I'd like to buy the collection of Chopin's nocturnes as a gift but I don't have any idea about which performer to choose. Could you please give me any suggestion? (If it's any indication of my taste I do like Gould's Goldberg Variations from 1981)
I would suggest this one (https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Nocturnes-Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric/dp/B0085U0GYW/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1510787019&sr=1-1&keywords=chopin+moravec) or this one, which is equally good or better but may be more expensive (https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Nocturnes-Frederic/dp/B000002RU4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1510786949&sr=8-2&keywords=chopin+tipo).
Second the Moravec
There would be many threads to be found in the Great Recordings and Reviews subforum which you can browse as well.
Chopin Nocturnes (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15721.0.html)
The ONE Chopin Nocturnes Cycle to Rule Them All! (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,23298.0.html)
Chopin Nocturnes in best possible audio quality (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,24787.msg895962.html)
Chopin Recordings (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21.0.html)
I don't know anything about the taste of the person for whom you are purchasing this gift soooo I don't really know what I could recommend (although my favourite pianist for Chopin is Cortot). Do they prefer historical recordings or more modern ones? Historical performance practice or not?
I am afraid I don't know much about her taste either. I think she is pretty emotional (it is an older person and I guess that the DVD by Chopin may have an emotional value for her). As for Moravec, I think he goes a bit too fast (for my taste) at some moments
I'll still rep Maria Tipo then (who is significantly slower, although some people find her too slow!) and Aldo Ciccolini, but he may be even harder to find these days.
Pietro de Maria might fit the bill with the info provided.
(Warner needs to issue a Tipo big box.)
Thank you very much for all the suggestions. What about Maria Joan Pires? I've heard it is a kind of a default choice.
If there is a "standard" choice it might be Arrau or Ashkenazy
[asin]B0000041ND[/asin]
[asin]B0000041L8[/asin]
If you like Gould, perhaps that means objective and unsentimental. Maybe you'd go for Pollini.
[asin]B000B8ISNM[/asin]
Quote from: Daimonion on November 15, 2017, 02:13:31 PM
I am afraid I don't know much about her taste either. I think she is pretty emotional
In that case this is the one to get
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41ARQ6ZNSJL.jpg)
(https://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0000/997/MI0000997210.jpg?partner=allrovi.com)
or
(https://www.melomania.com/var/images/disques/biggest_580864.jpg)
Imho it doesn't get better than these two, all big names past and present included. Both fully available on Youtube, you can sample before deciding.
Arrau it would be for me, had I to pick one.
Moravec is another safe bet I'd say, one more: Maria Joâo Pires on DG.
And I just love Samson François in Chopin, not sure about availability however.
Francois is probably easier to get in a 10-disc-box; unfortunately with very variable sound. I would not recommend it as a first/only recording.
For modern/recent sound: Pires.
Quote from: Jo498 on November 15, 2017, 11:36:52 PM
Francois is probably easier to get in a 10-disc-box; unfortunately with very variable sound. I would not recommend it as a first/only recording.
Agreed, that's why I only mentioned him at the end ... and cheers on Pires! :)
For older ladies ;), I would like to recommend Livia Rév. Her approach is more tender and subtle than many others. Nikita Magaloff also comes to mind; that's an 'oldie' with good analog sound.
I'm not saying that these are my personal favourites, but they might work better for people who want to be moved in a more gentle way, without excessive outbursts.
https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Nocturnes-Livia-Rev/dp/B000007NE6/?tag=goodmusicguideco
https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Nocturnes-Nikita-Magaloff/dp/B00HZ9IBSM/?tag=goodmusicguideco
Another great oldie in decent stereo is of course Rubinstein (not sure if the Nocturnes are easily available separately, I have the big pink box...).
Quote from: Jo498 on November 16, 2017, 12:59:22 AM
Another great oldie in decent stereo is of course Rubinstein [...]
Yeah.
With just one 'simple' question, Daimonion seems to have triggered a 100+ pages thread. ;)
Quote from: Marc on November 16, 2017, 01:46:00 AM
Yeah.
With just one 'simple' question, Daimonion seems to have triggered a 100+ pages thread. ;)
I find it an honour to have done so ;-)
Quote from: Marc on November 16, 2017, 01:46:00 AM
Yeah.
With just one 'simple' question, Daimonion seems to have triggered a 100+ pages thread. ;)
Did you expect otherwise? :laugh:
We already had 4 pages:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,15721.0.html
Maybe the renowned moderator Que can merge them? Then we only have 96 pages to go. ;)
I don't see Maria-Joao Pires as a "default choice". She's a fine pianist and plays the Nocturnes beautifully, and she's well recorded too (though not of the highest audiophile sound quality). I'd say it's one of the best sets of the "digital" era-- along with Halina Czerny-Stefanska and Maria Tipo's, and would make an excellent gift. (Surprisingly, I wasn't altogether a fan of Nelson Freire's set--as I thought he could be too effeminate in certain Nocturnes. Although yes, Engerer & Rev are very good too. As for De Maria, I tend to prefer the Nocturnes of his teacher, Maria Tipo. Anyone heard Nelson Goerner's recent set on Alpha?) Pires' approach to the Nocturnes was influenced by Rubinstein, though I actually prefer her set. If you don't mind spending a little extra money, you might consider buying the Shm-CD import release of her Nocturnes (from Japan), which sound better:
https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Nocturnes-Maria-Joao-Pires/dp/B0053MFJS8/ref=sr_1_6?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1510818535&sr=1-6&keywords=maria+joao+pires+chopin+nocturnes
With that said, my favorite Nocturne sets are those by Claudio Arrau, Samson François, and Ivan Moravec, and of the three, I tend to enjoy Arrau's the most. He's also better recorded than the other two. Although I should warn you that some listeners find Arrau's Nocturnes ponderous. Personally, I think they are profound. Arrau was known to take greater pains in studying scores than most, and his approach reflects his early boyhood training with Liszt's favorite last pupil, Martin Krause. According to pianist Emil von Sauer, Liszt played his own music more slowly and quietly than the big virtuosos of the early 20th century. And that's exactly how Arrau plays these Nocturnes. In Arrau's hands, they actually sound like night music. It's a desert island set in my collection.
If you decide instead to pick François's hauntingly poetic Nocturnes, I'd suggest you buy the latest remasters by French EMI (that is, any of the post-2010 reissues, I guess) that were originally made for the expensive "Complete" (French) EMI box set in 2010, as the older, pre-2010 EMI François releases weren't especially good, sound-wise, and I wouldn't recommend them as a gift. (His Nocturne recordings were made in 1966.)
If you choose Moravec, the most recent remasters of his (originally AAD) set were made by Supraphon:
https://www.amazon.com/Chopin-Nocturnes-Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric/dp/B0085U0GYW/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1510818812&sr=1-1&keywords=Moravec+Chopin+nocturnes
I also like Ashkenazy in the Nocturnes, but he's not everyone's cup of tea. Ashkenazy tends to play the score to the letter, and some listeners find him too literal or not imaginative enough. A composer friend of mine likes his Chopin for precisely that reason--that Ashkenazy is ultra attentive to the score. As for myself, I value Ashkenazy's Chopin, and find it a refreshing alternative to the endless liberties taken by some of the older pianists. At his best I find Ashkenazy to be more poetic and sensitive than Pollini. (Btw, Ashkenazy's set is a mixture of analogue and digital recordings, as he didn't initially record the music in one session.)
As mentioned, Maria Tipo is also wonderful in the Nocturnes (on EMI), though I'd be a little hesitant to recommend her set as a first choice--as it is very romantic playing, and she can be quite slow (although her approach certainly works for me). The late Polish pianist, Halina-Czerny Stefanska also recorded a very fine set of Nocturnes in the late 1980s (for RCA Japan), and it's another one of my top favorites, but unfortunately, it's OOP & hard to find these days.
Hope that helps.
P.S. I didn't know that Thierry de Brunhoff had recorded a set of Nocturnes. Thanks for that info, Florestan. Yes, I expect his set would be wonderful. Brunhoff was a student of Cortot's and I think he'd be much better known today if he hadn't chosen to become a monk in his early prime (as a pianist). His father, if memory serves, gave the world "Babar the Elephant". Interesting family.
A special 'hello' to Mandryka! I was "MRS" at Amazon, but have changed my name (for reasons that will be obvious to you).
Go buy any and all Maryla Jonas resissues you can find. Or, if you're cool like me, get the original LPs! 8) In big, scary, glorious MONO!
I totally agree. Maryla Jonas is one of my favorite Chopin pianists, especially in the Mazurkas and the 7 Nocturnes (etc.) that she was able to record before her untimely death. In case anyone doesn't know, her complete recordings have been superbly remastered and released in a Sony "original jackets" box set. Grab them while you can:
[asin]B072KY1H9B[/asin]
I adore the Nocturnes and have been listening to them even more lately, as I need to cull some of my Nocturne sets. I have decided to let go of Abbey Simon's set, who is perfectly fine, but does not add anything that I don't feel I have in my other sets. I've also decided to let go of Pires's set, as I am not fond of the glassy sound and the dramatic, concertized way she plays them. That was a tough decision, as her way with them is certainly unique. I don't plan to get rid of her set right away, I'll keep it in case I change my mind.
Other Sets I have:
Smeterlin
Ciani
Moravec
Weissenberg
Wasowski
Tipo
Ciccolini
Rubinstein (x3)
Francois
Arrau
Ashkenase
Has anyone heard Kun-Woo Paik?
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81lewVDl9OL._SS500_.jpg)
It seems to be download/streaming only.
Quote from: Daverz on November 07, 2019, 06:45:09 PM
Has anyone heard Kun-Woo Paik?
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81lewVDl9OL._SS500_.jpg)
It seems to be download/streaming only.
If it's on Spotify (is it?) I will gladly check it out tomorrow at work.
Well, of course Todd has heard it: https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,26952.msg1222127.html#msg1222127 (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,26952.msg1222127.html#msg1222127)
Quote from: Daverz on November 07, 2019, 06:45:09 PM
Has anyone heard Kun-Woo Paik?
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81lewVDl9OL._SS500_.jpg)
It seems to be download/streaming only.
Cool video here with the pianist talking about recording the Nocturnes:
https://www.facebook.com/deutschegrammophon/videos/kun-woo-paik-chopin-the-complete-nocturnes/673179079767816/
Pires is a great choice
As is Rubinstein
If I could have only one set, I'd pick Rubinstein's 60's version, with no regrets.
If I can have three, probably Rubinstein, Arrau, and Moravec, though I reserve the right to change my mind for no good reason....
I've also really enjoyed Pollini recently, though it 's not a top pick for me as yet....
Quote from: Daverz on November 07, 2019, 06:45:09 PM
Has anyone heard Kun-Woo Paik?
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81lewVDl9OL._SS500_.jpg)
It seems to be download/streaming only.
It's very very good.
Quote from: Mandryka on November 08, 2019, 10:26:02 AM
It's very very good.
Agreed. I listened to some of it today.
Also listening now to Ciccolini's set on Cascavelle. It is even more gorgeous than I had remembered.
Rubinstein (60s)
Moravec
Askenase
cross-post from the WAYL2N thread
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81lewVDl9OL._SS500_.jpg)
CD1
Several people whose opinions I value have praised this so my expectations were high. Unfortunately, they were not met in the least.
I couldn't disagree more with Todd's enthusiastic review: https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,26952.msg1222127.html#msg1222127 (https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,26952.msg1222127.html#msg1222127)
Plodding to, and often beyond, the limit of disintegration. I'm sorry but I can think of no other way to put it. I'm not in principle opposed to slowness (as in Barenboim's way with Schiubert's sonatas, for instance) but Mr. Paik takes it to insane levels. And the problem is compounded by the fact that, for all this exaggerated slowness, the effect, far from being light and ethereal, it's heavy and earthbound. Boredom set in after just the first three Nocturnes (at Paik's tempos this means actually about half an hour --- okay, I'm exaggerating but not too much) and eventually I stopped listening somewhere half-way through the disc. Listening to CD2 is not even an option.
Possibly the worst performance of the Nocturnes I've ever heard.
Sorry, Todd, Mandryka, George.
For complete sets, Huangci, Amoyel, or Yokoyama (Sony) are my top choices. For incomplete sets, and for something even slower and more distended than the extremely fine Paik, Michel Block is something else. I suspect it could elicit a love it or hate it response.
Quote from: Todd on November 09, 2019, 07:07:08 AM
For complete sets, Huangci, Amoyel, or Yokoyama (Sony) are my top choices. For incomplete sets, and for something even slower and more distended than the extremely fine Paik, Michel Block is something else. I suspect it could elicit a love it or hate it response.
I wholeheartedly second Huangci.
For incomplete sets I wholeheartedly recommend this
(https://s12emagst.akamaized.net/products/10745/10744019/images/res_1390dbdfd52f0755cd2d389861323138_full.jpg)
if you can put up with Say's obsessive-compulsive moaning&groaning.
Quote from: Florestan on November 09, 2019, 07:10:24 AM
For incomplete sets I wholeheartedly recommend this
(https://s12emagst.akamaized.net/products/10745/10744019/images/res_1390dbdfd52f0755cd2d389861323138_full.jpg)
if you can put up with Say's obsessive-compulsive moaning&groaning.
Oh my, I forgot that. I am terribly embarrassed. A superb disc. Pity Say didn't record them all.
Quote from: Todd on November 09, 2019, 07:23:48 AM
A superb disc. Pity Say didn't record them all.
Agreed.
I just sampled Say's and Huangci's Nocturnes and was surprised to find I didn't like Say's nearly as much as Huangci's. (Surprised because I generally like Say's recordings.)
Will keep listening to Huangci and decide if I want to buy it. Is her set in one of those slim, 2CD cases?
And as for Paik's set, I gave it a full listen at home and found that, in a way, I agree with Todd/Mandryka and Florestan. At times the slower tempos really work for him, but when they fail him, like in Op. 15/1, they really fail badly. I miss the forward momentum found by many other pianists. But elsewhere his slower tempos add to the dreamy, introspective nature of the music.
Quote from: George on November 09, 2019, 08:06:25 AMWill keep listening to Huangci and decide if I want to buy it. Is her set in one of those slim, 2CD cases?
I went the discount, high res download route. Almost no one issues fat box two CD sets anymore.
Listened to the Paik to hear what had polarised opinion. At first the slower tempos seemed to work but after four nocturnes and the disaster of Op 15/1 the sameness of the approach just got boring. Chopin's music has a natural ebb and flow to it that was sadly missing here. This was just syrupy and cloying.
I'm going to give Nelson Goerner a try next time I'm in the mood to hear the Nocturnes. Has anyone heard it? Nice work by the graphic artist matching the color of the background to his eyes :laugh:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71k%2Bdjm6YML._SL500_.jpg)
(As for my favorites- Arrau, Maria Tipo, Andrzej Wasowski)
I listened to Goerner- his playing isn't crystal clear in that he uses a decent amount of pedal to create more of a painted dreamscape. This leads to an overall rich sonority with not the most distinct tonal colors. Any rubato he uses feels unforced and quite natural. He also plays with great dynamic range, but it's restrained and only brought out when called for. Natural is the word I keep coming back to thinking of this as a whole. A highly interesting set, and an easy purchase quickly ordered from Amazon. It has that X factor where after it's finished I'm thinking about playing it again.
Based off what I've heard on this I'm lead to believe his Debussy should be worth checking out.
(removed thoughts Kun Woo Paik, I just need to listen to this more before judging it)
I don't think this one has been mentioned:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51YwcEl8NVL.jpg)
Roger Woodward.
Very good playing and excellent sound.
Exceptional performances from Pascal Amoyel, I believe these will be entering my top tier list. Some pedal noise is noticeable, which is really my only complaint.
(https://i.imgur.com/N9EDfS0.jpg)
Arrau remains my favorite set
Other favorites include Moravec (Nonesuch mastering), Wasowski and Ciccolini
I like Smeterlin (Eloquence mastering) and Weissenberg
I kinda like Freire and Tipo
I have heard these, but I don't like them - Simon, Wild, Askenase, Amoyel, Rubinstein (stereo), Francois, Ciani
Quote from: George on December 04, 2020, 01:04:10 PM
Arrau remains my favorite set
Other favorites include Moravec (Nonesuch mastering), Wasowski and Ciccolini
I like Smeterlin (Eloquence mastering) and Weissenberg
I kinda like Freire and Tipo
I have heard these, but I don't like them - Simon, Wild, Askenase, Amoyel, Rubinstein (stereo), Francois, Ciani
Don't know Arrau's but ++++ for the Morvac! :D ;D
PD
Quote from: Josquin13 on November 16, 2017, 08:48:01 AM
I also like Ashkenazy in the Nocturnes, but he's not everyone's cup of tea. Ashkenazy tends to play the score to the letter, and some listeners find him too literal or not imaginative enough. A composer friend of mine likes his Chopin for precisely that reason--that Ashkenazy is ultra attentive to the score. As for myself, I value Ashkenazy's Chopin, and find it a refreshing alternative to the endless liberties taken by some of the older pianists. At his best I find Ashkenazy to be more poetic and sensitive than Pollini. (Btw, Ashkenazy's set is a mixture of analogue and digital recordings, as he didn't initially record the music in one session.)
After listening to Ashkenazy's Nocturnes a few times over the last few weeks, I wanted to open up a discussion about them and how other folks find them.
I know that Josquin reports that he stays close to the score, but his dynamics are more extreme than most. I have to wonder, are that many people reinterpreting the dynamics? Many of Ashkenazy's Nocturne recorings have to be turned up quite loud to get a full piano tone in the beginning, when the music is quiet and by the time we get to some of the climaxes, the volume is loud and bangy. I also found something similar in his Beethoven.
At any rate, I am curious to hear what others think on this. In Ashkenazy's hands, the Noctunres sound more like Ballades. And one other point, his rubato often doesn't make sense, its hard to follow. Almost like he doesn't know the works well enough.
Re Ashkenazy's rubato in those nocturnes, I have a suggestion. He plays them like Frank Sinatra sings.
What do folks think of this guy's Nocturnes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPmZorRo2vQ