Europe at War

[Florestan]

Yes, you can list some terrifying examples, but I am also so naive to think, that women generally are more species-preserving than men - maybe for natural reasons.

Natural reasons dictate that it takes both women and men to preserve the species. 

[Florestan]

It's no accident where the women in that photo come from.

Well, three of them come from the same region where Margarita Simonyan or the late Daria Dugina preach(ed) violence and war, even nuclear war.

[Florestan]

I'm naive enough to se humans as more than bare animals.

Were all those painters, sculptors and writers who celebrated feminine beauty bare animals?

Am I a bare animal for suggesting that Sana Marin is younger and more attractive than Ursula von der Leyen? (that the former is younger than the latter is not even a matter of contention, it's a fact; I concede that some people are rather attracted to older women, though. ) Actually, imho the best of the lot is the Estonian.

[Todd]

I mean keeps us alive mentally for the short time we live, of course not physically where anything can happen.

Not really.  Some people are prone to wishful thinking, some not.  What applies to you does not apply to everyone.

Yes, you can list some terrifying examples, but I am also so naive to think, that women generally are more species-preserving than men - maybe for natural reasons.

This is the very definition of sexism.  It is also questionable.

Well, three of them come from the same region where Margarita Simonyan or the late Daria Dugina preach(ed) violence and war, even nuclear war.

It's cynical stagecraft, though somewhat sophomoric in nature.  For proper cynical stagecraft, see any SOTU address since the early 80s. 

[Madiel]

Well, three of them come from the same region where Margarita Simonyan or the late Daria Dugina preach(ed) violence and war, even nuclear war.

You're kidding. You seriously think that Russia and the Nordic countries are "the same region" culturally?

Go back to the Ottoman Empire then, Andrei.

[Florestan]

You're kidding. You seriously think that Russia and Scandinavia are "the same region" culturally?

You wrote "where the women in that photo come from". You didn't specify "culturally". Geographically speaking, they are all in close proximity with Russia --- and Estonia and Finland are not even part of Scandinavia, which technically speaking means only Norway and Sweden.

Go back to the Ottoman Empire then, Andrei.

Actually, we do have more in common with the culture of the Ottoman Empire (which in its own way and region was just as cosmopolitan as the Austrian Empire and in some respects even more) than with the culture of Scandinavia --- and I regard it as a positive thing. 

[prémont]

Were all those painters, sculptors and writers who celebrated feminine beauty bare animals?

Am I a bare animal for suggesting that Sana Marin is younger and more attractive than Ursula von der Leyen? (that the former is younger than the latter is not even a matter of contention, it's a fact; I concede that some people are rather attracted to older women, though. ) Actually, imho the best of the lot is the Estonian.

Your objection is besides the point. I don't deny that we are animals. But I suppose that we are more than that.

But of course, if we only obey our animal instincts we are nothing but animals.

[Florestan]

Your objection is besides the point.

I raised no objection. I just asked two questions --- which you declined to answer. 

[prémont]

Not really.  Some people are prone to wishful thinking, some not.  What applies to you does not apply to everyone.

Yes. many people are more cynical. They are the ones who ruin it for the rest of us.

This is the very definition of sexism.  It is also questionable.

I suppose sexism is the tendency to point to - or even invent - different characteristics of the sexes. But some of these different characteristics may have positive implications.

[prémont]

I raised no objection. I just asked two questions --- which you declined to answer. 

Read between the lines.

[Todd]

I suppose sexism is the tendency to point to - or ven invent - different characteristics of the sexes. But some of these different characteristics may have positive implications.

This is questionable as well, particularly if you invent some traits that somehow translate into supposedly preferable policy choices if certain impossible conditions are met.  Basically, you are putting women on a pedestal, which is a grievous mistake.

[Madiel]

You wrote "where the women in that photo come from". You didn't specify "culturally". Geographically speaking, they are all in close proximity with Russia --- and Estonia and Finland are not even part of Scandinavia, which technically speaking means only Norway and Sweden.

Actually, we do have more in common with the culture of the Ottoman Empire (which in its own way and region was just as cosmopolitan as the Austrian Empire and in some respects even more) than with the culture of Scandinavia --- and I regard it as a positive thing. 

I edited to Nordic countries to get past the different meaning of "Scandinavia" in different languages.

But whatever, you're clearly in one of THOSE moods and the conversation is unproductive.

[Karl Henning]

Men place too much importance on women's appearance.

Truth.

[Florestan]

I edited to Nordic countries to get past the different meaning of "Scandinavia" in different languages.

But whatever, you're clearly in one of THOSE moods and the conversation is unproductive.

I missed your edit, it was getting late in Eflak and I went to sleep.

Of course there are enormous cultural differences between Russia  and the Nordic countries but that wasn't the issue. The issue was the suggestion that if you put women in power instead of men the world would be more peaceful and less violent. I disagree but let's not derail the thread.

[Gurn Blanston]

I should have thought that when it comes to history, "can be" equals "is" (as in, Elisabeth I can be as ruthless as Henry VIII), but nevertheless I'll reformulate it : history, ever since it began to be recorded up until nowadays, has been full of women who were just as violent, ruthless and bellicose as men.

Can't disagree with that: I present Catherine the Great as an example.  Women may be more thoughtful in the application of brutality but that is not indicative of the reserve of it they would happily bring to bear once the decision is made.

 

[Todd]

We came, we saw, he died.

The he being Mr Gaddafi. 

Women are quite capable of bloodlust and viciousness on par with men.  The women selected for the cynical photo-op regarding sanctions all have one thing in common: they are personages in power in ineffectual entities.  Put women in charge of great powers, with their scope and reach and proclivity for relying on militarism to resolve conflict, and missiles will fly.

[Todd]

A timely article from BBC on this topic (I believe this may be a case of "intersectionality", to use academic terminology): Ukraine war: Merkel says she lacked power to influence Putin

Merkel was head of a powerful country.  This just demonstrates the silliness of the photo-op.

Der Spiegel has the full published interview with Ms Merkel.

[Florestan]

Put women in charge of great powers, with their scope and reach and proclivity for relying on militarism to resolve conflict, and missiles will fly.

This.

[prémont]

Put women in charge of great powers, with their scope and reach and proclivity for relying on militarism to resolve conflict, and missiles will fly.

Sexism .. or not?

[Karl Henning]

Sexism .. or not?

trolling, certainly.