Of course Telemann is a big issue in my collection, and I find that a few of the last recordings I bought are stunning in performance and sound. Credit must go to the best Musique de Table I ever heard, and that is rather a understatement as there ever was.
And the second instalment of the Complete Overtures on Brilliant by the fine Collegium Instrumentale Brugense, under their new conductor Patrick Peire. Also a stunning release. The first volume was good, but this second volume is even better in its sheer musicality.
Please add your favourites, present or from the past, and make this a fine lively Telemann thread.
Harry
Some more favourites
From the Don/Telemann music library:
Magnificat in C major - Helbich/CPO
Suites/Concertos - Collegium Musicum 90/Chandos
Complete Essercizii Musici - Camerata Koln/DHM (4cds)
Orpheus - Jacobs/Harmonia Mundi (2cds)
Oratorio "Give Thanks to the Lord" and Serenata "You Hale and Hearty Guard" - Schneider/CPO (2cds)
"Don Quichotte" - Schneider/CPO
"Der neuimodische Liebhaber Damon" - Schneider/CPO (3cds)
Cantatas Vols. 1 and 2 and 3 - Ensemble Barocco Padovano Sans Souci/Dynamic
"La Changeante" Vol. 1/Collegium Musicum 90/Chandos
Cantatas TWV 4:18 & 2:2 - Max/CPO
Die Auferstehung und Himmelfahrt Jesu - Max/Capriccio
Cornett Cantatas - Remy/CPO
Christmas Oratorio and Cantatas - Remy/CPO
Der Tag des Gerichts - Max/Capriccio
Organ Works - Baumgratz/MDG
Die Donner-Ode - Collegium Musicum 90/Chandos
Suites - Pinnock/Archiv
Suites - Freiburg Baroque Orchestra/DHM
Festive Cantatas - Stotzel/Hanssler Classics
Suites - Schneider/DHM
Hamburger Admiralitatsmusik 1723 - Helbich/CPO (2cds)
Missa Brevis/Psalm 71 - Max/Capriccio
It's been quite a few years since I acquired or lsitened to any Telemann discs, but I have the above if the mood changes.
Surprisingly I don't have any dedicated Telemann disc. :-\
Quote from: Don on April 15, 2007, 11:42:56 AM
From the Don/Telemann music library:
Magnificat in C major - Helbich/CPO
Suites/Concertos - Collegium Musicum 90/Chandos
Complete Essercizii Musici - Camerata Koln/DHM (4cds)
Orpheus - Jacobs/Harmonia Mundi (2cds)
Oratorio "Give Thanks to the Lord" and Serenata "You Hale and Hearty Guard" - Schneider/CPO (2cds)
"Don Quichotte" - Schneider/CPO
"Der neuimodische Liebhaber Damon" - Schneider/CPO (3cds)
Cantatas Vols. 1 and 2 and 3 - Ensemble Barocco Padovano Sans Souci/Dynamic
"La Changeante" Vol. 1/Collegium Musicum 90/Chandos
Cantatas TWV 4:18 & 2:2 - Max/CPO
Die Auferstehung und Himmelfahrt Jesu - Max/Capriccio
Cornett Cantatas - Remy/CPO
Christmas Oratorio and Cantatas - Remy/CPO
Der Tag des Gerichts - Max/Capriccio
Organ Works - Baumgratz/MDG
Die Donner-Ode - Collegium Musicum 90/Chandos
Suites - Pinnock/Archiv
Suites - Freiburg Baroque Orchestra/DHM
Festive Cantatas - Stotzel/Hanssler Classics
Suites - Schneider/DHM
Hamburger Admiralitatsmusik 1723 - Helbich/CPO (2cds)
Missa Brevis/Psalm 71 - Max/Capriccio
It's been quite a few years since I acquired or lsitened to any Telemann discs, but I have the above if the mood changes.
Fine list Don, thanks! :)
Quote from: 71 dB on April 15, 2007, 11:57:54 AM
Surprisingly I don't have any dedicated Telemann disc. :-\
Well that is a great surprise for me, knowing that you love the baroque era very much.
Harry - I'm up to about two dozen Telemann discs at this point - listed below; so far, I don't have that many 'duplicates' - his output was so tremendous (a number of good threads on the old forum) - check out the TWV Catalog (http://www.uquebec.ca/musique/catal/telemann/telgp.html) - my next project is to just go over my current GPT discs to determine which of these TWV numbers that I own currently to help w/ further purchases; do have some more Cantatas comin' in the mail soon (discussed on the non-Bach Cantata thread).
Looking forward to seeing CDs owned and those recommended by others - :D
Cantatas, Festive - Stotzel et al - Hanssler (98.179) - 1 CD
Chalumeau Concertos - Standage et al - Chandos (0593) - 1 CD
Chamber Music - Koopman-Amsterdam - Erato (94355-2) - 1 CD
Christmas Cantatas - Remy et al - CPO (999 515-2) - 1 CD
Concertos-Sonatas - Berliner Barock Solisten - DG (576102) - 1 CD
Double/Triple Concerti - Hogwood w/ AAM - L'Oiseau (411 949-2) - 1 CD
Flute Quartets - Goebel w/ MAKoln - Arch Prod (4283-02) - 1 CD
Horn Concertos - Baumann w/ Acad SMF - Philips (412 226-2) - 1 CD
Oboe Concertos (V.1) - Francis w/ London - Regis (1118) - 1 CD
Oboe Concertos (V.2) - Francis w/ London - Regis (1119) - 1 CD
Oboe Sonatas - Goodwin et al - Harmonia Mundi (907 152) - 1 CD
Orchestral Suites - Pinnock w/ Engl Concert - DG (437 558-2) - 1 CD
Overtures/Suites - Pinnock w/ Engl Concert - Archiv Prod (103139) - 1 CD
Paris Quartets - Hazelzet-Huggett - Virgin X2 (61812 2) - 2 CD
Passions Oratorium - Vokal Ensemble - Brilliant (99521) - 2 CD
Sonatas Metodiche - Bruggen et al - Sony (63182-2) - 2 CD
Tafelmusik - Baudet-Musica Amphion - Brilliant (92177) - 4 CD
Violin Fantasias - Manze - Harmonia Mundi (907137) - 1 CD
Woodwind Concertos - Camerata Koln - H. Mundi (77367 2) - 1 CD
As expected from you my friend a excellent list, and I see many of which i also have.
Listening at this moment to the Musique de Table, and boy what wonderful music that is. :)
I have Telemann's music on these discs:
The Art of the Baroque Trumpet, Vol. 1 - Trumpet Concerto No. 1 in D Major (Naxos)
The Art of the Baroque Trumpet, Vol. 4 - Trumpet Concerto No. 2 in D Major (Naxos)
2 Violins + 1 Guitar - Trio Sonata in A Minor (Naxos)
Baroque Trio Sonatas - Trio Sonatas in D minor & G Major (Naxos)
What I have from Telemann:
Oboe Concertos by Han de Vries (with Albinoni).
Several Concertos by the Musica Antiqua Köln conducted by Goebel.
Tafelmusik, by the Florilegium.
Paris Quartets, by the Florilegium.
Suites and Concertos by Brüggen, Doctor, Friedrich Tilegant.
Cantatas "Der Herr is König", "Die Donnerode" by Hermann Max.
.
Quote from: val on April 16, 2007, 04:33:27 AM
What I have from Telemann:
Oboe Concertos by Han de Vries (with Albinoni).
Several Concertos by the Musica Antiqua Köln conducted by Goebel.
Tafelmusik, by the Florilegium.
Paris Quartets, by the Florilegium.
Suites and Concertos by Brüggen, Doctor, Friedrich Tilegant.
Cantatas "Der Herr is König", "Die Donnerode" by Hermann Max.
I would be interested what your thoughts are about the Tafelmusic! :)
QuoteHarry
I would be interested what your thoughts are about the Tafelmusic!
Some of the overtures or suites and concertos are beautiful. But the complete work is too long and I see no relation between the different works that are included in each of the three parts. That is why I prefer to have only excerpts when, before, in LP, I had the complete work with Goebel. The recording I mentioned before, of Florilegium, includes the nice suite in E minor, the Quartets in G major and D minor (with a very beautiful Largo) and the Trio in E flat major.
Quote from: val on April 17, 2007, 01:07:39 AM
Some of the overtures or suites and concertos are beautiful. But the complete work is too long and I see no relation between the different works that are included in each of the three parts. That is why I prefer to have only excerpts when, before, in LP, I had the complete work with Goebel. The recording I mentioned before, of Florilegium, includes the nice suite in E minor, the Quartets in G major and D minor (with a very beautiful Largo) and the Trio in E flat major.
Thanks! :)
Quote from: D Minor on April 16, 2007, 04:36:41 AM
.
I have one more recording than you ;D
Telemann is the most boring composer, ever.
None of his music was meant to be listened to but serve, merely, as background music.
So there >:D
Quote from: Hector on April 17, 2007, 04:22:10 AM
I have one more recording than you ;D
Telemann is the most boring composer, ever.
None of his music was meant to be listened to but serve, merely, as background music.
So there >:D
Thank you for this interesting piece of information dear Hector.
Quote from: Harry on April 17, 2007, 04:39:42 AM
Thank you for this interesting piece of information dear Hector.
No, no, let me thank you for the perceptive in-depth analysis of the composer's music that almost persuaded me to rush out and buy a disc of his Toffeemuzak! >:D
Quote from: Hector on April 17, 2007, 04:22:10 AM
Telemann is the most boring composer, ever.
I heard worst, but i'm definitely not in a rush to buy recordings of his music. I have the Tafelmusik (Telemann stated this collection would have made him famous 'some day', from which i extrapolate he put a little more craft into it then usual), and i think that's shall suffice.
Quote from: Hector on April 17, 2007, 04:22:10 AM
Telemann is the most boring composer, ever.
None of his music was meant to be listened to but serve, merely, as background music.
So there >:D
I am probably wrong but I have found Telemann a bit boring baroque composer based on the few works I have heard. Somehow I fail to see much edge, colour, ideas or originality in his music. It's like averaged baroque music. But then again I haven't heard much and his cantatas must be interesting... 0:)
- G.P. Telemann and Musical Diplomacy -
Rarely acknowledged today is the extent to which a number of German speaking composers of the Baroque achieved success over much of Europe between around 1730 and 1740 by writing remarkable chamber works of great sophistication which incorporated stylistic and other influences that were French, Italian and others. These were as well received in German speaking lands as elsewhere and some of the finest examples were published and admired in Paris, Italy etc.
G.P. Telemann (1681-1767) was involved in this development during much of this decade. This use by Telemann and others of what were to him foreign musical traditions under the umbrella of baroque music was, however, to be short lived. By around 1740 more conservative elements within European music wanted an end to baroque music as a whole and of this trend to use different national and regional traditions. So this short period of respecting differences, using and incorporating the musical idioms of different European nations and regions within one's own music, was finally ended.
(Bach's great familiarity with the music of Italy and France at this time is another example of this short lived development. Telemann (a personal friend of JS Bach) went even further, being published in this type of music even beyond his own country).
Here are some typical examples, both from little known chamber works of Telemann. Published in Germany, then in Italy and France by around 1738.
1. G.P. Telemann (1681-1767)
Sonata for Chamber Ensemble in A Major
1st Movement
'Soave'
TWV 43/1
(c.1738)
http://www.mediafire.com/?mnwryntjzgt
2. G.P. Telemann (1681-1767)
Suite for Chamber Ensemble in E Minor
4th Movement
(c. 1732)
http://www.mediafire.com/?yqdnzzdiyn0
3. And a final example -
G.P. Telemann (1681-1767)
Suite for Chamber Ensemble in E Minor
6th Movement
(c.1732)
http://www.mediafire.com/?gifynzbn3ok
Telemann has sooo much music, and sooo many cds, yet I am never at a loss for finding some nice minor key work of his that leaves me satisfied.
Quote from: Don on April 15, 2007, 11:42:56 AM
. . . It's been quite a few years since I acquired or lsitened to any Telemann discs, but I have the above if the mood changes.
That's quite the store against a change in mood :)
I wonder why Don's library is so large if he doesn't care for the composer? As a just in case? Or were they sent to him hoping for a review? since you know he is a critic.
Don may be coming to a watefront near me . . . if I catch his ear, I'll ask about his extensive Telemann collection.
He has more Telemann than I have Elgar! :o
Hi there,
I wonder if anyone can help. I have this CD of Telemann's complete Trio sonatas for violin, flute and BC and also Oboe, recorder and BC. It is on a double CD on the Brilliant Classics label and the performers are Biondi and Tripla Concordia...
Does anyone else have it? If you do or you have the following Trio Sonata by Telemann - TWV 42 d10 could you please tell me what key it is in? I got this CD from a friend and I found the info on Amazon as well as 2 other sites but it says it is in D Major but just listen to it. It is clearly in a minor key.
Maybe you know why it is misnamed. Did Telemann do things like this? Maybe you have a CD booklet explaining. I love the music of Telemann.
A bit of a curiosity (or a definition of anal :) )
Thanks!
Jai ;)
Quote from: Jaime B on September 10, 2009, 01:04:00 AM
Hi there,
I wonder if anyone can help. I have this CD of Telemann's complete Trio sonatas for violin, flute and BC and also Oboe, recorder and BC. It is on a double CD on the Brilliant Classics label and the performers are Biondi and Tripla Concordia...
Does anyone else have it? If you do or you have the following Trio Sonata by Telemann - TWV 42 d10 could you please tell me what key it is in? I got this CD from a friend and I found the info on Amazon as well as 2 other sites but it says it is in D Major but just listen to it. It is clearly in a minor key.
Maybe you know why it is misnamed. Did Telemann do things like this? Maybe you have a CD booklet explaining. I love the music of Telemann.
A bit of a curiosity (or a definition of anal :) )
Thanks!
Jai ;)
Jaime,
I don't have the disk, but I can tell you for sure that it is in d minor. It is, in fact, the 10th trio sonata in d minor to be cataloged by that author. Thus the name 'd10'. It really IS as simple as that. :)
8)
OK cool. Thanks for your help and now I have learned something more about Georg Philipp too ;)
Quote from: Coopmv on December 30, 2010, 03:18:04 PM
Now playing CD1 from this set, which arrived a few weeks ago from across the pond for a first listen ...
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51PptHq-a8L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Quote from: Brian on December 30, 2010, 03:39:02 PM
What'd you think, Stuart? I am sensing, deep within me, the unexpected beginnings of a baroque music exploration period.
Quote from: Coopmv on December 30, 2010, 04:06:19 PM
This is a 2010 recording. Freiburger Barockorchester is not exactly unknown to me since I have a few other CD's and a Brandenburg Concertos DVD by them. The performance was polished with tempi that were just right (I thought their BC were a tad fast). There is an excellent balance between youthful exuberance and virtuosity.
Quote from: SonicMan on December 30, 2010, 04:32:12 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61XQ91wadIL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Hi Stuart - please let us know what you think of this HM set? I have the Brilliant 4-CD box inserted above and enjoy - Dave :D
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on December 30, 2010, 04:59:37 PM
Hi, Sonic. I don't know if you have noticed this re-release:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51J5aEAayTL._SS350_.jpg)
$20.82 for the complete 4-CD set on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Telemann-Tafelmusik/dp/B00469IGHA/ref=tmm_other_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1293760140&sr=8-2)... One of the best recordings from Musica Antiqua Köln. Highly recommended is not to say enough. :)
Quote from: SonicMan on December 30, 2010, 05:25:18 PM
Stuart - yes, the group that you quote above - excellent performances - :)
Antonie - you Devil - ;) ;D One of my favorite groups! Immediately put in an order to the Amazon US MP - just $14 + S/H - I know that this will be GREAT! Must compare w/ my other recording box - thanks for bringing this to my attention - Dave :)
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on December 31, 2010, 02:51:31 AM
Great, Dave! I also love MAK in this repertoire.
The Tafelmusik is one of my favorite Baroque compositions and I probably have too much versions, but this one and Hünteler are my favorites.
Could you guys please drop me a line after you've figured out a winner amongst these recordings of Tafelmusik? :) :)
Because I don't think I'm ready for multiple recordings yet.... 8) Maybe it will grow on me after the 1st? :)
Q
on vinyl Tafelmusik Concerto Amsterdam/Brüggen Telefunken, 6 discs
Der Getreue Musikmeister Würzburger Bach-Chor, Josef Ulsamer DGG/Archive 5 discs
Cantatas Wo sol ich fliehen hin, Alein Gott in der Höh' sei Ehr' Erato/EMI
Don Quixote Suite, Violin Concerto Marco Polo
and lurking somewhere a Vox LP of oboe sonatas "played by" Theodore and Dorothy Schulze - genuinely awful.
CD's the wind concerto disc with Musica Antiqua Köln/Goebel is a recommendation - lots of variety, including a concerto for 2 Chalumeaux
trumpet concertos on Nimbus by John Wallace with others, English String Orch., Boughton.
- has a lot of unrelieved D-Major
and an opera "Gedulige Socrates, Der" 4 discs on Hungaroton 12 957-60
Quote from: Que on January 01, 2011, 03:01:40 AM
Could you guys please drop me a line after you've figured out a winner amongst these recordings of Tafelmusik? :) :)
Because I don't think I'm ready for multiple recordings yet.... 8) Maybe it will grow on me after the 1st? :)
Q
So, which recording of
Tafelmusik should I get? :)
Q
Quote from: Que on January 04, 2011, 10:28:25 PM
So, which recording of Tafelmusik should I get? :)
Q
IMO Musica Antiqua Köln (Archiv) deliver the canonical version of this collection, Q. If I had to choose just one interpretation would be that one, although -as I said before- I have another favorite: Konrad Hünteler and the Camerata of the 18th Century (MDG), less virtuosistic and slower paced than Goebel, but equally rewarding... But I repeat: go with Goebel, you will love those performances.
Anyway, I have not listened to the Freiburger Baroque Orchestra and I don't know if I will do it very soon because I have another three complete versions of this music: Brüggen/Concerto Amsterdam (Teldec), Harnoncourt/Concentus Musicus Wien (Teldec) and Belder/Musica Amphion (Brilliant Classics). All of them have their merits, even Brüggen, a recording from the 60's, but Goebel (never my favorite in Bach) has the edge here. :)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61MYFK4C3SL._SL500_AA300_.gif)
Now:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51J5aEAayTL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
8)
Does anyone know what is happening with the Brilliant "complete overtures" set? It seems to have stopped well short of complete.
Does anyone know a place online from where I can download the text to Brockes Passion? (A PDF, preferably, but a Word document will do also.) (Wikipedia does not even have an article on the work!)
Quote from: Antoine Marchand on March 05, 2011, 01:37:27 PM
(http://static.letsbuyit.com/filer/images/uk/products/original/254/31/telemann-complete-tafelmusik-freiburger-barockorchestermullejansvon-der-goltz-25431206.jpeg)
Having listened to two times the complete Tafelmusik by the Freiburger Barockorchester, I can report this is a thoroughly rewarding set. I would really like to have some time to do some comparative listening, but unfortunately it is not possible. I especially liked what I would call an "old taste", a sort of old HIP sobriety and fervour, mixed with some generous doses of flexibility and spontaneity. It is like that old version by Brüggen and his Concerto Amsterdam, but wisely corrected. IMO, one of the great achievements of the Freiburgers, not always one of my preferred Baroque ensembles. Highly recommended! :)
I have done and still will do some comparative sampling. Sofar it's already clear that the final contest will be between Musica Antique Köln and the Freiburger Barokorchester.
Thanks for the comments. :)
Q
Quote from: Que on March 05, 2011, 10:43:04 PM
I have done and still will do some comparative sampling. So far it's already clear that the final contest will be between Musica Antique Köln and the Freiburger Barokorchester.
Thanks for the comments. :)
Q - I've ended up owning both the sets you're considering above (gave away my Brilliant one to a friend as a gift) - love each one, so not an easy decision if you just want a single collection - good luck in your choice(s) - Dave :D
Ok, Telemann experts, I have a question for you. I have heard good portions of his Tafelmusik (Brilliant) and Paris Quartets (Virgin), as well as this disc, which is probably my favorite of the three recordings:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Qntf4PZJL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Telemann strikes me as a skilled craftsman of pleasant works, but ultimately nothing particularly individual or memorable. I don't know much about him other than that he was long-lived, prolific, and wedded various national styles in his music. What sets him apart? What specifically should I be listening for? What are his compositional hallmarks?
BOY, a Telemann thread started back in 2007 w/ only 2 pages - well, I've added to my collection since my post on the first page and still enjoy his music - not sure why he is so neglected in general and in the forum - boring? Maybe, however, he was the MOST prolific composer of his era, well respected, and considered first for the job in Leipzig that was finally given to their 3rd choice, i.e. JS Bach.
Not sure who might be able to help, but I keep my Telemann TWV numbers on a Google Drive document just to make sure that I don't duplicate compositions already owned - not an easy task! :)
Just purchased the 2-disc set shown below - first CD of 'Suites' & second of 'Concertos'; however, no TWV numbers are listed, so cannot enter them into my record; my reference at THIS SITE (http://www.uquebec.ca/musique/catal/telemann/telgp.html), but have been unable to match the works w/ ones in the catalog (usually look at the names of the movements) - I'll be checking again but if anyone has figured this disc out relative to the numbers then please respond - this is claimed to be a 'World Premiere Recording' (dated 1999) for what that is worth?
These 2 discs have only two performers, i.e. Inderinuhle on the oboe & Brizi on harpsichord or organ, so just not sure how these fit into the catalog? A larger image shows the individual works & their movement names - thanks for any help - Dave :)
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-HcGWtBn/0/O/TelemannSuitesConcs.jpg)
(http://giradman.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-mc4JmFC/0/O/TelemannSuitesConcs2.jpg)
Boy, that's a tough one, Dave. Even the New Grove doesn't list them all! It lists a bunch under TWV 41:
Sonatas for one instrument and continuo, TWV41
Six sonates (g, D, b, G, a, A), vn, bc (Frankfurt, 1715, 2/c1725–6)
Kleine Cammer-Music, bestehend aus VI Partien (B , G, c, g, e, E ), fl/ob/vn, bc, or solo kbd (Frankfurt, 1716, 2/1728)
Sei suonatine (A, B , D, G, E, F), vn, bc (Frankfurt, 1718)
[6] Sonate metodiche (g, A, e, D, a, G), fl/vn, bc (Hamburg, 1728); T i
Polonoise (D), fl/vn, bc; Pastourelle (D), tr, bc; L'hiver (d), tr, bc; Niaise (E), tr, bc; Pastorale (E), fl/other tr, bc; Capriccio (G), fl, bc; Ouverture (g), ob/vn, bc; Sonata da chiesa, fl/ob/vn, bc; Sinfonie ... à la françoise (b), fl/vn, bc; 17 other pieces; all in Der getreue Music-Meister (Hamburg, 1728–9)
[6] Neue Sonatinen (e, c, D. G, a, E), 4 for fl/vn, bc or solo kbd, 2 for rec/bn/vc, bc or solo kbd (Hamburg, 1730/31) [only 1 inst pt extant]
Continuation des sonates méthodiques (b, c, E, B , d, C), fl/vn, bc (Hamburg, 1732); T i
Sonata (b), fl, bc; Sonata (A), vn, bc; Sonata (g), ob, bc: all in Musique de table (Hamburg, 1733), ed. in DDT, lxi–lxii (1927); T xii–xiv
XII solos (F, e, A, C, g, D, d, G, b, E, a, f ), vn/fl, bc (Hamburg, 1734), ed. in RRMBE, lxxi (1994)
10 sonatas in Essercizii musici (Hamburg, 1740): nos. 1, 7 (F, A), vn, bc; 2, 8 (D, G), fl, bc; 3, 9 (a, e), va da gamba, bc; 4, 10 (d, C), rec, bc; 5, 11 (B , e), ob, bc
38 other solo sonatas, incl. 24 doubtful or spurious
A place that I've found very helpful for some composers, like CPE Bach, is Wikipedia. But their Telemann article needs a lot of work yet. Any composer you look up there, just find the link to "List of Compositions" and you can find a lot of info (on others).
Sorry. :-\
8)
Hi Gurn - well, this morning (after a good night's sleep!), I return to the TWV Catalog HERE (http://www.uquebec.ca/musique/catal/telemann/telgp.html#Chambre) and found all 12 Suites & Concertos (Concerts) under this category: 42. Musique de chambre pour 2 instruments avec basse continue - these are described as chamber works for 2 instruments & B.C. - I guess that the organ could count as an instrument & basso continuo, although the keyboardist uses harpsichord on some of these pieces.
For those interested, below is a 'match up' of the suite & concerto numbers w/ those in the TWV catalog. Amazingly, when I when to my Google Drive document tracking my collection, none of these were duplicated! GPT certainly wrote a LOT of music! :)
Suites (No. & TWV correlation)
1=42:G4, 2=42:B2, 3=42:h2, 4=42:E2, 5=42:a3, 6=42:d3
Concertos (No. & TWV correlation)
1=42:D6, 2=42:g2, 3=42:A3, 4=42:e3, 5=42:h1, 6=42:a2
Nice to see the Telemann thread return. I've been excited to hear this new aquistion to my Telemann collection, an opera seria completely new to me:
[asin]B007FGQ15A[/asin]
8)
*bump*
I am also a bit astounded that the Telemann thread is so small (2 pages) and with more than two years having passed since the last post. Telemann's music seems to suffer from having a reputation of being superfluous, but I have to heartily disagree as I have found great pleasure in its soundscape. Why do you think Telemann get so little attention here? Not modern enough.... ;)
Last year I had the great pleasure of traversing Ricercar Consort's performances of Les plaisirs de la table, which turned out to be a revelation. These discs are fantastic and would certainly serve as a powerful and influential gateway to Telemann's music. Highly recommended!
[asin] B001BBSEUA[/asin]
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61o4ztqKMGL.jpg)
Lately I have been digging into Brilliant Classics' composer set, which is very good and quite affordable for a Telemann "boost".
Review MusicWeb: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/June11/Telemann_94104.htm
(Only 30 euros on Amazon.de (http://www.amazon.de/Telemann-Edition-Georg-Philipp/dp/B004D3BPH2/ref=pd_sim_sbs_m_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1DM596KW020JZM8GPMQD))
[asin] B004D3BPH2[/asin]
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71sr6AfAabL._SL1009_.jpg)
It seems as if Brilliant Classics now has expanded its previous Telemann edition (from 29 to 50 cds) and is releasing it at the end of March in the US! It is already available in Germany (http://www.amazon.de/Telemann-Various/dp/B00RBXAI5Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1425243917&sr=8-1&keywords=B00RBXAI5Q) (55 euros).
Booklet with contents (http://www.brilliantclassics.com/media/1121202/95150-TELEMANN-Edition-COMPLETE-Liner-Notes-Sung-Texts-Download.pdf).
[asin] B00RBXAI5Q[/asin]
Unboxing (in German)
https://www.youtube.com/v/-uhVmvbzfcA
Telemann: Concertos for Woodwind Instruments Camerata Köln
Continuing my Telemann day with the woodwind concertos. Revisiting and sampling DHM's mini-box which I have found very rewarding in the past. The Camerata Köln provides a warm and vivid performance in this recording.
[asin] B000026H9H[/asin]
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51SK8lfQHaL.jpg)
from this great set:
[asin] B00AC4D6C8[/asin]
Hi Peter - since my post back in 2007 when I had about 2 dozen Telemann discs, I now have just over 50 - I keep tract of them on Google Drive, just so when an interesting one appears, especially w/ period instruments, I closely check those TWV numbers - ;) BTW - have you looked @ that catalog? GPT was considered the most prolific composer of ALL time, so there is plenty to enjoy! He was also the 'most famous' composer in Germany @ back then, respected much above JS Bach - in fact, Telemann was the 'first choice' for the job in Leipzig, Graupner the second choice, and then Bach was reluctantly given the position - funny how perceptions have changed. Dave :)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on March 01, 2015, 02:09:45 PM
Hi Peter - since my post back in 2007 when I had about 2 dozen Telemann discs, I now have just over 50 - I keep tract of them on Google Drive, just so when an interesting one appears, especially w/ period instruments, I closely check those TWV numbers - ;) BTW - have you looked @ that catalog? GPT was considered the most prolific composer of ALL time, so there is plenty to enjoy! He was also the 'most famous' composer in Germany @ back then, respected much above JS Bach - in fact, Telemann was the 'first choice' for the job in Leipzig, Graupner the second choice, and then Bach was reluctantly given the position - funny how perceptions have changed. Dave :)
True! The number of recordings seems to have increased drastically (as well as your collection) as I perceive a renewed interest in these works. I find them both interesting and enjoyable. The Telemann/Graupner/Bach story definitely leaves room for thought.... 0:)
I wonder how the future will perceive our own fashionable music choices?
Telemann: Der Getrue Music-Meister III Camerata Köln/Schneider
Great stuff! I especially like the incredible variety of music included in the "lessons". I have listened to these before, but decided to listen to the third section (out of five). I presume these were written for Telemann's students (I need to do some research)? It is an anthology of pieces ranging from cantatas to solo pieces. A very intimate and charming selection of music. Anybody else that have taken fancy to the Music-Meister works? The Camerata Köln and the soloists seem to be doing a great job in these performances. However, is there any specific rendition of Music-Meister you would recommend?
(http://fagot.pbworks.com/f/1415811605/George%20Philipp%20Telemann_%20_Der%20Getreue%20Music%20Meister_%20(1728).jpg)
from:
[asin] B00AC4D6C8[/asin]
Dave,
Could you recommend any recordings with Telemann's cantatas? :)
Quote from: Moonfish on March 01, 2015, 10:51:36 PM
Dave,
Could you recommend any recordings with Telemann's cantatas? :)
Hi
Peter - I have only about a half dozen discs of
GPT's vocal works, so far from an expert, and I've not listened to these recordings in a while - some are shown below - I'd suggest looking @ the reviews; I'm sure there are plenty of good vocal offerings available - below are some of the ones I own currently:
The one stating just
Cantatas is a 3-CD set on Brilliant (not sure if it's still in print) - Stötzel is the conductor on 2 discs; Hermann Max on the other - here is a MusicWeb Review (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Dec02/TelemannCantatas.htm) - probably a good start, if still available?
Cornett Cantatas w/ Remy is a fun disc (Bruno has a good review on Amazon HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Telemann-Cornett-Cantatas-G-P/dp/B00000I3XF/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1425309893&sr=1-1&keywords=telemann+cornett)).
Festive Cantatas w/ Stötzel (another excellent Bruno Review (http://www.amazon.com/Telemann-Festive-Cantatas-Georg-Philipp/dp/B000009D7C/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1425310582&sr=1-3&keywords=telemann+cantatas+stotzel)) - this seems to be the first disc in the Brilliant box (so check out the listings).
Passions-Oratorium - a 2-CD set, probably a reissue - about the best I can do, but will be interested in the input of others - Dave :)
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Dec02/Telemann_Cantatas_Hugill.jpg) (http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0003/350/MI0003350783.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41pHCfsJ2UL.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61vPYtmYIBL.jpg)
Quote from: SonicMan46 on March 02, 2015, 06:37:18 AM
Hi Peter - I have only about a half dozen discs of GPT's vocal works, so far from an expert, and I've not listened to these recordings in a while - some are shown below - I'd suggest looking @ the reviews; I'm sure there are plenty of good vocal offerings available - below are some of the ones I own currently:
The one stating just Cantatas is a 3-CD set on Brilliant (not sure if it's still in print) - Stötzel is the conductor on 2 discs; Hermann Max on the other - here is a MusicWeb Review (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Dec02/TelemannCantatas.htm) - probably a good start, if still available?
Cornett Cantatas w/ Remy is a fun disc (Bruno has a good review on Amazon HERE (http://www.amazon.com/Telemann-Cornett-Cantatas-G-P/dp/B00000I3XF/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1425309893&sr=1-1&keywords=telemann+cornett)). Festive Cantatas w/ Stötzel (another excellent Bruno Review (http://www.amazon.com/Telemann-Festive-Cantatas-Georg-Philipp/dp/B000009D7C/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1425310582&sr=1-3&keywords=telemann+cantatas+stotzel)) - this seems to be the first disc in the Brilliant box (so check out the listings).
Passions-Oratorium - a 2-CD set, probably a reissue - about the best I can do, but will be interested in the input of others - Dave :)
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Dec02/Telemann_Cantatas_Hugill.jpg) (http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0003/350/MI0003350783.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41pHCfsJ2UL.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61vPYtmYIBL.jpg)
Thanks
Dave!
I am discovering that there are plenty of Telemann works as well as numerous recordings throughout the last few decades, but relatively few compilations/sets. Thanks for all those cantata recommendations! It seems as if CPO has recorded a great deal of Telemann's works so I had fun browsing at jpc.de. Many of these do not seem very prominent in the US market.
What do you think about Brilliant Classic's efforts?
I purchased two Telemann recordings yesterday. The CPO recording of the Christmas Cantatas was very alluring (wish I had it two months ago):
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/083/MI0001083121.jpg)
I was also drawn to the Brockes Passion after listening to a large portion of it on YouTube. There appears to be very few recordings of this work. One is by Jacob/AAM which is criticized for cutting out more than 30 minutes of the arias. The other recording is an older one by McGegan on Hungaraton which is supposed to be complete. Needless to say I went for the complete one even though I am still considering Jacobs' recording. 0:)
[asin] B000027C4N[/asin]
Here is the Jacobs rendition I was drawn to yesterday. Any impressions? 0:)
Brockes Passion Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin Orchester/Jacobs
https://www.youtube.com/v/3Fil2t6lLb0
Not too big on Telemann yet ... the Tafelmusik set I've got is the Ricercar one - pleasant enough but I feel like I don't fully understand it yet.
However, I don't think this here has been mentioned, and I think it's a pretty gorgeous disc:
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0000/963/MI0000963683.jpg)
It's a large-scale funeral cantata for a Hamburg mayor.
I have a few discs but the only one I remember is the "Donnerode" (Thunder ode) recorded by Hermann Max for Capriccio 25 years ago or so. This is quite impressive and fun (with thundering timpani) although the "message" might be slightly disturbing today. (Written after the Lisbon earthquake brought up questions of theodicy it conveys the glorification of God even by catastrophic natural events: He thunders to be glorified)
There are also two? cantatas but I do not know which ones that used to be attributes to JS Bach but are actually by Telemann.
Telemann: Wassermusik/ 3 Konzerte Musica Antiqua Köln/Goebel
Overall, a wonderful recording! The Wassermusik performance was vivid and engaging throughout. The last concerto (D minor for the 2 chalumeaux) was very interesting in terms of both its slow tempo and enigmatic sound world - intriguing. My regard for Musica Antiqua Köln is growing rapidly and I hope to hear more of their recordings soon. This specific disc is a gem!
(https://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0028941378828.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ljT0kkLlL._SL1417_.jpg)
Quote from: Moonfish on March 04, 2015, 07:06:49 PM
Telemann: Wassermusik/ 3 Konzerte Musica Antiqua Köln/Goebel
Overall, a wonderful recording! The Wassermusik performance was vivid and engaging throughout. The last concerto (D minor for the 2 chalumeaux) was very interesting in terms of both its slow tempo and enigmatic sound world - intriguing. My regard for Musica Antiqua Köln is growing rapidly and I hope to hear more of their recordings soon. This specific disc is a gem!
(https://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0028941378828.jpg)
Thanks for the recommendation!
Based on what I've heard so far, Goebel has a real knack for Telemann... :)
Q
I think I have all but two of the Telemann recordings by Goebel/Musica Antiqua and they are all very good, certainly among the best of this repertoire (and when most of this stuff came out in the 80s there were absolutely peerless). Apparently there is now a flimsy cheapo box with most of these recordings.
Two good choices of The Complete Tafelmusik
[asin]B003R4MLQW[/asin]
[asin]B001BBSEUA[/asin]
Quote from: DavidW on July 09, 2009, 04:58:52 AM
I wonder why Don's library is so large if he doesn't care for the composer? As a just in case? Or were they sent to him hoping for a review? since you know he is a critic.
I hadn't noticed the above post made in 2009. I accumulated my relatively large Telemann library during a stretch of a few months; none of them were sent to me for review. Anyways, I concluded that I much preferred Telemann's vocal works to his purely instrumental music. I loved how he blended voice with orchestra.
In the past couple of years, I've made good use of my Telemann discs and still find the vocal works more compelling. Especially rewarding are his "Der Tag des Gerichts" and "Die Donner-Ode", two of my favorite baroque vocal works. True, it ain't Bach, but they are exciting and fun with an abundance of wonderful melodies.
Quote from: Sammy on March 08, 2015, 08:30:49 AM
I hadn't noticed the above post made in 2009. I accumulated my relatively large Telemann library during a stretch of a few months; none of them were sent to me for review. Anyways, I concluded that I much preferred Telemann's vocal works to his purely instrumental music. I loved how he blended voice with orchestra.
In the past couple of years, I've made good use of my Telemann discs and still find the vocal works more compelling. Especially rewarding are his "Der Tag des Gerichts" and "Die Donner-Ode", two of my favorite baroque vocal works. True, it ain't Bach, but they are exciting and fun with an abundance of wonderful melodies.
The Hickox rendition? Are there any specific cantata recordings you would recommend, Sammy?
It seems like Telemann's instrumental works are abundant, while it is a bit harder to find the vocal works. I am hoping that there will be a complete cantata project one day (I know - wishful thinking?)....
Hermann Max has recorded several of the vocal works. Generally good too.
Yes, it was mentioned on the previous page (7 days ago)! >:D
Quote from: sanantonio on March 08, 2015, 07:17:04 AM
Two good choices of The Complete Tafelmusik
Quote from: Moonfish on March 01, 2015, 12:00:24 PM
*bump*
I am also a bit astounded that the Telemann thread is so small (2 pages) and with more than two years having passed since the last post. Telemann's music seems to suffer from having a reputation of being superfluous, but I have to heartily disagree as I have found great pleasure in its soundscape. Why do you think Telemann get so little attention here? Not modern enough.... ;)
Last year I had the great pleasure of traversing Ricercar Consort's performances of Les plaisirs de la table, which turned out to be a revelation. These discs are fantastic and would certainly serve as a powerful and influential gateway to Telemann's music. Highly recommended!
[asin] B001BBSEUA[/asin]
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61o4ztqKMGL.jpg)
Quote from: sanantonio on March 08, 2015, 09:52:22 AM
Hermann Max has recorded several of the vocal works. Generally good too.
I have a feeling of that Max's performances are in the Brilliant box. I have to check...
Quote from: Moonfish on March 08, 2015, 09:53:00 AM
Yes, it was mentioned on the previous page (7 days ago)! >:D
Sorry, I hate when that happens.
;)
I did not notice your post until after I put mine up.
Quote from: sanantonio on March 08, 2015, 09:55:21 AM
Sorry, I hate when that happens.
;)
I did not notice your post until after I put mine up.
:P
Quote from: Moonfish on March 08, 2015, 09:44:42 AM
The Hickox rendition? Are there any specific cantata recordings you would recommend, Sammy?
Hickox for the Donner-Ode, Max on Capriccio for the other. For cantata recordings, you can't go wrong with Ludger Remy on CPO 777064.
The Donnerode with Max conducting has been re-issued as a filler to "Der Tag des Gerichts" (the day of judgment)
[asin]B005FAH198[/asin]
What about Harnoncourt? I have had my eye on this for a while:
[asin]B000000SIJ[/asin]
Q
Que,
Van Egmond (in the Harnoncourt recording) made me think about this recording with Telemann's "Du aber Daniel, gehe hin" TWV 4:17
In my ears Telemann's cantatas are much more pleasant than I could ever have imagined. :)
[asin] B00008NF74[/asin]
https://www.youtube.com/v/mt2C0S7c_Q4
Quote from: Moonfish on March 09, 2015, 01:20:54 AM
Que,
Van Egmond (in the Harnoncourt recording) made me think about this recording with Telemann's "Du aber Daniel, gehe hin" TWV 4:17
In my ears Telemann's cantatas are much more pleasant than I could ever have imagined. :)
[asin] B00008NF74[/asin]
Thanks from the heads up! :) With Max van Egmond in his prime, we are in very goods hands indeed....
Q
Telemann: Orchestral Suites (Overtures) TWV 55: D23, a2 & D6 Camerata Köln/Schneider
Listening to this "standard" fare from Telemann this afternoon. However, it is delightful and I now keep wondering why Telemann has been so neglected relative to some of his contemporaries. The more I mine (listen to) his works the more interested I become. Considering the volume of works he produced it promises to be a long journey as long as the recordings are available. It was convenient that BC issued an expanded box of his works recently (expanding it from 29 to 50 cds) (http://www.amazon.de/Telemann-Various/dp/B00RBXAI5Q). Regardless, why do you think he has the stigma of being redundant in some circles? I think he belongs in the top tier of Baroque composers.
(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0000/959/MI0000959102.jpg)(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61pU3YuuPVL.jpg)
I don't know but already in the 19th century historians like Spitta (an avid Bachian) gave Telemann a bad rap (despite publishing some cantatas as Bach's that turned later out to have been written by Telemann, look it up, I do not remember the BWV numbers). Basically only Bach was accepted and to some extent Handel (and of an earlier generation Schuetz). Everything else was measured according to how close it was to Bach.
By now there are plenty of good recordings but still Telemann does not seem to have the rank and popularity of e.g. Vivaldi, maybe because there is no such potboiler as the 4 seasons although some of the more pittoresque suites (Don Quixote, Hamburg water music etc.) come close.
I love Telemann. His music is a never-ending flow of joyful musicality for every occasion, for every mood. Even when he's serious, I feel a wink behind his seriousness. He reminds me Joseph Haydn somehow. Some people complain, he's not so memorable, but I believe it's a misunderstanding. His œuvre is usually not about the peaks, it's about the foothills from which they must grow. It's about brilliant and humble craftsmanship, which, in it's vastness, bears a mark of a true genius.
My favourite recordigns are these:
(https://i.scdn.co/image/1e4273e84db4a1bd5bcafdcc1634aaee4fdc9fb2) | (https://i.scdn.co/image/6ba3a513968e0da3818d8c9ea9cd07167b531a9e) |
(https://i.scdn.co/image/d93a1d587bdfc05b53a5e69aa6df06e0b7ea5ce3) | (https://i.scdn.co/image/3583b906fc68b1e270a08ede86311dbacbfca6f6) |
(https://i.scdn.co/image/b498a297a889cf4c7bc736b3d5fa7141e21d1219) | (https://i.scdn.co/image/5da5bab4bde8300927e972bf66aa98bc0b8e525c) |
(https://i.scdn.co/image/8aa84cafedc4595233e52e643d08212ec734f585) | (https://i.scdn.co/image/272c06ac38e035155e847017dc75910145843d8c) |
But there's so many of them!
I got this box set a while back with pretty low expectations. I love the Telemann discs in the Archiv box, but he doesn't get much attention, so I was doubtful. Anyway, it was very cheap at my local store (about $40US, rather than $80 as per Amazon).
[asin]B06XJGR3V1[/asin]
However, I am absolutely delighted. I'm kind of a musical box set collector, and tend to jump around like crazy to this and that, but I can't stop playing this, and the more I play the more I want to hear. Lots of performances by Camerata Koln, the Kuijkens, Collegium Aureum, Ensemble 1700, Bruggen, etc.. Great playing and terrific sound. Also great instrumental variety--that may be why I don't get tired of it--terrific combinations of instruments. It never palls.
I wish there was a good biography of him in English.
Really enjoying this. 2011. Trios and small string ensembles.
[asin]B001XT8O14[/asin]
Classical CD Of The Month: Festive Telemann Cantatas
(https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x0/smart/https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Fjenslaurson%2Ffiles%2F2018%2F03%2FFORBES_Classical-CD-of-the-MONTH_2017-03_TELEMANN_Cantatas_Bad-Homburg_CHRISTOPHERUS_Classical-Critic_jens-f-laurson_960.jpg)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2018/03/19/classical-cd-of-the-month-festive-telemann-cantatas/#1410c37b2dc6 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenslaurson/2018/03/19/classical-cd-of-the-month-festive-telemann-cantatas/#1410c37b2dc6)
Quote from: Artran on March 28, 2017, 05:00:32 AM
I love Telemann. His music is a never-ending flow of joyful musicality for every occasion, for every mood. Even when he's serious, I feel a wink behind his seriousness. He reminds me Joseph Haydn somehow. Some people complain, he's not so memorable, but I believe it's a misunderstanding. His œuvre is usually not about the peaks, it's about the foothills from which they must grow. It's about brilliant and humble craftsmanship, which, in it's vastness, bears a mark of a true genius.
My favourite recordigns are these:
(https://i.scdn.co/image/1e4273e84db4a1bd5bcafdcc1634aaee4fdc9fb2) | (https://i.scdn.co/image/6ba3a513968e0da3818d8c9ea9cd07167b531a9e) |
(https://i.scdn.co/image/d93a1d587bdfc05b53a5e69aa6df06e0b7ea5ce3) | (https://i.scdn.co/image/3583b906fc68b1e270a08ede86311dbacbfca6f6) |
(https://i.scdn.co/image/b498a297a889cf4c7bc736b3d5fa7141e21d1219) | (https://i.scdn.co/image/5da5bab4bde8300927e972bf66aa98bc0b8e525c) |
(https://i.scdn.co/image/8aa84cafedc4595233e52e643d08212ec734f585) | (https://i.scdn.co/image/272c06ac38e035155e847017dc75910145843d8c) |
But there's so many of them!
Ah, so many recommendations to explore!
Thank you, Artran!
It seems as if Harmonia Mundi have compiled some of their Telemann recordings:
[asin] B072HQHBZ4[/asin] | (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81Rn4MBuDeL._SL1204_.jpg) |
Quote from: Mookalafalas on October 07, 2017, 04:03:24 AM
I got this box set a while back with pretty low expectations. I love the Telemann discs in the Archiv box, but he doesn't get much attention, so I was doubtful. Anyway, it was very cheap at my local store (about $40US, rather than $80 as per Amazon).
[asin]B06XJGR3V1[/asin]
However, I am absolutely delighted. I'm kind of a musical box set collector, and tend to jump around like crazy to this and that, but I can't stop playing this, and the more I play the more I want to hear. Lots of performances by Camerata Koln, the Kuijkens, Collegium Aureum, Ensemble 1700, Bruggen, etc.. Great playing and terrific sound. Also great instrumental variety--that may be why I don't get tired of it--terrific combinations of instruments. It never palls.
I wish there was a good biography of him in English.
This box is clearly worthy of exploration. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, Al. I see that I was quite exuberant about Telemann when I was posting here back in 2015. Such a long sabbatical. I have travelled many roads since then, but need to revisit this luminescent sanctuary (and prolific time) of the Baroque era. Listening to Telemann's Brockes-Passion, TWV5:1 / René Jacobs Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin. It certainly brings back good memories.
Ricercar released this compilation in 2017. That label rocks so this is probably a no-brainer!
Booklet for the Ricercar collection: https://www.outhere-music.com/en/albums/a-portrait-ric-375/booklet
MusicWeb Review: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/May/Telemann_collection_9029586013.htm
More information and samples here: https://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/classical/products/8260850--telemann-a-portrait
[asin] B01N7KSVXH[/asin] | (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/818bE0hsiHL._SL1200_.jpg) |
I guess it is not surprising that 2017 provided a bonanza of Telemann recordings in honor of the 250th (!!!) anniversary of his death back in 1767. Warner also put forward a compilation:
Same MusicWeb review: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/May/Telemann_collection_9029586013.htm
[asin] B01MY6NF1S[/asin] | (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61EIYY3O8iL.jpg) |
Quote from: Moonfish on May 27, 2018, 03:17:12 AM
I guess it is not surprising that 2017 provided a bonanza of Telemann recordings in honor of the 250th (!!!) anniversary of his death back in 1767. Warner also put forward a compilation:
Same MusicWeb review: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/May/Telemann_collection_9029586013.htm
[asin] B01MY6NF1S[/asin] | (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61EIYY3O8iL.jpg) |
Good to see someone back in this thread! It's been like a ghost-town. I was looking through the composer thread, and couldn't believe how poorly a titan like Telemann ranks (as far as pages in the thread) compared to dozens of names I've barely heard of.
Personally, I had intended to snap up that Warner box, but am just inundated with Telemann now. It looks excellent, but I have too much other stuff to explore first. The Archiv 10 disk box is fantastic, and with the Sony and the Brilliant...I had to draw the line somewhere. Anyway, I hope you'll share some more of your findings over here. I got embarrassed waxing excited over disks all by my lonesome :-[
Yes, I felt your pain when I was reading the posts in the thread :'( :'( :'(. Well, now I suspect there will be some fire in Telemann. 2017 was certainly inundated with Telemann recordings and compilations and I suspect it will ripple through 2018 as well. I just hope that these compilations don't go OOP as the Telemann realm seems like a small niche. I wonder why? The music is delightful in every way possible.
Like you I tend to jump between different types of classical music as I listen (as you probably have noticed by now - ha ha), but Telemann is a keeper. :P
*oh, my 6,000th post* :D
Quote from: Mookalafalas on May 27, 2018, 03:39:48 AM
The Archiv 10 disk box is fantastic...
This one? Is it the release in the extremely flimsy packaging or is it "normal"?
[asin] B00LHO6PWK[/asin]
Quote from: Moonfish on May 27, 2018, 03:53:03 AM
This one? Is it the release in the extremely flimsy packaging or is it "normal"?
[asin] B00LHO6PWK[/asin]
yeah, it's in a crappy little box. But it can be had cheaply ($20?) and is really nice. I first thought the Tafelmusik set was a little slow (although it's a favorite of many), but after playing it a little more it really hit me. I love Goebel and the Koln group.
And i wouldn't worry about this stuff going OOP. I think the age of Telemann is upon us. First the Bach revival, then Vivaldi, and now Telemann. He's deserving. He's like a Baroque Haydn, in that every piece has a sweet little creative something to it. The ensembles and groups hitting his music hardest these days are really top shelf, dedicated enthusiasts. I think more and more are going to come on board.
Anyway, to repeat, I look forward to hearing your "Telemann thoughts" over here. Maybe some others will join in. If not ;) We've got our own thread 8).
Quote from: Mookalafalas on May 27, 2018, 04:05:59 AM
yeah, it's in a crappy little box. But it can be had cheaply ($20?) and is really nice. I first thought the Tafelmusik set was a little slow (although it's a favorite of many), but after playing it a little more it really hit me. I love Goebel and the Koln group.
And i wouldn't worry about this stuff going OOP. I think the age of Telemann is upon us. First the Bach revival, then Vivaldi, and now Telemann. He's deserving. He's like a Baroque Haydn, in that every piece has a sweet little creative something to it. The ensembles and groups hitting his music hardest these days are really top shelf, dedicated enthusiasts. I think more and more are going to come on board.
Anyway, to repeat, I look forward to hearing your "Telemann thoughts" over here. Maybe some others will join in. If not ;) We've got our own thread 8).
*dreams*
*....The Telemann empire....* ::) :P
Quote from: SonicMan46 on March 01, 2015, 02:09:45 PM
Hi Peter - since my post back in 2007 when I had about 2 dozen Telemann discs, I now have just over 50 - I keep tract of them on Google Drive, just so when an interesting one appears, especially w/ period instruments, I closely check those TWV numbers - ;) BTW - have you looked @ that catalog? GPT was considered the most prolific composer of ALL time, so there is plenty to enjoy! He was also the 'most famous' composer in Germany @ back then, respected much above JS Bach - in fact, Telemann was the 'first choice' for the job in Leipzig, Graupner the second choice, and then Bach was reluctantly given the position - funny how perceptions have changed. Dave :)
Hi Dave!
Another three years (*gasp*)! How is your Telemann collection doing today? Still growing in its immensity or has it fallen into slumber? I still enjoy some of those cantata recordings you recommended to me years ago! Splendid! I'm quite excited exploring the fireworks of the 2017 Telemann anniversary! What about you?
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ICrefXpPiRk/maxresdefault.jpg)
Mmmm...
G.Ph. Telemann: Concerto in D major for Violin, Cello, Trumpet and Strings, TWV 53:D5
Bremer Barockorchester, Program: "Music without Borders", Live recording from Unser Lieben Frauen Church, Bremen, November 21st, 2015
https://www.youtube.com/v/e3vtyS0Vn4s
This NY Times article from 1982 gives an interesting perspective of Telemann:
EXPLORING THE ENORMOUS OUTPUT OF TELEMANN by Allan Kozinn
https://www.nytimes.com/1982/06/06/arts/exploring-the-enormous-output-of-telemann.html
Interesting...
Telemann: Sacred Music (Hänssler/Profil)
https://smile.amazon.com/Sacred-Music-G-P-TELEMANN/dp/B06Y39FKDL/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1527455187&sr=1-1&keywords=B06Y39FKDL
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81uKr4KgnUL._SL1200_.jpg) | (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71GhEXnQCkL._SL1200_.jpg) |
Telemann: Paris Quartets Nos. 1-6 Kuijken3, Leonhardt
Revisiting the Paris Quartets. It seems like these quartets as well as the Table Music are the most common gateways to Telemann's works - at least in terms of popularity. I learned that the name we usually link to these quartets (Paris Quartets) is one that was placed upon them only recently during the last century based on Telemann's visit to Paris between 1737-38. They have an interesting history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_quartets#History
Clearly, the quartets were well received:
"The admirable performances of these quartets by Messrs Blavet (transverse flute), Guignon (violin), the younger Forcroy [i.e. Forqueray] (viola da gamba) and Edouard (cello) would be worth describing were it possible for words to be found to do them justice. In short, they won the attention of the ears of the court and the town, and procured for me in a very little time an almost universal renown and increased esteem. (Telemann 1740, 367, translation from Bergmann 1967, 1101)".
Telemann wrote more than 40 quartets during his lifetime!!!! I had no idea.
Paris Quartets (Wiki): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_quartets
Do you have a favorite version of the Paris Quartets? The Kuijken3/Leonhardt recording seems to be widespread, but there are (obviously) tons of recordings of these quartets available to aficionados.
(https://cdn-s3.allmusic.com/release-covers/500/0002/731/0002731446.jpg)
Here is another performance with the Freiburger Barockconsort:
https://www.youtube.com/v/3ab7x88qyK8
great posts! A lot to soak up.
A couple of years ago, I remember you mentioning this
[asin]B00RBXAI5Q[/asin]
although I'm not sure if you said you actually got it or not. I got it very, very cheaply last year, but haven't played anything from it. Wondered if you had any thoughts or recommendations.
I have played this,
[asin]B003R4MLQW[/asin]
and really enjoyed it. Apparently, however, some find it too fast and glib. I think I will need to do some comparison between it, the bruggen (which I also loved) and the Goebel from Archiv...
Cross posting from the WAYLT thread:
Trying this, on Spotify:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51M19B9A4FL.jpg)
I already have these performed on recorder by Dorothee Oberlinger, an exciting and dazzling performance.
But these pieces were intended for transverse flute, and that field is not crowded with perfomances on a period instruments.
I suspected Barthold Kuijken's performance be a classic. And it is: nuanced and absolutely tone perfect, but in a rather stately fashion with measured tempi, rather understating the "fantastic" side of these pieces. But it's a very pretty performance all the same.
Next, I'll try the Lazarevitch that our Gordo recommended the other day. :)
Q
Quote from: Gordo on August 04, 2018, 08:53:25 AM
That Lazarevitch is a beast! Recently, I was listening to his disk of Telemann's 12 fantasias for solo flute, and it's a delightful disk. And, just for the record, due to the nature of the music, it's not usually easy to walk with the performer through a complete disk.
[asin]B01MUSCT8B[/asin]
Q
Quote from: Que on August 05, 2018, 01:38:14 AM
Cross posting from the WAYLT thread:
Trying this, on Spotify:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51M19B9A4FL.jpg)
I already have these performed on recorder by Dorothee Oberlinger, an exciting and dazzling performance.
But these pieces were intended for traverse flute, and that field is not crowded with perfomances on a period instruments.
I suspected Barthold Kuijken's performance be a classic. And it is: nuanced and absolutely tone perfect, but in a rather stately fashion with measured tempi, rather understating the "fantastic" side of these pieces. But it's a very pretty performance all the same.
Next, I'll try the Lazarevitch that our Gordo recommended the other day. :)
Q
While they seem a bit aside from the "mission" of the box, the two flute solo
Fantasie on the disc from the
Hantaï box are both brilliant pieces, and a welcome textural relief.
Cross posts from the Listening Thread just to locate my own three versions of the complete Tafelmusik in this relevant thread
Telemann: Musique de table [Bruggen]
(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_300/warnerclassics2564694572.jpg?1285153959)
The recording has great weight and body given the relative size of the ensemble [no credits given in this edition to the sound engineers]. The music is very well played in a lively, lilting manner. The Trio and the Conclusion [in particular] in this section, Production I are notable, stand out movements for me.
Telemann: Musique de table [Freiburger Barockorchester]
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Ztf7JGXsL._SY355_.jpg)
These are delightful versions performed with a lightness of touch and fluidity that enables the music to move along in a most engaging way. The playing is impeccable, crisp and clean and the recorded sound is great, especially that of the brass. There is a different but lovely "feel" to this performance when compared with the other versions that I own; it is very engaging. I find that the Quartet and Trio movements, in Production II, scored for wind instruments, have some wonderful textures and harmonies and great bassoon scoring to boot. The Concert movement has very engaging and beautiful slow movement. The Sonata movement is charming and the work ends with an energetic, engaging and a lively conclusion.
Telemann: Tafelmusik [Goebel]
(https://img.cdandlp.com/2013/08/imgL/116147282.jpg)
The musicianship is exemplary and the production and recording are of the highest quality which manifests itself in the wonderful sound of the textures of the instruments. This is refined and sophisticated music making which has a very easy flow to it. The Concert, in Production III is a stand out movement in this section with those wonderful sounding horns. The Trio section is charming and the Solo section is also notable for its singing oboe lines. The programme is wonderfully wound up with gusto in the final Conclusion.
Cross posts from the Listening Thread for location of relevant information
Tafelmusik, extracts from Parts I & II [Florilegium]
(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/067/MI0001067577.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
For those who either do not know it or wish to listen to a complete version of Tafelmusik this single CD will make a very fine introduction to the work for you. The playing is very fine and the instrumental textures are well recorded. This CD makes for a very pleasant listen and would be recommended as a good introduction to the work.
(https://d27t0qkxhe4r68.cloudfront.net/t_900/845221003535.jpg?1418816354)
This 5 CD set is a good recommendation for [and introduction to] the music of Telemann. It offers a diversity of music performed by a diversity of ensembles and it is very well played throughout with an easy flow to the music.
Bump for Telemann...
I've been listening to the Wassermusik disc with Goebel & the Musica Antiqua Köln, and have come away with the impression that Telemann is nowhere near as dry and boring as he is sometimes remembered. That being said, he wrote so much music that I don't know what's worth checking out and what is not.
Anyone listening to Telemann lately?
No, it's been a while but you can get all the stuff Musica Antiqua Köln recorded with confidence, especially Tafelmusik and the disc with wind concerti. The latter includes Telemann is rarely dry, it's just not "deep" music but I think he is at least as good an instrumental composer as Vivaldi (who admittedly was more influential because he set the late baroque style for the solo concerto whereas Telemann (like Bach and Handel) drew from many sources and wrote in some fusion style containing "French", Italian and other elements). I have a fondness for Handel, but honestly I'd probably have to say that Telemann is a better or certainly more varied composer of chamber and orchestral music overall. Telemann lacks that piece everyone knows, the Hamburg water music or the picturesque suites like Don Quixote etc. never became as popular. Akademie für Alte Musik have some of these "theme suites" on harmonia mundi, they are also very good.
The Tafelmusik is a great and representative collection; the Brilliant recording with Belder is also pretty good and probably still cheap. For the chamber music there are the "Paris quartets" that have been recorded by the Kujiken's and similar ensembles.
Quote from: vers la flamme on September 16, 2020, 03:06:41 AM
Bump for Telemann...
I've been listening to the Wassermusik disc with Goebel & the Musica Antiqua Köln, and have come away with the impression that Telemann is nowhere near as dry and boring as he is sometimes remembered. That being said, he wrote so much music that I don't know what's worth checking out and what is not.
Anyone listening to Telemann lately?
Hi
Vers la flamme - I've been a long time
GPF fan and have added/culled/donated many of his recordings over the years - I prefer the instrumental works - now own about 50 discs (shown below from my recently updated Numbers database) - probably listen to the 'Table Music' and 'Paris Quartets' the most (and have 2 sets of each, again culled over the years and my current preferences, BUT many others exist as shown over the years in this thread) -
Telemann was the most prolific composer of his era (and thus likely any musical time) so recordings can overlap when trying to put together a collection; SO, I've relied on his TWV Catalog (https://www.musiqueorguequebec.ca/catal/telemann/telgp.html) and keep track of the composition numbers (in a Google doc) when I want to purchase a new recording. Dave :)
P.S. also keep in mind that a number of BIG boxes have appeared which provides 'one stop shopping' but can be an 'iffy' mix - some have been shown here in previous posts.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Classical-Music/i-2TWhNGS/0/95614768/O/Telemann9_20.png)
Thanks for the comments! I think Tafelmusik may be the answer to "where to from here", though there is much to choose from so I will have to do some sampling. I was listening to the Ricercar "Telemann: A Portrait" box and it sounds pretty great, so I may jump on it while it's cheap, but I'm also going to check out the Belder Tafelmusik.
@Sonicman/Dave, thanks much for the TWV Catalog; I've been looking for this.
If you can find a copy of this for a good price (used to be dirt cheap, now may be OOP) it is a treasure.
[asin]B06XJGR3V1[/asin]
This mighty set has served me well since 1976. Surfaces still sound great.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wvfKvpXz/Table-Music.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fyGrtTkG/s-l1600-2.jpg)
I am not collecting, but I just love LPs. Reminds me of a time when classical recordings were serious business and solid treasures like a leather bound Encyclopedia.
My favorite music by Telemann are his Orchestral Suites/Overtures. He was very prolific and probably wrote around 600 Overtures. I don't think all of them have been recorded. The closest I have come to a complete set are the three volumes with all in all 9 CDs from Brilliant Classics.
The Darmstadt Overtures from Naxos with Helmut Muller-Bruhl conducting is my favorite Telemann-CD.
If you can find them there are also great Telemann recordings of Overtures/Suites and concertos with Pinnock conducting on Archiv/DG.
Telemann also composed pleasant music for chamber forces - trio sonatas - flute/recorder sonatas etc.
Despite of being a fan of German baroque I have very little Telemann's music. I have always found his music less interesting than that of other baroque composers, but then again I have heard only a ridiculously small portion of his gigantic output. On a Sony disc of German cantatas there is Telemann's cantata "
Du aber Daniel, gehe hin" which I find very good. While many other German baroque composers from Telemann's generation such as Graupner, Fasch and Heinichen have been weakly recorded especially in the 20th century, Telemann seems to have been well represented alongside J. S. Bach and Handel which feel "force-feeding." Why always Telemann? Why not Schieferdecker for a change?
Telemann is imo a boring name and feels like a stove brand rather than a German baroque composer name. :P
Quote from: Ras on September 22, 2020, 04:49:06 AM
The Darmstadt Overtures from Naxos with Helmut Muller-Bruhl conducting is my favorite Telemann-CD.
Thanks for the recommendation! I just ordered this CD used for 3,57 euros delivered. 0:)
QuoteTelemann is imo a boring name and feels like a stove brand rather than a German baroque composer name. :P
Strange. Oh,well - you might want to look at the main character of this murder novel:
The Telemann Touch, by William Haggard ç1958
Quote from: 71 dB on September 22, 2020, 06:02:31 AM
Despite of being a fan of German baroque I have very little Telemann's music. I have always found his music less interesting than that of other baroque composers ... While many other German baroque composers from Telemann's generation such as Graupner, Fasch and Heinichen have been weakly recorded especially in the 20th century, Telemann seems to have been well represented alongside J. S. Bach and Handel which feel "force-feeding." Why always Telemann? Why not Schieferdecker for a change?
The New Grove has two paragraphs and about 3/4 of a page on Schieferdecker when expanded for works. The article on Telemann spans over 12 pages, and was pulled out and expanded in the Grove's book,
North European Baroque Masters ç1985. I've never seen a book dedicated to Schieferdecker, but there are at least three in English on Telemann. The articles in various tomes that discuss Telemann are as numberless as the sand. I see about a dozen for Schieferdecker - although that number is obviously too small. Telemann composed some 3,000 works. I see about 100 or so for Schieferdecker. All this relates to the relative importance of these two composers.
https://interlude.hk/georg-philipp-telemann-1681-1767-hero-zero/
Steven Zohn in NGDMM: " The most prolific composer of his time, he was widely regarded as Germany's leading composer during the first half of the 18th century. He remained at the forefront of musical innovation throughout his career, and was an important link between the late Baroque and early Classical styles. He also contributed significantly to Germany's concert life and the fields of music publishing, music education and theory. "
Our personal tastes (usually) need no defending. But we can't overlook scholarly consensus.
One also needs to consider that the establishment of Telemann was to some extent an uphill battle. Telemann was the favorite whipping boy of many of the mid/late 19th century first generation of music historians and editors like Philipp Spitta who frequently denigrated the supposed trivial mass production of Telemann compared with Bach (and to a lesser extent Handel who could come on both sides, depending on the author).
Quote from: Scion7 on September 22, 2020, 05:18:22 PMThe New Grove has two paragraphs and about 3/4 of a page on Schieferdecker when expanded for works. The article on Telemann spans over 12 pages, and was pulled out and expanded in the Grove's book, North European Baroque Masters ç1985. I've never seen a book dedicated to Schieferdecker, but there are at least three in English on Telemann. The articles in various tomes that discuss Telemann are as numberless as the sand. I see about a dozen for Schieferdecker - although that number is obviously too small. Telemann composed some 3,000 works. I see about 100 or so for Schieferdecker. All this relates to the relative importance of these two composers.
https://interlude.hk/georg-philipp-telemann-1681-1767-hero-zero/
Steven Zohn in NGDMM: " The most prolific composer of his time, he was widely regarded as Germany's leading composer during the first half of the 18th century. He remained at the forefront of musical innovation throughout his career, and was an important link between the late Baroque and early Classical styles. He also contributed significantly to Germany's concert life and the fields of music publishing, music education and theory. "
Our personal tastes (usually) need no defending. But we can't overlook scholarly consensus.
I never said Schieferdecker is as important as Telemann. If the number of compositions is so important then Alban Berg is not important. What you write is actually an example of "manufacturing consent" where 10 times more important composers are made to look 100 times more important. In the 18th century Telemann was considered more important than J. S. Bach. Should we still think the same way? I don't know about you, but I don't and I think J. S. Bach is more important than Telemann.
Schieferdecker was Buxtehude's last pupil and not even the best one (Bruhns was). I'd say my taste puts Telemann and Schieferdecker on the same level, althou I have heard relatively little both. Also it's clear you are going to have much more recordings of an insanely prolific composer. I'm just saying when scholars concentrate their attention to praise a few selected composers they create shadows that hide the other composers from us, composers who would be interesting in their own way.
^ your question was, "why not Shieferdecker ..." being recorded as often, etc. - which I tried to explain
Quote from: Scion7 on September 23, 2020, 04:46:18 AM
^ your question was, "why not Shieferdecker ..." being recorded as often, etc. - which I tried to explain
I wrote "for a change", not "as often". Totally different thing.
Quote from: Ras on September 22, 2020, 04:49:06 AM
My favorite music by Telemann are his Orchestral Suites/Overtures. He was very prolific and probably wrote around 600 Overtures. I don't think all of them have been recorded. The closest I have come to a complete set are the three volumes with all in all 9 CDs from Brilliant Classics.
The Darmstadt Overtures from Naxos with Helmut Muller-Bruhl conducting is my favorite Telemann-CD.
If you can find them there are also great Telemann recordings of Overtures/Suites and concertos with Pinnock conducting on Archiv/DG.
Telemann also composed pleasant music for chamber forces - trio sonatas - flute/recorder sonatas etc.
Telemann's Wassermusik Overture great—you're telling me this is only one of 600 of his works in the genre?! I'll have to track down that Mühler-Brühl recording. Is it on period instruments? I have one Naxos Telemann recording, concertos with Richard Edlinger & the Capella Istropolitana. Not really HIP at all, but I like the sound of the ensemble so it's OK.
I always enjoy listening to Telemann even if he's not a particularly deep or intellectual composer. So it's honestly hard to go wrong with any album in general, I guess. I've nonetheless put an asterisk * next to personal favourites from my small (?) collection.
I have the following:
Double & Triple Concertos - Christopher Hogwood, Academy of Ancient Music
Triple Concertos - Simon Standage, Collegium Musicum 90
*Christmas Cantatas II - a bunch of people I don't know, and Miriam Feuersinger
Passions-Oratorium - Hermann Max, Das Kleine Konzert
Chamber Music for Recorder - Dorothee Oberlinger, Ensemble 1700
*Complete Violin Concertos Vols. 3, 5 & 6 - Elizabeth Wallfisch, The Wallfisch Band
Festliche Kantaten zur Reformation - Kammerchor Bad Homburg, Johann Rosenmüller Ensemble
*Quintetti d'archi e Partite per due liuti - Freiburger Barockorchester Consort
Tafelmusik (complete) - Freiburger Barockorchester
*Quatuors Parisiens (complete) - John Holloway, Linde Brunmayr, Lorenz Duftschmid, Ulrike Becker, Lars Ulrik Mortensen
Wind Overtures Vol. 1 - L'Orfeo Blaserensemble
*The Grand Concertos for Mixed Instruments Vols. 1 and 2, + Wind Concertos Vol. 7 - Michael Schneider, La Stagione Frankfurt
*Ouverture-Suites - Felix Koch, Neumeyer Consort
12 Fantasias for Solo Violin - Rachel Podger
12 Fantasias for Solo Violin, arranged for viola - Nobuko Imai
*12 Fantasias & a sonata for Solo Viola da Gamba - Paolo Pandolfo
Plus:
*2 oboe concertos - Thomas Stacy (split album with JS Bach)
Trio Sonata TWV42:g7 - Pallade Musica (split album with OEG Schieferlein & CPE Bach)
*Viola concerto TWV51:G9 - Nils Mönkemeyer (split album with Corelli, JS Bach, Delalande)
I don't know much of Telemann's output, but I've performed selections from the Tafelmusik and found them immensely enjoyable and inventive. I've been looking for a recording of the work on modern instruments (preferably incorporating some elements of period performance), but haven't been successful. Anyone have any leads?
There is/was a Tafelmusik recording with Paillard (Erato) on modern instruments and the first Brüggen recording (Concerto Amsterdam) apparently also uses modern instruments. I have not heard either but I guess that both have some influence from the budding HIP scene of the 1960s.
I have a bunch of vocal music from Telemann; I think this part of his oeuvre is still rather underrated and not as well represented on discs.
[asin]B00006C2C5[/asin]
Quote from: vers la flamme on September 23, 2020, 02:52:50 PM
Telemann's Wassermusik Overture great—you're telling me this is only one of 600 of his works in the genre?! I'll have to track down that Mühler-Brühl recording. Is it on period instruments? I have one Naxos Telemann recording, concertos with Richard Edlinger & the Capella Istropolitana. Not really HIP at all, but I like the sound of the ensemble so it's OK.
Yes, I have seen the figure 600 Overtures by Telemann, not in a scholarly work just in a popular introduction to classical music (Kenneth and Valerie McLeish's: "A Listener's Guide to Classical Music"). Same source claims Telemann wrote 1000 concertos!!!
The Naxos recording I recommended is played on modern instruments by a chamber orchestra, but though not strictly speaking on period instrument I would still say it's "HIP".
Here is the Muhler-Bruhl Naxos CD:
[asin]B000038I7S[/asin]
Another favorite recording of Overtures by Telemann (and this one is on period instruments) is Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin on Harmonia Mundi:
[asin]B00C3MGIZO[/asin]
This recording is good too, but apparently out of print - 8 cds with Overtures on Brilliant Classics:
[asin]B0085U0GJW[/asin]
Telemann's "Tafelmusik" is a good place to start - it takes up ca. 4 CDs and it alternates between chamber pieces and overtures. My favorite recording has not yet been completed and is out of print: Florilegium on Channel Classics.
So instead I would recommend Musica Antiqua Koln:
[asin]B003W16TAE[/asin]
Freiburger Barockorchester also recorded Tafelmusik for Harmnoia Mundi, but it is also out of print.
I think pretty much all of the recordings recommended here (even those that are OOP) can be found on streaming services such as www.spotify.com
^Thanks! That Goebel Tafelmusik looks good, and I have his Wassermusik disc. Thoughts on the Belder/Brilliant Classics Tafelmusik? I have been looking at that too, and it's so cheap.
Belder is overall very good. A bit more relaxed and not as contrastful as Goebel but he has some of the top Dutch/Belgian soloists, so buy with confidence.
Brilliant has an older 3-disc set with some concerti that is a mix between HIP and modern instruments (because licensed from several sources) and also not bad but not as good as the Tafelmusik
Quote from: Mookalafalas on September 17, 2020, 06:23:55 AM
If you can find a copy of this for a good price (used to be dirt cheap, now may be OOP) it is a treasure.
[asin]B06XJGR3V1[/asin]
It is still (fairly) reasonably priced on Amazon UK MP - £55 or so. And yes, a definite treasure.
Quote from: vers la flamme on September 16, 2020, 03:06:41 AM
Bump for Telemann...
I've been listening to the Wassermusik disc with Goebel & the Musica Antiqua Köln, and have come away with the impression that Telemann is nowhere near as dry and boring as he is sometimes remembered. That being said, he wrote so much music that I don't know what's worth checking out and what is not.
Anyone listening to Telemann lately?
I seems that over time the mood in Classical circles has shifted on Telemann. :)
I mean, if even an eminent HIP conductor as Philip Herreweghe was once quoted saying: "Life is too short to listen to Telemann", then as a composer you have a bit of a reputation issue... ;)
Anyway, my two cents... Telemann is generally not the composer of big "deep" emotional gestures and he wrote a lot of music (but not exclusively) that is "easy" on the listener's ear. I think the mood on Telemann, and a lot of other (Baroque) composers, has changed because we gradually moved away from the idea that music has to be emotionally profound and challenging for the listener to be interesting.
For me Telemann's "unique selling point" is his ability to perfectly fuse French, Italian and German(ic) Baroque styles into his own highly sophisticated personal musical language. Telemann was a musical polyglot! :)
This is all so masterly done with such superb technical skills that it feels natural and easy. This technical sophistication brings a subtlety in expression that has been hard to reproduce and has contributed to smooth, bland and uneventful Telemann performances in the past. No wonder his reputation as a "boring" composer.
Only in recent years with the growing familiarity and experience with Baroque styles and knowledge how to apply various techniques on improvisation, phrasing, embellishments, etc, Telemann's music has - finally - come to life!
Telemann played "straight" by uninformed performers is therefore as dead as a Dodo... ::) Booooring.... :P
This means that you really need to pick the right performers. Generally "older" recordings are a loss, with some notable exceptions of HIP pioneers like the Leonhardt, Brüggen cs and Goebel. And of course some of the works in Telemann's huge output are more interesting than others....
Some personal favourites, many of which already mentioned by Dave (SonicMan).
As you can see, so far Telemann's chamber and keyboard music have generally worked best for me.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81qo9kqSgtL._SS500_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81nO6rkLOXL._SS500_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/919k5y4FnRL._SS500_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71pomMdA9jL._SS500_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/B1j7rCxW+tS._SS500_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81sOtsI-9aL._SS500_.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51j78cJEtaL._SX500_QL70_FMwebp_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71ZC4jR-JbL._SS500_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71I6czznSWL._SS500_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71GhyWebBRL._SS500_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71xaHhH7NsL._SS500_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71j3UJx-VEL._SS500_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/716p3ErCZiL._SS500_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71bDuwNAxDL._SS500_.jpg)
Q
Telemann is IMO also the only one who comes to close to Vivaldian colors and combination of instruments or even exceeds him. Even in Tafelmusik there are all kinds of combinations for the "concertos" and chamber music. I probably mentioned already the wind concerto disc by MAK with a haunting concerto for chalumeaux and the famous traverso + recorder concerto. There is also one in E major for a crazy combination incl. Oboe d'amore that is included in an anthology called "Concerti d'amore" with Ponseele etc. Manze also has an old good disc on Denon with that concerto and others with very colorful combinations.
[asin]B000A2GQEW[/asin] [asin]B0000034XH[/asin]
Quote from: Que on September 27, 2020, 03:59:07 AM
I seems that over time the mood in Classical circles has shifted on Telemann. :)
I mean, if even an eminent HIP conductor as Philip Herreweghe was once quoted saying: "Life is too short to listen to Telemann", then as a composer you have a bit of a reputation issue... ;)
Anyway, my two cents... Telemann is generally not the composer of big "deep" emotional gestures and he wrote a lot of music (but not exclusively) that is "easy" on the listener's ear. I think the mood on Telemann, and a lot of other (Baroque) composers, has changed because we gradually moved away from the idea that music has to be emotionally profound and challenging for the listener to be interesting.
For me Telemann's "unique selling point" is his ability to perfectly fuse French, Italian and German(ic) Baroque styles into his own highly sophisticated personal musical language. Telemann was a musical polyglot! :)
This is all so masterly done with such superb technical skills that it feels natural and easy. This technical sophistication brings a subtlety in expression that has been hard to reproduce and has contributed to smooth, bland and unevenful Telemann performances in the past. No wonder his reputation as a "boring" composer.
Only in recent years with the growing familiarity and experience with Baroque styles and knowledge how to apply various techniques on improvisation, phrasing, embellishments, etc, Telemann's music has - finally - come to life!
Telemann played "straight" by uninformed performers is therefore as dead as a Dodo... ::) Booooring.... :P
This means that you really need to pick the right performers. Generally "older" recordings are a loss, with some notable exceptions of HIP pioneers like the Leonhardt, Brüggen cs and Goebel. And of course some of the works in Telemann's huge output are more interesting than others....
Some personal favourites, many of which already mentioned by Dave (SonicMan).
As you can see, so far Telemann's chamber and keyboard music have generally worked best for me.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81qo9kqSgtL._SS500_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81nO6rkLOXL._SS500_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/919k5y4FnRL._SS500_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71pomMdA9jL._SS500_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/B1j7rCxW+tS._SS500_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81sOtsI-9aL._SS500_.jpg) (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51j78cJEtaL._SX500_QL70_FMwebp_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71ZC4jR-JbL._SS500_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71I6czznSWL._SS500_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71GhyWebBRL._SS500_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71xaHhH7NsL._SS500_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71j3UJx-VEL._SS500_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/716p3ErCZiL._SS500_.jpg) (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71bDuwNAxDL._SS500_.jpg)
Q
2+!
Que - thanks for the excellent discussion and certainly agree w/ your comments; plus, believe that I own most of those CDs shown above except for a few, including the
Nuria Rial - the recording is on Spotify, so I'll take a listen (the Amazon reviews are outstanding!) - now I'm not much of a vocal music collector (Bach JS cantatas being the MAJOR exception), so unlikely a purchase - amazing how these streaming musical services (if connected to a good home music system) has almost eliminated my CD purchasing. Dave :)
Poor Telemann! Nobody likes his operas? I like all of these:
(https://pixhost.icu/avaxhome/f7/5b/00755bf7_medium.jpg)
(https://s12emagst.akamaized.net/products/14873/14872333/images/res_d12955c054b540f003e2b43c6ea296ab_full.jpg)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/4118R7EWZBL.jpg)
I also like some of his cantatas and oratorios but need to dig deeper to name them.....
There is so much music... :o I've been listening to concertos, divertimentos, and overtures, all with Reinhard Goebel and the Musica Antiqua Köln. I love what I'm hearing. This music is so full of color and life. Totally not boring! :laugh: I would agree with Jo that the composer that most immediately comes to mind when listening to Telemann is Antonio Vivaldi, though Telemann seems to have a bit more of a cosmopolitan flavor.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/nasAAOSwsq1cbLB4/s-l1600.jpg)
and
(https://img.discogs.com/JGVZqXblHfBYu30jsoIew3jig5I=/fit-in/600x606/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7496506-1442693257-5134.jpeg.jpg)
This one arrived finally. I have listened to it once now. It's pretty good and easily worth the money I paid for it (3,57 € delivered). The music is nice, the recorded sound is good (nicely avoid of any harshness) and I think the playing is good too, but then again, I have heard it only once.
I found track [12], the ´Sommeille´ part of Overture in C major very nice. 0:)
[asin]B000038I7S[/asin]
I revisited this Naxos disc:
[asin]B00002759O[/asin]
I was surprised about how enjoyable it is. It is a very old Naxos, but pretty good imo. I feel like I'd like to expand my Telemann collection.
Quote from: Que on September 27, 2020, 03:59:07 AM
Anyway, my two cents... Telemann is generally not the composer of big "deep" emotional gestures and he wrote a lot of music (but not exclusively) that is "easy" on the listener's ear. I think the mood on Telemann, and a lot of other (Baroque) composers, has changed because we gradually moved away from the idea that music has to be emotionally profound and challenging for the listener to be interesting.
And
God be praised for that! Imo this is the one single most deleterious idea with respect to "classical music".
Give me
Telemann over
JS Bach any time of the day or of the night.
Plus:
Quotehe wrote a lot of music (but not exclusively) that is "easy" on the listener's ear.
Haydn, Mozart, Schubert. Nuff said.
My point is, writing first-rate music that is "easy" on the listener's year is a much greater achievement than writing second-rate music that is "emotionally profound" and "challening for the listener".
As
Jules Renard excellently put it: "Art is no excuse for boring people."
Quote from: 71 dB on October 10, 2020, 09:18:25 AM
I revisited this Naxos disc:
[asin]B00002759O[/asin]
I was surprised about how enjoyable it is. It is a very old Naxos, but pretty good imo. I feel like I'd like to expand my Telemann collection.
The
Recorder Suite in A minor has been a favourite work of mine since my teens (i.e. for somE four decades now ;)). Glad you enjoyed it (I don't know that particular recording, though)
Quote from: Florestan on October 10, 2020, 09:32:35 AM
My point is, writing first-rate music that is "easy" on the listener's year is a much greater achievement than writing second-rate music that is "emotionally profound" and "challening for the listener".
I Agree completely. :)
Q
Quote from: Que on October 10, 2020, 11:36:37 AM
I Agree completely. :)
(https://library.kissclipart.com/20181207/ew/kissclipart-beers-emoji-clipart-beer-glasses-emoji-c76a662581b9611c.jpg)
Quote from: ritter on October 10, 2020, 10:02:51 AM
The Recorder Suite in A minor has been a favourite work of mine since my teens (i.e. for somE four decades now ;)). Glad you enjoyed it (I don't know that particular recording, though)
Classical radio in Finland used to play a lot this Naxos disc in late 90's when I got into classical music and I remember liking it, but it took my some 15 years to actually buy the CD in 2013. Telemann has been a really strange composer for me and I don't know what to think about him. Sometimes boring, sometimes exciting and I have always wondered why Naxos has released so many CDs of his music when they have made it clear German Baroque outside Bach is not their thing (just look at the releases of Graupner or Fasch!).
I went through my CDs and made a list of what Telemann I have:
Nach Finsternis und Todesschatten TWV 1:1150 - RONDEAU PRODUCTION - ROP 6059
Ouverture a 4 in C - HYPERION - CDA66074
Kaum ist der Heyland auf der Erden TWV 1:991 - CPO - 777 298-2
Du aber Daniel, gehe hin - SONY CLASSICAL/VIVARTE - 88697225032
Trio Sonata in A Minor - NAXOS 8.550409
Trio Sonata in D Minor - NAXOS 8.550377
Trio Sonata in G Major - NAXOS 8.550377
Trumpet Concerto No. 2 in D major - NAXOS 8.554375
Trumpet Concerto No. 1 in D major - NAXOS 8.553531
Overture (Suite) in G minor TWV 55 g4 - NAXOS 8.554244
Overture (Suite) in C major TWV 55 C6 - NAXOS 8.554244
Overture (Suite) in D major TWV 55 D15 - NAXOS 8.554244
Viola Concerto in G - NAXOS 8.550156
Recorder Suite in A Minor - NAXOS 8.550156
Concerto in F for 3 Violins (from Tafelmusik) - NAXOS 8.550156
Concerto for 2 Horns (from Tafelmusik) - NAXOS 8.550156
Any recommendations for recordings of Telemann's sacred works? I can't get enough of his instrumental ensemble music lately.
Totally not representative because I also have only a handful of discs. The most famous one is probably "Der Tag des Gerichts" (Judgment day) but I don't remember this one well enough. Things also go oop quickly, maybe check for different issues of the same recordings.
[asin]B002WEC75S[/asin]
[asin]B000001WSF[/asin]
Quote from: vers la flamme on October 31, 2020, 08:01:40 PM
Any recommendations for recordings of Telemann's sacred works? I can't get enough of his instrumental ensemble music lately.
Two recordings I consider classics, and have enjoyed for decades (initially on LP, now on CD):
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51GRjlge6aL._AC_.jpg)
Resolutely pre-HIP but glorious performance, and the edition used of this
Saint Mark Passion is not very orthodox from what I've read, but a very beautiful and moving work.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51FAr36dbyL._AC_.jpg)
Der Tag des Gerichts, already mentioned by
Jo498, is a really exciting oratorio IMHO.
New issue:
(https://media1.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0761203541423.jpg)
After our [...] complete recording of Telemann's wind concertos on eight CDs, we are presenting yet another Telemann edition, now with his concertos for mixed ensembles – works from the heart's core of his oeuvre – on six CDs in a box set at a special price. Concerto performances featuring a wide range of instrumental groupings against the background of an accompanying string orchestra evidently stirred his creative imagination most strongly of all and inspired him – as Bach in his Brandenburg Concertos – to invent all sorts of different ensemble types. Here Telemann's oft-cited »mixed style« unfolds in all its bright color: French elegance, Italian brilliance, German erudition, and Polish-Hanakian spirit: we find all of the above in these gems of Late Baroque musical performance that often enough opens the door to Empfindsamkeit and the Sturm und Drang.
amw : thanks for your September 2020 list.
I have a little more than 300 Telemann CDs, mainly instrumental works. I have 8 different complete recordings of Quatuors Parisiens. The one by Bruggen was what first stirred my interest (obsession). These last few years have been very busy for me so the Holloway version in your list slipped my notice. I'm so glad you brought it to my attention. I browsed it a bit on Amazon, & it sounds as good as the Kuijkens' recording. I also never knew that L'Orfeo existed in several configurations one of which has had started a set of Wind Ouvertures.
Quote from: Que on September 27, 2020, 03:59:07 AM
Only in recent years with the growing familiarity and experience with Baroque styles and knowledge how to apply various techniques on improvisation, phrasing, embellishments, etc, Telemann's music has - finally - come to life!
This means that you really need to pick the right performers. Generally "older" recordings are a loss
Q
I agree with your assertions 100 percent. I would single out Telemann the biggest beneficiary of the last phase of the HIP movement and stylishness. He is an anomaly on my favorites list being the fastest gaining composer over the last 10 years.
Quote from: vers la flamme on September 23, 2020, 02:52:50 PM
Telemann's Wassermusik Overture great—you're telling me this is only one of 600 of his works in the genre?! I'll have to track down that Mühler-Brühl recording. Is it on period instruments? I have one Naxos Telemann recording, concertos with Richard Edlinger & the Capella Istropolitana. Not really HIP at all, but I like the sound of the ensemble so it's OK.
As far as I know from the Quebec TWV Catalogue, there are 138 identified Overtures (Suites). I have so far managed to accumulate 93 of them.
Wassermusik is one of my favourites, & I prefer Musica Antiqua Koln's recording of the 10 versions I have.
Another easily available fun favourite is the Alster 55F11 for 4 horns, 2 oboes, 2violins & bass, where Telemann imitates the cries of frogs in the Hamburg marshes (9 versions).
55D6 Suite for Viola da Gamba has been widely recorded (I have 9 versions).
55G10 Burlesque de Quichotte is another piece that's fun to listen to (9 versions also).
55B11 La Bourse was written about the 1720 Stock Market Crash !!!
55a2 Suite for recorder, strings & bass is the most recorded - I have over 20 versions of that.
Does anybody know the TWV catalogue numbers for the pieces in Der getreue Music-Meister ?
I have versions by both Josef Ulsamer & Camerata Koln, but neither of them has catalogue numbers.
Quote from: Chris_Holmes on February 03, 2021, 12:01:33 AM
Does anybody know the TWV catalogue numbers for the pieces in Der getreue Music-Meister ?
These are the numbers as recorded in the Telemann Masterworks box (also Camerata Köln), rather untidily stripped straight from my iTunes library. (The pieces without numbers are by other composers):
Sonata for flute and basso continuo, TWV.41:F2
Emma und Eginhard, TWV.21:25 - Sage mir doch nichts von Liebe
Partita in G, TWV.32:1
Polonaise for flute or violin and basso continuo, TWV.41:D4
Emma und Eginhard, TWV.21:25 - Nimm dein Herz nur wieder an
L'hiver for solo instrument and basso continuo, TWV.41:d1
Etliche contrapunktische Veränderungen des ersten Takts der Telemannischen Sonatinen
Suite for oboe and basso continuo, TWV.41:g4
Sancio, TWV.21:20 - Es glänzet die Unschuld
Sonata in B flat for 2 recorders, TWV.40:107
Sancio, TWV.21:20 - So oft du deinen Schatz wirst küssen
Pastourelle for recorder and basso continuo, TWV.41:D5
Canon mit 14 Verkehrungen, gesetzt von Mr. Zelenka
Capriccio for flute and basso continuo, TWV.41:G5
Das Frauenzimer verstimmt sich immer, TWV.25:37
Sonata for cello and basso continuo, TWV.41:D6
Emma und Eginhard, TWV.21:25 - Vergiß dich selbst, mein schönster Engel
Air for trumpet and basso continuo, TWV.41:C1
Marche pour M. le capitaine Weber und Retraite in F, TWV.35:1
Einige plötzliche Eintritte in entfernte Accords
Suite in D for harpsichord
Sancio, TWV.21:20 - Süsse Worte, werte zeilen
Niaise in E, TWV.41:E2
Suite in D, TWV.40:108 'Gulliver's Travels'
Thema zur Fuge, nebst 5 eingeschickten Auflösungen
Carillon, TWV.40:109
Menuett for 2 horns, TWV.40:110
Duetto, TWV.41:B3
Cher souvenir
Fantasia in D
Pastourelle for recorder and basso continuo, TWV.41:D5
Æsopus bei Hofe, TWV.21:26 - Più del Fiume
Napolitana, TWV.41:B4
Trio-sonata, TWV.42:C1
Sonata for bassoon and basso continuo, TWV.41:f1
Presto
Emma und Eginhard, TWV.21:25 - Ergrimmet nicht, ihr holden Augen
Gigue for violin solo in A minor
Die verkehrte Welt, TWV.21:23 - Glückselig ist, wer alle Morgen
Suite in D
Die verkehrte Welt, TWV.21:23 - Scena
Æsopus bei Hofe, TWV.21:26 - Die Kuh, doch halt!
La poste, TWV.35:2
Sonata for viola da gamba solo in D, TWV.40:1
Calypso, TWV.21:19 - Gedoppelt schön
Trouble-Fête
Canon a 3 in hypodiapente et hyperdiatessaron
Emma und Eginhard, TWV.21:25 - Gesundheits-Brunnen, warme Bäder
Sonata for oboe and basso continuo, TWV.41:A3
Pièce in C for harpsichord
Sonata for violin and basso continuo in F
Canon a 4, BWV.1074
Æsopus bei Hofe, TWV.21:26 - Bum bum bum, faranno i timpani
Ouverture burlesque for harpsichord in D minor, TWV.32:2
Sonata for recorder and basso continuo, TWV.41:C2
Ich kann lachen, weinen, scherzen, TWV.20:15
Canon a 4
Sonata for flute and violin in G, TWV.40:111
Suite in B flat
Säume nicht, geliebte schöne TWV.25:38
3 Themata zu Fugen
Sonata for violin and basso continuo, TWV.41:g5
Sinfonie à la françoise for flute and basso continuo, TWV.41:h2
Emma und Eginhard, TWV.21:25 - Ich folge dir
Sonate for viola da gamba and basso continuo, TWV.41:G6
Bizaria for violin and basso continuo
Belsazar, TWV.25:11 - Daß ich mich dir ergeben sollte
Giga for violin and basso continuo
Thanks so much. You've saved me hours of searching. With the catalogue numbers I can add both box sets to my Telemann by numbers library.
I'm wanted at the traffic jam
They're saving me a seat. Leonard Cohen
During recording I just noticed that the Pastourelle in your list occurs on both CD1 & CD2.
I assume that that's just an iTunes cockup: the part on CD2 should be just labelled as a piece from a contributor, & not a Telemann work, according to the booklet.
___________________________________________________________________
"In the prison of the gifted
I was friendly with the guards" Leonard Cohen
You're very welcome, and thanks for the update. Looking in my big Telemann box, I see that the pieces aren't numbered in there either, so where did I get the numbers from? Did I really look them all up? Who knows. I used to work in music cataloguing at the BBC in the 1980s, so perhaps old habits don't die.
Perhaps I got them from here: https://www.amazon.com/Telemann-Getreue-Music-Meister-complete/dp/B00000E6W0 (https://www.amazon.com/Telemann-Getreue-Music-Meister-complete/dp/B00000E6W0)
Cross posted from the WAYLT thread for future reference:
Quote from: Papy Oli on July 13, 2023, 02:38:57 AMBased on the albums I have streamed so far and really enjoyed, I have a mixed bag of ageing:
- Wind Concertos & String concertos (Musica Antiqua Köln - i haven't tried the various CPO series for mixed instruments)
- Tafelmusik (M.A.K. again and the Freiburger Barockorchester)
- Fantasias for flute (Berthold Kuijken, also Lazarevitch)
- Fantasias for violin (Grumiaux & Guglielmo)
- Paris Quartets (Freiburger again and also the Kuijkens with Leonhardt)
- Trio sonatas & other Scherzi (Parnassi Musici)
- Suite in A minor and Double Concertos (Oberlinger)
Any other artists/ensemble worth a listening to please?
You're right to mention Goebel and his MAK and the Kuijkens as early Telemann pioneers. Already quite the shortlist! :)
Definitely second the recommendation for La Stagione Frankfurt with Schneider for the complete wind concertos and mixed concertos (CPO). Ditto for two disc of chamber music by the Camerata Köln:
Quote from: Iota on July 13, 2023, 10:02:09 AMIndeed. It was the Camerata Köln/La Stagione Frankfurt/Michael Schneider recordings on CPO that first showed me the light (and rather think it was you that first made me aware of them 👍).
Other ensembles/performers:
Epoca Barocca: Trios & Quartets (CPO)
Paolo Pandolfo: Fantasias for viola da Gamba (Glosa)
Münchener Cammer-Music: XII Solos à violon ou traversiere avec la Basse Chiffrée (accompanied flute sonatas) (NCA).
From the perfomers mentioned, Oberlinger and the Ensemble 1700 did a disc with accompanied sonatas and trio sonatas ("Telemann"). The Parnassi musici did a recording of trio sonatas with bassoon with Sergio Azzolini (CPO)
If you like the harpsichord, I'd recommend 36 Fantasias for harpsichord with Andrea Coen (Brilliant).
A totally other side of Telemann is shown in a beautiful selection of opera arias by Nuria Rial with the Kammerorchester Basel (DHM)
Quote from: Que on July 13, 2023, 10:38:26 PMCross posted from the WAYLT thread for future reference:
You're right to mention Goebel and his MAK and the Kuijkens as early Telemann pioneers. Already quite the shortlist! :)
Definitely second the recommendation for La Stagione Frankfurt with Schneider for the complete wind concertos and mixed concertos (CPO). Ditto for two disc of chsmber music by the Camerata Köln:
Other ensembles/performers:
Epoca Barocca: Trios & Quartets (CPO)
Paolo Pandolfo: Fantasias for viola da Gamba (Glosa)
Münchener Cammer-Music: XII Solos à violon ou traversiere avec la Basse Chiffrée (accomponied flute sonatas).
From the perfomers mentioned, Oberlinger and the Ensemble 1700 did a disc with accompied sonatas and trio sonatas ("Telemann"). The Parnassi musici did a recording of trio sonatas with bassoon with Sergio Azzolini (CPO)
If you like the harpsichord, I'd recommend 36 Fantasias for harpsichord with Andrea Coen (Brilliant).
A totally other side of Telemann is shown in a beautiful selection of opera arias by Nuria Rial with the Kammerorchester Basel (DHM)
Thank you for those
@Que , I'll look those additional recs up.
I think you have covered the instrumental music quite well. Try more choral music, such as the Donnerode (Thunder ode) with Max (Capriccio) and the harmonia mundi disc with funeral cantatas; this has also a more recent issue with a plain, mostly white cover (that's the one I have) and some of these cantatas have also been recorded by different ensembles. Not included here, but IIRC there are two Telemann cantatas that used to be ascribed to Bach.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/5152W6NJHRL._SY355_.jpg)
Quote from: Jo498 on July 15, 2023, 08:06:39 AMI think you have covered the instrumental music quite well. Try more choral music, such as the Donnerode (Thunder ode) with Max (Capriccio) and the harmonia mundi disc with funeral cantatas; this has also a more recent issue with a plain, mostly white cover (that's the one I have) and some of these cantatas have also been recorded by different ensembles. Not included here, but IIRC there are two Telemann cantatas that used to be ascribed to Bach.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/5152W6NJHRL._SY355_.jpg)
Apologies
@Jo498 I saw your post on the weekend and forgot to respond. I already have Donnerode queued on Idagio (the Hickox version, which on short sampling of the singing I preferred to Max). I still need to listen to the work as a whole. I did try some of his cantatas on CPO too but was a bit underwhelmed and from memory, one male voice rubbed me the wrong way. I'll seek that HM recommendation of yours. Thank you.
Quote from: Jo498 on July 15, 2023, 08:06:39 AMI think you have covered the instrumental music quite well. Try more choral music [...]
You're right, and I'm planning explore his choral output more. It is just that from the little I have heard sofar, in choral music Telemann's style does not "stand out" as it does in his chamber music... but perhaps I haven't explored enough. Does his choral music have a similar "unique seling point"?
Thanks for the recs. :)
One of the things I was considering, is his "Brockes Passion".. Any thoughts are welcome.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71uMGoLv46L._UF450,450_QL50_.jpg)
Quote from: Que on July 18, 2023, 11:39:13 PMThanks for the recs. :)
One of the things I was considering, is his "Brockes Passion".. Any thoughts are welcome.
I love that work and listen to it a few times a year. I haven't heard the particular recording you've posted though.
Quote from: DavidW on July 19, 2023, 06:35:51 AMI love that work and listen to it a few times a year. I haven't heard the particular recording you've posted though.
I believe the other option - McGegan - has been OOP for years now. There was a short lived reissue on Brilliant, if I remember correctly.
My mind is a little boggled by people who have hundreds of Telemann CDs. In my humble view the beauty of Telemann is you can perform most of this music for yourself. We have a violin / harpsichord book with a bunch of pieces from the interminable Getreue Musik Meister and most often I just play the fiddle part by myself, very enjoyable, no harm done.
The famous Twelve Fantasias (violin or flute) are more ambitious, but still playable, which is the last thing you can say about the Sei Sonata by one JSBach. Perhaps Telemann wasn't pushing the envelope so much.
And, yes, things have gotten much better in Telemann performance compared to the decades people just played Telemann or Vivaldi to make a living.
Is there a living to be made in playing Telemann?
Quote from: Herman on July 20, 2023, 01:24:18 AMMy mind is a little boggled by people who have hundreds of Telemann CDs. In my humble view the beauty of Telemann is you can perform most of this music for yourself.
I'm in neither camp. I stream Telemann, I don't own a single cd. And I can't play any musical instruments. :P
Welcome back Herman!
Quote from: Herman on July 20, 2023, 01:24:18 AMMy mind is a little boggled by people who have hundreds of Telemann CDs. In my humble view the beauty of Telemann is you can perform most of this music for yourself. We have a violin / harpsichord book with a bunch of pieces from the interminable Getreue Musik Meister and most often I just play the fiddle part by myself, very enjoyable, no harm done.
The famous Twelve Fantasias (violin or flute) are more ambitious, but still playable, which is the last thing you can say about the Sei Sonata by one JSBach. Perhaps Telemann wasn't pushing the envelope so much.
And, yes, things have gotten much better in Telemann performance compared to the decades people just played Telemann or Vivaldi to make a living.
I can't play the violin or amy other instrument. Listening to recordings of Telemann music is the next best option for me. ;D
Quote from: vers la flamme on July 20, 2023, 05:12:40 AMIs there a living to be made in playing Telemann?
There was in the 18th century.
Quote from: Herman on July 20, 2023, 01:24:18 AMMy mind is a little boggled by people who have hundreds of Telemann CDs. In my humble view the beauty of Telemann is you can perform most of this music for yourself.
I have a grand total of 1 Telemann CD. It's a very nice Naxos of the Darmstadt Suites, i.e. orchestral suites. Believe it or not, I am not capable of playing orchestral music all by myself. Maybe the listeners of the future will have more than two hands and one mouth, but I don't.
What I meant to say is that some pre-classical composers are not an ideal fit for the LP / CD era in that a lot of their music production was for amateur musicians, meqnt to be performed at home rather than passively listened to at home.
This is why Telemann first, in the Fifties and Sixties, was regarded as mere 'background' music.
Quote from: Herman on July 20, 2023, 10:23:34 PMWhat I meant to say is that some pre-classical composers are not an ideal fit for the LP / CD era in that a lot of their music production was for amateur musicians, meqnt to be performed at home rather than passively listened to at home.
This is why Telemann first, in the Fifties and Sixties, was regarded as mere 'background' music.
I guess he did get a bad rap for his less ambitious output, but Telemann did also wrote interesting music for professional musicians. If you know where to look there is a lot to enjoy.
Quote from: Herman on July 20, 2023, 10:23:34 PMWhat I meant to say is that some pre-classical composers are not an ideal fit for the LP / CD era in that a lot of their music production was for amateur musicians, meqnt to be performed at home rather than passively listened to at home.
This is why Telemann first, in the Fifties and Sixties, was regarded as mere 'background' music.
I don't really know where this is coming from. His major vocal works or his concertos were not scored for 1-2 people to play at home. Telemann wrote some chamber music, but he is not really known for it. And even for his chamber music, while you might have a couple of people performing,
the rest of the family would be passively listening anyway. Telemann's music is written to be listened to, just like any other composer.
Quote from: DavidW on July 21, 2023, 06:44:57 AMTelemann's music is written to be listened to, just like any other composer.
I don't know anything about Telemann so I'm not going to get involved in that particular case, but really I don't see why it's right to assume that all music is designed (by the composer?) principally to be listened to rather than to be performed. Even putting aside improvisation frameworks like Stockhausen's Spiral.
Why should we assume that, for example, that Bach's canons BWV 1087 were intended to be listened to by anyone other than the person playing them?
It's no big deal, but as far as I know most of Bach's solo works (keyboard, violin, cello) were intended as Uebungen, exercizes, for the performer primarily.
Not as public performance pieces.
That's the way JSB's works survived. Performers played pieces from WTC at home, or excerpts from the Suites or Partitas.
Quote from: Herman on July 21, 2023, 10:11:07 AMIt's no big deal, but as far as I know most of Bach's solo works (keyboard, violin, cello) were intended as Uebungen, exercizes, for the performer primarily.
Not as public performance pieces.
That's the way JSB's works survived. Performers played pieces from WTC at home, or excerpts from the Suites or Partitas.
The whole idea of public performance was pretty much a new thing in Bach's time. I remember reading somewhere that the first public concert hall in Europe was built in London sometime around 1680. Before that, music was for church, theater or home.
Still, "playing at home" can mean playing for an audience, at least if your home is big enough for that.
Quote from: Herman on July 20, 2023, 10:23:34 PMWhat I meant to say is that some pre-classical composers are not an ideal fit for the LP / CD era in that a lot of their music production was for amateur musicians, meqnt to be performed at home rather than passively listened to at home.
This is why Telemann first, in the Fifties and Sixties, was regarded as mere 'background' music.
I think it's more that this kind of music wasn't meant to endure.
One of my first thoughts when approaching Telemann was to ponder why he had to write so much music in the first place. While i'm sure he recycled his own works numerious times there's something to be said about the fact audiences back in those days likely never heard the same composition being performed more than a few times.
It seems to me audiences in his time valued freshness over something substantial enough to be able to withstand repeated listening. This doesn't fit with the way we listen to music today.
Quote from: Herman on July 20, 2023, 10:23:34 PMThis is why Telemann first, in the Fifties and Sixties, was regarded as mere 'background' music.
I don't care at all what Telemann was regarded in the Fifties and Sixties. I don't even care what his music is considered today! All I care about is what I think about Telemann
myself.
What do I think? Telemann's music has its own charm and for mere 'background' music it is pretty damn great! That's what I think.
Quote from: Opus131 on July 23, 2023, 01:38:56 PMI think it's more that this kind of music wasn't meant to endure.
One of my first thoughts when approaching Telemann was to ponder why he had to write so much music in the first place. While i'm sure he recycled his own works numerious times there's something to be said about the fact audiences back in those days likely never heard the same composition being performed more than a few times.
It seems to me audiences in his time valued freshness over something substantial enough to be able to withstand repeated listening. This doesn't fit with the way we listen to music today.
This, in spades.
Quote from: 71 dB on July 23, 2023, 11:51:17 PMTelemann's music has its own charm and for mere 'background' music it is pretty damn great!
And this, also in spades.
If you listen to his works for a while it sort becomes obvious a lot of it was improvised, but at the same time it doesn't feel contrived or carelessly put toghether. I think Telemann was one of those composers that just had music popping into their head all the time. From a technical point of view most of his music is actually quite impeccable, whatever it's level of sophistication may have been, so i wouldn't exactly discount his talents as a musician, which must have been notable, even if his aims as an artist were not as high as some of his more famous contemporaries (Bach, Handel etc).
Best way for me to understand this music is to just see it as decorative, as a kind of embelliscement and call back to his age, kinda of like a beautiful pattern on a tapestry, or a decorative mosaic. This also means that no matter how much one would like to rehabilitate his name, his music will never be as significant to us as it was in his own time.