Anybody considering leaving Twitter now that is is owned by Elon Musk?
I have an account, I've made one tweet, I think, just to see if my account worked. I just checked and I follow about two dozen accounts and am followed back by six. My participation consists of ignoring periodic emails telling me what I've missed on twitter. I don't think it is worth the effort to delete my account.
I ask myself why Elon Musk needs to own Twitter. Consider this. Tesla makes a tenth of the number of cars as Ford, but has a market capitalization ten times higher than Ford. The market capitalization per car manufactured is 100 times higher than Ford. From this I conclude that 1% of the value of Tesla derives from making cars and 99% derives from Elon Musk's tweets. He needs to own twitter to insure that he is not banned.
If you play around with your settings in Twitter, you won't get those emails.
I will leave Twitter if and when its becomes unusable or not worthwhile for getting news and updates on some topics I'l interested in.
Quote from: JBS on October 30, 2022, 07:19:48 PM
If you play around with your settings in Twitter, you won't get those emails.
I will leave Twitter if and when its becomes unusable or not worthwhile for getting news and updates on some topics I'l interested in.
The emails don't really bother me.
Getting news from Twitter seems bizarre to me. I subscribe to the NYTimes, I look at headlines on some sites I don't subscribe to (WaPo, etc), I look at some sites without firewall (BBC News, CNN, CBC) and I get news pushed to me by a few others (Yahoo News, etc.) I don't seem to need Twitter.
I am less inclined to use it now that it seems like it will be a tool of the Elon Musk cult of personality.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on October 30, 2022, 07:24:18 PM
The emails don't really bother me.
Getting news from Twitter seems bizarre to me. I subscribe to the NYTimes, I look at headlines on some sites I don't subscribe to (WaPo, etc), I look at some sites without firewall (BBC News, CNN, CBC) and I get news pushed to me by a few others (Yahoo News, etc.) I don't seem to need Twitter.
I am less inclined to use it now that it seems like it will be a tool of the Elon Musk cult of personality.
I follow various journalists, columnists, and media accounts, so it amounts to the same thing. Some are specialized enough and quick enough (like Scotusblog for US Supreme Court stuff) that they're better--usually more detailed than anything CNN or similar will publish if they publish anything at all.
The key is that these are sources I know about from outside Twitter.
Not as yet seriously contemplating an exit. I've dipped my virtual toe in both Tribel and Mastodon and doubt I'll do any more than that.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on October 30, 2022, 07:11:59 PMI ask myself why Elon Musk needs to own Twitter.
For the same reason that Jeff Bezos needs to own the Washington Post, Patrick Soon-Shiong needs to own the LA Times, or Laurene Powell Jobs needs to own The Atlantic. Some billionaires feel impelled to own media companies. That is an ancient impulsion. Try to control messaging in the public sphere.
Jack Dorsey is in beta testing stages for a new social media app. Disaffected Twitter account holders might be able to look into that. Perhaps the celebrities who have publicly proclaimed they are fleeing Twitter will join up. The exchanges should be robust and powerful.
Full disclosure, I do not use Twitter.
Musk tweeted a link to an article in a pseudo newspaper claiming that Paul Pelosi was attacked by a male prostitute he had hired. The same newspaper had previously published an article revealing that Hilary Clinton had died in 2016 and an impostor was sent to debate Donald Trump.
We can see where this is going...
Quote from: Spotted Horses on October 31, 2022, 07:48:49 AMThe same newspaper had previously published an article revealing that Hilary Clinton had died in 2016 and an impostor was sent to debate Donald Trump.
That may explain her recent shilling for crushthecoup.org.
Then there's Elon Musk, whose scandalous and bumbling attempt at taking over Twitter suddenly "succeeded" when Twitter's leadership essentially walked off and allowed themselves to be fired. But make no mistake, Musk isn't succeeding here. He made clear that he didn't really want to buy Twitter – at least not at the asking price – and he only ended up going through with it in order to avoid testifying under oath in a scandal that the federal government is reportedly investigating him over.
So now Musk is stuck massively overpaying for Twitter, with a stunning percentage of his personal wealth now tied up in the deal, and a number of outside investors who are going to be breathing down his neck. Twitter has already lost at least one major advertiser, meaning Musk has to be on his best behavior for awhile in order to keep Twitter financially viable. Unfortunately for him, he doesn't appear capable of that.
Musk is already tweeting phony, disgusting, and disproven right wing conspiracy theories, and then deleting them hours later. He knows he can't get away with tweeting this kind of garbage. Yet he appears to be so psychologically unwell, he actually believes the unhinged conspiracy theories he's posting. If he's so unwell that he thinks pizza gate level phony stories are real, it's not clear that he's capable of even temporarily mimicking sane behavior for the sake of saving himself from financial ruin.
Whereas Trump very visibly lost the Oval Office and is now visibly on the verge of criminal indictment, and Kanye West has very visibly lost his shoe deals and such, Musk is (for now) able to create the illusion that he somehow has us all right where he wants us. After all, he technically has control of Twitter. But the fact that he's deleting his most harmful tweets means he knows he can't get away with that kind of deranged behavior. Yet he'll likely just end up tweeting new unhinged right wing conspiracy theories, because he can't help himself. Twitter is now his prison. He's stuck with it, can't get rid of it, and the more he craps up the place the more he harms his own status and future. If Musk screws up Twitter badly enough, he could even theoretically lose control of his car company. The guy is that leveraged, on a deal that would be almost guaranteed to lose him money even if he weren't actively sabotaging himself.
RTWT here (https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/unraveling-in-real-time/47683/).
The MAGA/QAnon bullshit hasn't crept into my little corner of Twitter yet, which is populated in the main by British music people. I have only a few political people I follow anyway, and I rarely venture out onto my timeline. I read selected posts and move on. So when the slime gets around to affecting me personally I will leave. I believe Jack Dorsey's new venture is called BlueSky or sommat such. I'll check it out, it's a far more likely destination than Truth Social, for example. ::)
8)
I have an account, never tweeted, only used it for following gaming related release announcements (it's how I ended up getting my PS5, and also another device).
Quote from: Todd on October 31, 2022, 05:07:59 AM
For the same reason that Jeff Bezos needs to own the Washington Post, Patrick Soon-Shiong needs to own the LA Times, or Laurene Powell Jobs needs to own The Atlantic. Some billionaires feel impelled to own media companies. That is an ancient impulsion. Try to control messaging in the public sphere.
It's all pursuit of obtaining power. Very natural thing to do.
But the approach of allowing speech as much as possible, within the legal limits is something I approve. People shouldn't be banned for different worldviews.
Also, people nowadays are obsessed with "misinformation." It's usually not a personal concern if you think about stuff before blindly following something written on the internet. Read something that tells you that drinking bleach cures the flu? Well... hehe, that's more of a case of natural selection at play.
Only time I can imagine it being a concern is something extreme like: "Person or group X is planning to attack location Y." That is something could provoke violence. It might already be illegal, though?
Quote from: greg on November 01, 2022, 06:42:56 PMBut the approach of allowing speech as much as possible, within the legal limits is something I approve. People shouldn't be banned for different worldviews.
It's the "within the legal limits" that's the tricky thing. Pressure to suppress speech waxes and wanes. The political orientation of those who wish to suppress speech changes over time. When I was young, the right was most active in this regard, though they were actively aided by the left. Now it is the left that most actively seeks to suppress speech, though the right actively aids them. Tools of silence are sometimes statutory and sometimes contractual (eg, terms of service violations).
One benefit of living in Oregon is that its Constitution protects free speech more than the US Constitution. Stripping is literally protected speech, for instance. The ACLU states that Oregon "is regarded as a model in the area of free speech." Still, eternal vigilance and all that. For real.
That means being aware of and concerned about who owns and controls the press and social media as much as what content grabs headlines. Certain good billionaires have kept low profiles as they have exercised control over major outlets. There is no reason to believe that they are actively concerned with freedom of speech or even freedom of the press, as counterintuitive as that may at first seem. Actions that can be taken to counter such control are limited, and mostly involve migrating to new sources or platforms, which means awareness is critical.
U.S. exploring whether it has authority to review Musk's Twitter deal (https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2022/11/01/musk-twitter-treasury-department-review/)
Related news: There are now leaks about Homeland Security monitoring and sensuring speech on social media.
Please God, Let Elon Musk Kill Twitter (https://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/please-god-let-elon-musk-kill-twitter?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2)
Quote from: Todd on November 02, 2022, 05:19:28 AM
When I was young, the right was most active in this regard, though they were actively aided by the left.
I'm a bit too young to remember the backlash against D&D (though currently watching the new Stranger Things, which displays this very nicely), but I do remember the backlash against violent video games, Harry Potter, and even some against Pokemon IIRC.
Yeah, THAT is why I despise the modern left. Because if this garbage, toxic nonsense anti-fun puritanism which ruins everything. Same as the right wing back in the day.
There have been many, so many nonsense left-wing claims in the last several years that remind me of the dumb right-wing logic of "violent video games cause real world violence." I can provide some, but won't bother, because there's just too many nonsense beliefs to even start talking about.
(to give the modern left some credit, at least they have a belief in fair wages and 40-hour workweek, that is one good thing)
So... if it can drive away what it has become (full of stuff like feminists raging that an anime character's boobs are unrealistically big), and openly embrace fun, then that is a step in the right direction.
Quote from: greg on November 02, 2022, 05:06:29 PM
(to give the modern left some credit, at least they have a belief in fair wages and 40-hour workweek, that is one good thing)
Modern left believes in 30-hour workweek (better work - free time balance).
Quote from: greg on November 02, 2022, 05:06:29 PMI'm a bit too young to remember the backlash against D&D (though currently watching the new Stranger Things, which displays this very nicely), but I do remember the backlash against violent video games, Harry Potter, and even some against Pokemon IIRC.
I was not referring to D&D.
NOTE TO ALL INTERESTED PARTIES:
This innocent thread is NOT going to become the new USA Politics thread.
That is all.
Gurn 8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 03, 2022, 06:03:38 AM
NOTE TO ALL INTERESTED PARTIES:
This innocent thread is NOT going to become the new USA Politics thread.
That is all.
Gurn 8)
Yes it is, because they all do unless heavily moderated. This already is. Same inanities and sleeping semtex.
No offence intended, of course.
Quote from: foxandpeng on November 03, 2022, 06:37:59 AM
Yes it is, because they all do unless heavily moderated. This already is. Same inanities and sleeping semtex.
No offence intended, of course.
We'll see what we see. I appreciate the causes for your cynicism, but defeatism creates self-fulfilling prophecies. You know, even though the means exists to completely control everything that gets published here, it doesn't gain anything for the group as a whole to only allow 'approved' points of view.
The OP should have started a poll instead, it's a yes or no question, innit?
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 03, 2022, 07:15:48 AM
We'll see what we see. I appreciate the causes for your cynicism, but defeatism creates self-fulfilling prophecies. You know, even though the means exists to completely control everything that gets published here, it doesn't gain anything for the group as a whole to only allow 'approved' points of view.
The OP should have started a poll instead, it's a yes or no question, innit?
8)
I know the answer will be no. I'm more interested in the reasons.
Twitter is not a much of a money making enterprise, Musk overpaid based on a bluff he got called on. It is some sort of ego trip for him, which is not good if Twitter is indeed a platform people actually depend on for information.
I'm on Twitter quite a bit, both personally and professionally. At the moment, I'm in "wait and see" mode, depending on what happens in the next few weeks or months. Musk's behavior so far is not particularly encouraging, if plans are true to decimate Twitter's staff, not to mention his own mockery of some of Twitter's users. Mostly, I like the platform. I curate my own feed strongly, and have blocked thousands of accounts that are either bots, or a waste of time and energy. There are many people and accounts worth following, so I try to focus on those. But I'm also keeping an eye on Bluesky, the platform under development by Twitter's creator, Jack Dorsey, and am on the lookout for other new ones.
Social media is great (like GMG, for instance), but I also strongly believe in stepping away from the computer and taking a walk, or cooking something delicious, or going to a concert, or having dinner with friends. (Last Sunday, a three-hour Moroccan lunch was divine, with no one pulling out their phones.)
I do agree with the comment above about Musk overpaying on a bluff. He seems to think that the whole thing is a bit of a joke, which in my book, doesn't bode well for the platform's future. But again, we will see what happens.
-Bruce
Quote from: Brewski on November 03, 2022, 08:32:13 AM
Social media is great (like GMG, for instance), but I also strongly believe in stepping away from the computer and taking a walk, or cooking something delicious, or going to a concert, or having dinner with friends. (Last Sunday, a three-hour Moroccan lunch was divine, with no one pulling out their phones.)
I think stepping away from social media is good for the mental health, especially Twitter, which given the state of the USA and the world these days is a constant barrage of bad news, scandals, corruption, trolling, fascism, etc. This weekend I took a long break for a quick vacation, didn't miss Twitter for a second, came back, signed on, and remembered just how different my view of the world is when I'm hooked up to the Twitter machine.
Quote from: Brewski on November 03, 2022, 08:32:13 AM
He seems to think that the whole thing is a bit of a joke, which in my book, doesn't bode well for the platform's future. But again, we will see what happens.
-Bruce
Yup. Did you see the kerfuffle overnight where Rep. Ocasio-Cortez tweeted a joke (that he spent $44 billion on the purchase and all he can think to do is to go around asking people for $8 subscriptions), and in response, Musk had Twitter block AOC from viewing her notifications, interactions, and replies? His "oversight" is quickly devolving into schoolyard humor.
Obviously, my first instinct now is to use my whole account to make Elon Musk jokes, but for professional reasons it's wiser for me to stay engaged and hope it's a useful tool going forward.
Musk is a sick man.
Quote from: Brian on November 03, 2022, 08:43:49 AM
I think stepping away from social media is good for the mental health, especially Twitter, which given the state of the USA and the world these days is a constant barrage of bad news, scandals, corruption, trolling, fascism, etc. This weekend I took a long break for a quick vacation, didn't miss Twitter for a second, came back, signed on, and remembered just how different my view of the world is when I'm hooked up to the Twitter machine.
Enthusiastic yes.
Quote from: Brian on November 03, 2022, 08:43:49 AM
Yup. Did you see the kerfuffle overnight where Rep. Ocasio-Cortez tweeted a joke (that he spent $44 billion on the purchase and all he can think to do is to go around asking people for $8 subscriptions), and in response, Musk had Twitter block AOC from viewing her notifications, interactions, and replies? His "oversight" is quickly devolving into schoolyard humor.
Obviously, my first instinct now is to use my whole account to make Elon Musk jokes, but for professional reasons it's wiser for me to stay engaged and hope it's a useful tool going forward.
I did see that, and thought it more than a bit juvenile. ::) If this is the way he's going to run things, then I will likely bail eventually. Also, as with some other billionaires, my respect for him would increase if he were to apply even a
fraction of his net worth (currently $210 billion) to solving any number of social problems—I don't care, just pick one: hunger, housing, education, social justice, etc. Imagine how any of those could benefit from a $44 billion infusion, or even a $2 billion infusion.
But no, he's spending $44 billion to engage in silly banter about monetizing the platform. If he's not going to take his purchase seriously—and use it for good—I'm not sure I should spend much time there.
-Bruce
Quote from: Brewski on November 03, 2022, 08:32:13 AM
I'm on Twitter quite a bit, both personally and professionally. At the moment, I'm in "wait and see" mode, depending on what happens in the next few weeks or months. Musk's behavior so far is not particularly encouraging, if plans are true to decimate Twitter's staff, not to mention his own mockery of some of Twitter's users. Mostly, I like the platform. I curate my own feed strongly, and have blocked thousands of accounts that are either bots, or a waste of time and energy. There are many people and accounts worth following, so I try to focus on those. But I'm also keeping an eye on Bluesky, the platform under development by Twitter's creator, Jack Dorsey, and am on the lookout for other new ones.
Social media is great (like GMG, for instance), but I also strongly believe in stepping away from the computer and taking a walk, or cooking something delicious, or going to a concert, or having dinner with friends. (Last Sunday, a three-hour Moroccan lunch was divine, with no one pulling out their phones.)
I do agree with the comment above about Musk overpaying on a bluff. He seems to think that the whole thing is a bit of a joke, which in my book, doesn't bode well for the platform's future. But again, we will see what happens.
-Bruce
Sounds like a wise way to use Twitter, Bruce. And I'm jealous of your leisurely Moroccan lunch! You'll have to tells us more about it in the food thread. :)
I've never used Twitter myself for what it's worth.
PD
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 03, 2022, 08:17:14 AM
I know the answer will be no. I'm more interested in the reasons.
Twitter is not a much of a money making enterprise, Musk overpaid based on a bluff he got called on. It is some sort of ego trip for him, which is not good if Twitter is indeed a platform people actually depend on for information.
👌. Though you probably couldn't tell from my earlier reply then, I AM considering leaving, but the shit isn't piled any deeper than usual yet, so I haven't. But my answer then would be yes, I am. But no, I haven't. 🙃
🤠🤓
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 03, 2022, 06:03:38 AM
NOTE TO ALL INTERESTED PARTIES:
This innocent thread is NOT going to become the new USA Politics thread.
That is all.
Gurn 8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 01, 2022, 06:25:46 PMThe MAGA/QAnon bullshit hasn't crept into my little corner of Twitter yet
Quote from: Todd on November 03, 2022, 03:33:08 AM
I was not referring to D&D.
Oh, hm.
Well, it might be considered an example of modern pre-internet cancel culture. So maybe the same idea that you were getting at?
Quote from: 71 dB on November 02, 2022, 11:12:01 PM
Modern left believes in 30-hour workweek (better work - free time balance).
Well, I do too, at least ideally. Just wonder what is the minimum before society stops even functioning. Maybe find that number and add 5 hours.
We shouldn't have to be punished our entire lives for not being born into riches, inheriting wealth for doing nothing- which is what overwork is. So any way to reduce it without taking unreasonable sacrifices is ideal.
Quote from: greg on November 03, 2022, 06:37:24 PM
Well, I do too, at least ideally. Just wonder what is the minimum before society stops even functioning. Maybe find that number and add 5 hours.
We shouldn't have to be punished our entire lives for not being born into riches, inheriting wealth for doing nothing- which is what overwork is. So any way to reduce it without taking unreasonable sacrifices is ideal.
I don't think there is a threshold that suddenly makes the society not functioning. The society functions
differently. According to studies shorter work days (e.g. 6 hrs compared to 8 hrs) increase productivity so that what gets done during a workday isn't much less. On professions that require a lot of expertise it make more sense to have longer workdays and a composer shouldn't stop composing in the moment of creativity just to "work less".
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 02, 2022, 08:57:25 AM
Please God, Let Elon Musk Kill Twitter (https://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/please-god-let-elon-musk-kill-twitter?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2)
Elon Musk says Twitter has had 'massive' revenue drop as advertisers pause spendinghttps://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/04/elon-musk-says-twitter-has-had-massive-revenue-drop.html
Musk blamed the reluctance of advertisers, such as General Mills, to use the platform on "activists" and characterized it as an "attack on the first amendment."
Mr Musk needs a civics lesson, I think, since the first amendment prevents the government from restricting free speech. It doesn't compel individuals or private companies to publish or support your free speech by patronizing your business.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 31, 2022, 04:50:14 AM
Not as yet seriously contemplating an exit. I've dipped my virtual toe in both Tribel and Mastodon and doubt I'll do any more than that.
Mastodon seems to have a tiny user base. How did you pick your server?
The only social media I've ever used is GMG --- which is bad enough. ;D
No, seriously, I have no Facebook, Twitter or Tik-Tok account and honestly as of late I've been distancing myself even from watching TV or reading online news and commentaries. I just focus on my family and my hobbies, none of which are dependent on any social media.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 04, 2022, 09:02:31 AM
Mr Musk needs a civics lesson, I think, since the first amendment prevents the government from restricting free speech. It doesn't compel individuals or private companies to publish or support your free speech by patronizing your business.
Yes. I would add that he apparently needs lessons in a number of other things, too—at least, based on his seemingly clumsy handling of the whole thing. On Twitter, some attorneys are already advising laid-off employees that the process of axing staff may not have been handled correctly.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 04, 2022, 09:13:08 AM
Mastodon seems to have a tiny user base. How did you pick your server?
I'd be interested in this, too. Took a brief look at Mastodon, and not quite grasping how it works.
Quote from: Florestan on November 04, 2022, 09:25:55 AM
The only social media I've ever used is GMG --- which is bad enough. ;D
No, seriously, I have no Facebook, Twitter or Tik-Tok account and honestly as of late I've been distancing myself even from watching TV or reading online news and commentaries. I just focus on my family and my hobbies, none of which are dependent on any social media.
Well, good for you (no sarcasm intended), no need to diverge from that path. While I enjoy some social media—emphasis on "some"—it is not the center of my existence.
-Bruce
Quote from: Brewski on November 04, 2022, 09:30:19 AM
Well, good for you (no sarcasm intended),
None taken,
Bruce, rest assured.
Quoteno need to diverge from that path. While I enjoy some social media—emphasis on "some"—it is not the center of my existence.
Very seriously, the only social media I need is GMG, even if my wife would say that it's one too much nevertheless. :D
Quote from: Florestan on November 04, 2022, 09:35:23 AM
None taken, Bruce, rest assured.
Very seriously, the only social media I need is GMG, even if my wife would say that it's one too much nevertheless. :D
She doesn't like "cat chat" groups?
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 04, 2022, 09:36:21 AM
She doesn't like "cat chat" groups?
PD
That's what GMG needs: an expansion into "cat chat" territory, e.g., "The Good Cat Guide." ;D
-Bruce
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 04, 2022, 09:36:21 AM
She doesn't like "cat chat" groups?
PD
:D
Truth is, I had been a GMGer long before I met her --- and ever since I met (and one year later married) her she has been heroically putting up with my GMG dependence. As a Romanian saying goes, "A better wife I cannot find, a worse one I do not need." :D
Quote from: Florestan on November 04, 2022, 09:44:09 AM
:D
Truth is, I had been a GMGer long before I met her --- and ever since I met (and one year later married) her she has been heroically putting up with my GMG dependence. As a Romanian saying goes, "A better wife I cannot find, a worse one I do not need." :D
;D
How long has the GMG forum been around for?
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 04, 2022, 09:50:23 AM
;D
How long has the GMG forum been around for?
PD
I have no idea. I joined in 2006 (I think), got married officially in 2008 and religiously in 2009.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 04, 2022, 09:02:31 AM
Elon Musk says Twitter has had 'massive' revenue drop as advertisers pause spending
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/04/elon-musk-says-twitter-has-had-massive-revenue-drop.html
Musk blamed the reluctance of advertisers, such as General Mills, to use the platform on "activists" and characterized it as an "attack on the first amendment."
Mr Musk needs a civics lesson, I think, since the first amendment prevents the government from restricting free speech. It doesn't compel individuals or private companies to publish or support your free speech by patronizing your business.
I suspect Mr Musk is well aware of how advertising works and the protections afforded under the Constitution. He also knows that he has to placate advertisers, which he publicly attempted to do last week. (Have people's memories become so short and headline dependent that his lengthy tweet has already been forgotten?) Musk has also been known to make eyebrow raising tweets, from time to time.
I shan't shed a tear for Musk. Despite the possibility that he takes a massive personal loss on Twitter, he's still worth north of a couple hundred billion dollars, and some people have made bold predictions that he could become the first trillionaire. He'll be OK, whether Twitter survives or not.
Quote from: Florestan on November 04, 2022, 09:25:55 AM
The only social media I've ever used is GMG --- which is bad enough. ;D
GMG is the nicest, friendliest "social media" place I've ever known. Maybe when people complain that there is too much arguing on GMG, I don't understand it because I am so used to the standard on Twitter. ;D
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 04, 2022, 09:50:23 AM
;D
How long has the GMG forum been around for?
PD
I joined in 2002: it wasn't
brand new, but it was very recent. Primarily occupied by a splintered off faction of another website. The color scheme at the time: orange and purple with some lovely non-accenting trim, was wonderfully hideous. There were people there at the time (who shall remain nameless unless they prefer not to) who you would immediately recognize. Most you wouldn't. :)
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 04, 2022, 02:46:24 PM
The color scheme at the time: orange and purple with some lovely non-accenting trim, was wonderfully hideous.
It still haunts my dreams. 😬😁
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 04, 2022, 09:13:08 AM
Mastodon seems to have a tiny user base. How did you pick your server?
A chap I follow on Twitter is on the .art server. Apart from my first day of exploring, I've had trouble logging in. I haven't tried since, really. May give it another shot Sunday.
Quote from: Brewski on November 04, 2022, 09:30:19 AM
I'd be interested in this, too. Took a brief look at Mastodon, and not quite grasping how it works.
-Bruce
As you may see, I hadn't near twigged it, myself. If further attempts prove successful, I shall report, gents!
Somehow Musk abruptly firing 3,700 employees-- half Twitter's workforce-- upsets no one but those fired.
Quote from: geralmar on November 04, 2022, 07:00:08 PM
Somehow Musk abruptly firing 3,700 employees-- half Twitter's workforce-- upsets no one but those fired.
I wouldn't say it upsets no one, it is on the front page of The NY Times.
Seems like Musk is intent on a crash and burn trajectory for Twitter. Maybe the 3,700 remaining employees will also be employed elsewhere in the foreseeable future. :(
Quote from: Todd on November 04, 2022, 10:03:47 AMI shan't shed a tear for Musk. Despite the possibility that he takes a massive personal loss on Twitter, he's still worth north of a couple hundred billion dollars, and some people have made bold predictions that he could become the first trillionaire. He'll be OK, whether Twitter survives or not.
Well yes, but it is not like he logs into his BoA app and sees a balance of a couple hundred billion dollars in his checking account. He has large equity stakes in various companies which, if he sold them, could tank the companies. He had to take on 13 billion in debt to close the 44 billion acquisition of Twitter. Not that he's poor, mind you, but it's complicated.
Tesla market capitalization is based largely on Musk's cult of personality. But I was reading that electric car manufacturers have emerged in China that sell cars as good or better than a Tesla for half the price. Musk's future as a trillionaire is not entirely assured.
Quote from: Brewski on November 03, 2022, 08:32:13 AM
Social media is great (like GMG, for instance), but I also strongly believe in stepping away from the computer and taking a walk, or cooking something delicious, or going to a concert, or having dinner with friends. (Last Sunday, a three-hour Moroccan lunch was divine, with no one pulling out their phones.)
-Bruce
GMG is the
only social media I engage in!
I strongly agree with your strong agreement. Taking a walk (without bluetooth earbuds), cooking something delicious (or better, yet, eating it), and interacting with other humans live and in-person is my preference.
The Moroccan lunch sounds awesome, but if it was eaten in an authentic manner, I can understand why people would be reluctant to pull out their phones with Tagine on their fingers. :)
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 05, 2022, 01:39:24 AMNot that he's poor, mind you, but it's complicated.
Much more complicated than you know, or I know, or anyone on this forum knows. The business acumen displayed on this forum is rather markedly less sophisticated than that displayed on other sites. What occurs here is gossip, where some people believe they have thought of things that Musk or his advisors or his lawyers have not. That is unlikely, to say the least.
If Musk is not the first trillionaire, someone else will be. It's all good.
And if Twitter disappears due to Musk's mismanagement, and if Facebook shrinks and ends up catering to old people exclusively as it sheds younger users, and if TikTok is shut out of the US market because of federal action, other social media entities will replace them. Or not.
Quote from: Brian on November 04, 2022, 11:07:47 AM
GMG is the nicest, friendliest "social media" place I've ever known.
The official Tangerine Dream forum is by far the nicest place I have experienced. Ironically that place is nowadays very dead with almost no activity (no posts after August 12).
Twitter's Human Rights Lawyer Says Elon Musk Axed the Entire Human Rights Team (https://www.thewrap.com/twitter-laid-off-employees-sign-off-love-where-you-worked/)
From The Wrap. Infotainment at its most ideological.
Quote from: 71 dB on November 05, 2022, 04:53:07 AM
The official Tangerine Dream forum is by far the nicest place I have experienced. Ironically that place is nowadays very dead with almost no activity (no posts after August 12).
I should listen me to some Tangerine Dream....
Quote from: Todd on November 05, 2022, 04:11:49 AM
And if Twitter disappears due to Musk's mismanagement, and if Facebook shrinks and ends up catering to old people exclusively as it sheds younger users, and if TikTok is shut out of the US market because of federal action, other social media entities will replace them. Or not.
Agreed. Social Media has long surpassed its status as a phenomenon and for better or worse it is now a fact of life. Since most of us are First-Worlders here, many may not realize the depth to which it has penetrated in Third World countries. Like many of you, I actually have an entirely different life away from here, and every day I communicate with people in remote areas of South America (mostly) and they taught me how to use WhatsApp as a social media platform. Their version of Instagram.
Anyway, those who think they are going to wait out the fad and then return to
vita sicut erat ante, are destined for disappointment.
🤠
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 05, 2022, 06:35:05 AM
I should listen me to some Tangerine Dream....
You know yourself best what you should do. ;)
Apparently California law requires a 60 day notice for a mass layoff, so the 3,700 employees are entitled to 60 days' pay and health benefit coverage.
From the Verge: Elon Musk's Twitter layoffs leave whole teams gutted (https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/4/23439790/elon-musk-twitter-layoffs-trust-and-safety-teams-severance)
Quote from: Alex Heath and Mia SatoAccording to emails sent to laid off employees and an internal FAQ obtained by The Verge, those impacted will continue to be paid and receive benefits until dates that appear to match the length of the mass layoff notice required by US federal and state law. If they sign a "Release of All Claims" document and separation agreement, all US employees will then receive one month of base pay as severance that is taxed at the higher supplemental income rate.
I strongly suspect that Musk hired outside counsel specializing in employment law to make sure the layoffs comply with all applicable laws. It turns out that CEOs are not stupid people. Some employees may take legal action, but that is a fool's errand. Employment law is quite exact and there will be pretty much no large paydays, unless someone in a federally protected class can show discrimination. I have watched this process up close and in complete detail, and while Oregon employment law differs from California law, the laws protect employers at least as much as employees.
Quote from: Brian on November 05, 2022, 08:40:43 AM
Apparently California law requires a 60 day notice for a mass layoff, so the 3,700 employees are entitled to 60 days' pay and health benefit coverage.
Oh, to be so rich, you don't care how much cash you hemorrhage thanks to one's unbridled id.
Three Stories About the Death of Twitter (https://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/three-stories-about-the-death-of)
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 05, 2022, 09:59:22 AM
Oh, to be so rich, you don't care how much cash you hemorrhage thanks to one's unbridled id.
To borrow a line about the US federal budget, a billion here, a billion there, soon you'll be talking about real money!
Quote from: JBS on November 05, 2022, 11:14:49 AM
To borrow a line about the US federal budget, a billion here, a billion there, soon you'll be talking about real money!
I just saw a little fight on Twitter. Someone said, "If you think you're smarter than Elon, find $40 billion and buy Twitter back from him." And the reply was, "I know I'm smarter than Elon, because if I had $40 billion, I wouldn't buy Twitter."
Quote from: Brian on November 05, 2022, 11:26:31 AMI just saw a little fight on Twitter.
People dissatisfied with Musk's ownership can also just build their own platform. That "argument" was used to defend people being banned under Dorsey.
Elon's Twitter Apocalypse (https://www.thebulwark.com/podcast-episode/elons-twitter-apocalypse/)
Quote from: Brian on November 04, 2022, 11:07:47 AM
GMG is the nicest, friendliest "social media" place I've ever known.
+ 1
Quote from: Brian on November 05, 2022, 11:26:31 AM
I just saw a little fight on Twitter. Someone said, "If you think you're smarter than Elon, find $40 billion and buy Twitter back from him." And the reply was, "I know I'm smarter than Elon, because if I had $40 billion, I wouldn't buy Twitter."
Haha! Bam! :D
Although personal values very so widely, so often, that we can look from the outside and it looks crazy from our perspective, but it could still be worth it to him, anyways, if he gets whatever it was that he was looking for.
Wow. Just wow:
Welcome to all new users!
Currently a lot of new users are joining the community and the servers try to keep up, this may result in a little slowness in the interface. Normally this is not the case!
If the need comes to upgrade servers @stux will announce this.
Please remember, we are not a big company just a single person. If you wanna help me out in this please checkout the following links:
https://paypal.me/stuxOS (https://paypal.me/stuxOS)
https://patreon.com/mstdn (https://patreon.com/mstdn)
https://ko-fi.com/mstdn (https://ko-fi.com/mstdn)
https://liberapay.com/mstdn (https://liberapay.com/mstdn)
https://opencollective.com/mstdn (https://opencollective.com/mstdn)
https://bunq.me/stuxhost (https://bunq.me/stuxhost)
Emphasis mine.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 06, 2022, 03:04:24 PM
Wow. Just wow:
Welcome to all new users!
Currently a lot of new users are joining the community and the servers try to keep up, this may result in a little slowness in the interface. Normally this is not the case!
If the need comes to upgrade servers @stux will announce this.
Please remember, we are not a big company just a single person. If you wanna help me out in this please checkout the following links:
https://paypal.me/stuxOS (https://paypal.me/stuxOS)
https://patreon.com/mstdn (https://patreon.com/mstdn)
https://ko-fi.com/mstdn (https://ko-fi.com/mstdn)
https://liberapay.com/mstdn (https://liberapay.com/mstdn)
https://opencollective.com/mstdn (https://opencollective.com/mstdn)
https://bunq.me/stuxhost (https://bunq.me/stuxhost)
Emphasis mine.
Karl,
I didn't know anything about Mastodon before you mentioned it. You might be interested in reading this short article. I found it to be quite interesting. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/thousands-have-joined-mastodon-since-twitter-changed-hands-its-founder-has-a-vision-for-democratizing-social-media/ar-AA13N4Mi
PD
The twitter acquisition has certainly been a spectacle, it is interesting to distinguish what is truly unusual about it and what is pretty typical.
Mass layoffs after and acquisition are very common, and when the target has lost money for 8 of the last 10 years, it would be shocking if there were not layoffs. Laying off 50% of the workforce is pretty extreme, and would only be expected of a company that is near to financial collapse. I didn't think twitter was at that point. There is much hew and cry about the suddenness of the layoffs, with people logged out of their work computers and having access to corporate resources cut without warning. Again, this is standard practice. You can't have employees who are laid off or anticipate they will be shortly laid off having access to corporate resources. Disgruntled employees may sabotage, or copy sensitive data. It would be customary to receive notice simultaneously with denial of access.
Mr Musk's tactics and strategy strike me as unclear. There was the narrative that he wanted to fix Twitter and make it an ideal communication platform based on unhindered free speech. If that were the case the bloodbath is not a good opening move. It leaves him with what is probably an inadequate and resentful workforce to implement the changes he wants to make. If he wants to make a profit, there are better ways to make a profit than buying a bloated money-loosing company an creating a public relations disaster which drives advertisers off the platform.
Revisiting the question of whether I will leave Twitter, I probably won't. Why would I sign up for Mastadon to replace twitter when I don't actually use twitter?
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 07, 2022, 03:34:45 AMMr Musk's tactics and strategy strike me as unclear.
Mr Musk makes grandiose statements and undertakes ambitious projects. He has said he'd like to die on Mars and plans to get there using a SpaceX rocket. He built Tesla into a profitable company in an industry with extreme barriers to entry. He runs The Boring Company, which has perhaps the most ambitious mission of all his companies. In several cases, he took big financial risks, putting a lot of his money at stake, to achieve his publicly stated aims. He has been mocked when undertaking some endeavors. He may actually be setting out to do precisely what he said he wanted to do with Twitter. He may very well fail, of course, but his track record since the mid-90s is pretty good. He may succeed, even if his approach seems unorthodox. Given his record and his resources, he may be willing to lose tens of billions of dollars to see his mission succeed.
Similarly, Mark Cuban has publicly stated that he is willing to lose money for years on Cost Plus Drug Company to see it succeed.
I hope both succeed in all their efforts, even if they may fail.
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 07, 2022, 01:31:44 AM
Karl,
I didn't know anything about Mastodon before you mentioned it. You might be interested in reading this short article. I found it to be quite interesting. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/thousands-have-joined-mastodon-since-twitter-changed-hands-its-founder-has-a-vision-for-democratizing-social-media/ar-AA13N4Mi
PD
Interesting indeed, PD, thx!
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 07, 2022, 03:34:45 AM
Mr Musk's tactics and strategy strike me as unclear. There was the narrative that he wanted to fix Twitter and make it an ideal communication platform based on unhindered free speech. If that were the case the bloodbath is not a good opening move. It leaves him with what is probably an inadequate and resentful workforce to implement the changes he wants to make. If he wants to make a profit, there are better ways to make a profit than buying a bloated money-loosing company an creating a public relations disaster which drives advertisers off the platform.
Right?
QuoteRevisiting the question of whether I will leave Twitter, I probably won't. Why would I sign up for Mastadon to replace twitter when I don't actually use twitter?
Non-use of Twitter works, too.
Jennifer Rubin:
The debate among social media users, analysts and pundits is no longer about just how malevolent Twitter under Elon Musk's ownership will become but whether it will rival New Coke in the annals of corporate pratfalls.
On Friday, Musk laid off half the company, reinforcing fears that Twitter's standards would unravel, enforcement would decline, and Twitter would come to resemble a toxic waste dump of election denial, conspiracies, hate speech and pro-Russian propaganda. "The mass layoffs Friday gutted teams devoted to combating election misinformation, adding context to misleading tweets and communicating with journalists, public officials and campaign staff," The Post reported.
The results may be disastrous. When he cut the curation team, The Post said, Musk slashed the jobs of employees assigned "to counter election-related falsehoods, such as claims that vote-by-mail ballots would be discarded, and provide credible information in cases where losing candidates have falsely claimed victory."
Not even God knows what Musk can do to manage Twitter well. As to his "plans," I don't speculate beyond his Chaos Monkey act to make the platform a MAGA-friendly dumpster fire.
Forgive my skepticism over Mastodon, a company named after an extinct animal ;D
There's always reddit.
Quote from: Brian on November 07, 2022, 06:04:12 AM
Forgive my skepticism over Mastodon, a company named after an extinct animal ;D
(* chortle *)
Quote from: Brian on November 07, 2022, 06:04:12 AM
Forgive my skepticism over Mastodon, a company named after an extinct animal ;D
Reminds me of the early days of Twitter, when it was supposed to be a place where you would "tweet" little tidbits about your day to day existence to an audience consisting of your acquaintances. Not what it is become, largely a forum for megalomaniacs, hate mongers, celebrities and corporate marketers.
When I think of it, I have a little list of Facebook friends, but almost all are people I met outside of Facebook (some on GMG). GMG is the only "social media" site where I interact with people I don't otherwise know.
Al que quiere
A n00b's guide to Mastodon (https://jeremylittau.substack.com/p/a-n00bs-guide-to-mastodon)
Let me see if I have this right.
Elon Musk's first email to Twitter Staff described the financial state of the company as "dire."
Elon Musk has told Twitter Staff that a bankruptcy declaration of the company is on the table.
Twitter's chief compliance officer and chief privacy offers have quit (among other high-ranking officers).
The FTC has warned that Twitter is now under investigation and that Elon Musk "is not above the law."
Blue check marks which used to indicate a verified account now indicate that the owner of the account has paid $8. A rash of fake accounts with blue starts have been reported.
So much winning!
From MIT Technology Review:
https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/08/1062886/heres-how-a-twitter-engineer-says-it-will-break-in-the-coming-weeks/
-Bruce
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 11, 2022, 03:05:04 AM
Let me see if I have this right.
Elon Musk's first email to Twitter Staff described the financial state of the company as "dire."
Elon Musk has told Twitter Staff that a bankruptcy declaration of the company is on the table.
Twitter's chief compliance officer and chief privacy offers have quit (among other high-ranking officers).
The FTC has warned that Twitter is now under investigation and that Elon Musk "is not above the law."
Blue check marks which used to indicate a verified account now indicate that the owner of the account has paid $8. A rash of fake accounts with blue starts have been reported.
So much winning!
So worst case, Twitter dies. Or is that best case?
The actual experience of being on Twitter is so fun right now. Chaos is reigning, it's the wild west of comedy.
What a great way for a billionaire to waste his money! :laugh:
https://twitter.com/callmekitto/status/1589407148462964736
"being on Twitter right now is like playing the violin on the titanic except we are also making fun of the iceberg and the iceberg is getting genuinely mad"
Twitter is finally living up to its potential:
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/002/475/469/688)
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,pg_1,q_80,w_800/1b7d5f4a6ea423f0244cf5392bad0abd.jpg)
Twitter appears, develops, runs its course, goes decrepit and eventually dies. Just like myriads of other human endeavours. Nothing to tweet home about, really. ;D
On old (in internet time) report; surely the numbers are much higher five days later: Twitter lost more than 1.3 million users in the week after Elon Musk bought it (https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2022/11/08/mit-report-twitter-elon-musk-users-lost/8300611001/)
This is but part of a much larger trend, sayeth The Atlantic: The Age of Social Media Is Ending. It never should have begun. (https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/11/twitter-facebook-social-media-decline/672074/)
Now I want to join Twitter. I will still avoid FB.
A fake tweet sparked panic at Eli Lilly and may have cost Twitter millions
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 14, 2022, 12:09:38 PM
A fake tweet sparked panic at Eli Lilly and may have cost Twitter millions
There are apparently a lot more ramifications than that. Ran across this interesting and thought-provoking article: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/a-fake-tweet-sparked-panic-at-eli-lilly-and-may-have-cost-twitter-millions/ar-AA145rR8
Fake tweets could also impact people's health (for example).
"To health care companies such as Eli Lilly, the change offered not just a reputational threat but the risk that other fakes could threaten people's well-being. Eli Lilly's Twitter accounts routinely field medical questions and work to correct misinformation about side effects, health issues and long-term care.
Twitter's change, O'Connor said, has shaken not just Eli Lilly but many other companies now worried about the risk of participating in a platform where an account's legitimacy is no longer guaranteed.
"This isn't just about Twitter, this is about patients' health," O'Connor said. What if a public health group was "spoofed and shared information that made people's diabetes worse? Where does it stop? It feels like this is literally just the beginning, and it's only going to get worse."
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on November 14, 2022, 12:58:48 PM
There are apparently a lot more ramifications than that. Ran across this interesting and thought-provoking article: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/a-fake-tweet-sparked-panic-at-eli-lilly-and-may-have-cost-twitter-millions/ar-AA145rR8
Fake tweets could also impact people's health (for example).
"To health care companies such as Eli Lilly, the change offered not just a reputational threat but the risk that other fakes could threaten people's well-being. Eli Lilly's Twitter accounts routinely field medical questions and work to correct misinformation about side effects, health issues and long-term care.
Twitter's change, O'Connor said, has shaken not just Eli Lilly but many other companies now worried about the risk of participating in a platform where an account's legitimacy is no longer guaranteed.
"This isn't just about Twitter, this is about patients' health," O'Connor said. What if a public health group was "spoofed and shared information that made people's diabetes worse? Where does it stop? It feels like this is literally just the beginning, and it's only going to get worse."
PD
Thanks!
Seen on Twitter
Musk said that all decisions about reinstating banned users would be decided by a committee created for that purpose. Then he announced a poll, and shortly afterwards reinstated Trump after a narrow majority of twitter users voted that he should be allowed to return. His account was restored, but Trump says he has no intention of returning to Twitter.
Musk fired half of twitter employees, then after giving the remaining an ultimatum, a third of those remaining resigned. That leaves him with a third of his original staff. I keep reading predictions that the site will collapse, but whenever I briefly visit it seems to be running just fine. The prediction that the site will collapse seem to come mostly from people who were laid off.
Much talk of innovation and new product, but all I see is that a blue check used to mean you were verified, and now it means you paid $8.
I'd be worried if I actually used twitter. If Trump actually resumes activity on Twitter I might be motivated to figure out if I can delete my account.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 20, 2022, 03:37:13 AM
Musk said that all decisions about reinstating banned users would be decided by a committee created for that purpose. Then he announced a poll, and shortly afterwards reinstated Trump after a narrow majority of twitter users voted that he should be allowed to return. His account was restored, but Trump says he has no intention of returning to Twitter.
Musk fired half of twitter employees, then after giving the remaining an ultimatum, a third of those remaining resigned. That leaves him with a third of his original staff. I keep reading predictions that the site will collapse, but whenever I briefly visit it seems to be running just fine. The prediction that the site will collapse seem to come mostly from people who were laid off.
Much talk of innovation and new product, but all I see is that a blue check used to mean you were verified, and now it means you paid $8.
I'd be worried if I actually used twitter. If Trump actually resumes activity on Twitter I might be motivated to figure out if I can delete my account.
C'est vraiment un spectacle-merde
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 20, 2022, 03:37:13 AM
Musk said that all decisions about reinstating banned users would be decided by a committee created for that purpose. Then he announced a poll, and shortly afterwards reinstated Trump after a narrow majority of twitter users voted that he should be allowed to return. His account was restored, but Trump says he has no intention of returning to Twitter.
Musk fired half of twitter employees, then after giving the remaining an ultimatum, a third of those remaining resigned. That leaves him with a third of his original staff. I keep reading predictions that the site will collapse, but whenever I briefly visit it seems to be running just fine. The prediction that the site will collapse seem to come mostly from people who were laid off.
Much talk of innovation and new product, but all I see is that a blue check used to mean you were verified, and now it means you paid $8.
I'd be worried if I actually used twitter. If Trump actually resumes activity on Twitter I might be motivated to figure out if I can delete my account.
I'll be figuring that out today, actually. I think you don't delete yourself, you make your account inactive. We'll see. Many of my music friends have either withdrawn or are laying low. What's the point of hanging around if I don't use it any longer?
8)
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 20, 2022, 03:37:13 AMIf Trump actually resumes activity on Twitter I might be motivated to figure out if I can delete my account.
I do not know if Trump will or will not use Twitter again, nor do I care, but apparently his old tweets have all been restored for public viewing.
Some business press articles I've read indicate that a goodly number of employees who got canned worked on "content moderation". if Musk's plan is to focus on unfettered free speech, content moderators are unneeded, unless advertisers balk at unfettered free speech over the long term. They very well may, so Musk may have to hire content moderators to appease corporate power, which already exerts enormous power over public discourse. Many vocal Twitter users appear to fully approve of such corporate control.
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 20, 2022, 06:09:08 AM
I'll be figuring that out today, actually. I think you don't delete yourself, you make your account inactive. We'll see. Many of my music friends have either withdrawn or are laying low. What's the point of hanging around if I don't use it any longer?
8)
Several have gone to Mastodon.
Following them on Mastodon takes more effort if you are on a Mastodon server that is not "federated" with the server they are on. There doesn't seem to be a way of figuring that out before you set up there.
It's easy to delete your Twitter account, and you have 30 days to change your mind.
I intend to stay on Twitter until/unless it gets unuseable, but I have set up an account on Mastodon.
Reddit has a classical music subreddit, so I set myself up there but have yet to give it any sort of inspection.
I don't stay on Twitter because of its policies on free speech or Trump or whatever, or any of its features or lack thereof. I stay there because I have internet friends/acquaintances who use the site. If they leave, I'll probably leave too. (Assuming the website does not simply disappear in a puff of smoke due to losing too many staff to keep the servers online.)
I note that unrestricted free speech on social media websites has directly caused at least one unequivocal genocide and dozens of mass shootings, while corporate-funded content moderation on social media websites has directly acted to keep repressive regimes in power (if they happen to be allied to the US government) by giving them a means to identify, capture and execute dissenters and legitimising their wars of aggression. The argument over which of those two positions is preferable sets up a false dichotomy made all the more egregious by the obviousness of the morally correct position (i.e., break up the social media companies and seize their assets).
Quote from: amw on November 20, 2022, 07:40:43 PM
I note that unrestricted free speech on social media websites has directly caused at least one unequivocal genocide
What genocide do you mean?
Quote from: Florestan on November 20, 2022, 11:15:13 PM
What genocide do you mean?
Google "social media Rohingya genocide".
Quote from: Daverz on November 20, 2022, 11:21:42 PM
Google "social media Rohingya genocide".
Thanks. I wasn't aware of the role FB played in that.
Social media causes genocide. The final solution is government control of speech on social media platforms.
Quote from: Todd on November 21, 2022, 04:39:23 AM
Social media causes genocide. The final solution is government control of speech on social media platforms.
I do not think that speech itself should be controlled on social media. I think there should be much stricter controls one what social media companies do with your speech on their platforms. I think it should be illegal for social media companies to compile detailed information on a persons behavior on their platform (what they post, what links they click on) and sell this information without explicit permission. And by explicit, I mean to the extent that when you click on a story with headline "Nancy Pelosi's husband was actually attacked by a gay prostitute who he had hired that night" a dialog would pop up saying, "Do you wish to share the fact that you viewed this link with the RNC, Breitbart News, the Russian Intelligence Service, Steve Bannon, and Crackerbarrel?" I think it should be illegal for social media platforms to choose to push content to your feed based on people paying for access to your feed. They should be constrained to show content based on who you follow, not based on who wants you to follow them. I do not claim that such regulations would be easy, or even possible, to implement.
Quote from: JBS on November 20, 2022, 05:17:21 PM
Several have gone to Mastodon.
Following them on Mastodon takes more effort if you are on a Mastodon server that is not "federated" with the server they are on. There doesn't seem to be a way of figuring that out before you set up there.
It's easy to delete your Twitter account, and you have 30 days to change your mind.
I intend to stay on Twitter until/unless it gets unuseable, but I have set up an account on Mastodon.
Reddit has a classical music subreddit, so I set myself up there but have yet to give it any sort of inspection.
Thanks for the info, I'll look into that. Also have heard about a new effort by the founder of Twitter but I don't know whether it is real or dreamware so far. 🤠😕
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 21, 2022, 05:09:24 AM
I do not think that speech itself should be controlled on social media. I think there should be much stricter controls one what social media companies do with your speech on their platforms. I think it should be illegal for social media companies to compile detailed information on a persons behavior on their platform (what they post, what links they click on) and sell this information without explicit permission. And by explicit, I mean to the extent that when you click on a story with headline "Nancy Pelosi's husband was actually attacked by a gay prostitute who he had hired that night" a dialog would pop up saying, "Do you wish to share the fact that you viewed this link with the RNC, Breitbart News, the Russian Intelligence Service, Steve Bannon, and Crackerbarrel?" I think it should be illegal for social media platforms to choose to push content to your feed based on people paying for access to your feed. They should be constrained to show content based on who you follow, not based on who wants you to follow them. I do not claim that such regulations would be easy, or even possible, to implement.
There are several different strands going on now. First, while I am certainly no expert on the Rohingya genocide (and I am certain no one else on GMG is either), the notion that Facebook or any other social media platform caused the genocide or is anything other than an ancillary tool in the horror contradicts the little I have read on the topic written by experts. The military, which is primarily Burmese, is driving the genocide, and like other military governments around the world from time to time, they use all manner of propaganda tools to whip the public into a frenzy. (Fortunately, Americans and Europeans are so sophisticated and well-educated that established propaganda tools and techniques stretching back to WWI can never have an effect on them.)
Second, legislation would be needed to prevent the sale of personal information, which is currently signed away in terms of service. It is very difficult to envision how such legislation could pass given the business models used by social media companies, where sale of personal data is a major revenue source. Remember that old adage (in the current age), if something is free, you're the product. Perhaps a better model would be to establish paid social media, where contractual terms expressly forbid sale with explicit legal remedies and use of consumer-friendly jurisdictions selected for arbitration or litigation. I do not know how successful a paid model would be; consumers want everything for free.
Third, your suggestion of using some type of pop-ups or other notifications to warn of sale of information, while perhaps appealing on the surface, would probably not be particularly meaningful. For instance, people know smoking is bad for them, cigarette packs come with explicit written warnings, and in some countries explicit images are used as well, yet that all fades into the background for smokers. Pop-ups already appear all over online, and at least some people - and I suggest almost all people - just click right on through. Tabloid stories are popular and will remain so. Forever.
'It's over': Twitter France's head quits amid layoffs (https://www.reuters.com/technology/its-over-twitter-frances-head-quits-amid-layoffs-2022-11-21/#:~:text=PARIS%2C%20Nov%2021%20(Reuters),job%20cuts%20at%20the%20company.)
Apparently, it's not over:
Musk says granting 'amnesty' to suspended Twitter accounts (https://apnews.com/article/elon-musk-technology-donald-trump-business-misinformation-c60bc41229339eaec5008188fa6d057c)
Musk appears to be serious about his commitment to actual free speech, not the kind of heavily censored speech fashionable among the self-appointed intelligentsia. Who knows how long Twitter will last?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FiXFXrSWYAALeII.png)
Quote from: JBS on November 20, 2022, 05:17:21 PMReddit has a classical music subreddit, so I set myself up there but have yet to give it any sort of inspection.
I checked out that subreddit awhile back but it seemed to me to be much more performing-centric as opposed to collecting/recording focused like this community.
Anyway Elon Musk wants to buy Reddit next. Of course I don't know how he will turn Twitter around to profitable if he mass fires essential staff.
Quote from: DavidW on November 25, 2022, 02:26:20 PMAnyway Elon Musk wants to buy Reddit next. Of course I don't know how he will turn Twitter around to profitable if he mass fires essential staff.
Oh boy! I guess he wants to own everything, because less is never enough...
I am really tired of the World as it is in 2022. It feels like the craziest people call all the shots. Sane people have been marginalized in the the World where only the most lunatic voices are heard.
I deleted my Twitter account yesterday. Life is too short to bother taking part in every 21st century clusterfuck that comes down the road. Pity, I largely enjoyed the time I spent there.
🤠
I've seen a number of mutual followers on Twitter suspended over the last few days as they get mass reported by far-right trolls on false charges of "promoting violence" or similar (the Twitter algorithm is known for automatically suspending any account that is frequently reported for rules violations; such suspensions might previously have been reversed by the content moderation team, but that entire team has apparently been fired).
I have also, in the wake of a mass shooting at a LGBTQ club in the USA this month, noticed a significant uptick in people on the "mainstream right" claiming the killer was justified, that "gender ideology" and "wokeness" are a form of violence against which mass murder is justifiable as "self-defense", and promising that every LGBTQ person and their supporters will meet the same fate. Such people were never uncommon, but now Mr. Musk himself is replying to some of the more notorious trolls (such as LibsofTikTok) approvingly and with claims that he is trying to "prevent the West from committing suicide" in response to posts about how, e.g., the existence of drag queens promotes pedophilia, or it is not possible to be transgender, etc. These people feel that they were previously "unfairly censored" (even though most were never banned from the site and had thousands or millions of followers) and are now emboldened to push their agenda on others.
I don't see this as a reason to leave the site (it's easy to block such people) but it is definitely becoming a chore to log in. Social media plays no role whatsoever in genocide of course. If it just so happens to cause hundreds of thousands of heavily armed and easily suggestible people to believe that they must commit mass shootings of LGBTQ people to protect their children, and incidentally giving them the names, addresses and times at which "someone should do something", that is just those people exercising their free speech and no steps can be taken to stop them. Certainly there have been no similar periods in US history where a politically motivated press spread false accusations of sexual crimes against a reviled minority over decades, indirectly encouraging vigilante killings and riots as well as a set of repressive laws disenfranchising that minority, and if that had happened, well, there's absolutely no way it could have been prevented.
Apparently some of those accounts were suspended immediately after Andy Ngo directly complained about them to Musk.
Quote from: amw on November 26, 2022, 07:08:55 AMand incidentally giving them the names, addresses and times at which "someone should do something"
I am pretty close to a free speech absolutist, but doxxing can be viewed as criminal behavior, an online form of menacing, which is a misdemeanor in many jurisdictions, and along with targeted threats (against specific people) should result in bans online. These are the only forms of online activity that should result in bans. Both behaviors are very common across the political spectrum. Ask SCOTUS justices.
Quote from: amw on November 26, 2022, 07:08:55 AMCertainly there have been no similar periods in US history where a politically motivated press spread false accusations of sexual crimes against a reviled minority over decades, indirectly encouraging vigilante killings and riots as well as a set of repressive laws disenfranchising that minority, and if that had happened, well, there's absolutely no way it could have been prevented.
The contemporary world is special, unique, and unprecedented in every way.
Quote from: Todd on November 26, 2022, 07:27:14 AMI am pretty close to a free speech absolutist, but doxxing can be viewed as criminal behavior, an online form of menacing, which is a misdemeanor in many jurisdictions, and along with targeted threats (against specific people) should result in bans online. These are the only forms of online activity that should result in bans. Both behaviors are very common across the political spectrum. Ask SCOTUS justices.
The contemporary world is special, unique, and unprecedented in every way.
I believe amw was referring to posting copies of advertising or summarizing publicly advertised information about planned events, not individual's private information.
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on November 26, 2022, 05:54:01 AMI deleted my Twitter account yesterday. Life is too short to bother taking part in every 21st century clusterfuck that comes down the road. Pity, I largely enjoyed the time I spent there.
🤠
C'est vraiment dommage!
Quote from: JBS on November 26, 2022, 08:08:16 AMI believe amw was referring to posting copies of advertising or summarizing publicly advertised information about planned events, not individual's private information.
Depending on language used, such activity could easily and lawfully be construed as either menacing or issuing a threat. Inclusion of dates, times, and places is what makes the difference. It turns vague unpleasantries into imminent dangers. Such speech can be suppressed based on statute and case law. Lots of stuff should be done about lots of things. Specificity is needed for it to be something other than griping.
Quote from: Todd on November 26, 2022, 07:27:14 AMI am pretty close to a free speech absolutist
Free speech is great. Thoughtful speech is greater. ;D
Quote from: Florestan on November 26, 2022, 09:31:20 AMFree speech is great. Thoughtful speech is greater. ;D
Perhaps.
Quote from: Florestan on November 26, 2022, 09:31:20 AMFree speech is great. Thoughtful speech is greater. ;D
Nice!
Quote from: Todd on November 26, 2022, 09:47:11 AMPerhaps.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 26, 2022, 10:45:20 AMNice!
I confess I paraphrased
Kierkegaard's dictum:
People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.
Quote from: Florestan on November 26, 2022, 11:02:41 AMI confess I paraphrased Kierkegaard's dictum: People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.
I responded to the words you wrote. Thoughtful speech is not always "greater". An example from Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman from 1998:
Quote from: Paul KrugmanThe growth of the Internet will slow drastically, as the flaw in 'Metcalfe's law'—which states that the number of potential connections in a network is proportional to the square of the number of participants—becomes apparent: most people have nothing to say to each other! By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's.
Thoughtful speech may be as wrong and/or stupid as thoughtless speech.
Quote from: Todd on November 26, 2022, 11:22:06 AMThoughtful speech may be as wrong and/or stupid as thoughtless speech.
Absolutely. And winning a Nobel Prize is no warranty for reasonable speech. Einstein was a great fan of socialism.
Quote from: Florestan on November 26, 2022, 12:06:59 PMAnd winning a Nobel Prize is no warranty for reasonable speech.
It's no guarantee or warranty of anything. Robert Merton won a Nobel Prize in Economics and helped almost bring down the global financial system in the 90s. Aung San Suu Kyi won a Nobel Peace Prize and did nothing to stop genocide in Myanmar (though she couldn't really do anything). Henry Kissinger and Yasser Arafat both won, um, Peace Prizes. Nobel Prizes are the ultimate in Western ironic self-regard, particularly given the sources of wealth of the namesake family.
Quote from: Todd on November 26, 2022, 12:22:02 PMIt's no guarantee or warranty of anything. Robert Merton won a Nobel Prize in Economics and helped almost bring down the global financial system in the 90s. Aung San Suu Kyi won a Nobel Peace Prize and did nothing to stop genocide in Myanmar (though she couldn't really do anything). Henry Kissinger and Yasser Arafat both won, um, Peace Prizes. Nobel Prizes are the ultimate in Western ironic self-regard, particularly given the sources of wealth of the namesake family.
Agreed, like totally.
Quote from: Todd on November 26, 2022, 11:22:06 AMI responded to the words you wrote. Thoughtful speech is not always "greater". An example from Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman from 1998:
Thoughtful speech may be as wrong and/or stupid as thoughtless speech.
Krugman was more correct than not.
A substantial amount of Internet conversation is not people talking to each other.
It's people talking at each other.
Quote from: JBS on November 26, 2022, 07:24:37 PMKrugman was more correct than not.
A substantial amount of Internet conversation is not people talking to each other.
It's people talking at each other.
Why, one sees it on this very thread 8)
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 26, 2022, 07:34:18 PMWhy, one sees it on this very thread 8)
Perhaps. But I would suggest GMG has a fairly high percentage of "talking to" compared to much of the rest of the Internet.
Quote from: JBS on November 26, 2022, 07:40:02 PMPerhaps. But I would suggest GMG has a fairly high percentage of "talking to" compared to much of the rest of the Internet.
Strongly agreed, sir!
Quote from: Todd on November 26, 2022, 12:22:02 PMIt's no guarantee or warranty of anything. Robert Merton won a Nobel Prize in Economics and helped almost bring down the global financial system in the 90s. Aung San Suu Kyi won a Nobel Peace Prize and did nothing to stop genocide in Myanmar (though she couldn't really do anything). Henry Kissinger and Yasser Arafat both won, um, Peace Prizes. Nobel Prizes are the ultimate in Western ironic self-regard, particularly given the sources of wealth of the namesake family.
Makes it seem like a great choice to give Obama a Nobel Peace prize for doing nothing in particular. :)
Quote from: Todd on November 26, 2022, 11:22:06 AMI responded to the words you wrote. Thoughtful speech is not always "greater". An example from Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman from 1998:
Quote from: Paul KrugmanThe growth of the Internet will slow drastically, as the flaw in 'Metcalfe's law'—which states that the number of potential connections in a network is proportional to the square of the number of participants—becomes apparent: most people have nothing to say to each other! By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's.
QuoteThoughtful speech may be as wrong and/or stupid as thoughtless speech.
The fax machine had a great impact on the economy. And economists have been observing that the productivity bump and general economic transformation from the internet is nowhere near as transformative as previous technology advances were, such as electricity.
For instance:
https://hbr.org/2015/03/the-internet-has-been-a-colossal-economic-disappointment
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 26, 2022, 07:58:17 PMThe fax machine had a great impact on the economy.
It did, though it took about 50-60 years from its initial invention to realize its economic potential. That written, the internet has had a greater, measurable impact on the economy as a whole in terms of jobs, supply chain reorganization to meet consumer demand, and so on.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on November 26, 2022, 07:58:17 PMAnd economists have been observing that the productivity bump and general economic transformation from the internet is nowhere near as transformative as previous technology advances were, such as electricity.
Indeed they have, and none so comprehensively as Robert Gordon, who points out the step-wise improvements in living standards and economic growth brought by technological innovations developed between roughly the end of the Civil War and WWII have not been matched by innovations since. The medical arena is the conspicuous exception in this regard. We live in an age of marginal refinement of and not fundamental improvement in standards of living, at least in the developed world.
Paul Krugman does not even try to defend his 1998 assertion.
Quote from: JBS on November 26, 2022, 07:24:37 PMKrugman was more correct than not.
Quote from: Paul KrugmanBut the main point is that I don't claim any special expertise in technology -- I almost never make technological forecasts, and the only reason there was stuff like that in the 98 piece was because the assignment required that I do that sort of thing.
From the Gray Lady:
Hate Speech's Rise on Twitter Is Unprecedented, Researchers Find
Problematic content and formerly barred accounts have increased sharply in the short time since Elon Musk took over, researchers said. (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/technology/twitter-hate-speech.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20221202&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=117609972&segment_id=114790&user_id=d7164096d33ce50132acba6c685611eb)
Quote from: Sheera Frenkel and Kate Conger"Elon Musk sent up the Bat Signal to every kind of racist, misogynist and homophobe that Twitter was open for business," said Imran Ahmed, the chief executive of the Center for Countering Digital Hate. "They have reacted accordingly."...
Changes in Twitter's content not only have societal implications but also affect the company's bottom line...
But this time was different...
I know no one is ever supposed to question the purity of the ADL, or to even imply that it has a political agenda, so I will not, and it looks like the Center for Countering Digital Hate - a new special interest non-profit in my experience - has joined it. I'm sure the Center does objective yeoman's work countering digital hate.
The propagandistic nature of press coverage of Twitter is simultaneously humorous and disturbing to witness. (Mostly humorous.) The extent of potential "societal implications" boggles the mind. Like, literally, man.
At least Ye was banned.
Another question is WHY there is so much hate speech and why are so many people so angry.This is only one characteristic of a society in a downward spiral, and a civilization becoming more uncivilized by the minute. And I think a major factor is a shift---from the transmission of basic values from one generation to another--to a failure to do so.
I almost deleted this but I'll let it stand.
Quote from: Dave B on December 02, 2022, 06:33:37 AMAnother question is WHY there is so much hate speech and why are so many people so angry.This is only one characteristic of a society in a downward spiral, and a civilization becoming more uncivilized by the minute. And I think a major factor is a shift---from the transmission of basic values from one generation to another--to a failure to do so.
When were people not angry and when was US society (or any society) more civilized? There is an observable tendency to romanticize the past, whitewashing its violence and anger and hate, and to denigrate the here and now as somehow being very much worse. Contemporary communications technology amplifies and accelerates communication and dissemination of messages, but everything we see today has literally always been there. Some of what we see today online used to be codified in law and enforced in practice, often brutally and more than occasionally lethally.
Not really on topic, but here's a twitter thread I just saw and am choosing to quote in full:
"Thread time. Here's the thing about @Tesla. It's not a car company. Tesla is a company that has to make cars in order to sell its real product: Emissions Credits.
Let me explain. Back in 2012, the EPA put out new, strident emissions standards for new vehicles fleetwide. 1/
Carmakers here in the US who wanted to either build or sell new cars in US soil needed their fleets of mostly ICE vehicles to meet these new standards. Most couldn't, because their engines weren't nearly efficient enough. Some like Toyota and Honda were in better shape... 2/
...because they didn't sell huge SUVs and trucks as their core product line, and were already pushing hard into Hybrid vehicles, if not pure electrics just yet.
Manufacturers who exceeded their fleetwide emissions targets were given "credits" which they could either bank... 3/
...or sell on the open market.
Manufacturers who didn't meet their emissions targets would need to buy these credits in order to remain compliant with the new EPA standards.
Enter Tesla.
Being the only largish all-electric auto manufacturer, Tesla's fleet is emissions free. 4/
So Tesla doesn't ever need to worry about banking their carbon credits to spend in future years if emissions standards become even more strident again. They can take all of the credits they generate and sell 100% of them on the open market to other builders. 5/
And they do. In Q1 of last year, Tesla's entire profit came from selling half a billion dollars of carbon credits to other carmakers.
Which hey, good for them, but in reality it means driving and owning a Tesla hasn't actually reduced global emissions at all. 6/
Because Tesla is basically selling indulgences to other manufacturers so they can continue building and selling fleets of ICE vehicles that don't meet standards, delaying the day the rest of the industry commits to investing in decarbonization. 7/
Stellantis alone, (the European parent company of Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, and Ram) has bought more than $2.5 billion in carbon credits from Tesla. All those gas guzzling SUVs, trucks, and 800hp musclecars? Thank a Tesla buyer. They literally couldn't exist otherwise. 8/
This is why I say Tesla isn't a car company.
When you buy a Tesla, you're not the only, or even the primary customer. Actual car companies are. Which would help explain why Teslas are notorious for poor build quality. Their fit and finish is abysmal, and there's so little... 9/
...attention or resources paid to service infrastructure when things do go wrong (which is often) that @GM has been quietly servicing and repairing more than 10,000 Teslas at their own service centers over the last year.
You, the buyer, simply aren't a priority for Tesla. 10/10
So hey, buy a car that hasn't actually helped the environment, might catch fire, can't open the rear doors if it does, and funds a cut-rate Bond villain trying to turn Twitter into a Nazi toilet if you want.
Just know what it is you're actually buying. 11/11
Extra innings...
It's entirely possible the plan in Elon's mind was to use the emissions credits to get the legacy manufacturers to pay him for their own extinction. I assume he guessed Tesla would ramp up EV production quickly enough to build an insurmountable lead. 12/
He wanted to corner the EV market and own the future of cars, blocking out the dinosaurs. The ultimate disruption.
But... he couldn't pull it off. His early lead never grew large enough due to production delays and constraints. Now, better EVs are coming from everywhere. 13/
He had one last advantage to play, which was the Tesla charging network. This advantage remains, but he lobbied hard to get the government to fund a nationwide charging network based on Tesla's proprietary plugs and chargers.
Biden refused in favor of universal designs. 14/
Now legacy manufacturers are drastically ramping up newer, better, cheaper EVs in more types and models than Tesla offers, on platforms that aren't already a decade old. Those manufacturers will rely less and less on buying Tesla's credits to remain compliant. Death spiral. 15/15 "
(Patrick S, Tomlinson)
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 04, 2022, 11:08:47 PMWhich hey, good for them, but in reality it means driving and owning a Tesla hasn't actually reduced global emissions at all. 6/
Because Tesla is basically selling indulgences to other manufacturers so they can continue building and selling fleets of ICE vehicles that don't meet standards, delaying the day the rest of the industry commits to investing in decarbonization.
The whole thread is of keen interest, indeed.
Much as criticizing Elon Musk is fun, I don't think that it fair to say that Tesla is making no impact. At the very least Tesla has created the perception in the public that electric vehicles are fun and desirable, not just dull, impractical vehicles that tree huggers tolerate to assuage their consciences. It has prepared the market for other companies to follow (and they have). The fact that other car companies are buying carbon credits from Tesla means that other car companies are effectively subsidizing the development and adoption of electric vehicle technology. The environmental law has given them an incentive to do this.
There are other considerations. If you drive a Tesla in California you are largely running your car on hydroelectric and wind power. If you drive a Tesla in Texas you are effectively running your car on natural gas and coal, so the reduction in tailpipe emissions is partly offset by more emissions from electric power generation.
Another remarkable thing is that Musk now seems to be supporting Republicans. Does he think those carbon credits would continue to be available if Republicans had their way?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/12/03/elon-musk-and-matt-taibbi-release-twitter-docs-hunter-biden-tapes/10826408002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/12/03/elon-musk-and-matt-taibbi-release-twitter-docs-hunter-biden-tapes/10826408002/)
Elon Musk's 'Twitter files': Emails reveal internal struggle on handling of Hunter Biden laptop
"... According to Taibbi, Twitter blocked tweets from former Trump administration officials publicizing the article prompting them to contact and admonish the company for its actions. Meanwhile, members of Biden's campaign reported specific tweets to Twitter and requested they be blocked..."
It was such a relief to see trump lose. However, did Twitter play dirty in the run up and was that fair? Twitter can do whatever it wants, of course. It can even lie about it, I suppose. I don't know that there's any law against that, although there might be.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on December 05, 2022, 06:10:24 AMAnother remarkable thing is that Musk now seems to be supporting Republicans. Does he think those carbon credits would continue to be available if Republicans had their way?
He could be targeting continued subsidies for EVs, or expanded government contracts for his other ventures, or a continuation of credits as a quid pro quo of sorts (which makes it seem as though US politics is corrupt, which everyone knows is not true in any way). Or maybe he's just a Republican.
Quote from: milk on December 05, 2022, 01:28:25 PMhttps://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/12/03/elon-musk-and-matt-taibbi-release-twitter-docs-hunter-biden-tapes/10826408002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/12/03/elon-musk-and-matt-taibbi-release-twitter-docs-hunter-biden-tapes/10826408002/)
Elon Musk's 'Twitter files': Emails reveal internal struggle on handling of Hunter Biden laptop
"... According to Taibbi, Twitter blocked tweets from former Trump administration officials publicizing the article prompting them to contact and admonish the company for its actions. Meanwhile, members of Biden's campaign reported specific tweets to Twitter and requested they be blocked..."
Pfft, the laptop is Russian disinformation. Everyone knows that.
Quote from: milk on December 05, 2022, 01:32:12 PMIt was such a relief to see trump lose. However, did Twitter play dirty in the run up and was that fair? Twitter can do whatever it wants, of course. It can even lie about it, I suppose. I don't know that there's any law against that, although there might be.
Please read:
No, You Do Not Have a Constitutional Right to Post Hunter Biden's Dick Pic on Twitter
Elon Musk and Matt Taibbi's First Amendment follies. (https://www.thebulwark.com/no-you-do-not-have-a-constitutional-right-to-post-hunter-bidens-dick-pic-on-twitter/)
Quote from: milk on December 05, 2022, 01:32:12 PMIt was such a relief to see trump lose. However, did Twitter play dirty in the run up and was that fair? Twitter can do whatever it wants, of course. It can even lie about it, I suppose. I don't know that there's any law against that, although there might be.
Three things should be noted:
The Biden campaign was requesting removal of tweets which violated Twitter's policies (showing pictures of Hunter's organ without his consent). In other words doing what anyone who "reports a tweet" does. (The main difference: Twitter didn't reply a week later that the tweet broke no rules.)
Blocking the story about the laptop was done by Twitter on its own initiative, and was reversed the next day.
Taibbi mentions that members of Trump's White House staff also requested various tweets be removed, and their requests acceded to. But he seems to think those requests are not important, since he gives no other information about them
Quote from: JBS on December 05, 2022, 06:23:16 PMThree things should be noted:
The Biden campaign was requesting removal of tweets which violated Twitter's policies (showing pictures of Hunter's organ without his consent). In other words doing what anyone who "reports a tweet" does. (The main difference: Twitter didn't reply a week later that the tweet broke no rules.)
Blocking the story about the laptop was done by Twitter on its own initiative, and was reversed the next day.
Taibbi mentions that members of Trump's White House staff also requested various tweets be removed, and their requests acceded to. But he seems to think those requests are not important, since he gives no other information about them
I'm still reading and I'm skeptical that this is going to be the tag on this story. You're right that Musk has the wrong takeaway but the article seems less fair to Taibbi's reporting itself. I'll post more what I think as I read more about it but I definitely don't trust Musk any more than I trust pre-Musk Twitter execs or Hunter Biden. Musk is in deep with China. I'll read more and see what I think of this story.
ETA: * "The Tulsi Gabbard of Substack"
Yes, I see what this person wants to emphasize. 1. That it's "old news" that Twitter "throttled" the story. Oh! Well, the bitchy language of this article really helps me see that because we already knew Twitter messed this up, the real story is how Taibbi is such a dork compared Tim Miller. It's so weird to me how a Republican like Tim Miller, former Jen Bush aid, gets to slam Matt Taibbi - a person who literally wrote the book about how the fat cats robbed the country the last time the U.S. hit the economic gutter. But I know, it's neither here nor there when it comes to this story. Either Twitter had a bias or didn't. Again, I'll have to read more. Again, I'm glad the laptop story didn't re-elect trump but not glad that three or four big companies basically decide what gets put out there before an election. Oh and #2 was what? That Musk is wrong that this is about the first amendment. Yeah, this is a total red herring that I wish I'd never have to hear about again. Twitter, Facebook, instagram, etc, they have a perfect right under American law to tell you what you can and can't say. There probably are restrictions on what they can do in terms of elections and taking sides but I think this is more about biases anyway and they probably have a right to their biases whatever they are. These are global companies anyway. Do their/should their interests really align with those of the American public.
Wasn't McLuhan so right? Who cares about elections anyway? We already behave differently, or at least the kids do. These drone wars and drone elections are just the beginning.
So, my point was that big companies like Twitter can choose to "throttle" anything they want to, whether or not there are electoral consequences. Another thing I notice right away is how many left wing news outlets are on the same narrative about Taibbi and Twitter and there's another really annoying lie at the center of this (and I'll just say again that I've never voted for a Republican in my life BTW): that Taibbi taking all these docs from the dreaded NAZI Musk is some sort of nefarious thing because Musk has an obvious political axe to grind. Well every one of these people has done the same thing and many in a less honest way.
I have no idea what you mean by any of that.
Could you please unpack those three confusing sentences.
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 06, 2022, 04:04:11 AMI have no idea what you mean by any of that.
Could you please unpack those three confusing sentences.
There's a big kerfuffle now about twitter and Matt Taibbi being fed documents by Elon Musk about how Twitter dealt with the Hunter Biden laptop story right before the last election. I should confess that I'm not on twitter and I'm personally happy Trump lost that election. There are numerous voices, the NYTimes, MSNBC, the BULWARK article linked above, and many more on the left, all accusing Taibbi of being quite terrible for running with what they consider to be a non-story about how twitter dealt with the Hunter Biden laptop story in the runup to the 2016 election. Incidentally, there've been unhinged rightwing reactions to this same story. This is all very team politics. At the very least, the way twitter dealt with the Hunter Biden (NYPost) story was incompetent and it's worth looking into how media-giants that have huge impacts on politics make these decisions. All of the journalists, every single one, criticizing Taibbi for working with information given to him by someone (Musk) with an agenda have themselves obtained information from politicians, political staff and officials with agendas. They've all done it and added their own contexts, spin, commentary, reporting to it. To me, the real issue, or the most important issue these days, is how we get information and how a handful of private companies shape what we know. Questions about the first amendment aren't very relevant really. These ARE private companies. Some may say it's always been this way. However, I think social media is a different animal and I think understanding how these companies decide what and how information gets disseminated is in the public interest - at the very least. The team politics being played over these stories make it seem like the issue is something else. I'm saying I think there's a problem here that goes beyond left/right but you wouldn't know it from reading the news lately.
Quote from: JBS on December 05, 2022, 06:23:16 PMThe Biden campaign was requesting removal of tweets which violated Twitter's policies (showing pictures of Hunter's organ without his consent). In other words doing what anyone who "reports a tweet" does.
The immediate question here is whether the White House should act as anyone else who reports a tweet, or anything else. That people reflexively defend such actions from such a source is troubling.
Quote from: milk on December 06, 2022, 03:25:56 AMSo, my point was that big companies like Twitter can choose to "throttle" anything they want to, whether or not there are electoral consequences.
In general, they can, but such behavior should be troubling in a purportedly open society, especially if said company supposedly fosters communication. Twitter most certainly was not about free and open communication. It was ideologically curated. Maybe that changes.
As this forum now demonstrates, many people favor speech suppression. Fortunately, there are other outlets online that can and will publish such information.
Quote from: Todd on December 06, 2022, 05:30:15 AMIn general, they can, but such behavior should be troubling in a purportedly open society, especially if said company supposedly fosters communication. Twitter most certainly was not about free and open communication. It was ideologically curated. Maybe that changes.
As this forum now demonstrates, many people favor speech suppression. Fortunately, there are other outlets online that can and will publish such information.
right. Free speech used to be a liberal principle and, once upon a time, liberals would have argued that a communication platform should err on the side of free speech. Ro Khanna is (the?)one democratic congressman who actually told Twitter as much at the time.
Quote from: milk on December 06, 2022, 05:50:57 AMright. Free speech used to be a liberal principle and, once upon a time, liberals would have argued that a communication platform should err on the side of free speech. Ro Khanna is (the?)one democratic congressman who actually told Twitter as much at the time.
The ACLU used to defend free speech. It even defended Nazis (immortalized for posterity in
The Blues Brothers). The ACLU no longer defends free speech. Ira Glasser now strongly criticizes the ACLU for its ideological rather than principled stand on speech.
The inversion of ideological defense of speech began around 2010 and intensified in 2015. Ultimately, in the US, both parties have and will support suppression of different forms of speech. Corporations dependent on government contracts or eager to defend their ill-gotten monopoly or oligopoly rents will comply with requested speech restrictions. There is a name for the general condition where the state and corporate interests coincide and they act in unison.
Quote from: Todd on December 06, 2022, 05:25:04 AMThe immediate question here is whether the White House should act as anyone else who reports a tweet, or anything else. That people reflexively defend such actions from such a source is troubling.
In 2020 the Biden campaign was not the White House, which at that time was occupied by a man named Trump, whose staff also reported tweets--but Taibbi has (at least not yet) seen fit to give any details about those incidents.
Quote from: JBS on December 06, 2022, 10:42:36 AMIn 2020 the Biden campaign was not the White House, which at that time was occupied by a man named Trump, whose staff also reported tweets--but Taibbi has (at least not yet) seen fit to give any details about those incidents.
My bad. Let me reword it:
The immediate question here is whether the White House, a presidential campaign, any elected official, any campaign for any public office, or any appointed office holder should act as anyone else who reports a tweet, or anything else. That people reflexively defend such actions from such sources is troubling.
Quote from: milk on December 06, 2022, 05:23:51 AMThere's a big kerfuffle now about twitter and Matt Taibbi being fed documents by Elon Musk about how Twitter dealt with the Hunter Biden laptop story right before the last election. I should confess that I'm not on twitter and I'm personally happy Trump lost that election. There are numerous voices, the NYTimes, MSNBC, the BULWARK article linked above, and many more on the left, all accusing Taibbi of being quite terrible for running with what they consider to be a non-story about how twitter dealt with the Hunter Biden laptop story in the runup to the 2016 election. Incidentally, there've been unhinged rightwing reactions to this same story. This is all very team politics. At the very least, the way twitter dealt with the Hunter Biden (NYPost) story was incompetent and it's worth looking into how media-giants that have huge impacts on politics make these decisions. All of the journalists, every single one, criticizing Taibbi for working with information given to him by someone (Musk) with an agenda have themselves obtained information from politicians, political staff and officials with agendas. They've all done it and added their own contexts, spin, commentary, reporting to it. To me, the real issue, or the most important issue these days, is how we get information and how a handful of private companies shape what we know. Questions about the first amendment aren't very relevant really. These ARE private companies. Some may say it's always been this way. However, I think social media is a different animal and I think understanding how these companies decide what and how information gets disseminated is in the public interest - at the very least. The team politics being played over these stories make it seem like the issue is something else. I'm saying I think there's a problem here that goes beyond left/right but you wouldn't know it from reading the news lately.
Okay, thanks. Those are all legitimate concerns in the abstract.
But once again you, and Todd, have avoided the fact that we are talking here about dick picks, and dick picks of someone who isn't even a politician.
Is revenge porn, even political revenge porn, a free speech issue? I think you could both find worthier examples of political bias in the media to be shining a light on
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 06, 2022, 12:27:39 PMOkay, thanks. Those are all legitimate concerns in the abstract.
But once again you, and Todd, have avoided the fact that we are talking here about dick picks, and dick picks of someone who isn't even a politician.
Is revenge porn, even political revenge porn, a free speech issue? I think you could both find worthier examples of political bias in the media to be shining a light on
no. It's about the Post story. Dem. Rep. Ro Khanna did not scold Twitter about dick pics. ETA Khanna was right, actually, to worry that a backlash could (and did?) come in the other direction too. By fiddling with the initial Post story, Twitter ignited (or added to) a shit-show that we are stuck with to this day. Instead of defending Twitter, people should be more critical of these companies and more interested in what goes on under their proverbial hoods. Meanwhile, Biden stabs the left (or working people) in the back anyway. I was wondering if people have noticed...
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 06, 2022, 12:27:39 PMOkay, thanks. Those are all legitimate concerns in the abstract.
But once again you, and Todd, have avoided the fact that we are talking here about dick picks, and dick picks of someone who isn't even a politician.
Is revenge porn, even political revenge porn, a free speech issue? I think you could both find worthier examples of political bias in the media to be shining a light on
Tangentially:
Why the Right Needs Hunter Biden (https://www.thebulwark.com/why-the-right-needs-hunter-biden/)
They think his story assuages their guilt, but it doesn't.
Quote from: milk on December 06, 2022, 01:43:47 PMno. It's about the Post story. Dem. Rep. Ro Khanna did not scold Twitter about dick pics. ETA Khanna was right, actually, to worry that a backlash could (and did?) come in the other direction too. By fiddling with the initial Post story, Twitter ignited (or added to) a shit-show that we are stuck with to this day.
The fact that people are discussing the propriety of public figures pressuring private entities regarding content should be cause for alarm. This of course applies in the US. Countries with weak and/or ineffective speech protections may very well censor with abandon.
Quote from: milk on December 06, 2022, 01:43:47 PMno. It's about the Post story. Dem. Rep. Ro Khanna did not scold Twitter about dick pics. ETA Khanna was right, actually, to worry that a backlash could (and did?) come in the other direction too. By fiddling with the initial Post story, Twitter ignited (or added to) a shit-show that we are stuck with to this day. Instead of defending Twitter, people should be more critical of these companies and more interested in what goes on under their proverbial hoods. Meanwhile, Biden stabs the left (or working people) in the back anyway. I was wondering if people have noticed...
But you are the one defending Musk-era Twitter and being uncritical of his motives in this story.
I'm fine with flagging toxic misinformation and think they should have done way more of it way sooner.
When you hear "Hunter Biden Laptop" what does that mean to you? Does the content even matter? Or is it a case of "no smoke without fire"?
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 06, 2022, 02:36:11 PMBut you are the one defending Musk-era Twitter and being uncritical of his motives in this story.
I'm fine with flagging toxic misinformation and think they should have done way more of it way sooner.
When you hear "Hunter Biden Laptop" what does that mean to you? Does the content even matter? Or is it a case of "no smoke without fire"?
where did I defend "Musk-era Twitter"? You're making that up. The left and right have their own blind spots and sensitivities when it comes to such politically sensitive stories. One might compare this to the Steele Dossier. I'm certainly interested in the details but I think this is more about how Twitter decides what to block and who it listens to. Did Twitter pay more attention to the wishes of one team in this instance? You always have to ask yourself how you'd like this if it were happening in the opposite direction. What's the principle of the behavior?
Quote from: milk on December 06, 2022, 03:54:32 PMWhat's the principle of the behavior?
Principles do not govern speech suppression. Ideology does.
Quote from: Todd on December 06, 2022, 04:03:56 PMPrinciples do not govern speech suppression. Ideology does.
Horseshit.
Spin may be coming from both directions, but toxic fever-dream conspiracy-laden disinformation from only one.
Show me them using moderation against an ideology rather than against dangerous incendiary lies and then we'll talk - unless you personally equate the later with the former, which would surprise me not at all.
but this must be the tenth time I've risen to this bit of bait from you, so I'm stepping away now
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 06, 2022, 04:34:46 PMSpin may be coming from both directions, but toxic fever-dream conspiracy-laden disinformation from only one.
Lol not really, toxic conspiracy disinformation festers in pretty much any sort of political direction.
Quote from: greg on December 06, 2022, 05:02:42 PMLol not really, toxic conspiracy disinformation festers in pretty much any sort of political direction.
Absolutely.
Maybe the perception of that is caused by only sticking to specific media sources which won't report news that make them, or whatever team they support, look bad.
Example- I bet no one here is aware of how Timcast has been swatted over 15 times (a couple times I've even see it as the show is live on air). And recently there was an attack where the home was burglarized and shot in.
(Swatting is basically attempted murder because it can result in people getting killed- I can think of at least one story where someone swatted another person and they ended up dead).
It's all politically based, too. Although the show is pretty much center libertarian-leaning overall, and open to guests of any political background, there's leftists that don't like the stance on the culture war issues (especially stances like the whole "groomers" stance) and are consistently doing these murder attempts. If they disagree, they could get on the show- but instead they chose violence.
(There is also another youtuber who associates with the show who has been swatted 6 times already).
But to tie back into the previous point: no mainstream political outlet is going to call out, or even acknowledge the existence at all, of the nonsense conspiracy theories from their side- or if they did buy into them and were proven wrong later, they will just drop it like it never happened.
In general, none of the two sides are interested in improving their own side, they are only interested in attacking the other side and making them look bad. So unless someone watches media from the other side or media that address both sides, then the mere existence of conspiracy nonsense coming from their own side will appear to not even exist.
Twitter Files: Founder Jack Dorsey Urges Musk To Release 'Everything Without Filter' (https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2022/12/07/twitter-files-founder-jack-dorsey-urges-musk-to-release-everything-without-filter/?sh=479b03066d3a)
Billionaire battle!
And what has Jack Dorsey been up to these days? Among other ventures, there's this:
Jack Dorsey-Backed East African Bitcoin Miner Gridless Raises $2M (https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/12/06/east-african-bitcoin-miner-gridless-raises-2m-seed-round/)
What does or will the company do?
"Gridless designs, builds and operates bitcoin mining sites alongside small-scale renewable energy producers in rural Africa where excess energy is unused. Gridless serves as the anchor tenant, financing the construction and managing the operation of data centers in rural communities where traditional industrial or commercial customers are unavailable."
a debate between Matt Taibbi and Douglas Murray vs. Malcom Gladwell and Michell Goldberg on the trustworthiness of the mainstream media. It's pretty darn interesting and it does have some relevance to the question at hand, though only tangentially. I predict that people are going to hear what they want from this depending on their biases and ideological commitments. I would point out that, based on the vote taken before and after the debate, Gladwell/Goldberg lost. I think they did make some good points though I ultimately lost a lot of respect for Gladwell here. I used to like him. He's very insulting but he gets his comeuppance. The link DOES work I think, even though it doesn't look like it.
Quote from: milk on December 08, 2022, 02:22:13 PMthe trustworthiness of the mainstream media
The what now?
I distinguish between the corporate press (as distinct from the independent press) and the media broadly, with the latter including pure entertainment. Pure entertainment does reinforce the values and the agenda(s) of the corporate entities that produce, publish, air, and distribute the various forms of media (eg, movies, television series, radio, podcasts, recorded music), but they should necessarily be taken as fluff. I recognize that some people take these forms of entertainment seriously, and I recognize the propaganda value. The owners and managers of the corporate entities, and government officials who grant special access (eg, access to military hardware and locations for action flicks), do as well.
The corporate press is necessarily limited in what it can and will report and is now entirely untrustworthy. This is in contrast to the late 20th Century, when it was almost entirely untrustworthy. I use NBC and its associated networks as a sort of bellwether, at least for televised corporate press, and it is awful. It routinely runs stories touting flat-out consumerism. The day after Thanksgiving, it ran two full-length stories about shopping. The war was relegated to the third story. That it was Black Friday does not in any way excuse the content. The political bias is open. It has pretty much always been there, but now it is blatant. (The bias at a competing network should have been obvious when Mr Stephanopoulos got his job.) Current war coverage is pro-war, though less gung-ho than before. That is not to say that the coverage is any less bellicose, just that it has been deprioritized in line with polling and viewer preferences. Prior wars this century received laudatory coverage, despite attempts at critical coverage. I'd say that the embedded journalism of the Second Iraq War was the worst, but the nadir for me remains the coverage of the landing of forces in Somalia in 1992, when the corporate press was waiting for the US military on the beach. And this was after the coverage of the First Gulf War, which made celebrities of some journalists. Covid represented a new low in corporate press coverage until the Russo-Ukrainian War arrived. One can watch videos, preserved for posterity, of news anchors repeating the line that people who received vaccines would stop transmission and be protected from the virus and would not get sick. It is impossible to plead ignorance or good intentions; basics of epidemiology were known when the lies were being told. This is not at all to say that people should not be vaccinated, just that the corporate press lied about benefits and downplayed risks.
Independent press, whether online (eg, Substack) or in some independent journals, typically left-leaning or outright left-wing (eg, Mother Jones) still offer or can offer decent or good coverage. (And ICN offers outstanding environmental reporting, even with the obvious bias.) PBS still offers decent general coverage, at least in factual reporting; its "analysis" is biased. (Analyses are biased by nature.) Of course, the same applies to Fox News, not because I say so - I can't stand Fox and don't get cable anyway - it is reported by media observers. Alas, even some employees of more independent journals cannot keep their biases under wraps, as the latest mini-brouhaha regarding a Mother Jones writer shows. And even the once great Frontline is now airing more and more stories produced by major corporate outlets. Social media has some potential, but in general, it's a hot mess. The only hope to learn what is going on is to rely on basic reporting from multiple outlets to ensure the basic facts are correct, with some non-Western outlets in the mix to make sure Western biases are checked. I rely on Singaporean and Indian outlets for that. Relying only on a handful of corporate press outlets is a surefire way to be misled.
I cringe at the overuse and misuse of the word "bias" in these discussions. That a reporter is known to lean left or right doesn't mean they can't do honest and diligent work, and like Mother Jones mentioned above there are so many examples we could point to easily.
I cringe especially hard at accusations of bias in journalism from people who proudly say they never read it, but only watch amateur Youtube armchair bloviators who are equally proud of their ignorance and accept blindly their assurance that traditional media can be disregarded entirely as all tarred with the same brush.
It's the "hot mess" aside in Todd's post that needs to be expanded for some here to the length of Todd's post.
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 08, 2022, 04:22:10 PMI cringe at the overuse and misuse of the word "bias" in these discussions. That a reporter is known to lean left or right doesn't mean they can't do honest and diligent work
Yes, the glib overuse of
bias is a badge of intellectual laziness.
From Axios: Musk's second "Twitter Files" claims "secret blacklists" (https://www.axios.com/2022/12/09/twitter-files-musk-secret-blacklists)
The use of quotes is instructive. It is universally agreed upon on the internet that blacklists are acceptable, especially and particularly if a user violates terms of service, which are sacrosanct.
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 08, 2022, 04:22:10 PMand accept blindly their assurance that traditional media can be disregarded entirely as all tarred with the same brush.
People disregarding entirely is a bad move, I wouldn't agree with their approach.
But no one is taking this stance blindly. There's a pretty solidly bad enough track record from traditional media to where it's best to remain skeptical of it at all times (of course, better to be skeptical of all media as well).
Quote from: greg on December 10, 2022, 08:52:46 AMThere's a pretty solidly bad enough track record from traditional media to where it's best to remain skeptical of it at all times (of course, better to be skeptical of all media as well).
(https://www.pbs.org/crucible/photos/headline6.gif)
I am sure the billionaires and other ultra-wealthy who own the corporate press delight in seeing the hoi polloi leap to the defense of the otherwise defenseless corporate press.
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 08, 2022, 04:22:10 PMI cringe at the overuse and misuse of the word "bias" in these discussions. That a reporter is known to lean left or right doesn't mean they can't do honest and diligent work, and like Mother Jones mentioned above there are so many examples we could point to easily.
I cringe especially hard at accusations of bias in journalism from people who proudly say they never read it, but only watch amateur Youtube armchair bloviators who are equally proud of their ignorance and accept blindly their assurance that traditional media can be disregarded entirely as all tarred with the same brush.
It's the "hot mess" aside in Todd's post that needs to be expanded for some here to the length of Todd's post.
who does that?
Quote from: greg on December 10, 2022, 08:52:46 AMPeople disregarding entirely is a bad move, I wouldn't agree with their approach.
But no one is taking this stance blindly. There's a pretty solidly bad enough track record from traditional media to where it's best to remain skeptical of it at all times (of course, better to be skeptical of all media as well).
I had a long bad experience with a friend who plunged into conspiracy theories and ended up dead. Literally. He jumped in a river. He was actually published a lot on "alternative" media sites. One needs balance. I used to only read center-left and left media. Now I'm surrounded by those same people and most of them can't tolerate other points of view. Balance!
From The Atlantic (an ultra-wealthy person's plaything): Elon Musk Is a Far-Right Activist (https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/12/elon-musk-twitter-far-right-activist/672436/)
An official verdict.
Quote from: Todd on December 11, 2022, 04:02:38 PMFrom The Atlantic (an ultra-wealthy person's plaything): Elon Musk Is a Far-Right Activist (https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/12/elon-musk-twitter-far-right-activist/672436/)
An official verdict.
Lol. And with the evil picture as well.
I can't even read this crap, just one sentence is so terrible.
QuoteIn five words, Musk manages to mock transgender and nonbinary people, signal his disdain for public-health officials, and send up a flare to far-right shitposters and trolls.
1. "Mock" them? Isn't that a bit far? He's just joking around.
2. Disdain for public health officials: so Fauci is all public health officials, huh?
3. What are shitposters and trolls really going to do? "Sending a flare" doesn't really mean anything, he is just airing his goofy thoughts while taking a dump, people can take things how they want, he isn't even directly addressing anyone.
Ah, quality journalism I see.
Quote from: greg on December 12, 2022, 05:06:56 PMAh, quality journalism I see.
It is an ideological form of writing heavily reliant on fashionable jargon. One reads it all over the internet, sometimes on music forums.
Quote from: Todd on December 12, 2022, 06:14:32 PMIt is an ideological form of writing heavily reliant on fashionable jargon. One reads it all over the internet, sometimes on music forums.
Dude, "fashionable jargon" is a pretty good term.
I have noticed over the last few years how, once a certain term gets coined in the mainstream, people here in GMG will adopt it suddenly. But then after a while, it's gone.
Remember "stochastic terrorism"? When is the last time you've heard that?
Of course, this is mostly an internet-wide thing... I wonder if those spikes are all caused by news articles?
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=stochastic%20terrorism
Not that it's necessarily a bad thing... it's just... weird to me.
I just have a weird allergy to adopting stuff like that... especially in school- example, someone was trying to make conversation with me, joking about doing the Harlem Shake, and I couldn't help but cringe hard.
It's like, bro... I'm not adopting shit, I'm the innovator here. That's not my role. People either adopt my shit or they don't, whatever.
btw, here's a graph of the Harlem Shake. Just one big spike. What uselessness, fleeting trends suck lol.
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=harlem%20shake
I saw "stochastic terror" being used today in reference to this
https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/12/tech/twitter-files-yoel-roth/index.html
Quote from: greg on December 12, 2022, 07:18:31 PMRemember "stochastic terrorism"? When is the last time you've heard that?
Today. Wrt Elon's shit-tweeting, including that Fauci one.
You say that people can "take it however they want", but it should be clear by now that how many want to take it is violently. Perpetuating fever-cpnspiracies like this can only end with someone getting hurt. It's more than just lolz, though, unlike you, I fail to see any lolz here at all, just a sad and desperate need for attention, consequences be damned.
Quote from: greg on December 12, 2022, 07:18:31 PMRemember "stochastic terrorism"? When is the last time you've heard that?
Last week, as it happens. It is a very thinky example of purely ideological speech. It epitomizes what Eric Blair warned against in
Politics and the English Language.
One of the reasons I continue to read The New Yorker is because it acts as a sort of beacon for soon to be fashionable jargon. Its authors and editors weed through academic and activist detritus and pluck out words, phrases, and ideas that are then used and misused, sometimes with ardent passion, by the not quite real intelligentsia. The magazine's record is quite good in this regard. Plus, its movie reviews and Alex Ross pieces entertain.
Quote from: Todd on December 13, 2022, 04:42:17 AMOne of the reasons I continue to read The New Yorker is because it acts as a sort of beacon for soon to be fashionable jargon. Its authors and editors weed through academic and activist detritus and pluck out words, phrases, and ideas that are then used and misused, sometimes with ardent passion, by the not quite real intelligentsia. The magazine's record is quite good in this regard.
Ffs...what utter rubbish.
Musk's Twitter disbands its Trust and Safety advisory group (https://apnews.com/article/elon-musk-twitter-inc-technology-business-a9b795e8050de12319b82b5dd7118cd7)
That would the same group that met with and took orders from the FBI, DHS, and DNI. Anyone involved with that should be terminated if they have not been already. I'd love to know if there is any way to sue any individuals for damages. Probably not, but one can wish. Termination is not enough.
Elon Musk is no longer the world's richest person—and the amount he's lost this year is enough to land 4th place on the list (https://fortune.com/2022/12/13/elo-musk-no-longer-world-richest-person-net-worth-drop/)
As Yoel Roth so professionally slacked, wah wah. (PhDs, amiright?)
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/026/506/sdatromb.jpg)
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 12, 2022, 07:44:25 PMToday. Wrt Elon's shit-tweeting, including that Fauci one.
You say that people can "take it however they want", but it should be clear by now that how many want to take it is violently. Perpetuating fever-cpnspiracies like this can only end with someone getting hurt. It's more than just lolz, though, unlike you, I fail to see any lolz here at all, just a sad and desperate need for attention, consequences be damned.
I'm missing the context because I'm not on twitter and don't follow what Elon Musk says. But this description seems like everything from all sides and just keeps reminding me of Marshall McLuhan. Doesn't it seem like the content is all rather secondary these days? It's all white noise at a certain level whether it's Elon Musk or the Prince of England. People talk and people are talking about people talking. People get angry too. I guess I happened to pick a couple of super wealthy people that don't seem to be doing very much at the moment. But here we are talking as well. How does that Harry Nilsson song go?
Quote from: milk on December 13, 2022, 04:23:12 PMDoesn't it seem like the content is all rather secondary these days?
No.
And again: I completely disagree with, and frankly can't respect, anyone who suggests that "both sides" are doing this dangerous and deliberate conspiracy crap.
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 13, 2022, 04:56:25 PMNo.
And again: I completely disagree with, and frankly can't respect, anyone who suggests that "both sides" are doing this dangerous and deliberate conspiracy crap.
I didn't say "both sides." I'm talking about social media. I am not focused on party politics but on how the medium seems to drive behavior and determine what's important. You'll have to explain what Elon Musk says in particular for me to form an opinion about it but I'm shocked that I've lost your respect so suddenly. Let me get a cup of coffee and try to recover.
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 12, 2022, 07:44:25 PMYou say that people can "take it however they want", but it should be clear by now that how many want to take it is violently. Perpetuating fever-cpnspiracies like this can only end with someone getting hurt.
So who decides what is a conspiracy or not, and who decides what is said could end up with people hurt? (Unless it is a direct call for violence, then it is obvious).
With this way of thinking, how could I even express any political opinion at all, let alone anything non-mainstream? Because people could take anything I say and use that as an excuse for violence, should I just never speak?
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 12, 2022, 07:44:25 PMjust a sad and desperate need for attention, consequences be damned.
Referring to Elon? He is a bit of an attention hog.
Quote from: greg on December 13, 2022, 09:28:22 PMSo who decides what is a conspiracy or not, and who decides what is said could end up with people hurt? (Unless it is a direct call for violence, then it is obvious).
With this way of thinking, how could I even express any political opinion at all, let alone anything non-mainstream? Because people could take anything I say and use that as an excuse for violence, should I just never speak?
Depends on your level of influence, I guess. *You* can post like some unread gullible conspiracy believing dupe if you want because the harm you can do is near nil. Personally I think you can aim higher, but that's a different conversation.
Elon, like Trump, has an enormous influence and knows it. And with that level of influence should come the moral obligation not to spread knowingly dangerous untruths just for the clicks. And perhaps unlike you they both know full well that they really are just useful untruths.
Quote from: greg on December 13, 2022, 09:28:22 PManything non-mainstream?
For a while this "non-mainstream" definition of amateur punditry has been reminding me of a now more accepted comment on "alternative medicine": that anything in alternative medicine that is found to be effective under rigorous clinical trials becomes..."medicine". If it's found to be hokum after rigorous trials it remains "alternative"... and hokum.
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 13, 2022, 11:00:09 PMFor a while this "non-mainstream" definition of amateur punditry has been reminding me of a now more accepted comment on "alternative medicine": that anything in alternative medicine that is found to be effective under rigorous clinical trials becomes..."medicine". If it's found to be hokum after rigorous trials it remains "alternative"... and hokum.
I'm sure there are really good definitions out there but I'm too lazy at the moment to look it up. I would think that conspiracy theories fall prey to logical fallacies like the Texas sharp shooter fallacy. My ex-friend who become quite successful building himself up as a kind of expert in a certain area as a conspiracy theorist was highly intelligent and had a great memory for details, names and facts. He placed a lot of value on such minutia.
BTW, there's a big release of Kennedy assassination documents this week supposedly. Another thread perhaps? It's supposed to be a biggie. Apparently, it's taken a lawsuit to get it going and Biden used coronavirus to block it last time around. I think Trump punted on it too.
Quote from: milk on December 14, 2022, 04:47:31 AMBTW, there's a big release of Kennedy assassination documents this week supposedly. Another thread perhaps?
The release will change the world. Or be an irrelevant distraction.
Quote from: Todd on December 14, 2022, 05:14:03 AMThe release will change the world. Or be an irrelevant distraction.
If no one reports it and/or it's inconsequential, it could be irrelevant and cause no distraction whatsoever?
Quote from: milk on December 14, 2022, 05:33:04 AMIf no one reports it and/or it's inconsequential, it could be irrelevant and cause no distraction whatsoever?
True, that is a third option. It actually seems the most likely option.
Twitter is losing ad revenue so fast, it is reportedly considering a plan to require all users to accept personalized advertising (i.e., to require users to share their location, phone number, and other info with advertisers). That is the first thing that has gotten me considering the question in the title.
Several attorneys I follow quit over Elon's use of the platform to harass and insult his former head of safety, Yoel Roth. I guess lawyers look out for their own and so that was the last straw for them.
Quote from: Brian on December 14, 2022, 05:40:00 AMSeveral attorneys I follow quit over Elon's use of the platform to harass and insult his former head of safety, Yoel Roth. I guess lawyers look out for their own and so that was the last straw for them.
Yoel Roth is not a lawyer.
Elon Musk's Twitter isn't paying its bills
Twitter has stopped paying the rent on some of its office leases and hasn't paid numerous other vendors since Elon Musk acquired the company in late October, Axios has learned from multiple sources. (https://www.axios.com/2022/12/14/twitter-elon-musk-paying-bills-rent)
Quote from: Brian on December 14, 2022, 05:40:00 AMTwitter is losing ad revenue so fast, it is reportedly considering a plan to require all users to accept personalized advertising (i.e., to require users to share their location, phone number, and other info with advertisers). That is the first thing that has gotten me considering the question in the title.
Several attorneys I follow quit over Elon's use of the platform to harass and insult his former head of safety, Yoel Roth. I guess lawyers look out for their own and so that was the last straw for them.
The writing appears to be on the Blue Bird's wall.
Quote from: Brian on December 14, 2022, 05:40:00 AMTwitter is losing ad revenue so fast, it is reportedly considering a plan to require all users to accept personalized advertising (i.e., to require users to share their location, phone number, and other info with advertisers). That is the first thing that has gotten me considering the question in the title.
Several attorneys I follow quit over Elon's use of the platform to harass and insult his former head of safety, Yoel Roth. I guess lawyers look out for their own and so that was the last straw for them.
It wasn't simply what happened with Roth.
This by Ken White, whom you might know as Popehat, who writes a good deal on First Amendment issues, among other things (and who is usually worth reading on anything).
QuoteThe other reason is that I think it's fundamentally changed, at least for now. I'm not just talking about the increasing tech glitches. Just as Twitter's former leaders exercised their free speech and free association rights to brand Twitter one way, Twitter's new boss is exercising his rights to brand it another way. That new branding is ugly and despicable and I don't want to contribute content to it. The last straw was Elon Musk sending lunatics and bigots against former employees and leaning into conspiracy theories. So I'm exercising my free speech and free association and leaving, and shuttering the account. I'll probably delete the past tweets because I can't stomach them being available to promote this enterprise.
This is exactly how it's supposed to work, as I've been arguing for years. Twitter — or whoever runs it — has rights. I have rights. If one of us disagrees with the other's exercise of rights, we can part company. That, not government regulation, is the way to do it. I'm repulsed by the flood of triumphant bigotry and trolling, and by Musk's sad-lonely-boy leaning into the arms of freaks who embrace him in his fruitless quest for love. But I'd never ask the government to stop it. I'm voting with my feet, exactly the way I've been telling people to do for years.
From his substack
https://popehat.substack.com/p/goodbye-twitter
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 13, 2022, 10:30:54 PMDepends on your level of influence, I guess. *You* can post like some unread gullible conspiracy believing dupe if you want because the harm you can do is near nil. Personally I think you can aim higher, but that's a different conversation.
Elon, like Trump, has an enormous influence and knows it. And with that level of influence should come the moral obligation not to spread knowingly dangerous untruths just for the clicks. And perhaps unlike you they both know full well that they really are just useful untruths.
I agree that people with a large reach should be more careful of what they say, but still, where do you draw the line between something potentially dangerous and not potentially dangerous, and who gets to decide that?
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 13, 2022, 11:00:09 PMFor a while this "non-mainstream" definition of amateur punditry has been reminding me of a now more accepted comment on "alternative medicine": that anything in alternative medicine that is found to be effective under rigorous clinical trials becomes..."medicine". If it's found to be hokum after rigorous trials it remains "alternative"... and hokum.
Okay. It's fine if it reminds you of that in a vague sense, but the comparison doesn't really make sense since news isn't much like the development of medicine. Medicine is more of a hard science while politics is not. The "trials" for news sources, regardless of if they are good or bad or right or wrong, is more akin to indoctrination and doesn't necessarily reflect physical reality as it tries to change people's beliefs and allegiances to whatever is the power source that it's trying to direct people towards.
Also, I don't consider subscribing to whatever doctrine that any news or news commentary source, whether it be mainstream or non-mainstream, to be any sort of medicine for the soul. Maybe for some people it is, though?
Anyways, there's plenty of fails in mainstream media that turn out to be "hokum." Non-mainstream as well. It's moreso that the most important part is that the recipient is able to discern what is and isn't and use common sense from there.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fjo9p_sXEAQXWzr?format=jpg&name=large)
Obviously we need more info, but really... idk how anyone could read this and not think it's at least highly questionable.
It could be that he's just not thinking it through- the obvious solution if he wants a place to "safely connect young (<18) queer adults" would be to support the development of an entirely different app. They shouldn't be using the same app- same reason why we separate spaces in the real world for >18 and < 18 for certain things. But if he did think it through... then, ummm, red flags for sure. Using the same app, there would always be some sort of workaround for minors and adults to meet up and do things they shouldn't.
I still think there's more to be concerned about regarding Facebook and Twitter (Et al.) than one idiot. Does anyone care that a handful of companies have so much power to drive discourse and behavior? That rubs both ways. It's about politics but more than that. I take back my renunciation of both-side-erism too. I'm more from the left so the far right has always seemed more aggressive and unhinged but the left does it too on Twitter and elsewhere. I mean the left can lean into incitement (think about reactions to recent Supreme Court decisions). And it's clear some of the platforms are/were run by San Francisco liberals are/who were dishonest about what they are/were doing behind the scenes.
Another separate thing to look at is how much communication goes on between government entities and Facebook and other platforms that ask for and disseminate information. Again, that can eventually affect people of all political persuasions - if history is any guide. That's why we used to rely on organizations like the ACLU to be apolitical.
Quote from: JBS on December 14, 2022, 06:30:49 PMIt wasn't simply what happened with Roth.
I like some of what you quoted. For instance: "
That new branding is ugly and despicable and I don't want to contribute content to it. The last straw was Elon Musk sending lunatics and bigots against former employees and leaning into conspiracy theories. So I'm exercising my free speech and free association and leaving, and shuttering the account."
It is dressed up as principled and high-minded decision making; it is purely ideological virtue signaling. Of course people can come and go from different platforms, but this author apparently felt an obligation to say "look at me" when leaving. Actual free speech requires putting up with the despicable. It's not that hard to grasp, really.
Quote from: milk on December 14, 2022, 11:03:47 PMDoes anyone care that a handful of companies have so much power to drive discourse and behavior?
Social media platforms are arguably the third most powerful propaganda tools behind broadcast television and radio. In some areas they may be more potent than the older two technologies.
There has been comparatively little concern expressed about the revelations that Twitter and Facebook certainly based on Taibbi's reporting and Zuckerberg's comments, and most likely all other social media platforms, are working directly with federal government security agencies in a way that shortcuts due process, in some instances entirely. This anti-speech, anti-liberty, pro-state stance and ideological inversion of support for free speech (ie, "liberals" began to openly and unapologetically support speech suppression, and "conservatives" the opposite) began to emerge in the wake of Chelsea Manning's leaks, ratcheted up considerably in the wake of Edward Snowden's leaks, and then intensified when Trump rode down that escalator. Typically, such feverish illiberalism abates after elections, but it has not this time. It is clear that a significant proportion of the population openly supports and in fact desires authoritarian rule, but that was made clear during the pandemic.
This evening Twitter permanently banned the accounts of several journalists who report on Musk and his businesses.
Edit: Also seeing multiple people report that Twitter has banned links to the rival website Mastodon.
Quote from: Todd on December 15, 2022, 04:58:47 AMThere has been comparatively little concern expressed about the revelations that Twitter and Facebook certainly based on Taibbi's reporting and Zuckerberg's comments, and most likely all other social media platforms, are working directly with federal government security agencies in a way that shortcuts due process, in some instances entirely.
To be fair these are hardly "revelations" and have been known, at least to communists and anti-imperialists, for... probably most of the 2010s. I vaguely remember some outcry when Facebook introduced new content moderation policies based on consultation with think tanks directly funded by, and staffed by, US and NATO agencies (such as the Atlantic Council), but Americans tended to ignore this in favour of outcry about the several explicitly
partisan think tanks that had participated, preferring to believe that social media had been captured by the Democrats/Republicans instead of having been, all along and now explicitly, a propaganda arm of the US/NATO regime.
For one example (and undoubtedly a contentious one here), back when I was part of Palestine solidarity movements campaigns were frequently launched to use public pressure to undo the social media censorship (account suspensions, deletions of groups and pages, etc) of various Palestinian civil society and news organisations that were opposed to the American party line of normalisation with Israel, to the point where sometimes it felt like people were spending more time trying to get accounts unbanned than actually providing material support to Palestine—by design, presumably.
I will not argue in favour of free speech here; the lip service paid to it can be a useful weapon in our society, but there are others for when it fails. That said, conservatives have never desired free speech any more than liberals have. Every ideological position (except possibly anarchism) holds that the speech of its enemies should be suppressed via state power, or its nearest equivalent, and only uses "our free speech is being taken away!" as a rhetorical device to signal a fundamental uncertainty, a fear that the public sphere no longer belongs exclusively to them. This fear need not be grounded in reality. Politically, conservatives have been in the ascendant worldwide ever since around 2010, but they are too weak and uncertain in their goals to translate that ascendancy into confidence. Liberals have become politically unsteady, losing track of their own goals as a result, yielding now a situation where both political strains believe their free speech is being suppressed by the other.
Quote from: amw on December 15, 2022, 08:01:22 PMTo be fair these are hardly "revelations" and have been known, at least to communists and anti-imperialists, for... probably most of the 2010s.
Of course. That is why I mentioned the ideological inversion of speech suppression starting around 2010. The media circus surrounding the Snowden leaks and the righteous indignation at learning of the illegal behavior of various security state agencies immediately gave way to defense of those agencies - mostly on the American left, to the extent it actually exists. (The recent breaking of the railroad unions shows it does not, as does Bernie pulling his Yemen resolution.) You can actually go back and read posts defending the practice on this very forum. The point here is that some people denied that Twitter was actively censoring people, with an observable ideological agenda, and now that it has been documented, they remain silent or will use various vapid current political phrases such as "nothingburger" to minimize it. But really, it goes beyond that. There have been repeated public calls to ban this or that person, this or that group, for years. The lusted for bans are disguised as righteous, but they of course are nothing of the sort.
Almost everyone wants to suppress speech at some point. The more openly statist a political ideology is - eg, the narrow range of ideologies held by US Democrats - the greater the lust for censorship. Of course many or most Republicans favor censorship at different times. Think the Dubya "free speech zones", though even those were happily embraced by Democrats.
Quote from: amw on December 15, 2022, 08:01:22 PMEvery ideological position (except possibly anarchism) holds that the speech of its enemies should be suppressed via state power
This is not correct. In the US, there are indeed some principled libertarians, anti-federal conservatives, "liberals" who actually defend civil liberties (they are very rare now), and assorted others, to go along with anarchists. Such people have diminished in number since around the collapse of the USSR. Back in waning days of the Cold War, I never met personally and almost never read about so-called liberals suppressing political speech (other kinds could be suppressed, sure), whereas some conservatives favored suppressing commie speech because of the danger it posed to civilized society. (Conservatives were down with suppressing other forms of speech, too.) I understand that is anecdotal. I also understand that what appears on the internet overrepresents the overall public appetite for speech suppression. When it comes to political communication, the internet tends to be a series of platforms for people to crow about their moral superiority, intellectual superiority, and just all-round virtuousness, and that potent brew of goodness imbues many folks with the faulty belief that they are able to effectively determine what should be censored, and to balk at the fairly minimal case law restrictions on speech in the US, instead favoring more restrictions. I am one of those people who think case law restrictions are too broad and should be narrowed. I want to read what commies think (and to that end I read WSWS at least monthly); I want to read what white/black/<insert other group here> separatists think (I enjoy a good laugh); I want to read the latest on so-called gender identity; and so on. It all needs to be out there, all the time, without limitation beyond the narrow restrictions imposed by case law.
It is also an observable trend that tertiary social issues are being used as wedge issues, as they always are, but they are now used constantly, in a more intensive way, and in a more targeted way. New wedge issues have either been invented or previously irrelevant ones have been amplified in the recent past (the current state of gender identity is an example). New language and new scholarship are being invented or increasingly emphasized to justify the expansion of state power to suppress speech, sometimes with a truly nonsensical basis. There are academic and even popular press articles out there that not only state that speech can lead to violence, but that speech is violence in some cases. That's not new, either, though it is increasing in frequency. I've witnessed people in real life and most certainly online, and definitely on this forum, initially dismiss, say, the idea that statues and names of Founding Fathers (and I mean the more important ones like Washington and Jefferson) would be removed from public spaces only to then defend the actions when they occur. There is no reason to believe that the same people would not adopt wider speech suppression on perverted notions of public safety.
Suppression of speech and dissent, a rather important type of speech I would assert, is getting worse, at least online.
One of the broader implications of this western phenomenon is that the more ingrained such foolhardy notions become, the more they will work their way into foreign policy goals - newer notions of equality will morph into human rights - and those will be used to justify all manner of ill-guided policies against other countries that do not adhere to western values. Which of course is the majority of humanity. The West and the US can turn anything into a crusade.
Tesla's Third Largest Shareholder Calls For the Ouster of Elon Musk as CEO
"Elon abandoned Tesla and Tesla has no working CEO," said KoGuan Leo, who owns $3.4 billion worth of Tesla shares. (https://observer.com/2022/12/koguan-leo-tesla-shareholder-oust-elon-musk/)
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 16, 2022, 01:56:49 PMTesla's Third Largest Shareholder Calls For the Ouster of Elon Musk as CEO
"Elon abandoned Tesla and Tesla has no working CEO," said KoGuan Leo, who owns $3.4 billion worth of Tesla shares. (https://observer.com/2022/12/koguan-leo-tesla-shareholder-oust-elon-musk/)
Too busy as Troll-in-Chief
If anyone has Todd's dick pics could they please post them.
I want to see if there are "ideological" calls to "censor" your "freedom of speech".
Twitter's suspension of journalists sets 'dangerous precedent', UN warns
Pressure grows on Elon Musk as EU says social media platform could face sanctions over suspensions (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/16/twitter-elon-musk-suspension-journalists-sets-dangerous-precedent-un-warns)
"The United Nations is "very disturbed" by Twitter's abrupt suspension of a group of US journalists, a spokesperson has said, warning that the move sets a "dangerous precedent" – as the EU said the social media platform could fall foul of forthcoming digital regulations.
Stéphane Dujarric said on Friday the UN was "very disturbed" by the barring of prominent tech reporters at news organisations including CNN, the Washington Post and the New York Times who have written about Musk and the tech company he owns.
Dujarric said media voices should not be silenced on a platform that professed to be a haven for freedom of speech. "The move sets a dangerous precedent at a time when journalists all over the world are facing censorship, physical threats and even worse," he told reporters.
Germany's government said press freedom must not be switched "on and off on a whim" and Downing Street also raised concernsover the suspensions.
The warning from the EU came from Věra Jourová, the European Commission vice-president for values and transparency, who tweeted that "news about arbitrary suspension of journalists on Twitter is worrying" and said the economic bloc's Digital Services Act (DSA) required platforms to respect media freedom. Its provisions include a requirement that when users and content are penalised it must be in a "diligent and proportionate manner, with due regard to fundamental rights".
"This is reinforced under our Media Freedom Act. Elon Musk should be aware of that. There are red lines. And sanctions, soon," she said. Breaches of the DSA, which comes into force for large tech companies next year, carry the threat of fines of up to 6% of global turnover or being temporarily suspended in extreme cases. The European Media Freedom Act, which also addresses the operation of tech platforms, is currently in draft form.
The official spokesperson for the UK prime minister, Rishi Sunak, said tech companies must "balance protecting their users while upholding free speech". The German government tweeted screenshots of the affected accounts and said it had a "problem" with the suspensions. Germany's foreign office tweeted: "Press freedom cannot be switched on and off on a whim. The journalists below can no longer follow us, comment or criticise us. We have a problem with that, @Twitter."[...]
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 16, 2022, 02:08:34 PMIf anyone has Todd's dick pics could they please post them.
I want to see if there are "ideological" calls to "censor" your "freedom of speech".
As long as you are not trolling, ;D I think this is one of the hits on this thread.
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 16, 2022, 02:26:53 PMTwitter's suspension of journalists sets 'dangerous precedent', UN warns
Pressure grows on Elon Musk as EU says social media platform could face sanctions over suspensions (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/16/twitter-elon-musk-suspension-journalists-sets-dangerous-precedent-un-warns)
He probably should have been a bit more clear on the boundaries and rules for speech on Twitter in the first place, radical free speech has some limits- doxxing being one that is only now being addressed (apparently his private jet, and some stalker now?)
Not being clear is like a signal for everyone in the media who hates him to make him look like a hypocrite.
Weird how this is the first time I've seen the UN comment on Twitter suspensions, conservatives in particular have been facing bans and suspensions for years for opinions, yet I haven't heard them say anything about it.
...so I just checked, apparently he unsuspended the accounts just now that doxxed him. He did it after having a poll and the majority (58%) voted for him to unsuspend them.
Tbh, I don't quite agree, you have to set some boundaries IMO.
It will be clearer if you actually read the whole article I linked to. Or any article that covers it from any reputable source.
I can tell from your comments that you haven't.
He wasn't "doxxed". It's not clear if any part of his story is in any way true given that he's chosen not to involve the police. His rules are unclear because he's making stuff up and changing things daily on whims.
Quote from: greg on December 16, 2022, 09:49:56 PMWeird how this is the first time I've seen the UN comment on Twitter suspensions
I'd say this is something to be concerned about, but it's the UN, so that's clearly not the case.
Quote from: greg on December 16, 2022, 09:49:56 PM...so I just checked, apparently he unsuspended the accounts just now that doxxed him.
Doxxing and targeted threats are the only online behaviors that should result in permanent bans. But Twitter is Musk's plaything, so he can do what he wants with it. And he is. It is all quite delightful.
Quote from: Todd on December 17, 2022, 05:45:06 AMI'd say this is something to be concerned about, but it's the UN, so that's clearly not the case.
Doxxing and targeted threats are the only online behaviors that should result in permanent bans. But Twitter is Musk's plaything, so he can do what he wants with it. And he is. It is all quite delightful.
It is interesting how crazy people are about it. Meanwhile in Japan, where I live, no one's noticed anything is different (not that Japanese notice anything political). But I'm not on Twitter so I'm just observing.
Quote from: milk on December 17, 2022, 10:39:41 PMIt is interesting how crazy people are about it.
It's a moral panic - regarding a website used by the corporate press. Since the corporate press is being very slightly inconvenienced, democracy is in danger, etc. I sure hope members of the corporate press can find alternative platforms.
This is funny:
https://twitter.com/TwitterSupport/status/1604531265419591681
Twitter has banned links to, and usernames from, Facebook, Instagram, Truth Social, Mastodon, and various other rival platforms.
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 16, 2022, 11:26:15 PMHis rules are unclear because he's making stuff up and changing things daily on whims.
That atop his being a habitual bullshitter.
Quote from: Brian on December 18, 2022, 11:57:18 AMThis is funny:
https://twitter.com/TwitterSupport/status/1604531265419591681
Twitter has banned links to, and usernames from, Facebook, Instagram, Truth Social, Mastodon, and various other rival platforms.
FWIW, I'm on Post Beta now.
Quote from: Todd on December 18, 2022, 05:03:21 AMIt's a moral panic - regarding a website used by the corporate press. Since the corporate press is being very slightly inconvenienced, democracy is in danger, etc. I sure hope members of the corporate press can find alternative platforms.
They absolutely love it: "I received zero communication from the company on why I was suspended or what terms I violated," Taylor Lorenz wrote on Substack.
Now there's someone who's overjoyed to be the subject of this story, any story.
Quote from: milk on December 18, 2022, 12:31:16 PMNow there's someone who's overjoyed to be the subject of this story, any story.
Members of the corporate press decrying Musk's all-out assault on the First Amendment, liberty generally, and democracy itself are pure of heart, pure of intent, and are acting as brave defenders of the republic. They are not using the changes at Twitter as a way to garner free publicity, enhance their public image, and possibly advance their careers. Remember, as Jeff Bezos' WaPo slogan says, democracy dies in darkness, and the corporate press fights to bring the pure light of unbiased journalism to the world.
These are scary times.
Karl will like this tweet I just saw:
"For your consideration. The world's wealthiest man has made the largest purchase of his life at 44 billion dollars. The product? A machine that shows him the thoughts of millions of people who all have one thing in common: they hate him. Tonight...On the Twilight Zone."
Quote from: Brian on December 18, 2022, 05:30:53 PMKarl will like this tweet I just saw:
"For your consideration. The world's wealthiest man has made the largest purchase of his life at 44 billion dollars. The product? A machine that shows him the thoughts of millions of people who all have one thing in common: they hate him. Tonight...On the Twilight Zone."
It does sound pretty dumb but there are already millions of Twitter users who don't know who he is and don't care about American politics. What direction is SM heading? This all seems very of-the-moment.
Quote from: milk on December 18, 2022, 10:27:17 PMWhat direction is SM heading?
Depending on the outcome in 2024, potentially toward explicitly legislated federal regulation. Until then, the government will keep coercing private companies to act in desired ways as part of the surveillance state under the Patriot Act.
Quote from: milk on December 18, 2022, 10:27:17 PMWhat direction is SM heading? This all seems very of-the-moment.
My partner, who works in a state-funded science research lab, just got an all-employees email last week reminding everyone that the state government has officially banned the use of Tiktok on all state computers, phones, premises, wifi networks, etc.
Quote from: Brian on December 19, 2022, 06:36:15 AMMy partner, who works in a state-funded science research lab, just got an all-employees email last week reminding everyone that the state government has officially banned the use of Tiktok on all state computers, phones, premises, wifi networks, etc.
Hopefully maselreb migrates to YouTube. Her court transcript readings are delightful.
There is increasing talk about a national ban of the app. But beware the power of Big Tech:
TikTok might be too big to ban, no matter what lawmakers say (https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/16/tech/tiktok-ban-users/index.html)
Some people once warned that breaking up AT&T was impossible.
Why does the goverment want to ban TikTok? Isn't it just idiotic dance videos that keep people ignorant so that the goverment can keep screwing people over?
Quote from: 71 dB on December 19, 2022, 07:58:50 AMWhy does the goverment want to ban TikTok? Isn't it just idiotic dance videos that keep people ignorant so that the goverment can keep screwing people over?
The Chinese connection: the CCP apparently can use it as spyware on any phone or computer which has it. (Or at least geoloacation and some personalized data that ought remain private to the user.)
Quote from: JBS on December 19, 2022, 08:02:34 AMThe Chinese connection: the CCP apparently can use it as spyware on any phone or computer which has it. (Or at least geoloacation and some personalized data that ought remain private to the user.)
It is a legitimate concern. Anecdotally, a former employer in the financial industry purchased a Chinese made security system and learned later that the system sent data to the Chinese corporate headquarters without the knowledge of anyone in the company and outside of the contractual terms. Upon learning this, the system was immediately shut down and a US made system installed. Federal financial regulators have been scrutinizing non-US made security systems for years. And just a few weeks ago, the FCC banned authorizations for certain Chinese manufactured equipment under the Secure Equipment Act of 2021: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat (https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-bans-authorizations-devices-pose-national-security-threat)
The cited bill passed 420-4 in the House and unanimously in the Senate.
The extent to which any potential TikTok ban, the Secure Equipment Act of 2021, and similar legislation and executive orders are overreactions on security grounds, or benefit special interest groups, and so on can certainly be debated.
One can certainly ponder which central government monitors Americans more closely, the Chinese government or the US federal government.
(https://drivewesaid.com/storage/post-images/639fb2c71535d14066c5298b3a9e9aafde2604179895666b4db4b.jpeg)
twitter.com/iamraisini
Just overheard Elon Musk discussing investment opportunities from the Amir of Qatar
@TamimBinHamad & other Saudi Royals for his businesses, specifically Twitter,but from their body language & diplomatic response, it didn't seem very positive. They asked him to find a suitable CEO
oh and:
Musk blamed a Twitter account for an alleged stalker. Police see no link. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/12/18/details-of-musk-stalking-incident/)
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 16, 2022, 11:26:15 PMreputable source.
Okay, maybe this is off-topic and a bit on the weird side.
I just don't buy into the idea of a "reputable source" existing at all, other than my own senses. Yes, of course, there's tabloids and there's news sources which can be semi-consistently accurate, and you prioritize one over the other. But I'd never call anything a "reputable source." It just feels weird (I'm not calling you weird, just that I don't understand the attitude). :)
A similar comparison- in the gaming world, certain leakers have been consistently accurate- and recently, I heard they predicted the next big game I'm looking forward to launching on July 22nd... a few weeks later, it is officially announced, so they were accurate. IIRC they got the last 10 out of 11 things right- so would I ever say they are a "reputable source?" It just doesn't feel right- more like I'd say that they are usually accurate, moreso than most, but they can still be wrong. It feels like anyone that calls certain sources "reputable," and just believe and trust them are pretty much outsourcing their perception of reality.
Like, you ever hear certain words and just know you couldn't comfortably use them? There's something possibly profound in that, I think.
Anyways, off topic comment over. :P
That's not what the word means.
Quote from: greg on December 19, 2022, 08:32:53 PMI just don't buy into the idea of a "reputable source" existing at all
The phrase is ideological.
Quote from: Todd on December 20, 2022, 04:07:57 AMThe phrase is ideological.
No, but I don't doubt its been misused in that way. I can name a number of right-leaning outlets I'd call reputable.
But you know this - you just want to have a stir.
A web outlet named The Daily Dot has resurrected themes covered early in the year by the august The New York Times and Joy Reid at MSNBC making hay of Musk's nationality:
Elon Musk accused of going back to his 'apartheid roots' after losing Twitter CEO vote, proposing poll tax (https://www.dailydot.com/debug/elon-musk-poll-tax/)
I do like how people can and willfully do conflate a poll tax with a paid membership.
Musk has promised to give up the CEO title once a replacement is found. Then some people can pretend that the person who owns the privately owned company doesn't ultimately call the shots. So many possible candidates.
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 19, 2022, 08:45:17 PMThat's not what the word means.
"reputable"- having a good reputation.
In the context of reputation, I'm talking about the reliability aspect of a "reputable source."
A source becomes reputable by becoming reliable/accurate, by perceiving reality correctly. (the opposite example given, tabloids, are not reputable because they do not perceive/portray reality accurately).
Maybe not so much as in a broader context of something like "a reputable ice cream shop."
So was just commenting moreso on the reliability angle that leads to good reputation, which then leads to people quoting the source as fact, or being able to use them as a "trusted source" on a college essay, etc., that sort of thing.
Quote from: Todd on December 21, 2022, 06:59:54 AMA web outlet named The Daily Dot has resurrected themes covered early in the year by the august The New York Times and Joy Reid at MSNBC making hay of Musk's nationality:
Elon Musk accused of going back to his 'apartheid roots' after losing Twitter CEO vote, proposing poll tax (https://www.dailydot.com/debug/elon-musk-poll-tax/)
I do like how people can and willfully do conflate a poll tax with a paid membership.
Musk has promised to give up the CEO title once a replacement is found. Then some people can pretend that the person who owns the privately owned company doesn't ultimately call the shots. So many possible candidates.
Myspace's Tom commented, now that would be a hilarious twist of events if it were him. ;D
Elon Musk Becomes First Person Ever to Lose $200 Billion (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-30/elon-musk-becomes-first-person-ever-to-lose-200-billion)
"Elon Musk was the second person ever to amass a personal fortune of more than $200 billion, breaching that threshold in January 2021, months after Jeff Bezos.
The Tesla Inc. chief executive officer has now achieved a first of his own: becoming the only person in history to erase $200 billion from their net worth."[...]
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 31, 2022, 02:01:49 PMElon Musk Becomes First Person Ever to Lose $200 Billion (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-30/elon-musk-becomes-first-person-ever-to-lose-200-billion)
"Elon Musk was the second person ever to amass a personal fortune of more than $200 billion, breaching that threshold in January 2021, months after Jeff Bezos.
The Tesla Inc. chief executive officer has now achieved a first of his own: becoming the only person in history to erase $200 billion from their net worth."[...]
Perhaps he should consider leaving Twitter ....
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 31, 2022, 02:26:31 PMPerhaps he should consider leaving Twitter ....
Twitter will probably leave him... ;D
Twitter used the phrase "government partners". Being a veteran of corporate America, I understand the use of jargon. Having worked for heavily regulated companies, one word that was never used to describe either federal or state government officials was "partners". Eh, this is a nothingburger. Everyone acted in good faith. Russia, disinformation, public safety, democracy, and all that.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkwkTBwaEAIidv7?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Dozens of media companies set 2023 content deals with Twitter (https://www.axios.com/2023/01/17/twitter-media-sports-content-deals)
As of about 15-20 minutes ago, Twitter appears to have implemented strict limits on how often free users can tweet. I triggered a "you have exceeded your daily allowed tweets" by writing an 8th tweet. Someone else told me she'd gotten the message while trying to write tweet #3 of the day.
But, being run by idiots as the company now is, there is currently an easy workaround: schedule your tweet for 1 minute in the future, and it will be readily accepted.
Quote from: Brian on February 08, 2023, 01:24:39 PMAs of about 15-20 minutes ago, Twitter appears to have implemented strict limits on how often free users can tweet. I triggered a "you have exceeded your daily allowed tweets" by writing an 8th tweet. Someone else told me she'd gotten the message while trying to write tweet #3 of the day.
But, being run by idiots as the company now is, there is currently an easy workaround: schedule your tweet for 1 minute in the future, and it will be readily accepted.
Interesting. I haven't encountered that yet, but I don't usually tweet more than 2-3 times a day. (And that may decrease if the current proprietor continues to show his lack of judgment and/or interest.)
-Bruce
I've deactivated my account. Whether or not it has anything to do with the point
@Brian makes, I discovered today some 12 or so "failed to send tweet" drafts. I've never received any notification about tweet limits or anything. Plus, there has been a marked uptick of rubbish in my feed. I am just plain done with it.
Quote from: Brian on February 08, 2023, 01:24:39 PMAs of about 15-20 minutes ago, Twitter appears to have implemented strict limits on how often free users can tweet. I triggered a "you have exceeded your daily allowed tweets" by writing an 8th tweet. Someone else told me she'd gotten the message while trying to write tweet #3 of the day.
It may be a glitch: Twitter was down for about 90 minutes Wednesday, telling users they'd hit their daily limit on posts (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/08/twitter-daily-limit-error-prevents-users-from-posting.html) You should be back to being able to post up to 2400 tweets a day pretty quick.
Quote from: Todd on February 08, 2023, 02:43:37 PMIt may be a glitch: Twitter was down for about 90 minutes Wednesday, telling users they'd hit their daily limit on posts (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/08/twitter-daily-limit-error-prevents-users-from-posting.html) You should be back to being able to post up to 2400 tweets a day pretty quick.
Oh good! I'll write 2399 tweets tomorrow to celebrate.
Quote from: Brian on February 08, 2023, 06:59:44 PMOh good! I'll write 2399 tweets tomorrow to celebrate.
The number of things people can do and the amount of content people can view, for free, is quite impressive.
Quote from: Brian on February 08, 2023, 06:59:44 PMOh good! I'll write 2399 tweets tomorrow to celebrate.
Progress (?) Report? 😉
I deactivated my Twitter account for obvious reasons!
For me, it's not complicated: I don't like what we call "social networks" with all the inconvenience they bring, so I'm not on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, etc.
Quote from: Karl Tirebiter Henning on February 09, 2023, 06:45:22 AMProgress (?) Report? 😉
Oh shoot. Only three so far. This is going to be challenging!
Quote from: Brian on February 09, 2023, 07:10:55 AMOh shoot. Only three so far. This is going to be challenging!
I feel ya, bud. My dozen-ish "failed to send" lot represented a backlog of a few days, and is not to be accounted for by a day's outage.
As someone on Twitter predicted (right after its new owner fired a lot of the tech people), the platform is likely to slowly decay—like a car with little bits and pieces falling off, until it finally stops. That may be what is happening.
It does make me a little sad, only because—especially for writers, journalists, and other news types—it has been a great information source. Lately it seems less valuable, though many good accounts remain.
-Bruce
Quote from: Brian on February 09, 2023, 07:10:55 AMOh shoot. Only three so far. This is going to be challenging!
You've exceeded my lifetime total.
Quote from: brewski on February 09, 2023, 07:38:44 AMAs someone on Twitter predicted (right after its new owner fired a lot of the tech people), the platform is likely to slowly decay—like a car with little bits and pieces falling off, until it finally stops. That may be what is happening.
It does make me a little sad, only because—especially for writers, journalists, and other news types—it has been a great information source. Lately it seems less valuable, though many good accounts remain.
-Bruce
Yep, the wheels are falling off. Few people, perhaps, could have poisoned it so quickly as Musk. Pardon my mixed metaphor ....
I had the notion to log into twitter and I don't seem to be able to. I put in my registration email and password and click login, the result is I get an email saying I've logged in from an unrecognized account, but I'm not logged in, I still see the invitation to log in. Then it asks for my username instead of email, and again, I'm not logged in.
Brewski, I got an email notification from twitter in which you say all of a sudden you are not following anyone. Did your "follows" come back, or gone for good?
Seems like I won't be able to delete buy twitter account even if I want to...
I only follow work-related stuff, only rarely comment and liberally block stuff that irritates me. So far it still seems to be working OK, despite all the grumbling I see about blue checks.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 01, 2023, 11:56:40 AMBrewski, I got an email notification from twitter in which you say all of a sudden you are not following anyone. Did your "follows" come back, or gone for good?
Yes, the follow count returned fairly quickly, maybe an hour later. But I'm not surprised to hear of other issues, like your login problem. I think there are too few staff on board at Twitter, and likely all being stretched thin, so there aren't people to jump in and fix things unless it's something major.
I dunno...I give the site maybe a year? It's hard to say, when the owner doesn't really seem invested in its success.
-Bruce
After waiting a half-hour, I tried again. First I saw the usual logged-in page appear briefly then disappear. One more try and I was logged in.
Quote from: brewski on May 01, 2023, 12:36:38 PMYes, the follow count returned fairly quickly, maybe an hour later. But I'm not surprised to hear of other issues, like your login problem. I think there are too few staff on board at Twitter, and likely all being stretched thin, so there aren't people to jump in and fix things unless it's something major.
I dunno...I give the site maybe a year? It's hard to say, when the owner doesn't really seem invested in its success.
-Bruce
Out of curiosity, I established a fresh account. So far, it's been reasonably easy to keep my feed toxin-free, which is an improvement on when I decided to delete my account.
Quote from: Karl Henning on May 01, 2023, 01:01:25 PMOut of curiosity, I established a fresh account. So far, it's been reasonably easy to keep my feed toxin-free, which is an improvement on when I decided to delete my account.
Yes, keep us posted on how that tactic goes, especially if it continues to be a good decision. Who knows, the algorithm may favor new accounts. (I have given up trying to figure out what Musk wants/expects out of all of this.)
-Bruce
Quote from: brewski on May 01, 2023, 03:24:32 PM. (I have given up trying to figure out what Musk wants/expects out of all of this.)
-Bruce
He fucked up plain and simple. He knew it so he tried to pull out.
He is impulsive, emotional.
Quote from: brewski on May 01, 2023, 12:36:38 PMI dunno...I give the site maybe a year? It's hard to say, when the owner doesn't really seem invested in its success.
From the Financial Times: Elon Musk says Twitter may reach positive cash flow by second quarter (https://www.ft.com/content/ccb40e03-099f-4bfe-ad34-2e6c3ec88c81)
Twitter was not the picture of financial health before Musk took over. Doomsayers and gossip hounds predicted Twitter would disappear in mere months after Musk bought it. Perhaps Musk fails, or perhaps his idea of success - financial success - is the real one and the collective internet opinion is the phony one.
I deactivated my account this morning.
It is of course possible that I'll change my mind; but the amount and value of the information I was getting from it continued to go down, and the algorithm seems to determine to force depressing news and anger-provoking posts repeatedly into my view.
So bye bye birdy.
Quote from: JBS on May 08, 2023, 10:16:02 AMI deactivated my account this morning.
It is of course possible that I'll change my mind; but the amount and value of the information I was getting from it continued to go down, and the algorithm seems to determine to force depressing news and anger-provoking posts repeatedly into my view.
So bye bye birdy.
I'm about to leave as well, I think. Plus, it is pointless comment on any kind of post unless you have > 1,000 followers, it seems.
Apparently the app has been changed primarily to offer additional benefits to subscribers (their replies appear first, their posts are boosted in the algorithm, etc). Basically it's moved from being a free app to a freemium one. The costs of becoming a verified organisation have also led a number of groups i follow (notably, local transit alerts) to abandon the app. The results represent a fundamental misunderstanding of the business model (people used it because everyone important was there; that's no longer true) and indicate that it's turning into something more like a web forum, and I participate in enough of those already. Perhaps it's "making profits" now but it is no longer the public utility it used to be.
Will also say that every former mutual or follower I know who is Jewish now receives, under every post, anywhere from 5 to 100 replies from blue check accounts consisting of ✡️ emojis and antisemitic memes (ranging from "check the nose", "early life", "the tribe", "can't stop noticing" to "when your tribe was driven out of 190 countries maybe there's a good reason for it" to straight up photos of Hitler). The current system enables this kind of trolling, which seems to go unpunished as long as it's done by a twitter subscriber. Such an environment is obviously unappealing.
I deactivated my own account a while back so I don't have first hand confirmation of this but I've seen many examples.
Quote from: JBS on May 08, 2023, 10:16:02 AMI deactivated my account this morning.
It is of course possible that I'll change my mind; but the amount and value of the information I was getting from it continued to go down, and the algorithm seems to determine to force depressing news and anger-provoking posts repeatedly into my view.
So bye bye birdy.
And I changed my mind.
I spent a bit of time today rooting through Post and Spoutible, and discovering that as bad as it is, Twitter still has a broader range of information sources, more variety of topics, and is less of an Democratic echo chamber than they are. Same with Mastodon although not as badly.
The core problem I think is that these competing platforms haven't attracted enough members to allow the range--US historians, UK archeologists, Jewish and Islamic academics, Ukrainian and Israeli journalists, Palestinians living in Europe (to take some of the people I follow on Twitter)--that Twitter still offers.
Quote from: amw on May 08, 2023, 03:27:16 PMThe results represent a fundamental misunderstanding of the business model (people used it because everyone important was there; that's no longer true)...
And it was free. Freemium is likely a more sustainable model.
Quote from: amw on May 08, 2023, 03:27:16 PMPerhaps it's "making profits" now but it is no longer the public utility it used to be.
It was never a public utility. That was a false aspirational description used by a tiny minority of netizens who believed, and some probably still believe, that the various regulatory models applied to actual utilities might work for webpages. Also, Twitter is not yet profitable, but it will soon have positive free cash flow, which is more important. Ask Jeff Bezos.
Since many people enjoyed Twitter and the barriers to entry to building webpages are basically nil, enterprising tech bros, or others, should get right on starting competing firms.
Quote from: Todd on May 09, 2023, 04:20:34 AMSince many people enjoyed Twitter and the barriers to entry to building webpages are basically nil, enterprising tech bros, or others, should get right on starting competing firms.
There are many rival "new" Twitters already, so many that I am getting impatient for consensus to form so I don't go out and sign up for the Betamax or HDDVD of nattering on the internet. So far many are saddled with pointless additions to the platform. Mastodon makes you sign up for a series of enclosed servers, instead of just plugging in to one big universe of people trash talking each other. Spoutible is saddled with performative "rah rah Elon sucks" marketing that makes me think it is a scam of some kind. From what I hear, Bluesky has the correct chaotic energy, but they're currently only allowing beta testers selected from the media and influencer communities, so I can't see for myself.
Edit: Oh, JBS already said this very well. This is what I get for coming back from vacation and not reading everything!
Quote from: amw on May 08, 2023, 03:27:16 PMApparently the app has been changed primarily to offer additional benefits to subscribers (their replies appear first, their posts are boosted in the algorithm, etc).
One thing I noticed while traveling this weekend was that every morning, the Twitter app had sent my phone three or more overnight push notifications showing tweets from random celebrities I don't follow, without context, except a category. One of them, for example, said "Sports," followed by part of an ESPN announcer's tweet. The feature is so bad that they don't even show the full message, just the first 20 ish characters, so I don't even know what sport they were talking about.
I'll probably very quickly delete the app if it keeps sending this spam.
Quote from: Brian on May 09, 2023, 02:05:54 PMOne thing I noticed while traveling this weekend was that every morning, the Twitter app had sent my phone three or more overnight push notifications showing tweets from random celebrities I don't follow, without context, except a category. One of them, for example, said "Sports," followed by part of an ESPN announcer's tweet. The feature is so bad that they don't even show the full message, just the first 20 ish characters, so I don't even know what sport they were talking about.
I'll probably very quickly delete the app if it keeps sending this spam.
This highlights what I see as the defining characteristic of "social media." They decide what I will see, not me. Content appearing on my "wall," or "feed' or whatever they call it now is not restricted to people I follow, am "friends" with. It is dominated spam that their algorithm thinks I will click on to make them a few cents. If I see something from one of my contacts, it will be gone after my page automatically refreshes itself, or I return to the site, only findable after a painful search, if at all. On twitter I get incessant notifications from someone who, I have no idea who they are. Facebook has decided I am obsessed with Paul McCartney and I see endless throwback photos and laudatory blurbs about how he is the most wonderful example of the human species ever. I imagine a version of Facebook or twitter where I only see posts by my contacts, and maybe some ads for corn flakes.
Quote from: Brian on May 09, 2023, 02:01:44 PMThere are many rival "new" Twitters already, so many that I am getting impatient for consensus to form so I don't go out and sign up for the Betamax or HDDVD of nattering on the internet.
Are they all free? If so, signing up and using one for a while and then ditching is decidedly painless, especially compared to the money laid out on all those Betamax tapes when they were new . . .
Quote from: brewski on May 01, 2023, 03:24:32 PMYes, keep us posted on how that tactic goes, especially if it continues to be a good decision. Who knows, the algorithm may favor new accounts. (I have given up trying to figure out what Musk wants/expects out of all of this.)
-Bruce
Even with the spike in activity which we might expect the "Town Hall" to have inspired, my feed has been
clean as a pastor's sheets (to borrow a phrase from
True Lies. So I consider the ongoing experiment successful thus far.
More trolls than usual in my feed today, as a result of the Arraignment, so I'm doing a lot of blocking ....
I used to follow a few Twitter accounts to keep up with developments in Ukraine. But since yesterday Twitter doesn't allow reading posts without an account/being logged in.
Well, that was that then... ::)
Quote from: Que on June 30, 2023, 11:31:53 PMI used to follow a few Twitter accounts to keep up with developments in Ukraine. But since yesterday Twitter doesn't allow reading posts without an account/being logged in.
Well, that was that then... ::)
Yes, I discovered that too. Even less incentive now to create a Twitter account.
PD
Quote from: Que on June 30, 2023, 11:31:53 PMI used to follow a few Twitter accounts to keep up with developments in Ukraine. But since yesterday Twitter doesn't allow reading posts without an account/being logged in.
Well, that was that then... ::)
Whose accounts have you watched to keep up with developments in Ukraine?
How is Twitter still a thing? I thought it would have totally imploded months ago... ::)
Quote from: 71 dB on July 01, 2023, 03:01:45 AMHow is Twitter still a thing? I thought it would have totally imploded months ago... ::)
Multiple GMG posters predicted Twitter's swift demise. Turns out people who run businesses don't post on GMG.
Maybe Ms Yaccarino will take the site to new heights:
Linda Yaccarino's vision for Twitter 2.0 emerges
CEO hits ground running with plans for new advertisement offering while telling staff to ready for 'hand-to-hand combat' (https://www.ft.com/content/5a792427-5ca0-48f8-a459-c704036d1d35)
Meanwhile this is what I see when I check my TL or profile
Seems a general server problem since about 4-5 hours; I got the same when accessing with PC but it intermittently worked from my phone, neither well nor reliable, though.
Quote from: JBS on July 01, 2023, 07:11:46 AMMeanwhile this is what I see when I check my TL or profile
I'm getting "cannot load tweets at this time" periodically today, too.
The collapse of twitter that was predicted did not occur. But media reports say that revenue is down to a third of what it was, and staffing is about a third of what it was. You could say that seems to more or less cancel out.
Many of the people encountering server problems are probably up against this new rule: you are only allowed to see 600 tweets per day (300 if a new account), unless you pay for "Verified," at which point you are allowed to see 6000.
According to the Musk announcement, "getting data pillaged so much that it was degrading service for normal users". Seems like users viewing tweets is "pillaging" the service.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on July 01, 2023, 10:42:18 AMYou could say that seems to more or less cancel out.
No, it doesn't.
Quote from: Brian on July 01, 2023, 10:45:09 AMMany of the people encountering server problems are probably up against this new rule: you are only allowed to see 600 tweets per day (300 if a new account), unless you pay for "Verified," at which point you are allowed to see 6000.
Looks like Twitter is moving to a freemium structure. That is a proven model. I would not be surprised if various adjustments are made to viewable tweets and other content. It also seems reasonable to expect that as advertising generates more revenue that users may be offered other pricing structures to opt out of advertising and up viewable content. Maybe it fails, though Twitter has lasted longer than predicted on this very forum and on the interwebs more broadly.
This software developer on Mastodon thinks Twitter has been having struggles today because it accidentally launched a DDOS attack on itself:
https://sfba.social/@sysop408/110639435788921057
Quote from: Brian on July 01, 2023, 10:45:09 AMMany of the people encountering server problems are probably up against this new rule: you are only allowed to see 600 tweets per day (300 if a new account), unless you pay for "Verified," at which point you are allowed to see 6000.
If this rule stays that would make twitter moot for most non-verified users. The earlier restrictions on tweeting out stuff make some sense for "light users" but 300-600 tweets is nothing for receiving information, esp. on a weekend. So if Musk does not want to completely change the character and reach, he needs to change this again. I mean, until recently non-registered users could browse. Now a registered user who might tweet something useful once in a while and amplify stuff by retweeting cannot even browse to a reasonable extent.
Quote from: Todd on July 01, 2023, 11:02:41 AMLooks like Twitter is moving to a freemium structure. That is a proven model. I would not be surprised if various adjustments are made to viewable tweets and other content. It also seems reasonable to expect that as advertising generates more revenue that users may be offered other pricing structures to opt out of advertising and up viewable content. Maybe it fails, though Twitter has lasted longer than predicted on this very forum and on the interwebs more broadly.
Is there any data publicly available on Twitter's current ad revenues?
The ads pushed into my TL seem to be ads for evangelical ministries of one type or another, ads for products whose verbiage is clearly targeting MAGA type people, and alternative health products. I have to wonder if the revenue from those enterprises approaches what came in from pre-Elon advertising.
Quote from: JBS on July 01, 2023, 06:17:22 PMIs there any data publicly available on Twitter's current ad revenues?
Probably somewhere. Do some digging and report back.
Quote from: JBS on July 01, 2023, 06:17:22 PMThe ads pushed into my TL seem to be ads for evangelical ministries of one type or another, ads for products whose verbiage is clearly targeting MAGA type people, and alternative health products. I have to wonder if the revenue from those enterprises approaches what came in from pre-Elon advertising.
I'll have to take your word for it. It is so very odd that you gripe so much about free stuff.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on July 01, 2023, 10:52:57 AMAccording to the Musk announcement, "getting data pillaged so much that it was degrading service for normal users". Seems like users viewing tweets is "pillaging" the service.
Such a genius, he is....
Quote from: Todd on July 01, 2023, 06:49:51 PMI'll have to take your word for it. It is so very odd that you gripe so much about free stuff.
There are ads (or de facto ads, "sponsored tweets", I got a lot in Arabic for hadj last week despite having no background in that religion, region or language) like in free youtube and podcasts.
I am pissed as I only registered a few weeks ago and barely got a taste of twitter before getting now practically excluded. AFAIS the attraction of twitter is not at all getting stuff "free" (like it is on youtube where one gets music, documentaries and other stuff that is as good as commercial professional productions or an interesting alternative to them for free, except for a few ads) but the informal, undirected interaction of a broad public both among themselves and with "professionals" (journalists, scientists, politicians).
Sure, this generates far more noise and heat than light but it's still a thing not existent anywhere else. If this will now be cut down to far fewer (i.e. paying blue check) users and others cannot even passively browse, twitter will completely change its character, I think.
Quote from: Jo498 on July 02, 2023, 12:35:31 AMSure, this generates far more noise and heat than light but it's still a thing not existent anywhere else.
Twitter has multiple competitors. As far as I am aware, most of them are free. Whether they are perfect substitutes is a matter of taste. But they are substitutes.
I am sure there are various attractive features of Twitter that suffice to draw some users in, but make no mistake, overall user count and activity is materially driven by it being free. That is how the site was designed and implemented. Musk is changing the site, and that has dissatisfied some/many/most people accustomed to free stuff they liked and the politicized censorship they craved. It has also led to people who don't have the first clue about how to run any business offering masterful analyses about what should be done. The world is oversaturated with social media consultants.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on July 01, 2023, 10:52:57 AMAccording to the Musk announcement, "getting data pillaged so much that it was degrading service for normal users". Seems like users viewing tweets is "pillaging" the service.
I saw somewhere that he said it was due to high web scraping activity.
Surely would have some limit on throttling requests like any website should typically have, but if there are many people around the world scraping the site at the same time (making just a little bit more requests than the average user), then that seems it could add up to be a problem.
Idk the reason for the higher activity, other than maybe people want to save tweets in case any rules change which affects existing tweets? (idk, just a wild guess)
Quote from: greg on July 03, 2023, 11:41:36 AMI saw somewhere that he said it was due to high web scraping activity.
That was why Reddit made the change with third party api's. It unfortunately screws over the little guy in the process, but major companies are scraping those social media sites to train their AIs without the social media sites getting much in return. I don't know if that is the way with Twitter, but it is with Reddit.
Quote from: DavidW on July 03, 2023, 01:40:56 PMThat was why Reddit made the change with third party api's. It unfortunately screws over the little guy in the process, but major companies are scraping those social media sites to train their AIs without the social media sites getting much in return. I don't know if that is the way with Twitter, but it is with Reddit.
Oh, it's the AI's doing the scraping... now that all makes sense.
Well, the immediate solution that comes to mind probably isn't achievable then, or it would have been done already... something like have a separate website with a copy of everything (post/tweets), backed up daily that the AI can use for training, instead of affecting a site with user traffic.
My Twitter acct. was suspended yesterday. I never use it, but had broken the rules for abusive/bad content...lol. My talents amaze me ;)
Quote from: david johnson on July 04, 2023, 03:28:05 AMMy Twitter acct. was suspended yesterday. I never use it, but had broken the rules for abusive/bad content...lol. My talents amaze me ;)
When Muskie took over I deleted my account.
So, re the AI training and scraping: Are companies basically copying the tweets and using the information to attract customers to their own websites?
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on July 04, 2023, 04:11:45 AMSo, re the AI training and scraping: Are companies basically copying the tweets and using the information to attract customers to their own websites?
PD
I don't know if it's true, but if so, my guess would be they are plugging all the tweets into an AI so the AI can learn "how to tweet." Then, yeah, at minimum they might create AI accounts to try to attract customers.
Honestly it's surprising if that had not happened already. I've already seen AI generated reviews on Google Maps. :o
Quote from: Brian on July 04, 2023, 04:17:58 AMI don't know if it's true, but if so, my guess would be they are plugging all the tweets into an AI so the AI can learn "how to tweet." Then, yeah, at minimum they might create AI accounts to try to attract customers.
Honestly it's surprising if that had not happened already. I've already seen AI generated reviews on Google Maps. :o
AI reviews?! Scary!
I was initially thinking that Twitter was getting tired of folks sharing/reporting information that say like celebrities share with their followers on Twitter.
PD
Quote from: Brian on July 04, 2023, 04:17:58 AMI've already seen AI generated reviews on Google Maps.
AI "news" articles pop up on MSN. They are easy to spot - they have better grammar than most online human scribes, but are even more vapid.
Quote from: greg on July 03, 2023, 09:53:10 PMOh, it's the AI's doing the scraping... now that all makes sense.
Well, the immediate solution that comes to mind probably isn't achievable then, or it would have been done already... something like have a separate website with a copy of everything (post/tweets), backed up daily that the AI can use for training, instead of affecting a site with user traffic.
Well for sure that is what is happening with Reddit. I don't really know what is going on with Twitter because I don't use it. They could be just trying to capitalize on the minority of whales that disproportionally use the platform without punishing the casual users.
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on July 04, 2023, 04:24:54 AMAI reviews?! Scary!
A couple of weeks ago, I was watching a YouTube video (something like "Five Great Noir movies") The narrated summaries were so formulaic and repetitive I thought, "Either this is an unusually dull person, or AI."
Cross-post:
Quote from: Karl Henning on July 04, 2023, 06:41:49 AMHow to talk about AI (even if you don't know much about AI) (https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/05/30/1073680/how-to-talk-about-ai-even-if-you-dont-know-much-about-ai/?utm_campaign=site_visitor.unpaid.engagement&utm_medium=tr_social&utm_source=Twitter&twclid=2-b36dca51qts8gwul7kysb1d7)
Quote from: Karl Henning on July 04, 2023, 06:34:52 AMA couple of weeks ago, I was watching a YouTube video (something like "Five Great Noir movies") The narrated summaries were so formulaic and repetitive I thought, "Either this is an unusually dull person, or AI."
That could explain some of the commentaries that I've seen on youtube. Very robotic sounding (stilted) and no real information.
PD
Quote from: Karl Henning on July 04, 2023, 06:34:52 AMA couple of weeks ago, I was watching a YouTube video (something like "Five Great Noir movies") The narrated summaries were so formulaic and repetitive I thought, "Either this is an unusually dull person, or AI."
I saw a whole video on it
Definitely becoming a problem.
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on July 04, 2023, 06:48:33 AMThat could explain some of the commentaries that I've seen on youtube. Very robotic sounding (stilted) and no real information.
PD
If it is true, as Elon Musk alleges, that AI is being trained by scraping tweets, perhaps AI should be rebranded AS, artificial stupidity.
Quote from: Mona CharenAs a tech naïf myself, I don't have a prediction about what will happen, but can report my own profoundly mixed feelings. On Twitter, I've made friends, discovered great articles, learned to reevaluate old adversaries, and been amused and enlightened.
On the other hand, the site has arguably played a big role in degrading public discourse. It has rewarded snark and cynicism at the expense of nuance and enabled cyberbullying. Elon Musk has made all of that worse. If it dies or becomes a desiccated husk of its former self, I will miss it but not mourn it.
RTWT
here (https://morningshots.thebulwark.com/p/twitters-last-gasp).
QuoteQuote from: Mona Charen
As a tech naïf myself, I don't have a prediction about what will happen, but can report my own profoundly mixed feelings. On Twitter, I've made friends, discovered great articles, learned to reevaluate old adversaries, and been amused and enlightened.
On the other hand, the site has arguably played a big role in degrading public discourse. It has rewarded snark and cynicism at the expense of nuance and enabled cyberbullying. Elon Musk has made all of that worse. If it dies or becomes a desiccated husk of its former self, I will miss it but not mourn it.
Unfortunately misbehaviour that is not limited to Twitter, but it does seem to be a free haven.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on July 04, 2023, 06:59:01 AMIf it is true, as Elon Musk alleges, that AI is being trained by scraping tweets, perhaps AI should be rebranded AS, artificial stupidity.
Exactly!
I was intending to post precisely this sentiment, except using the acronym AI = Artificial Imbecility.
:laugh:
Still hanging on for the moment, but it seems clear that Twitter's new owner views the platform as a plaything, at best. I've made some good friends via Twitter, but those days seem over, and I'm on it less and less each week.
Oh well.
-Bruce
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-07-05/instagram-unveils-threads-app-a-major-threat-to-musk-s-twitter (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-07-05/instagram-unveils-threads-app-a-major-threat-to-musk-s-twitter)
Quote from: T. D. on July 05, 2023, 07:31:10 PMhttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-07-05/instagram-unveils-threads-app-a-major-threat-to-musk-s-twitter (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-07-05/instagram-unveils-threads-app-a-major-threat-to-musk-s-twitter)
Makes sense, now is any aspiring competitor's chance.
I always found Facebook/Instagram harder to use than Twitter because they don't show you content in chronological order, making them useless for following breaking news stories or local transit alerts etc. Of course Twitter also got pretty useless for that towards the end.
That said, much depends on who ends up using any of the Twitter clones. I'm not really interested in any social network dominated by brands, influencers, celebrities, video content, or even individual journalists for that matter, but I would like a place where I can hear brief text-based updates from government agencies, news organisations, and total nerds with large amounts of useless knowledge. If the Instagram app fulfils that purpose (which I doubt it will) I'm satisfied.
Twitter seems to work again as usual within my volume of use (which might be well within the restriction of a non paying user). It seems there was some general problem last weekend.
Quote from: Que on July 05, 2023, 10:22:55 PMMakes sense, now is any aspiring competitor's chance.
Huh? Meta is one of the largest tech companies in the world - it's hardly an "aspiring competitor".
Anyway, may the best billionaire win!
Quote from: amw on July 05, 2023, 10:53:25 PMI always found Facebook/Instagram harder to use than Twitter because they don't show you content in chronological order, making them useless for following breaking news stories or local transit alerts etc. Of course Twitter also got pretty useless for that towards the end.
That said, much depends on who ends up using any of the Twitter clones. I'm not really interested in any social network dominated by brands, influencers, celebrities, video content, or even individual journalists for that matter, but I would like a place where I can hear brief text-based updates from government agencies, news organisations, and total nerds with large amounts of useless knowledge. If the Instagram app fulfils that purpose (which I doubt it will) I'm satisfied.
Also my general attitude.
Quote from: Jo498 on July 05, 2023, 11:07:41 PMTwitter seems to work again as usual within my volume of use (which might be well within the restriction of a non paying user). It seems there was some general problem last weekend.
Are you using an app or a desktop browser to read it? The restrictions (if they remain) seem to have affected apps, not desktops.
Remember: Musk's offer to buy Twitter was just a big bone-headed troll which backfired. He had no actual plan for operating it.
Threads app passes 30 million downloads in 24 hours.
Quote from: Karl Henning on July 07, 2023, 07:13:27 AMThreads app passes 30 million downloads in 24 hours.
My first choice was to try it, but then it becomes apparent that would involve installing Meta spyware on my phone. I don't have the Facebook Messenger App or the Instagram App and only poke around on the clumsy web version because of the potential access to data on my phone. I wonder if Threads can be used with a browser.
Zuckerberg seems more benign than Musk, but not by a large margin. I read today that Musk is livid and suing because Meta hired lots of former Twitter staff and therefore have access to Twitter's secret sause. It didn't occur to him that's what happens when you fire 2/3 of your staff.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on July 07, 2023, 07:23:09 AMMy first choice was to try it, but then it becomes apparent that would involve installing Meta spyware on my phone. I don't have the Facebook Messenger App or the Instagram App and only poke around on the clumsy web version because of the potential access to data on my phone. I wonder if Threads can be used with a browser.
Zuckerberg seems more benign than Musk, but not by a large margin. I read today that Musk is livid and suing because Meta hired lots of former Twitter staff and therefore have access to Twitter's secret sause. It didn't occur to him that's what happens when you fire 2/3 of your staff.
Not by a large margin, indeed! No web version of Threads as yet.
Quote from: Karl Henning on July 07, 2023, 07:44:42 AMNot by a large margin, indeed! No web version of Threads as yet.
I doubt that Threads is a Twitter killer, but it is probably a Mastodon killer.
This threads thing sounds like a text centric version of instagram.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on July 07, 2023, 07:51:45 AMI doubt that Threads is a Twitter killer, but it is probably a Mastodon killer.
This threads thing sounds like a text centric version of instagram.
I think you're likely right. (I never really used Instagram.) At the outset I dipped my toes in at Mastodon, but I Mastodidn't.
"70 million sign ups on Threads as of this morning." Whatever else, a massively successful rollout. Now, we shall see.
Quote from: Spotted Horses on July 07, 2023, 07:23:09 AMIt didn't occur to him that's what happens when you fire 2/3 of your staff.
It probably did, just as it probably occurred to Zuckerberg and his legal team that they must be careful in what they utilize from former Twitter employees who signed NDAs to receive their severance packages.
My biggest quarrel with Twitter lately is all the bots adding me to lists. I seem to be blocking them before the rubbish actually hits my feed, I guess.
From Forbes: Meta's Threads Is Quickly Getting Better, But It May Already Be Too Late (https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2023/07/16/metas-threads-is-quickly-getting-better-but-it-may-already-be-too-late/?sh=18dec2363ba1)
Quote from: Todd on July 16, 2023, 09:29:59 AMFrom Forbes: Meta's Threads Is Quickly Getting Better, But It May Already Be Too Late (https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2023/07/16/metas-threads-is-quickly-getting-better-but-it-may-already-be-too-late/?sh=18dec2363ba1)
If I use Threads, it won't be until I can do so with a browser. I don't want another Meta app clogging up my phone.
Threads sounds like it removed all the good parts of Twitter (following people you actually want to hear from, joke accounts, anonymous bots that post cat pictures every hour) and replaced all of them with an "algorithm" that populates your feed with corporate accounts.
Meanwhile Elon just tweeted that Twitter is still in negative cash flow with sales down 50%, and has begun actually paying cash to Verified users who gets lots of likes.
FWIW the volume limit seems to be either gone or sufficient for my normal (no blue checkmark) behavior. I think that weekend two weeks ago they had technical problems.
Musk says his cage fight with Zuckerberg will be streamed on X (https://apnews.com/article/elon-musk-mark-zuckerberg-cage-fight-28598abc5be6959f01c1b0079211a360)
I thoroughly enjoy the WWE-ification of everything.
Maybe now I join Twitter X.
Nah.
It seems I will be allowed one Blue Sky invite code every 2 weeks. If that's right, I should get one in the next few days.
So if anyone here would like one, please DM me.
It will be first come first serve, but I'll keep everyone else on file for later codes.
Musk to Shut Down Block Feature on X After Firing Safety Team (https://www.meidastouch.com/news/musk-to-shut-down-block-feature-on-x-after-firing-the-safety-team)
That's it. Deactivating my "X" account fer good. Bye-bye, Musk!
Quote from: Karl Henning on August 18, 2023, 09:53:05 AMMusk to Shut Down Block Feature on X After Firing Safety Team (https://www.meidastouch.com/news/musk-to-shut-down-block-feature-on-x-after-firing-the-safety-team)
That's it. Deactivating my "X" account fer good. Bye-bye, Musk!
This may be the last straw for me, too, especially since I've blocked thousands of worthless accounts.
Incredible. He pays a premium for valuable real estate, then totally trashes it.
In related news, I'm testing out Bluesky, stay tuned.
-Bruce
The latest is the Musk has restored the account of Alex Jones, the sociopath who propagated the theory that the Sandy Hook was a hoax staged by the government and that the parents of murdered children were actors.
On another note, I read that Walmart is the latest company to withdraw from all participation in Twitter (X).
Quote from: Spotted Horses on December 10, 2023, 08:44:49 AMThe latest is the Musk has restored the account of Alex Jones, the sociopath who propagated the theory that the Sandy Hook was a hoax staged by the government and that the parents of murdered children were actors.
Poster child for the "deplorables."
Internal Revenue Code §1212.
So, something about capital loss carryover. Are you suggesting Musk is trying to turn twitter into a capital loss that he can use to save on his taxes?
Quote from: Spotted Horses on December 10, 2023, 09:26:27 AMSo, something about capital loss carryover. Are you suggesting Musk is trying to turn twitter into a capital loss that he can use to save on his taxes?
I do not know his plans for X. I suspect he is fully aware of tax loss provisions, though. It also appears that he is having great good fun with his plaything, which he should.
Elon Musk's luck has finally run out (https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-problems-twitter-x-tesla-gamble-luck-run-out-2023-12)
Quote from: Karl Henning on December 13, 2023, 10:30:32 AMElon Musk's luck has finally run out (https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-problems-twitter-x-tesla-gamble-luck-run-out-2023-12)
Heard this yesterday: "Tesla recalls more than 2m vehicles in US over Autopilot system". Here's one article. It's from the Guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/dec/13/tesla-recall-us-autopilot
PD
Quote from: Karl Henning on December 13, 2023, 10:30:32 AMElon Musk's luck has finally run out (https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-problems-twitter-x-tesla-gamble-luck-run-out-2023-12)
Can luck run out when you are a billionaire? Musk has done everything wrong running
𝕏 formely knows as Twitter and it is still a thing. If anything, he has very successfully transformed the platform into a far-right echo chamber. Even Alex Jones is back!
Quote from: 71 dB on December 14, 2023, 07:40:26 AMCan luck run out when you are a billionaire?
When you mortgage yourself to the teeth to buy a social media platform, an asset which you then steadily erode (apparently because you aren't the "genius businessman" which you've billed yourself as, and atop that degrade the futuristic auto company whereof mythology mistakenly nominates you the inventor, your luck becomes a matter of paper-thin anecdote.
Quote from: Karl Henning on December 14, 2023, 07:55:34 AMWhen you mortgage yourself to the teeth to buy a social media platform, an asset which you then steadily erode (apparently because you aren't the "genius businessman" which you've billed yourself as, and atop that degrade the futuristic auto company whereof mythology mistakenly nominates you the inventor, your luck becomes a matter of paper-thin anecdote.
Rich people have the tendency of being fine even in bad situations. They have options and opportunities not available for normal people. Elon Musk is not in danger of starving or not having a roof above his head, is he? He is not going anywhere. We will be listening to his weird opinions and ideas the rest of our lives...
Quote from: 71 dB on December 14, 2023, 02:37:19 PMRich people have the tendency of being fine even in bad situations. They have options and opportunities not available for normal people. Elon Musk is not in danger of starving or not having a roof above his head, is he? He is not going anywhere. We will be listening to his weird opinions and ideas the rest of our lives...
Oh, in that regard, no, the Fat Cat is in no danger of thinning.
App That Creates Fake Nudes For Blackmail Allowed to Advertise on X (https://www.meidastouch.com/news/app-that-creates-fake-nudes-for-blackmail-allowed-to-advertise-on-x)
I'd completely forgotten about Tribel.
Brazilian Court Opens Investigation Into Elon Musk (https://www.meidastouch.com/news/brazilian-court-opens-investigation-into-elon-musk)