Premont has already given some discussion in his post; I've not listened to these discs in a while but enjoy these more 'ancient' instruments; the inserted disc contains 13th century French & English Dances + 14th century Italian Dances - all instrumental music w/ a wide variety of instruments (and in various combinations), e.g. shawms, flutes, harp, dulcimer, recorder, rebec, vielles , bagpipes, drums, and others; plenty of interesting pics in the booklet notes which are quite extensive - just returned from a 'too short' vacation to FL and OFF tomorrow, so will give them a listen!  Dave  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on April 13, 2009, 12:10:33 AM
Gathered around some of the comments on this set, before they are burried in the Listening thread forever.. :)

Quote from: BaxMan on April 12, 2009, 11:44:30 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61UCUEM4Q0L._SS500_.jpg)

How is it Q? Mine's on order.  :D

Quote from: erato on April 04, 2009, 12:01:43 AM
Then you should go for the two cheap doubles by the Tallis Scholas on Gimell called Tudor Church Music 1 & 2. I find them even better than this fine Tallis set.

Quote from: Harry on April 04, 2009, 05:12:09 AM
This is by far the best Tallis I heard for years, including the much lauded Gimell recordings, which I never much liked.

Quote from: Que on April 12, 2009, 01:35:34 AM
It's a very nice set. Tallis is no Desprez, but who is? :) And it's interesting for me to hear the British Renaissance School.
Performances and recordings are excellent. The set comes with a CD-ROM with full liner notes and texts on a pdf file - 75 pages!  :o (conveniently in A4 format)

Quote from: Lethe on April 12, 2009, 10:06:26 AM
There is a bit of piecemeal on that set - I find that he excels in the motets more than any other area. But he is somewhat less of a rounded composer than Byrd, for example, although it doesn't help that less of his music has survived.

Still happy with the set. This particular disc (disc V) also contains Tallis' surviving organ music, played on a very pretty sounding early 17th century organ.

The music is very nice, though I guess I will not delve into choral music from the British Renaissance Music too deeply. I'm just more stirred by the Franco-Belgians, Iberians and Italians. But I will check out that other famous British Renaissance composer: William Byrd. :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on April 13, 2009, 12:29:44 AM
The high renaissance lacks the grit and dissonance that the earlier renaissance provides, and therefore in my ears often sounds plainly "too pretty". I share your preference (in general) for the earlier generations, with some exceptions (the Spanish for their wonderfully ecstatic and "mystic" sounds, Lassus for his tunefullness). I find Talllis "too smooth" as well (I have owned this set for some time) - and have preferred composers like Sheppard and Philips, not to mention earlier generations like Frye and Dunstable.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on April 13, 2009, 12:37:02 AM
Quote from: erato on April 13, 2009, 12:29:44 AM
The high renaissance laks the grit and dissonance that the earlier renaissance provides, and therefore in my ears often sounds plainly "too pretty". I share your preference (in general) for the earlier generations, with some exceptions (the Spanish for their wonderfully ecstatic and "mystic" sounds, Lassus for his tunefullness). I find Talllis "too smooth" as well (I have owned this sett for some time) (...)

I didn't put it as plainly as that, but I cannot say that I much disagree either... ::)  8)

Thanks for the alternative suggestions! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Lethevich on April 13, 2009, 12:50:36 AM
I agree about Tallis' "smoothness", and it does characterise a fair part of the English Renaissance, although I find a specific interest in it for being quite different to the smoothness Palestrina (for example) achives - the textures are less plush and full, and sometimes approach minimal. But this is not the case for all of them.

Dunstaple would definitely be more of interest to one who prefers the Franco-Flemmish style - I find this disc (http://www.amazon.com/John-Dunstaple-Musician-Plantagenets-Orlando/dp/B000002K3V/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1239612314&sr=1-1) to be immaculate.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 13, 2009, 03:36:58 PM
Quote from: Lethe on April 13, 2009, 12:50:36 AM
Dunstaple would definitely be more of interest to one who prefers the Franco-Flemmish style - I find this disc (http://www.amazon.com/John-Dunstaple-Musician-Plantagenets-Orlando/dp/B000002K3V/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1239612314&sr=1-1) to be immaculate.

Sara - hey, I have that disc, also - need to give it a spin, though!  Dave  :D

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MYZ4CP7CL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on April 13, 2009, 08:50:54 PM
Quote from: SonicMan on April 13, 2009, 03:36:58 PM
Sara - hey, I have that disc, also - need to give it a spin, though!  Dave  :D

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MYZ4CP7CL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
I have it as well but it seems to have got AWOL in the collection somewhere, when that happens only time will tell how and where it resurfaces. Probably misfiled.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Lethevich on April 14, 2009, 12:53:18 AM
*sigh* My copy also appears to have gone walkabout too, although this is what you get when your filing system comprises of ever-shifting heaps.

A particular appeal of that disc as I recall is how clearly the lines come through. Compared to an ensemble such as the Hilliards, the acoustic hampers the music much less - in the Veni Sancte Spiritus motet it almost sounded like the two were singing different things.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on April 14, 2009, 03:01:16 AM
I found a disc of Robert Fayrfax masses which I had missed for 6 months inside a Norah Jones album recently. How is THAT for misfiling?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on April 14, 2009, 05:06:53 PM
Quote from: erato on April 14, 2009, 03:01:16 AM
I found a disc of Robert Fayrfax masses which I had missed for 6 months inside a Norah Jones album recently. How is THAT for misfiling?

How do you like the Fayrfax masses?  I bought the following works by Fayrfax a few weeks ago from MDT, all on the Gaudeamus label ...

Missa O quam glorifica, Ave Deo patris filia
Missa Tecum principium, Maria plena virtute
Missa Albanus, O Maria Deo grata, Eterne laudis lilium
Missa O bone Ihesu, Salve regina, Magnificat O bone Ihesu
Missa Regali ex progenie, Lauda vivi Alpha et O
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on April 14, 2009, 10:47:54 PM
I bought the cheap 3 CD set but haven't listened to them more than once so I really don't have an opinion yet.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on April 22, 2009, 11:25:22 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61UCUEM4Q0L._SS500_.jpg)

I've been through this whole set, time for some conclusions. :) See for previous comments by several of us HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg298111.html#msg298111).

A fine set and beautiful music. My first encounter with British Renaissance and Tallis' music is artfully crafted, and the effect is ethereal, introvert, lush and pleasing. As mentioned before, by erato I believe, what it does not have is grit, and I would add: edge and strong "earthy" emotions. Musically I found the later choral works all the more interesting, say the last 2-3 discs of them. Spem in Alium is a true masterpiece. I personally much liked to hear the instrumental works, notably the harpsichord and organ works. All music here is idiomatically performed with dedication and performances leave little to be desired.

So.  :) Do you need a complete Tallis set?  ::) From a musical point of view: No. Though it's all excellent music I suppose a good 2-3 CD collection of the later choral works would do, including the Spem in Alium naturally. But at this price this quality set won't hurt either, even if you would listen to the "extras" not that often.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 23, 2009, 06:36:36 AM
Quote from: Que on April 22, 2009, 11:25:22 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61UCUEM4Q0L._SS500_.jpg)

I've been through this whole set, time for some conclusions. :) See for previous comments by several of us HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg298111.html#msg298111).

A fine set and beautiful music.................

Q - thanks for the comments on the Tallis box - this set received a high recommendation in Fanfare at the end of last year, so has been on my 'potential to buy' list for a while; now w/ the further support of you et al, might just make a purchase, esp. @ the Brilliant price!

Just checked my Thomas Tallis collection; only 3 discs, and one w/ just 43 mins!  Hmm -  ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on April 23, 2009, 04:42:36 PM
Quote from: SonicMan on April 23, 2009, 06:36:36 AM
Q - thanks for the comments on the Tallis box - this set received a high recommendation in Fanfare at the end of last year, so has been on my 'potential to buy' list for a while; now w/ the further support of you et al, might just make a purchase, esp. @ the Brilliant price!

Just checked my Thomas Tallis collection; only 3 discs, and one w/ just 43 mins!  Hmm -  ;D

I have 16 CD's by Tallis.  I bought over 20 CD's of works between Byrd, Ockeghem, Palestrina and Fayrfax over the past two months to significantly boost my collection of early music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 23, 2009, 05:20:06 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on April 23, 2009, 04:42:36 PM
I have 16 CD's by Tallis.  I bought over 20 CD's of works between Byrd, Ockeghem, Palestrina and Fayrfax over the past two months to significantly boost my collection of early music.


Stuart - just curious - if Brilliant is claiming that 10 CDs represents Tallis' Complete Recordings, then how can you have '16 CDs by Tallis'?  I'm assuming that you have a number of discs w/ a variety of composers represented?  Dave  :D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on April 23, 2009, 05:25:25 PM
Quote from: SonicMan on April 23, 2009, 05:20:06 PM
Stuart - just curious - if Brilliant is claiming that 10 CDs represents Tallis' Complete Recordings, then how can you have '16 CDs by Tallis'?  I'm assuming that you have a number of discs w/ a variety of composers represented?  Dave  :D

It is simple, here are all my Tallis' recordings.  15 CD's and a few on LP ...

Spem in alium                       Clerkes of Oxenford
Magnificat and Nunc dimittis          Higginbottom
Messe Puer natus est          Clerkes of Oxenford
Lamentations of Jeremiah          ARS NOVA
Live in Oxford                       The Tallis Scholars/Phillips
Complete Works                       Gesamtwerk - L'Oeuvre Integrale
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on June 27, 2009, 09:56:45 AM
Can someone who is familiar with either of these recordings provides some insight about the recordings?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5136MM6ZTZL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61EHSEHCCBL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 28, 2009, 11:39:17 PM
And any opinions on this release?:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61fCciLveEL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on June 29, 2009, 04:14:32 PM
Quote from: Spitvalve on June 28, 2009, 11:39:17 PM
And any opinions on this release?:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61fCciLveEL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

We are getting silent treatment for our inquiries ...   ???
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: canninator on June 30, 2009, 06:14:23 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on June 27, 2009, 09:56:45 AM
Can someone who is familiar with either of these recordings provides some insight about the recordings?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5136MM6ZTZL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)



Sinners and Saints, long time stalwart of the Devonshire traditional heavy metal scene, deliver the goods on their ninth album "The Ultimate Medieval and Renaissance Music Collection". The recent firing of lead guitarist, ex-Toxic Love shredder Blaze Bradley, has seen the loss of the nu-metal sound that Sinners and Saints lamentably touted on their eighth album "Distorted Love Machine". In its place now are the merry stylings of Auld England that apparently Sinners and Saints were looking for all along. Says lead singer, Trey Violet, "We've always loved history and stuff and so now we've finally been able to combine our twin loves of England's rich musical heritage and kick-ass solos. Plus you've gotta see the tour because we're gonna have a Stonehenge". This reviewer says let's hope this is a sound that's here to stay because it had me whipping my neck and mutating the hexachord all through the night.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on June 30, 2009, 05:00:17 PM
Quote from: Il Furioso on June 30, 2009, 06:14:23 AM
Sinners and Saints, long time stalwart of the Devonshire traditional heavy metal scene, deliver the goods on their ninth album "The Ultimate Medieval and Renaissance Music Collection". The recent firing of lead guitarist, ex-Toxic Love shredder Blaze Bradley, has seen the loss of the nu-metal sound that Sinners and Saints lamentably touted on their eighth album "Distorted Love Machine". In its place now are the merry stylings of Auld England that apparently Sinners and Saints were looking for all along. Says lead singer, Trey Violet, "We've always loved history and stuff and so now we've finally been able to combine our twin loves of England's rich musical heritage and kick-ass solos. Plus you've gotta see the tour because we're gonna have a Stonehenge". This reviewer says let's hope this is a sound that's here to stay because it had me whipping my neck and mutating the hexachord all through the night.

???
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: DavidW on June 30, 2009, 06:49:57 PM
That was hilarious! :D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on June 30, 2009, 10:33:42 PM
Quote from: Il Furioso on June 30, 2009, 06:14:23 AM
Sinners and Saints, long time stalwart of the Devonshire traditional heavy metal scene, deliver the goods on their ninth album "The Ultimate Medieval and Renaissance Music Collection". The recent firing of lead guitarist, ex-Toxic Love shredder Blaze Bradley, has seen the loss of the nu-metal sound that Sinners and Saints lamentably touted on their eighth album "Distorted Love Machine". In its place now are the merry stylings of Auld England that apparently Sinners and Saints were looking for all along. Says lead singer, Trey Violet, "We've always loved history and stuff and so now we've finally been able to combine our twin loves of England's rich musical heritage and kick-ass solos. Plus you've gotta see the tour because we're gonna have a Stonehenge". This reviewer says let's hope this is a sound that's here to stay because it had me whipping my neck and mutating the hexachord all through the night.
Very fine post. Well suitable to the cover images as well.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 30, 2009, 10:44:08 PM
Quote from: Spitvalve on June 28, 2009, 11:39:17 PM
And any opinions on this release?:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61fCciLveEL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Haven't heard it (I admit steering away from Britsh Ensembles in the Franco-Flemish Renaissance repertoire), but still - some observations.

Is this a single disc? Because the term "the essential Desprez" is a contradictio in terminis - in my experience just about anything by Desprez is essential in the context of Renaisance music.
Also note this 6CD-set by Sei Voci as an option - great performances, great bargain. Earlier brief comment made  HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg267202.html#msg267202).

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0822186089064.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 30, 2009, 11:44:39 PM
Quote from: Que on June 30, 2009, 10:44:08 PM
(I admit steering away from Britsh Ensembles in the Franco-Flemish Renaissance repertoire)

Why?

QuoteIs this a single disc? Because the term "the essential Desprez" is a contradictio in terminis - in my experience just about anything by Desprez is essential in the context of Renaisance music.

I think it's just one disc, but all I care about is whether the music is good or not. Buying a whole load of Josquin CDs is not on my horizon just now.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on July 01, 2009, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Spitvalve on June 30, 2009, 11:44:39 PM
Why?

I think it's just one disc, but all I care about is whether the music is good or not. Buying a whole load of Josquin CDs is not on my horizon just now.

I still prefer Byrd and Ockeghem.  I loaded up on those CD's a few months ago when MDT was running sales and the Pound was weak ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on October 26, 2009, 01:55:08 AM
Taking the opportunity to bump this thread with a recommendation of this magnificent recording:

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/f4/33/3536a2c008a04c251067b010.L.jpg)

This is my 2nd recording of Machaut's famous masterpiece - deservedly a "must-have" for anyone interested in Medieval Music. My 1st acquaintance with this work was through the (controversial) interpretation by the Ensemble Organum under Michel Pérès. Read earlier comments HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg231478.html#msg231478) and HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg240820.html#msg240820). This recording is in comparison sung on smaller scale and without the "byzantine" tonal micro-intervals, making the resulting sound more transparent and ethereal in character. I have to emphasize however, that despite the ethereal blend of the sound of these fist class singers the music isn't smoothed out and all dissonant chords and other characteristics that give this music its expressiveness are showcased. Another winner from this super ensemble. Most strongly recommended!  :o :)

An enthusiastic review by David Vernier on ClassicsToday HERE (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=2103)
A slightly less enthusiastic review (of the earlier incarnation of this recording on Harmonic Records) on MusicWeb HERE (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/July02/MachautMass.htm). The reviewer takes issue with Andreas Scholl's contribution, in this instance, I do not agree. 8)
A five-star review on Goldbergweb HERE (http://www.goldbergweb.com/en/discography/1990/4184.php).

But whatever you do: DO get a recording of this marvelous music! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on October 26, 2009, 05:12:15 PM
Quote from: Que on October 26, 2009, 01:55:08 AM
Taking the opportunity to bump this thread with a recommendation of this magnificent recording:

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/f4/33/3536a2c008a04c251067b010.L.jpg)

This is my 2nd recording of Machaut's famous masterpiece - deservedly a "must-have" for anyone interested in Medieval Music. My 1st acquaintance with this work was through the (controversial) interpretation by the Ensemble Organum under Michel Pérès. Read earlier comments HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg231478.html#msg231478) and HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg240820.html#msg240820). This recording is in comparison sung on smaller scale and without the "byzantine" tonal micro-intervals, making the resulting sound more transparent and ethereal in character. I have to emphasize however, that despite the ethereal blend of the sound of these fist class singers the music isn't smoothed out and all dissonant chords and other characteristics that give this music its expressiveness are showcased. Another winner from this super ensemble. Most strongly recommended!  :o :)

An enthusiastic review by David Vernier on ClassicsToday HERE (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=2103)
A slightly less enthusiastic review (of the earlier incarnation of this recording on Harmonic Records) on MusicWeb HERE (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/July02/MachautMass.htm). The reviewer takes issue with Andreas Scholl's contribution, in this instance, I do not agree. 8)
A five-star review on Goldbergweb HERE (http://www.goldbergweb.com/en/discography/1990/4184.php).

But whatever you do: DO get a recording of this marvelous music! :)

Q

Q,  You always come up with these labels that I have never heard of.  In a little over a month, I went from having no Glossa CD's to 2 dozens of (mostly) early music CD's.     ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Franco on October 26, 2009, 06:02:36 PM
A fantastic work, I have the Taverner Consort (with Andrew Parrott) and the Wiener Ensemble doing it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on October 26, 2009, 10:28:14 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on October 26, 2009, 05:12:15 PM
Q,  You always come up with these labels that I have never heard of.  In a little over a month, I went from having no Glossa CD's to 2 dozens of (mostly) early music CD's.     ;D

Have a look - lots of Early Music goodies.  :)

(http://www.cantus-records.com/images/logo1.gif) (http://www.cantus-records.com/Eng/e_index.htm)
click on the picture

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on October 27, 2009, 05:08:13 PM
Quote from: Que on October 26, 2009, 10:28:14 PM
Have a look - lots of Early Music goodies.  :)

(http://www.cantus-records.com/images/logo1.gif) (http://www.cantus-records.com/Eng/e_index.htm)
click on the picture

Q

When I get the chance, I will check out the Cantus catalog for sure.  My next targets are some of the EMI box sets, which I have been putting off but MDT is having great sales.  I have never given Amazon the kind of business I have been giving MDT ...    ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on October 28, 2009, 09:51:35 AM
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/88697478442.jpg)

Featuring their famous and now deleted recording of the so-called "Earthquake" mass by Antoine Brumel, this 15 CDs boxset includes some of the most prestigious recordings available on the Sony Classical VIVARTE label and sheds light on this long-forgotten music that too often seems to lie in dark corners of European archives and libraries.

Paul van Nevel, choirmaster, musicologist, and cultural historian founded the Huelgas Ensemble in the early 1970's at the Schola Cantorum Basiliensis. The Ensemble has emerged as one of Europe's main vocal ensembles dedicated to the performance of music from the Middle Ages and the Renaissance. Van Nevel has won a number of prestigious awards for his recordings with the Huelgas Ensemble. Their recording of the music of Renaissance composer Mattheus Pipelare, Pipelare: Missa "L'homme armé" , won the 1998 Cannes Classical Award for Best Choral Music, in addition to the Diapason d'or in 1996. Previous albums, including their critically acclaimed Utopia Triumphans, have accumulated similar accolades. Van Nevel has also been awarded the "Prix In Honorem" from the Académie Charles Cros in Paris.

Tracks:
CD 1 Codex Las Huelgas - Music from 13th Century Spain
CD 2 Febus Avant! ,Music at the Court of Gaston Febus (1331-1391)
CD 3 Music from the Court of King Janus at Nicosia (1374-1432)
CD 4 Utopia Triumphans - Tallis, Striggio and other renaissance choral works
CD 5 Alexander Agricola - A Secret Labyrinth
CD 6 Matthaeus - Missa "L'homme armé", Chansons, Motets
CD 7 Antoine Brumel - Missa "Et ecce terrae motus", Sequentia "Dies irae"
CD 8 Mateo Flecha el Viejo (1481-1553) - Las Ensaladas
CD 9 Costanzo Festa (c.1490-1545) - Magnificat, Mass parts, Motets, Madrigals
CD 10 Nicolas Gombert (c.1500-c.1557) - Music from the Court of Charles V
CD 11 Pierre de Manchicourt (c.1510-1564) - Missa "Veni Sancte Spiritus", Motets, Chansons
CD 12 Orlando di Lasso (1532-1594) - Lagrime di San Pietro
CD 13 Jacobus Gallus (1550-1591) - Opus musicum, Missa super "Sancta Maria"
CD 14 Cancoes, Vilancicos - e Motetes Portugueses , Séculos XVI-XVII
CD 15 Joao Lourenco Rebelo (1610-1661) Lamentations for Maundy Thursday, Vesper Psalms
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on November 01, 2009, 11:34:02 AM
Is Gimell the top label for early music?  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on November 01, 2009, 12:10:06 PM
No. It's one of the top labels for a particular kind of early music (mid-to-late renaissance polyphonic church music from northern Europe) performed according to the British style ideal.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on November 17, 2009, 10:43:55 PM
Quote from: Novi on November 17, 2009, 04:08:38 PM

I'm looking for Gesualdo recommendations. I only have his Tenebrae Responsoria (Hilliard Ensemble) and want to hear some of the madrigals. Any suggestions for whichever book? There doesn't seem to be that much out there. ???

I think you'll be satisfied with either of the recordings by La Venexiana (Glossa):

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8424562209343.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8424562209350.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on November 18, 2009, 06:46:55 PM
Quote from: Que on November 17, 2009, 10:43:55 PM
I think you'll be satisfied with either of the recordings by La Venexiana (Glossa):

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8424562209343.jpg) (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8424562209350.jpg)

Q

Q was exactly right.  I bought these 2 Glossa CD's about a month ago.  Gimell also has some nice recordings ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Sean on November 19, 2009, 11:38:49 AM
Just been listening to a mass by him- he's slighly more known for madrigals and his polyphony is a bit predictable.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Sean on November 19, 2009, 11:45:46 AM
Similar odd tonal insight to Fayrfax, though textures less rich or secure, and I'm not at all sure how he does it- I thought the tonal modes weren't in use till late 16th c?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Sean on November 19, 2009, 11:46:38 AM
Also tried some of his polyphony, from Isaac's early 16th period, but without anything like the gravitas.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Sean on November 19, 2009, 11:48:07 AM
Slightly disappointing, or at least not up to Morley or Wilbye's level of sensitivity; vigorous for the period though.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Sean on November 19, 2009, 11:50:26 AM
They're in the same line of exquisite music as by D'India and Luigi Rossi, even if Wert was Flemish to begin with; the Caccini songs (& 'madrigals') are as superb as they're said to be.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Sean on November 19, 2009, 11:52:29 AM
Also tried his large scale Christmas vespers- elaborate instrumental contribution though didn't emerge as entirely convincing; some similarities with Janequin perhaps.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on November 20, 2009, 05:55:12 PM
Quote from: Sean on November 19, 2009, 11:45:46 AM
Similar odd tonal insight to Fayrfax, though textures less rich or secure, and I'm not at all sure how he does it- I thought the tonal modes weren't in use till late 16th c?

I bought all 5 volumes of FAYRFAX works by Cardinall`s Musick with Andrew Carwood on ASV Gaudeamus early this year, very inspirational music IMO ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Sean on November 21, 2009, 10:36:40 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on November 20, 2009, 05:55:12 PM
I bought all 5 volumes of FAYRFAX works by Cardinall`s Musick with Andrew Carwood on ASV Gaudeamus early this year, very inspirational music IMO ...

Absolutely; Fayrfax is one of the most interesting figures in the entire renaissance and 100 years ahead of his time- the Missa Albanus made a huge impression on me (and likely would on anyone). Ludford is his admirable sidekick.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on November 21, 2009, 10:42:01 AM
Quote from: Sean on November 21, 2009, 10:36:40 AM
Absolutely; Fayrfax is one of the most interesting figures in the entire renaissance and 100 years ahead of his time- the Missa Albanus made a huge impression on me (and likely would on anyone). Ludford is his admirable sidekick.

I do not have any standalone recordings of Ludford's works.  This will be my next exploration ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Sean on November 21, 2009, 10:56:07 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on November 21, 2009, 10:42:01 AM
I do not have any standalone recordings of Ludford's works.  This will be my next exploration ...

The same group has done a similar short survey, as you probably know.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on November 21, 2009, 11:01:25 AM
Quote from: Sean on November 21, 2009, 10:56:07 AM
The same group has done a similar short survey, as you probably know.

Indeed.  As I already have a pretty comprehensive collection of baroque works, it is only natural to explore the early music since I cannot stand "modern" classical music ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 13, 2010, 12:17:47 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41t0Aaw%2BEVL._SS500_.jpg)

Taking the opportunity to bump this thread with some comments on Franco-Flemisch early Renaissance composer Johannes Ockeghem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Ockeghem)'s Requiem in the performance by Marcel Pérès and the Ensemble Organum.

Although for this budget issue the notes on composer & work have been retained, there is nothing anymore about the performance...
Those familiar with the ensemble and its conductor might know what to expect: solemn, earthy, expressive and inventive, and above all: quite intense. Unlike Britsh ensembles, the singing is focused on using chest-tones. To present Ockeghem's composition in the proper lithurgical context a Sanctus and Communia by Antonius Divitis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonius_Divitis) are added, together with alternating Plain-chant Some parts (Introit, Kyrie, Graduale) are performed at lower pitch, which might raise eyebrows. But it seems to work well. This is a great disc, and in any case interesting and different - especially for those used to British style performances.

Nice discography of Johannes Ockeghem HERE (http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/composers/ockeghem.html).  Samples of this recording HERE (http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=802678).

Would welcome any additional Ockeghem recommedations! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 13, 2010, 04:58:47 AM
Quote from: Que on February 13, 2010, 12:17:47 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41t0Aaw%2BEVL._SS500_.jpg)

Taking the opportunity to bump this thread with some comments on Franco-Flemisch early Renaissance composer Johannes Ockeghem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Ockeghem)'s Requiem in the performance by Marcel Pérès and the Ensemble Organum.

Although for this budget issue the notes on composer & work have been retained, there is nothing anymore about the performance...
Those familiar with the ensemble and its conductor might know what to expect: solemn, earthy, expressive and inventive, and above all: quite intense. Unlike Britsh ensembles, the singing is focused on using chest-tones. To present Ockeghem's composition in the proper lithurgical context a Sanctus and Communia by Antonius Divitis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonius_Divitis) are added, together with alternating Plain-chant Some parts (Introit, Kyrie, Graduale) are performed at lower pitch, which might raise eyebrows. But it seems to work well. This is a great disc, and in any case interesting and different - especially for those used to British style performances.

Nice discography of Johannes Ockeghem HERE (http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/composers/ockeghem.html).  Samples of this recording HERE (http://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=802678).

Would welcome any additional Ockeghem recommedations! :)

Q

Q,  Here is a nice one I have by the famed Tallis Scholars ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NK1N1XGPL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I also have another 6 volumes by The Clerks' Group/Wickham on the English? label Gaudeamus ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 14, 2010, 12:29:32 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on February 13, 2010, 04:58:47 AM
Q,  Here is a nice one I have by the famed Tallis Scholars ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NK1N1XGPL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I also have another 6 volumes by The Clerks' Group/Wickham on the English? label Gaudeamus ...

Thanks! :) But I've decided some time ago that I do not prefer the Franco-Flemish repertoire performed in British style, with its smooth phrasing, ethereal blending of sound and continuously singing on the top of the voices. Don't get me wrong: it is a rich and wonderful tradition that fits Tallis et al like a glove!  :) But for the Franco-Flemish I've taken a fancy for ensembles like the Flemish Huelgas Ensemble, or French ensembles like A Sei Voci, Ensemble Gilles Binchois, the Ensemble Organum and the Ensemble Musica Nova, that I recently discovered in Machaut's motets (Zig-Zag, should post on that soon..)

So on Ockeghem I've been considering this - anyone knows it? :)

(http://www.outhere-music.com/data/cds/1977/BIG.JPG)

More info on the recording HERE (http://www.outhere-music.com/store-AECD0753).

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 14, 2010, 03:31:27 AM
Quote from: Que on February 14, 2010, 12:29:32 AM
Thanks! :) But I've decided some time ago that I do not prefer the Franco-Flemish repertoire performed in British style, with its smooth phrasing, ethereal blending of sound and continuously singing on the top of the voices. Don't get me wrong: it is a rich and wonderful tradition that fits Tallis et al like a glove!  :) But for the Franco-Flemish I've taken a fancy for ensembles like the Flemish Huelgas Ensemble, or French ensembles like A Sei Voci, Ensemble Gilles Binchois, the Ensemble Organum and the Ensemble Musica Nova, that I recently discovered in Machaut's motets (Zig-Zag, should post on that soon..)

So on Ockeghem I've been considering this - anyone knows it? :)

(http://www.outhere-music.com/data/cds/1977/BIG.JPG)

More info on the recording HERE (http://www.outhere-music.com/store-AECD0753).

Q

I have seen this CD around but know nothing about the ensemble.  I respect your opinion, which I also share when it comes to Bach choral works performed by English ensembles and have scoured the web for Okeghem's recordings but really have not come up with anything meaningful except the set by The Clerks' Group/Wickham.  Please post your findings if you run across something worth taking a serious look ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on February 14, 2010, 03:58:05 AM
Quote from: Que on February 14, 2010, 12:29:32 AM
So on Ockeghem I've been considering this - anyone knows it? :)

(http://www.outhere-music.com/data/cds/1977/BIG.JPG)


Recording of the year here: http://www.medieval.org/music/early/07.html (http://www.medieval.org/music/early/07.html)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Manos on February 28, 2010, 04:08:25 PM
Quote from: Que on February 13, 2010, 12:17:47 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41t0Aaw%2BEVL._SS500_.jpg)

Taking the opportunity to bump this thread with some comments on Franco-Flemisch early Renaissance composer Johannes Ockeghem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Ockeghem)'s Requiem in the performance by Marcel Pérès and the Ensemble Organum.

Although for this budget issue the notes on composer & work have been retained, there is nothing anymore about the performance...
The original notes don't contain much information, either. The recording was made at l'Abbaye de Fontevraud in November 1992.  If you like, I can scan the contents page with personnel listings.

This is an enjoyable recording.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: sonusantiqva on November 18, 2010, 11:59:52 PM
Navigating this beautiful forum I found a corner devoted to early music, thankfully.

I present an interesting novelty of medieval music. This is an interesting record-book, which also counts with the collaboration of the recent Nobel laureate Mario Vargas Llosa: Tirant lo Blanch-Capella de Ministrers-Carles Magraner (http://www.diverdi.com/portal/detalle.aspx?id=43620)

(http://www.diverdi.com/files/ag/43620/CDM-1029_B.jpg)

Saludos.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: sonusantiqva on November 22, 2010, 09:59:24 AM
While I have your favorite version of the Machaut Messe nostre dame,
I present the last recording appeared on the market:

(http://www.qobuz.com/images/jaquettes/3760/3760058360934_600.jpg)

INFO in OUTHERE (http://www.outhere-music.com/store-AECD_1093)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on December 17, 2010, 02:39:54 AM
Quote from: Drasko on December 17, 2010, 02:36:33 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51DvOSDI2qL._SS500_.jpg)

Hi! :) Delighted to see you here more often again BTW.

Please tell how that recording on Stradivarius does in comparison to A Sei Voci? :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on December 17, 2010, 07:57:59 AM
Quote from: Que on December 17, 2010, 02:39:54 AM

Please tell how that recording on Stradivarius does in comparison to A Sei Voci? :)


I like De Labyrintho very much. It's quite different sound from A Sei Voci, much sparser (no instrumental accompaniment, no children), less atmospheric, with sharper delineation of voices, closer to Hilliards in that regard but thankfully more full bloodied (listen how the rhythm change on Cum Sancto Spiritu kicks) and emotional than usual british style (hugely moving Qui tollis, most beautiful I heard). I also like their clarity of pronunciation, if somewhat italianate (like in in excelsis). To keep it short I've uploaded Gloria from the mass from both De Labyrintho and A Sei Voci for comparison.

Josquin - Missa Hercules Dux Ferrariae - Gloria - A Sei Voci (http://www.mediafire.com/?blr0dpncc87n8h2) 

Josquin - Missa Hercules Dux Ferrariae - Gloria - De Labyrintho (http://www.mediafire.com/?lw1xqmd161c82cd)

I think it's definitely worth having both.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on March 14, 2011, 01:45:13 AM
(http://image.musicimport.biz/sdimages/disk13/164910.jpg)

This is stunningly good. I've heard a deal of early music that was edified, noble, lovely to sound, but had no idea it could have this much life in it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: FideLeo on March 14, 2011, 02:13:48 AM
A much more recent example of inspired Machaut performance.  Marc Mauillon's articulation is fluid.

[asin]B000GLKRSI[/asin]

Ensemble PAN's handful of Machaut recordings, on the other hand, have long been celebrated.

[asin]B000000R3S[/asin]

http://www.youtube.com/v/H3sT8Tla02o
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: val on March 15, 2011, 01:58:50 AM
Until now, I did enjoy very much the recording of the Studio der frühe Musik directed by Thomas Binkley or the songs recorded by Munrow with the Early Music Consort. I will try the version of the Gothic Voices.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on March 15, 2011, 03:34:46 AM
I've placed an order with BRO for a bunch of secular music from roughly this era, including Machaut. Hoping for more treasures. It's curious that so many recordings in this area are thematically programmed, rather than presenting one type of composition by one composer. The completist in me bridles at this, but taste-testing has its appeal.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 22, 2011, 10:21:59 PM
Quote from: Drasko on March 22, 2011, 02:23:55 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41YE2FSP00L.jpg)

Drasko, how is that one? :)

An unknown ensemble to me - I had to google it. (Info at ORF (http://shop.orf.at/1/index.tmpl?shop=oe1&SEITE=artikel-detail&ARTIKEL=3048&startat=1&page=1&zeigen=t&lang=EN))

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on March 23, 2011, 12:45:24 PM
Quote from: Que on March 22, 2011, 10:21:59 PM
Drasko, how is that one? :)

An unknown ensemble to me - I had to google it. (Info at ORF (http://shop.orf.at/1/index.tmpl?shop=oe1&SEITE=artikel-detail&ARTIKEL=3048&startat=1&page=1&zeigen=t&lang=EN))

Q

It's my first encounter with both The Sound and the Fury ensemble and Gombert. The ensemble is simply fantastic, one of the finest early groups I've heard this far (check the clips at orf site). ORF recording is also first rate, would love to hear their Obrecht and de la Rue discs, but they are bit on the expensive side.

Gombert I'm finding difficult to get into. His counterpoint is very thick and the drive is relentless. I'll probably need some time to get to grips with his style.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on March 24, 2011, 05:07:00 AM
Good idea, cutting this from listening thread. To make it more useful here's sample from above mentioned disc:

Nicolas Gombert - Ave Maria - motet for five voices - The Sound and the Fury (flac)

http://www.mediafire.com/?5bkwl38xd1hl7fk


p.s. Que, we had similar short exchange quite a while ago on De Labyrintho and A Sei Voci Josquin discs. Could you cut & paste that too? I posted some samples there, shame to go to waste buried in listening thread.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on March 24, 2011, 05:25:53 AM
Quote from: Drasko on March 24, 2011, 05:07:00 AM
Good idea, cutting this from listening thread.
Yes, and I think the cover is very beatiful and most appropriate. Makes me wonder about what kind of reflexes makes people think this cover is disgusting. Impure in thought etc....(maybe)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on April 04, 2011, 08:11:44 AM
Vitry, Machaut, Landini and those subtilior cats... who else counts, on stylistic grounds, as an ars nova composer? Will someone name names for me? Thanks.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on April 04, 2011, 08:46:30 AM
http://www.hoasm.org/IID/IIDArsNovaFrance.html (http://www.hoasm.org/IID/IIDArsNovaFrance.html)

•Franciscus Andrieu (?Magister Franciscus)
•Baralipton
•Chassa
•Bernard de Cluny
•Jehan de Villeroye [Briquet]
•Grimace
•Jehannot de l'Escurel
•Johannes (Jean) de Muris
•Guillaume de Machaut
•Pierre des Molins
•Petrus de Cruce [Pierre de la Croix]
•Jean Vaillant
•Philippe de Vitry

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on April 04, 2011, 09:53:21 AM
Quote from: The new erato on April 04, 2011, 08:46:30 AM
http://www.hoasm.org/IID/IIDArsNovaFrance.html (http://www.hoasm.org/IID/IIDArsNovaFrance.html)

•Franciscus Andrieu (?Magister Franciscus)
•Baralipton
•Chassa
•Bernard de Cluny
•Jehan de Villeroye [Briquet]
•Grimace
•Jehannot de l'Escurel
•Johannes (Jean) de Muris
•Guillaume de Machaut
•Pierre des Molins
•Petrus de Cruce [Pierre de la Croix]
•Jean Vaillant
•Philippe de Vitry

That's a good article, thanks. It's striking how little music survives by most of these people. Having been shocked and amazed by Machaut, I was hoping to find a wealth of secular polyphony just like his. Not to be, I reckon. I have some Vitry, Landini and Ciconia on the way though. They might scratch the itch!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on May 23, 2011, 08:31:05 PM
Quote from: Sid on May 23, 2011, 05:50:16 PM
Antoine BRUMEL
Mass for 12 voices, "Et Ecce Terrae Motus" (with three organs and brass accompaniment)
Dominique Visse (Conductor), Ensemble Clément Janequin, Les Sacqueboutiers de Toulouse
Harmonia Mundi
[...]

These two masses are really different, but both are great. I borrowed the Brumel from the library & hadn't heard it in 15 years. He was a Renaissance composer whose dates are c.1460 - 1515. He started his career as a choirboy at Chartres Cathedral and ended it working conducting a choir in Italy. This mass is his most significant work, and both in terms of the large forces used and the length and complexity of the work, nothing can match it from that time except Tallis' Spem in alium (a masterpiece that I haven't heard yet). Complexity is the word with this work. Some parts come across as a "wall of sound" (like the music of Brumel's teacher Josquin des Prez), but Brumel also builds things up gradually for maximum effect. Take the concluding Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) which is in three parts. The first is choir only, in the second the brass comes in, and in the third the organs. It's one of the most amazing climaxes you're likely to ever hear. It's certainly just as sophisticated (if not more) as anything I've heard from more contemporary composers. I'm actually amazed at how Brumel could get this all down on the page, all of this complexity (I mean - THREE organs!). It's simply staggering. This work was published in the 1500's & we are lucky to have a full copy of the score. This work remained popular even after Brumel's death - the great Lassus, a composer of the next generation, was to direct a number of performances of it in Germany.
[...]

[asin]B00009EPFF[/asin]

I love Sid's write ups - fresh first impressions of musical dicoveries. I hope he doesn't mind me quoting him to save it here! :) And hope his enthousiasm will inspire others to explore.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on May 28, 2011, 01:37:29 AM
Quote from: Sid on May 25, 2011, 10:39:20 PM
Thanks very much for that also. It's good to have some members here who are really clued up about this area of early classical. I am only familiar with the names Brumel & Lasso (Lasssus) on the track listing. I'm highly impressed by the Brumel mass for 12 voices, as I have talked about previously. I haven't heard about the other pieces/composers. Are the other items on this set highly regarded parts of the repertoire of that time? Are they generally representative of the eras? Basically is this set a good introduction or kind of "launchpad" into this repertoire for newcomers like myself? I'm kind of looking less for "definitive" performances, I'm more interested in "defining" works of those times...


Sid, Van Nevel is known for seeking out music of quality which is in many cases lesser known. So, this set can work as both a perfect starter kit as well as an important addition to an existing Early Music collection. For me it worked as something in between but mainly as a huge eye opener.
No big names like Machaut, Dufay, Desprez or Victoria, but still highly significant and hugely rewarding music - I assure you! :) Van Nevel's main focus is on the Franco-Flemish repertoire, and he is in that field second to none IMO, but he also explores in this set music from the Iberian peninsula and Italy.

I'm taking the opportunity to execute an old plan: revisiting the whole set from start to finish and posting my impressions.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510jX7fro6L.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BXoO3q4vL.jpg) 

The Las Huelgas Codex (Wiki on the Codex. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Las_Huelgas)) gave the ensemble its name and is appropriately place d 1st in the set. What can I say in addition to David Vernier's comment below, which is very  to the point IMO, other than I was amazed how interesting and touching music that early could be. The performance is more than perfect: Van Nevel succeeds in turning old manuscripts in music of real flesh and blood, full of emotion combined with absolutely musically perfect execution - absolutely rock steady, transparant and immaculate singing.

Just how engaging, catchy, lively, and artful can 13th century Spanish music be? Very, as evidenced by this collection of motets, conductus, mass movements, and strophic songs from the legendary manuscript compiled at the 12th-century Cistercian convent at Las Huelgas. This remarkable program, highlighting only a handful of the nearly 200 works contained in the original manuscript, shows not only the beauty and inventiveness of sacred music of this period, but also how colorful and varied it could be. And just how well sung and played is it? Impressively, as shown by these five exceptional female voices and period instrumentalists from the superb Huelgas Ensemble. Instruments--recorders, fiddles, rebec, and percussion--are sparingly and effectively used, and the singers treat us to exciting yet rarely heard ornamentation, an ancient art that sounds eerily modern. [David Vernier on Amazon]

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on May 28, 2011, 11:49:25 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61zAGDwO%2BiL.jpg)  (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0886974784425.jpg)

As an introduction a small blurp about the background of this music (more HERE (http://unprofitableinstruments.com/febusavant/Febus/Febus.htm) and HERE (http://unprofitableinstruments.com/febusavant/paperabstract.htm)):

At the end of the fourteenth century—amidst war, famine, and religious division—an extraordinary musical society flourished in southern France. Nurtured in the courts of wealthy lords, the music of this society reflected and contributed to the prestige of the upper-class society. In this style, now known as the Ars subtilior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars_subtilior) (the more subtle art), highly trained poet-musicians wrote and performed complex music for the entertainment of an elite, highly cultured audience. Many pieces written at this time were dedicated to specific patrons, celebrating their achievements. One of the principle patrons of this music was Gaston Febus III, count of Foix and Béarn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaston_III,_Count_of_Foix), two small but wealthy territories in southern France.

This 2nd disc is one of my favourites of the set, if that is possible with such a wealth of first rate recordings. :) As a personal note to the excellent review below, I must say it is absolutely fascinating music, sounding surprisingly modern in the way it feels free from convention, unusual and very expressive. If members can make me recommedations of similar recordings I would be most obliged! :)

QuoteThis is a highly distinctive record, in which each piece is approached in a different way, most are approached in a novel way, and everything seems to work very well. Paul van Nevel and his musicians have attacked the bizarre music of the late fourteenth century with spirit and originality: nobody seems to know how this music should have sounded, but every performance here undeniably brings out important qualities in the music.

Van Nevel's first surprise is to use a choir of six women to sing the top line of Le Mont Aon, normally thought of as a solo song; then he performs the first stanza with just these plus a trombone on the tenor line, adding the third voice (on a vielle) only for the later stanzas. This actually keeps the ear alive through over 12 minutes of intricate music. And he brings a similar surprise for the last piece, Cuvelier's Se Galaas, where he has just his women singing on all three voices, with a hardedged and direct tone that brings out the dissonances and rhythms with a wonderful clarity: you really get the excitement of the battle-cry "Febus avant" that opens the refrain. For the songs by Trebor and Solage, he uses just three male voices, again with splendidly convincing results, I think, though some listeners may disagree: in any case, Solage's Fumeux fume is one of the strangest pieces ever written, with its weird dissonances and very low texture (treated here literally), so the sound is a little strange whatever you do to it. Again, the point here is that Van Nevel approaches it in a new way and brings new qualities out of the work. Two of the motets are performed twice through, first with only one of the upper voices sung, so that the listener can grapple with the details by stages. And the canonic Tres doux compains is done as an instrumental piece for three delicioussounding tenor recorders, bringing out many musical details that would be lost if it was sung.

I think this may be the kind of record you could give to people unfamiliar with medieval music in the confident expectation that they would enjoy it and that the performances gave a responsible account of what is in the music.
D.F [Gramophone]

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: haydnguy on May 29, 2011, 01:26:20 AM
Que, I'm just starting back with my listening also. Your more qualified to do the commentary but you might want to mention which disk in the set it is. I JUST started Disk 6 for the first listen which was:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61PBjKVDefL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on May 29, 2011, 01:42:02 AM
Quote from: haydnguy on May 29, 2011, 01:26:20 AM
Que, I'm just starting back with my listening also.

Check (2nd). :)

QuoteYour more qualified to do the commentary but you might want to mention which disk in the set it is.

Oh no, not at all - please pitch in!  :)

I'm sure those here are that a really in the know (a.o. premont, Josquin Desprez, Jochanaan, lethe, Drasko) will step in when necessary to correct us. :D

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: haydnguy on May 31, 2011, 02:13:38 AM
Currently finishing up my second listen of Disk 8. This set is an excellent set if anyone likes this kind of music. A good value for the money I believe.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51PWVdkcRbL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: haydnguy on May 31, 2011, 02:21:23 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on February 13, 2010, 04:58:47 AM
Q,  Here is a nice one I have by the famed Tallis Scholars ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NK1N1XGPL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I also have another 6 volumes by The Clerks' Group/Wickham on the English? label Gaudeamus ...

Thanks, coopmv! I've added the Tallis Scholar disk to my cart.  8)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: haydnguy on May 31, 2011, 02:37:53 AM
Moving on to Disk 9 of the set. I want to mention that these are available as individual issues but the set is such a good value that the indiviual CD's are quite expensive in comparison.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IBODfkfhL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on May 31, 2011, 04:40:32 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on May 28, 2011, 11:49:25 PMIf members can make me recommedations of similar recordings I would be most obliged! :)

Great series of posts, please keep them coming. I've plunked for the box. Re. ars subtilior recordings, here are a few:

Ars Magis Subtiliter: Music of the Chantilly Codex (1), New Albion  21
-- Ensemble P.A.N.
Codex Chantilly: Ballades & Rondeaux (1), Harmonia Mundi  1951252
-- Marcel Pérès, Ensemble Organum
Corps Femenin: L'Avant Garde de Jean Duc de Berry (1), Arcana  355
-- Crawford Young, Ferrara Ensemble
and the Solage half of
The Unknown Lover: Songs by Solage and Machaut (1), Avie  2089
-- Gothic Voices

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on May 31, 2011, 06:13:23 AM
Quote from: haydnguy on May 31, 2011, 02:37:53 AM
Moving on to Disk 9 of the set. I want to mention that these are available as individual issues but the set is such a good value that the indiviual CD's are quite expensive in comparison.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IBODfkfhL._SS500_.jpg)

Isn't this set currently unavailable on Amazon? 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on May 31, 2011, 06:17:46 AM
Here is a 4-CD set I purchased a few weeks ago that I have quite enjoyed.  It is also quite attractively priced as a box set ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513%2BEB6YlHL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on May 31, 2011, 09:51:52 AM
Quote from: chasmaniac on May 31, 2011, 04:40:32 AM
Great series of posts, please keep them coming. I've plunked for the box. Re. ars subtilior recordings, here are a few:

Ars Magis Subtiliter: Music of the Chantilly Codex (1), New Albion  21
-- Ensemble P.A.N.
Codex Chantilly: Ballades & Rondeaux (1), Harmonia Mundi  1951252
-- Marcel Pérès, Ensemble Organum
Corps Femenin: L'Avant Garde de Jean Duc de Berry (1), Arcana  355
-- Crawford Young, Ferrara Ensemble
and the Solage half of
The Unknown Lover: Songs by Solage and Machaut (1), Avie  2089
-- Gothic Voices

Thanks, and I will post on each and every one of the discs! :o :D

And much obliged for the wonderful suggestions - thank you! :)

Quote from: Coopmv on May 31, 2011, 06:13:23 AM
Isn't this set currently unavailable on Amazon?

David is referring to this set, that you already have, if I'm not mistaken? :) :

[asin]B00205RKMO[/asin]

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on May 31, 2011, 12:12:30 PM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on May 31, 2011, 09:51:52 AM
David is referring to this set, that you already have, if I'm not mistaken? :) :

[asin]B00205RKMO[/asin]

For Europeans: price at jpc is now down to €30 - click here (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/A-Secret-Labyrinth-Musik-vom-Mittelalter-zur-Renaissance/hnum/4487642)! :)

Q

Absolutely.  I was among the first 2 or 3 members of this forum to get this set.  But this set is still available unless David is looking for a previous incarnation of this set.

Also I noticed a different CD cover and thereby created the confusion ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: haydnguy on June 01, 2011, 01:20:41 AM
Moving on to Disk 10. This set is not going to be far away from arms length for a long time!

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61G1HZGNQBL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on June 01, 2011, 04:38:20 AM
Quote from: haydnguy on June 01, 2011, 01:20:41 AM
Moving on to Disk 10. This set is not going to be far away from arms length for a long time!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61G1HZGNQBL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

This is from a Gramophone review of disc #1 from the set.

Van Nevel is easily as eccentric as Agricola ever was, and while the singers of the Huelgas Ensemble cope admirably with even his most bizarre directions, some ideas seem to be almost beyond the pale. He claims that fully vocal performance of the instrumental music is at least plausible. In the case of the six-voice Fortuna desperata (now, with at least four recordings, a staple of the Agricola repertoire) one can hardly disagree, but to hear the soprano clambering up two-and-a-half octaves in semiquavers (Dung aultre amet) forces admiration and disbelief in equal measure... The amazing thing is that the singers' sheer athleticism and musicality lends such dotty notions an air of plausibility. More than that, they confirm the growing perception of Agricola as a composer of the very first rank. I have no hesitation in singling out [this recording] among this year's high points.

What do you make of this? Is it just a hangover from the old debate Christopher Page and company had about the vocalization of non-texted music? Aside from, and in my opinion more important than, the question of plausibility, how does it sound? Is it juicy? Is it sweet?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 02, 2011, 12:30:05 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ym%2BvG7ccL.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BXoO3q4vL._SS400_.jpg)

The music on this 3rd disc of the set has an amazing background:

The French noble family De Lusignan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusignan_dynasty) came in possesion of the island of Cyprus after Guy de Lusignan, King of Jerusalem, bought it. Hence a French court on Cyprus, importing the French musical tradition and it became later a centre for the Ars Subtilior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars_subtilior) style. More on this HERE (http://www.cypnet.co.uk/ncyprus/culture/music/medieval/index.html).

Cultural life reached its heights during the reign of King Janus. Janus's daughter Anna upon her marriage to Louis of Savoy, Count of Geneva, took with her a thick manuscript, written between 1413 and 1426, The Savoys later became kings of Italy and the manuscript ended up in the collection of the National Library of Turin, Italy. It consists of 159 folios containing over two hundred polyphonic compositions both sacred and secular.

This disc with a selection from the Turin manuscript did not impres me the most, nice, but sounds a bit off. Not the WOW factor of the Febus disc, it has beautiful moments but in general comes across as languid and not really engaging.

Researching the disc, this review from Gramophone explains why:

This is the oddest record I have heard in a long time. Paul van Nevel has always been a maverick, an unpredictable figure whose approach can seem, depending on your viewpoint, either astonishingly bold or thoroughly bizarre.
For a few years now the idea has been floating round—apparently pioneered by Ephraim Segerman, a courageous figure who refuses to let subjective musical judgements cloud his pursuit of logic—that we perform all our medieval and renaissance music several times too fast. It's a theory based on surviving documents but hard to believe. Anyway, Paul van Nevel here tries it out. The ballade "Si doulcement me fait amours vrais amans lasts" over 19 minutes, when it would normally last about seven minutes; needless to say that the words are entirely lost, though some passing dissonances become wonderful, long-drawn out scrunches; it's a very strange piece anyway. Just a single stanza of the ballade Si doulchement mon ceur lasts nearly six minutes; and thank heavens he didn't record the other two stanzas, because he has also chosen to pitch it so extraordinarily low that even the formidable Harry van der Kamp cannot hold the notes steadily and even the nonpareil Marius van Altena fails to keep the line moving: the sound is to my ears thoroughly and irredeemably unpleasant.
For the motet Personet armonia he chooses an ensemble of shawm and two trombones, but with a sopranino recorder doubling the tenor at the interval of two and a half octaves. Again, the theory of the thing seems easy to see, derived from organ registration; but organs are carefully balanced and good organists judge their registration by using their ears, which nobody seems to have done here (though I say 'seems' because the producer, Wolf Erichson, is probably the most experienced man in the business, world-wide).
On the other hand, the Gloria and the Credo sound wonderful: lucid, flowing, well balanced and above all full of vital musicianship. One explanation might be that in these pieces Paul van Nevel had just slipped out for a drink and left the singers to get on with it; but, on balance, I suspect that he is reminding us that he really can produce a musical performance along more accepted lines. Strictly for die-hard enthusiasts, then, or for those intrigued by the far-out. DF


So, Van Nevel took some eccentric decisions on the matter of tempo.  ::) :) I like the daring attitude and often, as will be evident in the rest of the set, it pays off. But maybe not quite so in this instance.

I definitely do like to hear more from the Cypriotic Turin manscript - Suggestions are welcome! :)
Van Nevel did another disc - see below - anyone able to comment on that? :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51uA3uXQj7L._SS400_.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on June 02, 2011, 02:22:54 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on June 02, 2011, 12:30:05 AM
I definitely do like to hear more form the Cypriotic Turin manscript
Q

Ensemble P.A.N. is always solid and this disc is no exception:
The Island of St. Hylarion: Music of Cyprus 1413-22 (1), New Albion 38

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000000R2Y.01_SL75_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 02, 2011, 02:30:53 AM
Quote from: chasmaniac on June 02, 2011, 02:22:54 AM
Ensemble P.A.N. is always solid and this disc is no exception:
The Island of St. Hylarion: Music of Cyprus 1413-22 (1), New Albion 38

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000000R2Y.01_SL75_.jpg)

Thanks, much appreciated! :)

Quote from: chasmaniac on June 01, 2011, 04:38:20 AM
This is from a Gramophone review of disc #1 from the set.

What do you make of this? Is it just a hangover from the old debate Christopher Page and company had about the vocalization of non-texted music? Aside from, and in my opinion more important than, the question of plausibility, how does it sound? Is it juicy? Is it sweet?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61u%2Bdn4Uk7L._SS500_.jpg)

The Agricola disc (which is disc 5) is one of the highlights of the set. So I agree with that review - a great disc. :) Definitely juicy, as for sweet - I generally do not associate that with the Huelgas Ensembles' style, wich is more on the clear-cut and earthy side.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on June 02, 2011, 02:34:53 AM
Correction noted. I'm really looking forward to hearing this set. Should arrive today, and if I can I'll relay its flavours myself as a supplement to your notes.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: haydnguy on June 02, 2011, 02:59:21 AM
I finished my CD 11 this morning:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41KT4GZAE6L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 02, 2011, 03:03:21 AM
Quote from: chasmaniac on June 02, 2011, 02:34:53 AM
Correction noted. I'm really looking forward to hearing this set. Should arrive today, and if I can I'll relay its flavours myself as a supplement to your notes.

Ah, excellent! :) You won't be dissapointed, I think. :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: haydnguy on June 03, 2011, 01:39:43 AM
Que, I just want to say how much I'm enjoying the information your posting. That Disk 3 info. was really something!! 8)

Today I will be on Disk 12:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410P8TVPN9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on June 04, 2011, 02:22:36 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on May 28, 2011, 11:49:25 PM
(http://cover7.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/15/1121915.jpg)  (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0886974784425.jpg)

Forward, Phoebus! In performance, late medieval music all too often melts into a shapeless puddle of New Age mood. Van Nevel isn't having that. By pushing tempos and stressing accents he gives back to this complex and layered music the contours it needs to distinguish itself from mere historical colouring. The last track, Se Galaas, is a tour de force of excited, rushing polyphony. A fantastic record.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 04, 2011, 11:08:37 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61kPvnwRKDL._SS500_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BXoO3q4vL._SS400_.jpg)


Utopia Triumphans, The Great Polyphony of the Renaissance
, Huelgas Ensemble, Paul van Nevel.

Thomas Tallis' famous Spem in Alium and other large scale multipart polyphonic works by Constanzo Porta, Josquin Desprez, Johannes Ockeghem, Pierre de Manchicourt, Giovanni Gabrieli and Alessandro Striggio.

This 4th disc of the set showcasing the heights of complex Renaissance polyphony has for a long time an hypnotic attraction for me - I listened to it over and over again for several mornings in a row. Music composed to impress and it so does! :) Amazing, amazing stuff, a jewel in the crown of this set.

Having a look at the reviews at Amazon US, I found that most of the feedback focused on the performance of Talis' Spem in Alium. Understandable since this is the piece that is best known, but it does neither justice to the rest of the music or the disc as a whole. As it happens in the Huelgas continental style the Tallis piece turns out more objective, "cooler" and darker sounding than in the ethereal style British performances. I also think the added sweetness and less earthy style of, for instance, La Chaplle du Roi under Alistair Dixon ultimately suits the piece better. But the story on this disc doesn't end there! The pieces by Porta, Josquin Desprez, Ockeghem, Manchicourt, Gabrieli and Striggio are as worthy as the Tallis piece and get the great performance they deserve. I leave you in the hands of an expert - Bruno Giordano, who knows his stuff - to tell the rest:

All praise and tribute to Paul van Nevel and the Huelgas Ensemble for this magnificent effort at recording the unrecordable! The result is inevitably a qualified triumph, a CD that is thrilling to hear and yet that doesn't consistently capture the 'greatness' of the music it contains. Six of the seven works recorded here were composed for massive forces of singers, by 16th C standards, but decidedly NOT for a large choir. The pieces by Thomas Tallis and Alessandro Striggio were composed in 40 separate polyphonic lines, to be sung by 40 separate voices, as they are performed on this occasion. All six pieces are effectively 'poly-choral' in various configurations:

Tallis/Spem in alium: eight 5-part choirs
Costanzo Porta/Sanctus & Agnus Dei: three 4-part choirs plus a detached cantus firmus
Josquin Deprez/Qui habitat: four six-part groups, not intended as separated choirs
Johannes Ockeghem/Deo gratias: four nine-part groups, not intended as separated choirs
Giovanni Gabrieli/Exaudi me domini: four 4-part choirs, distinctly separated
Striggio: ten 4-part choirs

Though one might assume that having so many more voices -- remember that the overwhelming majority of polyphonic motets and masses were composed to be sung in for-to-six lines with one or two voices per line -- would massively increase the "possibilities' of composition. Such is not the case. Given the overweening centrality of modal consonance in the 'harmonic' language of the Renaissance, the necessity of putting all those voices somewhere, of giving them a pitch to sing, seriously restricted the composers' horizontal freedom of melody-shaping and of rhythmic expression. In other words, when most chords are 'triadic', more and more voices will have to be landing on the same pitches, spread vertically. The effect can almost be predicted: monotonous grandeur! That is, to my ears, even in live performance, the effect of the famous Tallis 'Spem in alium'.

If much is lost in many-part polyphony, is anything gained? Yes, indeed, and composers of the later 16th Century -- Gabriel in particular -- became adept at exploiting the gain: space! dimension! direction! The Gabrieli "Exaudi me Domine" is easily the most successful composition qua music on this CD; it makes acoustic sense. But Gabrieli and others of his generation wrote for acoustic situations radically unlike the modern concert hall; in a symphony hall, all ears are funneled toward a focus point at the conductor's desk. In a cathedral, the normal venue for hearing polychoral polyphony, the choirs would have been stationed at the four corners of the listener's consciousness. Directionality would have been an essential element of the music. Given the laws of sound propagation, however, 'volume' and 'resonance' would also have depended on the listener's particular acoustic vantage point. And since sound travels at a sluggish speed through air, there would have been split-second-but-audible discrepancies in the perceived attacks of pitches. The greatest and most insightful composers of the era would not have ignored such matters; instead they would have, and did, make the acoustic anomalies integral parts of the music. Perhaps it's clear now why I regard this repertoire as 'unrecordable' -- in practical terms, that is, for reproduction through the two-to-five speakers, however fine, in your home theater qua living room, however grandiose.

The two motets by Ockeghem and Deprez, generations younger than Gabrieli, are nonetheless quite spectacular. Spine-tingling, hypnotic, almost psychedelic in effect, like LSD in the abandoned abbey by moonlight. Both composers chose to make the most of the monotone, the insistent tonic drone, the bell-like tolling of the canon. Ockeghem wasn't fond of canonic effects, by the way, and it seems to me very unlikely that this piece is really his work, but it's quite a fine piece, whoever wrote it.
[...] [Bruno Giordano on Amazon.com] complete review (http://www.amazon.com/Utopia-Triumphans-Huelgas-Ensemble/product-reviews/B000002APL/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#RLPY9K9PU2525).

What a great and informative review! :o :)

The review in the Gramophone (http://www.gramophone.net/Issue/Page/April%201996/107/805257/Utopia+Triumphans+Huelgas+Ensemble+I+Paul+van+Nevel.#header-logo) is less enthusiatical (despite the understated "a very enjoyable disc"), calling amongst other things in to question the Ockeghem and Josuin Desprez attributions.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 04, 2011, 11:48:39 PM
And lo and behold! :o

A work on a yet larger scale, and long reputed to be lost, is Striggio's mass composed in 40 parts, and which included a 60-voice setting of the final Agnus Dei. The work was recently unearthed by Berkeley musicologist Davitt Moroney and identified as a parody mass, Missa sopra Ecco sì beato giorno (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missa_sopra_Ecco_s%C3%AC_beato_giorno), and received its first modern performance at the Royal Albert Hall during the London Proms on 17 July 2007 by the BBC Singers and The Tallis Scholars conducted by Moroney. This work was most likely composed in 1565/6, and carried by Striggio on a journey across Europe in late winter and spring 1567, for performances at Mantua, Munich and Paris.[3] The first commercial recording of the Mass, by the British group I Fagiolini, was released in March 2011.

[asin]B004EQ1424[/asin]

Interesting to see one of the "majors" being back at the forefront in the Early Music niche.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on June 05, 2011, 05:17:15 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on June 04, 2011, 11:48:39 PM
And lo and behold! :o

A work on a yet larger scale, and long reputed to be lost, is Striggio's mass composed in 40 parts, and which included a 60-voice setting of the final Agnus Dei. The work was recently unearthed by Berkeley musicologist Davitt Moroney and identified as a parody mass, Missa sopra Ecco sì beato giorno (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missa_sopra_Ecco_s%C3%AC_beato_giorno), and received its first modern performance at the Royal Albert Hall during the London Proms on 17 July 2007 by the BBC Singers and The Tallis Scholars conducted by Moroney. This work was most likely composed in 1565/6, and carried by Striggio on a journey across Europe in late winter and spring 1567, for performances at Mantua, Munich and Paris.[3] The first commercial recording of the Mass, by the British group I Fagiolini, was released in March 2011.

[asin]B004EQ1424[/asin]

Interesting to see one of the "majors" being back at the forefront in the Early Music niche.

Q

Q,  Thanks for the posting and this CD is now on my shopping list ...   :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on June 05, 2011, 07:36:32 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on June 05, 2011, 05:17:15 AM
Q,  Thanks for the posting and this CD is now on my shopping list ...   :)

I did you one better.  I ordered it last night as part of an order from Arkivmusic (they have it on sale). 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 05, 2011, 08:22:32 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on June 05, 2011, 05:17:15 AM
Q,  Thanks for the posting and this CD is now on my shopping list ...   :)

Quote from: kishnevi on June 05, 2011, 07:36:32 AM
I did you one better.  I ordered it last night as part of an order from Arkivmusic (they have it on sale). 

Guys, please let uys know how it is. :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on June 09, 2011, 06:03:44 AM
Still working my way through the Huelgas box, but this arrived yesterday and I really liked it. Review from classicalnet.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MrOP4Ut3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Orlando di Lasso (1532-1594), Lassus, was the most widely-respected composer of his age. His output ranges over a wide spectrum of styles and genres – from the demotic and downright "lowly" chansons and Lieder through both secular and sacred madrigals and court music, to highly refined masses and liturgical compositions. All these forms of Lasso's music share the quality of an almost naîve joie de vivre; yet Lassus never descended to the vulgar, or ran the risk of pomposity or undue piety. Bonjour mon Cœur is a collection of what the note which accompanies the CD calls "Entertainment music of substance" by Lassus and nearly a dozen of his contemporaries... some well known, like Adrian Willaert (1490-1562); others more obscure and unrepresented elsewhere in the current catalog, like Jean de Castro (c.1540-c.1600).

Not that the teeth are in any way drawn from this music – at least not in these spirited and at the same time authoritative interpretations of Capilla Flamenca. There is a nice mix: there are gaiety, movement and elegance. And grace: the way the ensemble conveys all the emotions of the music stops well short of punchiness. Equally, they perform each work with sensitivity and style, never in any staid way.

Many of the pieces here presented are variations, "imitations", "emulations", "parodies" or "contrafacts" of works originally conceived (or indeed perhaps themselves originally borrowed) by Lassus and his contemporaries. The music remained, but a – usually sacred – text replaced a – usually secular – one. It's still hard for a post-Romantic mind to appreciate just how acceptable, how lauded even, this practice was. The CD is in fact centered around the particularly refined chanson by Ronsard, Bonjour mon Cœur. It should also be enjoyed for the lyrical beauty of the songs, which Capilla Flamenca perform with as much gravity and gentility as wit. Indeed, this is an excellent assembly of pieces illustrating the ways in which Renaissance songs dealt with love.

The way in which Capilla Flamenca expose, rather than completely sink themselves into, the songs on the CD is never either didactic or doctrinaire. Their approach comes across as well thought-out: their decision to divide the selection into four groupings corresponding to times of day (in keeping with the spirit of Bonjour mon Cœur) should better provide the listener with a framework for reacting to love's many attendant emotions... pain, exhilaration, hope, despair etc. than would a random sequence. Love awakes in the morning, becomes "exuberant" in the afternoon, eternal in the evening (all six pieces in this section are Lassus') and sleeps at night. On the whole, there are more slower and implicitly reflective works here than there are upbeat ones.

So, it's clear that great care has gone into conceiving, performing and producing this exemplary CD. Capilla Flamenca and Dirk Snellings, its director who also sings bass, are to be congratulated. The result is both entertaining and substantial. The variety of music is stimulating, and is enhanced when you know something of this contextualization. The standard of interpretation itself is very high. Unless every composer here is familiar to you, it's likely that you'll find new favorites. And, although just half the works are by Lassus himself, Bonjour mon Cœur is a good introduction to his work and the genres at which he was so expert and which he could turn to such good account.

The acoustic is close and intimate – surely the right way to present this repertoire... the plucked, wind and stringed instruments have presence and make an appropriate contribution. The "Digipak" has notes in Flemish, French, German and English – and has the texts in their original language and in translations where necessary (the songs are variously in Flemish, French, German). There is a detailed track listing, and an image of a very stern Lassus which somehow conveys his stature, as well as a photograph of the nine-person Capilla Flamenca. This is a more than merely pleasant recital. It's informative, representative of the genres whose music it contains, very persuasively performed and makes an excellent introduction to the accompanied vocal music in the sixteenth century of which Lassus was such an accomplished, imaginative and impeccably polished exponent. Recommended.

Copyright © 2010, Mark Sealey.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: haydnguy on June 09, 2011, 11:01:03 AM
Quote from: kishnevi on June 05, 2011, 07:36:32 AM
I did you one better.  I ordered it last night as part of an order from Arkivmusic (they have it on sale).

How was the "Mass In 40 Parts" CD? I have it on my Want List.

EDIT: Thread Duty: I'm still listening to CD 13 and am just amazed by this music.  8)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on June 09, 2011, 01:13:23 PM
Quote from: haydnguy on June 09, 2011, 11:01:03 AM
How was the "Mass In 40 Parts" CD? I have it on my Want List.

EDIT: Thread Duty: I'm still listening to CD 13 and am just amazed by this music.  8)

It arrived today, and I just finished listening to it before going online.
Overall, it's a good performance,  but  I would like to hear a purely vocal performance to get a better grip on the mass.   The performances here are a mix of voice and instruments, which allows you to follow the musical lines better than you might in a purely vocal version, but the effect of course is different from a pure a capella performance.  The overall effect to my ears is to make it sort of Gabrieli fifty years beforehand.  The madrigals are good, and  indicate that a full CD devoted to Striggio's secular music would be a worthwhile project--a good deal of it was apparently published in his lifetime, so the prospective Striggio singer would be tracing his way through 16th century publications and not manuscripts scattered who knows where (unlike the manuscript for the mass, which was apparently stuck in a Paris library for 350 years before Davitt Moroney noticed what it was).  The final track is Tallis' Spem in alium, and the mix of instruments again makes it an interesting performance--a good alternative to the usual suspects but not probably a first choice.

Definitely bears rehearing, and I don't think you should hesitate over pulling the trigger for it.

There's a DVD with surround sound files of everything except the madrigals and a 13 minute documentary on the making of the recording, but I'll wait on that. 

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on June 09, 2011, 01:31:31 PM
I wanted to put all of my "early music" cds together and not have them spread out by composers, especially in light that many have various composers.  My wife got me these a few years back to help me locate composers more easily:

(http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/2/0/0/83/f/AAAAAnTmbsYAAAAAAIP6Jg.jpg?v=1194024525000)

However, I do not want my "early music" cds streamed in with my "e" composers, so I looked to see what letters I had not used and decided to use my letter "Q" one in a tip of my fedora to out very own  ~ Que ~.  :)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on June 09, 2011, 05:58:53 PM
Quote from: kishnevi on June 05, 2011, 07:36:32 AM
I did you one better.  I ordered it last night as part of an order from Arkivmusic (they have it on sale).

I don't see any need to rush out to get the CD, not that it will be OOP soon ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: haydnguy on June 10, 2011, 05:28:16 PM
Another fine disk by Paul Van Nevel and Huelgas-Ensemble

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511bMbTuDrL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 11, 2011, 12:36:05 AM
I see you started exploring outside of the box, David! :)  How is that one? :)


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61cBkHr5U4L.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BXoO3q4vL._SS400_.jpg)

Next to the 5th disc that gave the set its name: A Secret Labyrinth, with works by Franco-Flemish composer Alexander Agricola (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Agricola) (Ackerman) (1446-1506). Agricola was one of the leading composers of the Josquin generation, his career led him to most of the countries of Western Europe. He worked at the French royal court and Italy. A interesting blurb describing his music:

Agricola's music was first transmitted in quantity in the 1490s. His most characteristic works are his songs and secular instrumental pieces, with over 80 surviving. They are overwhelmingly in three parts, and frequently quote songs by other composers, often in oblique fashion. Agricola's series of instrumental variations on De tous biens plaine is a particularly conspicuous example of his flair for variety and ornamental figuration. Most of Agricola's motets, of which he wrote over two dozen, are in a compact and straightforward style. The succinct three-voice Si dedero was the most-copied work of its generation, as well as a popular model for other settings. Agricola's stature was consummated with Petrucci's publication of a dedicated volume of his masses in 1504, and it is in his eight mass cycles that Agricola's unusual sense for counterpoint shows most clearly. His Missa In minen sin is one of the largest cycles of the era, a virtual encyclopedia of motivic variation. Agricola did not show the concern for text championed by Josquin, nor the feel for open textures pioneered by Obrecht. His counterpoint is extremely dense, with a fantastical feeling developing upon the "irrationality" of Ockeghem's designs. Agricola's larger settings are consequently some of the most intricate and inventive of the era, combining an abundance of contrapuntal ideas with a seemingly intentional arbitrariness into a web of shifting musical connections.

This disc is my first acquaintance with this composer. I highlighted the last sentences above, since that was exactly what struck me about Agricola's music: the ingenuity and elaborateness. One of the most interesting discs in the set. Agricola's music is quite distinctive IMO. As ever I would recommend Bruno Giordano's review on Amazon US (http://www.amazon.com/Alexander-Agricola-Labyrinth-Huelgas-Ensemble/product-reviews/B000026BUG/ref=pr_all_summary_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1). I want to hear more! :)

Much on Agricola points to his masses end the Missa in myne zyn is mentioned a lot. As it happens a new recording (http://www.capilla.be/EN/In_myne_zyn__ALEXANDER_AGRICOLA-discografie-41.php) has recently been issued, mentioned by several members, like Drasko and new erato. Anyone who can give feedback on that recording yet? :) :)

(http://cover7.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/86/1632686.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on June 11, 2011, 12:45:28 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on June 11, 2011, 12:36:05 AM
As it happens a new recording (http://www.capilla.be/EN/In_myne_zyn__ALEXANDER_AGRICOLA-discografie-41.php) has recently been issued, mentioned by serveral members, like Drasko and new erato. Anyone who can give feedback on that recording yet? :) :)

(http://cover7.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/86/1632686.jpg)

Q
I don't know if you want comments from others than me, but once again, this is quality on all counts.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 11, 2011, 12:48:09 AM
Quote from: The new erato on June 11, 2011, 12:45:28 AM
I don't know if you want comments from others than me, but once again, this is quality on all counts.

Thanks! :) It's on the wishlist then.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on June 11, 2011, 12:49:40 AM
It's on top of my wishlist but haven't bought it yet. If/when I eventually do, will post comments.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on June 11, 2011, 05:59:02 AM
(http://cover7.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/86/1632686.jpg)

What Erato said....buy with confidence.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on June 11, 2011, 06:12:35 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on June 11, 2011, 12:48:09 AM
Thanks! :) It's on the wishlist then.

Q

And that wishlist never gets shorter ...     ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on June 11, 2011, 07:58:34 AM
If Cavalli counts as early, I'm listening
to the new Artemisia on Glossa, and it's minblowingly goog!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on June 11, 2011, 09:05:05 AM
Quote from: The new erato on June 11, 2011, 07:58:34 AM
If Cavalli counts as early, I'm listening
to the new Artemisia on Glossa, and it's minblowingly goog!

Great question.  What are the general dates (I am sure that there is PLENTY of grey area) for "early" music?  Does it end post Monteverdi?

A link to that one please, Erato.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on June 11, 2011, 09:07:00 AM
Quote from: Bogey on June 11, 2011, 09:05:05 AM
Great question.  What are the general dates (I am sure that there is PLENTY of grey area) for "early" music?  Does it end post Monteverdi?

A link to that one please, Erato.

For me, any works composed prior to 1600 ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on June 11, 2011, 09:13:53 AM
Personally I wouldn't count it as early music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 12, 2011, 12:18:06 AM
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/89/b2/3f6c828fd7a05cc148954110.L.jpg)  (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0886974784425.jpg)

What a feast is this set! :)

CD6 with secular and sacred works by another Flemish composer from the Franco-Flemish school: Matthaeus Pipelare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthaeus_Pipelare) (c.1450-c.1515).

A short blurb: Matthaeus Pipelare was a Renaissance-era composer of vocal music in both the sacred and secular realms. He wrote no instrumental works, though he likely played several musical instruments. He is highly regarded by musicologists because of his versatile style: Pipelare was adept at writing both polyphonic and homophonic works and had a knowing grasp of complex structures. He also divulged a strong talent for melody and must be regarded as among the finest composers of his day even if, in the end, he ranks a rung or so below Josquin Desprez (1440 - 1521) and Johannes Ockeghem (1450 - 1495).[Robert Cummings]

What to say about the disc other than I absolutely love this kind of music! :) And Pipelare's music is of great quality. Despite the fact that much was lost during WWII  :-\ eleven masses survived! But where are they? ??? Thanks to Van Nevel at least this composer gets the exposure he deserves, but as far as the discography on Pipelare: apart from few bits on song collections - this is it! :o

Performances are exquisite: the mass L'homme armé with its deep basses - absolutely wonderfull. This recording won the 1998 Cannes Classical Award for Best Choral Music.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: rickardg on June 12, 2011, 12:26:30 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on June 12, 2011, 12:18:06 AM

What a feast is this set!

I just got it and I agree completely (at least for the first few discs I've heard). Only one small quibble --- no notes, and this for repertoire that isn't exactly mainstream. That's why I really enjoy your series of posts here, Que.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on June 12, 2011, 05:40:54 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on June 12, 2011, 12:18:06 AM
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/89/b2/3f6c828fd7a05cc148954110.L.jpg)  (http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0886974784425.jpg)

I agree, especially with regard to the basses. But there's something else here. This music's imitative aspect is made particularly clear, the voices chasing each other, locking and unlocking, in a manner that is almost (dare I say it?) sexual. Great record.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 13, 2011, 01:35:22 AM
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/4c/59/cf96319f8da0c714f3fd6110.L.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BXoO3q4vL._SS400_.jpg)

Back to this marvelous set with a great sample of the riches of Early Music.
Now CD7 with the 12-voice "Missa Et ecce terrae motus" (the "Earthquake Mass") by Antoine Brumel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_Brumel) (c.1460 - c.1520), a French member of the Franco-Flemish School and pupil of Josquin Desprez. Extensive notes by Peter Philips on the Missa are found HERE (http://www.gimell.com/recording-Antoine-Brumel---Missa-Et-ecce-terrae-motus-The-Earthquake-Mass-.aspx).

The review from Gramphone:
Brumel's 12-part Mass Et ecce terrae mains is a remarkable work, well worth reviving for modern performers and listeners. Paul van Nevel deserves a vote of thanks for recognizing its value, for restoring what was missing in the first Agnus Del and for conducting this splendid performance. It is remarkable, also, that in the sixteenth century, when it was usual to perform exclusively contemporary music, this Mass was recognized for its worth by no less a musician than Lassus. Having ordered a copy of it to be made for performance at the Bavarian Court—and that must have been some 50 years after Brumel's death—Lassus had the names of his singers, many of whom can be identified, inscribed in his massive score; and from this evidence it seems clear that he himself sang with the second tenors. It is a work of great magnificence and one can well imagine the tremendous impression it must have made during a solemn Easter liturgy in the private chapel of a princely household.

The Huelgas Ensemble are expert in sustaining the long flowing lines of the counterpoint, with their rippling rhythms rising and falling like small waves on the surface of an ocean. The extremely slow-moving harmony is carefully managed, so as rarely, if ever, to sound tedious. The dynamics are well under control, and the soft, reedy tonequality is fairly evenly matched throughout the 12 vocal parts, which is quite an achievement.

Paul van Nevel deserves a second vote of thanks for his other 'premiere', the sequence Dies irae from Brumel's Requiem Mass, and for his imaginative interpretation of the alternatim scheme: in addition to the polyphony there are slow, semimetrical chant sections, solemn brass sections and fauxbourdons. I particularly enjoyed the viol-like quality of the voices in the quiet closing phrases of the sequence. Highly recommended. Gramophone [5/1991]


Van Nevel premiered this work on disc, but the Tallis Scholars and the Ensemble Clément Janequin followed suit! :o :)

The subsequent Gramophone review of the recording of the Tallis Scholars tells us more about both recordings: [on the Tallis:] the overall effect is one of controlled, if somewhat remote, precision and perfection—the feeling of remoteness arising, perhaps, from my having heard some months ago, the "World Premier" performance of this newly-restored Mass by the Huelgas Ensemble under Paul van Nevel. There is an infectious warmth and sense of involvement in the singing of the Belgian group. [...] The Tallis Scholars sing a semitone higher than the written pitch, which is that chosen by the Huelgas Ensemble. Van Nevel cultivates a rich reedy vocal quality and the lower pitch has the advantage of encouraging deeper and darker sonorities; though the sound is more opaque, lacking the clarity of The Tallis Scholars. Where the two choirs differ most, however, is in the last movement, the Agnus Dei. The Munich source, used by both choirs, is deficient at this point and some reconstruction is needed. Van Nevel has supplied an ingenious canonic solution to the first (and third) Agnus Dei, with its "virtuosic and turbulent" progression of mensural changes. He has, moreover, replaced the missing Agnus Dei II by a section from an independent Danish source, a section rejected by Peter Phillips and Francis Knights on the grounds that it was scored for six voices only and voices using different ranges from those in the rest of the Mass. The net result is that the two choirs present what amounts to two completely different final movements.

I have the version by the Ensemble Clément Janequin and used it for direct comparison:

[asin]B00009EPFF[/asin]

I'm quoting excerpts from the review in Gramophone again, since its very instructive in this case as well:

[...]Dominique Visse likes to linger over particular passages and bring Out some of the inside details. This is most welcome, because the two recordings of the cycle (Paul Van Nevel in 1990 and Peter Phillips in 1992) listed above tend to keep a steady tempo and charge past much of the lovely inner writing Visse makes more audible. Especially in the 'Benedictus' and the Agnus Dci, he reveals new glories in this enormously complicated score. His flexibility of tempo also makes it possible for the singers to give more value to the texts, which is again a welcome change. [...] Whereas Phillips had 24 voices and no instruments, and Van Nevel had four instruments, Visse has 12 voices and 12 instruments. Whether Brumel is likely to have had such forces around 1500 seems unlikely (though the jury is still out on these matters), but it does bring certain advantages: it makes it possible for Visse to pitch the whole thing fairly low (a tone below modern concert pitch) without losing clarity on the crucial bottom lines and to have men singing the top line, led of course by his own marvellously vibrant and expressive singing. The result has a slightly nasal quality that is not at all in line with what we expect here

I've highlighted the IMO important characteristics of the recording. I liked the Ensemble Clément Janequin when I bought it, though it never made the impact the Van Nevel did. It sounds quite different. And now hearing them next to each other, there is really no contest. The decision of Dominique Visse to use more (instrumental) forces really does not work and amounts to some additional fanfare that blures the choral lines and disturbes the balance between the different movements. Also the "flexibility of tempo" is a failure, causing the music to sound disjointed with a blurry effect of intensity coming and going. Instead Van Nevel slowly builds a carefully structured and balanced musical cathedral with sustaining and increasing musical and emotional intensity. The "slightly nasal quality" that is the result of men sining the top lines because of the downward pitching is rather more than "slightly" and enoyes me to no end... ::) To top it off the two partial reconstructions Van Nevel did do work very well. He is the clear winner here! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on June 13, 2011, 03:38:54 AM
I will try at whiles to post more items concerning Machaut. He deserves attention. For a start, here's Todd McComb's introduction and homage.

QuoteGuillaume de Machaut (d.1377) is one of the undisputed pinnacle geniuses of Western music, and the most famous composer of the Middle Ages. Today his four-voice Mass of Notre Dame is a textbook example for medieval counterpoint, and has served sufficiently to maintain his reputation across shifts in fashion. However Machaut's work is extensive, with his French songs & poetry dominating the fourteenth century by both their quality and volume. A series of carefully prepared illuminated manuscripts, undertaken for members of the French royalty, preserve his complete artistic output. Along with these major sources, various pieces are duplicated in scattered sources throughout Europe. His life and work are thus extremely well-preserved for the period, and his position as the most distinguished composer of the century has never wavered.

Machaut was apparently born in the vicinity of Rheims in Champagne, around the year 1300. He is first known as the secretary of John of Luxembourg in 1323, and used the position to travel extensively for various battles and political events. In approximately 1340, Machaut returned to Rheims to take up the position of canon (he had previously been an absentee office-holder) together with his brother Jean. However, he continued to serve John of Luxembourg until the latter's death at Crécy in 1346, and then served his daughter Bonne, who appears in the Remède de Fortune. The remainder of the fourteenth century was an epic of wars and plagues, and one of the few periods in which the population of Europe declined, but Machaut's reputation continued to rise. He went on to serve two kings of France, and was charged with a task as important as accompanying hostages during the English war. In 1361 the Dauphine was received in Machaut's quarters, an exceptional event. By the 1370s Machaut's name was associated with Pierre de Lusignan, King of Cyprus, thus establishing his fame nearly as far as Asia.

Machaut is frequently portrayed today as an avant garde composer, especially because of his position with regard to the early Ars Nova (a new, more detailed rhythmic notation), but one must also emphasize the masterful continuity with which he employed established forms. While using the same basic formats, he made subtle changes to meter and rhyme scheme, allowing for more personal touches and a more dramatic presentation. Indeed, Machaut's poetry is one of the most impressive French outputs of the medieval era, serving as an example even for Chaucer. The theme of courtly love dominates his writing, becoming heavily symbolized in the guises of such characters as Fortune & Hope, and the personal dramas in which they act. Machaut's poetic output, and by extension the subset of texts he chose to set to music, is both personal and ritualized, lending it a timeless quality. Some of the love themes date to Ovid and beyond, from whom they had been elaborated first by the troubadours of Provence and then by the northern trouvères, and so it is truly a classical tradition to which they belong.

Machaut marks the end of the lineage of the trouvères, and with it the development of the monophonic art song in the West. This aspect of his work is found in the virelais and especially the lengthy lais. He also acted decisively to refine the emerging polyphonic song forms ballade & rondeau, and these were to become the dominant fixed forms for the following generations. What Machaut achieved so eloquently is an idiomatic and natural combination of words with music, forcefully compelling in its lyrical grace and rhythmic sophistication. His songs are immediately enjoyable, because he was able to shape the smallest melodic nuances as well as to conceive of forms on a large scale. The latter is reflected in his poetic-musical creations Le Remède de Fortune and Le Veoir Dit, as well as in his Messe de Notre Dame. One must not lose sight of Machaut's position within the sweep of medieval history, as his great "multimedia" productions had clear precedents in the Roman de la Rose and especially the Roman de Fauvel. It is Machaut's ability to unite cogent and elegant melodic thinking with the new rhythmic possibilities of the Ars Nova which ultimately makes his musical reputation.

Although he wrote music for more than one hundred of his French poems, and even for half a dozen motets in Latin, Machaut remains best-known for his Mass of Notre Dame. This mass was written as part of the commemoration of the Virgin endowed by the Machaut brothers at Rheims, and was intended for performance in a smaller setting by specialized soloists. The most striking aspect of the piece is not simply the high quality of the contrapuntal writing, but the architectural unity of the Ordinary sections as well. Machaut's mass is not the earliest surviving mass cycle (there are two which predate it), but it is the earliest by a single composer and indeed the earliest to display this degree of unity. While the chants used as cantus firmus do vary, opening gestures and motivic figures are used to confirm the cyclical nature of the work. Technique of this magnitude is frequently offered as evidence of Machaut's prescience, given the prominence of such forms a hundred or two hundred years later, but the musical quality of his cycle can be appreciated on its own terms. Indeed, the same can be said for Machaut's oeuvre as a whole. ~ Todd McComb, 4/98
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on June 21, 2011, 03:39:20 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on June 04, 2011, 11:08:37 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61kPvnwRKDL._SS500_.jpg)  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BXoO3q4vL._SS400_.jpg)

As I have the box and thus lack this album's notes, I must ask whether the Desprez and Ockeghem tracks are related. Is the second based on the first? Together, they sound a diptych that could have been written yesterday.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Todd on June 27, 2011, 07:17:20 AM
(http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/imgs/s300x300/4779747.jpg)


Looks like Archiv will release a big ol' honkin' box of works by Victoria this summer.  I'm thinking these are new recordings as Michael Noone doesn't appear to have recorded for Archiv before, though I could be wrong about that.  (Perhaps it's a reissue of micro-label recordings, for instance.)  Do I need ten discs of Victoria's music all at once?  Hmm . . .
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: jlaurson on June 27, 2011, 08:08:56 AM
Quote from: Todd on June 27, 2011, 07:17:20 AM
(http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/imgs/s300x300/4779747.jpg)

Do I need ten discs of Victoria's music all at once?  Hmm . . .

No. Of course not. But is that really the question and/or issue that would/will keep you from purchasing it?

That said, Victoria is absolute top-of-the-line Renaissance music... and any musical omnivore will want at least some T.L.d.Victoria.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Todd on June 27, 2011, 08:13:42 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on June 27, 2011, 08:08:56 AM
No. Of course not. But is that really the question and/or issue that would/will keep you from purchasing it?

That said, Victoria is absolute top-of-the-line Renaissance music... and any musical omnivore will want at least some T.L.d.Victoria.



Oh, I do have some, and I rather enjoy Victoria (though I enjoy Morales even more).  Do I need 10 more discs, though?  Well, if the price is right, I'm leaning toward 'yes' . . . 

(Michael Noone and company are rather good in this arena, so that helps matters a bit.)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 27, 2011, 12:03:34 PM
Quote from: Todd on June 27, 2011, 07:17:20 AM
(http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/imgs/s300x300/4779747.jpg)


Looks like Archiv will release a big ol' honkin' box of works by Victoria this summer.  I'm thinking these are new recordings as Michael Noone doesn't appear to have recorded for Archiv before, though I could be wrong about that.  (Perhaps it's a reissue of micro-label recordings, for instance.)  Do I need ten discs of Victoria's music all at once?  Hmm . . .

Very interesting! :) Noone and his ensemble recorded for Glossa before. As it turns out, these will not be reissues but new recordings:

QuoteIn celebration of our 10th birthday and the 400th anniversary of the death of the finest of Spain's Renaissance composers, Ensemble Plus Ultra is releasing a series of ten CDs of the works of Tomás Luis de Victoria (c. 1548—1611). With an emphasis on works composed by Victoria in Madrid, and versions of works that have never before been recorded, the project features Andrés Cea Galan playing the historic organs of Lerma and Tordesillas, and collaborations with Spanish plainsong specialists Schola Antiqua (dir. Juan Carlos Asensio) and the specialist historical wind players of His Majesty Sagbutts & Cornetts (dir. Jeremy West).

The series of recordings is a project of the Fundación Caja Madrid, and the CDs will appear on the DGG Archiv label.

MORE HERE (http://www.ensembleplusultra.com/victoria.htm)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on June 28, 2011, 02:25:44 AM
Fine set of madrigals here. Less moaning and exclaiming than sometimes in this repertory, solid 5-part music.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410XF496K7L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 28, 2011, 08:42:18 AM
Quote from: chasmaniac on June 21, 2011, 03:39:20 AM
As I have the box and thus lack this album's notes, I must ask whether the Desprez and Ockeghem tracks are related. Is the second based on the first? Together, they sound a diptych that could have been written yesterday.

I can't tell. The authorship of either piece is allegedly doubtfull. I'm not very familair with Ockeghem, but on the Desprez I'm inclined to go along wit that.

Still, whoever composed them did a great job IMO. :)

Quote from: chasmaniac on June 28, 2011, 02:25:44 AM
Fine set of madrigals here. Less moaning and exclaiming than sometimes in this repertory, solid 5-part music.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410XF496K7L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

He seems to be interesting Italian based (Franco-)Flemish composer! :) (Wiki on Giaches de Wert (1535 – 1596) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giaches_de_Wert)) And quite productive too.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on June 28, 2011, 09:37:05 AM
Quote from: chasmaniac on June 21, 2011, 03:39:20 AM
As I have the box and thus lack this album's notes, I must ask whether the Desprez and Ockeghem tracks are related. Is the second based on the first? Together, they sound a diptych that could have been written yesterday.

Booklet doesn't mention any particular relation between the two pieces.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on July 03, 2011, 12:07:40 AM
(http://cover7.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/13/1223213.jpg)

A terrific disc that should have been included in the Secret Labyrinth set. Besides the performances, the value and significance of this disc is first and foremost due to the music and its composer. Matteo da Pergia aka Mattheus de Perusio wrote as an Italian composer in late Ars Nova/ Ars Subtilior style. (An interesting read about the use of Ars Nova in Italy HERE (http://www.hoasm.org/IIIA/ArsNovaItaly.html))

An introduction on the composer:
Italian composer from the beginning of the 15th century, deceased problably in the first days of January 1418. Very little is known of his life. Surely, a native from Perugia, he seems to have made most of his career at the service of Pietro Filargos Candia (1340-1410), archbishop of Milan since 1402 and promoted to cardinal in 1405. Pietro had studied in Paris, before teaching theology at the Sorbonne; he was an enthusiastic francophile, something which in part explains the predominance of french style in Matteo's music. In 1406, Matteo accompanies Pietro to Pistoia and Bologne, to be elected anti-pope: Alexander V. He remains in Milan to the service of Pietro's successor, John XXIII, returning to Milan after the deposition of the later in 1414. Matteo becomes then the first magister capellæ — chapel master — of the Milan Cathedral, by the time still under construction.

Matteo bequeathed us a significant number of works, all contained in the Modena manuscript, which presumably was written under his guidance. His works are both religious and profanes. He is a composer midway between the italian and french tradition, employing techniques from both. His music crosses not only geographical borders, but also temporal borders: some works are written in a style reminiscent of the 14th century; other incorporate the stylistic innovations of the 15th century, such as the greater attention given to the intelligibility of the text being sung, and a more harmonic conception of the polyphonic texture.


I'm very much into the quixotic Ars Subtilior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars_subtilior) and revelled in Van Nevel "Febus Avant!" disc (included in the box set and previously discussed HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg520221.html#msg520221) and HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg522924.html#msg522924).) My impression of Matteo da Perugia is that he was a brilliant composer who went is own way and was one of a kind. His music has a free, willful feel to it with unusual treatment of melody using rhythmic imperfections and quite edgy harmonies. A true original. Van Nevel, an idiosyncratic himself, is perfect for the job. :) My only regret is that thee is so little of Perugia's 30 surviving works available on record - the blooming Early Music bussiness has its work cut out! :o  8)

The disc has been OP for a while, but I noticed that there are still a few copies floating around. And perhaps Sony (France) will decide to do a reissue? ::)

The review from Gramophone:
QuoteMatteo da Perugia is one of the oddly neglected composers of the years around 1400. Though evidently Italian, he wrote largely in the French manner, even when setting Italian texts; so neither national tradition adopts him today. Until recently his music was known only from one manuscript and a related tiny fragment, so he was considered to have had no impact, though the discovery of two new manuscripts containing his work may call for a revision of that view. Most seriously, after the initial flurry of excitement when Willi Apel first published Perugia's astonishingly complicated music in 1950, scholars began to say there was nothing innovative about his music (though without being able to date any of it). But his known output of over 30 pieces is extraordinarily varied in style and inspiration: he seems to have tried everything, often with stunning success.

Paul Van Nevel's collection of nine pieces does ample justice to the variety of his output: French songs, Mass movements, motets and an Italian song; from the most chromatic and angular to the most harmonious; from the energetic to the gentle. As usual, he is occasionally headstrong in his choice of scoring, from the use of a female chorus in He/as April to transposing the middle stanza (only) of Puisque la mart up a fourth. But everything is done to serve the music, and everything is with an eye to revealing the wayward beauty of this fascinating composer. He helps you to hear inside the music. The sound is good and clear; the singers are excellent; and he contributes a characteristically challenging booklet-note that explains his approach. DF

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: haydnguy on July 03, 2011, 02:10:56 AM
Thanks for the heads up on the Huelgas Ensemble/Van Nevel disk. I'll put it on my "to buy" list.  8)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on July 03, 2011, 06:22:01 AM
Quote from: haydnguy on July 03, 2011, 02:10:56 AM
Thanks for the heads up on the Huelgas Ensemble/Van Nevel disk. I'll put it on my "to buy" list.  8)

Pretty soon, half the GMG members and their cousins will have this set ...    ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on July 10, 2011, 01:33:55 AM
Yet another Van Nevel disc... 8)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51iEakE5nvL._SS500_.jpg)  (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/CiprianoDeRore.jpg)

And another absolutely great disc one as well. Flemish Cipriano de Rore (1515-1565) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cipriano_de_Rore) was another composer from the Low Countries that ended up in Italy, influencing the development of the Italian Renaissance and early Baroque. In this case de Rore's influence was crucial to the later Italian madrigal tradition of Gesualdo and Monteverdi. The disc here focuses on a selection of motets and madrigal, including de Rore's masterpiece Missa Praeter rerum seriem. But I agree with Brun Giordano below, that all pieces have a similar style that reminds of the later madrigal tradition, although especially in the Missa de Rore's Franco-Flemish roots are very clear.

Characterizing de Rore as a composer I would say his combine a very highly developed technical style with a serious, sober undertone and a strong emotionally expressive - text orientated - yet intimate feel. Quite intense - an aspect Gesualdo later would take one step (or even two steps) further - not for casual listening. Yet de Rore balances this out with touching, very "human" moments - the opening love song for 8 voices Mon petit cueur is a good example.

De Rore was already during his life time an acclaimed composer and many of his works were published and preserved for prosperity. But like with Perusio: were are the recordings!?  :o We need books and books of madrigals of this guy! Seems like a good project for La Venexia when they're done with Gesualdo. :)

An excerpt from Bruno Giordano's raving Amazon review (http://www.amazon.com/Rore-Missa-Praeter-Rerum-Seriem/product-reviews/B00006O8P7/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#R3T2HJULJ4SJGK):
QuoteWhatever 'faint praise' or carping criticism I may have heaped on an occasional non-favorite from The Huelgas Ensemble must be totally discounted in listening to this recording of music by Cipriano de Rore (1516-1565). The Missa Praeter rerum seriem is a major monument of late Renaissance polyphony; the more often I listen to it, the more musically profound it seems to me. This performance of it by The Huelgas Ensemble is likewise a monument of choral singing in our times, easily surpassing its competition from The Tallis Scholars.

You'll have to take my word for that, because my interest here is to comment on the seven shorter pieces by Cipriano recorded here - one French chanson, two Latin motets, two Italian motets, and "Calami sonum ferentes", listed as a madrigal but in Latin. In musical point of fact, all seven pieces are fully 'madrigalesque' and shockingly, radically 'modern' for music written before Gesualdo or Monteverdi were born! If anyone ever tells you that 'modern' music began with Cipriano, don't argue! He/she may be right.

QuoteAs we usually experience with a perfectly matched ensemble of viols, the mixed voices of Paul Van Nevel's Huelgas-Ensemble roll out Cipriano de Rore's eight-part chanson Mon petit cueur like a plush, richly colored, deep-textured sonic carpet, one with no seams or flaws. This skillfully woven musical cloth offers the ear one sumptuous harmonic delight after another, as would a prized tapestry present similarly dazzling delights to the eye. This Flemish composer who spent most of his professional life in Italy (he died in 1565 at the age of 49) is yet another Renaissance figure of major importance whose work has remained largely unknown. Not only is he revered as a significant influence on composers such as Monteverdi (whose madrigals Alfred Einstein claims were "inconceivable without him"), but he is credited with successfully bringing together music and emotional expression in a way no one had done before.

If you wonder just what this means, listen to Mon petit cueur, or to the motet Plange quasi virgo, or the madrigal Mia benigna fortuna. All demonstrate the vital connection between human feeling and musical manifestation, where elements of sound--both of the words themselves and of various combinations of harmonies and textures--join with inflection and dynamic changes to create an overall mood far more compelling and deeply involving than a mere momentary sensation. In other words, there are no gimmicks or obvious, theatrical tricks at play. Rore's manner relies primarily on subtle and skillfully structured effects that grow from long melodic lines and underlying, rolling waves of harmony. Occasionally, as at the end of Mon petit cueur, a totally surprising chord gives our expectations a serious yet delightful jolt--and although this happens with some regularity throughout these pieces, we're never quite prepared for it.

The mass is a masterpiece, a stunning example of perfect proportion (overall and within movements), outstanding vocal writing, and ingenious use of varied textures and rhythmic shifts to control momentum and mood. The Huelgas-Ensemble has never been in better form, the voices vibrant and colorful, expressive in every context, from delicate and subtle (the madrigal Schiet'arbuscel) to profoundly meditative (the Agnus Dei of the mass) to more overtly dramatic (the madrigal Mia benigna fortuna). The music is uniformly excellent, and the ardent performances and ideal sonics pay it full and worthy tribute. Don't miss this--one of the year's more unusual and pleasant surprises. [4/5/2003] --David Vernier, ClassicsToday.com

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on July 25, 2011, 09:18:36 AM
This disc is fantastic!

(http://cdn.7static.com/static/img/sleeveart/00/007/843/0000784373_350.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on July 25, 2011, 10:37:53 PM
This new issue seems a must-have:

(https://secure.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/4779747.jpg)

TÓMAS LUIS DE VICTORIA

Sacred Works

Ensemble Plus Ultra

Michael Noone

CD1        Missa pro Victoria (1600); Missa pro Defunctis (1583); Psalms and Responsories
CD2        Lamentations of Jeremiah
CD3        MIssa Gaudeamus; Magnificat Octavi toni; Missa Ave maris stella
CD4        Missa de Beata Virgine; Motets: Vide speciosam, Gaude Maria virgo, Quam pulchra sunt
CD5        Missa Alma redemptoris Mater, Magnificat primi toni; Alma redemptoris Mater etc .
CD6        Missa O quam gloriosum, Christe redemptore omnium, Doctor bonus, Tibi Christe, etc.
CD7        Music  for the Easter Liturgy in Habsburg Madrid
CD8        Missa Ave Regina, motets and music for Vespers
CD9        Missa Salve and motets                               
CD 10     Motets and Hymns for the liturgical year

Universal Spain have, over recent years, been releasing new recordings of works by the Spanish Renaissance composer Tomás Luis de Victoria (1548–1611), who stands alongside Palestrina and Lassus as one of the greatest composers of his age. 

The recordings were made by  highly-regarded British Early Music group Ensemble Plus Ultra under Michael Noone ("a crack squad" –Early Music Today), who won critical acclaim for CDs of Morales and other Spanish composers on the Glossa label ("breathtakingly beautiful" – BBC Radio 3, CD Review).

Altogether, 10 CDs of Victoria's works have been released (the final two as recently as May 2011). Now we have seized the opportunity, in the year when we commemorate the 400th anniversary of Victoria's death (27 August), to bring all of these recordings together in a single box that forms a remarkable wide-ranging compendium of works mainly from the Madrid period of his life (1586–1611).

It is undoubtedly the largest collection available of Victoria's music, with over 90 works on the 10 CDs, including three masses and six Magnificats never previously recorded – as well as many of the favourite motets and masses of the Victoria canon.

These recordings have never before been available outside Spain. 

Deutsche Grammophon 10cds 4779747

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on July 25, 2011, 10:56:45 PM
Quote from: The new erato on July 25, 2011, 10:37:53 PM
This new issue seems a must-have:

(https://secure.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/4779747.jpg)

TÓMAS LUIS DE VICTORIA

Sacred Works

Ensemble Plus Ultra

Michael Noone

Indeed! :) Todd also spotted it a while ago (one page back).
What is new for me is that the recordings were issued in Spain before - how could I have missed that! :o

I have slight reservations about English ensembles in continental repertoire, but Noone and his ensemble seem to be the exception - their Guerrero Requiem is outstanding, as is their Morales "Assumption Mass". And a lot of Spanish performers involved in the project as well. Historic Spanish organs - sounds yummy. 8)

Some additional info from the Ensemble Plus Ultra (http://www.ensembleplusultra.com/victoria.htm) site:

Our series of ten CDs brings together a total of 42 musicians from more than five countries in recordings of more than 90 works by the greatest of the Spanish polyphonists. With the support of a team that included three recording producers and engineers, we spent more than 60 days in 2008 and 2009 recording more than 12 hours of music in such acoustically superb environments as the colegial church in Lerma, the iglesia de San Pedro in Tordesillas, and St Judes-on-the-hill in London.

In this exciting venture, we are joined by the specialist instrumentalists of His Majestys Sagbutts & Cornetts (dir. Jeremy West), Spanish plainsong specialists Schola Antiqua (dir. Juan Carlos Asensio) and renowned organist Andrés Cea Galan who plays the historic organs of Tordesillas and Lerma. The series of recordings is a project of the Fundación Caja Madrid, and the CDs will appear on the DGG Archiv label. The entire project was directed by Michael Noone.

Though we are more accustomed to associating Victoria with his native Ávila or his adopted Rome, he is in fact the composer who can be most closely be associated with Madrid. During the more than a quarter of a century that he lived in the Spanish capital, he published almost one half of his entire compositional output. For this reason, we have recorded almost all of the works that Victoria published in his landmark publication of 1600, the Missae, Magnificat, motecta, psalmi et alia quam plurima published by the royal printer, Juan de Flandes. In addition, we have recorded many works—or previously unedited versions of works—by Victoria that are found only in manuscripts, that have been specially edited from those manuscripts for this project, and that have never before been recorded. Highlights in this category include the nine lamentations that are preserved in a Sistine Chapel manuscript and the 12 works (including three masses and six magnificats) from a manuscript choirbook at Toledo cathedral. Other previously unrecorded masterworks include Bovicelli's extraordinary virtuosic arrangement of Victoria's Vadam et circuibo and a large number of 'alternatim' works featuring verses for organ, plainsong and wind instruments.


Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on July 26, 2011, 04:33:11 PM
Quote from: The new erato on July 25, 2011, 10:37:53 PM
This new issue seems a must-have:

(https://secure.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/4779747.jpg)


Just bookmarked the set on Amazon ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on August 31, 2011, 05:39:45 AM
A terrific bargain if you're into this band. I like 'em lots.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51v2WEKxcOL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Edited to add:

QuoteThe vocal ensemble Cantus Colln led by Konrad Junghänel is one of the most famous European ensembles of its kind with over 30 CD recordings. Cantus Colln has won numerous international awards and is noted for including compelling performances of musical rarities as well as groundbreaking interpretations of the "classics" of the baroque repertoire.

The set from Deutsche Harmonia Mundi features 10 compact discs that were formerly unavailable, these collectible titles are now available at a low price in high quality packaging with the original cover art.

1. Rosenmüller: Sacri Concerti
2. Knüpfer, Schelle, Kuhnau: Thomaskantoren vor Bach
3. Monteverdi: Madrigali Amorosi
4. Pachelbel, J.C. Bach, J.M. Bach: Motetten
5. Monteverdi: Vespro della beata vergine - part 1
6. Monteverdi: Vespro della beata vergine - part 2
7. Lasso: Prophetiae Sibyllarum
8. Schütz: Psalmen, Motetten und Konzerte - part 1
9. Schütz: Psalmen, Motetten und Konzerte - part 2
10. Lechner: Sprüche von Leben und Tod
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on September 07, 2011, 06:32:45 PM
I know there aren't that many recordings, but there seems to be more than one alternative, so--does anyone have a recommendation for recordings of Salamone (Shlomo) Rossi--especially the Hebrew psalm and liturgical settings (HaShirim Asher L'Shlomo)?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on September 08, 2011, 04:50:27 AM
For no particular reason:

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0007OQBWK.01_SL75_.jpg)

The first track, Salve flos Tusce gentis, might be my favourite recording of anything ever. And that after maybe a hundred listens.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on September 11, 2011, 12:28:41 AM
A brief note on this recording that coincidentally came my way:

(http://img.amazon.ca/images/I/51MAH0H452L._SS500_.jpg)

I think it helps to get musical bearings on this probably little known Spanish Renaissance composer by mentioning his connection to a well known reference point for Early Music lovers (or it should be! :)) in Early Iberian music: the musical collection of Misteri d'Elx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misteri_d'Elx). A collection to which Ginés Peréz de la Parra as choir master of the cathedral in Valencia contributed.

The music of the Office of the Dead consists in the complete collection of five vesper psalms with its own "Magnificat" and verse "Requiescant in pace", besides the first lesson "Parce mihi Domine" and two funeral motets by Peréz. All this music is preserved in the Valencia's Cathedral, and also in other archives, having been published in 1896 by Felip Pedrell. In addition, inserted between the psalms have been included two funeral motets of Ambrosio Cotes (1550?-1603) – successor of Pérez in the Valencia's cathedral - and Joan Baptista Comes (1582?-1643) – probable pupil and later chapel master of the Cathedral - and also a "Tiento de falsas" of Sebastián Aguilera de Heredia (1561-1627), a contemporary of Pérez.

Victoria Musicae led by Josep Ramón Gil-Tàrrega is a Spanish early music group based in Valencia. The group's primary area of activity is the performance of Spanish and in particular Valencian composers. José de Nebra (1702-1768), Ginés Pérez de la Parra (1548-1600), Joan Baptista Comes (1582-1643) and Ambrosio Cotes (c.1550-1603), and chapel masters of the Real Colegio del Corpus Christi in Valencia during the 17th Century.[6]

For me this is a very nice find: Peréz' style is simple and straight-forward yet artfully and intelligently crafted and balanced. What strikes me is the gentle, touching feel to the music. It is not by far as severe as can be expected from music from that period. Gil-Tàrrega and his ensemble do a nice job - it definitely has an unforced air of authenticity over it. The recording is OK, Vernier below rates it with an 7 - I have less issue with it. Recommended for those who want to explore the Spanish Renaissance further and like a different flavour.

This recording was previoudly issued on Ars Harmonica, now a subsidiary label of La Mà de Guido (http://www.lamadeguido.com/). David Vernier's review (8/7) on Classicstoday (http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=3660):

QuoteFor a variety of reasons--some purely musical, others related to circumstances of history--many perfectly fine composers of the Renaissance period have remained in virtual obscurity. One such is 16th-century Spanish composer Ginés Pérez, who achieved a certain stature in his home territory of Valencia but, as the liner notes point out, due to local inadequacies of music printing and the fact that he didn't travel beyond the region, his music was not widely disseminated. As this recording shows--these works have never before been recorded--Pérez was a highly competent master of contemporary liturgical form and style, setting texts such as the Salve Regina in easily flowing lines and sonorous harmonies.
In the music for the Office for the Dead, the major "work" on this program, Pérez employs varieties of vocal and instrumental combinations and builds his vocal textures with liberal use of homophonic structures. What's most striking is the solidity, the seeming inevitability of the harmonic progressions and the skilled voicing that imbues these works with bright, richly resonant sound. Psalm 120 and the Parce mihi, Domine in the Office of the Dead are excellent examples of this, but other instances abound, not least of which occur in the several purely instrumental sections (performed on shawm, sackbut, flute, cornett, organ). In its straightforward simplicity Pérez's Magnificat is as powerful and moving a setting as many I can think of that bear far more famous authorship.
The choir, part of the Spanish early-music group Victoria Musicae, has a refined ensemble technique and its well-balanced sound is captured in a slightly too bright, resonant acoustic that lets voices and instruments ring. These singers and their excellent instrumental partners are effective advocates and make a strong case for more attention to this unknown composer's work. All is not perfect: both singing and playing at times suffer from sagging intonation, and phrase endings aren't always ideally, uniformly shaped. But these are small lapses in otherwise strongly recommendable performances.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on September 14, 2011, 04:40:58 AM
.[asin]B004IXP5P0[/asin]

Words fail me.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on September 14, 2011, 09:17:25 AM
Quote from: chasmaniac on September 14, 2011, 04:40:58 AM
[asin]B004IXP5P0[/asin]

Words fail me.

That good? :) What pieces are on it?

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on September 14, 2011, 09:31:42 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on September 14, 2011, 09:17:25 AM
That good? :) What pieces are on it?
Q

All of Dufay's isorhythmic motets:

O sancte Sebastiane
Vasilissa ergo gaude/Concupivit rex decorum tuum
Rite maiorem Jacobi
Ecclesie militantis
Basalmus et munda cera
Supremum est mortalibus bonum
Nuper rosarum flores
Salve flos Tusce gentis
Fulgens iubar ecclesiae dei
Moribus et genere
O gemma lux
Apostolo glorioso
Magnanime gentis laudes


Classicstoday review:

QuoteModern ears have been subjected to a sound world so complex and chaotic--and just plain noisy--that it's impossible for us now to really appreciate the original contextual significance of works such as these 15th century motets of Guillaume Dufay. We can enjoy them on many levels and we can intellectually understand their importance, but when we hear these very complex rhythms, and harmonies that often have a strange, vacant quality, we can't erase from our memory the fact that we've heard Brahms and Ives and Stravinsky. But I picked those three composers because each owes something to Dufay and to others who wrote in ancient forms and styles, in this case the isorhythmic motet. Much like Bach's works were at the same time a summation and epitomization of the Baroque, so were these motets of Dufay in their way a final, ultimate statement regarding one of the more sophisticated musical forms of the Middle Ages. Simply put, the isorhythmic motet begins with a particular rhythmic formula or pattern that's applied to a melody in one or more voices and repeated several times throughout the piece. The structure can get quite complicated, especially if different rhythmic formulas are used for different voices, making for irregular patterns of repetition. Dufay was a master of this compositional technique and as you listen you can see why later composers looking for interesting new ideas would have found very fertile ground among pieces like these. Conductor Paul Van Nevel organizes the program chronologically so the careful listener can follow the gradual stylistic changes Dufay employed from first motet to last--a range of approximately 20 years. His singers and instrumentalists, the always intriguing, musically polished, and stylistically informed Huelgas Ensemble, just seem to revel in the music--somehow reaching back to that motorless, unplugged time where no sound was amplified or transmitted except by means of natural acoustics, where voices and instruments were commonly heard resonating from stone and wood. And we get that too, thanks to Harmonia Mundi's skillful miking in the suitably ancient, resonant space of l'Abbaye-aux-Dames.


--David Vernier
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Opus106 on September 23, 2011, 09:18:42 AM
Via a Gramophone newsletter:

QuoteTo celebrate 10 years of The Sixteen’s lively and successful record label, CORO, and to mark the launch of our new downloads site www.thesixteendigital.com we are delighted to offer you a FREE download of one of our most popular CDs - Venetian Treasures - featuring glorious Italian choral music.

http://the-sixteen.org.uk/page/3230
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on October 12, 2011, 10:22:19 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on October 12, 2011, 04:28:10 PM
(http://multimedia.fnac.com/multimedia/images_produits/ZoomPE/9/7/4/3760020170479.jpg)
How do you like this CD?  I bought the CD early in the year ...

I know! :) I think it makes interesting comparison with the ensemble's earlier recordings in the 1980's for Harmonic Records, later reissued on Cantus. There is fortunatley little overlap. This new effort won a Grand prix du disc and got a 10/10 at Classicstoday France. A decidedly less favourable review in BBC Magazine.

I think my sentiments are best summed up by Todd McComb on medieval.org, who named the recording Recording of the year 2004:

Dominique Vellard and Ensemble Gilles Binchois established a standard for Notre Dame polyphony with their two previous recordings from the 1980s & 1990s. Returning to this repertory in the 2000s, including a re-recording of Beata viscera, they continue to set standards.

The current recording adopts a more aggressive articulatory stance, and firmer diction. There is still an elegance to the phrasing & overall shaping, but any tentativeness is increasingly stripped away. The program itself is a good one, including some variety in form, starting with Perotin's massive Sederunt principes. Overall, including the programs, I cannot rate this disc as dramatically better than the earlier two, but it does represent a notable development of style. This remains pivotal repertory for Western music.


I think the new recording is harder to get into than the earlier recordings, which I still love and are not surpassed by the new one. But the new recording has less emphasis on the longer lines and more emphasis on details and nuances of articulation and phrasing. Beautifully sung. The effect is less shock and awe, more intimate but needs as a consequence more attentiveness when listening. A touch slower, less pressed as well. Could sound tiresome and/or underwhelming to some ears.

It's all a matter of taste. But it's clear in what direction Vellard is going: less "high cathedrals" more  monastic IMO.

For a first acquintance with the Notre Dame School, I would still recommend the earlier recording:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41A2HkUAVwL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on October 15, 2011, 12:05:33 AM
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/02/ciu/ea/c0/c79f012912a0cfdb570ce110.L.jpg)

A disc that I picked up due to Amazon's Bruno Giordano's mentioning the German group Stimmwerck (http://www.stimmwerck.de/ensemble_stimmwerck.php?lingua=en) as one of his favourite ensembles (together with A Sei Voci, Cinquecento, Sound & Fury and others).

A blurb on Heinrich Finck:
(b Bamberg, 1444 or 1445; d Vienna, 9 June 1527). German composer. After training as a choirboy in Poland he travelled widely in search of an appointment. Between 1498 and c 1510 he served in the chapel of Prince Alexander of Lithuania, first in Vilnius, then (when Alexander became King of Poland in 1501) in Kraków. He was subsequently 'Singemeister' of the ducal Kapelle in Stuttgart (1510-14), a household musician to Cardinal M. Lang in Mühldorf (1516-19) and after 1519 composer to the Salzburg Cathedral chapter. Much of his music is lost but several masses, motets and motet cycles, hymns, songs and instrumental pieces survive. His creative life spans three generations: his early style, with its difficult melismatic lines, is rooted in the first flowering of German polyphony but his later works, with their full textures, show him to have assimilated the 'modern' styles of music written after 1500 by Isaac, Josquin and others.

His great-nephew, Hermann (1527-58), an organist in Wittenberg, wrote Practica musica (1556), a treatise on rudiments that gives examples from over 80 works by leading composers.


This is my first acquaintance with Early German repertoire. It is very pretty. Obviously influenced by the Franco-Flemish School, but with a local flavour. Heinrich Finck clearly holds his own. On the disc is the Missa Domenicalis from Finck's later years and a number of secular songs. Bruno was right about this ensemble - their singing is expressive and their voices fit extremely well together and sound ravishing. They have a superb countertenor in their midst, Franz Vitzthum. A very gifted ensemble, which is crucial for the music to succeed in Early Music.

This disc got the full five stars in the now sadly defunct magazine Goldberg, the review doesn't seem to be on the web anymore. Hoverer, here is a on Musicweb International (//http://). The disc sis hard to find but seems still available at the Stimmwerck website (http://www.stimmwerck.de/shop.php?lingua=en&shop_id=2).

Stimmwerck did this disc and another with music by Adam von Fulda  on Cavalli Records, and then switched to Aeolus. Their disc with music from the Codex St. Emmeran, a collaboration with organist Leon Berben, is next on my shopping list!

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on October 15, 2011, 12:25:32 AM
Que; waiting for that disc to drop into my mailbox any minute now. Re early German repoertoire; you dont know Senfl and Isaac? There's a fine Isaac disc on Bongiovanni with the Missa La Spagna.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: jlaurson on October 15, 2011, 01:19:59 AM
Quote from: The new erato on October 15, 2011, 12:25:32 AM
Que; waiting for that disc to drop into my mailbox any minute now. Re early German repoertoire; you dont know Senfl and Isaac? There's a fine Isaac disc on Bongiovanni with the Missa La Spagna.


...and this is one of the finest Senfl discs there is!



(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gp877wX%2BL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
L. Senfl
Missa L'homme Arme
Suspicious Cheese Lords
SCL 002 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000CAFRJ2/goodmusicguide-20)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on October 15, 2011, 02:10:20 AM
Quote from: The new erato on October 15, 2011, 12:25:32 AM
Que; waiting for that disc to drop into my mailbox any minute now.

Good! :) Hope you are doing well after your operation, BTW.


QuoteRe early German repoertoire; you dont know Senfl and Isaac? There's a fine Isaac disc on Bongiovanni with the Missa La Spagna.

Totally uncharted territory! :o  So, any tips are welcome.  :)

Thanks Jens, for mentioning that disc by the American ensemble with the hilarious name.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on October 15, 2011, 02:24:33 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on October 15, 2011, 02:10:20 AM
Good! :) Hope you are doing well after your operation, BTW.

Thanks, wondrously well in fact, have even given up on the painkillers, music is a far better drug!

Quote from: ~ Que ~ on October 15, 2011, 02:10:20 AM
Totally uncharted territory! :o  So, any tips are welcome.  :)

Seem you have some work to do....the Im Maien disc on HM by Fretwork is a good introduction to the secular Senfll.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Willoughby earl of Itacarius on October 15, 2011, 02:40:17 AM
I still have a bunch of old music I must tackle, but the pile is daunting to say the least.

I wish I would like the approach of van Nevel, for he tackles a lot of music I would like to have, unfortunately I cannot get used to his idiosyncratic directing. It irks me very much.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on October 28, 2011, 11:25:56 PM
Quote from: The new erato on October 28, 2011, 10:03:21 PM
CD4 Missa de Beata Virgine; Motets: Vide speciosam, Gaude Maria virgo, Quam pulchra sunt

[asin]B0050F6JQE[/asin]

What are your impressions sofar BTW?

I haven't purchased the set yet, but found Bruno Giordano's ongoing review at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/review/R1Q3QSZBOYJNPI/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0050F6JQE&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=) fascinating.
According to him my Colombina set of the complete vespers for the Holy Week (Glossa) will not be redundant. ::)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on October 28, 2011, 11:42:17 PM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on October 28, 2011, 11:25:56 PM
What are your impressions sofar BTW?

I haven't purchased the set yet, but found Bruno Giordano's ongoing review at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/review/R1Q3QSZBOYJNPI/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0050F6JQE&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=) fascinating.
According to him my Colombina set of the complete vespers for the Holy Week (Glossa) will not be redundant. ::)

Q
I have them both.

Cool and calm singing on this set, though still with more warmth than the typical English cathedral choir. I prefer this way of doing things, and of course Victoria is THE great late renaissance master in the Roman style (superceeding Palestrina in my view); so what's not to like?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on November 25, 2011, 12:01:47 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514Fp9VV-uL.jpg)

Quote from: The new erato on November 24, 2011, 10:58:26 PM
And is this as good as I have seen somebody think?

You must be referring to Bruno Giordano's raving review at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Vocal-Works-Paminger/product-reviews/B0046M150C/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1)? :)

My initial response is: maybe not...

This is a superlative performance in which the ensemble Stimmwerck sings possibly even more perfect than on their Heinrich Finck disc (Cavalli) and the recording engineers at Christophorus did an amazing job. The issue is the music itself. I cannot claim to be anything near as knowledgeable as Giordano in Early Music matters, but I think he might got carried way in his (justified) enthusiasm for the performance. To my ears Leonhard Paminger's music is intimate, pretty and well constructed, but maybe not so adventurous. I do miss that extra touch of individuality that gives me the WOW factor. On the other hand in Early Music the music is also very much what the performers make of it, and here that is impressive indeed.

Maybe first impressions are deceiving and will getting deeper into the music reveal more riches, but there it is...for now... I will report back if there is more to tell. :)

EDIT:

This morning I took the time to listen more attentively. My impressions are confirmed: a superb performance that elevates to a high level the music of an unknown composer of the period that is good and deserves to be heard, but is not essential repertoire. Why Giordano emphasises the polyphonic qualities of this music, is not entirely clear  to me. The polyphony is on the contrary rather sober, probably purposely done so By Paminger to keep the texts clear to the listener - an musical ideal inspired by the influence of Lutheranism. One would get this recording when interested in a new composer in the German Early Music repertoire and/or because of the sheer excellence of the performance. I came across some reviews the more align with my impression than Giordano's take:

QuoteLeonhard Paminger (1495–1567) is one of many Renaissance composers whose names have slipped through the cracks of time and fallen into obscurity, awaiting rediscovery. [...] Born in Aschach on the Danube, Paminger studied in Vienna from 1513 to 1516, and then moved to Passau, where he spent the rest of his life as first a teacher and then headmaster of the Augustinian Choir School of St. Nikola. He composed more than 700 works and sired at least three sons—Balthasar, Sigismund, and Sophronius—who were also composers. Sophronius in particular sought to perpetuate his father's memory, but of a planned posthumous edition of Leonhard's works in 10 volumes only four were published. Aside from his musical activities, Paminger was also involved in the religious controversies of the era; several short polemical works by him on behalf of Lutheranism were published in the year of his death. Some evidence suggests that he may have been forced to relinquish his position in 1558 due to his confessional convictions.

This album presents a mixture of motets and psalm settings, all well crafted and worthy of revival. Despite his Protestant sympathies, virtually all of Paminger's works set Latin rather than German texts—a practice not uncommon in areas that followed Lutheran rather than Reformed doctrine. The initial primary musical influences on Paminger appear to have been Heinrich Isaac and Josquin Desprez. However, in line with the Protestant principle that primacy should be given to intelligibility of the text, there is a good deal more homophony and less polyphony than this lineage might suggest. In particular, the psalm settings frequently feature an alternating pattern in which an initial is sung in unison and a responsory verse in harmony or relatively simple polyphony. As an appendix, a German hymn in four-part chordal harmony (with occasional antiphonal imitation) by Paminger's son Sigismund (1539–71) is also presented.

Stimmwerck is a vocal trio, consisting of countertenor Franz Vitzhum, tenor Gerhard Hölze, and bass Marcus Schmidl, joined here by guest countertenor David Erler. As one might infer with such a small ensemble, intimacy and clarity are primary vocal virtues; the singing and interpretations throughout are highly polished. A minor caveat is that the ensemble members are miked a bit too closely for my tastes and can almost sound as if they are singing directly in one's ear. Texts are provided in Latin, English, German, and French; curiously, though, the booklet note on Stimmwerck itself is given only in German. This disc is warmly recommended both on its own merits and for bringing a neglected and virtually forgotten figure back to our attention.

FANFARE: James A. Altena

And the review by the esteemed Johan van Veen HERE (http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/Christophorus_CHR77331.html).

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on November 25, 2011, 12:38:00 PM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on October 28, 2011, 11:25:56 PM
What are your impressions sofar BTW?

I haven't purchased the set yet, but found Bruno Giordano's ongoing review at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/review/R1Q3QSZBOYJNPI/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0050F6JQE&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=) fascinating.
According to him my Colombina set of the complete vespers for the Holy Week (Glossa) will not be redundant. ::)

Q

I am still sitting on the fence on this set.  I expect to order another batch of early music CD's before the end of the year.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on November 25, 2011, 02:52:18 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on November 25, 2011, 12:38:00 PM
I am still sitting on the fence on this set.  I expect to order another batch of early music CD's before the end of the year.

I'm planning to get that Victoria set. I've had some good experiences with Noone and his ensemble.

It get the thumbs up by Harry! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on November 30, 2011, 04:06:02 AM
The only one of this band's albums I don't own is being rereleased on Helios in January. Very much looking forward to it.

[asin]B00004VXCU[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on December 02, 2011, 07:00:04 PM
Posted a short discography of Salamone Rossi's Songs of Salamone (1622) as an independent thread here:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,19634.new.html#new
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on December 03, 2011, 03:05:35 PM
Quote from: chasmaniac on November 30, 2011, 04:06:02 AM
The only one of this band's albums I don't own is being rereleased on Helios in January. Very much looking forward to it.

[asin]B00004VXCU[/asin]

I surely will not miss this release.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 13, 2012, 08:42:33 AM
Has anyone tried this new issue yet? :)

[asin]B0053SQSNM[/asin]

What piqued my interest was this glowing review (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Jan12/ciconia_RIC316.htm) on MusicWeb. And the two Amazon reviews - one by Bruno Giordano - seem all the more reason to consider it seriously!

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on January 13, 2012, 09:57:57 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on January 13, 2012, 08:42:33 AM
Has anyone tried this new issue yet? :)

[asin]B0053SQSNM[/asin]

What piqued my interest was this glowing review (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Jan12/ciconia_RIC316.htm) on MusicWeb. And the two Amazon reviews - one by Bruno Giordano - seem all the more reason to consider it seriously!

Q

That looks good. I've arranged to pick it up this weekend, so I'll relay my impressions then. The PAN release (Homage to...) that Bruno refers to is one I like. I was less than impressed by Mala Punica's Sidus Preclarum, but don't remember why.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 13, 2012, 11:34:07 AM
Quote from: chasmaniac on January 13, 2012, 09:57:57 AM
The PAN release (Homage to...) that Bruno refers to is one I like.

I'm not surprised, since it is by the Huelgas Ensemble and Van Nevel. Recorded in 1984, later reissued on CD (Pavane), now OOP and vanished... :-\

But on the bright side - this new issue looks very appealing as well. :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on January 13, 2012, 12:07:16 PM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on January 13, 2012, 11:34:07 AM
I'm not surprised, since it is by the Huelgas Ensemble and Van Nevel. Recorded in 1984, later reissued on CD (Pavane), now OOP and vanished... :-\

But on the bright side - this new issue looks very appealing as well. :)

Q

Well, he mentions the Huelgas too, but his "PAN" refers to this album by Ensemble Project Ars Nova:

[asin]B000000R38[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 13, 2012, 11:03:05 PM
Quote from: chasmaniac on January 13, 2012, 12:07:16 PM
Well, he mentions the Huelgas too, but his "PAN" refers to this album by Ensemble Project Ars Nova:

Got you!  :) what happened to them anyway? There seems to be only a handful of discs...

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on January 15, 2012, 04:56:30 AM
Don't know what happened to Ensemble P.A.N.

The Ricercar set is very good. The second disc, by Diabolus in Musica, with lower voices in play, rises to fabulous. Recommended.

[asin]B0053SQSNM[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 16, 2012, 12:02:14 AM
Quote from: chasmaniac on January 15, 2012, 04:56:30 AM
The Ricercar set is very good. The second disc, by Diabolus in Musica, with lower voices in play, rises to fabulous. Recommended.

Great! :)

If some of you are in the know, I'd like to discuss the Anglo-German vocal ensemble The Sound and the Fury. And I promised Drasko a write up on their De la Rue disc. :)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/9004629314716.jpg)

I had a good listen this morning and well, I have my reservations.

This is a live recording is, as I understand are all their recordings. The Sound and the Fury's style is a rather relaxed and flowing one. All good and fine, but with complex polyphonic music singing needs to be knit quite tightly otherwise the music will loose its clarity. The first three parts of the Missa Ave Sanctissima Maria were disappointing: sloppy singing and intonations problems - at time just plainly off! :-\ But the subsequent parts were rather pretty, as is the Missa O Salutaris Hostia. Another observation: I don't think the voices blend that well - I have in particular the tenor and one of the basses in mind.

If I take a step back and just think of the vocal ensemble Stimmwerck - with their simply drop-dead gorgeous diction, perfect timing and ethereal blending of voices - and my preference is clear. On those points the members of The Sound and The Fury, who are excellent on their best moments, fall short of the "magic" I'm looking for in this music.

Browsing on the net, I accidentally came across Johan van Veen's comments on their recordings of works by Guillaume Faugues, that concur with my impressions of the De la Rue recording:

The performances certainly have their merits, but on balance I am not that enthusiastic. These are recordings of live performances. Sometimes those circumstances can give a performance a special quality, but that is not the case here. There are some irregularities and uncertainties, and these are clearly audible because the microphones have been pretty close to the singers. The church seems to have enough reverberation for this repertoire, but that isn't really taken advantage of. It also results in a very detailed picture: every single line can be heard - which in itself is nice, although probably not really intended by the composer -, but at the cost of the complete picture. Moreover it emphasizes that the voices don't blend that well and that tenor Klaus Wenk regularly reaches the limit of his upper range. I don't know - and the liner-notes don't tell - whether these masses have been transposed, but his part doesn't always sit very comfortably for his voice. This music needs to be sung legato, and in these performances this isn't always as fluent as one would wish (Full review HERE (http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/ORF_3025_3115.html%3Cbr%20/%3EGuillaume%20FAUGUES))

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on January 16, 2012, 12:11:49 AM
Does anybody have any experience with these 3 discs?:

[asin]B005UU06D6[/asin]

de la Rue is underrepresented on record.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 16, 2012, 12:22:04 AM
Quote from: The new erato on January 16, 2012, 12:11:49 AM
Does anybody have any experience with these 3 discs?:

de la Rue is underrepresented on record.

I spotted that new release as well! :) All I know is that the three individual discs have been favourably reviewed before and awarded: Diapason d'Or, Caeciliaprize of the Belgian Music press, Repertoire 10, ***** Goldberg magazine, Prix Choc de Monde de la Musique.

Description of the individual discs:
http://www.capilla.be/EN/Pierre_de_La_Rue__Missa_de_septem_doloribus-discografie-15.php
http://www.capilla.be/EN/Pierre_de_La_Rue__Missa_Ave_Maria_en_Vespera-discografie-7.php
http://www.capilla.be/EN/Pierre_de_La_Rue__Missa_Alleluia_Muziek_aan_het_Bourgondsiche_Hof-discografie-30.php

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 17, 2012, 12:39:59 AM
.[asin]B0000634VR[/asin]

As promised to Drasko a little writeup. [In the meantime this recording has been reissued again.]



Anyway, what a gorgeous disc! :o the Franco-Flemish composer Jean Richafort (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Richafort) was an unknown quantity to me. He is of the first post-Josquin Deprez generation. He was widely known and respected during his life time, hence a lot of his works have been preserved for prosperity. Paradoxally little is known about his life - another short but more elaborate bio HERE (//http://). So, why is this the sole recording? ::) The discontent for this neglect is clear in Van Nevel's liner notes, where he fulminates against certain musicologists that have dismissed Richafort on the basis of the scores as "uninteresting". He argues that the qualities of Richafort only truly become apparent when listened to.
And listening I did... :) In some comments on Richafort the similarity with Desprez is emphasised. Nonsense. Technically Richafort built on Desprez' heritage, but the experience is entirely different. What he presents us is sensuous, introverted music that is expansive with long drawn smooth lines that are continuously blending, with a lot of complex stuff going on below the surface. I suspect the sound blending is typically something that does not very visible in the score. Far from "uninteresting" - unique, engaging and achingly beautiful! :) Van Nevel and his ensemble do a superlative job with music that seems very hard to pull off in a proper way. The six-part Requiem in Desprez' memory is a daunting masterpiece, so are the motets included here - the Salve Regina in particular. It seems the only nag for some listeners are the church acoustics, that are spacious with a noticeable delay yet definitely clear. I think taking issue with this aspect is a mistake - this is exactly what the music was written for and actually needs! As long as this is taken in in the performance, which is here the case - Van Nevel takes a steady but unhurried pace as to prevent blurring of the musical texture.

I'm quoting below David Vernier's comments to which I fully concur:

QuoteWho knows what creative force drove 16th-century French composer Jean Richafort (c.1480-c.1547) to write music of such sublime power and soothing sensuality. But the fact is, the Requiem and several of the motets leave you wondering not only why this composer isn't better known (he was highly respected in his time and many of his works have survived) but also just a little emotionally drained. The opening eight or ten minutes of the Requiem move with the majesty of the spheres, harmonies unfolding upon harmony, lines building on line, and by the time we reach a true cadence we're looking upward for the certain appearance of some heavenly host or other. A little "over the top", you say? Well, I suggest you reserve judgment until you've heard a few minutes of this marvelous music. The mood is interrupted--or some might say, relieved--by a faster-moving, more rhythmically complex section midway through the Gradual, nearly 12 minutes into the Requiem. The textural and temporal intensity picks up further in the following Offertory, a lengthy (eight and a half minutes) yet continually engaging setting. By now you've noticed that Richafort loves to interject an occasional startling, clashing harmony into the mix, just enough to grab our attention but not enough to become a mere tiresome gimmick.


The Huelgas Ensemble's performances give us far more than a taste of Richafort's genius; by disc's end we feel immersed, baptized, and perhaps saturated, a little dazzled by all the color and walls of sound created by the various voices and voicings--and the singers' near-perfect intonation. Among the motets, the five-part Salve Regina is touted as a masterpiece--and it is, but its musical impact still gives way to that of the Requiem's opening sections. And just what is a drinking song doing in the middle of all of this--a chanson called "Tru tru trut avant" for three male voices? Who cares--when you hear this catchy little gem, you'll just want to hear it again, and if you sing in a group you'll be wishing for your own copy of the score. The only thing that keeps this disc from a top rating is the sound--a bit too much resonance overwhelms the most densely textured sections and obscures some of those lovely lines we just want to hear more clearly. But this is a relatively minor complaint, one that my professional duty requires me to make, but that itself is quickly subsumed with each resounding cadence (or with each replay of "Tru tru trut avant").
--David Vernier, ClassicsToday.com

Note also the elaborate Amazon reviews (http://www.amazon.com/Richafort-Requiem-memoriam-Josquin-Ensemble/product-reviews/B0000634VR).

More recordings of Jean Richafort's music please!! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Willoughby earl of Itacarius on January 17, 2012, 12:42:18 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on January 17, 2012, 12:39:59 AM
(http://cover7.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/36/1195136.jpg)

It seems I got myself another OOP disc - my apologies for bringing it up... :-\ Still, as promised to Drasko a little writeup - maybe this recording will resurface again.

Anyway, what a gorgeous disc! :o the Franco-Flemish composer Jean Richafort (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Richafort) was an unknown quantity to me. He is of the first post-Josquin Deprez generation. He was widely known and respected during his life time, hence a lot of his works have been preserved for prosperity. Paradoxally little is known about his life - another short but more elaborate bio HERE (//http://). So, why is this the sole recording? ::) The discontent for this neglect is clear in Van Nevel's liner notes, where he fulminates against certain musicologists that have dismissed Richafort on the basis of the scores as "uninteresting". He argues that the qualities of Richafort only truly become apparent when listened to.
And listening I did... :) In some comments on Richafort the similarity with Desprez is emphasised. Nonsense. Technically Richafort built on Desprez' heritage, but the experience is entirely different. What he presents us is sensuous, introverted music that is expansive with long drawn smooth lines that are continuously blending, with a lot of complex stuff going on below the surface. I suspect the sound blending is typically something that does not very visible in the score. Far from "uninteresting" - unique, engaging and achingly beautiful! :) Van Nevel and his ensemble do a superlative job with music that seems very hard to pull off in a proper way. The six-part Requiem in Desprez' memory is a daunting masterpiece, so are the motets included here - the Salve Regina in particular. It seems the only nag for some listeners are the church acoustics, that are spacious with a noticeable delay yet definitely clear. I think taking issue with this aspect is a mistake - this is exactly what the music was written for and actually needs! As long as this is taken in in the performance, which is here the case - Van Nevel takes a steady but unhurried pace as to prevent blurring of the musical texture.

I'm quoting below David Vernier's comments to which I fully concur:

Note also the elaborate Amazon reviews (http://www.amazon.com/Richafort-Requiem-memoriam-Josquin-Ensemble/product-reviews/B0000634VR).

More recordings of Jean Richafort's music please!! :)

Q

Of course its OOP, as I discovered when I tried to order it. :(
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 17, 2012, 12:57:28 AM
Quote from: Harry on January 17, 2012, 12:42:18 AM
Of course its OOP, as I discovered when I tried to order it. :(

I know, I know... :-[ It was issued in 2002, which is not that long ago (or maybe I'm getting old 8)).

Harmonia Mundi should include it in their new pretty Hm Gold series. Don't you have any connections with them? :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on January 17, 2012, 01:58:21 AM
I bought it in 02, :-)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Willoughby earl of Itacarius on January 17, 2012, 02:51:23 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on January 17, 2012, 12:57:28 AM
I know, I know... :-[ It was issued in 2002, which is not that long ago (or maybe I'm getting old 8)).

Harmonia Mundi should include it in their new pretty Hm Gold series. Don't you have any connections with them? :)

Q

No, alas I have not  :(
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on January 17, 2012, 06:36:04 PM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on January 17, 2012, 12:57:28 AM
I know, I know... :-[ It was issued in 2002, which is not that long ago (or maybe I'm getting old 8)).

Harmonia Mundi should include it in their new pretty Hm Gold series. Don't you have any connections with them? :)

Q

I wonder what kind of lousy sale a recording has to generate to be put on the OOP list only eight years after it has been released?  There are classical recordings that stay in the catalog for 20 or 30 years and perhaps longer ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on January 17, 2012, 09:53:11 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on January 17, 2012, 06:36:04 PM
  There are classical recordings that stay in the catalog for 20 or 30 years and perhaps longer ...
Yes, but usually of pretty mainstream repertoire of interest to the non-special listener.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on January 18, 2012, 08:18:19 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on January 16, 2012, 12:02:14 AM
If some of you are in the know, I'd like to discuss the Anglo-German vocal ensemble The Sound and the Fury. And I promised Drasko a write up on their De la Rue disc. :)

That was super prompt, thanks! And most interesting, since my impressions after Gombert disc were different (save for relative lack of blend and preference for dry and detailed rather than wet, reverberant acoustics, but those seem to me more like differences in taste) and much more positive. Haven't noticed any lack of tightness and sloppiness, but it might be due the fact that TSatF don't sing always in same line up - for instance aforementioned tenor doesn't sing on Gombert disc. Will have to give another spin to Gombert, and Que would you give a shot to their Gombert motet I've uploaded few pages ago, I'm curious would you have same reservations on that one.

Thanks also for Richafort writeup, haven't heard anything from him yet.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: bumtz on January 28, 2012, 03:53:22 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on January 17, 2012, 12:39:59 AM
(http://cover7.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/36/1195136.jpg)

It seems I got myself another OOP disc - my apologies for bringing it up... :-\ Still, as promised to Drasko a little writeup - maybe this recording will resurface again.


Quote from: Harry on January 17, 2012, 12:42:18 AM
Of course its OOP, as I discovered when I tried to order it. :(

No need to despair, it is still available as a part of a 3-CD Huelgas Ensemble Renaissance set: http://www.amazon.fr/Renaissance-Compilation/dp/B000H4VXMS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1327755005&sr=8-4

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yc84C9ODL._SS400_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on January 28, 2012, 05:34:34 AM
Quote from: bumtz on January 28, 2012, 03:53:22 AM
No need to despair, it is still available as a part of a 3-CD Huelgas Ensemble Renaissance set: http://www.amazon.fr/Renaissance-Compilation/dp/B000H4VXMS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1327755005&sr=8-4

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yc84C9ODL._SS400_.jpg)

Thanks for the link and I just bookmarked it.  I have never ordered anything from Amazon France but may do it this time since this set is not available on other Amazon sites at a reasonable price ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on February 09, 2012, 04:13:42 AM
I find myself enamoured of ars nova and the Burgundian school, Vitry, Machaut, Landini, Ciconia, Dufay, Binchois et al. I'll offer up favourite recordings and some background in the hope that others will find the matter worthy of comment.

First up is Philippe de Vitry and the Ars Nova by the Orlando Consort:

[asin]B00000204S[/asin]

QuoteDe Vitry is best known (and only to musicologists) as the mastermind of the new musical notation which made ars nova polyphony possible, and which led to the development of modern notation. The evidence of his role is provisional, and the attribution of the motets on this CD to him is quite speculative, but if it's correct, then he was one of the greatest musical innovators of all time. Now the virtuosity of the Orlando Consort has brought this crucial repertory to life in a performance of such beauty and subtlety that the listener can forget about scholarship and just bask in sound. The art of this music is chiefly in the complex polyrhythmic development of relatively transparent harmonic progressions. As usual, the Orlando's control of phrasing and tuning is phenomenal. I have one huge gripe, however. There are no texts! These motets, most of them poly-textual, are of great literary interest. They are not just the usual love-stuff; they include mordant satire of 14th C society and of the church, as well as witty self-reflections. Still, the musical values are so strong that I have to rate the CD as five stars... or let's say as seven stars, minus two for the lack of texts.
--Giordano Bruno on amazon

Quote'The flower and jewel of singers', 'the finest figure in the entire musical world', 'the outstanding prince of musicians, heir to Orpheus, whose name will live forever'... such contemporary views of Philippe de Vitry rightly suggest that his music (not so well known as it might be) is worthy of listening to. Born in 1291, probably in Champagne, he spent most of his life in the service of the royal administration and as Bishop of Meaux dying an accomplished poet, philosopher, cleric and mathematician to boot in 1361. Conjecture has it that this combination of skills and attendant predispositions towards both rigor and innovation, combined with drive and repute, enabled Vitry to play certainly a leading role, maybe a decisive one, in the changes that occurred in French music in the ten years or so before 1325; these changes were in three significant areas:

1.the systems of notation were thoroughly revised
2.a new form and technique of building the motet was arrived at
3.a new language of harmony and counterpoint was developed for the motet

These developments resulted in the classic isorhythmic motet, which sets a pair of texts simultaneously in its two upper voices; the repeated rhythmic patterns of the tenor do not necessarily accord with melodic ones. Other strict 'regulations' of repetition (coincidence at prominent or significant textual junctures, for example) made for a rigorously-organized structure, following which was an intentional intellectual challenge. That Vitry was able to utilize this set of self-imposed restrictions to such effect and specifically to create music which also sounds so well is remarkable. But here is the evidence; it's plain that, for all the mathematics, the text comes first and the music is unforced and never distorted by the format. What's more, textual cross-referencing, allusions, symbols and thematic subtleties are packed into each short motet (most last a mere three minutes and none much longer than seven on this disc) more densely than in almost any other mediaeval form. This means that careful listening is a requirement if you want to get the most from the whole. Nothing arid or crossword puzzle-like here, though: this tight, colorful weave is one on which Machaut gazed, which he understood and then unpicked for himself.

Philippe de Vitry and the Ars Nova is a wonderful CD with almost an hour's worth of 19 motets from the first quarter of the fourteenth century reflecting the changes through which the genre passed. In fact, it's unclear exactly which of the works were composed by Vitry himself and which by members of his circle. The earliest group of four motets dates from right at the beginning of this period of change; they illustrate Le Roman Fauvel, which satirizes religious and political corruption and, from specific references, can be dated fairly certainly to shortly after 1315. The rest are from the 1320s: they concentrate on courtly life, abuse, fawning dependency at court and (other) such deviants as writers who compose incoherent texts (In virtute/Decens, tr.12; the two texts, separated by the oblique, are that pair set in the isorhythmic motet, described above) as well as personal attacks. The lovely Tuba/In arboris, Vos/Gratissima, Impudenter/Virtutibus, Flos/Celsa, Almifonis/Rosa and Apta/Flos are strictly religious, particularly Marian, motets, the latter being probably of a later date and certainly of the 'ars subtilior' (more subtle style) which characterized the second phase of the 'ars nova'. The theme of courtly love, otherwise ubiquitous at this time, is represented here by only one motet, Douce/Garison ; while one other 'frivolous' piece, Se je chant, has been included because it is so close to the Vitry school or style.

The Orlando Consort consists of a countertenor, two tenors and a baritone: their singing is near impeccable. This is music which they know well and sing from the soul. Where a certain 'spring' is needed, the Orlando Consort has it; where reticence, a tender pause; and where humor is called for, just the right, light touch of emphasis. Relaxed yet meticulously-articulated, their performance of each motet is a study in paying perfect attention to the individual line; this greatly helps the listener to follow the dual texts. Each singer's part nevertheless melds into a deeply musical ensemble. There seem times (in Tribum que non abhorruit/Quoniam secta latronum, for instance) when Robert Harre-Jones' countertenor is a little too closely miked compared with the other singers. Their performance is intimate, focused and ultimately very satisfying. Although the accompanying booklet has clear notes on the historical and musical background, the motets' texts are not included: a pity. Amazingly, there is no other CD in the current catalog devoted exclusively to Vitry, so if you want to know more about this important and interesting period of French musical development, this excellent CD is a must. Buy it with confidence.

Copyright © 2007, Mark Sealey
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: mc ukrneal on February 09, 2012, 04:17:12 AM
Quote from: chasmaniac on February 09, 2012, 04:13:42 AM
I find my self enamoured of ars nova and the Burgundian school, Vitry, Machaut, Landini, Ciconia, Dufay, Binchois et al. I'll offer up favourite recordings and some background in the hope that others will find the matter worthy of comment.

First up is Philippe de Vitry and the Ars Nova by the Orlando Consort:
[asin]B00002MN2C[/asin]

Will follow with interest.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Lethevich on February 09, 2012, 04:50:27 AM
Glad to see the Orlando Consort mentioned - they recorded one of my favourite early music discs - desperately in need of reissue:

[asin]B000002K3V[/asin]
The singing is impeccable, but it's also not obscured by the acoustic as in some - just gorgeous-sounding.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on February 09, 2012, 04:59:42 AM
Quote from: Lethevich on February 09, 2012, 04:50:27 AM
Glad to see the Orlando Consort mentioned - they recorded one of my favourite early music discs - desperately in need of reissue:

[asin]B000002K3V[/asin]
The singing is impeccable, but it's also not obscured by the acoustic as in some - just gorgeous-sounding.

That looks like one for the high-and-low search list. I quite agree with you about acoustics. I like a sound dry enough to hear the parts clearly. Here's Bruno again on the Dunstaple:

QuoteIn terms of influence and recognition elsewhere, yes! English singers and composers (the two were usually the same) had been working in France and 'Italy' long before Dunstaple's time of fame, but they had assimilated continental styles. Dunstaple's music introduced English harmony, based on fa-burden, emphasizing perfect thirds, to the generation of Dufay, and the effect was huge. Possibly the marked shift in tuning of instruments, from Pythagorean to "mean" reflected Dunstaple's influence; it's a chicken/egg question.

Influence aside, Dunstaple was a glorious composer, the musical ancestor of Ockeghem in his freely polyphonic, horizontally extended, rhythmically uninhibited lines. Sung well, both Dunstaple and Ockeghem sound like passionate improvisation in all four parts, which nonetheless reaches cadences with sublime harmonic assurance. No consort or choir has come close to singing this music as perfectly as the Orlandos, not even the wonderful Hilliard Ensemble. And since four voices are easier to record than twelve or twenty (a chamber chorus), the sound quality on this CD is excellent. Why, it sounds like four beautiful men's voices in the same room! And singing with incredible precision of pitch and attack! And inflecting every line as if the language had meaning! This is the best recording of Dunstaple ever made. Buy it while you can.

That last sentence is telling.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Leon on February 09, 2012, 07:32:55 AM
Early Music has been a particular interest of mine for a long time, but my listening to it goes in spurts with long periods without putting it on my player.  I have accumlated about 80 or so albums but don't find myself adding to it much more these days. 

After seeing this thread I created a playlist in my iTunes library and am enjoying hearing this music again.

So far I've heard selections from these:

[asin]B000000A4R[/asin]

[asin]B000002SSB[/asin]

[asin]B00004TC4W[/asin]

:)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on February 09, 2012, 08:01:58 AM
Cool, Arnold! That third number was on my list anyway, so here goes. (Pictured as rereleased last year on HM Gold.)

Guillaume Dufay, O gemma lux: Complete Isorhythmic Motets by the Huelgas Ensemble

[asin]B004IXP5P0[/asin]

QuoteModern ears have been subjected to a sound world so complex and chaotic--and just plain noisy--that it's impossible for us now to really appreciate the original contextual significance of works such as these 15th century motets of Guillaume Dufay. We can enjoy them on many levels and we can intellectually understand their importance, but when we hear these very complex rhythms, and harmonies that often have a strange, vacant quality, we can't erase from our memory the fact that we've heard Brahms and Ives and Stravinsky. But I picked those three composers because each owes something to Dufay and to others who wrote in ancient forms and styles, in this case the isorhythmic motet. Much like Bach's works were at the same time a summation and epitomization of the Baroque, so were these motets of Dufay in their way a final, ultimate statement regarding one of the more sophisticated musical forms of the Middle Ages. Simply put, the isorhythmic motet begins with a particular rhythmic formula or pattern that's applied to a melody in one or more voices and repeated several times throughout the piece. The structure can get quite complicated, especially if different rhythmic formulas are used for different voices, making for irregular patterns of repetition. Dufay was a master of this compositional technique and as you listen you can see why later composers looking for interesting new ideas would have found very fertile ground among pieces like these. Conductor Paul Van Nevel organizes the program chronologically so the careful listener can follow the gradual stylistic changes Dufay employed from first motet to last--a range of approximately 20 years. His singers and instrumentalists, the always intriguing, musically polished, and stylistically informed Huelgas Ensemble, just seem to revel in the music--somehow reaching back to that motorless, unplugged time where no sound was amplified or transmitted except by means of natural acoustics, where voices and instruments were commonly heard resonating from stone and wood. And we get that too, thanks to Harmonia Mundi's skillful miking in the suitably ancient, resonant space of l'Abbaye-aux-Dames.
--David Vernier, ClassicsToday.com

QuoteMusic appreciation textbooks and timelines in magazines often name Guillaume Dufay as the first great composer of the European Renaissance, but one might equally call him the last great composer of the Middle Ages. This disc presents all 13 of Dufay's isorhythmic motets--the final masterpieces of a very medieval-minded genre. During the Middle Ages, music was considered a science (just like mathematics), and isorhythmic motets are constructed according to strict arithmetical principles. In addition, each voice generally has a different text, while the fundamental voice (called the tenor) usually has no text at all and is often (as here) performed by instruments. As this description might indicate, isorhythmic motets are among the most intellectualized and least emotive works in the entire pre-20th century repertory--yet Paul van Nevel and the Huelgas Ensemble achieve an impressive range of expression from such seemingly poker-faced music. Apostolo glorioso (composed for the consecration of a church) and Ecclesie militantis (written for the coronation of a Pope), performed by choir and (antique) brass, are ornate and imposing, while Magnanime gentes laudes, done by one soprano, one tenor, and one trombone doubled by recorder, is intimate and delicate. The director's excellent program notes explain how isorhythmic motets are constructed and what to listen for. Van Nevel also offers wise advice: Don't listen to this disc straight through--rather, listen carefully to one or two motets several times until you recognize the structural markers, then move on to other motets later. Following that advice will make this CD somewhat more work than most, but the listener's effort will be richly repaid by these splendid performances.
--Matthew Westphal
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: val on February 10, 2012, 01:11:09 AM
The CD with Motets of Dufay, "O gemma lux" is one of the most beautiful I ever heard. But let's not forget at least two other sublime recordings with music of Dufay:
Missa "Ecce ancilla Domini" (Ensemble Gilles Binchois)
Missa "Se la face ay pale" (Early Music Consort, Munrow)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on February 10, 2012, 02:24:32 AM
Guillaume de Machaut, Messe de Nostre Dame, by Diabolus in Musica

[asin]B001E1TGMW[/asin]

QuoteMachaut's elegant and glorious Notre (or, more properly, Nostre) Dame Mass is still emblematic of events 40 years ago in the 'early' music field. It was one of the first works to which attention turned during the great resurgence of interest and explosion of expertise in performing medieval music in the 1960s. Perhaps because this is the first complete polyphonic mass known to have been the work of one composer and preserved in its entirety. Perhaps because two or three generations ago it sounded so splendid, new – exotic, almost. Certainly striking. There are currently fewer than a dozen recordings in the catalog; these do not include the one by Noah Greenberg and the New York Pro Musica, an iconic recording central to the early music revival. Like any modern symphony or chamber work, Machaut's hour-long work admits of almost as many interpretations as there are interpreters.

On this CD we get a robust and highly convincing interpretation from the ever enterprising eight-person (all male) French group, Diabolus in Musica, under their director Antoine Guerber. 'Diabolus in Musica', by the way, implies the E-B (or the modern F-B) tritone, or augmented fourth, used throughout Western music to establish dissonance – the devil, to be kept out of music at all costs. The group's is a direct, intimate and penetrating approach. Although the textures which the ensemble consistently achieves are sonorous, they are neither fanciful, nor over-rich. The tempi are refreshingly slow, unhurried and allow exposition of the importance, weight and impact of every syllable; for the words are of the utmost importance.

Machaut (c.1300-1377) was a contemporary of Chaucer. It's tempting to see parallels between Chaucer's wry adaptability to the succession of disasters of the century (plague, famine, war, social instability) and the almost sanguine response to such suffering of Machaut, who was canon at Reims cathedral from 1337 until his death 40 years later. It's to what was surely Machaut's inner strength, his faith, certainty of the rightness of a devoted life and later salvation, that Guerber and Diabolus in Musica respond in this excellent performance.

It's just as important to bear in mind how much of a change in liturgical life this mass represents. This may be surprising: Machaut was following on the tradition established during the composer's first years in his post at Reims of singing a plainchant votive Marian mass; yet polyphony was discouraged. In 1352 Pope Clement VI funded the Chapter at Reims with twelve cantors of sufficient skill and experience to provide Machaut with executors of his more ambitious and resplendent music. It did, though, take him another dozen years or so before the Messe de Nostre Dame was written. But can there be no connection?

By refusing to overplay their hands, by judicious restraint, and by meticulous articulation of every note in undemonstrative yet highly expressive phrasing Diabolus in Musica seems to have captured not only the rigor and joy which Machaut employed in this task. But these wise musicians are also at one with the novelty and innovative impact which the mass must have made when first sung. The recording – which is crisp and atmospheric – was made in a low-ceilinged location at the Abbey of Fontevraud. This acoustic enhances the music-making. Ultimately, it's the perspicacity and skill of Guerber and his singers that makes this recording so successful and satisfying. Listen to the lines and varying intensities of the Gloria [tr.3], for example. As much gentle and yet lavish breath as unselfconscious poise. Yet without drawing any teeth: the singers in Diabolus in Musica are real individuals performing as such. No attempt to submerge or efface their vocal personalities. Nor yet to impose wayward, unnecessary color. The music comes first and last – and is somehow interpreted for what it is: a liturgy in which to be involved. Yet as much as an object of beauty and wonder as a rather austere – No, restrained – service.

Plainchant is interspersed with polyphony. The flow is never interrupted and onto the whole work is conferred a unity under the direction of Guerber that makes attentive listening particularly rewarding. Perhaps this is due in part to the pronunciation adopted... the Latin pronounced as was the 'Middle French' – for it is now thought that clerics in a setting like Machaut's at Reims used the vernacular. Note, too, that there are two motets: Rex Karole by the contemporary Philippe Royllart [tr.8], and the anonymous Zolomina/Nazarea/Ave Maria [tr.15] interspersed with the mass.

The booklet that comes with this CD is up to the usual standards with introductory essays in French and English; the text of the mass is in Latin, modern French and English. So here's a recording that can be unequivocally recommended both for anyone who has yet to discover the glorious intensity and transparent beauty of this music; and who may have one or more other recordings in their collection (that by Oxford Camerata under Jeremy Summerly on Naxos 8.553833 is otherwise a good first stop) but wants to get to know multiple perspectives. Don't wait!
--Copyright © 2008, Mark Sealey

QuoteBiographical note from medieval.org:

Guillaume de Machaut (d.1377) is one of the undisputed pinnacle geniuses of Western music, and the most famous composer of the Middle Ages. Today his four-voice Mass of Notre Dame is a textbook example for medieval counterpoint, and has served sufficiently to maintain his reputation across shifts in fashion. However Machaut's work is extensive, with his French songs & poetry dominating the fourteenth century by both their quality and volume. A series of carefully prepared illuminated manuscripts, undertaken for members of the French royalty, preserve his complete artistic output. Along with these major sources, various pieces are duplicated in scattered sources throughout Europe. His life and work are thus extremely well-preserved for the period, and his position as the most distinguished composer of the century has never wavered.

Machaut was apparently born in the vicinity of Rheims in Champagne, around the year 1300. He is first known as the secretary of John of Luxembourg in 1323, and used the position to travel extensively for various battles and political events. In approximately 1340, Machaut returned to Rheims to take up the position of canon (he had previously been an absentee office-holder) together with his brother Jean. However, he continued to serve John of Luxembourg until the latter's death at Crécy in 1346, and then served his daughter Bonne, who appears in the Remède de Fortune. The remainder of the fourteenth century was an epic of wars and plagues, and one of the few periods in which the population of Europe declined, but Machaut's reputation continued to rise. He went on to serve two kings of France, and was charged with a task as important as accompanying hostages during the English war. In 1361 the Dauphine was received in Machaut's quarters, an exceptional event. By the 1370s Machaut's name was associated with Pierre de Lusignan, King of Cyprus, thus establishing his fame nearly as far as Asia.

Machaut is frequently portrayed today as an avant garde composer, especially because of his position with regard to the early Ars Nova (a new, more detailed rhythmic notation), but one must also emphasize the masterful continuity with which he employed established forms. While using the same basic formats, he made subtle changes to meter and rhyme scheme, allowing for more personal touches and a more dramatic presentation. Indeed, Machaut's poetry is one of the most impressive French outputs of the medieval era, serving as an example even for Chaucer. The theme of courtly love dominates his writing, becoming heavily symbolized in the guises of such characters as Fortune & Love, and the personal dramas in which they act. Machaut's poetic output, and by extension the subset of texts he chose to set to music, is both personal and ritualized, lending it a timeless quality. Some of the love themes date to Ovid and beyond, from whom they had been elaborated first by the troubadours of Provence and then by the northern trouvères, and so it is truly a classical tradition to which Machaut belongs.

Machaut marks the end of the lineage of the trouvères, and with it the development of the monophonic art song in the West. This aspect of his work is found in the virelais and especially the lengthy lais. He also acted decisively to refine the emerging polyphonic song forms ballade & rondeau, and these were to become the dominant fixed forms for the following generations. What Machaut achieved so eloquently is an idiomatic and natural combination of words with music, forcefully compelling in its lyrical grace and rhythmic sophistication. His songs are immediately enjoyable, because he was able to shape the smallest melodic nuances as well as to conceive forms on a larger scale. The latter is reflected especially in his poetic-musical creations Le Remède de Fortune and Le Voir Dit, as well as in his Messe de Notre Dame. One must not lose sight of Machaut's position within the sweep of medieval history, as his great "multimedia" productions had clear precedents in the Roman de la Rose and especially the Roman de Fauvel. It is Machaut's ability to unite cogent and elegant melodic thinking with the new rhythmic possibilities of the Ars Nova which ultimately makes his musical reputation.

Although he wrote music for more than one hundred of his French poems, and even for half a dozen motets in Latin, Machaut remains best-known for his Mass of Notre Dame. This mass was written as part of the commemoration of the Virgin endowed by the Machaut brothers at Rheims, and was intended for performance in a smaller setting by specialized soloists. The most striking aspect of the piece is not simply the high quality of the contrapuntal writing, but the architectural unity of the Ordinary sections as well. Machaut's mass is not the earliest surviving mass cycle (there are two which predate it), but it is the earliest by a single composer and indeed the earliest to display this degree of unity. While the chants used as cantus firmus do vary, opening gestures and motivic figures are used to confirm the cyclical nature of the work. Technique of this magnitude is frequently offered as evidence of Machaut's prescience, given the prominence of such forms a hundred or two hundred years later, but the musical quality of his cycle can be appreciated on its own terms. Of course, the same can be said for Machaut's oeuvre as a whole.
--Todd McComb, 4/98
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on February 13, 2012, 02:29:39 AM
The Unknown Lover: Songs by Solage and Machaut by Gothic Voices

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QuoteGothic Voices is a durable British ensemble that has performed medieval secular music mostly in vocal a cappella style. You may or may not like that approach, but if you'd like to give it a try, this disc contains repertory in which unaccompanied singing works well. The group sings some of the fixed-form chansons of Machaut -- and not the usual ones -- but then seizes on the inherent complexity of Machaut's music and looks forward in time to one of his successors, the mysterious Solage. Nothing, not even a first name, is known of this composer, but he was active at the end of the fourteenth century, and his music, lumped at the time under the label of ars subtilior or "subtle art,"seems to have been intellectual and at times freakish. Many discs contain one or two of his pieces, but this one offers a more generous sampling of this music. For a taste of what you're getting into, sample his best-known piece, Fumeux fume par fumee (track 6), whose opening lines are here translated as "Out of dreams the dreamer dreams up dreamy speculation." Elsewhere the pieces have been thought to refer to smoke, or perhaps even to drug use -- a logical supposition in view of the thoroughly cosmic text. This was apparently music made for small groups of aficionados, and the rather claustrophobic atmosphere induced by the small groups of voices singing medieval intervals actually helps put across the weirdly arcane mood of Solage's music. Other songs involve acrostics in their texts, comment on political affairs (S'aincy estoit, track 10), or even argue in favor of jackets as opposed to robes or cloaks (Pluseurs gens, track 11). The Gothic Voices achieve variety by assigning pieces to high or low ranges and deploying shifting groups of singers. This album is worth anyone's time for the ride through Solage's music, and it's a must for those already enamored of the Gothic Voices style.
--allmusic

QuoteGothic Voices explore songs by two 14th-century French composers. Machaut, well known to lovers of early music, represents the first half of the century; Solage, almost unknown today, represents the second half, the evolution of Ars Subtilior from Ars Nova. We can only surmise that he wrote for princely and ducal courts by names hinted at in his songs.
The opening song, Solage's ballade Le Basile, is sung at a brisk tempo by a soloist over a busy "di-di-di-di" accompaniment. Many of the ballades have a similar accompaniment, sometimes with a soprano soloist, more often a male voice. The singers manage with perfect ease the long vocalisations and rhythmic complexity of some of the ballades, for example S'aincy estoit: their performance flows as naturally as a gentle stream. Several of Machaut's virelais are particularly interesting, especially the passionate Mors sui se je ne vous voy, where two solo male voices respond to each other melodically.
Perhaps most intriguing of all is Solage's rondeau Fumeux fume par fumee. Gothic Voices take this strange song at face value and perform it at pitch with a group of the lowest male voices. They seem to suggest that these rFhe effect is astoundingly modern, entailing chromaticism and exotic modulations' singers sink into a boozy haze. But what do we know about performance practice in the 14th century? Precious little. The truth is that Solage is actually describing an existing group of poets, bent on trying to uncover the very essence of poetic imagination and creation. We hear several series of short phrases, sung sequentially, six or seven in a row, reaching the very bottom of the vocal range. The effect is astoundingly modern, entailing chromaticism and exotic modulations. It would take another 200 years before a Gesualdo might attempt anything equally exotic.
--Mary Berry, Gramophone
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on February 14, 2012, 06:05:52 AM
Lassus, Bonjour mon coeur, Capilla Flamenca
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QuoteOrlando di Lasso (1532-1594), Lassus, was the most widely-respected composer of his age. His output ranges over a wide spectrum of styles and genres – from the demotic and downright "lowly" chansons and Lieder through both secular and sacred madrigals and court music, to highly refined masses and liturgical compositions. All these forms of Lasso's music share the quality of an almost naîve joie de vivre; yet Lassus never descended to the vulgar, or ran the risk of pomposity or undue piety. Bonjour mon Cœur is a collection of what the note which accompanies the CD calls "Entertainment music of substance" by Lassus and nearly a dozen of his contemporaries... some well known, like Adrian Willaert (1490-1562); others more obscure and unrepresented elsewhere in the current catalog, like Jean de Castro (c.1540-c.1600).

Not that the teeth are in any way drawn from this music – at least not in these spirited and at the same time authoritative interpretations of Capilla Flamenca. There is a nice mix: there are gaiety, movement and elegance. And grace: the way the ensemble conveys all the emotions of the music stops well short of punchiness. Equally, they perform each work with sensitivity and style, never in any staid way.

Many of the pieces here presented are variations, "imitations", "emulations", "parodies" or "contrafacts" of works originally conceived (or indeed perhaps themselves originally borrowed) by Lassus and his contemporaries. The music remained, but a – usually sacred – text replaced a – usually secular – one. It's still hard for a post-Romantic mind to appreciate just how acceptable, how lauded even, this practice was. The CD is in fact centered around the particularly refined chanson by Ronsard, Bonjour mon Cœur. It should also be enjoyed for the lyrical beauty of the songs, which Capilla Flamenca perform with as much gravity and gentility as wit. Indeed, this is an excellent assembly of pieces illustrating the ways in which Renaissance songs dealt with love.

The way in which Capilla Flamenca expose, rather than completely sink themselves into, the songs on the CD is never either didactic or doctrinaire. Their approach comes across as well thought-out: their decision to divide the selection into four groupings corresponding to times of day (in keeping with the spirit of Bonjour mon Cœur) should better provide the listener with a framework for reacting to love's many attendant emotions... pain, exhilaration, hope, despair etc. than would a random sequence. Love awakes in the morning, becomes "exuberant" in the afternoon, eternal in the evening (all six pieces in this section are Lassus') and sleeps at night. On the whole, there are more slower and implicitly reflective works here than there are upbeat ones.

So, it's clear that great care has gone into conceiving, performing and producing this exemplary CD. Capilla Flamenca and Dirk Snellings, its director who also sings bass, are to be congratulated. The result is both entertaining and substantial. The variety of music is stimulating, and is enhanced when you know something of this contextualization. The standard of interpretation itself is very high. Unless every composer here is familiar to you, it's likely that you'll find new favorites. And, although just half the works are by Lassus himself, Bonjour mon Cœur is a good introduction to his work and the genres at which he was so expert and which he could turn to such good account.

The acoustic is close and intimate – surely the right way to present this repertoire... the plucked, wind and stringed instruments have presence and make an appropriate contribution. The "Digipak" has notes in Flemish, French, German and English – and has the texts in their original language and in translations where necessary (the songs are variously in Flemish, French, German). There is a detailed track listing, and an image of a very stern Lassus which somehow conveys his stature, as well as a photograph of the nine-person Capilla Flamenca. This is a more than merely pleasant recital. It's informative, representative of the genres whose music it contains, very persuasively performed and makes an excellent introduction to the accompanied vocal music in the sixteenth century of which Lassus was such an accomplished, imaginative and impeccably polished exponent. Recommended.

Copyright © 2010, Mark Sealey.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on February 14, 2012, 07:52:47 PM
This was part of a larger order I posted in the Purchases Today thread, but it may be of interest here:
(http://i.prs.to/t_200/harmoniamundihmc801954.jpg)
While some of the music is found in the Secret Labyrinth box, the performances are all relatively recent, recorded in concert, and there's no actual duplications from the Sony set.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on February 15, 2012, 05:56:27 AM
The Medieval Romantics, Gothic Voices

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QuoteWhen this was first issued (15:4), we had been getting Ars Subtilior music on records with some frequency. This period between Machaut and Dufay (about 1380 to 1420) had always been characterized by the fiendishly difficult notation of the sources. It seemed that notation, which had until that time been used to record musical sounds, was becoming the starting point for a composer, who began with notation on the page and left it to performers to execute what they read. It seemed possible that notation could even indicate what the voice could not execute, at least until a new level of performing mastery was achieved. Page, however, avoided this paradox by starting with the music rather than the notation, settling on Romanticism as the characteristic ideal that defines the efforts of any composers to expand their resources. To clarify his point, he widens the time period to 1340–1440, incorporating late Machaut and early Dufay for contrast. He is also frank about the ongoing issues of text underlay and use of instruments that had exercised performers and scholars for over a decade before that. He explains his approach clearly and convincingly, rejecting accompaniment and the texting of untexted vocal lines in favor of vocalizing them. Page's notes have been slightly abbreviated and shorn of footnotes.

Solage is underrepresented here with only one piece, Joieux de cuer, as is Jacob de Senleches with En ce gracieux temps joli, but covering the principal Ars Subtilior composers was not the main focus here. Margaret Philpot's solo Comment qu'a moy of Machaut is ideal, still unsurpassed today. J. de Porta's Alma polis religio/Axe poli cum artica, probably a first recording, is still the best, since duplicated only by La Reverdie (17:5) and Obsidienne (on Calliope), which both use instruments. Gilet Velut, one of the more obscure composers of the lot, is represented by Je voel servir, not recorded elsewhere, although three other pieces are found on four other discs, two of them duplicated. Johannes de Lymburgia is better known than that, for his Salve virgo is on four recordings, two of them with an additional piece, and another motet like this one is on a later Gothic Voices disc.

This is a significant disc, although it is hard not to say that about most of the score of recordings that the group made for Hyperion before Page went to Academe. The program unfolds intelligently, the music is entrancing at best (as the Machaut virelai), and the singing is ravishing. New collectors who were not around for the initial release of the series will have the benefit of the lower price when most (if not all) have been reissued. Those of us who have the originals will be satisfied that we heard them when they first blazed a new trail of performance practice. Go for it.

FANFARE: J. F. Weber

QuoteThere is a famous book which interprets the fourteenth century as the time when the Middle Ages finally went to seed like the crops in Autumn. Another describes it as 'the calamitous fourteenth century'. Small wonder, therefore, if the music composed in France during the century of Guillaume de Machaut (d1377) has often been described as 'mannerist' and 'precious': terms that suggest decadence and escapism.

The performances recorded here spring from a different view of French music during the fourteenth century, for we believe that French song of the later Ars Nova can be described by a term that is both positive and evocative: Romantic. To be sure, these songs have been called Romantic before, but it may still seem rash to speak of 'The Medieval Romantics'. Devotees of nineteenth-century music will object that there was no cult of genius in the fourteenth century, no passion for the wildness of Nature and no such nationalism as we associate with the 1800s. And yet if Romanticism implies a taste for beauty touched by strangeness, and if it is associated with a desire to expand the resources of musical language (and especially of harmony) with sheer profligacy of invention, then the second half of the fourteenth century in France was truly a period of Romantic composition.

This is not to say that every composer of the period was a Romantic artist. Most of the polyphonic songs produced in France between c1340 and c1400 are light and melodious, being neither 'wayward' (a term often used of this repertory) nor Romantic. The virelai Mais qu'il vous viengne a plaisance is a representative example of this style at its best. Nonetheless, in addition to these plainer songs we find others, many of them attributed to named composers, which reveal different priorities.

With the Romanticism of the fourteenth century—as with that of the nineteenth—a major priority is the sheer scale of what is attempted. To hear a thirteenth-century motet such as Quant voi le douz tans/En Mai/[Immo]LATUS, followed immediately by the four-part motet Alma polis religio/Axe poli/Tenor/Contratenor of the next century, is to sense that there has been a great expansion in the musical territory colonized for composition. The later work is longer, its harmonic language more studied but also more diversified, and its compass much wider (reaching two octaves, the limit of the human voice according to contemporary theorists). With its complex isorhythmic scheme, it is altogether a more grandiose and intellectually ambitious work than its thirteenth-century counterpart.

In the chanson repertoire of rondeaux, virelais and ballades, where the Romanticism of the later Ars Nova is principally to be found, the desire for expansive musical conceptions was closely allied (as it was to be five hundred years later) to an enlarged conception of melody. As early as the twelfth century, of course, some monophonic songs of the trouvères (not to mention some Latin songs) had been supplied with expansive, melismatic melodies, but the desire to stretch a long, measured melody over a large polyphonic frame was new in the fourteenth century. Among French composers of the Ars Nova this produced compositions going far beyond what could be accomplished in a thirteenth-century piece such as the motet just mentioned, Quant voi le douz tans/En Mai/[Immo]LATUS. In that piece, as it is performed on this recording, we hear first a monophonic song with its roots in the trouvère tradition, and then the same song as it was given mensural rhythm and placed above a vocalized tenor to make a motet, perhaps around 1240. As far as we can discern—for the origins of the polyphonic chanson in the fourteenth century are still obscure—this is one of the textures which passed to the fourteenth century and which helped to form the basis of chansons such as Guillaume de Machaut's Tant doucement me sens emprisonnes, here performed as a duet comprising the Cantus and (vocalized) Tenor to display the mastery of Machaut's two-part technique. The comparison with the thirteenth-century motet shows that the musical scope of Machaut's piece is much greater than the Triplum–Tenor duet of the motet, largely because Machaut's Cantus is so vast and needs so little support from the text. The thirteenth-century composer works syllable by syllable, but Machaut's melismatic melody is directed, in particular, by a rhythmic elasticity which is entirely new to the fourteenth century and which merits comparison with some of the freedoms that were also 'new' in the nineteenth.

We hear this freedom again in the highly flexible melodic line of the anonymous virelai Je languis d'amere mort, or in the Cantus of Paolo da Firenze's Sofrir m'estuet et plus non puis durer. Paolo's piece demonstrates that the supposedly wayward rhythms of fourteenth-century song can be lyrical, even lilting, in their effect upon the ear, however strange they may look to the eye. In a similar way, the phrase-lengths in the Cantus of Quiconques veut d'amors joïr, a superb piece by an anonymous master, are so supple that they resist 'the tyranny of the bar line' at every turn.

There were many experiments with harmony among the medieval Romantics. As we leave the thirteenth century and enter the fourteenth century we become more confident that unusual harmonic effects may be tokens of a colouristic interest in harmony rather than the by-products of a compositional method. That kind of interest in harmony could coexist with the cerebral and calculating tendencies of all medieval composing, and indeed it could be advanced by them. The composer of Alma polis religio/Axe poli/Tenor/Contratenor, for example, is fascinated by a chord of Bb–G–D–G, and he exploits his isorhythmic scheme in such a way that the top three notes sound alone—so that the ear processes a simple chord of G—and then the low B flat enters in the Contratenor to tint the sonority in a most unexpected way. Many other examples could be cited from the pieces recorded here, but the master in this art is Solage, a composer who has left only ten securely attributed works, all of them experimental in various ways, and a high proportion of them in four parts (relatively rare in the chanson repertoire of the Ars Nova). His virelai Joieux de cuer en seumellant estoye, in four parts, is perhaps the summit of fourteenth-century Romanticism. The Cantus—the only part bearing the text—is a vast melody both in terms of its length and its width; it regularly spans a tenth or an eleventh within a few measures, a distance acknowledged by fourteenth-century theorists such as Jacques de Liège to represent the workable (if not the absolute) limit of the human voice. The other three parts are highly vocal in character, or in contemporary terminology, dicibilis (literally 'pronouncable'). It is the essence of Solage's achievement in this piece that the textless parts seem to strain towards the beauty and sufficiency of Cantus-style melody.

What signs are there that medieval composers recognized that the later fourteenth century had produced composers of profligate inventiveness—musicians who had lent a touch of strangeness to beauty? The surest indication that composers of the fifteenth century recognized that something very striking had happened in the recent past is to be found in the kinds of pieces that they chose to produce themselves. The highly controlled scale and harmonic language of chansons such as Dufay's Je requier a tous amoureux, the same composer's Las, que feray? Ne que je devenray? or Gilet Velut's Je voel servir plus c'onques mais, are characteristic of much early fifteenth-century secular music and may be interpreted as a reaction against the luxuriance of later fourteenth-century composers such as Solage. When we turn to a mature composition of the mid-1430s, Johannes de Lymburgia's Tota pulcra es, amica mea, we find a four-part technique completely unlike that of Solage. Lymburgia's harmony is rigorously controlled so that almost every vertical sonority is a consonance, thirds and sixths are crucial building blocks of the music and fleeting rests are inserted in the texture to avoid dissonant colours that the 'Medieval Romantics' would have prized.

Christopher Page © 1991
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on February 17, 2012, 02:26:25 AM
The Study of Love: French Songs & Motets of the 14th Century, Gothic Voices

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QuoteThis recording completes a three-part series featuring the songs and motets of the French Ars Nova, initiated by The Medieval Romantics (Helios CDH55293), and continued by Lancaster and Valois (Helios CDH55294). The title of this third recording is the most pertinent of all, for the poets and composers of fourteenth-century France did indeed regard love as a study. Our cover illustration is a reminder that the narrative poets of the period often present themselves as retiring individuals who have learned all they know of love from books. When the poet of La grant biauté speaks of 'Nature', for example, he uses a personification enriched by several centuries of thought and imagination in both Latin and vernacular (Chaucer's Parlement of Fowles provides a fine example in Middle English), while figures such as 'Envie', 'Desir' and 'Amours', ubiquitous in these poems, evoke the tradition of the narrative romances whose authors were expected to share their knowledge of Biblical and classical story with their readers. If the scholar shown on our cover were not St Jerome, one might imagine him to be a poet checking his knowledge of Marticius (for Marticius qui fu), the basilisk (for Le basile), Euclid and Pygmalion (for Fist on, dame) or the labyrinth that Daedalus made for Minos (for En la maison Dedalus).

The musical resources displayed in these pieces are extensive. Puis que l'aloe ne fine has the kind of sinuous melody, with musical phrases of unpredictable length and momentary flashes of musica ficta colour, that French composers of the Ars Nova always loved; we find similar qualities in La grant biauté, Combien que j'aye and Renouveler me feïst, this last being one of the earliest 'New Year' songs in the repertory. Several pieces in four parts, particularly the anonymous Jour a jour (a popular work to judge by the number of surviving copies) and Le basile, by Solage, reveal the desire for sweet and consonant harmony, occasionally embittered by moments of dissonance, which characterizes a good deal of fourteenth-century French writing in four parts. Particularly striking, perhaps, are the two pieces in the 'B flat' tonality (that is to say with a double flat signature) that was especially favoured by composers in the decades around 1400. Of these two songs, Marticius qui fu and Fist on, dame, the first owes something to the mature style of Machaut in the rhythmic gestures of its texted voice. Both are robust compositions with almost swaggering melodies.

Guillaume de Machaut is featured on all three recordings of this series. Trop plus / Biauté paree / Je ne suis is a three-part motet that welcomes a very sprightly performance. Many years ago, David Munrow recorded the piece at a very slow tempo; this brings out the dissonances but may sometimes deprive the cross-rhythms and fragmented musical phrases of their excitement. Dame, je vueil endurer and Se mesdisans are drawn from Machaut's collection of monophonic virelais, a variety of music which only Machaut chose to produce and notate in the fourteenth century and which invariably, as here, reveals his distinctive musical voice. In a similar way, Tres bonne et belle could not be the work of any other Ars Nova composer; its palette of dissonant colours, with prominent fourths and sevenths, seems distinctively Mascaudian.

Il me convient guerpir is one of the latest pieces. Probably dating from the early fifteenth century, it is a distinguished member of a small group of songs composed for two equal voices. Finally, there is the Gloria by Pycard. It belongs here in that Pycard was apparently a Frenchman, although his music is only known from the English Old Hall Manuscript, and his rhythmic intricacies recall the French Ars subtilior. In rhythmic terms, this Gloria is one of the most complex mass compositions in the entire medieval repertory; at times, the upper voices travel so far away from the basic tactus or 'beat', and the lower voices, holding sustained notes, do so little to assert it, that all sense of metrical organization is lost. I hope that the pieces by Pycard recorded for this series will help to establish the reputation of this extraordinary artist as one of the leading composers of his generation.

Christopher Page © 1992
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 17, 2012, 05:11:10 PM
The third of the Obsidian releases arrrived today and I hope to give the twofer a good first listen over this 4-day weekend ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51i-CpTPbJL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 17, 2012, 07:29:21 PM
Here is another one that has been sitting around a bit long which I hope to have a first listen this weekend ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QfzjobidL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 17, 2012, 08:10:11 PM
This 3-CD set arrived yesterday and is a wonderful addition to my ever expanding early music collection ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TbhYCgfOL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 17, 2012, 11:44:15 PM
Quote from: chasmaniac on February 10, 2012, 02:24:32 AM
Guillaume de Machaut, Messe de Nostre Dame, by Diabolus in Musica

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Anyone able to make a brief comparison between this and the recordings that I have, by Ensemble Gilles Binchois (Harmonic/Cantus) and Ensemble Organum (HM)? :) And then there is the new recording by Ensemble Musica Nova (Aeon)- there are too many! :o :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on February 18, 2012, 03:22:45 AM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on February 17, 2012, 11:44:15 PM
Anyone able to make a brief comparison between this and the recordings that I have, by Ensemble Gilles Binchois (Harmonic/Cantus) and Ensemble Organum (HM)? :) And then there is the new recording by Ensemble Musica Nova (Aeon)- there are too many! :o :)

Q

I wish I could say something useful here, Que, but I don't think I can. The Organum recording I don't know, but there are 5 I do know.

Vellard and Diabolus provide a musical/liturgical context. The Hilliards, Musica Nova and the Orlandos do not, but present it as is. Even for its time, the Messe is a strange, dark work. I think it benefits, then, from clearer, more muscular treatments. Vellard, the Orlandos and Diabolus come closest to this. The Hilliards, as usual, are too measured and reverberant, and I'm afraid Musica Nova follows that path. The Orlandos disc has the great benefit of juxtaposing Machaut with modern work by O'Regan and Bryar here:

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Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 18, 2012, 01:34:25 PM
Quote from: ~ Que ~ on February 17, 2012, 11:44:15 PM
Anyone able to make a brief comparison between this and the recordings that I have, by Ensemble Gilles Binchois (Harmonic/Cantus) and Ensemble Organum (HM)? :) And then there is the new recording by Ensemble Musica Nova (Aeon)- there are too many! :o :)

Q

Q,  Unfortunately, we have opened this Pandora's box called early music ...   :o
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on February 21, 2012, 02:29:24 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MJ6S6RRTL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Starting the day with gorgeous voices.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on February 21, 2012, 02:53:25 AM
Guillaume Dufay, Flos Florum: Motets, Hymnes, Antiennes, Ensemble Musica Nova

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QuoteStudents and others who set themselves to the task of understanding the initially elusive musical language of the Renaissance often learn about Dufay and the cantus firmus -- the preexisting chant or song around which a mass was built -- and about his mathematically dizzying isorhythmic motet Nuper rosarum flores. The more intimate sacred motet, directly expressive of its text, seems to be more the province of Josquin Desprez, two generations later; Dufay's motets, many of which address Mary, are rather tough going for the newcomer. They are not closely tied to the text like the motets of Josquin, and even those that have a cantus firmus don't feature it as an obvious unifying device the way Dufay's masses do.

This superb French disc is the one that clarifies what Dufay's motets are all about. This may not knock Beethoven and Andrea Bocelli off the top of the classical charts, but anyone with an interest in the rather arcane musical language of the early Flemish-Italian Renaissance, or even in the art of the period, should add this disc to his or her library. The Ensemble Musica Nova strives for absolute clarity of texture. It sings a cappella (as Dufay himself is thought to have preferred), with text added to the untexted lower parts for greater intelligibility. The group sings precisely but in a relaxed fashion that gets across the crucial sense of when a line of the polyphony is being ornamented by the composer -- the sense of expression in Dufay's music is very much bound up with ornament and rhythm, which most performances don't communicate very well. The "flowers" referred to in the texts -- Mary, the city of Florence -- seem almost to burst from the music, which may seem remarkable to anyone who has sat through a lot of dull Dufay performances, but sample the first or the third track. (English text translations in the booklet do not, unfortunately, run parallel with the Latin and French, but follow them at the end.) The booklet notes are rather dense, not always smoothly translated ("to sing of death enabled musicians and poets to suggest a filiation"?) and confusingly divided into two separate essays, one dealing with the allusive quality of Dufay's texts and the other delving into musical structure and into what Dufay's audiences would have listened for in the two types of motets represented here, the motet with cantus firmus and the freely composed "song motet." The notes may be a hard slog for those without some previous knowledge of the subject, but effort expended in understanding them will bring these pieces alive and deepen the listener's perception of Dufay as the composer, perhaps more than any other, who lay right at the emergence of the idea of individual musical expression that is taken for granted today. The disc can also be appreciated for its sensuous surfaces alone, and Mornant church where the music was recorded could not have been more appropriate to the performers' aims. An essential choice for libraries -- the disc really furnishes enough material for an upper-level or graduate class all by itself -- or for Renaissance collections.
--allmusic
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on February 22, 2012, 06:03:42 AM
Guillaume Dufay, Mille Bonjours!, Diabolus in Musica

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QuoteDufay, writing in fifteenth century, is a figure of greater variety (and much greater profundity, for that matter) than is often realized. Attracting an enormous following and widespread admiration in Europe throughout his long lifetime, he wrote primarily for the church: Dufay was an ordained priest. But he used many forms – from elaborate and florid polyphonic masses to simple songs. And secular songs at that: over 80 survive which may in part or whole be safely attributed to the composer. If it is possible to generalize, one would say that Dufay's earlier songs were more extrovert, happier, upbeat, than those composed before the trials his life brought him; the later works tend to be reflective, morose even.

These songs generally date from two distinct periods in Dufay's life... from his late teens in 1414, 1415 on his leaving Cambrai to travel to various European courts, where he would have heard a variety of styles from England and Italy as well as France; this lasted until 1439, when Dufay returned to Cambrai. Duties at the Burgundian court and the cathedral virtually precluded any but liturgical compositions – until after Dufay's move, after 1451, to the court of Duke Louis and Duchess Anne of Savoy, whom we know to have been lively patrons of also the kind of secular music, the chansons by Dufay, some of which form the substance of this atmospheric, well-performed and appropriately-contextualized CD from Diabolus in Musica.

The majority of Dufay's output of this kind is rondeaux (with some ballades) for three (some for four) voices. The rest mostly follow such established structures as the ballade, bergerette/virelai and the like. Two tenors take the parts of the fundamental voice part (tenor), superius with the main text line; and a high voice the contratenor for additional color. These are taken by Raphaël Boulay (tenor), Frédéric Betous and Andrès Rojas-Urrego (altos) and Aïno Lund-Lavoipierre (soprano). They sing with unfussed enthusiasm, sweetness and an accurate and expressive articulation that seems to come from within the music's spirit, rather than gliding along the top of the melody as has happened with some recent Dufay recordings. This is highly effective. Nor – whatever your reservations about accompaniment – are the clavicytherium (an early spinet with as much hammer noise as sweet key sounds), gittern (plucked strings) and vièle (medieval fiddle) intrusive or superfluous. Their euphonic, low key adds a mellow tinge to the singing. It's worth noting that Guerber, the author of the essay in the accompanying booklet, disputes the work of recent musicologists and suggests that there is little or no evidence for an a cappella (unaccompanied) performing tradition, and cites Patterns in Play (by Graeme Boone) in support of what will be a somewhat controversial conclusion.

Technically what Dufay does to develop the achievements of the earlier and by now defunct Ars Subtilior is remarkable. Not only because of the inventiveness of theme, texture and melody; but also in terms of contrapuntal rhythm, the beauty of the effects and the fitness of music to words.

Those texts were almost all in the French of his day (only a handful were in Italian); although there are settings of Petrarch, Le Rousselet and Perinet etc, it is probable that Dufay wrote much of his own poetry.

The recording is a nice, close and intimate one with perfect balance between singers and the four instrumentalists playing here. The text of all the songs is printed in French and English in a useful, glossy booklet in the Alpha 'digipak' with candid photographs of the performances and performers. Guerber makes some interesting speculations on just who would have performed such songs as these and suggests that those retained for sacred music were unlikely also to have worked on the songs we hear on this CD. Less because of any distinction between the sobriety of the one and the freer and easier often dance-inspired ways of the other, than between the type of skills and traditions on which each broad genre was based.

So, if this is repertoire which in any way interests you, here is a first class introduction. If you're already persuaded of Dufay's greatness, you'll want to extend your exposure to his secular music. If medieval song performed exquisitely and idiomatically in unpretentious and direct manner, then do not hesitate to buy this CD. Thoroughly recommended.

Copyright © 2008, Mark Sealey

And this from the inimitable Bruno:

QuoteWithout a moment's doubt, I can say that this is the best-performed CD of Dufay's secular chansons that I've ever heard, with 19 of those supremely sophisticated miniature masterpieces assembled in a concert progress from love-sickness to joie-de-vivre. This recording is a perfect companion to Diabolus in Musica's CD of Dufay's most memorable mass, Missa Se La Face Ay Pale (which I've reviewed previously. Wonder of wonders, the chanson Se La Face Ay Pale is included on this disk, in an elaborated "keyboard" setting from a tablature manuscript, played on an instrument that worked somewhat like a harpsichord and sounds rather like a harp on energy drinks. The singers have to share glory in this performance with some extraordinarily skillful playing of late Medieval instruments: vielle (fiddle) and Burgundian harp especially. But there's plenty of glory to be shared.

The name of this ensemble - Diabolus in Musica - would probably get this CD banned from certain libraries in Alaska, but actually the term refers to the interval of the tritone (the augmented fourth) which either in chords or in scale passages caused innumerable headaches for polyphonists, always sounding "wrong' to their ears. The solution involved something called "musica ficta", the addition of a sharp or a flat to avoid the tritone. Such ficta were seldom notated; the performer was expected to recognize the need and to know the rules. Rest assured that Ensemble Diabolus in Musica is totally avoidant of devilish dissonances.

The secular chanson repertoire, from Machaut to Dufay, is the prime glory of Medieval music, as pre-eminent as the madrigal in the late Renaissance or the polka at a Minnesota family reunion.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on February 22, 2012, 06:12:22 AM
I need Bruno to recommend me some polka CDs.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on February 22, 2012, 06:17:22 AM
Quote from: The new erato on February 22, 2012, 06:12:22 AM
I need Bruno to recommend me some polka CDs.

:D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on February 22, 2012, 06:35:27 AM
I apologize in advance for its unavailability, but this recording of (what I take to be) obscure German music of the pre-Baroque era is perfectly gorgeous, and deserved a better fate than to be quickly and completely forgotten upon release, "dropped stillborn from the press", in Hume's piquant mot. You might find it on BRO - I did.

Ich rühm dich Heidelberg, I Ciarlatani

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Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 22, 2012, 05:08:26 PM
Quote from: Bogey on February 21, 2012, 02:29:24 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MJ6S6RRTL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Starting the day with gorgeous voices.

Bill,  I have this CD in my collection.  It is excellent IMO ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on February 23, 2012, 09:17:51 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on February 22, 2012, 05:08:26 PM
Bill,  I have this CD in my collection.  It is excellent IMO ...

The A4 cds are some of my favorite, Stuart.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on February 24, 2012, 07:52:45 AM
One of my all-time favourites of any stripe,

The Mirror of Narcissus: Songs by Guillaume de Machaut, Gothic Voices

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Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on March 03, 2012, 08:00:06 AM
Now listening:

[asin]B00000J9GR[/asin]

An oldie, but a goodie.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on March 03, 2012, 06:04:23 PM
Quote from: Bogey on March 03, 2012, 08:00:06 AM
Now listening:

[asin]B00000J9GR[/asin]

An oldie, but a goodie.

Any works by David Munrow on this twofer?  I bought the following twofer a few weeks ago and it is wonderful ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QfzjobidL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on March 03, 2012, 06:31:58 PM
Quote from: Coopmv on March 03, 2012, 06:04:23 PM
Any works by David Munrow on this twofer?  I bought the following twofer a few weeks ago and it is wonderful ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QfzjobidL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Two different groups, two different time periods.   There's about (speaking very roughly) a three hundred year gap between the music on the Munrow disc and the music on the Tallis Scholars disc.  [ETA: the Philips duo is composed solely of performances by the Tallis Scholars, including their nearly divine performance of Spem in Alium.   SiA and most of the other performances have been issued again (and sometimes again and again) on their own label, Gimell.]

The Tallis Scholars recording was both my introduction to Renassiance music and the start of my infatuation with the Tallis Scholars.

The Munrow recording is also another classic performance, although I rarely listen to it, as music from that era appeals to me much less than music from the later Middle Ages/Renaissance.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on March 03, 2012, 06:50:30 PM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on March 03, 2012, 06:31:58 PM


The Tallis Scholars recording was both my introduction to Renassiance music and the start of my infatuation with the Tallis Scholars.


Thanks for fielding that one.  This twofer was my intro as well. 

I have a ripping headache right now, but still wanted to listen to music.  Going with this, which seems to be countering it a bit....very beautiful:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51GQ3E7ZRQL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 03, 2012, 11:59:08 PM
.[asin]B0011R8UPS[/asin]

A beauty! :) Some brief comments: Nicholas Ludford was a new name to me, he was a contemporary of John Taverner. This seems very worthy music - what makes Ludford stand out in comparison with the English tradition of ethereal, long-spun movements, is the variation in settings and rhythmic treatment, which makes everything very expressive. But we still get the "heavenly" smooth sound, here including boys' voice, which is a big plus in this repertoire IMO. The 1st recording to do so, according to the booklet. Performance could occasionally a bit more tightly knit, but the recording was made at a festival so it comes with the territory. The recording got a Gramophone award in 2008. Here is the review:

Quote
Its a long while since David Fallows welcomed The Cardinall's Musick's recording debut with superlatives (ASV, 7/93). Ludford's six-voice festal Mass cycle on 1/Idete miraculum was followed by three other volumes, but these seemed not to quite fulfil the promise of the first; so the chance to hear again his other sixvoice settings is most welcome. Though not as showy as Taverner, his more understated idiom is every bit as persuasive. Repeated listening reveals great subtlety in the handling of texture, an exhilarating sense of confidence in formal planning, and real melodic inspiration. The opening of each movement is identical, and excludes the trebles, whose subsequent appearance in a different context is nicely managed. From the point of view of repertoire this is a major issue.
I've long admired New College's trebles, and here they show how much young singers can achieve in the way of cohesiveness, coherence and sheer persuasiveness of melodic shape. That speaks volumes, considering that, of all the
English choral repertory written for trebles, this is perhaps the most difficult for today's youngsters to master. I'd invite listeners to compare them to the recent recording by their near-neighbours Christ Church College of that cornerstone of this repertory, Taverner's Musa Glori tibi trinitas (Avie, 10/07), in which the trebles seemed to me to lack this sense of line, of unanimity of purpose. Here it's difficult to argue that adult female singers are demonstrably better equipped than boys: the advantage of bigger lungs is offset by the careful choice and placement of breaths. For the rest, I've always held that the tone of these particular trebles is anyway expressive in itself. More, please.

Review from AllMusic by James Mannheim:

QuoteNicholas Ludford was a British contemporary of John Taverner, active during the first half of the sixteenth century. His music has only recently been unearthed, and based on this recording one can say it was not only worth the trouble but might even cause some rewriting in the history books. The main attraction is the six-voice Missa Benedicta et Venerabilis, which (like other English Renaissance masses) lacks a Kyrie and is sung with appropriate office chants between the polyphonic choral movements. What is most startling is the sheer expressivity of a good deal of the music. The Incarnatus, Crucifixus, and the almost abrupt, exuberant Et Resurrexit and conclusion of the Credo (track 6) are good places to start. Ludford reduces the texture to three or four voices and seems to focus on specific passages of text in a way that brings to mind no one as much as Josquin; this in a compositional world thought to be dominated by monumental, abstract polyphony. The music employs rhythmic shifts and some striking vertical sonorities, all again seemingly linked with the text, and the text-setting has some really outlandish details: Ludford likes, for instance, to kick off a cadential drive with the last syllable of the penultimate phrase of text rather than with the final phrase or "Amen." Oddly enough, the two votive anthems surrounding the mass are more conventional in style. The venerable New College Choir Oxford (men and boys), which was around when this music was composed, delivers a strong reading, with the boy trebles getting into the meaty spirit of the work and more than making up for occasional slips to the flat side of the tone in what is certainly quite difficult music to sing, and the recording ambiance of a church in the northeastern French town of Sarrebourg is ideal. An important find for devotees of English religious music or the Renaissance mass.

This is one Ludford's "festal masses" A complete set under Carwood and the Cardinall's Musick, consisting of 4 discs was issued by ASV, but is now OP. I looked into it, but read a comment that subsequent volumes didn't live up to the promises of the 1s volume... So I leave it be for now - maybe other members can comment on that set? :)

(http://cover7.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/98/202798.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Leon on March 04, 2012, 03:02:35 AM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on March 03, 2012, 06:31:58 PM
Two different groups, two different time periods.   ...  music from that era appeals to me much less than music from the later Middle Ages/Renaissance.

I was just turning this idea over in my mind last night as I was listening to some music from the late 16th-17th C.  I find it hard to keep the composers set in their time, and the spans for Medieval and Renaissance and the stylistic differences are so large they are almost meaningless. E.g., I find I tend to think of Dufay (early 1400s, usually included in Renassaince) having more in common with Machaut (~ 100 years prior)  than say, Gesualdo (~ 100 years later), or composers from the late Renaissance.

I like so much from Machaut and the troubadours and even earlier that I don't think I can say definitively that music from the Renaissance is more liked than from the Medieval, but I think I know what you mean.  There seems to be more variety with the Renaissance.  And it may be that I like the principles of composition of the Middle Ages so much, e.g. isorhythm, and my judgment is not based entirely on the sound of the music. 

It is all such wonderful music that I refuse to say which period is more pleasing to me than the other.

:)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on March 04, 2012, 03:42:05 AM
Quote from: Arnold on March 04, 2012, 03:02:35 AM


It is all such wonderful music that I refuse to say which period is more pleasing to me than the other.

:)

Quote of the year. :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: KeithW on March 05, 2012, 12:01:15 PM
Quote from: Que on March 03, 2012, 11:59:08 PM


This is one Ludford's "festal masses" A complete set under Carwood and the Cardinall's Musick, consisting of 4 discs was issued by ASV, but is now OP. I looked into it, but read a comment that subsequent volumes didn't live up to the promises of the 1s volume... So I leave it be for now - maybe other members can comment on that set? :)

(http://cover7.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/98/202798.jpg)

Q

I was fortunate to obtain this set a few years ago - I would need to go back and listen again, but recall that the whole set was a joy - as with almost everything Cardinall's Musick has produced.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on March 06, 2012, 04:51:43 PM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on March 03, 2012, 06:31:58 PM
Two different groups, two different time periods.   There's about (speaking very roughly) a three hundred year gap between the music on the Munrow disc and the music on the Tallis Scholars disc.  [ETA: the Philips duo is composed solely of performances by the Tallis Scholars, including their nearly divine performance of Spem in Alium.   SiA and most of the other performances have been issued again (and sometimes again and again) on their own label, Gimell.]

The Tallis Scholars recording was both my introduction to Renassiance music and the start of my infatuation with the Tallis Scholars.

The Munrow recording is also another classic performance, although I rarely listen to it, as music from that era appeals to me much less than music from the later Middle Ages/Renaissance.

I pretty much have purchased all the recordings by the Tallis Scholars on the Gimell label ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on March 07, 2012, 05:11:16 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41fAsfrr%2BBL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Just landed and spinning as I type.  If you dig Spanish Renaissance, then snag this one for under 10 bones.  I would like to tell you more about the selections, but the liner notes are nonexistent.  However, purchase with confidence.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on March 11, 2012, 03:10:42 PM
Great news, Sweelinck's complete vocal works are currently in progress, published by Glossa:

http://www.amazon.com/Secular-Vocal-Works-Sweelinck/dp/B00284G2SA/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1331507208&sr=8-7

For those of low moral fiber, or for those who are simply too strapped on cash, the series is being currently being posted at Axahome.

According to the Sweelinck's biography i've read, his best vocal works are supposed to be the Psalms of David, but those have always received less attention then the Cantiones Sacrae, which are supposed to be less complex harmonically. This series should take care of that once and for all.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 18, 2012, 12:50:09 AM
The Sweelinck series has already been issued in its entirety in a Dutch language edition (http://www.jpsweelinck.nl/cd-editie).

Quote from: KeithW on March 05, 2012, 12:01:15 PM
I was fortunate to obtain this set a few years ago - I would need to go back and listen again, but recall that the whole set was a joy - as with almost everything Cardinall's Musick has produced.

Thanks! :)

Now a short note on this disc:

[asin]B00015OOI8[/asin]

Hans Leo Hassler (http://www.allmusic.com/artist/hans-leo-hassler-q2716/biography) is new to me. Key factor here is that Hassler studied in Venice and was influenced by Giovanni & Andrea Gabrieli as well as Roland de Lassus, and was instrumental in the influence of the Italian choral tradition on German music. Schutz built on that heritage.

Well, my conclusion upon hearing is: if you like Schutz, you'll like Hassler. Very pretty, in the sober Lutheran style akin the Schutz' works, though Hassler is a bit mellower, sweeter. Perhasp that is enhanced by Herreweghe's approach, which is as sensuous as ever. Read up on Bruno Giordano's excellent review on Amazon HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Hassler-Missa-Ensemble-Europeen-Herreweghe/product-reviews/B00015OOI8/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1)! :)  He finds Herreweghe in this recording, despite this repertoire being outside his usual field of expertise, in top-form. The only small caveat is that Herreweghe uses bigger forces (not one-to-part) than necessary or preferable for this repertoire. I fully agree - though maybe not a must for everone, this recording is heartily recommended. Superb stuff. 8)

Recordings of Hassler's music are extremely thin on the ground, but there is this newly reissued 2CDset on Etcetera, previously available on Eufoda:

[asin]B004A8VTB2[/asin]

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on March 18, 2012, 04:54:32 PM
Just picked up my third recording of this:

(https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTfmOpN5xnfln0rdmf_L0f4xpNr23LHrJ65Of5tVx0CnrKLRK4C)

Different, but very enjoyable.  There was a "sacred" set from Hyperion that I want to look into.  Anyone here have any cds from that set?

Another that I have been spinning that is top-shelf is:

[asin]B0002IPZ7S[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on March 18, 2012, 05:41:16 PM
Not a more beautiful voice than Kirkby's to end the evening:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Q4oCBi-iL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: coffee on March 21, 2012, 08:50:46 AM
Quote from: Coopmv on March 06, 2012, 04:51:43 PM
I pretty much have purchased all the recordings by the Tallis Scholars on the Gimell label ...

What are your 10 or so favorite?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on March 24, 2012, 03:31:48 PM
Quote from: Bogey on March 18, 2012, 05:41:16 PM
Not a more beautiful voice than Kirkby's to end the evening:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Q4oCBi-iL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Yeah, here is another fan of Emma - have been a fan for over 20 years ...  ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on March 24, 2012, 04:05:45 PM
Quote from: coffee on March 21, 2012, 08:50:46 AM
What are your 10 or so favorite?

I enjoyed all the works by Tallis, Byrd and Tomkins in no particular order ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on March 25, 2012, 03:47:57 PM
Guillaume Dufay, Missa 'Se la face ay pale'

[asin]B00019EYQG[/asin]

QuoteGuillaume Dufay's Missa se la face ay pale is one of the earliest examples of a Mass being thematically based on the melody of a secular song. All who perform this masterpiece are indebted somewhat to David Munrow, whose ground-breaking 1973 EMI (now Virgin) recording with the Early Music Consort of London remains the standard by which all are judged. In the notes, Diabolus in Musica (The Devil in Music) director Antoine Guerber dedicates this performance to Munrow's memory (he committed suicide in 1976) and describes first listening to Munrow's performance 20 years ago both as a revelation and as a key factor that inspired his love of medieval music. That humble acknowledgment aside, Guerber and colleagues also pay homage to Munrow's legacy in the most important of ways--by offering arguably the best performance of this work since that of his mentor.

Unlike Munrow, who in his recording offered Dufay's original chanson and only the five primary sections of the Mass, occasionally augmented with instrumentation, Guerber takes a more purist, authentic approach. He not only eschews instrumentation, but also for a more complete presentation reconstructs the piece as was customary during the period, adding other sacred elements (in this case the Proper for Trinity Sunday). Other performers have completed their versions in similar fashion, but in comparison to Diabolus in Musica, the harmonics and textural balances suffer because of the often unorthodox ensemble sizes. For example, the four otherwise vocally outstanding members of the Hilliard Ensemble sound insufficiently thin and austere. Binkley's full choral arrangement (Focus) impresses, though it goes to the other extreme by sounding equally disproportionate. In Guerber's version the balances and clarity are absolutely perfect. There are many moments--though especially in the Credo and Sanctus--where the ensemble's sensuous expression of Dufay's complex polyphony can only be described as a religious experience.


Alpha's sound is gorgeous--richly detailed yet not at the expense of a naturally illusionistic acoustic setting. Guerber's notes are a joy to read, and as usual, Alpha's presentation is first class. Given the caliber of these performances, perhaps Guerber will inspire others to play and listen to this repertoire much as Munrow did before him.

--John Greene, ClassicsToday.com
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Leon on March 26, 2012, 10:16:09 AM
This

[asin]B00000204S[/asin]

:)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 26, 2012, 10:27:20 PM
Quote from: Philippe de Vitry on March 26, 2012, 10:16:09 AM
This

[asin]B00000204S[/asin]

:)

Looked for more info on the composer and found a helpful biography (http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/vitry.php).

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on March 27, 2012, 02:23:17 AM
Quote from: Que on March 26, 2012, 10:27:20 PM
Looked for more info on the composer and found a helpful biography (http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/vitry.php).

Q

See upthread, reply #369.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Leon on March 27, 2012, 02:47:42 AM
Quote from: chasmaniac on March 27, 2012, 02:23:17 AM
See upthread, reply #369.

He is under represented in the catalog, in my opinion. 

:)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on March 27, 2012, 03:00:08 AM
Quote from: Philippe de Vitry on March 27, 2012, 02:47:42 AM
He is under represented in the catalog, in my opinion. 

:)

I'd like to agree. The album you cite is gorgeous. But there seems to be a problem securely ascribing works to Vitry.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Leon on March 27, 2012, 03:41:44 AM
Quote from: chasmaniac on March 27, 2012, 03:00:08 AM
I'd like to agree. The album you cite is gorgeous. But there seems to be a problem securely ascribing works to Vitry.

True, but there is more evidence for him than most of the period.  Here's part (there's considerably more, I just grabbed the first two graphs) of the Grove entry about his works and detective work on making attributions.

Apart from the special case of Machaut, most 14th-century music survives anonymously. Only two works are attributed in any musical source to Vitry. One of these (Impudenter circuivi/Virtutibus) was in F-Sm 222 (burned in 1871), the other (O canenda/Rex quem) is in a fragment (CH-Fcu Z 260) whose authority may be somewhat undermined in that its other piece is misattributed to Machaut. In Vitry we encounter a well-known public figure of formidable learning and authority whose general culture and musical composition are attested in a wide range of extra-musical sources, encouraging the enterprise of identifying his music among anonymously transmitted pieces. Vitry's stature not only as a theorist but as a composer was first revived by Besseler, the first to attribute (eight) anonymous motets to him. Schrade extended this list to the 14 (plus one without music) in his edition.

The evidence on which modern scholars have proposed such identifications includes internal evidence from the poetic texts, such as the authorial 'hec concino Philippus' of Cum statua/Hugo, and the possibly self-referential 'concinat Gallus' in Tribum/Quoniam. The vituperative style that seems to be characteristic of Vitry may be reflected in vocabulary. Citations in treatises and literary sources are also taken as evidence for his authorship: motet titles are cited in three chapters of Ars nova, one on variations between perfect and imperfect modus and tempus, one on the use of red notes. Now that this treatise's connection to Vitry has been loosened, an earlier notion, itself questionable, that such self-citation guaranteed his authorship of a group of works including some of the Fauvel motets, fades further, while not disqualifying their attribution on other grounds. Douce/Garison is mentioned by Gaces de la Bugne as a work of Vitry's, naming him also as Bishop of Meaux (thus dating the mention after 1351); Kügle interpreted this reference as indicating an early work. Cum statua/Hugo and Vos/Gratissima are attributed to Vitry in the Quatuor principalia. The manuscript F-Pn lat.3343 contains the ballade De terre en grec Gaulle appellee, and also presents the texts of Phi millies Deus pulcherrime/O Creator, for which no music survives, and the triplum text of Petre clemens/Lugentium with the ascription 'hunc motetum fecit Philippus de Vitriaco pro papa Clemente', an ascription now corroborated by Wathey (1993) with a precise dating. Transmission of motet texts without music but with attribution to Vitry has also been taken as evidence of his authorship of these motets. The implication that he wrote his own texts is corroborated by parallel passages in motets, and in books from his library with those passages marked or annotated by him. Tribum/Quoniam has now been more firmly linked with Vitry in this way (Wathey, 1998). It must now be asked whether such separate survival is sufficiently strong evidence for the attribution of other motet texts preserved in this way, since the same group also includes some motets ascribed to him on independent grounds (notably Flos/Celsa but also the still questionable Quid scire/Dantur); some of these are mentioned in treatises. Attributions are also based on style and construction as well as on links between pieces (see especially Leech-Wilkinson, Kügle, Coplestone-Crow).


[Margaret Bent and Andrew Wathey. "Vitry, Philippe de." Grove Music Online. Oxford Music Online (http://www.oxfordmusiconline.com/subscriber/article/grove/music/29535). 27 Mar. 2012.]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on March 27, 2012, 04:22:34 AM
I don't have access to the Grove. Good to see the academics are hard at work!  :)

I am myself frustrated by the relative paucity of Ars Nova works in the catalogue, even including, as I do, the Ars Subtilior among them. Vitry, Machaut, Landini, Ciconia and Anonymous -- that's it! for substantial recorded oeuvres at least.  :-\ Then you've reached Binchois and Dufay and the music has a different character altogether.

If you've discovered more 14c beauties than I have, do tell!

Edited to add: I failed to mention the marvellous Solage. But what does his stuff amount to, half a disc? Alas!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Leon on March 27, 2012, 09:57:54 AM
Quote from: chasmaniac on March 27, 2012, 04:22:34 AM
I don't have access to the Grove. Good to see the academics are hard at work!  :)

I am myself frustrated by the relative paucity of Ars Nova works in the catalogue, even including, as I do, the Ars Subtilior among them. Vitry, Machaut, Landini, Ciconia and Anonymous -- that's it! for substantial recorded oeuvres at least.  :-\ Then you've reached Binchois and Dufay and the music has a different character altogether.

If you've discovered more 14c beauties than I have, do tell!

Edited to add: I failed to mention the marvellous Solage. But what does his stuff amount to, half a disc? Alas!

Jacopo da Bologna: Italian Madrigals of the 14th Century

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51b3rD-m4EL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

Monch von Salzburg

[asin]B000001MOK[/asin]

There is a workable list of composers from the 14th century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Medieval_composers) (and earlier) at Wikipedia.  In many cases some of their work can be found on Amazon, either on a disc devoted to them on among a compilation of 14th C. music.

:)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on March 28, 2012, 06:18:34 AM
I've ordered up 4 deletes from BRO. Ring any bells?

Ars Nova: Il Trecento, Ensemble Real, Arion 68462
Bestiarium: Animals and Nature in Medieval Music, La Reverdie, Cantus 9601
Vous ou la mort: Canciones flamencas de amor cortés en el siglo XV, Concerto Palatino, Cantus 9607
Medée Fu: Música francesa e italiana de finales del siglo XIV, Ensemble Tritonus XIV, Verso 2005
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on March 29, 2012, 04:45:40 AM
I dilettosi fiori: 14th Century Music for Clavisimbalum and Flutes, Corina Marti

[asin]B006T6HHZU[/asin]

One doesn't hear a clavisimbalum every day, by gum. 'Tis gossamer, gossamer, I tells ya! The notes form a fine essay, by the way. Can't find a review, so here's a blurb:

QuoteLate fourteenth-century instrumental music that forms the core of the present release comes from the two most important surviving sources of this repertoire: the London and the Faenza codices. While the performance medium repeatedly employed in recordings of both monophonic and polyphonic instrumental music of the Late Middle Ages has been a band of various instruments, the present recital demonstrates, that all it takes to bring this exquisite music back to life is a single, persuasive performer. Corina Marti sets out "in search of the delightful flowers" (Jacopo da Bologna) hidden in those two distinct universes of Late Medieval music, the monophonic and the polyphonic. In this, her solo debut, she achieves a remarkable variety by juxtaposing the sound of recorders (including the double recorder so frequently seen in the fourteenth-century Italian iconography) and of a clavisimbalum – a reconstruction of the earliest form of a harpsichord.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on March 29, 2012, 07:49:15 AM
Quote from: Que on March 28, 2012, 10:45:56 PM
[asin]B00795C6CO[/asin]

A whole list of delectable goodies, but this one jumps out! :) Since the discovery of this important Striggio mass, only one other recording has been issued, and that was not quite what I was looking for: (very) large forces and in British choral style. I was waiting for a more appropriate approach and Niquet might be the ticket. Please keep me posted on that one. :)

Q

Not sure about it.  I was going to say it makes the music sound like Gabrieli a generation too early, but then I realized I was thinking mostly of the Benevoli pieces, which date well after Gabrieli, not to mention Striggio.

There is one singer per part, but many of the vocal lines are doubled by instruments, so it's not pure a cappella.  Since Striggio himself is documented to have used instruments at least some of the time in performing the mass,  it's not unHIP.   But Tallis Scholars style performance it isn't. 

I do suggest getting it--the non Striggio pieces are at least as interesting and well performed, and presumably not well represented by recordings.  They include  Orazio Benevoli (Laetatus sum, Miserere, Magnificat) and mass propers by Francesco Corteccia; the recording is sequenced to represent a Mass of St. John the Baptist as sung in the Duomo of Florence during Striggio's lifetime (Corteccia was then the music master of the cathedral),  but with the Benevoli motets anachronistically included.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 29, 2012, 10:35:49 PM
Very helpful insights about that new recording - thanks, Jeffrey! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: bumtz on April 06, 2012, 12:22:34 AM
Just got this one yesterday, and listened to it three times in a row. Ferrara Ensemble is excellent as always.

[asin]B00354XVLI[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Leon on April 06, 2012, 04:44:27 AM
Quote from: chasmaniac on March 29, 2012, 04:45:40 AM
I dilettosi fiori: 14th Century Music for Clavisimbalum and Flutes, Corina Marti

[asin]B006T6HHZU[/asin]

One doesn't hear a clavisimbalum every day, by gum. 'Tis gossamer, gossamer, I tells ya! The notes form a fine essay, by the way. Can't find a review, so here's a blurb:

I found this disc on Spotify and am listening to it now.  Very nice; reminds me of a cimbalum.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on April 06, 2012, 05:44:02 AM
Quote from: bumtz on April 06, 2012, 12:22:34 AM
Just got this one yesterday, and listened to it three times in a row. Ferrara Ensemble is excellent as always.

[asin]B00354XVLI[/asin]

I'll have to spin this. Haven't heard it in a while.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on April 09, 2012, 05:13:30 PM
Well, after all the positive reviews here and a $25 gift card from my sister, I grabbed this still in the shrink wrap for 10 bones:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BXoO3q4vL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: KeithW on April 09, 2012, 05:30:46 PM
Quote from: Bogey on April 09, 2012, 05:13:30 PM
Well, after all the positive reviews here and a $25 gift card from my sister, I grabbed this still in the shrink wrap for 10 bones:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BXoO3q4vL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Well done!  I paid more than that, but still thought I got a bargain given the quality.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on April 09, 2012, 05:49:01 PM
Quote from: KeithW on April 09, 2012, 05:30:46 PM
Well done!  I paid more than that, but still thought I got a bargain given the quality.

It is quickly becoming a standard here. :D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Stevens Senior on April 11, 2012, 07:42:02 PM
(http://s.dsimg.com/image/R-1450443-1220652733.jpeg)

[asin]B0002XNM96[/asin]
[asin]B000H0MNK8[/asin]

Mine.  Mine Mine.  Mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine!

I have to point out, however, that the first one's available at Presto (where I got it), for a little more than half the amazon seller's price.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on May 06, 2012, 01:17:16 AM
A quick note on this disc for those amongst us that are interested in late Renaissance keyboard music:

[asin]B0014C5YFY[/asin]

As you can tell from the Vermeer on the cover and the name of the owner of the virginal book performed here, the music on this disc is from the Netherlands.

How does Dutch Renaissance keyboard music sound like? Well, it's stylistically closest to the English tradition, but with influences from France and Italy. This is not highbrow music from the period, but a very cute disc indeed. Performed are adaptations of psalm settings, dances and songs. They are interspersed by flute music by Jacob van Eyk, performed by Patrick Denecker. Not an indispensable disc per se, but with unusual repertoire, beautifully performed. As said: a cute disc for those into this kind of stuff! :)

Also note the use of a type of a typically Flemish double virginal (this might be of interest to Dave (Sonic)!) called "mother and child" (moeder en kind) - a smaller, higher tuned, virginal is inside the "mother" virginal and can be played separately. See also the explanation by Johan van Veen in the review quoted below. Unfortunately of this particular instrument, a copy after Ruckers, I couldn't find a suitable picture. But here is a very similar looking one: (the "child" is placed left inside the "mother")

(http://www.hubharp.com/images/FIweb300/VirgMus275web.jpg)

Johan van Veen tells you everything else you need to know about this recording:
It is a well-known collection of pieces for many keyboard players, the so-called Susanne van Soldt-manuscript, or - as it is called here - Virginal Book. The latter name reflects what Guy Penson thinks this music was intended for, the virginals. That isn't a matter of bold speculation: the manuscript reflects the music practice in the Netherlands, and the virginals were arguably the most widespread keyboard instrument among the upper class in the Low Countries. Antwerp was a centre of keyboard building, and a famous builder like Ruckers built many virginals, some of which have been preserved.

The question musicologists have tried to answer is who this Susanne van Soldt might have been. One of them is Alan Curtis, who edited the modern edition of this manuscript, published in 1961. It seems almost certain that Susanne van Soldt was the daughter of a wealthy Protestant merchant from Antwerp, who fled to London after the siege of the city by the Spanish in 1585. The archives of the Dutch Reformed Church in London record a baptism of a Susanne, daughter of Hans van Soldt, on 20 May 1586. As Susanne put her name and the year 1599 on the fly leaf of the manuscript, one may conclude that it contained material for her keyboard lessons, which would fit with her age of 13.

The manuscript contains pieces which were very popular in the Low Countries. Most of them are dances and songs, the kind of pieces frequently published by printers in Paris and Antwerp. Some are based on French, others on Italian models. They contain moderate ornamentation, also a argument for the assumption this was material for educational purposes. In addition some slightly ornamented harmonisations of Psalm settings are in the manuscript. The melodies are from the Genevan Psalter, used by the French Huguenots and the Calvinists in the Netherlands. This is additional evidence that Susanne van Soldt belonged to a Protestant family.

Guy Penson uses two different kind of virginals, both copied after historical originals by Jef Van Boven in Ekeren. The first is a typical Ruckers instrument, called a mother and child virginal. "The name 'mother and child'coms from a peculiarity in the instrument's construction: insid the instrument is another smaller virginal that can be removed, like a baby leaving its mother's womb. This smaller virginal sounds an octave higher and can be played separately as well as being coupled to the main keyboard. After having removed the jack rail from the main instrument, the smaller instrument is placed on top of the larger; thanks to a clever mechanism, the jacks of the larger instrument also push those of the smaller instrument and the two arrays of strings thus play simultaneously" (Jérôme Lejeune in the booklet). The other instrument is a 'normal' instrument, also modelled after an original Ruckers instrument; it is what was called a muselaer in the Low Countries.

Pieces from this collection are regularly performed and recorded, but this is the first recording of the complete manuscript. This was a splendid idea as it not only gives a very good impression of music life in the Low Countries around 1600, but also contains very good and enoyable music. Guy Penson has ordered the pieces in such a way that there is a large amount of variety in form and character between the pieces. He also has ordered them in groups, which are played almost without interruption. This ensures this is more than a sequence of very short pieces - most last less than 2 minutes. In addition Patrick Denecker plays some pieces by Jacob van Eyck, th famous Dutch recorder player of the 17th century. He is historically quite a bit later than the time this manuscript was compiled, but stylistically he is pretty close to what this collection contains. Denecker also joins Guy Penson in some pieces from the Susanne van Soldt-manuscript, and Penson on his turn joins Denecker in one of Van Eyck's pieces.

This is a very interesting and musically enthralling recording. Many of the melodies will be familiar to people who regularly listen to 'early music'. Both artists give splendid performances, lively, imaginative and with rhythmic flexibility. The instruments have been excellently recorded and the booklet gives all the information one needs. In short, an exemplary production.

Johan van Veen (© 2009)


Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on May 06, 2012, 11:35:06 AM
Quote from: Bogey on April 09, 2012, 05:13:30 PM
Well, after all the positive reviews here and a $25 gift card from my sister, I grabbed this still in the shrink wrap for 10 bones:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BXoO3q4vL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Welcome to the club, Bill.  This set has been in my collection for close to 2 years ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on May 10, 2012, 09:45:48 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61oodvg0aJL.jpg)

Quote from: The new erato on May 09, 2012, 11:17:07 PM
I do seriously wonder if not Lassus Pentitential Psalms is the greatest late renaissance music ever written.

I'm just getting into it, but it's absolutely gorgeous! :) Lassus is IMO definitely one of the big ones in Early music.

I'm very happy with this recording - the combination Lassus & Herreweghe has worked for me splendedly so far! Do you have the same? :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on May 11, 2012, 12:08:33 AM
Quote from: Que on May 10, 2012, 09:45:48 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61oodvg0aJL.jpg)

I'm just getting into it, but it's absolutely gorgeous! :) Lassus is IMO definitely one of the big ones in Early music.

I'm very happy with this recording - the combination Lassus & Herreweghe has worked for me splendedly so far! Do you have the same? :)

Q
Yes I do and I agree. I also have the Hyperion set (not as good). But I do absolutely love the old Bruno Turner/Pro Cantione Antiqua recordings of some of these psalms on Archiv, even though they are not as technically accomplished as modern ensembles they have an almost frightening intensity. I feel as if those guys really were repenting.

Compared to the breadth of his catalogue and his reputation, Lassus is probably the most seriously underrecorded composer of all.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on May 11, 2012, 11:51:30 PM
Quote from: The new erato on May 11, 2012, 12:08:33 AM
Yes I do and I agree.

Next on my list will be this Lassus recording by Herreweghe, which is fortunately still available: :) :)

[asin]B001BLP64C[/asin]

Judging from this review from Allmusic, it's must be worthwhile! :)
As Orlande Lassus' production in the motet genre is of such enormity, the numerous published collections that appeared before his sons pulled them all apart to construct the Magnum Opus Musicum of 1604 are extremely useful in grasping their chronology and the context in which Lassus himself may have considered these things. Lassus' established valedictory work is the seven-voice madrigal collection Lagrime di San Pietro, which appeared one year after he died in 1594. However, in 1594 itself he also published in Graz a six-voice collection entitled Cantiones sacrae that is more or less in the same vein as the Lagrime -- mournful, masterful, and as summary for what was for Lassus a long and productive career. The Lagrime have been recorded entirely a number of times, even once by the expert group featured here, Collegium Vocale Ghent led by Philippe Herreweghe. However, the Cantiones sacrae doesn't seem to have been recorded by anyone before, not even part of it, though that is not 100% surprising as so much of Lassus' work remains untouched by recording artists. Therefore, Herreweghe has the scoop; however, it is not just of an interesting sidelight to the repertoire that only needed attention and might have well been forgotten without his advocacy. Cantiones sacrae is a major work, featuring Lassus at his best and in his most fully developed motet idiom. The singing, too, is flexible and fluid, superbly balanced and resolutely in tune; a key ingredient for success here, as the morphology of Lassus' vocal textures can be so rapid and disorienting, keeping the pitch centered can be a major job in itself. There are many highlights; a marvelous descending passage in Qui timet Deum; a dense web of polyphony spreading out from a single pitch as in Deficiat in dolore vita mea; a rolling, free-wheeling sense of imitation in Quam bonus Israel Deus. For those in tune with Renaissance polyphony, Philippe Herreweghe and Collegium Vocale's Cantiones sacrae is going to be essential listening and should not be missed, and one would think this little-known work's propinquity to Lagrime di San Pietro -- the last, great blast of Renaissance vocal music -- would be enough of a motivator in itself to bring out the tribe Uncle Dave Lewis (Allmusic)

Another work by Lassus that intrigues me, is the motet collection Prophetiae Sibyllarum (http://www.answers.com/topic/prophetiae-sibyllarum-chromatico-more-singulari-confectae-motet-collection-for-4-voices). Could anyone comment on the available options? :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51aSHuKGTML.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-eug6RcKL.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5184GX2JXFL.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41jYVN3HVpL.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41bu3Iq0edL.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kiECqhk8L.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on May 12, 2012, 02:40:47 AM
Prophetiae Sibyllarum: I have the Cantus Colln. It is very precise and quick (I'm given to understand), and the recording relatively dry. Other folks seem to find them cold, but I think this a typically fine effort from a wonderful group.The music itself is quite notey, more thrilling than atmospheric. Good stuff.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on May 12, 2012, 03:31:56 AM
Quote from: chasmaniac on May 12, 2012, 02:40:47 AM
Prophetiae Sibyllarum: I have the Cantus Colln. It is very precise and quick (I'm given to understand), and the recording relatively dry. Other folks seem to find them cold, but I think this a typically fine effort from a wonderful group.The music itself is quite notey, more thrilling than atmospheric. Good stuff.

Instinctively I also eyed the Cantus Cölln recording. Then I read on Amzon that Bruno Giordano, whose opinion I value, changed his allegiances from that recording to the newer one by the ensemble Daedalus under Roberto Festa (Alpha). So I'm seriously considering that one - the fact that the Cantus Cölln is OOP also weighs in to it. :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on May 12, 2012, 03:40:44 AM
Quote from: Que on May 12, 2012, 03:31:56 AM
Instinctively I also eyed the Cantus Cölln recording. Then I read on Amzon that Bruno Giordano, whose opinion I value, changed his allegiances from that recording to the newer one by the ensemble Daedalus under Roberto Festa (Alpha). So I'm seriously considering that one - the fact that the Cantus Cölln is OOP also weighs in to it. :)

Q

It is included in the super bargain box - someting to consider.

[asin]B0054MEISO[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on May 12, 2012, 03:58:41 AM
Quote from: chasmaniac on May 12, 2012, 03:40:44 AM
It is included in the super bargain box - someting to consider.

[asin]B0054MEISO[/asin]
Good thing I didn't order it then, as I have this box, and didn't know. Strange how Lassus isn't mentioned on the front, despite having a complete disc to himself!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on May 12, 2012, 04:08:03 AM
Quote from: chasmaniac on May 12, 2012, 03:40:44 AM
It is included in the super bargain box - someting to consider.

Absolutely, thanks! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on May 12, 2012, 04:27:06 AM
Quote from: Que on May 12, 2012, 04:08:03 AM
Absolutely, thanks! :)
Q

Quote from: The new erato on May 12, 2012, 03:58:41 AM
Good thing I didn't order it then, as I have this box, and didn't know. Strange how Lassus isn't mentioned on the front, despite having a complete disc to himself!

Happy to be of service!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on May 12, 2012, 04:29:29 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/91yBfk6Cq8L.jpg)

Brand new from Hilliards, Gesualdo 5th book of Madrigals. I managed to get my grubby paws on few tracks from that and thought why not put up not-so-blind comparison for the hordes of madrigal lovers of this forum (all three of you). So here are the same two madrigals (in flac) by Hilliards, La Venexiana and Concerto Italiano. Feel free to share your thoughts with the rest of us, or not.

Gioite voi col canto
The Hilliard Ensemble (http://www.mediafire.com/?fbvvtchui4et03s)
La Venexiana (http://www.mediafire.com/?jb8ap5uhfyhyn7b)
Concerto Italiano (http://www.mediafire.com/?ipge18ltn3iw8yr)

S'io non miro non moro
The Hilliard Ensemble (http://www.mediafire.com/?4qb888fcjpq88g7)
La Venexiana (http://www.mediafire.com/?o38pra3hjrx4wrt)
Concerto Italiano (http://www.mediafire.com/?mlh428yycp87ija)

Enjoy.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on May 12, 2012, 04:56:41 AM
Over in the Haus, Gurn has asked after custom sets that people have devised for themselves. Here's perhaps my all-time favourite, of late medieval material.

1. Salve flos Tusce gentis
(Guillaume Dufay, Ensemble Musica Nova)
2. Inclita stella maris
(Guillaume Dufay, Ensemble Musica Nova)
3. Quel fronte signorille in paradiso
(Guillaume Dufay, Gothic Voices)
4. Le ray au soleyl
(Johannes Ciconia, Ensemble P.A.N.)
5. Se congié prens
(Josquin Desprez, Ensemble Gilles Binchois)
6. Cueurs desolez
(Josquin Desprez, Ensemble Gilles Binchois)
7. Tres morillas m'enamoran en Jaén
(anonymous, Ensemble Accentus)
8. Ther is no rose of swych virtu
(anonymous, Gothic Voices)
9. Gloria
(Pycard, Gothic Voices)
10. The Agincourt Carol
(anonymous, Gothic Voices)
11. Dame, a vous sans retollir
(Guillaume de Machaut, Ensemble P.A.N.)
12. Nove cantum melodie
(Gilles Binchois, The Binchois Consort)
13. De Fortune me doi plaindre
(Guillaume de Machaut, Ensemble Musica Nova)
14. Son cuer men vois
(Guillaume de Machaut, Ensemble Musica Nova)
15. Helas! je voy mon cuer
(Solage, Gothic Voices)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on May 12, 2012, 04:59:00 AM
How I would love to get references to what albums these tracks were originally on!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on May 12, 2012, 05:03:24 AM
Quote from: The new erato on May 12, 2012, 04:59:00 AM
How I would love to get references to what albums these tracks were originally on!

I'll get back to you on that. No time just now.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on May 12, 2012, 05:15:19 AM
Quote from: chasmaniac on May 12, 2012, 05:03:24 AM
I'll get back to you on that. No time just now.
Nice and helpful if you could do it, but don't feel obliged!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on May 12, 2012, 07:04:03 AM
Quote from: Que on May 10, 2012, 09:45:48 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61oodvg0aJL.jpg)

I'm just getting into it, but it's absolutely gorgeous! :) Lassus is IMO definitely one of the big ones in Early music.

I'm very happy with this recording - the combination Lassus & Herreweghe has worked for me splendedly so far! Do you have the same? :)

Q

I only have 6 individual recordings dedicated entirely to his works and expect to add a few new titles to my collection this year.  He is just one of the many early music composers in my ever growing early music collection ... 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on May 12, 2012, 10:04:32 AM
Quote from: The new erato on May 12, 2012, 04:59:00 AM
How I would love to get references to what albums these tracks were originally on!

1-2. Flos Florum: Motets, Hymnes, Antiennes, Ensemble Musica Nova, Zig Zag 50301
3. A Song for Francesca: Music in Italy, 1330-1430, Gothic Voices, Hyperion 21286
4. Homage to Johannes Ciconia, Ensemble P.A.N., New Albion 48
5-6. Chansons de la Renaissance (2), Ensemble Gilles Binchois, Virgin Veritas 07623
7. Cancionero Musical de Palacio: Music at the Spanish Court, 1505-1520, Ensemble Accentus, Naxos 8553536
8-10. The Service of Venus and Mars: Music for the Knights of the Garter, Gothic Voices, Hyperion 21238
11. Remède de Fortune, Ensemble P.A.N., New Albion 068
12. Mass for St. Anthony Abbot et al., The Binchois Consort, Helios 67474
13-14. Ballades, Ensemble Musica Nova, Aeon 0982
15. The Unknown Lover: Songs by Solage and Machaut, Gothic Voices, Avie 2089
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on May 12, 2012, 11:28:46 AM
Bravo! :) And thanks. 8)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: jlaurson on May 22, 2012, 02:07:27 PM
Finally got to tell Paul McNulty in person, how much I adore his instruments.
K.Bezuidenhout then proceeded to play the heck out of one of them.



Notes from the 2012 Dresden Music Festival ( 1 )
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-G3kIvbiVq_E/T7wIRK9Cu0I/AAAAAAAACAU/GdkIKqbRONE/s1600/notes-from-the-dresden-music_festival.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qLKjHZOHkWw/T7vMWDQDFOI/AAAAAAAACAE/w-XobW9Jqrg/s1600/Palais_im_Garten2.jpg)
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/05/notes-from-2012-dresden-music-festival.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/05/notes-from-2012-dresden-music-festival.html)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on May 22, 2012, 09:47:03 PM
Quote from: chasmaniac on May 12, 2012, 10:04:32 AM
1-2. Flos Florum: Motets, Hymnes, Antiennes, Ensemble Musica Nova, Zig Zag 50301
3. A Song for Francesca: Music in Italy, 1330-1430, Gothic Voices, Hyperion 21286
4. Homage to Johannes Ciconia, Ensemble P.A.N., New Albion 48
5-6. Chansons de la Renaissance (2), Ensemble Gilles Binchois, Virgin Veritas 07623
7. Cancionero Musical de Palacio: Music at the Spanish Court, 1505-1520, Ensemble Accentus, Naxos 8553536
8-10. The Service of Venus and Mars: Music for the Knights of the Garter, Gothic Voices, Hyperion 21238
11. Remède de Fortune, Ensemble P.A.N., New Albion 068
12. Mass for St. Anthony Abbot et al., The Binchois Consort, Helios 67474
13-14. Ballades, Ensemble Musica Nova, Aeon 0982
15. The Unknown Lover: Songs by Solage and Machaut, Gothic Voices, Avie 2089
Yes great; Thank you!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on May 25, 2012, 04:09:01 PM
US release date May 29
(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/non-muze/full/733487.jpg)
19 CDs--in essence, it's the complete (I think) box of the Capella Augustana recordings

ATM, Arkivmusic is offering a somewhat lower price than Amazon.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on July 09, 2012, 09:56:16 AM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on May 25, 2012, 04:09:01 PM
US release date May 29
(http://www.arkivmusic.com/graphics/covers/non-muze/full/733487.jpg)
19 CDs--in essence, it's the complete (I think) box of the Capella Augustana recordings

ATM, Arkivmusic is offering a somewhat lower price than Amazon.

Amazon rarely has the best price for anything unless it offers some teaser price for some new release when 9 out of 10 buyers will get an order cancellation after weeks of waiting ...    ::)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on July 15, 2012, 02:21:27 AM
Promising new release:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41HXK4ihupL.jpg)

Hyperion website offers Kyrie as free download, nice touch for sampling purposes.
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA67959&vw=dc


Also, few The Clerk's Group Ockeghem disc are coming back in print. Any opinions on these?

(http://i.prs.to/t_200/gaudeamuscdgau186.jpg)(http://i.prs.to/t_200/gaudeamuscdgau189.jpg)
Missa Caput et al                         Missa Cuiusvis Toni, Missa Quinti Toni, Celeste Beneficium
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: DaveF on July 18, 2012, 01:23:52 PM
Quote from: Drasko on July 15, 2012, 02:21:27 AM

Also, few The Clerk's Group Ockeghem disc are coming back in print. Any opinions on these?

(http://i.prs.to/t_200/gaudeamuscdgau186.jpg)(http://i.prs.to/t_200/gaudeamuscdgau189.jpg)
Missa Caput et al                         Missa Cuiusvis Toni, Missa Quinti Toni, Celeste Beneficium

That's good news - thanks for the alert.  And at mid-price, too.  The three I have (the three currently still in the catalogue) are wonderful, especially the Requiem and Missa Au travail suis.  I hope this means that the other missing ones are also scheduled for re-release.

DF
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on July 22, 2012, 01:57:58 PM
Quote from: Drasko on July 15, 2012, 02:21:27 AM
Promising new release:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41HXK4ihupL.jpg)

Hyperion website offers Kyrie as free download, nice touch for sampling purposes.
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA67959&vw=dc


Also, few The Clerk's Group Ockeghem disc are coming back in print. Any opinions on these?

(http://i.prs.to/t_200/gaudeamuscdgau186.jpg)(http://i.prs.to/t_200/gaudeamuscdgau189.jpg)
Missa Caput et al                         Missa Cuiusvis Toni, Missa Quinti Toni, Celeste Beneficium

They are all excellent.  IIRC, I only have one "volume" I do not have ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on July 22, 2012, 01:59:21 PM
BTW, did the label Gaudeamus go out of business?  It and Gimell are the top labels in early music ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on August 26, 2012, 10:35:53 AM
Looking forward to the following CD, just ordered yesterday.  This will be my second CD on works by Weelkes ...


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61zkNfbiz3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: petrarch on August 27, 2012, 02:19:19 PM
On the topic of Ockeghem, there is also this coming soon, from the great Diabolus in Musica/Antoine Guerber, on occasion of their 20-year celebration. I have all of their releases from 2002 onwards, and each one of them is special; can't wait to get this one.

[asin]B0086WQO9A[/asin]

Here's a 7-min video about the occasion:

http://vimeo.com/38214031 (http://vimeo.com/38214031)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on August 28, 2012, 02:53:34 PM
Quote from: petrarch on August 27, 2012, 02:19:19 PM
On the topic of Ockeghem, there is also this coming soon, from the great Diabolus in Musica/Antoine Guerber, on occasion of their 20-year celebration. I have all of their releases from 2002 onwards, and each one of them is special; can't wait to get this one.

[asin]B0086WQO9A[/asin]

Here's a 7-min video about the occasion:

http://vimeo.com/38214031 (http://vimeo.com/38214031)

Have to check this one out ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: petrarch on October 01, 2012, 01:54:43 PM
Just got half a dozen CDs on Arcana by La Reverdie (http://www.lareverdie.com/eng/index.php). Enjoying every single one of them thoroughly!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on October 09, 2012, 09:36:06 AM
Quote from: petrarch on October 01, 2012, 01:54:43 PM
Just got half a dozen CDs on Arcana by La Reverdie (http://www.lareverdie.com/eng/index.php). Enjoying every single one of them thoroughly!

Just get the rest of their recordings, outstanding stuff.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: StLukesguildOhio on November 22, 2012, 07:41:47 AM
I fleshed out my Heinrich Schütz collection recently:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51hZA6I%2BhGL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on December 30, 2012, 11:57:12 PM
Started the day with:

[asin]B0037SQ2LI[/asin]

Quote from: Octave on December 30, 2012, 01:11:47 AM
I am interested in that Vaet series, Que.  My only points of reference for him are a couple recordings by Cinquencento, on Hyperion:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WdASJqP-L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61O7deSwMkL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
only part of the first of which is Vaet's music.

I was hypnotized by MISSA EGO FLOS CAMPI in particular, but I haven't moved any further.

I think exploring Jacobus Vaet further would be very worthwhile. Found him a real find - an original style with sobriety and complex density at the same time. Despite the fact that he often used material of other composers as a base - more a sign of unselfish admiration - very much his own man. I find him more engaging than Gombert, for instance. And he has some of the sweetness of Lassus but remains closer to the roots of the Franco-Flemish School IMO.

I don't own the Cinquecento disc, but they sound upon sampling extremely accomplished, mandatory.
None of the discs by the Dufay Ensemble duplicates the Missa Ego Flos Campi, so that is fortunate. I've found their performances very satisfactory, maybe a bit less polish/brilliance than Cinquecento but nicely balanced performances of great integrity.

Anyway, I'm sure the online samples that plenty availble will tell you more than I can! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on January 04, 2013, 02:39:49 PM
How about this from Agricola?   Anyone here have it?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qByvlFINL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Not many cds that feature ONLY him, but right now I am playing this and am absolutely mesmerized:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51klE56OW9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

I also have this one from the Secret Labyrinth box set from Sony, but that is about it.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61cBkHr5U4L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on January 05, 2013, 07:29:43 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61cBkHr5U4L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Pulling this one out of the box set for a first listen.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 06, 2013, 12:03:27 AM
Quote from: Que on December 30, 2012, 11:57:12 PM


[asin]B0037SQ2L8[/asin][asin]B0037SQ2LI[/asin][asin]B003P6H338[/asin]

I think exploring Jacobus Vaet further would be very worthwhile. Found him a real find - an original style with sobriety and complex density at the same time. Despite the fact that he often used material of other composers as a base - more a sign of unselfish admiration - very much his own man. I find him more engaging than Gombert, for instance. And he has some of the sweetness of Lassus but remains closer to the roots of the Franco-Flemish School IMO.

I don't own the Cinquecento disc, but they sound upon sampling extremely accomplished, mandatory.
None of the discs by the Dufay Ensemble duplicates the Missa Ego Flos Campi, so that is fortunate. I've found their performances very satisfactory, maybe a bit less polish/brilliance than Cinquecento but nicely balanced performances of great integrity.

Anyway, I'm sure the online samples that plenty availble will tell you more than I can! :)

Q

I found some on line review of these Vaet discs at Classicalnet: Volume 1 (http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/a/arm32403a.php)    Volume 2 (http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/a/arm32392a.php)    Volume 3 (http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/a/arm32403a.php)

Some excerpts:

QuoteThe singing is of very high quality: unassuming, gentle, fluid and circumspect, without being either cautious or introspective as such. It's a style of singing that breathes respect and admiration for the gentle and delicate lines of melody which Vaet spins.

On the other hand, this is not whispered or in any way "under-performed" music. The Ensemble's articulation is clear and expressive. Each syllable is audible and comprehensible, wherever the polyphonic line so intends.

In the Dufay Ensemble's conception this emphasis on sonic impact is not a priority. Rather, the delicacy and pointedness of the texts. Every word is clear in the half dozen pieces which they perform here – even though the Te Deum and Magnificat are typically large scale, demonstrative, works. As you finish listening to this CD with its resonant acoustic, you will be left with a great sense of satisfaction. The Dufay Ensemble has emphasized expressivity and resolution over effect; and done Vaet a great service as a result.

[...] it's harder than ever to understand why Vaet should have been eclipsed when Lassus and Palestrina shone.

There's no comparable selection available. If there were, it would be hard to imagine its making the simple yet memorable impact that does the justifiably acclaimed Dufay Ensemble.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 06, 2013, 12:07:43 AM
Quote from: Bogey on January 05, 2013, 07:29:43 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61cBkHr5U4L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Pulling this one out of the box set for a first listen.

Bill, that is one of the best disc in the set - your admiration for Agricola is entirely justified! :) I was very impressed (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg525990.html#msg525990) myself.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: KeithW on January 06, 2013, 11:03:22 AM
Quote from: Bogey on January 04, 2013, 02:39:49 PM

Not many cds that feature ONLY him, but right now I am playing this and am absolutely mesmerized:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51klE56OW9L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)



That is a fantastic disc - one of my best buys last year.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on January 06, 2013, 11:15:28 AM
Quote from: Que on December 30, 2012, 11:57:12 PM
Started the day with:

[asin]B0037SQ2LI[/asin]

I think exploring Jacobus Vaet further would be very worthwhile. Found him a real find - an original style with sobriety and complex density at the same time. Despite the fact that he often used material of other composers as a base - more a sign of unselfish admiration - very much his own man. I find him more engaging than Gombert, for instance. And he has some of the sweetness of Lassus but remains closer to the roots of the Franco-Flemish School IMO.

I don't own the Cinquecento disc, but they sound upon sampling extremely accomplished, mandatory.
None of the discs by the Dufay Ensemble duplicates the Missa Ego Flos Campi, so that is fortunate. I've found their performances very satisfactory, maybe a bit less polish/brilliance than Cinquecento but nicely balanced performances of great integrity.

Anyway, I'm sure the online samples that plenty availble will tell you more than I can! :)

Q

Dufay Ensemble is a new name to me ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: bumtz on January 06, 2013, 03:08:42 PM
Quote from: KeithW on January 06, 2013, 11:03:22 AM
That is a fantastic disc - one of my best buys last year.

I like the Ferrara Ensemble CD on Deutsche Grammophon even more. It should be available for small amount of € at European amazons.

[asin]B002HQWQOS[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: bumtz on February 02, 2013, 04:34:03 AM
Huelgas Ensemble recording of Richafort's Requiem reissued on Harmonia Mundi and available cheap at UK amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00A2CL6SQ/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i04   
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 02, 2013, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: bumtz on February 02, 2013, 04:34:03 AM
Huelgas Ensemble recording of Richafort's Requiem reissued on Harmonia Mundi and available cheap at UK amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00A2CL6SQ/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i04

I noticed! It now has to compete with Cinquecento's new recording:

[asin]B00A2CL6SQ[/asin][asin]B008B3P4FO[/asin]

Anyway, the music itself is selfrecommending! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Octave on February 05, 2013, 05:44:07 AM
I am interested in getting another recording of Lassus' LAGRIME DI SAN PIETRO (the only one I have is the one included in the Huelgas/Nevel SECRET LABYRINTH box, a gift that keeps giving).  Any recommendations for recordings would be appreciated, though I think I am most interested in the Herreweghe and unfortunately it seems to be OOP.  I see two HM editions, 1994 and 2001:

[asin]B00000079B[/asin]
[asin]B00005NCMK[/asin]

Was this recording also issued in some other edition that might not be showing in my searches?  I am not even sure it's the best recording to search for, but samples sounded great.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 05, 2013, 06:41:59 AM
Quote from: Octave on February 05, 2013, 05:44:07 AM
I am interested in getting another recording of Lassus' LAGRIME DI SAN PIETRO (the only one I have is the one included in the Huelgas/Nevel SECRET LABYRINTH box, a gift that keeps giving).  Any recommendations for recordings would be appreciated, though I think I am most interested in the Herreweghe and unfortunately it seems to be OOP.  I see two HM editions, 1994 and 2001:

I have the Herreweghe (as well as the Van Nevel) and it is superb! :) I'm sorry to say, considering the availability...

Anyway, that Diapason d'Or was well deserved

What might help is this other ASIN, with more affordable copies available:

[asin]B000025YT9[/asin]

Also, I noticed that HM has started a reissue of Early Music, though who knows when this recording might be up?

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Octave on February 21, 2013, 03:50:32 AM
I never thanked Que for his Lassus assistance above; cheers for that, Que!

I am interested in purchasing some stuff from the Cantus label.  Apparently they were out of production for a while but are back in business, though I have had a hard time finding a few titles at Amazon, so it might be necessary for me to buy directly from them.  If this ends up being the case, I might as well minimize my number of order with them.  Does anyone know of some essential or truly excellent Cantus titles that they highly recommended?  I am interested in the Handel DUETTI ITALIANI (La Venexiana et al) and the Machaut box set by Vellard et al (which can be had cheaper from Brilliant Classics, but apparently the Cantus package is much nicer and seems to include a ~290-page book (maybe all of this is included on the CDR of the Brilliant package anyway?).
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 24, 2013, 04:24:01 AM
Quote from: Octave on February 21, 2013, 03:50:32 AM
I never thanked Que for his Lassus assistance above; cheers for that, Que!

I am interested in purchasing some stuff from the Cantus label.  Apparently they were out of production for a while but are back in business, though I have had a hard time finding a few titles at Amazon, so it might be necessary for me to buy directly from them.  If this ends up being the case, I might as well minimize my number of order with them.  Does anyone know of some essential or truly excellent Cantus titles that they highly recommended?  I am interested in the Handel DUETTI ITALIANI (La Venexiana et al) and the Machaut box set by Vellard et al (which can be had cheaper from Brilliant Classics, but apparently the Cantus package is much nicer and seems to include a ~290-page book (maybe all of this is included on the CDR of the Brilliant package anyway?).

Don't have the Händel, but it looks enticing. Concerning the Mauchat/Velard items - I did get the Cantus box set and it is just a cardboard slipcase around all three individual issues, each with eleborate booklet. Very nice indeed and the recordings are strongly recommended. The Brilliant issue has a CDR with documentation, but that's all I know about it.

If you would decide to go down the original issues road, I would urge you not to make the same mistake as I did - well, I was half way - and consider this haul:

(http://images.ecwid.com/images/1265135/46621830.jpg) (http://www.cantus-records.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/C-9901-07_cours_back.jpg)

As you can see (click to enlarge) it contains all the three Machaut items + a 2CD with music from the Notre Dame School (Perotin et all), which I later found to be indispensable + a disc with Gregorian chants, which is not so much my thing, but I found this disc superb - if you ever get just one, this might be it + a disc with various repertoire called "Les Escoliers de Paris".

This can all be had for €40 + p&p straight from Cantus (http://www.cantus-records.com/store/?lang=en#!/~/product/category=2883694&id=14333214) which seems like very attractive price to me, considering that most is not to be found anywhere else anyway... The box with just the Machaut items is €20.

Over to you...

Happy hunting! :D

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 24, 2013, 04:56:27 AM
I wonder if anyone out there can help me. I'm listening a bit now to Machaut's Lay  de la fonteinne, but the only text I have is in 14th century french, which i can't read. Can anyone locate a text inmodern French or English for me?  My initial attempts with google have come up with nothing.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 24, 2013, 05:12:21 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 24, 2013, 04:56:27 AM
I wonder if anyone out there can help me. I'm listening a bit now to Machaut's Lay  de la fonteinne, but the only text I have is in 14th century french, which i can't read. Can anyone locate a text inmodern French or Enblish for me?  My initial attempts with google have come up with nothing.

http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA66358

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 24, 2013, 05:40:52 AM
Quote from: Que on February 24, 2013, 05:12:21 AM
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA66358

Q

Wonderful! Thanks.

I need to remember that Hyperion site -- it helped me out before with Couperin's Lecons.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Coopmv on February 24, 2013, 05:41:37 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 05, 2013, 06:57:23 AM
A Spotify member, Jesse Brinkerhof, has created a playlist of music from Medieval and Renaissance periods.  The list has nearly 9,000 tracks.  I am listening right now to:

Requiems by Lassos and Ockeghem performed by the Laudantes Consort, led by Guy Janssens, from the excellent series History of Requiem

[asin]B000OCZ7NE[/asin]

This is Vol. 1, there are four altogether.

Q,  Can you help sort things out?  Does the above CD include some excerpts from the one I have as shown below?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61R2X-e5MZL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 24, 2013, 05:45:06 AM
Quote from: Que on February 24, 2013, 05:12:21 AM
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA66358

Q

Ahhhhh . . . It's about the trinity!!! I had no idea it was religious. I thought it was entirely secular.

Now I know why you have three voices singing sometimes on my record -- the one by Studio der frühen Musik.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 02, 2013, 03:30:22 AM
Quote from: Que on February 02, 2013, 03:39:32 PM
I noticed! It now has to compete with Cinquecento's new recording:

[asin]B00A2CL6SQ[/asin][asin]B008B3P4FO[/asin]

Anyway, the music itself is selfrecommending! :)

Q

I guess when it rains, it pours!  :o

[asin]B00BEF13HY[/asin]

And this recent interesting Ockeghem recording by Musica Nova completely flew under my radar - anyone heard it yet?  :)

[asin]B0093N4DXU[/asin]

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 12, 2013, 09:30:43 AM
I have access to three recordings of Lassus's Penetential Psalms: Herreweghe, Henry's 8 and The Hillards. Of these I tend to play the Hilliards the least, really because I really love unacompanied singing.

My question is this, what are the issues, vis à vis authenticity surrounding these recordings? They all feel quite different from each other. Oh, if anyone has a strong bond or the opposite w.r.t one of them, that would be fun to hear about too.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on April 09, 2013, 07:42:34 PM
Really enjoying this (new to me) recording:

[asin]B000025ZXO[/asin]

I am now up to 10 CD's which would be considered Early Music in my collection and this one is in heavy rotation. . .

This is one of my favorite threads on GMG.  Thank you to all who have posted recommendations and thoughts here.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on April 20, 2013, 12:19:12 PM
Now listening to this very fine CD!

[asin]B002C0SM7O[/asin]

Is this group still active?  I have 3 of their discs and they are fantastic.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: petrarch on April 20, 2013, 12:49:13 PM
Quote from: HIPster on April 20, 2013, 12:19:12 PM
Is this group still active?  I have 3 of their discs and they are fantastic.

Indeed, they are generally exceedingly good.

They are still active. Can't wait to get their latest:

[asin]B00B9GZHSE[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on April 20, 2013, 01:01:52 PM
Quote from: petrarch on April 20, 2013, 12:49:13 PM
Indeed, they are generally exceedingly good.

They are still active. Can't wait to get their latest:

[asin]B00B9GZHSE[/asin]

Excellent!  Thank you, Petrarch!

Thanks are also in order to you for your mention of this group earlier in the thread. . .

I'm also interested in their Dark-Light disc and have it wishlisted on amazon.

Cheers!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: petrarch on April 20, 2013, 01:45:42 PM
Quote from: HIPster on April 20, 2013, 01:01:52 PM
I'm also interested in their Dark-Light disc and have it wishlisted on amazon.

If I had to choose 3 of their releases, that one would be on that list, along with Sponsa Regis and Historia Sancta Eadmundi.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Octave on April 20, 2013, 09:29:46 PM
Re: La Reverdie:
Quote from: petrarch on April 20, 2013, 01:45:42 PM
If I had to choose 3 of their releases, that one [NOX-LUX] would be on that list, along with Sponsa Regis and Historia Sancta Eadmundi.

Damn, it looks like I missed SPONSA REGIS.   >:(  [EDIT: ah, maybe not...]  I really dug their Dufay ITALIE disc; I can't believe I haven't checked any other items from their discography.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on June 04, 2013, 07:42:57 AM
Not much action here in the last year. Anything new in the ars nova/subtilior area? That's the sweetest spot for me.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 23, 2013, 09:08:35 AM
I has been a bit quiet here at the Early Music Club... :)

[asin]B000852G1I[/asin]

In my search for discs by Van Nevel and his Huelgas Ensemble I stumbled upon this disc by  Alfonso Ferrabosco the Elder (http://www.allmusic.com/artist/alfonso-ferrabosco-mn0001491104)(Il Padre). An Italian composer who spent most of his productive life in England. Now, there is a lot "cloak & dagger" stuff surrounding his life... 8) See the the link to Wiki.

Musically Ferrabosco was important in bringing to Britain the Italian Madrigal tradition, that was then still in its early stages with roots in the tradition that the Franco-Flemish composers brought to Italy. He seems to have been a major influence on William Byrd. What I hear is what I described: highly accomplished polyphonic music in the early Italian Madrigal tradition, similar to the music on the disc by Cipriano de Rore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cipriano_de_Rore) that I bought before, also by Van Nevel. I previously discussed that disc HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg534609.html#msg534609). If you're into that kind of repertoire, this Ferrabosco disc is heartily recommended! :)

Review at Musicweb (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Dec05/Ferrabosco_HMC901874.htm) and Review at Classicstoday (http://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-11914/)


The disc above led me to order this viol music disc from jpc:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/071/MI0001071084.jpg) (http://www.allmusic.com/album/alfonso-ferrabosco-consort-music-mw0001846196)
(Picture linked to samples, Amazon US (http://www.amazon.com/Consort-Music-A-Ferrabosco/dp/B00008WD62).

This disc contains actually music by father and son, the latter being a viol player at the English court.

Review at Musicweb (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Jan05/Ferrabosco_consort.htm)

Highly technical accomplished viol consort music that sounds very much in the English tradition, both by father and son. Tranquil and introspective in mood with lots of elaborate counterpoint, though not innovation or ground breaking likes Lawes or Jenkins. I like the performance by the Rose Consort of Viols - very idiomatic, more mellow in approach than their colleagues from Fretwork and Phantasm. A nice disc that would get a deserved place in any viol music collection IMO. :)

BTW: Jordi Savall did a disc with viol music just by Alfonso Ferrabosco The Younger.

Q

EDIT: fixed the linked to the Musicweb review of the 1st disc! :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Octave on June 23, 2013, 07:09:39 PM
Thanks very much for the Ferrabosco input, Que.  Those will be at the top of my to-buy queue.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 23, 2013, 09:55:23 PM
Quote from: Octave on June 23, 2013, 07:09:39 PM
Thanks very much for the Ferrabosco input, Que.  Those will be at the top of my to-buy queue.

Just I forget: the 1st disc by the Huelgas Ensemble would be my 1st priority, the 2nd, viol music disc, is in the "nice to have" category. :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 25, 2013, 10:53:35 PM
Anyone read this? Care to comment on how accessible it is to someone with little formal training in musical analysis?

(http://c379899.r99.cf1.rackcdn.com/9780521036085.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chasmaniac on July 03, 2013, 10:14:48 AM
It's been mentioned before, but the requiem on this disc is stunning.

[asin]B00A2CL6SQ[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on July 03, 2013, 01:26:56 PM
Quote from: chasmaniac on July 03, 2013, 10:14:48 AM
It's been mentioned before, but the requiem on this disc is stunning.

[asin]B00A2CL6SQ[/asin]
Have you heard Cinquecento's OOVP recording? I only know that one, but it is exquisite.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on August 16, 2013, 11:26:12 PM
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/036/MI0001036618.jpg)    [asin]B0063JALK6[/asin]

Back to this one more time. Though a very enjoyable disc, with perfectly deliverance of the music by Van Nevel and his ensemble, I am not immediately wowed. In the timeframe between the towering geniusses of Lassus and Schütz there seem to be more notables, such as Hans Leo Hassler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Leo_Hassler) and Michael Praetorius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Praetorius). Demantius is obviously a very able but quite conservative composer. It is all pretty low key. Perhaps there is a different side to his art an do I need to hear more? :)

Q

Gramophone review:
QuoteWell-prepared and spontaneous performances of religious music by Demantius, an original voice that is rarely heard.

Christophorus Demantius was born and died in exactly the same years as Monteverdi, but there the similarities stop. A Bohemian craftsman who spent most of his professional life in Freiberg in Saxony, he is revealed in this disc of Whitsun Vespers to be a confident individualist, combining the polyphonic fluency of the great 16th-century masters with the strong harmonic kernel derived from the clear phrasing of the early German Lied.

The Huelgas Ensemble are about as convincing advocates of this sonorous repertoire as one could imagine, supported as they are by Paul van Nevel's luminous textural palette — a palette varied by such pleasing instrumental contributions. His ear for detail and the sense of meticulous preparation is immediately noticeable, though he also lets his singers sail into the intensely worked flourishes of the hymn, Veni Creator, with radiant abandon. Previously, we see Demantius — `an inconsiderate man and a turbulent genius', as one contemporary put it — conduct an impressive journey of church modes, and their variants, in 28 different Psalm verses. It makes for a slightly exhausting voyage, despite the imaginative way the composer traverses the rigid, alternating sections with rich five- and six-part sonority in the best of German traditions.

The solo singing is altogether less memorable than the fragrant coloration (which is central to van Nevel's approach) of the integral ensemble. The vespers, which were published in Nuremberg in 1602, also contain a variable Magnificat and an all-too-short, brilliant Benedicamus Domino a 6, confirming Demantius's natural grasp of decorated homophony. This is music of great dignity and an unassailable momentum. The disc ends with two extended chorale settings from Threnodiae, an extensive litany for the dead, from 1620; a touching melodic intimacy abounds, with correspondingly sensitive instrumental additions.

One feels a bit short-changed by just 47 minutes of music, but only because the Huelgas Ensemble bring a distinctive vitality to their music-making which calls for at least an hour. Demantius was prolific enough!

-- Jonathan Freeman-Attwood, Gramophone [12/2000]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on August 18, 2013, 04:23:43 AM
Since this thread seems to bit slow these days I'll cut and paste short exchange between Mandryka and me on Antoine Busnois, from waylt.

Quote from: Drasko on August 13, 2013, 01:31:48 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61jLG0iK5pL.jpg)

Antoine Busnois - Missa L'homme arme

Probably the earliest of the masses based on eponymous chanson, and for me still the best. Superb performance as well. Some might not like the ensemble's attempt at pronouncing Latin closest possible to medieval French manner.

Quote from: Drasko on August 14, 2013, 02:43:40 AM
(http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/imgs/s300x300/4456672.jpg)

Antoine Busnois - Missa L'homme arme

Quote from: Mandryka on August 15, 2013, 01:29:32 AM
I just listened to that too. I have to say that I couldn't stop myself thinjing that this is some of the most interesting music I've ever heard. It was in the credo that I started to think that.

Quote from: Drasko on August 15, 2013, 03:44:30 AM
There is a great moment toward the end of Credo when all of a sudden everything gets very frantic. The moment where I went 'wow!' is in Gloria, that amazing upward bass surge on deprecationem nostram. It was totally the moment of ecstatic truth for me (to quote Werner Herzog). The whole piece is extraordinary, the expressiveness of it, almost flamboyance when compared to lets say Dufay, who is stylistically the closest, is what completely took me back in the beginning. I've been listening to it a lot last couple of months.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on August 18, 2013, 04:43:06 AM
Quote from: Drasko on August 13, 2013, 01:31:48 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61jLG0iK5pL.jpg)

Antoine Busnois - Missa L'homme arme

Probably the earliest of the masses based on eponymous chanson, and for me still the best. Superb performance as well. Some might not like the ensemble's attempt at pronouncing Latin closest possible to medieval French manner.

I've steered away from British ensembles to avoid a "Englis cathedral style" or bias in the choral singing, which is IMO not suited for the Franco-Flemish School, smooth and in many cases with parts of the music transposed upwards. Despite the abundance of avaible recordings. Perhaps this is not in all cases justified. How does the Binchois Consort in that respect?

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on August 18, 2013, 04:53:28 AM
Quote from: Que on August 18, 2013, 04:43:06 AM
I've steered away from British ensembles to avoid a "Englis cathedral style" or bias in the choral singing, which is IMO not suited for the Franco-Flemish School, smooth and in many cases with parts of the music transposed upwards. Despite the abundance of avaible recordings. Perhaps this is not in all cases justified. How does the Binchois Consort in that respect?

Q

Nowhere near cathedral style, it's all male, two per part ensemble. Hear for yourself, here's Gloria (passage I was referring to earlier is at 3:50-4:00)

http://www.youtube.com/v/zntX1k7bCAA 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on August 18, 2013, 06:56:05 AM
Enjoying this new purchase:
[asin]B005JA8NC8[/asin]

From amazon:

Editorial Reviews
Filia Sion is the first ECM New Series disc devoted entirely to the Estonian vocal group Vox Clamantis. From the beginning of its history, Vox Clamantis has focussed on Gregorian chant as the foundation of European music, but has also maintained strong connections to contemporary composers including Arvo Pärt, Helena Tulve and Erkki-Sven Tüür (members of the ensemble previously appeared on Tüür s Oxymoron album, singing his composition Salve Regina ). Their interpretation of medieval music is never purely historical. While always remaining true to the spirit of this repertoire, the approach to the work and the selection of pieces is contemporary, with sound and texture and the blending of voices as a focus.

As leader Jaan-Eik Tulve explains, Gregorian chant is monophonic music which remarkably emphasizes the blend of voices. Working on sound and colour of voices has been one of the constant priorities of our ensemble. This emphasis is the thread that connects its repertoire through the centuries: I started with Gregorian chant and later moved on to the contemporary music for multiple reasons: firstly, my personal interest in certain contemporary music that draws attention to the sound and is centred on the horizontal musical phrase and melody in its deeper sense. On the other hand, our ensemble has been lucky and several Estonian composers have composed pieces for us, as they have appreciated our approach to the sound, phrase and to the entire musical expression...

On the present album, drawing upon the rich tradition in music history on the theme of Filia Sion , Vox Clamantis sings medieval music from Gregorian chant to works by Perotin, Hildegard von Bingen and Petrus Wilhelmi de Grudencz. In the Old Testament, Filia Sion the Daughter of Zion refers to both the holy city of Jerusalem and the Jewish people who built the Temple on Mount Zion. In medieval Christian tradition, Holy Mary became the incarnation of the Daughter of Zion as the personification of the church.

Jaan-Eik Tulve: The repertoire for the CD emerged naturally from our concert activity. We are specially focussing on the theme of Virgin Mary, who is for me personally a very important figure, who is equally honoured in medieval music. We have had different collaborations with various musicians from a number of traditions. The last piece on the CD Ma Navu derives from a program around Jewish traditional music. Most of our arrangements are born in the rehearsals while improvising. For instance, when a couple of our singers started to explore overtone-singing, we tried to incorporate it into our repertoire and the pedal-notes in Perotin, on this recording, seemed for us an appropriate use.

From the liner notes by Klára Jirsová: The Gospels do not reveal all of Mary s feelings to us; the mystery of the Incarnation is only briefly presented. Relying on a few phrases and returning endlessly to the sacred words and setting them in different contexts, the musical tradition shows their inexhaustible richness. Medieval compositions meditate on the mystery of the Incarnation in all its aspects. They display different shades of joy: explosive, superabundant joy which wells up like a source, as well as the shimmer of peaceful, meditative wonder before the miracle never seen, the joy never known .

Filia Sion was recorded in the Dome Church of St Nicholas, Haapsalu, with Helena Tulve as recording supervisor.


Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: DaveF on August 20, 2013, 01:50:30 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 25, 2013, 10:53:35 PM
Anyone read this? Care to comment on how accessible it is to someone with little formal training in musical analysis?

(http://c379899.r99.cf1.rackcdn.com/9780521036085.jpg)

There's a fairly generous preview on Google Books.  Lots of solid historical information (and speculation) but not much musical analysis at all that I could see - and what there is seems to be related to the historical situation.

DF
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 21, 2013, 01:51:39 AM
Quote from: DaveF on August 20, 2013, 01:50:30 PM
There's a fairly generous preview on Google Books.  Lots of solid historical information (and speculation) but not much musical analysis at all that I could see - and what there is seems to be related to the historical situation.

DF

Thanks. All that stuff about mysticism looks quite interesting. I've never been to Reims.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on August 21, 2013, 03:34:37 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 21, 2013, 01:51:39 AM
Thanks. All that stuff about mysticism looks quite interesting. I've never been to Reims.
As a Champagne nut I've been there twice, but never knew Machaut worked there.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: DaveF on November 18, 2013, 05:23:36 AM
It's been a bit quiet here recently, so I thought I'd mention how much I'm enjoying

[asin]B006OZN7PK[/asin] and [asin]B009TBNWNI[/asin]

I'd seen a few so-so reviews and so hung back, but needn't have.  Belder may not be first choice for Byrd - I think Hogwood or Moroney will remain hard to beat - but it's very civilized and thoughtful playing.  For many of the other pieces he's the only option, and none of it disappoints and is often delightful.  Looking forward to more volumes.

DF
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on November 21, 2013, 08:54:19 AM
Quote from: DaveF on November 18, 2013, 05:23:36 AM
Belder may not be first choice for Byrd - I think Hogwood or Moroney will remain hard to beat

Glenn Gould did a very good job, too.

(runs away as fast as can)

Quote
- but it's very civilized and thoughtful playing.  For many of the other pieces he's the only option, and none of it disappoints and is often delightful. 

Nice.


Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on November 21, 2013, 08:58:15 AM
Quote from: Florestan on November 21, 2013, 08:54:19 AM
Glenn Gould did a very good job, too.

(runs away as fast as can)

No need to run - Gould's "Consort of Musicke" is one of my favorite keyboard albums.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on November 21, 2013, 08:59:33 AM
Quote from: Velimir on November 21, 2013, 08:58:15 AM
No need to run - Gould's "Consort of Musicke" is one of my favorite keyboard albums.

8)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 09, 2014, 01:27:31 AM
Quote from: Conor on February 08, 2014, 12:42:11 AM
I thought Id dedicate this weekend to Elizabethan music - I think this era has some really beautiful music.
Today it was some William Byrd and tomorrow maybe more or selections from the John Dowland box.
The pictures below represent just about my entire Elizabethan collection (theres not much so I will post them all:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41av%2BC2L5qL.__PJautoripBadge,BottomRight,4,-40_OU11__.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71bcZjzJQ0L._SL1200_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NhTFDTDgL._SX450__PJautoripBadge,BottomRight,4,-40_OU11__.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511HBbtORVL._SY450_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bscAwY1IL._SX450_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41GF9CNS4BL.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51M9HFdpwbL._SY450__PJautoripBadge,BottomRight,4,-40_OU11__.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51K%2BXJjv9gL._SX450_.jpg)

Im always looking for recommendations so if anyone knows a recording(s) from this era they think I might like I am all ears :)
Edit: all the stuff I posted may not be strictly Elizabethan but I hope it will give other members an idea of the type of music I mean

I'm not so well advanced into the English Renaissance music to give you an elaborate answer, but I'm sure others will! :)

The set by Davitt Moroney of the complete Byrd keyboardworks (Hyperion) seems a good addition. I also see no Thomas Tallis - though not his whole choral œuvre is essential listening, a fair portion of it is. I derived much pleasure from the set pictured (originally recorded by Signum)



[asin]B003UW6WEI[/asin][asin]B005JWXA1K[/asin]

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Wakefield on February 09, 2014, 04:37:27 PM
Quote from: Que on February 09, 2014, 01:27:31 AM
I'm not so well advanced into the English Renaissance music to give you an elaborate answer, but I'm sure others will! :)

Q

Me neither, but I'm reckless enough to do it anyway.  ;D

I have recommended these two wonderful disks several times; but, apparently, I haven't had any success:

[asin]B0000060D7[/asin]

[asin]B0000060D8[/asin]

:)




Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 23, 2014, 05:20:45 PM
Very quiet over here :)
  I just want to join this thread and say hi.  I am presently reading John Gardiner's book on Bach, and listening to lots from various early music boxes from Harmonia Mundi, Vivarte, Archiv, and Erato.  I've always liked Bach, but am presently enjoying earlier stuff much more, especially polyphonic vocal music and early small group ensemble music by people like Muffat and Biber (just to randomly select a couple of names from the last CD I listened to).  It's amazing that virtually every disc I randomly play I end up really liking, and am moved by its thoughtfulness and integrity.  Odd that when I sample more recent music my feelings are often almost diametrically opposite...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Ken B on February 23, 2014, 06:45:33 PM
Quote from: Baklavaboy on February 23, 2014, 05:20:45 PM
Very quiet over here :)
  I just want to join this thread and say hi.  I am presently reading John Gardiner's book on Bach, and listening to lots from various early music boxes from Harmonia Mundi, Vivarte, Archiv, and Erato.  I've always liked Bach, but am presently enjoying earlier stuff much more, especially polyphonic vocal music and early small group ensemble music by people like Muffat and Biber (just to randomly select a couple of names from the last CD I listened to).  It's amazing that virtually every disc I randomly play I end up really liking, and am moved by its thoughtfulness and integrity.  Odd that when I sample more recent music my feelings are often almost diametrically opposite...

We'll get you eventually Baklavaboy. Dufay and Muffat are gateway drugs, but Josquin and Schutz are pure crack.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 23, 2014, 07:10:06 PM
Quote from: Ken B on February 23, 2014, 06:45:33 PM
We'll get you eventually Baklavaboy. Dufay and Muffat are gateway drugs, but Josquin and Schutz are pure crack.
You're everywhere, Ken :)
Josquin I've played and liked, but Schutz is just a name...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on February 23, 2014, 07:25:30 PM
Quote from: Baklavaboy on February 23, 2014, 07:10:06 PM
You're everywhere, Ken :)
Josquin I've played and liked, but Schutz is just a name...
Allow me to make the formal introduction. 

Herr Schutz, may I introduce Baklavaboy?
Baklavaboy, may I introduce Herr Schutz?
[asin]B00CTBHSNU[/asin]
[asin]B007762J4K[/asin]
Mind you, at 19 CDs that Brilliant box is far from complete.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Ken B on February 23, 2014, 07:26:36 PM
Quote from: Baklavaboy on February 23, 2014, 07:10:06 PM
You're everywhere, Ken :)

I work for the NSA.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 23, 2014, 07:44:47 PM
 ;D ;D
  thank you gentlemen! My shop has a lot of those HM boxes, at very reasonable prices, but I still have about 150 discs to listen to from other recent early music boxes (including some Schutz, actually).  Somebody here at GMG forced me into a "cease and desist new purchases" pact.  The sadistic s o b....
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on February 23, 2014, 07:49:46 PM
Quote from: Baklavaboy on February 23, 2014, 07:44:47 PM
;D ;D
  thank you gentlemen! My shop has a lot of those HM boxes, at very reasonable prices, but I still have about 150 discs to listen to from other recent early music boxes (including some Schutz, actually).  Somebody here at GMG forced me into a "cease and desist new purchases" pact.  The sadistic s o b....

It's only for two weeks.   You can use the time to plan out a really really big order.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 23, 2014, 08:07:04 PM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on February 23, 2014, 07:49:46 PM
It's only for two weeks.   You can use the time to plan out a really really big order.

:laugh:

  Actually, the postman brought me the EMI Eminence and Erato boxes this morning...and Amazon UK just sent a notice that the new Colin Davis box has shipped, and last night I started burning some of the 7K discs I have on my Hard drive to CD, so I am probably OK for new purchases...except for HM early music boxes ::)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Ken B on February 24, 2014, 06:37:41 AM
Quote from: Baklavaboy on February 23, 2014, 08:07:04 PM
so I am probably OK for new purchases...except for HM early music boxes ::)

Oh but those are the best ones!

>:D >:D :laugh: :laugh: :P >:D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on February 24, 2014, 07:17:08 AM
Quote from: Baklavaboy on February 23, 2014, 07:10:06 PM
You're everywhere, Ken :)
Josquin I've played and liked, but Schutz is just a name...

This 2 CD set has been in very heavy rotation since I purchased it in late 2013:
[asin]B00067R3ZW[/asin]

There are also earlier editions available, so poke around for the best price. . .

Dig these pretty great reviews, including one by Amazon early music maven 'Giordano Bruno'~

[asin]B000004433[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 24, 2014, 04:19:43 PM
Quote from: HIPster on February 24, 2014, 07:17:08 AM
This 2 CD set has been in very heavy rotation since I purchased it in late 2013
There are also earlier editions available, so poke around for the best price. . .

Dig these pretty great reviews, including one by Amazon early music maven 'Giordano Bruno'~

  thanks for the heads up! I am on a spending freeze until the middle of next month, but will have an eye out for these.  I might poke around on the net and see if I can have a digital copy delivered to my door ;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Ken B on February 24, 2014, 06:49:58 PM
Quote from: HIPster on February 24, 2014, 07:17:08 AM
This 2 CD set has been in very heavy rotation since I purchased it in late 2013:
[asin]B00067R3ZW[/asin]

There are also earlier editions available, so poke around for the best price. . .

Dig these pretty great reviews, including one by Amazon early music maven 'Giordano Bruno'~

[asin]B000004433[/asin]
I second the praise for the set.
Lots of good stuff in the boxes too. The brilliant box is a little uneven, but it's bigger!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 24, 2014, 07:06:30 PM
Quote from: Ken B on February 24, 2014, 06:49:58 PM
I second the praise for the set.
Lots of good stuff in the boxes too. The brilliant box is a little uneven, but it's bigger!

  Some guy over at Amazon named Ken Braithwaite only gave the Brilliant 3 stars, but gave the HM 5.  Something about the guys name makes me suspect he might be a little shady >:D, so not sure whether to believe him or not.
   I knew I had some Schutze somewhere and finally found I have two discs of the Psalms in the Vivarte box.  So far I have been crazy about everything I've played from that box, so have high hopes.  Playing Charpentier right now...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Ken B on February 24, 2014, 07:23:24 PM
Quote from: Baklavaboy on February 24, 2014, 07:06:30 PM
  Some guy over at Amazon named Ken Braithwaite only gave the Brilliant 3 stars, but gave the HM 5.  Something about the guys name makes me suspect he might be a little shady >:D, so not sure whether to believe him or not.
   I knew I had some Schutze somewhere and finally found I have two discs of the Psalms in the Vivarte box.  So far I have been crazy about everything I've played from that box, so have high hopes.  Playing Charpentier right now...
I don't know, I find his reviews pretty good. But he always reviews stuff I already have.

:-\
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 24, 2014, 10:11:24 PM
Quote from: Ken B on February 24, 2014, 07:23:24 PM
I don't know, I find his reviews pretty good. But he always reviews stuff I already have.

:-\
:laugh: :laugh:

  I've heard a lot of enthusiasm directed towards Herreweghe.  Is he pretty well thought of over here?
  I actually have a fair amount of older stuff from Deller.  What I've heard sounds good to me, but I have no real standard of reference.  Is he generally considered solid, or dated?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Ken B on February 25, 2014, 07:46:36 AM
Quote from: Baklavaboy on February 24, 2014, 10:11:24 PM
:laugh: :laugh:

  I've heard a lot of enthusiasm directed towards Herreweghe.  Is he pretty well thought of over here?
  I actually have a fair amount of older stuff from Deller.  What I've heard sounds good to me, but I have no real standard of reference.  Is he generally considered solid, or dated?
Herreweghe is indeed highly thought of, at least by me and that Braithwaite fellow.
(Alfred) Deller is somewhat dated, and there are now a lot of counter tenors with much better voices. But he was a superb musician, which still comes through, and a great pioneer. In the HM 50 box is a splendid King Arthur by the Deller Consort. I also love hsi folk song recording there but some will find it a tough slog.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on February 25, 2014, 01:04:15 PM
Quote from: Baklavaboy on February 24, 2014, 10:11:24 PM
I've heard a lot of enthusiasm directed towards Herreweghe.  Is he pretty well thought of over here?

Yes, he is highly regarded from my perspective.

This recording is absolutely wonderful:
[asin]B001BLP64C[/asin]

This one too:
[asin]B000025YT9[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 25, 2014, 07:37:18 PM
Thanks again for the useful comments and suggestions.  I just had a chance to hear a Herreweghe Bruckner 5th, and it really whets my appetite for his work in early music--he (and the orchestra) have a really lovely touch with great texture and detail.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Moonfish on March 01, 2014, 02:12:39 PM
Quote from: Baklavaboy on February 23, 2014, 08:07:04 PM
:laugh:

  Actually, the postman brought me the EMI Eminence and Erato boxes this morning...and Amazon UK just sent a notice that the new Colin Davis box has shipped, and last night I started burning some of the 7K discs I have on my Hard drive to CD, so I am probably OK for new purchases...except for HM early music boxes ::)

This sounds like a very familiar scenario.... Last time I went to the post office the staff members looked at me inquisitively and said "Oh, you are the one that is getting all those boxes!! Huh! Are you running a business? *sigh*" .  It made me crack up!     :laugh:
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on March 01, 2014, 04:49:46 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on March 01, 2014, 02:12:39 PM
This sounds like a very familiar scenario.... Last time I went to the post office the staff members looked at me inquisitively and said "Oh, you are the one that is getting all those boxes!! Huh! Are you running a business? *sigh*" .  It made me crack up!     :laugh:

:laugh: :laugh:
   It's a glorious time to be a classical music fan!

  BTW, I just got to this baby in my Archiv box:
[asin]B000935TV8[/asin]

   Wow. I haven't heard anything like this before.  It doesn't sound like early music or baroque, exactly.  It reminds me of Shakespeare's English, constantly fresh and surprising, but not breaking any rules because it comes before the rules have hardened into place...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Ken B on March 01, 2014, 05:30:52 PM
Quote from: Baklavaboy on March 01, 2014, 04:49:46 PM
:laugh: :laugh:
   It's a glorious time to be a classical music fan!

  BTW, I just got to this baby in my Archiv box:
[asin]B000935TV8[/asin]

   Wow. I haven't heard anything like this before.  It doesn't sound like early music or baroque, exactly.  It reminds me of Shakespeare's English, constantly fresh and surprising, but not breaking any rules because it comes before the rules have hardened into place...

Pssssst, fellow EMers, we have a live one.

I think you'll like the Lumieres box. You delve much into the DHM 50 ?
You will eventually want the Music in Versailles box ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on March 01, 2014, 05:45:16 PM
Quote from: Ken B on March 01, 2014, 05:30:52 PM
I think you'll like the Lumieres box. You delve much into the DHM 50 ?
You will eventually want the Music in Versailles box ...

  I got the Lumiere's box last week and like it a lot. Have the DHM 50, 30, Centuries, and sacred.  Working on all and sundry, but only so many hours per day.
  Never heard of the Versailles box.  Will research ASAP :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Ken B on March 01, 2014, 05:59:51 PM
Quote from: Baklavaboy on March 01, 2014, 05:45:16 PM
  I got the Lumiere's box last week and like it a lot. Have the DHM 50, 30, Centuries, and sacred.  Working on all and sundry, but only so many hours per day.
  Never heard of the Versailles box.  Will research ASAP :)

Down boy

[asin]B001HBX90O[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on March 01, 2014, 06:16:47 PM
Quote from: Ken B on March 01, 2014, 05:59:51 PM
Down boy

[asin]B001HBX90O[/asin]

No troubles. I have a Russian friend helping me acquire a loaner copy even as we speak.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on March 01, 2014, 06:50:56 PM
Quote from: Baklavaboy on March 01, 2014, 04:49:46 PM

  BTW, I just got to this baby in my Archiv box:
[asin]B000935TV8[/asin]

   Wow. I haven't heard anything like this before.  It doesn't sound like early music or baroque, exactly.  It reminds me of Shakespeare's English, constantly fresh and surprising, but not breaking any rules because it comes before the rules have hardened into place...

Nice!  I am a big fan of this one too.  8)

Many forum members seem to be fans as well (but not all ;D). . .

Thread duty:
[asin]B000001OA0[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on March 01, 2014, 07:02:27 PM
Quote from: HIPster on March 01, 2014, 06:50:56 PM
Nice!  I am a big fan of this one too.  8)

Many forum members seem to be fans as well (but not all ;D). . .

  Thanks again! I don't need a crystal ball to see that one is not going to be to everyone's liking!

   And on that note, I can share this ::)
As I type (3/2/2014) this is the number 2 viral video on Youtube. Two guys playing Cellos...
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ViralVideoChart/~3/JxOKBNR1ZMY/youtube (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ViralVideoChart/~3/JxOKBNR1ZMY/youtube)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 05, 2014, 12:10:45 PM
Cristobal de Morales - Officum Defunctorum & Missa Pro Defunctis

https://www.youtube.com/v/v2PZFB-27hM

Jordi Savall, et al.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 08, 2014, 01:51:53 AM
Thanks for that antidote!  :)

[asin]B000KEGIHK[/asin]

Alonso Lobo (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alonso_Lobo) was actually close colleague of Victoria. This recording is my first acquintance with his music. I like it very much. If it is true that Victoria valued Lobo as an equal, that is wel deserved. The musical feel is however quite different. Lobo is incoporating more Italian influences and the result is a more, airy, transparent contrapunctual style. I do not quite get the Amazon review (though the reviewer in question knows his Early Music well). The voices DO blend well together, but not into a smooth ethereal sound British choir style. I haven't heard the Tallis in Lobo, but I bet that is what they offer. Music Ficta's sound is intimate, personal and sober. I guess it depends what you are looking for.  :)

My only quible is that this disc is with 56 minutes rather short measured...... But definitely recommended if you are into Spanish Renaissance - or rather: not to be missed.

Q



Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Moonfish on March 08, 2014, 06:03:05 PM
Quote from: Que on March 08, 2014, 01:51:53 AM
Thanks for that antidote!  :)

[asin]B000KEGIHK[/asin]

Alonso Lobo (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alonso_Lobo) was actually close colleague of Victoria. This recording is my first acquintance with his music. I like it very much. If it is true that Victoria valued Lobo as an equal, that is wel deserved. The musical feel is however quite different. Lobo is incoporating more Italian influences and the result is a more, airy, transparent contrapunctual style. I do not quite get the Amazon review (though the reviewer in question knows his Early Music well). The voices DO blend well together, but not into a smooth ethereal sound British choir style. I haven't heard the Tallis in Lobo, but I bet that is what they offer. Music Ficta's sound is intimate, personal and sober. I guess it depends what you are looking for.  :)

My only quible is that this disc is with 56 minutes rather short measured...... But definitely recommended if you are into Spanish Renaissance - or rather: not to be missed.

Q

The samples are beautiful! The Spanish Renaissance has so many neglected gems yet to be discovered. Thanks for recommending it!!! It is genre of music that I keep returning to as the vocal harmonies certainly are mesmerizing.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on April 24, 2014, 05:22:38 PM
Arcana has recently released a Mala Punica 3-CD boxed set:
[asin]B00H9KERSA[/asin]

From amazon:

The critically-acclaimed ensemble Mala Punica came into the limelight in the mid-1990's with a trilogy of illustrious, multi-award-winning discs on Arcana, which revolutionized the world of medieval music and performance practice: Ars subtilis Ytaliaca (A21), D'Amor ragionando (A22) and En attendant (A23). For the first time, all these milestone recordings are united in one set.

Any thoughts?  Thanks.   :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: petrarch on April 25, 2014, 04:01:20 AM
Quote from: HIPster on April 24, 2014, 05:22:38 PM
Arcana has recently released a Mala Punica 3-CD boxed set:
[asin]B00H9KERSA[/asin]

Any thoughts?  Thanks.   :)

Excellent performances and recording quality. I already had the D'amor ragionando CD, but the chance to get all three of their releases on Arcana was too good to pass.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on April 25, 2014, 08:43:13 AM
Quote from: HIPster on April 24, 2014, 05:22:38 PM
The critically-acclaimed ensemble Mala Punica came into the limelight in the mid-1990's with a trilogy of illustrious, multi-award-winning discs on Arcana, which revolutionized the world of medieval music and performance practice: Ars subtilis Ytaliaca (A21), D'Amor ragionando (A22) and En attendant (A23). For the first time, all these milestone recordings are united in one set.

Any thoughts?  Thanks.   :)

Very happy that you posted this - thanks! :)

Comments on these recordings in the past always have been very favourable - I've put it on the wish list right away.... 8)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on April 25, 2014, 10:10:59 AM
Quote from: HIPster on April 24, 2014, 05:22:38 PM
Arcana has recently released a Mala Punica 3-CD boxed set:
[asin]B00H9KERSA[/asin]

From amazon:

The critically-acclaimed ensemble Mala Punica came into the limelight in the mid-1990's with a trilogy of illustrious, multi-award-winning discs on Arcana, which revolutionized the world of medieval music and performance practice: Ars subtilis Ytaliaca (A21), D'Amor ragionando (A22) and En attendant (A23). For the first time, all these milestone recordings are united in one set.

Any thoughts?  Thanks.   :)

These are on spotify and they sound very dramatic and atmospheric, I'm looking forward to getting to know them. Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Moonfish on May 07, 2014, 11:08:56 PM
I could not find any entry for this collection at GMG (but it has to be here somewhere...).

Any thoughts on this collection of polyphony from Ricercar?

Content:
http://www.outhere-music.com/fr/albums/the-flemish-polyphony-colour-book-of-200-pages-8-cd-s-in-a-magnificent-box-ric-102/livret (http://www.outhere-music.com/fr/albums/the-flemish-polyphony-colour-book-of-200-pages-8-cd-s-in-a-magnificent-box-ric-102/livret)

[asin] B005IIA9GY[/asin]

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/91l21DR6E%2BL._SL1500_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Moonfish on May 07, 2014, 11:18:36 PM
I am also pondering Ciconia's Opera Omnia.  Wonderful samples on Spotify. I am mesmerized.......
Any thoughts on these recordings?

[asin] B0053SQSNM[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on May 08, 2014, 12:15:37 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on May 07, 2014, 11:18:36 PM
I am also pondering Ciconia's Opera Omnia.  Wonderful samples on Spotify. I am mesmerized.......
Any thoughts on these recordings?

[asin] B0053SQSNM[/asin]
They are state of the art.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on May 08, 2014, 01:12:04 AM
Quote from: The new erato on May 08, 2014, 12:15:37 AM
They are state of the art.

  I don't really feel you mean it that way, but that sounds more like a thumbs down than thumbs up:
"So, how is this album?"
"Well, the recording quality is very good...." :-\
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on May 08, 2014, 01:39:48 AM
Quote from: Baklavaboy on May 08, 2014, 01:12:04 AM
  I don't really feel you mean it that way, but that sounds more like a thumbs down than thumbs up:
"So, how is this album?"
"Well, the recording quality is very good...." :-\
They are state of the art in every way. They have collected dozens of prices and recommendations too.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on May 08, 2014, 03:43:55 AM
Quote from: Baklavaboy on May 08, 2014, 01:12:04 AM
  I don't really feel you mean it that way, but that sounds more like a thumbs down than thumbs up:
"So, how is this album?"
"Well, the recording quality is very good...." :-\
Diabolus in Musica is one of the best early music groups out there.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: petrarch on May 08, 2014, 05:17:34 PM
Quote from: North Star on May 08, 2014, 03:43:55 AM
Diabolus in Musica is one of the best early music groups out there.

+1. That Ciconia box is excellent.

Ricercar and the other Outhere labels (Alpha, Ramée, ZZT, Arcana, Aeon, ...) consistently have excellent releases, with outstanding performers and pristine recording quality.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: petrarch on May 08, 2014, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on May 07, 2014, 11:08:56 PM
I could not find any entry for this collection at GMG (but it has to be here somewhere...).

Any thoughts on this collection of polyphony from Ricercar?

Content:
http://www.outhere-music.com/fr/albums/the-flemish-polyphony-colour-book-of-200-pages-8-cd-s-in-a-magnificent-box-ric-102/livret (http://www.outhere-music.com/fr/albums/the-flemish-polyphony-colour-book-of-200-pages-8-cd-s-in-a-magnificent-box-ric-102/livret)

[asin] B005IIA9GY[/asin]

It's a very worthwhile box with plenty of material to dig through (both in music and in text). Recommended if you enjoy or would like to explore the music of the period. I also have (and recommend) the other 4 boxes they have released in a similar format.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Moonfish on May 08, 2014, 06:48:05 PM
Quote from: petrarch on May 08, 2014, 05:22:09 PM
It's a very worthwhile box with plenty of material to dig through (both in music and in text). Recommended if you enjoy or would like to explore the music of the period. I also have (and recommend) the other 4 boxes they have released in a similar format.

Ahhh, I was looking at those.  It seems like one is surrounded by musical temptations here at GMG. I presume they won't go OOP in the near future? Do you have the set that examines ancient instruments as well? If so, would you recommend it?

Is the Flemish polyphony set structured as an "educational" anthology, i.e. bits and pieces with unifying themes elucidated by the accompanying book?   
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on May 09, 2014, 12:31:55 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on May 08, 2014, 06:48:05 PM
Ahhh, I was looking at those.  It seems like one is surrounded by musical temptations here at GMG. I presume they won't go OOP in the near future? Do you have the set that examines ancient instruments as well? If so, would you recommend it?

Is the Flemish polyphony set structured as an "educational" anthology, i.e. bits and pieces with unifying themes elucidated by the accompanying book?   
The first customer review has a complete tracklist for the entire thing. No bits in these sets.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on May 09, 2014, 12:59:06 AM
Quote from: HIPster on April 24, 2014, 05:22:38 PM
Arcana has recently released a Mala Punica 3-CD boxed set:
[asin]B00H9KERSA[/asin]

Any thoughts?  Thanks.   :)

The Ars Subtilior is a distinctive style, which may demand some acclimatization, but which in the end may be very addictive.

When these CDs were released, some reviewers called the realisations a bit too inventive, and maybe a few of the works are made too long, but the sounding result is IMO splendid, and the musicians and singers are first class. I have lived happily with these CDs for almost 15 years.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on May 09, 2014, 01:08:38 AM
Quote from: The new erato on May 08, 2014, 12:15:37 AM
They are state of the art.

It is difficult to talk about "state of the art", when we know so little about the performance practice of these pieces.

But I agree that the CD by Diabolus in Musica is a fine contribution to the relative sparse Ciconia discography. I am more reserved as to the CD by La Morra, i do not think they always find the right pure and intimate mood for these pieces, but I may be biased by other Ciconia recordings, by Studio der Frühe Musik and Paul van Nevel e.g.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on May 09, 2014, 01:14:24 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on May 09, 2014, 01:08:38 AM
It is difficult to talk about "state of the art", when we know so little about the performance practice of these pieces.

But I agree that the CD by Diabolus in Musica is a fine contribution to the relative sparse Ciconia discography. I am more reserved as to the CD by La Morra, i do not think they always find the right pure and intimate mood for these pieces, but I may be biased by other Ciconia recordings, by Studio der Frühe Musik and Paul van Nevel e.g.
Studio der Frühe Musik made me discover this music. I was an Andrea von Ramm groupie in a former life.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: petrarch on May 09, 2014, 04:44:08 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on May 08, 2014, 06:48:05 PM
Do you have the set that examines ancient instruments as well? If so, would you recommend it?

Yes and yes.

Quote from: Moonfish on May 08, 2014, 06:48:05 PM
Is the Flemish polyphony set structured as an "educational" anthology, i.e. bits and pieces with unifying themes elucidated by the accompanying book?   

Yes, within the constraints of what is possible in a small book (the text is repeated in 3 or 4 languages), but it is still a good overview. You can check the track listing and the performers here: http://www.outhere-music.com/fr/albums/the-flemish-polyphony-colour-book-of-200-pages-8-cd-s-in-a-magnificent-box-ric-102/livret (http://www.outhere-music.com/fr/albums/the-flemish-polyphony-colour-book-of-200-pages-8-cd-s-in-a-magnificent-box-ric-102/livret)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Moonfish on May 28, 2014, 02:57:23 PM
Douce Amie: Troubadour Songs & Minstrel Dances    Millenarium

Fantastic! Quite a surprise! A very innovative and creative web of music from the middle ages. Millenarium was much more engaging than I expected. The soundscape is intriguing. So my understanding so far is that these pieces are fragments of music from this time that then are improvised upon? Is that a proper interpretation?

[asin]B000079BAL[/asin]

from
[asin] B008CT7022[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Octave on June 15, 2014, 12:04:38 AM
Re: FLEMISH POLYPHONY box (Ricercar label):
Quote from: Moonfish on May 07, 2014, 11:08:56 PM
Any thoughts on this collection of polyphony from Ricercar?

You asked about this over a month ago, so I imagine by now you own it   ;)
but I think it's great and I find the packaging quite attractive with thick booklet/book in a kind of chocolate-box slipcase.
One thing about it, if you go bonkers for this music by these groups, you might end up with the full releases (several labels) from which the contents of the box is drawn.  I think you have seen the Amazon review which helpfully lists some or all of those original releases.  For example, I just got that Pierre de la Rue 3cd set ~40 minutes of which is on the Ricercar anthology.
I have been even more enthralled with the Ciconia.

Have you (or anyone here) listened all of the Millenarium box?  Is the whole thing recommended?  When you are finished with it, some more comment would be most welcome.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Moonfish on June 18, 2014, 06:46:57 PM
Quote from: Octave on June 15, 2014, 12:04:38 AM
Re: FLEMISH POLYPHONY box (Ricercar label):
You asked about this over a month ago, so I imagine by now you own it   ;)
but I think it's great and I find the packaging quite attractive with thick booklet/book in a kind of chocolate-box slipcase.
One thing about it, if you go bonkers for this music by these groups, you might end up with the full releases (several labels) from which the contents of the box is drawn.  I think you have seen the Amazon review which helpfully lists some or all of those original releases.  For example, I just got that Pierre de la Rue 3cd set ~40 minutes of which is on the Ricercar anthology.
I have been even more enthralled with the Ciconia.

Have you (or anyone here) listened all of the Millenarium box?  Is the whole thing recommended?  When you are finished with it, some more comment would be most welcome.

Yep, it is on my shelf right now. I have mixed feelings about the booklet (books). Even though they contain a lot of information it feels redundant to have it in so many different languages. I would rather have more information in one selected language (perhaps complemented by translations online). Regardless, a unique approach to be explored.
In regards to the Millenarium set I am still working myself through it and enjoying it immensely. Millenarium has a rich fresh spectrum of music and creativity that they bring to their recordings. I felt surprised by the immediacy and vivid presence of the music. They remind me a bit of Savall and his numerous recordings with Hesperion XX. So far I view these recordings as gems that I will treasure. Definitely worth digging into as far as I am concerned.  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 27, 2014, 11:53:38 PM
Quote from: Octave on June 15, 2014, 12:04:38 AM
Re: FLEMISH POLYPHONY box (Ricercar label):
You asked about this over a month ago, so I imagine by now you own it   ;)
but I think it's great and I find the packaging quite attractive with thick booklet/book in a kind of chocolate-box slipcase.
One thing about it, if you go bonkers for this music by these groups, you might end up with the full releases (several labels) from which the contents of the box is drawn.

Apart from the inconvenient format and hesitations on whether the documentation goes all that deep considering the many translations, it is the hotch-potch nature of the musical content that keeps me back from those - admittedly wonderful looking - "music books" by Ricercar and Hesperion....

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 28, 2014, 12:11:27 AM
Orlando Lassus by the German ensemble Singer Pur. What an amazing performance! :)

With a-one-voice-per-part (OVPP) approach, this is very expressive and intensely engaging. Lassus is showcasing his Despres lineage via Gombert and the ensemble give us a full picture with all the rhythmic details. Sounded even much better on a 2nd hearing- all the detailing requires a fresh ear! :)

[asin]B001S86JAS[/asin]

Actually, there is very little to add to Amazon's Giordano Bruno's review:

QuoteFive Choir Boys and a Lovely Lass
No disrespect intended! That's how Singer Pur identifies its members. How this plays out between rehearsals is none of our business. The ensemble is twenty years old this year and extremely successful in Europe, with assorted prizes, performances at all the major festivals, twenty or more CDs on the market, and an ongoing program of workshops in vocal technique in their hometown of Regensburg. They are one of the premiere "a capella" vocal ensembles in the world and one of the few that perform with equal artistry both Renaissance polyphony and more modern genres. HIPPsters, don't be disdainful of this sextet for producing Christmas albums and excursions into Pop and Kitsch! When an ensemble sings the motets of Orlando di Lasso as superbly as Singer Pur on this CD, any "misadventure" may be forgiven.

Singer Pur performs Renaissance polyphony one-voice-per-part. In many cases, the 'superius' is sung by high tenor Klaus Wenk. You'll hear the all-male quintet on several of the nine Lasso motets included on this CD. When the superius is sung by soprano Hedwig Westhof-Düppmann, the balance and match-up of timbres remains PUR gold. Singer Pur never sacrifices the expressiveness of its tenor and bass voices in favor of a bright top-loaded imbalance. Hedwig is certainly lovely, but vocally she's one of the boys.

Orlando di Lasso (1532-1594) was unquestionably the best-known, most influential, and most prolific composer of his era. The earliest "complete" edition of works reached forty volumes. His early career left him time for experimentation in secular genres -- partsongs in Italian, French, German, and Flemish -- but the bulk of his work consists of sacred vocal music in Latin. The "market" for such music was insatiable; even today previously unknown motets by Lasso are found whenever an old castle or cathedral cabinet is pried open. Lasso was the heir of all the great "Franco-Flemish" polyphonists, but especially of Nikolas Gombert (149s-1560). The central opus of this CD, Lasso's Missa Tous Les Regretz, not only recycles material from the Gombert French chanson of the same title but also expands and polishes the innovative harmonic 'language' that distinguished Gombert from his predecessors. Gombert's chanson, by the way, is sung as the last track on this CD. It's a work that still seems harmonically bold even after later works from Gesualdo to Schoenberg to Szysmanowski. This entire performance stirs with thrilling but entirely logical 'dissonances' and chromaticisms. Modern ears are hard to surprise, of course, but this performance will overcome any complacency you might feel about "Early" Music.

Lasso's musical imagination is most obvious in his variety of rhythms and phrases. None of the nine motets on this CD sound boringly like any other. Singer Pur is masterful (and mistressful) in extracting Lasso's rhythmic subtleties and in shaping the emotional rhetoric of his phrases. That's a good part of what distinguishes this performance from performances by lesser ensembles such as Pro Cantione Antiqua or The Tallis Scholars. Let's be blunt: this is as fine a performance of Lasso as any I've ever heard.


Singer Pur also did part 2 of the Lassus series by Musique en Wallonie (http://www.musiwall.ulg.ac.be/spip.php?page=accueil) (sorry, they don not seem to speak any English):

[asin]B009VPETDO[/asin]

Now, that might be next on my shopping list. :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on June 28, 2014, 05:16:40 AM
Quote from: Que on June 28, 2014, 12:11:27 AM
Orlando Lassus by the German ensemble Singer Pur. What an amazing performance! :)

With a-one-voice-per-part (OVPP) approach, this is very expressive and intensely engaging. Lassus is showcasing his Despres lineage via Gombert and the ensemble give us a full picture with all the rhythmic details. Sounded even much better on a 2nd hearing- all the detailing requires a fresh ear! :)

[asin]B001S86JAS[/asin]

So far I haven't been able to really connect with Lassus. Actually with majority of late Renaissance (Spain excepted), too smooth. Maybe ovpp could really work for me. Where did you get the disc? Looks out of print.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 28, 2014, 05:45:06 AM
Quote from: Drasko on June 28, 2014, 05:16:40 AM
So far I haven't beB006RD8VT6

n able to really connect with Lassus. Actually with majority of late Renaissance (Spain excepted), too smooth. Maybe ovpp could really work for me. Where did you get the disc? Looks out of print.

I think you're right in your assumption and would defintely try OVVP. :)

This disc is still on sale at jpc: http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Orlando-di-Lasso-Lassus-1532-1594-Missa-Tous-les-regrets/hnum/3866757

Also note that this disc is under two asin nrs on Amazon: B001S86JAS  and the one that is OOP: B006RD8VT6

Q



Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on June 28, 2014, 07:59:36 AM
Quote from: Que on June 28, 2014, 12:11:27 AM
Orlando Lassus by the German ensemble Singer Pur. What an amazing performance! :)

With a-one-voice-per-part (OVPP) approach, this is very expressive and intensely engaging. Lassus is showcasing his Despres lineage via Gombert and the ensemble give us a full picture with all the rhythmic details. Sounded even much better on a 2nd hearing- all the detailing requires a fresh ear! :)

[asin]B001S86JAS[/asin]

Actually, there is very little to add to Amazon's Giordano Bruno's review:

Q

Well, I've just ordered this. . .  Thanks, Q.  Looks incredible!

I'm not sure who is "worse" at helping me to lighten my load financially: Q (here), or 'Giordano Bruno' (amazon). . .  Collusion?  ::) :laugh: :)

There are many GMGers who have helped my music collection to grow - and my appreciation of the music - over the last year; thank you!

OVPP is/was the ticket for me to get into choral works in general.  Have yet to hear OVPP~Lassus, so very much looking forward to the arrival of this release.

Thanks again, Q!  ;)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on June 28, 2014, 11:38:23 AM
Quote from: Que on June 28, 2014, 05:45:06 AM
I think you're right in your assumption and would defintely try OVVP. :)

This disc is still on sale at jpc: http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Orlando-di-Lasso-Lassus-1532-1594-Missa-Tous-les-regrets/hnum/3866757

Also note that this disc is under two asin nrs on Amazon: B001S86JAS  and the one that is OOP: B006RD8VT6

Q

Ah, jpc ... 5 euros for the CD and then the rest of my monthly income for shipping.  ::)

I'll check the amazons. Thanks!

And finally a reissue of something I've been waiting for long time. Not technically early music but sounding magnificently primordial to me.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81ZdjfvkMaL._SL1476_.jpg)

... and taster for those who might be interested:

http://www.youtube.com/v/EXR75n7OH7o
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on July 13, 2014, 12:59:39 AM
Quote from: Drasko on June 28, 2014, 11:38:23 AM
And finally a reissue of something I've been waiting for long time. Not technically early music but sounding magnificently primordial to me.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81ZdjfvkMaL._SL1476_.jpg)

Thanks for mentioning it!  :) I'lll definitely check it out - despite the fact that (unlike the "Gold" series), presentation and documentation in this particular series is not up to scratch...... :(

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on July 13, 2014, 01:45:49 AM
Some brief comments on this new addition:

[asin]B009VPETE8[/asin]

The set focuses on Desprez' contemporaries connected to the Sistine Chapel and includes, besides a selection from Josquin  Desprez's oeuvre, premiere recordings of works by Gaspar van Weerbeke, Bertrandus Vequeras and Marbrianus de Orto.

The American ensemble Cut Circle sings two-voice-per-part.A very fine group IMO. Perhaps they fall just a tiny bit short of being in the top league that IMO includes Cinquecento, Stimmwerck and Singer Pur - just to mention a few "newer" ensembles. But they come close and will soon join those IMO.

I will keep it brief, since the review linked below by Johan van Veen will tell much more. One of the main attractions of this set is the inclusion of the music by Mabrianus de Orto. The 2nd disc focuses on the song L'homme arme and puts the masses on this theme by Marbrianus and Desprez next to each other. It is a pity that Jesse Rodin and his group were not bold enough to do a full Marbrianus de Orto set, the Desprez material on the 1st disc are only excerpts and all that material is already availble on other recordings. Not that it is not nice to hear the different composers next to each other, but obviously that effect will wear off with repeated listening.

To summarize: plenty of attractions for the more seasoned Early Music collector in terms of quality of the performance by a new ensemble and unfamiliar repertoire. And the perfect presentation and documentation - a hard cover booklet with the discs front and back - is a joy in itself. Not a first priority for others.

Review from Musicweb, which featured this set a "Recording of the month":

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/May13/DeOrto_Josquin_MEW12651266.htm

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Moonfish on July 13, 2014, 05:42:05 AM
Quote from: Drasko on June 28, 2014, 11:38:23 AM
Ah, jpc ... 5 euros for the CD and then the rest of my monthly income for shipping.  ::)

I'll check the amazons. Thanks!

And finally a reissue of something I've been waiting for long time. Not technically early music but sounding magnificently primordial to me.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81ZdjfvkMaL._SL1476_.jpg)

... and taster for those who might be interested:

http://www.youtube.com/v/EXR75n7OH7o

Fantastic! The Corsican chant is definitely unique!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on July 14, 2014, 09:10:03 AM
Maybe slightly off-topic, and with a bit of delay, but Rest in Peace Lycourgos Angelopoulos.  :(

http://www.youtube.com/v/YmO952zqquA
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on September 09, 2014, 08:26:20 AM
Hyperions "Please buy me" sale has lots of Gimell stuff by the Tallis Scholars.

http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/o.asp?o=1016&vw=dc (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/o.asp?o=1016&vw=dc)

Unfortunately I already have most of it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: clavichorder on October 11, 2014, 07:34:37 AM
Is this thread about Medieval music mostly, or does it also accommodate music into the high renaissance and early baroque?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on October 11, 2014, 11:21:45 PM
Quote from: clavichorder on October 11, 2014, 07:34:37 AM
Is this thread about Medieval music mostly, or does it also accommodate music into the high renaissance and early baroque?

Medieval and Renaissance,  but indeed, there is always the question where Renaissance ended and Baroque began. :) There are inevitablycomposers that are somewhere in betweeen.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: clavichorder on October 12, 2014, 09:19:33 AM
Quote from: Que on October 11, 2014, 11:21:45 PM
Medieval and Renaissance,  but indeed, there is always the question where Renaissance ended and Baroque began. :) There are inevitablycomposers that are somewhere in betweeen.

Q

Cool.  I tend to think of my favorite music from the high renaissance as being more related aurally to baroque music, but if this is a thread for it, I will post some of my favorites.

I love this disc of English Renaissance keyboard music:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/010/MI0001010036.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

And this is my preferred performance/recording of Gibbons viol consort music:

(http://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/others/BKD486.gif)

And this is a fantastic selection of John Bull keyboard works, performed by Hantai very energetically:

(http://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/others/E8838.gif)

And last(for now), the recording I have of Weelkes vocal music:

(http://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/others/OBSID-CD708.gif)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: king ubu on October 14, 2014, 03:11:21 AM
Oh yes, that Hantai Bull disc is great!

Re: Gibbons, clavier musicke, I enjoy this one quite some:

[asin]B000EQHV9S[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Brian on October 22, 2014, 05:16:37 PM
This is unusual: a CD funded by Kickstarter!

(http://images.cdbaby.name/h/a/harmoniousblacksmith1.jpg)

$16,500 raised on Kickstarter led to this recording of Spanish Renaissance and Baroque dances. Composers include Santiago Murcia, Gaspar Sanz, Jacob van Eyck, and Jose Marin, but also huge amounts of improvisation by the ensemble, including a concluding group improv based on an original theme, and a whole new song credited to the percussionist.

Justin Godoy, recorder
Joseph Gasho, harpsichord and organ
William Simms, theorbo and baroque guitar
Andrew Arceci, viola da gamba, bass, and colascione
Glen Velez, percussion

Three tracks in, this is an absolute peach. Total treat. Good job, Kickstarter!!

CD on CDBaby (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/harmoniousblacksmith1)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: DaveF on October 30, 2014, 10:04:24 AM
Quote from: clavichorder on October 12, 2014, 09:19:33 AM

And this is my preferred performance/recording of Gibbons viol consort music:

(http://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/others/BKD486.gif)


Definitely, even though it probably also belongs in the "Worst CD Cover" thread.  Wendy Gillespie has every reason to look worried.  But those 6-part fantasias... and the second 5-part In Nomine... Couldn't get better than that.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on November 04, 2014, 02:36:42 AM
Postman brought this today. I got it second hand from Japan for a really good price (although more than the ultra-bargains some of you apparently got).  I'm so glad I managed to wrangle a copy (seems to be harder and harder to track down).  Anticipating a lot of profound musical enjoyment. 

[asin]B00205RKMO[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: DaveF on November 25, 2014, 03:12:01 AM
.
[asin]B00NTDIA0C[/asin]

Vol.3 of Pieter-Jan Belder's Fitzwilliam Book is just out from Brilliant which, if it's as good as the first two, will be worth having.  Track listings are hard to find and even then (such as on Brilliant's own site) not quite right - the first track on Disc 1 is not the Pavana Pagget but another one (no.85 in the FVB); the third on Disc 2 is correctly listed as the Pagget one.  So not the same piece twice.  But basically it's mostly Peter Phillips with a bit of Sweelinck.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on December 09, 2014, 12:44:03 PM
I don´t know if it´s been discussed before, but the complete set of Cantigas de Santa Maria by the Musica Antigua ensemble conducted by Eduardo Paniagua is mind-blowing. A must for every Early Music afficionado.


Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on December 09, 2014, 02:09:33 PM
Quote from: Florestan on December 09, 2014, 12:44:03 PM
I don´t know if it´s been discussed before, but the complete set of Cantigas de Santa Maria by the Musica Antigua ensemble conducted by Eduardo Paniagua is mind-blowing. A must for every Early Music afficionado.

I can't recall that it has been mentioned before.Is this it?

[asin]B0000029OR[/asin]

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: torut on December 21, 2014, 07:35:32 PM
Earliest known piece of polyphonic music discovered (http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/earliest-known-piece-of-polyphonic-music-discovered)

(http://www.cam.ac.uk/sites/www.cam.ac.uk/files/styles/content-580x288/public/news/news/varellicrop.jpg?itok=XMdBAGNp)
The inscription is believed to date back to the start of the 10th century and is the setting of a short chant dedicated to Boniface, patron Saint of Germany.
https://www.youtube.com/v/F5vqAU_EqG4

Isn't this Organum from Musica enchiriadis (late 9th century) the earliest notation of polyphony?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Musica_enchiriadis_Rex_celi.png/440px-Musica_enchiriadis_Rex_celi.png)
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musica_enchiriadis
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: torut on December 21, 2014, 07:41:04 PM
Quote from: HIPster on April 24, 2014, 05:22:38 PM
Arcana has recently released a Mala Punica 3-CD boxed set:
[asin]B00H9KERSA[/asin]
Thanks everyone who recommended this set. It is extremely beautiful. I will check out other recordings mentioned here.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on December 22, 2014, 04:36:20 AM
Quote from: Que on December 09, 2014, 02:09:33 PM
I can't recall that it has been mentioned before.Is this it?

[asin]B0000029OR[/asin]

Q

Sorry for the belated reply, I've been rather busy in other threads.  :D

That's only a small part of it. You can find an incomplete discography here: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/pneuma/cantigae.htm (http://www.ctv.es/USERS/pneuma/cantigae.htm).

For complete discography, with complete previews of each cd, see here: https://www.youtube.com/user/emallohuergo/search?query=cantigas (https://www.youtube.com/user/emallohuergo/search?query=cantigas).

Hope it helps.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on December 22, 2014, 10:54:41 PM
Quote from: Florestan on December 22, 2014, 04:36:20 AM
Sorry for the belated reply, I've been rather busy in other threads.  :D

That's only a small part of it. You can find an incomplete discography here: http://www.ctv.es/USERS/pneuma/cantigae.htm (http://www.ctv.es/USERS/pneuma/cantigae.htm).

For complete discography, with complete previews of each cd, see here: https://www.youtube.com/user/emallohuergo/search?query=cantigas (https://www.youtube.com/user/emallohuergo/search?query=cantigas).

Hope it helps.

Thanks!  :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Bogey on December 23, 2014, 04:41:25 AM
Quote from: Mookalafalas on November 04, 2014, 02:36:42 AM
Postman brought this today. I got it second hand from Japan for a really good price (although more than the ultra-bargains some of you apparently got).  I'm so glad I managed to wrangle a copy (seems to be harder and harder to track down).  Anticipating a lot of profound musical enjoyment. 

[asin]B00205RKMO[/asin]

Great pick up.  I will have to dust mine off this week.  I have not listened to it in some time.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 29, 2014, 08:38:12 AM
Extremely intesting book review about the reception history of medieval music here


http://academiccommons.columbia.edu/catalog/ac%3A179363

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: petrarch on December 29, 2014, 11:37:52 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 29, 2014, 08:38:12 AM
Extremely intesting book review about the reception history of medieval music here

http://academiccommons.columbia.edu/catalog/ac%3A179363

Yes, very interesting indeed! Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Artem on February 22, 2015, 01:09:07 PM
I have listened to this CD already twice and I rather like it. I like how compact Gombert's compositions are. Everybody says that they're very dense and tight and I think it is a fitting description. I'm not hearing too much variety in his compositions yet, but there some stand out pieces, like the Media vita in motte sumus motet, which opens this album.

[asin]B000CCBC2G[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 24, 2015, 10:36:36 AM
I'm assuming this box has been mentioned, but if not - it is a good one.  I was reminded of it by a post of a different recording of the Ockeghem Requiem in the New Purchases Thread -

[asin]B008BT104M[/asin]

Has all my favorites.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 26, 2015, 02:09:14 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 24, 2015, 10:36:36 AM
Has all my favorites.

  I can't agree with this statement, but I do heartily endorse your opinion of the overall worth of the box.  Although the quality of each disc is high, I feel there is a sort of homogeneity of performance style that leads me to play this in limited doses.  I like to play it before I go to sleep, and upon awaking, but my wife isn't a fan, unfortunately, and those are the times when we listen together :-[  I think I will rip this to my hard-drive, and make a big mixed playlist with this, early harpsichord music, and Jordi Savall stuff.  I feel like a chef who has just had a brilliant insight into the ingredients to the perfect dish ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: DaveF on February 26, 2015, 12:49:35 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 24, 2015, 10:36:36 AM
I'm assuming this box has been mentioned, but if not - it is a good one.  I was reminded of it by a post of a different recording of the Ockeghem Requiem in the New Purchases Thread -

[asin]B008BT104M[/asin]

Has all my favorites.

And, oh dear, it can be got for about £15 or $20.  Thanks, I think.

Picked up this today in a charity shop for £1:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gregorian-Chants-Magnificat/dp/B000025YAK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424986969&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gregorian-Chants-Magnificat/dp/B000025YAK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424986969&sr=8-1)

which at first sight looks like one of those ghastly "Gregorian Moods" discs complete with disco beat, but is in fact by the group Magnificat (Edward Wickham et al) and contains over 2 hours of superb chant singing, including the Missa pro defunctis, a Mass ordinary and lots of antiphons.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 26, 2015, 11:09:40 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 24, 2015, 10:36:36 AM
I'm assuming this box has been mentioned, but if not - it is a good one.  I was reminded of it by a post of a different recording of the Ockeghem Requiem in the New Purchases Thread -

[asin]B008BT104M[/asin]

Has all my favorites.

It's great deal. But stylistically outdated IMO. For me personally the British choral style and Franco-Flemish composers simply does not compute... ::)
These days there are plenty of preferable alternatives by other ensembles. :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 27, 2015, 01:45:41 AM
Quote from: Que on February 26, 2015, 11:09:40 PM
It's great deal. But stylistically outdated IMO. For me personally the British choral style and Franco-Flemish composers simply does not compute... ::)
These days there are plenty of preferable alternatives by other ensembles. :)

Q

Interesting.  I haven't kept up with the newer recordings, but some of the ones recommended here I've been sampling.  All very nice.   I used to listen to early music much more than in the last decade or more, but I find myself drifting back. 

:)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on February 27, 2015, 02:56:27 AM
Quote from: Que on February 26, 2015, 11:09:40 PM
. For me personally the British choral style and Franco-Flemish composers simply does not compute... ::)
These days there are plenty of preferable alternatives by other ensembles. :)

Q
I totally agree. They sound to cold and clinical (to generalize absurdly).
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 27, 2015, 05:55:01 AM
I admit compared to most of you I am a dabbler in this repertory.  But I have listened to a lot of it over a long stretch of time.  I find it a little odd that your opinions of the Hilliard group's recording of Ockeghem is so negative.  Apparently the very things I love about their performance, you dislike, e.g. "cold and clinical", which I would describe as clean, restrained and entirely suited to the music.

:-\

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on February 27, 2015, 07:25:47 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 27, 2015, 05:55:01 AM
I admit compared to most of you I am a dabbler in this repertory.  But I have listened to a lot of it over a long stretch of time.  I find it a little odd that your opinions of the Hilliard group's recording of Ockeghem is so negative.  Apparently the very things I love about their performance, you dislike, e.g. "cold and clinical", which I would describe as clean, restrained and entirely suited to the music.

:-\
I like it gritty, as in sung by real people, not angels. Which is also an effect of using a smaller number of voices in an more intimate acoustic. A personal preference and view I've come to after listening to this music for 40 years. Which doesn't mean you have to agree. But after hearing this music sung by Singer Pur, Capella Pratensis, The Sound and Fury, Cinquecento etc the traditional English choral style just seems mostly dull to me in this strictly polyphonic music, beautiful, but lacking sentiment.  And it also blurs the sense of the polyphonic lines so important in this music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 27, 2015, 07:35:07 AM
Quote from: The new erato on February 27, 2015, 07:25:47 AM
I like it gritty, as in sung by real people, not angels. Which is also an effect of using a smaller number of voices in an more intimate acoustic. A personal preference and view I've come to after listening to this music for 40 years. Which doesn't mean you have to agree. But after hearing this music sung by Singer Pur, Capella Pratensis, The Sound and Fury, Cinquecento etc the traditional English choral style just seems mostly dull to me in this strictly polyphonic music, beautiful, but lacking sentiment.  And it also blurs the sense of the polyphonic lines so important in this music.

Understood.  Of the groups you mention, only The Sound and Fury are unknown to me, and do not seem to be on Spotify.  Singer Pur is the the most recent new group I've  listened to.  Can't say I'm overwhelmed yet.  But, I prefer all male groups.  I also have an ongoing interest in the Hilliard Ensemble because of their performance outside of the Early Music repertory.

Thanks for your comments, I do consider myself while not an outright novice regarding music from these periods, at least not anywhere near as expert as you and Que, and others who contribute to this topic.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on February 27, 2015, 07:41:15 AM
Quote from: The new erato on February 27, 2015, 07:25:47 AM
I like it gritty, as in sung by real people, not angels. Which is also an effect of using a smaller number of voices in an more intimate acoustic. A personal preference and view I've come to after listening to this music for 40 years. Which doesn't mean you have to agree. But after hearing this music sung by Singer Pur, Capella Pratensis, The Sound and Fury, Cinquecento etc the traditional English choral style just seems mostly dull to me in this strictly polyphonic music, beautiful, but lacking sentiment.  And it also blurs the sense of the polyphonic lines so important in this music.
Agreed, but I'm not sure 'gritty' is the right word. The sound of one voice per part ensembles (or the odd great ones with two voices) is more direct of course, with the ensemble being more together and not making every dynamic change gradual.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 27, 2015, 07:47:38 AM
Actually, I guess The Sound an Fury are on Spotify, but from the CD covers I thought they were different band with the same name; a punk rock band.

;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on February 27, 2015, 07:55:06 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 27, 2015, 07:47:38 AM
Actually, I guess The Sound an Fury are on Spotify, but from the CD covers I thought they were different band with the same name; a punk rock band.

;D
:laugh:
Yeah, those covers are really something.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 27, 2015, 08:19:29 AM
Quote from: North Star on February 27, 2015, 07:41:15 AM
Agreed, but I'm not sure 'gritty' is the right word. The sound of one voice per part ensembles (or the odd great ones with two voices) is more direct of course, with the ensemble being more together and not making every dynamic change gradual.

If I am not mistaken, The Hilliard do utilize OVPP for most of their early recordings, and I am pretty sure their recording of the  Ockeghem Requiem is OVPP.  The recording was made in a church, and quite reverberant, this can undermine the clarify of each voice, but does enhance the ensemble blend.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on February 27, 2015, 08:36:52 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 27, 2015, 08:19:29 AMIf I am not mistaken, The Hilliard do utilize OVPP for most of their early recordings, and I am pretty sure their recording of the  Ockeghem Requiem is OVPP.  The recording was made in a church, and quite reverberant, this can undermine the clarify of each voice, but does enhance the ensemble blend.
'Ensemble blend' - apart from timing - isn't necessarily a good thing though, if it means that the individual lines can't be followed. In any case, I wasn't commenting on the Hilliard recording, and instead took what Erato said on a more general level.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 27, 2015, 08:42:09 AM
I suppose it comes down to what we are looking for in the performance of this music.  For me, I prefer a meditative and ephemeral sound that serves to quiet the mind - I am seeking the music to be an inducement to the spiritual, which is how I understand the music to have been written. 

To the extent an ensemble wishes to make the music "gritty", it probably will not appeal to me.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on February 27, 2015, 09:06:50 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 27, 2015, 08:42:09 AM
I suppose it comes down to what we are looking for in the performance of this music.  For me, I prefer a meditative and ephemeral sound that serves to quiet the mind - I am seeking the music to be an inducement to the spiritual, which is how I understand the music to have been written.
I'm sure that's a part of why I listen to early music as well.
QuoteTo the extent an ensemble wishes to make the music "gritty", it probably will not appeal to me.
'Gritty' is not something I look for either.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 28, 2015, 12:30:28 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 27, 2015, 08:42:09 AM
I suppose it comes down to what we are looking for in the performance of this music.  For me, I prefer a meditative and ephemeral sound that serves to quiet the mind - I am seeking the music to be an inducement to the spiritual, which is how I understand the music to have been written. 

To the extent an ensemble wishes to make the music "gritty", it probably will not appeal to me.

I would say earthy or more human than angelic. There is more to the issue about some of British ensembles than just OVPP. It is about the choral/ ensemble sound, particularly the male voices - both low and high, it is about phrasing, diction. Music is usually transposed upwards to accomadate the taste for a higher , more "angelic" sound of choirs with larger propotions of female voices and male altos. (Just listen to the grumbling basses in  the Huelgas ensemble in comparison) It is simply not always idiomatic or authentic....

Please don't mind me and enjoy nonetheless,  I am simply pointing out that there is more out there and it might be of interest to you. :)
Ockeghem by the French Ensemble Musica Nova or Ensemble Organum, or De la Rue by the Flemish ensemble Capilla Flamenca can be a very satisfying experience.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 28, 2015, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: Que on February 28, 2015, 12:30:28 AM
I would say earthy or more human than angelic. There is more to the issue about some of British ensembles than just OVPP. It is about the choral/ ensemble sound, particularly the male voices - both low and high, it is about phrasing, diction. Music is usually transposed upwards to accomadate the taste for a higher , more "angelic" sound of choirs with larger propotions of female voices and male altos. (Just listen to the grumbling basses in  the Huelgas ensemble in comparison) It is simply not always idiomatic or authentic....

Please don't mind me and enjoy nonetheless,  I am simply pointing out that there is more out there and it might be of interest to you. :)
Ockeghem by the French Ensemble Musica Nova or Ensemble Organum, or De la Rue by the Flemish ensemble Capilla Flamenca can be a very satisfying experience.

Q

I only have heard Dufay by Ensemble Musica Nova (like it a lot), but I heard a fairly significant mount from Ensemble Organum, which I also enjoy.  I have heard Capilla Flamenca on this compilation set:

[asin]B00HFDKT24[/asin]

I was not trying to argue for the Hilliard Ensemble as much as trying to gain an insight as to your and other's reasons for being negative. 

Thanks for your post.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 28, 2015, 11:41:40 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 28, 2015, 04:08:24 PM
I was not trying to argue for the Hilliard Ensemble as much as trying to gain an insight as to your and other's reasons for being negative. 

Thanks for your post.

You are welcome. :)

The British deserve a lot of credit for being pioneers  in the Early Music scene and had a great tradition to build on. But practices and perceptions have shifted since those days. Some ensembles have adapted their ways when performing certain repertoire, singing in smaller forces, using more authenic diction and refrain from transposing the music upwards. But its seems to be complicated to deciphere what is what. Keep an eye on the reviews by Giordano Bruno on Amazon, he is well informed. :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on March 01, 2015, 12:18:04 AM
Nice discussion! This is opening my eyes to some extent. I went straight for the British stuff because that was what I had heard of, and is most readily available.  I suspect that the homogeneity, and hence my tendency to only like the music in smaller doses (as I mentioned in an earlier post), is exactly due to the criticisms voiced.  It is lovely and very well done, but (for me anyway) is like a really sweet beverage--at first sip I'm delighted, but soon want something else to actually satisfy my thirst. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 01, 2015, 11:56:08 AM
I like this a lot - curious about other views

[asin]B000000R38[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 03, 2015, 10:17:07 AM
De Fevin : Requiem d'Anne De Bretagne
Doulce Memoire

[asin]B004V4GXX4[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on March 03, 2015, 01:57:33 PM
I am relatively new to this board and I am delighted to have discovered this thread. I like Early Music but I really do not know a lot about it relative to other eras. I therefore look forward to spending some time reading this thread in order to enlighten myself and further educate myself in the beauties of this sound world.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 03, 2015, 03:00:18 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 01, 2015, 11:56:08 AM
I like this a lot - curious about other views

[asin]B000000R38[/asin]

I do not have that Ciconia disc, but I love that ensemble on the basis of this special disc by them (appropriately containing (Italian) Ars Nova):

[asin]B003LUH5OU[/asin]

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 03, 2015, 03:05:50 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 03, 2015, 10:17:07 AM
De Fevin : Requiem d'Anne De Bretagne
Doulce Memoire

[asin]B004V4GXX4[/asin]

I am jealous!  ??? :) That has on my shopping list forever.... ::)
Just in case you don't already have, it a recommendation of a set with two of their other reocrdings:

[asin]B0019GKI9W[/asin]

Q

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 03, 2015, 03:52:04 PM
Q,

Thanks for the other recommendations;  both recordings are on Spotify, as well as this one of Landini:

[asin]B000003UYI[/asin]

:)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on March 03, 2015, 04:38:56 PM
This recording by Doulce Memoire is outstanding.

Been getting a lot of plays here as of late~
[asin]B00CD5J31W[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 03, 2015, 06:01:09 PM
Quote from: aligreto on March 03, 2015, 01:57:33 PM
I am relatively new to this board and I am delighted to have discovered this thread. I like Early Music but I really do not know a lot about it relative to other eras. I therefore look forward to spending some time reading this thread in order to enlighten myself and further educate myself in the beauties of this sound world.

There are members who contribute to this thread who are more knowledgeable than I, but the most representative and reasonably priced introduction to early music I can think of is this box from Naxos:

[asin]B00HFDKT24[/asin]

While it mainly has movements from larger works it will expose you to a large selection composers and ensembles so that through it you can find ones you may wish to study in more depth.  Generally good performances.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 03, 2015, 09:38:31 PM
I wish the Huelgas Ensemble's Labyrinth box set was still available, that would have been my primary recommendation... ::)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0886974784425.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Moonfish on March 03, 2015, 11:07:34 PM
Quote from: Que on March 03, 2015, 03:05:50 PM
I am jealous!  ??? :) That has on my shopping list forever.... ::)
Just in case you don't already have, it a recommendation of a set with two of their other reocrdings:

[asin]B0019GKI9W[/asin]

Q

That looks really interesting Q! Thanks for posting it!! [the one click purchase button is an evil invention!]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 04, 2015, 02:42:41 AM
Quote from: Que on March 03, 2015, 09:38:31 PM
I wish the Huelgas Ensemble's Labyrinth box set was still available, that would have been my primary recommendation... ::)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0886974784425.jpg)

Q

You're right; I have this but don't think of it; for some reason thinking their recordings only as the individuals.  I did not know it was hard to find.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 04, 2015, 05:32:05 AM
Al-Hadiqat Al-Adai'a (El Jardí Perdut): Música I Poesia Andalusí a la València dels S. XII-XIII)

[asin]B004RCM4GU[/asin]

Music from Andalusian Spain sung in Arabic. (http://www.welove-music.org/2012/11/ensemble-akrami-al-hadiqat-al-adaia.html) (posted for the description not the download, which won't work anyway)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 04, 2015, 06:57:24 AM
Nice recording by the group Discantus, featuring Brigitte Lesne : Binchois, Argument of Beauty

[asin]B003ZWPAZA[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 04, 2015, 07:17:03 AM
Guillaume De Machaut : Sacred & Secular Music, by Ensemble Gilles Binchois - excellent boxset very reasonably priced.

[asin]B004QRUJJ0[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on March 04, 2015, 07:35:54 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 04, 2015, 07:17:03 AMGuillaume De Machaut : Sacred & Secular Music, by Ensemble Gilles Binchois - excellent boxset very reasonably priced.
I'll second that recommendation.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on March 04, 2015, 08:08:12 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 03, 2015, 06:01:09 PM
There are members who contribute to this thread who are more knowledgeable than I, but the most representative and reasonably priced introduction to early music I can think of is this box from Naxos:

[asin]B00HFDKT24[/asin]

While it mainly has movements from larger works it will expose you to a large selection composers and ensembles so that through it you can find ones you may wish to study in more depth.  Generally good performances.

Thank you for your help and recommendation; I will investigate that box set on the Naxos website.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on March 04, 2015, 08:13:23 AM
Quote from: Que on March 03, 2015, 09:38:31 PM
I wish the Huelgas Ensemble's Labyrinth box set was still available, that would have been my primary recommendation... ::)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0886974784425.jpg)

Q

I have just checked this one out on Amazon UK and it is availabel new; the price ranges from £279.99 to £349.99  :o
Some of you guys are sitting on a nice one there  ;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on March 04, 2015, 08:17:39 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 04, 2015, 07:17:03 AM
Guillaume De Machaut : Sacred & Secular Music, by Ensemble Gilles Binchois - excellent boxset very reasonably priced.

[asin]B004QRUJJ0[/asin]

That one looks interesting.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Moonfish on March 04, 2015, 08:20:07 AM
Quote from: aligreto on March 04, 2015, 08:17:39 AM
That one looks interesting.

+1
It is excellent!  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Moonfish on March 04, 2015, 08:51:15 AM
When L'oiseau Lyre/Decca released their Baroque compilation last year I remember reading that they were planning to make two additional sets: one focused on Early Music and one on the Renaissance. Does anybody know anything about the progress of these projects?

[asin] B00IRQS24A[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 04, 2015, 11:31:36 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on March 04, 2015, 08:51:15 AM
When L'oiseau Lyre/Decca released their Baroque compilation last year I remember reading that they were planning to make two additional sets: one focused on Early Music and one on the Renaissance. Does anybody know anything about the progress of these projects?

[asin] B00IRQS24A[/asin]

I would love to find it but I can't.  However, I forgot about this one, which I bought a long time ago (must have been in the '70s) and still enjoy:

The Art of Courtly Love
David Munrow | The Early Music Consort of London

[asin]B000002SSB[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on March 04, 2015, 11:40:00 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 04, 2015, 11:31:36 AM

The Art of Courtly Love
David Munrow | The Early Music Consort of London

[asin]B000002SSB[/asin]


I had great admiration for Munrow and have a few of his recordings; I may have that one on vinyl but not too sure.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on March 05, 2015, 12:09:51 PM
Do try these two works [Musical Entertainments] for a bit of musical fun, in particular the Festino nella sera del giovedi grasso avanti cena...


(http://rymimg.com/lk/f/l/5f34d6079be90f8c757aa1edd5b5ab21/4035691.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 08, 2015, 06:43:23 AM
Wert : Five Part Madrigals

[asin]B00015WMIW[/asin]

Excellent recording.

Giaches de Wert (also Jacques/Jaches de Wert, Giaches de Vuert; 1535 – 6 May 1596) was a Franco-Flemish composer of the late Renaissance, active in Italy. Intimately connected with the progressive musical center of Ferrara, he was one of the leaders in developing the style of the late Renaissance madrigal. He was one of the most influential of late sixteenth-century madrigal composers, particularly on Claudio Monteverdi, and his later music was formative on the development of music of the early Baroque era.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 09, 2015, 11:47:10 AM
Masters from Flanders: Polyphony from the 15th & 16th century a ten volume series featuring Capella Sancti Michaelis and Currende Consort (Erik van Nevel).  It appears to be available only in digital formatting, and on most streaming services (I found all ten volumes on Spotify).

Seems to be a very good survey of this period.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HzeTpYiuL._SS280.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Moonfish on March 09, 2015, 02:50:12 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 09, 2015, 11:47:10 AM
Masters from Flanders: Polyphony from the 15th & 16th century a ten volume series featuring Capella Sancti Michaelis and Currende Consort (Erik van Nevel).  It appears to be available only in digital formatting, and on most streaming services (I found all ten volumes on Spotify).

Seems to be a very good survey of this period.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HzeTpYiuL._SS280.jpg)

It seems like used copies exist in the MP. 

Contents:
CD I: Adriaan Willaert and Italy
Cypriano De Rore
Giaches De Wert
Giovanni De Macque

CD 2: Philippe Rogier And Spain
Georges De La Hèle
Gerard Van Turnhout
Pierre De Manchicourt
Mateo Romero

CD 3: Orlandus Lassus
Ivo De Vento
Johannes De Fossa
Balduin Hoyoul

CD 4: 16th Century Songs and Dances from Flanders
Tielman Susato
Anonymous
Jheronimus Venders
Pierre de la Rue
Clemens Non Papa
Pierre Phalèse
Nicolas Liégois
Heinrich Isaac
Cornelis Boscoop
Ludovicus Episcopius

CD 5: Philippus De Monte and the Habsburgers
Jacobus Vaet
Alexander Utendal
Jacob Regnart
Arnold Von Bruck
Carolus Luython
Lambert De Sayve

CD 6: Nicolaas Gombert and the Court of Charles V
Clemens Non Papa
Thomas Crequillon

CD 7: Isaac, Obrecht, de la Rue

CD 8: Josquin des Prez

CD 9: Johannes Ockeghem and France
Loyset Compère
Antonius Divitis
Johannes Prioris
Antoine De Févin

CD 10: Guillaume Dufay and Burgundy
Antoine Busnois
Gilles Binchois
Alexander Agricola
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on March 09, 2015, 04:52:18 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 09, 2015, 11:47:10 AM
Masters from Flanders: Polyphony from the 15th & 16th century a ten volume series featuring Capella Sancti Michaelis and Currende Consort (Erik van Nevel).  It appears to be available only in digital formatting, and on most streaming services (I found all ten volumes on Spotify).

Seems to be a very good survey of this period.
Looks amazing.  Thanks for posting it sanantonio.  Shout-out to Moonfish too, for listing the contents.   ;)

I'm now playing a new purchase:

Vox Cosmica
Hirundo Maris
[asin]B00O4DRAPW[/asin]

Stunningly beautiful recording of music composed by Hildegard of Bingen.  The group also performs several instrumental 'meditations' inspired by Hildegard's spiritual visions.  Powerful music!  A riveting performance - sounds like a true musical offering.

I'd say urgently recommended for those with an interest in  the music of Hildegard.   :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 09, 2015, 05:25:43 PM
Quote from: HIPster on March 09, 2015, 04:52:18 PM
I'm now playing a new purchase:

Vox Cosmica
Hirundo Maris
[asin]B00O4DRAPW[/asin]

Stunningly beautiful recording of music composed by Hildegard of Bingen.  The group also performs several instrumental 'meditations' inspired by Hildegard's spiritual visions.  Powerful music!  A riveting performance - sounds like a true musical offering.

I'd say urgently recommended for those with an interest in  the music of Hildegard.   :)

Looks really interesting.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 09, 2015, 05:56:04 PM
Phenomenal box set

Dowland - The Collected Works
The Consort of Musicke, Rooley

[asin]B000004CYV[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on March 09, 2015, 10:14:18 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 09, 2015, 05:56:04 PM
Phenomenal box set

Dowland - The Collected Works
The Consort of Musicke, Rooley

[asin]B000004CYV[/asin]
which will probably be included in a coming Renaissance box set from L'Oiseau-Lyre.....
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 10, 2015, 06:33:40 AM
Quote from: The new erato on March 09, 2015, 10:14:18 PM
which will probably be included in a coming Renaissance box set from L'Oiseau-Lyre.....

Which is a set of interest to me.  Any idea when it will be available?

I've found the Kassiopeia Quintet's complete Gesualdo madrigals recordings on Spotify:

[asin]B000244PZU[/asin]

Anyone else familiar with them? 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 10, 2015, 11:30:12 AM
How does this Huelgas recording ...

[asin]B00A2CL6SQ[/asin]

... compare with this one by Cinquecento?

[asin]B008B3P4FO[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 10, 2015, 11:59:53 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 01, 2015, 11:56:08 AM
I like this a lot - curious about other views

[asin]B000000R38[/asin]

Yes I think it's tremendous. I started a thread on amazon about Ars Subtilior which you might find interesting, I tried here but there were no contributions

http://www.amazon.com/forum/classical%20music/ref=cm_cd_search_res_ti?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx2O5YQ79OVJBUQ&cdPage=1&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=Tx3HCWWJYD19UN2#Mx17QK1DW0H29TO
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 10, 2015, 12:13:54 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 10, 2015, 11:59:53 AM
Yes I think it's tremendous. I started a thread on amazon about Ars Subtilior which you might find interesting, I tried here but there were no contributions

http://www.amazon.com/forum/classical%20music/ref=cm_cd_search_res_ti?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx2O5YQ79OVJBUQ&cdPage=1&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=Tx3HCWWJYD19UN2#Mx17QK1DW0H29TO

Interesting thread, thanks for linking it.  I found several of the suggested recordings on Spotify.  BTW, is your avatar Oswald van Wolkenstein?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 10, 2015, 12:30:13 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 10, 2015, 12:13:54 PM
Interesting thread, thanks for linking it.  I found several of the suggested recordings on Spotify.  BTW, is your avatar Oswald van Wolkenstein?

Yes. The big one which isn't on spotify is  'Saracen & the Dove' It's growing on me, you should try to hear it I think. Same for Tetraktis.

Yes I am Oswald van Wolkenstein. I like his wink more than his music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 10, 2015, 12:34:34 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 10, 2015, 12:30:13 PM
Yes. The big one which isn't on spotify is  'Saracen & the Dove' It's growing on me, you should try to hear it I think. Same for Tetraktis.

Yes I am Oswald van Wolkenstein. I like his wink more than his music.

Saracen & the Dove is on Spotify (https://play.spotify.com/album/0PwdTl838sZmGZg2LjLkBJ).



I agree regarding Oswald.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on March 10, 2015, 02:03:43 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 10, 2015, 11:30:12 AM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/36/Andrea_Mantegna_-_The_Dead_Christ.jpg)

Andrea Mantegna - one of my favorite artists from the period - The Lamentation over the Dead Christ (tempera on canvas) done in 1490 - such realism & perspective; located at the Pinacoteca di Brera, Milan (Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Mantegna)) - wife and I were on a trip to northern Italy in April 1996, mainly Milan & Bologna - saw the painting then.  Dave :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 10, 2015, 03:34:45 PM
It is tragic that the Project Ars Nova ensemble is no longer together or recording.  I consider their recordings to be some of the best for this period.  I've been listening to this one:

[asin]B000000R2J[/asin]

I am struck at how contemporary it sounds; almost jazz like in places.  This is incredibly vibrant music and music-making.

Very highly recommended!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on March 10, 2015, 04:58:15 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 10, 2015, 06:33:40 AM
I've found the Kassiopeia Quintet's complete Gesualdo madrigals recordings on Spotify:

[asin]B000244PZU[/asin]

Anyone else familiar with them?

I remember asking the same question few years ago, and someone replying that they are ok but bland compared to Concerto Italiano and La Venexiana.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 10, 2015, 10:39:54 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 10, 2015, 12:34:34 PM
Saracen & the Dove is on Spotify (https://play.spotify.com/album/0PwdTl838sZmGZg2LjLkBJ).



I agree regarding Oswald.

I listened to Saracen and Dove again. It's some of the strangest, most difficult, music I know. The Orlando Consort remind me of Ensemble Organum in their Chantilly Codex CD, in that they underplay the sensuality, and highlight the avant garde aspect.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 10, 2015, 10:56:17 PM
Quote from: Drasko on March 10, 2015, 04:58:15 PM
I remember asking the same question few years ago, and someone replying that they are ok but bland compared to Concerto Italiano and La Venexiana.

We indeed discussed this before, the performances seem to have had very little exposure.

I'll try to look it up. It's a Dutch ensemble BTW.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 10, 2015, 11:07:18 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 10, 2015, 11:30:12 AM
How does this Huelgas recording ...

[asin]B00A2CL6SQ[/asin]

... compare with this one by Cinquecento?

[asin]B008B3P4FO[/asin]

Most of us seem to have one or the other, and both parties seem to be very happy... 8) Though I believe the few that have both prefer the Cinquecento. I touched on the topic briefly before, mentioning some reviews:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21492.msg738941/topicseen.html#msg738941

It seems these are both excellent yet distinctly different performances?  :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 11, 2015, 01:42:13 AM
Quote from: Que on March 10, 2015, 11:07:18 PM
Most of us seem to have one or the other, and both parties seem to be very happy... 8) Though I believe the few that have both prefer the Cinquecento. I touched on the topic briefly before, mentioning some reviews:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21492.msg738941/topicseen.html#msg738941

It seems these are both excellent yet distinctly different performances?  :)

Q

Thanks.  The Huelgas is on Spotify, nothing by Cinquecento is, so I am probably going to purchase that or another of their recordings just to hear them.   I like what I've read.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 11, 2015, 01:54:08 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 10, 2015, 10:39:54 PM
I listened to Saracen and Dove again. It's some of the strangest, most difficult, music I know. The Orlando Consort remind me of Ensemble Organum in their Chantilly Codex CD, in that they underplay the sensuality, and highlight the avant garde aspect.

I went back to Reese and read about the trecento (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_the_Trecento), or Italian Ars Nova, a somewhat related style, e.g. Ciconia is included in the discussion.  There are several recordings of interest on Spotify featuring the composers from Italy from 1325-1425, which is how Reese dates this period.  The music primarily comes from the Squarcialupi Codex and Rossi Codex.

Stylems, Music from the Italian Trecento (https://play.spotify.com/album/6MBieZ3u5sK2f2cXEEsE5O) (Spotify link)

[asin]B001D0RS74[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 11, 2015, 08:20:47 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 11, 2015, 01:54:08 AM
I went back to Reese and read about the trecento (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_the_Trecento), or Italian Ars Nova, a somewhat related style, e.g. Ciconia is included in the discussion.  There are several recordings of interest on Spotify featuring the composers from Italy from 1325-1425, which is how Reese dates this period.  The music primarily comes from the Squarcialupi Codex and Rossi Codex.

Stylems, Music from the Italian Trecento (https://play.spotify.com/album/6MBieZ3u5sK2f2cXEEsE5O) (Spotify link)

[asin]B001D0RS74[/asin]

I'm convinced that appreciating Ars Subtilior can demmand a new order of listening skills, and this is why Orlando Consort and others can be so disorienting. Others force the music into a more conventional pattern of harmony, rhythm, voicing, tones, etc. I do feel that the austere approach is rewarding, but requires more effort than the relaxing, easy listening style of ensembles like Tetrakis, or Hesperion 20. IMO the Codex Chantilly is Brian Ferneyhough avant la lettre.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 11, 2015, 08:41:51 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 11, 2015, 08:20:47 AM
I'm convinced that appreciating Ars Subtilior can demmand a new order of listening skills, and this is why Orlando Consort and others can be so disorienting. Others force the music into a more conventional pattern of harmony, rhythm, voicing, tones, etc. I do feel that the austere approach is rewarding, but requires more effort than the relaxing, easy listening style of ensembles like Tetrakis, or Hesperion 20. IMO the Codex Chantilly is Brian Ferneyhough avant la lettre.

Richard Taruskin has a lengthier section regarding this style in his book on this period and points out that the term "Ars Subtilior" is of rather recent vintage, ~ 1960s.  The main stylistic trait appears to have been rhythmic (even polymetric) experimentation by composers such as Philippus de Caserta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippus_de_Caserta).

Two collections (that may not be new to you) which contain some of this music are

[asin]B00SBVHEY0[/asin]   
Or on Spotify (https://play.spotify.com/album/5beNxR4ovxBZVYUO9mBE8N)

[asin]B00H9KERSA[/asin]   
Or on Spotify (https://play.spotify.com/album/5ry8MCJbxL4mEP0UA7kLVy)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 11, 2015, 10:25:39 AM
Joie Fine: Medieval Pious Trouvere Songs

[asin]B000FNO1CU[/asin]
SPOTIFY (https://play.spotify.com/track/4rnMebI7C4Fav6cep66ASS)

Some info posted by an Amazon reviewer:  "Tracks 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11 & 15 are by anonymous composers, all either in Occitan (Old Provencal) or Old French.  Track 3 is by Aubertin d'Airaines. Tracks 4 & 9 by Thibaut De Champagne. 12 by Jaque de Cambrai. 13 by Adam de la Halle. 14 by Guillaume de Bethune."
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on March 11, 2015, 10:33:48 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 10, 2015, 11:59:53 AM
Yes I think it's tremendous. I started a thread on amazon about Ars Subtilior which you might find interesting, I tried here but there were no contributions

I began listening to the Ars Subtilior CDs I own, but then you led my interests in other directions. At the moment I listen to Frescobaldi Canzoni, trying to produce some sensible recommendations.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 11, 2015, 04:47:36 PM
New York Polyphony - Times Go By Turns

[asin]B00D9DSXYU[/asin]

Masses by Byrd, Plummer and Tallis with movements by living composers interpolated.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71-p5aqkTVL._SL500_.jpg)

"You may not think the world yearns for another Byrd 4-part Mass recording - that is, until you hear these four male voices sing it. Sure, you've heard the Tallis Scholars' reference version, but have you ever heard it performed by just four voices, ideally matched, of uniquely compatible timbre, combined into such a richly resonant sound? ... The sound on this SACD recording, from a Swedish church, is consistent with BIS's usual high standard. Recommended with the assurance that you will listen to this disc often.: --ClassicsToday.com, David Vernier, September 2013
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 12, 2015, 10:50:08 AM
Is it strange that the Officium Defunctorum was not included in this otherwise excellent box set of Victoria's Sacred music?

[asin]B0050F6JQE[/asin]

Instead the earlier 4-part Requiem written in 1593 is included.



Here's a recording done by a group specializing in Spanish Renaissance, Musica Ficta (not to be confused with other ensembles using the same name), led by Raúl Mallavibarrena:

[asin]B000076H1F[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 12, 2015, 11:00:49 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 12, 2015, 10:50:08 AM
Here's a recording done by a group specializing in Spanish Renaissance, Musica Ficta (not to be confused with other ensembles using the same name), led by Raúl Mallavibarrena:

[asin]B000076H1F[/asin]

I happened to have ordered that a while ago and just found it in my letter box!  :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 12, 2015, 11:05:16 AM
Quote from: Que on March 12, 2015, 11:00:49 AM
I happened to have ordered that a while ago and just found it in my letter box!  :)

Q

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.  I am listening on Spotify.  Aside from the reverberant acoustic, I am enjoying it.  Although it would not be how Victoria would have done it, I would love to hear a OVPP version.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on March 15, 2015, 03:14:16 PM
Gesualdo: Complete Sacred Music for Five Voices....


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51JKb0nSl7L.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 16, 2015, 07:27:15 AM
I've been listening to this group this morning:

Trefoil is a trio long active in early music, with experience in such ensembles as Concert Royal, Les Arts Florissants, New York's Ensemble for Early Music, Pomerium, Clarion Music society, Piffaro, My Lord Chamberlain's Consort, and other groups. The trio debuted in New York and Philadelphia early in 2000 with a program of 14th-century French ars subtilior song. The Philadelphia Inquirer tagged the performers as "a hearty trio of medieval music specialists" and their work as "an intricate, enigmatic vocal art."

Their latest CD,  Fleur de Valeur: A Medieval Bouquet, features music by Guillaume Dufay, Gilles Binchois, and others. "Medieval songwriters invoked the imagery and natural magic of flowers in the service of ideal, feminine beauty. In many poems, the most revered flower was the Rose, or fleur de valeur. As a symbol of Mary the Virgin this flower stood for virtue, but also for the more sensual desires of the flesh, where it became an object of masculine desire."  (from concert notes)

[asin]B00GPL0JXG[/asin]

Anyone else familiar with them?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 16, 2015, 12:05:46 PM
New ensemble for me, but a good one.  Listening now.

[asin]B00187AG9E[/asin]

Le Codex de Saint Emmeram
Stimmwerck

Some info provided by Giordano Bruno from his review on Amazon:

It's the vocal artistry of Stimmwerck, however, that deserves the highest praise. Stimmwerck consists of four young Germans -- countertenor Franz Vitzthum, tenors Klaus Wenk and Gerhard Hölzle, and bass Marcus Schmidt, plus guests on some compositions -- all devoted to the performance of the repertoire of Middle Europe in the medieval and early renaissance period. Their goal is extreme authenticity and their musicological scholarship is impressive, but it's their magnificent SINGING that matters most. This is music that must be sung one-on-a-part to be heard at its most expressive. The strictures of tuning such music to the Pythagorian and later 'mean tone' intervals of the period must be mastered. The rhetorical freedom of Dufay's and Dunstable's polyphony, with each vocal line emerging independently, must be understood. Stimmwerck is not just a first-rate vocal ensemble; it's specifically a first-rate 15th C vocal ensemble, as authentic as our current historical knowledge can render. Founded in 2001, Stimmwerck has released five or six CDs, including a very fine performance of the music of Ludwig Senfl. Some of those CDs have already become rare; my advice is to grab them while you can. The market for such music is fragile. Nevertheless, several extraordinary ensembles have matured in recent years: Cinquecento, Camerata Trajectina, Capilla Flamenca, The Sound and the Fury, to name some of the best, most of them German or Dutch. The good news is that the 'venerated' Orlando Consort is no longer all alone in the field.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 16, 2015, 12:18:04 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 16, 2015, 12:05:46 PM
New ensemble for me, but a good one.  Listening now.

[asin]B00187AG9E[/asin]

Le Codex de Saint Emmeram
Stimmwerck

Great ensemble,  great disc! :)

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21492.msg820674/topicseen.html#msg820674

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg568496/topicseen.html#msg568496

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg579916/topicseen.html#msg579916

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 16, 2015, 12:31:18 PM
Quote from: Que on March 16, 2015, 12:18:04 PM
Great ensemble,  great disc! :)

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21492.msg820674/topicseen.html#msg820674

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg568496/topicseen.html#msg568496

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg579916/topicseen.html#msg579916

Q

Thanks for the info on other recordings, and for the link to their website.  I knew I was on to something but also figured that it was old news for this thread.

:)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 17, 2015, 06:50:00 AM
"Monteverdi's madrigals are a theatre of the senses: touches, glances, scents, the textures of fabrics, of lips and skin, the shining gold of hair, the deep blue of eyes, the sounds and vistas of nature, the coolness of water, the sun's warmth, the ecstatic agony of fire and ice. The second volume in I Fagiolini's Monteverdi conspectus traces this evolution from the early Mantuan a cappella madrigals that made his reputation to the late concerted madrigals of the 1630s written for the Viennese court – styles seemingly worlds apart, yet both forged by the same desire, to confront and master afresh in each new work the ever-present tension between mere art and real life."

(http://www.ifagiolini.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/chan-0749-sm.jpg)

QuoteAt regular intervals (30:6; 32:1), Robert Hollingworth offers a well-filled disc programming a selection of Monteverdi's madrigals. His intellectual approach is rewarding beyond the usual presentation of complete published books, for he finds relations between the pieces that can only be brought out by astute selection. No one has ever linked the two settings of Zefiro torna on record, the one a Petrarch poem that Monteverdi included in Book 5, the other poem Rinuccini's homage to his renowned predecessor that was published in Monteverdi's setting in 1632. Except for this juxtaposition, these madrigals from Books 5 to 8 are sung in chronological order, but only after Hollingworth decided that this made better sense than his original conception. This places at the end a half-hour work that was published in 1638, although it was first performed (at the Gonzaga/Savoy wedding) 20 years earlier. Here Hollingworth chooses to edit the published version of Ballo delle ingrate to match the unrevised text that Rinuccini originally published (its references to the Mantua wedding were obliterated for a publication dedicated to the emperor). Hollingworth also points out that most performances of some of these madrigals fill in the continuo with harmonies matching the vocal lines. Hollingworth compares this to a woman in a print dress standing in a flower garden. Instead, he employs a chordal harmony that howls against the dissonant upper voices. This gives his interpretations a unique appeal, a worthy alternative to other versions.

Clearly, Hollingworth's programs are complementary to any collection of recorded complete books, whether the various ensembles that have recorded them are mixed or matched. His usual ensemble is augmented by a Norwegian string quintet. To be sure, this is an English approach to Monteverdi, in contrast to a group such as La Venexiana, but we have been making this comparison for many years now (recall the Consort of Musicke), and we can hear complementary qualities. Hollingworth brings a unique perspective to Monteverdi. -- Fanfare, J. F. Weber, Nov/Dec 2009

Listening now; haven't an opinion yet.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 17, 2015, 03:45:26 PM
All five of my recent Cinquecento purchases came in and I'm listening to them.  So far I've heard all of the Regnart, most of the Richafort and just started listening to the Willaert.  One thing I know for sure is that Cinquecento is the best ensemble for this period I have heard recently. 

There's at least one more I intend to purchase soon:

[asin]B0016J9P5A[/asin]

When I returned to Early Music, after not listening intently for over a decade or more, I naturally went back to the groups I had known from the past, Hilliard, Tallis, and others.  But now that I have been exposed to some of the groups like Sound/Fury, Blue Heron, Cinquecento, Stimmwerck, A Sei Voci, Orlando Consort (I feel like I'm forgetting some), I am now totally convinced of the superiority of their approach.

It has been a fascinating (short) journey so far and one I will continue with excitement.

:)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Moonfish on March 17, 2015, 10:07:24 PM
Thoroughly enjoyed de Mauchaut's Ballades this evening in the able hands(/voices) of Ensemble Musica Nova.  These performances are serene in every aspect combining instruments and voices into mesmerizing patterns that permeate the mind. Great stuff! Giordano Bruno (http://www.amazon.com/review/R1E9AHC4390WDW/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B002P9KAE0&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=5174&store=music) seemingly liked it quite a bit.. ;)
I am now considering their recording of Ockeghem's Missa Prolationum (http://www.amazon.com/Ockeghem-Prolationum-Ensemble-Musica-Nova/dp/B0093N4DXU)

[asin] B002P9KAE0[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: EigenUser on March 18, 2015, 12:17:21 AM
Quote from: Moonfish on March 17, 2015, 10:07:24 PM
I am now considering their recording of Ockeghem's Missa Prolationum (http://www.amazon.com/Ockeghem-Prolationum-Ensemble-Musica-Nova/dp/B0093N4DXU)
Their recording of the Ockeghem is my favorite version. I've heard a few others, but none as good as that.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on March 18, 2015, 12:20:48 AM
Quote from: EigenUser on March 18, 2015, 12:17:21 AM
Their recording of the Ockeghem is my favorite version. I've heard a few others, but none as good as that.
Not that there is much competition from the current generation ensembles.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 18, 2015, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on March 17, 2015, 10:07:24 PM
Thoroughly enjoyed de Mauchaut's Ballades this evening in the able hands(/voices) of Ensemble Musica Nova.  These performances are serene in every aspect combining instruments and voices into mesmerizing patterns that permeate the mind. Great stuff! Giordano Bruno (http://www.amazon.com/review/R1E9AHC4390WDW/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B002P9KAE0&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=5174&store=music) seemingly liked it quite a bit.. ;)
I am now considering their recording of Ockeghem's Missa Prolationum (http://www.amazon.com/Ockeghem-Prolationum-Ensemble-Musica-Nova/dp/B0093N4DXU)

[asin] B002P9KAE0[/asin]

Ensemble Musica Nova is definitely on my shortlist as well. :)

Another great Machaut issue is their recording of the Motets:

[asin]B004V4GXY8[/asin]

Mind that this is a reissue of the same recordings issued on Zig Zag:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61CsxeRA67L.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Moonfish on March 18, 2015, 03:18:19 PM
Quote from: EigenUser on March 18, 2015, 12:17:21 AM
Their recording of the Ockeghem is my favorite version. I've heard a few others, but none as good as that.

Tempting.....   ;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 18, 2015, 04:02:35 PM
Unless there some missing information that I am unaware, the group Amacord is an odd one.  They have recorded at least one exquisite CD of Gregorian masses from c. 1300:

[asin]B008ULQZY6[/asin]

But their recorded catalog also contains some dreadful crossover recordings.  Seems odd.  Nevertheless, this one is very good.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 18, 2015, 10:13:24 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 17, 2015, 03:45:26 PM
When I returned to Early Music, after not listening intently for over a decade or more, I naturally went back to the groups I had known from the past, Hilliard, Tallis, and others.  But now that I have been exposed to some of the groups like Sound/Fury, Blue Heron, Cinquecento, Stimmwerck, A Sei Voci, Orlando Consort (I feel like I'm forgetting some), I am now totally convinced of the superiority of their approach.

It has been a fascinating (short) journey so far and one I will continue with excitement.

:)

Great! :) 

I would like to add to that shortlist in any case (there are some more): Ensemble Musica Nova (Aeon), Diabolus in Musica (Alpha), Singer Pur (Oehms), Dufay Ensemble (Freiburg) (Ars Musici), Orlando di Lasso Ensemble (Hannover) (Thorofon), Labyrintho (Stradivarius), Ludus Modalis (Ramée), Concerto Vocale Amsterdam (Glossa, CPO)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 19, 2015, 02:05:47 AM
Quote from: Que on March 18, 2015, 10:13:24 PM
Great! :) 

I would like to add to that shortlist in any case (there are some more): Ensemble Musica Nova (Aeon), Diabolus in Musica (Alpha), Singer Pur (Oehms), Dufay Ensemble (Freiburg) (Ars Musici), Orlando di Lasso Ensemble (Hannover) (Thorofon), Labyrintho (Stradivarius), Ludus Modalis (Ramée), Concerto Vocale Amsterdam (Glossa, CPO)

Q

Thanks for the suggestions.  However, as my listening experience deepens, I am sure to refine my favorites to all-male, OVPP groups.  I've already lost one group from my list, A Sei Voci who ceased activity in 2011, which is unfortunate.  And I still enjoy The Hilliard Ensemble.

;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 19, 2015, 06:53:06 AM
For anyone wishing to get a taste of Stimmwerk, here's YouTube clip:

https://www.youtube.com/v/IWgUATjdw_w
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on March 19, 2015, 12:02:09 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 19, 2015, 06:53:06 AM
For anyone wishing to get a taste of Stimmwerk, here's YouTube clip:

https://www.youtube.com/v/IWgUATjdw_w

Delightful sound with wonderful clarity of lines.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 22, 2015, 01:56:35 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 19, 2015, 02:05:47 AM
Thanks for the suggestions.  However, as my listening experience deepens, I am sure to refine my favorites to all-male, OVPP groups.  I've already lost one group from my list, A Sei Voci who ceased activity in 2011, which is unfortunate.  And I still enjoy The Hilliard Ensemble.

;)

Uuhhmmm, I have to admit that I didn't see that one coming... ???
Is that because you think that is historically correct or just a personal preference?
You would be denying yourself so much wonderful stuff!  :)

BTW a reissue of a Gesualdo recording by Sei Voci (love their recordings of the Desprez masses, despite the participation of women ;)) has just come out:

[asin]B00PFAX6V0[/asin]

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 22, 2015, 02:01:33 AM
This new issue should be fun:

[asin]B00TJFHPYQ[/asin]

QuoteRICERCAR now celebrates its 35th anniversary with a homage to the greatest Flemish composer of the Renaissance. The works of Cipriano de Rore (1515/16 1565) remained extremely popular until well after his death.Several of his madrigals later appeared in dozens of ornamented versions and continued to do so until the beginning of the 17th century; this was an extraordinary success for the time.Ricercar's leading ensembles of singers and instrumentalists have each made their own original contribution to this recording, providing a complete overview of de Rore's sacred and secular works. The madrigal Ancor che col partire binds the entire recording together, firstly through the original setting with its erotically charged text and secondly through many instrumental versions that were soon made from it.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 22, 2015, 04:16:14 AM
Quote from: Que on March 22, 2015, 01:56:35 AM
Uuhhmmm, I have to admit that I didn't see that one coming... ???
Is that because you think that is historically correct or just a personal preference?
You would be denying yourself so much wonderful stuff!  :)

Mostly a personal preference.  Seems the female voices have a tendancy to become too bright and the overall blend is top heavy.  But I am not doctrinaire, and will certainly listen to music made by mixed ensembles as long as the voices are not dominanted by the high voices. 

Quote from: Que on March 22, 2015, 01:56:35 AM
BTW a reissue of a Gesualdo recording by Sei Voci (love their recordings of the Desprez masses, despite the participation of women ;)) has just come out:

[asin]B00PFAX6V0[/asin]

Q

Thanks, will look for it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 22, 2015, 04:17:00 AM
Quote from: Que on March 22, 2015, 02:01:33 AM
This new issue should be fun:

[asin]B00TJFHPYQ[/asin]

Q

Listening on Spotify. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 22, 2015, 09:20:22 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 19, 2015, 02:05:47 AM
Thanks for the suggestions.  However, as my listening experience deepens, I am sure to refine my favorites to all-male, OVPP groups.  I've already lost one group from my list, A Sei Voci who ceased activity in 2011, which is unfortunate.  And I still enjoy The Hilliard Ensemble.

;)

Have you explored Ensemble Organum yet?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 22, 2015, 10:01:37 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 22, 2015, 09:20:22 AM
Have you explored Ensemble Organum yet?

Yes; I like them quite a bit but their choice in repertory is rather limited.  A couple of groups I'm focusing on currently are The Suspicious Cheese Lords (http://suspiciouscheeselords.com/) (a pun on the phrase Suscipe Quæso Domine), a male ensemble based in Washington, DC.  They are not OVPP but 2VPP is okay as well.   Also the Cappella Pratensis (http://www.cappellapratensis.nl/en/) who specializes in the music of Josquin Desprez and other polyphonists from the 15th and 16th centuries.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 22, 2015, 10:15:03 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 22, 2015, 10:01:37 AM
Yes; I like them quite a bit but their choice in repertory is rather limited.  A couple of groups I'm focusing on currently are The Suspicious Cheese Lords (http://suspiciouscheeselords.com/) (a pun on the phrase Suscipe Quæso Domine), a male ensemble based in Washington, DC.  They are not OVPP but 2VPP is okay as well.   Also the Cappella Pratensis (http://www.cappellapratensis.nl/en/) who specializes in the music of Josquin Desprez and other polyphonists from the 15th and 16th centuries.

And of course there is that Orlando Consort Ars subtilior CD which is where I came in a couple of weeks ago. It really does grow on me with repeated listening. I checked out their recording of Le voir dit a few weeks ago, though ended up preferring Oxford Camerata because of what I felt was more sensitivity to the words in the big lay. I could be wrong about that.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Artem on March 22, 2015, 04:24:15 PM
What do you think about recordings with children's choir?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 24, 2015, 03:15:05 PM
Cross posted from the New Releases thread - Mouton: 1515 - Sacred Works

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71Bgcu3pxlL._SX355_.jpg)

May
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 24, 2015, 04:23:29 PM
A discovery for me, Loyset Compère (c. 1445 – 16 August 1518) was a Franco-Flemish composer of the Renaissance. Of the same generation as Josquin des Prez, he was one of the most significant composers of motets and chansons of that era, and one of the first musicians to bring the light Italianate Renaissance style to France.

Wonderful recording from Orlando Consort

[asin]B000024G5Y[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 24, 2015, 04:52:35 PM
Clemens Deus Artifex : Office Polyphoniq
La Main Harmonique - Frédéric Bétous

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41D-trdgMoL._SS280.jpg)

La Main Harmonique is a French group specializing in lesser known composers from the late 15th and 16th centuries.  Their first recording featured Ockeghem and Compere.  The personnel appears to be include men and one woman, similar to Singer Pur, and also some members are instrumentalists.  They are also active in performing newly composed music.

Here's some info from their website:

Frédéric Bétous and the musicians and singers of La Main Harmonique were driven together and have been working since then around a common idea: to share and revive the delicate and clever beauty of Renaissance music whilst opening new ways towards it in today's listening habits. In order to reach this ideal, La Main Harmonique stand firmly in present times by regularly commissioning and performing new compositions with period instruments together with pieces from the Early music repertoire – thus earning international acclaim for the quality of their programmes and the excellence of their interpretations (Diapason, Classica etc).

The ensemble's name refers to the « guidonian hand », a medieval mnemonic device to assist singers in learning to sight-sing. This dates back to Brother Guido d'Arezzo, the 11th-century music theorist who designed it: each portion of the hand represents a specific note within the hexachord system. In teaching, an instructor would indicate a series of notes by pointing to them with their right index on their left hand, and the students would sing them. The guidonian hand was still in use during Renaissance times for teaching solmisation (sung solfège).

Frédéric Bétous has been in demand for years as a countertenor and performed with a number of prestigious ensemble such as Les Éléments, Ensemble Jacques Moderne (Joël Suhubiette), Le Concert Spirituel (Hervé Niquet), Solistes XXI (Rachid Saphir), Diabolus in Musica (Anthoine Guerber), Huelgas Ensemble (Paul Van Nevel), etc.

To him La Main Harmonique is the key to his passion for polyphony and the rediscovery of European Renaissance masterpieces. In the summer of 2011 he launched "Musique en chemin", a festival whose venues are spread along the Saint James' Way (Chemin de Compostelle) in the Gers department in the southwest of France.


The recording pictured above is on Spotify and I am listening, and can tell that this is a group i will follow.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 25, 2015, 12:07:31 AM
Sanantonio, I think you have uncovered (at least for me) some very interesting recordings and groups, many thanks for that! :)
I for one was not aware of the fact that Diabolus in Musica also recorded for another label, Bayard Musique.
And the ensembles La Main Harmonique, Ensemble Cantilena Antiqua, Tenebrae Consort and the Suspicious Cheese Lords are all new to me.

Here are some recently posted items quoted for our convenience:

Quote from: sanantonio on March 22, 2015, 11:00:09 AM
Vivat Rex! Sacred Choral Music of Jean Mouton is the Cheese Lords (http://suspiciouscheeselords.com/about/)' third CD and their third world premiere recording. It was produced by Tina Chancey of Hesperus.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61O1KEjb%2BOL._SY455_.jpg)

Jean Mouton (c. 1459 – October 30, 1522) was a French composer of the Renaissance. He was famous both for his motets, which are among the most refined of the time, and for being the teacher of Adrian Willaert, one of the founders of the Venetian School. Mouton was hugely influential both as a composer and as a teacher. Of his music, 9 Magnificat settings, 15 masses, 20 chansons, and over 100 motets survive; since he was a court composer for a king, the survival rate of his music is relatively high for the period, it being widely distributed, copied, and archived. In addition, the famous publisher Ottaviano Petrucci printed an entire volume of Mouton's masses (early in the history of music printing, most publications contained works by multiple composers).

Quote from: sanantonio on March 22, 2015, 03:05:00 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51dm5HibWHL._SS480.jpg)

Ensemble Clement Janequin, an excellent French group specializing in music from the Renaissance.  This recording is of motets by Claudin de Sermisy (c. 1490 – 13 October 1562) a French composer of the Renaissance.  Along with Clément Janequin he was one of the most renowned composers of French chansons in the early 16th century; in addition he was a significant composer of sacred music. His music was both influential on, and influenced by, contemporary Italian styles.

Quote from: sanantonio on March 23, 2015, 02:09:55 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/613P2rt6tWL._SX455_.jpg)

Diabolus in Musica (founded Paris, 1992) is a French medieval music ensemble directed by Antoine Guerber

This recording was released in October 2014 and contains French music from the 12th century; most are by "anonymous" with one work apiece attributed to Léonin and Pérotin.  The individual pieces celebrate different saints.  If you generally enjoy music from this period (as I do), this is a very good recording by a male group, OVPP, with occasional instrumental accompaniment on medieval harp.

Quote from: sanantonio on March 24, 2015, 07:15:12 AM
Palol: Joys Amors Et Chants

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61dEt8Apw6L._SX425_.jpg)

For those who enjoy Medieval music, troubadours and troveres, especially, this is a fascinating recording.

From the notes,
Berenguer de Palol was born in Catalonia, the land of the Count of Rossillon. We know very
little about his life; the only date regarding his life that can be established with certainty is 1164,
the year in which his patron Jaufre III died. Berenguer s artistic activity has reached us through
a series of passionate compositions of rare musical and poetic beauty. His poetry shows an
evident research of the supreme love, or joy; a way paved with suffering for love joined to the
cult of feminine beauty. The main subject is woman, seen partly as an abstract goal in the
search of love, and partly real.


Quote from: sanantonio on March 24, 2015, 02:05:16 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511-8%2BcFrpL._SS380.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 25, 2015, 01:25:38 AM
I am glad there's some things there that you will find interesting, Que.  I very much enjoy the journey when discovering new ensembles or composers from this period.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 25, 2015, 11:43:39 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 24, 2015, 03:15:05 PM
Cross posted from the New Releases thread - Mouton: 1515 - Sacred Works

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71Bgcu3pxlL._SX355_.jpg)

May

I just browsed trough the Bayard Musique catalogue and there are some nice recordings by Diabolus in Musica to consider: http://www.adf-bayardmusique.com/artiste1871-ensemble-diabolus-in-musica

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 27, 2015, 12:40:34 PM
Musique au Palais des Papes - XIVe siècle
Ensemble Venance Fortunat

[asin]B000055ZSC[/asin]

I think all of this music comes from the Ivrea Codex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivrea_Codex), a parchment manuscript containing a significant body of 14th century French polyphonic music. 

Ensemble Venance Fortunat is a French group new to me, but I am impressed and will try to find more from them.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Moonfish on March 28, 2015, 01:26:38 PM
Balades a III chans de Johan Robert "Trebor", Baude Cordier, Matteo da Perugia, Antonio da Cividale, Magister Grimace, & al.
Ferrara Ensemble/Crawford Young

Just listened to the Ferrara Ensemble from the set below. I picked it up after San Antonio recommended it on this list. Thank you SA! Excellent recording! Full of harmony and allure that makes me want to dig deeper into early music. I am certainly looking forward to the other recordings in this box. Seemingly the originals are OOP so I am pleased that Arcana decided to reissue them.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ZHmX10CvL.jpg)

from
[asin] B00SBVHEY0[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 28, 2015, 05:15:36 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on March 28, 2015, 01:26:38 PM
Balades a III chans de Johan Robert "Trebor", Baude Cordier, Matteo da Perugia, Antonio da Cividale, Magister Grimace, & al.
Ferrara Ensemble/Crawford Young

Just listened to the Ferrara Ensemble from the set below. I picked it up after San Antonio recommended it on this list. Thank you SA! Excellent recording! Full of harmony and allure that makes me want to dig deeper into early music. I am certainly looking forward to the other recordings in this box. Seemingly the originals are OOP so I am pleased that Arcana decided to reissue them.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ZHmX10CvL.jpg)

from
[asin] B00SBVHEY0[/asin]

I am glad you enjoyed it.  That group of recordings is very fine, IMO.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 29, 2015, 03:08:19 AM
Graindelavoix (http://www.glossamusic.com/glossa/artist.aspx?id=26) is much less an early music ensemble and much more an art collective experimenting between the fields of performance and creation, comprising singers and instrumentalists led by Björn Schmelzer. Taking its name from an essay by Roland Barthes ("le grain, c'est le corps dans la voix qui chante, dans la main qui écrit, dans le membre qui exécute..."), where Barthes was looking for what constitutes the gritty essence of a voice, Graindelavoix experiments with what one does with the "grain", the physical and spiritual reflection of the voice.

Formed in 1999 by Schmelzer and based in Antwerp in Belgium, the collective works with material as diverse as Ockeghem's polyphony, the plainte, machicotage, Mediterranean practices, late scholastic dynamics and kinematics, the affective body, gesture and image culture... What is preoccupying Graindelavoix in early music is the bond between notation and what eludes it: the higher consciousness and savoir-faire that the performer brings to a piece (ornamentation, improvisation, gestures...). Schmelzer works with singers and instrumentalists who embrace diversity, heterogeneity, ornamentation and improvisation in their music-making. In many ways, an ethno-musicological approach to early music.

[asin]B000N39ICA[/asin]

Very fine.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on March 29, 2015, 03:55:33 AM
Willaert: Missa Christus resurgens....


(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/013/MI0001013671.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Artem on March 29, 2015, 06:44:45 PM
I'm fairly new to this area of music, but one of the composers that caught my attention is Nicolas Gombert. I enjoy this specific CD:

[asin]B004NWHVOY[/asin]

Does anyone have a favorite Gombert CD?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 31, 2015, 12:22:10 AM
Formed in March 2009 from some of Melbourne's finest choral soloists, The Old Cathedral Voices is based at St James' Old Cathedral - Melbourne's oldest church - and specializes in one-voice-per-part performance of English Church music from the renaissance to the present day. 

They must be an amateur group since I cannot find much beyond their CD Baby page, but this recording is nice.

(http://images.cdbaby.name/o/l/oldcathedralvoices.jpg)

In sampling several recordings of Byrd masses on Spotify, finding OVPP recordings is not easy.  Of course I would prefer a male group, but with the dearth of choices, this will do.

:)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 31, 2015, 11:32:59 AM
Two fantastic recordings by Pierre Hamon, Marc Mauillon, and others performing music of Guillaume de Machaut.

Remede de Fortune Import

[asin]B0027YUKKC[/asin]

Mon chant vous envoy

[asin]B00D8DVFF0[/asin]

On Mon Chant Vous Envoy, the team formed in 2005 by Pierre Hamon around the exceptional baritone Marc Mauillon continues to explore the work of the great French musician-poet of the 14th century, Guillaume de Machaut. The album's collection of songs, virelais, ballads and roundels of Guillaume de Machaut exemplify the composer's understanding of the poetic art of courtly love, whose melodies are part of our memory and our psyche. Mauillon is an exceptional talent even in the current environment of medieval music and these melodies 700 years on still maintain an impact. Marc Mauillon is accompanied by his sister Angelique Mauillon on harp, violinist VivaBiancaLuna Biffi, and group leader Pierre Hamon on flute.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Moonfish on April 01, 2015, 12:23:18 PM
Gyri Gyri Gaga - German Renaissance Songs of Lust & Life              Stimmwerck (http://www.stimmwerck.de/index.php)

Led here by San Antonio's "ravings"!  ;)    A new ensemble for me and, indeed, a very pleasant experience. This is an anthology of music with quite varied pieces from the realm of the German Renaissance. Worthwhile! Plenty of music at 74 min and the disc also includes a quicktime video of the making of the recording (also on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HJ_YqBcNy0) - see below).

The ensemble seems very vibrant in their music making. Some of the pieces are less appealing to me, but the overall experience was very positive.  If you are interested the disk is available at Daedelus Books & Music (http://www.daedalusbooks.com/Products/Detail.asp?ProductID=111941&Media=Music) for a song. They also have a large number of early music recordings at affordable prices. Worth checking out if you are a frequent visitor of this thread!  :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AKDqjtlnL.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51v0hAngvlL.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/v/6HJ_YqBcNy0
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 01, 2015, 12:28:04 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on April 01, 2015, 12:23:18 PM
Gyri Gyri Gaga - German Renaissance Songs of Lust & Life              Stimmwerck (http://www.stimmwerck.de/index.php)

Led here by San Antonio's "ravings"!  ;)    A new ensemble for me and, indeed, a very pleasant experience. This is an anthology of music with quite varied pieces from the realm of the German Renaissance. Worthwhile! Plenty of music at 74 min and the disc also includes a quicktime video of the making of the recording (also on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HJ_YqBcNy0) - see below).

The ensemble seems very vibrant in their music making. Some of the pieces are less appealing to me, but the overall experience was very positive.  If you are interested the disk is available at Daedelus Books & Music (http://www.daedalusbooks.com/Products/Detail.asp?ProductID=111941&Media=Music) for a song. They also have a large number of early music recordings at affordable prices. Worth checking out if you are a frequent visitor of this thread!  :)

Excellent.  I haven't heard this recording, but their Pamenter disc is one of the best I have.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on April 01, 2015, 12:36:00 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on April 01, 2015, 12:23:18 PM
Gyri Gyri Gaga - German Renaissance Songs of Lust & Life              Stimmwerck (http://www.stimmwerck.de/index.php)


Haven´t heard this one, but it looks delicious. Wishlisted.

In the same vein this disc is a must:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0000/980/MI0000980025.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

Allmusic review by James Leonard -

What is music coming to? With a song called "I'm Called Mister Erection," lyrics including the deathless line "it's a piece of dog sh*t," melodies so primitive that they're infantile, and harmonies so primitive that they barely exist, it's hard to imagine ever calling this stuff music. But not only was this stuff written by Orlande de Lassus, one of the greatest of the late-Renaissance composers, he even saw fit to publish most of it. Apparently, despite his transcendent motets and his exquisite madrigals, Lassus had a sense of humor and all listeners can do is to take it or leave it. But if they decide to take it, they have to take it with a grain of salt and a sense of humor.

Rinaldo Alessandrini and the Concerto Italiano clearly decided to take it with a great sense of humor because this is one of the funniest discs of so-called serious music ever released. That this is the same rarified vocal ensemble that has released so many emotionally nuanced recordings of Monteverdi's madrigals is hard to believe, but clearly the singers are enjoying their work and their enjoyment is infectious. Although the singers still sing with wonderful expressivity and tremendous flexibility, the Concerto Italiano is not shy about making the sound of its voices match the crude, rude, and lewd music. The result is a terrific disc, but certainly not for listeners with delicate sensitivities.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on April 01, 2015, 02:03:26 PM
Gregorian Chant: Lamentations of the Prophet Jeremiah from this CD....


(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0000/979/MI0000979609.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)


....beautifully sung.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Moonfish on April 01, 2015, 02:14:45 PM
Quote from: Florestan on April 01, 2015, 12:36:00 PM
Haven´t heard this one, but it looks delicious. Wishlisted.

In the same vein this disc is a must:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0000/980/MI0000980025.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

Allmusic review by James Leonard -

What is music coming to? With a song called "I'm Called Mister Erection," lyrics including the deathless line "it's a piece of dog sh*t," melodies so primitive that they're infantile, and harmonies so primitive that they barely exist, it's hard to imagine ever calling this stuff music. But not only was this stuff written by Orlande de Lassus, one of the greatest of the late-Renaissance composers, he even saw fit to publish most of it. Apparently, despite his transcendent motets and his exquisite madrigals, Lassus had a sense of humor and all listeners can do is to take it or leave it. But if they decide to take it, they have to take it with a grain of salt and a sense of humor.

Rinaldo Alessandrini and the Concerto Italiano clearly decided to take it with a great sense of humor because this is one of the funniest discs of so-called serious music ever released. That this is the same rarified vocal ensemble that has released so many emotionally nuanced recordings of Monteverdi's madrigals is hard to believe, but clearly the singers are enjoying their work and their enjoyment is infectious. Although the singers still sing with wonderful expressivity and tremendous flexibility, the Concerto Italiano is not shy about making the sound of its voices match the crude, rude, and lewd music. The result is a terrific disc, but certainly not for listeners with delicate sensitivities.


Leonard's review certainly makes it look like an intriguing (and lewd) recording!  :)  No wonder one needs the booklets with the texts.  0:)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on April 02, 2015, 01:32:14 AM
These two superb discs can go in pair for a delightful listening session. Jacopo da Bologna allegedly was the teacher of Francesco Landini.

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/196/MI0001196109.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/046/MI0001046994.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 02, 2015, 02:15:49 AM
Itis unfortunate, since they make a lot of records, but I am not a fan of Anonymous 4.  Nothing worse for my ears than an all female group.

:(
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on April 02, 2015, 02:23:59 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on April 02, 2015, 02:15:49 AM
Itis unfortunate, since they make a lot of records, but I am not a fan of Anonymous 4.  Nothing worse for my ears than an all female group.

:(

You mysoginistic, sexist, patriarchalistic male suprematist! Missing sublime music and musicmaking will be your punishment!  ;D :P
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 02, 2015, 02:25:47 AM
Quote from: Florestan on April 02, 2015, 02:23:59 AM
You mysoginistic, sexist, patriarchalistic male suprematist! Missing sublime music and musicmaking will be your punishment!  ;D :P

;D

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Wakefield on April 02, 2015, 03:30:46 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on April 02, 2015, 02:15:49 AM
Nothing worse for my ears than an all female group.

:(

For historical reasons, all-male ensembles faced the lacking of natural treble voices through special training or, more brutally, surgical interventions (castrati). But, apparently, it also had some successful all-women ensembles, with women competently doing bass voices. The documentary "Vivaldi's Women" is very interesting to watch in this aspect:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=153WVp8QJQ0

:)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Karl Henning on April 02, 2015, 03:47:49 AM
Quote from: Gordo on April 02, 2015, 03:30:46 AM
For historical reasons, all-male ensembles faced the lacking of natural treble voices through special training or, more brutally, surgical interventions (castrati).

There were also boy trebles, of course.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Wakefield on April 02, 2015, 04:01:08 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on April 02, 2015, 03:47:49 AM
There were also boy trebles, of course.

... of course.  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 02, 2015, 04:40:27 AM
Quote from: Gordo on April 02, 2015, 03:30:46 AM
For historical reasons, all-male ensembles faced the lacking of natural treble voices through special training or, more brutally, surgical interventions (castrati). But, apparently, it also had some successful all-women ensembles, with women competently doing bass voices. The documentary "Vivaldi's Women" is very interesting to watch in this aspect:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=153WVp8QJQ0

:)

My preference is not based on historical reasons, but because of the sound of women's voices.  And for mixed groups, if the balance is top heavy it is not to my taste.  Male groups who actuate the high tessitura (transposing up), can fall into this category as well.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on April 02, 2015, 04:43:39 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on April 02, 2015, 04:40:27 AM
My preference is not based on historical reasons, but because of the sound of women's voices. 

Your wife / girlfriend must have a hard time talking to you then.  :P

Seriously now, what's wrong with the sound of women's voices?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 02, 2015, 04:45:58 AM
Quote from: Florestan on April 02, 2015, 04:43:39 AM
Your wife / girlfriend must have a hard time talking to you then.  :P

Seriously now, what's wrong with the sound of women's voices?

I just prefer the sound of men singing this repertory.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on April 02, 2015, 04:47:19 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on April 02, 2015, 04:45:58 AM
I just prefer the sound men singing this repertory.

I see. I suppose you're not into opera either.   :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Karl Henning on April 02, 2015, 04:48:02 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on April 02, 2015, 04:40:27 AM
My preference is not based on historical reasons, but because of the sound of women's voices.  And for mixed groups, if the balance is top heavy it is not to my taste.

Boy trebles have less "heft" in the balance, so that is another advantage.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 02, 2015, 04:50:08 AM
Quote from: Florestan on April 02, 2015, 04:47:19 AM
I see. I suppose you're not into opera either.   :)

Not a problem (depending on the work), nor is lieder, or female soloists.   Pie Jesu from the Durufle Requiem is beautiful, especially sung by Janet Baker.  The preference I am speaking of is limited to very early up to Medieval music.  Monteverdi madrigals are already too late to figure in.  Anonymous 4 has made a specialty of early chant, which is exactly the music I prefer to hear sung by men.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on April 02, 2015, 08:04:22 AM
Palestrina: Lesson 1 for Maundy Thursday from this CD....


(http://rymimg.com/lk/f/l/0c8386894b6c68554a45206f9128975d/1687867.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 02, 2015, 07:18:24 PM
Plorer, Gemir, Crier: Homage to the Golden Voice of Johannes Ockeghem
Antoine Guerber (Conductor), Diabolus in Musica

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71jXHhMphwL._SX355_.jpg)

Very fine.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Wakefield on April 03, 2015, 06:40:46 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on April 02, 2015, 04:50:08 AM
The preference I am speaking of is limited to very early up to Medieval music.  Monteverdi madrigals are already too late to figure in.

Even so, in regards to Monteverdi, IIRC, you're one of the very few people here that have expressed a very good opinion of Delitiae Musicae which I certainly share.  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: EigenUser on April 05, 2015, 03:40:09 PM
A while ago I read that the fourth movement of Messiaen's Et Exspecto Resurrectionem Mortuorum was based off of a Gregorian Easter chant. Would anyone happen to know what exactly this chant is? I'd like to hear it in its original setting. Here is the fourth movement of the Messiaen, in case it helps (which it probably won't because I'm sure it has been mangled beyond recognition :laugh:).
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 05, 2015, 05:08:52 PM
Quote from: Gordo on April 03, 2015, 06:40:46 PM
Even so, in regards to Monteverdi, IIRC, you're one of the very few people here that have expressed a very good opinion of Delitiae Musicae which I certainly share.  :)

Is it the Naxos series for Monteverdi and Gesualdo that you are thinking of?  I do consider them very worthwhile recordings.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on April 06, 2015, 12:19:56 AM
Quote from: Gordo on April 03, 2015, 06:40:46 PM
Even so, in regards to Monteverdi, IIRC, you're one of the very few people here that have expressed a very good opinion of Delitiae Musicae which I certainly share.  :)
Well, I like them too, and said so some years ago.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 06, 2015, 06:53:36 AM
Just discovered a series of recordings covering the music of the trouveres and troubadours. I am listening to vol. 6, but will certainly check out vols 1-5

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51yc4Pfc8YL._SS480.jpg)

Troubadours Art Ensemble 
Zuchetto, Gerard - Conductor
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Wakefield on April 06, 2015, 09:54:35 AM
Quote from: The new erato on April 06, 2015, 12:19:56 AM
Well, I like them too, and said so some years ago.

Of course! You're among the very few.  :D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Wakefield on April 06, 2015, 09:59:28 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on April 05, 2015, 05:08:52 PM
Is it the Naxos series for Monteverdi and Gesualdo that you are thinking of?  I do consider them very worthwhile recordings.

Yes, but just Monteverdi, I bought the complete collection. On the other hand, I never liked Gesualdo. It's probably too much experimental for my usual tastes.  ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 06, 2015, 10:53:17 AM
Quote from: Gordo on April 06, 2015, 09:59:28 AM
Yes, but just Monteverdi, I bought the complete collection. On the other hand, I never liked Gesualdo. It's probably too much experimental for my usual tastes.  ;D

Ah, the Prince of Venosa and Count of Conza is too much for you!   :o
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on April 06, 2015, 10:46:26 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on March 31, 2015, 11:32:59 AM
Two fantastic recordings by Pierre Hamon, Marc Mauillon, and others performing music of Guillaume de Machaut.

Remede de Fortune Import

[asin]B0027YUKKC[/asin]

Mon chant vous envoy

[asin]B00D8DVFF0[/asin]

On Mon Chant Vous Envoy, the team formed in 2005 by Pierre Hamon around the exceptional baritone Marc Mauillon continues to explore the work of the great French musician-poet of the 14th century, Guillaume de Machaut. The album's collection of songs, virelais, ballads and roundels of Guillaume de Machaut exemplify the composer's understanding of the poetic art of courtly love, whose melodies are part of our memory and our psyche. Mauillon is an exceptional talent even in the current environment of medieval music and these melodies 700 years on still maintain an impact. Marc Mauillon is accompanied by his sister Angelique Mauillon on harp, violinist VivaBiancaLuna Biffi, and group leader Pierre Hamon on flute.

One outstanding Marc Mauillon disc is called L'amoureus tourment. I play it a lot.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: EigenUser on April 07, 2015, 12:13:11 AM
Quote from: EigenUser on April 05, 2015, 03:40:09 PM
A while ago I read that the fourth movement of Messiaen's Et Exspecto Resurrectionem Mortuorum was based off of a Gregorian Easter chant. Would anyone happen to know what exactly this chant is? I'd like to hear it in its original setting. Here is the fourth movement of the Messiaen, in case it helps (which it probably won't because I'm sure it has been mangled beyond recognition :laugh:).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NbjEA7WCYs
Does anyone have any idea what I'm talking about?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: DaveF on April 07, 2015, 12:56:22 AM
Quote from: Gordo on April 06, 2015, 09:54:35 AM
Of course! You're among the very few [to express a liking for Delitiæ Musicæ].  :D

Me too - my favourite group for the Monteverdi madrigals.  An 8th book from them would be good - although it's been a long time since they recorded Book 7.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 07, 2015, 03:54:28 AM
Quote from: EigenUser on April 07, 2015, 12:13:11 AM
Does anyone have any idea what I'm talking about?

The theme Messiaen uses in the beginning sounds similar to the Introit chant for Easter day.  Here's one recording with the chants for Easter Mass

https://www.youtube.com/v/oPLRZGaqA3A
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: EigenUser on April 07, 2015, 06:42:32 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on April 07, 2015, 03:54:28 AM
The theme Messiaen uses in the beginning sounds similar to the Introit chant for Easter day.  Here's one recording with the chants for Easter Mass

https://www.youtube.com/v/oPLRZGaqA3A
That is definitely it. It must be. Thanks for the help!

I've had the Messiaen-ized version stuck in my head all day today so far.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Ken B on April 07, 2015, 03:42:47 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on April 07, 2015, 03:54:28 AM
The theme Messiaen uses in the beginning sounds similar to the Introit chant for Easter day.  Here's one recording with the chants for Easter Mass

https://www.youtube.com/v/oPLRZGaqA3A

Nice catch!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 16, 2015, 05:25:55 AM
New (to me) discovery.  This recording from 2010 features a group, sounds like OVPP, male (with boy soprano) after reading more from their site they are a mixed group, of Thomas Tallis.

[asin]B002TXIV8Y[/asin]

Worth a listen.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 23, 2015, 08:30:09 AM
I blogged about Early Music today:

Focus : Early Music (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/04/23/focus-early-music/)

Comments always welcome!

:)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: bluemooze on April 23, 2015, 03:38:30 PM
Well done!   :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 23, 2015, 04:54:45 PM
Quote from: bluemooze on April 23, 2015, 03:38:30 PM
Well done!   :)

Thanks for reading.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Artem on April 26, 2015, 07:10:35 PM
Enjoyed that blogpost very much, sanantonio.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 27, 2015, 04:41:01 AM
Quote from: Artem on April 26, 2015, 07:10:35 PM
Enjoyed that blogpost very much, sanantonio.

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Artem on April 27, 2015, 05:20:56 PM
By the way, has there ever been a reissue of the Byrd cd mentioned in your post?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 27, 2015, 05:46:02 PM
Quote from: Artem on April 27, 2015, 05:20:56 PM
By the way, has there ever been a reissue of the Byrd cd mentioned in your post?

The one that I link to in the post is this one

[asin]B000026JDO[/asin]

a bit pricey, yes, but I am not sure if there is another one available.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on May 03, 2015, 03:41:38 PM
I just bought The Orlando Consort's first two releases on Hyperion Records.  Both are of Machaut:

Livre dou Voir Dit ('Book of the True Tale') is Machaut's masterpiece. By its very title, the tale purports to be autobiographical: it relates a supposedly recent episode in the ageing poet-composer's life, his love affair with a lady some forty years his junior.

(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571177274.png)

(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571280080.png)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on May 21, 2015, 04:50:46 AM
Ensemble Micrologus (http://micrologus.it/ensemble-micrologus/) perform music from the 13th-16th century, mainly from Italy.  Patrizia Bovi, their primary soloist, has a voice with an edge and rough quality which is very pleasing.  They've been around for a long time, since 1984, but not much is said about them on GMG.  Their founding member died in 2006 but they have continued to produce programmatic concerts and recordings  Their most recent CD was released in July 2014 with frottole and villotte about folk themes and figures, later destined to become stock characters of the Commedia dell'Arte, of late 15th – Century.

I've heard these two recordings:

[asin]B00000G3ZS[/asin]

[asin]B0007OY3FC[/asin]

Which I think are very fine.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on May 26, 2015, 04:31:45 PM
Heinrich Laufenberg: Kingdom of Heaven

[asin]B00NGSCMK4[/asin]

Heinrich Laufenberg (1390-1460) is not well known, and there is a good, albeit unfortunate, reason why.  The building where he kept all of his music, the municipal library of Strasbourg, France, was destroyed during the Franco-Prussian war.  However, scholars had taken notes of his scores, including almost a complete set of his songs.  Although the texts survived, most of the music did not.  This album is an attempt to reconstruct some of these songs.  The ensemble Dragma utilized the scholarly notes from the 19th century and created music in idiomatic fashion.  Interspersed between the reconstructions are instrumental pieces from the period when Laufenberg lived.

Despite the rather speculative nature of the recording, the music is well worth your time.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Artem on May 27, 2015, 06:37:26 PM
I have recently bought that CD after seeing it receive Diapason D'Or award. I also think it is rather nice.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on May 27, 2015, 06:56:50 PM
Quote from: Artem on May 27, 2015, 06:37:26 PM
I have recently bought that CD after seeing it receive Diapason D'Or award. I also think it is rather nice.

I agree.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on May 30, 2015, 03:29:50 AM
Guillaume De Machaut according to Munrow....


(http://rymimg.com/lk/f/l/faec239febce556486f60123ff22cb7c/4305489.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on May 30, 2015, 04:54:14 AM
Quote from: aligreto on May 30, 2015, 03:29:50 AM
Guillaume De Machaut according to Munrow....


(http://rymimg.com/lk/f/l/faec239febce556486f60123ff22cb7c/4305489.jpg)

What does this release contain?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Jo498 on May 30, 2015, 05:16:54 AM
This probably overlaps with or is contained in "The Art of Courtly Love"

[asin]B000002SSB[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on May 30, 2015, 05:37:26 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on May 30, 2015, 04:54:14 AM
What does this release contain?

My version above is the original vinyl LP but here is a link (http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/various_artists_f2/guillaume_de_machaut_and_his_age__the_early_music_consort_of_london___david_munrow__dir__/) with the track listing. It may well indeed be incorporated in the set listed by Jo498.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on May 31, 2015, 04:47:05 AM
Quote from: aligreto on May 30, 2015, 05:37:26 AM
My version above is the original vinyl LP but here is a link (http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/various_artists_f2/guillaume_de_machaut_and_his_age__the_early_music_consort_of_london___david_munrow__dir__/) with the track listing. It may well indeed be incorporated in the set listed by Jo498.

Thanks. As I supposed Jo is right in his post above.

I asked, because I used to own the original LP release (box with 3 LPs - gave them away, when I got the CD release), but the cover picture was different.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on May 31, 2015, 05:57:11 AM
(http://boxset.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/the_hilliard_ensemble_lassus_busspsalmen.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on May 31, 2015, 06:07:53 AM
Guillaume de Machaut (ca. 1300-1377) is the most well-known composer of the 14th century.  I can make this statement with complete confidence of its veracity.  Machaut had a day job, he worked for John of Luxembourg, King of Bohemia, from 'around twelve years' before 1330 until at least 1333 (and probably until 1346) (Leach, Elizabeth Eva. "Guillaume de Machaut, royal almoner: Honte, paour (B25) and Donnez, signeurs (B26) in context." Early Music 38.1 (2010): 21-42.)

These duties positioned and provided Machaut with the skill set and resources to preserve his music to a degree unavailable for most of his contemporaries.  As a result we have no problem of attribution, and at least two complete books of his works which were if not completely made by Machaut under his close supervision.  The ordering of the works in these volumes is especially important, and something Machaut no doubt controlled.

RTRH (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/05/21/guillaume-de-machaut-the-best-known-composerpoet-of-the-14th-century/)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on May 31, 2015, 09:40:52 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on May 31, 2015, 06:07:53 AM
Guillaume de Machaut (ca. 1300-1377) is the most well-known composer of the 14th century.  I can make this statement with complete confidence of its veracity.  Machaut had a day job, he worked for John of Luxembourg, King of Bohemia, from 'around twelve years' before 1330 until at least 1333 (and probably until 1346) (Leach, Elizabeth Eva. "Guillaume de Machaut, royal almoner: Honte, paour (B25) and Donnez, signeurs (B26) in context." Early Music 38.1 (2010): 21-42.)

These duties positioned and provided Machaut with the skill set and resources to preserve his music to a degree unavailable for most of his contemporaries.  As a result we have no problem of attribution, and at least two complete books of his works which were if not completely made by Machaut under his close supervision.  The ordering of the works in these volumes is especially important, and something Machaut no doubt controlled.

RTRH (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/05/21/guillaume-de-machaut-the-best-known-composerpoet-of-the-14th-century/)

Thank you for that and especially for the link, which I will follow up later.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 06, 2015, 01:53:09 AM
Early Music lovers, any comments on this recent reissue will be welcome! :)

[asin]B00P2U7D5I[/asin]
Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on June 06, 2015, 02:17:59 AM
All I can say is that they make wonderful wines from the Aglianico grape from the area around Benevento (I was there in 2004). And that Tony Soprano used to brag that his family was down to earth farmers from Benevento.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 06, 2015, 03:24:25 AM
Quote from: The new erato on June 06, 2015, 02:17:59 AM
All I can say is that they make wonderful wines from the Aglianico grape from the area around Benevento (I was there in 2004). And that Tony Soprano used to brag that his family was down to earth farmers from Benevento.

I am not a fan of the Soprano's, but the wine recommendation sounds good.  :D

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: king ubu on June 09, 2015, 03:13:02 AM
had that one a couple of times - the label forced me to try it:

(http://images.vivino.com/thumbs/00wv04z0dt1c4_375x500.jpg)

it's good, but too expensive here for daily usage ...

as for Ensemble Organum, I've bought several of their discs by now and enjoyed what I heard - but I'm really no expert in this kind of music, it all still sounds pretty foreign to me, still trying to get into it more.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on June 14, 2015, 12:50:58 AM
Songs by Guillaume de Machaut....


(http://cdn.discogs.com/422xKsTZ0_PkFpO6wZ6Ok80KJYk=/fit-in/500x476/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(96)/discogs-images/R-5067696-1383606635-1226.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on June 14, 2015, 02:16:01 AM
Quote from: aligreto on June 14, 2015, 12:50:58 AM
Songs by Guillaume de Machaut....


(http://cdn.discogs.com/422xKsTZ0_PkFpO6wZ6Ok80KJYk=/fit-in/500x476/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(96)/discogs-images/R-5067696-1383606635-1226.jpeg.jpg)

Looks nice! 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on June 14, 2015, 07:51:31 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on June 14, 2015, 02:16:01 AM
Looks nice!

Yes, it was most enjoyable  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on June 19, 2015, 03:45:43 AM
(Cross-post with the WAYLT thread, where it will soon be buried.)

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/037/MI0001037843.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

This CD is simply excellent. It is not quite original Verdelot, as it consists of Adrian Willaert´s arrangement for voice and lute of some of Verdelot´s madrigals, interspersed with pieces for solo lute. Sonically speaking, the voice and the lute are recorded on separate channels and that gives a lively feeling of space: one can picture the singer in a corner and the lutenist in another corner. The end result is one of the most intimate, heartfelt and beautifully sounding musicmaking I´ve ever heard, and on top of it you get that unmistakable Renaissance mood and soundworld. A winner!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on June 26, 2015, 11:55:57 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81uT7E1G7wL._SL1416_.jpg)

This set of three CDs contains the complete Chansonnier Cordiforme, perhaps the most beautiful of all surviving music manuscripts, whose first owner was Jean de Montchenu (d. 1497). It was compiled during the 1470s and contains 43 songs from the preceding 30 years by Dufay, Binchois, Ockeghem, Busnoys and other composers of the time. This was the first, and remains the only complete recording ever made of an entire fifteenth-century songbook; and it gives everything in its original order, starting from the first page and ending on the last. The extensive booklet includes new introductions by Anthony Rooley and the Chansonnier's editor and project supervisor, David Fallows, a substantial essay on the background to the music as well as every title by Fallows and full texts and translations. A true Eloquence magnum opus receiving its first international release on CD. - Amazon Editorial Review

I played the first 2 CDs yesterday night and the night before. Tonight I will finish the whole series with the 3rd CD.

I fully endorse what an Amazon reviewer wrote:

This CD set offers a set of truly exquisite performances. I consider this to be one of the foremost treasures I have encountered in many years of listening to music, and recommend it with great enthusiasm.

This is one of the most beautiful music and musicmaking I have ever heard. Period.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on June 28, 2015, 02:14:18 AM
Ockeghem: Requiem & Missa Mi-Mi / The Hilliard Ensemble....


(http://cdn.discogs.com/zCqgkkHtBErh2tbhdPo7C92ENJc=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb()/discogs-images/R-7000524-1431375880-7252.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on June 28, 2015, 03:55:40 AM
I received a notice of this new Cinquecento recording from Hyperion

Lassus : Missa super Dixit Joseph & motets

(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571280646.png)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on June 28, 2015, 07:20:22 AM
Quote from: aligreto on June 28, 2015, 02:14:18 AM
Ockeghem: Requiem & Missa Mi-Mi / The Hilliard Ensemble....


(http://cdn.discogs.com/zCqgkkHtBErh2tbhdPo7C92ENJc=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb()/discogs-images/R-7000524-1431375880-7252.jpeg.jpg)

Presumably the first half of this Virgin double is a reissue.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MCfuSdzJL.jpg)

Tres bien.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on June 28, 2015, 10:19:38 AM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on June 28, 2015, 07:20:22 AM
Presumably the first half of this Virgin double is a reissue.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MCfuSdzJL.jpg)

Tres bien.

Yes, it certainly looks like it; mine is the single vinyl release.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Artem on June 28, 2015, 06:51:34 PM
Two CDs tonight:

[asin]B00008W7DM[/asin]
[asin]B001927MKO[/asin]

Vox Silentii's disk has been with me for some time now and I really enjoy it. Three female vocalists, often it is just one singing voice. I haven't heard Organum's Messe de Notre Dame before and I found it very odd. It is almost like Middle Eastern music to me. Weird. Will need to listen again.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 28, 2015, 09:30:27 PM
Quote from: Artem on June 28, 2015, 06:51:34 PM
[asin]B001927MKO[/asin]

Vox Silentii's disk has been with me for some time now and I really enjoy it. Three female vocalists, often it is just one singing voice. I haven't heard Organum's Messe de Notre Dame before and I found it very odd. It is almost like Middle Eastern music to me. Weird. Will need to listen again.

It sounds like that because of the ("Byzantine") way Péres performs it. Other performances do not sound like that (at all)! :)

See my earlier comments HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg231478/topicseen.html#msg231478) and a comparison with the Ensemble Binchois HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg365891/topicseen.html#msg365891).

And...welcome to the Club! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: EigenUser on June 29, 2015, 01:58:32 AM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on June 28, 2015, 07:20:22 AM
Presumably the first half of this Virgin double is a reissue.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MCfuSdzJL.jpg)

Tres bien.
Missa Mi-mi and Missa Prolationum are two of my favorites. I don't think I've heard this, but I could be wrong. My favorite recording of Missa Mi-mi is the Cappella Pratensis. I'd recommend it for those who prefer a darker, shadier sound.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on June 30, 2015, 01:14:25 PM
(http://www.classicsonline.com/miscellaneous/imagedownloader.aspx?file=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.classicsonline.com%2Fimages%2Fcds%2F554257.gif&cid=8.554257)


This is one of my favourite Early Music CDs. The instruments are wonderfully sonorous and the vocals of Maria D. Lafitte are terrific, ranging from raucous to haunting. Her performances are full of passion and conviction and they create a marvellous atmosphere. Warmly recommended.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on July 04, 2015, 11:54:33 PM
Early morning, Early Music listening....


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515jw11r2IL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on July 04, 2015, 11:57:25 PM
Quote from: aligreto on July 04, 2015, 11:54:33 PM
Early morning, Early Music listening....


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515jw11r2IL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

Don't know the ensemble,  looks nice! :) Though Sweelinck was not exactly French, but did write psalms in French....

I recall new erato recommending a  disc with similar music by Pascal de l'Estochart:

[asin]B000NVLESI[/asin]

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on July 05, 2015, 12:25:05 AM
Quote from: aligreto on June 30, 2015, 01:14:25 PM
(http://www.classicsonline.com/miscellaneous/imagedownloader.aspx?file=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.classicsonline.com%2Fimages%2Fcds%2F554257.gif&cid=8.554257)


This is one of my favourite Early Music CDs. The instruments are wonderfully sonorous and the vocals of Maria D. Lafitte are terrific, ranging from raucous to haunting. Her performances are full of passion and conviction and they create a marvellous atmosphere. Warmly recommended.

Good stuff; the music ofthe troubadours and trouveres is some of my favorite.  Ensemble Unicorn has a box too.

[asin]B007WB5D6Q[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on July 05, 2015, 12:28:45 AM
To my eternal shame I have to admit that I do not like troubadour songs, drinking songs and music like that..... :-[

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on July 05, 2015, 12:42:44 AM
Quote from: Que on July 05, 2015, 12:28:45 AM
To my eternal shame I have to admit that I do not like troubadour songs, drinking songs and music like that..... :-[

Q

I discovered the variety of troubadour and trouvere songs when studying the music of Machaut.  Some good stuff by the Folger Consort but also this more recent recording

[asin]B0000240AS[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on July 05, 2015, 04:07:28 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on July 05, 2015, 12:25:05 AM
Good stuff; the music ofthe troubadours and trouveres is some of my favorite.  Ensemble Unicorn has a box too.

[asin]B007WB5D6Q[/asin]

I like Ensemble Unicorn and I actually have four of the individual CDs in that box set  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on July 05, 2015, 04:09:18 AM
Quote from: Que on July 05, 2015, 12:28:45 AM
To my eternal shame I have to admit that I do not like troubadour songs, drinking songs and music like that..... :-[

Q

Perhaps like the beverages that they accompany, the songs are an acquired taste  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on July 05, 2015, 05:24:08 AM
Quote from: aligreto on July 05, 2015, 04:09:18 AM
Perhaps like the beverages that they accompany, the songs are an acquired taste  :)

The music of the troubadours and trouveres falls into two broad categories: 1) the dance-like and more raucous music and 2) the plaintiff love songs.  I don't listen to the former hardly at all but find much to enjoy in the latter.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on July 05, 2015, 01:24:39 PM
http://www.bostonherald.com/entertainment/arts_culture/2015/07/now_playing_harpsichord_of_columbus_era_sounds_again
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on July 06, 2015, 02:15:38 PM
Early Music late at night....


(http://www.classicsonline.com/miscellaneous/imagedownloader.aspx?file=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.classicsonline.com%2Fimages%2Fcds%2F554284.gif&cid=8.554284)


I am partial to a consort of viols.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on July 12, 2015, 12:45:44 AM
(http://cdn.discogs.com/AO1gPKnNAos9iUG8HF2DYQAEmdQ=/fit-in/600x521/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(96)/discogs-images/R-682378-1393592586-5483.jpeg.jpg)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on July 12, 2015, 11:08:44 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51KVDkf9aDL.jpg)


Beautiful music beautifully sung by a well balanced and recorded ensemble.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on July 23, 2015, 12:16:23 PM
Don't know if this has been mentioned here -

The Rose, the Lily & the Whortleberry (Medieval Gardens in Music)
- Orlando Consort

[asin]B000BT5EDS[/asin]

I like it a lot.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on July 31, 2015, 10:18:14 PM
A co-worker has this.  I can't find any information about it.  Does anyone know anything about it? It's an 8 disc set, released in 2013.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/6170E6xaknL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Moonfish on July 31, 2015, 11:43:13 PM
Quote from: Mookalafalas on July 31, 2015, 10:18:14 PM
A co-worker has this.  I can't find any information about it.  Does anyone know anything about it? It's an 8 disc set, released in 2013.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/6170E6xaknL.jpg)

Al!!!!    :)

Ricercar has great online information: Here is the main page (http://www.outhere-music.com/en/albums/music-in-europe-at-the-time-of-the-renaissance-ric-106) for the set

This is the tracklisting for the set (http://www.outhere-music.com/uploads/booklets/527a173adb6fe.pdf?1.0.0.3) with lots of specifics (pdf).
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on August 01, 2015, 12:46:06 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518CwzDhdsL.jpg)


This is a compilation CD which ultimately led me to explore the different composers contained therein. The music is wonderful, the performances are terrific and the sound world is enchanting. It is a great introduction to Early Music and a strong recommendation even simply as a good general listen.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on August 01, 2015, 11:28:33 PM
Lassus: Missa Osculetur....


(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/059/MI0001059377.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on August 02, 2015, 12:07:08 AM
Quote from: aligreto on August 01, 2015, 11:28:33 PM
Lassus: Missa Osculetur....

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/059/MI0001059377.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

I thought the name of the mass looked unfamiliar, and indeed I seem to have no recording of it....
Would the Tallis be the only group to have recorded it to date? :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on August 02, 2015, 12:17:07 AM
In 40 years of following this repertoire, i cannot remember seeing another version.

Of all great composers (at least as regarded in the standard texts, Lassus and Palestrina are the most seriously underrecorded.)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on August 02, 2015, 12:24:04 AM
Quote from: The new erato on August 02, 2015, 12:17:07 AM
In 40 years of following this repertoire, i cannot remember seeing another version.

Of all great composers (at least as regarded in the standard texts, Lassus and Palestrina are the most seriously underrecorded.)

I agree.  Though the situation in Lassus in steadily improving - I have been able to gather quite a nice Lassus collection, be it of modest proportions. :)
Palestrina seems still to be hardly recorded at all..... ???

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on August 02, 2015, 12:28:17 AM
That is probably true, I have slightly more than a dozen Lassus discs. The Sixteen are doung a Palestrina series, unfortunately they represent a style I don't like too much in this repertoire,
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Jo498 on August 02, 2015, 12:36:36 AM
a quotation from Song of Songs I guess (He shall kiss me...) I do not know the piece.

But how does Renaissance mass nomenclature work? Sometimes they refer to a "popular" tune used somewhere in the mass (like L'homme armé), sometimes some Gregorian tune, sometimes it seems an original title, sometimes a technical hint (Missa mi-mi), sometimes I do not have a clue...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on August 02, 2015, 12:37:05 AM
Quote from: The new erato on August 02, 2015, 12:28:17 AM
That is probably true, I have slightly more than a dozen Lassus discs. The Sixteen are doung a Palestrina series, unfortunately they represent a style I don't like too much in this repertoire,

Agreed again.  :)

I have to hand it to the Brits, they are alwaysin the forefront when it comes to uncharted territory.
But I wish some continental, preferably Italian, ensembles would do more Palestrina. The ways things are going, it is only a matter of time! :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on August 02, 2015, 05:27:49 PM
Some exciting news (to me, at least): the Orlando Consort has recorded a second album (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA68069&utm_medium=DM&utm_source=DM201508&dm_i=10ZR,3IWTV,JL36XM,CMWLG,1) of music by Loyset Compère, on Hyperion:

(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571280691.png)

Since their first recording (http://www.amazon.com/Orlando-Consort-Loyset-Comp%C3%A8re/dp/B0011XW67K/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1438565066&sr=1-2&keywords=loyset+compere+orlando+consort), now over 20 years ago, some new information has come to light, placing Compère chronologically before Josquin as opposed to what was thought previously, that Compère was a contemporary and follower.  It now seems that Compere pre-dated Josquin by at least a decade and developed his contrapuntal style on his own.  In fact it now can be argued that Josquin was influenced by Compere and not the other way around.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on August 02, 2015, 09:19:30 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on July 31, 2015, 11:43:13 PM
Al!!!!    :)

Ricercar has great online information: Here is the main page (http://www.outhere-music.com/en/albums/music-in-europe-at-the-time-of-the-renaissance-ric-106) for the set

This is the tracklisting for the set (http://www.outhere-music.com/uploads/booklets/527a173adb6fe.pdf?1.0.0.3) with lots of specifics (pdf).

  thanks, Peter, I appreciate the links :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on August 16, 2015, 02:05:03 AM
(http://cdn.discogs.com/wjPkKF4oCaHeb6II6s7vaslCMB8=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb()/discogs-images/R-3658980-1339232867-2212.jpeg.jpg)

Simply wonderful!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on August 23, 2015, 03:37:59 AM
I am enjoying this at the moment....


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51T5Tx07qaL._SY355_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on August 27, 2015, 07:04:53 AM
Josquin des Prez (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/08/27/josquin-des-prez-passed-away-in-the-year-1521-the-27th-of-%3Cbr%20/%3Eaugust/) : Passed away in the year 1521, the 27th of August

(http://bp1.blogger.com/_9etVnS4R1As/R7FY76trF-I/AAAAAAAAA9c/gW16jj07XHg/s400/1450DESPREZ.jpg)

In an era when music was generally performed a few times before being replaced by something newer, Josquin des Prez was a rarity: a composer who was remembered and honored long after his death. Throughout the sixteenth century, his works were cited in theoretical treatises and extensively quoted in the music of other composers. In 1538, seventeen years after Josquin died, Martin Luther extolled him as "the master of the notes, which must do as he wishes, while other composers must follow what the notes dictate." Even in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, Josquin's music was not entirely forgotten, while the nineteenth century saw him acclaimed (alongside Palestrina) as one of the two greatest composers of the Renaissance.

https://www.youtube.com/v/nfVnqU8hyxU
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on August 29, 2015, 12:39:45 AM
Chrrently listening to....


(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/017/MI0001017314.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on August 30, 2015, 05:32:24 AM
I have just immersed myself in the wonderful sound world of David Munrow....


(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0000/979/MI0000979494.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on August 30, 2015, 12:33:13 PM
Flemish Renaissance music by various composers....


(http://www.classicsonline.com/miscellaneous/imagedownloader.aspx?file=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.classicsonline.com%2Fimages%2Fcds%2F554516.gif&cid=8.554516)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on August 30, 2015, 01:56:30 PM
Just bought this - it collects a nice selection of music on 2 well-packed CDs

(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/755138121324.png) (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDGIM213&utm_medium=DM&utm_source=DM201509&dm_i=10ZR,3L9OY,JL36XM,CW7EE,1)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on September 06, 2015, 10:12:22 AM
(http://cf-images.emusic.com/music/images/album/156/511/15651160/600x600.jpg)


This music is lively and well played and the textures of the instruments lend great interest to the atmosphere; very enjoyable.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on September 20, 2015, 03:14:18 PM
Gilles de Binchois : born 1400 – dies 20 September 1460 (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/09/20/gilles-de-binchois-born-1400-dies-20-september-1460/)

(http://www.classical.net/music/images/composer/b/binchois.jpg)

Binchois is often considered to be the finest melodist of the 15th century, writing carefully shaped lines which are not only easy to sing but utterly memorable. His tunes appeared in copies decades after his death, and were often used as sources for Mass composition by later composers. Most of his music, even his sacred music, is simple and clear in outline, sometimes even ascetic; a greater contrast between Binchois and the extreme complexity of the ars subtilior of the prior (fourteenth) century would be hard to imagine. Most of his secular songs are rondeaux, which became the most common song form during the century.

https://www.youtube.com/v/VYrjtDickmo
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on October 04, 2015, 04:06:51 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51o6O5WlQgL.jpg)


A terrific disc; great music and great playing!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on October 04, 2015, 06:06:51 AM
Quote from: aligreto on September 06, 2015, 10:12:22 AM
(http://cf-images.emusic.com/music/images/album/156/511/15651160/600x600.jpg)


This music is lively and well played and the textures of the instruments lend great interest to the atmosphere; very enjoyable.

Certainly. And the Susato CD from the same performers is also quite enjoyable.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 04, 2015, 06:43:40 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on October 04, 2015, 06:06:51 AM
Certainly. And the Susato CD from the same performers is also quite enjoyable.

As is the Scheidt.

There are some real treasures in the White Label series.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on October 06, 2015, 05:48:03 AM
5 CD Etcetera release:

(http://media.mdt.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/K/T/KTC1519.jpg)

Anybody have any info?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on October 06, 2015, 01:47:46 PM
Quote from: The new erato on October 06, 2015, 05:48:03 AM
5 CD Etcetera release:

(http://media.mdt.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/K/T/KTC1519.jpg)

Anybody have any info?

jpc has this:

(https://media2.jpc.de/image/w600/rear/0/8711801015194.jpg)

And: http://www.etcetera-records.com/album/548/footsteps-alamire

Q

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on October 06, 2015, 09:55:55 PM
OK thanks! Must check for overlap with other Etcetera reissues I have.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on October 13, 2015, 07:06:01 AM
Gregorio Allegri : Renaissance vocal polyphony in its purest form

(https://musicakaleidoscope.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/gregorio-allegri.jpg?w=453&h=228) (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/10/13/gregorio-allegri-renaissance-vocal-polyphony-in-its-purest-form/)

Among the musical compositions of Allegri were two volumes of concerti for five voices, published in 1618 and 1619; two volumes of motets for six voices, published in 1621; an edition of four-part sinfonia; five masses, two settings of the Lamentations of Jeremiah, as well as numerous motets which were not published in his lifetime. He was one of the earliest composers for stringed instruments, and Athanasius Kircher has given one specimen of this class of his works in his Musurgia. Most of Allegri's published music is in the more progressive early Baroque concertato style, especially the instrumental music. However, his work for the Sistine Chapel is descended from the Palestrina style, and in some cases strips even this refined, simple style of all ornament. He is credited with the earliest string quartet.

By far the most well known and regarded piece of music composed by Allegri is the Miserere mei, Deus (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA8_oE-nS5c), a setting of Vulgate Psalm 50 (also numbered as Psalm 51).

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71qN3IDivSL._SX355_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on October 15, 2015, 07:23:00 AM
Elam Rotem : Early Music performer, scholar and composer

(https://musicakaleidoscope.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/rotem1.jpg?w=293&h=314) (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/10/15/elam-rotem-early-music-performer-scholar-and-composer/)

Since about the mid-19th century, classical music has been governed by a narrative of historical progress. Composers have been taken seriously only if they write in a modern, new-sounding style; composers who continued to write in traditional styles were considered less "important," and when they wrote in frankly historical styles - as when Mendelssohn wrote fugues in the style of Bach - the results were considered exercises or trifles. But with today's expansion of cultural pluralism, that narrative of musical progress is being questioned. A composer can, without losing respect, draw on virtually any style from any era to create something new.

Meet Elam Rotem, a veritable Renaissance man: Rotem is a notable performer of the early Italian Baroque and also a distinguished scholar of the era. That combination is not unusual among early-music specialists, but Rotem adds a third endeavor that is quite rare among his colleagues: he composes ambitious new works.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on November 06, 2015, 08:10:43 AM
Antoine Busnois : Worthy of the immortal gods, died #OnThisDay 1492 (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/11/06/antoine-busnois-worthy-of-the-immortal-gods-died-onthisday-1492/)

(https://musicakaleidoscope.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/busnois1.jpg?w=273&h=344)

On this day in 1492, Antoine Busnois died.  He was a Netherlandish composer and poet of the early Renaissance Burgundian School. While also noted as a composer of motets and other sacred music, he was one of the most renowned 15th-century composers of secular chansons. He was the leading figure of the late Burgundian school after the death of Guillaume Dufay.

(https://musicakaleidoscope.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/busnois2.jpg?w=300)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on November 17, 2015, 09:04:21 AM
Hildegard of Bingen : Re-Imagined (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/11/17/hildegard-of-bingen-re-imagined/)

(https://musicakaleidoscope.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/hildegurls1.jpg?w=764)

Hildegurls
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on November 17, 2015, 09:25:50 AM
I visited the abbey at Bingen in 2010, pretty close to the Sarge's abode I guess.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on November 20, 2015, 10:29:20 AM
MACHAUT'S MESSE DE NOTRE DAME : AN OVERVIEW (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/11/20/machauts-messe-de-notre-dame-an-overview/)

(https://musicakaleidoscope.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/machaut_mass_score.jpg?w=502&h=345)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on November 22, 2015, 07:35:51 AM
Jacob Obrecht : Netherlands Renaissance composer born #OnThisDay (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/11/22/jacob-obrecht-netherlands-renaissance-composer-born-onthisday/)

(https://musicakaleidoscope.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/obrecht1.jpg?w=264)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on November 23, 2015, 08:43:33 AM
Thomas Tallys : one of Englands's greatest composers died #OnThisDay in 1585 (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/11/23/thomas-tallys-one-of-englandss-greatest-composers-died-onthisday-in-1585/)

(https://musicakaleidoscope.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/tallis1.jpg?w=764)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on November 27, 2015, 02:21:50 AM
Following in Harry's  footsteps by revisiting this:

[asin]B00ABQM49I[/asin]

This set gets some bad press on Amazon for, basically, being dull....
Some blame the composer and qualify the performances as "heavenly", some  blame both.

The Fanfare review is much more positive: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=871624
As is Johan van Veen: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/July13/Willaert_motets_OC835.htm

I am inclined to agree with our Harry, who loves it.
Willaert was a transitional figuere who in my opinion wrote these motets deliberately in an introverted and musically conservative style (Stile Antico).  Singer Pur does honour its name by taking a natural approach to the music, without trying to emotionally "highlight" it. I think that leaving the introverted, low key nature of the music as it is, was a wise decision by Singer Pur. They present us with the music as it is, up to up us to decise whether we like it. I do. I do enjoy the way the music unobtrusively unfolds in perfect performances. For me not every composer has to storm the gates of Heaven. ...
But just wait until The Sound and the Fury try their hands on this... 8)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on November 27, 2015, 02:52:30 AM
Quote from: Que on November 27, 2015, 02:21:50 AM
Following in Harry's  footsteps by revisiting this:

[asin]B00ABQM49I[/asin]

This set gets some bad press on Amazon for, basically, being dull....
Some blame the composer and qualify the performances as "heavenly", some  blame both.
The Fanfare review is much more positive: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=871624
As is Johan van Veen: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/July13/Willaert_motets_OC835.htm

I am inclined to agree with our Harry, who loves it.
Willaert was a transitional figuere who in my opinion wrote these motets deliberately in an introverted and musically conservative style (Stile Antico).  Singer Pur does honour its name by taking a natural approach to the music, without trying to emotionally "highlight" it. I think that leaving the introverted, low key nature of the music as it is, was a wise decision by Singer Pur. They present us with the music as it is, up to up us to decise whether we like it. I do. I do enjoy the way the music unobtrusively unfolds in perfect performances. For me not every composer has to storm the gates of Heaven. ...
But just wait until The Sound and the Fury try their hands on this... 8)

Q
After an initial listen to disc one, I thought the various works sounded somewhat samey. Which however doesn't mean the individual works aren't very fine, or that the singing is less than wonderful. Sampled one or two at a time, this is very good.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on November 27, 2015, 07:53:58 AM
Quote from: Que on November 27, 2015, 02:21:50 AM
Following in Harry's  footsteps by revisiting this:

[asin]B00ABQM49I[/asin]

This set gets some bad press on Amazon for, basically, being dull....
Some blame the composer and qualify the performances as "heavenly", some  blame both.
The Fanfare review is much more positive: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=871624
As is Johan van Veen: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/July13/Willaert_motets_OC835.htm

I am inclined to agree with our Harry, who loves it.
Willaert was a transitional figuere who in my opinion wrote these motets deliberately in an introverted and musically conservative style (Stile Antico).  Singer Pur does honour its name by taking a natural approach to the music, without trying to emotionally "highlight" it. I think that leaving the introverted, low key nature of the music as it is, was a wise decision by Singer Pur. They present us with the music as it is, up to up us to decise whether we like it. I do. I do enjoy the way the music unobtrusively unfolds in perfect performances. For me not every composer has to storm the gates of Heaven. ...
But just wait until The Sound and the Fury try their hands on this... 8)

Q

I've only ever listened superficially, it maybe would help to study how he set the texts.  My impression is that the music isn't expressive - it's just consistently drab. Neither does it contain any catchy tunes. Or major musical events.

But contrapuntally there are some  interesting things going on, and Singer Pur is pretty good at that sort of thing. This little discussion has made me think that now is the time for me to get Rifkin's LP of the motets, which a friend of mine who is more knowledgable about early music than I am says  is particularly outstanding.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on November 27, 2015, 07:57:49 AM
Quote from: Que on November 27, 2015, 02:21:50 AM
Following in Harry's  footsteps by revisiting this:

[asin]B00ABQM49I[/asin]

This set gets some bad press on Amazon for, basically, being dull....
Some blame the composer and qualify the performances as "heavenly", some  blame both.
The Fanfare review is much more positive: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=871624
As is Johan van Veen: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/July13/Willaert_motets_OC835.htm

I am inclined to agree with our Harry, who loves it.
Willaert was a transitional figuere who in my opinion wrote these motets deliberately in an introverted and musically conservative style (Stile Antico).  Singer Pur does honour its name by taking a natural approach to the music, without trying to emotionally "highlight" it. I think that leaving the introverted, low key nature of the music as it is, was a wise decision by Singer Pur. They present us with the music as it is, up to up us to decise whether we like it. I do. I do enjoy the way the music unobtrusively unfolds in perfect performances. For me not every composer has to storm the gates of Heaven. ...
But just wait until The Sound and the Fury try their hands on this... 8)

Q

I agree with your comment (bolded) and enjoy this disc very much.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on November 28, 2015, 03:30:09 AM
This morning's listening....


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515i16886dL.jpg)


Very easy listening.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on December 03, 2015, 11:17:19 PM
I was intrigued by this posted recording:

Quote from: Mandryka on December 03, 2015, 08:40:13 AM
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/126/MI0001126390.jpg)

Ross Wood etc play a requiem by Pierre Manchicourt. This is my first experience of this composer, who I just stumbled across via spotify. Once I started to listen I couldn't stop, because the music is so rich melodically, rhythmically and contrapuntally. It is maybe to sensual to be an enduring favourite for me, but nevertheless I shall have to get to know this composer better - if anyone knows anything good to listen to please let me know.

Found some reviews:
http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/a/ars00406a.php
http://www.amazon.com/Pierre-Manchicourt-Volume-2-De/product-reviews/B000HT2MAU/

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on December 07, 2015, 10:08:17 AM
(http://cdn.discogs.com/7231OuCFVErnAU3zZ3MBjVoPWeY=/fit-in/600x598/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(96)/discogs-images/R-2780420-1300719926.jpeg.jpg)


Another wonderful disc from Shirley Rumsey.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on December 08, 2015, 09:09:23 AM
(http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/12/92/42/38/6port660.jpg)


Lovely soprano vocals on this one.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on December 18, 2015, 06:23:26 PM
Cross post from the main listening thread
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on December 18, 2015, 06:16:41 PM
CDs 84/85:   Gustav Leonhardt playing Renaissance and Baroque organs from North Italy (although the music performed reaches to the 18th century and beyond, to Hummel)
[asin]B00KXJD58M[/asin]
The last pair of discs from an outstanding box (although not being keen about organs, I can't say I am as enthused about these last ones as others).  Some performance duds, but generally high quality throughout.  Two sequences of recordings stand out:
Couperin performed by an ensemble led by the Kuijkens, and a series of Bach for keyboard performed by Leonhardt.  Some of the latter has been budget-boxed here
[asin]B005TLWO6S[/asin]
Although that leaves out two discs of organ works and the English Suites.  The Couperin series is more problematic: some is available cheaply used, and the same performers went on to record more Couperin for Accent, but some seems unavailable except as part of this box.

I would anyone interested in the music of 1300-1800 to consider getting this box.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on December 20, 2015, 07:10:20 AM
Music from Jaques Paisible....


(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/038/MI0001038330.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on December 25, 2015, 04:27:45 AM
Cross post; for Christmas morning....


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ebWjYpr3L._SY355_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on December 29, 2015, 01:32:24 PM
A selection of music by Thomas Tomkins....


(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0000/966/MI0000966276.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 16, 2016, 09:50:40 AM
Quote from: Harry's corner on January 16, 2016, 04:47:26 AM
Well two people I respect on this forum are equally happy with this ensemble. I will start with some recordings of them, any recommendations?

My Diabolus in Musica recommendations - unfortunately limited to the recordings I know:

[asin]B00019EYQG[/asin][asin]B000GRUU5W[/asin][asin]B000068VGK[/asin]

And of course the one, which is a recent acquisition - A few more on the wishlist! :)

[asin]B0086WQO9A[/asin]

And then there is one, that arrived two days ago and will get a inaugural spin shortly. 8)
Will report soon, but it comes highly recommended by several at GMG.

[asin]B0053SQSNM[/asin]

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on January 17, 2016, 12:03:32 AM
And this recording of secular chansons is splendid, too. Below an excerpt from the Amazon reviewer formerly known as Giordano Bruno

Quote from: GioThis recording is a perfect companion to Diabolus in Musica's CD of Dufay's most memorable mass, Missa Se La Face Ay Pale (which I've reviewed previously. Wonder of wonders, the chanson Se La Face Ay Pale is included on this disk, in an elaborated "keyboard" setting from a tablature manuscript, played on an instrument that worked somewhat like a harpsichord and sounds rather like a harp on energy drinks. The singers have to share glory in this performance with some extraordinarily skillful playing of late Medieval instruments: vielle (fiddle) and Burgundian harp especially. But there's plenty of glory to be shared.

[asin]B000VIFMI6[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 17, 2016, 12:27:41 AM
Which reminds  me, how is their Machaut Mass?  :)

[asin]B001E1TGMW[/asin]

I imagined that I had it pretty much covered with recordings by the Ensemble Binchois  (Cantus or Brilliant) and Ensemble Organum (HM).
But then this serious contender appears, followed suit by a recording by Musica Nova (Aeon)....

So now there are four seriosu contenders...we are spoilt for choice!  ???

Quote from: sanantonio on November 20, 2015, 10:29:20 AM
MACHAUT'S MESSE DE NOTRE DAME : AN OVERVIEW (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2015/11/20/machauts-messe-de-notre-dame-an-overview/)

(https://musicakaleidoscope.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/machaut_mass_score.jpg?w=502&h=345)

Q

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on January 17, 2016, 12:36:26 AM
Quote from: Que on January 17, 2016, 12:27:41 AM
Which reminds  me, how is their Machaut Mass?  :)

I imagined that I had it pretty much covered with recordings by the Ensemble Binchois  (Cantus or Brilliant) and Ensemble Organum (HM).
But then this serious contender appears, followed suit by a recording by Musica Nova (Aeon)....

So now there are four seriosu contenders...we are spoilt for choice!  ???

Q

I have heard it on Spotify years ago. Can't say I remember more than that I liked it. Here's a review of it, very positive indeed. No comparison is made to the Ens. Gilles Binchois recording - or to the Organum recording, but that one is like no other recording of the work, in any case.

http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/a/alp00132a.php


From the Amazon UK customer review:
QuoteThat accolade goes to the recording by Ensemble Gilles Binchois which is for me the most beautiful, whereas this Diabolus version, with the ensemble's sound centered lower with only having tenors, baritones, bass-baritones & bass, has more solemnity and gravitas.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on January 17, 2016, 03:10:58 AM
Quote from: North Star on January 17, 2016, 12:36:26 AM

http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/a/alp00132a.php


Yes, sonorous and unhurried are good descriptions of Diabolus' Machaut Messe.

But do not forget these two equally fine interpretations:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Machaut-Messe-Nostre-Dam-Parrott/dp/B00000DNIY/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1453032470&sr=1-1&keywords=machaut+parrott

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Machaut-Notre-Dame-Rene-Clemencic-Con/dp/B000K2QL1K/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1453032529&sr=1-1&keywords=machaut+clemencic

Both are performed with the correct scoring: 2 tenors and 2 basses.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 28, 2016, 11:30:51 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on January 17, 2016, 03:10:58 AM
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Machaut-Notre-Dame-Rene-Clemencic-Con/dp/B000K2QL1K/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1453032529&sr=1-1&keywords=machaut+clemencic

Both are performed with the correct scoring: 2 tenors and 2 basses.

I thought I might be interested in the recording by Clemencic, but this comment from Amazon makes it loose its appeal:

Quote
The rest comes under the rubric "La Messe de Nostre Dame" but rather than being a complete mass it is Machaut's Ordinaries mixed in with a few random hymns and religious but non-liturgical peices plus secular songs and even instrumentals. It doesn't really work for me.

Wouldn't work for me either....

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on January 29, 2016, 12:33:02 AM
Quote from: Que on January 28, 2016, 11:30:51 PM
I thought I might be interested in the recording by Clemencic, but this comment from Amazon makes it loose its appeal:

Wouldn't work for me either....

I admit that the filling up is a bit strange. But in our digital age, this does not need to compromise the recording. So I have burnt the Machaut Messe proper on a separate CDR thereby avoiding all the (in this context) unnecessary stuff.
I have done similarly with the recordings by Parrott and Ensemble Organum, because I do not possess the patience to have to listen to an abundance of chant, when I want to listen to the Machaut Messe.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 29, 2016, 12:42:09 AM
A recent purchase is a recording of Lamentations by Constanzo Festa (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costanzo_Festa)

[asin]B000V1Z03K[/asin]

Constanzo Festa (1485 - 1545) was the first major native Italian polyphonist after the domination of composers from the Netherlands in Italy and combined both styles. Despite the fact that a substantial amount of his music is preserved, recordings seem very thin on the ground. Paul van Nevel did a disc of choral music, included in the "Secret Labyrinth" box, and an instrumental one. Festa is said to be the beacon for his successors, notably Palestrina.

This is the only complete recording of the Lamentations, and despite some minor reservations I think we are lucky to have it. :)
The 11 male members of the French ensemble Scandicus (http://www.scandicus.fr/) give a dedicated, small and intimate  performance. Perhaps the ensemble work is is not the level of perfection of, say, Cinquecento, it is more than good enough. The blending of the voices is always an important issue in this kind of music, in which the way of recording also plays a role. Here the balance is a bit on the blended side, which enhances a still clear but rather smooth and mellow style. Personally I would have preferred a bit more edgy style to give the music more expression. But is is still beautifully done - intimate and touching. The music itself is pretty, though perhaps not breathtaking. Scandicus keep these predominantly homophonic works sufficiently transparent.

Recommended if specifically interested in Italian Renaissance, or in Lamentations, of course. :)

One more reservation: NO liner notes, a capital offence.... But since the label is now defunct, there is nowhere to send my angry email... ::)

And I hope that the ensemble Scandicus finds a new record company, because I'm sure sure we could expect go hear more nice things from them.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 30, 2016, 12:04:57 AM
We discussed the French ensemble Diabolus in Musica before.
This recent purchase proves to be a resounding succes:

[asin]B0086WQO9A[/asin]

Despite the name of Johannes Ockeghem shown prominently on tbe cover, his music is not here. There are however musical tributes by younger contemporaries of Johann Ockeghem in his remembrance. A mass by Jacob Obrecht and shorther compositions by De la Rue, Desprez, Busnois, and Lupus. It is a beauty, perfectly performed by Diabolus in Musica. The music has not been transposed upwars, so instead of the fleet, ethereal sound of angels in high cathedrals, we are offered the solemn piety from the Low Countries where this music originates.

Other than that, I have little to add to Giordano Bruno's comment on Amazon (excerpt):  :)

QuoteYou'll Be the One Weeping, Wailing, Crying.....
if you don't acquire this recording before it goes out of stock. It's the apex and acme of polyphonic singing, as flawless as any performance on CD. The Voix D'Or (Golden Voice) of the CD title is that of Johannes Ockeghem (?-1497), but the designation could be applied to any of the ten voices of the ensemble Diabolus in Musica. Ockeghem himself was acclaimed as a mellifluous basso profundo and the bass lines of his polyphony certainly expanded the expressive role of the lowest voices in the music of his many disciples. The male singers of Diabolus have rich, vibrant voices, perfectly suited for the tenor-centered bottom-loaded ensemble balance of "Franco-Flemish" polyphony, while the two women mezzo-sopranos sing with lovely restraint and delicacy. It's the ensemble balance, plus the sure sense of phrasing, that makes this performance exceptionally eloquent.

[...]

Jacob Obrecht's Missa Sicut Rosa Spinam is constructed around two quotations of music by Ockeghem, the bass line of the Kyrie of Ockeghem's Missa Mi-mi as well as the superius of Ockeghem's motet Intemerata Dei Mater. The four motets - by Pierre De La Rue, Josquin Desprez, Antoine Busnoys, and Johannes Lupus - are all explicit tributes or elegies to Ockeghem and include his name in their texts. Ockeghem has been credited with composing the first, or close to the first, Requiem Mass, a genre that expanded the "territory" of polyphony almost as much as the Louisiana Purchase expanded the young American Republic.

[...]


Strongly recommended!  :)

Even if the label (Aeon, now part of Alpha's Outhere Music consortium) is terribly expensive.... ::)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: KeithE on July 01, 2016, 05:21:09 AM
New poster here.

Joined the board after doing some internet searches for medieval music and finding this thread.

Loads of cool posts here but it seems to be 5 months since the last post. Has interest flagged?

My internet adventures have led me to buy some excellent cds by the likes of Jordi Savall, Anonymous 4, Sequentia, La Reverdie and Huelgas Ensemble. It would be good to see some further recommendations...?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on July 01, 2016, 08:17:18 PM
Quote from: KeithE on July 01, 2016, 05:21:09 AM
New poster here.

Joined the board after doing some internet searches for medieval music and finding this thread.

Loads of cool posts here but it seems to be 5 months since the last post. Has interest flagged?

My internet adventures have led me to buy some excellent cds by the likes of Jordi Savall, Anonymous 4, Sequentia, La Reverdie and Huelgas Ensemble. It would be good to see some further recommendations...?

Hi KeithE, welcome to the forum!  :)

There's plenty of Early Music chatter scattered throughout GMG: check out the
Listening, Composer and Great Recordings threads for regular postings in the realm of Early Music.

Just the other day, forum mod. and Early Music maven Que, posted his appreciation for this Ockeghem recording from Musica Nova ~

[asin]B0093N4DXU[/asin]

Have you heard this release?

I have not, though I do plan to rectify this in the very near future  :), but I do highly recommend this one ~

[asin]B000WC8DGY[/asin]

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: KeithE on July 01, 2016, 10:41:49 PM
Quote from: HIPster on July 01, 2016, 08:17:18 PM
Hi KeithE, welcome to the forum!  :)

There's plenty of Early Music chatter scattered throughout GMG: check out the
Listening, Composer and Great Recordings threads for regular postings in the realm of Early Music.

Just the other day, forum mod. and Early Music maven Que, posted his appreciation for this Ockeghem recording from Musica Nova ~

Have you heard this release?



Thanks very much. Not a composer or an ensemble I am familiar with but I am new to this genre. I will check both out. regards.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on July 02, 2016, 12:17:43 AM
Quote from: KeithE on July 01, 2016, 05:21:09 AM
New poster here.

Joined the board after doing some internet searches for medieval music and finding this thread.

Loads of cool posts here but it seems to be 5 months since the last post. Has interest flagged?

My internet adventures have led me to buy some excellent cds by the likes of Jordi Savall, Anonymous 4, Sequentia, La Reverdie and Huelgas Ensemble. It would be good to see some further recommendations...?

Keith, welcome to the forum!  :)  And welcome to its most sacred grounds... :D

Well, recommendations......where to start? There is whole world of centuries of music to discover.

Hipster already gave you excellent advice in the Johannes Ockeghem (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Ockeghem) recording by Musica Nova. :)

Since you expressed interest in medieval music, I would this inexpensive set with reissued superb recordings of music by Guillaume de Machaut (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillaume_de_Machaut), performed by the Ensemble Gilles Binchois.

[asin]B004QRUJJ0[/asin]
A no brainer IMO.... 8)

Another ensemble I could recommended is Diabolus in Musica.
This is a marvelous disc by them of music of composers from the Medieval School of Notre Dame (http://briancocke.com/Musiced/R-Notre.htm):

[asin]B000GRUU5W[/asin]
Q

PS A short list of recommended ensembles to follow! :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on July 02, 2016, 12:24:36 AM
And thus the buying and feeding frenzy starts!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on July 02, 2016, 12:24:46 AM
Quote from: Que on July 02, 2016, 12:17:43 AM

PS A short list of recommended ensembles to follow! :)


A short list???? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on July 02, 2016, 12:37:12 AM
Quote from: Harry's corner on July 02, 2016, 12:24:46 AM

A short list???? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Well, a NOT so short list then.... :D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on July 02, 2016, 06:20:12 AM
I posted this one back a few pages, but I continue to return to it.  Quite beautiful and moving:

[asin]B00O4DRAPW[/asin]

The new CD of Arianna Savall, Petter Udland Johansen and their ensemble Hirundo Maris is a new and outstanding approach to the music of Hildegard of Bingen. It is entirely devoted to the beauty, emotion and spiritual depth of the music of this great composer, philosopher and mystic and conveys the magic of her music in a truly affecting manner. The songs of Hildegard on this CD alternate with musical meditations newly written by Petter Udland Johansen to complement the emotional and atmospheric impact of the program.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on July 02, 2016, 06:39:05 AM
Quote from: HIPster on July 02, 2016, 06:20:12 AM
I posted this one back a few pages, but I continue to return to it.  Quite beautiful and moving:

[asin]B00O4DRAPW[/asin]

The new CD of Arianna Savall, Petter Udland Johansen and their ensemble Hirundo Maris is a new and outstanding approach to the music of Hildegard of Bingen. It is entirely devoted to the beauty, emotion and spiritual depth of the music of this great composer, philosopher and mystic and conveys the magic of her music in a truly affecting manner. The songs of Hildegard on this CD alternate with musical meditations newly written by Petter Udland Johansen to complement the emotional and atmospheric impact of the program.


I have tried it, but it is not my thing alas. Almost all that I tried in which Arianna Savall played a major role worked out disastrous for me. I always got the impression of new age music. And I do not like the way they tamper with the music. I like my Hildegard von Bingen pure. But I understand it might appeal to many. :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: KeithE on July 04, 2016, 03:45:51 AM
Quote from: Que on July 02, 2016, 12:17:43 AM
Keith, welcome to the forum!  :)  And welcome to its most sacred grounds... :D

Well, recommendations......where to start? There is whole world of centuries of music to discover.

Hipster already gave you excellent advice in the Johannes Ockeghem (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Ockeghem) recording by Musica Nova. :)

Since you expressed interest in medieval music, I would this inexpensive set with reissued superb recordings of music by Guillaume de Machaut (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillaume_de_Machaut), performed by the Ensemble Gilles Binchois.

[asin]B004QRUJJ0[/asin]
A no brainer IMO.... 8)

Another ensemble I could recommended is Diabolus in Musica.
This is a marvelous disc by them of music of composers from the Medieval School of Notre Dame (http://briancocke.com/Musiced/R-Notre.htm):

[asin]B000GRUU5W[/asin]
Q

PS A short list of recommended ensembles to follow! :)

Thanks. I already have those two, inspired by some pre-joining browsing of this thread, but that's exactly the kind of stuff I have in mind. k
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: KeithE on July 04, 2016, 03:47:13 AM
Quote from: The new erato on July 02, 2016, 12:24:36 AM
And thus the buying and feeding frenzy starts!

I fear you may be right. I may need to have a word with my bank manager!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on July 04, 2016, 09:19:22 AM
Quote from: KeithE on July 04, 2016, 03:45:51 AM
Thanks. I already have those two, inspired by some pre-joining browsing of this thread, but that's exactly the kind of stuff I have in mind. k

You browsed wisely... :D

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on September 05, 2016, 04:48:24 PM
NEW FROM HYPERION : MACHAUT AND CONDUCTUS (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2016/09/05/new-from-hyperion-machaut-and-conductus/)

(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571281032.png) (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571281155.png)

A couple of recent and noteworthy recordings from Hyperion: more Machaut by The Orlando Consort, and the final installment from John Potter, Christopher O'Gorman and Rogers Covey-Crump, of the Conductus genre, the first experiments towards polyphony—the kind of sound we associate with Pérotin.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on September 05, 2016, 05:06:09 PM
Welcome back
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on September 05, 2016, 07:18:59 PM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on September 05, 2016, 05:06:09 PM
Welcome back

Thanks.

;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on September 06, 2016, 11:55:33 AM
Guillaume Du Fay: The Tenor Masses (Les messes à teneur) (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2016/09/06/guillaume-du-fay-the-tenor-masses-les-messes-a-teneur/)
Jesse Rodin and Cut Circle

(http://cutcircle.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Du-Fay-cover-e1457116045359.jpg)

Cut Circle is a group new to me, they are an all male, OVPP group (perfect, IMO).  These four late-career DuFay masses receive an excellent new recording.

From a trusted Amazon reviewer:
QuoteThe editions are by Rodin himself. He retains mixed key signatures, doesn't avoid cross relations too much, and slightly rewrites a passage in Missa "L'homme arme" at the phrase "in remissionem peccatorum". This rewrite is actually something I don't like; I suspect he found some sort of a source with the passage in that form, but honestly it's just not as good as the way in which it's usually done. Otherwise though, I think Rodin has done a great job as far as I can tell.

The chosen tempos vary, but they never plod. Cut Circle take Missa "Se la face ay pale" exactly as fast as Chiaroscuro in every movement, which is faster than other groups, and a lot faster than Diablous in Musica. I have to say I like this fast tempo, and it's great we have two so different but great performances of this mass in these tempi.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on September 11, 2016, 02:57:36 AM
Quote from: Que on September 11, 2016, 01:46:01 AM
My morning listening:

[asin]B0000634YO[/asin]
Getting more Palestrina is still on my to do list....
Palestrina has been popular amongst British ensembles, but that's not my cup of tea...
Which currently brings down the number of eligible candidates considerably.
There is a real need for more excellent Italian Renaissance choral ensembles, like De Labyrintho, to fill the gaps here...
As in Baroque, the Italian are late to the party....but are bound to make a impressive entrance

Q

Sergio Vartolo; Soloisti di San Petronio recorded three volumes of masses in the 1990s, but as far as I can tell on the last two made it to CD. 

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51FTN1HGAXL.jpg)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on September 11, 2016, 03:07:06 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on September 11, 2016, 02:57:36 AM
Sergio Vartolo; Soloisti di San Petronio recorded three volumes of masses in the 1990s, but as far as I can tell on the last two made it to CD. 

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51FTN1HGAXL.jpg)

They seem to have been reissued by Naxos:



[asin]B0000014DE[/asin][asin]B00004VXDN[/asin][asin]B000009IMY[/asin]

Unfortunately responses do not seem to be favourable, nor was my own impression upon sampling...
Old fasioned approach and not so well executed....
But then again, I am definitely not a Vartolo fan.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on September 11, 2016, 03:15:01 AM
De gustibus non disputandum est ...

;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on September 11, 2016, 07:21:04 AM
Quote from: Que on September 11, 2016, 01:46:01 AM
My morning listening:

[asin]B0000634YO[/asin]
Getting more Palestrina is still on my to do list....
Palestrina has been popular amongst British ensembles, but that's not my cup of tea...
Which currently brings down the number of eligible candidates considerably.
There is a real need for more excellent Italian Renaissance choral ensembles, like De Labyrintho, to fill the gaps here...
As in Baroque, the Italian are late to the party....but are bound to make a impressive entrance

Q

Concerto Italiano has a madrigal recording.  Originally on the Tactus label, this one has been reissued as a part of that label's white series:

[asin]B00M7CEXFC[/asin]

And on Brilliant:

[asin]B0011UFTC2[/asin]

Gio review!  ;)

I am all for De Labyrintho releasing some Palestrina too!  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on September 11, 2016, 08:16:57 AM
Quote from: HIPster on September 11, 2016, 07:21:04 AM
Concerto Italiano has a madrigal recording.  Originally on the Tactus label, this one has been reissued as a part of that label's white series:

[asin]B00M7CEXFC[/asin]

And on Brilliant:

[asin]B0011UFTC2[/asin]

Gio review!  ;)

I am all for De Labyrintho releasing some Palestrina too!  :)

Thank you!  :)
I was not aware of that recording, am definitely interested.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on September 12, 2016, 12:17:57 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on September 06, 2016, 11:55:33 AM
Guillaume Du Fay: The Tenor Masses (Les messes à teneur) (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2016/09/06/guillaume-du-fay-the-tenor-masses-les-messes-a-teneur/)
Jesse Rodin and Cut Circle

(http://cutcircle.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Du-Fay-cover-e1457116045359.jpg)

Cut Circle is a group new to me, they are an all male, OVPP group (perfect, IMO).  These four late-career DuFay masses receive an excellent new recording.

From a trusted Amazon reviewer:

Do you have that recording?  :)
I was quite impressed by their previous recording for Musique en Wallonie:

[asin]B009VPETE8[/asin]

My previous comments HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg815996.html#msg815996).
My only regret is that not the entire album was dedicated to Marbrianus de Orto.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on September 12, 2016, 02:27:05 AM
Quote from: Que on September 12, 2016, 12:17:57 AM
Do you have that recording?  :)
I was quite impressed by their previous recording for Musique en Wallonie:

[asin]B009VPETE8[/asin]

My previous comments HERE (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3732.msg815996.html#msg815996).
My only regret is that not the entire album was dedicated to Marbrianus de Orto.

Q

Yes, I bought a download which didn't include the booklet, which is bothersome.  I agree with you that they are not quite on the level of Stimmwerck or Cinquecento, but it is great to have these masses done with a small, which I had thought was all male but has two female voices that sound like boys so much they fooled me, group.  I also had originally thought they were OVPP but, they are an 8 member group who slims down to individual voices for a section here and there.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on September 12, 2016, 11:52:08 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on September 12, 2016, 02:27:05 AM
Yes, I bought a download which didn't include the booklet, which is bothersome.  I agree with you that they are not quite on the level of Stimmwerck or Cinquecento, but it is great to have these masses done with a small, which I had thought was all male but has two female voices that sound like boys so much they fooled me, group.  I also had originally thought they were OVPP but, they are an 8 member group who slims down to individual voices for a section here and there.

I think they are close and will get there. The booklets/packaging by this label are really worthwhile! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on October 16, 2016, 12:45:23 AM
Since I'm slowly digesting the six volumes of series The Leiden Choirbooks on the Dutch label EtCetera, I wil be posting my impressions here - starting with Volume I.  :)

Some background information on the project:

For over four hundred years the city of Leiden has held a hidden treasure of immense musical value. Hardly anyone knew of its existence, even in Leiden itself. The six enormous choirbooks were compiled for the singers of the 16th-century College of the Seven Canonical Hours of the Pieterskerk (St. Peter's Church). Each volume of the series is dedicated to one of these six books that are the largest homogenous collection of polyphony in Europe. Together they represent a rare legacy, and form one of the largest comprehensive collections of 16th century religious music.

There are 20 singers in total: the male Egidius Quartet and in its, for the occasion of this project extended version, the Egidius College, which has 4 female singers. The music is sung at either one or two voices per part. Some of the latter by a mixed ensemble with female voices.



[asin]B003XKDFAG[/asin][asin]B00YJKUZ1Q[/asin]

Each volume has two discs. The 1st disc here has a mixed selection of motets by Franco-Flemish and Dutch composers: Thomas Crequillon, Benedictus Appenzeller, Joachimus de Monte, Johannes Cleeff, Christan Hollander and Johannes de Richafort.  On the 2nd disc there are two masses: the Missa beati omnes by Nicolas Gombert and the anonymous 6-part Missa Santa Maria.

What can say?... that won't already be covered by Stephen Midgley's extensive and excellent review (https://www.amazon.com/review/RYSLSOFRAT43X/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B003XKDFAG) on Amazon? :)

I think the selection of motets is wonderful, with Thomas Crequillon and Johannes Richafort expectedly taking pride of place. But the featured "lesser knowns" are really interesting - some gems right there. I quite enjoyed the performance of the mass by Nicolas Gombert: nicely sober, transparent and earthy. A good antidote to overly bright ( transposed upwards) or overly populated  performances. Or interpretations that go overboard with indivualised, emotional expression and psychology, like the ensemble The Sound and the Fury tends to do. The style of Egidius is more similar to the (also Dutch) Gesualdo Consort, known for their Sweelinck series, or the Flemish Huelgas Ensemble.
The anonymous mas on the 2nd disc is wonderful and actually one of the most significant pieces of the series.
Performances are outstanding, though they will improve throughout the series.

Johan van Veen's review of volume I: http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/Etcetera_KTC1410.html

His MusicWeb review of volumes I - III: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/Feb13/Leiden_choirbooks_v123_KTC1410.htm

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on October 16, 2016, 02:59:19 AM
Quote from: Que on October 16, 2016, 12:45:23 AM
Since I'm slowly digesting the six volumes of series The Leiden Choirbooks on the Dutch label EtCetera, I wil be posting my impressions here - starting with Volume I.  :)

Some background information on the project:

For over four hundred years the city of Leiden has held a hidden treasure of immense musical value. Hardly anyone knew of its existence, even in Leiden itself. The six enormous choirbooks were compiled for the singers of the 16th-century College of the Seven Canonical Hours of the Pieterskerk (St. Peter's Church). Each volume of the series is dedicated to one of these six books that are the largest homogenous collection of polyphony in Europe. Together they represent a rare legacy, and form one of the largest comprehensive collections of 16th century religious music.

There are 20 singers in total: the male Egidius Quartet and in its, for the occasion of this project extended version, the Egidius College, which has 4 female singers. The music is sung at either one or two voices per part. Some of the latter by a mixed ensemble with female voices.



[asin]B003XKDFAG[/asin][asin]B00YJKUZ1Q[/asin]

Each volume has two discs. The 1st disc here has a mixed selection of motets by Franco-Flemish and Dutch composers: Thomas Crequillon, Benedictus Appenzeller, Joachimus de Monte, Johannes Cleeff, Christan Hollander and Johannes de Richafort.  On the 2nd disc there are two masses: the Missa beati omnes by Nicolas Gombert and the anonymous 6-part Missa Santa Maria.

What can say?... that won't already be covered by Stephen Midgley's extensive and excellent review (https://www.amazon.com/review/RYSLSOFRAT43X/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B003XKDFAG) on Amazon? :)

I think the selection of motets is wonderful, with Thomas Crequillon and Johannes Richafort expectedly taking pride of place. But the featured "lesser knowns" are really interesting - some gems right there. I quite enjoyed the performance of the mass by Nicolas Gombert: nicely sober, transparent and earthy. A good antidote to overly bright ( transposed upwards) or overly populated  performances. Or interpretations that go overboard with indivualised, emotional expression and psychology, like the ensemble The Sound and the Fury tends to do. The style of Egidius is more similar to the (also Dutch) Gesualdo Consort, known for their Sweelinck series, or the Flemish Huelgas Ensemble.
The anonymous mas on the 2nd disc is wonderful and actually one of the most significant pieces of the series.
Performances are outstanding, though they will improve throughout the series.

Johan van Veen's review of volume I: http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/Etcetera_KTC1410.html

His MusicWeb review of volumes I - III: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/Feb13/Leiden_choirbooks_v123_KTC1410.htm

Q

Thanks for the overview.  Can you guestimate what percentage of the works are done by the male group a/o/t the larger mixed ensemble?  I vastly prefer all male small vocal ensembles, OVPP if possible.  If the majority of the works are done with this group, it is a no-brainer for my collection.

;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on October 16, 2016, 03:38:39 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on October 16, 2016, 02:59:19 AM
Thanks for the overview.  Can you guestimate what percentage of the works are done by the male group a/o/t the larger mixed ensemble?  I vastly prefer all male small vocal ensembles, OVPP if possible.  If the majority of the works are done with this group, it is a no-brainer for my collection.

;)

Thanks.  :) In general I actually share your preference.

Let me firstly emphasize that for these performances the scores were not transposed upwards British style, and are therefore not "soprano heavy". This also means that female singers are only featured for the upper voices when the (original) score calls for it - many of the works that are sung by the extended ensemble do not feature female voices. For instance, on this volume the performance of the Gombert mass features two female singers, the six-part anonymous mass none.... The same goes for the motets.

It is hard to put numbers on it, but I think well over half of the total features female voices.
I think roughly a third of the total is sung OVPP, wich includes works that are over 4 parts.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on October 16, 2016, 03:45:24 AM
Quote from: Que on October 16, 2016, 03:38:39 AM
Thanks.  :) In general I actually share your preference.

Let me firstly emphasize that for these performances the scores were not transposed upwards British style, and are therefore not "soprano heavy". This also means that female singers are only featured for the upper voices when the (original) score calls for it - many of the works that are sung by the extended ensemble do not feature female voices. For instance, on this volume the performance of the Gombert mass features two female singers, the six-part anonymous mass none.... The same goes for the motets.

It is hard to put numbers on it, but I think well over half of the total features female voices.
I think roughly a third of the total is sung OVPP, wich includes works that are over 4 parts.

Q

Thanks.  Looks like my Wishlist will have a new occupant.  I can tolerate female voices easier if they sound like countertenors.  Although I appreciate the English style more than you, I tend to prefer lower voices and a generally rougher style.

;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on October 23, 2016, 12:43:30 AM
Quote from: The new erato on October 22, 2016, 12:02:11 AM
It's a superb set. Some variation in the performances, but the repertoire, packaging, everything is grade A++

My comments on volume II of the Leiden Choirbooks

[asin]B0051ST14W[/asin]

The angle of this series is clearly to uncover and give exposure to as much unique and unknown repertoire as possible. I think one's attraction to an extensive set like this depends on how intensive and deep you want to explore this particular Franco-Flemish repertoire of the late 14th and 1st half 15 centuries that was sung in the Netherlands. There is much that is worthwhile amongst the lesser known composers and the multiple anonymous pieces that are included. Some are truly magnificent but all pieces are worthy of hearing. The (anonymous) hymns accompanied by Georgian Chant included in this 2nd disc are a good example in point: not must-hear masterpieces but superbly done and charming. They complete the picture of musical life in those days.

Quite some wonderful music by Clemens non Papa in this volume of motets, magnificats and polyphonic hymn settings. Other highlights are a motets by Iosquin Baston, Philippe Verdelot and Jean Richafort.

Amazon review by Stephen Midgley: More hidden renaissance treasures (https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RLQCJOU9TPZYK/).

MusicWeb review: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/Feb13/Leiden_choirbooks_v123_KTC1410.htm

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on November 05, 2016, 01:27:34 AM
My comments on  volume III of the Leiden Choirbooks:



[asin]B006WG3U2Q[/asin][asin]B00YJKUZ1Q[/asin]

I stand my earlier assessment that this volume sounds vocally a step up from the two previous ones. The choir achieved a higher level of integration.
The opening piece on disc 1 is a breath taking motet by Clemens non Papa, a composer well represented in these manuscripts.

Disc 2 contains two masses. The 1st is the six-part  Missa pastores loquebantur by Cornelius Canis (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Canis) aka Cornelius d'Hondt, who was choir master in the Flemish city of Gent, where he succeeded JHeronimus Vinders - whose music is also featured in this series. Later he succeeded Thomas Crequillon at the court of Holy Roman emperor Charles V. The Egidius devoted an entire album to Cornelius d'Hondt before. Anyway, it is a very nice piece indeed. The 2nd mass is an anonymous, 4-part Requiem mass, which requires attentive listening due to its rather subdued character but is one of the many highlights in the series..  :)

Quote "Music to die for" by Stephen Midgley
The superb quality of the first two volumes in this ground-breaking series of the six Leiden Choirbooks, in both music and performance, may well lead some renaissance fans to wonder whether the series can possibly maintain such high standards. Well, fear not - from the opening bars of the very first item here, any such doubts are immediately laid to rest.
Read the rest of te review HERE (https://www.amazon.com/review/R2YH6V6X431IYG/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B006WG3U2Q)

MusicWeb review: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2013/Feb13/Leiden_choirbooks_v123_KTC1410.htm

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on November 05, 2016, 01:34:17 AM
Quote from: Que on October 16, 2016, 03:38:39 AM
Thanks.  :) In general I actually share your preference.

Let me firstly emphasize that for these performances the scores were not transposed upwards British style, and are therefore not "soprano heavy". This also means that female singers are only featured for the upper voices when the (original) score calls for it - many of the works that are sung by the extended ensemble do not feature female voices. For instance, on this volume the performance of the Gombert mass features two female singers, the six-part anonymous mass none.... The same goes for the motets.

It is hard to put numbers on it, but I think well over half of the total features female voices.
I think roughly a third of the total is sung OVPP, wich includes works that are over 4 parts.

Q


The complete set is on my orderlist. You are responsable Que >:D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on November 05, 2016, 01:42:15 AM
Quote from: Que on October 16, 2016, 03:38:39 AM


Let me firstly emphasize that for these performances the scores were not transposed upwards British style, and are therefore not "soprano heavy".
Q

That for me is the main reason to buy the complete set!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on November 05, 2016, 03:27:55 AM
Quote from: Harry's corner on November 05, 2016, 01:34:17 AM

The complete set is on my orderlist. You are responsable Que >:D

WOW..... :D Hope you found a good price.  :)

The set is €80 is at Amazon IT.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on November 05, 2016, 03:32:43 AM
Quote from: Que on November 05, 2016, 03:27:55 AM
WOW..... :D Hope you found a good price.  :)

The set is €80 is at Amazon IT.

Q

I go there! Thank you.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on December 03, 2016, 04:57:43 AM
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on December 03, 2016, 02:35:45 AM
Ok, so most that know me around here will know me as a passionate modernist fan, but for quite a while I've had an interest in early music, especially Renaissance.

So far I love some various works by: Palestrina, Tallis, Petrotin, Gombert and Monteverdi.
I'm wondering, what are some of your most reccommend early works I check out?

Thanks!!  :D


Alien
Dufay: isorhythmic motets (Huelgas ensemble's recording)
Richafort's Requiem (Cinquecento on Hyperion)
Josquin des Prez (Nymphes des bois, Miserere - also the Cinquecento disc with the Richafort..)
Gesualdo's madrigals
Marenzio's madrigals
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on December 03, 2016, 05:32:30 AM
Machaut - Messe de Notre Dame (Ensemble Gilles Binchois)
Ecole de Notre Dame: Mass for Christmas Day (Ensemble Organum)
Dufay - Isorhythmic Motets (Huelgas Ensemble)
Busnois - Missa L'Homme Arme (The Binchois Consort)
Ockeghem - Requiem (Ensemble Organum)
Desprez - Missa Pangue Lingua (Ensemble Clement Janequin)
Desprez - Missa Hercules Dux Ferrariae, Miserere (De Labyrintho)
Escobar - Requiem (Ensemble Gilles Binchois)
Victoria - Requiem (Gabrieli Consort)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on December 03, 2016, 12:19:40 PM
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on December 03, 2016, 02:35:45 AM
Ok, so most that know me around here will know me as a passionate modernist fan, but for quite a while I've had an interest in early music, especially Renaissance.

This syndrome (modern music fan who also digs early music) is pretty common. Those centuries in between are so boring and predictable, eh?  ;)

Anyway, I strongly recommend you get hold of the two anthologies led by David Munrow, The Art of Courtly Love and The Art of the Netherlands. Both of them are great pioneering early music anthologies.

Especially Courtly Love, which contains the album "14th Century Avant Garde," amazingly wacky music by composers associated with the Papal court of Avignon. Nothing else like it!

I also endorse the recommendations of North Star and Drasko. To Ockeghem's Requiem, I would add his Missa Prolationum, one of the most compositionally rigorous "proto-avant garde" pieces in existence.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on December 03, 2016, 04:40:37 PM
Hi Alien.  :)

Many excellent recommendations here.  I'll add a few ~

Perotin/Leonin
[asin]B000025ZXO[/asin]

Gesualdo (6th book of Madrigals)
[asin]B004EVNPIK[/asin]

Monteverdi
[asin]B001KYJA6K[/asin]

These three are desert island recordings for me.

Cheers!  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 03, 2016, 04:56:51 PM
All the previous recommendations are good.  Here's some that are very good box sets available on streaming services

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61aib27b%2B5L._SX425_.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61nPffAN5gL._SX425_.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61r0Cv3X3QL._SS500.jpg)

Machaut : Sacred and Secular Music
Victoria : Sacred Works
The Flowering of the Renaissance Choral Music


The Machaut set will have a different recording of the Messe which will provide a nice contrast to the one you've already heard.

Also, some ensembles to seek out (some of which have already been suggested): Orlando Consort; The Sound and the Fury; Cinquecento; Stimmwerck

;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on December 03, 2016, 05:07:54 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on December 03, 2016, 04:56:51 PM

The Flowering of the Renaissance Choral Music


;)

I recommend pretty much anything done by Pro Cantione Antiqua. I really like their more fervent, emotional approach. Also, they tend to add instrumental support, which is something I also prefer.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on December 04, 2016, 01:49:50 AM
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on December 03, 2016, 02:35:45 AM
Ok, so most that know me around here will know me as a passionate modernist fan, but for quite a while I've had an interest in early music, especially Renaissance.

So far I love some various works by: Palestrina, Tallis, Petrotin, Gombert and Monteverdi.
I'm wondering, what are some of your most reccommend early works I check out?

Thanks!!  :D

Alien

Well, most of the really big names have already been mentioned: Machaut, Dufay, Desprez (Des Prez),  Ockeghem.

Missing is Lassus aka Orlando di Lasso.
Those are his Latinized and Italianized names - he was born in the Southern Netherlands as Roland de Lâtre.

Some suggestions to start off:

[asin]B00LI2L6IY[/asin]
[asin]B00K1Q3VIG[/asin]
[asin]B001KALT68[/asin]
Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on December 04, 2016, 02:48:54 AM
I'd also suggest this Lasso disc ;)
[asin]B001S86JAS[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on December 04, 2016, 04:37:24 AM
Quote from: North Star on December 04, 2016, 02:48:54 AM
I'd also suggest this Lasso disc ;)
[asin]B001S86JAS[/asin]

Oh, definitely!! Forgot to mention that one... :D

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on December 04, 2016, 06:16:27 AM
Quote from: North Star on December 04, 2016, 02:48:54 AM
I'd also suggest this Lasso disc ;)
[asin]B001S86JAS[/asin]

Oh definitely!  ;)

Quote from: Que on December 04, 2016, 01:49:50 AM
Well, most of the really big names have already been mentioned: Machaut, Dufay, Desprez (Des Prez),  Ockeghem.

Missing is Lassus aka Orlando di Lasso.
Those are his Latinized and Italianized names - he was born in the Southern Netherlands as Roland de Lâtre.

Some suggestions to start off:

[asin]B00LI2L6IY[/asin]
[asin]B00K1Q3VIG[/asin]
[asin]B001KALT68[/asin]
Q

These too!  ;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on December 10, 2016, 01:09:26 AM
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on December 03, 2016, 12:19:40 PM
This syndrome (modern music fan who also digs early music) is pretty common.
Perhaps because they both often are composed based upon pretty rigid constructuional principles, with slight regard for "harmony"?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on December 10, 2016, 03:38:30 AM
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on December 10, 2016, 12:30:43 AM
I sure love Perotin, Gesualdo, Machaut and Monteverdi  8)

Welcome to the Club, then!  :)

Quote from: The new erato on December 10, 2016, 01:09:26 AM
Perhaps because they both often are composed based upon pretty rigid constructuional principles, with slight regard for "harmony"?

During my student years I worked in the Classical department of a large record store, and during that time I also noticed that people with a preference for modern & contemporary music frequently developed a taste for Early Music as well.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 28, 2016, 10:26:02 PM
Hello gentlemen.

I want to find out more about Ockeghem, but there aren't many books that I can see, either in English or in French. In fact the only one I've been able to find is Krenek's. How technical (as apposite to "music appreciation") is Kerenk's book? It's very old, is it too old to be valid?

And have I missed anything? Surely there must be other books.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mahlerian on December 29, 2016, 04:55:05 AM
Quote from: The new erato on December 10, 2016, 01:09:26 AM
Perhaps because they both often are composed based upon pretty rigid constructuional principles, with slight regard for "harmony"?

Because they both are primarily non-tonal, modulation is really not an important part of either.  I feel that modulation really became elevated to a constructional principle with the classical era, though of course the movement to the dominant and back is an integral aspect of Baroque music.

Monteverdi is usually considered early Baroque, but his music has a lot of modal flavor in its harmony, and is still a far cry from the much more streamlined tonal system to follow by the end of the 17th century.  I loved every second of this collection, and recommend it:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81iUo%2BaO9SL._SX425_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 29, 2016, 06:04:56 AM
Quote from: Mahlerian on December 29, 2016, 04:55:05 AM
Because they both are primarily non-tonal, modulation is really not an important part of either.  I feel that modulation really became elevated to a constructional principle with the classical era, though of course the movement to the dominant and back is an integral aspect of Baroque music.

Monteverdi is usually considered early Baroque, but his music has a lot of modal flavor in its harmony, and is still a far cry from the much more streamlined tonal system to follow by the end of the 17th century.  I loved every second of this collection, and recommend it:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81iUo%2BaO9SL._SX425_.jpg)

I blow hot and cold about Monteverdi. When I was into opera I enjoyed them, especially Incoronazzione, both in the opera house and in the films that Ponnele made. And I've enjoyed the St Mark Vespers in concert, and the St Giovanni Verspers in Leonhardt's recording.

But my main reason for posting is to say that, for reasons I'm not at all clear about, I've been really enjoying the madrigals on Naxos, the recordings by Marco Longhini. I paricularly like the first four books - but this may just reflect a sort of anti-operatic taste that I've developed for no good reason. They're well worth checking out I would say.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 29, 2016, 06:09:20 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 29, 2016, 06:04:56 AM
But my main reason for posting is to say that, for reasons I'm not at all clear about, I've been really enjoying the madrigals on Naxos, the recordings by Marco Longhini. Well worth checking out I would say.

If you are referring to the Gesualdo recordings, I agree completely. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 29, 2016, 06:15:44 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 28, 2016, 10:26:02 PM
Hello gentlemen.

I want to find out more about Ockeghem, but there aren't many books that I can see, either in English or in French. In fact the only one I've been able to find is Krenek's. How technical (as apposite to "music appreciation") is Kerenk's book? It's very old, is it too old to be valid?

And have I missed anything? Surely there must be other books.

I checked the bibliography at the end of the Grove article on Ockeghem (btw, it is entitled Jean de Ockeghem, not Johannes): Unfortunately most of the material is in specialist journal articles (there are a couple of books, which are not found outside of large libraries, and not in English - if that makes a difference). 

There does not appear to be a general book on the "life and music" for the non-specialist, other then the one by Krenek from the 1950s.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 29, 2016, 06:20:31 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on December 29, 2016, 06:09:20 AM
If you are referring to the Gesualdo recordings, I agree completely.

No, the Monty, but I'll give the Gesualdo a try soon.

Quote from: sanantonio on December 29, 2016, 06:15:44 AM
I checked the bibliography at the end of the Grove article on Ockeghem (btw, it is entitled Jean de Ockeghem, not Johannes): Unfortunately most of the material is in specialist journal articles (there are a couple of books, which are not found outside of large libraries, and not in English - if that makes a difference). 

There does not appear to be a general book on the "life and music" for the non-specialist, other then the one by Krenek from the 1950s.

Cheers, I'll buy Krenek's book, it's not expensive.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 03, 2017, 08:41:38 AM
Don't tell my wife but I am seriously considering purchasing this

The Ferrell-Vogüé Machaut MS (http://www.oxforduniversitystores.co.uk/product-catalogue/music-faculty-diamm/music-faculty-diamm-publications/the-ferrellvog-machaut-ms)

(http://cdn-edu.wpmhost.net/53544f/d17a61123a/BACF-97F9-9F9B-9285-2154.jpg)

Produced as two volumes in a slip case:

Volume 1: Introductory study (232 pp. colour and b/w)

Volume 2: Full size facsimile (796 pp. Full colour)

This publication weighs in excess of 7 kilograms. Postage and packing to the United Kingdom is free, to all other destinations £45. 

This is one of the most important sources for the works of Guillaume de Machaut, and thanks to the generosity of its owners, James E and Elizabeth J Ferrell, it has gone from being the most secret and enigmatic of the Machaut sources to the most accessible, and is the first to be produced in facsimile.

Given today's exchange rate, it would cost nearly $700.00 with postage.

Still ... I've been burned in the past by debating whether to purchase something like this only to see it go nearly out of print and prices rising to extraordinary heights.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on January 03, 2017, 09:41:20 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on January 03, 2017, 08:41:38 AM
Don't tell my wife but I am seriously considering purchasing this

The Ferrell-Vogüé Machaut MS (http://www.oxforduniversitystores.co.uk/product-catalogue/music-faculty-diamm/music-faculty-diamm-publications/the-ferrellvog-machaut-ms)

(http://cdn-edu.wpmhost.net/53544f/d17a61123a/BACF-97F9-9F9B-9285-2154.jpg)

Produced as two volumes in a slip case:

Volume 1: Introductory study (232 pp. colour and b/w)

Volume 2: Full size facsimile (796 pp. Full colour)

This publication weighs in excess of 7 kilograms. Postage and packing to the United Kingdom is free, to all other destinations £45. 

This is one of the most important sources for the works of Guillaume de Machaut, and thanks to the generosity of its owners, James E and Elizabeth J Ferrell, it has gone from being the most secret and enigmatic of the Machaut sources to the most accessible, and is the first to be produced in facsimile.

Given today's exchange rate, it would cost nearly $700.00 with postage.

Still ... I've been burned in the past by debating whether to purchase something like this only to see it go nearly out of print and prices rising to extraordinary heights.

Wow, I am sure that would be a magnificent set and I wish you the very best if you do decide to go ahead with it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 03, 2017, 10:10:40 AM
I've tried to read some of the images of the manuscripts on the web, but it's a struggle, partly because I'm not used to the handwriting, and partly because the old French is a bit weird. Still I don't feel as though it's as far removed from modern French as Chaucer from English, and I can read Chaucer, or I could years ago. I bet it wouldn't take much to learn how to read the writing in those manuscripts too. I once met a curator of French medieval manuscripts at The Bodlean. Her spoken French was not very good, but she could read those things!

Every Machaut poem I've read in CD booklets has been fun, and I'd quite like to dip into Le Voir Dit a bit more seriously some time. I really should hunt around for a version in modern French. There's one published by Livre de Poche, I'll be in Paris next week for a couple of days, I'll see if I can pick up a copy.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 03, 2017, 10:25:29 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 03, 2017, 10:10:40 AM
I've tried to read some of the images of the manuscripts on the web, but it's a struggle, partly because I'm not used to the handwriting, and partly because the old French is a bit weird. Still I don't feel as though it's as far removed from modern French as Chaucer from English, and I can read Chaucer, or I could years ago. I bet it wouldn't take much to learn how to read the writing in those manuscripts too. I once met a curator of French medieval manuscripts at The Bodlean. Her spoken French was not very good, but she could read those things!

Every Machaut poem I've read in CD booklets has been fun, and I'd quite like to dip into Le Voir Dit a bit more seriously some time. I really should hunt around for a version in modern French. There's one published by Livre de Poche, I'll be in Paris next week for a couple of days, I'll see if I can pick up a copy.

I wouldn't even consider purchasing the facsimile without knowing that there is already the first volume of The Complete Poetry and Music of Guillaume de Machaut (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1580442528/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER) with the French originals and facing English translations published.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51qmnZW8Q3L._SX401_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

I think there are to be two volumes, each $30.00, and I would purchase these as well so that I could make sense of the texts.  But I am more interested in the notated music.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on January 04, 2017, 01:30:07 PM
Cross post from the main Listening thread


First listen
[asin]B01K68F27G[/asin]
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/8169kDUMcBL.jpg)
The original manuscript has 43 songs, seventeen of which are performed here, with two arrangements by Johannes Tinctoris (c. 1530/1535-1511).  The songs are played in a diversity of ways: a capella, one or more voices with instruments, all instruments.
The result is effective for me.
Singers, one of whom is female (I think. Northern/Central European names can sometimes be very unisex to my Anglophone ears)
Els Janssens-Vanmunster
Raitis Grigalis
Matthias Spoerry
Instruments
Elisabeth Rumsey viola d'arco
Baptiste Romain vielle and lira da braccio
Marc Lewon (director) viola d'arco, gittern, plectrum lute
BTW, an exact facsimile of the manuscript has been published in Spain. List price is noted at €3000
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on January 05, 2017, 01:21:15 PM
I am currently listening to this and I was wondering if any people more knowledgeable about this kind of music could perhaps tell me a little more about the style. I am curious as to the fact that there is instrumental accompaniment on this when I actually didn't expect that so much. Is that common for this music? In my limited understanding of early music, instrumental music was rarely written down like vocal (and especially sacred) music was.........although I might be wrong.

Quote from: jessop on January 05, 2017, 01:15:42 PM
Some things I currently want to learn more about. I love this kind of music :)

(https://d3rt1990lpmkn.cloudfront.net/640/d1bede3372a6ce829a85c26b148a352fa825b2f1)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mahlerian on January 05, 2017, 01:36:24 PM
Quote from: jessop on January 05, 2017, 01:21:15 PM
I am currently listening to this and I was wondering if any people more knowledgeable about this kind of music could perhaps tell me a little more about the style. I am curious as to the fact that there is instrumental accompaniment on this when I actually didn't expect that so much. Is that common for this music? In my limited understanding of early music, instrumental music was rarely written down like vocal (and especially sacred) music was.........although I might be wrong.

Instruments were often used to double or replace vocal parts in both Medieval and Renaissance secular music, though church music remained primarily a capella (which is what that term means).

Whether to do this and which instruments to use are up to the individual performers, and this remains true up through early Monteverdi.

Incidentally, I love that set.  Beautiful music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 05, 2017, 05:23:30 PM
Les Escholiers De Paris : Motets, Songs & Estampies Of The Thirteenth Century (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2017/01/05/les-escholiers-de-paris-motets-songs-estampies-of-the-thirteenth-century/)

(https://musicakaleidoscope.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/hcd-9245.jpg)

A great recording from 1992 by Dominique Vellard and the Ensemble Gilles Binchois, and one that is not that well known. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 06, 2017, 02:21:24 AM
Anthologie chantee des Troubadours XIIe and XIIIe siecles (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2017/01/06/troubadours-trouveres-anthologie-chantee-des-troubadours-xiie-and-xiiie-siecles/)

(http://www.troubadours-ensemble.com/images/stories/4-discographie.png)

The 248 songs of the troubadours identified here are recreated and recorded in a lively and original artistic approach that takes into account the latest work on the interpretation of medieval Occitan lyrics and interpreting medieval notation.  Troba Vox Editions is a label devoted to the music of the Troubadours Art Ensemble  and other groups specializing in this music.  The recordings are distributed by Abeille Musique, and available for streaming on Qobuz.Com and the Naxos Music Library.


Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 07, 2017, 05:24:43 AM
Quote from: Mahlerian on January 05, 2017, 01:36:24 PM
though church music remained primarily a capella (which is what that term means).


Shall we look at this can of worms?  Does anyone know if what Mahlerian says here is the case, and what the evidence is?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on January 07, 2017, 02:34:34 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 07, 2017, 05:24:43 AM
Shall we look at this can of worms?  Does anyone know if what Mahlerian says here is the case, and what the evidence is?
Church music remained of the church because that is what church music is ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 07, 2017, 02:41:24 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 07, 2017, 05:24:43 AM
Shall we look at this can of worms?  Does anyone know if what Mahlerian says here is the case, and what the evidence is?

Because the church prohibited instruments other than organ, and that was only played in between sung sections, not with the singers, they were not used throughout the Medieval period and even well into the Renaissance.  I think for a significant amount of time after still only the organ was used.  I am not sure when other instruments were used in liturgical settings.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 07, 2017, 03:55:31 PM
Apropos the discussion of instruments use in church music during the Middle Ages -

machaut : la messe de nostre dame
rene clemencic | clemencic consort

(http://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/12/92/42/38/6port449.jpg)

From what I gather from listening to the recording, since I can't read the Japanese notes, Clemencic is trying to present the work within a realistic context of the day of the mass:


An unusual but interesting method of presenting the mass - but I would vastly have preferred that the instrumental playing between the sung mass sections have been organ-only and not included peasant dance music which is completely against what would have occurred in the 14th century.  It is an odd thing, since Clemencic seems to be aiming at a realistic impression of what would have happened during the period.

The actual performance of the mass is fairly straight forward and very well done.  But because of the many interruptions this performance of the mass is seriously compromised, imo.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: ComposerOfAvantGarde on January 07, 2017, 03:58:56 PM
^^^^^^^For a casual early music listener, would that recording still be worth getting? Or is it rather more suited to those with a lot more knowledge of musical performances in the era.........
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 07, 2017, 04:05:31 PM
Quote from: jessop on January 07, 2017, 03:58:56 PM
^^^^^^^For a casual early music listener, would that recording still be worth getting? Or is it rather more suited to those with a lot more knowledge of musical performances in the era.........

It is probably more enjoyable for someone only generally interested in early music since it offers a variety of styles from the period and the actual performances are very good.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 07, 2017, 04:18:07 PM
I had been looking forward to hearing the performance of the Machaut mass included on this disk of Bohemian Christmas music:

(https://www.earlymusicny.org/images/scans/rec-boxmas-lg.jpg)

Early Music New York, Frederick Renz, dir.

Frederick Renz has quite an early music resume:  studied harpsichord with Gustav Leonhardt in Holland as a Fulbright Scholar. He was keyboard soloist with the legendary New York Pro Musica Antiqua for six seasons and founded the Early Music Foundation when the former organization disbanded in 1974. 

Then there's this: the Early Music New York presents and records music of the 12th through the 18th centuries, including historical dramatic and dance works. Medieval and Renaissance repertoire is performed by a chamber ensemble of voices and instruments without conductor.

The polyphony of the mass is accompanied throughout by trombones.  This practice was prevalent in decades prior to the 1970s and fell out of practice once the historically informed movement matured.  It now sounds strange to my ears, but other than that the singing sounds good despite the overly reverberant acoustic.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 07, 2017, 09:55:38 PM
Quote from: jessop on January 07, 2017, 03:58:56 PM
^^^^^^^For a casual early music listener, would that recording still be worth getting? Or is it rather more suited to those with a lot more knowledge of musical performances in the era.........

It's quite medieval sounding.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 08, 2017, 01:18:10 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on January 07, 2017, 03:55:31 PM
Apropos the discussion of instruments use in church music during the Middle Ages -

machaut : la messe de nostre dame
rene clemencic | clemencic consort

(http://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/12/92/42/38/6port449.jpg)

From what I gather from listening to the recording, since I can't read the Japanese notes, Clemencic is trying to present the work within a realistic context of the day of the mass:


  • first we hear peasant songs outside the church
    then organ alternating with communal singing of processional hymns
    then the mass interspersed with other appropriate chants (as well as some inappropriate instrument sections)


An unusual but interesting method of presenting the mass - but I would vastly have preferred that the instrumental playing between the sung mass sections have been organ-only and not included peasant dance music which is completely against what would have occurred in the 14th century.  It is an odd thing, since Clemencic seems to be aiming at a realistic impression of what would have happened during the period.

The actual performance of the mass is fairly straight forward and very well done.  But because of the many interruptions this performance of the mass is seriously compromised, imo.

It's a sort of medievalism maybe, you know, let's make the old music sound exotic and colourful, a similar idea in Peres and Schmelzer but implemented differently. Anyway I think the book to read on this is by Daniel Leech-Wilkinson, but it's too expensive for me.

I find this general pattern really interesting. Orientalism and Medievalism, interpreting otherness in time and in space. Someone started a thread here about what you would study if you were to have a year of research. Well, I think this is a good contender.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 08, 2017, 01:48:14 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 08, 2017, 01:18:10 AM
It's a sort of medievalism maybe, you know, let's make the old music sound exotic and colourful, a similar idea in Peres and Schmelzer but implemented differently. Anyway I think the book to read on this is by Daniel Leech-Wilkinson, but it's too expensive for me.

I find this general pattern really interesting. Orientalism and Medievalism, interpreting otherness in time and in space. Someone started a thread here about what you would study if you were to have a year of research. Well, I think this is a good contender.

I have the Leech-Wilkinson book on the mass, but bought it years ago when it wasn't that expensive.  His book is very good for analysis of the music, maybe too technical for a non-musician, but he only gives a short biographic overview and a paragraph or two on the whole endowment/memorial aspect.

BTW, I heard back from Elizabeth Eva Leach; she replied to my email last week.  She basically agreed with me that all the evidence surrounding Machaut's will, endowment, memorial concerning funding the performance of the mass after his death is circumstantial but is not "completely weak" however, she also says this "It might be that Machaut's Messe was the mass, but it might equally well be another (probably plainsong) mass."   She also cites a long paper by Roger Bowers (which I downloaded from JStor).

Bowers uses different logic than Anne Robertson who argues the strongest for the mass as memorial in her book, "Guillaume de Machaut and Reims," but still considers the mass was written for a unique purpose: maybe a memorial or maybe as a gift to the cathedral upon his retirement there.  It is interesting that Robertson uses a translation of the cathedral plaque which takes a few liberties with the Latin in order to strengthen her argument, whereas Bowers is more accurate acknowledging that the word "petitorium" is a legal term and hints at a legal proceeding and as a result of a less than satisfactory resolution at court for the Machaut estate, an endowment was collected by friends . 

This is different from how Robertson translates the word as a "personal petition" by the Machaut brothers, and which implies a much more overt gesture by Machaut about his intentions for performance of the mass. 

So, I think Schmelzer's entire hypothesis is founded on circumstantial evidence for which different conclusions can be drawn.  I would have preferred had he simply said "this is how I wish to perform the music because it brings the music alive to 21st century ears" and not gone into his psuedo-intellectual explanation about the afterlife of the work.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 12, 2017, 04:15:00 PM
Wonderful disc from the L'Oiseau Lyre M&R box ~

Matteo da Perugia : Secular Works
Medieval Ensemble of London | Timothy & Peter Davies

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/410KACDXZTL._AC_SX236_SY340_QL65_.jpg)

His surviving compositions include mass movements, two isorhythmic motets and both Italian and French secular songs. Willi Apel regarded Matteo as the principal composer of his generation, in whose compositions one could trace the stylistic transition between the mannerism of the 1380s to the 'modern style' of the early 15th century. This viewpoint was challenged by Besseler; since then Matteo's position in history has remained an open question, and his music awaits a thorough stylistic study.

Some preliminary observations can be made, however. His cantus lines contain quirky leaps (the diminished 4th is a favourite interval), often from unstable sonorities that precede expected cadential arrivals. He often surrounds structural pitches with appogiaturas and auxiliary notes and embellishes his melodies with detailed, fast-moving ornamental figurations, notated in I-MOe α.M.5.24 with an expanded arsenal of italianate figures. A favourite device in the songs is to construct a melodic sequence upon a complex or syncopated rhythmic pattern (for example in Le greygnour bien and Le grant desir). He often begins phrases with imitation in all three voices. Several of his works explore a more adventurous chromaticism than is typical of this period.
  [Ursula Günther and Anne Stone. "Matteo da Perugia." Grove Music Online. Oxford Music Online. Oxford University Press. Web. 13 Jan. 2017.]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 20, 2017, 04:56:32 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on January 20, 2017, 04:46:07 AM
Dufay : Choral Music
Cantica Symphona

(http://cdn.naxosmusiclibrary.com/sharedfiles/images/cds/hires/GCDP31904.jpg)

Wish they'd left their instruments in the cases, but otherwise, the singing is good and a nice selection of works.

I am not familiar with this group, Cantica Symphona.  I wonder what is the historical basis for using these instruments accompanying the voices?  Not overdone, just curious.  There is plenty of contemporaneous information about how much the "church Fathers" detested instruments at church.  And this continues until the late 16th century (organ excepted) but it is not to say that the amount of vitriol might also have been a reaction to what was being done despite the church's preference.

Thus we find that Erasmus, writing more than a century after Machaut's death, had cause to criticize instrumental music in much the same way as the Fathers had done, but with the significant addition that it was now to be heard 'even in the holy temple, just as in the theatre'. 

This was a comparatively new development around 1500, and one that is corroborated by other writers.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 20, 2017, 05:22:31 AM
This month's Early Music America magazine has a feature article on women composers during the periods from 9th-17th century.  One caught my eye (literally), Barbara Strozzi (1619-1677).  I'd heard of her before, but the painting of her is a bit risque.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Barbara_Strozzi_1.jpg/270px-Barbara_Strozzi_1.jpg)

Lady Gaga has got nothing on her!

https://www.youtube.com/v/aDBPfhG-gVk
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Ken B on January 20, 2017, 08:27:47 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on January 20, 2017, 05:22:31 AM
This month's Early Music America magazine has a feature article on women composers during the periods from 9th-17th century.  One caught my eye (literally), Barbara Strozzi (1619-1677).  I'd heard of her before, but the painting of her is a bit risque.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Barbara_Strozzi_1.jpg/270px-Barbara_Strozzi_1.jpg)

Lady Gaga has got nothing on her!

https://www.youtube.com/v/aDBPfhG-gVk
She is a character in a movie I saw once, but cannot recall what the movie was!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Zeus on January 20, 2017, 10:14:54 AM
Hi All!

I saw this new release and I thought I'd ask here for people's opinions about it and/or the group before I pull the trigger:

Knights, Maids, and Miracles / La Reverdie

(http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/98/39/3760195733998_600.jpg)

It's a bundle of five of their previous releases, I believe from the 90s.

I can download the whole shebang for $10 from prestoclassical or googleplay (at least until they fix their pricing). But since I'm the kind of person that tries to listen to everything I buy at least once a year or so, I'm reluctant to buy a bunch of discs without doing a little sniffing around first.

So... what do you think? Should I jump on it?  Does the music sound as nice as the packaging looks?


UPDATE: The set includes the following earlier releases:

SVSO IN ITALIA BELLA - Musique dans les cours et cloîtres de l'Italie du Nord

O TU CHARA SCIENCA - la musique dans la pensée médiévale

NOX-LUX - France and Angleterre, 1200-1300

INSULA FEMINARUM - Résonances Médiévales de la Féminité Celte

SPECULUM AMORIS - Medieval Love Lyrics of Mysticism and Eroticism

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on January 20, 2017, 10:23:18 AM
An unconditional recommendation from me.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 20, 2017, 10:33:04 AM
Quote from: Judge Fish on January 20, 2017, 10:14:54 AM
Hi All!

I saw this new release and I thought I'd ask here for people's opinions about it and/or the group before I pull the trigger:

Knights, Maids, and Miracles / La Reverdie

(http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/98/39/3760195733998_600.jpg)

It is on Spotify. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 20, 2017, 12:51:16 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on January 20, 2017, 04:56:32 AM
I am not familiar with this group, Cantica Symphona.  I wonder what is the historical basis for using these instruments accompanying the voices?  Not overdone, just curious.  There is plenty of contemporaneous information about how much the "church Fathers" detested instruments at church.  And this continues until the late 16th century (organ excepted) but it is not to say that the amount of vitriol might also have been a reaction to what was being done despite the church's preference.

Thus we find that Erasmus, writing more than a century after Machaut's death, had cause to criticize instrumental music in much the same way as the Fathers had done, but with the significant addition that it was now to be heard 'even in the holy temple, just as in the theatre'. 

This was a comparatively new development around 1500, and one that is corroborated by other writers.

Bear in mind that these motets weren't necessarily sung in church services.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 20, 2017, 01:03:56 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on January 12, 2017, 04:15:00 PM
Wonderful disc from the L'Oiseau Lyre M&R box ~

Matteo da Perugia : Secular Works
Medieval Ensemble of London | Timothy & Peter Davies

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/410KACDXZTL._AC_SX236_SY340_QL65_.jpg)



Do they take it very fast compared with Tetraktys? The Tetraktys timings are here

https://www.etcetera-records.com/album/617/chansons

I believe Davies Bros stopped recording and performing because they got very depressed about negative reviews which didn't approve of their instruments.


Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on January 20, 2017, 05:34:58 PM
Quote from: Judge Fish on January 20, 2017, 10:14:54 AM
Hi All!

I saw this new release and I thought I'd ask here for people's opinions about it and/or the group before I pull the trigger:

Knights, Maids, and Miracles / La Reverdie

(http://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/98/39/3760195733998_600.jpg)

Quote from: (: premont :) on January 20, 2017, 10:23:18 AM
An unconditional recommendation from me.

+1  :)

Fantastic group.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 21, 2017, 12:11:32 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on January 20, 2017, 04:56:32 AM
I am not familiar with this group, Cantica Symphona.  I wonder what is the historical basis for using these instruments accompanying the voices?  Not overdone, just curious.  There is plenty of contemporaneous information about how much the "church Fathers" detested instruments at church.  And this continues until the late 16th century (organ excepted) but it is not to say that the amount of vitriol might also have been a reaction to what was being done despite the church's preference.

Thus we find that Erasmus, writing more than a century after Machaut's death, had cause to criticize instrumental music in much the same way as the Fathers had done, but with the significant addition that it was now to be heard 'even in the holy temple, just as in the theatre'. 

This was a comparatively new development around 1500, and one that is corroborated by other writers.

I've sampled their recordings on several occasions, and every time I really disliked it..... The use of instruments and the way they are used sounds completely out of place.
The whole approach sounds terribly interventionist.

Which makes life more easy....a lot of expensive discs not to consider.... 8)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on January 21, 2017, 07:51:02 AM
Quote from: Que on January 21, 2017, 12:11:32 AM
I've sampled their recordings on several occasions, and every time I really disliked it..... The use of instruments and the way they are used sounds completely out of place.
The whole approach sounds terribly interventionist.

Which makes life more easy....a lot of expensive discs not to consider.... 8)

Q

Hi Que,

This Dufay recording by Cantica Symphonia is my favorite by this composer:

[asin]B000ESMDFI[/asin]

The instrumental accompaniment fits quite well, I feel.  It's really excellent.  :)

The instruments do not sound out of place at all here; they include organ, violins, harps and lute.  Other Cantica Symphonia recordings add other instruments to the mix, such as cornets and trombones, but here, the voices and instruments go very well together.

I was able to purchase this recording for under $5 U.S. - an incredible bargain.  ;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 21, 2017, 03:01:40 PM
Quote from: Que on January 21, 2017, 12:11:32 AM
I've sampled their recordings on several occasions, and every time I really disliked it..... The use of instruments and the way they are used sounds completely out of place.
The whole approach sounds terribly interventionist.

Which makes life more easy....a lot of expensive discs not to consider.... 8)

Q

I admit to leaning in your direction.  I didn't have to invest anything to hear it on Spotify, which is a great service to sample before buying.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 21, 2017, 10:36:35 PM
It would be misleading to suggest that instrumental participation in 15th century sacred music is "out of place", to use que's expression.

In an interview on the glossa website  Maletto said that he thought that instruments and voices works well for Dufay because of the complexity of the voicing in the music, as if he uses the different timbres of  the instruments to  clarify what's going on for the listener. This doesn't sound stupid to me, and as far as I can see it's quite stylish. Whether Maletto always succeeds in this aim is a moot point of course, but the aim seems laudable.

There's an interesting set of notes about this and other aspects of performance practice on Blue Heron's site.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 21, 2017, 11:59:20 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 21, 2017, 10:36:35 PM
It would be misleading to suggest that instrumental participation in 15th century sacred music is "out of place", to use que's expression.


I wouldn't suggest that either. As a matter of personal preference am not so keen on the use of instruments.
Since my knowledge on the mater is way too limited, I have have no general opinon on the historical authenticity of such an approach.
And frankly I am more interested in whether I enjoy what I hear - it is just that historical informed performances often lead me into the right direction.

Whatever the merits of Maletto's reasons and justifications, it totally rubs me the wrong way.
I indeed have read before he want to "help" the listener to dicifer the complexities of the music. Well....no, thanks, I'm good.... 8)
I have listened my way into this kind of music the hard way, which turned out to be very rewarding. :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 22, 2017, 01:51:16 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 21, 2017, 10:36:35 PM
It would be misleading to suggest that instrumental participation in 15th century sacred music is "out of place", to use que's expression.

In an interview on the glossa website  Maletto said that he thought that instruments and voices works well for Dufay because of the complexity of the voicing in the music, as if he uses the different timbres of  the instruments to  clarify what's going on for the listener. This doesn't sound stupid to me, and as far as I can see it's quite stylish. Whether Maletto always succeeds in this aim is a moot point of course, but the aim seems laudable.

There's an interesting set of notes about this and other aspects of performance practice on Blue Heron's site.

That idea (bolded) is not a new one; it is exactly the rationale used back in the 50s (and earlier) for the use of instrument doubling of the vocal lines.  I was just reading about this concerning isorhythmic works, there was a desire to demonstrate what was going on in the music.

I am with Que on this.  Not only is it historically indefensible, especially for sacred music that would have been performed in church, I simply prefer the sound of the voices alone.  I go further and would like to hear only male voices (tenors, not countertenors, and basses/baritones) in polyphonic music.

Of course there is a limit to how "authentic" we can ever present this music, if at all.  There isn't enough left to us of real evidence.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 22, 2017, 02:42:02 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on January 22, 2017, 01:51:16 AM
That idea (bolded) is not a new one; it is exactly the rationale used back in the 50s (and earlier) for the use of instrument doubling of the vocal lines.  I was just reading about this concerning isorhythmic works, there was a desire to demonstrate what was going on in the music.

I am with Que on this.  Not only is it historically indefensible, especially for sacred music that would have been performed in church, I simply prefer the sound of the voices alone.  I go further and would like to hear only male voices (tenors, not countertenors, and basses/baritones) in polyphonic music.

Of course there is a limit to how "authentic" we can ever present this music, if at all.  There isn't enough left to us of real evidence.

Well I'm less confident than you that instrumental participation in Dufay's sacred music is historically indefensible, though you may be right to suggest that the location of the performance had a lot to do with how instruments were used: church, chapel etc.

There's something about the gossamer of sound in some of Maletto's realisations which I like, the voice ondulates in a web of instruments, how much this is an engineering feature I don't know. And I like the small size of the sounds the singers make, no operatic projection. In fact I like their his Dufay as much as anyone and a lot more than Paul van Nevel's!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 27, 2017, 05:12:13 AM
The Unknown Lover: Songs by Solage and Machaut
Gothic Voices

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/128/MI0001128843.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

This recording from 2006 by Gothic Voices was the first to be released without Christopher Page, the founder of the group.  It contains a group of songs, mostly from the Chantilly Codex by Machaut and the illusive Solage.

We know virtually nothing about Solage other than that he lived and flourished in the late 14th century, France.  There are musical stylistic reasons to date him during the period of Ars Subtilior and references in the texts to historical persons who lived in the late 14th - early 15th century.  We only have ten songs by him and two that are usually attributed to him, and all appear on this recording.

His style will often take the music to remote harmonic areas: Particularly striking are his frequent use of sequence and unusually low tessitura. Though sequential repetition also features in songs by his contemporaries, Solage takes the idea much further, particularly in Fumeux fume and Le mont Aon, where harmonic sequential descents provoke shifts to distant tonal areas. Calextone qui fut is similarly unorthodox in its tonal language and features an especially sophisticated musical structure. 

The seven songs by Machaut sprinkled through the program utilize the same three song forms. While they are described here as less familiar, only one is a first recording, the last one listed, and three others have been recorded quite frequently.

The Gothic Voices present this music very well and collectors who are interested in this era should not hesitate to grab this disc, a real treasure.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 27, 2017, 07:41:35 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on January 27, 2017, 05:12:13 AM
The Unknown Lover: Songs by Solage and Machaut
Gothic Voices

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/128/MI0001128843.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

This recording from 2006 by Gothic Voices was the first to be released without Christopher Page, the founder of the group.  It contains a group of songs, mostly from the Chantilly Codex by Machaut and the illusive Solage.

We know virtually nothing about Solage other than that he lived and flourished in the late 14th century, France.  There are musical stylistic reasons to date him during the period of Ars Subtilior and references in the texts to historical persons who lived in the late 14th - early 15th century.  We only have ten songs by him and two that are usually attributed to him, and all appear on this recording.

His style will often take the music to remote harmonic areas: Particularly striking are his frequent use of sequence and unusually low tessitura. Though sequential repetition also features in songs by his contemporaries, Solage takes the idea much further, particularly in Fumeux fume and Le mont Aon, where harmonic sequential descents provoke shifts to distant tonal areas. Calextone qui fut is similarly unorthodox in its tonal language and features an especially sophisticated musical structure. 

The seven songs by Machaut sprinkled through the program utilize the same three song forms. While they are described here as less familiar, only one is a first recording, the last one listed, and three others have been recorded quite frequently.

The Gothic Voices present this music very well and collectors who are interested in this era should not hesitate to grab this disc, a real treasure.

The version of Calextone that I like the most is on an album by Michele Pasotti called Metamorfose Trecento, you can find it streaming very easily. The whole album seems very enjoyable to me.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 27, 2017, 08:12:59 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 27, 2017, 07:41:35 AM
The version of Calextone that I like the most is on an album by Michele Pasotti called Metamorfose Trecento, you can find it streaming very easily. The whole album seems very enjoyable to me.

I am listening to Metamorfose Trecento right now on Spotify.  Have you heard the Gothic Voices version?  The effect is entirely different since it is sung by a group of three male singers in low register - very strange and wonderful.  The version by Michele Pasotti is fine but sounds rather like standard fare by comparison.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 27, 2017, 08:52:08 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on January 27, 2017, 08:12:59 AM
I am listening to Metamorfose Trecento right now on Spotify.  Have you heard the Gothic Voices version?  The effect is entirely different since it is sung by a group of three male singers in low register - very strange and wonderful.  The version by Michele Pasotti is fine but sounds rather like standard fare by comparison.


Calextone, qui fut dame terrouse,
A Jupiter fit un doulz sacrefice,
Tant qu'il la mist conme sa vraye espouse
Hault ou troune, et li fu moult propice ;
Et puis amoureusement
La courouna sur toutes richement :
Lors touz lez dieux li feirent per homage
Joieux recept et amoureux soulage.


What I hear is that Gothic Voices take it too quickly and I think the performance is superficial, they're not good with the poetry. Listen, for example, to the way the singer for Pasotti finds tenderness in "Et puis amoureusement" and nobility in "La courouna sur toutes richement". Similar thoughts for "Joieux recept et amoureux soulage.", especially "amoureux soulage." You find nothing like this in Page's version.

What Page does sounds strange maybe, but it's an empty and self serving strangeness: it does nothing to enhance the meaning of the song. I just disagree that it's wonderful.

I don't like the way Christopher Page uses voices here, rather than combine soloist and instruments, and I prefer a higher register generally. But that's just a matter of taste I think, nothing interesting about the music hangs on it, does it?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 27, 2017, 09:28:51 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 27, 2017, 08:52:08 AM

Calextone, qui fut dame terrouse,
A Jupiter fit un doulz sacrefice,
Tant qu'il la mist conme sa vraye espouse
Hault ou troune, et li fu moult propice ;
Et puis amoureusement
La courouna sur toutes richement :
Lors touz lez dieux li feirent per homage
Joieux recept et amoureux soulage.


What I hear is that Gothic Voices take it too quickly and I think the performance is superficial, they're not good with the poetry. Listen, for example, to the way the singer for Pasotti finds tenderness in "Et puis amoureusement" and nobility in "La courouna sur toutes richement". Similar thoughts for "Joieux recept et amoureux soulage.", especially "amoureux soulage." You find nothing like this in Page's version.

What Page does sounds strange maybe, but it's an empty and self serving strangeness: it does nothing to enhance the meaning of the song. I just disagree that it's wonderful.

I don't like the way Christopher Page uses voices here, rather than combine soloist and instruments, and I prefer a higher register generally. But that's just a matter of taste I think, nothing interesting about the music hangs on it, does it?

Aside from the fact that Page had departed Gothic Voices when The Unknown Lover was made and can't be blamed for what you don't enjoy, I think our differences are related to our relative tastes and what we look for in the music.  I do generally prefer male voices without instruments, and I do like the lower tessitura in the GV recording.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 29, 2017, 08:51:50 AM
I've been listening to Solage's s'aincy estoit, which seems to be a song praising up someone called Duke Jehan of Berry.

S'aincy estoit que ne feust la noblesce
Du bon Jehan, duc gentilz de Berry
France perdroit son pris et sa prouesce
Et le monde seroit amenuy ;
Quar de certain sa valour
S'estent per tout et luist con le cler jour
Et en tout fais son noble cuer habunde
Quar c'est celi qui est la flour du monde.

I have four versions: Tetraktys, Gothic Voices, Musica Reservata and Ferrara Ensemble. All use soloist and instruments apart from Gothic Voices.

Elapsed time varies very much, partly because some of them repeat it.

If you follow Tetraktys you see how their approach is very much guided by the poem, and this suits my own approach to music. Just listen, for example, to how they reveal expression in the music at the thought in "France perdroit son pris et sa prouesce." or "Quar c'est celi qui est la flour du monde." The instrumental passages are particularly useful in this respect.

Without wishing to sound funny, I wonder if either Gothic Voices or Musica Reservata have thought about the poem much. It doesn't sound like it to me from the way they sing. Maybe they don't think the text should guide their expression, I'm no expert but that idea sounds a bit strange to me, so surely not. They both have an unusual way of singing. Gothic Voices aren't my sort of thing not least because of the way the sound seems to come out of their noses! And they don't use instruments for some mysterious reason: instead they have people doing vocalise! What's the idea behind that? They're certainly one of a kind. .

Anyway I'd had enough so I didn't feel like listening carefully to Ferrara Ensemble to make any comments.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on January 29, 2017, 09:09:26 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 29, 2017, 08:51:50 AM
I've been listening to Solage's s'aincy estoit, which seems to be a song praising up someone called Duke Jahan of Berry.


I have four versions: Tetraktys, Gothic Voices, Musica Reservata and Ferrara Ensemble. All use soloist and instruments apart from Gothic Voices.

That's from the Philips LP: Music from the 100 Years War. Did it ever appear on CD?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 29, 2017, 09:17:54 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on January 29, 2017, 09:09:26 AM
That's from the Philips LP: Music from the 100 Years War. Did it ever appear on CD?

I don't think so, but I'll let you have it tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 29, 2017, 10:04:06 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 29, 2017, 08:51:50 AM
I've been listening to Solage's s'aincy estoit, which seems to be a song praising up someone called Duke Jehan of Berry.

S'aincy estoit que ne feust la noblesce
Du bon Jehan, duc gentilz de Berry
France perdroit son pris et sa prouesce
Et le monde seroit amenuy ;
Quar de certain sa valour
S'estent per tout et luist con le cler jour
Et en tout fais son noble cuer habunde
Quar c'est celi qui est la flour du monde.

I have four versions: Tetraktys, Gothic Voices, Musica Reservata and Ferrara Ensemble. All use soloist and instruments apart from Gothic Voices.

Elapsed time varies very much, partly because some of them repeat it.

If you follow Tetraktys you see how their approach is very much guided by the poem, and this suits my own approach to music. Just listen, for example, to how they reveal expression in the music at the thought in "France perdroit son pris et sa prouesce." or "Quar c'est celi qui est la flour du monde." The instrumental passages are particularly useful in this respect.

Without wishing to sound funny, I wonder if either Gothic Voices or Musica Reservata have thought about the poem much. It doesn't sound like it to me from the way they sing. Maybe they don't think the text should guide their expression, I'm no expert but that idea sounds a bit strange to me, so surely not. They both have an unusual way of singing. Gothic Voices aren't my sort of thing not least because of the way the sound seems to come out of their noses! And they don't use instruments for some mysterious reason: instead they have people doing vocalise! What's the idea behind that? They're certainly one of a kind. .

Anyway I'd had enough so I didn't feel like listening carefully to Ferrara Ensemble to make any comments.

I hope that Tetraktys manages to get the funding to complete their plan to record the entire Chantilly Codex songs, which I think amounts to around 130 items.  As far as I can tell they have released three installments.  I plan on getting them despite all being OOP, at least in the US. (The other series which is sadly OOP is the five volume set of troubadour songs by Gérard Zuchetto.)

I understand your preference for their approach which I also enjoy, but contrary to you, I also very much enjoy the Gothic Voices way with the music.  I love the vocal-only sound and especially with Solage, with the way he writes the music with sequences bringing the music to tonally remote areas or has sections written in a low tessitura.  Those effects are seriously undermined, if not missing altogether, when done by a solo voice with instruments.

Each approach lacks something in the music: you miss the sensitivity to the text and I miss the color and texture that is found in the a cappella version.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 29, 2017, 11:01:52 AM
It's tempting for me to fall into clichés here and say that the approach of Tetraktys is "prima le parole" and the approach of Gothic Voices is "prima la musica" - whether the latter are confusing music and score/diagram is the interesting question I think.

Quote from: sanantonio on January 29, 2017, 10:04:06 AM
.  I love the vocal-only sound and especially with Solage, with the way he writes the music with sequences bringing the music to tonally remote areas or has sections written in a low tessitura.  Those effects are seriously undermined, if not missing altogether, when done by a solo voice with instruments.


I know this may be a pain, but it would be nice if you could point me to a passage to listen to to hear this.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 29, 2017, 12:54:17 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 29, 2017, 11:01:52 AM
It's tempting for me to fall into clichés here and say that the approach of Tetraktys is "prima le parole" and the approach of Gothic Voices is "prima la musica" - whether the latter are confusing music and score/diagram is the interesting question I think.

I know this may be a pain, but it would be nice if you could point me to a passage to listen to to hear this.

The Solage song on The Unknown Love, "Fumeux fume par fumée," displays a good example of the downward sequencing and low tessitura.  But that isn't the song you mentioned in your original post.  "S'aincy estoit que ne feust la noblesce" by the Gothic Voices has a very modern sound to me, the background voices accompanying the main voices float around in uncertain tonality and the main voice has sections of amazing melismatic activity.

I will hunt up the recording you prefer and make a head-to-head comparison, but since I do not understand the words in any event, I probably will not appreciate what they are doing as you have.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 29, 2017, 01:06:51 PM
Mary Berry describes the Gothic Voices recording and specifically the songs we'v been discussing here, "The singers manage with perfect ease the long vocalisations and rhythmic complexity of some of the ballades, for example S'aincy estoit: their performance flows as naturally as a gentle stream. ... Perhaps most intriguing of all is Solage's rondeau Fumeux fume par fumee. Gothic Voices take this strange song at face value and perform it at pitch with a group of the lowest male voices. They seem to suggest that these singers sink into a boozy haze. But what do we know about performance practice in the 14th century? Precious little. The truth is that Solage is actually describing an existing group of poets, bent on trying to uncover the very essence of poetic imagination and creation. We hear several series of short phrases, sung sequentially, six or seven in a row, reaching the very bottom of the vocal range. The effect is astoundingly modern, entailing chromaticism and exotic modulations. It would take another 200 years before a Gesualdo might attempt anything equally exotic."

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on January 29, 2017, 01:12:46 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 29, 2017, 08:51:50 AM
Without wishing to sound funny, I wonder if either Gothic Voices or Musica Reservata have thought about the poem much. It doesn't sound like it to me from the way they sing. Maybe they don't think the text should guide their expression,

I think Musica Reservata tried to let the voices sound as "instrumental" as possible. This applies not only to Noorman's cornetto-like voice but to all the singers. Many recordings by David Munrow have a similar quality, listen f.x. to the four part organum's by Perotin. Naturally the words get less attention in this way.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 29, 2017, 01:37:32 PM
Project Ars Nova has also recorded "Fumeux fume par fumee" with solo voice + instruments.  It is such a striking piece of writing that it survives any kind of performance.  I am listening right now to yet another group Tritonis XIV and their version is primarily instrumental although a solo voice comes in for the last verse and closes it out.  Their version is very slow and expressive.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on January 30, 2017, 12:15:36 AM
Proper early music, for once:


Classical CD Of The Week: The Martin Luther Soundtrack
(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jenslaurson/files/2017/01/Forbes_Classica-CD-of-the-Week_CARUS_Luther-Collage_1517-Mitten-im-Leben_Calmus-Ensemble_Laurson_1200-1200x469.jpg?width=960)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/01/25/classical-cd-of-the-week-the-martin-luther-soundtrack/#76465b8154fe (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/01/25/classical-cd-of-the-week-the-martin-luther-soundtrack/#76465b8154fe)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Richard on January 30, 2017, 03:59:56 AM
Does anyone have any experience with this set of recordings? I've had it in my hands several times at my local store.

[asin]B005MJDVWI[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 30, 2017, 07:07:49 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on January 29, 2017, 01:37:32 PM
Project Ars Nova has also recorded "Fumeux fume par fumee" with solo voice + instruments.  It is such a striking piece of writing that it survives any kind of performance.  I am listening right now to yet another group Tritonis XIV and their version is primarily instrumental although a solo voice comes in for the last verse and closes it out.  Their version is very slow and expressive.

The are a couple of very different performances of it by Huelgas Ensemble which are worth hearing I think, one in Febus Avant and the other on a CD with the word "cigar" in the title.

I wonder what it's really about. In the poem the line "Tant qu'il ait son entention" was for me completely unexpected. It's as if it's about cold blooded, cool headed calculation to get your own way. It's very strange.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: PeterWillem on February 01, 2017, 12:17:52 PM
This spring's must-buy

(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571281704.png)
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA68170
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 02, 2017, 07:15:35 AM
I have been reading the Grove article on Jacob Obrecht and was struck by the fact that he composed three dozen mass cycles.  I wonder how many have been recorded? 

(https://img.discogs.com/VSv4LiGs4S1KacJ8ssZaYGx3xLU=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/A-833934-1374515635-2890.jpeg.jpg)

Medieval.org, as usual, has a good article and discog on their site (http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/composers/obrecht.html).  It is hard to tell when it was updated, the entries are not dated unless you click to the main entry.  I found one from 2008, but nothing more recent so far.

Obrecht is often overshadowed by Josquin - but he was a major composer in his own right.

Any Obrecht fans here?

;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 02, 2017, 07:18:06 AM
I had a thread somewhere on Obrecht.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 02, 2017, 07:26:42 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 02, 2017, 07:18:06 AM
I had a thread somewhere on Obrecht.

You created this mash-up of Jacob Obrecht, Alexander Agricola & Heinrich Isaac.  Only one page so far.

I will start listening to the masses.  I am about finished with my Machaut discog and after a slight detour into the 12th century Aquitaine/St. Martial polyphony I will be looking for another early composer to research.

;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 02, 2017, 07:39:49 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 02, 2017, 07:26:42 AM
You created this mash-up of Jacob Obrecht, Alexander Agricola & Heinrich Isaac.  Only one page so far.

I will start listening to the masses.  I am about finished with my Machaut discog and after a slight detour into the 12th century Aquitaine/St. Martial polyphony I will be looking for another early composer to research.

;)

There's a good book on Obrecht, by Rob Wegman. There are lots of interesting questions to do with chronology and the symbolic meaning of the musical structures. The Obrecht discography is quite large, dominated by ANS choir. Let me know if you find anything exceptional from ANS, I've never really explored what they do.

Obrecht, Agricola and Isaac seem to me to fit together, though I'm not sure I can justify it. All very Ockeghemesque maybe, sub-Ockeghem.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 02, 2017, 07:47:26 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 02, 2017, 07:39:49 AM
There's a good book on Obrecht, by Rob Wegman. There are lots of interesting questions to do with chronology and the symbolic meaning of the musical structures. The Obrecht discography is quite large, dominated by AMS choir.

Obrecht, Agricola and Isaac seem to me to fit together, though I'm not sure I can justify it. All very Ockeghemesque maybe, sub-Ockeghem.

I am aware of the Wegman book and have wishlisted a "like-new" used copy.  There is the recording of tributes to Ockeghem, PLORER, GEMIR, CRIER • Antoine Guerber, cond; Diabolus in Musica, that has some nice music by Obrecht and others.

In 1998 only one-third of his masses had been recorded, by now that may have increased some.

You are correct, AMS has done the most.

The hunt is on.

;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on February 02, 2017, 11:40:38 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 02, 2017, 07:15:35 AM

Any Obrecht fans here?

;)
Yes, me. Maria Zart is a stunner of a mass.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 02, 2017, 01:23:03 PM
Quote from: The new erato on February 02, 2017, 11:40:38 AM
Yes, me. Maria Zart is a stunner of a mass.

I don't know if you have spotify, or whether you can tolerate the ANS recordings, but I bet you'll think that Missa Si Dedero is also pretty stunning.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on February 02, 2017, 10:11:43 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 02, 2017, 01:23:03 PM
I don't know if you have spotify, or whether you can tolerate the ANS recordings, but I bet you'll think that Missa Si Dedero is also pretty stunning.
No spotify, but noted. Thanks.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 03, 2017, 01:03:21 PM
This recording seems to have flown under the EMC radar when it was released last March (2016):

SCATTERED ASHES • Philip Cave, dir; Magnificat • LINN 517 (2 CDs: 84:09 Text and Translation)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41fzvNYD64L._SS500.jpg)

Fanfare's J.F. Weber (I usually find him a reliable source) raves:

This is a remarkable program, one of the most rewarding presentations of Renaissance sacred music to appear in many years. The title refers to the fate of Girolamo Savonarola (1452–1498), the Dominican friar, a charismatic preacher against vice. He brought Florence to his feet, driving out the Medici, establishing a republic in 1494, and promoting the bonfire of the vanities, which destroyed anything that might be an occasion of sin. His preaching against corruption in the Borgia papacy brought him excommunication and condemnation; he was hanged and burnt in the public square with two confreres, with their ashes scattered in the Arno to prevent any veneration by his followers.

The two discs are parallel in structure. The first begins with Josquin's setting of Psalm 50, then comes Palestrina's setting of a responsory from the first week of Lent, which repeatedly quotes a melody from Josquin's motet. Next is Le Jeune's setting of the opening of "Tristitia obsedit me," Savonarola's meditation on Psalm 30, and finally Lassus' setting of the opening of "Infelix ego," his meditation on Psalm 50. The second disc is similar: L'Héritier's setting of Psalm 50, Gombert's setting of Psalm 30, Clemens non Papa's setting of the opening of the meditation on Psalm 30, and finally Byrd's setting of the opening of the meditation on Psalm 50.

Altogether, the whole of this program is greater than the sum of its parts, a truly eye-opening revelation of Florence during the era of its greatness. For all the condemnation of Savonarola and his influence on the reformers of the following century, he has lately been proposed for beatification, the Church having come around to his point of view. Thanks to Philip Cave for this marvelous program, which is offered for the price of a single disc.


I quite agree.

;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JCBuckley on February 04, 2017, 05:27:09 AM
A strong recommendation (even if the last para of the Fanfare review is largely nonsense) - I shall investigate. Thank you.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on February 04, 2017, 05:46:43 AM
Quote from: JCBuckley on February 04, 2017, 05:27:09 AM
A strong recommendation (even if the last para of the Fanfare review is largely nonsense) - I shall investigate. Thank you.
There are ample samples on Magnificat's Youtube account.
https://www.youtube.com/v/DkL1cOdpTYo  https://www.youtube.com/v/nS2z61hH57U

https://www.youtube.com/v/VrGOvwgJaLI  https://www.youtube.com/v/Ci0Gis-sVlI
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 04, 2017, 03:11:21 PM
Quote from: JCBuckley on February 04, 2017, 05:27:09 AM
A strong recommendation (even if the last para of the Fanfare review is largely nonsense) - I shall investigate. Thank you.

It may appear as nonsense in the manner in which I excerpted it, but the first half of the review (which I didn't quote) gave a thumbnail history of the cleric Savonarola and the teachings which got him in trouble with the church authorities, which ultimately led to his being excommunicated and being burned at the stake. 

For sure, the importance of this recording rests entirely on the performance of music by Magnificat, but the music, at least in some manner, relates to this historical person.  I guess the reviewer felt that knowing a little about him might deepen our appreciation of the music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JCBuckley on February 04, 2017, 03:42:01 PM
Point taken. I was just surprised by the notion that this period is the era of Florence's 'greatness' - that's very far from being true. And the  current pope might be surprised by the assertion that the Catholic church has now 'come around to' Savonarola's 'point of view'. But this is all beside the point, of course. Thanks for directing me towards this recording - I've now bought it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 07, 2017, 05:36:32 AM
I've been buying and listening to a lot of the Early Music recordings on Hyperion.  They have an excellent group of artists and a large selection of titles. Today's listening includes this one:

The Service of Venus and Mars : Music for the Knights of the Garter, 1340-1440
Gothic Voices, Christopher Page

(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571152905.png)

Gothic Voices focuses on the period and repertoire that is of most interest to me. 

There is a good deal of fine music that can be tentatively associated with several of the English kings or with their lords, and some of it is recorded here for the first time. The conflicts of the Hundred Years War, for example, inspired several pieces in praise of English monarchs and their wars in France. Singularis laudis digna begins in praise of the Virgin, but the last stanza trumpets the name of King Edward; he has blazoned his claim to the throne of France by quartering the leopard of England with the French fleur-de-lis. Our second item in praise of an English king, The Agincourt Carol, needs no introduction.

By c1400 the Garter knights were hearing some of the best polyphony while listening to their chapel clerks at Mass. The knights were not 'patrons' of music in any deliberate or systematic way, of course; they paid for some very good music in the sense that their households included a chapel establishment where, now and then, some good music was made, but it would be anachronistic to present them as renaissance connoisseurs using their will and power to gratify their aesthetic tastes. Nonetheless, some of the music provided for them was of very high quality. The celebrated Old Hall manuscript, now Additional MS 57950 in the British Library, brings a handful of truly exceptional composers to light.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 07, 2017, 11:39:18 AM
Johannes Ockeghem : Missa Cuiusvis Toni
Ensemble Musica Nova

(https://cburrell.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/ockeghem-missacv.jpg)

Missa Cuiusvis Toni is a fascinating composition written so that is can be played in all four of the chruch modes:  Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian or Mixolydian.  It is theorized that Ockeghem wrote it originally in the Phrygian mode because of the limited number of cadences in that mode and then adjusted it so that it could work in the other modes. 

The recording by the Ensemble Musica Nova offers the mass in all the modes.  This is also done by The Sound and the Fury on their recording of the mass.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 07, 2017, 03:44:37 PM
Monteverdi: Madrigals : Les Arts Florissants

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/818UQsxlPHL._SY355_.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81Q%2B9kJl9uL._SY355_.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71VqyMuIJrL._SX425_.jpg)

Volumes 1 & 2 were released in 2014 and 2015; Vol. 3 is due out on 2/17/2017. 

Les Arts Florissants, led by conductor Paul Agnew, launches a series of three albums devoted to the Madrigals of Claudio Monteverdi. Each volume will be associated with one of the cities that have marked the course of the composer. This release, dedicated to Mantua, features Madrigals from books IV, V and VI. Subsequent releases will be devoted to Cremona (Vol.1, Books I, II and III) and Venice (Vol.3, Books VII and VIII).

I've got the complete set by La Venexiana, but these are worth getting as well.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 08, 2017, 04:43:27 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 07, 2017, 03:44:37 PM
Monteverdi: Madrigals : Les Arts Florissants

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/818UQsxlPHL._SY355_.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81Q%2B9kJl9uL._SY355_.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71VqyMuIJrL._SX425_.jpg)

Volumes 1 & 2 were released in 2014 and 2015; Vol. 3 is due out on 2/17/2017. 

Les Arts Florissants, led by conductor Paul Agnew, launches a series of three albums devoted to the Madrigals of Claudio Monteverdi. Each volume will be associated with one of the cities that have marked the course of the composer. This release, dedicated to Mantua, features Madrigals from books IV, V and VI. Subsequent releases will be devoted to Cremona (Vol.1, Books I, II and III) and Venice (Vol.3, Books VII and VIII).

I've got the complete set by La Venexiana, but these are worth getting as well.

More on this group of recordings of the madrigals - Paul Agnew and Les Arts Florissants embarked on a world tour performing all eight books and selected these three recordings grouped not by book but thematically related to the three cities of importance for Monteverdi.  These are live performances which imparts spontaneity and energy as well as the odd stutter (but these are very few).

Fabrice Fitch in Gramophone writes: "Les Arts Florissants have not so rich a sound as their Italian counterparts but the lighter timbre makes for a texture of rare transparency, an elfin capacity to render changes of mood that can be properly breathtaking: 'Cruda Amarilli' from Book 5 illustrates this nicely and is practically flawless from beginning to end. ... and the results seem to me to rival Concerto Italiano or La Venexiana at their best, though they take a rather different approach."
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on February 08, 2017, 06:02:37 AM
I was at one of the concerts in Bergen last spring, and it was wonderful.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SurprisedByBeauty on February 08, 2017, 09:52:21 AM

Review: Hamburg Elbphilharmonie Opening
(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jenslaurson/files/2017/02/weisse_haut_foto_johannes_arlt-1200x801.jpg?width=960)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/02/08/review-hamburg-elbphilharmonie-opening-and-first-impressions-of-the-great-hall/#474bf13b3cd2 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2017/02/08/review-hamburg-elbphilharmonie-opening-and-first-impressions-of-the-great-hall/#474bf13b3cd2)

QuoteFrom still further above than the oboe had been placed, up on the fourth tier, the artless, timeless beauty of Philippe Jaroussky's voice appears, accompanied sparsely by just a renaissance harp (Margret Köll). In the aria "Dalle più alte sfere" (from Emilio de' Cavalieri's La Pellegrina ), Jaroussky's voice made this a time-standing-still kind of moment that got close to really embodying the evening's Parsifal-themed motto of "Here time turns into space". The voice, in all its fragility and nuance, filled the entire hall with ethereal ease and with a neutral-appearing amount of reverb. Not bone dry; definitely not churchey. Apparently the hall has just over two seconds of reverb. Nothing I heard suggests that it is even a millisecond more than that.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 08, 2017, 12:06:15 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 07, 2017, 11:39:18 AM
Johannes Ockeghem : Missa Cuiusvis Toni
Ensemble Musica Nova

(https://cburrell.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/ockeghem-missacv.jpg)

Missa Cuiusvis Toni is a fascinating composition written so that is can be played in all four of the chruch modes:  Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian or Mixolydian.  It is theorized that Ockeghem wrote it originally in the Phrygian mode because of them limited number of cadences in that mode and then adjusted it so that it could work in the other modes. 

The recording by the Ensemble Musica Nova offers the mass in all the modes.  This is also done by The Sound and the Fury on their recording of the mass.

I'm not so keen on this one because they seem to blend the voices so much that the tension between the voices becomes diluted, and the music sounds less interesting.

Quote from: sanantonio on February 07, 2017, 11:39:18 AM

The recording by the Ensemble Musica Nova offers the mass in all the modes.  This is also done by The Sound and the Fury on their recording of the mass.

But not, as far as I can see, by the Clerks Group.


Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 09, 2017, 05:36:26 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 08, 2017, 12:06:15 PM
I'm not so keen on this one because they seem to blend the voices so much that the tension between the voices becomes diluted, and the music sounds less interesting.

But not, as far as I can see, by the Clerks Group.

The Sound and the Fury's recording is OVPP and really exposes the polyphony.  But the Musica Nova recording is not bad, just a completely different aesthetic.

Speaking of exposing polyphony, I have been researching and writing an article on the beginnings of polyphony.  I finally published it today.

The Rise of Polyphony: Leonin, Perotin and before (https://musicakaleidoscope.wordpress.com/2017/02/09/the-rise-of-polyphony-magister-leoninus-and-magister-perotinus/)

(https://musicakaleidoscope.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/d70b1fe237420608b2663db377186736.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 09, 2017, 07:06:05 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 09, 2017, 05:36:26 AM
The Sound and the Fury's recording is OVPP and really exposes the polyphony.


Correct.

Some questions are:

1. Is there enough in the music to make it interesting if you don't bring out all the tensions among the voices? I have my doubts.

2. Is it really interesting to listen to all the masses?  I mean, are they different enough? I have my doubts.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 09, 2017, 07:37:31 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 09, 2017, 07:06:05 AM
Correct.

Some questions are:

1. Is there enough in the music to make it interesting if you don't bring out all the tensions among the voices? I have my doubts.

2. Is it really interesting to listen to all the masses?  I mean, are they different enough? I have my doubts.

Regarding Ockeghem's skill, and this mass in particular, the opinion of music historians and theorists over the centuries has generally been good.  But there were some during the 18th century who accused him of contrapuntal "artifice" and citing Missa cuiusvis toni as an example.  But many musicians and theorists from 18th century also did not think highly of Bach for the same reason.

Here's some from Grove on Missa cuiusvis toni:

As Ockeghem's music disappeared from the practical sources in daily use, knowledge of his existence, and of his extraordinary contrapuntal skills, came to be transmitted solely by the theorists of the 16th century. Writers from Aaron to Zacconi, and in particular German schoolmasters such as Heyden, Ornithoparcus and Wilfflingseder, commented on the exceptional achievements of the Missa cuiusvis toni, the Missa prolationum and the canonic chanson, Prenez sur moi. This tradition was carried into the 17th century with the publications of the Italian theorists Rossi (1619) and Liberati (1685), undoubtedly long after any of the authors had occasion to hear in performance either those works or others by the 15th-century composer.

While certain of the features mentioned are much more in evidence in some works than in others, his composition is invariably grounded in some rational, usually ingenious conception, the most striking examples of which are the Missa prolationum and the Missa cuiusvis toni. In their execution, however, his underlying designs are usually artfully concealed in accordance with two of the principal aesthetic ideals of the period, as articulated, for example, by Tinctoris: subtilitas and varietas.

The small group of masses that were apparently freely composed includes the compositions made famous over the centuries by the recurring discussions of fascinated theorists. Each is unique in its own way and without clear historical precedent; consequently their place in the development of the genre, individually and collectively, is difficult to determine. The Missa cuiusvis toni is not unduly complex in its contrapuntal style despite the practical problems involved in reading the work as notated with each of several modal finals as the determinant of scalar structure and modal orientation. The mass is designated by the composer as 'in any mode'; Glarean categorized it as a 'catholicon', meaning it 'might be sung in many modes, almost at the will of the singers'. Most discussions interpret the mass as intended to exemplify the four regular finals, re, mi, fa and sol (see Houle, 1992; Perkins, 1993), but an interpretation on three finals, ut, re and mi, was suggested by Glarean (see van Benthem, 1996; Dean, 1996). Since such a mass could have been used repeatedly and, if performed from changing finals, still have sounded somehow different from one time to the next, it may have been intended for ferial use.
(Although the root of ferial is associated with festivals, actually when used regarding church music it means "weekly" or regular use.)

I'd say, that the music can sound pretty different when sung in the different modes.  For example the Dorian mode would mimic a minor key whereas the Mixolydian mode would sound relatively "major" by comparison.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on February 09, 2017, 07:59:27 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 07, 2017, 11:39:18 AM

Missa Cuiusvis Toni is a fascinating composition written so that is can be played in all four of the chruch modes:  Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian or Mixolydian.  It is theorized that Ockeghem wrote it originally in the Phrygian mode because of the limited number of cadences in that mode and then adjusted it so that it could work in the other modes. 

The recording by the Ensemble Musica Nova offers the mass in all the modes.  This is also done by The Sound and the Fury on their recording of the mass.

No, the recording by S&F offers only three of the modes. However they make them sound surprisingly different.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Fra%2BBernardo/FB1302202
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 09, 2017, 08:05:53 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on February 09, 2017, 07:59:27 AM
No, the recording by S&F offers only three of the modes. However they make them sound surprisingly different.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Fra%2BBernardo/FB1302202

I'm assuming they included Phrygian and Mixolydian, but which one did they leave out? [Edit: I just checked - they left out my favorite one!]

If the mass is not transposed, and depending oj how they treat ficta and leading tones, the work can sound very different (e.g. the Lydian mode should not have the fourth pitch flatted, otherwise it woud simply sound like the major scale).  Musica Nova chose to highlight these differences by singing each iteration on the same starting pitch and one reviewer said that if he did not know what was going on he would think they were four different works.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 09, 2017, 08:29:39 AM

I wonder what sorts of considerations JO imagined users of the mass would bring to bear to decide which tone to sing it in. (Horrible sentence but you know what I mean.) Is there a preface, an instruction manual, or anything like that?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 09, 2017, 08:38:13 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 09, 2017, 08:29:39 AM
I wonder what sorts of considerations JO imagined users of the mass would bring to bear to decide which tone to sing it in. (Horrible sentence but you know what I mean.) Is there a preface, an instruction manual, or anything like that?

From what I've read, Phrygian (on E) seems to be the logical choice for primary mode.  Ockeghem did not leave any instructions, which is one reason why the mass (along with others of his) to have caused so much to be written about it. There are other masses of his which are probably more controversial, e.g. Missa mi-mi, than this one.

Ockeghem was a very interesting composer.  I will have to dig into his work more after just the little I've read this morning.

BTW, in my reading I learned that my assumption about the Lydian mode was all wrong for the Medieval period.  They would have most often flatted the B, creating an F Major key, instead treating it as we do with the modern Lydian mode which emphasizes the augmented fourth degree.

So it appears S&F chose to record the Dorian, Phrygian and Lydian, with the flatted fourth.  Not as interesting, imo, as either choosing the Mixolydian or leaving the fa alone in the Lydian.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 09, 2017, 08:50:15 AM
Ockeghem has become the mass composer I listen to and enjoy the most.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 12, 2017, 01:52:59 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 25, 2013, 10:53:35 PM
Anyone read this? Care to comment on how accessible it is to someone with little formal training in musical analysis?

(http://c379899.r99.cf1.rackcdn.com/9780521036085.jpg)

Very accessible - historical/biographical study of Machaut's years at Reims, little in the way of musical analysis.  She is the strongest on the issue of the mass endowment although she has come under some criticism for her translation of the plaque in order to make her argument stronger.  So, I am not sure I entirely trust her scholarship, but she writes a lot on Machaut and seems to be generally respected.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 12, 2017, 02:33:23 AM
I am thinking of buying the five volumes of the Lassus Biographie musicale.  Seems Presto is the best place to find them.


Question: I've read that the early volumes get off to a slow start.  But Singer Pur is featured on much of the music, so I ask, are all five volumes worthwhile?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 12, 2017, 02:35:20 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 12, 2017, 01:52:59 AM
Very accessible - historical/biographical study of Machaut's years at Reims, little in the way of musical analysis.  She is the strongest on the issue of the mass endowment although she has come under some criticism for her translation of the plaque in order to make her argument stronger.  So, I am not sure I entirely trust her scholarship, but she writes a lot on Machaut and seems to be generally respected.

What does the plaque say inFrench?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 12, 2017, 02:40:06 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 12, 2017, 02:35:20 AM
What does the plaque say inFrench?

It's in Latin, and her translation of one word, something like "petitionium" has been called into question.  Apparently it is a legal term and she translates it more like a personal petition by the brothers.  Nonetheless the book is a good read and offers a lot of information.  Her book and the one by Elizabeth Eva Leach compliment each other and both would be good to have for anyone who is especially interested in Machaut.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 12, 2017, 03:04:00 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 12, 2017, 02:33:23 AM
I am thinking of buying the five volumes of the Lassus Biographie musicale.  Seems Presto is the best place to find them.


Question: I've read that the early volumes get off to a slow start.  But Singer Pur is featured on much of the music, so I ask, are all five volumes worthwhile?

Oh, definitely!  :)

Here are the ensembles featured in the five volumes :
I) Ludus Modalis/Bruno Boterf;
II) Singer Pur;
III) Egidius Kwartet & College/ Peter de Groot;
IV) Odhecaton/ Paola Da Col;
V) Vox Luminis/ Lionel Meunier

Can't make any sense of the "slow start" comment....  The volumes by Ludus Modalis and Singer Pur are actually extremely successful IMO.
If anything, the slightly Italianate angle and larger forces employed by Odhecaton took somewhat getting used to...
But I played that recording the other week, and found it splendid.
So it's all good. :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 12, 2017, 03:47:52 AM
Quote from: Que on February 12, 2017, 03:04:00 AM
Oh, definitely!  :)

Here are the ensembles featured in the five volumes :
I) Ludus Modalis/Bruno Boterf;
II) Singer Pur;
III) Egidius Kwartet & College/ Peter de Groot;
IV) Odhecaton/ Paola Da Col;
V) Vox Luminis/ Lionel Meunier

Can't make any sense of the "slow start" comment....  The volumes by Ludus Modalis and Singer Pur are actually extremely successful IMO.
If anything, the slightly Italianate angle and larger forces employed by Odhecaton took somewhat getting used to...
But I played that recording the other week, and found it splendid.
So it's all good. :)

Q

I'm in!  Thanks, I was a little confused by that "slow start" comment as well - odd that Presto chose to include it on their page.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 12, 2017, 06:51:32 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 12, 2017, 03:47:52 AM
I'm in!  Thanks, I was a little confused by that "slow start" comment as well - odd that Presto chose to include it on their page.

Later I realized that it might have something to do with the fact that the series is chronological and therefore starts off with the earliest works, which might for some impress less. Not me, I adore every morsel of Lassus... 8)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 12, 2017, 07:16:57 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 12, 2017, 02:40:06 AM
It's in Latin

Ah, that's a shame, I was looking forward to making my own translation!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 12, 2017, 01:16:01 PM
PALESTRINA Missa Papae Marcelli. Tu es Petrus. Gaudent in caelis. Sicut cervus/Sitivit. GUERRERO Regina caeli. VICTORIA Missa O quam gloriosum. Gaudent in caelis • New York Polyphony • BIS 2203

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81QIwShIZVL._SY355_.jpg)

It is amazing the difference OVPP makes with Palestrina.  I never could enjoy his music as much a I thought it deserved because of the sound of groups like the Papal Choir and Westminster Choir - large choral groups.  This relatively recent recording (August 2016) by New York Polyphony breathes new life into these iconic works, and it is like I am hearing them for the first time.

Highly recommended.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 18, 2017, 04:14:21 PM
This came in last week and I didn't listen past the first 30 seconds of the first track.  This is one case when I should have really read a review before purchasing since it has everything I dislike in early music recordings.  Despite the rave on Music-Web it contained the truly disqualifying pieces of information:

This is a female group singing music specifically for men (this music was "written" by Franciscan monks and sung in their Medieval monastery).  Instruments are used to accompany them (I turned it off after 30 seconds because the first track sounded like new age music to me)

(http://www.brilliantclassics.com/covers/5028421948720.jpg)

I went for the 4-CD set, which was comparably priced for the single disc recordings of the same music and I usually enjoy Brilliant recordings.  The only other recordings are by Ensemble Organum (Corsican singers) and one that while primarily by a male group also uses female voices for some of the pieces.  So, I knew I didn't want the Peres disc and also didn't know anything about the other recording.  This one looked good, four times as much music and a newer recording.  However, I never dreamt it would be done by an all female group.

The Marcel Peres recording exhibits the expected singing style as well as featuring a female soloist, and I haven't heard the other recording but I think it is on Naxos Music Library.

::)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on February 18, 2017, 04:36:18 PM
Might not the music been used by nuns? Which would justify an all female performance although not the instruments.

I was struck by the use of the term "paraliturgical", which suggested something neither fish nor fowl.

The similarity to new age is a risk that comes with the territory. I have started listening to the L'Oiseau Lyre Medieval and Renaissance box.  Perhaps it was a function of the era in which these performances were recorded, mid 80s to early 90s, but what struck me is how much more like modern folk, world music, Celtic music and American bluegrass, than anything so-called "classical", the music of the Middle Ages was.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 18, 2017, 05:06:29 PM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on February 18, 2017, 04:36:18 PM
Might not the music been used by nuns? Which would justify an all female performance although not the instruments.

I was struck by the use of the term "paraliturgical", which suggested something neither fish nor fowl.

The similarity to new age is a risk that comes with the territory. I have started listening to the L'Oiseau Lyre Medieval and Renaissance box.  Perhaps it was a function of the era in which these performances were recorded, mid 80s to early 90s, but what struck me is how much more like modern folk, world music, Celtic music and American bluegrass, than anything so-called "classical", the music of the Middle Ages was.

You might think that the music could have been sung by nuns, but the history is straightforward.  This music is from a manuscript which was created and kept at a specific monastery and sung by the monks there.  "Paraliturgical" is a reference to the texts being hymns praising the figure of Mary but which were not used during any service. 

In the most informative review I've read, but for the Peres recording, J. F. Weber* describes the music as simple monophonic hymn tunes that are repeated for each stanza of the poems, which can go on for 15-20 minutes.  He chides critics who claim this cannot help but become monotonous, hence the attempts to enliven the music.  Peres uses them to construct an kind of "passion play", so his is even less representative, besides his choice of singing style.

These may never see the light of say in their intended form (which was why I was so interested in hearing them).  The 13th century was a more contemplative time, a long way from the MTV jump-cut instant gratification age that we currently occupy.




* I recently discovered he is a Catholic priest, Fr. Jerome, who writes the best early music reviews I've ever read.  He has spent the last 30 years compiling and updating a comprehensive discography of Gregorian chant.  His knowledge of sacred early music is encyclopedic and his taste is in line with my own.  He hasn't written anything about the Brilliant set, but I would love to read his thoughts.  Although he never writes a nasty review, he simply describes the contents and explain how it is nor is not typical for the music. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 19, 2017, 02:47:10 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 18, 2017, 04:14:21 PM
This came in last week and I didn't listen past the first 30 seconds of the first track.  This is one case when I should have really read a review before purchasing since it has everything I dislike in early music recordings.  Despite the rave on Music-Web it contained the truly disqualifying pieces of information:

This is a female group singing music specifically for men (this music was "written" by Franciscan monks and sung in their Medieval monastery).  Instruments are used to accompany them (I turned it off after 30 seconds because the first track sounded like new age music to me)

(http://www.brilliantclassics.com/covers/5028421948720.jpg)

I went for the 4-CD set, which was comparably priced for the single disc recordings of the same music and I usually enjoy Brilliant recordings.  The only other recordings are by Ensemble Organum (Corsican singers) and one that while primarily by a male group also uses female voices for some of the pieces.  So, I knew I didn't want the Peres disc and also didn't know anything about the other recording.  This one looked good, four times as much music and a newer recording.  However, I never dreamt it would be done by an all female group.

The Marcel Peres recording exhibits the expected singing style as well as featuring a female soloist, and I haven't heard the other recording but I think it is on Naxos Music Library.

::)

Quote from: sanantonio on February 19, 2017, 02:25:54 AM
It might be interesting but it is not "the real thing".  Peres added extraneous music from a variety of sources in order to create his "mystery play".  From what I can tell there are only 7 items from the Laudario manuscript.  Then there's the issue of the Corsican singers ...

Ah, I later realised  that might be confusing....sorry about that... :)
I meant hearing real Corsican singers for the first time.

Just read your comments about the Brilliant set.
That Pérès was taking some liberties as well, I was aware. For one, he is using female voices.
Reading through the booklet, Pérès seems rather occupied with countering the monotony of these Laude , which can be lengthy and repetitive in using a single, simple melody for every stanza. The countering of monotony is also connected to the use of the Corsican singers.

All very interesting....
An alternative reading would be that the music itself is, despite its historical significance, is not that interesting? :-\

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 19, 2017, 03:15:43 AM
Quote from: Que on September 11, 2016, 03:07:06 AM
They seem to have been reissued by Naxos:



[asin]B0000014DE[/asin][asin]B00004VXDN[/asin][asin]B000009IMY[/asin]

Unfortunately responses do not seem to be favourable, nor was my own impression upon sampling...
Old fasioned approach and not so well executed....
But then again, I am definitely not a Vartolo fan.

Q

The Mantovane 3-vol. series contains ten masses and I don't think these on Naxos duplicate the masses in the Mantovane series,  (at least I hope not; I ordered all three volumes at an average price of $50/per).  J. F. Weber writes about the Naxos Beate Virgine issue, "Don't confuse this work with the six-voice setting (or with the Marian Masses in the Mantua set)."

I have learned to trust J. F. Weber from Fanfare in early music repertory; he writes about vol. 1, "This is a major addition to collections that already have the principal works of the composer, not to be missed."  He later said about vols. 2 and 3, "I have been waiting anxiously for these issues ever since Vol. I was greeted with considerable acclaim (Fanfare 18:5) ... Vartolo, as before, is content to let the music unfold as naturally and effortlessly as possible. Paola Besutti, who wrote an extensive and informative note for the first set, writes another one, shorter and basically the same for these two sets. The sound of the solo voices with discreet organ accompaniment is captured effectively in the cathedral."   

Also, for me the issue is finding Palestrina masses that I haven't heard before.  He wrote 104, and the same ones keep getting recorded over and over while many great works are left untouched.  Varolo's series made a nice dent in the unrecorded works.  I hope to collect all of them at some point, at least 70 of the 104 have been done so far, and I am not sure how many I lack, but these three volumes were ones I definitely feel good about purchasing.

Re: the three volumes like this one:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41rmb0eH0IL.jpg)

;)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 19, 2017, 03:18:03 AM
Quote from: Que on February 19, 2017, 02:47:10 AM
Ah, I later realised  that might be confusing....sorry about that... :)
I meant hearing real Corsican singers for the first time.


He used real Corsican singers on his Machaut mass recording ...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on February 19, 2017, 03:25:14 AM
The way I understand Laude are religious chants originating in and around Franciscan order but they are not meant to be sung in liturgy, the fact they are written in vernacular Italian makes that sure (that's why the therm paraliturgical, I guess). They were meant primarily for ordinary folk, lay singers and confraternities to be sung during processions and religious festivals, some even in dramatic form. I'm not sure they inherently exclude Corsican (or any other local) style of singing, female singers or even use of instruments.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 19, 2017, 03:56:08 AM
Quote from: Draško on February 19, 2017, 03:25:14 AM
The way I understand Laude are religious chants originating in and around Franciscan order but they are not meant to be sung in liturgy, the fact they are written in vernacular Italian makes that sure (that's why the therm paraliturgical, I guess). They were meant primarily for ordinary folk, lay singers and confraternities to be sung during processions and religious festivals, some even in dramatic form. I'm not sure they inherently exclude Corsican (or any other local) style of singing, female singers or even use of instruments.

The history of these monophonic works is a bit more complex than that.  Originally they were sung by the "confraterities" i.e. monks usually Franciscan, and "[w]hile laude were sung primarily during the services of laudesi and disciplinati companies throughout the 14th and 15th centuries, lauda singing was gradually adopted during this period in other contexts favourable to popular devotion." (Grove)  So it would seem that they began as private group devotionals and then later were used as part of the Franciscan outreach to the local communities in which they were sung by the communities during and after the sermons.

However, early on they were sung privately and when done during the Compline service, a penitential mood was desired with the intention to "move the brothers to tears" and even scourging took place after the singing.

As far as the issue of monotony, it is all in the ear of the beholder, but I would like to hear these sung in their original context, i.e. male singers chanting them in a serious and "dark" manner.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 19, 2017, 04:48:51 AM
A virtually unknown Renaissance composer, Matthaeus Pipelare (c. 1450–c. 1515), gets his second recording of his mass L'Homme Arme and first recordings of three other masses (remarkable!) released in 2016:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51RqvkWmKfL._SS500.jpg)

Paul Van Nevel was the first to find and record this mass (a candidate for worst album covers) from approx. ten years prior:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51F6670TR9L.jpg)

The Sound and the Fury usually do a good job and this is no exception.  The disticntive thing about this mass is the low tessitura in places giving the polyphony a somewhat muddy texture but those sections are not long or many.

Good to have more music from little known composers from this period, and this is apprently volume 1 of Pipelare; if this holds, then there's more to come.

;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JCBuckley on February 19, 2017, 07:24:01 AM
The Sound and the Fury set was released in 2014, rather than 2016. I emailed them a few weeks ago to ask if volume 2 might be in preparation, but had no response. If it does appear, I'll definitely be getting it. I thought volume 1 was outstandingly good.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 19, 2017, 07:49:24 AM
Quote from: JCBuckley on February 19, 2017, 07:24:01 AM
The Sound and the Fury set was released in 2014, rather than 2016. I emailed them a few weeks ago to ask if volume 2 might be in preparation, but had no response. If it does appear, I'll definitely be getting it. I thought volume 1 was outstandingly good.

I was wondering about an earlier release, since this was labeled "remastered".  Thanks for the info about the first release.  It is good to know they are still active, and recording virtually unknown composers to add to the catalog of Renaissance music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 19, 2017, 09:07:47 AM
Quote from: JCBuckley on February 19, 2017, 07:24:01 AM
The Sound and the Fury set was released in 2014, rather than 2016. I emailed them a few weeks ago to ask if volume 2 might be in preparation, but had no response. If it does appear, I'll definitely be getting it. I thought volume 1 was outstandingly good.

Agreed!  :) One of the Sound & Fury recordings I can recommend without hesitation.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 19, 2017, 11:12:12 AM
Tetraktys
Codex Chantilly 1

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0002/886/MI0002886801.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

The first of three (so far) recordings that is supposed to end up including all of the music in the Chantilly Codex.  Judging from the quality of this one I will be getting the rest of the series.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 20, 2017, 07:22:01 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 18, 2017, 04:14:21 PM
This came in last week and I didn't listen past the first 30 seconds of the first track.  This is one case when I should have really read a review before purchasing since it has everything I dislike in early music recordings.  Despite the rave on Music-Web it contained the truly disqualifying pieces of information:

This is a female group singing music specifically for men (this music was "written" by Franciscan monks and sung in their Medieval monastery).  Instruments are used to accompany them (I turned it off after 30 seconds because the first track sounded like new age music to me)

(http://www.brilliantclassics.com/covers/5028421948720.jpg)

I went for the 4-CD set, which was comparably priced for the single disc recordings of the same music and I usually enjoy Brilliant recordings.  The only other recordings are by Ensemble Organum (Corsican singers) and one that while primarily by a male group also uses female voices for some of the pieces.  So, I knew I didn't want the Peres disc and also didn't know anything about the other recording.  This one looked good, four times as much music and a newer recording.  However, I never dreamt it would be done by an all female group.

The Marcel Peres recording exhibits the expected singing style as well as featuring a female soloist, and I haven't heard the other recording but I think it is on Naxos Music Library.

::)

I found this recording in my collection that I had forgotten about:

Laudarium - Songs of Popular Devotion from 14th Century Italy

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/A1JMqfZLySL._SY355_.jpg)

Much more enjoyable to me than either Peres or the female group.  But in sampling deeper into their 4-CD set, it gets better, so it was not a wasted purchase after all.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: PeterWillem on February 26, 2017, 08:01:41 AM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 19, 2017, 11:12:12 AM
Tetraktys
Codex Chantilly 1

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0002/886/MI0002886801.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

The first of three (so far) recordings that is supposed to end up including all of the music in the Chantilly Codex.  Judging from the quality of this one I will be getting the rest of the series.
For me, this set of (three so far, I presume) recordings was a matter of big disappointment. Tempos here are so slow that it makes those lively songs lifeless.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 27, 2017, 08:23:44 AM
I've always pronounced Ockeghem's name as "AH-k'ghem" but I recently read somewhere that it is more correctly said "OH-kay-ghem" or even "oh-KAY-ghem".

Can anyone shed any light?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JCBuckley on February 27, 2017, 09:21:44 AM
This seems to be the native pronunciation: https://forvo.com/word/ockeghem/
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 27, 2017, 09:48:03 AM
Quote from: JCBuckley on February 27, 2017, 09:21:44 AM
This seems to be the native pronunciation: https://forvo.com/word/ockeghem/

Thanks. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 27, 2017, 12:11:36 PM
Here lately I've been listening to music mostly from the Renaissance period: lots of Palestrina, with sprinkles of Lassus, Victoria, Gombert, etc. What I have discovered is that while I prefer OVPP groups in Medieval repertoire, for the Renaissance works I prefer the have the parts doubled, e.g. 3VPP, or 2VPP.  Even a large choir like the Westminster Cathedral Choir has been very enjoyable to hear singing Palestrina and others since they will reduce the singers down for different sections and it offers a very pleasing variety of texture.  The only exception is I also very much enjoy smaller groups doing Palestrina in a "madrigal style".

But for anything from Dufay and before, OVPP still is my preferred way to hear the music.

Anyone else have this kind of preference?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chord on February 27, 2017, 01:55:01 PM
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-npVG16vjfgU/WKOD00DWRgI/AAAAAAAAC8U/ZpX2Ol7BzssFtciEUj9idbFsSibxeORtQCLcB/s1600/Scan10021.JPG)

http://classicalcompass.blogspot.hu/2017/02/monteverdi-vespro-della-beata-vergine_13.html (http://classicalcompass.blogspot.hu/2017/02/monteverdi-vespro-della-beata-vergine_13.html)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on February 27, 2017, 02:06:10 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 27, 2017, 12:11:36 PM
Here lately I've been listening to music mostly from the Renaissance period: lots of Palestrina, with sprinkles of Lassus, Victoria, Gombert, etc. What I have discovered is that while I prefer OVPP groups in Medieval repertoire, for the Renaissance works I prefer the have the parts doubled, e.g. 3VPP, or 2VPP.  Even a large choir like the Westminster Cathedral Choir has been very enjoyable to hear singing Palestrina and others since they will reduce the singers down for different sections and it offers a very pleasing variety of texture.  The only exception is I also very much enjoy smaller groups doing Palestrina in a "madrigal style".

But for anything from Dufay and before, OVPP still is my preferred way to hear the music.

Anyone else have this kind of preference?

I find that logical.

If you have noticed from the Listening thread, I have been going through the L'Oiseau Lyre Medieval Renaissance box, which is arranged sort of chronologically. I am now up to the late 1400s/early 1500s.  Josquin is recognizably of the soundworld of the Renaissance, whereas Dufay and others are, if not high medieval, at least not Renaissance, especially in secular music.

The difference in performance you suggest would align with that.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 27, 2017, 02:35:55 PM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on February 27, 2017, 02:06:10 PM
I find that logical.

If you have noticed from the Listening thread, I have been going through the L'Oiseau Lyre Medieval Renaissance box, which is arranged sort of chronologically. I am now up to the late 1400s/early 1500s.  Josquin is recognizably of the soundworld of the Renaissance, whereas Dufay and others are, if not high medieval, at least not Renaissance, especially in secular music.

The difference in performance you suggest would align with that.

I got that box recently but have only listened to the first third or maybe a bit more.  It is very enjoyable.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 27, 2017, 09:57:34 PM
Quote from: sanantonio on February 27, 2017, 12:11:36 PM
Here lately I've been listening to music mostly from the Renaissance period: lots of Palestrina, with sprinkles of Lassus, Victoria, Gombert, etc. What I have discovered is that while I prefer OVPP groups in Medieval repertoire, for the Renaissance works I prefer the have the parts doubled, e.g. 3VPP, or 2VPP.  Even a large choir like the Westminster Cathedral Choir has been very enjoyable to hear singing Palestrina and others since they will reduce the singers down for different sections and it offers a very pleasing variety of texture.  The only exception is I also very much enjoy smaller groups doing Palestrina in a "madrigal style".

But for anything from Dufay and before, OVPP still is my preferred way to hear the music.

Anyone else have this kind of preference?

For me it realy depends on type of composer and type of work. As a rule of thumb any anything that predates Renaissance preferably OVPP, I agree.
In Renaissance the Franco-Flemish repertoire often works best in OVPP, particularly the motets. So do the motets by Lassus for instance. Or small setings by Sweelinck.

In Spanish, Italian and English repertoire larger forces work well, but I definitely prefer madrigals with smaller forces. To give a post-Renaisance example: I have the Italian madrigals by Schütz performed two voices per part (Orlando di Lasso Ensemble/Thorofon) - wouldn't want it any other way... :)

Q


Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 28, 2017, 01:57:20 AM
Quote from: Que on February 27, 2017, 09:57:34 PM
For me it realy depends on type of composer and type of work. As a rule of thumb any anything that predates Renaissance preferably OVPP, I agree.
In Renaissance the Franco-Flemish repertoire often works best in OVPP, particularly the motets. So do the motets by Lassus for instance. Or small setings by Sweelinck.

In Spanish, Italian and English repertoire larger forces work well, but I definitely prefer madrigals with smaller forces. To give a post-Renaisance example: I have the Italian madrigals by Schütz performed two voices per part (Orlando di Lasso Ensemble/Thorofon) - wouldn't want it any other way... :)

Q

I don't know those Schütz works (should look them up) but I do think of madrigals (maybe secular works in general) as being for solo voices (with some flexibility, i.e. OVPP or 2VPP, or even one voice with instrumental accompaniment).  My earlier post was concerning sacred music, masses specifically, and having a definite preference for solo voices in Medieval and larger groups for the Renaissance masses. 

But you're right - it is related also to the type of work not necessarily a period specific thing.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 28, 2017, 05:32:17 AM
I don't know if this will confuse or clarify what I have been trying to say, but ...

Quote from: sanantonio on February 28, 2017, 04:53:26 AM
Palestrina : Missa Beata virgine I
Sergio Vartolo | Bologna Cappella Musicale di St. Petronio 

(https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Flastfm-img2.akamaized.net%2Fi%2Fu%2F300x300%2F11fac0bbfa8c4163b1bf795cc2c4b98d.jpg&f=1)

Sergio Vartolo has recorded more than a dozen Palestrina masses in solo voice male group performances, some with discreet organ accompaniment.  I like all the ones I've heard very much - the men singers are excellent and the polyphony is crystal clear offering the best way to appreciate Palestrina's craft. 

Some of the masses appear on Naxos but most, ten Mantuan masses, were released on Bongiovanni and quickly went OOP.  It can be confusing since Missa sine nomine appears on both iterations, but the Naxos mass is for 6 voices whereas the other recording is of the 4 voice mass.  Similarly the Beata virgine I, which shows up on both sets, are different recordings.

So, yes, I think Palestrina done OVPP is fantastic.  I guess my discovery regarding my own preferences is that while I really only want to hear Medieval works done OVPP,  Renaissance masses sound good to me with OVPP or a mid-size ensemble or full choir. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 28, 2017, 11:57:18 AM
Nice video of The Sound and the Fury singing Pierre de la Rue

https://www.youtube.com/v/r0XxREaz_JU
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 04, 2017, 11:57:11 PM
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on March 03, 2017, 12:09:51 AM
Found Gesualdo on my mind tonight and listening to him now, his music is so divine. I can't help thinking about space, the "heavens" and a lot of existential stuff with his music, there's a profundity not too unlike Stockhausen's mid-late works.

I'll probably already know some of your suggestions but what do you recommend as far as unpredictable, chromatic and majestic early music?  :)

I've been asked this question before by someone who loved Gesualdo's most chromatic music, and it's really hard to answer just because Gesualdo in that mode is a sort of extreme case. You could listen to madrigals by Luca Marenzio and the earlier books of madrigals by Monteverdi,  but they aren't as shocking as Gesualdo (though I have to say that I enjoy Marenzio and Monteverdi more than Gesualdo.)

One line worth exploring is the movement called Ars Subtilior, if you search it in this forum you'll see a certain amount of discussion. Composers like Solages. This music was experimental both rhythmically and harmonically, and in a decent performance you should hear the same sense of pushing boundaries that you hear in some Gesualdo.

If you want to check early instrumental music which explores chromaticism, let me know and I'll think about it.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on March 05, 2017, 02:11:02 AM
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on March 03, 2017, 12:09:51 AM
Found Gesualdo on my mind tonight and listening to him now, his music is so divine. I can't help thinking about space, the "heavens" and a lot of existential stuff with his music, there's a profundity not too unlike Stockhausen's mid-late works.

I'll probably already know some of your suggestions but what do you recommend as far as unpredictable, chromatic and majestic early music?  :)
Orlando di Lasso's Prophetiae Sibyllarum
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on March 05, 2017, 06:18:05 PM
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on March 03, 2017, 12:09:51 AM
Found Gesualdo on my mind tonight and listening to him now, his music is so divine. I can't help thinking about space, the "heavens" and a lot of existential stuff with his music, there's a profundity not too unlike Stockhausen's mid-late works.

I'll probably already know some of your suggestions but what do you recommend as far as unpredictable, chromatic and majestic early music?  :)

This set is worthy of a purchase, alien:

[asin]B01L32LU7K[/asin]

Also, have you heard John Zorn's madrigal recording?  I think you would like it very much.

Cheers!  :)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 06, 2017, 02:28:29 AM
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on March 05, 2017, 06:20:36 PM
Oh yes please Mandryka! Any suggestions are appreciated  :)

Try Christopher Stembridge's recording called "Consonanze Stravaganti"

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chord on March 06, 2017, 12:59:02 PM
It's a Balestracci's one.
Outstanding.

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/007/MI0001007980.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 06, 2017, 01:48:33 PM
Quote from: chord on March 06, 2017, 12:59:02 PM
It's a Balestracci's one.
Outstanding.

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/007/MI0001007980.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

I shall try to hear it as what little I've heard of Italian viol music I've liked.

I was thinking of suggesting to Thatfabulousalien some music for Lyra Viol, maybe he would appreciate some of the things in the Naxos recording of The Manchester Viol Book, or some of the Lyra Viol music Dunford and Savall recorded.

By the way, I very much enjoyed that Mexican Mass recording by The Harp Consort you posted the other day, I'd never heard it before.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chord on March 07, 2017, 08:54:31 AM
Please be careful, it's not a conventional approach.
That part of Spanish Kingdom - I mean Naples - was really non-conventional part of the Early Music empire either.

Here is a Pergolesi's Stabat Mater, I say 'non-conventional' and I say 'excellent'.
I wrote a detailed article about it; I am afraid you won't understand...
http://komolyzeneiajanlo.blogspot.hu/2016/09/feljegyzesek-egy-kapucinus-kolostorbol.html (http://komolyzeneiajanlo.blogspot.hu/2016/09/feljegyzesek-egy-kapucinus-kolostorbol.html)

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-z42I-OevI7M/V-vD74DVeGI/AAAAAAAACAY/HZHJe14pFzExu8CBbJcspZf4I-W4rQEJwCLcB/s1600/Scan10080a.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 09, 2017, 12:09:39 PM
Quote from: chord on March 07, 2017, 08:54:31 AM
Please be careful, it's not a conventional approach.


I see what you mean. Thanks for leading me to it.

Quote from: chord on March 07, 2017, 08:54:31 AM
I am afraid you won't understand...


I regret to say that you are right.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on March 13, 2017, 05:51:51 PM
An interesting new CD coming from Musica Fiata of Monteverdi's Vespers - of 1650, not 1610:

(http://www.treffpunktmusikshop.de/images/product_images/bild/0889853751327-0300px-001.jpg)

I found this info on Presto Classical:

QuoteClaudio Monteverdi, whose 450th birthday is being celebrated by the world of classical music in 2017, was one of the most important composers in the history of music. His impressive output had a major influence on the course of music history and still thrills listeners today with the incomparable quality of his compositions. One of his greatest sacred works is Vespro della Beata Vergine from 1610, yet there is another excellent work which has been overlooked until today: the Vespers for the Blessed Virgin from 1650. This work stands out for its wide range of affects, astounding vocal and instrumental combinations, its richness of virtuoso coloraturas as well as its stark musical contrasts. In this setting, Monteverdi creates a unique connection between the polyphonic style of the Renaissance and the wide range of affects characteristic of Baroque style. In addition, a special feature of this work is that instead of the antiphons customary at the time, the music publisher Alessandro Vincenti added not only Monteverdi's Motets from 1624, but also five outstanding works by contemporary composers: Giovanni Rigotti (1613–1648), Alessandro Grandi (1577–1630) und Massimiliano Neri (1623–1673). This recording by the singers and musicians of Capella Ducale and Musica Fiata directed by Roland Wilson makes an outstanding contribution to Monteverdi's 450th birthday.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on March 16, 2017, 08:05:28 PM
Cross post from the Listening thread

[asin]B01MSWBUN8[/asin]
Well recorded, and the minimal forces (OVPP, I'm pretty sure) make the melodic and contrapuntal lines very clear to the ear.  Buy it, listen to it, put some paper over the cover so you can forget how ugly the cover is.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: chord on March 20, 2017, 06:45:43 AM
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zqwFVq9pzPw/WLA0giBhwjI/AAAAAAAAC_s/vRKWnwRQMdohmXXfrKGWo8Kg8KHXZS_8ACLcB/s1600/cover.jpg)

https://youtu.be/dGItwxVxrv8
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on March 22, 2017, 05:08:57 AM
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on March 22, 2017, 12:08:24 AM
I'm starting to be really interested in Oswald Von Wolkenstein's music  :)

I've heard a bunch of his pieces/works on YouTube and they have quite a big replay value  8)

This CD is well worth picking up if you can find it at a reasonable price:

(http://www.sequentia.org/images/recordings/wolkenstein_l.jpg)

Sequentia seem to have a reputation as pretty much the gold standard in Medieval music performance, and I can see why. Not a single recording I've heard by them has been anything less than excellent.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on March 22, 2017, 06:05:16 AM
Quote from: Mr. Minnow on March 22, 2017, 05:08:57 AM
This CD is well worth picking up if you can find it at a reasonable price:

(http://www.sequentia.org/images/recordings/wolkenstein_l.jpg)

Sequentia seem to have a reputation as pretty much the gold standard in Medieval music performance, and I can see why. Not a single recording I've heard by them has been anything less than excellent.

It is contained in this nice box, which soon may be OOP:

https://www.amazon.de/Sequentia-Various/dp/B00LJGAMYI/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1490191364&sr=1-1&keywords=sequentia
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on March 22, 2017, 06:58:56 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on March 22, 2017, 06:05:16 AM
It is contained in this nice box, which soon may be OOP:

https://www.amazon.de/Sequentia-Various/dp/B00LJGAMYI/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1490191364&sr=1-1&keywords=sequentia

It is in that set, but I believe those DHM boxes include no notes, and, more importantly, no sung texts or translations. That's something I always find really annoying, as it makes it impossible to know what on earth the songs are about. That makes for very frustrating listening. I can understand it on a disc of mass settings, as the Latin text and English translation are easy enough to find, but with most early music discs that's not going to be the case. Imagine listening to the Bordesholmer Marienklage from the Sequentia box with no text in front of you - it's ridiculous, but sadly it's become increasingly common.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 24, 2017, 10:00:26 AM
Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on March 22, 2017, 12:08:24 AM
I'm starting to be really interested in Oswald Von Wolkenstein's music  :)

I've heard a bunch of his pieces/works on YouTube and they have quite a big replay value  8)

I have two things to say about Wolkenstein. One is that it really helped me to look at the texts. Some of the music I like the most are long autobiographical songs and it's great to follow the events in his life as he sings  them.

And second there's a bloke who sings them with a hurdy-gurdy who's really memorable, called Eberhard Kummer. You may also enjoy studio der fruhen musik's recording and Rainer Bohm's Ensemble Alta Musica Wolkenstein Cd. I can't remember the sequential CD above, I may never have heard it in fact. I'll dig it out later.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: PeterWillem on April 05, 2017, 12:27:47 PM
(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571179490.png) (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571179988.png) (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571281155.png)

I'm not able to not take a listen of any of these records at least once every week. This is the medieval music sang in a way I really adore: lively and with honest passion. Recording quality is excellent. Often in recordings of this repertoire voices are drowned in reverb but thankfully, this records are completely free of this. Other examples of this close-microphone sound could be: Dufay recordings by Ensemble Musica Nova or by Cut Circle (both recommended).

Unfortunately, only 3 volumes of Conductus were planned (which is understandable since this kind of music is a perfect example of niche of music business). I think, I know all tracks of by heart now.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Artran on April 10, 2017, 03:55:22 AM
What's your sources of translated medieval and renaissance motets, chansons etc.? I'm digging through these periods, but because I'm on Spotify I don't have CD booklets (which kinda sucks).

EDIT:
I've just discovered that Hyperion Records (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk) is a great source of original texts and the translations. For every vocal or choral track is available an original text and the translation can be viewed alongside. This is how every record label should do it. It's perfect!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: mszczuj on April 19, 2017, 03:23:10 AM
I'm looking for the booklet of this release:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/815-Ngb4QWL.jpg)

https://www.discogs.com/Capella-Antiqua-M%C3%BCnchen-Konrad-Ruhland-Ars-Antiqua-Organum-Motette-Conductus-Fr%C3%BChe-Mehrstimmigkeit/release/10070820

I need information about sources and performers of all the tracks,  if there are any in it, as I have got my box without a booklet.

Could anybody help me?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on April 19, 2017, 09:14:43 AM
Quote from: mszczuj on April 19, 2017, 03:23:10 AM

I need information about sources and performers of all the tracks,  if there are any in it, as I have got my box without a booklet.

Could anybody help me?

Voilá.... :)

http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/tld9530.htm

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: mszczuj on April 19, 2017, 11:57:41 PM
Quote from: Que on April 19, 2017, 09:14:43 AM
Voilá.... :)

http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/tld9530.htm

Q

Thank you Que, its useful but I still hope to find the readable version of this:

(https://www.picclickimg.com/00/s/MTEyOVgxNjAw/z/NAYAAOSwYmZXEOqh/$/SAWT-9530-31-Ars-Antiqua-Fruhe-Mehrstimmigkeit-Konrad-_1.jpg)

I suppose that the last lines in descriptions of single tracks are about manuscripts which are sources of them.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JCBuckley on April 20, 2017, 12:37:52 AM
How about this? -  https://www.flickr.com/photos/hansthijs/27043358701/
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: mszczuj on April 20, 2017, 03:47:16 AM
Quote from: JCBuckley on April 20, 2017, 12:37:52 AM
How about this? -  https://www.flickr.com/photos/hansthijs/27043358701/

Still not exactly what I'm looking for, as it is information I've got from there: http://www.worldcat.org/title/ars-antiqua-fruhe-mehrstimmigkeit-organum-motette-conductus/oclc/870099177 but at least somebody who once had got the booklet!

Thank you!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on April 24, 2017, 04:12:07 PM
Due out later this week, The Sixteen's Selva Morale CDs released as a set:

(http://www.europadisc.co.uk/images/products-190/1491494254_COR16156.jpg)

Anyone familiar with these discs and how they compare to other recordings? I'd also be interested to know what The Sixteen's Vespers is like.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: king ubu on April 28, 2017, 04:53:13 AM
Quote from: mszczuj on April 19, 2017, 11:57:41 PM
Thank you Que, its useful but I still hope to find the readable version of this:

(https://www.picclickimg.com/00/s/MTEyOVgxNjAw/z/NAYAAOSwYmZXEOqh/$/SAWT-9530-31-Ars-Antiqua-Fruhe-Mehrstimmigkeit-Konrad-_1.jpg)

I suppose that the last lines in descriptions of single tracks are about manuscripts which are sources of them.

Just zoom in there ... or open it here - hard to read the bottom lines, but the rest is pretty okay:
https://www.picclickimg.com/00/s/MTEyOVgxNjAw/z/NAYAAOSwYmZXEOqh/$/SAWT-9530-31-Ars-Antiqua-Fruhe-Mehrstimmigkeit-Konrad-_57.jpg (https://www.picclickimg.com/00/s/MTEyOVgxNjAw/z/NAYAAOSwYmZXEOqh/$/SAWT-9530-31-Ars-Antiqua-Fruhe-Mehrstimmigkeit-Konrad-_57.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: TheGSMoeller on May 09, 2017, 05:04:20 PM
Only went back a few pages, so I apologize if it's been discussed before...
I recently purchased this disc and have instantly fallen in love with it...

[asin]B00A2CL6SQ[/asin]

I haven't heard the recording by Cinquecento on Hyperion, is it worth the buy? How is it compared to the Huelgas Ensemble?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on May 09, 2017, 10:37:44 PM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 09, 2017, 05:04:20 PM
Only went back a few pages, so I apologize if it's been discussed before...
I recently purchased this disc and have instantly fallen in love with it...

[asin]B00A2CL6SQ[/asin]

I haven't heard the recording by Cinquecento on Hyperion, is it worth the buy? How is it compared to the Huelgas Ensemble?

Both interpretations are worthwhile to have. I have to say that after comparing, the van Nevel is the best choice. He simply lets the music breath more, and the intensity of singing has more spiritual baggage. His choir has a better balance. There is a sort of breathless immediacy, and subtlety, that gets you by the throat.  Refinement is also part of the success of the Huelgas ensemble. Mystic contemplation to the extreme. Better buy them both.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on May 09, 2017, 10:40:23 PM
Quote from: Mr. Minnow on April 24, 2017, 04:12:07 PM
Due out later this week, The Sixteen's Selva Morale CDs released as a set:

(http://www.europadisc.co.uk/images/products-190/1491494254_COR16156.jpg)

Anyone familiar with these discs and how they compare to other recordings? I'd also be interested to know what The Sixteen's Vespers is like.

The singing culture of the Sixteen is a acquired taste. First sample if you find that to your liking. Harry Christopher has some unusual approach towards the use of females in his choir, and the way he works with dynamics.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: TheGSMoeller on May 10, 2017, 02:49:41 AM
Quote from: Harry's corner on May 09, 2017, 10:37:44 PM
Both interpretations are worthwhile to have. I have to say that after comparing, the van Nevel is the best choice. He simply lets the music breath more, and the intensity of singing has more spiritual baggage. His choir has a better balance. There is a sort of breathless immediacy, and subtlety, that gets you by the throat.  Refinement is also part of the success of the Huelgas ensemble. Mystic contemplation to the extreme. Better buy them both.

Thanks, Harry, for your response.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on May 10, 2017, 03:39:54 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 09, 2017, 05:04:20 PM
I haven't heard the recording by Cinquecento on Hyperion, is it worth the buy? How is it compared to the Huelgas Ensemble?
I haven't heard the Huelgas Ensemble disc, Greg, but that Cinquecento disc is wonderful, and not just for the Requiem, but the other pieces by Josquin & others. I'd like to know what Harry means by the Huelgas having a better balance - the Cinquecento recording has each voice of the polyphony audible, and, really, immediacy and subtlety are not something I find lacking in there either. Obviously the Huelgas will have a 'fuller' sound. But take a listen to the samples (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA67959).
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: TheGSMoeller on May 10, 2017, 03:47:02 AM
Quote from: North Star on May 10, 2017, 03:39:54 AM
I haven't heard the Huelgas Ensemble disc, Greg, but that Cinquecento disc is wonderful, and not just for the Requiem, but the other pieces by Josquin & others. I'd like to know what Harry means by the Huelgas having a better balance - the Cinquecento recording has each voice of the polyphony audible, and, really, immediacy and subtlety are not something I find lacking in there either. Obviously the Huelgas will have a 'fuller' sound. But take a listen to the samples (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA67959).

Thanks for the samples, Karlo. I'm fairly sure ill order the Cinquecento recording soon.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on May 10, 2017, 03:57:00 AM
Quote from: North Star on May 10, 2017, 03:39:54 AM
I haven't heard the Huelgas Ensemble disc, Greg, but that Cinquecento disc is wonderful, and not just for the Requiem, but the other pieces by Josquin & others. I'd like to know what Harry means by the Huelgas having a better balance - the Cinquecento recording has each voice of the polyphony audible, and, really, immediacy and subtlety are not something I find lacking in there either. Obviously the Huelgas will have a 'fuller' sound. But take a listen to the samples (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA67959).

First of all I have the Cinquecento recording too, and I confirm you opinion about them. What I meant with a better balance in the Huelgas ensemble, is the balanced between the individual voices, and their tonal blending. I have a slight preference for it. But this said I think one should have both recordings.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on May 10, 2017, 04:02:53 PM
Quote from: Harry's cornerThe singing culture of the Sixteen is a acquired taste. First sample if you find that to your liking. Harry Christopher has some unusual approach towards the use of females in his choir, and the way he works with dynamics.

Thanks for the reply. I have Christophers' much earlier Vespers (the one on Hyperion) and I quite like it, but it uses a very unusual performing edition and may not be directly comparable to other versions. I have a lot of recordings of the Vespers and several Selva Morale sets, so shelling out for Christophers' sets would only be worth it if I thought they were really outstanding. The samples I've heard sound good, but not that good. Maybe worth consideration if I see them going at a reduced price somewhere.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on May 14, 2017, 12:23:11 AM
A short note on this:

[asin]B006SQ72RE[/asin]

Despite a raving review by Amazons "Gio" aka Giordano Bruno, this misses for me the ultimate mark of total satisfaction, but only just.
Please read his review and the others linked below. This is another example of a trend away from "slow and reverential" and towards a very "up close and personal" style in OVP (one voice per part) and swift tempi. Which is generally fine by me, and I am impressed by this ensemble's vocal abilities and - in contrast the The Sound of the Fury - perfect balance and blending of voices.

I have however.... a few reservations. Firstly, some movements of the Ockeghem Requiem, which is here performed sec without liturgical context, seem to have transposed upwards. A practice defended/ explained in the booklet. The result is unfortunately at times a hooty countertenor feast....nothing against counter tenors in general but they shouldn't dominate.... This performance certainly doesn't make me forget the account by Ensemble Organum  (with added liturgical context on Harmonia Mundi). Last but not least, emotionally the performances are not very giving, touching, if you will. They are pretty stern and abstract, dour.. I've read in another comment (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/customer-reviews/R6T0YCH7JZ45D/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B006SQ72RE), which seems to reflect my feelings best. This severity also applies to the performance of De la Rue's requiem, though for me that is much more enjoyable. Nevertheless I will seek out the recording by the Ensemble Janequin (Harmonia Mundi).

Other recent recordings by this ensemble have been praised more unanimously (also here),  so I'm not giving up in them yet.. .. :)

Review by Johan van Veen (combined with a critical review of a recording byThe Sound of the Fury) HERE (http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/Ockeghem_DelaRue.html)
Fanfare review at ArkivMusic (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=712664)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on May 31, 2017, 04:22:14 PM
Has anyone else got this?

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0004/241/MI0004241246.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)


I got it recently and noticed a low buzzing in the opening track on the first disc. I can't hear it in online samples so I briefly wondered if I had a faulty disc but I think the buzzing is too regular to be a fault - it's not present in the opening chant, occurs in the fanfare, disappears in the quieter sections and reappears when the fanfare recurs, so I assume it's a particular instrument which only plays during the fanfare sections. Anyone know what it is?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on June 04, 2017, 12:57:37 AM
Quote from: Neil Asuolubaftaht on June 03, 2017, 07:59:10 PM
Man I love Lassus  :D

(https://img.discogs.com/AUQRw1NLN8RnnrBEqQvmSuGQCOI=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-1660589-1235205926.jpeg.jpg)

His music is very important to me (alongside Gesualdo, Machaut, Perotin and Ockeghem)  8)

Oh yes, another Lassus fan!  :)

A strong favourite of mine as well, one of the most eminent Early Music composers.

Speaking of which, I see Josquin Desprez is still missing on you shortlist...some more to explore!

Coincidentally, I'm planning to look into available recordings of the Prophetiae Sibyllarum - how is the Junghänel?  :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on June 04, 2017, 05:45:34 AM
Quote from: Que on June 04, 2017, 12:57:37 AM
Oh yes, another Lassus fan!  :)

A strong favourite of mine as well, one of the most eminent Early Music composers.

Speaking of which, I see Josquin Desprez is still missing on you shortlist...some more to explore!

Coincidentally, I'm planning to look into available recordings of the Prophetiae Sybillarum - how is the Junghänel?  :)

Q
Hm, this reminds me, I must remember to put this recording on my shopping list before it goes OOP.

[asin]B000N4SA3M[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 20, 2017, 12:13:59 AM
On amazon.com there's a discussion around a review of Walter Testolin's Missa Gaudeamus (Josquin) where someone says



Quote from: Gio https://www.amazon.com/review/R1WL3WJHZQMDQT/ref=cm_cd_pg_pg2?ie=UTF8&asin=B000E1P21W&cdForum=FxNQ68RZL1NOEX&cdPage=2&cdThread=TxAATWVRW5I0MD&store=music#wasThisHelpfulYoung men with exceptional musical ability, whose voices broke at about 16 - 18, would work very hard to continue singing in a treble register, either 'naturally' or outright falsetto, since they were thus in demand. There was a 'class' of altos, men or course, called "Capuaners", who worked on singing across the break between chest tenor and falsetto alto, with as little obvious 'shift' as possible.


Is this correct?


The same person also asserts


QuoteChoristers got PAID especially to sing the ordinaries of masses when donations were made

Has anyone seen any records of this? I wonder if he's thinking of votive masses which were sponsored, Where did this happen? Were the names (and hence the genders) of the singers who received some money recorded?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on July 31, 2017, 01:23:39 AM
Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on July 31, 2017, 01:13:29 AM
We've moved onto baroque now and still didn't discover any early composers  ???

I guess being a compulsive listener, means that I'm bound to discover anything eventually  >:D
Did you look into this yet? (and their Monteverdi)
Quote from: HIPster on March 05, 2017, 06:18:05 PM
This set is worthy of a purchase, alien:

[asin]B01L32LU7K[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: millionrainbows on July 31, 2017, 09:21:32 AM
What is it about early music that makes it appeal to some, and not to others? Is it because it is not as harmonically developed?

I listened to some pieces from my John Dowland box the other day, and while he is pleasant, the music seems to cycle in little circles harmonically, it doesn't have much forward momentum. I like earlier stuff like Hidegard better, precisely because it is less developed in terms of forward movement. It sounds like Dowland is stuck in the middle somewhere. Maybe that's the 'folk' element?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 31, 2017, 01:28:19 PM
I saw someone's work today on vibrato used by different singers, Emma Kirkby, Jussi Bjorling, Jantina Noorman, Alfred Deller, Russel Oberlin. The work was scientific - you know, it looked at the wave forms of the notes they produced.

Anyway, one key idea is the "romantic" singers in fact used vibrato all through a note, and early music singers used vibrato only at the end - after they'd established the tone very clearly for the listener by singing it white, they tended to add expression at the end by doing a bit of vibrato.

The whole area is interesting, it was a major preoccupation of Micheal Morrow. We listened to some things that Musica Reservata  did with madrigals, very strange things. I have to say that the more I get to know about performing early music the stranger it is, and the whole interrelationship between orientalism, medievalism, folk music and . . . machaut, troubadours, Dufay  . . .  gets more obscure the more I know! I can certainly see how someone may want to devote their whole life to it.

Vibrato, I was told, is linked to volume. Part of what Murrow was investigating was non 19th century ways of helping a singer be loud. Of course he was interested in what they do in Bulgaria, but one person, a Bulgarian, said that much of  the music that he took for authentic was in fact a Soviet creation, and real Bulgarian folk music sounds nothing like it. I thought that was quite funny.

Bulgaria chosen randomly as far as I can see - just as Pérès chose Corsica randomly and Binkley chose North Africa randomly. Basically anywhere out of the influence of the romantic west would do for an "alternative" singing style for early music.

Anyway it's made me interested in the area again and I've just ordered Andrew Parrott's book on composers' intentions, which seems to have been well received by scholars.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 31, 2017, 01:32:55 PM
Quote from: millionrainbows on July 31, 2017, 09:21:32 AM
What is it about early music that makes it appeal to some, and not to others? Is it because it is not as harmonically developed?

I listened to some pieces from my John Dowland box the other day, and while he is pleasant, the music seems to cycle in little circles harmonically, it doesn't have much forward momentum. I like earlier stuff like Hidegard better, precisely because it is less developed in terms of forward movement. It sounds like Dowland is stuck in the middle somewhere. Maybe that's the 'folk' element?

Re Dowland, the thing that makes me interested is the subtlety of the idea of melancholy, and the way he tried to express all those different types of melancholies in music - you need to read his preface to the Lachromae to see what I mean, it used to be easy to find online.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on August 01, 2017, 01:49:05 PM
Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on August 01, 2017, 01:40:33 AM
(Lots of extended listening to) Renaissance music is doing strange things to me  ???

Like?   :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on August 01, 2017, 03:29:44 PM
Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on July 31, 2017, 01:13:29 AM
We've moved onto baroque now and still didn't discover any early composers  ???

I guess being a compulsive listener, means that I'm bound to discover anything eventually  >:D

Are you familiar with the Ars Subtilior? If not, you might find it well worth investigating. It's known for its rhythmic complexity and quirkiness, so as you're a fellow Cardiacs nut it might well appeal. When I was introducing a Cardiacs fan to early music a while back he found the Ars Subtilior pieces particularly to his liking, as I thought he might. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on August 02, 2017, 03:11:35 AM
Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on August 02, 2017, 02:27:31 AM
Sort of, sort of not. I know some of Baude Cordier's music but I'm still having a major exploration at the moment. Hit me up with any suggestions?  ;)
This.
[asin]B00SBVHEY0[/asin]
https://www.youtube.com/v/X2IoIjDxqQI

Oh, and you should hear this disc of Josquin & his followers' music.

[asin]B008B3P4FO[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Drasko on August 02, 2017, 03:18:30 AM
Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on August 02, 2017, 02:27:31 AM
Hit me up with any suggestions?  ;)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31dIA-bHF2L.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51wIWX3vVaL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 02, 2017, 04:46:40 AM
Quote from: Mr. Minnow on August 01, 2017, 03:29:44 PM
Are you familiar with the Ars Subtilior? If not, you might find it well worth investigating. It's known for its rhythmic complexity and quirkiness, so as you're a fellow Cardiacs nut it might well appeal. When I was introducing a Cardiacs fan to early music a while back he found the Ars Subtilior pieces particularly to his liking, as I thought he might.

What I've found is that this quirkiness and complexity tends to get smoothed over in performance. Only a few recordings bring out the avant garde element of the music, Pérès is one I think, as is Schmelzer,  maybe also some of the things Nevel has done, though I haven't heard that CD Drasko posted, the one I know is called Febus Avant.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on August 02, 2017, 07:18:15 AM
Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on August 02, 2017, 02:27:31 AM
Sort of, sort of not. I know some of Baude Cordier's music but I'm still having a major exploration at the moment. Hit me up with any suggestions?  ;)

I'd definitely recommend those already mentioned, as well as these: 

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/124/MI0001124621.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)   (https://www.cede.ch/covers/cd/1142000/xl1142126.jpg)

(https://diablusinmusica.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/ciconia-motets-virelais-ballate-madrigals-alla-francesca-opus-111.jpg)   (http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/005/MI0001005354.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51PbfJ59mbL._SY355_.jpg)    (http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/imgs/s300x300/4596202.jpg)

As Mandryka says, Peres' disc is one that really brings out the rhythmic quirkiness and complexity. However, even the less rhythmically pronounced recordings still have a lot going for them IMO. We don't have a vast quantity of CDs to choose from in this music, to put it mildly, so I decided to grab what I could when I could, and I'm glad I did. I don't have a single Ars Subtilior disc that I've regretted buying.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 02, 2017, 08:49:19 AM
A very different approach from Ensemble Organum is from Tetraktys, who are probably the most up to date and complete performers of music from the Chantilly Codex. Tetraktys are sensual and languid, Orlando are vigorous and austere, Ensemble Organum are physical and visceral.

My own introduction to this music was through the Project Ars Nova disc above, and I still love it. I remember then listening to Orlando Consort and being completely disorientated! Now I can see it's a great great piece of music making, though there's something about the sound quality of the recording I don't care for. It's not a warm sound.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 03, 2017, 01:06:00 AM
Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on August 02, 2017, 11:14:25 PM
I've noticed this same issue with Perotin and Gesualdo. Maybe it's just me but early music (maybe due to being... Early) suffers from interpretation problems, composer to composer?

There are indeed special difficulties about making sense of early music. This has led people to do lots of fun experiments to escape from the hegemony of romantic singing and playing  - for example they may look to different cultures to find traditional ways of making music and inject those ideas into their performances of (e.g.) Solage and Machaut. And because the traditions which are inspiring them are far flung - from Bulgaria to Algeria  - the results sound very different.

Another aspect is a certain unwillingness on the part of performers to sing in a historically informed way, and they let their imaginations take flight.  People may underestimate what we can say with confidence about early music. I'm reading a book about this at the moment by Andrew Parrott called "Composers' Intentions?" - recommended!

And a third aspect is that it just may not be possible for people to do it like they did it in medieval times because people have changed and techniques have been lost for ever. Male voices break earlier, for example, which means that you can't get mature men (18 year olds) singing high - you have to use women or countertenors. The different work rounds to practical problems give rise to a different sound.

Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on August 02, 2017, 11:15:32 PM
I've just been sleeping and I'm barely awake but I'll get back to your comments, great to see quite a lot  ;D

Early music is a really lively area right now, theoretically and practically - my impression is that there are more exciting things going on with it, new ground being broken, than with baroque, classical or C19 and C 20 music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 05, 2017, 10:45:53 AM
Michael Morrow, "Musical Performance and Authenticity", Early Music, Volume 6, Issue 2, 1 April 1978, Pages 233–246

By musical performance I mean the general and particular problems of performing styles, old and new—and I interpret authenticity both in its real sense and in the contemporary cult meaning of the word.

I suppose it is valid for my purpose to classify Western music (at least) into two categories. First, and most familiar, is that music capable of surviving almost the worst performance: for instance, the works of such composers as Josquin, Monteverdi, Beethoven and Berlioz. though I once heard a recording of Monteverdi's Lamento d'Arrana sung by a German contralto with continuo by Carl Orff realized—if that is the appropriate word—for four hands (or fists) on one harpsichord: Monteverdi's masterpiece was completely obliterated, no mean achievement.

The second category, however, is the one that creates so many problems of performance—most of them insoluble. Here, the listeners' enjoyment of the music is largely if not completely dependent, not merely upon technical skill, but more significantly upon the performer's familiarity with the particular musical style of his own time, place and social position.

Where there is no surviving tradition—and performing style is something that can only be learned by imitation, not from books—any piece of music, medieval, renaissance, baroque, what you will, offers the modern performer the potentiality of countless possibilities of interpretation: one medieval piece for instance, could be played in a dozen ways and the result would almost certainly appear to be twelve quite different pieces of music. Of course, one of these performances could, by sheer chance, be more or less historically correct. But how are we now to judge which? And supposing a medieval or renaissance listener could hear a modern performance of a chanson by Binchois or a Dowland lute solo, for instance, would he say (I 'Use modern English of course) 'How can anyone ruin such fine music in this way ?'; or would he exclaim 'What the hell is that? Some Moorish barbarity no doubt.'

In monophonic music, subtleties of musical style are particularly critical. The unaccompanied singer or instrumentalist has the sole responsibility of focusing an audience's attention, and in order to achieve this, he must be able both to make use of every rhythmic and melodic nuance in his technical vocabulary, and to exploit his talent for improvisation and ability to memorize. Most renaissance writers on music stress the fact that the performer was expected to exploit his technique not merely for aesthetic reasons but in order to astound his audience by his skill. The modest per-former was not generally admired.

Many of these traditions survive to the present day in the remoter parts of' Europe. In many regions of the Balkans, for instance, the epic ballad, like the medieval lai, is still part of modern rural life. These songs are performed at ceremonial occasions—weddings and so on—by the descendants of the medieval minstrel: proud men who regard their art with high serious-ness. These ballads are no brief interludes in the village festivities. Like their medieval equivalent, the narrative, dealing with most subjects, from the slaying of dragons to the massacre of CIA agents, will generally last for many hours, as may be heard, for instance, on many of the fine recordings made by A. L. Lloyd.

As a method of preserving monophonic music, notation, medieval or modern, is almost worse than useless—and it is not too helpful either for poly-phonic music. Indeed, early in this century, Bartok insisted that folk music could only be preserved adequately on gramophone record, otherwise the essential elements of performance would be lost. Although folk music—or most non-European art music—conveys little or nothing when committed to paper, today we at least have the tape machine to record the subtleties of performance.

But in the case of medieval song—the monophonic works of the troubadours, trouveres and minne-singers, an impressive number of which have survived—the possibility of' reconstructing a performing style containing any element that might be familiar to a medieval listener is so remote as to be, in my opinion, not worth the attempt. The notation of these songs indicates the pitch but not the duration of the notes, and the total absence of oral tradition provides a musicological puzzle—but a puzzle without a solution. Of course, if one is prepared to manufacture one's own rules—knitting your own middle ages as Thurston Dart put it—one may construct a rhythmic style derived from a personally inspired logic or the product of assured but arbitrary conviction, and then, of' course, the music can be performed. But the result, far from bearing any resemblance to medieval performing practice, may be a species of quasi-composition and a musical performance that diminishes the composer and glorifies the modern performer.

Folk music, unlike western art music, is not conceived in terms of musical notation, but in terms of exceedingly idiosyncratic performing styles. This innocence of notation was also a feature of minstrel music before the early years of the 16th century. On the other hand, polyphonic music from the middle ages to the present day has been intimately associated with the development and changing styles in musical notation. But, as every folklorist knows, even the most sophisticated notational systems are incapable of indicating the essentials that make a performing style: however inspired the music, written notes are mere symbols; a musical performance is an act of creation, and without the performer music does not exist. Lacking a convincingly stylish performance, much fine music may often appear tasteless or meaningless. And yet, while a traditional melody, for instance, can all too easily be reduced to bastardy, it can also be trans-formed into a pleasing drawing-room ballad or an elegant art song.

In recent years there has been a most heartening advance in the knowledge of the construction of renaissance instruments, particularly stringed instruments, though viol makers seem to be conducting a muted war over what actually constitutes a renaissance viol. Mass producers of harpsichords have now realized that in order to sell their machines they must call them 'Italian model', `Ruckers model', and so on.

Few makers of renaissance instruments today seem to recognize the existence and the importance of what they would term transitional forms. They appear not to consider that there must always have been at the same time archaic forms, transitional forms and the latest models. This is as though a naturalist were to say: the prehistoric eohippus evolved into the horse as we know it today. Between the two there existed other horse-like creatures; but these, of course, were merely transitional forms.

The human voice, on the other hand, has the ability to produce virtually any sound imaginable. Unfortunately, singers (and their public) today and through the ages have always maintained that there is only one valid vocal style—their own. Some time ago a friend of mine was at a lecture on singing and, as an illustration, the speaker played a recording of Melba : the audience giggled. In a few years time a similar audience will almost certainly be reduced to hysterics by a recording of Kathleen Ferrier singing Kindertottnlieder.

Even provided one had exact evidence of lost vocal styles. one would need first to convince the singers no mean task instruct them and then educate the audience. For there are two things most audiences and all music critics abhor : non-conventional singing and non-conventional violin-playing. With crumhorns, of course. anything goes.

One still needs to insist that for the music of any period an appropriate vocal style is absolutely essential. I recently remarked to a friend of mine that, unlike the well-known tarted- up performance of the medieval Play of Daniel—a performance that included a fire-eater, lots of amusing instruments, jolly dances and featured modern vocal techniques—in order to perform a miracle play all one really needs is a few medieval singers. This is demonstrated in a Folkways recording (FE 4538 A/B) of a Portuguese passion play where, as in the Middle Ages, scenes are mounted on a horse cart and take place in the open air. The singing is not particularly sophisticated but it is remarkable for its intensity of conviction.

With several very happy exceptions, I have always found it difficult to work with singers. This is partly due to my ignorance of 20th-century vocal technique: articulation from the diaphragm rather than the throat, expression by means of the eyebrows instead of the voice. I find it hard to come to terms with the British baritone—beef to the heels like a Mullingar heifer—singing Captain Stratton's Fancy at 9.30 on a fine BBC morning; the gorgeous contralto-tenor turning his best profile to the audience; the soprano attacking a high note like a screech owl pursued out of a tunnel by an express train. There seem, however, to be signs that this post-war breed of singers is gradually being put out to grass. But I wish I felt a little more confident about the stylistic conventions of their successors.

I fear that to any singer this may all appear offensive: I assure you it is not intended to be. After all the human voice can and should be the most perfect of instruments—expressive and agile, and was tradition-ally so regarded. The fact is that most singers occupy a curiously ambiguous position in the musical world—something between musician and actor. Perhaps the difference is that, while the instrumentalist can take an objective view of his technique in relation to his instrument, the singer's instrument, like that of the actor, is himself: to criticize a singer's technique is to criticize him, and this is hard for him to accept. The instrumentalist may come on to the platform, scowl at the audience, ignore it, sit down and play; the singer or the actor, on the other hand, must project himself to the audience and, however well he has performed, if he doesn't sense that the audience is adoring him he feels he has failed utterly.

Today musical authenticity is a subject for serious consideration. But, though the connection between music and the theatre has always been close, the attitude of the modern theatre to historical authenticity is that of a rather shifty lip-service. Any expression of the view that poetry, even Shakespeare's poetry—especially Shakespeare's poetry—could benefit even remotely from authenticity of pronunciation, of acting styles, authenticity of music or design, would be summarily rejected. Great poetry is for all time; Shakespeare is no more or no less Shakespeare in doublet and codpiece than he is in blue jeans. A well-known Shakespearean scholar once told me that if' we could be transported to an original performance of a Shakespeare play we would be bored rigid ! Great publicity is made these days of the latest 'authentic' Shakespeare theatre: apron stage; awfully Elizabethan sets and musicians playing pop versions of olde Elizabethan numbers on a preposterous conglomeration of' shagbuts, crumhorns and rebecs. But the actors? Any consideration of 16th-century conventions of declamation or pronunciation would be to them unthinkable.

Singers have exactly the same reactions to the idea of 16th-century pronunciation as do actors. While they feel that 15th-century English, say, is a funny old language and are quite prepared to pronounce it as they are told, 16th-century English is a different matter. Being accustomed to editions in modern spelling they naively suppose it to be modern English.

Though very far from claiming to be an expert on this subject, I recently had occasion to read through the texts of the Dowland Ayres with a young American singer who was anxious to learn about contemporary pronunciation. In the modernized spelling of the Fellowes editions it was immediately apparent that 20th-century pronunciation had completely destroyed the verse: again and again the stress was on the wrong syllable, rhyme was debased—`war' and 'star', 'speak' and 'break', to take two examples that occur many times. One might ask what is a rhyming couplet that does not rhyme?

Singers, like actors, defend these anachronisms by maintaining first that the language is modern English, and should be pronounced as such for the sake of intelligibility (presumably for an audience of halfwits); and second, quite unjustifiably, that they will not only lose face, but be laughed off the platform. Both singers and actors have a morbid fear of losing rapport with their audience. How refreshing it is to work with instrumentalists. who so often ire both interested and enthusiastic about acquiring new, and to them often outlandish. techniques.

The importance of the relationship between words and music GUNK* be over-emphasized. A distinguished musicologist recently said to me that the 13th-century- rondeau would never have been per-formed in full, but only in an abbreviated form, as it otherwise would have been too boring. Now, like so many of the other fixed verse forms, the rondeau form is in fact fixed. Its effect on the listener is a very subtle blend of verse and music. To cut the calculated verse-refrain juxtaposition in order to present a snappy snippet is insulting to everyone—poet, composer and audience.

In order to form some idea of past vocal styles it seems to me valuable, it not essential, to familiarize oneself with the enormous variety of sounds that the human voice can produce, with the many highly sophisticated vocal techniques that are found in traditional musics throughout the world. It should be remembered that although a good voice may be the result of a fine technique, it can—and should—also have that indefinable quality to move the listener. And this quality need not necessarily spring from a flawless technique--indeed by its conviction it can often over-ride technique altogether.

As a warning against the belief that the expression of emotion in music is something universal, I'd like to refer to a Yugoslav folksong, sung by a woman accompanied by a bagpipe. The melody is beautiful and very moving—a lament, you would say. In fact it is a satirical song about women marrying young husbands.

I'm all too aware that I have touched rather lightly on the way in which old music should be played, stressing, rather, the reasons why virtually any modern attempt to perform medieval or renaissance music can be at best merely a more or less successful counterfeit—a sort of dud five-pound note, or in many cases a wooden dollar. Though perhaps some might prefer the word pastiche as sounding more optimistic. In recent years the emergence of the old-music virtuoso has done much to encourage the manufacture of counterfeit performing styles. One finds performer after performer adopting the same mannerisms, mannerisms based on no known historical practice, but merely in imitation of a hero's personal idiosyncrasies.

Performing old music as I do, I continually find myself questioning my motives. They are certainly difficult to justify, but I think the reasons, for what they are worth, are twofold. First, my concern with the music is so obsessive that when I am working I can believe that it really is possible to produce a performance that will have all the excitement of the real thing—a conviction that can sometimes even persist throughout the course of a concert. It is so easy to hear the ideal in one's head rather than the disappointing actuality in the concert hall. But reflection leads inevitably to disillusionment and, consequently, I'm afraid I rarely listen to gramophone records of old music, my own or anyone else's. For me, recordings that give pleasure are those of musicians performing with confidence in a style they were born to.

The second is the reason that one reads the classics, looks at paintings and sculpture, attends the theatre: in this way we can share—though in a limited manner—the feelings, emotions and ideas of men of other ages and other civilizations. But we must never forget that in any age the artist is addressing himself to his contemporaries, and his language is composed of a system of familiar conventions—musical, visual or literary. If we don't or can't learn these languages, the conventions will be as meaningless to us as the hand gestures of an Indian dancer are to the average western audience.

We must attempt to approach the arts of the past from the inside or at least from a sense of familiarity, difficult to achieve in 20th-century Europe. This is, alas, the age of the found object, rather than the created object—an attitude towards art uneasily trans-planted from ancient Japanese tradition into the world of Madison Avenue, where it takes its place in a neat and profitable package that uneasily combines Zen-without-tears with health food guaranteed to make you thin, pale, weak but spiritual. I suspect that we are living in an age of cultural parasites, an age that includes early music bores such as myself.

What then about all these first modern really authentic performances proclaimed by the record companies and so many concert handbills? Nonsense. All this means is an `imaginative reconstruction', 1970s style, featuring a few novelties that are the per-former's interpretation of the translator's idea of what some 16th-century writer was attempting—usually unsuccessfully—to describe. This is not authenticity. Authenticity can only mean the real thing; and no modern performance of any music of the past can sustain such a claim, any more than a bunch of European enthusiasts, however knowledgeable and skilled, would be capable of giving an authentic performance of an Indian raga. Use of the word Indian. like medieval, renaissance and baroque, constitutes an automatic disqualification.

As well as a convenient catchpenny commercial label. I suspect that. for the devotee of what is now termed 'earl,/ music', the word 'authenticity' has acquired a special meaning, a meaning less precise—less rigid, perhaps—than that given in the OED, but nevertheless one that successfully defines a musical quality, the presence or absence of which is instantly apparent to the early music initiate. To the general public, however, this usage can often be both confusing and misleading; rather as the casual mention of nakers, which would leave an early music percussion player unperturbed, might cause a raised eyebrow or two in less esoteric circles.

The early music vogue has added a third class of concert-goer to the London musical world. The traditional light/serious music distinction has now been superseded by pop/serious/early music. One result of the emergence and popularity of the early music scene is the serious effect on the romantic violinist or pianist who, until quite recently, regarded the music of the 18th century as an important part of his repertory. Many players who felt this music to be their special province now find that the vogue for `historically correct' instruments and instrumental styles for baroque music is no longer merely the whim of a few old music cranks, but is increasingly becoming accepted—indeed, insisted upon—by audience and critic alike. Unless he is prepared to risk public ridicule or is fortunate to have a name and reputation that will shield him from criticism, the traditionally trained violinist must renounce his favourite Handel sonatas, the pianist the keyboard works of Bach and Scarlatti.

For the early music man this is, of course, victory: virtue has triumphed. But is this really so? Is there not a place for both styles of performance? Furthermore, how much resemblance does modern baroque bear to baroque baroque? Who knows?—or, rather, who really knows? If one had the option of listening to, say, a Handel concerto grosso performed in the really lush assured style generally admired in the 1930s and 40s, or a modern baroque reconstruction of the same work (in which the listener's attention may only too often be diverted from the music to the desperate concentration of players striving to reproduce accurately all the unfamiliar mannerisms—notatable and un-notatable—that their conductor has assured them constitute the real authentic baroque style) which performance would one choose to attend ?

Like those Handel violin sonatas and the Bach and Scarlatti keyboard pieces I referred to, many musical works have retained their popularity for generations and also retained their freshness in the face of changing fashions of performance. Yet, if' authenticity can only mean the style in which the music was conceived, and if there is only one valid style for each piece of music, it seems to me that we are in danger of condemning out of hand the sensibilities of a not in-considerable number of distinguished musicians and some hundreds of thousands of intelligent music lovers of the past—condemning them, moreover, tor their belief in the superiority of the fashions of their own time over all others: a delusion, certainly, but one that through the ages has been the prime inspiration for all the works of art.

It is well known that Italian and French music was greatly admired in Germany during the early years of the 16th century. It would be interesting to know exactly how conversant the average 16th-century German musician was with Italian and French styles of performance; surviving evidence suggests that what little information he possessed was often gravely misinterpreted. The poor devil just didn't know any better. So we are left with the interesting possibility that 16th-century Germany produced some of the earliest examples of unauthenticity in the performance of 16th-century music, a point worth considering and one, surely, with a certain relevance to the subject of authenticity.

A neat problem is presented by the Roman de Fauvel. This is a long allegorical verse satire dating from the second decade of the 14th century. The manuscript contains a large number of musical interpolations or glosses on the text, some monophonic, some polyphonic, some evidently chosen for a fortuitous relevance to a particular episode in the poem, others specially composed to amplify the literary text. The Roman de Fauvel is not only an important and remark-able poem, it is also in effect a unique anthology of medieval music drawn from a period spanning 150 years. And although during this century and a half musical notation had undergone many changes, all the music in the Roman de Fauvel is written in the short-lived form of notation current at the time the manuscript was compiled. As this system, clearly, indicates certain rhythms that were impossible to represent in earlier notations, it would seem reasonable to suppose that all the pieces in this manuscript were intended to be performed in the style current during the early years of the 14th century, with no thought at all for antiquarian authenticity. It is interesting to observe that the notation has been further modernized by a later scribe, thus superimposing on the music yet another style of performance.

Two further questions about authenticity. First, supposing we could be totally familiar with all historical performing styles, how should we approach, for instance, an early work of Dufay ? 'Authenticity' insists that the music must be performed in the style of the time it was written. But would it not have been probable that many instrumentalists, even then. had been trained in a much earlier style of performance. and could well have been reluctant to acquire modishly new techniques? How would Dufay have wished to hear it ? His attitude to performance must surely have changed radically during the course of his life; so which is more authentic, the musical taste of the young Dufay or that of the mature composer?

Secondly and finally, one must realize that a considerable amount of surviving medieval music is found in manuscripts that were compiled many years after the death of the composer. From this one can only conclude that the music was still valued, was indeed probably still being performed; however, like the Roman de Fauvel, it seems most unlikely that these later performers would have considered employing archaic musical styles, styles that they almost certainly would have regarded with contempt. So, where does this leave us today? I really would like to know—and I have no doubt that somehow, somewhere, somebody will be only too anxious to explain to me how simple it all really is.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on August 05, 2017, 11:39:46 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 05, 2017, 10:45:53 AM
Michael Morrow, "Musical Performance and Authenticity", Early Music, Volume 6, Issue 2, 1 April 1978, Pages 233–246

But in the case of medieval song—the monophonic works of the troubadours, trouveres and minne-singers, an impressive number of which have survived—the possibility of' reconstructing a performing style containing any element that might be familiar to a medieval listener is so remote as to be, in my opinion, not worth the attempt.

Not only not worth the attempt, but utterly useless --- anyone listening today is emphatically not a "medieval listener" but a "contemporary listener" for whom the medieval worldview and soundworld is utterly and completely alien, protestations to the contrary notwithstanding. There is nobody alive today, nor will it ever be anybody alive in the future who does or will hear medieval music exactly as the people living the Middle Ages did. It is not enough that, say, Messe de Nostre-Dame be performed exactly as it was performed the first time (assuming such a thing is feasible)--- what is conspicuously missing is its first audience, that is, people with exactly the same mindset and worldview. In this respect, authenticity is a chimera.

I am reminded of an anecdote about the celebrated 19th century French actor Mounet-Sully. He was rehearsing the leading role in a historical play and one of the scenes involved his taking an oath, his right hand on "an old Bible". An ordinary Bible was presented to him. "The text says 'an old Bible', just give me an old Bible!", he shouted with his whole authority. After a while, he was given a 16th century Bible. To which he retorted "Back then, it was brand new!"

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

EDIT: If I'm not mistaken, this anecdote is cited in Igor Stravinsky's The Poetics of Music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on August 05, 2017, 12:28:11 PM
Quote from: Florestan on August 05, 2017, 11:39:46 AM
Not only not worth the attempt, but utterly useless --- anyone listening today is emphatically not a "medieval listener" but a "contemporary listener" for whom the medieval worldview and soundworld is utterly and completely alien, protestations to the contrary notwithstanding. There is nobody alive today, nor will it ever be anybody alive in the future who does or will hear medieval music exactly as the people living the Middle Ages did. It is not enough that, say, Messe de Nostre-Dame be performed exactly as it was performed the first time (assuming such a thing is feasible)--- what is conspicuously missing is its first audience, that is, people with exactly the same mindset and worldview. In this respect, authenticity is a chimera.

I am reminded of an anecdote about the celebrated 19th century French actor Mounet-Sully. He was rehearsing the leading role in a historical play and one of the scenes involved his taking an oath, his right hand on "an old Bible". An ordinary Bible was presented to him. "The text says 'an old Bible', just give me an old Bible!", he shouted with his whole authority. After a while, he was given a 16th century Bible. To which he retorted "Back then, it was brand new!"

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

EDIT: If I'm not mistaken, this anecdote is cited in Igor Stravinsky's The Poetics of Music.

One is reminded of how dirt and layers of lacquer on an old painting - a Rembrandt, lets say - make it look very different than it originally did. While we are also very different from the people who ordered Rembrandt's paintings, I don't find it at all a strange suggestion to try and restore to them what is our best guess of their original condition.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on August 05, 2017, 12:34:18 PM
Quote from: North Star on August 05, 2017, 12:28:11 PM
One is reminded of how dirt and layers of lacquer on an old painting - a Rembrandt, lets say - make it look very different than it originally did. While we are also very different from the people who ordered Rembrandt's paintings, I don't find it at all a strange suggestion to try and restore to them what is our best guess of their original condition.

The analogy is tempting indeed, but ultimately false. There is a reason why they always say "what you see is what you get", but never "what you hear is what you get".    ;D :laugh:

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on August 05, 2017, 12:43:04 PM
Quote from: Florestan on August 05, 2017, 12:34:18 PM
The analogy is tempting indeed, but ultimately false. There is a reason why they always say "what you see is what you get", but never "what you hear is what you get".    ;D :laugh:
It's of course true that with X-ray photoelectron spectroscopy and other techniques it's possible to know every pigment used in a painting, every alteration done to it, and other things. And obviously there aren't quite as effective musicological tools, but there is evidence in the form of e.g. written documents, and instruments, that can offer plenty of hints on how the music sounded. That shouldn't necessarily limit modern interpretations, of course - but before altering a recipe, it's best to learn the original.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on August 05, 2017, 12:48:22 PM
Quote from: North Star on August 05, 2017, 12:43:04 PM
It's of course true that with X-ray photoelectron spectroscopy and other techniques it's possible to know every pigment used in a painting, every alteration done to it, and other things. And obviously there aren't quite as effective musicological tools, but there is evidence in the form of e.g. written documents, and instruments, that can offer plenty of hints on how the music sounded. That shouldn't necessarily limit modern interpretations, of course - but before altering a recipe, it's best to learn the original.

You Westerners / Northerners really do have big difficulties in grasping Eastern / Southern humor...  ;D

... but I still love you all!  :-*
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on August 05, 2017, 01:46:59 PM
Quote from: Florestan on August 05, 2017, 12:48:22 PM
You Westerners / Northerners really do have big difficulties in grasping Eastern / Southern humor...  ;D

... but I still love you all!  :-*
It's true, my mother's onions never elicit much of a reaction from me.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 06, 2017, 10:15:31 AM
Quote from: Florestan on August 05, 2017, 11:39:46 AM
Not only not worth the attempt, but utterly useless --- anyone listening today is emphatically not a "medieval listener" but a "contemporary listener" for whom the medieval worldview and soundworld is utterly and completely alien, protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.



Sure, what medieval people meant is inevitably opaque to me. But for me, understanding what a non-English speaker means is also full of  indeterminacy and inevitably guided by guesswork.  And maybe the same is true for understanding anyone -- even if you share a language in some sense and you're contemporaries.  It doesn't follow that understanding isn't possible, just that it's always open to revision.

This made me think of Willard Quine's work on the indeterminacy of translation in Word and Object and elsewhere.

Quote from: Florestan on August 05, 2017, 11:39:46 AM
Not only not worth the attempt, but utterly useless ---

I suddenly thought of the reconstruction of The Globe in London. I don't know if you know about it, it's basically a reconstruction of Shakespeare's theatre, and the company which works there were committed, at least at the start, to exploring original performance practice -- males taking women's parts, musical intervals etc. At first it gave rise to a huge creative energy, and I'm sure I don't just speak for myself I think when I say that what they did with Richard II  and The Tempest and Twelfth Night was unforgettable, a fabulous original creative event.

Similar things have happened in early music performance. One example is in Machaut. The presentation of the mass with the propers of the  mass chanted  changes the experience, and I think it is very stimulating to hear it like that. Another is using proper harpsichord and organs to play on, with proper ornaments etc -- I'm thinking of Leonhardt really.

So no, I don't agree with Morrow that it's "not worth the attempt" or with you that it's "utterly useless." 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on August 06, 2017, 10:35:52 AM
I think I formulated it in an obscure way. What is useless is not the attempt at performing it "the way it was performed back then", a legitimate and interesting endeavor, but the hope or belief that this will made it be received the way it was received back then. We might have a "genuinely medieval" performance but we will never have a "genuinely medieval" audience.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 06, 2017, 10:46:21 AM
Quote from: Florestan on August 06, 2017, 10:35:52 AM
I think I formulated it in an obscure way. What is useless is not the attempt at performing it "the way it was performed back then", a legitimate and interesting endeavor, but the hope or belief that this will made it be received the way it was received back then. We might have a "genuinely medieval" performance but we will never have a "genuinely medieval" audience.

I think it's a really interesting thought, and in a way I wish I had more time and a better context to explore it. I'm sure that you're right, and that the role of the listener is really important to understanding what goes on in interpretation, people don't think about it enough. It's a big big area.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 07, 2017, 12:12:07 AM
This is Taruskin on Gesualdo in The Oxford History of western Music. He's discussing the idea that the invention of "an imaginary, heroic history of visionary prophets" (Lasso → Gesualdo → Wagner → Stravinsky, or something of the sort) and has obscured rather than illuminated the actual historical and cultural conditions that
nourished their various activities."

QuoteThere is little to be gained in complaining that the disproportionate interest we now take in Gesualdo's chromatic madrigals, at the expense of his sacred music or his
instrumental dances or any other less spectacular side of his output, is "a mistaken overemphasis," as Bianconi so
challengingly puts it.16 Our modern (mis)understandings of the past are not mistakes but the products of changed
historical conditions. We value in Gesualdo something his contemporaries could not have valued, because we know
what they (and he) did not—namely, their future, which is now our past. That knowledge can hardly be erased from
our consciousness. So what interests us now bespeaks our condition and no one else's. No amount of historical learning can replace new
understanding with old understanding. All one can hope to do is add depth and detail to our misunderstanding. (That
is where the sacred music and the instrumental music can usefully fit into even the most biased modern appreciation of Gesualdo. If that seems a paradoxical thing to say, that has been precisely the intention.)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mahlerian on August 07, 2017, 06:35:32 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 07, 2017, 12:12:07 AM
This is Taruskin on Gesualdo in The Oxford History of western Music. He's discussing the idea that the invention of "an imaginary, heroic history of visionary prophets" (Lasso → Gesualdo → Wagner → Stravinsky, or something of the sort) and has obscured rather than illuminated the actual historical and cultural conditions that
nourished their various activities."

Taruskin is always saying things like that in the Oxford History.  He slaughters sacred cows with glee, as long as they don't fit his favored narrative (he is fond of Tchaikovsky and Britten, apparently).  I don't think that Stravinsky, for example, loved Gesualdo's madrigals when he discovered them through Craft because they reminded him of himself, much less of Wagner.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on August 10, 2017, 02:30:59 AM
Re: Authenticity in Early Music Performance

It is an enjoyable but impossible quest since there is simply too much missing information.  Taruskin's point is valid, imo, i.e. the performance practices, especially the HIP kind, reflect not the authentic early period sound but our own modern taste.  Sure we can use replicas of old instruments and learn all we can about the period and what was done, but in the final analysis there is no guarantee that what we produce sounds anything like what was heard in the 16th century.  But it doesn't matter - we still make wonderful music with what we have available.

The analogy made to cleaning a Rembrandt painting is false, since we have the actual work under the dirt and merely need to clean it to restore it back to what Rembrandt made.  This is not the case with early music since all we have are indeterminate scores with little knowledge about how they were interpreted.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on August 10, 2017, 05:06:28 AM
Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on August 10, 2017, 02:43:53 AM
"this is MY music, here's how you NEED to play it"

Nothing could be more α | ì Æ ñ to the medieval mentality than this individualism.  ;D

Quote
So then you are left trying to decide HIP or no HIP  :(

I have decided long ago: I couldn't care less if it's HIP or non HIP; if I like it, it's good.  :laugh:
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on August 10, 2017, 05:18:02 AM
Quote from: Florestan on August 10, 2017, 05:06:28 AM
I have decided long ago: I couldn't care less if it's HIP or non HIP; if I like it, it's good.  :laugh:
My mentality is the complete opposite of this: if it's good, I like it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on August 10, 2017, 05:30:57 AM
Quote from: North Star on August 10, 2017, 05:18:02 AM
My mentality is the complete opposite of this: if it's good, I like it.

How do you know it's good?  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on August 10, 2017, 06:51:44 AM
Quote from: Florestan on August 10, 2017, 05:30:57 AM
How do you know it's good?  :)
I can't be sure..
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on August 10, 2017, 07:00:21 AM
Quote from: North Star on August 10, 2017, 06:51:44 AM
I can't be sure..

Then you can't be sure you ike it, which is to say you really don't truly like anything.  ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 15, 2017, 09:29:25 AM
(http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/12/92/42/38/6port352.jpg)

Jantina Noorman sounds like a fish wife.

What I don't know is whether this approach is as valid today as it was in the 1960s. What do we know about troubador singing?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: millionrainbows on August 16, 2017, 01:28:04 PM
They didn't have toilet paper back then. I bet the actual experience of "understanding" Gesualdo would be horrible, even if he didn't spit on you.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on September 09, 2017, 08:04:24 AM
Cross post from the Listening Thread....


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Jvjk8mfYL._SX355_.jpg)


Great music and performances throughout both vocally and instrumentally. Definitely worth investigating.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: millionrainbows on September 14, 2017, 12:23:47 PM
Just got this yesterday. Very interesting for such old music. Lots of unexpected chord changes, and the occasional searing dissonance. Nice cover, what a handsome young man!

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Ytr0rz8rL._SX425_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on September 19, 2017, 06:03:51 AM
Anyone here got this yet?

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0004/286/MI0004286983.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 19, 2017, 08:00:15 AM
Quote from: Mr. Minnow on September 19, 2017, 06:03:51 AM
Anyone here got this yet?

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0004/286/MI0004286983.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

It's a holistic concept CD

QuoteIn the same way that works of art are framed with the greatest of care, we have taken great pains to find musical frames for the works recorded here; these frames at times introduce the works, at times interconnect them and at times bring something new out of them. Even more important, they act as an invitation to music so that the ears and the conscious mind can be fully awake and liberated at the moment that the art in question first appears.

These frames are specially composed or improvised.

They say something really enigmatic in the booklet

Quote[when preparing le ray au soleil] One experiment led to another, with the result that Le ray au soleyl gradually became the central work of the programme.

It's enigmatic because le ray au soleil is the last song on the CD. Their treatment of it is extraordinary for the way they use instruments, I could hardly believe my ears, it's like Pink Floyd.

There's one song on it which I think has never been recorded before, oncques ne fu si dure partie (Anon). The performance is astonishing on the phrase "Oci, oci, oci: ce cri perfide me dit" Apparently oci is both a bird call and means "kill!"

Julia van Landsberg has a very high tessiture.

Fumeux fume par fumée is given the familiar quasi-dope-smoky treatment.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on September 19, 2017, 08:12:57 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 19, 2017, 08:00:15 AM
It's a holistic concept CD

These frames are specially composed or improvised.

They say something really enigmatic in the booklet

It's enigmatic because le ray au soleil is the last song on the CD. Their treatment of it is extraordinary for the way they use instruments, I could hardly believe my ears, it's like Pink Floyd.

There's one song on it which I think has never been recorded before, oncques ne fu si dure partie (Anon).

Julia van Landsberg has a very high tessiture.

Fumeux fume par fumée is given the familiar quasi-dope-smoky treatment.

Thanks. I'd read something about the musical "frames" so I assumed it would be a concept CD of some sort. Can't say I expected the Pink Floyd comparison though! When you say you "couldn't believe your ears", is that in a good or bad way? Don't get me wrong, I like (most) Pink Floyd, but whether it would work or not in this context is another matter. To be fair, the samples I've heard sound fine so I'm inclined to get this unless you say you thought it was really poor, which would give me pause for thought.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 19, 2017, 08:15:31 AM
Quote from: Mr. Minnow on September 19, 2017, 08:12:57 AM
When you say you "couldn't believe your ears", is that in a good or bad way?

You've got to hear these things for yourself, the only question really is whether you can tolerate her voice. It's only about 10 seconds of Wish You Were Here.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on September 19, 2017, 08:19:58 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 19, 2017, 08:15:31 AM
You've got to hear these things for yourself, the only question really is whether you can tolerate her voice. It's only about 10 seconds of Wish You Were Here.

Her voice sounded OK to me on the samples and 10 seconds of Wish You Were Here doesn't sound like a problem! On to the shopping list it goes.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 24, 2017, 01:36:47 PM
Very interesting programme notes by Alexander Blachly (Pomerium) here, covering Josquin, Obrecht, Lassus, Agricola, Gombert, Isaac . . . the usual suspects.

http://pomerium.us/?page_id=2866
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on October 27, 2017, 03:30:24 AM
A new recording of Medieval vocal music -

(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/691062052924.png)

Parle qui veut - Moralizing songs of the Middle Ages
Sollazzo Ensemble

Recording details: July 2016
National Centre for Early Music, York, United Kingdom
Produced by Philip Hobbs
Engineered by Philip Hobbs
Release date: October 2017
Total duration: 46 minutes 2 seconds




A bit short on playing time, but the ensemble is good.  This is their first recording, and I consider them a group to watch.  The selections come from the late 14th century mainly, with nice mix of composers. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on October 31, 2017, 06:06:13 AM
New release from Graindelavoix:

(http://www.glossamusic.com/glossa/files/References/447/GCD-P32114-HD.jpg)

Presumably the Peres-on-steroids approach of their Machaut disc will not be used for this one? Though with Schmelzer you never know for sure.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on October 31, 2017, 06:13:34 AM
Quote from: Mr. Minnow on October 31, 2017, 06:06:13 AM
New release from Graindelavoix:

(http://www.glossamusic.com/glossa/files/References/447/GCD-P32114-HD.jpg)

Presumably the Peres-on-steroids approach of their Machaut disc will not be used for this one? Though with Schmelzer you never know for sure.

Since I had almost all Graindelavoix recordings this one is on my list as a possible acquisition.
Schmelzer is somewhat of a rebel, but to my ears he never overstepped the mark with a ruinous recording.
The Machaut was something of a highlight for me.
But then I am a great admirer of Schmelzer and his boys. :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on October 31, 2017, 06:20:45 AM
New CD from the excellent Ensemble Peregrina:

(https://media2.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/9079700700177.jpg)

MusikMuseum seems to be a pretty small and obscure label, so maybe not the easiest to find. JPC currently have it in stock though.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on October 31, 2017, 06:26:40 AM
Quote from: Harry's corner on October 31, 2017, 06:13:34 AM
Since I had almost all Graindelavoix recordings this one is on my list as a possible acquisition.
Schmelzer is somewhat of a rebel, but to my ears he never overstepped the mark with a ruinous recording.
The Machaut was something of a highlight for me.
But then I am a great admirer of Schmelzer and his boys. :)

Oh yes, I like them very much as well. I'm glad to have the Machaut disc, even though it's far from my favourite performance of the Messe de Nostre Dame. The only recording I've deliberately avoided buying is the Ockeghem CD. The parts I've heard of that sounded positively cavernous, and each voice seemed to be inhabiting a world of its own, so much so that Ockeghem's intricate polyphony was pretty much obliterated. Maybe the bits I heard were unrepresentative of the disc as a whole, though reviews I've read would suggest not.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on October 31, 2017, 06:39:40 AM
Quote from: Mr. Minnow on October 31, 2017, 06:26:40 AM
Oh yes, I like them very much as well. I'm glad to have the Machaut disc, even though it's far from my favourite performance of the Messe de Nostre Dame. The only recording I've deliberately avoided buying is the Ockeghem CD. The parts I've heard of that sounded positively cavernous, and each voice seemed to be inhabiting a world of its own, so much so that Ockeghem's intricate polyphony was pretty much obliterated. Maybe the bits I heard were unrepresentative of the disc as a whole, though reviews I've read would suggest not.

There you go. the Ockeghem recording was and is also a favourite. The recording on my simple stereo was excellent, so cavernous, no not really. To me the polyphony was intact....
So many ears, so many opinions. ;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on October 31, 2017, 06:47:38 AM
Quote from: Harry's corner on October 31, 2017, 06:39:40 AM
There you go. the Ockeghem recording was and is also a favourite. The recording on my simple stereo was excellent, so cavernous, no not really. To me the polyphony was intact....
So many ears, so many opinions. ;)

To be fair, as I don't have the CD I've only heard parts of it through computer speakers. It might sound very different through a proper hi-fi system. Having read reviews making similar criticisms to my impressions of the parts I've heard I'm reluctant to pay full price for it, but if I see a cheap second hand copy somewhere I'll pick it up.
 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on October 31, 2017, 07:27:08 AM
Quote from: Mr. Minnow on October 31, 2017, 06:47:38 AM
To be fair, as I don't have the CD I've only heard parts of it through computer speakers. It might sound very different through a proper hi-fi system. Having read reviews making similar criticisms to my impressions of the parts I've heard I'm reluctant to pay full price for it, but if I see a cheap second hand copy somewhere I'll pick it up.


This was my review of the disc.

https://walboi.blogspot.nl/2017/01/ockeghem-johannes-c-1410-1497-missa.html


Had a nice conversation with Schmelzer about this recording. He read my words and contacted me. I was really surprised that he found my blog. :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on October 31, 2017, 07:36:22 AM
Quote from: Harry's corner on October 31, 2017, 06:13:34 AM
Since I had almost all Graindelavoix recordings this one is on my list as a possible acquisition.
Schmelzer is somewhat of a rebel, but to my ears he never overstepped the mark with a ruinous recording.
The Machaut was something of a highlight for me.
But then I am a great admirer of Schmelzer and his boys. :)

When I wrote a review of his recording of the Machaut Messe (https://fdleone.com/2017/01/12/taking-liberties-bjorn-schmelzer-machauts-messe-de-nostre-dame/) (the comment exchange appears at the bottom of the page), he responded on my blog with a lengthy comment and we entered into a colloquy that was very instructive and enjoyable .

I too have most of their recordings and have marked this one for purchase.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 31, 2017, 10:12:33 PM
Quote from: San Antonio on October 31, 2017, 07:36:22 AM
When I wrote a review of his recording of the Machaut Messe (https://fdleone.com/2017/01/12/taking-liberties-bjorn-schmelzer-machauts-messe-de-nostre-dame/) (the comment exchange appears at the bottom of the page), he responded on my blog with a lengthy comment and we entered into a colloquy that was very instructive and enjoyable .

I too have most of their recordings and have marked this one for purchase.

Be sure to listen to Mary Berry's Abelard.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on November 01, 2017, 03:23:12 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 31, 2017, 10:12:33 PM
Be sure to listen to Mary Berry's Abelard.

I have that recording and it is wonderful.  Her recordings, collectively, are exceptional examples of how I like to hear this music performed.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on November 26, 2017, 05:43:27 PM
Crossposting the pertinent portion of a post posted in WAYLTN

[asin]B074QHYGFK[/asin]


About the Bauldewyn: it's two CDs, two masses for five voices, one for four voices, one for six voices. Sonics are a bit close, but not too close. The bass voice often comes across as a drone (think of those Russian deep basses). There is no real attempt to blend the outer voices: the usual aural image is the top voice and bottom voice operating independently, with the middle voices singing in parallel or in canon, as an acoustic block between the outer voices. How much of that effect is due to Bauldewyn and how much to Beauty Farm, I can't say.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on November 26, 2017, 09:50:58 PM
Thanks for for your personal notes!  :)

I still have to try this ensemble....

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on November 27, 2017, 05:12:16 PM
Chiara Margarita Cozzolani

Recognized during her lifetime as one of the finest composers in Italy, Chiara Margarita Cozzolani spent her entire adult life within the four walls of the musically famous convent of Santa Radegonda in Milan. Contemporary accounts describe the huge crowds that filled the exterior church of the convent to hear the angelic voices of nuns singing Cozzolani's passionate and ecstatic music.

The Concerti sacri of 1642 are inscribed to the single most important patron of singers in northern Italy, Prince Matthias de' Medici, who seems to have heard Cozzolani's pieces in winter 1641 while on a stay in the city. While this is the only dedication of sacred music to Matthias, he was a generous patron of singers and composers associated with early Venetian opera and established a troupe in Siena in 1646. In the absence of music theatre in Milan until after mid-century, the prince could well have visited the institutions best known for singing - the convents.

The wide variety of topics in the collection point to no single specific occasion for the performance of its contents, other than Matthias's putative visit. The motets represent the most modern style of Lombard vocal writing of the the 1630s and 40s, while the setting of the mass ordinary displays some of the most elaborate imaitative writing found in her music.

Beginning in 2000, Magnificat and Musica Omnia embarked on a project to record the complete surviving works of this remarkable and neglected composer. Magnificat's initial releases reflected the ensemble's commitment to the performance of sacred music within the liturgical context for which it was originally composed. On the triple CD set Vespro della Beata Vergine released in 2001, Magnificat integrated four of Cozzolani's psalm settings, one of her settings of the Magnificat, and six of her motets into the liturgy for Second Vespers for the Feast of Annunciation. On their second CD Messa Paschale released in 2002, Magnificat placed Cozzolani's setting of the Mass and five motets within a liturgy for the Mass for Easter Day. On each CD, Cozzolani's extraordinary music is heard in the context of the chants, prayers and readings proper to the respective feast, as intended by the composer.

Magnificat's CDs of Cozzolani's music are, imo, excellent recordings.  You can hear some on their Cozzolani page: http://music.cozzolani.com/

Also, in November 2002, in commemoration of the 400th anniversary of Chiara Margarita Cozzolani's birth, Magnificat hosted a conference on Women and Music in 17th Century Italy at Grace Cathedral in San Francisco. In additions to two performances by Magnificat, four scholars presented papers on aspects of the role of women in musical life in Italy during the period. Robert Kendrick, whose research has contributed tremendously to our understanding of Cozzolani and the musical culture in Milan in general, contributed this article and has graciously granted permission to repost it here (http://blog.magnificatbaroque.com/2009/11/18/chiara-margarita-cozzolani-in-her-world/).

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on December 10, 2017, 01:51:29 AM
Repost from the WAYLT thread:

[asin]B01B8PTGEQ[/asin]
In a way a pleasant reprieve from the histrionics by The Sound and The Fury, though I still appreciate their Caron set.
Perhaps it is due to the larger forces vs one voice per part, but Van Nevel is considerably more mellow in comparison.
Whether that means it is undercharacterised or not, seems up to personal taste. Two opposite views below!
That me it is very nicely done, good and enjoyable interpretation but not outstanding amongst Huelgas recordings.
You definitely shouldn't regret your recent purchase.  :)

The Egidius Consort, the Gesualdo Consort or Ludus Modalis would know what to do with this stuff and provide a good mean between the two options currently available.

QuoteCARON Twilight of the Middle Ages - Edward Breen

Born in Amiens and named after his town's patron saint, Firminus Caron (c1440-after 1480) was a contemporary of Johannes Tinctoris and Loyset Compère. Little is known about his life but what we do know, and the fact that this disc exists at all, is due to the work of those few tireless musicologists who do so much to bring 15th-century music to our attention. Paul Van Nevel's disc comprises a composite Mass – movements from five of Caron's four-part cantus firmus cycles, including, as one would expect, a L'homme armé setting – a chanson and three rondeaux.

As ever with the Huelgas Ensemble, the unique warm sound, characterised by soft, dark vowels, creates a pleasing sense of unity across the whole album and delivers a smooth and intimate listening experience; Galaxy to the Dairy Milk of British counterparts, if you like. Yet this smooth tone is far from monotonous. Van Nevel frequently draws on groups of solo voices to highlight differences in texture so that his performances of Caron's Mass movements are characterised by such interplay and further strengthened by a bold, firm plainsong line clearly etched into the polyphonic web. Such a staunch cantus firmus is particularly noticeable in the Credo. Caron's surprisingly smooth polyphonic garlands create a flow and fluidity that inspire this ensemble, and when the polyphony cadences they then delight in his remarkably long final chords.

The sublime and despairing rondeau Le despourveu infortuné, one of the most popular in the second half of the 15th century, showcases the ensemble at their best, mourning and yearning with wonderfully judged delicate vocal lines cascading like gentle tears. The contrast could not be greater with their grittier, wittier tone in the delightfully smutty Corps contre corps, where sequential vocal entries reveal a mischievous plan: no-holes-barred [sic] lusty singing from the lower voices and a smooth upper line which makes sense only when you read the text closely...

Quote
E. L. Wisty - It's unavoidable that....

...any review I might write of a recording of works by Firminus Caron is going to be heavily coloured by a comparison to the outstanding "The Sound And The Fury" sets, firstly a single disc with two masses Missa "L'Homme Armé" & Missa "Accueilly m'a la belle" and a subsequent three disc set Firminus Caron - Masses and Chansons presenting all five surviving masses confirmed to be from Caron - including re-recordings of the masses on that earlier disc - plus chansons (interestingly van Nevel in the notes declares himself of the minority opinion that the set of six L'Homme Armé masses in a Neapolitan manuscript are also by Caron, these being usually attributed to Antoine Busnois; there is also an anonymous Missa "Thomas cesus" in the Vatican B80 manuscript which van Nevel regards as being from his pen too).

Paul van Nevel's offering here presents a single movement from each of the five masses, plus four chansons. Sadly it's not a patch on the TSATF recordings - as noted it was never going to be in my opinion - but the mass movements with 3 voices per part are indistinct and the lower voices drowned out by the sopranos. The Gloria from Missa "Jesus autem transiens" is a bit of an exception which fares better, because it is sung with only the male voices and thus with only 2 voices per part as well as not being domineered in the recorded sound by the higher voices. It has to be said that the Huelgas Ensemble are normally rather better than this.

The booklet gives some notes on Caron (what little is actually known about him) and his music (which can get a bit technical). Sung texts and translations are supplied but the two are separated by several pages in the booklet rather than side by side.

If by hook or by crook you can get hold of the aforementioned recordings by The Sound And The Fury I would urge you to do so. This taster of a disc is very much a second best compared to the distinct, balanced, clear and characterful polyphonic lines of the one voice per part ensemble TSATF.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on December 10, 2017, 03:09:09 AM
Quote from: Que on December 04, 2016, 12:43:37 AM
Morning listening:

[asin]B00BGJ5BNK[/asin]

When introduced to this set, I commented on recordings by The Sound and the Fury as "hit or miss". And my point of view hasn't changed. Their recordings can be very frustrating for that reason. I am happy to report to Draško, Mandryka and other watchers of this ensemble that this set is somewhat of a (qualified) hit..... :)
Caveats: live recording, several rough edges...balance issues, not so neat ensemble work, hooty countertenor...

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Name/Firminius-Caron/Composer/172325-1

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/caron-masses-and-chansons

http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/frabernardo_fb1207302.html


Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 10, 2017, 06:25:10 AM
I listened to Nevel in Le despouveu infortuné. It's very sweet, even when they sing

QuoteSur touz je suis mal atourné,
car Espoir m'a le doz tourné,
si va mon faict tout au rebours;
par raison puis blasmer Amours,
quant en ce point m'a ordonné

Its like someone singing Winterreise without any real sense of bitterness.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Josquin13 on December 12, 2017, 08:16:49 AM
When I first heard The Sound and the Fury's initial recording of the music of Firminus Caron, prior to their re-recording and releasing the 2 CD set mentioned above, I was astonished by the high quality of Caron's music.  Clearly, he was one of the giants of the early Renaissance.  It's great to finally have recordings of his music, though I hope these recordings will inspire other groups to record his output, especially any motets & chansons that have not yet been recorded.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 18, 2017, 04:59:56 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/5128o1Zx0kL.jpg)

As far as I know this is the sole recording of sacred music by Matteo de Perugia, is that right? Assuming that it really is authentic trecento music, and not some concoction by Pedro Memelsdorf. It sounds like an Ars Subtilior mass! Very good.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Josquin13 on December 18, 2017, 03:56:06 PM
Matteo da Perugia was the first magister cappellae of the Milan Cathedral, so you'd think there would be sacred music by him.  But, if memory serves, the sacred works on the Mala Punica CD are merely music recycled by Matteo from his secular works (& they sound like it); which Mala Punica selected and assembled into a program.  Otherwise, I can only recall having listened to a "Gloria in excelsis" by Matteo performed by Trefoil (Drew Minter's group).  But I can't off hand remember if that's one of the two Glorias on the Mala Punica CD or not? as I don't have the MP CD handy at the moment.  Otherwise, Matteo may have composed some Laudario works?--or is he too late for that?, and if so, it's possible that a group like La Reverdie has recorded them (as they did record a Laudarium CD).  But I don't recall anything by him, so I doubt it.

[asin]B0001HXTG4[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on December 18, 2017, 10:49:24 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 18, 2017, 04:59:56 AM
As far as I know this is the sole recording of sacred music by Matteo de Perugia, is that right?

What about Van Nevel?  :) (mixed secular/sacred)

(https://i.scdn.co/image/6aecb99858b4792840bc3c8611e02774ef432e40)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 19, 2017, 12:01:22 AM
Here is Pedro Memelsdorff essay on MdP

QuoteHELAS AVRIL
A qui Fortune ne se vuelt amer, maulgre de Ii sans Ole le pormayne

No musical notation could be more precise, intimate and less ambiguous than that used by Matteo do Perugia. And Matteo's fortune — or rather, his awareness of misfortune — seems to be the main reason for such scribal precision. He noted down every chromaticism, every vocal inflection, each tiny ornament and instrumental interlude almost as if he could foresee the oblivion which awaited him, as if he knew that he had to communicate with an extremely distant future. Like bottles sent out on to the ocean of the centuries, Matteo's works were then collected by sluggish modern musicology, which passed summary, superficial judgement on his songs — long before arriving at any real understanding of them.

We now know that although Matteo owes an iconographical and poetic debt to Filippotto da Caserta and Machaut, his vocabulary has no direct models, and is therefore utterly original. In his twenty-five chansons — as well as many mass movements and motets — he created a new musical universe and also devised a system for alternating between the sonorities of sung and played melodic lines. Moreover, Matteo's chansonnier is the largest Italian collection of French songs of the period, and as such the most detailed and best articulated Italian response to northern Ars subtilior.

It is therefore a massive undertaking to try to bring that collection to life. Our version has two significant contributions to offer: firstly, in deciphering the notation of Matteo's 'Peruscino' tonality for the first time, and thus restoring to his melodies (which were initially misread and accused [ in Fab o Fano, La Cappello Musicale del Duomo di Milano, Milano: Ricordi, 1956. ]of being 'conventional, woeful vocalizations' their great expressive force and logic. And secondly, by recreating the original distribution of parts between voices and instruments as given in the principal source, the manuscript ot. M.5,24 in the Biblioteca Estense in Modena (referred to as ModA).

As far as tonality is concerned, the main obstacle lies in the apparent incoherence of the many chromatic signs in ModA (#, b, b ), which have puzzled the few scholars and even fewer performers of 'Peruscino' music in recent decades. Careful study on our part has revealed that the indications in ModA are not in the least incoherent, but follow two distinct and incompatible systems which one copyist mixed together — perhaps unwittingly — when transcribing from two different exemplars. Having established this fact it became possible to reedit the repertory completely for this recording, and as a result many pieces will seem unrecognizable when compared with previous readings. Helas Avril is certainly the clearest example: here it regains all the exoticism of its unusual leaps and abrupt modulations — just as in Matteo's Gloria [En attendant] in fol. 1 v2r of ModA — and thus provides our collection with its title. In short, this new reading greatly reduces the otherwise characteristic flexibility of music ficta, and requires the readerinterpreter to submit to an extraordinary, almost mandatory 'Peruscino' tonality.

As for the combination of voices and instruments, we have chosen to restore their responsorial relationship as prescribed in ModA. The manuscript makes a distinction not only between vocal parts (with text) and instrumental ones (with no text — normally both the tenor and contratenor), but also between sung phrases and instrumental responses within the same melodic line. Such 'horizontal' dialogue ranges from occasional comment (Puisque je sui, Gia da rete d'Amor) to constant alternation between a voice and a 'solo' instrument (Helas Am' and, most of all, A qui Fortune): so as to create a fundamental tension between textual rhetoric and its abstract and numerical musical representation. This might be Matteo's greatest contribution to later styles — from Grenon to Dufay or Binchois.

Of course it was up to us to choose which instruments to use in each case, though iconography suggested fiddles, flutes, harps, lutes and a positive organ. It was also our decision to experiment with the 'silent sections' — what the 'solo' instruments play under the voice and what the voice does during the instrumental interludes — and to offer different solutions in each piece.

As in our previous recordings, we have adopted the pitch of Bologna and northern Italy in the 1450s and 1460s (the earliest for which there is unambiguous documentation) and Pythagorean temperament, except for those cases where the notation of ModA — which also contains 'microtones' similar to those of Marchetto da Padova — calls for sharps even higher than the Pythagorean ones. Our vocal dynamics and agogics follow the illuminating writings of the physicist Nicole Oresme, who collaborated with Philippe de Vitry, the great exponent of Ars nova. Both these figures served as models for Matteo's culture and aesthetics, as well as for his Italian — and highly theatrical —concept of subtilitas.
I should like to thank Dr Chiarelli, director of the manuscript department of the Biblioteca Estense in Modena, as well as Olivier Bettens, for his help with the poetry. Thanks, also, to Enrico Bellei for his warm hospitality, and to our friend Klaus L. Neumann, who kindly assisted us during the recording sessions. And a very special thank you to our sensitive patrons, the German radio WDR and Fondation d'entreprise France Telecom.

Pedro Memelsdorff
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 19, 2017, 12:02:39 AM
Quote from: Que on December 18, 2017, 10:49:24 PM
What about Van Nevel?  :) (mixed secular/sacred)



There is indeed one isorhythmic motet which includes an Agnus Dei:  Ave, sancta mundi salus - Agnus dei. Thanks.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 19, 2017, 12:11:26 AM


Quote from: Josquin13 on December 18, 2017, 03:56:06 PM
Matteo da Perugia was the first magister cappellae of the Milan Cathedral, so you'd think there would be sacred music by him.  But, if memory serves, the sacred works on the Mala Punica CD are merely music recycled by Matteo from his secular works (& they sound like it); which Mala Punica selected and assembled into a program

Well, in his essay which I pasted above Memelsdorff says

Quoteas well as many mass movements

The Missa Cantilena includes these pieces attributed to MdP

Agnus Dei Ave Sancta Mundi Salus
Credo
Gloria En Attendant
Gloria Rosetta
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 19, 2017, 12:19:27 AM
What do the assembled early music mavens think of this idea from  Memelsdorff?

QuoteIn his . . .  mass movements he . . .  devised a system for alternating between the sonorities of sung and played melodic lines.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 19, 2017, 01:56:13 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 19, 2017, 12:19:27 AM
What do the assembled early music mavens think of this idea from  Memelsdorff?

QuoteIn his . . .  mass movements he . . .  devised a system for alternating between the sonorities of sung and played melodic lines.

Alternatim style was not uncommon, with the organ alternating with the voices.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on December 19, 2017, 03:12:04 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 19, 2017, 12:19:27 AM
What do the assembled early music mavens think of this idea from  Memelsdorff?:

In his . . .  mass movements he . . .  devised a system for alternating between the sonorities of sung and played melodic lines.


This does not seem to be directed towards the common alternatim practice (organ verse 1, choir verse 2, organ verse 3 et.c.), but is a question of whether the organ (or other instruments) can alternate with the vocalist(s) in the same verse. I do not know if anybody knows the answer. In Machaut's mass there are a few places, where the writing seems very instrumental, but I doubt if this can be used as an indication of any intended instrumental performance. I have not seen Matteo's scores, so I do not know what Memelsdorff builds his theory upon.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 19, 2017, 03:20:02 AM
Indeed. He says

QuoteThe manuscript makes a distinction . . . but also between sung phrases and instrumental responses within the same melodic line. Such 'horizontal' dialogue ranges from occasional comment (Puisque je sui, Gia da rete d'Amor) to constant alternation between a voice and a 'solo' instrument (Helas Am' and, most of all, A qui Fortune): so as to create a fundamental tension between textual rhetoric and its abstract and numerical musical representation. This might be Matteo's greatest contribution to later styles — from Grenon to Dufay or Binchois.

though it's not clear if this applies to the sacred music.


Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 19, 2017, 04:13:31 AM
I'll just add that in the Missa Cantilena, the Gloria En Attendant, which is attributed to MdP, the instrumental part is very characterful, and there does seem to be a "fundamental tension" between voice and instruments, to use Memelsdorff's rather nice turn of phrase. Not disimilar from what you have in A qui fortune on Hélas Avril. Very exciting  music making from Mala Punica I'd say.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on December 19, 2017, 04:39:57 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 19, 2017, 04:13:31 AM
I'll just add that in the Missa Cantilena, the Gloria En Attendant, which is attributed to MdP, the instrumental part is very characterful, and there does seem to be a "fundamental tension" between voice and instruments, to use Memelsdorff's rather nice turn of phrase. Not disimilar from what you have in A qui fortune on Hélas Avril. Very exciting  music making from Mala Punica I'd say.

In secular music from that age there are no definite indications as to whether a line should be instrumental or vocal, there are only modern theories. And we shall never know for sure. So Memelsdorff's theories may be just as valid as anyone else's. And as to sacred music we only know, that the only allowed instrument in the church was the organ, but we do not know, how it was used in relation to the mass proper, if at all. But if the composer intended a horizontal dialogue between singers and an instrumental part, he most probably meant the organ to be used.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 12:32:22 PM
(http://www.glossamusic.com/glossa/files/References/416/GCD_P32112_front_HD.jpg)

So what we have here is motets by a prolific composer called Jean Hanelle, possibly from Cambrai, all his work collected in a large manuscript in Turin which, up to now, has been dismissed by musicologists as formulaic, mass produced, mainstream, probably written under time pressures, more concerned with medieval scholastic ideas than with expressiveness or beauty.

Then along comes Bjorn Schmelzer, and he says that the manuscript contains some isorhythmic Latin motets  which make a cycle. And I must say it makes a fabulous cycle too! Hallucinatory music  music. No one could say that they are formulaic, mass produced.

So what's happened? The answer is, of course, that Graindelavoix have been been inspired by the texts to liberally add expression to their performances

QuoteIt is the performer who puts this exegetic work into play by articulating these figurae, phrasing the sequential and mnemonic aspects of the isorhythmic formula and creating and integrating cadences with the help of musica ficta which structure the movement and create affective suspense, drive, dynamic. Understanding for the per- former and the listener means being affective and being affected: being moved.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 28, 2017, 02:09:41 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 12:32:22 PM
(http://www.glossamusic.com/glossa/files/References/416/GCD_P32112_front_HD.jpg)

So what we have here is motets by a prolific composer called Jean Hanelle, possibly from Cambrai, all his work collected in a large manuscript in Turin which, up to now, has been dismissed by musicologists as formulaic, mass produced, mainstream, probably written under time pressures, more concerned with medieval scholastic ideas than with expressiveness or beauty.

Then along comes Bjorn Schmelzer, and he says that the manuscript contains some isorhythmic Latin motets  which make a cycle. And I must say it makes a fabulous cycle too! Hallucinatory music  music. No one could say that they are formulaic, mass produced.

So what's happened? The answer is, of course, that Graindelavoix have been been inspired by the texts to liberally add expression to their performances

Is this new?  I must look it up.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 31, 2017, 12:35:09 AM
Here are some letters between Sigiswald Kuijken and Bjorn Schmelzer

http://www.graindelavoix.org/pdfs/musica%20antiqua%20revisited%20english.pdf
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 31, 2017, 12:52:34 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 28, 2017, 12:32:22 PM
(http://www.glossamusic.com/glossa/files/References/416/GCD_P32112_front_HD.jpg)

So what we have here is motets by a prolific composer called Jean Hanelle, possibly from Cambrai, all his work collected in a large manuscript in Turin which, up to now, has been dismissed by musicologists as formulaic, mass produced, mainstream, probably written under time pressures, more concerned with medieval scholastic ideas than with expressiveness or beauty.

Then along comes Bjorn Schmelzer, and he says that the manuscript contains some isorhythmic Latin motets  which make a cycle. And I must say it makes a fabulous cycle too! Hallucinatory music  music. No one could say that they are formulaic, mass produced.

So what's happened? The answer is, of course, that Graindelavoix have been been inspired by the texts to liberally add expression to their performances

Quote from: San Antone on December 28, 2017, 02:09:41 PM
Is this new?  I must look it up.


I did not realize at first that this is the 2016 recording Cypriot Vespers (your image was hard to read).  I have this in my collection and like most of Schmelzer's recordings I enjoyed it for a while before the sound becomes strident and I don't listen anymore.  But I should listen again since it's been probably a year since I last put it in the player.

Quote from: Mandryka on December 31, 2017, 12:35:09 AM
Here are some letters between Sigiswald Kuijken and Bjorn Schmelzer

http://www.graindelavoix.org/pdfs/musica%20antiqua%20revisited%20english.pdf

Long-winded chaps.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 31, 2017, 01:21:48 AM
Quote from: San Antone on December 31, 2017, 12:52:34 AM

I enjoyed it for a while before the sound becomes strident and I don't listen anymore

I can well imagine this is true, once the novelty wears off. At some point I'd like to make sense of what they do about the textual interrelationships (alleged) between the two poems in the double O-motets. They seem to suggest that there's a sort of third meaning which comes into existence through the clash of the other two in the performance - we shall see of this is bullshit or deep . . . I have a slight suspicion that what Schmelzer does is superficial in this sense: it's exciting and strange at first but once you've heard it you know what they do and there's no point in going back. It's all surfaces. I hope I'm wrong.

I listened last night to Si Didero (Agricola) by Schmelzer and Orlando Consort (theirs is on the excellent CD called A Toledo Summit -- my favourite Orlando CD)

Schmelzer uses instruments to replace two of the voices (no idea why!) and he balances it so that the voice which remains is sometimes almost drowned out. His performance is thrilling and sensual, visceral.

Orlando is intimate and rarefied, I much prefer the Orlando version.

I first got interested in Agricola's Si Didero years ago because Obrecht wrote an excellent mass based on it. I think it was a real hit for Agricola.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on January 01, 2018, 04:30:39 PM
Does anyone here have anything by an ensemble called Mora Vocis? I'd never heard of them until stumbling across one of their discs by accident earlier today. I can't find much info online other than their website, which mentions "circus artists, actors or dancer-choreographers" joining the ensemble in performances and also says that "rather than attempting to produce a historical reconstruction, Mora Vocis simply shares its passion for these musical treasures, from virtuosic neumæ to the complex polyphony of Ars subtilior."

I can't say the above sounds overly promising, on the other hand the few samples I've heard sound better than expected. A search of this forum yielded no results, so I'm guessing no-one here is familiar with them, but if anyone is I'd be interested to know what you think of them.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 07, 2018, 04:36:09 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71s3etztxlL._SL1400_.jpg)

Just a post to draw the attention to this extraordinary recording of exquisite and quiet C12 latin music. It turns out that Mauricio Melina  is an academic in the field working out of Montpellier, and the music here comes out of his research. What I can say with some confidence is that there's a tone of authenticity. I don't mean anything to do with historical accuracy, that's something I can't comment on. I mean that there's nothing rote or uninspired about the music making here, there's an honesty about about what they do, I can't explain it better than that.

I came across it while exploring Philippe Le Chancelier - it stood out, as it were.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 07, 2018, 04:52:18 AM
Quote from: Mr. Minnow on January 01, 2018, 04:30:39 PM
Does anyone here have anything by an ensemble called Mora Vocis? I'd never heard of them until stumbling across one of their discs by accident earlier today. I can't find much info online other than their website, which mentions "circus artists, actors or dancer-choreographers" joining the ensemble in performances and also says that "rather than attempting to produce a historical reconstruction, Mora Vocis simply shares its passion for these musical treasures, from virtuosic neumæ to the complex polyphony of Ars subtilior."

I can't say the above sounds overly promising, on the other hand the few samples I've heard sound better than expected. A search of this forum yielded no results, so I'm guessing no-one here is familiar with them, but if anyone is I'd be interested to know what you think of them.

I'd come across their CD called Tombeau before and I remember thinking it was interesting but didn't pursue it, just listening for about 10 minutes to random tracks makes me think that they're rather good as you suggest. I found this - if you want me to translate it let me know. I'd quite like to go to a concert  ;)

QuoteMora Vocis est un ensemble à voix de femmes spécialisé dans l'interprétation des musiques du Moyen-Age et d'aujourd'hui. Sa particularité est de chanter non pas en position de concert traditionnel mais en déambulation dans les lieux qu'elles investissent, qu'ils soient patrimoniaux ou contemporains. L'ensemble existe depuis 1986 mais connaît une étape nouvelle cette année avec l'arrivée d'une directrice artistique, Els Janssens-Vanmunster (il fonctionnait avant sans direction artistique) et le début d'un partenariat de recherche, de création et de formation de 4 ans à l'Université Montpellier III. Ce nouveau site doit marquer cette évolution en réaffirmant l'identité de l'ensemble, en marquant sa qualité et son exigence musicale dans des répertoires très pointus tout en mettant en avant sa créativité, sa capacité à décaler le regard sur cette musique pour la rendre «contemporaine».

http://www.moravocis.fr/english--

Looks like Montpellier is the place to be
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 07, 2018, 05:50:11 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 07, 2018, 04:36:09 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71s3etztxlL._SL1400_.jpg)

Just a post to draw the attention to this extraordinary recording of exquisite and quiet C12 latin music. It turns out that Mauricio Melina  is an academic in the field working out of Montpellier, and the music here comes out of his research. What I can say with some confidence is that there's a tone of authenticity. I don't mean anything to do with historical accuracy, that's something I can't comment on. I mean that there's nothing rote or uninspired about the music making here, there's an honesty about about what they do, I can't explain it better than that.

I came across it while exploring Philippe Le Chancelier - it stood out, as it were.

I can't read the print on your back cover and without the cover art there is a question: Are you referencing the recording Vacillantus by the ensemble Magister Petrus ?

(http://magisterpetrus.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/bocetos-vacilantis-8-300x248.jpg)

If so, it is excellent example of 12th century music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 07, 2018, 05:54:11 AM
Quote from: Mr. Minnow on January 01, 2018, 04:30:39 PM
Does anyone here have anything by an ensemble called Mora Vocis? I'd never heard of them until stumbling across one of their discs by accident earlier today. I can't find much info online other than their website, which mentions "circus artists, actors or dancer-choreographers" joining the ensemble in performances and also says that "rather than attempting to produce a historical reconstruction, Mora Vocis simply shares its passion for these musical treasures, from virtuosic neumæ to the complex polyphony of Ars subtilior."

I can't say the above sounds overly promising, on the other hand the few samples I've heard sound better than expected. A search of this forum yielded no results, so I'm guessing no-one here is familiar with them, but if anyone is I'd be interested to know what you think of them.

I am not a fan of all female groups, generally.  But their repertoire is a cut above the average and their aversion to vibrato is a plus.  In places they almost sound like men, another plus.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 07, 2018, 09:14:20 AM
Quote from: San Antone on January 07, 2018, 05:50:11 AM
I can't read the print on your back cover and without the cover art there is a question: Are you referencing the recording Vacillantus by the ensemble Magister Petrus ?

(http://magisterpetrus.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/bocetos-vacilantis-8-300x248.jpg)

If so, it is excellent example of 12th century music.

Yes that's the one. I like it very much, I've played it twice today, it's obviously touched the spot.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 07, 2018, 09:51:28 AM
Quote from: San Antone on January 07, 2018, 05:54:11 AM
I am not a fan of all female groups, generally.

Well in that case you should avoid this one from Ensemble Providencia, which I also found today, it's outstanding, I prefer the sound this group makes to La Reverdie I think. Unfortunately they seem to have made just one CD and then disappeared. The way they create counterpoints  out of this music is really nice, there are sometimes juicy dissonances and unexpected textures. 

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51P8RdaaSsL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on January 19, 2018, 05:51:09 PM
I can't speak to the authenticity of this music and I don't think it's been mentioned here, but I'm enjoying this. I believe he plays some version of an ancient lyre:
(http://ats.ancientlyre.com/img/ANCIENT_GREEK_MODES_ALBUM_COVER.JPG)
And this even more:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/81QyatzXDNk/maxresdefault.jpg)
I don't know much about this musician, Michael Levy. I'm checking out his website. He dresses up:
(http://ats.ancientlyre.com/img/but2.jpg)
But is he the only one making this kind of music? I love it. I'm curious what others might think. I don't have ANYTHING like this in my collection.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on January 22, 2018, 04:45:45 PM
I managed to get hold of a couple of Mora Vocis CDs:

(http://www.moravocis.fr/pictures/blogs/00412/discographie/chants_xii/chantsdouze.jpg)   (http://www.moravocis.fr/pictures/blogs/00412/discographie/chants_xiv/chantsquatorze.jpg)

From the bits I've heard so far it seems it was worth taking a chance on them. It's a shame their releases are generally only available at stupid prices.


Is anyone familiar with this:

(https://www.galileomusic.de/cover/400/oc361.jpg)


I just came across it while looking for something else. It's the sort of thing I'd normally buy in a heartbeat, so I wondered if it was something I'd seen ages ago, tried the samples and not liked them and then forgotten about it. But the samples sound fine, so unless I bought it years ago and have completely forgotten doing so (possible if it's in a pile of discs tucked away in a corner somewhere out of sight, but still, not very likely) it would appear to be one that slipped through the net.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Zeus on January 22, 2018, 06:32:34 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 07, 2018, 09:14:20 AM
Yes that's the one. I like it very much, I've played it twice today, it's obviously touched the spot.

Sold!  You should get a commission!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 23, 2018, 04:56:34 AM
Quote from: Mr. Minnow on January 22, 2018, 04:45:45 PM
I




Is anyone familiar with this:

(https://www.galileomusic.de/cover/400/oc361.jpg)


I just came across it while looking for something else. It's the sort of thing I'd normally buy in a heartbeat, so I wondered if it was something I'd seen ages ago, tried the samples and not liked them and then forgotten about it. But the samples sound fine, so unless I bought it years ago and have completely forgotten doing so (possible if it's in a pile of discs tucked away in a corner somewhere out of sight, but still, not very likely) it would appear to be one that slipped through the net.

The sound seems fine, if close. I mean, it's perfectly listenable.

He takes it pretty fast in all four parts of the ordinarium. It's a performance, without a sense of inwardness or prayer or expressiveness apart from thrilling speed. He's memorably good in the amen of the gloria. IMO very bad in the benedictus. Meh elsewhere
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on January 23, 2018, 04:44:22 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 23, 2018, 04:56:34 AM
The sound seems fine, if close. I mean, it's perfectly listenable.

He takes it pretty fast in all four parts of the ordinarium. It's a performance, without a sense of inwardness or prayer or expressiveness apart from thrilling speed. He's memorably good in the amen of the gloria. IMO very bad in the benedictus. Meh elsewhere

Thanks for that.

Having just listened to the samples again I see what you mean about how fast he takes the ordinarium. The lack of a sense of inwardness doesn't sound too promising either. Some bits do still sound interesting, but as I already have the recordings by Peres, Ensemble De Caelis and Tonus Peregrinus this may be one I'll only pick up if I see it going cheap. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 24, 2018, 08:26:46 AM
Quote from: Mr. Minnow on January 23, 2018, 04:44:22 PM
Thanks for that.

Having just listened to the samples again I see what you mean about how fast he takes the ordinarium. The lack of a sense of inwardness doesn't sound too promising either. Some bits do still sound interesting, but as I already have the recordings by Peres, Ensemble De Caelis and Tonus Peregrinus this may be one I'll only pick up if I see it going cheap.

One to think about getting I think is Pro Cantione Antiqua.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 02, 2018, 03:00:31 PM
Just acquired some disks by Alla Francesca.  I am smitten. 


edit:
can't stop playing this one:

[asin]B000005W6B[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 03, 2018, 09:08:27 AM
Quote from: Mookalafalas on February 02, 2018, 03:00:31 PM
Just acquired some disks by Alla Francesca.  I am smitten. 


edit:
can't stop playing this one:

[asin]B000005W6B[/asin]

Yes, I've just been listening to a cd of Italian music from Gothic Voices called A Song for Francesca, and it's extraordinary how the quality of Landini's music stands out.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on February 03, 2018, 11:54:15 AM
Quote from: Mookalafalas on February 02, 2018, 03:00:31 PM
Just acquired some disks by Alla Francesca.  I am smitten. 


edit:
can't stop playing this one:

[asin]B000005W6B[/asin]

When it comes to Early Music Alla Francesca is (one of) my ensembles of choice. This Landini disc is wonderful indeed.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on February 03, 2018, 06:31:00 PM
Seems like 90% of early music is vocal?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on February 03, 2018, 11:22:25 PM
Quote from: milk on February 03, 2018, 06:31:00 PM
Seems like 90% of early music is vocal?
Many of the songs would probably have doubled as instrumental music too, though.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 03, 2018, 11:53:18 PM
Quote from: Florestan on February 03, 2018, 11:54:15 AM
When it comes to Early Music Alla Francesca is (one of) my ensembles of choice. This Landini disc is wonderful indeed.
Quote from: Mandryka on February 03, 2018, 09:08:27 AM
Yes, I've just been listening to a cd of Italian music from Gothic Voices called A Song for Francesca, and it's extraordinary how the quality of Landini's music stands out.

   This is the only thing I have by Landini--I will look for more.  However, (like Florestan, apparently) I attribute a lot of my appreciation to the ensemble and musical direction.  I have been playing some other disks by the Alla Francesca group, and not only are they all excellent, they are surprisingly distinctive from disk to disk. The Landini features exquisite female vocals, with intricate harmonies, whereas some disks feature a single male singer much of the time--and they seem very comfortable switching between Italian and French, vocal and instrumental. Apparently this group is a subset of Ensemble Gilles Binchois; I haven't compared line-ups, but I suspect they are an ad hoc ensemble with varying members.  Le Roman de la rose may be equally good.   
    Apparently this Landini disk is oop-- at Amazon they are asking $100 for a copy.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 04, 2018, 01:18:30 AM
Quote from: Mookalafalas on February 03, 2018, 11:53:18 PM
   This is the only thing I have by Landini--I will look for more.  However, (like Florestan, apparently) I attribute a lot of my appreciation to the ensemble and musical direction.  I have been playing some other disks by the Alla Francesca group, and not only are they all excellent, they are surprisingly distinctive from disk to disk. The Landini features exquisite female vocals, with intricate harmonies, whereas some disks feature a single male singer much of the time--and they seem very comfortable switching between Italian and French, vocal and instrumental. Apparently this group is a subset of Ensemble Gilles Binchois; I haven't compared line-ups, but I suspect they are an ad hoc ensemble with varying members.  Le Roman de la rose may be equally good.   
    Apparently this Landini disk is oop-- at Amazon they are asking $100 for a copy.

A very different style with Landini, still a ladies' voice group,  is Anonymous 4
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on February 04, 2018, 01:35:36 AM
Quote from: North Star on February 03, 2018, 11:22:25 PM
Many of the songs would probably have doubled as instrumental music too, though.
It's interesting. Looking through this thread, it's very hard to find non-vocal recordings. Just an observation. Maybe it's strange but I don't collect much vocal music but I'm always interested in early music. I'm just wondering if early instrumental music wasn't preserved as much?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 04, 2018, 01:43:44 AM
Quote from: milk on February 04, 2018, 01:35:36 AM
It's interesting. Looking through this thread, it's very hard to find non-vocal recordings. Just an observation. Maybe it's strange but I don't collect much vocal music but I'm always interested in early music. I'm just wondering if early instrumental music wasn't preserved as much?

I think because so much music was written for liturgical use and preserved by the major cathedrals, vocal music is what has come down to us.  For most of the medieval period instruments, other than organ, were rarely, if at all, used in church.  I am sure there was plenty of instrumental music played during these pre 1600 periods, but it wasn't written down nor, even if it was, preserved in a library. 

The troubadours sang with instrument accompaniment, and is probably your best bet for at least some instrumental recordings.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on February 04, 2018, 03:05:50 AM
Quote from: San Antone on February 04, 2018, 01:43:44 AM
I think because so much music was written for liturgical use and preserved by the major cathedrals, vocal music is what has come down to us.  For most of the medieval period instruments, other than organ, were rarely, if at all, used in church.  I am sure there was plenty of instrumental music played during these pre 1600 periods, but it wasn't written down nor, even if it was, preserved in a library. 

The troubadours sang with instrument accompaniment, and is probably your best bet for at least some instrumental recordings.
Interesting. I listen to a lot of early lute and Vihuela music recently. Yeah, I guess that and organ are the first to come down. I imagine there was plenty of instrumental music around throughout the ages.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 04, 2018, 03:59:10 AM
Quote from: milk on February 04, 2018, 01:35:36 AM
It's interesting. Looking through this thread, it's very hard to find non-vocal recordings. Just an observation. Maybe it's strange but I don't collect much vocal music but I'm always interested in early music. I'm just wondering if early instrumental music wasn't preserved as much?

Check out the two CDs Savall made called Lira d'Espiria.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on February 04, 2018, 04:33:07 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 04, 2018, 03:59:10 AM
Check out the two CDs Savall made called Lira d'Espiria.
I definitely will! Thanks!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on February 04, 2018, 04:44:20 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 04, 2018, 01:18:30 AM
A very different style with Landini, still a ladies' voice group,  is Anonymous 4

  Thanks. I'm working on getting a copy.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on February 04, 2018, 04:08:40 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61X3DD%2BdkKL._SY355_.jpg) I'm liking this. Although I don't always love the reverberation on the singing, I like the vocals more than I thought I wold. The instrumental stuff is especially good.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on February 04, 2018, 04:36:11 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 04, 2018, 03:59:10 AM
Check out the two CDs Savall made called Lira d'Espiria.
I'm going to listen to this today. But, I'm interested in what other recordings people recommend. So, would you say that organ and lute music would be the earliest music we can locate/perform with reasonable justifiability? Are there any recordings, perhaps with vocals, that have substantial instrumental accompaniment that people can recommend? The earliest organs were small chamber organs? I suppose I should go to the organ thread but I'm just curious how far back we can go exactly to find instrumental music and what instruments exist now for performance? Wikipedia says the Valère organ is the oldest. I shall also search for recordings on it.   
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on February 09, 2018, 04:07:29 AM
(https://is4-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music/v4/30/ea/9a/30ea9a68-6e99-345a-4e03-397a38325d40/4260034864177.jpg/600x600bf.jpg)
I've been listening to this and enjoying it. I'm wondering what other recordings in this thread have a good bit of instrumentation on them - in addition to the vocals. I like this recording because it's balanced between singing and playing.

This one is also mesmerizing!
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81WwHdZForL._SX355_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 09, 2018, 12:01:45 PM
Quote from: milk on February 09, 2018, 04:07:29 AM
(https://is4-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music/v4/30/ea/9a/30ea9a68-6e99-345a-4e03-397a38325d40/4260034864177.jpg/600x600bf.jpg)
I'm wondering what other recordings in this thread have a good bit of instrumentation on them -

I remember Clemencic's Dufay CD has a lot of music from The Buxheimer Organ Book. There are many other examples  I think from the 16th century, but it's harder for earlier music. Try Ensemble Organum's Codex Faenza CD, it's a recording I really like. Also Ferrara Ensemble's Alexander Agricola CD. I'm sure I'll remember others soon.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on February 09, 2018, 01:36:14 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 09, 2018, 12:01:45 PM
I remember Clemencic's Dufay CD has a lot of music from The Buxheimer Organ Book.

Yes, that's true, six items from the Buxheimer:

https://www.amazon.de/Guillaume-Dufay-Rene-Clemencic/dp/B000063X8V/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1518215623&sr=1-1&keywords=dufay+clemencic

and certainly a very interesting release.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 12, 2018, 07:54:51 AM
Quote from: milk on February 04, 2018, 04:36:11 PM
I'm going to listen to this today. But, I'm interested in what other recordings people recommend. So, would you say that organ and lute music would be the earliest music we can locate/perform with reasonable justifiability? Are there any recordings, perhaps with vocals, that have substantial instrumental accompaniment that people can recommend? The earliest organs were small chamber organs? I suppose I should go to the organ thread but I'm just curious how far back we can go exactly to find instrumental music and what instruments exist now for performance? Wikipedia says the Valère organ is the oldest. I shall also search for recordings on it.

This one (https://www.amazon.com/Springs-Middle-Ages-Reverdie/dp/B01M3O72BK/ref=tmm_acd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=) is good:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81orOIhU12L._SY355_.jpg)

Knights, Maids & Miracles : The Spring of Middle Ages
La Reverdie

And La reverdie has others of a similar nature.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on February 12, 2018, 06:00:45 PM
Quote from: San Antone on February 12, 2018, 07:54:51 AM
This one (https://www.amazon.com/Springs-Middle-Ages-Reverdie/dp/B01M3O72BK/ref=tmm_acd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=) is good:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81orOIhU12L._SY355_.jpg)

Knights, Maids & Miracles : The Spring of Middle Ages
La Reverdie

And La reverdie has others of a similar nature.
Thanks, I'm going to check it out!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on February 13, 2018, 01:04:24 PM
Quote from: San Antone on February 12, 2018, 07:54:51 AM
This one (https://www.amazon.com/Springs-Middle-Ages-Reverdie/dp/B01M3O72BK/ref=tmm_acd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=) is good:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81orOIhU12L._SY355_.jpg)

Knights, Maids & Miracles : The Spring of Middle Ages
La Reverdie

And La reverdie has others of a similar nature.
+1

Excellent recommendation!  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 13, 2018, 09:10:03 PM
That recording from La Reverdie is well worth hearing, I agree. However, when it comes to combining voices and instruments, no one comes close to Mala Punica for me, somehow they create a texture of sounds which, to my ears, is rich and full of mystery.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 14, 2018, 06:57:56 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 13, 2018, 09:10:03 PM
That recording from La Reverdie is well worth hearing, I agree. However, when it comes to combining voices and instruments, no one comes close to Mala Punica for me, somehow they create a texture of sounds which, to my ears, is rich and full of mystery.

Yes, Mala Punica is another very good suggestion for repertoire featuring vocals with instruments.  I especially enjoy this one of theirs:

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0003/723/MI0003723988.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JCBuckley on February 14, 2018, 09:58:01 AM
Quote from: San Antone on February 14, 2018, 06:57:56 AM
Yes, Mala Punica is another very good suggestion for repertoire featuring vocals with instruments.  I especially enjoy this one of theirs:

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0003/723/MI0003723988.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)

I have this set, but can't say I listen to it often - I just haven't learned to love Jill Feldman's voice. Mea culpa. But the voice of Lena Susanne Norin, on the other hand:

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 14, 2018, 10:20:52 AM
Quote from: JCBuckley on February 14, 2018, 09:58:01 AM
I have this set, but can't say I listen to it often - I just haven't learned to love Jill Feldman's voice. Mea culpa. But the voice of Lena Susanne Norin, on the other hand:

I like them both, but had forgotten about that Figures of Harmony set.  Lots to listen to.  ;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 15, 2018, 04:37:41 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51QWDJNG6NL.jpg)

Antoine Brumel : Missa Berzerette savoyenne
Chanticleer

Takes its title and much of its distinctive material from a French chanson by Josquin des Prez.  This recording may be the only one, but I haven't looked.  It is good, Chanticleer is an all male group, which suits me perfectly.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 20, 2018, 02:15:46 AM
In the process of looking for music by Thomas Ashwell I came across an interesting YouTube channel: "Graindelavoix Bootlegs".  You can listen to gems such as this:

https://www.youtube.com/v/7bHXaF40Tmg

Pedro Ruimonte : Lamentations
GRAINDELAVOIX
Live-recording, April 2017
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on March 02, 2018, 04:36:52 AM
Some recent purchases from Hyperion, Tudor composers ...

(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571281926.png)(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571179285.png)(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571281476.png)

Nicholas Ludford (c1490-1557)
Missa Videte miraculum & Ave Maria, ancilla Trinitatis
Westminster Abbey Choir, James O'Donnell (conductor)

Christopher Tye (c1505-before 15 March 1573)
Missa Euge bone & Western Wynde Mass
Westminster Abbey Choir, James O'Donnell (conductor)

John Taverner (c1490-1545)
Missa Mater Christi sanctissima & Western Wynde Mass
Westminster Abbey Choir, James O'Donnell (conductor)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Biffo on March 02, 2018, 04:59:34 AM
Quote from: San Antone on March 02, 2018, 04:36:52 AM
Some recent purchases from Hyperion, Tudor composers ...

(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571281926.png)(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571179285.png)(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571281476.png)

Nicholas Ludford (c1490-1557)
Missa Videte miraculum & Ave Maria, ancilla Trinitatis
Westminster Abbey Choir, James O'Donnell (conductor)

Christopher Tye (c1505-before 15 March 1573)
Missa Euge bone & Western Wynde Mass
Westminster Abbey Choir, James O'Donnell (conductor)

John Taverner (c1490-1545)
Missa Mater Christi sanctissima & Western Wynde Mass
Westminster Abbey Choir, James O'Donnell (conductor)

I will be interested to hear what you think of the Ludford album; I have just bought it as a lossless download from the Hyperion website. I already have the Taverner album and just been listening to some of it for comparison purposes.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 03, 2018, 01:47:07 AM
My first encounter with this all male ensemble "Beauty Farm"

QuoteBeauty Farm founded 2014 by Markus Muntean and Bernhard Trebuch is a vocal group focused to the Franco-Flemish polyphony of the renaissance. The international ensemble is based in the carthusian monastery at Mauerbach (Austria). The singers are members of well known ensembles like «Capilla flamenca», «Huelgas Ensemble», «Vox Luminis», «Collegium Vocale Gent» and «Graindelavoix».


[asin]B00XWVIYE8[/asin]
Opinions elsewhere range from raving (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/customer-reviews/R23DNA47EFN7I9/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00XWVIYE8) to cautiously positive (http://earlymusicreview.com/gombert-motets/).

My first impressions. The music is not transposed up and receives the deep & sonorous "continental" treatment, thank God..... ::)
The style of the ensemble has been compared with that of The Sound and the Fury. There is some resemblance in that the approach is more personalised, less detached. But it stops there: TSAF are at their worst slap dash, uneven and over the top in their "emotional" approach. Beauty Farm occupies, with Cinquecento, the middle ground, compared to the more "detached" Egidius and Singer Pur on the other side of the spectrum. What I like is the overall sound of the ensemble - individual voices blend well together, no "jarring" counter tenor....

Technically, this recording debut is no match for the ensembles mentioned before (excluding TSAF). The ensemble work doesn't run like clockwork in terms of timing and intonation. It's good, but not to same same level of perfection. This affects the level of vocal clarity and obscures the texts. I have to say that this improves during proceedings and the motets on the 2nd come off better. What also improves on the way is the flexibility - at first it seemed they picked a pace and stuck to it from motet to motet.

Oddly, there appeared a strange low soft rumble in the first two motets on the 2nd disc. After first thinking it came from the neighbours, I  came to the conclusion that one of the tenors came to close to the microphone. This is slightly distracting and could have been avoided by a retake...  ::)

All in all, I basically quite like their approach and their ensemble sound.
And they present an unmatched complete collection of Gombert's motets.
Which, by the way, are idiosyncratic and not very accessible, according to some reviewers..... An acquired tatste, with recommended listening of only a few motets at a time... I honestly have NO clue what they are on about....  ???

Despite some of the mentioned quibbles, this is an excellent issue which is perhaps not perfect but certainly more than good enough for me. Looking forward to the 2nd volume! :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 03, 2018, 05:13:39 AM
The problem for me with that recording is that they make so many of  the motets sound drab and samey. This is partly because of the inexpressive rhythms, and also because they're  harmonically too conservative, so the dissonances don't ring forth.I prefer Sound and Fury singing Gombert motets, and I'm pretty oblivious to their ensemble and intonation "problems" thank goodness!

I'm saying this with more confidence than I should because these motets haven't been recorded elsewhere very much - I mean for all I know the problem could be Gombert's rather than Beauty Farm's.

I also am oblivious to rumble in CD 2 - I wonder what's going on.

On the positive side, I like Beauty Farm's bass.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 03, 2018, 05:44:17 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 03, 2018, 05:13:39 AM
The problem for me with that recording is that they make so many of  the motets sound drab and samey. This is partly because of the inexpressive rhythms, and also because they're  harmonically too conservative, so the dissonances don't ring forth.

I agree about the inexpressive rhythms, what I called inflexibility in pace. I don't mind their harmonic treatment - it is not more conservative then many of the other ensembles, except for TSATF.

QuoteI prefer Sound and Fury singing Gombert motets, and I'm pretty oblivious to their ensemble and intonation "problems" thank goodness!

I am not familiar with TSATF's Gombert recordings - I compared general styles - perhaps their ensemble work and intonation there is impeccable! Do you prefer them to Beauty Farm?  :)

Quote
I also am oblivious to rumble in CD 2 - I wonder what's going on.

Coincides with and follows the contribution of one of the tenors. Tracks 1 & 2.
I saw somewhere a remark on "sensitive" microphones, I suspect it was referring to the same.

QuoteOn the positive side, I like Beauty Farm's bass.

Which is quite nice....  :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: kishnevi on March 03, 2018, 09:35:50 AM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 26, 2017, 05:43:27 PM
Crossposting the pertinent portion of a post posted in WAYLTN

[asin]B074QHYGFK[/asin]


About the Bauldewyn: it's two CDs, two masses for five voices, one for four voices, one for six voices. Sonics are a bit close, but not too close. The bass voice often comes across as a drone (think of those Russian deep basses). There is no real attempt to blend the outer voices: the usual aural image is the top voice and bottom voice operating independently, with the middle voices singing in parallel or in canon, as an acoustic block between the outer voices. How much of that effect is due to Bauldewyn and how much to Beauty Farm, I can't say.

Bumping this post as it relates to Beauty Farm. Perhaps what I heard as a bass drone springs from the same source as Que's rumble?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 03, 2018, 10:34:57 AM
Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on March 03, 2018, 09:35:50 AM
Bumping this post as it relates to Beauty Farm. Perhaps what I heard as a bass drone springs from the same source as Que's rumble?

Thanks for that.  :) 

I'm very curious to hear those recordings, not in the least because of the uniqueness of the repertoire.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on March 03, 2018, 01:07:43 PM
Quote from: Que on March 03, 2018, 01:47:07 AM
My first encounter with this all male ensemble "Beauty Farm"


[asin]B00XWVIYE8[/asin]
Opinions elsewhere range from raving (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/customer-reviews/R23DNA47EFN7I9/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00XWVIYE8) to cautiously positive (http://earlymusicreview.com/gombert-motets/).

My first impressions. The music is not transposed up and receives the deep & sonorous "continental" treatment, thank God..... ::)
The style of the ensemble has been compared with that of The Sound and the Fury. There is some resemblance in that the approach is more personalised, less detached. But it stops there: TSAF are at their worst slap dash, uneven and over the top in their "emotional" approach. Beauty Farm occupies, with Cinquecento, the middle ground, compared to the more "detached" Egidius and Singer Pur on the other side of the spectrum. What I like is the overall sound of the ensemble - individual voices blend well together, no "jarring" counter tenor....

Technically, this recording debut is no match for the ensembles mentioned before (excluding TSAF). The ensemble work doesn't run like clockwork in terms of timing and intonation. It's good, but not to same same level of perfection. This affects the level of vocal clarity and obscures the texts. I have to say that this improves during proceedings and the motets on the 2nd come off better. What also improves on the way is the flexibility - at first it seemed they picked a pace and stuck to it from motet to motet.

Oddly, there appeared a strange low soft rumble in the first two motets on the 2nd disc. After first thinking it came from the neighbours, I  came to the conclusion that one of the tenors came to close to the microphone. This is slightly distracting and could have been avoided by a retake...  ::)

All in all, I basically quite like their approach and their ensemble sound.
And they present an unmatched complete collection of Gombert's motets.
Which, by the way, are idiosyncratic and not very accessible, according to some reviewers..... An acquired tatste, with recommended listening of only a few motets at a time... I honestly have NO clue what they are on about....  ???

Despite some of the mentioned quibbles, this is an excellent issue which is perhaps not perfect but certainly more than good enough for me. Looking forward to the 2nd volume! :)

Q

Excellent post Que!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 03, 2018, 10:05:39 PM
Quote from: Que on March 03, 2018, 10:34:57 AM
Thanks for that.  :) 

I'm very curious to hear those recordings, not in the least because of the uniqueness of the repertoire.

Q

I've found their Ockeghem to be their most rewarding recording, though this probably just refelects my interest in the composer,  for once we hear an Ockeghem which does justice to the ideas of Krenek.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 04, 2018, 12:09:59 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 03, 2018, 10:05:39 PM
I've found their Ockeghem to be their most rewarding recording, though this probably just refelects my interest in the composer,  for once we hear an Ockeghem which does justice to the ideas of Krenek.

Ockeghem is an amazing composer - amongst the greatest!  :)

Anyway, I believe we have discussed this before on the Ockeghem thread ... but the regular Early Music Amazon reviewer Gio didn't like  (https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2ARZTXY2BZZEE/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B01MSWBUN8) the Ockeghem. He did like the Gombert recordings.
Now, I know it's just an opinion, but I find his tastes and mine align frequently.  :) His description sound like TSATF on a bad day.... However, other reviews have been more positive. A recurrent complaint is that the microphones are too close...


Something else - Beauty Farm's newest recording (2CD set):

(http://frabernardo.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/fb_1800751_de_la_rue_masses_beauty_farm_FRONT-300x300.jpg)

http://frabernardo.com/?portfolio=la-rue-masses-beauty-farm

Q

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 04, 2018, 09:11:47 AM
Just ignore Gio. They're not brusque, and Ockeghem isn't Apollonian. The "bumptious" complaint is interesting precisely because Gio likes the individuality of the voices of Capella Pratensis but apparently not of Beauty Farm. If you look in the commentaries section of the review you'll see I had a brief discussion with him about it.

Part of the problem, que, is that you're still living in the 20th century, and you can't just check these things out via streaming.

I listened to the B minor mass this morning, I've decided that I'm a Medieval at heart. I mean, all those catchy tunes and that flashy orchestra - it's more like an entertainment for the rich at their leisure than a prayer!

(One interesting thing in that review is that he says that Gomber is harmonically daring and Ockeghem ain't, I wonder what other people think of that. It certainly wasn't Krenek's view)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 06, 2018, 10:30:17 AM
Quote from: Que on March 03, 2018, 05:44:17 AM
I agree about the inexpressive rhythms, what I called inflexibility in pace. I don't mind their harmonic treatment - it is not more conservative then many of the other ensembles, except for TSATF.



This essay by Rob Wegman (taken from Sound and Fury Gombert 1) has some interesting things to say on dissonance in Gombert, and the difference between Josquin and Gombert (It'll possibly make you think of Bach and the Galant, Josquin the analogue of  galant, Gombert the analogue of Bach  . . . )

Anyway I wanted to post it because it just may be that Sound and Fury's approach is idiomatic, and "many of the other [conservative] ensembles" aren't.
Quote


« Diversi diversa orant » — The Music of Nicholas Gombert

Nicholas Gombert's MISSA QUAM PULCHRA ES rolled off the presses of Pierre Attaingnant's publishing house at Paris in 1532. It was an ambitious work: nearly fifty minutes of densely-textured polyphony in six parts, an elaborate contrapuntal fantasia based on the motet QUAM PULCHRA ES by Noel Bauldewyn.

Gombert's Mass embodied the sound of a new era, a new generation — sometimes called the Es post-Josquin generation » — and dramatically underlines how fast musical styles were changing in the second quarter of the sixteenth century. Josquin himself had died in 1521, only ten years before Gombert composed his set-ting. And yet, how far removed do we seem from the soundworld of the older master. Although his name was still on everybody's lips, musically he seems to have been already relegated to the past.

One can sympathize with the ageing Swiss music theorist Heinrich Glarean, author of the treatise DODEKA-CHORDON of 1547. Glarean felt that after the o perfect art » (ARS PERFECTA) of Josquin and his contemporaries — music he had grown up with, and had loved all his life — the art of composition had degenerated and declined. The main reason, he felt, was that modern composers tended to show off their contrapuntal wizardry, so much so that they neglected to give delight to the listeners. The theorist insisted on clarity of diction, on sensitivity to text, on contrapuntal transparency, and, above all, restraint — all of which he found to his satisfaction in Josquin's motets. But the six voices of Gombert's Mass seem to be ploughing on relentlessly, as if intoxicated by their own artistry, indifferent to whatever text they must enunciate, and oblivious to what listeners can cope with. To Glarean's ears, the Mass must have sounded over-wrought, opaque, and downright impenetrable.

To those who knew and loved Gombert's music, however, it was Josquin's composition that suffered by comparison. The German theorist Hermann Finck put it as follows, in his PRACTICA MUSICA of 1556: (t IN OUR OWN TIME THERE ARE INNOVATORS, AMONG WHOM NICOLAS GOMBERT, PUPIL OF JOSQUIN OF FOND MEMORY, SHOWS ALL MUSICIANS THE PATH, NAY RATHER, THE EXACT WAY TO REFINEMENT AND THE REQUISITE IMITATIVE STYLE. HE COMPOSES MUSIC ALTOGETHER DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WENT BEFORE. FOR HE AVOIDS RESTS, AND HIS WORK IS RICH WITH FULL HARMONIES AND IMITATIVE COUNTERPOINT.

Finck complained that Josquin's music had been « bare » (literally: o naked ») because there were so many rests. In the older master's music, too many voices were silent for too much of the time. For Glarean, on the other hand, that would have been the mark of restraint: if you have six voice-parts at your disposal, you want to use those forces judiciously and with discretion, depending on what the text demands and what the listener is able to take in. A good example is Josquin's six-part motet BENEDICTA ES, CELORUM REGINA of c.1515: the full, six-part texture is reserved only for key moments and conclusions; everything else is in reduced scoring.

For Finck, in turn, that would have been a waste of resources: why have endless passages in thin scoring when you can have richly-textured polyphony all the time? Many singers might well have agreed. It can sometimes be a frustrating experience to sing Josquin, especially when you spend much of your time counting rests till you are allowed to contribute your little bit to some point of imitation, or some exchange between voice-pairs. If you want to keep on going, if you want to sing your heart out, Gombert is your man. He'll give you barely enough time to catch your breath.

There are other important differences. The classic Josquin is a strategist, an architect, a planner, who builds up or winds down to or from moments of great musical intensity, reducing or expanding the texture, some-times stepping up the musical pace, sometimes bringing it almost to a standstill — but never without a sense that all this is natural and somehow necessary. (Once again the classic example is BENEDICTA ES.) Gombert, on the other hand, does not seem to have a compositional plan, a well thought-out strategy, other than to keep going relentlessly, to avoid everything that might disrupt the flow of his music. If it is exceedingly hard to single out and recall « key moments » or o purple patches » in his music, it is because every moment sounds pretty much the same as the next.

Telling, in this regard, is the way Gombert handles his final cadences. In Josquin's BENEDICTA ES, the magnifi-cent conclusion of the motet is anticipated long in advance. But Gombert's final cadences arrive with so
14
little warning or preparation that one realizes only a split-second later, in retrospect, that they were meant to conclude the piece. In fact, Gombert creates the impression that even the voices themselves do not always realize that there has been a final cadence. Usually there are three or four parts who keep going for a little longer, until they finally join in with the final chord. If Josquin's voice-parts operate like a tightly-disciplined army, collectively marching, rushing forward, stopping, or turning at the general's command, Gombert's voice-parts seem to behave rather like an unruly crowd — as if the composer himself has scarcely any control over what they are doing.

Certainly they operate in a space that seems too narrow to contain them. Like prisoners in an overcrowded cell, they are restlessly moving within the span of two-and-a-half octaves, trying not to hit the same notes, trying not to move in parallel fifths and octaves, and above all, trying not to produce dissonances with one another.

Gombert actively encourages this impression that they are unable to avoid bumping into one another. Scholars have often called attention to the unusually high incidence of dissonance in his music. Consider EXAMPLE 1, which shows bars 22-25 of the Kyrie of MISSA QUAM PULCHRA ES (about one minute into track 1 on the present recording). I have placed an asterisk above each note that creates a dissonance with some other note sounding in another voice at the same time. Many of these are so-called passing dissonances, occurring on off-beats, and not especially noteworthy. But what is remarkable, indeed staggering, is the number of dissonances on down-beats, on places of rhythmic emphasis: out of fourteen down-beats in the example, nine are marked by dissonance. And this example is not an exception: it is typical of page after page of Gombert's writing. In MISSA QUAM PULCHRA ES, there is scarcely a moment or a dissonance is occurring between some pair of voices.

None of this is to suggest that Gombert was somehow incompetent as a musician. On the contrary: it takes extraordinary skill to be able to spice up your counterpoint with such generous seasonings of dissonance, and yet not to break the rules — at least not completely. At the same time, there is so much dissonant friction going on, all the time, that Gombert's music could not possibly have been considered stylish, or idiomatic, at an earlier date. True, he observes the letter of the laws of counterpoint, as much as he can, but he seems to violate the spirit.

EXAMPLE 2 shows how one would have had to change the same passage if it was to sound acceptable, say, in the 1490s or before. Not every dissonance needs to go, of course, but the downbeats at least consist of pure consonant sound, as would have been imperative throughout the fifteenth century. Not that the second example is better, or even more « correct D, than the first — it just reflects a different way of thinking about music and sonority.

For instance, in the 1490s, it would not have been enough just to remove the dissonances like I have done in EXAMPLE 2. In order to bring out the consonant sonorities one would also have had to slow down the music considerably, otherwise the sounds would rush by too fast to be properly appreciated. Yet it would be impossible to bring out that same quality in EXAMPLE 1, no matter how much one would slow down the music. There is too much activity, too much discordant interference, for any single sonority to resound to advantage. In fact, if one slowed down Gombert's music, it is the dissonances that would probably begin to sound intolerable. His counterpoint needs to move at a relatively brisk pace if it is to work.

Yet there is a more critical difference. In EXAMPLE 2, the « cleaned-up » version, the voices work together as a team, building sonorities that can be heard and appreciated as entities, as chords. In EXAMPLE 1, on the other hand, each of the voices seems to have an almost perverse pleasure in not going along with what the others are doing, disrupting their consonant sonorities, or at least joining them only after a pointed delay — always lingering on dissonant notes before resolving them, always persisting in the logic of its own motion. If Josquin controlled and managed his voice-parts like an army general, Gombert creates a soundworld in which each of the voice-parts seems to be constantly struggling against all others — and the listener gets to listen in on the struggle.

The consequence is that Gombert's music lacks definition, lacks clarity and transparency of sound, that it is quite difficult for the listener to stand back from the experience of hearing it, and to single out even one point of conceptual stability. Instead of an orderly progression of consonant sonorities, one hears constant
16
motion and friction between voice-parts. There is scarcely a sonority or it contains some admixture of dissonance, however fleetingly. And yet each sonority makes way for the next so quickly that one can barely bring to consciousness what is happening exactly at any one moment. What emerges instead is an overall acoustic effect, a general sound quality that must have been quite to the taste of the 1530s: a kind of constant « buzzing » effect, a-darkening of texture, making up in stentorian power for what it loses in mellowness and sweetness. It is this effect, this tendency for individual pitches to become almost indistinct in a wash of vibrant vocal noise, that Gombert relishes, and that he seems afraid to lose by allowing the pace of his music to slacken even momentarily.

Quite why music of this kind became so fashionable in the 1520s is difficult to say. Music like that of Gombert and his contemporary Willaert is an acquired taste, obviously, and it can be quite hard to deal with if one has lived on a diet of Josquin. Yet whatever it is that we value in Josquin's music, clearly the generation that came after him saw no point in cultivating that quality any longer. In fact they left the older man's style so firmly behind that one is almost inclined to speak of a reaction against him — as if composers distanced themselves from Josquin precisely by canonizing the man and his work. Or perhaps it is our own canonization of Josquin that plays tricks on us here. There are plenty of works attributed to him that clearly anticipate the stylistic trends of the 1520s, yet Josquin scholars have persistently rejected these works as spurious precisely because they do not conform to their stylistic image of the composer — an image based largely on his middle-period works. Perhaps, if we can bring ourselves to reconsider Josquin's authorship of late works like INTER NATOS MULIERUM and MISSA QUEM DICUNT HOMINES, it might be possible to understand Finck's claim that Gombert was a pupil of Josquin, and maybe even perceive a more gradual stylistic transition in the 1520s than the dramatic rupture that Gombert's MISSA QUAM PULCHRA ES seems to mark. Rob. C. Wegman

(sorry if it's full of typos, I've used some software to convert the image to text but I haven't checked the output yet.)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Zeus on March 06, 2018, 10:37:17 AM
Quote from: San Antone on February 12, 2018, 07:54:51 AM
This one (https://www.amazon.com/Springs-Middle-Ages-Reverdie/dp/B01M3O72BK/ref=tmm_acd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=) is good:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81orOIhU12L._SY355_.jpg)

Knights, Maids & Miracles : The Spring of Middle Ages
La Reverdie

And La reverdie has others of a similar nature.

Available as a download for $9.49 here:
https://play.google.com/store/music/album?id=B4m4yo72adn7zojstja5s2t672y&tid=song-Twjvycplvxadah5hw74yxpml2ua&hl=en

Not many mis-pricings left around the web, but that's one.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Traverso on March 16, 2018, 08:46:38 AM
Quote from: Fidgety on March 06, 2018, 10:37:17 AM
Available as a download for $9.49 here:
https://play.google.com/store/music/album?id=B4m4yo72adn7zojstja5s2t672y&tid=song-Twjvycplvxadah5hw74yxpml2ua&hl=en

Not many mis-pricings left around the web, but that's one.

A fine box indeed.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on May 24, 2018, 10:41:29 AM
Also posted in the new releases thread:

Due in June:

(https://media1.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8424562225183.jpg)      (https://media1.jpc.de/image/w600/rear/0/8424562225183.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on May 25, 2018, 08:03:30 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/AXA3rw1Gilw

Ensemble Organum's current take on the Reichenau Salve Regina, their recording on the Templars CD. This live performance seems more introverted. It's one of my favourite pieces of music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mr. Minnow on May 25, 2018, 08:10:32 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 25, 2018, 08:03:30 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/AXA3rw1Gilw

Ensemble Organum's current take on the Reichenau Salve Regina, their recording on the Templars CD. This live performance seems more introverted. It's one of my favourite pieces of music.

Glad to see they're still around. Unless I've missed something it's been quite a while since they last released a new recording. Hopefully something is in the pipeline.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on May 27, 2018, 11:20:59 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/416HN87K9XL.jpg)

One more return to this recording of Marian motets and the Missa pro defunctis by Johannes Prioris (1460 - c 1514) (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Prioris). One of the earliest surviving requiems and, like that by Antoine Févin, it might havd been written for Anne of Brittany's funeral in 1514. A few organ interludes on music by contemporary composers.

I wasn't aware of either composer or recording, but it is a real find. Performances by the Capilla Flamenca are spot on as far as I'm concerned. Four male singers, one voice per part, in perfect style of the Low lands. Very nice accoustics with some decay but crystal clear. What else could I ask for?  :)

Coincidentally a 2nd recording of the Requiem as been issued on Accent, performed by the Ensemble Daedelus. First comments I've read are cautious. Well, there is no resson whatsoever to pass this one over, apart from its (in) availability.

More on this recording (scroll down for English): http://www.sonusantiqva.org/i/F/CFlamenca/2003PriorisMProDefunctis.html

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on May 28, 2018, 02:19:25 AM
Quote from: Que on May 27, 2018, 11:20:59 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/416HN87K9XL.jpg)

One more return to this recording of Marian motets and the Missa pro defunctis by Johannes Prioris (1460 - c 1514) (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Prioris). One of the earliest surviving requiems and, like that by Antoine Févin, it might havd been written for Anne of Brittany's funeral in 1514. A few organ interludes on music by contemporary composers.

I wasn't aware of either composer or recording, but it is a real find. Performances by the Capilla Flamenca are spot on as far as I'm concerned. Four male singers, one voice per part, in perfect style of the Low lands. Very nice accoustics with some decay but crystal clear. What else could I ask for?  :)

Coincidentally a 2nd recording of the Requiem as been issued on Accent, performed by the Ensemble Daedelus. First comments I've read are cautious. Well, there is no resson whatsoever to pass this one over, apart from its (in) availability.

More on this recording (scroll down for English): http://www.sonusantiqva.org/i/F/CFlamenca/2003PriorisMProDefunctis.html

Q

Sounds very interesting and like something I should find.  But, the bit about being one of the first to write a polyphonic setting of the requiem seems somewhat overstated seeing as he came at least 100 years after Machaut's mass.  Nevertheless, your description is enough to whet my appetite.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on June 07, 2018, 02:06:55 AM
(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/107/MI0001107217.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
This is a really pleasurable listen.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: TheGSMoeller on June 11, 2018, 03:07:17 PM

One of the loveliest, and most sorrowful pieces of music I've ever heard. I first came across this in Park Chan-Wook's film Sympathy for Lady Vengeance (2005), which this piece closes out the film, and results in quite a powerful ending. It's performed here by Montserrat Figueras, with Jordi and Arianna Savall.

Mareta nom faces plorar - Anon

Mareta, mareta, no'm faces plorar,
compra'm la nineta avui qu'es el meu sant.
Que tinga la nina hermosos els ulls,
la cara molt fina i els cabells molt rull.

Marieta, Marieta jo es cantaré
una cançoneta que ta adormiré.
Dorm-te, neneta, dorm si tens son.
Dorm-te, neneta, dorm si tens son.

------------------------------------------------

Mommy, dear Mommy, don't make me cry,
Today is my saint's day, so buy me a doll.
Let the doll have beautiful eyes,
A pretty face and very curly hair.

Mary, little Mary, I will sing you
A ditty and I'll lull you to sleep.
Sleep, little one, sleep, if you're sleepy.
Sleep, little one, sleep, if you're sleepy.


https://www.youtube.com/v/z26GQaiS6TY
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on June 12, 2018, 01:14:38 AM
Quote from: milk on June 07, 2018, 02:06:55 AM
(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/107/MI0001107217.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
This is a really pleasurable listen.

I read. I acquired. I listened. I concur.
  many thanks ;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mookalafalas on June 12, 2018, 07:38:04 PM
damn, he's got a lot of stuff, and it all seems terrific. Decided to drop back a few centuries...
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71pJibOIO3L._SX522_.jpg)

Paniagua? Is his name really "bread and water," or is that a coincidence?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on June 13, 2018, 03:03:36 AM
Quote from: Mookalafalas on June 12, 2018, 07:38:04 PM
damn, he's got a lot of stuff, and it all seems terrific. Decided to drop back a few centuries...
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71pJibOIO3L._SX522_.jpg)

Paniagua? Is his name really "bread and water," or is that a coincidence?

Eduardo Paniagua is an interesting guy: percussionist, wind player, conductor and accomplished architect, record label owner (Pneuma).  His specialty is Medieval Spanish music - and you're right, it all seems excellent.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 15, 2018, 12:28:33 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 11, 2018, 03:07:17 PM
One of the loveliest, and most sorrowful pieces of music I've ever heard. I first came across this in Park Chan-Wook's film Sympathy for Lady Vengeance (2005), which this piece closes out the film, and results in quite a powerful ending. It's performed here by Montserrat Figueras, with Jordi and Arianna Savall.

Mareta nom faces plorar - Anon

Mareta, mareta, no'm faces plorar,
compra'm la nineta avui qu'es el meu sant.
Que tinga la nina hermosos els ulls,
la cara molt fina i els cabells molt rull.

Marieta, Marieta jo es cantaré
una cançoneta que ta adormiré.
Dorm-te, neneta, dorm si tens son.
Dorm-te, neneta, dorm si tens son.

------------------------------------------------

Mommy, dear Mommy, don't make me cry,
Today is my saint's day, so buy me a doll.
Let the doll have beautiful eyes,
A pretty face and very curly hair.

Mary, little Mary, I will sing you
A ditty and I'll lull you to sleep.
Sleep, little one, sleep, if you're sleepy.
Sleep, little one, sleep, if you're sleepy.


https://www.youtube.com/v/z26GQaiS6TY

Good find! From this CD, the songs always make me think of Grieg. I remember my excitement when I first heard them and I even tried to get Florestan to hear them, but he's a bit of a lost cause I suspect

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61FYwKtPwFL._SS500.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 15, 2018, 12:31:57 AM
Quote from: San Antone on June 13, 2018, 03:03:36 AM
Eduardo Paniagua is an interesting guy: percussionist, wind player, conductor and accomplished architect, record label owner (Pneuma).  His specialty is Medieval Spanish music - and you're right, it all seems excellent.

There's so much stuff by him it's overwhelming, I don't know what I'm hearing, it becomes hard to say anything more than "seems excellent"

This is a general problem for me with most music! I'm going to do a course in London next year on Medieval Music, which may help me put a bit of structure on it all.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 15, 2018, 12:41:51 AM
Quote from: Mr. Minnow on May 24, 2018, 10:41:29 AM
Also posted in the new releases thread:

Due in June:

(https://media1.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/8424562225183.jpg)      (https://media1.jpc.de/image/w600/rear/0/8424562225183.jpg)

Very forceful singing, like in their Endzeitfragmente, Sequentia are always interesting.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 21, 2018, 06:27:25 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 15, 2018, 12:41:51 AM
Very forceful singing, like in their Endzeitfragmente, Sequentia are always interesting.

Too bloody forceful if you ask me. In this and Enszeitfragmente they seem to have sacrificed nuance and refinement for melodrama and punch. Part of it may be a product of recording quality, in the later recordings they sound like they're singing right in my face. Don't like it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on July 25, 2018, 12:03:28 AM
Interesting new release:

(https://www.europadisc.co.uk/images/products-190/1531475530_RIC392.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Zeus on August 02, 2018, 11:32:41 AM
Quote from: kishnevi on July 05, 2015, 01:24:39 PM
http://www.bostonherald.com/entertainment/arts_culture/2015/07/now_playing_harpsichord_of_columbus_era_sounds_again

Digging this post out of obscurity.  I found this disc...

Il Cembalo di Partenope
Catalina Vicens
Carpe Diem

[asin]B06WLJ95Z6[/asin]

I'll download it and check it out, but I am by no means an expert!  Midgley likes it.

UPDATE: the sound is very clear and bright.  On a couple of tracks she really jams.  Who knew?

I bet they sold a lot of harpischords back in the day!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on August 02, 2018, 11:45:01 AM
I purchased this recently and have been very happy with it:

The Lily & the Rose
The Binchois Consort, Andrew Kirkman

(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571282282.png)

A beautifully constructed (and lavishly illustrated) programme of motets from late medieval England.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 08, 2018, 08:44:56 PM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vMPO1CbZgx8/maxresdefault.jpg)

Ensemble Beautus are an all male quartet based in Limousin. I'd say the sound they make is richer than Orlando Consort,  more chocolate and plum They let the music breath and they know how to perform expressively. I like the above very much, a good selection. Mostly a capella, the occasional instrument.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 12, 2018, 08:19:45 AM
I've been listening to Ludus Danielis today, starting with Clemencic (which for me is spoilt by long periods of narration in a language I don't understand) Anyway this one from The Harp Consort seems to me to be a real knockout: refined and heartfelt singing, subtle and tasteful instruments,  not specially Eastern sounding - characterful without being alien.

(https://img.discogs.com/-LaumqN8QixMjZMfZR2tKep94CM=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-6969836-1465902605-5166.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 14, 2018, 08:18:36 AM
Interesting essay covering drama and use of instruments in liturgy, taken from the booklet for this CD

(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/019/MI0001019960.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)


QuoteMysterium Passionis et Resurrectionis Festum Sanctissim(a)e Pasch(a)e ANGELO SONVICO
What moved some of the clergy of the High Mid-dle Ages, in contrast with a Christian tradition that was so hostile to all forms of spectacle and mimic performance, to introduce dramatic representation into the liturgy of the church?

According to traditional theory "the birth of medieval sacred theatre is seen as being in harmo-ny with the evolution of religious spirituality ex-pressed in other spheres of contemporary life". Thus it was that the clergy of the Middle Ages, interpret-ing the new requirements and sensibility of the faith-ful of their time, created the first, rudimentary performances to insert into the Easter Vigil - and later the Christmas mass too - in order to offer a clearer explanation of the Scriptures.

Perhaps, as Johann Drumbl maintains, in a hypothe-sis that conflicts with the one above, "Latin sacred drama was born with the distinctive characteristic of the elitist ceremony in the context of a religious culture that was already projected towards popular forms, with which it was therefore in conflict, proffering values and meanings that had been (or were being) rendered obsolete by trends of religious spirituality and private and popular devotion". "Dramaturgy" thus arises as a cultural reality - in Latin, which was clearly not the language of the un-educated populace - within the restricted circle of a great Benedictine monastery.

Basing our observations strictly on surviving chroni-cles, we note that the progressive dramatisation which was to produce the so-called medieval litur-gical drama developed within the liturgy of the Church, in the celebration of various liturgical areas, as an extension of the functions of Holy Week and Easter, which in themselves were already so theatri-cal and choreographic - we refer, for example, to the procession of the palms, the washing of the feet, the dialogue between Christ and his persecutors and to the custom of distributing parts of the Gospel among various readers in dialogue form which prob-ably existed from the sixth century. The kernel from which all these dramatic extensions developed is the famous trope of the Easter Introit "Quem queritis in sepulchro o christicole? Jesum nazarenum crucifi-xum o coelicole", dating back to about 920.

In this dialogue the Angels (coelicole) ask the pi-ous women (christicole) why they have come to the tomb of the now-risen Christ. Various antiphons that were already part of the Easter office followed this "dramatic project" to build up a short scene. Later on numerous, new and increasingly extensive versions were added, and additional characters ap-peared alongside the Angel and the Marys. Dramas began to go beyond the Easter liturgy and find inspiration in other biblical episodes - the "Lu-dus Danielis" of ca. 1140, for example, tells the sto-ry of the prophet Daniel, the Drama of Herod dating from the twelfth century, set in the period of Epiphany, or the "Sponsus" of the twelfth and thirteenth century which relates the parable of the wise and the foolish virgins. The behaviour of the characters was initially solemn but then became more realistic and sentimental, reflecting the every-day life of the people of the time. In their human aspects Mary and Elizabeth corresponded to the women of the time; Joseph was the village carpenter, and the shepherds who came to the manger were the same shepherds as watched over the flocks that grazed near the cathedral.

The divine office became a tableau vivant in which - in the twelfth century at least, as a factor of the growth of centres of population, the evolution of so-cial life and, above all, the preponderant position that the Cathedral assumed in the life of a town -we can easily imagine the real participation of the faithful in the performance as a genuine "actio sacra", to which a final hymn, "Te Deum" or "Mag-nificat", was often added. This visual and figurative spectacle thus served to nourish and increase their faith.

These dramas were born within the liturgy and as an integral part of the divine office, and originally performed only on the annual occasion of the mys-tery that was being celebrated, but gradually they began to step outside their strictly liturgical confines. Parts were added "ex novo" to the texts, and the additions were increasingly less pertinent to the cult itself, so that often a mixture of the sacred and the profane was achieved. The vulgate began to appear in alternation with Latin, and eventually replaced it. Actors had been restricted to the clergy - and general prescriptions had female parts interpreted by men - but they were replaced by lay people, and the action, which had been set within the church on the altar, moved to the space outside the church and then into the public square. In the fourteenth century the drama evolved into various forms of sacred representations, Mysteries and Miracle plays. The most complex forms of liturgical drama, com-posed between the twelfth and fourteenth centuries, are documented principally in French manuscripts. Yet one of the most precious testimonies of the litur-gical drama of the Passion is of Italian origin, con-tained in a processional drama of the fourteenth century from Cividale, in Friuli. Using the codices I and II of the Cividale manuscript a historically true programme has been reconstructed for this recording: a selection of some of the characteristic parts of the Easter liturgy, recreated by blending liturgical texts (manuscript CII) with the new dra-matic additions of manuscript CI. Analysis of the few surviving Latin medieval Passions shows that the heart of the drama is provided by the "plane-tus". The "lamentum" or "planctus" are extralitur-gical components, generally in verse form, written as a lament for a deceased person. In sacred form they were used, from the tenth century on, principal-ly to represent the feelings of the Virgin and of those who, according to the Gospel, wept at the foot of the cross. The CI Cividale manuscript includes the Holy Mother (Maria Major), Saint John Evangelist (Johannes), Maria Jacobi (mother of James Minor), Maria Salome (mother of the apostles James and John) and Mary Magdalene (the converted sinner). The latter had a particular function within the pan-theon of saints represented in Passion plays in gener-al. Her radical shift in life-style, from sinner to saint, stood as a moral example to the congregation of the faithful. In Carmina Burana the effect of this con-version is reinforced by the introduction of a Di-/ abolus and an Angelus, personifying the evil and good intentions to which Mary Magdalene was exposed.

In the group of pious women, the most sublime figure, statuesque in her immense sorrow, is of course Mary, the Virgin Mother.
In the 125 verses we have from the Cividale "planc-tus", we also find, though only as scenic figures and not in the sung part, an Angel and Christ on the Cross.

The music, written on a four-line musical stave, ac-cording to Pier Paolo Menis, "drawn from the litur-gical material of Gregorian melodies, is certainly the work of an anonymous local composer who undoubt-edly possessed remarkable artistic capabilities: one need only observe the variety of phrasing, the natur-al quality of the exclamations, all tending to serve the drama and reaching moments of intense religious and human

." Gregorian influence is to be seen in modality and tone which clearly recall the atmosphere of the authentic and plagal modes. The similarity of certain intonations to the typical intonation of Gregorian Mode I, F-G-A (A being more or less the reciting note), is quite marked - for example in the strophes: "Munda cam mundo" (Maria Jacobi), "Cur memore deficis" (the two Mary), "0 vos omnes" (Mother Mary) - often followed by the median cadence B flat-A- G-A. Equally typical of the mode is the cadence formula D-E-F- E-D-C-D which we find in numer-ous pieces on the last word of the verse - "Rex celes-tis ... macula" (Johannes), "Flete fideles lacrimae" (Mother Mary).

At the same time, the presence of elements of mo-dal evolution - listen to the melody of the verse "Consolare domina" (Maria Salome) - and the sym-metrical musical phrase, modelled on the poetic verse, provide evidence of sensitivity to the coeval romanza and the form of lauds.

The Latin text seems to be homogenous, even though it is built of a miscellany of pre-existent pieces and others composed ad hoc. Of the 21 verses that make up the composition, ten are taken, with only minor alterations, from the thirteenth- centu-ry sequence "Flete fideles animae".

The verse "0 vos omnes" (Mother Mary) is a pas-sage taken from the "Lamentations" of the prophet Jeremiah which recurs frequently in the responso-ries of Holy Week.

The phrase "Quis est hic qui non Beret" (Maria Salome) is taken from the sequence "Stabat Mater", attributed to Jacopone da Todi.

Among the particular characteristics of the manuscript we note an abundance of directions which explain in great detail the gestures, expres-sions and movements of the characters - hic sibi pectus percutiat..., hic salutat Mariam cum manibus tantum..., Mc tergat suas lacrimas..., Mc ostendat Christum..., hic ostendendo circumcircha et cum manibus ad oculos suos postea dicat... .

The ancient liturgical prescriptions, still respected today, which barred the use of any instrument, in-cluding bells, in the last three days of Holy Week, lead us to assume that the "planctus" did not have any instrumental accompaniment.

In the reconstruction of the complete Easter cycle on the basis of the Cividale codices, the "planctus" is set among other episodes, from the "Crucifixio" to the "Visitatio sepulchri".

Among the elements of the "Crucifixio", contained in the liturgical codex CII, particular interest is found in the replies "Hagios o Theos" to the "In-sults" - lamentations or reproaches of the prophet Micah, sung in turn by soloist and choir, with Gregorian melody of probable Gallic origin - sus-tained by the evocative harmonic atmosphere of the new, nascent musical sensibility.

In the section in "Mors Jhesu Christi Domini Nos-tri", also taken from codex CII, with reference to what the faithful were to do during the night serv-ice, at the moment of Christ's death naturalistic type noises are inserted, as prescribed by the liturgical rubric (Fragor et Strepitus) in a paraphrasis of the Gospels - ... and lo, the veil of the temple was rent asunder from top to bottom, the earth shook, rocks were split ...- . The text of the antiphon "Ecce quomodo moritur justus" is taken from Isaiah 53,7ff, also quoted in the Acts of the Apostles 8,32-33, which although it is a part of the respon-sories of Holy Saturday, was also sung on the evening of Good Friday.

In this reconstruction of the Easter play, the "plane-tus" is followed by the antiphon "Sepulto Domino", just as it is found in the Cividale codex CII.

The third responsory sung during the night mass of Good Friday, within a particular rite, is the "Depositio Crucis", which became part of liturgi-cal custom towards the tenth century and fell into disuse in the eighteenth century. This rite consist-ed in the placing of the Cross, with or without a consecrated host, in a site outside the church, thus commemorating in more expressive manner the in-terment of the body of Christ by Joseph of Arimathea, assisted by the holy women.

The cross was then solemnly taken out of this "sepulchre" at dawn on Easter Sunday, thus representing the mystery of the resurrection. In the ritual of the church of Aquileja we find very elo-quent rubrics on this ceremony.

Next comes the episode of the "Resurrectio Domi-ni" with the antiphon "Christus resurgens ex mor-tuis" and the prose passage "Submersus iacet pharao", both contained in the codex CII. This par-ticularly interesting prose has often been ignored by scholars. It is a genuine polyphonic conductus which was used at the conclusion of the divine office, as a comment on the events that had been commemo-rated. The rhythmic-melodic structure of the com-position, codified in the manuscript of the fourteenth century, suggests that it dates back to the thirteenth century anc is therefore one of the few testimonies of Italian texts in various parts anterior to An Nova.

In the Cividale CI manuscript the Visitatio sepulchri is placed immediately after the planctus Mar-iae. These two episodes share a common poetic metre, common musical notation system and one common melodic piece, "Dum venissam ungere Dominum" - in the "Resurrection", repeated me-lodically three times - and "Mater Jesu crucifixi" - in the "planctus".

The Angel and Christ are now no longer merely scenic figures but have their own sung parts.

The dominant modality in this episode is once again the Protus. The intonation most frequently used re-minds us, in its essential structure, of the plagal mode C-D-F - for example, the verses "Quis revul-vet" (Tres Mariae), "Nolite metuere (Angelus), "0 Maria noli me tangere" (Jhesus).

Most of the final cadences - final note D with a rela-tionship of tension-relaxation A 1 D - lead us back to the authentic mode. The cardinal points of the episode of the Visitatio are the meeting of the three Marys with the Angel who announces "Tam surrex-it, non est hic" and Mary Magdalene's meeting with the risen Christ.

In order to underline the sudden annunciation of the Angel, "lam surrexit", the melody reaches the highest note in the entire episode; a note which we do not find in the similar melodic recapitulation of the phrase "... in Galileam ibitis" in the verse "Ite ad discipulos" sung by the Angel.

The choice of modality in the strophe "Venite et videte" (Angelus) is interesting. To give a more im-posing tone to the invitation made by the celestial messenger, the anonymous composer chooses the solemn Gregorian mode of Tetrardus.

In the episode of Magadalene's encounter with the risen Christ we reach the apex of dramatic intensi-ty when Mary recognises Christ. With part of the sequence of the "Victimas paschali" the choir con-cludes the representation and, as is clearly indicat-ed in the rubrics in the manuscript, returns to the sacresty in procession.

In the text of this sequence we find once again the phrase "Credendum est magis soli Marie veraci quam Judeorum turbe fallaci", an anti-Judaic phrase which was later removed.

Rarely have music and poetry attained such levels of intensity as in the evocation of Christ's passion and resurrection, exciting deep emotion in the soul of listeners, today as in its own time.
English translation by Timothy Alan Shaw
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on August 24, 2018, 12:03:18 PM
I was just considering a disc by the Blue Heron ensemble, and then I came accross this scheduled reissue of their Peterhouse Partbooks series:

[asin]B07FSJFHKW[/asin]
Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on August 24, 2018, 12:40:47 PM
Ha! I was about to say I'll just wait for the box set to appear. But this is the box set. ;D I believe I'll be ordering a copy..
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 24, 2018, 08:24:16 PM
Quote from: Que on August 24, 2018, 12:03:18 PM
I was just considering a disc by the Blue Heron ensemble, and then I came accross this scheduled reissue of their Peterhouse Partbooks series:

[asin]B07FSJFHKW[/asin]
Q

Let me know if you find anything interesting in there, I enjoyed the first recording of Marian hymns, the masses have had less of an impact on me so far.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 06, 2018, 01:24:03 AM
Here's a concert video from Sollazzo Ensemble. I saw them last week -- I hadn't heard of them before -- I thought it was really very special, the song at the end, I thik by Loyset Compère, was magic.

https://www.youtube.com/v/nYjxQ4giHWg
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 02, 2018, 01:21:32 PM
I'm on the tube going home after a Tallis Scholars Eton Choirbook concert.

The high sopranos are just amazing really. There are just a couple of them but they completely steal the show. Without them Tallis Scholars would be nothing really, but with them they're unforgettable, magical. Having said that the basses had some inspiring moments too.

Music by Taverner, Cornysh, Sheppard, Browne. My big revelation was Cornysh, whose music I will explore. The best piece by far was the Taverner magnificat (a6)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Traverso on October 02, 2018, 03:19:05 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 02, 2018, 01:21:32 PM
I'm on the tube going home after a Tallis Scholars Eton Choirbook concert.

The high sopranos are just amazing really. There are just a couple of them but they completely steal the show. Without them Tallis Scholars would be nothing really, but with them they're unforgettable, magical. Having said that the basses had some inspiring moments too.

Music by Taverner, Cornysh, Sheppard, Browne. My big revelation was Cornysh, whose music I will explore. The best piece by far was the Taverner magnificat (a6)
You  are  a rich  man to be  present on  such  an occasion.
The  Tallis  Scholars  made  a recording  with  music  by Cornish
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JBS on October 02, 2018, 04:48:01 PM
Quote from: Traverso on October 02, 2018, 03:19:05 PM

The  Tallis  Scholars  made  a recording  with  music  by Cornish

(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/37175f_4e7ef1be2a8a43a9a5c0f7eca62a24d4~mv2_d_1425_1425_s_2.png/v1/fill/w_533,h_533,al_c,q_80,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/37175f_4e7ef1be2a8a43a9a5c0f7eca62a24d4~mv2_d_1425_1425_s_2.webp)

Probably contains all the relevant recordings, although not necessarily the ones they are currently presenting in concert.
They have a new Josquin CD coming out next month.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 02, 2018, 08:25:25 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51OZ1GsiuRL._SY355_.jpg)

There's also this, I like the bass up sound of Cardinall's Musick very much.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on October 03, 2018, 01:05:36 AM
Hyperion has released the latest installment in the complete Machaut (https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA68206) cycle by the Orlando Consort:

(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571282060.png)

Guillaume de Machaut : The gentle physician
The Orlando Consort

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on October 03, 2018, 08:40:21 AM
Quote from: JBS on October 02, 2018, 04:48:01 PM
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/37175f_4e7ef1be2a8a43a9a5c0f7eca62a24d4~mv2_d_1425_1425_s_2.png/v1/fill/w_533,h_533,al_c,q_80,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/37175f_4e7ef1be2a8a43a9a5c0f7eca62a24d4~mv2_d_1425_1425_s_2.webp)

Probably contains all the relevant recordings, although not necessarily the ones they are currently presenting in concert.
They have a new Josquin CD coming out next month.

Quote from: Mandryka on October 02, 2018, 08:25:25 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51OZ1GsiuRL._SY355_.jpg)

There's also this, I like the bass up sound of Cardinall's Musick very much.

I have this interesting 4 CD set which contains one full CD of the music of Cornysh....


(https://img.discogs.com/rLh3FDd6JG7Jwa-vNMfuB0Pj8u8=/fit-in/521x450/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8374013-1460363633-6505.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Traverso on October 03, 2018, 09:00:02 AM
Quote from: aligreto on October 03, 2018, 08:40:21 AM


I have this interesting 4 CD set which contains one full CD of the music of Cornysh....


(https://img.discogs.com/rLh3FDd6JG7Jwa-vNMfuB0Pj8u8=/fit-in/521x450/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8374013-1460363633-6505.jpeg.jpg)

I have that one too. ;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on October 03, 2018, 09:11:04 AM
Quote from: Traverso on October 03, 2018, 09:00:02 AM
I have that one too. ;)

A fine collection if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Traverso on October 03, 2018, 09:14:31 AM
Quote from: aligreto on October 03, 2018, 09:11:04 AM
A fine collection if I remember correctly.

Their William Byrd is very fine and the English Anthems by Tallis
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on November 13, 2018, 08:54:56 PM
Here's a link which will take you to recent discographies for Aquitaine polyphony, Eton Choirbook, Codex Chantilly, Codex Huelgas and Montpellier Codex.

http://plainsong.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on November 14, 2018, 09:44:30 PM
I have been enormously satisfied with the music of Matteo da Perugia (Perusio) directed by Paul van Nevel , but would like to listen to Medieval Ensemble of London's version, as well.
I see it has been included in a monster 50 CD box Oiseau Lyre named "Medieval & Renaissance" .
This thing could be interesting but Decca Italia tells me that the box is out of stock. No more available !!!   
On Amazon it is offered (used) a crazy prices.
Could you recommend another possible edition of music by this author ?

[ Medieval Ensemble of London ..... I simply fell in love with their edition of the Complete Secular Music by Dufay !!  Fantastic  IMO  !!!!!  ]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Traverso on November 15, 2018, 06:36:05 AM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on November 14, 2018, 09:44:30 PM
I have been enormously satisfied with the music of Matteo da Perugia (Perusio) directed by Paul van Nevel , but would like to listen to Medieval Ensemble of London's version, as well.
I see it has been included in a monster 50 CD box Oiseau Lyre named "Medieval & Renaissance" .
This thing could be interesting but Decca Italia tells me that the box is out of stock. No more available !!!   
On Amazon it is offered (used) a crazy prices.
Could you recommend another possible edition of music by this author ?

[ Medieval Ensemble of London ..... I simply fell in love with their edition of the Complete Secular Music by Dufay !!  Fantastic  IMO  !!!!!  ]

This one is not too bad.

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/MEDIEVAL-RENAISSANCE-Various-50-CD-box/263770282787?hash=item3d69ef1b23:g:NysAAOSwWMtanCkl:rk:1:pf:0
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on November 15, 2018, 09:40:00 AM
Quote from: Traverso on November 15, 2018, 06:36:05 AM
This one is not too bad.

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/MEDIEVAL-RENAISSANCE-Various-50-CD-box/263770282787?hash=item3d69ef1b23:g:NysAAOSwWMtanCkl:rk:1:pf:0
This one is very good indeed !!  Shipping IMO too much expensive. I will ask if they deliver items from Poland to Italy.
But , anyway ......  thank you very very much  :) :) :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on November 15, 2018, 10:52:07 PM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on November 14, 2018, 09:44:30 PM
I have been enormously satisfied with the music of Matteo da Perugia (Perusio) directed by Paul van Nevel , but would like to listen to Medieval Ensemble of London's version, as well.
I see it has been included in a monster 50 CD box Oiseau Lyre named "Medieval & Renaissance" .
This thing could be interesting but Decca Italia tells me that the box is out of stock. No more available !!!   
On Amazon it is offered (used) a crazy prices.
Could you recommend another possible edition of music by this author ?

[ Medieval Ensemble of London ..... I simply fell in love with their edition of the Complete Secular Music by Dufay !!  Fantastic  IMO  !!!!!  ]

I can upload the Medieval Ensemble of London CD for you if you want, let me know. I like them, despite the Oxbridge vowels.

Other worthwhile CDs are from Tetraktys and Mala Punica.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on November 15, 2018, 11:17:37 PM
I wonder if you have heard this recording?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51PKWpNHXyL._SS500.jpg)

De Perugia : Chansons
Tetraktys
November 28, 2016

Somewhat more recent than the Medieval Ensemble of London's recording; I am listening now and am finding it very nice.  Tetraktys is not praised uniformly, but I enjoyed their three volumes of the Chantilly Codex recordings quite a bit.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on November 16, 2018, 03:03:32 AM
Quote from: Traverso on November 15, 2018, 06:36:05 AM
This one is not too bad.

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/MEDIEVAL-RENAISSANCE-Various-50-CD-box/263770282787?hash=item3d69ef1b23:g:NysAAOSwWMtanCkl:rk:1:pf:0
This box is so full of beautiful things that I have decided to buy it !!   :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Traverso on November 16, 2018, 03:59:52 AM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on November 16, 2018, 03:03:32 AM
  This box is so full of beautiful things that I have decided to buy it !!   :)

Congratulations, the secular songs by Dufay are not complete in this box, only one (= 5 CD ) and the Carmina Burana the same.The Dufay songs are wonderful and you might be interested in this box.

I bought mine,the Dufay box much more expensive.Good luck. ;)

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Dufay-Complete-Secular-Music-Medieval-Ensemble-of-London-LOiseau-Lyre-Box-Set/264040002108?hash=item3d7a02b23c:g:430AAOSwXUdbm-Dk:rk:1:pf:0

(https://i.postimg.cc/FHp4LwBT/WP-20180111-15-40-45-Pro-3.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on November 16, 2018, 06:17:57 AM
Quote from: Traverso on November 16, 2018, 03:59:52 AM
Congratulations, the secular songs by Dufay are not complete in this box, only one (= 5 CD ) and the Carmina Burana the same.The Dufay songs are wonderful and you might be interested in this box.

I bought mine,the Dufay box much more expensive.Good luck. ;)

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Dufay-Complete-Secular-Music-Medieval-Ensemble-of-London-LOiseau-Lyre-Box-Set/264040002108?hash=item3d7a02b23c:g:430AAOSwXUdbm-Dk:rk:1:pf:0

(https://i.postimg.cc/FHp4LwBT/WP-20180111-15-40-45-Pro-3.jpg)
I already have the 5 CDs Dufay box , with my complete satisfaction . I'm not against the use of instruments for accompany vocal music, provided they are not too much in evidence against the voices ( example : Bach's motets directed by Gardiner or Harnoncourt ) so the performances of the Medieval Ensemble of London give me a strong sense of completeness and legitimacy. Even the registered sound (analogic remastered) is far better than some more recent digital Cd with their ecclesiastic reverberant acoustic ( perhaps it would cost too much to rent a recording studio..... let's go to church , then  :(  )   
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on November 16, 2018, 01:02:35 PM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on November 16, 2018, 06:17:57 AM
   I already have the 5 CDs Dufay box , with my complete satisfaction . I'm not against the use of instruments for accompany vocal music, provided they are not too much in evidence against the voices ( example : Bach's motets directed by Gardiner or Harnoncourt ) so the performances of the Medieval Ensemble of London give me a strong sense of completeness and legitimacy. Even the registered sound (analogic remastered) is far better than some more recent digital Cd with their ecclesiastic reverberant acoustic ( perhaps it would cost too much to rent a recording studio..... let's go to church , then  :(  )

There are some wonderful things in the box that aren't easily obtainable any other way - the Heinrich Isaac, for example, is a great favourite of mine.

As far as instruments are concerned, you may know that Peter and Timothy Davies completely lost confidence in what they were doing because of scathing review in Oxford Early Music Magazine and maybe in Gramophone too, which mocked them for not playing a cappella. Reviews which, given the state of knowledge at the time and the state of knowledge now, were unjustifiable. It's an interesting study of the way a musical establishment seek to create an ideological hegemony.

The sound is wonderful, warm.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Traverso on November 16, 2018, 02:46:00 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 16, 2018, 01:02:35 PM
There are some wonderful things in the box that aren't easily obtainable any other way - the Heinrich Isaac, for example, is a great favourite of mine.

As far as instruments are concerned, you may know that Peter and Timothy Davies completely lost confidence in what they were doing because of scathing review in Oxford Early Music Magazine and maybe in Gramophone too, which mocked them for not playing a cappella. Reviews which, given the state of knowledge at the time and the state of knowledge now, were unjustifiable. It's an interesting study of the way a musical establishment seek to create an ideological hegemony.

The sound is wonderful, warm.

I am happy with the recordings they made, it is a pity that they seem to have disappeared into thin air.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on November 16, 2018, 08:23:34 PM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on November 16, 2018, 06:17:57 AM
   I already have the 5 CDs Dufay box , with my complete satisfaction . I'm not against the use of instruments for accompany vocal music, provided they are not too much in evidence against the voices ( example : Bach's motets directed by Gardiner or Harnoncourt ) so the performances of the Medieval Ensemble of London give me a strong sense of completeness and legitimacy. Even the registered sound (analogic remastered) is far better than some more recent digital Cd with their ecclesiastic reverberant acoustic ( perhaps it would cost too much to rent a recording studio..... let's go to church , then  :(  )
P.S.   To avoid misunderstandings : my reference to the Bach's motets means that I DO like the way Gardiner and Harnoncourt use instruments for accompany their choirs !
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Traverso on November 17, 2018, 02:28:11 AM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on November 16, 2018, 08:23:34 PM
P.S.   To avoid misunderstandings : my reference to the Bach's motets means that I DO like the way Gardiner and Harnoncourt use instruments for accompany their choirs !

Now we can all sleep peacefully again. ;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on November 19, 2018, 05:05:07 AM
(https://www.decaelis.fr/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/ensemble-de-caelis-album-le-livre-d-alienior-couv-559x511.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/21ZTN98QJCL.jpg)

Is Aliénor de Bretagne the same as Aliénor d'Aquitaine?

I think the De Caelis CD is very cool to hear.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on November 19, 2018, 08:43:10 AM
No.  Alienor (Eleonora) d'Aquitaine was the mother of King Richard the Lionheart , and grandmother of Alienor de Bretagne.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on November 19, 2018, 01:30:30 PM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on November 19, 2018, 08:43:10 AM
No.  Alienor (Eleonora) d'Aquitaine was the mother of King Richard the Lionheart , and grandmother of Alienor de Bretagne.

Thanx
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on December 12, 2018, 07:21:03 AM
I can't get tired of this delightful disc. But I ask myself : wouldn't it be better put an instrument or two playing the notes when there is a textless part in a motet ?  I'd very much like to have on the same disc a motet with a textless part performed with vocalizations, and immediately after the same motet with the part performed by instruments.  Perhaps it would be interesting. Perhaps.
Anyway the singers of the Orlando Consort are so skilled that vocalizations after a few minutes of listening become all in all pleasant.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 12, 2018, 07:48:08 AM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on December 12, 2018, 07:21:03 AM
I can't get tired of this delightful disc. But I ask myself : wouldn't it be better put an instrument or two playing the notes when there is a textless part in a motet ?  I'd very much like to have on the same disc a motet with a textless part performed with vocalizations, and immediately after the same motet with the part performed by instruments.  Perhaps it would be interesting. Perhaps.
Anyway the singers of the Orlando Consort are so skilled that vocalizations after a few minutes of listening become all in all pleasant.

Sequentia use instruments in their De Vitry Cd for some in some of the songs, maybe not the motets,I think it's on YouTube.

Jordi Savall is absolutely brilliant with instruments in a De Vitry motet on his Raymond Lull CD. I also like Early Music Consort of London in Cum Statua - with instruments,



Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JBS on December 19, 2018, 07:43:27 PM
I went  through the liner notes for Blue Heron's Peterhouse partbooks set, written by Scott Metcalfe. It is too long and too much into details to be properly summarized but his two chief points are
--performance pitch in England was not that of the Continent, and English pitch was generally about A=466
-- well into the 1500s and beyond Latin was pronounced just like the local vernacular. He cites a semihumorous anecdote from Erasmus that shows how divergent pronunciation of Latin could be.  But generally Englishmen pronounced Latin with English vowels, French with French etc.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 20, 2018, 12:44:39 AM
Quote from: JBS on December 19, 2018, 07:43:27 PM
I went  through the liner notes for Blue Heron's Peterhouse partbooks set, written by Scott Metcalfe. It is too long and too much into details to be properly summarized but his two chief points are
--performance pitch in England was not that of the Continent, and English pitch was generally about A=466
-- well into the 1500s and beyond Latin was pronounced just like the local vernacular. He cites a semihumorous anecdote from Erasmus that shows how divergent pronunciation of Latin could be.  But generally Englishmen pronounced Latin with English vowels, French with French etc.

This point about A=466, is this based on research done years ago by David Wulstan? If so it's intereting to see his ideas still hold water.  I certainly think it's a good thing to transpose Taverner up, to make the lower voices less muddy.

I hope Latin with C 15 English vowels sounds nothing like Latin with vowels as pronounced in Oxford, I will never forget the ring of « ego admitto te ad gradum Baccalaurei«  - gives me the cold sweats.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on December 26, 2018, 08:45:47 AM
Intersting new release that caught my eye:

[asin]B07KH1FH4W[/asin]
Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on December 30, 2018, 10:26:39 AM
I did not know that Josquin Desprez had written instrumental music, but after all this is not so improbable. Anyway I found this cd very satisfying.
Surprisingly ending with a short moving song by Arvo Part, followed by the reproposal of track 1 ( the piece that gives the title to the album ) with a different organic, and a quicker tempo.
I have particularly liked the baritone voice.  I must explore other things from this Ensemble !!!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 30, 2018, 09:16:55 PM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on December 30, 2018, 10:26:39 AM
I did not know that Josquin Desprez had written instrumental music, but after all this is not so improbable. Anyway I found this cd very satisfying.
Surprisingly ending with a short moving song by Arvo Part, followed by the reproposal of track 1 ( the piece that gives the title to the album ) with a different organic, and a quicker tempo.
I have particularly liked the baritone voice.  I must explore other things from this Ensemble !!!

The voice is that of Raitis Grigalis, I'm a great fan of Marc Lewon's work, he's got some fabulous singers working with him. Another group you may like just as much as Ensemble Leones, if not more, is Per Sonat.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on December 31, 2018, 01:47:48 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Y3O3LTXtL._SX522_.jpg)

A Collection of older recordings, recently released.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on December 31, 2018, 01:54:42 AM
Quote from: The new erato on December 31, 2018, 01:47:48 AM
A Collection of older recordings, recently released.

[asin]B07J35QFR1[/asin]
I noticed as well!  :)
Anyone familiar with them care to comment?
My main issue would be if the perfomance styles are still relevant or outdated?
Since recordings range from 1985 - 2015 and several ensembles are involved, the picture might be mixed...

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on December 31, 2018, 05:37:06 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 30, 2018, 09:16:55 PM
The voice is that of Raitis Grigalis, I'm a great fan of Marc Lewon's work, he's got some fabulous singers working with him. Another group you may like just as much as Ensemble Leones, if not more, is Per Sonat.
Thanks, I will investigate. Happy New Year !
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 31, 2018, 07:40:17 AM
Quote from: Que on December 31, 2018, 01:54:42 AM
[asin]B07J35QFR1[/asin]
I noticed as well!  :)
Anyone familiar with them care to comment?
My main issue would be if the perfomance styles are still relevant or outdated?
Since recordings range from 1985 - 2015 and several ensembles are involved, the picture might be mixed...

Q

The Augsburg people are jaunty and chirpy with a foot tapping clear pulse and they have at least one "characterful" voice, it's a bit like the sort of thing you might hear in a Hollywood depiction of a working class pub on music night circa. 1200; I Ciarlatini are a bit more refined -- a more upmarket bar/restaurant perhaps. Andrea van Ramm's voice is marmite, I like it, I haven't heard this recording but I have heard others in the same series -- we're in the pub again.

The Estampie recording of songs for ladies is nuanced, the singers are communicative, they don't pound the pulse in a naive way, I like it very much.

Per Sonat are soulful and sensual and sexy and absolutely wonderful, and ditto for the Ensemble Leones Wokelstein.  I would also recommend the Naxos Neidhardt CD over the one from the Augsburg ensemble.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on December 31, 2018, 08:06:11 AM
5/11, even 6 if you include von Ramm (which I love) isn't to bad for a cheap compilation like this (I can get it for <GBP 30 everything included t seems....)

Booklets avaialable as pdf's on one of the discs I notice.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on December 31, 2018, 08:42:53 AM
Quote from: The new erato on December 31, 2018, 08:06:11 AM
5/11, even 6 if you include von Ramm (which I love) isn't to bad for a cheap compilation like this (I can get it for <GBP 30 everything included t seems....)

Booklets avaialable as pdf's on one of the discs I notice.
You convinced me  :)  Already ordered on Ebay for € 24 all included :)   
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JBS on December 31, 2018, 04:10:33 PM
Crosspost from the New Releases thread
Two reissues from Ensemble Organum on January 4
[asin]B07F4C15B2[/asin]
[asin]B07F4R27J4[/asin]
And a brand new Stile Antico on January 11
[asin]B07J3691SR[/asin]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 31, 2018, 04:31:55 PM
Quote from: JBS on December 31, 2018, 04:10:33 PM

Two reissues from Ensemble Organum on January 4

And a brand new Stile Antico on January 11


Excellent news!  All three look very interesting and right up my alley.  Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on December 31, 2018, 04:42:53 PM
There's also this on Hyperion this month. Fair warning to fans of lower voices and all-male ensembles, the Portuguese group is 37.5% female, with two altos & a soprano.
(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571282527.png)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JBS on December 31, 2018, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: San Antone on December 31, 2018, 04:31:55 PM
Excellent news!  All three look very interesting and right up my alley.  Thanks for the heads up.

The previous incarnation of the Templar CD is still available on Amazon MP.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 31, 2018, 09:19:43 PM
Quote from: North Star on December 31, 2018, 04:42:53 PM
There's also this on Hyperion this month. Fair warning to fans of lower voices and all-male ensembles, the Portuguese group is 37.5% female, with two altos & a soprano.
(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571282527.png)

;D

Yeah, I had seen this one but decided against it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 01, 2019, 12:43:38 AM
I think Manuel Cardoso's motets are attractive, I'm a bit curious to hear that Hyperion recording.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 01, 2019, 01:13:49 AM
Quote from: JBS on December 31, 2018, 04:10:33 PM
Crosspost from the New Releases thread
Two reissues from Ensemble Organum on January 4
[asin]B07F4C15B2[/asin]
[asin]B07F4R27J4[/asin]

Exciting! Anf stuff I didn't have.

More issues in the same new series:

[asin]B07F4C15B4[/asin]
[asin]B07F4R27J2[/asin]
[asin]B07F4DFHSM[/asin]
Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 01, 2019, 01:15:15 AM
Hard to imagine anyone describing Peres's Hildegard as "exciting" ;)

The packaging is attractive, I wonder if there are any new essays.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 01, 2019, 01:25:21 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 01, 2019, 01:15:15 AM
Hard to imagine anyone describing Peres's Bingen as "exciting" ;)

The packaging is attractive, I wonder if there are any new essays.

Noted...  8) But the Compostela and Templiers  JBS posted do seem enticing.
The two masses are also great recordings, but still readily available... The ways of the recording industry do not always make sense. Next thing you know, is that after all these pretty individual reissues, they throw in a giant budget Ensemble Organum box set...

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 01, 2019, 01:30:42 AM
Quote from: Que on January 01, 2019, 01:25:21 AM
Noted...  8) But the Compostela and Templiers  JBS posted do seem enticing.
The two masses are also great recordings, but still readily available... The ways of the recording industry do not always make sense. Next thing you know, is that after all these pretty individual reissues, they throw in a giant budget Ensemble Organum box set...

Q

Actually I've started to play the Hildegard after making that comment and, well . . . it's gregorian chant, but it's energetically done. Maybe in a way it is exciting.

They are going to release it all as a box, or so I've heard from a friend of mine who knows Marcel Peres. And, as I mentioned once before, he's recorded a new disc of Moroccan chant scheduled for April I believe. It's such a shame he doesn't give more concerts, he's very active still, but mostly with courses. I don't fancy doing a course in chant, I mean, I sing like a casserole.

If you speak French it's worth hearing those interviews I posted, he comes across as a very amusing chap, a jovial raconteur.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 01, 2019, 01:34:39 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 01, 2019, 01:30:42 AM
They are going to release it as a box, or so I've heard from a friend of mine who knows Marcel Peres.

See?  :D But very good yo know - thanks for the info!  :)
I hope it is going to be a big box set, with lots of goodies I've missed sofar...

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on January 04, 2019, 11:57:26 PM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on December 31, 2018, 08:42:53 AM
  You convinced me  :)  Already ordered on Ebay for € 24 all included :)
In the meantime...... I wanted to hear some Landini and have tried this CD from Mala Punica :  disappointed  !
I find the voice of Jill Feldman annoying , too strident ..... and the nasty reverberant acoustic of the Eremo dei Frati Gaudenti in Ronzano (on the hills surrounding Bologna ) doesn't help.
The beautiful melodic line of "Che cosa è questo amore" seems to come from a world of ghosts, and the sequel is not better.
From Arcana I would have expected another care for the choice of recording location.
Nonetheless track 4 is an absolute jewel : "Serà quel zorno may" by Matteo da Perugia is a dreamy otherworldly mantra that lasts 18' (perhaps a bit too much) : after a ten minutes of peroration led by the flute, the voice joins the instruments and the marvel goes on till the end.
This piece redeems the limits of the remaining repertoire.
I still prefer soprano voices like that of Catherine Bott  ( or the italian girls of La Reverdie )
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 05, 2019, 11:27:58 AM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on January 04, 2019, 11:57:26 PM
In the meantime...... I wanted to hear some Landini and have tried this CD from Mala Punica :  disappointed  !
I find the voice of Jill Feldman annoying , too strident ..... and the nasty reverberant acoustic of the Eremo dei Frati Gaudenti in Ronzano (on the hills surrounding Bologna ) doesn't help.
The beautiful melodic line of "Che cosa è questo amore" seems to come from a world of ghosts, and the sequel is not better.
From Arcana I would have expected another care for the choice of recording location.
Nonetheless track 4 is an absolute jewel : "Serà quel zorno may" by Matteo da Perugia is a dreamy otherworldly mantra that lasts 18' (perhaps a bit too much) : after a ten minutes of peroration led by the flute, the voice joins the instruments and the marvel goes on till the end.
This piece redeems the limits of the remaining repertoire.
I still prefer soprano voices like that of Catherine Bott  ( or the italian girls of La Reverdie )

The thing that I like about Mala Punica is that they were pioneers, pioneers of a smooth and fluid style, much more sensual than the a cappella singers (Orlando,  and the previous generation of performers with instruments (e.g. the stuff Catherine Bott did with Philip Pickett or indeed La Reverdie) This style has become an element of the mainstream, I think for the good but I can't argue for that, examples include Graindelavoix and Tetraktys.

I agree with your point about sound though for me it's certainly not a deal breaker. No point in arguing about singers, you either like Jill Feldman or you don't, end of.

Re Landini, try Binkley, I think it's rather good,

(https://img.discogs.com/W6pqhDE-vtt2m-Hx2ubP9QRYHpA=/fit-in/600x612/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-12172011-1530931172-8087.jpeg.jpg)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 05, 2019, 11:19:53 PM
(https://cdn1.imggmi.com/uploads/2019/1/6/c57f183a7f9fbd7d2132a59a50699f49-full.jpg)

Someone has kindly given me a transfer of Rene Clemencic's performance of Dufay's Missa Ave Regina Coelorum. The style in the ordinaries is very similar to his commercially released recording of Dufay's Missa Ecce Ancilla Domini, though here I'll note that there's a rather beautiful incantation (solo) of  Ave Regina Coelorum before the first Kyrie.

I was very interested by his essay on the sleeve, where Clemencic makes this comment

QuoteAccording to numerous contemporary reports on interpretation, at the celebration of the great ecclesiastical feast days, "during the customary parts of the singing the kettle drums and wind instruments sounded" -- in fact a type of solemn fanfare was improvised. Passages of particular moment in the mass could be emphasised by the addition of wind instruments and kettle drums

Has anyone here researched this? I wonder what the "numerous contemporary reports" are. And I wonder where his quotation  "during the customary parts of the singing the kettle drums and wind instruments sounded" comes from.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 13, 2019, 03:11:52 AM
This seems to be quite a substantial annotated discography of early music, the work of a librarian by the looks of it,  I'm not quite sure what it is for, it seems to be connected to Gonville and Caius College Cambridge. Anyway I thought I'd use the thread as my way of bookmarking it,

https://www.cai.cam.ac.uk/sites/default/files/medmusic.pdf
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JCBuckley on January 13, 2019, 08:17:57 AM
Just wondering - has anyone here seen a copy of this? - http://www.graindelavoix.org/paginas/timeregained.html

Looks very interesting, but I doubt if any UK bookshop has it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 13, 2019, 10:18:56 AM
Quote from: JCBuckley on January 13, 2019, 08:17:57 AM
Just wondering - has anyone here seen a copy of this? - http://www.graindelavoix.org/paginas/timeregained.html

Looks very interesting, but I doubt if any UK bookshop has it.

if you get hold of the booklet essay that Schmelzer wrote on Machaut, you'll see that Warburg is a serious inspiration for him. I may ask one of the London bookshops if they can get a copy for me to look at before deciding whether to buy, Foyles may do it in fact, they've done that sort of thing for me before. The publisher's website here has more images, but hardly helpful really

https://www.merpaperkunsthalle.org/projects/view/1306
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JCBuckley on January 15, 2019, 06:17:04 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 13, 2019, 10:18:56 AM
if you get hold of the booklet essay that Schmelzer wrote on Machaut, you'll see that Warburg is a serious inspiration for him. I may ask one of the London bookshops if they can get a copy for me to look at before deciding whether to buy, Foyles may do it in fact, they've done that sort of thing for me before. The publisher's website here has more images, but hardly helpful really

https://www.merpaperkunsthalle.org/projects/view/1306

As you say, not very helpful. But thanks for the tip about Foyles - I'll drop in, next time I'm up in London.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on January 15, 2019, 08:47:47 PM
What a surprise to hear the 'true' voice (but is it correct to say so?) of Andreas Scholl in "Durch Barbarei" and "Wes mich mein buehl"  !!  A very pleasant,warm and clear baritone voice.  Marc Lewon and Crawford Young together in the instrumental group.
Now I'm anxious to listen to the Ensemble Leones in the same (more or less) repertoire !
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 18, 2019, 11:33:40 PM
(https://i.scdn.co/image/a40b78eea30ca6f8c62318bd84e12ac15c651546)

Faidit: Troubadour Music from the 12th-13th Centuries
Andras Kecskes, Gerard le Vot

A very nice selection of music from 12th-13th centuries, arranged and performed very well, imo.  Gerard le Vot's name came up in the Purchases thread and led me to this CD.  Andras Kecskes leads this ensemble, and I think he plays lute and other stringed instruments.

Some wiki info on the composer:

Gaucelm Faidit (Old Occitan [ɡawˈtʃɛlm fajˈdit] literally "Gaucelm the Dispossessed" c. 1156 – c. 1209) was a troubadour, born in Uzerche, in the Limousin, from a family of knights in service of the count of Turenne. He travelled widely in France, Spain, and Hungary. His known patrons include Geoffrey II, Duke of Brittany and Dalfi d'Alvernha; he was at one time in Poitiers at the court of Richard I of England, for whose death he wrote a famous planh (lament) in 1199. It is possible, but controversial, that Gaucelm took part in the Third Crusade from 1189–1191; it seems clear that in 1202 he set out on the Fourth Crusade, as did his current patron, Boniface of Montferrat. After 1202 there is no further historical trace of him.

About seventy of Gaucelm's poems and fourteen of his melodies survive. Six poems are addressed to Boniface of Montferrat, and twelve to Maria de Ventadorn. Several of his poems are accompanied in the manuscripts by detailed explanations (razós), usually concerning love affairs and rivalries that allegedly inspired the poems. These tales involve Gaucelm with Hugh IX of Lusignan, his son Hugh X, Alfonso II, Count of Provence, and others.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 20, 2019, 04:00:27 AM
I know four recordings which have in their title "Roman de Fauvel" -- Joel Cohen, Thomas Binkley, Marc Mauillon and Rene Clemencic. I don't find any of them specially rewarding, maybe it's a consequence the nature of the beast, as it were, or just my personal taste in voices. Then I remembered that the manuscript for the Roman includes songs by Jean Lescurel, and like a divine recompense after wasting my time in the arid plains of the Roman de Fauvel, I find this drop dead gorgeous recording from Dominique Vellard

(https://img.discogs.com/W3GiLA-zZeev8sl5gfa1xwQy8Kg=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-2954564-1308987188.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 20, 2019, 04:05:15 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 20, 2019, 04:00:27 AM
I know four recordings which have in their title "Roman de Fauvel" -- Joel Cohen, Thomas Binkley, Marc Mauillon and Rene Clemencic. I don't find any of them specially rewarding, maybe it's a consequence the nature of the beast, as it were, or just my personal taste in voices. Then I remembered that the manuscript for the Roman includes songs by Jean Lescurel, and like a divine recompense after wasting my time in the arid plains of the Roman de Fauvel, I find this drop dead gorgeous recording from Dominique Vellard

(https://img.discogs.com/W3GiLA-zZeev8sl5gfa1xwQy8Kg=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-2954564-1308987188.jpeg.jpg)

Here is the reissue:

[asin]B000CEBOPE[/asin]
Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on January 21, 2019, 06:27:11 AM
Quote from: Que on December 31, 2018, 01:54:42 AM
[asin]B07J35QFR1[/asin]
I noticed as well!  :)
Anyone familiar with them care to comment?
My main issue would be if the perfomance styles are still relevant or outdated?
Since recordings range from 1985 - 2015 and several ensembles are involved, the picture might be mixed...

Q
This box is full of beautiful things.  Soprano Sabine Lutzenberger is present in almost all the discs .  The Vogelweide CD is very good, and so is the Wolkenstein CD from Ensemble Leones (there is another E.Leones disc -CD10- with several Wolkenstein pieces)
But I would like to mention the Sabine Lutzenberger's impressive tour de force in "Der Taugenhort" by Heinrich von Meissen .  Her delightful voice and the magic flute of Norbert Rodenkirchen, nobody else !!!   Hats off !!!! wow  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 21, 2019, 11:25:20 AM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on January 21, 2019, 06:27:11 AM
This box is full of beautiful things.  Soprano Sabine Lutzenberger is present in almost all the discs .  The Vogelweide CD is very good, and so is the Wolkenstein CD from Ensemble Leones (there is another E.Leones disc -CD10- with several Wolkenstein pieces)
But I would like to mention the Sabine Lutzenberger's impressive tour de force in "Der Taugenhort" by Heinrich von Meissen .  Her delightful voice and the magic flute of Norbert Rodenkirchen, nobody else !!!   Hats off !!!! wow  :)

You should treat yourself to this (I don't think it's in the box)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61IRGFG8wQL._SY446_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)

This too, I don't think it's there either

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41SMq71KOnL.jpg)

She's also on an "experimental" Wolkenstein recording, which I've not heard in fact

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51eVjIqKpkL._SX342_QL70_.jpg)

For a completely different approach to Wolkenstein, and IMO at least as satisfying, there's this -- this is the CD which got me interested in the music

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51vixLoAEnL._SS500.jpg)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on January 21, 2019, 11:45:41 PM
I have seen some Eberhard Kummer video on YouTube :  he not only performs medieval music and poetry , he IS a fascinating medieval man  :) :)
His approach to Wolkenstein is very different from the others I know.  Formidable !!! 
The CD he made is unavailable .  I will try to contact him by mail , perhaps ....... :)

P.S.  Le Roman de la Rose is not included in the 11cd box , but it was already present in my fast growing (too fast ?)  medieval music collection.
       Not even the Lutzenberger/Rodenkirchen CD (with stunning cover photo) is included :  just ordered .   Thanks.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 23, 2019, 11:07:53 AM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on January 21, 2019, 11:45:41 PM
I have seen some Eberhard Kummer video on YouTube :  he not only performs medieval music and poetry , he IS a fascinating medieval man  :) :)

Another artist to explore, much more quintessentially medieval than Eberhard Kummer, is René Zosso.


https://www.youtube.com/v/mIq07QYdab4
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on January 31, 2019, 08:06:09 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 05, 2019, 11:27:58 AM
The thing that I like about Mala Punica is that they were pioneers, pioneers of a smooth and fluid style, much more sensual than the a cappella singers (Orlando,  and the previous generation of performers with instruments (e.g. the stuff Catherine Bott did with Philip Pickett or indeed La Reverdie) This style has become an element of the mainstream, I think for the good but I can't argue for that, examples include Graindelavoix and Tetraktys.

I agree with your point about sound though for me it's certainly not a deal breaker. No point in arguing about singers, you either like Jill Feldman or you don't, end of.

Re Landini, try Binkley, I think it's rather good,

(https://img.discogs.com/W6pqhDE-vtt2m-Hx2ubP9QRYHpA=/fit-in/600x612/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-12172011-1530931172-8087.jpeg.jpg)
Oh well  !!!  Thanks to God (and to Mandryka) I have finally found a completely satisfying disc of Francesco Landini's music.
There remains , to a negligible extent, the post-coitum / post-cannabis sound atmosphere that Memelsdorf & MalaPunica push to an excessive(IMO) level, in the Arcana recording. Evidently this is a sound aura that the music itself of Landini requires. 
Very beautiful. Listening the two singers involved , it is CLEAR that they are singing an Italian text , not a text written in a language from a distant galaxy !!!
[ I apologize for polemizing so much against the three CDs made by Memelsdorf for Arcana ( I bought them all three) .... where instead "Missa Cantilena" and "Helas avril" made for Erato are IMHO absolutely involving, without reserve.  And more :  "Narcisso speculando" with madrigals by Paolo da Firenze is worthy of being appointed Desert Island Disc . So I can say that Pedro gets better as the years go by :) :) :)  ]
P.S.  I find Missa Cantilena 'irresistible'  ( generally speaking, for reasons of mine, I don't love much Masses ..... but there are three of them I adore : Janacek , Stravinsky and Frank Martin .  I add to these now the Memelsdorff/Perugia/Teramo Mass.  Great achievement !!  Thanks.  W la Musica . 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 01, 2019, 09:28:21 PM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on January 31, 2019, 08:06:09 AM
Oh well  !!!  Thanks to God (and to Mandryka) I have finally found a completely satisfying disc of Francesco Landini's music.
There remains , to a negligible extent, the post-coitum / post-cannabis sound atmosphere that Memelsdorf & MalaPunica push to an excessive(IMO) level, in the Arcana recording. Evidently this is a sound aura that the music itself of Landini requires. 
Very beautiful. Listening the two singers involved , it is CLEAR that they are singing an Italian text , not a text written in a language from a distant galaxy !!!
[ I apologize for polemizing so much against the three CDs made by Memelsdorf for Arcana ( I bought them all three) .... where instead "Missa Cantilena" and "Helas avril" made for Erato are IMHO absolutely involving, without reserve.  And more :  "Narcisso speculando" with madrigals by Paolo da Firenze is worthy of being appointed Desert Island Disc . So I can say that Pedro gets better as the years go by :) :) :)  ]
P.S.  I find Missa Cantilena 'irresistible'  ( generally speaking, for reasons of mine, I don't love much Masses ..... but there are three of them I adore : Janacek , Stravinsky and Frank Martin .  I add to these now the Memelsdorff/Perugia/Teramo Mass.  Great achievement !!  Thanks.  W la Musica .

If their discography here is accurate

https://www.discogs.com/artist/844152-Studio-Der-Fr%C3%BChen-Musik

then they were really unbelievably productive around 1972, I like most of the music  I've heard of theirs from that year - Ciconia, Machaut, Walkenstein, Landidni. Maybe (I'm not 100% sure about this) at this time, Tomas Binkley was using instruments discretely. I especially like his lute. 

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on February 01, 2019, 11:40:32 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 01, 2019, 09:28:21 PM
If their discography here is accurate

https://www.discogs.com/artist/844152-Studio-Der-Fr%C3%BChen-Musik

then they were really unbelievably productive around 1972, I like most of the music  I've heard of theirs from that year - Ciconia, Machaut, Walkenstein, Landidni. Maybe (I'm not 100% sure about this) at this time, Tomas Binkley was using instruments discretely. I especially like his lute.
The chansons de Machaut are pretty well done , as well,  by the Binkley group. ( I have volume 1 ).
But I sadly miss the Ferrara Ensemble CD devoted to Machaut  "  Merci ou mort " .  Not to be found.  Hoping in some future non-expensive multi CD box from Arcana/Outhere , including this Machaut.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 01, 2019, 11:46:56 PM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on February 01, 2019, 11:40:32 PM
  The chansons de Machaut are pretty well done , as well,  by the Binkley group. ( I have volume 1 ).
But I sadly miss the Ferrara Ensemble CD devoted to Machaut  "  Merci ou mort " .  Not to be found.  Hoping in some future non-expensive multi CD box from Arcana/Outhere , including this Machaut.

Let me know if you want me to upload it for you.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on February 01, 2019, 11:57:52 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 01, 2019, 09:28:21 PM
If their discography here is accurate

https://www.discogs.com/artist/844152-Studio-Der-Fr%C3%BChen-Musik


And a Binkley discography here:

http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/performers/binkley.html
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on February 02, 2019, 12:48:10 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on February 01, 2019, 11:57:52 PM
And a Binkley discography here:

http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/performers/binkley.html
The late Thomas Binkley founded the Early Music Institute ( or Historical Performance Instutute ) in 1980 , at the Indiana University, Bloomington.
I think this is the same institute where the lutenist Nigel North teaches. 
The Institute also offer to sell some CD recordings  :  http://www.iumusicmarketplace.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=23
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 02, 2019, 08:55:15 AM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on February 02, 2019, 12:48:10 AM
The late Thomas Binkley founded the Early Music Institute ( or Historical Performance Instutute ) in 1980 , at the Indiana University, Bloomington.
I think this is the same institute where the lutenist Nigel North teaches. 
The Institute also offer to sell some CD recordings  :  http://www.iumusicmarketplace.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=23

Has anyone tried the Dufay masses that Binkley recorded with The Pro Arte Singers?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on February 04, 2019, 08:39:45 AM
 :-\   Arrived this morning, immediately put it on the player ......  the beginning reminds me of the unmistakable sonic flavour of the Tasto Solo recordings (two members of TS are playing in this disc, Perez and Catalunya) ..... I am fascinated, but also puzzled ..... The perception of something that has been too much "manipulated" is very strong.  Put aside for the moment :  His Time Will Come !!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 04, 2019, 10:17:11 AM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on February 04, 2019, 08:39:45 AM
:-\   Arrived this morning, immediately put it on the player ......  the beginning reminds me of the unmistakable sonic flavour of the Tasto Solo recordings (two members of TS are playing in this disc, Perez and Catalunya) ..... I am fascinated, but also puzzled ..... The perception of something that has been too much "manipulated" is very strong.  Put aside for the moment :  His Time Will Come !!

Yes, they sound processed like Queen in Bohemian Rhapsody.  I like it very much. In the booklet he says this, which I thought was interesting

QuoteThe guiding thread in all these pieces by Paolo is an aesthetic that new in fifteenth-century music: long melodic sequences, almost tonal in character and intention, go hand in hand with an old-fashioned harmonic ( solemnity. It is as if he was trying to revive structurally the music language of the beginning of the fourteenth century, while at the same time offering a new style of his own. With hindsight, we can see that it is in spirit to the later than the early Renaissance, then only just corning into view.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on February 07, 2019, 06:33:23 AM
Good compilation of Wolkenstein songs
I particularly liked Andrea von Ramm numbers : in track 6 ( Der mai mit lieber zal ) she displays an astonishing agility that almost equals that of Catherine Bott in the same song (Oiseau Lyre disc) but, apart from agility, she is a bit more colourful and ironic than Bott.
In track 1 Bariton Karl-Heinz Klein sings all the 7 stanzas of the autobiographic "Es fuegt sich" ( 11 minutes long ).  I liked him , but Eberhard Kummer is another world  :)
The analogic recording dates back to 1970 , the sound is magnificent IMO
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 07, 2019, 07:21:15 AM
I bet you'll enjoy hearing this

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/7123tLM3QZL._SS500_.jpg)


https://www.youtube.com/v/GUVcmrylU8g
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on February 11, 2019, 06:19:38 AM
I have bought for a little money this box produced by ORF ( Austrian TV ) :  2 CDs plus 1 DVD
In the DVD there is a 60' movie, where all the Eberhard Kummer videos you find on YouTube are taken from. Here is the list :
a) H. von Montfort  "Ich frow mich gen"
b) H. von Montfort  "Ich fragt ain wachter"
c) Nibelungenlied "Uns ist in alten maeren"
d) Anonym/von der Vogelweide  "En mai / Under der linden"
e) Anonym  "Es hat ein biderman ein weib"
f) Kaspar von der Roen  "Zwerg Laurin"
g) O. von Wolkenstein "Es nahet gen der uasenacht"

A Tyrolean Homer  :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 11, 2019, 08:47:20 AM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on February 11, 2019, 06:19:38 AM
I have bought for a little money this box produced by ORF ( Austrian TV ) :  2 CDs plus 1 DVD
In the DVD there is a 60' movie, where all the Eberhard Kummer videos you find on YouTube are taken from. Here is the list :
a) H. von Montfort  "Ich frow mich gen"
b) H. von Montfort  "Ich fragt ain wachter"
c) Nibelungenlied "Uns ist in alten maeren"
d) Anonym/von der Vogelweide  "En mai / Under der linden"
e) Anonym  "Es hat ein biderman ein weib"
f) Kaspar von der Roen  "Zwerg Laurin"
g) O. von Wolkenstein "Es nahet gen der uasenacht"

A Tyrolean Homer  :) :) :) :)

Let me know if you see this for sale anywhere again, I wouldn't mind hearing it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on February 11, 2019, 08:52:38 PM
I found it in a shop of used books, together with Graindelavoix "Motets" .  A lucky strike !
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on February 13, 2019, 06:31:56 AM
I was rather biased towards this CD .  On the contrary , I've liked it immediately, at first listening.  But....are we sure that these are not Arvo Part's compositions ?   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 13, 2019, 06:42:40 AM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on February 13, 2019, 06:31:56 AM
I was rather biased towards this CD (Motets/Graindelavoix] . 

I used to be somewhat biased against Schmelzer's approach but have come to respect what he does quite a bit.  My entire orientation towards the performance of early music has done an almost 180 degree rotation.  It is in response to a combination of reading Richard Taruskin and discussions with Elizabeth Eva Leech on the subject of "authenticity" in performance of early music.  Also a brief colloquy with Schmelzer regarding his recording of the Machaut Messe de Nostre Dame.

Early music as done by Graindelavoix, for me, is a creative and imaginative and very enjoyable experience to hear.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 13, 2019, 11:17:38 AM
I'm very tempted to go and hear them have a go at Gesualdo in Paris (Louvre) in April.

By the way Sollazzo Ensemble have a new programme, Firenze circa 1350, which they'll do in Cambridge in May, I'll try to get there.

Huelgas Ensemble are doing a three day total immersion event in a little inaccessible place near Dijon, Eglise Notre-Dame de Talant,  am I mad enough to go?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on February 13, 2019, 11:25:36 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 13, 2019, 11:17:38 AM
I'm very tempted to go and hear them have a go at Gesualdo in Paris (Louvre) in April.

By the way Sollazzo Ensemble have a new programme, Firenze circa 1350, which they'll do in Cambridge in May, I'll try to get there.

Huelgas Ensemble are doing a three day total immersion event in a little inaccessible place near Dijon, Eglise Notre-Dame de Talant,  am I mad enough to go?

Is this it?

(http://eeemerging.eu/wp-content/uploads/COUV2400x2400_AMY309-SITE-internet.jpg)

I like this recording, but like it even more if it did not use women.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 13, 2019, 11:30:17 AM
Quote from: San Antone on February 13, 2019, 11:25:36 AM
Is this it?

(http://eeemerging.eu/wp-content/uploads/COUV2400x2400_AMY309-SITE-internet.jpg)

I like this recording, but like it even more if it did not use women.

I'm not sure. If that is it then I'll make a real effort to go.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JBS on February 13, 2019, 01:49:19 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 13, 2019, 11:17:38 AM
.

Huelgas Ensemble are doing a three day total immersion event in a little inaccessible place near Dijon, Eglise Notre-Dame de Talant,  am I mad enough to go?

I would say if logistics allow, you would be mad not to go...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on February 14, 2019, 08:43:33 PM
Quote from: San Antone on February 13, 2019, 06:42:40 AM
I used to be somewhat biased against Schmelzer's approach but have come to respect what he does quite a bit.  My entire orientation towards the performance of early music has done an almost 180 degree rotation.  It is in response to a combination of reading Richard Taruskin and discussions with Elizabeth Eva Leech on the subject of "authenticity" in performance of early music.  Also a brief colloquy with Schmelzer regarding his recording of the Machaut Messe de Nostre Dame.

Early music as done by Graindelavoix, for me, is a creative and imaginative and very enjoyable experience to hear.
Repeated listening of "Motets" by Graindelavoix have wiped out all the reserves I had on first listening :  this is a great CD !!!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on March 29, 2019, 08:46:49 AM
Troubadours and trouvères. Some pieces are purely instrumental.  The vocal pieces show the fresh, girlish voice of Mara Kiek , a new entry for me.
She is clearly at ease in songs like " Kalenda Maia " ( Vaqueiras ) and " L'on dit q'amors est dolce chose " ( anon. )  and well manages to characterize the two protagonists ( the poet Giraut de Bornehl and the young maid Alamanda ) of the 'tenso' at track 10 .
Immediately in search of other performances of this Australian-born singer !!!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 29, 2019, 10:31:47 AM


(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571152981.png)


Christopher Page says

QuoteThe performances gathered here are based upon the assumption that the cancionero repertory was primarily intended for unaccompanied voices, rather than for the ensembles of mixed voices and instruments so widely used for this music today. This change in performance practice has the potential to modify our perception of these pieces. The declamation of a text often becomes more iterative and urgent once all the voices participate in it (as in Harto de tanta porfía E1, for example), while the harmony can become thicker and more dramatic, especially in homophonic pieces such as Juan del Encina's Mi libertad 1 where the texture establishes a rapid succession of unanimous changes of vowel colour. This generates the brightness familiar to those who know the poly - phonic conducti of earlier centuries. An a cappella approach also sidesteps some of the recurrent problems associated with this music in modern performance: the tendency to use consorts of viols—an anachronism (unfortunately) in the music of Encina and his contemporaries—or to employ percussion, so often used today to give some pieces a rumbustious or theatrical character when it might be argued that they require neither.

The justification is not given historically, it's given in performance terms. The justification consists in the drama, the textures, the way it avoids things he doesn't like like theatricality. He's not saying that people sang it a cappella in the day; he's saying he's assuming they did to see what happens.

It may be that what's happening is that a small and limited historical argument about a cappella has inspired performances in areas like Spanish music, not for HIP reasons, but because it's fun to experiment.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 29, 2019, 02:09:58 PM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on March 29, 2019, 08:46:49 AM
Troubadours and trouvères. Some pieces are purely instrumental.  The vocal pieces show the fresh, girlish voice of Mara Kiek , a new entry for me.
She is clearly at ease in songs like " Kalenda Maia " ( Vaqueiras ) and " L'on dit q'amors est dolce chose " ( anon. )  and well manages to characterize the two protagonists ( the poet Giraut de Bornehl and the young maid Alamanda ) of the 'tenso' at track 10 .
Immediately in search of other performances of this Australian-born singer !!!

A very penetrating sound, and quite a music theatre way of singing I think.

it's interesting that performance of Kalenda Maia because I'm used to hearing it as a jaunty dance.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JBS on March 30, 2019, 07:20:06 PM
Crosspost from WAYLT

CD 2 Vespers of St Joseph
[asin]B07NB946S6[/asin]
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61-ZCH9Ui5L.jpg)

Live recordings from 2005. You can tell this was recorded in a church from the sound.
The Selva are, for this set, arranged in three programs: Vespers of St Gabriele, Vespers of St. Joseph, and a Missa Solemnis. To do this, five non-liturgical pieces, two hymns, and a motet were omitted, so this is not a truly complete recording. But otherwise it seems exemplary.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 04, 2019, 12:55:03 AM
Do you like early fiddle music?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/716N54wb6FL._SX355_.jpg)

Dietmar Berger
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on April 04, 2019, 01:09:55 AM
Quote from: San Antone on April 04, 2019, 12:55:03 AM
Do you like early fiddle music?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/716N54wb6FL._SX355_.jpg)

Dietmar Berger

Love this, I play it quite often, once I start to listen to it I find it hard to pull myself away,  I like also his Manchester Viol Book recording.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 04, 2019, 01:18:52 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on April 04, 2019, 01:09:55 AM
Love this, I play it quite often, once I start to listen to it I find it hard to pull myself away,  I like also his Manchester Viol Book recording.

Did we have a discussion about these recordings before?  I seem to remember discussing this music now that you mention the Manchester recording - which made me also think of the Berlin viol gamba album. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on April 04, 2019, 02:04:22 AM
Quote from: San Antone on April 04, 2019, 01:18:52 AM
Did we have a discussion about these recordings before?  I seem to remember discussing this music now that you mention the Manchester recording - which made me also think of the Berlin viol gamba album.

I don't know, though I've known about him for years. The one I've never got into is the Berlin Gamba Book, maybe I should try it again. In the Manchester Gamba Book there's a fabulous thing, a pavan by Gervise Gerrarde. While I appreciate Dietmar Berger for having made this music accessible there's a recording on Spotify of the Gerrarde pavan by Jonathan Dunford which shows up Dietmar's limitations as a musician a bit.

(https://cdbaby.name/j/o/jonathandunford4.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on April 12, 2019, 12:46:00 AM
Sabine Lutzenberger has a consolidated place in my personal pantheon, Mara Kiek is pushing to enter in it !!
Mara's reading of the seven Canciones de amigo by Martin Codax is heartfelt, full of pathos , her singing points toward the 'viscera' (the 3 lower chakras) and then reaches the 'heart' (the 3 middle chakras) .   Sabine's singing (expecially in this marvellous CD) goes directly to the heart .... aiming to the Heaven (the 3 upper chakras, and beyond...... )     :) :) :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on April 12, 2019, 01:29:34 AM
Just found this: unknown composer, passionate music, passionate performance (love the woman's voice)

https://www.youtube.com/v/7bHXaF40Tmg
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on April 12, 2019, 03:57:26 AM
Speaking of Schmelzer, when I watched your clip this video came up as related to it:

https://www.youtube.com/v/6Uec85gC7m4

I think it is very interesting and touches on topics that have been discussed on GMG.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on April 12, 2019, 05:18:09 AM
Quote from: San Antone on April 12, 2019, 03:57:26 AM
Speaking of Schmelzer, when I watched your clip this video came up as related to it:

https://www.youtube.com/v/6Uec85gC7m4

I think it is very interesting and touches on topics that have been discussed on GMG.

Yes I saw that a while ago, he's good!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on April 25, 2019, 09:34:18 PM
I heard The Orlando Consort give a concert of English music yesterday.

The concert rather confirmed my impressions of what they do. Extremely polished singing. Where they work best is in music which is either very quirky or which has an attractive melody. Where the music has less of a hook, they are maybe slightly less charismatic.

What I didn't appreciate from record is that one of their singers is really excellent, with a striking ability to make the words mean something: the tenor Mark Dobell. Maybe he is just much more inspired in  concerts than he is in the studio, or maybe he was just in a good mood last night.

Just as some people find fault in The Tallis Consort for letting their art become dominated by their ravishing sopranos, it would be possible to find fault in The Orlando Consort for letting their art become dominated by their countertenor. Matthew Venner's voice is beautiful, and they let it dominate the ensemble sound a lot of the time. The barytone and second tenor contributions are consistently disappointing.

They introduced the music to the audience before each group of pieces. It became clear that they pride themselves on how they've worked hard to give an interpretation which is true to the composer's intentions. It was also interesting that they became quite defensive about this, where the music is dissonant or angular they kept on saying things like "you may not believe your ears, but we think this is what the composer had in mind."

Oh two amusing things. The first is that Mark Venner really does look like Tintin. And as their voices get deeper, they get older! Is that a coincidence?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on May 19, 2019, 05:39:13 AM
Well, this early music is very early . I find it enchanting .  Particularly the voice of Agnethe Christensen strikes me !  Has she done other recordings with Sequentia ?  But equally noteworthy is the flute of Norbert Rodenkirchen. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on May 19, 2019, 05:44:36 AM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on May 19, 2019, 05:39:13 AM
Well, this early music is very early . I find it enchanting .  Particularly the voice of Agnethe Christensen strikes me !  Has she done other recordings with Sequentia ?

One other it seems, which I do not know. But i know her recordings with Alba, and do recommend them:

https://www.discogs.com/artist/1352086-Agnethe-Christensen
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on May 19, 2019, 06:11:30 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on May 19, 2019, 05:44:36 AM
One other it seems, which I do not know. But i know her recordings with Alba, and do recommend them:

https://www.discogs.com/artist/1352086-Agnethe-Christensen
Many thanks.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on May 19, 2019, 10:27:14 AM
Has anyone heard this one?

(https://img.discogs.com/ZW5VOur5n7nLfsAyCbCtaUFea6k=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-12186900-1530039961-2323.bmp.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on May 20, 2019, 05:55:09 AM
A copy for sale on Discogs , rather expensive , otherwise  :
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on May 20, 2019, 06:19:27 AM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on May 20, 2019, 05:55:09 AM
A copy for sale on Discogs , rather expensive , otherwise  :

I must say, listening to the Rhineland harper CD, which I agree is excellent, I'm quite tempted. I'm resisting but only just.

Damn
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on May 20, 2019, 09:11:16 PM
Anyone heard this?

(https://www.sequentia.org/images/recordings/chant_wars_l.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on May 21, 2019, 01:55:31 AM
Two ideas about early music performance have captured my imagination.

One is a comment by Rebecca Stewart

Quote from: Rebecca Stewart here http://www.cantusmodalis.org/ my boldThe principle point of departure is vibration, not sound. (For western-trained singers and instrumentalists, with our preoccupation with the externally-oriented concept of tonal beauty, this concept cannot be sufficiently stressed.) The concentration of the singer/player is on becoming in-tuned with this vibration and of 'playing' with it in perfect harmony with his acoustical surroundings, not on the manipulation of the resultant sound by artificial or contrived means which are at odds with the modality of the music and the space in which the vibration is taking place. Therefore the singer/player can only function optimally within a situation in which he can feel that the vibrations within his body (or instrument) are matched by those of the acoustical conditions of the space in which he is being 'incantated'. In this way he experiences no separation between himself and his surroundings. The preferred surfaces of the space in which the vibrations are elicited are reflective and the dimensions of the space itself are 'in harmony' with them. No chant was ever inspired by supermarket acoustics. Neither, for that matter, by most modern concert halls and many modern churches

And one is by Benjamin Bagby, who after quoting with approval an observation of Craig Wright (Music and Ceremony at Notre Dame of Paris, 500-1550 (Cambridge University Press, 1989)) that " the final architectural form of Notre Dame of Paris took shape in the 17th and 18th centuries, when the medieval choir walls were dismantled, the sanctuary rebuilt, . . .  Accordingly, the present acoustical properties of the church are not the same as those that obtained in the Middle Ages. Not only did the medieval cathedral have a full enclosure around the chancel and sanctuary, but the Parisian clergy of the earlier period furnished their church, especially in the area of the choir, with curtains, tapestries, tents, rugs, banners and paintings, and these materials affected the way in which sound was transferred and perceived." comments

Quote from: Benjamin Bagby here https://www.sequentia.org/writings/gothic_acoustic.htmlThe proscenium format of the modern church has become a kind of concert stage in an open space, but that space is generally not ideal for singing medieval music — it is diffuse and 'muddled'. We have traded the more intimate acoustics — and the mystery — of the hidden medieval choir for the openness and visibility expected by today's listeners.

The mystery of the medieval acoustic that Bagby alludes to, and indeed the sense of the sound of the incantation, the vibe, being in harmony with the acoustics of the space, seems to me to be well captured in this challenging recording from Sequentia, challenging partly because, me, I've edited out some of the spoken word. But IMO it was well worth the effort. And challenging because to hear it for what it is, you need a decent hi-hi, if you don't have that, in my opinion it's best not to bother.

(https://img.discogs.com/3pTjvQlgnKO-J7LHlyAopTifAVQ=/fit-in/595x519/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2085133-1263141956.jpeg.jpg)

Intimate rapt singing, a great sense of diction, wonderfully expressive instrumentation, evocatively recorded. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on May 21, 2019, 03:56:04 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 21, 2019, 01:55:31 AM
because to hear it for what it is, you need a decent hi-hi, if you don't have that, in my opinion it's best not to bother.



So, I'm beginning to understand : if I cannot "capture the magic" in the recordings of Schmelzer or Cantus Modalis etc..  perhaps it's not entirely my fault :  I must change my stereo  :( :( :(     
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on May 21, 2019, 07:38:18 AM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on May 21, 2019, 03:56:04 AM
So, I'm beginning to understand : if I cannot "capture the magic" in the recordings of Schmelzer or Cantus Modalis etc..  perhaps it's not entirely my fault :  I must change my stereo  :( :( :(   

It's not a question of capturing the magic, it's a question of capturing the sound. I have come to the conclusion -- the wisdom of experience -- that music in performance is sound. If you can't hear the sounds the artists have made then you perceive what they do through a glass darkly.  In some cases it's not a deal breaker, there's enough going on to make the experience entertaining independently of the sound -- the energy of the pulse, the tension of the counterpoint etc. And even here, there are those things, but less so than in other music. Here, I think, the art of Sequentia is to a very large extent, about sound.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Muzio on May 22, 2019, 08:17:58 AM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on May 19, 2019, 05:39:13 AM
......Particularly the voice of Agnethe Christensen strikes me !  Has she done other recordings with Sequentia ?....

According to Qobuz, she shows up here, but only on two tracks:

Hildegard von Bingen - "Celestial Hierarchy" - Sequentia
Released by deutsche harmonia mundi on May 9, 2013
10 Tracks • 01h 11m 39s

5. O cohors milicie floris (Antiphon to the Apostles) (With canticum: Benedictus Dominus Deus Israel (V fol. 160v)) (With canticum: Benedictus Dominus Deus Israel (V fol. 160v)
Benjamin Bagby, Conductor
Agnethe Christensen, Vocal
13 min. 45 sec.

10. O vos angeli (Responsory to the Angels) ((V fol. 159)) ((V fol. 159))
Benjamin Bagby, Conductor
Lena Susanne Norin, Vocal
Sabine Lutzenberger, Vocal
Agnethe Christensen, Vocal
Lydia Brotherton, Vocal
Norbert Rodenkirchen, Flute
8 min. 39 sec.
---------------------------------------------
[Edit] She is also featured on this 2-disc set:
Hildegard von Bingen: "Ave Generosa - Mystische Vokalmusic der Mittelalter Ikone"
Agnethe Christensen (et al)
Released by Classico on June 30, 2014
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on May 22, 2019, 08:49:26 AM
And here

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/12/86/0885150338612_600.jpg)

and here

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/97/61/5709644956197_600.jpg)

I've not heard either of them.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on May 22, 2019, 11:00:20 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 22, 2019, 08:49:26 AM
And here

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/12/86/0885150338612_600.jpg)

and here

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/97/61/5709644956197_600.jpg)

I've not heard either of them.

The trendy & stylish covers are very promising!  ;)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on May 22, 2019, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: Que on May 22, 2019, 11:00:20 AM
The trendy & stylish covers are very promising!  ;)

Q

LOL


I'm quite tempted by that Hildegard one and the clips online sound not bad - at least. the singing is interesting. But the cover is really stopping me from buying.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on May 23, 2019, 07:09:24 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 22, 2019, 11:39:42 AM
I'm quite tempted by that Hildegard one and the clips online sound not bad - at least. the singing is interesting. But the cover is really stopping me from buying.

I don't get it at all, at all. If you're into the music and like the samples, why should an effing cover (which you won't be looking at much, anyway) stop you from getting it?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on May 23, 2019, 07:25:28 AM
Quote from: Florestan on May 23, 2019, 07:09:24 AM
I don't get it at all, at all. If you're into the music and like the samples, why should an effing cover (which you won't be looking at much, anyway) stop you from getting it?

You're right of course. The other aspect is that I'm also angry that it's not available for me to stream on qobuz and spotify, so I'm sort of making a protest by not buying it. I'm exercising my power as a consumer to say NO!!!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on May 23, 2019, 08:09:45 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 23, 2019, 07:25:28 AM
You're right of course. The other aspect is that I'm also angry that it's not available for me to stream on qobuz and spotify, so I'm sort of making a protest by not buying it. I'm exercising my power as a consumer to say NO!!!
In this 4cd box there is the Hildegard compilation as well https://open.spotify.com/album/0qcnmCGtYCOOxh1hdl39ck

And this is the price https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Quadromania-Alba-Music-of-The-Middle-Ages-4-CD-Album/1127913054
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on May 23, 2019, 08:49:03 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 23, 2019, 07:25:28 AM
You're right of course. The other aspect is that I'm also angry that it's not available for me to stream on qobuz and spotify, so I'm sort of making a protest by not buying it. I'm exercising my power as a consumer to say NO!!!

This I can very well get.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on May 25, 2019, 06:41:11 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 19, 2019, 10:27:14 AM
Has anyone heard this one?

(https://img.discogs.com/ZW5VOur5n7nLfsAyCbCtaUFea6k=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-12186900-1530039961-2323.bmp.jpg)

This turns out to be a fabulous thing,  music that calls to mind Hildegard sometimes. If anyone wants it they can PM me and I'll upload it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on May 25, 2019, 08:39:30 AM
Fascinating work. A voice, Benjamin Bagby ( I didn't even suspect this particular side of his art ) a flute and a harp, here and there. No more.
Old terrifying text about the end of the world and the final judgement, mainly dating before 1000 AC  .
Melodic lines are considered mostly of frankish origin.
Bagby sets before us the transmutation of a spoken text in a musical event :  what you could call  'simple, naked storytelling'  suddenly becomes music....and back.  Very impressive .
I need another listening to be sure, but the sensation of approaching a masterpiece is strong.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 01, 2019, 08:40:12 AM
Andrew Kirkman's inaugural at Birmingham University here

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/documents/college-artslaw/music/andrew-kirkman-inaugural-lecture.pdf

Well worth reading. It inspired me to look up his recording of the motet Incomprehensibilia firme, and it's every bit an amazing piece of music he says it is. Kirkman recorded it on A Marriage of England of Burgundy, and Orlando recorded it on their Busnois cd, which has Robert Harre Jones and Mark Dobell, as you'd expect the two interpretations are very different from each other.  I don't think anyone else tackled it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on June 03, 2019, 05:54:05 AM
"Musik aus der Zeit der Babenberger"  is a strange but IMO winning potpourri, a list of 21 pieces divided in 5 small groups :
a) In honorem domini
b) Heiliges Land
c) Ad laudes Marie
d) Sommer und Winter
e) Minnedienst
The voices of this group ( Les Menestrels ) are well chosen to express the various feelings of the pieces (some of them with text in Old Czech)
 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 03, 2019, 08:04:02 AM
Just a quick question about sung masses.

In the mass there's a magical mystical moment when the priest holds up the wine and it turns into blood, OK. Does that happen in the Sanctus? Which bit of the mass exactly would they have been singing at that climactic moment? Or was there no singing.

I think this is called the elevation - all those baroque elevation toccatas - is that right?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 04, 2019, 07:07:53 AM
yes that's what I always figured, but then I read in that transcript of Andrew Kirkman's inaugural at Birmingham University this -- he's talking about an anonymous tudor mass cycle.

QuoteI'm going to play you part of the recording of the Mass that we made several years ago; you're going to hear
two sections of the Sanctus, the point in the polyphony that marked the focal point of the Mass in the
transubstantiation, and elevation, of the host.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on June 07, 2019, 09:08:48 AM
4cd box, 3 with the special voice of Agnethe Christensen plus another purely instrumental.  The fourth is devoted to Meister Rumelant, I will listen to this  disc later, but.......
.....the second cd offers the beautiful " Cantigas de amigo" by Martin Codax, a spanish secular song (Reis glorios) with its french sacred version(Virgen madre) and a series of Estampie enriched with Christensen's plausible vocalizations.
And the third !!  Hildegard !!  The perfect Hildegard compilation for a heretic listener like me !!  :)
Christensen's attack in Columba aspexit conveys a serenity beyond praise, then she faces without accompaniment O quam mirabilis est .... and immediately after ...a bizarre irresistible bellydance-like Ave generosa.... Yes, I know , I am a sinner .....forgive me !
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on June 07, 2019, 01:11:54 PM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on June 07, 2019, 09:08:48 AM
4cd box, 3 with the special voice of Agnethe Christensen plus another purely instrumental.  The fourth is devoted to Meister Rumelant, I will listen to this  disc later,

Good to see that you like it.  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on June 08, 2019, 09:38:43 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on May 19, 2019, 05:44:36 AM
One other it seems, which I do not know. But i know her recordings with Alba, and do recommend them:

https://www.discogs.com/artist/1352086-Agnethe-Christensen
Found this video on YouTube, Christensen & Lena Norin together :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZVmmi08Nls
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 09, 2019, 05:39:42 AM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on June 07, 2019, 09:08:48 AM
4cd box, 3 with the special voice of Agnethe Christensen plus another purely instrumental.  The fourth is devoted to Meister Rumelant, I will listen to this  disc later, but.......
.....the second cd offers the beautiful " Cantigas de amigo" by Martin Codax, a spanish secular song (Reis glorios) with its french sacred version(Virgen madre) and a series of Estampie enriched with Christensen's plausible vocalizations.
And the third !!  Hildegard !!  The perfect Hildegard compilation for a heretic listener like me !!  :)
Christensen's attack in Columba aspexit conveys a serenity beyond praise, then she faces without accompaniment O quam mirabilis est .... and immediately after ...a bizarre irresistible bellydance-like Ave generosa.... Yes, I know , I am a sinner .....forgive me !

I have that Meister Runelant CD, she certainly has a characterful voice and the way they use instruments is most attractive I think. The whole set of four CDs  is going for a song on eBay, I just ordered it so thanks for pointing it out.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Vinbrulé on June 09, 2019, 07:43:58 AM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on June 07, 2019, 09:08:48 AM
4cd box, 3 with the special voice of Agnethe Christensen plus another purely instrumental.  The fourth is devoted to Meister Rumelant, I will listen to this  disc later, but.......
.....the second cd offers the beautiful " Cantigas de amigo" by Martin Codax, a spanish secular song (Reis glorios) with its french sacred version(Virgen madre) and a series of Estampie enriched with Christensen's plausible vocalizations.
And the third !!  Hildegard !!  The perfect Hildegard compilation for a heretic listener like me !!  :)
Christensen's attack in Columba aspexit conveys a serenity beyond praise, then she faces without accompaniment O quam mirabilis est .... and immediately after ...a bizarre irresistible bellydance-like Ave generosa.... Yes, I know , I am a sinner .....forgive me !
First listening to "Die tenschen morder-Meister Rumelant,minnesinger at the Danehof court"  :  here A.Christensen is not alone, there's another singer as well, Miriam Andersen.   
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 12, 2019, 05:10:25 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81ycFGGwDoL._SS500_.jpg)

Can anyone tell me what happened to Ensemble Allégorie? I think they're really exceptional in this 2004 recording, every bit as interesting to hear as Solazzo Ensemble. Who are the singers? I especially like the man.

Like with Solazzo Ensemble, the recording catches a sense of joy in making music, an infectious joy.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on June 12, 2019, 10:10:25 AM
Quote from: Mandryka
Can anyone tell me what happened to Ensemble Allégorie? I think they're really exceptional in this 2004 recording, every bit as interesting to hear as Solazzo Ensemble. Who are the singers? I especially like the man.

Lineup:

Caroline Magalhaes, mezzo-soprano
Emmanuelle Guigues, vièles
Marie Garnier-Marzullo, cornet à bouquin & cornet muet
Francisco Orozco, ténor & luths
Jean-Paul Bazin, guiterne
Bruno Caillat, percussions

Orozco has made a few other recordings in other contexts, but they are difficult to find.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 13, 2019, 09:05:18 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on June 12, 2019, 10:10:25 AM

Bruno Caillat, percussions



He's really good as well I think -- possibly the most attractive use if drums on any early music CD I can recall. I found his CV online, he's working with some of the usual suspects.

https://www.compagnie-outre-mesure.com/compagnie-renaissance/artistes/bruno-caillat/


Music is just endless . . .

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Traverso on June 13, 2019, 11:50:47 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 13, 2019, 09:05:18 AM
He's really good as well I think -- possibly the most attractive use if drums on any early music CD I can recall. I found his CV online, he's working with some of the usual suspects.

https://www.compagnie-outre-mesure.com/compagnie-renaissance/artistes/bruno-caillat/


Music is just endless . . .

Only when it has no beginning  ;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 14, 2019, 12:30:34 PM
Quote from: Vinbrulé on June 07, 2019, 09:08:48 AM
4cd box, 3 with the special voice of Agnethe Christensen plus another purely instrumental.  The fourth is devoted to Meister Rumelant, I will listen to this  disc later, but.......
.....the second cd offers the beautiful " Cantigas de amigo" by Martin Codax, a spanish secular song (Reis glorios) with its french sacred version(Virgen madre) and a series of Estampie enriched with Christensen's plausible vocalizations.
And the third !!  Hildegard !!  The perfect Hildegard compilation for a heretic listener like me !!  :)
Christensen's attack in Columba aspexit conveys a serenity beyond praise, then she faces without accompaniment O quam mirabilis est .... and immediately after ...a bizarre irresistible bellydance-like Ave generosa.... Yes, I know , I am a sinner .....forgive me !

The Cantigas are really adorable, thanks for pointing out this set.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 14, 2019, 12:31:26 PM
Quote from: Traverso on June 13, 2019, 11:50:47 AM
Only when it has no beginning  ;)

Yes well that is the problem, or the opportunity, I've somehow bitten off 1,500 years of music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 16, 2019, 08:54:10 PM
I'm starting to get interested in Abelard's sequence Planctus David (Dolorum Solatium.)

Its  form is repetitive and the melody is simple enough to risk becoming irritating.  It is long, and  the audience of today doesn't  have a spontaneous understanding of oral Latin.

Despite these performance challenges,  I've found these versions, have I missed any?

Sequentia
Vox Cosmica
Ensemble für frühe musik augsburg
Schola Gregoriana of Cambridge
Hillier/Stubbs
Studio Der frühen musik
Theatre of Voices
Jeremy Summerly
Ensemble Ligeriana

Jeremy Summerly is the only one bold (foolish?) enough to take it solo a capella. All the others use instruments in some way or other apart from Schola Gregoriana. All use male voices only. Schola Gregoriana get it over with the most swiftly. Studio Der frühen music take an amazing 22 minutes, partly because of instrumental sections.

The range of approaches is quite wide. At one level, we have a capella - voice and instrumental interludes - voices and simultaneous instrumental accompaniment. At another level, styles range from relatively undemonstrative mainstream  western chant through to dramatic story telling and on to Balkan night club style.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 20, 2019, 09:43:06 AM
I was pleased to find this transfer of Capilla Flamenca's first recording on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/v/1djgqYGwUyg
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 21, 2019, 10:02:28 AM
An another very fine Capilla Flamenca youtube

https://www.youtube.com/v/Vx6FHFQPxYI
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JBS on June 21, 2019, 07:10:32 PM
Naxos has put out one of its big compilation boxes, this one devoted to "Early Music".
[asin]B07RC8YZP3[/asin]
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71uw7STUUpL.jpg)
I ordered it, although I am sure I have a couple of the CDs already. (I presume the Tallis is Summerley's recording, the Dowland from the series by Nigel North, etc.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on June 21, 2019, 07:30:17 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51z1tI4QoOL.jpg)

The Road to Compostela
The Rose Ensemble

John Eliot Gardiner has also recorded this music, and in fact, I might like his recording better.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 21, 2019, 10:34:17 PM
Quote from: San Antone on June 21, 2019, 07:30:17 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51z1tI4QoOL.jpg)

The Road to Compostela
The Rose Ensemble

John Eliot Gardiner has also recorded this music, and in fact, I might like his recording better.

I know a recording by Gardiner called Pilgrimage to Santiago but as far as I recall it doesn't have much if any music in common with the one in the pic by The Rose Ensemble
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on June 22, 2019, 02:23:45 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 21, 2019, 10:34:17 PM
I know a recording by Gardiner called Pilgrimage to Santiago but as far as I recall it doesn't have much if any music in common with the one in the pic by The Rose Ensemble

You're right, same concept but different music; Gardiner includes many later composers including Victoria, Clemens non Papa, Dufay, Lassus, Morales, Mouton and Palestrina. Although the Codex Calixtinus selections might have some overlap. 

The Rose Ensemble's disc uses music mainly from the 12th century, and earlier.  I suppose I should have said that the concept was similar more than the musical program, but I posted before comparing the contents.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 22, 2019, 06:40:33 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71KTM%2BnkhlL._SL1200_.jpg)

This has the wonderful Sabine singing with various male voices, which presents her in a rather different light IMO. Released yesterday so I'll refrain from making any further comment other than it's quite well recorded, as you'd expect.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on June 22, 2019, 07:45:25 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 21, 2019, 07:38:18 AM
It's not a question of capturing the magic, it's a question of capturing the sound. I have come to the conclusion -- the wisdom of experience -- that music in performance is sound. If you can't hear the sounds the artists have made then you perceive what they do through a glass darkly.  In some cases it's not a deal breaker, there's enough going on to make the experience entertaining independently of the sound -- the energy of the pulse, the tension of the counterpoint etc. And even here, there are those things, but less so than in other music. Here, I think, the art of Sequentia is to a very large extent, about sound.

I could not have said it better, no decent HIFI, best not attempt to do some serious listen.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on June 24, 2019, 09:00:37 AM
A new group for me:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91iyY8BoHiL._SS500_.jpg)

The Lamentabile Consort is described as a Swedish Male Quintet and the above recording is of Renaissance music.  This recording dates from 1994 and they don't appear to have recorded anything after that.  There are two earlier recordings; I can only assume they disbanded. Unfortunate.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on June 25, 2019, 07:59:38 AM
Quote from: JBS on June 21, 2019, 07:10:32 PM
Naxos has put out one of its big compilation boxes, this one devoted to "Early Music".
[asin]B07RC8YZP3[/asin]
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71uw7STUUpL.jpg)
I ordered it, although I am sure I have a couple of the CDs already. (I presume the Tallis is Summerley's recording, the Dowland from the series by Nigel North, etc.

There is a lot of good music and performances in there which you should really enjoy.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 06, 2019, 02:12:56 PM
(http://www.glossamusic.com/glossa/files/References/135/gcd_p31905_cover.jpg)

On this recording there's a performance of Penalosa's Sancta mater istud agas which I find very inspiring.  Generally I think it may be a recording worth exploring.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 15, 2019, 10:29:55 AM
(https://www.brilliantclassics.com/covers/5028421955292.jpg)

I think this is probably worth thinking about. Characterful singing, music which is far from routine, the central piece being a mass by Gilles Joye, never recorded before. Historically informed performances by a group of scholar musicians who seem to me to have made interesting decisions both in terms of the authenticity of the interpretation and  in terms of the pleasure to be gained from listening. For example

QuoteInstruments

For this recording we decided to use only two ranks of male voices for the Missa.
There are various elements in the original manuscript suggesting that the vocal
ensemble consisted of at least two singers for each voice: for example, the double
notes or the canons where the word "duo" is indicated in the same part.
To keep as close as possible to the original codex, we decided to use instruments in
the sections completely devoid of text, especially at the Contratenor and Tenor.
Considerable controversy surrounds the question of the use of instruments during
religious services in the middle ages. Although it went against Church law, there is
plenty of evidence to show that instruments were in fact used in combination with
the voices: we know from Egidio di Zamora that in the 13th century the trumpet
was used to arouse the congregation to worship God; and André Pirro has drawn
attention to payments made to instrumentalists during the most important religious
ceremonies.

However, there is evidence to show that it was during the 15th century that
musical instruments were used more widely in religious services. In Burgundy, during
the reigns of Philip III the Good and Charles the Bold, there were various sacred
compositions where the trumpet was specifically indicated for performing the parts
of the Contratenor, a practice that spread fast throughout central Europe. In fact
the first reference to the use of a Cornet during the Mass dates back to 1501. As
for the Trombone, there is evidence that the instrument began to appear in religious
ceremonies even earlier: for instance in Naples in 1487, or in 1495 when Francesco
Gonzaga brought his private chapel to sustain the voices during the Mass held to
celebrate victory at the battle of Fornovo. In the very years in which the Trent Codices were compiled, the Bishop of Trent had a consort of trombones that he often hired
out for events and celebrations.

As for the Chansons, we decided to use female voices accompanied by a mixed
instrumental ensemble in order to recreate the sound conjured up by the figurative
tradition of the period, for example in the "Angel Musicians" painted by Melozzo
da Forlì and Memling. By the same token, we have also avoided the concept of
a homogeneous ensemble of the sort that became common practice during the
Renaissance.


I like myself the way they sing, the noise they make.


Music is

QuoteO Rosa Bella
Mass by Gilles Joye and Chansons by Dunstable and Bedyngham
John Bedyngham c.1422 - 1460

1. O Rosa bella T.89, ff. 119v 3'54
Anonymous

2. O Rosa bella o dulz anima mia
T.90, ff. 369v 3'07
Gilles Joye c.1420 - c.1483

3. Missa Super O Rosa bella:
Kyrie T.90, ff. 421r 10'49
Alan Hert (XV sec.)

4. O Rosa bella
T.90, ff. 444v- 445r 4'00
Johannes Ockeghem?
c.1410/1425 - c.1494

5. Alius discantus Super O Rosa bella
T.90, ff. 444v- 445r 2'08
John Bedyngham

6. Gymel O Rosa bella o tu mi maria
T.90, ff. 361v-362r 2'07
Gilles Joye

Missa Super O Rosa bella
7. Gloria T.90, ff. 421v-423r 6'15

8. Credo T90, ff. 423v-426r 9'10
John Dunstable c.1390 - 1453

9. O Rosa bella
T.90, ff. 362v-363r 1'57
John Bedyngham

10. O Rosa bella, Concordancie
o rosa bella cum alius tribus...
T.89, ff. 119v-120r 1'56
Gilles Joye
Missa Super O Rosa bella

11. Sanctus T.90, ff. 426v-427r 6'27

12. Agnus Dei T.90, ff. 427v-428r 4'50
John Bedyngham

13. O Rosa bella, Concordancie o rosa
bella cum alius tribus...
T.89, ff. 119v-120r 2'12

14. Gymel O Rosa bella o tu mi maria
T.90, ff. 361v-362r 1'59
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 23, 2019, 12:18:57 AM
(https://www.earlymusicamerica.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/FritschCover-400.png)

Is Balthasar Fritsch a great composer? He certainly wrote some charming music! .

Ukrike Hofbauer is part of The Sound and the Fury, she has a lovely voice. It's the first time I've heard her sing solo and I feel quite excited by what she does, apparently she has a large discography including madrigals and frottole which I plan on exploring.

Review here, with some interesting comments on dance style made in passing.

https://www.earlymusicamerica.org/web-articles/meet-german-composer-balthasar-fritsch/
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 31, 2019, 05:30:43 AM
One of the bees in my bonnet, which I've developed largely as a result of Todd McComb's influence, is that I don't want my early music to sound like it's baroque opera avant la lettre. I mean,  I expect my singers to find a way of producing tones and harmonies which are not at all reminiscent of c17 music, a way of making chords which is not at all reminiscent of  common practice. In short, I want to debunk the whiggish idea that early music is a primitive form of later music - that's an idea which I see as an illegitimate occupation by the modern of the territories which Dufay, Josquin, Landini etc occupy.

Listening this afternoon to this extraordinary recording by Cappella Pratensis, I was struck by how well they incarne this idea.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/619VuQzqfdL._SY355_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JBS on July 31, 2019, 06:13:23 PM
This arrived yesterday
[asin]B07RC8YZP3[/asin]
For convenience here are the actual CDs (Cardboard sleeves, no liner notes)
Some performers appear several times, so I use abbreviations for them
I am just providing enough information to allow finding the individual CDs on Amazon or the Naxos website.

OC Oxford Camerata
EU Ensemble Unicorn
EL Ensemble Leones
RCV Rose Consort of Viols
DM Delitiae Musicae

1 Adorate Deum (Gregorian Chant for the Proper of the Mass)  Nova Schola Gregoriana
2 Hildegard of Bingen Heavenly Revelations OC
3 Music of the Troubadours EU
4 Neidhart [Minnesinger] EL
5 Carmina Burana EU
6 Machaut Messe de Notre Dame Songs from Le Voir Dit OC
7 Argentum et Aurum [Early Hapsburg era] EL
8  Dufay Chansons  EU
9 Ockeghem Requiem Missa Prolationum  Musica Ficta
10 Music from the  Eton Choirbook  Tonus Peregrinus
11 [De La Rue] Missa Conceptio Tua  [with Gregorian antiphons and three English carols] Schola Antiqua of Chicago
12  ALaMiRe Manuscripts  Capilla Flamenca
13 Anchieta Missa Sine Nomine  Capilla Penaflorida et al
14  Frottole  Popular Songs from Renaissance ItalyRing Around  Quartet and Consort
15  Des Prez Missa L'Homme Arme etc  OC
16  Luis de Milan/Luis de Narvaez Music for Vihuela Christopher Wilson
17 Tallis Spem in Alium Missa Salve Intemerata OC
18 Palestrina Missa Papae Marcelli Missa Aeterna Christi munera OC
19 Lassus Lagrime di San Pietro Ars Nova
20 Byrd Complete Fantasias for Harpsichord Glen Wilson
21 Gabrieli Music for Brass Vol 2  LSO Brass
22 Elizabethan Songs and Consort Music RCV
23 Sweelinck Organ Works James David Christie
24  Pavans Galliards and Almains [Lute Music Vol 3] Nigel North
25 Gesualdo Madrigals Book 1 DM
26 Campion Lute Songs S. Rickards/D. Linell
27 Monteverdi Madrigals Book 5 DM
28 Tomkins Consort Music/Keyboard Music RCV with Red Byrd et al
29 Guerra Manuscript Vol 1  17th Cent Spanish Secular Vocal Music I. Monar/M. Vilas
30 Lawes Consort Music for Viols, Lutes and Theorbos RCV with others

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 29, 2019, 01:18:52 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 22, 2019, 09:34:59 PM
Clubmedieval's concert included the complete known works of Gilles Joye (1425-1483),  who's a new name for me.  It was a concert of three halves as it were.

The first part was of motets for two or three voices which was astounding for its contrapuntal complexity, which was as disorienting as anything from Carter or Ferneyhough. I thought it was some of the most interesting music I've ever heard.

The last half was also songs and motets, and also interesting because the music was strangely static. I've never heard anything like it and I found it challenging   in a good way.

The middle half was a three voice cyclical mass presented with organ. I thought it was totally uninspired and drab, I thought I would die of boredom.

The organ had two octaves and hand bellows   first time I've seen that. I'd like to be a bellows man!

What I was completely forgetting is that a Gilles Joye recording with the mass was released about a month ago, this

(https://www.hbdirect.com/coverm/thumbnails/5028421955292.pt01.jpg)

I listened to it this morning, I remembered having a favourable impression before and that was confirmed by this more recent experience with it. Why I should react so positively to their account of the mass but so negatively to Clubmedieval's I cannot say -- maybe Ensemble Dionea are more imaginative with instruments, more expressive, maybe it's just a question of my mood.

By the way, the sound quality on that Brilliant recording leaves a lot to be desired.

Anyway Gilles Joye is clearly getting attention, let's hope we get a recording of the songs soon.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 22, 2019, 05:10:47 AM
(https://www.hbdirect.com/coverm/thumbnails/5028421955292.pt01.jpg)

And what to make of the Gilles Joyé Sanctus? I don't think I've ever heard anything like it, either in c15 music or before or after. It's like a lullaby.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on November 17, 2019, 05:26:54 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81ICCgsBmuL._SL1500_.jpg).   (https://shop.new-art.nl/content/img/new_products/1536585233.jpg)

This was released earlier this year, c15 songs in a Northern European tradition, and some recorder music, very good IMO. Recorders tuned to produce a strange quasi-modal noise, maybe too much instrumental music for me, but it's easy to cut it, singing is straight and sweet and serious, by a tenor type voice, rather fresh and agreeable. There haven't been many new minnesinger releases recently, so this is welcome.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on November 17, 2019, 06:08:13 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 17, 2019, 05:26:54 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81ICCgsBmuL._SL1500_.jpg).   (https://shop.new-art.nl/content/img/new_products/1536585233.jpg)

This was released earlier this year, c15 songs in a Northern European tradition, and some recorder music, very good IMO. Recorders tuned to produce a strange quasi-modal noise, maybe too much instrumental music for me, but it's easy to cut it, singing is straight and sweet and serious, by a tenor type voice, rather fresh and agreeable. There haven't been many new minnesinger releases recently, so this is welcome.

I don't know if others feel as I do, but I would appreciate it if you would include in your comments information about the recording, e.g. composer, performer names or something to identify the recording, so that one could simply copy and paste the info into a search engine. Otherwise you expect us to try and read the names from the small image and type them out ourselves. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on November 17, 2019, 07:05:00 AM
Yes I think you may well enjoy this one, maybe not the instrumental music, but the vocal,  here's a link to it if that helps

https://www.amazon.com/Aventure-Songs-Gruuthuse-Manuscript-1400/dp/B07HGJ461V

The ensemble are maybe called Aventure, the front of the booklet just says

AVENTURE
Totdat de wachter heeft gezongen
Songs from the Gruuthuse Manuscript
(ca. 1400) and instrumental connections
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on November 17, 2019, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 17, 2019, 07:05:00 AM
Yes I think you may well enjoy this one, maybe not the instrumental music, but the vocal,  here's a link to it if that helps

https://www.amazon.com/Aventure-Songs-Gruuthuse-Manuscript-1400/dp/B07HGJ461V

The ensemble are maybe called Aventure, the front of the booklet just says

AVENTURE
Totdat de wachter heeft gezongen
Songs from the Gruuthuse Manuscript
(ca. 1400) and instrumental connections

Thanks for the link. I am listening to it now on Spotify.  You're right, it is very nice.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on November 26, 2019, 08:37:58 AM
I got four release of them all greats, they did an incredible job so far whit:

- Gace Brulé
- Herz Prich!: Medieval German music
- Song's from the crusade
- Vocal(medieval music) Aubertin d'Airaines

The quality of the offering in league whit

ensemble Tetrakys
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on December 01, 2019, 01:39:14 AM
All I found so far are compilations featuring some work of him, yet he seems like a major actor in Ars Vetus.

He deserves a full length of all is work on an album, done top notch. What is available now of mister Petrus de Cruces.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 01, 2019, 04:56:19 AM
Sequentia recorded two songs by Petrus De Cruce here, very attractive music making IMO

(http://www.sequentia.org/images/recordings/trouveres_l.jpg)

And there's an interesting left field recording with one track by him here - you should check out this CD

(https://e-cdns-images.dzcdn.net/images/cover/f8863893c33d985654c0794e91542036/500x500.jpg)

In addition, David Monroe recorded one motet by him, also attractive. And there's a recording of a motet by the American ensemble Blue Heron.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 01, 2019, 10:15:13 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71YKyccSIeL._SX466_.jpg)

I think this may well be the most important release of early c16 music of the past decade, if not longer, and it's certainly one of the most valuable contribution that Beauty Farm has made, they've unearthed a very fine if uneven composer, a composer with a voice of his own, not a second rate Josquin imitator at all.

Listening right now to the mass "myn liefkens bruyn ooghen" - this is magnificent music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on December 01, 2019, 10:18:08 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 01, 2019, 10:15:13 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71YKyccSIeL._SX466_.jpg)

I think this may well be the most important release of Early c16 music of the past decade, if not longer, and it's certainly the most valuable contribution that Beauty Farm has made, they've unearthed a very fine if uneven composer, a composer with a voice of his own, not a second rate Josquin imitator at all.

Listening right now to the mass "myn liefkens bruyn ooghen" - this is magnificent music.

I'm definitely going to try it out, but those hideous covers....  ???

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 01, 2019, 10:21:22 PM
Quote from: Que on December 01, 2019, 10:18:08 PM
I'm definitely going to try it out, but those hideous covers....  ???

Q

At least he's kept his kit on.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JBS on December 02, 2019, 10:46:08 AM
Quote from: Que on December 01, 2019, 10:18:08 PM
I'm definitely going to try it out, but those hideous covers....  ???

Q

Quote from: Mandryka on December 01, 2019, 10:21:22 PM
At least he's kept his kit on.

That's one of the better cover images. 

Given how little Bauldeweyn has been recorded, it is a must have CD, but the bass voice as drone tended to bother me.  The same thing appears on other BF recordings, but not nearly so prominent, so perhaps some blame goes to the composers.  [To be clear, the drone effect is the ONLY problem I have with Beauty Farm's performances.]
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 03, 2019, 07:39:07 AM
Quote from: JBS on December 02, 2019, 10:46:08 AM
That's one of the better cover images. 

Given how little Bauldeweyn has been recorded, it is a must have CD, but the bass voice as drone tended to bother me.  The same thing appears on other BF recordings, but not nearly so prominent, so perhaps some blame goes to the composers.  [To be clear, the drone effect is the ONLY problem I have with Beauty Farm's performances.]

They seem pretty restrained in the bass department in the Bauldeweyn compared with the first Gombert, for example - some people see their bass  as a strength so go figure. On the whole I think they're better at balance than many other groups (eg Diabolus in Musica, whose big fat bass in concert was indecent.)

Anyway, what I want to say really is that Que MUST buy the Bauldeweyn NOW!!!!!! If he doesn't like it I will buy if off him (for 1p). Listening to the Missa Almana now, this is first class music given an inspired rendition.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on December 03, 2019, 07:45:37 AM
I heartily dislike the Beauty Farm's performances, especially for their choir balance, and intonations which irritate me no end. I make a wide detour if it comes to the music they record.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 03, 2019, 07:49:50 AM
Quote from: "Harry" on December 03, 2019, 07:45:37 AM
I heartily dislike the Beauty Farm's performances, especially for their choir balance, and intonations which irritate me no end. I make a wide detour if it comes to the music they record.

They're a bit like a barber shop quartet. With dissonance.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Traverso on December 03, 2019, 08:02:07 AM
Quote from: "Harry" on December 03, 2019, 07:45:37 AM
I heartily dislike the Beauty Farm's performances, especially for their choir balance, and intonations which irritate me no end. I make a wide detour if it comes to the music they record.

+1

So I'm not the only one
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on December 03, 2019, 08:03:42 AM
Quote from: Traverso on December 03, 2019, 08:02:07 AM
+1

So I'm not the only one

No you are not, most of my classical music friends carry the same sentiment.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 03, 2019, 08:58:28 AM
Well, whatever you feel about their sonority, there's no other way of hearing the Bauldewein and indeed the Gombert, so I for one rejoice that they have done it. And indeed I recall thinking they had interesting ideas in the Ockeghem and de la Rue too, so again I am happy to have these things.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on December 03, 2019, 09:01:40 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 03, 2019, 08:58:28 AM
Well, whatever you feel about their sonority, there's no other way of hearing the Bauldewein and indeed the Gombert, so I for one rejoice that they have done it. And indeed I recall thinking they had interesting ideas in the Ockeghem and de la Rue too, so again I am happy to have these things.


Of course you do and I understand, but despite, its not for me. I await my time :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 09, 2019, 06:05:16 AM
This looks like a potentially good resource, Lexique Musical de la Renaissance , though clearly embryonic at the moment, I got to find out about it through exploring the website of the keyboard player Jesús Noguera Guillén, who has made some contributions.

http://www.ums3323.paris-sorbonne.fr/LMR/en/indexAnglais.html

Just looking in the lexicon for dissonance I see that, for example, Titelouze wrote

QuoteComme le Peintre vse d'ombrage en son tableau pour mieux faire paroistre les rayons du jour & de la clairté, ainsi nous meslons des dissonnances parmy les consonnances, comme secondes, septiesmes & leurs repliques, pour faire encore mieux remarqur leur douceur : & ces dissonnances se font oüir suportables bien apliquées & a propos : l'exemple des bons autheurs le permet bien: mais cela s'authorise beaucoup mieux dans les nombres, ou nous voyons ces dissonnances estre douces & supportables selon qu’elles sont contenües & produittes sous raisons & proportions superparticulieres ou superpartientes, aprochantes des racines Harmoniques

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 09, 2019, 12:49:02 PM
Quote from: JBS on December 02, 2019, 10:46:08 AM
That's one of the better cover images. 

Given how little Bauldeweyn has been recorded, it is a must have CD, but the bass voice as drone tended to bother me.  The same thing appears on other BF recordings, but not nearly so prominent, so perhaps some blame goes to the composers.  [To be clear, the drone effect is the ONLY problem I have with Beauty Farm's performances.]

Where is the bass voice drone in the Bauldeweyn?

I really don't share Harry and his friends' reservations about Beauty Farm's sonority, I'm enjoying this CD tremendously (listening at the moment to the mass Tous Les Regrets.)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 09, 2019, 01:16:58 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 09, 2019, 12:49:02 PM
Where is the bass voice drone in the Bauldeweyn?

I really don't share Harry and his friends' reservations about Beauty Farm's sonority, I'm enjoying this CD tremendously (listening at the moment to the mass Tous Les Regrets.)

It will not be available in the USA until Jan. 1, 2020 - but I will certainly want to hear it.  I too do not share Harry's opinion of Beauty Farm.  While I find their choice of cover art objectionable, I think their music-making displays excellent taste.  The same is true for The Sound and the Fury.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on December 09, 2019, 02:24:34 PM
What is wrong whit Beauty Farm or The Sound and the Fury, I find them good myself I have some of there releases there nice does, one may or may not like them, but I think there quite fairly strong, love there stuff in the past so.

But  by the way anyone heard Jachet de mantoue by ensemble Jachet de Mantoue, If you dont like his lamentation of jeremiah, You will foresakenly make an enemy out of me.And don't dare attacking New York Polyphony ensemble.Have a nice day or night whatever.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on December 12, 2019, 05:11:59 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 01, 2019, 10:15:13 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71YKyccSIeL._SX466_.jpg)

I think this may well be the most important release of early c16 music of the past decade, if not longer, and it's certainly one of the most valuable contribution that Beauty Farm has made, they've unearthed a very fine if uneven composer, a composer with a voice of his own, not a second rate Josquin imitator at all.

Listening right now to the mass "myn liefkens bruyn ooghen" - this is magnificent music.

Taking you at your word I have downloaded this CD from Presto, a process which furthermore has given me the benefit of avoiding the horrid cover. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 12, 2019, 05:25:12 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 01, 2019, 10:15:13 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71YKyccSIeL._SX466_.jpg)

I think this may well be the most important release of early c16 music of the past decade, if not longer, and it's certainly one of the most valuable contribution that Beauty Farm has made, they've unearthed a very fine if uneven composer, a composer with a voice of his own, not a second rate Josquin imitator at all.

Listening right now to the mass "myn liefkens bruyn ooghen" - this is magnificent music.

I agree that it is wonderful music, and performed very well.  William Baldwin, or Bauldeweyn, is certainly a composer one wishes would be better represented with recordings.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 12, 2019, 05:31:31 PM
Quote from: San Antone on December 09, 2019, 01:16:58 PM
It will not be available in the USA until Jan. 1, 2020 - but I will certainly want to hear it.  I too do not share Harry's opinion of Beauty Farm.  While I find their choice of cover art objectionable, I think their music-making displays excellent taste.  The same is true for The Sound and the Fury.

A post must have been deleted that referred to this recording:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71zq5E5xXkL._SX522_.jpg)

Since that is the recording I said would not be available until Jan. 2020.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 13, 2019, 12:07:34 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71bawQmbt0L._SL1007_.jpg)

Love Revelry & the Dance in Mediaeval Music
Millenarium

QuoteMillenarium has recorded several discs for Ricercar devoted to the secular monadic repertoire of the Middle Ages. They are brought together here for a complete view of a time when the only religious music was Gregorian chant. The recording includes songs for troubadours and trouvères, tender and bawdy pieces from the famous Carmina Burana manuscript, and the reconstruction of the Messe des joueurs. The Danza is devoted to the little-known repertoire of mediaeval dance music and instrumental pieces that provoke an irresistible urge to dance!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on December 14, 2019, 03:41:05 AM
I wonder why all early music is toss in one singular post, and we are obligated to post there. I acknowledge early music is early music but medieval and renaissance is way different. I don't wont to dis-respected this trend, the person who started this trend, but renaissance music is not medieval music in a broad sense, I would like to start a trend on renaissance only, How about a renaissance tread that I could start if I had the permission to do so...

There is very early music such as Gregorian and medieval lore music, but renaissance has not much in common whit medieval music, all I'm trying to say is may I have the permission to start a renaissance only tread, beside this Capella Flamenca on another subject may as well be the best ensemble, I'm listening to Jacob Clement non papa, this ensemble does wonder whit renaissance composer all I heard and all they done is fabulous, take for instance there Lambert de Sayve is really quite something , the reason why I ask for a renaissance Tread is late renaissance is closer to baroque and lesser point in comment to medieval ancient lore. Can I start a renaissance Tread whiteout it being lump in early music, some people are fan of renaissance more so than medieval, to me not having a renaissance tread does not make any sense???

What do you think create a renaissance tread for ddie hard fan of this era would seem a good idea, instead of a tread (fourre tout) if you know what I mean.

To me early music start whit the fall of roman empire and end whit Ars subtilior. Can I have my little renaissance p*ssing ground tread lol.

Thank for reading and think about it. What your cue on this mater?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 14, 2019, 04:24:45 AM
I am opposed to creating different threads for Medieval; Renaissance, etc. other than threads devoted to an individual composer. 

I think that the EMC has lasted a long time as it is, and is a valuable repository for all the music of pre-Baroque periods.  Having a single thread for Early Music is functional and convenient.

My two cents.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 14, 2019, 04:41:18 AM
Quote from: Carlo Gesualdo on December 14, 2019, 03:41:05 AM
I wonder why all early music is toss in one singular post, and we are obligated to post there. I acknowledge early music is early music but medieval and renaissance is way different. I don't wont to dis-respected this trend, the person who started this trend, but renaissance music is not medieval music in a broad sense, I would like to start a trend on renaissance only, How about a renaissance tread that I could start if I had the permission to do so...

There is very early music such as Gregorian and medieval lore music, but renaissance has not much in common whit medieval music, all I'm trying to say is may I have the permission to start a renaissance only tread, beside this Capella Flamenca on another subject may as well be the best ensemble, I'm listening to Jacob Clement non papa, this ensemble does wonder whit renaissance composer all I heard and all they done is fabulous, take for instance there Lambert de Sayve is really quite something , the reason why I ask for a renaissance Tread is late renaissance is closer to baroque and lesser point in comment to medieval ancient lore. Can I start a renaissance Tread whiteout it being lump in early music, some people are fan of renaissance more so than medieval, to me not having a renaissance tread does not make any sense???

What do you think create a renaissance tread for ddie hard fan of this era would seem a good idea, instead of a tread (fourre tout) if you know what I mean.

To me early music start whit the fall of roman empire and end whit Ars subtilior. Can I have my little renaissance p*ssing ground tread lol.

Thank for reading and think about it. What your cue on this mater?

I would have a Renaissance thread, and rename this one the pre modern club, since the modernity  started around 1500.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 14, 2019, 04:46:44 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 14, 2019, 04:41:18 AM
I would have a Renaissance thread, and rename this one the pre modern club, since the modernity  started around 1500.

There is a problem placing composers squarely in a period, Dufay for example bridges the Medieval and Renaissance - and then there's the long transition from the Renaissance to the Baroque.  Using arbitrary labels to divide up a topic which is fairly straight forward I don't see as productive.   It is widely accepted that these labels are crude and have limited usefulness.

And I have no idea what you are talking about with "modernity" beginning in 1500.  Are you trying to needlessly complicate matters even more?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on December 14, 2019, 04:57:54 AM
Quote from: San Antone on December 14, 2019, 04:46:44 AM
There is a problem placing composers squarely in a period, Dufay for example bridges the Medieval and Renaissance - and then there's the long transition from the Renaissance to the Baroque.  Using arbitrary labels to divide up a topic which is fairly straight forward I don't see as productive.   It is widely accepted that these labels are crude and have limited usefulness.

And I have no idea what you are talking about with "modernity" beginning in 1500.  Are you trying to needlessly complicate matters even more?

I think Mandryka meant 1600 (and not 1500). By then Seconda pratica or Stile moderno began in Italy.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 14, 2019, 05:10:02 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on December 14, 2019, 04:57:54 AM
I think Mandryka meant 1600 (and not 1500). By then Seconda pratica or Stile moderno began in Italy.

I think most music historians date the Baroque period from 1600 - 1750, or thereabouts.

Wikipedia has these periods:

Early period
Medieval era   c. 500–1400
Renaissance era   c. 1400–1600

Common practice period
Baroque era   c. 1600–1730
Classical era   c. 1730–1830
Romantic era   c. 1830–1900

Which is how GMG has also divided up the threads. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on December 14, 2019, 05:14:37 AM
Quote from: San Antone on December 14, 2019, 05:10:02 AM
I think most music historians date the Baroque period from 1600 - 1750, or thereabouts.

Wikipedia has these periods:

Early period
Medieval era   c. 500–1400
Renaissance era   c. 1400–1600

Common practice period
Baroque era   c. 1600–1730
Classical era   c. 1730–1830
Romantic era   c. 1830–1900

Which is how GMG has also divided up the threads.

This is also how I think about it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 14, 2019, 05:45:41 AM
What happened in 1400 to make it the start of renaissance?

For me, the start of the renaissance comes with the  rejection of the idea that the universe is meaningfully ordered, the characteristic of the renaissance is the idea that the universe is ultimately contingent correlations, modelable in maths.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 14, 2019, 05:53:56 AM
Quote from: San Antone on December 14, 2019, 04:46:44 AM
Dufay for example bridges the Medieval and Renaissance

I know this is the sort of thing you hear in introductory music classes. I'm not totally sure, but my impression is that David Fallows sees Dufay as very much a Medieval composer. Maybe someone who can put their hands on the book could check -- I just have a memory . . .
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 14, 2019, 06:02:05 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 14, 2019, 05:45:41 AM
What happened in 1400 to make it the start of renaissance?

For me, the start of the renaissance comes with the  rejection of the idea that the universe is meaningfully ordered, the characteristic of the renaissance is the idea that the universe is ultimately contingent correlations, modelable in maths.

The dating of these historical periods is different for music than for literature and art, generally later.  Mainly, periods are divided according to developments in the music, i.e. with the development of ideas about tonality we have a different period than how earlier composers treated harmony.  When there was an awareness of a vertical harmonic progression as opposed to thinking of the music as linear musical parts we get the dividing lines between Medieval and Renaissance.  1400 is a convenient date stamp.

But as I said these datings are crude at best, and almost useless from the standpoint of saying anything meaningful about the seamless development from Machaut to Bach.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 14, 2019, 06:04:37 AM
Ah, you can see that all my background and orientation is in philosophy and not in music!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on December 14, 2019, 06:39:51 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 14, 2019, 06:04:37 AM
Ah, you can see that all my background and orientation is in philosophy and not in music!

In my humble opinion it doesn't make much sense to parallelise renaissance in music with renaissance in philosophy and science.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 14, 2019, 07:03:00 AM
Well you musos have asked for it by calling it renaissance music, filching a word from the history of ideas! You should have called it "post modal" or something like that!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on December 14, 2019, 12:46:57 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 14, 2019, 07:03:00 AM
Well you musos have asked for it by calling it renaissance music, filching a word from the history of ideas! You should have called it "post modal" or something like that!

Well, this is after all a music forum.

The term "post modal" may be misleading, since all music from Medieval age to atonal "age", yes indeed until our age may be called post modal.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 14, 2019, 12:52:22 PM
Is Monteverdi a Renaissance or Baroque composer?  What about Gesualdo

Soler: Baroque or Classical?  He was born within a few years of Haydn, and CPE Bach was born before both.  Within which period does CPE Bach fall?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: dissily Mordentroge on December 14, 2019, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: Carlo Gesualdo on December 14, 2019, 03:41:05 AM
I wonder why all early music is toss in one singular post, and we are obligated to post there. I acknowledge early music is early music but medieval and renaissance is way different. I don't wont to dis-respected this trend, the person who started this trend, but renaissance music is not medieval music in a broad sense, I would like to start a trend on renaissance only, How about a renaissance tread that I could start if I had the permission to do so...

There is very early music such as Gregorian and medieval lore music, but renaissance has not much in common whit medieval music, all I'm trying to say is may I have the permission to start a renaissance only tread, beside this Capella Flamenca on another subject may as well be the best ensemble, I'm listening to Jacob Clement non papa, this ensemble does wonder whit renaissance composer all I heard and all they done is fabulous, take for instance there Lambert de Sayve is really quite something , the reason why I ask for a renaissance Tread is late renaissance is closer to baroque and lesser point in comment to medieval ancient lore. Can I start a renaissance Tread whiteout it being lump in early music, some people are fan of renaissance more so than medieval, to me not having a renaissance tread does not make any sense???

What do you think create a renaissance tread for ddie hard fan of this era would seem a good idea, instead of a tread (fourre tout) if you know what I mean.

To me early music start whit the fall of roman empire and end whit Ars subtilior. Can I have my little renaissance p*ssing ground tread lol.

Thank for reading and think about it. What your cue on this mater?
Which raises a question I've had for some time. How early does early music have to be and how late is the cut-off point? ( assuming the unlikely scenario music developed simultaniously all over Europe) I'm also curious as to how far east of/in Europe such a classification can be accepted, especially given the repertoire of  groups such as Jordi Savall's. Not that smelling a rose by any other name etc.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on December 15, 2019, 02:43:09 AM
The Early Music Club was created for various reasons already mentioned.

There used to be a Medieval thread, which attracted very little activity .
There was also a Renaissance thread with more activity. But many are interested in music from both periods and a distinction is sometimes difficult to make. As a result distinction between the threads became blurred and the decision was made to merge the various threads to this general Early Music thread. And the concept has worked wonderfully well, offering a home for short discussions on various composers or on the performing practices.

I am actually not that keen on the shortlived one-off topics that attract not more than a handful of responses and then dissappear. But that's me.

Q

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 15, 2019, 05:09:55 AM
Quote from: San Antone on December 12, 2019, 05:31:31 PM
A post must have been deleted that referred to this recording:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71zq5E5xXkL._SX522_.jpg)

Since that is the recording I said would not be available until Jan. 2020.

I'll be interested to hear what people think at the level of the sound of the recording, the sonority of the voices and the engineering of the recording. Initial impressions are that it's a bit of a challenge but nothing follows.  I kind of can't get past the sound to think about other things.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 15, 2019, 05:11:45 AM
Quote from: Que on December 15, 2019, 02:43:09 AM
The Early Music Club was created for various reasons already mentioned.

There used to be a Medieval thread, which attracted very little activity .
There was also a Renaissance thread with more activity. But many are interested in music from both periods and a distinction is sometimes difficult to make. As a result distinction between the threads became blurred and the decision was made to merge the various threads to this general Early Music thread. And the concept has worked wonderfully well, offering a home for short discussions on various composers or on the performing practices.

I am actually not that keen on the shortlived one-off topics that attract not more than a handful of responses and then dissappear. But that's me.

Q

Thanks, Que.  I was not aware of the history of this thread, but I agree with the decision you cite 100%.

8)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: HIPster on December 15, 2019, 06:57:57 AM
Quote from: Que on December 15, 2019, 02:43:09 AM
The Early Music Club was created for various reasons already mentioned.

There used to be a Medieval thread, which attracted very little activity .
There was also a Renaissance thread with more activity. But many are interested in music from both periods and a distinction is sometimes difficult to make. As a result distinction between the threads became blurred and the decision was made to merge the various threads to this general Early Music thread. And the concept has worked wonderfully well, offering a home for short discussions on various composers or on the performing practices.

I am actually not that keen on the shortlived one-off topics that attract not more than a handful of responses and then dissappear. But that's me.

Q
Quote from: San Antone on December 15, 2019, 05:11:45 AM
Thanks, Que.  I was not aware of the history of this thread, but I agree with the decision you cite 100%.

8)

+1   ;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on December 15, 2019, 12:58:55 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 15, 2019, 05:09:55 AM
I'll be interested to hear what people think at the level of the sound of the recording, the sonority of the voices and the engineering of the recording. Initial impressions are that it's a bit of a challenge but nothing follows.  I kind of can't get past the sound to think about other things.

I have the impression (on my usual system) that CD I is recorded (or produced) at a bit higher dynamic level than CD II, but this can easily be corrected with the volume control. The recordings seem to have taken place in rather "cold" acoustic surroundings, but the voices have a satisfying presence and outward projection. My objection would rather be the character of the voices, which causes them to blend less well IMO. Concerning this aspect I much prefer the Clerks group.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on December 16, 2019, 12:59:11 PM
I really like Lambert de Sayve ,as far as I know there are two release of this composer, both I adore.

De Sayve: Messe du sacre de l'empereur Matthias by coeur de chambre de Namur, very good, But there better Capella Flamenca
Lambert de Sayve sacred music.

These two album are gems for later fan of Franco-Flemish school of polyphony, thee last breath of renaissance, that is not so well know to this day few composers I.e Géry de Ghersem and perhaps some names I don't recalled.

But these fifth era of Flemish bordering baroque are so captivating, sophisticated and darn fascinating.

I would recommend to anyone interrest in Franco-Flemish these record, the Capella flamenca is incredible beauty sacred music, lovely voice, tasty instrumental if we can say ornememts. Music never sound so sexy to my here and classy, real fine composer two incredible release, trust me whit a blindfold on you got to hear this to believe it.

Musicologist should investigated more last era of Franco-Flemish godz because there music is candy to my ears.What do you think either way or the classical composer(Lambert de Sayve) is a fabulous composers or these recording are the cherry on a sundae.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on December 16, 2019, 06:15:00 PM
I presume this is the recording by the Capilla Flamenca you are referring to:

[asin]B000X1D2QU[/asin]

Thanks for the recommendation.  :)
The fact that he was a pupil of Philippe de Monte, is almost self recommending!

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 17, 2019, 05:48:38 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on December 15, 2019, 12:58:55 PM
I have the impression (on my usual system) that CD I is recorded (or produced) at a bit higher dynamic level than CD II, but this can easily be corrected with the volume control. The recordings seem to have taken place in rather "cold" acoustic surroundings, but the voices have a satisfying presence and outward projection. My objection would rather be the character of the voices, which causes them to blend less well IMO. Concerning this aspect I much prefer the Clerks group.

There's something very intense and colourful about the sound, it's an oil painting not a watercolour. It makes me uncomfortable, though I'm sure I'll come round in time, I usually do.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on December 17, 2019, 02:23:36 PM
I love what been done whit Goudimel on Erato, I have the superb vinyl release in 1970, It's very very great, the voice caress my ears like velvet, Claude Goudimel is overlook as drab too religious and boring by noobs but is polyphony is psalms are remarkable,very enjoyable.

If you collected vinyl that is on of my favorite Lp, yeah I know it's preachy but so what, the music so delightful, I consider this album a gem.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on December 19, 2019, 09:17:40 AM
Newbies to renaissance, wanna take the elevator and listen to state of the art late renaissance of Franco-Flemish, hmm I though so hey, so you need to explore Supraphon label what a label of choice and taste that is for renaissance recordings, they never displease me in the past I consider them among the best label.

They made me discover Carolus Luython and so much more I feel thankful to the Czechs, this label of quality, what do you think EMC ?

World wide posters? is Supraphon in you're eyes a darn good label of of the best of best.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on December 19, 2019, 02:00:49 PM
If I understand what I heard from musicologist themselves  Giosseffo Zarlino had follower's.

Most composer after Zarlino though heck Zarlino modulation was too complicated, most except...

Carlo Gesualdo, see his pallet of colors the Chromatic scale, first time I heard Zarlino and after ward Gesualdo I drawn parallels in there sounds spectrum both were bold audacious may I say daring adventurous.

I don't know why but these two composer seem share one or more character there were innovator none are almost none try to emulated...

I would like to do another I.e
The fabulous progressive-rock Band called King Crimson have you notice, you don't here a lot of influence or cover band of them because, they were so skilled complex and daring that people could not emulated them in the end.

Thus said and meaning nothing in Late renaissance sound like these two, the music on both side is pretty much kaviar of thee best!

I suspect there is a correlation between these two and not just one , more than one.

First time I heard Zarlino I was like hmm jeez this sound kinda familiar ground to me a Gesualdo fanboy, the music was easy to love and to get into just like gesualdo was for me.

It lead me to the following composers afterward like De Wert and Sigismondo d'India(my eyes at this point were popping out I was flabbergeist).

I try to connect the dots in space and time, between sonic universe of z to y to x etc, to figure out whom use more audacity vivacity colors and so on.

So I ask ardent musicologist do you see\hear what I see or hear hmm.

These guys, these mention composer brought the lights of renaissance one step beyond a giant leaps for classical music.

So in the end my question during there era did any composer of his time try to emulated him  same question for Zarlino?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on December 23, 2019, 10:27:09 AM
(Cross post from the WAYLT thread)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91aww9TI4YL._SS500_.jpg)

One thing that strikes me is that Renaissance music never seems to go beyond Andante in terms of tempo, with the most common being Adagio, nay, actually Largo. Also, long and very long note values. And all that, no matter if the subject is Orlando's chivalric exploits or Kyrie eleison. How come, I wonder?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 23, 2019, 11:20:01 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/814erJ4b8eL._SS500_.jpg)

Wonderful recording of Spanish vihuela music from c. 1500s. I especially like the music of Luys de Narvaez.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on December 23, 2019, 11:40:39 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71NLJMkHPYL._SL1012_.jpg)

I am a fan of Gerard Zuchetto's recordings of the music of the troubadours.  For as long as I can remember they have not been available on Spotify, but now a different series of the recordings are available. 

Wonderful music, very well done, IMO.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 23, 2019, 12:17:19 PM
Quote from: Florestan on December 23, 2019, 10:27:09 AM
(Cross post from the WAYLT thread)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91aww9TI4YL._SS500_.jpg)

One thing that strikes me is that Renaissance music never seems to go beyond Andante in terms of tempo, with the most common being Adagio, nay, actually Largo. Also, long and very long note values. And all that, no matter if the subject is Orlando's chivalric exploits or Kyrie eleison. How come, I wonder?

This is a difficult question to answer without waffle. Tactus blah waffle . . . heart beat . . . waffle waffle  . . .

There's also a unity of tempo -- the music rarely changes tempo for a few bars -- I have no idea why.

Once you get to Monteverdi things are different.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Florestan on December 23, 2019, 02:50:34 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 23, 2019, 12:17:19 PM
This is a difficult question to answer without waffle. Tactus blah waffle . . . heart beat . . . waffle waffle  . . .

My question was serious.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 28, 2019, 07:41:46 PM
(https://cdns-images.dzcdn.net/images/cover/2201a48d6e8dd1d46f0f7cb051ed3531/500x500.jpg)

Repetitive, simple and long.  Reverdie somehow turn what could easily be stupefyingly dull music into something very entertaining, with colourful instruments and gutsy singing, performing them with a slightly modal feeling.


(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0236/4225/products/COR16052_1024x1024.jpeg?v=1369081706)

Hilliard take four of them a capella and slowly, the result is rapt and brings the music closer to chant than to troubadour song. Solemn, worthy, humourless, but an interesting experiment, mercifully they choose short ones,  I'm not sure how successful it is, but it is interesting. Certainly the way they take Oi mi lasso - as a dramatic duet - is promising.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 29, 2019, 12:40:24 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81JWzRDUD8L._SL1440_.jpg)


Less dancing, weightier sound than La Reverdie, and incisively phrased. This makes for some really memorable moments from a sonic point of view, especially for me when they have two or more men's voices singing in quasi-homophonic music together - those tracks alone make the recording valuable for me.  Some pieces are taken by Patrizia Bovi singing alone, her vocality seems to me to be derived from later music, she projects as if she's singing de Rore or Monteverdi even. Like her or no, what she does, or rather how she does or, seems to me to be a bit out of place on the recording - comme un cheveux sur la soupe as the say in France. Micrologus tackle only shorter pieces. There are a handful of instrumental pieces, which don't interest me so I skipped them.

(Can anyone let me have the review in Fanfare? Resolution for 2020: subscribe to Fanfare, if I can find out how to do it.)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 29, 2019, 06:22:14 AM
(http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/12/92/42/38/6port132.jpg)

This recording includes lauds from the c14th century and later. It's very much of the style of his Ciconia and Febus Avant, a style which I like, and some of the musicians are in common. Indeed he even includes a pieces by Francesco Landini and Jacopo de Bologna.  To some extent he's eliminated the popular earthy element from the performance, everything is so polished and beautiful sounding. Anyway, this is a lovely recording of pleasant music, and it gives some insight into the development of the genre. I find myself particularly appreciating Katelijne Van Laethem.

The English translation of the booklet is problematic -- I ended up having to read the French.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 02, 2020, 09:28:50 AM
So.... Europadisc is having an ARCANA sale: https://www.europadisc.co.uk/offer/2556/Arcana.htm

Some interesting titles with 40-50% off.
I was wondering if I could I have some feedback on these box sets?  :)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81-jQlMWf1L._SS500_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81ZjCOqC25L._SS500_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81KiDSZ96lL._SS500_.jpg)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on January 02, 2020, 09:43:01 AM
Quote from: Que on January 02, 2020, 09:28:50 AM
So.... Europadisc is having an ARCANA sale: https://www.europadisc.co.uk/offer/2556/Arcana.htm

Some interesting titles with 40-50% off.
I was wondering if I could I have some feedback on these box sets?  :)


Even at full price these three sets are mandatory for someone interested in Italian Trecento and Ars Subtilior.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 02, 2020, 10:21:20 AM
Quote from: Que on January 02, 2020, 09:28:50 AM
So.... Europadisc is having an ARCANA sale: https://www.europadisc.co.uk/offer/2556/Arcana.htm

Some interesting titles with 40-50% off.
I was wondering if I could I have some feedback on these box sets?  :)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81-jQlMWf1L._SS500_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81ZjCOqC25L._SS500_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81KiDSZ96lL._SS500_.jpg)

Q

All on spotify.

By the way, I just noticed that Mala Punica have made a recording of music by James Weeks with Exaudi Ensemble

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81NiIjSL1UL._SS500_.jpg)


(It's a thing by James Weeks called Mala Punica!)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Iota on January 02, 2020, 10:28:55 AM
Quote from: Que on January 02, 2020, 09:28:50 AM
So.... Europadisc is having an ARCANA sale: https://www.europadisc.co.uk/offer/2556/Arcana.htm

Some interesting titles with 40-50% off.
I was wondering if I could I have some feedback on these box sets?  :)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81ZjCOqC25L._SS500_.jpg)

I feel a complete neophyte in such matters compared with many on this board, but for the little it's worth I find this set bewitching.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 02, 2020, 12:04:23 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on January 02, 2020, 09:43:01 AM
Even at full price these three sets are mandatory for someone interested in Italian Trecento and Ars Subtilior.

+1

I especially like the Figures of Harmony box - but they are all good. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 02, 2020, 12:43:25 PM
Quote from: Que on January 02, 2020, 09:28:50 AM
So.... Europadisc is having an ARCANA sale: https://www.europadisc.co.uk/offer/2556/Arcana.htm

Some interesting titles with 40-50% off.
I was wondering if I could I have some feedback on these box sets?  :)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81-jQlMWf1L._SS500_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81ZjCOqC25L._SS500_.jpg)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81KiDSZ96lL._SS500_.jpg)

Q



Here's a shot at what's going on, probably not totally fair. Let me know if you think I'm right when you've heard them.

La Reverdie can and do sing flexibly and sensually but they often don't -- they favour pretty strict foot tapping rhythms and short phrases. They're also not averse to singing quite simple music.

Mala Punica are rather different, what they do is luscious and fluid, and the music is subtle and nuanced. Ferrara Ensemble are maybe midway, I'm not sure -- maybe they're more inclined to the Mala Punica side of the spectrum.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JBS on January 02, 2020, 07:13:23 PM
Quote from: Que on January 02, 2020, 09:28:50 AM
So.... Europadisc is having an ARCANA sale: https://www.europadisc.co.uk/offer/2556/Arcana.htm

Some interesting titles with 40-50% off.
I was wondering if I could I have some feedback on these box sets?  :)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81-jQlMWf1L._SS500_.jpg)

Q

I found the dominance of female voices in the Revardie set to be wearing on the ears.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on January 03, 2020, 05:36:01 PM
Dear folks how about my new purchased.

Ockeghem Missa double album on Beaty Farm

How about the new Brabant ensemble album 2019, Johannes Hellinck & Johannes Lupi, too great John of polyphony of Franco-Flemish  tradition It's astonishing folks wow.

Than my last purchased will be Jeezy I dunno perhaps some Lucio Fulci Flick what about it folks. House by the cemetery!
Never seen a fulci film.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on January 03, 2020, 09:29:50 PM
Dominique Phinot came to mind, since he is has  complex, not simple, really darn sophisticated, he remind strangely of Nicolas Gombert, I tell you same ink perhaps Phinot done greater works we don't know is total output, than there is Pierre Moulu very startling on Brabant ensemble and hardly explore so far by ensemble, I challenge top-notch ensemble to do some pierre moulu.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 03, 2020, 11:54:21 PM
Premont, Mandryka, San Antone, JBS and Harry - thank you all for the feedback on the ARCANA sets!  :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on January 04, 2020, 12:07:45 AM
Of course because of there famous Gombert Motets volume 1-2 4 CD of Motets, Like them a lots, by the way this Willaert album is awesome Cenquencento are rad , what can I say, I'm a big fan of Willaert, that for sure, and try please mister Jean Guyot whit same ensemble.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 04, 2020, 12:08:19 AM
Quote from: Carlo Gesualdo on January 03, 2020, 05:36:01 PM
Dear folks how about my new purchased.

Ockeghem Missa double album on Beaty Farm

Are a (generally) a fan of Beauy Farm?
I have the Gombert motets vol. 1 and although I like, I'm not a 100% convinced....

QuoteHow about the new Brabant ensemble album 2019, Johannes Hellinck & Johannes Lupi, too great John of polyphony of Franco-Flemish  tradition It's astonishing folks wow.

If you like Dutch/Flemish polyphony like Hellinck en Lupi, I would strongly recommend this amazing 12CD set ( works of both composers are included):

[asin]B00YJKUZ1Q[/asin]
At some European Amazons there are still a few copies available on offer for very low prices!

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 04, 2020, 12:25:58 AM
Quote from: Carlo Gesualdo on January 04, 2020, 12:07:45 AM
Of course because of there famous Gombert Motets volume 1-2 4 CD of Motets, Like them a lots, by the way this Willaert album is awesome Cenquencento are rad , what can I say, I'm a big fan of Willaert, that for sure, and try please mister Jean Guyot whit same ensemble.

Have the Guyot recording as well....  :) Nice recording and nice music, though Guyot was not the most distinctive composer.
My Cinquecento favourites sofar are their De monte, Willaert, Vaet, the music for the court of Maximilian and the Habsburg court songs. Another minor composer they did, and I liked (better than Guyot) was Jacobus Regnart.

Their recent Lassus I found slightly dissapointing - too low on energy and expression IMO.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 04, 2020, 01:51:03 AM
Quote from: Carlo Gesualdo on January 03, 2020, 09:29:50 PM
Dominique Phinot came to mind, since he is has  complex, not simple, really darn sophisticated, he remind strangely of Nicolas Gombert, I tell you same ink perhaps Phinot done greater works we don't know is total output,

Any recommendation? :)

Quotethan there is Pierre Moulu very startling on Brabant ensemble and hardly explore so far by ensemble, I challenge top-notch ensemble to do some pierre moulu.

[asin]B003C1SQ1O[/asin]

I have considered that recording....
Although the music is probably transposed upwards to accommodate the female singers - something I'm not keen on but seems common practice amongst British ensembles... But it's just not a good idea.... ::)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on January 11, 2020, 11:03:38 AM
What a mysterious classical composer, I would situated is music in between Ars subtilior- and early renaissance.

I have the Ricercare album which is sublime, and  couple of track on a vinyl.

I would say he an interesting figure of Franco-Flemish.

At time he wwould remind me of ccomposer such has Solage and I dunno why but Binchois.

He was an eye opener this last year 2019.Are there more album  of Lymburgia??

Perhaps Paolo de Firenze also remind me of him too.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 12, 2020, 01:26:44 AM
The Lantins, also recorded by Baptiste Romain, who's clearly doing stalwart work to revive early c14 music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 12, 2020, 02:18:48 AM
Quote from: Que on January 03, 2020, 11:54:21 PM
Premont, Mandryka, San Antone, JBS and Harry - thank you all for the feedback on the ARCANA sets!  :)

Q

Well, Spotify is a perfect way to audition recordings. :)

The set by La Reverdie and the Ferrara Ensemble go on the shopping list.
Not the set by Mala Punica however - the music has been transposed upwards too much.
I found the comment (via PM) by Harry spot on in this respect.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on January 12, 2020, 04:43:31 AM
Indeed Batiste Romain is doing is best to revive  Johannes de Lymburgia.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on January 12, 2020, 05:05:44 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on January 11, 2020, 11:03:38 AM
What a mysterious classical composer, I would situated is music in between Ars subtilior- and early renaissance.

I have the Ricercare album which is sublime, and  couple of track on a vinyl.

I would say he an interesting figure of Franco-Flemish.

At time he wwould remind me of ccomposer such has Solage and I dunno why but Binchois.

He was an eye opener this last year 2019. Are there more album  of Lymburgia??

Perhaps Paolo de Firenze also remind me of him too.

As far as I can tell, the Romain is the only album around dedicated to this composer...

But thanks for pointing it out, I wishlisted it.  :)

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 12, 2020, 06:42:47 AM
Johannes de Lymburgia whose real name is thought to have been Johannis Vinandi was Franco-flemish composer, active in Italy during the first part of the 15th century, ca. 1420-1440.  51 works are attributed to him, and that Baptiste Romain recording incudes 15 of them. 

QuoteOnly one documentary reference to him is known: on 18 November 1431 in the palace of Bishop Pietro Emiliani of Vicenza 'presbitero Johanne cantore de Limburgia q. Johannis Vinandi, beneficiato ecclesie vincentine' was among the witnesses to the will of another of Emiliani's familiars. He may have been associated with Emiliani's provision of the previous month for training young singers (Gallo and Mantese). 

"Most pieces are in three parts, with a songlike texted upper voice and untexted equal-range tenor and contratenor, usually in tempus perfectum. The upper parts are often florid and ornamented; chant is sometimes paraphrased in the discant or presented in the tenor. Discant and tenor are written out in his fauxbourdon works." (from the Grove entry)

Works

Mass cycle, pairs and movements

Ky, Gl, Cr, San, Ag, 3, 4vv (Sanctus tropes 'Sanctus admirabilis splendor', 'Sanctus mundi fabricator et rector'), nos. 127–31

Gloria, Credo, 3vv, nos.94–5

Gloria, Credo, 3vv, nos.32–3

Kyrie 'Qui de stirpe regia', 3vv, no.101

Kyrie, 3vv (on Gregorian Kyrie IX), no.160

Gloria 'Spiritus et alme', 3vv, no.161

Credo, 3vv, no.126

Salve sancta parens, 3vv (introit), no.158

Magnificat settings

Magnificat, 4vv (8th tone), no.163

Magnificat, 3vv (1st tone), no.318

Magnificat de 2° tono, 3vv (fauxbourdon), no.319

Magnificat de 6° tono, 2vv, no.320

Magnificat, 3vv (8th tone), no.321

Hymns

Ad cenam agni providi, 3vv (Easter season; with fauxbourdon version), no.297

Criste redemptor omnium, 3vv (Christmas), no.294

Magne dies leticie, 3vv (St Peter; with fauxbourdon version), no.282

Virginis proles opifexque matris, 3vv (Nativity of virgins; fauxbourdon), no.314

Motets

Tu nephanda prodigi/Si inimicus meus/Emitat celum fulgura, 4vv, no.171

Laude

Imnizabo regi meo, 3vv (17 stanzas), no.198

Recordare, frater pie, 3vv (13 stanzas), no.166

Salve, salus mea, 3vv (12 stanzas), no.170

Salve, virgo regia, 3vv (5 stanzas), no.266

Verbum caro factum est, 3vv (9 stanzas), no.283

Other works

Ave, mater nostri redemptoris, 3vv, I-TRmp 92 (to BVM; edn in DTÖ, xiv–xv, Jg.vii (1900), 213), no.265

Congruit mortalibus plurima, 3vv (in honour of Giovanni Contarini), no.187

Descendi in ortum meum, 3vv (Song of Songs), no.183

Gaude felix Padua, 3vv (to St Anthony of Padua; not ed. in Etheridge), no.288

In hac die celebri, 3vv (to St George), no.189

Martires Dei incliti, 3vv (to SS Leonzio and Carpoforo; edn. in Gallo and Mantese), no.186

O Baptista mirabilis, 3vv (to St John Baptist; not ed. in Etheridge), no.286

O Maria maris stella, 3vv (to BVM), no.284

Ostendit mihi angelus, 3vv (for Easter), no.167

Puer natus in Bethleem, 4vv (for Christmas), no.205

Pulchra es, amica mea, 3vv (Song of Songs), no.177

Recordare, virgo mater, 3vv (to BVM), no.270

Regina celi, 3vv (to BVM), no.199

Surexit Cristus hodie, 3vv (for Easter), no.175

Surge, propera amica mea, 4vv (Song of Songs), no.204

Tota pulchra es, 4vv (Song of Songs), no.197

Veni, dilecte my, 3vv (Song of Songs; attrib. Du Fay in I-AO, TRmp 87, Johannes in Bc Q15; probably by Johannes; edn in CMM, i/1 (1947), 29), no.279

Anonymous works attributed by modern scholars

Gaude flore virginali, 3vv, no.285

Hec dies quam fecit Dominus, 3vv, no.190

Salve vere gracialis, 3vv, no.188

Magnificat, 3vv, no.322

Magnificat, 3vv, no.323

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 12, 2020, 06:50:33 AM
Speaking of Baptiste Romain, I've enjoyed this recording since it came out in 2018.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71hzVVXGYOL._SS500_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 18, 2020, 09:22:42 AM
Quote from: San Antone on December 14, 2019, 06:02:05 AM
  When there was an awareness of a vertical harmonic progression as opposed to thinking of the music as linear musical parts

This discussion popped into my mind again just now reading about Machaut reception history, about how people used to think that the vertical harmonies in the mass were too horrible to be taken seriously as music, and how they created performance editions to deal with that. And then Andrew Parrott came along . . . .
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: vers la flamme on January 18, 2020, 07:08:12 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 18, 2020, 09:22:42 AM
This discussion popped into my mind again just now reading about Machaut reception history, about how people used to think that the vertical harmonies in the mass were too horrible to be taken seriously as music, and how they created performance editions to deal with that. And then Andrew Parrott came along . . . .

What changed in the world of Machaut interpretation with Parrot? Do you think his recording of, say, the Notre Dame Mass, still holds up?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 18, 2020, 09:26:57 PM
Quote from: vers la flamme on January 18, 2020, 07:08:12 PM
What changed in the world of Machaut interpretation with Parrot? Do you think his recording of, say, the Notre Dame Mass, still holds up?

From a performance point of view, Parrott was one of the first to experiment with an assertive rather than a meek  a capella singing style from men only, one of the first to use a small ensemble of singers, one of the first focus on mid and lower registers, and one of the first to relish the harmonies in the score rather than write them out. He also decided to present the music Machaut wrote in the context of a whole mass, with chanted stuff.

I can't say whether his ideas still hold up, I'm just not in touch with current research. Obviously I can't say whether anyone will like his recording. But I can say that it's a landmark experiment in the music's reception history.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 19, 2020, 12:25:13 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on January 18, 2020, 07:08:12 PM
What changed in the world of Machaut interpretation with Parrot? Do you think his recording of, say, the Notre Dame Mass, still holds up?

Parrott's recording of the Messe is among the best, IMO, and still holds up.  There have been others in his wake, Mary Berry and Ensemble Gilles Binchois (Dominique Vellard), e.g., that use a similar approach which are also very good.

His male vocal group is smaller, his conservative treatment of accidentals (musica ficta) and pitch (low) are correct, IMO, and he places the polyphonic sections of the Mass within the proper liturgical setting, with all the chants of the Proper.  And above all he does not use any instruments.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: vers la flamme on January 19, 2020, 04:50:06 AM
Good stuff, thanks, boys. I'll be checking it out in short order. After posting that last night I went and listened to some of Parrott's Monteverdi Vespers. Very good stuff. I think I'll have to get on that one too. Is Parrott a worthy interpreter of Monteverdi, in your eyes, or is he too backward-looking to pull off this forward-thinking music?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Traverso on January 19, 2020, 05:18:37 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on January 19, 2020, 04:50:06 AM
Good stuff, thanks, boys. I'll be checking it out in short order. After posting that last night I went and listened to some of Parrott's Monteverdi Vespers. Very good stuff. I think I'll have to get on that one too. Is Parrott a worthy interpreter of Monteverdi, in your eyes, or is he too backward-looking to pull off this forward-thinking music?

Parrott is nothing less than great in Monteverdi,The Vesper, Selva morale e spirituale  and not to forget his excellent Orfeo
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 19, 2020, 05:57:46 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on January 19, 2020, 04:50:06 AM
Good stuff, thanks, boys. I'll be checking it out in short order. After posting that last night I went and listened to some of Parrott's Monteverdi Vespers. Very good stuff. I think I'll have to get on that one too. Is Parrott a worthy interpreter of Monteverdi, in your eyes, or is he too backward-looking to pull off this forward-thinking music?

Andrew Parrott wrote a game-changing paper concerning the pitch level of Monteverdi Vespers, and his subsequent recording is mandatory, IMO, for anyone interested in this music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 19, 2020, 07:08:12 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on January 19, 2020, 04:50:06 AM
Good stuff, thanks, boys. I'll be checking it out in short order.

It's on YouTube, so you can see what you make of the interpretation yourself before making an investment. This is a piece of music which has been received a lot of different approaches on record.

https://youtube.com/v/RDovcUQ8Kgk

I'm afraid I haven't heard his Monteverdi.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on January 19, 2020, 07:37:10 AM
I have the Andrew Parrot of Gesualdo, it's average but not bad.

Dear ZamyraByrd how about madrigals, I'm listening Fruhe Italiensche Madrigale by capella antiqua Munchen directed by Konrad Ruhland, we have big name of Franco-Flemish here De Rore, Arcadelt ,verdelot, 2lp Box-set , have you heard this Mandryka, anyone?

Sounds goods but I don't know, it did not had the impact I wish on me perhaps, I'm too harsh in my judgement, did not heard it enough already.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 19, 2020, 12:57:36 PM
I've heard his Gesualdo, but I've never thought about it apart from this: it's good to break up the motets with some chanting, an unbroken sequence of responsoria motets is too rich for me.

In the music Machaut composed for the mass, the interesting thing for me is that Parrott gets the singers to sing straight, sing fast, and sing without much inflection. There are consequences for the "atmosphere" he creates, and presumably the performance is a reflection of ideas he has about what a medieval mass "felt like." Or maybe he's identifying the music with the score.

This is an aspect of the performance which may or may not stand up to scrutiny in the light of what's known today about medieval singing. I don't know. Some people followed him, but many more recent interpretations - Vellard, Vienna Vocal Consort, Capella Tetsuro Hanai, Emmanuel Bonnardot,  Lucien Kandell, Ensemble Organum, Graindelavoix - have not followed him in this. They're more soulful.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on January 19, 2020, 01:42:27 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 19, 2020, 12:57:36 PM
I've heard his Gesualdo, but I've never thought about it apart from this: it's good to break up the motets with some chanting, an unbroken sequence of responsoria motets is too rich for me.

In the music Machaut composed for the mass, the interesting thing for me is that Parrott gets the singers to sing straight, sing fast, and sing without much inflection. There are consequences for the "atmosphere" he creates, and presumably the performance is a reflection of ideas he has about what a medieval mass "felt like." Or maybe he's identifying the music with the score.

This is an aspect of the performance which may or may not stand up to scrutiny in the light of what's known today about medieval singing. I don't know. Some people followed him, but many more recent interpretations - Vellard, Vienna Vocal Consort, Capella Tetsuro Hanai, Lucien Kandell, Ensemble Organum, Graindelavoix - have not followed him in this. They're more soulful.

First, I don't share your characterization of the singing of Parrott's group. 

Next, we don't know more today about Medieval singing than we did when Andrew Parrott made his recording of the Machaut Messe.  The professional scholarship post-Parrott has focused mostly on the context for the mass's composition, treatment of accidentals and size of the vocal ensemble.  However, some musicians such as Manuel Peres and Bjorn Schmelzer have concocted some imaginative theories for their somewhat radical performance of Machaut and other examples of Medieval music.  As for melismatic ornamentation, there is little to base their performance practices on other than speculation.

That said, I do find the recordings by Peres and Schmelzer entertaining, even though the arguments they deploy for their approach, as beautiful as it may sound, remain unconvincing.  Kandel is less interesting, and the other groups you mention I probably have heard but don't remember anything about their recordings.  I would not place Dominique Vellard along with Peres and Schmelzer in this regard. His recording of the Messe is closer to Parrott's than either Peres or Schmelzer.


We've debated these issues to death in the past. 

8)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 02, 2020, 12:38:35 AM
Following up on our discussion on the WAYLT thread:

[asin]B07XLQ18XS[/asin]

Interesting comparative review by Todd McComb from Medieval.org:
http://www.medieval.org/music/early/cdc/frb9373.html

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on February 02, 2020, 12:48:13 AM
Oh, and anyone interested in Franco-Flemish polyphony should have a look at this shortlist:
http://www.medieval.org/music/early/polyphony.html

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on February 03, 2020, 07:13:10 PM
Dear folks of EMC good news for you guys, Marcel Pérès masterpiece of masterpiece have been finally re-issue for our divine pleasure ''Le Graduel d'Aliénor de Bretagne''.

WOW what a news I did not knew this it happen in October 2019, i really love this recording, very sunny & soulful very good, what else can I say it's Marcel best album ever. And I heard them all so far, who want to debated if he done better so far, this is tremendously triumphant, this is it, on a desert Island, imagine I'm alone or you are in a scenario like the Brilliant movie LOST whit Tom Hanks, you want this album, by all god mean, this is so ethereal & 
outstanding,you won't feel alone even if alone...

Perfect album of ancient lore  of of the best, I stamp my approval, If you love ancient music , you will love this just as much as I do, I stamped this other worldly moving, this album will have many spin in you're CD player I swear to god, heck do you want me to lie, a must, true love at first sight, this album gorgeous, splendid music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on February 15, 2020, 05:58:41 PM
Choir  of church for the advent is prodigious,I really like this ensemble, really do, the voice are warm and fluid sung whit devotion, in other  words, they are real darn good professional, needless to says I own ever record they put out, there dazzling fabulous.

Seek them all like I did and tell me what you think:
H.Praetorius
F.Geurrero
P.de manchicourt vol 1-2
T.Crécquillon vol 1-2
J.Clémens non Papa
G.Dufay

You love renaissance, what are you waiting for, you're missing on  such a skillful & talented ensemble, I love this ensemble so much, it's screaming out awesome all over.

What do you think of them, do you like em, tell me, I think there fantastic, tremendously out of this world great(this is a small word for such an ensemble).
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 24, 2020, 08:47:26 AM
(https://img.discogs.com/SN7fLMYJRVYhMluv6wKdSKVGo1k=/fit-in/600x532/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5103040-1384567882-4905.jpeg.jpg)

Interesting mariological essay from the above CD

QuoteMARIAN SONGS

Throughout the Middle Ages Mary was a focal point for meditation and pray-er. Because she had been human herself, she was pre-eminently able to understand human shortcomings and weaknesses. At the same time, by having conceived and borne the Son of God while retaining her virginity, she was a human being in close contact with the divine. For medieval man this combination of divinity and humanity was one of the most appealing of Mary's characteristics. Mary was invo-ked as 'mediatrix,' a mediator between man and God, and as 'advocata,' an advo-cate pleading for man with God.

In the course of the Middle Ages the relation between Mary and the praying and singing individual gradually changes. In the early Middle Ages Mary is predomi-nantly the distant queen of heaven, at the end of the Middle Ages she is also hailed and invoked as a loving and merci-ful woman. Small wonder that in the plas-tic arts and in literature Mary appears in many different guises. Typical of the early Middle Ages is the image of Mary as the Mother of God, the queen of heaven. She is depicted as a crowned monarch, standing on the crescent moon, garlan-ded with the rays of the sun. In texts which describe Mary in this capacity there is no question of a personal relationship between Mary and the person who is watching or reading and/or liste-ning. Man is - so to speak - not personally involved in what he envisages while praying, singing and listening. He is a spectator who can only sing Mary's prais-es from a distance. Among the songs on the present CD this image of Mary is apparent in e.g. the introit Gaudeamus omnes in Domino and in the hymn Ave generosa, gloriosa et intacta puella. But also in the fifteenth-century Middle Dutch song Laet ons mit hogher vrolicheit Mary is predominantly presented in many of the guises she had acquired in the course of the Middle Ages: chosen Mother of God, pure flower of chastity, noble cham-ber of the Trinity, fountain of sweetness, temple of dignity, noble rose...

Yet in this Middle-Dutch song other qualities are mentioned as well, and in the course of the Middle Ages these beco-me increasingly important in the worship of the Virgin Mary. People sing of Mary as the comforter of all sorrow, the mother of gentleness and mercy. These characte-ristics make her pre-eminently suited for the roles increasingly reserved for her: those of advocata and mediatrix. In Laet ons mit hogher vrolicheit the single task given to man is to sing Mary's praise. Many of the other songs on the present CD present a quite different picture. In these Mary is repeatedly called upon to intercede on man's behalf. Because of his sinfulness and uncleanness man cannot address God and his Son directly, but asks Mary to put in a good word for him.

A splendid example of a song in which the two guises of Mary - queen of heaven and merciful, compassionate mot-her - are lauded is Royne celestre, buer fusses to nee (Queen of heaven, happy was your birth). In the first three stanzas Mary is extolled as heavenly queen, foun-tain of mercy, odoriferous rose, to which man may turn for rest and consolation. In the fourth stanza the poet employs the-mes characteristic of courtly love poetry: in Mary there is no deceit, calculation or ambiguity, disloyalty or falsehood, traits which a lover so often encounters in the lady he (distantly) loves. Unlike the earth-ly lady, Mary is not going to drive him to insanity: for those who love you with a pure love cannot but turn out all right and obtain eternal life.' This stanza is also the pivot of the poem: it is followed by another three stanzas in which man's sinfulness and filthiness are sharply con-trasted with Mary's freshness and purity. The song ends with a prayer to Mary: 'Source of loveliness, have mercy, have mercy. Unite me with your beloved Son, as you have done before with many a lost soul ...'


In the English song Edi be thu hevene quene (Blessed are you, queen of heaven) Mary is both praised on account of her excellent qualities and called upon to have mercy on the 'I' of the song and to unite him with her Son. This song employs even more imagery from the tra-dition of courtly love poetry than Royne celestre. Mary is addressed as 'swete leve-di' (sweet lady) and the 'I'describes him-self as 'thin knight', 'thi mon' (your ser-vant), who is bound to Mary by bonds of love. This particular choice of words gives the poem a very personal, almost intima-te character.


The prayer for intercession and mediation is not always worded in such pregnant and personal language. In the song Santa Maria, strela do dia (Holy Mary, morning star) the prayer for Mary's intercession and mediation is much more detached. There is no 'I' in the poem, but 'sinners' and 'we' instead. Modestly the poet ends with the wish 'and, if it please you, I would dearly like to see my soul in such company.' Also in Maria virgo virgi-num, Salve Regina misericordiae, Quen boa dona querra and Verbum bonum et suave the prayer for intercession and help
is less personal. In this regard it is inter-esting to note that in Mariam Matrem Mary and Jesus are by turns lauded and implored to answer the prayers of the people and to defend them: 'Let us honour Mary, Virgin and mother, and extol Jesus Christ in unity.'

The suffering Mary is extensively port-rayed in the Italian song Or piangiamo, the piange Maria: Let us lament because Mary is more than usually sorrowful. In the first stanza Mary is depicted as stan-ding at the foot of the cross, bent over and weeping, while a thousand spears seem to be piercing her heart. In the sec-ond and third stanzas Mary is speaking. She is inconsolable because she has lost her Son, and she is wondering whom to turn to for help. Such texts were very popular in the late Middle Ages. Very well known is the Stabat mater, a comprehen-sive account of Mary's suffering at the cross. By emphasizing Mary's humanity and vulnerability in this way the praying individual could identify with precisely this humanity and - as it were - unite with Mary in feeling the suffering of her Son.



MARY AND THE OLD TESTAMENT

Together with Jesus, Mary is the link between the Old Testament and the New Testament. Jesus is mentioned frequently in the Old Testament, e.g. in the book of Isaiah and in the Psalms. But for medieval man Mary, too, was obviously connected with the Old Testament. Not only did she belong to the house of David, the famous king who wrote the psalms and whose exploits are chronicled in several Old Testament books. Mary was also regarded as the new Eve, who annulled the effects of the Fall caused by the first Eve, through the immaculate conception and the virgin birth of her Son. In Salve Regina misericordiae the people addres-sing Mary call themselves 'exiles, children of Eve'. This earthly life is a state of exile, which they have to endure because they are Eve's descendants. They implore Mary to be their intercessor, who, after the period of exile is over, will lead them to heaven where they will see Jesus. In Edi be thu hevene quene, too, we find a reference to the bitter sufferings Eve has brought upon her descendants, and to Mary, who will guide them out of their affliction to heaven. In this song there is also a reference to Mary's 'heghe kunne', her high lineage, i.e. her being descended from king David. A similar reference is found in Verbum bonum et suave.


The connection between the Old Testament and Mary does not end here. Medieval theology regarded some Old Testament events as prefigurations of Mary and particularly of the virgin birth of Christ. For most people living in the Middle Ages such references were self-evi-dent. They could be found in theological writings, but they were depicted too, for example in murals and in miniatures in illuminated manuscripts. A miniature in a fifteenth-century manuscript from Zwolle shows the Annunciation: the angel Gabriel tells Mary that she will give birth to the Son of God. In the margin of this miniature there are two smaller miniatu-res, representing Moses with the burning bush and Gideon with the fleece of wool. For the contemporary (educated) behol-der these references were crystal clear:
4
they prefigured the virgin birth of Christ. The bush that was not affected by the fla-mes points forward to Mary, who remai-ned a virgin although she became preg-nant. And the fleece which Gideon had put on the threshing-floor and which became sodden with dew, was seen as a foreshadowing of Mary's conception, while the dry threshing-floor symbolized Mary's virginity. Such prefigurations can also be found in texts. Verbum bonum et suave, with its emphasis on the sweet and good word 'Ave' with which the angel greeted Mary, is a song in praise of the immaculate conception. In this song, too, Gideon's fleece of wool and the sign of the bush' (i.e. the burning bush) are mentioned. A more veiled reference to Gideon's fleece is found in Ave generosa, gloriosa et intacta puella. Here Mary's conception is compared to the grass on which the dew descends and which is infused with growing-power. Also in Laet ons mit hogher vrolicheit, a song about the virgin birth, there is a reference to the 'sweet dew' that fell on Mary, who is depicted as a fresh-blown rose.


THE MUSIC

Between the 10th and 15th centuries a rich Marian repertoire develops, intended for a variety of occasions: Church festivals in honour of Mary, religious plays, proces-sions, pilgrimages, and of devotional mu-sic performed by professional musicians (minstrels) for an evening's entertainment at court.

The minstrel's job was to accompany monophonic songs. This musical tradition was oral: minstrels did not read or write music, but knew countless melodies by heart and were able to improvise an accompaniment on the spot, often with an introduction, an interlude and a closing piece. When no vocalists were at hand, a minstrel could create an entirely new piece on the basis of the conventions with regard to improvisation and composition.

The virtuosity of Gautier de Coinci and Hildegard von Bingen and the refined can-tigas of Alfonso the Wise are contrasted with much simpler music, such as the ear-liest songs of praise in honour of Mary, the Gregorian antiphons. Gregorian chant is monophonic music par excellence. Anti-phons like Ave Maria gratia plena and Salve Regina play an important role in the Marian repertoire, because many subse-quent compositions in honour of the Bles-sed Virgin are based on them. Ever since the 13th century the Marian antiphons have been sung in churches and monaste-ries at the end of Compline, the last of the canonical hours of prayer. Especially in the Low Countries the Marian antiphons found their way to the people: from the end of the 14th century every opportunity was taken to sing or perform them, high up on a tower, in the parvis, on Holy Days, etc. The introit Gaudeamus omnes in Domino is also found in the Gregorian repertoire in honour of Mary.

The visionary nun Hildegard von Bingen wrote songs written down ca. 1150 in the collection Symphonia armonie celesti-urn revelationum. Her poetry and music are both beautiful and idiosyncratic. Scenes from her visions are joined to original melodies of an unusually large melodic range. The song of praise Ave generosa was notated under her supervision.


The 13th-century French musician, poet and abbot Gautier de Coinci lived in an era in which cultural life was dominated by poetry. Most of his songs are contra-facts: new words set to existing melodies. As a poet he is one of the all-time greats. From his most important work, Miracles de Nostre-Dame, he emerges as a passionate verbal wizard. In 40.000 lines of verse Gautier recounts the miracles worked by the Virgin Mary, and intersperses his narra-tive with prayers and songs. One of these
songs is the lay Royne celestre. The lay, a lengthy epic song, was regarded as the ultimate poetic challenge.

La quarte estampie Royale is one of the few examples of notated instrumental music from this period. It is one of eight `petrified' improvisations to be found in the Old French Manuscrit du roi. The pres-ent CD contains further examples of ins-trumental improvisation, some traditional, some made up spontaneously during per-formance. The Estampida splendida is an improvisation on the caccia 0 Virgo splen-dens from the Llibre Vermeil. The estampie is followed by the polyphonic song Mariam Matrem from the same manu-script. The Llibre Vermeil is the 14th-centu-ry collection of Marian songs kept in the monastery of Montserrat, which is dedica-ted to the 'black madonna' (The Blessed Virgin Maria).

The motet Maria virgo virginum can be found in the French satirical poem Roman de Fauvel, which is an important source for 11th- through 13th-century music. The poet of the Roman de Fauvel satirizes various social evils and invokes the help of the Virgin of Virgins.


Dance tune is the earliest notated ins-trumental music from England. It is a rebec solo. Because of its loud and pier-cing sound the rebec was used during pro-cessions to keep the devils at bay. The Dance tune is preceded by Edi be thu, hevene quene, a melody with typically English parallel thirds. In the rest of Europe at that time the third was not regarded as a harmonious interval. The instrumental intermezzi are improvised.

The estampie Danza Ave Maria pia, performed on a portative organ, develo-ped from an improvised prelude to the sequence Verbum bonum et suave. It is based on an organ intabulation of the Gregorian Credo in a recently discovered manuscript dating from 1445.

The title of the improvised Bassa dan-za sopra Salve Regina hints at its source of inspiration, and also informs us that the melody of the antiphon is to be heard in the bass.


The song of praise Laet ons mit hog-her vrolicheit, a Dutchified version of the 12th-century Ave marls stella, is performed in alternatim fashion (vocal-instrumental). The instrumental part is improvised. Salve Regina and Ave mods stella belong to the Dutch Marian repertoire of the late Middle Ages. Instrumentalists would improvise of an evening on the Marian antiphons and other songs . The Dutch text of the hymn comes from the hymnal of the religious movement known as 'Modeme Devotie'. The members of this lay community were enjoined to silence, but they were allowed to sing hymns from their own little hymn in which the Marian songs figure prominently.

The 13th-century Cantigas de Santa Maria are the Spanish counterpart of Mira-cles de Nostre-Dame. They recount over 400 miracles worked by Mary, many of the songs being contrafacts. An important dif-ference with the Miracles is that the Can-tigas included only songs. The poems are written in Galician-Portuguese, an artificial language used for lyric poetry. King Alfonso X the Wise was the patron of this undertaking. The enlightened monarch turned his court into a centre of art and learning, and participated in the actual writing of the Cantigas, in which two types of song can be distinguished. Most of the ,ongs are `cantigas de miragre', miniature miracle plays set to music. Santa Maria, strela do dia and Quen boa dona querra belong to the minority category of `canti-gas de loor', simple songs of praise sung during worship in church.

In 13th century Italy, under the influence of Franciscan friars, the lay fraternities of the laudesi (singers of praise) were for-med, which for centuries - extending into the 20th century - helped to strengthen the social fabric of the community. They developed an immense repertory of songs of praise, the laude. These have come down to us in some 200 manuscripts, only two of which - Cortona and Florence -contain musical notation. The songs in the Cortona manuscript have simple, syllabic melodies, and are suitable for use during processions; hence the assumption that they were popular with the common peop-le. 0 divina virgo is an instrumental ver-sion of the lauda of the same title. The manuscript from Florence shows a deve-lopment towards melismatic laude for solo performance, but the melodic structure remains lucid notwithstanding, witness Or piangiamo the piange Maria.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on February 24, 2020, 10:15:14 AM
This is quite impressive Mandryka, very insightful, I'm blown away, so fascinating, what do you think of Jacob Regnart marian motets I.m,
perhaps I,m lasy but do happen to have some quantity of marian motets. The adoration of virgin Mary as theme in this Burgundy era, nice find.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 24, 2020, 11:17:05 AM
Regnart is very special to me because of a recording,  not marian motets, amateur singing by today's standards and no doubt old fashioned, but palpably intense, committed music making in that special way that pioneer amateur singers can bring. He shares the LP with his contemporary Leonhardt Lechner. I have a transfer, a good one, which you are welcome to have.

(http://i58.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0327/96/cd6331e2c6ba5a4fece0a97193df5796.jpg?r=1)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on March 03, 2020, 04:55:04 PM
Andrew Carwood an excellent conductor of ensemble The fabulous: The Cardinal's musick and pick and choose a tremendously good composer: Orlande Lassus or Robert Fayrfax etc ...

Chance are it will be a keeper to cherish, thank you mister Carwood, My Lassus Missa surge Propera whit motets is one of my favorite Lassus release ever, timeless. the triple albums of Fayrfax is fantastic and majestic, very enjoyable, delightful pleasure.

I will be on a look out for more The cardinal's musick & Andrew Carwood work.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on March 04, 2020, 09:05:58 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 24, 2020, 11:17:05 AM
Regnart is very special to me because of a recording,  not marian motets, amateur singing by today's standards and no doubt old fashioned, but palpably intense, committed music making in that special way that pioneer amateur singers can bring. He shares the LP with his contemporary Leonhardt Lechner. I have a transfer, a good one, which you are welcome to have.

(http://i58.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0327/96/cd6331e2c6ba5a4fece0a97193df5796.jpg?r=1)

hello Madryka wow what a vinyl Regnart on Eterna, I have one ars nova album on that label thick robust vinyl from 1960.I worship Eterna release, this Label has good offerings, this is one of them. Have a nice day.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 04, 2020, 09:36:38 AM
In fact, re Regnart I even like the Ciquecento recording. I say "even" because the style and the sound of that group is not usually something I respond to well -- they make a noise which is too rich and purple and chocolate coloured for my taste. I want a bit more lemon juice. But somehow their Regnart  CD caught my imagination, so that may say something about the music.

Chapeau à vous pour avoir deniché une perle de compositeur!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on April 05, 2020, 04:44:39 PM
His music for his small output is very interesting, well craft music, for it's respective time.All I'm aware is Ensemble Cenquencento's Requiem of his, fews Motets, perhaps chanson, or other things, please anyone know much more this composer of Kingdom of Burgundy, any other album full length of Richafort?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Biffo on April 06, 2020, 01:36:29 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on April 05, 2020, 04:44:39 PM
His music for his small output is very interesting, well craft music, for it's respective time.All I'm aware is Ensemble Cenquencento's Requiem of his, fews Motets, perhaps chanson, or other things, please anyone know much more this composer of Kingdom of Burgundy, any other album full length of Richafort?

His Requiem (In memoriam Josquin Desprez) has also been recorded by the Huelgas-Ensemble directed by Paul Van Nevel (harmonia mundi); it is coupled with 6 motets.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on April 06, 2020, 09:09:13 AM
Quote from: Biffo on April 06, 2020, 01:36:29 AM
His Requiem (In memoriam Josquin Desprez) has also been recorded by the Huelgas-Ensemble directed by Paul Van Nevel (harmonia mundi); it is coupled with 6 motets.

I was not aware of Huelgas Ensemble recording thanks Biffo  for sharing.  8)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on April 06, 2020, 09:44:21 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on April 06, 2020, 09:09:13 AM
I was not aware of Huelgas Ensemble recording thanks Biffo  for sharing.  8)

[asin]B00A2CL6SQ[/asin]

Also, volumes I, II, IV & V of the Leiden Choirbooks each contain a short piece by Johannes (Jean) Richafort.

Q
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on April 12, 2020, 06:06:51 PM
I was really impressed by Jean Richafort, this is why I,m ordering ''Richafort Requiem'' on Signum label by King's  singers, soon...

You folks heard or have it?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on May 10, 2020, 07:07:41 AM
Here a new name in ars subtilior  era  not well knowed  I have one album of his work called:

Antonius de Civitate un musicista fiulaano... ensemble Dramsam release in 1997 on some label ?

Any info  on him  or other recordings please folks.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on May 10, 2020, 10:31:06 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on May 10, 2020, 07:07:41 AM
Here a new name in ars subtilior  era  not well knowed  I have one album of his work called:

Antonius de Civitate un musicista fiulaano... ensemble Dramsam release in 1997 on some label ?

Any info  on him  or other recordings please folks.

Antonio da Cividale or Antonius de Civitate. Very little of his works have survived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_da_Cividale

Presto has some of it:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/search?search_query=%2FAntonio_da_Cividale
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on May 10, 2020, 01:35:10 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on May 10, 2020, 10:31:06 AM
Antonio da Cividale or Antonius de Civitate. Very little of his works have survived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_da_Cividale

Presto has some of it:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/search?search_query=%2FAntonio_da_Cividale
Thanks Premont for sharing
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: TheGSMoeller on May 22, 2020, 07:55:53 PM
Double posting from the Purchased Thread...

Been working on a big Early Music haul for the past month or so. There are even a few others I didn't post a pretty picture of, one more Josquin (Clerk's Group), two Ockeghem (Tallis Scholars, Oxford Camerata), and Requiem compilation (Tallis Scholars). I have a few more I'd like to get, as I'm becoming more and more obsessed with this era.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71C6qjYVWNL._SY355_.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71jRMBFF77L._SY355_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71UH5SP5EHL._SY355_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51jHf0mo5cL._SX355_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81iNG354L0L._SX355_.jpg)   (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81LUDqE%2BtRL._SX425_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61CvwSUSsTL._SY355_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/818eZPnYBnL._SY355_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41-83fpKRBL._SY355_.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61T4quySVIL._SL355_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on May 23, 2020, 08:45:27 AM
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on May 22, 2020, 07:55:53 PM
Double posting from the Purchased Thread...

Been working on a big Early Music haul for the past month or so. There are even a few others I didn't post a pretty picture of, one more Josquin (Clerk's Group), two Ockeghem (Tallis Scholars, Oxford Camerata), and Requiem compilation (Tallis Scholars). I have a few more I'd like to get, as I'm becoming more and more obsessed with this era.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71C6qjYVWNL._SY355_.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71jRMBFF77L._SY355_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71UH5SP5EHL._SY355_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51jHf0mo5cL._SX355_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81iNG354L0L._SX355_.jpg)   (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81LUDqE%2BtRL._SX425_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61CvwSUSsTL._SY355_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/818eZPnYBnL._SY355_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41-83fpKRBL._SY355_.jpg)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61T4quySVIL._SL355_.jpg)

I know all of these except the Glossa Gesualdo. There are some very good things there, given that you're open to the style of the performances, the broad approach, there are no failures or major disappointments.

You may find that the Gesualdo stands out from the rest -- a totally different musical tradition from Josquin, Dufay and Ockeghem.

It was very pleasant this afternoon to be reminded of Marc Leones's Josquin intabulations recording.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: TheGSMoeller on May 23, 2020, 03:15:07 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 23, 2020, 08:45:27 AM
I know all of these except the Glossa Gesualdo. There are some very good things there, given that you're open to the style of the performances, the broad approach, there are no failures or major disappointments.

You may find that the Gesualdo stands out from the rest -- a totally different musical tradition from Josquin, Dufay and Ockeghem.

It was very pleasant this afternoon to be reminded of Marc Leones's Josquin intabulations recording.

I've had a fairly good Early Music selection already, and the several Gesualdo discs I did have I do cherish (Concerto Italiano, Les Arts Florissants, Hilliard Ensemble), but I'm anxious for these new additions . I had originally only obtained one recording of many works, but the past year I've realized that, similar to most classical pieces, there is much more to discover from these multiple performances. And I also find myself gravitating more towards the performances with one-voice-per-part.


Here are few more that I've ordered this year including Gesulado's music.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41QyyUpxUiL._SY355_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71063r0hhIL._SL300_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on June 20, 2020, 01:55:43 AM
Any Ars Vetus -anonymous or lesser known composer case that are so bold for there time..

Prior to ars subtilio, mysterious Solage & Gesualdo(renaissance that had chromatism or micro tonal, or odd stuffs), to you'rs ear's...

Yep nothing so special I'm starting an ancient lore lronic Avant-garde of ending Gregorian to bizzare sung Gregorians sounding but not quite odds modes manuscripts founds and ars vetus bold complex song's for it's time.Ok to started this for the better, there is one composer of year 1000 era I find strange and I explain you why...

Jesse Stirpe of Fulbert de Chartres, there are two CD available one by french ensemble
Venace Fortunat dir Anne-Marie Deschamps, know please if you have this CD re lisen to it, re heard this one... there seem to be some oditity in modes in singing for it's time, Fulbert de Chartres music look so alive, vibrant and stunning , less format than straight forward Gregorian, The singing is Unusual me variation and so on, like some melodrama no kidding,, it well elaborated, there is another album done on Brittish label of Fulbert de Chartres, one monk Chartreux, d'ou viendrais la fameuse Chartreuse, a french liquor very well elaborated 200+  herbs if I recalled would drink it sometime but it's expensive for what you got in quantity, beer bottle size, I drank green chartreuse but not the yellow one, lesser strong and lesser elaborated, less herbs.

If Fulbert de Chartres  composed music he was perhaps sometime under influence of Chartreuse, witch is somewhere closer to Absinthe(like her sister stronger alcohol). You get a buzz, a strange buzz from it similar to what  Absinthe dose, perhaps there is thuyonne in it the mystic herbs of absinth liquor, short parenthesis...

So is music hyper listen to this and the other Fulbert on English label I Don't have an image the CD more expensive lesser know I'm not sure which ensemble it's on Whom heard this CD , Audiophile, musicologist, can speak about it and said heck deprofundis , it's indeed bizare aftertaste, like you're hyper on Chartreuse listening to Fulbert de Chartres, and tell me about it, listen carefully and tell me, drink a bottle of chartreuse  whit one singular 3 litre bottle of spring water, while slowly  hear the music, taking notes, how do you feel about tracks and singing an Aldeus Auxley experiment, I have done it in the past, under this psychotrophic, chartreuse.

So if you find odd, boldness in Fulbert de Chartres tell me?

Or strange pattern, all of this waste on chartreuse.





Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on July 02, 2020, 09:18:33 PM
I've been listening to much music from La Reverdie recently. I think it's because of the recommendation of Mandryka. I gotta say that it's pretty hard to understand early vocal music even though I now feel very attracted. I like La Reverdie but I don't know why I like them better when comparing them to other groups via Von Bingen's music. I really like simple, unforced, un-operatic sounding voices.
Anyway, it's hard to understand HOW to listen to early vocal music and I don't yet know the difference between monophonic and polyphonic music - in the way it sounds really. Some of this is chanting, some of it something else. 
I started out listening to "Historia Sancti Eadmundi." I quite like this. I also like Von Bingen. I guess there's a lot of famous church music and famous names like Dufay. I don't yet know what to listen for with this music. So I'm here to complain about the hugeness of this genre and my own laziness.
Does anyone have any hints in how you came to appreciate this music, how you came to figure out what you like and why, how you came to evaluate your tastes and the performances?
What are the big differences between performance styles of early music? I'm trying to figure out why I like La Reverdie too.
Do you think this genre is hard on laymen?
I also wonder about people listening to this music in its day. I'm assuming that was done in churches. Didn't everyone fall asleep in the pews? I like to doze off to this stuff. They didn't even have coffee.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on July 03, 2020, 02:25:57 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81CcZvcp1aL._SS500_.jpg) What an amazing sounding recording.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 03, 2020, 07:06:17 AM
Quote from: milk on July 02, 2020, 09:18:33 PM
So I'm here to complain about the hugeness of this genre and my own laziness.


There's about 300 years separating Hildegard and Dufay, about the same as there is between Bach and us. And there's lots of music pre Hildegard. So I wouldn't try to bite it all off at once!

Quote from: milk on July 02, 2020, 09:18:33 PM
I've been listening to much music from La Reverdie recently. . .  I really like simple, unforced, un-operatic sounding voices. . .  I don't yet know what to listen for with this music. What are the big differences between performance styles of early music?

La Reverdie are unforced, as you say. They can sometimes emphasise regular rhythms, and they can sometimes cut the music up into short phrases.  An alternative approach would be more fluid, sensual, graceful, and more raw and visceral.


Quote from: milk on July 02, 2020, 09:18:33 PMDoes anyone have any hints in how you came to appreciate this music, how you came to figure out what you like and why, how you came to evaluate your tastes and the performances?

The singer matters, I have to click with the singer's voice. My advice to you is to dabble around aimlessly and informally until you find a singer who turns you on and then find all the recordings that that singer made -- explore the repertoire that way.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on July 03, 2020, 10:29:37 PM
What was you're first love in Genre of ancient lore?


Gregorian (pre medieval)
Ars Vetus
Ars Nova
Ars subtilior

Simple question simple answer please ,I really like Ars Vetus simplicity straighforwardness
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on July 04, 2020, 03:34:07 AM
Hmm...Gregorian was sometimes sung by women?

Is anyone willing to start in the 10th century and give an example or two, from each century leading up to the renaissance, of music and recordings that you like? And why?

As far as Hildegard, what are the favorites around here? Who are the other successful composer from Von Bingen's day? This is monophonic music, right? What other great monophonic me is exists? Who the the first polyphonic composers?

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Biffo on July 04, 2020, 05:48:38 AM
Quote from: milk on July 04, 2020, 03:34:07 AM
Hmm...Gregorian was sometimes sung by women?

Is anyone willing to start in the 10th century and give an example or two, from each century leading up to the renaissance, of music and recordings that you like? And why?

As far as Hildegard, what are the favorites around here? Who are the other successful composer from Von Bingen's day? This is monophonic music, right? What other great monophonic me is exists? Who the the first polyphonic composers?

This period of music (pre 1450) doesn't really interest me and I would be pushed to give examples of even one composer from each century, especially as a lot (most?) of the music is anonymous.

The earliest music I can find in my collection is from the Codex Calixtinus and this dates from the 12th century; the manuscript is in two parts, the first works in the gregorian style, the second early examples of polyphony. It has been recorded by Ensemble Venance Fortunat and possibly others.

Martin Codax (mid 13th century) has left a small collection of songs in Gallo-Portuguese. These are beautifully sung by the splendidly named Vivabiancaluna Biffi in an album called Ondas.

Jordi Savall has recorded albums from this era including one devoted to troubadour music (c 1200) - Cansos de Trobairitz and also the Libre Vermeil de Montserrat - a 14th century pilgrimage

There is three disc set from David Munrow - Music from the Gothic Era you might want to explore, it has mainly named composers. It is probably rather dated now for the early music enthusiasts
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on July 04, 2020, 05:55:23 AM
Quote from: milk on July 04, 2020, 03:34:07 AM
Hmm...Gregorian was sometimes sung by women?

Is anyone willing to start in the 10th century and give an example or two, from each century leading up to the renaissance, of music and recordings that you like? And why?

As far as Hildegard, what are the favorites around here? Who are the other successful composer from Von Bingen's day? This is monophonic music, right? What other great monophonic me is exists? Who the the first polyphonic composers?


Nokter Balbulus or Hermann der Lame perhaps?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on July 04, 2020, 07:29:10 AM
Quote from: Biffo on July 04, 2020, 05:48:38 AM
This period of music (pre 1450) doesn't really interest me and I would be pushed to give examples of even one composer from each century, especially as a lot (most?) of the music is anonymous.

The earliest music I can find in my collection is from the Codex Calixtinus and this dates from the 12th century; the manuscript is in two parts, the first works in the gregorian style, the second early examples of polyphony. It has been recorded by Ensemble Venance Fortunat and possibly others.

Martin Codax (mid 13th century) has left a small collection of songs in Gallo-Portuguese. These are beautifully sung by the splendidly named Vivabiancaluna Biffi in an album called Ondas.

Jordi Savall has recorded albums from this era including one devoted to troubadour music (c 1200) - Cansos de Trobairitz and also the Libre Vermeil de Montserrat - a 14th century pilgrimage

There is three disc set from David Munrow - Music from the Gothic Era you might want to explore, it has mainly named composers. It is probably rather dated now for the early music enthusiasts
thanks for these recommendations. Post-1450 is polyphonic?

Has anyone heard this ensemble?
(https://d24jnm9llkb1ub.cloudfront.net/icpn/5400439003835/5400439003835-cover-zoom.jpg)

Quote from: deprofundis on July 04, 2020, 05:55:23 AM

Nokter Balbulus or Hermann der Lame perhaps?
thanks!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Biffo on July 04, 2020, 07:36:55 AM
Quote from: milk on July 04, 2020, 07:29:10 AM
thanks for these recommendations. Post-1450 is polyphonic?

Has anyone heard this ensemble?
(https://d24jnm9llkb1ub.cloudfront.net/icpn/5400439003835/5400439003835-cover-zoom.jpg)
thanks!

Generally speaking yes but a mass or vespers would have sections that were plainsong. Some of the longer prayers were set with alternating verses of plainsong and polyphony otherwise the service would be impractically long.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on July 04, 2020, 07:30:25 PM
Quote from: Biffo on July 04, 2020, 05:48:38 AM
Martin Codax (mid 13th century) has left a small collection of songs in Gallo-Portuguese. These are beautifully sung by the splendidly named Vivabiancaluna Biffi in an album called Ondas.

How about Supramusica? I'm listening to that Martin Codax because I could find it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Biffo on July 05, 2020, 02:56:08 AM
Quote from: milk on July 04, 2020, 07:30:25 PM
How about Supramusica? I'm listening to that Martin Codax because I could find it.

No idea what Supramusica is.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 05, 2020, 04:30:30 AM
Quote from: milk on July 04, 2020, 03:34:07 AM
Hmm...Gregorian was sometimes sung by women?



Yes
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 05, 2020, 05:05:22 AM
Quote from: milk on July 04, 2020, 03:34:07 AM


Is anyone willing to start in the 10th century and give an example or two, from each century leading up to the renaissance, of music and recordings that you like? And why?


For c10. compare the styles of La Reverdie singing lylium convallium (on Suso Italia Bella) and Venance Fortunat singing In conspectu angelorum (on The Eternal Chant from Cistercian Abbeys vol, 1)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 05, 2020, 05:23:43 AM
And I think that they Sybil Latine on this CD is 10th century, but I'm not sure.

https://www.youtube.com/v/zt5seobVgtM
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: petrarch on July 05, 2020, 05:45:32 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 05, 2020, 05:23:43 AM
And I think that they Sybil Latine on this CD is 10th century, but I'm not sure.

https://www.youtube.com/v/zt5seobVgtM

The Latin Sybil is indeed the oldest, dating from the 10th-11th century.

You can read some of the booklet text on the page of the reissue of the CD:

https://www.alia-vox.com/en/catalogue/el-cant-de-la-sibila-catalunya/
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on July 05, 2020, 05:58:36 AM
Hello folks hello Mandryka, hello everyone (including Irish) sorry voicing my hatred for catholic protestant rixte anymosity hatred, sorry Irish Catholicc has your majority you're bullying protestant minority, wich I find it not cool, but  I acknowledge  you been treated unfairly in the past, animosity between catholic and protestyant should seazed we are christian , of different rites but we believe in same essential message no same teaching it's no reason to fight, sorry for harness  from , I feel real bad but Bono arrogance and Gerry Adam party  Seinn Feinn i disagree whit there methods, Whit this all said, I will eend this mea culpa sorry guys?

Than since we are on, early music club, what about fantastic codex Montpellier or Bamberg codex?? I LOVE SO MUCH SONT KNOW WHY HOQUETUS OR QUITE SOMETHING ODD MONKS CHANTS???
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 05, 2020, 09:30:22 AM
Quote from: petrarch on July 05, 2020, 05:45:32 AM
The Latin Sybil is indeed the oldest, dating from the 10th-11th century.

You can read some of the booklet text on the page of the reissue of the CD:

https://www.alia-vox.com/en/catalogue/el-cant-de-la-sibila-catalunya/

It's a shame that no-one else seems to have bitten off this music. I like Savall and I like Fugueras, but I bet a performance more informed by current understanding of performance practice would come up with something totally different.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 05, 2020, 09:33:08 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on July 05, 2020, 05:58:36 AM
Hello folks hello Mandryka, hello everyone (including Irish) sorry voicing my hatred for catholic protestant rixte anymosity hatred, sorry Irish Catholicc has your majority you're bullying protestant minority, wich I find it not cool, but  I acknowledge  you been treated unfairly in the past, animosity between catholic and protestyant should seazed we are christian , of different rites but we believe in same essential message no same teaching it's no reason to fight, sorry for harness  from , I feel real bad but Bono arrogance and Gerry Adam party  Seinn Feinn i disagree whit there methods, Whit this all said, I will eend this mea culpa sorry guys?

Than since we are on, early music club, what about fantastic codex Montpellier or Bamberg codex?? I LOVE SO MUCH SONT KNOW WHY HOQUETUS OR QUITE SOMETHING ODD MONKS CHANTS???

What do you make of this? (It was the track after a bit of the Montpellier codex on the CD -- not very interesting for me unfortunately because just instrumental.)

https://www.youtube.com/v/q7AuxJLVJeg
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on July 05, 2020, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: Biffo on July 05, 2020, 02:56:08 AM
No idea what Supramusica is.

A Spanish Early music group.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7931727--codax-cantigas-de-amigo-etc
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Biffo on July 06, 2020, 12:39:28 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 05, 2020, 01:57:45 PM
A Spanish Early music group.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7931727--codax-cantigas-de-amigo-etc

Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 06, 2020, 02:38:43 AM
QuoteThe group Supramúsica was created in Vilareal in 1987, to perform and make known the
entire wealth and possibilities generated by
music fundamentally from the Middle Ages
to the Renaissance.

Its repertoire, focused on the one hand on
secular music and, on the other, on nonliturgical religious music, concentrates particularly on the performance of the vocal and
instrumental music of Christian Europe in
the Middle Ages and the Renaissance and,
especially, that centred on the Iberian
Peninsula.

Among the various repertoires the group has
compiled during its musical life, reference
may be made to the monographic cycles
dedicated to the Uppsala Songbook, the
Palacio Songbook, medieval dance and, at present, a repertoire generically named Cantigas,
which seeks to evoke the music likely to have
been heard along the medieval Way to
Santiago: the Cantigas de amigo of the
Galician troubadour Martin Codax and the
Cantigas de Santa María of Alfonso X, King
of Castile.

The instruments used by Supramúsica have
been made according to originals still conserved, and from engravings, drawings and
sculptures, also from the time. Among them,
we may list the hurdy-gurdy, the saz, rebec,
fiddle, lute, theorbo, psaltery, recorders, chalemie, crumhorn, Kortholt, cornamusa, and
the entire percussion range.

Supramúsica has taken part in such prestigious events as the Fifth International
Festival of Early and Baroque Music of
Peñíscola, the Festival of Early Music
–Music, History and Art– held in Valencia,
the Cycle of Medieval Spanish Music organised by the Juan March Foundation en
Madrid –broadcast live by Spanish National
Radio's Classical Music Station– and the
fourth, fifth and sixth editions of the Cycle
of Early Music of Vila.

Throughout its history, Supramúsica has
drawn on a repertoire particularly suitable for
illustrating with music a variety of commemorations and events such as the 750th
anniversary of the birth of the town of
Valencia, the fifth centenary of the discovery
of America, or the celebration of the year of
St. James.


The instruments do indeed sound interesting on that CD which seems to be their only release. Bit new age hippy folk festival in approach, but that may be the nature of the music for all I know.  Quite nice.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Biffo on July 06, 2020, 02:48:43 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 06, 2020, 02:38:43 AM

The instruments do indeed sound interesting on that CD which seems to be their only release. Bit new age hippy folk festival in approach, but that may be the nature of the music for all I know.  Quite nice.

The recording of the Cantigas de amigo  I mentioned is performed by Vivabiancaluna Biffi (voice and viola d'arco) and Pierre Hamon (medieval flutes) and doesn't strike as being folksy. I will have to check out the Supramusica performance and what they do to the music. I think that performances from this period are possibly very speculative, even if the result is enjoyable.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on July 06, 2020, 03:02:15 AM
Quote from: Biffo on July 06, 2020, 02:48:43 AM
The recording of the Cantigas de amigo  I mentioned is performed by Vivabiancaluna Biffi (voice and viola d'arco) and Pierre Hamon (medieval flutes) and doesn't strike as being folksy. I will have to check out the Supramusica performance and what they do to the music. I think that performances from this period are possibly very speculative, even if the result is enjoyable.

Certainly. The Cantigas de amigo aren't but short monodic songs, but most of the recordings of these  I have heard are still enjoyable.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Biffo on July 06, 2020, 03:22:57 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 06, 2020, 03:02:15 AM
Certainly. The Cantigas de amigo aren't but short monodic songs, but most of the recordings of these  I have heard are still enjoyable.

I searched Spotify for Martin Codax and turned up a surprising number of entries - some of them single songs that have been anthologized. I listened to the Supramusica recording - good in parts but could have done without the recitations and some of the instrumental contributions.

The search reminded me of King Alfonso X of Castile (El Sabio, The Wise) - Codax was possibly associated with his court (?). Our friend might try one of the albums featuring music from his court.

Jordi Savall has recorded three (?) albums of EL Canto Sibilla. Vol 2 (Galicia Castilla) has music from Alfonso's court.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 06, 2020, 06:17:45 AM
Quote from: Biffo on July 06, 2020, 02:48:43 AM
The recording of the Cantigas de amigo  I mentioned is performed by Vivabiancaluna Biffi (voice and viola d'arco) and Pierre Hamon (medieval flutes) and doesn't strike as being folksy. I will have to check out the Supramusica performance and what they do to the music. I think that performances from this period are possibly very speculative, even if the result is enjoyable.

Well I'm probably not being fair to Supramusica. There's something kind of sixties about the way some of this sort of music is presented, it reminds me of listening to Pink Floyd in an open air concert. Or maybe a film with Britt Ekland dancing nude in a field with haystacks.  I'm listening to Supramusica play Cantigas de Amigo: No. 7. Ai ondas que eu vin veere now, and that's the vibe.

I know that El Sabio wouldn't have had it played like this. Don't ask me how I know, but I do. I have magic powers.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Biffo on July 07, 2020, 01:20:00 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 06, 2020, 06:17:45 AM
Well I'm probably not being fair to Supramusica. There's something kind of sixties about the way some of this sort of music is presented, it reminds me of listening to Pink Floyd in an open air concert. Or maybe a film with Britt Ekland dancing nude in a field with haystacks.  I'm listening to Supramusica play Cantigas de Amigo: No. 7. Ai ondas que eu vin veere now, and that's the vibe.

I know that El Sabio wouldn't have had it played like this. Don't ask me how I know, but I do. I have magic powers.

Having now heard the Supramusica album and read your new posting I can appreciate what you are saying.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on July 12, 2020, 02:05:41 AM
Hortus Deliciarum:


(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81K6cU2n+CL._SS500_.jpg)


I remember buying this CD many years ago under the misapprehension that it was a collection of the music of Hildegard. As it transpired she is only credited four times out of twenty one tracks, the rest being credited to other sources.

Having said that, this is a wonderful CD with heavenly singing from Discantus under the direction of Brigitte Lesne. Nonetheless, I still remember my great disappointment at the time because it was not all Hildegard's music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on July 12, 2020, 04:07:01 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71lkLUh9RbL._SS500_.jpg)
I'm stuck on La Reverdie. I just like their singing. But, this one is pretty good. Maybe it's a similar sound?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on July 12, 2020, 04:43:25 AM
Quote from: milk on July 12, 2020, 04:07:01 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71lkLUh9RbL._SS500_.jpg)
I'm stuck on La Reverdie. I just like their singing. But, this one is pretty good. Maybe it's a similar sound?

I do not know that CD I am afraid so I cannot comment other than to agree that the sound may indeed be similar. If anyone has both recordings perhaps they can enlighten us.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 12, 2020, 11:50:25 PM
(https://storage.highresaudio.com/2020/02/26/pd6obc-dasliederb-preview-m3.jpg)

Johan Van Veen's just posted a review of this 2019 CD, which you'll find on streaming platforms.

When it first came out I was impressed by the Penalosa Ensemble release because of the feeling of domestic music making, like a Schubertiad, However I found that the programme didn't excite my imagination enough to stay the course for a whole CD. I don't know whether this due to me, the music, the performances, or something else. Anyway, I returned to it today after reading Van's review and felt much the same. 

However there's one thing I want to say, there's a couple of songs by a composer called Adam Rener which, I think, are a bit special. Does anyone know anything about Adam Rener - other works? There's one thing on this old stinker

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/811Wb-NjoiL._AC_SL1429_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 02, 2020, 03:52:42 AM
Quote from: aligreto on July 12, 2020, 02:05:41 AM
Hortus Deliciarum:


(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81K6cU2n+CL._SS500_.jpg)


I remember buying this CD many years ago under the misapprehension that it was a collection of the music of Hildegard. As it transpired she is only credited four times out of twenty one tracks, the rest being credited to other sources.

Having said that, this is a wonderful CD with heavenly singing from Discantus under the direction of Brigitte Lesne. Nonetheless, I still remember my great disappointment at the time because it was not all Hildegard's music.
Ooh!  This is lovely!  I'm trying to explore more early music myself and found this track from your album on youTube--if anyone else here is curious.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7OYMeaaBGA

PD
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 02, 2020, 03:56:28 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 12, 2020, 11:50:25 PM
(https://storage.highresaudio.com/2020/02/26/pd6obc-dasliederb-preview-m3.jpg)

Johan Van Veen's just posted a review of this 2019 CD, which you'll find on streaming platforms.

When it first came out I was impressed by the Penalosa Ensemble release because of the feeling of domestic music making, like a Schubertiad, However I found that the programme didn't excite my imagination enough to stay the course for a whole CD. I don't know whether this due to me, the music, the performances, or something else. Anyway, I returned to it today after reading Van's review and felt much the same. 

However there's one thing I want to say, there's a couple of songs by a composer called Adam Rener which, I think, are a bit special. Does anyone know anything about Adam Rener - other works? There's one thing on this old stinker

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/811Wb-NjoiL._AC_SL1429_.jpg)
I'd love to hear that Wunderlich CD?  I believe that I remember reading about these performances a number of years ago (I was busy 'binging' on Fritz Wunderlich then).  How are the remasters?

PD
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on August 02, 2020, 04:26:41 AM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on August 02, 2020, 03:52:42 AM

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81K6cU2n+CL._SS500_.jpg)

Ooh!  This is lovely!  I'm trying to explore more early music myself and found this track from your album on youTube--if anyone else here is curious.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7OYMeaaBGA

PD

Yes, it is very fine. I am glad that you enjoyed it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 03, 2020, 01:11:16 AM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on August 02, 2020, 03:56:28 AM
I'd love to hear that Wunderlich CD?  I believe that I remember reading about these performances a number of years ago (I was busy 'binging' on Fritz Wunderlich then).  How are the remasters?

PD

It's ok. You should be able to find samples. My main reservation is that I grow tired of his voice and the approach, it can become quickly monotonous, everything treated in the same way. But in small doses it's alright.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on August 03, 2020, 01:29:39 AM
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8390847--fritz-wunderlich-music-before-bach
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 03, 2020, 02:08:59 AM
Thank you Mandryka.   :)

PD
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on August 09, 2020, 01:59:41 AM
Officium: [Hilliard Ensemble/Garbarek]


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71tme995xXL._AC_SL1400_.jpg)    (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Sad4PEyUL._AC_SL1280_.jpg)


This long standing favourite of mine is a reworking of Early Music by the Hilliard Ensemble/Garbarek. Wailing solo saxophone over a male choir. Anyone who has not experienced this take on Early Music is, I hope, in for a pleasant listening experience. This is something different and perhaps one will either like it or loathe it. I think that it works very well, that it is successful and I like it a lot. It is faithful to the music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on August 10, 2020, 02:58:44 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/819aJnR4jBL._SL1000_.jpg)

I'm mesmerized by this music. Actually I've been listening to a lot of La Reverdie's recordings.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on August 15, 2020, 03:53:59 AM
Just listened to Flemish Polyphonic Treasures for Charles V (on Naxos).  Hadn't played that in years.  It was a nice way to start off my morning.

Enjoyed reading (in the booklet) about 'Alamire'--including his spying for Henry VIII--who suspected him of being a double-agent (which according to Wiki was true) and wondered if he had survived that?  Apparently, he was out of England at the time when the news broke and, wisely, decided not to return.

Has anyone here seen any of the manuscripts that he wrote and illustrated?  Were the illustrations very lavish or were they more just functional?  Note:  judging by the CD cover (which I'm guessing is of one of his illustrations), looks like they were fairly ornate.

PD
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on August 16, 2020, 01:41:09 AM
Quote from: aligreto on August 09, 2020, 01:59:41 AM
Officium: [Hilliard Ensemble/Garbarek]


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71tme995xXL._AC_SL1400_.jpg)   


This long standing favourite of mine is a reworking of Early Music by the Hilliard Ensemble/Garbarek. Wailing solo saxophone over a male choir. Anyone who has not experienced this take on Early Music is, I hope, in for a pleasant listening experience. This is something different and perhaps one will either like it or loathe it. I think that it works very well, that it is successful and I like it a lot. It is faithful to the music.


Mnemosyne [Hilliard Ensemble/Garbarek]


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71ZaGXNaFzL._AC_SL1400_.jpg)


This album is the sequel to the album Officium [which I posted recently] by the same forces. It is also, basically, the same type of fare but is something of a development upon it. If you liked Officium, you will definitely like Mnemosyne also. It is recorded in a very suitable and appealing acoustic for this atmospheric music i.e. a monastery. It is very calming and relaxing music and, once again, I like the marriage of the old and the new.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on August 16, 2020, 02:25:41 AM
(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61DGyhXRmmL._SR600%2C315_PIWhiteStrip%2CBottomLeft%2C0%2C35_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg) just listening to as much of La Reverdie as I can. How do they make this music? I guess I have to read more about it. It's simply magical.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 13, 2020, 08:29:49 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71e6oJqYjCL._SS500_.jpg)

Very good Machaut compilation here - intense and restrained singing, Three songs, of which two are a capella, a handful of pieces of poetry with recorder, nicely done if you can follow the French. The thing exudes amateur, in the best and original sense of the word.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Old San Antone on September 13, 2020, 09:06:29 AM
Quote from: aligreto on August 16, 2020, 01:41:09 AM

Mnemosyne [Hilliard Ensemble/Garbarek]


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71ZaGXNaFzL._AC_SL1400_.jpg)


This album is the sequel to the album Officium [which I posted recently] by the same forces. It is also, basically, the same type of fare but is something of a development upon it. If you liked Officium, you will definitely like Mnemosyne also. It is recorded in a very suitable and appealing acoustic for this atmospheric music i.e. a monastery. It is very calming and relaxing music and, once again, I like the marriage of the old and the new.

Both have been favorites of mine since they came  out.  Officium was much earlier but when I heard that they had released a follow-up, I immediately sought it out.

I almost always enjoy ECM releases, although some of the early stuff sounds somewhat dated to me now.  The amazing thing about Spotify is the editor created playlists, e.g. there are chronological playlists of the entire ECM catalog.  Wonderful stuff. The New Series sub-label focuses on classical music, and has carved a significant niche in that market, IMO.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: MusicTurner on September 13, 2020, 09:29:21 AM
Quote from: Old San Antone on September 13, 2020, 09:06:29 AM
Both have been favorites of mine since they came  out.  Officium was much earlier but when I heard that they had released a follow-up, I immediately sought it out.
(...)

Yes, both of these releases are enjoyable, also for those who, like me, aren't into listening to - or collecting - Gregorian chant otherwise. So I invested in them too.

The Clemencic CD "Mysterium" is another lovely example combining occasional instrumental presence with chant, but after all more historically correct. Currently sold very cheaply by JPC and highly recommended. Mixed choirs, a lot of solo singing too.

And, albeit concerning somewhat different genres, there's of course Savall/Figueras in "El Cant de la Sibilia I", very beautiful too (as far as I remember, Vol.II did not make quite the same impression on me), not to speak of some Hildegard of Bingen releases.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 17, 2020, 09:00:53 PM
(https://www.espaci-occitan.com/botiga/7274-thickbox_default/limpasse-merveilleuse-witiza-cd.jpg)

Bit of the shock of the new here - I think this is a very original performance style and well worth finding and listening to. Can't find anything about the background of the singers, where they're coming from - clearly part of a troubadour revival thing involving the ubiquitous Gerard Zuccheto.

I discovered it while exploring different performances of Antonello de Caserta's Ars Subtilior song Amour m'a le cœur mis
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Old San Antone on September 17, 2020, 11:43:41 PM
Quote from: aligreto on August 09, 2020, 01:59:41 AM
Officium: [Hilliard Ensemble/Garbarek]

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71tme995xXL._AC_SL1400_.jpg)   

Quote from: aligreto on August 16, 2020, 01:41:09 AM
Mnemosyne [Hilliard Ensemble/Garbarek]

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71ZaGXNaFzL._AC_SL1400_.jpg)

And there is a third and fourth - Officium Novum (2010) and Remember Me, My Dear, a 2014 live concert (2019):

(https://ecmreviews.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/officium-novum.jpg?w=1526&h=1354)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71tLCZp7HXL._SL1400_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on September 18, 2020, 01:19:44 AM
The Art of Courtly Love [Munrow]


(https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/360/0412/19/munrow-sls863-lp-stereo-uk-art_360_66bfdf952620258b8da77bc5c77f152a.jpg)


LP 2 of 3 is titled Late Fourteenth Century Avant Garde. I really like the title for its outlook and attitude. I also like the content and the treatment of it. Munrow presents the music in his own inimitable fashion that still sounds very fresh and appealing to me.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on September 18, 2020, 01:20:22 AM
Quote from: Old San Antone on September 17, 2020, 11:43:41 PM
And there is a third and fourth - Officium Novum (2010) and Remember Me, My Dear, a 2014 live concert (2019):

(https://ecmreviews.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/officium-novum.jpg?w=1526&h=1354)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71tLCZp7HXL._SL1400_.jpg)

How interesting. Thank you for posting those.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 26, 2020, 12:07:33 AM
(https://albumartcovers.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/la-chapelle-des-ducs-de-savoie-les-musiques-de-la-cour-de-savoie-portada.jpg?w=640)

QuoteAnonymous
Tres joli mois de mai
En un biau vergier

Gilles Binchois (c1400-1460)
Veni creator spiritus

Anonymous
Le mois de mai tres gracieus
J'ai mon cuer mis en une belle tour

John Dunstable (1390-1453)
Ave maris stella

Nicolas Merques (fl1433-1445)
Vous soyez la tres bien venue
Pange lingua

Anonymous
Finir voglo la vita mya

Guillaume Dufay (1397-1474)
Par le regard de vos beaux yeux

Antoine Brumel (1460-1512)
Requiem à quatre voix: Introitus

Anonymous
Or ay je perdu

Antoine de Longueval (?-1525)
Passio Domini nostri

I'm very glad to have found this one. Interesting programme including some rarities. The style and the tone is very much my cup of tea. The production is the work of Vincent Arlettaz,  a scholar, as far as I can see this is the only recording he's been involved with. His website is here

http://www.arlettaz.org/actu.htm
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 02, 2020, 10:40:56 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81FD1mdbdrL._SL1500_.jpg)

This is interesting, rare motets I think some from the Choralis Constantinus, I've only just discovered it, it has a recognisable Savall production style, but if you can put up with that then I think it's worth giving a shot for the motets at least, if you're in the mood for renaissance style.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Traverso on October 08, 2020, 08:11:18 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 02, 2020, 10:40:56 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81FD1mdbdrL._SL1500_.jpg)

This is interesting, rare motets I think some from the Choralis Constantinus, I've only just discovered it, it has a recognisable Savall production style, but if you can put up with that then I think it's worth giving a shot for the motets at least, if you're in the mood for renaissance style.

I'm thinking about purchasing these recordings,do you know them?

(https://i.postimg.cc/vTfyds1h/71jp-QCY8xj-L-AC-SL1200.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 08, 2020, 12:46:09 PM
Quote from: Traverso on October 08, 2020, 08:11:18 AM
I'm thinking about purchasing these recordings,do you know them?

(https://i.postimg.cc/vTfyds1h/71jp-QCY8xj-L-AC-SL1200.jpg)

Yes I do, you know you can hear parts of it on YouTube? It's interesting because it shows two different sides of Isaac's work with the mass - 4 and 6 voiced settings. Organ in alternatim. Good sound, passionate performances, chamber style.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 09, 2020, 05:01:23 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 08, 2020, 12:46:09 PM
Yes I do, you know you can hear parts of it on YouTube? It's interesting because it shows two different sides of Isaac's work with the mass - 4 and 6 voiced settings. Organ in alternatim. Good sound, passionate performances, chamber style.

Listening to the 6 voice mass this morning, the sheer amount of alternatim is really strange to hear - they sing for a minute, then organ for a minute, then another minute of singing, then another minute of organ . . . I wonder if this is the origin of Frescobaldi's toccatas, with their stop-go sections. I have another CD of an Isaac mass with the same alternatim approach, with a very different singing style, much more sensual. Both are good to hear.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/_ftGnfd3azROveVhH-0OFk1cHFQD94IBhu-WTDLljYW5M5qLyCMp177NAVR7za7ohcSey8C8AK42YlZ44ueWIgtj5_riwfV7wvHeuHTSlH908gcqd5_s71Bnwz2P3kBmAl85GRoc)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on October 09, 2020, 02:14:43 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 09, 2020, 05:01:23 AM
Listening to the 6 voice mass this morning, the sheer amount of alternatim is really strange to hear - they sing for a minute, then organ for a minute, then another minute of singing, then another minute of organ . . . I wonder if this is the origin of Frescobaldi's toccatas, with their stop-go sections.

Fiori musicali, but not the toccatas.

Quote from: Mandryka on October 09, 2020, 05:01:23 AM
I have another CD of an Isaac mass with the same alternatim approach, with a very different singing style, much more sensual. Both are good to hear.

Which is the other one?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 09, 2020, 08:19:14 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on October 09, 2020, 02:14:43 PM

Which is the other one?

The one in the picture, this

http://www.cantusmodalis.org/cd-s

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/missae-paschalis-orgelverse/hnum/5383898
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on October 10, 2020, 02:09:56 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 09, 2020, 08:19:14 PM
The one in the picture, this

http://www.cantusmodalis.org/cd-s

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/missae-paschalis-orgelverse/hnum/5383898

Thanks. Sorry, I got you wrong, thinking that the Stewart CD was the first one, but now I see, that you meant the Michael Procter twofer, not realizing that it contains a mass too. I own the Stewart CD already, exquisite organ playing I think.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 10, 2020, 05:59:57 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on October 10, 2020, 02:09:56 AM
Thanks. Sorry, I got you wrong, thinking that the Stewart CD was the first one, but now I see, that you meant the Michael Procter twofer, not realizing that it contains a mass too. I own the Stewart CD already, exquisite organ playing I think.

Yes, fabulous organ playing and a beautiful solo rendition of the Easter chorale at the end.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Old San Antone on October 11, 2020, 07:35:15 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/-lNaXMBturI

Riccardo Cuor di Leone e Blondel de Nesle

Blondel de Nesle:
L'amours dont sui espris - Ensemble für frühe Musik Augsburg: Amours & Désirs
Onques maiz nus hom ne chanta - Sequentia: Love Songs In The Middle Ages
A L'Entrant D'Este - Graham Derrick, Estampie: Under the Greenwood Tree
Cuers Desirous Apaie - New Orleans Musica da Camera: The Cross of Red

Riccardo Cuor di Leone:
Ja nuns hons pris - Modo Antiquo & Bettina Hoffmann: Secular Songs & Dance From the Middle Ages
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 11, 2020, 09:55:47 AM
Quote from: Old San Antone on October 11, 2020, 07:35:15 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/-lNaXMBturI

Riccardo Cuor di Leone e Blondel de Nesle

Blondel de Nesle:
L'amours dont sui espris - Ensemble für frühe Musik Augsburg: Amours & Désirs
Onques maiz nus hom ne chanta - Sequentia: Love Songs In The Middle Ages
A L'Entrant D'Este - Graham Derrick, Estampie: Under the Greenwood Tree
Cuers Desirous Apaie - New Orleans Musica da Camera: The Cross of Red

Riccardo Cuor di Leone:
Ja nuns hons pris - Modo Antiquo & Bettina Hoffmann: Secular Songs & Dance From the Middle Ages

I enjoyed the Graham Derrick track the most from that bunch - though I haven't listened to the one with Modo Antiquo. The Derrick CD is a good thing to explore, beautiful singing I think, and a refined conception of the music.  I bet it was a vanity publication through Naxos, you can sense the seriousness of the artists, the commitment.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Old San Antone on October 11, 2020, 12:52:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/v/EGtEdcb_Zeo

Sumer diner suzzen wunne · Augsburg Early Music Ensemble
Vocal Music (German Courtly Song) - Neidhart Von Reuental / Monch Von Salzburg / Oswald Von Wolkenstein

I haven't delved very much into German Medieval music.  Some of this stuff is really nice.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on October 12, 2020, 12:06:07 AM
Tonight dear EMC early music club, I'm listening to superb & splendid voice of Gregorian music from my 1951 like mint LP : Chants Grégorien sur decca qui est très bon Évidament - translation I'm listening to tree LP of different era oof making Gregorian, the second is my deutsche Gramophone 1977 my Third is my Philips 1983 LP of Gregorian offering in LP media wow and to think it cost me 2.99 mint well i clean it up whit cleaner  home made dose the job, I all ready said I engineer one good cleaner neato.

What are your favorite early LP of Gregorian music to date in LP or new 2020 in CD ? double questions?

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 12, 2020, 07:01:46 PM
Quote from: deprofundis on October 12, 2020, 12:06:07 AM

What are your favorite early LP of Gregorian music to date in LP or new 2020 in CD ? double questions?

This

(https://img.discogs.com/yQ5KmQNwzfDl_9Vrvj1C_27FtVE=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-13413579-1553730074-9296.jpeg.jpg)


https://www.discogs.com/Dominique-Vellard-Emmanuel-Bonnardot-Veritas-Mea-Chant-Gr%C3%A9gorien/release/13413579

PM me if you want the transfers.

I'm also keen on the old recordings made by Godehard Joppich, many if not all have been transferred.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 12, 2020, 07:07:08 PM
Quote from: Old San Antone on October 11, 2020, 12:52:01 PM

I haven't delved very much into German Medieval music.  Some of this stuff is really nice.

Yes it is, look out for Susanne Lutzenberger's recordings with Per Sonat, for example. I much prefer these German composers to the troubadours.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Old San Antone on October 12, 2020, 08:07:45 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 12, 2020, 07:07:08 PM
Yes it is, look out for Susanne Lutzenberger's recordings with Per Sonat, for example. I much prefer these German composers to the troubadours.

You must mean Sabine Lutzenberger   ;)    small typo - but I found her, and thanks.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 13, 2020, 08:32:43 AM
Quote from: Old San Antone on October 12, 2020, 08:07:45 PM
You must mean Sabine Lutzenberger   ;)    small typo - but I found her, and thanks.

Yes, sorry about that. A male voice I like in this stuff is Eberhard Kummer. Rene Zosso too -- though his recordings may be hard to find.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on October 22, 2020, 09:17:43 AM
Ensemble of early music that were revelation for you, well Claritas for Marenzio and Gesualdo  make an excellent job, look Marenzio the Salve Regina is so surreal, and the ensemble  Rossoporpora is my discovery on Ricercar division Arcana, it made me like  Luca Marenzio even more than before  gorgeous CD  L'amoroso & Crudo Stile, Mandryka have you heard this friend cheers from montreal and salute !

8)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: cheregi on October 28, 2020, 09:07:03 PM
Quote from: deprofundis on October 22, 2020, 09:17:43 AM
Ensemble of early music that were revelation for you, well Claritas for Marenzio and Gesualdo  make an excellent job, look Marenzio the Salve Regina is so surreal, and the ensemble  Rossoporpora is my discovery on Ricercar division Arcana, it made me like  Luca Marenzio even more than before  gorgeous CD  L'amoroso & Crudo Stile, Mandryka have you heard this friend cheers from montreal and salute !

8)

The L'amoroso & Crudo Stile CD really blew my mind, elevates Marenzio to a top 5 composer for me. I'm looking forward to more from the same group.

Also, is anyone in here familiar with Ensemble Cappella Vocal, the rather absurdly-named Japanese group led by Tetsuro Hantai? Among other things, they have recorded almost every Josquin mass according to Rebecca Stewart's modal singing principles, which given the relative dearth of recordings in that style makes this a real treasure trove (even for someone like me who prefers motets to masses and Ockeghem to Josquin). I just discovered this and needed somewhere to share my excitement!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 29, 2020, 08:24:32 AM
Quote from: cheregi on October 28, 2020, 09:07:03 PM
The L'amoroso & Crudo Stile CD really blew my mind, elevates Marenzio to a top 5 composer for me. I'm looking forward to more from the same group.

Also, is anyone in here familiar with Ensemble Cappella Vocal, the rather absurdly-named Japanese group led by Tetsuro Hantai?

Tetsuro Hanai, not Hantai. Yes I have them singing Machaut. It is indeed modal singing. I'd like to hear the Josquin but have never managed to find it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: cheregi on October 29, 2020, 07:47:24 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 29, 2020, 08:24:32 AM
Tetsuro Hanai, not Hantai. Yes I have them singing Machaut. It is indeed modal singing. I'd like to hear the Josquin but have never managed to find it.

Thank you for the correction, that does seem like an especially important distinction... I think I actually had the name of harpsichordist Pierre Hantaï floating around in my head.

I believe most of the CDs can be ordered outside Japan from this website http://www.regulus-classics.com/en/albums_regulus.html#vocal_ensemble_cappella (http://www.regulus-classics.com/en/albums_regulus.html#vocal_ensemble_cappella) - as soon as I have a more permanent address (I'm currently traveling for an extended period of time) I intend to put in an order, and of course I'll be happy to share the files too.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Old San Antone on October 31, 2020, 04:27:55 AM
Hyperion's November list includes several early music recordings:

Sacred treasures of Christmas
T‎HE LONDON ORATORY SCHOLA CANTORUM
C‎HARLES COLE conductor

A celebration of Christmas from the Nativity through to Candlemas, in music from across sixteenth-century Europe: Renaissance polyphony at its finest.

Sacred motets from the Golden Age
of Spanish polyphony
Sacred treasures of Spain
T‎HE LONDON ORATORY SCHOLA CANTORUM
C‎HARLES COLE conductor

Music to illustrate the Golden Age: a selection of motets from sixteenth-century Spain culminating in Alonso Lobo's great funerary ode for Philip II, Versa est in luctum.

J‎osquin des Prez
Missa Hercules Dux Ferrarie, Missa D'ung aultre amer & Missa Faysant regretz
T‎HE TALLIS SCHOLARS
P‎ETER PHILLIPS conductor

'With this ninth and final release in our Josquin Mass cycle we come to three of his greatest works. Although all three Masses come roughly from his early middle age, together they form a perfect showcase for a genius who felt challenged to make each setting different.' (Peter Phillips)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Biffo on October 31, 2020, 06:01:55 AM
Quote from: Old San Antone on October 31, 2020, 04:27:55 AM
Hyperion's November list includes several early music recordings:

Sacred treasures of Christmas
T‎HE LONDON ORATORY SCHOLA CANTORUM
C‎HARLES COLE conductor

A celebration of Christmas from the Nativity through to Candlemas, in music from across sixteenth-century Europe: Renaissance polyphony at its finest.

Sacred motets from the Golden Age
of Spanish polyphony
Sacred treasures of Spain
T‎HE LONDON ORATORY SCHOLA CANTORUM
C‎HARLES COLE conductor

Music to illustrate the Golden Age: a selection of motets from sixteenth-century Spain culminating in Alonso Lobo's great funerary ode for Philip II, Versa est in luctum.

J‎osquin des Prez
Missa Hercules Dux Ferrarie, Missa D'ung aultre amer & Missa Faysant regretz
T‎HE TALLIS SCHOLARS
P‎ETER PHILLIPS conductor

'With this ninth and final release in our Josquin Mass cycle we come to three of his greatest works. Although all three Masses come roughly from his early middle age, together they form a perfect showcase for a genius who felt challenged to make each setting different.' (Peter Phillips)

I bought the latter two of those issues yesterday and have started to work my way through them - so far the Missa Hecules etc and the works by Guerrero. Both albums are beautifully sung though OVPP enthusiasts might find the London Oratory Schola Cantorum rather too opulent.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on November 06, 2020, 01:02:20 PM
First I tought Armenian music most have been interesting old armenian music I found something but it was drab and lifeless all hompe were gone until I found this album Voice of Armenian : Sacred and Secular music

I loved it so far captivating,  pretty, soulful  everything this is awesome.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on November 07, 2020, 09:33:29 PM
First I had the enigmatic Ossesso by this ensemble quite mystifing trip I would agree and say.!

[asin]B07KZG7CZG[/asin]

Than I discover this ensemble add at least 2two more recordings, them being the following there fabulous.

Chanson a boire et a danser- airs de cours ,splendid stuff I tell ya folk at home.  :P c'est comme un beignet fourré a la crême Chantilly mais en mieux (blague)

[asin]B08DBNH58G[/asin]

TThe other one deal whit funny song seculary song Rions Noir.

Excellent stuff ,very  very recommended more so mandatory.  :P ;D

[asin]B07CQL33SY[/asin]

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 15, 2020, 05:40:49 AM
Quote from: Old San Antone on October 11, 2020, 07:35:15 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/-lNaXMBturI

Riccardo Cuor di Leone e Blondel de Nesle

Blondel de Nesle:
L'amours dont sui espris - Ensemble für frühe Musik Augsburg: Amours & Désirs
Onques maiz nus hom ne chanta - Sequentia: Love Songs In The Middle Ages
A L'Entrant D'Este - Graham Derrick, Estampie: Under the Greenwood Tree
Cuers Desirous Apaie - New Orleans Musica da Camera: The Cross of Red

Riccardo Cuor di Leone:
Ja nuns hons pris - Modo Antiquo & Bettina Hoffmann: Secular Songs & Dance From the Middle Ages
Beautiful!  I have it on now....loved the first track so am listening to it further (or was, until I tried to quote the posting to reply!).  How did you happen to come across this compilation?

PD
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Old San Antone on November 15, 2020, 05:00:34 PM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 15, 2020, 05:40:49 AM
Beautiful!  I have it on now....loved the first track so am listening to it further (or was, until I tried to quote the posting to reply!).  How did you happen to come across this compilation?

PD

It was something that popped up on YouTube based on my viewing history - I listen to the music of the troubadours and trouvères quite often. I am glad you enjoyed it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 11, 2020, 01:11:41 AM
Vocal Ensemble Cappella are directly influenced by Rebecca Stewart's Modal Singing,  and they are maybe the best example of that style practising today. They are active in Japan, and have some recordings, all of which are hard to get here -- I have their Machaut but nothing else. This is a live performance, with propers, of a mass by Walter Frye. I think it is exceptional.

https://www.youtube.com/v/GCcUQi4cDpk&ab_channel=fonsfloris

and Josquin's Pange Lingua, in an empty Japanese church while COVID was ravaging the country

https://www.youtube.com/v/VT8muEJP8D0&ab_channel=fonsfloris


(oooo -- the Josquin's just gone all spiritual in the Gloria!)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on December 11, 2020, 01:43:02 AM
Dear Mandryka I am here to inform you , that I order an old Pierre de Manchicourt recorded in France in 1957, that a good fine year for petrol value, but anyway,it feature Josquin Behemot of a motet miserere  of 20 minutes and an entire obscure masse which never saw the day after, I tell you cher monsieur je vous en pris ne negligé pas les vieux disques ont une âme, this missa has sUch climax cold  and sorrowfull , there is an American pressing of 1970 but pick up the original one
yeah  8)

Allez Mandryka j'ai attraper du gros gibier miam ce vinyl c'est mon cadeau de noel.

A oui treve de paresse, l'abum  le titre :

                   Pierre de Manchicourt
         Deprez Miserere dei

         Pierre de Manchourt Missa Quo Abiit dilectus
         Tuus a holy grail to be a most own.



Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on December 17, 2020, 09:44:29 PM
Carmina Predulcia on Naxos ensemble Almara, Music From The Schedel Songbook, nothing bad to say about this purchase , but darn it's short, it'S only 36.47 minutes and Naxos sell it at a full price, they could had included another songbook I just don't, but beside this detail, a huge one, I am satisfied whit the result German songs hmm tasty  ;D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on December 30, 2020, 12:25:25 PM
 ;D Hello folks , please let me post on this separately because there is an issue here , what do we barely know is what happen in transitional era in between Gregorian an Ars vetus early ''deboire'', sorry I will says it in french because I might get lost in translation let's clarified...

Cher ami(e)s ils ya une zone tampon en plein centre ouu avant Les Ars Vetus qui n'est pas tout a faits des chants Gregorian et ppeenche plus vers le tout debut des Arts vetus hors ont ne sais quedale sur les compositeur du 11(FIN)12(DEBUT) siecle disont cette époque, certains manuscript de chanson seculaire doivent exister ou mais mélanger unpeu aux Gregorian sans en etre biensur en outre cela me semble mysterieux, les historienns ont t'il perdu des documents.

In English I want to know the foggy era(1050--1150) between  Gregorien and ars vetus, mysterious and enigmatic composer I am nerding out on 12th century and also end of 11 century. So what historian think of this era, oddity music that just sound  let's says bizarre for it's era an highly innovative, or foreign Europa perfume music.

I thank you all and want to apologize again and again and again to people may have had offended or disapproved or whatever I hope you understand, I am human if I falter If I was mean or your perceived me as a bad guy, a nasty person, a loose canon, am working on it since  sometime rarely post but when posting something interesting, I hope to God it get publish. So in the end I wish an awesome new year eve to everyone, even my worst enemy If I have any or my worst hater, so all have been said goodbye take care.   ;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 30, 2020, 07:30:02 PM
Aren't elaborate tropes the "zone tampon" you're looking for? Listen for example to the performances from The Winchester Troper on the Schola Gregoriana of Cambridge CD. I think these composers are all anonymous.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on December 30, 2020, 08:53:47 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 30, 2020, 07:30:02 PM
Aren't elaborate tropes the "zone tampon" you're looking for? Listen for example to the performances from The Winchester Troper on the Schola Gregoriana of Cambridge CD. I think these composers are all anonymous.
Hello dear Mandryka, yes this is something worth checking out, thanks a lot friend
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on January 03, 2021, 08:58:51 PM
Here what I had to offer to this post, how about we speak Mare Balticum serie vol 1-3.

What your favorite music of ancient lore Denmark (only have this in download) flac

The second is very interesting since I have it in CD medieval Finland and Sweden vol.2

Vol.3 is about a composer name Wizlav von Rugen, his style remind me of a continuation of Von Reutal, thee logical step.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 05, 2021, 04:50:14 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on January 03, 2021, 08:58:51 PM


Vol.3 is about a composer name Wizlav von Rugen, his style remind me of a continuation of Von Reutal, thee logical step.

Yes, a good thought, maybe that's what attracted Marc Lewon -- given that he has made such an excellent Neidhart CD. I must say that I think he is in very fine voice on that Wizlav von Rugen recording.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on January 10, 2021, 09:59:01 PM
Ah...blast just ffound a CD I had by Manfred Cordes and Is wonderful Weser-Renaissance ensemble, when purchasing this at firstt, was skeptical, no because it was composer of poland but because they were nobody to me did not knew them...did not pay much attention tto this CPO release until now, the name of album is :Viirgo Prudentissima- adooration oof the virgin, Marry at the Polish Court, it feature the works of: Marcin Mielczewski, Adam Jarzebski, Mikolaj Zielensky ffor a total of almost 70 minutes counting.

Great Job CPO all musician  are born in mid 17th century. this release a triump.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on January 11, 2021, 04:49:36 PM
Entering the bold & colorful world of SOLAGE, here the place to start, Ensemble Gothic Voice, name of the album: The Unknow Lovers songs by Solage and Machaut.

This feature most Solage song's if your starving for more Solage I would warmly subject Solage acoustic guitar rendition and semi acoustic, profige Noel Aktchoté done an album pretty, magical, it capture de sspirit of Solage music, very space in way or transcandent!

Another name Batiste Romain and his ensemble le mirroir de la musique was to me logical step after Solage, both are innovative, both share the same kind of chromatism of ancient lore, Lymburgia's music was insightful.
Music of a curious perfume, never seen afterrr Solage and Lymburgia iiss reminescent of Solage, like if he heard his music or music of his kinds.

Ars Subtilior was medieval music third era the most flamboyant extremelly rich in sounds...
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 12, 2021, 01:02:09 AM
For a more sensual approach to Solage than Gothic Voices, try Tetraktys.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on January 17, 2021, 10:06:19 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 12, 2021, 01:02:09 AM
For a more sensual approach to Solage than Gothic Voices, try Tetraktys.

Dear Mandryka I am aware of ensemble Tetraktys , they made incredible records , performance, my eloges goes to them and there skill there Mattheo de Perugia was divine a blessing to my ears.

Speaking of similar subject Mandryka you got to hear the following  Record my definitive Peter Abélard album of all time Herald label tell me what you think to you preffered Bayard Disques  for this composer or Herald label  effort fform U.K IS A '' tour de force'', what grab ya mMandryka among Pierre Abélard  Perhaps  Reflexe Dissk German import of Peter Ebelard in vinyl media have this , smokin awesome
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on March 20, 2021, 01:07:06 AM
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODg3MDE3NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MTM0ODIyNDV9)

OVPP all male, the central early music pieces are  by Compère (officium di cruce) and Willaert (Pater Noster.) All seems jolly good - if it were a concert you wouldn't regret going.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on March 20, 2021, 03:50:58 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 20, 2021, 01:07:06 AM
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODg3MDE3NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MTM0ODIyNDV9)

OVPP all male, the central early music pieces are  by Compère (officium di cruce) and Willaert (Pater Noster.) All seems jolly good - if it were a concert you wouldn't regret going.

Thanks for sharing Mandryka sound amazing, I trust BIS for quality offering, have a nice day buddy.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Old San Antone on March 20, 2021, 04:18:08 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on March 20, 2021, 01:07:06 AM
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODg3MDE3NC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MTM0ODIyNDV9)

OVPP all male, the central early music pieces are  by Compère (officium di cruce) and Willaert (Pater Noster.) All seems jolly good - if it were a concert you wouldn't regret going.

I've heard and been impressed by other records by New York Polyphony.  I'll try to find this one on Spotify.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on March 28, 2021, 09:12:07 AM
Due for release end of May:

(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571283371.png)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Artem on April 10, 2021, 05:08:37 AM
Exceptional disk. Superb performance from the Hilliard Ensemble.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71-p-PaubSL._SX522_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on April 10, 2021, 09:33:34 AM
Quote from: Artem on April 10, 2021, 05:08:37 AM
Exceptional disk. Superb performance from the Hilliard Ensemble.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71-p-PaubSL._SX522_.jpg)

I agree it is outstanding. Serious music, and the Hilliards sing it with real intense involvement.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on April 10, 2021, 12:04:52 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on April 10, 2021, 09:33:34 AM
I agree it is outstanding. Serious music, and the Hilliards sing it with real intense involvement.

Though listening to it again I want to say how much I prefer the motets to the mass.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on April 25, 2021, 12:04:01 AM
Quote from: Que on April 23, 2021, 11:05:23 PM
Morning listening (on Spotify):

(https://static.fnac-static.com/multimedia/Images/FR/NR/47/68/cc/13396039/1540-1/tsp20210328163037/Reine-du-ciel-mia-ave-regina-celorum.jpg)

PS I kind of expected to be blown away by this recording, but I'm not.... ::)

Is it because of the largish ensemble with four tenors? The "pretty" smoothness, sometimes glossing over accents & details? I'm not sure .... this deserves another (comparative) listen some other time.
This mass has also been recorded by Cut Circle/ Rodin, Cantica Symphonia/Boeke, Maletto and an older recording by Dominique Vellard.

Comments by Todd McComb from medieval.org:

When a recent correspondent let me know about the new Diabolus in Musica Reine du Ciel album, centered on Dufay's Missa Ave Regina Celorum, I was excited: After all, recent momentum — especially after the amazing new Ockeghem album just reviewed — had me anticipating a great reading. Moreover, Diabolus in Musica has recorded Dufay albums already (including the Missa Se la face ay pale), plus their recent Requiem disc (with its Ockeghem cycle from around the same time period) was quite coherent.... Yet despite adding Reine du Ciel promptly to my personal list, I guess I was still disappointed: In some sense, this entry is then a reflection on that situation, basically that a new album could immediately include the most appealing rendition of a significant work & still be disappointing.... But I guess that's always a possibility in the world of historical recreation! And that this interpretation involves significant improvements to both prior concepts & technique seems obvious enough, but after a strong reading of the opening plainchant, the central polytextual motet immediately comes off relatively timidly & even as a little awkward (versus e.g. its sometimes dance-like passagework).... Some of this might have to do with the part doubling & so coordination, defended almost defiantly by Guerber in the brief discussion, but mostly I think the ensemble just didn't spend as much time rehearsing and/or performing the piece in public before recording. If the situation is really as simple as that, I suppose it's not nearly among the top covid tragedies, but still unfortunate.... Oh well. But then, per the contradictory tenor of this entry, it's nonetheless the best recorded performance we have available, so I should still celebrate, right!?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on April 25, 2021, 12:11:06 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on April 03, 2021, 06:16:52 PM
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODg5MzYxNC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MTUyMjIyODB9)

Here an interesting tread, your own personal view on new not released yet...  :P

This is huge folks, for admirer of Johannes Ockeghem achievements, Raum Klang(German Label of quality), that would value so much so far and cherish there records.

This will be release April 16 in few days, just can't wait for this album, the great Masses, wow I'm tripping now:Missa Prolationum, Has a fan of Ockeghem, I would not missed out on!, this album, order this splendid recording, Missa Prolationum is equal in my mind to the beauty of Missa Caput of his
.

This will perhaps competed whit The sound and The fury ensemble(From Austria).This is so telling folks, this album scream out loud buy me, you wont regret it.
[...]

I'm a bit a zealot & proselyte and ultimately compelled to talk about the first album the Ockeghem Missa Prolationum, am all ready very exited about this release, whiteout fault, thus said, I'm expecting this and have high expectancy to listening to them!!!

Marvelous recording up a head!!!!

;D

Todd's comments:

And it's not as long as many releases in this field, but the new Ockeghem album by the new vocal quartet "L'ultima parola" made an instant impression: This is just a great recording of great music & was promptly added to my personal list. (There's been a delay in writing this discussion only because I was waiting for the physical CD to arrive from Germany, so that I could read the booklet... which doesn't really discuss the performance much anyway. Actually, the essay on Ockeghem sounds similar to things I was writing in the 1990s, so that's a little eerie....) Obviously I hope this group continues to record more music from the 15th century (as appears to be their focus), and I mostly have raves. If I'm to be critical, as noted in the linked discussion, having a woman sing the top line isn't historical, but everything works so well here, it doesn't seem like an issue. What else? I think my biggest gripe is actually the way the booklet falls right out of the digipak... this is something we can't get right in 2021? (Packaging generally remains a disaster in all areas of life, but I digress....) There's also an issue of interpretive slowness, which suggests clichés of respect, but these four singers hold their tone so well, there aren't musical issues with it.... Their clarity is great in general. And the polish is amazing for a first album! This is a great example of 15th century vocal virtuosity in general, not to mention such great music from a more technical perspective — and sung basically without compromises.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on April 30, 2021, 08:37:39 AM
Sollazzo Ensemble do Landini (Warning: it's very good.)


https://www.youtube.com/v/9UlAMQeO1WY

https://www.youtube.com/v/IUxgdz719Rk

They're in the middle of recording Leuven Chansonnier II.

When will unmasked European early festivals start again?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Undersea on May 17, 2021, 12:50:40 PM
Been on an Early Music bender the last few weeks - I opened my wallet (maybe a little too much :-[) for some new recording to add to my collection:


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81Mf%2BCP9QIL._SL1425_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81k8GhH09%2BL._SL1454_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81hpEaomEuL._SL1425_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/710NmCpGO2L._SL1500_.jpg)


Hat-tip to Que for the Petrus Alamire


Also:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71ah9wrQNsL._SL1223_.jpg)


Some old-school Eton Choirbook...


Thats it for the moment - I like posting lots of pictures... :)

Comments positive and negative welcomed.

Cheers!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on June 06, 2021, 06:42:40 PM
Folks I will be listening to some Josquin IL Prato, giving a chance to Dominique Visse Ensemble whit is seventh book, on RICERCARE label, and also on same label the  superb Adieu mes Amour, now that well done, and perhaps Josquino IL Prato, Josquin in Flemish become Yo- J, Josquin Desprez , maybe also the very old 1950 release of  Lassus lament and Josquin Miserere, wanna know why, because ordering lately a Josquin Desprez, by a godfather  of a conductor Bruno Turner Missa L'homme armé this is gonna be super, LP, mighty vinyl, 1978 brewed on Archive Production, Ironically he was the first to introduced me to Lassus music and many other, I am thankfull, bow down  in front of him and called him a great master, no wonder Beauty Farm made a special Honorific album of Palestrina for his 90'' birthday,, I agree fully whit FRA BERNARDO.

Go lots of music coming my way in CD too, Sigismondo D'India , Manuel Cardoso, quite frankly this album is perhaps on of the best interpretation and performance of Tallis Scholars I hail them and put them on podium for this release alone, this is telling.

Expecting also Missa In Illo Tempore on Henry Eight, what a Missa of divine proportion, Baptiste Romain another great director and visionary, love his work a lot, have them all an order: The Birth of the Violin and Lira Sura, two exceptionally good album in CD, sir Baptiste Romain, got to confess, had become a fanboy of Le Mirroir DE Music ensemble  fantastic epic realease, stunning and Captivating, Ensemble Jachet DE mantoue whit two release , Jachet DE Mantoue Missa Ancor Che col partire a great favorite, paid 45 euro for it, ish but I don't regret a thing and also same ensemble English composer Tallis and etc ,Should be prepared to be flabbergast, strap on thought Deprofundis, this most be one hell of a ride,  splemdissimo.

And that about it anyone want to comment my purchased hmm?

Have a nice day I am tired goodnight for me, me an a friend a good friend drank some GRAND MARNIER  my favorite  strong liquor this stuff  is awesome felt in love whit it long time ago.  8)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 07, 2021, 09:15:04 AM
Quote from: Que on March 28, 2021, 09:12:07 AM
Due for release end of May:

(https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/150dpi/034571283371.png)

Anyone heard it?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 17, 2021, 12:59:44 PM
(https://www.cappellapratensis.nl/wp-content/uploads/1463735432-scaled.jpg)

I know someone who thinks this is their best recording, and though I wouldn't agree because of my penchant for Rebecca Stewart, the Mouton therein is certainly very fine.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 02, 2021, 12:33:35 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 26, 2021, 05:58:15 AM
(https://storage.highresaudio.com/web/imgcache/6fe40b50f9f5afd27c1c1fb563905dc7/85eb8b-lechansonn-preview-m3_550x550.jpg)


https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8916291--le-chansonnier-de-bayeux

On a good hi fi, when you're in the mood, this is quite entertaining. It is well recorded, I never realised what a characterful voice Brigitte Lesne has - full of colour. Pierre Boragano is a specialist in early wind instruments, and especially when he plays the bagpipes, the sound is very gripping. But even with a recorder he overblows beautifully and it makes a great sound on the disc. There's nothing earth shattering here, nothing unforgettable, listening to it is a bit like going to a fun concert, that's all.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 16, 2021, 12:20:18 PM
https://www.academia.edu/18608151/Thomas_Binkley_and_the_Studio_der_Fru_hen_Musik_challenging_the_myth_of_Westernness_

Yri, Kirsten. 'Thomas Binkley and the Studio der Frühen Musik: Challenging "the Myth of Westernness"', Early Music 38, no. 2 (2010): 273–80.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 22, 2021, 01:11:57 PM
(https://img.discogs.com/53d8TaebTVvpf6S4heJ5hrxP6ME=/fit-in/600x547/filters:strip_icc():format(webp):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5703186-1410426056-7677.jpeg.jpg)

There's an astonishing thing on this - excommunicatio leonis papae. The whole CD is full of good things! The music and style reminds me of Peres's Templars CD.

It also has one of the best solo unaccompanied monophonic songs I've ever heard, canticum trium puerorum. I must find out who's singing it and listen to everything else he's recorded. Experience has taught me that it ain't easy to make 10 minutes of monophony in Latin interesting to hear.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on July 22, 2021, 01:57:30 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 22, 2021, 01:11:57 PM
(https://img.discogs.com/53d8TaebTVvpf6S4heJ5hrxP6ME=/fit-in/600x547/filters:strip_icc():format(webp):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5703186-1410426056-7677.jpeg.jpg)

It also has one of the best solo unaccompanied monophonic songs I've ever heard, canticum trium puerorum. I must find out who's singing it and listen to everything else he's recorded.

Presto Classic says that the singer(s?) for this piece are  Branislav Rakić and Michael Loughlin Smith.

They offer it as download, unfortunately without booklet.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on July 22, 2021, 02:02:23 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 22, 2021, 01:57:30 PM
Presto Classic says that the singer(s?) for this piece are  Branislav Rakić and Michael Loughlin Smith.

They offer it as download, unfortunately without booklet.

I just bookmarked it on Spotify.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 04, 2021, 12:31:19 AM
Wili Apel's Keyboard music before 1700 available for free online here

https://archive.org/details/historyofkeyboar00will/page/n1/mode/2up
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Trazom H Cab on August 07, 2021, 09:53:24 AM
(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/f2/ce/ab/f2ceabee14d089940d06508c5d72bb68.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/a1/39/3c/a1393ce42100b6d8f574f3b2a9b625a5.jpg)

I own a few pieces of medieval/renaissance sheet music.  This is one of them.  These aren't facsimiles although I do have facsimile pieces as well.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on August 09, 2021, 03:37:15 AM
Yes ever before and after I got  order Adam de La Halle D'amoureus cuer voel Chanter Les Jardins de Courtoisie LP.

This is not about ''Les Jeux de Robin & Marion'' ,
nope it's is Chanson  or Motets, very nice recording, the sound of it in vynil is huge I tell yah, a holy Grail to be, the sleeve is superbe, the LP is Thick  :P

I swear since I heard a lot of Adam DE la Halle, that this recording is the best of the best ever, I just order this today...

What an incredible rare LP, you don't know unless you heard it on youtube, I had it digital copy, now I'm gonna have it analogue oh woaw, super.

But perhaps I don't  talk about it more in depth, if you like ancient lore music you need this, trust me.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 10, 2021, 06:36:12 AM
Quote from: Trazom H Cab on August 07, 2021, 09:53:24 AM
(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/f2/ce/ab/f2ceabee14d089940d06508c5d72bb68.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/a1/39/3c/a1393ce42100b6d8f574f3b2a9b625a5.jpg)

I own a few pieces of medieval/renaissance sheet music.  This is one of them.  These aren't facsimiles although I do have facsimile pieces as well.

If you want to find out what they are I'd contact Dominique Gatté at this website


https://gregorian-chant.ning.com/
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on August 12, 2021, 06:24:21 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/919rz-SCdwL._SY500_.jpg)

release 1960 quite great

(https://img.discogs.com/b5SuEUxNfy6Rp6KNxdeA0R1Ms04=/fit-in/600x602/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8556161-1463967558-1050.jpeg.jpg)

with madrigalist unknow to me, sweet.

(https://img.discogs.com/USw90_-7P2laD54iIfptDW58pDk=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-4848126-1377382345-7255.jpeg.jpg)


(https://img.discogs.com/1kIEHPRBO9O3Pefk9zc1dX6VZss=/fit-in/600x571/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8513882-1463148675-9478.jpeg.jpg)


(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk3ODMwNi4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MjM5Mjc3MjV9)


(https://img.discogs.com/SRHTJFISEoXnuO7zx7aN4f5aDXM=/fit-in/600x606/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-9791147-1486382864-3201.jpeg.jpg)

(https://img.discogs.com/Is2s5zeMZZbNPrJFBaTvbXGVdQU=/fit-in/600x569/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10662147-1501928158-5296.jpeg.jpg)


(https://img.discogs.com/vTTvi4SgCCKekKa44xwK9fzXTVY=/fit-in/331x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2058963-1261498264.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 12, 2021, 08:19:29 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on August 12, 2021, 06:24:21 AM

[asin]Luca Marenzio ensemble Italian Madrigals LP[  /asin] whit madrigalist unknow to me, sweet.



https://www.youtube.com/v/P6TG_AY9_es&list=PLq7nv1joJPpVHNgUMYBfj4QQuBGIymDbc&ab_channel=EnsembleLucaMarenzio%2CFrancoMariaSaraceni-Topic

It is very good -- all on spotify -- even Que's heart will melt.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 12, 2021, 08:28:42 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on August 12, 2021, 06:24:21 AM


[asin]Adam DE la Halle , zig zag label 2007 CD

Thank you for mentioning this interesting looking CD. I shall listen to it tonight.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on August 13, 2021, 11:47:43 AM
I would like to point out I received
Spanish Renaissance music and it's mondo excellentissimo, super F good, true  & genuine, very good LP DECCA gold serie

8)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on August 14, 2021, 03:13:53 AM
What about music of Huguenots protestant French, we spoken of Claude Goudimal, whom is fairly said an awesome composer, CLaude LE Jeune, and Pascal L'escotart, Ludus Modalis did gem whit these  three composer.

I really like these record , Ludus Modalis is splendid ensemble, also for Guillaume Costeley , on of the best composer of his time.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 15, 2021, 12:24:24 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on August 12, 2021, 06:24:21 AM


(https://img.discogs.com/vTTvi4SgCCKekKa44xwK9fzXTVY=/fit-in/331x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2058963-1261498264.jpeg.jpg)



The instrumental contribution in this is very good, like what Thomas Binkley used to do, but better! The CD revealed to me the variety of music attributed to De La Halle, from jaunty to languid, to cool and voluptuous. It is an outstanding album, and I look forward to exploring the other things that Les Jardins de Courtoisie have done.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on August 15, 2021, 01:48:55 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 15, 2021, 12:24:24 AM
The instrumental contribution in this is very good, like what Thomas Binkley used to do, but better! The CD revealed to me the variety of music attributed to De La Halle, from jaunty to languid, to cool and voluptuous. It is an outstanding album, and I look forward to exploring the other things that Les Jardins de Courtoisie have done.

Well said sir, it's indeed an outstanding album, very top notch, may I dare say classy
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on August 15, 2021, 09:12:29 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BgjaEEhqL._SX355_.jpg)
This may be of interest. I don't know what a Clavisimbalum is so don't ask me :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on August 16, 2021, 02:07:15 PM
Quote from: milk on August 15, 2021, 09:12:29 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BgjaEEhqL._SX355_.jpg)
This may be of interest. I don't know what a Clavisimbalum is so don't ask me :)

Yes, of great interest in a rather sparse recorded repertoire. The pieces for clavisimbalum lend the CD some character of sameness (probably the posibilities of variation are small in this ancestor of the harpsichord), but fortunately she plays some pieces for flute in between for variety.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on August 17, 2021, 12:32:25 PM
New issue:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61sLNNq27HL._SX700_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71UMWDxGZxL._SX700_.jpg)

Looks interesting.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on August 17, 2021, 03:31:58 PM
Quote from: Que on August 17, 2021, 12:32:25 PM
New issue:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61sLNNq27HL._SX700_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71UMWDxGZxL._SX700_.jpg)

Looks interesting.
indeed, very appealing album, got to know this gentleman trought Singer Pur ensemble RennaissanceEin Rhein   8)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on August 20, 2021, 11:30:24 AM
Dear poster of GmG, what new under the sun, well I purchased by mystake an album an old one. West Germany Hungaroton stereo 1980 CD

Orlande de Lassus: Lagrime di San Pietro, Chamber Choir of the Liszt Frerenc Academy of Music  conducted by Istvan Parkai.

Suprising it's very good for an old CD, Paul Van Nevel would agree?

I had the huelgas ensemble of Lagrime Di San Pietro= les larmes de Saint Pierre,=Saint peter Tears and Bo Holten  version too.

:P
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on August 21, 2021, 12:50:54 AM
NEWSFLASH:

This:

(https://frabernardo.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/fb_2101297-CIRCA-1500-capilla-flamenca-4260307432973-IMG_6167-front.jpg)

https://frabernardo.com/portfolio-item/circa-1500-capilla-flamenca-music-from-the-time-of-albrecht-duerer/#tab-id-2

...is a reissue of this:

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/144/MI0001144402.jpg)

http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/orf04820.htm
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 21, 2021, 03:49:16 AM
Quote from: Que on June 10, 2021, 09:25:00 AM
Yes, that caught my eye as well.  :) 

At 55 minutes not very generous playing time though...   ::)

Was that really all the music this kind of creepy looking king of Scots listened to?  8)

55 minutes of quality time.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on August 28, 2021, 06:34:54 AM
Adémar de Chabannes was one of the first composer we know of I would like to thank sir Frederick Renz whom  was the direction for a fantastic CD album called: Troped Apostolic(plainchant) Mass for Saint Martial 1029 By Adémar DE Chabannes and his ensembl New York Ensemble for early music, they carved a gem, whit this rare album, I would recommend to everyone, that want to  listen to Gregorian music whit  a very bright shinning  halo of light, a star in the sky, a lighthouse in the azur sky, why did I called it Vox serenitatem, because his music is the voice of serenity, pure and simple, his music carry the listener trought divine radiant contemplation & introspection, good music for prayers, his music is extremely relaxing, like floating on a cloud. It's sad there is only one album  of this  awesome composer, I imagine , they should be one more whit Bowery Psalterium, like the super album by ensemble Cosmedin album called Anima Mea, perhaps , I say perhaps some ''manicotage'' would be appropriated, since we don't know if this composer was against usage of sacred instrument?

Adémar de Chabannes manuscript drawing of St. Cybard in Adémar's hand.
Adémar de Chabannes (sometimes Adhémar de Chabannes) (c. 989–1034[1]) was an eleventh-century French monk, historian, musical composer, and successful literary forger.



Life
Adémar was born at Chabannes, a village in today's Haute-Vienne département of France. Educated at the Abbey Saint-Martial de Limoges, he passed his life as a monk, both there and at the monastery of Saint-Cybard at Angoulême. Adémar died around 1034, most probably at Jerusalem, where he had gone on a pilgrimage.[2]

Writings

The intonation formulas for the 8 tones according to the Aquitanian tonary, which has been partly notated by Adémar (F-Pn lat. 909, fol. 151r-154r)
When Adémar joined the Abbey Saint Martial of Limoges, he was educated by his uncle Roger de Chabannes, cantor of the Abbey between 1010 until his death in 1025.[3] Adémar learned calligraphy, to read, to compose and to notate liturgical chant, to compile and to revise liturgical books, and to compose and to write liturgical poetry, homilies, chronicles and hagiography.[4] His life was mainly spent in writing and transcribing chant books and chronicles, and his principal work is a history entitled Chronicon Aquitanicum et Francicum or Historia Francorum. This is in three books and deals with Frankish history from the reign of Pharamond, king of the Franks, to 1028. The first two books are scarcely more than a copy of earlier histories of Frankish kings, such as the Liber Historiae Francorum, the Continuation of Fredegar and the Annales regni Francorum. The third book, which deals with the period from 814 to 1028, is of considerable historical importance.[5] It relies partly on the Chronicon Aquitanicum, to which Adémar himself added a final notice for the year 1028.

Forgery
He embraced the developing tale that Saint Martial, the third century bishop who Christianized the Limoges district, had actually lived centuries earlier, and was in fact one of the original apostles. And he supplemented the less than scanty documentation for the alleged 'apostolicity' of Martial, first with a forged Life of Martial, as if composed by Martial's successor, Bishop Aurelian. To effect this claim, he composed an "Apostolic Mass" that still exists in Adémar's own hand (F-Pn lat. 1121, ff. 28v-32v). The local bishop and abbot seem to have cooperated in the project and the mass was first sung on Sunday, August 3, 1029.[6]

Unfortunately for Adémar, the liturgy was disrupted by a travelling monk, Benedict of Chiusa, who denounced the improved Vita of Martial as a provincial forgery and the new liturgy as offensive to God. The word spread, and the promising young monk was disgraced. Adémar's reaction was to build forgery upon forgery, inventing a Council of 1031 that confirmed the 'apostolic' status of Martial, even a forged papal letter. The reality of this pathological tissue of forgeries was only unravelled in the 1920s, by a historian, Louis Saltet. Mainstream Catholic historians ignored Saltet's revelations until the 1990s.[citation needed]

In the long run, Adémar was successful. By the late 11th century, Martial was indeed venerated in Aquitaine as an apostle, though his legend was doubted elsewhere. In a very direct way, Adémar's Mass shows the power of liturgy to effect worship.

Works and legacy
Adémar composed his musical Mass and office according to the local school of his uncle Roger who worked as a cantor between 1010 until his death in 1025 at St. Martial Abbey using those modal patterns, as they have been documented in the tonaries of the new troper-prosers (F-Pn lat. 1121, 909), chant books to which Adémar had partly contributed as a notator. Concerning the Apostolic feast of the patron he composed as well the hymns as the music which had become the metier of a cantor at Saint Martial. For this liturgical occasion which he had to create, he contributed like other cantors with own compositions, especially in the tropes (extended musical items added to existing liturgical texts).

According to James Grier, Professor of Music History in the Don Wright Faculty of Music at the University of Western Ontario, Adémar was the first person to write music using the musical notation still in use today. He placed the musical notes above the text, higher or lower according to the pitch. Professor Grier states that "Placement on the vertical axis remains the standard convention for indicating pitch in notation in Western culture and there is far greater weight on pitch than on many other elements such as dynamics and timbre". Therefore, in discovering this document written around 1000 years in the past, Professor Grier turns Adémar in one of the first—if not the first—to write music using "modern" notation.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 28, 2021, 07:33:19 AM
This record is a great favourite of mine and I recommend it enthusiastically to anyone who enjoys Abelard, for example, or the St Gall music. The music is melodic, emotionally rich and moving. New York Ensemble for Early Music is a wonderful ensemble -- they can make a 12 minute gloria, a responsary of two soloists, riveting.

(https://img.discogs.com/M817jdQdzotD5QdYcoV87LAuuys=/fit-in/600x529/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10404755-1496771019-6409.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on August 28, 2021, 07:48:58 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 28, 2021, 07:33:19 AM
This record is a great favourite of mine and I recommend it enthusiastically to anyone who enjoys Abelard, for example, or the St Gall music. The music is melodic, emotionally rich and moving. New York Ensemble for Early Music is a wonderful ensemble -- they can make a 12 minute gloria, a responsary of two soloists, riveting.

Bonjour cher Mandryka
merci d'avoir partagé sur ce post.

Indeed this album fantastic folks, buy it before they get out of print  :)


(https://img.discogs.com/M817jdQdzotD5QdYcoV87LAuuys=/fit-in/600x529/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10404755-1496771019-6409.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on August 29, 2021, 06:18:21 AM
This looks like an interesting new release

(https://linkstorage.linkfire.com/medialinks/images/efaf3968-8bc0-4562-a219-ac17b42a2836/artwork-440x440.jpg) (https://lnk.to/Enigma_FortunaYT)

https://www.youtube.com/v/QxYlJH8siso
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 30, 2021, 01:26:16 AM
Quote from: North Star on August 29, 2021, 06:18:21 AM
This looks like an interesting new release

(https://linkstorage.linkfire.com/medialinks/images/efaf3968-8bc0-4562-a219-ac17b42a2836/artwork-440x440.jpg) (https://lnk.to/Enigma_FortunaYT)

https://www.youtube.com/v/QxYlJH8siso

Looks good.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on August 30, 2021, 09:54:09 AM
Quote from: North Star on August 29, 2021, 06:18:21 AM
This looks like an interesting new release

(https://linkstorage.linkfire.com/medialinks/images/efaf3968-8bc0-4562-a219-ac17b42a2836/artwork-440x440.jpg) (https://lnk.to/Enigma_FortunaYT)

https://www.youtube.com/v/QxYlJH8siso

Certainly. One of my favorite early composers. He is the one depicted on my avatar.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on August 30, 2021, 11:22:47 AM
Quote from: North Star on August 29, 2021, 06:18:21 AM
This looks like an interesting new release

(https://linkstorage.linkfire.com/medialinks/images/efaf3968-8bc0-4562-a219-ac17b42a2836/artwork-440x440.jpg) (https://lnk.to/Enigma_FortunaYT)

https://www.youtube.com/v/QxYlJH8siso

WOW this look fabuleous I'm so getting this records one of the smartest Ars Subtilior  composer ever no way wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :P
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on August 30, 2021, 11:29:54 AM
I got a marvelous  LP'S set called ARS BRITTANICA Old Hall Manuscript.

Three LP whit Lute Songs, Madrigals, a very interesting  and complete program of  Brittish composers, on Das Alte Werk label it's very good, anyone familiar whit this release hey?

The best for fanboy of English madrigals & Lute Songs, get this, trust me, I'm not lying it's that good!

I swear!!  :P
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on August 30, 2021, 12:03:43 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on August 30, 2021, 09:54:09 AM
Certainly. One of my favorite early composers. He is the one depicted on my avatar.

Very interesting - I never realised!  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 30, 2021, 11:53:09 PM
Quote from: deprofundis on August 30, 2021, 11:22:47 AM
WOW this look fabuleous I'm so getting this records one of the smartest Ars Subtilior  composer ever no way wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :P

I hope you know La Fonte Musica's two other CDs.

The booklet essay is fun

https://static.qobuz.com/goodies/36/000142563.pdf
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on August 31, 2021, 02:36:22 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 30, 2021, 11:53:09 PM
I hope you know La Fonte Musica's two other CDs.

The booklet essay is fun

https://static.qobuz.com/goodies/36/000142563.pdf

I suppose you think of

Le Ray au Soleyl Musique de la Cour de Visconti À la Fin du 14ème Siècle

and

Metamorfosi Trecento

both highly recommendable and very promising as to the Zacara CDs.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on August 31, 2021, 02:44:15 AM
Meanwhile I would like to draw the attention to two other exclusively Zacara CDs. one from Currentes (on Lawo) and the other one from Micrologus (on their own label):

https://www.amazon.it/s?k=zacara+de+teramo&i=popular&dc&__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&ref=a9_asc_1
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 31, 2021, 02:44:30 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on August 31, 2021, 02:36:22 AM
I suppose you think of

Le Ray au Soleyl Musique de la Cour de Visconti À la Fin du 14ème Siècle

and

Metamorfosi Trecento

both highly recommendable and very promising as to the Zacara CDs.

Yes, I like them very much and so far I like the ZdT very much too. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 31, 2021, 02:48:02 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on August 31, 2021, 02:44:15 AM
Meanwhile I would like to draw the attention to two other exclusively Zacara CDs. one from Currentes (on Lawo) and the other one from Micrologus (on their own label):

https://www.amazon.it/s?k=zacara+de+teramo&i=popular&dc&__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&ref=a9_asc_1

I have it, and have been dipping in occasionally yesterday. There's also a few ZdT tracks on Orlando Consort's The Saracen and Dove, and Mala Punica's Missa Cantilena.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: PeterWillem on August 31, 2021, 11:03:07 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 31, 2021, 02:48:02 AM
Orlando Consort's The Saracen and Dove
What an amazing album it was! Same goes for rest of their 90s/00s output (Popes & Antipopes, The Call of the Phoenix, Medieval Christmas...).
Unfortunately, I can make through those latest Machaut recordings (and I have 5 of them). Their stubbornness in singing "iiiiii" for most of the lines is criminal and unfortunately Matthew, new countertenor is a major step back in comparison to Robert Jones.

Quote from: North Star on August 29, 2021, 06:18:21 AM
This looks like an interesting new release

(https://linkstorage.linkfire.com/medialinks/images/efaf3968-8bc0-4562-a219-ac17b42a2836/artwork-440x440.jpg) (https://lnk.to/Enigma_FortunaYT)
I can recommend this. Very nice mix of instrumental and purely vocal songs.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on August 31, 2021, 12:45:38 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 31, 2021, 02:48:02 AM
I have it, and have been dipping in occasionally yesterday. There's also a few ZdT tracks on Orlando Consort's The Saracen and Dove, and Mala Punica's Missa Cantilena.

Yes, and even if these are symphatetic recordings, it wasn't until the Currentes recording I realized how special Zacara da Teramo is. Hopefully he will become recorded more in the future.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 31, 2021, 01:15:52 PM
Quote from: J.II.9 on August 31, 2021, 11:03:07 AM
What an amazing album it was! Same goes for rest of their 90s/00s output (Popes & Antipopes, The Call of the Phoenix, Medieval Christmas...).
Unfortunately, I can make through those latest Machaut recordings (and I have 5 of them). Their stubbornness in singing "iiiiii" for most of the lines is criminal and unfortunately Matthew, new countertenor is a major step back in comparison to Robert Jones.


I think they get better at Machaut, I don't have a great problem with Matthew Venner, I just feel that the original members are a bit past their sell by date now, Angus Smith and Donald Greig.

Maybe I'm particularly impressed by this year's release, The Lion of Nobility.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on August 31, 2021, 01:21:47 PM
Quote from: J.II.9 on August 31, 2021, 11:03:07 AM
I can recommend this. Very nice mix of instrumental and purely vocal songs.

Normally I'm not so interested in this type of instrumental music but I thought the tracks here were very agreeable.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 04, 2021, 07:47:17 AM
BOY, I've not posted here in over 6 years and was most active a dozen years ago, likely when I was reading about and collecting this 'Early Music'!

BUT, I'm currently reading the book below on Music in the Renaissance (part of an excellent Norton series that I've been renting on my iPad) - currently on a section about Guillaume DuFay and his mass based on L'homme armé (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27homme_arm%C3%A9) (The Armed Man), a popular secular song in the later Middle Ages (the tune and words at the bottom - see link for more).  Apparently, over three dozen masses were composed to the Ordinary of the Mass using this melody and variants - I probably own at least a half dozen or more, so decided to pull out a few for the morning's listening.  After building up a nice collection of this music, I've not been listening for a long while; must be corrected! - Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51DtjEQhCeL._SX332_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61FIgg8S5XL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81%2B-8uISfDL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71vlWARCNZL._SL1200_.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-sTkrRBG/0/985f8547/O/LHommeArme.png)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Traverso on September 04, 2021, 09:14:07 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 04, 2021, 07:47:17 AM
BOY, I've not posted here in over 6 years and was most active a dozen years ago, likely when I was reading about and collecting this 'Early Music'!

BUT, I'm currently reading the book below on Music in the Renaissance (part of an excellent Norton series that I've been renting on my iPad) - currently on a section about Guillaume DuFay and his mass based on L'homme armé (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27homme_arm%C3%A9) (The Armed Man), a popular secular song in the later Middle Ages (the tune and words at the bottom - see link for more).  Apparently, over three dozen masses were composed to the Ordinary of the Mass using this melody and variants - I probably own at least a half dozen or more, so decided to pull out a few for the morning's listening.  After building up a nice collection of this music, I've not been listening for a long while; must be corrected! - Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51DtjEQhCeL._SX332_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61FIgg8S5XL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81%2B-8uISfDL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71vlWARCNZL._SL1200_.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-sTkrRBG/0/985f8547/O/LHommeArme.png)

Your ears are hungry now ( I hope)  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 04, 2021, 09:59:21 AM
Quote from: Traverso on September 04, 2021, 09:14:07 AM


Your ears are hungry now ( I hope)  :)

LOL!  :laugh:  Yep, decided to put on some more Guillaume Dufay (c. 1397-1474) - Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51whZxH7PXL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51fnLCg6kTL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41Bzv5ghVsL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on September 05, 2021, 05:33:29 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 04, 2021, 07:47:17 AM
BOY, I've not posted here in over 6 years and was most active a dozen years ago, likely when I was reading about and collecting this 'Early Music'!

BUT, I'm currently reading the book below on Music in the Renaissance (part of an excellent Norton series that I've been renting on my iPad) - currently on a section about Guillaume DuFay and his mass based on L'homme armé (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27homme_arm%C3%A9) (The Armed Man), a popular secular song in the later Middle Ages (the tune and words at the bottom - see link for more).  Apparently, over three dozen masses were composed to the Ordinary of the Mass using this melody and variants - I probably own at least a half dozen or more, so decided to pull out a few for the morning's listening.  After building up a nice collection of this music, I've not been listening for a long while; must be corrected! - Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51DtjEQhCeL._SX332_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61FIgg8S5XL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81%2B-8uISfDL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71vlWARCNZL._SL1200_.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-sTkrRBG/0/985f8547/O/LHommeArme.png)

Dave, I think you should this recording - which is one of Van Nevel's very best:

(https://img.discogs.com/3dOFvZ7RQm2v6YqQESpQzhbM2qA=/fit-in/600x599/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8511617-1467788097-8373.jpeg.jpg)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 05, 2021, 08:01:37 AM
Quote from: Que on September 05, 2021, 05:33:29 AM
Dave, I think you should this recording - which is one of Van Nevel's very best:

(https://img.discogs.com/3dOFvZ7RQm2v6YqQESpQzhbM2qA=/fit-in/600x599/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8511617-1467788097-8373.jpeg.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41wDkmvlYML.jpg)

Thanks Que for the recommendation - I have the Paul van Nevel Dufay recording inserted above (and shown yesterday) - Amazon USA has quite a few pages on Nevel and I did find a 'used' copy at the 'Declutter' MP seller out of Georgia (usually takes just several days to get to me in NC from them), so made an order ($8 including the shipping/handling).  Dave :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on September 05, 2021, 08:58:13 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 05, 2021, 08:01:37 AM
Thanks Que for the recommendation - I have the Paul van Nevel Dufay recording inserted above (and shown yesterday) - Amazon USA has quite a few pages on Nevel and I did find a 'used' copy at the 'Declutter' MP seller out of Georgia (usually takes just several days to get to me in NC from them), so made an order ($8 including the shipping/handling).  Dave :)

Excellent!  :)  An very indispensable recording for anyone exploring the L'Homme Armé theme.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on September 05, 2021, 10:14:07 AM
Hello folks  I am listening to William Cornysh live in Rome Tallis Scholars this is actually quite good but when it come to a composer I like them I get a bit bias but take for granted White, Fayrfax, Parsons, Browne, Lambe is equally splendid. Love English Polyphony Godz!!

What do you think of William Cornysh?

People should  the ensemble The Clerks for Cornysh too you might see what I see or ear what I heard see, the beauty of English polyphony of Tudors time hey?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 05, 2021, 07:49:51 PM
Quote from: deprofundis on September 05, 2021, 10:14:07 AM
Hello folks  I am listening to William Cornysh live in Rome Tallis Scholars this is actually quite good but when it come to a composer I like them I get a bit bias but take for granted White, Fayrfax, Parsons, Browne, Lambe is equally splendid. Love English Polyphony Godz!!

What do you think of William Cornysh?

People should  the ensemble The Clerks for Cornysh too you might see what I see or ear what I heard see, the beauty of English polyphony of Tudors time hey?

Do you mean The Cardinall's Music or is there some Cornysh by The Clerks on record? The Andrew Carwood and David Skinner CD is excellent.

Some amazing Cornysh on this CD - Paul Hillier evidently liked Woefully Arrayed - he recorded it again with Ars Nova Copenhagen.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81ldr7q-MXL._SS500_.jpg)

I've heard Tallis Scholars sing Cornysh in concert and it was very good indeed. But in the Stabat Mater I prefer the more austere interpretation by Andrew Kirkman in their 2021 recording.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on September 06, 2021, 04:47:12 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 05, 2021, 07:49:51 PM
Do you mean The Cardinall's Music or is there some Cornysh by The Clerks on record? The Andrew Carwood and David Skinner CD is excellent.

Some amazing Cornysh on this CD - Paul Hillier evidently liked Woefully Arrayed - he recorded it again with Ars Nova Copenhagen.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81ldr7q-MXL._SS500_.jpg)

I've heard Tallis Scholars sing Cornysh in concert and it was very good indeed. But in the Stabat Mater I prefer the more austere interpretation by Andrew Kirkman in their 2021 recording.

You're correct my friend, cher mandryka, bonjour cher ami  8)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on September 06, 2021, 05:45:02 AM
Musik Des Trecento Um Jacopo Da Bologna [Ricercare-Ensemble fur Alte Musik, Zurich]


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/674AAOSwqCZfEIhP/s-l1600.jpg)


This is very interesting and, to me, authentic sounding music making [released in 1973] of songs and dances from fourteenth century Italy.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 06, 2021, 12:01:28 PM
Quote from: deprofundis on September 05, 2021, 10:14:07 AM
Hello folks  I am listening to William Cornysh live in Rome Tallis Scholars this is actually quite good but when it come to a composer I like them I get a bit bias but take for granted White, Fayrfax, Parsons, Browne, Lambe is equally splendid. Love English Polyphony Godz!!

What do you think of William Cornysh?

People should  the ensemble The Clerks for Cornysh too you might see what I see or ear what I heard see, the beauty of English polyphony of Tudors time hey?

Well, just started going through my 'early music' collection alphabetically (that's just how it's arranged -  :laugh:) - finishing up William Byrd this afternoon and into the 'c' - only have 1 CD by William Cornysh (1465-1523), an earlier English Renaissance composer, gone 20 years or so before William Byrd was born - will take a listen soon, but cannot add much more.  Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/518v4cm3eUL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on September 06, 2021, 05:21:39 PM
Quote from: aligreto on September 06, 2021, 05:45:02 AM
Musik Des Trecento Um Jacopo Da Bologna [Ricercare-Ensemble fur Alte Musik, Zurich]


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/674AAOSwqCZfEIhP/s-l1600.jpg)


This is very interesting and, to me, authentic sounding music making [released in 1973] of songs and dances from fourteenth century Italy.

If you like Jacopo, there are some equally interesting recordings of his works by La Reverdie and Ensemble Project Ars Nova.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 06, 2021, 07:11:29 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on September 06, 2021, 05:21:39 PM
If you like Jacopo, there are some equally interesting recordings of his works by La Reverdie and Ensemble Project Ars Nova.

Which PAN recording are you thinking of?

Sampling things by Jacopo I just came across this interesting concert recording, which sounds as though it was made in the audience

(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b2739196f22fb73e55eae40808d1)

Like Aligreto I'm kind of intrigued by the singing on that Reflexe CD
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 07, 2021, 01:38:17 PM
Well, I was up to Giovanni Gabrieli in listening to my 'Early Music' collection, when the CD below popped up - the reason was the poems praising the Virgin Mary were set to popular medieval melodies by Gautier de Coincy (short bio below w/ link).  Forgot how good this production is - great music, use of various instruments, vocals, stories - see the attached reviews.  Recommended.  Dave :)

QuoteGautier de Coincy (1177–1236) was a French abbot, trouvère and musical arranger, chiefly known for his devotion to the Virgin Mary. While he served as prior of Vic-sur-Aisne he compiled Les Miracles de Nostre-Dame (known in English as The Miracles of Notre Dame or The Miracles of Our Lady) in which he set poems in praise of the Virgin Mary to popular melodies and songs of his day. It is a reverential but humorous work, full of love for the cult of the Virgin Mary, which at that time also received attention from Saint Bernard of Clairvaux who was the leading medieval proponent of veneration of the Virgin as a counterbalance to the more rigorous Christian scholasticism, then the dominating spiritual force. (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautier_de_Coincy))

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41-zWnN8QOL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on September 07, 2021, 02:08:46 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 06, 2021, 07:11:29 PM
Which PAN recording are you thinking of?

Like Aligreto I'm kind of intrigued by the singing on that Reflexe CD

This one:

https://www.amazon.de/Italienische-Madrigale-Jahrhunderts-Jacopo-Bologna/dp/B00005R0CH/

More informative page.

http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/dhm0738.htm

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on September 07, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Little Help here I purchased two gnarly LP's Early Renaissance music whit Conrad Paumann, and ??? don't know the full program of this marvelous LP

Also bought Early Renaissance music on same label Archive Production a label affiliated whit Deutsch Gramophone, both LP are worth separately 100 US each , got them two for 10 US + shipping, insane shipping but good price never the less hey.

Wow what on Both Of these LP what year were they produced or release, so I had rare LP's for price of peanuts sac and thee artist are unknown since I tried to find them on discogs no information, got a soft spot for 1950 and  early 1960 vinyl there the best, it's like Christine's Stephen King brilliant novel, the LP will become a part of me, old archive production is a gold mine WOW, any comment fellows whom own one or the other LP I'm talking about please?

:)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 08, 2021, 09:08:58 AM
Gibbons, Orlando (1583-1625) - Keyboard Works w/ Christopher Hogwood on a cabinet organ, Italian spinet, & a harpsichord and James Johnstone on a harpsichord and virginals - just pulled my 5 CDs of the music of Gibbons (short bio quoted); despite a premature death in his early 40s, his LIST OF COMPOSITIONS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Orlando_Gibbons) is impressive, much secular and sacred vocal music - his KB works are shown in the lower pic from the link, about 40+ pieces listed by number as MB XX - thus this music can easily fit on two CDs - the ones in my collection have about 8 or so works overlapped, so I have about 3/4s of this output.  I was curious if a more recent double-disc release might have appeared but can find just one w/ Pienaar on piano (poor review in Fanfare - have not looked for others).  I'll be posting my other CDs of Gibbons later - likely will receive some recommendations!  Dave :)

QuoteOrlando Gibbons was an English composer and keyboard player who was one of the last masters of the English Virginalist School and English Madrigal School. The best known member of a musical family dynasty, by the 1610s he was the leading composer and organist in England, with a career cut short by his sudden death in 1625. As a result, Gibbons's oeuvre was not as large as that of his contemporaries, like the elder William Byrd,[2] but he made considerable contributions to many genres of his time. He is often seen as a transitional figure from the Renaissance to the Baroque periods. (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_Gibbons))

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41Abz0vQopL.jpg)  (https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/019/MI0001019288.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)  (https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk1ODA1MS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0Mjk1NDI5NjZ9)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-cm2qmM4/0/540debae/O/Gibbons_KBWorks.png)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 08, 2021, 11:25:25 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 08, 2021, 09:08:58 AM
Gibbons, Orlando (1583-1625) - Keyboard Works w/ Christopher Hogwood on a cabinet organ, Italian spinet, & a harpsichord and James Johnstone on a harpsichord and virginals - just pulled my 5 CDs of the music of Gibbons (short bio quoted); despite a premature death in his early 40s, his LIST OF COMPOSITIONS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Orlando_Gibbons) is impressive, much secular and sacred vocal music - his KB works are shown in the lower pic from the link, about 40+ pieces listed by number as MB XX - thus this music can easily fit on two CDs - the ones in my collection have about 8 or so works overlapped, so I have about 3/4s of this output.  I was curious if a more recent double-disc release might have appeared but can find just one w/ Pienaar on piano (poor review in Fanfare - have not looked for others).  I'll be posting my other CDs of Gibbons later - likely will receive some recommendations!  Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41Abz0vQopL.jpg)  (https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/019/MI0001019288.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)  (https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk1ODA1MS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0Mjk1NDI5NjZ9)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-cm2qmM4/0/540debae/O/Gibbons_KBWorks.png)

I find Gibbons quite a difficult composer. I listened to the Hogwood today by coincidence, I've got a good amateur transfer which I can let you have if you want, better sound than the commercial one but you can hear the LP surfaces. Other ones to think about seriously are Richard Egarr (my favourite because he's a poet), Laurent Stewart (my second favourite), John Toll (who's a bit like a modern Thurston Dart --  all about energy and movement forward) and Richard Wooley (organ - a very good organ! with some choral pieces too.)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 08, 2021, 11:34:05 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on September 07, 2021, 02:08:46 PM
This one:

https://www.amazon.de/Italienische-Madrigale-Jahrhunderts-Jacopo-Bologna/dp/B00005R0CH/

More informative page.

http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/cds/dhm0738.htm

Thanks, I didn't know about it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 08, 2021, 11:51:00 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 08, 2021, 11:25:25 AM
I find Gibbons quite a difficult composer. I listened to the Hogwood today by coincidence, I've got a good amateur transfer which I can let you have if you want, better sound than the commercial one but you can hear the LP surfaces. Other ones to think about seriously are Richard Egarr (my favourite because he's a poet), Laurent Stewart (my second favourite), John Toll (who's a bit like a modern Thurston Dart --  all about energy and movement forward) and Richard Wooley (organ - a very good organ! with some choral pieces too.)

Thanks for the comments - the Hogwood CD I own, despite being from 1975, sounded fine to me - I also liked the Johnstone but looked at many of the ones above which are still available on Amazon - will re-check and may add or replace one?  And I agree that Gibbons can be confusing - trying to go through his list of compositions is not easy relative to the organization - but will be posting the other 3 I own, so hopefully some comments and suggestions will be forthcoming?  Dave :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 08, 2021, 12:04:15 PM
Gibbons, Orlando - Samplings of his church music, anthems, verse anthems, and viol pieces from the 3 CDs below - looking at his list of compositions HERE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Orlando_Gibbons), I'm trying to make more sense of his output - below is the main listing from the link; I've quickly counted the number of works in each category (blue numbers in parentheses) - add up to about 140+ works.  Appears that the discs below at least are representative of this listing - not sure that I really want any more, but looking forward to any suggestions?  Are we lucky that he died young? - 20 more years of life would probably have at least doubled this output -  8)   Dave

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51IHps5zy2L.jpg)  (https://img.discogs.com/V2Kjge0iePp3cldzeawOzZr7A2A=/fit-in/581x581/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5263806-1429753962-1694.png.jpg)  (https://www.linnrecords.com/sites/default/files/styles/square_400/public/album_cover/BKD%20486%20x%201400.png?itok=RbXBOPMg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-g6j7Rw8/0/c95c1d66/O/GibbonsComp.png)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 08, 2021, 12:18:07 PM
One pioneering recording of Gibbons is by  David Wulstan and his choir The Clerks of Oxenford. Wulston investigated authentic performance practice and concluded that the music was designed to be sung transposed up, this makes the lower voices much less muddy. The recording is old, and sounds old, but is treasurable, adorable.

If you're interested in the consort music, there was a so called breakthrough recording released a couple of years ago by François Joubert-Caillet's ensemble  L'Achéron. A breakthrough because of the way they've designed and put together their set of instruments. As I say I find Gibbons difficult so I won't comment further, except to say that the pieces I like most are the three part fantasies (not so keen on the five and six part ones) and I like Savall's romantic and lyrical style very much. Concordia also interesting in this music, from memory.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 08, 2021, 01:26:36 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 08, 2021, 12:18:07 PM
One pioneering recording of Gibbons is by  David Wulstan and his choir The Clerks of Oxenford. Wulston investigated authentic performance practice and concluded that the music was designed to be sung transposed up, this makes the lower voices much less muddy. The recording is old, and sounds old, but is treasurable, adorable.

If you're interested in the consort music, there was a so called breakthrough recording released a couple of years ago by François Joubert-Caillet's ensemble  L'Achéron. A breakthrough because of the way they've designed and put together their set of instruments. As I say I find Gibbons difficult so I won't comment further, except to say that the pieces I like most are the three part fantasies (not so keen on the five and six part ones) and I like Savall's romantic and lyrical style very much. Concordia also interesting in this music, from memory.

Hi Mandryka - again, thanks for the help, but I'm getting a 'splitting headache' trying to sort out Gibbons!  :laugh:  I'm now advancing to John Jenkins and some viol music w/ Fretwork to start, followed by Phantasm.  BUT - many of your recommendations are either hard to find or not cheap on Amazon USA; however, I was able to setup two Spotify playlists: 1) David Wulstan and The Clerks of Oxenford; François Joubert-Caillet's ensemble  L'Achéron; plus 2 other recordings; and 2) Egarr; Toll; Pienaar on piano (had to just hear it -  ;D).  Need some mental peace for now so will listen to Spotify later - thanks again.  Dave :)

P.S. I did compare Richard Egaar's list of works (not too bad a price on Amazon but used copy) w/ the two KB CDs in my possession - virtually all but 4 are duplicated (and I also have Egaar w/ others and enjoy), but will listen on Spotify.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 08, 2021, 01:53:07 PM
Gibbons is headachy, for sure. This is the best cure

(https://img.discogs.com/GeuLhn0547V6dmlgoRaged2nNuQ=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(webp):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10436082-1515275465-8928.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 08, 2021, 02:09:51 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 08, 2021, 01:53:07 PM
Gibbons is headachy, for sure. This is the best cure

(https://img.discogs.com/GeuLhn0547V6dmlgoRaged2nNuQ=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(webp):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10436082-1515275465-8928.jpeg.jpg)  (http://www.medievalwarfare.info/pics/block.jpg)

Well, cannot see your pic - but added one potential cure appropriate for the Tudor era above -  ??? :laugh:  Dave
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 08, 2021, 07:09:52 PM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 08, 2021, 02:09:51 PM
Well, cannot see your pic - but added one potential cure appropriate for the Tudor era above -  ??? :laugh:  Dave

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8287917--the-excellency-of-hand
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 09, 2021, 08:18:37 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 08, 2021, 11:25:25 AM
I find Gibbons quite a difficult composer. I listened to the Hogwood today by coincidence, I've got a good amateur transfer which I can let you have if you want, better sound than the commercial one but you can hear the LP surfaces. Other ones to think about seriously are Richard Egarr (my favourite because he's a poet), Laurent Stewart (my second favourite), John Toll (who's a bit like a modern Thurston Dart --  all about energy and movement forward) and Richard Wooley (organ - a very good organ! with some choral pieces too.)

Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 08, 2021, 11:51:00 AM
Thanks for the comments - the Hogwood CD I own, despite being from 1975, sounded fine to me - I also liked the Johnstone but looked at many of the ones above which are still available on Amazon - will re-check and may add or replace one?  And I agree that Gibbons can be confusing - trying to go through his list of compositions is not easy relative to the organization - but will be posting the other 3 I own, so hopefully some comments and suggestions will be forthcoming?  Dave :)

Well, I just finished listening to the recordings below on Spotify and enjoyed both - my Hogwood CD is just 52 mins in length and has dated sound - found a 'used' copy of Toll on Amazon USA and made a purchase - will replace the Hogwood (just loosing 3-4 pieces and picking up 5).  Thanks again for the suggestions.  Dave :)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkzOTMwOC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0NTQ0MDMwMjV9)  (https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODA3MzE4OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MzYzNTUxODF9)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 09, 2021, 08:59:53 AM
Jenkins, John (1592-1678) - Fantasias, Consorts, & Others - after Orlando G. onto a simpler to understand long-lived English composer who wrote some wonderfully relaxing music for groups of viols; short bio below - own the 4 discs shown (first CD in the Fretwork box).  Any favorite recordings, recommendations, and/or comments.  Dave :)

QuoteJenkins was a long-active and prolific composer whose many years of life, spanning the time from William Byrd to Henry Purcell, witnessed great changes in English music. He is noted for developing the viol consort fantasia, being influenced in the 1630s by an earlier generation of English composers including Orlando Gibbons and others. Jenkins composed numerous 4, 5, and 6 part fantasias for viol consort, almans, courants and pavanes, and he breathed new life into the antiquated form of the In Nomine. He was less experimental than his friend William Lawes; indeed, Jenkins's music was more conservative than that of many of his contemporaries. It is characterised by a sensuous lyricism, highly skilled craftsmanship, and an original usage of tonality and counterpoint. (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jenkins_(composer)))

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81J8y18VkkL._SL1300_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71FygyIhzEL._SL1079_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/519lg3je3JL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51JR6VdSfdL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 10, 2021, 12:20:22 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 09, 2021, 08:59:53 AM
Jenkins, John (1592-1678) - Fantasias, Consorts, & Others - after Orlando G. onto a simpler to understand long-lived English composer who wrote some wonderfully relaxing music for groups of viols; short bio below - own the 4 discs shown (first CD in the Fretwork box).  Any favorite recordings, recommendations, and/or comments.  Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81J8y18VkkL._SL1300_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71FygyIhzEL._SL1079_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/519lg3je3JL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51JR6VdSfdL.jpg)

Robert Smith with Paolo Pandolfo for the duos, Robert Smith alone for the lyra viol music, and Savall for the large scale pieces, are tops for me.

Savall makes the music sound as though it looks back to the Renaissance, rather than forward to the Baroque, and I like that very much.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 10, 2021, 07:40:17 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 10, 2021, 12:20:22 AM
Robert Smith with Paolo Pandolfo for the duos, Robert Smith alone for the lyra viol music, and Savall for the large scale pieces, are tops for me.

Savall makes the music sound as though it looks back to the Renaissance, rather than forward to the Baroque, and I like that very much.

Thanks Mandryka for the suggestions above - I just put the Smith/Pandolfo CD below in my cart (assume that is the one you like?) - a little stiff at $17 USD but free Prime shipping for me; yesterday I also ordered the other other disc shown, only $10 (2 excellent reviews attached); also there are other reviews of the recordings shown in my previous post, all excellent; so there appears to be a plethora of Jenkins options, but the guy wrote over 800 works!  BTW, I love Savall but the one disc shown on Amazon w/ S/H is $25 - too high unless I had some credit (which should show up soon from my AMEX card); also, not available on Spotify for a listen - will decide later about the duo disc (only a third of the tracts are Jenkins, as I recall).  Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Qr%2BXLntoL._SL1500_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Uy00bCt-L.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 10, 2021, 07:54:06 AM
My view is that Jenkins is just a very very good composer and he sounds agreeable whoever's playing. Simpson's a bit like that too.  In fact, I'm not sure I could tell Jenkins and Simpson apart in a blind test.

This morning I dug the Savall Jenkins out -- it was as good as I remembered. I actually listened to every track -- and normally I have an attention span of about 15 minutes.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on September 11, 2021, 05:02:32 AM
Dear EMC, you most listen to this one, a special composer of year 1000, an ancient monk the practice plainchant & motets whit some dissonance in his tropes and odd stuff you know, I'm pretty sure to my knowledge this is the birth of avant-garde, because eventuality celestial harmony become strangely atonal to some degree making a contrast, in the end you're like puzzled this is far out for a ars antiqua to me Fulbert DE Chartres seem the green enigma , is music spiritual yet  bold and adventurous for it's respective era, someone most acknowledge this I only know one recording of Fulbert DE Chartres : Musicien de l'an mille- ensemble Venance Fortunat, this CD now out of print but worth buying this is  very very good pleasant and far from boring plainchant and very odd sounding like The Bamberg Code, but way beyond this, special music of monk intoxicate on chartreuse a legal alcohol in Canada the very spiritual Chartreuse liquor from France the green one, there is a yellow one  less herbalize.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on September 12, 2021, 01:37:33 AM
Susato/Morley: Danserye [Munrow]


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/O50AAOSwiIxaN5y~/s-l500.jpg)


The music of both composers is very engaging and entertaining. The style and tone of the respective composer's music is wonderful in the contrast that is presented here. This album is quite delightful. As always with Munrow, the sound world is constantly fascinating, wondrous, engaging and compelling. Munrow was such a prodigious talent and his tragic loss was immense.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Traverso on September 12, 2021, 05:06:01 AM
Quote from: aligreto on September 12, 2021, 01:37:33 AM
Susato/Morley: Danserye [Munrow]


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/O50AAOSwiIxaN5y~/s-l500.jpg)


The music of both composers is very engaging and entertaining. The style and tone of the respective composer's music is wonderful in the contrast that is presented here. This album is quite delightful. As always with Munrow, the sound world is constantly fascinating, wondrous, engaging and compelling. Munrow was such a prodigious talent and his tragic loss was immense.

I used to have the same LP,now I have it on CD  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on September 12, 2021, 05:07:29 AM
Quote from: Traverso on September 12, 2021, 05:06:01 AM
I used to have the same LP,now I have it on CD  :)

Great music and music making. I am a big fan of what Munrow did.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on September 13, 2021, 12:24:21 AM
I moved the recent posts on Lassus to Lassus' Library (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,23772.0.html)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 13, 2021, 07:41:50 AM
Quote from: Que on September 13, 2021, 12:24:21 AM
I moved the recent posts on Lassus to Lassus' Library (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,23772.0.html)

Thanks Que - just left a post there - got some Amazon credit and your recommendation for the Prophetiae Sibyllarum was there for $16 USD - used enough to get half off, so pleased w/ that purchase (also left some reviews, now in the other thread, that might interest others is wanting this work in their collection).  Dave :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 13, 2021, 07:57:10 AM
Lawes, William (1602-1645) - Viols, Consort Suites, Fantasias w/ the groups below; the Fretwork 5-disc box includes two by Lawes, so 5 total CDs of his works shown; he was short-lived, killed in the English Civil War on the royalist's side.  See link for his discography - this music is beautiful and he likely would have written much more; sorting out 'overlaps' in this listing of his recordings is not easy - if there are any other offerings in the link that do not match what I already own, please make suggestions.  Thanks.  Dave :)

QuoteWilliam Lawes was an English composer and musician. He spent his adult life in Charles's I employ, composing secular music and songs for court masques, as well as sacred anthems and motets. He is most remembered today for his sublime viol consort suites for between three and six players and his lyra viol music. (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lawes))

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81J8y18VkkL._SL1300_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51M6V35OniL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51AbU%2BMzSlL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 13, 2021, 09:29:30 AM
The Fretwork Lawes, suites with the organ, is very good because it is so supple and unpredictable. I don't know the Purcell Quartet CD. I like the London Baroque (with Egarr's organ, he's the star!!) but I find the sonatas a bit tame, the music wears out its welcome chez moi.

There is one other one you should try I think, it's very different from Fretwork - and that's Mark Levy's ensemble Concordia. I think Concordia make the music sound fabulous contrapuntally, their viols sound interesting too, this CD (which I play often)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61PmsyFMXgL._SX355_.jpg)

And I'm very fond of Savall, who is wonderfully lyrical and poised, and makes a beautiful sound.

And there's also this, with some top musicians - Leonhardt, Satoh, Kuijken, Jacobs. It hasn't won a place in my heart but it is certainly worth a listen, you may feel differently from me.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Yy3t7Q2AL._AC_SY355_.jpg)


Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 13, 2021, 10:10:56 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 13, 2021, 09:29:30 AM
The Fretwork Lawes, suites with the organ, is very good because it is so supple and unpredictable. I don't know the Purcell Quartet CD. I like the London Baroque (with Egarr's organ, he's the star!!) but I find the sonatas a bit tame, the music wears out its welcome chez moi.

There is one other one you should try I think, it's very different from Fretwork - and that's Mark Levy's ensemble Concordia. I think Concordia make the music sound fabulous contrapuntally, their viols sound interesting too, this CD (which I play often)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61PmsyFMXgL._SX355_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51pKPiE0GaL._SY355_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61t1GrucihL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Yy3t7Q2AL._AC_SY355_.jpg)

And I'm very fond of Savall, who is wonderfully lyrical and poised, and makes a beautiful sound.

And there's also this, with some top musicians - Leonhardt, Satoh, Kuijken, Jacobs. It hasn't won a place in my heart but it is certainly worth a listen, you may feel differently from me.

Thanks again for the suggestions - there was a 'used' Concordia CD on Amazon USA which I purchased for $7.  I also 'culled out' two discs w/ Monica Huggett (above) which duplicated the 2-disc set of Purcell Quartet which I really like more and have other recordings by them; plus, Nigel North and Paul O'Dette are on theorbos in the Purcell offering; should be happy w/ what I now own + your recommendation.  Dave :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 13, 2021, 11:22:59 AM
Given that you like the Purcell Quartet (Richard Boothby) and I like Fretwork (Richard Boothby) I think you owe it to yourself to try this, at least to listen once.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51uE9liiUiL._AC_.jpg)

I find it utterly forgettable. But others may love it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 13, 2021, 01:07:48 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 13, 2021, 11:22:59 AM
Given that you like the Purcell Quartet (Richard Boothby) and I like Fretwork (Richard Boothby) I think you owe it to yourself to try this, at least to listen once.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51uE9liiUiL._AC_.jpg)

I find it utterly forgettable. But others may love it.

Well, never said I didn't like Fretwork, own several of their boxes including the one w/ Lawes and use to see them live on visits to our University's yearly music series decades ago - noticed that Boothby was part of both groups - as to the 'solo lyra viol' recording above, it is available on Spotify, so I definitely will do a listen - thanks for the suggestion.  Dave :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JBS on September 13, 2021, 06:23:32 PM
Crosspost from WAYLT2

Catholic church music from 17th century Brabant, when Catholicism was de jure (but not de facto) suppressed.
Benedictus a Sancto Josepho was a Carmelite friar and somewhat well known composer.
One short modern work is included.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51Q7Luv0cZS.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51NTpr2J5eL.jpg)

ETA
The modern work sticks out like a sore thumb due to harmonic/melodic progressions.
The main part of the program is comparable in style to Schutz or Monteverdi.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 14, 2021, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 13, 2021, 11:22:59 AM
Given that you like the Purcell Quartet (Richard Boothby) and I like Fretwork (Richard Boothby) I think you owe it to yourself to try this, at least to listen once.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51uE9liiUiL._AC_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Qr%2BXLntoL._SL1500_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71LIGF62cwL._SL1200_.jpg)

I find it utterly forgettable. But others may love it.

Well some updates.  I did listen to Boothby performing the Lawes solo viols; own enough solo viol music, so will pass on that one; the Smith/Pandolfo CD arrived yesterday and have had two listens - enjoy!   Saw on the listening thread this morning a post by Que about the Binchois disc inserted above - you must like the performance also?  Dave :)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 14, 2021, 10:48:32 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 14, 2021, 10:04:43 AM
Saw on the listening thread this morning a post by Que about the Binchois disc inserted above - you must like the performance also?  Dave :)

Absolutely.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on September 15, 2021, 06:45:42 PM
Quote from: North Star on August 29, 2021, 06:18:21 AM
This looks like an interesting new release

(https://linkstorage.linkfire.com/medialinks/images/efaf3968-8bc0-4562-a219-ac17b42a2836/artwork-440x440.jpg) (https://lnk.to/Enigma_FortunaYT)   https://www.youtube.com/v/QxYlJH8siso

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2021/Sep/Zacara-enigma-ALPHA640.htm
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on September 16, 2021, 05:36:12 AM
Hello folks

I received two interresting LP Archive Production

The Early Renaissance serie B: From Oswald Wolkenstein up to The Locheimer Liederbuch.

And

The High Renaissance (16th Century) series B: At the imperial court of Maximilian I

Love this LP a lot I wonder if some people heard them so far here on GmG.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on September 16, 2021, 11:43:57 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on September 16, 2021, 05:36:12 AM
Hello folks

I received two interresting LP Archive Production

The Early Renaissance serie B: From Oswald Wolkenstein up to The Locheimer Liederbuch.

And

The High Renaissance (16th Century) series B: At the imperial court of Maximilian I

Love this LP a lot I wonder if some people heard them so far here on GmG.

As to specific information you are often very minimalistic, but I suppose, that the Lochamer Liederbuch CD is the one by the Uhlsamer Collegium and the Imperial court CD is the one by Harnoncourt. I know both of these long-time Archiv classics well. The Uhlsamer Collegium CD is IMO most relevatory while the Harnoncourt is a bit lala. This was also Harnoncourt's only recording for Archiv.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 18, 2021, 11:35:14 AM
Philips, Peter (c.1560-1628) - Keyboard Works & Motets w/ the performers below; he is also well represented in the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book - seems to have been a prolific composer not well represented by available recordings looking at Amazon; a check of BRO shows a few that I might just pick up?  Dave :)

QuotePeter Philips (c.1560–1628) was an eminent English composer, organist, and Catholic priest exiled to Flanders. He was one of the greatest keyboard virtuosos of his time, and transcribed or arranged several Italian motets and madrigals by such composers as Lassus, Palestrina, and Giulio Caccini for his instruments. Some of his keyboard works are found in the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book. Philips also wrote many sacred choral works. (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Philips))

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk0NDkzOS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NjUwMDc1ODZ9)  (https://img.discogs.com/WJ19AZ861Tu81xipEDWwRMHXedY=/fit-in/600x597/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-11782499-1522376745-6334.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 19, 2021, 02:29:46 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 18, 2021, 11:35:14 AM
Philips, Peter (c.1560-1628) - Keyboard Works & Motets w/ the performers below; he is also well represented in the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book - seems to have been a prolific composer not well represented by available recordings looking at Amazon; a check of BRO shows a few that I might just pick up?  Dave :)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzk0NDkzOS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE1NjUwMDc1ODZ9)  (https://img.discogs.com/WJ19AZ861Tu81xipEDWwRMHXedY=/fit-in/600x597/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-11782499-1522376745-6334.jpeg.jpg)

If you've got spotify have a listen to Elizabeth Farr on Naxos playing the Zentis 1658. Siegbert Rampe, Emer Buckley and Colin Booth also consistently rewarding, Anneke Uittenbosch is for me a bit patchy, though the high points are very high. If you are prepared to buy it, I think that the two Rampe volumes are particularly worthwhile for the selection of instruments, with MDG sound.

I'm not crazy about the harpsichord player but other people are, so this may float your boat

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Qy-rcanrL.jpg)

Peter Philips is a very good composer of keyboard music I think, lyrical.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 19, 2021, 08:08:40 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 19, 2021, 02:29:46 AM
If you've got spotify have a listen to Elizabeth Farr on Naxos playing the Zentis 1658. Siegbert Rampe, Emer Buckley and Colin Booth also consistently rewarding, Anneke Uittenbosch is for me a bit patchy, though the high points are very high. If you are prepared to buy it, I think that the two Rampe volumes are particularly worthwhile for the selection of instruments, with MDG sound.

I'm not crazy about the harpsichord player but other people are, so this may float your boat

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61Qy-rcanrL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71MXxH%2BkEML._SL1420_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71jQo5aJJtL._SL1200_.jpg)

Peter Philips is a very good composer of keyboard music I think, lyrical.

Hi Mandryka - probably considered one of the best keyboardist of his time - I made a BRO order yesterday which included 3 Philips discs, one w/ Rampe (V. 2 - did not have V. 1; not even on Presto as a DL) and 2 of sacred works; also have Elizabeth Farr as a 'used CD' in my Amazon cart and will likely order - have not checked the 'duplications' w/ Rampe, V.2 nor w/ my Paul Nicholson recording; hope not a lot!  Dave :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 19, 2021, 03:07:01 PM
Tomkins, Thomas (1572-1656) - just have the first 3 CDs shown below; as stated in the quote below, he was an excellent keyboard composer and player - I just have the single disc w/ Carole Cerasi, but there are 4 volumes (last pic) on MDG that appear to be unavailable - any comments on this performer?  He also wrote a LOT of other music as outlined.  He had a terrible time during the English Civil War but lived a long life - thoughts and comments appreciated.  Dave :)

QuoteThomas Tomkins was a Welsh-born composer of the late Tudor and early Stuart period. In addition to being one of the prominent members of the English Madrigal School, he was a skilled composer of keyboard and consort music, and the last member of the English virginalist school. Tomkins wrote and published madrigals; 76 pieces of keyboard (organ, virginal, harpsichord) music, consort music, anthems, and liturgical music. Stylistically he was extremely conservative: he seems to have completely ignored the rising Baroque practice around him, with its Italian-inspired idioms, and he also avoided writing in most of the popular forms of the time, such as the lute song, or ayre. His polyphonic language was frankly that of the Renaissance. Some of his madrigals are extremely expressive, with text-painting and chromaticism worthy of Italian madrigalists. He was also a prolific composer of both full and verse anthems, writing more than almost any other English composer of the 17th century. (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Tomkins))

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71bnwtTJC2L._SL1000_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71uqDucdLBL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/A1tJmf%2BBkCL._SL1500_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81irjHbe7eL._SL1142_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 19, 2021, 07:20:31 PM
There's a fair bit of discussion between me and bioluminescentsqud about the Klapprott, which I like very much, it is a frequent source of pleasure, but he initially thought was dull, and eventually I think he had an epiphany and came round to my point of view. The set uses harpsichord and organ.  Klapprott has an amazingly good anthology CD called All Lust und Freud, he accompanied Bob Van Asperen in Art Of Fugue, he is one of the organists in the late complete Bach with Kooimann - he is a well respected active academic musician.

You may want to look out for Fretwork's recording called Above the Stars, and an organ recording with Hadrien Jourdan. There are a lot of vocal collections which I haven't explored.  Note that Bertrand Cuillier recorded a CD called Mr Tomkins and his lessons of worth, the title refers to a contemporary anthology by various composers (including Tomkins)

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 19, 2021, 11:44:53 PM
I'd forgotten how good this is

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51gU%2BVXl-nL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 20, 2021, 08:08:50 AM
Tallis, Thomas (c. 1505-1585) - Complete Works in the Brilliant box below - on the first 3 discs; there is a CD-ROM that has a 75 page PDF file (on my computer) describing each disc w/ words/translations of the vocal works.  Disc 9 is described as 'Instrumental Music & Songs' - but not really a 'keyboard compilation' - much of his solo KB works, whether for organ or other instruments of the 16th century seems to be lost and possibly undiscovered?  Not owned by me is the Taylor recording of Tallis' 'Complete KB Works' - would enjoy comments on this disc or possibly other options to supplement my box?  Dave :)

QuoteThomas Tallis was an English Renaissance composer who occupies a primary place in anthologies of English choral music. He is considered one of England's greatest composers, and he is honoured for his original voice in English musicianship. Tallis served at court as a composer and performer for Henry VIII, Edward VI, Mary I, and Elizabeth I. He was first designated as an organist at the chapel after 1570. He avoided the religious controversies that raged around him throughout his service to successive monarchs, though he remained an "unreformed Roman Catholic". Tallis was capable of switching the style of his compositions to suit each monarch's different demands. He stood out among other important composers of the time. The author and composer Ernest Walker wrote that "he had more versatility of style" than Tye and White, and "his general handling of his material was more consistently easy and certain. Tallis taught the composer William Byrd. (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Tallis) - edited)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61hHMIajSiL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61CzspAop-L._SL1000_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/714%2B0quw-9L._SL1050_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 20, 2021, 12:29:50 PM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 20, 2021, 08:08:50 AM
possibly other options to supplement my box?  Dave :)



This

(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b273d3c3fc1c0c8c95689e4abb60)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on September 20, 2021, 04:57:57 PM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 20, 2021, 08:08:50 AM
Tallis, Thomas (c. 1505-1585) - Complete Works in the Brilliant box below - on the first 3 discs; there is a CD-ROM that has a 75 page PDF file (on my computer) describing each disc w/ words/translations of the vocal works.  Disc 9 is described as 'Instrumental Music & Songs' - but not really a 'keyboard compilation' - much of his solo KB works, whether for organ or other instruments of the 16th century seems to be lost and possibly undiscovered?  Not owned by me is the Taylor recording of Tallis' 'Complete KB Works' - would enjoy comments on this disc or possibly other options to supplement my box?  Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61hHMIajSiL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61CzspAop-L._SL1000_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/714%2B0quw-9L._SL1050_.jpg)
Sir +1
I seriously agree Alistair Dixon, know how to put out great Tallis, I have this one too in download and a CD of this huge awesome box-set, master work!!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 21, 2021, 09:39:16 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 20, 2021, 12:29:50 PM
This

(https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b273d3c3fc1c0c8c95689e4abb60)

Thanks - own plenty of CDs by Fretwork but not the one shown - $30+ on Amazon USA, cheaper but not available as a physical disc on PrestoMusic, MP3 DL there the usual $10 or so.  Dave :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 21, 2021, 10:19:22 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on September 20, 2021, 04:57:57 PM
Sir +1
I seriously agree Alistair Dixon, know how to put out great Tallis, I have this one too in download and a CD of this huge awesome box-set, master work!!

Yes there are some interesting things in the instrumental music in the Dixon box, a lovely performance of the Felix Namque ii on lute, for example. It may well be the thing by Tallis I like the most ever. Charivari Agreeable are sweet too, and Laurence Cummings is able to play the notes in the right order.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 21, 2021, 10:29:32 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 21, 2021, 09:39:16 AM
Thanks - own plenty of CDs by Fretwork but not the one shown - $30+ on Amazon USA, cheaper but not available as a physical disc on PrestoMusic, MP3 DL there the usual $10 or so.  Dave :)

It was their first recording and there's a sense of freshness about it. Some rare music, and most of it quite early.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 22, 2021, 08:46:40 AM
Tye, Christopher (c.1505-c.1573) - short synopsis below w/ link; a respected English Renaissance composer and music teacher to Edward VI - apparently prolific but little was published during his life and much of his output likely lost.  I have the first two CDs shown below - the consort music w/ Phantasm was a Spotify listen this morning, and enjoyed!  More is available on Amazon USA than I expected, but any comments, recommendations, etc. would be appreciated.  Dave :)

QuoteChristopher Tye(c.1505 – before 1573) was an English Renaissance composer and organist. Probably born in Cambridgeshire, he trained at the University of Cambridge and became the master of the choir at Ely Cathedral. He is noted as the music teacher of Edward VI of England and was held in high esteem for his choral music, as well as chamber works such as his 24 polyphonic In nomines. It is likely that only a small percentage of his compositional output survives, often only as fragments; his Acts of the Apostles was the only work to be published in his lifetime. (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Tye))

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61sHhc0iwJL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/518TMW1MCFL.jpg)  (https://i.imgur.com/XcFZvvN.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on September 22, 2021, 06:45:16 PM
I really like Jachet DE Berchem= Jacques DE Berchem on Accent label, and all he done O Jesus Christie and a superb Alleluia, unfortunately, he a small town boy of the composer, no one care or is aware of, my advice would be grab, stream , download the CD of accent, it's very sweet , I really like the man work.

Darn how come musicologist ensemble don't care about this composer, look I know he was not prolific but I like his work so much I want more please, ensemble of renowned please, put out more Berchem or I am gonna seriously get mad, like Howard Beale (The movie of 1976 ''The network'') loll  :laugh: I'm serious now please?

In my book he a small player in Franco-Flemish matrix but his work his quite strong and spiritual, pretty and awesome, anyone agree whit me?

Anyone like Jacob Van Berchem here ???
Mandryka do you know obscure release, anyone here know stuff I don't know... 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 22, 2021, 07:51:12 PM
Phantasm not for me - contrasts too underlined at the expense of poise; the balance favours the treble rather than a more equally balanced polyphonic texture.

I think you should explore Hilliard Ensemble's recording with Tye's Missa Sine Nomine on ECM and the Rose Consort's recording called Four Gentlemen of the Chapel Royal.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 23, 2021, 07:56:55 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 22, 2021, 07:51:12 PM
Phantasm not for me - contrasts too underlined at the expense of poise; the balance favours the treble rather than a more equally balanced polyphonic texture.

I think you should explore Hilliard Ensemble's recording with Tye's Missa Sine Nomine on ECM and the Rose Consort's recording called Four Gentlemen of the Chapel Royal.

Neither of the suggestions above on Spotify - I'm finding that much of this older 'early music' is OOP, unavailable, overpriced, or only obtainable via DLs, which I'm not doing much anymore - but did find a couple of Tye recordings on Spotify below - really loved the 'recorder consort' program but the CD is $30+ on Amazon USA, just not worth the price for me (Presto has a $10 MP3 DL & Qobuz a $10 CDA DL, either I would burn to a CD-R and label?).  Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61k%2BJ9peKvL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81eSzDAqO7L._SL1417_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 23, 2021, 08:13:26 AM
Phillipe de Vitry (1291-1361) - 14th Century Motets w/ the Orland Consort, last entry in my 'early music' composer sub-collection (the compilation section up next and much smaller in number) - this is my only recording of this 'Ars Nova' notable, and a MP3 DL burned CD-R, so sounds fine on my den speakers; not much else comes up on Amazon and not sure how much of his music is extant - not much listed in the link below and many are questioned as being dubious attributions?  Dave :)

QuotePhilippe de Vitry (1291 – 1361) was a French composer, music theorist and poet. He was an accomplished, innovative, and influential composer, and may also have been the author of the Ars Nova treatise. He was widely acknowledged as the greatest musician of his day, with Petrarch writing a glowing tribute, calling him: "... the keenest and most ardent seeker of truth, so great a philosopher of our age." Though de Vitry likely wrote secular music, only his sacred works survive. (Source) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_de_Vitry)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81w10dtOJAL._SS500_.jpg)  (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Philippe_de_Vitry.jpg/220px-Philippe_de_Vitry.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 23, 2021, 08:14:45 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 23, 2021, 07:56:55 AM
Neither of the suggestions above on Spotify - I'm finding that much of this older 'early music' is OOP, unavailable, overpriced, or only obtainable via DLs, which I'm not doing much anymore - but did find a couple of Tye recordings on Spotify below - really loved the 'recorder consort' program but the CD is $30+ on Amazon USA, just not worth the price for me (Presto has a $10 MP3 DL & Qobuz a $10 CDA DL, either I would burn to a CD-R and label?).  Dave :)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61k%2BJ9peKvL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81eSzDAqO7L._SL1417_.jpg)

I know both of them, I think they're both OK, not objectionable in any way. Have you heard Savall -- his approach is unique in this music.

The truth is that in my heart of hearts I'm not totally convinced that anyone has managed to find a good way of making sense of Tye's music. The Rose Consort is good, but it's only a few pieces. Hilliard is good, but it's a very early mass, not representative of his later work.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 23, 2021, 08:16:03 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 23, 2021, 08:13:26 AM
Phillipe de Vitry (1291-1361) - 14th Century Motets w/ the Orland Consort, last entry in my 'early music' composer sub-collection (the compilation section up next and much smaller in number) - this is my only recording of this 'Ars Nova' notable, and a MP3 DL burned CD-R, so sounds fine on my den speakers; not much else comes up on Amazon and not sure how much of his music is extant - not much listed in the link below and many are questioned as being dubious attributions?  Dave :)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81w10dtOJAL._SS500_.jpg)  (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Philippe_de_Vitry.jpg/220px-Philippe_de_Vitry.jpg)

It's excellent but you need to have Sequentia too, which is also excellent and is, of course, slightly different. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

http://www.sequentia.org/recordings/recording08.html

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 23, 2021, 08:31:03 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 23, 2021, 08:16:03 AM
It's excellent but you need to have Sequentia too, which is also excellent and is, of course, slightly different. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

http://www.sequentia.org/recordings/recording08.html

Well, I know Sequentia (have their Hildegard box), but again the physical CD is $30+ on Amazon, not a purchase - now Qobuz has the CD quality DL shown below for $13 - label covers are different but assume the same recording?  Dave

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/20/51/0828766835120_600.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 23, 2021, 08:38:36 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 23, 2021, 08:31:03 AM
Well, I know Sequentia (have their Hildegard box), but again the physical CD is $30+ on Amazon, not a purchase - now Qobuz has the CD quality DL shown below for $13 - label covers are different but assume the same recording?  Dave

(https://static.qobuz.com/images/covers/20/51/0828766835120_600.jpg)

Yes it is. Basically if I remember correctly Sequentia is faster and more incisive than Orlando, Orlando more lyrical and introspective than Sequentia. Both make a really convincing case out for de Vitry.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 23, 2021, 09:00:41 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 23, 2021, 08:38:36 AM
Yes it is. Basically if I remember correctly Sequentia is faster and more incisive than Orlando, Orlando more lyrical and introspective than Sequentia. Both make a really convincing case out for de Vitry.

Both the Orlando & Sequentia recordings have about 20 tracts each; below is a listing of the Orlando 'motets' - in bold are the tracts that are also on the other recording, so about half are duplicated, so Sequentia would provide me w/ 10 or so additional de Vitry songs; and on PrestoMusic the recording is a $10 MP3 DL - maybe some downloading for me?  Dave  :-\

Quotede Vitry - Orlando tracts
Vitry: Vos quied admiramini - Gratissima viginis species
Vitry: Se je chant
Vitry: Apta caro - Flos virginum
Vitry: Tribum que non abhorruit - Quoniam secta latronum
Vitry: O canenda vulgo - Rex quem metrorum
Vitry: Colla iugo subdere - Bona condit
Vitry: Petre Clemens - Lugentium siccentur

Vitry: Trahunt in precipicia - Quasi non ministerium - Ve qui gregi
Vitry: Almifonis melos - Rosa sine culpe spina
Vitry: Douce playsence - Garison selon nature
Vitry: Tuba sacre fidei - In arboris

Vitry: In virtute - Decens carmen
Vitry: Impudenter circumivi - Virtutuibus laudabilis
Vitry: Aman novi probatur - Heu, fortuna subdola
Vitry: Floret cum vana gloria - Florens vigor
Vitry: Firmissime fide - Adesto Sancta Trinitas

Vitry: Flos ortus - Celsa cedrus
Vitry: Servant regem - O Philippe
Vitry: Cum statua Nabucodonasor - Hugo, Hugo, princeps invidie
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on September 24, 2021, 01:53:16 PM
new release

https://www.youtube.com/v/9-bTeG2_KzM

(https://outhere-music.com/uploads/images/3760195734919.jpeg) (https://outhere-music.com/en/albums/Swithun-A491)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 25, 2021, 12:50:40 AM
Quote from: North Star on September 24, 2021, 01:53:16 PM
new release

https://www.youtube.com/v/9-bTeG2_KzM

(https://outhere-music.com/uploads/images/3760195734919.jpeg) (https://outhere-music.com/en/albums/Swithun-A491)

My first  impressions are quite positive. This is the third cd dedicated to the Winchester Toper, and the second to use ladies' voices, I prefer the one from Schola Gregoriana Cambridge I think, with male singers and a mass. It may help when I follow the text in this Diologos recording - it's really a drama.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 25, 2021, 08:05:55 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 25, 2021, 12:50:40 AM
My first  impressions are quite positive. This is the third cd dedicated to the Winchester Toper, and the second to use ladies' voices, I prefer the one from Schola Gregoriana Cambridge I think, with male singers and a mass. It may help when I follow the text in this Diologos recording - it's really a drama.

Well, I've heard of the Winchester Troper (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Troper) but did not understand its significance until I read the link - impressive!  Off Spotify, I listened to the first two recordings shown below (assume the one w/ Schola Gregoriana Cambridge is Mandryka's reference?) - unfortunately did not have any booklet translations.  But I did notice on Amazon that the Schola group had a bunch of recordings - any particular recommendations for those who may own one or more?  The 'Abelard & Heloise' story always interested me -  8)  Dave


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51c-p%2BkAoKL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51SLxmjj5%2BL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61JgKpqTKJL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on September 25, 2021, 08:29:45 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 25, 2021, 08:05:55 AM


(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51c-p%2BkAoKL._SL1200_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51SLxmjj5%2BL.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61JgKpqTKJL.jpg)

The Cambridge recordings are an acquired taste, so sample. The Abelard is interesting, very restrained. And there's a liturgical setting of the Machaut mass, which is not my cup of tea, partly because of a personal antipathy to the posh Eton and Oxbridge accents of some of the singers. There are some recordings made in the Vatican, with bad Vatican acoustics.

Here's one of my comments ages ago

Quote from: Mandryka on May 13, 2021, 09:49:46 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91kR9pwrT2L._SS500_.jpg)

They may be OK at singing monophonic music like some church chant,  but to me they sound chaotic when singing music with different simultaneous melodies - it may be the reverb, but honestly - they decided to recorded it with so much reverb! And their singers - especially the woman (or is it a female impersonator) - sound amateur to me. An interesting concept CD but badly executed IMO. What a disappointment.

That being said the Dunstable is priceless, I remember commenting on it before - it would be interesting to know what thinking led them to sing it like this. It's just weird - and I'm not sure if it's good weird! The Johannes Nucius (who he?) is strange too - with a womanny voice  singing like Mary Poppins. Yuck, bad bad baddy bad.

And San Antone's defence

Quote from: Old San Antone on May 13, 2021, 03:18:12 PM
It was recorded October 1992 at The Abbey Church, Pontigny, Yonne.   I have been a fan of Mary Berry and this schola for a long time and can't agree with your assessment.

Here's some info about the recording and music:

QuoteThe Abbey of Pontigny, second daughter-house of Cîteaux, was founded in 1114 in the valley of the River Serin, a typical rural Cistercian site. The Abbey church is the largest Cistercian church surviving in France today.

The imposing height and length of the building give it a remarkably warm and resonant acoustic, well suited to chant. The brilliance of the white stone enables the purity and simplicity of the early Cistercian architecture to be revealed in all its beauty.

The Abbey is rich in history. In particular, during the 12th and 13th centuries three English Archbishops of Canterbury sought refuge there: Thomas Becket (1118-1170), Stephen Langton (d.1228), and Edmund of Abingdon (c.1175-1240), who became patron saint of Pontigny.

Pentecost has a special meaning for the people of Pontigny because it was on a Whit Monday that Edmund of Abingdon, – St Edme in French – was transported from Soissy, where he died, to his final resting-place above the high altar in the Abbey church.

This recording enters into the spirit of ‘Pentecôte at Pontigny’: ritual music for the feast of Pentecost, chants gleaned from Cistercian service-books, and a selection of pieces that honour the three Archbishops.

I could be wrong but I think this schola is a male group.

One I've tried to get into is based around the asassination of St Thomas Becket -- maybe I should give it another go soon.

These things are really austere, I mean it's like being in a cold uncomfortable church sitting through a long long service.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 25, 2021, 09:10:24 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on September 25, 2021, 08:29:45 AM
The Cambridge recordings are an acquired taste, so sample. The Abelard is interesting, very restrained. And there's a liturgical setting of the Machaut mass, which is not my cup of tea, partly because of a personal antipathy to the posh Eton and Oxbridge accents of some of the singers. There are some recordings made in the Vatican, with bad Vatican acoustics.

Here's one of my comments ages ago

And San Antone's defence

I could be wrong but I think this schola is a male group.

One I've tried to get into is based around the asassination of St Thomas Becket -- maybe I should give it another go soon.

These things are really austere, I mean it's like being in a cold uncomfortable church sitting through a long long service.

Thanks Mandryka for your helpful comments - believe that I'll just put together a Spotify playlist and listen for a morning -  8)  Dave
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on September 26, 2021, 01:36:35 PM
Gesualdo: Dolcissima mia vita. Madrigali a cinque voci, Libro quinto (1611)


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/05IAAOSwp5dhTWSX/s-l500.jpg)


I like the sounds of the samples that I have heard from this one. It is a bit soprano top heavy but that vocal is top quality so it is not a major point for me.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: SonicMan46 on September 27, 2021, 08:23:13 AM
Well a small package of BRO bargains arrived today - culling and adding to my 'early music collection' - so some new additions (also one disc of Machaut and one of Dufay):

Ockeghem, Johannes (c. 1420-1497) - Requiem w/ Ensemble Organum & Marcel Peres - considered the first polyphonic setting of the Mass for the Dead - several reviews attached.

Philips, Peter (c. 1560-1628) - Cantiones Sacrae w/ Rupert Gough & Richard Marlow) and Keyboard Works, V. 2 w/ Siegbert Rampe on harpsichord, clavichord, and organ - reviews of all of these recordings is in the attachment for those interested; plus, short bio below.  Dave :)

QuotePeter Philips was an eminent English composer, organist, and Catholic priest exiled to Flanders. He was one of the greatest keyboard virtuosos of his time, and transcribed or arranged several Italian motets and madrigals by such composers as Lassus, Palestrina, and Giulio Caccini for his instruments. Some of his keyboard works are found in the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book. Philips also wrote many sacred choral works. (Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Philips))

(https://img.discogs.com/cwBmZZ5tYD7RN0ZqhhQ897TZoQo=/fit-in/600x597/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-6299847-1545236654-3121.jpeg.jpg)  (https://www.clicmusique.com/covers/large/0034571179452.jpg)  (https://i.ytimg.com/vi/m32Pye5KL4M/hqdefault.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71MXxH%2BkEML._SL1420_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 02, 2021, 02:47:17 AM
I've been listening to all the performances of Dufay's se la face est pale mass which I can find - and it's a surprise to me how Chiaroscuro  Ensemble seemed to stand out from the crowd, partly because of the ensemble's sound, the harmonies are more interesting with Chiaroscuro than others.

There's more, their feel for rhythms and tactus too make this an outstanding thing I think

(https://img.discogs.com/uK9tM6NmukY-uTv1TDHK33ZSv7Y=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(webp):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-9359479-1479222934-7458.jpeg.jpg)

I came across it because I like Nigel Rogers' voice and was keen to explore what he's done. I'd kind of avoided the recording in the past because I'd thought of Chiaroscuro Ensemble as a baroque outfit, but here they show they can walk the walk in early music too.

The recording is beefed up with some songs, Senfl, Lassus, Dufay, which I haven't heard yet.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Traverso on October 02, 2021, 03:19:55 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 02, 2021, 02:47:17 AM
I've been listening to all the performances of Dufay's se la face est pale mass which I can find - and it's a surprise to me how Chiaroscuro  Ensemble seemed to stand out from the crowd, partly because of the ensemble's sound, the harmonies are more interesting with Chiaroscuro than others.

There's more, their feel for rhythms and tactus too make this an outstanding thing I think

(https://img.discogs.com/uK9tM6NmukY-uTv1TDHK33ZSv7Y=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(webp):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-9359479-1479222934-7458.jpeg.jpg)

I came across it because I like Nigel Rogers' voice and was keen to explore what he's done. I'd kind of avoided the recording in the past because I'd thought of Chiaroscuro Ensemble as a baroque outfit, but here they show they can walk the walk in early music too.

The recording is beefed up with some songs, Senfl, Lassus, Dufay, which I haven't heard yet.

Thank you for posting,interesting recording
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on October 17, 2021, 05:57:48 PM
Dear folk, I just purchased a fabulous CD on AEON label, Called In Memoriam, It sounds awesome from Phillipe DE Vitry, principal instigator of Ars nova, whit an interresting program that Include Machaut Messe DE Notre-Dame, It prodigious, one of the best rendition of thee Masse, plus anons and less prolific composer, did I needed this well perhaps because I only had A vynil on Das Alte Werk, not that it  was so bad , but AEON a great CD company offer quality goods, so this look good, presentation sleeve and it was discount.

For trough Ars Nova lover and neophyte a delight for the ears.

What do you think people of GMG, this seem very great the Mass of Notre-Dame seem better than Marcel Pérès , good ensemble Organum this is telling peoples.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 18, 2021, 07:59:04 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on October 17, 2021, 05:57:48 PM
Dear folk, I just purchased a fabulous CD on AEON label, Called In Memoriam, It sounds awesome from Phillipe DE Vitry, principal instigator of Ars nova, whit an interresting program that Include Machaut Messe DE Notre-Dame, It prodigious, one of the best rendition of thee Masse, plus anons and less prolific composer, did I needed this well perhaps because I only had A vynil on Das Alte Werk, not that it  was so bad , but AEON a great CD company offer quality goods, so this look good, presentation sleeve and it was discount.

For trough Ars Nova lover and neophyte a delight for the ears.

What do you think people of GMG, this seem very great the Mass of Notre-Dame seem better than Marcel Pérès , good ensemble Organum this is telling peoples.

Yes, the tempo is my cup of tea -- much more so than Parrott in the mass. I've seen Kandel in concert with medieval music -- some de Virtry and the Missa Barcelona -- it was very entertaining indeed.

I think you should hear everything that Ensemble Musica Nova have recorded forthwith, including the Jacob Handl motets.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: PeterWillem on October 18, 2021, 12:45:01 PM
As much as I adore Ensemble Musica Nova for their Dufay recording, the Machaut mass was a major dissapointment. While tempo and singing are nicely aligned, there are some issues with hmm...neumes transcription, I guess? There are some chords which sounds just off comparing to other recordings.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 19, 2021, 09:33:18 AM
Quote from: J.II.9 on October 18, 2021, 12:45:01 PM
As much as I adore Ensemble Musica Nova for their Dufay recording, the Machaut mass was a major dissapointment. While tempo and singing are nicely aligned, there are some issues with hmm...neumes transcription, I guess? There are some chords which sounds just off comparing to other recordings.

Yes, I know exactly why you're saying that but I don't think those chords sound off, I think they sound good. It would certainly be interesting to read more about how Kandel created his performing edition - as far as I know there's nothing in the public domain.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on October 30, 2021, 01:38:35 AM
Greeting  there an album that stand out in my collection, It had many listen so far, was wondering what you think have you heard it.

Zamyra Byrd, Mandryka, QUE and etc...

This album extra ordinary, each time I would listen to this album, I was filled whit joy, an album of Capella Del Ministers by eminent director Carle Magraner, Cançonier DE Gandia, wow I mean WOW in caps locks this is a superb  album to be heard to be loved, perhaps I say perhaps one of the best ever made of this ensemble, the instrumental part if fantastic the voices are sublime, the climax is outstanding, one of the best album I heard by this ensemble, if you don't like this album this album or find fault you don't know quality music, sure Capella Del Minister don't make concensus as greatest ensemble some disagree, but this one yeah this one fabulous.

Capella Del Ministers is so underrated , okay there album are pricey but the quality the repertoire all they done, there are gems, worth checking out.

Any comment on this album, It's one of my favorite album of all time in Franco-Flemish music I adore this album.

Me and 27 Mensa musicologists of Switzerland think so, I gave it a more than decent 10 out 10, if you hate this album and you like ancient lore music, you don't know your stuff.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on October 30, 2021, 02:18:11 AM
Dominique Phinot, wrote awesome music the Brabant ensemble and to and an extent ensemble Scandinus, show it quite well, , the thing that irritate me is his Motets and is strength yet no album  made of his Motets only.It's a shame because his music was  great elaborated  whit finesse, okay not a role model in real life, but a great composer of obscure renaissance , active in urbino He got punished for wrongfull doing in Urbino Italy, we should have more of this composer.

I learn  that music is music, and personal life is obsolete my view, personal life not of interrest music is. All I heard of him was well crafted if I can't say .
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 31, 2021, 12:45:30 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on October 30, 2021, 01:38:35 AM
Greeting  there an album that stand out in my collection, It had many listen so far, was wondering what you think have you heard it.

Zamyra Byrd, Mandryka, QUE and etc...

This album extra ordinary, each time I would listen to this album, I was filled whit joy, an album of Capella Del Ministers by eminent director Carle Magraner, Cançonier DE Gandia, wow I mean WOW in caps locks this is a superb  album to be heard to be loved, perhaps I say perhaps one of the best ever made of this ensemble, the instrumental part if fantastic the voices are sublime, the climax is outstanding, one of the best album I heard by this ensemble, if you don't like this album this album or find fault you don't know quality music, sure Capella Del Minister don't make concensus as greatest ensemble some disagree, but this one yeah this one fabulous.

Capella Del Ministers is so underrated , okay there album are pricey but the quality the repertoire all they done, there are gems, worth checking out.

Any comment on this album, It's one of my favorite album of all time in Franco-Flemish music I adore this album.

Me and 27 Mensa musicologists of Switzerland think so, I gave it a more than decent 10 out 10, if you hate this album and you like ancient lore music, you don't know your stuff.

Thank you very much for making me aware of this recording out, it looks as though there are some interesting and rare things on it. I look forward to getting to know it.

I like very much the highly refined style of Capella de Ministrers in the few recordings I've heard - El Grial, for example. And the soundtrack to A Circle in the Water.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on October 31, 2021, 01:11:55 AM
Sorry guys, but always like a picture and preferably a link:  ;)

(https://capelladeministrers.com/media/com_hikashop/upload/thumbnails/500x500f/0004_canconergandia.jpg)

https://capelladeministrers.com/en/component/hikashop/cd/canconer-de-gandia-cd.html
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on November 01, 2021, 04:57:19 AM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 09, 2021, 08:18:37 AM
Well, I just finished listening to the recordings below on Spotify and enjoyed both - my Hogwood CD is just 52 mins in length and has dated sound - found a 'used' copy of Toll on Amazon USA and made a purchase - will replace the Hogwood (just loosing 3-4 pieces and picking up 5).  Thanks again for the suggestions.  Dave :)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkzOTMwOC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0NTQ0MDMwMjV9)  (https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODA3MzE4OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MzYzNTUxODF9)

You're probably not looking for Gibbons any more, but in case you are, see what you think of this. His frank and lyrical style in this recording - he's not the most nuanced keyboard player - puts me in mind of Tilney.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51LoTimChmL._AC_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on November 01, 2021, 01:36:16 PM
Quote from: SonicMan46 on September 09, 2021, 08:18:37 AM
Well, I just finished listening to the recordings below on Spotify and enjoyed both - my Hogwood CD is just 52 mins in length and has dated sound - found a 'used' copy of Toll on Amazon USA and made a purchase - will replace the Hogwood (just loosing 3-4 pieces and picking up 5).  Thanks again for the suggestions.  Dave :)

(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiNzkzOTMwOC4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0NTQ0MDMwMjV9)  (https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiODA3MzE4OS4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE0MzYzNTUxODF9)

I also had much pleasure from the Gibbons-CDs by James Johnstone:

https://www.amazon.de/Orlando-Gibbons-Music-Harpsichord-Virginals/dp/B01G7OFWYG/ref=sr_1_20?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&crid=1IXOEO466DWW2&dchild=1&keywords=orlando+gibbons&qid=1635802473&s=music&sprefix=orlando+gibbons%2Caps%2C168&sr=1-20

and Laurent Stewart (a CD with works by Gibbons and Byrd):

https://www.amazon.de/Cembalowerke-Laurent-Stewart-Cembalo/dp/B000024047/ref=sr_1_112?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&crid=1IXOEO466DWW2&dchild=1&keywords=orlando+gibbons&qid=1635802265&s=music&sprefix=orlando+gibbons%2Caps%2C168&sr=1-112
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on November 04, 2021, 08:43:01 AM
I just bought a mysterious LP'S set of The netherlands perhaps a set, since shipping was insane for USA, darn but here the vinyl in question not on discogs nor amazon this is a rare

(https://a.allegroimg.com/original/1ea277/f5020fda444ea4fae9f61e1c6161)

Carlo Gesualdo  on a mysterious setting of Poland not sure of the year it were release?

Perhaps someone know here, and older person from Poland or Slavic country, or whatever this is exiting, don't know what I am getting into but  seem rather old recordings, I'm nostalgic perhaps the 60'' early.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: North Star on November 05, 2021, 04:57:16 AM
According to Biblioteka Narodowego Instytutu Fryderyka Chopina w Warszawie, it was released in 1975.

http://biblioteka.nifc.pl/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=2720
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on November 05, 2021, 05:05:12 AM
Quote from: North Star on November 05, 2021, 04:57:16 AM
According to Biblioteka Narodowego Instytutu Fryderyka Chopina w Warszawie, it was released in 1975.

http://biblioteka.nifc.pl/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=2720

Thank you North Star  8)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on November 08, 2021, 06:31:55 PM
My turn to pull the string of knowledge into this world, a key composer in the ars subtilior is also the not has notorious Bortet or sometime called Borlet, maybe these are two separated composer, whit acronyms. Also Trébor his music was smokin in the most advance middle age period thee dawn of Renaissance.


He on ensemble Tetrakys, ensemble crawford young Ferrara 4 CD  bunch of long song's of him, his music quite , interesting and appealing.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on November 09, 2021, 08:34:41 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on November 08, 2021, 06:31:55 PM
My turn to pull the string of knowledge into this world, a key composer in the ars subtilior is also the not has notorious Bortet or sometime called Borlet, maybe these are two separated composer, whit acronyms. Also Trébor his music was smokin in the most advance middle age period thee dawn of Renaissance.


He on ensemble Tetrakys, ensemble crawford young Ferrara 4 CD  bunch of long song's of him, his music quite , interesting and appealing.

According to wiki Trebor is verlan for Robert.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on November 12, 2021, 11:28:17 PM
Crossposting from the WAYLT thread:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91bn1AbUdVL._AC_SX679_.jpg)

A significant release since I haven't heard more by German born Johannes Cleeff aka Johannes de Cleve than the motet that is included in volume I of the Leiden Choirbooks, and another motet and a tenor Lied on the recording Renaissance am Rhein by Singer Pur.

Johannes de Cleve was a composer active at the court of Ferdinand I and Charles II. He was presumably born in the Duchy of Cleves, and recruited into the court as a choirboy in the same way as Lassus and many others. He was originally a singer in Ferdinand's chapel in Vienna, but when Charles II organized a new chapel in Graz in 1564, he appointed de Cleve as the first Kapellmeister in Graz.

So, what to make of it?
Johannes de Cleve was not the brightest star in the Franco-Flemish firmament. A small master with a rather conservative style, dense with lots of counterpoint. I think the relative lack of clarity mentioned in some of the reviews is mainly on the composer and not on the performances by Cinquecento. For me the performances by Cinquecento elevate the music to a level that makes it worthwhile. Perhaps a little less polish and blending would have been even better. But overall, as a Franco-Flemish addict, I'm happy to have more by this composer. Nonetheless: not a top priority in Franco-Flemish repertoire or Cinquecento recordings, generally speaking.

https://earlymusicreview.com/johannes-de-cleve-missa-rex-babylonis/
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/cleve-missa-rex-babylonis-cinquecento
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2020/Jul/Cleve_missa_CDA68241.htm
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2020/Aug/Cleve-missa-CDA68241.htm
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on November 17, 2021, 10:33:21 PM
Cossposting from the WAYLT tgread:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81eEbcHmHPL._AC_SX679_.jpg)

Cinquecento's 1st Regnart recording was nice, but this is a IMO a significant step up. Cinquecento's strong points have always been their strong ensemble interplay and vocal blending. Here they achieve the sobriety and clarity suited for this music. And the amazing quality of the music makes it worth our while! Wonderfully done, one of their strongest recordings to date IMO. Strongly recommended.

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2021/Oct/Regnart-masses-CDA68369.htm

https://earlymusicreview.com/regnart-missa-christ-ist-erstanden/

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/regnart-missa-christ-ist-erstanden-and-other-works
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on November 20, 2021, 12:06:21 AM
It seems that the ensemble the sound and the fury is still very much alive!

November release, complete with cover in the usual style:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61881Trf6cL._SX425_.jpg)

https://frabernardo.com/portfolio-item/ockeghem-2-the-sound-and-the-fury/#tab-id-1

Needless to say that I will ignore the lack of stylish artwork, and will check this out to check for the occasional TSATF gemm....

EDIT:

My mistake to be mislead by Fra Bernardo.... It appears to be a reissue of the recording, previously issued by ORF. 
Also with a ridiculous cover, so not much improvement there.... ;)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71ZxvUKeijL._SX425_.jpg)
Title: Why is Johannes Tinctoris so underrated compared to Ockeghem?
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on November 21, 2021, 10:15:03 PM
Why musicologist fon't like him, I mean he a great theorician, by the way I am still alive, I was just saying hello there folks, and I love my NON-SUCH LP of Johannes Tinctoris a lot.

Paul Mc cartney said about beatles no  Lead belly no Beatles, well I would go just as far has saying no Tinctoris no Ockegem, he learn from Tinctoris improve from him?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on November 23, 2021, 05:53:28 PM
Quote from: Que on November 20, 2021, 12:06:21 AM
It seems that the ensemble the sound and the fury is still very much alive!

November release, complete with cover in the usual style:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61881Trf6cL._SX425_.jpg)

https://frabernardo.com/portfolio-item/ockeghem-2-the-sound-and-the-fury/#tab-id-1

Needless to say that I will ignore the lack of stylish artwork, and will check this out to check for the occasional TSATF gemm....

EDIT:

My mistake to be mislead by Fra Bernardo.... It appears to be a reissue of the recording, previously issued by ORF. 
Also with a ridiculous cover, so not much improvement there.... ;)

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71ZxvUKeijL._SX425_.jpg)

QUE hello nice sir kind soul wonderfull humans, I like to hear this The sound and the fury doeing Ockeghem woaw how can I go wrong whit this , this most be very mighty record, I'm sold out to Flemish, I'm an asset of Flander Belgium and The Netherlands, ask  the Dutch, thee Flemish only the best the smart the coolest folks , they would says yes deprofundis a beautiful mind, he like us, Dutch are honnest Flemish doeing awesome  renaissance music that paralel the genius of German Baroque in skill in polyphony, whit all due respect whit Germans, of course, Psst Flandria greatess folk, listen I know all the Jonannes  the great one of renaisance and pssit Walloons avec ton francais c'est bien sont jolie vos femmes en plus, spoken in frensch I don't undermine you're skill in renaissance, vive les peuple belgo , les Flemish , les Allemands Belge,  I am you're kind in exile you're speculative whiteout power sociological historic knowledge kind strategist in new world Amerika not a token boy, but I stay humble, Love my Beneluxian Citizens, of smart breed super mensa  yet fun and nice, I'm not on drug see, what I say beleive, we should have in amerika New Flandria , So my neighborhood become La petite Flandre, Flemish vassal of franco-flemish worshiper of skill in classical music, the most eminent  musicologist, tog gunners, I won't to form a mensa made of quebecer (Franco) AND Flemish built a good friendship between us, see  ressucitated classical music talent in montreal rosemont old rosemont in church,  Only Franco Flemish music I choose I am king and Dj,how about it, concert become spiritual gathering, chruch become full because amateur super ensemble star to grow in northen amerika quebec montreal Rosemont vieux Rosemont, district.

I like the sound of it the small Flandria or neo Flandria in amerika yeah and deprofundis has the humble king, some manner polite man, and I wont people to go to church because music is exclusively franco-Flemish of renaissanse the Great Josquin and Isaac, and some northen franken specimen I like Jachet De Mantoue or good once again northern Franken but this time the goodness of Goudimel, LeJeune , Lestocart. Masse become ancient mass of class common is there more classy and sexy to the hear has Frabco Flemish  prodige such has Crequillion, Clemens Or Ghizeghem, De Sayve hey! admit!!! I love you folks  ;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on November 23, 2021, 10:54:49 PM
Crossposting from the WAYLT thread:

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61sLNNq27HL._SX500_.jpg)

An ensemble new to me: Franco-Flemish, Belgian based, five singers.  This is their 2nd recording.

The composer is new to me as well, apart from a snippet or two. Some info:

Andreas Pevernage (1542/3–1591) is best remembered today as the choirmaster of Antwerp Cathedral and as the composer of several picture motets that are now classified as masterpieces of Flemish culture. Whilst Pevernage spent his entire professional career in Flanders, which may well have contributed to his music being less well known today, he was nonetheless considered as the equal of Orlandus Lassus, Clemens non Papa and Giaches de Wert during his lifetime: the quality of his music is in no wise inferior to the works of his more famous contemporaries. Pevernage adopted the innovations of the Italian madrigal and also breathed new life into the chansons of the Low Countries. This selection of works, mostly for five parts, is an invitation to discover his stylistic and creative diversity.

I liked the sound and approach of the ensemble, although technically they are OK but not impressive.
The music has the novelty factor, hence the Diapson d'Or "découverte". But perhaps in his time he was seen as an equal to the greatest, but unfortunately he isn't. It's nice, but for Late Renaissance this doesn't have the level of sophistication of Lassus or De Wert.


Perhaps I'll give this another go on Spotify some time, but for now it does not go onto the shopping list.
Title: Re: Why is Johannes Tinctoris so underrated compared to Ockeghem?
Post by: Cato on November 24, 2021, 04:47:18 PM
Quote from: deprofundis on November 21, 2021, 10:15:03 PM
Why musicologist fon't like him, I mean he a great theorician, by the way I am still alive, I was just saying hello there folks, and I love my NON-SUCH LP of Johannes Tinctoris a lot.

Paul Mc cartney said about beatles no  Lead belly no Beatles, well I would go just as far has saying no Tinctoris no Ockegem, he learn from Tinctoris improve from him?


Here is the NONESUCH recording: great company!


https://www.youtube.com/v/yZk6IhwhW9A
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: vers la flamme on November 24, 2021, 07:59:58 PM
Stupid question for you erudite folk: do you consider Schütz to be a Renaissance or a Baroque composer? Why?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on November 24, 2021, 11:40:07 PM
Baroque I think, becaus of less reliance on strict poyphony and more on the use of a firm bass.

My lack of theory in these matters is shown in my answer, but is is a good question. Is Beethoven a classicist or a romantic? It depends....and it is tempting to answer neither.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on November 25, 2021, 06:10:37 AM
Quote from: vers la flamme on November 24, 2021, 07:59:58 PM
Stupid question for you erudite folk: do you consider Schütz to be a Renaissance or a Baroque composer? Why?

Dear vers la flammes, I can answer you're question, Schutz is a composer of renaissance firmaly, but is music so evovle he is quasi Baroque.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: vers la flamme on November 25, 2021, 06:23:31 AM
Quote from: The new erato on November 24, 2021, 11:40:07 PM
Baroque I think, becaus of less reliance on strict poyphony and more on the use of a firm bass.

My lack of theory in these matters is shown in my answer, but is is a good question. Is Beethoven a classicist or a romantic? It depends....and it is tempting to answer neither.

I'm inclined to agree, with what little Schütz I've heard, anyway. If Monteverdi is a Baroque composer despite some harmonic flavors that resonate more with those of the Renaissance (yes I'm aware that the term "harmony" does not really apply vis à vis Renaissance music), then so is Schütz.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on November 25, 2021, 07:59:26 AM
I know nothing about Lassus, but it may be that some of his music is more renaissance style than baroque, some the other way round. I'd argue that that's the way it is with Trebaci and Monteverdi.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on November 29, 2021, 07:47:34 AM
Okay you sin and never pay attention to might of Jacob Obrecht did you actuall yah done this, repent whit the folowing CD whit a fantastic ensemble and sounds of Capella de le Torre ensemble , a humble  but very great label fur musik der rennaissance das itch Alte Musik for one solid composer, any aware people in musiclogist all agree whit me the rendition of works are sublime ans surreal, real darn good stuff I say.

;)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on November 29, 2021, 09:18:30 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on November 29, 2021, 07:47:34 AM
Okay you sin and never pay attention to might of Jacob Obrecht did you actuall yah done this, repent whit the folowing CD whit a fantastic ensemble and sounds of Capella de le Torre ensemble , a humble  but very great label fur musik der rennaissance das itch Alte Musik for one solid composer, any aware people in musiclogist all agree whit me the rendition of works are sublime ans surreal, real darn good stuff I say.

;)

Yes excellent. No better Obrecht on record.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on December 01, 2021, 03:24:19 PM
I order  Troubadour art ensemble LA TROBA direction Gerard Marcheto two CD quite expensive I say but sound awesome look awesome heck.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 01, 2021, 06:43:22 PM
Quote from: deprofundis on December 01, 2021, 03:24:19 PM
I order  Troubadour art ensemble LA TROBA direction Gerard Marcheto two CD quite expensive I say but sound awesome look awesome heck.

I'm afraid I don't like it, I think it is vulgar and tawdry.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on December 07, 2021, 06:10:58 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 01, 2021, 06:43:22 PM
I'm afraid I don't like it, I think it is vulgar and tawdry.

Well Mandryka I don't know about this recording only heard Rigaut DE Berbezith and find it ockay perhaps I am wrong...

I also order two Peter Philips sacred music, one on Naxos rooster, The other one look supreme  Choir of Trinity College Cambridge, Shutz Plasmens and to finnish this sweet  and spectacular  Ars Subtilior on Linn Label; Philip Cave Pickett, now please agree this is  strong album, why LINN offer quality recording built record player of best kind, and  produce excellent recordings, Philip Cave very talented director of ensemble, the choice of artists decent.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on December 07, 2021, 11:08:04 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on December 07, 2021, 06:10:58 AM
... and spectacular  Ars Subtilior on Linn Label; Philip Cave, now please agree this is  strong album, why LINN offer quality recording built record player of best kind, and  produce excellent recordings, Philip Cave very talented director of ensemble, the choice of artists decent.
Ars Subtilior on Linn  label, do you think of Philip Pickett (and not Cave) or is there some recording I don't know?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 07, 2021, 11:13:35 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on December 07, 2021, 06:10:58 AM
Well Mandryka I don't know about this recording only heard Rigaut DE Berbezith and find it ockay perhaps I am wrong...



Yes well those women singers have an authentic and characterful voice


https://www.youtube.com/v/MK5V3ffPPl8&ab_channel=Iranon

Some of the Guilhem De Peiteus on the same CD -- that's the sort of music making I don't like.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on December 07, 2021, 11:15:21 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 07, 2021, 11:13:35 AM
Yes well that woman singer has an authentic and characterful voice -- do you know her name?

No sir  ???
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on December 13, 2021, 12:12:34 AM
Dear folks into Ancient Lore, third most flamboyant, rich, colorfull and sunny, sweet folks, got n album that fantastic for Ars Subtilior Period, don't if new fairly new, perhaps so  never seen it so far, The Red Book of Ossuary, whit a delightfull choice of obscur name of Ars Subtilior on the French side of Ars Subtilior some anon, some notorious but mostly name here drawn my attention, the climax of this album is of rich Occitanian sound of passion and wonder, a pearl of an album, new complety to my eye, wow, awesome, splendid, pure magic.

Cher Mandryka j'espère que cet album va vous seduce la voix DE la chanteuse est fabulous ainsi que instrumentation, je recommend a vous cher ami.

I was Telling how much this album is outrageously good, sound like, prettier ars subtilior ala Ensemble Tetraktys, very rhythmic as I can hear & groovy, whit horn and all sort of good melody, real lounge in a way, confortable, I would says It an interesting very good  album to persevering smart one jazzy a bit in some way, I like it, the ensemble has is own recipe, is own unique ingredients, not that much fault or irritant, maybe not the best album I heard but certainly not the worst. At best a lovely album  a bit experimental at worst too daring but still decent enought to listen, tell me folks what yeah think hey, tell it to the olde boye deprofundis de name,sound modernism toss in for more daring ars subtilior. the ensemble seem Greek or has Greek name.

I'm continuing hearing there is synth? it's proggy new-age tinted, cabaret lounge like I said, modern yet the spirit is there.

Whit all this saying great or not so great, one  like it or not, I think so far it captivating, even if modern not for purist of genra, the experimention is  attention grabbing.

Please Have a nice day.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 13, 2021, 06:04:13 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on December 13, 2021, 12:12:34 AM
Dear folks into Ancient Lore, third most flamboyant, rich, colorfull and sunny, sweet folks, got n album that fantastic for Ars Subtilior Period, don't if new fairly new, perhaps so  never seen it so far, The Red Book of Ossuary, whit a delightfull choice of obscur name of Ars Subtilior on the French side of Ars Subtilior some anon, some notorious but mostly name here drawn my attention, the climax of this album is of rich Occitanian sound of passion and wonder, a pearl of an album, new complety to my eye, wow, awesome, splendid, pure magic.

Cher Mandryka j'espère que cet album va vous seduce la voix DE la chanteuse est fabulous ainsi que instrumentation, je recommend a vous cher ami.

I was Telling how much this album is outrageously good, sound like, prettier ars subtilior ala Ensemble Tetraktys, very rhythmic as I can hear & groovy, whit horn and all sort of good melody, real lounge in a way, confortable, I would says It an interesting very good  album to persevering smart one jazzy a bit in some way, I like it, the ensemble has is own recipe, is own unique ingredients, not that much fault or irritant, maybe not the best album I heard but certainly not the worst. At best a lovely album  a bit experimental at worst too daring but still decent enought to listen, tell me folks what yeah think hey, tell it to the olde boye deprofundis de name,sound modernism toss in for more daring ars subtilior. the ensemble seem Greek or has Greek name.

I'm continuing hearing there is synth? it's proggy new-age tinted, cabaret lounge like I said, modern yet the spirit is there.

Whit all this saying great or not so great, one  like it or not, I think so far it captivating, even if modern not for purist of genra, the experimention is  attention grabbing.

Please Have a nice day.

Here it is

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Book-Ossory-Caitriona-OLeary-Anakronos/dp/B085R74S74

It's medieval jazz fusion kind of thing. And she has a lovely voice.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on December 13, 2021, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 13, 2021, 06:04:13 AM
Here it is

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Book-Ossory-Caitriona-OLeary-Anakronos/dp/B085R74S74

It's medieval jazz fusion kind of thing. And she has a lovely voice.

Thanks for the clarifying additional information. Jazz fusion, hmmm..., I clearly have to investigate this.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on December 18, 2021, 04:24:06 PM
Well hello folks , I want you to make yah all jaleous, yes this is what I seek, not show off this is an old album CD media on Caliope:Tallis, Sheppard, Parson, Gentlemen of the Chapel Royal.

It featured awesome rendition of Ensemble Jachet DE Mantoue aka Jacquet Of Mantua, das verr Goode hey  8
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 20, 2021, 01:15:07 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on December 13, 2021, 10:28:13 AM
Thanks for the clarifying additional information. Jazz fusion, hmmm..., I clearly have to investigate this.

Well here's some Renaissance jazz for you

https://www.clicmusique.com/song-without-words-musique-instrumentale-renaissance-camerata-trajectina-p-108078.html?osCsid=dc7920247bb2a25cdb6cee75a30a1732
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on December 20, 2021, 12:28:17 PM
Greetings! folks

I'm into a Girolamo Frescobaldi his madrigals whit the following title that are very great.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71m8nD-DzQL._SS500_.jpg)

(Brilliant Classic) great recording.

And a new arrival Heinrich Schultz Cantationes Sacrae Philip Cave & Magnificat. I'm so amazed.

Frescobaldi great organist and great vocal music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 03, 2022, 07:44:33 AM
(https://img.discogs.com/snF2iO60QkEo3z6IU45kA_Qu_vs=/fit-in/600x594/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-6446417-1419425632-4110.jpeg.jpg)

This one's interesting.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on January 04, 2022, 11:22:39 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 03, 2022, 07:44:33 AM
(https://img.discogs.com/snF2iO60QkEo3z6IU45kA_Qu_vs=/fit-in/600x594/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-6446417-1419425632-4110.jpeg.jpg)

This one's interesting. Yes indeed
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on January 04, 2022, 06:17:07 PM
Dear  EMC proeminent menbers, everyone that care about English early polyphony should check out The Sisteen ensemble Robert Carver album  I had purchase it in cd  seem so unique in this world, unique has in John Browne music, kind of mystic in a way, and very pretty pallet of color employed, very underated music, I would say, order the CD album today but will listen to more of his work tonight, hello Mandryka, do you know this great polyphonist sir?

Bien le bonjour  8)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 05, 2022, 12:53:25 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on January 04, 2022, 06:17:07 PM
Dear  EMC proeminent menbers, everyone that care about English early polyphony should check out The Sisteen ensemble Robert Carver album  I had purchase it in cd  seem so unique in this world, unique has in John Browne music, kind of mystic in a way, and very pretty pallet of color employed, very underated music, I would say, order the CD album today but will listen to more of his work tonight, hello Mandryka, do you know this great polyphonist sir?

Bien le bonjour  8)

Bonne nouvelle année De Profundis

I certainly know Bjorn Schmelzer's recording of the Browne Stabat Mater, and Tonus Peregrinus's. DaveF, who posts here, is very knowledgeable about Browne and he rates The Sixteen highly. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on January 05, 2022, 03:34:12 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on December 20, 2021, 01:15:07 AM
Well here's some Renaissance jazz for you

https://www.clicmusique.com/song-without-words-musique-instrumentale-renaissance-camerata-trajectina-p-108078.html?osCsid=dc7920247bb2a25cdb6cee75a30a1732

Well, after some listening I conclude, that clarinet and saxophone aren't just my cup of tea in this repertoire. Nor do I find the interpretations as such remarkable.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on January 05, 2022, 04:00:11 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 03, 2022, 07:44:33 AM
(https://img.discogs.com/snF2iO60QkEo3z6IU45kA_Qu_vs=/fit-in/600x594/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-6446417-1419425632-4110.jpeg.jpg)

This one's interesting.

Ordered.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on January 06, 2022, 06:48:25 PM
Guillaume DE Machaut strangely complexe universeve of Chanson, virelai, Balades, Motets, Isorythmic Motets, yep ' I order a complete Machaut Motets and there is Isorythmic Motets I guess on AEON, it's Machaut complete Motets in two CD , sound promessing, don't you think fellows, and beside I am expection a NON-SUCH of Messe DE Notre-Dame, this is major hey Machaut chef d'oeuvre in analogue, what an LP, Machaut could be central classical to be in between in Ars Nova & Ars Subtilior.

Look at unusual song in his output,  there is Phyton Le Fabuleus Serpent, that is too me unusual groovy, what I mean is , his music was well ellaborated and refined for it's respective time, like Jehan Lescureil Chanson , whom before Machaut would constructed perfect songs, maybe someone who dig Machaut song's = Chanson might enjoy Jehan Lescureil, most probably so, I want to talk of these arist, Machaut Isorythmic motets and Lescureil most interesting album I know two of them, greeting folks, bonjour Mandryka  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 08, 2022, 03:06:39 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on January 06, 2022, 06:48:25 PM
Guillaume DE Machaut strangely complexe universeve of Chanson, virelai, Balades, Motets, Isorythmic Motets, yep ' I order a complete Machaut Motets and there is Isorythmic Motets I guess on AEON, it's Machaut complete Motets in two CD , sound promessing, don't you think fellows, and beside I am expection a NON-SUCH of Messe DE Notre-Dame, this is major hey Machaut chef d'oeuvre in analogue, what an LP, Machaut could be central classical to be in between in Ars Nova & Ars Subtilior.

Look at unusual song in his output,  there is Phyton Le Fabuleus Serpent, that is too me unusual groovy, what I mean is , his music was well ellaborated and refined for it's respective time, like Jehan Lescureil Chanson , whom before Machaut would constructed perfect songs, maybe someone who dig Machaut song's = Chanson might enjoy Jehan Lescureil, most probably so, I want to talk of these arist, Machaut Isorythmic motets and Lescureil most interesting album I know two of them, greeting folks, bonjour Mandryka  :)

I think you should hear Hilliard doing the Machaut motets. I think the impressive thing about Machaut's motets, apart from the musical interest, are (1) the texts -- he chose some crazy, bold texts, especially in the macaronic motets. And (2) the fact (arguably) that it's a cycle of 18 -- with a meaningful order representing a contemporary conception of spiritual journey.

Machaut certainly had a melodic gift, he may have had equals before (Philippe le Chancelier, Adam La Halle, Jeahan Lescurel) but who amongst his contemporaries could match his word settings? I think this is what Gothic Voices tried to explore -- anonymous music mostly.

Of course there's Philippe de Vitry to think about.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: PeterWillem on January 25, 2022, 02:25:51 AM
I was able to catch those two books written by Marcel Peres (in cooperation with other gentlemen). There are CDs added to those. Along some excerpts from various Ensemble Organum albums, one CD has 2 concert tracks not available anywhere while other CD contains 3 tracks made by other artists. There are two issues though. I don't have the CD player anymore (even in my PC) and I don't really speak French ;D I have two possible ways to go: either scan the books and run the input through OCR (Optical Character Recognition) or painstakingly copy entire text by hand and then run it through Google Translate and fix eventual errors manually.

(https://i.ibb.co/F0DQdpQ/20220125-114608.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 25, 2022, 09:48:47 AM
Quote from: PeterWillem on January 25, 2022, 02:25:51 AM
I was able to catch those two books written by Marcel Peres (in cooperation with other gentlemen). There are CDs added to those. Along some excerpts from various Ensemble Organum albums, one CD has 2 concert tracks not available anywhere while other CD contains 3 tracks made by other artists. There are two issues though. I don't have the CD player anymore (even in my PC) and I don't really speak French ;D I have two possible ways to go: either scan the books and run the input through OCR (Optical Character Recognition) or painstakingly copy entire text by hand and then run it through Google Translate and fix eventual errors manually.

(https://i.ibb.co/F0DQdpQ/20220125-114608.jpg)

I have the books and I can read French, but I didn't get a CD with them! Le chant de la mémoire was the most interesting to me.

Why don't you just learn to read French? It shouldn't take long to be able to read those books - five years maybe.  >:D
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: PeterWillem on January 26, 2022, 12:25:42 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on January 25, 2022, 09:48:47 AM
I have the books and I can read French, but I didn't get a CD with them! Le chant de la mémoire was the most interesting to me.
Hmm interesting. The description on publisher's website mentions that CDs are added. Maybe you bought some earlier edition? I will rip the CDs to FLAC files, upload them and send you a link.

Quote from: Mandryka on January 25, 2022, 09:48:47 AM
Why don't you just learn to read French? It shouldn't take long to be able to read those books - five years maybe.  >:D
I have this planned actually and I can understand quite a lot of individual words. Though I have obsession with digitizing everything I found valuable so I would scan those books anyway.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on January 26, 2022, 12:26:12 AM
I've read that Nigels Rogers is dead at 86. A really fine, and extremely important, early performer of early music, and an incredibly important influence on my musical interests and listening habits since the mid 1970ies. RIP.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on January 27, 2022, 09:50:17 AM
Hello

So I will tell ya my interrest these days, an ensemble I use to dislike a lot, an ensemble I would  not pay attention since I would be  always disaponted, Ensemble Clément Janequin lead by Dominique Visse, did not like there Missa Pangue Lingua of Josquin even if it featured also ensemble Organum & Marcel Pérès ?

But I discovered the force of Ensemble Clément Janequin would remain in French Chanson genre obviously.

What led me to this conclusion is the fact  that I bought six CD's on Ebay a mix Batch they were a CD of Janequin (the composer) La Chasse et autres Chansons, by Ensemble Clément Janequin,  featuring  Guillaume Morlaye, Adrian Le Roy and Janequin released in 1988, I was like darn this is good.

Eventually it leaded me to investigated Ensemble Clément Janequin in the depth more so , Order Clément Janequin, Le Chant des Oiseau  album, that was a good decent album, yet to forge an opinion I needed more recording stumble on a cheap to buy  and out of print box-set: Anthologie de la Chanson Polyphonique song of French Renaissance by same affored mention ensemble 3 CDs, Anthoine de Bertrand: Amours de Ronsard (a notorious French Poet), the one I am  listening right now, that is very good, the  second CD called Claude Le Jeune a French Protestant composer called: Meslanges Chansons et Fantaisie de viols whit ensemble Les Eléments, than the third album is Fricassée Parisienne an album of mix French Chanson whit mix composers of the era. I know this album I use to have it in a lousy download, now I have it.

One thing one should understand, is some ensemble are better in specific genre and real good, I.e  Ensemble Clément Janequin for French Chansons. I've could had said the same about other ensembles.

Look at Ensemble Diabolus In musica, now sorry dear folks of this ensemble I was often disapointed whit result but they most have good release and specific strenghts?

Beside this don't want to bash them too mutch. I heard QUE on an Ockeghem release he find great and I beleive him. Have a great day folks.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 27, 2022, 10:20:22 AM
Love their latest Dufay - Missa Avé Regina Celorum. It's less less muscular and more sweet and lyrical than their normal stuff, which suits me perfectly.

The Ciconia too is well worth a butchers.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on February 01, 2022, 01:04:08 PM
Dear fellas of GMG that I love, I most share whit you what I just order, the LP is mint and it's Capella Cordina not the re-release on arion but original pressing of 1974, now that sexy hey, the sleeve is deap pale purple acolor I like usually of the 70'', the sleeve of Capella Cordina are always a big plus, may I say top notch and who  here can resist these dense robust thick sion of LP that make an awesome sounds thus said even for it's time,.

Had it in download buck heck it's the original LP  The Florentine renaissance, whit the great thee first emitator of Franco-Flemish in Italy, this is one of these composer that you will suffer find some in CD complete CD, perhaps lousy low fidelity streaming , no gorgeously attractive mauve sleeve and midle of LP, I'm impress, the devild were prada, the devil is meticuleous, the devil a woman, lol , just kidding honnest, I'm meticuleous for detail almost all and al, sleeve condition ,color use , art, purticular ensemble & director. year it's been publish, the label that release it, perhaps more not full of darn lousy sticker you can pul out in rick of damaging the sleeve, sometime these dummy put them on center of vynil of write on vynil, enought ot get you exceded and upset just relatively so.

What about other detail well the notes insdes or on sleeve, no scratch this is obvious.

Are you meticuleous moreso than a woman when buying record and demand excellenece! mint! sweetness.

And to return to the subject did Layolle other work were publish outside Capella Cordina ? Aléjandro Planchart fabuleous, quite brilliant director I honnor my Lyricord or my favorite you can bet on this, that in In music of the Kingdom of Burgundy (La Bourgonde) vf- french.

I f I lie quality thick  volimineux great hi-fi sound for renaissance than, what should be my favorite Label Perhaps Caliope LP pretty shure they have good awesome renaissance stuff in LP, has a man of taste , please tell me folks ean ensemble that rival Capella Cordina in Geneous, durinf 60''-early 70'' whit a good decent label, perhaps Eterna the Eastern Germany R.D.A release has stuff to offer, worth to check out.

Anyway this wax my ''salade du chef of thoughtS, please contributed of elabored on Francesco Layolle please on my composers post, little favor, I ask the one that care, for musicology accademic sake, any other  almost unknow was done in European country?

Thankyou so much for understanding or caring, Francesco Layolle is a new name for me so far even if I had it streaming, I have a little dose of dislike for the sound compared to LP wich I really like.

Farewell than, lateron , and thank you for reading or responding,  or elaborated on other firstly Italian Franco-Flemish Imitators?

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on February 04, 2022, 10:19:09 AM
One recording I find very excellent, well done, just perfect, perhaps a triumph for director Jeremy Summerly and the roses consort, awesome varied music here  of different composers of the era of  Bruegel, it's Called Bruguel and music of it's time.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 14, 2022, 09:33:50 AM
For those who can listen to the BBC,  Hannah French uncovers the amazing story of a 15th-century songbook rediscovered in 2014 -- familiar to us -- the Leuven Chansonnier

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001078m
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 14, 2022, 09:43:17 AM
And here's the Leuven Chansonnier

https://repository.teneo.libis.be/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE9381778

If you go to page/leaf/recto  013_1r you will find a medieval anticipation of John Cage's greatest music.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: PeterWillem on February 16, 2022, 11:26:47 AM
 ;D

I've seen those pages with blank lines in various manuscripts. I wonder what scribe was thinking back then. Was that "I hate this song and won't add it" or "dang, I lost my sketch for this somewhere" or "I'll do that one later"?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 22, 2022, 12:32:30 PM
(https://www.bayardmusique.com/cover/hd/1949/cantigas-de-santa-maria-d-alphonse-le-sage-ensemble-obsidienne.jpg)

Missed this one, released Autumn last year. Bonnardot, the inimitable Bonardot, is in fine fettle.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on February 25, 2022, 05:41:51 PM
Dear Folks of  EMC on GMG!

Here something  I discovered, once I was  a couple of time deceived by Ensemble  Diabolus In Musica, now after Hearing 3 of there album on Guillaume DUFAY, It's  very good, the music marvelous I have three albums in streaming but  the sound is good so his the performance
Ensemble
[asin]Dufay Missa se la face ey pale (a delight) By Diabolus In Musica a  fameous Mass, Diabolus in musica [/asin]
[asin]Dufay Milles Bonjours (very pleasing) it cosist of Chanson  genre[/asin]
[asin]Dufay Reine du ciel: Missa ave Regina Celorum (VERY  SUPER JOB)[/asin]

And I use to have  Johannes Ockeghem requiem wich was  a  wonderfull recording of Ockeghem.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on April 18, 2022, 08:56:15 AM
Discover a new title, that caugh my eye's my attention, whit a colorful presentation of art reminescent of Bosch, very nice sleeve, let me tell yah all at first and foremost, this contain 2 CD of early renaissance whit:
1-  Guillaume Dufay aka Du Fay
the one the only, got an obsession for collection his mass, most likelly trought LP media, perhaps CD, a lost of streamings, sadely streaming no that good. but better than nothing.

So were we ah yes blast, a Mysterious album:
Vox Coelo Chants de Dévotion a Saint Abbé CD.
[asin]Vox de Coelo, Chants De Dévotion a Saint Abbé. on label Andiamo [/asin]Production. Look's super, but booklet is glued to CD box, but beside this details I can and will live whit that.

Ensemble Vox In Rama
Mathieu Lancian: Contre-Ténor
Frédéric Rantières: Ténor
Laurent Mallet: Barython
Daniel Guillot: Basse

Frédéric Rantières: Directeur  Artistique et  Musical.

14 TRACKS cd 1,12 TRACKS cd 2.

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on April 18, 2022, 09:40:32 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on April 18, 2022, 08:56:15 AM
Discover a new title, that caugh my eye's my attention,

Ensemble Vox In Rama
Mathieu Lancian: Contre-Ténor
Frédéric Rantières: Ténor
Laurent Mallet: Barython
Daniel Guillot: Basse

Frédéric Rantières: Directeur  Artistique et  Musical.

Thanks. I shall investigate that one.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on April 21, 2022, 12:10:51 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on April 18, 2022, 09:40:32 AM
Thanks. I shall investigate that one.

Yes, get it, it's exceptional.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/VOX-CAELO-CHANTS-DEVOTION-ANTOINE/dp/B08BV19BJ8
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JBS on April 26, 2022, 07:13:10 PM
Crosspost from the main listening thread

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/511WZuhmhCL.jpg)(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51qmGCBmLoL.jpg)
English instrumental music c 1550-1650, much of it written for or associated with Jacobean era masques.  Instruments used include violins, violone grande, violone piccolo, viola da gamba, cornets, sackbuts, organ, cembalo, virginal, lute, theorbo, dulcian, recorder, and an unspecified percussion (the group photograph in the liner notes shows a large drum carried by a cloth over the shoulder). The liner notes detail which instruments appear on which track.
Pleasant entertainment--which was after all the purpose this music was written for.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on April 30, 2022, 02:00:11 PM
Josquin Despreez in Italia Odhecation -Paolo da col - Th Gesualdo Six . All of this on this incredible Josquin album on Arcana Outhere Music, Ah yes this is an award winning winner, heard a lot of Josquin and thought , blast not Josquin again and again...  >:( but everything fine the program, his splendor:
1- As Opener featured a Motet the infameous Praeter rerum seriem a 6 vox tracks 1-2 , Missa Hercules dux Ferrariae a 4-6 vox, tracks 3-5 Tu solus qui Facis mirabilla a 4 vox, follow of course by IV Sanctus , V Agneus Dei

Giosquino
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on May 15, 2022, 10:06:44 AM
My wish to day is to talk about the theme in renaissance of Spain & the New World, music I am revisting whit few release very  great, will talk about the one of course, my comment and why is Spanish New World so darn fascinating.

Ok what about a very good entry in the subject SPAIN and the New  Worldthis double album is captivating, 2 hours 10+ minutes, nearly bought this one, seen it on the market and darn it was expensive so had to download it and the download was not a give away either at almost 30$ + another album I also download from Presto Music amother very good title: Los Ministries in the  New World.

I had the excellent Michael Cohen directed Nueva Espana and Spain in the New World my favorite so far and first entries in subject on Ricercar I presume judging by sleeve.

What is so appealing about music of New World it's groovy, heck it's Spanish and instrumentation is sunny like castagnetas and so on.

Any other worth to mention release, that should be point out has colorful & sunny or warm if you preffer, musically speaking.

So what is your view on this subject  in the depth, any album I am missing out on, if I like this kind of perticular theme music. 
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on May 17, 2022, 02:48:32 AM
Quote from: deprofundis on May 15, 2022, 10:06:44 AM
My wish to day is to talk about the theme in renaissance of Spain & the New World, music I am revisting whit few release very  great, will talk about the one of course, my comment and why is Spanish New World so darn fascinating.

Ok what about a very good entry in the subject SPAIN and the New  Worldthis double album is captivating, 2 hours 10+ minutes, nearly bought this one, seen it on the market and darn it was expensive so had to download it and the download was not a give away either at almost 30$ + another album I also download from Presto Music amother very good title: Los Ministries in the  New World.

I had the excellent Michael Cohen directed Nueva Espana and Spain in the New World my favorite so far and first entries in subject on Ricercar I presume judging by sleeve.

What is so appealing about music of New World it's groovy, heck it's Spanish and instrumentation is sunny like castagnetas and so on.

Any other worth to mention release, that should be point out has colorful & sunny or warm if you preffer, musically speaking.

So what is your view on this subject  in the depth, any album I am missing out on, if I like this kind of perticular theme music.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Music-Conquest-Thomas-Crecquillon/dp/B000026CRT/ref=tmm_acd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Antigua-Tecla-Nuevo-Mundo-Videla/dp/B01KAPBEWW/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1211FS2Z9AF5R&keywords=Mario+Videla&qid=1652784559&s=music&sprefix=mario+videla+%2Cpopular%2C44&sr=1-2-catcorr


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zipoli-Sonate-dintavolatura-cimbalo-Domenico/dp/B000024MRT/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1NO1DQIV29493&keywords=zipoli+vartolo&qid=1652784459&s=music&sprefix=zipoli+vartolo%2Cpopular%2C49&sr=1-1
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on May 25, 2022, 12:55:10 PM
(https://www.carusmedia.com/images-intern/medien//80/8352400/8352400u.jpg)

This was potentially an exciting release, because the Choralis Constantinus is one of those legendary anthologies which has been little recorded. However, I think it is disappointing. The singing is a bit generic, there's no sense of individual personalities in the voices, they don't sound inspired. To compound things the sound quality is no more than OK.

One problem is the size of the outfit - here's a pic of Ensemble Cantissimo.

(https://www.spektral-records.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/16149_cantissimo-460x456.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on June 05, 2022, 02:04:30 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 25, 2022, 12:55:10 PM
(https://www.carusmedia.com/images-intern/medien//80/8352400/8352400u.jpg)

This was potentially an exciting release, because the Choralis Constantinus is one of those legendary anthologies which has been little recorded. However, I think it is disappointing. The singing is a bit generic, there's no sense of individual personalities in the voices, they don't sound inspired. To compound things the sound quality is no more than OK.

One problem is the size of the outfit - here's a pic of Ensemble Cantissimo.

(https://www.spektral-records.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/16149_cantissimo-460x456.jpg)

Dear Monsieur, I had same problem whit generic or overdone by Dorothee Mields on vocal  soprano duty, by Basevi Codex, this uspet me the voice is sometime ackward but since Im fair play, The program of the CD  Basevi Codex Music as the Court of Margaret of Austria. This messire you should avoid .

But if you want to hear a solid release try the  new fresh  taste of Melancolia Ensemble, Musica Temprana. Adrian Rodriguez Van Der Spoel, you yes you watching while get this actual composer called Adrian Rodriguez van der Spoel, whit a list of anonymous yet fascinating repertory of  fairly obscur composer to my knowledge, only knowing one  called Pedro De Escobar ( my favorite Dealer) of polyphony of this foggy spanish era 15th century, what about the other , well wait up Im keeping them ostage for later one  ;)

Yes so spill it out Deprofundis: Johannes Urrede (one of the law strong then physic if you like the Johannes of renaissance there is a lot to explore , I win win name. = john = Jean. Garci Sanchez de Badajoz, Juan Ponce, even a mexica anonyms this is nice hey and El canto De la Sibille ''versus Sybile Prophete anonymous 15 century mundo bene, Listen Mandryka this album is for you!

Tha about it  and lastly what do you guys  in EMC like or not the Gesualdo Six Ensemble, I real like there releases of Tallis Jeremiah Lament and Gesualdo Tenebrae Responsoria, very good , and folks stop saying studd like english  or brittish  ensemble are too square in rendition or performance, as predictable and square, I find this ensemble marvelous , splendid, genius.



Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 13, 2022, 01:57:51 PM
Quote from: Que on June 12, 2022, 07:45:04 AM
Interesting, I'll definitely give them [Dionysos Now! Willaert] a listen!  :)

Luckily the recordings are available in physical form... on vinyl...  :P

I'm listening to Missa Mittit ad Virginum now. What I'm getting is that this music must sound astonishing, fabulous, in a cathedral. Dionysos Now! aren't beautiful like Cinquecento, but they are very intense, involved, clearly excited to be creating the music. Altogether, a thrilling performance.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on June 13, 2022, 02:00:08 PM
Quote from: deprofundis on June 05, 2022, 02:04:30 PMPedro De Escobar ( my favorite Dealer)

MDR!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Carlo Gesualdo on June 14, 2022, 10:12:56 AM
Monsieur Mandryka, sir you know my reputation here is all I have my impression of a great record, not to be miss out on if you like early vocal music like Chants called MEDIEVAL BYZANTINE CHANT- listen to this album by Capella Romana, the same ensemble that did The Fall of Constantinople. Very relaxing moody not drab at all, the voice sound inspired by Ottoman ., this music for the Feast of January 1th &6th
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on June 28, 2022, 04:52:34 AM
Collegium Vocale Koln: Madrigals - Monteverdi, Download, Gibbons, Gesualdo & others.


(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/uYYAAOSwUKVdfW3X/s-l1600.jpg)


The rather dismissive "others" includes music by such composers as Josquin, De La Rue, Jannequin, Lassus, Morley, Arcadelt and Willaert! This quality vocal presentation is very clear and well balanced.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on July 11, 2022, 04:35:21 AM
Music in the Age of Leonardo Da Vinci [Ensemble Claude-Gervaise]


(https://i.discogs.com/kZEN0Zfc3f-gDWnfur2E5NCWTakjhpkgolb43KdnSNQ/rs:fit/g:sm/q:40/h:300/w:300/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTI2MzM2/MzItMTQ1NzQyMzY4/NS0xMzE2LmpwZWc.jpeg)


This music features a number of different composers as well as the ubiquitous Anonymous. The music includes vocal and purely instrumental elements. I find the main vocalist, Cécile Gendron, to be quite pleasant to listen to. All of the musicians play very well both individually and collectively. However, what I particularly like about this album is the textures and sonorities of the instruments featured.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on July 11, 2022, 10:54:11 AM
Quote from: aligreto on July 11, 2022, 04:35:21 AM
Music in the Age of Leonardo Da Vinci [Ensemble Claude-Gervaise]


(https://i.discogs.com/kZEN0Zfc3f-gDWnfur2E5NCWTakjhpkgolb43KdnSNQ/rs:fit/g:sm/q:40/h:300/w:300/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTI2MzM2/MzItMTQ1NzQyMzY4/NS0xMzE2LmpwZWc.jpeg)


This music features a number of different composers as well as the ubiquitous Anonymous. The music includes vocal and purely instrumental elements. I find the main vocalist, Cécile Gendron, to be quite pleasant to listen to. All of the musicians play very well both individually and collectively. However, what I particularly like about this album is the textures and sonorities of the instruments featured.

Here is a little more information about the content and musicians:

https://www.discogs.com/master/1174324-Ensemble-Claude-Gervaise-Music-In-The-Age-Of-Leonardo-Da-Vinci-Musique-Au-Temps-De-L%C3%A9onard-De-Vinci
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: LKB on July 11, 2022, 02:32:01 PM
Another plug for the King's Singers Josquin on RCA from the '90's. It really is quite good:

https://www.amazon.com/Renaissance-Josquin-Desprez-Simon-Carrington/dp/B000003FK2/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?crid=2IUESJVDK4UB3&keywords=Josquin+kings+Singers&qid=1657578573&sprefix=josquin+kings+singers%2Caps%2C309&sr=8-5
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on July 11, 2022, 02:45:34 PM
Quote from: (: premont :) on July 11, 2022, 10:54:11 AM
Here is a little more information about the content and musicians:

https://www.discogs.com/master/1174324-Ensemble-Claude-Gervaise-Music-In-The-Age-Of-Leonardo-Da-Vinci-Musique-Au-Temps-De-L%C3%A9onard-De-Vinci

Thank you for the information.  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: coffee on July 14, 2022, 11:39:35 AM
The Leuven Chansonnier is very interesting. Thanks for sharing that.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on July 14, 2022, 07:03:56 PM
Quote from: coffee on July 14, 2022, 11:39:35 AM
The Leuven Chansonnier is very interesting. Thanks for sharing that.

I thought the second Leuven Chansonnier CD that Sollazzo ensemble made was a bit disappointing, the music didn't seem so interesting. I'd be interested to hear other people's reactions.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: coffee on July 14, 2022, 09:13:54 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 14, 2022, 07:03:56 PM
I thought the second Leuven Chansonnier CD that Sollazzo ensemble made was a bit disappointing, the music didn't seem so interesting. I'd be interested to hear other people's reactions.

I don't dislike very much music, and I usually assume that almost all the people involved in making a recording have better knowledge about what they're doing than I do, so I can't help you with this.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on July 17, 2022, 01:35:21 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on July 14, 2022, 07:03:56 PM
I thought the second Leuven Chansonnier CD that Sollazzo ensemble made was a bit disappointing, the music didn't seem so interesting. I'd be interested to hear other people's reactions.

Recalling it now I had much the same reaction as you, and this may be the reason why I haven't listened to it more than once.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: coffee on July 25, 2022, 08:06:02 PM
I happened to pick up Chants de la liturgie slavonne by the Choeur des Moines de Chevetogne (I think that's something like Chants of the Slavic Liturgy by the Choir of the Monks of Chevetogne Abbey, in Belgium) but I haven't heard it yet.

Anyone heard this?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on July 25, 2022, 10:51:50 PM
Quote from: coffee on July 25, 2022, 08:06:02 PM
I happened to pick up Chants de la liturgie slavonne by the Choeur des Moines de Chevetogne (I think that's something like Chants of the Slavic Liturgy by the Choir of the Monks of Chevetogne Abbey, in Belgium) but I haven't heard it yet.

Anyone heard this?

Yes, as a matter of fact, I have almost all their recordings. If your into this kind of music  it's worth your while.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on July 25, 2022, 10:56:33 PM
Quote from: coffee on July 25, 2022, 08:06:02 PM
I happened to pick up Chants de la liturgie slavonne by the Choeur des Moines de Chevetogne (I think that's something like Chants of the Slavic Liturgy by the Choir of the Monks of Chevetogne Abbey, in Belgium) but I haven't heard it yet.

Anyone heard this?

I know Harry is the connaisseur here! :)
Slavic chant used to be quite popular, but I hardly ever see it on these pages anymore.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on August 12, 2022, 02:35:02 AM
I keep forgetting where early organ music goes. Anyway, is Bovet the real deal?
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61aololnbiL.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on August 12, 2022, 03:30:24 AM
Quote from: milk on August 12, 2022, 02:35:02 AM
I keep forgetting where early organ music goes. Anyway, is Bovet the real deal?

if you are interested in the organ and the oldest surviving keyboard music (Codex Robertsbridge) this CD fulfills the wish rather well. I have heard a few of Bovet's organ recordings and also heard him live at a recital and never found him disappointing.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8065533--guy-bovet-a-lorgue-de-la-basilique-de-valere-1390-the-worlds-oldest-playable-organ
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: aligreto on August 16, 2022, 01:49:13 AM
Cross post from the Listening Thread


O Magnum Mysterium:


(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61wC9CoRbiL._AC_.jpg)



I feel that I must make a comment regarding this set as I have enjoyed it enormously for both its content and the consistent quality of its presentations of the music. 

The signature sound of Schola Cantorum Stuttgart is truly wonderful throughout this set in representing this genre of music. Gottwald consistently focuses on reproducing the music directly and continuously to the best effect. I believe that he very much succeeds in this endeavour. The choir consistently sounds very rich and full in its range of sonorities which consistently enhances the delivery of this music. It is also recorded in a warm and benign acoustic throughout. The set comes highly recommended for its thoroughly enjoyable performances throughout.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: milk on August 16, 2022, 02:06:53 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on August 12, 2022, 03:30:24 AM
if you are interested in the organ and the oldest surviving keyboard music (Codex Robertsbridge) this CD fulfills the wish rather well. I have heard a few of Bovet's organ recordings and also heard him live at a recital and never found him disappointing.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8065533--guy-bovet-a-lorgue-de-la-basilique-de-valere-1390-the-worlds-oldest-playable-organ
Thanks!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on September 15, 2022, 11:40:53 PM
Quote from: The new erato on September 15, 2022, 11:38:38 PM
On vacation my only possible contribution is

Can't see the picture, but where are you travelling?  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on September 16, 2022, 05:23:26 AM
Quote from: Que on September 15, 2022, 11:40:53 PM
Can't see the picture, but where are you travelling?  :)
Thought I had deleted my post. Tried to post a picture from the church where Vivaldi were baptized, but it was too big andI had no easy way to reduce the size on my phone.

Have been to Bolzano, Mantova, Cremona. Padova, Venezia so far in September. Currently in Ferrara and aiming for Cinque Terre tomorrow. Spent the best part of a day in the Gonzaga palace.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on September 16, 2022, 09:19:34 AM
Quote from: The new erato on September 16, 2022, 05:23:26 AM
Thought I had deleted my post. Tried to post a picture from the church where Vivaldi were baptized, but it was too big andI had no easy way to reduce the size on my phone.

Have been to Bolzano, Mantova, Cremona. Padova, Venezia so far in September. Currently in Ferrara and aiming for Cinque Terre tomorrow. Spent the best part of a day in the Gonzaga palace.

Wonderful!  :) I thought Ferrara was magical. Cinque Terre is utterly charming in a totally different way.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on October 12, 2022, 02:09:38 PM
Anyone noticed this one before?

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/W/IMAGERENDERING_521856-T1/images/I/61d6TuE+LkL._SY500_.jpg)

https://frabernardo.com/portfolio-item/tinctoris-barbingant-masses-beauty-farm/
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: The new erato on October 12, 2022, 08:57:38 PM
Yes, and it has been mentioned in the new releases thread quite some time ago.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on October 12, 2022, 10:43:53 PM
Quote from: The new erato on October 12, 2022, 08:57:38 PM
Yes, and it has been mentioned in the new releases thread quite some time ago.

Thnx. I must have missed it.... :) Going to line it up for a listen on Spotify!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on October 12, 2022, 11:46:37 PM
Quote from: Que on October 12, 2022, 10:43:53 PM
Thnx. I must have missed it.... :) Going to line it up for a listen on Spotify!

Its on my order list too, as Erato said it is already quite some time available, and after listening to the samples I found it to be quite good. Let us know what you make of it after listening.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 13, 2022, 12:02:46 AM
Quote from: Que on October 12, 2022, 02:09:38 PM
Anyone noticed this one before?

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/W/IMAGERENDERING_521856-T1/images/I/61d6TuE+LkL._SY500_.jpg)

https://frabernardo.com/portfolio-item/tinctoris-barbingant-masses-beauty-farm/

The Barbignant credo is magical. I felt a sudden urge to genuflect.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 22, 2022, 08:47:35 AM
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTM3MTY5My4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2NjI2NDMwMDN9)

https://static.qobuz.com/goodies/34/000152843.pdf


This is a concert recording, and all the better for it IMO! Really lovely singing, I'd say well judged for elapsed time in the big lay. Gentlemen, this is a goody.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Que on October 22, 2022, 08:55:22 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 22, 2022, 08:47:35 AM
(https://d1iiivw74516uk.cloudfront.net/eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwcmVzdG8tY292ZXItaW1hZ2VzIiwia2V5IjoiOTM3MTY5My4xLmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6OTAwfSwianBlZyI6eyJxdWFsaXR5Ijo2NX0sInRvRm9ybWF0IjoianBlZyJ9LCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2NjI2NDMwMDN9)

https://static.qobuz.com/goodies/34/000152843.pdf


This is a concert recording, and all the better for it IMO! Really lovely singing, I'd say well judged for elapsed time in the big lay. Gentlemen, this is a goody.

Noted!  :)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JBS on October 27, 2022, 04:12:49 AM
Crosspost from the main listening thread

Early morning listening
The electric guitar fits in very well, the ondes Martonet doesn't but still works, the piece played on synthesizer sticks out like a lump of coal in a bowl of chowder.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61rqUZMQ5HL._SY780_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51+F6wkau1L._SY350_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 27, 2022, 05:22:26 AM
Quote from: JBS on October 27, 2022, 04:12:49 AM
Crosspost from the main listening thread

Early morning listening
The electric guitar fits in very well, the ondes Martonet doesn't but still works, the piece played on synthesizer sticks out like a lump of coal in a bowl of chowder.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61rqUZMQ5HL._SY780_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51+F6wkau1L._SY350_.jpg)

De gustibus etc etc!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on October 27, 2022, 06:30:48 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 27, 2022, 05:22:26 AM
De gustibus etc etc!

Freely translated:

Disgust can't be disputed.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Harry on October 27, 2022, 06:41:43 AM
Quote from: (: premont :) on October 27, 2022, 06:30:48 AM
Freely translated:

Disgust can't be disputed.

Right! :)
The Titelouze and Schildt arrive tomorrow, I am quite curious.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JBS on October 27, 2022, 07:31:18 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 27, 2022, 05:22:26 AM
De gustibus etc etc!

It's probably worth streaming once. Most of it is a capella or with period appropriate instruments, anyway, and the electric keyboard* doesn't stand out. Only the synthesizer is bad, and it's only one track.

*this morning I wrote guitar; mea culpa.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on October 28, 2022, 04:10:41 PM
Quote from: JBS on October 27, 2022, 07:31:18 PM
It's probably worth streaming once. Most of it is a capella or with period appropriate instruments, anyway, and the electric keyboard* doesn't stand out. Only the synthesizer is bad, and it's only one track.

Electric keyboard and synthesizer for DesPres maks me shiver all over. ???
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on November 03, 2022, 09:48:27 AM
Trying to make up my mind whether to see cinquecento in London on Monday. There's a Tye mass I haven't even heard of, The Mean Mass. Makes me think of Molière's L'Avarre!

No use googling it, you just get loads of stuff about calculating the mean mass in kg of a bunch of things.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: JBS on November 03, 2022, 07:04:22 PM
There's a recording of it reviewed by Classics Today with a bit of information on it. It seems its official name is the Peterhouse Mass.
https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-3252/
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on November 03, 2022, 07:50:33 PM
Quote from: JBS on November 03, 2022, 07:04:22 PM
There's a recording of it reviewed by Classics Today with a bit of information on it. It seems its official name is the Peterhouse Mass.
https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-3252/

Thanks - I'm listening now. And of course, I booked a seat at the concert!
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on November 07, 2022, 11:26:02 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 03, 2022, 07:50:33 PM
Thanks - I'm listening now. And of course, I booked a seat at the concert!

Which turned out to be an enjoyable hour -- it's going to be broadcast and streamed. The high point for me was the Tallis lamentation and a piece by Byrd which was very contrapuntal. The Tye mass was certainly interesting in the Gloria and Sanctus. Cinquecento are the sort of singers who've thought hard about how to present their music, the focus is on sound and not on meaning. They are Bildungsbuergertum.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on January 30, 2023, 09:31:15 AM
The end is nigh

http://www.orlandoconsort.com/news.htm
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Traverso on February 10, 2023, 05:23:53 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 07, 2022, 11:26:02 AMWhich turned out to be an enjoyable hour -- it's going to be broadcast and streamed. The high point for me was the Tallis lamentation and a piece by Byrd which was very contrapuntal. The Tye mass was certainly interesting in the Gloria and Sanctus. Cinquecento are the sort of singers who've thought hard about how to present their music, the focus is on sound and not on meaning. They are Bildungsbuergertum.

At least organized/ordered sound, what we call music today. The music or sound can be helpful in freeing the meaning from its dogmatic corset, although the mind will tend to return it to a limited, comprehensible concept.
It is the gravity of our conditioning.
Happy are we when the curtain is drawn back and the doors of perception open and give us glimpses beyond conception.

We cannot grasp the essence of things but we can be part of it.(in moments)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 10, 2023, 09:44:54 AM
Quote from: Traverso on February 10, 2023, 05:23:53 AMThe music or sound can be helpful in freeing the meaning from its dogmatic corset


The meaning of what?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Traverso on February 10, 2023, 10:07:17 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 10, 2023, 09:44:54 AMThe meaning of what?

Good question,
Quote from: Mandryka on February 10, 2023, 09:44:54 AMThe meaning of what?

Good quention,I'm afraid that we are moving into too rarefied realms. What I am trying to say is that what we can experience may be more than what words indicate.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on February 10, 2023, 10:31:43 AM
Quote from: Traverso on February 10, 2023, 10:07:17 AMGood question,
Good quention,I'm afraid that we are moving into too rarefied realms. What I am trying to say is that what we can experience may be more than what words indicate.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Traverso on February 10, 2023, 11:47:41 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on February 10, 2023, 10:31:43 AMWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen


  Indeed....
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on May 02, 2023, 06:12:46 AM
Hanai briefly explains about L'homme Arme his group will perform next month.

https://www.cappellajp.com/concert


(https://www.cappellajp.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/%E3%82%AB%E3%83%9A%E3%83%A92306%E3%82%AA%E3%83%A2%E3%83%86-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on May 02, 2023, 06:22:52 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on April 12, 2023, 11:32:25 PMCan't help feel that the move from Josquin to Palestrina is a move in the wrong direction (forward, where the music IMO deteriorated, rather than back.)  Caron is a good idea though, a very good idea!


Hanai's view/opinion.

https://fonsfloris.blogspot.com/2023/01/1.html
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on May 02, 2023, 08:36:55 AM
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on May 02, 2023, 06:22:52 AMHanai's view/opinion.

https://fonsfloris.blogspot.com/2023/01/1.html

Thanks, and I can see how a modal Palestrina mass may be interesting - by modal I mean Hanai's highly introspective style. The article prompted me to listen to Palestrina's Salve Regina, which I couldn't remember. I'm afraid the performance I chose, Testolin, didn't convince me that the music is interesting. But possibly Hanai would, as I say.

By the way, I'm generally very sceptical about the importance of making the text clear in religious ceremonies. The text is abundantly clear in chant, and they're the boring bits of the sung mass, the bits which no one listens to, they just go into a daydream at best. When good polyphony starts up - I mean Josquin but not later - the music is so beautiful that the experience for the audience is . . . numinous.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on May 02, 2023, 11:47:19 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 02, 2023, 08:36:55 AMThanks, and I can see how a modal Palestrina mass may be interesting - by modal I mean Hanai's highly introspective style. The article prompted me to listen to Palestrina's Salve Regina, which I couldn't remember. I'm afraid the performance I chose, Testolin, didn't convince me that the music is interesting. But possibly Hanai would, as I say.

By the way, I'm generally very sceptical about the importance of making the text clear in religious ceremonies. The text is abundantly clear in chant, and they're the boring bits of the sung mass, the bits which no one listens to, they just go into a daydream at best. When good polyphony starts up - I mean Josquin but not later - the music is so beautiful that the experience for the audience is . . . numinous.

I don't have a slightest knowledge in the genre. But I just found his comment, and I was hoping that you would enjoy reading it. Sounds like you liked it.

October, they will perform Jean de Ockeghem.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on May 02, 2023, 12:53:55 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on May 02, 2023, 08:36:55 AMI'm generally very sceptical about the importance of making the text clear in religious ceremonies.

That is your particular bias and is irrelevant considering the historical and religious priorities of Palestrina's time. I agree with the general consensus that Palestrina is the apogee of 16th century polyphony and I also enjoy his music very much.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on May 02, 2023, 06:58:07 PM
Unicum: New Songs from the Leuven chansonnier
Ensemble Leones | Marc Lewon (2023)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CLyqTYwq/Screen-Shot-2023-05-02-at-9-53-50-PM.png)
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on July 19, 2023, 05:16:41 AM
The Mysterious Motet Book of 1539
Siglo de Oro, directed by Patrick Allies

One of the most intriguingly named albums in recent memory, the "mysterious motet book" at the heart of the latest recording by acclaimed ensemble Siglo de Oro, is just that — a mystery. The excellent liner notes by scholar Daniel Trocmé-Latter tell the tale, or at least what we know thus far.


Why, in 1539, a full 15 years after the establishment of vernacular hymnody, would a Protestant publisher — Peter Schöffer the Younger — publish an entire book of Latin polyphony from Catholic Milan?

The music in that book, the Cantiones quinque vocum selectissimae, would not have been performable in Strasbourg as it was, but Trocmé-Latter wonders if it would have extended Schöffer's reach into other parts of Europe that were more open to such music. And why did the folks in Milan send these motets to Schöffer for publication, instead of printing them locally in an area where they were far more likely to be of interest? As yet, Trocmé-Latter has not speculated on an answer to that question. (read more (https://www.earlymusicamerica.org/web-articles/hidden-treasures-from-a-mysterious-motet-book/))
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 07, 2023, 04:51:37 AM
Essay on Abelard by Fr Chrysogonus Wadell and Mary Berry

PETER ABELARD, 1079-1142

 "Two special gifts you had," wrote Heloise to Abelard years after their tragic sep.11,1,11. two special gifts whereby to attract straightway the heart of any woman whomsoever: the beauty of  your songs and your singing ... Sung again and yet again for utter charm of word as well as tune,  they kept your name continually on the lips of everyone: the very sweetness of the melodies emitted that even the unlettered would not forget you."

Scholars have long suspected that at least a few of Master Peter Abelard's love-lyrics may have found their way anonymously into the songbooks of the later Middle Ages; but not a single melody attributable to Abelard has proved recoverable. Most medievalists tend to forget, however, that the tragic ending of the passionate love-affair between the celebrated school-man and the young Heloise marked the beginning of a new and even more profound relationship between the two. From his monastery in distant Brittany, Abelard, now Abbot of St Gildas, continued to write texts and melodies for Heloise, now Abbess of the Abbey of the Paraclete on the other side of France, near Troyes; and, in time, a sizeable body of Abelard's compositions helped to give the liturgy of the Paraclete its distinctive note.

These compositions included a complete Holy Week Office, collects, responsories. antiphons, sequences, sermons, even a biblical lectionary arranged by Abelard. But though the texts of these compositions were recoverable, the accompanying melodies were not, apart from a few tantalizing exceptions. A large collection of Abelard's hymns had survived in two manuscripts (a non-noted hymnary, Bruxelles, Bibliotheque Royale 10147-10158, late 12th century or early 13th; and a non-noted Paraclete breviary, Chaumont, Bibliotheque Municipale 31), and an occasional hymn had appeared in other manuscripts; but only in one instance, the Saturday Vespers hymn O quanta qualia, was the melody recoverable, thanks to a few Swiss manuscripts. Six non-liturgical but biblically-inspired planctus (laments) had similarly survived complete with staffiess neumes (Biblioteca Vaticana. Reg. lat.288); but the absence of a stave rendered the recovery of the melodies conjectural at best—apart from the single 'Planctus', David's lament for Saul and Jonathan, which is also known in a version with staff notation, but in a manuscript of dubious quality (Oxford, Bodley 70).

Fortunately, in 1957 the noted musicologist Michel Huglo, succeeded in identifying yet another version of David's lament in an earlier and much better manuscript (Paris, Bibliotheque Nationale, ma. lat.3126), a prosary from Nevers. In fine, the extent of Abelard's recoverable music was hunted 10 a single hymn-melody and a single planctus.

All this changed in the early 1980s when a monk of Gethsemani Abbey (Kentucky. s A ). Fr Chrysogonus Waddell. began working on an edition of the liturgical manuscripts of the Abbey of the Paraclete. These manuscripts included a late 13th-century Old French liturgical directory  (Paris. Bibliotheque Nationale franc.14410) containing numerous references to liturgical sequences. Since Abelard himself had once referred to a collection of his sequences sent to Heloise and he sisters along with a collection of hymns. was it possible that the sequence-references in this Old French manuscript might point to some of the lost sequences of Abelard? A careful study of this repertory of some 60 sequences (of which a half-dozen remain unidentifiable) brought to light a group of three. remarkable for their textual correspondences with Abelard's hymns, sermons and letters. The strophic forms and peculiar rhyme-schemes were those of Abelard's hymns. The techniques of composition, the similarity of many of the melodic incises. and the treatment of accents and word-endings in relationship with the melody, all pointed to a single composer. It could hardly have been coincidental too that these three sequences are found grouped together in the above-mentioned prosary from Nevers, and in immediate juxtaposition with Abelard's planctus for Saul and Jonathan. Further research resulted in the identification of numerous manuscripts and even printed sources for both texts and melodies—proof that at least a few of Abelard's sequences had found their way, albeit anonymously, into liturgical books of France. Switzerland. and even Germany.

Heloise's admiration for Abelard's musical and poetic talent is understandable. One only has to consider a single example: that Saturday Vespers hymn O quanta qualia. The vision of heaven is ecstatic and the tune so well constructed that phrase succeeds phrase organically and seemingly inevitably. Abelard's little Marian hymn Mater Ramrods addresses the Mother of the Saviour in familiar, almost naive terms. As it appears to lack an original Abelardian tune it is sung here to the Cistercian form of the 'Ave marls stella' with which, like most of Abelard's Marian hymns,  it shares the same 6666 trochaic metre.

Abelard's planctus for Saul and Jonathan Dolorunt solarium reveals a depth of feeling that must surely be related to the state of utter despair in which he found himself after his parting from Heloise. Reading between the lines one may, perhaps, perceive Heloise behind the figure of Jonathan. Each of the lovers went their respective ways towards the cloister and would have shared, at a distance, the singing of the Suscipe, a chant that a monk or a nun sings at the moment of solemn profession. When later, by a curious quirk of circumstances. Heloise became Abbess of the Paraclete and Abelard the spiritual director of the nuns, he asked them to pray for him at each Hour of the Divine Office, composing for this purpose the moving responsory Ne derelinquas me. The liturgy at the Paraclete. basically Cistercian, was greatly enriched by Abelard,  who introduced a wider use of biblical texts. Two of his newly-identified sequences,  written for the Paraclete, are his Easter sequence Epithalanzica, and his sequence for the dead De profundis. Epithalamica. strongly inspired by the Song of Songs,  sees the drama of the Resurrection as re-enacted in the life of a Paraclete nun, herself a Bride of Christ, awaiting the Bridegroom's return from the tomb. De profundis  is of particular interest musically, in the way it uses different areas of the diatonic scale. It moves gradually across from the descending phrases of lamentation in Mode 2 to the hope and serenity suggested by the rising phrases the composer chooses for the ending in Mode 8.

Abelard's musical output may he usefully assessed when seen against the background of other contemporary sources. One of the best-known to him must surely have been the repertoire produced by the reforming Cistercians under the guidance of his adversary St Bernard. The Bernadine reform extended the original very restricted repertoire of office hymns to include others of such delightful freshness as the one in honour of St Mary Magdalene - Magnum salutis gaudium. Bernard himself composed a proper Office for the Canons regular in honour of St Victor, from which has been taken as an example the short antiphon Quam pium,  with its spontaneous leaps. use of melisma and sense of overall form. Bernard, like Abelard. makes constant liturgical use of the Song of Songs. a book traditionally used by Christian spirituality to represent the love of Christ for the Church and for the individual Christian soul. Fulcite me floribus, the fourth Matins responsory for Feasts of Virgins, and Dum esset rex, tenth responsory for the Feast of the Assumption. show the musical development of this idea in the liturgy of the early Cistercians.

Another fascinating contemporary or near contemporary composition for comparison is the Aquitanian liturgical drama Sponsus (Paris, Bibliotheque Nationale MS lat.l 139), which tells the story of the Wise and Foolish Virgins, half in Latin and half in the Occitan vernacular. It contains four melodies, characterizing the various dramatis personae. Ecclesia has a straightforward Mode 8 melody, falling into clear-cut metrical patterns. When at the end of the drama the Bridegroom, Christ, finally arrives, he shares the same tune. The Archangel Gabriel sings a more elaborate tune, each strophe of which ends with a word of warning that the Virgins must be vigilant: "Don't fall asleep!" The melody of the Foolish Virgins, shared by the worldly merchants, exploits the eschewed tritone and ends indecisively. The fourth melody, that of the Wise Virgins, is the most highly-developed. Each strophe is followed by a refrain of complaining by the Foolish. The message of condemnation at the end of the drama has been ascribed here to Gabriel, since it is sung to his melody, though no rubric to this effect actually exists in the manuscript. Indeed, missing rubrics are not infrequent in other places as well.

More dramatic, perhaps, than Sponsus, with its stylized characterization, is the medieval lai Samson dux fortissime (London, British Library, MS Harley 978). Samson. a figure of Christ. who triumphed at the moment of his Passion, was a favourite hero of the medieval Church (Judges 14, 15, 16). We are well prepared for the unfolding of the drama by its powerful opening. achieved by the simplest of means: the Chorus prepares Samson's dramatic entry—on the highest pitch or the chosen range—by the simple addition of a repeated phrase, heard four times over instead of three. 'Ibis splendid piece has much affinity and indeed certain precise features in common with the Abelardian sequences, not least the use of such passages as those involving textural crossing, over at the climax: "Ludens lugebarn, plaudens plangebam, risi plangendo, lusi plorendo censor. crucianter glorior" with its direct reference to Christ's Passion, and which may he compared with "Risi mane, flevi nocte; mane risi. nocte flevi  . . . Plausus dei, plausus nocte; dei plausus, nocte planctus" at the moment of Christ's Resurrection

1994 Fr Chrysogonus Wadell and Mary Berry

Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 16, 2023, 02:44:17 AM
Mary Berry's essay on the Winchester Toper -- her recording of music from it  is, I think, rather impressive.

CHRISTMAS IN ROYAL ANGLO-SAXON WINCHESTER


10th-century Chant from the Winchester Troper In 10th-century England, especially in a great royal and monastic centre such as Winchester, Christmas, like Easter, was an occasion for liturgical celebrations of exceptional splendour and magnificence. Apart from the Gradual, every item of the Proper and the Ordinary of the Mass was expanded and embellished by the addition of tropes (added verses), which filled out and commented upon the standard texts, elaborating joyfully upon their doctrinal content. Some of these tropes, such as the Communion trope Desinat esse dolor', were known all over Europe; others were local and may well have been the work of Winchester's own Cantor, Wulfstan.

This selection represents what might have been heard in the Old Minster during the Third Mass, or Mass of the Day, on Christmas Day. The introductory Venus ante Officium, sung before the Introit that accompanied the solemn entry of the clergy, stem from an old east Frankish tradition and are attributed to Tuotilo, a gifted musician from Sr Gall in Switzerland. They appear in the form of a dialogue between two groups of singers and might almost be described as a liturgical drama in embryo. They end abruptly with an unexpected change of mode, leading directly into the Gregorian Introit Puer natus est nobis', a sumptuous processional chant, each phrase of which is introduced by a trope. One of the troped verses of the Introit, 'Rex lumen', appears to be practically unique to Winchester. In the following texts and translations the words of the traditional standard chants are printed in roman type and the tropes in italics, in order to make the distinction.

The Kyrie offers an early example of thenewly-discovered technique of organum. These first attempts at two-part polyphony were much relished by the Winchester cantors, and this particular setting bears the caption Taus iocunda Christi glorie digna' - 'Joyful praise, worthy of the glory of Christ'. Indeed, the Winchester cantors took an obvious pride and delight in their polyphonic experimentation that they could never be accused of false modesty! Their enthusiasm may be gauged by their choice of epithets to describe it: `rn.elliflua organorum modulamina', `organa dulcisona': mellifluous and sweet-sounding indeed to their ears, even if to modem ears these attempts might sound a trifle crude with their succession of seconds and fourths. There is, however, a fascinating richness and beauty of sound in the twinned, low voices, especially when heard in alternation with the unison chant. The resulting harmony is surprisingly attractive and satisfying.

 The Alleluia - also with organum - reveals its ancient history in its bi-lingual text of Greek and Latin. This use of two languages with an identical interpretation, one after another, can be traced back at least as far as 4th-century Jerusalem and the globe-trotting Spanish female pilgrim, Egeria. 'Until relatively recently it was a tradition still to be heard during Papal ceremonies in Rome. It is perhaps not insignificant to note that England, in Anglo-Saxon times, could actually boast a Greek Archbishop of Canterbury: Archbishop Theodore, the contemporary of Benedict Biscop.

The Sequence `Celica resonant', for high voices, contrasts the blissful song of the Angels at the birth of Christ with the humbler song of the monastic choir. Each phrase of the sequence, with its syllabic text, echoes a section of the Alleluia jubilus, sung on the vowel 'a'. The Offertory, Sanctus, Agnus Dei and Communion chants are all interwoven with tropes that provide a melodius commentary on their standard texts. Finally, the un-troped Invitatory, or call to prayer, `Christus natus est nobis: venite adoremus', from the Night Office of Matins, is a short refrain repeated between the verses of Psalm 94 (95), and which sums up, in six words, the essential theme of Christmas.
0 Mary Berry 1992
THE TRANSCRIPTIONS
The Schola Gregoriana of Cambridge wishes to thank Professor David Hiley4 Regensburg University for his work in providing the performing editions of the music. The two principal sources are Cambridge, Corpus Christi 473 and Oxford, Bodley 775, with the following supporting sources: Proper of mass chants: Worcester E160 (Worcester) and Oxford Rawl.C.892 (Downpatrick);
. • , • .
Proper tropes: Paris BN_nouv,accidat.4235 (from Nevers), Provins BM 12 (from Chartres), Utrecht RijksuriiVersiteif 417 (froth Utrecht) also for some isolated verses, Paris BN lat.887 (from Aquitaine) and Madrid BN: 19421- (frOni Catania); Kyrie: Paris 1235 , Gloria: Laon BM 263 (from Laon) for the base melody, Paris 1235 and Paris 10508 (from Sc Evroult) for the trope verses; Sequence: Corpus 473 has alphabetic notation; Sanctus': Paris 11:34 and 1131- (from Limoges), Madrid 289 (from Palermo) and Madrid 19421 (Catania) AgnUs Dei: London Royal 213.1v (from St Albans) and Paris 10508; Invitatory: Worcester E160
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on October 25, 2023, 11:52:48 AM
Mary Berry on Pontigny


PENTECOST AT PONTIGNY
The Abbey of Pontigny, second daughter-house of ateaux, was 'founded in 1114 in the valley of the River Serein, a typical rural Cistercian site. The Abbey church is the largest Cistercian church surviving in France today. The imposing height and length of the building give it a remarkably warm and resonant acoustic, well-suited to chant. The brilliance of the white stone enables the purity and simplicity of the early Cistercian architecture to be revealed in all its beauty.

The Abbey is rich in history. In particular, during the 12th and 13th centuries three English Archbishops of Canterbury sought refuge there: Thomas Becket (1118-1170), Stephen Langton (d.1228), and Edmund of Abingdon (6..1175-1240), who became the patron saint of Pontigny. The monks left the Abbey at the time of the French Revolution and since then the Abbey church has served as a parish church for the local community.

 The Schola Gregoriana of Cambridge has had links with the Abbey of Pontigny since 1988. Over the Whitsun weekend of that year, the Schola was invited to sing the Monastic Hours according to the Cistercian rite and to give a recital in honour of the three English Archbishops.

Pentecost has a special meaning for the people of Pontigny because it was on a Whit Monday that Edmund of Abingdon — St-Edme in French — was transported from Soissy, where he died, to his final resting-place above the high altar in the Abbey church. Over the centuries Whit Monday has come to be a day of pilgrimage and special festivities at Pontigny. This recording enters into the spirit of PentecOte a Pontigny': ritual music for the feast of Pentecost, chants gleaned from Cistercian service-books, and a selection of pieces that honour the three Archbishops. The sacrilegious murder of Thomas Becket shocked the whole of Christendom. There is a considerable amount of music written to honour the 'holy blissful martyr', slain by the sword in his own cathedral on 29 December, 1170. In Rama sonat gemitus is a lament for Becket composed during his exile in Pontigny. Clangat tuba, martyr Thoma is a fifteenth-century carol, partly in Latin, partly in the vernacular. The theme of the grain of corn released from the chaff is borrowed from the processional responsory Jacet granum, sung here according to the rite of Salisbury and followed by its rousing prose, Clangat Pastor in tuba cornea, the choir jubilantly echoing each phrase on the vowel 'a'.

Thomas gemma/Thomas ccesus is a thirteenth-century motet in honour of Thomas Becket and a second Thomas, Thomas de Halys, a Benedictine monk of Dover Priory who met a violent death on 2 August, 1295. It has a strange text, witty, inventive, intended both to edify and to entertain. Of the four voices, the two basses are used throughout as though they were instru-ments, hoqueting at speed on vowel sounds. The two tenors divide the text between them, one singing about Thomas of Canterbury, the other about Thomas of Dover. The words are made to follow each other, copy each other, sound alike and rhyme, both phonetically and rhythmically.

The chants that commemorate Stephen Langton are the eighth-century hymn Iste confessor, which he would quote to exhort the clergy of Canterbury, and the prose Veni, sancte Spiritus, often attributed to him. Both these pieces are performed metrically on the evidence of numer-ous sources, manuscript and printed. Dunstable's motet is based on the text of this prose, divided between the tenor and the first bass, with the second bass supporting them underneath with a snatch of the Whitsun sequence Sancti Spiritus assit nobis gratia.

 The Alleluia: hic Edmundus, from the Salisbury Gradual, recalls Edmund's family name `Rich' as well as the eleven years during which he was treasurer of Salisbury Cathedral before his elevation to the See of Canterbury. The responsory Exivit ab Anglia sings of his exile and death. The Magnificat antiphon Ave, gernma confessorum, from the same manuscript, closely imitates the Marian antiphon Ave, regina cxlorum. The hymn. Jam Christus dator munerurn is taken from a life of St Edmund by an eighteenth-century monk of Pontigny, F-M. Charlet (1775). It is based on the Pentecost hymn Jam Christus astra ascenderat. Edmund's favourite prayer, according to Matthew Paris (13th century), was the Adoramus te, Christe, which he would recite to honour, each in turn, the suffering limbs of the crucified Christ.

The music for Pentecost includes the well-known hymn Veni, creator Spiritus, attributed to the Benedictine Abbot Rabanus Maurus of Fulda (784-856), the eighth-mode introit Spiritus Domini, and the prose Veni, sancte Spiritus, all three from Cistercian service-books, and the 5-part motet Dum complerentur dies pentecostes, composed by the Cistercian Abbot of Himmelwitz, Johannes Nucius (c.1560-1620). Other specifically Cistercian music includes two chants dating from St Bernard's revision of the Cistercian Antiphonal (c.1140), the antiphon Anima mea liquefacta est, and the moving responsory Filice Jerusalem, from Matins for the Feast of the Assumption, both based on texts from the Song of Songs and both reflecting the intensity of Bernard's love of God. The Cistercian Salve regina follows strictly the guide-lines laid down by Bernard and his fellow liturgists, as does the fourth-century Te Deum laudamus — one of the earliest Christian hymns, but here as sung by the Cistercians and accompanied, as was the custom, by the Abbey bells. Finally, the little fourteenth-century sequence for three voices, Ave, mundi Rosa, was discovered in 1958 on the fly-leaves of a manuscript from Fountains Abbey. © Mary Berry 1993
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 01, 2023, 04:57:54 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 25, 2023, 11:52:48 AMMary Berry on Pontigny

Interesting reading!

Is this the same Mary Berry who co-hosted the show "The Great British Bakeoff"?

PD
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on November 01, 2023, 05:26:19 AM
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 01, 2023, 04:57:54 AMInteresting reading!

Is this the same Mary Berry who co-hosted the show "The Great British Bakeoff"?

PD

No! No no no NOOO!


Mary Berry instituted a sort of quiet revolution in the world of chant -- she argued that the best way to sing it was to give it a bit of rubato, a bit of subtle expressive embellishment, make it poetic.

The reason I've been posting these  booklet essays here is that I found a few weeks ago that her recordings are no longer streaming, so I decided to buy them. I must say, revisiting them has been an enormous pleasure. Quiet, sane, intense music, I love it.

The Pontigny CD, by the way, is a slight disappointment. Not because of the music or the music making, but because of the recording quality -- too much hall ambience for me I'm afraid. Still, I'm glad I have it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 01, 2023, 05:50:45 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 01, 2023, 05:26:19 AMNo! No no no NOOO!


Mary Berry instituted a sort of quiet revolution in the world of chant -- she argued that the best way to sing it was to give it a bit of rubato, a bit of subtle expressive embellishment, make it poetic.

The reason I've been posting these  booklet essays here is that I found a few weeks ago that her recordings are no longer streaming, so I decided to buy them. I must say, revisiting them has been an enormous pleasure. Quiet, sane, intense music, I love it.

The Pontigny CD, by the way, is a slight disappointment. Not because of the music or the music making, but because of the recording quality -- too much hall ambience for me I'm afraid. Still, I'm glad I have it.
I suspected not, but you never know what hidden talents and interests someone has.  ;)

In any event, thank you for telling me more about her.  :)

PD
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on November 01, 2023, 06:25:27 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on November 01, 2023, 05:26:19 AMThe reason I've been posting these  booklet essays here is that I found a few weeks ago that her recordings are no longer streaming, so I decided to buy them.
This is the capital argument against streaming, namely when the music is no longer streaming you have to purchase it. But what if it is OOP by then?
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: San Antone on November 01, 2023, 07:22:24 AM
Quote from: premont on November 01, 2023, 06:25:27 AMThis is the capital argument against streaming, namely when the music is no longer streaming you have to purchase it. But what if it is OOP by then?

You can often find it on eBay, or even an Amazon third party seller.  So far, I have never failed to find an OOP recording that I wanted to buy. But you're right, streaming will probably make finding OOP recordings harder to find until eventually they disappear.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on November 01, 2023, 07:48:44 AM
Quote from: San Antone on November 01, 2023, 07:22:24 AMYou can often find it on eBay, or even an Amazon third party seller.  So far, I have never failed to find an OOP recording that I wanted to buy. But you're right, streaming will probably make finding OOP recordings harder to find until eventually they disappear.

Yes, it's true that OOP recordings often can be found at an AMP vendor, but the cost may be prohibitive for the purchase
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: DavidW on November 01, 2023, 08:37:26 AM
Quote from: premont on November 01, 2023, 07:48:44 AMYes, it's true that OOP recordings often can be found at an AMP vendor, but the cost may be prohibitive for the purchase

That is what I encountered with the Kondrashin Shostakovich symphonies.  I no longer owned them on cd, and then one day they vanished from streaming (they are back now after being absent for a few years but you never know).  They are available for an arm and a leg on cd, but that was it.

If you cherish something buy it.  Whether it be vinyl, cassette, cd, sacd, digital download... buy it.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: AnotherSpin on November 01, 2023, 09:00:41 AM
Quote from: DavidW on November 01, 2023, 08:37:26 AMIf you cherish something buy it.  Whether it be vinyl, cassette, cd, sacd, digital download... buy it.

I lost a lot of things I cherished. And I'm bound to lose the ones I still have.
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: premont on November 01, 2023, 09:03:46 AM
Quote from: DavidW on November 01, 2023, 08:37:26 AMIf you cherish something buy it.  Whether it be vinyl, cassette, cd, sacd, digital download... buy it.

Couldn't agree more.
I would say:
"Buy when you can,
and listen when you get the time."
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on November 02, 2023, 02:46:43 AM
Quote from: Mandryka on June 01, 2019, 08:40:12 AMAndrew Kirkman's inaugural at Birmingham University here

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/documents/college-artslaw/music/andrew-kirkman-inaugural-lecture.pdf

Well worth reading. It inspired me to look up his recording of the motet Incomprehensibilia firme, and it's every bit an amazing piece of music he says it is. Kirkman recorded it on A Marriage of England of Burgundy, and Orlando recorded it on their Busnois cd, which has Robert Harre Jones and Mark Dobell, as you'd expect the two interpretations are very different from each other.  I don't think anyone else tackled it.

Back to Kirkman's performance of Incomprehensibilia firme this morning. An extraordinary motet,
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Pohjolas Daughter on November 02, 2023, 10:15:53 AM
Quote from: premont on November 01, 2023, 07:48:44 AMYes, it's true that OOP recordings often can be found at an AMP vendor, but the cost may be prohibitive for the purchase
I found out a number of years ago that (at least for one big label) that "limited edition" doesn't quite mean that.  There was a boxed CD set of Wagner's Ring.  It went OOP, but a year or so later, I purchased it from someone on eBay (for not much more).  Well, go forward in time a bit, guess what?  It was back in print and readily available!   ::)

PD
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 05, 2023, 03:12:24 AM
Worth catching this BBC series if you can, on medieval Xmas music..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001svql
Title: Re: The Early Music Club (EMC)
Post by: Mandryka on December 05, 2023, 03:27:01 AM
I expect all the Brits here are familir with the reference to Alan Prtridge in the above -- but @Que and @premont mybe not. Here.