GMG Classical Music Forum

The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: Holden on September 26, 2007, 04:05:32 PM

Title: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Holden on September 26, 2007, 04:05:32 PM
An earlier thread on pianists has prompted this one. I have a number of recordings by this pianist and all range from very good to exemplary. Fiorentino had a wide repertoire ranging from Bach upwards. He was especially good with the Romantic composers but whoever he played he always had something interesting to say. Top recordings from him IMO include:

Schumann Fantasy in C Op 17 (both of them)
Chopin sonata in B flat minor
Schubert sonatas and Impromptus
Rachmaninov - complete Preludes
All of his Liszt

Now all the recordings I have are on the APR label and they keep finding more stuff that he's done. Now here's the caveat. Concert Artists/Fidelio also has a considerable respository of SF recordings but as this is the same label that promoted Joyce Hatto, how can I be sure that these really are Fiorentino recordings?

This site gives an indication of the recordings that Fiorentino made during his life. How many are still available is anybody's guess.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Don on September 26, 2007, 04:15:05 PM
Quote from: Holden on September 26, 2007, 04:05:32 PM
Now all the recordings I have are on the APR label and they keep finding more stuff that he's done. Now here's the caveat. Concert Artists/Fidelio also has a considerable respository of SF recordings but as this is the same label that promoted Joyce Hatto, how can I be sure that these really are Fiorentino recordings?


I wouldn't acquire a thing from Concert Artists.  Their website still has the Hatto discs on full display - screw 'em.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: m_gigena on September 26, 2007, 06:30:34 PM
Quote from: Don on September 26, 2007, 04:15:05 PM
I wouldn't acquire a thing from Concert Artists.  Their website still has the Hatto discs on full display - screw 'em.

And as I posted in the Con(cert) Artist thread. The Chopin Mazurcas they released as Fiorentino have already been identified as coming from other pianist.

After Fiorentino's death, Concert Artist released many "Fiorentino" treasures, apparently from sources that had been completely ignored during the pianist's lifetime. It seems WBC was fortunate enough to find master tapes and recordings that not even the old Sergio knew he had played.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: George on August 15, 2010, 12:49:41 PM
I was just made aware of this Fiorentino website. Well worth checking out:

http://www.fortepianos.org/elumpe/mpegfiles.htm
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Mandryka on August 15, 2010, 11:46:36 PM
There are some works which he plays very distinctively: eccentric interpretations no doubt but very committed. His Bach 4th Partita is like that. Also maybe Kreisleriana. And I think Chopin Op 28/2.

Some of the early Fiorentino has failed to make much of an impact on me. So maybe I should listen again to his Symphonic Etudes, for example.

Apart from his Bach , the other album which made a very strong long term impact on me was the one called Contemplative Liszt. Partly this is becaue it's so unusual to have that type of music all together on a single CD like that. It's a very nice CD when you're in the mood -- but I wouldn't like to say how well the performances would bear comaprison with Richter, for example.

Then there is the German concert. 

I just set up a little playlist with the fugue from Op 110 -- Fiorentino's from Germany, Arrau's (EMI) and Edwin Fsicher's. Fiorentino didn't come off well in the comparison I'm afraid, even though it is clearly nicely played. It was flatter than either of Arrau or Fischer -- less dramatic, less interesting in fact.


(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21KK2WCYY1L._SL500_SL160_.jpg)
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: springrite on August 15, 2010, 11:55:37 PM
Certainly the Bach, Schumann Fantasie and the Franck. I don't like his Chopin as much, and his later recordings are far more to my taste than the "early years" ones.

Much of his recordings released by APR are available at BRO.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: mc ukrneal on August 16, 2010, 12:38:06 AM
Quote from: springrite on August 15, 2010, 11:55:37 PM
Certainly the Bach, Schumann Fantasie and the Franck. I don't like his Chopin as much, and his later recordings are far more to my taste than the "early years" ones.

Much of his recordings released by APR are available at BRO.
I've picked up a couple of these to much success - a disc of Shcumann and Liszt. Both are excellent.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Herman on August 16, 2010, 03:28:58 AM
Quote from: Don on September 26, 2007, 04:15:05 PM
I wouldn't acquire a thing from Concert Artists.  Their website still has the Hatto discs on full display - screw 'em.

I never fell for the Hatto hoax; a sick old lady recording every single paino composer that ever lived? Ya right.

However WBC should be thrown in jail for what he did to Fiorentino's legacy. It was totally unnecessary to release fake recordings of this prolific pianist.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: George on August 17, 2010, 07:07:11 PM
Quote from: springrite on August 15, 2010, 11:55:37 PM
Much of his recordings released by APR are available at BRO.

Indeed. And they are well worth grabbing while we can. I got all the ones they had.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Mandryka on September 30, 2010, 09:43:04 PM
I collected together a handful of recordings of Hommages à Rameau recently.

I like this music, so I was curious about how my favourite pianists played it. Who played with  seductive sonorities? Who told a  convincing and logical story? Who was personal?

The playlist was big, including  Moravec, ABM, Richter, Paul Jacobs, Arrau, Rev , Gilels, Fiorentino

I'm still listening really – so far Arrau, Rev and ABM have made the strongest impression – especially Arrau.

And one other – a surprise. That's Sergio Fiorentino. Stunning Debussy playing I think –logical storytelling,  beautiful sounding.

It made me wonder, do any of you know any other Debussy by Fiorentino?  The Hommage I was listening to is from a CD of radio performances mostly – the CD with Kreisleriana and Ravel's Valses. I think the Fiorentino yahoo group once published some of his Debussy – did anyone download it?
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: George on August 02, 2011, 07:45:31 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on August 15, 2010, 11:46:36 PM
Some of the early Fiorentino has failed to make much of an impact on me.

Have you heard this one? Some lovely playing here:

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/37/d2/115ae03ae7a07b63df80d110.L.jpg)
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Mandryka on August 02, 2011, 10:26:43 PM
Quote from: George on August 02, 2011, 07:45:31 PM
Have you heard this one? Some lovely playing here:

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/37/d2/115ae03ae7a07b63df80d110.L.jpg)

Yes and in the past I've enjoyed it. It is relentlessly contemplative. I made that comment about not liking early SF much before I had heard his Chopin etudes and Walzes. I 'm still keen to hear the nocturnes and any Debussy there may be around. I still like his Ravel and Kreisleriana -- though I suspect I am the only one.

It's interesting the way he plays these two nocturnes so differently -- he's clearly really thought about this music. I'm not sure that I like the slow start of Op 48/1 but it takes off in the end.

http://www.youtube.com/v/NSc0Erju62o

I wonder what the people who like Bach here think about his Partita 4. >:D
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Moonfish on October 26, 2014, 09:54:32 AM
What are your thoughts on Fiorentino's later recordings?

[asin] B005WIKRTO[/asin]
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Cosi bel do on October 26, 2014, 11:42:10 AM
Well, I love Fiorentino's recordings no matter how old they are (or he was). It's quite sad really that he kind of only recorded in his youth, during the 60s, and in his old days, at the end of the 90s. But it is a joy in both cases.

These Berlin sessions have two qualities you don't find in the earlier recordings. Fiorentino never played in a virtuosity-only, showy way, but in these later recordings he show a stronger care for very precise and subtle sound control, which recalls at times Michelangeli's work (in Brahms Ballades for instance, a score in which I would have liked to hear the late Fiorentino). The other good point is that the quality of the sound is really great, which is not always the case in most of his first recordings.

In my opinion, even if everything is good in this set, the strongest parts are the Schumann (the Fantasie is among the very best performances, with Richter's in Prague, and Annie Fischer's in London), Liszt's sonata, and also the César Franck. The rest is excellent too (except maybe the two Schubert sonatas but they are still good performances). So, as I saw you just bought it, an excellent purchase, really ;)

Volume 2 of the Piano Classics edition is great too, but be careful, CD 6 is actually the same than the Liszt CD in volume 1, which is not really pleasing.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Holden on October 26, 2014, 12:00:32 PM
Many of these recordings have been previously released by APR. They are uniformly excellent and as Cosi said, this is among the very best performances of the Op 17 Fantasie.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Moonfish on October 26, 2014, 12:13:57 PM
Quote from: Cosi bel do on October 26, 2014, 11:42:10 AM
Well, I love Fiorentino's recordings no matter how old they are (or he was). It's quite sad really that he kind of only recorded in his youth, during the 60s, and in his old days, at the end of the 90s. But it is a joy in both cases.

These Berlin sessions have two qualities you don't find in the earlier recordings. Fiorentino never played in a virtuosity-only, showy way, but in these later recordings he show a stronger care for very precise and subtle sound control, which recalls at times Michelangeli's work (in Brahms Ballades for instance, a score in which I would have liked to hear the late Fiorentino). The other good point is that the quality of the sound is really great, which is not always the case in most of his first recordings.

In my opinion, even if everything is good in this set, the strongest parts are the Schumann (the Fantasie is among the very best performances, with Richter's in Prague, and Annie Fischer's in London), Liszt's sonata, and also the César Franck. The rest is excellent too (except maybe the two Schubert sonatas but they are still good performances). So, as I saw you just bought it, an excellent purchase, really ;)

Volume 2 of the Piano Classics edition is great too, but be careful, CD 6 is actually the same than the Liszt CD in volume 1, which is not really pleasing.

Thanks Cosi! It sounds as if you have been listening to Fiorentino's performances for a while. I figured that the price was right for exploring a pianist unknown to me (especially with the praise on this thread). I am also interested in his early Liszt recordings. Some reviews on Amazon pointed out that they were more slow and contemplative than the usual approach. Do you enjoy his Liszt?
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Moonfish on October 26, 2014, 12:15:16 PM
Quote from: Holden on October 26, 2014, 12:00:32 PM
Many of these recordings have been previously released by APR. They are uniformly excellent and as Cosi said, this is among the very best performances of the Op 17 Fantasie.

I noticed that the APRs are still available at BRO! Looking forward to listening to his Schumann.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Cosi bel do on October 26, 2014, 12:40:49 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on October 26, 2014, 12:13:57 PM
Thanks Cosi! It sounds as if you have been listening to Fiorentino's performances for a while. I figured that the price was right for exploring a pianist unknown to me (especially with the praise on this thread). I am also interested in his early Liszt recordings. Some reviews on Amazon pointed out that they were more slow and contemplative than the usual approach. Do you enjoy his Liszt?

Yes, since I got this set when it came out I came back to it quite a few times. Before that, I only knew a small part of Fiorentino's recordings.

The late Liszt recordings might be slower than the norm, maybe (as several pieces in this set, but that doesn't make them less impressive). I wouldn't say that about his earlier recordings though, but this might need a precise comparison though (it happens I recently listened to the whole vol. 2). What struck me, above all, ils how this music is really incredibly easily rendered, with a perfect technique and sensitive playing that is never artifical or heavy (not at all like Berman's for instance, even if I personally like Berman's Liszt). Again, the comparison with Michelangeli's best recordings comes to mind, even if Liszt wasn't a favourite composer of ABM.

Anyway, good Liszt solo piano recordings are not very many (except in the sonata), so in any case one should not deprive himself of these...
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Mandryka on October 26, 2014, 12:48:12 PM
Quote from: Moonfish on October 26, 2014, 09:54:32 AM
What are your thoughts on Fiorentino's later recordings?

[asin] B005WIKRTO[/asin]

The Fantasy is very good. I'm also very fond of the  Chopin sonata 2. The Bach Partita 4 is sui generis - you'll either love it or loathe it. I remember the Schubert was excellent but it's never won a place in my heart - perhaps I'm not doing it justice. I have a better Chopin sonata 3 by him.

The thing that interests me most is the Debussy on CD 10. I haven't heard the Debussy in that box, but I have heard him play Images and I loved it. Unfortunately there's no way to get the Debussy without buying the box, which I'm not going to do.

About the Prokofiev,  Rachmaninov, Scriabin, Franck and Liszt, I know nothing.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Cosi bel do on October 26, 2014, 12:57:44 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 26, 2014, 12:48:12 PM
The Fantasy is very good. I'm also very fond of the  Chopin sonata 2. The Bach Partita 4 is sui generis - you'll either love it or loathe it. I remember the Schubert was excellent but it's never won a place in my heart - perhaps I'm not doing it justice. I have a better Chopin sonata 3 by him.
The Chopin sonata in this set is no. 3. I don't think I've heard about a sonata no. 2 by him ? Do you have any more information ?
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Mandryka on October 26, 2014, 01:07:52 PM
Quote from: Cosi bel do on October 26, 2014, 12:57:44 PM
The Chopin sonata in this set is no. 3. I don't think I've heard about a sonata no. 2 by him ? Do you have any more information ?

Oh that's a shame - I misread the tracklist. The sonata two I like is here:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51LBI0suT3L.jpg)

(This is worth having - I was assuming that the Fanatsy which I like was taken from this, but now I see that the one I like is 1993 and the one in the box is 1996. So ignore what I said - if you get it I'd be keen to know how the two compare.)

And the Sonata 3 I don't much like is here

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IOpGbfyGL.jpg)

Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Cosi bel do on October 26, 2014, 01:15:35 PM
Yes ok so we're talking about the same sonata no. 3 (I'm gonna listen to it again because I don't really remember it).

The 1992 live recording has been forever in my list, I'll have to consider it more seriously, I didn't rememeber (or hadn't noticed) there was Chopins 2nd sonata in this recital.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Mandryka on October 26, 2014, 01:17:48 PM
Anyone heard this? I just noticed it

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71nnab0ryQL._SX522_.jpg)
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Mandryka on October 26, 2014, 01:18:47 PM
Quote from: Cosi bel do on October 26, 2014, 01:15:35 PM
Yes ok so we're talking about the same sonata no. 3 (I'm gonna listen to it again because I don't really remember it).

The 1992 live recording has been forever in my list, I'll have to consider it more seriously, I didn't rememeber (or hadn't noticed) there was Chopins 2nd sonata in this recital.

PM me if you want me to send you the sonata 3 I prefer - I don't know the provenance.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Holden on October 27, 2014, 12:23:04 PM
Quote from: Mandryka on October 26, 2014, 01:07:52 PM


(This is worth having - I was assuming that the Fanatsy which I like was taken from this, but now I see that the one I like is 1993 and the one in the box is 1996. So ignore what I said - if you get it I'd be keen to know how the two compare.)

And the Sonata 3 I don't much like is here

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IOpGbfyGL.jpg)

Both performances of the Fantasie are excellent and very similar. One of them is top of my list for this work and the other is #2.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on October 27, 2014, 12:39:58 PM
Quote from: Holden on October 27, 2014, 12:23:04 PM
Both performances of the Fantasie are excellent and very similar. One of them is top of my list for this work and the other is #2.

Yes, one is live and the other studio. They're among my favorites for the Fantasy as well.

For me I love Fiorentino's Liszt. I have that "Contemplative Liszt" disc mentioned earlier in the thread as well as two other Liszt discs and they are definite gems.
 
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: George on October 27, 2014, 12:59:08 PM
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 27, 2014, 12:39:58 PM
Yes, one is live and the other studio. They're among my favorites for the Fantasy as well.

For me I love Fiorentino's Liszt. I have that "Contemplative Liszt" disc mentioned earlier in the thread as well as two other Liszt discs and they are definite gems.


His Liszt is on my list too.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on October 27, 2014, 01:10:22 PM
Quote from: George on October 27, 2014, 12:59:08 PM
His Liszt is on my list too.

;)

Why am I thinking of a certain Hall & Oates song...


Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: George on October 27, 2014, 01:18:23 PM
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 27, 2014, 01:10:22 PM
;)

Why am I thinking of a certain Hall & Oates song...

:D
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Mandryka on October 28, 2014, 10:09:20 AM
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on October 27, 2014, 12:39:58 PM
Yes, one is live and the other studio. They're among my favorites for the Fantasy as well.

For me I love Fiorentino's Liszt. I have that "Contemplative Liszt" disc mentioned earlier in the thread as well as two other Liszt discs and they are definite gems.


Some of the things in that Contemplative Liszt show Fiorentino's penchant for extended tempos, and for stillness, calm. Weinen, Klagen . . . by Fiorentino couldn't be more different from Horowitz - I prefer Fiorentino to Horowitz's nervousness, but that view may not be very widely shared. The Partita 4 is a real clear example of this aspect of his art.

The Contemplative Liszt CD is one of the very few early recordings by him I like. Most of the stuff I've enjoyed has been from the 1980s and 1990s.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Brian on November 17, 2014, 07:29:19 PM
Quote from: Discobolus on October 26, 2014, 11:42:10 AMwhich recalls at times Michelangeli's work (in Brahms Ballades for instance, a score in which I would have liked to hear the late Fiorentino).
Quote from: Mandryka on September 30, 2010, 09:43:04 PM
It made me wonder, do any of you know any other Debussy by Fiorentino?
I just got my 10CD Berlin box, but the notes state that before his death Fiorentino had scheduled another long recording session in Berlin with the same engineers. The program: Brahms Ballades and pieces Opp. 117-119, and Debussy's Images with some favorite Preludes. This made my heart ache that he did not live one more year...

Quote from: Mandryka on October 26, 2014, 01:17:48 PM
Anyone heard this? I just noticed it

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71nnab0ryQL._SX522_.jpg)
I heard some excerpts on Naxos Music Library last week. Historical piano - probably an 1840s-1850s Erard. Sound quality is not great. Brisk, straightforward Schubert is what I mainly remember, and two very lively, jubilant Chopin waltzes.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Mandryka on November 17, 2014, 09:05:09 PM
Quote from: Brian on November 17, 2014, 07:29:19 PM
I just got my 10CD Berlin box, but the notes state that before his death Fiorentino had scheduled another long recording session in Berlin with the same engineers. The program: Brahms Ballades and pieces Opp. 117-119, and Debussy's Images with some favorite Preludes. This made my heart ache that he did not live one more year...
I heard some excerpts on Naxos Music Library last week. Historical piano - probably an 1840s-1850s Erard. Sound quality is not great. Brisk, straightforward Schubert is what I mainly remember, and two very lively, jubilant Chopin waltzes.

It's the Strauss transcription that someone said to me was special, unfortunately it's not on spotify.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Brian on January 02, 2016, 10:12:41 AM
Coming soon: Piano Classics label 10 CD box set of "Early Recordings". Right now I can't find any info other than the title and number of CDs. Exciting news, regardless.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: George on January 02, 2016, 10:19:17 AM
Quote from: Brian on January 02, 2016, 10:12:41 AM
Coming soon: Piano Classics label 10 CD box set of "Early Recordings". Right now I can't find any info other than the title and number of CDs. Exciting news, regardless.

Their last set used the material that had previously appeared on APR's "FIORENTINO EDITION" series (and added one unique CD), so I'd expect the new box to use the APR material from their "The Early Recordings" series. I don't know if there was ten discs in that series, as I only have volumes 1 through 6 (one CD each.)
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Brian on January 02, 2016, 10:24:48 AM
Piano Classics already released APR Early Recordings Vols. 1-3 in their "Fiorentino Liszt Recordings" box and Vol. 5 (Rachmaninov) separately, which leaves only Vols. 4 (Liszt concertos + Chopin fantasy) and 6 (Schumann). That is the whole series (you have 'em all!).

So the question is, did they find 4 CDs of new material, and are they borrowing 4 CDs which they already released in their previous reissue boxes? Or did they find eight CDs of new material in the vaults somewhere??

Piano Classics Fiorentino Series
Vol. 1 - the Complete Berlin Sessions, 1990s
Vol. 2 - the Complete Liszt Solo Recordings (1960s and some overlap with Berlin '90s)
Vol. 3 - Rachmaninov Preludes + Sonatas
Vol. 4 - ??
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Holden on January 02, 2016, 10:38:31 AM
I know for a fact that there is a lot of unreleased SF material still out there, most of it from his early recording days. APR was steadily releasing it and decided to stop for whatever reason. I received a 2 CD set from someone close to this work which was made up entirely of unreleased (on CD) material which was with APR. Maybe this company has gained access to this. If so it's a big win for Fiorentino fans.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: George on January 02, 2016, 11:07:38 AM
Quote from: Brian on January 02, 2016, 10:24:48 AM
Piano Classics already released APR Early Recordings Vols. 1-3 in their "Fiorentino Liszt Recordings" box and Vol. 5 (Rachmaninov) separately, which leaves only Vols. 4 (Liszt concertos + Chopin fantasy) and 6 (Schumann). That is the whole series (you have 'em all!).

Good to know!
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Brian on January 20, 2016, 07:40:11 PM
Quote from: Brian on January 02, 2016, 10:10:35 AM
Also, it appears that the label Piano Classics, which has been issuing box sets of Sergio Fiorentino back-catalogue, is going to soon issue an "Early Recordings" box set of 10 CDs. I have not found a track list yet but I think it's a lot of his recordings from the 1960s.
We still don't have a track list, but we have a cover:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YZn7z8dpL._SY355_.jpg)
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Brian on February 26, 2016, 01:11:10 PM
Quote from: Brian on January 20, 2016, 07:40:11 PM
We still don't have a track list, but we have a cover:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YZn7z8dpL._SY355_.jpg)
TRACK LIST!!!!!

Fiorentino - Early Recordings 1953-1966 - 10 CD box
CD1
Beethoven: 32 Variations in C minor; Appassionata
Mozart: Concerto No. 21
Chopin: Sonata No. 2
CD2
Bach: Chromatic Fantasy & Fugue; Italian Concerto; Chaconne; "Organ Prelude and Fugue in D minor" (?)
Beethoven: Pathetique
CD3
Beethoven: Moonlight, Waldstein
Schumann: Faschingsschwank, Kinderszenen
CD4
Schumann: Carnaval, Arabeske, Symphonic Etudes
Brahms: Paganini Variations
CD5
Brahms: Handel Variations
miniatures & encores by Mendelssohn (an etude and a Song without Words), Borodin, Rachmaninov (Polka de V.R. and transcriptions)
CD6
Chopin: 4 Ballades, 4 Scherzi
CD7
Chopin: 27 Etudes
CD8
Chopin: 19 Waltzes, 4 Impromptus
CD9
Chopin: various polonaises
CD10
Chopin: more polonaises + Fantasy on Polish Airs
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: George on February 26, 2016, 01:22:46 PM
Quote from: Brian on February 26, 2016, 01:11:10 PM
TRACK LIST!!!!!

Fiorentino - Early Recordings 1953-1966 - 10 CD box
CD1
Beethoven: 32 Variations in C minor; Appassionata
Mozart: Concerto No. 21
Chopin: Sonata No. 2
CD2
Bach: Chromatic Fantasy & Fugue; Italian Concerto; Chaconne; "Organ Prelude and Fugue in D minor" (?)
Beethoven: Pathetique
CD3
Beethoven: Moonlight, Waldstein
Schumann: Faschingsschwank, Kinderszenen
CD4
Schumann: Carnaval, Arabeske, Symphonic Etudes
Brahms: Paganini Variations
CD5
Brahms: Handel Variations
miniatures & encores by Mendelssohn (an etude and a Song without Words), Borodin, Rachmaninov (Polka de V.R. and transcriptions)
CD6
Chopin: 4 Ballades, 4 Scherzi
CD7
Chopin: 27 Etudes
CD8
Chopin: 19 Waltzes, 4 Impromptus
CD9
Chopin: various polonaises
CD10
Chopin: more polonaises + Fantasy on Polish Airs

Wow, that isn't what we expected at all!
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: (poco) Sforzando on February 26, 2016, 04:27:42 PM
A very patrician, elegant artist. Perhaps a year before his death, he hoped to make a comeback and that included a recital in NY's Alice Tully Hall. I'm looking up the exact year in the NYTimes; I assume there was a review. I hadn't hear of him before and a group of us from a former incarnation of these message boards got an email telling us we must hear this stellar pianist! And so I went down and he was indeed something special. I remember that he started with an elegant version of the Bach-Busoni D major organ toccata and fugue (532), played very coloristically; then he programmed op. 110 and had a massive memory slip. He completely dropped the G minor return of the fugue and finally worked his way back to the last few minutes of the piece. The audience was more than prepared to forgive, but obviously the slip rattled him. Here's Tomassini from March 1998 (I remember a lot of salon encore pieces, but not the Schumann):

QuoteIt would be difficult for any artist of 71 to make a comeback. But in the case of the Italian pianist Sergio Fiorentino, who played a recital at Alice Tully Hall on Wednesday night, his return to the concert stage has come after a hiatus of 35 years.

Mr. Fiorentino, who was born in Naples, had won several prizes and embarked on a promising career by the time he was 21. His acclaimed American debut came in 1953. But the following year, his spine was injured in a South American plane crash. After some years away, he returned to concert giving and made a series of recordings still prized among collectors. But by the early 1960's, he had stopped performing and settled into teaching.

Then in 1994 he returned to the stage. Last year he played a little-noticed New York recital. This time, though the hall was not full, the audience was rooting for him. And by the time he played his seventh encore, this courtly, wizened gentleman must have felt a sense of arrival.

There were indications in his playing of what must have been astonishing virtuosity and elegance, and there is still much to admire. His tone is warm and full-bodied yet never harsh. There was breadth of line and great character in his musical conceptions, especially in his performance of the extraordinary transcription by Ferruccio Busoni of Bach's Prelude and Fugue in D Major for organ.

That said, Mr. Fiorentino's playing was not fully controlled. In the last movement of Beethoven's late piano sonata, Op. 110, his playing was tentative, and he suffered a serious memory lapse.

The most rewarding performance was of Schumann's great Fantasy, Op. 17. The playing was spacious and lyrical in the first movement, and there was vigor and rhythmic crispness in the march.

He was the most relaxed in some of the encores, especially chestnuts like Chopin's ''Minute Waltz'' and Etude in C-Sharp Minor, which he dashed off with panache.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Holden on February 27, 2016, 01:26:31 PM
Quote from: Brian on February 26, 2016, 01:11:10 PM
TRACK LIST!!!!!

Fiorentino - Early Recordings 1953-1966 - 10 CD box
CD1
Beethoven: 32 Variations in C minor; Appassionata
Mozart: Concerto No. 21
Chopin: Sonata No. 2

CD2
Bach: Chromatic Fantasy & Fugue; Italian Concerto; Chaconne; "Organ Prelude and Fugue in D minor" (?)
Beethoven: Pathetique
CD3
Beethoven: Moonlight, Waldstein
Schumann: Faschingsschwank, Kinderszenen
CD4
Schumann: Carnaval, Arabeske, Symphonic Etudes
Brahms: Paganini Variations
CD5
Brahms: Handel Variations
miniatures & encores by Mendelssohn (an etude and a Song without Words), Borodin, Rachmaninov (Polka de V.R. and transcriptions)
CD6
Chopin: 4 Ballades, 4 Scherzi
CD7
Chopin: 27 Etudes
CD8
Chopin: 19 Waltzes, 4 Impromptus
CD9
Chopin: various polonaises
CD10
Chopin: more polonaises + Fantasy on Polish Airs

As I've mentioned in another thread, a lot of Fiorentino attributed material was issued by Concert Artists, much of which is dubious. I am hoping that none of these recordings have been sourced from them. I've checked the Fiorentino website and he did make make recordings of all the material listed. However, the website lists the "Moonlight sonata" as 'now suspicious'. The Fantasy on Polish Airs does not appear as a recording on the site.

I think I'll get this set.

There is a lot more Fiorentino material out there just sitting and waiting to be released. Let's hope this label continues to do so.

EDIT: I have ordered this today. I have some of the recordings (a 2 CD assortment which I've highlighted in the track listing) in the set thanks to Ernst Lumpe who, more than anyone else, has brought Fiorentino to the spotlight. When I got those 2 CDs I was hoping that someone would reissue much of what is left and thankfully this has come to pass. It is also the last part of the edition so no Chopin Preludes or Nocturnes (of which I have the first nine). I do have a CDR of the Preludes and they are interesting for the way they are interpreted.

I'll report back when the CDs arrive.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Holden on June 30, 2016, 11:38:03 AM
This has arrived and I immediately went for the two Schumann discs based on previous listening to his Schumann on APR.

Once again I am reminded of how good this man was as a musician and pianist. He really makes you sit up and listen like the music is brand new. One thing that is a standout from the two CDs I've listened to is his wide dynamic range, even for music lifted directly from LP sources.

My next listen will be some of his Chopin as I am interested to hear, outside of YouTube, how he handles the mighty Etudes. The Waltzes come next - was he the first to go past the traditional '14' and record all 19 known works? Ditto for the Polonaises.

I'll report back but already I'm very pleased I bought this set.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: George on June 30, 2016, 12:25:44 PM
Quote from: Holden on June 30, 2016, 11:38:03 AM
This has arrived and I immediately went for the two Schumann discs based on previous listening to his Schumann on APR.

Once again I am reminded of how good this man was as a musician and pianist. He really makes you sit up and listen like the music is brand new. One thing that is a standout from the two CDs I've listened to is his wide dynamic range, even for music lifted directly from LP sources.

My next listen will be some of his Chopin as I am interested to hear, outside of YouTube, how he handles the mighty Etudes. The Waltzes come next - was he the first to go past the traditional '14' and record all 19 known works? Ditto for the Polonaises.

I'll report back but already I'm very pleased I bought this set.

Thanks, Holden. Is this entire set sourced from LPs?

It seems odd that they didn't include his Chopin Preludes.  >:(
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: George on June 30, 2016, 03:24:25 PM
Quote from: Brian on January 20, 2016, 07:40:11 PM
We still don't have a track list, but we have a cover:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YZn7z8dpL._SY355_.jpg)

Here's a review: http://musicweb-international.com/classrev/2016/Jun/Fiorentino_v4_PCLM0104.htm
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Holden on July 01, 2016, 02:39:38 PM
Quote from: George on June 30, 2016, 12:25:44 PM
Thanks, Holden. Is this entire set sourced from LPs?

It seems odd that they didn't include his Chopin Preludes.  >:(

No, there are recordings sourced from master tapes as well.

I agree about the Preludes, fortunately I have a copy on CD. Maybe there were some copyright issues.

Fiorentino also recorded the complete Nocturnes and they aren't there either.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: George on July 01, 2016, 02:49:43 PM
Quote from: Holden on July 01, 2016, 02:39:38 PM
No, there are recordings sourced from master tapes as well.

Cool, thanks.

How are the tracks that are sourced from vinyl? Did they do a good job (meaning retained the piano tone by not de-noising the transfer)?

QuoteI agree about the Preludes, fortunately I have a copy on CD. Maybe there were some copyright issues.

Fiorentino also recorded the complete Nocturnes and they aren't there either.

I still wonder if he actually did those. To me, they aren't played nearly as well as his Preludes are.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Holden on July 03, 2016, 03:52:49 PM
The sound is variable at times but overall pretty good. I can't detect any excessive denoising but maybe some were declicked. I've been through just about all the 10 CDs and am very happy with what I've got.

According to the website set up by Ernst Lumpe: http://www.fortepianos.org/elumpe/SFDiscography.html

Nocturnes ##1 - 20 recorded: 4 & 5 March 1960 London, Olympic Studios and these are genuine. I agree that they don't rate up there with the preludes. They were released on 2CDs by Saga - I have CD 1 only, a CDR from a friends collection.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: George on July 03, 2016, 04:23:07 PM
Thanks very much, Holden!
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Brian on June 20, 2019, 07:11:54 AM
Cross posting from "Purchases Today" as I think it's newsworthy:

I've been eyeing the tiny new archive-mining label Rhine Classics for a while. Based in Taiwan, Rhine Classics unearths and remasters previously unissued live tapes, often from artists who left virtually no recorded legacy. (To quote their site: " mostly never before released material | 24bit/96kHz | NO denoise | state of the art remastering ") But they're expensive, unavailable in conventional web stores, and until this week didn't have any sound clips available online.

Well, this week they finally uploaded some sample clips. They ALSO jacked up the prices and then announced a "sale" lowering prices back to normal. I strongly suspects this means a permanent price hike is coming very shortly. So I decided to take the plunge:

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1883/0853/products/RH-009_Fiorentino_Taiwan_booklet16_1CD_OK_1024x1024.jpg?v=1543016127) (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1883/0853/products/RH-006_Fiorentino-RACH_booklet32_6CD_OK_1024x1024.jpg?v=1552610690)

For Fiorentinophiles like me, this stuff just looks irresistible. The source is Fiorentino's own master tapes. Clips for the Taiwan recital (https://www.rhineclassics.com/collections/sergio-fiorentino-edition/products/rh-009-1cd-sergio-fiorentino-in-taiwan) and for the Rach solo cycle (https://www.rhineclassics.com/collections/sergio-fiorentino-edition/products/rh-006-6cd-sergio-fiorentino-rachmaninoff), which was performed and recorded live as a cycle over a series of concerts in September 1987.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: George on June 20, 2019, 07:05:23 PM
Quote from: Brian on June 20, 2019, 07:11:54 AM
Cross posting from "Purchases Today" as I think it's newsworthy:

I've been eyeing the tiny new archive-mining label Rhine Classics for a while. Based in Taiwan, Rhine Classics unearths and remasters previously unissued live tapes, often from artists who left virtually no recorded legacy. (To quote their site: " mostly never before released material | 24bit/96kHz | NO denoise | state of the art remastering ") But they're expensive, unavailable in conventional web stores, and until this week didn't have any sound clips available online.

Well, this week they finally uploaded some sample clips. They ALSO jacked up the prices and then announced a "sale" lowering prices back to normal. I strongly suspects this means a permanent price hike is coming very shortly. So I decided to take the plunge:

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1883/0853/products/RH-009_Fiorentino_Taiwan_booklet16_1CD_OK_1024x1024.jpg?v=1543016127) (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1883/0853/products/RH-006_Fiorentino-RACH_booklet32_6CD_OK_1024x1024.jpg?v=1552610690)

For Fiorentinophiles like me, this stuff just looks irresistible. The source is Fiorentino's own master tapes. Clips for the Taiwan recital (https://www.rhineclassics.com/collections/sergio-fiorentino-edition/products/rh-009-1cd-sergio-fiorentino-in-taiwan) and for the Rach solo cycle (https://www.rhineclassics.com/collections/sergio-fiorentino-edition/products/rh-006-6cd-sergio-fiorentino-rachmaninoff), which was performed and recorded live as a cycle over a series of concerts in September 1987.

Thanks for posting this, Brian! That Rachmaninoff set looks especially tempting. I hope this set comes to amazon, as I am a Prime member.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Brian on June 20, 2019, 07:14:16 PM
Quote from: George on June 20, 2019, 07:05:23 PM
Thanks for posting this, Brian! That Rachmaninoff set looks especially tempting. I hope this set comes to amazon, as I am a Prime member.
Rhine ships worldwide for free. But I did see their catalog in the Naxos distribution system scheduled for August...
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: George on June 21, 2019, 11:54:49 AM
Quote from: Brian on June 20, 2019, 07:14:16 PM
Rhine ships worldwide for free. But I did see their catalog in the Naxos distribution system scheduled for August...

Wow, free worldwide shipping is attractive. Have you bought from them before without any problems?
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Brian on June 21, 2019, 12:33:31 PM
Quote from: George on June 21, 2019, 11:54:49 AM
Wow, free worldwide shipping is attractive. Have you bought from them before without any problems?
Nope, first time. I was hesitant but we'll see - when it arrives I'll post how long it took, maybe a picture, and in fuller time some comments about the performances.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: George on June 21, 2019, 12:37:15 PM
Quote from: Brian on June 21, 2019, 12:33:31 PM
Nope, first time. I was hesitant but we'll see - when it arrives I'll post how long it took, maybe a picture, and in fuller time some comments about the performances.

Thanks, I look forward to it!
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: George on June 21, 2019, 05:52:32 PM
Quote from: Brian on June 20, 2019, 07:11:54 AM(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1883/0853/products/RH-009_Fiorentino_Taiwan_booklet16_1CD_OK_1024x1024.jpg?v=1543016127)

Found two reviews of the above set:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2019/Mar/Fiorentino_Taiwan_RH009.htm

https://www.audaud.com/sergio-fiorentino-live-in-taiwan-piano-beethoven-bach-scriabin-rhine-classics/
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Brian on July 09, 2019, 06:25:48 AM
Quote from: Brian on June 20, 2019, 07:11:54 AM
Cross posting from "Purchases Today" as I think it's newsworthy:

I've been eyeing the tiny new archive-mining label Rhine Classics for a while. Based in Taiwan, Rhine Classics unearths and remasters previously unissued live tapes, often from artists who left virtually no recorded legacy. (To quote their site: " mostly never before released material | 24bit/96kHz | NO denoise | state of the art remastering ") But they're expensive, unavailable in conventional web stores, and until this week didn't have any sound clips available online.

Well, this week they finally uploaded some sample clips. They ALSO jacked up the prices and then announced a "sale" lowering prices back to normal. I strongly suspects this means a permanent price hike is coming very shortly. So I decided to take the plunge:

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1883/0853/products/RH-009_Fiorentino_Taiwan_booklet16_1CD_OK_1024x1024.jpg?v=1543016127) (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1883/0853/products/RH-006_Fiorentino-RACH_booklet32_6CD_OK_1024x1024.jpg?v=1552610690)

For Fiorentinophiles like me, this stuff just looks irresistible. The source is Fiorentino's own master tapes. Clips for the Taiwan recital (https://www.rhineclassics.com/collections/sergio-fiorentino-edition/products/rh-009-1cd-sergio-fiorentino-in-taiwan) and for the Rach solo cycle (https://www.rhineclassics.com/collections/sergio-fiorentino-edition/products/rh-006-6cd-sergio-fiorentino-rachmaninoff), which was performed and recorded live as a cycle over a series of concerts in September 1987.
My copies have arrived and I've started listening so thought I would set down a few thoughts.

First, as to the ordering. Rhine Classics CDs ship from Taiwan for free worldwide. The web shop told me that it would update the status page when my order shipped, and also told me there would be a tracking number on my PayPal invoice. Neither of these things were true, so I had no way of knowing when my box would arrive. It turned out to be 16 calendar days, including Sundays and the July 4 holiday. The box was sturdy and in immaculate condition; the inside was crammed to the last centimeter with Taiwanese newspapers. Interesting reading  ;D

The CD packaging is very professional. I haven't opened the Live in Taiwan recital yet, but I opened the Rachmaninov box - very sturdy again, and matte finish rather than shiny if that matters to you (I think shiny is a bit cheap-looking), with sleeves made from something a little more durable than paper. One of the CD sleeves spent a hot, hot Texas day in my car without getting all warped by the heat and humidity. There's a 32-page booklet all in English with a short biographical essay on Fiorentino, a longer reminiscence by the Italian guy who organized the Rachmaninov concert series, and a philosophical interview with Fiorentino as well. It's all actually pretty fascinating - I enjoyed reading about the artist's attitude toward concertizing and teaching. The Italian impresario's essay is quite amusing; there's a little bit where he says he was preparing to advertise the live Rach cycle as the first time a virtuoso had ever presented the complete solo works of Rachmaninov live. But then he realized that Howard Shelley had done it in London a few years prior. His judgment: "Shelley is a respected pianist, but not a virtuoso." So he didn't change the ads. ;D

The booklet also includes color photos of the original concert programs and the handwritten score of Fiorentino's own transcription of "Vocalise".

On to the listening. So far I've listened to the preludes Opp. 23 and 32 and one of the "bonuses" included, a live radio broadcast of the Paganini Rhapsody from 1991 (Santa Cecilia/Fedoseyev). The prelude performances are dazzling. They're much faster than the young Fiorentino's studio recording - totaling 65:30ish without the notorious C sharp minor. But really only Op. 32 No. 8 suffers from haste; it's a blur that tests the boundary of coherence. The rest is dazzlingly virtuosic from a pianist who didn't like to show off, with varied characterization given to each individual piece. After hearing a lot of studio-bound, overly cautious recordings in recent years that don't differentiate between the different moods of the different preludes, it's nice to hear somebody treat them all like separate creatures. The famous G minor march is some of the most exhilarating playing I've heard from this pianist. And the great B minor prelude Op. 32 No. 10 - in a reading much slower than is traditional - is just enormously powerful.

There is one big, big caveat. For whatever reason, Fiorentino's own original master tapes for Op. 23 Nos 2-10 have shifted up a whole step. It doesn't really sound warped. But the radiant prelude in D is absolutely, 100% in the key of E, and that march I mentioned is very definitely in A minor. This is confusing as hell, especially because the 32-page booklet does not discuss tape provenance or give any hint as to what was about to happen to my ears. But after a while, I was able to adjust, and when each prelude ended, my brain was able to transpose my mental expectation for the next piece. There is luckily no such problem with Op. 32.

And then we have the Paganini Rhapsody. It's that rarest of creatures, a 1991 mono recording, probably a private copy of a radio broadcast. (Again, an essay about provenance would have been nice.) True, the glockenspiel rings out across the whole soundstage, but actually the sound is very clear and decently balanced, and you can hear everybody. It's especially a pleasure to hear the piano and orchestra trade phrases back and forth like jazz musicians.

Oh: and the performance is a knockout. Like "I forgot how good this piece is" good. It helps that Fiorentino and Fedoseyev don't bother with little pauses between variations; instead they let the music flow unceasingly, in a stream that only builds momentum until the big moments. It's truly rhapsodic. And Variation 18 is no exception - instead of stopping the show and getting all Hollywoody, everybody enjoys the big moment, plays it to the hilt, and then jumps right on to the next thing. As with some of the preludes, I'm dazzled by how effortless our protagonist makes it sound.

Will definitely be spinning the Corelli and Chopin Variations later this week, and probably another CD on the weekend. So far, some critiques as to how this box was done, but good ol' Sergio is very much holding up his end of the bargain. And so far as I can tell without hearing more about it, the Rhine sound guy(s) did their best with the audio sources they had.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: George on July 09, 2019, 11:24:36 AM
Thanks very much for that, Brian!
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Brian on July 17, 2019, 07:31:05 AM
Quick update: the Corelli variations, Vocalise transcription, and very early romantic salon pieces Opp. 2 and 10 are very good too (Op. 10 is played out of order). The early stuff isn't my favorite Rach but Fiorentino makes it sound a lot more musically substantial than most interpreters do.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Brian on January 18, 2021, 05:48:28 PM
Big spring for my fellow Fiorentino fanatics. APR is rereleasing the 2CD "live in Berlin" set (Beethoven Op 110, Chopin No 3, Scriabin No 4) etc. Aaaaand Rhine Classics is releasing a box called "Live in the USA 1996-97-98" - 9 CDs of concert tapes. Contents are listed here and it's a treasure chest: https://www.rhineclassics.com/collections/sergio-fiorentino-edition/products/rh-015-9cd-sergio-fiorentino-usa

Also, anyone on here - like me - who bought the Complete Rachmaninov box can now ask for, and receive free of charge, a replacement of the Complete Preludes CD with a new remastering of Op 23 in the correct pitch. The original version had the whole opus a key sharp. My comments on it are elsewhere in the thread. I will be happy to order the USA live box direct from them to grab the corrected preludes because the performances are fabulously virtuosic.
Title: Re: Sergio Fiorentino
Post by: Mandryka on November 27, 2021, 03:46:50 AM
What does the Fiorentino gang think of his Chopin nocturnes and waltzes? (apart from the crap sound!)